When we arrived at her bar, she began dancing on the bar, drinking more, etc. He would not come inside, sending his friend to tell me he was sorry, etc.
After a few hours of this, he did come inside, and, to my horror, I witnessed my friend dancing/laying on the bar in front of him, while he sat, apart from everyone at the bar. I didn’t say or do anything, her friends separated them, and I didn’t say much the rest of the night, much less the next day, or the trip home. I asked them both if they were attracted to each other, and they both said no. But I am having a very hard time letting this go and forgiving, much less forgetting. I am currently not speaking to my ex, and I haven’t spoken to my friend in over a year as well. I have deep fears that they are in fact, together, that I should have said or done something, or that I could have stopped this by acting differently. I am trying to let this go, and I don’t know how to treat my friend. I am very confused and still very hurt by this.
Can you help with some advice? “
There are 2 core things that you need to drill into your head from this moment onwards:
1) When it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and acts like a duck, it is a duck. Don’t be afraid to accept your gut reaction or what you process with your judgement skills. Stop doubting yourself.
2) Stop assuming the blame for what is quite despicable behaviour on both of their parts. You can’t stop the irrational, the uncontrollable, the bad behaviour of a narcissist, or the attention seeking behaviour of a predator friend.
Whilst I appreciate that it would not be nice to discover that they are together, what can you do? With two personalities like theirs, they kinda deserve each other.
Let’s remember some key things here that you should use as a reminder of how lucky you are to have made an escape:
1) This guy is emotionally unavailable AND a narcissist – sweet Jesus you don’t know how lucky you are to be shot of him! No matter what you do or say, if he is a narcissist and ignorant to his poor behaviour, there isn’t a damn thing you can do to change him or the highly likely outcome of the demise of your relationship. These narcissists are a hop, skip, and a jump from crackerjack central and the best thing you can do is run for cover. Switchy at the best of times – attentive and adoring one moment, aggressive, arrogant, and out of control the next.
2) Didn’t you just want to get the hell out of there when these two dipsticks started arguing like two 7 year olds in the playground? This was aggressive, sexual tension! A total and utter disrespect on the parts of BOTH people!
3) Who the frick dances on bars and does a ‘private performance’ for their friends boyfriend? She sounds out of control! She certainly doesn’t sound like someone who you need as a friend because with friends like that to take you down, how on earth can you rely on her or trust others?
Aside from these factors, the main issues that concern me here is that you don’t feel prepared to trust you, your gut, your intuition, and basically your judgement. Why ask them if they’re attracted to each other? They both said ‘no’ when it was quite obvious that something strange was going on between the two of them and at the end of the day, you couldn’t let it go and you’re not speaking to them. Why? – Because at the end of the day, no matter what comes out of their mouthes, you know what you saw, you certainly shouldn’t forget it, and if anything, it should serve as very strong evidence that neither party should be in your life.
If they are together, there is nothing you can do and it is further evidence that you are well shot of the pair of them. The reason why this bothers you is because aside from their actions being incredibly hurtful and disrespectful, you’re still at a point where you are blaming yourself and thinking that you could have intervened and changed the outcome. It’s a bit like, two against one, so it must be you that’s at fault. You haven’t accepted what happened because you don’t want to. But you’d better because it’s happened, it’s not going to change, and it is, what it is.
The only person that you can control is you. I suspect that when dealing with a narcissist and a disrespectful friend that regardless of what you do or say, they’re gonna do what suits them anyway. Don’t think for one second that your feelings are of any importance to either one of them, especially with him, who by his very nature believes that he is the centre of the universe….
You didn’t create their behaviour – you enabled it and that’s different. You should be asking yourself why you want to be with a narcissist. You should be asking yourself why you want this friend back. You should be more concerned with why you want to allow people to mistreat and disrespect AND take the blame for it too!
You have to let go of trying to find some comfortable place with the situation so that you can either get with him or your friend. The person you need to forgive…is YOU.
The best thing you could do is stop refusing to accept the situation and their poor behaviour and characters, feel your hurt, feel your anger, forgive you and recognise that you didn’t create their behaviour. Deal with your own issues about why you want this guy and put some closure on the situation. We choose men that reflect negative things we believe about ourselves and if you want to be with a narcissist and were deeply in love with him in spite of his behaviour, that in itself shows that you have self-esteem issues and poor love habits to resolve because being with a narcissist is an abusive relationship. Oh it might feel like the most amazing time on earth when they’re having a great day, but there is more bad and low days with people like this.
