Sometimes you have to deal with the awkward situation of an ex who’s trying to be your friend. And I use the term ‘friend’ loosely because the awkwardness indicates that something is off. Whether the seeming friendship is subcode for keeping their foot in your life or trying to basically get all the fringe benefits of the relationship without actually having to do the work that comes along with that, it’s crucial to ensure that you don’t marginalise yourself. Don’t accept a demotion!
Many people I hear from used to be the girlfriend /boyfriend, and now they are the booty call. Why? Because they decided that they really, really wanted to keep this person in their life because, you know, they were ‘such good friends’. Apparently, they had ‘such a good relationship‘. And so by trying to keep somebody in their life who probably didn’t and doesn’t have enough love, care, trust, and respect for them, they’ve wound up in this pseudo-friendship. Now they’re breaking them off a piece of sex from time to time or stroking their ego and not in a relationship.
In my video, I explain why somebody who is doesn’t make a great boyfriend or girlfriend is unlikely to make a great friend. There are exceptions to this, and that is where there probably was friendship in the first place. Or where you realised actually that you were better off as friends. But if you broke up because the person was an asshole, they’d be an asshole as a friend, too. Don’t go there.
Make sure you know the difference between friends and really not-such-a-great friend. Don’t allow yourself to be played down by anybody. Don’t allow people to take advantage and creep in and take from you what under ordinary circumstances you would only do if you were in a bonafide committed relationship.
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Excellent advice! It’s so easy to fall for the ‘friends’ thing when your self esteem is low and you are still confused from the fake relationship with an ass clown. Run, don’t look back!!
Wanting to keep in touch may seem harmless, but if you have a problem with bad relationships, the solution will include a close examination of yourself – and the choices you make about who you will associate with.
Respect for yourself, and a need to avoid dodgy people, demand that you re-examine everyone around you. That most especially includes any ex. As a minimum, every ex you ever consorted with, was chosen while you were making relationship mistakes.
That means that choosing to be with the ex was part of your problem, that you chose him/her for the wrong reasons, and you ignored all the signs and reasons that people like any of the exes were actively a problem for you, and actively harmful to you and your self image.
In a case where the relationship doesn’t work out, that your interests or his/hers change, there may be a chance that continuing as friends will not be harmful to you. But your skills had best be up to snuff, on assessing character, honor, respect, and trust. Because allowing a dodgy character to hang about will keep people of good character from noticing you, and you won’t learn to appreciate people of good character while you still drag your morbid past (the ex!) along with you.
Cool, Natalie!
I like Natalie’s clear sightedness that trying to just be friends is just aother ‘fall-back position’. That helps me a lot.
At my lowest moments, I always would think that the best thing is that we ‘just be friends’ and I have tried to assume that position with him, telling myself I cannot expect anything from this person romantically or relationsip-wise so its best just to be friends. Guess what? Natalie is right; it never worked out that way. I always ended up having sex with him anyway, so what was I? A f*ck buddy? I think so!!
Also I was never content with being ‘friends’ – it is a very lonely place to be when you have invested in the hope of a relationship that was never on the table – when you want to give and receive real lasting love.
Don’t be friends with the guy! He’s not your friend… if he was you would not be reading this site!! You would be able to talk to him! And he would want to hear you. ‘Friends’ is just another “all on his terms” settlement.
xx to all.
Amen!! I have to work with my AC and have struggled with trying to be the “nice girl” and not the bitter ex. Then I read something on this site that changed all that:
My low self-esteem didn’t cause him to act that way, it just allowed him to act that way.
This was not some decent guy who deserved another chance and my attention and care as a friend. He had not acted as a friend, with respect and love, when he didn’t tell me the relationship was over because he didn’t want to have the awkward conversation. He just wanted me to “pick up on the signals” and get that things had cooled off and changed, yet keep me around as an option. Not the actions of a friend. After only 3 emails as a “friend”, I broke all contact and have maintained it for months. I could not handle the demotion, I knew I had not given up hope at that time and was still just hanging on, hoping desperately things would change. I thank god they didn’t. Friends are people who care about you, not some times but all the time. They do not try and sleep with you, treat you with disrespect or offer friendship only on their terms. These guys are not friends and any woman who thinks they can be simply hasn’t given up hope or seen him as he really is yet.
My rule from now on. Don’t ignore your body reactions. Your body will tell you. If you feel anxious or suspicious about being friends again cause you doubt their “genuine intentions” – trust your gut. It is always right. Always. So if you have to THINK about it again, if it might be an good idea, there is already something very very wrong.
Hey,
I just had a thought & realisation about my ‘ex’ (the 18 year long booty call). Jeece Ive come such a long way its unbelievable.
