dice spelling out the end

When a man decides to opt out of the relationship by ending it, it is no different to when he chooses to opt out of it by behaving in counterproductive, assclownish ways but not actually uttering the words, ‘It’s over’. They both amount to the same thing.

I was talking with someone a few days ago and she said ‘But he’s still here and until he actually says it’s over, I’ve got to believe that we still have a chance’.

But actually he’s already left the building. He’s sleeping around and she hasn’t actually seen him properly for several weeks. That’s a funny kind of ‘here’ to me. Aside from the fact that you have to ask why she can’t end it if he doesn’t actually end it, you also have to ask what on earth she is waiting for!

We often believe that once we hear the words that it will signify when our own action will kick in, but as many a reader can testify to, being told that it’s over is no guarantee of that. If we’re hellbent on avoiding reality and dodging the pain, him actually saying it’s over can signify the start of us doing and saying all sorts of things on our ‘win back’ campaign.

What we have to realise is that not only is talk cheap but that we have to be more ‘action’ focused.

If a man says ‘we are exclusive’ and then shags around behind your back or shops around online, you’re not exclusive. Saying it and doing it are two different things. Anyone can say anything. But, can they live their words?

What’s the difference between a man saying ‘I want to break up’ or one that disappears for weeks (or even months) until you get the message? Nothing, it both amounts to the same thing.

What you have to be careful of is analysing the crap out of the who, what, where’s, how’s and why’s instead of dealing with the facts. It doesn’t matter why he disappeared for weeks on end and how much do you really stand to gain from obsessing about if it’s something you did? – His behaviour is despicable and disrespectful and not acceptable. Who cares why he did it? The fact that he has is a glaring neon light of a signal that says this man is not worthy of your time.

What you need to ask yourself is what are you waiting for and why can’t you process the info? What is it that he has to do before you say, ‘enough!’?

The reason I ask this is because often people’s ‘enough’ points don’t materialise and the yardstick just keeps widening and widening to accommodate him, your excuses, and your inaction.

I know from my own experiences though that actually, it’s like prolonging the inevitable. We think something is going to happen to change things but actually, the same end result occurs, we just take a sh*tty, long winded, painful route to get there and in hindsight we realise that we have to make judgements. We have to make decisions. We have to trust our judgement, our instincts, and the evidence, and do something.

These situations can leave you feeling indecisive but we have to make a decision and that decision only needs YOU.

Your thoughts?

Get ahead on understanding waste of space men and relationships with my ebook, Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl. Find out more and download.

Natalie Lue is the founder and writer of Baggage Reclaim and author of the books Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl, The Dreamer and the Fantasy Relationship and more. Learn more about her here and you can also follow her on Facebook and Twitter – @baggagereclaim .

Natalie (NML) – who has written posts on Baggage Reclaim by Natalie Lue.


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86 Responses to He Doesn’t Have to Say It’s Over for It to Be Over

  1. Judy says:

    Wow, I think this post was written for me! I know all of my Assclown’s bad points, but can’t seem to/won’t let go….we broke up 7 or 8 weeks ago (yeah! I can’t remember without looking at a calendar and counting!!!!!) and I am actively working on not just being able to say – enough! – when it comes to this particular Assclown and to be able to be stronger and wiser and saying sooner if it ever happens with any future Assclown.

  2. Alika says:

    NML, thank you for your article !

    I relate to your questions: “What you need to ask yourself is what are you waiting for and why can’t you process the info? What is it that he has to do before you say, ‘enough!’?”

    I was really emotional with my EUM, he stood me up twice, he kept disappearing and appearing during these 12 months, never introduced me to his family, but promised a lot, only talking blah blah blah…I felt used and accepted the situatio, without asking myself :”Why I keep doing this to myself?” What was wrong with me?!!! WHY I WAS SO STUPID???

  3. leeanne says:

    I had been seeing a mm for two years. Suddenly his life fell apart- work, wife, etc. and he disappeared for two months. I told him I got the hint and that i was gone. He did not have to worry about it. I was so hurt because he promised me that if he wanted to end it he would tell me. So of course, he was like what do you mean your gone? and he kept asking. I saw him one last time and that was my enough. I ended it two days later. The fact that he could disregard me for two months, although he was going through hell i think a two minute phone call here or there would have been nice, was a glaring message that this man does not care about me. He only cares about himself and his needs. To be so cruel when he knew my fear was that he would disappear was so horrible for me. I did not think I would get through the pain. It has been three months of no contact. It’s funny because I still wonder if he will come back because we have a history of me breaking it off and him coming back. For some reason though I think it is different. I know one thing is for sure. I don’t want what I had back. EVER. I want someone who loves me. He is not the one.

  4. Gaynor says:

    Leeanne,

    I think it says a lot that there’s limited contact. Did he tell you that the only reason you weren’t together was b/c he was married? See Ladies, it’s all a bunch of lies, the promises that you will be together if it weren’t for the kids and unstable wife. The actions say it all!!!!!

  5. jennifer smith says:

    i think many women ( including myself in an unhappy situation ) put a lot of emphasis on hope. hope for change. hope that it will work out. hope that he will stop hurting them. b/c we have spent 1,2,3 years with this man and we deeply love them. this something i have a serious problem with. i’m trying but it is a very, very difficult thing to break out of.

  6. leeanne says:

    Gaynor it was only implied. I don’t really care now. I mean I don’t rehash it. The thing is the lack of empathy or care for someone else’s feelings that gets me. Jennifer I think you are right. I always hoped that things would be different, better each time he came back. But what I found out this time the third time was that it doesn’t change. They will never change. The light bulb that we hope will go off in their head that we are amazing and that they care so much does not happen. I also keep going back to something either i saw on this site or that i read in an article. There is no stopping a man if he wants you. I think about that all the time and my ex hasn’t come around so that says it all.

  7. Elizabeth says:

    It is amazing the _ _ _ _ that I put up with. It is amazing that I bought his lies and his lies about his lies. It is amazing that I kept hoping he would fix himself and his problems. It is amazing that I got involved with a MM, that I felt he was out the door, and that I thought he was interested in moving on to all that he said he wanted. And, I never thought that that was me. But I did think that he wanted to be happy. And I thought that he wanted to take a chance at happiness. I guess that I really projected my desires onto him.

    I mean, I get my issues, but I don’t get what I did about fixing my issues. As in getting involved with a MM. So, what made me think that he would fix his stated, “I am not happy, but I am content.” I mean, who wants to be content when happiness is out there? Anyway, I am by far the stronger person, and yet, I fell to this absolute nonsense.

    It is amazing than an educated and highly functional woman could become this involved with a highly dysfunctional man who is enmeshed in his already existing relationship.

    Truly, amazing that I got involved. And truly amazing that it took me forever to get that his inaction was his answer. And, his inaction reinforced my inaction of getting the hell away from him!

    What is also amazing, is that despite 6 months of no contact, that I even devote as much as two seconds of time to thinking about him. But I do. I know that I will not go back, but I do know that if suddenly became single, I would be there in a flash.

    What in the world is wrong with me?

  8. ts says:

    Wow,

    What is this obsessing thing, even long after you have gone NC? What drives that force? Anyone?

  9. myalmostlover says:

    I think to get to your “enough” moment you have to get angry and get real. Dating, living with or being married to assclowns seems to suspend women’s common sense. I know it did mine. What would we do if a friend treated us this way? Would they still be our friend? I think not. For some reason we cut these men so much slack when the truth is slapping us in the face.

    When a man truly loves a woman he wants to be with her. He doesn’t disappear or sleep around or lie to that woman. When a man acts this way it’s because he just doesn’t care enough about the relationship to be his best self. He hangs around and throws crumbs of himself because he can get away with it. Probably he has a history of treating women badly and picks his victims carefully. He knows the kind of women that will fall for this crap.

    I’m truly remorseful that I didn’t get out of my assclown relationship sooner. The signs were all there. He didn’t need to tell me he wanted to break up, his actions said it all. What a loser.

    Never again.

