Sometimes when we’re around somebody who appears to have a lot on their mind or who we think is behaving differently, we can make the mistake of assuming that it’s got something to do with us. Even if we haven’t done a damn thing, suddenly we’re imagining scenarios where we’ve committed some sort of offence. While I get a hell of a lot of emails about relationships, I also get a fair amount about struggles with conflict and criticism in the workplace and with friends.
When you’re inclined to have an overactive ‘blame thyroid’ and struggle with the likes of rejection, conflict, criticism and disappointment, having a default concern that you’ve erred in some way can leave you feeling very wounded… and that’s before you’ve even clarified the situation and discovered the facts. This means that you may be feeling wounded and reliving old pain and you may not have actually ‘done’ anything to warrant your rumination and possible torment.
Recently I witnessed a misunderstanding like this unfolding between two work colleagues and it was a stark reminder of one of my personal guidelines: not everything is about you (or me).
Person A had received some bad news that must have affected her attitude at work. Person B without asking anything, jumped to the conclusion that Person A had an issue with her, which in turn affected her attitude. When I walked in, they were both hugging and Person B was crying, apologising and expressing deep embarrassment now that she’d realising that Person A is going through a very painful personal crisis. A few minutes passed and Person B awkwardly attempted to explain why she’d behaved as she had, which only made things worse and Person A said, “What you said was extremely insensitive and made what is already a very difficult situation even worse.” She also added, “Instead of making those comments, it would be better if you just ask”.
I know I’m not alone in having one of those moments where someone says that they need to talk you about something and then you go into worry mode trying to work out what you’ve done wrong…even though you know that you haven’t. Of course even in knowing this, you then try to think of something that might have been misinterpreted. Then you speak to this person and they’re telling you a personal problem or a secret, or they’re inviting you somewhere or asking you something. Then you feel a bit silly for being anxious.
Now while having a little ponder about what you’ve ‘done wrong’ is one thing, taking it to Dynasty levels of drama by imagining all sorts of conflict and your argument response, feeling wounded, reliving old pain and translating all of this into passive aggressive and/or aggressive behaviour, as well as forming a negative opinion of them and even conveying it to the person in question, is what takes this not only into misunderstanding territory, but is also the type of thing that’s likely to cause offence when it’s out in the open and it’s going to end up not only giving them the impression that you don’t think too highly of them, but they’re probably going to be a bit wary of you. Which is understandable really.
When something like this happens, it becomes less about what’s actually going on and more about your own internal drama and actually, your opinion about you and how it’s being projected onto others.
Add in that they may turn around and say, “Actually I’m ill / a family member is ill / someone has died / I’m getting divorced / I was robbed / I’m feeling depressed” and umpteen other possibilities and they may go from having one issue to deal with… to two, plus they may even feel compelled to disclose something very personal just so that they can reassure you that it’s not you, plus they may even have to put aside their issues to pacify you and it becomes super-awkward.
Work in particular, is one of those places where people have to force themselves to go even when they’re in emotional turmoil. The likelihood is that you really have no idea what’s going on in the lives of some of the people you work with, even if you’re spending what feels like most of your life with them. Work can also be used as a means of escaping other aspects of our life including our feelings and we can be inclined to think that we’re behaving normally, when our attitude and demeanour are actually being affected. And yeah it would be nice if people gave you a heads up when they have issues in their lives but it’s probably easier if you don’t put yourself in the centre of everything.
It’s so easy to assume that if someone is in a bad mood or isn’t being themselves that it ‘must’ be something to do with you, but really, it’s not. People have their own lives, thoughts, worries, beliefs, motivations, agendas etc.
If you can think of at least one other possibility (believe me you can if you move away from default blame mode), why charge in on false information and work up a negative diagnosis when you could just ask, “Is everything OK?” Isn’t this a way of expressing concern and finding out what’s going on?
Even with one other reason in existence, the odds are the same for guessing the sex of a baby. Yeah you could be right, but equally you could be wrong. Would you buy everything for the sex you’ve decided that it is, decorate the nursery, choose the name, and make the announcement without clarification?
Stop, look, listen, observe. Ask if something is wrong. Calm down and have enough curiosity to consider other possibilities. If you ask and they say it’s not you, accept that it’s the the truth and move on. Whatever you do, be very careful of making a detailed accusation and dragging in all sorts of things because you cannot take it back after they go, “Er, actually I’m __________ and I don’t know what you’re talking about.” Also don’t bite your tongue and then show your annoyance by being passive aggressive. The awkward thing is that if they call you on it, you might deny it or say that it’s because they’ve done whatever you assumed and then when they say it isn’t true, you’re only going to be more defensive.
Believe me, as someone who since I was a child used to assume that if something went wrong or someone was upset that I must have something to do with it, I know the path of self-blame and internal drama all too well. It’s important to talk rationally to you to change that default setting of assuming that it’s you and then running with it. I still get that feeling sometimes like “Oh-oh…” as if someone is mad at me for forgetting to do chores or homework then a voice chimes in and reminds me that I’m a grownup now!
I’ve found that by taking the attitude of, If they have an issue they’ll raise it, and that if I’ve got an issue or I think that I actually have done something that I’ll raise it, it’s saved me a lot of drama because it keeps me in reality instead of stressing out unnecessarily.
Your thoughts?
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Man you nail it every time. I was experiencing this today with a coworker whom I was wondering why she wasnt speaking with me and made it into something I did. But I did not say anything, I just asked how her day was going and she said she didnt feel well and was coming down with something her son had. There it is. I tend to take stuff to the nth degree in my mind and get all worked up over it.
I just wanted to say that I saw your huffpost piece, you did really well more than the therapist I thought.
This is my biggest issue! I am a co-dependent people pleaser. I love what you had to write Natalie, but my question for you is… how do we get over this? How do we change? I am so sensitive to absolutely everything.. I don’t want to live like this anymore.
Any book recommendations on this topic?
Brigitte, i too can be a bit of a people pleaser at times but am slowly getting out of the habit as its so unhealthy.This came about mostly from being in a 2 yr relationship with a recovering addict. I came across a book by Melodie Beattie called codependent no more.It does speak alot about addicts and your relationships with them but i did find it helpful as it talks about what it is and how to stop worrying about what others think and start taking care of you..Another one is called shift happens by Robert Holden.And of course Mr unavailable and the fall back girl..Hand on my heart, these three books have saved me these past 7 months.
Melody Beattie, and her books, are a great source of information. She has the “Codependent No More” and her latest book is “The New Codependent”. Excellent books.
What if someone is mad about something that has nothing to do with you and is having issues about something else, but they end up being rude and snapping at you without apology because of their foul mood?
After reading my own comment, I guess it became obvious to me to do as Nat suggested and just ask, “Are you okay?” It’s the boundary thing, this is where I end up getting mixed up and in trouble. So,because they are having a bad time, bad day, or are in a crisis, do you give them a little more leeway for being rude to you?
