In this part, the focus is on compatibility, a word that I hear a lot from people who are struggling to find a mate or are involved in relationships that aren’t working.
According to Cambridge’s Advanced Learners Dictionary, the definition of compatibility is:
“able to exist, live together, or work successfully with something or something or someone else”
And this is where the concept of how ‘right’ someone is for us and our compatibility falls down completely when you consider our involvement with Mr Unavailables and assclowns.
You are only able to ‘exist’ together if you play by their rules and dance to the beat of their terms.
Many women who have been involved with emotionally unavailable men and assclowns don’t know who they are anymore, what they want, what they need, what’s inappropriate, and even what ‘healthy’ looks like.
We’re too busy worrying about what men want, need, like, don’t like, and making them the centre of the universe, and whichever man is in the frame at the moment, we bend, yield, adapt, and make ourselves compatible with their behaviour.
We’re so busy trying to be compatible with the latest guy that it hasn’t occurred to us to ask whether he is compatible with us.
These relationships, dalliances, pursuits are not working. Many women are unhappy with the very choices that they claim are catering to their compatibility, type, and common interests.
Whilst the basis of the dysfunctional relationship between women and men who end up detracting from their self-esteem and catering to the negative beliefs about themselves, love, and relationships works for them, it’s not in a positive and successful way.
This ultimately goes back to asking yourself why you keep throwing yourself into oncoming traffic and wondering why you get run down? This is the relationship insanity of being involved with men that you’re really not that compatible with.
Part of the reason why we keep flogging a dead horse even when the relationship and him are showing very little signs of life is because it caters to these beliefs and in sticking with these men like glue, we don’t have to look too closely at ourselves and change our behaviour because we’re too busy obsessing about him, his problems, his everything.
The dysfunction works because the thought of changing and putting the focus on ourselves is incredibly uncomfortable and seemingly scary, and so we stay in the comfort zone of the familiarity of the uncomfortable relationships and behaviour from these men that we’re comfortable with and we call it ‘compatibility’.
But really, whilst it ‘works’ on some levels for you, in the overall grander scheme of things, i.e, the bigger picture, this doesn’t work for you because you know it’s screwed up so you end up lying down on the sacrificial alter trying to change the very man and the relationship that you claim is symbolic of your compatibility.
In fact, you often internalise the behaviour of these men and the struggle to get them to behave how you want or give you the relationship you profess to desire, and you blame yourself, obsess over him and the relationship, riddle yourself with self-doubt, and then try to change yourself in the hope that he will finally see how amazing you are and how your love is the best one for him, and accept you, validate you, and give you the relationship you want.
If you have to keep changing, throwing your boundaries out the window, and eroding at your self-esteem to be with the guy you claim to be sooooo compatible with, you really aren’t very compatible…especially when the onus of change seems to lie very squarely with you if you want to be with him.
Let me ask you all something, what has he done for you lately?
What is so wonderful about this man that you are compatible with the idea of being with someone who’s not actually compatibile with you, a toxic type, and may share some ‘interests’ but who is fighting being in a relationship with you and loving, respecting, trusting, and caring about you?
If you have been habitually involved with emotionally unavailable men and/or assclowns you are compatible with bullsh*t, illusions, and false promises.
You’re compatible with lies, inaction, the smoke and mirrors of words that carry very little weight, contradictory behaviour, ambiguity, denial, drama, frustration, pain, devastation, and placing yourself with men in relationships that offer the least likely possibility for yielding commitment and happiness.
These relationships don’t work for you. The behaviour of emotionally unavailable men and assclowns doesn’t work for you.
Compatibility isn’t about composing a list of things as if you’re filling out a profile on a dating site, ticking boxes. Look at the bigger picture – are you both together working together successfully on your relationship or has at least one of you got at least one foot out the proverbial door?
If you both share a love of music, art, travelling etc, that’s wonderful if aside from these things, he’s a man with values that are compatible with yours that result in you being able to share in a relationship where you both have both feet in, and there is the common ground of each other, and respect, love, care, and trust.
I know people who are really happy together who don’t share lots of the same interests, but they work. Successfully.
Working dysfunctionally and being unhappy to boot is not the same thing.
If you can’t communicate with your guy about the good, bad, the ugly and in between without thinking the relationship is going to go t*ts up because you haven’t said what he wants to hear, you really aren’t compatible.
If the only way that you can be with him is to throw away your boundaries and your values so that you can exist on his terms, you really aren’t compatible.
If being with this man means that you can’t love you and treat yourself with due care, love, trust, and respect, you are not compatible.
If you have to pretend that he’s more wonderful, interesting etc than he actually is, in fact, if you have to pretend full stop, you are not compatible.
If you want to be with him and he doesn’t want to be with you, or wants to be with you and other women too, you are not compatible.
If you’re the one doing a sales pitch on yourself constantly, trying to convince him that he should be with you, that your love/relationship is where he should be at, you are not compatible.
If you spend more time being miserable and trying to get him to be what you want rather than living and enjoying your life, you are not compatible.
If you have to sell yourself short so that his ego can get a good stroking, you are not compatible.
If your core values don’t stack up and you value different things, you are not compatible.
Compatibility is not about finding a perfect person that you’ve trumped up in your imagination or finding a mirror of yourself, or finding someone to fill a void within yourself.
Illusions yield relationships that are not rooted in reality.
Emotionally unavailable men and assclowns mirror the negative things that we believe about ourselves, love, and relationships – read my post on what our choice in men says about us.
Trying to build up our value by trying to find men to validate us and fill our voids is actually creating greater voids.
You know when you get those people that break up because one person wanted to lead the party life, travelling, having fun, and avoiding putting down roots, and the other wanted to put down some roots and build a life and have a family? Well those people invariably end up breaking up if they don’t find a common ground because they have different values and value different things.
Some people value their ‘freedom’, their security, their solodom, the lack of responsibility, and not dealing with their fears about commitment.
Some people are scared of solid ground, consistency, being expected, wanted, and needed from.
As women who want to be loved, we invariably value someone who doesn’t perceive being with us as shackles trapping them in the jail cell of a relationship!
We want to be ‘together’, cherished, have someone behave responsibly and not be afraid to be responsible for the impact of their actions on us or the relationship.
We do want commitment and when we deal with our own fears and issues, we will want someone who will put both of their feet in without being dragged their screaming and kicking.
As basics of a relationship, you need to be able to rely upon someone, expect, want, and need from without being punished by being called ‘needy’, ‘psycho’, or having them withdraw themselves so that they can manage down your expectations.
You need to be able to trust them.
You need to not be living in fear.
No matter how great the sexual attraction, how much money he has or doesn’t have, how good he is at his job, the fact that he likes reading, writing, is a poet, a musician, artist, good sense of humour, makes you laugh till your sides ache, big dick, medium dick, liked by his peers, got promoted recently, financially stable, ability to pull other women, how tall or short he is, whether he’s black or white, dresses well, absails, surfs, risk taker, likes gardening, climbs mountains, watches Columbo or whatever, what is the point in basing your compatibility on these things if you don’t get a committed relationship out of it.
If you have found yourself habitually involved with emotionally unavailable men and assclowns, you, so far, have been compatible with men that do not yield healthy relationships that leave you feeling good.
If you want to share the values of emotionally unavailable men and assclowns, then you’re compatible.
They value keeping themselves at a distance, living in lalaland believing they’re the best thing since sliced bread, getting an ego stroke, and any other fringe benefits that come in the package, as long as you don’t want, need, or expect too much from them or attempt to change the rules.
If you don’t want to share their values, trust me when I say that trying to turn a pigs ear into a silk purse by trying to get them to change and value you and your values is unlikely to yield you a return on your emotional investment, and may actually leave you emotionally bankrupt.
As always, take the focus off him and bring it back to you. Take care of yourself, learn to like, love, and value yourself by putting boundaries in place that reflect these things and teach people how to treat you and you will value different things because you’ll realise you feel a damn sight better.
As I said in part two, you’ve been chasing a feeling and focusing on how you’ve felt at those good times rather than looking at the bigger picture and ultimately, the incompatibility means that most of the time, you don’t feel that good at all.
It’s not an instant overnight thing. Many of us are impatient as if being compatible with assclowns and emotionally unavailable men is something that changes at the flick of a switch.
But it doesn’t actually take very long if you really do put them aside for some time, focus on you, build yourself back and focus on being compatible with yourself.
If you can’t like and love you, you will struggle to find love and be happy with it. You need to be able to exist with yourself and love yourself unconditionally so that no matter what happens, your sense of self stays intact, instead of you adapting and morphing to make yourself compatible with inappropriate men and situations.
