You only have to look at the number of women with emotionally unavailable men (Mr Unavailables) and the quintessential cheater with a wife or a girlfriend in the background to know that there is a hell of a lot of hoping going on out there.
An assclown is any guy that mistreats you and often eventually proves to be a waste of time and space. He adds little or no value to the relationship and the cost to you of being with him is often your self-esteem, your well-being, and for some, your career, family, or friends. They only have one foot or possibly even a toe in the relationship and they knowingly (even if they deny it) mess you around and enjoy the fringe benefits of being with you (ego stroking, sex, and a reliable shoulder to lean on) even though they don’t actually want you, or have no intentions of ever giving you the relationship that you want.
There are two categories of assclown; the Out and Proud and the Unknowing.
Out and Proud Assclowns make no bones about being poor relationship candidates. These are what most women understand to be Bad Boys and when they tell you know about themselves, it’s a warning giving you the opportunity to run in the opposite direction. But assclowns who know they are assclowns and are even proud of it, are very skilled at getting women.
Unknowing Assclowns are in some respects your more dangerous variety. They’re not actually ‘unknowing’ they’re either immensely egotistical and disconnected from the effect of their actions, or they’re sociopaths that don’t know right from wrong. It’s very difficult to explain to one of these men why their behaviour is inappropriate and he is likely to see himself as a ‘great catch’.
Now however you end up drawing the conclusion that you’re with an assclown, you need to recognise that poor relationship behaviour is poor relationship behaviour.
There’s no such thing as a quarter assclown or a half one, and even if he’s nice to the sweet old lady that lives next door, if he’s behaving like an assclown to you, that’s all that matters. They don’t have a sudden change of behaviour and decide to play nice which means that if you want to be in a decent relationship and feel loved, respected, and able to trust, why on earth of you with him?
Your thoughts?
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Too true. My AC has two faces, the helpful one if asked to assist his ‘friends’ i.e. the people he cannot afford to fall out with because he’d then have no-one to talk to in his tiny community, and the other face that only his women see. This one is charming and sexy on the outside, but very ‘out and proud’ about his attitude towards women and relationships – as in ‘I will never belong to one woman again’ – which I think he said the day we met!!!!
Problem was I thought ‘poor lamb, he’s needy but terrified after his wife left him. I will help him to recognise that I am to be trusted’
Well many years and several break-ups later, I now know – he told me the truth that first day – and I didn’t listen, for reasons that I didn’t realise at the time but now do. I am still around, but only because I am not ready to have a proper relationship with anyone – I know this and am working on it but no longer have any illusions about the what and the why.
What I do know is that if your situation is making YOU miserable then you need to work out why you are doing what you are doing, and then do something about it – waiting for them to change or even worse I think, trying to change them yourself is unlikely to work.
‘They don’t have a sudden change of behaviour and decide to play nice’
Well mine did have sudden changes of behaviour – but only when it had sunk in that his behaviour was not getting what he wanted – so he’d change for a while then go back to default mode, which is AC.
So yes, NML is right, if you want a decent relationship with a decent person, then look for the red flags and walk. Easier said than done but everyone on this site has been there, and I’m sure would have been happier now had we walked at the beginning.
Yes, the one I encountered is an Out and Proud Assclown with a little twist. Fully aware of his destructive behavior, pretends to be “sad and confused” by it, yet he’s been with 5 women in less than a year. As you say, very skilled at getting women. He even told me he was “afraid” to admit who he was for fear people would run. (UGH the pity card) He played the poor, wounded, broken man who just wanted to be loved….knowing full well that love was the last thing he could give OR receive. I guess he figured admitting he was an Assclown gave him the permission to be one! Fair warning, huh? Now I know to run run run if I ever hear that garbage again.
I wonder if there ever is a time when A**clown is truly remorseful at all. I left my xEUM 6months ago. He has tried to be nice to me (we work together) and I have completely closed the door on him and allow ZERO access to my life. I have learned a tremendous amount from this site and from other’s stories…and I have implemented every piece of advice that NML has to get me through this but im wondering, is there ever a time when its ok to forgive your A**clown? If so, when would that be? Or what would warrant a sincere and genuine gesture of remorse? I ask this because i contemplate it sometimes. I do so because I have never remained angry with anyone in my life FOREVER. I have always been able to make ammends even if it was years later. I sometimes feel that he is at least sorry for parts of what happened and at other times i think he is just looking for an ego stroke. I would be interested in knowing from either NML or others on here what your thoughts are on this. I am not saying that i would run and be his best friend and allow him into my life. But I wonder at times (as the pain and hurt of the relationship is diminishing) and I am less and less emotionally attached to him if my indifference and distant and coldness is necessary? And to what extent is holding on to these feelings not good for me? I also wonder if like NML mentioned in her last post, that we tend to think that these men think like we do, when in reality they dont. Am I just projecting empathy and remorse because I have the capacity to feel these things and he is just a great “pretender”/actor? Because I by no means wish to be had again. He is not asking for me to come back to him. In fact, he has never implied wanting me back. But he does “try” to be friendly…meaning trying to ask how my family is doing etc…. He even got me a card and a watch for mother’s day (he left it on my desk) and the card was a “friend” card simply stating: You have changed my life. Thank you for always having helped me – I always wish you the best. Have a wonderful mother’s day. and he signed it. I did not call nor attempt to reach out to him. The next time i saw him in the bldg he asked me if i had gotten it and i simply replied: Yes…..there was no reason for you to have done that…..but thank you anyway. And I walked away. (I dont wear the watch either!) Now, this is probably the coldest I have been to anyone in my life. And I did take the “HARD as stone” approach – just for my own well being and in order to maintain NC. Just wondering what every one else thinks. When do you know (if you do) if these A**clowns can be forgiven although their actions never forgotten??? Is there a time?
Hi Karen,
You pose some interesting questions. For me, and I speak only of myself and my expierences, forgivenes is for you. It’s a spritual, psychlogical and emotional act that is to help you move from one plane of existence to another. The question is not whether an assclown can be forgiven, but rather, if in the act of forgiveness you forget what a truly emotionally empty person he is and is perhaps hoping that he has changed. Then you’re truly not forgiving him, what you are really doing is “hoping” he’s changed and betting on his potential to change and we all know that does not happen with these men.
I think it is possible to forgive people that have hurt us. I learned a lot about myself after leaving my EUM and I thank him for that, because he opened my eyes to the depth my own low-self esteem and the expierience forced me to wake up and really see my situation for what it is and what I needed to do to stop it. Have I forgivne him? I’m not sure. But I no longer hate him or think about him, or pine after him or anything. I am totally indifferent to him, I neither hate him or love him, he is just an “it.” It took me a very long time to get to this feeling of nothingness I have for him and I suspect that in time you will feel the same, since it’s only been six months of NC. I think you’ve done a good job at keeping him at a distance. That’s good! But be careful that he isn’t trying to wear down your resistance. These men are incredibly manipulative and cunning. They know our weaknesses and they will prey on them. Why didn’t he show this level of sensitivity when you were with him? Why do you have to be the one to make amends? Aren’t you always the one to do that first? Even though you’ve been the one hurt? Don’t you have a right to be hurt and angry for the shabby way he treted you? Being distant and cold, may be the only way to keep him at bay, to create that boundry, so many of use struggle with when dealing with these men. So, I would say continue NC on all levels, continue to give yourself time to heal and learn from this expierience, continue to work on loving yourself and forgivness will eventually come.
