During my childhood, my mother spouted off a number of ‘amusing’ sayings including “Those who can’t hear will feel”, “Don’t fly past your roost”, and the very annoying, “Would you jump off a bridge if someone told you to?” I’m often reminded of the latter when people share what can only be described as their ‘shady stories’ with me where they’re blamed for the other person’s wrongdoings or the fact that their actions failed to match their words. I’ve heard from people who’ve spent years feeling wounded by some bullshit (BS) excuse dressed up as a ‘logical’ reason that was used on them.
Just because someone gives a reason, or should I say excuse for why they’ve done something, it doesn’t make it so.
When you start agreeing with this BS, you’re essentially offloading your own truth, morals, and values in favour of their perspective. They can give a reason / excuse but it doesn’t have to be accepted or believed. You still have your own judgement and nobody should be able to come along and tell you that up is down and have you signing on to their perspective. If you’ll question the hell out of your existence with each thing that someone says, you’ll be in an emotional hell which is all the more reason why you can take protective cover by having a reasonable level of self-esteem.
Of course there are some people out there who over a period of time with what can only be described as mind effery, they manage to weasel their way into your psyche with their chop-chop-chopping and they drain you of your strength so that you don’t really have anything left to fight back with or leave. You end up believing them because when they made their first ‘chip’, it created an opening for them to say and do more things to mess with your head where you essentially end up doubting you.
Aside from very unpleasant abusive folk, who incidentally tend to sneak up on you because they’re not likely to roll out their true selves immediately otherwise you’d bolt, there are people who just basically have Very Dodgy Reasoning because they don’t tend to take responsibility and accountability for their own actions and they also have a Very Dodgy Perspective to base the reasoning on. They may very well believe it because they may have a rather convoluted framework of reality and truth that they’re working off. They believe certain things and as we’ve all discovered, when we believe something, we find all sorts of ways to legitimise that perspective even if there’s plenty of other evidence out there that highlights an alternative and disputes this indisputable truth attitude that we may be going around with.
It’s not about them being a ‘bad person’; it means you’re incompatible because on the personal values front, which is about character and essentially who you are as a person including your morals, you clash.
Just because someone says something, it doesn’t make it so.
We are all living in our own realities and we feel at our most ‘harmonious’ around people who share similar values and outlooks. What we think, how we feel, and what we do, ultimately shapes our outlook, our perspective and also whether or not we’re going to buy into BS in the first place.
Some people are very acclimatised to very high levels of drama and chaotic lives. I used to have a very high tolerance for BS making it easy for me to be the high absorbency blame kitchen roll in people’s lives because I was used to being around people who had an attitude of, “If I said or did something wrong it’s because you made me”.
We’re just not that powerful. If you’re operating under the misconception that you’ve ‘provoked’ a good Samaritan into behaviour that would have me slamming down a gavel saying “This is an open and shut case of assholery, judgement in favour of the plaintiff” you really are thinking that you’re that powerful.
Don’t perpetuate this pervasive tendency in society of judging you or others for someone else’s wrongdoing. We live in a time when people commit crimes and we’re judging the victims. We wonder what they forgot to do, or question why they were dressed a certain way, or poke into their background as if this lessens the responsibility of the criminal while burdening the victim.
Funny enough, when people tell me about how they’ve been beating themselves up for weeks, months, years or even decades over some BS justification that they were clobbered with and I ask, “Do you believe that it’s someone’s fault if they’re beaten, raped, or cheated on?”, they’re horrified and immediately and emphatically say NO, so it’s time to ask ourselves why we think it’s OK to accept BS reasoning for boundary busting behaviour?
You might think that yours are ‘different’, more ‘provoke-able’, or ‘lesser’ problems than beating, cheating and rape, but the thing is that buying into BS paves the way to more of it so that when you develop a tendency for listening to dodgy reasoning, when something really big happens, you will blame you for it too. You will also find that all of the ‘small’ and ‘medium’ sized things that you assign you the responsibility of gradually build up and you end up fatigued.
Be careful: the reasoning that you accept or apply to others can inadvertently communicate the wrong messages about you and distort your own values.
Accepting bullshit excuses that put the blame on you for the wrongdoings of others to justify their even more bullshit behaviour is to suggest that you believe that other people’s shady and even assholic behaviour is ‘acceptable’ or at least justifiable if it’s ‘provoked’ by a person’s worth or some sort of failure on their part.
That’s bullshit.
Would you treat someone without love, care, trust, and respect and then blame them for it and even throw them a BS excuse to justify your actions? If you wouldn’t, don’t BS yourself any further by going against your own values and buying into someone else’s dodgy reasoning.
Your thoughts?
About the Author:
Natalie Lue is the founder and writer of Baggage Reclaim and author of the books Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl, The Dreamer and the Fantasy Relationship and more. Learn more about her here and you can also follow her on Facebook and Twitter - @baggagereclaim .
Natalie (NML) – who has written 1084 posts on Baggage Reclaim by Natalie Lue.
