One of my consistent recommendations to people is to have an ongoing honest conversation with yourself and most of this comes down to asking questions and listening to your thoughts. We often bumble along through life unconsciously, not challenging our beliefs, not questioning our actions and the validity of some of our ‘big ideas’, so I want to regularly do little quizzes to provoke that thought process and to help uncover blocks to improving our self-esteem and our relationship habits.
The first mini quiz is about attraction and your beliefs around feeling and receiving interest from others. The more you answer ‘agree’ with the following statements, the more opportunity you have to address some ‘blocks’. I have been ‘guilty’ of 8 of these in the past.
1. I believe that there are certain types of people I could not be involved with.
2. If someone is physically attractive and shares some of my interests, that makes us compatible.
3. I believe in love at first sight.
4. I can tell very quickly whether a date has the potential to turn into a relationship.
5. If someone doesn’t reciprocate my interest, I feel more interested and more curious.
6. I believe that you can’t help who you’re attracted to.
7. I like and use dating sites because it feels good to have people interested in me.
8. Sometimes, even though I’m not really interested in someone, I need to know that they’re interested in me.
9. If someone isn’t interested in me, I feel I have to work harder to make them interested in me by proving myself to them.
Read on for the ‘answers’….
1. I believe that there are certain types of people I could not be involved with.
As long as those ‘certain types’ come under the headings of stuff like emotionally unavailable, red flaggers, and assclowns, you’re good to go. However if it’s based on anything else, particularly if it’s superficial or basically not related to shared values, or you think you can only be with a ‘type’, you are limiting your options. I’ll put it this way, if you have a type and you’re not happily in a relationship with it and never have been, you have a toxic type that you need to flush out.
I vowed I would never be involved with someone who is sports crazy (especially cricket), loves sci-fi, and is a Pisces. The boyf is all of these things…
2. If someone is physically attractive and shares some of my interests, that makes us compatible.
If I could press a wrong answer buzzer for you, I would. They can look just as you want them to and have a shared love of paragliding, high brow books, Argentinean steaks, and a love of dogs, but if you don’t share core common values, you are incompatible.
Shared values create a shared future and direction for the relationship.
3. I believe in love at first sight.
Not only do you give yourself so much credit that you believe you can love someone on sight, but it implies that love doesn’t ‘grow’, it just ‘happens’. If people have felt love at first sight and lasted, they’re the exception not the norm.
Until you get to know someone in reality, what you love is an image in your mind.
4. I can tell very quickly whether a date has the potential to turn into a relationship.
While sometimes you’ll be right, sometimes you may actually be being too hasty, especially if your reason for discarding the potential of someone is based in unhealthy relationship beliefs. Particularly if you have a ‘type’ and a ‘pattern’, I would re-evaluate your ‘hiring and firing’ process.
Remember there is no fire. The sky won’t fall down if you go on an extra date or two.
5. If someone doesn’t reciprocate my interest, I feel more interested and more curious.
Be careful. Disinterest is your ‘hook’ when actually disinterest should be the sound of alarm bells ringing and a signal for you to back off physically, mentally, and emotionally. The curiosity and increased interest is caused by the perceived rejection, which in you wanting to validate yourself via getting their attention causes you to feel the increasing interest the less attention that you get.
You cannot get everyone’s interest. It’s a pain in the arse, but it’s life. Keep the amount of energy, time, emotions etc that you invest in a disinterested party to an absolute minimum.
6. I believe that you can’t help who you are attracted to.
Yes you can, especially if you are conscious in your relationships instead of sleepwalking and being swept along in the wind. Don’t render yourself helpless. If what you feel you can’t help being attracted to is something that ends up detracting from you and is even dangerous, work on finding the root of the attraction and having healthier beliefs and love habits.
When you discover that walking in front of oncoming traffic causes you to get run down, you stop doing it and/or proceed with caution.
7. I like and use dating sites because it feels good to have people interested in me.
If you’ve ever had someone use you for an ego stroke, remember that feeling well before you click. Also remember that dating sites are already full of attention seekers cluttering it up that have no real intention of forging connections. Don’t let that be you! What you’re doing is ‘collecting’ attention and while we’re all human and like some attention, you may get hooked on getting attention instead of forging connections.
Remember, just because someone gives you some attention or is interested doesn’t mean you have to be interested or that they’re ‘right’ for you.
8. Sometimes, even though I’m not really interested in someone, I need to know that they’re interested in me.
Why? What does it tell you about you when someone who you are not even interested in wants you? Work on liking and loving you and more importantly validating yourself. Don’t be an attention seeker and focus your energies on forging real connections instead of temporary ego strokes.
9. If someone isn’t interested in me, I feel I have to work harder to make them interested in me by proving myself to them.
This is how you can end up opening yourself up to doing things that you may later come to view as embarrassing or even humiliating. If someone doesn’t share your interest, back off because you’re not a used car salesman and you don’t need to sell someone the concept of you. There could be all sorts of reasons why they’re not interested and it doesn’t have to be about you, but it’s the topline information that counts – they’re not interested.
Being in love with someone is something that you can do on your own, but a mutually fulfilling, loving relationship takes two.
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Excellent!! “This is how you can end up opening yourself up
to doing things that you may later come to view as embarrassing or
even humiliating. If someone doesn’t share your interest, back off
because you’re not a used car salesman and you don’t need to sell
someone the concept of you. ” This is were I am right now,
embarrass and mad with myself for asking him out and him saying no.
Is not that I wanted him badly, but I guess I wanted to be
available so I kind of loose patiente and asked him out. Now I feel
stupid, the worst is that we work in the same building. But I am
afraid he might thing I am a freak. I don’t know, is not just what
he thinks but how I feel like a failure. I still have a bad taste
in my mouth, is time to move on. I have a lot to learn and I am
almost 40 :/
Allie, I would give yourself a break. I get it that you got
impatient and asked a guy out. I am old fashion too and would
prefer the guy to asked me out but I have friends that do the
asking so you can chalk it up to you being a modern woman. If he
thinks your a freak for confronting him, I think that would mean he
is an egomaniac and that is worse than a freak in my books. Someone
who would dwell on that has maturity issues and you dodged a huge
bullet by his decline. Besides he is the one with an issue if he is
the one acting interested by giving you that impression, he should
feel ashamed not you. Anyways, it sounds like you are using the
relationship from your ex to compound this rejection because it
really is a small incident if you think of it. I went out for new
years with a female friend and she would go around at the bar and
asked guys to dance some would and many declined because they have
a girlfriend. She told me that people here in Canada take dancing
as something else. In Europe where she is originally from they take
it as dancing period. However she said she isn’t going to argue
with anyone and she just moves on no matter how many people
decline. SHE’S RIGHT!
Allie, I wanted to add to the modern woman point. It is up
to each individual if you value being a modern woman or an old
fashion one. That being said asking a guy out once and being
rejected if you are from the modern woman point of view is not the
same as chasing a disinterested man. Not taking his no like many of
these EUM’s on here is chasing and thats when you need to learn to
back off. Asking a man out is opening yourself up to a new
opportunity. A man who has been flirting and declines your
invitation is opening yourself up for moving forward because you
nip it in the bud, found out where he stood and what his intentions
with you are and now you can move on. If you stay around and try to
get him interested or if you dwell on why he wasn’t then you open
yourself up to chasing. You did nothing wrong if anything I give
you koodles for asking and braving the answer. I have actually
recently been saying to myself that I waste too much time not
asking and hoping they like me because I am afraid to find out they
don’t. I hope by next time I find out and accept their lack of
interest from the get go instead of hanging around in hopes that
they do or will. I admire what you did. You go girl.
No need to feel stupid Allie. You asked him out, he declined. Men ask out women all the time and get knocked back. We have to remember that just because we’re interested doesn’t mean they’re under obligation to reciprocate. There could be any number of reasons why he declined and not one of them has to be something to do with you being a failure. However, your *reasons* for asking him out are dubious. If you ask someone out because you’re genuinely interested, great. But asking someone out because you want to be available to him even though you’re not that interested is a bit odd. And trust me, people ask out work colleagues all the time. Just say ‘Bygones’ and move on. Don’t make this a crazy big deal.