Forgivness is a gift you give to yourself first and it will come in time.
hmmm… im just sitting here analyzing what i wrote. (LOL) A part of me really thinks that these men are soooo damn good at what they do that even when you are trying to be “strong” they make you wonder (like i am right now). I am not saying this because I want him back. I am saying this because I am a person who believes in second chances and believes that we all make mistakes but I am also a woman who has grown tremendously in these past 6months and who does not want to in any way back track if giving this man a crack in the doorway will do so.
NML: did you ever question this with any of your xEUMS after you were over them? can you post something about this? I really dont want to be fooling myself or “falling” for any kind of EUM behaviour and at the same time, I dont want to be so cruel as to not “allow” someone the opportunity to try something different (thats if they even can). Am I being too much of a hard ass? Believe me, your tough love advice has made me into a tougher and no BS woman, (still working on it though)which is where I want to be, but I guess I am afraid of becoming too “tough”??? Anyone know what i mean?
Kissie:
I just read your post. You answered my question and put my doubts to rest. Thank you so much for your response, I really needed that and your post said it all!!! THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!! 🙂
I see Karen’s point,Im like her and usualy just try to be nice to people even if they arent much nice to me.I fell so guilty to be cold,ignore or anything like that with somebody even when they did something to deserve it.I never ignored my exEUM even with him doing it with me many times,that is the first time.It was his birthday last sunday and I didnt send anything,I thought about doing it but then I would have to break NC and I didnt want him to know I was thinking about him so I didnt send anything.But I did felt guilty afterwards,wondering if I should have sent something.I also think that what if the EUM dont do that to hurt us? I mean what if that is just how they are and they just dont know how to be diferent but that they dont intentionaly mean to hurt us.Like people sometimes do not so nice things with us or dont treat us good but not always is about us,sometimes is just because that is how they are or that is how they act. Anyway I dont know,I just dont fell much good about being cold/ignore somebody forever too like Karen said.Maybe Im wrong and I shouldnt be like that,I dont know.Anyway I would like to know what other things about it.
Karen~I think there is a time and place for everything. But in our cases (those of us who post here) we have been burned too many times, hurt and abused and we are trying to help ourselves break free of the pattern and change.
So yes, I would say in time, no set time frame of course, just when it’s your time and you have healed that it would probably be natural to forgive the Assclown. I don’t think we ever truly forget them or the things which occured and happened to us, and probably for good reason….probably to prevent us from making those same mistakes.
Honestly, I think any person who is spirtual and believes in some higher power knows that all has to be forgiven between yourself and the other person so that you can move on, and be a happy person. But all this philosphy takes a lot of emotional healing first, some of us heal faster than others. But he broke your heart, and that’s a pretty big deal and it’s a very core piece of who you are. He may have remorse for what he’s done, but until you’ve healed completely, and only you know when that will be, anything he tries to do or say will only fester that wounded heart and prevent your healing which has to take place in order to move on, or past it.
You are a good person, with some great qualities which have been impressed upon me from your posts. I know you are committed to yourself and doing what it takes to heal and forgive yourself first. Because ultimately unless we forgive ourselves and our faults, there cannot be forgiveness towards others. That’s what is so maddening sometimes for me, I find it hard to forgive myself because I am so ashamed or embarrassed by how blind I was about the assclown in the first place.
All the best!
Karen,
You’re very welcome. This site has helped me so much too, I’m glad I could offer you some insight.
To betterwithouthim:
I hear you. It’s really hard to look yourself in the mirror and say “damn, why was I soooo stupid.” But were we really stupd? What did we do that was so wrong? We opened up our hearts to men we hoped would be tender and gently with it and they weren’t. Their loss, their issue, not ours. All we can do is learn to protect our hearts a bit better. It’s the only one we have. I know it’s easier said than done, but don’t be ashamed. You gave your gift of precious love and attention to someone who didn’t deserve it or know what to do with it. And now you’ve moved on… No need to beat yourself up. Learn from this expierience, grow from it and promise yourself and your heart not to do it again.
To me, forgiveness means offering compassion, understanding, kindness. I would love to be able to do that, but offering those things are exactly what the EUM can’t relate to. I know if I were free to be forgiving and loving with him, he would once again see it as a weakness — as he did the first time around. (He said I must have a problem, since I continued to be kind and compassionate towards him when he claims he had been trying to ignore me).
Normal, healthy balanced people are able to admit their mistakes, however awkward that may be, and at least be willing to meet someone half-way. I don’t believe the EUM HAS emotions. He can’t understand kindness, forgiveness, compassion, loving bonds.
He can only relate to anger, deceit, EU, fear, rejection.
I would like nothing more than to be “myself” around him– playful, engaging, fun, happy. I would love to be able to put this episode in the past and at least treat him like an ordinary acquaintance– i.e.cordial if not friendly. But this is the behavior he said was so horrible (“toxic” was the word he used)– my ability to forgive and continue to be playful, engaging, fun with him despite his behavior.
Honestly, it still hurts me, as I must see him twice a week. I think if or when I ever get to “neutral” with him, forgiving him won’t even be a concern. Thinking about him still makes me cry, so I know my desire to “forgive” is really just me wanting him to make it all right. Maybe I feel if I “forgive” I can somehow forget the pain and try again… so I’m not ready because I know deep inside I “want something” from him. If that makes sense..
I think like that too,what if the EUM uses me being nice as a chance to use me? I fell like being nice to him sometimes but I get afraid to do it and he see it as a chance to use me or to think that he can continue to do whatever he wants and that I always will be there for him.Like to reinforce his bad behaviour.
correction: Like me being nice to him is a way to reinforce his bad behaviour
What amazes me on this site is how intelligent and articulate many of the women here are, as we struggle to come out of the EUM/ AC experience. For sure I know several women who stay with AC’s, and likely will their whole lives. But, I am thinking that women involved with AC’s, who do not have to depend on a man for financial support, can start to think about a way out.
I do wonder if our analytical skills translate to problem solving skills and we just assume that the AC is as competent as we are are at learning about and fixing deficiencies of character.
One thing I will say is that we all have issues, the old family of origin stuff. The big difference I noticed with the EUM is that in a good relationship, these issues come to light and are things that make people grow, both as individuals and in the relationship. But the EUM is not capable or willing to do the hard work needed to resolve a problem and grow. Arrested development came to mind
As much as I agree with the two types of AC theory above , the ” out and proud” or “Unknowing”, I experienced a hybrid version of the AC… the whinin boy…. knows he has issues, regrets the effects his actions have ont him, sometimes, ( not sure he ever regrets what those actions do to others) whines about his troubles that he brings on himself, sometimes, other times finds his AC nature something to be proud of.
But the bottom line is eventually I realized he is so emotionally challenged (immature emotionally) and unwilling to tackle his personal problems that he is just a whiner. I think they do think like we do, briefly, but are not capable or insightful or mature enough to keep on working and thinking it through to the action of resolution.
