Sometimes we find ourselves experiencing a sense of invisibility and it can be all too easy to put it down to us being too sensitive/needy/dramatic/not confident enough and blah blah blah. Granted, we all have our moments of insecurity and yes, sometimes we project that on to others because of our self-critical relationship and low self-worth, but when we are being marginalised, forgotten or embarrassed by others, even if it’s unintentional, it’s not an us-problem. The crap we’re experiencing is real.
Yesterday, at an event for women as part of International Women’s Day where the talking points were getting the many qualified women who struggle to return to work after a career break back into the workforce, discrimination, diversity, and the importance of the visibility of women in STEM (science, engineering, technology and maths), I was treated as if I were invisible thanks to what had seemed like an organisational error. The catalogue of events was unfortunate and embarrassing. As I sat there, my inner voice said, “I’m worth more than this.” I spoke up for myself at the event, and you can check out the full story in the above video.
Even when we do have a voice and dare to speak up, we are criticised, blamed, and shamed. I talk about this in the video and extensively in this podcast episode, ‘From Silent To Speaking Up & Speaking Out where I share my experiences of abuse and speaking up.
We’re told about how their behaviour isn’t the problem. It’s that we should have “spoken up sooner”, been “more assertive”, worn something different, been less sexy, more this, less that. It’s all bullshit. In my case, I was told, “If we are to work together again, however, what I would ask from you, in return, is to step up to future opportunities with certitude, clarity and confidence and be responsible for any unconscious bias that informs your assessment about the success of the event.”
Sometimes, as I experienced, the criticism, blame and shame we encounter for the actions (and inaction) of others is at the hands of women. And I won’t stand for it. Not from men or women.
Too many women have been mistreated.
I posted about my experience yesterday on Instagram and have been overwhelmed by the response. The original videos I recorded disappear after 24 hours and I felt that it was important to share my story.
Thank you. And please: if you feel in any way touched by what I have shared, do share the video or this post.
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Thank you for speaking up and also for holding your own. I am sorry that you experienced what you did but it goes to show how much more work lies ahead. You are amazing and thank you.
Thank you so much, Vibhuti. It’s very true what you said about the work.
Hi. I am so glad you shared this. This is the most sane and brave and needed thing I saw during the entire week. Thank you for being real and true to yourself in this crazy making world.
Gosh, thank you Ivana. I’m touched.
You are welcome. Thank you for being as you are. Authenticity is the best policy indeed. And people know how to recognize and acknowledge each other like that.
What a sad story. If i were you i would stop taking invitations from these people/organizations/groups in the future.
Aaaaaaaamen. Thank you Leslie.
Hi Natalie,
I am so glad you spoke up. This person who basically pushed you aside and blamed you should be fired. Don’t the people that run these panels know that each person should be given equal time and respect.
Thank you Kelly. It’s certainly been a learning moment and I know for sure that I won’t be in a situation like that ever again.
You are so right! Thank you, Natalie. When you spoke up for you, you spoke up for all of us!
Aw, thank you Paula. That means a lot to me. Good to hear from you!
Natalie –
As a professional who has organized and spoke on many panels, I’m appalled at what you had to go through. If I had been the moderator, and made that type of mistake (being human, i’ve definitely made some equally big mistakes), I not only would have hit the pause button on the panel, recognized you and apologized publicly for the oversight, I would have also asked the audience if we could extend the panel by another 5 to 10 minutes to accommodate the oversight.
Anything less than that is unprofessional, unkind, and devaluing – not only of you and your time and expertise, but of everyone who witnessed how you were treated.
Like you, although I am capable of confidently standing up for myself, it takes a significant amount of energy to overcome each “devaluation event.” I am sorry this happened to you. I hope your continued testimony helps raise awareness so that it happens less in our lives.
Thank you for being who you are, and how you are, and for helping all of us to grow, individually and collectively.
Warmly,
A California Fan
Thank you Jeanine. You are so right about mistakes happening and just doing your best to make amends. That just didn’t happen, not on the day or in the aftermath and I would never treat someone like that.
Preach. It took me a few days to feel more myself. It physically, emotionally and mentally impacted me. I felt shaky on and off for 4-5 days and gradually as I refocused myself and really dug into self-care, I felt more centered and grounded. But it is draining. The big spark in all of it those is that in being honest about what happened, it connected with so many others who had also been in my shoes but often doubted themselves and their experience. Thank you for your support.
The issues women face is a societal one and society is made up of men AND women.
I feel for this woman as her instant reaction to criticism is fear. To blame and shame. Her reaction to Nat speaking up says so much about the issues we face. She is in fact the one who lacks the confidence to address the issues and the possibility that she effed up. I do wonder if she would have sent the same thing to a man.
Thanks for having your own back and women’s back. So impressive that you had the CONFIDENCE to speak out! I would have awkwardly scurried out!!
Keep fighting the good fight! Xx
Very true Fi. To go straight on the attack says a lot and compassion reminds me that even though it wasn’t the decent way to treat another human being, there’s clearly something not right there. I felt totally projected onto and I refused to hump that baggage. Thank you for your support. xx
I sincerely hope they paid for ALL your expenses for the trouble you went to be there to support that event. If they did, F*** em. They weren’t walking the talk. Their bad. Not yours. Kudos to you for calling them out and voicing your experience. If you had to pay for anything to get yourself there- biggest stink ever is much deserved. “Let me get this straight I had to PAY some of the expenses to get treated invisible AND have to listen to your BS about how you are championing women when that was NOT carried through in the experience as a panelist of your event?”
