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One of the questions we’re often faced with in new relationships of all kinds is, Is this OK? As in, is what they’re saying/doing or how I’m feeling/thinking about it OK? We ask this question because we’re experiencing discomfort, which is our cue to be more boundaried, which some of us find just as hard to do with new people as we do with more familiar folk, sometimes even more so.
Let’s be real: we don’t make new friends or in fact new relationships full stop, with quite the ease that we did when we were younger and for some of us, it’s never been easy. For instance, a significant portion of the BR tribe that I’ve met or conversed with have traumatic experiences of friendship that still influence their self-esteem as well as their confidence in friendships today. I’ve come across women who don’t trust any women, men and women who don’t seem to realise that their ‘best friend’ is their tormenter, people who have given up on friendship altogether and experience grief and loneliness, and people who are stuck in a rut with their high school circle of friends.
You haven’t divulged the ins and outs of what happened while camping but that’s neither here nor there: She recounted the story in such a way that you felt sufficiently embarrassed and as if your character was being cast in a certain light so that your friend could either enhance her reputation in this social circle or so that she could distract from herself by cutting you down.
As it’s a new friendship, you not only don’t have an established pattern on which to draw wider inferences about her overall character, motives or even backstory, but when she behaves in this manner amongst other people who are new to you, it speaks to that base fear of looking ‘the fool’ and ‘uncool’ amongst peers who we want to impress or at the very least, fit in with.
Friendship plays an important role in our sense of belonging and security. While we might have family who we feel that we can express our innermost feelings and thoughts with, friendships do represent the family we would choose for ourselves, if we have the self-knowledge, self-awareness and self-esteem to do so of course.
What strikes me in your story, Evelyn, is that this relatively new friend behaves in a manner that has the potential to significantly impact not just on the dynamic of the friendship but also your self-image, if you allow her. Now you could take enemy binoculars and draw the conclusion that she’s out to destroy you and even see her behaviour as a reflection of you, or you through compassionate binoculars you could see it for what it is:
Insecurity.
It is annoying, it might be pretty damn rude in some instances and it’s not right for you to be the butt of her jokes or the one she throws under a bus to bolster herself, but see what’s going on here so that you can 1) handle her but also so that 2) you don’t allow experiences like this to colour your view of friendships in general.
Your friend behaves in this way because she lacks confidence but is also on some level threatened by aspects of you. She might have a scarcity mindset where she thinks that there’s only a tiny bucket of men that she has to fight off every woman to get. She might fear that people will find you more interesting/attractive/intelligent etc than her.
There is of course an irony in this story and the pattern of behaviour: you are so concerned with looking like a “bad person” and “inconsiderate” that it hasn’t necessarily occurred to you that if anyone is looking like the “bad person” or certainly erring on the shady and inconsiderate side, it’s your “new(ish) friend”. You’re not the only one witnessing her insecure behaviour and others will also be wary of her.
Cutting her off is of course an option but it’s not the only one or it certainly doesn’t have to be the next step.
Sometimes cutting people off is seen as the safer alternative to the vulnerability and intimacy of boundaries. We see it as the lesser of two evils when boundaries are in fact healthy, necessary and liberating. Sure, cutting people off might give you an initial satisfaction but if you end up in another situation like this, how has you giving the chop resolved anything?
This experience is calling on you to do two things:
- Own yourself so that in that surety about who you are and your intentions and motivations, no one can come along and make you feel as if your character is being called into question.
- Have the right boundaries for the situation. This is covered off in part by the first task because you’ll have that clear line between you and her but you also need to nip this issue in the bud and ensure that you are not directly or inadvertently playing the background role.
Is there anyone else that brings up similar feelings for you? Who else needs to be the centre of attention at all costs? Who have you felt as if you have to dim your light in order to feel safe? Who has tried to scapegoat you? This will help you identify whether there’s anything else at play here but it will also give you the opportunity to resolve and heal anything similar from the past.
Do broach the subject with her, not because she will necessarily amend her behaviour (although she might) but because it’s the boundaried thing to do.
“I’ve noticed on a few occasions, especially when we’re around a group of men that you make comments that have given me the impression that you have an issue with me. For example, ________________________________”, and then give no more than 3 specific and brief examples that illustrate the issue. “As we haven’t known each other for that long, I’m sure you can appreciate how discomforting this is. When you make comments like you did about the camping, I feel very embarrassed but also hurt because it feels to me that you’re trying to communicate that I’m an inconsiderate person. I’m broaching this subject with you because it’s important for me to feel comfortable in my friendships and I don’t like feeling guarded, but also because I want to try to understand where you’re coming from. If I have done something, I would much prefer that you say this directly to me rather than communicate it via these comments in a group”.
Find out if she has something going on with her but also don’t tell her what her opinion is of you—let her tell you what’s behind her own behaviour. She’s either going to confirm what you already think, deny it, or tell you the actual motives for her behaviour.
The reason why I have suggested you approach it as above is because it’s very possible that despite how obvious it is to you or others, her insecurity-led behaviour may not be something she’s aware of. Some people aren’t aware of how their jealousy, insecurity, envy or resentment manifests itself but when you paint a picture with facts rather than purely your emotions, they can see things from your standpoint.
If she’s unwilling to discuss or apologise, I would reconsider your friendship and seek to distance yourself.
Friends don’t try to screw you, screw with your head, or screw you over.
Friendship is a mutual relationship between friends so if this new friendship is reliant on you being a bit-part player, it’s not a friendship and you’re free to make the gains by letting it go.
Have you had a friend who seems to enjoy putting you down or stirring things up? Do you have a friend who lets their insecurity get the better of them? What would you do?
Each Wednesday, I help a reader to solve a dilemma. To submit a question, please email advicewednesdayAT baggagereclaim.com. If you would prefer your question to be featured on the podcast, drop a line to podcast AT baggagereclaim.com. Keep questions below 200 words.
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I disagree. Do not approach her, and that sort of explanation puts you in ‘women who talk too much’ territory. ‘listen I need to talk to you. See that thing you said, that thing about the camping trip that just made me feel…’ ‘Oh that was a joke! cant you take a joke?’…’yeah but I felt like with other people..’ ‘you’re so sensitive! I didn’t mean to hurt you, if I hurt you I’m so sorry, but I think you’re being critical and a bit aggressive’ …and on it goes.
