In How to Lose An Assclown in 90 Days, I explain the 7 Deadly Trappings of Relationships with Assclowns and one of them is our tendency to be too compassionate and couple it with projection:
“I’m going to cut right to the chase and be blunt – men are not children that you need to raise from the ground up. It’s not about taking a man with rocky foundations (or even non-existent) and building your vision of him on top of it and teaching him how to be. I hate to break it to you, but one, if not two people, have already parented the man that is in front of you. Someone else gave birth to him and he has grown up and the end result has been an assclown, or at the very least, a man that behaves like an assclown to you.
Men are not waifs and strays, patients at rehab, or people to feel sorry for because they’re ‘wounded’ and one of the hardest lessons that you need to face is that if you extended even half of the compassion that you extend to these men to yourself, you would already be on the road to being a happier, healthier you and these men would not be a part of your life. You listen to excuses, pathetic stories, lies, and all sorts of verbal diarrhea from these men and then you sit back and think, ‘Ahâ! I should give him another chance. He seems genuinely sorry this time and I know that if I had behaved this way and was given another chance, I would be different, so of course, he will be different’.
This…is bullsh*t.
The trap that women that love assclowns fall into, is that in having ridiculous levels of ‘compassion’ towards these men, you also couple it with the overly simple art of projection. In essence, whatever way you think you would behave if someone were to do what you’re doing for them, you decide it’s what they’ll do. You also have a troublesome habit of being able to recognise on some levels that you have your own issues so you decide that you wouldn’t want someone to be harsh on you for having your issues, so you won’t be harsh on them.
Let me tell you something right now – relationships do not work like this and neither does logic because you and him are not the same person and you’re not even in the same relationship. Aside from the fact that you avoid the reality of his behaviour, you’re the only one with your foot in the relationship and you’re trying to do enough loving for the both of you.
You cannot project how you feel, think, and see things on him. Not only is this co-dependent where you’re avoiding being independent and unhealthily merging the two of you because you place no value in you as an entity, but he has already demonstrated time and time and time again, that he does not feel, think, and see things as you do. If he did, you wouldn’t be reading this!
How you feel does not become how he feels and in its simplest terms this boils down to: Just because you have decided that you love him and want the relationship does not mean that ipso facto, he loves you and wants the relationship too.
In an ideal world, reciprocity in your relationships could leave you reassured that if you treat someone well, they treat you well, but people do not work this way. If they did, the world would be one big happy place.
If you want to be assured of reciprocity, then you need to choose better men to have better relationships with, because choosing an assclown and wondering why he behaves badly, is like knowingly leaving your handbag with a wad of a cash in it in front of a handbag thief and wondering why he’s taken it… You’re focused on the fact that you’re showing him trust and care, and forgetting what’s in front of you – a thief.
In disentangling yourself from your involvement with assclowns, you are going to have to separate how you feel and what you want from what he does because right now, you are ignoring the reality of him and effectively doubling up.
One of the things that happens as you have more and more time away from these men and cold turkey it, is that you recognise that even though you were afraid of being on your own, or feeling what you feel on your own, you were already alone even when you thought they were there. The stark reality will hit that it’s only you that feels this and when it does, this is when you will begin the acceptance that comes with realising that when a man doesn’t want you, you have got to stop wanting him and giving him everything you’ve got, even when he’s not even there to take it! He doesn’t deserve your compassion; he deserves to have the door closed on him. Actually forget closed – make it SLAMMED!
Remember, when you over extend yourself to men that are unworthy of your time and energy, the ’emotional stock’ has to come from somewhere which means you will have to detract from yourself in order to be with him. This, is not love. It’s pain. It’s a subtraction. And if you don’t see the chump assclown for what he is and bail, you will realise that he’s walked away with a chunk of you and left you with a big hole. You’ll wonder who the hell you are. You’ll also start to believe that the only way that you can feel ‘complete’ is by being with him anyway. But…you rapidly discover that it’s a vicious cycle and instead…you need to cut off…and regroup with you and rebuild. In essence, you need to be compassionate to yourself and put you out of your own misery.”
Another wonderful post/excerpt and right on the money!!
Gail
on 02/12/2008 at 7:58 pm
NML – I get this and you hit it on the nailhead….”is that you recognise that even though you were afraid of being on your own, or feeling what you feel on your own, you were already alone even when you thought they were there.”
This is a familiar theme to me and recurring, I am trying to break out of this pattern. Logically, I get it, that’s why I went cold turkey on him with no explanation to him. So why then do I keep internalizing it and replaying the tape over and over in my head, it’s so rediculous.
In my current situation, I was the one that started the NCR and I felt great about it until last week until he im’d me about a life/death situation and I responded back giving him the power/ego boost he needed even though it was in a very impersonal manner and of course and no surprise, he didn’t respond back. This put me into a tailspin, I was fine until then. I think it was a ploy on his part to try to get me to react which I haven’t and am maintaining the NCR. This guy is an assclown, he wasn’t in the relationship and he tripped my trigger last week and I am struggling this week. Not about contacting him but the internal tape recorder is killing me, coulda, shoulda, etc…..Gail
BBP
on 02/12/2008 at 8:04 pm
On the alone thing – when I left my EUM for the first time, which was before I started reading this site, I told him that being with him was worse than being alone because I couldn’t have him and I couldn’t move on. Reading this just nails that feeling all over again – because it was true.
Also, the compassion and projection – I’ve been searching for why I do what I do because I know in my heart I’m a nice person, and I just realized today that I do this compassion/projection thing SO MUCH!! And not just with guys, but with my friends and my family as well. Wow. I really never stopped to think that, hey, we aren’t the same person and they might NOT do what I would do. In fact they don’t do what I do – they just do whatever they want! This is one of the best posts yet. I can’t wait for the book.
FinallyOverIt
on 02/12/2008 at 8:20 pm
Yes, this is also so true for how we relate to friends and family. What I am learning is that if we present ourselves to others in a way that gives them the message that we don’t love or respect ourselves, that is what we will get back in return…..
Lori G
on 02/12/2008 at 8:32 pm
I think the piece which I really had a hard time grasping with my EUM is that he didn’t want me. I’m a good person, I don’t take advantage, etc but for months during this NC period I’ve often felt that there must be something wrong with me for him not to be interested enough. But this post really explains all of it.
He has a problem, it’s not for me to solve, or anything else. He has a lot of acquaintances mostly and there is a reason for this and it’s much more clear today.
The other piece is that he may not be able to ever be anything more than assclown because frankly he is what he is. Whether he can commit to someone else remains to be seen, and if he can how long will it last? None of his crap is any of my business any longer.
Each day I get up and get started in my day, I’m thankful – very thankful for every day. It’s like the fog has lifted and I can see how lucky I am to be here…in this glorious, beautiful day. I believe more and more in myself, in my own abilities, and having the ability to make better, healthier and informed choices for MYSELF.
Gaynor
on 02/12/2008 at 8:59 pm
Lori G,
Good for you!!!!
Astelle
on 02/12/2008 at 9:04 pm
Lori G, like NML said in one of her posts, he was scr**ed up before you met him, while you were with him and after you are gone.
I also used to think that there is something wrong with me, but a friend of mine reminded me that I was well “trained” by my ex husband. 🙂
With NML’s help I even realize now that it started with my ex husband and not this assclown. When I asked my friends they said we told you what he is you just didn’t understand it at that time.
Better late than never. 🙂
Gail, I went cold turkey as well and I hope more of the ladies posting here will choose that route. You can’t mess up anything with doing NOTHING and that is what NC will do for you. There is no need for an explanation because they don’t care about us just about themselves, you won’t have screeming matches, fights or stalking him and feel even worse about the “break up”. Actually when there is no relationship, there is nothing to break up in my book.
He doesn’t sit there and goes, hmm she is doing NC with me, he has no clue, all he knows is that he hasn’t heard from you and he may get in touch if he needs something – it is all about him.
I truly believe, men like this never change, they just move on to the next woman and it will get harder and harder for them (age) to find the next victim.
Gail – You highlight something else which is the theme of tomorrow’s post – contact is contact You can put whatever spin or tone on it but these guy don’t read between the lines of what you do and think, oh well she only gave me a teeny but of contact this time – the assclown just checked in to ensure that you still care enough to respond. Don’t go into a tailspin – push your way out of it, stick to your guns, and don’t make contact, plain and simple. It was a ploy and now that you know it, you can do something next time.
FinallyOverIt – Spot on! We focus very much on being nice and this being reciprocated but we often don’t realise that there are other ways that we behave that *are* reciprocated.