That apology was so not an apology. It was insincere. When one makes an apologies one says” Im sorry I did whatever.” Stop there. End of story. Personally Im so tired of hearing apologies when people then follow up with “but, here’s what I was experiencing because of you to cause my error…”
So sorry to hear you went through that nonsense and thank you SO much for having the courage saying what you did and standing up to those that are pandering to what sounds good but don’t live up to what they say. It’s even harder when that treatment comes from those in “our tribe”. When we are supposed to be supporting each other instead of tearing each other down. You are so worth more. We all are. And thank you for continuing to build us up. Whether we are men or women. I think you actually do the same for both in many respects. Rock on Natalie!!
PS Ive met you personally and you are one of the MOST kindest, unassuming, so-not- race-related-chip-on-shoulder person I have ever met. Hearing that someone jumped to those conclusions isn’t just maddening to me given the context, it highly alarming as I find it points to a bigger trait I increasing encounter in those that want to be seen as a “mover and shaker” in society – which is a lack of substance. Thank you also for the way you make an unceasing effort to do the excruciating hard work of self examination it takes to make sure YOU are walking your talk . I watch you do it and it makes me want to try harder too.
Aw, thank you Valerie and so lovely to hear from you. I paid to get myself there. I had been happy to lend my time and voice to the event. While I will do that on occasion in future, I will certainly think twice.
It was so far from being an apology; it was a Trump-style apology. There was no way I was taking that from her and so after pointing out her alarming lack of empathy and penchant for projection, I received no apology.
My message was loud and clear: not everyone is in the sisterhood. Sometimes the wolf is the woman who’s telling you that she’s championing you while cutting you up. It’s not enough to talk the talk and it’s OK for us to call it when we see it because when more and more women hear voices saying no and speaking the truth, more will add their voice to the mix.
A very astute observation. Amen!
I discovered your website last year after a break-up, so a thank you is in order for helping me through that. You are warm and wise, and your words meant so much to me when I was at a very low point in my life.
I work in tech, surrounded by men, and often feel invisible. I am small, young, a minority, and in a position of relative power, and only this week had a man tell me I had no right to give him direction because “I have children older than you.”
I do not know you, but perhaps because you helped me through such a rough time, it really upsets me to hear that someone treated you this way and then had the nerve to shift the blame back on to you. I’m not sure I would have had the courage to speak up about this mistreatment in the moment and likely would have walked away feeling bad about myself. You are an inspiration to me to not immediately search myself for faults when things like this occur–was I not kind or interesting or pretty or intelligent enough? I am enough, like you are enough, like all of us women are enough to be acknowledged and treated with kindness and respect.
You are really phenomenal, and I just wanted to take a moment to tell you after all this time. You were absolutely right to speak up, and I hope more of us women will have the courage to do so in the future.
Lawd! The cheek of him speaking to you like that! It can feel so lonely in these environments where you’re experiencing crap on a daily basis purely because you’re not a man. It’s insane.
The not searching yourself for faults and paying attention to the facts of the situation and how you feel, makes a big difference. That person’s behaviour is external to you. You shouldn’t have to be taller or of a different age in order for him to treat you with respect.
Thank you for your wonderful message of support, Ashley. I so appreciate you reaching out.
I think more needs to be done on this, like a direct reply to the woman’s dismissive response, perhaps not only from you, but with others weighing in, too, like your friend who recommended you to the panel and maybe some of us, too. Perhaps also a letter to the organization itself, including to her superiors. If this woman didn’t show one shred of accountability to the situation, this should not just be let go. Also, for her to bring in race, when the discussion of race was never on the table, is beyond not ok. Again, I would write a letter to her superiors. I know it’s not in the culture as much in the UK to be like this, but I think you need to get in their face a bit.
Signed,
An American supporter
Yes, I would support not letting this be as well! Maybe the guy on the panel who was giving you the looks of understanding and shock, could help as well. This is utter insanity with such more-than-ironic lack of awareness and sensitivity of the person who was panel-chair, that this should be addressed.
I wonder how she reacted at the moment you said what you did right then and there on the panel. I’d have stood up and applauded you 🙂
Also, I’m so sorry such a sad thing happened to you in a place you’d least expect it to happen, a place you’d explicitly expect to be safe from this type of ignorance. Keep it up, and we’re keeping up with you!
Thank you for your support. I think overall, every single person sat at that table could have done more. It’s Bystander Effect. Even the guy who tried to have my back acknowledged that he could have done more but, understandably, hadn’t wanted to be the guy taking over the women’s event.
Hi American Ally. Thank you for your note of support. I posted the full contents of the email minus her name and tagged most of the speakers as well as her. https://twitter.com/baggagereclaim/status/972812943774580736 She blocked me but my point was made.
Powerful words. A call to action if ever I heard one. Appalled by your experience and empowered by your words. Mention of your girls got to me and this is the point. You speak for them, for my daughters and all young women who may find themselves in a situation that needs their courage. It’s bigger than just you.
