Yesterday was the first part in this five-part series focused on getting to the heart of three things that we base our choices in men around; compatibility, type, and common interests, which could actually be at the heart of derailing your relationships and contributing to your difficulty in finding a partner who you can actually forge a relationship with.
In essence, I have previously felt compatibility with Mr Unavailables and assclowns, my ‘type’ was lacking in substance, and while we had some common interests, we certainly didn’t share anything of importance that contributed to the success of the relationship and bound us together in a healthy way.
In this part, I want to talk about ‘soulmates’ and how we have to focus on seeing the wood instead of the trees and being contextual–instead of looking at the inconsequential stuff about compatibility, type, and common interests in isolation, factor them in to the overall picture of reality and ask yourself how much you think the things that matter to you really ‘matter’ and how much they actually benefit you.
At the heart of yesterday’s post was this:
“I’m compatible with someone who loves, respects, trusts, and cares about me, that has values, shares my values, and isn’t trying to fight being a decent person in a decent relationship. It’s more of a turn-on to be around someone with integrity that’s emotionally connected and is truly getting to know me for me and there’s no illusion. I’m compatible with someone who I can lean on emotionally and them me, and I like not living in fear or catering to my fears. I don’t have to (or want to) pretend anymore which means I can get on with being me, enjoying my life, and being happy now.”
Reading some of the comments on part one, I realised that some women still think that finding a mate is like a fairy tale, Mills & Boon novel, romcom film or finding a soulmate, someone who acts, thinks, talks, and is everything that you want them to be and imagined all the time, giving the illusion of a cosmic connection.
What happens if your ‘soulmate’ has an off day, week, month or a few years?
What happens if your ‘soulmate’ is an illusion that doesn’t hold up to scrutiny?
What happens if your ‘soulmate’ can only exist if you have no boundaries and do things on their terms?
Well actually, you don’t need to wonder because if you’ve been involved with a Mr Unavailable or assclown, the likelihood is that part of the reason why you’re still there is because when he briefly exhibited ‘wonderful’ qualities and characteristics, you convinced yourself that you’d found your soulmate because he created ‘feelings’, and then you committed yourself to a voyage trying to get him to be that way again even though he had shown that he was consistently a different person.
The reason why the pursuit of the soulmate concept will come back to bite you in the bum if you’re not careful, is that if you are in pursuit of a ‘feeling’ or have built up your concept of a soulmate based around ideas about compatibility, type, and ‘common’ interests that are not in sync with a healthy relationship, these will create conflicts, misery, plenty of illusions and dalliances with poor partners.
In my book Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl, I explained why pursuing a ‘feeling’ is setting you up for a self-fulfilling prophecy.
We say stuff like, It just feels ‘right’ with him/Things need to be ‘right’ before I’m willing to believe that he’s truly ready/It just didn’t feel ‘right’ with him
While you’re off chasing this ‘feeling’, your Mr Unavailable is chasing unattainable perfection which is how your behaviour ends up falling so in sync with theirs – both of you chasing people that don’t actually exist.
Many of us don’t have a picture of a healthy relationship to work off as a frame of reference, and even if we do, even more of us have negative beliefs about ourselves, love, and relationships, so we’re actually pursuing negative feelings.
In the book I ask:
It’s very important that you stop being a short term thinker and look beyond the trees to the wood beyond. This allows you to stop being focused on illusion and start seeing things contextually so that you look at the bigger picture.
Instead of being focused on the feeling right now or just in those moments, you need to acknowledge that you may feel great now, but you feel like crap the rest of the time, the relationship is floundering, and he has done X,Y, Z that clearly demonstrate that something is very wrong.
This is not about killing ‘passion’ or ‘excitement’ and settling for someone who makes watching paint drying seem like an exciting prospect, but come on!
Passion and excitement is not always packaged up in assclowns and Mr Unavailables. In fact, your idea of passion and excitement is actually propelled by fear and drama.
You keep pursuing the feeling and this is what makes you compatible with fickle, often childish men who don’t know their arse from their elbow because pursuing the feeling and this elusive vision of a man that makes you feel in a way that you’ve conjured up in your mind as being what a soulmate would do, has you placing your reliance and interests in insubstantial men who are emotionally disconnected.
They don’t have to back up their words with actions because if they make the right noises, dip in and out of your life, and cater to your fears while creating drama, it ticks the boxes of these ‘feelings’.
You are more words and illusions focused, tied in with a penchant for believing that certain non-important things (we’re coming to those in the subsequent posts) about compatibility, type, and common interests should keep you with these guys.
You’re not really looking at the man, whether he loves, trusts, respects, and cares about you and whether he has both feet in the relationship and whether you actually feel happy in the relationship.
No…you’re looking at what you think you feel, what you’d like to feel, and what you think you will feel, whether he has a good job/likes to cook/cycle/listen to Pavarotti/is tall/short/good at his job/liked by the old lady down the street/kind to animals and kids/good sense of humour/poetic/struggling artist or musician and all that jazz.
Only problem is that he doesn’t show and behave in a way that says he loves, trusts, cares about, and respects you, plus he may be tall with a big dick, great in the sack, a love of cooking, politics, and great intellect with a decent bank balance, and the supposed liking of his peers, but he also has the emotional capacity of a stone, can’t commit, won’t commit, has other women, tells lies, and knows how to be decent to everyone but you.
If the person is emotionally disconnected or behaves like an assclown, how can your ‘souls’ be so connected?
How can you be so compatible with a relationship that is fundamentally incompatible with your happiness and your self-esteem?
Why is someone who so far has done a damn good job of contributing to your unhappiness, so great, that you keep pursuing the same ‘type’ of guy in a different package?
Why is sharing hobbies and interests more important than sharing values and a genuine interest in each other?
There is no point in being focused on certain ideas of what constitutes compatibility, there is no point in pursuing the same ‘type’ over and over again, and there certainly is no point in staking yourself on common interests, if none of these things add up to a you that is personally happy in a positive relationship with a man that wants to be in that relationship with you.
That is the bigger picture or the ‘wood’ instead of the trees.
If you are pursuing a soulmate or the ‘image’ of what you think is the man that’s going to make you happy and ‘complete you’, you may have inadvertently found yourself chasing someone that either doesn’t exist, or chasing men who your illusions about compatibility, type, and common interests have been projected onto.
Either way, it’s time to do a reality check. If it’s not broke, and you’re happy and this works for you in a good way (doubt you’d be reading this) then crack on with what you’re doing, but if what’s becoming patently clear is that what you’re doing and pursuing is not working for you, it’s time to step into reality and get compatible with healthier options, lose the dodgy ‘types’, and ensure that no matter what interests and hobbies you both share, that you both have both feet in the relationship with the common interest being sharing a healthy relationship, with each other’s best interests at heart.
But most importantly, stop being compatible with bullsh*t, illusions, and false promises.
Part Three focuses on compatibility.
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NML… something I have realized about myself is that I tend to pick arguments at the start of a relationship rather than sitting back and letting it unfold naturally. While I think sometimes my gut is correct, I also believe that I have a tendency to try and over analyze. As a result, I often find fault where there may be none.
That said, sometimes when dating these guys I pick up on early signs of commitment issues OR I am unsure if I am demanding too much commitment up front. With these type of men they do talk the talk– marriage, kids, the last guy called, wanted to see me a lot… he seemed quite committed. WIth time I saw some issues… he didn’t want to meet my family and said it was too soon… I was ok with this and thought what was the rush? He didn’t hang out with my friends– ever. There were some other little signs that I discussed with friends and family and got mixed messages as to what I should expect from someone I had only been dating 3 months at this point.
At what time can you expect someone’s actions to match their words when we are talking about long term commitments, that may build over time with trust and patience? I find myself picking on guys, bailing and saying obviously they are not committed enough too quickly at times, I date men who tend to tell me that I need to relax a little more and sit back and let the relationship unfold… I am not sure if I am being manipulated or if really, I need to be patient as relationships do take time, and it takes time to build a bond with someone and for your lives to become more intertwined. As a result I question my own judgement… I know my type of attachment tends to demand high levels of enmenshment so it leaves me wondering sometimes if my demands are not being met, or if I am being too demanding.
I agree it’s important not just to look at what you have in common– movies, books and music– but isn’t there a period where you need to get to know each other perhaps before starting to push on these longer term issues?
This is BRILLIANT!!!
OMG! I will have to post several times because there was so much to uncover in this article….several aha moments for me. The first being….
“”Only problem is…he may be tall with a big dick, great in the sack, a love of cooking, politics, and great intellect with a decent bank balance, and the supposed liking of his peers, but he also has the emotional capacity of a stone, can’t commit, won’t commit, has other women, tells lies, and knows how to be decent to everyone but you.””
Am I ever guilty of this??? I can certainly rationalize the physical attraction I have for my exAC (because he was oh so easy to look at) but I never really considered the importance of the last part of this quote. I could always find a reason to like the guy (because he has a likeable personality) but never saw the character that made him such a d*ck! And more than that…what made him a d*ck to me!
I always find solice here. This site is my common sense and sanity. I find the more I come here and read about the wonderful women on this site and the fantastic words of wisdom from NML….the more I stand on my own and become a better person. You couldn’t have convinced me two years ago that I deserved a good man or a wonderful relationship but I can say that “ain’t me no more”!!!
Thanks NML!!
Good points here NML,
“Whilst you’re off chasing this ‘feeling’, your Mr Unavailable is chasing unattainable perfection which is how your behaviour ends up falling so in sync with theirs – both of you chasing people that don’t actually exist.†– YES, NML, I have been focusing on a feeling! He made my heart race, and he told me I did the same for him, even when he just saw that I was online. When I asked him how he felt about me, he said he had a “gut feeling†that we should be together. Funny, he didn’t seem to convey this nugget of information to his wife!!!!
“Instead of being focused on the feeling right now or just in those moments, you need to acknowledge that you may feel great now, but you feel like crap the rest of the time, the relationship is floundering, and he has done X,Y, Z that clearly demonstrate that something is very wrong.†Right again – although those feelings led to amazing “highsâ€, the rest of the time I felt pretty crappy. I really was like a drug addict waiting for a “fix†of attention from him, and feeling so horrible when I couldn’t get that fix. My work suffered, my relationships with friends and family suffered. Sure, we have 2 or 3 strong interests/hobbies in common. But how did I even think that being with him was compatible with a happy life for me???