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Thank you lady’s!! I am really struggeling with this decision if i want to give her another chance. She wants me back but this was not the first thing that hurt me, there was braais with her family that i just have to accept not going to because her family will never know about her being gay either..she is a flirt but i asked her to please stop because this is one of my core values and she said she would, but didnt. i trusted her do be loyal to me and in my eyes she wasnt, she says everybody does it and it is just silly games this is who she is..everybody makes mistakes. yes i agree everyone makes mistakes but she knew how i felt about flirting and i know the diffrence between inocent flirting and trouble seeking flirting so do i forgive her and take another chance on my terms? i dont know if she will make an effort and for how long because she told me she will just tell her next girlfriend that she does flirt and hopes the next girl will accept that about her..i know flirt and deneying you are in a relationship is a fatal combination but she looks sorry and regretfull.
they say everybody deserve a second chance, is this stuff a deal breaker for a second chance guys?? we lived together for about 8 months, i moved out and she is willing to have this relationship with us not seeing each other in the week but only weekends beacause she also have a son of 16 years old and he also made this difficult to work out. so i must be prepared to live apart for about 6 years till we will have a chance again to begin with our life’s together, sounds convienient to me..doesnt it? im 34 and she is 45..
Whaaaat? You’ll have to wait for 6 years? And wait for what? She already tells you about what she would tell to her *next* girlfriend!!! Do you really need any more evidence you are willing to wait for a person that doesn’t really want to be with you?
rita,
you won`t be happy until you live authentically. That won`t happen with a partner who does not respect you and your boundaries and is not authentic herself.She won`t admit to her family that she is gay ? At 45? Once, I had to hide in an actual closet for several hours because an AC needed to hide me from his family and friends. Don`t do it!! And she is the type of a flirt that is one teeny tiny step away from a player. She has not made a mistake, this is how she authentically is. If you let her back in it will equal trampsing all over your own boundaries and its a slippery, denial filled slope from there. The waiting….Lau-ra said it.She sounds very NOT special!
This who she is, she will not change!
It sounds like you are making a lot of excuses and sacrifices for this woman. What do you get?
If you are openly out, and she is not, this can not work.
Rita, it sounds like she gets a lot of benefit, and you do not. You’re not on the same page. I say move on, or you will be forever disappointed, with the separation issue – which is ridiculous – and her constant attention seeking – due to her own insecurities, which can definitely lead to cheating. She is a big drama maker!
Rita, this woman knows that her flirting bothers you — and yet she continues to do it! Someone who truly cared about you would not continue to behave in a way that she knows is hurtful to you. She looks sorry and regretful? Just an act. If she were really sorry about hurting you — then she’d stop hurting you.
She has nothing to offer you but melodrama, manipulation, selfishness, and mindfucking. You deserve better.
@fallback no more
Story of my life!! OMG, the Martha Stewart-Marilyn Monroe-Mother Theresa combo was so me juggling all his “criteria”. X’s wife does this, and Y’s wife does that. Oh, they’re so perfect!
The difference is that we’re just separated now, under one roof until I can find a place to move out. We have 2 boys and he uses the same techniques with them, especially the elder; 11 who has one of the most responsible and sensitive characters of his age. Seeing the ex doing to our children so maliciously what he did to me is another heartbreak… The labeling, controlling and mind games are horrific. The kids love him, because he plays with them. But like what he did to me; act all nice and sweet when he feels like it, then all of a sudden, you don’t know what hit you, he does the same with the boys. I always felt like I was standing blindfolded and earplugged on a train track. Unkept promises are countless, to me and to them.
It was like Grizelda said, “When YOU do something, ‘you did it’. When HE does something, it’s ‘what happened’.” Spot on!!!
After our separation, I had serious chest pains at 1am one night, they scared me. He took me to the ER, I was told there that sometimes severe stress can cause heart attack-like symptoms, but my heart was Ok. When we got home, he insinuated that now that “he’s a knight in shining armour”, he deserves some “reward”, and of course what’s a better reward to a separated man than a shag?!! I felt I owed him, then later cried in the bathroom for hours because I had lost my self-respect. I felt like a wh*** except that I was paid in terms of a hospital visit. WTF!!! That was the last time I allowed him to do me any “favours” or even to touch me for all it matters.
Now, he hears my credit card statement is escalating because I study postgrad and pay my fees by credit card. He gave me half of what I owed the bank and said he will give me the rest in a few days so that I can pay him back in installments with no interest. I was shocked tbh, but tempted to accept the offer, yet scared like hell that he’d act like I owe him something. It has always been how he manipulated me; to help in the kitchen ONCE, bring me some cheap perfume on no occasion or be generous enough to not complain about returning back 2am and finding me sleeping and not waiting for him… all one-time incidents just to add to the “I’m a perfect husband” list which he’d be preparing to use against me on our next argument to show me how great he is and how ungrateful, lazy, unwise and unloving I am. Lately, he’s been using same futile “proofs” also in front of people; mostly family members to win them on his side. I had to bring out some ugly truths about him I was hiding like when he broke my nose or raped me after we agreed we’re separated and it was totally without my consent that I ended up with some bruises. Now, no one even wants to listen to him.
