If you imagine driving a car, after your initial acceleration, you still have to hold it steadily in order to go anywhere and have a quality journey. Sometimes you have to give it a little more ‘gas’, sometimes you have to gently apply pressure to the brakes, and sometimes you have to slam down on them – this is the same as holding your own in relationships.
The only position for you in a relationship is to arrive to it as an equal party and remain equal. You can only do this if you know yourself and don’t think that being yourself, having boundaries and saying NO is a danger to you having a relationship.
Particularly for women, many of us ‘arrive’ talking the talk of holding our own and then in a blink of an eye, it’s gone or we don’t walk the walk but keep up the talk. We’re putting our lives on hold to wait around for someone that asked for our number to call, relegating friends, family and even work into the background, open 24/7 like a Tesco superstore or 7Eleven, and we think it’s totally normal to explain and reexplain disrespect.
Your value, your values, boundaries, sense of self and self esteem are not a ‘game’ or only there to serve the purpose of getting someone through the door.
If your sense of self and self-esteem go into a decline or are abandoned as soon as you attach yourself to someone or get a sniff of interest, it’s like taking your foot off the peddle. Much like in a learner car with a driving instructor, whoever you’re involved with has the option of taking over the ‘footwork’. If it’s a temporary blip, they’ll likely chalk it up to no big deal but much like a driving instructor, if it becomes clear that you’re not holding your own and in fact are incapable of it, their confidence in your abilities diminishes rapidly and you communicate all the wrong things about yourself.
The wonderful thing is that you pay a driving instructor to recognise where you need work and help. In relationships, it’s not the job of the other party to teach or force you to hold your own.
When you don’t hold your own, there’s either a major shortfall in the relationship or the other party will grab onto the power.
The respectful person that knows their own mind, will recognise that the type of mutually fulfilling relationship they potentially want cannot work. The less you hold your own, the more alarm bells that ring, is the further you diminish your own value.
The opportunistic person will take you on a drive to Booty Call Town, or Periodical Ego Stroke Town, Passing Time Town, Rainy Day Option Town, Last Resort Town or even Abusive Town.
You’re not that desperate.
Both sexes are looking for relationship partners that can hold their own, not doormats.
Doormats don’t get more dates, commitment, respect, happiness etc – they get people rubbing their feet in, putting themselves on a pedestal, not feeling like they have to commit, and being treated like an option.
Desperation, even in its more subtle forms is highly unattractive.
If you’re willing to take your foot off the peddle so soon into a relationship, to be indispensable, and to devalue yourself, and you don’t even know them or aren’t in a mutual relationship, it begs the question of what you’d do for someone you know or have even the flimsiest of ‘commitments’ with?
You may think you’re communicating that:
You’re available
You’re very interested
You’re in love
You love them unconditionally (read: without boundaries)
You’ll do anything for them
But you’re actually communicating that you’re desperate.
You’re communicating that you’re too available – “Let me abandon my friends, family, work, health, sense of self and personal time to make way for someone I hardly know/who takes the piss and treats me like an option.” You’re saying “I don’t value my time” and truth be told, if you’re willing to do so much or so quickly for them, they assume this is how you are with everyone you’ve been involved with even if you say different.
You’re communicating that you have a disproportionate interest in them – How can you be willing to be and do so much off the back of a potential you’re hoping for but that they’re not living up to? You can communicate that you’re interested without being desperate and throwing your life and self respect away.
You’re communicating that you don’t love yourself enough – If you did, there’s no way in hell you’d be so quick to abandon yourself or put up with rinky dink behaviour. You’re actually saying “I love you or the idea of what you could be more than I love myself.” and “I’d sell me who I’ve known since the day I was born for someone I’ve known for a wet week/month/year.
You’re communicating that you have no limits – For someone that you hardly know or has shown they’re not available for the relationship you want, that’s like a red flag to an assclown bull or for someone half way decent to hit the eject button.
You’re inadvertently communicating that you’re desperate – How the hell can you be so indispensable? Leave something off the table and be indispensable to yourself!
They’re just not that special and you’re not that desperate. Really you’re not.
You’re at a stage in life where whether you realise it or not, you can take care of you. Even if there are things that you’re aspiring for or need to address, you can take care of you. If you don’t think you can, you’d better figure out how before you get out there on your dating saddle. You’re not that desperate for a relationship that you need to throw away everything and unless someone is adding to your life rather than detracting from it, never let someone think that they’re irreplaceable when they’re not even in the same relationship with you or treating you with the basics of love, care, trust, and respect.
Relationship smart people of both sexes recognise inappropriate behaviour, have their own lives and aren’t so afraid to walk away that they’ll keep banking on someone else that keeps disappointing instead of banking on themselves.
They value themselves, their time, and their lives – not just any ‘ole body can come along and have them lock, stock and barrel without stumping up to a mutual relationship.
Get your foot on the peddle of your life and hold your own because it ensures that you ensure you’re treated with love, care, trust, and respect, filters out those who seek to detract from you, and ensures you’ll recognise when you’re not being treated like the valuable person you are.
Only you can hold your own so don’t make decisions based on fear or the idea that if you give it all up that they’ll reciprocate, because by loving blindly and giving excessively, you’re missing the point that they’re not holding their own and being mutual.
Oh and of course, as soon as you recognise that they like busting up your boundaries, put your foot on the peddle and leave them in the dust.
Your thoughts?
Check out my ebooks the No Contact Rule and Mr Unavailable & The Fallback Girl and more in my bookshop.
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I truly believe that at 40 years of age , I am really starting to get this. The recent months have been my epiphany. I am stating to feel good about myself . By myself. Thankyou Natalie! But I still have self esteem to build and was wondering when you are going to do a workshop on the subject.
Great, again, Natalie. Thanks! It’s soooo helpful and re-affirming.
I so get it now, as Annie says… and I am so pleased about that.
I can’t believe it. I feel almost like a different person than I was a year ago. I feel so differently about myself – but I also have a lot to work on. My foot finally went down hard on the pedal, he’s been thrown out of the car and I’ve taken full control of the wheel and the pedals; I am in the middle of a U-turn – right back to ME!
Thank you for helping me see that I am *always* good enough.
I have been working hard at “holding my own.” Though I have been experiencing some intense anger lately. Anger at myself. And then at the people I’ve let abuse me. I know there is nothing I can do about how I gave myself away any which way somebody wanted me. But I have flashbacks of times that leave me feeling like “my god, did I really do that to myself??!” I’ve let a man spit in my face and continued to date him. And let the same man threaten to kick my a$$ or have someone do it….for no reason. I let another blame his drug addiction on me and had a “thing” for my mother. And still another …….list goes on. I know this is an ongoing process of working my way through all that. I took my foot off the pedal and all my attention went to them while my life barreled off into a ravine. I had NO filtering. Pretty much anyone that I could at least tolerate was game.
I’ve been having anger toward the EUM that I still have to see everyday. Gag. Anger that I knew from the beginning not to go there but did anyway and was tossed to the side like I have been before. These emotions don’t make any rational sense. But I’m angry that he’s got some other woman vying for his attention.
And I don’t even want him anymore. It’s like there’s this sick part of me that still wants his attention and is jealous. Is this “normal?” It’s making me crazy.
One triumph, however , happened last week when I said something to a woman that seemed to not go over too well. My normal inclination is to apologize for pretty much any little thing I do that may be considered slight. But this voice in me rose up and said, “Nope. Not doing it. Not saying I’m sorry anymore for being who I am!” That felt good. And lets me know I am making progress even in the midst of these conflicting emotions.
color
I know what you mean about the anger. We try so hard to be “nice” ( agreeable, understanding, sympathetic) that when we allow ourselves to get angry it can be overwhelming. Of course, it’s not good to be angry all the time, and it’s an emotion that needs to be controlled (no, you can’t punch that stroppy receptionist) but it’s perfectly okay to get angry . As my brother says “it’s good to have light and shade”.
I’m much more emotional than I used to be. I “feel” my emotions more and wear them more lightly. I don’t try to force myself to be “nice” (ie “flat”) all the time. I actually enjoy a bit of a verbal scrap (you may have noticed!). I don’t mind disagreeing with people or if they disagree with me – if we were all the same, we may as well just stay home and never interact with people.
Anger is a normal part of healing from a crappy relationship. You can’t skip that bit, otherwise you get depressed or resentful or sick You get stuck and can’t seem to get over him.
Just go with it, thump some cushions, and get on with life. The emotions connected with him will come and go but, one day, you’ll barely remember who he was. If I try really really hard I can recall the feelings I had for the ex that I cried over for three years, complete with depression and anxiety, but, mostly, he means nothing to me now. No-thing.
grace,
Yeah, the anger comes and goes and tends to come hard when I see her around him. It’s so much easier when an ex is out of sight and somewhere else in the world. It is confusing because I would think I would be over it BY NOW and not feeling angry. Good for you that you like to or are comfortable with disagreeing with others. I have the people pleasing down pat and can be very nice or as one lady calls me a “sweetheart.” It bothers me if I piss someone off….depending who it is. But I WILL get over that eventually since I doubt I can possibly spend the rest of my life hiding behind this mask of “i’m so nice.” Can be tiresome to live one way outwardly and be feeling an entirely different way inwardly. And, yes, I will be beating the crapola out of some pillows real soon!
I so identify with what you said in your post, colororange. I’m in the process of No Contact, it’s been 1 month. I don’t feel or want to contact the EUM but do feel some intense anger towards him and myself for letting myself get into such a self destructive relationship.
The EUM also has another woman (classic fallback) he’s had for a while, although I suspected as much when he was seeing me. I have felt similar to yourself. I don’t want him back but feel strangley annoyed/jealous. My way of getting out of that feeling is to just smile to myself and feel sorry for both of them. One is EUM who will never sort himself out unless he gets therapy or has a really negative experience and the other is a woman in denial who thinks she can change him if she waits long enough, is different or blab blab etc… Remember, we have been where she is and we know how the pattern goes with these type of men and the negative feelings it eventually leaves you with as a woman. The anger and psuedo jealous feelings will pass with time. Just see it as part of the healing, moving on process. One day at a time.
Somewhere you got the idea, the impression that in order for someone to love you you have to allow them to treat you anyway they want and if they don’t they won’t want you and will leave you. And if you treat them like gold and give them your all they will treat you better and love you back. You know the old saying, treat others as you want to be treated.
That’s what I discovered as to why I allowed people to treat me like dirt. I wanted their love and attention at any cost. Even if it cost me my self respect. Knowing that helped me alot to change that belief and helped me stop seeking out love from people who disrespect me and aren’t capable of being in a relationship with me with care and respect and both feet in. Being physically and verbally abused was easier for me to stop allowing to happen. But it was and is the more covert abuse and mistreatment which is harder to discern and defend myself from because it’s not as grossly apparent. I am getting better at ferreting these actions and behaviors out and protecting myself from them. We all want love, but it’s who we try to get it from (EUM’s MM, and other unavailable types) that we need to stay away from. That’s why I am so grateful that NML has put up the description of what code amber and red behaviors are and that we need to learn and look out for them. And don’t waste your time with people who treat you as an option.
I think this comes from trying to please our parents when they jumped all over our case if we misbehaved. If we continued to misbehave or did something our parents did not like, then love usually was kept from us (was in my case). So I learned from the get go if I didn’t act “right” then I wasn’t getting any love. But, then, I wasn’t getting much love anyway because of the dysfunction that already existed.
I see it all the time in grocery stores when kids are acting out. The parents say some of the meanest things to those kids. I know they’re under stress, but some of it is just unacceptable and reminds me that I do not want to be a parent. This stuff starts at home. Then it is carried out into the world until we get help and come to our senses.
This post was perfect timing for me. Just came home from the second and last date with a certain man. Code amber on the first date last week, but I wasn’t quite sure so I went on second date….code red behavior. The interesting thing about it is that I was watching my process and learning to Trust Myself! I was very aware of my gut the entire time and what it was telling me vs. what he was telling me.
Holding Your Own couldn’t have come at a better time…thanks Natalie!
Like all your articles this is so spot on. I am older than the first poster but it’s still relevant. This is the kind of advice my mother gave me and it worked and then I forgot it and thought I was big and grown up. I give this advice to others but I only just realised I was having more hangovers than parties. It was fun but I’m worn out now.
Today is a hard day for me: a big birthday and the stress of a performance tonight, but I am reassured that “to put my foot on the pedal of my life and hold my own” is crucial to end the torment of not being recognized and treated as the valuable person that I am. Thank you, Natalie, for the blessed reminder.
Bless you… this post came at a perfect time. Just what I needed to hear! I love when that happens 🙂
Thank you Natalie!
Ditto Olivia, seems like Nat just has a knack for knowing what we need at a certain time.
I so completely agree.
