Six months into my separation, I received an email from one of my best high school friends, a man whom I had not heard from in 8 years except for occasional holiday cards. It was a basic email to ask how I was doing but after a month of talking casually, I learned that he also was separated from his wife. We’ve always been able to talk freely and it was great to hear from him again, like we had never been out of contact. We hooked up once, 18 years ago. I wanted to date him then, but he chose to date someone else. Some blonde bimbo with a big jaw. However, this did not stop him from calling me up and complaining about her when things went sour.
He also called me a month before his wedding, saying he wasn’t sure he wanted to marry his now wife, blah blah blah. I still felt love for this man, and therefore chose to listen and offered moral support.
Fast forward to the present, we are now in similar situations, and once again got embroiled in a friendship that has very few boundaries. We were literally talking to each other every day, mostly via e-mail, as we live 4 hours apart.
We met up for drinks once and the attraction was palpable. It would have been easy for us to sleep together, but I was unwilling to screw up a 20 year friendship over an ill-timed attraction. If it was real, I figured it would be there after our divorces were final.
During this time, his estranged wife discovered a lump in her breast. When he went to pick up his boys, she was scared, and asked him to feel it. Immediately following this encounter, he called me to tell me about ‘the flood of emotions’ he felt touching her breast again and about her purple lace 38DD bra. This is when I realized how warped our relationship had become and flipped out. How normal can it be that I am the first person he thinks to call when he gets to cop a feel?
So, we had a come to Jesus talk. I told him I had no intention of being his ‘default girl’, the girl he never chooses, but the one he falls back on when he needs an ego boost. He said he was not in a position to date anyone, which I understand, as I am not either. However, when I asked him if we were in a different place if we would ‘consider’ dating me. He said he couldn’t answer the questions because we weren’t in a different place. So much for thinking he digs me but the timing is wrong. Now I am just pissed. He can call and e-mail me daily, flirt, make sexual comments, but won’t even consider dating me! So, I told him to go to hell and cut off contact.
But then he e-mailed to say the lump in his estranged wife’s breast was indeed cancer. Once again, I allowed myself to get sucked into listening. However, our contact is much less frequent. We e-mail or talk maybe once every two weeks. To be honest, our friendship blow-out was a good thing. It was a reality check for me. I realized he doesn’t love me and likely never will. Not having him as a distraction has actually freed me to put my focus where it needs to be, on grieving my marriage.
But sometimes I feel weak, allowing myself to be friends with him again. At some point one of us is going to start dating, and that’s going to be weird. I no longer feel the need to make him want me, and have stopped stroking his ego. I actually get pleasure from telling him when he’s being an assclown and immediately nip comments that are even slightly inappropriate. Personally, I don’t think he appreciates the new friend as much as the old one as I am no longer kissing his ass.
I keep telling myself ‘He doesn’t love you, he will never love you’. But it hasn’t completely sunk in.
So, this is my question. Should I chuck a 20 year friendship and cut this man off totally? How do I get to a place where I actually believe that just because he keeps returning to me doesn’t mean he loves me? I believe I am the best damned woman he will ever know, surely he will realize this at some point?”
NML says: This man is not your friend. You don’t have twenty years of friendship – you have twenty years of this guy treating you as his Fallback Girl (or as you cleverly referred to it, his ‘Default Girl’). He’s not returning to you because he’s in love with you, addicted to you, or can’t resist you. He’s returning to you because if there is one person he can rely on to massage his ego and be there for him when the chips are down, it is you. Twenty years is the period of time that you have known him dip in and out of your life.
I can see how you could end up thinking he might be seeing the light. Many moons ago he chose someone else over you and then had the barefaced cheek to call you up for a moan… Fast forward to the present day when that marriage is all but over and yet again he is making contact with you, and it’s easy to see how you have made the correlation between him returning back to your life and him being separated as a sign that after the trials and tribulations you have both been through, he may be realising you’re the one and you could both potentially live happily ever after. Er that would be a helllll NO!
