This month, I’ll be catching up on some overdue R&R and so while I will be posting plenty of new stuff, I also wanted to revisit some previous posts….
This time of year, whether you’re single or in a relationship, can bring about an incredible amount of anxiety. It can also have you thinking and doing things that in retrospect, when you get to January, will have you wondering if someone was coming into your home and spiking you with a cocktail of Drama and Relationship Crack. I of course, say this with experience.
One particular December was spent ‘negotiating’ (read: stating my case, laying it down on the line, discussing, arguing, wheedling, telling him all about himself and lather, rinse, repeat), with the guy with a girlfriend.
I had this fantasy that he would be so devastated at the thought of me being out of the country with my family and having the possibility of being swooped up by a better man (’cause ya just know I kept reminding him that plenty of guys would want to treat me better), that he’d break it off with his girlfriend and announce that he was coming to Dublin with me. The reality could be summed up in four words – “You know my situation…”. Then I accidentally left my mobile phone in London – I spent the whole Christmas hiding in the toilet crying and making sneaky phone calls plus I’ll admit I wondered whether he would have fulfilled my fantasy if he’d been able to reach me… Thank God I stopped taking the delusion crack.
I’ve also had several Christmases – about fourteen of them actually – where the anxiety about buying a gift for my mother and ‘measuring up’ has had me overspending and/or being riddled with such a desperate urge to be validated that I’d feel ill.
I’ve ended a relationship before Christmas because I couldn’t face having to grin and bear it, and then I’ve grimaced my way through another and thought that I was going to experience a Miracle on Assclown Street when it was more like A Nightmare on Assclown Street – cue me having to wear the ‘gift’ of clear heeled hooker shoes, ‘nude’ coloured tights and short leather skirt so as not to ‘offend’ while I grimaced through tears. I left the bar after 15 minutes and literally felt like I’d sold my self-esteem to the devil.
If like me, you’ve done all manner of bonkers stuff around The Holidays, whether it’s suddenly reaching out to an ex or being receptive to their rather pathetic overtures, or suddenly thinking you’re owed a miracle and a happy ending, it’s time to ask:
What’s so fricking special about December? Why do you allow December to take on all manner of meaning and start making grand assumptions, even grander plans, and buy into the fantasy?
I get December on a whole spiritual and religious level. Even on an emotional level, I recognise that as the end of the year approaches, it’s natural to be reflective, but it doesn’t explain why we allow what is another month in the calendar along with some heavy marketing, peer pressure and more importantly, internal pressure along with our overactive imaginations, vaginas/penises and libidos to turn us all crazy.
It’s just December. It’s just The Holidays/Christmas – how much power do you want to give away again?
For people who are struggling with their self-esteem or an unhealthy relationship, you spend eleven fricking months of the year handing your power over to other factors such as your current partner, or an ex, or your job, or your past, or your family or whatever, and now December comes along and it’s like it owns you.
I remember a very old episode of The Simpsons where Homer almost gets himself into an affair situation with his coworker Mindy. All evening he appears to be getting signs, including from a fortune cookie, that he’s going to have sex with her. He ends up sitting beside her on a bed in a hotel room looking utterly miserable as he announces that they’re going to have sex. Mindy tells him he doesn’t have to and he says “Yes we do! The cookie told me so.”
That’s what December is like for a lot of people.
They hook up with exes, buy cards, send texts, reply to what can only be regarded as low level contact, break their necks trying to think up the perfect gift for someone undeserving, allow themselves to be used as Christmas beards where they keep someone’s bed and their ego warm for the season so that they can pretend that their life is better than it is, hold shit relationships together as if the magic of ‘December’ will fix problems that only you both can fix, bust their proverbial nuts about how crap their life is in comparison to an image of happiness that they’re being sold by companies that want to make money out of them, and essentially allow themselves to be ‘led’ by an image of a month.
When January arrives or even before the month is out and you’re asked why you did this stuff, it’s like “I had to do it! December told me so!”
For some of you it’s “I had to do it! The adverts like the soppy John Lewis one or the Coca Cola ‘Holidays are coming’ ad told me so!”
This is bullshit! It’s no wonder we get angsty about it when we’re being sold ‘Christmas’ from as early as October – we’re being sold and if you don’t have the presence of mind to remember who you are, your values, and the fact that there’s eleven other months in the year, you may end up doing something in the short-term that leaves you with a medium to long-term hangover.
It’s like “Screw it! I’m going to throw caution to the wind and send that text or buy into the fantasy (again) that my ex who has already shown and told me who they are might gift me with my fantasy of them making me the exception to their rule.”
It’s just The Holidays. Yes it can be a pain in the bum if your family are crackerjacks and descend into arguments at the dinner table (that would be mine), or you’ve fallen out (that was us last year), or you’re hurt (I’ve ticked a few Christmases off with that one), or you feel like it highlights everything that’s missing from your life. But don’t get things twisted – it’s just a few weeks and you can make them as big or as small as you want to, but whatever you do, put yourself in the driving seat of your own life.
Unless you’re taking part in a nativity play, you’re not a sheep.
Whatever your religious inclinations, the true meaning of Christmas/The Holidays was never about opting back into a poor relationship to massage your ego for a few weeks or holding onto something that detracts from you just so you can say that you’re miserable but you’re with someone.
Stay off the Relationship/Drama Crack – it doesn’t work for you during the rest of year, it’s not about to suddenly give you the ‘fairytale’ because it’s December!
Your thoughts?
Also check out 45 tips for surviving Christmas and dealing with Happy Birthday’s and big occasions.
Check out my book and ebook Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl in my bookshop.
About the Author:
Natalie Lue is the founder and writer of Baggage Reclaim and author of the books Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl, The Dreamer and the Fantasy Relationship and more. Learn more about her here and you can also follow her on Facebook and Twitter - @baggagereclaim .