“but he also has the emotional capacity of a stone, can’t commit, won’t commit, has other women, tells lies, and knows how to be decent to everyone but you.†– well, he was decent most of the time, but always did the expectation-managing tricks. He told me he never wanted to hurt me, but really, he hurt me, and himself, and his wife, and others, just by getting involved with me in the first place. NML, you are so right – I need to get over his dodgy azz and get compatible with healthier options!
Thank you NML!!! You’re saving my life!!! 🙂
This was awesome today. THANK YOU. Absolutely perfect 🙂
I asked my self today if my main need was for appreciation – if he was a good investment vehicle for that ?
the answer was a resounding “no”.
Sometimes I just have to be willing to open my eyes and keep them open. Not on the illusory feeling, as you point out, NML – but on the daily facts.
This last one wasa test – and I am passing it 🙂
I’m going to have to read and read this article several times over too, because there’s just so much in it that’s “speaking” to me I can’t take it in in one go. But this bit leapt out at me:
“…you’re looking at what you think you feel, what you’d like to feel, and what you think you will feel, whether he has a good job/likes to cook/cycle/listen to Pavarotti/is tall/short/good at his job/liked by the old lady down the street/kind to animals and kids/good sense of humour/poetic/struggling artist or musician and all that jazz…”
Oh yeah. That silly “feeling” that doesn’t last a month or two, but they are skilled at temporarily recreating it (to a lessening degree over time) when they need to.
How silly a reason for giving up life and wants is that?
And this: “Only problem is that he doesn’t show and behave in a way that says he loves, trusts, cares about, and respects you, plus he may be tall with a big dick, great in the sack, a love of cooking, politics, and great intellect with a decent bank balance, and the supposed liking of his peers, but he also has the emotional capacity of a stone, can’t commit, won’t commit, has other women, tells lies, and knows how to be decent to everyone but you.”
Now, I don’t actually go for the soulmate/twin flame nonsense; but this is what I’ve been doing – investing in men whose behaviours certainly don’t speak of love, commitment, care or anything else even half-decent; but who drop their fizzy lines when I see things are getting a bit flat.
Umm, time to stop, methinks.
Actually, since I’ve been reading this site, I’ve seen the games Mr EU plays AS CLEAR AS DAY. It’s all out there, right in the open, right under my nose (and he knows I can see it! Does it matter? Nope. He’s got new skirt/s in sight, lol, lining them up for his future “in the shower titillations”). What a dork.
But what a bigger dork I am for trotting behind him for several months. I’m not going to be a dork hereafter, I can tell you.
I’m actually of the notion at the moment that I so like my life without a r/s that I don’t believe I want another one anyway. But new r/s or not, I don’t want these jerks sniffing around me again anyway.
Best Regards, Leonine
– Thank you so much for this blog. I have been an avid reader for months now and it has helped me beyond words. Most, if not all , of the references to an EUM or AC describe my ex. I continue to be blown away by the fact that I am not alone. I thought that I was the only woman being treated this way and being made to feel as if I was the one making up stuff in my head about why I was so unhappy.
– Today, this particular paragraph got to me. “Only problem is that he doesn’t show and behave in a way that says he loves, trusts, cares about, and respects you, plus he may be tall with a big dick, great in the sack, a love of cooking, politics, and great intellect with a decent bank balance, and the supposed liking of his peers, but he also has the emotional capacity of a stone, can’t commit, won’t commit, has other women, tells lies, and knows how to be decent to everyone but you.”
Fits him like one of his custom suits he used to wear before he retired from the department. Mr. “I am God’s gift to women” with his black dyed hair and mustache.
Thanks to this blog and all of you fellow recovering victims of ass clownery and emotionally inept men, I see very clearly what a blind moron I was for thinking that “he really does care about me, he is just not demonstrative” BS!! I get so upset and angry for all of the BS I let him get away with but then I remind myself that I allowed it, me and no one else. Yes, he was a lying, womenizing,manipulating, secretive AC but I let him come back, time and time again and each time with less effort all because “ohhhhhh I love him” BS! Uggggggghhhhhhh.
– I am the epitamy of the fall back girl and didn’t even know it until I came here to visit and learn. But alas, I couln’t take it anymore I was so miserable, I couln’t sleep, consentrate and hating the feeling of blind jealousy….oh, but I sure ate though (gained 20 lbs and more reason for him not to love poor me, I though then). Finally, as I had done so many, many times before, I sent him an e-mail letting him know that I wanted him to leave me alone since he didn’t really want to be with me on my terms only his. The difference this time though, was the fact that I told him that I knew that he was living with a woman and stated her name. In fact, he bought a vacation with this woman in Florida.
– NC for 7 months now but I have to admit he has not tried to contact me. I wonder what went through his mind as he read that e-amail?. I think of him each and every day but the tears don’t flow as often anymore. I will get better each passing day because you see….I do matter, I am a wonderful human being and I love me 🙂
ps…lost the 20lbs and I feel and look like Tony the Tiger grrrrrreat!!
– Thank guys, muahhhhhhh.
This site is my therapy – it lifts me out of the gloom and into reality, making me face my deepest innermost wrenching feelings that I don’t wanna face but know is there all along. THANK U SOOOOOOOOOOO MUCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Addicted to/chasing the “feelings” – pretty much recaped my latest relationship (online/long distance/never met, together 6+ months, broke off over a week ago, NC for 6 days – he left 3 vm message saying “i love you, i miss u, blah blah blah” – don’t feel like returning it yet). I lived each week to talk to him nightly, to hear his voice, shared our dreams, talked about everything, phone sex, at times he would read to me until i fall asleep, sometimes leaving our cells on all night just to wake up and know he’s on the other end in the morning…so sweet, so in love/lust never went a day without thinking of him.
Then it became obvious the last few Sundays…he would never pick up on Sundays…evening or night…his excuse – went out and forgot cell at home – 3 Sundays straight- puleeezzzzzeeeee!!!!! (My gut instinct though he denies it: Sunday is the other chic’s day. She gets Sundays. I get the other 6 days. Sorry dude, not good enough!!!! I DON’T SHARE!!!!)
Now that I remove myself, he’s finally realizing his world is boring with the sunday side chic. Still love him sooooooooooooooo much and heart breaking from missing him sooooooooooooo muchhhhhhhhhhhh…but….but….if he loves me as he says he does, why isn’t he sending me flowers to make up for his half-assed behavior??? Why isn’t he calling incessantly each day (3 voicemails, that’s it????)!!! Why isn’t he begging and pleading and recklessly pursuing me???!!! That’s what men are supposed to do!!! That’s why God created men!!! To pursue, to chase, to take out the trash, to mow the lawn, to fix anything and everything that’s broken, to change flat tires, to pay the mortgage, to paint, to install broken dishwasher, and 100 other things we women can’t and aren’t made/meant to do!!!!
@Morning Coffee – I don’t have time to into this cos I have to go to work. It’s both a pity and a shame that you never met him because that might have shattered the illusion more. Why isn’t he? You’re not reading properly honey, HE CAN’T he is emotionally screwed – emotionally bankrupt. He knows the script to a certain point then he’s stymied.
Read NML’s book 🙂
As to the rest of the post and people’s reactions – well … I agree, this is SO full of lightbulbs going off I have to think really thoroughly about it. Wonderful.
Oh yes the other thing … whilst he was blowing so very very hot and so so into you I can pretty safely guarantee someone else was sobbing her heart out about him. Really really think about that one next time you are missing how “sweet and special” he was because I certainly find it a tonic. My longed for days are days when he knew full well others were pining for him – it took going back there to see him for the scuzzpit he actually is, regardless of him loving and being kind to animals and being able to stay friends with his ex (to their surprise by all accounts … are you seeing it too ladies, my hindsight epiphanies?)
Metgirl, I love your comment, you spot on!
My EUM is my dream man (black hair, brown eyes, Banker, who drives Porsche), but he is not “ready” to commit, but still attracts me! Please, dont get me wrong, I am not into his wealth, as he is not generous at all, but because he is my “type”…Silly really, and yes, I do have chemistry with him and he is “so chaming”, thats why I keep coming back!!!
MorningCoffee,
If I were you, I would meet him at least…I had on-line “relationship” once, and in my imagination, he was a “Right man”, but when we actually met, he was not the guy who I imagined…
Good, that your guy start to show his “true colours” even before your face-to-face meeting, so maybe you dont need to meet him after all…Good luck!
@Alika – I read about your guy and I don’t even need to see or meet him to know the type – I bet he is generous to himself and I bet he is generous to girls who are aloof towards him! I am very wary of “charming” these days – after all, I know I can be extremely charming when I want to be, I recognise those own traits in myself as part of my unavailability … I just don’t manifest it in the horrors these people pull.
I agree with you that MorningCoffee definitely should have met this guy – not now!! Too late now … better to take a cue from the experience of others. In my case, I was actually ill when I got there and the level of emotional investment I’d put in made me determined to see past the screaming red flags. Plus, I was there for four days so I made the best of it that I could under the circumstances. Therefore I got to watch a lot of TV and my romantic dinner out was at O HARE AIRPORT. I even forgave that … and he was making all the right noises even then but it wasn’t right, there was an undercurrent of sadness to the whole thing. I consider that he never met “me” because I couldn’t be me … I sure as hell met someone other than the “cute sweet funny” guy I had loved so much.
“These dipsticks just aren’t that fricking passionate or exciting!”
That’s true. The AC was actually very boring and I suspect didn’t have a whole lot going on. I think this was why he avoided any real conversation or interaction. He had nothing much to contribute. How odd that I thought there was something “wrong” with me (“knows how to be decent to everyone but you”) when the truth is, he knew he had nothing to offer. But his behavior made me feel off-kilter, and there was something exciting about feeling unsure.
Not now though: Feeling unsure feels very bad.
What I’d like to add to “my type” criteria is solid ground from day one. When the EUM/AC in my life flaked, he basically did a 180 and negated everything he had spent years claiming to be. Said he had only pretended to be my friend etc etc. Then came back again like nothing had happened. That’s a destabilizing technique, and thats where he crossed a line with me.
