*Adopts Sophia from Golden Girls voice*
Picture this, summer 2013. I’m awake at what feels like an unholy hour as Em is away. Just as I’m drifting off again, I hear a notification and curious, I sleepily grab my phone and see a Facebook message from an old friend with only a few ‘bombshell’ words. As you can imagine in my line of work, there’s not much that people tell me that will shock so I had a ‘What the…’ moment… and promptly fell asleep again.
I woke an hour later believing that I’d dreamt the whole thing, but no. Due to bloody Facebook indicating that the message had been read, I sent a quick reply expressing support and they replied immediately asking to talk. Now I’ve gotta admit, it was a bit of a strange one as we’d only been in touch very occasionally.
I agreed to a quick call, stressing that the kids would be up shortly. We had a quick chat where they made some unsurprising revelations and then we got cut off (bloody Skype). Worried, I called back and this time video was showing although due to me using my iPhone, I didn’t notice for a couple of minutes. They said that they could see my ear and asked whether I could see them, and I moved my phone and realised that they were lying in bed naked. I shook my head in disbelief and I heard myself saying, “Um… yeah… I’m gonna hang up now” just as they made a vague attempt at covering themselves while giggling… and then got the cable of their iPhone earphones caught in the crack of their arse. I kid you not.
Laughing but feeling more than a tad unnerved, I called Em. We veered between laughter at the sheer bizarreness of the situation, indignation and a discomforting pity. Em was tempted to call them up but figured it was a waste of time as they’d admitted during the call that they were under the influence of drugs.
A few weeks went by and I got another early morning message asking to talk. I wasn’t falling for that one again – What? So I can get full frontal? Ha! – and declined. It’s not like I’ve never seen any of my friends naked but there’s a time, place, and context and it is weird to ‘see’ a person for the first time in ages with their bits and pieces hanging out plus it was just disrespectful. Sure, I could have told them all about themselves but I don’t really need to explain to an adult why that situation was wholly inappropriate. I know it was and that’s enough. That said, I can’t pretend it didn’t happen, so it’s up to me to be boundaried so that I don’t expose myself (haha) to the possibility of another rerun. I won’t be taking early morning calls or getting caught up in stuff like this due to feeling like I ‘should’ help. I did get an apology via Facebook (I know, I know) although I suspect that they don’t have a full recollection of what happened. They seemed regretful but I’ve returned to our previous state of not being in touch.
We’ve all done things that we regret. It can be difficult in situations where our lines are crossed in such a way, to know whether something is a reflection of overall character or some missteps in the moment or during a difficult period of time. Subsequent situations and actions no doubt reveal this. In my case, this type of thing isn’t a one-off for them in the bigger picture of their life elsewhere – when personalise things deeply, we forget that people have lives and incidences beyond us. If it’s a moment or a rough patch, it doesn’t mean that it’s a statement of the future. That said, there’s only a limited amount of analysis we can devote to other people’s actions especially when we have our own to deal with, plus sometimes you’ve just got to call a spade a spade.
In olden times I would have analysed the crappola out of it or felt as if I’d ‘invited’ this in some way, and that’s how one can end up going down a very dark path of being a blame absorber. I did have to ponder whether there had been an element of a ruse going on but top line: It was inappropriate albeit funny when I see the humour in it plus it felt weird and I felt a level of sadness for the situation but I can’t own their behaviour. Why or how that situation came about is an aside. It happened and it’s OK that I found it inappropriate. They’re my feelings and I say this because so many people tell me that they feel bad for feeling and thinking that something was inappropriate. Why? Recognition and acknowledgement is important. When we don’t do this, we make faulty decisions based on a faulty perspective where we’re too caught up in trying to control the uncontrollable and not feeling or looking a certain way. It’s about judging the situation.
Sometimes when we’re struggling with aspects of life or ourselves, we can end up leaning increasingly on the likes of drugs and alcohol to numb, enhance, or act as an upper. Unfortunately these substances increase the likelihood of regret and in turn we can end up feeling shame and other uncomfortable feelings, and in turn we can have more feelings and thoughts to ‘drown’.
When somebody crosses our boundaries in one of these situations (substances or not), we can be empathetic and recognise that they may be going through difficulties or may have certain habits that are counterproductive to a healthy situation but the key is not to be over empathetic and absorb the blame for their behaviour or keep coming up with all manner of justifications for what’s happening based on how we would see ourselves in the same situation. When we do the latter we’re empathising with ourselves, not them. We may also, by bowling in there and either hogging up the blame or trying to cover up for their behaviour, stop them from experiencing the natural consequences of their actions.
Sometimes you’ve got to ask: If a person’s not making their behaviour their problem and may not even see it as a problem (even if it is), why are you making it your problem?
Situations like this serve as a reminder that other people’s behaviour is very much about them and their beliefs, thoughts, fears, motivations, habits, struggles, etc. Yes, there may be certain things that we can do to ‘see off’ potentially problematic behaviour and situations before they fully unfold by being self-aware and cognisant of code amber and red behaviour but it’s important that we don’t beat ourselves up for not being psychic, more suspicious of even the most ordinary things, or for not having superhuman reflexes. Ultimately, as long as we have an active response by addressing the situation and/or learning from the incident so that it informs how we deal with this person or similar situations in the future, we’re doing the best we can for ourselves at that time and moving forward. We don’t need to be perfect, we just need to be active.
Your thoughts?
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When a friend or loved one says or does something that give me the creeps, I have learned (or I am learning) not to blurt out the first thing that enters my mind. I owe no explanations for the phrase, “I have to go now.”
When I’m hit with something creepy, I give myself permission to take care of myself first, and deal with the creep who creeped me out later.
Sometimes all I have to say is, “Don’t do that kind of creepy shit to me again.”
If I need to get into detail, chances are they won’t listen and wouldn’t know a boundary from a barn door.
I can deal with unbalanced people if I know they have awareness of their issue and are making attempts to repair or recover from it.
Active lunatics? Not so much.
Good luck with this character, Natalie.
You have more patience than I.
“If I need to get into detail, chances are they won’t listen and wouldn’t know a boundary from a barn door.”
