During my childhood, my mother spouted off a number of ‘amusing’ sayings including “Those who can’t hear will feel”, “Don’t fly past your roost”, and the very annoying, “Would you jump off a bridge if someone told you to?” I’m often reminded of the latter when people share what can only be described as their ‘shady stories’ with me where they’re blamed for the other person’s wrongdoings or the fact that their actions failed to match their words. I’ve heard from people who’ve spent years feeling wounded by some bullshit (BS) excuse dressed up as a ‘logical’ reason that was used on them.
Just because someone gives a reason, or should I say excuse for why they’ve done something, it doesn’t make it so.
When you start agreeing with this BS, you’re essentially offloading your own truth, morals, and values in favour of their perspective. They can give a reason / excuse but it doesn’t have to be accepted or believed. You still have your own judgement and nobody should be able to come along and tell you that up is down and have you signing on to their perspective. If you’ll question the hell out of your existence with each thing that someone says, you’ll be in an emotional hell which is all the more reason why you can take protective cover by having a reasonable level of self-esteem.
Of course there are some people out there who over a period of time with what can only be described as mind effery, they manage to weasel their way into your psyche with their chop-chop-chopping and they drain you of your strength so that you don’t really have anything left to fight back with or leave. You end up believing them because when they made their first ‘chip’, it created an opening for them to say and do more things to mess with your head where you essentially end up doubting you.
Aside from very unpleasant abusive folk, who incidentally tend to sneak up on you because they’re not likely to roll out their true selves immediately otherwise you’d bolt, there are people who just basically have Very Dodgy Reasoning because they don’t tend to take responsibility and accountability for their own actions and they also have a Very Dodgy Perspective to base the reasoning on. They may very well believe it because they may have a rather convoluted framework of reality and truth that they’re working off. They believe certain things and as we’ve all discovered, when we believe something, we find all sorts of ways to legitimise that perspective even if there’s plenty of other evidence out there that highlights an alternative and disputes this indisputable truth attitude that we may be going around with.
It’s not about them being a ‘bad person’; it means you’re incompatible because on the personal values front, which is about character and essentially who you are as a person including your morals, you clash.
Just because someone says something, it doesn’t make it so.
We are all living in our own realities and we feel at our most ‘harmonious’ around people who share similar values and outlooks. What we think, how we feel, and what we do, ultimately shapes our outlook, our perspective and also whether or not we’re going to buy into BS in the first place.
Some people are very acclimatised to very high levels of drama and chaotic lives. I used to have a very high tolerance for BS making it easy for me to be the high absorbency blame kitchen roll in people’s lives because I was used to being around people who had an attitude of, “If I said or did something wrong it’s because you made me”.
We’re just not that powerful. If you’re operating under the misconception that you’ve ‘provoked’ a good Samaritan into behaviour that would have me slamming down a gavel saying “This is an open and shut case of assholery, judgement in favour of the plaintiff” you really are thinking that you’re that powerful.
Don’t perpetuate this pervasive tendency in society of judging you or others for someone else’s wrongdoing. We live in a time when people commit crimes and we’re judging the victims. We wonder what they forgot to do, or question why they were dressed a certain way, or poke into their background as if this lessens the responsibility of the criminal while burdening the victim.
Funny enough, when people tell me about how they’ve been beating themselves up for weeks, months, years or even decades over some BS justification that they were clobbered with and I ask, “Do you believe that it’s someone’s fault if they’re beaten, raped, or cheated on?”, they’re horrified and immediately and emphatically say NO, so it’s time to ask ourselves why we think it’s OK to accept BS reasoning for boundary busting behaviour?
You might think that yours are ‘different’, more ‘provoke-able’, or ‘lesser’ problems than beating, cheating and rape, but the thing is that buying into BS paves the way to more of it so that when you develop a tendency for listening to dodgy reasoning, when something really big happens, you will blame you for it too. You will also find that all of the ‘small’ and ‘medium’ sized things that you assign you the responsibility of gradually build up and you end up fatigued.
Be careful: the reasoning that you accept or apply to others can inadvertently communicate the wrong messages about you and distort your own values.
Accepting bullshit excuses that put the blame on you for the wrongdoings of others to justify their even more bullshit behaviour is to suggest that you believe that other people’s shady and even assholic behaviour is ‘acceptable’ or at least justifiable if it’s ‘provoked’ by a person’s worth or some sort of failure on their part.
That’s bullshit.
Would you treat someone without love, care, trust, and respect and then blame them for it and even throw them a BS excuse to justify your actions? If you wouldn’t, don’t BS yourself any further by going against your own values and buying into someone else’s dodgy reasoning.
Your thoughts?
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Wow Natalie! You hit the nail on the head with this one. I was once a victim of this and it took me 5 years to de-program myself from believing the nonsense! So true!!!!
it’s taken me 6 yrs to de-program- one little bit at a time, just like the way I was programed to believe the BS in the first place.
Thanks Nat for de constructing the web of manipulations so we can live truer , straighter , happier lives.
I was programmed since childhood to accept abuse, blame, and dysfunction, “this is how things are-deal with it”. I had to swallow any ounce of self-worth and pretend everything was normal. My feelings don’t matter. Just sweep it under the rug and everything will be fine. Repress, repress, repress.
I’ve been reading about generational abuse and dysfunction, and the impact of denial. When problems like abuse are never dealt with but ignored, and parents enforce the facade of acting as if the problem doesn’t exist, or minimizing it, it makes us doubt our own perceptions and feelings. What we see and know isn’t being acknowledged by the authority figures in our lives. As a result, we learn not to trust ourselves because of the constant feedback invalidating our perceptions. We can’t trust what reality is anymore.
Denial and repression is what causes the most lasting damage, not the abuse itself. When you’re told that it’s not a big deal, or even that it’s NORMAL, or that it was your fault, or that you’re being too sensitive and should suck it up and get over it, that you don’t have the right to express your hurt or question what happened.
malaise….wow..your comment made me sit up….an awsome way to put it, you explained my feelings for me! It IS the denial and repression and having to stuff it down for everybody elses sake, that is the most poisonous stuff. My personal power has been taken by the almighty “authority”and I kept being drawn to the same kind of shit.It has been a saving grace to be able to talk about it on here and be supported and understood. I have noticed recently I started to pay attention to my most basic needs like taking care to dress warm when cold, and taking time to rest and be comfortable, it baffles me that I never did take any notice of me in a conscious, I “even exsist” way as if I was put on this earth to serve everyone elses needs. Sad, but that`s past now.I also seem to be “getting it” a lot more recently, wonder if it`s my denial plugs popping out at long last. First the authority figures make your world belwidering, then the AC`s take over and then for some time we carry on that work ourselves…Could you please recommend a read on the subject?
I know Sushi…it’s alot to work through. We internalize the abuse and swallow our rage at being dismissed time after time. It eats away at our self-worth and our ability to trust in our feelings and make healthy decisions. As adults, we continue the cycle with self-destructive patterns of behaviour like getting involved with AC’s and worse.
A book that kind of touches on everything that might be a good place to start, and you’ll be surprised is, “Codependency for Dummies”. I know. I was just browsing at the bookstore and saw it on display. But it really breaks things down well and covers all the bases. I don’t like labels, but codependency is just a term they used basically described as the dependence on the approval of others to find self-worth. Ding ding ding! That’s me lol.
Malaise, thank you, will get that book asap…since that`s me too.
@ malaise
“As a result, we learn not to trust ourselves because of the constant feedback invalidating our perceptions. We can’t trust what reality is anymore.”
That so rings true. Been there, heard that from my family which looooooooves to pretend like nothing bad happened. It was so crazy-making in my 20’s; so glad I finally see it for what it is.
There is a gift in all this; if you survive that kind of family and eventually the light goes on, you pretty much are able to see through much later… if you don’t intentionally blind yourself.
We have all been victim to it and like Nat says next thing you know we are blaming ourselves when something big happens. My ex was tough to deal with in that he actually would stop me from blaming myself and defended me when we had the “big” talks. How bad is that? He knew he was the bs’r and scumbag and I didn’t want to see it. Of course I realize that was another manipulative tactic to get me back in his web. Those rose colored glasses we look at them with hide all the sins we don’t want to see until we start to sink low enough that we have to take a hard clear look or go down in flames. Deprogramming takes time but so worth it to finally have clarity about an unhealthy relationship.
Vigorous nodding!
I did this over the summer, when I found out that my BF was golfing with a group of women all summer, yet he neglected to mention this fact until one of his friends mentioned it in passing. He only mentioned his male friends, of course. At first, I went ballistic and accused him of acting shady, but then, I was filled with remorse because my ex-husband had cheated, lied and otherwise manipulated the crap out of me while we were married. I took my big reaction as a sign that I was “damaged” and proceeded to work my tail off in therapy. Do you know that MF had the audacity to let me take the blame?
I later came to the conclusion that I may have issues with men who are dishonest and manipulative, but his line of reasoning “that it wasn’t a big deal” and he wasn’t covering up was pure B.S. I realized I had every right to see this as a big red flag. It wasn’t too much longer before I broke things off, with him trailing a line of BS excuses in his wake. His reasoning wasn’t logical, it wasn’t smart, and it wasn’t my business to straighten him out, either. I got away and I got away clean. Thank GOD! I really appreciate each new post because each one adds an extra level of clarity to a situation that I have dealt with in the past. Thank you, Natalie!
“Do you know that MF had the audacity to let me take the blame?”
That’s the shadiest, dodgiest and most unforgivable of all behaviors. In an effort to cover their bad, they’ll put it all on you? It’s insult to injury.
The worst is that it slowly robs us of our ability to trust in our perceptions…and that is crucial to surviving in society.
Hopefully, we all figure out that our hunches were right all along, but it doesn’t seem to give us our radar back right away. It’s a long battle.
Great post, Natalie.
So if I’m to understand this right then this would be an example of the BS Nat describes?
A guy I was seeing didn’t have the same days off that I did. After months of waiting to find out if he could have off on Sundays he finally gets the word yet he doesn’t let me know. I call him at the end of his Sunday workday to see if he had time for a drink (this was his first Sunday off). In the conversation he leads me to believe he is at work as I asked how was his workday to which he responds so so. When I ask him to meet me he asks where I am? I ask why and he reveals that he’s been home all day because…ready for this…his boss called him that very morning to tell him he now has Sundays off. He wanted the day to himself and didn’t tell me because he thought I’d get mad. Blaming me to explain why he had to lie about being at work. Right? See, I would have understood that he wanted his first day off. Who knows, he may have been off for many before this. I’m sorry to say that I didn’t start NC at that point. I put up with a little more. Now I’m glad to say I haven’t seen or talked to him for nine months. Yay me! I’m realizing that if it makes me feel uncomfortable that’s my gauge kicking me in the butt and letting me know it’s not me, it’s them.
More vigorous nodding. My ex-BF had more days off during the summer than I could shake a stick at, but he didn’t ever seem to have “extra time” for me! Nope. He had me right where he wanted me at the intersection of convenient and distant. Jerk.
When he was busy being charming in the first few months, I didn’t realize he was so available because he was waiting out the winter. When golf season rolled around, suddenly he was SO busy. He waited to tell me his new, much-less-available schedule two days before a drastic change. And when I asked, incredulously, why he would wait until the last minute to tell me such a thing, he said, “because I was afraid you would get mad.”
It’s interesting. I know my immediate reaction was, “we have never had a fight, so why would you be afraid of me? That’s your stuff, not mine.” But after dumping his miserable accusatory *ss, I took him back after he apologized.
I never realized that this was the exact setup scenario that Natalie has described in her book. Bait the hook, wait until they’re nice and comfy, and then pull that rug right out from under their unsuspecting feet. The Reset Button.
I promise myself that when I start dating again, I will be journaling my brains out so I don’t miss this. I think part of me always knew something was amiss with this guy, but I talked right over my instincts and my common sense, didn’t I?
Tellitlikeitis,
I am glad you booted this guy out of your life. Bottom line is – if he cared for you enough he would’ve:
1) told you upfront that it’s his first Sunday off and wants some alone time (and then ask you to hang out later), instead of you having to figure it out in a way that makes you feel insecure.
2) Pick you up Sunday morning and spent all day with you because on his day off that’s all he imagined doing.
Feeling uncomfortable is definately a red flag for us. Our gut says “Hey you, I like you, listen to me. Be careful.” Always listen to it.
Australia,
I like the options you listed. It’s hard to realize (accept) that they really do not care as much as they words flying out of their mouths state they do.
My ex lived a 30 min train ride away from me – he worked Tuesdays, Saturdays and Sundays whereas I worked 9-5 Mon-Fri – I would only see him at the weekend – he works 3pm till 11pm shifts so I would pay to catch the train and stay over his – when he ended the relationship (for the millionth time) the reason he gave was because he ‘was sacrificing his weekend’ and didn’t feel like he had ‘anytime for himself’Funny that, I was the one travelling (and paying) to go and see him on a Friday night, I was also the one who observed that although on Sat and Sunday he didn’t start work until 3pm, he wouldn’t get up and spend anytime with me beforehand – getting out of bed at 2pm! Furthermore why couldn’t he get on the train and come and see me in the week – because he is selfish. lazy and complacent I guess
I cant believe, my God, they cant even lie properly:) Good for you, that you NC for 9 months, Telllikeitis!!!
I met a guy on Meet Up Group and he BEGGED me to meet him on Monday. I agreed but said that I am not looking for relationship, only friends. So on Tuesday he called me and apologised that he could not make it, as he went to his friend’s party. I just said: “Clearly your friends are more important than me, I “left” my Monday evening for you, but you did not have a decency to to call me in advance. I do not have time for you now”…He texted and called twice, but I ignored him, these days I do not accept any BS from anyone:) FLUSH IMMEDIATELY!
Little Star,
It hasn’t been easy to stay NC particularly when he texted me a week before his birthday after four months of silence. I immediately thought of Nat’s words stating the AC’s usually make contact around those important days because they are lonely, etc. I didn’t respond.
Gosh you have a quick flush mechanism. Good for you too! I hope the next time I meet someone I can cut through the BS quickly too.
IT’s take time to get over ACs, just stay positive and one day I promise, you will feel much better…I thought I would never get over my two ACs, but here I am happy and enjoying life again:) All the best to you Telllikeitis x
Isn’t it funny how we can feel powerful enough to believe we are to blame for someone else’s lack of integrity but feel powerless with our own choices and lives at the same time. That is one hell of a mind twist. No wonder I was so confused back when it was happening to me. It’s also funny how they can exert power over us the way they do when at the root of their dysfunction they feel powerless and impotent. It’s like being in a house of mirrors with a moving floor. Its dysfunctional symbiosis. Emotionally healthy people wouldn’t engage once the floor starts to move. The abusive ex blamed me for every imaginable horror he could come up with while avoiding himself, I accepted the blame of his issues while avoiding myself. Now that was team effort! I see it so clearly now. I have to laugh at myself for engaging in that circus act for four years without any awareness of how ridiculous it was. I own my own power now, in healthy rooted way. It doesn’t include having the power to turn someone into an abuser or a cheat, that is all their own. Once we step back from the whole thing and change our perspective, it’s amazing what we see.