I am an old lady folks, and right around the same time my teen had her first romantic interest. She’s a bit like me, does not need to have a man in her life. But she liked this friend a lot, they are both smart kids, and they started spending time together outside of their group and it got a bit physical. She said they were “cuddle buddies”, and I thought this a bit odd, but my daughter explained they just wanted to be friends who would cuddle. I noted to her this was strange and non committal, and told her to watch how she was feeling. I have always preached to never get sexually involved till everything really feels right and mercifully she listens to me.
So the ” cute” cuddle buddy thing was going along OK for her till he asked somebody else to prom, and still continued the cuddle buddy thing.
Within a week she was so grumpy and mean and I saw my eight year EUM experience unfold before my eyes with my ” little girl ” Thank god for this site cluing me in to all the facets of the EUM experience. Because of my grasp of the whole thing I was quickly able to help her sort out all her confused feelings about herself and the boy, and helped her see it as a learning lesson.
She got to see how not having some pretty honest and serious standards could make her feel bad. Not to make light of the teenager’s life, but her experience was like a version of EUM- lite.
I am going to now talk with her about this subject of these posts.
What I think is our type should be the one that makes me feel good and secure that lets us know we are standing on firm solid stable ground together. The opposite of a roller coaster ride.
Thanks for all the insights NML and posters.
aphrogirl,
I think that’s the bigger importance of these articles… that our daughters can be taught better than we ever were and start off with the right knowledge.
Leonine
Hear hear Leonine, that’s wonderful aphrogirl. Well not wonderful that your daughter got messed about so early but … maybe it is great cos it is before the time when major damages set in quite so hard.
It’s certainly great that she’ll be able to read stuff like NML’s site BEFORE she starts her “relationship career”, I believe. Like Butterfly says, “before the time when major damage sets in quite so hard”. Yup.
Let her read every last word, aphrogirl. Let’s have the next generation of women going forward with their eyes wide open. I know I’m already teaching some of it (the age-relevant stuff) to my 10 year old daughter.
love, Leonine.
Morning Coffee,
When you wrote about the “left the cell at home” excuse, I had forgotten that was a big one with my guy (who was married, but supposedly getting divorced), so after awhile, I stopped calling him which led to an e-mail relationship mainly and we saw each other sometimes, but no more phone. Ouch, I remember thinking that most guys, especially musicians, don’t leave their cell phones at home, so I finally resigned and realized he was out with his wife and not picking up. It helped to know that, though, because I could finally admit I was being lied to and get myself out of a bad situation.
Also, for those of you who are gaining insight and are able to better arm and educate your daughters, that is awesome! I just want to let you know that I have two sons, one is 19 and one is 16, and they both have their first girlfriends, and they are totally committed to them, they don’t look at other women, call their girls every night, etc… I, too, have been able to use info from this site to make sure they are educated about the proper way to treat girls! So, let your daughters know that there still are a few good men out there. 🙂 This post is wonderful, and for awhile I was feeling “healed” and wasn’t reading as much, but then I missed all the valuable info! Thank you, NML.
My ex EUM randomly turned his phone off one night. Since we were long distance and called one another every night, the phone was primary contact. I woke up in the middle of the night one time and I normally call him if that happens, his phone was completely off. I asked him why, and he said “he just felt like turning it off”. I wish that all the time I was with him he would’ve just admitted to cheating instead of having me tread and wonder.
Tch. If he was going to lie why not actually lie and say the battery was dead? (Often true in my case 🙂 ).
Just goes to show that there’s often not even THAT much going on under the bonnet.
BTW I now know how long I have been NC, it is six weeks, I only realise this cos of a reply to a mail I had from another friend (saw it all in the thread). I also saw another pearl in there, that he had said to me “Just because I am not seeing you doesn’t mean I am not thinking of you”. Yeah right.
Reading this post (along with others) helps me get through these unpredictable day. One moment I’m fine and cool as a cucumber, the next I start recalling those wonderful “moments” we shared and that fuzzy feeling I’m longing for. But then the brakes hit the peddle when I read your post! It balances me out, and brings my mind back and centers me. It’s practice, and before I know it, it’s going to come as second nature. Amazing. It’s been an incredible help since having NC since being dumped officially via email the day after my birthday a little more than a week ago. I subsequently removing him off of my Facebook page (it felt like shutting the door on his face, because he is such an avid user, and that’s how we met). It would be so much more difficult doing it alone. It’s like therapy or going back to school and taking a class in EUMs and ACs with fellow students who are or have been in the same boat. Thanks for being there for all of us who wouldn’t know who or where to turn to. Cheers! x
Err, I meant to say ‘I hit the breaks..” but you already figured that out. I’m looking forward to the next installment. Well-written, and though out!
@Morning Coffee…
This is every bit as important as raising our daughters to know better – raising the sons to act better.
Well done you.
love, Leonine
@Butterfly – 6 weeks NC – that’s great! I would have guessed even longer based on your comments and the insight you seem to have. I have just passed the 3 week NC mark.
“Just because I am not seeing you doesn’t mean I am not thinking of you†– I used to be pleased when my exEUM said he thought of me a lot, but recently I got to wondering, what is it exactly that he’s thinking about? How wonderful I am, or what happened during one of our “encounters”. Kind of gave me a new perspective.
@MsBliss – “It’s like therapy or going back to school and taking a class in EUMs and ACs with fellow students who are or have been in the same boat. Thanks for being there for all of us who wouldn’t know who or where to turn to.” – yes, I feel like that sometimes too. This is our wonderful support group, our “FBG Anonymous” meeting, our daily readings for a very important course – not just about EUM’s and AC’s but about how to care for ourselves, treat ourselves with love and respect, and increasing our chances at personal happiness. A very worthwhile course indeed, and tuition-free! Thanks NML!!!
Thanks again, NML. After reading this and a couple of things that have happened lately, I see that going on FEELINGS is exactly what I’ve been doing. It is embarassing to me now. I’m not a stupid person and yet I’ve based 3 years of my life on just feelings for this stupid man. Not only did I not get ACTION – I did not even get WORDS.
Is it the mixed-messages women get regarding going with how you feel? trusting your feelings? My FEELINGS betrayed me. They were all wrong – all wrong.
This week my ex AC has followed his usual pattern of trying to chit-chat with me after about 30+ days of NC. After really looking at what he’s been doing and reading your article – I see how I’ve fallen for this act of his every time.
The guy never tells me he misses me, no apologies, no explanations, never even looks upset about what’s been going on – he just pretends nothing’s happened and cherrily goes on. And instead of me seeing this, I put MY FEELINGS on it – I try to get into his head. I act like I know how he feels, based on how I feel.
I (used to) take his approaching me to mean that he did miss me and was sorry. I never waited to even hear the words! I wanted it to be true so bad, I’d go back. For what? Nothing different. More of the same – or even less.
I gotta tell you I’m feeling pretty self-defeated right now.
These dipsticks just aren’t that fricking passionate or exciting!â€
That’s true. The AC was actually very boring and I suspect didn’t have a whole lot going on. I think this was why he avoided any real conversation or interaction. He had nothing much to contribute. How odd that I thought there was something “wrong†with me (â€knows how to be decent to everyone but youâ€) when the truth is, he knew he had nothing to offer. But his behavior made me feel off-kilter, and there was something exciting about feeling unsure.
Not now though: Feeling unsure feels very bad.
TJ I could have written this myself!! I wondered how I even got interested in him when he was persuing me.He is way too lazy for my taste, has zero friends or interest and passions in life. He had nothing interesting to share. BORING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
However, I was madly attracted to him physically to the point that when we first met I had a moment. Just when he was about to pay the tab at the restaurant. I firmily believed he was going to be the father of my kids! This is how attracted to him I was, still am!! Is that crazy of what?
@annied
“no apologies, no explanations, never even looks upset about what’s been going on†– this sounds soooo familiar! My exEUM would sometimes give an excuse about why he behaved poorly, but as far as communication went, he also seemed to “pretend nothing happened and cheerily went onâ€. Once, I told him he seemed to be hot and cold towards me (and this was *before* I found this site) in an email. His next email didn’t address that concern at all, and when I called him on it, he said “Oh, I was just hoping it wasn’t trueâ€. Deny, deny, deny – I think it is a common coping mechanism of these EU men. And I don’t think we will ever be able to get into their heads to figure out how they feel! I think it’s safe to assume they feel very strongly – about *themselves*
“I gotta tell you I’m feeling pretty self-defeated right now.†– I’m sure many of us here have been chasing these feelings, so know you are not alone. And now you have even more insight, so have more power to deal with future EU behaviour in a healthy way. So not defeated at all!!!!
@MsBliss
I feel similar to you-some days I am okay, but there are others where I can hardly function. I thought we were happy-I knew I was. Clearly I was the only one in the dark. I am not on Facebook (I have refused to join) but my guy was. Like yours, he spent alot of time on Facebook. To me that is a huge warning sign of the inability to communicate directly. Terminating a relationship by email or some other electronic communication has to be the lowest of the low. This happened to me-as I am writing these words I am reminding myself of how crazy I must be to want someone back that did not even have the decency to face me to even say there was a problem. (So glad work is empty today, so no one can see me crying.!) In any other aspect of my life, if someone treated me like that, they would be history!!
Stay strong-we will all come out more knowledgeable and stronger people-just waiting on that to happen.:)
What I’ve figured out is this: The AC always made me feel bad about myself… nothing specific, but a generalized feeling that I wasn’t enough or good enough. And that feeling propelled me to … dress better, go to the gym, work harder, be more outgoing, look prettier, try harder, be more creative, be more interesting, accomplish more….I had to prove I was good enough. Or become good enough.
Without him in my life, I don’t have that same “drive”. It was a type of negative energy that drove me, but I liked the “high” I was getting from it.
In my recovery group, we learn to get used to this “flat” feeling and not pursue any type of high. We have to learn to be ok with feeling calm and settled, not get off chasing drama. Their bullsh*t, illusions, and false promises is nothing but drama.
@Meant to be Happy
You are so right, we will never be able to “get into their heads and figure out how they feel” They don’t have any feelings, or even on the slight chance that they do, they have no clue how to manage them and how their actions impact other people. Wonder how the manage to avoid becoming involved with people like themselves?
annied, you wrote:
“I (used to) take his approaching me to mean that he did miss me and was sorry. I never waited to even hear the words! I wanted it to be true so bad, I’d go back. For what? Nothing different. More of the same – or even less.
