30 responses so far ↓

• 1 JohnofScribbleSheet // Feb 13, 2008 at 1:05 pm

  “Let go of him and don’t try to reason the unreasonable.”

  Exactly. If he likes you enough he will call you. Its as simple as that. Don’t waste your time on him and don’t be desperate, that is VERY unattractive.

• 2 Brad K. // Feb 13, 2008 at 5:03 pm

  JohnofScribbleSheet - “If he likes you enough he will call you.” Umm, you might be missing the point. We all like to think that we respect each other, that getting to know and like one another means that we will also enjoy each other’s company now and in the future.

  But the world isn’t that simple. The guy in this case isn’t your average wholesome kid next door - he has issues. He can’t sustain a relationship, for whatever reason. He seems to accept affection and regard when it is offered, but he has no idea how to return the affection and maintain communications. Guys probably consider him a fair-weather friend, if he needs something he will show up, otherwise he doesn’t seem to think about anyone but himself.

  The point is, he likely seldom thinks about the lady, and when he does is quite unlikely to contact her. For the dysfunctional, the issue is not ‘he loves me, he loves me not’, the issue is about his experiences, his perceptions, his world view, his ability to bond, and how all of that is skewed from what we want to think.

  Astelle: Learn about codependence, and how you are enabling his dysfunctional life. The No Contact Rule is not a goal, it is a beginning. This is the time to find yourself, brace up the weak spots, and find yourself a new path through life. Cherish the fond memories, accept he has passed from your life, and proceed with your grieving.

  Blessed be.

• 3 Izzy // Feb 13, 2008 at 7:18 pm

  Brad, I just had to say: absolutely spot on. This time, I’m with you 100%.

  Blessed be,
  Ixx

• 4 Indra // Feb 14, 2008 at 3:02 am

  Its a pattern which WE WOMEN, US help to set.
  Here’s what happened with me. I went from an independent, intelligent, secure woman to a nervous, snivelling wreck, it did not happen overnight, he did it systematically and you do not even realise it creeping up on you.
  While we used to speak everyday, my guy was BIGGGG on giving me the silent treatment. It ‘d throw me off balance and I’d keep calling him, and sending him texts to which of course he never replied. This would go on for weeks until he’s finally satisfied or his egos been inflated enough, I mean who knows, we are not dealing with the norm here but the point is this, we are participating in these games. Oh here is the best part, if you think coz you put up with this BS he is finally gonna see how great you are, appreciate you or finally treat you right, think again, ALL IT DOES IS GET WORSE, REALLY WORSE. I know, been there, done that.
  I have stepped away, not easy but possible and the longer you stay away, the clearer the picture becomes.
  I have broken up and got together many times, nothing has changed. And you can read all the blogs and articles from here to kingdom come but if you are not going want something good and right for you, nothing will help.
  I spend each day thinking, if I had put my foot down and respected myself more, one of two things would have happened.
  He would have left me or learnt to respect me
  more. I would not have lost either way now would I.
  Take care all.

• 5 Elsie // Feb 14, 2008 at 7:17 am

  I LOVE it when people speak out about narcissism! It’s so prevalent in Western culture, which means we really have to keep our eyes peeled for these guys (and gals) when we’re out there in the big, bad dating world.

  Astelle: May I add that you should prepare NOW for how you’ll react when and if you hear from him? My experience with narcissists is that they always come back, given a sufficient cool-off period. When they do, if they catch you off guard, it’s so easy to be swept away in the current of that old longing.

  So decide now. Block your phone and email, and if he manages to get through the filters or contact you in some other way, choose NOW to NOT RESPOND. NC is about not responding to contact as well as not initiating it. If he calls you, hang up. If he emails you, delete it unopened. Don’t even bother to read or listen to what he has to say. It will be full of lies designed to convince you how sorry he is and how much he’s changed.

  Also check out this support group for victims of narcissists. I was a constant presence there when I was detaching from the N in my life, and it helped more than anything else.