Thanks Natalie and MH, Thanks for your kind coments. I did
asked him out because he seemed to be a good catch and I was
interested. I guess my ego is a little bruce but I won’t pursue
this no more. It is not going to make me a better woman or improve
my career dating him, so really I didn’t loose to much. I am
atractive and haven’t had to ask before, and the times I have asked
out I always got a yes. So that was my first no. I will just move
on and will not punish myself so much over this.
Allie, speaking as typical man, he probably has NO CLUE that you are even attracted to him.
If you didn’t actually ask him out and he didn’t explicitly reject you then I can practically guarantee that he has no clue.
Workshy Joe
I was really explicit when I asked him out. I thin he is really to shy. Anyway, he said no and he said it kind of rude. He is like 54 and educated, but the way he answer kind of blew me off base. After all he said about being tyred of being lonely. I don’t understand him. It is his prerrogative to say no, maybe I am just not his type or I am just too much strait forward, or whatever. Thanks for you kind comments, though.
Gosh, Nat, do you know what I love in your posts like this. It’s showing me, what kind of baby beliefs about relationships I have. All this statements above sounds so baby like, dont they. And its scary to realize that I carry still some of them around me.
Huge slap in the face.
Again Nat you identified past relationship bad
habits/behaviors. Guilty of almost all of them. Nice to know – not
anymore. I have dealbreakers, particular red flags to pay attention
too and I am not hesitant to fish or cut bait. My gut instinct is
my guide and I listen to it. If I was single I would give it a date
or two maybe three to be certain but if my gut still says.. ah no –
then its a no. That way there is no or very little chance of
“talking myself into” a situation I really don’t want to be in or
emotionally investing too soon. Personal electric fence on – check.
All systems go.
Love your comments Movedup. Keep moving! Your gut is pivotal. Friends used to tell me to give someone another try that at a gut level I felt really uncomfortable with – I had to trust myself. Maybe the odd time I was wrong, but invariably, I was right when I listened to my gut instead of ego/libido/friends.
I’m guilty of most of them, or at least was until recently.
No wonder all my “relationships sucked”. They didn’t, I did. I
stopped all this behavior late last year and feel like I’m
relearning how to walk. It sucks but I know it will make me a
better me!
Hi Miriam, keep walking. You didn’t suck but your habits needed some ‘fine tuning’ and consciousness.
Very illuminating. That has helped me a lot. Thanks, a
great idea to do a quiz.
Thank you!
I’m currently guilty of #5. Thanks Nat. I needed this post today. I’ve wasted too much time and energy already and for what?
Disinterest has never been my “hook” before, but in this case it for sure is. I guess I’ve never had to deal with someone who was not interested whom I see on a daily basis. It makes moving on much more of a challenge when you see the person all the time. I need to bring the focus back to me and what I think and less of what he thinks.
FiguringItOut – Yes, what he thinks is really not important. It’s important to realise that really, in them not being interested, you’re dousing down your interest. Him not being interested doesn’t mean that he’s ‘bad’ but as I said to someone else, there could be umpteen reasons why they’re not interested, but ultimately they’re not. You don’t really need to know why he’s not – he just isn’t. You’ve not been interested in every single person who ever showed interest in you and you probably don’t even know why each time. I had to work with my ex with the girlfriend. It was like a great big smelly wet fish slap in the face each day and at first I let my ego get the better of me and then I remembered – you snooze, you lose. Bygones!
Natalie, you are such a inspiration. Thank you for all you do to keep this blog alive and help us all on our paths towards relationship sanity.
Fantastic post. I’ve said it before, but I attribute my
happy 14 month relationship on this site alone. THANK YOU!
Ah thanks Blaise! So pleased for you but the work is all yours! (((hugs)))
Thanks, Nat, for so simply putting it. I’ve been guilty of
these things in at least once each, over the course of my
relationships (three real and a number of imaginary). Since
breaking up with the hopeless flip-flapper mentioned in last post,
I’ve opened up my eyes to a lot of behaviours from this and
previous relationships, which had previously gone unnoticed. I’ve
been needy, attention-seeking, desperate, co-dependent… and never
realised or believed I could have better. The thought of putting
myself out there is terrifying. I don’t think I’ve ever really
‘dated’… people don’t seem to really do that here (Australia), as
they do in the US. It seems that most people just meet through
friends of friends, or social groups somehow. They get onto each
other at a party and the next thing you know they’ve been together
a few years and are getting married! I’m seeing a psych now, as I
realised that my poor relationship behaviour and choices are rooted
in deep issues… This blog has been an incredible source of
strength and inspiration for me, as I move onwards and
upwards.
Betty, I think what you said about not realizing that you
deserve better really stands out for me rather than believing I
don’t deserve better. I have never really liked that term and when
I saw you use not realize I like that better. I think I have
discovered today my love habits are not as unhealthy as they use to
be, way back when and that I actually learned after my last
relationship. With my last situation I was able to walk away
because I have learned from my past. I would rather look at my love
habits as needing some tweaking than thinking I need a whole make
over. I have come along way and your simple words help to realize
that. It seems you realized that about yourself as well.
Betty, it’s the same here in the UK. Dating is very much I feel an American thing. I was in a lot of respects like you. It never occurred to me that at a base level, I could do better. I didn’t have any personal examples of it. But then I looked around me and people can and do do better – why couldn’t I?, I wondered. Why was I so different? When I dealt with my own issues, I believed that I was capable of better – you will too x
@Betty: onwards and upwards… making your decision is the beginning for you i think:-)))) the beginning of a happier life.
Ladies and Natalie, I have benefitted so much from this
site – I appreciate the focus on all we can do to help ourselves
find a good relationship. Today I’m not so into hearing it’s all
‘our’ fault, though – not that Nat has ever been saying it’s about
fault. Today I think I finally realized what I have been allowing
to happen in my life. I just attended a talk from one of the people
who recently helped get our (Canadian) human trafficking laws get
changed. The number of women and girls being tricked into sex work,
and the simple everywhereness of this practice, was eye-opening to
all the august people in the room. One of the most affecting slides
was an excerpt from a handbook that traffickers use to teach each
other how to break the spirits of the young women they wish to turn
into ‘merchandise.’ I had to leave the room; I cried and heaved
sobs in the bathroom that came from the bottom of my gut. ACs
aren’t pimps, okay, I get that. But the tactics of taking a woman,
showing her affection and love, so that she comes to care and
depend on a man, then scaling back and eventually treating her like
crap so that she comes back like a crack addict wondering where the
love went, is a tried-and-true method of keeping women under their
control. These men have WRITTEN IT DOWN! Another tactic was to buy
her things after sex, then slowly scale back how much the woman
gets, until she’ll give a lot to get a little. And a lesser version
of breaking my spirit – if there can be a lesser version of that –
is what a couple of the worst guys in my life did – not to sell me,
of course, but at least to own me and feel powerful. And of course,
when your property goes missing, like a slave running free, you
want to hunt it down and get it back. I never understood before,
until my body let me know in that cubicle, that yes, these guys
knew what they were doing with me. They wanted me hooked. They
wanted me broken and coming to them. I feel stronger than ever
today, honestly, because of course, none of the men I have been
with would ever say they were treating me ill, I have had to work
it out on my own, just feeling and feeling and feeling and finally
deciding that not feeling like a relationship crack addict was
better than the daze of AC bullsh*t. I have been one to trust
anyone who pays me a certain kind of attention very quickly. I have
been one to feel like my guy had the ability to go out and pay for
sex and not want to believe that anyone could ever do that. I hope
that most of you will find my story to be on the extreme end of
realizations, but I do know that most of my ACs had a radar for
women who weren’t used to being treated well, and often we won’t
admit just how mean they can be. (Psychological control is more
effective than physical – have been there, and this talk on
trafficking only emphasized that point.) We don’t like to think
about it, but the practice of literally trading in women as though
they are property is not happening ‘somewhere else’. The industries
are all around us, all over the net, etc. We know this. Please,
please, please: if you are in a relationship with someone who is
being mean and nasty, then offering you little crumbs to keep you
hooked, believe that they don’t like you. Believe that they mean to
control you.