It also shows your friend that what she said hurt you. Now, first possibility – she wanted to get you in some way. She’s insecure, she likes drama, etc. So now she knows she succeeded and she has your number. No one that you distrust should have your number. Thats giving them power over your vulnerabilities and setting yourself up for more hurt. Second possibility, she’s an average self aware person like most of us but for whatever reason (most likely her own insecurity again) she told a story that made you look bad. She threw you under the bus for her own reasons. If you tell her she hurt you, now she feels like the bad guy. She will NOT own up to this, no one likes to own up to their mistakes. There is no point in calling people out on things and as you already have and it didn’t work. I’ll put it another way – call people out only as an experiment when you no longer care how the relationship will work out. Do not call people out as a way to change their behavior. It is a BR maxim that you can never get someone else to change their behavior. I called out a friend but I had decided by that time based on her truly awful behavior that there was no point being friends. I thought hard – I thought this person contradicts everything I say. If i tell her she hurt me, she will contradict that. She didn’t hurt me through some chance remark but by a concerted effort over a number of months. The loss is hers since I’m a good friend.
There was a time in my life when my life was full of mean girls. I tried talking and it never worked. Now I cut them out. I have great friends, that I have known for 15-20 years and they would not throw me under the bus for anything. I have friends I know a year or two and they repeatedly show me they’re not trustworthy. When people show you who they are, see it.
OR – hang out with her, you need social life. But do not think you have some deep friendship happening here. She’s shown you that she’s not trustworthy. Maybe even maybe she’s just the best person in the world and its you that is too insecure to deal – so be it, thats your reality that certain people make you uncomfortable. It doesn’t have to be TRUE in some deep sense. Why should you keep putting yourself in situations that make you feel bad about yourself?
I couldn’t agree more.
Couldn’t agree more!!
I agree to the hundredth power! I told a “friend” once, while complaining about my job, that I didn’t feel I was getting paid what I was worth. This friend threw this in my face at every chance he got, and every time he said it I had to feel lousy and shi**y because it hurt me so much. I regretted saying it so many times, he got to use it and it kept me feeling crappy every single day. I had to get out of the friendship, which was no friendship at all, now that I look back on it. That sort of thing does chip away at you, but it steals your joy. And the other person knows 100% what he is doing to you, and ENJOYING IT!!!!! Best believe that bit.
Tell her how she made you feel and if she stops doing it then give her a last chance. If she does it again then she doesn’t care about your feelings. Stay away then. You might have guilt feelings about it but it’s okay. Ignore those feelings. Setting boundaries is a hard process when you’re not used to doing it but stay firm; it will get better over time. Don’t let anyone walk all over your feelings.
After establishing boundaries, I have found that some ‘friends’ don’t like the new me. That’s on them, not me. I will not waste any more time trying to ‘win over’ people who aren’t worth my time. The clarity of boundaries is amazing. Instantly you see who’s in and who’s out. I have cut a couple people out and I do not miss them at all. Shouldn’t have been traveling down a one-way street to begin with.
Diane, I’ve found that too since I’ve learned what boundaries are, and how to establish them. It certainly sorts the chaff from the hay, so to speak. But what a relief to finally be free of those people who don’t give back! Good for you – I put up with those one-way friendships for too long as well…
Evelyn,
I once went to college with a woman who did this. It happened at least a couple times. I was confused as to what to do about it; it seemed rather bizarre. Well, I finally received my answer as to how to handle her words: Not long after painting me in a bad light, I was revolted when I heard her repeatedly use racial slurs in reference to others. I asked her to not speak this way, she looked me dead in the eye and said “no”, then repeated racial slurs.
Haven’t spoken to her in over a year. She near harassed me when I stopped talking to her, but I kept steadfast ignoring her calls.
Don’t minimize nor deny your feelings and pay attention.
Sup Nation,
I’ve been told that us Mermaids are very intuitive. I just recently broke up with a group of friend girls. There were seven of us and We were…I thought, close. We’ve vacationed together, seen our children grow up, weddings, cried together….everything. This year has been trying for all of us. From sickness and surgeries to the break up of marriages and a couple long term relationships. Lately, I feel like I’ve been going through a major change in my life, but not without including and needing the support of my girls. It’s seems all of them were there except one, in which I had hoped to confide in especially. And I reached out to her and told this. She’s a Capricorn and going through some things in her marriage. I’ve cried with her, supported and encouraged her. When the time came for her to be there for me, she was a no show. But, she was there for each and everyone one else, and they were posting pics of themselves being out, eating lunch and having drinks. I’ve been home for a lil over a month, but was somehow over looked by them (3) to join in. I felt some kind of way, but I kept it to myself. We’re all in a group chat. So I decided to take a break from the chat so that I could process what was going on and not react negatively to what I was feeling. She left the chat for awhile, but recently returned herself and I was noticing that on the chat, she was corresponding with everyone else but me. So this past Sunday, I opted out of going to a cake tasting for a wedding with them. After seeing them out and doing the mannequin..challenge that she posted and tagged them all in except me, I was done. Mind you at this point, I’m still not on the chat. And then I saw her message, “I love you guys!” At that point I was done! Someone later added me back on the chat, but, me being me, I messaged, “I’m not sure who added me back on the chat, but I don’t do fake!” And took myself back off. At that point I messaged her and told her that she hadn’t had two words for me in over a month. I kinda apologized to the other ladies because they were keeping in constant contact and checking on me regularly, but…somehow, I felt that they either knew something or had a hand in the reason she had been avoiding seemingly avoiding me. Her response to me was, “I’m sorry you feel that way, but after what you posted on the chat, I’ll just keep being fake! GN!” WAS I BEING A TYPICAL MERMAID? IS IT POSSIBLE I WAS WRONG!
This was last night. As of today, only ONE of my so called girls have reached out to me.
As of today, I sent an apology letter to ALL the ladies
Gm ladies!
Let me start by saying…I sincerely apologize to all of you. I could not have asked for a more fantastic group of women to have ever been involved with. You guys have been very good to me. Phenomenal friends!
I could go on for days about everything I’ve been dealing with, but….it does not matter There was no excuse for my behavior. This battle that I’m battling right now, is a whole lot bigger than me, and no one other than myself has created it. It’s nothing I’ve ever expected, even more so, nothing I’ve ever seen. So, to place blame on the people closest to me, my family, my friends, or anyone…would be easy, but nope, it’s ALL ME! Believe and trust me when I say, I AM NOT sending this message for any sympathy, understanding, forgiveness, NONE OF THAT AT ALL!!!! I just plain ole…. “APOLOGIZE!” I was MEAN, SELFISH, RUDE, DISRESPECTFUL and just PETTY! No one is responsible for me. Who am I that I feel I can demand that any person give me attention aside from anyone else, and why do I care if they do or not!? NO EXCUSE! Projecting anger, frustration, and or disappointment can be very dangerous, because often times, innocent people are blamed, abused, and suffer for something they have no involvement in. So…NO EXCUSES!
