Assuming that A is all the things I believed I did right and that B is all the things I’ve decided in retrospect that I should have done, then obviously Z is the things that I identified as being the screw up’s that lead to the demise of the relationship.
If you’ve been through this thought process of pondering the coulda,woulda, shoulda’s of your relationship, you’ll recognise how mentally consuming and self-defeating it is.
It’s raking over your relationship and obsessing about it so that you can look for reasons to not only blame yourself but identify ‘solutions’.
While some of the ‘errors’ that you believe you made probably weren’t the most productive or healthy thing for a relationship, some of the things that you view as errors aren’t – you perceive them as wrongdoings because you don’t know your own values and boundaries or what a healthy relationship looks like.
This activity keeps you invested in the person and the idea of the relationship that you think you’ve robbed yourself of.
You then become stuck in blame and shame and either not liking yourself for making mistakes, or doing things to try to ‘correct’ them that you may later come to regret and even view as embarrassing.
Aside from putting the responsibility of loving myself squarely with me, one of the things that freed me and allowed me to finally let go and accept relationships that had gone awry, was accepting a fundamental truth:
If it didn’t work out, it didn’t work out for a reason and even if I went back and did the things that I know I did wrong correctly, the relationship still wouldn’t work out, because to take something I said or did or a quality or characteristic and make that squarely the reason for why the relationship didn’t work out, is to not only be unrealistic about the reasons, but to also ignore the contribution of the other party.
To take this further, sometimes, even when we recognise that actually, we weren’t the only person who made mistakes, we come up with this ‘radical’ notion that if we were to correct our mistakes, then they wouldn’t have erred either.
You then believe that if you change they’ll change – you’re forgetting that the only person you can control is you plus you’re hypothesising about something that has passed.
If you’re going to rake over your past mistakes, use them as a springboard to grow from, learn the lessons, and apply them to your present and your future.
The things that we tell ourselves are the mistakes often blind us to the truth. They’re the easy things to latch onto. Someone told me recently that her relationship ended because she wasn’t pretty enough, from the right family, and the new woman was more qualified at the same job. Of course she could try to change her looks, adopt a new family, and get more qualifications, but actually her relationship didn’t work out for other reasons.
When you run around believing that certain things you’ve said or done screwed up your relationship, you start to focus on the trees instead of the wood.
It’s not that it’s not important or valuable to understand what you can do to be a better person in a better relationship however, what you may be failing to realise is this:
There are always things you could have done differently but if your fantasy equation is based on the premise of a relationship that was flawed because you were incompatible, you had little or no boundaries, the relationship was borne out of deceit, it was full of code ambers and code red’s, the problem isn’t you trying to change some of the moves you made – the problem is the choice of person and misguidedly believing that the relationship you imagined is possible with them.
If the initial choice is unhealthy, you could literally put yourself through the machine of change and the relationship is still not going to work out.
When you don’t want to acknowledge and accept the reality of what you’ve been involved in and who you’ve been involved with, you’ll acknowledge enough to come to the conclusion that you did and said all of these things to screw it up but engage in more than enough denial to ensure that you don’t see the overall issues with the relationship.
When you acknowledge whether the choice in ‘co-pilot’ for your relationship was a healthy one (check out code amber’s and red’s), you can have your regret’s but you can also accept that it wasn’t all down to you why it didn’t work and that even if you had done all of these things, that it still wouldn’t have worked anyway.
If it was a healthy relationship, you both have your part to play in why it didn’t work out. It doesn’t all hinge on you.
You don’t have the power to make any relationship with anyone ‘right’. You do need to have good self-esteem, healthy love habits and apply them to appropriate people and relationships.
When we’re reluctant to accept or to get uncomfortable and make change, it’s easier to imagine fixing our mistakes in the old relationship. While sometimes this can work if you’re both fully aware of why it didn’t work out and both prepared to do the work, really the best place to apply the lessons learned is to now and to your next relationship. Until then you’re living in the past trying to turn back time and you’re another day away from loving you, acceptance, and getting on with enjoying your life in the present so you can enjoy your future.
Your thoughts?
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“… you can also accept that it wasn’t all down to you why it didn’t work and that even if you had done all of these things, that it still wouldn’t have worked anyway.” Can I hear a big DAMN RIGHT! Thank God! Thank God! Thank God! There is no doubt in my mind that no matter good, bad, different or otherwise I could have, should have or would have done or said – I would have gotten to the point where I would have wanted to smoother him with a pillow, couldn’t stand to watch him eat and be most annoyed that he breathed. No absolutely not the “one” for me. It would not have worked for ME! He might have been a happy camper but I would have given up to much, paid too high a price and settled for shit on a stick unable to give me my true hearts desire. Love me as I love me. Respect me as I respect myself. Trust me as I trust myself. Care for me as I care for myself. Be honest with me as I am honest with myself. To yourself be true as I am true to myself AND I will do the same for you.
@Movedup
haha, I actually could not stand to hear my ex breathe. Evil just evil of me 😉
I thought your response was brilliant…it got me to laughing so hard! “…be most annoyed that he breathed” You really hit it for me.
You got me to thinking about something else too…with your “happy camper” comment.
My AC said that I was “so amazing to him”. I was emotionally moved at the time but looking back now…it tells an entirely different story. He wasn’t lying…but he certainly wasn’t saying what I thought he was saying!! What he meant was that I was a f***ing door mat and didn’t expect anything better for myself or from him!!! Truly? If a man found a woman so amazing, he would fight heaven and earth to be with her…and now if he plans to look at me…he’s going to have to! Pfft
My AC said the same thing! At the time I felt it was such a compliment too. Now on a day where I am 2 weeks along with NC with this guy, I start to think “what if he read my last text the wrong way…maybe I hurt his feelings…yada yada”…but I come to this site, see posts from so many fabulous strong ladies, and I immediately squashed those thoughts. Instead, I focused on the fact that I wouldn’t be trying to interpret his texts or wonder how he interpreted mine if he had ever picked up the phone to communicate with me (even when I asked, he didn’t). THAT is what I focus on now : ) Thanks once again to Nat and all you lovely ladies!
Yeah dont you just love that comment about being truly amazing? My ex told me i had this aura about me that when i walked into a room everyone stared (i might add here because it was we were usually late lol), he thought i was beautiful and he was so lucky to have found me etc etc etc. Then he disappeared on me after a fantastic day out to the countryside, and then walked back into my life to tell me that he was sorry he had not let me know where he was and that anyway he had come back – as no one else would have put up with him!! Needless to say shortly after that little statement, i found out he had, in fact, cheated on me for over a year. And its true what i read somewhere about the one they cheated with, how we always think they must be more lovely looking, better dressed than ourselves etc. This one looked like she had been dragged through a hedge backwards, and needed a good wash and after i told him where he could go, made me feel like a million dollars. She is welcome to him, he used to stay at my house for 4 nights at a time and NEVER had a bath or shower!
Oh wow. This post really hit me.
“If you’re going to rake over your past mistakes, use them as a springboard to grow from, learn the lessons, and apply them to your present and your future.”
I am a big recapper. I like to look back over my mistakes. Yes, to learn from them. But, sometimes I sit around and mope. That isn’t healthy. Sometimes I just cringe at all the mistakes I’ve made and problems I’ve caused for myself.
Oh well. The past is the past. There really is nothing I can do to change it. I can’t stop myself from falling for a douchebag or a Mr. Unavailable two years ago. But, I can say that I learned from it and it is GREATLY affecting my future! Yes, it is!
Thanks!!!!!
~Zabrinah
I have been blaming myself for the past relationship because I thought that I looked to needy and that’s why he blowed cold. I keep thinking why didn’t I acted cool? Why did I looked vulnerable? I just couldn’t accept that he blowed cold, because he wanted to. No matter what I would have done, he wanted out and he did. Sometimes I become mad at myself for not being the way I think I should be or look the way I think I should and it just hurts me more.
