An issue that becomes so evident when talking to people who are struggling in a relationship or who’ve been through a series of painful relationships, is that loving themselves and being in a relationship are seen as mutually exclusive. Now, sometimes that’s due to the relationship, and so the issues have a knock-on effect on their self-esteem. Equally, though, it can be the result of giving themselves up no matter who they’re with.
Whether we’ve lost ourselves as a direct result of a relationship or because we give ourselves up in the pursuit of love in general, it’s a problem. It results in confusion about whether to stay or go because we’re unable to distinguish the relationship from our self-worth. It’s a source of external esteem as well as pain thanks to the feels, thoughts and actions tied up in our mentality.
The seeming sole source of our happiness paradoxically becomes the sole source of our pain.
It is possible for us to be in a relationship and love ourselves at the same time.
In this kind of relationship we can have love for another without diminishing ourselves in the process. We experience love that flows and grows between two people. This is utterly different to it being about one party having something we want to ‘get’ or ‘earn’ from them. We will no longer call anxiety, angst, precariousness, worthlessness, uncertainty, turmoil and other such feelings that become the norm in a relationship where we don’t feel good about ourselves “love”.
When we don’t love ourselves in relationships, we’re caught between a codependent rock and a hard place. We either don’t know whether to stay or fold, or we do but don’t have the personal security to back ourselves.
We remove our options. Our possibilities appear to rest upon someone else or at the very least, the social and personal currency that we derive from being in a relationship.
A great litmus test for understanding whether something is our responsibility is to look at whether the efforts we throw at it make a positive difference over time.
If nothing happens or we experience temporary change and then it reverts to the typical pattern, halt. Whatever we’re trying to influence or control, is not our responsibility or within our control. It’s why twisting ourselves into a pretzel to ‘make’ someone become available, is a waste of time.
To get grounded in any relationship where you feel lost and in pain, evaluate whether loving yourself is possible. This tells you what your options are and how much you can influence your happiness and quality of life.
Ask yourself: Is there a way that I could love myself and be in the relationship too?
If your relationship relies on you having little/no boundaries, minimal self-esteem, and it lacking equanimity and equality, halt. Loving yourself isn’t going to be possible in the relationship. And that means it’s time to opt out.
If on examination, it becomes clear that while there are issues, it’s possible for you to grow in the relationship so that it could accommodate a healthier sense of self, you know you can continue. You know that aside from taking responsibility for yourself and so investing in being a loving partner, that your partner isn’t threatened by your growth. They’re also not reliant on profiting from you remaining in an uncomfortable comfort zone.
If it’s a choice between loving you or loving them, always choose you. The truth is, the person who genuinely loves you doesn’t need you to sacrifice yourself for them. They couldn’t comfortably sit by and watch you lose emotional, mental, physical, spiritual or even financial ground ‘for them’. There won’t be a need for you to become isolated from your family, friends etc. And you won’t need to walk around with a cloud of shame hanging over your head.
If there’s a way that you can love yourself in the relationship you’re in, there’s nothing stopping you.
Start somewhere, start anywhere but start, and then keep trying.
The time, energy, effort and emotion that you want to throw their way to fill you up, save it for you.
What you do for them, do for you. At least then you will know that you’re really loving them. You will know that you’re not trying to catch self-worth or attempting to ‘earn’ it through torment.
Yes, it will feel difficult initially because it’s a switch from using the relationship as your reference point, but it’s a very worthy investment. You will live and love better because you know where you end and they begin. It’s the end of codependency.
There is always a way that you can love yourself more. If someone is blocking your efforts, it’s the message you need that it’s time to choose you.
Your thoughts?
Add to favorites
I finally chose myself after spending 20+ years in the same EU relationship with various forms of assclown, douche bags who all had some addiction issue. I laid on my bedroom floor in the fetal position in utter pain after I ended my very last toxic relationship almost 1 year ago. I realized the pain stemmed from me having to perform an exorcism on myself. I had to unlearn years and years of unhealthy thoughts, habits, and behaviors. I picked myself up off the floor and committed to loving and valuing myself.