Hi Selkie,
You bring up some good quesitons. Everyone is going to have bad days where we don’t want to be and aren’t the most polite of people. But that doesn’t give us all the right to outright abuse one another. If someone is consistently taking out their issues on you that you have nothing to do with, that isn’t right, and you should question the behavior and react according to your boundaries and values. Of course we can be there if a friend needs to vent, or take a bit more of the brunt from someone having a bad day, but it shoulnd’t be something we habitually put up with. And every scenario is different. Who is being rude to you, do they address it later and apologize? Do they acknowledge your feelings if you bring up the behavior at some point? If we were all allowed to just be rude to everyone when we were having bad days, I’d be rude to everyone right now! haha! But as tough as a time as i’m having, it’s not my sisters or my friends or my parents fault that I fell in with an AC and am now dealing with a swarm of grief and emotions. I can’t just be a jerk to them all day everyday. You don’t have to be anyone’s punching bag. Give as much leeway as you feel comfortable with, if any, and if the situation calls for it.
NCC,
“If we were all allowed to just be rude to everyone when we were having bad days, I’d be rude to everyone right now! haha!”
Thanks sweets, you made me laugh out loud with that. You brought up some very good points. It’s the people pleaser in me, afraid to ruffle feathers sometimes at the expense of my own. Life just keeps making us learn, no rest for the weary! Lol.
Selkie,i come across this a far bit with my ex we work together and hes a recovering addict of both drugs and alchol. He does not have the social skills or the brain capactiy to understand his own behaviour let alone what it does to other people.I have just recently experienced him being incredibly rude to me..Now hes the one who left me for someone else and moved in with her within a month or so..so if anyone wants to be slightly annoyed it should be me.However hes mad at me or whatever else it could be.I just know that some people dont cope at all well when things are bad and their personality or moods whatever, just is not very nice.So you just have to write it off and walk away.Thats what i have learned..And as Nat says all the time Its not always about you.As much as we think it is.
Brigitte,
You might want to read Your Erroneous Zones, by Wayne Dyer. It’s old, but good.
Brigitte,
I struggled with this too in the past. Boundary-work with the help of a good therapist worked wonders. Once I learned that I’m only responsible for my behavior and feelings and others are responsible for theirs, that knowledge created a fence between me and the other person.
It’s hard to explain how to apply this knowledge…At first, it started with a self-reminder, followed by a change of behavior: I would assume the problem was me, would then consciously remind myself that it might not be. So instead of reacting defensively, I would ask as Natalie suggested, “Are you ok?” This gives the person space to open up or not. The more I created that space for the person, the more I learned that I had nothing to do with what was bothering the person most of the time. Hence, with all those accumulated examples of the problem not being me, my mind no longer jumps to that conclusion most of the time.
If you grew up with caregivers who dodged responsibility and/or made you feel responsible for their feelings and behaviors then this will take time and work to undo all those lies but you can re-train your brain to think differently. 😉
Hi Brigitte,
“Co-Dependence: The Dance of Wounded Souls” is a website and I believe a book/audio book series by Robert Burney. I havne’t read all of it, but the fundamental ideas about co-dependency, what it looks like and how to heal, really spoke to me. He has an amazing publication called “Toxic Love” that you MUST Google. For me anyway, everything on there about what healthy love means vs what happens in toxic love couldn’t be more right on. For example he writes, “Love: Development of Self First priority. Toxic Love: Obsession with relationship.” Also “Love: Cycle of comfort and contentment. Toxic Love: Cycle of pain and despair.” That right there is the only kind of “love” I have ever been in with a man. I want to heal, I want to recognize my part in that so I don’t repeat it.
Hope this helps. xo
Brigitte, I will recommend you to read a book “The Chimp Paradox” by Dr Steve Peters, it is life changing book, trust me:)
Brigitte
I find books interesting to read but hard to apply.
I used to do this a little too, but age and experience does definitely help.
But what really helped was to say to myself “Trust yourself” when stressed, when people-pleasing, when in conflict. My better, more objective, humane self came out every time, naturally
Like Nike: just do it.
You won’t get it right the first time, but it’s a start!
Brigitte:
You could read Women who love too much by Robin Norwood, it´s one of the classics for female codependents.
On the other hand, when I’m not overreacting I also have very good gut feelings, and there’s been many times (maybe more since I’ve been living abroad and mixing with more people; many of the regions I stayed had negative economic or politcal situations going on) where I tried to tell myself that everything was okay and it wasn’t to do with me, and then it actually was since I’d encountered some not very nice person, such as at work, who was planning to do something emotionally hurtful to me.
So what I mean is, it is often hard to tell the difference, if one is both sensitive and perceptive, between something imagined and something real that we are picking up on. Any ideas of how one can do that? And how to deal with it?
Oh, and that brings me to another point: when I met guys at the university before going abroad who were not serious and they’d start acting “off”, and although I’d tried to tell myself that I was overreacting it would turn out something really was wrong and potentially very hurtful, which is something you talk about a lot anyway, listening to one’s vibes where men are concerned. I think female vibes are usually good in this area and mine area really good, yet we know that if we are perceptive we also have the ability to overreact, and if we are less experienced we can’t tell the difference…
So how does one know the difference and protect oneself?
Hi Larissa,
You speak about my VERY same questions on “gut feelings” vs “i’m too jumpy and assume everyone is mad at me.” I just posted something below that you might find helpful? I think that a gut feeling that someone is mad at you is most certainly valid. Usually at that point I have found, I can think of a valid reason that person might be upset with me. All you can then do is ask. It gets iffy when we assume that EVERY single one of someones lack of what we might see as positive attention or reactions to us is a result of US, or our FAULT in some way. This just isn’t possible. People can be jerks to us but simply because they are having a bad day. It’s on that person to hopefully recognize and not continue that behavior and make amends, but we all know this doesn’t always happen, and probably even more difficult to find at work. Anyway, not to get off tangent..but back to gut feelings. I mention in my post that I had a gut feeling the last AC was slimey and shady, but instead of listening to that, I stayed and was treated in a way I feel shame for now, because I let my emotions get past the point of just bailing before it became me asking “what did i do to cause this? If I was prettier he wouldn’t have cheated on me. I must have done something.” These aren’t rational thoughts, no one has the power to MAKE someone a cheat. Do you see how this differs from yes, if you throw dirt in someones face, they will probably be mad at you. But if a bad boyfriend is a bad boyfriend, or co-worker is aggressive and a finger pointer or is having a personal issue, it’s not US. WE didn’t DO anything.
If someone is mad at me, does it matter? Unless it’s my immediate boss I don’t care.
Yes, it took a while to get to this stage. Yes, I am happier for it.
We only have to protect ourselves if they have the power to lose us our jobs or to rape or attack us. Otherwise, don’t engage, what can they do?
PS and the bonus is – it annoys them, ha!
“PS and the bonus is – it annoys them, ha!”
Love this Grace. Your right, what can they do? Stay mad while you get on with your life.
PS Grace, can I borrow your brain?
selkie
Thanks but I learned this from watching someone else in action. She has very firm boundaries about what she does and doesn’t do. (I think it’s a mild case of OCD). I’ve seen her stand up to people higher up than her. I’ve seen her get them mad. And I’ve seen her walk away from it without a second thought. She did it to me!
She’s one of the happiest people I know. I figured I could learn from her.
What about the bf? If he was mad at you, you’d care, yes?