My current bf is physically abusive, dishonest and I have begun to hate my life bc it revolves around a man with these characteristics. And I am unhappy 90% of the time. His needs come first and I don’t know who the hell I am anymore….or what I want. My goals have become just a memory. And then there’s his cheating…..and ALL that comes with that. Going thru his phone, email….and its all consuming not to mention exhausting. And it just makes me feel sad. And the competition with these whores who know about me but want him anyway. So, I guess if I was perfect, he would still be who he is. And after knowing all this, getting the strength to leave has been the hardest thing I’ve ever been faced with.
sianna
there’s light and strength and good things at the end of this tunnel. this crappy relationship does not define you and neither does he. i suggest you speak to a woman’s shelter or a counsellor (your gp can refer you) to get an escape plan together. do you live with him? if so, start shifting your stuff (without him noticing), mainly small sentimental things like photos. not the sofa! I took my things to the office.
speak to a trusted friend or family member, sound out a few people to see if there is somewhere you can run to in an emergency.
I’d bought a house with my physically abusive ex. Even though I hated him, just to shut him up! I was completely stuck but when I left, I did it in less than 24 hours because I feared for my life.
Once you’ve decided it will be surprisingly easy, it’s making the decision that’s so hard cos that’s the bit you have to do all by yourself.
All the best.
Wishing you lots of strength, Sianna. You seem to have the knowledge and clarity, and now need to act. It’s not going to feel 100% right or easy to leave, so please don’t wait for that benchmark before acting. Act first, and trust that when your confidence, perspective and self-esteem have restored, you’ll then feel super proud and grateful (of and towards yourself). You’re so caught up, it seems, in the daily grind and pain, that it’s no wonder leaving feels like an enormous task. But you’ll have such a better sense of things, not to mention a better life, when you do. You need faith.
Elle,
Act first, and trust that when your confidence, perspective and self-esteem have restored, you’ll then feel super proud and grateful (of and towards yourself).
I like this comment this is what happened to me I acted first and I am still waiting for my self-esteem to completely restore, it is there a bit, but not completely. This is why I dwell or have lingering issues.
Please start planning your exit from this relationship. Since he’s a physically abusive person don’t tell him what your doing. Do you have family or friends that you can turn to for help??? I am concerned for you. Please keep us up to date. I am sending you love and strength to get through this.
@Sianna
I hope I am not stepping out of line on this Natalie when I say this but what Sianna said grabbed me.
I’m not going to tell you to leave him. I can tell you what I’ve been witness to. For more than 20 years my mom had been so wrapped up in my dad. Trying to change him. He was/is an alcoholic/drug addict. He was physically, mentally and emotionally abusive toward her. I saw him pull her hair, threaten to shoot her and I know he gave her a concussion once. Of course, he had numerous affairs. Oh the lies. He’d lie right at your face. And he’d always manage to make it all my moms fault or someone else’s. All the while she’d still stay with him, chase after him and **gag** sleep with him. I can remember as a child being so angry and so confused that she would stay and be intimate with such AN ASSHOLE?! Made no sense.
I think it gets to the point that, really, you’re abusing yourself now. By subjecting yourself to it. Looks have nothing to do with it. Perfection has nothing to do with it. Look at the gorgeous celebrities whose husbands have affairs. You can be a troll and still get a great man. I believe this. I’ll get off the soapbox now. But I know from experience that nothing you can do is going to make a damn difference to this man unless HE wants to change. Obviously he sees no reason to. Why would he? He can do whatever he wants and have you stick around for all of it. I hope you can find a way to help yourself because living in that BS is a dead end.
Sienna,
What do you get from this relationship?
Get a game plan together and a safety plan. I can very much relate. I have had to run as well in less than 24 hours and hide. Believe me they don’t change – it only gets worse – much worse. Then he beat his second wife and went to jail for that one and battery treatment. After 26 years he is still the same shithead- he won’t raise a hand to woman again after getting beat down by Bubba in jail (bless his heart wherever he is) but he still is an emotionally abusive shit. I can tell you this – it is sooo much better walking on solid ground than egg shells. Prayers with you – you are not alone thou it may seem like that sometimes. Others have come before you and unfortuatenly others will follow but YOU is who you need to be concerned about right now. Take a deep breath and run – don’t look back. Get in touch with your local womans shelter – they can help you make a plan.
I am so guilty of doing this. My fiance ended our engagement after we got into a heated argument and I have done nothing but blame myself and carry the burden of this relationship on my shoulders for the past 8 months. During this time, he has entered a new relationship (with someone he had dated casually before we got together) and I’m a mess. I know his new relationship has nothing to do with the one we had, but it still hurts so much! The worst part of it all is that I think that all this negative thinking has become a comfort for me because I’m scared to move on. I never thought I would have to start over at this point in my life.
Please, be kind to yourself, and don’t blame yourself. you probably didn’t break up because of the argument, the argument was probably the culmination of many things and this was his way out. Consider yourself lucky to be rid of such a jerk, better now than to have been married to him ! You can definitely do better!
Sherry – I agree with Nevertoolate! Also, please don’t feel hurt over the new relationship. I have been the Fallback Girl (and I highly suspect that this woman is – at least from what it sounds like) and, trust me, she is in a worse position that you are. You’re free to get over this and find someone better…WAY better 🙂
@ Sherry,
I understand the pain of coulda woulda shoulda. Just over a year ago I was railroaded by an ending of a relationship with a “man” I *thought* I was in love with. First don’t beat yourself up, it took me 8-10 months to really start to turn the corner. A great therapist, additional support and hanging onto every word written on this website, were my staples as I trudged through the most painful year I think I have ever had. I also did alot of investing in myself, started two new amazing sports, hobbies, went back to school. I have to say, it *was* uncomfortable and alot of work but hard work *always* pays off. At about 11 months after the break up, I could tell I was ready to start dating again. I had a list of qualities I wanted in a partner, I was really grounded in it, and knew it would take courage and perhaps time and to just keep showing up to the vision of what I did want, and have faith that it was there for me, too. Just over three months ago, I met the most wonderful man I have ever been with. He actually fit all the qualities I was looking for. He is consistent! and consistently kind, even-keeled, generous, healthy and emotionally available, fun, and we are honest and compatible. It is peaceful and alot of fun. It is so true that you don’t know what a healthy relationship is until you’ve been in one and that you never, ever have to settle for less than being treated with kindness, love, respect. I would not have been ready for a relationship like this, even a year ago. I had the work to do. Today, because of that process, I would never be with the guy I was with a year ago. I have certainly moved past that, and can spot an unavailable guy from far away, and it is now a turn off, and I no longer make it about me. But I had to walk through this experience to learn that. Thanks to Natalie, the women who have posted here and the support I have gotten. Life is happy today and it’s not all because of the man in my life, though he has been such a beautiful gift, but so many little accomplishments and Yes’s! along the way of a painful year, of building a new life that I enjoy continuing to invest in. I just know that if you put one foot in front of the other, you can start to move…
Awesome post! I spent a fair chunk of time taking myself to town about apparent misdemeanours and missteps. But, as you say, Natalie, much of this behaviour is incidental with someone who, on a profound level, simply doesn’t want to be in a relationship – either because they’re lacking in self-esteem, lacking in integrity (and wants to play around) or because they don’t like themselves around you (for fair and unfair reasons). What made things easier for me is that I know that I tried all sorts of approaches – firmness, kindness, calm honesty, and, far less often, snippiness, mini-tantrums and moping. I ended up saying that I couldn’t ‘do’ the childish stuff and we needed to be able to talk properly about things. The fact is: NONE of the methods worked. He continued to avoid and stonewall, and criticise and shame me. I have been in a relationship with someone who I was not compatible with, but even within this relationship there was honesty and grace (though, towards the end, less mature elements).
Finally, in some BR positive news: 10 months post-AC, I am seeing someone. All going very slowly, and carefully. But none of the confusion and drama, just lots of getting on with enjoying each other’s company. Have had some old friends to deal with (my own anxieties and impulses), but essentially, it’s lovely. As predicated , he’s less charming as the AC, but there’s a reason the word ‘toxic’ sits in ‘intoxicating’! Most importantly, he’s kind, intelligent, a good communicator, fun, self-composed and a person of action. Very early days, but a nice thing after such a teeth-smacking 2010! Almost certainly a culmination of taking the boundaries and self-esteem content on this site seriously. xx
Yeah Elle!!