Lori G and BBP, I picked up on something there that exempifies this post so excuse me for highighting 🙂
“I’m a nice person”
“. I’m a good person, I don’t take advantage”
Yes, but unfortunately, being this way does not ensure that you get a nice man, a good man and a good relationship because you are still choosing to be with a man who isn’t good or nice on a consisten basis and who does take advantage.
I am glad you are becoming more positive and seeing him more clearly but more importantly seeing yourself more clearly.
Astelle – Yes, one day they wake up and see a pathetic old assclown in the mirror…and then they go out and look for the next ego stroke and block out the clarity or quickly find the first woman they can marry….
Astelle
on 02/12/2008 at 9:42 pm
NML, he just wanted to make sure that Gail cares enough to respond, that means she will hear form him again?
RES
on 02/12/2008 at 9:46 pm
Damn, if I only knew then what I know now. How much time I wasted.
Astelle – It’s hard to say as some men, once is enough. Others will make contact, see they they get a response, and then go about their business until the next time they need an ego stroke or just want to feel reassured that they still have the power to make you jump. There is no set formula. No contact is no contact. It’s not about if he tries once, or tries a ten times – it’s about maintaining no contact no matter how many times he tries because eventually they get the message.
Lori G
on 02/12/2008 at 10:07 pm
Astelle and NML- It’s just awful that these assclowns simply aren’t mature enough to just leave us alone. We are the ones who suffer through NC not them. We wanted more, they didn’t. They only want an ego stroke now and then, whenever they deem it necessary to reach out to us.
It’s all up to us to stay strong, try and erase or stop rewinding the tape and playing the situation over and over until it stops (eventually) by staying NC.
When we stay NC long enough as NML says they will someday stop, or just reach out to spark a reaction and see if we are still out there to stroke their ego. There is no more thought in their actions than merely it’s a reaction to not hearing from us in so long. It is sickening how they work.
Ladies stay strong stay NC. Save yourselves from these nasty human beings.
Tryingtoleavehim
on 02/12/2008 at 10:12 pm
My EUM has even admitted after one of our breakups/get back together that he is selfish and thats just what it boils down to. Mine is so selfish because he knows he can’t commit but he can’t commit to being without me either. That is just pure selfishness and the others are the same. They do it out of selfishness….
Gail
on 02/12/2008 at 10:43 pm
Thanks NML and to all else, the other part of this is he is a narcissist. He has a HUGE network of women on two of his sites on Facebook that he feeds from and it was playing out in front of me, besides the texts, im or anything other than a phone call communication, I am sure he has now moved on to make a victim of some other woman. As a woman I was embarassed by the posts of other woman and the sexual, flirting overtones going on right in front of me and I was sleeping with him, very immature for a 51 year old man and I didn’t want any part of it, thus I removed myself as a friend from both his sites and the start of my no contact. I have no plans of trying to take up with him again and as mentioned I didn’t react to his no action on my last response to his im. I know I can do better but it still doesn’t make the get away process easier, I liked this guy! I’m not sure why, physically he wasn’t my type, 5’4″, very fat like he was 9 months pregnant (or worse) and bald, I settled because he had all the things that were interesting to me, a little Napoleon. At the end of the day, this isn’t about him, it’s about me taking a stab at healing myself, my issues and learning how to have a normal relationship going forward. After all my mother or father never gave me these tools, I didn’t know until now and I am 53, my life has been a preverbrial tailspin in relationships, I am very grateful I found NML’s book, this site and all the support….Gail
Nikki
on 02/12/2008 at 11:08 pm
I know what you mean Gail. It’s like these men think they’re like God’s gift to women, and when you think about it honestly, most of these guys aren’t even that great looking. My ex-EUM is the same way. He’s not a ugly guy, but he’s no Brad Pitt. He walks around though with the ego of him though. (I don’t think even Brad’s ego is as inflated as my ex’s is). The sadder part though is that we let these guys how aren’t even great on any degree treat us like dirt, and then we find ourselves begging them! When I look back at some of my old EUMs I think what the hell was I thinking? He wasn’t even cute and treated me like crap and the sex was bad? What a winner, lol.
finallyseenthelight
on 02/12/2008 at 11:19 pm
Gail, I know what you mean about the facebook site. My ex has one also and I found it myself, it’s not as if he invited me to be a “friend” on there. At the time, we were supposed to be in a “monogamous” relationship. He also has a harem of women posting flirty, sexually charged messages and photos…it’s so disgusting. I am embarassed that I still was with him even after seeing the site. I was still sleeping with him too. I am disgusted with myself for being so pathetic at the time and putting up with his narcissistic ways. He has a ton of photos of himself on there…talk about an EGO…
Well…we have to be proud we are on the road to healing…and as NML says…no more Miss Nice Girl..Miss Compassionate Girl…it’s going to be “NO MORE BULLSH_T FROM ASSCLOWNS” for me…that’s my new motto.
I go through ups and downs everyday. I know that I used projection and was compassionate to his dopey excuses and “his issues” and problems with commitment. Next time I fall in love…I need to have both feet planted on the ground in reality…because like Natalie says…it was the fantasy of the relationship I wanted…I wasn’t even in a real relationship and I wasted 2 years of my live crying over this selfish egotistical bastard!!!
Thanks Ladies!!!!!!!!!
myalmostlover
on 03/12/2008 at 12:25 am
The biggest reality is facing the truth and NML really layed that out. The truth is that they never really loved us the way we loved them no matter how hot the hot was but I know one thing…at the end the cold was cold.
I’m so guilty of projecting what I wanted the relationship to be. Yes there was a time when we were both in the same place. I feel like Anne Boylen in “Anne of a Thousand Days” when she was talking about the brief period when she and Henry the Eighth were one. Just a very short period out of their whole relationship. The rest of the time he was chasing her or she was chasing him.
I’m finding the longer I’m away from him the clearer I can see. I really thought I didn’t need NC anymore. After all it had been two months…but I had contact with my xEUM a couple of weeks ago and it set me back terribly. So NC really does mean NC. They are like a drug and you can’t be around them, talk to them, email, text, or exchange brain waves. I hid away all the pics, the stuff he gave me, whatever. Nothing to remind me and even though I have the power to contact him whenever I want I will never do it. There is tremendous power in that.
FinallyOverIt
on 03/12/2008 at 12:43 am
Yes, there is. After almost four months of NC, my ex-EUM called me out of the blue last Friday night and left me a voicemail asking me if I wanted to meet for coffee. I was shocked because I assumed he had gotten the message and would leave me alone….so, once again he comes slinking around, but I was proud of myself because I did not call him back or respond in any way–and I will not. If I spent one minute in his presence at this point, it would bring me back to “that place” and I just can’t go there anymore…..
Gail
on 03/12/2008 at 2:05 am
Okay Ladies, now I need your support. I just signed on to yahoo, I thought I had him blocked out and he wrote the folowing. He has an ego bigger than the world I believe. The guy didn’t even wish me a Happy Thanksgiving back, no reciprocracity and he writes this, just now:
): hey there…..how’s it in Atlanta?
Like nothing is going on. Do I write back and say leave me alone and lay out the boundaries or ignore him! Help!…Gail
LoriG
on 03/12/2008 at 2:26 am
Gail-If you want to break free then you have to go with NC. Do not respond, he is just looking for an ego stroke.
If you are having a hard time, call a close friend, watch a movie, run an errand. Do whatever it takes to shake him from your thoughts and stay NO CONTACT.
LoriG
on 03/12/2008 at 2:29 am
My EUM sent me an email last week after 3.5 months NC and said “I just want to wish you a Happy Thanksgiving!” Barf!!! Happy Thanksgiving my a$$. Hit the delete key and keep reading from this site.
You have nothing and I mean (he’s a) nothing to lose. You have everything to gain by remaining NC.
finallyseenthelight
on 03/12/2008 at 2:43 am
Reading your posts I realize how we do need NC so badly. Just an email or text message can bring us back to square one. We have to proceed like AA, one day at a time…can’t take that first drink (or contact) or we’ll fall off the wagon! Good luck!
Gail
on 03/12/2008 at 2:50 am
Thanks all!
saneagain
on 03/12/2008 at 2:53 am
Gail, my guy sounds just like your “Napoleon” but is 20 years younger! I was giving him a few more years of that bull**** but I can see it never ends with them… True what Astelle says, they don’t change, just move on to the next victim, which explains keeping their little (??) harems.
Carm
on 03/12/2008 at 2:55 am
Gail,
Don’t even write back to say leave you alone. Even if you write to tell him to leave you alone, it’s still an ego stroke for him. Delete him as a contact if you can, because each contact he makes with you is going to set you back as you have already seen.
