Last week I asked readers “Do you have boundaries in your relationships?” which threw up some interesting comments. I want to continue to address the issue of the lack of boundaries in relationships and the significant impact that it can have on your health and the types of relationship that you engage in.
One reader, ARulesGirl2TheEnd encapsulated the whole boundary issue when she said “My mum taught me about boundaries when I was in my teens; she told me to think of it as a kind of Me Club. Set the rules of the club and when people break those rules, politely ask them to leave.“
At times you will even find that you can’t be polite! The main thing is though, that you do ask them to leave.
What is concerning, as I mentioned in the original post and it was reflected in the comments, is the complete absence of boundaries with women, or in some cases very little.
Boundaries are required for all relationships – that’s friends, family, colleagues, and lovers. Everyone.
By having boundaries, you teach people how to treat you and regard you, and those that don’t play ball and cross or bash the boundary lines, get turfed out of your club.
I often find that women who have poor relationships fall into two camps:
They have none or poor boundaries across all of their relationships, or
They have no problem getting medieval on people like their female friends but clamp up around men.
Men don’t deserve special treatment like their kids or pets that don’t know better!
Every relationship you have requires that you have boundaries in place. Boundaries act as your guiding light and you know whether to pass ‘go’ and collect £200, whether you should hang back or proceed with caution, or whether you should take a parachute and jump because you need to abort the mission.
When you have boundaries, you get alerted to inappropriate or downright unacceptable behaviour and you act upon the signal created by having boundaries in place because you listen to yourself, make a judgement, and act upon it.
But how do I set boundaries?
Once you know you have none or very little boundaries, you have to put boundaries in place and the easiest way to do this is by learning to say ‘NO’.
‘NO’ is not a dirty word! Life is not about being a yes person and rolling over so you can be walked all over and kicked whilst you are down. Being in a relationship is not about being a martyr!
The word ‘NO’ allows you to respect you…and for others to respect you. Nobody can say yes all the time and regardless of whatever warped messaging is telling us the contrary, nobody expects you to say yes all the time…unless they’re an assclown.
Ask yourself, ‘What am I not prepared to accept in a relationship?’ so that you can define your boundaries.
If you can’t think of something, you know something’s really, really wrong, because we can all find at least ten things that are a serious no-go for a relationship!
If you accept everything that comes your way, how would you make the decision to opt out?
The truth is, if you’re a woman who’s like a dog with a bone and won’t opt out and instead is expecting him to change, for him to become like you think he should be, or just cruising along blaming yourself and accepting that life and men are sh*t, you have no boundaries.
Boundaries force you to be accountable and take responsibility for your own happiness…or your misery.
We’re often scared of having boundaries as if being a pushover who is all accepting is a really attractive quality because we’re scared of being alone, scared of trusting our judgement, scared that he’ll magic into The Ideal Man if we tell him to take a run and jump, and just plain scared of saying ‘NO’.
This is like being scared of assigning value to yourself.
So go back to basics….
What should you be saying no to?
What do you want to say no to right now but can’t get the words out?
What makes you feel miserable and taken advantage of?
What are your consistent negative threads (your patterns) in your relationships and what has it taught you about what is and isn’t acceptable?
Ask yourself if you’re a ‘yes’ person and what could you cut back on
– one woman I spoke with cut back on her ‘yes’ instinct and injected a ‘no’ into her day by literally, for every 9 yes’ saying no, and then introducing more. She found it excruciating initially but at the same time empowering and people adjusted around her. Guess what? She’s happier.
Are you pretending to be happy and grimacing your way through life? You know when you smile but it’s a tight one, or the smile doesn’t reach your eyes because you’re in turmoil within? What is bugging you?
Do you have boundaries in other areas of your life such as with family and friends? What can you apply to your relationships with men?
And I should say, often there is very little difference between the fundamental boundaries and you shouldn’t be prepared to accept more shit in your life because it has a penis and testicles hanging off the end of it…
List your potential boundaries that have arisen through your introspection – you’ll find that a number cross into each other and can be summarised into one boundary. The likelihood is that you should be able to find at least ten things that are major nono’s for you
The important thing though, is that whatever happens, you need to ensure that you enforce boundaries because that is the true test of them – that you live by them. It’s incredibly empowering and what you’ll find surprising is that saying no or opting out of situations that cross your boundaries, actually feels good.
Don’t spend your time trying to analyse the crap out of his behaviour and make excuses for it because you’re missing the point – it doesn’t feel good to you. End of. He’s crossed your boundaries. You don’t need to find an excuse for that – you need to process the information and opt out.
Your thoughts?
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NML, this is all so true! Your statement “it’s like being scared of assigning value to yourself” so hit home with me. I have realized that I have been doing this for a long time–not valuing myself and therefore giving those in my life the message that I don’t care enough about myself to set appropriate boundaries to preserve and maintain my own happiness. This is so important, not just with our relationships with men, but with coworkers, friends and family also. Great post, let’s all read this one more than once! 🙂
I am pretty sure I have a decent set of healthy boundaries in place now. The only thing I’m wondering is… if I’m setting them – and men are breaking them so that I walk away – which is big progress for me – how come I’m still not meeting an excellent man ? Or do you just have to kiss a lot of toads first ?
I’m definitely not getting hurt like I used to, but I’m still not attracting a good guy who doesn’t act like an assclown in one way or the other.
That’s what I want to know too Annie!
Annie, Veronica – I think it’s like NML has said in the past — EUM’s are a dime a dozen… They are like the plague of the dating scene, and in our flaky day and age there are tons and tons of them. So yes, you have to kiss a lot of toads. But by becoming more aware of the dangers that await in the dating pool – and finding and maintaining your boundaries as in this post – you learn to avoid swimming with the sharks, er..toads. There will always be EUMs…trying to creep in…play games….and they try their tricks with most every woman, it’s not simply just us meeting the wrong guys (although when we meet them, at least for me, we find that meeting comfortable as mentioned in NML’s past posts), there are just lots of them (and since lots of them are cheating, they statistically are working many more opportunities than the decent guys so maybe that makes it seem like more). But it also doesn’t mean we have to date them. Meeting them and later rejecting them doesn’t mean there is something wrong with us – the rejecting is the healthy part. That means you can say no to crap behavior. Recognize, abort mission, continue looking. Frustrating? Yes. Better than being involved with one? You betcha. We need to still believe in love because there are good men out there.
BBP, right on your comment.
Veronica, Annie,you have to keep on trying until you meet the right one, at least I am not willing to give up. Just don’t make dating a full time job, enjoy life every day and he could just be a nice addition to your life. 🙂
NML, you are so smart. May as well be talking directly to me. I know that I have little to no boundaries. I’m learning, also, that this all started in my childhood, when all decisions were made for me and then as a young adult when all my decisions were judged as bad or wrong. So guess what? Now, at 46, I have an incredibly difficult time making decisions … which must be directly related to me making boundaries for myself. You are doing me and other women like me such a great service by having this site. Your article made me cry – that means it hit home. Lots to think about …
And one more thing! Your last paragraph… “Don’t spend your time trying to analyse the crap out of his behaviour and make excuses for it because you’re missing the point – it doesn’t feel good to you. End of. He’s crossed your boundaries. You don’t need to find an excuse for that – you need to process the information and opt out.”
ME, all over the place. This was me over 2 years ago – he told me he didn’t want a real relationship with me – he told me he didnt’ want his family to know about me – it did NOT feel good to me. I’ve been hurting for all this time and stayed, looking and hoping for change.
He flat out drew his boundaries and I had none! It makes me feel so foolish and ashamed of myself. Just by NOT saying NO, I have wasted so much love and time. I cant do this anymore.