I found BR, went to therapy, did 100 days of Self Esteem, wrote unsent letters, and journaled everyday. I have maintained absolutely no contact with the last EUM. I exercise at least 5 days a week. I just completed a prenatal yoga instructor workshop and plan to continue and finish the 200 hour training to become a yoga instructor. I will be traveling to Ecuador in April for 4 day of intense hiking where I will summit 18,000+ feet. Except for the guided hike, I am traveling alone.
Some days I win, some days I don’t. It is very difficult to retrain your brain when thought patterns have become so engrained. I do try and acknowledge the progress I have made. I have blocked toxic people in my life. I have not attempted dating as of yet. I am listening to my gut and it is telling me I’m not ready. I am still working on me, still trying to figure out who I am.
One of my favorite quotes:
“Maybe the journey isn’t so much about becoming anything. Maybe it’s about unbecoming everything that isn’t really you, so you can be who you were meant to be in the first place.”
I think that quote is fitting for most of us here on BR.
Be well!
Dear CLR,
you sound so strong, so determined. I read your post with admiration and I just want to say: keep going strong. It’s hard, I know. “Unbecoming” who you once were is to me an enormous challenge – but so much worth the struggle. Best wishes!
CLR
Hi from the UK, iv woken up on a cold, drizzly morning and reading your post was truly inspiring.
May I wish you continued strength and happiness on the road ahead, I dont know how far behind I would be now 3 years on without good friends and BR.
Hugs x
Thank you, Mir and Catwestfield. Your words of encouragement are greatly appreciated. “Unbecoming” my former self has been one the hardest things I have ever done (I have 3 boys and a masters degree and this has still been harder!). But you are right, the struggle is so worth it because I am worth it. I do have a pretty good life surrounded by great children and supportive friends and family. I have much to be grateful for.
Love your quote, and how you have lifted yourself up and moved on. I have been working hard on loving myself as well. It’s eye opening to say the least.
Thank you, Rewind. It is eye opening, isn’t it? Some days I feel I really have a handle on things and other days are a struggle when old thought patterns creep in. But I am committed to treating myself with love, care, trust, and respect.
Hugs
Hello Natalie and blog visitors:
Once again, another “spot ” and laser sharp commentary by Ms. Lue. My encounter and entanglement with an “Assclown” was brief (3 1/2 months). However, it was long enough to result in damage. -Feel a little ashamed of myself that I even fell for this person. Considerably younger than I am yet very astute at his Narcissistic game. We both agreed that we should end things, but not before he dished out the proverbial “Narcissistic discard”. It was quite bizarre and cowardly on his part and I told him so. More to the point, BR mentioned “loving oneself. That is what I struggled to do in this instance. The moment I delayed in responding to his text message and spent time doing something for me – he became jeaolous and went into a “rant” and rage. He fabricated a conflict and accused me of things that sounded more like he was mirroring himself (projecting) and sounded like traits or actions of others in his life (displacing). Although hurtful, his bizarre reaction allowed me to see another side of him. In other words, his mask came off. The discard was a blessing in disguise for me because anymore time spent with this Narc “assclown” would have been damaging and more time wasted. Explains why I felt nauseated. Ladies … don’t ignore the “red flags”. ZW.
*sigh* This is a hard one to comment on with precision and clarity. The premise(s) of what Nat is saying seem(s) obvious: Love yourself! At all times! Don’t trade self-love for another person’s (read: EU assclown) proxy for love!
Seems obvious/simple, right? But it ain’t. It’s the reasons why that I feel are less precise and clear — perhaps these things vary person-to-person based on experience(s). Although we can all share, bond and relate over similar reasons, maybe each person’s diminishing of self (at times, or, like, all the time) for another differs.
For me. . .I would say just in general, most men are very ego-centered, even egotistical. Like, it’s all about them in one way or another, and let’s call that love, shall we? Some, the unhealthy ones, will act to preserve that ego at all costs– which means they cannot grow when their egos are challenged, say, if we disagree with them on something or want something from them/our needs met in a way they are not inclined — but of course, won’t speak about.