Astelle
on 03/12/2008 at 4:01 am
Gail, that is all he said? How is Atlanta? Did he not ignore your txt when you responded to his txt? I have read all of your posts and you are doing so great, so why should one little “How is Atlanta?” upset you? Tell him too big for somebody that is 5’4″ and 51 years old.
JUST KIDDING, HAD TO THROW IT IN JUST FOR FUN 🙂
Don’t respond…
Astelle
on 03/12/2008 at 4:06 am
saneagain, that was funny, yey thet keep – or try to – their “little” harem.
I think, truly think, big or small, hehe – their supply will dry up, so please don’t think they have all these woman attending to them, yeah right. 🙂
Astelle
on 03/12/2008 at 4:07 am
Sorry, I meant to type, yes they keep not yey thet keep..
Gaynor
on 03/12/2008 at 5:05 am
Gail,
Why did you wish him a Happy Thanksgiving?
Gail
on 03/12/2008 at 10:01 am
Gaynor, that was on Thanksgiving day. The reason (not the sole reason because it was self-fulfilling for him to check in) for the text from him that morning is that he is a captain on with a major airline and his route is Mumbai. The attacks were on the hotel he stays in. Even though that was happening there I had not contacted him, I am sure it was a blow to his ego and the reason I didn’t was that I was already in nc mode and I knew I wouldn’t have to. Sure enough on thanksgiving morning there was an im waiting saying “the attacks on the hotel is where I stay, Home safe in the Hood”. I don’t wish bad on anyone and of course I was concerned whether he was there or not so I did respond back saying that I was glad he was home safe and have a happy thanksgiving”. Silly me to think he would have enough etiquette to at least say same to you! It stung and that was his slap the face to me. Thus, the posts above from me about the tailspin. This guy is clueless, do you know he has never once asked or started a conversation with a hi, how are you? lol….it makes me laugh and it’s quite pathetic for someone of his stature (intellectually).
Thanks again for jumping in on this but I really didn’t think he would try to get ahold of me again after last week. So Astelle, here is the answer to your question, obviously they just don’t stop particularly if you are the one that disappeared.
Gail
on 03/12/2008 at 10:04 am
P.S. Astelle, that was funny, if I was going to write him back I would use that line!
nysharon
on 03/12/2008 at 1:04 pm
Hi Gail, just wanted to tell you that I am 51 and have found after my divorce (on my own 4 yrs now) that feel I get less respect from men now or is it just the new age of dating? I have found that because I am older, men assume that I am more desperate and think all they have to do is tell me me I’m beautiful and I will be willing to sleep with them. That I will be into booty calls (why not? they say), and thinking I would be OK to just hook up with them until they meet someone else and only call me once in awhile. It took me a while to figure this out. At first when I was recovering from my marriage I was flattered (esp with younger men) and it was fun, however I am now feeling disrespected. I now feel that I am wanting a new relationship, and have had to draw the line and say “that is now what I am looking for. Have you found this too?
Natalie, I am also interested in seeing a post about after you do the NC, “the next man”. I find I need some yellow flag tips on when to cut bait when you are feeling that you may be walking down the path to being involved with another EUM. A Prophylactic artical so to speak.
Gail
on 03/12/2008 at 1:26 pm
Hi NYSharon,
Hmmm, interesting question, for me the disrepect first comes from me allowing them to disrepect me, I realize this now. I’ve never really been able to set boundaries except of course with the nice guys that in truth, I should be with now. I am attracted and get into relationships with the Mr. Unavailable guy, he’s the mirror of my father! As mentioned above, I never had the tools for this until I came across Natlie’s book and this site, all within the last 3 weeks. I am weary from all the bad relationships. Unfortunately, I really got Mr. Unavailable, Mr. Narcasisstic, Assclown this time. My goal for 2009 is to do the homework, ask the questions, set the boundaries before I ever get into bed with them. I do think there is the Mr. Available out there, I’ve met them before!
Dazedandconfused
on 03/12/2008 at 2:01 pm
NML, I feel this post is relevant to your blame game posts as well. For months I have looked at my behaviour and said “of course he did the things to me that he did, I was awful and controlling.” BUT the one thing my counsellor pointed out to me is “you are not such a strong person so as to be able to turn another human being into a liar and cheater.”
Your are right, while I might not have behaved well these men have the opportunity to say “I’m sorry this not working for me” like a normal person would. I always make excuses for other people… I have even become a bit bitter lately with society thinking that many people are just cowards who would prefer to lie other people to not have to face conflict. Does this make all these people assclowns? Even a couple of my girlfriends have defended my EUM saying “this is what people do… they lie so they don’t have to deal with it.”
Anyhow, my controlling nature caused me to do just what you say here I thought I could help him, provide him with care and guidance that his family did not give him, the love his ex g/f would not give him… but it’s not my job. I just wanted the job so I didn’t have to do any of that for me 🙂
Tryingtoleavehim
on 03/12/2008 at 3:22 pm
I’m starting to do the blame game to and I hate that. I get frustrated with him and it turns into resenment which usually turns into me losing it and going off on him. Its a long story but most of it has to do with his 2 youngest children, the ex wife etc. and over the holiday he tried to be accomidating to me but I had let it build up so long it once again reared its ugly head. Last night we had contact and when the subject of breaking up came up he says “I guess so, I haven’t wanted to think about it but, yes, I guess, its not fair to you to wonder. “I DON’T KNOW AND YES, I GUESS” What the h(* kinda answer is that? Just as soon as I tell him that I haven’t been happy for awhile now and am kinda relieved, he gets an attitude at the word “relieved” but says things have changed and it has showed. Well, yeah, because I’m more aware now of the truth. Then when I tell him that this time has to be final because I can’t keep doing this and keep my sanity, I can’t keep being the girl he falls back on because there is no one else and is he ready for that, he says “We will have to see, you are asking a question I can’t answer”…okay, he has admiited its not working, there have been changes, he knows I’m not happy BUT he doesn’t finalize anything. I just don’t get that. Then this morning I wake up feeling bad about it and thinking about all the things I did that was wrong. Am I totally crazy?
Gaynor
on 03/12/2008 at 3:25 pm
Dazed,
That isn’t a job I want!!! There is too much crap going on in everyday life to have to deal with these fools.
I don’t get the girlfriends defending this guy? Are they in toxic relationships as well?
Tryingtoleavehim – I see the problem by just reading your chosen name because ‘trying’ implies being almost resigned to failing. What I don’t understand is why in the face of what you know about him already and you know about men of this type, are you waiting for him to make things final? Why can’t you finalise it and just walk? He call fall on you all he wants but if you make a decision, it means when he falls, he won’t land on you but flat on his face instead.
Lori G
on 03/12/2008 at 3:33 pm
Tryingtoleave- I have been exactly where you are right now. Reading your story is breaking my heart and I don’t you but that’s how much pain I feel for you and what is going on.
You must feel this pain also. It’s just toxic. This situation is poisoning your system and all the good in you.
For your sake and for your own happiness go cold turkey and go NC. This is the only way out for you, he will not give you what you want. He won’t even break up with you. You have been reading these posts you know in your heart that this is your next step. When are you going to cut the cord with this guy?
Tryingtoleavehim
on 03/12/2008 at 3:46 pm
NML – Lori G, Sometimes I wonder what is so wrong with me that I have let this go on for so long? There is some part of me that wants him to actually get in my face and say “go the hell away”…I could handle that way better than the “I guess and I don’t knows”..its pathetic. I guess in a way I have resigned to failing because all of the times in the past I have gone right back and all the times in the past, the breakup was never longer than a week. I started to tell him last night, you can say all the crap you want, but you will be back, you alwasy are! I have fought so hard to keep the relationship going that giving up and walking away is failing to me BUT at the same time my head tells me I have to be totally insane to think this. Sometimes I think the only way I’m ever going to be over him and be able to leave him alone would be to move to another state. As many times as I start cold turkey, do the NC within a few days he will start texting and its like I’m powerless. By then the blame and feeling of failure seems just as bad so I start it all over again. Is there any hope for me at all? Why do I need him to be downright cruel to get a grip?
BBP
on 03/12/2008 at 3:50 pm
Dazed – I’ve noticed in your posts that you mention your “controlling” nature a lot, and I often worry about this trait in myself. I was in therapy yesterday and brought it up and my therapist told me that she thinks maybe the part of me that wants to control comes from wanting to know how it is all going to turn out – to predict the problems before they happen so that you don’t get hurt and to also prevent conflict, and I do this by projecting what I would do in the same situation. Over time it has evolved into figuring out how to control people or predict the future so that you don’t get hurt or blindsided. For me, this comes from being disrespected as a kid and learning to anticipate what my narcissistic mother wanted so that I could keep her happy, keep the family peace and win her affections. Over time it became a need to try and change and control her so that she would see things my way, stop hurting my feelings and respect me.