Wow MSA! sounds like you’ve been through a whole lot of crazy! Yes – you never know when the other shoe is going to drop! Nice one minute and monstrous the next with no warning. it’s like they flip a switch. I know that you know this – but i’m just going to tell you anyway: It has absolutely nothing to do with you. You and the boys are just convenient targets for his illness to manifest itself. I hope that you can keep your sanity until you can move out and find some peace. You deserve some peace sister! And honestly it doesn’t sound very safe to be living with a man whose sense of entitlement includes violence. I don’t know if you are a spiritual person MSA , but i am praying for you and your boys. I’ve been where you are (minus the children) and i know how strong a person you must be to endure this type of situation. I sincerely wish for you the very best.
MSA, rape, a broken nose, and bruises are SERIOUS. What your sons see and know is more than you think. It’s not just that he plays with them. There is help out there. Please avail yourself. Do NOT listen to what he says. Feel what he does.
It’s time to run before it gets even worse. I’ve been there too and know how difficult it is. Broken thumb, raped, and black eyes. Dear god…it doesn’t matter what they say. Nobody deserves that. Can your family assist you?
OMG! Are there any friends or family you can stay with. If not, how about a shelter for abused women? This situation sounds frightening!
@fallback no more,
Yes, I’m spiritual. I do appreciate you praying for me. One more thing he does is wear the “Man of God” mask and preaches me on what a good wife should be (in his own twisted interpretation of the Bible course). I did stop listening to his BS and it’s eating him alive that he doesn’t have this power over me anymore.
@runnergirl,
It’s what I did… My mom was so angry that I’ve been hiding all this from her, which I did also under his influence. He’d always say we shouldn’t involve family as long as we can solve our own problems (aka as long as I can control you around and press the reset button and get your submission too). Funny thing is he was the one who availed himself first, putting on a victim’s mask until I exposed him.
@Allison,
I spend some time at my mom’s, I am planning to move out. The problem is, I live in a country where marital rape isn’t acknowledged as being a legal offense. “I can have you right now if I want to”, is what he said when I told him a couple of days later that was rape. The broken nose incident I also hid and told everyone I hit the night table while waking up in the middle of the night. I can’t deny I enabled him, I was brainwashed that he loved me and that “it was just a moment of anger”. Now, I see he loves no one but himself, and I even doubt that.
Thank you all for your support. Sometimes, one needs this to affirm a person is not crazy.
@fallback no more & runnergirl, I’m sorry to hear you had to go through similar situations as well. You don’t deserve this. No one should inflict their insecurities over another loving and caring person. This is pure evil. Hang in there! (((hugs))))
Oh MSA – I know all about the “man of the cloth” hypocrisy. My ex told me that i failed in my “marital obligations” and that i’d have to answer to God. I’m glad that you stopped listening to his BS – just be careful. As you know – this can enrage them when they feel they are losing control. I walked a fine line between being true to myself and avoiding his rage. I clung to my belief in God during my ordeal and it helped me to endure it till i was able to get out. I didn’t tell my family either because i felt ashamed and embarrassed. And like your situation – he tried to isolate me from friends and family. Just know that we are all here for you and supporting you.
And thanks for telling me to hang in there. I’ve been out of that situation for 7 years now.
Better to be alone than in bad company! I treasure my peace of mind.
Anyway – no – you are not crazy. You are just in a crazy-making situation.
Take Care MS ~
fallback no more,
I hear you loud and clear, every single word you’re saying
Thanks for being here!
MSA; I believe the term for this is gaslighting, here you can see it more specifically;
http://www.lovefraud.com/blog/2013/01/10/witnessing-a-psychopacthic-interaction-seeing-knowing-and-empathizing/
@Anon,
OMG!! I can’t believe that. It’s like the writer watched one of the many situations I had to encounter with the psychopath of an ex I had. I know how the victim must have felt after she got home, crying her heart out, waiting for his return to apologize for whatever she didn’t even do. My stomach is turning as I write this as it brings back so much painful memories of being lost and just wishing for things to be set right and for knowing a way to please the man I thought was the love of my life. So much BS they spit out I hope they all choke on it.
Thanks for the clarity I get more and more everyday as I read what each and every BR’er has to say. You, ladies, are a blessing!
@ LAU_RA
well i am not willing to move back in while her son is still in the house, and i take it it will take him about 3years to move out of the house when he makes matric so im working it out for about 6 years..if i want to give us a second chance then this is what i have to consider and shes prepared to do it like this. i dont know, its like a demontion now from what we where aint it? Laura i am a people pleaser and also over sensitive so i dont know when i am being too sensitive thats the problem, she sees nothing wrong with it and also i have to understand that she is in the closet with her parents that is al good but with some friends she can also not be open with because she is afraid they will reject her which i can also understand but where do i draw the line. im not a child anymore and as much as i want to understand i can not see how she can choose friends opinions above her own hapiness. i cant pretend infront of people i feel like scum when she reacts diffrently with me infront of these friends, but she wont budge and i cant either..but the love is there…and she also said she hopes i will get someone that can understand my sensitivety because i am not an easy person.. so now i worry that maybe i will loose the one person that is willing to love me with my sensitivety problem..