The organisers response, one of diversion tactics and blaming you is classic gaslighting and victim shaming behaviour. So glad you called her out and pleased you’ve taken the high road despite the immense temptation/pressure(?) to name and shame. When they go low we go high. Onwards Queen Nat! *Wakanda salute*
Thanks Karen — and I know how much you love my two girls. What she did is very much gaslighting and I’m the wrong frickin person to try to pull that crap on. *Wakanda salute*
In a strange way, this might have been a really good thing. As my Sponsor is frequently telling me, people listen but they are always watching what you are doing. It is one thing to hear someone speak about respecting yourself but it is such a powerful thing to actually see someone doing it. Especially in the type of situation that you respected yourself in. I am positive you made an enormous impact on several of the people in the audience and possibly the others on the panel.
Very true, Debbie. I received so many messages over this past week and I think people realise that I’m not just *talking* about the values and principles that I do – I’m living them. I’ve realised that part of my journey is about sharing my struggles and how I navigate them. Thank you so much for your support.
Wow Nat, I think you are totally on to something here! The #metoo and #timesup movements are really about the devaluing, discounting, ridicule and consequences one (male or female) receives for speaking up.
This is so on time for me! This week I spoke out to my brothers (no sisters) after some inappropriate behavior the day after my stepfathers funeral. I got the whole “you’re wrong” “that’s not what happened” “you always do this”
etc for voicing my feelings and opinion.
This is part of a lifelong pattern I my family. I think that I’ve brought this fear of shaming into all of my adult relationships. I’ve made some unhealthy decisions as a result.
Darling Nat, I can’t thank you enough for all the help and comfort you’ve provided the past six years. God saw what happened. You’re an angel among us. XxOo
I’m sorry for your loss, Cathy. It’s hard enough to go through this without you having to deal with that carry-on. Some people love calling you out on your so-called issues without ever taking a look at their own actions. We live in a world where the person who flags up inappropriateness is the one with the problem – that’s so messed up! You have a gift in that experience because you have something so obviously wrong in that situation that’s flagged up a dynamic that you no longer want to be a party to. The only thing you’re always trying to do is be a decent, honest person.
Hi Natalie,
My heart is brighter.
I feel less alone in the world because if this post,so thank you.
You may not feel like it, but you have done a whole lot more for women – than you would have ever achieved should everything have gone according to plan.
The universe was in cahoots , and no nothing just happens.
You have a greater purpose Natalie.
There was no one more perfect for the unpleasant experience you became a central part of.
You had all our back and as another woman, thank you for reminding me to find my tribe & love them hard.
I think as a woman (black white or green skinned) nothing nothing nothing hits your core, more than feeling sold out by another woman.
There is a level of pain thats hits, it’s an indescribable feeling of betrayal.
Especially when you are participating in an event that by default you presume the same energy, encouragement and I’ll use the word Tribe.
I recently found the courage to break the silence on what was a very physically abusive relationship.
I do not fit the picture of a woman who would ensure assaults like I did.
That’s what made my situation more isolating and silencing.
I got judged for my regular attractiveness, blonde hair, BSc(hons) career & ability to articulate – in speaking my truth about my reality (and lie I was living)the black eyes, bruises, secret A&E visits …..I made alot of other woman feel very uncomfortable.
Not men, but women.
Woman who ideals on perfection, perfect marriage,perfect life, perfect good looking couple & two beautiful children – I clouded & dirtied.
In finding my voice & courage I was isolated more, by some of the very women who advocate for DV.
DV is reserved for ” other types of women” – not attractive ones like me.
We need to shut up & take it or not ruin the fairy tale.
The truth does two things – sets you free ,or exposes the lie that you are.
You exposed that woman truth & maybe she does not know the lie she is living…but you brought her the awareness.
Good woman.
Thank you for finding the courage to not just forget about it, pretend it didnt matter or “just let it go”.
Thank you for being you.
Helen Ireland ?
Good to hear from you, Helen. I want to say I’m surprised but I’m not. You know how things can be at home – code of shame and silence. You’d think we’d have learned from all the bleedin’ scandals and yet you’ve still got these women turning up their feckin nose at you and judging you for being an attractive woman that’s experienced domestic violence. But here’s the truth: some of those women have been going through the same thing or had a parent who did and they don’t want to face it. I should come and visit this organisation that’s ‘supposed’ to be supporting you!
Thank you so much for speaking up. It has given me the courage to speak up in my situation at work when I am made invisible everyday by my colleagues too and to not be silent anymore no matter what the consequences. It is so powerful to hear you say I will not stand for this. I am not invisible. I am worth more than this. Thank you. #iamworthmorethanthis
Thank you, Ritu. This is exactly why I spoke up. How dare those people treat you that way. They will soon know that they have mistaken your kindness for weakness and that you are very far from being invisible.
By way of backing Natalie 100 thousand billion million in fact a gogol percent, the following, unedited email between myself and a client within the past 6 months. I think it’s fine b/c it’s my email and not THAT detailed in terms of naming names and represents ME:
With all due respect, I manage a lot of corporate tech
clients remotely, simultaneously and have for a long period of time.