Next up, I’ll be looking at type!
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I couldn’t wait to get up this morning to see if you’d written the third installment to this amazing series…thanks for not disappointing! I’ve been coming to this site for a little over a year now, off and on when my confidence needs bolstering and I’m searching for clarity. Today I’m supposed to reconnect with my Mr. Ambiguous whom I’ve been seeing for a year and a half, after taking a month-long hiatus to sort some things out. I know I need to end it once and for all, and I’ve had a million conversations with him in my head over the last 4 weeks-I so want to break old patterns and give myself a chance to grow and heal. I’m the Fallback Poster Girl…looking back over my life I can see how I was trained/shaped to accomodate, adjust, put up, shut up, ignore my own needs and go with the flow. That mentality naturally carried into all my dating relationships, marriage to a man who refused to see or hear me, and now a series of post-divorce relationships where I still have no voice. It’s tough at 47 to take an inventory of my emotional investments without wanting to slam the door on a picture that is embarassingly self-destructive and defeating, but you have helped me assess while giving myself grace at the same time. We can’t know what we don’t know. I have a long road ahead; a happy road though where I can allow myself the luxury of envisioning the possibility of a MUTUALLY BENEFICIAL relationships with people who actually care about my own well-being as much as their own. In the meantime, putting my fears in perspective about going it alone for awhile and putting my needs first is becoming more and more attractive. I’m paying attention to the way certain people make me feel as I interact with them, and tuning in to my gut when it’s screaming something doesn’t feel right. I’m going to learn to honor ME, respect ME, love ME. There’s still time, and your hard-won words of wisdom and encouragement are invaluable in that process. Thanks for sharing your heart!
“You are only able to ‘exist’ together if you play by their rules and dance to the beat of their terms. Many women who have been involved with EU men and ACs don’t know who they are anymore, what they want, what they need, what’s inappropriate, and even what ‘healthy’ looks like.” This is so true. Since I broke up with my EUM, I have really had to sit and think what music would *I* like to listen to? What am *I* in the mood to do today, now that I don’t have to rearrange my schedule to be sure I’m online when he decides he’s available to chat?
“If you have to pretend that he’s more wonderful, interesting etc than he actually is…if you want to be with him and he … wants to be with you and other women too, you are not compatible.†– thank you for that dose of reality!
“The dysfunction works because the thought of changing and putting the focus on ourselves is incredibly uncomfortable and seemingly scary†– As I mentioned in the comments on “part 2â€, my latest goal is to figure out in which ways I am EU myself. What barriers do I put up that interfere with true friendship and intimacy? What is it about my emotional life that would cause me to be EU, and what can I do to recover from that? What kind of people to I *hope* to be compatible with, and what might stand in the way of that? And to add to that – how can I learn to love myself so that I *will not* allow EU people to disrespect and use me? How can I be sure that I’m compatible with people who are “loving, respecting, trusting, and caring†about me? I am *sick* of being compatible with bulsh*t!!!
NML, my perspective is definitely shifting. Focusing on ourselves may be uncomfortable, but we are all worth it!!!
This was awesome. I asked myself the question of what he was doing for me lately and got a resounding nothing. I asked myself if he was a good investment if I wanted love and the answer was no. I was so turned off it made it easy to leave. And this was just a flirtation and it was already clear he was a EUM – and I refuse to be a fallback woman again. We were NOT compatible by any of your healthy definitions, and I knew it !
Fantastic stuff as always Natalie. I’m really happy to say though that I could sort of skim read and agree with a lot of it without any lightbulbs flashing. Why? Because a lot of this has sunk in already. YAY!!!
Annie … you go girl 🙂 When we get to so these guys bounce off the self-esteem shield without doing any harm it feels wonderful doesn’t it? 🙂
My only thing I will add right now is that like I was starting to say on the last thread it is not just women who get hurt by emotional unavailability, men do too, you could go through the entire post above and switch polarity and it would be about women who don’t want to commit, etc. Rarer perhaps but yes.
Can’t wait for the next one … TYPE … that’s the bit that gets me now, trying to work out what my type should be instead of tortured artists with a great sense of humour and rampant narcissism …
Thank you so much for your posts! they are of great help in this awakening process that I have been forced to undergo and face. I still do not understand what you mean exactly by the statement that we look for in relationships what we believe is true about ourselves…I dont’ quite understand it and I was wondering if you could expand on this. I understand that in order to be a fallback girl, we all have certain negative beliefs about ourselves but how do we choose that negativity in a relationship when it started great? How could I have known from the beginning he was catering to my negativities if in fact he presented himself to be completely different from the other men I had met? He fooled everybody, including my family and friends…in the end it was all lies, but for a a long time it was all great…I don’t understand how exactly it ties with the negativie beliefs I have…I want to know…I want to understand…could you please help?
thank you….I hope you know how much you help all of us!
Thank you NML,
“We’re so busy trying to be compatible with the latest guy that it hasn’t occurred to us to ask whether he is compatible with us”.
So true!!! I think all down to self-esteem…We need to check our priorities!!!
I have the same concerns as Marie – How can you tell in the beginning that they’re going to mirror how you may feel about yourself if they start out being so great? This last EUM really rocked my boat – left me emotionally raped and wondering what I did wrong. THANK GOD for this site, as it has shown me that I AM a decent, sensitive, generous, loyal, loving woman who deserves a man who can reciprocate without a list of conditions. I am moving on with what I want to do, and feeling stronger every day, but I couldn’t do it without this GREAT site to put things in perspective. I wish I’d seen it 2 years ago.
“If you can’t like and love you, you will struggle to find love and be happy with it. You need to be able to exist with yourself and love yourself unconditionally so that no matter what happens, your sense of self stays intact, instead of you adapting and morphing to make yourself compatible with inappropriate men and situations.”
Damn you’re good NML!! You never let your readers down, ever! Thank you.
@flygirl
“”I’m paying attention to the way certain people make me feel as I interact with them, and tuning in to my gut when it’s screaming something doesn’t feel right. I’m going to learn to honor ME, respect ME, love ME.”” I really had to smile and felt a tinge in my heart for you when I read this. I don’t know you but I think it’s fantastic that you’re at this place of realization because you deserve better, you have the right to expect better and you’re trusting yourself.
“”….take an inventory of my emotional investments without wanting to slam the door on a picture that is embarassingly self-destructive and defeating…”” This too made me smile because it took me awhile to experience some grace in this area. Embarrassed was not the word for me….I felt humiliated and cheap. But you will walk away with your head high for having gone through it and still have dignity in tact. No one can take that from you but you. Just thought I’d share my two cents worth…hugs to you. And I really hope that you were able to end things with your EUM today.
Great post NML!
If you can’t communicate with your guy about the good, bad, the ugly and in between without thinking the relationship is going to go t*ts up because you haven’t said what he wants to hear, you really aren’t compatible.
If the only way that you can be with him is to throw away your boundaries and your values so that you can exist on his terms, you really aren’t compatible.
If being with this man means that you can’t love you and treat yourself with due care, love, trust, and respect, you are not compatible.
If you have to pretend that he’s more wonderful, interesting etc than he actually is, in fact, if you have to pretend full stop, you are not compatible.
If you want to be with him and he doesn’t want to be with you, or wants to be with you and other women too, you are not compatible.
If you’re the one doing a sales pitch on yourself constantly, trying to convince him that he should be with you, that your love/relationship is where he should be at, you are not compatible.
If you spend more time being miserable and trying to get him to be what you want rather than living and enjoying your life, you are not compatible.
If you have to sell yourself short so that his ego can get a good stroking, you are not compatible.
If your core values don’t stack up and you value different things, you are not compatible.
Thanks so much! Love and need these reminders.
What has he done for me lately?
Confused me.. He rang me a while back now and said he wanted me to attend something with him today but I had no time to talk so he said he would ring back sometime I naturally assumed that he would call with further details but nope not a peep and today for me has come and gone..
But on the positive side .. I did not chase him I did not text, call, email or knock on his door I just made other plans and actually had a great weekend..
I know we aren’t compatiable…
@ Marie etc. Well I personally think this comes down to wanting to do things right, strangely enough. I don’t think most of them actually set out to hurt, I think they just think what they did wrong in the last relationship and try to do it a different way.
I could feel sorry for my ex-ex’s new girlfriend. I do in a way, but I don’t want to get too involved, it’s taken me years to extract myself from a situation I now find ludicrous that I was ever in. He’s “treating her right” and he “loves her” – this is because he couldn’t cope financially without me so he is moving in with her. He is unsure about the relationship but also says every time he thinks of the “wonderful little things” between me and him he wants to kill himself. I’ve said in other posts that he either had met her before I left or he really DID manage to get a new girlfriend within three days.