Karen, a purchased card and gift like a watch ( ohhhh brother ) is the amount of meaning these emo challenged guys think is a BIG DEAL. Methinks his brain thunk. “Wow, I got you a card AND a watch, did you get themn huh huh ? see how much I care ? see how much you meant to me? ” But, like in NML’s last post divide that effort by 100 to see how much it really means. Trite stuff, nothing to do with what I am interested in, in any relationship.
For me the fallout of knowing an EUM is not trusting people and not trusting my open nature. Yeah, for me, while I continue to process how I could have been so delusional, I need to be a hardass. Of course I know my loss of trust is something I have to work on, but I do beleive there is a danger to these people that I have never encountered and do not understand.
I know that I will be much more aware of red flags and running fast and hard if I ever encounter this behavior again. Hard ass is good in this sense, For the time being I am content with being alone, in fact I know t is neccesary while I recover and refocus.
I feel stupid asking this question…
Is there a difference between a “Player” and an “assclown”. It seems to me a player would present himself as an ‘unknowing assclown” and never admit to issues of “out and proud AC”…if there is a difference…does the player have any hope in changing? Wants to but knows he is not ready? or am just making excuses?
Thanks NML…once again…
I was married for 18 years to an EUM, though he wasn’t necessarily an assclown. He always got me to feel sorry for him: he had no relationship with his parents, he was an alcoholic, he was bipolar and “couldn’t help himself”. Life always done him wrong. He worked so much harder than other people and got no credit. No one understood how wonderful he was…ALL of these comments are hallmarks of the narcissistic personality. But I bought into it and he always had me feeling sorry for him on some level. But he seldom, if ever, felt sorry for ME about anything. I forgave, forgave, forgave, but he kept pulling stupid stunt after stupid stunt. I no longer think forgiveness is always ok. I think some people abuse us so badly they don’t deserve forgiveness. But we can forgive ourselves for putting ourselves in situations that were toxic for us.
Then, this past year, I got involved in EUM/Assclown. He also tries to make me feel sorry for him. I feel like he lured me into his “trap”, ran sooo hot and then, boom, cold as ice. Of course, he wants me to…drumbeat…feel sorry for him. Nothing is ever his fault: his divorce, his estrangement from one of his daughters, his job loss. He has had one short term relationship after another, and the break-up was THEIR fault because THEY wanted a relationship/commitment, THEY pushed…again, you get the picture. Why I didn’t see the red flags…the only thing I can guess is that when I met him I was lonely, he said all the “right” things, made me feel so unbelievably special. But on the other hand, he has made me feel like such sh#%. I am trying to “break away”, but the more uninterested I seem, the more intrigued he becomes.
I even went out on a date with someone else last night, a charming “nice” man, who said all the “right” things and by that I mean, he made decent conversation, asked me questions about ME, didn’t tell me what a heartthrob he is to other women, made it very clear that he would love to be in a committed relationship, relationships are about give and take, a partnership…
Guess who called me (I didn’t pick up the phone!!) in the middle of the date? Called me on a Wednesday night, which, in the past, he had “trained” me not to call or expect a call from him…it was his “guys night”. That’s another important thing…my ex and this latest guy had me ‘trained’ not to expect a, b, c, or d from the relationship, not to ask certain questions, not to expect certain treatments.
I dont’ think they change, to be perfectly honest. I don’t think they CAN change, this behavior is hard-wired into them. All they ever change is the woman. They find one who has no expectations of a mature relationship and just hone in on her.
kimba – player, assclown….. same shit, different day, different names. 😐
Good start NML. Looking forward to the next part(s).
Sometimes they declare that they are NOT a Player, knowing full well they are, as happened to me.
I truly do not believe he was unaware of his assclown ways, and spent a year convincing me he was someone other than who he really was. I believe he wants to be the person he said he was, but has spent his life being the complete opposite, and has no idea, or the fortitude to change it.
The man I thought was loaded with confidence, and knew what he wanted, and where he wanted to head, was actually very insecure, and followed the crowd, whichever crowd he happened to be with, in an attempt to be accepted. This makes him like the ball in a pinball machine, never really having his own identity.
searchingwithin’s last blog post..How Will We Love?
Yes Searchingwithin
That ‘never really having his own identity’ bit rings true with me. I think they have the outside persona, which they are skilled at modifying to get the result they want, but underneath remains the empty insecure hollow person that they really are.
So they don’t change inside, but are good at tweaking the facade and learn from past experience what works and what doesn’t. For example the AC I was with wouldn’t promise to be faithful to me (after the terrible trauma of his wife leaving him, hmm wonder why?), I ended it because of this. The next woman also demanded that he wouldn’t sleep with anyone else, this time he promised he wouldn’t, but did anyway.
Different words, exactly the same action.
I have encountered both of these in the past year, in which my dating life has resembled a ‘comedy of errors’ (but that I am learning from, thanks in large part to this website!) The first was a muscley guy who told me he didn’t want anything, and was a self-proclaimed a**hole; I had just gotten out of a long relationship and was very vulnerable and got very addicted in a toxic way to this man. But, NC for 4 months and I’m fine. However, last month I got sucked in by I think an “unknowing” a**clown. It hurt more when he stopped calling, because he specifically said he wouldn’t, and acted like he wasn’t an a**, and said all the right things, made me feel very special and goddess-like for a few weeks, but abruptly got scared (he said), went cold, pulled a weird “let’s slow down/develop friendship/not have a relationship based on sex” move, that confused me, and then a week later he wanted sex again. He’s young, and is addicted to a substance (that he says he is in control of, won’t acknowledge as a problem), which I think is a root of many of his flaky behaviors and unreliability. It’s just kind of hard because I feel that we did really communicate and try to discuss things, but he went all erratic. Thanks to this site and others, I am seeing the red flags much sooner and not contacting him, and learning to really respect myself instead of trying to save this train wreck just because I want to be with somebody (and the sex is amazing). I actually made a promise to myself last night, that I won’t sleep with anyone without a relationship/love/trust.. this seems obvious to some but I have never really stuck to it; I have a pattern of not denying lustful impulses and it’s gotten me into so much nonsense and pain over the years. I am finally choosing to honor my inner light and not give it away to everyone. Anyway, there are so many flavors but it gets easier to recognize them and choose early not to get too involved!
Wow everyone has such wonderful points and insights.