  Singletude

• 6 Astelle // Feb 14, 2008 at 7:49 pm

  Elise,
  I just realized that I have not thought about to prepare if he makes contact since it is very unlikely that he will make contact.
  NML has tought me lot about these type of men, also all the mistakes that I made.
  SHOULD he make contact and I let him suck me back in, then this circus starts all over and I will not allow this ever again, not him
  or any other man. I was reading a little bit about narcissists and honestly that scares me a little bit. Time to stay far away from these kind of people!
  I don’t want to join a support group, I am starting to feel like myself again and I am getting ready to put myself out in the dating world!
  I should know all the red flags by now and I will never ignore my gut feeling again.
  Dubravka Rendleman
  “The minute you settle for less than you deserve, you get even less than you settled for.”

• 7 Indra // Feb 15, 2008 at 2:47 am

  Sometimes we fall in love and give our heart before we know who it is we are dealing and then when we do. In my case he plain blatanly lied to my face and well I believed him. He wanted this and he wanted that and all of that with me. I asked him if all this was too much for him to handle, he went Nooooooooo….and then when I ask him to step up to his word, he gives me this look and goes “Things change” and then goes “Lets Break Up” just like that without batting an eyelid. One minute you are idealised then discarded like trash. And the worse is this, even as we know this is more to do with him, we end up feeling like we did something wrong.
  I take it one day at a time, be authentic and real about who and what I am and believe that like will attract like.

• 8 Elsie // Feb 15, 2008 at 11:20 am

  Astelle: That’s terrific that you’ve been reading the lowdown on narcissism, and it’s even better that you feel like you’re healing and are ready to move on now! Good for you!

  Singletude

• 9 cheekie // Feb 16, 2008 at 11:35 pm

  You know how I have chosen to start thinking about these ‘assclowns’ (love that term NML)
  Everyone comes into your life for a reason.
  Maybe the reason for us letting these types of people into our lives is something greater. A lesson we need to learn. Not necessarily that there are assclowns out there, but how to have more respect for ourselves. It doesn’t even matter about them anymore. It’s about us, and not feeling like every guy is like this (cause they aren’t) and not feeling like a victim.
  We all get taken, but realizing that we have and learning what we DON’T want is a huge lesson to learn, and one that will serve us well.
  I frickin’ hope anyway!
  I don’t even know if narcissism is the right way of describing these people ( people-cause chicks do it to), but more of an incapability to deal with anything. At all. Most of the time they are just scared little insecure boys who need validation.
  And pretty self loathing as well. In my experience.
  But then again, I have wounded bird syndrome.
  Love the drama…lol.

  Just remind yourself that you have done nothing wrong, you are not stupid, you are not a fool or a victim, and above all you have learned a very important ‘don’t want’ for your mental records…

  easier said then done, of course, cause I tell myself this everyday…but it does help!

• 10 moxee // Feb 17, 2008 at 12:31 am

  Humph. EUM suck!

  I met a great guy online, we got talking. I didn’t fancy him until I saw him in the flesh; we hit it off immediately. He lives in Europe, I live in England.

  So we fly back and forth, seeing each other. Talking, texting, emailing… then I notice that I’m initiating contact. Ho hum. We go on vacation, and when we return there’s no message to ask if I got home OK. Ho hum again. Contact dries up slowly but surely. More ho hum.

  I spend Christmas with him and feel like I’m cashing for attention. He’s loving when I’m about to leave to come home, but something still doesn’t feel right.

  Since January, we didn’t talk much and I had had enough, so confronted him. He said the distance was an issue; not being able to see me was making him grumpy, and his solution is to withdraw (he did this to me when together). I questioned this, saying that communication was the key to keeping things going - it’s crucial anyway. If you can’t spend time with me, then a fucking text message or random phone call wouldn’t go amiss.

  He’d had a LD relationship before and it didn’t work out - did he not know where I lived? Why start something and get yourself - and someone else - into something you’re going to destroy anyway?

  In the spirit of not being treated like a tard (or a turd) I pointed out that ignoring me/not returning msgs/ not calling when you say constitutes not treating your lady that well - and fed up, I said I was out of there. No apology even for being such a git to me - no nothing - most guys will say even a token ’sorry’ to make themselves feel better for being a jerk. Then he has the cheek to ask for space to clear his head, to let go of the stress and tension (that he’d contributed to).

