My mother’s planning to go back to school in the autumn to pursue her education. She’s always believed that the reason why people have made ‘better’ decisions or had ‘better’ opportunities or are seen as more ‘worthy’ is because they were better educated. Despite career achievements and great decisions that belied the lack of education that she felt held her back and very clear demonstrations of her intelligence plus plenty of people who are just like her and successful and happy, plus all of us who know her giving her examples in her own life that contradict her beliefs, she still believed that she was less than.
When we’ve decided that a reason is the reason why ‘everything’ or certain things in our life, it corroborates a story that we’re used to telling ourselves plus the belief(s) hides what may be more applicable reasons and it also helps to avoid change.
Recently she was talking to her director about her plans and explaining why. She got the shock of her life when the director revealed that she has one less high school qualification than my mother and hasn’t had a great track record with men.
When I was going through a very difficult time with my relationships and experiencing eff up after eff up, my mother didn’t ‘get it’ because in her mind, I shouldn’t have been doing what I was doing and feeling what I was feeling due to my intelligence and the fact that I’d had so much more education than her.
As I’ve pointed out to her many times, if it were down to intelligence and/or education, I’d lose a significant chunk of my readership! That and it’s not like any ‘edumacation’ I got at home or at school/university had me primed for being relationship smart…
It’s about how we feel about us.
It’s funny though because we can assume that because we’re intelligent, educated, successful, beautiful or attractive etc, that we’re relationship smart (and that people we’re attracted to who are ‘like us’ will be as well) and we also assume that all of these things will make us very ‘attractive’ to potential partners. At the same time, someone who doesn’t think that they’re some or all of these things will believe that their options are less than what they are and keep second guessing their smarts and ultimately selling themselves short. At the same time, whether you have the former or latter beliefs, you can still end up not liking who you see in the mirror and struggling with relationships.
We can be stubborn and persist with a line of thinking and behaviour in spite of compelling reasons to do so.
When we have beliefs that pull us down, we’re only really interested in evidence (or what we believe to be evidence) that supports our perspective so that we don’t have to change. We have a bias towards noticing information, situations and people that chime with how we see and do things. It makes it easier. It’s much harder work to be challenging, processing and changing.
We look for the evidence that suits our agenda and discount the significance or even existence of evidence that tells a different story.
If we’re particularly stubborn and we hear of a different story, we’ll go “Yeah, but they’re lucky / better looking / had a better start in life / younger / older or whatever.”
There’s also the lingering fear of, ‘What if what I’ve steadfastly held onto all of this time isn’t true? That would be ‘waste’ or it would make me ‘wrong’ plus it means I will have missed out on so much, so I’m going to dig my heels in’.
Sometimes we just like the idea of being ‘right’ all of the time even if it makes us feel bad. When we’re like this, we have an objection for everything and insist that we’ve done everything possible that there is and the world is shite or it’s everyone else that has to change.
A belief is only worth holding onto if it benefits you. If a negative belief is having a big effect on your life and your perception of your options, that belief is worth challenging the hell out of.
In the end though, all it takes is a jolt to our perspective to sow the seeds of the possibility that things could be different. It tends to be easier to pay attention to this jolt because our current position where we may already be going through change, makes us ripe for being ready to listen and see. The seeds may be sown over time, like it happened with my mother, and then a big shift (like her conversation) can alter her perspective. She’ll still go and do a course but instead of doing it because she’s less than, she’s doing it now to enhance what she’s now realising is an already intelligent and ‘educated’ in the school of life woman, who still has options.
It would be very easy to fall into the trap of berating herself about all the things that she could have been but as is the way with life, we do the best we can with the knowledge and perspective we have at the time and when those grow, we grow too.
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Dude. Thank you for this. U really don’t know what a difference this post has made for me. Emotionally. Professionally. I beat myself up so much for being a “smart woman”…who got hurt, who is scared to pursue her dream/ afraid to put her all into her dream n fail.
I am literally at the place where I have nothing to lose. I can sit here thinking about the degree program I left that would not have made me happy long term n go back to a basic job I have no real ties to or continue what I dared to start 3 years ago.
#purposelypetrified?
”A belief is only worth holding onto if it benefits you. If a negative belief is having a big effect on your life and your perception of your options, that belief is worth challenging the hell out of”.
Thank you Natalie..This reminds me that only i can challenge my beleif that i’ll never fall in love again or find someone im more, or as attracted to as my ex….Iv’e said it many times but i’m so glad i found your website. I can’t express how much it’s helped me through the dark and how much it’s guiding me into brighter days.
Paolo I still have that thought embedded in my mind, that the x is the best I ever had, the best looking, the funniest man ever.Its something I’m working on to reprogram my thinking,to know that what he was offering me was just sex, broken promises and heartache I want more from a relationship.So that alone makes him less appealing.
I still have bad days and I’m working on that too. I really want to thank Nat and everyone on this site for sharing your stories it lets me know this storm will be over soon.
You’re right sweetie, it does come to an end and you wonder why you ever were so in love with that person. Then the stages of grief seem to reappear for a short while and just as fast as they appear, they disappear and you’re left with a nice balmy summer night fresh air breeze where you just know in your heart that you’re little angels are conspiring to making your life exciting, new, fresh, loving (and sometimes that involves a new and better love).
I joined this site when my ex MM ripped my heart apart and despite being much older, I hadn’t experienced love or heartbreak because I never let anyone into my circle of trust and the first guy I did let in, ripped out my heart, stamped his name on it and smashed it into a million little pieces. I never understood the despair my friends went through (but always there for them even if I was alittle confused) because for me, with my previous masculine energy, could easily write off a situation or person. You become even more motivated to finding yourself after such a heart wrenching situation like many of us have been through.
@Paolo, I’m not expert but after this experience I started reading a lot about lust/love chemistry and I believe the reason you were so hurt over this lost love was because she represented an illusion of the perfect woman (and *some people* are emotional manipulative vampires who are great at presenting this image because they like to collect hearts), because you were unable to withdraw from that dopamine high like many do when a relationship continues, you were left with a major withdrawal.
Simmy..I don’t know if she was manipulative or a vampire but i think she was more than happy to let me stay in my illusion to suit her own needs and temporary agenda. I think she had her time table of interest planned out for me long before it ended.
So yeh, thinking about it, I guess that is manipulative. It’s certainly how i feel the relationship went..If i can call the messed up non entity that she and i had a relationship that is.
Paolo..that’s the best line I’ve read ‘I think she had her time table of interest planned out for me long before it ended’. I’ve been on the receiving end of this more than once. I will tell you though that I subconsciously knew it was coming because there were signs that I chose to ignore from the beginning.
Lacy,
I have those thoughts too – that the AC was the best considering the looks, the charisma, the brain, the career, yet then I remind myself that he is not the only man in the world who has those features and more important – he doesn’t have the features which would be very important for me to truly be happy (he is a bad communicator, tends to blame people for not fulfilling his needs, which he doesn’t vocalize, assumes instead of asking, doesn’t show affection). It just SEEMS that he is the best in comparison to other men so far, because I haven’t met anyone which would have the total package, including the wish to form a healthy relationship. Ok, I’ve lied a little now – a month ago I met a man who had everything the AC did+he was affectionate and a good communicator, yet an EUM (doesn’t believe in relationships). And while I was with him, I hadn’t had a single thought of that ex-AC. So there are better men, but we have to take little steps (meet men which are slightly better than the last one) towards that best one.
I know what you mean Lacy. I guess it is a kind of re learning. Every situation is different and im sure mine is to yours but i have the same thoughts as you about my ex too though..In the end i think maybe just truely accepting a mistake was made and knowing none of us can see the future and it’s up to us to get back to our confident selves. That’s really the best universal attractor i think for both men and women, confidence. Only this time armed with much better knowledge and a great bullshit detection system inside us all thanks to BR…Especialy detecting the bullshit we tell ourselves to play down redflags.
I been feeling this for a while like its so many things I need to change about me to be accepted by by not just men but world.It came to me a week ago that change is good but I do not have to change me to accepted by anyone.
I wrote down a list from my head to toe and the different degrees I would pursue in order to be looked at different by people.I got exhausted once I once I read the list over.It is things I want to do or adjust in my life but most of the things on the list weren’t for me.
I’m practicing loving myself more and this site is really helping me in that quest.
For me, I think it’s not that I’m not good enough in general. I know I’m a kind, loving, lovely woman but I feel that I’m not as good as ‘HER’. I compare(d) myself so much to the women he’s with now and cheated on me to be with. How do I stop this comparison?
I hate cheating he knew this and yet did it anyway. I know I’m better off without him and in the long run she got the fuzzy end of the lollipop but yet I compare…Why her? Why her?
I have to say this. Someone once mentioned that it was easier for her to beat cancer than get over being cheated on. I know whole heartedly believe her.
Confused. If you are finished with him, what does it matter? Someone will always be “better” than you. Revise your thought processes because if you really thought you were what you say, “Kind, loving, lovely woman”, you would not compare yourself and have her coming out on top. Believe in what you say. Forget him. Forget her. They don’t count and are not a part of your life. The crap your focusing on is so unimportant in the scheme of things.