As such, out of professional courtesy, I offer the following
pro bono consulting (that will be claimed as thus on my CV,
by the way) I hope will be seen constructively as the app develops
in beta and as the company might grow:
I stand by what was stated in my previous e-mail,
which includes looking forward to keeping the current
arrangement status quo based on the 1 expert base topic
that proceeded normally and without tech incidents and with
the full understanding that was not clear upfront when I joined
the project that the app is in beta.
However, given what is going on globally these days
relative to being a professional woman in the tech industry,
I need to let you know I don’t feel quite comfortable with the
exchange that has transpired regarding compensation, time,
technical problems and setting professional boundaries.
These should be separate issues from my answers and competition,
and should have be sorted as such prior to me calling attention to
and setting clear boundaries regarding retaking the test.
As such, be aware I feel undermined and dis-empowered — not a
good way to proceed in a working relationship.
Let’s be real here– I minored in political science so I know fared well on the test based on the
correct answers I know I submitted within the timeframe allowed. The tech
issues muddy the waters as far as what I answered vs. what was accepted
in the system, which is in part, in addition to the time and compensation factor,
why I refused to retake the test. It seems to me you had the option of pushing
it through as successful, based on that, but that is not the option you took — which is understandable. Offering an option upfront to obtain a better score or whatever based
on what the system may or may not have accepted is also reasonable. But stating that the
choice to exclude me from the topic had something to do with the way I answered the questions does not strike me as reasonable, given the technical issues which I did not question
aggressively, based on the app being in beta. I fully understood that the app or
company may be in stealth mode or may otherwise not want to discuss too much
about how the app works or doesn’t work for proprietary reasons.
I normally either press for more data (such as answers to the questions vs. my
supposed answers in real time, not weeks or days after the fact) or drop clients based on such somewhat confusing exchanges. In my experience, typically in remote work, such actions on the part of new clients tend to rather accurately predict compensation issues down the road that are not in my favor or best interest.
I’m making the choice at the moment to use this experience to grow professionally,
and I hope that you will too, by giving my feedback serious consideration. Fundamentally,
I think there is room for improvement in resolving technical issues and other conflicts without making me feel undermined and powerless to the process, in recognition of some of the unique challenges involved in working in a globally distributed environment on a beta product.
As stated, I hope not to expect further issues based on the 1 topic that proceeded through the established and stated processes normally. Yet, if something should happen in future, please do separate tech issues from the professional contribution I make officially and to which I lay
claim as the opportunity presents itself.
This is the final commentary I will make on the politics test problem per se, but
will be upon review at will and discretion should similar issues arise, as necessary.
–the end– — but not really, tho’, right?– –I am not invisible–
Gjes, I’m pretty certain that if you had been a man, you would not have been having this conversation with them. And go easy on the pro bono consulting because some of these folks devalue it but also because you might be doing it in situations where they can more than afford to pay for you. Don’t let yourself be exploited.
Hi Natalie — I wanted to see how this thread got sorted so I hope you get to see this. Even though it’s a while on, of course the issue is not dead. I plan to revisit this thread often and I hope others will too, and continue to comment. I hope you do the same and kind of “catch” everybody, to the extent you can. I hope you keep this thread evergreen so people can see it past the “scroll” left and right on the page for topics. This is a kind of watershed, I think, and fits in well with what is happening all over the world. I hope I will be able to share this post with other women (especially in STEM) and girls who will and can take the time to listen and to act. Thank you for taking the time to reply to all the people who backed you and in turn shared their stories. And yeah — pro bono is a no no should be my new mantra. Thank you for the insight, good looking out. Would you believe my typo just now was “bro bono” — it fits! That’s what’s up!
Natalie kindly came on my dating and relationships panel for AfriClick at University College London for Black History Month. She gave great advice to over 400 students and young professionals about how to navigate dating and retain your self respect. Really inspirational.
From when you arrived and were asked “what are you doing here?” “Not hello how may I help you?” – I already sensed a problem. You were literally INVISIBLE to her. Just Plain Wrong.
Will an event video be released?
Thanks so much for your support. I absolutely loved that event.
And you are right – it was wrong for start to finish and it won’t be happening to me again!
I don’t think that they recorded it but I am going to double-check.
Thank you for speaking up, Natalie.
As a black women, I experience such discrimination often. This post is inspiring!
As you have mentioned women, including those from “minority” backgrounds, can be complicit in such oppression.
“We will not be silenced”
Thank you. We will not be silenced indeed.
Natalie,
I am so sorry that you were treated in a way that so many women experience every day. And kudos to you for speaking out about it! So many women would not have; would have been embarrassed, not wanting to call attention to themselves because, as you said, it would be perceived as being “unladylike” or “making a fuss.”
And for this to have happened to YOU, *you* who have championed so many of us who have let ourselves become victims to ACs who utterly used us only to stroke their own egos and make themselves feel “bigger.” It is beyond irony and a signal, somehow, that we are bigger and stronger than all of that bullshit people keep trying to feed us and we are not going to accept it anymore!
Please let us know if there is anything we can do for you as you have done so much for us.
Thank you so much, Meadowlark. I’ve been overwhelmed by the support I’ve received and it’s been so heartwarming. She messed with the wrong person and I wasn’t going to let her get away with that given the context of the event, the day and the audience of women who were sat there.