  10. Lisa says:

    Elizabeth, you wrote “What is also amazing, is that despite 6 months of no contact, that I even devote as much as two seconds of time to thinking about him.”

    I’m at about 3 1/2 months or so of n.c., and still have the same incredulous feeling about myself when I still think of him. I think that we spent so much time hoping for something to change for so long, and we loved (if you can call it love) for so long that we just are going to have take a bit of acdtual time to really release the whole event in our lives even though we know in our minds that it is completely over. I believe that day will come. We’re already on the right path.

    This article really hit hard.

  11. Elizabeth says:

    I reread NML’s post, and yeah, I widened and widened the yardstick by tolerating, waiting, and expecting that he would do something. Anything. But, even though he was there everyday for 2 plus years, he was never there. It never even existed. He wouldn’t even have a conversation about any issues, so what made me think that he would have the guts to level with me one way or the other? I really really fell for his – poor pathetic me – routine.

    That’s the irony of getting involved with these men. I had to call it quits, but what was there to call “quits” to?

    As for the obsessing, who knows? If I knew the cause, I wouldn’t do it. I could kick that obsessing in the ass, but I just cannot seem to let go. It is a prison of my own making. I would give anything to go one 24 hour period without a single thought of him. I think the most I have gone is about 8 hours. No, make that 6. And again, what is there to mourn? There was nothing to begin with. And, no, when women friends even so much as behave disrespectfully to me more than one or two times, I am done with the friendship. I should not ever have started into the relationship with him, but most definitely, I should have opted out of the relationship, permanently, when I discovered that he is one of those who cannot commit to anything . . . even his own well being. Because, I actually ended up becoming a weak person over this assclown.

    It is time for me to say enough and just stop.

  12. ts says:

    Hey Elizabeth,

    A prison of one’s own making? Pretty good. I agree, if I knew why this obsessing thing is happening, I would stop it, point blank. Yes, we know they are not good for us, yet, I can’t stop thinking about it. This, even though all the proper steps and stop gaps have been put in place. Truly maddening, I must say.

    Good luck to all with all of this. ts.

  13. brooke says:

    Dear friends,
    The biggest mistake that I committed in the recent past is that I established contact with my assclown after 3 months of NC.I was manking awesome progress.I had nothing but hatred for him in my heart and did not want to have anything to do with him.Then suddenly one day(about 2 weeks ago)I had some personal issue.Instead of dealing with it myself I contacted my weird assclown for no reason.And all the neurosis came back all over again.Today I am dealing with the aftermath of it.Struggling to break away from this nonsense again.Analysisng every little thing that happened in the past..what,when,where,how..there seems to be no end.I feel I ma losing it at times.I am scared that I will never be able to get out of this mess that I seem to have got into.My mother says that there are basically 2 kinds of problems-the ones that are unavoidable and the others that we get into.I got into this mess knowingly.I knew from the beginning that this would get me nowhere.I am guilty of reading this great site but not following anything that is given here.Every word that is written here is true…absolutely..I need help..To get over this man once and for all.To forget all the trauma that I have been through in the last 2 years with him.Taking the crumbs that he dished out to me over and over again..and going back for it..God..is there an end to this?Others who have successfully got over such traumatic experiences..kindly do me a favour by telling me how you managed to do so.

  14. Coralie says:

    I have been having recurrent dreams of my EUM (we broke up almost 3 months ago). During the day I also think of him from time to time…I am not thinking about what he is doing or where he is; nor am I thinking about us getting back together. It is just his name and his image – POP – in my head. I really have no idea why. The only rational explanation i have is that I still have unfinished business, regarding me, and in the context of our relationship. I have worked very hard over these months to build my self-esteem and to remember who I am and what I want. I have learned alot about me by analyzing our relationship But, I think there is still something from our relationship that I need to learn, and is about myself. But I really dont know if that is a correct assumption!

  15. Karen says:

    Hi Everyone
    I am there with all of you! I work with my xEUM despite the fact that I broke it off more than 3months ago– I still think about him and the 2 years of my life that I wasted on this A**clown. I do have to say that my feelings fluctuate from disgust/hate (and I know hate is a strong word) to complete and utter anger at myself for having fallen for his lies. His sob stories about his unhappy home (with the mother of his kids) but how he couldnt leave because of them etc… Ofcourse he is off with someone else now and it makes me soo sick how they can just walk through life not taking any responsibility nor having the ability to reflect back. I think what angers me more is that there are still women out there who are not privy to what we have come here to learn and that continue to enable their behavior thus not contributing in any way to helping them realize that they are indeed A**holes! There are moments when I feel like messing up the little thing he has going on right now because i just dont think its justice for these men to walk around and continue to do what they do and think its ok. Believe me I have thought about it but what keeps me from losing my sanity is this site and remembering that giving any thought or energy in his direction is a waste of my time and a hindrence to my happiness. To say that any one of us actually ever “gets over it” not sure….. but i sure hope so!!! It would take someone who is further along to answer this question. What I do know is that reaching out in any way shape or form to them does not work– all it does is give them an ego stroke and provides them with more attention. I know I for one walk around my office bldg and pretend he doesnt exist (extremely hard in the beginning but have learned to be a master at it) and I know this kills him. He is a good looking guy and most of the women around here tend to offer him some type of “attention” and i just walk right past him and pretend we never even had a relationship! And guess what? There are times when he tries to call me at my desk (pretending it has something to do with a project) and as soon as the conversation goes into something more…..i say: Sorry-I have a meeting to run to– gotta go! Not for anything but in the beginning i thought this was so mean of me. But now i realize that he deserves it and it is something that I should have done a long time ago!! The key thing here is realizing that only WE have the ability to put a STOP to their behaviour. And waiting on them to end things will never happen!! They will take advantage of us/the situation/our weakness/our kindness etc…. until WE DECIDE enough is enough!!! I truly hope we choose more often than not to be STRONG and not continue to enable them. Shut the door and deal with the pain, the anger and the loss but don’t wait for him nor go back to his crumbs….cause if we do…… it is our own doing not theirs and we are stronger than that!!!

  16. Karen says:

    Ok– I have a question now… perhaps for NML or anyone else…. as if you couldnt already tell from my posts… I feel that I am in this anger stage. I have passed the point where I want or even think about getting back with my xEUM but I certaintly still feel a lot of anger towards him which in essence still keeps me stuck in this situation. Perhaps its a good thing to be angry (to some extent) but I find myself being a real B*tch to him. He owes me some $$ from our relationship (I was stupid enough to let him use my CC while we were dating) and although he has been making monthly payments on time……. I feel that I sometimes nag him to pay it off already but i sometimes think i do this as my only way to get back at him. Does anyone know what i mean? Its like the only thing I have over his head…that I can make him feel bad about which is telling him to pay up!!! Now grant it he is a minimum wage worker who has three kids and lives with the mother of his children blah blah blah. While I was with him — i had compassion and understanding for him (which put me in the situation where I am now– trying to repair my own damage) and in so doing– i allowed him to charge some things on my card in because at that point in time, well, “I cared for him soo much” (I know better now) Needless to say– like I said……. I know he doesnt make much and if anything– struggles to pay his bills but manages to make the minimum payments to me for the card (he owes about $600) but because im soo angry I feel like: You know what…you were an ass to me…..you lied and cheated on me and quite frankly I dont care what you have to do to pay me back (get two other jobs if you have to!!!) but since im not with him anymore I dont see why I should have any understanding or compassion towards him (other than the fact that he is human) but does anyone think I am being unreasonable and a B*tch if I say these things to him and tell him well… do what you have to do but I dont think its fair that i still have to carry this burden and help you through it inspite of the ass that you were with me during our relationship? And what is really disturbing is that he genuinly thinks in his own deluted mind that he was not an ass to me…….that he tried “his best” and makes it seem as though I am the one who doesnt understand and is just doing this spitefully. I know he will never get it nor understand where I am coming from…….but that just makes it even harder because he just says im not being understanding and a friend if I know how much he struggles just to make ends meet and here i am requesting $600 straight up! Uhm— im not trying to be his friend first of all…….. deep down i know it is almost impossible to get these $600 but at the same time I cant help but feeling like I shouldnt have to deal with this anymore. Am I angry??? Am I right? or am i both?

