Right now, as I type this, there are millions of women out there who have ‘settled’ in a poor or so-so relationship. Many of these love assclowns or emotionally unavailable men and have dug their feet in for the long haul because they believe that they love him, so things will change, or he must change. Even worse, he may continue to minimise his input into the relationship, so she will step up her input, rewarding his 10% effort with a spurt of giving, and pleasing, and willing him to recognise her greatness.
In recent posts such as Shades of Grey – Rationalising your involvement in a poor relationship and Why do we throw ourselves at bad relationships and then wonder why it hurts, I discuss the whole betting on potential, fantasising, and in essence being so optimistic it’s beyond scary.
But the eternal optimism of Fallback Girls and assclown lovers actually masks FEAR.
The denial masks fear too.
But because many of us don’t want to deal with our fears, we chalk it up to being ‘compassionate’, to loving him, to seeing the best in people, to being kind, to being wonderful women who have been dealt a bad card.
The thing is, are you happy living like this?
Are you happy being marginalised by a Mr Unavailable or an assclown?
Does the fact that you keep getting the same results from the same efforts not mean that you need to opt out and do something different?
The fear of being alone, of being wrong about your instincts, and your judgement. The fear that the next woman will suddenly turn him from assclown to prince. The fear that even though he hasn’t left his wife for the last ten years you’ve been with him, he might just do it once you’ve ended it. The fear of confronting your own issues instead of hiding behind his.
Does life work out better because you’re optimistic about a poor relationship?
Or do you end up realising that if you going to cater to fear, you’re going to have to suck it up and settle?
Or do you finally hit the ‘enough’ moment and take a chance on yourself in spite of those fears?
Because you see, the things that we’re afraid of that paralyse us in crappy relationships where we lament his misdoing’s and blame ourselves for him not being different, all end up being far less than the misery of catering to fear.
Unless you really love misery and really just don’t ever want to like and love yourself and want a better positive relationship, you will wake up one day and wonder what the frick you were scared of!
Often, even when we’ve been around a man for years, we’ve been lonely as hell.
You can only be responsible for you. His actions are independent of yours. You didn’t make him into an assclown – he is one, but by sticking around, massaging his ego, breaking him off a piece of sex, and essentially making yourself a sacrificial lamb doormat, you are enabling his behaviour.
Misery does indeed love company and self misery in the form of self hate and blame just LOVES an assclown.
You have no right to demand or expect change from someone just because you deem yourself to be in love with them. The fact that you love an assclown or a habitually emotionally unavailable man suggests the basis of your feelings for him are borne out of negativity.
You can’t force your love on someone or literally down their throat – is that what you want? To make someone love you?
Having ‘feelings’ for someone or having a desperate urge to have them in your lives doesn’t give you an instant IOU to claim on! Loving someone doesn’t make them love you. Really, if you don’t both have both of your feet in the relationship, you’re doing all the loving for the two of you. That’s really exhausting!
And believe me – if he was ‘the one’, if things were so amazing, if you were genuinely happy and not trying to fit a square peg into a round hole, you wouldn’t need so many changes to occur for this to ‘work’ for you.
So if you look at your optimism about your involvement with him, for example, hoping he’s going to come back to you, even though he’s now shacking up with some other woman, or your denial where you tell yourself that that he’s going to change even though he’s been the same for the majority of the relationship; it becomes very clear that you’re afraid.
The relationship has left the building…you’re just sitting there pining at the window….
If you’re stuck in a poor relationship with a Mr Unavailable or an assclown, ask yourself what would happen if you stopped expecting, stopped hoping for change, and stopped fantasising?
Would he change? No. Would you be any happier? Unlikely.
What this says is that at the end of the day, if you apply optimism to poor relationships with no foundation, and a load of denial, the outcome is still going to be the same, it’s just going to be even more painful because you take a long-winded, self-mutilating route to get there when you could get off the path a lot sooner and take the chance on you and feel the fear that will invariably turn out to be less than what you expected.
Pain is not love.
If you’re in limbo and you keep engaging, and refuse to let go even when he continues his life elsewhere – that’s not him causing you pain – that’s YOU!
I know someone out there will go – but what will I do?
You know what makes you happy and it’s certainly not him and if you don’t know you need to find out so that you start living a life you enjoy instead of filling it up with assclownary.
Take responsibility and be accountable for your own life. Make decisions instead of being trapped in indecision and placing the onus on him to change and magically become the man you want. Do something. Cut contact, opt out, stop engaging – just do something and cold turkey it because the initial pain does pass. But you are the solution to your own problem – not him.
Your thoughts?
Add to favorites
When The Clown started to act up, I knew what I had to do but I was really sad that it wasn’t working out. After it became clear that he was who he was – a clown, I cut that relationship loose and I am sooooo glad that I did!
I feel much better now, though I have days when I think about how he treated me and feel badly. I was with him, but he wasn’t with me. I felt lonley although I was in a realtionship . Then it occurred to me that instead of enriching my life, he was hindering it, so he had to go! Although it is the smart thing to do, it still hurts. I’m at the stage where I feel super one day and like crap the others. But the sunshine days are outnumbering the bad days since I cut him loose.
*Yippee*
OMG~ I cannot believe how necessary this article was….
I can’t even point out all the important points (to me) because I’d have to repeat every word you just said =)
The wonderful part is that I’m finally getting it. I think I’ve always suspected all the stuff you said but never really “got it”. Thank God I found this blog
I haven’t posted before but have been reading this site since the night I decided to cut the cord. He had already been detaching for awhile but there was always something that we had planned on the horizon and I suppose I used that excuse to stay involved.
I knew from the very first that he was wrong for me but I think it was loneliness that kept my momentum going. Not quite sure what kept his going.
Now, nearly a month later, I know it is for the best for me, for my sanity and that I should move on. But, as you say Cynnie, I still have up and down days. And I fully realize that I am causing my own pain!! He’s out and about looking for other victims to encourage into his Cult – I believe there is already one Cult Queen that has been recruited.
But alas, as I said after my divorce, I now have a second chance to have a really happy life – and then I added this assclown into my life. Anyway – there are moments of relief that I don’t have to deal with his antics in public (and private) any more. Those times were pretty sordid and I’m happy to see the back of them…….
I am starting the first week of NYears to go into therapy.
“The fear of confronting your own issues instead of hiding behind his…” NML, this statement really hit home with me. In my list of fears about relationships, this is a big one. I always thought that I was this completely emotionally available person who just kept picking the wrong men to love, but what I have figured out, like a lot of us on this site, I am an EUW…and I think it has a lot to do with abandonment issues, and having an EUM for a father. This site has been such a wonderful resource for me in my efforts to heal and move on with my life, and I am amazed at the courage and openness you all have to share your stories. They have helped me tremendously. I wish you all a happy holiday season! 🙂
“Often, even when we’ve been around a man for years, we’ve been lonely as hell.”
That’s the one line that really hit me like a ton of bricks. I think this article was written especially for me. I went through this for three years with my current ex-EUM. I was still lonely as hell overworking in a relationship going no where fast. I’m finally relieved to tell everyone that I found a new place and I have all of my stuff out by the end of the month! So then my ex-EUM can start his dating again now that I’ll be gone and I can finally heal and get myself together.
Do these men treat women in this manner b/c of their self-esteem issues? Is it not true, if you don’t respect yourself, you don’t treat others with respect?
Spot on article. Thank you NML.
Like metsgurl, for a long time these articles were like a bell ringing somewhere in the back of my head, but I couldn’t quite accept them.
Now I’ve stepped back from my limbo-filled relationship over the past few weeks, every point NML makes is loud and clear. !
I know in my own case, I was definitely operating out of a fear of being alone. It’s a scary thing to think that your self esteem is so low that the thought of spending your life with you has that kind of effect. Yikes! It feels so much better to actually like hanging out with you!
As for the question you asked, what will I do? You’ll heal, you’ll grow, you might even be happy. Sounds like a hella better alternative to me! 😀
Wow! I’m going to have to print this out and take it with me everywhere I go. I need to read this like a 12 step program as I find myself saying the wrong things at the wrong time and being the one to blame for everything but what this blog did for me was realizing that even if all the nagging on my part ended, even if I was cool calm and relaxed the way my baby daddy always wants me to be, things would still be the same. There would be more peace, granted, but there would not necessarily be more love or more affection or more listening. The truth is that applying optimism to something with no foundation is simply senseless. I’ve been senseless for too long, I’ve been trying to salvage something that never really existed. I’ve long believed his promises that never come true and I’ve been willing to take the miserable crumbs he hands my way once in a while. I do love him, or at least his potential and he’s not a bad guy but he has gone so far as to move far away and only returns once a month or so with not much communication in between.
I can’t say I’m any lonelier now that he’s living away, in fact, I think it’s much better to be on my own but I still fool myself that there’s some real future here. Unfortunately, going cold turkey is not a possibility as we have a daughter together and he still pays for most of the things around here and that’s what enslaves me but I’m looking for alternatives in order to free him from me more and that way he can start resenting me less… Oh that’s right! He’s always going to find something to resent of me.
I think I’ll play the lottery!
It was only when I realized that it WAS up to me to end the pain / change – and not him, that I became free.