Love this Karen! YES! Very rarely does any detail or explaining how to act like a normal human being help or make them suddenly say, “OMG you are right! I’m a changed person, thank you!” 😉 So not worth the energy….This is something new for me I must say. Every fiber of my being wants to TALK and DISCUSS and BE HEARD…I’ve always believed this would help. It really just eats away at me even more because they don’t become the person I wished they were. Stopping and walking away and living my own life how I see fit….can’t f-ing tell you how amazing the long term effects of that are. IT’s hard in the short term but I feel like i’m standing on a much stronger foundation now. Less regret too. I am finding that I truly don’t regret the nasty things I didn’t say back, or whatever tactic normally feels right to make this person see how they hurt me and “should” have acted.
“When I’m hit with something creepy, I give myself permission to take care of myself first, and deal with the creep who creeped me out later.”
This is so smart and self-respecting. Good for you.
It took me a long time to learn to do this myself — I used to think I had to have everything all figured out before I gave myself permission to leave a bad situation. Now, if something feels wrong, I just get myself to a safe place first (literally or metaphorically), and then take the time to figure out what the hell happened, and how I want to proceed in dealing with the person or situation (if at all).
I had a guy pull a creepy move on me late in the game in our dating relationship. I was shocked by it, and though tempted to tell him ALL about himself on the spot, knew that it might end up being more harmful to me, so I just got out on the spot and cut contact. For 18 months, he continued to pester me via email, which I ignored. When I finally felt settled enough to deal with him directly, I shut down his unwanted attention for good — explained that we are not friends, we will never be friends, and why; and then deleted my email account so he’d have no access to me.
But getting the hell away from that toxic situation ASAP was the key decision — the active response. The follow-up later was optional.
Like clockwork, when I get the ding that I have a new email, and it’s from BR, it’s a post very relevant to what has been going on with me!
I was recently ripped to shreds via text through nasty words and accusations by a close relative. This was due to a situation where I had posted an innocent story on Facebook, actually a very cute story about something nice that happened and involved us both, and in doing so, was accused of selfishness, a “self-righteousness bitch”, and called stupid because I had “outed” this person to another romantic partner she is involved with in addition to someone else. This blew me away, hurt me, and halted me. I went through and am still shadow boxing with the big bad blame monster, and the force that is trying to tell me I in fact am all of the things this person called me and I did make a mistake that I owe for. However, I have been treated the same way by this person many times, so all in all could not really surprise me. Using almost two years of BR knowledge, I replied. “I’m sorry this happened. It was not intentional or malicious in anyway. However I will not be taking the blame for a situation involving you and cheating and lying.” I wanted to tell her all about herself, tell her to go to hell. I had to repeat my stance several times, and wouldn’t you know it I was called the self-righteous bitch and just seemed to enrage this person even more when I kept to my boundaries. She is not used to that from me, and doesn’t like it AT ALL. Because she loses control of me. The fact that she has never been able to look at herself, take responsibility for her actions, and live the consequences, is not my problem. I’m not perfect but this has taught me i’m getting stronger.
Bravo to all of us who are learning the lessons of setting boundaries, whether with an Assclown or with anyone else in life who thinks it’s ok to treat us disrespectfully. For ten years I have worked with a woman who habitually lets her everyday work frustrations out on other people in a very abrasive, almost abusive way. After reading many posts here on the importance of setting boundaries, I decided to get busy and apply my knowledge to this situation. Twice in the past week she has tried to “unload” her frustrations and anger onto me using inappropriately abrasive language. Both times I raised my hand and said “stop. You can’t talk to me that way. It’s disrespectful.” when she kept blathering on, both times, I walked away. When she followed me to my office, I went in and shut the door. End of conversation. I intend to do this every time she dumps on me. Other people in my office who are still getting her crap are applauding me. Most importantly, I am proud of myself for putting a boundary in place. She speaks to me respectfully, or not at all. After ten years, I have decided that I AM worth sticking up for!
Oregon,
Good for you!!! Love the door closing in her face!!!! LOL
Hey an update on me the x had spells of nice.We spent my bday together on but my mom had a birthday dinner for me in the weekend and he refused to come said he wasn’t celebrating my bday twice with me.
Downhill it went at that point he was at my house the early part of the day and I only seen him mh days off and he’d stay over sat night.Its painful but I brung this on myself I know.Las t weekend after not hearing from him all day I decided to have a friend over he had bought my kids and me pizza honestly to God he and I are just friends.I wasn’t thinking straight I just wanted the company of someone a friend that makes me laugh.He had to use the bathroom and x walked in and seen him in the house.
He told him to leave.Then x left the next day he punched me in the stomach
Lacy
What are you going to do about it?
Lacy,
What’s the purpose of a Restraining Order if you’re going to invite him in?
This guy has hit and cheated on you, used you for money, tried to pimp you out, the list goes on.
What is it going to take for you to eliminate this piece of shit from your life? When do you consider the influence on your children?
You need to contact an abuse hotline, as this does not seem to end – you have been on the site for a long while going in the same circles.
I’m not going to comment anymore, as I feel as if I am enabling this problem.
Oh Lord, I really needed a Sophia Moment today! Over the weekend, I was asked out on a date that was scheduled for tonight and the dude never followed up with a time and venue. Oy. To add to the skeeve factor, he had sent me a picture of a souvenir from my favorite sports team that he had picked up for me. What a yutz.
I’m not upset about the date (I have only met this guy twice before in a group, so no big whoop there), but I will admit to being worried that he’ll tell mutual friends that he dissed me and I’ll feel awkward if I see him again with the group. This, of course, was followed by me saying to myself, “HOW did you not see that coming?” (What am I…The Long Island Medium?!) Silly, I know. I’ve decided not to take a turn down Paranoia Lane and not worry about things that have not happened yet, may never happen, etc. What I’ve learned from this is that sometimes the first warning flag isn’t a subtle one, but that doesn’t mean there HAS to have been smaller ones that we should have seen. The most important thing is to heed the info and flush!
Natasha,
I don’t think anyone would share that they blew someone off, as they will look like an asshole!
Dodged the bullet!
That’s what I figured too! This is again why it’s important not to get upset about things that actually, you know, happened haha!
I meant “haven’t actually happened”! Oy, so glad it’s Friday 🙂
You are so right Natasha.