Wow. What great insight about the parallels between the
emotional tools sex traffickers use and the emotional tools abusive
partners use. I agree that the big picture is – we want to learn to
respect ourselves so others cannot take advantage of us. And by
doing that, we will be role models for our children and our
friends. And I agree with you that if we set strong boundaries all
the time, everywhere, we are much less likely to attract predators
to ourselves. I’ve had a similar experience with bullies. When I
consistently stand up to them, they either start behaving better or
they avoid me. Good riddance!
“I agree that the big picture is – we want to learn to respect ourselves so others cannot take advantage of us. And by doing that, we will be role models for our children and our
friends. And I agree with you that if we set strong boundaries all the time, everywhere, we are much less likely to attract predators to ourselves.” That’s it right there David – thank you.
David
Absolutely. If we habitually get involved with EUM and ACs then we MUST have low self esteem and poor boundaries. We can point to all the evidence that proves otherwise, (as I have done) but that’s peripheral stuff. It’s missing the big glaring elephant in the room. Why are we allowing yourself to be treated in this way? Repeatedly? And then spend hours and hours of time thinking about the idiots? The denial runs so deep we don’t even know we’re doing it.
Bingo.
I agree with you about boundaries, but sometimes in
asserting boundaries it has the same affect on an AC as standing up
to a school bully, i.e you’re inadvertently showing them how to get
a rise out of you. When my AC (no. 3) well and truly crossed the
boundary on ‘date’ 6 (turns out they weren’t dates – I ‘found’
myself in a FB situation. Basically I feel I was groomed to be his
FB) I was so taken aback he couldn’t miss something was wrong. My
heart was pounding and I was shaking – my whole body was physically
telling me something was seriously wrong. One of my problems is I
doubt myself, and for years i’ve been told by various people
(mainly family) that i’m oversensitive, I worry too much, I read
too much into stuff, take stuff the wrong way etc. (I don’t I
realise – it’s that I have a very powerful sense of internal
boundaries and intuition. It’s a strength). So whenever something
bothers me I immediately negate it myself by saying to myself
‘you’re probably just being oversensitive.’ So this AC had crossed
the line before, but even though I felt that, I massaged the truth
and thought it was just me being me. Anyway, this day there was no
getting away from it, I was so upset and disrespected I felt
physically ill. I told him how hurtful it was and how I felt and he
even said “at least now we know where the boundaries are” and that
it’d “tested the water” (!!!)…then probably about 2 hours later,
he basically hit on exactly the same subject matter that’d upset me
but about 10x worse. he didn’t get a rise out of me – that’s what
he was trying to do. That was the last day I saw him. So, I did
assert my boundaries but some of these men don’t work like normal
people. Maybe it takes a few attempts to define boundaries but I
wasn’t about to stick around and wait for more opportunities to
arise so I can practice my boundary setting. Just saying that my
AC, and I suspect others, are so perverse that when you stand up
for yourself, to them it’s like giving them ammunition. So don’t
beat yourself up if you felt you didn’t defend yourself enough –
often, with certain types of people it’s no use. You’re damned if
you do and damned if you don’t. The only way to deal with them is
to get away and stay NC. Meanwhile i’m guilty of no. 8. I think
that’s what got me involved with my AC. Obviously that’s messed up
of me, cannot justify it. He grew on me, but I think my whole
involvement with him was ego driven, which is funny since all he
did was inflict a lot of ego pain, pain I don’t really know how to
deal with to be honest (3 months no contact! don’t miss him at all,
just finding it hard to deal with the hurt and the many complexes
he has kindly given me).
Powerful post!
hi poster from before
I want to thank you for your post.
I mentioned below how I have come to this similar explanation however yours explains it perfectly.
This illustration you shared is where my anger has stemmed from towards him. I do appreciate this blog and I know it is isn’t about blaming us either but at the same time we can’t always be a step ahead on someone’s behaviour because their behaviour takes time to figure out and we are confused and don’t always know what is happening to us. We are not manipulators ourselves and what you explained above is not something any of us would do so how are we suppose to know what they are doing until time has past and we get to see the evidence through their behaviour later.
Keeping the feelings journal that was mentioned in a post before is a really good suggestion and a great tool to help towards keeping a step ahead but still time has to past in some cases to see if we are right or just paranoid.
I am a strong, smart women who has very good boundaries but I do lack belief in myself in certain areas that I haven’t developed strong convictions for. Due to never having a healthy, constructive relationship I haven’t learned to trust myself yet on the topic of love. Unfortunately I am still learning about love through negative lessons and there is a learning curve to all of this.
I know that Natalie is teaching us to not settle on being a victim and I don’t see myself as one and I don’t want to act like one. I too need a break and want acknowledgement that these guy’s behaviour is manipulative and it is not always our fault for staying. We all deserve the credit of forgiving ourselves that we took whatever time it took to learn our lessons and therefore we stayed as long as we needed.
Nat is just teaching us so we won’t stay as long next time. I think it is ourselves that we need to forgive and give ourselves the break. It is a goal to work on anyways.
With life’s lessons if you haven’t experienced something before or heard of it before it is hard to know it is happening to you and that you need to get out. Being on this blog and learning new situations helps all of us learn new things. Because Nat is getting posts all over the world and learning of all kinds of situatuations she is able to share more experiences with us and so it can help us for later incidences to avoid and has helped us with our past so far.
However we all deserve to forgive ourselves for being sucked in but right now some of the anger towards them has to be worked through.
Hi MH, I think it’s important to note that this isn’t Back To The Future and none of us are Mystic Meg’s. You can’t change a relationship that has already passed but you can learn to recognise things in yourself or in others that indicate that all is not well and that you need to back off, yellow light, or abort mission, red light.
It is unclear in your comment who exactly you need a break from? Who do you need credit from? Who do you need acknowledgement from? Me? Other posters? Family? Friends? Colleagues? The world?
As you’ve already said, that’s something that comes from you. Nobody is saying that their behaviour isn’t manipulative or controlling, that’s why there is an entire section on this site dedicated to dangerous relationships as well as countless other sites and books. Validate you. Anger is valid. Work through that. If take the road of it’s everyone else’s fault or that we’re helpless victims, it suggests that we cannot do anything at all to help ourselves. Quite the contrary. We can see their behaviour, we can be angry, we can do any number of things, but in there make sure you’re taking care of you and doing anything you can to help wisen you up and protect you should you ever find yourself around someone like this again.
Thanks for sharing. I must admit that I approved your comment by accident while half asleep and even though it’s not on topic, I think what you’re sharing is certainly very valuable. As you’ve already pointed out, I don’t believe it is someone’s ‘fault’. I have been involved with some AC’s and I have people close to me who have, some at the very extreme end of the radar. For me personally, I’ve done a lot of the things you have, but I actually recognised that the behaviour was inappropriate because of the ‘history’ of growing up, but I thought I could do things differently or that I deserved it. I wanted to be the exception. But I had my limits. When an ex got physically aggressive, despite the mind effing number he did on me in the weeks afterwards, there was no way back. For whatever reasons, we can end up in situations that are dangerous. I’ve seen it, I’ve been it, I continue to see it. For some it is that prisoner, almost Stockholm syndrome type situation and for others, they are participating although it doesn’t absolve the other persons very poor behaviour. Whatever it is, for a lot of people, they can and will learn from the experience. It’s also important to point out that even in a non AC relationship with an emotionally unavailable person, control, as in trying to control the pace and temperature of the relationship and hold onto the other person’s interest is a central theme.