Anyways, the last time we spoke was in June, after NC for a bit (since March) where we bumped into each other and NC ended because of this. Prior to that we broke up in August and ended contact in January (long I know). But atleadt I havent gone near him at all since August which is was a major acheivement for me and this particular guy (we broke it off and shagged back numerous times).
The pattern that has emerged since Aug 09, was him getting in contact ( and me at the begining) every 2 – 3 months. I ignored him, until we spent a weekend togetehr at a festival in close proximity, where he then tried to convince me we could be ‘friends’ ( I admittedly did suggest having a
one nighter with him but I KNEW it was not the start of anything but it never happened thank god!). He said ‘maybe something could happen in future’ LOL HA HA”!
I came to my senses and told him to feck off.
Then when he tried to contact me in june, he sent me a msg saying he would like me to be ‘a pain in the but right now’ and he is thinking of me. I did reply with one word saying ‘pathetic’. Which he replied to saying he still loves me. One low where I was thinking of him and wondering if his game is back on night I sent him a msg saying come round mine…
He rang me and said he was confused and that he wasnt into it I said fair enough, I was a bit horny see ya later. He then decided to text me again saying how I could be a much better more beautiful person if I didnt disrespect myself like that. As hes turned over a new leaf. I said I wasnt rreally interested in that I just wanted to see if he would come ( and this is TRUE i would NOT have done it I was playing games yes I know its dumb but when we were booty calls and then so called ‘relationship’ I aparently was the ‘missus’ if that is what I was then jeece hate to think what the wife will go through). He would NEVER come to mine and I hated it. I started going to his all the time in the relationship at first because of my housing situation, after it changed he would not budge.
Then came this long text conversation about how much he cares about me and loves me and how i shouldnt be thinking like this anymore and how Im such a beautifl person who still needs to work on my self, how he would drag me to councelling. It ended with me saying how I loved him too but we have nothing left to say to each other and how he should leave me alone.
Then I changed my number and blocked any chance of him contacting me online. i finally put a stop to the stupid dialogue. The best decision I have made !
I KNOW that i was just as bad as him, but I know that when I was at my lowest he tried to destroy my self worth completey and he showed signs of being physically abusive, Basicly when I said I wouldnt be his lacky, I settled for booty calls, which I tried to get out of but kept going back then he would try and convince me that he loved me and I would briefly agree his terms. until swearing and ignoring him for a month unti; my depression brought me back! oooooooooooh
I know now that I DID NOT LOVE HIM. i thought I did, but I was looking for a way of explaining my insane behaviour. If it was love but mis understood love then that MUST be why im still hear dealing with this EUM.
Now NC is pretty easy, but I know now that when I do bump into him he still says ‘ I still love you and you love me’ my reaction will bne either to ignore or will be to say ‘so your still in denial/fantasy land then’
.
Naty,
I’m so sorry you are going through this! You are on the path to bigger and better things. There are some similarities between our EUM/ACs as I also tried to have a last booty call with mine (he was leaving the country) to which at first he responded positively, still trying to pressure me in to being friends and then ultimately canceled after intentionally running in to me at a place he knew I’d be by claiming that we didn’t have much to say to each other, just like your EUM. How they can act like they care then claim they don’t have much to say is incredible. I’m sure it’s just that they have nothing rational to say! These guys are all about control, the moment you start to run away they want you back only so they can then reject you. I now know how much my EUM controlled everything, when we saw each other, how much, his emotions, everything. I still sometimes think of him wistfully but then remember that he pretty much conditioned me by his behavior to be addicted to him!
Hi everybody,
I just wanted to share this situation with you, from a different angle and different point of view.
I know a guy (I am not involved in any way with him,only a friend of a friend of a friend) who has a harem of female friends and ex girlfriends.
A few months ago he met a girl and started a romantic relationship with her. He told his harem he is now in a relationship and not available anymore and the harem backed off.
2 weeks ago he broke up with this girl (he did the decent thing and told her honest and cristal clear) and the harem found out. Immediately the harem was back on the phone to him, inviting him over, inviting him for dinner,going out together etc.
Now the thought occurred to me that some of the girls in his harem are there willingly and kind of offering themselves to him for all the usual AC activities without any encouragement from him whatsoever. The simple message that he broke up with his girlfriend set all those girls in motion. I have to say he is definately EU and maybe an AC as well.
Maybe you could call this ENABLEING and I think this is were the problem is.
I think he is encouraging them on some level. How do they even know he is broken up?
I’m sure he is bamboozling them with the same sweet words he used on this girlfriend that he didn’t much care for, since he kept his harem on standby and then broke up with her. Who know, she may even have been demoted to booty call herself.