I found out today that a guy who is my friend for 9 F*ing months, flirted with me, spend time with(as friends)has a girlfriend. WTF! His friend told me this today. he never mentioned her once. Not once. I don’t get it. WTF???
Confused, if there was a Shady Olympics, this dude would be on a podium getting the gold medal while the National Anthem of Shadyville played in the background. My best guess is that he’s the type that likes to keep his “options open”. Charming, I agree!
A fellow I was exclusively dating went radio silence after a pattern he established of thrice-daily communication. When he went off radar, I texted. Waited hours. Emailed. Waited. Called and got my call declined. The next day, 24 hours later, he came up with a story of his “crazy night” that had more holes than Swiss cheese. Yeah, it was crazy that I actually dated this guy. I told him my friends have more care, concern and respect for me than what he pulled. Apparently we have different values: I value me and he did not. Boundary buster be gone!
Wow, Phoenix. What a cruel guy he is. That story made my skin crawl. Probably because reminds me of my ex
NC is the only option with that disrespectful behaviour
Two words here: Ass. Hole.
On a related note, “Boundary buster be gone!” is a great saying!!
Sometimes I think it´s good to do a little Asperger´s and blurt out something like “you´re naked. I don´t like that” or “you have your earphones up your ass” or simply “this is making me uncomfortable, don´t show me your penis”.
The problem is that we all sort of empathise with the weirdos when they make us feel awkward (and try not to make them feel guilty) instead of just focusing on feeling awkward.
Lilia,
Your comment made me laugh so hard! I have a son with Asperger’s, and I guess I can now see the value of speaking directly and clearly what we are thinking rather than hiding it behind “manners.” I am still chuckling over your comment, and man I really needed a good laugh today 🙂
Reason 592 not to have either an iPhone or a Faceplant account. EWWW! Yep, some behavior is so bizarre, so beyond what we would do, that there is no way of anticipating it. I have taken to reading the archived posts in order to learn about behaviors I’ve yet to but may encounter. Before my marriage, I had only 2 LTRs and realize there’s a lot of weird stuff out there that I was naive about. We do often berate ourselves because we didn’t see or aanticipate a bad behavior. The point is, one should not be treating another badly, period. Yep, in retrospect, there were a lot of things I missed or misinterpreted about the ACs behavior. My misinterpretation made perfect sense at the time. He was gone a lot due to the nature of his job and that he (said) he had rental property in the city, 75 miles away that he was fixing up. He was weird and distant, them warm and kind because he had just lost a favorite relative. These things seemed to be logical explanations for his behavior. Never would I have concluded he was living a double life with another and using me, his colleague for attention, merely an ego stroke. Normal people do not do this, plus it’s a damned rotten thing to do, regardless of any naivete on my part. When I resume dating in the spring (tired of on line plus it’s too dangerous to drive long miles to meet someone), I avoid investing at all emotionally for a long time and date with the understanding that I may have to bail post haste. Too bad one has to be on ones toes all the time, that one has to be stingy with trust but that’s what dating has become.
Whoah. Like whoah. Ew.
arghhhh…Natalie, that experience sounds so uncomfortable, and yeah, I [still] would have analyzed the hell out of it, wondering if there was something weak/wimpy/bizarre about me that invited it. THanks for the reminder to not even go there.
It is soooo very easy to remind oneself–in a firm voice–that someone else’s inappropriate, creepy behavior isn’t our responsibility. All it takes is a clear firm inner voice. So why do we forget?
And you’re right–when these type of things come flying from left field, we tend to beat ourselves up for not seeing it coming and not having a plan.
Now is anybody else here like me, where in this same instance, my pattern would be to not blink, laugh it off cheerfully like an unflappable good sport (cuz I don’t want to look vulnerable or emotional) and save the freak out for later, privately, where I become a paranoid mess?
that’s not a good strategy either…lol.
Maeve,
I would behave as you would but for a different reason. The reality and seriousness of a situation usually doesn’t hit me until later pn. Thus, I would laugh it off at First but then freak out later atthe weirdness & disrespect . (sorry for all typos & spellings, doing this by phone).
Rosie–you know what? Me too. I need time to process. And yet still, my default, until I figure things out is to smile and be a good sport.
What you said made me realize: when I’ve already made up my mind that something’s inappropriate, I don’t hold back or pretend I don’t care.
I think that’s a wiring thing. I think some people take longer to process things.
Perfect timing! I had an old friend stay with me last weekend and the situation was just awkward! Lots of digging around about the state of my marriage, my husband’s salary and rudeness. This was a continuation of past passive aggressive behavior. I know she is in an unhappy place right now in her life but I decided it’s time to let go. I have been having feeling guilty about my decision since I do feel like a friends should stick by each other. However after reading this post I do feel much more at peace. I realize she really hasn’t been empathetic with me. Though I do wish her the best and hope she figures it all out, I really can’t take the boundary busting and aggression anymore. Thank you Natalie.
Great mental refresher. Thanks for this.
This article is so appropriate for me right now in a real estate transaction. I paid cash for a property a few weeks ago and agreed to let prior owner stay for an agreed upon time – in writing with a clause stating they are responsible for maintenance and upkeep- while they move into a house they ‘claimed’ they were buying.
Now that move-out day for them is near they are being total a total jerk, and doing some incredibly odd things including leaving my place completely unlocked while they are not there. Most of their belongings are out so I don’t understand the attitude or actions. I have been over-nice, and accommodating, and asking very few questions – tippy-toeing –
So now, I’m in my “Solution” mode, and even had a conversation a few minutes with a policeman who resides over that neighborhood. I will paint and put new carpet down, and move only a small bed and a few things when I move in, and if things are Strange… then I will continue to rent where I’m now staying and then Sell/ FLIP the house. I’m lucky to afford two households right now and can decide what to do by end of November.
What a shame. I’m not sure I want to live there anymore and a week ago I was excited about it. All looked positive and safe prior to me purchasing. But paying attention to amber and RED flags when they appear is what I’ve been learning about for the past two years. Deep breath. I can Flip this place and make a profit and go to my plan B, C, D…. I am smart and strong and happy. and I’m so glad I’m not applying this article to any AC in my life. I’m AC free. I’m going to the gym tomorrow and work this real estate sadness off, Yes!