@rita
I’m sorry, but I see manipulation there. She made you believe you’re not an easy person, now is the time for Nat’s title to blink repeatedly “Just Because Someone Says Something, It Doesn’t Make It So (Don’t let them use BS to blame you)”. What’s not easy about wanting to be happy “out of” the closet? She’s the one who’s not easy. She knows no one else will buy her BS or agree to have a secret relationship, while she also flirts around. You say she can only see you on weekends, I see a carpet of red flags because knowing she’s flirty and announces being single and still IN the closet… BIG RED FLAGS waving around! She could be bi for all you know and having both sides of the fun. I’m assuming she flirts with guys?? because you said she’s still keeping her sexual orientation a secret.
She knows you’re a people pleaser and is using this for her own agenda. My ex-husband made me believe I were oversensitive for standing my ground in certain situations, as if nothing he did deserved objection from my side. Don’t let her eff up your mind. I believe what you’re asking is quite legit and the basics of any healthy relationship: in the open, no flirting and both wanting the same thing. You’re NOT oversensitive. In fact, she’s overdemanding and wants a relation in her own terms and conditions. If you sign up for that, then you agree to what makes you feel less than what you’re truly worth.
Telling her next gf that she’s flirty doesn’t sound regretful to me either. It basically means she WILL NOT stop her flirting and she’s already preparing for the “next” one??!!! FFS, she knows she has massive red flags and no next one will accept those. Why should you?
I know how hard it is to walk out on love. Trust me, I’m still entangled in a web all in the name of “love”, but it’s why we’re here, to give each other the strength that we’re seeking. I read Nat’s articles and BR’ers comments daily to try and find the strength I need to see things for what they are, not for what I want them to be. You need to read some previous articles too, about red flags, blame and pain in relationships (or relationshits as per BR terminology). See the related posts above, you’ll find them quite helpful. Best of luck! I wish you the happiness that you deserve ((((hugs))))
Rita,
Please don’t be a doormat!
She is not treating you in a loving manner, nor is she respecting you. It’s all on her terms. You may love her, but you have to love yourself more.
Rita,
One more thing. If you really wanted a relationship you would not be seeking it with this person. She flirts openly with others (disrespectful), only sees you on her terms, and hides you from her life.
Think about it, if you were open to a healthy, respectful relationship this would be your last choice as a partner. Deep down, you know nothing will change – we should never expect someone to change – and she has told you she will not make changes for you. I think you need to address why the prospect of engaging with this person can possibly lead to any type of future.
Rita, I’m gay too. This woman doesn’t sound like a keeper. She’s not treating you right. She’s got some internalized homophobia going on, and you don’t want that nasty stuff to leak all over you. She sounds like she needs a lot of ego valadation, and that she likes making you feel insecure.
It’s so hard to find a good girlfriend! I understand how hard it is especially if you don’t live in a real gay area, they seem far and few between. But she’s the type who will suck you dry and it doesn’t even sound like she’s giving you any crumbs.
This is a great site, so keep reading some of Natalie’s previous articles, and soon it will become clear what you need to do.
Best of Luck!
Are all of you from overseas? i just love technology heheee!
You don’t have a sensitivity problem, thats just her gaslighting that makes you think like that! Jeeez, I even got angry reading all that stuff how she says you are so sensitive:( I just can’t believe how we actually believe all that BS we are told by the ones we care about…Quite an illustration how people are become “psycho g/fs//b/fs” – when people tell me about their “crazy/oversensitive/stalking/etc” exes, I always wonder if the blaming party adresses their behaviour in the situation? I’ve dated a major AC who would say I’m overreacting, cause I would get upset if he wouldn’t include me in his plans (he would say -I can’t meet you this week, cause I have very little spare time even for myself, BS BS BS, at the same time he would manage to find lots of time for other people), and would say it is the reason why he doesn’t want to see me that often.
And what exactly does she mean saying you are not an easy person? I guess her definition of easy includes no expectations, no nothing from your side, yet doing everything you can in her favour? Don’t you ever believe such BS, ever, cause it only serves her as a means of keeping you by her side (I bet you had a thought someone else would not accept you with all this imaginery sensitivity problem?).
Read an amazing quote today which says “sometimes you just have to forget what you feel and remember what you need”. Rita, ask yourself, do you need all this (being a secret lover, being blamed to be over-sensitive,etc.)?
Hi Guys,
I wanted some advise on how to handle a difficult boss- I hae posted about this before as I did speak to a senior manager regarding her behaviour and we all sat down in a room where she pretty much ripped me apart but things have got better – they are ‘manageable’ but to be honest there are still days where I have no clue how to deal with her boundary busting behaviour – my boss essentially suffers from a lack of personal responsibility – nothing is ever her fault – this week she had a dental appointment with some pretty painful treatment involved – she came into work in a foul mood inflicting it on everyone else by micro-mananging us and being very snappy – it makes me angry and feel very tense and anxious when it is like this – but how does one deal with it so it doesn’t affect your mood?
