Women do love jerks, i.e. the perpetual ‘Bad Boy’. Or if we put it in a language that makes us a bit more comfortable: we love men that create drama. We want excitement, passion, fireworks, and whilst we sometimes get that, we often get plenty of mistreating, emotional unavailability, and ambiguity. ‘Nice Guys’ aren’t claiming a rough ride for no reason; it’s because they often get relegated into the friend zone for behaving half way decent and being available.
Very few women would hold their hands up and say they like assclown Bad Boys and those that do, well they’re a different, rather honest kettle of fish, but every day women blindly pursue relationships with men that reflect the negative things that they believe about themselves, love, and relationships.
You’re not going to stick around and value a man that treats you well and wants nothing more than to love and have a future with you because if you have negative things permeating your relationships which in turn create unhealthy love habits, you will draw in men that perpetuate these very things, not challenge them.
You want a guy to want to be around you and not abandon you – Go out with a jerk and you’ll feel abandoned.
You want a guy to love and cherish you – Go out with a jerk and you’ll feel unloved and uncherished, which makes you feel not good enough.
It all comes down to self-love and if we had a lot more of it and dealt with the negative hangovers that many of us seem to be afflicted with, a lot of these assclowns wouldn’t stand a chance.
It’s not an accident when you keep going out with a certain type of man. For it to happen once or twice you could call coincidental but when you are the only person central to your relationship crime scene and the same sh*t keeps happening, you have to start asking yourself what signals and vibrations you are sending out.
Bad Boys confirm that we are not good enough.
Bad Boys create the drama that we think is supposed to be part of relationships by giving fleeting highs, plenty of lows, and never quite letting us know where we stand.
Bad Boys take the spotlight off us so that we get to focus on how bad they are and what they’re doing to ruin the relationship.
Bad Boys make us want to try harder to win them over by providing a challenge. Of course when we don’t ‘win’ we determine that there must be something wrong with us.
Bad Boys get away with being Bad Boys because there are always women out there willing to go out with them because we bet on potential and we hope that if we love them enough and ‘prove’ ourselves that they will become exactly what we want them to be.
Unfortunately a jerk, is a jerk, is a jerk. An assclown, is an assclown, is an assclown. A Bad Boy, is a Bad Boy, is a Bad Boy.
This is all like waiting for the cockroach to turn into a frog to turn into a prince.
These men are unlikely to change when we show that we are willing to accept them in their dodgy packaging. There is no incentive to change because they know that we must have some dubious love habits if we’re even willing to entertain them.
So it’s not really about us loving Bad Boys – it’s just that we don’t love ourselves enough and when that happens, we’ll happily welcome the waifs and strays of the dating pool.
Are you waiting for your assclown to change? Do you think that women love men that don’t love them?
Your thoughts?
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I can’t speak for other women, but I have been involved for 2 years with a man that doesn’t love me. He says he does but doesn’t treat me as though he does. I am hopelessly attracted to this man and I can’t figure out why. I don’t think my self esteem is at rock bottom, but it seems I am always attracted to this kind of man. I am 40 years old and have not had a successful relationship with a man yet. I’ve had long relationships but they are always full of turmoil. I think I may be attracted to the drama. When we are getting along well I feel unconfortable. I almost feel as if he is getting bored. Then when we have fights and break up he eventually comes back sometimes begging. Then I really get a high!
NML, I think there may be something else going, that gives the Bad Boys a head start: Ill-defined goals, and inertia.
I consider that we as a ‘modern’ society have lost our way, when we turned the explorations of courtship into the social ‘recreation’ of dating. For recreation we look for something new, something different. Something outside what we have, whether to sample something new, something adventurous (slightly dangerous), or a deliberate choice to do something new, or something that others have done. If you are dating for recreation, then the possibilities *start* with the flashy, the slightly dangerous – the glib ‘guides’ to places we haven’t been. We do *not* look for substance, since we are only ‘sampling’ – “Its Just A Date!”.
