The tricky situation: Mani asks, I would really like your thoughts on the financial aspects in a relationship. Inadvertently I have experienced that a person with more financial strength has a upper hand in a relationship. My first ex’s behaviour became worse as he started earning more money. He became more controlling. Although I was earning more than him at one point, I had to give that up when our child arrived. This brought the worst in his behaviour over time.
The recent ex-boyfriend was very wealthy, although I did not know it when I met him and for the first couple of dates. We would take turns footing the bill when we used to go out. After sometime when we used to go out, he chose the best places, places which I could not afford to pay, which made me feel uncomfortable but at the time I felt that if he can afford to pay, then why not.
I’m wondering if financial equality is a must for a relationship to be successful and how to balance this considering that people’s finances can also change.
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One of the things that you need to acknowledge Mani, is that money and power in a relationship is a concern for you. That’s not to say that your first ex’s behaviour wasn’t inappropriate (more on him later) but what’s clear is that you see finances as a source of independence but also as a means of control. What I’m seeing here is your discomfort about money and it’s vital that you compassionately inquire into your money associations as well as your relationships ones because your romantic relationships are closely associated with loss of power and independence and a level of pressure to keep things ‘equal’ in order to feel that the relationship is ‘OK’.
Is it necessary for there to be parity of incomes between relationship partners in order for the relationship to be successful?
No, otherwise very few of us would be in a relationship and money would be the deciding factor for all relationships. Who do you know that has absolutely equal finances and how would each party go about ensuring that any gains made were equitable? That would be pretty tricky around promotions, bonuses, job and career changes, if everything hangs in the balance of who is earning what. Also–in a world where women typically earn at least 20% less than their male counterparts in the same role or where a period of time will be taken out of work by one or both partners if kids come into the equation, it would be foolhardy to base relationship success on the shifting sands of finances.
Many relationships thrive regardless of whether one earns more, none, or is super rich. When money issues reveal themselves in a relationship, it fundamentally comes down to values, so how responsible they are with it or how it is used within the relationship, as well as personal hangups with money.
Finances are a major trigger for people, both in and out of relationships, and it’s only when we become conscious of the origins of money beliefs and behaviours, that past experiences that we’d forgotten or that we were already aware that they were very close to the bone, that we can help us make sense of what is going on right now.
If as a child you observed, for example, your father exerting control over your mother and she lacked financial freedom, something that was extremely common when most of us were kids and still exists, that will have sent a message to you about the need to fiercely protect your independence. If your mother, like mine and many others, told you that you need a man for security, on one hand you’ll feel as if you need to be defined by a relationship to be valid and at the same time, will be terrified of giving you up and having little or no security, so you become paralysed by fear while procrastinating in unavailable relationships. Told that you were a financial burden or that your mother “ruined” her life by getting married or having kids and you’ll probably crap yourself at the thought of doing either of these (associated with loss of independence) or panic that you’re being a burden on your partner if you ask them for something, again, a habit I’ve had to kick.
Parents lost your house when you were a kid (very common with BR readers)? Doesn’t matter how much money you have, if you never made peace with it, you’ll still be living like any minute now, it will all be taken away from you. Heard crap like, “Money is the root of all evil”, “People don’t like people with money”, “You’ll make people feel bad if you have money”, and boom, you feel shame about how much you earn. Told stuff like, “Men don’t like women who are ‘more clever’ than them or who earn more”, and you’re already poised to be defending you or playing down your accolades, possibly dating men who earn less than you and then playing it small. Somebody (or you) told you that people have one over you if they earn more than you and next thing, you’ll be paranoid that they’re out to get you. I could go on—and it’s such a fascinating topic—but you get the gist.
Mani, you need to have a very honest conversation with you about your beliefs and associations with money particularly in the context of your relationships.
Write down all of your money memories and associations. I thought I’d have a few things on my list and two very long pages of bullets later and I was still going. You will be so much more aware of why you feel uncomfortable in certain money situations and dynamics—much lightbulbs and connecting of dots. These present you with an opportunity to add some context and forgive you–check out my Unsent Letter Guide.
As for your first ex, the problem wasn’t that he started earning more than you; the problem is that his behaviour was already a problem and he exploited something that someone else who was not controlling and problematic, would not have done. Financial abuse such as taking control of the finances, controlling you with money, running up loads of debt so you can’t leave, are just some of the tricks of the controlling trade. Any relationship where there is talk of the “upper hand”, is a relationship with control and power issues, is a relationship on a code red alert.
While we have moved along somewhat and there are plenty of men and women who don’t feel threatened by earning less than their partners, there are some who still do, and conversely some people use finances to leverage power. Their money attitudes are emblematic of the larger issue: that they either feel insecure and struggle with low self-worth and/or they have unhealthy behaviour and attitudes that if it wasn’t money, they’d be showing their controlling ways via another means. Power and control is about perception. I’ve seen people without two beans to rub together control someone with money and vice versa. It takes a certain mentality more than the amount of money one has.
It can be very hard to ask for help or to trust your partner to lean on them when you’re very afraid of being just like ___________ {insert parent(s)/caregivers/significant person}. I talk to so many women who panic about not earning or earning less after having kids (or earning less full stop) and it’s not necessarily because their partner is controlling but because of what they feel is the loss of independence, looking like what they think is the ‘wrong’ type of woman, and critically, the vulnerability of relying on someone else.