I gotta tell you I’m feeling pretty self-defeated right now. ”
Annied, don’t feel defeated..you are at the bottom of the dark pit, in the first stage of getting back the light and real victory. The second and third words of yours I copied above say it all. You USED TO want that marginal behavior.
The brain has such capacity for illusion with these relationships that it takes a good bit of time to get out of the fog of delusion. I’ve now entered my fourth month and every day what I want to give and get in a relationship, and what I will not accept, gets clearer and clearer.
Pace yourself , the haul out of the pit is not an easy climb, but its so worth it.
– the online ex saga of 6 months continued –
Missing him (or do i miss the “feelings”?); a week+ since, not returning his 3 voicemails, don’t wanna give him the satisfaction (giving him the i’m-here-but-you-can’t-reach-me attitude!), plus not wanting to hear a bunch of senseless “i miss you, i love you” nonsense; if you love me, SHOW ME!!!! I’M VISUAL!!!
I’m 35 (been in long term relationships, has a 9 yr old daughter); he’s 42 never married…longest relationship was lived w/ someone for 1+ year (that was 5 years ago – she cheated on him w/ her boss- she begged and pleaded and grabbed his legs so he couldn’t walk out the door – he left; no one permanent since…just strings of fleeting physical relationships). A man w/ many memories when it comes to life and love, parents passed away, always on his own, heart harden, unable to trust, thinks the world is full of “bad apples” with their own agenda, so kind-hearted wouldn’t harm a fly, intellectual, whacky sense of humor – makes me laugh all the time:) Me – thinks the world is full of wonders and goodness, things usually just fall into place for me. He was baffled. I was smitten. It was 6 months in a sea of emotional highs/love/lust and many sleepless nights on cell…I have no regret; he will always remain in my heart (regardless of the finale).
This morning, snail mailed him a letter – ” You…wonderful, amazing you…your words, your thoughts, your voice, your character… everything about you touched my heart in a way I’ve never felt (perhaps once at age 18…a mere school girl whose heart would break for the very first time). You came into my life so unexpectedly, so profoundly. Together like a beautiful dance, my eyes sparkled, my heart leaped, my soul fluttered, everything around me became meaningful and musical. I was smitten…so in love with you I could barely eat, sleep, or think. I think you felt this too. Etc…”
In Conclusion, the letter was an ultimatum, told him, if he still wants to be together “to stop seeing the other person COMPLETELY!!!!”.
And that I love him so much BUT can’t/won’t be with him in this situation. If he truly loves me, shape up or don’t let the door hit ya on the way out!!!
This is a man who HATES ultimatum! Wondering how he will react to the letter……hmmmmmmm……
Going out of town, rented a cabin w/ families this weekend…will think of him upon return;)
@Penny I don’t think Facebook per se is a bad thing, like anything else it is a tool and it depends how you use it. Mine has friends I used to work with in the past, family and friends I work with now but not many people and invariably it’s just silly fun things. I can’t see myself using it for romantic purposes.
@Meant – thanks babes! I’ve actually been really struggling the last few days but I have also been VERY VERY hormonal the last few days and I truly think this is linked. Yesterday and today have been great days, nothing special has happened other than getting to know some people better (not romantically, friends) and meeting some new friends too. Would I be enjoying this if I was thinking about him? Nope 🙂
@Penny-you are right that Facebook is a tool, and that like any tool, it can be used for beneficial purposes or not. However I am now (and will be in the future) suspicious of people that rely do heavily on Facebook for communication purposes. Yes, it can be handy to keep up with family, friends, classmates, etc. However, IMO, Facebook (and other social networking tools) are heaven sent to those EU people that are unable to connect with people. It allows them to never develop any real connections with real people. Can you really be “friends” with 500 people? No, my guy did not have 500 friends (there are those that do) but the web 2.0 way of communicating with people let’s them take the easy way out-not having to actually “face” the person you are hurting-deliberately or not. Delivering devastating news to someone like that is a convenient way of taking the easy way out-childish and immature. If you are an adult, behave like one. Don’t mean to sound bitter, but I do know “what goes around comes around.”
Sorry, I meant @Butterfly. Gee, I am really out of it today-responding to myself.
Hey Ladies! How about that Jessica Simpson eh? Just read the new US Weekly and she and Tony Romo broke up cuz she was pressuring him to marry her…now apparently she and John Mayer are “texting.” Talk about a FBG…and EUM! Just a bit of fun for yas!
Also, speaking of children, I think my daughter is a EUW! She has about 4 guys that she’s juggling…including a fiance. She broke up with him recently to have a fling with someone else, but she’s thinking about going back just to have someone take care of her. I told her she can’t be treating people that way – that she probably broke her fiance’s heart by calling it off. And she was so callous. She said, “Oh, he’s not that hurt! He’ll take me back anytime I want.” Just goes to show I guess that it can be women too, who have their fallback guys. And she seems to think that because he “loves” her so much and will take her back, that’s evidence her behavior didn’t REALLY hurt him too much. Interesting!
LOL Penny no worries – and I agree with you. My ex was obsessed with the number of friends he had on his, and Linked In, and Twitter and who knows what else, and Yahoo Answers, and being top rated on Google if you search for his name (it’s safe to say he has nothing in the way of understanding his own personal boundaries, and “fame” is all he craves the shallow little … ahem!
Anyone with hundreds of friends I automatically think is either very insecure or is playing one of the applet games which need a high number of co-users. I admit I have some people on mine just to play Farm Town lol – I don’t talk to them tho – the people on mine are people I spent time with RL sometime or another.
However both my ex EUM are not on my Facebook any more 🙂 Yay!
Amazing stuff – thanks for kicking us in the butt out here – telling it like it is. I spent 3.5 years slamming head against the wall – reasoning with him about why he shouldn’t be surfing adult sex hook-up sites while living with me, shouldn’t be meeting other women for drinks while I’m at school, shouldn’t be the town shoulder that divorcee’s cry on, shouldn’t be burying their number in his phone under some guy’s name. Oh but he built stuff for me! Oh but he fixed leaky faucets! For crying out loud – where were my values here? Is having a Mr. Fix-It more important than having Mr. Respectful? I should have my head examined. Argh.
@aphrogirl said: “When the EUM/AC in my life flaked, he basically did a 180 and negated everything he had spent years claiming to be. Said he had only pretended to be my friend etc etc. Then came back again like nothing had happened.”
@annied said: “The guy never tells me he misses me, no apologies, no explanations, never even looks upset about what’s been going on -he just pretends nothing’s happened and cherrily goes on.”
@Meantto be happy said: “My exEUM would sometimes give an excuse about why he behaved poorly, but as far as communication went, he also seemed to ‘pretend nothing happened and cheerily went on’â€.
My EUM would also say things to create distance and then “act like nothing happened” in the very next conversation. Whenever I called him out on it and reacted, he would act shocked as though the distancing conversation never took place and as though the relationship was at the pre-distancing-conversation level. It was really bizarre.
Anyone have any idea of what the selective amnesia is all about in these clowns?? Sometimes I truly think my ex EUM really did have amnesia with regard to what he said. It’s either that or he should win an Oscar for the best actor award!
One time when I immediately called him out on his verbal distancing he said, “Were you upset before the conversation?” I said, “No.” He responded, “Then we can just go back to where it was before the conversation.” I said, “No we can’t.” Truly bizarre thinking on his part!!
Whenever this happened my thought was “I’m baffled” and my feeling was “confusion.” Although I enjoy the challenge of figuring out that which baffles me, I am not compatable with living in a state of continual confusion.
@Serena – my ex (I am noticing I am not feeling the need to call him an ex-ass … interesting … am I caring less? I am not feeling anything either way tbh about him so he doesn’t need that level of investment? Cool!) used to say “That memory of yours will get me into trouble”.
I found your post interesting in that I never had that, but I did have “let’s not rehash this thing again” when discussing something for the first time, and whenever ANY plans were needed it was “let’s not discuss that NOW” and snarkiness …
@butterfly – that’s great you’re meeting new friends and getting to know some people better. You have a lot of courage being in a different country and “starting from scratch” as far as a social network is concerned – must be an awesome growth and learning experience. Oh, and I can soo relate to the hormonal effects – even those of us that are 40+ can’t escape that, lol
@Serena
“Sometimes I truly think my ex EUM really did have amnesia with regard to what he said.” YES, I have thought this too! I would mention things my exEUM said earlier, and he would have completely forgotten! He just kept mentioning his poor memory, but puhlease, it got ridiculous at times. I really do put it down to denial, and possibly because he just “said what he thought I wanted to hear” at the time of the original conversation – therefore, as it was said to placate me, it wasn’t really “from the heart” so maybe easy for him to forget. But that’s just my theory.
In your piece about him wanting to go back to you not being upset, I think that’s a kind of denial too. He wanted to *avoid* your being upset, as he didn’t want to/ know how to *deal* with it. I can totally relate to the confusion you felt, and I must say that I don’t miss that confusion since we broke up 3 weeks ago!
To paraphrase Penny above, “they have no clue how to manage *feelings*, and how their actions impact other people”. So their way of “managing” uncomfortable feelings in themselves and others may be to deny, avoid, “conveniently” forget. Does that make sense?
Ah, but to be perhaps a little harsh to EUs and ACs…. I couldn’t care less what they avoid/manage/deny/see/forget/remember/hear/deal with/feeeeel…
…they know what they’re doing – they do it often enough! They deserve to be dumped and stay dumped.
Let’s make no excuses for them. They are harmful and nasty and they couldn’t live as long as they do without knowing that much about themselves, surely to God.
As I say, to be harsh: I wish them the worst they can bring on themselves, lol. Maybe that will wake them up to their behaviours.
But to the rest of you/us… love, Leonine
Trouble is, they trample along the way. If they were just hurting themselves …
@Meant – this sounds almost like some sort of narcissist wound to my admittedly untrained eye. Did he suddenly “snap” at you, especially if it was at a time when you were being nice? Thank you for your kind words, it can be very hard being here but as you have said it is a marvellous learning curve and how many women in their 40s get the chance to start over? I am truly blessed 🙂 As for courage, not sure I feel brave so much as scared silly sometimes but the good does definitely outweigh the bad and having the internet makes things much better.