BRAVO!!!!!!!! and thank you, my hero!! Your video (and story and insight on it) did my soul good! You definitely advocated for yourself, but you also had to make a sacrifice to say what needed to be said. When someone puts something on the line to speak from the heart, I think most of us sit up and take note. You have always been a credible messenger, but I am so glad to see your message amplified. I wish I could have seen and heard it in person–your simple message lit up like a laser beam. Maybe you don’t exactly associate being fed up or tired with being a hero, but that’s precisely what underlies some of the most powerful, resonant messages I’ve ever heard.
“The only tired I was, was tired of giving in.” Rosa Parks
Gosh, this message just made me beam from inside, Anna. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
Brava, Nat!
Glad I circled back to listen to the audio on this after I read the post yesterday.
Too many things to say and too little time to stitch them together into a coherent comment now.
At the day job I just got fired from (that I never wanted to do in the first place, but overrode my better judgment and let myself get pushed into), I have never felt more invisible; many times a day hearing the refrain in my head of “Mr. Cellophane” from the musical “Chicago”.
Ever since I moved to L.A. from San Diego via Tokyo, I became increasingly aware that women defend their turf just as aggressively as the most insecure men do.
I’m getting better at calling shit out when I see it, though.
Oh no, I’ve said too much! I haven’t said enough.
Thank you for another clear, detailed primer on how to do it.
Brenda, congratulations on being fired. You are worth more than that job and no one should have to go through life being treated as if they’re invisible. Thanks for your support.
Thank you, Nat! I was taken aback at how the people I thought had my back would reflexively shame and judge me whenever I expressed being unhappy in that job without even listening to my reasons why! It is good to get confirmation that the shit we are experiencing is real when faced with loved ones trying to gaslight us into believing otherwise. You rock!
Thanks Nat for telling your story. You had me from the start. To be treated as invisible and then accused that you aren’t visible enough. I was overlooked at a conference (not in a similar way as this) and I’m also a woman of color. And I didn’t speak out. It wasn’t as big a deal as yours but also I realized that I really didn’t care. Emotion fatigue. And being used to being invisible. it was more of a committee where people had to be introduced but didn’t have to say anything. So I decided not to bring it up with the organizer. And I dont regret it. But I do regret that I have become so used to be ignored that I now pick my battles. A few weeks after that something much more serious happened and I totally stood up for myself. The person in charge was like oh it’s not personal. And I said yes of course it’s not personal it is a professional matter. But I probably went overboard then because not only is there the shame of being publicly excluded but then you second guess yourself and have so many incidents that you have ignored that end up piling up onto the incidents where you decide to take a stance.
And finally. I see men network. And they do things for each other and they make connections immediately. I get more networking benefits from men than I do with women. Women are always more cautious and don’t sometimes have access to opportunities to offer to their network. I read that to remedy this we need to make active choices e.g. what I read women chose to do in meetings to avoid men taking credit – if a woman has an idea then other women should repeat it before a man can take credit. As Betty said … We need to support each other.
There is so much truth in this, Resignedtoit. The build-up does happen when too many things pass through the red light. The thing is, it’s bloody tiring to be having to fight *all* the time.
I also agree about the networking. The old boys club. We’re striving to do better as women but we need to start having each other’s back, as you said, in those instances where we can quick but very profitable wins, such as in those meetings. Instead, we fear rocking the boat. We need to support each other for sure.
Nat I agree with you that it is tiring having to fight all the time. I also often feel fed up that I am speaking up and making things better for others. But I have been given knowledge and a voice that other people don’t have and won’t remain silent. To think I once apologised to a man for being Feisty, good god I’ve woken up since then.
If people especially men cannot cope with a forthright, independent woman then it is their problem not mine. I am a very kind, compassionate person and cannot change who I am but no-one takes advantage of me. I deal two strikes then I am out. Strike one is the benefit of the doubt, strike two and out is a repeat of strike one because otherwise you end up in a situation that is like a merry-go-round.
I listened to the audio and agree with what you said about how we are conditioned to be one thing and one way but then become invisible. Hard as it might be to be visible and taken note of, I have found that when I speak and occasionally roar, boy to do people take a step back. Most people and certainly men underestimate me thinking that because I am so “nice” I can be walked over.
What they don’t realise is that this brunette has their number as in mo, and is ahead of them long before they realise it. If I play along then it is to be sure that my guts are right about what they are saying to me before I become visible. I am not manipulative but will happily play dumb to assimilate information and protect my position, so that if I need to speak up, then it is from a position of strength with all the facts I need to hand. If people underestimate me or cross me, they find out I am worth so much more than they are and I make myself very visible.
By staying silent Nat you were assimilating information so you could then speak with authority which you did. Sometimes it is required of us to stay silent and not become visible from a position that allows us to speak over emotionally and weaken the impact of our words.
Natalie,
I just read the email from the event organizer on your twitter account. Besides her lack of an apology and blaming you, the biggest thing that stuck out to me were all the “I” statements. Her response to you was all about her!! She gave herself an ego boost responding in a grandiose manner. It’s almost laughable. I’m sorry you were not heard by her. As women, we want our voices to be heard. I applaud you for speaking up and not being invisible. As a previous commmenter posted, you backed up your words of being worth more by taking action to be seen. What you did was courageous and brave. You spoke for all women who have felt invisible.