If you don’t acknowledge what’s behind your baggage with money but also the bigger picture of what happened in your relationship with your ex, you will keep being triggered.
Even if you met a man who earned the same as you or who didn’t give a rat’s what you earn and who just loved you for you, if you don’t believe that you can have a successful relationship without having to defend you or without ensuring that you closely monitor the financial balance, this cycle will continue, as proven by your experience with Mr Wealthy. If your biggest concern was about how much you could afford to pay and your discomfort, you weren’t really present in those dates—you were too busy worrying about being ‘back there’ again.
Did you feel as if you owed him? Or that he was buying you? Wealthy people can afford many things but actually, they can’t buy happiness or people, a debate I always enjoy after watching An Indecent Proposal (great film!).
I imagine you felt triggered with Mr Wealthy because if your ex pulled off his malarkey by earning more than you after you had a child, you were closely associating this man’s significant wealth with significant control. In reality, it was just dates in posh places, not you signing over the leasehold on your self-esteem and ability to live. Only you know whether your discomfort reflected his behaviour or your projections.
You may think that making an internal rule, ‘Only have relationships with people who earn exactly the same amount as [you]’, protects you from the past but all it does is keep you tied to the guilt and pain from that experience plus even when you abide by the rule, the fear still remains.
Take some time to address the hurt that you experienced from that relationship and anything else connected to it, because whatever you each earn, you need to be secure in who you are and you need to be present. You are able to take care of you and your daughter, right now. Anyone who you choose to share a relationship with, is adding to your life, not taking over you and your responsibilities.
Each Wednesday, I help a reader to solve a dilemma. To submit a question, please email natalie AT baggagereclaim.com with ‘Advice Wednesday’ in the subject line. If you would prefer your question to be featured on the podcast, drop a line to podcast AT baggagereclaim.com. Keep questions below 200 words.
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My recent boyfriend of over one year was extremely wealthy – EXTREMELY. And so were all his friends. It afforded us a very fun relationship but there was definitely a power imbalance and he definitely felt superior. I also did not know he was wealthy to start off with. However, he used his wealth with me as a way to illicit ‘good’ behaviour from me which he in turn didn’t have to reciprocate because well – he had money. He was like everyone I have ever known with money. They give with one hand and hold your hand to the fire for it. In the end he ended up beating me up. His superiority complex which he hid for many months only got worse and worse and yes – at the end of the relationship I heard the words “After all I’ve done for you”. Meaning the dinners, hotels etc etc. What he meant to say was ‘After all I’ve spent on you”. My contributions to the relationship – moving myself and my daughter 1000km to his city, my spending time away from my family to be with him, my spending time away from my Honours, my thoughtfulness etc etc. was completely nullified in his head because he spent money on me. In my experience of him and his friends it is wise to be cautious of those with too much money – money does seem to corrupt and they don’t seem to feel the need to develop themselves if all they need to do is pull their wallet out and pretend to be conscious human beings. He also mixed with celebrities, lawyers, big guns and they ALL took expensive drugs – it’s just what wealthy people do. Of course, I’ve met wealthy people that don’t do that but they are the exception in my experience and not the norm. Beware a wealthy man – he feels entitled.
Very similar to my experience! My ex was totally EU, was attracted to me because I was ‘self made’ ie own House,car, decent job… He earned way more than me and was very generous but that was his way to try and control me, his only answer to a situation was to open his wallet so he could go out on his own to do what HE wanted.
Never any genuine thought, fist full of cash which I always refused. Even wanted to pay my mortgage, but not live with me?? Bunch of supermarket flowers would have honestly meant more!!
I ended it and he’s back with the ex gf who continues to drain him financially, recently had a baby with another guy, steals from him and he’s gone back?! My take is that some men are happy to pay anything (if they have it) to keep the upper hand. These type of guys in my opinion do don’t like or value women, at all!!
Great post as always Nat!!
Bronze,
That sounds awful! I had an ex-boyf who beat me up (unprovoked) once so I find any man who is capable of harming a woman totally abhorrent. Are you and your daughter safe and well now?
In future, please be super vigilant and do your utmost to ensure future partners are heavily vetted before introducing them to your child. You said that you were together just over a year, (you may have known him longer than that, I don’t know…) but that doesn’t seem long enough to get to know someone who is going to be around your daughter. I don’t mean to preach or be judgmental but I’ve heard horror stories from women (whom I know) about how their new partners were abusive (physically, verbally, sexually) towards their kids without them knowing. You have to be so careful about who you bring around your kids these days – men and women.
