One of the things that we need to acknowledge when we insist on telling ourselves that we’re “not good enough”, is that coming up with reasons is ironically a way of making us ‘super special’ albeit we’re not exactly going about it in a loving way. The most negative narratives are all tales and reasonings based around us being singled out in some way. It’s the ‘inverted narcissism’ where we imagine that we have far greater powers than we do and continuously take the blame for other people’s feelings and behaviour (or feel as if it’s our duty to please them). We block ourselves to the truth because we only see things with the low self-esteem lens which provides a very narrow view.
When, for instance, we don’t feel too good about ourselves and we’re in a family with another couple of siblings, it is easier for us to say horrible things about us than it is to put ourselves in what we feel is a vulnerable position by standing next to them, so we accept failure from the outset and decide that they are “better than” us or “more loved than” us, so now we’re the odd one out, the one who always messes up, the ______ one, or the one who isn’t loved. We might talk about our family as if we’re the only one who struggled with, for instance, a parent, forgetting that our siblings or the other parent may have gone through their own experiences. Or, even if we acknowledge that we are not the only person who experienced problems, we just can’t help but try to make us extra responsible for how we were treated.
We’ve then carved out our own special space and we end dining off of these feelings and the injustice of it all.
When we spend time trying to uncover the origins of our beliefs or we start to question the authenticity and accuracy of them, we can encounter a surprising amount of inner resistance. We are attached to the security blanket of feeling inferior. We are attached to the story. As a result, when someone points out that we wouldn’t deride another child or person for the same thing, or that parents are not infallible, or we look at reframing that story with some perspective and truth, we can suddenly find that we’re digging our heels in, in subtle and not so subtle ways. It’s like, How will I be special if I don’t tell the story in this way anymore? How will I be special if I don’t make me out to be unworthy in the some way?
But why do we want to make ourselves special by beating us up and decimating our worth?
Here are some of the common narratives that people share with me around being ‘special’ in a negative way:
- Feeling to blame for other people’s behaviour, but only the negative behaviour of course, not the successes.
- Blaming ourselves for why something that wasn’t 100% within our control, went wrong.
- Insisting that we’re “not worthy” for reasons that other people don’t use as reasons to define themselves as unworthy.
- Taking on a problematic partner, who might also be fresh out of a relationship or even newly separated or divorced, and despite them having a catalog of issues that even their exes would vouch for, still holding us responsible for the sum total of this person’s problems and why they won’t change their ways.
- Deciding that something that is possible for others isn’t possible for us because we are defining us by virtue of our background, past, appearance, mistakes etc, or because we’ve identified something else about us that we think limits our capabilities.
- Deciding that we have to be perfect even though this is impossible and no one else is or has to be.
- Making someone out to be that special and then feeling uplifted and flattered by being ‘chosen’ and then deciding that we’re worth nothing now that they’ve left or are not who we exaggerated them to be.
- Deciding that the story that we’re telling about our situation past or present, is unique in totality, as in never happened before– this is particularly common with people who are involved in affairs. We say this stuff because then we don’t have to take action because we’re “so different”.
- Complicating the way that we see a situation in order to feel special.
- Saying that someone hates us so that we can feel at the focus of their thoughts. We convince ourselves that we’re the target of their dislike and occupying their every thought.
- Coming up with stories about how people are out to destroy us. When we do this on the regular, it’s time to start asking, What is so special about me that wherever I go, somebody is out to get me?
Here’s the thing: If any of these narratives sound familiar to you, sometime soon, you need to start recognising that you are already a valuable and worthwhile human being in your own right. Sure, you might feel ‘exceptional’ by telling you horrible things about you and bonking you on the head with the same stories and reasoning habits, but what you don’t ever feel when you’re doing this, is good. It is very hard to act like a person of value when you keep devaluing you and the more you push this narrative, is the more you will end up around people and in situations that reflect the way that you see and treat you. We accept mistreatment from people that’s in reality, only a little less than how we treat ourselves, so you must take command of your narrative.
You are the storyteller – if you’re going to pass down and repeat a story through the ages, make sure it’s a good one and make sure that you update it regularly to reflect a more compassionate and truthful perspective. It is not important to be right; it is important to be you. Would you rather be “right” and feeling bad or “wrong” and giving you a chance?
Your thoughts?
Challenge narratives with my free Unsent Letter Guide. Also check out the Get Out of Stuck ebook for deep beliefs work.
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Haha! In the past I am sure I used to come across like my situational upbringing was SO different than what anyone else could understand or relate to. They didn’t know what it was like to be ME. It was a way to be special because that’s what made me special ( not entitled though). I hung on to of all my hardships that I overcame (or so I thought – I really hadn’t because I was still clinging to them in order to tell myself I was special) to remind myself of how they made me “special”.
This is absolutely brilliant ! So well put, succint and very much all-encompassing at the same time. It’s spot on for me in certain ways (although on the outside,and on good days, I ooze confidence, I have this ingrained idea that I really am not good enough!for anything…), and super spot on for my friend as well, who keeps telling herself a story that is going to bring her life to a forever halt unless she “rewrites” it and upgrades it accordingly with the achievements and proofs of ..progress she’s always refusing to acknowledge. Obviously I’m guilty of that myself and still really having a hard time saying, out loud (but to myself alone): I am worthy, I am capable, I am a wonderful person in my own way, and who is good enough!” it almost brought me to tears when I once had to say to a therapist “I am a nice person”, but with conviction. I actually managed to say it by saying it casually and then moving on lightly to my other characteristics, I am sweet to others, I try to care, I guess I’m this and that… And by doing that I literally managed to downplay what I had to say in my mind, by not giving the statement enough power – I should have said it short and with conviction : I am worthy! I am good enough! But I could not, I didn’t believe it myself so I just uttered the words -despite the therapist not forcing me in any way to do so. She was just mentioning that some people can’t bring themselves to say that, and that it takes a lot – and I was just …trying to lie my way through life as I always did, pretending that everything is ok.. Well at least this time I was only pretending to “work on being better, trying to get better”. At least I was not lying saying yeah I’ll be alright. I did however take home the bitter taste of how bad I’d got if I felt like I should lie to a lovely therapist lady who was there to help me for a few sessions. That’s the story we create in our heads, then we just love it so much…and we never let go of our hurt.
And I’ll even say it…I don’t know about others but I do know about me – when you live with pain,it becomes so familiar it’s almost like your only friend. The same with anger. And then with despising the terrible world that “makes us go through such terrible things”. Oh and how I loved to hurt sometimes when it was just too terrible to admit I am playing the victim – because it’s easier, and it’s what I know, and it’s so familiar that you don’t know HOW to live without this defining, deeply rooted black cloud of trouble that’s been around forever, like a fiend, who turns into your protective friend too. It’s the safety blanket like Nat put it. I’ve read about these things before and always tried to avoid thinking about it in detail once things had started looking up a bit you know?… As soon as you find an excuse to look away, you will. And then when a situation arises, you are upset again, down and crying, angry and depressed, and frustrated..and your friend fiend comes along to say the same story over and over again, “loving” you and “warming” you up with the same bitter sweet taste of …I don’t even know what to call it. The bitter sweet taste of the familiar pain you just won’t part with for fear you’d actually have to have a clear, brave look at your own life -and see the changes, and refresh that story indeed. It takes courage and the fear of letting go of your comfortable friend fiend will take your breath away… Because if we start saying yes to loving ourselves, WE DO NOT KNOW WHAT LIES AHEAD, AT ALL… So, many many times we just cave in and instead of looking at the blank,scary,unwritten future, we turn around and hold our story dear close to chest, warming up in the familiar of our old, beloved old pains. I hope I’m not being mean, just honest. Maybe we shouldn’t be afraid anymore. We’ve escaped our past, this is a died time. It’s the present. So we should be brave. Braver.