Boundaries are most important, and the ME CLUB works for me and as NML pointed out it is important, however you have to build on it, its also about what you value and what you want for yourself and never settling. I was always in denial about what I wanted, in that if a guy said he wanted to go out and just have fun, I would always say ‘yeah me to’ but the truth always leaked through: I wanted to find my soul mate, someone to walk through life with… always settling for flipperflapping twaty behaviour afraid to be alone. so were back to us. I have a great me club, but men are crafty, you dont tell them ever what your boundaries are like on the first date or later made the mistake with my addict telling him I will not go out with someone who does drugs, errrrrrr big mistake he spent a whole year hiding it, terrrible terrible for me!!! assclown behaviour. Before I met my other half I went out with a bloke who I liked alot, he does alot with teenagers in our area, but he let slip that he likes ‘to party every now and then’ a huge red flag went up ‘abort mission’ I did. We learn from our experiences thats how we build on our ME CLUB rules. Rember the pain you go through is worth something if you learn from it. Also I hear alot about you great women dating and yeah these idiots are two a penny, remember, your looking for one, and just chill with the dating, have fun, sit back and enjoy the ride, because when men F@@@@K up, as they usually do, have fun with it, have a girls chat and laugh about it, men are hilarious at times.
Hi Im Katy, the above woman is my dearest friend, and its because of me she is posting on this blogg. Ladies listen to her and NML because they are so right.
Imstaying with arules girl, she taking care of my wasted heart. I love to watch her and her hubby. Ive known her for , god years, before she got healthy and through a really dark period of her life. I remeber asking her hubby why he fell for her, the reason was not because she was a loving person, and jesus she is, its because , he said, …I knew from the start, she wldnt take any crap…’. Her hubby was someone who loved women and he had his fun but because of her rules and boudaries he fell for hook line and sinker. She knew what she wanted, he knew what she wanted, he had a choice in or out? he stayed.
This one is confusing for me… I feel like I do not fall into a one of these categories. I don’t have boundaries this much I know BUT when someone does something that bothers me for ex. My EUM would say I will be over in 15 and an hour later he would not have shown and have some excuse, I certainly don’t let it slide. I actually fly off the handle and have been told by others in my life that my reactions to thinks seem overblown. However, partly I know this is due to the fact that I am sick of feeling like people can walk all over me.
Now with the EUM this is all I would do as opposed to leaving. So the messege he got in the end is, she will yell but then it’s over and she’s still here. So I get that much. I am not sure what an effective way is of dealing with these things. I mean sometimes people make mistakes, you can’t break up with every single guy just because they make one mistake. So how many chances do you give?
My EUM was flakey for sure, always an excuse but that was a pattern it took me a while to discern. I guess next time I will notice it a bit earlier.
annied- Your not foolish, you love, its a gift, dont ever be ashmed of the gift you have to give. Hes the foolish one. Let him go, with love. You did your best, no-one can ask more. xx
No cant break up with every guy for every mistake they make-unless its in the rules of the me club. examle of some rules I have.
No stand-ups
Call when you say you will
be there on time
NO drugs
No going to the pub after work every night
No other women
Its about sticking to YOUR rules. If you dont like it its a rule end of. Also its about common decency on their part!!! If they cant get the simple things how the hell are they gonna deal with the real stuff!!
I thought I would respond to a couple of the questions on here even though there have been some responses to them – I’ll keep it brief though as my bedtime is calling and anything lengthier is more suited to a post.
Loving Annie – Always remember it’s not about instant results. You build the confidence through applying your boundaries, recognising when they’ve been crossed, applying your judgement, and opting out. Assclowns are ten a penny – you meet less and less of them the further down the road you travel and when you do come across them, you opt out quick time. It’s not about dwelling on each one – I realised my issues and set boundaries and still found myself dating/meeting a few assclowns – the point is that they didn’t last long and when I did meet the boyf, I was very equipped to see him for what he was. I met him when I wasn’t even trying – I would get on with living your life and if you really want to cut down on assclowns, I would keep online dating to a minimum. You grow into this – it’s not one day ‘dark’ next day ‘light and everything is suddenly perfect and Mr Right appears. Mail me if you need me, hugs xx
AnnieD (Hugs) I really feel for you. We all come to things in different ways and what I do know is that at some point, you need to make a decision, and stick with it. It’s the indecision that will kill you (not literally) but it’s incredibly damaging and the thing is that nothing is changing. He has already opted out and the responsibility is now yours to do the same. Don’t be ashamed because you are human, you trust, and you make mistakes, and you get scared. You have to change this pattern though.
Dazedandconfused – A boundary is about unacceptable behaviour – that means you don’t accept it. There are red flags which have been discussed many times and these are complete no no’s and then there is other inappropriate behaviour that flags up that there is a problem, a disrespect issue. Some people work on a 3 strikes of the latter and opt out. You decide how many chances you give – the point is that when all you’re giving is chances, someone is effed up. And no it’s not ‘one mistake’ – it depends on what the mistake is. Not turning up at all for instance is a serious no and would cause me to end it with a guy. Him being late occasionally would not, especially if he overall had strength of character and both of his feet in the relationship. The thing with you is that you actually want to create excuses.
We all make excuse for people, we call it the benefit of the doubt, ok, if happens again. errr no. But we have to draw al ine were the benefit surley has to run out. Girls its so empowering to say NO, to men who cant get a frickin grip. So what if they go out the next night and get laid, you said no. If he doesnt contact you, after finishing with you, he problay wont cos your always the one does the contact, Turn off your phone, change your number, you wont know if he’s tried to contact you,and it wont hurt.
ARules, that is true what you said: ” If he doesnt contact you, after finishing with you, he problay wont cos your always the one does the contact.” They just wait for you to make the contact and if this doesn’t happen, they may if they NEED something from you, correct?
Very nice! It’s always a treat to get new posts from you NML. And I’m particularly grateful to the ladies that have the bulk of this (a**clown behavior) behind them. I consider myself to be a smart woman but I have a difficult time determining when to walk away….What I’m learning however is that only I can answer that. It’s refreshing to hear the logical (and quite reasonable) responses from those that have been there, done that =) Thanks ladies
DazedandConfused,
I have a question, if others in your life think that your reactions to things are overblown and you were always yelling at your EUM, what is it that is really making you so angry?
DazedandConfused,
Follow up ?, are you angry because people are walking all over you or is it something deeper than that? Just some thoughts since I have been posed this question myself and found that I was lashing out not because of the surface reasons but something much deeper…Gail
Speaking of boundaries…I wonder how many women on here actually suffered from sexual abuse as a child. I think one area I’m weak in is trusting my instincts and second-guessing myself. That stems (in particular for me) from having boundaries violated and being powerless to enforce those boundaries at a young age.
I think we all have to admit here and now that finding an excellent man is not easy. It just isn’t. That’s why some women stay in bad realtionships because they’re afraid of going back out there and trying again.
People are busy, have busy lives and don’t have a lot of time for socializing. It’s a full time job just to make a living and keep a roof over one’s head. If you’re single it’s even harder.
It’s more difficult to meet people if you don’t do the online dating route. I don’t know about anyone else on this site but there are not that many social events that I go to where I would meet single men. I did join a gym and an interest group but that is not a lock that I’ll meet anyone eligible there.
Online dating is a pain in the butt. I guess if you keep at it, dating locally, you might get lucky but my experience has been less then successful. I’m pretty turned off to it.
So it begs the question, where do you meet single men without having to hang out in bars looking like a booty call? That’s the dilema for many women. I think that’s why so many of us are hooking up with EUM”s, because we’re meeting them online. Sure with online dating you get lots of emails and chats but what really comes out of it?