Conversely, most women in general are inclined to be giving — or at a minimum *expected* to be so. This preternatural “nurturing” nature becomes unhealthy when the giving relative to self-love becomes unbalanced. It is this imbalance that can feed the man’s/person’s ego — again, this is unhealthy.
For example — I wrote about this situation several topics ago — but in summary, right around the new year I met a guy casually who very quickly turned out to be batsh*t crazy, if not outright dangerous. Seriously, his behaviour went from “Nice to meet you, let’s hang out!” to “In order to hang out, please show I can control you.” Rather quickly, I might add.
I mean, the disagreement we had was over something seemingly small — relative to hanging out, in fact! But once I showed I had — I dunno, self preservation, self LOVING tendencies, this man tried *all sorts of tactics* to try to get me to fold. It was WEIRD. But the thing is? It was SO subtle! He tried to act “so nice” — “Awww, I didn’t mean to upset you, I’m a nice guy. . .are you feeling apprehensive? I’m sorry, I’m really just a nice guy.” It’s like, if you have to tell me, well. . .Had I not been aware. . .who knows. At a minimum, inconvenienced/irritated, at a maximum, probably heartbroken or even endangered in some way.
Pretty recently, like about a few days ago, the guy tried to “get” me/”suck me in” with *yet another* tactic. It’s like, really? Really now, dude? Still trying? Wow.
I went ahead and reinforced the boundaries I had set earlier regarding the possibility of “hanging out,” plus gave an update on all the things I’d been doing since we last spoke. This is all via text, btw. . .he had called and left a message which nope! Wasn’t gonna answer, wasn’t gonna call back.
Ohhh, you know that got the silent treatment, crickets, right? Yasssssss.
I think a key question to ask ourselves in any “relationship” with anybody, particularly a new person is, if this person were to leave, suddenly, with little to no explanation, what is the extent to which I would give a flip? Do I feel like they can come and go freely, or do I feel like I’d be grabbing at their coattails while they head for the door out my life?
If the thought or actuality of someone’s exit elicits a grabby feeling, I’d say yeah, some self love is in order, if not overdue. A tendency to hang on to something/someone that is bad for us is not good and needs examination and correction — I think that’s what Nat is getting at, although she did not say it directly — that’s what I got out of what she is saying.
With these EU types, very often they give you little crumbs, tastes of good behavior at the beginning and then flip the script — there is no consistency. The good stuff was there just to hook us in. Once that’s done, we go into pleasing mode, trying to get things “back to where they were.” When really? It was never going to be good with them in the first place.
That’s something I learned dealing with the guy I mentioned — over the course of a month. That’s a long time for something to play out, if you really think about it — but I’m glad that month wasn’t times 12, or longer. So, the deal with these guys/people is — the situation that is bad at it’s core is not “different” incidents — if you look carefully, it’s probably variations of the same issue (emotional unavailability, controlling, etc.) probably there early, but we missed it because we got “hooked in.” Self love prevents the hooks from hooking, I think!
It’s really weird how NML one more time reads my mind and writes something extremely pertinent to what I have been feeling!
Recently, I was completely in love with a woman who quite frankly has nothing to offer to me. The reason why I had such feelings is because I felt sexually attracted to her, and I equate this to love. As an asexual, it means a lot to me to be able to feel this kind of thing towards someone. Anyway, with time passing, things weren’t as great and her very typical EU behavior was really getting to me, but I turned a blind eye. As an example, one day she offered me tea, I accepted it, she went on, boiled water, did her own tea, and went sit down and started working… while I was still there wondering what the heck had just happened. I had to go and do my own tea… which I did just to make a point (and no, she never said a word about it). Needless to say, when I didn’t serve any purpose for her anymore, she disengaged without any explanation through passive-aggressive behavior. First time she did it I was apprehensive, second time, I just vowed myself to do the best I can to move on from this thing. I don’t even have any positive feelings for her anymore (even though this one is hard to admit to myself).