Another good one that really hit home! I have been known to go over situations/relationships thinking about every that I couldve shouldve did differently. You can literally drive yourself crazy doing that I swear I was 5 cats from crazy obsessing about one guy smh just to realize that its wasnt worth it. I had to realize that i dont have control over everything and im sitting here trying to control how he was feeling, and what he shouldve said said. Needless to say in order to keep my sanity i had to let it go replaying it over and over will get you stuck. Yes we do want to learn from our mistakes but like you said NML when need to apply it to our current and future situations. Stop playing the blame shame game it is definitely a waste of time. Thnx
My fiance also ended our engagement suddenly — after I went out for coffee with a girlfriend after he had told me not to. I begged him to take me back — he wouldn’t. He totally cut me off. I blamed myself for having “ruined” a “great relationship” for years. I look back now, and realize that the relationship was on its last legs anyway, whether I’d gone out that day or not. He was looking for an excuse — ANY excuse — to break it off. If it hadn’t been that, it would have been something else — I wore something he didn’t like, I left dirty dishes in the sink, he didn’t like my tone of voice.
There were too many red flags — he fast-forwarded the relationship, getting serious way too fast. He was jealous, and controlling — and he’d cheated on his first wife — multiple times, he admitted it. He swore it would be different with us…but would it have been? Everything had to be his way, or he wouldn’t speak to me for days. I had no boundaries in those days — probably wouldn’t even have understood the concept of boundaries.
He could be charming when he wanted to be — when it was good, it was magical. Good enough to make me forget the bad times. Looking back now, I think that his ending the relationship was a lucky break for me. If we’d married, I would have lived through hell….been cheated on, verbally abused, manipulated, controlled, possibly physically abused too.
I’m thinking now, that my insistence on meeting my friend for coffee, was actually a sign of health, refusing to be controlled…on some level, I’d just had enough, I wasn’t going to be pushed around anymore — he realized this, and knew that I wasn’t the woman for him.
When you obsess over the past, you’re living in fantasyland. Remember in Sliding Doors, when she makes the train and catches the sleazy b-f and breaks up with him – and then ends up DYING in the end? We think if we’d done things differently they would have turned out better, but for all we know, they could have been WORSE.
The past that COULDA BEEN is always perfect, as is the fantasy future. Only, we’re not living in some fantasy past or future, we’re living in the NOW.
We’re not perfect, we can’t control everything, and if we can’t have a healthy relationship with someone without being PERFECT, without always saying, doing, and behaving in the “right” way (whatever THAT is), then we can’t HAVE a healthy relationship, period, because we will never BE perfect. We need to figure out how to behave in mostly healthy ways, being the flawed creatures that we are.
NML Thank you for writing this. I have been beating myself up about this one guy and what I should or shouldn’t have done.
One of the times we spent together I had mixed my anxiety medicine with wine to disastrous results I blacked out and told him I loved him when in all really I didn’t. We had met recently me so after that he was distant towards me and in order to save face I tried to say I was cool with just seeing him once in a while to “have fun”. I realized this wasn’t going to work for me so I wrote him a dear john letter and wouldn’t you know it he was all up on my shit after that texting me how much he missed me and what not. I finally cut things off only to be soused a few days later and text him that I wanted to see him one last time just for a shag. Of course he was hesitant but agreed, then I had some stuff I was dealing with and he told me I just needed to be out of the house and that he would pick me up. Well he flaked on me at one of the worst times so at this point I was done with his crap. Then he texts me that he wants to make it up to me and blah blah blah. I give in and we have a great night and next morning sex and then I leave to do my thing and as far as I knew we were both cool. 2 days later I GET the dear john letter about how he can’t see me anymore because he just can’t handle getting into a relationship and blah blah blah.
Of course I cried and went into this dramatic hurt mode with voice mails and text messages. Only to have him apologize for being such an immature prick while continuing to reject me.
I’ve been beating myself up about if I hadn’t blacked out that night maybe things would have been better. The reality is he was divorcing, with kids, not the best job in the world AND he doesn’t read books unless it’s a travel book! Reading your post just made me realized I dodged a huge bullet and I should just move on and not mix medication with booze next time among other things. Thx!
“There are always things you could have done differently but if your fantasy equation is based on the premise of a relationship that was flawed because you were incompatible, you had little or no boundaries, the relationship was borne out of deceit, it was full of code ambers and code red’s, the problem isn’t you trying to change some of the moves you made – the problem is the choice of person and misguidedly believing that the relationship you imagined is possible with them.”
This part especially resonates with me deeply. Great article. So true. I am living proof of the above. When your relationship has bad “bones” there isn’t anything humanly possible that can make it right. Nothing.
Thanks Nat.
I can’t get over playing the blame game with myself. Only I don’t play it in my head as if to say “If only I would have done x then we would have worked.” It’s more like” “If only I would have done x then I could have left and spared myself the horrible relationship that I allowed to carry on for as long as it did.” I SHOULD have left when he did this, I COULD have left when he did that. He ended it, on his terms – which is a bit of a blessing because who knows how long I would have kept up that ungodly sham of a relationship – and now it’s over 7 months later and I still have pangs of self-guilt and forehead slapping moments that hurt a bit.
I still have a lot of anger towards this guy and I’m just wondering how much time does this crap take to really heal up? I’m going on 7 months now. The crying is over, the constant thinking of him is over….when is it OVER, OVER?
Boo.
Yes yes yes to this one. I took most if not all the blame and beat my head against the wall with the things I did. I would completely overlook or lessen what they did because it did not seem to be anywhere near as bad as what I thought I did wrong.
Now I see my longest relationship started out as a lie. Hell, I was not attracted to him at all. Shallow as it sounds. First time he kissed me I literally had to do everything NOT to have a gag reflex. Then I spent several years with this person lying to myself that I wanted to be there when I could hardly stand being next to him. The hard truth is I was there for the perks, the fun we had together, the things we did, his endless attention, etc. We were more like best friends than lovers. And he had his own dysfunction and lies which added to the madness. It keeps becoming clearer. I’d have sex with my first boyfriend as a teenager because I was afraid if I didn’t he might rape me or something else. I did not know what a healthy relationship looked like so I took whatever came my way.
Right now I am taking small steps to better myself and that involves simply being open and smiling at people. And to friggin accept myself with ALL, I mean ALL…..EVERY BIT OF IT, the ugliness. Because a boyfriend won’t fix this.
For me, most of the day is spent going about my day but there are trigger moments like making a mistake at work or one of my friends blowing me off that trigger all these emotions of inadequacy in me that just spiral out of control. It can go from making a simple mistake at work to blaming myself for him leaving because I’m not good enough. This is mostly when I think about all my “mistakes” and how it would have been “different”.
I’ve been reading some about self esteem and the “inner critic”. When I start to think that I’m not good enough I try to calm down enough to rationally talk to myself and figure out what I’m feeling and why. I know for me, sometimes the reason I get into the “blame” mode is because I’m avoiding my fears and feelings. I don’t want to admit that I’m scared to move on, I’m scared I won’t find someone, I’m scared to look at myself too closely. That the reason I feel this way is because of my lack of self esteem. It’s easier to focus on something you can’t control instead of actually doing something about the things you can control. By writing down my fears and then rationally looking at each one I am able to give them less power over me. So, yes I’m scared to move on but what is the alternative, to stay miserable and pining over someone for the rest of my life? That sounds like a pretty pathetic waste of a life. Yes, it’s scary but the alternative isn’t an option. I tend to feel much better after I get everything out and look at it. I try to tell myself that it’s ok to feel these things, you didn’t become this way overnight and it’s not going to all go away overnight either. I struggle with it a lot and while sometimes I’m better at it than others but I finally feel like I’m on a good beginning track to quieting the negative voices in my head and generating new accurate loving beliefs about myself.
Thank you for this, Natalie! I have been replaying scenes from our relationship over and over in my mind and thinking: I should have been less vulnerable, I should have had higher self-esteem…and then maybe he would have wanted a relationship with me. I’ve been beating myself up, wondering- did I overreact when I finally told him to stop contacting me? Does he think I’m just some crazy girl who flipped out? What I keep trying to remember is that it takes two to make a relationship work…and what I need to add to that is I can’t control what he thinks of me.
It really helps to know that I’m not alone in how I’m feeling and that someone else has gone through this process. I appreciate your words so much!