Three days of a 10 year relationship finally ending??!?
Now, to her, he is wonderful. He says and does all the right things, they do everything together. She is smothering him, never gives him any peace but you know what? It’s working for her! She’s all demand where I was all give! However, I know him better and I think leopards might learn to accessorise their spots but they can’t really change them. One day she will say something nice and BOOM off will go one of his inexplicable rages.
So Marie et al, this is why. My ex … omg I really thought he was the one. I can say this now without it hurting (thanks NML!) but the harder part is understanding why we attract these predators in the first place, the wolves in the cute caring guy costume are indeed harder to spot than the obvious assholes BUT don’t give up hope. Keep reading. Get NML’s book (I was sceptical that it could have a lot in it after so many posts but believe me it really does and she pulls no punches about the hows wheres and whys).
@ Tulipa – excellent 🙂 My “my rich EUM” I had met here has not replied to the mail I sent after our last outing where I made my feelings quite clear on something very tactless he said. That list above? What could he offer me? Well … lonely in a strange place is never the basis for anything, and a FWB relationship is settling for far less. Plus, I don’t fancy him even remotely and I do understand how this mechanism works – “OK now I withdraw and she starts chasing me and makes me feel good”.
It’s sunny, think I’ll go for a walk. 🙂
There is a whole industry devoted to helping women find and keep healthy relationships. Not many books however are directed towards men, about dealing with problems with women. This leads me to believe that their is an absolute plague of dysfunctional men out there.
I ended a very unhappy and lonely marriage of 25 years, 7 years ago. In the ensuing 7 years, I have had exactly one relationship, that lasted 6 months. In addition, I have had about a dozen coffee dates, that lasted an hour or less. SEVEN YEARS !
I know it’s not me. I know my value, and that I am a catch. I have a full and exciting life, but I don’t want to spend the rest of my years single !
I am 55 now, and completely dejected. I am almost ready to settle for anything, As I stated in the beginning of this post, it is beginning to look like only one in a thousand men are emotionally healthy, and I haven’t got endless years to keep looking. I am burning out, and can’t handle the whims and proclivities of guys who don’t know what they want. I am ALMOST willing to settle for anything. I have spent most of my life alone, I enjoy my own company, but I am so weary of trying to find someone to share the rest of my life with. I just don’t think that at my age, the possibilities are as open as they were when I had a decade or so ahead of me to keep dating. If meeting men was so easy, then internet dating sites would not be making more money than porn sites, and apparently they do rake in more cash.
To mistechal,
I hear you. I ended a terribly sad, lonely marriage of 13 years, and that was 9 years ago. I had two young kids who are now 19 and 16 years old, and the dad pushed for “joint” custody, but the kids live with me and I do all the work and parenting, and he hangs out with them and has fun one day a week. He continues with his life of ego and selfishness, and is somewhat of a “cool” dad, and that’s fine because at least I don’t have to live with it everyday anymore. I still have to interact with him, though, and am looking soooo forward to the day when that is over and the kids are on their own.
Anyway, I had only one relationship, too, during this 9 years, and it was with a MM who let me think that he was in the divorce process. I really fell hard, and didn’t realize that I was dealing with an EU Ass Clown until I found this site!!!! I now know it was a mistake, and would never get myself into that situation again, but like you, I”m wondering if there will ever be anyone “normal” to spend my life with. i spent over 2, 2 1/2 years of my life believing in a liar, and now I’ve spent the last 7 months in No Contact in order to get him out of my system. 3 plus years of my life, GONE! I’m happy alone, too, most of the time, and I don’t want to have a man in my life just for company. A lot of my friends have really healthy marriages with nice men who are considerate of their wive’s needs above all else while still taking care of their own self and the kids, and I long for that and nothing less. I’m just about 46, and like you, wonder if there are any semi-healthy men out there left. Maybe settling for anything would work temporarily, but if I live another 30 or 40 years, I can’t imagine that it would be any happier than our first marriages, you know?
I just keep reading here because NML’s insights keep me strong and confident and aware, whereas before, after such a rough marriage, I was really feeling beaten down.
It was nice to read another post from a woman who seems to walk a similar path.
Wish you the best!
@Mistechal, I understand how you feel. But whatever you do, don’t settle. I’d rather spend a lifetime alone, then have to deal with an unhealthy relationship. No one will ever treat you better than you treat yourself. I am a 42 yr-old single mother. I exercise, spend time with my daughter, spend time with myself and surround myself with positive people. Do I miss being in a relationship?? Of course. Do I miss drama, lies, and the bs that comes with EUM, HELL NO!! If you can’t be happy by yourself, you’ll never find happiness in a relationship. STAY POSITIVE!!!
mistechal
I have this new theory thanks to the AC ….. Some people have limited self awareness and emotional intelligence. And even some that are aware of the concept of emotional intelligence do not have the desire or ability to work with it. The older men that have do tend to be involved in healthy stable relationships since that is what most women seek. There are plenty stuck on stupid, repeating the AC behavior they have lived their whole life, too lazy or too clueless to evolve out of it.
On this awesome website there is one man I am aware of who posts regularly, and that is Brad. The rest of us are women, so it would stand to reason that there are a lot more women out there interested in or capable of emotional intelligence than men.
So, my point is, as we get older, there seem to be less emotionally aware single men and plenty of emotionally challenged single men out there. Men who are aware of, know of, and are involved in healthy relationships do not easily do things to sabotage and end those relationships ! They work hard to make them work.So, where does that leave all of us ?
Well……this is all a bit sad and discouraging if you are 50 like me and never imagined you would end up living alone. I found that I had to examine that picture of me and a man and ask why the picture always did involve a man.
Though I very much want to wake up with someone, and explore life, ideas and challenges with them, I have come to see that this is not a given as I am not willing to settle or dumb myself down. If I could shut up, ( meaning accept shabby treatment) or set my expectations way lower I know I could easily find men who would be thrilled to ” have me”.
However. although I do not expect to find a totally together middle aged guy, I will never again entertain a relationship with a man who has limited capacity for tapping into the emotional intelligence that is needed for a healthy mature relationship. What it all comes down to for me is a man’s ability to ” go there” , to communicate and work on resolving things, to engage in real action and mature solutions to natural problems that arise between two people, problems that impede development of a deep, meaningful relationship.
I’m with essence on this, I think settling for an EUM is just the most miserable soul sucking thing one could bring on oneself and staying focused and positive and thinking a new picture is the way to go.
These days I am dealing with this revaluation of my picture of ” me and a man living happily ever after” and the concepts of being alone and loneliness by strengthening the friendships I have, and doing plenty of things with girlfriends and couples as we get older.
In a way being involved with the EUM made me less sad about being alone, because I know I could have that kind of awful thing any day and I’d rather explore a cave full of bats than be involved with an EUM/AC again.
One more thing I know is important to meeting anyone and that is a positive attitude. Defeat is the territory of the EUPeople. Acceptance of oneself and the fact that one may end up single is not defeat at all. I Defeat is not accepting and truly believing that being alone is OK. Does not mean we are not open to finding a deep relationship, more that we only are interested in one of that quality and we recognize how hard it is to find single men that are interested in that level of emotional intelligence.
With these thoughts I am sending virtual hugs to all those who need them today. For sure keep your heart open, your head positive and your spirits up.
@Aphrogirl, you said “I’d rather explore a cave full of bats” and my first thought was “wow, that actually sounds like a lot of fun!”
I must be getting better! hahahaha, thank you for the hug!
@Aphrogirl – “If I could shut up, ( meaning accept shabby treatment) or set my expectations way lower I know I could easily find men who would be thrilled to †have meâ€.” – yes, I’m sure we could all do this, and many of us *have* done this! I love how “together” and wise you sound, and I always enjoy your posts.
“I think settling for an EUM is just the most miserable soul sucking thing one could bring on oneself” yes, they do suck a lot of energy and are not good for our souls. I find I am slowly regaining my energy and motivation to do activities of daily living since I left my EUM over 3 weeks ago.
I did read “Women who love too Much” as you suggested, and it was very helpful to figure out my relationship patterns. And I second Regina – thanks for the hug, and I send one back to you 🙂
mistechal!
You are not alone…I can relate to you! Sometimes, I feel like meeting any man, in order to forget my EUM..