He never met my daughter. I kept all of my children away from him and only ever saw him alone (except for a few lunches here and there with various family members) and I only ever met his kids once. We were both very careful of getting our kids in involved in something that might not last. As parents we were on the same page with that. I spent weekends etc. with him when my daughter was at her dads. We moved to his city in the same week it happened – it was too late to back out – I’d already started a PhD down here and didn’t want to give up that opportunity. So we are here alone. He does not know where we live although he would have a general idea. I’m not too sure what you mean by ‘unprovoked’ as I’m not sure what behaviours would warrant a physical beating by someone twice as strong? This wealthy man was also extremely jealous and quite twisted. I was just unaware how much. He thought everybody was trying to chat me up – even women, waiters etc. He had problems with some of my dresses (although they were quite ok). He thought if I was friendly to a taxi driver, woman, man, shopkeeper etc that I wanted to sleep with them. He followed me and saw me talk to a man (yes, TALK) and in his mind he thought I was chatting him up – we were in fact talking about my work on a clinical trial, but I digress, as I don’t want this to sound like I’m making excuses for talking to a man as if I was doing something wrong. There will never be an OK scenario for ANYBODY to physically injure another person (unless they touch my kids). He waited for me behind the door and ambushed me and beat me up. I suffered a severe injury to my head. I have not seen him since. Of course there has been texts but that is it and that has also stopped. He was never going to live with us nor were my daughter or I ever going to live with him. I was already wary of some of his jealous behaviour and was not about to put myself at the mercy of him, due to some other things that had happened and that made me unsure. He became verbally abusive once when I joined a conversation re circumcision and put forth some statistical data I knew on the subject – in his mind, I shouldn’t be talking or even kind of talking about penises despite having made decision around my sons penis when he was a baby!! – He became abusive over that and he broke up with me about other things he ‘imagined’ I may have done prior to meeting him. None of it in any way true. He also spent hours on a website I didn’t even know existed looking for what he then believed was a picture of me and interrogated me over it. I believed with time we could work through his issues and he would start to see ME as I really was and not through his distorted warped perception, that he seems to hold for all women. I thought it had something to do with his past experiences with women and soon he would learn to trust me. He was always going to see things that weren’t there. I didn’t realise how bad it was and for the rest of the time – 95% of the time he was the most romantic, generous, fun, intelligent, attentive, caring individual I have ever met. The other 5% however may have ended up getting me killed. I have always been extremely careful re my children. This is the first man I have even allowed near ME since the end of my crappy marriage in 2010, which was over 20 years long. I am now rebuilding myself back up the way I had to after the end of my marriage, in a strange city, on my own with my daughter nursing a broken heart over all the ‘good’ parts of a man, who had a very serious and deadly flaw. Having gone out with a girlfriend last night to an exclusive rooftop club and have a man overstep my boundaries (rubbed my arm) and when I made it clear that I didn’t appreciated being touched by people I don’t know and that he wouldn’t be ‘getting any’ from me, he then proceeded to tell me what an awful woman I was etc etc and trounced off like some spoiled child, I’ve come to the conclusion that it will be many MORE years before I let another man near me. It simply isn’t worth it. It’s too hard to weed them out because they can act for a long time and I’m far too trusting and tend to try and see the good in everybody. I don’t want to live life being jaded by humanity and it seems the only way to do that – is to stay away from most of the men in this world. That way I might be able to hang onto a shred of belief that some men believe women are their equal and not just their vessels.
Wow Nat! This is something I’ve been battling with for a while now and I’m realizing that I need to have a serious conversation with myself regarding this particular issue. I can relate to money issues stemming from childhood days, well, even right now I can see it with my mum and dad. Growing up I always made a plan to have a job because I felt as if though I couldn’t ask my parents ( I have 3 other siblings who never made an effort to get jobs and whenever they asked for money they’d get it without hassle, yet they’d always make it seem as if though I was such a burden). Seeing this obviously made me feel hurt sometimes, but I was always glad that I had a job, however when I could finally afford to buy the things I saved up for they’d be upset (I’d hide whatever I bought or I’d get the “oh you have money now so you think you can spend it”).
I feel pressurized to be something/ have something going for myself and to be financially independent before entering into a relationship. I don’t like asking for help (because I was always told to do it myself) and I don’t want to be made to feel as if though the person i’m with is doing me a favor by paying for anything.
My ex (super wealthy) expected me to spoil him. He once said that his future wife shouldn’t ever sit at home thinking she can’t work, because he wants to spoiled too ( he wasn’t the generous kind though). I’d sometimes pay for dates because I didn’t want him thinking that I didn’t have any money of my own or that I expected him to pay. That relationship caused a lot of damage which I’ve worked through since but this money issue is still a problem for me today.
there’s a lot going on here, I know. I really want to work through it.
It’s about thinking as a couple vs thinking as individuals who are spending time together. If you’re a couple then you share resources and you both think through your boundaries about what is fair. It’s really common for all that ‘soft’ input – caring, organising, cooking, cleaning, negotiating – to be ignored in favour of the ‘countable’ things – x meals out, x trips or x treats. Because that caring stuff is often taken for granted when women do it.
If you can’t talk to someone reasonably about this, they’re not right for you.
I used to take my bf out for meals – I worked very long hours and was often too tired to cook. He was a student and he felt very uncomfortable about what he saw as a disparity. I saw it as using money so that we could have a nice time together and relax.