@Butterfly
Well, I must correct myself about online means of communication. This site has been really helpful. None of my friends have any idea how devastated I am-I feel this is the only place I can say how I feel. It helps that no one knows who I am-so for that the internet is helpful I have never been married, and never really missed it. I thought I found someone that wanted the same things I did-meaning a life together. As you say, it is hard for a woman in her 40’s but hearing some of these stories can make you just want to watch television by yourself for the rest of your life.
Holy cow. Out of everything I’ve read on this site, this series of posts is resonating the closest to home for me. It’s completely shifting my perception of “type” and “compatibility”. My “make or break” attributes I seem to always look for in a guy (makes me laugh, financially successful, tall, likes the same movies/music, etc) are suddenly becoming so shockingly stark in comparission with the emotional void I feel when I’m with these men. Thinking back to the last guy I dated…my God…it’s like I’m seeing it all clearly for the first time. It was EXACTLY as you put it, NML: We were so “connected”, yet at the end of the day, he has the “emotional capacity of a stone, can’t commit, won’t commit, has other women, tells lies, and knows how to be decent to everyone but [me].” YES! I get it! NOTHING matters if he is unable to have two feet in the relationship with me, and share mutual interest. It’s about more than just sharing MOMENTS, which is all that I’ve ever had with these dips. THANK YOU SO MUCH for this clarity.
NML, thank you for another wonderfully insightful post. Reading these posts truly helps me stay focused and reinforces a lot of positivie affirmations and thoughts I’ve brought inot my life regarding relationships and how I want tobe treated in them. Please keep the articles coming.
NML, your blog is definitely good for me. It lifts my spirits and makes me even more committed to having what I want.
Just recently I had 2 exes try to contact me. One is a weasel and keeps leaving love notes on my car and the other one sends an email.10 or 15 years ago or even 3 years ago I would have reconsidered dating these bozos. NO MORE.
I too had a Facebook profile. One of my exes was one of my friends on that site. I dated him 10 years ago. I broke it off with him because he was a cheap and miserly bastard and now I think he was cheating on me when we dated. I didn’t like him when I dated him, why would I want him as a friend on FB? I deleted him. God that felt good. I also deleted a friend who was a flake and a user. That felt good too. I finally deactivated my FB account, I found it too juvenile for my taste.
I haven’t dated in a while. Sometimes I get sad about it, but if it means I’ll go back to my old dating patterns of getting walked on, I’ll stay single forever. However, I know that’s not the case.
I can honestly say I have ZERO desire to reconnect with any of my exes. I have to ask myself this. If someone can be away from you, 3, 6 months or even a year or two, how interested in you could they be?
Janet I feel just like toy right now!, I’m deleting my FB too, and people from my msn that don’t do me any good!. my kind of “ex”, because right now I really don’t know what that was wanned to stay friends with me, and he wanned me to help him with stuff, I told him I couldn’t because I didn’t like the way he behaved with me, and that felt good! at the begining at least LOL!!!!, but I feel i kept my pride! he wanned to have me hanging in there!!! so NO. Right now I don’t want guys is my life!, I don’t feel healthy enough (emotionally), because is I chose this guy before and LOVE him (or them for the others), I’m no Ok, I need to love my self more and more!, and thats what I’m doing right now dating ME!, we have to fall in love with us first! that way we will know how much we are worth!!! and we won’t settle for any Bullsh** type of guy!!!!
Leonine,
“I couldn’t care less what they avoid/manage/deny/see/forget/remember/hear/deal with/feeeeel…†– thanks for bringing the focus back to us, not them.
“…they know what they’re doing – they do it often enough!†– do you really think so? I’m not sure many of them have great insight. Kind of like a young child, who speaks her mind, telling a store clerk that their haircut makes them look like a cocker spaniel (I saw that happen) – completely oblivious to how their words could hurt. But then again, perhaps I am making excuses for them again – they *are* adults, after all. I need to develop some healthy cynicism, perhaps.
@Butterfly – “this sounds almost like some sort of narcissist wound†– not sure what you’re referring to here – the forgetting of previous conversations by the EUM?
“Did he suddenly “snap†at you, especially if it was at a time when you were being nice?†– my ex never really “snapped†at me – more like said something sarcastic when I was trying to talk about something that was important to me. E.g., when I was telling him a couple months ago that I wasn’t sure I could continue seeing him since I felt guilty for possible consequences to innocent people, he said something like “oh, is this when I’m supposed to beg you not to leave?†or something like that. Did your ex snap at you?
@Penny – “None of my friends have any idea how devastated I am†– I am in the same boat. I love the anonymity the internet provides, as I can truly say how I feel without fearing repercussions. But please don’t just watch television alone for the rest of your life!!!! As a twist on the old saying, we must “learn and liveâ€!!! There are people with whom we are truly compatible out there who can bring us joy!!!
Hi ladies (and the occasional gentleman),
Although this is my first time posting, I’ve been reading this site since late May (about 3 months after I had already decided to do “No Contact”) and I’ve found so much of what’s here to be incredibly helpful, supportive and just downright insightful. So, thank you for sharing your experiences and for serving as an unknowing support system…especially in those moments when I needed to know that I was not alone in having engaged in relationship insanity! I find that I’m in a much better place now emotionally and that both my self-confidence and relationship know-how have grown, but still, I like reading the site…it’s a worthy source for any man or woman in a relationship, so thanks NML; you put every other beauty and dating magazine to shame!
You see, I had never experienced anything like this before and just couldn’t understand what was going on. And, really, I still don’t understand, although I no longer care because I can say with 100% certainty that my life is so much better without him…He exhausted me emotionally and I didn’t like _it_ or the feeling that accompanied it, but, since I liked _him_ and we had oh so much in common, I was willing to see it through and finish what I had started since I was sure that he liked me, but wasn’t willing to admit it (it was a non-sexual LDR with me on the west coast of the US and him in eastern Europe; we had met last summer and stayed in touch after that–he initiated the continued contact) since it would be hard. In short, I was betting on potential, which was a big mistake as, when push came to shove and I suggested a visit after 6 months of steady communication (I’m talking emails, skype, chat, etc.), he told me that would be “impossible, impractical and just another im- word” (some words you just never forget…even if their capacity to hurt you fades with time). Needless to say, I was deeply hurt and basically cut things off then and there, although we did have one more conversation that sheds some light on what Leonine said in an earlier post about how “they know what they’re doing…they do it often enough.”
I agree with her completely, although I do think self-awareness can vary from person to person. But, still, if it’s an ingrained behavioral pattern, people do recognize it in themselves even if they don’t always actively acknowledge it or want to fix it. After I kind of lost it emotionally and told him (via email–this was his chosen mode of communication; though it seemed cold to me to do it in this manner, I was requesting nothing else after being told I couldn’t visit. He was never rejecting me again) that being a part of his life, given the circumstances, was impossible, we ended up having one final conversation, which was somewhat enlightening, yet somehow still extremely confusing and even surreal. Normal-whatever normal may be–people just don’t act this way.
He told me that he knew he was an a#%hole; this was “how it always was,” that he “leeched” off of everybody close to him and had little regard for other people’s feelings. He even went so far as to compare himself to Citizen Kane, saying he was an empty shameless flatterer who would do anything to have people feeling good about him (this was in response to my question as to why he would have expressed jealousy when he thought I was going out with somebody else if he wasn’t interested in me himself. I told him normal male friends don’t do these kinds of things as they cross a line. But the ultimate point was, this man-boy was not my friend; he even devalued my friendship and 6 months of communication, telling me that human interaction was important to everybody and that enjoying my conversation didn’t mean he wanted to start a romantic relationship). This was all in addition to a comment he had made a few months before (which I ignored, thinking that it didn’t apply to me; how we do love to think we’re “different”! Although, oddly enough, when I sensed how much deception had been going on the whole time, I asked him if I had been one of few or many…He told me “one of few, but not only. Although with you it’s unique and different…because I like talking to you more.” It was always about talking to me, rather than about liking me as a person, which isn’t good enough even if we’ve read the same books, studied the same thing, speak the same languages. Details for the delusional!! about how he alienates everybody close to him and the only thing he was good at was work.
The worst part was that I knew on some level that he was aware of his bad behavior and maybe even regretted it; he often spoke of how he was lonely and wanted to make connections with more people. But, he said that the outcome would always be that he would hurt both them and himself in the process. In that last conversation as he said these things (and, who knows? He may have been attempting to manipulate me), I asked if he had had an epiphany and would be less self-serving in the future. And the weirdest/saddest/most baffling thing was that even after all that, his response was “no, no real desire to be less of an asshole.” So, I do think these men know what they are doing; it’s just that they’re concerned only with their own limits and boundaries and couldn’t give two hoots about ours. I guess it’s how you can say and understand you’re an alcoholic, but not be willing to put down the bottle…and even occasionally get behind the wheel while under the influence.
Personally, even though I can’t help but pity him a little, I want him nowhere near me. That level of selfishness and recklessness doesn’t allow for positive and healthy interaction. More importantly, he’s not fit to shine my shoes and neither are any of these other emotionally unavailable men who have brought us collectively to this site.
@Butterfly — My ex-EUM snapped at me “out of the blue” on occasion over stupid meaningless things. The first time he did it I looked him straight in the eye and said: “Don’t be a dic&!” His jaw dropped and he got this grin on his face and said: “A whaaaattt???” So I repeated, “Don’t be a dic&!” I think it surprised him because he wasn’t used to hearing me swear and we rarely argued. For some reason getting his attention and saying this immediately whenever he snapped at me stopped him every time.