Same as that, i have totally been replaying and replaying stuff with him in my head for months… finally getting better. But just like you I have thought if I’d stuck up for myself more, actually said more sensible stuff and had more self esteem, then maybe he might have wanted me more. But I just think in reality it would have just meant leaving sooner!!
“There are always things you could have done differently but if your fantasy equation is based on the premise of a relationship that was flawed because you were incompatible, you had little or no boundaries, the relationship was borne out of deceit, it was full of code ambers and code red’s, the problem isn’t you trying to change some of the moves you made – the problem is the choice of person and misguidedly believing that the relationship you imagined is possible with them.”
No truer words where spoken. Your absolutely right, at some point you’ve got to stop living in denial and come to the conclusion that the person who you have choosen is the problem and to stop believing that the relationship that you IMAGINED is possible with THEM. Thank you NML for saying this, it really hits home with me it explains it perfectly.
Wonderful post, Natalie. We were SO incompatible, plus he fed me a line of b.s. that I believed yet were lies he told to paint a picture of himself. I fell for it, and today we were divorced. The next time around I won’t ignore my code reds!!
Natalie,
All of a sudden you are changing your tone. Where you used to be the advocate of a rather relentless self-survey (rightly so) you now seem to be advocating the old wisdom “where two fight, two are to blame”. I point you to one of your best-ever blogs, being ‘Having An Honest Conversation with Yourself for Better Relationships’. Can I ask: how did this change come about ? Thank you.
I haven’t changed at all Peter. Fact is, thinking about what you could’ve done differently for a relationship that is fundamentally flawed *anyway* is denial. It’s also not about fighting – it’s about going through an extended thought process that traps you in inaction and puts the other person on a pedestal or assumes that what you will do they’ll do. I have people mailing me telling me that they’ve been thinking about this stuff for months to *years*. I’m basically saying that thinking about what you could have done differently if you’re going to do things differently now is good. Living in the past and trying to work out which moves you should have made and what those moves might have done to the other person is clinging to a dead relationship. Whatever self reflection is being done is unproductive and actually recognising the reality of the relationship is part of having the honest conversation with yourself.
Nat
yep- for over 20 -30 flippin years i’ve stewed about two significant past relationships and what i did wrong. i did actually make some genuine mistakes but in the first instance i was just too young and screwed up and in the other he came back 20 years to later to try to have an affair despite his wife and child. so i guess he was never a good candidate.
yes, self-reflection is a good thing but regretting something for 20 years is a waste of time. while i’m all for some self-examination let’s not put ourselves in the centre of the universe and assume that we’ve got the magic wand to turn every crappy situation into gold. especially when such situation is in the past.
Excellent post!! This really speaks to why it becomes so hard at times to move on, especially if you are motivated to make the relationship work.
In my relationship with my ex boyfriend, after breaking up once and getting back together, at his urging, I addressed my issues and made a concerted effort to communicate through our conflicts in an emotionally healthy manner. Consistently, as each conflict came up, I looked at my patterns of communication and expressed myself non-defensively.
This quelled some of our conflicts, but he continued to be covertly aggressive and undermine me in very subtle ways, which I would address each time it happened. I was accused by him of “getting into a mood” every two weeks which he said caused him to “walk on eggshells”.
Finally I had enough, the same conflicts continued to arise, despite my improvement in communication. When I decided to have a discussion with him and face the conflicts head on, he said to me, “Yes, I notice how since we have gotten back together, you have been “behaving yourself”. That did it for me. I realized that I was making a geniune effort to make fundamental changes to the way I had been communicating and all he could see was that I was “behaving myself”. It was a condescending and dismissive comment that spoke to his true shallow nature. I ended the relationship that night. I told him that he did not possess the values and character I admired and to continue to have him in my life would be to turn my back on myself, which I was not prepared to do.
He said, “relationships take work and not everyone is compatible , that’s just what we have to accept”. I said, ” that’s not what I have to accept”.
Natalie- A brilliant and powerful post. I have been thinking about this a lot lately. When I first came out of the relationship with the AC, I blamed him for everything. It was all his damage, his issues, his problems. Then, I went too far the other way – it was all my fault, all my baggage, all my “stuff”. Now, I am trying to use what happened to grow, learn and change me only. I have learned the lesson that I cannot and should not try and change him, something I wasted a lot of time and energy trying to do. The goal should never be trying for any kind of future or resurrection of that relationship, which is dead, buried and very much gone, thank god. I am simply trying to look at it in an honest and realistic light, something I admit I did not do during the relationship. I don’t think all looking back is bad (and I don’t think you imply that in your post). I do think overanalyzing for the purpose of trying to save or retroactively fix a relationship is counterproductive. For me, the only value in looking back now is to recognize my patterns, see how my behaviour and beliefs are keeping me from having the life I want and to acknowledge and own what is my contribution. I can’t change anything if I don’t first recognize its problem.
It wasn’t all him. It wasn’t all me. To just say that is too facile and I had fallen into that trap in the past. To analyze the crap out of it is equally pointless. I am trying to find the balance now of mining the lessons out of the past, without getting stuck in it.
I don’t know if anyone has posted a situation like mine before but here goes: I was with my BF of 6 years when I started liking another guy. We were living together and I treated him so horribly for a year because I was just thinking about getting the other guy. My BF tried so hard to win me back but I just didn’t care anymore. He finally broke it off with me and we had pretty minor contact for ~8 months. After some time, I realized I did truly love him, so I asked if we could try to work things out. He said yes, that he still loved me, but wanted to take things slow as he was really busy with work. We would only see each other on Saturdays and he would just text me once during the week. When we did see each other, it was just like old times – great sex, cuddling and declarations of love. I thought he was just tired that’s why he couldn’t call me during the week. I soon found out (from his parents!) that he had been seeing someone else the whole time. How I found out was he said he couldn’t see me on our usual Saturday because he had to work. I went over there to see if he really was, and of course, he was not. I asked his parents about it and they said he was with the girl and they rented a house for 10 days. We had just been together hours before he picked her up at the airport! (The girl does not live in the same state.) He lied over and over again – about loving me, about wanting to work things out, and about being in a relationship with someone else. When I found out, I changed my phone number and have tried to move on (it’s been a week) but can’t get the thought of him being this way after all that we had been through out of my mind. I am so hurt and angry, but I know I deserve it for the way I treated him. I really do love him, apologized and admitted what I did was wrong. He continued to bring up what I had done to him as the cause of his actions (I had already caught him lying about seeing the girl once but he said it was coz he didn’t know how serious I was about getting back together.) Please help. I am plagued with guilt and remorse and just want to show him how much I love him.
heartbroken
why would a girl who loves her boyfriend cheat on him and be mean to him for a whole year? there’s no indication of why you did that in your post and it’s a puzzler. even if you didn’t physically have sex with the other person your feelings for him certainly intruded into your relationship.
you don’t believe he loves you cos he has another woman. so you have to understand that he may not believe you love him cos you had another man. to be honest, reading your post, I’M having trouble believe you do love each other. six years is a long time and maybe it’s more hurt, loss and regret that you’re feeling than love.
i think this ship has sailed. when you cheat don’t expect to be able to fix the relationship. some people claim they have, i’m sceptical but in this case – it’s definitely not working. it’s such a fundamental breach of trust that both men and women very often can’t get past it. even the cheater may not get past it cos somewhere, deep inside, they look down on their partner for taking them back. that’s how contrary people are.
maybe show how much you love him by walking away and let the two of you rebuild your lives, separately.
one day you could both have a relationship where neither of you cheated, or ran off with other people, or lied. but it’s going to have to be with someone else.
let me add that i speak as someone who has cheated and been cheated on. i would never do it again. at least you can learn from this.
thank you, grace. i need to take a long hard look at myself and our relationship and realize that it was not working for me. i was selfish and cruel, yes. i should have handled things differently, but i was unhappy. maybe coz i was young and immature, maybe coz i was a horrible person period. i don’t know. i will leave him alone. i will never hurt anybody that way again. i have lessons to learn and i need to start it now.