Marie83,
I wish I could help. I just had a breakdown partly because of my boss who does the same like yours. She calls and txts at any time. Just today, I also heard she’s been spreading rumours on how badly I perform, although my previous boss would always evaluate my yearly performance as ‘exceeding expectations’. Now, I discover that everyone in the department thinks I am not efficient enough, that I study during working hours, which I DO NOT DO. She’s studying the same degree I’m studying for, I am assuming she feels threatened which is ridiculous as I’d never compete with her experience. It’s fking annoying and stressing me out. Other bosses tell me not to give her a chance to see any flaw, but how can I? No one is perfect and if she wants, she’s bound to see a flaw or two and make a biggie out of them. I hope someone out there can help us, Marie83… I am very frustrated and sometimes I feel like I just don’t want to do what she asks. When she’s away, work is much smoother and things get done way faster. She’s such a negative energy in the team.
I am very frustrated right now, I feel everything is falling apart, my finances, my relationships and now my career. Sorry for whining, just having a bad few days and I have to keep a smiley face so as not to depress my children. I feel like screaming and crying and pulling my hair out. URGH!!
“When she’s away, work is much smoother and things get done way faster. She’s such a negative energy in the team” MSA, do we work for the same woman?! This week my boss went to the dentist and was in a fair bit of pain when she returned – suddenly her toothache becomes my problem and she was just so awful all day. The problem is because I report to her, she doesn’t think that my opinions, feelings matter – in fact when I did complain to her superior manager about how she made me ‘feel’, her response was ‘well I don’t think that is valid’. I think I could handle it more if she was consistently rude, but it is like when she is in a good mood, it is jolly and jovial but when she is not it is just a bad place to be and I resent that – my last relationship was all on ‘his’ terms, I really don’t want my working realtionship to be either! I am past trying to going anything ‘formal’ as it seems that her managers are completely ok with brushing things under the carpet and it just makes it emotionally draining to have to discuss ‘problems’ with her and have her plow over me and make me feel dreadful – I want to develop techniques for myself where I simply don’t care if she is snappy and unreasonable, but not sure if this is possible
Back when my self-esteem was lower (and I still need to work on it) I would quickly latch on to whatever anyone thought of me or my actions. I was so ready to accept and BELIEVE their opinions as I didn’t have strong opinions of my own. I cared only about what OTHERS THOUGHT not what I thought. As part of my journey to loving me, I’ve surrounded myself with a number of friends who are healthy individuals. We genuinely respect each other and we’re there for each other with love, honesty and empathy. I’ve found that not only has my work on myself improved my outlook but being around healthy, positive , genuine people has reinforced my own opinion of myself. I’m far more interested in reaching out and placing myself in social situations whereas before I used to feel, “why bother. No one will miss me. I have nothing to contribute by my presence.” As I’m improving my self-esteem I question more what others think about me. Instead of blindly believing and feeling beaten down, I EVALUATE, what has been said. Sometimes, I agree and sometimes I don’t. And after I’m done, I don’t waver back and forth in my opinion. When you have little self-esteem and don’t love yourself you are putty in the hands of people with negative intentions toward you. You don’t believe in yourself, but you believe in them and their opinions about YOU. Now that I’ve come such a long way, I will not allow others to treat me “less than”. I will question their statements to me their excuses, their reasons and their agenda where I am concerned. This does not mean that I will be walking around overly suspicious, but I won’t be a sponge absorbing all the negative vibes without standing my ground and standing up for ME.
Naz
Never be ashamed of who you are. I’m triracial and have also been rejected for who I am or thought of as some sort of an exotic toy. My at work AC accused me of getting my job solely due to affirmative action (I did have to briefly break NC to set him straight). It’s about them, not us but unfortunately we do have a much harder road due to them. I also have a few friends/colleagues who admire what and who I am and I’d bet you do too.
“(I did have to briefly break NC to set him straight). ”
right on.
Sorry there are times to do contact and that was one of them. It does not matter what he thinks but venting on something so shitty to say as that, seems a really necessary thing imho.
Great post and perfectly timed for me. For some reason, I’ve been lamenting over my last “relationship” with a certified assclown. I started thinking, maybe I did do or say something to trigger his behavior, albeit shady. Then when I read…
“Do you believe that it’s someone’s fault if they’re beaten, raped, or cheated on?”, they’re horrified and immediately and emphatically say NO, so it’s time to ask ourselves why we think it’s OK to accept BS reasoning for boundary busting behaviour?
…it really struck a cord. Why should am I blaming myself? Is it easier than admitting that I just made a bad choice and my radar didn’t go off? Is it easier than letting go of the delusion that this man was just not who presented himself to be? Is it because I can’t take another strike on my record?
Still a work in progress, but the beauty is that I can see that BS is BS no matter how pretty you dress it up.
@ All of you,
Thank you so much for your advice, i needed to hear it from outsiders and i am going to copy every comment and keep it and read it over and over if i want to consider going back.
i must make peace with this. she is not a bad person just not my match hey! Pinkpanter yes it is hard to find someone aspecially in my small city i think thats why i want to hold on, but i must also look after myself dont always know where to draw the line looks like it!! urgggh!!!
i will keep on reading Nat’s advice, i am already feeling a bit better today.. thank you all!!
I live in a gay mecca, and I see a whole lot of women who don’t value each other enough, instead using each other for sex, ego, etc. I sometimes think that in a smaller city the gays would understand how rare and valuable each of us are, therefor treat each other like gold. Your woman doesn’t sound like she understands your worth, she’ll use you up if you let her.