My aim with writing Baggage Reclaim is empowerment. All the various things that happened to me and some have been extremely painful, I spent my time focused on it being everyone else’s fault. I was still unhappy, nothing changed. For me, saying it’s someone’s fault didn’t make me feel any better or even change my behaviour for next time. I didn’t accept ‘fault’ for what happened as it’s not my fault someone did what they did, but I put myself in charge of my own life and have learned to remove the opportunity or minimise it for me to ever find myself in those situations again. I have someone in my life that behaves in much the way you describe – they no longer have power or opportunity.
Hi Natalie, I need a break from blaming myself. Sorry for
the confusion. I was trying to point out to the poster but
obviously didn’t do a good job that it is ourselves that is giving
ourselves the hard time nobody else. I think I was half asleep when
posting and didn’t make myself clear. That is why I said you are
just trying to help us from staying longer the next time. I thought
the poster was saying that people on here are blaming us and I was
trying to say no it is in how we interpret it.
Hi Natalie,
Thanks for approving and responding to my off-topic post. I’ll try to bring it back around by saying I’m still scared of whatever unconscious beliefs keep me putting myself in this situation. I thought I had it figured out.
1. I believed I would not be involved with anyone controlling ever again; I believed that ACs and EUMs were off the list. I believed I wouldn’t give them the time of day. Now I believe I may end up giving one the time of day, I may even end up involved with one, but that I will get out immediately and that I will only stay involved with a good person. 2. I kind of think I still believe people I find physically attractive will secretly find me disgusting. How do I change this one? 3. Nope, nope, nope. 4. All dates have the potential to turn into a relationship: a lot of them have the potential to turn into a poopy one; I take about 2-4 dates to feel as though I’ve given someone a shot (unless they creep me out on day 1). 5. I think I would have said no to this one. Like, if they flat out give me the cold shoulder or don’t ask for my number, I wouldn’t push it. But after reading this site and some recent post-AC experiences, I’d say I get sucked in by the kind of guy who makes me feel like I’m engaged because I do the ‘good listener’ thing. I’m not getting any of HIS interest, but he’s happy to engage my attention, or flatter me, which feels like I’m getting attention (at first). Then I keep waiting for him to reciprocate and get interested in hearing my stories. And then I keep waiting. 6. I believe you can help what attractions you act on. I believe what one is attracted to can change – for the better! 7. Nope. 8 and 9. Again, would have said nope to these. 8 – I LIKE to learn that someone is interested, but I don’t string things out once I know I’m not interested … at least I don’t think I do … hmm. And 9 – I have SO felt I have to work harder, but I’ve never thought of it as working harder to get their interest, but “work harder to explain why your behaviour bothers me and why I am such a sensitive soul and can they please stop saying/doing that because – I know, I know – I’m super sensitive and have these silly needs that are totally unreasonable so I’ll just work to not be so sensitive and work to help you see that I really am strong even though asking for your tenderness proves I’m needy and if you just see I’m strong you’ll stop treating me like I’m annoying you with my need to be treated with care and love …”. Hmm. I guess I do. I thought I was working hard to overcome the childishness that deserved the harsh treatment. But harsh treatment is disinterest/control. I would totally start working to prove I wasn’t a demanding kid. Holy.
BTW, Natalie, I also didn’t fully realize that when you use the word dangerous, you do mean it as lying on the continuum of behaviour that on the far end means violence/criminality. Until now, when I read these posts, I thought “you could miss a deadline at work because you’re obsessing about your AC” or “your ego is going to be bruised if you continue” was the level of danger I thought you were referring to. I will go back and read your posts with a deeper sense that you understand what I’ve been through.
Thanks.
Dear NML, Very timing article you have written. I need your
input in my situation or else I will seriously need tons of
therapy. I was (he just broke up with me today) In what I call the
most healthy, understanding, sane relationship I have ever been in
after the AC. He is actually a great guy, we had the same morals,
values and goals. We even went apartment hunting over the weekend
because we were planning on moving in together. His family is
unbelievable great. He said he would like to move in together
because he felt very happy with me. He said he wanted to get
married and have children etc, etc. So much, to make it short, he
felt I was a very good match for him and I felt like he was for me
too. I felt like I had finally found Mr. available and Mr. right
all at once!!All this happened over the course of 5 months.
Well..No so fast. He just told me today he felt that he really
liked me, that he had learned so much from me, that he still wants
to be friends with me because he appreciates my friendship, that he
will still like to get together this weekend, but he felt there
were some differences in how we think on raising children, that he
felt “pressured” and “overwhelmed” by all of this and asked me if I
was upset that if I wanted to meet up with him and talk about it he
would love to do it with no problem. I was confused as you can
imagine but I calmly said: “I am not upset about this, I can
understand the feeling of pressure but I hope you understand that I
was not pressuring you into these things, these were things planned
by you”. He said he agreed but he just felt overwhelmed. So I said,
“I think out of respect I would like to hold on to the friendship
until we have moved on. I feel that if you don;t want anything to
do with me it is best to not keep in touch for a while,” SO he said
he understood. NML, I have followed your advice on ” Don’t focus on
the physical chemestry but go deeper and beyond to find out if you
are actually compatible with the guy”. Which I did this time. I
have to admit I don’t even feel broken hearted this time around
because I was well aware of not letting myself go inot the
relationship and I feel I have my feets well planted on the ground.
I focused a LOT on the way he treated me with friends, family etc,
following up on plans, moral values etc. And everything was
perfect. So you can imagine how confused I feel at this moment to
see all the plans crashing down all of the sudden all at once. I am
trying somehow to make sense out of this and I believe this may be
a “coldfeet” case, he felt pressured from his own commitment to me?
And even that statement doesn’t make any sense. I am okay for now,
I am not crying or upset like I used to get in my previous
relationship when they didn’t work out. I am just confused and
trying to make some sense out of this. I feel I was finally doing
something right and probably I wasn’t? Can you help me decipher
this situation? Is there anything I should be doing different
besides what I have done? Your input is greatly
appreciated.
Backagain, your guy has cold feet. I certainly wouldn’t even *begin* to try to absorb the blame for the fact that he is having a major wobble. He is an equal participant to what has been taking place and has in actual fact been driving the discussions. The cold feet has arisen because you are both now doing things that seek to make the discussions of the future a reality. What I would do is hold fire for now. Don’t push and let him calm down. When you are both ready, sit down and have a cards on the table conversation so you can figure out whether this is a difference in values and if so whether it’s a dealbreaker. The fact that you don’t have any children at present and that you haven’t exactly had an extensive discussion about it means he’s being a bit quick out the gate. If there are great differences, it’s one thing, but if they’re not, you can both find a solution you can live with. However children is the ‘cover’ issue not the main issue which is that he is panicked about the commitment. In time you will find out if this is a wobble or a habit. If it’s a wobble and it turns out that he’s not ready, it’s up to you to decide if you want to give it a few more months. Just be careful of having your expectations managed down.
NML I so appreciate your input. Thank you so much for taking the time and letting me feel that I am not going crazy.
Its funny when you said, “if there is a big difference its one thing, but if there is not you still can work on it”. Because the “big difference” he saw in how we would raise our children was the result of a discussion about what language our children would speak. I am a bilingual person he is not, and so he even decided to learn my second language, but when he realized how difficult it is to learn another language he “gave up” on the idea that he wanted to be around a bilingual mother making his children bilingual as well and him not being able to understand. Which to me this will a laughable reason to brake up with someone.
Another “big difference” he saw while apartment hunting is that our jobs would be at least half an hour drive further from our current drive. Meaning driving commute to work for each would take us now roughly 40 minutes to an hour. Still not such big of a deal.
I admit, these little things were stressing us out but I dont consider these things to be really big differences much less reasons to brake up with someone for good.
As you wisely said, these are just cover up for something else. I still dont know exactly what is it but I’ll probably find out soon when he wakes up from what he just did.