Sure the women are responsible for their own self-preservation but that doesn’t diminish from the fact that he is an AC and an emotional deceiver.
You’re right, we are a big part of the problem. As long as we continue to let men get away with the crap, they will continue to behave poorly. Are we so desperate to have a man in our lives??? Sad!
Its a good call that NML is making, I ‘ve been there and stayed there for around two years after a relationship was over,seeing my ex partner,saying we were friends…essentially fuck buddies really. Each time it happened, I was thrown back into turmoil for a few weeks, hoping that he’d call me and say that he loved me again. He just gradually respected me less and less and the sex was colder and more technical each time. I finally realised that he had only ever saw me in terms of his sexual attraction to me and that although our relationship had lasted for nearly four years I had been treated really badly during the bulk of it, gradually lowering standards and expectations till I was a shadow of my former self. I read a great article about Don Juan Syndrome recently in a book about ‘the abusive personality’ and my ex partner ticked all the boxes. He truly despised those he desired and could only respect women he found unnattractive. On a positive note, I am beyond his clutches now and very much restored in terms of my own worth and self esteem. He’s still at it though and will go onto do this, I believe until he’s a very,very old man.
O.K., I can somehow get my brain around Don Juans despising those they desire (maybe partly b/c they feel some loss of control over the sexually attractive female). But respect those they find UNattractive? WHY?
This mini vid came at a good time! Not because I’m now the booty call or anything like that but b/c its a reminder the intentions of our douche bag ex’s. Mine up until last month had been contacting me on/off after we broke up and after I confronted him with the fact that I knew the reason why he really dumped me was b/c it was over someone else he had gotten pregnant and became engaged to (now married). Even his own friend told me the reason why my ex was contacting me was b/c he would try to have an affair with me after he married this new girl. FAT CHANCE. I was always #1 and there is no way I would ever become the other woman to his new wife. I have too much pride and self respect for that.
Oh and same friend told me the reason why my ex also married this girl is “cause she is just a wallet for him”.
He sounds like a real prize! 🙁
Allison
Yeah tell me about it. Nice guy. He was what NML calls a “future faker”. And up until the breakup, it was bliss. Then all of a sudden, he just turned on me and out I went. Like a bag of trash. The girl he was cheating with knew he was cheating so good luck to her when he starts screwing around on her. Good riddance and I’m better. But still… it still gets me angry thinking about all he’s done to me. I am in therapy now and that’s helped made me realize what kind of a person he really is.
Beagle,
He sounds like such a user and creep. He must be an amazing actor to keep all this stuff under wraps.
How is it that this man still has friends, as it sounds like they know about his crap behavior.
Very much so! He used me, I believe, to help him raise his kid when his son moved in with us. Didn’t want to do it on his own so why not move me in…? With his new wife, using her for money. Who the hell knows what else he’s done in the past?
I dont know why he still has friends. And all those friends who used to come by our house and hang with us, were all at the wedding. The venue where the reception was held, my ex and I looked at it together for us. I dont understand how his friends approve of this shite behavior. That only says to me they are no different.
Great actor = narcissistic personality, or some sort of personality disorder. Total facade. Those people are very good at it. Its scary.
My boyfriend broke up with me a month ago and wanted to hurry up and be friends right away – wanted to be able to still call on semi-regular basis, hang out, and be in email contact. I truly did feel we were very good friends in spite of him doing some things that were harmful and not very thoughtful in our relationship whenever a conflict arose.
So why was I unable to be his friend? I think it was because I felt rejected and it feels insulting to have someone basically tell you that you are not worth working things out with, but you will do as a friend. And the risk of getting more hurt if you do end up being intimate is too great a thing to risk.
On one hand, I can see he cares and it’s nice he wants to be a friend and on the other hand, I am suspicious of this because this is how we got back together after the last breakup.
He also tends to be a bit mentally and emotionally controlling and either I am paranoid or I don’t really trust him. It has become a combination of both.
Even though he has hurt me, I still want to see if a friendship is possible I would still like to perform with him. I just know that will take a good while, though so I am going no contact until I feel ready. If he is real friend, he’ll be open to that.
Right now I am dealing with a great fear loss and that I am losing someone who I felt so conflicted about all the time – “He’s the one I feel I am supposed to be with from here on out no matter what” to “He’s not the one. It is somehow going to have to end. I know if I stuck around to be his friend, we might get back together, but I also know I can’t do it and so I am taking the high road and going with the part of me that doesn’t really trust him not to try and have his cake and eat it too on some level,.