I believe the universe always gives us whatever we need to survive and thrive. I never worry about money, but I got fed up with my lawyer sister and some weathy friends who considered me less than because I never chased the almighty dollar. I guess that’s why I got a job with a start up company as VP of Public Affairs that paid more than my lawyer sister made. I drove a car that cost more than my first house, wore expensive suits, etc. All the materialistic people in my life praised me, but I hated the corporate structure and egotistical jerks at the top. In less than a year I quit and went back to the field of jounalism. The money wasn’t anywhere near what I made as a VP, but the happiness I felt and the love for the job made up for it. I could never be with a money worshipper, worrier or social climber whose life revolved around money. Tried it, hated it. Give me a happy person to love, without money fetishes. 🙂
I was in a dreadful 2nd marriage to someone who used me as his human savings account. He earned double what I made, but we each donated equally into a joint account for bills. It never occurred to me to discuss money before we got married because we were ‘in love’ – epic mistake. Ultimately, I ended up paying him off in exchange for my freedom and piece of mind. To this day I have issues with money.
It shouldn’t just come down to money or what job you do in the judgment of someone’s ‘worth’.
I think people are attracted to similar so would seek out a partner earning around the same as them, with the man earning a bit more, that would be the norm. Only a certain kind of guy wants to be taken care of and I would avoid him! I have noticed younger guys going for older women as they think they are set.
I couldn’t imagine a high powered business man with a supermarket worker. Some guys genuinely want to help support and provide, others its a tool in domination and control. You have to be careful.
From my past experiences my ex partner I knew when he had very little as a student, so when he got a good job and was on a decent amount I could travel/live abroad etc. I left my stuff behind. I did all the house chores which I didn’t mind. I never asked him for anything, If I wanted something new I made my own money. A few years later we weren’t getting along, I suspected a few things then he finally admitted he wanted to find someone ‘more like him’. Career orientated. He has done exactly that. Very short-sighted to think you can find someone in the same field and it works.
Since then I have also dated guys with low paid jobs, who have expected me to pay for everything or even asked me for money. My previous partner would never have done this, some what off-putting! I would never be with someone just for what I can get out them, I would rather stay single but its nice to be treated or feel special now and again, seems guys don’t do this so much now.
Not all contributions are in a monetary sense. Working together, sharing jobs etc. How much you earn isn’t going to make a relationship/marriage last!
My brothers ex wife had a good job but did zero in the house, he said he would have been happy for her to stay at home and have all of the money, but she didn’t want that.
So personal choice always comes into it.
Cherry,
You make a really good point about how someone’s worth should not be tied solely to their job or income level. It really bothers me when people look down on folks making minimum wage as unintelligent or unskilled. I have known people with graduate degrees who are stuck making minimum wage!
I think that people of vastly divergent income levels can definitely be attracted to each other, just as people with any differences – in education, interests, etc. are attracted to each other every day. For me personally, I think it is important to me to find a man who would be comfortable with me hypothetically earning more than he would, although it’s not really about the money. More of an acknowledgment that I have ambitions and I am very career-oriented, so I need a man who is comfortable with that and is not going to expect me to conform to a 1950s marriage. But these are purely my own values and by no means a statement about what “everyone” should feel comfortable with.
Thankyou NML, for answering my question. You are right there is so much angst in me around money and the control it wields. This response has taken me back to my childhood where I used to ask my dad for pocket money for bus expenses, while I was in college. Sometimes he used to be nice, but sometimes he would snap back. That is the originator for this discomfort. Whereas my brother was more comfortable asking and receiving money. Similar was the situation with my mum. I was always asking for the minimum, I always felt uncomfortable, that is I should remain within “boundaries”. Our parents were very caring and took an absolute wonderful care of us, we did a lot of traveling, entertaining. But I hardly handled hard cash while growing up. And when I got married I carried the same beliefs into marriage, and projected on ex husband the same role of “financial caretaker” as that of my parents. I did not take financial responsibility for myself. I was earning, but uncomfortable taking financial decisions. I did not think that I had “financially arrived” and needed others permission to spend the money I was earning. I know ridiculous!
After my child arrived I assumed ex would be happy to take of expenses for me and our child as we were expats and i was the trailing spouse. We never had honest discussions around money. It was always one sided, he doing the planning and i nodding! my opinions never mattered.
This was all to my detriment.
Dear Nat,
I always get so much out of your blogs and this one was great. I agree that our early conditioning around money really colors what we do and what we unconsciously choose. I have been both the one who had more money and controlled the checkbook and the one who had little money and whose love was “paid for.” I was much more comfortable in the latter role because it felt like my parents’ relationship. I was shaming and demeaning when I had the control because I thought a man should earn more than me and not cede control to a woman. I sure didn’t like me much when I was the asshole. I preferred for the man to be the asshole and for me to be the victim. That was how I saw my parents’ marriage.
I worked from the age of nine and learned the power and pleasure of having my own money and my independence. My last two boyfriends were both rich and took me out to dinner, bought me clothes, etc. but were controlling people. However, I did a lot of therapy and went to a group called Debtor’s Anonymous and discovered many of my under-the-surface beliefs and what I found was how passive aggressive I was, how shaming…and how ashamed. I basically prostituted myself to be taken care of.
This is a new era for me. I am working full time and learning about retirement, credit ratings, etc… all things I happily avoided by handing over the financial reins to a man. He dealt with the world for me and I could blame him if things went wrong. However, something shifted for me in my last relationship that ended 3 years ago. I saw how terribly UNSAFE it was to give control over to an emotionally unavailable man. His caprice could have me on the street at any moment. I knew I had to grow up and take my power back.