  I joined some single networking groups on the site we are both on. He saw this and reacted with hurt and outrage, saying he cared about me and that it had upset him. I told him I still liked him, and he’d said that he never wanted to break up, and that ‘he never said he didn’t want to be with me’ - not the same as saying you do, is it?

  Now he wants to see me while he’s over on a business trip - while I called him and asked if we could go out for a drink to put all the recent awkwardness behind us and remain on good terms, I heard nothing more until he emailed and asked if I was still OK to meet up, texting me just a few hours ago. He has nothing else planned, as far as I know. I want to see him (still like/miss him) but am being wary.

  There’s a part of me that wants him back, but I have no idea what’s in his head. I hate this! But I know I spoke up for myself and made it clear I was better than being treated badly. I’ll soon see what he has to say for himself.

• 11 Brad K. // Feb 19, 2008 at 1:55 am

  Elsie, Astelle,

  We regularly change ‘hats’, or roles in life, often on a daily basis. We go from being a parent, a provider, a homeowner/renter at home, to duties and responsibilities at work.

  In just such a way, we meet a new person, and begin exchanging responsibilities and emotional dependence with them. This is a beginning.

  When you begin the ‘No Contact Rule’, this is an ending. That is, the emotional connections, the responsibilities, all end. The person may have the same name, but there is no longer a relationship. He went home. He is no longer ‘the guy I went with’, he is once again ’some guy I know well enough to be polite to, with reservations.’

  Astelle, if he does contact you, treat him as if he were an aggressive Amway salesman or Jehovah’s Witness proselyte - a person that you might know about, but not someone you will let into the house, and if possible you want to avoid letting him start his (18 minute) spiel. He isn’t Hannibal Lector (I hope!), but he isn’t anyone that you can trust - you have learned that about him, at least.

  Picture the clerk that checked the last bag of groceries you bought. If he contacts you, respond as if that clerk now has his name. I sure hope you find more joy in life.

  Moxie,

  This guy sounds like a bad waste of time. There are several risks you face. One, is that by continuing to pay attention to him, other possible prospects see that you are occupied, and you might miss a wonderful opportunity for something that won’t ever happen. Millions of people visit and adore Disneyland each year. Very few ever work there. Think, ‘booty call’.

  Another risk is that you get used to the frustration. Unneeded stress reduces the joy in your life. The dangly sort of relationship you are managing with this guy may draw you into bad habits that will make some future relationship more difficult than it needs to be.

  And, of course with a casual relationship, you can’t count the extended risks of numbers of surprise indirect sexual contacts, even at the kissing level. We all take chances, but some seem less fulfilling for the risk. Give him the number to a good motel, on the other side of town. And be busy during his trip. It sure sounds like it is time to move on - some puzzles aren’t worth solving.

• 12 JJ // Feb 19, 2008 at 5:07 am

  i bet if/when he calls you, and if you see him (especially if it’s you who goes to see him rather than the other way around), he’ll… go right back into the you-calling-him deal in a millisecond. don’t allow him do that to you! because you are better than that.

• 13 Astelle // Feb 19, 2008 at 4:07 pm

  Brad,
  Thank you for your comment. I have no intention to respond to him, to let him suck me back in, he will not have a chance to use me again or try to keep me as a Fallback girl.
  He “disappeared” on me so many times, sometimes with a BS excuse but most of the time
  no explanation, just disappeared.
  I guess now I “disappeared”, maybe now he will know what it feels like. Wait, no, he doesn’t, because it is all about him. My door is closed for good.
  Question, I wonder if these men don’t even like
  women, they go with you because that is what a man is suppose to do, maybe they are gay and live a double life.

• 14 Brad K. // Feb 19, 2008 at 5:47 pm

  Astelle, taking a rigid view - “no intention to respond to him” - might work for some, but seems to me to invite .. failure. Sort of like chastity, if he manages to make contact - bump into you in a store, say, or call on a phone without caller ID - you failed your intention of no contact. Similar to why diets often fail, you are on a diet or you fell off the diet, there is little in between. Looking at available food and deciding that your goal is a taste, and not a whole portion, and letting that taste be enjoyable - and leave the rest. You change your view of food, of how you decide which to eat, and how much - and you have much less need for a diet.