This guy is a user and you are his Fallback Girl and if you are content to be treated and regarded in this way you NEED to be worried. When he found out that his wife had breast cancer, which is pretty damn serious, I expected you to say that he called you up to pour his heart out but instead it was to discuss what it felt like to touch her breasts. This guy’s a flipping joker!
You say you’re not ready to date but you are clearly hoping for this guy to be more than what he is being.
He says he is not ready to date but it’s not just that. This guy only wants to be with you for an ego boost, some no strings sex, and a shoulder to moan on. You’re not good enough to date whether that was twenty years ago or now, and the fact of the matter is that he will always find some excuse to keep you in the relegation zone. Whatever and whoever you’re competing with, until you accept that this guy has never been your friend but has got off on the benefits of having you loving him whilst not giving it back, you will always cater to the you from 18 years ago that felt slighted by the rejection of him choosing someone else.
You can’t right the wrongs from the past and bad enough that he rejected and used you when you were younger and not so wise to his antics, but don’t allow him to do it now in a time when your self-esteem will have taken a knock from your own marriage separation. It isn’t love that you feel. The emotions that you feel are as a result of the excitement and possibility that he might choose you this time. If you were in a more positive place and your ‘friendship’ with him didn’t have the negative history that it does, I doubt you’d be interested in him. He represents something elusive and don’t underestimate the impact of what happened 18 years ago on how you may perceive yourself and relationships.
For a start, open your eyes and recognise his behaviour for what it is. Remind yourself what he’s done and remind yourself of all of the negative things that you feel about yourself as a result of being involved with him and being pulled back and forth like a yo-yo. Realise that what you have with him isn’t friendship – It’s a long, drawn out sexual attraction and lust which has no substance. He materialises when the chips are down but he’s already on the sniff for someone who he can choose over you. The timing is never going to be right whether he is just separated or has been single for 5 years. He is user and he is using you and he is the one doing the majority of the gaining whilst you are mentally taking a knock. You need to time to heal from the separation and the best thing you could do is avoid knee jerking into a ‘relationship’ that will actually devalue you. Part of the reason why he seems so attractive is that he reminds you of a ‘you’ pre marriage. There is nostalgia and a residual hurt that has been around for a long time that you need to deal with and close the door on. Now as well as coping with the separation, you also need to cope with the hurt of what he has done.
The returning doesn’t mean that he loves you. It’s what he does with the return that makes the difference and he only returns when he needs something from you and he wants to have a bitch and a moan. You’ve exchanged one type of instability (what you had in your marriage) for another. This ‘friendship’ and ‘relationship’ is on his terms and I bet that if you called him with you needing something that he wouldn’t be there for you. It is good that you feel that you are “the best damned woman he will ever know” but your chucking good money – you – after a bad investment. HE doesn’t think you’re the best damned thing that’s happened to him because his actions and words reflect that. It’s not up to you to decide that you’re the best woman for him because if he doesn’t recognise, appreciate, and value you amongst all the other things that provide the good foundations of a relationship, it doesn’t mean a thing.
Your attraction to him which has lasted a hell of a long time says to me that you need to step back, focus, and nurture yourself. You must cut contact with him, suffer the short term pain, and find a way to move forward. You would be amazed at how taking some time out for you and getting to know yourself can have massive positive effects. You’re not throwing away a twenty year friendship – You’re saying goodbye to a man who has used the word ‘friendship’ to reap his short term fringe benefits – sex, ego boost, friendly ear to moan to – whilst he has impacted hugely on you in the long term. Cut him off – You don’t need to tell him he’s an assclown. You know it and that’s enough.
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Fallback Girl – It seems to me that you are busy burning bridges, without need. What you had was a friend, not a mate. Yet you react as if he were the man in your life.
As children and at school we are taught to ‘get along’. We play at dating classmates – one week we are at a movie, the next our friends don’t talk to her friends. Your friend from that time in your life fits into a different niche than your ex-husband – a kind of variable-level friendship.
Both of you have allowed that relationship to continue, at various levels, for much of your lives. As any friend, there will be sharings and advice, late night stories and dreams. And spats.