Natalie (NML) – who has written 1082 posts on Baggage Reclaim by Natalie Lue.
• 
• 
• 
• 
Related Posts
184 Responses to Revisited: It’s JUST Christmas/The Holidays – Stay off the Relationship/Drama Crack
Get Notified When There’s A New Post
Natalie’s Books
I'm also on Google+.
Also Ninja,
I have to disagree with the new age hogwash that posits ‘we are responsible for the people / & situations we attract’. This is egotistical in the extreme! To suggest that we ‘attract’ situations is frankly, dangerous. I was told this once on a team building day in a new job. I told the facilitator running the session she ought not be working with sexually abused children if she was really so NIAVE as to BELIEVE such a crock of shite! (The job was working with abused kids! Turned out this woman had been watched one too many re-runs of ‘The Secret’. *Rolls eyes*)
The ONLY THING WE ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR IS CHOOSING WHO WE ALLOW INTO OUR LIVES.
We don’t majically ‘attract’ abusers. It’s not something WE DID that brings them to us like flies. They try their schtick on ALL COMERS & then sit back & see who puts up with it.
The only exceptions to this, are that there ARE traits which women involved with abusive men are likely to have I.e. low self esteem. However, this often isn’t the case at the START of the relationship; rather it results from the abuse endured DURING it. Otherwise, men with NPD (as most sufferers are male, although a small minority are female) tend to be attracted to women who are successful, attractive, empathic etc. Again, nothing there wrong with the WOMAN.
Just had to say that b.c if there’s one thing I can’t stand it’s this mumbo jumbo crap that ppl spout off as fact which is frankly, so rediculous, it’s ABSURD!
teach, ninja
I think you’re both right. I went to a conference on human trafficking and apparently the traffickers can walk down the street and spot instantly those they can target. It won’t be strong women.
However strong or weak she may be at the outset, though, by the time they’re done with the woman (or girl), she will certainly be in worse shape than she was before.
I don’t believe these women/girls attract their attention. Nor do they deserve what they get. But certainly the only person who can get them out is themselves. Even if they are offered help, it’s still down to them to take it. That’s a leap of faith.
Most of our situations aren’t as bad as being trafficked and we are no longer children. But yes we have differing levels of choice and understanding. We certainly ended up worse off because of what we have been through. It is still down to us to leave and rebuild.
I don’t care anymore about the abusive ex. The injuries bother me sometimes but he means nothing to me. He could be a narcissist, psychopath, bogstandard EUM, personality disordered or Satan. I don’t care. It is not interesting. It took a long time to let it go but I don’t think it’s the plan to stay in the valley of death.
It doesn’t matter what they think of you. Whether they think you’re strong or weak or attractive. Who are they?
Teachable, I completely agree! It´s completely childish to believe that everything that happens to us is somehow the result of our thoughts or intentions.
Also, if things were so simple, then why wouldn´t we just be attracting pure bliss all the time? We would be quite stupid to have any trouble at all, if it´s a matter of just thinking about all the nice things we want in life and then just making them appear magically. I could think of a lot of wonderful things I´d want for myself, like winning the lottery, getting married to a Matt Damon lookalike who would be forever faithful, not getting any wrinkles…
I think this new age mumbo jumbo isn´t only silly, but also dangerous. If you happen to run into bad luck, like getting cancer or having an accident or meeting an AC conman you also end up feeling like shit and putting yourself down because, according to this theory, YOU made it happen! So how can you pull yourself out of these situations if on top of everything else you´re the one who did this to yourself? So besides having a bad experience, you also turn out to be an idiot!
I do think that you can analyse your role in some situations, like why you´re sticking around in a relationship that has proven to be bad for you, but I don´t think you can go as far as believing that everything happened in the first place because there is something wrong with you. Bad things just happen because that´s life, and life is much bigger and powerful than any individual´s wishes. The only thing we can influence – and this to a degree – is how we are going to deal with life´s troubles and how we are going to get out of bad situations.
teachable:
Late the the conversation but totally agree. One of my super-abusive stepmothers was into all that new age crap and she once told me that I had chosen my birth and my life…this implying of course what it was…which included her being physically and emotionally abusive and being put up for adoption and then my beloved adoptive mom dying.I remember then, even as a kid, just wanting to say “Uh no, if I had my choice do you really think I would have wanted your crazy ass in my life? That was m dad’s and your choice.” Grr. I am all for owning things to a point, but when people start to say things such as “you chose the car to hit you, or kids choose to be abused…you chose to meet your rapist” Uh no, they chose to do it, and someone was victimized. Period.
Teach,
Agreed. No one asks for abuse and it’s NEVER okay under any circumstances. I think the new agey stuff takes things a bit too far during a time when “super responsibility” means being the victim was somehow your fault.
It NEVER, EVER is.
It’s awareness that gives us the opportunity to CHANGE things, including purging demons from the past that contributed to dysfunction.
Every single person here is a miracle. I say that because I have seen many survivors NOT change and choose to stay engaged in drama, even after they come to awareness. YOU ALL are walking miracles because to face yourself in a naked, brutal truth is the hardest thing you will EVER EVER do!
Teachable.
I agree with many of your points but, I do believe that if we had had higher self-esteem, we would have bailed at the onset of the disrespect?
There was something very wrong with me for continuing with such a silly ‘relationship,’ I should have exited much sooner. I was half the problem, thankfully I now know what I deserve: availability (no ties to ex), respect and love.
Check out holosync by bill harris – changed my life. Not for the faint hearted and certainly no magic thinking involved. Dont take my word, experiment for yourself. Take the course.
Children have no control over what happens to them. Vulnerability, size, weakness, fragility, easy to manipulate etc is the attraction for abusers. To blame them for situations out of their control is unprofessional to say the least.