  17. Mike says:

    To TS

    What drives everyone is the hope that these guys will change and come back because many of these women feel that since they put up with all this nonsense and loved them unconditionally, that is gives them the right to lay claim to these men. That these men are required to have some enormous epiphany and realize how great these women are.

  18. FinallyOverIt says:

    I think we become addicted to these EUMs in the same way a drug addict is addicted to their drug of choice. We are trying to fill some kind of void in our lives, and are choosing the most self-destructive ways to do that. I agree that even though I have had NC with my ex-EUM for a while now, I still see him every day because I work with him, and I do still think of him more than I should, and like some of you, I’m trying to figure out WHY???? I am very clear in my mind that he is damaged and broken, and yet I still haven’t totally moved on. At this point, I am wondering if I am projecting my experience with my ex-EUM onto the distant relationship I have always had with my dad, and maybe there is a connection there. I wish I had an answer to this, because I can see that it plagues a lot of us.

  19. Nilondoner says:

    Karen, anger is good if it’s a phase. it must flow away from you and morph into something else: gumption maybe.
    as for the money, I don’t think you are being a b**c, just a bit unreasonable. You should realize that you are using this money as a way to engage with him, and engaging is still a form of attention.
    You are still giving him your mental energy and attention, in a “bitchy” sort of way because you don’t allow yourself anything else. Don’t engage! How would you behave if a total stranger had that debt with you? would you be arsy, even if they were making regulare payments? probably not, so don’t be with him.
    treat him as if he was a total stranger. Don’t engage! you’re not wrong but throwing a fit gives him your attention and, which is worse, is a signal to him that you want his attention. Isn’t what nagging and tantrums are? attention seeking behaviour? Is that the message you want to send to him? be patient and when he will have repaid his debt go and celebrate.

  20. What I like most about this article is that what’s more important than him shouting loud and clear that it is over, without actually saying the words, but the fact that so many of us won’t end it ourselves. We allow this behavior, and allow our mind to think up scenarios to excuse it. It is amazing how imaginative our minds can be.

    Best Wishes

    searchingwithin’s last blog post..TGIF – The Five Best Love and Relationships Articles From Around the Web – #2

  21. Karen says:

    Nilondoner:
    hmmm….not sure I agree with you 100%. I am not trying to engage with him. If anything– I really wish I could move somewhere else and pretend that none of this ever happened but get soo frustrated that even though he was an A** to me, here I am being patient and understanding with him repaying his debt to me and that i to an extent,,,, still have this tie to him. I just want it to be over. Im not throwing a tantrum with him (perhaps its coming across that way here) but i know that if someone broke up with me, and I owed them money– i would want to make a clean break and I would find the means to get out of that debt as soon as possible. Like I said, I feel I have no choice. The man makes minimum wage and I know I got myself into this mess…. just trying to get myself out but also have to be careful so as not to anger him so that he doesnt pay me back altogether! Like I said, im angry that i still have to be understanding and patient with someone who didnt show me that in return! Is that being spiteful?

  22. Karen says:

    Afterthought (sorry)
    I dont know if this site has made me stronger (well I know it has) but to an extent I have found myself being a lot tougher all around. I was always too busy trying to be “nice” and not thinking about me and found that if anything– that is what led me into bad relationships. But now I fear that I am too much of a bitch (or have become too savvy) that I find myself not putting up with or having very little tolerance for BS. So yes– I am not as accomodating and understanding as before unless I see that the other person is deserving and to an extent…recipricates similarly in one way or another.

    NML…. Can you shed some light on this? Is this something that happens once we wake up and smell the coffee? Not saying that i dont yet have much to learn- but just observed this about myself after being on your site and realizing many things about myself and being wtih these A**Clowns

    Thank you!

  23. Gaynor says:

    Karen,

    He makes minimum wage and has a wife and three kids to support. Great! Why doesn’t he get another job?

  24. Gaynor says:

    Karen,

    I hope you weren’t paying for everything when you went out???

  25. Karen says:

    Gaynor
    uhm— we never went out!!! LOL But the one or two times we did– he would pay. And for Xmas bdays we did exchange gifts and his to me were always nice (not cheap or anything) either way…. that being said……he lives with the mother of his kids and makes minimum wage yes. Not sure if im being too harsh is saying… well get another job but it is how i feel!!! I struggle between being a good understanding person like i was once with him but cant help but to still feel angry about the lieing etc….. oh not to mention that he says to me: You were once soo nice and understanding. You are just not the same person. WELL NO Kidding!!! You lied to me, denied it some more and then lied to me again and again……not sure where in all of this i should continue to be a “nice” person to him. But he doesnt understand this.

  26. Karen says:

    By the way I had let him borrow another $600 to go and see his family in his country (he hadnt been in like 15 yrs!!!) and not for anything but im a single mother myself…. and i cant afford to be waiting forever for him to pay me back… i just regret being so dumb and having so much compassion for him and his situation that i allowed myself to put myself out there so much. And here i am– the only one trying to clean up my own mess. I know he didnt force or ask me for it–I offered but only because I didnt really know who he truly was and that he was talking to yet more women behind my back (yeah besides the one he had at home and ME!) and then proceeded to lie about it when I saw his phone. Once all that happened, I wanted to take it all back after I realized who I was really dealing with. It makes me so angry to know that I didnt fall in love with him…….I fell in love with who I THOUGHT he was and I cant help but to not want to wait another second to be inconvenienced by not having this $$$ when I feel he doesnt deserve another ounce of my compassion!

  27. Astelle says:

    Karen, is he the one that lives with the girlfriend because of Immigration papers?? I have not read all of your posts, how did you guys “break up”?

    Never give a man money!!

  28. Gaynor says:

    I second that, Astelle!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  29. Karen says:

    I broke up with him….. for so many obvious reasons but mainly because of the “other, other” women besides me (god knows I have learned so much from this site) that he was talking to and that i found out about and he denied. Aside from that… all the other reasons have to do with typical A**clown behavior (not recipricating, making excuses as to why he couldnt see me, not taking responsibility etc…etc..etc..)
    No he lives with the mother of his kids… they have been together for 12 years. He claims he loves his kids (which i dont doubt) and that that is why he cant just leave them…they come first and his happiness/love life comes last even if him and the their mom no longer get a long (but i dont know how much of any of this was true).
    Yes I now know that i should have never extended myself so much with him and let him borrow money put money on my card etc….
    Am I being unreasonable/mean in wanting him to pay this back as soon as possible??

  30. gina says:

    I remember when I ended things with the EUM because he barely was calling or seeing me; which always when I went to confront him he would make me sound like the needy girl who had issues (reality check I did LOL) but, eventually I saw the light when he continued not to spent time and contact like he did, primary contact was text (big no, no and great article btw about it) so I ended it over text. He had the audicity (years later) when I was talking to him on IM (still in dellusion that I could ever be validated) saying “well you broke up with me over text”… I said yeah, I figured since that was the way we were in contact, that’s how I’d do it! Now, and this is only since a few months ago that I’m living in complete reality and would never accept contact and be disillusioned again by being used for his “ego stroking”… purposes.

    In regards to the post, it’s true — it’s so important to look at the actions and trust ourselves. How many times did I justify for multiple assclowns and EUMs, too many times but really I had enough LOL

  31. Astelle says:

    Karen, he is making minum wage and has kids – he can’t afford to leave.
    What were the terms for him to re-pay that money?

  32. Karen says:

    Astelle:
    He cant afford to leave? Not sure what you mean by that.
    Well… when we were together I told him he could pay me back as long as he was making the minimum payments on the card and as long as he paid me back the $600 I let him borrow. This ofcourse was when I was under the impression that we were together, when I bought the story that he was soo unhappy at home and when I thought he was a good honest person/friend to me. That ofcourse all changed when I found out that there were other women he would talk to on the phone even though he said they were only “friends” but Not sure who texts and call their “friends” at 1am. Anyway— when I found this out ofcourse it crushed me because I realized in that moment that I was soooo wrong about him. From that point I broke it off with him and asked him to please keep his end of the bargain at least and not screw me over with not paying me back. That I had helped him out of the goodness of my heart because I loved him but that now things had changed obviously because of his lies and because he hurt me. 3-1/2 months later I cant help but to not want him to give me what he owes me. At this rate…. i feel it could be years before he finishes paying me back!