I had an experience about a week ago standing up to a colleague who is a bully to staff. I work in a female dominated profession, but am also a provider of female health care. The bully I refer to is one very male providers who is in a superior position to me. I was caring for a young women who had little to no health care, poor social situation, and very limited support. She had multiple medical conditions that had not been addressed. I spent over an hour with her as she was tearful. She just wanted to be heard. When I returned from providing care to her, the male bully started in on me for all the time I spent with her. Mind you, there are about 10 other health care workers in an enclosed space witnessing this interaction. I stated I had empathy for her situation and she just wanted to be heard. He stated, “Well, it’s a good thing you have empathy because I don’t.” He’s also a provider of women’s health care!! Then he started in on how she has made decisions to be in the predicament she is in. I responded with, “People do the best they can with what they know. While she has made decisions, it doesn’t mean I can’t have empathy for her.” He used my response to start making fun of me and pulling others into the conversation. I didn’t back down from him. While I am used to his bullying and his tactics of making a spectacul of people, what I was appalled at was no other women in that enclosed space spoke up. It wasn’t that I wanted others to defend me, it was that no other women defended the female patient. Because the truth is, I’m guessing some of the women in the room probably had the same opinion he did. Again, we are providers of women’s health care. I stood my ground with him and defended my patient’s dignity.
Thank you for your support. Also apologies that I missed your comment. There are so some genuinely compassionate people out there, such as yourself, who care about their patients and their outcomes and who don’t just see them as irritants or label them based on their experiences and their mistakes. Sadly the health profession also has people within it who dehumanise the very people who are coming to them for help and support. The callousness of that man is pretty astounding and all of these incidents should be noted. He’s a danger to patients and this pattern of thinking and behaviour is manifesting itself in other ways within your organisation. Thank goodness she had you to advocate for her.
Hi Natalie, I am appalled at your treatment, especially given the circumstances. You did a wonderful thing in speaking up, we all need to do it. The Me Too campaign is about how people have sat in silence AND WILL NO LONGER!! It’s true that our brothers AND sisters around the world can be perpetrators. The person who ‘disregarded you’ and people who have such a big part of events (such as the one you attended) need to “Walk the Walk” as well as “Talk the Talk” – else the words become meaningless.
Something in particular that I believe though. Our lives are a journey and some of us (not all)
will do ‘work’ on ourselves. Not because we think we are total right-offs, but because we decide we want to be better versions of ourselves. Thus the reason why I and many others read your newsletters and listen to your blogs etc. – THANKS VERY MUCH FOR THIS!!
However – this world is imperfect and will always be. (How beautiful it is though – this imperfection!) As I said before, “some of us will ‘work’ on ourselves” – unfortunately not all of us. So each of us can say to ourselves, “I am good enough”, also “I am worth more than this” and stand up/speak for ourselves. Through this, the world will improve for us all. However – I think there are always going to be men and women who hurt others, don’t take a close look at themselves/know who they are and take no responsibility for what they say and do.
Thank you for all of your amazing comments. I’m going to get caught up and reply to you all individually tomorrow. Your support is so very much appreciated. Big squeezy hugs, Nat
I have experienced the same as Natalie so I know how that felt and it is appalling. You tell the truth and are criticised for it and demeaned. After reading this post I got back to a cruise company. The reason for contact with them is that I was groped by a man in his late 80s on a ship last year whilst at dinner minding my own business and doing nothing to attract attention. He was a ladies man 31 years older then me and had been flirting with another single woman on the table in front of his wife! The ship dealt with it but there were failings in how they initially responded and in terms of follow up. I had to make two calls to say I was groped after the incident and then had to ring and chase up what action they took.
When I got home I contacted the cruise company and said that he was a risk to women ( I knew he’d been at this for years) especially women travelling alone and should be banned from the ships. I also felt he should have been put off the ship at the time as they will put people off for disruptive behaviour. They weren’t interested and I wasn’t happy with their response but then health problems loomed and took priority. Cue the Weinstein outages and as my health had improved I got back to them. They told me I’d be contacted and 4 weeks later nothing. So I went for it again saying I didn’t like being treated as if I was invisible making the same points again and again they stood by their initial response. I am voting with my feet and won’t consider this company again.
Not only that but on their Facebook feed they celebrated international women’s day which I felt was hypocritical and told them as much on their feed because they were allowing a pervert free access onto their ships to grope women. I have no doubt that this man will try it again with another woman who might not be resilient enough to keep on at a large international cruise company. The industry is known for keeping incidents such as these under wraps and there is an organisation for cruise victims of crime, murder and sexual assault etc. who want my story as they are collecting cases to force changes in the cruise industry. The effects of what this predatory man did have impacted me in several ways as nothing like this had ever happened to me. I felt I was in a safe environment and found myself in a situation no woman should be in with no help from others at my table who suddenly became blind.
Currently I am working to overcome feelings of revulsion towards men and am not my previous sassy self. I am on the page of I will speak up and tell the truth and to hell with the consequences. If other people can’t cope that is their problem not mine. Sadly it is a man’s world and as women we often don’t give each other enough support but demeaning those who do speak up for themselves and speak out to expose shady behaviour isn’t acceptable.