If I didn’t look at ‘me’ i’d keep attracting the same person/situations over and over. I believed myself to be dysfunctional and did something about it. Yes, it was ugly and there was a lot of melt downs but this course separated the wheat from the chaff in terms of therapies that actual work.
The Secret used Bill Harris actually. He wasn’t happy since he was edited out of context, but ultimately if you read his blog from the beginning he explains all.
Not sure its for you though.
From Holosync…
‘There are four things you have a choice about—IF you are aware enough to see how you create them:
1) How you feel…
2) How you behave…
3) Which people and situations you attract or become attracted to, and…
4) What meaning you assign to whatever happens.’
Ninja,
That is the key: AWARENESS. Many people who get into these relationshits are not AWARE that perhaps childhood traumas are being acted out in a repetitive fashion with abusers. I didn’t “attract” my abusers, they were allowed to bust my boundaries. Because I didn’t have any. Nor did I have awareness as to why I was participating.
I think it’s a miracle to come to awareness, even though it is painful initially and even for a time after. It’s when awareness happens that we become totally responsible for change. Change CAN’T happen without awareness. Denial is a very powerful force. I spent thirty years in my adult relationshits this way before I came to awareness. The pain of being in, was worse than the pain of being out, hence PAIN is a great motivator.
K
I read somewhere that the only way to overcome your destiny is through awareness, which is also the road to wisdom. Translated, this means exactly what you say: when we live in denial it is like being programmed to behave in a certain manner (aka that is your destiny). Only with awareness comes free will.
In my extended family there is so much denial going on, on so many levels, sometimes it seems like they are blind and deaf! I´ve grown a powerful aversion to all the excuses and bs. But then, when you face reality and start to see things as they are, others don´t like it because it threatens their own defenses.
Lilia,
Very true. I think one of the reasons I’ve been struggling through the healing process, is that after the last ex assclown, with awareness, I saw my life littered with unhealthy people. I’d been NC with my bio fam for a few years prior to ex AC curb boot, but I also saw friends that were unhealthy too.
I had to do a lot of “house cleaning” in my life because there was so much BS. Even with two of my children too. It has been very, very hard. And very, very painful.
But the aversion to dysfunction and abuse, was more than my willingness to put up with it anymore….
Blind and deaf, yep. Unfortunately, many will remain that way because it’s safer under that warm fuzzy blankie of denial…
Teach,
I agree with you about what we “attract”. This is not only dangerous, but is very defeating. I have had many survivor say to me, “I’m a spath magnet!” So much so that I wrote a post about it.
IT’s bullshit because you will meet and run across many people in your life through many situations and circumstances. You WILL be targeted by spaths no matter who you are or where you go. It’s up to US to ward them off with our health boundaries, and knowing our values, morals, etc.
I DISAGREE with you however when it comes to a BEGINNING of these relationships. It is the MOST DANGEROUS time with a spath or narc. And SHE IS AT A DEFICIT WHEN THE RELATIONSHIP TAKES PLACE and CONTINUES. I have not met ONE survivor, not ONE, who was “healthy” when the psychopath got her. She had a vulnerability or an unhealed wound that allowed him to bust her boundaries.
This is why fast forwarding in relationships is so dangerous. You MUST have solid boundaries and be very aware of your vulnerabilities and very HEALTHY in mind to see red flag behavior, which is usually seen at the very BEGINNING and fast forwarding is one of them. It is amazing how many times this simple red flag is MISSED. One of many
Ninja … I appreciate your post and recognize that you are speaking of taking responsibility for yourself and your choices/actions. It was a very humbling day when I saw my part and the hurts I’d caused throughout the years, to my children, others, and myself. And I feel empowered as well. No longer am I the victim, angry, or helpless. I have direction and peace and am not at the mercy of anyone or anything. Thanks for sharing.
All credit to you lo j,
Its difficult to take on a whole new perspective. In fact, difficult is an understatement! When you see things from a new angle it’s hard to believe you were ever immersed in those dysfunctional ideals. It feels good doesn’t it?
Just keeps getting better!
Merry Christmas
x
Reflecting on my growth over the past year. Last year, at this time I was miserable waiting and hoping I would see the ex (MM) over the holidays. I knew off the bat that I would not see him on Xmas eve, Xmas Day, New Year’s eve or New Years Day because he had to be with his wife. I settled for this and for all the other crumbs he threw me. This year I’m looking forward to spending 15 days with my wonderful boyfriend. We are planning what we will be doing together on the above mentioned dates. He has asked me two weeks ago what I would like for Xmas. I was totally stumped as it never occurred to me what I might want from him. We both realize we don’t need to jeopardize our financial status, going all out with expensive gifts. We are VERY HAPPY just having each other. He is my gift and I am his. No tangible item can be better than what we have together.
Tinks thankyou for your kind words , i am better than i was a couple of months ago . I plod on tho the last two days set me back knowing hes left his wife for someone eles . My gut instinct knew back in march this new ow had turned his head and when she ob went nc in him he pursued me . Then she came back and i knew i was for high jump . Now they are together , i cant help feeling used a prop and now hes happy im just a disreguared piece of rubbish . I wish like him i could meet someone and not look back . And yes its the why her not me im sorry to say slips thro my mind . I stay nc but some days its so hard just to function .x
Tired…
It hurts to hear you like this. Try to re-frame your thinking. He treated you like rubbish because HE is rubbish. He’s not happy. She’s not the love of his life. She’s a more willing victim. YOU had guts and strength and left this childish little man because YOU realized YOU deserve better than him.
Don’t envy her. Instead, be grateful that YOU had the courage and the strength to have willingly walked away from this particular chamber of horrors and torture. Be proud of yourself for honoring yourself and doing right by you.
Please quit focusing on him. He is nothing. Read the advice you give to others. You sound very strong and confident in those comments. Treat yourself they way you’ve been treating the people here who are hurting…with the love and compassion you so obviously have in abundance!