Seeing it is not always believing it. Otherwise people wouldn’t be here I guess.
But reading these posts every two three days helps so tremendously.
*sidenote* It may sound childish, but only if you lived nearby, I could come or call and get therapy by you. My first session is coming up and actualy afraid he will tell me opposite things than you do.
Sofie: If your therapist tells you things opposite to Natalie’s views, please just leave therapy. Believe it or not, you can. In fact, I think believing that you don’t have to put up with crap, even if it comes from your own therapist, is very necessary for your healing. There are bad therapists out there. But there are good ones too. Good luck!
Thank you ! I guess you can’t really say something after a first session, since *although I broke down several times* this feels like an introduction. He said our first goal was to get some balance and calm me down in general. I very much agree with that.
But I also feel, although early, that concerning the EUM, I will have to come back here enough to keep me convinced of my decisions. Like, he said ‘he is entitled to move on and so are you’ while I’m more like ‘after one louzy month ? And that’s what, normal ?’ I can’t move on, I’m too stuck. At least I see that much 🙂 But hearing that ‘he can’ just got me mad and the fact that ‘I can too’ completely doesn’t interest me at this point. Off topic. So I’m off 🙂
Sofie – sounds good so far. Good for you for taking control and getting some support – well done!!! xx One step at a time!!
Sofie
I found that my therapist (an older man so gender has nothing to do with it) was perfectly in synch with Natalie’s advice. I think most counsellors make their bread-and-butter from women who’ve suffered abuse (from parents, partners, rapists even (sadly) and want to help us to become strong and free. I don’t think he will tell you anything different to what Nat says. But if he does, like Elly says, you can quit. There ARE bad therapists (the worse ones hit on their clients so you need to make sure you are comfortable with him) but, thankfully, I’ve never had a BAD one, maybe a couple of ineffective ones but that may have been down to me.
Way to nail it Nat! Peddle to the metal! So very true. It has taken me years to get this down to an artform. Guilty of all of the above. One thing I have really found is that by loving myself and trusting me – what they think really doesn’t matter – I know what counts and what doesn’t. A relationship can end tomorrow whether I walk out the door or they do or for some reason without notice (death) its over – the result will be the same, I will cry, I will grieve, I’ll call all my gfs, drink a bottle or wine or two, wipe my tears, go off to the gym, get my sh*t together again and move on. I have the tools, I have the guts and above all – the belief that the sky is not falling and I am not chicken little.
Movedup – hear hear! Absolutely bang on! It’s great when you finally come to that realisation and trust yourself to get through anything. You can then totally be yourself and not have to answer to anyone.
Previously i always had that panick – that ‘what if he goes off me!’, which more often than not was for no reason whatsoever – usually after the initial buzz and high of first getting together was calming down a bit, and the bloke in question and I weren’t all over each other all the time. It’s so easy to start morphing and seeking validation (drama) to get that intensity of that attention back and then you just lose track of yourself entirely and start becoming more and more doormat-shaped. An AC will take advantage and an available bloke will just wonder what on earth happened to the great, ‘together’ girl he first met and who this needy, slightly bonkers creature is.
I too trust that, whatever happens, i will get through it. No one can get me down for long. And i don’t have to change for anyone. Take me as i am, or not at all! 🙂
“Your value, your values, boundaries, sense of self and self esteem are not a ‘game’ or only there to serve the purpose of getting someone through the door.”
True freakin’ story! I should also add that with an assclown, it doesn’t even WORK as a game, because they’ll be looking for ways to circumvent any boundaries you enforce. This goes double if it’s a boomerang assclown, because the fact that you’re even entertaining another go with them lights up a neon sign that all is not well in Self Esteem Town. Trust me, I’ve done the legwork on this one ladies! In my experience, it got to be like the world’s most dysfunctional poker tournament, i.e. “Okay, she expects me to be around with the view of spending time together and seeing if there is relationship potential here. So I’ll say that’s totally what I’m doing (it’s not, but she won’t take my calls/sleep with me unless I say that’s what I’m doing), but I’ll be sleeping around on the down low/checking out other options behind her back. She thinks my cards are all in, but I’ve got a bunch hidden up my sleeve.”
It is an amazing feeling finally having the confidence to hold your own and wave bye bye to unavailables. To communicate that you are not desperate, that you and your time are valuable. Walking away from red flag behaviou is your first surefire sign that you’ve recognized your own unavailablity and are taking action to change. In my experience this really didn’t come to me until after the withdrawl stage of NC…not until I started to heal and really look myself in the mirror as somebody that needed to sort out her issues. I had to become fully aware of my own patterns and why I did them. Now, being able to hold my own and recognize that I am a woman of value has been priceless. Thanks for the help Natalie and all you other readers!
As usual, you’ve got it spot on Natalie. In the brief time I was with the xAC, I could say I took my foot completely off the pedal and watched as he pointed the car towards a lake, dropped a brick on the pedal and jumped ship at the last moment. I’d never met anyone as manipulative as him ever before in my life. He drove me crazy, he drove me insane, and he nearly drove me over the edge!
Thank goodness I found your site and started to learn to love myself. That self esteem is still building, and though it’s been nearly 7 months NC I’m still putting the pieces back together after he completely shattered what little self esteem I had over the course of 9 months. It’s a work in progress.
I’m not stepping into the dating world until I feel comfortable and confident enough to know for sure I will step into it loving myself completely. It’s only then I’ll know I’ll be able to confidently place my foot on the pedal with hands on the wheel to have that balanced, healthy relationship I hope to have one day. Many, many thanks Natalie.
Dear TeaTime,
I hear that, I’m 6 mths NC after a 9 month relationship where my xEUM boomerang’d back and forth into my life and I let him! The emotional and physical impact of being in that situation affected me greatly and I’ve been surprised that it’s taken until around now to get my head around things/how he & I handled things/get my depression over all of this to lift.
Thanks to Natalie’s wake-up calls, a lot of soul searching, reading, taking care of myself and looking fwd to rebuilding my life, I finally feel like my confidence/self-esteem is building again. There’s been NC with him since 6 mths ago and he tried to make contact via a chat application on my phone about 4 months in, which I ignored – very lazy communication and no further attempts since then, which is definitely for the best!
I am working on me and my future right now and am not dating yet. I’m in no hurry, as I have so much to attend to in my own life, that it’s seems almost counterproductive to give up time I need to spend on me, on a possible relationship. I’m sure my feelings on this will change in due course and I’m not unduly worried about how I feel right now, I see it all as part of the process of healing and getting to know myself again. Baggage Reclaim has definitely helped me to get my head back on straight too and it’s funny how (as everyone says) these posts seem to arrive in my inbox at just the right time.
Keep up the good work TeaTime and stay positive. 🙂
N2MF x
N2MF – I’m glad you ignored his sorry attempt at contact! Yes, this is all a process of healing. We should take our time and be patient, and when we are ready we can start with a stronger foundation. We ladies here at BR will stay strong together 🙂
You are absolutely, positively correct! I wish I had learned these concepts much earlier. In fact, I am just beginning to get it, now. I am old, too ! 🙂 Been through enough scenarios to be tired of it and to want something healthy going forward.
“The opportunistic person will take you on a drive to Booty Call Town, or Periodical Ego Stroke Town, Passing Time Town, Rainy Day Option Town, Last Resort Town or even Abusive Town.”
Ain’t that the truth!!!! Not being a user myself, it is a rude awakening to find how many users there are in the world. We would like to be trusting, but cannot be blindly so. “Nice” and “intelligent” and other desirable traits do not correlate with “emotionally available”, “kind”, “respectful”, etc. I plan to pay much more attention to what lies beneath.
My mom told me – a tree can be beautiful on the outside, but be infested with termites inside. I just came out of a “relationship” with an amazing (on the surface) emotionally unavailable man. I was too distracted by the “amazing” qualities and let them make me assume too much about him. Looking back, I could have much better read certain signs that there was absolutely no ground beneath the relationship – it was all “on the fly, in the moment, when he felt like it.”
As with everything in life the key, I think, is confidence.
The more we work on ourselves and invest in ourselves the more we have to offer. Damaged goods tend not to attract quality interest and so my philosophy is to invest in what shouldnt get taken away from me (namely myself) and then hold onto the sense of identity that I am building.
Does that make sense?
Perfectly….
Cc,
I agree with you.
I am a naturally easygoing person, but even so, when my ex danced all around and eventually over my boundaries it saddened and aggravated the hell out of me. I couldn’t concentrate on anything else. Each time an incident happened, I had to enforce limits. I talked about it with him, explained my reasons why. He would fight and fight, how he didn’t realise and had he realised, he would’ve acted differently and on and on…and I gave him chance after chance.
From things he told me, I also understand that he is the kind of man that “get’s off” ego wise about boundary pushing women, because to him if they’re hurt and yet stay, it means they must “care” ( his logic), about him a lot.
It was more ego scoring, it was an ego boost for him. It’s basically another form of validation for an EUM. It’s like he needed me to be consumed with him, positive or negative attention, didn’t matter. It was exhausting!
But there comes a time when you don’t want to feel like a policewoman, you don’t want to have to be in the position where you’re “enforcing laws”. You want them to act like a decent citizen and quit dancing on the edge of your relationship, cause it’s disrespectful. Someone needs to respect you. If he’s not respecting you, then you have to respect yourself and leave.
Aura,
that’s very revealing! If his method to find out whether a woman cares about him is to test her loyalty by hurting her… so dysfunctional, self-defeating, abusive, and sad.
I guess it’s the ideal complement to those who believe that proof of love for them is if the other person ‘improves’ for their sake. Thus the two create a perfect stalemate…
Colororange! I have been there a few months ago, we did not know better, now we do. Read Natalie s article a few days ago about admitting mistakes. I promise you that if you keep up the work of protecting your boundries and doing things that make you feel good, excersize, meeting good friends, a walk in the park. When you remember your behaviour and feel bad , just remind yourself that at the time you did not know any better. You will feel good about yourself and you will laugh at yourself as I do now. X
So true Aura,
” If he doesn’t respect you, you have to respect yourself and leave.” It’s so distracting from looking at ourselves to always have the focus on him and his needs whilst devaluing our own. The good feeling you get from respecting yourself is night and day to the crappy feelings that persist when you don’t. So glad I found Natalie’s blog when I googled,’honesty in relationships’. After 2 years of reading her thougts on EUM men and the fallback girl, I find her insights never get old and the support I’ve received is immeasurable.
As much as this situation has thrown me for a loop I think that I am holding my own. I am not allowing him to act as if nothing has happened and to continue to do mundane things as usual…sorry but he isn’t going to pretend nothing happened – I am going to make sure of that.
In talking to his “friend” the extent he did he obviously lost value for me (and our kids) and our relationship somewhere along the way.
I gave excessively to our relationship and to our family and he took complete advantage of that. He used up all of his sensitivity on his “friend” and left none for me – what a complete arse!
Thank you for writing this. I finally got away from my ex-EUM and broke the little “spell” between us that caused me to disrespect myself over and over.
I find myself single again, largely by choice, but feeling a little desperate for someone else to make me feel wanted again. Another man walked into my life but he really isn’t good potential. This is the real test to put into practice everything I’ve learned from Baggage Reclaim over the past year.
This article was a great reminder that I need to stay aware of my boundaries and have faith that the right man will walk into my life. I don’t need to settle for emotionally unavailable men anymore out of desperation.
Ive been reading these blogs for a while now and one thing stands out repeatedly with the women writing here, and that is how they keep chasing men that are not interested in them and who treat them poorly.
I honestly can’t understand why women invest so much energy into men who they barely know and who’ve usually done little to warrant such an investment.
Laine,
It’s called low self-esteem.
Allison
Agreed, though it doesn’t always look like that. I remember a while ago on BR we had a female SURGEON being jerked around by a man. I thought, wow, you’ve fought hard against all the odds to get into a field where women are a tiny minority (less than 10% in the UK) yet you can’t give this bloke the boot.
And winning someone over with beauty, humour, charm etc looks like confidence (especially to men) but it can mask an uncertain person who needs the validation of winning a challenge. I think that’s at the heart of it.
Lots of women (and men) do it. I see it all the time. I think many will grow out of it. Others get stuck and Nat has to give us a helping hand. I was especially stuck cos of my history of physical and emotional abuse/neglect as a child. The benefit of overcoming that (mostly, a part of it will always be with me and that’s okay) goes way beyond avoiding crappy relationships. It’s enhanced my whole life.