ABF
I don’t understand, the issue is with the seller not moving out, not the house?
Surely the answer is to be firm and change the locks?
“change the locks?”
Second that.
Thanks. I’m changing the locks, and I just purchased a home-owners’ insurance policy today.
Nice one. I imagine it’s an unsettling experience. Do you have a lawyer?
I am not sure if this is the case – it sounds like you have already paid in full? If yes, the property is yours:
“The purchaser is entitled to vacant possession of the property as soon as moneys have been paid.”
Maybe consider charging the previous owner rent if they are not making moves to vacate:
“If the possession and settlement dates are different for some reason, the implications of this should be carefully considered prior to finalising your agreement – for example you may need to agree an amount of rent if you are agreeing to take possession some time after settlement.”
Does your agreement with the previous owner include a pre-possession inspection?
“The buyer may inspect the property before the day of possession to ensure that the property is still in the same condition as it was when it you first inspected and that there are no missing or damaged chattels.”
I don’t understand?
They have to be out by a specific date, then you change the locks. You’re the owner!
While I pride myself on being a somewhat aware individual, I could never have prepared myself when my latest XBF when “off the rez” by sending me a lengthy e-mail indicating that “…because I had displeased him, he had to punish me as his lover…” accompanied by a completely depraved description of how many times, and where, he was going to spank me! My first reaction was: Are you on crack? My G/F’s reactions were: Did you just read and “channel” a recent best-seller regarding spanking? When I met up with him to confront him about the crack (he seemed to satisfy about 13 out of 15 criteria, but I’m not a pulmonologist, so I couldn’t verify pulmonary lesions), he, of course, rejected that notion and insisted that “he wanted to try new things”. Of course, I was thinking more of paragliding, as I had already gone skydiving. Needless to say: done with this freak show….next contestant, sign in please!
Brilliant and always a taste of what I need to read or become reaquainted with at the time I get that new email from BR.
So many people are ready to jump on the boundary busting bandwagon…it is so hard to be able to see all of them coming…but it is so empowering when you actually do and are able to say ‘wait a minute..those aren’t my problems..they are theirs’ and leave it at the door.
Thanks Natalie for everything. You seriously are a miracle.
I look forward to all your posts.
Natalie,
I read all your posts and every one of them helps me in some way. I like how down to earth you are. For me this struck a note about “overthinking.” When we were little kids on the playground, if a boy dropped his pants and showed his wahoo, we girls could just shriek and yell, “Gross!” Then run away giggling. Not one of us would have wasted a moment feeling sorry for him or wondering if he had a bad relationship with his mother.
Sometimes I think we over civilize the child in us who has the first response. Recently, I have been giving myself permission to simply NOT LIKE certain people. Never worried about it as a kid. Didn’t make myself wrong. Didn’t have to pray for them: just didn’t play with them!
Laura, this is so true! The innocence we had as children or teenagers seems a thing more dated than the ghost of Christmas past.
I remember when how we could have a new best friend every day in nursery and no one questioned it – every friendship was genuine. Wouldn’t it be amazing if we all maintained that innocence in adulthood?
Ugh. This reminds me of the last guy I was dating. We had yet to have had sex but would hang out regularly at his houae. Bad move on my part granted as we kept having rows about how imtimate we would go. On one occasion, we were watching TV and he wanted to take his pants off, boxer and all, and he did. As it was still the early stages this made me feel uncomfotable and I asked him to put them back on. This led to a row of course, with him explaining that he likes to be “free” and that it’s his house etc., and I was left questioning..who exactly had overstepped the boundary, me?, for asking him in his own house to be dressed in my presence as we were not being intimate and it made me feel weird..or him? It was my belief that if you have guests in your house that you should respect them but it was hard flr me to figure out who was right or wrong at the time. But it was a warning for me as it took him a while to heed my wishes, he didn’t seem to care how I felt. We’ve since broken up as all we did was fight over stuff similar to the above.
Amelie
I shouldn’t laugh but I’m afraid I did!
Does he hang his d*** out when his mum/sister/boss/guy friends visit? I do hope so. Underwear is such a drag. After all, it’s his house- right?
Right.
Just imagine what kind of petri dish this guy’s couch is.
There was nothing in this for you from the get go, but what you could GIVE HIM. He had nothing to offer but the E. coli growing on his couch.
Amelie,
I wonder what he´d say if you told him you want to poo in his bathroom but with the door open because you need to feel free as well?
Amelie and others, Oh My God! That man/thing is a douche bag. Laughing my bottom off!
I didn’t recognise many potential issues of friends. When one of my friends would refuse to look at me when she spoke, and instead focus on everyone else in the group, it hurt like hell. Or I would walk up and she’d tighten the circle of people.
I used to think I just timed it badly and she was busy explaining something and I was being rude, but oh no, she was being plain rude and I decided enough was enough – she is now an occasional hi-bye friend and will remain so.
On a separate note, I walked past a homeless man today, struggling with the groceries I can barely manage to afford anymore and decided to give him my entire back of four fruit&nut cadburys.
He needed it more and it was amazing just to see him smile and kindly thank me. It’s the little bit of kindness I love receiving.
That’s great karma for you. 🙂
@Mymble
It is humourous looking back but more stomach turning for me I’m afraid. I think, he was trying to appeal to me somehow, oddly. It just made me feel like he was a bit disrespectful and pervy.
Need to work on exiting these situations quicker rather than trying to explain myself to these blank-faced bafoons.
I regret only one thing THAT I WASTED ALMOST SIX YEARS OF MY PRECIOUS LIFE ON two ACs/losers who did not deserve 5 minutes of my attention!!!
Natalie,
Oh goodness!!!!! LOL!
Wishing you restful nights!