LPB is right Tired. You have come so far and should be so proud of yourself. He will do to her exactly what he has done to his wife, to you, and whoever else has had the misfortune to cross his toxic path. It worries me that you see another relationship as your way out of the pain. To be honest I think you need to come to terms with it on your own, slowly and surely, to avoid putting yourself in any more danger from potentially nasty suitors, especially over the holidays when everyone is feeling a bit silly/lonely/fruity. Look in the mirror and tell yourself what a fantastic independent woman you are and that you are going to have the most brilliant adventures in 2013.
Today is the one year anniversary of when he decided to pull the proverbial rug from my feet. Right in the holiday season which includes my birthday. I was stunned, I never expected it. Last year was the first time I didn’t celebrate anything. My mood was blue.
I spent the year grieving and doing what we all do here:
1)googled all the information about personalities and mental health issues from Aspberger’s to a PhD in cockroach behavior to understand HIS behavior.
2) Did all the introspection about me, in order to understand MY behavior.
3)Tried to figure out HOW to stop thinking about him, how to forgive and let go.I followed every scrap of advice from NML and you posters.My
mind and heart weren’t in it, I went through the motions but I joined clubs, made new friends, got
a wonderful new job, and kept pounding your insightful comments into my head. Now I find I have lots of fun activities with a rich life with wonderful people.
Now a year has passed and I ask myself today,
“Well, what have you learned about yourself?” Some answers: I had repressed parent issues that surfaced when triggered by this father figure. That I have empathy and the joy to love. I am human and made a mistake, an error in judgment about the character of another person and potential for a loving relationship. I ignored red flags.
I’m not bitter or angry just amazed at the way people treat each other, the variety of relationship experiences we have, and how people make significant moral decisions around intimacy
and attraction. I think now before acting on the impulse of my emotion.
“No contact” is a challenge since I must see him once a week. My detaching has taken much longer than I hoped. I still have some detaching time left so I’ll come to BR for Nat’s articles and your collective moral support.
I hope some day when I am completely healed to share my story and advice to help others just
starting the journey here.
They say time heals all wounds.
I just put up a Christmas tree.
Simple Pleasures,
“They say time heals all wounds.
I just put up a Christmas tree.”
That made me smile for you.
Time does heal. First from stopping the heavy bleeding, to a scab we inevitably tear off from time to time as we unravel our pain, it gradually changes to a discolored raised scar that is still sensitive to the touch but no longer bleeds. Soon, the scars starts to fade, we have to look for it now to see it. We start to focus on other things. In time we forget the scar and the wound altogether. It becomes a story we have we no longer need to tell.
Selkie… I do agree with the time does heal therory you suggest. And also sometimes we bump/pick the scab off and have to start the healing process over again.(i.e. breaking NC) However, I sometimes find myself comparing the person I was while with him and the person I am today…This has change me but I cant put my finger on how ?? I just know it has.
Simple,
I think this is the hardest part of healing…recognizing that it’s really TIME that will make the difference. We are such an instant gratification society, we want to be out of pain NOW, but pain serves a purpose in healing if we are willing to endure it. You’re doing VERY well for not being out such a long time and coming along just fine! Good for you for your willingness to endure!
I feel inspired by your post!
Simple Pleasures, keep putting up that tree…that made me smile too. My major break up with a MM was two years ago this month and my two anniversary with BR! Thank god. Selkie is right, it will become a “story we no longer need to tell”. Or maybe a story we only tell to help others. Along that line and in the holiday spirit, I just had an encounter with the exMM after over a year of NC at a pre-holiday party. I wasn’t expecting to see him and when he walked in, I thought my heart would do the pitter-patter thingy. It didn’t. Maybe after reading all of your brill posts Natalie and all the fabulous comments, I didn’t feel anything. Maybe some residual pitter but NO patter. It was a weird kind of stillness. Of course, we walked out together and it was like old times, however something was missing. The fantasy was missing. He wasn’t on a pedestal. He was just a middle aged, over-weight, white guy with nice hair and a cute smile…who is still MARRIED. So Simple Pleasures, I think you summed it up nicely: “I think now before acting on the impulse of my emotion”. I am pleasantly surprised at how little I felt. Maybe it is reality, living in reality, having values and boundaries? I would have thought seeing him would have ripped open the wound. It’s just so weird.
I just put up a Christmas tree too.
BR ladies, you are fabulous.
Simple,
It sounds like you have gained much and have come a long way! I can relate so closely to your story- time will make you even stonger.
Enjoy the holidays and your new life!!!!
Christmas is when my caring for others syndrome goes into unhealthy overdrive as I try to “make others happy.” I don’t regret putting energy into the holidays when the kids were young – that was fun. But I can see that my resentment and sadness due to my ex not tuning in, being not helpful or not seeing any of my needs partly came about because I didn’t feel entitled to say, “no, that doesn’t work for me.” (especially at Christmas when we are all supposed to be so happy and loving). I would wait until it got to be too much and then explode or just cry. I remember several Christmases where I drove down to the beach, completely exhausted and sat in the car crying. My ex “knew” but didn’t have a clue.
I am a generous-hearted person and am okay with this but need to understand why I often have felt that I have been left holding the stick and how I contribute to this. I definitely need more boundaries at Christmas and this year am going to really focus on that. I am really glad this was posted now because I need to do this prep work!
Jennifer, La Pintura Bella & Tammy,
All I can say is Thank you. It felt so good to hear your responses. My best friend and I had a big argument Friday night about this but she apologized the next day.
I know I’m healing & it’s so true about that was not him. Days I begged him to bring back that guy I met in the beginning and he never did. I thought for so long what did I do that was so wrong. My friends made sure I didn’t go down that path.
Sharing with me, I did nothing wrong, except for the first time he disrespected my boundaries, I stayed and ignored the behavior. I’m sure with this site and positive affirmations this will be a great holiday for me.
Thanks again.