You want to worry and compare? Worry about YOU. Compare who you are now with who you could be if you would only you direct your thoughts to YOU. Concentrate on YOU. Also he cheated because he has issues. Your worth is totally unrelated to why he cheated(s). So don’t feel it’s because you were not good enough. Hogwash!
Lastly. Do not adopt that motto about cheating and beating cancer. That is an awful comparison, and if she had it (cancer) I cannot fathom why she would say such a thing.
Tink:
Thank you so much for your reply. It made me feel a whole lot better. I agree about the comparison to cancer and cheating and it is an awful comparison. But guess the point she was trying to make is that cheating HURTS LIKE A BEETCH.
You are right. They don’t matter to me anymore. I don’t like them or dislike them. I’m indifferent.
He was my friend pre-quasi relationship and I’m beating myself up that I did not see who he was from the very beginning. The callous manner in which he discards women after he’s done with them. I’m more disappointed in myself for not seeing him clearly. I guess the angst and hurt has more to do with the total lack of empathy I got from him. The trust he broke.
No apology, no empathy, no regret on his part at all. He could not get rid of me fast enough to start something with her. How does someone do that to someone they said they loved? Now, I say “said they loved” as post BR I know that the word did not match up with action even before she came into the picture. I have learnt a lot from BR. I really have but my self-esteem goes up and down. I think cheating (a vile as it is) robs you of your self-esteem like few other things. He is a cheater ( I found out post breakup) so I’m glad to be rid of him. Thanks Tink again. I’m working on me.
Dear Confused,
Having been cheated on (and physically and emotionally abused), I honestly can’t imagine anything worse in a relationship (although I would NEVER compare it to a terminal disease!).
I felt that I was never good enough for him which led him to run to other women. I used to spend hours and hours (even doing all nighters) just stalking his Facebook and of all the girls I knew he had been with. They all seemed so much more beautiful and successful.
But I have reached a point where I am slowly beginning to realise it wasn’t about me. It was about HIS insecurities. He never felt that he was good enough for me, and he wanted something ‘easier’. Sometimes we get so bogged down by the idea that it is all about US that we forget that he is doing it only for himself. Do you honestly think he chooses girls based on the notion that “she is better than what I have at home”? No. He goes for what he wants in the moment he wants it.
You are NEVER going to find out the real reason either. I tried and asked and asked and asked, and he even tried to explain, yet I never quite got the reason or explanation I wanted/expected.
You have to make peace with the idea that it would all be okay in the end. Make peace with the fact that it is over (I am saying this, and still struggling with it, but I know that it is what I need to do).
The worst thing that held me back was that I don’t have “closure” as in I haven’t stopped wishing and hoping. You MUST stop comparing and hoping he will explain “why her” to you. He won’t. He can’t.
It has hurt my self-esteem really badly and I have signed up for free consultation at a plastic surgery clinic because I want to be prettier. But I’m not doing it for him. I’m doing it for me.
I’m sure you are a king, loving woman, now it’s your turn to show that to the rest of the world. This pathetic little fly on your windscreen needs to be swooshed away.
Confused,
I’m telling you, comparing yourself with “her” is a waste of time. It’s not about one of you women being better than the other. It’s about *him* (you know, the cheater) making a decision to run from himself yet again, to get his ego stroked. Because, in all likelihood, he hates himself. I speak from experience.
Let me reiterate: it has NOTHING to do with the worth of either one of you. The roles could just as easily have been reversed, and SHE could be “Contestant #1” and YOU, “Contestant #2”. Read Nat’s post on “Why her and not me?” It was a life changing post for me. Until you come to terms with the fact that it was HIS choice on how he lives his life, and has NOTHING to do with ANY WOMAN’s “worthiness”, then you will be stuck in the cycle. Free yourself. It’s actually quite easy, when you look at the truth and see it for what it is. Say prayers for him and her. And then walk away, in peace.
Rev and Wish:
Thank you 🙂 Hugs to you both. I do appreciate your support so very much.
It is very true what you say about beliefs. I recently ended a relationship firmly because I had to hitch a ride with my boyfriend’s beliefs in order to keep the relationship going and after quite a bit of time not having the same beliefs… I decided to not go along for the ride anymore. I recognized his fears and his beliefs being a byproduct of his fears while I was open and accepting change as a necessary part of our growing our relationship. He just believed differently so it was time to jet. I now feel amazing because I stuck to my beliefs which are based from my growing perspectives.
I am awake at three am with ovulation pain. the irony. Yes, it’s tempting to berate myself on what could be but it’s not all within our control.
Still nc. Counsellor says ball is in his court. It felt very right when he said that. Counsellor said he was only feeding back what I said.
I guess that’s progress.
Glad to hear your mother is finding peace for herself.
One of my first big takeaways from br was that “smart” by my definition of it had nothing to do with a person’s values or compassion. Both the ac’s I dated were extremely clever.
I still struggle with feeling ugly but I usually can also recognize that as a distortion.
”Both the ac’s I dated were extremely clever.”
Last year the two guys i dated who attempted to roughshod on my wanting to take things slow were actually quite smart. One worked in oil trading. The other in IT with a phd no less. I say all this to say, yup! I hear ya.
Good you are able to see that the ”i’m ugly” thoughts are just a distraction. Not real, and though i’ve only been posting on here a few months, i’ve been reading since oct-nov time when i experienced and future faker / houdini guy.
All the women and men here sound like beautiful people to me. So stop on that one! 🙂
Still, i’m thankful + learning.
Magnolia.. I guess intelligence is your hook that Natalie has mentioned in a post before..We ascribe our hooks to other attributes that are non existent..In your case it must have been if he is intelligent it must mean he is x,y,z in other areas. Sadly it’s not the case much to often painful experience.
This is an awesome post, thank you.
I have been struggling with a yoyo situation, but I feel that this time I have finally been able to make a healthier choice, and it is the world of difference. I feel like a burden has been lifted finally. A lot of it is learning how to put it all into the proper perspective; I feel like I am succeeding now. Success is getting up one more time than you are knocked down. Life will bring you down; but you don’t have to stay there. Instead of seeing all the bad things, remembering and experiencing the pain of loss, now I am seeing opportunities to grow, to learn, to live the life I had always been too timid to try for. This has always been in me, I just needed all the tools to make the key to unlock the chains that bound me, and this website has helped me so much, and continues to help.
Well said, Dove.
wasnt it well said 🙂 Love it!
This is such a profound post Natalie. It’s wonderful your mother is going “back to school”. We place a very high value on education. As a prof, I’m dedicated to education, exploring ideas, thinking, and writing. I would love to have your mother in my class. Due to your influence, I’m online and perhaps your mother could be in my class?
You are right though, it’s not about how educated somebody is. I’m throughly educated with so many degrees I’ve forgotten how many. And I’ve effed up on the relationship front every single time! There is no causal connection.
Good for your mother. That must be very comforting. It seems like my daughter is on the same path as your mother. Let’s keep our fingers crossed for both of them. How wonderful for you and your mother. One day I hope to be there with my daughter.
PS. Moving day is 60 days away.
Hey Natalie,
I’m on my period, so I’m overly emotional and mentally jumbled. I’m trying to get my thoughts out for this post, and I’m sitting in this mixture of feelings. Sadness that your mama had to feel that way about herself most of her life (Ummm….I’ve never even met her OR you in real life, and I’m getting teary-eyed?? Yeah, I’m PMSing :)). Quietness inside of myself because you brought up a very profound thought that I’m still rolling around in my head and heart. I just love that this blog is not just about crap relationships and how to avoid douchebags (although that info is gold too!). You’re doing a community service, I swear, Nat.
I’m gonna go eat a bag of chocolate chips now. Peace. 😉
Oh my goodness
I was reading this on the tube in to work, and i’m am also on my time. I almost burst out crying. I’m not sure if it’s the true-ness (not a real word, not sure) of the article or my period. But, i felt and elation and also knowing. So sending hugs, can i have some cookies please? Hehehehe
tee tee,
Of COURSE you can have some of my chocolate! 🙂 Pull up a seat.
This post triggered something in me and I’ve just experienced the most amazing moment of clarity. It may seem like I’m rehashing the past and I truly apologise for that, but I would like to share what I wrote in my journal today.
Part 1. Take one older married professor and one adult student just out of a poor, emotionally abusive relationship. She thinks he is way up there in the stratosphere, more intelligent than her, more accomplished, more successful, more respectable, more worthy, more everything. He starts paying her special attention, singles her out, praises her, flatters her and she flatters him right back. No one pays any attention to the other person in the room, his wife. Instead, she now stands a little taller, feels beautiful, more confident. Someone amazing wants her.
Part 2. She falls pregnant. He wants an abortion. She decides to keep the baby, but she is scared. Now she doesn’t feel so good anymore and she knows that in his eyes she no longer has the same worth as she used to. All of her abandonment issues have been triggered. They continue emailing and skyping, but now the cruelty starts. He convinces her to travel half-way across the world. She can’t afford it and is still having morning sickness, but goes. It’s her birthday and he gives her money. He is aloof, sometimes hot, sometimes cold, but basically has emotionless sex with her for 5 days. She is confused and cries when they have to say goodbye. He says “you will adapt to my absence just as you did to my presence”. She goes home devastated. Attempts NC.
