A few years back when I was single and causing my mother to worry I’d end up a ‘spinster’, she said, “When I was your age, I had guys chasing me all the time and buying me things. Jewellery, TVs, and all sorts.” She rabbited on for ages, and when she finished I said “Yes, but where are they now?”
When I ask you what your man has done for you lately, it’s not about material gifts or grand gestures. It’s more about his actions. It doesn’t matter what he says. His actions tell you the real story and let you know exactly what is going on.
Words allow you to believe in the fantasy, the potential, and the hype. Unfortunately, acknowledgment of his actions and what they mean kill that all off. Often when we engage in discussion after discussion after discussion with our guys, we could have all of the answers by taking our cues from their actions. You know you’re in trouble when actions don’t match words.
“I’m really into you. I’ll call you”, yet you’re wondering where the frick your phone call is a few days later and replaying the date in your mind wondering what you did wrong. However, it’s more a case of him not having the balls to shut up. Instead, he wanted to give you the feel-good factor at the end of the date even though he knows he’ll kill off that good feeling within a day or two. He doesn’t want to be cast in a bad light.
Don’t focus on what he says; focus on what he does.
“I love you and I really want to be with you…”, but he’s still with the girlfriend/wife. Forget the fact that he may sex you so great that you’re practically swinging from the lampshade afterwards or that you feel like you can talk about anything and everything. He still skips home to her. He’s still having his cake and eating it.
Why don’t their actions match their words? It’s because they…
– Like to avoid confrontation.
– Fear hurting your feelings.
– Enjoy the short-term fringe benefits of being with you without casting an eye to the medium or long-term picture.
– Don’t like to endanger the flowing tap of sex.
– Don’t want to be perceived as assholes.
– Don’t know what they want but they’ll figure it out on your time.
– Do know what they want but they’ll mess with you anyway till something better comes along.
It’s dangerous to look for gaps in what these guys are saying as a reason to stay invested. That mentality is a total avoidance of the bigger picture. In order to keep these guys in our lives, to keep the fantasy going, we tend to focus on the things we like, the little glimmers. We love the sound of words, especially ones we deem to be the right words that give that tingly feeling and have us putting their surname on the end of ours.
But words, especially those that prop up relationships, need actions to solidify them. You could cut back a lot of your dating and relationship misery if you became more visually aware. All the fancy things, gestures, and words don’t mean a thing if you still end up confused, miserable, upset and struggling with ambiguity or settling for crumbs. Make sure he’s walking the walk, not just talking the talk.
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Great post!! Whenever I do a manslation, this is the first thing I say:
“If there is ever a conflict between what he SAYS and what he DOES, always, always look at what he DOES.”
Great insight, and it really is always the way to read a man.
Jeff Mac
Fantastic! As you know, we women have quite a bad habit of focusing on what is said (or not said). Especially when we call our gf’s crying “but he said he loved me”….etc.
So true, and it also goes in reverse theory as well.
If he SHOWS you he is into you, but has problems with the words (shyness, whatever) then go by what is shown. With some guys, just the effort, the trying to do the right thing, being a stand up guy…even if the words don’t come, well it can mean a whole hell of a lot more.
Take it from me, recently dubbed by a friend as “Our Lady of Perpetual Anxiety”…
NML, I think you left out one other reason for a disconnect – lack of discipline, lack of character.
That is, he wants to do his best, but whoever is near him, friends, family, co-workers, whoever occupies the next stool at the bar, can tell him something and he redefines what is ‘right’. This is a wishy-washy wimp of a guy, not to be confused with the similar, but much more sinister, ethically challenged guy with situational ethics (he thinks right and wrong are whatever works at the moment).
You need a man with balance, willing to listen to others, but needing to be convinced before changing his mind or letting others change his mind.