I’m also very good at just talking sometimes, but lately, in this past year..I have made some moves…and many thanks to some of the posts here.
Good luck to us all <3
Ro – I can so identify with you! This post from Nat will really make me think in future – I am worthy!!!!
Yes…I’m trying to do that myself. Just started seeing people for socialising purposes only and the moment I like someone and something happens, briefly, I find myself doubting and seeking confirmation again. I find it hard to be..stable and control my emotional response in the face of..the unknown, rejection, flings.. I don’t think I’m ready yet – to meet even random men I fancy a little bit. I sometimes think too much, and I don’t want to… I feel confident at first and then after I get something, I don’t always like it when I don’t always get it back.. I’m getting better with a bit of analysis but still, I just don’t like my emotional response … 🙁
Thanks, I enjoy your column. Acknowledging my self worth brings me a lot closer to being able to recognizing when someone else is devaluing me.
Ouch! I’ve been doing a lot of work around my childhood lately, so all the raw feelings of that time have been brought to the surface. I had a great childhood in many ways, but was boundaryless, and felt like a victim. And so, I’ve been recreating that position of victim throughout my life – all aspects of victim (rescuer, victim, bully). I managed to work through and let go of the first and last, but still believed I couldn’t have what others have. I’ve kept myself small so as not to ruffle any feathers. Being a victim, though, releases us from taking responsibility for our own lives – our own happiness. I’m tired of this role… I want to LIVE life – a full life, that really IS special.
Cindy, this is an admirable message – if you have an ingrained victim mentality and now can recognise it, and even that you’ve bullied, you can live life in any way that you want!
When I was involved for many years with an EUM, I thought there was something special about me/him/us and that I was always doing the right thing because my intentions were good. I avoided conflict and like you, went out of my way not to offend people, thinking I was an inherently good person. But I had behaviour that was at times two-faced, disingenuous, dishonest, and excessively self centred. It takes a lot to see that really, everyone believes themselves to be decent, but as all of us here know, this isn’t true!
Like you say, a victim mentality releases us from taking responsibility and means that we turn to others or our past to explain any issues that we have. Victimhood is the easiest route that many hold onto for life, but also one that prevents us from living the fullest, most satisfying lives. It’s a huge deal to rewrite our own script and second-guess our responses and actions once we realise our autopilot behaviour isn’t working, but it’s also incredibly empowering and fulfilling. Of course we are all victims at times in our lives, whether it’s some form of family abuse, crimes, illnesses, job problems, etc., and we all have times when we rightfully demand sympathy and recognition of our plight and the right to behave in exceptional ways, but very different when it becomes our normal MO.
I know what you mean about thinking you can’t have what others have – it hits me like a brick sometimes, how hard it can be to have what others take for granted, because they grew up with self-worth and I didn’t. But there is also something special to appreciating what I have and feeling more and more like anything is possible with an open heart.
I don’t know if all that makes sense to you, but there is nothing at all to stop you living a life that is special, for the right reasons!
This is quite timely. I am realizing that I made my ex-EUM very special in my mind in the beginning because we are from the same hometown but we now live (and met) elsewhere – I assumed same values, etc. and ignored his red flags because (I realize now): I wanted validation from someone who *knows* where I am from and sees me as I am now – and validates that I “overcame.”
I think, looking back on things and realizing I should not have even given him a scrap of my attention, it’s time for me to give myself credit that my history, my childhood, my traumas have *not* held me back. Or I have prospered in spite of that. And given that his past has trapped him so thoroughly, I was expecting validation from someone ill-equipped to grasp just how far I’ve come. I remember how weird it was, him talking about things that happened a long time ago as if they were still fresh – and I didn’t know what else to do so I brought up my old childhood wounds too – even though they’re no longer fresh. I didn’t know how else to relate to him except to say, “Me too” – even though those experiences no longer haunt me. I was doing the armchair therapist thing and then, telling a story from my past that doesn’t really define me anymore so I could connect with him in the present. All of our connection was built on the past… no wonder he couldn’t focus on the future. He does need a therapist but I don’t work for free so…
Hi all,
I’m not sure if this is the right space to share my current problem, but I’ll just give it a go. I’ve been reading Baggage Reclaim re. healthy boundaries for a while, and it’s been the most magnificent eye opener – just now, however, I seem to have met my match dealing with healthy boundaries, and I would appreciate your advice:
I’ve been with my current boyfriend for 6 months. He is a lovely, wonderful, caring man, and I can imagine a future with him. A few days ago, I caught him lying to me – about the extent to which he has been in contact with other women (flirting), and, unfortunately, also that, very early on in our relationship, he overtly lied to me about whom he had been spending the day with. (Another woman who has been after him for a while.) He swears on everything that is dear to him that nothing physical has happened with anyone – but he feels terrible enough having been in contact with these women, and keeping the nature of his communications a secret. In the process of our conversation he completely fell apart, and ended up sharing some very dark and sad secrets with me about his childhood – something he has not been able to process or share with anyone. According to him, it’s led him to make some questionable choices in his life, and seek validation (albeit harmless and non-physical, according to him), from women. He is now looking for a therapist to finally work on his problems, not least because he understands he needs to in order to have a healthy relationship with me. Something he wants more than anything life, he says.
After promising myself in the past that I would have zero tolerance for lying, here I am in a relationship with a man who fully understands the scope of his issues and wants to work it out with me. What do I do – keep up this stark zero tolerance boundary no matter what? Where do I go from here? I don’t want to make excuses for his behavior, but I also do not want to become an hard-hearted, inflexible woman incapable of working through issues. That doesn’t sound healthy to me either, and I’m sure I will never find a man without his own…baggage. Can any of you relate? I would be so grateful for your perspectives and input. Thank you!
His problems aren’t yours. I see his lying not as a red flag but a deal breaker. Let him work on his issues but not through you – it’s not fair to use this relationship in that way. While talking and flirting seem innocent on the surface, and he can make it look like nothing is going on beyond that, these are connections he is making with other women. No thanks! Emotional connections are the beginnings of relationships. They are beginning of bonds to someone other than your partner and after time, making the leap to a physical connection isn’t as difficult. No one is perfect and working on your issues is admirable. I’d find someone with less challenging issues.
Beme, refusing to make his issues yours does not make you a hard-hearted, inflexible woman unable to work through issues. His issues are his to work on and have been around long before you came along. His confiding his dark secrets to you does not confirm your special status and I suspect you are not the first one to have heard about them. And also, letting up on your values is not doing him any favour and will not be appreciated in the way you may hope for. Natalie has written a great deal on fixer-uppers, look the post up! And also, do not kid yourself that it was out of loving and caring that he lied to you. If you have a boundary, it has to be a stark zero tolerance one, otherwise it is no boundary at all.
