Nicole asks: I’m 24 and this Mr Unavailable and I have been involved with each other for almost 6 years now. We were together once upon a time and we broke up because he cheated on me. Like a fool I stuck around thinking that we could make it work and he kept telling me that he wasn’t ready for a relationship right now so I thought that I would just give him some time. We never stopped doing relationship things, we just had no title.

Its been almost 4 years later and still no relationship title but just found out that he is in a relationship with someone else. This has happened twice. He is a Mr Unavailable and I know it. He even told me that just because he is in a relationship with her doesn’t mean that he is going to change (still mess around).

I have two questions that I should not even be worried about but I want to know: 1) Why has he been telling me that he doesn’t want a relationship but has got in one with someone else? 2) Why would he get in this relationship already knowing his intentions for her?

I should add that he said the reason he keeps me around is because he wants to be with me when he is ready to truely commit to someone. Mr Unavailable!

I am sorry to hear of what has happened and certainly one of the best things that you can do is to distance yourself from this man and stop pursuing him and instead work on grieving the loss of the ‘relationship’ and accepting that it’s over. And there is a reason why I make a point of saying ‘pursuing’, because you are the one who has kept this ‘relationship’ going while he is crept behind for the ride enjoying the fringe benefits.

But to answer your key questions first:

The reality is that he didn’t and doesn’t want a relationship with you.

That’s not to say that he is going to be any better to this new woman, but for most of the 6 years you’ve been involved with this man, in one way or another, he has communicated that he does not want to be in this relationship and has very little regard or respect for you. He started out by trying to extricate himself out of the relationship by cheating and being caught. You decided to give him another chance, in spite of the fact that he told you directly that he didn’t want a relationship. You thought it would be a matter of time but it was also about thinking you knew better and not wanting to ‘give up’ after expending your emotional energy – effectively, it’s like making the blind decision to stick at the relationship irrespective of whatever takes place.

He has got into a relationship with someone else because he’s not in a relationship with you, and has learned that regardless of how poorly he behaves, you’ll be there anyway.

How do I know this? Because this is the second time that he has started up a relationship with someone else which means that you have already taught him that it’s OK for him to step out because you will keep holding out for the dream.

You are betting on a potential that doesn’t exist because this disrespectful man has mentioned to you that when he wants to be in a relationship, it will be with you. What you haven’t considered is that that time may never come so you’re betting on a wing and a prayer rather than looking at the consistent behaviour of the man in the past and in the present to draw a conclusion about how he is likely to behave.

Does it really matter why he has got involved with someone else? Shouldn’t the fact that he is involved with someone else be like an enormous alarm bell ringing?

Sometimes as women, we want to play Columbo and dig our way back through the relationship crime scene so that we can understand the what, why, where’s, when’s, and how’s of what has happened. The problem though when you do this in relationships is that we expend energy digging for supporting information when the obvious massive piece of evidence tells us more than we need to know.

We obsess about the finer details because we’re looking for reasons to stay invested and will also find reasons to blame ourselves for what has happened.

This is why it is important to have boundaries, an awareness of red flags and use your gut, judgement, and instincts. It means that if you have these things, when it’s crap, it’s crap; you’re not going to throw away your time and your self-esteem trying to understand why it’s crap because you know it’s crap.

You also asked why he’d get into this relationship knowing his intentions, i.e. he has no plans to change and is likely to continue to mess around.

You can turn this question around and ask: Why, when you know that a man can’t keep his pants on and is always looking over your shoulder trying to start up pseudo relationships elsewhere so he can mess up Yet Another Woman’s Life, do you still continue to be involved with him? You know his intentions too.

Why does any man (or person for that matter) continue to start up ‘relationships’ with people knowing damn well that they are incapable of actually being in a committed relationship and are likely to engage in behaviour that is counterproductive to any relationship succeeding?

Because they can. They overestimate the level of their interest and their capability of being ‘different’ because they are frequent users of the Reset Button, which is where they have an uncanny ability to erase all of the inconvenient details of their dalliances so that they can start afresh. In the ‘hot’ phase when they are pursuing their latest ‘target’, the excitement and desire created by the chase feed their illusion that things are different.

The moment that this new woman wants, needs, or expects more than he’s prepared to be wanted, needed, or expected from, he’ll lose interest and start playing around or creeping back up around you.