“Isn’t it funny how we can feel powerful enough to believe we are to blame for someone else’s lack of integrity but feel powerless with our own choices and lives at the same time.”
LOL Selkie!!!!! You are one smart woman!!!! Cheers! 🙂
Selkie – well put, and good food for thought. Thank you.
Wow. Just major wow.
It’ll take me some time to digest this post.
This ties into a lot of stuff for me, my pathological upbringing and especially the last ex. It brings up a lot for me in perspectives with my writing too.
I needed an ass kicking. Thanks Nat.
Lots to think about here…
Tellitlikeitis,
I am way impressed that you caught on to this sly one. I don’t know that I’m there yet and honestly I still find myself pulling crap behavior like giving half truths or waiting to “feel out” the environment before I choose to be direct. It really is dishonest and a form of control.
“Blaming me to explain why he had to lie about being at work. Right?”
Kudos, because, yep, you called it BS.
Jennifer,
It took a while to get to that point of NC. I put up with a lot of excuses while dating him 10 months. He was a textbook AC. I wish I’d found this website before I met him. It would have saved me months of agonizing and trying to figure out what he thought and why he did what he did. Now I know that if I am doing that then it’s time to let the person go. In the moment it’s hard to see BS for what it is. The thing that most resonates with me is how I filtered my responses fairly early in the relationship because I didn’t want to risk losing the relationship. You’ll get there. I have yet to try on my Nat knowledge with a new guy.
Well said. And thank you for saying it.
Ick. The last person that I broke up with took a compatibility quiz together when we first started dating. He scored lowish on communcation as a “win-win” situation. He was the type who played to win, and was okay if that meant someone else lost. I remember at the time that I was a bit taken aback by that.
I scored average in interdependence, he scored low. Meaning, that I was in a healthy range, and he was a bit more independent than most.
Well fast forward 6 months and I am breaking up with him. He makes some little snide comment about my being supposedly high on dependence. I told him that I remembered that I was healthfully independent and he was a bit more independent than the average person and he said something to the effect of “This is America. Lots of people are really independent here.”
What a douche.
You know later I was so mad at myself that I did not bring up his “win lose” communication style but really bottom line; he is with someone else, I will be someday as well, and she can have his “American Independence style” and competitive “I win, you lose” communication style.
I will say it here; I will NEVER be friends with another ex again, who says one stupid shit thing like that. So in denial and so not about me.:)
Wow, that guy sounds like a prince dancingqueen! A prince among assholes. I hate that sneery shit they pull when you are actually being totally reasonable. Thanks asswipe, I forgot relationships were a game of trying to be the furthest removed from the other partner as possible. Looks like you won THAT race DQ when you dumped his ‘independent’ ass!
Yeah, DQ. I hear you. My ex-AC had that “HA! I win, you lose!” three-year old persona too. I used to beat him at Bocce ball all the time, and he hated it. For the love of GOD, it’s a freakin’ GAME, fool! The only thing I regret is losing the game to him the last day we saw each other. I’m not the type to play games to win (as if I needed to prove something; I don’t and don’t care). I play games to have FUN and connect with people, but it would have been nice to have my last meeting with this buttmunch end with a little “IN your FACE, FOOL!” Bocce victory. Ah well. A girl can dream, right? 😉
@ Rev and Miss Determined; yes you have it right it is ALL about the competition and ego.
The bright side is that we see it for what it is…the sad/boring/pathetic side is that, really, why do so many people have to be this way? It is downright exhausting dealing with that.
It gets me thinking though: you know my brother is like that and my dad as well; always the first to get the little dig in. I have a nightmare coworker like that now…and yet I have a lot of lovely people around me who are not like that. I wonder what it going on with people that they always have to blame others or invent reasons to be supposedly superior or more together…is it insecurity or narcissism or a little of both or something else?
Hi DQ, 🙂
I’m on the same page. I think it IS a little bit of insecurity made with a dash of narcissism (how’s that for one effed up cocktail? Blech!)
But after ruminating a lot on the “whats” and “whys” of these people in the past, I am finally reminded of one of my favorite expressions: “When walking down the street, don’t stop to kick every barking dog.” I just don’t care about what makes barking dogs bark anymore.
Actually, I think the expression is more like “When walking down the street, you don’t have to stop and kick every barking dog.”
Rev,
I like that! I think you are on to something. It is like aa zen koan;) “If all dogs are barking, which one should you kick? The one that is loudest, closest, or the one that is hottest?”
That is my pattern; I get insistant about kicking the hottest looking “dog” to get him to behave, when I should really not kick it at all and walk away:)
I was telling some friends yesterday how I bumped into an a-hole who two and a half months ago basically pulled the rug from underneath my feet, telling me first that he wanted a relationship with some kind of future, to being too busy and tired to have a partner (in a matter of days). I obviously told him to fuck off. Things did not end well, I was very hurt, it wasn’t like we ended anything on friendly terms. I knew nothing of him for two and a half months, and then Saturday all of a sudden I bump into him (although I have doubts to whether this was ‘accidental’) and he comes and starts talking to him like nothing happened. I was very indifferent and although not rude, just not friendly or outgoing. What made him think that all of a sudden because he felt like it we could talk like ‘friends’? So anyways I tell my friends about this, and they’re like ‘Oh, but that’s how men are’, ‘Oh but you shouldn’t be mean to him…’ WTF??????????? I have realized that a lot of poor behaviour in general is because we accept it and because these people never face the consequences of their actions. They want to treat you like shit but still be regarded as ‘nice people’. Well, not as long as I’m driving my life. Excellent and timely article.
DC: I get where your coming from:
“I was very indifferent and although not rude, just not friendly or outgoing.”
Right after the Holidays I was deleting calls from my home phone & noticed the AC had called. Curiosity took over so I returned the call. U know its been 15mths NC & I thought I am strong enough now. And as you stated above my mood was indifferent. When the call ended , yeah, there were a few tears for me for I realized what it now is. But most important I was so proud of myself for my performance & now realize I am at a really good place with it all FINALLY… That wouldnt be the case had I not found this blog that empowers me, inspires me & educates me..Its been a tough journey but I know I will never go down this road again !!!
DC,
I could also add that one of the ways how we learn to “normalise” all that AC behaviour is when we listen to people’s advice like “don’t be mean to him, its not totally his fault, thats just how men are” etc etc.
A guy can act however he likes – lie to you, cheat, pull the vanishing act on you, whatever – and you are not even supposed to say/show he is a douchebag, cause you have to keep your “dignity” and “act mature”? As if men were 3yo kids unable to evaluate their actions and consequences of them!The worst thing is they know what they do and why they do this,and they want to act so! Don’t get me wrong, I’m not saying we should burst out and start screaming, still
if we act as if nothing has happened, those ACs actually come to believe they’re all that great and women being hurt/dissapointed/etc with AC behaviour are abnormal (cause all the ex’es are so nice when ACs meet them)! I mostly practice indifference towards ACs and EUMs, yet don’t avoid saying certain things in a calm manner if I need like doing that.
Actually, I think *not pretending everything is OK* is one of my best resolutions I’ve ever made.
One of the ACs called me after 2 months after his vanishing day (like-we agree to meet on the same day and after few hours he wouldn’t answer my calls and would not return them. ever) and was genuinely surprised I didn’t recognize him by voice (or maybe he was hoping I still keep his number, lol) – after he expressed his surprise I directly asked him why would he think I would want to remember him? He had no answer to that and hasn’t called me ever since. I can’t even tell you ladies, how empowered I felt. So I’m not only saying NO to shady behaviour, but for all those rules of being a nice and friendly ex-doormat.
DC, exactly! We will realise this eventually, just a bit sad that it took me 8 months (current AC)to realise how poorly I was treated…Live and learn:)
I just had the exact same thing happen to me with a big ol’ future faker. He went from “Being with you every day would be the ideal”, referring to my kids as his future step-children to “I need a break…I don’t know if I have enough to give” within TWO days. (Side note: after I gave him the boot-I don’t do ‘breaks’-my step father, a very wise man, told me to check the on line sites to see if this guy was on…my step father said normal men don’t go from 60 to zero in two days…and sure enough, “Mr. Wonderful” had been on during the time period he started running cold)
I looked at a lot of websites devoted to relationship advice, trying to understand the concept of ‘a break’. No one had ever asked me to give them a break before, they usually just broke up! So I was wondering, Do I give this a chance? Do I just give him ‘space’ to sort out how he feels about me? SO MANY websites promote this idea of ‘the cave’ or ‘give them space’ or ‘let him sort out his thoughts’, all with the idea that if YOU do this HE will come running back to you.
Sorry, I don’t buy it. I don’t buy that we have to sit back and wait for a man to ‘decide’ if he wants to be with us, and to wait for an infinite amount of time. Yet it’s amazing how many people promote this idea. And how many women believe it. So as women put up with the “if you love something, set it free” nonsense, men get carte blanche to pull the hot/cold routine, and we’re expected to think this is how normal relationships go?
Going back to what my wise step-father would say, “That’s a load of crap.”
Tracy,
Your stepfather is a wise man. If I read one more thing about a man going to his “cave” I’m going to gouge my eyes out with a mechanical pencil. It’s bullshit.
Great post. Ex-eums definitely made up some new “transgressions” during/after the breakup that had never been mentioned throughout the relationship, of course.
My mistake was feeding to the bullshit by second-guessing myself and my instincts. The moment an EUM realizes that you doubt your own feelings and thoughts, that’s when they’ll jump on the blame train and take a free ride, “You know, you’re right, you WERE being controlling…now that you’ve apologized, I get off scot-free for my dubious behavior and will continue to engage in it.”
Bullshitters LOVE to live in their bullshit fairyland full of lovely tall tales about how we were the ones at fault (even if they at one point confessed to seeing your POV), dismissing the fact that they hurt you, acting all innocent and deserving of every good thing that comes their way and saying they are happier in this new land with their new lovers who put up with their BS than they ever could be with you, who calls them out on it.
Let them enjoy their paper paradise for now. It will all hopefully come crumbling down soon enough 🙂 (usually I would be more mature than this, but, in the manner of AC’s and EUM’s, I’ll let myself off the hook this time!)
GREAT POST!!!!
Yeah I got all the blame in my last relationship apparently it was all my fault for his actions.
He gave me a lot of BS excuses and I being foolish at the time bought into it all, thought if I did things differently I’d be good or even good enough, but it’s like moving the proverbial picture around the room, there is never going to be a spot big enough or good enough and you make yourself crazy for trying with these rumdumbs.
I don’t know why it’s got to be so hard all the time “Love Care Trust and Respect.”
oh yeah my EX has let most of my friends know he’s single again and their so “Excited” about it LOL
Why is he telling my friends this??? my guess is, So they will tell me and I’ll jump for joy at the chance of getting mind effed again…HA HA HA HA
I consider myself to be many things, stupid however is not one of them.
“where they’re blamed for the other person’s wrongdoings or the fact that their actions failed to match their words”
Loved this one!! The ex-AC said that our biggest problem was that I wanted to argue all the time – LMAO – it wasn’t because he was a liar, a cheat, and had problems with alcohol and drugs. AND had to have a harem of women to bolster his EGO!! I even said – was I not suppose to scream while he was screwing me in the “a**”. I mean really – was I just suppose to say it was all ok.
Anywho – wish I walked away sooner!! 15 months NC!!!
In the last four years I have really learned (from my head to my heart) that my dysfunctional family (including extended family) has tried to tell me my reality because the majority didn’t want to take responsibility for their crap. I have filtered out alot of people, including lots of family, who lay their crap on me – I’m tired of it. With that being said thank God for the people who listen to me and help me decipher what truly belongs to me (my responsibilty) and what belongs to others and that I can do this for myself more as an adult vs a child in an alcohoic/abusive home.
My ex of seven days used a BS excuse of me being in a bad mood and ignoring him as a reason to start a major argument in public with throwing things, talking me down and walking away demonstratively. This was the first in the series of his attempts to pick on me in every possible way. He would then say it’s my fault the fights would always restart when I was trying to talk about the matter in a calm way. He diagnosed me with OCD because I keep my place clean. He almost destroyed my emotional balance which I needed decades to achieve. He then broke up in an e-mail due to the major character differences, which he discovered during his short visit. All this after telling me for more than half a year how gorgeous I am and how he loves all my moods.
Needless to say, I am struggling hard not to accept his BS reasoning and to blame myself for the break-up. I just know that there is no way I can cause so much trouble to a person in a couple of days. The only consolation is that should we stay together longer, I would eventually be blamed for every misfortune that would happen to him. This was an especially refined form of emotional abuse, and he kept these ways well hidden until he decided it’s time to open up and show the true nature. I still shudder when I think of his sadistic smile when he would pick on me verbally or pinch me and enjoy how I desperately try to defend myself.
Natalie, thanks for posting this. This and other posts slowly make me realize I’m better off without him and that I’m not some crazy hysterical woman, but an individual who has a right to speak up when things go wrong in a relationship.
Lasorciere
I don’t think things “went wrong” in your relationship, I think you were involved with a woman-hating, dangerous sadist. Your story was one of those that make me shudder to read. I hope he is well and truly out of your life, but it makes me fear for any women (or children) he may get involved with in the future.
What I like the most about being NC and not seeing the former King of BS Hill, is how your mind is free of trying to figure out mind effery. No longer are you dealing with strange situations and even weirder excuses, searching for logic, when there isn’t any. If I hadn’t found this sight almost 6 months ago, I would have never known about future faking and all manner of mind f*ck that is perpetrated on a daily basis. Perfectly smart, wonderful, accomplished women (men too) are taken in by all these BS excuses.
“You will also find that all of the ‘small’ and ‘medium’ sized things that you assign you the responsibility of gradually build up and you end up fatigued.” Wow Nat! That’s what got me in the end. The draining and exhausting existence you have trying to make sense out of behavior that never makes sense. I really had no energy for the drama and pyrotechnic lies and stories that ended up going nowhere. Unless you wanted to go upstairs and get your “kit” off. Ha ha! no more of that!
BTW,Tellitlikeitis, congratulations on 9 months of NC. Tonight is 9 weeks for me. I can’t wait till it’s 9 months! You are an inspiration, as all the Baggage Reclaimer’s are! If it wasn’t for this site I would still be listening to BS excuses like “a lot of sh*t goin down”. “I left my sprinklers on”. “I picked up a girl with crusty lips who wanted to give me a BJ, but nothing happened” (a personal favorite) “Went to a bar and met some girls, but don’t worry, blah, blah” “I have low self esteem because of my dyslexia, want to get your kit off?”
I really love your writing style. What you write is soooooo true! But the WAY you write it, makes me laugh at some of my own foolish behavior. Makes me think, “Been there. Done that. Got the t-shirt.” 🙂
Awesome. Thanku Natalie.