I also figure why should I give him anything after what he was not willing to give the relationship in the end? Why should I make it comfy for him to move on and drag me behind him somewhere. Thanks, Natalie for helping me find a point of pride in this too. I could not have done with without your help.
It is truly a puzzle, you’re good enough to sleep with, be a shoulder, confess their shit to, be ‘a friend’ but just not quite good enough. They seem unable to understand why this could be a problem.
I think if we hang round it’s partly in case they change their minds (what about us taking relationship decisions instead of leaving it to them?).
Or it’s us trying to be fair and reasonable with someone who hasn’t acted fair and reasonable, heaven forbid we think they think we’re crazy!
The friends thing only works (and even then rarely) if you feel that during the relationship you had equal power and felt that he cared about you and your feelings even if it didn’t work out. If, throughout the relationship, one of you was calling all the shots and had all the power, then that person wil continue to call the shots and have the power. BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT THEY DO. It’s nothing to do with you. A duck quacks cos it’s a duck and an EUM manages relationships on his terms cos that’s what he does.
In any case, I would give it a good 100 days of no contact. You can’t just leap from being his girlfriend to his friend with no transition period.
And beware beware beware the demotion to booty call. If you do nothing else, never sleep with him again.
Cat
I just reread your post more carefully. Forget friends. This guy is not your friend. He is a controlling user.
If they disrespect or hurt you in the relationship, they are not your friends. We should not fool ourselves into thinking that these people will suddenly be loving and supportive in a platonic relationship, it’s not who they are.
We also shouldn’t kid ourselves into thinking we want to be friends, when in reality, we are accepting this ‘deal’ to remain in their lives-he’ll finally recognize how fantastic I am.
By keeping these people in your life, it keeps you from moving on, and most importantly brings more pain than when you were together. He no longer has the responsibility of a relationship but receives the benefits: booty call, shoulder to cry on, ego strokes etc……
Not worth the misery!
Yes, when I agonize over losing the friendship, what I am really agonizing over is losing him as a lover and maybe blowing a chance if there is still one in the future if he were to change and/or I. That is no way to go about dealing with heartache to put one’s self in limbo like that. These ex’s will
just find a way to emotionally or physically exploit that and make it worse.
Some of the things he did was yelling at me whenever I confronted something real – accused me of accusing him and attacking. He lied about his late night drinking (if it was not a problem, why lie?) and he was not sensitive to me about not staring too long at other women in front of me. He thought it was no big deal, but was not really sensitive to what I needed. I asked him to never hang up on me and he did, knowing that put me in a really bad place. I was not perfect and probably egged on a lot of conflict, but I think he had a short fuse and I don’t do well with that at all. At 58, he does not take good enough care of himself and uses a lot of weed and that just bugged me over time. I grew up with an alcoholic father who turned tables on everyone too and this just put me in emotional PTSD a lot. I miss him though and there were a lot of good things and I do think he cared to the extent that he could. He was always supportive of me through a lot of things. So it’s been pretty hard. I’m in withdrawal over NC right now. Very hard. Thanks for suppport!
Hi Lesley Binnie
Sorry about what you went thru, but I have to be honest, It’s good to hear someone express what I feel I’ve been dealing with. When I first started seeing the guy that I’m seeing now he made a statement that has stuck with me – “you pretty girls leave guys heart broken”. I was still stuck on stupid at the time and figured I could PROVE TO HIM that this pretty woman wouldn’t hurt him (teehee) You can imagine the things I’ve endured trying to “prove myself” to him right? High levels of abuse and sexual humiliation. I have to say that that statement that he made early on in the relationship was always replaying in the back of my mind. Whenever I was feeling punished by him, I would remember that statement and reading what you said I KNOW there’s a connection. I’ve just been finding it hard to wrap my mind around the fact that there are men out there that will disrespect /hate or punish you just for being attractive. It’s retarded. My question to you is, how did you end your relationship with him? It must feel good to be away from the sadistic craziness.
Any news on the Cosmo blog awards? I voted before the deadline. I can’t wrap my mind around how this blog wouldn’t win 🙂
BR,
You cut all forms of contact-delete all contact info and block-and never speak to or see again.
If you want to get your self-esteem and sanity back, this is the only way to go. Your happiness is up to you!
Ask yourself what you’re getting from this unhealthy relationship?
OOPS. Disregard my last sentence. I just saw the new post. I’ll be voting again.
Hi Allison,
Yes, no contact is the best, cleanest way to break up with an Assclown. I’ve done that with more than one assclown in the past. He’s resistant and uncooperative (to say the least) but I’ll keep trying. 🙂
If you block him or change your number, he can’t get through.