That guy is super creepy and it’s appalling that the cruise company has failed to act – and it’s because the company culture supports that activity and thinks he’s a “harmless old man entertaining the ladies” or you’re not talking to the organ grinder, and so the person you’re dealing with is incompetent and possibly hoping you will go away. Basically it’s a lack of customer service tainted with good ole sexism. Post on the company’s Facebook page and say that you have repeatedly asked for a member of staff to get in touch and address the issue or get the details of the MD’s office and explain that you have not been getting anywhere with customer service.
Nat I am going to print off the e-mail trail and post it to the CEO. The police have recorded this as a sexual assault which vindicates me. Though they cannot investigate as this didn’t occur on UK soil, the cruise company now has a sexual assault crime logged against their company which should cause concern. Not all cruise lines are like this but standards are generally low and many crimes are ignored. At the end of the day they may not change but I have voted with my feet not to give them any more of my money. I also have been true to my values and boundaries which is more important.
You go girl! You are an inspiration.
Thank you!
Dear Natalie,
I am very sorry. I am white, but ‘not that white’, coming from a Southern European country, and I am experiencing forced invisibility every day (I am in academia in North America, the only non-North American in my cohort), and yes, women do it too. All the time.
Yesterday I went to a conference where the only commentary the men made about what the woman had just presented were jokes and laughter. I commented on her work. I almost spoke up to point out what was going on. I will do it for sure next time.
In class, my words get appropriated by male colleagues and repeated half an hour later, and nobody notices. The second time it happened, I spoke up, even though it had been my prof doing it.
I don’t have much more to add to what everybody has already told you, just that it’s exhausting, and that while we have to fight the fight, we should also allow ourselves to be angry, sad and frustrated.
Today I’ve been to a bad date, but it’s nothing compared to this. Or better, it’s part of the same system, I guess. But we shall overcome 🙂
All the love, and a big big hug dear Natalie
xoxo
Gosh, I don’t miss sitting in meetings where men try to steal your words that they didn’t acknowledge only minutes before and then make out as if you’re not a “team player” if you don’t let them take credit ?
Thank you for your support, Fran. I agree that it’s exhausting. It can consume you and I’ve had to be careful of not letting it steal my wind. The system is so screwed up.
An important point to raise and I’m glad you did the video to talk about it. Women are talked over and made to feel invisible all the time and then made fun of if they dare to ever bring it up. The most recent example of this for me was visiting a car dealership to buy a car with my husband and kids in tow and the salesman asking my husband what car I wanted. Unbelievable. Well done standing up for yourself in a measured and thoughtful manner.
Update on my situation.
I found out that the cruise company took the man’s word that his actions weren’t malicious or sexual and took no action against him so he is free to grope other women on any cruise ship. WTF! Yes he got upset but these men do because he was busted and he played them so it was no big deal to them or him. No man has any frickin’ right to touch a woman without her consent and no man touches me without my consent without there being consequences. This has had a big impact on me and now I am making a complaint about sexual assault to the police. He needs to be stopped and I am the women who can stop him. Not only that but the cruise company need to know that sexual assault is a big deal and maybe this will force them to change their attitudes because for years the cruise industry has been sweeping this shady behaviour under the carpet. I am not invisible but if I say nothing then I am and I am not doing myself or other women any favours. Natalie your post couldn’t have come at a better time for me and with the encouragement of another woman (my father’s companion) who is supporting me and has my back, I am able to add my voice to say no to sexual assault on women by men. Thankyou.
? How ridiculous is that salesman???? The funny thing is that I’m reading this brilliant book that talks about the outdated salesman and your experience is exactly why people have negative associations with car salesmen.
We have a builder who seems to think that only my husband knows what’s what. Well, I ripped him a new one the other day and now he’s tiptoeing!
“Ripped him a new one”. I love your turn of phrase Nat.Feisty
Thank you for making this video. It’s incredibly relevant to a professional experience I also had on International Women’s Day this year, unfortunately. I spoke up too, and wasn’t popular for it, so it’s reassuring to hear you speak about why we need to. I love your blog and feel for the audience of that IWD panel who missed out on an opportunity to hear you speak more.
I’m sorry that you went through it too. I do think it’s appalling that given the context of the day and the stated intentions and values of organisers, that you would be unpopular for speaking up. That’s ridiculous. So, let me get this right: they’re encouraging women to speak up but just so long as it’s not to them? That’s hollow values right there. And do you know what? I feel that life was doing one of it’s twisty ‘your plan is not the plan’ life lessons and that what I did end up speaking on and out about was exactly why I was there. I was supposed to call attention to the bullshit and use my own struggle to shine a light on the struggles of the very people that panel was supposed to be serving. Like a living lesson type of thing. *grits teeth*. Haha.
Dear Natalie,
Thank you thank you thank you. I can assure you that this happens a LOT. I have personally experienced it time and again when I have to make an effort to catch the eye of the moderator – almost to a preschooler ‘raise your hand’ level (where I’m seething and thinking ‘are you BLIND’) – when they keep asking the men for views. It’s my sense that many times the moderator is a people pleasing case as well and shows unconscious or conscious bias in who she designates as more powerful.