  33. Astelle says:

    Karen, what I meant, it is cheaper to keep her than leaving and paying child support. Sorry, that is a different story.
    So, as long as he makes the minimum payment – until the card is payed off? Yes, it could take years until is all payed back, but you made that arrangement with him. As long as he pays, fine, take the money, should he stop paying, cut your losses and lesson learned to never give a man money.

  34. Karen says:

    Thanks Astelle
    But now i feel bad for pressuring him into paying me back. Am I supposed to be nice and understanding and patient until he has payed off his debt? I feel this keeps me stuck to him at times when I dont want to be. He hurt me and to be honest, I just want him to pay me back ASAP because he didnt deserve my help in the first place! I feel that by me continuing to say yes its ok…I know you dont have the $$$…. i can wait…… is me continuing to give into his A**clown behaviour and not making him accountable for the fact that hey .. .Im a single mom……but If the roles were switched and i had borrowed $$ from him…… I would have found a way to pay him back already.. #1 because it was a nice gesture and It is my obligation and #2… to cut all ties as soon as possible!!! I sometimes feel that because he knows I am willing to wait and be patient…..he doesnt look for other means to make it happen faster (like find another job!!!)

  35. Astelle says:

    Yes, you agreed to these terms. I understand that you are mad and want it back NOW, you just won’t get it back any faster from him by demanding it or fighting. He is a loser for taking your money in the first place, but you gave it to him with your own agenda!!

    Take the re-payments as they come in and not worry about it, there is nothing else that you can do. Sorry, messy situation.

    You never know, he may be “decent” and you have all your money back to you next week, which probably means he got it from another woman. Don’t go off the deep end over that and don’t give money to people anymore – except to me of course :)

  36. Karen says:

    Haha! Thanks Astelle! :)

  37. Alika says:

    Oh, dear girls, it seems like we were dating the same Assclown, unbelievable..

    Brooke, your MUM is very wise woman…she is right about : “There are basically 2 kinds of problems-the ones that are unavoidable and the others that we get into” …Sometimes, I think we just dont have enough respect and love for ourselves, that allwoing these men to treat us like dirt…

    NML right – that, these Assclowns gave us so many “signals”, but we still cant get it!!!

    I didnt see my EUM for two weeks now and he didnt call or text me and I am not bothered to call him or text him either.

    I try to keep myself busy, yesterday joined Creative writting classes and gym…I need to be busy otherwise I just go mad:-(

    I wish you all the best in your road of recovery!

  38. Rachel says:

    I had to see my assclown at a meeting last week after 5 months of no contact. I spoke to him briefly prior to the meeting so we did not have any awkward moments among co-workers. I was really nervous that I would fall into the same pattern as before madly in love with him again. But instead I saw him with much clearer eyes. I took him for what he really is instead of imposing some fantasy of how he is in my mind. What I saw was a very arrogant ass who never deserved me and for once I came to realize he is what he is. I came to the realization that what I want in a man and a relationship does not come in his flavor. The time did me good and I was able to see him clearly for once and walk away without any pain. It was a good thing.

  39. Betterwithouthim says:

    I need help figuring this one out. Recently over the last few months I’ve been contacted by an ex-EUM. He has sent me emails – I did not respond. He has left me voicemails at work – I did not respond. I believe him to be calling my cell phone now as a “restricted” phone number but I have not picked up one call. I was left one voicemail from this “restricted” caller and it was muffled noise in the background and breathing that was it. But in his emails and voicemails he has been claiming that I’ve been mad at him and he has tried to contact me to say he is sorry but doesn’t really know what to apologize for. He keeps saying he wants to be my friend and that friends don’t do this to each other…blah blah. I refuse to confirm or deny anything but I’m getting so sick of his contact. I think the thing which makes me most mad is his babble about how he said he was sorry – not sure what for type stuff. He doesn’t get it, he won’t get it even if I tried to explain it.

    He is just brain dead and believes he was good to me and I should just get over being mad. Why do I care? And why am I letting him get under my skin like that? It’s his problem. When I realized what I have been dealing with all these years after reading this site and educating myself I never gave him a second thought. I cut the contact immediately. He is an ex-EUM from years ago, but I had stayed in touch with him off/on just as friends. But it was more like I was his “ego – stroke” than I ever was a friend.

    One side of me wants to give him a piece of my mind, and the other side just says keep the NC going and soon he’ll just give up and disappear. What do all of you think? Do I owe him some type of explanation, phone call, text message, voicemail or do I just keep up the NC?

  40. Astelle says:

    NC.

  41. Alika says:

    Betterwithouthim,

    Please be strong, and do not give him any explanation…HE doesnt deserve your explanation! You achieved so much already, do not spoil it..

  42. myalmostlover says:

    Karen….Isn’t it funny how hard it is to get these men to make plans? It cracks me up thinking about it. Even the least little thing is a big deal. They hate to committ to making a committment to even going to the movies. I swear, I wish I had a dollar for everytime he said, “We’ll see”. Everything was like pulling teeth. Once you drag them out, they usually have a good time but it’s so much work.

    I’m dating this guy now that loves to make plans and take me places.
    We’re just having fun and nothing serious but it keeps amazing me that he doesn’t have any problems with asking me to do things with him. Just comparing him to my xEUM is so eye opening because I can see that when a man wants to be with you they just do it. No games. I’ve really learned a lot over the last several months. I think I can even say I’m over my EUM. I think of him from time to time but so glad I’m out of that relationship. All I did was cry the last three or four months of it. What a crazy way to live. I’m so glad I ended it FINALLY without waiting for the last goodbye from him.

    And yes I do feel tougher as well. I won’t say I’m a bitch but I just won’t tolerate bad behavior. Mostly if I meet someone, my radar is up and I just won’t take it any further if he shows me disrespect. I think this is a good thing because I never want to go back to being that pushover person that was oh so nice all the time and tolerated assclown behavior. I think my self esteem is much higher now.

  43. Gina says:

    Karen,

    Yeah, you can only learn from your mistakes. You say that you want him to take accountability—but you do have to as well for lending money to a guy who you aren’t in a stable relationship with. You also say that he was a cheat — you have always known he was married and therefore aware that he had ties to his wife and children — did you expect good karma? I’m not trying to be mean, but it’s the truth and it seems like you see it now. If I was in your situation; I most likely would pay off the debt on my own, this way it shows me that the most important thing is to untangle myself from these unhealthy binds and move on. You say you are a single mom; don’t have that much money yourself, etc… don’t be feeling bad for married men whatever state of emotion they are in with kids, or have no money — they are not children and anyone crying broke and unhappy like that is out to take advantage of you. I’m sorry to hear.

  44. tulipa says:

    I was s l o w in getting the message that it was all over and he wanted me out of his life..
    I have done two months thought it was longer .. I haven’t exchanged a word with him in two months .. but infortunately i do sabatage my progress at times .. by looking at his web site and i have rang his phone but got the answering machine and hung up.. that one makes me feel 16.. but im working on it .. only done it 3 times .. but still.. it acheives nothing …
    I don’t like wasting my time thinking of him either.. makes me mad ..

  45. Gaynor says:

    Better,

    This is harassment. I would threaten this guy with the police if he bothers you again. Let him know you’re serious this time!

  46. Gaynor says:

    Jennifer,

    Remember, hope and reality are two different things. Hope is a wonderful thing but when someone is consistently unavailable and treats you poorly it’s time to face the truth and move on with your life.

  47. T says:

    Oh my… thank you so much for this.

    Going through my own FINAL breakup with an EUM. I’ve been trying to break it off for a while now.

    I know, I know… don’t try. Do.