Let’s be real – the guy has an allergy to the truth and being decent. Letting new women know what he’s all about might actually scare them off before he’s had a chance to screw them over

You’re concerned about him being a Mr Unavailable and while that is certainly true, you need to address your own issues with emotional unavailability and understand your part in this. You’re not responsible for him being how he is – the guy was an assclown before you became involved, while you were involved, and will no doubt be long after you are (hopefully) out of his life – but you are responsible for the fact that you are still there, that you allow him to treat you badly, and you are so deeply entrenched in illusions that you haven’t got so much as a toe in reality.

From the moment he cheated and said that he wasn’t ready to be in a relationship and you decided he needed more time, it became clear that you were going to be one of those women who wasn’t going to listen and who would basically stick by his side.

You’ve been making decisions about this relationship in isolation. You’ve disregarded what he’s said and done and decided to stick with your own agenda and illusions and this has meant that you have been in a relationship without a ‘title’. The problem is that he told you what the status was – he didn’t want a relationship – and that means that you weren’t in a relationship.

This is the type of guy that decides that he has given you all the warnings and as you won’t listen and are so up for being disrespected, he’ll realise that you’re useful to keep in the background.

He’s passing time and you’re a stopgap, the Fallback Girl he keeps on ice when he’s run out of other options or just feels like messing with your life.

In the meantime, you accept a watered down version of a relationship, ie a relationship without a ‘title’, which was effectively like giving him free reign to take advantage.

This isn’t loyalty; it’s emotional laziness and self-abuse.

You’re being loyal to someone who can only be loyal to the concept of mistreating you. You’re treating him like you’re one and only while he is treating you like one of a number of options. Never allow yourself to be someone’s option.

You say that you guys do relationship things – you’d be amazed at the amount of women I hear from who thought that they were in a relationship because they had sex, made him their priority, did social stuff together, and felt like there was a connection. The guy unfortunately thought they were hanging out, keeping it casual, or even worse, friends with benefits.

You assume that because you’re doing ‘relationship stuff’ that it’s a ‘relationship’. He assumes that because he’s shown you that he’s not relationship material and has stated that he doesn’t want to be in one, that he’s hanging out and passing time.

The best thing you could do for yourself right now is to look, listen, and stop allowing this man to enjoy the trappings of a relationship without actually having to be in the relationship and let go. What he is doing is incredibly disrespectful to you but you are also being disrespectful to yourself by throwing yourself in the frontline of pain and refusing to get real.

Actions speak louder than words – someone who wants to be in a relationship with you, will be in a relationship with you. Someone who wants to pass time with you and wants to be assured of the benefits of your hope and illusions, will say what they need to, to get their needs met in the present and be assured of misguided loyalty in the future. You’re 24 – this guy is eating up your youth and if you don’t break the habit and get wise, you’ll be involved with same guy, different package and wondering where your life went. Let him go – there will always be women who will welcome guys like this with open arms and feed into their delusions – don’t continue to be one of those women.

Your thoughts?


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47 Responses to Reader Advice: If he doesn’t want a relationship, why is he with her, when he could be mistreating me instead?

  1. sam says:


  2. I am officially gone says:

    “He has got into a relationship with someone else because he’s not in a relationship with you, and has learned that regardless of how poorly he behaves, you’ll be there anyway.”

    This statement is it exactly…I feel for this girl I have been there. He is not exactly hiding though…he is making it pretty clear what he wants and does not want. She has chosen to stay…the question is why?

    There are many reasons we stay:
    I thought he would change
    I could not accept that I could be this wrong about a person
    Fooling myself into believing I could handle the situation.
    Thinking we had so much in common

    Guess what…none of these reasons worked for me and I he continued to treat me poorly. Eventually I learned the hard way to just walk away and not look back.

  3. MaryC says:

    …”and has learned that regardless of how poorly he behaves, you’ll be there anyway”. That was me to a tee, always there and always treated like a doormat.
    18months as the fall-back girl but NO MORE !!! 6months NC and it feels great to finally see my journey starting to make sense. No one no matter who they are in your life deserves your kindness, love and attention if they can’t respect you.

    Best advice I’ve gotten from this website is….”Never allow yourself to be someone’s option”. Every single time those old feelings for him creep back into my mind/heart I keep repeating that line till they go away.

    • Moving on in 2010 says:


      ‘Best advice I’ve gotten from this website is….”Never allow yourself to be someone’s option”. Every single time those old feelings for him creep back into my mind/heart I keep repeating that line till they go away.’