Just finding an interesting, eligible man offline is hard, in my experience, let alone whether he’s decent or EUM.
That’s why I’m concentrating on myself right now. I’m exhausted from my xEUM relationship, online dating and just the whole dating scene in general. I know I’m not alone.
Metsgurl= If he contacts you 4-5 weeks later, its usually cos he’s run out of options, and he’s got a problem or wants the other! Men who truly love you, stick around thro the thick n thin. They get that life aint always the rush of the first date and understand and accept that at some point the the rush dies, but are happy with it and importantly happy just to be with you. If he’s finished with you, he dont want to be with you, end of. Dont flog a dead horse, its humiliating, and proves to him you have no self worth.
What’s the point in having boundaries if you don’t enforce them or bend them to suit his needs? That was my mistake with Twatman.
I thought that I was being too harsh when he clearly had “so much going on his life.” Silly, I know.
Anyway, I’ve set my boundaries and set Twatman free as well. I will never chase a man who won’t chase me. I will never beg a man for his love, affection or time. I am not sharing my man. And he will have to prove himself worthy of me.
I erred in this relationship, but believe me, it won’t happen again!
Cynnie- you go girl.xx
Errrr why is my husband blogging on this site!!! Honey I know you love all this, but please take your name off!
Cynnie, I want to be like YOU!
I have been coming to this website for a month now, because I nearly lost my mind trying to rationalise and think and dissect conversations. Every article here tells me exactly what I’ve been avoiding hearing. This post especially reduced me to tears. I’ve been dating a guy for almost a year now – except of course, he doesn’t call it dating. he calls it “Casual.”
The same conversations, the same hysterical break ups, the same blame game, the same feelings of guilt, the same self-doubt… all of it. I’ve done everything. I’ve settled for so much less than I deserve, not just generally, but from him in particular.
Every time I have a conversation with him, he gets angry, then vague and then tries to be all lovey-dovey and innocent as if to make me feel better. We haven’t had a conversation to date where he has been direct.
I feel unwanted, unappreciated and as if I’m the one working at this.He is 24, I’m 22 and this is technically the first time I’ve been in something that’s not a fling or a juvenile relationship. I have also never been wrapped up in someone so much. I’ve neglected my friends, my writing, my own time just to be around him.
I had a conversation with him today, where I told him, in clear terms, that I wanted to be a priority in his life. I asked him if he could do that. A plain question. He first tried to change the topic, then when I told him to just answer me, he said these conversations worried him and that it all seemed too “relationshippy.” He said he didn’t want to be in a relationship and didn’t want to make a girl, any girl, his priority. And then when he realised what he had said, and realised that those statements left me with no choice but to end things, he turned around and said, “you know you’re a priority, why do i need to say it?”
It’s just stuff like this, ALL the time. We have our fun, our good times, but every time I want to talk about something that may have been bothering me, he flares up or becomes flakey – almost as if it is my fault for expecting ANYthing at all out of someone who’s “been” with me for a year.
I’m at my wit’s end. I don’t even know why I’m thinking so much – the answer is simple, I need to walk away. But I don’t have that faith in me anymore – I don’t believe that I can walk away and mean it and not come back at the first sign of weakness,.. I really don’t know what to do.
Zooey, you have come to the right place. Read the articles, read the posts. I’m much older than you, but the EUM you just described may as well be my ex-EUM. Said the same stuff, acted the same way – check out some of my posts. Dont be like me, who hung on for over 2 years on someone who didnt want a “relationship”. It beats you up inside. My ex did the same thing (get angry make jokes or twist things) whenever I brought up something he was uncomfortable with. He is not there for you, Zooey. He is only there for himself. Time to get strong … I am right there with ya! ((hugs))
Zooey= we all are, read what Cynnie says about 6 posts up. If he dont want you you dont go back. Apply the no contact rule, see other bloggs and make a start today. A YOU start! one for yourself honey, cos he sure as wont do anything for you. Men are twats at times. We are loving you though ok.
Thanks NML – got it and understand better now 🙂
Well it all go in our house! My hubby blogged on this site earlier, KatyB who is my heartbroken friend went off and did her thing, reduced him to a blubbering mess!!! WOW!!! at last!!! Ive plyed her with wine most of the day Ive got her tucked up in bed reading!!! Hooray! Im giving her dinner in bed and will have a girlie nite with her. xxx That tosser betta do one or jesus He’ll get it!!! Oh the power of a womans tongue. KatyB we love you xxx
Thanx girls and NML its been a horrid 2 years for her, Im glad I went searching for a101 reasons to dump your man and came up with this. Its given her strength. xx
Zooey,
You stated you “don’t believe that I can walk away.” Ask yourself what exactly your getting from this ‘relationship?’ I know that when I ended it with EUM it was very difficult but with time things became much, much easier. I think the most liberating thing was getting my self-respect back-happened the day I left him- self-love is far more important than any man. I’m sure your life was normal and happy before you met this ass, don’t you want someone who loves and appreciates you. He’s not going to change!
You must put yourself first!
This is so right on!! I find that my lack of boundaries are in most of not all of my relationships. I seemed to attract men and women who need me to do all the work, or couldn’t find their way outta of their ass. This happened in personal relationships, work relationships, love relationships, I was the worker bee and they knew that I would be the glue that held everything together, count on ole Isabella! But what happened was I the one that they abused both emotionally and verbally when I couldn’t keep up the pace and grew tired or just damn pissed off. An old hag boss that I had me do some lazy co-worker’s job because she knew that I could be counted on and got it done. This lazy co-worker was not given any type of warning when she just didn’t do her work instead the hag boss begin verbally abusing me. I realize that I was raising adults. No wonder I was feeling like crap most of the time.
Good post. It would also be good to hear what some people’s boundries should be. When I ended things for the 20th time two weeks ago with a MM, he said to me “I’m not worried, you always come back at some point.” Im so glad he said that because the was IN MY FACE. I have had such little boundries about what crumbs I settle for, he doesn’t even care. When I told him I was seeing someone, He said “I don’t care” because I know how you really feel and we’ll be together again someday. I wanted to throw up in my mouth. Turned out the guy I was seeing (beside MM) just wanted something casual, even though we met online and he new what I was looking for. When he went through the 2nd time of no calling me for 4 days, I ended it. Today I cellabrate 1 week NC with the MM and I’m having a Mex dinner with 3 good friends. Thanks for writing Natalie
It finally clicked for me when he said “the decision is up to me.” Then I realized what an idiot I was and that I had allowed this creep to be in complete control. I can’t believe that the ‘relationship’ had come to this point. Thank God I’m out!!!!!!!!!
Rules,
What did she say?
I asked a question of your hubby in response to his post re. signs. Please let him know I am interested in a response.
Thanks
I think for a lot of people including myself turning into a yes person happens insidiously over time. When I was in my twenties, one of my paramours actually nicknamed me Miss No. Then as time went on and the choices in men gradually waned and years went by without a boyfriend; my clearly defined boundaries lines began to blur. The more lonesome for decent male company I became, more the lines blurred, until they finally disappeared. Time and life just wears it down and then along comes the ass clown. After tussling with a few of those I realized I had lost those boundaries I had. Accepted the fact that I may end up alone and made peace with that. Now my boundaries are back and here to stay
Ya know sometimes I get so lonely. After my divorce, I decided to stay in Georgia rather than move back home. I wanted to be able to support myself. But being alone now for over 5 years and without a relationship or partner has begun to wear on me along with other things, hence the ass clown that was in my life. I look drawn and seemingly I am usually worried about something. At least with the ass clown, I had some laughs. Sometimes, I feel like a failure or something or not worthy, attractive to warrant a good man who really wants to be with me. I know a lady who after her divorce, met a man who with all the attributes that she envisioned, why not me? I did the list of likes and dislikes until I am tried of typing or writing. No voila. I am like a roller coaster, up and down. I look at my former marriage and that failed and now the recent assclown relationship. Oh my, I wonder what has become of me.