If you haven’t got over it after a year, it’s because it’s unresolved, but the fact that it has a dragged on for a year is too much.
You have to let go of him, her, your unresolved feelings, face things, and move on. Unfortunately…they are already getting on with their selfish lies whilst you’re still stuck at 365 days ago. Let go and don’t ever blame yourself for other people’s disrespect and instead focus on ensuring that you don’t place yourself in the firing line of disrespect by being around people that diminish you.
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A EUM that I dated in college got together with who I thought was my best friend. They had been close friends for the latter half of my dating him (we dated a year and a half) and I later found out that there was an overlap between when he and I broke up and when they got together.
I was as devastated as I’m sure you are, but I stopped speaking to both of them and managed to move on. It was quite tough to do as by that time the three of us had many mutual friends and she was my roommate (I kicked her out of the apartment) and sorority sister (she lost so many friends as a result of her actions towards me that she ended up leaving the sorority, too).
Now (8 years later) I am “friends” with him on myspace though we have not exchanged any substantial communication. About a year ago I exchanged a couple of long e-mails with her that provided closure somewhat, although we haven’t spoken since and I cannot imagine us ever being friends.
I guess what I am saying is that I have been there and know how tough it is, but believe me (and NML) you are better off without them and they are more replaceable than you might think. Once you shed them, then you will have more free time to spend on people and relationships that are worth it.
NML – “Switchy at the best of times – attentive and adoring one moment, aggressive, arrogant, and out of control the next”. That describes my EUM to the “T”! Keep these posts coming! I’m healing more & more every day! There were so many times I was going to bail. Early on I said “You aren’t ready for a realtionship & this is not what I want so I am puling out of this”. HE FREAKED & sucked me back in with the ‘hot”. I SO regret not following that gut of mine that has never led me astray! If I could give anyone here anything from this experience it is DONT DOUBT THOSE FEELINGS! THEY ARE HAPPENING FOR A REASON! I felt things that before that 1st meeting that weren’t right & could have spared myself the grief that I almost let destroy me AND spared my dignity! He was good though! I give him that! I fought him off for months then gave in! Oh well – he is still emailing as I can’t block him but I have not responded. Have no desire to be a “comfort” to him any more! 🙂
Angela, the choice is reasonably simple. You can accept that you don’t care that someone you might be intimate with is exposing you second-hand to whatever social disease he might bump into, that he is sharing his (limited) attention span with someone else.
Or, you can decide you want a mate, someone to build a family with. And set your sights on a guy with character, someone that would make a good co-parent. A man. And leave the schmuck with the easy lines that pride themselves on their sexual performance and ability to ‘get’ women to someone else.
You cannot have it both ways. This guy is not respecting you or himself, and that seldom changes for the better. Your friend? In her work at the bar she picked up some bad habits. She seems to be focused on immediate gratification, and doesn’t (yet) think about anything longer-termed than her tip jar. Whether she is at fault or not is irrelevant. I wouldn’t hold any blame against her. I also wouldn’t trust her to act like a responsible adult in the future.
Keep your attention focused on your guy, and the fundamental reasons that he is or is not good for you. Suspicion of cheating is a terrible thing. When there is no cheating, the accusation may never be cleared up, and remain a permanent taint on everyone.
You can decide, not to forgive him, but to accept that he is who he is – and that you want to keep him with you. Forgiving means that he is contrite, he regrets his mistake, and intends to correct his behavior, and also that you trust his resolve. Forgiving for a mistake is a relatively easy issue – you either accept his apology or you don’t. The real issue here is whether you now decide you need someone with stronger character.
There is a lot of reference to alcohol in your story. I have found that people with a drinking problem cannot tell the truth. This is different than lying, lying has a point, something that a person wants to accomplish. An alcoholic seems to utter untruths without cause.
You might also consider another ‘rule’ – don’t talk to anyone in a bar that you didn’t arrive with. Just like gossip, nothing good can come of it.
How do you forgive what happened under the influence? Simple. Accept that whatever happened, happened. I would hold off for an apology, if I could trust it, and I don’t think I would continue associating with the guy on and intimate basis. If you wish to continue with the values and lifestyle you held when you met your best friend, then I would apologize to her for accusing her unfairly.