However, I made a vow that I would not be hanging around a man to see if he really wants me. Whatever the reasons might be I am gonna start moving on; althoug I feel this is ridiculous and that I never imagined this would come from the nice guy who is actually a 36 years old man. Even his own family was happy he finally found someone to settle down with. *sigh*
Thank you so much NML.
Much love.
I like the quiz format. And I REALLY like the content of
this post. Your analysis seems right on to me. Yet I answered 5 of
them as “agree”. . I am going on a date Friday night. I am going to
print this out and read it before and after. “During” would be a
bit much. Though I suppose I could go powder my nose mid-date
.
Thanks for the giggle David!
Natalie, I just started online dating and I too have had my
issues against it. I filled out a personality test and it matches
you that way. I thought this is a good way to meet someone based on
core values rather than how I use to meet someone. I am having
argumentive talks with myself and I can see the old pattern in me
and after doing this test and looking at your answers afterwards I
am working this out. 1. I believe that there are certain types of
people I could not be involved with. Me 1. I answered this
correctly but I have been struggling with this issue because the
last guy I was involved with who was emotionally unavailable had
the ideal body that I like a man to have. Before reading this I
have been arguing with myself and reminding myself how he would
only hear half the conversation because unless we are talking about
him he loses interest. I have had to remind myself that getting to
know the person is more important than what someone looks like. It
is tough because my friends have always been worse about this than
me and they keep arguing these points for themselves lately which
keeps it in my head unfortunately. I am doing what you said living
the uncomfortable unfamiliar because living the uncomfortable
familiar has led to relationship failure over and over. 2. If
someone is physically attractive and shares some of my interests,
that makes us compatible. Me 2. I answered no to this as well. I
have learned this from you and wondered my whole life why I was
always with immoral men. I too thought I had bad luck. I realize
that I don’t think the greatest about myself so I feel that I have
to settle because I am not going to able to be as choosy as I like.
I also realized a pattern with me is I never liked the guys in the
beginning they liked me and then I get interested in them and we
have a relationship. This is the biggest reason I keep dwelling on
the last guy that was my FWB because I am mad that a guy with his
body couldn’t like me enough to convince me into a relationship
like all the rest. He doesn’t have the perfect body but it was the
exact body I have always wanted in a long term boyfriend. I know
this is wrong thinking and I am trying to conquer it since I found
this site. I have viewed things this way for years and so I am
making progress but I need to make way more. With this guy I am
corresponding with now I am punching this in my head everyday
because I have gone back to my old demented thinking. Why can’t
this guy have the body my last had, why don’t I deserve what I
want? Then I remind myself how this guy mentions he is good
listener and his emails represent that so far. Already if I was
corresponding with the last guy he would have most of it mixed up
because he doesn’t pay attention to the person. I asked myself what
is more important someone hearing me or not? 5. If someone doesn’t
reciprocate my interest, I feel more interested and more curious.
Me 5: This number 5 is a sore spot for me because until you wrote
about someone over estimating their interest in you, this theory
never entered my mind. I assumed that all the effort, work,
interest my FWB guy was doing was legit. I bought into the theories
most women tell each other about how he is giving her more time
because with you it is too intimate and real and they have a
surface relationship so he can spend more time with her or that is
why he made her his girlfriend. I have also had a tough time with
him not wanting a relationship with me because of how he put me on
a pedestal for many things. I can’t handle that none of this was
real for him because when I say things to people I mean them so I
don’t understand smooth talkers. I think because we never had a
full blown relationship it didn’t play out so I didn’t learn if we
would fail as a couple or not. I think because of this reason I
wanted to know if him and his current girlfriend are having the
problems I figured I would have with him. That way I would know I
was right to stay away but as it stands I remain curious if we
could have worked or not. On another note the bright side is, a guy
at work I was recently interested in didn’t show me interest back,
so I took your comments on this matter to heart and backed off.
Even though my cousin argued with me to give it time, I told her I
have lost interest, it is done. As well I have had several guys
online notice me and a few of them I asked for a picture and I
didn’t receive any reply in three days so I clicked not interested.
My cousin said give it more time, I told her I didn’t ask for her
advice nor are my decisions up for discussion there what I am going
to do and if she decides to online date or date she can choose her
time limit for her men but mine is my business. 6. I believe that
you can’t help who you are attracted to. Me 6. I am just
experiencing what you have been trying to say all this time on this
topic. I knew in theory what you meant but was not able to relate
until now. In the summer I walked away from Mr EU because I knew he
was emotionally unhealthy for me. I didn’t know all the details
then that I learned from this blog now, but I knew I had to get
away. I have always believed that because it takes me forever to
get comfortable with a guy that I have to settle for certain guys
that peak my interest over time because it will take forever for me
to let one in again or find a new one. There have been a lot of
guys I have turned down too, so it is not very many guys I have
done this with and I stay in relationships for awhile. This theory
makes no sense because everyone I told my story to about my last
EUM said he is too much work, get rid of him, so obviously I like
uncomfortable familiar work but I don’t like uncomfortable
unfamiliar work. It is true because now that I am putting myself
out there again I am feeling very uncomfortable unfamiliar. However
with this blog at my side I am pushing myself forward and going for
it. 7. I like and use dating sites because it feels good to have
people interested in me. Me 7. I have a friend who I feel is using
dating sites for this purpose. I do see a few potential red flags
in my own behaviour that I am trying to caution in myself. I am
only corresponding on email right now because I want to take my
time and I don’t want to invest too much of it if isn’t meant to
be. That being said we usually send each other one email a day
sharing information about ourselves in order to get to know one
another. I look forward to these emails and this is giving me
entertainment lately. I know if it stops or he becomes not
interested or I lose interest I am going to go back to being
disappointed with life. My life for the last 6 months hasn’t been
that much fun except the times I spend with my friends, family and
the quality time I have enjoyed with myself. However, I have spent
the rest of the time grieving over my last guy. The other behaviour
in me is comparing him to the last guy unfavorably in the looks
department. I am unfortunately asking myself why do I have to
choose personality over looks can’t I have both. Don’t worry I want
to kick my own butt for this line of thinking. I actually do give
myself heck and try to think in more healthy terms on this matter.
I tell myself I am not perfect who am I to focus on looks I don’t
want someone passing me by. I am not passing this person by I am
engaging but I am fearing that he will look worse in person and I
will be disappointed, trust me I need a swift kick I know. I have
friends that are kicking my arse along with myself. I am a seesaw
one minute I say stop it that is negative and the next I say look
at society everyone is focused on looks. 8. Sometimes, even though
I’m not really interested in someone, I need to know that they’re
interested in me. Me 8. I have never gotten the guys I liked, just
the certain guys that like me. They pursue me and eventually I get
interested in them and that’s when they started back peddling even
the last guy before the relationship began. Even though with the
last one I wasn’t wanting a relationship I think I was expecting it
would go there later like the rest and I would be interested
because he would win me over. He has won me over time for other
things why not one more. It is all dysfunctional thinking and I
know better now but I jump back into the corrupted thinking because
I am the one alone and I wanted a boyfriend and he never wanted a
relationship again and now he has a girlfriend. Now that I am
coming to terms with the fact that I have simply entered
relationships because they won me over with their fake interest, I
can’t fathom why he displayed so much interest but only liked me as
a friend. I need to know he is interested or I want him to be so I
can feel validated. What I have learned from past relationships is
that this pattern is behind my relationship failures so it is a
good thing that he didn’t convince me to have a relationship
because if I dumped him as friend than I would have had to dump him
as a boyfriend and there would have went another failed
relationship to the list. 9. If someone isn’t interested in me, I
feel I have to work harder to make them interested in me by proving
myself to them. ME 9. I find that I get confused how they feel
about me because all of my life I have gotten involved with EUM’s
and Ass clowns. They have a tendency to act very interested and
like I mentioned above I don’t act more interested in a person than
I am so I don’t get that someone would. This site is the first time
I have heard of over emphasizing interest, in my world you are or
you are not and you don’t pretend. With that, I got angry that my
EUM acted so invested and now I have learned that everything he did
was what suited him and things were not what they seemed. I have
more of a problem of dwelling on why they put all that effort in
but nothing was going to come of it than I feel I had to prove
myself. In the past I use to think that and with my last
relationship I did that but with the last guy I didn’t. I was
myself with the last guy and I think I was expecting to be rewarded
with him convincing me into a relationship because that is how I
have always entered a relationship. I didn’t realize or see how I
entered relationships before until I examined it after finding this
site. I now see where my dysfunctional thinking stemmed from. I
kept entering relationships simply with guys liking me and their
interest in me or pretend interest may have been the catalyst to my
interest in them rather than choosing someone with common values. I
guess I have been participating in false relationships because I
was the only one who became interested but theirs was false simply
to get me interested so they could get what they want from
me.