Don’t respond when he tries to contact or he will know you’re not serious. If you have to, threaten him with a restraining order. Do what you have to do to be happy. It’s up to you.
Hi BRaddict. Thanks for comment… I was finally able to end it when I realised that it didn’t matter if I was there or not…if he hadn’t got me to respond, it would have been someone else… Just in case you think I ‘m mad, this guy promised me the world when we were first together… I was the solution to all his problems….his ideal woman.
I loved him with all my heart, unconditionally and thought it was for keeps. I don’t need to go into details but the reality of the relationship turned out to be something else. Allison and NML are dead right, completely on the button. Cut him out of your life, if there is someone on the tv that reminds you of him,dont watch,change no,move away,I also got a bit of counselling help cos I was broken up,poorer emotionally and financially but listen, and please believe I am in a different place today,it doesn’t happen overnight but you will recover. One day you will waken up and it’s over. Honestly.
@LB: Good to know. I am doing my best to discipline my mind to stop replaying things, finding the red flags, unthreading all the nonsense. The simple fact is that I just did not know that someone would or could say one thing about their feelings for me, get me to do all sorts of practical things for ‘our (fake) future’, and then completely pull the rug (and, of course, essentially blame me and my lack of perfect qualities for his action). But, I need to stop looking back. I am doing all sorts of things to stay present and be open to the future, but there is still a shortness of breath there, like I can’t quite purge the hurt and loss (and, let’s face it, humiliation) from my system. It’s slowly getting better, and I know once I have sorted out a few other things in my own life, this will not seem so enticing or affect me so much. Actually, I read somewhere that letting go is, in fact, easier than holding on, as evidenced by the fact that when we hold on/replay/relive these sorts of events, our body naturally tenses up and becomes frightened. It was very helpful to be reminded that this will be over, that I will recover and that, in all likelihood, I won’t always be so wary and tense (you should see me around the many men who are interested in me – I am a red flag zealot…which I presume will settle down with some more time).
Elle – Staying present and practicing mindfulness in the present is helping me more than I can say. When I think back on all the stuff I went through and then start worrying about how this breakup will affect my future in certain ways, I simply HAVE to pull myself back to NOW. I am safe in the NOW. I am not safe in the past or future when I start thinking of my ex. I even tell myself, “Oh, don’t go there – because you know there will be no end to that one once you start.” Either way, as I go through my own breakup, I realize that I am probably right where I need to be and it’s a bit normal to obsess on things. It’s part of getting over it and moving on, believe it or not.
Thank you! It was very sweet of you to respond. Feeling a lot stronger this week. Think my brain is finally finding the whole thing less interesting and even pretty comical…Will, however, certainly remember (and need) that idea of not being safe in the past or future, only in the present. That’s a worthwhile one for all sorts of regrets and worries! Ta.
@Elle,you describe the red flag feeling so well,but also I can tell that your getting there ,because you’re going over it and over it, classic replaying….this is about your own sense of failure or humiliation and it’s exactly what I done. I think this is a necessary part of putting it to rest. What helped me was to ‘return to myself’, do the things I liked to do,see people I loved,not get into any serious shit for a while. You do need to be on your own for a while too,you need a bit of sanctuary to come back to yourself. The only thing I keep of his is a poem he wrote, which was flattering to me(of course!!!)but when he wrote it he was systematically shagging my admin assistant whom he’d met on trips to the office! I kid you not…. I keep it to reming myself of his Assclown ways. Its so hard I know, my heart is with you in getting over this because the pain is excrutiating. Be aware that he may tell you anything to get you back.., like he’ll die if he doesn’t see you…this is not cos he wants you its cos he wants to feel good about himself. Don’t be scared to be wary, thats actually a good thing. You’re sorting out the wheat from the chaff. Remember you deserve the best. Remember how you were before you met him. I ‘m stronger than ever now,if it helps. Thinking of you.
Since going no contact for 11 days now, I truly see that there was no point at all in letting this ex have a foothold in my life and as soon as I didn’t stroke his ego or validate him for trying to call the shots and he got the vibe to back off, I have not heard from him since. I am so glad I did that though I worried I was a b***ch since then. By now, I realize what a narcissistic head-tripper he was and I have no doubt he’d make a the same kind of friend too – simply because I am woman he once had control over and had had sex with. The thought of even running into him makes me ill. So ladies (or guys) – just cut them off at the quick while you can, ESPECIALLY if they weren’t nice to your feelings or disrespectful to you while dating. You would be amazed at how getting some time away under your belt can help you see things more clearly. Because as long as they have that foothold in your life, you will always be somewhat under their miserable spell. Thanks so much for comments to my previous post. They really helped.