Betteroffwithouthim: thank you for your kind words!! 🙂 we were all blindsided by these men and its nothing to feel ashamed of or beat ourselves up over. These men are extremely hard to figure out. We are smart women, who love a little too much for own good but who are smart enough to recognize when someone is taking us on a joy ride. We can only work on making sure that we recognize those red flags a little sooner next time to save us some heartache. 😉
Anusha:
Although we may consider ourselves to be forgiving and loving women, we have to remember that it is that kind heart and being so nice that gets us into trouble sometimes. I know one of the most valuable lessons I have learned here is to ensure that the person you are being kind to in fact appreciates and deserves it. Otherwise, we are doing a disservice to ourselves and only ENABLING their bad habits and behaviour. Believe me, this is right now the hardest part for me. Being cold and distant with him because it is so out of my character, but like Kissie said, these men are sooo damn good at manipulating situations and seeming to “appear” to be something that they arent. Its true what Aphrogirl said did my xEUM think that he was going to tug on my heart strings with that gesture? Well he obviously is very keen to what does work because he certainly got me feeling and thinking about it and that in itself tells me that I still have work to do. The same goes for if you are afraid that he may take advantage of this. If you are feeling this, it is because your gut may be right…. and it is also an indication that you are still too vulnerable to “test” it out. Thanks to everyone’s post I realized that this was just another M.O. that he had to try to get through to me. Perhaps not because he is truly remorseful, but just to make him feel less like the ass that he knows he was with me. Certainly a heartfelt letter, or a sincere apology would have been 10 times more worth it to me than a watch. What was the need for the material aspect of it? I feel like taking that watch and saying: Here take this back, as a reminder to yourself of what a “WASTE of TIME” you have been to me! (haha) I can only think to myself that he would think this was appropriate because a sincere heartfelt gesture is just too much for these men and so they “think” (in their deluded minds) that this is how one SHOWS empathy, remorse, an apology. Had I fallen for it, I think I would have only re-enforced in his mind… “Ah, yes that did it… im not the ass in her mind anymore… in fact, im right,,, im not an ass at all”. All of that has nothing to do with ME or with him being genuinly “sorry” and wanting to make ammends and everything to do with just making himself “FEEL” better. So while yes, being nice and giving second chances are great qualities to have and be able to offer others, we (meaning women who tend to be too nice) have to keep in mind that we have a tendency to “be too nice” in inappropriate situations where it does not warrant it. I know i say this all the time, but if alcohol is my weakness, saying that i am only going to take a sip is putting myself in an extremely vulnerable position that at any moment can send me full fledged back into the addiction that i have worked so hard to get away from. I think i will keep that thought in my mind every time i feel myself wanting to give in and “be nice” (or at least until I am completely over him) until then, these men continue to be someone that we need to stay away from. And I agree with Aphrogirl………..if I have to be a hard ass in order to finish processing all this than so be it……..this is about empowering ourselves and changing the bad habits that got us in trouble in the first place, even if that means “not being so nice”.
Hey all,
I think what was written on this post is right on! Look out for the guys who tell you what you want to hear Cheers, ts,.
I have dated both kinds of EUMs NML mentions and the end result is the same PAIN….
Searchingwithin what a great analogy.. One guy I dated was exactly like that a pinball .. He just couldn’t stand by his own opinion.. if he hated the colour green but the group he hung out with all loved green and wore green etc then lo and behold he would be loving the colour green and wearing the colour green just to be accepted.. I found this to be a weak character trait and confusing as each time I saw him his opinion would have changed from the last time he had spoken on the same topic. But now I can clearly picture him as piball in the machine being knocked about because he has no idea how to stand up for what is opinion maybe or simply how to be himself ..
I think most assclowns are well aware of their crap behaviour but lack any kind of empathy to see what the fall out of their crappy behaviour is on others…
Karen,that is exactaly what I think.Even though I fell like being nice to him sometimes Im afraid that it will enable his bad behaviour.Im still not over him so maybe I should stay away from him until Im.It isnt natural to me to be cold and distant too but I fell that is what we need to do with our EUM.Plus Im still hurt from what he did after the break up.We tried to be friends but as soon as I cuted the sex he didnt want the friendship anymore.Im not sure if they have empathy too.At least with my exEUM it seemed to me that he just did what he felt like and he didnt stop to think on how it would fell to me.Like for example when he wouldnt contact me for weeks,he would just think that he didnt fell like contacting but if I was bothered,sad,anxious about it not realy mattered to him I think.Anyway I guess you are right,with the EUM we have to be hard ass for our own good.
Anusha: I’m going to write back to you what you said in your post above:
1. We tried to be friends but as soon as I cut the sex he didn’t want the friendship anymore.
2. He did just what he felt like and didn’t stop to think it would feel to me.
3. Example: he wouldn’t contact me for weeks, he would just think that he didn’t feel like contact, but if I was bothered, sad, anxious about it didn’t really matter to him I think.
Why would you want to be nice to this person? He wasn’t nice to you. I’m being a bit hard, but trust me I’ve been here and I used to feel the exact same way–I just couldn’t believe in being cold & “distant”. But then, once I had been away from him for awhile, I realized, why did I care how he would feel or about treating him kindly? Though he was never mean, rude or nasty, he was unavailable and often made me feel empty and/or like crap with his unavailability (many of the same actions you described above). Just know that you don’t need to be nice to him–you need to be nice to YOU. And, I know this is going to be hard to swallow, but he’s probably not thinking that you’re being “cold & distant”–he just thinks, wow, why won’t she contact me? Surely she still likes me? Hmmm…what’s for dinner tonight? Truly, these guys really don’t think very much at all. Best of luck to you.
Hi all,
It’s been a rollercoaster week for me on the EUM front line 🙂
I reieved some insane information two days ago about the EUM I emailed three weeks ago asking to please stop contacting me cause I was moving on and him emailing was just bringing back horrid memories and opening wounds I was successfully healing. Ok a little back story…he rejected me, I imploded, he held me, I ran, he pursued, I turned to him , he ran, same scenario for months. It then turned to phone calls and emails, pretty much everyday for two years, meanwhile he was telling me I wasn’t the one, but the addictive cycle of hearing from him kicked in. We had an amzing connection via email and phone calls, very emotional and intimate, meanwhile I was being fed horrific visuals from him and him playing. I justified it thinking he was coming out of a divorce and just needed time to see I was the one, OH BOY!!! I then found out (by accident) he had a girlfriend and had had one for a year without telling me. so I was thrown into a hurricanes eye at the thought that he had purposelly for a year set me up each phone call with the idea that he was each time with a differnet woman or just come from some orgy or swingers party, blah blh, till I coudn’t take it anymore. I then went into the why her not me phase, hating myself for not being good enough, kind enough, pretty enough this enough blah blah enough. So two days ago, I learnt the truth. They are professionals, him and his girl!!!!, they are professionals of the sex kind!!! He has her nude modelling photos in his phone and SHE prefers these to be shown to people rather than her being clothed. The are part of some weird sex cult!! Oh my god and I thought I wasn’t this and that enough, I have a problem of low self esteem, what do these people have!!! My god, can anyone please tell me what’s wrong with us that we spend years trying to figure someone out and then you learn that it was a complete waste of time energy love, hatred of yourself, I can’t believe I could fall for some one like this. He couldn’t be with me because I pretty damned normal and that’s sooo not the kind of girl he wants. He wants Pamela Anderson! He told me once that was his kind of girl, I thought blond!, not STD’s and sex video’s. I am soo stupidly niave I can’t believe it. I am shaking my head at my stupidity and he got away with playing me for nearly three years. I feel sick and oh so so foolish. I don’t think I can look a guy in the face ever again. It makes me so sad. I’m trying not to hate myself for not being a porn star for gods sake!! And yes we are competing with them!! Life sucks!
madeamistake,I see your point.I know he doesnt deserve that I been nice or care about his fellings when he just didnt about mine but I just have that on me.I just try to be nice to people no matter how they treated me but I guess I just have to change it because is allowing some people to use me.So Im not being nice with him anymore and just been ignoring him.
De,
that is pretty wiggy, but nothing surprises me much anymore in this weird age of sexting and such.