I guess the wider discussion is that choosing emotionally available people would mean that they would tell you if they are mad. They wouldn’t make you guess.
When one is the type to make it all about us, that can suit some ACs very well: they know that we will be worried and anxious if they even hint that they are displeased.
I have made some gains in this area – i.e. not assuming that my colleagues are secretly pissed off at my performance without telling me – why not imagine the opposite, that they are pleased, if one is going to spend energy imagining what we can’t know? It has lightened up my anxiety around work.
Sometimes, when I start on the worry, I hear your voice, grace: “He doesn’t DO anxiety.” “I don’t do anxiety anymore.”
Natalie,
Very good post! When I was with the last assclown, he was very focused on what others in and out of the office were “saying” about him or thought about his life. Given his overblown, disordered sense of entitlement, this makes sense now, but at the time it stumped me and I would say to him, “WOW, asshat! not everything is ABOUT YOU! Do you REALLY think these people are thinking about YOU and YOUR life 24/7? They don’t, they’re up into their OWN lives and their OWN thoughts”.
Because he was pathological, he just couldn’t imagine that it wasn’t about him, but it’s true and I keep this in mind too. Half the things that I think people are thinking, saying or projecting to me have NOTHING to do with me. I have adopted the attitude of DETACHMENT from assumptions in attitudes, behaviors and words. If it’s about me, I figure I will hear about it. If it is not, and I’m feeling like it is, I WILL ask if everything is alright.
I’ve worked really hard on my assumptions. I’m not there yet, but I’ve made a huge amount of progress in this.
Thanks for the post!
i have a colleague who takes everything personally and whose primary reaction to everything seems to be anger. it drives me crazy and makes me even more aware of how i can assume someone else’s behavior/reaction is about me and how toxic that is. she has more than once gotten mad at me because, in her view, i ran hot and cold, completely forgetting that:
– i was just back to work after recovering from major surgery
– it was a very busy time at work
– i have crises going on in my family all the time
it was as if i couldn’t even walk down the hall right without her taking it personally. and she so clearly feels this sense of entitlement as to how i should behave toward her.
now, i’m not denying that maybe i was inconstant. but please see the above reasons, they’re good ones.
when we assume something in this way, we are actually denying the other person’s humanity – i’m not allowed to be tired, in pain, busy, or preoccupied as far as she is concerned. because its all about her. and it kills all sense of comfort – now i’m not natural around her at all, i feel entirely fake because i’m always gauging her reactions and exerting no further effort than to ensure i’m not pissing her off. at work. and this is a woman in her 50s.
this is an extreme example, but its not too far off. if i am honest about how i was in a previous version of myself when i was in her shoes, it was sort of the same to some degree: insecure; angry; entitled.
if we are truly worried we have done something wrong, it is so much better to just gently, gently, check rather than assuming or accusing. i totally, absolutely get it now.
OMG, I just had a flashback to an extreme example of someone who made everything about her at work. She was a mean bitter shrew of a person, who was so obvious about it that you couldn’t take it personally thankfully. The event was that one day someone was stapling some papers on the other side of the office, she stormed up to them and accused them of doing it just to annoy her… lol, she was so outrageous in these kinds of displays and alienated EVERYONE, but the company owners didn’t see the problem with her despite how many people tried to talk to them about it as she behaved while they were around and sucked up to them constantly…. so, in the end, healthy minded people quickly moved on and that company has a steady flow of people moving through it, and the only people who stay are equally unhealthy in their own way. I’m so happy not to be immersed in that toxic environment anymore.
I did have a graduate advisor who would randomly yell at you simply because he was stressed and you just happened to be in the room. Of course, that had everything to do with him and little to do with me. AC has been reacting with total hostility towards me the past month. I gave a presentation about this 5 million dollar center I am trying to get going and he glared at me the whole time. At one time we worked on this together and he was one of many who dropped the ball leaving yours truly as the sole faculty on the project so his anger is kinda all about him. Often someone elses issues make them act in hostile/critical/angry ways.
So I have a question.
I have this problem where I think someone’s mad at me and go down the list of what I could’ve possibly done to them because I over-intellectualize (I believe their actions are an “effect” of something I caused.) I know this is another one of those inverse ego deals but what if I noticed they only act “mad” in front or to me but with other people they somehow composed their emotions enough to not lash out on them?
This is a VERY common pattern I found in my relationships (friends & romantic of both sexes). I somehow get the brunt of someone’s “true colors” while everyone else literally have never seen that side of them before and I must be lying. Can someone break this down to me?
My take on this would be potentially they have picked up on an insecurity of yours, that they probably don’t like in themselves, that allows them to ‘safely’ vent their frustrations on you – and you take it. It’s a form of bullying, and the only way to combat it is to confront the behaviour. And for yourself, find and fix that broken window. I had to do this at work recently with someone who threw a demeaning comment at me in passing, like a drive by shot, I marched up to him told him ‘if you don’t like how I’m doing something just tell me, you don’t have to be an asshole about it’, he was affronted, and told me to ‘watch my mouth’, but I do know he is an asshole, so expected as much, and didn’t take it further as it is useless arguing with an idiot who won’t take responsibility. But the end result was that he no longer tries to throw crap in my direction as now he knows I won’t stand for it.
I had the same problem for three months with one of my colleagues. She used to be very inpatient with me, and it made me upset. One day I got so fed up to listen her “little put downs”, I just confronted her by saying: “IF I irritate you that much, please do not talk to me at all, OK?!! “…She was shocked as she did not realised that she made me feel miserable, her tone of voice changed immediately for good.
I am so fed up to please people, if ever someone upsets me again, I will confront them, as I do not want to think too much about someone who is not my close friend or relative. I am glad I am changing now, thanks to BR and my favourite book “The Chimp Paradox”!
Interesting. I think they know what they’re doing for the most part they just don’t see a problem with it until the person they try the behavior with does, it seems.
Thanks for mentioning that book I read just the preview and that alone proved to be very helpful.
You welcome Jazzy!
You are right, my colleague knew what she was doing…She never talk to other people the way she talked to me!!! I put her in “her place” and I will never allow her or anyone else to treat me without respect:)
I agree, congrats!
I must say I don’t think “exploding” on someone is always a bad thing. Sometimes exploding doesn’t mean saying unnecessary mean things but it means saying the real truth of the situation that was restrained under the cloak of trying to “please”.
Little Star,
Good for you!!!!
I taught myself to think like that – if they have an issue they will raise it with me because of my overactive “blame thyroid” (love that Nat) but guess what happened, my entire family-in-law turned on me (by disconnecting with me on facebook).
It totally blew me out of the water because they had been my only family for 20 years. Nobody bothered to ask me if I was infact leaving my husband as was the rumour going around. I suffered depression for 2 years & now I find it hard not to be paranoid.