To top that off, boundaries……. well no boundaries. I feel that I have worked on myself with therapy and reading books and yet, I fell for an assclown that took me mentally for a spin. I had boundaries, I thought and I called him on the carpet a few times when I felt that he crossed them, but slowly that left when I had to shift gears and deal with my dysfunctional family who ran all over my boundaries, rather I didn’t have any with them.
Loving Annie
Maybe you could draw a map. Not a street map, but a map of where you met unsuitable guys. One bubble might be “Club A”, the next “Friend 2”, the next “grocery line”, the next “sold me a red 1950 Edsel, used, piece of junk”. That way you could identify areas where toads hang out. Usually toad entertainment offends good guys.
And probably the good guys, past about mid 20’s, aren’t hanging out anywhere. You have to catch them at work, or through contacts in their community or church. Instead of wandering the woods looking for “likely” looking toads, find the smiling princesses, and hang out where they found their prince-in-disguise!
And don’t kiss toads. Make friends. Make lots of casual acquaintances. You want to know lots of people living with good boundaries, that you can ask or infer about whether a particular individual is generally respected or treated with caution. Chat with people when standing in line, or arrive early for church activities and other events. And maybe wait until you think you have a live one.
Joy!
Dazed,
“I actually fly off the handle”. This is two problems, as I see it. First, when you have a predictable response to misdeeds, that is “nagging”. Unattractive, and quite faulty for accomplishing anything. Nagging lacks respect, and because it keeps repeating without anything changing – shows a feeling of powerlessness.
The other problem I see is what gail mentioned – a problem with anger issues. Anger is very damaging even to a good relationship, and may take outside counseling to help you resolve it.
As for his plan for 15 minutes, and showing up an hour late, that is lame. First, abusing your patience is rude. Impolite. An act of disrespect. He might be morbidly bad at planning, but he isn’t taking responsibility for himself. He is irresponsible. Heaven forbid he should teach disrespect and irresponsible behavior to your children, if there should be any. His lame excuse is rude and disrespectful. Allowing his “lapses” to become a pattern is a gross act of disrespect for you, and may be an indication of other problems on his part.
An honest and respectful mate should be concerned about any unhappiness they inadvertently cause. No, I don’t buy the flowers or candy as an apology – not when this is a pattern. If he works late, calls to let you know about the delay, makes his updated expected time of arrival – that isn’t anywhere near what this is. And depending on what plans were interrupted, perhaps a peace offering would be appropriate.
Stuff happens. But when someone turns circumstance into an expression of disrespect and deceit – that cannot be a healthy relationship. The issue with his lateness is not being 45 minutes late – it is the disrespect of making it a habit, and the irresponsible behavior of repeating acts of disrespect. And there is an implied lie, too, in letting you believe the wait is 15 minutes, instead of the hour it turns out to be.
Disrespect has to be confronted, or it gets worse until someone gets hurt. You aren’t his boss, or his mommy, so you have no standing to discipline him (yelling, threatening, etc.) He isn’t going to change. This isn’t something you can put up with – being late could be tolerated, sometimes, but the deceit and rudeness and disrespect are deal killers for me.
If you aren’t ready to walk away from a bad relationship, are you really ready to be in one? Which I guess is another way of saying you gotta have boundaries. Enforcing a boundary is what makes it a boundary, otherwise it is just another silly rule everyone ignores. Who was it that said, “it is the dates a girl walks home from, that proves her character”?
Blessed be.
Gaynor= dont worry he’ll reply. He’s more into this than we are!!! lol. You see an emotionally available man!! He gets it, but it came at a huge cost, the woman in question tore him from arse to ear hole by all accounts, left him in a mess. Good on her I say. He lost his job, etc. On his arse, then he got the help he neede. IE identifying issues from the past then letting them go. KatyB is OK Im glad she’s here I can look after her!!!! OH NO!!! Yes Im a carer a fixer at heart. But luckily she takes care of me to when I need it. I’ll get her online at some point. To be honest she likes reading all this stuff, but I think she feels a bit fragile and ashmed to talk to anyone else about what has happened. Its really been awful for her and the worst of it as she knows from me and this site is that she let it happen. Thats a bitter pill to swallow cos its so easy to blame others. But I explained to hermaybe its ok to blame others whilst youre getting over it, when the heartache has died, then she can deal with herself, because if you dont your holding the issue, ir staying attatched, then you release with love taking your part in it to. Then she can move on an become healthy again. At times I thank my experience with an addict, it was the most godawful 3 years of my life, but through my obssesion of helping him I learnt about the 12 steps and this then gave me insight into my own behaviour, the 12 steps can be applied to evry area of life and it helped me a great deal. I got myself an N?A work book from Families Anon and began to work on myself as addicts do in re-hab and recovery. It gave muge amounts of personal insight about my past and my issues, and taught me how to let go. I leave in peace now, and Im glad, because when my addict knocked on my door to make his amendmendt, I knew he had worked on himself and was serious about changing his life, and I was able to accept his amendment without question or mistrust, I had moved on.
Also, this work and by going to N/A meetings gave a huge insight to others behaviour, I can easily watch someone and pick up on their issues quickly, ie watch what they are doing, drinking, angry, lots of things. I call such behaviour Addict Mentality, although in theory they may not be addicts in the terms that we understand. Its the mentality that you have to look out fore, denial, selfishness, some people are in a real mess, IE walking contradictions. they say one thing and do another, they belive what their saying, but I can now look to the heart of it and see the real issue, its not their fault, their underdeveloped mentality, not grown, its has to do with social structures, upbringing things that happen in child etc, but I came to learn that even though you know this and you want to help, most people dont want to be helped, they see it as your controlling them, thats why its best to move on, yes it does leave you with the label of being hard arsed and uncaring, but better that than 3 years down the road your here on this website looking for answers, with a wasted broken heart and not knowing if your coming or going, some people on this site have suggested that Im unthinking, wrong!! Im not I care, I have huge amounts of personal insight, but I have to look after me. First.
Gaynor-JohnT posted on this sight didnt he, I was here when he did it. I went and did the same, because I needed him to know about my pain, the pain Ive deyed for 2years because Ive always put him first. I didnt beg him I told I didnt want him and I was never going back. Im not He wont do the same a JT because he aint that nice. It really waas about my lil girl, its her 7th b’day today! and on Wed she asked me if he would come and see her, that made my blood boil because I knew he wouldnt even be thinking of her, which is a contradiction really because he stayed with s over xmas, in fact he was more excited about it than I was, because in my heart I knew when the pressies and food was done and we were jst together as couples do, he would freak just like he did last year, This is exactly how he acted after last xmas, didnt love me really, blah blah blah. But what hurt was he was also saying that about my lil girl, and that was to much to bear. He told me yesterday and I quote ‘…I dont know what love is, hell I dnt know what feelings are, I cant cope… I lust after you I know…but love…” Stop right there buster!!!!! How the fuck dare he say that after 2years. I let him have it, made him cry. Still didnt get a card for my lil girl, even after his tears and sorries. Awful Awful.
Hi everyone!
I need serious advice and help as to how to get out of my deep deep hole I have created.