Beme, there’s baggage and then there is *baggage.* Only you know what your deal breakers are and usually your gut knows far better than your head. This may be a perfectly wonderful man who owns his flaws and is serious about doing the work he needs for healing. Or not. The proof is in the pudding. The proof is in what actions he takes and whether he walks the talk. He says he wants this healing more than anything in life? Let him prove it. What you want in a partner is not a perfect man with no baggage. What you want is someone who is willing to do the painful work to heal, mature, gain wisdom and integrity, and become a man you can trust and be proud of.
Be careful of how far down the road of making-excuses-for-him you want to go and how much of a Florence you want to be. If you want to hang in there and support him in his journey of healing, great. But do so from a position of strength and self-respect. Lying would be a number one deal breaker for me and having zero tolerance for lying is a perfectly reasonable boundary. I would tell this guy that if he lies to you one more time, it’s over. If he’s as serious as he says he is, he will show it. Keep your eyes open. Don’t allow his “one time in band camp” woe-is-me stories make you accept or justify ANY disrespectful behavior.
Hi Beme! I think we’d all agree that we all have baggage – but this sounds like he’s has some major work to do and, in the meantime, you’re seeing red flags and not getting what you need in order to trust and feel comfortable with him. This is the problem.
I think he’s trying to manage down your expectations – and I find it is common for EUMs to get us to refocus the attention on them when we recognize there’s a problem. In other words, they don’t really “own” the problem so much as take a position of, “Yes, you’re right – I’m so broken/flawed, but you make me feel so much better; now let’s all rally around my improvement” so he never really feels the consequences of not doing the work on himself he needs to do. His efforts may be in earnest but it does sound to me like there’s some future-faking here (“Eventually, I’ll be great!”) and letting himself off the hook. I think you have to figure out if this guy is meeting your needs during his “renovation.”
When I broke up with my ex-EUM, I said something along the lines of, “You have a lot to figure out and I am removing myself so you can do that work.” It’s not hard-hearted or inflexible to recognize when someone needs all of their attention to heal their bs – it means there’s not much left for you and it’s OK to respect yourself enough to bow out.
Hi, Beme. There is a truism that states: Everything before the ‘but’ is a lie.
You wrote “I don’t want to make excuses for his behavior, but”…
The truth is – you DO want to make excuses for his behavior. You want to believe that there is a faithful-to-one-woman man inside of him, and it is because of some horrid past, it ruined his trust, and he is just a wounded soul who can be loved into faithful behavior…. and YOU’RE the woman who can love him whole.
He wants to play the field. He is telling you he wants to play the field. He’s wrapping it in Script #92 – tell her I’m wounded and it’s not my real desire to sleep with multiple women but it’s a reaction to all the pain I have inside – and the script is working on you. If a faithful man is what you want, and if you stay with this man, you are telling him that he is worth more to you than you are.
You’ve decide he’s the best man you’ve had your hands on lately, so you are ready to believe the BS. That line where you say some woman has been “chasing after him for a while” pretty much shouts that you have this man on a pedestal. All I am saying is, if you want a guy who is all your own, this man is not the one. If you can be friends with this man, and not have sexual intimacy, the friendzone might work. But for now, he is into chasing after women…he’s letting you in on it, and if you go along with the program, his disregard for your feelings will increase as time marches on.
I’d be asking myself why he only wants to see a therapist NOW….why? Because you busted him. If you do decide to keep seeing him, take a step back and let the actions (not words) speak for themselves. Sounds like he’s trying a version of the re-set button, oh I’ll see a therapist to keep her off my back, might go a couple of times just to make sure, then I’ll be cured and she better not mention it again. Meh, lying is a dealbreaker for me too, especially when it concerns other women. If it was all so innocent, it wouldn’t require a lie in the first place
Wow, thank you all for your thoughtful responses! It’s nice to know there is wise support out there.
Well, let me put it this way. I myself am recovering from assclownery and psychopathic men in relationships. What I want is to rid myself of the rot they have instilled in my life – the space I want to inhabit is one where assclowns and psychopaths are not the norm, and where human beings reign. In essence, I am trying to relearn what normal is – in all its complex glory – and act from a place of strength and self-respect, as well as forgiveness, growth, and healing, as that is what “normal” relationships entail – no matter the horrible experience I’ve had in the past.
Lying is lying. There is no justification. It’s not “normal” per se. The fact that he had his break down and shared his self-doubts and problems does not muddy the fact that he made a gigantic mistake in lying to me. These are two separate things, not to be confused. I know it, he knows it. So where do I go from there? Do I reactivate and act from past traumas, assume he is a pathological liar, and bail? Now what good does this do me? What hope will I have for coping with the hurts and disappointments every relationship entails? I could very well dump him (there’s no pedestal to speak of Elgie R.) and do the whole thing over. Maybe the next one won’t lie about his flirting. Maybe it won’t be lying at all. Maybe it’ll be some other issue I can’t even fathom right now. Then what?
What standard am I even holding these men to? In all honesty – I TOO have minimized the extent to which I may have been in touch with other men. If he’d asked me about it, would I have initially minimized or even lied to not give the wrong impression? You know what? Probably not, but in the perfect storm of circumstances, maybe I would have. Nothing sinister was going on. I wasn’t cheating or testing out other men – I was enjoying the attention while also starting up a new relationship with a man I may decide to chose as my life partner. Am I an assclown or unavailable? No. Do I have fears and dark corners of doubts and worries? Sure. I am trying to stay centered and not lose myself at first sight of someone I think has potential. Again, none of this is justification for HIS lying. All I am saying is that I’m dealing with a human being – and why should my past traumas rob me of the possibility of healing and growing from this?
The fact that he’s broken down and is now seeking help has little to do with me. I’m not in the process of Florence-ing him. I don’t want to play armchair psychologist, coddle him for all his past hurts, or whatnot. My involvement in his healing is and will be limited. And I will not use it as an explanation or justification for him to break the contracts of our relationship. Of course I will keep my eyes and ears open, and watch very carefully how committed he is to getting help and heal. He’s already made an appointment, so that’s reassuring.
Other, very good and healthy relationships I know have recovered from lying (and even cheating!), why should I always be the one to have attracted the psychopath? Seeing myself that way robs me of all hope and reason.
Am I crazy for thinking this way?
Hi Beme,
I don’t want to tell you what to do because the ladies have all offered up real good advice, and I’d just be piling on, I just want to tell you what my experience was… I was involved with a man who did the exact same things. He would go out with ‘the guys from work’ and I would discover that along with the guys was a female coworker whom I knew from the past he found attractive… he would tell me that he ‘hardly knew’ some woman he met at a museum, I would later find out they were working on a project together, if which I knew nothing… he would make flirtacious remarks on women’s Facebook walls, thinking I couldn’t see them… and on and on it went. Whenever I would catch him, and call him out, he would either trot out some story of his dark childhood, or blame me (we were fighting!), or deny it to the hilt and say I was delusional and irrationally jealous. Whichever one ‘got me off his back.’
I don’t know how serious your man is about changing – you need to step back, see if he actually goes to more than one therapy session, and see if he can become a man of action rather than words, which can be extremely empty.