I wouldn’t want him now. I see him for who he is based on his actions alone, rather than through the veil of loneliness, denial, hope and fantasy…
Why don’t therapists tell you this stuff? When I was in marriage counseling 8 years ago, I kept trying to get this stuff out in the sessions and the therapist had no clue as to what I was talking about most of the time regarding my now ex and how he treated me. She just kept saying “he’s a good man, with a good heart”. She should have been saying this guy is an assclown cut the cord now and get on with your life.
She just kept taking our money and trying to pursuade me to give him another chance. Whenever I walked out of there I felt like she did not hear one thing I said, and that the problems were my fault not his because I had an affair early on in our marriage which he didn’t know about until counseling.
Looking back how many red flags did I need anyway? The good thing is I kept working on myself and trying to figure out why I was still so unhappy, unfilled and feeling lonely. I kept searching which is how I found this site. And thank goodness I did, none of my girlfriends understand this stuff. I’m now with others on this site who can relate.
I just am left breathless by this post. It’s so true. Why I stayed for so long, and settled for so little; why I made excuses. What do I fear? Being alone? After spending a total of 7 years with two Mr. Unavailables, I decided to NOT date until I dealt with whatever issues that lead to seven years of misery. What have I learned? That I can be happy ALONE!!! That wanting a loving healthy relationship is just fine, but NEEDING a relationship for my happiness is NOT! I am learning to love myself (by dealing with past hurts, and forgiving those who hurt me), and I’ve learned that I indeed can be happy and fulfilled without a significant other. If it happens, then wonderful. If not, I can still smile, AND MEAN IT!
Thank you, NML!
Hello everyone,
I really need some help, as I am unsure whether I am with an EUM or a man who is not ready for a relationship after separation (divorce soon) from his wife of four years. We met online for about one and a half years ago and really hit it off by mail. I went to see him and it all worked out well, he seemed very interested in me, was very loving and we fell in love. (We’re having a long distance relationship currently and have had throughout). We planned then (very prematurely I admit) to move in together in his house, and he was the driving force behind this. I questioned it, as I figured it’d be too soon after him ‘getting his life back’, as he put it. Then the second time I visited he took it back, told me that I was right, after all it was too early for him to take steps to live with someone full time. (He had separated in February and I visited first time in August). I could understand this, and didn’t question it so much even though he had changed and was more distant and less attentive than in August.
Now he claims that ne hever loved his ex wife, that they married on the spur of the moment for he to stay in the country, and got stuck in the marriage because she simply didn’t want to leave. In his country the laws are such that as a married man they favour the woman and he had paid for his house, so had to wait until she found a suitable home (she didn’t want to rent a flat). He just couldn’t throw her and her out even though she and her two daughters had taken over his home and he had been made a stranger in his own home. (His own words). Before marrying he had lived almost all of his adult life as a bachelor, and also had bad experiences from his own family … his father died when he was eight, and his mother then quickly found a new man and then ignored him and his emotional needs. He seems to loathe the concept of cheating … he has been cheated on in the past and said he has never done that to anybody.
I must say he’s been very loving throughout this long distance relationship, escept for that episode the second time I visited. He has never ‘disappeared’, always writes, doesn’t ring much these days but that is mainly to do with his finances. He does ring when I ask him to, and always when he says he would. He doesn’t strike me as the unfaithful kind at all, and I do trust him that way even through the distance. Maybe I’m a fool, but when he says he’s never cheated on anyone, I do believe him – right or wrong.
When I’m with him he takes good care of me, cooks, makes sure I am ok and always cares about how I feel. Buys me presents, and does little caring things for me. He is a bit self absorbed sometimes but I always put that down to all those years he’d been living alone .. He does so much for me anyway, paid for almost all my plane fares to see him and always asks how I am … yes he does seem to really care for me. His actions definately tells me that he loves me.
What do you think about all this? There are times when I feel he is emotionally distant, but I am not sure whether this has to do with the nature of mostly sharing mails and sms’ as they can be tricky to interpret. I am not the most secure person emotionally speaking, my father died when I was very young too, so we share that and so many othetr things on an emotional level.
What really hurts me more than anything, and he’s been honest about this, is that he is not sure if he’ll ever will be able to live with anyone full time ever again. After his traumatic four years with his ex. he seems quite badly burnt and he admits to this as well. He’s seen so much negativity in relationships in his life, everything from his mothers’ to his own past ones. He tells me I’m the love of his life but is still unsure as to whether he will be able to commit to me and us, with regards to living together. This makes me feel that perhaps there’s no future for us, and that waiting would be futile on my part? I have toyed with the idea of leaving many times because of this, and we have discussed breaking up too, but we just can’t seem to do it. If I am not totally mistaken our love seems too strong … well we can’t seem to break free for whatever reason.
I have thought of perhaps move to where he lives, but I worry I’d feel really lost and alone as I’d have to rent a place then and not live with him. I feel rejected actually that he feels he can’t live with someone … but maybe I’m just too hasty, maybe he does need more time to heal? In any case am not moving there in a hurry though, as I need to see where this relationship goes first.
I’d be very grateful for any comments or help on this …
Gabriella
I think you need to listen to his words. He has already admitted that “he can’t live with someone,” if you want to a normal healthy relationship then you should move on.
Sorry, but I think you’re wasting your time on this one.
One last thing.
if you move to his area, he will see this as a desperate move on your part and will retreat even further. Hon, find a guy that’s not damaged but knows what he wants.
Need some advice from my sisters and brothers here. I noticed that I put myself down alot now that I am out of an EU relationship and this is especially around married couples. I say things like “yea, I dance in my bedroom and have a party for one” or “because I am alone….” or “Since I am alone…….” I am thought more highly of when I was married or had a BF by my family. Now I am basically ignored. Would I rather be in an EU relationship and suffer to be included? I don’t know but it hurts.
Gabriella,
It sounds like this man is somewhat full of BS. Even if what he is saying is true, he’s keeping you dangling on a string while he decides if he can take the relationship further…you should move on…you need a partner who is ready for a relationship…a relationship takes time to build and grow, but with a damaged partner, it never grows…you will give up too much. Besides, it’s easy for him to feed you any kind of line of BS…you are so far away from him…and most of your communication is over the computer…he could be living with someone else, have a few gals on the side or a girlfriend and you are just his ego stroke and fallback girl…think about it…if you thought the relationship was going along just fine, you wouldn’t have found this site…trust your gut..it doesn’t lie. We’ve all been through it and we know how you feel…GOOD LUCK
Isabella,
I would rather remain alone than stay in a relationship with an EUM. Why don’t you make an effort to meet new people? This kind of thinking that a man completes us is very disturbing, remember, we complete ourselves!
Hello all,
Thanks girls for the support, I really appreciate it.
Well, I rang him last night and suggested we’d continue as friends, hard as it was. He seemed fine about it, although taken aback. I still love him so very much, and I just can’t believe where I got the strength to do this … perhaps reading your stories here has helped me to finally pluck up the courage to do this. And also .. trying to remember everytime he’ds hurt me … too many to remember really.
I’ve had an awful day though .. withdrawal symptoms, crying …I managed to take a walk but it was just about that I managed it. Truly terrible to be emotionally committed to (what probably is?) an EUM. This is the most painful relationship I’ve ever had by far.
Thanks again … no doubt I’ll be back on these boards.
Gabriella
Does that mean you’re still in contact with this guy??? Honey, you can’t be friends with someone you care for or you will be right back to where you started.
Can I ask a question that I hope is related to this?
I have never been on Facebook before and don’t really get the rules or the etiquette behind it. Anyway, last night I was obsessing about my EUM and looked to see if HE had one. He did and on it was a little photo gallery of his friends. I was nowhere on it, after 8 years of “friendship”-3 platonic, 5 with benefits.
I was so hurt and steamed that I emailed him (we rarely communicate by phone) and told him that I was astonished I was conspicuously absent, after all we had been through and all the support I’d given him, as well as the kinky sex that he was too guilt ridden to ask for from anyone else.
Now I feel like a dumbass. I read this site a lot and know what I need to do but I need an arse-kicking anyway. I really feel that this is the final nail in the coffin (though that should have been hammered in YEARS ago!) and that I’m the kind of person who needs to get feelings out. It’s like If you hurt me I want you to know why.
I was not dramatic or emotional in the email, just more like telling him how incredible I felt it was that he hadn’t respected or valued me enough to include me. Some of the photos of people were those who he’d admitted he’d discarded and some were of his SISTERS friends and one was of a friend who is now dating his EX, who was a total drama queen. So you know he’ll be linking up to her, as part of his Narcissistic Harem!
I since conferred with friends who know more about Facebook and they say the photos are not an indicator of real friends, as others post theirs. So now I feel like even more of an eejit, because I shoulda left it alone and just not expected to hear from him. I feel I went the teeenage route and pouted.
Yet in some ways, this was my goodbye to him (I didn’t say that to him) and it feels liberating. Like I said my piece, let him know that I finally understand and admit to myself how low I am, down on his list and that he only calls me as the Sure Thing when he wants his needs met.
Ugh-I’m confused! If I did the totally wrong thing, can someone help me the next steps I need to take to forgive myself?
Thanks!
Hi Blackgnat I will attempt to answer you …I know nothing about facebook though..