But then the date comes. With the arbitrary assumption that we are dating because we want something long-term. Note that by this time it is too late to look for character, for honesty and honor. Our dangerous date takes charge, assumes they were ‘chosen’, so they have a right to expect submission. The signals and flash that originally caught our eye are still there, so how do we step back and think, “Well, the vacation is over. Back to living like a real person!” Nope. Our basic integrity wants to avoid disappointing our casually-selected partner, wants to preserve our ‘reputation’, wants to believe that what our ‘slightly dangerous’ partner is telling us must be true. Often the arguments and attitudes that bind us in sound awfully close to what our parents told us while we grew up.
Karen: The high you get when he comes back is from making him grovel. This is abusive, disrespects him, and sets the stage for his rebellion, and for you to bring about that high feeling again. The behavior is destructive to both of you, and addictive, too. The thing is, a family should have more peace and joy. There are many sources of stress, with attendant opportunities to survive and thrive. Next time, pick a guy that you respect whole-heartedly, and practice being the most honorable and conscientious partner you can be. If you decide you really need occasional conflict, apply to foster parent – a stream of troubled children through your home, where they have a chance to learn respect and peace, will do the world a lot more good than fighting with your partner.
And I do know where you are coming from. I lost my wife because I wouldn’t yell at her or hit her. After she left I realized she had never learned that love might be expressed without battles. Either is a way of life, but casual physical outbursts are habit forming and tend to escalate the hurt. At least, that is my thought.
nicely done NML! as you said it’s all about self love…it is definitely no accident when women continue to attract assclowns (i love that word!)..lord knows until i figured it out, i spent way too much time invested in relationships with them…thank god i got past that crap! :D.
Brad K. you have thought this through so beautifully. You have presented a very clear perspective that somehow pulls no punches while showing compassion and respect. I will be directing several friends to read your “gift”. Thank you.
Brad, I agree with most of what you said. It doesn’t make me feel good to see my bad boy grovel, but when he is trying to get me back is the only time I hear things like how he wants to be with me forever.
Karen, But there has to be a better way. Back in ‘the day’, it was said you could tell a man’s character by his horse and his dog. An honest horse, calm and brave, an affectionate, alert dog – those around the man reflect his respect and integrity. What I am concerned about here is your guy – is this yo-yo relationship making him a better person? Is his emotional landscape calm and supportive, stress issues excepted? Is he a better person for knowing you?
I know Valentine’s Day is coming, but still .. I don’t believe love is eternal. I believe it can end, from betrayal, from distrust, from abuse, or from neglect. I believe his claim of wishing to be with you forever is true. But I worry that at some point he will ask the fatal question, “Do I want to be here?” and answer a firm, “No.” It happens all too often. Your (our) task, as I see it, is to making a life with him (our SO) that avoids that question coming up most days (for either of you).
Blessed be!
I don’t think that a chick intends to go out with a bad boy. She doesn’t wake up in the morning and go .. Im going to find me some emotionally retarded guy with tats all over him that drives a motor bike TODAY! YAY!
I think that some girls, that don’t understand how attraction works, fall into the trap of liking these guys.
It’s because they are a bit more distinctive from all the other guys. And they basically don’t give a flying crap of what we think. In many ways they are manly men. They are strong, confident and to an extent they respect and accept themselves as they are.
This level of confidence is a particularly attractive quality and that is why girls fall for bad boys.
Yes they fall for them, but not intentionally.
Hot Alpha Female
Hmmm…or it could just be that My bad boy is sexy as all hell and puts it down in the bedroom…I’m sorry but after a string of mediocre looking and performing men…having a “bad boy” has been quite a ride…now I’m just waiting to get sick of enough of the rollercoaster so that I’m ready to get off!
I have to agree with Hot Alpha Female on this one. I don’t think that most women want a bad boy as much as they want a man who’s confident in himself, and in this society, a lot of the time that happens to go hand in hand with disregard for the “fairer sex.”