Recently I went out with a man who was kind yet had very little money and I found myself judging him for that. Then I realized I could take us out to nice dinners simply because I wanted the experience. It was nice. I felt empowered but not punitive. I still have a long way to go but I am learning through BR that power imbalances are ALWAYS me choosing something I didn’t know until I saw myself take action. In other words, I can see my misbeliefs by what I choose, by who I choose. This was such a helpful column and will give me a lot to think about this weekend. Thank you, ladies, and especially you, Nat. You are greatly increasing my relationship skills. I hope someday to have a good man from all this learning.
@laura g
i could have written your post, i feel exactly the same about men and wanting to be taken care of by a guy and not respecting one who cant
i also can be punitive if i hold the purse strings, i cant tolerate a man who has money problems, but i have also seen how men with money tend to be controlling.
i really want resolve this. the last guy was bad with money and didnt care, knew it couldnt work no matter how much i may have liked him. the guy before that was rich and pretty much told me when we lived together i couldnt go dancing on my own. dancing is a huge part of my self care and he wasnt that interested. plus he tried to change me in other ways. no way could i tolerate that eitger.
i want a respnsible man i can financially feel safe with, but not controlled by. I totally get your fears of EU men, you cant guarentee they will stick around. yet i still want to be taken care of, not because i cant take care of myself, i can, but not in the style i want, i want a guy to upgrade my life style. i get too fearful and also havent thought about my financial future on my own, i even have a hard time buying big purchases. i feel i need a man for this. thats how i saw my parents do it. dad made money and all financial decisions.
i know it sounds bad but i wont date a guy until i know he is going to meet my needs financially, otherwise i know i wont accept him and i can be a bitch about it.
Okay, Peeps, nothing has anything to do with money in terms of fundamental relationship issues. Nothing. Nada. It’s all about the values. The thing is in life things will change. Nothing is constant save values (time before mind).
Maybe some day you will make more money, less money, get sick, get well, etc. We are humans. We face challenges. All of us, each and every one of us. If you have values in set as well as your partner such as… love, care, trust, respect (to quote Natalie), and honesty, endurance, fortitude, respect, commitment, as well as love and respect for the human condition (all, including yours, your husband’s or partner’s, and or child/children’s), you are doing fine. You have to be your own constant in life. If what is inside of you stays steel, stays golden, or silver, or whatever but is lasting and enduring then you will be fine.
If you do not yet posses values worth a hoot. Get them. If your partner does not, leave them (life is extremely too short to waste on anyone’s shoddy worthless value system). Hold out for a partner with a heart of gold, not a wrist watch of gold.
Money is certainly a major issue between couples. It’s one of the main reasons for relationships ending. Unfortunately, shared values can’t override its power and that shouldn’t be ignored.
Crystal,
I strongly disagree. As stated in my above comment, there are a plethora of issues in life (including money) and stressors, if couples do in fact have shared values they can work through the issues. If they do not, it will be hard if not impossible to get through the natural occurrences of life together.
Crystal, if you make it about money then money is always going to be the (relationship) deal breaker. Then as Nat says work through whatever hangups there has been in one’s life where money has kind of been the boss. Instead factor in everything else about life as Crystal mentioned (other than money) and do the balancing thing, can’t go wrong there unless both are not on the same page or both are on the wrong page.
Oops correction….as Jennifer mentioned.
yes, i have made money a deal breaker, but I saw it as a lack of responsibility on the part of the men. The last guy i dated told me he will not travel because he has no money for that and he is happy camping every weekend. he recently told me that he had to borrow 2000.00 from friends to pay unexpected taxes. I could not feel safe with a guy like that, and pretty soon i would have to pay for him…..no thank you, i wont do that. so, even if some of our values matched on an emotional level, which is big, it still wouldnt work for me. so i agree with Crystal.
Gina, money is always a major factor in a relationship when two people live together, married or not. Study after study have shown it is one of the main causes for relationships ending. It’s not a small thing. It certainly isn’t always a dealbreaker for having a relationship, but it is a huge part of life when finances are shared with another person in any way.
So many women suffer due to not acknowledging this fact and are left in dire circumstances for it, being saddled with a partner’s debt upon breakup, etc. Ignoring money and finances cannot ever be an option when moving in with a life partner, and finances are being combined.
Crystal, in you opinion or maybe it is the general opinion (excluding mine) that money dynamics is part and parcel of being in any relationship (not just for the not/married). Mere balancing out every aspect of what is involved in living especially on a long-term basis for me is what is required. As I mentioned above, if you make it about money, or sex, or status, or whatever one deems as important (for it to have that ‘ok’ factor in a relationship as Nat mentioned) then if that one thing is lacking sure upheaval will not be too far away, and consistently continue to be so if it is not sorted out quick smart.
Nat’s blog is teaching so many women here how to be emotionally wise hence it is not just women having to be financially wise, women too are having to be wising up to every other aspect of a woman’s life. And when a guy comes along that complementary factor enters into the relationship (note a guy adds rather than swoops in and saves).