Part 3. Two months later she loses her precious child. She holds him and tells him she is sorry and she loves him so much. She feels as if she is being punished for being a bad person. She tries to reach out to the married professor. He likens her baby’s name to a bad character in a children’s book and requests that he is not mentioned at the baby’s service. She feels battered, worthless and abandoned just like she did as a child. She avidly reads everything she can on BR. It is her lifeline and it all makes sense. She tries NC again.
Part 4. NC doesn’t work because she is in so much pain and when he makes contact she willingly falls back into the fake comfort of fantasy world again. She then spends more and more time trying to get him to validate her and her baby. He convinces her to travel half-way across the country. She thinks this is her moment. She desperately tries to talk about her child. They have sex and she tries again. He gets angry and leaves her stranded at the airport with no money to get an earlier flight. Once home, feeling like a piece of discarded trash she starts NC, but falls into a deep depression.
Part 5. Four months later he makes contact. Does she want to meet up with him at a conference? She does want to. He still wants her, right? She must be worthy after all, right? But she is changing. She reaches out, once again to BR, gains amazing strength and realises she isn’t the same person anymore.
Part 6. I’m not the same and this post triggered something in me. I’ve been allowing a cruel, cold, compassionless person to determine my worth and even worse, to determine my child’s worth. The only voice I was paying attention to was his, but he doesn’t get to decide our worth. Who is he after all? An outwardly successful, intelligent man ok, but he is a cheat and has no empathy. He is cruel and appears to take pleasure in being that way. I don’t want him anymore.
Part 6. So what now? I’m rock bottom, but I want to start again. I want to try to forgive myself. I want my baby to forgive me. NC will no longer be a problem and in my heart I’ve said goodbye to the cruel, married professor.
“In the end though, all it takes is a jolt to our perspective to sow the seeds of the possibility that things could be different.” Thank you so much, Natalie.
Lilly-
Jiminy. What a profound post.
Who did you think you were, wanting anything? Uppity little thing, aren’t you? A slave, a scullery maid, a little nobody. How dare you have feelings. So inconvenient. Lie down and stop sniveling. Ok, I’m done. Go clean yourself off and get out of here. And don’t drip on the sheets.
I am a retired diplomat with a PhD and as down to earth as you could find. I don’t care about status symbols and never did. It’s so darn lacking in character. Anyone I have ever worked with, who has their values screwed on right, has snorted at people who use their positions to gain advantage. It depletes credibility. Lilly, he’s a hollow man. That’s all he has, there is absolutely nothing else there. You had an encounter with a hologram.
The XMM latched on to my education and career like a koala bear to a eucalyptus tree. I didn’t like it one bit and said so. When he scurried back to his wife and she asked about me, those were the first ‘attributes’ he coughed up. I gather she was impressed that he ‘picked’ me and not an uneducated waitress. Wow. That’s a marriage made in heaven if ever there was one.
You’ve come so far, Lilly, so very, very far. You have nothing to forgive yourself for. You loved, you cared, you trusted. Celebrate your capacity to feel. People spend big money in shrinks’ offices for that.
Lilly, your story brought teas into my eyes… GOSH, how human being can be SO cruel, what a piece of sh@t! I am glad that NC is not a problem for you, try to avoid MM in all cost! You need time to heal. and day by day you will feel better. Best wishes xx
Little Star,
Thank you. His emotional cruelty was the hardest part to come to terms with. I just couldn’t understand and I probably never will, but it’s over and it’s now time to start healing properly. Hugs to you, xxx.
Lilly,
As I said in a different post, this souless creature is the worst of the worst. But you are not only going to survive this, you are going to gain enormous wisdom and empathy. You will become strong in a way you never imagined. You will be able to help and heal other people. Simple Pleasures is right – hitting rock bottom is cause for rejoicing because finally something new can happen! You’ve turned the corner, and there’s nowhere left to go but up. I was struck by the fact you told your story in the third person, and this seemed like real progress because you are taking a step away from the pain and looking at your situation as the Observer, not the victim. The Observer is the true you, and now you’ve made some space between your true self and the pain. This is tremendous!
Wiser,
I like your description and yes, I have made some space between myself and the pain. That is such an empowering way to look at it all. I took a look in the mirror today, a proper look. It was horrible, my hair, my skin and my body all show signs of too much stress. Today I’m going to take some small steps to change this little step by little step. Thank you, xxx.
Swissmiss,
You described it all so perfectly. He was gross, absolutely gross. I didn’t see it then, but I do now. Thank you and hugs, xxx.
Swissmiss,
You described it all so perfectly. He was gross, absolutely gross. I didn’t see it then, but I do now. Thank you and hugs, xxx.
Lilly,
Your post left me teary-eyed. The idea I got was that you´re a strong lionness defending her little cub. I´m sure your baby knows, whereever he is.
Sending you strenght and a big hug!
Lilia,
That is it exactly! Reading your comment brought up a swell of anger, well absolute fury really. Treating me like trash is one thing, but doing it to my child is completely different. When I think about it I feel like a volcano ready to explode! Back to therapy for me! Thank you and hugs, xxx.
It sounds like this has been a painful journey for you, and I can certainly relate. I fell off the wagon with my ex numerous times. Good thing is, last time, I realized how much I have outgrown him. How it will NEVER work. We will NEVER be ok. This was horrifying to me because I worked so hard on complete forgiveness. I desperately wanted it to be peaceful between us, because I did care for him. He was still the same. He wanted to use me and play his usual games. I hit a whole new rock bottom because I am finally done. Nat’s No Contact Book came out. It has been key to NEVER looking back, except for insight and wisdom.
You will get there! Be kind and compassionate with yourself. You are making progress every day. Keep enlisting support. Only time and God can heal wounds, but He will! You will make it! 🙂
tiffrbug,
I completely relate. It’s like you try to squeeze the last drop of hope out of it, but there’s none left. I’m finally done too. No more being used, no more games. It’s a good feeling. Thank you and hugs, xxx.
Halleluia Lilly!
Rock bottom is the place we go to change
ourselves. You’ve been grieving and processing and in emotional turmoil for a while. And at least rationally you see the light. I hope your seeking his validation is behind you. I’m optimistic because you are smart and working so hard on your growth.
I think emotionally it will continue to be one step forward two steps backwards for a while in your mind.
You will always be in the process of processing this relationship throughout your life. You’ll go through the what was I thinking, what ever did I see in him, why did I put up with it stuff…we all do. In time you will look back and think this trauma in my youth brought me to the great mature woman I am now. I can’t believe what I endured, but I survived and went on to flourish.
I too, had the professor experience. And I recommend you never revisit your youth as you may have professional bumping into him in your life. If you ever have to have “bumping into” him experiences in your future, just say to yourself, “he is someone I knew in my past…he is from my past.” Do not re-engage
on a personal level again.
And when you meet a really wonderful man who is truly your friend, you needn’t confess all the heartache details of your past. Just say, there was a traumatic heartbreak relationship in your past, but you learned from it and changed.
It may not apply to you, but I think many women project their fathers onto their professors. I spend time reviewing the dynamics of my father that made me addicted to my professor. That may be your next processing step. You will be fine Lilly.
Simple Pleasures, your comments are always so comforting. Good for you for moving beyond the math prof. It really sounds like your perspective has grown and you have too.
Lilly, I’m stilling rooting for you too. Stand firm. He has absolutely nothing to offer you that would enhance your life. That’s the cold, hard evidence based on his past behavior. I keep that fact in my mind when the nostalgia creeps back up. He’s still trying to sell you a used, broken vacuum cleaner. The exMM I was involved with was as tenacious as what you are enduring. Here’s how I’ve reconstructed the fantasy based on the past evidence: He can show up for dinner (late) that I’ve paid for and spent time cooking, we’ll have sex, and he’ll go home to his wife. That’s not at all what I want. Walking through that pain again isn’t even an option. Keep focused on the facts you’ve written above. He is cruel. Boy would I like about 30 minutes of his arse!
runnergirl,
I wanted to reply to your last post, but I’d taken up so much space I was feeling bad! Thank you for your continuing support. I always take great interest in your posts because like many here we share the experience of being the OW and it has truly been a horrifying experience. One never to be repeated. I have my anti MM repellent right beside me. Oh and I love the dating stories they always brighten my day. Thank you and hugs, xxx.
simple pleasures,
One step forward, two steps back is exactly what’s happening. The emotional battle going on in my head has been indescribable, but I’m still in here somewhere and I’m determined to get through this. One basic rule now firmly in place is no re-engagement whatsoever on a personal level. Absolutely none. I most certainly projected my ‘absent’ father onto him. He fit the role perfectly and the outcome was the same. I was ‘abandoned’ by both and history repeated itself. Next step is to make sure it doesn’t happen again. Thank you and hugs, xxx.
~ Sending ((HUGS)) to you Lily~
Thank you for sharing your story.
Yes, the pain can be so difficult to ‘walk through.’
I understand why people try to avoid deep pain because I have felt it. It is a different kind of pain, something that seems to come from the bottom of my soul, sending an explosive message, sweeping upward and screaming, “‘This’ is how I really FEEL,” and it hurts…it really does hurt.
