Yesterday in part one, I talked about the tricky issue of being too picky, not picky enough, or perceived as being picky when you are reluctant to be involved with people who detract from you, where others are OK with it. Ultimately, the truth is, only you know how picky you’re being and as you may have already learned, you can only live by your own values, not others, as they are personal to you. When people question what you’re doing, they’re talking about stuff from the perspective of their values.
Some of the worst culprits for this are mothers and I’ll cover this in a whole other post as it deserves a post or several of its own! My own mother used to ask me if I had met someone every time we spoke and had advised me not to look gift horses in the mouth of assclowns with money… Other red handed culprits are other members of your family who think your relationship status is something to be pitied even if their own house isn’t in order. You might even be victim to ‘smug marrieds’ who think they ‘know it all’ and what all of these people forget is that you all value different things.
When you don’t act in line with the values that you hold, you end up being disconnected from your actions and involved with dubious people in dubious relationships, or find yourself wondering why you seem to be incompatible with someone who feels so ‘right’.
This is why it’s important to have an honest conversation with yourself and ensure that you are being authentic and living a life that is congruent with your values – not only will you recognise when you are or aren’t being picky, but you’ll also either be around people who share similar values or will recognise when they don’t and understand the significance of it.
When it comes to being picky, that veering between being too picky and not picky enough is caused by valuing the wrong things, and/or mixing up primary and secondary values.
Primary (core) values are fixed for long periods of time and tied to your beliefs and only really shift when other aspects of your life change. For example, as we mature, we may not value the same things that we did, for instance, in our twenties, and if we do, we may find ourselves at odds with someone who has moved past that stage of their life, both mentally and in age. Primary values are tied to your belief system and work in tandem with your boundaries.
Everything else is secondary values and this is the variable stuff like more superficial stuff such as appearance, as well as tastes, hobbies, interests, some personality traits and qualities.
If you don’t share common primary values with someone, no matter how many secondary values you share, it doesn’t matter. The latter only take on value and importance when the former are in existence.
So in terms of being picky, it means you’ve either got some skewed ideas about your primary values…or your secondary values are being treated like primary values.
In the first case, it can mean that you might be someone who makes the values of security, money, and sexuality/intimacy as a priority over other things. This could mean that because you tie security and money closely together, if someone doesn’t have a lot of money, no matter how many other values you share, you are likely to kill of the relationship. They could act with love, care, trust, and respect but it won’t matter a damn if you value money so much that if they don’t have what you think they should, you feel insecure and undermine the relationship.
With mixed up values, you mistakenly believe that because the person possesses the secondary values that it will correlate to the primary values – they often don’t.
The secondary values that you share with someone give a limited amount of information about their primary values and should not be relied upon for drawing conclusions about what to expect from someone. The fact that you both like football, means you both like football. The fact that they have blonde hair, blue eyes, and are tall and like football and the fact that this is the look you like and you share that interest, means nothing about their primary values – nothing.
I’ve mentioned relationship insanity many times on this blog – it’s repeating the same types of behaviours, picking or looking for same guy, different package, carrying the same baggage, beliefs, values, and the whole kit and kaboodle, and then expecting different results. Then you wonder why it doesn’t work out…and then try again.
While we are all creatures of habit, it doesn’t work very well with dating and relationship habits that yield not so great partners and relationships or that have you undervaluing great opportunities for a relationship and overvaluing insubstantial opportunities for a relationship.
There’s no point in feeling horny and attracted to someone who’s an assclown that can’t give you the relationship you profess to want.
If you want a relationship, if you want change, if you want things to be better, you are in charge of this. It’s not them; it’s you. Don’t leave it up to the randomness of hoping that just one of the same types of people and situation that you choose will throw you out a different result because it’s a mighty big gamble that is unlikely to pay off. Don’t kid yourself about any pickiness you may have.