The problem with me (I am 41), I dont have children…if I had a child, least I would have someone to look after…
My EUM called me yesterday and we arranged to meet next week and I was too weak to say: “NO”…I just cant drop him…so I put up with all his cr@p!!! I read all NML wonderful posts and book and still – I am not wiser:-(
@Alika – I don’t have kids either hon …
Re your man – you maybe could use this meeting to tell him exactly how you feel and what you think. What’s the worst than can happen, truly? If he is an AC then he’ll act like one and you’ll at least know why and then you can go NC and get over it. If not then maybe he actually is at a point of understanding life more (let’s be positive for a change). Either way, it’s the limbo that hurts most, way more than it being over.
This being said after I found myself just now absolutely positively screaming inside about how much I still love my ex. I accept that I do, now if only he actually really existed.
This is a great site, and a powerful article. I’m a EU male, and most likely an AC too. After reading this, I won’t put up with that behavior anymore. Thanks for the best wake up call I’ve ever been given.
Butterfly,
Thank you very much for your advice…Maybe I should talk to him for the last time?
I talked to him before, but he was only laughing:-( I tried NC few times, but he kept texting me saying, that he misses me and I went back to him! I know by heart he is not my Right man and we dont have a future…but we have such a chemistry and physical attraction that I cant help myself:-(
@Alika … YES YOU CAN. You can do it if you want to. To want to, you have to work out for yourself how much this pain is worth to you … cos it is hard doing AC, sure, but it’s a doddle compared to how they make you feel going back to them. My actual advice is text him, say you aren’t going and then do AC no matter what … but I know how hard it is to make that step. Love and hugs x
@Alika – I would like to add to what Butterfly suggested. I broke up with my EUM 3 weeks ago, and yes, it has been difficult to maintain NC, but sooo much less stressful than wondering how he really feels about me, waiting for his calls, his emails, his suggestions to get together, etc – the horrible place that butterfly referred to as limbo. Now I am actually glad I don’t get emails from him. Yes, I miss the person I dreamed he was (i.e., the illusion), and yes, I miss the chemistry and physical aspects of our relationship (I really, really, miss that), but overall I know this is for the best. If meeting in person, or a text or email doesn’t seem right for you, you may consider the phone. That’s how I did it (well, OK, I did have one last meeting with him, but he didn’t know I was planning to break up that day, and I did want ‘one last time’ with him, but I tell you it made it more difficult to break up with him – all those happy hormones floating around as NML would say) But once I got my resolve to break it off a week after that last meeting, it worked well. I liked the way we could have a dialogue, without me having to wonder how he reacted, or wonder if he would ever respond to a text or email – we discussed what we needed to on the phone, and it worked very well. And he wasn’t there in person, so he couldn’t just give me a big hug and have me melt into his arms, and – well, you get the picture.
Anyway, I hope you find the courage to do what’s best for you, whatever you decide that is. And you can always come to this site for support, too. I send you hugs, along with the others. Take care Alika 🙂
Dave, you wrote this
“I’m a EU male, and most likely an AC too. After reading this, I won’t put up with that behavior anymore.”
Not sure what you meant by ” not putting up with that behavior anymore”, but if you meant behaviore that you do, that you will not put up with being emotionally unavailable or an arseclown anymore…. well that is an excellent revelation.
Manywomen are hard workers, by nature, on emotional development / maturity. We women have so many resources and we are pretty darn good at communicating these ideas to each other. There is so little out there for men. The EUM I just had to stop seeing used to say he ” couldn’t go there ” meaning just about anything that got to be emotionally challenging. Though he is an extreme, and I have never known anyone quite so unable, I think many men have littleexperience working on this stuff.
I am a reader, I like hearing people’s theories. I am gonna send out another book recomendation to any emotionally unavailable men, since there are so few books for men out there. This one is excellent, and one of the few that offers men a compassionate view of why they may be emotionally unavailable and how they can work on it. Its called the emotionally Unavailable Man by Patty Henry and although it is an excellent couples book I believe all men and women int hese osrts of things could benefit. And, NML’s Mr Unavailable could be really insightful for any man who suspects he is EU or an AC.
I wanna say one more thing, perfection ( whatever that is), is not the goal. Life is a work in progress. But the goal should be insight and self improvement so your life is truly emotionally fulfilling. This often will go hand in hand with having fulfilling relationships with friends and lovers.
After reading NML’s post, and processing and processing the last 6 years of my life it really hit me today that maybe the person who I saw my ex EUM to be is not the person he is at all. I bought into the whole compatibility bs because I was 23 years old at the time and didn’t have a clue what a healthy relationship meant. But after assessing my ex EUM’s treatment of me when I finally said no, I am no longer orbiting around you – to make this relationship work we both have to work at it. I realized that his viscious treatment of me, was not something new – he should his unwillingness to be there for me in any substantial way throughout the entire relationship in more subtle ways. Now I am looking at him as an entirely different person now that I am not making excuses for his behaviour – and I feel like I duped myself. Has anyone else experienced this – looking back at their ex EUM and seeing him in a completely different light, now that you are forced to read his actions or inactions and are no longer blinded by what we perceived as “love”.
I’m reposting here because I posted it on the wrong thread and I need help!
@everybody. MY EX-EUM SHOWED UP ON MY DOORSTEP TONIGHT!! I CAN’T believe it. It’s been 5 weeks no contact! It was another f’d up circular conversation in some ways but I took control and got my points across. I told him how he hurt me, how he broke my heart, how blowing hot and cold was/is a mind fu&^ and gave precise examples of this beahvior. I told him how I opened my heart to him and he trampled it. I told him how he worked to sabatage this relationship when it was at its peak. He expressed that he doesn’t know if he made a mistake, doesn’t know if letting me go is the right thing to do yada yada yada. We talked alot and I remained strong and didn’t cave. I told him that it is abnormal to leave a relationship at the peak when everything is good, that normal people leave when things go sour due to betrayal or irreconcilable differences. I told him that people that bail when things are good generally have issues taking it to the next level due to deep rooted issues centered on fear that if they give their heart, that they will be hurt in some way. I told him that these issues can come from abandonment or hurt from past relationships. I told him that I trusted him, and that I’m trustworthy, yet he didn’t trust me and he’s not trustworthy, and how ass backwards that is. He admitted he didn’t trust me but had no logical reason why. I told him that calling our relationship abnormal tells me he’s never had a normal relationship. Then he said, maybe the problem is all with him. I said the problem is definately all with him, my heart was open, it was him who couldn’t open his heart due to fear and that’s what was causing his “gut reaction,†not me and not the relationship. I told him his “gut reaction†and anxiety had to do with fear to take it to the next level, not me or our relationship. He said he has some people he is talking to about this. GOOD, I hope they’re giving him good advice! Anyway, I asked him what he wanted out of the relationship. He said, then, now, or later and then couldn’t answer when pressed. He said, “You’re one of a kind.†I said, “Yes I am and you will not find someone like me ever again. I asked him if his intent on stopping to see me was to get his ego stroked. He was offended by this. I told him that I had made it clear that I won’t be his friend, that I would not accept a demotion from girlfriend to friend or FB or anything else. I told him that the only way that I will engage with him is if he wants to truly commit to making this relationship work as couple. When he left he went to hug me. I asked him if this was a friendly hug because if it was I didn’t want to hug him. He then went to hug me again, I said the only way I will hug you is if we’re a couple and I turned and left. There was LOTS more than this but it certainly rattled my cage! I’m pretty calm right now and made my boundaries clear. I would be willing to give it another go but only with some SERIOUS therapeutic intervention that he so sorely needs. I think at this point he’s actually questioning himself but who knows! I just don’t want to let myself get sucked into false hope for this relationship and start a cycle of obsessing about him again. So, I won’t!! I’ll continue to move on. The balls in his court and he’s completely clear as to what he needs to do to re-enter my life namely, work to resolve his EUM and commitment phobic issues. Rright now I feel good about things. I hope I feel the same way in the morning! Comments PLEASE!!
@Serena I replied there lol.
@cece – yeah – it’s a shocker isn’t it. That makes you still in your twenties right? How great that you had this lesson early, the world is your oyster 🙂
@ Meant – exactly!!!!! I do find myself missing him as I remember him (and I was not entirely blind to his faults, I was susceptible to knowing he was so sad inside tho). However, that person I loved couldn’t have sat listening to me suffering and telling him deeply difficult things to say, but the man he really is did. I am pretty sure by now he is really missing me, I am also relatively sure the reasons why are not ones I like – but in the end it’s the same. I don’t check my mail like I did or rather yes I check my mail but it’s for work purposes. I don’t check my mobile phone and then feel the world drop out of my stomach when it’s empty. The calm that other women have mentioned on the site is very real and very tangible, and a million times better than the rollercoaster (I don’t want those highs again … not THOSE highs).