I have a question:
As a Fallback girl… I have realized (after stumbling on this site about 4 months ago) that I too play a role in having allowed this type of behavior and Assclowness into my life. I’m sure most of you aren’t going to agree- but I try to be friends with my xAssclown/EUM… because I feel that a friendship is possible. I cannot and do not want to remain ANGRY and hateful towards him for the rest of my life….not to mention… Im trying to be mature about him having lost interest in me and I feel that staying angry is still showing him that he has power/control over me. It seems better if I can accept that although I was not happy in the relationship– i chose to stay there as long as I did….and that part is not his fault. I know better now…but can i and should i really be angry with him? He is someone I would like to still have in my life.. on a frienship basis…. perhaps a romantic relationship didnt/couldnt work— but does that mean a friendship cant either?? Because while i still care…..i am able to switch to only being “the friend”…. and care for him in a different form/way. Sure– i ask myself what exactly was it that turned him off about me and yes that part bothers me but I also feel that a nice amicable friendship can emerge from all of this… if we can both truly agree to forgive the past, acknowledge that we werent suitable for a romantic relationship– but agree that we could be good friends. Is this delusional?? Just seems to go against everything that is mentioned on this site— but I think it is possible. Does anyone agree with me?
Sorry, I don’t agree with you and I think you should really, REALLY figure out WHY you want to be friends with a man that caused you pain or disappointment or hurt. Friends don’t do that. Are you hoping that he’ll see you as a wonderful freind and that will lead to a romantic relationship? if that is your motivation and be mindful that it could be an unconscious montivation, then yes you are delusional. EUMs DO NOT change and if they do it won’t be because you were nice to them and was a good friend, it will be b/c they have chosen to change…for themsleves.
You have the right to be angry if someone has hurt you. Work through your angry and learn to forgive youserself first, before you start showing him what a great gal you are b/c you’re able to not be angry. All that shows him is that you have no boundries and that you will put up with people hurting and disappointing you.
Forgiving,
I’m sorry I don’t understand why it is so important to remain friends with someone who has treated you like garbage? These are not normal relationships, these are relationships where an individual uses, lies, deceives, stings along and in some cases cheats on us. Who needs that? Would you accept this kind of treatment from other friends?
I don’t understand the relationship between being friends and remaining angry, you don’t have to be friends with someone to not be angry with them. To me it doesn’t sound like you’re letting go and are showing that that their behavior is acceptable and that you don’t deserve better in your life. How can you respect these men, I know I don’t respect my ex?
I’m sorry to be harsh but why invite more toxic people into your life?
I was angry and didnt speak to him for almost 3 months. I let him have it at the end and let him know that he had hurt me. Finally one day he contacted me (well I allowed myself to answer that phone call) and he said that while he didnt think we could have a “romantic relationship” that what had happened to the friendship that we had seemed to form at the beginning? That he hadnt contacted me because he didnt want to bother me. That while he understood that i was mad/hurt….and that he had made mistakes in the relationship as well, that I had done my share too. That we were just not compatible in that way but that I mixed up the friendship part of it with the “relationship” part of it..and that part he doesnt understand. Needless to say— I felt that a part of what he was saying rang true. (not sure if its because he managed to make me feel a bit to blame for what had gone wrong) and so I agreed to try and be friends with him. I did tell him however, that even friends have expectations of one another and that while I agreed that he was not a good boyfriend, that I would give him a shot as a friend. I have managed to keep it very formal and platonic– he has too. Yes a part of me is still attracted to him etc…but i stay away from that. It does seem to bother me however, how he can be ok with JUST being friends,,, or perhaps keep his attraction in check as well. Are we both just trying to be mature about this? Or am I just falling for another ASSCLOWN Tactic? I am friends with several x’s of mine and its strictly platonic. In fact, I feel I have been better able to assert myself while JUST being friends than in the relationship itself. There have been times that these X’s have insinuated or made overtures of something more than a friendship– but then I say to them: No thanks… been down that road with you before… where were you then? Not interested in going on that ride again…. And I have to say that to an extent it feels good that I am able to stand up for myself and do this. Perhaps its because I am rejecting them back? Perhaps its because I feel I am in control now? It feels good to be able to go back (as friends) and fix something that I was not able to do while we were in a “romantic relationship”… do you think this is what im trying to with my xEum? DOes it show that Im weak or something if I am friends with him?
Forgiving,
If you still have feelings for the guy then you’re in it for the wrong reasons. In a ‘normal’ relationship I believe a friendship can exist but with these guys, why bother. As I asked before, why do you need someone in your life that has has treated you poorly in the past? Would you have accepted this behavior form your other friends?