Unfortunately, not only did that not work as a kid, it definitely doesn’t work as an adult because, as per this post, people will just do what they want to do anyway and you can not only not predict the future, you can’t will or control someone to do what you want them to do – especially not the people we would like to control the most, such as the EUM. And the harder people are to control, up until now the more I try to control them because they are playing out that role of the person (my mom) that I need to control, fix, appease and prevent getting hurt by – which I can see now is a futile exercise. This has been a big lesson for me – not only as to where the need to control comes from, but also the realization that there really is no controlling anyone but myself, and that bad stuff happens whether or not I can see it coming. So it’s ok to let go of the control and deal with the problems in a different, healthier, more assertive way as they present themselves. And besides, we are only exhausting ourselves mentally by trying to control – we really don’t know the future, and it’s been shown time and time again that we really can’t control what other people do. Forgive yourself for wanting to control.
Dazedandconfused
on 03/12/2008 at 4:04 pm
BBP– After identifying how controlling I am (I knew I was I saw it as in charge and I often date men who seem to ask for advice but I take it one step further) I looked up some information on it. Basically, you are right controlling comes from anxiety. My first counsellor ever a few years ago said I use “worry as a form of control.” If you are constantly on edge, constantly trying to “fix” you can be prepared for the worst. It’s part of the women who talk too much syndrome too, if you keep talking it’s in your hands. The minute you stop you, while you are actually taking control by removing yourself, I think we feel we are giving up because the fact is you can’t control another person which is what we are actually trying to do.
Tryingtoleavehim– he is not going to give you a concrete answer from my experience. They will appear to talk, hear you out, say yes you are right I am awful because it gets them off the hook and appeases you but if you are really listening to what he is saying, he’s doing nothing. My EUM used to apologize for lies, disappearances, etc. but then I realized if I had done the things I did to someone else and really felt genuinely badly I would be the one reaching out to them to fix it, and offering a solution. These guys would never come to us after a mistake and say sorry I did this, here is what i suggest for improvement. So just because they sit and listen to you say you are unhappy does not mean they actually care to fix it. Any chances are they will not make any concrete decisions because these guys fear actually making a “statement” that they will come through. Notice what good liars they are? If you never actually commit to anything, no one can tell you that you failed at it or did not come through on your word.
Gaynor
on 03/12/2008 at 4:20 pm
Trying,
Why don’t you just change your number??
Lori G
on 03/12/2008 at 4:22 pm
BBP and Dazed-Thanks for the post on the controlling behavior. After reading I’m seeing some of what you’re discussing about in myself. I too try to anticipate the worst so that I can be one step ahead to prevent the worst from happening. It was a learned behavior from childhood. If I screwed up and made my father mad he was sure to use his belt on me. I did everything in my power to keep him from losing his temper. And here I am still doing it for these assclowns, which are a direct reflection of my father. Ugh!
I’m tired of throwing myself in front of the train hoping to prevent the train wreck. I’ve got to get healthy, happy and wise up.
Tryingtoleavehim
on 03/12/2008 at 4:57 pm
Gaynor – I’ve thought about that but I have been job hunting for the last 4 or 5 months and have resumes out there and online things with my number and changing it would be a major pain in the rear! I just have to grow some balls and not respond. This is his MO, has been since we met. And even back when we first met, when he was boo hooing about how he doesn’t know whats wrong with him, why he is void of feelings, he couldn’t go 3 days with no contact. I’m telling you, he has literally packed up all of my things at his house (all but the toothpaste) dropped it off at my back door on a Friday and by that Sunday morning he was texting about how sad he was and how much he misses me. This time wont be any different unless I make it different. But what I have in store for me won’t be that he will just slink away…he will text more and more, start accusing me of being out with someone etc. etc. Its like just when I cut the contact, I become the challenge! How ironic is that?
Gaynor
on 03/12/2008 at 5:14 pm
OK, you know his MO, so no more excuses! You know nothing is going to change, it didn’t the first time and it won’t the 6099th time.
Tough love time! This man is not responsible for your not moving on, you are. It is time to take control of your situation and life and stop blaming him. You know his game but keep returning to an emotionally abusive relationship. Honey, take control of your life!!!!!!!
Tryingtoleavehim
on 03/12/2008 at 5:28 pm
Gaynor – you are right and I’ve been here since our last breakup September 26 (3 day period) and I could sit here and read and not post but I think when I put it out there, deep down, I want a good A$# Kicking or flogging, so thank you. He just sent me an email just now saying he didnt know what to say and was trying to not think about it..why? because he is worried about his job and so many things and it all ties together and we are both in a funk, not making excuses or placing “blame” but stating a fact. I didn’t respond…step 1!
Gaynor
on 03/12/2008 at 5:43 pm
DON’T RESPOND!!!!!!!
How long does he need to think about it??? That’s all they do is think, make a lot excuses. I’ve never seen sooooooo much indecision in my life! ow do these people function?
Is he as concerned about you job situation, or just his??
Lori G
on 03/12/2008 at 6:33 pm
Tryingtoleavehim-Here’s your flogging. Stop posting if you aren’t willing to change yourself and cut the contact.
The world isn’t going to come to an end if you cut contact. Those of us who have done it are posting out here telling you that it is going to be OK. We’re not dead, we’re not a bunch of ghosts trying to send you a message of “How to Keep an Assclown”. We’re telling you straight up what to do, how to do it and you’re still making excuses.
If you don’t want to cut contact then don’t, it’s none of our business. Good grief, make a decision any decision just DO something instead of making excuses for yourself, and for him.
Dazedandconfused
on 03/12/2008 at 7:04 pm
Tryingtoleavehim– I feel like your posts reflect exactly what this post is about… thinking he is different.
I am not trying to belittle your situation, rather by telling you a bit about what I went through I am hoping you will see that you are 1)not alone and when we say cut contact we do so having gone through this and 2) that he is not different than these other men.
I have spent days, make that 3 months now, saying “but remember that email saying how amazing I was, and how he wanted to be with me, and how he was coming back and I was it… why why would he say that to me if… and then the famous “and what if I had done this maybe all that would have come true?” ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS. I knew this, prior to dating this man, but I am still to this day not following through on this logic. Emails, texts, words of any form mean nothing! I am so sorry to say this, as some of the emails I received from my EUM were the most romantic things that anyone has ever said to me.
Let’s just say for argument’s sake that your guy is different… maybe he really cares, maybe he is a bit messed up and could possibly change… It is not going to happen with you continuing to talk to him, ask him questions, or play these games. Take a step back… even if this were to work out in the long run you have clearly lost some of yourself. It’s time to say, whether he wants me or not I need a timeout, some breathing room because I am exhausted emotionally and need some space to think. The number of times that I jumped on the phone to yell and scream and figure out why my EUM had disappeared for 48 hours now that I have taken time to breathe I think shoot I should have said “I am not in a good head space to cleary think about what you have done. I am going to go think about this.” Had I done that back then I might have gone ‘wow what a jerk I am not putting up with this.” He has no reason to change until you are gone, until you put your money where your mouth is. It’s terrifying, he might never come back BUT you might not either. Get yourself off this roller coaster of drama and start to breathe again. It will hurt immensely, you will cry and feel like someone has punched you in the gut but it gets better and it’s better than the constant pangs of anxiety and sitting at work, home, in a movie and running over your next plan to keep him.
Gail
on 03/12/2008 at 7:42 pm
Dear Tryingtoleavehim,
I am by no means in a position to offer any advice, I’ve got a huge mess I am trying to deal with but what I will say, the women on here have all been here, done that. NML writes more explicitly than any other self help book I’ve ever come across, it is spot on, have you read it yet? I read it in two days because I couldn’t put it down because of the road map about these guys and how to handle it besides giving it a name, I realized I wasn’t that crazy afterall!
Leaving is not easy, I know. Fill your day with worthwhile causes (is he a worthwhile cause?), work, charities, reading Mr. Unavailable, do the homework or just reading and by all means get real with yourself. Obviously you wouldn’t be on here if you weren’t trying to come to some type of terms about this situation and the support from everyone on here is so nonjudgmental, use it!