  If you practice thinking of the guy as a citizen, as a store clerk, as someone you have been introduced to, someone with some abrasive manners that you don’t consider an appropriate companion, then he won’t be able to ‘contact’ you in any meaningful way. You don’t get intimate with the person bagging your groceries (at least, not every time .. I hope!), so you already know how to deal with this guy. I am sure you have talked with an appliance salesman, a car salesman, a pushy cosmetic salesperson - so you also know how to avoid letting their plans for you overcome your good sense. You would be direct, as polite as you can be, and understand that you are responsible for your needs, which this guy wants to use for his own purposes.

  Imagine the guy has a lime green jacket, or a really elegant car. Some object that made you feel yourself to be a better person, just to be near that object. Something he had that gave you joy. And he lost that object in a card game. (The object in this case was your respect and affection for him, and he just threw it away.) Now he is just a guy, with nothing to offer you.

  As for whether men like this don’t like women, why bring sex into the discussion. Surely you are more, as a person, than your capacity to share sexual pleasures. Surely there is room for him to have needs, priorities, and weaknesses beyond the bedroom, that would cause him to neglect the part of his life that a relationship would occupy.

  Why not ask whether he wants a relationship? The tired, trite story about why buy the cow when you can get the milk for free doesn’t really have a pat and true answer. Many people, male and female, live their lives in a dating lifestyle, moving from one sequence of sexual encounters to the next, with no thought for the future nor intent to form a family.

  You buy the cow, because you treasure the cow.

  Only, not everyone seems to recognize what a relationship, a family, brings to a person. Like your guy. There are many euphemisms for wanting a family - “I hear my biological clock ticking”, “Don’t you love me?”, “I long to hear the pitter patter of little feed,” “I want some grandchildren before I die,” “You’ll never be lonely any more.” Wait, that last one sounds like a song.. The point is, we form families, to form families. Not to have sex. Your guy turns out not to be a family guy, and you are finding you need a family guy in your life now. I doubt there is a question about his sexual orientation.

• 15 Astelle // Feb 19, 2008 at 6:27 pm

  Brad, I am not sure what you are saying, I should be polite and direct should he make contact???
  He is like a onion, there are so many layers, so many issues.
  He is an alcoholic, control freak and manipulator. My daughter, a teenager, called him a Psycho and she has only seen him twice.
  He has 2 children from his marriage, he is not looking to have more kids.

• 16 Brad K. // Feb 22, 2008 at 12:49 am

  Astelle,

  No contact means that you don’t contact him. You build yourself a life that excludes him.

  If he does try to contact you, talk to you - I suggest that you acknowledge that you know who he is, be polite and formal. If the person that bagged your most recent bag of groceries wanted to talk about intimate thing, you would recognize right away, “Hey, that is *rude* and inappropriate.” You wouldn’t be interested in history, what the person thought of your last trip to the store - not only do you not care, you don’t want to encourage the person to be impolite.

  Same with your guy. No matter how many layers there are, think of Shrek!. Ogres have layers. Parfaits have layers, but only Donkey cares ..

  You can (should) choose to put the onion back, without counting layers or rubbing off the dirt. You just switched from stew to filet mignon - and you “don’t need no stinkin’ onions.”

• 17 Hot Alpha Female // Feb 22, 2008 at 3:31 am

  Astelle,

  This is what you said “My daughter, a teenager, called him a Psycho and she has only seen him twice.”

  Darl, do you think your daughter could be onto something? Because i think that out of you two she is definately the more sensible one in this situation.

  I know that because you attracted to this guy that its really hard to see whats going on and how he is treating you.

  Thats why you really need to take a step back and see it from the most objective view.

  Since that is really hard when you are involved with a man like this .. this is the time when you have to listen to your family and your friends. As they are the only ones that can give you an objective view!

  They are your blessings in disguise. Because it is your friends and family that care about you and want to see you happy.

  Not this random guy who’s divorced with two kids. Seems like he is still trying to deal with his own issues with his first marriage. But its important to remember that HE is the one that needs fixing and NOT YOU.

  Astelle .. i want you to make me a promise. A promise telling me that from this day forward you are not going to have to settle for any less than you deserve.