I’m dealing with exactly this atm in a friendship. This person is not contacting me, at all. So I, am simply respecting that, & not contacting them either. I’m quite aware they probably see me as ‘too needy’ atm & that this is partly why they are not contacting me. (They have not used those exact words, but when I invited them to an event, which would be helpful to THEM, they communicated something which clearly made it obvious their thinking was totally awry. I gently set them straight as to my motivation for the invite & moved forward, lol ) So now, when I see her I say hello but just don’t contact her. She hadn’t replied to playful excited text, where I’d in fact been having a whale of a time & after a chance encounter, finally replied & apologised & stated, ‘I’m sorry I haven’t replied, I’ve been going through a really difficult time’. The thing is she is assuming I am too, when although in fact things are not easy here, I’ve had a lot of good news lately & it’s been unfortunate (for her) not to be able to share my joy & playfulness (not to mention strength) with her. I simply replied that yes, I HAVE been having lots of FUN & that I’m sorry to hear she is having a rough time & am here to talk to if she needs a friend. This woman deliberately befriended me in the first instance seeking a mentor, then when I declined that role due to illness, somehow tried to turn our friendship around to being my mentor. What she doesn’t realise is that she apart
from simple friendship she has nothing to offer me in that sense as her life & beliefs are not those I wish to emulate. She’s gained & emulated a lot from my life despite me declining a.mentoring role to her anyway. I think this space period will return the balance here. This woman as kind as she is she is, is really quite fragile & unbalanced – this that I am not & have never been. I think it will do her some good to learn she is not to centre of my universe. lol. I suspect she has undiagnosed bi polar disorder & truth be told I’m a little relieved to have taken this step back from her. Certainly it is not about me. Of that I am certain. I am always wary of ppl who befriend others, quickly & intensely in times of illness & vulnerability & that is what happened here. As I slowly but surely return back to full strength I suspect she will naturally fall away from my inner circle. Perhaps not a bad thing. Just never was sure of her motives. All a bit strange….
Lordy, Lordy, Lordy! Do I ever do this. Blame myself when someone isn’t acting the way they usually are around me. Never once believing that they may be going through something and making it about me and how I’m feeling at that very moment, which if I delve deeper into my own issues is feelings of abandonment and insecurity.
And rather than ask them what’s going on I do the ever so ‘polite thing’ and say to myself, “They’ll tell me when they are good and ready” and then proceed to be passive aggressive feeling spited because they haven’t shared what’s made them change when I want them to.
It’s so simple by one question. “How are you?”
I’m trying, but how the heck do I know when to ask and when to say, ‘leave it be’ and actually mean it. Oy!
Mike,
Everything you wrote is me as well. I came up once with a “joke” about how I feel around men in general when it comes to my lack of self esteem and insecurities. I would say, “I’m only as good as their last compliment.” Ha ha right? But the bitch of it is…I honestly feel/felt that way! That’s the UNhealthy me. What is so difficult to understand is…the HEALTHY me did ask when I felt things were different with the AC (before I knew what an AC does and is!) things like, “Do you see other women other than me?” I tried not to attack or accuse, I simply wanted to know so I could make a choice for myself to stay or leave. When I was repeatedly told no, and made to feel bad about myself for suggesting such a thing, then only to find out I was RIGHT but was being lied to, the balance of “don’t assume everything is about you” and “my gut feeling was SPOT on and I should have listened!” is so comprimised. I guess what I’m trying to take away from this post is that I was right, he WAS cheating, but it wasn’t because of something I DID! He did turn cold and I did think he was mad at me, but I hadn’t done ANYTHING! In a healthy relationship, someone will be honest when I ask them questions, and their consistant good treatment of me won’t leave me guessing about how they feel about me. That way, if they have a bad day and aren’t in the greatest of moods, I won’t jump to, “oh it must be because I don’t look as pretty as I did yesterday or it must be because I’m not being serving and attentive enough today and I have too many needs.” What’s funny too is that just like when I was young in age, as in a child, I had this awesome sense of self and what I would and wouln’t put up with. But as i got older, the opinions of others of who I was in terms of looks, personality, etc., my insecurities eroded away at that. Just as in when my relationships with men are young, I feel ready to stay true to myself and never jump on or blame someone but instead make realistic and rational attempts to find out if it’s a good match. But as the relationship ages, I feel I succomb to my insecurities and the ACs only play that to their advantage. Then I’m left with the memories of my humiliating behavior trying to get them to tell me what I’ve done wrong and please treat me better. UGH.
This made me think about the flip side, too. I think a lot of issues I had with the ex AC was because he made everything I did about him… Didn’t hear my phone? I must be angry with him if I didn’t answer, Lost in my thoughts, I’m ignoring him on purpose, etc. My mom used to say with humor and consternation, “For such a big man, he has very delicate little feelings, doesn’t he?”
This post is definitely good food for thought to understand the way others interpret our actions as well.
I relate to this very much. I personalize everything! It gets exhausting and I want to stop. Sometimes I catch myself, but sometimes I am already triggered before I know it’s happening.
This is something I also struggle with, and with all of the work I’m trying to do on myself these days, after leaving the AC and going NC for good just over a month ago, my lifelong struggle of worrying I’m not pleasing everyone, that I upset people with my perceived constant inadequicies, has been something I’ve had to look at, as it’s not suiting me anymore if I want to be happy in my own skin and in my life.
I grew up with an EUM father who blew hot and cold. I never knew where I stood, and when things went bad in his day/life…I was usually at the receiving end of his blame. I wasn’t doing something right…and I was taught I probably never would. I was a constant dissapointment, yet if he was having a good day, or was drunk, I was a great kid.
I am trying to take responsibility for how this has affected my adult life and relationships. It has been really tough this last month. Many here on BR have mentioned that after going NC with an AC/EUM, they start to realize how many other relationships in their lives are not mutually fulfilling, this includes friendships and family relationships. This is sad…and is happening to me in full force.
My best friend…we go back to kindergarten and we are now in our 30s. She had been through all of my crappy romantic relationships, and this last one I could feel the effects taking a serious and lasting toll on us. I knew if I stayed with HIM, i would lose her. I wasn’t willing to let that happen. Part of why I left. So when I moved back “home” away from him, I felt that I needed to honestly confront the elephant in the room with her. I felt she was upset with me. She was not calling, and not returning my calls and texts. I did stop however and remember that she was going through some rough stuff too. Her sisters boyfriend had just passed away at the age of 27. Her life certainly does not revolve around me, and her actions are not all about me. I didn’t want to come off as if I was making everything about me and my worries, when again i knew she was going through hard times. I offered to be there for her should she need a shoulder to cry on, any help with anything etc. With still no response, I admit my feelings were hurt, but again decided to find the right moment to talk about us. When her sisters BF passed away, I was still with the AC. I was living a nightmare of my own making having gone back to a lying, cheating, cold, careless monster. She called me up one night I was at home with him and asked if I would come visit. She had been drinking, but I was so happy she finally was reaching out for me. She is so often the one wanting to “take care” of people but rarely opens up about herself or asks for help. But anyway, what do I do? I tell her I can’t come over that night but will soon. I was trapped in fear my BF would cheat on me if I ever left to do anything that wasn’t with him. SICK. So I openly asked my friend, “Are you upset with me about the night I did not come over?” She admitted yes, she was. I was so happy she was being honest, and certainly she has a right to her boundaries. I told her I was so sorry, and honestly told her that part of my addiction to this awful man was making bad choices and not being the friend I wanted to be. Sort of like the 12 steps of AA and apologizing to people! Super long story short (sorry!) I thought the dialogue would help us move on, but she has gone back to not answering my calls or texts, and makes no effort to communicate or see one another. What I am having trouble with is that she tells me everything is fine, and I have made sure to only be asking first off, as NML says, “Is everything OK?” When i’m told that everything IS ok, all I feel I can do is trust that, and go on with my life. I’m at the point where I feel I have to set up my boundaries and decide if this friendship is working for me. I have to go on with my life rather than being sad or wondering when or if she will phone. Just like with a man and love, I can’t force someone to be in my life. I feel like this is yet another person I have to let go of even though I love her dearly and always will…but this relationship house cleaning is so hard. But I just can’t look to people to fill my voids anymore.