Serena, I could have written your letter almost exactly. At some point with the sabotaging EUM you finally get to a point where you cannot put up with the insanity anymore. As far as I can tell, you have a total grasp on the situation and are being more than kind and fair and to both of you.
Regarding therapy, I came to a similar conclusion, but decided that without a third party present, I cannot begin to engage with the EUM again. A third party would be needed to keep it real and honest, to set goals with the intention of getting rid of the avoidance, confusing and destructive behavior, This is where it really helps to know your heart because this therapy a huge commitment for to people to engage in. You really have to have some faith that the EUM is up to the challenge, because all their past behaviors seem to indicate they are not.
@ meant and regina, thanks for the hugs and meant, for your view of me as together. It’s been a rough few years of me being anything but together, but finding this site in late December was the beginning of getting it together. I am grateful for all the insights I receive from everyone here.
@Serena – “I asked him what he wanted out of the relationship. He said, then, now, or later and then couldn’t answer when pressed.†– this response (or rather non-response) is the kind of avoidance of real issues that can drive one crazy when dealing with EUM`s!!! Why did he bother coming to talk to you when he didn`t even have this much clear? I think you did a great job of setting boundaries, and letting him know what the major issues are/were in your relationship. That’s interesting that *he* doesn’t trust *you* – how can he have a healthy relationship with you if he can’t even trust you? I’m not sure what he has done to deserve *your* trust, though, but I don’t know the whole story, as others have mentioned. You said the problem was “all with himâ€, but I would like to suggest that earlier on in the relationship, you may have contributed to some “issues†in the relationship, even if it was just through accepting his crappy behaviour for a while. I’m glad to see you’re not accepting it any more – good for you!!! I think the fact that you felt calm after the conversation is a very good sign – a lessening of anxiety after telling him your thoughts hopefully indicates that you are being true to yourself and your intuition in what you told him. You have decided to return to NC unless he makes it very clear he wants to commit/make changes in his behaviour which sounds like a very assertive and healthy thing to do to me, anyway (not that I’m an expert or anything, just a fellow FBG). Please keep us posted on how things go, and once again, kudos to you for being so strong!!!
@cece – “Has anyone else experienced this – looking back at their ex EUM and seeing him in a completely different light, now that you are forced to read his actions or inactions and are no longer blinded by what we perceived as “love†– yes, most definitely!!! When I first found this site in late May after I did a Google search for ‘emotionally unavailable’, I had been soooo confused about my ex-EUM`s behaviours. Reading NML`s lists of EU behaviour gave me goosebumps, as they fit my guy so well!!! I agreed with someone`s ìdea that they must be given a handbook of `How to be a EUM`, lol. So now that I have read so many posts and comments here, I see him in a completely different light – and light is the key word – I feel enlightened! I fully realize now that I was taken in by an illusion, and now I am questioning whether or not I ever loved him, or whether it was just a “relationship addiction“ as Robin Norwood would say. I am still processing how I let myself be used like that, and trying to recover so that I never allow it again. It is so helpful to know that I`m not alone though!
@Butterfly – “the calm that other women have mentioned on the site is very real and very tangible, and a million times better than the rollercoaster (I don’t want those highs again … not THOSE highs).†– YAH, I don’t want THOSE highs either – they are *not* worth the horrible lows!!!!!
Reading all your posts it seems that we all have been involved with one and the same guy !!!!
It is such an amazing thing that those EUM and Assclowns are ALL behaving in the same way. They even say the same things. Because of this and with all this knowledge you can figure them out early on and if meeting the next Assclown or EUM you know right away and don’t need to waste time and emotion on them.
And please never ever settle for the “better than nothing ” I rather stay single for the rest of my life than falling for the Assclown again
I am 47 years old with no children and have a history of EUM, Assclowns and Narcissist
@MARIE
“How could I have known from the beginning he was catering to my negativities if in fact he presented himself to be completely different from the other men I had met?”
Yes I am totally with you on this one. It’ll be great if NML write a post exactly about this. In fact this is the very thing that is still in a way holding me back! I have NC but I still wonder how much of a conartist a guy can be in order to get what they want and then they keep you wondering. I have also thought about the possibility that these men hate women so much due to past failures and rejections and bad experiences with women that they made a complet turn around and decided that they will not take any woman seriously and stab her in the back instead, just to get some sort of “revenge”. I could be right or a I could be wrong. Dont know, all I know is I did not deserved to be treated unfairly when I showed him I was genuine with my feelings.
@kat, Marie et al …
Download her book. 🙂
@Meant it’s great watching your posts changing. It really is – seeing you get stronger with each passing day gives me hope that I will too. I realise that every setback makes me hop right back into the “OMG that is over now noooo” mindset even if only subconciously, and I am being quite stern with myself.
@kat – it’s very easy to wonder about whether they have been hurt or not but to turn that around if we are attracted to EU types because we are emotionally unavailable (and I see now where this came in with me personally, running away when scared – he even SAID to me once “you’re just scared” when I was trying to end things because they felt bad) then it goes hand in hand that they are also attracted to us and that we are their bad penny in reverse.
I’m remembering when we were talking about me visiting him. We didn’t make any plans, he didn’t seem to want to plan it but he was very insistant that I stay with him (I knew I wasn’t in danger ladies, seriously) rather than the first night in a hotel. He said to me “yeah well if you don’t like me then I’ll just open the door when we’re driving past the Super 8” andI laughed cos he was being “funny” but there was this cynical edge in his voice.
The true him.
It’s how they are tho, but when you remember you’ll see that there were definite signs along the way. Just don’t analyse too much, look back too much or let yourself become like them in response – I actually think that’s the hard part, not allowing yourself to develop patterns as devastating to others as you’ve experienced yourself in order to protect yourself.
Ooops …
@Serena from the other post. I still applaud you, clear goals well expressed. Would I sound like a bitch if I said I hope you DON’T get your man? He even knows that coming to see you was selfish, although his expression of it may also be just so much flim flam. I truly do think that these guys read the same advice as we do so they learn how to make the right noises. Stay strong … I am so glad there is an extra 1500 miles between him and I these days, if he lived here it would be horrible.
That being said there was the guy here I started “very casually” seeing before I came on the site. I had the last date with him last Sunday, didn’t really enjoy it and he’s gone from running mega hot to silence. I’m pretty sure that this is a combination of ass-clownery and a different vibe I was giving out to when he first met me (he said he was fascinated by how much he could see I had adapted and changed already). Total silence from loads and loads of texts every day etc… yes I know lol … and even though I don’t much like the man anyway it galls me that him not contacting me seems like a personal affront. Time to change thinking!!! It’s GOOD that he hasn’t, saves me having to tell him some unpleasant truths.
He ain’t worth it Serena. Just bear that in mind, his visit to you was all about him expecting to get “Oh great you’re working on yourself, oh you are so wonderful”.
@Butterfly
What you’re saying makes a lot of sense. However, I still find it difficult to digest the fact that I could be just like him when in fact I had shown him the very opposite.
I guess the only logical sense I have come to realise is that he showed red flags (at the beggining) that weren’t so apparent at that point for me to label them as red flags and I foolishly fall for it.
“”he even SAID to me once “you’re just scared†when I was trying to end things because they felt bad) then it goes hand in hand that they are also attracted to us and that we are their bad penny in reverse.””
I’m a little confused about this part in your post. Isn’t it a good thing to end things when you’re scared? because being scared means something inside was warning you to get away from the situation. So i am not sure if I took this the wrong way.
In my case I broke up with him because of the limbo (disrecpect, assclownery) I was being dragged into and as a result me feeling very unhappy and uncomfortable with the situation. In a way i feel empowered that I broke up with him because I feel this was my “revenge” since he expected me to accept things as they were with no effort on his part to work on things out. To that, I replied kicking him out of my place.
So My question is, how was he attracted to me knowing exactly how mature, independent and strong I am? I am not perfect, I have my ups and downs but for the most part I have my self esteem in the right place. He obviously had to PRETEND to be someone nice at first for me to notice him.
He was not an AC before (at least didn’t show it at the beggining), he turned 360 degrees when things started to get serious. I dont want to overthink this, but it will be very helpful for me to understand the theory of:
“you are the mirror of him” How?!
@aphrogirl — What I meant was, he has to be self-motivated to go to therapy and get rid of his EUM baggages all on his own. He has to see it, own it, and want to change it. He may have a glimpse of himself but I don’t think he’s seeing the big picture. I’ve never thought I could fix it and always knew he would have to deal with it on his own for the relationship to progress.