I need to build a boundary – a boundary that completely prevents my EUM from pushing himself time and time again to the forefront of my life.
For 6 long years I have battled with a torrent of feelings, highs,love, laughter, lust..the the lows, low self esteem, battered and bruised soul. My EUM is in a relationship with another woman. In the beginning he was absolutely committed to leaving (I believed his lies and deceit) but it never came, and time passed, I moved on to someone else for 12 mths, then when my life is empty (or so i think) I let him back in.
I cannot cut ties from this EUM. For the last 12 mths he has drifted in and out of my life. I beat myself up because I dont want to be in this situation anymore. I ask myself if I am still here because of the sex,but i am not. I am too weak. I feel unfulfilled without him in my life. I know that i something I am lacking inside me, AND i need to find that.
He doesnt improve my life. The situation does not make me happy. I enjoy his company, but not the bullshit/lies.
Ultimately, I do not know the person I have continued to let into my life for the last 7 years.. his other life is everything he needs, with me on the sidelines to bolster up a possibly stagnent relationship.
I want to know how to break the cycle. I want to know how to get happy, to get strong and to tell this man “I do not need you”.
I know it is as simple as going cold turkey. But I have failed miserably at no contact about 8 times. Maybe I need to leave the country!
We work a few mins away from each other (different buildings) and he lives in the same village although I have never seen him.
The thought of him continuing to have sex with his real relationship is literally destroying me, even though I know the situation I am in.
I need to get a life.
Please advise!!
L&F xx
Gail and Brad K, thank you for the input. Perhaps “fly off the handle” is an overstatement. Anger issues… something I have asked myself. I dated an abusive person a few years ago and watched myself deteriorate while with them. Basically, in a relationship you can be a good communicator but your skills are lowered to those which you are dealing with. If someone is yelling at you and refuses to listen I find you drop to their level. It’s like unintelligent animals having a fight (I’m rubber and you’re glue). The only way to communicate with these people, is to walk away.
Gail– you hit the nail on the head for me I think, which is that my reactions are due to years of built up anger towards getting walked over. When I met my EUM I had been single for 7 months trying to deal with the last guy. I thought I was better and going to never let things happen to me that had before. But, this meant going to the other end of the spectrum. So when “small” things would happen, I would be really upset and put my foot down. I did not “fly off the handle” but my reaction was one of being firm and saying I will not tolerate such behaviour. It seemed extreme to the other person, but I just felt sick of not standing up for myself. So it’s a process of healing. I might not have got it right the first time but it’s a learning process right? Just as someone said in an earlier post about learning ot say no, it was uncomfortable at first.
But I do not think I have general anger problems. When I am dealing with respectful good people I do not feel incapable of expressing myself, because they communicate calmly and with words as well. I watched myself get angrier as I got impatient with my inability to convey messages or be heard with my EUM. So it’s not necessarily that I have issues, but that this was a toxic relationship that did not bring out the best in me. I appreciate your questions though as they cause me to keep digging deeper.
Rules,
I’m happy to hear that John is into the site, I wish that there were more men that were as receptive.
I have enjoyed all of your posts, you’re a straight shooter as am I. I’m sorry you have received negativity from other posters-so have I-but I think others are at different places in their healing and how they accept information.
I have to say you’re a loving and compassionate friend and I’m glad Katy has someone as you to turn to.
The info on the 12 step program is a valuable one. How long were you in the program? How did it help you establish the necessary boundaries? The one point I didn’t understand was about how it wasn’t their fault if they knew they were inflicting pain? If I know I am hurting others-over and over-I would choose to make changes, these people don’t seem to care and choose not to make changes. To me it all seems very sadistic.
Katy,
I’m sorry for your pain. None of it makes sense.
I don’t understand how someone can be in lust for two-years, that doesn’t make sense??? It sounds like the guys is so confused and screwed up. Did he have any understanding of your feeling- as John did- or were the tears only for him????
Gaynor, I’m doing CODA, which is Codependents Anyomous and they also do the twelve steps. It’s like NA, or AA for those that are basically addicted to people and bad situations. It’s been helping me a lot. I call it Fallback girl/EUM Anyomous, because everyone in CODA is basically a fallback girl or an EUM seeking recovery. They take you through the same 12 steps as NA or AA. Check online, because they should have local meetings in your area.
I call it addict Mentality, its about total lack of personal insight, and its complex, People have issues that they are unaware of, learned behaviour and other shit. They go through life blaming everyone else anything else, ie, men say their not in love, blaming something else, not looking at what the real issue is THEY cant commit, and understanding why, come out with crap YOUR TO NEEDY blaming someone else its a complex subject, I call typical men behavior Addict Mentality in a very diluted form, it mirrors an addicts selfish blinkered out look, looking for someone else to sort it out. Going from women to women, filling voids, its never enough etc People dont know how they behave ie you women on this site its, ADDICT MENTALITY love gone wrong CO_DEPENDANCY, its not love its about your issues, People saying they scream and rant because of the way people behave, blaming others. This is another form of denial. Living in denial about anything will cause your demise in the end. I worked the programme with my ex, then began to realise I to had a problem started doing it on my own, not that Im saying being in love is a problem it is when your in position to have to use this site. Its principles have just become a part of me, thats how much an effect it had on me, its truly amazing, and for the critics it has NOTHING TO DO WITH RELIGON, you think that and you aint getting it, It helped me set boundaries in that its has to be ZERO TOLERANCE, because if its not your enabling the addict to continue to fuck up your life, lie, cheat steal, no not feel sorry for them, actually loving them as we classify love can make them worse, to love someone truly is to set them free. They have to find their own way home, some get it, most dont. But its the best way. When dealing with an addict you support positive steps but do not tolerate their MENTALITY, you dont nag critise, you shut the door, Ive applied a diluted version to men. its simple really. Its nothing different to what NML is saying, she gets it, so do I. and thankfully most on this site begin to get it after time by learning of each other. Jt said he’ll answer over the weekend, KatyB is fine xxx raw but fine.
But I’d like to say some men may not be in love, ie they’ve looked at you and thought NO, thats a tricky area, NML explains it on another post. Life is shit but wen I see problems such as drinking, chatting up other women, lack of basic respect, anyform of drug taking, including pot etc, its a red flag serious enough to get me out. Because sex, drugs, alcohol misuse spell trouble. FULL STOP, even if they say they dont have a problem, they have, using negative things to make them feel better. If your bouncing from one guy to another you have a problem, your looking for summit to fill a void, addict behaviour.
Rules,
The info is very interesting.
I am so beyond the Ex-Assclown, I would never allow him in my life in any capacity. Toxic!!!!
I got out of the relationship (the bad period) after three- months. I have never tolerated such behavior from any man and never will again. The one benefit from this ridiculous situation is that I’m finally ready to commit to some completely.
I am now a reformed commitment-phobe 🙂
Nikki,
All the best with the program.
Gaynor- I just dont know. My head is in a spin. Trouble he to is a an addict, but not using just not gonna give his job up to do re-hab. Therefore ignoring the issues he knows he has. The thing that hurt is that someone can say they are in lust with you, they dont know what love is. To be honest in my heart I know that he doesnt love me, Ive got to go then. He said I deserve better.
Rulesgirl,
I always heard that if an addict stops a behavior for someone, they blame that same person when they start the drug, drink …. of their addiction. The ex-EUM was an addict but in denial and he stopped but when he went back, it was because I made him mad….. So they have to stop because they really want to and not for someone else. Good lesson I learned.
My heart is broken.
Katy,
The important thing is is that you’re out! You deserve so much better!! Your girlfriend sounds like an excellent source of info on the topic, have you considered NA for yourself?