      This above statement is the mantra I need to keep repeating to myself. Even though I am getting stronger each day with NC for the last 3 1/2 months, there are those days/nights where douchebag ex-EUM crawls back into my head and I start to feel sad. I must keep telling myself that I deserve to be treated with respect and that he did nothing but make my life hell. I’ve got to stop thinking about the good times we had because the bad definitely outweighed the good.

  4. JJ says:

    I read the entire article on breaking up with your narrcissists; the traits; and so on and have to say that I was completely blown away.. It scared me literally to know that for a year I was fooling with a dangerous man and its crazy that when we first started dating that he went on about how he use to be a really bad man; fighting people; and going to jail and getting into alot of trouble ( living a rough life back in the day) but how he no longer lived that life; or was that bad person anymore.. Knowledge is power.. When you read you find truth to alot of things that you never thought you would.. And it talked about Rage being one of the traits in narcissts… Rage is what came out the last time that we spoke when he repeatedly called me a bitch..a fat bitch at that… and a size 12 highly qualifies as being fat so I’m like okay.. where did that come from. But somehow I guess when I called everything off and let him knew at the moment that I had found him out and even told him that he was a dam narcissts… (YES LADIES i DID) he almost went ballistic. It was like devil came out and all he needed was some HORNS!! But anyway a good relationship with a man such as this would never ever work anyway because they are FRAUDS.. deceitful and they simply do not feel anything..And last but not least…. I remember being at a function with him where there were alot of people attending.. We parked in the back but as the event was over he goes out right before me; gets in the car and drives it all the way around to the other side of the building and made me walk all the way around and by the time I had made it to the car he was furious…RAGE (Reverse psychology) when I should have been the one that was mad… I am sometimes angry at God for allowing such a man like this to even come into my life.. I know its over and to God be the Glory…. just me venting cause that’s what we women do..

    • I am officially gone says:

      “I am sometimes angry at God for allowing such a man like this to even come into my life..”

      I have questioned God about this as well…I realized that God does not want pain or confusion in my life. He did not bring this EUM or any of the others into my life. My belief about what I deserved brought these type of men. It took me a minute to understand this…this site has helped open my eyes alot.

    • Kim says:

      Hi, I found your reply really interesting. I’d like to read that Narcissist article, can you post the link ? Thank you in advance. X

  5. Dawn says:

    This is the one of the best damn things ever written! Absolutely 100% crystal clear. Thank you NML.

  6. Cathy J says:

    Yes, you are the fallback girl or as I like to say the Options Girl. You are an option – and not a great one.

    This article was like a sledgehammer – well done. Truth with love. He is not interested in a relationship with YOU.

    Get out – and don’t look back – RUN!!!

    You are exhibiting behaviours of a co-dependent – revolving your life around his issues. Stop it now and live your life.

    I strongly suggest doing some work on yourself – this could be life coaching, emotional blockage work – there are so many choices. Then imagine you are in a committed relationship with an amazing man who loves you – you are so able to love, now you just need to learn to love yourself first.

    Did I say RUN!!!!! as far out of this current situation as you can and CHOOSE TO LIVE YOUR LIFE TODAY!
    .-= Cathy J´s last blog ..Fairytale: Seeking Happily Ever After =-.

  7. Myrtle says:


    Clear. Concise. Hell hath no fury equal to a match between a smart self respecting woman and a assclown prankster boy.

    It seem the more educated I become about this subject and the more I trust my “assclown-o-mometer,” I seem to finally be attracting the right type of guys. I can’t believe I shed a tear over this guy (multiple tears that is)

    How strange it is when you start loving yourself, that you stop loving them.
    NML, You have impacted my life in a VERY positive way, and I haven’t even met you!

    Recovering assclown addict since 12/29/09

    • metsgirl says:

      “How strange it is when you start loving yourself, that you stop loving them”

      You are so right about this and I have said this to myself repeatedly (as I grow out of the dysfunction, of course). This is a great sign that you’re well on your way out of the BS!! I hope the best for you….you deserve it!!

      • Nilondoner says:

        I think we start loving ourselves when we start knowing ourselves. Getting to know myself was the best thing I’ve ever done. I’m on the right path. Not entirely there yet but definitely on my way

    • jojogirl says:

      Myrtle – hi-five!