I guess because I believe that remaining angry with an EX because things didnt work out — is more of a sign of weakness/not being able to accept the rejection etc… than just letting things go. I’m not saying that this person has to be your new best friend but I have also experienced some really great friendships that were able to blossom after a breakup. In fact, in some instances, these guys have become my sounding board for when I am dating someone. They are able to give me advice from a perspective of having been with me and vice versa. I know many friends that I have had arguments with or that have hurt me in some way or another but because we are GOOD FRIENDS….. we have also been able to talk through it, forgive and continue our friendship. After all… we are all human and if i ever did something that hurt my friends/family etc…. I would want them to offer the same forgiveness in return. Now im also not saying that if they say im sorry and the behaviour continues that its ok…..im talking about people that have sincerely apologized and we have been able to move forward from that. So I apply the same theory to an X. He nor I are perfect……. and perhaps things didnt go right, mean things were said, hurt was felt etc… etc… what is so wrong in trying to make ammends and come through in a different light? AT the end of the day …. why continue to hold the resentement? Once again– im not saying this is should be the case with EVERYONE. I am not good friends with my x husband for example. We just communicate when needed (for our son) but dont chit chat and talk about eachother;s lives or call on our bdays etc….. I cant imagine that no one else on this site can possibly see the value that forgiveness can bring?
one more thing: My x made me realize something very important…. because I am a Fallback girl .. I tended to form my expectations (while ignoring red flags) during my relationship with him. It was my fault that i was betting on the potential rather than seeing things for what they really were. We all choose to see what we want to see… and as a Fallback girl– our vision can be very cloudy (or perceived through very rose tinted glasses) as opposed to seeing things for what they really are. I was intense…. he showed interest and instead of taking things slow…. I got all excited and ignored so many things that he was saying and doing/not doing. That was my human error as a woman– to not have stepped back and evaluated things better. His part? Not stepping up to the plate…not having the courage to communicate better with me….. etc etc..etc… so we are both dysfunctional (obviously) Doesnt NML Say that as much as these EUM’s have issues…. so do we as the women/men who are attracted to them?? So arent we on the same boat??? So why is it that we can’t both learn from this experience as a means of having recognized these things having been together and now emerging has better people? I know that if it hadnt been for this relationship– and all the pain/drama (which is really my own and what i am projecting) i would have never been so hurt to have found this site and learned that I was in a relationship that didnt benefit me. If it wasnt because of this experience, because of the triggers that he pushed within me perhaps the fact that I have issues to contend with myself would have never crossed my mind! I would still be sitting there thinking that it was just bad luck, that all men suck, that its ALL THEIR FAULT. At least now I realize that I can take control over the role that I play in all of this and do something about it. Having reached this realization, while I still care for my X……I agree that it is not the best for him or myself to be in a romantic relationship– becuase we both have issues to contend with. And if we both agree that while we can still feel attraction for one another and perhaps maybe even love….. that a friendship is the best alternative for both of our sakes and sanity. With that being said,,,,,, I still don’t understand why a friendship is not seen in a good light on this site??
Forgiving,
It has nothing to do with forgiveness, it is about allowing people who have treated you terribly back in your life. I have forgiven my ex but do to his behavior I have no desire to let him back in: you can forgive and let the anger go w/o that person being present.
The Bible says-I am not religious-that we should all forgive but it also says you should not to be a fool by allowing bad people into your life.
There was something that you said that I thought was a bit funny. It was about your feelings when your were able to reject those that had rejected you, it makes me wonder why you pursue friendships with these guys and what your motivation is???
I agree with working things out with good friends, we all make mistakes, but if any of my friends treated me the way this guy did they would no longer around. I have to respect and love myself enough not tolerate bad behavior and set boundaries in my life.
Hmmm… you could be correct Gaynor about my motivation about being friends with these guys. I am a work in progress and do question myself about that… which is why i wrote it to see if anyone can help me understand that. Perhaps like Kissie said…it is something I am doing subconsiously. I think about my friends who are x’s for example……and while i do enjoy the friendship because they are funny/we have certain things in common etc.. etc… Im not sure if after the break up because it takes so much out of me emotionally, i cannot and do not go back to them. I try so hard to get over them that once I am I dont see myself capable of going back to them because perhaps Ive seen them for who they really are and what they are capable of doing. Because I have detached myself emotionally enough to see things for what they really are…as opposed to the fantasy and the illusion that I have created in my head about them. And then I realize that I was only living in my own fantasy that I alone had created. Im not sure if I am really purposefully rejecting them or if its just because that is the way it goes….karma you know… that I dont choose to be with them anymore and they do (to some extent) and I wind up rejecting them. I am not a religious person either and I wonder if i am a fool then for allowing a friendship? I do get a lot of them saying to me… you are a wonderful person and I regret not being with you…..but by then its too late….all I want or can handle being as close to is a friendship. Am I fool or do I just have too much of a big heart? Because I do feel i care about each and every one of them……and the only way i know how to have them be a part of my life without hurting me– is to maintain a certain distance emotionally– which is why the friendship.