Lilla. I concur. Of course, it our responsibilty to ask ourselves, why we did we STAY in a r.ship with someone who was abusive (if indeed we were IN one with them, in my case, I wasn’t), however, that is our only responsibilty. The rest of it you point out very astutely. I actually put it to that facilitator, so are you saying if someone is randomly hit by a car, through no fault of their own, or gets cancer, & has never smoked that they have ‘attracted’ this? The answer was yes! I resigned ON THE SPOT knowing I could not possibly work with such crackpots! Insane!!!!!! LOL
And Lilla. I watched The Secret because I was so sick of hearing about it & the type of fanciful majical thinking you describe, where one can conjour up ones desires merely by ‘intently focusing on & wishing for them’ is EXACTLY what it espouses. ie a load of rubbish. People who believe this shite & then trot it out to abuse survivors ARE dangerous, for precisely the reason you point out. This clap trap blames the victim of abuse rather than the abuse perpetrator for them having been abused! Newsflash. ANYONE can be a victim of abuse at the hands psychopath or narrcissict because they don’t START OUT being ABUSIVE. What matters is RECOGISING the abuse as abuse & OPTING OUT (because by the time it gets to this point women are often quite confused about this due to the minf*ckery inflicted upon them in these toxic relationshits, & the fact that part of the abusers MO is to ISOLATE them from ppl who will give them OBJECTIVE feedback, & therefore they tend to doubt themselves).
Teach that is NO lie. The worst AC I ever dated had read ‘The Secret’ and believed that hogwash. He just really believed it had turned his life around when really all it did was give him an excuse to keep emotionally abusing people. His thought was that people abuse you because you are weak, not because they are azzholes. Noone is strong enough not to be abused, the strongest lady I know who would stand up to anyone including her husband, was shot to death by him. The only thing we can do is work on our self esteem and heed the red flag warnings we see in the beginning. My niece is a target because she suffers from the abuse and abandonment by her parents and is slightly autistic. We cannot change what happened to her, but we are trying our hardest to help her learn how to protect herself from people/classmates who try to take advantage of her.
Teach, I also watched The Secret and besides insulting to my intelligence, I found it boring as hell. It´s incredible, how otherwise educated people will believe that crap. I´d rather believe in fairies, at least that would be more fun, lol!
Did you know that they sell programs to train your mind to change the color of your eyes? (And to attract lots of money, the perfect partner, reduce cellulite, whatever.) You just listen to a bunch of CDs and your eyes magically change their DNA.
Wow, if something like that exists I´d want some CDs to make my children stop quarelling all the time, and behave like the von Trap kids!
Just being sarcastic, of course, but the point is that these programs actually imply that it´s my “fault” that I was born with a certain eye color and that I´m not a singing nun in the Alps.
Teachable, I concur about this idea that WE attract what comes to us being total BS. Like you said, we are responsible for staying once we’ve seen the writing on the wall, but attracting an abuser??? That not only doesn’t make sense and is blaming the victim (something this society is oh so great at doing), it literally makes my blood boil!
I am a rape survivor. So by this logic, I attracted my rapist??? Sure I did. I asked for it, too. My bad.
Also, my father is a narc. He can be very emotionally and verbally abusive. Again, I attracted this? Seems to me in case #2 I was born into this and had no choice in the matter at all. None. Zilch, Nada.
These theories, best-selling books and films can be very dangerous because the author, theorists, whoever don’t think their entire premise through beginning to end. They make the theory fit their desired outcome a lot of the time and don’t look at ALL of the ramifications of what they are spewing out as absolute.
In the case of my rape, it took almost 30 years for me to finally believe that on some level I didn’t cause this horrible thing to happen to me. If we start believing that we are responsible for attracting everything that happens to us, society will end up dealing with a lot of rape survivors, crime victims, abuse survivors who buy into that and become even more emotionally damaged and require even more services to heal properly.
Just my 2 cents.
Lilia,
LOL! I’m glad I’m not the only one who thinks that way! It is a bunch of crap! I couldn’t finish it.
It is amazing that reasonably intelligent people buy into it.
I don’t get it, but *eh* to each his own.
Teach,
The most dangerous time in the relationshit is the beginning. ALWAYS, ALWAYS,ALWAYS. The disordered are master manipulators and many of them very seductive in technique. FLATTERY in heavy doses like a drug are given to her. The LOVE BOMBING is the biggest most dangerous sign of a disordered or other toxic individual. It is the height of their deception, where they build up the most lies and the biggest fantasies for her to fly away on. Many women think that he is “so wonderful” at this stage, when the truth is, that he is so manipulative, deceptive and exploitive. One of the main reasons women have a tough time getting out is BECAUSE she remembers the BEGINNING with him. If these people removed their masks from day one, they’d never have victims.
As easily and as fast as they attach is equally as fast as they will DETACH. This is why I emphasize so much about going slooooooooooow in relationships. Some spaths can keep the mask on for up to a year, but that’s an exceptionally good spath, most red flag behavior shows itself from the very beginning if we have healthy boundaries, self respect and can clearly see another’s disrespect. His love bombing IS AN INSULT.
Wonderful!site .couldnt ve come a better time.i feel encouraged
Dear Lilia and Grace
Many thanks for your comments and you both are absolutely right. I am not anywhere near ready to cope with having him come into the home he left so easily and neither are my daughters. As you can imagine, in the 4.5 years, they too became very close to him so it would be unfair on them. Our little boy is too young to understand this year and hopefully by next year, I will have accepted things.
I am sorry to hear you have been through this a couple times Lilia. When my first husband left, I was relieved but not this time. I just loved this man so much.
Anyway, out of the two relationships, at least I have the gift of my beautiful children.
I don’t feel I’ll ever let myself be involved with another man, not least because I don’t want to be hurt again but I don’t want my children to be hurt again.