      “Recovering assclown addict since 12/29/09”

      OMG! i am also a recovering addict from exactly this date! this was the last time i had any contact, and from Dec 29th forward, blocked him on my end so he couldn’t contact me online, blocked on my email chat, deleted all his numbers, and filter anything i might get from him to trash. he was my heroin, and i had to quit him cold turkey. the withdrawals have gotten easier – now i get physically nauseous when i think of HIM – how many women he was with, how he used me…. and in case any of you have any doubt that they change- they DON’T.
      and let’s not quote how Warren Beatty is a changed man. none of us are in Annette Bening’s shoes so we don’t know the REAL story.

      case in point: i heard that my EUM started dating another girl at work only to start sleeping around on her and brag about all his fake online profiles “just so he can get more chicks” – and i quote. he lies and says he’s a famous producer, director, photographer when in fact he’s noone famous he just happens to work in entertainment industry like me.

      i hear how he compares me to the women he goes out with to his friend (a guy i dated briefly) – no doubt still trying to emotionally manipulate me from a distance.

      he made me ride that train to crazy town until i finally jumped off to save my sanity.

      i am finally attracting “better options” for myself. i might not have met the “right one” yet but im happier than i’ve been in ages. reading this article was like i was thrust EXACTLY back to the sickening crazy place and i remember how i spent a year and half with daily anxiety attacks and depression because of him. i am FREE now, and its a blessing.

      who CARES why not you and “her” or multiple “hers” – the point is- if they are not treating you the way you want , we need the self esteem to walk on and not look back.

      does it still sting? yeah sometimes. but it gets better.
      do i still have revenge fantasies? hell yeah.
      do i feel lucky i’m out of it (not to mention healthy with no communicable diseases i could have gotten from him!) – and did i learn my lesson? HELL yeah.

      Jump off that crazy train!!!

      • myrtle says:

        Jojogirl, you rock! You go girl!

        Have you heard of the movie Gaslighting?
        Watch it.
        Talk about a man convincing a woman she’s gone to crazy town. Wow.

        You are right! They don’t change. ESPECIALLY, When they tell you, “but with you this time, it’s different.”
        Excuse the graphic connotation but….
        Now that I know the words that my assclown used to hook me, I call it verbal diarrea. It just runs and runs but has no substance and it’s full of s**t.
        Relationship histories should be looked at when starting with a new partner. My assclown hadn’t “loved” anyone for over a decade. That should have been my warning sign right there. It will be in the future. The only thing I can change is myself.
        : )
        Here’s to healthy US’s!!

  8. sho says:

    I’ve misread the “title” stuff in a few different ways but with EUM’s it matters very little.

    –With my long term EUM was quick to put a title on our relationship. I remember being surprised when he started to refer/introduce me as his girlfriend since I didn’t think he was acting in such a “boyfriend” manner and once he started calling me his girlfriend it made me more invested (even though I should have been paying attention to his actions, since he wasnt much of a boyfriend). He was basically very comfortable with calling me his girlfriend but just not committing with his actions whatsoever.

    –Another EUM (the last/epiphany one) mentioned past girlfriends to me basically in a way to reassure me that he was capable of forming relationships and not afraid of commitment, although later I found out he never really had “girlfriends” just 3-6 month relationships that were exclusive (sexually) which he just peaced out once the girl started to demand more from him (such as a title or more of investment) and you can guess how things ended with him for me. He was deathly afraid to use the word “girlfriend” when together but when meeting a new woman suddenly his past “pseudo-relationships” were suddenly “girlfriends” and just “failed relationships.” It is just his way of reassuring the new girl hes not just there for a bit of fun, which are his true intentions.

    In either way, the “titles” were just that and the actions of the men showed they weren’t looking for real relationships and just used the word girlfriend as a manipulative tool.

  9. nicole says:

    Thank you sooo much Natalie.. I needed to hear that. It has been so hard.