MH, there was a lot of very, very interesting points in here but what I am supremely impressed with you about is setting boundaries with your cousin who is pushing the same old dodgy stuff around that lots of other women do, backing off when that guy wasn’t interested, and recognising, even when you weren’t 100% sure why, that you had to get out of a situation.
Some people bait and switch. They pursue you because they know you’re not interested which makes them feel that they desire you more, you get reeled in by the interest, pursuit, and desire, you feel flattered and then now that you’re on side, they back off. Some people just like the chase. If you stick around, you become the pursuer.
I was very much like you. Convinced into a relationship and then ‘bam!’, Nightmare on Elm Street. Now I know that I don’t need to be convinced into being interested and also that it’ a red flag when we only get into relationships because someone else is interested in us, not because you both are.
Nat, I love that bait and switch theory that makes so much
sense, wow. Thanks so much for the feedback. Yes I will have to
look at that now as a definate red flag. When they win you and
their interest fades it is time to walk away too.
MH
It seems to me that you you believe one thing and do another in your relationships. It’s as if you have no control and get swept along by mysterious forces. You know looks aren’t important yet you get hooked on his having the right kind of body. You believe there’s no point pursuing someone who isn’t interested, yet you wanted a relationship with a FWB who wasn’t interested. You have the intelligence to rationalise these oppositions but the bottom line is that your actions aren’t helping you. I’m not aiming this particularly at you, I’ve been there myself and I see it in countless posts here, not only yours (or mine!).
I think – and this is just my opinion based on my own experience which is similar to yours – that something major within you is stopping you from living an authentic life in line with your values. I’m going to stick my neck out and say that your boundaries are not as strong as you believe. Especially in relationships with men. And it’s low self-esteem which pushes us into unsatifactory relationships. It can’t be anything else. It’s not as if we live in a country where women are oppressed and forced into marriages, we do have choices and something is informing those choices. We need to know what that something is. Otherwise we get stuck analysing and analysing without ever getting to the core issue. I know, I spent over 20 years doing it!
Grace, You mentioned valid points. I think it goes back to
I thought these corrupted ways for so many years and now that I
have found this blog I have change my thinking in a lot of ways,
but like with any change it is two steps forward one step back. My
boundaries are pretty strong but I have to say I haven’t had a
healthy relationship yet so it is hard to know at times what
behaviours are dysfunctional until time has past and I see the
evidence. I have also not been in a relationship for years because
I recognized I wouldn’t be a good candidate for a healthy one at
the time so it is better to avoid. Now I am wanting to and I am
working on being healthy enough. I saw recent red flags in myself
that I am working through so that I don’t enter another unhealthy
relationship, since I am putting myself out there again. Alot of my
summaries or theories that I wrote about have only come to
realization now. So I wasn’t wanting a relationship from my FWB at
the time. I am analyzing things now and speculating that my
subconscious mind must have had an another agenda back then as to
why I stayed. I am talking mostly of the past and putting things in
perspective with new eyes that I have developed from finding this
blog. Therefore I am applying new theories I know now but didn’t
know then. So I hear you when you say I sound like I think one way
and do another but really I was only thinking one way at the time
or I wasn’t even thinking just doing like you say. Because I am
getting out there again I am replaying old tapes in my head and
trying to conquer them with the new information I have learned
here. However, I am having wars with myself because my old faulty
thinking kicks in. You unfortunately got to witness my wars that I
am trying to settle. That is why my post mentions self arguing. I
can also see the other confusing thing that you are seeing. Because
we are growing on this site, and we are sharing new beliefs and our
old beliefs kick in and we share those too. It looks like you, me
and the posters are jumping all over the place. These posts Natalie
presents can bring us back to the past, make us think about the
future and smarten us up in the present. Too much is going on but
it is all good and part of the process because I have come along
way in ways I have never imagined. Nat taught me so many patterns I
was doing unconsciously before. My posts may seem confusing,
however what is happening is I am trying on new behaviours and
seeing if they work for me and reporting them when a posts matches
my current, past or what I hope to be a future experience. It’s as
if you have no control and get swept along by mysterious forces. I
think this explanation of yours illustrates exactly what I have
learned I was doing in my past relationships and that is what I was
saying I have to be careful of not doing again. I haven’t had a
official relationship since my 20’s I am now in my late 30’s. I
have to learn to live more consciously and I don’t know yet how far
I have come because I haven’t entered a relationship yet. My
examples are the few encounters of losing interest in a guy who
didn’t seem interested and walking away from the last guy who wasnt
making me feel good about myself. I have to say from where I was at
in my 20’s this is a huge improvement. Now that I found this blog
with no man in my life I have to now try this new information and
see where I am at with future men. To summarize to now I have not
been wasting time on guys thanks to this blog. Yes I walked away
from the last guy physically and from time to time I have chosen to
take a call from him here or there. For me that has been part of
the progress because I have learn certain things that have helped
me along my journey. What I was sharing yesterday, was what
yesterdays post provoked in my mind what I have been going through
with new guys and how I look at my past situations or
relationships. I would have to agree with you that my patterns that
you listed are things I did and are capable of doing as far as not
always listening to my gut. For me and it is just my opinion I
think I have good boundaries but yes I am weak at times with
listening to myself. This is something though that I have been
practicing hard since I have found this blog. Sometimes I go back
on things with myself because I think I am being too hasty. I think
– and this is just my opinion based on my own experience which is
similar to yours – that something major within you is stopping you
from living an authentic life in line with your values. I think my
problem is low self esteem, not always listening to myself and
going back on my own beliefs. Also sometimes I don’t realize that I
am settling probably because of my history. Sometimes unhealthy is
all we know and when they display it, it is familiar and we don’t
think anything of it. I do appreciate you pointing all these things
out because it does make me think. As well it helps me do check ups
when I am answering you back. It also helps me know how far I have
come. I love to examine my own behaviour so thanks for letting me
know what you see. I am also going to look into it because I know I
have not conquered everything and I still need to grow. Yes when I
was with the last guy, I went against my own values because I am
against FWB. Afterwards a guy I met was offering me a FWB and I
declined so I knew that I walked away from the previous guy because
of it and didn’ t take another guy up on the offer so I knew I am
back in line with my values again on that matter. As far as the
looks issue that is a huge issue that I am working through and it
isn’t going to go away over night but I keep plugging through. I
needed to post on it so I could get new perspectives. My boundaries
are better now then they were but I have had pretty decent
boundaries but I do lose my way at times. I will still work on
improving them even more. They are always a work in progress they
never get perfected.
MH I hear you and I do understand where you are coming
from. Ten months ago I was contemplating an affair with a MM that
pushed me into depression and anxiety. We are all in the same boat
but at least we’re heading for the life rafts with Captain Natalie
pointing the way!
Grace, I like that heading for the rafts with Capt Natalie
heading the way. well said
Sorry MH, I knew there was something I wanted to ask you: what does someone having the ideal body that you have in mind tell you about them? How will it benefit your relationship? Would you be prepared to overlook other things about them if they had this body? What assumptions do you make about them? Aren’t there other things you wanted in a long term boyfriend that take a greater precedence?