KatyB …I’m sorry. I’m right there with you – my heart is broken too. My now-ex loved to tell me that I deserved better … to me that is a self-serving statement. They are trying to make themselves feel good by saying that. If they know that is true, why do they hang around? Get this, my ex even said he was letting me go because he wanted to “be a hero”. What an ass!
Annied,
That is an ass!
Annied,
My EUM use to tell me the same thing that I deserved better. One of the times I broke up with him I told him what he said that I deserved better. Then he changed his mind and said that I deserved what I got. He never really meant it. He just wanted to feel better about himself.
Who is going to reply to lost&found?
Not me, because I’m not wise enough….
She sounds in lots of pain and is where lots of us have been…
Lost,
I’m not wise enough either but I thought that Rules and Nikki gave some excellent advice regarding options (NA and CODA) to move on from this situation.
“….They have no problem getting medieval on people like their female friends but clamp up around men.”
“….you shouldn’t be prepared to accept more shit in your life because it has a penis and testicles hanging off the end of it…”
Truer words have not been said.
My partner and I have bumped heads quite a few times because of boundary testing. He’s used to doing whatever he wants with women and he’s met his match with me. But guess what? He’s learned and still learning.
Women, we HAVE to have boundaries, especially with men. As I mentioned in “Challenging the misconceptions about yourself, love, & relationships”, it really pisses me off that women allow men to do whatever but treat each other like absolute shit. It really needs to stop.
Dazedandconfused,
A teaching book I read, “Tools for Teaching”, made a side-comment that really struck a chord with me. The author points out that when you have a three-year old throwing a tantrum in a grocery store, you don’t yell – you talk quietly. If you yell, you set a new, louder goal for the screaming, you add to the energy level. If you talk quieter, the kid has to get quiet to hear what your reaction is. In various novels, the most authoritative figures often use a lower tone, and quieter voice, to express the deepest anger or outrage. It is powerfully effective.
It also helps at the time, to recognize that the yelling you are hearing is an act of weakness and disrespect, about 2 year old level. Quite immature. And the display may include words, but this is *not* an act of communication. So there is no answer, there is no exchange of information. You don’t have to yell to defend yourself, or you appear to agree that yelling is an acceptable “play” rule. You yell when safety is an issue – your dog has strayed, or your kid is near something unsafe. Save the “big guns” for dire need.
lostandfound,
you ask about how to set boundaries, then describe the whole fallback girl situation. I think the first step is safety and healing – and it sounds like you need the whole No Contact rule. Block his messages, block his calls or get a new phone number, the whole works. Permanently.
NML has a book, and many posts, on doing No Contact. This is a period for grieving for the loss of someone that has been important in your life, as well as a time to deal with anger over his disrespect, and also to heal your wounds to self esteem, wounds to dreams of love and family, and wounds to your friendships. No Contact.
What is so important about No Contact? You need to be out of any kind of tie or bond to him, now. Right now. Because every word you hear from him rekindles your defenses, rekindles your hopes, rekindles your anger over disrespect and broken promises and broken dreams. You literally have to protect yourself from sight and sound of this guy. Consider him something you are allergic to – something that stops your breathing, that drains your love of yourself. He is someone that harms you if you see him, let alone let him speak to you.
What has to happen is, through connecting with friends, especially women friends, through counseling if you can – pastor, counselor, etc. – and through discovery, you have to find yourself. You are a wonderful person, but you have let someone else use your fears against you, so all you see are the flaws his disrespect could use against you. Self esteem, self acceptance, self love – different aspects of finding out who you are today.
Once you have a good grasp on yourself as a person you know, trust, and admire – the boundaries get easy. Through experience and healing you learn the things that damage you, that weaken your faith and trust in yourself, or damage your love for yourself and others. Defending and protecting yourself from those actions and words and perceptions that damage who you are, in your own eyes, that is what a boundary is.
Your first boundary will likely sound something like, “I am mad as hell, and I am not going to take it any more.”
For me, much of the way we empower ourselves and others begins with respect. Honor, integrity, responsibility, trust, these are healthy character traits. Compassion, emotional bonding, knowing joy in your life and wishing to share joy (not humor) with others, these bring love.
A boundary is something that blocks that unwanted influence. A boundary is a rule, one you check often, one you enforce every time. Fail to enforce a boundary, and it becomes a denial, a deception to yourself and others.
You asked how to set a boundary. How to stop hurting. How to make him keep his promise to leave her to be with you and be the wonderful man you want.
That last part? The part about him keeping his word, about changing? He is injured. He doesn’t have a choice. He cannot change. He could decide to leave her tonight – and that wouldn’t be a change. He would have to become respectful, and honest – and he cannot. He doesn’t know how, and won’t hear guidance. An EUM doesn’t change. He will never be a good partner for you. Think, the Dixie Chicks song, “Goodbye Earl” he won’t change.
Which means that you have a dangling relationship – there is no one (worthwhile) at the other end. Accept that he won’t change, and protect and heal yourself. Grieve, recover, heal. Focus on learning yourself again, face your fears, examine what you think are flaws or defects, and get help where you need it.
As you can read many times on this site, until you heal your fears and love yourself, you are likely to pick another guy that is relationship-retarded, too. Just like the last one. You need to heal the part of you that seeks out and wants to associate with dysfunctional guys in dysfunctional relationships.
You can find a way to go on, that after healing won’t hurt like this. But you don’t need to think of a relationship until after the healing and joy return to your life.
Luck!
lostandfound January 16th, 2009, 12:18 pm:
You have GOT to find the strength to cut him off completely. If possible, I’d suggest moving out of the same village and avoid all contact with him near your job.
How come you can’t cut him off? This seems to be tearing you apart. And he probably could care less.
Wishing you the best.
Brad K, good reply and post. Things that I have to actually remind myself of when I feel myself start my pity party for one….UGH.. I am setting boundaries with everyone in my life right now, cuz I have not had any boundaries, some of it feels pretty darn good and some a bit scary. I was friends with a guy who has been divorcing his wife now for about 2 years or so now…. right….I met him at the gym and we were just friends, but he talked about his spouse really badly and what she didn’t do. I think he was trying to bait me. After my situation with the ex-EUM and coming to this site, I realized that I was engaged in another dysfunctional relationship with this guy, so I ended the friendship. I had to step back and think about the way the I was benefitting from remaining friends with him. In fact I was more like his unpaid therapist and 4 years from now more than likely he would still be trying to divorce her, whatever!!!
Peace
KatyB has gone home, aww. What a turmoil!! and it didt stop over the weekend. She got a bit obsessive and went and watched him on sat night, hmmm, dint like what she saw, sneaky crap behaviour on his part, didnt love her? no I think that was the age old excuse of actually I wanna fuck someone els more like. Good grief. So she is beating herself up about just being a crap, person, and no wonder he left. I tell you ladies, its time to knuckle down, and get those boundaries up, dont bother explaning when you’ve had enough just walk. And if some tosser comes out with a hare brained story about ‘ooo…Im justa bit confused, ooo I dont know if I love you…blah blah blah…’ dont stay around to argue, ask him to expalin, scream or rant, the very fact that a person can actually say those words should be enough. ‘you dont know if you love me?… well suck on this!!!’ Turn your back on him and skip your merry arses outta the door. Dont look back, and turn that phone off!!! Get some choccy and a bottle of wine and bawl your eyes out at home, not in front of him.
Rules,
What do you mean she “went and watched him?” Is she realizing she needs to move on now, and the guy is a worthless creep?