@Grace when you said “I’M having trouble believe you do love each other. six years is a long time and maybe it’s more hurt, loss and regret that you’re feeling than love.” It really struck a chord with me and it’s an excellant point. Yes, we can get confused over the feelings we are having and not really understand what lies underneath them. I was cheated on long ago by a man that I was in a long term relationship with I stayed with him, it wasn’t because of love but because I didn’t want to loose all the time and energy I had already invested in this person. It hurt my already shaky self esteem and increased my insecurity. Instead of understanding that my partner was the one with the problem, I blamed myself for his cheating on me, that I had done something wrong and also started thinking that there must be something “wrong” with me to cause his behavior. Luckily, I figured out that no it wasn’t my fault that he CHOSE to cheat and in fact there was something wrong within him. I didn’t realize that at the time though. Also the feelings that I thought were love that I had then where actually feelings of regret, and saddness that the happy ending I had hoped for wasn’t to be. I remember one time shortly after I had moved out I went back to get the rest of my stuff and we sat on the couch holding each other and we both shed some tears and i thought at the time that I still love him and he still loves me that’s why we are crying and even then thought that maybe there was still a chance, we could “work it out” and get back together But actually it was tears of the greiving process. For a long time before I left when i would try and talk to him and tell him that if we didn’t get help I was going to leave, I was hoping he would “come to his senses” and realize what a great thing he was going to loose. I was still kidding myself at that point. I had to let go of wanting to “win”. And came to my senses that what was there to “win” ??? and that my thinking was way off track in that regard. I finally accepted that there was no future for the relationsip and I left him. That fact (that there was something wrong with HIM) was confirmed when a few years later he contacted me while he…
Let it go Heartbroken, its a sad state of affairs (no pun intended). Unfortunately the old addage is true “What goes around, comes around”. Sadly I think he’s was just trying to get back at you and the red flag was he could only see you on Saturdays. I feel for you girl but let it go, work on yourself so when you do find someone again and you will you’ll hopefully have learned a valuable lesson.
hi maryc,
i know i deserve it, yes. i just wanted to make things right coz i realized i really did a horrible thing. i just don’t know how he can start his new relationship that way – screwing his ex-GF on the side. it’s sick. i never slept with the other guy and him at the same time. not that that makes me better, i just wish he turned his pain and anger into being a better person, not this poor excuse for a man.
heartbroken….I can’t imagine that what happened suddenly changed him in to this other person who would cheat on his new GF, it just doesn’t make any sense. Maybe you didn’t really know him but now you do.
maryc and grace,
just need one more piece of advice. it was a good idea for me to change my phone number and cut contact, right? i mean, i don’t need to explain to him what i’m doing as he has not even explained anything to me about being with the other girl and disappearing. just need to know what you guys think. thanks.
Great post!! For me, learning to look at things realistically (rather than go into “woe is me, it’s all my fault” mode) was a really important step. I didn’t trust my own judgement at all, which obviously a great way to end up in crappy relationships. Now that I’m learning to look at things as they are, I feel like I’m making real strides (for once) towards trusting myself. Thank you to you, Natalie, and all of the ladies on this site for your excellent advice. I didn’t think I’d ever be able to fix how I felt about myself and the awful relationships I ended up in. For making me see that I could, I am eternally grateful 🙂
Great post as always, Nat!
I did a lot of self reflection after the relationship with my last boyfriend ended. And I realised I did a lot of things that were not so clever in order to have a good relationship.
But I can clearly see now: If I had did it different from the begining it would indeed be different! The “relationship” would have ended much earlier. It lasted so long because I crossed my own boundaries, and that is not good!
So to think I should have done so and so, is good for nothing. I did what I did, but I learned from it, and I want to do it different from now on. In a new kind of relationship, thats it!
(Sorry for my broken English. I really enjoy this site, and I am so glad I stumbled over it a couple of years ago. I have learned so much about myself and about relationships)
A relationship needs both people to start from a healthy position. You both have to be ready, available, happy in yourselves. You have to want a relationship for reasons that will stack up over time – not cos you’re lonely, want sex, need the attention, getting too old, someone happened to be interested, or for a laugh/enterntainment. And that’s something to work on BEFORE you’re in a relationship cos trying to backtrack when you’re in it is pretty much impossible. And trying so sort HIM out as well -ha, no chance.
So it’s not about whether you should have made that call, got cross cos he forgot your birthday, never said anything about his other women. It’s about the fact that a) you probably weren’t ready for proper relationship so chose a waste of time candidate and b) he’s a waste of time.
I guess there are instances where we do make fatal errors but even then you can’t rake over the past.
He is not the last man on earth. It’s not the last chance saloon. Take what we’ve learned into the future. The past – it’s gone.
When you’re in a relationship where one person makes you believe that you are constantly in the wrong and it’s you that needs to change you start to believe that it IS you that needs to change to fix the relationship.
Your self esteem gets shattered and you are taught through the actions of another to take the blame.
In this situation you take on the responsibility of being the fixer of the relationship – thus ensuring that the other person achieves their goal of diminished responsibility (because they truly believe that their shit doesn’t stink) In turn we become enablers of a persons behaviour and that’s what we have to take responsibility for.
Seems twisted doesn’t it? But that’s the essence of being involved with a Narc/AC/MM/MW or plain basic arsehole.
True release is accepting this and moving on from it.
I used to be that girl I mention above. I’m no longer than girl any more.
Flush! Next 🙂
I had this mindset for a while, feeling ashamed and foolish. Then I realized my unhealthy self attracted the same, no matter what I did or said wouldn’t make a toad into a prince. He was unavailable and so was I. We were both catering to our own insaniety and fears. The solution is to focus on me, get healthy and attract the same.
I LOVE your articles. In one way and another, they all apply to me. I’ve been there or still am there. Especially this article about couldas. For a year and half, all i’ve been doing is blaming myself. Even though i know getting with that guy was my biggest mistake. I was in 100% but he wasn’t even in 10%. I got mistreated and i put up with a lot of crap knowing that i had a lot to offer and he had nothing to offer me. I came from a place of very low self esteem, even though i’m pretty, well educated, and have a great job, family and a set of friends. But i can’t seem to get my self esteem up.
Very recently, i just started dating again. But i kind of keep doing the same thing. If i go on a date once or twice and i like the guy but if i don’t hear back from him, i can sit for weeks and come up with things that i should have done different. And then i blame myself and get mad at myself. Its a vicious cycle.
But your articles help and i hope to get to a point where i have good self esteem and great confidence and maybe then i’ll finally meet someone that i’ll be happy with.
Sianna, two words – LEAVE HIM! I can say this because I just got divorced after 20 years of marriage. Don’t wait 20 years to make your move. I can promise you this from experience – he is not going to change – ever! It took me YEARS to finally understand that one person cannot change another – we can only change ourselves. We don’t need to change our whole selves as these men would have us believe – we just need to change the part of ourselves who will accept such treatment. Yes, it will be hard, but the longer you wait the harder it will be. Each day of our lives is precious. So, make your plans and then make your move asap. It will be hard at first, but eventually you’ll get your life back and you’ll be glad you did. Thoughts and prayers are with you. From, been there and done that in TN.
I was at a great party last night where there were lots of friendly, creative, interesting people. With my gradually-getting-better self-esteem, I smiled a lot, introduced myself a lot, to men and women, and had a number of wonderful conversations. I even met someone whom, I think, if I were living here, I would have liked to go on a date with (not an option because I live in another country), and felt pretty solid that we both were visibly surprised at how much we liked talking to each other.
But I also met a couple, no, three pure duds. The one guy said something so ridiculous that I simply turned my back and walked away.
[Old me: What is it about me that attracted them? New me: This guy is a dud.]
I realize now that I ‘shoulda’ done that with my ex. As in, walked away at the first sign of disrespect. For what it’s worth, last night I turned my back in front of a group of four or five other men and NONE of them reacted as if I had been rude. They had witnessed everything. In fact, I just mentally said FLUSH! to the ignorant git, so I didn’t even bother saying to the others later: did you see what he just did? Did you hear what he just said? And I felt so wonderful and empowered from simply enforcing my boundary and continuing to enjoy myself with the other decent fellows.
[Old me would have engaged with biting humour or feminist indignation and gotten myself further INTO a conversation.]