I have looked at the process of getting rid of an EUM as a journey.. some people can read something or hear something about an EUM and they get rid of him straight away and start to look at themselves and why they were with such a guy in the first place.. Other women take things more slowly and it takes a while for them to finally be rid of an EUM.. mainly because its so difficult to realise you deserve better and their is something in an EUM that keeps you involved but its always looking at his behaviour and treatment of you rather than looking at your own and why you (me) put up with it…
I would say don’t be hard on yourself its a journey and you are slowly waking up to how you don’t want to be treated anymore believe me many posts on here are about silly things we have gone and done, I think though there is still emotional investment from you in your EUM and again I say it all takes time and awareness to change yourself so things like photos on facebook don’t matter anymore.
I wish you all the best on your journey to being EUM free and working on yourself because you deserve better than what he offers.
Keep reading this web site I think many lightbulbs will go on ..
Thank you so much, Tulipa! I have been on this road for so long and I really truly feel that I’m getting off it-the Thrill is Gone, so I know I am keeping the drama alive by doing stuff like reaming him a new one for the Facebook thing.
Someone also said that Facebook friends are not necessarily real life friends. So yet again,I was a complete drama queen, UGH. I hate it when I make myself the a-hole and he gets to sit there and most likely shake his head in pity at my instability.
I’m MOST frustrated because of the fact that he went on vacation and I KNEW in my bones that it was the perfect point to stop contact-that I would not be able to contact him while he was gone and that I truly, with my emerging feelings of not caring so much, would be able to maintain a dignified level of maturity. Something happens to me-like, I feel I no longer am infatuated, so I remember the nice things about him and think, “Hell, why not get in touch and see how he’s doing?” and then it starts all over again,
But it’s ME who is the key. ME who keeps it going. How sick!
Thanks for your explanation-it’s very kind and compassionate and makes a lot of sense. But it’s been EIGHT years by now!
Should I email him and apologise for over-reacting? Or just completely leave it alone and let him think what he likes?
Black Gnat,
Please do not contact this guy, you’ve got to move on it’s been eight-years now. You’ve got to stop finding excuses to contact this man.
Honestly, what do you think he thinks when you continue to contact him? You’re holding on to something that doesn’t exist.
If you want to recover you must break contact. FOREVER!!!!
Gaynor, you are so right! It’s beyond humiliating and for the life of me I cannot understand why I continue to do this.
I have never thought of myself as a person with low self esteem, but I swear I have let this man treat me like a piece of sh*t. I first met him when my marriage was in trouble (I am now divorced, just this past July) and I think that I keep subconciously attempting to return to that place when I had overhwelming feelings of being desired . After years of neglect, I soaked it up like a sponge.
I think I needa complete lifestyle change. I work in education, where there are only women and children and most of my wonderfully supportive friends are married and really don’t have an interest in doing what I like to do. I also have 2 sons who are high school dropouts (one has been diagnosed with bipolar disease and has terrible rages and drug addictions) who live with me.
I think I have sometimes returned to my EUM because when he’s receptive, he’s completely delightful company-attractive, intelligent etc. and for those few hours, I escape my reality.
But you’re right, I’m holding on to something that doesn’t exist.It makes me so sad. Why won’t it sink in?
Black Gnat,
Ditto as to what everyone says here, DO NOT contact him, isn’t giving up 8 years of your life enough, have you dated anyone else? Also, as NML says (I do recommend reading her book and often) he will test you, will not believe that you are done or over it because you were the one who generally initiated the contact and that you’ll initiate it again. Contact is Contact (check out the blog on this).
Sit on your hands, call some friends, post on here you will find the support and move on to someone who isn’t going to throw you crumbs, I understand how hard this is to do, I have experienced it and am experiencing it, although over my last EUM, he was the Epiphamy relationship NML talks about. I remember 2 weeks ago in the first week of NC and I received a text and thought I was going into a tailspin, I can’t believe I even wasted my time tailspinning over a text message, that virtually said nothing!
As far as facebook, I am on there, one of the reasons I started my disconnect with my latest EUM and last EUM. I deleted him from my friends list. I didn’t want to be exposed to what was being said on there or who he was interacting with, it was embarassing to me as a woman what was being posted to him by other women, a BIG red flag. It is in your face thus Facebook! Facebook is a good way to network with people that are in your life, old friends, family or Groups that you are interested in but can be abused by a narcissitic EUM. What a great source of supply!!!
Everyone on here has been or was in your position, you are not alone….Gail
P.S. Meant to say or “is in your position!” ….Gail
I have only had a couple of dates with a guy who was great fun, quite attractive and separated from his wife (though her voice was on the answering machine at home-hmmm, first red flag) though I quickly realised that he wasn’t really in it. And neither was I.
I definitely have issues and think I’m an EUW. I can’t imagine being in a relationship with anyone else ever again and I am an attractive intelligent woman. My guard and cynicism are way, way up. SO at times, this ambivalence has totally suited me, though this EUM is the infatuation of my life. Within 5 minutes of meeting him I knew I was in big trouble.
We have been off and on for the eight years, the first 3 not so much, because the sexual attraction had not been realised in a physical form.
The longest we have been out of contact is 10 months after he betrayed and demoralised me in the most blistering of ways. Yet after that he was uber apologetic, pointing out all the ways he had sabotaged and hurt me and telling me I was unforgettable and wanted to resume our relationship-well, I’d have to say “accquaintance” was more accurate. I have been in large groups and gatherings with him, been introduced to his family, included on important family gatherings,-never as a gf, of course. Then, alone on a sexual level with him, but as far as him asking me out on a date, or to the movies,or to dinner-no deal.
Sorry I’m rambling, maybe just trying to process my own behaviours as I write them down. I need to see him as he really is, but that would involve more thinking about him and analysing him, yes??
But I do appreciate your input also, Gail-everyone is so smart and well-directed and firm in their resolve. I want what YOU have!
I noticed that when I dated that one guy, I enjoyed it until I realised that I liked him. Then I began to totally panic and feel vulnerable, waiting for his call, being disappointed when he didn’t and thinking that something was NOW bound to go wrong.
That;s when i knew I was an EUW.When I didn’t care about him, he was fun. WHen I did, I felt I would lose and began to look for faults in him. Is there any hope? He stopped calling when he said he would, a couple of days later and then cancelling dates. However, I then cut him off and told him nicely that I didn’t think he was making me calling me a priority and that was okay with him not doing it again. I felt I’d been strong with a boundary.
About a year later, he called me and said he was going out of town on business but would love to see me again,and would call me on his return. I said “Sure!”, knowing he wouldn’t call and didn’t. Six months later, he asked my friend’s MOTHER out!! (She’s very vivacious and youthful looking and turned him down) My God, I know how to pick’em, don’t I!
My ex-EUM contacted me today …and I responded…he was reaching out and I took the bait. We had a very pleasant conversation for an hour…just catching up…his life hasn’t been great recently and I think he was just looking for an ego stroke from someone who cares…and I obliged. I am not going to beat myself up for it…it felt good to hear from him, but sad at the same time because ultimately I’ll never hear or get from him what I always wanted and I guess it brings up the hurt again. I felt that I couldn’t be so mean and just ignore him…but then I’m left feeling the pain again. The pain of not having him the way I would have wanted it. I guess I can start from this moment on with the NC. It’s easy to dole out the advice to others, but sometimes hard to follow it for myself.
Blackgnat,
Don’t apologize for rambling. It does help to write it down, I am getting writer’s cramp from all of my writing albeit it, mostly in a journal now!
As far as “thinking about him and analizing him” (this won’t achieve anything, you cannot change him), maybe channel that energy and think about yourself and a self analysis.
Keep reading posts from this site, blogs by others going through what you are going through, posts from Natalie and again, if you can, get NML’s book, it was a catalyst to changing my life.
This will help with your resolve and most of all baby steps and patience (not one of my virtues but I am learning it), this doesn’t happen over night!….Gail
It had been 3 months of NC and now I’m back to square one again. It’s not that I thought he would be different, I just missed the friendship and I truly felt for him with what he was going through and then the pain for me, because he won’t let me be there for him…won’t really let me in.
Finally,
You’re not being mean by not responding. You’re protecting yourself!!!
Do you think he considered how he treated you during your “relationship?”
Remember ladies, these guys are not our friends, or they would not have treated us the way they did!
Finally,
One more thing. Why do you want to be there for someone who wasn’t there for you????
Gaynor, you are right, however, he was there for me when I needed him in times of crisis and I know he would be there for me if I needed him for during a crisis, if I was in some type of jam or trouble, and he’s having a crisis now and I just listened. I know he can’t be there for me as in a serious commitment and that’s why I’m not with him anymore…but you are right, I can’t let this lead to anything more…thanks for helping to set me straight! xxxxoooooo……
Sometimes Iget scared that something will happen to him,like he’ll die and then life is so short-I would hate to think that I ignored someone that once meant so much to me.
I guess that I need to think that he doesn’t think similarly or else he wouldn’t ignore me, right? But then I often think that he, with his actions, showed me what he was -though sometimes he’s been very kind and said we’d always be in each other’s lives because I was special to him. SO the mixed messages always gave me false hope.
I generally don’t like to be rude, but I have to see things as they are and most importantly NOT BE THE ONE TO CONTACT. If he DOES contact me, I could be polite but not buy into the idea that it’s anything but a hook-baiting.