Hey, when’s is husband going to respond? Several of us are interested in his thoughts and motivations when he was an EUM. I was also interested if he was telling these women that he loved them or that there was a future? Did he realize he was hurting them?
Thanks a bunch!
Isabella January 18th, 2009, 4:29 pm:
I was in the same situation a few years ago except the guy is actually my ex. He’s been with this woman for probably 6 years now and lives in HER house (SHE bought it); he and I were together in university for a few months and I called it quits. After the break-up we still remained friends and are still friends/acquaintances to this day.
Anyway, a few years back after he moved with his girlfriend into her house he gave me sob stories for a year and I fell for them like an ass. I fooled around with him a couple times (NO SEX though) and would give him the “Awww, she’s so mean! Why don’t you leave?” And it was excuse after excuse after excuse. Now granted, I know how he is and didn’t want to be back in a relationship with him, but I had such shitty self-esteem that I thought that I was only worth being “the other woman”.
My best friend happened to point out something to me – he’s done the same thing with his children….. make excuses for why he can’t get custody of them, blame things on the children’s mother, blame blame blame……
I woke up. It disgusted me that he did the same thing with his children; that disgusted me even more than the fact that I fell for his bullshit stories about his girlfriend. I called him and immediately told him that there would be no more messing around with him. He was pissed but I didn’t care.
Like I said, we’re still cool and we speak every few months. But every time he tries to rekindle something, I shut him down quick fast and in a hurry. I KNOW now that I’m worth more than being the other woman and oddly enough, he knows that he’s not good for me (or any other woman for that matter). And I’m happy that I’m with someone who feels the same way about me that I feel about myself.
P.S. Please wish KatyB the best for me. Hopefully over time she’ll see the assclown/asshole for who he really is.
Hi Everyone…I’ve been too embarassed to post because I fell off the wagon with my ex-EUM when he contacted me…saw him once…didn’t shag him…but continued contact for a few weeks…I was so miserable with inner turmoil, and felt like I was obsessed, going crazy, in a prison of my own. Instead of just cutting him off without telling him, I was nice enough to tell him not to contact me anymore and nicely explained that I can’t do it…still have feeling and can’t keep in touch…so he tells me he was just trying to be friends with me although he flirted and gave inuendos of more…I am so disgusted…he is so good at twisting things…he’s twisted…but I finally know I’ll never ever ever ever let him in again. I’ve blocked him from email and if he ever tries to call or contact me…I will not participate…I’ve come to the end of the line. I guess I should look at the positive…I got out alive!!! His twisted world “all about him” and I was listening to his crap. And I thought he cared and he missed me…Somehow my brain turned to mush…I’m on my way back to reality and normal land…no more drama…I’m going to look at boundaries and make sure they are in place.
Finally, dont be so hard on yourself. I’m only on day 6 of NC myself. I’ve fallen off the wagon so much it’s crazy! When you are ready to let him go completely, you’ll know it – you’ll feel that something about “this” time feels permanent (for yourself, not him). My ex pulled the same friend-card thing with me every time he broke up with me. It is too early now yet, but he’ll come back with it and twist it to make me sound like I’m the bad guy for not “caring enough” to be his friend since I had “claimed” to love him. Every other time, I got into a conversation with him about this. This time, I’m not going to respond. Like this article says, we have got to have some boundaries or we’ll be doing this dance forever. Personally, I think it has actually aged me … I really dont like that! LOL
Annied, thank you for your kind words, it’s good to know that there are other good women who go through the same thing. I felt so weak, like a failure because I after 3 months of NC I allowed him to get to me again. I think you are right, I think now, I am ready to let go completely…I think I fooled myself into thinking “he really cared about me, but just had commitment issues.” I now think he is a predator, a manipulator and knows exactly what he is doing. I think they are a bit like vampires, living off of the goodness and trueness of our feelings for them…using it to stroke their egos and satisfy them. I think these guys can’t accept rejection… he couldn’t give me the committed relationship I wanted, so I broke up with him (at least 5 times)…I think he wants to know that I am there, just like NML says…the fallback girl…just in case his life gets boring, or he needs to distance himself from a current fling (should I call her a victim!)…I should have protected myself by blocking the email and not been weak..but I have to forgive myself and start over. Today I told him …so tomorrow will be Day 1 of NC. I’m going to be positive and know that he will never get the best of me again…I’ve spent too many days and nights crying, obsessing and hurt over a man, not worthy of me…or any woman…I have been going to therapy, reading and working on me…Thanks for your words of wisdom…I
Annied:
Your ex-EUM sounds exactly like mine!!! I think part of the reason they twist things is because half of the time they are so connected with their feelings. We can stay strong together.
finallyseenthelight-
How did he keep coming back into your life? Did he just email or call you? I don’t believe a word of what he says- he was just trying to be friends. yeah right.
Ive got a question to anyone on thise especially NML, have you heard of Christian Carter, if anyone has, I’d like your views, especially those of NML.
Gaynor he will reply, been v busy. see you all soon.
KatyB been to see me, err it gets worse, update you later.
Will the desire of wanting an ex EUM to chase me go away? I ended it and perhaps he is respecting my space but I can’t help but to feel I would still want him to chase me or come looking for me. Does this have to do with Ego?
Karen,
I think it has with not letting go of the relationship.
In time, you will not want him to try to contact you in any form as you will know how destructive the relationship was.
Karen, I am right there with you. I ended it with my ex mm almost a month ago and I feel the same way you do. This was the third time. I don’t think mine will be back but I like you want him too- I think a large part of it is ego and to know that there is an ounce of care there. Ughh. I am totally feel what you are going through. I am totally obsessing.
Leeanne,
I’m sorry but the guy was never there for you as he is married! Why would you chose to want a relationship where someone is clearly unavailable??? Don’t you want better for yourself??? I don’t get the married man thing??
I know there is a lot of love and care there…. I chose to end it because well.. he lives with the mother of his kids and his two kids. As dysfunctional as that may sound— I have no doubt that we care about eachother— just not a good situation for me to be involved in– which I realized and so I ended it. That doesn’t mean the feelings end nor the wishes or desire of wanting to be together. I can’t help but to want things to be different… to wish that the circumstances could change. I chose to leave because if and when he does decide for things to change– that should be on him…and me waiting around is not healthy for me. Once again– I can’t say im not sad, I can’t say I dont miss him, I can’t say that I dont love him anymore and wouldn’t want him to still contact me. Yes I know I deserve better! Yes I know that breaking up with him was the best thing to do– doesn’t mean its easy to get past these feelings that still linger. Moving on because you HAVE to hurts because there is no other reason to do it for other than because you know its not good for you and I know I have to love myself enough to let it go. That took strength and courage– and for that Im grateful. I dont want to hate him… I dont wish him bad…. I just want to get to that point where I don’t long for him anymore or think of him or that place where either way it no longer matters– that place when you know you are completely over someone. Sometimes it feels like getting to that place will be impossible.
Gaynor it is a long and complicated story but I fell in love with the wrong person. Sometimes emotions exceed rational. That is what happened in my situation. I guess it is the same as to why both Karen, I and so many other women on this site want our xs to come back although they are clearly not good for us.
That is true– like Leanne said… we know these men are not good for us. Some of us women have been strong enough to leave, others are still in the process of getting there…nonetheless the pain and the loss is real. In some instances perhaps these men have been TRUE A**clowns in others, perhaps there were real moments of love and caring albeit the dysfunctional and complicated circumstances. It is the circumstances that we leave… but once again– the love and pain of that loss is still there. I am trying to be strong— because I know this is what is best for me but can’t help but to feel that me moving on is me FORCING myself not to feel something that is still so very much in my heart. It is moving on and letting go because we HAVE TO not because we WANT TO………. and it is something that my mind understands but my heart doesn’t want to accept. =(
@ ARulesGirl2theEnd I don’t follow Christian Carter so my views on him are limited but I don’t subscribe to the ‘game’ mentality that accompanies a ‘catch him’ mentality because unfortunately many women spend time investing their energy trying to catch men that don’t want to be caught and at the end of the day, this is not what relationships are about. It also puts the bulk of the onus on the woman to take responsibility for a man and the relationship.