For two years I have been dating a man who is separated (but not divorced), a big drinker, a gambler, and who is verbally abusive. I didn’t know any of this at first, these things just started to pop up and get worse and worse over time. I put up with a lot of crap from him because he is a very handsome ship captain and I kept thinking he was such a great catch. But then I started to realize after a year that he did not treat me with respect, love, trust, and care. I found myself alternating between anxiety and depression. I started to get headaches, stomachaches, chest pains, etc. I found this site and knew I had a lot of work to do in order to re-claim my own happiness. I would break up with him, and take him back. Break up, take him back. The final straw came last week. After drinking 12 beers and two whiskeys, he got mad at me for nothing at all and called me a “f****** c****”. In fact he yelled it at me, loud enough for the neighbors and for my daughter to hear. Finally I saw the light. Finally I took action. “any man who calls me that does not deserve to have me in his life,” I said. I put all his things on the front porch, locked my door, and told him he was never welcome at my house or near me ever again. Of course he keeps texting and calling me. He says that he didn’t say it (liar!) or that I misunderstood him (liar!). But I am standing in my truth and not getting sucked into his BS. Finally I am free of that assclown. It feels good. Please wish me luck as I try to rebuild my health and my sanity. I need all of you around me for support!!
Oregon Girl- Wow! Congratulations for standing up to him! Also, congratulations for setting such a wonderful example for your daughter! 🙂 🙂 🙂
Thank you Rosie and Little Star. It is nice to get an “atta girl” on that. Stupid me I am still missing him and (almost) waiting for him to show up on my doorstep…but I am DETERMINED not to get into that dance again. No means No. I have put a boundary in place. I know that putting this boundary in place will boost my self esteem, make me happier in the long run, and make it easier for me to have a successful relationship with a good man in the future. PS my daughter’s comment: “good job mom, you finally dumped that drunk jerk. Now don’t take him back this time!!!” 🙂
Been feeling verr-rry sad, very lonely, very alone, very frustrated by work & life this week. So I broke NC by lazy texting “missing u” to AC from my phone on a Tuesday afternoon. Thing is, I really don’t want him, but still I feel I am missing him. We had a sex thing and I have no sexual desire for him anymore and I got sad about that. My one “fun” outlet is closed down. I used to be “crazy” for him, kind of like teen idol worship. And now that I can see the reality of him, I miss being crazy for him.
I am riding the moods. I am doing “meetups”, I go to technology meetups, and almost did not go to one I paid for on Saturday because I was so down, knew I’d be the old person in a room full of youngsters – and I was, and I was confused by the new tech, but I did win the raffle for the manual that went with the class.
At work I am dealing with being marginalized by a manager with an axe to grind, but I Googled
“marginalization” and experts said don’t allow yourself to feel like a victim so I did become a little more proactive about keeping my hands in a project that the manager is doing his best to wrest from me. Thing is, I know my ideas are good because every time I mention one he leans forward. I’m no “Bill Gates”, but I do good work and it has rarely gotten me promoted.
To Tinkerbell, I am the one with the NPD coworker who is doing a “reign of terror” on me. Sometimes I get so tired of the ongoing annoyances. But I can tell my coping mechanisms drive her to distraction – she is always calculating new ways to annoy.
I am at loose ends. Trying to stay one step ahead of full-force depression.
Oregon girl, I posted this here because I know you are fighting the slide back to your AC. What you are missing is what I am missing, I think. We like being “crazy in love” for a handsome man. I am 4 months “No-Seeing-AC”…not quite NC…and I can say I feel a WHOLE lot better than I did in the early stages of NC. Stay the course. It is not a steady ascent to feeling better, but an up-and-down path to feeling better. I have no bad memories of the AC except for bad uncaring sex, and I am struggling. A verbally abusive AC is clearly a” flush him and don’t look back” situation. Stop looking to him to add dimension to your life.
Elgie,
Have you considered meds? Are you seeking another job?
The AC is not going to make you better, if anything, he will make you worse. You said that it was simply a sex thing, but the sex was awful. What are you missing?
I hope the Meet Ups are helping. Have you tried volunteering, it can be very rewarding and a great outlet for meeting new friends?
It sounds like you are in a bad place. Please seek some help.
Went looking for another post and saw these responses …..thanks.
Allison, I am sure you mean well, but your response – was it a veiled put-down? Meds? Really? I AM seeking help by writing my thoughts here. One reason I am attending meet-ups is to find my way to a new viable career-path.
After “lazy texting” I immediately felt much better….don’t know why. I did not seek a response…did not care if he responded…did not check for responses. I just needed to feel like there was SOMEONE out there just for me. At that moment, sitting in a doctor’s waiting room, feeling so alone, regretting some general life choices…I just needed to feel like someone other than parents cared for me. I needed the illusion.
Wasn’t trying to reset or restart.
Volunteering and “joining” has left me feeling very lonely in the past. So many times I am alone in a crowd. Just haven’t found my place yet.
Anyway, that black mood passed. No harm, no foul.
Hi Elgie,
Looking back over pat posts I saw that YOU were the one with the gum-popping co-worker. Somehow I sense that situation is going to be resolved to your advantage esp. since she annoys others also. Be patient.
Now, I have a bone to pick with you. WHY did you text him if you don’t really want him? It’s very unhealthy behavior. I understand feeling lonely, but, if he is no good for you, leave him ALONE. This “lazy NC” idea that you have just does not work. You’ve got to commit to full on NC and stick to it. I think your problem is that you’re unwilling to deal with the discomfort. That’s why you feel you’ve got to act. Don’t do it, Elgie. When you feel like you want to connect with him, distract yourself and find something better to do with your time. We’ve all been through it or are currently going through it. Do you know how many times I’ve resisted the temptation to call or email Petie? PLENTY. But I just won’t do it, because my dignity is more important to me. And he isn’t even an AC. He’s a very good man who just isn’t good for ME. This dude of yours is the not the be all and end all of your life. You know this already and you still can’t break free? You will when it becomes important enough to you. I know it’s harder for us older women because we feel like time is rapidly running out. But, that doesn’t change the facts of the relationship(t). Hell, I KNOW I’ve had my last chance and I’m a lot older than you. But, still I just refuse to lower my standards and bust my boundaries, because no matter how much you do that it will never change HIM. Please try harder to get over him. Best wishes for your strength and resolve.
Dear Tink, I was all in my own world and now after reading your comment I am concerned about you;( Are you ok? Xx
Oregon Girl, good riddance! Don’t allow this loser to come back to your life, stay strong honey, we are here for you xxx
Oregon,
Glad you’re out!