@Meant to be Happy — the trust issue reagarding him not trusting me is something I suspected but never knew until I threw it out there last night. That issue is all his because I’ve NEVER done anything to violate his trust. He knows this too. That issue comes from something in his past that he needs to recognize and deal with. The big problem IS all with him!! I DID set boundaries, firm ones for the most part. He’s scared to take it to the next level because “what if. . . what if . . .what if. . .” It’s either early abandonment issues or hearbreak from a previous relationship or a combination. But that’s for him to figure out if he chooses. I do take responsibility for choosing to remain in the relationship and my addiction to my feelings and fantasy that he might eventually look in the mirror and want to change (NOT me change him, there’s a difference!). Remember, he’s middle-aged now and that lifestyle isn’t quite as easy or appealing as they age. However, that said, I did not reinforce his hot/cold behavior and I take no responsiblity for the demise of the relationship. He sabotaged it and now admits it. Finally, his avoidance to answering the questions about what he wants then, now, and later clearly shows an unwillingness to risk emotional vulnerability for fear of being hurt. Well buckaroo Ass-EUM, that’s what it takes to be in a healthy relationship.
@Butterfly — I don’t think his intention in visiting me was to impress me with his progress. Remember, he pressed the breakup saying my feelings would grow and his wouldn’t. Rather, I think it was to test the waters and see where I’m at. It’s the ambivalence, “I can’t commit to being with her, I can’t commit to being without her.” What he met with was my boundaries have not changed, in fact they’ve gotten stronger, coupled with presenting him with a golden shovel of sorts, to shovel out his own shit. He only accomplished shoveling out about 10%. There’s loads left if he’s up to the task. But the great thing is, it lives with him, not with me!! Since the move, there’s 150 miles between him and me and I’m glad there’s at least that! Druing the conversation I did ask him, “Did you come here for an ego stroke?” and “Did you come here to assuage your guilt?” He was very irritated by those questions.
PS If you really don’t think you have an interest in the guy probably best to cut him loose now.
I have been reading NML book,what a great book 🙂 What hurted me most about my EUM is that he would act as if being with me was a bother.He would want short time together and when we were together he would act like if everything else was more interesting than me.For example if we were alone at his apartament the TV always had to be on and if I asked to put off he would complain.When we were out playing pool he would pay much more atention on the other tables than on ours,there were a lot of times that he missed when I made a good play because he was looking to somebody else playing.When we chatted he would act like if he couldnt wait to go away too.Anyway that damaged my self esteem and made me fell like Im not good or interesting to be with.Anybody knows how I can overcome that?
Sorry Serena maybe I wasn’t clear (very humid here today, my brain is obn holiday) – totally agree with your assessment of him, a “poke” to see what the reaction is. I was saying I hope you don’t think I am a bitch for wanting you not to get back with him, I think you know why I’d wish that for you. You deserve better 🙂 Dude has been told the lie of the land hence the silence, no doubt he will turn back up when there’s nothing better.
One of my students – one no one likes much, incidentally – described his best friend as being a butterfly going from flower to flower (I’m ignoring the obvious here lol) and I do think this is what these arseholes think … gotta keep moving on …
@kat yes I struggled with that too, and how I went from very strong and assertive to this wrecked bag of nerves, tears and guilt. Can’t stress it enough, Natalie makes it very clear in her book.
@Anusha – by spending time with better people and by doing things just for you. Mine was like that too but if I tried to leave then he bitched like crazy, I couldn’t go LEAVE him etc … they are children.
Sorry! Meant to say, Serena, he will turn back up and find out I am no more amenable to idiocy than I was last weekend lol.
@Butterfly – thanks for suggesting I’m getting stronger every day. Sometimes it doesn’t feel like it (for example, when I’m tempted to send him a work-related email, even when it’s not really needed, just so I can “communicate” with him, which I have NOT carried thru with BTW) but when I feel weak, I just come here and read and learn.
@Serena – “I’ve NEVER done anything to violate his trust.” – that’s what I suspected, and so yes, he does seem to have major trust issues originating in his past.
“I do take responsibility for choosing to remain in the relationship and my addiction to my feelings and fantasy:” – that’s great – you seem to have a good awareness.
“I take no responsibility for the demise of the relationship.” – OK, that’s fine, but I guess I hope you still engage in self-reflection (like we all need to sometimes) if only for the reason that there are always 2 people involved in a relationship, and I always feel that every single one of us can strive to be just that little bit healthier 🙂
“his avoidance to answering the questions about what he wants then, now, and later clearly shows an unwillingness to risk emotional vulnerability for fear of being hurt.” – yes, exactly my point (although I posed it as a rhetorical question), the whole crux of the EU issue!!! Best of luck to you in standing by your firm boundaries. You go girl!!!
Ohh, you guys, I’m having such a hard day today. I’m 5 weeks NC – except for a little text from him when he knew I’d be in town – I responded, but was simply polite and chilly and didn’t see or hear from him again (except two blanket text/jokes), nor he me. I know…not technically NC, but I’m back on the wagon and it’s great for me! Anyways…I went to a bbq this weekend, and found out that he’s “talking” to another mutual girlfriend. She mentioned it while we were talking about him and I (he “cheated” on me ((we weren’t in a formal relationship of course)) with an old friend). SHE brought up the topic. I feel like he is effing everywhere! Of course this girl blamed the entire “cheating” scenario on the cheap and slutty old friend, and defended AC by saying he was “just really out-going, and totally powerless to this cheap slut”. And, “There was nothing he could do.” Uh, ya think she likes him maybe? Blinders maybe? I closed my mouth quickly, but felt like my heart was breaking. I mean…who is safe? Seriously? I have so much hurt, and so much rage. I know I have to contain it, and it will pass, but GD it! This is just ridiculous. It just doesn’t stop with these guys. Sorry. Had to vent today!
I must be friends with a bunch of FBGs eh? What a mess that makes.
@PlanetJane — I WAS 5 weeks NC until yesterday like you. Don’t feel bad Planet Jane, you’ve only got a couple of lines of text to scramble your brain instead of the SHOCK of a surpirise visit and 2 hours of clap-trap that keeps pinging my brain all day as I try to focus away from it!! As the day goes on and the pings keep pinging I see it’s the same old bag of mixed messages as always! Ping. . . I just remembered, he threw in during the course of this crazy conversation what my kids would do if I moved in with him!!! (They’re grown, in college, 1 in boarding school). But WOWZER!! We’re not even back in a relationship and he’s posing this question??!! It’s laughable!! Ping. . . here’s a good one!! He tells me a guy (my note: emotionally healthy) who was part of his rec. group when he was here who I met once asked him whether we were together. My EUM-ASS answered “No.” The gentleman responded, “Then you used her for sex.” My EX-ASS EUM was offended and wanted to say, “No, she used me for sex.” but instead answered “No. That’s not what happened.” My EX-ASS knows we were more than F-buddies but he acted like one in the way he left the relationship!! A gentleman called him out on it and he didn’t get it at all!! That’s because he hasn’t a clue of what honorable behavior in a couples relationship is!! Just remember when your brain used to go “ping” with all this crap and be glad you have NC or a limited text while I continue to try to flush this toxic substance out of my system! I NEVER dreamed he would arrive on my doorstep out of the blue like that after 5 weeks NC!
@Planet Jane
Wow, your EUM does get around, doesn’t he? Good thing you are “back on the NC wagon” to protect yourself from any more hurt from him. Do you think you also need to tell your friends not to discuss him with you? If you are going to experience heartbreak every time you hear of his lates exploits, maybe it’s better not to hear about it? just a thought.
You’re right, it just doesn’t stop with these guys – they always seem to be outdoing themselves with *more* poor behaviour!!! Stay strong Planet Jane. Hugs to you…
Im having a low day today.Im just afraid I might never find somebody else.I guess is because I have been thinking about how my ex used to treat me and how long it took for me to find a guy that wanted to have a relationship with me.Before him I liked 4 guys that didnt like me back so I was pretty much without hope that I would ever find a guy to be my bf and then he came up seeming to want a relationship with me.Like I said before my dating experiences didnt go much well so Im afraid again that it might take a long time for me to find another bf.I realy want to be loved and have a good relationship but sometimes I think I will never find one.
Meant to be happy,
Thank you. I think you’re right…it would be best for me not to hear about him. I’m so sensitive right now. Even if they are just “friends” – which is what he calls all his girls – it’s going to get to me and hurt me. I wish we hadn’t talked about it. That will be another rule for a while.