I am that surgeon I believe! I ended things with the assclown eum nearly a year ago. My self esteem took a huge battering. I believe it was probably low before, a lot of me not thinking I was really that great, despite outwardly ‘having it all’. I have been building my self confidence up for the last year, and been reading this blog for over 6 months whilst seeking answers for ‘what went wrong’ and it has helped immensely. I am now believing in myself, not just pretending and now been dating a guy for 3 months who has never treated me better. Now, I have to disagree with some of Laine’s comments on here… I have been raised by caring parents, encouraged to be confident and happy – anybody who meets me would be shocked that I have any self doubt. I am succeeding in a tough male dominated profession and never had a problem with looks, getting on with people or receiving male attention, yet with men I was *previously* attracted to… Different issue. I have gone after the men who have shown me some interest, had chemistry with and chased after the zsa zsa zu… When the guy I hankered for started to blow hot and cold, it made me think I must have done something wrong and that part of me that has always had to work hard for something, felt the need to win him over, and in the process… Bust my own boundaries. I think that’s where half my hang ups on this guy came from, my own regret at letting myself down. I was left with anxiety, and when I think back to how awful I felt, and how disrespectful this guy was, I regret every day I was involved with him and every red flag I let go. I previously valued guys so much for making me ‘work for them’. I think it had something to do with always having to ‘work hard’ for anything I have wanted in life; especially my career. Anything worth having takes hard work. Not healthy for starting a relationships – two people have to have their feet in, as I have learnt from NML. Now for the first time, I’m dating a gentle, caring guy who shows me love consistently. He is not ‘my type’ but having had poor experiences with that (*insert wolf in sheep’s clothing*), I had to give things a chance to blossom with someone who was showing me so much potential and kindess. This makes me wonder how on earth I put up with that crap before… Still not sure if I am with ‘the one’ – it’s early days, but I sure would not like to go back to the eum assclowns of my past. I think it is unfair to think women here go looking for abuse though.. I know for me, when I fell for the clown Grace mentions, it was because I thought he was a ‘good guy’… It’s that initial show of good behaviour that sucked me in. We can all get it wrong, but sure, I propagated the insanity….
I am sure you are right Allison, in which case the men aren’t necessarily AssClowns, perhaps Its the women. Sorry to be so blunt – some call this tough love 🙂
Laine, I find your comment hurtful in that it suggests that most of the time the problem lies with us women and that some of the men we’ve identified as assclowns and mr. unavailables are actually nice guys that have become victims of our imagination.
These relationships are two way streets. Yes, most of us here have self esteem issues and whatnot. However, what most of us here have in common is that we have encountered men that take advantage of that fact. Emotionally available men do not take advantage of women in our shoes. That is the difference.
As others have said, be grateful you do not see relationships the way most of us have. We know we don’t see things right, which is why we’re on BR trying to heal and get out of the cycle.
Greetings from Texas all. I’m on holiday now until mid July but wanted to quickly comment after seeing Laine’s comments and some responses.
An assclown is someone who at best takes advantage and at it’s worst abuses someone. Calling a spade a spade doesn’t offload any responsibility that any of us may have so there is nothing wrong with referring to someone as unavailable etc. Unavailable doesn’t equal AC as if you’re involved with unavailable you’re unavailable yourself, but all ACs are unavailable.
You are not ACs so don’t even sweat it. Laine’s comment is just her perspective and I think rather than fall into the trap of justifying your existence or trying to change Laine’s perspective, just let it be rather than inadvertently fanning her flames.
Good people do not take advantage of others. Period!
You stated you had been reading this site for some time, I am curious as to why you would make that statement? Some of the stories are downright outrageous and emotionally abusive. True, we allowed theses men to treat us like garbage but, that does not give someone the right to do so.
I agree with you Alison, a good person just will not treat another like crap! The eums which get the assclown labels are the ones that try and make out how damn great they are, and treat the women they are involved with so poorly. Showing crumbs, coming in and out of their lives with no other intention but to get a quick ego stroke and check the door is still open. I was in a position of meeting a great guy, lovely person, he was very wealthy and for whatever reason, I was not seeing anything developing romantically. Did I take advantage, start treating him badly? Nope. I would be ashamed of myself if I did. We are thankfully, friends now, no ambiguity. If I had treated him like an assclown there would have been no scope for that. I want him to find love, and if I call him, it is purely from a place where I care for him as a friend, no ego boost for me. The assclowns of this world are self centred nasty pieces of work! Laine, there is a difference….
Is it really a feeling (low self-esteem), or rather learned behavior? When I was a child or a young teenager, deep inside, I knew that I was smart, attractive and well-behaved. However, whenever I acted according to that belief, my completely insane and destructive mother punished me. Needless to say, I learned to act like a pathetic loser. At that time, it was probably the only way to survive, or it seemed so (frankly, this *#%&§”$* momster of mine didn’t even shy away from thinly veiled death threats).
“Learning” the lesson of acting like a loser was an incredibly painful process. So painful that I had to forget about it entirely. To make things easier, I made myself believe I had indeed low self-esteem. This was less painful than facing the truth, even during most of my adult years. Consequentially, I’ve chosen “partners” and “friends” with whom I could act upon those beliefs and stay stuck in my denial.
Now I have to “unlearn” all those lessons, which is another very, very painful process and might take a long time. Thank you, momster. I didn’t deserve that. But now I am an adult and responsible for myself and my healing, no matter who made me sick.
ellyB
knowing something is not the same as believing it. I’m sure on paper jennifer aniston KNOWS shes beautiful, sexy, funny, successful and a good catch. banging body as well, or maybe that’s just my opinion. however, her relationships suggests that at some level she doesn’t believe it. i hear it’s quite common among actors. disclaimer: i know i don’t know her, i’m just using this as an illustration. I may have read her completely wrong but I we know women where this applies.
of all the people in the world, shouldn’t your mother love you the most? if your momster (love it) was horrid to you, it’s logical for a child to think “there must be something unlovable/weird/strange/wrong/hateful/difficult about me” rather than “my mother is a ***&&!!!”. to a child, especially a baby, their mother is the whole world to them. low self esteem doesn’t quite describe what the effect is. it’s something right in the pit of you. it’s not in your brain, or in your emotions. it’s not something you can explain or reason. but you know it’s there. or is that just me, lol?
My Mom was very similar, but there were no death threats.
I don’t know what favors they think they are doing by doing what they did. With mine, my whole family and I would keep our successes on the down-low. How crazy is that?! All b/c I have a sibling who wasn’t doing so well in school and b/c I was “forced” to grow up with 2 sisters (another family) who hadn’t done as well as me in school and weren’t from as successful a family as mine. My sister, who is a great deal younger than me, she never was “kept down” or “kept humble” by my mother, and was never abused by these sisters. When my sister talks about trips she takes (b/c she was always allowed to, unlike me and these sisters!), the sisters get jealous. But when I make a joke about what my sister is wearing (e.g. jeans under a really cute mini dress–that I bought her!), which my sister knows is a joke, the sisters have the nerve to TELL HER in FRONT OF me that I am jealous! Oh, and my Mom would always tell my sister that I was jealous of her when she was growing up, when my sister as she grew up would always hear about how great a student I was.
How in the world is this good parenting?
Outstanding analysis. You shoud be a writer. Or shrink.
Used
Reading that, I’m kinda glad my parents were equal opportunity and treated us all the same. As adults, now, we get on really well and I would trust my siblings with my life. Even more precious than that, they trust me with their children.
I used to think my sister was “favoured”but, looking back on it now, that makes me laugh (and not in a good way). My sister didn’t feel favoured and maybe your sister doesn’t feel it either? That said, I wasn’t there.
I’m chinese and quite english too, I’m good at blanking people, especially if they start to bother me. (As an unintended bonus, it’s gratifying that people who don’t know me well find me aloof, mysterious and intimidating which is kinda hilarious). Truth is, I get stressed and panicky if I let myself get wound up. For me, holding my own can be as subtle as just not engaging. Again, that’s me and doesn’t work for everyone. I do like reading your comments by the way. They are sparky!
Allow me to explain one perspective from my own experience.
Why did I do that? Well, I had very little self esteem. I was a perfectionist driven by validation and reward. To me, guys who were nice and seemed interested in me were both boring and terrifying. Boring in that they didn’t give me, the perfectionist, any challenge. Terrifying in that they always seemed to like me more than I did myself, and by having little self-esteem that didn’t take much.
To me, guys who were jerks, unattainable or who were simply not interested in me were much more attractive. I liked the challenge of getting them to like me. I guess I watched one too many chick flicks and truly believed that’s how people fell in love. And, perfectionist me, was driven by the fact that I would never be fully rewarded, and the challenge always continued. The fact I had low self esteem made even the smallest eye contact or the chance exchange of smiles validation to keep going.
It’s weird to step out and look at my behaviour now, but when I was in it I totally believed that’s how love operated. The man should act cold, uninterested, and maybe even act like a jerk. That’s when you know you’ve got a good one. I’m thankful I’ve snapped out of it!
Brilliantly put Tea Time. That certainly describes me and my own experiences, well to a T!
One thing I might add from my experience and I suspect many others’ here, is that we are repeating relationship dynamics learned as children. If you are a child of a parent with narcissistic qualities then what appears to be relationship insanity to outsiders, seems perfectly normal to us. We have never known anything different. It is only with repeated failure, that we finally twig. Interestingly enough, in trying to get back into the driver’s side and take control of our own car, the town we often have to revisit is childhood.
Well here’s hoping you never find yourself in such a situation, Laine.
And at least the women and men on here are waking up to the fact they can and do deserve better.
As mentioned above it all comes back to what you believe about yourself and what you have witnessed and experienced in life, so if your life has been good then be thankful you have the right mindset for a great relationship.
Tulipa
These experiences are not all negative. Well, they are, but some good can come of it. As my counsellor said “it’s deepened you as a person”. If I hadn’t had the experiences I had, I wouldn’t have understood the depression and anxiety that a dear family member went through, for instance. And I’ve helped friends through crises because I understand. I don’t make them feel worse by criticising or telling them what to do. I know I can get rampant here, but in real life, I’m much more tactful.
Not all people who’ve had our experiences are affected the same way. Some seem to boing right back. We’re all different. And that’ s okay. It’s okay to be sensitive and to question yourself. but, yes, sometimes we have to be a bit hard on ourselves and do the “tough love”.
You’ve done terrifically well.
Good point, Tulipa. I think most of us have been victimized for the first time at an age when we really had no control. Therefore, we should not beat ourselves up for past mistakes. Most of us simply didn’t know better. We are NOT responsible for our “illnesses”. The only thing we are responsible for is our healing.
Tulipa, it is not just a matter of hoping I don’t find myself in such a situation. Life brings many people into our orbit and not just in a romantic sense. I meet people all the time, everyday in fact, that fall at different places along the continuum of who I let into my life and inner circle. Friendships, work colleagues, friends of friends as well as romantic partners……I make the decision whether I let them in or not. If I am not treated with respect I withdraw and move on. I think blaming men and calling them assclowns deflects the problem away from the women who are finding themselves in these go nowhere relationships. It absolves responsibility and the cycle continues.Emotionally healthy people will not find a person who treats them with disrespect as attractive. The answer lies within each of us. Namaste.
Laine,
I agree! And, I also think the majority of us see our complicity in these relationships. I was 50% of the problem!!
The good news is, i have learned. 🙂
I am in complete agreement with Laine, but I would not have been a few years ago when I was in the throes of love addiction.
The most bitter and moving moment of my healing was when I realized I was just as Unavailable as he was.
Whatever “we” think we are, there are none of us assclowns as described by Natalie (being EU is not the same as being an assclown!).
Assclowns treat other people badly; we treat ourselves badly by being involved with one, so there is a fundamental ‘agenda’ difference; we may be complicit in our own misery, yes; and that is our crime but we are our own victim as well as his – how much harm or misery do you think the assclown suffers in these involvements… let me hazard a guess.. emmmm… none?
(except perhaps to his own over-inflated ego and sense of entitlement when we finally learn some sense and self-worth and ditch him for good)
I never made the point that I disagreed with Laine.
My point is how great for Laine to have never had to struggle with these issues to have never found herself in an EUM situation to have had the right skills and intution to make good choices for herself.
I on the other hand have to re learn a lot of things and take that responsilbilty for myself and the decsions I have made in life, many that have been made with poor judgement on my part and what may seem so simple and obvious to you, Laine, wasn’t to me.
Maybe in the past I have blamed the man and sort solutions to fixing the man thinking that would fix all that was wrong in the relationship, but I have stopped that firstly simply because it doesn’t work you have to stop blaming and name calling and look at yourself the one that you can fix and must take responsilbilty for.
I agree, Grace, some people that I personally admire very much have had an awful childhood etc. but come out the other side making good decesions for themselves. I am not one of them but I am a work in progress and admit to be annoyed by Laine who swoops down with her own judgements but has experienced nothing of what I have and who is to say if she had she wouldn’t have made the same stupid decisions I have and found herself on the other side of the equation.
that reaction is so deeply ingrained, and it doesn’t feel like ‘oh I must be having an insecure moment’ at all; you’re so right TT it’s like a thrill, a challenge, and it is addictive. This time it will work, this time I’ll show ’em, I’ll finally attain perfection! Of course it’s a challenge, it is damn hard work to always be charming, brilliant, and cheerful.