Natalie, What does someone having the ideal body that you
have in mind tell you about them? I don’t know how to answer this
or I don’t have an answer because I simply was very attracted to
his package and I enjoyed looking at his body. It excited me to
look at him. I love touching his arms and his abs. That simply gave
me pleasure. How will it benefit your relationship? The only thing
it benefits is my attraction to him physically. I have settled
before with a guy who’s body I didn’t like. Then I was unhappy
because I had a hard time being attracted to him. I never was into
his looks and it made intimacy difficult. I know it has to be more
than his body that attracts me. I was attracted to other things
with the last guy besides his body. They were all secondary
characteristics and not primary and that is why I had to walk away.
I am definately looking for primary now and yes so far I am finding
that in a different package. Would you be prepared to overlook
other things about them if they had this body? Been there, done
that, and I am not going to to do it again. The body has to be the
bonus to the great personality. The body cannot make up for red
flag character defects. I did walk away from the last guy so I was
willing to give it up. By no means does he have a perfect body and
many women would probably not think any thing of the kind of body I
like. He even got less toned and a bit flabby and I still liked it,
it did look better before it got this way but oh well. What
assumptions do you make about them? I don’ t really make
assumptions about them for having a nice body I simply think it is
sexy because it is what I am attracted to. Aren’t there other
things you wanted in a long term boyfriend that take a greater
precedence? The reason I walked away from the last guy was because
we didn’t have compatible core values, therefore that does take
precedence over a sexy body. I have never picked a boyfriend for
his looks or his body. I have had boyfriends in the past with nice
bodies but it didn’t come with a great moraled person so I did
leave then too. I know I am up against some shallow, irrational
ways of thinking. This is what I am stuck on, why can’t I have
both. Most people wouldn’t see this guy as sexy the way I do
because it isn’t some muscle bound man god that I am into. I know
this because my friends would mentioned to me that my guy didn’t
look like their friend who was 511 and average built then their
jaws would drop when I would tell them he is six feet and has abs
and they must be blind. They would say I thought he was 5’7, really
he has abs, he doesn’t have a good looking face. I said whatever
thats just your opinion. It use to be mine too but his facial looks
grew on me after spending time with him. I liked the body right
from the beginning. I know I need therapy. I just had a though,t
many of my friends made fun of my choices of boyfriends saying that
I always pick skinny guys, maybe this one got them off my back and
I enjoyed the peace of not being made fun of . I have shallow
friends and none of their boyfriends have been anything to look at
but I said personality is more important. Most of them haven’t even
had a great personality. I want people to like me for me so I can’t
go for a guy based on his body I know, it is just tough. Thanks
again Nat for getting me to think. You have helped me so much with
insight, patterns and working towards believing in myself and love.
I guess I have a huge hurtle to work through with this body
issue.
Whenever I come to your blog I always find a topic which personally touches everyone’s feeling & mentality, plus you also suggest the solution which is bonus point of your blog. Keep it up… 🙂
I really enjoyed reading this article….and it makes so
much sense. When reading your post, its like light bulbs come on in
my head. It all helps me to understand why I, as a single woman,
have done some of the things I have to gain the interest and
attention from a man. My reflection of this article would be that
seeking interest for a disinterested party, in my view, was a two
way street, at first. When you stated “If someone isn’t interested
in me, I feel I have to work harder to make them interested in me
by proving myself to them,” my light bulb moment revealed to me the
misconception I have had in mind. I felt as though I was confident
in myself and had a good thing going….so what man wouldn’t be
interested, (well one man in particular). So there was a lot of
time and energy spent trying to prove to him that I was the better
woman or the right woman for him. So I found myself doing little
things to prove it. But now in actuality it was the opposite…I
lacked the self confidence that I thought I had. Because why did I
need to spend so much time trying to prove myself to him or anyone
else. I came to the realization, that I am who I am… and as for a
man…you can see it or not. Because, for those that pass my
qualities by don’t have an appreciation for what those qualities
are. Its like a fine piece of art work….in the mind of some, who
do not appreciate fine art, it may appear to look like nothing to
them. However, for those who can embrace its beauty and uniqueness
have truly found their match. I would rather be alone and know my
worth, than to have someone who will not appreciate the beauty of
it.
This post resonates with me so strongly, as does so much of
the content on this site. Thank you. It has come at such a perfect
time for me, having already escaped a very difficult and painful
relationship with a UEM and now I think I have just had a near-miss
with another one! He has backed off and the urge to keep pushing by
contacting him etc is overwhelming – but I have managed to stop
myself from doing this. It is clear to me that he would be
interested in a ‘physical relationship’ but nothing more. Thank you
for helping me to realise I am worth more, I deserve better and the
most important relationship is the one I have with ME! Thank you
x
Smiles……………..This is why this is one of My
favourite sites. Good sound well written content. I smiles when I
read this. It is something I did for My self about 15 years ago.
And it was deeply reviling. If I may make a suggestion. If You are
going to truly put all yourself if you like on “the table.” Do it
with complete honesty………..Now I am a very smart and aware
Man. But I realised that when I was getting out everything about
Myself. My own Intelligence was “rationalising” My own blind spots.
In other words I was making “excuses” for Myself because I could
make “reasons” why I did this or “why” things where like that. I
got to understand I was dealing with an aspect of Myself that was
not wanting to deal with the real reality of My
Life……………My own ego. Because in doing this kind of
exercise Natalie has mentioned here and to do it really well. Means
a serious and deep form of self-analyses. And un-less you know how
to fully practice “self-reflection” We can make up excuses and
reasons why our lives are the way they are. Even if our
“intentions” are not that way. Our sub-concious Minds have it’s
programs running which our concious Mind can be completely unaware
of. In other words we are our own self-saboteur without the
sabotaging efforts of others. My suggestion is that if you are
really serious about changing Your life go and work with a
“professional.” One YOU can work with and is there for YOUR Growth.
This post on the surface appears relatively simple and that is why
it is so effective. Because if You really sit down and answer those
questions honestly. they will make you go deep. And WRITE THEM
DOWN, just don’t think about them. Although Natalie has focused her
questions on relationships. Which are a Huge part of our lives. It
goes further than that, It is also about the relationship with have
with all of Life and ourselves. It would be one of the best
“Investments” you can give Yourself. 10 out of 10 Natalie it’s a
pity more did not write and share about the real stuff instead of
just marketing hype. Quality and Qualities counts………… Till
the next time lovely Lady Amour A F If you want to change from sex
towards love, try to understand your sexuality. Watch it, watch the
mechanicalness of it. See the futility, see the whole absurdity of
it — it is not leading you anywhere. Become a little more refined,
become a little more subtle. Look not for the body, but somebody’s
being. Watch, explore. Sooner or later you will find somebody who
fits with you. Ordinarily we think sex makes people loving — sex
can never make people loving. In fact, it is sexuality that
prevents love from growing — because it is the same energy that has
to become love. It is being destroyed in sex. To become love, the
same energy has to move to the heart centre. A boyfriend or a
girlfriend may be fun, but cannot become a door to the deepest that
is hidden in each and everyone. With a girlfriend you can be
sexually related, but love cannot grow. Love needs deep roots.
Sexuality is possible on the surface, but sexuality is just animal,
biological. It can be beautiful if it is part of a deeper love, but
if it is not part of a deeper love it is the most ugly thing
possible; the ugliest, because then there is no communion — you
simply touch each other and separate. Only bodies meet, but not you
— not I, not thou. This has happened in all relationships. Love is
born in sexuality but sexuality is not love. The lotus is born in
the mud, but the lotus is not just mud. And if mud remains mud of
course there are bound to be tears on the cheeks. When you are in
sexuality you don’t bother much to whom you are making love — any
body will do. You just need a woman or a man, any body will do. You
just need the other’s body. In love, any body won’t do, anybody’s
body won’t do. You need a person who is in deep love with you, who
has a certain affinity and harmony with you, in whose presence your
heart starts singing, a deep bell starts ringing… in whose presence
you feel a blessing. Then only is it possible for you to make love
to the other person. To make love is possible only if the meeting —
the inner meeting — has happened. Otherwise it is simply impossible
to think, even to imagine that you are making love to a person you
don’t love. “Intimate Communion” Smiles……….The Heart speaks
as well as the analytical mind.