Are you saying this guy is paid sex professional ? If so, it seems to fit the EUM profile, porn is just another version of emo-lite, right up the EUM territory – bodies are things, sex is entertainment. Nothing more.
I might argue, in your defense, that the guy might truly have a side that desires real connection and depth of character, but, alas, like so referenced here, the Arseclown wins out. They are weak, lazy, incompetent when it comes to self awareness and learning.
Take it from me, hold on to the part of yourself that is good and loving, but learn from this to be very careful who you share your goodness with in an imtimate way. And I don’t mean only sex, I also mean developing friendships. We are learning a lot on this valuable site. NML should have a paypal donate button :-))
There are many people who live life on such a shallow plane of existence, and know there is something more, and feel some sort of emptiness, but for whatever sad reason, just cannot get it together to learn to really know and love themselves and then treat others with that same love and care that brings just what they are missing..
We who hope on others, and know and believe in love and kindness as the path to a meaningful existence are like magnets to the worst of the assclowns, I was told that they are always drawn to the brightest stars.
They want what we have, a rich emotional capacity, yet often times they hate us for what we have because think they can just absorb it from being with us. Of course, it doesnlt work that way. And we try and try to help them help themselves, often to no avail.
My challenge is that the EUM’s darkness took away my shine, that is a danger that I experienced and I am now working to recover all that I was before being involved with him. I let my shine go, so I know I can be the one who has to get it back.
In all fairness, I have met one true badarse EUM in my life and I am in my fifth decade. So, I would not throw all men into the category of untrustworthy. But, any relationship that is based on emails or texts will go nowhere with me ever again. Any guy that declares himself EU in any way, that’s it. Ditto for self proclaimed troubled types and whiners. My awareness for red flags is way way up.
In all fairness, this will make me a better person, since I sure can’t do any of the above either. Good luck De.
Im trying to get over my ex EUM and I have been on NC with him for 5 weeks.I still miss and think about him but I know he isnt good for me and is getting less with time.But Im just finding very hard to acept what he did after the break up.I know he is EUM and he wasnt acting like somebody who loves in the relationship but I realy didnt think he would do something like that.We were together for 7 years so how he could just use me like that? How he can be interested to be around me just when there is sex going on? I know that sex always was a big part of our relationship but I never thought it was the main part and the only thing that interested him.But once it was out he not even want to be friends anymore.I realy didnt think he was capable of that.Maybe I had the pink glasses on and was more in contact with him and the relationship on my head than with the reality of it but I realy didnt imagine he could do something like that.
Anusha,
I think every person here has been badly dissed by an EUM/ AC. It’s only the details that are different. That is why we struggle.
I am in about 10 weeks of no contact and maybe it will be like this for you…At first I worked hard to understand how he could throw away nine years so flippantly. I struggled daily with confusion, hurt and anger.
As time goes on I am finally starting to care a little bit less. You will hear over and over from others that you will never understand these people ever, and yet early on you still need to understand how someone could devalue another person like that.
One day I think we finally grasp that we will never understand, but the important thing is it will not matter to us anymore. My goal is this freedom, the freedom of indifference. That is when you know you have let go of trying to understand and have accepted it as the awful thing it was. And thats all.
That’s my theory at least, we shall see. Just remember not to take it personally, hard as it is. Hold on to the vision of you that is the very best and most beautiful, and do not let him take that away from you.
There is definitely a pathology that “assclowns” have. Yes, they want to connect; it is basic to humans. We are hardwired to connect. It is just that when they connect to someone who truly can connect, they then disconnect. The yo-yo ing is what keeps us hooked.
I do think that some ACs can be “cured”, but it would take hours of time and commitment plus a good dose of therapy in order for that to happen.
The thing is: Even when the red flags are/were there, what was so compelling about “him” that made me go there? That, is really more the question that I am hoping to answer.
What in me “drew” me into such an unhealthy dynamic? What made me stay “connected” for as long as I did? Did he love me?
I think he did – as much as he could love anyone, that is.
Even though I have now been complete NC for eight months, I still pine for him. I don’t want him back, per se, but I do want to know what it is that has kept me so “tied”. There is some correlation.
When I “see” him – as we work in the same industry- and despite my orchesting different flights, venues, etc., it is inevitable that I will run into him – I literally sense his presence before I turn the corner. Most of the time, I can avert my path, so that I don’t have to “see” him, but sometimes I can’t.
Anyway. It is as if there is a magnet that “draws” me to this particular man. In my past history, when there is something that is no good for me, when I wasn’t going to get a promotion, when x wasn’t going to happen, I dried my tears, packed up, and moved on – most particularly mentally – I never looked back. There was always some sense of peace. A sense of closure.
It is never going to come with this man. Never. It isn’t in him. So, I have to find it in me to “heal” that wound. If I do not, I will repeat, repeat, repeat in some way or another this trauma. The only other thing would be – would be to avoid relationships altogether, and I want a loving and caring relationship.
Angelina—I can relate totally.
I encountered an unusual AC and have been involved with him peripherally for years. He told me upfront his relationships never progressed; I saw the red flags, heeded them and steered clear. I knew enough from past experiences with EUM’s NOT to get involved, not to sleep with him, etc But he keeps turning up. The magnet you speak of draws me to him each time.
Over several years now he has pursued a friendship with me and has kept the connection alive. He never tries anything physical or sexual, just always keeping in touch and wanting to be involved with me and my kids and me and his child.
Obviously because I let him stay in my life in this weird way, it says something about me that needs work. So you are not alone in your desire to heal !!!
I would like to thank my lucky stars that I’ve found this site.
I believe that forgiveness has to happen, not forgiveness for the person who’d hurt us, but forgiving ourselves for allowing these AC and EUM to hurt us. I for one have forgiven myself and have learned a lot about myself by going out with a few of these AC and EUM.
Recently, my AC/EUM from the 90s came back into my life like an F5 hurricane. We dated in the 90s and broke up in 1998. Fast-forward to May 4, 2009, for some reason my AC/EUM hunted me down to 3 different prior offices I’d been to, and my corporate job. He signed up on Classmates.com site as if he’d graduated in the same school as me so he can see my posts, pictures and request recent pictures and information about my current life. It’s so bizarre that this guy would go to great lenght on finding me. Finally, he reached my current office and the receptionist at my current office gave him my cell phone number.
In the beginning, it was great to hear his voice again, but all of the bad memories and reasons why I’d broken up with him in the first place came all flooding back into my memory. The 2.5 years of ups and downs and me not getting what I need from him, the tears, the disappointments were just too much for me to tolerate and live with.
I immediately put up my boundaries and he kept asking me to meet with him right then and there. The following day, then the next, he texted me and called me and emailed me asking me to immediately meet him for coffee. He told me and apparently, everybody else in his life since 1998 to the present that I was the “one who got away”. He started saying that I was “the best kisser and the best in bed” as if that’s something that would make me jump through hoops to see him. *rolling eyes*
All through the years, he entered my mind, but I never once tried to contact him even though he is a public figure, politically in the city I live in.
I didn’t meet him immediatley. In actuality, my schedule was so busy in the month of May, I didn’t have any time to see him until June 6th, today. So, back on May 4th, we scheduled to meet today. Deep down inside, I knew he hasn’t changed. I think he was disappointed that I didn’t drop everything for him and changed my schedule around to fit his like I did when we were dating. I guess he figured that “I” have changed.