Makes me realize that ALL the coulda woulda shouldas that happened in my last poor relationship wouldn’t even have happened had I kept to the one ‘shoulda’ that remains important for me in the future:
The conversation stops at the first sign of disrespect. I am not that Florence Nightengale, “let me explain to you why you shouldn’t say that” woman anymore!
Magnolia, what a wonderful post and it sounds like you are doing great. Good for you. It is encouraging to see that there is light at the end of the tunnel and that there are decent folks out there, although I’m not ready to go out there yet. Your description of the “old you” vs. the “new you” is perfect and very helpful. I was the “old you” too and would have spent the evening with the duds trying to convince them that they were duds. Then I probably would have gone out with them! Flush is the answer. I’ll be following your lead and walking at the first sign of disrespect. No more shoulda, coulda, wouldas. I know what I shoulda done to avoid the past involvement wtith the ex.
hi runner
It’s so nice to have this space where I can share my little victories and feel like there are those who’ve been there and done it, those in the same place, and those who might get inspired by my success stories as I am by Natalie’s and many of the other women here. Thanks for responding and being there on the learning-to-love-ourselves track!
Magnolia
So good to hear this, truly inspirational, I love that your/this approach to their crap by just walking away, we can apply to anyone that is demonstrating an attitude we’d rather not have in our lives… anymore!
Also what you say about Florence Nightingale, I have also had the approach of naively assuming that the man doesnt know any better and thats why he’s behaving that way and I can teach him a better way… Almost laughable now, they know exactly what they’re doing and the last thing they deserve is our love and care when they’ve not shown us the same.
This post has stayed with me and has triggered some new thoughts. First, I think I now see the difference between paralysis (denial) and introspection. Denial is the obsessive reanalysis of a relationship, which I have done. Trying to figure out what went wrong, often with the goal of fixing it, either in this relationship or the next. If I am interpretting the post correctly, we both agree that this is a waste of time. Introspection, on the other hand, is self-analysis. What can I acknowledge and try and change about me that is keeping me from the life I want? This is a good thing, I think.
The second thought is the importance of compartmentalization in all this. One of the best lessons the AC taught me (inadvertently, of course) is that who you are in romantic relationships is who you are in life. He honestly believed that he could be a complete assclown – abusive, disrespectful, hurtful, lacking empathy – with the women in his life but that he was a great friend, colleague, family member. What a crock! If you are disrespectful, dishonest or insensitive in one area of your life, you are those things throughout your life. I now see that I had shared that belief myself. I thought my problems were restricted to my disfunctional love life. I now see that my lack of self love has impacted my work, my family, my friendships. The lesson I tried to teach the AC about integrity was one I needed to learn myself. Who am I when no one else is looking? In countless ways, big and small, am I treating others with respect and care? I now see I wasn’t. I was dishonest in the relationship and got dishonesty back. But I am also not always honest in all my interactions.
My biggest fear in all this self-analysis was I kept seeing ways in which my behaviour seemed like the assclown, which would make me an assclown and I now humbly admit I have behaved that way in the past. I have not always cared about how others felt, I have been selfish and dishonest, and I have been controlling and manipulative. The difference, I sincerely hope, is that I am willing to do the work to stop it. I am holding myself accountable and looking at who I am and who I want to be at my core and trying to live like that…
Wow. I’m new (going through a break up with a total EUM-suprise) Not quite ready to offer insights as im still processing what really happened…as if it was one thing. So just wanted to thank everyone for their insights. I am truly learning from you all. Thank you. ALL!
When we’re reluctant to accept or to get uncomfortable and make change, it’s easier to imagine fixing our mistakes in the old relationship. While sometimes this can work if you’re both fully aware of why it didn’t work out and both prepared to do the work, really the best place to apply the lessons learned is to now and to your next relationship. Until then you’re living in the past trying to turn back time and you’re another day away from loving you, acceptance, and getting on with enjoying your life in the present so you can enjoy your future.
I am unsure of what “getting uncomfortable” means?
Right now I am hanging out with a different group of friends than my previous and I feel “uncomfortable” at times. Recently through one of my old guy friends I met his girlfriend who encouraged me to go back to school so I can achieve my career choice in the future. She is a encouraging person unlike some of my other friends who I have known for years that are more focussed on their lives. I don’t have a girlfriend to pal around lately to get out there and meet guys like I would like to. I have a group of friends, and my other friends that are too into themselves but it is not the same as having a single girlfriend to go out and do things with so I am getting out there.
I am doing what this post is saying however I am countering it with bouce back answers. For example, before I read this post I was thinking about this very subject. I was saying to myself in my head, that if I had higher credentials, maybe he would have thought I am a better catch. Or maybe if I was hotter in his eyes whatever that means because I can’t tell what my ex likes in a girl because all the girls he thinks are hot, range from very different looks. If I was willing to put up with all the bull, I would not be sitting here alone asking myself am I going to be alone for the rest of my life? Was this the last guy that will popped into my life from nowhere.
Seriously everyone says you can’t meet someone sitting on your couch never going anywhere or getting out there. Well I am here to say yes you can. I was litteraly sitting on my couch and he called to invite me to his vacation spot a few years back, by the lake and the rest is history
MH
Are you still in contact with the guy? While we all progress at our own pace I can assure you from my sorry experience that maintaining contact = no pace at all. not even snail’s pace. we can allow ourselves one episode of suck it and see, maybe two for the chronic cases but more than that and it’s not NC, it’s contact and getting uncomfortable would be cutting him off. If you HAVE cut him off, then you need to cut him off in your mind.
Hotness has nothing to do with it. Is there a girl in the whole land how is prettier, richer, more succesful, more popular (with men, women and children) than cheryl cole? And she STILL wasn’t enough for her husband. Hell, if you had been less hot maybe this twit wouldn’t have bothered in the first place. That’s certainly how I feel about my ex who chased me down cos I was the prettiest girl in the office and then continued to flirt with all the other pretty girls in the world. Cos there’s no shortage of pretty girls!
It’s very uncomfortable to stop thinking about them cos it’s the last connection but at some point we have to. If it’s been months you need to be a bit hard on yourself and see if you can force it. I would go even further and say that trawling through the backstory of the relationship for “lessons” has its limits. At some point, you realise you are an entity completely separate from that person and are perfectly capable and already have the qualities you need to strike out and live your life fully. He was just deadweight.
Maybe the uncomfortable thing for you is to realise he now has NOTHING to do with you. It’s not nice, I’ve been there but once you’re out the other side it’s better, way better than the best it was when you were with him or when you were friends (allegedly, forgive me but this guy is really getting on my ****!).
Hi Grace,
No my post wasn’t about him, it was about trying to understand what being uncomfortable means outside of these EU’s and AC’s.
I keep hearing the statement and I assume it means now that were focussed on our singlehood that is why I mentioned that I am hanging out with a different type of friends.
Why I mentioned the other comments is because it related to the post and the thoughts that I relate to in this phase of my transition. I sometimes think that way but that is far and few between unlike how it was in the beginning. So I see the improvement but I wanted to know more about the term getting uncomfortable in terms of meeting a better caliber of men.
MH
I think we have to start by becoming someone who is capable of having a proper relationship and wants one. For me, I would have to be a lot of things that I haven’t been in previous relationships – completely over the ex, no hangers on, authentic, committed, vulnerable, honest, open, sharing, able to deal with conflict and risk, optimistic, hopeful. It’s a lack of opportunity but, mainly fear of the unknown and yes it’s uncomfortable for me even to think about it!
Grace,
Thank you!
Now the term getting uncomfortable makes a little more sense.
This is what I have been doing lately with hanging with different friends and yes it is uncomfortable.
As well the new leaf I have turned over is no longer hanging on to feelings of new guys that aren’t showing interest. I walk away instead of hanging onto little clues and comptemplating if the guy likes me.
The old stuff does creep in from time to time, and I just call myself on it more quickly. This is why I mention my thoughts when a post relates to something that comes up for me.
I think for myself I knew this guy had issues so I never truly put myself out there because I knew it wouldn’t go anywhere. My unavailableness led me to guys I knew it wouldn’t go anywhere. I was hiding out, but I knew I was doing this because I wasn’t ready for a real relationship. Spending time in close quarters with someone got me interested in wanting to delve into the relationship world again. So some good came out of this fling. Now I am working on this uncomfortable thing because my desire to find a life partner outweighs my desire to be single. Other people let themselves go with guys they know aren’t going to go there but they have nothing to lose because they don’t really want a relationship.