NCC, I have exactly the same story going on – I was very ill earlier this year with anxiety caused by being with an AC for 3 years. My friend was also going through a bad time in her marriage and I knew her thinking wasn’t straight. I asked her for help at the time but she ignored me, I badly needed company but she didn’t call me and on top of that she told mutual friends she was angry with me as I was making it up. When I told her how upset I was she got angry and said I had no business being upset and she had cared for me (she hadn’t). I knew she was havign a hrd time so I apologised and said I might not have been thinking straight too. Despite this she has not contacted me again. A few texts and when we have seen each other we have been frosty. I have to let it go. I set a boundary and she didn’t like it. For most of my friends they are my friends because I am there for them – now I am putting me first and a lot don’t like it. Relationship house cleaning.Hurts but necessary I think.
Great article! I’ve always heard it said that when you assume something you make an ASS out of U and ME.
So true @recoveringloveaddict 🙂 It’s all too familiar a theme that’s why you just have to step back and take people at their word if they say they have an issue at home but don’t want to talk about it. I think it’s why a lot of guys in the work environments I’ve known fall out less over issues like this… because if someone tells them “don’t worry about it” they take that to mean “don’t worry about it” and get on with just having some banter. I quite admire them for that given I’m a sensitive soul and always am wandering if there’s something we should help the person with, etc.
Great post Natalie,
Love
Grace
Jazzy… I’m a bit over working out other ppl’s ‘issues’ & if it’s not up front readable, in some cases, (such as maybe the one you mention), have come to the conclusion, that some ppl are just a**holes… & that their behaviour reflects only on themselves. High level willful destructive manipulation, which others can’t & don’t see, is also indicative (in some cases) of psychopathy…so beware. Such ppl do untold damage. They will come up smelling of roses while you, if targeted, will be left a shivering traumatised mess! T 🙂
Miskwa. Be careful with this person who was on the big project with you and dropped the ball. Not to encourage your paranoia but keep your antennae up. Some people can inflict their insecurities in very hurtful ways. Jealousy is one. You are doing something big, which, perhaps he can only dream about. Hopefully this individual will not try to sabotage your efforts. You will get nowhere asking a person like this “What’s wrong? Are you okay?” Just be aware. Good luck.
I agree but then we shouldn’t overestimate those people’s power. Miskwa, if I was in your place I would just try to blank him out and proceed as if nothing happened. The most important thing is to believe in your project YOURSELF. You sound ace. I think you have every reason to be confident!
Mind you, toxic people can sometimes thwart ambitious projects if too many people are too gullible (or otherwise susceptible to manipulation). Happened to myself a few times in the past.
Those experiences used to drive me crazy with self-doubt, but ultimately I chose to cut my losses and opt out every time. Luckily, those were just volunteering projects and not jobs. Now those projects are stuck with a toxic person and progress nowhere in sight while I’m exploring greener pastures elsewhere. Their loss, not mine. Moving on may take some effort (and might even involve relocationg physically), but we’re worth it.
Anyway, that should only be your last resort. No need to make a mountain out of a molehill. He might very well be just one toxic, isolated individual with no power whatsoever over the success of your project!
I suffer from this a lot and I am really trying to not to make everything about me – I started a new job just as me and my ex were having issues – he would ignore me and I was agonise what I had said and done and even apologise with no idea what I was apologising for! My new boss is also a dreadful woman whose moods change on a daily basis (literally) the whole mood of the team is affected by how she behaves and you feel like you are treading on egg shells. I used to blame myself thinking that I must be doing something wrong, I must be irritating and thus causing this. I no longer feel this waym the ex boyfriend and the boss have their own issues and this behaviour is theirs and theirs alone – it has nothing what so ever to do with me – I have to force myself to stop trying to please them and be this perfect girlfriend or employee just so they treat me with respect – they are sidrespectful people and my behaviour will not change that
can anyone please tel me..
i m in NC to my bf from lat 50 days..
yesterday we happened to come across in the morning on our way to offices..
in the evening i was going out to the grocery shop and i noticed him coming after him..evevtuyally he did turn back when i saw that i have seen him..
why did he do that??
also..because of this incident..thw whole day today..
i am thinking what if after some years..he is in a better position that i would me..
he will be in good financial and marital position..
he is happy with his partner..with his kids..
can anyone please tell me..how do i stop thinking about this…!!
I just want to add that I have been working on this issue a lot. Something going on about my mum neglecting me and me assuming it was always soemthing I had done – it even being easier to admit it was me to assuage my family of any blame…no idea why I would do that yet though. I carried that pattern through to adulthood – let people off bad treatment of me, let them tell me it was me when it wasn’t – its caused a lot of damage.
Something my counsellor said though has been really useful. Some people like to give you their bags. Imagine people carrying round their issues and hurts in shopping bags and they are just looking for someone to give them to. I was always willing to carry other people’s bags as well as my own – when I finally couldn’t do it anymore. Now I picture them trying to give me their bags whenever they get angry with me and I feel its unjustified. I take a step back, ask myself if its true what they are saying and if, with all my heart, I can’t find that truth, I give them their bag back – here it’s yours, not mine.
i’ve known my current boss for some years. When she got promoted recently, everything changed. She’s no longer friendly – even saying hello is beyond her. I thought it was something I did or didn’t do. Or said or didn’t say.
I spent weeks thinking about it until I realise it’s not me. The issue is with her. That realisation only came to light when my colleagues started asking what was wrong with her. Guess she became Da Boss who does not mingle with the likes of us. She really does not.
“It’s important to talk rationally to you to change that default setting of assuming that it’s you and then running with it. I still get that feeling sometimes like “Oh-oh…” as if someone is mad at me for forgetting to do chores or homework then a voice chimes in and reminds me that I’m a grownup now!”
Yeah… this about sums me up. It’s a constant challenge, something that I must make myself more conscious of and combat it quicker. But I’m getting “there”.
I’m totally “guilty” of this too! I often find that I’m blaming myself and looking for what I’ve done wrong when something isn’t going right in a relationship. I often replay scenarios in my mind of situations where I could have reacted differently! I guess it’s sometimes easier to place blame on yourself than to confront the other person, especially if that person is someone you love.
Maya. Your boss may have climbed the ladder and reached the top but if she should fall off, it’s a longer way down, past all those that she has stepped on/over. The universe will take care of her.
Not to worry.