Best….Gail
Tryingtoleavehim
on 03/12/2008 at 7:52 pm
Thank you everyone and you are all so right. LoriG is right, I shouldn’t even be posting if I don’t want to make a change and I do deep down. I’ve made all the excuses I can for this man and it has to stop and Dazed is right, my situation isn’t any different, he isn’t any different. In response to Gaynor – his own job of 20 years is in jeopardy. They have told him they need him to relocate but he will not because of his kids. He had not done a resume in 20 years, who did it? ME..who sends his resume out? ME..who has helped him look for a job in addition to my own job hunt for the last 4 months? ME…I know that I need to end this if for nothing else because he will always put himself and his childrens needs before mine. I understand the kid part but geese! Now he just sent me an email about my Myspace page…he doesn’t even have a myspace page, has never even been on it except to look at mine and admitted that before. I don’t have anything to hide on there but a girlfriend did post some comments about getting myself out of the drama with him. That is what he just threw up in my face, her comments along with a few other things he read in MY PHONE while going through it reading my text. Can you believe this assclown constantly questioning my every text and every ring of my phone and me putting up with it? NOW I want to email him back and tell him a thing or two…how do you maintain those days, when they get nasty and you want to defend yourself and tell them off? UGH!
Astelle
on 03/12/2008 at 8:08 pm
You just ignore him…
ivyowl
on 04/12/2008 at 12:50 am
I’ve got too much compassion for my EUM. When he hits on me sexually I can’t say no. We are well on our way to an office affair right now unless I can to stop it. I talk to myself all the time about what an assclown he is, and how he choose not to be with me, but to be with her instead..etc.. but it doesn’t help.
I have an expensive, custom made, chastiy belt. I had it fitted it after he left me the first time.I never used it. I think it is time. The plan is when I next have to go down there for a business meeting, I will lock myself into it in the morning and leave the key at home. The distance is long and the steel lock is tamper proof.
I think I got too much compassion to reject him. I am even having a hard time talking myself into wearing the chasty belt! When I realized I was having a hard time with even the chastity belt decision I knew how bad my problem was. I think it is projection because my ego is so hurt and needs stroking so bad.
I really have no trouble rejecting other guys, expecially other assclowns. There is something about this one..
Astelle
on 04/12/2008 at 2:19 am
ivyowl, some women have problems changing their phone numbers.
You have a what belt?? I am not even going there…
Gaynor
on 04/12/2008 at 6:58 am
I don’t under what you mean by “compassion?’ C’mon, are you saying that your response to his phone calls and advances are compassion, compassion has nothing to do with it. You’re choosing to continue an emotionally abusive relationship!
Cynnie
on 04/12/2008 at 12:12 pm
I was on almost 2 months of absolutely no contact when Mr. Unavailable called me at work and I listened to his miss you, love you blah blah tripe. But no apology for standing me up. I asked why it was so hard for him to admit when he was wrong and he said that I never gave him a chance. I told him that he had almost 3 months to apologise and he said give him a minute. Silence. Then I lost it and slammed down the phone. I can’t remember what I said – I was so angry.
Then I realised that he had “won” again. He got a reaction out of me and seemed really amused at my distress.
If I loved someone and hadn’t heard from them in weeks, I would be concerned and want to talk with them. If my partner was upset, I’d want to find out why and make things right. I would want my partner to be happy. Clearly, Mr. Unavailable doesn’t think that way at all. This 5 minutes of phone contact has set back my healing but not derailed it, as every crappy thing that he does only strenthens my resolve to stay away from him and confirms that he is an assclown who doesn’t have my best interest at heart.
This post about compassion and projection was yet another wake-up call that I should be glad that I ended things with Mr. Unavailable and that I cannot have any contact with him – ever.
Gaynor
on 04/12/2008 at 4:38 pm
Ivyow,
Sorry, I forgot the article was about “compassion,” I returned a few days later to follow the posts.
Are you serious about wearing a chastity belt?
Girl, this is a highly unhealthy relationship you’re placing yourself in. What are you getting from this guy?
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You said it, co-dependence is the key!
Another wonderful post/excerpt and right on the money!!
NML – I get this and you hit it on the nailhead….”is that you recognise that even though you were afraid of being on your own, or feeling what you feel on your own, you were already alone even when you thought they were there.”
This is a familiar theme to me and recurring, I am trying to break out of this pattern. Logically, I get it, that’s why I went cold turkey on him with no explanation to him. So why then do I keep internalizing it and replaying the tape over and over in my head, it’s so rediculous.
In my current situation, I was the one that started the NCR and I felt great about it until last week until he im’d me about a life/death situation and I responded back giving him the power/ego boost he needed even though it was in a very impersonal manner and of course and no surprise, he didn’t respond back. This put me into a tailspin, I was fine until then. I think it was a ploy on his part to try to get me to react which I haven’t and am maintaining the NCR. This guy is an assclown, he wasn’t in the relationship and he tripped my trigger last week and I am struggling this week. Not about contacting him but the internal tape recorder is killing me, coulda, shoulda, etc…..Gail
On the alone thing – when I left my EUM for the first time, which was before I started reading this site, I told him that being with him was worse than being alone because I couldn’t have him and I couldn’t move on. Reading this just nails that feeling all over again – because it was true.
Also, the compassion and projection – I’ve been searching for why I do what I do because I know in my heart I’m a nice person, and I just realized today that I do this compassion/projection thing SO MUCH!! And not just with guys, but with my friends and my family as well. Wow. I really never stopped to think that, hey, we aren’t the same person and they might NOT do what I would do. In fact they don’t do what I do – they just do whatever they want! This is one of the best posts yet. I can’t wait for the book.
Yes, this is also so true for how we relate to friends and family. What I am learning is that if we present ourselves to others in a way that gives them the message that we don’t love or respect ourselves, that is what we will get back in return…..
I think the piece which I really had a hard time grasping with my EUM is that he didn’t want me. I’m a good person, I don’t take advantage, etc but for months during this NC period I’ve often felt that there must be something wrong with me for him not to be interested enough. But this post really explains all of it.
He has a problem, it’s not for me to solve, or anything else. He has a lot of acquaintances mostly and there is a reason for this and it’s much more clear today.
The other piece is that he may not be able to ever be anything more than assclown because frankly he is what he is. Whether he can commit to someone else remains to be seen, and if he can how long will it last? None of his crap is any of my business any longer.
Each day I get up and get started in my day, I’m thankful – very thankful for every day. It’s like the fog has lifted and I can see how lucky I am to be here…in this glorious, beautiful day. I believe more and more in myself, in my own abilities, and having the ability to make better, healthier and informed choices for MYSELF.
Lori G,
Good for you!!!!
Lori G, like NML said in one of her posts, he was scr**ed up before you met him, while you were with him and after you are gone.
I also used to think that there is something wrong with me, but a friend of mine reminded me that I was well “trained” by my ex husband. 🙂
With NML’s help I even realize now that it started with my ex husband and not this assclown. When I asked my friends they said we told you what he is you just didn’t understand it at that time.
Better late than never. 🙂
Gail, I went cold turkey as well and I hope more of the ladies posting here will choose that route. You can’t mess up anything with doing NOTHING and that is what NC will do for you. There is no need for an explanation because they don’t care about us just about themselves, you won’t have screeming matches, fights or stalking him and feel even worse about the “break up”. Actually when there is no relationship, there is nothing to break up in my book.
He doesn’t sit there and goes, hmm she is doing NC with me, he has no clue, all he knows is that he hasn’t heard from you and he may get in touch if he needs something – it is all about him.
I truly believe, men like this never change, they just move on to the next woman and it will get harder and harder for them (age) to find the next victim.
Thanks for the comments girls!
Gail – You highlight something else which is the theme of tomorrow’s post – contact is contact You can put whatever spin or tone on it but these guy don’t read between the lines of what you do and think, oh well she only gave me a teeny but of contact this time – the assclown just checked in to ensure that you still care enough to respond. Don’t go into a tailspin – push your way out of it, stick to your guns, and don’t make contact, plain and simple. It was a ploy and now that you know it, you can do something next time.
FinallyOverIt – Spot on! We focus very much on being nice and this being reciprocated but we often don’t realise that there are other ways that we behave that *are* reciprocated.
Lori G and BBP, I picked up on something there that exempifies this post so excuse me for highighting 🙂
“I’m a nice person”
“. I’m a good person, I don’t take advantage”
Yes, but unfortunately, being this way does not ensure that you get a nice man, a good man and a good relationship because you are still choosing to be with a man who isn’t good or nice on a consisten basis and who does take advantage.
I am glad you are becoming more positive and seeing him more clearly but more importantly seeing yourself more clearly.
Astelle – Yes, one day they wake up and see a pathetic old assclown in the mirror…and then they go out and look for the next ego stroke and block out the clarity or quickly find the first woman they can marry….
NML, he just wanted to make sure that Gail cares enough to respond, that means she will hear form him again?
Damn, if I only knew then what I know now. How much time I wasted.