This reminds me of a relationshit I had a long time ago back in grizzly country. We were in the backcountry with our dogs. Both dogs take off towards a stream and I spot a bear cub running away on the other side. I call off the dogs, get my bear spray off safety (was right in my hand) and “cover” this dude whose bear spray is buried in his pack. I walk slowly back tell the guy not to run or yell and he runs full tilt past me leaving me to deal with mama bear solo. Later HE stops calling me and blames ME for him hurting his knee while running away (he had hurt his knee severely years before I’d even moved there) and MY dog was responsible for the whole incident though the two dogs were togther. Was the beginning of the end.
Miskwa! That poor baby, you hurt his knee! I hope you called him a waaaaaambulance.
Just as an aside, I think you’re amazing and the life you lead sounds so conducive to healing. I’m quite envious. All that fresh air and nature. You have so much integrity, and refuse to be no one else but you. I imagine your ‘youness’ will go wherever you do and someone, somewhere will be incredibly attracted by it, so chin up. Just keep doing what you’re doing girlfiend (not a spelling mistake).
Agree with girls, you are star Miskwa! WOW to save yourself and AC’s ass from bear! I don’t know what I could have done in this situation, probably run quicker than AC:)
miskwa
ooh you are awesome! him not so much.
Miskwa,
Grace is right. You’re a freakin’ badass. Too bad you didn’t leave him to get his ass chewed by a grizzly. But, you live you learn. 😉
Mouth hanging open! What a hero!
Miskwa I gotta say that you are setting a high standard for the next man, even if it is not your fault; what man would NOT be intimidated by a woman who could fight off a bear! Lol. *Kind* of emasculates;). Oh well, the right guy would have bragged about it to all his friends. What real man would not love a woman who could tame a bear;)!
For some reason this post really spoke to me regarding our favorites, the “Future Fakers”. I recently allowed myself to be future faked for over 20 months by someone who is in an extremely (physically, emotionally, financially) abusive relationship. While I understand through a lot of self-imposed research on the topic, that those relationships are extremely difficult to leave (and they have been going at it now for almost 17 years, to boot) the lies this person told me about wanting to start a glorious beautiful life with me are what devastates me the most along with the excuses for remaining there and making ABSOLUTELY NO structured plans on gathering themselves together and at least ATTEMPTING to start a future with me. I started NC on September 21, which I broke only when they bought me flowers for my birthday (which I had done for them, so of course my first thought was they were only doing it out of some sort of twisted feeling of obligation or to make me feel badly for starting NC) in October, and now it’s been NC since October 29th, and 225 emails, YES 225 (because gmail does not let you block) they have gone from begging, pleading, and sounding pathetic to telling me they hate me and I was wrong in this, blah blah blah. Talk about a regret hangover! And while it is embarrassing that I allowed my morals and values to fall to the wayside for those almost 2 years and slowly let it get worse and worse, I finally realized that all of the BS they were feeding me and the behaviors they were exhibiting were THEIR issues, and not mine. And really, other peoples’ bad behaviors and shitty choices and treatment of us, have nothing to do with us, but are THEIR problem, and we should NOT NOT NOT NOT NOT be basing our self worth and self value on any of it. Still a work in progress for me, but I am definitely getting there. They lose out on us. They don’t get to have us anymore. It angers them, though most will never admit it.
Hey MJ
You can block in gmail by setting up a rule – mine auto-deletes any emails from my future-faker and replies with a ‘your mail has been deleted unread” message – I think you can also delete without sending the mail. But I like keeping it in so he’d know I wasn’t reading anything he sent, and that I wasn’t giving him a conscious thought anymore
Now that I´m focusing on the source of my AC experiences – the legacy left by my narc father – I recognize these same dynamics in the relationship I have with him. The complex thing is that I´ve related to him all my life, so most of these reactions are firmly ingrained in me.
Now that I read this last post, I remembered one time, not so long ago, when my father insisted I listen to him. He was trying to feed me a far-fetched story about all the excuses why he let me down at one time or another (one of the many), and why doing this was completely reasonable.
Aka a load of BS.
At one point, as he´s always done since I was a kid, he exclaimed But Lilia, you are not listening! I can´t explain anything to you if you don´t listen to me, it´s no use if you behave like this! (like I am the hopeless daughter)
To which I replied No, I am listening and I hear what you´re saying but I just don´t agree with you.
This was such an accomplishment. I´d never said something like that before, something that put an abrupt end to the endless feeding of BS (and me getting indigested).
He was quite mad. For me, it was a relief.
BS-ers want you to get entangled in their web of confusion and manipulation, so you´ll let them of the hook. Thanks NML for your writings, you really make me see things more and more clearly.
Great post Nat! The more I think about what you have written I notice how much we have embraced some sort of victim mentality. When such men blame us for their behavior (as a way to not self-reflect and quite frankly deal with their own shit) we internalize it and blame ourselves. I was in this situation as well. I have realized by reading more and dealing with my emotions that unhealthy relationships based on this blame game also set us us as bully vs victim. I for once readily embraced the role of the victim and internalized the blaming. It has taken a lot of shit including a break up and NC for me to realize the assshole for who he was. And also to realize that I too played into the victim role. For me this was an important step because I realized that I was giving him so much power. I set him up in his position. And it is time for me to be in the driver’s seat. In an unhealthy relationship its so easy to fall into the victim’s position. However, when u see the light and work on yourself you can be in control of your own life again!
Also I want to add that the bully vs victim role is also about socialization. It is not a coincidence that most victims of domestic violence are women. What is victims of domestic violence told: “I didnt mean to hurt you! You pushed me there” Women have been socialized to accept blame and to be selfless and we need to stop! We don’t need to accept everything that he says about us! I know so many women that are doing the work of really dealing with their issues, (self-esteem especially in our culture) and I hope that men too one day do that work as well.
This one is HUGE for me, to the point where I believed my OWN bullshit. I think the truth was just too fucked up to confront.
For example, before the ex AC, I was married for about 5 tepid minutes. This guy had a bevy of damsels in distress he used to ‘white knight’ for (the male equivalent of Florencing? I interpreted this as ‘caring’. Sure, why not!) and while definitely not my physical type, he stood out as a veritable Mr Darcy from the parade of horreurs that had comprised my dating lineup to date. Of course in Ms Determined’s mind, that meant DING DING DING DING obviously he was HUSBAND MATERIAL! So much so, that I proposed to HIM. Oh, what. The. Fuck.
Well.
A very dear, very gay friend of mine told me over the weekend that he had come across this ex-husband at a notorious ‘beat’ in town. The ex husband pretended not to know who my once mutual friend was, and suggested they ‘get busy’ there! I didn’t feel anything. Actually I ceased having feelings for this guy before we were even married (delusional much?) and if anything upset me about this revelation it was only that THERE IS NO NEED FOR ANYONE TO STAY LOCKED IN THAT SHITTY CLOSET, IT’S 2013 PEOPLE, but it did make sense of some of his weird behaviour in the relationship. That and the fact I once caught him looking at gay porn…”only out of interest, you understand”. Oh my fucking god, the things I have allowed, dare I say even encouraged myself to believe!
On some level I did know something was up, because I ran away from him to Europe and met my handsome, much younger, knee trembling, knicker dissolving ex AC who seemed to magically know everything about me and what I wanted in a man. And the rest, as they say, is fucking assclown history.
In spite of pretty good self esteem right now, there are still lingering concerns I have in trusting myself to separate what is real and what I think is real. Maybe those two concepts are mutually exclusive. I dunno (and any ideas would be welcome). But it’s definitely time to upgrade to the Bullshit Detector Deluxe 3000® (which I believe also goes by the name of ‘The Dreamer and the Fantasy Relationship.’)
Ms Determined “This guy had a bevy of damsels in distress he used to ‘white knight’ for – my ex also liked to ‘save’ woman. However he never attempted to ‘save’ me – most of the time if I expressed any kind of emotion he got angry as if I wasn’t human and didn’t have any feelings at all
so when 2 people are in a comitted relationship and one still tell people she is single because shes afraid to explain to people who her partner is, is this a BS reason??
Massive red flag Rita
Rita,
Get out!
Rita,
mega BS, run!
Great post as usual Nat!
I tend to have a pretty accurate intuitive sense about many of the people that I meet and decide to pursue either a friendship or a romantic relationship with, and can often ‘feel’ when someone is disingenuous. My biggest problem is that I tend to second guess myself and give the person the benefit of the doubt. In the end I always get hurt. I now pay very close attention to my intuition and have learned from the school of hard knocks to follow my first mind so to speak. My mother used to say, “Sometimes you have to bump your head a few times before you finally learn from your mistakes.” Well…after years and years of bumping my head, I have finally learned some sense.
Me too on the “benefit-of-the-doubt”ing, Gina. (By the way, got your shout-out in the last post. Thanks. :))
What I’ve learned (and possibly you have too) is that, once your intuition kicks in and goes on red alert with an ingenuous person, you don’t have to be RUDE. It’s not like you have to go all Incredible Hulk on them. You can simply say a gracious “No thank you” to them, energy-wise, and be on your merry way. It doesn’t need to be knockdown-drag out; it can be very gracious. But firm. These are reminders I use for myself, anyway. 🙂
I think I “benefit of the doubt” too:my most recent ex did all sorts of nice stuff for me; flowers, wine and always mowing the yard. But emotionally he never said things, never verbally expressed caring, and after a while, I felt just bored, sad, unattracted and…dead.
Why did I not trust myself that I needed more? Why did I let others tell me that there are many different ways to express affection…when in my heart I knew that I needed BOTH words and gestures. For me, both matter.
Live and learn. It is so hard to listen to yourself though, because I really get confused sometimes between if I am worrying for no reason, or worrying for a reason…
This post makes so much sense.
My AC told me when I caught him sleeping someone else that much of our issues were mine, I had trust issues, I was paranoid. I was so bad for checking his phone!
I tried arguing that if he didn’t have anything to hide it wouldn’t be a problem I looked at his phone.
He was angry blamed me that he had to dump me because there was no trust. He called me wrong in the head and that I was at fault. I was a jealous girl who wouldn’t allow him to be friends with anyone.
He also said I obviously thought our relationship was much further than it was. How dare I judge him as I am seperated but not officially divorced.
I have for the past 5months had NC but I made the mistake of checking his Facebook. He is so happy always out and his new girlfriend has taken him to the States on holiday.
My self esteem is so low because I believe him thinking I’m a freak. I question if I am a paranoid person, am I difficult, am I jealous.
I envy his ability to be so carefree. So able to wipe the slate clean and just enjoy his life.
I know I just make the decision to move on, to rebuild myself. Just now I feel so ill.
So sick
Naz, Wow! I can so relate to parts of your story; “How dare I judge him as I am separated but not officially divorced”. This was his repeated female friends rationale to push him to break things off with me. He’s also younger than me. Sometimes, he makes me feel like a princess, but others, I feel I have to compete for him with his harem of “friends” who all have a huge crush on him. I used to trust him so much because I thought, “well, he always had those friends available all the time, but he ended up choosing me” He’s also more committed and responsible than most his age, something I took as sign of maturity and reason why he fell for me and not them. But, after he broke things off a few times, the last being because of another crazy chick, I’m finding it hard to trust him the way I used to. He doesn’t get it; that once trust is broken, it can take years if ever to be rebuilt again. I don’t know if we’ll ever have what we had again, but the point is, I know where you’re coming from. If you felt you had to dig after your ex AC and play 007 because of previous incidents, then you have every reason to. But then again, come to think of it, a relation with doubt is very tiring for both partners; he HAD TO regain your trust and work hard to prove he was worth it. If not, then there’s probably reason for that; he’s not planning to stop or he’s not feeling guilty enough of what he did. Not guilty = possibility of repetition. Don’t beat yourself up about it.
I personally believe a person’s phone and computer should be private, so if you can’t trust him enough with those, then you have to figure out why. Is it because something he did provoked it or you just need to relax? I’m not talking about this AC, because obviously he didn’t deserve any bit of trust, and no, if he did cheat after you looked into his stuff, it’s NOT your fault, he probably went haywire about it because he did have something to hide in the first place. But, generally speaking, I think there should be a minimum amount of trust and that is their personal belongings. If he’s a cheat, he’ll be good at it, and might be able to put strong passwords and hidden accounts. So, it’s a useless headache. My opinion is to evaluate the person as a whole and whether he’s worth your trust or not, then decide to either relax and enjoy the relationship or Flush!!
Don’t give up.. I always remind myself of Nemo’s “just keep swimming” easier said than done, but.. Just Keep Swimming! (((hugs))) 🙂
@ Naz,
I agree with MSA; there should be a minimal amount of trust.
That said…
Ny advice for future phone snooping; if you want to snoop, you don’t trust. If you don’t trust, there is a reason. If there is a reason, lurking there somewhere, then you should openly try to discuss it, and, if they are being evasive, you should break up.
Now, from there, if you want to snatch that phone when they are not looking, just to double-check your paranoid thoughts I won’t blame you. But really lets fact it, most of us have good intuition. If you are wanting to check on someone’s phone, your intuition is ringing and probably right.You probably should not look because who really wants to see that proof. His behavior when you express your concerns will probably tell you all you need to know.
Nothing kills my ladyboner for a guy like the urge, nay COMPULSION to snoop on him. I am never giving any these stupid fuckers the benefit of the doubt, ever again. Not EVEN once. BubBYE asshole!
My ex AC knew I went through his phone from time to time (I just about died of shame every time, but not enough to stop doing it) so he made sure he kept all of his texts and call lists empty after I found some questionable messages from girls listed under their first names only in his phone. Oh yes, of course he explained them all away.
For some reason, he left any records of communication from me ON the phone. When I questioned why his phone only contained texts from me in spite of his phone beeping day and night like a demented road runner, he replied that I was the only person in the world who mattered to him so mine were the only ones worth keeping. I knew this was BS of course.
I know this next bit will make me sound completely fucking crazy and I sure as hell count this as the lowest I point I hit in my LIFE, but hey, I’ll cop to it anyway (and don’t do this ever because, it might be, well, ILLEGAL). In the end I installed some undetectable keystroke logging software on my computer (which he used, often). I captured his passwords to everything, and then discovered EXACTLY what I was dealing with, and it was a million times worse than I’d suspected. Fucker couldn’t argue with the lovingly bound brick of a dossier I compiled of his crimes to confront him with.
I can’t BELIEVE I resorted to such a dignity annihilating manoeuvre, but I got to the point where catching him out in his BS, and proving the accusations I had been jumping up and down about for years was NECESSARY to prove to myself that I was not, in fact, insane. I couldn’t let him get away with it (now I see I shouldn’t have bothered. I knew enough to run like Hussein Bolt).
Fucker’s response to being presented with the proof? Yep, you guessed it:
“How dare you invade my privacy!” BREATHTAKING.
Ms Determined,
Don`t feel bad, I too, in various AC scenarious would have gone to those lenths if I had the necessary skills. The compulsion to “prove ” me was certainly as strong as yours. The assclowns do drive us to craziness but now we know that all we need is our intuition. I do admire your spunk and your posts always put a smile of my face !
Wow Ms Determined, you really are a resourceful lady!