What I learned from all of this, is that I am finally developing some self-love! And exactly what NML mentions here… you can love yourself and have a relationship. I mean, I haven’t had the relationship part yet, but I can just say that someone with self-love would not engage in bad situations for long because they’d be able to recognize the situations for what it is, and if it’s bad, just leave.
I don’t know for other people though, but my biggest struggle in learning self-love is my ego. Although I recognize that this person is bad for me, I have SUCH A HARD TIME just simply leaving, because it triggers me all the feelings from childhood emotional abuse and bullying, such as feeling a loser, invisible, not accepted, not wanted, overall just feeling like I would like to win, just one time, I would want someone that I consider to be great to like me, validate me, which of course won’t happen. When I was a kid my mom would tell me no one else other than her would ever want to put up with me and my grandmother always said that I wasn’t wanted and no one would ever want me. It was such a nasty surprise as an adult to turn out to be a gay asexual which pretty much means the dating pool is extremely limited. It is almost like who I am validates what ma/grandma said to me when I was little.
Right now I am doing my best to move on. I am still struggling… I just hope one day, with or without a partner, I will be able to find my own peace and have so much self-love that these assclowns will be flushed before they even open their mouth to say hi.
The transition from seeking love externally to self-love is tricky because you don’t notice the exact moment when it kicks in. But one day, circumstances will compel you to make a decision that’s best for you, not for the emotional vampire.
I wish you well in your journey–you’ll get there; let it take its own pace. Just agree to move in that direction.
P.S. The bitch should have made your tea when she made hers.
🙂
Thanks for answering me 🙂
I agree that there isn’t a definite moment when you don’t love yourself and then you do (like a light switch) but I would say that it’s gradual! I feel so proud of myself to at least recognize shitty situations faster than I would, and even prouder to recognize that what I feel is mostly reflections of my past, and not something I should agonize for. I am also trying to be more compassionate to myself, because I am very impatient and want to change things super fast. It is slow, though…
PS. I totally know she should have made the friggin tea. I don’t even like tea, but I just accepted the offer because I wanted to see how it was gonna go… She had done this before (offer something and then pretend it never happened), but I thought I hadn’t been clear enough on the “yes or no” on the previous situation, so this time I said a very clear yes and waited for it… nope, she has no shame! Anyway, I didn’t think it was worth to make yet another point (we had arguments over some stuff earlier that evening) but I decided I wasn’t gonna just sit quiet and pretend nothing happened yet again.
Hi ladies
As some of you may have read, I’m currently reeling from a situation where my on/off EU, who I found out was actually a complete AC for probably two years where he was playing me and the mother of his child. Only found out about him being back with this woman the day after he married her……….three days after he was asking me to meet him at a hotel for the night.
Anyway, since this revelation and my initial devastation, the only thing I really want to do is learn to love myself. It’s clear I did not even like myself a little bit, let alone love myself. I’ve always thought I am not good enough and therefore choose mates who will treat me accordingly. Well I’ve truly had enough and I want to bunker down in my apartment with my cat and just nurture, meditate, sleep and whatever else I feel like. But I have to say being in a relationship, or even going on a date is the last thing I feel like doing. I hope one day I might be able to do that again without losing myself, but right now, I’m feeling so fragile, yet determined to protect myself. I hope one day I can love myself and also find a good man to be in a relationship with.
I read a quote somewhere that said, something like, if you love yourself then love is where you come from, so you don’t need anyone’s love to fulfill you. You’re already loved.
The trick is, narcissists and other assclowns spot it and want to take it from you. They try, but they can’t because they lack the emotional depth to feel that level of honest , authentic love.
They fail, but in the meantime they make a helluva mess of your life and pummel your self esteem– if you let them. They are the honey badgers of relationships–they just don’t give a sh**.
It stings to let go of someone you tried so hard to love, but just remember that they didn’t try at all. They don’t know what love is, so don’t be shocked if they walk away unscathed, as if you two never happened.
You will heal.
They never will.
They are the honey badgers of relationships–they just don’t give a sh**. — oh dam, that’s good!