And Mo, I especially apologize to you because You OWE ME ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!
Therefore, I have decided that separating myself from the sisterhood is for the best.
With that, I send my love and appreciation, and wish you ALL, Peace and SPECIAL Blessings!
Each lady respond except her. She also blocked me on FB
Evelyn, I was in the same situation. Insecurity does indeed play a HUGE role in these situations. Mine was a long-term friendship where I failed to see the warning signs: nasty comments about others, the subtle put-downs, the trying to make me look bad in front of others. It all came to a head when things really started to gel in my life. The final straw happened when I bought a new house and met my boyfriend. She was not happy for me. At. All. I thought, “She’s married and has a house, why wouldn’t she want the same for me?” and then I realized that some people live by “No one can have anything that I perceive to be better than what I have. I have to think I’m doing better than them or I can’t be a friend.”
In your case, since this is a new friendship, I’d consider edging away from her. Someone who takes their insecurity/competitive/garden variety jerkiness issues out on you isn’t going to be there for you in any real way. Sorry you had to deal with this and I’m sure you’ll meet lots of genuine friends before you know it!
The same thing happened to me, Natasha, around the time my grandmother left me some money. A long-time friend’s put-downs and nastiness really came to a head, when I finally wrote her a letter about it, and said I no longer wished to remain friends. It was a long time coming, but I’ve had a few friends like that – because of my own lack of self-esteem and healthy boundaries (or any boundaries). Another friend was set to inherit a huge fortune, yet she begrudged me my small one-bedroom house and a new car… Some people are just miserable, and misery breeds contempt. I let her go as well, and feel much lighter without their baggage.
Completely agree and good for you for telling them, “girl, bye.”! That’s especially egregious because it involved the loss of your grandmother. Yeesh. I’m so sorry you had to deal with that. The same ex-friend I mentioned asked me how much my grandfather left me when he died and, when I declined to answer, literally said, “Well, it’s not $X is it?!” Considering he and I were very close, you’d think her concern would be how I was feeling. I can’t imagine the headspace someone has to be in to say, “I don’t want good things for my friends.” As nasty as they can be, I pity people like that, because it has to be a sad way to live.
I pity them too now, Natasha – as you say, it must be an awful head space to be in… And I adored my grandmother, which those ‘friends’ knew, so it made it seem really mean and petty. My mother had died only two years prior to Grandma as well, so… Not nice…
Natasha and Cindy, I do think it came from the scarcity mindset and jealousy. I think you’re right, she didn’t want me to have nice things, or be perceived to better than what she had. It was all about her.
She also started talking about others and often making comparisons.
Evelyn, if she’s talking about you in that way, you can be sure she’ll do it with others as well – probably other women she’s comparing herself to, would that be right? Sad, hey? You can do better in the friend department, I think. I wish you all the best 🙂
Yes, you’re right, Cindy. I’m sure she does it with everyone. That’s who she is. It’s disappointing. I agree, I can do way better in the friends department. I’d rather be alone than with someone like that. Have you found that you are making better friends now?
Thank you, I wish you all the best too!
My mother does this; last time she did it, I just told that wasn’t the truth & she tried to make a joke out of it. I told her she’s like everyone else who doesn’t want to take responsibility for what is their fault. After ten years of bad behavior …she was never a interested in being a good mother emotionally … but the last ten years she has become a LIAR and has gaslighted me, so I feel I have nothing to lose with her by just laying it right on the table when she does it. I couldn’t do that right away; it took this long to get better at confronting her. Sometimes I enlist the help of others: letting them know her latest drama she created, so they know my side. I changed my will, I let my relatives & durable power of attorney know that she lies and I removed her from having any power over me in decision-making that would benefit her. I no longer help her keep the nice public mask intact & then let her treat me like crap in private without calling her on it. She treats our mother-daughter relationship so casually, as if it is the same as all her other relationships — and she only has one kid. Two weeks ago I actually asked her if she knows how to have a relationship with a daughter, and I added that I don’t think she does. A few years ago before I nipped these things in the bud, I flat out told her she needs to see a psychiatrist when her lies were so bad, she couldn’t defend herself. Se gets better for awhile, but the monster is always there. I have accepted that she cannot mother properly in my head, but that acceptance doesn’t stop the need in my heart to keep wanting a warm, loving mother. I try to talk to her less because she’s like trying to snuggle up to barbed wire.
I *got real* about shady friends (and relatives) more than two years ago. If a new friend, or someone I’ve know a long time but just noticed that they act like I am “less than them” around others, they have to go.
My older sister is a social climber who used to love to comb through my friends and poach the ones she thought measured up to her high standards. By poach, I mean she’d start to charm her way into their lives until she knew them well enough to start talking shit about me.
My true friends saw what she was doing and told me about it, then they told her off and dumped her.
Some ‘friends’ agreed with her, and I was replaced by my sister. I was always too in awe of my sister to confront her about it.
Not anymore.
I threw her out my life in 2014, after I told her by e-mail I needed a break for a month or so. She e-replied by calling me “exhaustingly needy” and upped it to a six month break.
The six months without drama felt so nice, so after it was over we remained out of contact.
Recently, when her PC sent mine a virus, I finally had a reason to contact her. I told her she’d infected my PC with a worm, and to delete my e-mail address and those of anyone she’d ever met through me. I mentioned that viruses send themselves even when her PC is not turned on, so she had to delete my address, and I did not want her to embarrass me by infecting my friends’ PCs, either.
But that felt passive aggressive, so I followed by saying that while she was at it, she should also delete my friends’ and my home addresses and all of our phone numbers, because I’d had enough of her BS, and so had my friends. I finished by saying, “No more poaching, and never assume there is any exigent reason to contact me again. I don’t want to hear from you for any reason, ever again.”
I had to repeat myself because she’s a lawyer, always looking for loopholes.
With so-called friends, I may or may not have explained why they were out. It depended on a lot of things.
I may not be as popular as I thought I was these days, but the friends I have now are friends I trust and the relatives are people I love, who love me back.
I have one remaining nephew whom I discovered is a far-far-far rightwing evangelical who voted for a certain narcissistic presidential candidate that scares me and half the American public half to death.
I’m gay–and my nephew’s church hates a lot of people and things, especially queers.
I think he knows I’m no longer in his corner. Not every split needs a conversation.
In summary, life is too short to tolerate people who don’t consider us their equals, and show it.