Here’s my coming out story for you:
I was 22 my new GF and I were in the bank. She reached over to hold my hand and I flinched away. She said “either you’re with me or you’re not, decide”. So I took her hand, and she pulled me out of the closet right there in the Bank of America!
Being out is essential to loving yourself
Sweet story pinkpather. “…right there in the Bank of America”…I can’t think of a better place! Good for you girl. It’s about being authentic no matter where it happens.
miskwa, bear scared guy was an effwit. glad you dumped his ass. well done saving yrself & yr dog frm the bears!
otherwise, I dumped the guy I dated b4 deceased AC, for lies not adding up on his whereabouts related to a very simple date proposal (this was the 36 yo mummy’s boy – had never moved out of home. I.e wtf?) Lies over dumb stuff suggested more lies to follow over big stuff. Ta ta!
Then there was deceased AC (1st anniversay of death a few days ago). He was a master of all Nat speaks of in this post. The long periods of NC initiated by me throughout were b.c I could see the BS for what it was & put it right bk where it belonged – on him. He didn’t like that too much. Hence I was labelled ‘diffilcult’ blah blah (Err no, I just call an emotionally abusive, lying, cheating, user what he is – an emotionally abusive, lying, cheating, user!)
Although it’s been over 2 yrs now of NC, he then died, & I ended up so ill (for other reasons) I still may lose my house. Two words. Never again.
Crawls back to bed.
Rita. Not sure what country you’re in, or city (& ppl often prefer not to say, which is ok), but in my country/city we have specialised domestic violence workers who deal with DV for same sex female couples. If you haven’t already, I suggest you do a little checking in your area & see what turns up. Start with mainstream DV services & take it from there. If there’s something like that in your area they will show you the way to access appropriate support services, such as counselling, for women in your position. Hang in there & please do not return to this person. Abuse from anyone, male or female, in relationships of any kind, is NEVER ok. You deserve to be safe & loved. Keep giving yourself these gifts. Big hugs. T x
Signed a ‘recovering lesbian’ (my private joke as this is such a complex issue for me) who is SO over men, I’ve been seriously wondering if I made a mistake when I decided 13 yrs ago, that I was straight after all! LOL (This I would add had something to do with dreams of a husband, baby & white picket fence. Oh how misguided I was; although I’m now remaining straight b.c it’s just bloody easier than going through that whole issue all over again!) Arghhh… And B4 anyone even THINKS it, NO I am NOT bi-sexual. I.e Far too wishy washy for me!
Dancing queen
Yep, one of my “must haves” is “will not wimpily run away leaving me to be eaten by bears”. Ironically, this douche had wrecked his knee due to monumentally stupid behavior in the backcountry. I kept fed in summers there by teaching primitive survival skills. This was the beginning of the end, complete NC started when I found a lump in my breast and he was not there for me at all. He had been emasculated for some time, one lesson I learned from him was to avoid men who have much less education than I because they will resent you eventually. This dude hated us that were at the university because we
made more money. At the time, he owned his home, car was paid for while I lived in a tiny cabin without plumbing or water and was lucky to make ends meet. Nothing like a crisis situation to make ones true character show itself.
Miskwa
I cannot believe that there are not many men around who would appreciate how adventurous you are. I know several men who enjoy the outdoors, running and hillwalking, who complain about how sedentary their wives are and wish they could get them out of the house to the mountains. And although I am nowhere near as active as yourself I do enjoy the outdoors and go Hillwalking, biking and camping when I can. (we dont have bears though thank goodness! LOL) Every man I have ever been out with enjoyed these things too and we did them together. My experience has been that many men LOVE an active woman who doesnt spend all her time shopping and preening and watching TV. What on earth is wrong with all
those American guys?
@ teachable
lol thanks for the laugh!! i am all the way from South-Africa just amazing how many people all over the world have some same situations and that we can all connect here and support each other, in fact its GREAT!!!
uuhmmm i also seriouslly considered taking a man because they are not so complexed but just the thought of it makes me feel not lekkerrr!!! Yes woman is sooooooo complicated but men naaaaahhh there’s just not that emotional connection and i am all about connection lol!! thanx for your advice and good luck with the straight path lol as long as you can say “i lived and it was good and i was happy” then do whats good for you!! Sorry for the spelling and tenses, I am afrikaans and also very blond with the internet cant find the spell check grrr!!
Keep well
I am convinced you have a hidden camera of my life. Your posts this week have been absolutely spot on to whats going on in my mind!!!
After two years he breaks it off, saying that ultimately it came down to me not being sweet enough. I’d say fair enough if it wasn’t for the fact that I LIVED for this guy and bent over backwards to show my love and commitment. Heck, I even move to a different country for him! His complaint was that through the times that he cheated on me, was dishonest about his relationships with certain women, was verbally agressive, etc I wouldn’t cut him any slack, and call him out on it and as a consequence not be sweet. Yeah well, no kidding. Regardless I have been tossing and turning thinking about all the times that I *was* sweet, the times I wasn’t, the times I could have been sweeter, the reasons why he’d say that and ultimately agreeing with him! Oh what a terrible person I am I shouldn’t have made that comment or I should have laughed at x joke.