@Meant to be Happy — Regarding the selective amnesia, here’s an example but it may not be the best one — there were many. A few days after he moved he called me to chat, we expressed missing each other and talked about getting together after he got settled in. A few days later I called him. During the conversation I said: “I miss you. I’ll be happy when we see each other.” He responded with anger: “Well I can’t do anything about that. I’ve got my life here and things to look forward to and you’ve got your life there and I don’t know about seeing each other. If I come back for my bikes with (male friend) we’re just going to pick them up and go straight back.” I said, “Then why did you spend the entire week with me 24/7 before you left!?” He said, “I’m GRATEFUL for that week! I’m GRATEFUL for that week!! and if you’re going to react like this then I’m not going to see you when I come back for Easter (which was 3 weeks away).” I said goodbye, hung up and figured this was a breakup. (Somebody please tell me if I’m crazy for assuming this??!!). I called him that night and said: “If you were going to break up with me you could have done it respectfully and properly. I don’t think you’ve considered my feelings at all. I don’t think you care and now I’m beginning to wonder if you ever cared. I feel used and discarded.” I waited and waited and waited for a response. There was a 30 second dead silence (I kid you not) and then I said, “Are you there?” He said with a completely perplexed and anguished tone: “Yes, and I have absolutely no idea of where this is coming from!!” It was like the conversation that happened that morning never occured. Anyway, he weasled his way back into my life over Easter and I stupidly let him, not without protest though. Although I initially kept him at more than an arms length, he worked me for over four hours and eventually all those old wonderful “feelings” resurfaced. I should have known what an assclown he was at that point in time, kept my distance, cut him off in short order and never allowed him to re-enter my life!!
After months and months of trying to convince myself that my ex EUM had a shred of decency and trying to find a way to keep him in my life. I have to face the fact that he causes me nothing but pain. After reading the posts today – i realize how these men in all their variations delude themselves from seeing the havoc they wreak upon the lives of others. Which is at the crux of being EUM they choose/can’t (whatever) see their actions or the consequences – today i have officially stopped making excuses for him. It’s so ironic to hear him refer to his distant mother only looking out for herslef, and proceed to repeat the same behaviour.
Oh wow so many posts with so many great points.
My ex only started getting like this really towards the end, the being horrible when I was being loving. To me, this was the single most hurtful thing he could have done because he knew damned well about my past with my other ex (who is also a narcissist, I see now, and was manic depressive so I put the behaviour down to just his illness).
OK maybe I should post about that other ex, it’s pertinent here. Yeah he was beneath me, a fixer-upper, as the ex BEFORE that was aloof with me but ok with everyone else (“can treat everyone right except you” syndrome – in fairness everyone called him on this but to them too he’d just shrug … I left him, circumstantially, on Valentine’s Day, then he was the biggest victim until he got a new girlfriend then was trying to rub it in my face).
I am seeing a pattern as I type! However this ex in the UK sort of “attached” himself to me and over the years I can’t say he was never there for me – I think he was as “there” as it was possible for him to be. He was always looking to have other women involved and I went along with this in part as what he wanted them for was something kinky I didn’t want to really do and it didn’t involve actual sexual contact. When we split and I moved out of the country he has recently described this as “you were my world and you left me to die”.
This is taking on more meaning now, as I learn more about narcissism – I really do urge people who have had experiences with guys who MANIPULATE PEOPLE AROUND THEM AND WHO ARE ALL TAKE TAKE TAKE BE THAT WITH TIME MONEY OR INFLUENCE look up information on narcissistic personality disorder and then thank your lucky stars you are out of it – and maintain your NC.
@Serena – I wish I had said something like that to him, on one level, I suspect it would have re-engaged him. On the other hand … I am so glad I didn’t re-engage him! Your whole post just above sounds absolutely positively familiar – different MO but those distancing conversations, the tone … urgh!
@Wised-up: Your whole post spoke volumes to me (imagine that distance and him not saying about being friends, him talking about being together, wanting to wake up next to you every morning, being crazy about you, blowing hot hot hot for a long time with only the occasional ice cube and THEN being a dick? However this line spoke most: He told me “one of few, but not only. Although with you it’s unique and different…because I like talking to you more.â€
The reason this spoke most is that he was saying what he thought you wanted to hear whilst also applying his own criteria when looking for succour: in short, this strange comment is what gives Narcissistic Supply.
The reason our friends don’t understand is because they have never experienced it, and they tend to judge us negatively because they have never had someone do quite such a number on us. Most of us are mature women over 30 and when we were growing up the rules were different.
@Janet – lol, given circumstances and details I am wondering if you are the “someone I never told you about and who the feelings never really went away for” that made me boot him out of my attentions (I am still wondering now how the hell he ever got there?). Even if you are not then I am choosing to think that you are because your story made me smile and there WAS a Janet on his FB 🙂 He was so miserly … ok another snippet for this then, I went out to the States at my own cost. Whilst I was there – after being told “you better be prepared to be treated like a princess” (he knows full well I don’t like people spending money on me) and all this talk about the nice place he was taking me for dinner he cooked at home for me and wanted me to use the old very limp lettuce instead of the fresh stuff he had bought, and as I have said before the “dinner” ended up being getting some crap at OHare Airport. He is ashamed of that happening and said it was just “an error on his part”. He was ashamed of the whole visit actually and said he had been a terrible host (he had). So yes, Janet, the timing of this makes me smile esp as he had said that he was “just talking to her online at the moment I don’t know if anything will come of it” and “I have to admit my mind has been elsewhere”. Ha! He’s long long long off my Facebook (I took him off and re-added him three times total).
@Nanalinda good for you, breathing space is good for us women 🙂 Enjoy your time!!
@Penny – you won’t be sitting watching TV every night honey but equally that means you need to do something with your life. Got anything you’ve always wanted to do? Maybe you’d like to go to some nightschool classes or something? My niece (extremely happily married after a string of idiots) went to learn cake decorating and now is starting her own business, her husband is very proud of her.
@Leonine I agree that I they know what they are doing, they just don’t really understand the harm they cause. I love your posts 🙂
and finally (sorry to ramble) @ cece – I have no right at all to feel proud of you, but I do. I am so thrilled for you, to see what you have written and to feel the surge of your own personal power that it took to get you to that stage. I think I am there too – near enough – but I have to admit that I really really hope Janet has just blown my ex out because I would hate to think that he is out there doing the same thing again. The sad fact is that he will be – and we can’t do anything about that to people we know.
We CAN get people here to read this sight, Natalie’s amazing stuff and everyone else’s journeys and we do know, at least, that there’s a resource there. Natalie, woman, please get yourself some publicity!!
Butterfly, unless he lives in California it wouldn’t be. Wouldn’t that be a hoot if I outed this cheap bastard?
We met and dated in 1999. 10 years ago! I had that FB page for a couple of years and he wanted to be a friend. After reading his stupid wall posts I just got sick of looking at him and deleted his sorry ass.
The ex who is sending me emails and leaves missed calls dated me last year. After a month of his stupidity I dumped him as well. He tried calling me and I refused to call him back. He then started following me on Twitter and I blocked his ass.
The weasel who is more than likely the culprit who is leaving love cards on my car is a man I dated 2 years ago who had his mother, his ex-wife and all his exes up his butt as well.
The only thing that works for me is the following. I have one g/f who thinks I’m too strict and that I’ll probably never get what I want. Yet this is the same friend who’s in-laws treat her like crap for the last 15 years so she’s not one to talk. I’ve told her doing the other way (being overly accommodating, understand and forgiving got me walked on). Now it’s my way or the highway.
I don’t call men and I ONLY return calls if it involves a change of plans.
I never pay for dates or plan dates. That’s the man’s job and it separates the wheat from the chaff, the doers vs. the talkers.
If I’m out in public, a bar, singles event, etc….and some man starts talking to me? If he’s not asked me for my phone number within 20 minutes I move on and mingle with others. I’m not interested in having a long philosophical conversation with some dude, I want dates that eventually lead to marriage. I have no time to waste. Haven’t you ladies ever been to a club and danced or made out with a guy all night and he never calls you again or not at all.
Multi-date. Until a man puts a ring on my finger, I’m free to date others.
Absolutely NO SEX. At LEAST until engagement. Sex too soon creates all kinds of problems and allows you to overlook things that you should run from.
All I do on a date is be nice, smell nice and dress nice, that’s it! We women talk too much on a date, we need to really listen to get what they’re all about. Men are romantic and sweet if you’re the one. If you’re not the one and you don’t give it up, they’ll eventually leave to be with someone who has no standards or the woman they’re truly interested in waiting on.
I have a very short amount of patience for nonsense. I used to tolerate and swallow a lot of crap. I guess it just takes getting older and having some bad experiences to wake you up. Once you have that awareness, you never go back.
LOL Janet – damn – nope, several time zones away.
HOWEVER …
Please be careful not to swing the pendulum the other way. Imagine you were a woman reading a MAN writing all those things, there’s quite a few red flags of unavailability showing. Have you read NML’s book? Time is probably not running out for you and whilst I totally agree that there’s no way to waste time on losers I think you are going to alienate people and might well be pushing AWAY the very kind of man who might really love you. Ask for your number within 20 minutes? Whatever happened to a relationship growing and blooming naturally hon?
You’re on the dating cycle and you need to break that fast because it is FULL of EUMs and EUW and that’s what I see and sense in your post. I really don’t want to sound harsh or criticising, I hope it doesn’t seem that way, I just know that there’s been so much support and tough love on this site that I’d feel I’d not contributed if I didn’t give some feedback.
The middle ground is somewhere in between. Either that, or I will never meet anyone truly for me because that’s what I want – someone who will meet me half way, will do their share and bring something to the party in their own right.
Just spare a grain of empathy for those guys who might be a little bit shy!
I’m at the stage of sitting right back and not wanting to care, but I think I agree
oops!
I think I agree about sex. As my mother used to say “Who buys the cow when they’ve drunk the milk”. Charming, but maybe it goes to show that men and women haven’t actually changed much at all, society has just let our standards slip.
Lol, just when the chat is heating up and we are getting down to the nitty gritty of cows and milk and things…. I have to go on my holidays!
Off to the seaside with 10 year old daughter for two weeks, so I’ll “see” what’s happening when I get back.
Meanwhile, Happy EU/AC Free Days everyone.
love, Leonine.
@Leonine – have a wonderful holiday with your daughter!!!
@WisedUp – thank you for sharing your story. I’m sorry to hear you were involved with a self-identified a**hole!!! Perhaps you have a good point about some having more insight than others into their behaviour. The thing that strikes me about your EUM is that he thought it was OK to tell you he’s an a-hole. Isn’t that a weird thing to do, interpersonally? When I apply your ideas to my ex-EUM, I am starting to think that maybe*he* had more insight than I gave him credit for – whenever we spoke about feelings for each other – I felt he was almost “prompted†to say he loved me – he would always follow it with “but I don’t want to hurt you†(or “I don’t want to hurt anybodyâ€). Perhaps he knew that he ended up hurting most women who fell in love with him? Very interesting. You said “he’s not fit to shine my shoes and neither are any of these other emotionally unavailable men who have brought us collectively to this site.†– from what you’ve said about your EUM, I can see why you think that! At least yours liked talking to you, though. Mine had a different agenda…
@Serena – wow, your exEUM really does seem to ‘not know his arse from his elbowâ€, as NML would say! No wonder you are/were confused. Not sure if I would interpret his comment as a breakup or a threat, but seemed out of the blue either way! I think you are NC with him now – am I right? If so, I’m hoping you are relieved to be done with that confusing behaviour!