    This time it will stick!! Dammit!!!

    Thanks for your help NML and everyone…

    T’s last blog post..Love when I need it

  48. brooke says:

    I have always had one sided attractions..The men I have fallen for have either been involved with women have had some issues of their own.Either way,all the effort,attraction has been only from my side.At the end of it I would end up feeling miserable and wondering why the men I liked could never love me back.I am going through a similar phase again.I feel really pathetic now.I wonder why I keep going through this over and over again.Does it reflect any deep rooted problem within me?Like insecurity..or lack of self pride?Is this a normal thing?Being involved and getting attracted repeatedly to men who cannot love you back.How many times do I fall and get up?This time I seem to have fallen with a thud.I am totally lost.I seem to have taken it really badly this time.Just not able to get over my recent EUM.Feel like calling him again and again.Am not able to digest the fact that he cannot love me the way I want to.I feel that it is my mistake..probably something is wrong with me,that the men I want are not able to love me back despite the fact that I have a lot of good qualities.My recent EUM has inflicted every kind of heartburn on me…not answering my calls,never making plans to meet me,making plans and canceling them in the last moment,meeting me once in several months at my behest,accusing me of being demanding and high maintenance all the time,complete reliance on texts..God…for the last 2 years I have put up with this.Now it has taken its toll on me.I seem to have become a nervous wreck,lost interest in everything,seem to have lost my appetite….I am in a different city now.This is probably the best time to get over him.Far from it.I only seem to be getting desperate day by day..that he is not able to love me back the way I would like him to.What do I do?

  49. CV says:

    Karen,

    i am posting this only after reading a few responses to you…so please bear that in mind :) My ex-EUM owes me ALOT of money. We consolidated student loans and because of different reasons the loan is in my name and to the the tune of 30,000 dollars! I wrote him an email a while ago, after we broke up, telling him that I want him to get his own loan. He was not able to secure one at the moment ‘due to the finanacial crisis’…but, I have a feeling there is more to the story than i know about…i feel like maybe he has terrible credit and may have a gambling problem that i am not 100% aware of…well, this doesnt concern me anymore! Anyways, my point was this: he sends me monthly cheques…I dont see him, I dont talk to him, I just deposit the money and thats it. I dont even really look at the name on the cheque…its just a procedure…i have completely divorced myself from the situation. I encourage you to do the same :) Put your energy into you, and not into him,…you deserve it!!! You have neglected you for so long, now its time for a little TLC.

  50. Gaynor says:

    Brooke,

    If my memory is correct, isn’t this the guy that you saw 3 times within a two-year period? If it is, I believe NML said you were nothing more than acquaintances and that you had created a relationship that didn’t exist. I think you need to figure out why you are exerting so much energy on relationships that are not reciprocal and putting yourself through this time and time again. Have you considered therapy?

  51. Karen says:

    Thank you CV (and to everyone else) I like the way you put it… “i have completely divorced myself from the situation”. I have been doing so … I work with him but I maintain my distance and speak only when necessary (if even that). I certainly will not be paying it off myself and letting him go that easy either. I guess as long as he makes timely payments…….I will have to deal. Much luck with your situation as well. $30K is certainly a lot to contend with but I guess we put ourselves in this mess and are left to deal with it the best way we can. I know I have learned a lot myself from coming here and only wish I would have found this site so much sooner. Like NML says though…. you have that one “epiphany” relationship that changes you forever……..and this certainly has been the one for me! I dont ever see myself doing the things or thinking the things I did with my xEUM ever again…..lesson learned for good (I hope). We just have to continue working on ourselves to make sure we dont! And you are right…… have to put my energy into me not him… I have to just let it go! Best of luck !! ~Hugs~

  52. lisa says:

    T, it took me about 3 or 4 times of trying no contact on and off for about an 8 month period before I found this web-site (I just figured out “no contact” on my own, but I didn’t stick to it)… so when I finally found “Baggage Relclaim” I bought the book, downloaded the no contact rule, and I was finally off and running with a whole lot of support. Took 1 heavy try, then one accidental run-in with the guy, and finally, with my firmness towards him, and my own self-respect to never go there again, no contact has stuck. It was hard because I really thought I was in love, and wanted to believe that it could be different, but here I am, a year later, finally free of him (after over 2 years of inconsistency and ambiguity) and I feel better! (not 100 percent, but a LOT better.)

    You’ll get there, and when you get there, YOU’LL NEVER WANT TO GO BACK! Unfortunately, with an EUM, it never changes, even when you wish for it. I hope you find that defining moment where “enough is enough.”

    Good luck.

    Lisa

  53. Nikki says:

    Karen, I have to say that I think you are trying to hurt him back for the way he hurt you with this money situation. When I broke up with my ex-eum he owed me money. I had him paypal it to me so that I would not have to contact him directly. I had paypal send him an invoice to his email, he paid it and that was that. As someone else said, if you really wanted to be free of this man in every sense of the word you would either let him just send you a check in the mail each month or cut your loses and consider it money loss. You want him to pay you back sooner but the reality is the man is barely surviving yet he’s still currently paying you. You don’t have to be nice to him or treat him good but you do have to be realistic. You can’t get blood from a turnip. He can’t give you something he honestly doesn’t have. With 3 kids, wife and a min wage job he doesn’t have it. That’s just the reality. You knew this all when you lent him the money. The person who you are really angry with here most of all seems to be yourself. I’m not trying to be mean or nasty, but you are honestly using the money as an excuse to hang onto him, only it’s in a different way. I had one ex-eum who owed me far more than your ex does and I was so broke at the time, but because I wanted to be really let go of him and move on with my life I paid the bills off on my own. It took me a long time, but I did it and I was grateful for not having to have to deal with him in the process. Yeah you think at the time they’re getting away with something but the truth is they aren’t, you are. You’re getting away with your sanity and self-respect in tack. Stop using this money as a crutch to hang onto a man who you knew from the get go was a lying cheat. It’s easy to point blame and say oh but he lied but it keeps you from taking responsibility for your own part in this bad relationship which keeps you stuck. None of us here are perfect and have done our fare share of holding onto a dead relationship (I am hugely guilty of this crime!) but we sometimes have to tell each other the truth even if we don’t want to hear it. Just let go.

  54. Karen says:

    Nikki
    Thank you for your advice. I dont mind the truth or anyone being straight up and blunt. I am working on letting this anger go. Not just the one I have towards myself but of the whole entire mess. The truth is there have been times I feel that other people he owes $$ to get paid first……and i guess my main question/concern was is he taking advantage because I am willing to wait. There have been other times when I feel he has the means to go and buy a new outfit (I work with him so I hear/see) but yet he claims he can’t come through on certain things or pay up sooner. This is just a matter of me continuing to feel how i did while i was in the relationship……as if i didnt matter/was last on his list. And quite frankly I was there for him thick and thin and found ways to help him. Sure I can say let me just forget it and pay off the debt myself and tell him dont worry about it…….but im sorry– maybe i have not reached that point of forgiveness yet. He is a grown man and I think that by me not making him responsible for what he owes me…..is just contributing more to A**clown behavior and allowing him to believe that it is ok to not only have been a complete liar to me in the relationship but to continue to do so afterwards as well. Like i said, perhaps im not there yet. The whole time in the relationship he did not follow through on his words and promises and I allowed that to happen. I don’t see how I can allow that to continue to happen even now that I am not with him. I did that once with my son’s father. The car got repossesed, i wound up paying all the credit cards, i got stuck with the mess while he walked away clean…….including the stuff he had bought on MY CARD (TV, clothes watches etc….) So not for anything…….. i refuse to continue to pay for “his stuff” that he charged on my card….. $25 a month is fine for now……. as long as he pays me off… I rather deal with that than deal with knowing that I am working my A** off to pay for “his” things… while he walks around not worried. Dont we allow these men to get away with enough as it is? I take my part in it all…….. but like many articles in this site state: There are were two people in the relationship so the blame can’t all be mine nor the responsibility — it took two people to cause this. Yes i should have been wiser/made better decisions, but he could have been more upfront and honest with me as well.