I have a ways to go and I think for awhile I am going to relate to posts or atleast certain posts are bring past or present issues to the surface. I am not worried because I know how I felt in the beginning to how I feel and even friends have commented on the improvement that I have noticed too.
Brilliant post Nat!
When things ended with the ex EUM i did all the self blame etc. Especially when he dumped me (two weeks after winning me back by making a huge play for me). There were all the self loathing questions: why didn’t he want me? Why aren’t i good enough? Why didn’t he change for me? It took a long time and a lot of self-reflection to get past that and realise that HE was the problem. I was completely myself, i was good to him, i was faithful, i never pressured him. I should have had better boundaries and not tolerated as much of his nonsense as i did and, when i realised THAT was the thing i shoud have done differently, that was when i really started moving forwards.
A good relationship is not one where you never argue or make mistakes; a good relationship is one where you DO argue, you DO mess up, but you can always talk about it and sort it out afterwards. No one should have to walk on eggshells, or compromise their values, or be manipulated and controlled in any way.
Coming out of my EUM relationship, all i wanted was someone to love me for who i am. That means warts and all: when i’m having a bad day, when i say something stupid, when i’m ill and grumpy. And i will do the same in return. People should be allowed to have flaws. If a relationship’s success is based on one of you being completely perfect, while the other comes and goes as they please, that is a relationship that will never, ever work!
Natalie, yesterday I recommended Baggage Reclaim to a friend of mine who is going through a hard time. Although her situation/guy is very different from mine, I felt capable of offering her some advice based on what I learned from you. But I also sent her the link to the site, for “further study”! As for myself, I believe I wouldn’t have felt as grounded and objective as I feel now, if it hadn’t been for your articles! Thank you sooooooo much! 😉
I concur. From reading and absorbing these articles, I’ve actually been able to offer some solid advice to a friend who’s been having some man troubles. Nat, thanks for such helpful, resourceful site!
Thanks to everyone who responded to my post. I’ve been in this situation for a very long time and have not been able to get out. For many reasons. @ Allison. I don’t know what to say to you regarding why I stay. I do love him and not everything or everyday is bad. I am scared to start over bc I don’t know what that future holds. And I do hope for him to change…as he says he wants to. Plus, there’s going to be someone RIGHT THERE to take my place the second I leave. And continuing to be the one he chooses as his gf above all others, even tho he’s dishonest and unfaithful….is something hard to let go of.
Sianna alot of us are scared to start over, that’s why I stayed as the fall back girl for 18months. I degraded myself and let myself be used for sex bc I was scard to start over. Trust me starting over isn’t the worse thing you can do, its the best thing.
Sianna
Don’t get hung up on being his”girlfriend”. You have a very low opinion of what a girlfriend is. A girlfriend is not someone you hit, cheat on and lie to. I would call that a victim of domestic abuse. Of course there will be someone right there to take your place – your place of being badly treated. He doesn’t care about you, he just needs someone in that place. All those other women are lined up as backup for the day that you finally leave.
There is better for you. My counsellor summed it up. He said “maybe you could meet someone who doesn’t want to take advantage of you, but will give to you”. My jaw nearly hit the ground. What a concept! But frankly even a life of singledom is better than what you’ve got.
Sianna,
What is it that you love? Do you have children, and do they witness the abuse and disrespect?
You mention that not everyday is bad, but why does any day have to bad? You say you want him to change, but this is who he is. It is never fair to expect someone to change in a relationship, he will not change. I think you really need to address why you choose to stay in such a harmful envoronment because I know that deep down, you know he will never stop cheating or abusing.
We have to recognize that others do not fulfill and validate, we must do it for ourselves.
Sianna,
Here’s how the person who takes your place will soon feel –
“I have begun to hate my life… I am unhappy 90% of the time. I don’t know who the hell I am anymore….or what I want. My goals have become just a memory. And it just makes me feel sad.”
You however, once you get away, will start to feel joyful again and your optimism will return. This relationship is depressing you. Get out now.
Have enjoyed reading your work over the past few days on the emotionally unavailable man. It strikes me that such a man ( or woman) requires a codependent partner and enabler to flourish and I was wondering if you could write about this dynamic. You have such insight I think your take on this would be helpful to women who get involved with these men. It is no accident that they do.
Yes Laine, I’m interested in that dynamic as well. The last EUM I was with was a serial cheater that needed to have a steady girlfriend (he was even involved with someone for 6 yrs.).
@heartbroken….You did the right thing and neither one of you owe each other anything. At this point I don’t think there would be anything worth saying on either side anyway. And explaining what you’re doing is looking for validation something Nat talks about quite alot, search for one of her posts on the subject. As usual she makes alot of sense.
Good luck, keep your head up.
wow….you guys are amazing. this website has helped me so much and natalie’s posts have saved my sanity many times. please don’t feel like all your comments will go in one ear, out the other. i have taken it all in. it has taken me a long time to realize what i’m actually involved in here. but i do feel stronger than i ever have. and so SICK of being mistreated. i’ve waited for a long time for him to change. but it’s been 5 yrs now, and my life with him is exactly the same. ‘hope’ is having less and less power over my thinking. thanks so much.
I just want to tell you that I recently stopped ruminating (a word so appropriate) about what I did wrong in my past encounter with a guy and I stopped blaming myself and I stopped expecting him to come to his senses (or to return and apologise). It’s so liberating. I have so much time now, I can do so many things, I feel so much better about myself, I can laugh again and I suddenly have a huge amount of energy. It feels like a heavy weight has been lifted from my back and as if a dark veil has been lifted from my eyes. I never imagined that thinking over the past takes such a toll on my energy level and the time. I’m so glad, I can’t quite describe it.
Thank you Natalie. This is the ideal post for me and one i can keep referring to for support. It is with your blog and 1 very patient and kind friend, that I have pretty much got to the point now where my thoughts are more balanced. He or our past relationship doesnt consume the majority of my thoughts, this is real tangiable progression for me and I did at one point wander whether reading here was keeping me locked into that world. But no, it has most definitely helped me move on and although there are good and bad days, the ratio is getting much better, thanks to your logical words of wisdom Thank you NML
@ allison…..no we have no children together. But I thank you for your comment bc everything you say is true. The bottom line is….. when I find the self love and strength needed to leave, I will. And I pray for it everyday.
Woulda Coulda Shoulda….. Guilty as charged. Gonna have to re-read this a few times so it can sink in.
Sometimes I think I’ve come so far. Then I happen upon something like this (no one’s fault but mine) and I’m reminded that I still have a long way to go. Sigh.
My break up has only been 3 weeks but I think the biggest lesson I can learn from this post is to stop blaming myself with the “If I only didn’t do that” or “If I never went to his house that night then maybe”. By reading this post I now realize that he really was just looking for a way out and it had nothing to do with how I think the relationship actually ended by one night of events. The bottom line is that we would never work. He was too unemotionally unavailable and I kept trying to pry my way inside. I shouldn’t have to pry my way into a man’s heart, the person I am suppose to be with should be 100% willing to open the door to his heart to let me in. This post and all the comments have helped me tremendously.
Oh, sigh, sigh, sigh. I’ve been spending many days I’ll never get back raking over my if, buts and maybes. I think I can tick almost every box – failed at NC, met up with him, spoke to him for hours, sympathetic, kind, understanding, gullible, moronic and desperate. I can’t be bothered to go into all of it but, in a nutshell:
Met up with the man that dumped me in the street. Listened to him tell me all manner of things that made me think ‘Oh! Perhaps we’ll be together again soon!’. Fast-forward a month: he phones me at 10.30pm very drunk, rants on about stuff that has nothing to do with me. He’d been drinking on the street. I, bizarrely, listen. We arrange to meet; he cancels. We rearrange; he cancels. Tells me that he’s a nice person and doesn’t want to have to listen to me bring him up on stuff. I say ok, and then I say ‘actually, f**k you’. Not something I’m proud of, it just came out – a reaction to all the other stuff, I’m guessing. I phone to apologise – no answer. I try again – no answer. That was nearly 2 weeks ago. I am struggling to get past this bit of it all. I want to forget it but I don’t like bad vibes. How pathetic. I’m 36.
shyner
this is going to sound pathetic but …. he started it. Don’t worry about the “bad vibes”. He’s just miffed that you caught him out. He’s only interested, I’m sure, in “nice girls” who will put up with his crap and vanity. You can’t please everyone.