Sometimes a guy in a meeting will just repeat what I said and it will be headlined as ABC said ‘..’ – hello?!! I said it! I’ve had instances when I will be the only person who won’t be introduced in the group to a client – and all this because I am consistently ‘difficult’ because I do speak up. But it is mortifying – the insult, shame and embarrassment- you can even see how the client team has noticed it and since you haven’t been introduced they don’t know how to react. And yes you put it on yourself to not ‘rock the boat’.
Flight reservations. I’ve seen women take travel (business class at that )reservations more seriously with my male colleagues and cater to minor logistics issues. As women we are not supposed to have an opinion and it’s like they are doing a favour when they are doing exactly the same thing for others..?! These sound minor but it is so irritating when it happens consistently.
As I type this I again have that voice in my head that pipes up ‘oh dear does it sound like I’m complaining’..’will I sound like I’m being difficult’. But you know what – after your experience – YOU Natalie, who are such an inspiration to me and have through your blog and podcast helped me through a difficult time in my life last year – if people like you also experience this : I say it’s bloody OK to be difficult.
It’s time to let people who have problems deal with their problems. I’m really
sorry again that you had to go through it.
I notice this happens to men too – but it takes a LOT for them to get to that level of threat with the boss/colleague whoever. I have been rendered invisible by men and women. As a minority woman (confident, qualified and respected by peers) all you need to do is speak and the ego takes a big hit.
These guys eventually unravel but notnbefore they have crushed many others. And no it’s not because those people didn’t ‘speak up’, it’s because they did. I think more people should speak so the force is stronger and therefore hat tip to you Nat!
OMG I just read your twitter feed and the emails you got from the organiser in response to your speaking up! Ultimate BS!! ‘..step up and be responsible for unconscious bias’ ..I mean, how bizarre. As creepy as those shady men who advertise themselves as feminists and then proceed to mansplain what it really means.
Hi Natalie – I’m sorry that you had to experience that, but thank you so much for sharing. As a woman, I have often been treated like I’m invisible (though not while sitting as an invited guest on a women’s rights-focused panel – that’s insane!), and it has impacted me. Whenever someone like you bravely stands up for herself and shows that she knows her own value, it gives all of us that boost of courage to do the same. It also helps prevent us from allowing ourselves to be manipulated into believing that what happened didn’t happen, was our own fault, or didn’t matter.
Regarding the specific situation, not only was your treatment at the panel ridiculous and unacceptable, the response you got from that organizer afterwards just added insult to injury. It sounds like she needs to undergo some training and deep self-reflection before taking on a similar role in the future. Some people would rather attack another than accept responsibility (and blame). I wonder whether she knew she’d messed up and was too insecure to admit she’d made a mistake, but whatever her reasons, her behavior was wrong and hurtful. You are right that as women, we need to be aware that we can also be part of the problem – internalized sexism and racism and horizontal oppression is very real. You deserved so much better, and I’m glad you know that.
Again, thank you for taking a painful experience and turning it into a lesson in self-respect and dignity – both in terms of how we treat ourselves and how we treat others. I have tremendous respect for you, and I am so grateful for all you have given me through your blog, books, and podcasts (which I miss, by the way)!
Best,
Sarah
Natalie!!! Whoa. Live is a wild beast. You are the best. Honestly, I think it was important you were at this conference because You Spoke Up. This irony cannot be made up! You gave a real time display of how to speak up. You are a beacon showing us we are worth more. It was real time. Not staged. By women to women. I wish it hadn’t been painful tho and hope you feel empowered as you empowered us. I love your heart and mind and thoughtfulness and courage. Please go to more panels!
Chicago fan
Natalie- you are so right- proud you spoke up! And you are right that sometimes women promote the patriarchy too- the same patriarchy that holds us back. You are amazing, insightful, inspiring- keep going!
Love you so much!
LauraK
It is so good to hear your voice speak up and out again, been missing the Podcast but replying my favourite episodes.
It’s really pretty disturbing that people who are considered professionals not only went through the whole event without any one person gently informing the moderator at some point before it was over, or complete a head count and impromptu seating arrangement fix to have you sit with everyone else.
But the non-apology and the lack of remorse or insight into why making some kind of gesture to show respect for your time in preparing and attending and any transportation costs incurred, and even better, going on to tell you what you were apparently feeling and thinking without any basis other than to further demean you and have something they must have thought was easier for them to argue against… That’s really concerning.
That doesn’t sound like a nonapology; sounds quite similar to tactics used by gaslighting and manipulative people.
You’d think they’d be grateful you managed to not go off on them during the event.
Nat, I am so sorry you went through this! But I am glad you spoke up and I know this will help other people as well.
I have been in a similar position and it is not easy. A few years ago the head of the department in which I am a graduate student organized a meeting for women (only) to discuss these types of questions. She asked every person in the room to talk about their experiences, but me. People noticed but no one stood up for me (at the time I was struggling with major depression and definitely had no energy to stand up for myself, which many people in this group knew about). Afterwards, a couple other grad students came to me and mentioned “Hey we never got to hear your story” and the organizer was right behind them. She never mentioned a thing. Other faculty present never mentioned a thing. These were all women.
And then I had to hear from many guys (students) how discriminatory was to have a party for women only. Honestly I cannot even….