Know that by the time my relationship was grinding down to its conclusion (five years in) I had little to no trust left, and could not decipher between what was a threat and what was not, and was half-crazy. I became a person with him that I did not like – the person sitting there asking him “Did you just look at that woman??!!” – the person digging into the computer late at night to see if I could catch him in something. This is no way to live, let alone conduct a relationship.
I became his psychiatrist – constantly offering up nuggets of wisdom of WHY he is like this, WHY he’s doing this, WHY he’s hurting me – I should have been plumbing the depths of MY psyche, not his!
I too loved him with all of my heart, and he had many good qualities that I found lacking in other men – he was extremely funny, intelligent, attentive, and reliable – we also had amazing sexual chemistry.
But he had a deep-seated need for validation from women (probably stemming from his mother abandoning him when he was a child) and that was probably never going to go away – and it wasn’t something I wanted to deal with any longer.
I wish you the best!
Wow. This is scarily identical to the situation that I’m currently in. I’m becoming more and more exhausted with the second-guessing and deciphering of his actions, and am constantly questioning myself as to whether I’m being overly sensitive, or whether I need to heed the warning voice in my head that it telling me to run away as fast and as far as possible. Diane, could I ask you – how did you go about ending the relationship, and how did he react?
Hi Louise,
Basically, it ended with one of our usual fights. I found evidence that he had a relationship of some kind with a woman that I knew nothing about – everything was always a biiiiiig secret with him. He was never the type who could be like ‘Oh, I talked to my friend Louise today’ and then at least I’d know there was a friend named Louise. No, I’d find out because someone named Louise would text him while he’s in the shower or something. Louise, who is Louise??! Oh, my friend from blah blah blah. Your friend from where?! When there’s trust, you don’t get into these ridiculous conversations, and when there’s trust, there’s transparency, and he was never transparent, so trust never had time to grow. Not to mention that early on in our relationship he cheated on me -twice! But that’s another story…
So I found this book of poetry and a thank you note some chick had written him, and I recognized the name, and it was a woman that had gotten my spidey senses up a year before – and at that time, he claimed he hardly knew her.
Well, obviously he knew her and kept in touch with her, because here she was sending him a book of poetry and a thank you note for him helping her with a project – of which he never mentioned word one.
Was it catching him in bed with another woman? No. And in fact I emailed her and she told me there was nothing going on. It was just the continual guessing games that wore me out.
So I found this card, he was out doing an errand, and I packed up all my things and left. He saw me on the way out on the street and asked where I was going. I said ‘Louise?! Fuck you!’ (Louise was not her name but you get the point.)
That was it officially. Now, we continued to email back and forth for an eternity, and he continued to try and get me back, but by that time I was just utterly drained and couldn’t do it anymore, and he was not saying anything different, nothing I hadn’t heard a million times before, and did not seem to understand that even though he hadn’t been ‘caught’ cheating – that in a relationship you have to build some trust and that means sharing with your partner who your friends are and at least mentioning them once in awhile. I knew he would never be like that, and I pictured a lifetime of never feeling secure, and decided I was DONE. We had some other issues too, but this was a big one.
That was five years ago. I’m not going to say we went NC and that was it (in fact, we recently had a drink together and it was fine – I have no desire to get back with him but have always valued certain things he brings to the table, such as being able to make me laugh several times a day with funny emails). It no longer hurts me when he gets on my nerves or is insensitive, and I just assume he’s got a girlfriend, but since he’s Mr. Secretive, who the hell knows.
I will not say I’ve found The One since then, and that I’ve moved on to a loving, trusting relationship, I haven’t. But I am way more peaceful and happy than I ever was with him and I’ve done several things that I never would have been able to do with him, such as travel to places he never would have gone.
But I don’t get into 50 asinine arguments a day anymore, and that is worth its weight in gold.
Sorry, that was long!
Oh and I’ll just with this, because it’s short and practical and has served me well: My mantra is now everyone gets a second chance, no one gets a third.
The few times I have opted, for various reasons, to give someone a third chance, it’s astonishing how quickly they do the exact same thing that required a second chance in the first place.
Anyone can make one mistake – two of the same is much more likely to be a pattern. Go ahead and give the third chance if you must, but if the thing is done again, know without any doubt you are dealing with a chronic liar/cheater/drinker/klepto, whatever…
A great mantra Diane! I like your philosophy. Giving a second chance in many (not all) cases is reasonable, depending on the offense. I too have been given second chances in life and have been grateful for the open-hearted, generous people who gave me those chances. I believe in the possibility of growth and redemption. But I also believe in 100% personal responsibility and not making excuses for people (or allowing people to make excuses for themselves). You’re right – anyone can screw up once. Twice is bordering on a pattern. Three times and you’re definitely out.
Perfect timing for an excellent post. Having survived an abusive childhood then a 28 year marriage with a selfish controlling husband I found my voice and strength to stand on my own. Unfortunately I wasn’t as strong as I thought I was and fell for my high school first love who showed up in my life 3 months into my separation. He came with so much baggage that I put myself aside and tried to “help” him.
Fast forward 7 years ( yep – 7 years ) and I am a crippled mess. He still has his baggage as he never had any intention of fixing himself. These narcissistic cheating liars just like to tell a good sob story to gain synpathy and your time / help / sex etc… My night in shining armour was nothing more than a nightmare – of the worst kind. Physically, emotionally, verbally abusive along with the sleeping around.
Because I was still healing from the loss of my marriage (although not good it was still a 28 year union) and I did not want to commit to someone else – I didn’t feel I had the right to demand fidelity. Therefore he continued to see his ex for the first three years and several others over the remaining 4 years. He is a nasty alcoholic with no conscience or morals. I stopped being intimate with him over 3 years ago but remained his friend. Or should I say his ” Florence nightingale ” whom he continued to periodically verbally abuse and use.
Sure speaks volumes of my self esteem. I had convinced myself that I was a strong independent woman who could handle this. I was wrong. So wrong. I am an insecure woman with no boundaries and no self worth. I have allowed my past to dictate my future.
This post really hit home. I haven’t slept since reading it last night. I’ve been going over my life in my head and I am so disappointed with myself for robbing myself of so much.
In addition to my ex husband and my ex first love b.s. – last year I was further insulted to my core from my siblings insinuating that I was trying to get all of my parents inheritance by forgiving our parents and developing a new healthy relationship with boundaries. My relationship with them is almost non existent now – they’ve chosen to band together and oust me plus has had a ripple effect as their adult children and some of their friends plus extended family don’t give me the time of day anymore as well.
I’d like to add that my parents have changed immensely and are good kind people – in addition to being very healthy and not going anywhere anytime soon so I still don’t understand my siblings accusations! !
I know without a doubt that my insecurities from my past plus loniless and feeling worthless have contributed to my allowing this abusive ex remain in my life “just friends ” . The absolute horrible truth is he has had the privilege of having me as a “wife / girlfriend ” role in his life for seven years whilst I pretended I didn’t care and got less then crumbs in return.
I am so angry and disgusted with myself for allowing this to happen to myself. I am 52 years old and have raised three magnificent children on my own. I am a loyal , trusting , trustworthy, kind, caring, compassionate generous woman and I deserve better than what I’ve given myself.