Astelle – It’s hard to say as some men, once is enough. Others will make contact, see they they get a response, and then go about their business until the next time they need an ego stroke or just want to feel reassured that they still have the power to make you jump. There is no set formula. No contact is no contact. It’s not about if he tries once, or tries a ten times – it’s about maintaining no contact no matter how many times he tries because eventually they get the message.
Astelle and NML- It’s just awful that these assclowns simply aren’t mature enough to just leave us alone. We are the ones who suffer through NC not them. We wanted more, they didn’t. They only want an ego stroke now and then, whenever they deem it necessary to reach out to us.
It’s all up to us to stay strong, try and erase or stop rewinding the tape and playing the situation over and over until it stops (eventually) by staying NC.
When we stay NC long enough as NML says they will someday stop, or just reach out to spark a reaction and see if we are still out there to stroke their ego. There is no more thought in their actions than merely it’s a reaction to not hearing from us in so long. It is sickening how they work.
Ladies stay strong stay NC. Save yourselves from these nasty human beings.
My EUM has even admitted after one of our breakups/get back together that he is selfish and thats just what it boils down to. Mine is so selfish because he knows he can’t commit but he can’t commit to being without me either. That is just pure selfishness and the others are the same. They do it out of selfishness….
Thanks NML and to all else, the other part of this is he is a narcissist. He has a HUGE network of women on two of his sites on Facebook that he feeds from and it was playing out in front of me, besides the texts, im or anything other than a phone call communication, I am sure he has now moved on to make a victim of some other woman. As a woman I was embarassed by the posts of other woman and the sexual, flirting overtones going on right in front of me and I was sleeping with him, very immature for a 51 year old man and I didn’t want any part of it, thus I removed myself as a friend from both his sites and the start of my no contact. I have no plans of trying to take up with him again and as mentioned I didn’t react to his no action on my last response to his im. I know I can do better but it still doesn’t make the get away process easier, I liked this guy! I’m not sure why, physically he wasn’t my type, 5’4″, very fat like he was 9 months pregnant (or worse) and bald, I settled because he had all the things that were interesting to me, a little Napoleon. At the end of the day, this isn’t about him, it’s about me taking a stab at healing myself, my issues and learning how to have a normal relationship going forward. After all my mother or father never gave me these tools, I didn’t know until now and I am 53, my life has been a preverbrial tailspin in relationships, I am very grateful I found NML’s book, this site and all the support….Gail
I know what you mean Gail. It’s like these men think they’re like God’s gift to women, and when you think about it honestly, most of these guys aren’t even that great looking. My ex-EUM is the same way. He’s not a ugly guy, but he’s no Brad Pitt. He walks around though with the ego of him though. (I don’t think even Brad’s ego is as inflated as my ex’s is). The sadder part though is that we let these guys how aren’t even great on any degree treat us like dirt, and then we find ourselves begging them! When I look back at some of my old EUMs I think what the hell was I thinking? He wasn’t even cute and treated me like crap and the sex was bad? What a winner, lol.
Gail, I know what you mean about the facebook site. My ex has one also and I found it myself, it’s not as if he invited me to be a “friend” on there. At the time, we were supposed to be in a “monogamous” relationship. He also has a harem of women posting flirty, sexually charged messages and photos…it’s so disgusting. I am embarassed that I still was with him even after seeing the site. I was still sleeping with him too. I am disgusted with myself for being so pathetic at the time and putting up with his narcissistic ways. He has a ton of photos of himself on there…talk about an EGO…
Well…we have to be proud we are on the road to healing…and as NML says…no more Miss Nice Girl..Miss Compassionate Girl…it’s going to be “NO MORE BULLSH_T FROM ASSCLOWNS” for me…that’s my new motto.
I go through ups and downs everyday. I know that I used projection and was compassionate to his dopey excuses and “his issues” and problems with commitment. Next time I fall in love…I need to have both feet planted on the ground in reality…because like Natalie says…it was the fantasy of the relationship I wanted…I wasn’t even in a real relationship and I wasted 2 years of my live crying over this selfish egotistical bastard!!!
Thanks Ladies!!!!!!!!!
The biggest reality is facing the truth and NML really layed that out. The truth is that they never really loved us the way we loved them no matter how hot the hot was but I know one thing…at the end the cold was cold.
I’m so guilty of projecting what I wanted the relationship to be. Yes there was a time when we were both in the same place. I feel like Anne Boylen in “Anne of a Thousand Days” when she was talking about the brief period when she and Henry the Eighth were one. Just a very short period out of their whole relationship. The rest of the time he was chasing her or she was chasing him.
I’m finding the longer I’m away from him the clearer I can see. I really thought I didn’t need NC anymore. After all it had been two months…but I had contact with my xEUM a couple of weeks ago and it set me back terribly. So NC really does mean NC. They are like a drug and you can’t be around them, talk to them, email, text, or exchange brain waves. I hid away all the pics, the stuff he gave me, whatever. Nothing to remind me and even though I have the power to contact him whenever I want I will never do it. There is tremendous power in that.
Yes, there is. After almost four months of NC, my ex-EUM called me out of the blue last Friday night and left me a voicemail asking me if I wanted to meet for coffee. I was shocked because I assumed he had gotten the message and would leave me alone….so, once again he comes slinking around, but I was proud of myself because I did not call him back or respond in any way–and I will not. If I spent one minute in his presence at this point, it would bring me back to “that place” and I just can’t go there anymore…..
Okay Ladies, now I need your support. I just signed on to yahoo, I thought I had him blocked out and he wrote the folowing. He has an ego bigger than the world I believe. The guy didn’t even wish me a Happy Thanksgiving back, no reciprocracity and he writes this, just now:
): hey there…..how’s it in Atlanta?
Like nothing is going on. Do I write back and say leave me alone and lay out the boundaries or ignore him! Help!…Gail
Gail-If you want to break free then you have to go with NC. Do not respond, he is just looking for an ego stroke.
If you are having a hard time, call a close friend, watch a movie, run an errand. Do whatever it takes to shake him from your thoughts and stay NO CONTACT.
My EUM sent me an email last week after 3.5 months NC and said “I just want to wish you a Happy Thanksgiving!” Barf!!! Happy Thanksgiving my a$$. Hit the delete key and keep reading from this site.
You have nothing and I mean (he’s a) nothing to lose. You have everything to gain by remaining NC.
Reading your posts I realize how we do need NC so badly. Just an email or text message can bring us back to square one. We have to proceed like AA, one day at a time…can’t take that first drink (or contact) or we’ll fall off the wagon! Good luck!
Thanks all!
Gail, my guy sounds just like your “Napoleon” but is 20 years younger! I was giving him a few more years of that bull**** but I can see it never ends with them… True what Astelle says, they don’t change, just move on to the next victim, which explains keeping their little (??) harems.
Gail,
Don’t even write back to say leave you alone. Even if you write to tell him to leave you alone, it’s still an ego stroke for him. Delete him as a contact if you can, because each contact he makes with you is going to set you back as you have already seen.
Gail, that is all he said? How is Atlanta? Did he not ignore your txt when you responded to his txt? I have read all of your posts and you are doing so great, so why should one little “How is Atlanta?” upset you? Tell him too big for somebody that is 5’4″ and 51 years old.
JUST KIDDING, HAD TO THROW IT IN JUST FOR FUN 🙂
Don’t respond…
saneagain, that was funny, yey thet keep – or try to – their “little” harem.
I think, truly think, big or small, hehe – their supply will dry up, so please don’t think they have all these woman attending to them, yeah right. 🙂
Sorry, I meant to type, yes they keep not yey thet keep..
Gail,
Why did you wish him a Happy Thanksgiving?
Gaynor, that was on Thanksgiving day. The reason (not the sole reason because it was self-fulfilling for him to check in) for the text from him that morning is that he is a captain on with a major airline and his route is Mumbai. The attacks were on the hotel he stays in. Even though that was happening there I had not contacted him, I am sure it was a blow to his ego and the reason I didn’t was that I was already in nc mode and I knew I wouldn’t have to. Sure enough on thanksgiving morning there was an im waiting saying “the attacks on the hotel is where I stay, Home safe in the Hood”. I don’t wish bad on anyone and of course I was concerned whether he was there or not so I did respond back saying that I was glad he was home safe and have a happy thanksgiving”. Silly me to think he would have enough etiquette to at least say same to you! It stung and that was his slap the face to me. Thus, the posts above from me about the tailspin. This guy is clueless, do you know he has never once asked or started a conversation with a hi, how are you? lol….it makes me laugh and it’s quite pathetic for someone of his stature (intellectually).
Thanks again for jumping in on this but I really didn’t think he would try to get ahold of me again after last week. So Astelle, here is the answer to your question, obviously they just don’t stop particularly if you are the one that disappeared.