True to his color, 1 week before today, he “emailed” me saying that he’s going to be out of town today and won’t be able to make it. He apologized and didn’t ask to reschedule.
Knowing how he is, he probably found something or someone better to do. He probably has a girlfriend and just happen to “forget” to tell me that important fact.
But this confirms that I have grown, for the better. I have claimed importance to myself before him or anybody else who really doesn’t matter. Although he is on my mind, and as much as I want to contact him, I’m strong enough not to.
I recognized the AC/EUM men much earlier now. I have encountered a lot of them and I actually thank these AC/EUM for showing me the ways of what type of men I don’t want in my life.
I’m learning a lot from the ladies who posts in here. I see myself in some of them. I want to thank all of you who pour you life and thoughts out in these pages.
Aphrogirl, I cried reading you reply, thank you soo much I really needed some empathy, thank God for this site. You made me feel validated and listened to, more than three years of contact with this guy that I thought I had a deep meaningful relationship with. Thing is no he was only in contact with me because he had me hooked and was manipulating me to create a business for him. Yup, me in the office, naked girl on the phone, and the sex thing they are into, from what I can understand is not prostitution but a ‘club’ wife swapping, orgy stuff, it’s very moneyed, all about power. Nothing I could ever contemplate, so I guess I’m up a couple of levels on the self respect issue. Lindsay, please stay away from this guy, he’s seeing you as the foolish girl you were twenty years ago, I would say use this opportunity to give him what he deserved back then, revenge!! and make it sweet! (I won’t be angry for long, I promise 🙂 Thank you and yes, we feel, they don’t, he has never ever shown me real empathy, the true mark of the narcissist!
Lindsay, wow your post is a bit disturbing to me, to think that the EUM culd come back ten years later, do this and still bring up longings for his sorry EUMARSE. I am gonna give your letter the blow by blow of what I was thinking while reading, since it is a well written saga from the frontlines, with the added twist of ten flippin years added to most of the stories here.
“I would like to thank my lucky stars that I’ve found this site.
I believe that forgiveness has to happen, not forgiveness for the person who’d hurt us, but forgiving ourselves for allowing these AC and EUM to hurt us. I for one have forgiven myself and have learned a lot about myself by going out with a few of these AC and EUM.
True forgivness must be earned, it is the hardest of work. There is a lot of good material here on NML’s posts, and a lot to learn from the insights we can share with each other in real time.
” Recently, my AC/EUM from the 90s came back into my life like an F5 hurricane. We dated in the 90s and broke up in 1998. Fast-forward to May 4, 2009, for some reason my AC/EUM hunted me down to 3 different prior offices I’d been to, and my corporate job. He signed up on Classmates.com site as if he’d graduated in the same school as me so he can see my posts, pictures and request recent pictures and information about my current life. It’s so bizarre that this guy would go to great lenght on finding me. Finally, he reached my current office and the receptionist at my current office gave him my cell phone number.”
NOT bizarre at all for the narrcisist, certainly cunning and manipulative, for all the wrong reasons, as was sadly confirmed by the outcome …..
“In the beginning, it was great to hear his voice again, but all of the bad memories and reasons why I’d broken up with him in the first place came all flooding back into my memory. The 2.5 years of ups and downs and me not getting what I need from him, the tears, the disappointments were just too much for me to tolerate and live with.I immediately put up my boundaries and he kept asking me to meet with him right then and there. The following day, then the next, he texted me and called me and emailed me asking me to immediately meet him for coffee. He told me and apparently, everybody else in his life since 1998 to the present that I was the “one who got awayâ€. He started saying that I was “the best kisser and the best in bed†as if that’s something that would make me jump through hoops to see him. *rolling eyes* ”
Ugh, this is the thing he chose to say, after ten years, to ” the one that got away.” Brand new huge huge red flag. That is so juvenile and pitiful in its shallowness. These are not the words from a man, these are the words of a boy. But at least you got to see thats as good as it gets, ten years later.
“All through the years, he entered my mind, but I never once tried to contact him even though he is a public figure, politically in the city I live in.I didn’t meet him immediatley. In actuality, my schedule was so busy in the month of May, I didn’t have any time to see him until June 6th, today. So, back on May 4th, we scheduled to meet today. Deep down inside, I knew he hasn’t changed. I think he was disappointed that I didn’t drop everything for him and changed my schedule around to fit his like I did when we were dating. I guess he figured that “I†have changed.”
Putting him off was good, gave you time to think. But, if your intention from the beginning was to meet, it only prolonged and added to his excitement of getting you to say yes. You became an even bigger and more valuable catch, even more desirable. And this gets important when he moves on the the next stage of ….letting you go.
“True to his color, 1 week before today, he “emailed†me saying that he’s going to be out of town today and won’t be able to make it. He apologized and didn’t ask to reschedule.”
So, this is the way he treats the one that got away. Idealize and discard. Such a silly clown with such a foolish heart.
Of course, you sort of knew he would do this, but what we all have in common here is that we do hold hope and give them plenty of chances. I might have done the same thing. After reading all over on this site, about this move of cancelling with no explain, I have to say, surely this was his point, think about it. ALL that effort to hunt you down, to get to this final outcome that had little to do with wanting to be with you, show you this ” love of his life” and instead was everything to do with knowing you might want him. Not rescheduling is, of course, the big clue that ten years later he is still a narcissistic babe, wanting to use you for his needs, unable to give you anything that you want.
“Knowing how he is, he probably found something or someone better to do. He probably has a girlfriend and just happen to “forget†to tell me that important fact.”
No, no no, this thinking is just plan WRONG about you. The choice of the word “better” insults you. Maybe that is not what you meant, but you did write it.
“But this confirms that I have grown, for the better. I have claimed importance to myself before him or anybody else who really doesn’t matter. Although he is on my mind, and as much as I want to contact him, I’m strong enough not to.”
I find it hard to read that you want to contact him, I am worried that I will always hold this stupid wish / hope for the EUM I knew, and I don’t want to. Maybe, just maybe, you are reeling from the disappointment and rejection, which is entirely understandable, and you confuse that very real insult as a reason to want him ? I hope you can say, upon furthur refection, that you were confused about wanting to contact him.
“I recognized the AC/EUM men much earlier now. I have encountered a lot of them and I actually thank these AC/EUM for showing me the ways of what type of men I don’t want in my life.I’m learning a lot from the ladies who posts in here. I see myself in some of them. I want to thank all of you who pour you life and thoughts out in these pages.”
Angelina brings up the best thing to think about…what on earth is the basis of the magnetism to a person like this? My relationship was more like Lisa’s above, I had to keep it freinds becasue I knew something was off. But the magnetism was still there, the friendship and contact was intense, and had the AC not been so flaky I would have done anything with him.
While I read your story I said ” Oh no, no way” But I have the feeling that if the same scenario happened to me in ten years I might act the same. I know I would at least have hope that he had dealt with his demons, was a changed man, ready to engage fully. But I also like to think that once the email came with the excuse and no reschedule that would be the instant end of that thinking and I would be able to move on so much quicker than I can right now.