Sometimes I think I just am bored and am trying to create excitement for myself. Even though I DON’T get excited when he contacts me or responds, any longer. It used to be the feeling of, “Haha, I win, he still wants me” , but not only do I see from NML and all’s wisdom that it’s NOT that, but also I’m not that bothered about winning any more. What am I winning anyway? That’s why I would give him a bj and expect nothing in return-I liked the feeling of power and seeing him helpless. Knowing he felt too proud to ask me, but was too weak to refuse my sexual advances. But even that isn’t working for me any more-it just makes me feel like an unpaid hooker. Which is basically what I’ve been all along. Whatever guise of going over to his house there was-to help with his website, buy some art from him, have him cook for me-he gives classes sometimes, writing proposals for grants with him, etc…..there was always the unspoken agreement of the sex. If there was shagging, there’d be NO foreplay…
Hope I’m not offending anyone with me graphic recountings, here…
Years of therapy for me, dontcha think?
finially<
Its not like you slept with him. Cut yourself some slack. It isn’t about counting the days, its about recognizing the hurt and continuing on the quest to heal. When you see his call again, remember how you felt after this last call.
blackgnat<
I think it would be good for you to go on a few date. Post a pretty picture on-line, go on some dates and get some attentions. I will give you a lift and make you realize their is another world. Just be honest with the dates that you aren’t ready to jump into something else right away. Also a change in careers might be a good thing. It is hard to meet men when you are bored, and when you work with all women.
Actually not to sound contrary nysharon, I think blackgnat should not attempt dating right now. Honestly she is too primed from everything else with her EUM to be able to fully put her heart into meeting the right guy and recognizing what is healthy and what isn’t healthy, because pain and hurt can cause you have a knee jerk reaction putting yourself into another relationship for things to happen just the same as before. I think now would be a good time to focus on getting yourself together and the dating thing will start happening naturally on it’s own. I feel like if blackgnat starts dating again it will be only to try to avoid dealing with all of the things that she needs to address from this last relationship.
Blacknat, has he ever contacted you or were you the one that only initiated contact and get togethers?
Astelle, yes he would contact me every now and then and in the beginning the emails would be very fast and furious. After one prolonged abstinence, I emailed him briefly (our native countries were playing each other in the World Cup and we both love soccer!) and he replied with a whole torrent of emotion and regret, admitting his wrongs in the behavior, so sorry for distancing himself from something that could have been so good, etc. I was overwhelmed..
Sorry,,rambling. He would call sporadically and he would instigate it,but its mostly been me who is the initiator.
Dating….Thanks for the suggestion-a teensy tiny crumb of that is beginning to take root in my head, but mostly I fear it and fear I will sabotage it, that I have nothing to offer it, that I will find fault with them and they with me, that the other shoe will always hanging and waiting to drop.
This is probably why the EUM is appealing-he doesn’t want reality and neither do I yet. Someone would have to be incredible to spark my interest and let my guard down.
But I DO thank you for the suggestion-somewhere down the line I have to connect with the male species and I am sure there are lots of nice guys around, but right now I have to look into my profound anxiety about trusting someone and having them let me down again.
He just responded to my email and my apology. He said I obviously don’t understand Facebook and how it works, that I need to think things through before I write things like this-that my comments were directed straight to his heart. That was in reference to the first email, when I was hurt about not being included in his friend gallery.
Re: the apology (I DID apologise when I realised that I’d been out of line-sorry, I know I did not follow the advice of the wise on here, but I really did feel that I had gone into an unnecessary amount of almost guilt-tripping, once I realise how nebulous Facebook can be) he said he didn’t know what I was talking about and hoped I had not written anything compromising on the Facebook site. He said he was really worried now and that we needed to talk about this.
I think he WAS right about my overreaction, but the apology reference suggests to me that he is afraid I will reveal my association with him in the past (FWB) to these people I barely know and then his true colors will be revealed.
I get the feeling that if he does bother to pursue the idea of us discussing it (probably not in person-too intimate) then he will be in the role of the stern father and I in the role of errant teenager and will be given my walking papers…WHY didn’t I just leave it alone, per the advice of NML? Let this be a lesson to all of you who want to get a foot in the door again,or do a little snooping!
How shall I handle this? Ignore and see if he wants to come up smelling like a rose? Try to clarify my position, like “I was wrong, but you’ve never treated me more than a few steps up from a booty call”? Wait for him to text, email or, MY GOD, CALL??? Depends how worried he is about his public image. Do I say, look, I apologised for my mistake, just leave it?
Am actually amazed that he replied-is it that he really DOES have a heart in there, or again, that he fears I would reveal his sordid past? I actually have WAY too much integrity to do that!
All advice is welcome!
Blackgnat, I really don’t want to hurt your feelings, but I am somewhat “worn out” reading your last post. Why bother apologizing to him, you need to cut the contact with him!
Before you do anything else, read NML’s book first and hopefully you will stop contacting this guy. You are expecting something from him that he is NOT willing to give. Stop the madness, keep some of your pride!
Astelle, I’m sorry I wore you out.
I understand I’m a crashing bore, but I really wanted to get it all out and I thought this was the place to do it. I recall that you have been in similar place (if I’m not getting my sources wrong and please correct me if am) and were not understanding why you couldn’t stop contacting your EUM. You could neither understand his behaviour and needed guidance.
I have downloaded NML’s book and read it twice. Just becuse I have read it (and enjoyed it immensely) and taken on board the incredible common sense advice doesn’t mean that I”m instantly capable of applying it. I obviously have a LOT of work to do on myself.
I am happy that you are in a secure place but I am not.
I will not post about this again., though I can’t see what I’m doing that’s so different from the rest of the Fallback/YoYo/ girls…
I think it’s really difficult for us women to believe that a man can be intimate with us and yet have no feelings at all about it.
Re; blackgnat – “is it that he really DOES have a heart in there” – we really would like to believe so, huh? They don’t. No matter how many excuses we make for the EUM / clown, the bottom line is that no decent human-being treats another person the way these guys do. They are never going to feel guilty for the treatment because they literally see it that we enjoy / accept it.
To restate what was said to me from a caring friend….”What woman with even an ounce of respect for herself would accept being treated like trash.” I’ve heard reference on this blog to “crumbs” “booty-call” etc but lets face it, they have no respect for us in any regard. I don’t care if any of us believe that we are lower than dirt….none of us deserves to be treated like trash!
Blackgnat, My advice is just to stop. Stop analyzing his motives for what he is doing. Based on your description of your “relationship” with him, it’s safe to assume that whatever he is going to do will be self-serving. Each time you have contact, and explain, apologize, clarify or whatever, you are making yourself look the fool, and sorry to say that, but that is how it is coming across.
You weren’t a friend on his Facebook. You were upset and told him so. Big deal. Don’t get hung up on feeling embarrassed about your initial reaction. There is nothing more to discuss. Don’t be amazed that he replied, it doesn’t mean he has a heart. He knows he treated you as a booty call, you don’t need to point that out to him. Just disengage, and don’t give him the chance to further humiliate you.
I ditto Astelle-read NML’s book before you do anything else. It will really help you see things clearly.
Sorry Black gnat I just read your post that you read the book. Don’t feel like you can’t post about what you are going through on here. We really do understand what you are going through, but are trying to point out the reality of the situation to you, which can sometimes come across harsh, but please realize it comes from a place of compassion and understanding, which sometimes doesn’t come across so well on the internet.
Blackgnat, I should have added a smiley face to my comment, the written word can be interpreted in different ways, I am not trying to discourage you from posting, I am trying to encourage you to stop contacting this guy. Yes, I am talking from experience, except all the drama like the Face book thing and thinking about discussing this BS with him, the mad e-mails and apologizing, but everybody is different. Once you understand that no matter what you do, what actions you take or not, will have no impact on how he reacts or what he will do!
You said in an earlier post that he is ignoring you, what more do you need? Since you read NML’s book twice, what exactly stops you from cutting contact, being a doormat?
This “relationship” will never work, it takes two to Tango and I don’t see him dancing.
metsgurl, we should not lose respect for ourselfs and accept his crumbs.
You’re all so right. I sometimes think I must be an effing lunatic. He said my words “went straight to his heart” and he advised me to think things through before I wrote something like that again.
After all the things he’s said, done, thought to ME-they don’t amount to a hill of beans, unless they are self serving. HE was hurt by my words because it makes him feel bad.
Oh and I DID contact him just now and apologised and said I hadn’t said anything bad-that’s all he’s worried about! I told him our “friendship” had run its course, but it was something I hadn’t picked up on before. ACK. I ASKED HIM IF HE WOULD PREFER THAT I DIDN”T CONTACT HIM. OH MY GOD. I AM MENTAL.
My God, WHY did I start that whole fucking Facebook thing? It was the FIRST time I’d been on it! Maybe this is the best wakeup call I coulda had-New Year, New Start.
I know the “harsh” words come from compassion and empathy and I thank you all-when I read some of these posts, I’m astonished and want to reach through the screen and slap people. How could I be so level headed with others, seeing the obvious, then completely slimy and masochistic with my own?
So, I will read, read, read -it DOES seep through, honestly. It just takes that name or number on my phone or email to send me reeling. GOD HELP ME!
balckgnat, no, the Facebook thing did not change anything, it was scr**ed up way before that.
Why did you ask him if he would prefer that you don’t contact him anymore? What answer are you expecting? Yes, leave me alone or no, keep on chasing me and feeding my ego?
Do you need him to end it?