@Butterfly – I think you missed my question to you (above Wised-Up’s post) -‘ “this sounds almost like some sort of narcissist wound†– not sure what you’re referring to here – the forgetting of previous conversations by the EUM?’ I have read a bit about NPD, but don’t fully see my EUM in the criteria. Are you suggesting my ex-EUM was displaying behaviour typical of a narcissist who has been offended? Maybe I should read up on it a bit more…
And I agree with your feedback to Janet re: possibly some EUW behaviours there . Penny earlier asked “Wonder how they manage to avoid becoming involved with people like themselves?â€, and I guess the answer to that question is that they *do* end up with EU people – umm, that would be us, I suppose – but we probably portray our emotional unavailability in different ways, as women. Having very strict dating rules, as in Janet’s case, may be one way – I agree. Choosing married men as partners may be another, as someone pointed out to *me*. And even putting up with EU behaviour from men, as I understand it, can be EUW behaviour. If we were more emotionally available and healthy, they wouldn’t have a chance with us in the first place. And the sex very early in the relationship piece (cow and milk, lol), I’m thinking could be an EUW behaviour, too, which I have certainly engaged in during my life, unfortunately. Was it NML, or Robin Norwood (who wrote “Women who Love too Muchâ€) who suggested that sex can be a way to avoid real intimacy since you’re not really getting to know each other except physically? More getting to know each other’s genitals than anything!
So, my latest goal is to figure out in which ways I am EU myself. What barriers do I put up that interfere with true friendship and intimacy? What is it about my emotional life that would cause me to be EU, and what can I do to recover from that? What kind of people to I *hope* to be compatible with, and what might stand in the way of that? Wow, such big questions for a beautiful Saturday morning!
@ Butterfly: I agree with you about his odd comment being an attempt to placate me, but, of course, only in a way that would allow his own needs to be met (via Narcissistic Supply; and, even though I recognize the pitfalls in attempting to diagnose anybody with any kind of disorder, I do believe he’s a narcissist. The Citizen Kane thing aside, he told me he loved himself too much and that he was living in Russia in an attempt to make his life a little “special.” I should point out here that we’re both mid-20s–I’m 2 years older than him, which was probably something I should have paid more attention to to begin with– and that, on some level, this is what we’re now taught to do: go live abroad, experience the world and broaden our horizons, etc. But without friends and people to love, how can life be special? ).
And I’m sure that it’s worse when you are with a man (LDR or not) and he’s telling you everything that you want to hear and then turns into a complete and total douche. It’s horrible to feel deceived, to know that you were deceived. But I honestly believed at the time that, given the amount of time he was spending with me (virtual or not), the kinds of conversations we were having (he did take an interest in my life and was supportive; he would only devalue the relationship when I asked him about how he would define our relationship….which in and of itself is telling) and the nice things he would say (never did he say he wanted to wake up next to me, but I never would have suggested a visit had he not told me I would have a place to stay next time I visited Russia, to find a conference there to “spice up my life,” that his job was probably going to be bringing him to CA, etc.), that he was interested in something more. It was just a very weird situation filled with mixed signals. But this blog has taught me that even though I would never tell a guy that talking to him was the highlight of my day if I maybe never planned on seeing him again, other people will do this.
The good news is, I haven’t lost my faith in humanity and the possibility of having a healthy and positive relationship. Several of my friends are with people who really love them for them and whom they can rely on and trust. This is what I want and I think it’s possible. I just think I need to be more discerning in the future because, the truth is, everything I needed to know was there from the beginning (as NML often says).
@ Meant to be Happy: Telling somebody you’re an a%$hole, yeah, I would say that’s a pretty weird thing to do. 🙂 It certainly doesn’t inspire trust or friendship, although I did feel a little sorry for him when I heard it (I mean, maybe in being involved with these men, we’re experiencing a “self-fulfilling prophecy,” but I think they’re also engaged in the same thing and constantly self-sabotage themselves. When I apologized for hurting him with the email I sent, he said I didn’t hurt him, he had hurt himself.) At the time some of my friends said, “At least he’s honest.”
And, yeah, maybe he liked talking to me (I think this was the hardest thing to accept–that somebody could enjoy me and my personality and yet not want a relationship. When I asked about this, he said he was never really attracted to my “unreal calves” like he knew he should be….Besides the natural WTF response, needless to say, even though I know I’m an attractive girl–not that that even matters; I had found somebody I could really talk to and I thought that meant something–I started to wonder if there was something physically repulsive about me. I even went to far as to ask if he found me to be repulsive and he said, “no, I don’t find you to be physically repulsive.” Clearly, a real charmer and giving individual. Not that I need to have my own ego stroked, but still! Whether a lover or a friend, we have to give something of ourselves in our relationships), but I’m not an intellectual callgirl…or a therapist. When I told him it had never been a completely positive or healthy relationship for me, he thanked me for being nice to him the whole time, even though “he sucks, but only kind of.” Self-awareness or last ditch attempt to engage my pity? Doesn’t matter.
If somebody has feelings for me, or doubts about me or the possibility of a long distance relationship succeeding (he alluded to this), let’s discuss them openly and honestly. I’m not a mind reader, nor do I want to be. The only thing that gave me the strength to leave was that I knew I deserved better. Human communication should never be this difficult and I knew that, even if he eventually came around, I was going to feel uneasy. After all, who wants to feel like they’ve fought tooth and nail for every inch? It’s not worth it, especially when I know it was completely and utterly his loss. Love isn’t easy, but still…it shouldn’t make you feel like a doormat either.
@Wised_Up – yeah, you’re right, a real charmer, lol. But sounds like he has more insight than most EUM’s. And speaking of insight, it’s great that you are also educating yourself about healthy vs unhealthy relationships, and you are only in your late 20’s – good for you! Many of us here (including me) are already in our 40’s, and still trying to sort this stuff out!
“Whether a lover or a friend, we have to give something of ourselves in our relationships)” – so true! You deserve to be in a mutually satisfying relationship, not to be somebody’s therapist. Best of luck to you on your journey to being completely rid of the EUM, and opening up the door to someone healthier.
@Meant to Be Happy & @ Butterfly — I went to bed last night and BINGO!! the lightbulb went on for me with regard to the behavior described in my recent post!! He was trying to “manage the relationship down” from Smokin’ HOT (one week together 24/7, we became too close for HIS comfort) to Ice COLD and I took it to mean a breakup! That’s why he acted shocked!! He was just following his usual pattern. Now that I understand it, the confusion is gone and I can move beyond it. The many epiphanies I’m gaining into the relationship from visiting this site are bringing me such a sense of peace and calm.
@Meant to be Happy — Yes, I am NC and it’s been 5 weeks tomorrow. I’m surprised that he’s left me alone for this length of time. Perhaps it’s because he is very clear that I will not be a fallback girl of the friends or FWB variety. Or. . . maybe he thinks that he’ll just give me some time to cool down and then attempt to indoctrinate me into his harem. YUCK!!
Butterly, my way isn’t for everyone.
Yes 20 minutes. A man knows within a few seconds if he’s attracted to you. He also knows within 5 minutes if he wants to spend time with you again. Men will talk and talk and talk to a woman to flatter HIS ego. Then you’ve spent all this time with him whereas someone who is really into you couldn’t or wouldn’t approach you because the talker was around.
Unavailability? Not at all. I’m very friendly and approachable. People talk to me all the time. I’m very easy going. I act like a lady but I think like a man in dating.
Growing and blooming naturally within the dating context is one thing. I’m not going to teach a man how to date me. Nature put it in a man’s genes that if he wants to procreate and have a family he has to act and set the wheels in motion.
Actually I’m not a dating cycle at all. I haven’t had a date in a while. I broke with a knucklehead last year and had one date since. I’ve spent this time reexamining my patterns and why I did what I did. That is why I’ve come to this conclusion that my way works for me. This time I want a good man, not a “good for now†man.
As far as men being shy? There are men that are shy, sure, however, if a man is really really interested in you, he approaches you, if not, I’ll be free to meet someone who is willing to stick his neck out and ask me out.
I don’t mean to be critical Janet, but your response is pretty defensive. I really really REALLY REALLY recommend NML’s book hon. Truly, and said with love for a fellow woman.
There’s so many things in this thread!!! Telling people you are an arsehole and getting off on it … yep. Classic behaviour from my ex who did exactly the same (I just never thought it would apply to me). Watch how the guy treats your waiter/waitress if you want a real clue – this rich guy I was on about before was so dismissive with the staff here when we went out (despite him not speaking the language … he truly embarassed me with the equivalent of clicking his fingers and calling a waiter “garcon” in France) – I don’t much care to talk to him again even really.
@ Meant to be Happy: Thank you for your kind words and support! And I wish you the best of luck as well; 20, 30 40, or even, let’s say, 85, it’s never too late for positive change (I’ll always be an optimist, at least when it comes to things like this).
Even though I initiated NC before finding this site, I didn’t truly experience my breakthrough until after I started reading NML’s posts and everybody’s comments. I have really been taking the time this summer to think about myself, what I want, working and getting things in order for the upcoming semester (I’m in graduate school and so my life revolves around the academic calendar) visiting friends and family and just enjoying life. And it’s funny (in a good way) because I feel I can really see a difference in myself…There’s a calm to my life that I’m really enjoying. I need stability in order to function well and it’s so true that if our gut/sixth sense is telling us that something is off (feeling nervous, anxious, overly excited/impatient, uncomfortable), then it’s best to just walk away. No other person I’ve dated or none of my other friends (at least the friendships that have been real and have lasted) have ever made me feel this way. And now I don’t think anybody will again (I’ve made several changes since cutting contact with him, also refusing to engage with other people–female “friends”–who seemingly lack empathy, are comfortable disrespecting me and other people on a regular basis and who just don’t enrich my life. Yep, I’m establishing boundaries…and the great thing is that I’ve realized I can still be nice to people while doing it).