Yeah, don’t be hanging on to someone who doesn’t give a rat’s pahtooty if you’re there or not and can easily replace you once you “get woke” to their nefarious ways. . .even better if *you* can be the one to drop a dime on these assclowns.
I *think* I was dealing with “a situation” this past week — this time with women with whom at a minimum, I wanted a business relationship/networking.
It is SO hard to see these things! Everything started out so nice, so “sisterly” bondingish, so common-groundly. . .but then I felt weird, quickly. Like, is it just me, or are you really, at your core, just out for yourself? Is it me, or does it really seem like you don’t care about me, for realz?
No one likes to seem needy, but having needs is NOT needy — no matter how small, as in the “making tea” example someone mentioned. I think part of the deal of what Nat is saying=if your needs and the other person’s needs are mutually exclusive at your expense (e.g. you are always the one getting the short end of the stick), it’s time for a re-evaluation if not a swift getaway.
If you’re asking yourself or the other person questions of the “where/how do I fit in(to this)” variety, yeah, it’s probably time to bounce.
And just one point I’d like to make (the tea story was mine)… You can bet, that if roles were reversed (if I had offered her tea but had only done for myself) she wouldn’t accept that behavior from me. It’s so funny how sometimes we just turn the blind eye for crappy stuff but they would never stick for the same thing. Most of these folks (be it colleagues, friends, partners) are really good at taking care of only their own interests… while we are really good at catering to everyone’s but ours…
Jeez– that’s good too, every word.
I’ve been reading posts and listening to podcasts on this site for 2 and a half years now. Thank you so much for it all. It has saved my sanity. I tried for years to rescue my marriage, throwing everything I could think of at it, pouring my heart out to try and be what he needed or wanted. Nothing worked. I’m not perfect and I made mistakes, and i needed to learn to speak up for myself and my needs, but I was willing to learn and grow and try. One day I realised I was the only one trying to taking responsibility (only I took responsibility for all his stuff too – duh!) and that I was the only one trying at all. This quote below from today’s post was a real lightbulb moment:
“A great litmus test for understanding whether something is our responsibility is to look at whether the efforts we throw at it make a positive difference over time.
If nothing happens or we experience temporary change and then it reverts to the typical pattern, it’s because whatever we’re trying to influence or control, is not our responsibility or within our control, hence why twisting ourselves into a pretzel in order to ‘make’ someone become available, is a waste of time.”
This is exactly my story; exactly what happened. One day I ‘woke up’ during our couples’ counselling (which I arranged and which he did not engage in, and even said he wasn’t wanting to do any ‘homework’ and was ambivalent about our marriage and said it would take a ‘big work’ to change anything; falling out of love with me was inevitable etc etc. ). I’d given all I had for 2 or 3 years prior (and before that during 15 years of marraige), i’d arranged date nights, and weekends away, and he planned nothing for me, he would perk up for a while, and then get distant again, and then talk about wanting our home life, but having to settle for an unsatisfactory sex life, and the only thing that might threaten our marriage would be if he fell in love with someone else (thanks dear!). I tried to come up with ideas to spice things up, or to help us get closer in a variety of ways, but he turned them all down, and never once asked what I might want or need – I tried to ask for this, for example could he say i love you sometimes, could he verbally affirm me a bit, and I was told he couldn’t, and that i shouldn’t need him to say i’m beautiful (he never said it even on our wedding day – said how nice the bridesmaids looked though!). He has his own issues, and I’m sure there were many things about me that didn’t help, but i did try until I had nothing left to give, and nothing was coming back – no acknowledgement of my efforts, or feelings, or any sign of him owning up even just a smidgeon to having a part to play in hurting me at all. We separated when I said it seems like you have left in your heart already maybe we should separate, you should have seen the relief on his face – it was the most positive feedback I’d had from him in years, we had quite a nice coffee after that. Then when it got real and he had to leave the house and the kids he got mad at me, and accused me of giving up too soon! But i felt there was nowhere left for me to go – no options left. And he blamed our