Then your friend discussed an intimate contact (check for cancer??) with his ex-wife, and you take it jealously. Without even dating the guy, you accuse him of cheating. Remember – this is a long time friend, not your ex–husband – he doesn’t deserve the anger you have for another, and he does deserve a friend’s support, first.
The question about whether he would have dated you was unfair. Women are smarter than men – women can discuss emotions intelligently, men can only grunt and poke. What his answer to me sounded more like – honesty. So he refused to make a promise – I am sure he expected as surely as I do – that his answer would be used against him in the future. As I say, an honest expression of his feelings at the time you asked the question, and respect that his friend would accept his answer. Only you blew up and decided he is stringing you along.
Neither one of you are in the midst of picking a life partner. You seem to be clinging to this guy, instead of dealing with your anger from your past (and projecting it onto those around you). You need to leave him be, focus on your own needs.
The longer you lean on your friend, the longer you will be unavailable to meet a suitable life partner. And the longer you will appear unavailable to likely prospects. Treat as the friend he has been for much of your life, but keep the intimate stuff for a partner, a life mate.
Oh, and my sympathy for him and his ex-wife, as they deal with her cancer and the impact on their lives.
Erm, Brad, are you reading the same story *I’m* reading? He starts up this intense relationship, then makes up some story about his wife having breast cancer (and trust me, these guys can’t feel normal emotions, so they need to create SOME drama – a sick child, a sick wife).
Now, if that were TRUE, what would he have told a friend? About how confused he felt, how even though he was leaving his wife, he had loved her, she was the mother of his children, and now she might have cancer, he’s not sure what to do.
If he had done *that*, Brad, I might agree with you. What tells me he’s lying is this:
“Immediately following this encounter, he called me to tell me about “the flood of emotions†he felt touching her breast again and about her purple lace 38DD bra.”
BASICALLY, HE’S GETTING A VICARIOUS THRILL OUT OF TELLING HER HE COPPED A FEEL WITH HIS EX. HE’S TALKING ABOUT HIS WIFE’S LACY BRA, FOR F***’S SAKE. If his wife really might have cancer, he wouldn’t have said that.
And I’m sorry, she ASKED him to feel it? That’s what doctors are for. I’ve got a bridge in Brooklyn to sell you, mate.
And any man that feels the need to describe his sexual contact with his exes to you in detail is a sadist, full stop. He’s pushing your buttons to get a reaction, because it’s the only way he knows how to make an emotional connection – he’s incapable of connecting normally.
Basically, ‘Default girl’, he wanted the chase. Once he thought he had you again, he found a way out.
Run, please – take care of yourself, and you’ll find someone who’ll love you the way you deserve to be loved.
May he be unhappy alone.
Iz xx
Izzy, I think we are reading the same story. We both see an angry woman that wants to be loved. Two people that have had an ongoing conversation-level relationship for 20 years found themselves vulnerable after their marriages break up.
I think ‘Default Girl’ has enough anger in her life – she needs to see opportunities, not rehash the past. I consider her ‘if we were in a different place would you consider .. ‘ question to be quite unfair – and as inappropriate as the color of his ex-wife’s clothes. Each was inappropriate for the same reason – it was too intimate for the level of relationship. Because all they have are penpals at best, or schoolmates – locker buddies.
I think we agree that the best thing would be for ‘Default Girl’ to move on. You and NML find the guy to be a villain, I don’t think that is necessarily so. I do think that if she blames the guy for being a schmuck, she *adds* to the anger she has about her divorce – and will make recovering that much more difficult.
And if ‘Default Girl’, despite what she says, wants a man to herself – she she start by looking at men without a pending divorce, current girlfriend, etc. How could she afford the time to spend messaging, etc., if she wasn’t in the process of evaluating him to be a mate? And what is she thinking, trying to latch onto a guy that isn’t free of his marriage?
Sorry, it just seems to me that a lot of mistakes were made here – but they were all very minor mistakes. A bit of understanding, a bit of forgiveness and they can all walk away happy. But they do all still need to walk away.