I’m really going through a period of extreme rage. Like, I actually want to kill the guy. Don’t worry – I’m not going to do it 😉 But I don’t know what to do with myself. Exercise is all I can think of that might help, and maybe a punching bag if I had one. But, has anyone else experienced this???
And it’s funny, a lot of people are thinking I’m actually in a GOOD mood, because I’ve been depressed over my eum for so long – the anger looks like, well it probably is, energy.
Anusha,
I’m also worried that I’ll never find someone. I want very much to be in a loving relationship. But if I’m really honest with myself, I know I’m not ready now. I also know, that if we ever hope to be in a good, non-abusive relationship, we HAVE to be able to be on our own…alone. Otherwise, we will be too willing to sacrifice, just to have someone…anyone around. And we will begin this cycle of fantasy and abuse all over again. I think that is the most important lesson I’ve learned in all of this, is that I HAVE to love myself each day, and that if I NEVER find someone…I’ll be ok. I’ll be great.
It is SO tempting to medicate the feelings of loss…and rage with another relationship – it’s what I’ve always done in the past – but I’ve always felt trapped in those same relationships, wondering if I would be happier single. I’m going to stay with it this time. I hope you do too!
@Serena
“He tells me a guy (my note: emotionally healthy) who was part of his rec. group when he was here who I met once asked him whether we were together. My EUM-ASS answered “No.†The gentleman responded, “Then you used her for sex.†My EX-ASS EUM was offended and wanted to say, “No, she used me for sex.†but instead answered “No. That’s not what happened.†My EX-ASS knows we were more than F-buddies but he acted like one in the way he left the relationship!! A gentleman called him out on it and he didn’t get it at all!! That’s because he hasn’t a clue of what honorable behavior in a couples relationship is!!”
Yep. I’m there with ya. I feel like everyone in our circle…and his Sister (which I feel really bad about) knows that what he’s done is gross, and unacceptable – and all he can say is, “you don’t understand” – but I have to admit…always…that I’m just as much to blame as I allowed it. Yes, I was delusional, but I’m an adult and I did allow it. Yes, I’m ashamed and embarassed – he should be more so and isn’t – but I can move on and vow that it will NEVER happen again.
I think if more people – especially fbgs – called these ACs out on their behavior – like your gentleman acquaintance did – there would be less ACs in the world.
I really commend ALL the women in here – all of you are SO STRONG!!! — Just like Tao *in chinese philosophy* – like water..soft but can NOT be broken!!!! You’re SO MUCH STRONGER than you realize!!!!
As women (me included, oh so meeeee!!!!), why do we always feel the need to explain, to rationalize, to pour our hearts out, to share our innermost nitty gritty thoughts in hope a light bulb would go off and *DING!!!*, the Beast would change into a normal decent guy (forget prince lol)!!! Hard fact — THE BEAST WILL REMAIN A BEAST!!!! (And beauty will remain beauty – us cool classy women;))
Mailed letter to the online ex last Weds 7/29th…5 days later…not a beep…wondering if he got letter.
Odd…can’t tell if am missing him or not – *self* – do I miss him???? This is a guy who I profess to love and can’t live without the last 6 months (and he I), and it’s only been 2 weeks, I’m supposed to be miserable, pathetic, and dying from heartache…why do i feel FINE????? Why am I not even a teeny tweeny tempted to call him?? Why am I enjoying this chocolate ice cream and loving every minute of this hilarious cartoon (Tom & Jerry lol)?? Ran out of coffee this morning, missed my morning coffee more than i miss him!!! I know i reallyyyyyyyyyyy reallyyyyyyyyyyyy love a guy when i need/want him more than my morning coffee…do I want him more than my morning coffee??? Hmmmmm…..
MorningCoffee,
Hmmmm. I remember, you sent him a letter proclaiming your love right? And wanting a commitment? And nothing? Not a text, an IM an email? Hmmmm. And you don’t really seem to mind. Maybe that should tell you something. Good for you!!
And I’m buying some ice cream tonight! Ben & Jerry’s Phish Food! 😀
I know I don’t really miss my xeum (5 weeks NC). And I certainly don’t miss being in the limbo of wondering when the pathetic loser is gonna call or deign me with his presence. And I don’t miss him insulting me, calling me names and kicking my self-esteem to the ground so he can feel better about himself – all in the name of a joke and good fun – I finally realize I don’t NEED him, and after that it was easy to determine, I don’t WANT him either. But that was yesterday…and I’m still wrestling in my mind with all sorts of love, pain, self-esteem issues – which tells me: It’s all me now.
Thanks for the water analogy. It’s nice.
@Planet Jane – “I’m really going through a period of extreme rage….has anyone else experienced this???” YES, YES, AND YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!! Of course we’ve all felt this ugly monster! See, you’re normal after all;) It’s normal to go through an episode of wanting to sucker punch the wind out of the dork! I felt it for 5 fleeting seconds…then i caught myself thinking, “I’m wayyyyyyyy too classy for this!!!” Then magically, the storm disappeared..if we do/think what’s right, it feels so good inside and toxic emotions cannot touch this layer of goodness within us.
@Anusha– “Im having a low day today.” Awwwww *huggiezzzzzzzzzzz* from far. We all have low days (mine comes and goes in mini minutes and seconds…never an entire day). When you’re having those sappy days, write your heart out here, unleash all those rotten thoughts so it doesn’t gag and choke ya. Oh it also helps to cry too…admit you’re having a low day, bawl your eyes out, then have a bowl of ice cream;) Remember, U R STRONG!!!! U CAN AND U WILL DO THIS!!! WITH THE REST OF US!!!! 😉
Ha ha! Sucker punch the wind out of the dork? I’m dreaming about squeezing the breath out of the piece of sh*t with a telphone cord until his feet twitch, or a hypodermic needle (filled with some particularly painful concoction) to the heart while whispering, “Don’t worry sweetie, nobody will miss you.” Sorry – graphic imagination here. I would NEVER do this…STG…but I’m one pi$$ed of b*tch. “Hell hath no fury like a woman scorned.” Ha ha. But thanks for sayin it’s normal. 😀 And you’re right…it DID pass…or does. I feel better now.
@PlanetJane — I mailed him a letter & told him to “stop seeing the other person COMPLETELY if he still wants to be together!” – a nice, polite, gentle ultimatum;) I figured snail mail is nice..when I’m upset, i don’t talk or yell…I get cold and silent and don’t communicate. Nothing…he doesn’t text or email…he normally calls…he’s probably upset since i didn’t return his last 3 voicemails (prior to the letter). Oh well, no hard feelingzzzzzzz, i can be just as uncommunicative *evil grin* 😉
Wow, 5 weeks is a long time!!! I would forget my ex’s name by then jk lol. You’re doing Grreeeaaaaattttttttttttttt!!!! Nah, you don’t miss all the BS, you miss the beginning when things were good, those blissful moments, those wonderful “feeling”..and it’s okay to miss those moments – that’s what makes it so freakin’ hard to let go!! Don’t deny it, enjoy it, butttttttttttttt acknowledge the NOW. That was then, this is NOW! He’s not worth it! NO ONE who treats you miserably is worth it! NO ONE!!! *Huggiezzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz*:)
@metsgirl
…wow, how incredible it is to go to a website and feel so much understanding and support. As I read down this list of posts tonight an overwhelming urge to be in the same room with everyone washed over me. Not to Man Bash, but to encourage and reaffirm for each other our God given value and worth. As I grow older I cherish the soul connections with my girlfriends more and more; I drink in their strength and breathe in their wisdom. Thanks metsgirl, and all of you, for sharing your journeys with me, offering courage and resolve in the area I need it the most and possess it the least. We are not alone 🙂
@flygirl,
I have imagined us all being in the same room, too!! For the positive reasons you mentioned. I sometimes have a picture in my mind of what everyone looks like, and it would be awesome to actually meet some of you. Altho I’m sure it would be strange – like seeing a movie after reading a book. Anyway, I agree with your appreciation of the support here flygirl, even though we meet in a “virtual room”, the strength and support feels real. Thanks for sharing your journey with us too 🙂
To Planet Jane:
I’m learning that the stage of rage is necessary because it reminds us that we don’t want to go back to where we came from! Even as many months as I’ve been getting past this relationship, I still have fleeting moments of rage where I remember how much I trusted in someone and gave so much of myself only to be lied to and shit on, but I just try to be more aware now. I have a smarter view when I meet men.