I agree, Karen. I won’t put up with that ‘one-up, one-down’ behaviour from people anymore. I used to think that’s all I deserved, and my self-worth took a real beating, but I know better now. And I’m trying to become the person who is there for me… Until I can do that, I can’t expect it from anyone else.
I agree, it comes down to them not seeing us, treating us as their equals. I spent my life in the one-down position and like you, Cindy, I thought that’s what I deserved, what my place was. Glad to be seeing it for the lie that it is and taking better care of myself. Glad that you are too. Thanks for the support!
You’re welcome, Evelyn… I started to wonder if I put myself in the one-down position by trying to please people. Then, one day, I was right in the middle of doing it and I thought – ha!! gotcha!!! And I’ve stopped doing it. 🙂
Yes, I think that’s part of it, Cindy. If we come from that belief, we unconsciously put them on a pedestal and try to please them. I’ve started approaching every situation reminding myself that we are all equals and make sure to look out for my best interests, while keeping in mind theirs as well. 🙂
Karen, I understand where you coming from… I started NC with my only sister because I got really fed up with her endless involvement like how to look after my child, calling me names etc. I gave her so much love, money, time and it’s never enough! She has two grown up children who started to treat my like a piece of sh@t, no respect whatsoever! I finally stopped talking to them, and I hope for good, even it’s so hard to deal with it all, but I have to do it for mine and my daughter’s sake!
How you deal with your Mum, Karen? My Mum keep forcing me to understand “my sister’s feelings”..How about me ? What I have done to deserve this?! Who will think about me and my feelings ?!
My mom died in 2008, but she thought my sister was a bitch, too. She used to call her, “The Law.”
We’d be on the phone and Mom would say, “Uh oh, I better go.. The Law just pulled up.”
I just thought of a line from an early James Bond movie that applies to this thread about keeping an eye on potentially shady new friends.
“One time is happenstance. Twice is coincidence, but three times is enemy action.”
For my own purposes, I have altered that sentiment: Once is bad, twice and it’s over. This ain’t baseball, so don’t expect three strikes.
Hi Evwlyn,
Is it truly a friend?
Do you have to spent time together with a person who treats you like that? Who obviously is so unaware of her own shadows.
I have been in similar so called friendships,
I have tried hard to behave correctly, even though they never took that consideration,
One of the girls I haven’t seen for a few years, because I withdraw. But she contacted me and invited me to a show.
A few days before the appointment I felt very uneasy and unsecure and many old episodes popped up. I wondered if it was a good idea to even meet with her again.
But then it hit me I DON’T HAVE TO BE fFRIENDS WITH A PERSON WHO DOESN’T ACT LIKE ONE!
I told myself I will meet with her but if she haven’t changed, – if it doesn’t feel good, then there is no need to carry on with it.
But she had changed.
Another so called friend always had to say something that hurted me like; you look ugly today. It was like a smash in the face.
When I confronted her and explained how it made me feel, she just replied she ‘had noticed that I had that issue or problem’
I will rather be alone then spend time with girlfriends (or boyfriends) who doesn’t feel good about there own vulnerability
Hi Anne, No, she wasn’t a true friend and I knew it. I think you hit the nail on the head with the statement about not feeling good about their own vulnerability. I think she punishes other people for it.
This is so interesting… After reading Mr Unavailable, I put it to use with friends and family as well as men I’d known in my past. When we’re dating, it’s a good idea to remember that we’re just dating – they’re not our boyfriend/girlfriend until we know them, and they know us, and we realise we have a mutual and equal respect and understanding for each other. And also that we feel good in each other’s company.
However, with friendships, we call people we hardly know ‘friends’, when in reality, we’re also dating them and getting to know them. That would be an acquaintance, I suppose, but maybe more than that, but less than a friend. So what do we call them? By calling them our friend, I think we expect them to act like our friend – we might expect more of them than we should at that early stage. This is the time when we work out their character, just as we would with a ‘potential’ love interest. If their character and values don’t match our own, then it doesn’t develop into a friendship. And if they do match, and the friendship develops – well, lucky us!!!
I had a friend who I worked with years ago, and we went out and went to parties and had a great time together. But it one day dawned on me that I was inviting her to parties that other friends were throwing, while she was telling me about parties she’d been to. Yet, although I felt bad, and hurt that she hadn’t invited me, I never said anything. I was so unboundaried back then, and allowed others to treat me with contempt. Anyway, her behaviour became more and more hurtful, while I was picking her up and driving her around because she’d sold her car, and I think I was becoming more codependent as her behaviour worsened.
It came to a head some years later, when she’d invited me to see her Uni class choir sing at a Festival, and when I went, she was downright rude to me in front of her other friends. Why did she even invite me if she felt that way? They noticed it too, and looked at her in shock. I went home feeling so hurt and confused, and wrote her a letter asking what was going on, and that I felt I couldn’t be friends with her anymore.
She wrote back saying that was a bit drastic… Then she said that I’d tried to hit on a guy at work that she liked (like ten years previously! Plus, he wasn’t interested in her, and had made it quite clear). The thing was, I was very careful around him, and never even flirted with him, because I didn’t want to step on her toes. But, one night at a work party, myself and another friend cornered him and tried to find out if he liked her, and if so, for heaven’s sake to ask her out!!! THIS is what she must’ve seen – and instead of asking me about it, she just resented me. For years!!! I couldn’t believe it. I couldn’t believe that she thought that little of me after our years of friendship, and me never having displayed that behaviour before. I was a good friend, and she wasn’t. And I decided to let her go. After I did, I felt so relieved, and wished I’d had the courage to walk away years ago. I’d been loyal to someone who thought themselves above me, and that isn’t the type of friendship I want.
Sorry for the long reply, but I think sometimes friendship issues hurt more than boyfriend/girlfriend/partner issues. We often entrust our friends with information about ourselves that others don’t get to see or hear, and so it hurts more…
As to Evelyn’s response – I believe that the more sure we are of our own self, and our own character, the less we need to defend ourselves. If you were to laugh when she tells these demeaning stories about you, and put her in her place without being defensive, you’ll find that her behaviour will actually start to *feel* less offensive. You know your own truth, and you never need to defend that. Laughing at someone’s attempt to put you down is far better, I believe, than telling them that they’ve hurt you, especially if you hardly know them. You’re taking the wind out of their sails, because they can’t trigger you… By telling her your vulnerable spots, you’re actually giving her more ammunition if she’s that type of person.