  Its time to accept that you deserve a loving happy and fulfilling relationship .. with a man who is more than willing to give his whole heart to you.

  Hot Alpha Female

  http://www.hotalphafemale.blogspot.com

• 18 ananda // Feb 24, 2008 at 7:22 am

  Great feedback all.

• 19 Astelle // Feb 25, 2008 at 7:24 pm

  Hot Alpha Female,
  Teenagers and kids pick up on adults very quick. My friends husband, he met him for 10 minutes back in 2004 and told me” He is hiding something.”
  You see, a man can read another man, probably the reason he weaseld out when it was time to meet my friends!
  Never figured out what he could be hiding, I thought maybe the drinking. I have not heard from him, but I was the one that used to make contact most of the time.
  I cut the contact back in September for my own good, he may not know yet I won’t ever make contact again, like NML said, more time than ever would have to go by
  me not making contact. I promised everybody not to ever see him again and I will stick to it, they are afraid for me - not because he is an EUM, because he is an
  Alcoholic, now with the tinted glasses off, I can’t say he drinks too much, he is an Alcoholic.The Psycho part, I can’t really feel it not sure what my daughter picks up on him.
  She can’t explain when I ask, all she says is:”Mom, I can’t explain it but I know something isong in his head!”
  I won’t settle anymore, hopefully in 2008 I will meet a good guy.

• 20 Astelle // Feb 25, 2008 at 7:25 pm

  Sorry, meant to say wrong in his head.

• 21 Brad K. // Feb 26, 2008 at 7:41 am

  Astelle,

  Perhaps your daughter confuses ‘psycho’, which we usually associate with violence and scary actions, with ‘insane’, which is a failure to understand reality, right and wrong, etc.

  The reason I say that, is I find alcoholics to be incapable of telling the truth. I don’t get the sense that they lie for a purpose - deceit is so habitual, they seldom tell the truth.

  So your daughter could be picking up on his problem telling right from wrong, telling truth or lies, and maybe not using the more accurate ‘insane’. Or maybe ‘deranged’.

  And, yes, I did marry one. I got off relatively lucky.

• 22 debbie // Feb 26, 2008 at 11:24 am

  I was reading the comments and I feel that my FWB was with a EUM. He displays a lot of the tell tale signs written here. Mainly the one that says he vanishes for weeks sometimes months at a time and then reappears. I recently had to end my involvement with this man because I couldn’t take it anymore. Said all kinds of nasty things to him (maybe he deserved them and maybe he didn’t). After reading these posts I feel that even though I did this and want no more to do with this man something tells me one day he will try to contact me. What brings these people back even if you have cursed them out? P.S. I haven’t heard anything from him since I did all this. It’s been 3 wks does this mean he won’t try to come back that maybe he got the message of leave me alone.

• 23 Karen // Feb 26, 2008 at 9:19 pm

  Hi Debbie, I have cursed out my EUM many, many times. He always came back apoligizing and I think the reason wass that he knews he was wrong. I used to secretly want him to come back, now I realize how destructive this all has been. Last week I nicely told him I couldn’t see him anymore and I haven’t heard from him since. I have a feeling that when the ending is very dramatic it leaves one party feeling like maybe things can be fixed with an apology, whereas the way I did it this time was more rational and not in the heat of the moment. I think there is a better chance the breakup will stick this time. I hope that you do move on and when and if your EUM comes back you can tell him its too late!

• 24 THT // Feb 27, 2008 at 8:05 pm

  Hi Astelle,

  It is great that your teenage daughter is looking out for you! Children are very intuitive and they always pick up on adults who can’t look them straight in the eye. That ‘feeling’ about someone who doesn’t seem quite right is usually spot on.

  Take some time to pamper yourself and make some positive affirmations about the man you are looking for.

  I wish you all the very best now and in the future.

• 25 debbie // Feb 29, 2008 at 11:37 pm

  Hi Karen, I just read what you had written and my reason for blasting him out was that i found out that there was another women involved. i can deal with a lot of things including the disappearing acts but other people while you are with me. No way No how. I don’t know if he will ever contact me again but I do know that this other women won’t treat him like i did and he lost a good friend behing all of this. One day he might realize and then like you said it will too late.