Hello ladies,
I need some advice/encouragement. I have a history with EUM’s (as you can tell from some of my earlier posts) and on the road to recovery. This site and you all are such a BIG help to me. So i’m writing b/c I think I may be backsliding. Let me explain. I am on a dating website and a man e-mailed me. We communicated via e-mail for a day or two and then he gave me his phone number and personal e-mail address and asked for mine. He said he thought talking on the phine is a better way to get to know one another. About a day later I texted him my cell#, he said he would call me that day after 2pm. He did text me (not call me, however), but not until 7pm that night. He apologized and said that he had just got in from work. I texted him back and said ok we’ll chat another time. About a day goes by and he calls we talk for about 40mins. The weekend comes and he calls me leaves a VM. I call him back the next day and we talk again for about 30-40mins. We talk about our availability for the upcoming weekend, but nothing concrete. I call him the Wed. before thanksgiving we chat and he promises to call me the Fri. after thanksgiving he asks my availability again, I say Sat. afternoon he also says Sat. afternoon, but we make no conrete plans. Thanksgiving morning he texts me a nice note wishing me a happy thanksgiving and then disappears for three weeks. I contacted him once suring his disapearance (about two weeks after his last contact with me). My text was straighforward I said “Hi, it’s __________ from the (website) haven’t heard from you hope everything is good with you. call me if still interested, if not good luck on you search.” He contacts me via the wesite e-mail three says ago. I have not responded to him. Should I respond to him? Is this a major red flag that I’m trying to ignore? Help.
Kissie, I did a little bit online dating for a while a while back.
Keep in mind – goes for men and women – they are talking, writing to more than one woman/man at a time.
We have “learned” that the disappearing act is a no no! 🙂 Unless he has a GOOD excuse, like medical emergency, it is a red flag.
Here is the “danger” for him to be able to string you along, should the other dates not work out: you contacted him and asked, hey are you still interested – do not do this, he disappeared for 3 weeks without a word – leave it alone.
Now, he goes from talking, texting with you to e-mailing via the dating website? May I ask what he said in his e-mail??
yes you are right… his e-mail was a dry Hi, how are you. Crappy, right?
Kissie, no don’t respond to him, he doesn’t sound interested, which is fine, but is it so fr*icking hard to just say so, he could have done that in an e-mail.
Ladies, what do you think??
Thank you Astelle, to be fair English is not his first language so i think he’s short b/c of that. However, it still does not excuse his behavior. I needed to hear that. Not being honest about how they feel about burns me up inside: that fact that these men are so incapable of just saying “Listen, I’m no longer interested.” I mean, damn, is that sooo hard. I’m not an ogre, I won’t eat you. If you don’t want me that’s fine, just have the balls to say so, jeeeesh.
Oh yes I agree with Astelle … Kissie, I’d suggest you just let him go. That’s such a bad way to start a contact anyway isn’t it, and doesn’t bode well for the future at all.
Good luck, and all the best to you :o)
Gabriella
Kissie, English is not my first language either but I can tell if somebody is short with me or distant.
His english is good enough to sign up for a dating website and talk to you for 40 minutes? 🙂
I think, he just responded to your contact after the 3 weeks, you may not have heard from him at all after he disappeared. That is fine, I think, if a man disappears on me, then don’t respond to me, just ignore me. Now I would never contact somebody that ignores me.
Since you have not met him yet, don’t even think about him. 🙂
Thanks Astelle, I needed to get my head back in the right place. I was fighting myself. part of me said no, don’t contact him and another part of me (the old fallback girl I’m trying to destroy) wanted to give him the benefit of the doubt. I won’t contact him, Like I always say he’s soooo not worthy of me.
If you can stand advice from ME (!) I’d say to also let this one go. It sounds like he’s already giving you the runaround and you guys haven’t even met yet!
Perhaps if he’s a little more persistent, you could meet him for coffee and see if HE’S worthy of YOU! If not, I’d just keep looking for someone who’s more available and willing to put a time and date on a meeting, or else you’re just going to go around thinking it’s you and not them!!
And to Astelle:Yes, I believe that’s why I kissed his ass (metaphorically) and asked if he’d like me to stop contacting him-I would LOVE it if he would draw a line under this whole thing . I know it’s not going to happen and it should be ME-and I doubt he’ll reply anyway, having got his fix of a reply which catered to his ego and assured him that I did not diss him to his other Facebook friends. I am gonna pray that Santa brings me a pair of balls so I can end this BS once and for all.
I feel like shit now-why did I allow myself to be so weak? REALLY??? What the hell is is gonna take? How do we forgive ourselves when we do something that defies logic and self-love? I wanna get drunk and cry my eyes out, but I have to keep it together for my sons.
blackgnat, don’t beat yourself up too much. Take care of your sons and enjoy the holidays. Start NC it will help you to calm down and feel better, day by day. You seem very obsessed with this man and need help to overcome this. Maybe therapy or do you have good friends to keep you on track?
blackgnat this guy is a classic Mr. EUM. Hinesight often gives clarity to these situations. Let me get this right. This guy has been using you as booty call, and then when you call him out on this as well as the fact that you’re not his facebook, he (like a classic manipulator) managed to turn this back around on you so that you’re the one groveling and apologizing to him about him being wrong! Unbelievable. He wasted no time telling you how you’re overreacting, when you’re not. The reason he doesn’t want you to write anything on his facebook is because he is seeing someone else from facebook and would not want her to see your post. Trust me on this, I would bet $500 on it that this is the case. The point is you were right and didn’t trust your gut. I have friends and associates on my facebook. The fact that you’re not on his facebook page signifies and should be clear to you that you do not factor into his life and he doesn’t even consider you a friend. This man is working you over big time. Please really read back over all the things you have posted here about this guy and ask yourself do you truly want to continue to be treated this way. You still haven’t developed enough anger to finally cut contact with this loser yet. Give yourself time, in time you will. Once you realize what this guy and you (yes you!) are doing to yourself you will finally hit the point where he turns you off. Until then just keep writing and reading, becaus a lot of time it’s hard to swallow, but as Astelle said, we’re all in or have been in the exact same position and the ladies here will give you tough love to help.
Blackgnat EUMS never ever ever draw a line in the sand they just take what you are willing to give … I still think it takes time ..
I think your real question was why after 8 years are we still in the same spot and he is incapable of loving me after all ive done??
its good though you have started down the right road…
Nikki, you are absolutely spot on with everything you’ve said and it’s true that I haven’t developed enough anger yet.I HAVE gone through phases of being turned off by him and it’s not even working for me anymore.
I DO have very supportive friends and the majority of them have warned me to stay away from this asshole. A couple have fed into it with me, saying there’s definitely something between us and one in particular has to live through every moment of it with me-but I think she kind of enjoys it,which I find a little suspicious. I mean, I have often gone through phases when I don’t talk about him or I’ll request that we don’t discuss him and she’ll STILL ask “Have you heard from him?” So maybe she likes the drama, too. But she also knows he’s a user and something similar has happened to her.
Astelle, I AM obssessed with him, much less so than I used to be, but I don’t think anyone would believe how much of my head space he occupies on a daily basis. I don’t know how to stop it and I’m not sure what type of therapy I’d need.
Right now I am concentrating on how to not hate myself for being a doormat and asking him if he would prefer I not contact him. He doesn’t give a rat’s ass whether I do or not. I KNOW THIS!!! So, is it just all about MY ego?
ANd tulipa, I agree that he will always take what I’m willing to give-I will not get an answer to my questio n about contact because he wouldn’t want to cut off a source of sex, which is what I have become.
He won’t even have the common decency to reply to my emails, he’s just on to the next thing.
Nikki, I also agree that he will be seeing someone on Facebook and probably from many other places. One time we were together and he told me that he’d been with 3 women that week and they had all admired the girth of his penis (unfortunately, he’s well hung, which I think is a major part of the problem too-I’ve been Dickmotised) Can you imagine-THREE women in one week? I guess FOUR including me….The thing is, he’s not really that good of a lover-no foreplay (for me,anyway) NO oral (unless he’s “in love”) and sometimes quite aggressive. I’ve often actually thought he’s a repressed homosexual.
Ugh-WHY do I want him, again?
because you have invested 8 years into him and you want a return.. don’t worry time will come and you will really wake up to the fact hes an ASSCLOWN and you are better off without him because NOTHING is going to change … You can only change and be responsible for yourself …
Thanks tulipa, you are right! It’s a long road ahead and I actually feel slightly better today-Time is the great Healer.
I’m sure the way to go is to be healthy, strong, well-nourished and alcohol free. Anything that clouds the mind and encourages self-doubt
must be kicked to the curb. Realisation will come over time, as you said and I can’t wait for that day-but I have to build towards that myself (to your comment about responsibility) and not allow myself to be stuck repeating the same old negative patterns then expect something to change!
Merry Christmas to ALL of you and thanks a million for your support and caring !!