  10. janae says:

    I love this post. This is the same thing i went thru except i was in this type for 4 years….
    Here’s a liltle bit of history. I talked to this guy for 4 years. The whole time he was telling me he was not ready for a relationship because he just got out of relationship and so did .So I figured we could grow and connect together.. We became intimate, we hung out laughed and as nml says i thought we had a connection going and i thought he would eventually was going to ask me out… Well last year in
    09 i notice things start to change and seemed like we talked and seen each other less, but because he just started his on business i thought that where his time was going… To make a long story short I found put that he has been dating someone for a whole year.. I will admit when i found out i became very depressed i cried everyday.. I was not understanding how this person i talked to , i am intimate with, is in a relationship for a year with someone but tells me he not ready for a relationship. It has been 5 months now and the sad part is that i broke no contact and called thinking we could be friends and guess what he is still with her and he started kissing me and i told him NO .. i demanded respect and i left… And as nml says they will cheat and still cheat… I’ve been there and is working on moving on…

  11. Posh says:

    So true I’ve been the same he was telling me he cant give me what I want all the time so finally stop contact been over 3months no contact and find out he has now moved in with his latest girlfriend after 2 months she own’s her own house while he still lived at home with his mum and dad when I was with him so think he has got a new victim to use good luck to her she will need it. Took me a while but finally seeing him for what he was just a user! he made my health really bad lost 2 stones in weight though the stress now can hopelfully get on with my life do think of him alot as he has moved in with her near were I live which doesn’t help but i’m being strong in no contact he is not worth it! I’m just mad at myself for letting him get to me so much when I know he is just not a nice person and I deserve better. Coming on here reading all the comments keeps me strong knowing I wasn’t the onnly one to be taken in by this type of man.

    • Moving on in 2010 says:


      I know exactly how you feel. My ex-EUM also told me that he couldn’t give me what I was looking for…He also affected my health and my work badly. I gained weight, couldn’t concentrate at my job, and isolated myself from friends and family. He moved away a few months ago and I can almost imagine him already with someone else. It’s hurtful, but at the same time, I’m glad that I’ve had this opportunity to move on.

  12. Rosanne says:

    As smart and successful women we will attract ALL sorts of men; it’s the kind of behaviour you are willing to accept that makes the difference.

    So be strong, stop taking crap, you deserve so much better!!


  13. veena says:

    Thanks for this article; I am due to see an eum tomorrow after a month break though I am not going because I have read loads in this time and have understood he is commitment pheobe and therefore does very dishonest things I stupidily fell in love with him. But its true if a man wants to be with you they will make the effort. I have decided to do something different for once and take back control I don’t need this guy and I don’t want to come across as needy; yes I want to be in loving relationship but I need to work on my boundaries first off. We as women have to take resposibility of our own self esteem and loving ourselves. This is not to say the guy I was with was completely to blame he betrayed me but I have just got to take responsibilty for my actions and forget about saving the world!! What do you all think? :) see my post seeing my eum on thurs…

  14. butterfly says:

    Wow, I did a double take when I read your letter – I was you ten years ago. I stayed with a guy for four years who told me he loved my personality, but not my looks, and who slept with other women despite the fact that we lived together and it felt like a relationship. He was my first boyfriend, and lay. We had some kind of intimacy going one, I felt intoxicated by him, or was it addiction? I was hooked. I tried to leave three times, but he broke down in tears and begged me to come back, each time. But one day he met another woman, said he could no longer be with me because they were dating, and wouldn’t acknowledge me in the street. That was that. Over the years, he treated each woman the same way he treated me, and yet he talked about me to them as if I was a goddess. I only know that because one of them tracked me down. I also met up with him after not seeing him for a decade, at his request. Guess what he did? Regalled me with tales of all the women he’d slept with, including the ones he’d slept with while he was with me a decade earlier, and bragged about how he was bedding his boss’s wife. He also told me about how he’d asserted his dominance in situations by beating men up – why he thought that would impress me is beyond me. Yet, he still had a magnetism that now repels me. I saw him objectively for the first time in my life and forgave myself for falling for him when I was still in my teens – how could I have known then what I do now? I never stood a chance! THESE MEN DON’T CHANGE. Know the signs, and run when you see them, don’t look back. And please, please, don’t waste your youth like I did: it’s not just the years that you spend with him you can’t get back, it’s the years afterwards spent rebuilding your self esteem. Good luck and best wishes, and yes, please read up on signs of Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

  15. veena says:

    How old are you? If you don’t mind me asking. My eum had not got over his marriage so was very obsessive about his ex wife and he would lie about all these women he had I guess he so insecure it was all about control for him he would ask me how I feel about him and then he would reject me!!! And say he doesn’t love or is love with me so in lots of conflict and I was an emotional punch bag!!! !
    It is not fair that he didn’t act more responsible but that is his something he will have to live with. And he is just using his baggage as a barrier or an excuse which is not healthy or admirable!!