Money and finances can easily be intertwined into one’s relationship, along with fun and laughter, learning and growing, being creative, building on dreams, life plan goals, taking risks etc etc. Some really good suggestions on how to go about managing money and finances have been given as I am definitely not suggesting latter be ignored. However it need not be a major focus at the same time, it’s not a small thing as you say, it’s not a big thing is what I am saying. Balance things out, and the only way for women to stop suffering is to acknowledge and do something about it rather than rely wholly on someone else to do it all for them. Or remain in victim mode.
Shared values don’t mean a thing for working through conflicts, financial or otherwise. They’re simply shared values, they have no bearing on conflict resolution skills or lack thereof.
i agree, see post below
i agree and being financially responsible is an important value, at least for me and i cant handle a guy who is not, been there, they are hugely in debt and dont even worry about it.
i dated one guy who lost his job and didnt give a whoop. i was the one who worried, not him. i would have a heart attack living with that guy.
Whatever,
Again it’s about core values. Responsibility is a core value. Responsibility does not happen in isolation, just as irresponsibility does not happen in isolation. If you have a have a core value of responsibility, it permeates all through all areas of your life.
Nat has some great resources in the archives on this site on core values.
Agree with Jennifer, if both partners have no sense of responsibility for every aspect of the relationship then whatever one values as important is going to be the deal breaker if that is not showing up in the relationship. Money it seems is an important value (security issue perhaps) for at least Whatever and Crystal above. And as Nat mentioned work through those money woes/hangups from childhood.
If not a deal breaker it certainly is not fostering a happy way of being with someone long term.
Whatever, start choosing guys who are financially viable if you deem financial security an important value to include most importantly making sure their emotional status (that includes mutual love, care, trust, and respect) aligns with their financial viability. And that the financial viable prospector/s does not hold their wealth over you.
gina
thanks for your comment, yes, i do choose men who are at the very least financially responsible and together, i also want the heart and emotional availability, this is where it has been difficult in my search. i seem to find one or the other. a therapist told me the part of the brain that one uses to develop material abundance is completely differerent from the part of the brain needed to develop relational abundance, so loving, caring etc. this is why traditionally women did the relational with home and family and men did the financial, bread winners. finding a guy who is goid with money and good with relationship has been tough for me.
I was with my sons father for 4 years. When I met him he didn’t have a job. At the time I didn’t have a problem helping him out. However, once my son was born he got a job and I would work part time because we didn’t have a full time babysitter. Yet, he worked full time and would make me go halves on everything knowing I didn’t make as much as him. If I didn’t do it he would have an attitude and complain. One day I called to see what his savings account looked like and to my surprise he had THOUSANDS SAVED!! It definitely upset me. How can someone that I have helped so much when he had nothing be so ungreatful? He eventually left me, after everything I did for him. Now that he has money he doesn’t need me anymore. Even to buy his son clothes there is always an issue. Money is the root of evil.
i hope you got half of it!
If you are thinking of cohabitating, and an offer is made to share finances “fifty-fifty”, that should be recognized as a red-flag.
Joint finances should be shared on a percentage basis. If you make $70,000 and he makes $30,000 annually, that means you pay 70% of the bill and he pays 30%. Of every shared bill – utilities, rent/mortgage, cable, house maintenance…etc. I believe every couple should have 3 accounts – his, hers, and the joint account. You should figure out what the joint bills are, and then figure out how much each of you will contribute to the joint account to cover those bills. If you can’t even sit down to talk about what joint expenses are, you are living in a financial fog. To further my example, if rent is $700 a month, then the higher salary person would contribute $490 to the joint account and the other person would contribute $210.00 a month.
If it gets into “I don’t watch cable as much as you so you should pay more” – well, that relationship is never going to deepen and there will be power plays throughout the union.
That is why coupledom is hard, and why money issues divide more unions than infidelity. If people laid the financial framework out at the start of the union, it would not take very long to find out if both of you are on the same page about how seriously you want to be a couple. If he or she balks at revealing their credit reports – bad sign. If he or she “forgets” to make that joint deposit so that the monthly bills are covered, bad sign. Maybe people who want to get married should first rent an apartment together and do a trial run of seeing how each person handles money BEFORE making it permanent with marriage vows.
Now that it is common that women work outside the home, I do hear young men sizing up women based on their income. I think that some men look for the best financial catch these days, too, just like they feel women have always done.
Love the way you broke it down. I completely agree. ????
I agree with that. I used to live in a housing coop and we shared the big bills more or less this way, based on people’s ability to pay. Not that any of us who were earning were getting a lot, but you have to think about it when what to you is an affordable sum is unaffordable to someone you are sharing living space with, and means they have to compromise on other things.
I dated someone wealthy who loved to tell me how much money he had and how he’d been taken advantage of in the past, and would never ‘keep’ a girl again. I am financially independent so this wasn’t an issue for me but it sure as hell should have been a red flag. I would cook to keeps expenses down, but he couldn’t be bothered so we’d go out and it was always halves. He never treated me to anything but would enjoy telling me how generous he was with other people. He’d only reach for his wallet when I was already in the midst of paying (I guess he was waiting to see I wasn’t expecting him to pay).
I completely agree with Kriss, it’s the difference between thinking as a couple vs thinking as two individuals.