Thank you for your comment.I especially like the part about the universe 🙂
But What about when you do this in your relationships. ie ” why isn’t he calling me, he must be mad at me” “why isn’t he texting me back is he ignoring me, what did I do?” Then to find out ” he was babysitting his nephew” or “he was at a Dr’s appt” etc. How do you get yourself to stop thinking that way??
Something I’ve learned recently (with the help of BR) is that when one grows up in a home where there is no communication, one is left to assume.
When someone is angry or upset, and we’re not allowed to ask what is wrong (e.g. if we do we will be ignored, yelled at, or told that “nothing” is wrong when something clearly is) the only thing we can do is try to figure out what the problem is on our own. It’s easy to see how this translates to making someone else’s behaviour all about us.
This rings true for me too. I remember so much tension and strife in my family environment, but nobody talked. There was alot of passive aggression on the parts of both my parents whether they were mad at me or not, so I took everything as mine and internalized. I can look back and see the pain inside the child I was at all the tension and abuse around me.
Oh, and if I was noticed or said anything was running the risk of whatever was wrong to be taken out or vented on me.
Good point. An environment like that, during your upbringing, does make a permanent impression that can’t be rubbed off.
My extended family were obsessed with gossip about ‘who’s not talking to whom’. It was the 1970s/80s version of constant rounds of friending and de-friending people. All my rellies kept a running tally over cups of coffee about which one of them was or wasn’t talking to whichever other of them. If you weren’t being talked to by someone, they were shunning you. And you could shun someone too, and everyone would know. And to us kids, no explanation was ever given as to why this would happen. They were just oblique references to someone being upset at someone else for saying something or doing something they didn’t like. It was just something adults did, apparently.
“Aunt Eva isn’t talking to Grandma now. What? No she won’t be at Thanksgiving. Because she’s not talking to Grandma. Oh, and Uncle Walter is talking to cousin Joe again, finally, after all that. I don’t know what’s wrong with Aunt Alice. She’s not talking to Uncle Tom any more. She’s talking to Patrick again, though. Who? Paul? No, she’s still not talking to Paul. Paul is out of the picture. Alice said Paul is out of the picture. They stopped talking a long time ago. And Grandma isn’t talking to Paul either.”
It was of course the time of the Cold War.
I’ve come to the same conclusion. When you don’t talk about stuff in your family, you’re left to make your own assumptions. And the conclusions you form can be far away from the actual truth! I’ve finally realized this after taking some therapy and discussing my family’s past and the patterns that run in my family. Yep, my family’s notorious for the lack of communication and support and I found this excruciatingly painful after I broke up with my boyfriend because no one would really talk to me at home and give me the support I needed so badly. And why? Because we’ve never been used to “really” talking about personal things to one another! Then you realize you just can’t change them and try to accept them …
Yes, yes, and yes. I am going through these thoughts (“What did I do wrong?”) with a friend of mine, the one I mentioned previously, who has been in contact less these last few months. I thought it coincided with (and was subsequently linked to)the time when I went NC with the AC, our mutual friend. But when I think more about it, we were communicating less frequently even before that. I am not a needy friend, and I encourage my friends to have their lives and other friends (as I do the same), but when communication goes from almost daily to basically nil, I start wondering. She called the other day after weeks of no contact, and when I called her back we had some nice light conversation. No mention of any anger on her part or anything. I want to let it go, but I can’t help but feel hurt over the fact that she wasn’t there for me when I was getting over the AC (whom she knew I had feelings for, and KNEW about him disrespecting me). That sticks in my cap. I will have to talk to her about it at some point, but I’m not even sure that we’ll get that far in our conversation, with the frequency of our communication as of late.
I’ve got a similar thing going on (differing circumstances) but you know what Rev? Some people are not actually worthy of our friendship and show that by their behaviour. I stand WAY back when this happens now. It’s a big “tell’ ( to use Nat’s term) as to something being an issue with THEM not us. We’re just fine. Really. 🙂
i screwed up and was in contact … even asked to get together and he didn’t text back. the blowing hot and cold stuff. right now just posting because i am trying to work through feelings of supposed rejection. ugh.
oh heck he texted AS SOON AS I POSTED THIS. gosh i was just ready to work through this thing, again, and get HOW TO BREAK YOUR ADDICTION TO ANOTHER PERSON. wish i could run away to a sea turtle rehab and stay for a year. blow lots of old inventory out.
p.s. i read that addiction happens when you are feeling trapped and instead of acting on telling someone something of dealing with it directly, people stuff it down with booze or whatnot. the sooner they deal with it directly, the more the addiction subsides. well thanks for listening!
Thanks EllyB
Yep, I will work my damndest to see this center go regardless if I am there to run it or not. Ironically, I am checking out the possibilities/realities of leaving here. Unfortunately, it looks as though I won’t get nearly enough for my house to even pay off the mortgage let alone buy a place elsewhere. Blasted recession. Leaving in order to get away from an AC is probably giving him waay too much power. However, finding a healthy partner while living here is not likely. Means 7.5 more years alone. Btw, I did carry on as though he was not there. Like you, I am now avoiding projects and committees that have a high toxicity factor.
Tinkerbell
My spidey senses are on high alert. I did pay serious attention to his comments because those issues would be his plan of attack. His program used to be a crown jewel of the institution and he, a narc, does not wish to be upstaged, especially by a chick he pursued, lied to, and dumped in a very humiliating way. He wants me gone and here I go getting funding, travelling, giving talks etc. Twas funny, after I finished lunch today, I was working on some blueprints, and he sits down looks at them automatically assuming this was for the center. He was shocked when I calmly said that the plans were for my OWN greenhouse. All of a sudden he needs to build one too. He can draw up his own @#$% plans.
I have taken this to heart and asked the friend who I felt let me down when I moved, then later forgot to pick me up at the airport when I came for a visit(when she had offered, and I had planned accordingly), then recently has just not returned my phone calls.
Another friend of mine said, is something going on with her?
Well, I was just going to ‘take the hint’ but I suppose it doesn’t hurt to ask. I do tend to assume passive aggressive behaviour before I assume anything else.
Now if you remember my ex-roommate, she WAS passive-aggressive and said she didn’t tell me when she was mad because she didn’t want to be rude! Then when I told her when I was mad – that she had done something, she got very upset, saying it was so upsetting to be told that she is such a bad person. After that, I never knew if she really was mad, because I felt that even if you asked, you’d just get denial.
The thing is, I wouldn’t have anything to pin it on except a gut feeling. Some of her actions, as recounted here earlier this year, suggest that she had little love for me. That whole time was very confusing, as I did feel like she was “mad,” but I felt like she was mad for me having brought up her bad behaviour, so I was ever after constantly trying to behave as though I was “over” having gotten angry at her. I felt like I got punished for voicing my anger.
It was a hell of constantly telling myself that I’ll deal with her if and when she brings up a problem, and if not, I have to not care. She never brought it up, so I had to live in that zone Grace describes, where you know they’re pissed but if they’re not into solving it, then you have to just let them stew.
So glad that’s done! It still rankles!
Ugh.