  55. Mike says:

    Karen

    I would make sure I got every dime that he owed you. I really don’t think you are hanging onto this guy at all. The point it, even though he claims he is barely making it, he managed to take from you in the process. If his family needs to find out about this then so be it… but I definitely would pursue whatever means necessary (even legal) to get what is yours in this case. I guess the lesson learned is to never do it again

  56. Karen says:

    Thanks Mike! ;)

  57. Nikki says:

    Karen my point wasn’t that you were still “in love” but that you have become hell bent on punishing him for all he’s done and for those who have wrong you in this manner in the past (you mentioning your son’s father and how he screwed you over is case in point). What I was trying to say was instead of being vicious about this money situation you could still get your money back, but also allow more room for you to heal properly too. This eye for an eye attitude doesn’t help you heal and even when you get all your money back you might not be any happier after the process if you don’t find a healthy way to deal with the legitimate anger you rightly feel.

  58. Elizabeth says:

    This issue isn’t about money.

    The issue is about relationships being over and the women in them not accepting the reality for what it is.

    Even if I was a multi-millionaire, the issue wouldn’t be about the money owed to me from an ex, the issue would be about me finding what it is that keeps me hooked to him and his dysfunction.

  59. QueenofCats says:

    Love this site, this is sooooooo true. I just dumped an EUM myself. I knew he was playing games and it still took me a month to get up the nerve to say something. Mainly fear, I was afraid of his response and how he would react. He was upset that I called him out about his behavior so I backed down. After a few days I sent him an email letting him know I meant what I said and that it was ove. I also changed my number.

  60. Gaynor says:

    Queen,

    Good for you!!! What’s your story with this clown?

  61. Gaynor says:

    Karen,

    I agree with Mike. Did you get a promissory note? I bet that if you threaten legal action he’ll magically find the money to pay you back. Time to get this mess over with!

  62. ph2072 says:

    This happened with my last ex over 5 years ago. We were together for almost 3.5 years. Everything was great…… and then he just stopped calling. There were no arguments, no drama…… he just stopped calling. I’d call and leave messages but he wouldn’t call back. He decided to answer the phone over 2 weeks later and I asked him what was up. He said it’d be best if we broke up. No real reason….. just done. And the famous line “We’ll get back together if it’s meant to be.”

    UGH. PLEASE.

    I’ll admit that I wondered why and “what did I do?” and still thought about him incessantly. That was back then, and this is now….. which means hell no.

    Actions speak louder than words. If the words and actions don’t match, get rid of the assclown.

    • Pam says:

      Just read your experience..It’s so unbelievable, after all these years… I just had a similar one only a week ago (although my relationship only lasted 3 months): last week Tuesday everything was perfectly fine with us…no indications of any endings.. he called me that night to ask about my job interview etc, was sweet and nice..Wednesday night he called again and told about his debt problems he has been moaning about for several weeks and how he needs to get his life sorted out. I said something that night (something very futile)which he didnt like..he hang up on me..and never returned any of my phonecalls..i got a text message back last Sunday, saying ‘lets just see whats happening’ on my question if he still wanted to see me..i texted him again if he had had any feelings for me these months..and yes he had, was sorry he hurt me.. and that was the end of his communciation…Now I’m in limboland..i guess it’s a clear sign it’s over.? Soo strange isn’t? All seems to be going okay and then, Bang! from one moment till the other..gone.. welll sorry to bother you..I hope you have moved on..! So I can take that as an example! thx for reading btw… Pam

  63. ph2072 says:

    Elizabeth March 26th, 2009, 4:22 am

    “He wouldn’t even have a conversation about any issues, so what made me think that he would have the guts to level with me one way or the other?”

    Sounds JUST LIKE my ex mentioned in the above post. Avoidance and passive-aggressiveness were (and probably still are, haven’t spoken to him in 5 years – wow!) as normal to him as breathing.

  64. Karen says:

    Gaynor:
    I do not have a promissory note…… just the constant reminder every month when he makes the payment that he is still a part of my life. Like I said– he does make payments on time……..its just that at $25 a month its going to be a loooong time before my mess is completely over. My whole point in posting was that was it wrong for me at times to want him to try a little harder (like get another job…burden someone else — lke his family if he has to) in order to pay me back sooner.

    Elizabeth: This is about leaving the situation becuase I realized where I put myself and that I needed to opt out……..and yes ofcourse… reflecting back on myself and questioning my own issues that put me there in the first place (like we all should be doing). Not for anything…but being “too nice” and not having boundries for myself is what put me (and many others on this site) where we are now. The money is just another aspect of this whole mess that I have to contend with but certainly not as a means to keep myself invested in this man… which is the reason i wish he would pay me sooner!!! Because unfortunately to an extent— this is a tie i still have with him. And while I continue to heal emotionally—as best as I can.it is a hindrence…however, I also refuse to have him continue to take advantage by me letting the money issue go. Have I considered just taking him to court?– yes— but i struggle between knowing that he is a father of 3 who makes minimum wage (still have too much consideration for him or for another human being that is) and me just being patient and giving him the time he needs to pay me back. Yes I understand what Nikki said about dealing with the anger portion to heal properly (its only been 3-1/2 months since the break up) Im sure it will get better with time. The point again is……… Im tired of hearing sob stories from him and how if he won the lottery tomorrow he would pay me back in a heart beat and how he really wishes he could pay me back sooner (in typical… Im a good guy/A**clown behaviour) If you really hate this debt you have with me and are considerate of the fact that im a single mother and i allowed you to borrow this money in good faith– than actions speak louder than words….. Go get another job if you have to or how about you ask your new OW for a loan just like you did with me?? Or how about instead of that new coat you got at the mall— you use those $60 towards paying off your debt with me? My question was, if i was being too harsh in expecting this.
    Ofcourse im upset and angry. But not because we aren’t together anymore or because he has another woman (this just confirms for me that i made the right decision and that he is indeed an A**clown)but because now my eyes are wide open and i see things for what they really are. He owes me $$, im not willing to let that part go but if the man tells me he doesnt have it……i just get angry because I cant force him to give it to me any sooner although I feel that he could be trying a little harder!!! Anyway– the truth is I have to try not to allow this part to get to me because than i am allowing him to continue to hurt me. It just surfaces whenever i see him walking around the office with a new jacket or something new for his car and yet tells me he cant pay me anymore than he does!
    Thank you to all… all feedback is appreciated!! :)

  65. CV says:

    I have to say that I agree with Nikki. To be frank, 600$ is not a lot of money in the grand scheme of your life…and, in my own opinion, the emotional turmoil you continue to inflict on your Self. Sometimes it is the price we have to pay to learn our lesson, break free of the situation, and move forward in a positive light. I feel as though you are very angry and I just want to share this paragraph with you. I will first explain that I have doing alot of Self-analysis in the past few months and have learned alot about me; how I deal with things, my strengths and my weaknesses. I have read a ton of books, including NMLs book from cover to cover (which i highly recommend if you havent ordered it yet). Anyways, here is is:
    ‘if we hold anger inside it tends to transform into seething injustice or resentment, and these anger mutations hurt us first then those who live around us: Resentment is like taking poison and waiting for the other person to die’

    I dont know if this is you – it is just how I am interpreting as I read typed words on a screen. Perhaps you should look a little deeper and see what is under that anger and frustration. I am sure you will find some deep emotional suffering under there that needs a little TLC. If you could recognize it you could become free of this suffering you are enduring and you would realize that it really is best for your Self to let this man go, debts or no debts repaid.

  66. Gaynor says:

    Karen,

    I think if he had to he could get the money. What I think is appalling is that he is spending money on himself and prancing around the office showing off his new purchases.

    No, You’re not pushing to hard. You need to stop being concerned about his feeling, it’s time for it to be about you!

    Does he pay by check or cash? If he is paying by check it shows that it is a loan and that he has the full intention of paying off the balance.

    I wouldn’t excuse $600, especially in these times. Ladies, don’t lend men money!!!!!!