In the meantime, I will only be contacting him regarding our son and will take on board your kind advice. I had a really good day today for which I thank God.
Kind regards
What I want to say to all the women on this site that have dated married or emotionally unavailable or non committal men is that both women are victims in the case of the mistress and wife of a man’s selfish emotionally abusive behaviors and dishonesty. Number 2: All women need to raise their self esteem and don’t ever think that you deserve sloppy seconds from a man. You should all treat yourself as your own princesses and Goddesses and should never put up with a man not giving you all of his undivided attention and love. If he is incapable of fulfilling your every need all the time, cuz he is married,unavailable, a workaholic,alcoholic,Mama’s boy or whatever send him packing. Learn to love a man that is worthy of your love cuz he has shown that he adores, appreciates and respects you. If none of these are present from your man, then you need to ask yourself ” What is wrong with you, for tolerating dysfunctional and disrespectful behavior from someone who calls himself a man? Cheaters are sissies that are insecure and need constant ego boosts by sleeping with more than one woman. Love yourselves first! These men have no regard for anyone’s feelings but their own, no matter what comes out of their mouth. Actions speak way louder than words in my world. God bless all of you and strength to my fellow sisters out there!
Janina
Janina,
AMEN TO THAT! To these men we are ALL THE OW!
Great post!
To no fault of our own, our childhoods being dysfunctional/codependent /abusive/with parents who are personality disordered, we feel “familiar” with these men (and they with us), hence there is an initial attraction on both sides. I was in dysfunctional relationship after another (emotional abuse) while my other friends from healthier upbringings went on to have healthier relationships. They didnt even date whack jobs. So was I attracting/attracted to these guys? You betcha. It wasn’t bad luck. I wasn’t stupid. I had had some therapy, read all the books, but that unconscious familiar from my upbringing was still there. It does not mean we are LESS THAN. And it is something we can change. That’s empowering, freeing to me. And yes, these whack jobs are no longer attracted to me, well, not enough for attempts for my attention, and I certainly have no attraction to them.
LoJ
Yep, after my third (I lose count) crappy encounter in a row I suddenly realised, no one is this unlucky!
I wasn’t kidnapped or attacked or penniless. I,m not referring to those situtations. I had choices regarding who i got involved with. It,s very freeing.
Being love bombed, fast forwarded, pushed for sex, put down, ignored, compared to other women would send me running now. I have Zero interest in that. I don,t like charm either. I no longer fall for any of it. It,s repellant. I forget now why I found it so fascinating, that,s how much a person can change.
lo J
I have been approached by a couple of them since ex AC. One of them was a fast forwarder. He was SO obvious to me. I remained mostly silent throughout our early exchanges. I just LISTENED. It was the most amazing feeling…being an observer and having acute awareness in red flag behavior. I saw it within twenty four hours and never went back to the place he worked again (a store I use to go to everyday). THAT was a freeing experience for me, because the excessive flattery and seductive talk as well as playing the VICTIM, were all there. With last AC, this kind of talk would have been perceived by me as flattery, interest…this time it sickened me. I was SO PROUD of myself for seeing and believing and trusting in myself. I know these men will appear in my life. They are everywhere, but it isn’t about their appearance or believing I attract them, it’s what I DO about it that matters.:)
I use “whack jobs” as a catch all. Not politically correct, my apologies, and yes, I was and can still be one from time to time. Not meant to be hostile.
K. I’m on the same page as you. I have 20+ years behind me un tge social work sector. I have worked the whole gammit of roles. My specialty areas were as follows: (complete with oodles of ongoing professional development training in these areas)
counselling & support work with women & children who are survivors of abuse (physical, sexual, emotional, financial, ie the lot)
working with women who are survivors of the abuse & sufferers of mental conditions including bi-polar disorder, BPD, MPD (now dissociative identity disorder), schitzophrenia, AOD issues (& hence dual diagnosis clients with very complex presentations), & various other mood disorders
Male sex offenders (including teenage male sex offenders & adult male sex offenders. Of the adults, I was more in a research & policy role & would train & advise staff & evaluate our programs one of which was for a residential re-integration program for adult male sex offenders with axis 1 diagnoses (primarily schitzophrenia) post release from prison.
I understand completely that women who fall for the charms of a narc or a spath are likely to be operating at deficit in one or perhaps even multiple areas of their lives when such types first arrive on the scene, but this ought not be equated with neccessarily being ‘unhealthy’. In many cases it may simply be that someone has been single for a long time (nothing unhealthy about that if one has been holding out for the right reason, waiting for small children to grow older for example), or that someone is distracted by work & financial pressure (again unless EXTREME, not unhealthy & rather, just a fact of life sometime) or perhaps even widowed after a marriage of many years & therefore unaccustomed to dating so somewhat naive! Others are not in any of these sorts of situations (as opposed to someone who really IS unhealthy, ie codependent, for example, or suffering a mental illness of their own) & can STILL suckered by a narc! Hence, it shouldn’t be automatically assumed that someone who fell prey to a predator was unhealthy. Some perhaps may have been (as ppl are reconising here), whilst others simply were not (I would put
myself closer to this end of the continuum).
I also agree that the START of a r.ship is critical to working out just what you might be dealing with & for this reason I too, since my late teens, have always taken a LONG TIME to get to know ppl before getting intimate. This is most likely why I don’t have a trail of unhealthy relationships behind
me. There just aren’t any. There has only been this one unfortunate experience, with someone I was NOT in a relationship with, whom I had feelings for based our past relationship which was a normal relationship & not at all abusive. Even then, my contact with this person after realising I was being emotionally abused this time around, was very minimal. Still it was enough to be damaging & I have been humbled & moved on.
To everyone else, I can see I’ve stirred up a bit of a hornets nest. Those who see things as I do, for whatever it’s worth, IMO, I think you’re sane. Of course, there are many things which are our responsibilty. However let me be clear. An abusers abuse is NOT one of them.