Hey, Brad,
I wish I had your faith in humanity – but I don’t, so we’ll have to agree to disagree.
Personally, I don’t think telling someone you’re getting close to about touching your ex’s breast and describing her lingerie is appropriate behaviour – and it certainly doesn’t qualify as a minor mistake in my book – something like that is calculated to hurt. And it certainly doesn’t fit the ‘she might have cancer’ scenario. It fits the adolescent, anything for titillation scenario.
As for her having too much anger in her life – in some ways, she doesn’t have enough healthy anger in her life – or she’d be able to set boundaries. Anger isn’t a bad thing – it’s like pain, it tells you something is wrong. She needs to listen to it and act on it.
As for understanding and forgiveness, the first will tell her that he never meant to have her in his life. The second will come only after she’s worked through the anger and pain that has been left behind. You can’t go straight to sweetness and light without going through the darkness first.
I know you see them as minor mistakes – but even a lot of minor mistakes add up to one huge mistake. And someone is hurt.
Yes, they all need to walk away, on that I agree. But it’s not going to be a happy ending.
She needs to walk away *whole*, even though happiness may be a while in coming.
Iz x
I hear both arguments. The thing is, whether this guy is good or bad is not the main issue. If the relationship makes you suffer, if you feel you want more than this guy will ever be able to provide, you need to take time off – at least until you have found strength and happiness within yourself.
It sounds to me as though this man never saw Default Girl in a romantic way at all. From his point of view, she is an old friend, someone he can talk to about anything and everything, even to the point of sharing his inappropriate feelings about his ex-wife. There is no reason given here to suggest he did that out of sadism, he probably just felt safe telling her because they have known each other for so long,.
It’s a mistake to assume that other people intend to make us feel the way we do – that is rarely the case – we have to be responsible for our own feelings not project them onto other people. He had no idea she would be upset, because she is the one with the secret emotions, which she never told him about till the ‘come to jesus’ talk. If she can’t accept that this is simply a longstanding friendship – no more, no less – then she should definitely keep her distance.
The problem she has with believing that he doesn’t love her isn’t because of the way he behaves, but because she has spent so much time convincing herself that the two of them are ‘meant’ to be together. So now she has to un-convince herself.
I agree with NML’s advice in practical terms, but I think she is not helping Default Girl by implying that the problem was caused by the man being selfish, rather than by her romantic fantasy.
The bottom line is that, if Default Girl doesn’t recognize what she has been doing, she is very likely to do it again in future. Alternatively, if she feels convinced that she has been the victim of someone else being selfish and manipulative, she will be fearful and suspicious of other people in future. That is why I think it is a mistake for NML to soft-pedal on this.
(Sorry – long post – and a bit garbled because it is late at night. Oh, and despite disagreeing with you about this one, NML, I really love your blog!)
Why would anyone want to hang on to a so called friendship that is so obviously painful? You being the best damn woman he knows means nothing…if somebody doesn’t want to be with you romantically you can’t force it. You energy is better spent taking care of yourself. Change your phone number and email how can you cut off contact if he can still reach you or better yet tell him to stop contacting you. Stop worrying about his feelings and start worrying about yours. It galls me that we women care more about our a**hole unavailable men feelings more than our own. Feel free to dodge phone calls, ignore him, and disappear because if another woman they thought was better came along to cater to them they’d do just that to us. If he needs a shoulder to lean on direct him to a cancer support group. He will get better help there and you won’t end up emotionally drained. You’re angry…that’s good… use that energy to fuel your liberation from this man. If he cares and is a true friend he will respect your wishes and leave you alone. Please stop loving this man and start loving yourself. Goodluck
Have to agree that she needs to click those heels and walk away. You can’t blame men for what OW/Mistresses choose to do … even in this scenario.
If we have the means of making a decision to have sex with someone, we have the means and the brains to WALK from pain and angst.
If a relationship is causing so much torture, emotion pain et al … why stick with it, or consider sticking with it ?? That’s not a relationship, that’s self-inflicted misery.
Gia