I think you did the right thing, if you can´t trust the guy and he´ll deny everything to death it´ll only give you some peace of mind to have your suspicions confirmed.
Why is it we feel bad when we confront men with evidence of their wrongdoings AND they have the nerve to blame us for obtaining that evidence? I was shown this idiotic video today of a lady stealing corn and insulting the farmer for chasing her away – attack is the best defense, right?
Naz, dancingqueen is SPOT ON.
Naz, that his girlfriend has “taken him to the States” after about 5 months is pretty telling. Do you wonder why he looks so happy? He’s found someone else to use, and apparently she has means. She’ll find out who he is sooner or later. Just be thankful you aren’t her and you are on your way to being indifferent to that assclown. Imagine what the world would be like if women everywhere gave assclowns the bird instead of shouting them on overseas trips! I hope he fucks up while they’re away and she plants drugs in his luggage.
Wow!!! I think I had gotten some kind of selective amnesia of what my ex-husband has been doing for a whole of almost 10 years, the guilt trips he’d take me on, the blaming and all the load of BS of how an unloving and unwise wife I was. That was a refresher lol. Gosh! I used to think, “how come he’s the ONLY person who sees me as such when everyone else sees me as kind, caring and pleasant!” When I asked him, guess what he replied! “They don’t have to live with you daily”. WTF!! It took me TEN years to realize this is all BS. When I saw a therapist, the word “I’m sorry” would slip out of my mouth a lot. He’d almost yell at me, “Stop apologizing left and right, it’s what gave him power to ride your conscience like he did”. It dawned on me then. I’ve always thought it’s a sign of strong character when you admit you’re wrong and apologize, but I took it too far and he preyed on it. By the end of the relationship; when I realized what was going on, I told him, “Why don’t you blame me for the global warming or the war on Iraq or pollution too? Those might be my fault, huh”. I always seemed to make him angry, and it was my fault if I’m angry as well. He never owned any mistake he did, just casually saying, “Yeah, I have my mistakes. Everyone does. See what other men are like, why don’t their wives complain and whine all the time the way you’re doing?” A total mind-f!!! Even till now, when I asked him on Christmas if he wanted to take the kids somewhere or do I take them out. I ended up “acting as if he’s not their father and taking control of them”. I mean, listen to yourself, really? So, I wasn’t checking with HIM first? Riiight!!
Glad this is clear at least. I so hope this best friend of mine (ex-bf with feelings still) doesn’t turn up the same. He’s kinda living in a fairy tale, and gets agitated at the first sign of conflict. I’m keeping my eyes open and my fingers crossed.
If Nat has something to say about how healthy conflicts can be for a relationship, I’d like to hear what is the acceptable and normal thing. He’s really confusing me, and I’m confusing myself too. Like I said before, he’s the one who’s been traumatized a lot in his life, he’s kinda vulnerable with a tough guy mask. He’s getting therapy now. I’m supporting him, but I don’t want to be trespassing my own worth either. We had a slightly rough patch a couple of days ago and now I’m kinda beating myself up, then thinking I shouldn’t, then back to wishing we’d talk it out… Sounds like another mind-f?!!! Urgh!! I so hope not
MSA,
I hope you stand your ground and not shy away from conflict, if differences arise, otherwise you`ll find yourself with no voice and a lot of frustration. I think you need to remember, his issues are his…you are not his councellor. He might not be able/willing to deliver on the relationship front. If he is getting the therapy for the right reasons he will want to talk things out. Sometimes people do therapy to show to themselves that they are doing something about their issues but are not commited to it.I think if he is not open to talking you`ll be pulling this wagon on by yourself…
What a beautiful read.
Natalie if I have failed to say it before. Thank you for being you and providing this safe space where I can continue to learn and grow.
My current AC sent another email and it does mean NOTHING for me, I do not have “butterflies in the stomach”, I am not bothered:)I am SO grateful to you Nat, your words of wisdom finally sink-in-into my head! I will NEVER take any BS from anyone:) Hallelujah!!!
Little Star,
Good for you!
Why haven’t you blocked?
You know Allison, I realised that it will be easy to block him, but I want him to see that his emails reached me and I intentionally IGNORING them:) Funny, Alison my all love and desire is gone, I am surprised myself! Probably I had “ENOUGH” moment BUT Natalie’s posts were the MAIN CONTRIBUTION:)
Star,
You will have truly let go when you block.
I think that by knowing they still ‘want’ us in some way, it is some form of validation. If it didn’t matter, you would not have posted about his contact.
Hon, be honest with yourself.
what if its your boss wanting you to swallow bs? If in the end you know its BS and don’t believe it.
For the last 11 weeks since the break down of my 5 year relationship, Ive replayed the BS reasons my ex gave me for why he didnt love me anymore.
Ive been beating myself up that the so called valid reasons for him leaving me were all my fault and he had nothing, absolutely nothing to do with them. Its only now that Im realising that the BS he has passed onto me are not due to what Ive done but are his issues, he is the one uncertain about where his future lies, he was the one that lost his way not me. He was a future faker and I didnt realise it until he decided he wanted out.
I wish I hadnt put up with all the BS over the years – he completely wore down my self esteem and confidence. I only hope that I can gain some self respect back soon so I can accept and move on to my next chapter as we all should and completely deserve!
Oh, what a tangled web these ass-wipes weave. The mind games can drive one insane. Sometimes it’s hard to determine what’s real and what’s utter bullshit. Here’s to getting better at deciphering the bullshit and not taking it on as one’s own.
I think the above post definitely applies to other forms of relationships as well. My mom and by brother had been visiting me this pastwl week and I, unfortunately, was having the busiest week at work, 70 hours plus, amidst having to study for the bar exam and also in the midst of switching jobs. While dropping my brother at the airport, my brother tells me dont make mom do stuff for you, I didnt let that bother me because I know i dont, I’ve been so busy that I actually think that I might soon suffer from vitamin D (sunlight) deficiency. Anyhoo, I go home for dinner last night not wanting my mom to eat along, and she starts getting on my case for not being hospitable to my brother an how I was neglecting to care for my guests. For the record, I stuffed my fridge with food so that They wouldn’t gp hungry. I bought them food for their mini roadtrip, the milk ran out and the bread ran out and my mom tells me that all she could feed my brother was a cup of coffee and nothing else for breaky. While I understand i should have gone to get it, I was coming home at 11 at night pn a daily basis and waking up at 7 to go to work. I dont think I deserve to hear this at dinner. So i eat dinner go back to work and return at 11. I can tell she’s been cryin and she starts getting on my.case for not eating. She starts telling me that she’s been here a month and she hasnt seen me eat anything on my own. I admit that Ive been busy but rest assured im equally concerned abt my health. She keeps naggin me at 1140 at night. I was so frustrated and so angry, all i wanted was to have a good meal w her, she kept nagging me and i didnt know what to do, i just wante to disappear and i just started banging my head on the wall. I havent cried in ages, but yeterday I just broke down. I told her I’m
Not perfect, and she tells me that when she leaves for home, she’s going to die out of worrying abt me. I told her if that’s your way of motovating me to eat healthy then thats sick. And w my head hurting i slept. Have i gone nuts? Im starting to understand that I dont get a long with my mom or dad pr brother, but I am scared to admit it and I dont know why. I’ve done all I can and i still fail and i still get judged. Ive finished law school and Im working for a good firm ud think the least they could be is proud of me of making it this far. I’m angry and i dont know why im being made to believe that I’m the one to blame.
Hope,
Do they realize how busy you are? If not, I would be certain to point it out. I really think you need to sit down with your mother and tell her how you feel – about everything- or it will only get worse.
Please start demonstrating some boundaries with your family, as they are being disrespectful.
FYI: I just did the same with my parents, and things are better.
Hope
Last time I saw my mother she was in a bad mood and literally shrieking at me. I took off into the corner to play on my ipad until she calmed down.
She didn,t get the benefit of my wondrous company, shame.
As long as no one gets hurt, do what you have to do, ie not headbanging.
Ignore it, leave the room, go for a walk.
Don.t explain or apologise or defend yourself unless they get physical, in which case still just leave. They don.t get it and you waste your breath and only stress yourself trying to make them get it.
I understand how you feel.
“I’ve done all I can and I still fail and i still get judged. Ive finished law school and Im working for a good firm ud think the least they could be is proud of me of making it this far.”
Been there, done that. I’m studying to pass a licensing exam but I quickly realized this: when I’m not licensed, family members like yours will just keep nagging me to hurry up. Then, when I actually get my license? They’ll either use that to justify the nagging or say “You know what, this isn’t enough, you need to go to grad school.” They’re backseat drivers and are probably trying to prevent you from making whatever mistake they think they made (don’t try to find out what it is, though, it just gets worse). As another family member told me, “You gotta make these achievements for YOU” because, even if other people don’t always acknowledge what you’ve done, YOU know what you’re capable of.
Natalie,
Thanks to you, I have left the EUMs and ACs in the rearview mirror and am driving forward into a new future. However, your posts apply to more than just romantic relationships. They extend into platonic friendships and business dealings and hit the nail right on the head!
I recently just encountered this exact issue with a new friendship/business relationship. This person called himself a Buddhist teacher and I was platonically recreating my relationship sap with him, putting his demands and needs before mine, changing my schedule to accommodate him because, as he instructed me, this is what a student does for their teacher.
This has to be the BIGGEST type of manipulation I have encountered to date. But I believed it, much like I believed it was ok for my mother to abuse me because my father said I had to since she was mentally ill.
I read Nat’s post about boundaries last week and the bells started to go off. My gut was telling me this is not someone who was treating me with “loving kindness” and “respect” as it should be in Buddhism.
This “teacher” was very adamant about scheduling and convinced me to setup a Google calendar just so things were “set in stone”. As quickly as I adhered to his request, he started changing the schedules we had set, not respecting the fact that I am a single mother, a full time employee, and also going to school! His excuse was that he had told me this earlier in the week via IM – and how could I forget? He told me he was going to prove this to me by bringing up the IM chats we had(this is untrue btw)When I asked him gently about our changed schedule I noticed his temperament changed so I tried to be nicer in order to show this “respect” that he requested. I happily and kindly said that if he was unavailable we could reschedule for the next day. He called this suggestion spiteful. When I heard those words, the first thing that came to mind was, RUN. GET OUT. This is NOT healthy. The previous time we had a similar disagreement, he did exactly what this post said, and blamed me for not respecting his schedule or time. And this is in a TOTALLY platonic situation!
I owe this realization to Nat’s post on Boundaries and I did not feed into his anger that followed. I went to bed that night feeling relieved, changed. I no longer felt guilty for expressing my boundaries. I no longer was manipulated by his “status”. I feel I can easily walk away and have no regrets. Thank you Nat!
Ran into an ex the other day, we dated 15yrs ago. Live in the same neighborhood, rarely cross paths. She’s a piece of work, prolly a Narcissist. I’m way over her, and was in a good mood, so pulled over with a big smile and a friendly hello. Typically for her she “was in a hurry and can’t talk”. Stupid me thinking a nice hello would be met with the same. So I said, ok, bye. She texted me right away some BS about being busy but “really wanting to get together and have a drink”. I laughed at my phone, and deleted her lock stock and barrel.
I’d kept her number for 15years even though she is a nut case only because of history? She was one of the ones you think of as family (crazy family, but still family).
Now, the new BR me realizes that I don’t need nothing from her ever again, I don’t even need to know if her cat dies…
The time of hanging onto people who do me no good is well over and done with.
I bet her panties we in a big old twist when I didn’t respond back. I’m so glad I have this new clarity. Thanks you guys!
A very well-thought-out post, Natalie. Brava. It reminds me of something I read in a book called “Dealing with Manipulative People” by Dr. George Simon (if my memory serves correctly). He basically splits people into two categories, and I forget the terms he used for each, but I think it was Character Disordered vs. Neurotics. Basically, the Character Disordered never think they’re wrong and don’t hesitate to blame others for their actions, while the Neurotics tend to turn blame towards themselves as a first reaction. They are overly sensitive to the fact that they might have done something wrong, and so they often accept blame even when it’s not warranted.
I am a Neurotic, and I would venture to say most of us on this site are probably the same, given the circumstances we’ve found ourselves in with these relationships. Although I’ve always stood up for myself, inside I’ve always self-blamed, even for the incessant bullying that I endured at a young age by both children AND adults.
Why do you think I’m such a raging bitch now? 😉
Had this all my life. Mum is manipulative lying narc. Any time I tried, in any pitiful tiny kind of way to assert any type of boundary, she would get hysterical and call me a control freak, so I would back down. I became known in the family as a control freak and I guess over the years I just accepted that as that is what she said I was, then I must be it. I transferred this self belief into all my relationships, even though, looking back, it was never true. This belief allowed people to get away with all kinds of assholery.
My ex husband was violent and blamed it on me. If I hadn’t complained at him for being (three hours) home late, he would never have punched me in the face, knocked me to the floor and then kicked me between the legs (wearing shoes) dontcha know. When he ended up with a criminal record for the attack he was incandescent with rage, telling me “You have ruined my career!” Mum agreed with him of course!
Oh you have to laugh.
Ex narc had a totally different line which was that everything was his fault but “I just don’t know what I want.”
Thanks to Natalie I now know that having healthy boundaries does not make you a control freak.
Wow – I have just recently read Mr. Unavailable and the Fallback Girl and have now found this wonderful site and all of the amazing people that are on here. I am four days into no contact with a married man that was “supposedly separated” at the time approximately 3 years ago. Everything was great at first – he gave me all his love and attention and then he decided to stay with wife (for the kids’ sake, of course). So I tried backing off at that point, he reeled me back in when he said he needed me, because his wife was diagnosed with cancer. So I tried being there for him, but then he started to blow cold of course – so I checked his calendar on his email and noticed that it appeared that he had been seeing someone else as well. So I told him what I saw, he went off on me for invading his personal space and said he put that on there as a trap for me! So stupidly, I believed him and things carried on – from a distance. Well, wife did pass away in December and he said – I need time, space to deal with this (which I understood). He came our for visit and was a little off – so after he went home again, checked his calendar and wouldnt you know – that night he got home, he had put in saw so and so for this and that. Again I told him what I saw and he again said – he knew he couldnt trust me and set a trap – told me I had trust issues and needed to work on that. I just said yeah you are right and said goodbye. Didnt want to believe that he was that kind of man – but I think I am getting it finally!
I’m not trying to be flippant here, but why do women who date married men have a hard time believing he could be that kind of man, a liar and a cheat? It’s not one white elephant in the room, it’s 100. Take your blinders off. A married man who engages in an affair is a selfish liar, a sneak and a cheat otherwise he wouldn’t be sneaking around to see YOU. All the perfectly sensible reasons he gives you why he is cheating on his wife is shined up shit on a plate. Feeling special enough to have a married man leave his wife for you is a fantasy. You are better than that, you deserve better than a man who keeps you on hold in the closet while he has his cake and eats it too. We wonder why we get dirty when we hop in the pen with a pig.
Selkie,
exactly! As I say, a married man is a dead man – as a potential mate, he simply doesn’t exist.