Have been guilty of the whole NINE in the past. Since
reading this blog I have definitely stopped two of them for good —
5 and 9. The rest are alive and well in my heart.
I love reading all the posts, makes me feel good to know
there’s so many women and men who readily share of themselves so we
can all learn. Its comforting to know there’s a place to come to
unburden one’s self without fear. Group…can we have a day where
we only post a quality, a trait or maybe even an accomplishment
about ourself that we’re proud of? I feel that I’ve gotten to know
so many of you that I’m interested in knowing more about you but
not in the context of what brought us all here together. I know
we’re all so much more than what we post; we have lives, families,
friends, jobs, communities and I think it would be nice to know
just something about each other that doesn’t have to do with Jerks,
AC, EUMs, broken hearts, torn apart souls and shattered dreams. I
know that I’m not my story anymore. I sank to my lowest but came
through the fire and I’m not going to keep reliving the past
anymore. Anyway its just a thought. Nat what do you think?
Wow, I must be healing! I’m at the point where I “forget”
to read Natalie’s blog. It still upsets me that it took almost a
year to heal (But Natalies blog helped!!!). The reason I came today
was from her Twitter post. OK: 1. AGREE, however, the fact that I
agree in theory doesn’t mean I won’t ultimately end up getting
involved with “wrong” people. 2. DISAGREE. Shared interests and
physical attractiveness does not equal compatibility. 3. DISAGREE.
4. DISAGREE. I tend to be an extreme. Guys either have one date and
they never want to see me again, or one date and they latch on to
me. I’ve never had, say, “two or three dates” with a guy. It’s
either all or nothing. 5. DEPENDS: If it’s one date only, then
DISAGREE. But if some time has been invested, then AGREE. 6. AGREE.
The saying, “The heart wants what the heart wants….” 7. NO WAY!
(basically “DISAGREE”) 8. I THINK I disagree on this…. 9.
DEPENDS: See #5.
I found this comment on another forum on a different
subject, but it fits what Natalie has said here, and on prior
posts: Never make someone a priority in your life when you are only
an option in theirs. I’m taking this one to heart!
Sooooo, I think I ticked 3/4 “rules” on the list:
1. AGREE: But, I would state criteria such as lack of education or intelligence, ignorance, laziness, negativity (such as complaining about everything), NOT hobbies or star signs. 😉
2. DISAGREE, however, physical attractiveness IS important, as it differentiates a love relationship from a normal friendship. I’m not saying “beauty”, because you could be attracted to someone who is not particularly handsome, and the other way around. But we are not looking for a platonic relationship, no matter how many shared values we have. Hobbies are not a priority, though.
3. DISAGREE. I believe only in attraction at first sight. If it’s lucky or not, we’ll see later on.
4. AGREE. And I’m usually not wrong. Sometimes I’ve seen people (especially women), waiting for ages for things to change, like “he’s not what I need, but maybe, if I wait for some more, maybe…who knows…” And they wait for months, or even years, and things don’t get better. I don’t underestimate intuition. We are intelligent beings!
5. DISAGREE.
6. AGREE. Attraction happens, but what IS a choice is whether or not to get involved with that person, despite red flags. You may still find someone attractive, but keep him at a distance if you find him “dangerous”. At the same time, there are certain attitudes that are a major turn-off, no matter how attractive the person is. And sometimes you can be disappointed in just a matter of days.
7. Completely DISAGREE. I am soooo not interested in online dating! Period! 🙂
8. DISAGREE. On the contrary, if I’m not interested in someone, their interest and attention make me feel quite uncomfortable. It’s been like that since I was a teenager.
9. That’s TRICKY. 😀 Let’s just say that it depends how big my interest in that person really is.
OMG I can’t believe what a stupid, emotional fool I’ m
being right now. As some of you may have read, I’ve recently broken
up with the Brit boyfriend who tried to move here (Sydney) but
didn’t try hard enough, even though he supposedly loves me. I
deserve better than his flip flapping and inability to plan, be a
real partner, etc. Anyway, there’s a friend of mine that I’ve
fancied on and off (and him me) for years and years. We flirt a
lot. We would be a great couple. I have so much respect for him as
a person, etc, etc. Now that I don’t want drama to dominate my
life, I am really imagining being with him. SO, what has happened?
I went to a BBQ last night and had fun with everyone, including
him. But because he left early (his mum was there too and she
wanted to go home) I have spun into a downward spiral of thinking
that no way would he want me anyway because I’m too crazy. Cyclone
Betty, with drama wreaking havoc all over the place. Nothing bad
even happened! I think I’m just being too impatient. But my
imagination is taking over… what if he doesn’t really want to be
with me despite what I (and various people) think? What if I missed
my chance a couple of years ago? What if he doesn’t make an effort
to pursue me? (because i’ve now decided that I’m going to take a
step back from being the chasing fallback girl to EUMs). I know
this sounds so stupid now that I’m writing it. But I just feel like
a big fool. I know I need to just give it time. And just be myself.
But it’s hard. I feel so alone and don’t know if there really is a
positive future for me, relationship wise. There must be a reason
why I only attract people who can only give me a limited
relationship. Meanwhile the ex has just sent me an email, so
romantically giving me a synopsis of his favourite French films
because he knows I would like them and perhaps i should watch
them… and remember how much he loves me. I miss him so much…
but I deserve better than just the fantasy… but the man I think
will be so good for me in reality might not actually want me now. I
just feel like a big loser.
The thing that struck me most about your post? The ex
emailed you. Block all forms of contact otherwise this will have a
negative effect on how you feel about yourself. (as is obviously
happening) I went through a period of being really hard on myself,
it’s normal. I also went through a stage of getting angry at the
ex. That really helped! One persons actions does not define who you
are. YOU define who you are. You don’t need a man to define you. It
doesn’t matter if that guy went home early, it wasn’t because of
you! You’re not a big fool. You’re just hurting and you need to
believe in yourself more. That takes effort. That means getting rid
of all the negative in your life, things that are to your detriment
to be able to change your beliefs about yourself. Hang in there!
🙂
Betty It’s a bit of a leap to go from flirting and fancying
(albeit for years) to believing you’d be a great couple. And then
deciding he won’t want you cos you’re crazy. Those two beliefs are
completely incompatible. You seem to be in panic mode. I would slow
down the crazy (I say that with humour) and concentrate on healing
from your recent breakup. The right guy can only be the right guy
when you are the right girl, ie steady in yourself, happy by
yourself, happy WITH yourself. You need to forget the ex before you
can start a new relationship. Focus on yourself, not the next man
in line. And forget the French films too, I could send you synopses
of beautiful books I’ve read and make you fall in love with me. It
doesn’t mean anything!
Thanks, Ladies. I know I was just having a big freakout becuase I let myself get carried away and impatient about moving on to a new relationship instead of sorting me out first. I’m committed to sorting out my head, my heart, my patterns in behaviour, etc. Thanks.
Just one thing about the ex, though. I know NML (and everyone) writes that texting or email is not an appropriate mode of communication – well, my relationship with him was pretty much established via text! I mean, I met him when I was overseas and then when I came back to Australia he was still travelling around Europe, so text it was.
Now that I’ve broken up with him, he’s back in Europe, so I have just rationalised it in my mind as to why he uses text (and now email, now that I’ve told him I don’t want any more texts).
I guess the more I think about it, the more I realise that it’s just not good enough. And it never has been. I deserve more. But first I need me.
Thanks again. Bx