Such is life, though, the good, the bad; the sadness, the joy; one not being able to exist without the other….
I find it comforting to place my head on a pillow, wrap my arms around my body, and comfort myself, as I cry out; it still hurts, but, to quote Grace, “it’s doable.”
May your Higher Power continue to keep you strong, and of good courage,
God Bless,
~~Sugarland
Lilly,
Hugs and support!
So much growth! YAY!!!! 🙂
Allison,
Thank you for the wonderful support. You have helped me on my way, hugs to you, xxx.
On Leaving Sugarland,
You write so beautifully and you described the feeling so well. At times the pain was so overwhelming I just couldn’t move. I tried just about everything to avoid it, drinking too much, valium, intellectualising, over studying, but there was really only ever going to be one way out and that was to feel it. For anyone else who is feeling this way you will get through it and Grace is right “it’s doable”. Thank you OLS and hugs, xxx
Lilly,
It’s wonderful to see how you have framed your exMM fantasy relationship with your new perspective. You have already had great replies here, so I don’t have a lot to add except a few thoughts.
Part 7. Lilly starts to rise up from the rock bottom she feels she has reached, and grows into her new perspective, realizing her true inner beauty and strength. She comes to realize that she is permitted to make mistakes as part of her human condition. She finally sees that her baby DOES have a strong connection – the one to his mother, the only one he needs. Lilly realizes that there is nothing that her baby needs to forgive, since she fought for him with all she had. She treats herself with gentle care, and turns her focus away from the exMM and towards her beautiful self and the happy future that is hers to claim.
Lilly, it is one year ago today that we completed our first day of NC from these self serving exMMs. I have felt for you throughout the year, as I know you have been through rough times. You have also shown such grace and strength, and I am happy for you for that. Stay strong my NC sister. Sending love and hugs xo
Learner,
I always gain so much comfort and strength from your words and I know you understand the pain of losing a baby. The hopes, dreams and all of his future just suddenly taken away. I remember your first posts on BR and I felt the pain you were in, but I’ve watched you get stronger and stronger. I am full of admiration for you and you instill the hope that I will get there too. The last year has been a horrible whirlwind of emotion and I’m looking forward to some peace. You will always be my NC sister, forever in my heart. Love and hugs to you, xxx.
Lilly.. You have been through so much. Sometimes we do have to hit rock bottom before we finally get it. Taking off those rose colored glasses and seeing the person who brought us here for who they really are. I have been guilty of giving someone more worth than what actually exist within them. NC will give you clarity and help you to see the situation for what it really was. Not a pretty picture looking back eh.. Stay strong my dear, you are on the right path, you have grown so much, I read it in your post. He is disgusting & will someday get just reward for the way he chooses to live his life. What goes around , comes around I have witnessed it many times. Maybe not on our timetable but it happens. God Bless 🙂
Kit-Kat,
Not a pretty picture at all! With space comes clarity and with clarity comes complete horror. There can be no going back now. Thank you and hugs, xxx.
Lilly,
What a beautiful example of what NC can do for us when it is applied to people who mean no good. Top of the class for you, my dear!!!!
Revolution,
A + it is and there will be no slipping back! Keep dancing! Thank you and hugs, xxx.
Hey Nat,
Thanks for BR.. Its been a life saver for me.. really cant express how much this site has helped me in my time of need…it has given me great support in my time of despair, doubt, hurt and being lost.
I can understand how your mother feels, as I’m struggling with the same issues myself.
I know I have achieved so much and should be proud of myself…but I’m always feeling I don’t measure up with the people in my profession because I don’t have a uni degree… Despite having proven time and time again by getting renewed in a competitive IT Finance Industry… Get picked over a large number of competitors and earning a very good income.
I came from a broken family background..where I was the child from a previous relationship..I never felt that I fit into the new family when my mum married and I got 2 half bros..lets just say that marriage fall apart too..lot of emotional issues resulted for me and my half bros..my mother just has a way of breaking you down with her hurtful words..resulting in both my brothers wreaking their life by drug abuse..but that’s a whole other story!
Anyway, I’m now a professional career woman supporting my son on my own, paying off my own home, have a great successful career, putting my son through a private school.. Doing well above the average Joe.. Yet I can’t shake the feeling in not good enough and That I should be able to feel I’m entitled to go after a middle management role.
How can I change and grow my perspective? HELP
Accept that ok, they got a degree, well done them, but your degree is from YOUniversity.
I am also struggling with the degree thing, going to see about doing one in September. Not embracing it with excited anticipation tbh, but I know when I do it, it truly will be an achievement over my life circumstance cards, and that will keep me going.
You also have answered your own fears by the achievements in work you have mastered WITHOUT a degree (from what you wrote). You wrote that and you recognise your strengths, yet are not totally convinced by them based on your comparison of others. You dont really have anything to prove, except to your percieved perception. If that is ‘your’ insecurity imp, then why not try for a part time degree course?? Is it a fear of flunking it, for all those degree kids to sneer at your failure thats holding you back? Just seriously sit down and walk through every scenario from going to the uni to doing the course, to struggling with the coffee machine infront of what feels like the cast of Hollyoaks…visualise where this fear is haunting you from.
But you are already at “that level” where those degree kids hope to be, one day. Just own “you rock” 😉
x
Who is the “average Joe’ that you are doing better than?
Really?
Did you go over these peoples houses and JUDGE them?
As long as you think that you are better than other people, you will always think that other people are better than you.
Or shall I be kinder, as long as you base your value and self-worth on superficial, external, cultural bullshit, you will always find a reason why you aren’t “good enough.”
Ok, still harsh,… you have to change the beliefs in your head about worthiness.
Personally, I don’t believe that owning your own home, putting your child ‘through’ private school, having a great job, and a ton of degrees makes you better than other people.
Folks are just folks, humans walking around in different various sizes, shapes, colors, blah!
Self-worth is ones birth right. We were all born worthy. It isn’t something that you have to earn, but it appears to be something that you need to acknowledge, protect, and value, and….
I lack tact, but I’m truly trying to help.
Good luck to you, 🙂
That! What DiggingDeeprer said!
Perspective is subjective….especially when that perspective is screwed.
All through my life since the moment I was concieved, has been the message, “you are not good enough, you are not loved” So yes, this life is about re-addressing that perceived perception.
I was severely tested with my now EX AC who was a text communicator and reset button happy, and the Ghandi guru AC before him, and the narcehole before him *oh sigh* but I see them for what they are, and they wont change but I can.
Last week, I went for my dream job I have been trying to get into for YEARS. So competitive! I wanted this because the current company admin clerk said that I could “fill in the gaps between the others shifts” Sorry, but I dont fill in other peoples gaps, when I am shit hot at what I do. So with new job application, I was getting signs they were intersted in me…all looking positive and tickety boo. So I get the “We regret to inform you email…” but they threw me the crumbs of offering me joining the bank staff as I was a “strong candidate” Jus not strong enough, huh.
Now I really wanted to state my own worth and not accept their afterthought offer, and I was also totally devastated. I just needed to get through that interview to prove to myself all my work on myself had paid off, I wanted to have success at this, at a time when I walked away from my ex.
But I am learning and replied back, how sorry I was I was unsuccessful, and I would think about their offer and get back to them in a couple days (after I knew I was headed for a mini meltdown). So I cried it out, and everything was coming up emotionally, all my fucking life history, the LOT.
Jeez…
Then my “worked on” me came out. I thought…I will use their offer to show how shit hot I am, and then some. It will be my spring board, no sorry, cannon ball, into a contract with them. I will be wearing their uniform, wearing their name badges, I WILL BE doing what I went for, so I did achieve my aim to an extent. And to be fair to them, they didnt know me from adam, just the odd agency shift for them after 15 years out of the NHS so I actually did bloody good considering.
So I emailed them back, said I would accept (their offer of crumbs lol ;)) but I had to enquire whether or not I could do my clinical assessments needed for my degree course, whilst on the bank, and I would be willing to do some voluntary hours, so not to interfere with my work. Well, I acted professionally, and they seemed to be slightly kicking themselves that such a dedicated worker with aims of achieving a high standard off her own back, has just been given a relief position, and not one of the posts going.
Then my current employers, who said I could fill in the gaps, gets wind. The manager rings me up personally, and tells me how valued I am and they dont want to lose me and will support me through my degree and to get the uni to ring her and she will thell how fanfuckingtastic…….yadda yadda
You know when you are actually floored…I couldnt make this up. Here I was, gutted about not making through interview and not being thought of as good enough in any area of my life, suddenly, it all turns around, and yes I did re-base my own perception, and knew my value work wise, just that my employers didnt see it, so maybe I had an inflated, distorted perception of myself. So it seems that ‘they’ had a re-evaluation of their own perception of me, for the better, and I do believe it was because I held my own, had that self belief and worth going on, and it showed to them.
Im not completely there yet, I still struggle with being hypothyroid and the bloated weight gain that hasnt gone down, and I am still sad me and ex didnt make it, but then again, relationships are waaaay down on MY priority pile for a change. Infact, I just dont want to go down that route at all, because I am so focused on what makes me tick in my life.
Never will I let the insecurity gremlims run amok with my being again.