When I was in school for psychology, I did a lot of research on female attraction to abusive males, and there’s just no evidence to support that women are inherently attracted to men who hurt them, physically or emotionally. Instead, what we see is that women are attracted to dominance, which is characterized by confidence, leadership, power, charisma, etc.
Psychological studies divide male dominance into two main types–aggressive and prosocial. Aggressive dominance is what we see in the bad boy, the cad who uses his superior position to his own advantage, while prosocial dominance is exemplified by the Superman type, the hero.
Studies have found again and again that women prefer prosocial dominance. BUT if there is no prosocial male as an option, they’ll pick the aggressive dominant male over a non-dominant male.
So the problem is…Due to (I think) our decaying ethical standards, we now have too many villains and not enough heroes.
Singletude
I agree with Traci. My bad boy is definately exciting. The rollarcoaster ride has gotten much more dangerous with time. It is a constant up and down anymore and it is making my headspin. I am ready to get off. We ended things yesterday. I am going to try to stay away from him. I don’t care if it is Valentines day. Traci, eventually you will get sick of the emotional abuse. It gets more and more intense the more a person knows about you and which buttons to push to get the desired reaction.
Elsie/Hot Alpha Female,
let us not confuse arrogance with confidence… these men like to create the illusion that they are confident and that (in the beginning) is what attracts us. It is not until we are already sucked in and “in love” that their true colors appear. Truly confident men do not need to play games and be dishonest with their feelings in order to feel superior.
Alysia: Well, exactly. The problem is that a lot of women do confuse healthy confidence with arrogance. They confuse the bad boy with the hero, which is compounded by the fact that there are less and less “hero” types out there and more and more “bad boys.”
Singletude
Does a bad boy’s actions always have to be so intentional? I really just feel like my bad boy has very low standards of himself and life…and therefore is also not very interested or capable of being a good guy in a relationship.
Sometimes I think he’s a stoic…he doesn’t get extra happy, sad, mad, excited about anything. He is very calm in every situation…its very hard to get him to react to anything with any enthusiasm. He doesn’t TRY to push my buttons, he doesn’t try to manipulate me…he just lets me continue to deal with him (and enjoy the benefit of some available sex, of course). He has that love me or hate me but I’m not really interested in changing for you or for anyone kinda attitude.
I honestly believe that this charade really will end when I truly feel like sex with him is not worth the feeling of slamming myself into a brick wall over and over again. BUT…It’s winter, it’s cold, I’m horny and I don’t want the trouble of dating right now so that day is not today.
I know that once my life kinda resets itself again and my focus shifts to other things to keep me stimulated, I’ll get over him. I think once I’ve run my course with him I’ll be more than ready for a good healthy and yet still exciting and stimulating relationship with a good guy. As a matter of fact, if he were here today my bad boy would be yesterday’s news. I am very hopeful that day is coming soon, I have a lot of things in the works in my life right now and I’m ready for a new chapter to begin.
I definately think it has something to do with the presence that they give off. We like our men to be confident, to stand up for what they think is right. To be dominant.
We are sick of all the boys that constantly kiss our butt all day and attempt to do all these supposedly nice things for us .. to get our attention.
I personally am not attracted to bad boys .. touch wood. Because i do understand the reason why we are attracted to them. Because they are unpredictable, we never know where we stand, its a constant challenge.
Girls fall for the bad guy, because the attraction levels are so high. No it doesn’t make sense to be dating a bad boy. No it doesn’t make sense to be dating a emotionally unavailable men. We know we can do better. But that doesn’t stop the best of us from falling for them.
I don’t love the bad boy, but i see why some girls think they do. What i do love is a guy with a good heart, but who is also confident in who he is and how he thinks.