And to Flygirl, I look so normal that you’d pass me on the street and you would never remember you saw me. I’m not fat or skinny, I don’t dress flashy or dumpy. I don’t wear make-up, and I’m always clean. When I was a bit younger and in shape, people always mistakenly thought that I was some “famous” swimming olympic-type lady, but I’m older now and just tall and normal looking.
I’m hoping that someday some decent man can possibly appreciate that I don’t try to look like anything than who I am. Maybe there is a guy out there like that, too, hoping that there is a woman who can look past the outside and see how cool he is even when no one else seems to notice.
Until then, I’m just going to keep living and giving to the people around me the best I know how.
I appreciate reading and learning from everyone’s insight here on this site.
Sorry, now I just reread and realized I should have been responding to “meant to be happy” about physical appearance.
And, also, I love your new screen name.
@lisa
The way you described yourself could describe me. I do wear a bit of makeup to work, but otherwise everything else fits 🙂 I am tall too – almost 5 ft 9in. I do not put a lot of emphasis on appearance either, and wouldn’t want a man who expected me to look ‘perfect’ all the time – I do believe real beauty lies within. And thanks for the feedback on the name change – I was feeling somewhat negative about the name “notmeanttobe” so changed it to “Meant to be Happy” as a celebration of progress on this journey to a happier me. Here’s to happiness for all of us…
I woke up from a nap today with the insight that so many of us who have written here felt that the EUM was *the one* and lay there wondering how that could have happened, especially since not only have I never felt that way about someone before, but I also have never really known anyone quite so so cheap and stingy in any relationship I have ever had.
Anyone who has read my writing knows I am full of theories, here is mine on this * the one* business. The EUM specializes in vagueness, ambiguity and cowardice in handling emotion. This leaves it wide open for us to interpret how they really feel about the relationship, and we go on and make up the ideal scenario to fill in the gap that comes from the lack of substance. So, some of us, inexperienced with this sort of thing, because they really do not give much of anything useful of substance to go on, foolishly create *the one*, which of course, is a total fantasy. Turns out it takes a good bit of work to come out of the fantasy.
Relatedly, someone wrote something wise here a bit back ” If we can create a prince out of an AC what can we NOT do ? ” Funny and so true.. I now see that power, which really is some force to be reckoned with, and plan to use it to focus on reality and assessment in the future. If there is anything to be created with another person its a true evaluation of what healthy things are being given and received in any relationship.
Carry on, wiser women everywhere :-))
@ butterfly – thanks I’m trying to see the world as my oyster, only thing is it is a whole new ball game now – I’m 30 and I feel like old and tired of men.
@ planet jane – my range is reoccuring, every three months or so I become so angry that I don’t sleep properly or eat properly for weeks -and then cry for days on end. I’m at the tail end of the lastest episode think I lost another 5 pounds, I wrote the AC a letter expressing to him the pain I still have to live with – no response! What a surprise – three days prior he told me how much he will always care about me – this only added to my rage
@cece well that will pass too, just go do stuff you like, buy yourself something you enjoy wearing etc. Leave him alone 🙂 Just leave him alone – mine “thought he would always love me” two weeks before he pulled exactly the same crap yet again. I know he’s sad now. I know he feels bad. It is irrelevant in terms of being about me because if it was about me he wouldn’t have done it in the first place: it’s all about him.
If you contact HIM and chase him even to tell him that he is hurting you then you are stroking his ego. Yep, weird as it seems, you are giving him attention and telling him that you are still into him.
Unlike you ladies I am not “average”, being that I am fat I am noticeable in this day and age. Even if I wasn’t fat, I’m noticable and memorable, apparently. I treasure what people say about me, that I am always cheerful (don’t feel it!), that I am warm and kind and that they feel safe with me because I am open. In my job that’s crucial …
Actually again @ cece – honey, join the gym. Make yourself go there. Use the sauna and steam rooms, the jacuzzi. Trust me, it will help, your body is experiencing “flight or fight” and working out really is very very therapeutic. Go for a walk on a nice day, with your ipod, and maybe read a book in a cafe or park where you are safe.
Wow! What a fabulous post about compatibility or lack thereof.
I’m feeling very strong at the moment about a man who did the bait and switch thing with me. He seemed interested in the conventional sense and then just wanted to be friends which I accepted. He is of a practical bent and has helped me with a number of things and I’ve done the same for him. The thing is he’s continued the flirty-flirty thing but if I’d responded he would probably go “I’m not that kind of friend”. So he’d get to have a bit of a flirt but could then do the touch me not thing if it suited him.
I’ve been playing it very cool with him but some more information has come to light that I think means he has a string of female ‘friends’ like this including an old friend (read ex) who is a massage therapist that he goes to once a week for a massage (a standing appointment). I think either one or both of them isn’t being honest about what they want because a massage is a very intimate thing to receive from just a friend. Hell I don’t massage any of my male friends who visit me.
Anyway last night I came home from a meeting with my daughter in tow and there he was waiting in my driveway waiting to return some of my stuff he had borrowed. I offered him a coffee and was cordial but cool. I was then regaled with his masseuse friend’s massage technique. Talk about the ultimate show-off. I said to him it sounded plain weird and kinky. So yeah, he came around for a stroke.
Now I’m just over this stuff and am going to let the friendship lapse as we don’t have regular contact and it’s usually only by text or email and I feel so strong because I’m not interested – not even as a friend -heck he can hump the neighbour’s dog until his tongue falls out for all I care.
During the conversation the talk turned to fixing stuff and he just had to do the “wanna screw?” joke. If my daughter had been at her Dad’s I’d have straddled him and said, “OK, cowboy – let’s do it – right here, right now,” looked him straight in the eye and then would have backed off saying “just kidding.” He probably would’ve freaked but it would be so funny, ’cause I could trip him up on the way out the door.
Got a date this weekend with a guy who is 29 (I’m 44) who is cool with my age – anyway it’s just a date, not marriage. You can’t imagine how much I’m looking forward to some hopefully pleasant male company even if things don’t move forward and I won’t be backwards in coming forwards in telling this guy about it if he contacts me – will give him something to think about.
All’s fair in love and war and sometimes a dose of medicine needs to administered to people like this – now if only I had a dominatrix outfit -but then he’d probably like it too much!
To Lisa and Planet Janet – sometimes it is lonely especially if you have a lot to offer but it’s better to have your own heart and soul intact rather than gamble them on useless tossers and let’s face we’ve all been there a lot.
PlanetJane and MorningCoffee thank you for your support 🙂
I think maybe Im not ready yet too after all I just started working on my self esteem,having boundaries and so on but I dont like the idea of being alone.All my life I had been involved with a guy being it a relationship or just daydreaming about a guy I was in love with (so still emotionaly invested and having a relationship with him on my head).Maybe that is why I got where Im now? Sometimes I think I should just forget about relationships for a while but for me that is so hard to do.
@aphrogirl – “The EUM specializes in vagueness, ambiguity and cowardice in handling emotion. This leaves it wide open for us to interpret how they really feel about the relationship, and we go on and make up the ideal scenario to fill in the gap that comes from the lack of substance.†– this is making a lot of sense to me. My ex would say vague things like “who knows what the future will bring†when we were discussing whether or not he would leave his wife. He rarely said he loved me, but had “strong feelings†that he couldn’t express, except physically. So I think I projected my own feelings onto him, and built him up into something he wasn’t, although I never really allowed myself to think he was “the one†– probably because he was already married and so not likely to ride off into the sunset with *me*. I like your theory though.
“Turns out it takes a good bit of work to come out of the fantasy.†– this is an understatement!
@Butterfly (and cece) – I agree with your advice to cece. Exercise is a great way to get rid of the effects of negative feelings on the body. Personally, I don’t have the discipline to go to a gym regularly, but I really enjoy dance classes as a way to work out, so really, whatever form of exercise floats your boat is great. I am *never* in a bad mood after dance class! And Butterfly, I know you said you have been good with going to the gym, and that you have lost some weight because *you* wanted to, not for any man, which is fantastic. I am not surprised your friends describe you as warm and kind and open, as that’s how you come across in your comments to others on here.
@Snook – “All’s fair in love and war and sometimes a dose of medicine needs to administered to people like this – now if only I had a dominatrix outfit -but then he’d probably like it too much!†– yes, I suspect my ex would like that, too! Or maybe something to tie *me* up with… (ewww)
@Planet Jane – I also feel that rage sometimes, and imagine ways in which I could let him know how angry I am about how he has treated me. But then, 10 minutes later, I feel like emailing him to ask him a question about a hobby that we’re both interested in. So I don’t know *what* stage of the grieving process I’m in!!! I’m a little confused 😛