Forgiving,
I really think you need to examine why you need these people in your life? It seems to me that it is filling some emotional need .
Let me ask you this, do they continue to treat other women the way they treated you? After my experience with the AC, I realized I had two emotionally unavailable friends (not close friends) in my life. I made the decision to cut off the friendships as I recognized they were selfish, irresponsible individuals (to me and others) and I didn’t have time for people like this anymore.
All of NML’s articles are insightful but I think the series that may be the most beneficial to you is the one on “Boundaries.” Check out the three-part series.
Gosh im not sure Gaynor. I can only say that I really care and want to be there for EVERYONE that comes into my life. I dont know if I am just a weak person but I can only explain how i feel. If i think about one of my x’s who I am friend’s with for example: He is just breaking off a relationship with someone who he has lived with for two years and who he was considering marriage with. Now to be honest… at times I asked myself…wow..it seemed he could be so committal to this person and faithful etc…. why couldnt he be that way with me. But the past is the past and so I just listen to what is going on…. so to say that he is treating her the same way he treated me…i would say not really. Now… I do think to myself that I can help him. For example…..he wants to start dating already (he hasnt even moved out yet!!!) and yes– he has mentioned for he and I to start dating as well……..and just today I told him straight out……do you not think that there is something very unhealthy about the fact that can and are willing to start a relationship with someone else when you havent even moved out yet? I said… I love you as my friend but because I am your friend…I am going to tell you that i think that is completely unhealthy and while I can say that you have been there for me and that i love you— that doesnt necessarily mean that you and I have to have a “romantic relationship” now does it? (see once again– i am rejecting but not deliberately). That is how i feel…that we can help eachother through our issues? Ok this may sound crazy but when two people lets say are alcoholics…….cant they help one another because they understand eachother? I sometimes feel that way. Is this filling some emotional need for me? Im not sure…you are not the first to say that. If it is…….what kind of emotional need could it be? Is it soo subconsciously hidden that I am not aware that it what i am doing? You know what sounds more crazy? Is that they treated me better as “the friend” than the “girlfriend” and that to some extent has made me feel better or that it has provided me with some sort of closure/validation. Well obviously it sounds like I need a lot of help……just not sure like you said– where my motivations are really stemming from. Like i said……. I like being friends with my x’s…being there for them….helping them…..etc…etc…having some meaning in their lives and yes— getting the occasional…”thank you for being such a good friend to me”. That perhaps means more to me than having a physical/sexual/romantic relationship with them. What need could that be filling?
Hi Forgiving
Sorry I agree with Gaynor and Kissie. Whilst I do not this man you are friends with and therefore cannot completely understand your friendship with him, I know this is similar to what I went through.
My AC said all the right things, at the right time – all the ‘I love yous’, or my personal fav, ‘If only if I met you 4 years ago I would be with you.’ His actions were completely contradictory. So when he said one day he ‘just wanted to be friends’ I tried it out because we had a lot of things in common. We were like the one person.
But what I soon realised that this is not what he wanted. He still wanted the benefits of me chasing him and feeding his big-a** ego. He would invite me out for a ‘friendly’ lunch or movie session, and when I said yes, he would cancel on me – this happened 3 times in a row, which made me believe all he wanted was a ‘yes’ so that he could feel big when he ‘rejected’ me. Occasionally when we did meet up, he would flirt with me and as a result confuse me. A real friend does not get their rocks off by hurting someone, nor do they flirt with you.
Let me ask you, was it him that suggested that you both be friends? Was it his decision? Because if it is then you are still playing by his rules.
What NML has called this is maintaining the status quo – he has managed down your expectations of him and the relationship and you are accepting the crumbs of friendship.