When you’re commitment-resistant and dealing with issues around emotional unavailability, you’ll find ways to undermine your possibilities of actually having a committed, emotionally available relationship – being picky will filter out healthier prospects and being not so picky, but picky enough to recognise that they’re someone that reflects your outlook, means that you’ll filter in people who offer the least likely prospect of having a committed relationship giving you the self-fulfilling prophecy.
When you don’t like or love yourself and look for others to validate you, you’ll choose people that reflect the negative things you feel about yourself and then try get them to value and validate you in a way that you don’t value or validate yourself, and then feel bewildered when you don’t. In this instance, you’ll likely opt for the waifs and strays of the dating pool. On the rare occasion that you find yourself involved with a healthy, ‘normal’ man, you’ll feel suspicious and pick faults with him even though in unhealthy relationships, you’ll refuse to see the person as they are, often blowing smoke up their bums and putting them on a pedestal they don’t deserve.
If you have a relationship pattern that involves you being involved with assclowns and Mr Unavailables or where you are habitually single but wanting a relationship, I suggest that you abandon any ideas that you have about compatibility, type, and common interests, and get wise about values, boundaries, and being involved with people that don’t throw out a litany of red flags. Make sure that whatever you are being picky about, that it helps you to act upon judgements you are making about people and the situations that you are in. Work out what you believe and why, so that you are walking around with healthy beliefs instead of negative ones that you act upon, using them to be picky about the wrong stuff or not having any quality control.
If you’re going to be picky, be picky about the stuff that makes a fundamental difference to how well you are treated in the relationship and how compatible you will both be – that’s primary values and boundaries.
Anything else, like looks, rigid age requirements, the size of their bank account, how many gifts they buy you, how many of the same interests you share, the books they read, how many sparks shoot out of you when you’re in touching distance, and yada, yada, yada – knock it off ‘the list’, especially if you are asking them to be or do things that you are not being and doing yourself. Same for expecting them to create feelings in you that you can’t even feel for you.
Anything on your list that has the hallmarks of you looking for a fairy tale or romcom ending or where the person has to practically revolutionise the wheel in order to be with you by going through the hands of change, knock it off. That means that if you’re choosing partners based on their willingness to change into the man you want – knock it off. If you’ve believed that your contribution to relationships has been wonderful and your qualities are great, even though you have a dubious relationship history, get real with yourself because these ideas will affect your choices, whether it’s because you hold onto dubious partners, or fail to see great guys right in front of you.
Are you being too picky? Really, only you know and time will tell, but keep your feet in reality, not just about your partners and relationships but also about yourself. At least then, you know that you’re closer to the truth.
Your thoughts?
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When you veer from your basic cores values in order to have someone in your life you’re setting yourself up for failure. Resentment starts to build, you start questioning yourself and then there are doubts and that’s just in your own head not to mention the things he’s doing to drive you crazy.
I know so many women including myself who sold themselves a bill of goods in order to have a guy in our life. Turning a blind eye doesn’t change who you/he/she is and the reasons for your own unhappiness.
You are so right NML when you said …”have an honest conversation with yourself and ensure that you are being authentic and living a life that is congruent with your values”.
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Loving these post! Very deep and insightful. I just have a question. Lets say 2 people who genuinely feel the secondary values (looks, money, etc) are actually placed in the primary values (core values). And I mean both have genuinely decided that these values are more important in life (looks, money, etc) than (honesty, responsability etc.). Does this mean this will work out for them both? Given that they are both in the same mental level as to feel the same way?
I guess I am trying to be as open minded and I am stretching in this question because I actually know of two people living in this type of relationship and they look genuinely happy. Could it be that this is possible for the long term? Since they couldn’t care much Much about the primary or more important values? Or are they living in a fantasy world?
Sure, some people’s core values are based looking good at ANY cost. Some people base their whole self worth on their incomes/ material assets.
My experience is that trying to relate to people like this is limited to talking about material things..where they like to travel, what they like to eat, things they want to buy or have bought…etc…. Much else is a waste of time; they value things; they do not care to know much else…about themselves or others. And I am sure there are plenty who are happy with that. I try to not be judgemental about that, honest : – ))
The EUM experience taught me that I value experiences and communication/ understanding between people more than material stuff. I will go to great lengths to understand another person. I also learned that this effort at understanding another is* totally* unsatisfying if it is not reciprocated !