Leeanne,
I have a lot of difficulty with this situation as I have seen the extreme pain it has caused several of my friends, it effects the entire family. We all make choices and this is one I just don’t get as we know it can destroy so many. It’s not just the two of you.
Gaynor:
Understood– I would say that neither one of us is proud of being the “other woman” or being in these types of relationships… thus the reason for us saying and admitting not only to ourselves but on this site, that we were in a “bad or wrong” situation. I take responsibility for the choice I made (a really bad one) not just for me– but for the entire situation. Unfortunately we are all human and we make dumb choices sometimes (which is why we are on here) but from that I learned a tremendous amount. Not just about having made a bad choice, but also in coming across this site and knowing that part of it had to do with lack of love for myself. Again– I am not proud of having been in such a relationship– nonetheless I did love the man… and still do…and it sucks!
Gaynor, I understand your point completely. Never in a million years did I ever think I would be the other woman. Again, human beings make wrong choices. I think both Karen and I can both say that we made a mistake and we are ardently paying for it. I know I can say that not in just the heart ache but in other aspects of my life. I take full responsibility for what I have done and I do not blame him. For I allowed the bad behavior, etc.
Just as a side note- I think that we should all try to be supportive here, not judgmental. People may not agree or understand the choices others have made, but live and let live.
Maybe Im not ready?? I feel like I want to go back to this person. This person who is unavailable…. these feelings are a bit too much sometimes.. and I feel like just “giving in” until Im stronger. It seems as though I can’t stand the fact that he isn’t calling me or looking for me or acting like he wants me. Im sure maybe he is giving me my space…. after all… I was the one who broke it off with him…. that or he has just simply moved on to the next person either way— I don’t really understand what it is that I am struggling with. Is it rejection? Is it my ego? Is it abandonment? Is it acceptance? I’m having a hard time with this and Im afraid I might give in =(
Karen – Rarely are people ready to make hard decisions and if it comes down to being ready and easy, you’ll never be ready. You have to build up the strength and opting out of the decision you’ve already made is the easy option, and it’s also a kneejerk. It’s supposed to hurt – everything is a bit much sometimes but you have to keep going. If he’s not calling you and acting like he wants you, I fail to see the point of why you’re going back… I’m not even sure what you’re giving into – he’s not exactly waiting on the other side with his arms wide open… If he has moved on, it’s all the more reason why you should. It’s a combination of all the things you said and ultimately it’s like you want to finish it in a particular style – you can’t and if you go back, then you know what you’re going back to – nothing – and you have no room to complain as you made your choice and if I was him, I’d know that you had no self-respect and that you don’t mean what you say because you’d rather chase the nothing of him than recognise that the fact that he has nothing to give is all the more reason why you should stop giving and opt out…even though it hurts.
Don’t give in. It will make you look really badly to go back. I think your are struggling with all of the above. This is really hard. I know I have been through this more than once with my x but you just have to take it one day at time. If he wants to work things out he will come to you. Do not go back to the same ol’ thing. When I went back after the second time I broke it off it is because I thought things had changed and they did for a couple of months, but then he went back to being the assclown he is and I broke it off again because I am not going to take his crap anymore. Read your above post. It is on him to make a move. If you go back you are telling him you will settle for anything just to be with him. You will lose self respect. Hold on. You can do this. I know it is overwhelming but again one day at a time.
I don’t want to hurt anybody’s feelings – I am with Gaynor on the married thing, it hurts so many people in the long run.
You are dating a liar, a cheater, that is all you need to know to stop.
The only difference between the men we have been with and the men that everyone else has been with is one thing they are married. No one knows the history of how the relationships began. For all anyone knows maybe we were not informed of the fact that they were married when they pursued us, maybe they said they were separated or about to be separated. All of these men are liars, users, cheater, etc. Just because we made a bad choice in getting involved with married men does not mean our pain is any less or this is any easier than what everyone is going through. Remember NML, the creator of this sight, was the other woman. Her ex had another girlfriend. My feelings are not hurt by you not understanding or not agreeing with our decisions, what is hurtful is the judgmental tones and the total lack of regard or validity to our feelings just because I think the attitude is that we knew what we were getting into. That is not necessarily the case. No one is saying being the other woman is the right thing to do. This site is about unavailable men, married men included. Check out NML’s posts on what she learned from being the other woman.
It seems like the basic attitude is you get what you deserve here. Like I said before no one knows about the manipulation that took us to a place we never thought we would be.
Ladies (and this is to all involved, not just one person), I’m not exactly sure what I have missed here and I’m not about to play referee but as I have said before, I really don’t condone this type of thing in the comments. I have really tried not to be too strict about the commenting guidelines but I will become stricter if these situations keep on arising because every week there is something!
Please stop and please be respectful of the site and other readers, me, the commenting facility, and most of all, each other. I will close the comments on this post if this continues.
Karen- keep it up. Don’t go back. Get the book it’s called a break up because it is broken.
Thanks Leeane!! I’ve read it.. that and like a million other books!! I just feel that maybe I keep blaming myself?? Since I broke it off– I feel that its my fault he isn’t trying to contact me (which is a good thing I guess) but I dont know… I guess I would somehow feel better if he was chasing me….. (I don’t want to sound vain or narcissistic) but that is just the way I feel. Even If I said NO to all his advances or phone calls— guess it would just make me feel better that I knew he missed me or something. Again—- I don’t think its because he doesn’t want to contact me…….I think its because he is respecting my decision and doesn’t want to bother me. Honestly– I just want to get to the point where neither one matters. Whether he calls or doesn’t call, whether he cares or doesn’t care…….just feel like im obsessing– and that’s the feeling I don’t like!!! Right now my head is filled with HIM HIM HIM!!! He was away for three weeks and I can’t tell you how GREAT I felt not having him around (I work with him) and I felt FREE and like myself again not obsessing at all!! Like I was living life again. Now he is back…and I thought I would be ok/ready and now these feelings have resurfaced I have allowed it to disturb my peace of mind and I don’t know how to keep feeling the way I was feeling when he was away! It is very disturbing to me not being able to understand this.
Thanks for your post NML!!! I sent you an email as well…..
leanne,
He would contact by email first and then after I responded it was the phone…but it was almost everyday…he’s a real game player and knew how to push my buttons…
NML took the words out of my mouth…let’s be kind to eachother…we are not here to judge each other, but for support, advice and a place where we can freely bare our souls….I’m sure that we’ve all done things that “other people” could judge harshly…no one is higher or mightier than anyone else…
Leeanne -keep you head up!!! and don’t listen to the unkind bloggers on here.
Karen,
I’ve been going through the same thoughts and feelings as you have. I would want him to contact me, even though he broke up with me…I still craved him to chase me…but then when he did, I still didn’t get what I wanted…unfortunately, these relationships are doomed due to the men not wanting or capable of a “normal, committed and healthy” one. I also obsess and it upsets me because I also feel if I’m not with him then why am I thinking of him so much…but in time I hope it will get better…and if he does contact you it’s definitely not because he wants what you want…he’ll want only what he wants and you will feel worse.
correction…I would want him to contact me even though
“I broke up with him.â€
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