P.S. Astelle, that was funny, if I was going to write him back I would use that line!
Hi Gail, just wanted to tell you that I am 51 and have found after my divorce (on my own 4 yrs now) that feel I get less respect from men now or is it just the new age of dating? I have found that because I am older, men assume that I am more desperate and think all they have to do is tell me me I’m beautiful and I will be willing to sleep with them. That I will be into booty calls (why not? they say), and thinking I would be OK to just hook up with them until they meet someone else and only call me once in awhile. It took me a while to figure this out. At first when I was recovering from my marriage I was flattered (esp with younger men) and it was fun, however I am now feeling disrespected. I now feel that I am wanting a new relationship, and have had to draw the line and say “that is now what I am looking for. Have you found this too?
Natalie, I am also interested in seeing a post about after you do the NC, “the next man”. I find I need some yellow flag tips on when to cut bait when you are feeling that you may be walking down the path to being involved with another EUM. A Prophylactic artical so to speak.
Hi NYSharon,
Hmmm, interesting question, for me the disrepect first comes from me allowing them to disrepect me, I realize this now. I’ve never really been able to set boundaries except of course with the nice guys that in truth, I should be with now. I am attracted and get into relationships with the Mr. Unavailable guy, he’s the mirror of my father! As mentioned above, I never had the tools for this until I came across Natlie’s book and this site, all within the last 3 weeks. I am weary from all the bad relationships. Unfortunately, I really got Mr. Unavailable, Mr. Narcasisstic, Assclown this time. My goal for 2009 is to do the homework, ask the questions, set the boundaries before I ever get into bed with them. I do think there is the Mr. Available out there, I’ve met them before!
NML, I feel this post is relevant to your blame game posts as well. For months I have looked at my behaviour and said “of course he did the things to me that he did, I was awful and controlling.” BUT the one thing my counsellor pointed out to me is “you are not such a strong person so as to be able to turn another human being into a liar and cheater.”
Your are right, while I might not have behaved well these men have the opportunity to say “I’m sorry this not working for me” like a normal person would. I always make excuses for other people… I have even become a bit bitter lately with society thinking that many people are just cowards who would prefer to lie other people to not have to face conflict. Does this make all these people assclowns? Even a couple of my girlfriends have defended my EUM saying “this is what people do… they lie so they don’t have to deal with it.”
Anyhow, my controlling nature caused me to do just what you say here I thought I could help him, provide him with care and guidance that his family did not give him, the love his ex g/f would not give him… but it’s not my job. I just wanted the job so I didn’t have to do any of that for me 🙂
I’m starting to do the blame game to and I hate that. I get frustrated with him and it turns into resenment which usually turns into me losing it and going off on him. Its a long story but most of it has to do with his 2 youngest children, the ex wife etc. and over the holiday he tried to be accomidating to me but I had let it build up so long it once again reared its ugly head. Last night we had contact and when the subject of breaking up came up he says “I guess so, I haven’t wanted to think about it but, yes, I guess, its not fair to you to wonder. “I DON’T KNOW AND YES, I GUESS” What the h(* kinda answer is that? Just as soon as I tell him that I haven’t been happy for awhile now and am kinda relieved, he gets an attitude at the word “relieved” but says things have changed and it has showed. Well, yeah, because I’m more aware now of the truth. Then when I tell him that this time has to be final because I can’t keep doing this and keep my sanity, I can’t keep being the girl he falls back on because there is no one else and is he ready for that, he says “We will have to see, you are asking a question I can’t answer”…okay, he has admiited its not working, there have been changes, he knows I’m not happy BUT he doesn’t finalize anything. I just don’t get that. Then this morning I wake up feeling bad about it and thinking about all the things I did that was wrong. Am I totally crazy?
Dazed,
That isn’t a job I want!!! There is too much crap going on in everyday life to have to deal with these fools.
I don’t get the girlfriends defending this guy? Are they in toxic relationships as well?
Tryingtoleavehim – I see the problem by just reading your chosen name because ‘trying’ implies being almost resigned to failing. What I don’t understand is why in the face of what you know about him already and you know about men of this type, are you waiting for him to make things final? Why can’t you finalise it and just walk? He call fall on you all he wants but if you make a decision, it means when he falls, he won’t land on you but flat on his face instead.
Tryingtoleave- I have been exactly where you are right now. Reading your story is breaking my heart and I don’t you but that’s how much pain I feel for you and what is going on.
You must feel this pain also. It’s just toxic. This situation is poisoning your system and all the good in you.
For your sake and for your own happiness go cold turkey and go NC. This is the only way out for you, he will not give you what you want. He won’t even break up with you. You have been reading these posts you know in your heart that this is your next step. When are you going to cut the cord with this guy?
NML – Lori G, Sometimes I wonder what is so wrong with me that I have let this go on for so long? There is some part of me that wants him to actually get in my face and say “go the hell away”…I could handle that way better than the “I guess and I don’t knows”..its pathetic. I guess in a way I have resigned to failing because all of the times in the past I have gone right back and all the times in the past, the breakup was never longer than a week. I started to tell him last night, you can say all the crap you want, but you will be back, you alwasy are! I have fought so hard to keep the relationship going that giving up and walking away is failing to me BUT at the same time my head tells me I have to be totally insane to think this. Sometimes I think the only way I’m ever going to be over him and be able to leave him alone would be to move to another state. As many times as I start cold turkey, do the NC within a few days he will start texting and its like I’m powerless. By then the blame and feeling of failure seems just as bad so I start it all over again. Is there any hope for me at all? Why do I need him to be downright cruel to get a grip?
Dazed – I’ve noticed in your posts that you mention your “controlling” nature a lot, and I often worry about this trait in myself. I was in therapy yesterday and brought it up and my therapist told me that she thinks maybe the part of me that wants to control comes from wanting to know how it is all going to turn out – to predict the problems before they happen so that you don’t get hurt and to also prevent conflict, and I do this by projecting what I would do in the same situation. Over time it has evolved into figuring out how to control people or predict the future so that you don’t get hurt or blindsided. For me, this comes from being disrespected as a kid and learning to anticipate what my narcissistic mother wanted so that I could keep her happy, keep the family peace and win her affections. Over time it became a need to try and change and control her so that she would see things my way, stop hurting my feelings and respect me.
Unfortunately, not only did that not work as a kid, it definitely doesn’t work as an adult because, as per this post, people will just do what they want to do anyway and you can not only not predict the future, you can’t will or control someone to do what you want them to do – especially not the people we would like to control the most, such as the EUM. And the harder people are to control, up until now the more I try to control them because they are playing out that role of the person (my mom) that I need to control, fix, appease and prevent getting hurt by – which I can see now is a futile exercise. This has been a big lesson for me – not only as to where the need to control comes from, but also the realization that there really is no controlling anyone but myself, and that bad stuff happens whether or not I can see it coming. So it’s ok to let go of the control and deal with the problems in a different, healthier, more assertive way as they present themselves. And besides, we are only exhausting ourselves mentally by trying to control – we really don’t know the future, and it’s been shown time and time again that we really can’t control what other people do. Forgive yourself for wanting to control.
BBP– After identifying how controlling I am (I knew I was I saw it as in charge and I often date men who seem to ask for advice but I take it one step further) I looked up some information on it. Basically, you are right controlling comes from anxiety. My first counsellor ever a few years ago said I use “worry as a form of control.” If you are constantly on edge, constantly trying to “fix” you can be prepared for the worst. It’s part of the women who talk too much syndrome too, if you keep talking it’s in your hands. The minute you stop you, while you are actually taking control by removing yourself, I think we feel we are giving up because the fact is you can’t control another person which is what we are actually trying to do.
Tryingtoleavehim– he is not going to give you a concrete answer from my experience. They will appear to talk, hear you out, say yes you are right I am awful because it gets them off the hook and appeases you but if you are really listening to what he is saying, he’s doing nothing. My EUM used to apologize for lies, disappearances, etc. but then I realized if I had done the things I did to someone else and really felt genuinely badly I would be the one reaching out to them to fix it, and offering a solution. These guys would never come to us after a mistake and say sorry I did this, here is what i suggest for improvement. So just because they sit and listen to you say you are unhappy does not mean they actually care to fix it. Any chances are they will not make any concrete decisions because these guys fear actually making a “statement” that they will come through. Notice what good liars they are? If you never actually commit to anything, no one can tell you that you failed at it or did not come through on your word.
Trying,
Why don’t you just change your number??
BBP and Dazed-Thanks for the post on the controlling behavior. After reading I’m seeing some of what you’re discussing about in myself. I too try to anticipate the worst so that I can be one step ahead to prevent the worst from happening. It was a learned behavior from childhood. If I screwed up and made my father mad he was sure to use his belt on me. I did everything in my power to keep him from losing his temper. And here I am still doing it for these assclowns, which are a direct reflection of my father. Ugh!