Living in the past really does rob oneself of their future.
Thank you National for your brilliant insight and for sharing it with so many.
Wish me luck please as I go forward more educated and with my eyes wide open xo
Nat* not National ???? – darn auto correct grrrrrr
Wow. I was just feeling bad about being rejected by somebody who had “chosen” me, somebody I put up on a pedestal for ridiculous reasons largely to do with some past programming I thought I had unraveled and anyway clearly I had not. I felt flattered because I deemed him special and apparently not me and now that my emotions about this are not swirling and making me feel like I am some crazy lady I am kind of looking at it differently and saying, yes I am hurt but he is just a man like other men not fantasy unicorn man. A friend asked me about him the other day, I told her he ghosted on me and unicorns did not exist and I had to stop acting like a silly teenaged girl and she pionted out she got rejected by her unicorn ( I actually know the guy and ironically I was always like eh he is okay, I do not get it which tells you perception and the stories we tell ourselves are not often connected to what is really going on ) and ended up marrying a man she would have thought at that time was the goatman and she is pretty happy. I think for me it is about radically challenging my perceptions.
Are you trying to eff with my story, Natalie?! Dammit. I just had it edited and given an ISBN number and everything…. 😉
A tough post….. but it really helped me to take a step back and see a
hard truth in the eye. Yes, I’m “guilty” of being lonley and wanting to be special to someone- someone I made oh soooo special in my mind…. I spotted red flags along the way (6 years now…), but choose to find apologies (in his abusive childhood/ his abusive marriage etc.)
Now, finally owning this unflattering truth about myself surprisingly stopped my ongoing obsession with this EUM/ MM (lying to be divorced) returning childhood sweetheart… I hope this awareness will persist…
Thanks Natalie!
I dont know if any of you remember me talking about LD bagel man who i was talking with last year at this time until he told me he met someone locally and dropped me via email. i never responded to that email, and this week he emails me out of the blue, asking if i am still single and do i want to fly to his town to spend new years together, we have not met yet.
i was surprised to hear from him and he even appologized for not ending things over the phone instead of email. Yet, here he is emailing me again and not phoning! We talked on the phone for two months before he ended it and it took me months to get over him. now, he is back and i feel i cant trust him, i think he is lonely, its the holidays and why doesnt he phone me. it is hard for me to give a guy another chance when they hurt me. i understand if he met someone locally and obviously he was dating while we were talking for two months.
i dont know if i should give him a chance, i really thought we had so much in common and i liked him a lot more than i thought because it took me more months to get over him, we only talked for two and it took more than four months to let him go.
i replied to his email by saying i was surprised to hear from him, and that the holidays can bring this out. i also said it is strange to get an invitation to spend new years together when we havent spoken for a year! i told him i was sorry his relationship ended and wished him a merry xmas.
i havent heard back from him and my sense is that maybe he was feeling desperate and was only putting out a hook to see if i will bite. i dont believe he is serious. if he is serious, why doesnt he call me. i think he needs to put in more effort for me to believe him at all. when do we give someonea second chance? we didnt even meet.
Ugh. I’m so sorry you were the victim of what obviously was just a fishing expedition. God, people can be so incredibly thoughtless. Try to think of it as just a little bump on the road gave you a slight jolt, but now the bump is behind you and receding into the past. Where it belongs. No, no more chances for bagel man who doesn’t have the maturity or integrity to take care with your feelings. Fly out to see him for New Years? Huh? I can’t think of a more inappropriate suggestion. He can’t even be bothered to talk to you on the phone? If he was really interested, he would come to see you! He would make all those efforts and then some.
So I know this hurts. He has carelessly opened the wound that you took so long to heal. Asshole! Put him out of your mind, hon. He’s not worth any more suffering.
“my sense is that maybe he was feeling desperate and was only putting out a hook to see if i will bite. i dont believe he is serious.”
You know yourself. Trust your knowledge. Don’t respond to him. He already proved himself. He is feeling lonely now and needs a company for New Year.
Most importantly the man is no good. Love yourself and believe in yourself, whatever.
You did right by you.
If he contacts you again, then tell him HE could visit YOU when it is convenient for you, of course.
He is treating you like a last minute option because he thinks you have no options and will jumpr at a chance to see him. You do have options, the number one being to ignore him.
I have a question about emotionally unavailable people…do they always start conversations with lies about where they’ve been, how they’ve been busy, etc?
See, what I don’t understand about my EUP, is that he was honest and upfront after I am thisclose to leaving, unhappy over the hot and cold nature of our “friendship.” My gut was always screaming for me to leave, that this wasn’t normal. So I do, and he then apologizes to me, “if I felt hurt” because that wasn’t his intention. He’s not a good friend, he said. As a matter of fact, he called himself a bad friend on multiple occasions.
I know I’m not the only woman he said this to, as I saw for myself him comment on other women’s facebook pages, “sorry, I’m such a terrible friend!”
So, he’s upfront about what he can offer: not much of his time or attention. His other “friends” can understand him, why can’t I? He can be my friend if I don’t rush him (he bypasses every one of my concerns and generalizes). His other female “friends” are lucky if they see him 2-3x’s per year, if THEY are lucky (so now I feel lucky, because I’ve seen him 2x’s in 2 months). He offers that to me by ending it with “I’m all in, if you can HANDLE it. I’ll wait on your answer.”
So he’s upfront there and even a bit cold. I agree to that type of “friendship” and now feel guilty (I should be so lucky to see him as much as I do). When I agree to that friendship, he holds me off “no, no, don’t answer yet, because of everything I said.” I sink to my lowest level and beg him. “I have to go wash my hair” he says. I beg again. 5 minutes later, he replies with “sure.”
I hate even to write that nonsense.
So, why if he can be so honest there when I’m about to leave, does he give white-lies every time I text him a hello?
He lies about why he has to leave a texting conversation. He lies about where he has to go. He lies about where he’s been or why he hasn’t been available. They are small, white lies that he contradicts himself on later, but I don’t understand it. I feel stupid and silly when I catch him in a lie.
Why does he do it?
If he can be honest and upfront when I’m leaving, why use the white lies as excuses? Especially when I’m not even asking you that?!
The last time I text him to say hi (which isn’t very often, maybe once every 3 weeks to a month), he responds with excuses as to why he hasn’t been on facebook. Huh? I didn’t ask you why you hadn’t been on facebook, I said hello and asked how your weekend was, and the slap in the face is that he had been on facebook (like you hadn’t been on facebook in 3 weeks)! Why lie? Does he believe in his own lies?
He’s now giving me the silent treatment. He’s not talking to me because I cancelled an upcoming hang-out that we had scheduled (he makes me wait 4-5 weeks to hang out) and told him to hit me up when he has time for a traditional “friendship” (he knows I have feelings for him, as I’ve been very honest about where I’m at). I poked fun at his excuses for not being on facebook, to try and give him a hint to stop.
His response? Not a word, besides unfriending me on facebook (but not blocking me), sending my facebook message to spam, and ignoring my email. I figured he would do that.
My main question is, why lie? I’ve read that EUP’s lie to avoid confrontation and to control the situation, but is that the only reason(s)? He was upfront about being a bad friend (almost like a warning that if I get hurt, it’s all my fault) and everything else, so it contradicts the white lies he gives when I just say hello.