Jennifer,
“Hold out for a partner with a heart of gold, not a wrist watch of gold.” Amen.
heart of gold guys are usually generous too!a
Wow, this post and the comments from BR members has really taken me back to not only my childhood.money has always been and still is the CENTRE of my family’s dynamics,how we relate to and treat each other.My mum was a money monster.I think my mum might have a mental illness or circumstances made her behave like that. My dad was a provider. My mum used to work but quit to take care of us,which i appreciate it was hard with 6 children. My earliest money i earned was when 9 yrs, from hard work of digging sand out of local creeck and carry it kms away. I teamed up with my friend and together we managed to collect 5 buckets (20 kg size) after many weeks.We were paid equivalent of $30. I’s excited and could not wait to buy icecream and snacks at school like other kids. I still remember my mother’s smile when she convinced me to give her the money so I don’t loose it and she will be giving me $1 every day. I only ever got $1. I boasted to my friends how I have $14 more,imagine the embarassment when they asked.It was worse than my mum’s snapping when I asked for the rest. When I had my first period,my step sister showed me what to do. She had sliced the side of our then woolstuffed mattress and that was where i pulled out wool to use as sanitary pad as my mum never gave a shit and would simply say she had no money if asked. A luxurious change was when she’d give me (with resentment) money to buy toilet paper to use as sanitary pad. I remember several times I had to ask my dad for money directly to buy toilet paper and say why. It turns out he used to give mum monthly allowance to give us but she would pocket the money. She started seeing me as “rival” after asking dad to give us our allowances directly. My first time to use proper sanitary pad waz when i was about 16 or 17. My relationship with mum went officially sour shortly before i started high school. I spent whole year working in a shop to earn money to buy myself nice clothes and shoes.Until then my mum preffered to buy for everyone but me.She favoured my elder sister who was beautiful and i was ugly. So I earned the money,about $7000 in total.I’s 18. My mum knew where all good shops were.With the same smile and fake affection,made me give her the moneyand we’d go together.Then said she’d bought 3 beautiful fabrics,showed me and described the styles of dresses she chose for the tailor to saw them (she knew my measurements). She got angry when i was excited and wanted to go see the fabrics or wanted to check why dresses aren’t ready after 3 months of many excuses from my mum. One day I went to the tailor,wanted to see for myself where the dresses are at othetwise I wanted my fabrics and the money she was paid to make them back. Imagine my heart and face as she says she doesn’t know what i’m talking about, and that my mum had been telling her she will take the fabrics but she never did + she has never paid her any money. The lady was our family friend. It still pains me to this day. I wailed (true) all the way home,on the way explaining to my 13 year old little bro and friends when they asked what happened.I didn’t care and went straight to tell dad in between sobs.My dad was very mad and asked mum to pay me back. Well my dad paid me the money instead.The relationship between me and my mum officially died. She hated me with passion.I hurted but stopped to care.I refused to keep quiet when she drank our school fees and expected us to hide so dad doesn’t know we are missing school, or when she drank all the money for food and we’d starve or scramble for non or little food when dad travelled for work.I didn’t keep quiet when we almost lost our home which she had put down as security for a big loan (secretly), drank the money and was hiding bank warnings and docs in our room. We all agreed to tell dad,but i ended up being the villain of choice by my mum as of today.She even would call me “co-wife.” My biggest fear growing up was if dad died and we had to be with mum. My dad has his negative points (whole othet story) but has always been there,no matter what and without him we would not be what we are today. My mum sacrificed and been there for us to taking care of everyone including when i was verrrry sick but I dont know why i have mixef feelings about her. I have always wanted her to love me. You are my mum’s best if you give her money, and we do give her a lot.The moment you don’t have it she badmothes you and forgets you ever have given her anything. She expects to be given money.She’s pocke the money dad gave her for my physiotherapy and tell me not to tell dad i missed.She told me how I drained the family out of mone for my sickness. I have always wanted to grow up, have a career, move as far away from home and be financially independent. I base my worthiness around that. After going well careerwise,i gell in love,moved countries to follow my controlling husband. Left the marriage with nothing but my son after 5 years.I left him with EVETYTHING.He swore to show me what he’s made of. Yes, 7 and expensive custody case later,and i have slaved and paid at least $90,000 legal fees. Still paying. Working,taking care of my son solely,renting a flat,we never go hungry,my son gets all he needs from me. However I feel worthless as my life is not a dream i had for myself.I’m ashamed that i dont have enough money to buy a place, i am in debts, i’s single and struggling,no proper man will love me if they know how poor i am. I’m scared of failing my son for not giving him good life. And time is running out. I think i’m rumbling and may be out of topic but hope i made sense.
Money is a very emotionally laden thing. So many of us feel “shame” about our money. Others feel “pride” about their money. For some, it’s about “control”. For others, “security”.
Money is a tool that can be used to create what we want. If we don’t know what we want, then chances are we will misuse the money tool. We’ll prop ourselves up with it, squander it, try to impress people with it, try to control people with it, try to please people with it. If we don’t know what we want, we won’t understand the power of being purposeful with our money. Save it. Build lasting things with it.