I don’t think you are emotionally detached from him because you said that it bothers you that he can accept being just friends, and that you tend to stay away from the feelings you still have for him. (NB – Are you possitive that you are able to stay away from them forever. Because if one day you give in to these feelings, you will either be rejected by him because he wants to be friends, which will make you feel bad, or you both end up kissing (or whatever) and THEN he still rejects you and you will STILL feel bad…)
You stated also, you were not speaking to him for 3 months because you were mad at him, obviously still emotionally attached to him. And it was unfortunate that he interupted your NC, because you were still not neutral in your feelings for him.
It is good you have forgiven him but to still be attracted to him just means you are possibly still hoping for the relationship door to be open.
I think you need a longer break from him to access your feelings for him. I am not saying you can never be friends with an ex, but in order for the friendship to work, you have to be void of any hate or romantic feelings towards him.
I have been in NC with my AC for almost 2 months now, and even though he contacted me last month (and I stupidly answered) it was a good thing, because it just reminded me that he is a selfish boy who always puts himself first. And it helped me realise that I do not wnat to be friends with him, regardless that we have so much in common.The rose tinted glasses were off and I saw the situation for what it really was.
I cannot remember which post I read this from, but it has always stuck in my head – “Absence does not make the heart grow fonder, it makes it wiser”
One of my favourite posts on BaggageR is called ‘You don’t have to ever stop loving your man’ which says that you can love this man in your own way, forgive him, and still move on … without him in your life. Have a gander.
Also posts called ‘Can Men & Women just be friends?’ and ‘Boomerang relationships & the yoyo girl’
I love this site and like you say without these men we would have never found it. It has made me access myself emotionally so that I can deal with insecurities and make me stronger when I tell future AC to get the hell out of my life.
Seriously, try and see what life is like without him and if he is a true friend he will still be there in the end. Like NML says “who knows, you may find out you don’t want to be friends with him …”
All the best.
Well if everyone is telling me the same thing– than there has to be something not quite right with my way of thinking about these friendships. I will say that my xEUM does not try to flirt with me or ask me to go out etc… we are both very platonic. Not sure if that is better or worse? Did he initiate being friends… yes. He knew i was hurt/upset and I didnt talk to him for about 3months. I dont see how he could have been looking for an EGO stroke when like i say… he isnt flirting with me or asking me out or trying to get into my pants. If anything– to be honest… this sort of bothers me because I guess to a certain extent– I would want him to try. Cause if he did– i would think that he still desired me and by him not doing that– i feel that he doesnt. But either way i think its better…and if anything I do the same. I dont flirt or try to initiate any type of inuendos. I am really trying to just “be friends” and unless there is something i am missing…i think he is as well??? Unless it is also an EGO stroke to just have me as a friend? I mean unless i give in (which i dont plan on) if he were to EVER initiate something more….than I would say thats what his true inentions were but he isnt trying to do anything! If anything– he is extremely formal with me which if anything– erks me sometimes but i respect his approach. I dont know…perhaps you are right Alison– he still wants me to play by his rules and by me being his friend…it is still on “his terms”. Is having a friendship “crumbs” if im ok with it though??? I dont know Im confused now….and it seems that i am the only one seeing it the way I see it so not sure what is really going on but thank you for everyone’s input. Perhaps there is an emotional need that i am trying to fill— if that is the case….not sure if this site or NML can help me???