Hm, I disagree somewhat with the approach of trying to discuss this behavior with the “newish friend.” The operative word here is “newish.” She doesn’t have a history of stable, mutual friendship wherein this behavior can be put into context. A conversation would be useful if this “putting down” were a change from the norm and a hefty dose of benefit of the doubt can be applied to mirror her behavior and have a discussion.
I have a no bullshit policy for “friends” that behave in shady or hurtful ways. If I’m getting to know someone new and I can observe flakiness, disrespect, or anything else along those lines, I’m very happy to let them be how they are, not take it personally, and disengage. Sometimes that means ignoring their attempts to connect completely (I don’t owe them anything, so why “tell them all about them”?) sometimes it merely means disengaging from any sort of intimacy – I may take them up on an offer to hang out once in a while but keep it to a superficial level by not discussing personal details or putting myself in a situation (like trips etc.) that naturally call for more intimate bonding. Some friendships aren’t meant to be “close” and can operate quite well on a superficial basis of mutual interests.
Discussions, talks, making myself vulnerable, reflecting back other people’s hurtful behavior are reserved solely for friends with whom I have built a basis of trust and respect.
Realistically, this can read a lot like aloofness or coldness – I’ve been told many times I’m hard to get to know. But I don’t owe anyone friendship, no matter how much they want it, if I don’t feel like the friendship is adding something positive to my life. It’s not their fault, it’s not my fault, it’s just how life is.
I had to learn this the hard way after growing up surrounded by mean girls whose jealousy and insecurity ran rampant and at my expense. I used to take it VERY personally, engaged emotionally with this behavior to a point that was quite detrimental. Now I am very happy to observe people’s behavior compassionately (I do see where mean girl behavior comes from,) but not take it on and/or try to “reason” with them. There are enough friends who wouldn’t even think about offloading their insecurities onto me, and I’m fine focusing on those.
Well said, Hojay – very good policies for a happy and healthy life. I live the same way now, and I love that those dramas are gone from my life. Not that things don’t happen, or I never feel sad, but I don’t get dragged into other people’s dramas anymore. And I don’t allow myself to get ‘guilted’ into being in friendships that don’t go both ways…
Yes, such a relief to just stop engaging in the dramas and worries of friendships that hurt. I agree, it doesn’t mean I’m not still disappointed when people turn out to be less trustworthy and kind than I expected; sure it’s not fun to realize it. But I’ve gotten to a point where I don’t even dwell about the whys and hows and maybes, I just let the situation be as it is and go my way. Wish it were as easy with the men in my life – I’ve been thinking a lot about how differently I approach these two types of relationships and how I may benefit to learn from the boundaries I’m able to keep with platonic relationships in my life.
I agree with your approach to friendships. I apply it similarly to men as well. I think it’s balanced, healthy and self loving. It is a relief to have the dramas out of my life as well. I can say that my life is peaceful now. That was the last of the faux friends. Funny, for some reason I was able to apply it to men before I was able to apply it to women. I wonder if we generally give men more of a benefit of the doubt in relationships, make more exceptions for them.
I’m glad to hear you got to a place of calm with this faux friend, Evelyn. I know it takes a lot, but once that hurdle is overcome, something just clicks!
The discrepancy between how we apply boundaries to men and woman is funny. I’ve been talking a lot about this with a friend who has no problems asserting herself with men, but can’t seem to figure it out with the women in her life. I’m the exactly opposite. I assume it has a lot to do with whom we had the most traumatic relationships as children/teenagers – where the boundaries got muddied. It’s clear as day to me where my issues with asserting boundaries with men comes from – doesn’t mean it’s easy to fix 🙂 One step at a time!
Thanks, Hojay, it does seem easier once it clicks!
Yes, your assumption makes a ton of sense. My problem with men was more obvious to me, so I worked through that first. Turns out the one with women was more subtle but equally detrimental.
So true! Awareness is the first step in what can amount to years of work. I think this blog is speeding up the process for many.
Hojay, agree with you 100%, I wouldn’t talk about feeling with friends I rather dump them, especially if they keep letting and putting me down! What is the point for all this drama?! One of my friends currently earning 10 times more than I am and she keeps “showing off”, I feel really uncomfortable as she said couple of times : “oh poor you, you never been in such a situation before” ( I know myself that but don’t want other to be reminded me). I don’t know shall I rid if her or keep her? I definitely do not want to discuss with her my feelings as she would think I am jealous of her success? Which I am NOT:) I will probably start to avoid her company, as I feel that her comments make me unhappy…
Three things I want to say:
1. Sometimes a good heart doesn’t see a bad heart coming. The answer is a clear and consistent boundary not blame. WHAT WE TOLERATE WILL CONTINUE. Absence of a clear message to stop is permission to continue. She will respect that or she won’t. If she doesn’t – wish her well and move on.
2. She should be revered by you as a teacher. She is teaching you about your attachment to “looking good in the eyes of others.” You can then examine your own insecurities and self-doubts and work on healing and building your own sense of worthiness. If you already had that you would have called her on the put downs the first time it happened (respectfully of course). Or she might have sensed your power and not done it in the first place (or not chosen you as a friend if she couldn’t have power over you). I bet there are other people she never does this too. What quality do they have that they are never prey?
3. When someone has hurt you they don’t get to decide that they didn’t. A person of good character accepts that their behaviour was hurtful, they apologize and they commit to doing better. (All three are necessary). I have a great sense of humour – I just don’t find it funny when people put me down. But it goes both ways. I don’t put others down either.
Hope that helps.
Very good. Thank you.
All excellent insights, Kathy. I often ran into folks who’d act as if they’ve decided they didn’t hurt me and expect me to act as if it didn’t happen and have an attitude if I wouldn’t. I used to think it must be me because I was the common denominator. And, that goes back to your points 1 & 2. It was me, just not the way I thought it was.
It’s a shift from powerless thinking to powerful thinking and trusting my own perceptions.
It does help. Thank you!
I learned these things from experience – bad experience. It isn’t us – but it is us too. I used to wear a “kick me” sign and then got upset when people kicked me. Over time as I healed and began to love myself I no longer tolerated poor treatment. People still try, although far less often, since they sense that I will no longer tolerate it. And I simply have no time for it – two strikes and you’re out. I agree with everyone who says we shouldn’t allow toxic or mean people in our lives and that no one deserves to be treated that way. However, everything changed for me when I looked below the surface and thought about this in a different way.
From experience, explaining yourself to people like this achieves very little. There is a very high chance that if you try and call this new “friend” out on her behaviour, that she would respond by gas lighting you.
In this situation, I’d be going straight towards adopting a slow fade on this so-called new “friend”.