Nat
Too bad your isn’t here; I
too would love to have her as a student. Older students are sooo much more focused and self disciplined. I am glad I threw away family and pursued an education. I could see myself otherwise following the same multi generation pattern of failure and despair; saddled with kids they didn’t want, lost opportunities, bitterness that they anaesthetize with drugs, food, and alcohol. No thanks. As much as formal education can develop stuff like critical thinking skills, only some have the insight to apply those skills to their “real” lives. So yep, the ability to have relationship smarts or perhaps the ability to be an empathetic, caring person do not always mesh with education. My ex husband was a Dean but also a wonderful caring human being; the AC is a program director who has systematically hurt dozens of women and lacks the ability to care. I look for both; intelligence and the ability to function in a caring, respectful way. There are plenty of folk out there who do not or did not see the need for an education; some are caring, some are not. Three days ago a bunch of us runners heading for a training camp run were accosted by a group of chain smoking local talent standing outside a bar. They accused us of being elitist, of destroying our trails, and we all should get out a$$es back to Denver where we belong. Lil Noquay felt obligated to raise herself to her full imposing 5’7″ and give em hell. Cannot imagine how these dudes treat their wives/girlfriends.
So very very very true. Thank you dear Nat, yet again, for a post that speaks to my Soul and helps my self-esteem grow as I see a new way of thinking.
Okay, you guys might laugh, but this is what’s coming up inside of me as a result of this post (remember, Aunt Flo is here and all, so grab your grain of salt): I’ve been taking Zumba and Barre (ballet) classes for the past year and a half and on quite a few occasions, the two instructors that teach those classes have given me compliments on my dancing. One instructor keeps telling me that I should start teaching. The funny thing is that, in my head, I’m like, “Yeah right, Revs. They’re just complimenting you because they want to keep one of their regulars in class. You’re decent, but nowhere near good enough to teach a class!”
My thoughts are: “I have a couple extra pounds on me. I’m 35 years old. I’m ME. These are all reasons why I couldn’t do this.” I know this may sound really lame, kinda like, “What’s the big deal, Revs? It’s just a freakin’ gym class!” But I’ve always had this thing about (cue the 80’s music) wanting to DANCE(!) and not feeling good enough to do so. I mean, I work full-time, I just got a freelance gig editing my second book (yay!), I’m doing volunteer work on the side, going to the gym, not to mention my social life….and yet at the end of every busy day, I come home and put some music on and dance for at least a half hour to an hour. It’s in my BONES!!!!! I just love dancing. It’s such an expression of joy, and it really, really helped pull me out of the depression that the experience with the AC put me in.
My (9 to 5) job has been a little hairy lately, and I’ve been working my ASS off full-speed ahead, but in this economy, you never know what’s going to happen. We’ve been slow, and there are rumors of a corporate takeover (with, probably, many layoffs). The STRANGE thing is that I keep hoping they lay me off so that I can collect unemployment (I’m just totally burnt out and bored with what I’m writing, and sick of being a workaholic and never catching up with my workload or being appreciated. Rant, rant, rant.) But I keep thinking: If they lay me off, while I’m looking for more steady work and while I have the time, I want to get licensed as a Zumba instructor! Ha! It seems so bizarre to say that, since I’ve been so immersed in the corporate world, writing copy for industry giants as well as artsy fartsy people like myself (for much less pay! ;)). But…well…what can I say? I WANNA DANCE!
OMG. I know that when the hormonal fog that I’m in lifts, I’ll be embarrassed by this comment. Lol.
Revolution: “I know that when the hormonal fog that I’m in lifts, I’ll be embarrassed by this comment. Lol.” Well, I think us women should stop blaming an “hormonal fog” whenever we entertain some unusual and maybe “crazy” ideas! I think we totally need that kind of thinking if we want to shape a life that WE truly want.
If you’d like to teach classes, go ahead and do it. If you don’t because you come up with other plans that you loven even more, then pursue them. But even the “fantasizing” itself ist nothing to be embarrased with. It’s the first step to all kinds of great things!
Elly,
Oh trust me, I get fruitbat ideas all month long, lol. I just don’t post them here. Thanks for your encouragement!! 🙂 I think I WILL go for it!
Nothing to be embarrassed about…dancing is in your soul, and anything that makes one soul sing, Im all for (unless its chasing ACs that is ;))
Sometimes it takes to be unemployed to re-find ourselves again, and to redefine our life path. Burn out is never good, and when adrenals get over hit, you collapse and its noooo fun. Been there.
I did get a flash in my mind when reading your comment of Nicole Kidman in that chanel ad “I LOVE to DANCE!!” hehe…thanks for the smile, and go follow your joy Rev. x
Soulfull,
Yes, true. Dancing is in the sooooouuuullll!!! Thanks for understanding! 😉
Rev, do you think that us BR readers have managed to synch our monthly cycles as so many of us seem to be on “that time?”
Anyway, your post reminded me of when I was first offered the job I now have as a college lecturer, lecturing in (socialist) politics as part of the adult education programme. I was INCREDULOUS when I was first offered the job. I thought they were so far wide of the mark that it was actually funny. It took nearly two years of the college persistently headhunting me before I accepted that maybe, just maybe, I could actually do this. Best decision I ever made. I LOVE my new role and have gained so much from it. The joy I get from sharing my knowledge with others and seeing then develop and grow in confidence is just amazing.
I am over a year into it now and I have only just stopped thinking that I am some kind of fraud who will be “found out!”
Go for it!
Tabitha,
Holy hell, are we all on the same cycle???? Lol. That’s a scary thought. A BR militia of kickass women! (I mean “scary” in a good way–like Scary Spice. ;))
I just LOVED your story, and it really brought the point home. Thank you. I totally understand the “imposter syndrome” (has Nat written about it here? Hmmm….)and I think that’s the case with me. (By the way, how great that the college was after you for TWO YEARS!! Obviously they saw something in you that they wanted!!)
I guess I just have to respect my instructors by accepting their compliments. It’s weird and uncomfortable, almost like looking into the sun for too long, accepting compliments on things that you *sense* you are good at, and have a passion for, but that you’re not quite sure if YOUR perspective is right about. Hmmm….deep thought. Anyway, thanks again for the comment, Tabitha! I really got a lot of encouragement out of it!
Rev I can totally relate to just loving dancing! I have been meaning to start my (fairly boring but well paid) recruitment business back up, but something’s been stopping me. When I got back from travelling end of Jan I spent almost 3 months partying out at gay clubs because I absolutely LOVE to dance. It made me so happy and free! I stopped because I made myself sick with too much partying, socialising, lack of sleep! I’ve been trying to get my business focus going again whilst doing a really boring temp job (grateful to be working though!)
Last night a friend had a spare ticket to THE most AMAZING dance musical I have seen. Called Some Like it Hip Hop! Now I am more of a disco queen with a splash of 80’s but WOW you have to see this musical if it ever comes your way. It’s finishing in London on Sundy and is THE best feel good musical! It’s made me think I definitely need to get back into dance in a healthier way… Like classes or going out for fitness and not drinking. You should definitely go for your goal of being a Zumba teacher! One of the last classes of Zumba I went to the trainee teacher was a really large girl, super fun, and man could she move! I’d love to be at that standard that I felt I could teach. It’s all about how you believe in yourself though for sure. I will start by going to a class! Baby steps! Good luck Rev and enjoy the music! Xx
Bella, thanks! I’ll DEFINITELY have to check that musical out if it comes my way!!! And thanks so much for the encouragement; it means a lot! I TOTALLY understand being exhausted from wanting to dance instead of sleep, ha ha! Let us know how Zumba class goes for you!
Ah Revs, how great. Isn’t it ironic how easily we can brush off/explain away compliments and encouragement but tend to focus on a one-off criticism? I think as Nat says in this post, we look for evidence that supports our beliefs even in the face of evidence that tells a different story. Tell yourself a different story. Even if you don’t get laid off, you can pursue your Zumba license and teach at night or on the weekend. Imagine whipping off your corporate gear and sporting your hot Zumba outfit and getting paid! As for the few extra pounds and being 35…pffft to that…not to dismiss or diminish how you feel. At 54, 35 seems young enough to be my daughter and I can’t even remember 35! Sow the seeds of possiblity.
Remember how we clung so tightly to the fantasy possiblity with the exAC’s, twisted ourselves into a Zumba pretzel, and denied all the AC evidence? What if you were to put all that energy into you and pursuing a tangible dream?
Just so you know, I’m walking my talk. Next week, I meet with two well connected women regarding running for office. It’s total long shot. I have no money (that’s a fact based on evidence) and I have no connections (that’s a belief)that the evidence already contracdicts but I’m a stubborn Taurus.
I’d say go for it. You don’t have to be laid off, kinda like don’t quit your day job.
You grow girl!