Great article…I would like to share something here.My EUM contacted me about 10 days back after a bitter fight with me in which he accused me of all kinds of nonsense.Anyway,when he called me I was a fool to respond thinking that things would be different this time.No.It was back to square one the very next day and I ended up cursing myself for entertaining him.Even then I texted him saying that I would like to be there for him as a friend and all that…He did not even bother to reply.I felt hurt but went on with my work and stopped calling him after that.How would I…when he was not even interested to reply.About 3 days back I was to attend a job interview.I do not know how this man got to know about it but he sent me his wishes that too by sms.I was furious….when I begged and pleaded the week before he was not bothered…And his resorting to text messages to communicate with me every time really got my goat..For the last 1 year I have been tolerating this.Fear…was the main factor..fear of losing him…but then..he has never been there for me in the first place…he has accused me of everything possible under the sun…all because i wanted him to spend some time with me..I realise that the time has come for me to take stalk of my life.I texted him back saying that I do not need his wishes and taht I cannot stand him anymore.Believe me..he has told me this many times..and it used to hurt like hell…Not to be left out he texted me again saying that the feeling of animosity is more than mutual..but he just wanted to wish me luck…I was furious…mutual animosity???Is this what this man has for me after I ‘ve told him atleast 100 times how much I like him.I texted him again saying that I would not entertain him anymore and would like o be left alone fow hich he sent me a weird reply with only smileys.May be he was making fun of me….I have said this many times before..but have never stuck to NC.I feel empowered now…After 1 year of putting up with this nonsense..I had the courage to ask him to get lost.I just hope I can stick to it this time.Seriously..I am tired,exhausted..and frustrated..If I think of the time and energy I wasted on such an insensitive person I only get angry with myself for putting up with all this.I would like to thank this website.Everything written here is true.It keeps coming back to my mind again and again whenever I feel weak and think about him.
hi Brooke,
Just know that you will be able to forget him. Keep doing the NC rule, don’t ask him to leave you alone, if he contacts you, ignore him, ignore the texts, the phone calls, the vm. ignore all of it. Behave as if he does not exist. This is very hard, but esential if you are going to get over him. I suspect the smiley faces are his way of saying, “yeah you stupid bitch, I can still get your goat.” these men have very little emotional depth or feeeling and what they do have is for themselves only. don’t be afraid of being alone, youv’ve ben alone for along time. Being with an EUM is as if you are alone b/c they give you no emotional nurturance or support. Be strong and promise to put as much energy into loving and respecting yourself as you did in trying to change him and get him to love you.
Carm, I want to thank you for your comments WAY back up there to me, which was to STOP. Stop the anaylsis, what’s he thinking, why did I do it,etc. It’s REALLY hard for me to do this, I am a natural overthinker (and a Virgo, if any of y’all believe in astrology!) but I am really gonna try with everything I have, because it makes a lot of sense.
Years ago I tried rubber band therapy and it was pretty effective for me. AND it hurts like hell! HAhaha
blackgnat, I “believe” in astrology, what sign is your EUM? Libra?
My EUM is Pisces.Opposite of Virgo…
Okay, just be patient with me please, I’m still absorbing information-if we took it upon ourselves to assume things (well, I did-I read into the EUM thing WAY more than I should have done) and are taking responsibility for this, WHY SHOULDN’T WE APOLOGISE TO THEM?
I’m not a fan of 12 step, but DO believe that if you do something wrong you gotta apologise and acknowledge your part in it. My EUM NEVER promised me anything, never said he loved me-I told him he was a special person in my life and that there was something he did for me that nobody else did and I didn’t understand it and couldn’t explain it. He said he felt exactly the same about me but couldn’t explain it either. He would say, “What is it about you?” and say I was like and addiction. He said we would definitely always be in touch, throughout our lives.
BUT HE NEVER SAID HE LOVED ME. HE said I was a friend and he cared about me and what happened to me. One time, drunk, I texted him that I had to stop contacting him because I was in love with him and I knew he didn’t feel the same way about me and that it was too difficult for me. Then I retracted that (because I think it’s always been more infatuation-I am an EUW and not in love with him) and that’s when he said the “care” thing (how effing lame that word is)
I’m rambling here to say that I invented the relationship or refused to see it as it was, as he really TOLD me (with his actions) it was. SO, as I feel I’ve caused him a number of uncomfortable moments (though we have reconnected innumerable times-blowing hot at first and always ending as a booty call -sometimes with sex for ME, haha, but usually as a power trip, me pleasuring him so I could keep him under my “spell”)…
yeah….so, shouldn’t I say sorry for past mistakes? His time knowing me would have been MUCH less complicated and drama-filled if I hadn’t made so many assumptions and projections.
Can anyone relate or help me with this? Hope I haven’t been too rambling, I’m processing my thoughts as I write…
I KNOW the answers are all over the website, I just hoped someone could encapsulate them again, or give me another reality check till I reach the point where his hooks are not in as deeply.
Thanks!
Ok Blackgnat, so basically you feel you should apologize to this guy for not making it easier for him to treat you like a booty call. And what you describe as being a “power trip” for you, you pleasuring him, doesn’t even sound like a booty call for you. Seriously, if a guy is hooking up with a girl and she is doing all the pleasuring, it sounds like a “power trip” for the guy, not the girl.
There is nothing to apologize to this guy about. He was using you, and continued to use you despite knowing you had stronger feelings for him. Apologizing to this guy will be like lowering yourself to the point of no return. You are taking the idea of taking responsibility for your part too far.
If you want to apologize, you should be apologizing to yourself for making all of those assumptions, projections, and being in denial which led you to putting yourself in such a demeaning relationship for so long. Apologize to yourself, forgive yourself, and then try to find out what was so attractive to you about him and this kind of relationship to begin with. Why did you want someone so badly who treated you like this? I really think the answer to this kind of question involves exploring our past relationships and our pasts.
Carm thanks for your reply-I guess on one level I did want something more, then realised that I have a lot of EU issues and wasn’t sure I liked this guy and realised I DIDN’T want a relship with him. I SWEAR TO GOD that I normally would NEVER let any other man try this shit with me.
There is something about him that I have not been able to shake. Maybe it’s because other areas of my life are in a rut and I am at something of a crossroads at my life.
I don’t know what happened to me. I just got divorced (after 4 years of wrangling) and I guess my ex was an EUM, but he always treated me well. I still have a very amicable relationship with him. My childhood was pretty happy-dad very much a ‘man’s man”, but my brother was diagnosed with schizophrenia when he was 21 (I was14, formative years and all) and so I’m wondering if that’s what happened-like in NML’s book when some situations dictate that the attention goes to another sibling for a variety of reasons.
Also, while I am no Quasimodo, my older sister, whom I adore, was a KNOCKOUT!! I often wonder if that’s why my self esteem is lower. I actually think it’s always been pretty good, but I guess not….
All this boils down to is I want to NOT think this guy should be in my life-only focussing on what is good about him and not all the horrible shit that I have invited and allowed to continue.
I’m SO mixed up and lost and feeling so wretched today.
During my divorce, I had a couple of years of therapy but realised that I was just going round in circles.
I feel I wouldn’t even know where to start-I can’t identify my problem enough to know why I would let this guy treat me like this. I feel I’m too screwed up to even begin! Am I just being obtuse about this? Or in denial?
For YEARS I have had a total obsession about a particular country and loved everything about it, wanted to visit it, studied it ,the culture, the language, etc at University. I lived there for a couple of years. Then I got rusty at the language and decided to take some refresher courses. This EUM was my TEACHER of these classes. He totally abused his position as instructor-he has been teaching there for about 12 years now and must have gone through countless women. His female students were his narcisstic harem-every quarter, a fresh batch of women would come through and he would play as many as he could……
SO, in trying to reject him, it’s rejecting all the things I’ve ever loved about my obsesssion with his country and culture. I don’t feel I can even pursue my true passions and interests, because they all involve things that remind me of him..
Sorry to be getting all Psyhcology-ish on here, but I guess I’d like you to know me and maybe give me some big hints about how I got here and what I can do..
Thanks!!
blackgnat, apologizing to him – for what exactly?? His life would have been with less drama? Who “forced” him to respond to your contact, to sleep with you, to use you? I feel “sorry” for him ,must have been really bad. Stop taking the blame for everything, it takes two to Tango and it is time to find a different dance partner, because this one s*cks at it. You know, an emotional healthy man would not have accepted your contacts – period.
But, the most important thing right now for YOU is, to stop contacting this man!! Find your pride, he doesn’t care if you reject him, you are one of many and all you are doing is feeding his supersized EGO.
If you really want to just think about the good things about him – what exactly is good about him? – if this helps you not to contact him, fine.
I know how crazy I’m being, but I’m just being brutally honest as I have NEVER connected with a site like this and women like me who have done and believed the most absurd things in the name of romance, or how ever it is being defined.
I have not contacted this man since I apologised for going over the top (that part WAS my fault!) but as I told him, as soon as I knew how facebook worked, I admitted my error and reassured him I had not besmirched his character (which was truly the only thing he cared about-
not ONCE did he reassure me to say, “Blackgnat, I KNOW you’ve been there for me in the past and appreciate all those times-you’re a very important person to me”. No, he was all about how the way I was thinking was unreal and unfounded and that he was worried I had said something compromising on FB about him. HIM, HIM, HIM.
I have not contacted him since December 21st and I do NOT intend to, not new year, not his birthday, nothing. And he will not contact me, so the line is drawn under it.
I just have those moments of incertainty when I feel that I pushed him to be angry with me because of my own insecurities.
Sorry ladies, I will TRULY try to calm down about this!
blackgnat, I am glad that you can see it is all about HIM, HIM, HIM.
In those moments of uncertainty – do nothing, don’t contact him – it will pass. I wish I could give you the last “kick” that you need to at least stop contacting him, nobody can make you get over him, you have to do that?
Do you have a good friend that can help ypu and kick your but when needed?
Careful, you say he will not contact you, how do you know that?