I am thinking the magnetism has to do something with the ambivilent abandonment conditioning they put us through with the intense pull in / reject cycle. NML writes that it is relationship crack and the analogy to drug addcition feels true but…. what do we really get from these EUM guys that makes us drawn to them ? Is it what they do with the pull in ? The guy that brought me here had the most intense way of letting me way in, emotionally, from the beginning. That felt like a very deep connection that I was very drawn to. And then he would distance himself, emotionally, just as far on the opposite side of the spectrum. Eventully it was not satisfying enough, the wanting for a whole healthy realtionship became stronger. And the wanting felt so much like an addiction I was not at all comforatbale with and this got me to go NC.
Drugs are a physical addiction, that start off with pleasant feelings but then once the drugs are out of your system you begin the addictive feeling of wanting more. And that also begins the discomfort associated with having an addiction. I wonder if something in the intense push pull sets us up inside the same ways as drug addiction. Maybe some of us are more prone to addction and have to learn to take a much harder stance with these kind of guys to avoid engaging in addictive tendencies. But then, like Angelina asked, I wamt to know why I even want to go there in the first place, so I can beat the addcition for good.
aphrogirl,I have been reading about it and I think is because childhood problems that we stay hooked on the EUM.If you had to fight for the love of your parents when you were child you just get used with it and try to do again with your EUM.Is like you wanted so much that love and didnt get that you see it as a chance to change things and finaly win this time.So instead of walking away you just stay and keep trying to take the love and relationship that you want out from the EUM.
Thanks for your reply to my situation too.Im trying to not take it personal but his behaviour did afected my self esteem.He would act like if being with me was a bother,like he would be always wanting to spend less time together and when he was with me I could notice that he didnt like it and was couting the minutes to go away.That made me fell bad and like if I wasnt a good person to be with.I know isnt true but it did afected me,my relationship with him damaged my self esteem pretty much.Anyway Im working on building it up again.
Anybody here would like to keep contact trough MSN or email? I think would be nice so we could keep contact 🙂
I think that’s a great idea Anusha. 🙂
There really isn’t a group therapy for things like this. There’s AA for alcoholics, there’s NA for narcotic addicts, etc. Why isn’t there one for us who are addicted to AC and EUMs? I think we could apply the same concept that AA has and continue supporting and encouraging each other. I don’t want to break any rules in here by posting my email, but how would we all get together? Thank you 🙂
Aphrogirl,
Thank you, thank you , thank you! 🙂 I sincerely appreciate your input. Deep down, I don’t know why I am still “hopeful” for this idiot of changing. You are right, if I was the love of his life and the one who got away, this is how I’m treated? Like you said, idealized and discarded like I’m sort of a toilet paper. No more.
I think it’s stemmed from the first man I’d ever love, my Father. He has similar ways of inflating my ego when he’s with me, when he wants to be with me, which was not as often as a father should. He was charming, everybody loves him and whenever he left after seeing me, I am left longing for him. He had disappointed me thousands of times. For example, he had visitation rights, he would schedule a time to pick me up for “his” weekend. This man would not show up at all. I used to wait for him for hours and hours until around midnight on the day he was supposed to pick me up, I would give up and go back inside our house and cry myself to sleep. He wouldn’t even call, he wouldn’t even have an explanation. He would just leave me hanging with no regard to my feelings. I’m abandonned over and over and over again.
My Mother who had custody of us kids wasn’t any help either. She abadonned us over and over again, picking guys she’s dating over us, telling them that we aren’t her children, instead telling the guys she’s dating that we are her “nieces and nephews” so she would appear to be younger than her real age. Again, the abandonment was done to us by our mother over and over again, even up until this day. Recently, she’d met a man 13 years younger than her and she’d lied about her age to appear closer to his age. When she “accidentally” saw my sister while she was out on a date with this man, she introduced my sister as her “cousin”. My sister was hurt and she stopped all contact with our mother. I don’t blame her.
My parents divorced when I was 6. My father was not a good father, but I loved him unconditionally. Even though I know all of these things about him which were not good and very painful to me, that was all I know coming from him.
I am angry with my father the way he had treated me. Back in 1992, I wrote him an 8 page letter saying why I’m such a mess when it came to men, all because that was all he have treated and taught me. I wrote that he has that much of an affect in me and psyche and how I don’t know how to go on trusting men. The only men I completely trust are my son and my brother. I would like to die being able to trust a man completely like I trust the only 2 men in my life that matters.
When my father passed away this past February, I was devastated. I’m still mourning his death. But now, there’s no way I can resolve my issues involving him. During his funeral service, pictures of him and his friends dominated the service. There were hardly any pictures of me or his children. I’ve never even met his best friend of over 20 years until the funeral service.
I want to work on this. I want to resolve these issues that I’m going through.
This ex-BF of mine who’d recently contacted me is still on my Facebook and Twitter. I am going to delete him today. I want to have no contact with him whatsoever, even though he has my email address and phone number.
Aphrogirl, this is what I need, the brutal truth sprinkled with sugar. 🙂 Thank you again.
oh the parents, such stories, heres my thoughts
All parents do the best they can, some really cannot do well at all, and some do worse than that for sure. Parents have their own issues and problems. My Mom was drugged most of her life, once when I asked my Dad how he felt about something serious he said ” How do I feel ? with my hands ” End of discussion, I never forgot that.
Later, my dad cut my family off when his only grandchild was five, at his wife’s insistence, because I hung up on her after she swore at me on the phone. After I hung up I was shocked by my childish behavior and called her right back, but she would not answer the phone and I left a calm message. That one confrontation did her in. She is really not a nice person, so it was hard to feel a loss about her, but my Dad, I just feel sorry for and really disappointed in.
So, my parents, well they were who they were. Once I got over my self medicated youth, hey it was the 70’s, I realized it was up to me to become the self confident person that is a force for good in the world.
And I was doing great till I went down the EUM rabbit hole. Like I have said, I am working hard to get back out, like I see the light, and I am crawling towards it. Crawling, not walking, I have been wounded.
But why I ever went there in the first place, except maybe I thought I was strong enough to handle it, is something I want to understand. Maybe its as simple as co dependency/ trying to fix my parental issues, I know family of origin issues are responsible for much of our learned behaviors, healthy and unhealthy.
But I know new behaviors can be learned. This is where I think paying attention, self awareness and strength of character comes into play. Somehow my failing in my desire for the EUM and me to come around and work on our family of origin issues made me regress back a few decades. Dumb, illogical, confusing and a bit scary that I could lose my focus for so long.
But I do have confidence that I can pull out of it. I just wonder what the resistance was, what made me stay with it so long, and why it is taking me so long to get my shine back.
I am glad I wrote the above words about force for good because it says it all. It is up to me to become the self confident force for good in the world that I want to be. So, I have learned about one big hurdle to my goal, despair, in the form of the EUM, that has kept me stuck on stupid.
I like this list site the way it is. If NML does not mind us exploring our issues, while trying to stay on topic, then I think the come and go of many people is a huge plus. I appreciate everyones insights and the thought that others in the world might know what I am going through.
Is allowed to put my email adresses here?
A bit off-topic:
Lindsay June 7th, 2009, 5:00 pm – “My Mother who had custody of us kids wasn’t any help either. She abadoned us over and over again, picking guys she’s dating over us”…..