Runner, my dear stubborn girl. 😉 Your comment rocked. Thank you for that. I loved this post of Nat’s because, as you reiterated, we DO look for evidence to the contrary of what is in front of us. Almost like we’re afraid to get too invested in any type of positive feedback, lest we find out that it was really all bunk. “Tell yourself a different story.” You’re a smart one, Runner. And so spot on. Ironically, this is something I semi-shouted at the AC “friend” the last time I saw him and he was giving me some lame-ass “one time in bandcamp” story. Like you, I am learning to walk the walk. (By the way, I’m so glad you included an update on your campaigning in your comment! I have been wondering about how it’s going with you! Thank GOD that I can look up to women like you as a role model, and not resort to any type of “real housewife” reality show trophy wife. *shudder*)
I also wanted to tell you that I laughed out loud at “Don’t quit your day job.” LOL! I know what you mean, and I definitely wouldn’t be teaching Zumba for the money. But with this editing job on the side and my full-time job, I won’t have the time to teach for a couple of months anyway. Still, it’s something that I see as a possibility, now that I’m looking at myself from a different angle. I have to go now so that I can put on my neon pink off-the-shoulder half shirt. 😉 Thanks again.
Interesting post. I stayed in a crappy relationship for 7 years, and wouldn’t have ended it on my own, thank God he did! My self esteem was crap, or else I NEVER would have remained in that situation! I am educated, and I am blessed with an awesome job. Ironically, I work as an ER nurse, and have recently traced the patterns of addiction/codependency running rampant throughout my family. I definitely displayed Florence characteristics in my epiphany relationship. If anything, I constantly have to be on guard for my tendency to “fix” people. Anyone else feel this way?
Tiff,
I definitely have been down the “fix” people route. I am more than happy to be there for ANYONE going through a bad time, no matter what they have done to me/how well I know them.
With the ex, I hung around and tried to fix HIS self-esteem, while destroying mine. I helped him achieve his dreams, figure out what he wanted (apart from girls to cheat on me with!) and generally helped him with anything he needed.
The “fixing gene” is a curse I think, especially when it comes as a cost to you. I really hope you figure out that YOU come first, no-one else. And I hope I do too.
Hi tiffrbug,
I am a recovering codependent with addiction patterns, and I know exactly how you feel.
It’s been a long hard road, but I am no longer functioning as a codependent, and I am beginning to see where I can still help people without triggering my codependency.
Understanding boundaries and how to respect my own, as well as the boundaries of others, has been a real key for me–specifically internal boundaries…,correcting false and/or limiting beliefs has also been crucial…also, SELF-LOVE…and dealing with the effects of emotional/physical childhood abuse.
Here are two websites you may find beneficial: and http://joy2meu.com/.
Of course, Natalie and BR are a GIVEN. 🙂
~~Sugarland
BR is an amazing website. Insightful in so many ways. Facing the pain of what you have to deal with is so much easier with BR. I am so grateful for this site and I wish everyone finds their peace and self love.
So right Natalie. It is a long time ago now, but I do remember one of my earliest thoughts when I realised how I had been screwed over by the ex was “How on earth did someone as “supposedly intelligent” as me get fooled by him?” “How the fuck didn’t I see it?”
Answer: Because I wanted so much to believe that he was crazy about me, like he said, that I could fix it all and make it all like it had been for the first few months. I just stuck my head in the sand and ignored the screaming alarms and red flags he was generating because I wanted to stick with my fantasy version of what was going on, thanks very much.
Thanks to BR, never again. I am not that woman any more.
@Tabitha..Can completely relate.
Ditto to your post Tabitha… I am not that woman anymore !! I will continue to work on me & learn from my mistakes. They were just stepping stones to a new & better me (painful as they were )… Can we all have a cyber group hug 🙂
Another ace post 🙂
As there’s a lot of job-related tales on here, I’ll add mine… I’ve just been dealing with a sticky issue with one of my team and my line manager turned around today and said “see, I’ve told you and told you how perceptive you are when it comes to dealing with people and you’ve just proved it!”
I guess she has been telling me, I just haven’t been listening. The thing was, I got into a big mess being ‘perceptive’ before (suicidal men threatening to drunk-drive to my house if I didn’t go and meet them at 4am etc) so I’d sort of written it off as a weakness, rather than a strength. Actually, no, it’s a strength – my lack of boundaries and insight into myself was the weakness… now I’ve sorted those I can be SUPERWOMAN! 😀
“suicidal men threatening to drunk-drive to my house if I didn’t go and meet them at 4am etc”
HOW is this so common!?
Lots of drunk men (/people), lots of nice girls (/people) like us brought up to believe that our responsibility extends to ‘helping’ other people even when they’ve no intention of helping themselves, I guess.
It’s weird – that happened about three and a half years ago, but it’s only relatively recently that I thought about it and said “Woah, that was revolting!”. SO glad that’s no longer my life 🙂
Perception Correction dear yoghurt: You ARE superwoman. Hugs and congrats!
Yoghurt,
Hell yeah, you’re perceptive!!!!! Anyone can see that, even just from your comments on BR!
Thanks rev and runner xxx
We’re ALL superwoman. BR is a great big superwoman club 😀
Dear Lilly,
You’ve endured so much. It saddens me that you were put through that. But, with that said, you have strength to see each day through. No need to apologise. No one should be sorry for being themselves and reflecting what means most to them.
Godspeed and strength.
xander,
Thank you for your response. Reflecting back has been so useful. It’s enabled me to turn confusion into clarity and denial into acceptance. I do have strength. I can feel it. Hugs, xxx.
Oh my goodness!!! I can relate in a myriad of ways to this post! First, I recently started dating a guy who I met through friends (not a set up, but happenstance–my car broke down and he’s their mechanic). Nat’s mom had it in her head that an education was THE ANSWER to her life and this thinking kept her blind to recognizing all her own wonderful accomplishments. The guy I began to date says that I’m sweet (“sweeter than most”, his exact words) and thinks that this quality alone tells him everything about me. He won’t let me unfold at all, let alone unfold in my own time because he thinks he’s found THE ANSWER to why I’ve never been married even though I’m in my 40s.
I am educated but would like to get a graduate degree. However, due to past immaturity and irresponsibility, I can’t do it as I’m paying heavy consequences for my past. Yet, the guy I recently dated isn’t formally educated and owns his own home while I’m a renter with roommates. I see myself as “less than” people who don’t have my education, yet who do accomplish so much more in their lives than what I’m accomplishing.
I’m learning to own my strengths and inner qualities now and my life skills are improving (but still underdeveloped, which is why I still see myself as “less than” those who have excellent life skills). I know comparing myself to others is part of the problem but I do worry about becoming homeless in my old age.
Revolution–If you’re reading, I do hope you’re embarrassed as hell when you read your post about loving to dance! Risking embarrassment and experiencing it is–gasp!–a part of what it means to be emotionally available! 🙂 Also, I think it’s awesome that you love to dance and maybe your teachers see something in you in addition to talent–the ability to TEACH, to communicate how to do something in a way that builds up the other person. This may be a way bigger compliment than what you may be thinking. Also, I sleep on a floor futon. I love it! My former (and abusive) roommate thought it was weird, wanted me to invest in an actual bed but I sleep so soundly on my futon, I honestly don’t see the need to get a regular bed. I’ve slept more comfortably and soundly on this futon than I ever did on a regular bed. Yeah, I agree it’s a little eccentric but so what? I like it. F*^k them! Dance, Girl!!! Here, allow me to turn up the volume for you. 🙂
Rosie, girl. I AM reading, and what a nice thing to say. 🙂 I’m beaming over here. Thank you. And eff your ex-roommate too! You OWN your futon-sleepin’ ways, girl!!! 😉 Lol. It’s funny the crap people try to pin on us when it’s really some weird-ass insecurity of THEIRS, not ours.
Often what we think matters really doesn’t. Education is just a vehicle on the journey. Sometimes we need to hike, swim, walk or fly. We need more than one mode of transportation in life and just as we must discern which route to take, we have to choose mode of transportation. Education is nothing more. Just a means to a new beginning that may or may not include more formal education. We’re not where we go to school or where we work.
Some intellectuals with top notch education can’t get a proper nights sleep, stay married or look their kids in the eyes. Some people read up on Mandarin, biographies of all the greats, solve math problems in their heads and it means nothing if they don’t know how to love or receive love.
When I’m old and grey, I’ll be happy I received higher education, but even happier that I stayed grounded. Most people fail, not because of any inadequacy, mistake or short coming on their part, but because they don’t try or give up trying too soon or try at something that lacks meaningful depth to them. The most important thing in life is to try in regard to your most treasured and genuine desires. As I think most human beings are good, I think most intrinsic desires follow suit. It’s our job to shed the lies we tell ourselves so we can find them. Buried desires are the real gems in life.
The flip side of this obsession with “academic performance” is that you can get bullied for it too. Happened to me A LOT while I was a teenager.
Not only my schoolmates bullied me for getting straight “A”‘s, telling me I was bad because I was “dumping goods”, but even my toxic family did! Anyway, whenever I got “only” a “B”, my family made snide remarks about that too. I simply couldn’t do it right!
I think I even limited my ambitions because of that. Those experiences (I got bullied for about 10 years at school) affect me until today.
I think we really need to learn to respect every human being for who they are and judge them from their CHARACTER. We need to stop making up sick reasons why somebody is “valuable” or “not so valuable”.
Btw., this used to confuse me A LOT. On the one hand I was told that being smart and doing well academically made me repulsive and unlovable, and that it was proof of my “utter selfishness”.