Don’t be suprised if he does, just don’t reply.
Thanks Astelle, I DO have several friends that will kick my butt for me! One yesterday said she was now going to just refuse to talk about him and obvious as this may seem, it really helps!
I think he’ll think I’m too crazy to contact me for a while.Plus, I was usually the initiator.
But half an hour ago, I did get a text fromhis sister-to whom I’m pretty close-asking if I wanted to go to a party with them (her and her husband and some friends, I guess) on NYE. His other sister is over here with her family for Xmas from their native country and they’re probably going out (including him, I’d imagine) in a big group. This has happened before.
I just wonder if she’s asking on his behalf so he knows to avoid me if I agree to go.
But as much as I like her, I lied and said I had already been invited somewhere else. I think it’d be the wrong thing on all levels if I were to go, whether he were going or not. We would either ignore each other, or he might turn up with a new girl and see that I have no one to go with. Plus, I don’t want to see him or give his sisters any opportunity to report back to him….
Blackgnat, you are right in refusing the invitation its too soon and you are still sorting things out in your head..so good on you for being strong and saying no.. I know how much it would hurt you for you to see him with someone else.. way tooooo soon …
Well, today I get something from a webhosting site (I have a blog that he set up for me-a group of us got together and paid him to be the host-technology is not my strong point, so this might not sound right to those who know) and normally I forward everything of this nature to him and ask if I need to address or just ignore it. I haven’t had one of these notices for months now, so I wonder if it’s a ploy to get me to contact him.
One year when we had had a horrible fight, he sent me a newsletter (he sells art on the web) the day after. When we reconnected a couple of months later, I told him I knew he had made a mistake in sending the newsletter to me and he said “No, I sent it on purpose. I wanted to know if you were mad at me!”
Then today, I also get an invitation from his sister (whose New Year’s party I refused to go to) to BE A FRIEND ON FACEBOOK. Which is where this chaos started (THIS time around!) when I began my Drama seeking mode.
Could this be HIM, working through her? I have never received such a request from her before and I’ve known her for 5 years…
BK,
It doesn’t matter! Let it be.
Gaynor, I know it doesn’t matter, truly I do! I will do nothing about this and let it be.
I have done my 12 rounds with Mike Tyson and am not getting up again….
I’m still processing and taking baby steps.
Just wanted to share.
I know. But it seems you’re just creating additional drama for yourself. You know what this guy is all about, and that’s no good!!!! Being away from these people is supposed to lessen the drama not continue it.
Hon, it’s been eight LONG years, it’s time to accept it and let go completely!!!!
BK, since you have known the sister for 5 years, ask her if he is going thru her – takes the guessing out.
Gaynor, no, I’m honestly just sharing-how do you interpret from what I said that I was creating more Drama? If I’d contacted him about the webhosting or accepted his sister’s invitations to both NYEve party AND Facebook, I’d say yes, I’m creating Drama. But I’m not doing any of it. I don’t want to Feed the Beast any more. Okay, I guess I AM wondering if he has such horse’s balls to actually do something like that. (haha) But to your point, it doesn’t matter.
I noticed that other posters give updates, telling about Xmas texts from EUM s and such and I thought it was okay to say a bit more.
Astelle, I don’t want to ask his sister anything about him. We have had innumerable conversations with each other without mentioning his name once, so it’s possible. I don’t want to find out anything about him. When we talk and meet, it’s all girl stuff ON PURPOSE for me. I prefer to keep my friendship with her a completely separate entity. Plus, I would feel humiliated if I DID ask and she said “No, he hasn’t mentioned you-did you have a fight?” or something like that. I think it’s best just left alone. But thanks for the suggestion.
You know, my Facebook incident, which triggered my final epiphany, only happened 8 or 9 days ago, so please be patient with me?
I’m still learning how to do this properly.
Yes, but there’s giving updates and giving “updates.”
You’re trying to get answers as to why he’s doing what he’s doing. You know deep down what he’s doing and why he’s doing it. No need to look into his actions anymore and try to interpret them . That’s why I suggested that you leave it alone and try to move on with your life.
Blackgnat, this sounds very similar to NML’s post about Shades of Grey…you may want to go back and read it for some inspiration!
I have to agree with everyone here blackgnat. I know its hard…believe me—- I am still going through it. But you have to keep reminding yourself and re-reading the NO CONTACT RULE in order to get yourself out of the “HABIT” of continuing to think about “HIM”. Believe me, I know it is easier said than done. I have my moments…but with each passing day it gets better– because I am determined for it to get better. I think you are still not convinced of who he REALLY is…. you first have to REALLY realize that the person who you thought he was — isn’t– but only in your mind and in your thoughts and in your heart. You have to be willing to look reality in the face regardless of how fearful and hurftul it is at times to know the truth. If you think about it– that is the part that really hurts the most… knowing that we have been wronged,,,, you are still seeking validation from “HIM” when it needs to come and can only come from “YOU”!!! Keep reading and re-reading NML’s articles and book until your mind finally grasps the NEW and REAL reality of who you have been with. This takes courage….. but I know you can do it!!! Stop the Facebook and the analyzing and the questioning etc…etc… it only keeps you “STUCK”…… its when you finally get to the place where you can really say to yourself “who cares” that you will know you have progressed!! That is what Gaynor and everyone here is trying to tell you….. Look at it as bad habit you have to kick…. our minds are very malleable and if we were able to get “hooked” on the belief that these men were good for us…… we can re-learn a new belief but you have to start re-training your mind to think that way… that is the key!!! And it doesn’t start with you questioning if he was the one who sent you the friend request on Facebook…..!
Wow. I still really think I’m just giving an update.
I have been on Facebook ONCE in my life.That was what started my recent distress. Haven’t done it again. I’m not looking him up, texting, emailing, calling, googling him, going to his website, going to his sister’s party, accepting a Friend invitation from her. (I deleted it as soon as I saw what it was) driving up to his house, driving by his house, etc….
At one time I would have done all of these things and more.
No teeny tiny pat on the back for THAT??
Some other posters are writing,….”got the Xmas text from the EUM” and “….took a call bcuz I didn’t realise it was him….” and shit like that.
Why am I getting the “You need to stop analysing him” replies?
blackgnat….you’re doing well. it’s tough love on here sometimes i guess. Keep at it, it’s bloody hard but you are doing it. We all have to process NC day by day….you should be able to post with your questions, progress, analysis etc…just stick with it!
BK, pat on your back for not contacting him, stay strong.
You need to stop analyzing him, because it is pointless and you will never be able to figure him out or get any answers and it will drive you nutty. You are the only one that can stop this cycle with him.
And, I really don’t want you to be his doormat.
Do you feel guilty for cutting contact with him?
I am really struggling tonight. It’s been over a month NC but I miss him. I know it will pass…I just keep wondering whether he is thinking about me, and I know that shouldn’t matter. This site has really helped me to stay strong and to look at things realistically…but I’m having a weak moment! I will never contact him, I know that…but I can’t stop hoping he will contact me. Gah. Hopefully tomorrow morning my resolve will have strengthened again.
Blackgnat~ I think Karen is absolutely right! In fact, I’m learning that even though I’m not reacting to the ploys like I did in the past (same with you….and you deserve a huge pat on the back) I still haven’t changed the “dynamics” in my mind. I still want to believe that he was a good guy….and he just wasn’t.
If you really want to recant fond memories of your EUM then remember all the humiliating things he’s done and then get ticked off! Because you deserve better then that….
All the entries on this site is using “tough love” on you because that’s whats required right now in order for you to look at it realistically.
Nice input Karen….I needed to hear that too!
Thanks for the pats, guys!
I felt embarrassed posting that last one bcuz I knew I was being pouty, but I did want recognition for my efforts and I really appreciate what you all posted just now.
Believe me, Astelle, I don’t feel guilty cutting contact-I have not earned that right to say I have cut it. I mean, I have done so for 9 days, but I have a LONG LONG ways to go….90% of the time it was me who initiated contact, so I am used to not hearing from him anyway!-the true test will be when I feel vulnerable and miss the things that I liked about him.
Sorry that you are struggling charlie33-it’s so hard, especially at this time of year which can be so magical for some, it seems like everyone else is getting loved up and we want to have some kind of contact and comfort.
Yes, it has been such a habit of mine to analyse. Only time will heal THAT habit regarding him. I haven’t fully realised the extent of my humiliation and metsgurl, you are totally right-the dynamics in my mind haven’t changed, either. But it’s only been 9 days or something, so I’m trying to be gentle. I’m sorry you are suffering. It’s really like a death-the loss of hopes and dreams, but isn’t there an expression, “If you’re going through hell, keep going” ?
This sux. Thanks for all the comments and I need the tough love, but sometimes it’s ….er….well….tough!
Stay strong!
BK, you made 90% of the contact, what did his 10% look like?
Tough love is better than sugar coating. 🙂
Tough love kicked me into reality, I wish I had had it earlier on!
Gaynor, same here 🙂 I love your posts, great advice that you are giving!
oh, and a 100 comments down the road, we may “miss” the message of NML’s post – just DO something!
Astelle, I feel the same about your input!!
Happy New Year!!!
Astelle, I AM “DOING ” something, by doing nothing!
I’m glad you and Gaynor are loving each other’s advice and are so far down the road. It must be a comfortable position to be in .