My parents, esp. father, are quite micromanaging and perfectionist, perhaps even controlling…. always with the best of intentions… [sigh] Once the constant critique is internalized, it’s really difficult to recognize it for what it is: negative self-talk, miscalculated ambitions (could go both ways, too much ambition as a set-up to fail, just like no ambition) the need for validation, etc. Once I became a parent myself I could hardly stop myself from micromanaging my own children, and watching the grandparents do the same to them (again with the best of intentions) opened up deep old wounds for me.
It really is programmed in there. It makes everything like you’re swimming against the current — not just in relationships. Life is exhausting when you constantly worry about what others think about perfectly acceptable things, while you’re in desperate denial about true shortcomings and mistakes because it would feel too devastating to admit a real darn lapse because your parents never taught or showed you how to just shrug it off… or better yet learn from it!
Cavewoman
Yes it’s the challenge. “If I win THIS fight (THIS fight of trying to win over the EU), it’s like winning THAT fight which is the one I REALLY care about (THAT fight being the Old Fight of trying to get our parent’s approval, or at least stop em abusing us. I was never gonna get approval. I realised that ship had sailed before I even got to school.)
Trouble, is the Old Fight gave us all the wrong weapons for dealing with adult life. Denial is fantastic for a child. She’s too small, too inexperienced, and maybe she can’t even speak yet. What’s she gonna do? Walk out? Slay her parents’ with her devastating power of verbal reasoning? Hit them back? Or will she pretend it’s not happening? Pretend it’s not that bad? Make a lot out of crumbs? Keep trying … wonder what’s wrong … what can she do different? I only fully realised this from having five nieces. They are/were so small, they need so much care, love and attention. Every day! Several times a day! For years! Even when the are tired, hungry and stroppy. Especially then in fact.
I’ve finally got to the stage in life, thanks to Nat, that I’ve given up this fighting. I’m like a boxer in the ring who lowers his gloves as if to say “I don’t even have to defend myself against this feeble attack”. I hold my own with no drama, everyone else can push off (in a non-violent, mutually consensual way of course).
Go away boy, and take your doughnut with you.
I just watched this principle in action again: the game, the challenge… the EU came by the library again. Apparently after all, he won’t be going out of his way to avoid me any more. Last time, when he said it was good to see me, I felt like smacking him. This time I wasn’t so curt, we small talked very briefly, and when he flashed a smile upon departure, with his breezy ‘Nice to see you, I’ll be back’ I got the old giddy triumphant feeling (Oooh he’s happy to see me, he’ll be back, I’m so curious, will he have the nerve to flirt with me?! etc) as if waiting for an excuse to get suckered in again. There I was, getting drawn into quicksand of my own creation. My own slippery slope of justification. All I had to do was not be aloof — after all I can’t hold a grudge forever; then I started feeling like I’m such a nice fun gal, and since a nice gal such as myself is nice to him, he must be all right… right? Wrong, of course. He isn’t all right, he’s still the same insensitive ass who vanished for almost 5 months without so much as a word. I seem to be forgetting it already! Now I have to slap myself back to good sense lest I wonder off to la-la land where in my imagination he starts asking me on dates and introduces me to his family. (I suspect that’s why I lightened up: I’d just had an encounter with his brother and his wife and kids, and they just look like such regular good people.)
My form of denial, my coping mechanism from childhood is tuning out and daydreaming of a deeper connection with that special person. The worst thing about la-la land is that meanwhile, REAL life goes on but I’m only half present. My 4 months+ of uninterrupted NC helped me notice the effects of my conducting imaginary relationships. It makes me absentminded, error-prone, distracted, careless, uninspired and uninspiring. The little lapses and mistakes start piling up. I give a lot less than 100%. All these years I was tuned out, I was really stealing time from myself. Career, children, household, reading, dancing, anything … almost anything would have been a better investment in myself.
I have always consistently opted for some fantasy over the things that those Other people do. The well-adjusted ones. Even as a child I knew I was different and I could see it was easier to be like them than to be like me, but I couldn’t see why. At least now I can.
Thank you Nat for this post. I am an extremely easy going person who loses myself in both male and female friends. So no wonder I would lose myself in a man I loved. His unavailability just made me try harder to be more available, more accommodating and more interested with no limits on his behavior. He knew I was his after only two weeks when I was the one texting him the most, leaving love messages daily on his phone and saying I would be home all weekend, every weekend!. Between booty calls, the occasional all weekend visits followed by weeks of absence, I was the one always waiting for him. He even once said, I was so easy to love and that he liked me that way. Stupid me thought that he meant he loved me and I should stay the way to keep his love.
My NC ended when he called me because he needed me to take him to work and pick him up because he was in a car wreck and had no car this week (he could of afforded a rental car). I should have refused, but after not answering his texts all night, he called me upset and said I was his girlfriend, why was I ignoring him. What was wrong with me? I caved in, so now I’m back at square one. He is around now because he needs a ride. But come this Friday, when he gets his car back, how long will that be? I feel so defeated and not sure if I have the strength to start over again.
Vanja, only you can defeat you — please don’t! Just because you did him one favor earlier today doesn’t oblige you to continue all the way through the end of next friggin’ week.
But just out of curiosity, why is he not on the same page with you about the girlfriend stuff? Is he hard of hearing, does he have selective memory? Or did he fail to take a hint? Even AC’s –unless they’re physically abusive– deserve one unambiguous plain and simple breakup.
Hi Vanja,
When I read your post a couple things came to mind that I’ve been through with two unavailables. One was a few years back. I had this thing going with a different guy at work who had a g/f. We emailed, text, and hung out a couple times. I tried relentlessly to win him over. But he was too preoccupied with not getting his a$$ caught though he went along with me like it might go somewhere. I was doing this behind my boyfriend’s (at the time) back. Talk about loving the drama.
Anyway, after months of this, I finally ended it on my own. He’d still be friendly toward me at work and luckily I did not have to see him too much. But at one point we had a training we needed to go to. He caught me in the hallway one day as I was going to the break room. Out of no where he asks me if I wanted a doughnut since he brought some in that morning. I was like wtf?? I had hardly talked to him in months and immediately thought something was up. Well, the short of it is, he hinted around at least 3 times for me to give him a ride to this training and there were PLENTY of other people at work that could. And if I had, then what??? I’d be thinking oh maybe he wants me now! But I did not take the bait. I blew him off and went about my day. He wouldn’t have much to do with me for months and then all of a sudden he wants me to give him a ride after offering me doughnuts?? I think not! I knew he was trying to use my liking him to get me to do that. Interesting that I could smell the bulls$it back then but have a hard time with it now….
The other is I caught the eye of a man in college once. He was attractive so naturally ever so often I’d look at him in class, not like crazy stalker, but a look. He was looking at me too. I eventually figured out the girl that sat next to him was his WIFE! Then I started feeling weird and quit looking at him. Then one day he comes up to me in class asking if he could borrow my notes. Now, he sat WITH HIS WIFE clear on the other side of the room and came all he way over to ask ME for my notes. There were at least 25 other people in that room including a bunch sitting next to him. My radar went off and said no way! He didn’t get any notes from me and that was the last of any gazing at each other. So my point is some of these men once they get it that you like them they try to use it to their…
Well I defo needed to re read this again tonight. Today, I hada a chat with a guy friend who’s just moved home, I gave him a card to celebrate this yesterday. This eve when i saw him he asked me if I wanted to go out with him in his new town, as i know it much better than he. Which I would reaaaaly love to do but:
this offer was for midnight after he’d returned from a concert, it would involve me driving 15 mins to his town, also he has a girlfriend (not living together).
Now I’d like to remain friends, so i suppose driving over to go out with him late at night is just gonna make me look like a booty call and not be a good step in the friendship direction… as it might put me in a different light?…
So if he does call me & ask me over, not sure how i’m gonna refuse it now, seeing as i kinda agreed on the spot… also want to stay and maybe develop a friendship with him… any advice very welcome, plz!
Budding,
Would you do this for a girlfriend? I wouldn’t do this for anybody. It’s too late and sends a poor message about your boundaries.
You’re also sending a message that you are very available and a possible booty call. If you were his girlfriend, what would you think of this arrangement?
In the future, I would say that, I had changed my mind, as the hour was too late.
Yes you’re right. No it’s not a very savoury arrangement at all. It’s very mixed signals.
Needless to say I have done this type of thing in the past for/with other people, having always loved going out dancing and nightlife. Maybe it’s got more to do with my love for drama than my love for me, the latter of which I obviously need to pay alot more attention to! … If i was the girlfriend, no ,you’re dead right i wouldnt be happy. There’s something in me that wonders… do other people see this/do this stuff as normal… maybe that bit in me is called Denial:/
…
If you feel uncomfortable about the situation then don’t go. Make an excuse and offer to go out with him another time, maybe in a group of friends.
It sounds like you are worrying more about what he will think than you are of what you are comfortable with. You are more concerned with being polite than defending your boundaries. If he is a worthy friend, he won’t be put off by you not being able to come and entertain him after midnight, even if you did agree to it initially. If he gets huffy about it, it means he is a selfish user. You gave him a card after all, he knows you care already.
Having good self esteem means putting yourself first. You are unsure of this situation, so you should opt out. Whether he respects that or not is something you can’t control. He will show you by his actions who he is.
Also, as a side note – if you want to build a friendship with this man, why are you concerned with booty calls? If he is someone you are attracted to, you can’t really be friends. There will always be an undercurrent of emotion and that’s not healthy for a friendship.
mm yes i’ve often been too concerned for others feelings and thoughts over mine in the past, has probably got me into trouble.
hmm, i guess i’ve never been friends with a guy who hasnt wanted more from me in the end, apart from in the workplace & my girlfriend’s fellas i know. Although I think i now have a few male aquaintacnes that are platonic, which is good for me. But its always been the case that friendships with guys – at some point they will try it on somehow. So going on my expereince & what you’re saying; perhaps I should not be friends with men. :/
you raise some very good points to think on Minky, thank you:)
buddingE
It’s possible for men and women to be friends. But you do need to have quite solid boundaries in place; you have to be confident that you’re someone who can read the signs and knows when to back away. For instance, I was down the pub with some female friends. they have male friends. I was chatting with one of them and it was all fine, then it tipped into flirtation. It went on for a little while, I’m not a nun, but then we both moved our attention elsewhere. In our ten minute convo, he told me his 30th wedding anniversary is coming up and about his daughter – it’s something that comes up naturally in conversation. If they hide it, it’s not a good sign. By the way, I’m sure he found me attractive but I didn’t get the vibe that he had INTENTIONS. I meet my ex boss for a drink about twice a year, that’s a little trickier to manage and I’m wondering whether it’s wise to continue.
I hesitate to say “men and women can’t be friends” . It’s easy for ME to apply that rule to myself because I have two brothers. Would my life be diminished if I had no men in it? I think so. I love the straighforwardness of men, their strength, resilence, humour and protectiveness. And who would help me move the furniture?
If you are in a wobbly place emotionally, maybe go out more in mixed-sex GROUPS where it’s easy for you to shift focus and it’s not so intense one-to-one. and it can be a no-pressure way to meet someone, if that’s what you’re looking for. be wary of male friendships that are, in reality, just a hop, skip and a jump away from a romantic one. especially if he’s attached!
and friends don’t have sex; before you take it to that level, ask some questions. don’t assume that his intentions are your intentions.
BuddingE
Maybe ask yourself why you are tempted to develop a “friendship” with another girl’s boyfriend in the middle of the night? And ask yourself what kind of guy is it who has a girlfriend and yet thinks it’s okay to ask another girl to show him round the town – at midnight?! If you want to stay “friends” and so does he then invite him AND his girfriend to lunch – at lunch-time! That’s what friends do.
Gimme, gimme, gimme a man after midnight …
ABBA
and you know they’re not singing about “just friends”
or ask yourself if all your weighing, deliberating, analyzing, speculating, evaluating etc. feels right? If not, your question itself is wrong.
@Fearless,
Thank you, yes nicely put. I guess that is definitely the way forward. Whenever I ask after his girlfriend he brushes over the topic a bit, perhaps there are a few red flags looming here 🙁
It just seems like a sick trick that I meet a guy who I get on really well with , he compliments me, flirts, then i discover he’s attached. I guess ive been enjoying the attention from him a bit too much and need to step away from the light. i think having my self esteem kicked to the floor by my ex, it’s like a never ending circle of seeking validation and connection somewhere. Just turns out it’s in the wrong place, Again:/
Then I wonder what have I done to make him think it’s okay to ask me to do that. I’ve obviously been too friendly.