This is gold Natalie! I like the part where you suggest not immediately discarding this friend, but giving the opportunity to see if friend is receptive to the boundary setting, because of the friendship. How she responds, will be indicative of whether or not the friendship is a good fit. Very good.
My former “friend” is a typical narcissist-I finally called her out on her behavior after letting it build for a long time (which was wrong on my part, but I “wanted to keep the peace”) I also would say “well, that is who she is”
In the end she tried reflecting the blame on me. A person that is so self absorbed will never see the err of her ways… a very dark soul she is. Glad to have her out of my life. If you have to have a “sit down” with your friend who is 45+ years old about her bad behavior that is a problem.
Hi everyone, this is Evelyn. Thanks Nat for posting and answering my question! Thank you to all who responded. I’m grateful for all of the wise men and women in this tribe and for the feedback.
I sensed that this was who she was and that it was coming from a place of insecurity (jealousy/competition). Since she’s been like this a long time, I also figured it wasn’t going to change. I’ve been working on boundaries, so I chose to look at this experience as an opportunity to practice and see how it went. I took a small step back and when we did go out for a previously scheduled event, I said something to her.
I let her know that when she told the story about the camping trip and made it out like I was a bad person I felt hurt and betrayed. She said she was sorry and that she didn’t mean to hurt me that she told it in a way that SHE looked ‘silly’. I said, no, you didn’t look silly, I looked mean. You threw me under the bus. To her credit, she admitted it, she said she threw me under the bus. I said that if this friendship was going to work we have to have each others backs. She agreed and apologized.
What I realized that night, when I was getting ready to go and pick her up, was that I wanted to wear this cute dress that I hadn’t worn yet, but I was concerned that she would feel bad. I was dimming my light so she wouldn’t feel bad. I realized that she was insecure and jealous and I was trying not to “make her feel bad”(or anger her?). It was a big realization for me and I realized I’ve done it for years. My insecurities/fears were keeping me small. My appearance has been an issue for a long time.
I chose to wear the dress and look my best and she would just have to deal with however she felt about it (and so would I). Sure enough, she made a comment about it and immediately started tearing herself down and spent part of the evening doing just that and I spent part trying to be her cheerleader. It was hauntingly familiar…
This wasn’t something I was willing to continue to do.
I took a small step back (doing the gradual fade) and she revealed herself again weeks later when we were at a local concert and a man was showing very strong interest in me (moving a chair to sit with me, spent the evening chatting with only me). She came up to him and started flirting with him, obviously, overtly throwing herself at him. I wasn’t concerned and sat back and watched/talked to the person on the other side of me. She finally realized it wasn’t working and left. The guy and I went on with our conversation and he asked me out.
Of course I was done with her at that point. She later called me and told me “men are threatened by you because you are tall, pretty, athletic, outdoorsy and an intellectual, it’s too much and it’s threatening”. I was aware of what she was doing whether or not she was. I responded saying that had not been my experience, and that I had been asked out many times in the last month. Then she changed her tone and said that it was because I don’t care and I’m not desperate.
We ended the conversation and I haven’t seen her since.
It was really helpful to have that experience and I don’t regret it. She was a teacher. She showed me how much I play it small so I don’t threaten other people, so I can avoid the pain of their jealousy, retaliation, and scapegoating. My mom and my older sister were competitive and jealous and they undermined me and my self- image, and self confidence. I felt trapped and helpless and worked hard to prove I wasn’t a threat (bad) and that they were good and found myself attempting to defend myself from their deception/mischaracterizations, again trying to prove I’m good. I worked hard to save them from their self-loathing (and their hatred of me?) (and myself from facing the reality of the situation). It’s not safe to be too pretty, smart, etc…
It really helped me to face something I needed to face, so I’m grateful.
Like many of you, I now speak up the first time there’s a boundary violation. If the behavior continues, I have my answer. I’ve learned that unless it’s someone I trust, I don’t tell them how the behavior affects me. They haven’t shown me that they can be trusted with that vulnerability and it gives them power to hurt me further – and if they’re a boundary violator, they’ll know how to use it.
Now I stick to the facts. Please stop talking over me. It’s not okay for you to misrepresent me in your stories. Kind but firm. If they make an excuse rather than an apology, it speaks volumes about the likelihood that they will continue that behavior. Then I pay attention. If they repeat it, depending on the person/behavior, I cut ‘em loose or back up emotionally. Oh, and I’m not holding back anymore in my appearance. Bring it, I’ve got my back. 😉
Thanks again everyone. It’s great to experience women helping and supporting other women. I think too often we’re taught to compete with other women in unhealthy ways and it hurts us all.
I am not at all surprised that it played out like that.
It’s hard when you’re in this kind of situation.
I find it so depressing when you initially really enjoy a female friend’s company only to have a the gradual, unsettling realisation that she’s engaged in a perpetual pissing contest/one upmanship game with you.
I have had this happen to me several times throughout my life.
I’m not the most confident of people, so it takes me a long time to realise that the so-called “friend’s” unacceptable behaviour is actually driven by jealousy.
After such experiences, I could sum up my feelings towards the person in question as: “FFS! I enjoyed your company, why on earth did you have to decide that we were in competition with each other!”
Yes, I guess we saw that coming, Evelyn, as E says. But you had to experience it for yourself – that’s how we learn. And now you’ve had a great insight into your own pleasing behaviour, due to the two most important females in your life competing with you and making you their scapegoat.
I, too, am tall, slim, and others thought I was attractive (though I was terribly self-conscious and shy), and every time I used to go to my sister’s house to pick her up to go out, she’d pick a fight – like, if we were guys, it would’ve been a punch-up! She was so vicious!!!! I looked up to her my whole life, so I was deeply hurt and confused. Jealousy is a killer – my sister recently died of cancer. Her resentment, jealousy and bitterness literally ate away at her…
So, yes, I’ve dimmed my light too – in fact, I almost disappeared in a sea of beige for a while, until someone pointed it out around seven years ago, and told me I needed to get my femininity back… And so I have… I’ve also been working at freeing myself from the tyranny of my family’s scapegoating and brainwashing – I don’t need their crap running my life any longer, thank you…
You’ve had a wonderful learning experience here, Evelyn – well done! And thank you for posing that question, because I think we’ve all learned something from each other here. I love this healing space 🙂
Cindy, I was shy and self conscious too. I stooped to wearing big sweaters as a kid o cover my developing body. Sorry about your experience with your sister and family. It’s so hard when the people you count on to support you are the ones tearing you down.
My sister was miserable and died suddenly in her early 50’s. I do feel compassion for her, she was deeply unhappy.