I have only just started this. I can take the tough love, but the mutual admiration thing smacks of self -righteousness. And sharing my thoughts here is making me feel like I’m doing it wrong,so I’m going back to lurking.
But thanks anyway for even caring enough and taking the time to post. Some of us simply are not going to get it right away. Progress isn’t supposed to be linear, right? Two steps forward, one step back?
Happy New Year to all.
BK,
That wasn’t necessary at all. I respect the majority of advice given on this site, and have learned a great deal from all.
If you’re only here to get sympathy then I think you’re in the wrong place. Yes, we will give sympathy and support but we will also give constructive advice that will help one another move on from these ridiculous relationships.
I think you need to ask yourself if you are really on here to move on from this creep?????
BK, you are taking my comments way to personally. I never said that you are doing something wrong and I also understand that everybody will get over the heartbreak at their own pace. Eventually everything will be O.K.. Keep your chin up and Happy New year!
Gaynor I also respect the advice, but I have sensed that you are expecting my head to be on too sensibly at this stage of my game.
Your comment “Yes, but there’s giving updates and giving “updates” ,” was something I thought was unnecessary for YOU to say. Unlike other posters, you haven’t given me any credit for not initiating or responding to contact. The message I get from you is that I should be getting on with this all much quicker. After eight years, it’s not that easy, though I am trying. If I could have just been able to turn it off that easily I wouldn’t have needed this site.
I understand what has to be done and am NOT looking for sympathy, again just some pats on the back, which I was delighted to get from other posters. It made me feel stronger and able to do more of the same. I’m absolutely certain that I have been a complete idiot and doormat and need to get over it.
I am feeling pretty depressed and fragile right now, but I do not want to cause any bad feelings here.
Gaynor and Astelle, please accept my apologies for the comments I made that offended you. I’m sure I took them too personally, but for the nth time, this is something I only started TRULY facing 10 days or so, so the best thing for me is probably to refrain from posting until I have done more reading of NML’s posts and can contain my emotions a little better.
Happy New Year to All.
BK, 2009 will be a great year!! 🙂
Blackgnat, The project that he hosts for you on the internet – you have to break that connection. Don’t take ownership in, or use anything he is connected with. You are letting technology bind you into a phantom relationship, it paralyzes you so you do not control your own life.
If the web is a mystery – take a class. Sit down with a knowledgeable friend (other than this guy!) and take notes. Or hit the library and grab a book or two on the Internet.
If you want a web presence, set one up on your own – blogger and google and wordpress.com are free, as are some others. There are some awesome sites that help newcomers learn what to do and how to get things working well. But you have to look, and read, and practice. If he is big on facebook – avoid it. Clean out your own page, and leave. Protect yourself.
I am sure you know, that women and men communicate differently. Tell a man a problem, and the typical response is to try to fix it. Tell a woman a problem, and usually get emotional validation.
You are feeling hurt and frustrated because your problem isn’t getting the emotional validation you would expect. And you aren’t ready to hear a guy with a solution. Really.
One thing you might try – first is read NML’s books – then print out this whole post and comments, and read it through. Make notes, questions, etc. Then read it all again, top to bottom, and see if any of the meanings change. Put it away, and return the next day after a good night’s sleep. Then read again. What might happen is that you start to see your posts as others do, and perhaps see a different meaning, different things meant, unsaid, or implied. And perhaps more compassion than it feels like tonight.
Blessed be.
BK,
I wish you the best! Trust me it will get much easier with time.
Happy New Year!!!!
Brad K., thanks for your reply. The site I have is wordpress, but he hosts it-I paid him $200 for 2 years. I think I have the terminology right about hosting.
Anyway, I have deleted my blog entries and added nothing more. I would like him to take it down altogether but that would mean contacting him.
I will keep working on this, but I also wonder if returning to the site is a way of keeping him alive in my mind?
Blackgnat, When you have asthma, hay fever, pneumonia, etc. you understand that there are regular, everyday things that are problems for you. You get the stupid-looking dust masks, you keep the Saline Nasal Mist in your pocket, in the car, and on your desk. You consider your breathing capacity, the amount of exertion involved, the wind, the air temp and dust quality when you decide where to park your car – or whether to go shopping.
A casual parting of people dating is one thing. When you are entangled with an EUM or other pathological relationship, you have hazards that wouldn’t be threatening to someone else. Yes. Every tie, every aspect of relationship is going to keep re-opening the issues and emotions and ties from your heart to something hurtful. Your first issue is to remove the hurt, and then to heal.
If your hosting deal included a domain name, then sign up for a domain account with one of the registrars (GoDaddy, TuCows, HostMonster, etc.) and request a transfer – you should still be listed as registrant, the owner of the domain. Or ask your new host to help with domain name issues.
Remember to keep it really simple – if asked, yes, you are requesting the domain name be transferred/changed. No one needs to know why. Telling the story, keeping the drama alive, is another tie – get used to not telling, so the story can fade for you, too.
These relationships with EUMs are addictive. They are not normal relationships for us. I’ve have researched and read about the topic and the pull these types of relationships have can be from “attachment hunger (Howard Halpern’s book),” which is a primitive type of reaction due to our childhood and infancy needs which defies logic, common sense and what is best for us. We are recreating with this person (EUM) what we did not get from our parent very early in life. This EUM (addictive person) represents our chance at getting that need met that was not met in childhood. So, ultimately, we fight so darn hard at it that it drives us literally crazy and we cannot understand our behavior. We will sometimes conveniently forget their bad behavior when this drive takes over. This is not an excuse for our behavior, but helps to understand why we behave the way that we do sometimes when we know something is bad for us.
I’ve been crazed since my EUM contacted me a few times under the guise of the holidays. It stirred up this craziness in me that I thought I had totally under control. His uncaring, selfish ways have not changed and I am seeing him in a clearer light with some distance…but the lenses get very foggy when there is contact. Somehow all of my sense goes flying and I am weak when confronted by his voice or email. I realize that NC is the way to go, but understanding what got me there in the first place and why is helpful too!
To happy and healthy relationships only!!!!!!!
Aw, Finally, take care, how long had it been NC?
I had a big setback when I saw him, just out of the corner of my eye at a show. It had been a month and a half of NC. I looked away real quick, and he must have left quickly too. But that glimpse set me back quite a ways. I would have a real hard time dealing with what you just had to, which was very conscious and purposeful on his part.
In _Emotional Unavailability: Recognizing It, Understanding It, and Avoiding Its Trap_ by Bryn Collins, she says one thing that really spooked me and agreed with stuff Natalie says about the EU thing being a socially transmissible phenomenon. To paraphrase, she says that women who get abused or traumatized in their adult life will quickly start displaying the symptoms of women who were traumatized/abused as children! So not all of us can trace it to our childhood and upbringing. But I’ll still be looking for this book.
New Years was also really hard for me, even without any contact, I can only dread how it must feel when you got that contact.
Regina, thanks for your support…it feels good to know there are other women out there going through the same thing. It had been 3 months of NC and 4 months since we saw each other. The relationship was 2 1/2 yrs (1 year straight and then the last 1 1/2 on and off, with me ending it when I couldn’t stand the pain anymore). I have the Bryn Collins book you referred to and read it over the summer…I’ll have to reread it again…the sad part is that even though I know how bad he is for me…there’s a part of me that misses him and the good times we had…I guess it’ll take time to get back where I was.
Regina, How long has NC been for you?
Are there any ladies who are from the NYC metropolitan area?
Hi Finally, I am a little over two months NC (Oct. 25th) of a six year relationship. New Years Eve was always very special for us…we didn’t go to parties, we would go camping alone together. Really this holi was harder than Xmas or my birthday, which is between the two…I mean, if he hasn’t come crawling back by now, and its the new year, well, it’s really over right? Fresh start, baptised with tears.
What did you do for NYE?
Regina, to your point about EU being transferable-that ALSO spooked me, but it is helpful too, because I really feel that I had a happy childhood with good parents.Having said that, my brother was diagnosed with schizophrenia when I was 14 and maybe that’s when it started-I know I had to push an awful lot of feelings down and ignore stuff that was painful.
Maybe that’s why I have been so easily able to mask the pain my EUM has caused me, plus exhibited those symptoms myself. Maybe I was pretending it wasn’t really happening, or I’d “get through it”.
So thanks for that bit of info.
blackgnat – my brother was hospitalized for psychosis/bi-polar when I was in my teens as well. I think you and I did both learn to mask the pain at an early age.
Update on my EUM, like Regina I had a brief setback. I saw him by accident waiting in line at the grocery store. Didn’t know he was there until we were basically face to face. As soon as I figured out it was him I looked away and didn’t look back. He chuckled …just so that I could hear him…not unlike a serial killer. I obsessed about it for the rest of the night. Other than that, still no contact since August. Finally and Regina – he makes my skin crawl, but like you two I sickly still miss him at times. One day at a time, right?
Hi Regina,.. You definitely had a tough one this NYE…but you made it through. I went to a party at a friend’s house. I was thinking of the ex and I think he was with someone, which hurts me.
BBP – some of this defies logic and it’s just something we need to face like an alcoholic has to…one day at a time…
I know I mentioned it on the other thread but after reading the above comments makes sense to mention it again “Obesseive Love” by Susan Foward and Craig Buck .. will reinforce a lot of what you said up above Finally about recreating childhood situations .. and it also talks about your situation Blackgnat it just reinforces all what NML is saying to us as well.. another resource if you like.