Hi Forgiving. You and only you know what your true motives for friendship are with this guy. We all have different ideas about what friendship constitutes, and truth be told, you are highly likely to realise that you don’t have a basis for a friendship with this guy. Ego stroking is not about sex or flirting even though it can come from that. Ask any woman who is a platonic friend of an emotionally unavailable man who has gotten wise to the dynamics of the friendship – you can still be an ego stroker without any hanky panky. Look at the same types of men who surround themselves with lots of female friends – a narcissistic harem. The fact that you want to be friends with him in spite of how he has behaved sends a signal to him that you are still invested in him. The fact that you still need him to desire you and that it bothers you that he hasn’t tried it on tells me more than enough to know that you are not at that point where friendship is appropriate. If you’re going to be friends, it may happen in 3, 6, or maybe a years time but you don’t go from being involved to friendship – there has to be a break and you have to cut the emotional ties, heal, and move on, something that I don’t feel you have done. We use the desire to remain friends in these situations as a reason to stay invested, as a reason not to let go, and often as a reason to validate or invalidate things that we believe, and to avoid dealing with the actual hurt and pain caused by the relationship ending. Friendship with these types of men is about keeping the options open, managing down your expectations, and pretending that they’re not as bad as they know themselves to be deep down. They don’t like to think you’re not interested, they don’t like to think you’re not still emotionally attached, and they don’t want to give you too much where you end up expecting anything from them. It’s also tactical to be formal because it unseats you and you may react to it and do things such as fuss around him and make the bulk of the effort with the friendship so that he gets an ego stroke. If you are happy with crumbs, that is your prerogative. If you want to say ‘hey I am OK with crumbs’ then you are likely to also say that to people you get involved romantically with, and what you’re really saying is that if you are OK with being treated in a certain way, then what the hell. There are women who are involved with cheaters, beaters, liars, emotionally unavailable, all of these things together and an awful lot more things that represent poor relationships. You’d be surprised at how many of them have decided that these things are not crumbs or bad behaviour because they are “ok with it”…
If you want to be helped, Forgiving, this site can assist you in your recovery. Because make no mistake all women who date EUMs are women who love too much and that is a disease. There is a book of that title that I would sugggest you read. I did and it helped clarify a lot for me the underlying reasons why I did things I did for and with men.
Forgive me for being blunt, but in a way you are an enabler. You feel you can fix this men by being the good female friend. Do you have female friends? Do you do things with your female friends? Do you like spending time with yourself, alone? every once in a while? Or are men and your “relationships” and “friendships” with them the focus of all your time and attention? Are you afraid of not having a man in your life in some form or capacity? Do you subscribe to that Jamaican adage I used to hear women say when I was growing up “a peice a man is betta dan no man”
Stop. Think. Take some time away from obsessing about forgiving these men and being a good “friend” to them and figure out what you want and who you want to be for yourself. It’s still cumbs even if you are willing to accept it. But the question you must ask yourself is why are you willing to accept crumbs? …particularly from your “friends.”
Forgiving,
Don’t give up on this site.
The fact that you call yourself a Fallback girl and that you are even questioning this friendship just goes to show that you are not completely happy with it and that there is indeed a lot of ambiguity surrounding it – there shouldn’t be ANY confusion when talking about friendships, they should be the easiest of all relationships.
When you say that you want to be there for EVERYONE that comes into your life, it shows you are a caring person, but sometimes you need to be selfish and think about yourself once in a while. Putting everyone else’s needs before yours is an exhausting and impossible task – believe me. It does not mean you are still angry with these men if you don’t want to be friends with them, you can forgive them and still move on.
Are you, hand on your heart, happy being friends with him? Are you happy that he told you he wanted to be with you at first and then, for whatever reason, tell you he just wants to be friends? Can you honestly say that you have no romantic feelings / hate for him? (and I know you do because you said “Yes a part of me is still attracted to him etc…”)
Think about it … and like I said before, take a break from this guy so that you are able to find yourself and answer these questions.
NML–
Excellent advice to Forgiving. A woman TOTALLY CAN be an “ego stroker without any hanky panky” in a completely platonic friendship with an EUM. A college friend (who I never dated, or would date!) has had a narcissistic harem of many other mutual female college friends (many of whom are now married!), none of whom he ever respected (b/c they have always been so pathetic and obvious in their attentions), for the past 15+ years. Once he was about to marry, he began to act as though ALL of us were “jealous” of his bride. I called him on his general past bad bad behavior, and, years later, on his bad treatment of me in particular, as to how he thought I was “jealous” of his bride-to-be (too funny!). I thereafter ignored and avoided him at a party, where he did try to approach and speak to me. But now, not only does he ignore me, but he also has gotten his best friend to do so, too! (Good Riddance, guys!!)
I guess I was supposed to be “forgiving”–but, after so many acts of b.s on his part, it was too late for me to be forgiving!
This site helps me figure out the power plays among the friends that I have had over the years. They must all be friends with each other b/c they are all EU. They all come from homes where at least one parent was extremely domineering. They all have stayed emotionally immature. And the women, they will put “dicks before chicks” into play in a heartbeat, as the situation “permits” (in their minds!), and will be my best friend the next day. It’s sickening.
Why do these guys (and women)–the ones who consciously KNOW that they are bad “deep down” as you say–have such a problem with looking like the bad guy, or being called on their bad behavior? Especially when it’s so obvious that they are being bad?