Are we related? 😐 That above sentence makes me believe that maybe we are. 😐 (The rest of your paragraph doesn’t apply to me; however, I HAVE created quite a distance between me and my mother, just like your sister did.)
Parents don’t seem to understand that what they do or don’t do with/ say or don’t say to their children will affect them for a lifetime. 😐
Anusha,
This blog gets a lot of exposure, some pages get visited and new comments sometimes years after they appeared.
I would email NML with your request to form a group, or create a Yahoo! group or other entity, rather than actually post emails here. When you post an email address, you lose control over who you hear from.
Just my thought.
Brad K.’s last blog post..BR: Commitment, a perspective
I broke NC when I saw the ex-EUM at the unemployment office. Needless to say, the talked with him and felt that after 9 months things had changed. Silly me..he is still the same. BTW, he is both types of ACs, one in the same. Still the same in that he lies over little things, he was pineing for sex with me after telling me how he had been celebate since the broke up with him 9 months ago and how hot I looked etc, when I told me that I wasn’t interested in sex with him, he reverted back to the same AC that I got rid of 9 months ago. He still doesn’t return phone calls or initate them. This time he is pretty tight with his ex-wife. When I was with him, he dispuised his ex-wife, and talked about her terribly. Seems to do this when his harem is gone, he trails back to her. Matter of fact, she took him to dinner, he commented on how flabby she was, they traveled to Florida to drop her nephew off at college, she invited him to Puerto Rico and she was going to pay for it. I am so mad at myself and hurt all over again. He told me all about her but I bet he didn’t tell her that he was in contact with me. It was like I was the other woman. I surely don’t need this type of drama in my life at all. I am going through some things and need supportive, positive people surrounding me, not someone whose intention is to play games with my mind and emotions. I sometimes wonder what I heck is wrong with me that I have not attracted someone who madly adores me. Ok, I am crying now because for the life of me, I think that I am defective. First the ex-husband who was EUM and now this one for 2 years. I feel that I wasted alot of my life and now I am afraid to date anyone else because I don’t want to waste anymore. I feel like a loser.
Today, at 2:30 AM, I started NC with my EUM. If you read my last post, he hasn’t seen me since the 29th (when I went to see him because my ex was staying at my house to visit the kids), when he all but ended our date at 10:30 with “text me when you get home”, i.e. leave now. A phone call or two since then, mostly hang-ups when I didn’t answer, no seeing me on the two following weekends, my texts unanswered on the weekends. This past weekend he went away, but on Thursday, he reminded me that we were going to a concert on Tuesday (tonight, the 9th). He suggested a time to get together, but then added I should come over earlier so we could have sex. Really.
Then, over the weekend, he didn’t call or text. I got a lame text yesterday morning, “how was your weekend?”. He goes away, doesn’t think about me, sends me a text I could send to my grandma. Then he expects I will do what he wants on Tuesday. My blood was boiling. At 2:30 (the dog woke me up), I sent him a text saying I wasn’t going, he doesn’t think about me anyway, why does he even want me to go. I got two this morning, one saying he wanted me to go, the other saying, basically, why can’t you just chill out and enjoy our time together?
What time together? When HE wants it, not when I want it. I emailed him that why can’t we ever get together on the weekend (no, he’s not married, I’ve been to his house many times), when it’s MY free time? Why can’t I be included in things with your friends? Why do you only want me if you can get something from me? I said that the pull me in/push me away thing was getting old, and he now got what he wanted…he pushed me away for good. I then blocked him on my email. I’m done.
If I had a friend going through this same thing, I would shake her and tell her to snap out of it. This website is the equivilent of that, I think. I felt sad for about 15 minutes, more because I can’t believe what I have put myself through for someone who didn’t deserve it.
You asked, “If you want to be in a decent relationship and feel loved, respected, and able to trust, why on earth are you with him?”
I have an answer for you. Coz the girl is damaged too and no well-adjusted guy that would treat you right will want you. Believe me I know. I tired to date these great guys before, but once they find out that the girl has issues, they run for the hills. And you end up feeling rejected and defective.
So what are these girls left with but Assclowns. These guys stay around and yeah it sucks, but the only other options is to spend years alone, working on yourself, being lonely. Are we worth it? Yes, of course, but you also need the proper support to get away from guys like this.
If no one is there for you to help you through this, or worse yet, you have even more people around you that are also bad to you, such as family members who messed you up in the first place or crappy co-workers, that’s why women stay. They feel even their family doesn’t love or value them, treating them like total crap on a consistent basis, year after year. That’s how this happens.
Women got programmed to accept this behavior early on, the treatment continues, she has no one positive or supportive to turn to, the resources to help aren’t there, and boom, she finds herself in Assclown city with little to no alternatives.
So my question is then, what are women in these type of situations suppose to do?
Yes, I have experienced in my lifetime many assclowns and I am vey lucky now to be with a normal man, (30 years.) Over pondering the human psychology of both men, and dare I say women, I have come up with an unique and interesting category for people. I must admit men are though indoctrinated from youth to have a superior opinion of themselves over women, thus far more assclowns are male, especially in relationships.
These categories are more or less to a certain degree since there are always greys in life:
1. warm/cold
2.warm/warm
3.cold/warm
4.cold/cold
The assclowns fall into the warm/cold category which is a dangerous personality. A lot of us are unfortunately attracted to as these people as they are intelligent, interesting charmers. They know how to flatter, say the right things, do the right things to get you into their trap, and once they’ve got you there, bang, the cold water tap is turned on full blast but you are stuck at this point in their web of deceit.
The man I am presently with is a cold/warm personality, he doesn’t try to flatter, charm or convince you of how wonderful he is. To the contrary, he takes his time to get to know you, stands back and observes. He doesn’t need to trap you and won’t. Once he decides he wants you, he commits and there is no yo yo like the warm/cold. No trap is set and doesn’t need to be set and this type of man is frequently overlooked, this type of woman too. Yet, these people are wonderful delicious surprises. The warm/cold was my ex-husband, very alluring, seductive, appealing, charming and in the end vey hurtful. We need to be wary of the charm. I discovered that late in life. Then there is the cold/cold and warm/warm personality, you get what you see, no surprises and these are generally sincere individuals, but once again not as exciting as the warm/cold personality. So dangerous and so attractive. Here is the trap we must all avoid by being alert and not allowing our passions to get the best of us.
So glad I found this…am trying to figure out what I am doing with an AC….we met at a music store, flirted and he let me know right off he was attracted to me and wanted sex…I said no, blew him off and he keeps resurfacing every couple of weeks…he is very confusing…when I first met him, he was living with his girlfriend but said they were on the outs…then when he got back in touch, said he’d moved out and that it was over, but because they work together, he has to keep a low profile if we were to go out…hmmm…so again, I said no and blew him off…So he resurfaced again last week and asked me out for coffee. I went, had a great time–and he told me he has a “curse” where he basically charms the pants off women and then leaves ’em…great. and of course, I am hugely attracted to him…hugely…it is like crack…have not slept with him but would do it in a heartbeat if I knew it wouldn’t kick me in the pants hard….so emailed him last night that I was not a quarry for sex and if that’s all he wanted, he needed to look elsewhere….and he texted back would I meet him for coffee again so we can talk!??? Am so confused and am horrified at myself that I am considering going. help.