I’m tired of throwing myself in front of the train hoping to prevent the train wreck. I’ve got to get healthy, happy and wise up.
Gaynor – I’ve thought about that but I have been job hunting for the last 4 or 5 months and have resumes out there and online things with my number and changing it would be a major pain in the rear! I just have to grow some balls and not respond. This is his MO, has been since we met. And even back when we first met, when he was boo hooing about how he doesn’t know whats wrong with him, why he is void of feelings, he couldn’t go 3 days with no contact. I’m telling you, he has literally packed up all of my things at his house (all but the toothpaste) dropped it off at my back door on a Friday and by that Sunday morning he was texting about how sad he was and how much he misses me. This time wont be any different unless I make it different. But what I have in store for me won’t be that he will just slink away…he will text more and more, start accusing me of being out with someone etc. etc. Its like just when I cut the contact, I become the challenge! How ironic is that?
OK, you know his MO, so no more excuses! You know nothing is going to change, it didn’t the first time and it won’t the 6099th time.
Tough love time! This man is not responsible for your not moving on, you are. It is time to take control of your situation and life and stop blaming him. You know his game but keep returning to an emotionally abusive relationship. Honey, take control of your life!!!!!!!
Gaynor – you are right and I’ve been here since our last breakup September 26 (3 day period) and I could sit here and read and not post but I think when I put it out there, deep down, I want a good A$# Kicking or flogging, so thank you. He just sent me an email just now saying he didnt know what to say and was trying to not think about it..why? because he is worried about his job and so many things and it all ties together and we are both in a funk, not making excuses or placing “blame” but stating a fact. I didn’t respond…step 1!
DON’T RESPOND!!!!!!!
How long does he need to think about it??? That’s all they do is think, make a lot excuses. I’ve never seen sooooooo much indecision in my life! ow do these people function?
Is he as concerned about you job situation, or just his??
Tryingtoleavehim-Here’s your flogging. Stop posting if you aren’t willing to change yourself and cut the contact.
The world isn’t going to come to an end if you cut contact. Those of us who have done it are posting out here telling you that it is going to be OK. We’re not dead, we’re not a bunch of ghosts trying to send you a message of “How to Keep an Assclown”. We’re telling you straight up what to do, how to do it and you’re still making excuses.
If you don’t want to cut contact then don’t, it’s none of our business. Good grief, make a decision any decision just DO something instead of making excuses for yourself, and for him.
Tryingtoleavehim– I feel like your posts reflect exactly what this post is about… thinking he is different.
I am not trying to belittle your situation, rather by telling you a bit about what I went through I am hoping you will see that you are 1)not alone and when we say cut contact we do so having gone through this and 2) that he is not different than these other men.
I have spent days, make that 3 months now, saying “but remember that email saying how amazing I was, and how he wanted to be with me, and how he was coming back and I was it… why why would he say that to me if… and then the famous “and what if I had done this maybe all that would have come true?” ACTIONS SPEAK LOUDER THAN WORDS. I knew this, prior to dating this man, but I am still to this day not following through on this logic. Emails, texts, words of any form mean nothing! I am so sorry to say this, as some of the emails I received from my EUM were the most romantic things that anyone has ever said to me.
Let’s just say for argument’s sake that your guy is different… maybe he really cares, maybe he is a bit messed up and could possibly change… It is not going to happen with you continuing to talk to him, ask him questions, or play these games. Take a step back… even if this were to work out in the long run you have clearly lost some of yourself. It’s time to say, whether he wants me or not I need a timeout, some breathing room because I am exhausted emotionally and need some space to think. The number of times that I jumped on the phone to yell and scream and figure out why my EUM had disappeared for 48 hours now that I have taken time to breathe I think shoot I should have said “I am not in a good head space to cleary think about what you have done. I am going to go think about this.” Had I done that back then I might have gone ‘wow what a jerk I am not putting up with this.” He has no reason to change until you are gone, until you put your money where your mouth is. It’s terrifying, he might never come back BUT you might not either. Get yourself off this roller coaster of drama and start to breathe again. It will hurt immensely, you will cry and feel like someone has punched you in the gut but it gets better and it’s better than the constant pangs of anxiety and sitting at work, home, in a movie and running over your next plan to keep him.
Dear Tryingtoleavehim,
I am by no means in a position to offer any advice, I’ve got a huge mess I am trying to deal with but what I will say, the women on here have all been here, done that. NML writes more explicitly than any other self help book I’ve ever come across, it is spot on, have you read it yet? I read it in two days because I couldn’t put it down because of the road map about these guys and how to handle it besides giving it a name, I realized I wasn’t that crazy afterall!
Leaving is not easy, I know. Fill your day with worthwhile causes (is he a worthwhile cause?), work, charities, reading Mr. Unavailable, do the homework or just reading and by all means get real with yourself. Obviously you wouldn’t be on here if you weren’t trying to come to some type of terms about this situation and the support from everyone on here is so nonjudgmental, use it!
Best….Gail
Thank you everyone and you are all so right. LoriG is right, I shouldn’t even be posting if I don’t want to make a change and I do deep down. I’ve made all the excuses I can for this man and it has to stop and Dazed is right, my situation isn’t any different, he isn’t any different. In response to Gaynor – his own job of 20 years is in jeopardy. They have told him they need him to relocate but he will not because of his kids. He had not done a resume in 20 years, who did it? ME..who sends his resume out? ME..who has helped him look for a job in addition to my own job hunt for the last 4 months? ME…I know that I need to end this if for nothing else because he will always put himself and his childrens needs before mine. I understand the kid part but geese! Now he just sent me an email about my Myspace page…he doesn’t even have a myspace page, has never even been on it except to look at mine and admitted that before. I don’t have anything to hide on there but a girlfriend did post some comments about getting myself out of the drama with him. That is what he just threw up in my face, her comments along with a few other things he read in MY PHONE while going through it reading my text. Can you believe this assclown constantly questioning my every text and every ring of my phone and me putting up with it? NOW I want to email him back and tell him a thing or two…how do you maintain those days, when they get nasty and you want to defend yourself and tell them off? UGH!
You just ignore him…
I’ve got too much compassion for my EUM. When he hits on me sexually I can’t say no. We are well on our way to an office affair right now unless I can to stop it. I talk to myself all the time about what an assclown he is, and how he choose not to be with me, but to be with her instead..etc.. but it doesn’t help.
I have an expensive, custom made, chastiy belt. I had it fitted it after he left me the first time.I never used it. I think it is time. The plan is when I next have to go down there for a business meeting, I will lock myself into it in the morning and leave the key at home. The distance is long and the steel lock is tamper proof.
I think I got too much compassion to reject him. I am even having a hard time talking myself into wearing the chasty belt! When I realized I was having a hard time with even the chastity belt decision I knew how bad my problem was. I think it is projection because my ego is so hurt and needs stroking so bad.
I really have no trouble rejecting other guys, expecially other assclowns. There is something about this one..
ivyowl, some women have problems changing their phone numbers.
You have a what belt?? I am not even going there…
I don’t under what you mean by “compassion?’ C’mon, are you saying that your response to his phone calls and advances are compassion, compassion has nothing to do with it. You’re choosing to continue an emotionally abusive relationship!
I was on almost 2 months of absolutely no contact when Mr. Unavailable called me at work and I listened to his miss you, love you blah blah tripe. But no apology for standing me up. I asked why it was so hard for him to admit when he was wrong and he said that I never gave him a chance. I told him that he had almost 3 months to apologise and he said give him a minute. Silence. Then I lost it and slammed down the phone. I can’t remember what I said – I was so angry.
Then I realised that he had “won” again. He got a reaction out of me and seemed really amused at my distress.
If I loved someone and hadn’t heard from them in weeks, I would be concerned and want to talk with them. If my partner was upset, I’d want to find out why and make things right. I would want my partner to be happy. Clearly, Mr. Unavailable doesn’t think that way at all. This 5 minutes of phone contact has set back my healing but not derailed it, as every crappy thing that he does only strenthens my resolve to stay away from him and confirms that he is an assclown who doesn’t have my best interest at heart.
This post about compassion and projection was yet another wake-up call that I should be glad that I ended things with Mr. Unavailable and that I cannot have any contact with him – ever.
Ivyow,
Sorry, I forgot the article was about “compassion,” I returned a few days later to follow the posts.
Are you serious about wearing a chastity belt?
Girl, this is a highly unhealthy relationship you’re placing yourself in. What are you getting from this guy?