What a crappy situation that I never thought I’d be involved in!
Sonia, this sounds familiar in that the terms and conditions are spelled out – he’s a terrible friend (and lover?) and will pick you up and drop you when he feels like it. This means he can say he’s honest, straight up and the rest of it, and when things go wrong, it’s always because you wanted more from him than he’s prepared to give.
Why not stop right there? Do you want this kind of friendship, which leaves you lonely and wanting?
Just about everything else he’s telling you is what he thinks you want to hear, whatever will make you tick, and has no substance. That’s partly why this kind of person is so magnetic – genuineness doesn’t have that instant appeal and takes a bit more work to build a friendship. That’s why he has his collection of women ‘friends’ on and off facebook (is this a harem?) who try to be the exception and believe they have something special. It’s about his ego (being needed and wanted) and to some extent, theirs and yours. You ARE special, but you’re never going to use your special qualities or prove them by being involved with this man. In fact you’ve been competing with other women and that brings out the worst in you.
Well done for standing up to him, can that be the end of it? It would be the most dignified ending you can get out of something like this, and a fresh new year to take care of yourself.
Thank you happy b. Yes, I felt like I exerted some power back, some control, and while in my heart of hearts I knew he’d leave, I was still shocked that he did so and so callously and passive aggressively.
Then again he always did things passive aggressively with me. Moved like a turtle on purpose, always had me waiting, etc.
Maybe I should block him on Facebook as well. I don’t understand why you leave me unblocked on facebook, leave all avenues of communication open, then not respond and do all that he’s doing. I’m sure he’s read my email and facebook message. Do they enjoy the desperation?
I guess I’m here because I want to understand. Also, it’s hard for me to see him in that manipulative light, because sadly, what does that say about me for having feelings for someone like that?
I feel like I’m throwing a pity party for one.
Thanks Sonia, he clearly wasn’t emotionally invested (Wiser is so right). And that’s because of who he is, not anything to do with you. But despite his disclaimers, he clearly got you emotionally invested by engaging with you on a very personal, intimate level. That is deeply dishonest, one big lie.
I know how much it hurts and what the regret feels like. Please be kind and compassionate with yourself, it has taken a lot of strength to see the problem and you will feel liberated and learn from it. I quit facebook, finding it a toxic waste of my time when I went through this, but others have the willpower to use whatever filtering etc. there is. Just think about what nurtures/works for you, and what doesn’t. I think part of the problem of these painful involvements is that we don’t know what our needs are and get stuck in what Natalie calls an ‘uncomfortable comfort zone’. Be gentle with yourself and when you feel distressed, stop and think about what you’d say to a child you really care about if they had a similar problem.
People lie when it is to their advantage to lie. Sometimes people, like this guy, when they otherwise have no character, no morals, and no integrity, will tell the truth – but only again, because it is to their advantage. Yes, this guy was “truthful” when he said he was a bad friend. This was his “out” for ever having to treat you well in the future and for making sure you will accept crappy treatment and lies (“I told her what I was like, so it’s not my fault if she gets hurt”). Bottom line is… he is a liar. Even this “truth” is a kind of manipulative lie, meant to control and confuse you, and it should have you running, not walking, in the opposite direction as fast as you can. The question is not, why does this guy lie? The question is – why in the world would you want a creepy manipulator like this in your life on any level, who clearly, CLEARLY, does not care about you in the least??????????????
You are completely right. Why can’t I see that? He had me thinking it was me…the rest of his “friends” understand him, why couldn’t I? (he said). He’d be a friend to me, if I could HANDLE it. Then those little white lies that made me feel stupid.
The only interest he showed is when I was leaving. I thought this was because he cared, but then he always went back to those ways. Why drag me back in it, if you don’t care?
One time he admitted that if I sent him a facebook message, he would first check to see if I unfriended him on facebook to make sure…huh? Why do that if you don’t care?
Is it all about control?
He doled out his attention to me, so when I saw him that one hour a month, I’d forget all about the past and be fawning over him. Then right back to that and as soon as I say “hello”, there he goes again with the little white lies. Ugh.
He said he’d check to see if you unfriended him on Facebook before reading any message(s) from you because he wants to know where he stands with you before reading (or deciding NOT to read) any message(s) from you.
If he ever contacts you again, YOU tell HIM (at that moment, when he calls you–not in an email/text/FB message–only when you are in a real, live conversation with him), “We’re both seeing other people; right? Why label anything as “friends” or “not friends”–we’re both seeing other people–at least I am, and I hope you are, too. Later.”
Thanks everyone who commented on bagel man.
He did call today, says he understands that I want to talk on the phone. Seriously find this tough, especially with online dating. He said he is going on an unexpected holiday for a couple days. I cant help but wonder if he got some other woman to spend some time with him, and he will call me Wednesday evening if I want. Part of me wants to give him a piece of my mind, but those things tend to backfire on me and somehow I end up looking like the bad guy. maybe i should write it down in an email. I feel like my feelings are being played with, and I wonder, what should it look like? What would he have to do to prove he is serious, and can I even use the word serious if we havent met yet?
It seems to me that any kind of budding relationship that has this much angst – before you’ve even met! – is simply not meant to be. I know you hold out a little hope that maybe this frog has the potential to become a prince. From what you’ve written, this is highly doubtful. What to do now? Either you will let this go and put it into the past, or you will stick your toe in again to see what happens. Sometimes, despite all the advice you get, you have to “suck it and see.” It all depends on how much pain you are willing to endure if it goes sour, because being ill-treated and discarded twice is even worse than being ill-treated and discarded once. It’s a risk, definitely. It seems to me that his actions show that he does not care about you, and this is just a fishing expedition. What does your gut tell you?
have to add that he left a voicemail, so he called, but i didnt talk to him
Did you have a missed call on your phone?
wiser
I went back to some of our coversations and we have so much in common with values and world view, it seemed like an ideal match, we talked for hours and I havent experienced that much compatability with any guy before. even though he has said he is attracted to me via photo since we havent met yet, he did tell me in conversation that he is attracted to Asian women, I am not Asian, so that triggers my insecurity button, and that alone would be enough for me to retreat, as I would fear he would be looking for his type. he is 12years older than me too, so go figure. my sense is to tell him that if he is really interested in meeting me, he can visit me, plus there are a lot of Asian women where i live, so he may fall in love ten times before he gets to my door!
I am having a hard time making decisions these days, so if he calls i will talk to him, tell him how i feel and felt about him in past
I dont know anymore, i am feeling so vulnerable these days, the holidays were not easy, i decided not to visit my family for fear of being triggered. I seem to be very sensitive these days and the most recent LD Guy who visited me in november didnt even wish me a merry christmas, i am still grieving him being gone.
Its a lot, so I dont even have the strength to fight for myself.
Whatever, since you are feeling so vulnerable at the moment, I am even more concerned with you having enough resilience to try to go another round with this guy. Having what seems like compatibility over the phone is not necessarily a good indication of what he is REALLY like, in real life, in real situations that involve effort, and cost, and following through, and acting honorably, and taking care with your feelings, and all the things that go into real interactions with people. Forget about what he said on the phone and focus on what he DID, because that is a true reflection of his “values”: drop you via email because he met someone else instead of doing the right, but difficult, thing of telling you in a real conversation (shows he is a coward); sends you an email a year later and wants to know if you’re still single and if you’ll fly to see him (shows he is lazy and self-centered and a person who is capable of suggesting such an inappropriate thing to you).