Ultimately, if his biggest complaint after two years is that I wasn’t sweet “enough” I’d say that’s pretty good. My biggest complaint was that he was aggressive and unfaithful, but hey, who’s judging.
@ teachable
aaawe and i am tearing up now!!! i like your ex girlfriend heheee, she knew what she wanted and bugger the rest.
mmmm you see in small city’s evrybody also knows everybody and sleeps with everybody thats the problem.
i took her and her son, went through alot of s…. with her son swearing at me and she just stands there doing nothing!! i supported her more in this almost 2years then her ex husband has in the last 14 years(emotionally) got her through his brain operation, school stuff that she knew nothing about, made them lunch when she took him to hockey in the evenings..ag but she also helped me alot with stuff, we never fought during our time together which was new to me, we or i thought we respected each other (i didnt know about the deneying being in a relationship until a month ago so everything was good except for the flirting and chatting 24/7. Actually everything went wrong from the day i moved in with them, we dated for a year and we thought it was a good and practical idea but then her son got out of control not that we didnt respect him. we never touched, never kissed we did nothing infront of him and i think everything started to die right there..and ja she is asking for another chance but she is not even fighting for me! Ag i dont know she tells me she wont flirt anymore and what what but it’s to late!
you would think that someone will appreciate this qualities and values but still not even this was enough!!
Mymble
Most of those American guys are obese and can’t even walk up a set of stairs at this altitude let alone trudge thru the mountains. Unfortunately, the only guy living locally that I could trust to watch my back up here was the AC who is a skilled outdoorsman. Now I watch out for myself. Lots of guys come up on weekends but bring their sposes and family with or are with a group of friends. I have gotten into trouble due to others stupid actions, inability to remember routes, and excessive risk taking. I don’t mind bears: during that summer, my last in Montana, I saw 11 grizz; you gave to behave in the right way around them, be both humble and aware. That idiot I described was neither. The woods, serious wilderness is my healing and being there makes me feel alive, worthy, and whole. In my broken community, I only feel unwanted, despised, rejected. May be doing a trip out tonight, actually.
You mean pinkpanther Rita, not me. I told the last woman I was involved with (it was a holiday fling, & we were from different countries so knew our involvement had a built in expiry date) that I was not a lesbian BEFORE we became sexually intimate. In hindsight, I don’t think she believed me, as I was 30 at the time & had been involved with women since my teens. I decided I was in fact a lesbian at around 20. I came out to those who mattered & that was that. Then, a few years later, after a couple of failed lesbian relationships, I met my deceased ex AC who died 12 mths ago; the relationship which led me to BR. I’d been wondering at the time about what it would be like to have sex with a man again; a very odd thought for me at the time, as I was a dyke & happy enough with.my identity. I used to say at first to this guy, in what began as a casual involvement look, I’m actually a lesbian so don’t expect anything of me & he said, that was ok. Then after a while, lo & behold, I realised I’d fallen in love – WITH HIM. This was the biggest shock to me & I decided, well, obviously, I’m NOT a lesbian. That lasted 3 yrs & we went our seperate ways. I then was involved with another guy but nope, didn’t fall in love. So, ended that. Then, the woman I speak of, who decided she wanted to MARRY ME. I told her this was just not possible. She was travelling the world & originated from a war torn country. I don’t think she wanted to marry ME so much, & that more she hoped to get permanent residency in a less strife ridden country (mine wouldn’t meet the criteria though, as same sex marriage is not legal here). Anyway, after her (we remain distant friends), I thought, I am 30 now & must decide. Am I gay or straight? So I decided, I’d fallen in love with a man, so I must be straight. Shame he turned out to be an AC. He returned to blindside me a load of BS 17 yrs later. Then, he died, a year after I managed to get him out of my life, 12 mths ago. Talk about a headfuck. No wonder a part of me now wonders if I was wrong & might be gay after all. HE would be enough to make the POPE turn gay, (although of course in reality my preferences aren’t dictated by such silly
Otherwise just going back to an earlier comment. I live in a suburban area which is not gay identified, as some suburbs tend to be. I notice gay men & women out shopping (ie my ‘gaydar’ still works, lol), although most of the time, I don’t think they ‘pick up on’ me b.c I tend to blend in as just another straight person, given this is the life I have adopted. My point is that sexuality, for some people, is quite a complex journey, & you can’t pick non hetro peeps just by looking at them, so really you never can be sure how many live nearby. For eg I may live a straight life, but if I met the right woman for me, I’m starting to think, why care about gender? If it were possible to share a wonderful life with someone who was a great match for me & vice versa why not just do that & be happy? I doubt I’ll ever meet anyone of course, as I don’t identify as gay, so they won’t know to how or where to ‘find me’ (I sometimes disclose my gay past, if relevent, after a long enough period of time has passed for trust & respect to develop to new gay friends but not always). I’m not ready to date so it’s a moot point anyway (& when I do, I will probably stay straight now as I feel maybe that’s for the best) One ex who was violent toward me when I was just kid tried the ‘you lesbian bitch’ line or some such thing though. I laughed my head off. Was this supposed to be insult? Because I can assure you when I WAS actually gay I was very ‘out n proud’ (& I more just think still maybe I was mistaken in hindsight that’s all !)