AfroK, stop shaming yourself about your money. You’ve managed to survive all those challenges. That speaks to your strength. A proper man will love you. A proper man won’t be looking for a meal ticket or a financial status symbol. He’ll look at a union with you as “we”, as in, how much money do “we” make, together. When you start appreciating yourself, you’ll find a man who manages money at least as well as you, if not better than you. Two smart money managers can achieve great things together!
I agree! 2 smart money managers can achieve great things together.
Elgie R,,
Sorry for coming back late. Thanks for taking time to read and make sense of my writing (typo, Autocorrect, bad punctuation and all). Mostly I really appreciate your kind words of support. You are totally on point with “when you start appreciating yourself, you’ll find a man who manages money at least as well as you,if not better than you.” Appreciating myself has been a major failure of mine. It is really bad and unhealthy and has affected my self esteem not only financially but in other areas of my life.sometimes I wonder if it influenced my choice of a husband.
I like the examples you gave on how you and your mum have worked well together as a team in accomplishing various financial projects. Great work you two. It does need not only willingness and determination but a lot of TRUST,and you two seem to have all of those. It reasonates with what you said on your post to me that two great money managers will achieve great things together! Any joint financial venture with my mum would always end up with one party loosing their part of the money by being conned, and it is never my mum. The loosing party being my dad, a relative,a housekeeper,friends,relatives,unsuspecting stranger. Always,to this day.Sad.
I’ll need practising not letting my beliefs around money get in my way of trying to meet a potential partner. It will be hard work. But you are right with “A proper man will love you. A proper man won’t be looking for a meal ticket or a financial status symbol. He will look at a union with you as “we”, as in,how much money do “we” make together.”
I’m looking forward to a day when I’ll be comfortable and not judge my worthy depending on how I earn,just as are you are even though you are currently unemployed. Cheers 🙂
Oops, a few typos peeps (autocorrect) but i hope it makes sense in terms of context.
I know a woman who paid attention to her spidey senses about money. She was a divorced single mother. She met a single man who treated her kind and seemed to be offering her a loving home, so after dating for two years, she took him up on the offer to move in to his home. Within days of cohabitating, he became controlling. He expected her to work and then come home and be the cook and the maid, since he felt he had “rescued’ her from being a divorced struggling single mom. She moved out within 10 days of moving in together. Something told her to keep her apartment lease. He was stunned that she had someplace else to go.
I don’t know if they ever got back together.
I share a duplex with my divorced Mom and we do the hers/hers/joint account thing, and it is wonderful. But both of us have said we don’t know if we could do this with a man. We’re actually pretty sure it would fail in a romantic relationship. I don’t think I can ever trust a man enough to allow him access to shared money. My mother told me that early on in her marriage to my father, she suggested pooling money to build a house fund. He poo-pooed that idea and told her to use her money to take care of the kids’ needs and he would take care of the house bills. He said “I pay the cost to be the boss.” Looking back over their now defunct marriage, I can see that they never “built” anything together. No structural improvements were ever made to the house. My Dad lives alone in that house now, and it has the same drafty windows that were originally installed when that house was built in 1950, and now it has fallen into noticeable disrepair. Together, my parents earned a nice middle class income, and with direction and purpose, they had enough money to make improvements. But they never pulled as a “team”, they were always just two separate people sharing a residence. Dad was in charge and saw no value in home improvements. Together in our duplex, my Mom and I have added central air, replaced windows, gotten floors refinished. The joint account is a godsend for the unexpected – like leaky roofs and busted water heaters and broken appliances. When it comes to sharing finances, you gotta find people who are on the same page, or else life is a series of financial battles.
I had a newlywed coworker who attempted the joint account thing. But her husband taps the joint account for anything he feels is a house expense – like lightbulbs, dishwashing detergent. So if he buys potato chips and lightbulbs, he feels justified in using the joint account. They have a very distant union, in that they seldom do things together. I think the last thing they did together was get married. She has her female posse and he has his male posse. They did buy a McMansion a few years back, and I have had no contact since they moved, so I am not sure how that union is faring. I do know she was one of ACMM posse members.
Money is neither good or bad. It is a tool that should be used to help you live your life on your terms. I totally get why Oprah has not married Stedman. Stedman would be long gone if had had access to her finances via a pre-nup.
I am not a great money manager, but I have learned to be better than I was. Direct deposit is my lifesaver. I calculate the yearly joint account needs and then I divide by 26 to determine how much I need to deposit from each paycheck into the joint account to cover those joint bills, and I set up an automatic deposit for that amount.
Currently I am unemployed, yet I do not see myself as not worth any man’s time.
I’ve always found that “he pays, you owe” is the typical attitude of very wealthy men…you’re merely another thing to be bought (to be fair, we live in a society which tells them this).
I once went out with a wealthy man who used to buy me presents…I’d come home to something every evening..clothes, jewellery etc. It sounds great, but it changed the whole dynamic of the evening because then I had to be appropriately grateful, rather than talk about what I wanted. I had to be saying thank you, thank you and then have sex blah blah. But I was having a difficult time at work, and that was what I wanted to offload about, except I couldn’t, because after 30 seconds he’d remind me that his present should have cheered me up…
The crunch came when he expected me to forgive the affair he was having on the basis that he was sorry and had shown this by buying me a big piece of jewellery. I wasn’t having any of it and walked, but it was an enormously painful lesson to learn.