  16. Nicole says:

    I did not mention in the letter that in spite of having this new girlfriend he is trying to keep doing the same things that we were doing before.. (sleeping together, talking everyday, “relationship things”) wow. I just dont understand what his point is. I know I have wasted sooo much time and I can’t seem to wrap my brain around it all right now. I him to leave me alone and move on and thats when he really breaks his neck to show me that he “loves me” (as he says). I guess blowing hot and cold air

  17. metsgirl says:

    NML said we “dig our way back through the relationship crime scene so that we can understand the what, why, where’s, when’s, and how’s of what has happened. ”

    I’ve learned that when I do this, I am wanting to understand what is wrong with ME that the a++clown doesn’t want ME. I’ve expected someone else to validate and define me. I never realized how completely dysfunctional my efforts were because I was focusing on the above whodunnit “crime scene” and didn’t realize that a crime scene indicates that something has actually died (and generally that means the illusion, I alone created, has died). The question is whether I’m willing to accept it and move on.

    The beautiful part is that I am starting to recognize when the illusions start to develop and then I deliberately pull way back and go back to “start” (if that’s what is required to grab hold of my sanity). Love the article NML….as always….you’re very insightful =)

  18. JJ says:


    Great point you made girl.. We should stop trying to dig our way back through the crime scene. I am on the road to recovery 3 weeks NC and in my mind I keep pondering the ifs; whys; and all I can remember is how terrible of a person that he really was and keep telling myself that its OFFICIALLY over and could never work… Even if he came back with an apology I wouldn’t be there to answer… So you are definitely right on that one.

    • metsgirl says:

      JJ – The recovery part is a struggle and I’m sure your aware that you’ll probably want to break NC several times through the process…..but you’re doing it and that’s the most important part!! I’m rooting for you in spirit. Hugs

  19. Kati says:

    your posts are really interesting and scary at the same time. i have been seeing a guy for eight months who really swept me off my feet with his good lucks, charm and great dates which got me really hooked. he quickly made it clear that i was the best thing in his world, beautiful, etc. there were a lot of red flags in the beginning, he talked a lot about his ex-girlfriends who were always in the wrong, one of them had a nervous breakdown and he said unfortunately a lot of the women he had dated were mentally sick. Great!
    in the back of my mind i thought that being with him was a bit of fun and i would dump him down the line if i felt he was being a total jerk….easier said than done!! i can now see how these women all ended up being obsessive, bulimic, depressed and worse still addicted to this guy!
    it’s strange but i still can’t let him go but despite the fact that he has been messing with my head i am holding on to the initial idea of him the lovely guy who swept me off my feet. i think i’m the one who needs to change to get out of this relationship x

  20. olderandwiser says:

    15 years Later…

    15 years ago in college I fell madly in love for a man who for three long years never acknowledeged I was his girlfriend to his peers (I was an undergrad and he was in business school). I told him I loved him and asked if he felt the same and he said “I love you but am not in love with you…” And what do I do??– I stay with him because I wanted to MAKE HIM FALL IN LOVE WITH ME. Of course, in the end he leaves me in the dust and I mourned this loss for years with endless tears and an eating disorder that took years to conquer.

    Now fast forward 15 years and he finds me (he hired a PI to track me down) and states he made a mistake and that he had left his wife and children because now he relaized I was the love of his life. Ridiculous isn’t it. And what do I see now– the same selfish man who I thought was the end all be all. But now with the wisdom of age, I see who he is and am so thankful I did not end up with this fool 15 years ago who would have made my life a living hell feeling less than adequate.

    For every woman out there who has a man that does not want her the way she wants him, trust me it is a blessing because he is not worth your energy—WALK AWAY there is so much better out there. Never spend your energy on a man who does not value you- he is not capable of being the man you want or need, ever.

    • Myrtle says:

      15 years later.

      I just finished my relationship with my high school sweetheart 15 years after our first relationship.
      We broke up because of distance the first time…or so I thought.
      I found out it’s because he wanted to sleep with the whole university.

      After four months of dating at age 32, I can still say the problems do not go away. If he made you walk on eggshells back then, it’s 10 times worse the older you get.