This is where it gets hard. I wasn’t the other woman (sounds like Selkie wasn’t either), I was the one that got cheated on (…of course, it was TOTALLY an accident that he screwed her). If there were words to describe how badly that hurt on so many levels, I would. Long after I forget the man, I’ll remember all that hurt. At least if you’re the other woman, you have some heads up to the fact that the guy doesn’t have a problem with deceit.
On the other hand, they are talented actors and masterful manipulators, so much so that their best friends are unaware of their true nature. They are cons, and they are good at it. He fooled me big time, and he fooled all the other women he cheated on me with.
Selkie, I don’t think you are being flippant and I’ve tried to develop an elegant response to your question as to why I, as a former OW, had a hard time seeing that the exMM was a liar and a cheat. Umm, I couldn’t come up with an elegant response. Is all I can say is I bought the bullshit. I offloaded my own truth, morals, and values (what little I had), in favor of his perspective. Then I bought my own pile of stinking bullshit as to why I was sticking around in the pen with a pig. I had, as Nat describes “a Very Dodgy Perspective” which was ripe for his “Very Dodgy Reasoning”. In order to buy the BS he was selling, I had to buy my own BS. I legitimized all sorts of crap. It was a fantasy that burst with a thud leaving me with shined up shit all over my face.
It wasn’t the first time, however. It was a pattern with me. Just cos he said it, I believed it no matter how far his actions and words diverged. It’s just not okay to accept boundary busting behavior from anybody. Period.
Runnergirl,
I haven’t been involved with a married man, but I’ve been involved with bad men just the same and I sucked up the BS too because I didn’t trust my own gut screaming at me. It’s a paradoxical dynamic that paves the way for us to get in the pig pen it just seems so silly when you’ve been drama free for a while and can look at it objectively. Will I see it this way when and if the occasion presents itself to me next time? Will I see it objectively or will I regress and dive back into pig pen? I THINK I have learned enough and have positively changed in a way that I won’t betray myself like that again. I haven’t tested the theory yet, as I’ve been comfortable in my singleness lately and haven’t dated. I liked reading about your online dating adventures….they helped ME, like an interactive lesson vicariously through you as you avoided getting in the pig pen. I have been rooting for you.
Selkie,
I totally agree about being drama free for a while. It does allow for some objectivity to sink in. I think for me, the turning point has been listening to what they say, watching what they do, and then deciding if that is something I want to engage in. It’s like having a choice! Prior to BR, I didn’t know I had a choice (insert frown face here). So if you listen, you’ll know what to do. My Sunday online date was one of those situations. He immediately fessed up to having trust issues because his 30 yro gf used him and dumped him for her ex. He kept claiming that he looked 38, he was 46, and “looked 46” to me. Already too much drama for me and clearly not over his ex. So no way. Trust me, when you trust you, you’ll know how to hop right out of the pig pen. It smells even though they tell you it doesn’t. Trust your nose.
Thank you for rooting for me. Dating has been a total eye opener.
Finallyawake, your exMM was the most disgusting creature, his WIFE had a cancer and he was playing around with you:(
“It’s not that I got drunk and forgot to call you back, it’s that I forgot that my phone hung up on you.”
Referring to his ex: “She had sex with me on our first date. She initiated it. I felt used and tried to make her my girlfriend and it was this vicious cycle.”
“Well 9 isn’t going to happen.” After calling 40 minutes after he had said he was going to pick me up.
“I’m moving in September and I’m afraid I’m going to hurt you.” Said moments before I broke up with his lying ass.
And there you have it BR readers, just a few of my ex assclown’s bizarro excuses.
^regarding my above post^
Just realized third excuse down isn’t even an excuse. I guess he just gave up on that one. NOPE! I remember:
“No girl has ever cared before.”- On being forty minutes late without calling.
Jennifer Tiffany,
This is one of the best: “It’s not that I got drunk and forgot to call you back, it’s that I forgot that my phone hung up on you.” Now that is the best BS. These AC’s depend on their cell phones. Can you imagine their cell phones hanging up on a potential shag? NOT a chance in hell. What a nutter. Mine would “leave his cell in his car”…except when he wanted to get laid. Then, it seemed his cell was always working and by his side.
Do AC’s have a special AC cell provider?
Runnergirl,
ha ha ha, my alcoholic`s AC`s mobile was always out of signal when he was drinking at his pub and I was at home/working ect. When I was out with my friends or in any possible proximity of any male I would get texts every 10 minutes on average. Yep, definitely special AC cell provider.
runnergirl:
Yes. It’s called Ass-Sprint. 😐
Like.
Brilliant post DC ~ you hit the nail on the head for me there, that’s exactly what my ex EUM/asshole wants ~ to behave really badly without taking any responsibility for his actions yet still get treated like a nice guy!!!! Well put, thank you
“to behave really badly without taking any responsibility for his actions yet still get treated like a nice guy”
That is SO true! They are really jerky guys to be so damn offended when you call them a jerk. Bless their little hearts….they just don’t get it.
Revs!
You SO read my mind! I, too, have learned that you CAN be gracious and not engage in a knock-down-drag-out type of ending when disengaging from someone who is disingenuous. With that said, I just got into a big yelling match over the phone with my ex-husband. We have been divorced eight years and he is complaining to me about how it’s my fault that he isn’t better off financially after all these years! When we were together, he ran up debts with his impulsive spending (which consisted of him making major purchases without consulting me first) and expected me to bail him out. Sometimes I did, but that got old after awhile. He felt and said that it did not matter how much debt he ran up, as his wife, it was my job to bail him out. Now if that isn’t some fraggle daggle bullsh*t, then I don’t know what is!! Unless I sm fortunate to find a good man like Nat’s hubby, I will be totally content to live a happy and peaceful single life.
If it makes you feel any better Gina, my ex husband bought a new CAR without consulting me. A car we couldn’t afford, on a loan we couldn’t afford the repayments on. Guess who (with 2 kids under 5) had to increase her working hours to pay for it? GRRRR!!! And yes, post divorce his debts are ALL MY FAULT.
Gina, Victorious,
Okay. I’m fighting the urge to try and understand, with logic, both of your ex-ACs. It’s like asking why a rabid dog is rabid. He just is. And he needs to be put down.
Sorry for what you’re both going through. I’m just speechless that this type of assholery exists and seems to run rampant. I’m going to make an appointment after work to get sterilized.
It’s amazing to me how I can spot bullshit a mile away in my professional work, but I seem clueless in my romantic relationships. I’m a social services coordinator, and I often deal with downright con-artists who are trying to fleece money from our nonprofit agency. After a few questions and a couple of minutes, I can tell if someone if full of it. But I suppose most of us can. After quite a few years of this job, though, I have become very adept at recognizing bullshit and relying upon my “spidy” senses. It’s amazing how the truth comes out—very quickly in fact—with just a few simple questions.
Today in particular was a doozie. An individual told me she needed assistance because she had been out of work for two months last year due to poor health. Do you have documentation? Er, well, actually I was compensated for that time. Then the individual accused ME of making it sound like she was lying. I never once bought her bullshit. And it certainly had nothing to do with me twisting her words or *making* her sound anything. We both know what she was trying to do.
Somehow, when my libido and emotions are involved, all of this training goes out the window. I guess the encouraging thing is (or the idea that I’m trying to hold onto is) that I DO know how to identify bullshit. I just need to learn how to translate that insight to my romantic relationships.
MissDelray,
So glad you were able to see through this crackerjack’s status. I once did an ‘art internship’ for a world renound artist. I was no more than an endentured servant. This artist was nothing short of a nut. Naturally the whole ‘opportunity’ had been masterminded and pushed on me by my narcissistic father who commissions this artist to paint gigantic self portraits (because who doesn’t need larger than life wall size paintings of themselves). Anyway, life taught me a very important lesson: it doesn’t matter what status someone has, you must see for yourself and make your own judgments and base your actions from that. And what Buddhist master forces google calendar on people?! Oh, what silly, nutty boundary busting!
And thank you Natalie for introducing me to the word crackerjack.
“And what Buddhist master forces google calendar on people?!”
Ah, Jennifer Tiffany. Apparently you’re not aware of the 501st tool of the Buddha: Google Calendar. 😉
Truer than true.
When an assclown indicates his recent behaviour towards you (“Yadda yadda when I didn’t turn up, yadda yadda didn’t return any of your calls, yadda yadda went away without telling you, yadda yadda moved in with this other girl I just met, yadda yadda…”) and then commences the phrase “…because I…” or “…because you…”, stand well back. There’s toxic waste coming out of his mouth. You just need to close your ears, turn your back and walk away. Nothing of value, nothing edifying, nothing worthwhile, and in fact some things of real harm to your feelings and your identity as a real person, will be transmitted by Radio Assclown in the interlude that follows.
The only reason the assclown attempts this is what the professional PR communications folk call Reputational Management. Rather than improving his behaviour, he just tries to sanitize the scenes of his crimes. Tries to convince you that his crimes weren’t so bad after all. Tries to get you to agree that, hey, the whole situation was just kinda mad and crazy, wasn’t it. Wasn’t it? And then, once the crimes are managed down to a reduced size, he points out that you too had a part to play in ‘what happened’.
Yeah, neat trick isn’t it. When YOU do something, ‘you did it’. When HE does something, it’s ‘what happened’.
These guys who behave in unconscionable ways paradoxically have a desperate need to be right all the time. They think ‘informing you of their reasons why what happened, happened’ (read: ‘making flimsy excuse salad for all the heinous behaviour out of words and phrases they once heard on an old weekday afternoon Oprah repeat… or just baldface lying’) makes them right. Er, no it doesn’t. When you take a math exam, you don’t get an A for just drawing little smiley faces in each of the answer boxes. That’s not an answer, least of all a right one. That doesn’t count for anything. Doesn’t mean anything. Doesn’t prove you know what the hell you’re talking about or that you even understand WHAT a math exam IS.
The behaviour itself speaks loudly and clearly to you as you perceive it. Unless he’s Martin Scorsese, he’s just not special enough to be given a unique opportunity to do a Director’s Voiceover Version of the DVD of your relationship, where he gets to talk over the action and dialogue and interpret every action and every nuance that he intended for his audience (you). Because that’s just selfish. And manipulative. And bullshit.
“When YOU do something, ‘you did it’. When HE does something, it’s ‘what happened’.”
Nail, meet head. What are these fuckwits, flesh marionettes controlled by some omnipotent giant assclown in the clouds?
Love your work Griz.
Said by Grizelda: “When YOU do something, ‘you did it’. When HE does something, it’s ‘what happened’.”
That’s a great way to put it. Everything is always beyond their locus of control when they screw up. But everyone else? Nope… it’s a character flaw of sorts when everyone else screws, no excuses or explanations allowed. Yet they take zero responsibility for their own screwy actions. How hypocritical & dishonest.
Thanks for the extra food for thought. Forward, onward, and upward.
Victorious,
I can identify!! I have been mocked, made fun of, ridiculed, and called needy by my family for having boundaries. I was told by an intrusive and incredibly toxic family member that I was “weird” for keeping my door locked to my bedroom. She was just miffed because she couldn’t get her mitts through my things. Which is EXACTLY why I needed the lock. Family can be such a pain in the ass. I am on constant defense from my family’s boundary busting. They are CRAZY. Not me. Time to do some healthy distancing.BTW, toxic people/family hate it when you get healthy. It casts a light on their crap behavior that makes them very uncomfortable. Stay strong and keep setting those boundaries.
Selkie – I appreciate your response, but as I said in my comments, he told me that wife had asked him for a divorce and they were on the way to that when I started seeing him. Was it true -who knows now? Was it right? Now I know differently obviously – but in the meantime, they are very successful in getting you to fall in love with them and its very hard to see what is going on around you (especially when they live in different state). I believed everything he told me – was it stupid on my part – yes it was, as I have learned (the very hard way). So I really wasnt looking for someone to tell me how dumb I was – because believe me, I already know.
I don’t think Selkie or anyone else here wanted to say you were stupid.
Just one more thing to point out- even if a guy really is on his way of divorce (not divorced yet, and not the one asking for it) he is still an EUM, cause he doesn’t have all this marriage thing solved and just needs someone to boost his ego.I have a friend to whom I’m very atracted to, we also share the same values and he is oviously attracted to me, but he just got divorced (his wife asked for divorce, cause she fell for another man, he is not an AC or anything) and I know I won’t even think of having something with him until he gets over the divorce.
Sorry that you fell for such guy, really. I know how lonely it gets sometimes and how we actually want to believe everything those guys tell. But you are worth more than just being someones means for making his life easier/more fun/whatever.
If it’s any consolation ‘Finally’, the line I got was ‘a year ago he and his wife decided to call it quits, they were just waiting on a court case for her son to be over so they could keep a front of a stable family for the courts’. AND I FELL FOR IT! Gawd, it was my first brush with a MM, and it brought me here, only to find out how stereotypical the whole shenanigans were. He had plausible excuses, HIS boundaries firmly in place, flattered my knickers off, fast forwarded, future faked, busted boundaries all over the place. The red flags, even cracks sometimes appeared in the beautiful facade he created for me, BUT I overlooked it all, because I wanted to believe. I fell to earth and wound up here with a bump. But (don’t tell him, I wouldn’t want his ego to get an unintended fluff) I am actually at this point feeling glad that it all happened. As painful as it was, it was what I needed (a kick up the duff) to start learning to believe in myself, seek help, and get on with what I have been neglecting in and for myself. A more hopeful future lies ahead, that experience brought me here to rip off my blinders and have to come to grips with myself….
Finally Awake,
I wasn’t calling you stupid, nor do I think that. I’ve believed lies, got jerked around, and had my heart ripped out too, when I should of known better, when I did know better, when red flags were all up on my face. Thats why I found BR too. I don’t look down on you. My point, and no it wasn’t sugar coated, you did have a choice in this. You participated even when you heard the words ‘my wife’. He may have led you on, lied, pulled fast ones on you, hurt you, played hot and cold but figuring out why he did this is less important than why you got involved and stayed involved with a man who stayed married for three more years. What I was suggesting is that boundaries get blurred when we focus on how many other women they may be communicating with, checking up on them, or how they blow hot and cold, etc. when the top line data is…..he was married when you met him. Many women say, he promised to leave his wife, his wife is asking for a divorce, he wanted to be there for his sick wife or the kids, whatever justification for not really being with you going on three years. What is the common denominator there? The word wife. It gets lost in translation though once we are waist deep in pig shit. Does it suck, hell yeah. I’m sorry if what I said offended you, it really wasn’t intended to. It was blunt, but blunt worked for me when I came here to BR. It made me look at the root of things, not the side effects. Four days of NC is a good start, stay strong. Don’t listen to his crap about invading his privacy. He’s a liar….thats the recurring top line data here. You deserve a better man than one who strings you along for three years then need space once he’s free (by default of his wife dying).
It’s late, cold and I am struggling to sleep.
Thank you for the peace and acceptance here. For the women who “talk” and support but importantly a big thank you to the facilitator – Nat
You have truly enabled people to think and find solace here.