Afrogirl, your last paragraph sounded like something I could have written!
These articles have been really useful – it has long been a source of amusement amongst my friends that I’m ‘the fussy one’ when it comes to men. Yet I am the one who is still single, having been in a string of EUM relationships.
I am still learning to love myself (it’s hard) but I feel closer to working out what my values are now, and more importantly, how to recognise them in someone else.
another thing…some of us got INTO our current (or past) relationships before we ever TOOK INVENTORY of our primary values. I got with my ex when i was only 21 and barely out of the nest, I hadn’t yet the life experience to decide on important values such as those involved with child rearing, emotional maturity, etc. Then we made babies and …well.
I grew as a person while STILL IN the relationship and figured out who i was and what i valued and for a long time tried to cram him into that mold but he wasn’t on the same page.
Now I know what I value and as a woman in her thirties am discovering still what my values are as new life experiences come up.
It’s good to take personal inventory and observe life so you know what you are all about and what you value, before getting involved with someone.
I think this message about values is the most important one for me from this site – thanks NML for opening my eyes. Last month an amazing man came into my life – on paper, he doesn’t look like the sort of person who I should be going out with. He’s 14 years younger, doesn’t read novels, doesn’t listen to anything but The Eagles (what???!!! he’s more middle-aged than me!), knows nothing about art, etc. but his values align with mine totally – about relationships (love, friends, family, strangers), about intellectual rigour, about spirituality, about material possessions, about manners etc. He’s got ‘flaws’ but nothing that contradicts my values. Obviously, it’s very early days – but such a refreshing difference and I am in such a different space in terms of my own availability because I’ve spent the last 3 months reading this site and making sure that I know what matters to me and what makes me happy. I know I can do that for myself and so having a relationship has to enhance my life, not make it good.
Lot’s to think about. I’m evaluating my mental “list” tonight.
Trouble is….. you have to kiss a lot of frogs, and maybe date a few ***Clowns before you really know what *YOU* value.
When I was in my 20’s, I had NO standards. It was…. “try anything once.” I dated THIS type of guy, THAT type of guy, ANOTHER type of guy……Based on that, I know what I do and don’t like, and what I need. Knowing that gave me the courage to walk out on a guy after 7 months instead of sticking it out for a long time like I did in my 20’s.
One of my friends keeps wanting me to go to a social club to “meet guys.” She met her current BF there, and thinks I should. Ok, maybe I *could* meet a nice guy there, but I know from past experience that I don’t want to date guys that belong to fancy schmancy social clubs. It’s not me. I’m in my 50’s, and I don’t care, I will be picky!
I like the job description approach – essential and desirable criteria. Primary core values definitely need to go into the essential criteria.
Sometimes people can be in a transition phase and so they may be changing their core values and priorities. So a bit of flexibility also can help with reasonable boundaries. Every relationship does need these – at home, with your parents, children, siblings, friends and especially your mate or potential mate. Hmmmm expectations again!!.
.-= Cathy J´s last blog ..Cost of Dating: Part 3 Emotional Cost To Valuable Lesson =-.
I have to be picky because of my boundaries. I refuse to be with someone who does illicit drugs, someone who constantly needs validation and who is constatnly putting themselves down (my ex-girlfriend made this observation and she is absolutely right, if the woman is not strong herself like you are, she will not last very long with you), etc. I value individualism which means my relationships are not governed by someone else including the imagined “God.” I also have to remind you, I don’t have the standard 20/20 visual IQ like other people, but that doesn’t mean that looks don’t matter to me because they do.
I’m not the type who settles for just anyone. She may express interest in me all she wants, but no means no.
