It’s time for another episode of The Baggage Reclaim Sessions.
In episode 33, I cover:
Personality versus character: There’s a big difference between the two and particularly in dating where we’re going to encounter personality before we really see character, we need to be discerning and ensure that we don’t jump to conclusions about what people with a certain type of personality will be like.
Being over-responsible: So many in the BR ‘tribe’ (I must settle on a name for our gang!) have assumed or been given way too much responsibility from a very young age. This habit affects our adult relationships as well as what we feel obliged to be and do, plus it leads to procrastination and trying to get others to be responsible for us [because we’re bloody exhausted!]
Some people won’t see it: I explain why burning up your time, energy and emotions pursuing someone who has done you wrong to ‘finally’ see things in the way that you do or to apologise or explain, is going to drain you out and that if you can acknowledge it, you can learn to accept that apology you never got and move on with increased awareness.
Listener Question: We had great dates including being introduced to his friends yet he’s gone silent–what should I do? This week’s listener started off dating with a view to finding a relationship, then relegated the date to one-night stand but then had more dates and has developed feelings, and now he’s not in touch. I offer some advice on what to do and explain why she needs to work out her priorities and decide if she has her one-night stand hat on or her relationship one on.
What I Learned This Week: I made an important visit this week that reminded me that not everything is about me (or any of us) and that when we blame ourselves for where loved ones won’t step up and are self-destructive, we’re not seeing that there’s something in their journey that we’re not necessarily privy to that is driving their behaviour.
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Listener questions can be emailed to podcast AT baggagereclaim DOT com and if there’s a topic you’d love me to talk about, let me know!
Nat xxx
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I feel a bit confused by your first segment! I think I get it, but it’s just odd because I am actually the exact OPPOSITE of what you’re describing.
*I* am the outgoing, super witty, funny,”life of the party” person who is constantly described as “charming”. But I (to my knowledge) am not abusive!
The guys I fall for are the opposite! I always go for the introverted, sort of socially awkward, shy guys who are either very artsy or very into tech. And at first I fall for them because they seem so SWEET, and I am attracted like a fly to honey by their quiet demeanor and occasional bursts of profound wisdom/insight.
BUT!! Look! Then later they turn out to be dicks! So please don’t paint all of us “charming” people with the same brush…it feels unfair although I get what you’re…but I do 100% understand and appreciate the reminder that:
“Personality does not equal character”.
That was like a lightbulb for me. Every time I found these “ideal shy but sweet and nerdy Oxford-Educated Bulgarian dudes with dark hair and brown eyes and tall and skinny working at big tech companies” I was so enamored by their personality (let’s just say I have a very strong preference for a “type” of personality and also the way they look.. I can’t help it, I’m just wildly attracted!), that I ignored CHARACTER flaws.
*although I get what you’re saying.
Also I am a perfect example of: “Someone who nobody ever has any IDEA of how much trauma and abuse I’ve been through, and my mental health issues unless I explicitly tell them which I never do.” So I appreciated that comment as well. 🙂
C,
If you really listen to what she says, personality and character don’t necessarily go together, sometimes personality can be just a veneer, but the character cannot back it up. It does not mean that charming personalities cannot have character.
Also, what is considered “charming” can vary quite a lot you know. I am not really “charmed” by extroverts at all, when it comes to romance.
It’s the quiet, mysterious, intellectual ones that drive me nuts.
Hi C,
I’m currently nursing my online dating wounds which are in line with the above podcast by Natalie. But this one from you had me in stitches, “…I’m attracted like a fly to honey by their quiet demeanor and occassional bursts of profound wisdom/ insight…” Too funny. I’m a sucker for those “bursts of profound wisdom/ insight.” And I never learn. I want to unlearn the habit but can’t and I need help. My dad is highly educated and full on burst of profound wisdom/ insight. I think subconsciously I look for that. Even in going through men’s profiles, If I don’t see at least “Bachelor degree” on Education, I don’t consider giving them time or even want to know more. And I know so men lovely men who are great, loving and respectful men, boyfriends, partners and husbands who don’t have bachelors. Might share my story in the future, but currently reading here everyday and learning more.
Hey Afro!
Dating is a tricky thing, isn’t it? I recently had my heart completely shredded and the dagger turned from the guy I actually described above. (He legit accused me of raping him the morning after. I didn’t. He said verbatim “I want you to fuck me”. He knew I had been drugged and raped in 2012 and had suffered PTSD.
He backed away from “rape” quickly (in fairness he never used THE WORD but what he sent me sounded like it), but it triggered the worst panic attack I have ever had in my entire life and lasted 2 days. I came closest I have ever come to throwing myself out of a window, and had to go into a stairwell to call a crisis line that was far away from the window. I told him repeatedly that I would literally rather die than do that to someone.
Then, he made me wait a solid WEEK before he would talk to me about this in person. Then he dumped me, did not care whatsoever about the PTSD reaction (even though I explained to him that it had nothing to do with him), made some mean statements about my character (when I had been more into him than anyone I’ve ever dated and was trying hard to be what he wanted despite his previous criticisms), told me…we had no connection except for sex.
Turning the dagger MORE. We had been dating for four months.
I tried to apologize multiple times, he completely ignored my apologies. would not respond.
It wasn’t so much the breakup even, it was how it went down.