Time to understand why you stayed in this abusive relationship. Please check out CODA for co dependents.
Good luck!!!!
Oregon Girl, whether you are a Christian or not, I believe you are a child of God. HE is your father…YOU are ROYALTY. NOBODY TALKS TO YOU LIKE THAT. EVER.
“good job mom, you finally dumped that drunk jerk. Now don’t take him back this time!!
Your DAUGHTER told you this. YOU are supposed to teach HER what is acceptable and what is not. Make sure this time you back up your words. She will never trust you in the future if you don’t.
Can I just ask what it is you miss? Is it the headaches, the stomach aches, the anxiety, the fights, the name calling, the degradation, the disrespect, that he is STILL MARRIED? What do you miss?
You would not let ANYONE treat your precious daughter like that. YOU are worth taking care of and protecting as well.
STAND YOUR GROUND. YOU CAN DO THIS.
Ugh the need that some people have to let it hang out…so manipulative and weird.
A few years ago I had this aquaintance friend who was ina bad marriage. One time I went over and her husband was walking around in his boxers…it freaked me out. She acted like it was just slightly weird. She told him to put some pants on as I was a guest. An hour later he comes downstairs and opens up his robe to fake flash me. Ick. Still thankfully wearing boxers but still…the guy is 62! Can we say letch. I was so annoyed that I just let. It go and acted like it was no big deal. A week later he was texting me….
I will be honest…it made me angry at her as well. What kind of person lets their husband act that way? We are not in touch any more. Her lack of boundaries made me really uncomfortable. Maybe that is cold but I don’t want people like that in my life.
Just gotta say, Dancing Queen, that acquaintance did not “let” her husband do anything….she has no control over his lechery..none of us have control over others behavior. He was a stone boundary buster.
I have a client who was masterbating one day when I showed up at the usual time. I pretended not to see, then later, he sent me an email saying he was sorry, and I just laughed it off, and said “It’s no big deal, I’ve seen it all”.
It’s so stupid cause I need the money from this client. He is a little weenie, and a shrimp, and if I had to beat him up I could.
but if I didn’t need his money, I’d tell him to go to hell
Pinkpanther- I know exactly what you mean. It’s easy to stand up for ourselves when we have nothing to lose but a loser but it’s something else when it involves having to pay our bills. I don’t mean the bills that build up from that vacation last month hut survival. It’s not always so simple when conflicting needs are involved (psychological need of honoring boundaries & physical need of having roof over one’s head…).
Hi Nathalie,
I think you should get rid of these bunch of perverts. I’m surprised you know these kind of people. If they do it again get a restraining order! x
When I was six years old, I was at school playing in the schoolyard when, across the street of the school, a man stopped his car, got out of the car, and flashed me. I was playing alone. (Little Rev got bullied so I had probably told them to all go to hell and that’s why I was twirling on the parallel bars by my lonesome.) Anyway, back to the story: even though I wasn’t quite sure what was going on, or why this experience gave me a swirly feeling in my stomache, I immediately went to an adult and reported it. Of course, it led to all sorts of craziness, as during that time in the Bay Area, there was a rapist on the loose, and so the cops came and questioned me (male cops, and they questioned me without a parent present! WTH?) But I never saw that guy again, nor did I have any problems after that. But the point is, even as an innocent child, you have a sense of what’s right and wrong, what’s appropriate and inappropriate. You have a sense, even from across the street, of a person who has weird, obscure, harmful, selfish motives. We need to keep that sense of intuition alive as adults.
Maybe this guy is why I’m still single. Sheesh. 😉
Rev,
I had an adult cousin ( my dad’s first cousin) ask me if I wanted to do “kissy kissy” with him while he took me on a nature walk. I was 8, he was in his 30’s. I knew it was wrong because it made me uncomfortable and I remember being afraid of him. I just wanted to go back to the house while he wandered around with me on his shoulders in the woods. I told my Mom and remember her being upset but don’t know what happened after that. He had mental issues and spent subsequent years institutionalized for being violent. The memory is vivid, even today, 35 years later.
I have 2 friends who are now blowing hot and cold, ever since I had a “talk” with them about gossiping behind my back. I found it hurtful and disappointing. Especially, with 1, who I’ve known for 8+ years. Interesting to watch their reactions when I asked them WHY? 1 was surprised and said, wow, seeing another side to you.
Been realizing that I allow a lot of people in my life to use me for advice, shoulder, prop. Not necessarily reciprocated. So, I asked myself? Why am I feeling like I have to play this less than role? Why do I want to be a victim? It’s exhausting. Time to be done with that. All comes back to childhood, self-esteem issues and weak boundaries. All of which I’m addressing in therapy.
OMG..Today I realized that ‘Confused’ is the perfect name for me. Oye!
The guy who has been flirting with me for 9 months but has yet to ask me out has a GF. WTF!
What is wrong with these guys? What is wrong with me? I give up. I find it depressing that no one has asked me out in over a year. I HATE HATE online dating as I feel like they treat me like an option. I don’t have many friends who can introduced me to single guys.
I think I meant to be single for the ever. Any advice?
Hi confused123,
Flirting is fun and this guy probably thinks you’re cute so he flirts with you. Are you just taking it a tad too seriously? If a guy is interested he’ll flirt and then ask you out, if he doesn’t he’s not that interested and either has a wife/girlfriend somewhere so don’t get your nickers in a knot over guys who don’t ask you out. They really aren’t worth worrying your head over, simple as that!
It sounds like you are having a fantasy about this guy but the reality is very different, after 9 months he’s not asking you out and making any moves to see you on a regular basis. Dump him, go NC and let him waste his time flirting somewhere else, he’s not your friend either so don’t fall into that trap. You don’t owe him one damn thing.
In fact any guy who isn’t making an effort to call, take you out on dates regularly and follow up quickly to see you again isn’t worth one minute of your precious time. Believe it because it’s true.
Get picky with your online dating, go with the guys who sound like they could be genuinely looking for a girlfriend and get rid of the rest of the creeps. You will probably reject most of them but you never know when a nice guy will pop up so keep your options open.
Maybe light, fun and a little flirty yourself?