• 26 Mims // Mar 11, 2008 at 4:47 am

  Ooh, Cheekie is so right on this: “Maybe the reason for us letting these types of people into our lives is something greater. A lesson we need to learn. Not necessarily that there are assclowns out there, but how to have more respect for ourselves. It doesn’t even matter about them anymore.”

  Oh yeah, I needed to hear that tonight because I’m sitting here near tears wondering why this jerk won’t talk to me. It’s not about him, it’s about me letting someone who isn’t even IN MY LIFE continue to upset me. God, I feel so pathetic when I look at myself. Crying, weeping, hoping he might maybe one day honor me with a stupid IM.

  Not about him at all.

• 27 lori // Mar 11, 2008 at 12:17 pm

  I accidentally found the e-mail address of a guy I had a crush on in high school years ago. I contacted him just to say hello and he found out he was divorced twice. He started to regularly contact me with e-mail and phone calls, so after a few weeks of him egging to meet me, I decided to see him. The date went well and all my old feelings about him came back. I was very excited when he promised he would continue to call and e-mail me and we would get together again soon.

  A few days after the first date, he e-mailed me that he would call me in a few days and make plans to go out. He also told me to call him anytime. I figured he was giving me the green light to keep contacting him and he was interested, so I sent him a few e-mails telling him
  what I had been doing lately. I can’t say I was surprised when the call he promised never materialized and he sent me an e-mail stating he was too busy to e-mail or call me for business reasons! I told him I understood and he could contact me whenever and I always wish him good luck and happiness. This happened two months ago and there has been no contact between us since. My cousin thinks I should wait
  a little longer and contact him, and I said no way.

  Reading this article about narcissism and the comments here made me understand what I was dealing with, and I am so happy and proud of myself that I didn’t continue to contact him when he cut off communications with me!

  My friends think since two wives dumped him, he’s probably not good in relationships anyway.

  I remember back in high school the girls used to say he was very immature and never grew up and now I can understand why.

  I little part of me will always love him to death,
  but I’m glad I was smart enough to keep myself out of additional heartache with him (my crush on him lasted six years back then) by pursuing him now and getting rejected. He sent me a nice photo of him via e-mail, I can look at it and cherish the memories of special feelings for him and that’s enough for me!

• 28 Rainy // Apr 1, 2008 at 12:44 pm

  while reading all the comments, God, i feel i am reading about myself…..im amazed at how come so many women feel and go thru the same roller coasters of emotions and turmoil in all parts of the world….how come all of us feel the same way, go thru the same emotions, deal with the same kind of jerks and wow, how is it possible tht there r so many men also the same “Ass Clowns” in all parts of the world! ??????

• 29 Samantha // Apr 24, 2008 at 3:54 am

  Astelle,

  Holy crap. I swear we could have been dating the same guy. I told him what I needed (just phone calls, no jewlery). The last straw was when he stood up our phone date - the only contact I asked him for ONCE a week. Why didn’t I think I deserved better? - working on that! I broke up with him a week later by phone (he lived over an hour away and never had time for me - but sure had time for the kids and his ex). Be done. Be thankful every day that he is now giving you the one thing you need - space to take care of yourself. Don’t get sucked back in, don’t see him. It won’t ever get better and there’s no point. It just means starting over your own healing - and hating yourself more the next time. Figure out what the red flags are with him, and find someone worthy of all that you give to a relationship.

• 30 Astelle // Apr 24, 2008 at 5:13 am

  Samantha, you deserve more than that!! Are you still in contact with him? If so, cut him off, it is all BS. When you broke up with him over the phone, I am guessing he was “fine” with that?
  All the lies, so much to do…?

  He is not giving ME space to take care of myself, I am not the one he cared about, it was all about him, unless he gets desperate… bla, bla bla…
  No, he can’t suck me in anymore, I learned so much over the last few months and I am not going “there” anymore. I don’t want you to go there anymore either, just ignore him and you will feel better about yourself, give it time.

  Have you read NML’s book yet? If not, you really should. You will find a lot of answers and recognize” OMG, I did all that!! She is talking about me!!
  Have to also admit that my teenage daughter also read part of it and told me: Mom, I told you something is wrong in his head.

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