I think I really lost perspective and wasn’t taking care of myself when I allowed this person–EUM or simply an immature 23 year old? I wonder if there’s a difference?–to enter my life…I was busy with work (overworked really), not sleeping well (stress related), ill several times and just plain exhausted. I wasn’t loving myself (even he commented on this occasionally, telling me I needed to sleep more, etc.) and he just fit into this overall pattern of negativity. Next time around, I not only know what I won’t tolerate and the signs of such behavior, but, more importantly, I have a solid idea of what I want. If he’s read “War and Peace,” great! But if he hasn’t and he’s a genuinely nice guy, that won’t be the end of the world… I just might buy him a copy for Christmas. 🙂
Butterfly – we’ll agree to disagree. I don’t feel my post was defensive. Like I said my way isn’t for everyone. This site is for all women. We all have our own way. You date your way and I’ll date my way.
@ Janet well that’s ok with me sweetheart. I agree that everyone has their own way but let me ask you this, and it is absolutely rhetorical. If this site doesn’t resonate to you, and the advice you are given is not what you want to hear, why are you here? I don’t read forums about fly fishing or stamp collecting and then post on them saying “I don’t agree with you”. Take that as you will, because you are not open to other people’s points of view and if I was a guy I’d run a mile from the EUW behaviour. Sorry, I know you don’t like this being said either by me or by your friend but it’s your life and your choice and I wish you well. In fact I nick the line from Wised Up:
“And I wish you the best of luck as well; 20, 30 40, or even, let’s say, 85, it’s never too late for positive change (I’ll always be an optimist, at least when it comes to things like this).”
@Serena – “Now that I understand it, the confusion is gone and I can move beyond it. ” – that’s great! and 5 weeks of NC under your belt is fantastic too. Please *do not* sign up for his harem!!!
@Wised_Up – “Next time around, I not only know what I won’t tolerate and the signs of such behavior, but, more importantly, I have a solid idea of what I want.” – fantastic!!! And best of luck to you in grad school – I remember that as a very busy time, but also very rewarding 🙂
Butterfly – this site DOES resonate with me. Just because I don’t agree with your assessment of me doesn’t mean I don’t appreciate this site. I simply don’t agree with what YOU had to say about my post, not the entire site in general.
I’m sure you mean well – but your POV isn’t mine, that’s all.
You continue to mention I have EUW behavior. You don’t even know me so you can’t even begin to give that type of armchair analysis of who I am as a person.
I’m just going by what you say Janet – for example, when you said that we had to agree to disagree this was a statement expecting compliance or argument. I’m not going to post again, because my intention is not to argue or be personal – and at the end of the day, we all have our own paths to walk. I continue to wish you well.
@everybody. MY EX-EUM SHOWED UP ON MY DOORSTEP TONIGHT!! I CAN’T believe it. It’s been 5 weeks no contact! It was another f’d up circular conversation in some ways but I took control and got my points across. I told him how he hurt me, how he broke my heart, how blowing hot and cold was/is a mind fu&^ and gave precise examples of this beahvior. I told him how I opened my heart to him and he trampled it. I told him how he worked to sabatage this relationship when it was at its peak. He expressed that he doesn’t know if he made a mistake, doesn’t know if letting me go is the right thing to do yada yada yada. We talked alot and I remained strong and didn’t cave. I told him that it is abnormal to leave a relationship at the peak when everything is good, that normal people leave when things go sour due to betrayal or irreconcilable differences. I told him that people that bail when things are good generally have issues taking it to the next level due to deep rooted issues centered on fear that if they give their heart, that they will be hurt in some way. I told him that these issues can come from abandonment or hurt from past relationships. I told him that I trusted him, and that I’m trustworthy, yet he didn’t trust me and he’s not trustworthy, and how ass backwards that is. He admitted he didn’t trust me but had no logical reason why. I told him that calling our relationship abnormal tells me he’s never had a normal relationship. Then he said, maybe the problem is all with him. I said the problem is definately all with him, my heart was open, it was him who couldn’t open his heart due to fear and that’s what was causing his “gut reaction,” not me and not the relationship. I told him his “gut reaction” and anxiety had to do with fear to take it to the next level, not me or our relationship. He said he has some people he is talking to about this. GOOD, I hope they’re giving him good advice! Anyway, I asked him what he wanted out of the relationship. He said, then, now, or later and then couldn’t answer when pressed. He said, “You’re one of a kind.” I said, “Yes I am and you will not find someone like me ever again. I asked him if his intent on stopping to see me was to get his ego stroked. He was offended by this. I told him that I had made it clear that I won’t be his friend, that I would not accept a demotion from girlfriend to friend or FB or anything else. I told him that the only way that I will engage with him is if he wants to truly commit to making this relationship work as couple. When he left he went to hug me. I asked him if this was a friendly hug because if it was I didn’t want to hug him. He then went to hug me again, I said the only way I will hug you is if we’re a couple and I turned and left. There was LOTS more than this but it certainly rattled my cage! I’m pretty calm right now and made my boundaries clear. I would be willing to give it another go but only with some SERIOUS therapeutic intervention that he so sorely needs. I think at this point he’s actually questioning himself but who knows! I just don’t want to let myself get sucked into false hope for this relationship and start a cycle of obsessing about him again. So, I won’t!! I’ll continue to move on. The balls in his court and he’s completely clear as to what he needs to do to re-enter my life namely, work to resolve his EUM and commitment phobic issues. Rright now I feel good about things. I hope I feel the same way in the morning! Comments PLEASE!!
Serena,
It’s so hard to know what’s ever truly running through the minds of these men, but one thing that’s clear from your post is that his appearance on your doorstep really jarred you. And I think that’s only natural; after all, you’re in the grieving/processing stage and you’re still working through what happened….
More importantly, this is the fantasy that every (or at least most) woman has when a man either ends the relationship himself or brings about the end of a relationship with bad behavior, i.e. that he’ll reappear, promising change and telling us how special we are! Not that I doubt that you’re wonderful, but the guy I was involved with also once told me that he realized I was one of a kind…My ultimate point here: these are empty words. Sure, people can make mistakes and not appreciate what they have until it’s gone (this is a cliched statement for a reason, after all), but my question is this: If he was really recognized your worth, why didn’t he come back promising a committed relationship? Why was he still hedging? I realize that you didn’t post everything that you both said to each other, but if the conversation was (as you said) still circular and baffling on some level, then he doesn’t seem any more ready than he was 5 weeks ago.
Granted, he says he’s talking to people about this, but who precisely (friends? professionals?)? And if their words were really getting through to him, why doesn’t he trust you (I understand that Moscow wasn’t built in a day, but still….his level of emotional insight and self-knowledge still seems pretty superficial)?
I know you only from your posts, but I can safely say that I think you deserve better than this. 🙂 If he was really interested in _you_, he would respected your wishes for “no contact” and have come back only after he had worked through his issues or had something concrete to offer you. Given the price of gas these days, it’s lovely that he decided to stop by, but talk’s cheap. In my opinion, he’s all potential, little substance.
@Wised_Up — I haven’t bought into the fantasy becasue nothing was promised. It did feel good though to have control of the conversation, say what I had to say and re-establishing direct and greater boundaries. But in the end, there were no promises and he still the same ole ASS-EUM and that is the way I will think of him until such time that he comes to me with something much more substantive in the way of change. Long term therapy comes to mind!! It WAS an ego boost for me but I have to be careful not to let it rekindle hope and interfere with my healing process. In answer to your question, he’s not promising a committed relationship and still hedging becasue he’s still a commitment phobic EUM. I do think he’s at least begun to look at his behavior more honestly now, likely having to do with his age and desire tor setlle down. HOWEVER, I’m not betting my life or holding my life up based on this because the changes could come too late for me, if at all. All I know is somebodies got him thinking, and it’s not me. He says he has male friends he talks to. I also didn’t suck into his charm and flirtation. He makes these little faces with his eyes and mouth. He was doing it and I said, “Oh, is that what you do to attract Mary, how ’bout Sue, or Allison, . . . Ashley or Alysa??” He said I do this when I’m confused.” I said, “No you don’t, when you’re confused you do this (I made his confused face). (The names are all made up. I was just busting his balls regarding knowing he was attempting to charm me with his flirtations).
Serena, that was wonderful, truly. I really admire you for saying what is at the heart of the matter, and it made me think to: normal people DON’T leave a relationship when it is at it’s peak. This must have taken so much strength 🙂
I once had someone turn up on my doorstep JUST as I had forgotten about him. I obviously had sense in the past though, my response was very cool and calm and collected then and I told him he was bang out of order and to go away (he couldn’t tell the truth to save his life).
This makes me ask how I, who was always so together, ended up with two EUMs/NPD people in a row right after that? Hmmmm.
Anyway Serena, stay strong. Stay very strong. Maybe this gets you your man but I’d say be very very careful because he clearly knows how to push buttons. You are seeing him as he is … but they can morph too, you know, then just revert to type (been there done that with the one I was with for 10 years).
Wishing you love and peace 🙂
@Butterfly — I’m not so sure this gets me my man. He’s got EUM baggage and although he may be glimpsing at it, he may never change. The fact is that ther’s got to be something concrete (like 10 sessions of therapy) and an ackowledgement that he knows he’s carrying this distinct baggage before I will re-engage. Right now all I know is that he accepted responsibility that the problem is his. He’s talking to some male friends about it. He says he made a mistake. Says I’m one of a kind. Says he doesn’t know if he should have come because it stirred the pot. He doesn’t know if he should let me go. (There’s the ole ambivalence!!) There’s nothing truly substantive in any of it. So, really he’s still in the same EUM boat as far as I can see. I may have given him a glimpse in the mirror of his reflection, but all changes rest squarely with him. I don’t know if he’s got it in him. But what I do know is that he can’t slip back in with me unless its under my “new rules!!” and mmy expectations of what I WANT, NEED, AND EXPECT from a relationship. It’s a heck of alot of work for him to do and I don’t know if he can “man-up!” I just so HOPE I don’t start getting back to a state of obsessing about fantasy land!!
@Serena – just wanted to let you know that some of us have responded to your “EUM on your doorstep” post over on “Compatibility part 3” 🙂 Hugs…