I seriously doubt he’s lying around in bed crying “shyner, shyner really hurt me, I can’t live without her”. i expect he’s just doing what he always does – mucking someone else about until she tells him to eff off too.
Hey Grace,
Thanks for taking the time to write. Yeah, of course, you’re right to say I shouldn’t be bothered about the bad vibes. To be honest, this is the way it was always going to turn out – I only wish I had said what I said as I was standing on a street corner at midnight. This was a man who told me he loved me, wanted kids with me, that we were ‘made’, holiday next year etc. I met his son, his sister – we all hung out numerous times. But he was never interested in me and how I was feeling. I tried to finish it a couple of times and he would charm me into submission. He just didn’t want to be the one to be dumped; he was really horrible to me, actually! There were numerous amber and red signs – textbook stuff, really. What a waste of my time. No more! And if you’re in something like this, too – get out. I’ve just wasted 2 months of my life post-breakup listening to his drivel and driving myself a bit mad. I’m in my last semester at uni. and it has been noticed by lecturers that I haven’t been myself; I missed loads of lectures. Don’t let crap like this impact on the rest of your life.
hello,
this is my first time posting, but I have been reading and trying to find where I am at in my breakup phase. It is a phase, I know it is because I have not been crying, instead I keep thinking about what I did wrong. What I could have done to change the outcome. Three weeks ago by “boyfriend” / text message sex man (we were together for about 5 months) shocked me and out of the blue broke up with me, in doing that he crushed my plans. It was a SHOCK. I’m almost positive that I was in shock because I was cold for 2 days, did not eat for 4 days, questioned myself what I did and where I had gone wrong and I also questioned his decision afterwards. At the time I didn’t really have anything to say. But after sitting with the break up and having so many questions left unknown I wanted to talk to him. So I called him, told him I needed to talk and I had questions and he agreed. I wrote down all my questions, thinking that this was my chance to understand. These are my questions I asked and I’ll also post the answers he gave… (they were not too helpful)
– what changed and when ?; I don’t know I’d been thinking about it for a week.
-why change a good thing?; I just don’t feel what I think I should at this point in the relationship and I really don’t think I will ( he told me when he broke up with me that he could probably keep going out with me for a few more months but that his feelings would not change)
– was this going to happen even if it didn’t happen yesterday? yes
-on Tuesday I saw you and you wanted me to come over, and on Wednesday when we went out for dinner , and Thursday you broke up with me, what changed? I don’t know … (lame)
– do you feel like you know me? yes your kind of an open book (that pissed me off )
-am I unattractive to you? NO!
-what has been your longest relationship ever been? a year and a half and she broke up with me, and I’m still paying for the truck that she is driving.
-did I miss the signals that this was coming to an end? No, I didn’t really give you any, I just get like this, I have been thinking for about a week and I just don’t feel like I think I should feel.
-how do you think you should feel? I should feel something, and…
I really don’t know where else to go to for help, so any advice would really be helpful.
Basically, I started talking to this guy and he kept pursuing me to hang out in the worst way (calling last minute, late at night, etc.) I denied him for awhile because I thought he just wanted to hookup and I told him I do not want anything like that. He said he didn’t either and got better about trying to hang out (calling earlier, attempting to make some plan, etc) I decided to give him a chance and the benefit of the doubt. So we started seeing each other shortly after and things were quite good, then he got a full time job as well as going to school full time so basically he was really busy from that point on. If we saw each other once a week that was lucky. In between we would talk pretty much every day. But things got really annoying when he really wasn’t making an effort or any plan to see me always blaming it on him being so busy. Everything was always last minute and on his terms. I put my foot down and we decided to stop seeing each other since it wasn’t fair to me. He ended up calling me a few days later to apologize, tell me that he missed me, whatever…things basically went back to being the same way
Then things got weird again after I tried asking where this was going, he said he would call me later to talk and never did, so after many failed attempts on my part to contact him I gave up. A month later he pops up to apologize again, tell me he was going through some stuff and needed the time alone. We maybe saw each other twice after that and I finally had enough when he wouldn’t call when he said he would, make any effort whatsoever. I told him that I’m not a convenience for him when he was available, I’m not an option like that and everything is done on his terms and I was tired of it. He never replied to me when I sent that through text because I knew if I called him he would tell me he had to go because he was “busy.”
Basically, I want to know if I said and did the right thing. I know this person is an assclown as well as emotionally unavailable and I don’t want to be with him anymore, but why wouldn’t he even reply to me? Is he just going to pop up out of nowhere again and try to hit the reset button with me?
Blair, He fits the Mr Unavailable description to a tee…doesn’t want to commit and doesn’t want to let go…a very unsatisfying dynamic. He needs to sort his life out. You are right to cross him out as he doesn’t meet your needs. And yes, he’ll probably make a repeat performance as long as you let him.
Blair, I also ended things with texting and almost 2 months later received a call (the m/c answered; no message; just a number on the id)…I knew when I sent the text that he might try to reset by saying he’d never received the text. Your guy could do that too.
Blair,
I like that you had that boundary in place in the beginning, when he was calling late/last minute. It’s hard to say whether or not it’s a good idea to give a guy the benefit of the doubt, because it’s hard to know if the guy is really just THAT clueless about dating and being respectful, or if he has not-so-good intentions. Because even some AC’s will bend and flex for a woman in the beginning, and even say what she wants to hear. But the change in behavior usually doesn’t last, as is the case with your guy.
But now that you have given him time and more than one chance, he is showing you who he is. And as for you having to wonder if you said and did the right thing, well, it sounds like you know what is right for you, but now you are questioning yourself because of his silence. Don’t let his actions make you second-guess what is best for you. In fact, I would go so far as to say his actions actually CONFIRM that you made the right choice.
You yourself said you thought he was EU and an AC, then wondered why he didn’t reply to you. You answered your own question right there.
Will he pop up again? Very possibly, as he’s done it before. I’m glad you are using the between time to arm yourself, so that, hopefully, next time he pops up, you will be the one with no reply, not because you are like him, but because you are a woman who wants a healthy relationship with mutual respect and communication, and you no longer want to engage in his mind games.
Yeah, you’re both right. I don’t want anything to do with him anymore. I know his actions have nothing to do with me, so now I’m just working on myself to get to a good happy place. I’m okay for the most part, it’s just more annoying than anything. It’s easy to feel rejected here even though I dealt out the final rejection.
Blair, I think that no matter who initiates the ending that an ending hurts when you care. To mourn it is normal and part of the process of grieving. You can still care for someone but care enough about you to keep them out of your life when you find it isn’t what you signed up for.
Leisha,
You’re right again…it just hurts to think they may not care enough. Thanks for your words of wisdom, I really appreciate it.
Hey Blair, At least you know you are emotionally available and are feeling the natural consequences of being disappointed with things not working out. And you are most welcome. I want you to know you will be okay and this is just another trip on the highway of life…
Yeah, the person I have dealt with basically tried telling me he never knew what he wanted, but also decided to fit in there that he didn’t like how I barely spoke to his friends when we all got together one time out of our whole “relationship.” I guess he thinks interaction was solely my responsibility and the fact that his own friends barely spoke to me or him for that matter, it was “my fault.”
I told him this wasn’t so and could only muster a “sorry things ended this way,” “I’d be lying if I said I knew what I wanted,” “things have been tough for me lately,” and “I like you…sort of.”
Yeah okay…he’s deflecting his part in all this. The fact that during our whole “relationship” we would only see each other when it was good for him due to his busy schedule and all the uncertainty in between those times, not to mention the few times he decided to drop off the face of the earth for reasons unknown.
At first I tried to be understanding and went along with his ways, but realized this guy only cares about himself and he always will be this way, no matter what I did or didn’t do he would be this way. I didn’t do anything wrong except let it go on for as long as it did.