To each their own though & if others view things differently it is not my place nor desire to attempt to dissuade you from whatever you feel works for you.
Just don’t anyone try to tell me that survivors of abuse are responsible for being abused because they ‘attract’ abuse & abusive ‘situations’ to them. I have never heard a
bigger load of BS in my life & seeing as this is my area of professional expertise, I’ll take my two plus decades of training & experience over your opinion anyday.
PS No-one is stuck here. Big assumptions they are that some people make! LOL
Teach,
You are right and I appreciate the clarification.
With the survivors I’ve worked with, if there wasn’t issues that they had that were “unhealthy”, they were VULNERABLE, which is what you’re describing. Predators like women too who are a challenge, ie: “healthy” but vulnerable. The differences I see with these women is that they have a tendency to get out sooner than those who do not. I know there are exceptions to the rules, but I underscore the importance of not only boundaries, values moral but to also be acutely aware of vulnerabilities. Predators LOVE newly divorced women, lonely women (single a long time), widows, unhappily MARRIED women (challenge!), and even women who are successful in every area of their lives, but are VULNERABLE in ONE area. He will exploit it. Still, I find this to be unusual…If you’re aware of your vulnerabilities and boundaries, and you know what a predator does, and what he looks like, the chances are pretty slim you’ll become involved. Healthy women, who have a solid sense of themselves, and their vulnerabilities and know the behavior of these guys, can see their games relatively quickly.
I’m impressed with your professional bio teach! And you’re on the disability track too? You seem to have much flexibility, yet at the same time, in working with survivors, it can be very stressful and draining work, even if a passionate work if you love it like I do…
And Lilla. You are RIGHT. Self awareness is KEY. If I was coming to BR, with a story of how I’d had multiple unhealthy relationshits, & was wondering to myself, how on earth did THAT just happen, it WOULD be time to say, hang on a minute, maybe problem here is ME. In that case it might that my ‘people picker’ was broken & I needed to fix it! That however is not my particular experience.
BR is a blending pot of all comers. Indeed I would not want anyone going through the above process, to shy away from it, as if one is going through such a thing, that is a VERY important process to go through & remedy.
However there are also ppl like myself, who have already well & truely done that work, but who not being perfect (is anyone? lol), have found themselves dealing with a single experience & have therefore chosen to revisit it in a new & different way.
I think the main thing is for ppl to think & believe whatever works for them. I know what works for me & although my progress is slow, it is steady, & given the weight of the issues I’m sorting through, I’m doing ok. More than ok really. My counsellor is amazed how I keep going. I just smile & think if you think THIS is bad… LOL
PS My sister responded very well to the bounderies I just put in place to ensure I don’t flo her or allow her to dump on me. Feeling very pleased with myself. I figure if I can nail this stuff with my dysfunctional family by the time I’m ready to start dating again, I’ll have just about earned a black belt in boundaries! LOL
Teachable … what do you mean when you say,”I just smile and think, ‘if you think this is bad?’”
Not sure what the hornet’s nest you speak of is either. Can you explain?
There’s no hornets nest at all. Or at least there won’t be! X
Ick Lillia. Be very careful whose advice you decide to take on board (as I can see you already are). I think Nat gives heaps of much needed SENSIBLE advice too. That’s why I come here.
The statue idea cracked me up. Clients used to give ME little tokens of appreciation, but I never got a statue! I do believe yr token for Nat trumps my little offerings SPADES! LOL
And I’m glad there’s no hornet’s nest Nat. I got enough balls in air here without adding anymore! Specially not ones that STING! Ouchies! LOL x
I do have one embarressing little confession to make.
Being ill an all, & sick in bed a lot of the time I got bored last week & put up (I’m so blushing right now) an internet dating profile. Actually, I didn’t want to post a profile, but you couldn’t do a casual ‘search’ without creating a free one, so I did. I got the idea of ‘just looking’ from Nat’s Ppl Supermarket post, & I was sooo bored, that when an advetisement crossed my screen saying, ‘look at this’, I thought, oh why not… I’m just looking.
Anyway, my profile stated, ‘I’m not sure if I’m ready to jump into internet dating yet BUT I at least single & have been for quite a while’. What was so funny, was NEXT, Nat posts the article about ‘Buts’. I looked at a few profiles, & thought sheesh, there’s so many fella’s here, even if I did feel ready, how would I know where to even start. I then decided the whole thing was completely rediculous & took the profile down 24 hrs later. So THAT folks, was my great foray into internet dating!!! I really don’t feel ready yet so I’m glad I took the profile down. I’d a visit that week also from a friend who,is about to marry a lovely guy she met through internet dating, the second such one to do so, & I think that made me a bit curious too.
Reckon I prolly just saved myself a whole lotta holiday season crapola right there though!!! LOL
I might feel like I’m the ‘snail’ of BR b.c I’m taking things so slowly, but I DO have a lot going on which needs my attention first & WILL get there eventually. I believe, I believe, I BELIEVE!!! LOL
La Pintura Bella. I’m sending GIANT hugs through cyber space. Exactly as you describe is the issue. The ONLY person responsible for rape, is the rapist. That is not say though, that as survivors, we can’t learn self defence & ways of decreasing the likelihood/statistical probability of such a thing happening again. Even so, it can STILL happen again & if it does, rape survivors ought always know that they are NEVER to blame for the abhorrent criminal behaviour of others. T Xxx
Teachable:
Thank you for the hug. Believe me, I know I’m not responsible for the rapist/abuser’s behavior. However, I know that there is a common tendency to blame oneself in spite of knowing it wasn’t your fault. Don’t know why that is… Perhaps it’s a warped way of searching for a reason that this happened to you…or the hard to die victim blaming that people still engage in because it makes them feel more in control that it could never happen to them. Or maybe it’s survivor guilt. Don’t know.