Or you could deliberately choose to improve your character, and focus on honesty, honor, respect, and discipline when you choose who you will spend time with.
NML is exactly right.
Now, first off, booze and asshats don’t mix. And he and she are definitely asshats.
They both disrespected you so badly that of course you are angry a year later, I would be too. Seriously, I would.
But, if you were to get an apology, knowing what you know of them, could you trust it? Would it be enough?
And most importantly, do you REALLY want to know if they are together?
I had a friend do something similar to me, I caught her saying to my then bf ‘I know you want me, but you can’t have me’ then press herself up to him and smile.
He smiled back and didn’t move. (she had a bf at the time too!)
(oh and another time, she actually SAT ON MY BF’s LAP! of course I was told ‘it was nothing, I was overreacting…pffft)
I just about killed the two of them on the spot. Seriously.
I was furious, caused a scene that to this day has me never returning to that bar.
Ever.
Was it worth it to yell and freak out? At the time, hell ya. Now, no.
She was a fair weather friend at best,
And well, he proved himself totally unworthy.
I never got an apology, only excuses.
I say, write them a nasty ass letter. Don’t post it.
But get out all the anger cause that is what is really holding you back.
Let yourself be mad, AT THEM, but please don’t blame yourself.
And please don’t feel insecure in the slightest because they did this to you.
It really isn’t you, it’s them.
They are weak, and more insecure than any of us.
Sorry, this kind of stuff hits a nerve with me (obviously).
But, I have learned that people have their weaknesses, and some you can live with, some you have to live without.
This is a live without situation, you are much much better off.
(ps if they are together, I wonder exactly how much real trust they have together given their meeting up scenario…what goes around comes around and it makes for really bad relationship karma…)
xoxo
Cheekie, about “I wonder exactly how much real trust they have” – unfortunately, many people don’t consider whether or not to trust someone. They just mosey along, and get surprised time after time.
Glad you are trying to let go of some of the anger. Anger is hot, heavy, and interferes with joy.
You’re right Brad, but that’s the funny thing about trust.
Some people assume it, some people think it must be earned, and some people blindly sally forth.
I am realising, as I get older, that trust HAS to be there from the get go. Innocent till proven guilty. Any relationship that starts off in mistrust or suspicious behaviour/feelings is probably doomed. It’s one of those weird human things, if you trust, chances are the other person will trust you back and/or at least respect you enough to not mess you about.
This of course does not mean you should ‘blindly’ believe everything, you should stand back and rationally think about it. Your gut will always tell you.
Trust, honesty and respect are the keystones to any good healthy relationship.
And in this instance, none were present. And unfortunately, they are the three things that most ‘relationships’ are lacking, which causes most of our grief.
There is nothing a woman hates more than not knowing what is going on.
It’s just the way we are built. Which is the reason why lack of communication can lead us to believe all kinds of things. When a little honesty would solve so many problems.
Anger isn’t healthy, it eats you up inside.
It has to be dealt with, but only the angry person can let it go, just like any other unhealthy habit.
Amen NML! As you know, my ex was a narcissist and from experience I can tell you that these are the worst kinds of assclowns! You described my ex to a T. On a good day things were fabulous, but on a bad one I just wanted to crawl into a hole somewhere. They will abuse you and destroy what little self esteem you have and then blame you when things go wrong.
This poor girl is lucky to have escaped from him! Once she can move on and begin to fall in love with herself, she will see that.
This is an example of having low self-esteem, lack of self-love, and gravitating toward people that treat you badly because you think that’s what you deserve. This includes FRIENDS. If this so called “friend” was truly her friend, she would have NEVER conducted herself that way and hurt her. She was and is not a friend. And as far as the guy is concerned–total assclown, EUM, man-boy, and she shouldn’t give him another thought. We all need to surround ourselves with positive, caring, respectful people–not these kind of people!
Honey – Well with that kind of loss on her hands, I hope that she’ll think twice before she pulls that stunt again. That was so out of order! The great thing about your situation is that there are social consequences to mistreating people.
Kim – Amen! He is an imbecile anyway. You have to always remember with these people that they barely even recognise the difference between right and wrong…unless they feel injusticed. Your feelings don’t come into it!
Brad K – Yes acceptance is exactly what is needed here. Not accepting their behaviour and OKing it but accepting that it happened and not denying her feelings.
Cheekie – You crack me up but you are right about the letter – get it off your chest. Negative emotions pent up inside do you no good!