On the other hand, later on I met quite a few people (especially guys) who behaved in a very haughty and condescending manner towards me (and towards others) because they were purportedly so extremely smart that they were above “everyone else”.
This made no sense to me. I simply couldn’t understand the logic of those two totally contradictory “lessons”. For a while I tried to resolve that conflict by sucking up to those haughty, arrogant “smart” assholes, thinking their “intelligence” must be somehow different from my own for which I had gotten bullied so badly.
But no, those weren’t healthy “lessons”, and there was NO deeper wisdom and NO logic in them. It was all brainf*ck, pure and simple. Both parties (my parents and my school bullies as well as those haughty “smart” guys) were assholes.
EllyB,
Geez, I’m sorry you were bullied so. My goodness. I experienced the bullying with my family. For a lot of school I made sure I was such a loner that no one noticed me and therefore could not bully me. I did get made fun of for my clothes though (stepmother drove a jaguar. I wore hand-me-down pajamas to school).
It’s interesting that the young woman I became best buds with in college was a bit of a bully.
I lived with my two cousins who were a few years older when I was young and they were relentlessly cruel. I know kids can be mean but damn, it really sticks with you and can come to haunt you for a long time.
My ex was haughty and arrogant. He was the smartest guy delivering Chinese food in the world. He thought he was better than everyone and every job. He hated everything that wasn’t in accordance with his intellectualism. But yet, he couldn’t even wash his own sheets or properly clean a bathroom. I guess he was above that too.
I can’t say that I was much better. I judged people off the back of superficial appearances.
It takes work to assess people. Getting to know them is the only way. It’s scary there is no magic formula for assessing people on appearance.
I have shamefully groveled for the love, affection, and attention of the most ridiculously pompous and haughty characters. None of us has anything to be too proud about other than if we consistently treat ourselves and others with respect and care. I can’t say that I am there yet.
I would like to add that being smart/perceptive doesn’t always win you a nobel prize either. Throughout history, people have been attacked, ostracized and sometimes even sentenced to death for understanding certain things TOO well, either because they were seen as a threat by some other people or simply because they were way ahead of their time. I’m quite sure this happens even today (at the very least careers are getting destroyed because of things like that). This also means that some academic overachievers (not all!) are probably merely great suck-ups and not really that smart. This is just to put things into perspective.
EllyB,
I couldn’t agree more. It’s easy to write off people because they don’t fit into a certain template. But really the only people who judge and persecute others are the ones that feel bad about themselves.
I like academia and have found an area I fit well in. Some family members make snide comments about it too. Such as, “Are you going to just be a professional student?” I’m working toward my Master’s and was working full time too when this was said to me. People can be insanely ignorant and cruel. It’s a hard truth. And it’s even harder when it’s family.
@ peanut great post. Well said…mode of transport!
Peanut
I really liked your description of education; for me, it was and is a vehicle to escape both economic poverty and poverty of the mind, I.e., being limited by your beliefs and those of others. Nope, we aren’t our careers, and trying to force us to see ourselves that way is one of the great failings of higher ed. Even today, I am seen as a nerdy science prof even though I am basically far more an environmentalist, social activist and farmer. I actually hate reading papers in my academic fields but will read everything from medical journals to articles on self sufficiency. I have always tried to treat others with kindness and respect which has nothing to do with my educational level and more to do with how it felt to go through my life NOT being treated that way. I think that’s where life learning and true character come in; can you take life’s hard lessons and learn to be a better person from them or do you go on to pass the hurt along, perpetuating the cycle?
noquay,
I agree. Life will send us lessons whether we are in academia or not. I chose to further my education because I realized there were great programs in the arts where I live. It’s something that fills something, an emotional void perhaps.
It’s healing, helps me become a better more sensitive, stronger person as well as forces me to learn discipline. That said I have to be very careful not to be judging and pompous myself.
I hurt so much inside due to a lack of emotional family support and feel so alone often times, so it’s easier to write people off, judge them and dismiss them in order to not let them get too close as I’m certain they would disappoint or hurt me. Things and life are getting pretty lonely though.
Noquay,
I would like to take from your line, “I think that’s where life learning and true character come in; can you take life’s hard lessons and learn to be a better person from them or do you go on to pass the hurt along, perpetuating the cycle?”
I was dumped by a slightly older woman who chopped me down, belittling my nostalgia for home as I am an immigrant to the USA; made it aware to me that I shouldn’t sleep with my therapist as I try to better understand my past and to come to terms with it; “gaslighting” me at being overly sensitive and ruminating, wondering how none of her actions measures up to her words. All the while she goes to see her husband, separated for four years, on their wedding anniversary.
I felt my efforts have been mocked for striving to have better character as a person with values and boundaries, while she carried along her years of hurt to project onto me saying things like, “35 and still single” whilst in my arms.
It could have been worse as she was pushing to have children, giving me an ultimatum.
Sigh. I was not strong enough. Under a spell. Sweet nothings. My lesson has been excruciating and taxing.
I laud every person on this blog and Natalie for pursuing what is healthier and better for you and potentially the next love.
Thank you for the hope.
xander,
That this was your therapist is something to grieve in and of itself.
Therapy is where we are supposed to feel safe due to adequately upheld boundaries between the therapist and patient. The therapist leads the protective reins in this process.
Get away from this woman and stay away. I am sorry you went through this.
Xander- Doing this by phone. You slept wirh your therapist?? I hope you report her to the Board & she loses her license! Even though you were a willing participant, the nature of the therapeutic relationship puts her in a position of power. Thus, a sexual relationship wirh your therapist is detrimental to your health in every way!!!
EllyB- Doing this by phone. My sister teaches kindergarten. One year she has 4 (four!) prima donas in her class. Each od the four girls was told by her parents that she was the most beautiful girlin the whole world, more beautiful than all other girls. I’m very serious. When one of the girls boasted of being the most beautiful, she was corrected by one of the other girls, “No, you’re not! I’M the most beautiful.” Then one of the others would correct her and roynd and round they’d go. The thing is, each girl yruly believed she was the most beautiful in the world. It
Oops…publishwd too soon. EllyB- the point I’m trying to make about the “beautiful” girls is that it doesn’t matter how smart, talented, or whatever quality the person has. It’s how a pwrson carries that quality that counts. It’s two sides of the same distorted coin- You were pyt down for being smart while the other people you mention were told they own the world for being smart. Both perspectives blind you & the others to seeing reality.
Hi Rosie,
Ha! You misunderstood.
I was telling the woman I was dating that I was attending therapy to sort out some personal matters. Companion’s main concern was whether my therapist was attractive and that I shouldn’t sleep with her because that’s what happens, right? According to my companion at least.
The point being that this EU woman took a lot opportunities to prod, poke, ridicule, chop and break down my boundaries.
I can laugh at myself just as much as the next, but there comes a point where it becomes acutely personal especially when being that vulnerable around some who says they “love and care” for a person.
By the way, therapy has been very helpful for me, alos realising where most of the pain was coming from – an unhealthy and uncaring dynamic in a so called relationship.
Thanks for taking time to repsond. I hope I made it more clear.
xander,
Oh, I think I misunderstood too! Nonetheless, here’s to you having a rich, adventurous and healing journey. Wishing you well.
Xander- Oh my goodness! I’m so glad I misunderstood. 🙂 What a relief! Whew!
“…an unhealthy and uncaring dynamic in a so called relationship.” It’s like what Tinkebell (BR poster)said, “Running to [that person] won’t cure the pain; [that person] is the pain.”
Also, Kudos to your Mom Nat! What she did takes courage. New things are scary. And I love your art.
Swiss Miss, Little Star, Wiser, Lilia, tiffrbug, simple pleasures, runnergirl, On Leaving Sugarland, Allison, Learner, Kit-Kat, xander, Revolution,&(Tee, Teddie, Jewells,Rosie, Noquay, from a recent post),
I simply cannot express my gratitude to everyone here on BR enough. You are all such beautiful souls. Thank you so much for keeping me safe.
As for us being all on the same cycle, I just discovered my recent emotional turmoil was also a bout of PMS. Had forgotten all about that, seeing as I´m completely celibate at the moment.
I did have some unexpected EA reactions, though. So I guess that is a good thing, even if it made me feel bad for a while. Not to bore you with all the details of my week, but I let one of my girlfriends know I was uncomfortable when she made fun of my hair. (They do that a lot. Apparently having curly hair is laughable and gives them reason to be condescending as if I´m Annie the orphan.) I had never ever showed them I minded, didn´t want to make a fuss but now I just thought f**k it. Who cares if they feel bad because I´m angry! They should feel bad!
So I spoke up and uncomfortable as it was, I´m proud of myself. I´m on my way to become an accomplished, self respecting BR woman. Oh yes, and on the same cycle as all of you wonderful BR ladies.
Your mom sounds like an amazing lady…
what a wonderful post – so often we don’t really see a situation (or our life) how others see it – we focus on what we think others have.
I love this site. In fact it has helped me to have absolutely no contact with someone I broke up with a year ago, after 17 long disastrous years. I particularly resonate with this post, because after we went our separate ways, I went and got my GED and am now attending college on the path to becoming a domestic violence counselor.
Every day I know myself better and better and read as many articles as I can on self esteem. I believe all things for a reason.