counsellor (who was amazing and kept telling me how brave i was). Then he told me he was going to go out and look for other women now (because ‘obviously’ he’d been so good to me by being faithful in the marriage despite me not being able to satisfy him, and only looked at sexy movies and books away from me, but no other women – gee thanks!). A year later, (a friend told me he tried and failed to get women) he asked to come back, but secretly (to protect kids) have dates – no guarantees (wow, I feel really wanted…). I said no. He tried again and asked for a conversation with me a few months ago. I said no. He ignored my ‘no’ and sent me an email asking to try again, but the email made it clear that I was at fault for giving up, that it would be good for the kids, that our counsellor was no good. The only acknowledgement of his part in it was ‘i left’. No recognition of the pain he may have been a part of causing, no i’m sorry. there was an i love you but it came at the end and was accompanied by ‘this is going to take a lot of hard work but i’m willing are you?’ (hello! I already did a lot of hard work and you did not…am i really that hard to love?) and it also said that I, as a christian who believes in second chances, should give him a second chance. I showed the email to a trusted brother who thought it was toxic. i was so upset and worried that maybe i was obliged to take him back – but the very thought of it kills my soul and fills me with dread. The God i love I know doesn’t not want that for me, or him. I’m just coming alive again, i don’t want to go back to manipulation and control again, I don’t want to be second best again, unwanted again, or wanted until he finds something better – or decides that actually no this is not working (he constantly swings from hot to cold, and one opinion to another). Sorry, long post. But maybe it’s possible I did do my part in it, and i did take my responsibility and I made the healthiest decision I could. My kids and I are thriving (and he is behaving well as co-parent and I am learning to keep strong and healthy boundaries with him). Thank you Nat, and all you who post on here.
Good to see you’re doing well, Miss Nat. And dayammm…that new (?) photo on the Home page….LEGIT. You look like you’re about to bust some unavailable ass. 😉
Just checking in to say hi and get my feet a little wet with this subject (albeit belatedly). This exact thought (loving me vs. them–sort of like The People vs. OJ) is what has kept me from the dating pool for quite some time now. Even though, like a yogurt, I’m still damn good after my expiration date (which is nearly 40, this year).
The truth is (cue the violins, gag) that I’ve never had a healthy relationship with a man (including, surprise surprise, daddy) that has been filled with love and respect, so this “loving them while also loving myself” thing sparks real confusion in my subconscious mind. Thank you for shedding light on a much-needed-to-be-discussed-topic, as usual, Miss Nat. Keep up the good work. Hi to the kids and all. 😉
Revolution,
I’m beginning to realize that I’ve never had a healthy relationship with a man either (even though I was married for 22 years). I know that the men I choose now reflects unprocessed & undealt with things that I’ve experienced in my past. I would love to know how to break out of this pattern so I can finally have a healthy relationship.
I’m a new poster here, but have been reading posts on here for the past year after a pretty devastating divorce & a couple of short term unhealthy ‘relationships’. I find that I keep attracting (or accepting) the EUM or AC who makes me feel fabulous about myself. Even though I see red flags waving ferociously just begging for me to acknowledge them, I conveniently ignore them & continue on in my illusion that THIS is going to be the ‘one’. The last EUM I was with (I broke up with him for the 4th time 2 weeks ago! ???? Talk about a glutton for punishment), is an alcoholic who felt the need to go out & binge drink 3-4 times a week until he was wasted & he’s in his 40’s! I have decided to take a break from dating for a while because I need to figure out why I kept repeating the same pattern of taking him back & thinking things would be different. This quote in the post resonated with me ‘If your relationship is reliant on you having little to no boundaries, minimal self-esteem, and it lacking equanimity and equality, loving yourself isn’t going to be possible in the relationship, and that means it’s time to opt out.’ I’m continuously asking myself why I began dating him in the first place knowing how much & how often he drinks and why I didn’t ‘opt out’ when I broke up with him the first time. I have quite a bit of introspection that I need to do before I even think about getting into another relationship. I really want to understand & change my pattern. Sorry this was so long ????