Brad K – Sorry I giggled – are you saying Cheekie is angry? 😉
Cheekie – Well if we start out in relationships distrusting, it’s a dodgy road travelled anyway. Focus on choosing decent partners, trust from outset, deduct trust as appropriate and confront red flags. That’s all we can do – apply judgement.
Lisa Q – Hehe. And it’s funny how so many focus on the good days but it’s because they think it’s an indicator of great things to come. I like that “fall in love with yourself”
FinallyOverIt – Amen, amen, amen! Where you find one dodgy guy, there will definitely be some dodgy friendships!
This advice is just great. I really appreciate it-I’m slowly healing, now that this is out in the open! The different perspectives are definately shedding new light on the situation and I am not so quick to be assuming all of the blame anymore! Basically, feel alot better every day I look at this post!
Yay Angela!!!
Angela, “not so quick to be assuming all of the blame’ – I don’t know if I should feel outraged that you think two people misbehaving means you did something wrong, or pity you for being abused has you have been.
I am *sure* that feeling any blame is a mistake.
You might want to look for a grief counselor or a life coach. Someone that has a good background, that can check into the people involved, and give you (brutally) honest guidance can be a big help. Changing how you look at people and at yourself is a big step.
And let me echo cheekie, “Yay Angela!!!”
Brad,
I said “feeling blame” because there were many extraneous events that led up to this type of situation, mainly my enabling their abusive tendencies as well as our collective substance abuse. I myself am guilty of these same tendencies, its just my conscience is much more sensitive than theirs!
I’ve known them both for many years, and this was not the first indication of this type of behavior-basically I knew it was coming every day I spent with him, and every time I “partied” with her. I accept blame for putting myself in that kind of situation, and your words regarding looking at people and myself differently definately rings so truly. I really need to do that, I guess I always have!
I’m just scared of what I will find/realize/discover. Self-esteem is hard to actualize for yourself when you’re an adult.
I’ll take you up on that counseling note, though!!!
Thanks
Angela, best wishes all around.
Habits, chemical dependence, the people you now feel drawn to and the people you now avoid, besides getting to know yourself all over again, and looking for a responsible, dependable, joyful mate – You are looking at some major changes in your life. I hope it all works for the best, and you appreciate the gains very soon.
Is it ever ok to become friends with her again? what if she claims that now, she has no clue as to why i haven’t contacted her/won’t accept contact from her since this has happened? what if I told her she’s hurt my feelings, that things are not the same between us, our friendship is different, and now i have my life to live and I am not willing to delve into the past? what if i’m feeling like i don’t want to go through the past and rekindle my emotions-what if i’m still feeling betrayed by this girl who was once my “friend”? should i explain all of this to her-is it another betrayal of friendship-two wrongs making a right-if I choose not to react to her?
Angela, for my part I think yu have to decide the rest of your life. You know she is deceitful, and vain, and dishonorable.
Do you want to spend the rest of your life, calling such people ‘friends’? Acquaintance, or someone you know, sure. But give her your trust, your respect, as you do with a friend, and you are giving her forgiveness – permission, to do what she did, and permission to do it again.
If you don’t want the people around you to hurt and manipulate you, you pretty much have to choose to spend your time with people that don’t hurt and manipulate people.
Blessed be.
Angela,
You only have to forgive yourself for having a blind spot for disrespectful people. She doesn’t need your forgiveness as Brad says, it will only give her permission to do it again. Three strikes is an out. If you want to re-connect then you are looking to invite drama back into your life. Thats all she has to give you. Choose people to invite into your life who you have checked and have the same value system as you. And know that your cutting her off is a sign of self respect, you are ok!
Peace
De
Ok, I guess I don’t feel so bad about this now. She made me feel bad already, claiming she had “no clue” as to why my feelings are hurt. And that I must illuminate her…soooo, just gonna let it go, move on, grow from this. Thanks for all this great advice- I know its a few months after I wrote this post. Still, its great to get all this feedback after all this time. Lets me know I should not doubt my instincts! That my feelings are valid! Its a great feeling!
I’m in the same situation – with my bf and treacherous flatmate. I’ve asked him to leave, I reckon now he has another source of narcissistic supply he’ll go quietly and I hope she follows!! I see it as a good way to kill two birds with one stone.
Let them get on with it and thank God for a lucky escape.