Oh my I am the queen of this. If someone doesn’t respond to me on fb, through text/phone i freak out and think: what have I done? What didn’t I do that I should have? What is wrong with me? Why don’t they love me??? And then why/ how am I so unlovable??? And finally, “Why the eff am I not good enough??? Shit! This is quite a lot of drama in my head. No it can’t be that they, i dunno, haven’t checked their fb, phone email or whatever. Or god forbid they just haven’t wanted to get back to me. I feel that way sometimes too. Truth is there are some people who don’t warmly respond to me or get back with me and I know it’s all for the better then there are people who I wish I had more contact with that don’t want the same intensity/intimacy and yeah, it hurts, but i respect their position and don’t chase and have hope there are people out there that are compatible with me (and I’m not just referring to romantic situations) and that some day (soon hopefully) I’ll be in a place within myself capable of accepting it. And by it I mean love.
Revolution;
My first thought is that you should not confront your fast fading ‘friend’. From what I read, it could do more harm than good. Your post states that she already knows that he treated you disrespectfully, and she is not reaching out to you. At this point, she is throwing shade and maybe is a better friend to him. If you tell her you are hurt, you are potentially breaking NC if she tells him. She could also be non-reactive to your hurt, or passive aggressively happy if she is not acting in your best interest any longer. Her coldness may be some thing to do with her- she may have a crush on him herself, or she has made mistakes with men (and wants you to make one), she may be bored with life and drama stirring, she may be jealous of your options, or your good decision making, etc. etc. What ever it is, you need to do distance yourself, unfortunately, business as usual. Another romance and friendship gone caput.
It is hard to be a single girl, so much work discovering and flushing, it is exasperating. This site is great for weeding out the people that mean us no good- the EU, shady, disappearing, hot/colds. That is a little bit of restitution for the single-so-long, heart ache of dating. You have some power there. But, it is Only The First Step. Now that you have flushed him (and her?) it is back to square one….
It will be nice to some day be done with all of this, I dunno, bottom feeding of dating world…catalogued here on the blogs. To be happily married out of this predicament, invulnerable to petty games and transient friendships.
That was me in my marraige , i was for ever walking on eggshells. somedays i sounded like a parrot “you okay” on repeat it made things worse . Until i got selfish toward the end and stopped caring . He said he respected me more ? hows that become defiant and they respect you more .Scared of being on ones own if you upset these people and they go away i guess . ive been on my own about 3 months and yes its lonely , but the contrast wasnt good . i need to set my self straight and grow up and a spine . i get along in my own little way . and i will carry on doing so, but ill let life bounce off me and if im on my own so be it . but i wont be so eager to please or pacify or feel uncomfatable .
Magnolia I know what you mean about leaving ppl to stew. I have a friend who does this. He has Aspergers though & I at least sometimes know why. Couldn’t live with it under my roof. He wants to move in (temporarily)! I COULD use the $ but am thinking VERY carefully & preferring other options!
Otherwise, I sometimes think we can drift away from a friendship deliberately (I know I have) & it will be noticed ie not in the sense of being an AC & returning calls ect (that I think is just rude), but just by no longer initiating contact & this does need to be ok. I mean what are we supposed to say to a middle distance friend in this sitch? Call them up & announce we will deliberately no longer be initiating contacting & then list our reasons for this? That to me, that would be unkind & hurtful, to the other party. Of course if I saw the person out in a group setting I would still say hello & be polite, but we need to be able to leave friendships which were perhaps ill suited for us in the first place, behind in a respectful way. At least that’s my take on it. If asked outright was I pulling away & why I would say but the person would need to be prepared to hear the truth, because they may not like what they hear!
Tired good for you. I’ve recently been reminded that we should be concerned about our own happiness first. My sister has been beating herself silly for the past 4 mths because her husband says he’s not happy turns out he’s been having an affair with a married woman the whole time. He has been emotionally abusing her too, making her feel that because she’s a Christian she’s not worthy of him. Bullshit! It all blew up this week when the ow’s husband contacted her. The whole time my sisters been bending over backwards trying to make his azz happy all the while he’s been cheating, while she’s been very unhappy. I poured out as much br on her as I could. This is her husbands problem, she needs to worry only about herself.
i hope she is okay x
Magnolia and others
After my humiliating break up with AC, I had to offload a couple of toxic friends, one whom I suspect is bipolar. Had no emotional energy to care for them and take care of me too. One was openly hypercritical of my career, lifestyle, and values. The other very passive aggressive . They are both mad at me because I wouldn’t give up all that I am doing and help them all the time. Neither of them have jobs and at least one can well afford to hire help. Life is too damned short to waste on toxic folks.
Miskwa, well done that you rid off toxic friends! Sometimes we have to try everything to make a sense of these kind of friendships and if they are NOT working it is time to let them go!
I know that I do this a lot. Both in personal relationships and professional. Problem is, is that I don’t know how to stop and I never truly know for sure if it is me reading things wrong, or reading things correctly or just what is going on.
My partner (of 2 months, still in the early phase) is doing training this week at his job. He went home last night and messaged me that he had had a long day. And then he was quiet. I asked if everything was okay and his response was almost what you had said verbatim. “I will tell you when something is wrong”. I read into that ‘distance’ and -immediately- jumped into the ‘he’s pulling back, everything he’s said over the past 2 months is b.s.’ way of thinking and ended up sending him an email late last night saying that I was going to stay away for a while…that I was hurting…that I had needed him to act more openly…and that I was hurting. Told him I thanked him for the gifts he had given me over the past two months…gifts of joy and the ‘good feelings’. Left it with a “perhaps you can contact me over the next few weeks if you want to talk to me then” type deal…and ended up crying myself to sleep and most of today.
Today is my birthday. And I feel as if I am flipping in and out of past and present. I’m 47 years old and have been married and divorced 3 times. Been going solo for the past 7 years and this is the first time of really opening up for me since my last marriage ended. I dated a little bit over the summer, but sort of ditched them after date 3 or 2 or whatever.
In the ‘quiet’ of my mind, I can still hear my father’s voice..echoed through out time..telling me that I am unlovable, no one will want me, and so on and so forth. My father passed away two years ago and before he went, he did manage to tell me that he was proud of me, that he was sorry for all of the things he said…yet, those tapes from ever so long ago; still seem so very loud today.
I don’t know how to change them, to erase them so that my ‘instant’ reaction to anything remotely negative isn’t always so defensive because now, it is the defensiveness which is hurting me so much today. Some days, it is easier even at work..and I can relax and just do my job and feel confident. Yet other days, it is as if those tapes over-shadow all that is said or presented to me and I hate it.
I wish that I could recognize those tapes as ‘past’ and hit ‘delete’ on them so much quicker than I do. I wish that I wasn’t so insecure and could feel confident in my good traits…because I do have many. But, times like now…they seem so loud and clear and it’s a huge inner battle just to go on.
RuthC
I don’t know the backstory but going by this comment alone I wouldn’t dump someone for being tired and quiet.
Also, never, never, never have this type of “conversation” via email or msg. Face to face is best, then phone.
If you think it’s worth it (I can’t tell) then call him and meet up with him.