      Beware of the high school sweetheart syndrome. Unless you were separated because of distance and you both didn’t want the end, you were meant to separate.
      IE….A assclown is a assclown is a assclown.
      One of his favorite sayings…”It is what it is”
      No truer words have ever been spoken.
      : )
      Good for you for seeing the poop in the promises. Any man who leaves his wife for a relationship from years past has no concept of love, loyalty, and certainly will never be loyal to you.

  21. Raven H says:

    @olderandwiser – Sooo true. When I had “the conversation” with my ex. We agreed that he wasn’t into me the way I was with him. It hurt my ego to hear it, but I dropped him that very night.

  22. Raven H says:


    With my ex-eum we were clear that it was a relationship. Booked dates in advance, always in contact, cooked for me, there when I needed him.We actually got closer over the 6 months together. This is the kicker: He could not acknowledge (verbally) feelings for me. It was emotionally flat.I asked,”What do you like about me?” He turned it right back around. I answered and then he struggled to say anything about me.
    Later I thought back over the 6 months and he NEVER had anything to say about me or even asked about my business, life or future – simply wasn’t interested! Ha
    So watch out for emotions aren’t communicated either, he may be a great guy(ha) and just not really into you.

  23. JJ says:

    To Kim

    The article i read was Definitely read this… And the article also states that narcissts refrain from having sex with their mates… Sex became a big issue with us.. In the beginning of our year relationship sex was never a problem.. I couldn’t keep him off of me and then suddenly when his aggressiveness and rage started to slowly come out sex stopped.. There were numerous of days that we’d spent together that I’d want it and and him withholding it from me almost felt like something deranged or as a punishment. And I am an attractive young woman.. He is a few years older than me… But anyway when I read that narcissts don’t have sex with their significant others or mates (as a way to tease them) my mouth dropped because this is exactly how he treated me when it came to sex…. I was starting to wonder if he was gay; down low; and everything because when a man doesn’t want to get it up… better believe ain’t nothing wrong but something ain’t right!!

  24. JJ says:

    Also forgot to say that:

    Narcissts are also champs at verbal abuse.. Mine would try to dominate me with his words and control… He would constantly try to put me down and his jealousy showed. I come from a very well successful family where I am just blessed to have a few of the finer things in life. and he constantly always compared that he had to get this this and this to keep up with me(when in reality I didn’t care about the material things he had) cause none of it mattered. He bragged constantly about what trips he would take; his friends.. Narcissists lie about everything.. Can you imagine asking your mate for sex and he responds by saying girl you better learn how to masturbate.. How low is that? I went there cause as bad and cruel as it sounds that’s exactly what I dealt with and why I am glad its over… He taught me well is all i can say AND what to stay away from… Stupid assclowns like HIM!!

  25. Jamie says:

    This section of “When Mr. Right turns out to be Mr. Wrong”, an article written years ago by Roger Melton, resonates with me:

    “It is like you are a Coast Guard cutter and he is a drowning man. But he drowns in a peculiar way. Every time you pull him out of the turbulent sea, feed him warm tea and biscuits, wrap him in a comfy blanket and tell him everything is okay, he suddenly jumps overboard and starts pleading for help again. And no matter how many times you rush to the emotional rescue, he still keeps jumping back into trouble. It is this repeating, endlessly frustrating pattern which should confirm to you that you are involved with a Borderline Personality Disorder. No matter how effective you are at helping him, nothing is ever enough. No physical, financial or emotional assistance ever seems to make any lasting difference.

    It’s like pouring the best of your self into a galactic-sized Psychological Black Hole of bottomless emotional hunger. And if you keep pouring it in long enough, one-day you’ll fall right down that hole yourself.”

  26. JJ says:

    To Katie
    If they so mention anything about they’re past ex’s you best well forget about it and take it as a big Red Flag. My ex constantly talked about his ex.. and how bipolar she was.. I didn’t see that as a warning when I should have because him bringing her up should have been a clue to me that there were still a bunch of underlying issues that were going on with HIM… He told me about his ex; how screwed up her family was and so forth .. call it TMI(too much information).. and now we are no longer together and I wonder what the real story was.. He is the crazy bipolar psychotic narcissts and she probably left him… Talking about their ex girlfriends is a NO NO but a big YES… AND WARNING for you to RUN… EXIT and NEVER LOOK BACK!!