I feel rubbish and coming here to understand helps so much.
I struggle as I always seem to judge me and my life or acceptance based on track record.
It hurts to identify that I do not have a single successful relationship.
My father didn’t want me as a baby because I was a girl, later on in life he said I would only be good enough to be a whore.
My brother repeating history near his wife badly so she left him, he blamed me for the breakup saying I told her it was ok.
My marriage to a man who is like my brother resulted in 9 years of no sex, we never consummated the marriage.
At religious school I was molested, at home I was beaten by a grandfather who thought I was a burden and an uncle who despised me.
This all culminates in me meeting a guy during my separation that I think is God sent. He is kind, gentle, loving, sexy and funny and wait for it he actually noticed me!
Then comes the great romance, then the cracks. I can’t even type it now my heart is in pain.
I got dumped…4 months ago.
I am a good person, I am helpful and kind.
How is it that I have not one successful relationship with a man.
It hurts, is so ouch.
I tried to get over the assclown by beginning to talk to this charming cure friend of a friend.
We were really liking flirting.
Suddenly he messages that he has met a girl he works with and hopes it all works out.
Lucky girl.
Again jealousy sets in, the blond beautiful girl trumps.
I cannot explain how I despise my colour, race and religion right now.
How I wish I had been born white. Perhaps then I would have had more luck.
On both occasions I was naive to think a guy would want me when we had so many obstacles.
I feel hopeless, utter totally freakish.
I also feel stupid and despite most guys I’ve liked rejecting me I still them to validate their rejection if that makes sense…
I wonder when I will get some peace…
Naz
Helpful + kind + no boundaries = sitting target
If you feel bad about yourself, no man can make you feel better. Likely, they will only make it worse (see formula above).
I used to wish I’d been born white too. I’m chinese and my boyfriend is black. People who aren’t white have relationships all the time.
I’m a born again christian, which some people would see as freakish. But so is my boyfriend so we are freaks together.
The problem is how you see yourself. You can get help for that.
I understand that it’s not fair that you have to build up your own self estem when others tore it down. But there is no alternative and it really is worth it. It’s not about getting a good man at the end of it (though I expect you will), it’s the happiness of being acceptable to yourself. And screw what everyone else things to be honest. But I think you will find that all your friendships and relationships will improve when you feel better.
It is entirely possible.
Naz
I am blonde, as it happens, and I can promise you it has not saved me fro
unhappiness.
I understand how you feel and have often beat myself up for not being taller, slimmer, younger, prettier, or higher
achieving. Really though the problems I have has have been having poor self esteem such that I made bad choices. Everyone whoever they are experiences the pain of rejection sometimes but those with good self esteem, I think, get over it quicker.
Marilyn Monroe was the most beautiful blonde ever and she ended up used and abused by a series of ACs, dead in her 30s.
Also if it was just that you were unattractive, why did he pursue you in the first place? Would you pursue someone you found unattractive? You are attractive but unfortunately the person you attracted was an AC and a liar.
I hope you can manage to get some counselling, because you have been badly
treated, and it’s difficult to get over that and not internalize it.
Naz,
(((Hugs)))
Listen, I’m “mixed” race, not completely white. I get guys hitting on me all the time. I’ve been told by MANY people (not to be a bitch, either, because I don’t see it) that I look like Kim Kardashian (hopefully the less trashy version). In fact, not to put too fine a point on it, my whole life I’ve had MOST guys gawk at me when I enter a room.
And guess what that’s gotten me? Not a damn thing.
Let me repeat: Not. one. healthy. romantic. relationship.
I’ve endured the same shame, the same heartbreak, the same bad characters in men. My “looks” didn’t save me. My good, non-deceitful heart didn’t save me.
Read Grace’s formula, because it’s breathtakingly true in it’s simplicity. It really does start with loving yourself. I used to think that was some Dr. Phil bullshit, or true only in theory; A nice phrase to bolster your best friend with when that douche dumped her. But it’s true in the most complete sense.
Naz, You didn’t deserve ANY of the horrendous things you went through. But your life CAN be different. And it doesn’t require you changing anything about yourself except for your negative self-image. Don’t feel bad; most of us have to work on that too. So you’re not alone. 🙂
Keep talking to us–we’re listening.
Naz I am a blonde haired blue eyed girl. Five foot five. Weigh 130lbs, a large proportion of which is my *real* G Cup boobs. I am well educated and financially sound. I can cook. I can sing. People mostly seem to like me. I have been shat on by men my whole life because I had no boundaries and piss poor self esteem.
Please don’t deny yourself. Your uniqueness. Your individuality. Your SPECIALNESS. I bet you are great just the way you are.
Naz
I´m white with gypsy-like features (a mix of races) and I´ve always felt it was my fault I was treated badly by men because I certainly had to be ugly if I guys did that to me?
I spent many sad hours wondering why I had turned out so badly if my younger cousins were all caucasian blue-eyed blondes or redheads.
Until I noticed that men didn´t care about things like that. Some were attracted to me for reasons completely mysterious to me, and weren´t much impressed by girls I would´ve died to look like.
The problem was that I didn´t much know what to look for with men so I chose them for things I felt I lacked myself – like a large ego, mostly. So this got me into a vicious circle where I would ultimately end up feeling ugly and worthless because I was with someone who I thought was better than me.
Please keep on reading all these posts and comments, Naz! You can change your relationships but it has to start with the relationship you have with yourself. Then, learn to separate those relatives´dodgy behaviour from your worth, and get angry. They have no right to have treated you like that.
In time, you´ll learn to feel good about yourself.
Naz,
believe me, skin colour has nothing to do with having healthy relationships, so don’t question if you are worthy to have one! I’m white as snow, still with a long long history of EUMs and ACs:)
Great post. Thank you Natalie!
“Accepting bullshit excuses that put the blame on you for the wrongdoings of others to justify their even more bullshit behaviour is to suggest that you believe that other people’s shady and even assholic behaviour is ‘acceptable’ or at least justifiable if it’s ‘provoked’ by a person’s worth or some sort of failure on their part.
That’s bullshit.
Would you treat someone without love, care, trust, and respect and then blame them for it and even throw them a BS excuse to justify your actions? If you wouldn’t, don’t BS yourself any further by going against your own values and buying into someone else’s dodgy reasoning.”
I went through what I refer to as my “dark night of the soul” and basically had a nervous breakdown and was also unemployed. I turned into someone I barely recognized and so excused his escalating assholery as a consequence of my “issues.”
Intellectually I knew/know that going through a horrendously difficult time as I was is not the same as being a cruel deceitful, disrespectful, devaluing assclown but I still felt there was a cause and effect dynamic. Err, no. He had the choice to say it wasn’t working for him anymore but instead chose to keep me around for his convenience while consciously punishing me for disappointing him and for acting out because of his “unresolved anger.” He said this anger was the reason for his behavior when I told him he was “treating me like something he scraped off his shoe” when we had lunch after one of my early NC attempts before the one that stuck. The fact that he acknowledged he knew what he was doing and I re-engaged yet again boggles my mind still… I remember that I was actually relieved there was an explanation for his outrageous behavior that made sense to me. Ugh! This whole subject is among the last pieces of the experience I’m working through so this was very timely and appreciated.
I believe my x wife has BPD. After 16 years married and last few years journaling this was my conclusion. I went numb half way through the marriage and just took it like a doormat – yes even physical abuse. I almost lost myself and i was physically shutting down not able to perform at my job because most of her rages would happen at night while i was sleeping she would wake me up and the crazy making would last all night. if not at night then behind closed doors, intentionally so no one could see/hear (except my son).
Worst part was the constant projection and being blamed for everything she did. She would break things and yell “you see what you made me do!”
Once my son was old enough, i left. divorce is final now and i have primary custody, but she is manipulating him lately for the holidays. He’ll be 18 soon and off to college this fall and he can’t wait.
Worst part is we tried to reconcile recently (I was giving her sex), and it was futile and have stopped all interaction with her for past few weeks so far. I can’t do NC, so i do low contact instead – mostly email.
Dating new women has been a total disaster because i am EUM – so I’m trying to slow that down and eventually stop. I’ve pulled some wacky stunts and thought i was a player..NOT, im just embarrassed now.
Roberto,
I remember your initial post, as it had quite a response.
It sounds like you have been through a great deal with this horrendous marriage. Have you considered getting some sort of abuse counseling, for the benefit of you and your kids?
Happy to hear that you recognize what fools the playas are. Have you considered not dating, so that you can get to a healthy place? It’s not fair to drag others into the dysfunction, as it is very painful to be involved with an EUM.
Thanks for the post Natalie. Love it and it makes me want to share. My ex used to tell me that I was selfish and lazy. I wasn’t and and am not (not any more than any other person anyway), but for the first 6 months of marriage i considered his points as possibly valid. The turning point for me came when i realized that it didn’t matter how “perfect” i was or strived to be – he would still find a flaw. i used to say that i could be Marilyn Monroe, Martha Stewart and Mother Theresa all rolled into one … and it didn’t matter. He had to put me down. If i defended myself in any way i was called “lazy and selfish” and various other niceties. Once i realized how completely irrational he was i freed myself from blame and from his manipulation. He became so frustrated when his psychological tricks didn’t work anymore. i tried to reason with him and explain to him what he was doing – that he had a need for an emotional punching bag and that he was taking things out on me … blaming me in absurd ways. suffice it to say – we are no longer married. he started to become physically out of control when i “defied” him. yes … he used to tell me that i was defying him !! i lived through the nightmare and came out on the other side with my sanity. But it’s so emotionally draining to be told who you are, what you’re feeling, and who you should be … and how disappointing you are when you’re not living up to their expectations. I feel fortunate that i saw through his BS and was able to get away.
Thank you lady’s!! I am really struggeling with this decision if i want to give her another chance. She wants me back but this was not the first thing that hurt me, there was braais with her family that i just have to accept not going to because her family will never know about her being gay either..she is a flirt but i asked her to please stop because this is one of my core values and she said she would, but didnt. i trusted her do be loyal to me and in my eyes she wasnt, she says everybody does it and it is just silly games this is who she is..everybody makes mistakes. yes i agree everyone makes mistakes but she knew how i felt about flirting and i know the diffrence between inocent flirting and trouble seeking flirting so do i forgive her and take another chance on my terms? i dont know if she will make an effort and for how long because she told me she will just tell her next girlfriend that she does flirt and hopes the next girl will accept that about her..i know flirt and deneying you are in a relationship is a fatal combination but she looks sorry and regretfull.
they say everybody deserve a second chance, is this stuff a deal breaker for a second chance guys?? we lived together for about 8 months, i moved out and she is willing to have this relationship with us not seeing each other in the week but only weekends beacause she also have a son of 16 years old and he also made this difficult to work out. so i must be prepared to live apart for about 6 years till we will have a chance again to begin with our life’s together, sounds convienient to me..doesnt it? im 34 and she is 45..
Whaaaat? You’ll have to wait for 6 years? And wait for what? She already tells you about what she would tell to her *next* girlfriend!!! Do you really need any more evidence you are willing to wait for a person that doesn’t really want to be with you?
rita,
you won`t be happy until you live authentically. That won`t happen with a partner who does not respect you and your boundaries and is not authentic herself.She won`t admit to her family that she is gay ? At 45? Once, I had to hide in an actual closet for several hours because an AC needed to hide me from his family and friends. Don`t do it!! And she is the type of a flirt that is one teeny tiny step away from a player. She has not made a mistake, this is how she authentically is. If you let her back in it will equal trampsing all over your own boundaries and its a slippery, denial filled slope from there. The waiting….Lau-ra said it.She sounds very NOT special!
This who she is, she will not change!
It sounds like you are making a lot of excuses and sacrifices for this woman. What do you get?
If you are openly out, and she is not, this can not work.
Rita, it sounds like she gets a lot of benefit, and you do not. You’re not on the same page. I say move on, or you will be forever disappointed, with the separation issue – which is ridiculous – and her constant attention seeking – due to her own insecurities, which can definitely lead to cheating. She is a big drama maker!
Rita, this woman knows that her flirting bothers you — and yet she continues to do it! Someone who truly cared about you would not continue to behave in a way that she knows is hurtful to you. She looks sorry and regretful? Just an act. If she were really sorry about hurting you — then she’d stop hurting you.
She has nothing to offer you but melodrama, manipulation, selfishness, and mindfucking. You deserve better.
@fallback no more
Story of my life!! OMG, the Martha Stewart-Marilyn Monroe-Mother Theresa combo was so me juggling all his “criteria”. X’s wife does this, and Y’s wife does that. Oh, they’re so perfect!
The difference is that we’re just separated now, under one roof until I can find a place to move out. We have 2 boys and he uses the same techniques with them, especially the elder; 11 who has one of the most responsible and sensitive characters of his age. Seeing the ex doing to our children so maliciously what he did to me is another heartbreak… The labeling, controlling and mind games are horrific. The kids love him, because he plays with them. But like what he did to me; act all nice and sweet when he feels like it, then all of a sudden, you don’t know what hit you, he does the same with the boys. I always felt like I was standing blindfolded and earplugged on a train track. Unkept promises are countless, to me and to them.
It was like Grizelda said, “When YOU do something, ‘you did it’. When HE does something, it’s ‘what happened’.” Spot on!!!
After our separation, I had serious chest pains at 1am one night, they scared me. He took me to the ER, I was told there that sometimes severe stress can cause heart attack-like symptoms, but my heart was Ok. When we got home, he insinuated that now that “he’s a knight in shining armour”, he deserves some “reward”, and of course what’s a better reward to a separated man than a shag?!! I felt I owed him, then later cried in the bathroom for hours because I had lost my self-respect. I felt like a wh*** except that I was paid in terms of a hospital visit. WTF!!! That was the last time I allowed him to do me any “favours” or even to touch me for all it matters.
Now, he hears my credit card statement is escalating because I study postgrad and pay my fees by credit card. He gave me half of what I owed the bank and said he will give me the rest in a few days so that I can pay him back in installments with no interest. I was shocked tbh, but tempted to accept the offer, yet scared like hell that he’d act like I owe him something. It has always been how he manipulated me; to help in the kitchen ONCE, bring me some cheap perfume on no occasion or be generous enough to not complain about returning back 2am and finding me sleeping and not waiting for him… all one-time incidents just to add to the “I’m a perfect husband” list which he’d be preparing to use against me on our next argument to show me how great he is and how ungrateful, lazy, unwise and unloving I am. Lately, he’s been using same futile “proofs” also in front of people; mostly family members to win them on his side. I had to bring out some ugly truths about him I was hiding like when he broke my nose or raped me after we agreed we’re separated and it was totally without my consent that I ended up with some bruises. Now, no one even wants to listen to him.