Granted, since you had not even met, you had no relationship to speak of and he was under no obligation to meet any of your expectations. He is free to change his mind, choose someone else, do whatever he wants. This is the minefield of dating, which is not for the faint of heart. Doesn’t mean the people involved are necessarily jerks – the risk of disappointment and hurt are par for the course.
But in your case, I think he is a jerk, and as Sofia said “the man is no good.” He showed his true colors by throwing out a hook and seeing if you’d bite – and why? Because he’s lonely and needs a date for New Years. And because of his actions, which I described above. If he does call, and you do talk to him, try to listen to what he has to say through the filter of “does this person really have the values I want in a partner? Do his actions reflect this? What is he actually offering me?”
Whatever, I’ve been reading your posts…wondering why are you trying to make “something” out of “nothing”…. and I think you answered that question here – I am feeling so vulnerable these days, the holidays were not easy, i decided not to visit my family for fear of being triggered. I seem to be very sensitive these days and the most recent LD Guy who visited me in november didnt even wish me a merry christmas, i am still grieving him being gone. Its a lot, so I dont even have the strength to fight for myself.
You’re wanting someone to swoop in and show a desire for you, a desire to be a part of your life, to save you from crushing loneliness, and this bagel guy’s timing happened to coincide with a point where you are feeling incredibly alone, and your internal pain wants to cast bagel guy in the role of The Man Who Saved Me.
Do me a favor, although…nix that… you don’t know me or owe me. On second thought…do YOURSELF a favor. Do not contact this guy ever again. He is offering nothing but pain. When a guy wants you, he makes it clear. This guy is window-shopping, looking for a woman to kill time with. IMO, this is not a “suck it and see” moment. When a guy tells you he prefers a “type” that you aren’t, your self-esteem should be screaming at you to Move On, there is nothing for you here. Not saying people don’t fall in love with folks that weren’t necessarily their “type”. Lots of people fall for folks that aren’t what they thought their “type” was….but it happens organically, in the moments of increasing time spent together. What he did was issue himself a Teflon card. He’ll send you crumbs, make you feel less than, until you decide to have sex with him to validate yourself, then he will disappear, and one day send you a text saying “Well I did tell you I like another type”.
Please steer clear of this man. Do other things. I find listening to podcasts is becoming a fun past time for me. It’s like the new “old time radio”. In addition to Natalie, I choose comedians and self-esteem-builder type podcasts. I find podcasts quiet my mind moreso than TV. Begin your quest to find out what makes “Whatever” feel at peace. Maybe you need a good cry. Maybe journaling. Let go of anything that causes you anxiety. Mentally let it go.
wiser, elgie
thank you for your comments. i have been going over to
conversations i had with the last ld guy and i miss him a lot too. I want to talk to him again, i dont know, maybe i am in love with him.
i was so rough with him and he was so patient and sweet.
then he came here and it was hard on both of us. i miss him.
i just went out on a date with a guy who kept putting himself down and i felt needy even with him. i am a mess, i think you said it right elgie, its crushing loneliness that i feel.
l dont know how to deal with this. i cant wait to go back to work, so i can take my mind off of all of this doom and gloom of relationship. the worst is that this guy tonight couldnt believe that i never married, he said i am too beautiful and that i must not have wanted it. the sad part is that i always wanted it and could never hook up with the right guy, but these guys blame me for it. it is so sad and i am so lonely and i dont know what to do anymore. i am desperate and fu**** bored with my life
Whatever, I completely agree with Elgie on this one. You are in no state to be dating anyone, let alone opening yourself to more hurt with Mr. Window Shopping-Bagel Guy. Being desperate, bored, lonely, and a “mess” is a signal to focus on YOURSELF and not look to others to save you or validate you. This. Does. Not. Work. It’s also not fair to men you date who want to be wanted for their own qualities, and not “used” by someone who needs to alleviate her own uncomfortable feelings. You don’t want to use anyone, do you? So please, take a break. Being in a relationship is not the answer to boredom and loneliness. Grabbing onto someone because you feel desperate is hurtful to the other person, and of course hurtful to yourself. I think you would greatly benefit from talking to someone about this. You need to learn techniques of self-care and self-soothing so that you can get what you need from yourself (the only authentic source there is) in times of emotional crisis. As my therapist said to me over and over and over whenever I was in an anxious and miserable mess “And how are you taking care of yourself during this time?”
That’s the question you need to ask yourself and focus on ways to answer it.
wiser
you are right. he didnt even call tonight. after he left the vm and email, saying he wants to call wednesday evening. i didnt respond, then he emailed since he hasnt heard back from me, he assumes we wont be talking. i emailed back and said i assumed he would call and that i was around early evening. not only did he nit email back he didnt call or email at all, not even to say wont be calling.
i dont know what happened to him, but he is certainly proving to be unreliable. i mean he wanted me back and now he is acting like a hurt boy. i wouldnt be able to handle this guy.
so, i guess it ended itself. i think i need to email him to tell him im not interested in any further contact. i need to do that for myself to make it clear and to end it, so there will be no future emails next year. i tend to keep things open ended and in this case, i think he did it again.
i need to do the same with the other ld guy that visited me. i was letting go, then he emailed and then i got caught up emotionally and emailed him a few nights ago telling him i missed our phone calls. he also has not responded.
yeah, i better take a break from dating. l feel better, but still vulnerable. so i better write the closure email before i chicken out.
@Whatever,
You say you feel bored, lonely, confused. Me too. I’m living through it. My confusion now is wondering if I’ve been *BE-ing* wrong. I read about healing and mindfulness and I’m confused about non-attachment. Isn’t attachment natural and human or have I been *DO-ing life* wrong? There’s my confusion.
But also, I’ve been slowing, eliminating, and minimizing. Canceled online dating in May/June. I’ve had no dates or anyone interested at all IRL either. I didn’t do Thanksgiving. Or Christmas Eve. I stayed alone. And tonight I’m doing the same. Ive thrown away and given away (so much stuff). I’ve stayed off fb. No tv. I’ve avoided social events where I anticipate discomfort. I will admit that I think I’m developing (social?) anxiety or something. Being in stores has bothered/ triggered me. I’ve NEVER felt like this in my life, so not sure what is happening. I’ve stopped communicating with my two closest friends and only sister, acknowledging that there is significant pain on my part that I’ve been carrying.
I am trying to find out what is DEEPLY important to me. What and who can I do without? The whole non-attachment and impermanence of everything Buddhist thinking has me confused, yet all the meditation info seems to point in this direction.
What I’ve always known to be true for myself, that I value my closest relationships above all else, continues to hold true. My self worth is low right now, but I KNOW this. Like many people I think I’ve questioned it over the years.. In a moment, or for a day or two. But never before have I felt like a POS for over a year. But I’m being alone. Uncomfortably alone. Small projects, cleaning out, reading, and I still don’t have it together. I don’t. Not yet. I still cry each day. I am still grieving (abnormally I know) what I consider to be my loss. I cannot ask my friends to help me anymore. I’m doing it alone because I have destroyed my support systems, and I think that’s why I’ve come back to BR.