  67. blackgnat says:

    I think it’s okay to be angry about it and also to accept the payments. I would not forgive the debt-he owes you and even if it does take him a long time to pay it off, then that’s okay-he should be doing at least that one honorable thing.

    I can’t imagine how difficult it is for you to see him so frequently-that in itself has to be an incredible obstacle to your letting go. To also have to witness his new purchases and acquisitions must burn your hide and make you want to throttle him!

    I think you’re very strong to be able to endure this in-your-face situation while hurting badly.

  68. Gaynor says:

    Karen,

    I didn’t complete my thought re. the checks. You could use the proof of payments (in Small Claims) to prove that the money was a loan indicating that he owes you the money.

  69. finallyseenthelight says:

    Karen, for $600, I’d say you got off cheap. If he mails you the check then I’d take it, but if you have to speak to him or see him to get the money, I’d forget about it. I think you are angry at yourself for lending it to him and now blaming him for not paying you fast enough…when you are really angry that he didn’t love you the way you wanted to be loved. Perhaps the new clothes he’s prancing around in are ones this new OW bought for him. I honestly think you should think about getting a new job to get away from him if that is a possiblity. Any contact with him, no matter how minimal will make the healing even more difficult

    For me…I’m having difficulty just being on my own. If I think there is potential of a guy that I like liking me back, I feel good….when there’s nothing happening in that dept. I start missing the ex-EUM…the difference now is…I am able to talk myself out of contacting him and keep reminding myself how unhappy I was that I wasn’t getting a full relationship (even though we did have good times too)…I have to focus on me and why I can’t be happy on my own without a man interested in me. Why does it hurt so much? I guess I’m not feeling good enough about myself and need validation from a man…well…I’m determined to keep working on me…any advice?

  70. Karen says:

    finallyseeingthelight:
    Thank you for your comment. I love my job and it took me many many years to find a place where I was really happy– was treated well and enjoyed what I was doing… I am not willing to leave because of a man. Again— I work on me every day and realizing the WHY’s as to why I allowed myself to put myself in such a situation. Although its hard, I have made much progress in just 3 months and do everything i can to maintain NC and to detach myself emotionally from him. Much of what has helped me is in understanding and realizing why we do these things. I have learned so much from this site and can honestly say that it only gets better. I feel however, that changing my life and leaving my job would be allowing this situation that I put myself in win me over… I choose to instead work on me and continuing to keep my distance from this man until I have completely over come it. I feel I have passed the stage where I fear i would go back to him so perhaps that helps me in moving forward.

    As for your situation, I think you’re doing the right thing… “focusing on you”. You are aware that you cant/shouldnt seek validation from any man or anyone because that has to come from us not anyone else. Otherwise we are always at someone elses mercy for how we feel about ourselves. The next step for me was working on making it my new habit/form of thinking (easier said than done). It hurts because it does…and yes it sucks but if you dig a little deeper you realize that you werent in love with the person you thought he was…. but with the person or potential that you made up in your own mind. I know for me, I kept seeking validation from him (and previous men) because I had not yet completely realized it was “ME” who really needed fixing. Not to say these men are not jerks but the issue really wasnt about changing them but changing myself so that i wouldnt be attracted to them anymore and or allow such poor behavior in my relationships.
    Not sure how long it has been for you since you’re break up but I know I visited this site religiously and read through the countless articles until it became second nature for me and until I understood why I was feeling the way I was. If you keep reading you will find that NML has an article/advice for almost every stage/question during this process and every single one always goes back to the same thing: ITs not about them…..its about us. We have to gain back our power and learn to never give it away again!!! Like NML says” Spend time with yourself, learn to love yourself because if we dont love ourselves….how on earth do we expect someone else to???
    Stay stong!!! ;)

  71. dancefire says:

    Brooke, Stay strong. Just breathe, be in the present moment, the NOW, not the past or the hoped-for future. I can completely relate to believing in these relationships (even though we know it’s truthfully a dead end). I have a pretty obsessive personality, and I get very into the fantasy/illusion of guys I like (esp after sleeping with).

    I had a roughly 6-month thing that was always me contacting him and him ‘allowing me’ to give him attention but half the time ignoring me even when i came over, to do random construction projects until like 2 a.m. It was bizarre, ridiculous, very incosiderate, but i was soooooooooo attracted to him (“dickmotised” as the article says) that I’d keep going back, strategizing to see him. A blessing in disguise came when his friend told me he liked this girl (rare I thought, because he is so narcissistic, and can’t bear any restrictions whatsoever that he perceives impinge on his freedom).. and that “external factor” has been enough for me to stop contacting him now, almost 2 months.
    It will take time, but I am so much less anxious.

    Unfortunately, I hooked up with someone a month or so ago, and he was all about texting me at first, but it has really trickled down to practically nothing. It’s just so hard to not think about the last person you were intimate with (esp. when it was really good). I know he’s “just not that into me,” but I still keep hoping he’ll want to hang out again. I don’t really know how to just not think about him, even though it was a booty call at best. I don’t get these guys that don’t want to sleep with me as often as I want them… clearly they are attracted during it.. I guess there’s just a bunch of other factors that they would never think to tell us about? One of them might be the age – he’s 22 (college), I’m 29 (finishing grad school). Guess I just need to set my standards beyond physical attraction…

  72. dancefire says:

    Oh, the point of that last post was:
    as mentioned above, when it’s never clearly defined to begin with (a “something-nothing”) how do you just let it go and accept it’s nothing if the guy never clearly ends it?

  73. Gaynor says:

    Dance,

    You “accept it’s nothing” if you’re not getting anything out of the ‘relationship.’ What is there to hold on to?

    I don’t understand? This guy is clearly not giving you-or anyone for that matter-what you deserve, why in the world would you want “to hang out again?” Ladies, is this how little we are setting for??

  74. NML says:

    Brooke – I posted this last night in response to a comment you left on a different post yesterday but wanted to post it here just in case you hadn’t seen it -

    Brooke, it is good that you are trying to understand what you are doing. You are on a very self-destructive path and unfortunately, this is mostly of your own creation. You engage in such a high level of fantasy that actually, he’s not part of the equation – he’s just the inspiration for your next set of feelings but you almost don’t need these men around because you’re too busy living in a fantasy world. People can’t reciprocate something that is based on illusion and mostly in your head because you’re not in the real world. To have a half a chance of them reciprocating, you’d need to have both of your feet very firmly in reality. You actively choose men that are not going to reciprocate because how you conduct your life is what works for you. You don’t pursue men who are likely to be interested because you’re not trying to actually have a real relationship. You can’t make a relationship work that doesn’t exist – you have to realise this. You don’t want to let go, which means you don’t want to stop fantasising and putting yourself through this. I really think that you should speak with someone and I hope that you don’t just resign yourself to continuing this pattern of behaviour. What I will say is if this pain continues, you are 100% responsible for it – don’t do that to yourself.