Wow MSA! sounds like you’ve been through a whole lot of crazy! Yes – you never know when the other shoe is going to drop! Nice one minute and monstrous the next with no warning. it’s like they flip a switch. I know that you know this – but i’m just going to tell you anyway: It has absolutely nothing to do with you. You and the boys are just convenient targets for his illness to manifest itself. I hope that you can keep your sanity until you can move out and find some peace. You deserve some peace sister! And honestly it doesn’t sound very safe to be living with a man whose sense of entitlement includes violence. I don’t know if you are a spiritual person MSA , but i am praying for you and your boys. I’ve been where you are (minus the children) and i know how strong a person you must be to endure this type of situation. I sincerely wish for you the very best.
MSA, rape, a broken nose, and bruises are SERIOUS. What your sons see and know is more than you think. It’s not just that he plays with them. There is help out there. Please avail yourself. Do NOT listen to what he says. Feel what he does.
It’s time to run before it gets even worse. I’ve been there too and know how difficult it is. Broken thumb, raped, and black eyes. Dear god…it doesn’t matter what they say. Nobody deserves that. Can your family assist you?
OMG! Are there any friends or family you can stay with. If not, how about a shelter for abused women? This situation sounds frightening!
@fallback no more,
Yes, I’m spiritual. I do appreciate you praying for me. One more thing he does is wear the “Man of God” mask and preaches me on what a good wife should be (in his own twisted interpretation of the Bible course). I did stop listening to his BS and it’s eating him alive that he doesn’t have this power over me anymore.
@runnergirl,
It’s what I did… My mom was so angry that I’ve been hiding all this from her, which I did also under his influence. He’d always say we shouldn’t involve family as long as we can solve our own problems (aka as long as I can control you around and press the reset button and get your submission too). Funny thing is he was the one who availed himself first, putting on a victim’s mask until I exposed him.
@Allison,
I spend some time at my mom’s, I am planning to move out. The problem is, I live in a country where marital rape isn’t acknowledged as being a legal offense. “I can have you right now if I want to”, is what he said when I told him a couple of days later that was rape. The broken nose incident I also hid and told everyone I hit the night table while waking up in the middle of the night. I can’t deny I enabled him, I was brainwashed that he loved me and that “it was just a moment of anger”. Now, I see he loves no one but himself, and I even doubt that.
Thank you all for your support. Sometimes, one needs this to affirm a person is not crazy.
@fallback no more & runnergirl, I’m sorry to hear you had to go through similar situations as well. You don’t deserve this. No one should inflict their insecurities over another loving and caring person. This is pure evil. Hang in there! (((hugs))))
Oh MSA – I know all about the “man of the cloth” hypocrisy. My ex told me that i failed in my “marital obligations” and that i’d have to answer to God. I’m glad that you stopped listening to his BS – just be careful. As you know – this can enrage them when they feel they are losing control. I walked a fine line between being true to myself and avoiding his rage. I clung to my belief in God during my ordeal and it helped me to endure it till i was able to get out. I didn’t tell my family either because i felt ashamed and embarrassed. And like your situation – he tried to isolate me from friends and family. Just know that we are all here for you and supporting you.
And thanks for telling me to hang in there. I’ve been out of that situation for 7 years now. 🙂 Better to be alone than in bad company! I treasure my peace of mind.
Anyway – no – you are not crazy. You are just in a crazy-making situation.
Take Care MS ~
fallback no more,
I hear you loud and clear, every single word you’re saying 😀
Thanks for being here!
MSA; I believe the term for this is gaslighting, here you can see it more specifically;
@Anon,
OMG!! I can’t believe that. It’s like the writer watched one of the many situations I had to encounter with the psychopath of an ex I had. I know how the victim must have felt after she got home, crying her heart out, waiting for his return to apologize for whatever she didn’t even do. My stomach is turning as I write this as it brings back so much painful memories of being lost and just wishing for things to be set right and for knowing a way to please the man I thought was the love of my life. So much BS they spit out I hope they all choke on it.
Thanks for the clarity I get more and more everyday as I read what each and every BR’er has to say. You, ladies, are a blessing!
@ LAU_RA
well i am not willing to move back in while her son is still in the house, and i take it it will take him about 3years to move out of the house when he makes matric so im working it out for about 6 years..if i want to give us a second chance then this is what i have to consider and shes prepared to do it like this. i dont know, its like a demontion now from what we where aint it? Laura i am a people pleaser and also over sensitive so i dont know when i am being too sensitive thats the problem, she sees nothing wrong with it and also i have to understand that she is in the closet with her parents that is al good but with some friends she can also not be open with because she is afraid they will reject her which i can also understand but where do i draw the line. im not a child anymore and as much as i want to understand i can not see how she can choose friends opinions above her own hapiness. i cant pretend infront of people i feel like scum when she reacts diffrently with me infront of these friends, but she wont budge and i cant either..but the love is there…and she also said she hopes i will get someone that can understand my sensitivety because i am not an easy person.. so now i worry that maybe i will loose the one person that is willing to love me with my sensitivety problem..
@rita
I’m sorry, but I see manipulation there. She made you believe you’re not an easy person, now is the time for Nat’s title to blink repeatedly “Just Because Someone Says Something, It Doesn’t Make It So (Don’t let them use BS to blame you)”. What’s not easy about wanting to be happy “out of” the closet? She’s the one who’s not easy. She knows no one else will buy her BS or agree to have a secret relationship, while she also flirts around. You say she can only see you on weekends, I see a carpet of red flags because knowing she’s flirty and announces being single and still IN the closet… BIG RED FLAGS waving around! She could be bi for all you know and having both sides of the fun. I’m assuming she flirts with guys?? because you said she’s still keeping her sexual orientation a secret.
She knows you’re a people pleaser and is using this for her own agenda. My ex-husband made me believe I were oversensitive for standing my ground in certain situations, as if nothing he did deserved objection from my side. Don’t let her eff up your mind. I believe what you’re asking is quite legit and the basics of any healthy relationship: in the open, no flirting and both wanting the same thing. You’re NOT oversensitive. In fact, she’s overdemanding and wants a relation in her own terms and conditions. If you sign up for that, then you agree to what makes you feel less than what you’re truly worth.
Telling her next gf that she’s flirty doesn’t sound regretful to me either. It basically means she WILL NOT stop her flirting and she’s already preparing for the “next” one??!!! FFS, she knows she has massive red flags and no next one will accept those. Why should you?
I know how hard it is to walk out on love. Trust me, I’m still entangled in a web all in the name of “love”, but it’s why we’re here, to give each other the strength that we’re seeking. I read Nat’s articles and BR’ers comments daily to try and find the strength I need to see things for what they are, not for what I want them to be. You need to read some previous articles too, about red flags, blame and pain in relationships (or relationshits as per BR terminology). See the related posts above, you’ll find them quite helpful. Best of luck! I wish you the happiness that you deserve ((((hugs))))
Rita,
Please don’t be a doormat!
She is not treating you in a loving manner, nor is she respecting you. It’s all on her terms. You may love her, but you have to love yourself more.
Rita,
One more thing. If you really wanted a relationship you would not be seeking it with this person. She flirts openly with others (disrespectful), only sees you on her terms, and hides you from her life.
Think about it, if you were open to a healthy, respectful relationship this would be your last choice as a partner. Deep down, you know nothing will change – we should never expect someone to change – and she has told you she will not make changes for you. I think you need to address why the prospect of engaging with this person can possibly lead to any type of future.
Rita, I’m gay too. This woman doesn’t sound like a keeper. She’s not treating you right. She’s got some internalized homophobia going on, and you don’t want that nasty stuff to leak all over you. She sounds like she needs a lot of ego valadation, and that she likes making you feel insecure.
It’s so hard to find a good girlfriend! I understand how hard it is especially if you don’t live in a real gay area, they seem far and few between. But she’s the type who will suck you dry and it doesn’t even sound like she’s giving you any crumbs.
This is a great site, so keep reading some of Natalie’s previous articles, and soon it will become clear what you need to do.
Best of Luck!
Are all of you from overseas? i just love technology heheee!
You don’t have a sensitivity problem, thats just her gaslighting that makes you think like that! Jeeez, I even got angry reading all that stuff how she says you are so sensitive:( I just can’t believe how we actually believe all that BS we are told by the ones we care about…Quite an illustration how people are become “psycho g/fs//b/fs” – when people tell me about their “crazy/oversensitive/stalking/etc” exes, I always wonder if the blaming party adresses their behaviour in the situation? I’ve dated a major AC who would say I’m overreacting, cause I would get upset if he wouldn’t include me in his plans (he would say -I can’t meet you this week, cause I have very little spare time even for myself, BS BS BS, at the same time he would manage to find lots of time for other people), and would say it is the reason why he doesn’t want to see me that often.
And what exactly does she mean saying you are not an easy person? I guess her definition of easy includes no expectations, no nothing from your side, yet doing everything you can in her favour? Don’t you ever believe such BS, ever, cause it only serves her as a means of keeping you by her side (I bet you had a thought someone else would not accept you with all this imaginery sensitivity problem?).
Read an amazing quote today which says “sometimes you just have to forget what you feel and remember what you need”. Rita, ask yourself, do you need all this (being a secret lover, being blamed to be over-sensitive,etc.)?
Hi Guys,
I wanted some advise on how to handle a difficult boss- I hae posted about this before as I did speak to a senior manager regarding her behaviour and we all sat down in a room where she pretty much ripped me apart but things have got better – they are ‘manageable’ but to be honest there are still days where I have no clue how to deal with her boundary busting behaviour – my boss essentially suffers from a lack of personal responsibility – nothing is ever her fault – this week she had a dental appointment with some pretty painful treatment involved – she came into work in a foul mood inflicting it on everyone else by micro-mananging us and being very snappy – it makes me angry and feel very tense and anxious when it is like this – but how does one deal with it so it doesn’t affect your mood?
Marie83,
I wish I could help. I just had a breakdown partly because of my boss who does the same like yours. She calls and txts at any time. Just today, I also heard she’s been spreading rumours on how badly I perform, although my previous boss would always evaluate my yearly performance as ‘exceeding expectations’. Now, I discover that everyone in the department thinks I am not efficient enough, that I study during working hours, which I DO NOT DO. She’s studying the same degree I’m studying for, I am assuming she feels threatened which is ridiculous as I’d never compete with her experience. It’s fking annoying and stressing me out. Other bosses tell me not to give her a chance to see any flaw, but how can I? No one is perfect and if she wants, she’s bound to see a flaw or two and make a biggie out of them. I hope someone out there can help us, Marie83… I am very frustrated and sometimes I feel like I just don’t want to do what she asks. When she’s away, work is much smoother and things get done way faster. She’s such a negative energy in the team.
I am very frustrated right now, I feel everything is falling apart, my finances, my relationships and now my career. Sorry for whining, just having a bad few days and I have to keep a smiley face so as not to depress my children. I feel like screaming and crying and pulling my hair out. URGH!!
“When she’s away, work is much smoother and things get done way faster. She’s such a negative energy in the team” MSA, do we work for the same woman?! This week my boss went to the dentist and was in a fair bit of pain when she returned – suddenly her toothache becomes my problem and she was just so awful all day. The problem is because I report to her, she doesn’t think that my opinions, feelings matter – in fact when I did complain to her superior manager about how she made me ‘feel’, her response was ‘well I don’t think that is valid’. I think I could handle it more if she was consistently rude, but it is like when she is in a good mood, it is jolly and jovial but when she is not it is just a bad place to be and I resent that – my last relationship was all on ‘his’ terms, I really don’t want my working realtionship to be either! I am past trying to going anything ‘formal’ as it seems that her managers are completely ok with brushing things under the carpet and it just makes it emotionally draining to have to discuss ‘problems’ with her and have her plow over me and make me feel dreadful – I want to develop techniques for myself where I simply don’t care if she is snappy and unreasonable, but not sure if this is possible
Back when my self-esteem was lower (and I still need to work on it) I would quickly latch on to whatever anyone thought of me or my actions. I was so ready to accept and BELIEVE their opinions as I didn’t have strong opinions of my own. I cared only about what OTHERS THOUGHT not what I thought. As part of my journey to loving me, I’ve surrounded myself with a number of friends who are healthy individuals. We genuinely respect each other and we’re there for each other with love, honesty and empathy. I’ve found that not only has my work on myself improved my outlook but being around healthy, positive , genuine people has reinforced my own opinion of myself. I’m far more interested in reaching out and placing myself in social situations whereas before I used to feel, “why bother. No one will miss me. I have nothing to contribute by my presence.” As I’m improving my self-esteem I question more what others think about me. Instead of blindly believing and feeling beaten down, I EVALUATE, what has been said. Sometimes, I agree and sometimes I don’t. And after I’m done, I don’t waver back and forth in my opinion. When you have little self-esteem and don’t love yourself you are putty in the hands of people with negative intentions toward you. You don’t believe in yourself, but you believe in them and their opinions about YOU. Now that I’ve come such a long way, I will not allow others to treat me “less than”. I will question their statements to me their excuses, their reasons and their agenda where I am concerned. This does not mean that I will be walking around overly suspicious, but I won’t be a sponge absorbing all the negative vibes without standing my ground and standing up for ME.
Naz
Never be ashamed of who you are. I’m triracial and have also been rejected for who I am or thought of as some sort of an exotic toy. My at work AC accused me of getting my job solely due to affirmative action (I did have to briefly break NC to set him straight). It’s about them, not us but unfortunately we do have a much harder road due to them. I also have a few friends/colleagues who admire what and who I am and I’d bet you do too.
“(I did have to briefly break NC to set him straight). ”
right on.
Sorry there are times to do contact and that was one of them. It does not matter what he thinks but venting on something so shitty to say as that, seems a really necessary thing imho.
Great post and perfectly timed for me. For some reason, I’ve been lamenting over my last “relationship” with a certified assclown. I started thinking, maybe I did do or say something to trigger his behavior, albeit shady. Then when I read…
“Do you believe that it’s someone’s fault if they’re beaten, raped, or cheated on?”, they’re horrified and immediately and emphatically say NO, so it’s time to ask ourselves why we think it’s OK to accept BS reasoning for boundary busting behaviour?
…it really struck a cord. Why should am I blaming myself? Is it easier than admitting that I just made a bad choice and my radar didn’t go off? Is it easier than letting go of the delusion that this man was just not who presented himself to be? Is it because I can’t take another strike on my record?
Still a work in progress, but the beauty is that I can see that BS is BS no matter how pretty you dress it up.
@ All of you,
Thank you so much for your advice, i needed to hear it from outsiders and i am going to copy every comment and keep it and read it over and over if i want to consider going back.
i must make peace with this. she is not a bad person just not my match hey! Pinkpanter yes it is hard to find someone aspecially in my small city i think thats why i want to hold on, but i must also look after myself dont always know where to draw the line looks like it!! urgggh!!!
i will keep on reading Nat’s advice, i am already feeling a bit better today.. thank you all!!
I live in a gay mecca, and I see a whole lot of women who don’t value each other enough, instead using each other for sex, ego, etc. I sometimes think that in a smaller city the gays would understand how rare and valuable each of us are, therefor treat each other like gold. Your woman doesn’t sound like she understands your worth, she’ll use you up if you let her.