Now I can see that I turned the pain inward and they turned it outward. Thank heaven I am more firmly in reality and not personalize their or anyone else’s behavior.
So glad to hear that you are doing so well! Thank you for your support and kind words!
I agree with what Natalie said, especially that the person who looks self-centered, selfish, inconsiderate, if anyone, would be her in your friends’ eyes.
This reminds me of something happened yrs ago. Two of my colleagues and my boss were at a client meeting where we were trying to strengthen the relationship by a very casual and relaxing chat. In a middle of a 5-person conversation, a girl on our team started to boast of her academic life at Harvard and Princeton. All she did was to grab attention, and as the only person on the team who didn’t have an ivy league diploma, and it made me feel bad. Later I was surprised to find out that everyone else was annoyed by her bragging over that dinner. Her action really discredited her in front of the client as she was making fun of the girl about things she said at dinner afterward. And after a few months of working together, the client already knew the flamboyant side of her already.
So similarly in your situation, that “friend” badmouthing you in front of everyone including you speaks a lot about her personality and characters, to everyone there.
Unlike others who think there’s no need to talk to her again, I actually support Natalie’s point of you that you should have a conversation with her. The reason is not to embarrass her or make her feel guilty, but to resurrect yourself, NOT in front of ppl like her, but yourself. It matters to tell yourself that you have the strength and courage to confront a situation like this instead of hiding and being silent for the whole time. Whatever she says to you, at this conversation, would not matter and if she end up being mean and lying to you again, pitty her and walk away. At that point, you’ve done everything you can to draw a closure to it. You are brave.
Lastly, I just have one more thing to add: have faith in your friends. If those people listening already know who you are as a person, her attack on you is not going to change how people view you. So it really matters that you be kind to the rest of the folks, which I’m sure you are.
Corrections: Natalie’s point of view* (not “point of you”), was distracted by the music playing in the room 🙂
In the last couple of years, I realised at a deep level that I had three “friends” where, if I spent any length of time with them, I’d start to feel as though I was being put through a mincer. Two of them were people I hadn’t known that long, and it was easy to detach from them by just not being available. The other was someone I’ve known for about 30 years, on and off, and I reflected that she treated me with the same kind of contempt that my dysfunctional mother used to – which, of course, is why I tolerated it in the first place. Misplaced loyalty has always been an issue with me, and it was a massive lightbulb moment to realise that the fact that I’d known her all that time DIDN’T mean that I owed her anything.
I could be more analytical I suppose. But for me, the main lesson was that it’s OK to walk away from toxic people.
It’s amazing how many days this thread has lasted. This is probably b/c Evelyn’s story is fairly common (among women friends and “friends”).
That is reflected in the subsequent stories and feedback of all who posted. It was great to see “Evelyn” come back and engage with updates on the original situation posted, as well.
Being that I absorbed and pretty much agree with everyone else, the only concept that might be useful to add to the conversation/concepts
is that old adage or saying: “When someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time.”
With that in mind, the choices of what to do from there truly vary — kinda like dealer’s choice. Sometimes, there is just no rationale behind the crappy behavior of a person towards us that doesn’t feel right. Insecurity, jealousy, etc. tip the iceberg, and are up there as far as accounting for bad/weird/behavior that doesn’t sit well with us, along with with plain ole bats*it crazy.
Grown women need to be aware of themselves in and out of “relationships” and “friendships.” I’d feel much better if the friend in this case took ownership and said “I feel insecure around you at times and that plays out by me saying hurtful things to you.” It’s not on us to figure that s*it out for them and govern ourselves accordingly by “having a conversation” or whatever.Lotta women out there that are not women per se, with grownup emotions and behavior intact– lotta little girls out there in women’s bodies that are truly not grown.
A mismatch in levels of self-awareness usually breeds trouble– regardless of the interaction, be it in a “friendship”, at work, in a “relationship,” whatever.
So, for my portion, to answer Nat’s original question posed along the line of what would you do in the situation: that’s, get to steppin’, send em’ packin’ out of your life and you out of theirs.
Friendship or “friendship” is an option, not an obligation. Not everyone is open to or capable of growth. I think ideally, friendship should serve alongside or proxy to relationships with men — and should be endowed with love, care, trust, respect. As such, most of the time, calling someone out on their weird or rude or hurtful behavior benefits US, not them, as surely they can’t or won’t change — but *we* might grow in the process, by standing up for ourselves.
Oftentimes for me, it turns out that the “fadeout” take is sorta cowardly — I prefer to stand up for myself prior to letting the person go. It’s painful and awkward, but I personally have felt better about being honest and upfront with people about why I’ve decided our association has to end– and it’s not a trite “it’s me not you” type of speech either— no my friend, here’s where I think it’s YOU. So, “bye, girl, byeeeeeeee!”
All that’s doubly for someone who is “newish” to us. Sometimes, a “new friendship” isn’t beneficial and adding something positive to our lives so why hang on? A lot of times, addressing their behavior in some type of ongoing way is hanging on, making the investment in processing all of that and the associated emotions on both parts more trouble than it’s really worth.
In the vernacular — ain’t nobody got time for that s*it.
I had this problem the last months.
Mine got very bad very fast but I could tell she was jealous of my personality, so when she tried to copy me and take my place at work and with friends I knew I was facing a toxic, maybe sociopath person.
I had to step back for my own mental sanity but it backfired and almost all the people I used to call friends took her side. She made herself look like the victim and tried to isolate me. So I had to leave, because it was drawing my energy.
It still bothers me because they took her side, even though she was bullying me, and she got to get what she wanted, my job and my “friends”.
So sad… the worst part is that this is not the first time this happened to me, and probably won’t be the last.
Nihara, wait a minute.
In your last paragraph, you said, “So sad… the worst part is that this is not the first time this happened to me, and probably won’t be the last.”
You and only you can decide whether to allow others to maneuver situations and try to turn people against you.
Self pity is useless when what you really need are a stiff backbone and a sharp tongue.
People who listen to only one side and make a decision are not worth fretting over.
Soon after I cut my older sister out of my life, I went to a holiday party at my cousin’s house. I have 30 first cousins, and a lot of them were at the party. The snoopiest five or six of them got boozed up and they cornered me and asked when I was going to patch things up with the sister.
I said, “Well, I know I didn’t tell any of you about this situation, yet you all seem to know about it, and now you’re asking me when I’m going to patch things up. That tells me she’s been dishing some dirt and indicated I caused the rift, and you believed her without asking for my side of the story. So, here it is. I got away from her because she’s been emotionally abusive to me all my life, and after my shrink read just one of the vicious letters she’d sent me over the years, she said I’d be wise to get away from her because her hatred was palpable.”