  75. Miss Confused says:

    Hi all,
    I’ve read the posts that have been written and they have given me hope to know Im not the only one with this problem of not being able to leave. He has been living with me for 6 months now and he has completey changed. He has a problem with his back which has left him practically bed bound and he cant go out at all unless im with him to help him. he takes meds for it and i have read that they can be mood changing, however, i cant believe that the whole personality change is completely due to this. he has been so intolerant with me. he ignores me for days on end for no valid reason and then always has something mean to say about me and my personality. last week he shouted at me and for the first time ever, i got so mad and i shouted back. i said that he has to stop using me as a punch bag and that i am not going to let him talk to me like that. after i said that, he packed his stuff to leave. because i actually said something. i was in tears, (pathetic, i know) i should have just let him go. anyways, he didnt end up leaving. he is still here now.. he is moving out next 2 weeks and im moving back to my mothers as i cannot afford to live where i am now.he said we r not breaking up but living apart. he has been so distant with me. he cant stand it if i ask him anything just for general convo. he said i “suck the life out of him” i “talk his ear off” (he expects me to be mute and just sit there). last week when i left the house for a bit to get my head together afte rhe packe his things..i got home and called out for my cat who normally greets me at the door. (b/f was ignoring me as usual, but text me while i was out asking me to buy him take out) couldnt find my cat, so when i asked him where my cat was, he completely flipped out at me. he said “how dare i not acknowlege him when i came through the door and call out for the cat instead” he told me he got rid of the cat and gae me no explanation why. i asked him where the cat was and he said if i ask one more time that he wont be responsible for his actions. i was heartbroken and upset and frightened. he woke me up in the middle of the night to start shouting at me and tell me to smell the carpet and wash it as the cat had peed on it (i imagine he scared him to death and thats why he wet himself, poor thing) he completely broke me down and ruined my self esteem. made me feel worthless and useless without him. he said im pathetic, that im a poor excuse for a person etc. this was at 4am!.. i havent dared ask him about my cat since as im scared.. he has been having intercourse with me but makes me face the opposite way, doesnt say anything, just sleeps with me, satisfies himself and goes to sleep. like im a toy..he text me while i was out few days ago and said “im sorry” cos he was in the middle of sleeping with me and then decided he didnt want to and turned away from me. he lost his arousal and then got angry at me and slept on the couch. all of this as i am wrting is a bad sign, i know, is competely stupid of me not to leave but i cant help but feel despair and anxiety at the thought. he has made me feel so worthless and disgusting that i am afraid.. i have lost every ounce of confidence and self esteem in myself and cannot see through the blur anymore…please help me! my hair is falling out, i have developed psoriasis on my scalp, i cant eat, i dont sleep and im losing weight so fast.. I need advice on how to get out without feeling so muc pain and confusion..im a complete wreck and im so depressed and unhappy..this man was inlove with me for over ten years from ( he was my childhood sweetheart) and now this is how he is treating me. he said if i complain abou thim to my friends or my mom that he will have something to say to each and everyone of us that would make us want to throw ourselves out the window and kill ourselves. HELP ME!!!

    • NML says:

      Miss Confused, as Amy and Brad have suggested you are in an extremely dangerous situation and the key now is to act. I am sorry to hear of the pain you are experiencing – this man is a nasty piece of work on all levels and the key is to get out of this relationship, get this man out of your house, out of your head, and out of your life. You are being abused. Here is a post I wrote a while back about signs of abuse. I am not surprised that you have lost your confidence but what little strength you have used to write this you need to direct to formulating and executing a plan to get out. There is no such thing as getting out of a relationship without feeling pain and confusion, especially an abusive one where the person has bullied you into believing negative things about yourself. Whatever he was before, he’s not that now. He has no control over who you can and can’t complain to – he’s not the invisible man where he can hear and see what you’re doing when you’re out and about. These people operate on control and secrecy. You must confide in someone you trust and you must consult with your local law enforcement and/or a shelter that deals with abuse cases, however it is your home and it’s time to put this man OUT in every sense of the word. And yes, the cat thing shows an extreme indicator of danger and I wouldn’t hang around to find out what else he has in store.

  76. amy says:

    My dear, dear Miss Confused………RUN! Leave this person. NOW He sounds horribly unstable. Whether or not it is medication doesn’t change the fact that it sounds as though you are in danger. Please, please leave. Go to friends, family…a shelter….anywhere; just get far away from him. Don’t tell him where you are going. Your letter gave me chills. I was married to an abuser, I recognize this.
    God bless. Stay safe.

  77. Gaynor says:

    Confused,

    This is frightening!! Listen to Amy and Brad and get out now!!!

  78. Miss Confused says:

    Thank you all so much for your comments..
    I know that he will not be physically abusive towards me as in my opinion , he is too passive aggressive for that.. But im so confused with the ups and downs of the relationship (if thats what u can call it)..its been a week or so now, and for the past few days hes been nothing but nice to me, and tells me he loves me and acts all friendly and chatty.. for th epast couple of days, hes been going out from evening till around 7am.. he just says hes going out with friends, and i dont question him.. but till 7am?! it might be nothing at all and it might be my mind playing tricks on me but i feel jealous and worried that he is seeing other women?,,, im so confused…i feel like it is the begininng of the end but im not sure how to feel or cope..ive been thinking to take anti depressants as i have been sooo miserable for about 5 months now…. i have contemplated suicide on a few occassions but i think of my family first..but i am that miserable and i feel so lost and confused…im in desperation 24 hrs a day…i contsanlty feel like i have a heavy heart and my heeart is always beating so fast it feels like im burning up…
    please help me get over these feelings and do the right thing..i dont feel like anybody around me (family, friends) have been able to give me the right advice..my mom told me to come on this site and chat as she has been through a bad relationship last year…
    im addicted to this man and have a massive fear of my life without him..sorry for the long post.

  79. Gaynor says:

    Confused,

    Have you looked into CODA for co-dependency ?

  80. Sarah says:

    I feel so stupid. I finally worked up the courage to cut off all contact with my ex and then he started sending little emails with requests. I didn’t respond to him and then he got upset and now today I received this email:

    your not writing ok then this was this the last time you hear anything from me you will probably nether find out what happened here but you dont have to know
    i hope you send me the blanket, the other stuff you can keep if you want to
    but i really dont believe that you do anything
    ok then I wish you luck in your life and you also don’t need to think that my feelings for you have changed
    okay then goodbye

    What? I mean…the reason I finally cut off all contact was because for two weeks he stopped writing or emailing me all of a sudden and I thought something happened to him. A week of no contact from him and I tried calling and he shut off his phone. I got really suspicious and finally checked his online account where he always is on and sure enough, he’d been messaging with other girls. This is all after over 2 years of being/living together, the last 5 months long distance and him saying he ‘needed’ me, I was the ‘number one’ person in his life and he wanted to have kids with me/get married.

    He gave some half-ass excuses that I didn’t respond to and now this email.

    And to be honest, even though I just bought the Fallback Girl/Mr. Unavailable book yesterday, I started to wonder what happened to him. What the big ‘secret’ was and was he really still in love with me?

    God no. He’s in love with himself. If there was some big event, if I was so important to him he would have already explained it to me and not have cut off contact without explaination, went out with other girls, and shut off his phone when I was sick with worry and calling him.

    Girls, never trust a guy who tempts you with unknown information to provoke you to ask what’s going on. If it was so important and he wanted you to know, he would say it right out…WITHOUT the games and manipulation to see what he can still get away with. Draw the line, and don’t ever let him cross it again.

  81. Jetred says:

    @NML…

    It’s as if you knew that my “issue” had moved on before I did. It was around March when he actually must have made his final decision between the new woman and myself.

    No…they do not have to say a thing for it to be over. Mine didn’t even blink about leaving me hanging on false hope. I think he just didn’t think it meant anything…he is not concerned with my feelings as long as he is happy with himself and his new found love. I just wish I’d have known before all the emails and IM’s were ignored and I was left to figure it out on my own.

  82. Lisa James says:

    I feel for all women right now. It really sucks to be dumped or sitting wondering did I get dumped? I don’t know which one is worse. I can not wait until a year from now. Maybe I will be free from all of this emotional strife I am feeling now about some guy that really never gave a dam but himself. So many red flags but I chose to ignore them. Make excuses for him and let him do the “rubber band man” thing on me so much that I am suprised the rubber band didn’t break!

  83. Sharon says:

    Bravo! Great post. Now if I can take the advise I will be much better off. I am not quite there yet. I am still hoping that he will wake up and think wow I ruined the best thing that ever happened to me. He won’t and I should not care is the message….I hope reading these posts finally get’s the message in my heart as well as my head!

  84. lisa says:

    I so agree with you on so many levels. I met a guy online, he was hot, sexy and a total manipulator..haha..I feel for it. we talked for hours on the phone about everything everynite. THEN the meeting, it was instant chemistry, he was hot, I was hot, he met my friends, it just felt so right..then we did the nasty..hmmm, changed the whole game..he called the next day, and then two days later, we talked for maybe 5 minutes and then, that was it. Never again did I hear from him nor did I contact him because I read your blogs! haha… thanks for saving my azz… Men are funny, they sit online waiting for you to IM them, NOT happening in my world! Thanx!!

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