I thought I was doing so well, as men dont often speak to me and develop a friendship, i.e. have a decent lengthy conversation about similar interests etc. Guess i need to go to other activities etc to meet different people.
@color yes ur right. It does feel uncomfortable. And whilst it’s Highly embaressing exposing this topic on here, and I’d pretty much come to the conclusion you all hve myself… but there was still a small % risk that i may have slipped back into my old ‘live for the moment’ me, not a helpful path.
It’s really helpful to get everyone’s support, to help me make the more healthy choices for me.
*Fishy* pretty much coins it really. Why would I want to get caught up in fishy again, when I’ve been there before. I Need to remember there are plenty more fish that i can meet, that might allow for healthier friendships and relationships 🙂
budding,
I had one of those midnight things……it was after his girlfriend went to sleep!! If I were you, I’d tell the dude straight that it makes me feel uncomfortable doing that. If he tried coming back with some crap to talk me out if it, I’d keep restating that it made me uncomfortable because it’s late, it’s a bit of a drive and he has a girlfriend!! Smells fishy to me.
Hi BuddingE:
If he calls, all you have to say is “mmmm…I think I’ll pass. Nice talking to you! Was just on my way out!” That’s it. Be nice and sweet when you say it. Always be sweet, but don’t explain anything.
We don’t have to explain anything to men. If you get that sinking uh oh feeling in your belly, just say mmmm….would love to, but I can’t….mmmmm would love to, but I have plans…..
OR, if you find yourself tongue tied, just say “ohhh, can you hold on a sec?” then put the phone down go get a drink, take a deep breath and then get back on the phone with: “ohhh someone just rang my bell….gotta go! Have a good night!”
Be sweet. Be nice. But take no shit from men. Drive to his house at midnight? Really????? um. no. I think I’ll pass.
Jana,
It’s always helpful to get some practical examples of what someone else would do. Not having had family that have been able to provide this advice, sometimes the most basic of things can be very beneficial to learn or consider.
I have massive tenancy to feel like I have to justify and qualify and provide evidence for my choices, changing of decisions, [childhood issue of constanly being grilled and questioned, some would say interrogated] I am improving. But i think saying something (i.e. not that much) then leaving silence I have found a challenge and is a skill i’ve got better at but could still be deployed in situations with personal friendships (it’s easier at work).
Just a note – I was never planning to go to his house, just to go out clubbing, although thinking about it afterwards realised that as something else i might need to avoid about the whole scenario.
@grace
next time i get an offer anywhere remotely smelling of this one, I’m gonna remember this song in my head hopefully, thanks to you and that can be an easy warning system 🙂 Nice one
@cavewoman,
hmm – must listen to instincts and act on them quicker, rather than autmatically going into override on own feelings and cater to maintaining the status quo.
Hi BuddingE:
I’m glad my post helped you a little bit. Keeping it short and sweet with men is best.
Never complain, never explain. 🙂 Especially when dating!
Focus on yourself and what makes you happy don’t worry about what these boyz think. He’s just a boy!!!
Budding Energy, I felt I had to comment here:
Just like how Gremlins shouldn’t be fed after midnight, no self respecting woman should be going sight seeing at midnight with a guy that has a girlfriend or even taking calls from ‘friends’ (read: on the sniff) after 9/10pm. You *can* ‘develop’ a friendship during daylight or more sociable evening hours so it’s best to be 100% honest with yourself and admit that if you accepted this invitation and you’re discussing it here, there’s a distinct possibility that on some level you have more than a platonic interest. Put yourself in his girlfriends shoes – would you want a boyfriend creeping around after midnight with another woman?
I am really touched by & really appreciate everone’s responses. I love this site, so comforting to have at least one source of sensible talking and to check out my own boundary/electric fence ringing.
Breaking patterns of the past when I’ve just ‘lived for the moment’ helps to have a bit of back-up sometimes. 🙂
NML
Thanks for commenting. Yes I suppose I most embaressingly do have more than platonic interest. I had really been enjoying great conversations with him about stuff that interests us both and he seemed to really enjoy talking with me & it’s relaxed. Which was so refreshing for me as my ex didnt really & truly care about my interests or opinions and conversations with my ex were stilted.
I guess I’ve not had this experience often and probably got prematurely excited, then after a while he told me about the girlfriend -which was a shock at the time. So since then I’ve been caught between wanting to maintain the fact that i’d found someone i enjoyed chatting with etc but also needing to pull away coz he does send me mixed signals. Guess maybe I dont want to accept the fact that i’ve managed to attract another eu on my path.
Although I guess realistically maybe I have been EU myself getting over my ex and this has been a useful uplifter and distraction from the pain, dissapointment and miserableness of my ex.
No, I wouldn want my boyfriend (if I had one) creeping round with another woman. So I guess that makes him untrustworthy anyways. I seem to attract them or I am attracted to them like flies to a frickin turd. !! I need to grow up an move on and behave like a lady, not a teenage girl from now on.
It worries me that this would mean that I perhaps should lose respect a bit for this guy now, when we’ve been getting on so well, loads of laughs and interesting conversations … it’s a bit gutting -so it doesnt seem to make sense on one level. As it always seems that meeting someone like that doesnt happen very often. I mean I’ve only met my best friend (female)a couple of years ago, we get on really well, lots of similar interests, care about each other & am chuffed I have such a great friend. But that’s not a common thing for me, to meet friends I get on so well with. .. Maybe its just me.
It almost feels like casting what you think is a good egg into the bad egg bin.
Perhaps it was just coz I met him when I was pretty EU myself. Sometimes the more I learn the more I realise I need to remember & probably re-learn!! 🙂
You’ll be pleased to know he hasnt called me anyhow, just as well!
Buddingenergy, you can always say, “I know I agreed to visit, but in the light of day it doesn’t seem like a good idea anymore and I changed my mind.” You do not have to explain or justify yourself.
@sunshine
Yup you’re right. I am entitled to change my mind whenever i guess and especially as I’ve spent so long making bad decisions -listening to anything but my better judgement… buying myself a bit of time in these situations would be good too:)
@EllyB
So your instincts were spot on. Thanks for sharing your story. He does sound like quite a numpty… and perhaps the one i know is of a similar breed…? :/! doesnt know what he wants perhaps.
God, how many more of these people do we have to meet?…
Budding Energy…when I was a young teen I was asked to go out with a very popular young man…when it came time to leave I had a very strong gut feeling that I shouldn’t but I didn’t listen and ended up in a very bad situation…the reason I am telling you is to enforce the idea that yes, you can change your mind and should if you feel it regardless of what you agreed to before. As to running into the situations where the men let you know that they are unavailable for whatever reason, if they cross your boundaries, are at odds with your values, etc., then regardless of how you felt before you then have additional information to opt out. This, as Natalie says, is part of the discovery phase and why we are keeping our eyes and ears open and asking questions…sure we get attracted but we must be prepared at all times to hit the eject button. Short term pain for long term gain. If the goal is quality you are likely to go through a quantity before hitting a good select party whom you discover over time may actually be worth investing in…BUT keeping your eyes open and continuing your journey alone or with someone means supporting your needs and taking care of yourself so that you are loving yourself and capable of giving love as well. Take it slow. Enjoy the discovery process. Eject and opt out as necessary in ANY facet of life because, trust me, the love you are gaining for yourself and the tools you are developing cross all aspects of your life and it is incredible. Joy and peace to you.
buddingEnergy
i don’t think he’s interested in just being friends. does his girlfriend know about you.
Long ago, at university, there was this guy who pursued me. I didn’t find him very attractive, outright boring… and he was in a long-distance relationship, which I knew only from gossip, because he always “failed” to mention his girlfriend. Anyway, at some point, he convinced me to meet him for lunch at the university restaurant. Very “innocent”, but I felt somewhat uneasy about it. Therefore, I arranged it so that we ended up in a group of other pals of mine during that lunch.
Afterwards, I felt somewhat “ashamed” that I didn’t lunch with him alone, as he had wanted. Bad girl, I thought (!!!). That was then. Now I’m starting to understand that I and my feelings actually matter… and not only the wishes and desires of other people.
By the way, only a few months later, I got an email from him in which he proudly announced his wedding to the girlfriend whom he had never mentioned before. Since then, I’m periodically receiving unwanted “newsletters” from him about his happy family life. As if I cared.
What a *#$§&*…
He doth protesteth too much.
He is unhappy.
used
probably one of those people who’ll never be happy. too busy looking for alternatives to be grateful for what he has.
Exactly! Thank you for the response, above, btw.
I couldn’t ignore these girls before, when I was young, but I do now!
As to my sister, we always got along. And, yse, she doesn;t see herself as favored and/or she thinks that thereason why she has always had it better than me is b/c I was too meek to ask for anything, that she had more self-assuredness. I definitely wasn’t meek. I, the oldest, just didn’t know the “ropes” about how things work in the world.
Everyone SAYS that they want to be judged based on who they are as a person. If this were the case, then I’d have a million friends.
Truth of the matter is, people out there want to see PROOF of how great you are. They want to see that you get all the dates, all the friends, all the money, etc. (If they measure how likeanble you are based on a specifica factor, whatever it is, you have to have the PROOF of having it, and a lot of it!).
Sadly, they want to see (or at least believe!) (or feel justified in believing, even if their belief is based on a lie) actual proof or pseudo-proof that you are, in fact, great.
THese girls I grew up with, they weren’t of the same social status as me. But I was kept down, by them, and with my parents’ bad direction. Funny thing, when I complained about how abusive they were, my parents thought that I was jealous of them! Why? B/C whatever they did they did behind my parents’ back. To their faces, they were angels. So they were co-conspirators in the abuse. Only when they acted upon their jealousy of my sister did my parents (finally!!) end up believing me. They never pulled a stunt on my sister ever again, mind you. They were jealous and acted upon it at ONE event. They have always been nice to her, though.
Then they claim that they love me when they see no invitation to a kiddie b-day party!
But they always have had contempt for me. B/C I mirror how they grew up, and they HATE how they grew up, as they were never allowed a choice in anything.
Amen Natalie, AMEN!! so great to read such inspiring words, especially today when I last night told a guy i had been on three dates with that I was no longer going to see him as he could not answer what the status of the relationship was with his daughter’s mother when i asked. A year ago, before BR, this would have been a red flag – not to run away, but to charge towards (like a bull)! I am so happy that I have developed the clarity of mind and confidence in my right to have values and exercise boundaries where anything makes me uncomfortable. Its taken BR to make me realise that I have had, for most of my life, a terrible aversion to confrontation or uncomfortable situations, but instead of this protecting me, all it has done is expose me to self esteem destroying relationships. Its a good place to be now, and I am looking forward to getting stronger! (ps. what was his reaction when I told him his inability to give a straight answer such an important question was a deal breaker for me? total silence! all that did was make me more and more sure that I had made the right call). All the best to all of you!!
Yay sumumu. Inspiring story.
Thank you so much for your work, Natalie. Your site has been a life savior. I was on the verge of god damn suicide over the break-up with my ex EUM boyfriend, when I stumbled upon your wonderful work and find out what the hell was going on. I’m 19 years old, I’ve known him for 6 years, and being together/breaking up in a typical EUM fashion for 3 friggin’ years. He is a textbook case EUM. I’ve now been, i dunno, like 2 weeks NC (not really counting) and incredibly happy over my new found strength and happiness! I’m so looking forward to NOT hearing again from him. Of course, he wanted us to maintain contact. I have nightmares about breaking NC, and I am so happy when I wake up and realize I’m in control of my own life and actions and not talking to him anytime soon (more like NEVER EVER). Thank you once again, you are an absolutely wonderful, fantastic person, without your work I would have probably been agonizing over if I will ever be with him again or some shit, now I couldn’t care less what he thinks about me, if he misses me, if he has ever loved me, if he will be sorry for what he has done and so forth. He can think, want, feel whatever he wants, it’s none of my business anymore.
Glad i came back for a refresher. So true, and I believe that this applies to all relationships. About 3 months ago, a guy came on super strong, nothing was too much. He laid on the friendship really thick (calling all the time, dinner etc..), and then bam..it was like a light switched off. Of course I was super available whenever he wanted to do something. Kinda lost myself in the attention. My lesson is to take it slow….if the person comes on thicker than thick.. I need to pay attention because this is my red flag that an emotional unavailable may be lurking. Thanks Nat!!
Maybe some of us do have low self-esteem. There is great comfort, however, in being able to read and share, and know there are people out there who understand. Many thanks to NML for writing such insightful words. The thing I’ve noticed about AC’s is they sneak in, that is part of what makes them so hurtful. I nearly broke NC today, but reading the words posted reminded me why I’m NC to begin with. Thanks everyone!