  27. JJ says:

    To JOJO girl

    Right on!! Jump off that train!! I did 3 weeks ago and am feeling better than ever… I have my dignity; my sanity; my self esteem; my happiness and everything that goes along with it .. When you stay stuck with loosers like MR. EUM narcissts you may as well just get ready to sink right along with them… cause they are only interested in one thing and that is bringing you down.. They are already unhappy with they’re own lives..

    • JJ2 says:

      JJ’s comment: When you stay stuck with losers like MR. EUM narcissts you may as well just get ready to sink right along with them… cause they are only interested in one thing and that is bringing you down.. They are already unhappy with they’re own lives..

      “Sink” is the operative word. They are unhappy. They spiral you down, but then they turn around and claim YOU are bringing THEM down.

      What made me finally leave my EUM was when I said to myself: “If I stay around this guy one more minute, I’m going to need anti-depressants.”

  28. Michelanne says:

    I had an ex who constantly refused sex with me…for him, it was all about power. The person who refuses has more power…HE got to decide when we had sex, I didn’t. He’d rather have power than pleasure.

    I think some of these assclowns have the mentality of toddlers…thinking of a two-year old screaming “NO
    NO NO!!!!!” Their fickleness is also toddle-like. A little kid may be screaming for a toy — at that moment, they want it more than anything. Then they get it, play with it a few minutes — and then he desperately wants something else. I think that when some of these idiot adults are trying to win us — they do want us very badly AT THAT MOMENT. But, like little children, what they want changes from second to second.

    • JJ2 says:

      Michelanne, WHOA! My EUM also stopped having sex with me. Claimed it was “low testosterone.” I didn’t buy it, even though the dude was in his 60’s. He also told me one of his ex girlfriends said he was a “control freak.” He claimed he wasn’t. Well, he was a “passive aggressive control freak.”

  29. Pushing.Thru says:

    Yup…. i hear that!
    Every conversation about the X – “She tried to control me!”
    When we spoke of his friends wives or gf’s – “She’s ok – kind of controlling”

    What is it that THEY do exactly???? Oh right – it’s emotional PUNISHMENT….. talk about controlling…

  30. JJ says:


    When they refuse SEX… beware because you have a NARCISSTS on hand.. Ain’t no curing them. You can have a body like HALLY Berry ….they wouldn’t care because they’re minds are so screwed.. This is an illness that there is no cure unless they get to the root of the problem and that is SELF!! My ex narcissts wouldn’t have sex with me.. but in the beginning I could not keep him off of me.. Maybe I should have noticed the other red flag when it took him nearly 2 to 3 months to give me my first KISS….

  31. JJ says:

    I tell ya ladies I know that I am blowing up with comments but this site and NML has really given me the strength to get through this.. I feel so good today that i am actually pushing through and staying NC.. 3 weeks this week… I am going to celebrate and reward myself!!

  32. Res Judicata says:

    When I first met and began dating my EUM, he spent a lot of time discussing his ex and children. At this early time, I interpreted this as a sign of stability and strength — here he was, an excellent husband but for marital difficulties, and a committed provider for the children. As time unfolded, he told me that his wife defaulted on the mortgage. Now, it seems like he either provided too little money for all expenses, or she decided to %%&$*$& him and his credit up by taking the default direction, both of which pointed to how negatively she felt about him and his alleged ability to provide. When this same clown freaked out because she found a new man who could father her children, and spent countless hours fretting about this, this should have been my second clue. My third clue should have been his unusual “attachment” to his mom — in his words: “[he] had attachments with his mom”. Add it all up, and you get an EUM anxious and ready to leave my state; return to his state; take up with someone else (and yes — his mom probably moved with him) and one very disappointed ex-girlfriend at this state.

    I should have listened to my friends, who said that he was clueless, and could not give me what I want, before I got badly burned.
    .-= Res Judicata´s last blog ..Reader Question: Do the sexual preferences & activities of Mr Unavailables indicate their feelings? =-.

  33. JJ says:

    Res Judicata

    When they begin speaking and constantly talking about their ex spouse; wife; or whatever rest assured that there are some deep underlying issues. My ex would talk about his ex wife from time to time.. I didn’t see this as a red flag in the beginning when I should have. Not a good sign… thats a clue…

    • JJ2 says:

      Same here. My EUM had been divorced 20 years. He lived with her two years before marrying her and being married for five years. He mentioned the “two years they lived together” a LOT, and always with fondness.

  34. ph2072 says:


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