Pauline/Amelie:
You are absolutely right! It should not take 9 months to ask a girl out. I’ve known couple who have met and married in less time. I guess I’m disappointed. We’ve talked about most everything out there but his girlfriend never ever came up. Not once and yes, I had a fantasy in my head. He is a decent guy but I not sure what is going on here. Irrespective of what is going on with him what I do know is,
a) He has a girlfriend,
b) He’s not truly interested hence not asking me out,
c) I refuse to be an option,
d) Need to go NC ASAP (This will be hard as we are on the same co-rec football team)
e) Realize that he was a fantasy and I need to put fantasy where they are…In fairytales.
BTW, I love this.
“In fact any guy who isn’t making an effort to call, take you out on dates regularly and follow up quickly to see you again isn’t worth one minute of your precious time.”
Not sure about online dating and if I am ready. If this guy and my reaction to him is a test of readiness, I feel I failed badly and need to learn a few more lessons prior to dating PERIOD.
Hi confused123, good for you girl, you’re right on track and you won’t be confused for much longer after ticking off your to do with flirting guy list, good stuff!
I had to get some solid boundaries in place before I stuck my toe in the dating pool again. I’m not getting lots of dates and that’s ok, I can spot the creeps, weirdo’s, assclowns and EUM’s coming a mile off now and I don’t get involved, no more drama, no more BS, no more people pleasing, no more being a doormat, no more fantasising. Feet in reality and I go with what is. Feels pretty good.
Confused,
Why do you need to go NC, he didn’t try anything? Just don’t be so intimate, and limit your engagement. Don’t put so much energy into this.
Allison:
Limiting engagement IS as a form of NC. NC is about protecting your self from hurt and there are various shades of it based on the situation. So your question baffles me.
As for him not trying anything that is not fully true. He was leading me on BIG time for who knows what reason. Did you read what I posted? I admit that fantasy did play a lot in my behavior but at the end of the day I will do what I need to protect myself and when I am confused or hurt I post here for positive/blunt but kind feedback that helps me learn.
Confused,
Limited engagement IS NOT a form NC. NC is no contact.
You mentioned that he didn’t ask you out or make any moves, it was simple flirtation. I’m sorry if you perceived it as something more.
Limited engagement IS a form NC.
How would you expect people who were in relationships with AC or in toxic relationship who work together act post breakup? OR those who have kids with AC interact with them act? Pack up and leave town? Quit their jobs?
NC is limited engagement for those who interact with each other due to certain circumstances. Natalie even has a post on it.
Here are Nat’s words on the NC rule:
https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/breaking-up-and-moving-on-by-cutting-contact-part-1/
I suggested that you do LC with the guy, as you had no romantic relationship with him.
Children and the work environment are different, as you cannot go NC with these individual. This is called low contact. The terms are not interchangeable.
@Confused123,
I feel you on this, I’m in a similar boat, I’m 29 next week and I can’t even find a guy who will wear a pair of bloody pants (see story above).
The main advice I can give, well first, drop that guy if you already haven’t. But remain confident, calm and build a wall so that this behaviour does not affect your sense of self. Easier said than done. But it is crucial because I find myself, I tend to atrract arseholes the most when I am in an anxious state regarding my relationship status. Don’t even give this dude a further thought, onto the next, he obviously has issues.
It’s hard, society gets you there and it’s getting on top of me lately. That guy without the pants I would not have considered a year ago as he has a questionable past, but I find out of fear of being single FOREVER that I am being more flexible in terms of who I give my time to. Be careful of falling into this trap, all it does is waste time. Sigh, I even had a guy during the summer outline to me a timeline for my fertility potential telling me that I am “cutting it fjne” in terms of time, and an aunt suggesting I freeze my eggs.
All you can do is keep calm and don’t let the worry affect your choices, and chances. With online dating my massive tip is to secure a meeting early in the exchange. If they are dragging it out cut them off and next them.
Amelie,
There is a lot of freedom that comes from being young and childless (and single to boot). Try to enjoy it! I have lots of friends and family members who are having their first children around the age of 38, and they had no trouble becoming pregnant and their babies are happy and healthy. That means, if you want, you could have nearly a decade to find a great guy and live your life before having a baby.
This article indicates that the stats put forward about women and fertility are based on outdated information:
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2013/07/how-long-can-you-wait-to-have-a-baby/309374/
Thanks @ A,
It’s something that I never thought I’d have to worry about, but since people have become so blatant with their remarks it is increasingly brought to my attention. It started at 27. I’d like to meet someone eventually but I have a lot of shit to work through before I can trust my choices in men.
Amelie,
Try to tune these people out. Those comments are inaccurate and unhelpful. You’ll do things in your life in your own time, and if and when you have kids it will be when and if it’s right for you.
I think our parents generation generally had children a lot younger (say, 20-25), so maybe that’s where the comments are coming from. It’s ridiculous for anyone to put pressure on you. 1) You are young, you have lots of time. 2) It’s not as though you should just get pregnant by the next guy who comes along for the sake of having a child by some particular age that *someone else* thinks is ideal; 3) It’s not really anyone else’s business. It’s your life. Hell, not every woman even *wants* to have children in the first place.
I did nc and a restraining order and hewould come by the house but outside in his car and then he started sending messages thru facebook thru mutal friends.
He said some good things and I got back attached. Its like an addiction like drugs or something its bad for u but it feels good like smoking.I don’t do either one honest to God.
A week ago he said that he did something to me he learned to make me not be able to leave him and he was joking but I think its true, or maybe my mind is just too weak.He said if wasn’t so complaining and nagging and needy of time with him he wouldn’t treat me this way.
I did nc and a restraining order and hewould come by the house but outside in his car and then he started sending messages thru facebook thru mutal friends.
He said some good things and I got back attached. Its like an addiction like drugs or something its bad for u but it feels good like smoking.I don’t do either one honest to God.
A week ago he said that he did something to me to make me it hard and impossible to leave me alone.I think its true or maybe my mind is just too weak.