Oh, I am SOOOO glad I found this blog. The above article basically describes me and my behavior when I was with my exEUM. I totally lost my sense of myself. It was HIS music he wants to listen to, it was HIS choice of time when we hang out … and I made it all too easy for him. Well, ladies I am moving on 🙂
Laine,
if you feel good about yourself blaming the victim, that’s up to you.
Most of the women here are here to get out of crappy situations and make sure they don’t fall victim again to someone that hoodwinked them. These women are not out chasing men that aren’t interested in them for no reason. These men seemed genuine at the start, charming, loveable, compatible. In a lot of cases, these men did a lot of groundwork to try to woo the women, for months, even a year. It is only when the women fell for them, or slept with them that the men started to get cold feet and rather than confront the women, they displayed behaviours to show that they are not as interested as before. The behaviours, sometimes start off as small little things, which in the scheme of things don’t seem that big, so the woman brushes it aside. But as time goes on, the behaviours might repeat or get bigger and that’s when it becomes hard because the woman is then forced to break up with the man she loved. The woman are here to get over those break ups, learn the signs to look out for and heal. Because some men don’t want to give it to you straight, they want to lead you on as long as possible.
Why are you here if your relationship is so perfect? I don’t have low self esteem, I have great parents, have had lots of great relationships, but it only takes one ex who was such a charmer, that he left me not knowing which way is up. I have found strength in the community of women here, who have been through similar situations. I find your comments to be condescending.
Omg! I’m NC and just got an ‘i miss you’ text from the ex and it made me laugh, instead of cry. Does that mean I’m healed?
Aura,
Let’s hope so 🙂
Aura
It’s a good sign. However, be on the alert for this: Yay, I’ve moved on. ..I understand myself so much more… I’m happier.. I don’t feel hurt anymore. Sun is shining. My hair looks good .. la la la. New shoes. Ooh look a text from X. Ha, he’s funny. I’m gonna text him back, what’s the big deal?
We can fall off the wagon not cos we feel desperate but because we feel better. We forget how bad they are. Keep holding your own. Fortress Aura.
grace
Yes I had been feeling all high and although I wouldnt entertain my ex (I dont think), it doesnt stop new EUs from popping up eh!
I think I can get quite despondant quite easily and think well they seem to be frickin everywhere, so surely this is just what most men are and I have to just get with the progam and accept that they want us to prove ourselves to them as a good woman who doesnt stand for crap, rather than fall for his shit. I’m finding it a bit depressing & tiring that we have to keep wading through thier s**t.
buddingEnergy – I felt the same way as you, despondent about the prevalance of EUMs and generally unbalanced people, for about a year post-AC, but I also always had this suspicion that the world was testing me to see if I had learned the lessons from the AC-experience. The lesson is: you really don’t have to wade through someone’s sh*t. Sure, no one’s perfect and we’ve all got quirks and less-than-healthy aspects of our relationship behaviour, but these things only need to be tolerated when the rest is good and healthy, that is, when the other person wants to make the effort, wants to communicate, wants to be there and, heaven forbid, have a good time with you. And then this acceptance isn’t about tolerance, it’s about compassion. But if the other stuff isn’t there, it’s not about compassion, it’s about short-changing yourself for some bull idea about having to be in a relationship.
Truly, I felt like I was a honey pot for the emotionally-stunted for about a year and I did start to have the same pessimism (which I then decided to change to something healthy: only someone worth settling for will do!). I have finally met someone awesome – right now when I also feel at my most healthy (not a coincidence). Keep practising saying no and enjoying being on your own, and you’ll meet someone great. Only last night was new man saying how much he loved how self-possessed and funny I am (I am far more light-hearted and chatty in real life! ; )). These were the precise qualities which frustrated and scared the AC.
Finally, in relation to the victim debate. I can see where Laine’s coming from, especially now that I am out of the AC-maelstrom, but I think it’s too simple a precept. There is way more that goes on here than women hanging out for and onto men who are less than worthy. There’s a range of things, from childhood stuff, to simply getting a brutal shock from, and needing help to process that, someone could lead you on and then discard you, and then these things overlap. Also, Natalie’s site is also very much about boundaries, self-esteem and moving on – which, to me, is a version of tough love, one delivered in a warm and practical package!
Putting your foot back on the peddle :
I had to post this I think it will resonate ! Quote from Steven Carter book ” the first thing to understand is that this man is a type. I call him Houdini after the snowman who couldn’t be tied or bound . A houdini is particularly destructive because he is almost always the one who insisted upon being tied up. Once you do what he asks he disappears . When he reappears he is totally different , or he has another woman, a stage assistant with him. A houdini escape is most common in short intense commitmentphobic relationships houdini got in over his head too soon , and he just had to get out.
Recognise the type and understand that he is the most destructive of committmentphobes . When he first disappears u must immediately realise all of the following : he is not dead , he is not lying in a gutter crying your name, he has not been kidnapped by a small unfriendly nation with no phones. He is gone because he wants to be gone and he is a creep.
Don’t wait for him to call you , don’t think he is having a nervous breakdown from which he will emerge his old loving self. Don’t do anything that has anything to do with him. Every second u waste thinking about him, talking about him, talking to him will only cause you more pain.
“He has not been kidnapped by a small unfriendly nation with no phones.” Haha – love it. 🙂
I have been out with many Houdinis. It’s great to be able to give them a name at last. I always now tell my friends to beware of men who move too fast. The ARE the ones who insist on being tied up at first – so true!
Cont..
Giving him up and the idea of him is harder than giving up cigarettes but it must be done. The sooner you do it the sooner you can get back to your life.
If this happens to you realise that it has happened to many many many other women. Don’t be embarrassed by it. Don’t keep telling yourself that he really loved you. Don’t romanticiz his problems and his conflict.don’t give yourself an important role in his life.
Resist the urge to dramatics your plight _ or his.
Resist wallowing in your pain it will just last longer.
Don’t keep thinking about all the things he said to you.
Don’t obsess about what u could have done,should have done, or might have done.
Don’t obsess about the ways he hurt you.
Stop thinking about what might have been.
Get some satisfaction that this will never happen to u again , ever,because now you know what to do.”
I think the ex-AC is stalking me, he drives by so often I’m afraid to go out. Plus texts, emails etc. Obviously I have to go out at certain times but I am keeping it to a minimum. I can’t believe how preyed-upon I am feeling. NC for six weeks. Anyone got any ideas for dealing with the inevitable encounter? I don’t want to be talked/argued into going back. Wonder if I’m being paranoid, but finding it stressful. 🙁
Alice
Try telling him that you’re no longer interested and please stop contacting you and driving by. Keep a record of all incidents, with dates and times, however minor. Don’t respond to any single thing he does. If he continues – get a male family member to give him a call (judge for yourself if that might make it worse). Then it’s the lawyers for a restraining order.
They will usually back down at some point in this process. When they realise the gig is up , they move on to somebody else to bully.
Don’t be nice and don’t ignore your instincts.
Did you tell him to leave you alone? Also, you need to block all e-mails and texts?
Get a retraining order if it keeps up.
I’m part of the problem. Today I was longing to bump into him. Talk about insanity. I wanted so badly to talk to him – and I had been doing pretty well at putting him out of my mind. Today was torture. I didn’t contact him though. Do others among you find youselves doubting your original decision?
Alice
If he’s a genuine AC, bordering on the dangerous, I suggest you google Dr Joe Carve’s article on Losers. It helps to explain how they work, and how they affect your thinking. Yes, it’s normal to doubt yourself, they are highly manipulative headfu***rs. I’ve seen an AC drive his own mother and brother round the bend.
Yes i absolutely doubted my decision at first! The first two weeks after dumping the ex EUM were spent strutting about with my head held high, practically whooping and cheering that i wouldn’t have to put up with his maddening behaviour anymore, or wait for his calls, or wait for him to decide to grace me with his presence, i wouldn’t have to wear heels anymore (he was over a foot taller than me), hurray! After that though i started to miss him. I wondered why he hadn’t tried to come crawling back and i wondered if i did the right thing.
I sucked it and saw – i got back with him briefly. It was NOT good. He was sore that i dumped him and, in a way, i felt i was being ‘punished’ for my actions. All the things NML said would happen, happened: i got less from him than i had before, it seemed like a watered down version of what we had previously, we both seemed to be walking on eggshells, what little trust and respect there had been were totally gone. He made a huge play for me to get back with him, but as NML said in another post, his feelings of being out of control of the situation was misinterpreted, by him, as desire for me. He didn’t really want me, he just wanted to ‘win’. In the end he dumped me by email, two weeks after begging me to get back with him. They don’t have it in them to be decent human beings. They don’t change.
I would advise not even bothering. All the reasons you went NC will still be there, plus a few others. You may miss him, but he will never be able to give you what you want. It is up to you to make the final decision, but i can tell you now it won’t be worth it. Best of luck.
Alice, We miss what we cared for but we don’t miss being miserable and for me the decision was correct as I had tried everything I could to alter a situation that wasn’t working for me. I loved him and I wished for a relationship with him with commitment and fidelity and friendship. I made a lot of mistakes at the beginning of our association and I had a lot of learning and growing to do. I didn’t want to give up on what I wanted but I had to see what I wanted wasn’t mutual and I had become confused because of so many words and actions and drama…it made me feel so crazy. I had read somewhere that you treat someone as you believe they could be and overall that is what I did in the belief that he could be that man in my vision. But, again, he had his own wants and needs and ultimately they did not jive with mine. I wish him well. I hope he has a great life. I hope that I do as well. NC is very extreme but very effective. I saw through no contact that he is who he chooses to be and that is okay. I am okay with it now because I am no longer involved with him nor wishing he was who I hoped he was; I accept his choices to live as he chooses and I accept myself and my wishes for happiness and will no longer make exceptions to my rules as I did in my association with him. NC allows for clarity and although it is very difficult it is empowering and it gives you yourself back. However, you must do the work not merely do the time. I had to have faith in the process…and it worked. So, yeah, doubts are normal. BTW I was NC for a bit over 3 months. I’m free now. I won’t say that I don’t wish things had happened differently, but I don’t have regrets.
Thanks for this thoughtful reply, Leisha. I hope I can get to this level of acceptance of myself and my ex and the reality of the dynamic between us as well. I would especially love to get to a place where I don’t want/need him, his actions, and things between us to be different than they are.
Right now though, I am just very sad, hurt, and angry. I am aware that I played a role too, and I’m glad that I ultimately opted out and acted with my dignity intact.
The past two weeks have seriously sucked though, I cry all the time and sometimes feel like giant loser for caring so much about losing someone who is so limited in his ability to care for me.
I have noticed that I really hadn’t started to process and (hopefully) heal from the breakup 2 mo. ago until I stopped all contact with him two weeks ago. Still, feeling so much sadness and loss makes me doubt my decision and have moments of wanting to text or call him. If I haven’t done so it’s just because every time I feel compelled to call him in the hopes of relieving the pain I read stuff on this site and remind myself that contact with him will just set me back, and then I’ll have to feel all this crap all over again and this time without my dignity. Not worth it, but not easy either.
Can you explain more about doing the work, and not just doing the time? And, do you have any contact now with your ex and if so what is that like?
Izzybell, Since you are in the beginning of NC what you are fighting is your addiction as well as grieving and both together are hellish but doable. NC truly is a time of self-discovery and I used it to process where I’ve been and that entailed facing all of the memories and feelings and this was essential. I journaled, I read a lot of books, I cried, I was frequently angry and I fully experienced the journey realising I had to end the dynamic that I had so willingly engaged in. It ultimately became about me…what I felt, how I contributed, what I wanted, what I want, what I will and will not put up with and why I allowed myself to go where I’ve been… this led me to understanding the full spectrum of boundaries I’d allowed to be busted in work and personal life. BTW I had been laid off and so that led to time to discover me…what I want, how to get there…I read Nat’s books, had her NC mailer in addition to her book, I looked into co-dependency, explored my past in the form of upbringing and what I’d learned from my environment. I stopped putting my emphasis on wanting him and instead putting it on finding peace with where I’ve been and how do I cope with unpleasantries…so as time went on and I realised that I had to live with myself and within myself and that my faith in the cosmos is alive and present that there were reasons for it all and that I simply needed to face certain issues that I didn’t like and so I did. This was freeing in itself. Trite though it sounds, the only control we have is over ourselves and our personal environment…we choose who we let stay and we choose how we interact…ultimately I found peace in letting go and letting god, light, whatever term you wish for the force of goodness to do what it does best…Reading and understanding all sorts of articles here on BR, finding I was at peace as time went on…realising all kinds of things…that is what NC gave me. Because I realise I am very fresh from the experience with all of this, I believe that seeking anything from the person that I was associated with would not be wise. I do wish him well but since I am aware of such differences between us, I do not seek interaction. I did speak with him as he had called and I decided to give him the gift of letting me know why he’d called. So, I returned that call, left him a voice message, then called and spoke with him and…
Izzybell…sorry, went over the word count…at any rate I decided to give him the opportunity to speak with me after he’d called a few times despite my request not to contact me for 6 months…well, I didn’t speak of much nor did he…certainly he didn’t address why he’d called, but I called him when he was driving and in the company of one of his children. I ended the conversation because it was an inappropriate time. It was after that that I realised I had ended NC as it was no longer needed. I was no longer addicted, I was simply returning a call after much thought and that I’d do with anyone I cared about if I felt I could handle whatever it was they had to say. That is the strength that I gained, the knowledge that I was okay regardless of the outcome. NC is awesome. It IS all about us not about “them”…so, I let him go when I decided to go NC…that didn’t change. I just came to peace with it all. Trust the process…I want to add that I had always intended to be civil and respecting and I had screwed up royally many times in our association. I forgave me and that was paramount in the work (because it is work). The reason I stated that time alone isn’t the answer is because without the processing we don’t learn and as a result we don’t resolve OUR issues. Time alone isn’t the healer, I learned that when I’d entered this last association after 2 years of time alone…so do the work and your past won’t return to bite you as it did me. NC works if you work it. Boundaries, values, self-knowledge, eyes and ears open…dealing with how it IS not how you wish it was is KEY.