Hot Alpha Female
Traci, “now I’m just waiting.” That seems so sad. I wonder whether an investment in the relationship – as if you intended to claim him for life – might influence him to cherish you in return. Just the fact that you consider this a ‘dating sequence’ and not a life-partnership is probably influencing him.
And if you do believe this relationship is temporary, how much of your life are you going to give away, before claiming the rest of your life?
I know when we are young that it seems we have months and years to give away before we ‘settle down’, but even pre-teens aren’t *that* young. And the habit of giving our life away and waiting for the rest to begin is a horrible habit to slip into. Don’t ask me how I know.
I hope you find a better answer, soon.
Ok so I have a question regarding your article on Women Dating Bad Boys a Myth. You say that these men are unwilling to change when they see that we accept their behavior. Does that mean if we don’t accept it there is hope for them to change? I guess the bottom line is we have to value ourselves enough not to tolerate it. My logic tells me that but heart cant. This was an old college sweetheart who looked me up after 25 years. He was newly separated, sucked me in with flattery & sex, hid me for a year, dumped me & is dating a woman who within weeks has met his mother & children. We go way back. Went to high schoool together. I have been single for 8 years & was so happy just to have someone in my life again. He constantly bragged about himself with regards to women I believe due to insecurity. Outside of the flattery & great sex he really gave me very little. Very contradictory, mixed signals, blew hot & cold. Do these men ever change? Was it me? Will he change for the right woman?
Ok so I have a question regarding your article on Women Dating Bad Boys a Myth. You say that these men are unwilling to change when they see that we accept their behavior. Does that mean if we don’t accept it there is hope for them to change? I guess the bottom line is we have to value ourselves enough not to tolerate it. My logic tells me that but heart cant. This was an old college sweetheart who looked me up after 25 years. He was newly separated, sucked me in with flattery & sex, hid me for a year, dumped me & is dating a woman who within weeks has met his mother & children. We go way back. Went to high schoool together. I have been single for 8 years & was so happy just to have someone in my life again. He constantly bragged about himself with regards to women I believe due to insecurity. Outside of the flattery & great sex he really gave me very little. Very contradictory, mixed signals, blew hot & cold. Do these men ever change? Was it me? Will he change for the right woman?
Ok so I have a question regarding your article on Women Dating Bad Boys a Myth. You say that these men are unwilling to change when they see that we accept their behavior. Does that mean if we don’t accept it there is hope for them to change? I guess the bottom line is we have to value ourselves enough not to tolerate it. My logic tells me that but heart cant. This was an old college sweetheart who looked me up after 25 years. He was newly separated, sucked me in with flattery & sex, hid me for a year, dumped me & is dating a woman who within weeks has met his mother & children. We go way back. Went to high schoool together. I have been single for 8 years & was so happy just to have someone in my life again. He constantly bragged about himself with regards to women I believe due to insecurity. Outside of the flattery & great sex he really gave me very little. Very contradictory, mixed signals, blew hot & cold. Do these men ever change? Was it me? Will he change for the right woman?
Kim, I think it is a catch-22. He might change, but then he would be interested in someone different. Your 25 year guy – I think, if he was any good with women, he would be with the first one he ever dated. Bragging on meeting women is about his life-skill of ‘wooing women’ – which has a) forming a relationship; b) keeping a partner safe, trusted, and respected; or c) being responsible to his partners.
Anyone with the skill to attract and seduce multiple bed partners – will pride themselves on that skill, and will *not* abandon it. He will always notice susceptible women, will always plan an approach that should work, always treasure another notch on the bed stead. And very few of them ever understand what a family is, what a mate is for.
Start by picking a partner prospect with character and values – and avoid those that are easy to meet, that have a string of bedmates behind them. Don’t wait for Prince Charming – look for the village blacksmith. The quiet, honest guy won’t run around.
Brad,
You bring up a good point there. That you shouldn’t over look the nice and quiet guys. Usually they are the ones that are the best to date if you want more of a long term relationship.
But especially in today’s society a lot of women are becoming more intolerant and impatient with these types of guys.