Here’s my coming out story for you:
I was 22 my new GF and I were in the bank. She reached over to hold my hand and I flinched away. She said “either you’re with me or you’re not, decide”. So I took her hand, and she pulled me out of the closet right there in the Bank of America!
Being out is essential to loving yourself
Sweet story pinkpather. “…right there in the Bank of America”…I can’t think of a better place! Good for you girl. It’s about being authentic no matter where it happens.
miskwa, bear scared guy was an effwit. glad you dumped his ass. well done saving yrself & yr dog frm the bears!
otherwise, I dumped the guy I dated b4 deceased AC, for lies not adding up on his whereabouts related to a very simple date proposal (this was the 36 yo mummy’s boy – had never moved out of home. I.e wtf?) Lies over dumb stuff suggested more lies to follow over big stuff. Ta ta!
Then there was deceased AC (1st anniversay of death a few days ago). He was a master of all Nat speaks of in this post. The long periods of NC initiated by me throughout were b.c I could see the BS for what it was & put it right bk where it belonged – on him. He didn’t like that too much. Hence I was labelled ‘diffilcult’ blah blah (Err no, I just call an emotionally abusive, lying, cheating, user what he is – an emotionally abusive, lying, cheating, user!)
Although it’s been over 2 yrs now of NC, he then died, & I ended up so ill (for other reasons) I still may lose my house. Two words. Never again.
Crawls back to bed.
Rita. Not sure what country you’re in, or city (& ppl often prefer not to say, which is ok), but in my country/city we have specialised domestic violence workers who deal with DV for same sex female couples. If you haven’t already, I suggest you do a little checking in your area & see what turns up. Start with mainstream DV services & take it from there. If there’s something like that in your area they will show you the way to access appropriate support services, such as counselling, for women in your position. Hang in there & please do not return to this person. Abuse from anyone, male or female, in relationships of any kind, is NEVER ok. You deserve to be safe & loved. Keep giving yourself these gifts. Big hugs. T x
Signed a ‘recovering lesbian’ (my private joke as this is such a complex issue for me) who is SO over men, I’ve been seriously wondering if I made a mistake when I decided 13 yrs ago, that I was straight after all! LOL (This I would add had something to do with dreams of a husband, baby & white picket fence. Oh how misguided I was; although I’m now remaining straight b.c it’s just bloody easier than going through that whole issue all over again!) Arghhh… And B4 anyone even THINKS it, NO I am NOT bi-sexual. I.e Far too wishy washy for me!
Dancing queen
Yep, one of my “must haves” is “will not wimpily run away leaving me to be eaten by bears”. Ironically, this douche had wrecked his knee due to monumentally stupid behavior in the backcountry. I kept fed in summers there by teaching primitive survival skills. This was the beginning of the end, complete NC started when I found a lump in my breast and he was not there for me at all. He had been emasculated for some time, one lesson I learned from him was to avoid men who have much less education than I because they will resent you eventually. This dude hated us that were at the university because we
made more money. At the time, he owned his home, car was paid for while I lived in a tiny cabin without plumbing or water and was lucky to make ends meet. Nothing like a crisis situation to make ones true character show itself.
Miskwa
I cannot believe that there are not many men around who would appreciate how adventurous you are. I know several men who enjoy the outdoors, running and hillwalking, who complain about how sedentary their wives are and wish they could get them out of the house to the mountains. And although I am nowhere near as active as yourself I do enjoy the outdoors and go Hillwalking, biking and camping when I can. (we dont have bears though thank goodness! LOL) Every man I have ever been out with enjoyed these things too and we did them together. My experience has been that many men LOVE an active woman who doesnt spend all her time shopping and preening and watching TV. What on earth is wrong with all
those American guys?
@ teachable
lol thanks for the laugh!! i am all the way from South-Africa just amazing how many people all over the world have some same situations and that we can all connect here and support each other, in fact its GREAT!!!
uuhmmm i also seriouslly considered taking a man because they are not so complexed but just the thought of it makes me feel not lekkerrr!!! Yes woman is sooooooo complicated but men naaaaahhh there’s just not that emotional connection and i am all about connection lol!! thanx for your advice and good luck with the straight path lol as long as you can say “i lived and it was good and i was happy” then do whats good for you!! Sorry for the spelling and tenses, I am afrikaans and also very blond with the internet cant find the spell check grrr!!
Keep well 🙂
I am convinced you have a hidden camera of my life. Your posts this week have been absolutely spot on to whats going on in my mind!!!
After two years he breaks it off, saying that ultimately it came down to me not being sweet enough. I’d say fair enough if it wasn’t for the fact that I LIVED for this guy and bent over backwards to show my love and commitment. Heck, I even move to a different country for him! His complaint was that through the times that he cheated on me, was dishonest about his relationships with certain women, was verbally agressive, etc I wouldn’t cut him any slack, and call him out on it and as a consequence not be sweet. Yeah well, no kidding. Regardless I have been tossing and turning thinking about all the times that I *was* sweet, the times I wasn’t, the times I could have been sweeter, the reasons why he’d say that and ultimately agreeing with him! Oh what a terrible person I am I shouldn’t have made that comment or I should have laughed at x joke.
Ultimately, if his biggest complaint after two years is that I wasn’t sweet “enough” I’d say that’s pretty good. My biggest complaint was that he was aggressive and unfaithful, but hey, who’s judging.
@ teachable
aaawe and i am tearing up now!!! i like your ex girlfriend heheee, she knew what she wanted and bugger the rest.
mmmm you see in small city’s evrybody also knows everybody and sleeps with everybody thats the problem.
i took her and her son, went through alot of s…. with her son swearing at me and she just stands there doing nothing!! i supported her more in this almost 2years then her ex husband has in the last 14 years(emotionally) got her through his brain operation, school stuff that she knew nothing about, made them lunch when she took him to hockey in the evenings..ag but she also helped me alot with stuff, we never fought during our time together which was new to me, we or i thought we respected each other (i didnt know about the deneying being in a relationship until a month ago so everything was good except for the flirting and chatting 24/7. Actually everything went wrong from the day i moved in with them, we dated for a year and we thought it was a good and practical idea but then her son got out of control not that we didnt respect him. we never touched, never kissed we did nothing infront of him and i think everything started to die right there..and ja she is asking for another chance but she is not even fighting for me! Ag i dont know she tells me she wont flirt anymore and what what but it’s to late!
you would think that someone will appreciate this qualities and values but still not even this was enough!!
Mymble
Most of those American guys are obese and can’t even walk up a set of stairs at this altitude let alone trudge thru the mountains. Unfortunately, the only guy living locally that I could trust to watch my back up here was the AC who is a skilled outdoorsman. Now I watch out for myself. Lots of guys come up on weekends but bring their sposes and family with or are with a group of friends. I have gotten into trouble due to others stupid actions, inability to remember routes, and excessive risk taking. I don’t mind bears: during that summer, my last in Montana, I saw 11 grizz; you gave to behave in the right way around them, be both humble and aware. That idiot I described was neither. The woods, serious wilderness is my healing and being there makes me feel alive, worthy, and whole. In my broken community, I only feel unwanted, despised, rejected. May be doing a trip out tonight, actually.
You mean pinkpanther Rita, not me. I told the last woman I was involved with (it was a holiday fling, & we were from different countries so knew our involvement had a built in expiry date) that I was not a lesbian BEFORE we became sexually intimate. In hindsight, I don’t think she believed me, as I was 30 at the time & had been involved with women since my teens. I decided I was in fact a lesbian at around 20. I came out to those who mattered & that was that. Then, a few years later, after a couple of failed lesbian relationships, I met my deceased ex AC who died 12 mths ago; the relationship which led me to BR. I’d been wondering at the time about what it would be like to have sex with a man again; a very odd thought for me at the time, as I was a dyke & happy enough with.my identity. I used to say at first to this guy, in what began as a casual involvement look, I’m actually a lesbian so don’t expect anything of me & he said, that was ok. Then after a while, lo & behold, I realised I’d fallen in love – WITH HIM. This was the biggest shock to me & I decided, well, obviously, I’m NOT a lesbian. That lasted 3 yrs & we went our seperate ways. I then was involved with another guy but nope, didn’t fall in love. So, ended that. Then, the woman I speak of, who decided she wanted to MARRY ME. I told her this was just not possible. She was travelling the world & originated from a war torn country. I don’t think she wanted to marry ME so much, & that more she hoped to get permanent residency in a less strife ridden country (mine wouldn’t meet the criteria though, as same sex marriage is not legal here). Anyway, after her (we remain distant friends), I thought, I am 30 now & must decide. Am I gay or straight? So I decided, I’d fallen in love with a man, so I must be straight. Shame he turned out to be an AC. He returned to blindside me a load of BS 17 yrs later. Then, he died, a year after I managed to get him out of my life, 12 mths ago. Talk about a headfuck. No wonder a part of me now wonders if I was wrong & might be gay after all. HE would be enough to make the POPE turn gay, (although of course in reality my preferences aren’t dictated by such silly
Otherwise just going back to an earlier comment. I live in a suburban area which is not gay identified, as some suburbs tend to be. I notice gay men & women out shopping (ie my ‘gaydar’ still works, lol), although most of the time, I don’t think they ‘pick up on’ me b.c I tend to blend in as just another straight person, given this is the life I have adopted. My point is that sexuality, for some people, is quite a complex journey, & you can’t pick non hetro peeps just by looking at them, so really you never can be sure how many live nearby. For eg I may live a straight life, but if I met the right woman for me, I’m starting to think, why care about gender? If it were possible to share a wonderful life with someone who was a great match for me & vice versa why not just do that & be happy? I doubt I’ll ever meet anyone of course, as I don’t identify as gay, so they won’t know to how or where to ‘find me’ (I sometimes disclose my gay past, if relevent, after a long enough period of time has passed for trust & respect to develop to new gay friends but not always). I’m not ready to date so it’s a moot point anyway (& when I do, I will probably stay straight now as I feel maybe that’s for the best) One ex who was violent toward me when I was just kid tried the ‘you lesbian bitch’ line or some such thing though. I laughed my head off. Was this supposed to be insult? Because I can assure you when I WAS actually gay I was very ‘out n proud’ (& I more just think still maybe I was mistaken in hindsight that’s all !)
Phew. I think I just ‘came out’ (in a fashion) on BR!!!
Miskwa, if we were both gay, I would ask you out on a date! This is a compliment (not a come on, it’s ok, I’m not gay, lol). Just sayin….IF though… LOL
The blokes don’t deserve you as you’re just TOO GOOD for them! LOL
Please continue emasculating whimps with no spines! You’re antics are hilarious! (But being abandoned when you had cancer is not..Very sorry to hear you went through this)…
PS If you are 50 ish yo, I have the perfect fella in mind for you. He actually meets ALL of yr criteria! 🙂
Ag sorry that comment was for you pinkpanther, hahaaa
Teach
I am 52. Tis funny, all the progressive stuff that goes on round here is all run by women. Not that this is a hotbed of progressivity but both political parties, all conservation /sustainability related stuff; the same bunch of us kicka$$ chicks run it all. Thanks, eh? Tell your dude I live at 10,500 feet and keep a few cats.
Miskwa. I don’t think he’d mind the mountains at all. In fact, he’d love that. He’s 60 ish (but looks younger as he takes good care of his health & always has) & has worked his entire career with at risk, vulnerable youth with challenging behaviours. He takes them on wilderness activites & trecks to help them learn about themselves & how to interact with each other. He’s an old work colleague from 20 years ago & we’ve stayed in touch. He enjoys hiking in the mountains for days at a time. I mean REALLY enjoys it. This is his passion. He’s a member of a bushwalking club & goes with ppl from there but also goes alone as he loves it so much. His dream is to find a woman who shares his passion for nature. He did marry at one stage but early on she stopped working & contributing financially to the relationship. (He has no kids, as neither did she. They married at an older stage of life). I asked him what went wrong, (he moved out & divorced a cpl of yrs bk now) & he mentioned that, & that she’d exaggerated her love of his passion for bushwalking, so he’d ended up going alone, while she stayed home, not working. He was working f/t & paying their mortgage on his own & eventually he couldn’t take anymore & decided to end it as it wasn’t the life he’d signed up for. She seemed to expect her to fully support her financially. He just couldn’t cope with that pressure. He’s a non smoker, very.honest, lots of integrity, well educated, & drinks only socially / not at lot. He’s also very fit for his age (it’s all that exercise), & financially responsible. He has a good r.ship with his parents & comes from a healthy family background. Seriously, if you were in my country, I’d introduce you!!
ps he’s also chivilrous & I can assure you, even if you can handle bears on your own, the GENTLEMAN him would NEVER let you.
@teachable
You are cracking me up woman! Let me know if are gay then we can do the ciber dating thing hahhaaa!!
Aww alas Rita. I’m currently impersonating a breeder (& am one, go figure!). lol. Doesn’t look like there will be anymore breeding for me though! Sigh! lol
PS More seriously Rita, I’d suggest not dating until you’ve had a decent break from the woman who has been abusing you. I do hope u can access some counselling too, if yr not already & DV specific counselling at that. It can take a while to heal from such an experience & the last thing you want is to end up in another abusive r.ship, due to not recognising the early warning signs of the one you’ve just been in. Hugs. T 😉
Teach
Does he want to immigrate to the states? Funny, my last attept at dating an uneducated local turned out a lot like this dudes ex. He was semi retired but expected lil Miskwa to clean HIS house then would show up at mine and complain the cat boxes smelled, there was no fire in the stove, no food in the fridge, etc yet wouldn’t lift a finger to make anything better. We have all kinds of at rusk youth here in need of good mentoring.
@ teachable
i am not seeing anyone for thearapy or something, i can still handle this sort of! i was in a narsistic relationship before this one and believe me this is not a patch of what i went trough then. but what i cant handle is me making the same mistakes, i dated this last girl for a year how could i have missed this, maybe because i believe in only seeing the good, i dont know!!
i am trying to figure out why i make the wrong choices when it comes to choosing partners!!! i am on the internet every day, reading Nat’s advice but it is alot to take in and understand when i apply it to my situations!!
my ex shows no regret and it makes me sad!!! she goes on like nothing had happened, i tell her i want to delete her on fb and bbm she asks why because she still wants to be friends. she puts up profile pics saying” be thankfull for bad things in life, for they oppened your eyes to good things you werent paying attention to before”
i asked her what that meant and she said we have to be thankfull for bad things aspecially now a days with all the crime going on, what the hell she knows i am sensitive and she knows it would bother me, why put this up? and still she’s making apointments with me just after i told her i dont want her on my fb and bbm….
i want her as a friend,i dont even KNOW WHY because i feel sick when i think of how every thing just rolls off her shoulders and she is just going on..
she already told me that she is going to a wedding with an old flame at the end of the year, good for her and yes its long from now, but i hurt now and shes telling me this like a week ago why is she not thinking about my feelings when she tells me this stuff!!
I REALLY FEEL LIKE I CAN JUST TAKE HER HEART AND SWITCH IT WITH MINE, SO THAT SHE CAN FEEL AND SEE WHAT I FEEL AND SEE!!
NOT A GOOD DAY FOR ME!!