Phew. I think I just ‘came out’ (in a fashion) on BR!!!
Miskwa, if we were both gay, I would ask you out on a date! This is a compliment (not a come on, it’s ok, I’m not gay, lol). Just sayin….IF though… LOL
The blokes don’t deserve you as you’re just TOO GOOD for them! LOL
Please continue emasculating whimps with no spines! You’re antics are hilarious! (But being abandoned when you had cancer is not..Very sorry to hear you went through this)…
PS If you are 50 ish yo, I have the perfect fella in mind for you. He actually meets ALL of yr criteria!
Ag sorry that comment was for you pinkpanther, hahaaa
Teach
I am 52. Tis funny, all the progressive stuff that goes on round here is all run by women. Not that this is a hotbed of progressivity but both political parties, all conservation /sustainability related stuff; the same bunch of us kicka$$ chicks run it all. Thanks, eh? Tell your dude I live at 10,500 feet and keep a few cats.
Miskwa. I don’t think he’d mind the mountains at all. In fact, he’d love that. He’s 60 ish (but looks younger as he takes good care of his health & always has) & has worked his entire career with at risk, vulnerable youth with challenging behaviours. He takes them on wilderness activites & trecks to help them learn about themselves & how to interact with each other. He’s an old work colleague from 20 years ago & we’ve stayed in touch. He enjoys hiking in the mountains for days at a time. I mean REALLY enjoys it. This is his passion. He’s a member of a bushwalking club & goes with ppl from there but also goes alone as he loves it so much. His dream is to find a woman who shares his passion for nature. He did marry at one stage but early on she stopped working & contributing financially to the relationship. (He has no kids, as neither did she. They married at an older stage of life). I asked him what went wrong, (he moved out & divorced a cpl of yrs bk now) & he mentioned that, & that she’d exaggerated her love of his passion for bushwalking, so he’d ended up going alone, while she stayed home, not working. He was working f/t & paying their mortgage on his own & eventually he couldn’t take anymore & decided to end it as it wasn’t the life he’d signed up for. She seemed to expect her to fully support her financially. He just couldn’t cope with that pressure. He’s a non smoker, very.honest, lots of integrity, well educated, & drinks only socially / not at lot. He’s also very fit for his age (it’s all that exercise), & financially responsible. He has a good r.ship with his parents & comes from a healthy family background. Seriously, if you were in my country, I’d introduce you!!
ps he’s also chivilrous & I can assure you, even if you can handle bears on your own, the GENTLEMAN him would NEVER let you.
@teachable
You are cracking me up woman! Let me know if are gay then we can do the ciber dating thing hahhaaa!!
Aww alas Rita. I’m currently impersonating a breeder (& am one, go figure!). lol. Doesn’t look like there will be anymore breeding for me though! Sigh! lol
PS More seriously Rita, I’d suggest not dating until you’ve had a decent break from the woman who has been abusing you. I do hope u can access some counselling too, if yr not already & DV specific counselling at that. It can take a while to heal from such an experience & the last thing you want is to end up in another abusive r.ship, due to not recognising the early warning signs of the one you’ve just been in. Hugs. T
Teach
Does he want to immigrate to the states? Funny, my last attept at dating an uneducated local turned out a lot like this dudes ex. He was semi retired but expected lil Miskwa to clean HIS house then would show up at mine and complain the cat boxes smelled, there was no fire in the stove, no food in the fridge, etc yet wouldn’t lift a finger to make anything better. We have all kinds of at rusk youth here in need of good mentoring.
@ teachable
i am not seeing anyone for thearapy or something, i can still handle this sort of! i was in a narsistic relationship before this one and believe me this is not a patch of what i went trough then. but what i cant handle is me making the same mistakes, i dated this last girl for a year how could i have missed this, maybe because i believe in only seeing the good, i dont know!!
i am trying to figure out why i make the wrong choices when it comes to choosing partners!!! i am on the internet every day, reading Nat’s advice but it is alot to take in and understand when i apply it to my situations!!
my ex shows no regret and it makes me sad!!! she goes on like nothing had happened, i tell her i want to delete her on fb and bbm she asks why because she still wants to be friends. she puts up profile pics saying” be thankfull for bad things in life, for they oppened your eyes to good things you werent paying attention to before”
i asked her what that meant and she said we have to be thankfull for bad things aspecially now a days with all the crime going on, what the hell she knows i am sensitive and she knows it would bother me, why put this up? and still she’s making apointments with me just after i told her i dont want her on my fb and bbm….
i want her as a friend,i dont even KNOW WHY because i feel sick when i think of how every thing just rolls off her shoulders and she is just going on..
she already told me that she is going to a wedding with an old flame at the end of the year, good for her and yes its long from now, but i hurt now and shes telling me this like a week ago why is she not thinking about my feelings when she tells me this stuff!!
I REALLY FEEL LIKE I CAN JUST TAKE HER HEART AND SWITCH IT WITH MINE, SO THAT SHE CAN FEEL AND SEE WHAT I FEEL AND SEE!!
NOT A GOOD DAY FOR ME!!