Anyhow Whatever, of course you feel bored and lonely. Life can be disappointing. It is. But guys that are wrong for you can NOT fix those feelings. They will distract you, but the feelings will return. I still don’t know how to “do it right” but I have stopped doing things that feel hurtful. My inner critic is horribly judgmental and mean right now and anything that will feed those negative thoughts has a free pass to strengthen that view: Exclusion, rejection, aloneness, comments on here, ruminating…
I am sorry that you’re hurting. I admire everyone here with the strength to feel good, worthy, lovable even in the absence of external validation. I’ve lost that, but every day, even when I don’t want to, I try to look good on the outside. That’s for me and from me. Please don’t look to these wrong men to make you feel better.
say something
i get where you r at. i too have lost a number of friendships and support system and tried the alone thing. it never feels right. some days i can connect, but i feel that its not natural to be by yourself. this was confirmed on xmas eve for me when i spent time with my friend and her husband and community, and it felt so right to be with these people, they were all married with kids and a few single moms, but it was so supportive and good. this sense of community and belonging is what my soul wants. i do not want to learn to be alone, i have been doing it, but it is tolerating it. some days of course its fine and even desired, but i never wanted to make a lifestyle of it.
true, the wrong cant fix anything, and many times you dont know for sure if someone is wrong until you try, and i have tried many times. and maybe there is a danger in doing that because u see too much and this may have confused me, maybe less is more. too late for that now. i dont know what the answer is, other than loving yourself, but that doesnt include living like a hermit, i think thats punishing the self if you dont willingly choose it. some people do choose and love it. i don not, im an extrovert for heaven sakes, i need people. but my lifestyle doesnt seem to account for this and i often feel desperate when its gone on too long.
i tried buddhism, even did a 10 day silent retreat, which i highly recommend, but detachment does not mean, detaching from people and humanity, that could be a recipe for depression, not detachment.
i suffer from this too, and could see this possible misunderstanding
anyway, that guy did email me and said our wires were crossed, this feels ver familiar to what happened last year, now he says he will call on saturday, why not new years day, he did exactly same thing last year. i better write that closure email before i end up buying a plane ticket to go see him. yet i still scared and reluctant to end things! what is going on with me. i am suffering from anxiety with this and family stuff too.
Hi Whatever,
How great that you had a positive Christmas Eve! I do not welcome so much aloneness either, but I force myself to endure it. I NEVER thought I would live this way. It feels wrong. But it’s happening. In thinking back to 2015… I cannot recall even one day when one friend even asked me to go to lunch. Maybe my whole life I was doing all the work? Perhaps I was the needy one? I know I appeared needy in 2014-2015. Not a desirable trait. So I just stopped calling and asking. Enter… Aloneness.
Do you really need to write a closure email? Maybe you already did. Someone that returned after a year’s silence seems shady. And the other one… That visited… did NOT make you happy, you were stressed. But the silence seems more stressful, thus anxiety. Maybe your closure letter will reduce that anxiety. Are you worried what you will say if he DOES call tomorrow! He doesn’t seem like he’s worth a plane ticket. Don’t you wonder who he all of a sudden made plans with? Don’t even wonder. I hope you resolve your bagel guy and wet newspaper man issues. It sounds like you are wishing that they are different from how they’ve shown themselves to be.
I too have a family issue I’d like to scream to a friend about. But I can’t. I just have to tell myself that it’s an unfortunate situation that I do not have to involve myself in. No rescuing. No intervening. $hit’s going to happen. It sucks but not my fault.
Please take care. No plane ticket needed!
I have some questions, that maybe you some of you much more wiser ladies might clue me in on:
DO THEY ALWAYS DRAG YOU BACK INTO IT, WHEN YOU’RE ABOUT TO LEAVE? My EUM was never really interested in me besides when I was walking out of the door. He never made any effort other than right at that point. Then he’d make excuses that he didn’t have much time and go right back to ignoring me.
DO THEY MIMIC AND MIRROR YOU? My EUM, aside from our very first communication via facebook messaging, was never himself. He took on my speech patterns, my slang, my tone, and sometimes my exact verbiage. I’ve never seen anything like it. In his first facebook message, he was all about being a born-again Christian, God, his family, etc. The subsequent messages never had that tone again. He took my tone on, adapted to my personality, used my wording (exactly) back at me. Or is this merely someone who doesn’t have his own personality?
DO THEY ALWAYS TRY AND FLATTER YOU BACK? My EUM would, after I would compliment him, try and compliment me back in the same way. It was awkward and I could tell it was forced (you know when someone is being sincere). It was like tit-for-tat. Okay, she complimented me, now I must pay that in kind. I didn’t like it, felt it was forced and unnecessary, and mainly, insincere. I would have much rather preferred him not to respond in the like.
ARE THEY ALWAYS WARY AND STEER CLEAR OF EMOTIONS? When I walk away from my EUM and he turns the tables around on me, making me feel like I’m the one who can’t handle it, I freaking apologize to him (yes, that is how sad I am at this point) for walking away and promise that next time, I’ll talk to him about any concerns. We’re leaving the movies at this point- with people around us- and he lowers his voice and says through practically gnashed teeth, “You. Need. To. Stop. Apologizing! Ugh!” and then he shakes his head like he’s shaking it off, his voice completely goes back to normal and he asks how my weekend was.
DO THEY TAKE ON YOUR TRAITS? When I first met him, during our first hang-out, I asked him if he had hung-out with a lot of people from his work. He looked offended and said, “no! do you?” and I said of course I did, because quite frankly, how offended he looked kinda shocked me. The very next week, he begins to friend women (and men) at his work. He admits to me that he went straight home to view this woman’s profile. I became very jealous because after 5 years at his place of work and not befriending anyone there, he friends people only a week after meeting me. Also, since he says he doesn’t do facebook very often, I become jealous when I hear that he goes straight home to view their profile.
DO THEY ALWAYS LACK EMPATHY OR BLAME YOU FOR YOUR PAIN?
He warned me upfront that he was a bad friend. At one point when I’m walking away, he reveals through- what I now think of as a veiled threat- that he’s had to expel a group of friends just the year before…although he won’t say what they did…so I feel like I have to behave too, unless I want to become one of them. So, any pain that I’m experiencing now, I’m sure he blames me for and doesn’t point the finger at himself a bit (and all I’ve been doing is beating myself up for the mistakes I made) because he did warn me. Also, one time he picks me up from the dentist as a big favor to me (he reacted like I was proposing marriage when I’m asking for this favor) after I get some work done and need a ride home. When I get in the car, he can tell that I’m in pain and asked me what happened. I said that the dentist offered me more pain meds, but he would have had to stop what he was doing so I declined them in favor of getting the procedure over with. In a condescending tone he says “well, he did offer you more pain meds, so that’s your fault.” I remember thinking “WTF, I’m not even complaining about it, you asked ME.”
I’m sure there are more things I’ll remember and more questions to be asked. I guess I just want to understand. Then maybe when I do, I’ll want to understand myself as to why I stayed in this for the months that I did.
Selfish Piece of Sh*t.
RUN!
Ditto (nothing more needs to be said…)