THANK YOU THANK YOU
Free
Although it took me days to get to read this article, I knew it was important for me to read it through. I have been at this point in my life where I know I have to change my thoughts, attitudes and behaviors. I have made several half hearted attempts, but I know I am not living the life I want or need to live, post divorce. I have been in survival mode for more than 6 years, I am not doing what I need to do to meet my parenting or career goals or even relationship goals.
I am dating someone now. He is good to me ad to my son. He is the first man I introduced to my son. I am trying to decide if he is good for me, though. I am happy with the way things are progressing- slowly. We only see each other 1-2 times per week, which is fine for m. I know he wants more, but both of our work schedules prevent that, which helps me to explore life management strategies without worrying he might feel slighted, if that makes any sense.
Thank you so much Natalie, for providing concrete words to explain these nagging feelings!!!
Rosie – Glad we cleared that up!
She was painful. I tried to see the better in her but overtime hope wilted. Watering dead flowers…
Peanut – Thanks for taking the time to respond. A very slow healing process as I am struggling to let go. One day at a time, each finger is pried away; I know for the better. Besides, I’ve been ditched. In my view, I overcompensated for the lack of most things one would ‘normally’ experience in a relationship.
Lilly – Onward, upward with a little stumbling in between. It’s all ok. Less resistance, more acceptance of what is and be on guard.
Happy Monday! Despite the rain 🙂
I recently bought The book Mr Unavailable and the Fallback girl and it’s really helping me… I have had this current situation and wanted to throw it out there for opinions or advice on how to see this, in regards to a guy being “half -heartedly” interested, and Im not willing to put up with that, but we met online and I dont konw the correct “PACE” of how this should go… so here’s what happened:
———— I just got an email from this guy I’ve been writing for at least 5 or 6 weeks.. His name is Matt, he seems really nice, said he was shy (so trying to keep that in mind) goes to a church and is involved, ( met on a Christian dating site and he seems sincere really), and down to earth, but the only weird thing is ( and maybe this is my impatience, bit I don’t think so) he doesn’t log in to see my note in response to him each time, for like a week or 5 days! Then I wait a couple so I dont look like Im sitting there waiting to answer, but I dont like games like that, so then again he takes a week to write again..
So,I wrote the whole thing off about 2 weeks ago, like “whatever, this guy isn’t interested enough to ask me to coffee, or to even be interacting enough to log in a couple days later to reply, etc” … so, when he said “how was your week?” I gave a hint that I’ve joined some Meetup groups so I could meet peolpe and go out and do things b/c Im fairly new to the area, only a year, and that ‘s seemed like a good way to get out there” …so, whether he took it as a hint or not, in his NEXT note he said “We should go out for coffee sometime, maybe the 2nd/3rd of July or 7th, etc” . This note was on the 24th of June, I replied on 27th and said sounds good, and told him the options of days that were good. So… time ticks by….. he doesn’t look at note for about 5 days, now THIS in itself is weird right? Like, don’t you care to log in and see if this girl answered and said yes?
So, I went on with life, made plans for the 6th and 7th, to not seem like Im “waiting” for his answer… then he emails me last night and chooses a place, and I had already sort of written it off as some guy who is half-heartedly interested and not too Gung-Ho on anything…!! Or, should I go anyway, and see if he is just shy, like he said, and introvert? Even introverts have email they can check more than once a week, hahaha! so is this an excuse Im making for him? It just felt like “interview” letters back and forth, except the last 2, were kinda humorous and playful and we joked about some things we had in common…
Would you go to coffee or tell him “I kinda am surprised you wrote and barely logged on once a week, and it’s like some kind of ” *yawn*, half-interested thing” …??
He is in a town east the city, and wants to meet in the middle b/c he only knew I was west of the city … I guess this isn’t a “date” it’s just meeting somewhere “fair” for coffee in the middle, but does that seem strange that he just picked some place in the middle?
Ok, sorry for all these questions, Im just confused and not sure how to read it and feel mixed feeling in my gut, that tells me “why bother if this guy is not INTO it” —another only-semi–into it guy, hmmmmm 🙁 I should move away quickly than waste time (?) or just go and see!?
This guy is a waste of time, and you’re right, he’s not interested. I can only imagine how bad it could get down the road.
BTW, even a shy guy will be more persistent when interested.
I have never done online dating, but have been told to meet with the first few weeks of initial communication, and not drag things out- the ones that drag it out are only looking for attention.
Good luck!
ps- the above is an account of my 1st online dating situation EVER< so I dont konw how fast/slow is normal, thanks .. I only know real life! haha!
Lie. Say that family is in town. Ergo you have to stay in your area (as you need to be nearby, as they don’t know the area). Hence HE has to come to YOUR turf.
No meeting 1/2 way after his shenanigans.
He’s not too “shy” about suggesting you meet 1/2 way!
NML,what do you think?
Elle,
You need to talk to him on the phone a couple of times before going to the trouble of meeting him. Email is just a nightmare for getting the wrong impression of people (though for what it’s worth he sounds like a bore who has set himself some ridiculous rigid 5 day response schedule). 5 minutes on the phone will tell you more than 5 weeks of emailing.
Hey Used, thanks ! As far as I can see this is the “initial Non-Date, just for coffee-one-hour” to see if there is a spark “in person”, its not about his shyness, it’s not a date, so Im ok with a neutral place in middle, but for dates or if anything happens, he’ll HAVE to step up – – does that sound reaosnable?
The part that DOES annoy me is that he only opens this datingsite emial once a week, how lame?! Woudlnt you be more excited to REPLY and chat? ITs like “YAWN” ok, I’ll go check this now, like some chore! Hello! We wrote about 6 times back and forth … just fyi… BUT THAT took 6 weeks LOL!!
Thanks Used, Allison and Mymbl!!.. good advice and input… He hasn’t ever asked for my phone number, so for me to offer it might be kinda weird (too forward?)… we only emailed about a meeting, after too damn long, LOL … but hey, here’s what I emailed him this afternoon (yes, email, b/c I told him it’s better for me and he did it on the latest one instead of that site where I met him: so here is what I wrote: ………..(removed details)….
Hi Mxxxx,
Hi, hope your week was good too, sounds like it was, boy this heat is nice but some days have been a bit much, aka 90+! Hey, I got your email last night, and since it had been a while, ( I guess you check that site only weekly**, it seems, on most occasions?) so anyway, I have plans for the 6th now, but the next weekend of Friday night 12th, or Sat/Sun 13th,14th is still good.
TRxxxxxx seems like a good middle-ish point to meet, I guess, I dont know the areas well- I’m in Caxxxxx, and I’ve never been to TRxxxx but I hear it’s pretty, so it sounds good!
Well, talk to you soon…. or, when you see this 😉 Elle
ps- You did say on your profile you respect communication, so I thought I’d tell ya I sorta have wondered about this…**
——————– ok, well, I’ll post what my outcome is…. but I’m sensing what all of you are sensing and it’ll probably be “nothing / no reply” or some defensive thing (?) who knows, and after reading lots of the Mr Unavail and Fallback book, just got it last week, I’d have to say “who cares” at this point… the real reason I got the book was b/c of a heartbreak from a multi-year relat, that Im not fully over, so I guess (or I dont know) if moving on and dating is a good idea.. its been 1.5 yrs and Im still hurt, bummed, heartache, so Im a mess ;( but that’s another story for another time…
Honestly,
I would leave the bit about responding and communication out, as it’s coming off a bit passive aggressive.
I would also say that I have some free time for following weekend, I wouldn’t list all days- Girl, let them know you have an active life.
I always believe if something is too much work in the beginning, it will be be a truckload of work throughout. Please don’t settle and be so accommodating.
Good luck!
Well, he answered… here’s what he said:
Yes, I don’t log on to the site as often as I’d like, but I do have a full life and I try to log on as time allows. I recognize it can be a bit rude (albeit unintentionally) to not always respond in a timely manner, but I feel that your telling me how you have “wondered about this” is a little unfair. Even your own profile states that you “dont have time to check this regularly, so please give me a WEEK or two to try to reply,” so I’m sure you understand how difficult it can be to find time to log on, look at profiles, and respond to messages. When I’m dating somebody, of course I rearrange my schedule and priorities to devote the necessary time and investment in that relationship. But if it’s only a matter of exchanging messages with someone I haven’t even met in person yet, I respond when I can.
If you’d still like to grab coffee next weekend, I’m currently free at… (time listed)
So, I wrote back:
Thanks for answering…. I’m not sure what to even say… 🙁 maybe I shouldn’t bother, but just in case I’ll give an example: When someone is actually interested, more than half-heartedly “whatever” type interested, they are happy (not obligated) that things progress into having more communication or having it be a priority to talk to each other, bc they’re actually gaining more interest.. it’s not some static thing, at least I dont think it is.. It is odd to ask someone to do something and then not want to know what they’re answer might be {aka not log in for days or a week} so really, actions speak louder than words…
Is this UNREASONABLE, and if so, that means I’m taking the advice of “Mr Unavail and Fallbackgirl” TOO seriously, and I’ve got TOO strict of an idea of what to expect? What do you think?
I love this post. It so suits me.