Yes, Confused123,
There is a lot of knowledge in, and I say if to myself…if you behave like an option you will be treated as one. My thing with the last guy started out with him calling me, bringing me out on dates, actually bringing a gift to one of our first dates, and he would say that HE was the lucky one to be with me. But I wasn’t at a good place at the time, was feeling insecure and panicked at not having achieved enough for my age.unmarried, crippled in bills..and thus the tables turned. One day he said he loved me, couple of days later I coax him to leave his house to meet me where he proceeded to tell me that if I failed the college exams I just did he wouldn’t be able to “look at me in the same way anymore”. I think the impression you have of yourself yields the attitude that you will get from these specific types of men. You need to be the right person before you can get the right person. You seem to know what to do. The guy you chatting to may have been decent to some degree but is not right for you, especially not if he seeks validation from other women outside of his relationships.
Well…a lot of water has passed under the bridge since he decided to chase someone else which did not last, and I persisted in sticking my hand in the fire by staying in contact. He started to talk about starting over again, giving it another go, moving with him to another country. I said no…it is too much, there needs to be boundaries on this…let’s just hang out and see how we go. So we met up for a few days on neutral ground …had a nice time together, slept with each other and I thought things were going reasonably ok. But at the airport he started to pull back from me…I was a bit teary and am usually like this when I say goodbye. He wanted us to be more open with each other and I mentioned that I get jealous and could not accept him with another woman…he said his mother used to get very jealous of his girlfriends and she affected his friendships….so he did not want possession like we did before as that did not work, but he wants to have friendships that are not affected by me and that don’t affect me. He came to see me as he said he was worried about me and now he can see I was ok (???) I said oh you want to sleep with other women ok, then I am not interested in this at all …no…he was not sure what would happen..he wanted to see how it went with us and if it did not work out then that was ok and if it didn’t, then that was ok too. I said I was not going to be the option again until something better came along….how do I feel? Sad, angry at his flip flopping, and effing with my head again but understand that this man will NEVER grow a pair of balls and NEVER change (even though he said he wanted to – all just damn lies).
As I peal back the various levels of my sucking up my own needs and trying to be liked and blah blah so that I ignored certain things, I am seeing some patterns that are bothering me with one longer term friend who I have shared a lot with including the tragic early death of her only daughter. We have gone through a lot of life changes together and I think she is has been a supportive and caring friend in many many ways. As I have been to her.
She is also in a long term marriage which has had many ups and downs and she was upset when I separated but has been fairly supportive to me although I think she finds it difficult as there are parallels in her life and lately I am finding she isn’t really that interested. My gut feeling is that she feels I should just “suck it up.” (as she does in a lot of ways). She is retired and I work full time and am very engaged in my work so that is another difference She travels a huge amount now and she seems to be extremely busy with social and family engagements and in the last few months more and more I am feeling she is “fitting me in” to her schedule because she is so “busy” – like odd times later at night or setting times a week in advance, or “I’ve got 30 minutes” type of thing before I go out kind of thing. I miss our talks and I miss her. I am very busy myself but hate to use that excuse with close friends because it is kind of a one upmanship and I can always find time for good friends. Some of this actually feels a bit like ac behaviour and doesn’t feel respectful or caring. But am I overreacting because I feel vulnerable? Good long term friends are important to me! And THEN I think no damn it you are reacting properly …your gut is sending up a red flag. And this may reflect issues that have always been IN the relationship…which I ignored because I was willing to just accept her timing and not make too many demands – which I think IS true. So I did write her an email this morning…saying I missed talking to her and how important lour conversations are…and gave her some times that pretty much consistently worked for me…but I am not feeling optimistic. I am seeing things differently in ALL my relationships these days.
Tinkerbell,
I just went through all the comments on the last few posts to search for all of yours and find out how you were doing (been out for a few days).
I hope you’re better, honey. And I do hope that you realise that we all have time to be happy still and you will find the light to guide your path into the future.
Take care of you right now and hugs xx
Just her,
Looking back over posts, I just found yours. Thank you so much. I’ve posted lots more in the coming blogs. Can’t seem to stop talking about this because it’s such an unusual and perplexing situation that, of course, I’ve never experienced before, and I’m the only person on here who has. But I do plan to get to a final resolution very soon as you’ll see. Thanks so much for thinking of me. xx Tink.
Confused123,
Yep, it IS confusing. I can´t make sense out of male behaviour so I just decided that is how they are and to focus on protecting myself.
I´ve been in a similar situation as you describe: a guy doing the flirty thing with me (for about 6 months now) while he has a girlfriend. In the beginning, when I didn´t know about the GF, my hopes went up a bit. He did seem quite reliable because he has a nerdy streak so you´d never imagine he was a player.
I was completely flabbergasted when I met his GF. He behaved like a devoted boyfriend in her presence. And she was really sweet with him, I had the feeling he didn´t deserve that. But anyway, after that I quickly stepped back (Thank You BR!!), erased any hopes I had and ignored the flirting from then on.
The weird thing is that this makes him even more interested in me. I´ve become intriguing, it seems, simply because I lost interest. A while ago I found him staring at me, with something like lust. I just raised my eyebrows and then looked away, it made me a bit uncomfortable to be honest. I don´t want to get involved in another AC mindfuck so I decided he is out of bounds.
It does make me wonder about human – and especially male – nature, though.
Hey Elgie
This is my advice albiet late…lazy nc breaking, especially for someone you lost interest in, is like eating random unflavorfull stuff in the fridge due to boredom. Hang in there. Sometimes you just ha ve to ride out negativity sometimes.
Re: your comment on my post. You are right that she could not control his behavior. But she should be responsible enough, knowing his creepiness, not to jnvite people around him. Ick!
@Lilia,
Well, I’d never because I have shame. 🙂 Not that I have anything against nudity but it should be something that all involved feel comfortable with. I couldn’t imagine inviting a new partner to my house and then just taking my pants off, and keeping them off when asked politely to put them back on. It was such a struggle to get him to out them back on; he was behaving as if I had busted *his* boundary. All in all, we just didn’t get each other, I could explain all day why something upset me and it just wouldn’t get through. That was one of the early signs though not just because of how odd it was but also his lack of consideration for me.
Elgie,
I did mean well .
Your comments about being sad as well as your moods being all over the place were concerning. I know you’re having difficulties with work etc.., I suggested as an option, as it has been helpful to move from a temporary slump. They were helpful when my brother passed.