NML, since I’m now and have been alone since purging my last EUM some time ago, I’ve been struggling with this message of pickiness and now wonder if my criteria has been secondary or primary. According to the post above, my red flags seems like a breach in secondary values, but to me they seem to belie genuine character flaws. So if you (and of course anyone else on the board who cares to offer their insight) could chime in on these reasons I’ve had to end various relationships and tell me if I’ve been too picky:
1-Bad grooming, as in smells as rank as decomposing organic substances, among other things.
2-Not being able to have much of a conversation about anything because he doesn’t value what you enjoy and openly mocks them as braniac pastimes and thus a waste of time, or resents the fact that you pronounce your words the way they are supposed to be pronounced.
3-Caught in a lie(s) about age or general misrepresentation about his stats/circumstances.
4-Overly challenging children
5-Broke to the point of
a) considering me an upgrade to a better life ticket/ steady paycheck
b) purposely eating a huge meal so he won’t get hungry during the date and won’t have to spend money on food and otherwise stingy
c) promising gifts (unasked for nor “unhinted” for by me) but fails to follow through
d) under water in debt and still, at times, spending counter to their means, while not pursuing or generating additional income
(Is it actually being overly picky to not want to get together with someone who would cause your standard of living to plummet because you would have to do all the heavy financial lifting, but now for his needs as well as yours?)
A little help?
Lindsay
This does sound intriguing. Although sometimes what we don’t like in others could be what we don’t like in ourselves, your list doesn’t seem to reflect that at first glance. It could be your conscious and unconscious wants are not matching. I have coincidentally discussed this in today’s blog post.
There is also an ABC documentary called ‘Secrets to Love’ which explains this from a social science point of view … very interesting.
.-= Cathy J´s last blog ..Cost of Dating: Part 4 Cost in Time and Energy to Beyond Positive Thinking =-.
Lindsay,
I don’t think those factors you listed are secondary at all; they sound like primary character values to me:
1. Bad hygeine: indicates a lack of self-love or major depression
2. Mocking your interests or speech: indicates a negative character who is not accepting of personal differences.
3. Lying and misrepresenting themselves is a big red flag indicating low self-esteem, shady character.
4. Don’t know about the overly challenging children issue; it depends if you see signs and behavior of the children which indicate bad parenting/abuse/neglect with regards to it being a red flag character issue.
5. Financial irresponsibility or being a partner that expects the other to do all the financial heavy lifting (unless you two are raising a child together and he is a stay at home dad) is a major character flaw reflecting selfishness and immaturity.
One approach I’ve tried to use is to look for a guy who can meet my “intimate partner relationship” needs. I have found that I can find other people to share hobbies or intellectual pursuits. But I can only get my love needs met in one place.
This series of columns got me thinking, and I realised something that had never occurred to me before, and I’m 35.
I grew up feeling unloved. Ignored and neglected emotionally by my parents, I grew up believing that all I needed in life is to find someone who would love me and stay with me and everything will be OK.
I made huge professional and personal mistakes because i hanged on to people I shouldn’t have, and so on.
MY lovelife is a series of relationships I rushed into without thinking, pushing things too fast, hurrying the other along…. and even when I did get good relationships? I still wasn’t happy because while I may have believed having someone to love and to love me was enough? It never was. I had what I assumed I wanted and it was never enough.
You know what? Maybe I don’t NEED someone to be with me at all times. I love my freedom. I can stand being loved by someone without being with them 24/7.
Feels like my life is starting anew. Thanks
Wow Soopermouse. I could have written your post. Word for word. I feel amazed.
Whenever I went to my shrink and said that I was picky, she would say it was good to be picky. But I always knew something was off about my “pickiness” and I’d have a twinge of that on the shrink’s couch. I’ve definitely been picky about the wrong things, relying on “chemistry” and general attraction rather than getting to the core values of a person (mine or the other guy’s). I sense of have a long way to go to shake my pickiness!
.-= Tara´s last blog ..Mr. Unavailable #16: Eek a Mouse =-.
Thanks Carm. I sometimes vacillate between congratulating myself for avoiding assclowns and wondering if I’m throwing away the baby with the bath water.