Not a laughing matter, I know, but Allison’s typo had me picturing AliceB’s ex A/C being served with an order from the courts to complete a 2 year intensive course at the National Retraining Centre for Assclowns.
🙂
Just realised it is 4th July already. Happy Independence Day to you on the other side of the big pond! And 4th July is also my Mr ex EUM’s birthday. I do feel a bit sad since if I was having a normal life…well, then things would be normal!
Have I sent a card? Will I be sending him a happy birthday text? Will I be thinking of him all day wondering and wishing? Nope. Nope. Nope. He’ll get as much attention from me on this birthday as I got from him on my last one in January and on many others in the past – None.
In my case holding my own with this guy now means No Contact. (Better late than never!)
Good for you, Fearless, it is a day for you to celebrate your independence from him 😀
Yes, Tulipa! I never thought of that – fromm now on I will remember the ex EUM’S birthday day, 4th July, as my Independence Day! Yeee-ha!
Believe it or not last year at this time I was so busy booking a holiday abroad with my sister that I completely forgot his birthday (and we were on an “on” period at that time)… I only remembered about a week later – bought him a (rubbish) pressie and apologised for forgetting his birthday… just goes to show tho’ that I’ve been mentally ‘moving on – or moving away’ from him for quite some time. Holding my own means not EVER accepting less than I KNOW I am worth!
fearless, allison
RETRAINING order.
That’s brilliant!
Fearless, I’m a January girl myself…could be you are a water bearer but I think you are the sea-goat…we go through a lot but we keep on learning from the adventures…well your guy made a lot of smoke and noise in your life but his staying power in the form of what you deserve is equivilent to the fireworks shot in the dark…lots of noise and some beauty…but ultimately fleeting and ephemeral…not what you had in mind. Happy Independence Day; may you find the love and companionship that is worthy of you.
Leisha,
Thank you so much – what a lovely wish for me! I hope same for you too and for all the ladies here. We all deserve so much better and we must never forget that ever again.
And yes, they are all noise and a lot of smoke; reminds me of the Shakespeare quotation: “All sound and fury signifying nothing”.
That about sums them up! And maybe sums us up as well if we are the woman who thinks too much and talks too much but does nothing! From now on I am the woman of no sound, no fury – I vote with my feet!
Thank you for the response, Leisha– very helpful!
I loved, loved the last paragraph…put your foot to the gas….
Colororange, I am with you on the anger part! I’m taking a break from dating right now, but I’ve been having more contact with my parents lately. It pissed me off to realize that they are still in the habit of taking a mile when I give an inch of good will. Their lives are definitely lacking, and they are constantly pushing my boundaries to be there end-all, be-all, a pattern I’ve noticed in a lot of my relationships, romantic and friend-wise. But I’m the one responsible for bending over backwards with a smile on my face in the past, and I’m the one responsible for putting my foot down now. It feels good to say that, but I felt like I’ve been in a grieving process for myself when I realized I will never be the person everyone seems to want me to be for them. My last relationship went downhill quickly for way too long when I became lazy in maintaining my own values and boundaries that I had originally walked in with and became focused on how to keep HIM happy (as Natalie gives example of above)-when people say relationships take work, I think that is the kind of work people should focus on. Holding your own is definitely difficult if you’ve been instilled with the dysfunctional values of don’t make too much fuss/don’t ask for too much/always act happy/keep everyone else happy, but I feel confident that I’ve finally deconstructed them. This blog has helped me do that as well as think about what I really want and what will make ME happy. I only see it getting easier.
Thank you Nat!
You have helped me reprogram my brain with Nat-phrases.
In the past I’d get ‘i miss you’ texts and get all emotional.
When I got mine last night, all I could think was, it’s a generic text.
– it’s lazy ass communication,
– was thinking what does he miss, the validation, the ego boost?
– he’s trying to hit the reset button, and I starting laughing. I was thinking if that’s the best you can come up with, you’ve got to be joking!
Thank you Fortress Grace! Your voice of reason and strength has been one of the ones I’ve looked out for on this site. I know what you mean about letting them in when you think they’re harmless. I didn’t speak to my ex for years, thought he couldn’t hurt me, because I was on to him. But then he’d up the ante, seemed even nicer and more adorable…and thought he’d changed for the better. Well you can guess the rest. But that was before BR.
Thanks colourorange, I hope so too.
Looking back at my previous relationship, which ended 5 months ago (I ended up walking away when I found out that, after 14 months of dating, the ex wasn’t sure if I was the one. It turns out he was still in love with his toxic ex and was stringing me along), I am proud of the fact that I set boundaries throughout the relationship. I made it clear that I was not going to tolerate disrespect or dysfunction. Examples: (1) the first time I met his best friend and we all went out for drinks, he proceeded to talk to her ( she’s gay, so there wasn’t anything romantic between them) as though it was just the two of them and I wasn’t there. When we were alone, I told him that I did not appreciate his behavior, found it disrespectful, and did not want it to happen again. It didn’t. (2) We went on a cruise and took his 16 year-old daughter and her friend. He started planning a shore excursion with the girls and did not include me in the discussion. It was as though I wasn’t there! When we were alone, I told him that I did not appreciate the fact that he did not include me when planning excursions as I was a part of the group too. Doing so, sent a message to the daughter (who did not like the fact that her dad had a girlfriend anyway) that I wasn’t important to him and that my opinions didn’t matter. He said that I was being too sensitive, and I shot back, “You’re not being sensitive enough.” During the rest of the cruise, he made sure to include me in future discussions. My late mother use to say that people can only treat you in the manner in which you allow them to.
Gina
Your posts highlights well things that are negotiable and things that are not. Hoiday planning is negotiable (though not in my relationship with the abusive AC). Not being over the ex is … non-negotiable. He can’t change his feelings.
The fact that he ignored you in social situations is because he didn’t see the two of you as a unit. It’s terrific that you were able to get him to treat you better but, as you found out, you couldn’t make him love you and you had to walk away- good for you. As Nat says, hit the pedal and drive off.
The red flag here isn’t his social ineptitude – he wasn’t over the ex and was not committed to you. All the boundary setting in the world can’t overcome that and, frankly, would we want it to? Do we really want to teach someone to love us?
By the way, if you do hear on the grapevine that he’s settled down in The Best Marriage in the World, don’t beat yourself up about it. It will be because he DID finally get over the ex and did some hard thinking about what he wants. Not because you could have done anything differently.
Grace your words hit the proverbial nail on the head. I am angry at him for giving me mixed signals that led me to believe that he wanted to be in a healthy relationship and that we had a future together and for not being totally honest and letting me know that he was comparing how he felt towards his ex (intensity level: 10 when then things were good and 1 when things were bad) with how he felt towards me (intensity level: 6-7). Even though he said that I was the best girlfriend that he’d ever had (he rated our overall relationship an 8 – 8.5), since he did not feel that high degree of intensity, he wasn’t sure if he wanted to marry me. I am angry at myself for entering the relationship and not truly understanding/accepting/acknowledging the fact that he wasn’t 100% over the ex. He never blew hot or cold, but like you said, his behavior showed that he did not see us as a unit. He has a pattern of chasing after women who don’t really love him as much as he loves them. He said that he was married for 20 years and spent those years with a woman who criticized him and tried to change him. He said that he stayed because he felt that it was his job to “fix” the relationship. He’s now doing the same thing with his ex girlfriend who dumped him three years ago. This has definitely been a learning experience for me. I am now working on getting to the point where I feel indifferent towards him. Truth-be-told, I am more concerned with whether or not I will eventually settle down in the best marriage in the world rather than whether he does or not (not that he doesn’t deserve one as well).
This is a really interesting point: it is good to learn from past mistakes and it is natural to compare one relationship to another, to grow and to develop as a person. I know i comapre my EU relationship, which was utterly useless, to what i have now, which is great. It’s kind of a benckmark. Like knowing what to look out for and what i don’t want. It helps me to ‘hold my own’ and to have boundaries.
Nat – I am wondering how healthy this is and when it becomes obsessing or not being over your ex, versus learning from the past and avoiding red flags. The current boyfriend does talk about his ex sometimes and i talk about mine sometimes too, but just in an offhand way and always complimentary to the other person. I feel nothing for my ex and he says he feels nothing for his, but they do creep up in conversation from time to time. I am confused now! :/
you should be proud, Gina! It’s not easy to watch, listen and respond to things that make you feel disrespected in the moment and it definitely isn’t easy to walk away!
l was reading one of the older post about how we have to be authentic about ourselves and know who we are, and l was thinking this: if we are strong in ourselves, no AC or EUM would not have change with us in a first place, but since they have had changes to enter in our lives, then why not taking this experience as a good lesson and think this: it is a good sign for us to “wake up about ourselves” – the pleasure of knowing how powerful *we* actually can be, if we work with ourselves, and the joy of enjoying what life can bring us, when we are in much much better place…if there was no EUM, we might still be miserable (detect a bit humour here)
This was an interesting topic. It just that it assumes that there are no women players. There are women out there who are not looking for committment, have no boundaries, and need no compassion. They are not hurt by one-sided relationships because that is exactly what they want. I don”t know why there is the assumption that a women always wants more than sex. Sometimes thats all she wants. This article is wonderful that women who wants the white gown–but that is simply not every woman.
I’m don’t think the article assumes that all women want relationships.
Regardless, the women who seem to connect to this blog obviously are not satisfied with casual relationships.
Jupiter
Jupiter
In my (long) experience, people who are “casual” about sex are often also casual about the consequences of sex – i.e. their children, their partners’ STDs, the effects of abortion to name but a few.
I agree not all women are chasing the ‘white gown’ (but I don’t see a problem with it if they are! So what? That might be the sensible approach and at some point you too may want the white gown). Many of us are hooking into Nat’s site cos we are sick of being taken for a mug! It’s quite simple. We are sick of these one-sided relationships that you seem to think are so harmless ans o much fun – sick of being on the wrong side of youe ‘one-sided’. And what’s wrong with that?
That aside, I find it very hard to believe that there are women out there who know themselves well and who also genuinely seek and wallow in the status of ‘booty call’, ‘friend with benefits’, ‘f**k buddy’ or ‘fall back girl’. And if they imagine they are happy with a man applying that status to them and using their ‘happy to oblige’ attitude to it, odds on it’s because they haven’t figured out yet that a booty-call is exactly what they are.
If it is the woman who is using the guy as a booty-call then that’s not good news either; your term ‘one-sided’ relationships says it all; ‘one-sided’ just means that one party is using the other for what they can get out of it (sex or whatever) while the other person is left feeling hurt and used. And you think this is a good thing? You suggest that those of us who want to avoid these situations – or this lifestyle – are merely chasing a wedding ring and a shopping bag? No, we are avoiding the inevitable problems that come with “one-sided” relationship. We are not necessarily chasing the white gown but *are* chasing the road to self-respect and respect of others in our lives – mutual respect and consideration. Women who think they want to be dial.a.lay.com or to be able to use men for same purpose have either no respect for themselves or no respect for others Either way, one or t’other or both is at some point going to get very hurt… so good luck with that.
sorry Jupiter – oops – my comment was actually in relation to Elana at Sisterly Advice Blog’s comment, not yours.