I can deal with “Oh, C, you know, I think we’d just work better as friends”. Or, “Hey you know, I think you’re just too extroverted, I’m looking for something else”, or “Hey you’re just not my type”, god ANYTHING, but he just dug into my CHARACTER. that hurt more than any breakup has ever fucking hurt.
I still feel like a monster. I categorically know, logically, that I did not rape him, and what he said was completely ridiculous, but that I could make this (In my view completely perfect man for me) feel like that….even though I was trying my damnest to be a good girlfriend…. it’s really scary..
Yeah this guy seems to have had issues. But maybe that’s just what people tell themselves to make themselves feel better. There’s always a nugget of truth in every accusation, right?
Ugh I need to stop thinking about it. literally makes me nauseous.
And before anyone marches in here with some asinine comment about how “it is not even possible for a woman to rape a man!” no, that’s not true, it is definitely possible.
A lot less likely? Yes. But it is 100% possible because I personally know a man who was raped by his girlfriend.
As for education, Afro, look, I don’t think you should feel bad at all for looking for a man with a degree! For crying out loud!!!!!! I think you are being a bit ridiculous.
I would never date someone without a degree, unless they had attained an job comparable with someone who had a degree. Why? Because I MYSELF have a degree from a top university, so why should I ask for less?
We are allowed to have STANDARDS! Don’t go for anything less!
To clarify, I have dated and am close friends with men who don’t have degrees. But it’s not like they just are not smart or not dedicated, or don’t have good professional jobs.
They didn’t complete their degree programs for various reasons. Would this be my first choice in a man, someone without a degree? Most definitely not! But what I’m saying is, it’s not the paper that’s important. If they can show that they have good qualities and are very intelligent in other ways, then that’s fine with me.
And I’m completely put off by charming men. My father was one of the men, so well described by Nat, and I know very well what is hidden behind that “soul of every party” charm.
Omg but that is such an unfair to thing to say. Good lord being charming does not automatically make you a dick!! I am very charming when I want.to be and I am.not. jerk. And I have met an EXACTLY EQUAL number of assholes, male or female, in both the “charming” and “non-charming” catagory. Even Natalie herself later said that it is Character that matters, not Personality! So don’t just automatically assume all us charming extroverts are jerks because that simply isnt true! The number of charming extroverts and socially challenged introverts who are jerks or not jerks are Exactly The Goddamn Same!!!!
I feel that there needs to be some clarification here as it feels like this could rumble on:
Being charming is no crime but if it is the thing that stands out about you or a person over all other qualities or characteristics, examine this. In terms of qualities and characteristics used to describe a person, if the term that springs to mind about a person is charming, by and large it represents an issue because in society, people don’t typically market themselves as charming nor do people typically use the term about someone *unless* they are doing what are typically charming activities.
I did not say that all charming people are shady so if anything, step back and try to hear what is being said and if anything, try to understand why it is so important *to you* to be charming. There is a context to the whole ‘charming’ issue, hence the podcast topic and pointing to https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/charming-tends-to-be-a-precursor-to-code-red-problems/ It’s about sincerity and if someone is consistently demonstrating themselves as sincere, they will not be referred to as charming because the relationship has developed beyond the surface of the initial charm of someone plus charm is not what is employed if and when bumps are run into.
I think as well, much as you may criticise Mephista for her comment, your comment about people with degrees and going to a certain type of university is not fair. Having a degree and going to university degree has little to do with character. A certain type of person does not go to university. It is perfectly OK to choose a person with a degree and from a similar university but just keep in mind, that doesn’t mean that you can assume that you’re similar, even if you did exactly the same degree and graduated the same year.
Not sure why there is caps and “goddamn”. I appreciate that you are heated up about this but it’s important for comments to stay within guidelines.
Sorry Natalie, you are right, my comment went out of bounds! I apologize sincerely for that. When you are an argumentative person by nature, sometimes it is easy to get a little too excited about debating on the internet! Your points are 100% understood.
Thank you C. Your comment is very much appreciated.
Me too, Mephista. At my father’s funeral a man came up to me and said what a great guy my dad was and how he loved his sense of humor. I just looked at him stunned and all that I could manage to say was that I didn’t know that guy (or that side of him – can’t remember).
My dad was Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Hyde. Charming scares me, but so does really, really quiet. He was quiet right before he exploded and somebody got hurt.
Typo correction:
“so many lovely men….” Not “so men lovely me…”.
Natalie, I don’t ever listen to anything on ITunes but I will leave a great comment on your ITunes account just because you asked! Cuz I like your stuff that much. But I can’t figure out how to do it! How do you leave a comment on the Itunes page?
Oh nevermind! I figured out how to do it! But Nat listen I think it would be a good idea to just post a quick blurb on HOW we can review your podcast on Iturns.
C,
She stated that we must must be discerning and not jump to conclusions based on the personality (public face) displayed by people because it may not be indicative of their character (private face / def: the mental and moral qualities distinctive to an individual). We often get the two confused and think a pleasing personality or charm reflects a person of good character. You must get past the surface to find out how they are consistently and are their words / actions congruent.
Oh my goodness, I think I just realised for the first time in my life that I am not responsible for everyone else… I am sitting here like I’ve been hit by a brick.
Thank you Natalie! I wonder if you would consider fleshing out the responsibility role in a blog post or something. I think my life may have just changed today!
– Phoebe