I brought it up because of the whole “envision it and it will be” and the “you are responsible for what you attract” philosophies that were being debated earlier. As a way to demonstrate how a lot of this stuff sounds great until you get into the VERY broad spectrum of human behavior. These philosophies, to me, seem to forget that real evil does exist out there, that truly horrible, devastating things happen to really good people every day through no fault of their own.
If only it were all that simple, BUT life is never simple!
Thanks again for the hug.
Magnolia, I think you’ve worked some of yr majic here as I’m feeling much better & at least laughing at myself & my above foolish antics!
Grace, Remberto & others, I did see yr posts & am happy to see ppl thinking about what is actually quite a critical issue. That is, where DO we draw the line at what we are & are not responsible for?
I’ve said my bit, so no need to re-iterate. No doubt Nat will maybe post something on this at some stage also. I would remind ppl though that are some here who ARE survivors of experiences in childhood, they genuinely had no control over.
What we CAN & indeed ought to choose, is how we might respond to similar experiences, now, as adults.
PS LoJ I saw your post but have declined to reply based on your previous comments to me in the past, which I considered to be quite unwarrented. I wish you well.
I wish you well, too. I have great compassion for you, as your childhood experiences were horrific and I can’t imagine how you survived.
But I have not seen anyone here say that a victim, of rape, abuse in childhood, and other horrible experiences were the fault of the victim. I wasn’t to blame for my childhood or the abuse I endured and neither were you. I don’t know if there are philosophies out there stating that, I haven’t seen it, (especially regarding childhood abuse), and I just didn’t see anyone here saying that. Maybe you were speaking of other ‘new agers’ outside of the group, but no one here seemed TO ME, to be saying that. I know this is something you are very passionate about and may have picked up on that in your comments instead of feeling like you were implying some of us completely disagreed with your ideas. (Which, btw, if we did, would not be ‘wrong’.)
So there was no hornet’s nest. And my apologies to you, sincerely, for anything I have said to offend you, or others. I have stepped out of bounds on here a time or two, and do in life as well, but am looking at myself to see areas I personally need to correct and why I am triggered by certain situations. My intent with you is not to provoke. I would like to be able to comment or offer alternate ideas without it being taken as such.
I’m sorry Natalie for going off topic.
8 REASONS WHY TO NEVER EVER GET INVOLVED WITH A ASSCLOWN MM
1.Dont spen another minute helping him live out 100% Happy Life
2.You are Making it possible for him to stay in an unfulfilled Marriage.
3.Make him ACCOUNTABLE
4. If he can Fall for You..Someone else will to.
5.Take back control and discover what his true intentions where.
6.Believe In YOURSELF
7.The meaning of STUPIDITY is to repeat the same behavior and expect a different outcome.
8. DONT BE TEMPTED TO TXT OR CALL HIM,IT WILL ONLY REAFFIRM TO HIM THAT YOU CANT LIVE WITH OUT HIM.
GET OUT AS SOON AS YOU CAN BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT LOOKING FOR AN EXIT FROM THEIR WIFE,THEY ARE ONLY LOOKING FOR AN ESCAPE.
I was luck to escape my awfull experience of only being involved with this assclown MM of 6months of my involement with him. Its been 3months since i DUMPED this scum bag,NO CONTACT and i have to say it gets better each day knowing I finally to control of my respect and love for myself.
TO ALL OF YOU WOMEN OUT THEIR WHO ARE JUST GETTING INVOLVED WITH A MM OR THINKING ABOUT IT. FOR GODS SAKE DONT…RUN AS FAST AS YOU CAN FROM THESE PLAYERS SMASH THEIR EGO AND DUMPED ONCE AND FOR ALL.
Hang in their ladies and DONT EVER ALOW ANOTHER ASSCLOWN MM INTO YOUR SOUL,CUZ YOU ARE JUST THEIR TEMPORAY ESCAPE.. GOD BLESS OF OF YOU
Sandy –
Excellent point on ESCAPE versus EXIT. Driving around in the sunshine today, I thought, when I was with the MM I held the power to destroy the lives of several people, including my own. There were many actions I could have taken–demanding he leave, dying a slow death by waiting, telling his wife. I am so glad I ended it.
I just finished Nat’s book and see I was an Unavailable, who picked an Unavailable. Anytime one of us would talk about leaving our spouses and having a future together, the other individual would draw back. How many times did he say, “I am here for the taking. Do you want me or not?” and I would answer not yet, I am not ready. Then of course, when I WAS ready, he offered ‘friendship’ and I went NC, where I have remained. So I can’t blame him for the roller-coaster. I helped build it.
My point is: even though we were each married and Unavailable, we did not walk away from this affair so breezily. Not everyone gets off Scot-free. The experience has left each of us haunted and conflicted.
Lo J
I see lots of stuff here I don’t agree with and I know some don’t agree with my viewpoints either. I don’t agree with all of teach’s stuff, nor even Natalie’s. We all have different experiences and they can all be contributions to helping others to recognize things about themselves through the sharing of our experiences.
I certainly understand triggers. Any mental health professional, or someone well schooled in PTSD would understand that too. It happens, but recognizing it is very important so that you can identify them, and learn to work with it.
I’ve been working with survivors of severe abuse from disordered people for two years. I’ve heard and seen some really WILD and crazy shit out of abusers, but I KNOW undoubtedly that none of the abuse is their fault. We don’t make an abuser abuse. He is what he is, but when we come to awareness about it and we know what it is, well…that’s where the work really begins. I’ve seen aware survivors move forward only to pick up another disordered one. Something wasn’t finished, a lesson wasn’t learned, but each of them KNEW, because they had AWARENESS what they were doing. Again, they weren’t responsible for the abusers actions, but they were for their involvement in totally blowing off red flag behavior.
Obviously,as children, we are not. And it’s tragic.
I hope you continue to move through your healing process.
K … abslutely agree