Elana I think that you completely misread the article. I fail to see where driving one’s own life equates with this article being for women who “want to wear the white gown”; which I’m certain you are implying marriage…Natlalie’s blogs are about self empowerment, self-knowledge, skills in building a worthwhile relationship with yourself as well as with others in ALL arenas in life. All people deserve compassion. Most people want love. However, how they seek to obtain what they want differs quite frequently and there are phases and stages in life. What is frequently emphasised here is honesty with oneself and with others. Natalie frequently states that dishonesty comes in many forms and in both sexes. We all know that there are playa’s and we all know that people can indulge in sex for sex’s sake. If both parties are clear on that then that is their decision. Since it takes two to engage quite frequently relations become unbalanced and learning to spot that as well as learning to recognise when to opt out by knowing what is right for you are things that are not necessarily taught to us. Most of the readers here are interested in learning better ways of relating. We are all adults here.This is a learning and very sharing and supporting environment that many of us have learned from, continue to learn from, and return for the solace and real relatedness to life that it provides. It’s a no BS zone. We are all at different places in many ways but overall we seem to be a great community. We are choosing to learn good driving skills for our lifetime commute and for me that is priceless and not to be denigrated or suppressed.
Elana
I don’t agree with “playing” whether you’re a man or a woman. To me, sex is serious. The not-so-positive side of casual sex is unwanted pregnancy, STDs, cervical cancer, multiple children with various partners, not to mention the broken hearts of the men and women who have been played. If that’s what you want, though, then by all means you are free to pursue that. I hope it’s still fun when you’re sixty.
Players don’t understand or would rather ignore the deep emotional need that most human beings have to love and be loved. It goes way beyond wanting to prance about in a wedding dress. (Though Kate Moss’s was freakin fabulous!).
And what’s a one-sided relationship where no-one gets hurt? Sounds deeply shallow to me (ha ha that’s an oxymoron!).
I’m slightly bemused by why so many players come on here and criticise Nat’s blog for not being about “How to be a Player”. It’s not what she’s about. There’s a gazillion other blogs out there for you. Still, it’s always interesting to hear opposing viewpoints.
As for boundaries, surely players have THE MOST intact KEEP OUT boundaries of all. That’s something we might want to learn from them (in a somewhat modified form).
A woman who wants a respectful committed partner doesn’t always want to find a husband. This site also helps us learn how to navigate all of our relationships, with family, friends and coworkers. Learning how to have self respect and care don’t always mean we are looking to wear the white gown. Sure some women are players. Some women just want sex. Power to them. This site teaches how to be who you are without crapping on other people or being crapped on. If anyone wants to live like a player, be real and don’t lie and hurt people just to get your way. Be real. Find people who want just sex too.
So I post on this blog every now and again. I have a similar story to most, a five year on again off again EUM relationship. Every cliche thing about these relationships–it probably happened to me.
Anyway, it’s hard to detail the happenings with the EUM, because it’s long story and a part of me just doesn’t care anymore. We went long periods without talking, the longest was about a year and a half. So even though I’ve remained no contact for awhile, a part of me knows that I can fall off the wagon again. But I also know that as time goes on through the ups and downs I care less and less about what this person does. I don’t care if he’s sleeping with someone else because I don’t have to know about it. I don’t have to feel used. I want to be happy, not force someone to love me.
Anyway, I went on a date yesterday. If I like the person, I usually don’t think about my EUM. But if I know things aren’t going to work out (even if they are great/nice), then I would usually go home depressed and think about my EUM. But I went on a date, knew things weren’t going to work out. I did think about the exEUM but not with any sense of loss or urge to contact him. The date was fun.
Definitely don’t date before you are ready because somehow it makes our EUMs seem better than they are. And something us girls with EUMs past should remember–dates/dating should be fun.
Jupiter,
Have you sought some sort of counseling? You sound like you have given up and are worn down.
Hi Allison,
At the moment when I wrote this, I was feeling pretty good.
I have done counselling before. I have not given up. But I am worn down sometimes. Most of it right now has to do with my job hunt and the uncertainty of my future–which I do somehow intermingle meaning with the EUM.
I do get lonely, which is my biggest problem.
Jupiter
Nothing else really needs to be said. Well stated/written.
cavewoman, colororange,
Thank you for your encouraging words. He knew that I wouldn’t be able to turn down a request for help. He knows I am a sucker when it comes to helping others, even at my expense. And to for the man I love too, absolutely. I think he was genuinely surprised I ignored his texts. He ended my NC by having a need I couldn’t resist.
Maybe EUMs have an intuitive feeling when you are finally done with them? I don’t know. But he seemed to be more loving for that week. Now, he’s pulling away again since he has his car back. I am going to start NC again, but this time I am doing something different. I have two phones (one for work and personal). I told my friends to call me on the work phone and I am putting my personal away for now. I turned off my answering machine at home and will ignore his call (caller ID) if he calls. I have to do this for me because his disappearing act is like a knife in my stomach. I can’t do this anymore. I was in so much pain during my first NC, but it did get better as time went. Now I am starting over again and like a diet, I am so hungry for him, but in time I hope to like the salad and fruit diet until I can find non-fattening foods that taste good too. In other words, doing things for me and finding the right man. Wish me luck!
RETRAINING order !!!! Bloody brilliant fearless ..you are funny. That gave me a chuckle all day 🙂 …I wonder how many takers for Nats new workshop ” retraining for assclown man boys …get a frickin life ”
Honestly this site keeps me sane…and believe me..only a few short months ago pre BR due to assclown antics…I literally thought I was losing my mind ( and my health…was on beta blockers anti anxiety pills , anti depressents , ) and all it turns out I needed was an anti assclown pill !! Thanks BR and you girls ..you have helped heal me . Yey 🙂
Minky my fave was ” he’s gone because he wants to be gone and he is a CREEP ”
Well said that man !! …” he is a creep ”
And who the heck would hanker after a creep ??!!!
Err not me ….
Wow!!! This article is awesome. The entire website has been a Godsend!!!! After 3 weeks, not hearing from my AC/EUM, he starts contacting me like there is no tomorrow. I wait about 24 hrs before responding to him and them let him have or so I thought. It was week on yesterday and he already pulled the same stunt that let to 3 weeks of NC. I know that if I don’t cut off my AC/EUM that this will be rotating door for him. He has admitted to me that he knows I want more but he is not prepared to give me more and will continue to contact me off and on. I am not sure how much more I need to be able to walk away and never look back. This site has been so helpful, yet I have I have had an abundance of “OUCH” moments but I can truly appreciate at this time. In fact, I know it was because of this site that I was able to better handle him eventhough, I made the decision to call him back. So I know, I am not where I would I like to be but I am not where I use to be. It can very difficult to want to learn to love you and value you but not have any clue where to start…This part was really an OUCH, I took a date with AC/EUM this week that wasn’t planned and very inconvenient to me and my kids just for the sake of just wanting to see him..it wasn’t worth my time or enery..it took way more from than it even gave…Thank God, there was no sex !!!!
You’re communicating that you don’t love yourself enough – If you did, there’s no way in hell you’d be so quick to abandon yourself or put up with rinky dink behaviour. You’re actually saying “I love you or the idea of what you could be more than I love myself.” and “I’d sell me who I’ve known since the day I was born for someone I’ve known for a wet week/month/year.
Quite Lady,
you learn to love yourself by going total NC with this using, abusing arrogant clown and forcing yourself to maintain NC – even if you fall; get right back on. First thing is to get your power back: NC is for that. You are not imprisoned by this guy though you may feel like that, but the prison door is actually wide open – you can walk through it anytime you want. So long as you sit there, you’ll never get out. So go! Go on, go. Ditch him. You can do it!
I realise this is the biggest mistake I made in my last relationship. I got carried away a bit. When you’re in the honeymoon phase and “in love” everything seems great. You just want to be with them all the time etc. The problem is its harder to see this when its happening. Its only later I realised what a mistake I made. How do you try and keep your own thing going when you’re still in the early stages, without going overboard?
Part of me always knew my recent ex was an assclown, but I kept pushing it to one side, thinking if I just tried harder, was a bit more perfect then somehow it would all magically be ok. I let him bust my boundries all over the place, ringing me at 2am to talk, even after I asked him not to, as that was the only time he felt like talking. Allowing him to constantly badger me after HE dumped me, to talk about his problems, commiserate, give him an ego stroke and eagerly take him back with open arms when he declared he would ‘change’ (after taking me back and dumping me three times in as many months). I knew that if I stood up for myself, laid down some boundaries, then I wouldn’t see him for dust and I was right. Recently, I stood up, said his behaviour was unacceptable and I was leaving. I haven’t heard a word since.
I am so proud of myself for walking away, for having enough self respect to tell him no more and am proudly NC for two and a half weeks. At first I was desperate to hear from him, to validate me as you put it, but this site has helped me so much. He is completely emotionally unavailable, separated but not divorced, still goes on about his ex, who he calls ‘stupid’, blew hot and cold, constantly set the reset button, the works. So why would I care what someone who has no idea who he is thinks about me? I don’t. And I am so much happier without his crap in my life. And I will never let someone cross my boundaries again, he destroyed my self esteem and I am finally getting it back. I deserve so much more than a manipulative assclown.
I personally found this post quite insightful, but I don’t know if over lookers would feel the same. I say that because we are all led to believe in the dating world that you should understand how people operate thus, helping you to always be in control. Now, I don’t know whether to believe this, but, in my opinion, there are things you can do to have control in the dating world.
There was something I was reading a while back that so happens fits in with this post and I want to share it with you all… it is said to believe there are four types of people in the world who we all need to understand to make a relationship successful. Everyone can be put into a category – “control country”, ‘perfect country’, ‘peace country’ and “fun country”.
Now, the fun country is a person needs to be socialising with other people, whether it’s on the phone or in person, they need to have that connection and a reason to live. The reason their country is called fun is that they see laughs through fun, entertainment and enjoyment. If you are a jealous person, this one wouldn’t be worth dating.
We also have perfect country, they are the most sensitive people in the world and have long memories of people who have hurt them, so you have to be careful in what you say to them because tone means everything. Furthermore, they are very intelligent and creative people and perfectionists. They want everything to be right.
Those in the“peace country” hate all conflict, including debates. They are the type of people to sulk and not talk to you after a debate. I personally love debates so this one wouldn’t be for me (if I was available.)
People in the ‘control country’ are driven, accomplished, and always needing to get things done as they are not patient people. They have high expectations of themselves and the person they are with.
I found this quite interesting. After read this post, I had to take a step back and think what a society we live in.
Everything you have said in this post is true. Too often you end up losing yourself and other relationships of value for someone you didn’t even know existed a few months before. I keep saying that all the time. It is madness.
You lose all sense of direction and act like they are the be all and end all and you are there to pick up their crumbs when they fall off the table. BS! Learn some self respect.
What I have realised is that the person who cares less in the relationship is the one holding all the cards. You always want to be the one holding the cards or the steering wheel as you said in this post. You cannot get so caught in the dating/relationship phase that you steer yourself into a tree or crash and burn! Be smart about it.
Good post.
So ladies and Nat, I’m seeking some advice. I have been complete NC from my ex for 8 months. I went on a second date last night with a nice guy. He is ten years younger than me (he: 37, me: 47) part of me knows we are not suited…he spoke about wanting children, I’m not interested in that at my age…But we had a nice spirited rapport and I was feeling attracted to him. After 8months of NC I am now starting to feel that I would like to date a little and I have been feeling a bit lonely for companionship and some human touch.
Last night was one of those lovely summer nights in New York and we were sitting in the park chatting and we hugged a bit and then kissed a bit. I could feel he wanted to kiss a bit more passionately, but I headed it off. Of course my libido was ramping up, but I know in my gut that I don’t want to start off with the physical. If and when I get into a relationship again I want it to start from place of taking time to really get to know the person. I cooled things off, but man was I tempted to get more into it…
You know..beautiful summer breezes, almost full moon…Washington Square Park… not having the touch of a man for 8 months and missing the ex…all a recipe for swiftly moving to the physical…but I have really taken in the wisdom of BR and can see all the red flags…I don’t want to be eclipsed by the fact that I feel a bit lonely. I feel like a kind of slipped last night, but am proud that I cooled things off and ended the night before it went too far…I am sensing a bit of a player in him and honestly it feels like we are at different stages of life ….I am feeling a bit guilty though….like I let myself down and slipped a bit with my standards….
Your thoughts would be appreciated….I’m putting my toe back in the dating pool and it’s scary..
Thank you so much. As a 40 plus woman who had just dipped her toes into the water after 10 years being single with an Eum who was also ex from 20 years ago this was such a wake up call. Was getting all signals and gut reactions but did not understand where or what was going on. Talk about take me back to how I was emotionally all those years ago and how I played the same part all over again. No more. Finally I am ready to grow up and take control of my life and hopefully teach myself and my 3 teenage children how to have boundaries and self respect, how to treat people and how to expect to be treated. To really look and listen to what other people do and say and most importantly what we do and say ourselves. Thank you again so much.