They all gasped and leaned in, hoping for more juicy specifics. I said, “Look, I know how you little snoop dogs are, just dying to hear more dirt. But y’all need to mind your own business this time. It’s a serious, permanent break that took me two years to decide on, and it’s not gonna become routine cocktail party chatter. So, when she starts in again, and she will, consider what I have NOT said tonight. Unlike her, I don’t need to make her look bad to try to turn you against her, but I told you the minimum just so you’d know both sides. I don’t expect you to have to choose a side.”
Nobody has mentioned it since then, but I just got an invitation to the same party this year. My sister won’t be there.
The moral of the story is, bullies and people who trample your boundaries with gossip are always going to pop up. It’s perfectly all right for you to tell them to back off, stay out of it, or otherwise STFU.
Nat and all. My friendship issue has had me pulled back and forth for about 9 years now. It almost cost me my life. Let me explain … my best friend and I have always been close and when she introduced me to a guy that started working for her company, I was smitten. This guy and I friended eachother on Fb, texted constantly, and he got me hooked on football. I tried telling my best friend about him and she freaked out. He’s an odd guy, he’s old (he’s 10 years older than us), he doesn’t ever want to go anywhere or hang out with people here in the company… well I ignored her and stayed friends with him. Over the next 8 years we also be came very close friends and I just didn’t choose to tell my best friend. She does t like him and so I say nothing. Well this guy and I have very blurred lines. About 2 years into our friendship he admitted he had a girlfriend but it was a lousy relationship (that should have been my get out of jail card). But I stayed in the friendship. We would hang out once in awhile but always on his terms. He helped me build an addition on to my house one year , and I was just thrilled. Funny, talented.. why wouldn’t anyone love this guy?? Allll the while not telling my best friend because she didn’t know how close we were. Things became unmanageable with him after he had to have surgery on his eye. He couldn’t work for awhile and his mood shifted. Note that he has PTSD … after his surgery he pushed me away and didn’t want to see me. He claimed he didn’t want to talk to anyone. He finally went back to work and he would act like he was fine but he wasn’t. He was miserable. I tried everything to reach out and have him talk to me but he wouldn’t. He got downright mean and rotten if he did talk to me. Bottom line this was the rotten side of the apple i never ever saw before. I was sad and angry .. what was happening to this cozy comfortable friendship with a guy that I really cared about ? I ended up getting sick and in the ER one morning and most certainly should have died (I didn’t have enough medicine in my system for a condition I have). I texted this guy from the hospital, showing him my Er band in my arm with goosebumps …. I never heard a damn word. And it got worse. I almost had to guilt him into seeing me and saying hi . He swore he did care , he did. Really? Because I’m confused here… well he had another surgery. Not a big surprise I knew he was going to just be the same and act worse. And he did. I ended up losing my license for 6 months because of my medical issue. I still haven’t been able to fully explain to him why it happened. He has talked to me in person maybe 3 times but we have both been working. He says he will come by and assist me with some medical documents i need his signature on, but he just puts it off. I have him over s month to come by, and he disappeared like he was scared to help me. It makes no sense!!! Why?? Someone explain this man to me. He will suddenly show up texting me acting fine like nothing’s wrong. If my best friend knew how he was being with me now, she would kick some butt for sure. Do I need Nc on this AC? I feel he keeps hitting the reset button…
FleeceRzone,
Welcome to Baggage Reclaim, you will learn alot here. Keep coming back – and reading through all the articles and comments. You will find the right answers for your situation, at the right time.
Who can explain this to me? My good male friend of 4 years saw me today. I’ve lost a lot of weight, and have more confidence than I did when I first met him. When he met me, we flirted a lot but I stayed away since he had a girlfriend. He complained that she was always taking business trips and he didn’t trust her. Anyways I backed off big time and today he came up to me and was so happy to see me! He then said… “u wanna hook up once in awhile? No falling in love allowed and no stalking!”. I just stood there and looked at him. Then I said “do u really have feelings for me? U do don’t u.” He admitted that he did… but honestly ladies, a guy that says this (a friend for goodness sake!) how do u handle this? Have things gotten awkward even before anything has happened ? Eeeek!
Each to their own; in my opinion you tell him to go eff himself – in your own words: Who says this to a friend? Where’s the respect? Tell him to go and find his commitment free, feeling free hook ups with a hooker!
@Eli – I had to laugh at what you said because it’s what I should have said! He has gotten to a point where he doesn’t text me back hardly at all anymore. I’ll ask him for help with something or just a hello and he never says a word. He tends to retreat into hiding and when it’s in his terms, shows back up again. It pisses me off so there is no communication. Toxic friendship anyone? I’ve given this guy a lot of my time since I met him and when I had a personal issue , tried calling him he never answered. Never admitted to not being there for me. But now he wants to be FWB? Talk about a shift in this…
I hadn’t heard from her since the concert where she was hitting on the guy I was sitting with. Got a text from this “friend” last night inviting me for drinks around Christmas. I love this new sense of power to say no without guilt. Actually, in this case it was to delete the text without a thought and go on with my evening!
Oh to be able to delete that text and not feel bad… whenever I don’t reply , he sends me guilt texts. “Oh okay I get it, u aren’t talking to me. It’s okay I get it.” Mind you if I text him and he doesn’t reply, which is quite often, I don’t do that. He just loves the disappearing act and it frustrates the hell out of me!! I go on with my life, and eventually he shows back up about a week later like nothing is wrong. He just doesn’t get it…
I think it comes when you’ve had enough. When you decide that you are done. When you get it. Who cares if they do or not?!
I guess it comes down to closure. I feel like he owes me some apology for the rollercoaster EU AC he has been, and the toxic friendship. I’ve done nothing but always be there for him… my guy tells me that’s not his issue, that’s MINE. I need to step away from him because no matter what he says, promises, he won’t live up to it. He can’t. All I am, is an ego stroke for the guy. Yeah, im starting to understand and see things clearly thanks to BR!
I had a so-called friend that undermined me. I would be relating something and she would start questioning my motives. I refused to be maneuvered into defending myself when I was discussing something else, so I would just smile at her.
I watched and waited. She soon notched up her efforts. She would state something about me as if it was fact: “You don’t ever play your piano.” False. She would pointedly mention benefits low-income people qualified for, when I had never disclosed my income to her.
Finally, she ramped it up and started making insulting remarks. I called her on it and told her it was gaslighting. I now keep my distance.
We all need to set firm personal boundaries and refuse to allow maltreatment.