Finally, it is not a man’s job to make up for your parents’ lack. Do it yourself. It’s better than someone stepping in and doing it for you. Because that’s still feeding the dynamic of wanting external approval. All the external approval in the world won’t make you feel better about yourself. And, ironically, if you do get it you won’t like it because you don’t think you desrve it.
Thanks Teach 😉 and Anony,
I’m in the midst of “events” unfolding that are directly showing me (as I’ve had ZERO involvement in them) what is going on with my estranged friend. She is trying to help the AC. (Again, we were all mutual friends at one point, and I met him through her and her husband a couple of years ago. They’ve both been in the process of trying to “help” him get over his anxiety issues, addiction, etc. for a few years now, even before I entered the picture.) He’s still dealing with the same issues he’s been dealing with these past few years, despite their “help” (read: enabling). The problem is that my friend may be getting too close to him right now. Now don’t get me wrong–I really don’t think they are having a physical relationship. But I do think that it’s in the “emotional intimacy” territory. Other people recently have been telling me that they’ve been around them and it’s a little weird, how much attention she heaps on the AC. I know what they’re talking about, as I’ve experienced it too when I was around them. It’s not a seduction, but more like a “big sister” vibe, her trying to nurture him but inappropriately (she’s married). And, of course, in spending all her energy on trying to help/save HIM, she’s shown some selfishness (I wouldn’t call it outright malice, but definitely selfishness) by not being there for ME when I needed her as my friend to sort through everything after I went NC with him (as he was treating me poorly). So there you go. The perfect illustration of me tossing and turning at night, wondering what I did wrong and why she was politely “shining” me whenever I would try to contact her. Lo and behold, it wasn’t about me at all. It’s her own stuff. But it does hurt to be kicked to the curb due to the selfishness of someone close to you. When she called the other day and we had our short conversation, she even sounded a little guilty. Even though I was just being myself and being loving and kind and keeping it light. That shows me that she’s aware of what she’s doing and how it must affect me.
You’re right, Teach. It’s not about us at all. I’m just gonna leave it alone for now. I still have love for her as she’s never been rude or disrespectful or shown that she hasn’t had my back. Until this. Which is pretty big, I’d say. But still, I’m willing to forgive and move on, but not until we’ve ironed some things out. Until then, I’m at peace with myself and I am working on forgiving her. She’s not an evil person. She’s just human like the rest of us. But, like, the rest of us, that comes with consequences. Which might be that I won’t trust her to be in my close circle anymore.
Yes Rev. You CAN’T really trust trust her to be in yr very close inner close circle anymore because she’s now BETRAYING your friendship, & being totally DISLOYAL. The stuff about how kind she’s always been etc is your head trying to come to terms with this. It ‘jars’ doesn’t it? Just like it does when we get sucker punched by an EU or AC. Notice her guilt? She knows damned well she’s doing & has done the totally wrong thing by you. That isn’t & hasn’t stopped her though!
The RIGHT thing for her to have done here would have been to to let HER HUSBAND (if anyone) deal with yr ex AC so that she could remain loyal & supportive of YOU. Also, yr friends emotional intimacy with yr ex AC is TOTALLY INAPPROPRIATE. I’m surprised her husband puts up with it. This tells me she’s likely a very skilled manipulator (just giving you objective feedback here).
Also, don’t buy the ‘big sis’ vibe she gives off toward yr ex AC. If his red flag issues (addiction esp) weren’t there & she WASN’T married I suspect she’d be all over him like a rash & want him for herself.
Tho is a little sad for you Rev, & I get that, this experience has taken the rose colored glasses off re this woman & caused you to see her as more human & fallible & that is a blessing. She’s certainly not what & who you thought she was in the past. Consider yourself most fortunate to have learned this NOW before the stakes were any HIGHER for you. What if these were,your own MARITAL troubles she was being disloyal over? How would you have felt then? Yikes! xx
Teachable is totally correct on all points. Revolution, looking back, can you see how she came at you and your ex like a caring ‘big sister’ type? Her actions didn’t match the words, did they? You both presumed she was ‘safe’ because she is happily married and (you thought) secure and looking out for her friends. WRONG! At this point, she doesn’t have a healthy attachment to any one- being a backstabbing friend to you, making her husband look like an idiot, and trying to forge a shady lady relationship with your ex. Sounds like she triangulates and manipulates with ease. She got subtle control by gaining your trust so she could do her stealth information gathering. Then, she used it to get into your exes head – and push you out? She was interested and supportive acting to get closer to you-so she could take a better swing. Her (sycophant) husband might now suspect some thing, and she was calling you to see how much you had guessed. She probably hung up satisfied (thinking that she’s getting away with it) because the conversation was superficial and breezy. Just stay away from her. Not all ACs are good looking men. These insecure/predatory Judas types can come at you disguised as middle age ex hipsters, frumpy housewives, tattooed bikers, kindergarten teachers, PhD professors, brooding loners, pot smoking hippies, etc. Hold your head high for walking away from this bad situation. You are the only person who operated above board with honesty and respect. You will get better and better at spotting these types, they are every where! Fade this group. They will figure out you KNOW.
You’re right about everything, Teach. And though I don’t think she will ever be as close as she was to me, I would like to come to a place of forgiveness and love towards her. Even God differentiates between willfulness and weakness. I will work towards that same goal (forgiveness) as I want peace with her. But that doesn’t mean that I will be a bosom friend to her anymore. It’s really heartbreaking. I can’t even begin to describe my feelings right now. Thanks for listening.
You are right. It is not always about us. People may be going through things and it has nothing to do with us yet we automatically think they are mad with us.
I do have a question though. I was seeing a guy on and off for a while. Anyway, it went no where as he was emotionally unavailable and I needed more than that. We decided to stay friends.
Anyway to cut a long story short, my Dad was diagnosed with terminal cancer. I wanted to take a family portrait with my dad, mum and brothers before dad started radiotherapy and chemo. I wanted to take Dad to one of his favourite beaches which has no people and take the photo. I asked Mr Emotionally Unavailable if he would show me how to use a tripod. He is a photographer. He said he would help me, knowing how important it was for me. Anyway, he then said he had work and couldn’t help me out. I then had to fly out to be with my family. No family portrait was taken as I did not know how to use the tripod and dad’s hair has since fallen out.
Anyway, when I next returned and saw Mr Unavailable walking in the street. He came to greet me and I just gave it all to him. I said to him, I am a nice person, and people who dont even know me have offered me their support. I said to him, you know me, and yet you did not have 5 mins to help me. I said to him he was a jerk.
I stick by my word he really is a jerk, and it is the first time I have been mad like that to anyone, but I am feeling so bad for telling someone he is a jerk as it is not in my character.
He saw me again the next day and apologised in the street, but my attitude towards him was “whatever”, and I said “I wouldn’t want anyone to be going through what I am going through”. He has since caught up for coffee with my best friend to say to her that he feels bad that he did not help me but that he honestly had a work deadline blah blah blah.
I will not contact Mr Unavailable but want your opinion here, did I do anything wrong by calling him a jerk? Should I just have been classy and ignored him and not said anything?
I was mad which is not like me. And I do realise that the world does not revolve around me and my problems, but surely a real “friend” would have helped me here.
I would value your opinion.