They rule out men within a couple of seconds without even getting to know them that well.
First impressions are so important theses days. Its only when certain situations press two people together, that these first impressions can be broken down – which is very hard to do if you just meet a random stranger once off.
I think girls, while they need to have standards as to the type of guys that they want to date .. they at the same time, cant afford to be too picky and too judgmental first up.
When you get a really good impression of someone first up .. like a flirtatious guy, you need to remember he is the way that he is ..because he has had heaps of practice. Heaps of practice means a lot of girls.
Us girls wonder why we have problems with emotionally unavailable men … its because thats the only guys that we are going after.
We need to start giving the good guys a chance …
Hot Alpha Female
Hot Alpha Female, thanks!
In old-fashioned movie terms, think ‘Murphy’s Romance’ or ‘Angel and the Badman’, not ‘Smokey and the Bandit’. Even in the movie story, the girl doesn’t stay with the ‘Bandit.’
So….I’ve been dating my boyfriend off and on for 2 yrs now. I love him, I am attracted to him in every which way, our personal life in the bedroom is amazing, when we are together things are great and I just feel safe and calm. But thats where it ends. I have been crying over this man for 2 yrs, its ruining me.
I am 32 yrs old and have 3 children that I raise on my own, i have been married and divorced. My ex husband, whom I met at an early age, was a drug addict piece of crap, that didnt like to work and went out every night and wouldnt come home half the time for days. I tried to make things work the best I could, esp since we had 2 children, I did run our house and half the time would kick him out, eventually I decided that I didnt deserve this and my children would live a better life not being exposed directly to a situation like this….mind you, yrs later, he is still the same piece of sh*t. A few yrs later I met my ex fiance, whom is the father of my son, obviously things also didnt work out, he was very controling and didnt like my daughters and decided he didnt want the responsability of a family, he did have a great job and didnt do drugs but the mental and emotional abuse was the same…. he is a great father to our son though.
All in all I have had my share of ass holes and I met my boyfriend and just fell for him. Typical north jersey bad boy….I had decided that I wasnt going to allow anyone to be involved with my kids for a while, because I didnt want them to pay for my screw-ups. from the begining, I knew that he was just coming out of a marriage and they were living in seperate houses, I barely got to see him, due to him working alot from owning his own buisness, in 2 yrs every time things would finally get a little more serious he would back off and disappear without explaination, I would cry my eyes out, blame myself and try to pick myself back up and then he’d eventually reappear. We’d start all over again, and few months later it would happen all over. Still in all I loved this man and saw some good in him, and the feeling that I have when I’m with him exceeds anything I have ever felt.
This past summer he did the same, now mind you that the entire time I have been with him, I have been to his house, and out with him, met a few friends but never really been out with them, and have never met his family, his excuse….that his soon to be ex wife will stick it to him if she found out and he just wants the divorce and their properties to be sold first. Anyway I did end up dating someone else this past summer and afterwards we had gotten back together. at that point I had no expectations anymore, I think that I had trained myself to think I didnt care, and told myself that i will never get what I want from him, so I didnt get hurt. He started being me….opening up and telling me that he loved me and wanted a relationship now and he was sorry and was going to prove it to me ect….. well this continued for the past 6 months and now all the sudden I feel like he is starting to be “him” again. he has yet to really do anything different, he wont seriously commit to me, he has started spending time around my kids, but his work his friends and everything else always gets put first….I feel like I dont know what to do. A part of me feels like I’m getting played, and lied to and a part of me wants so bad to believe him, in that if i hang in there i will get what I want. Am I just being stupid? Am I ignoring every sign and if so why cant I just let go? I’m scared to let him go, I feel like I deserve more and deserve what I want but not ready to let him go. Someone help!!!
Danielle,
I am so sorry for what you have been through, and for what you are in the middle of right now. Even though you are not alone, and thousands of women face problems like yours, I don’t think any one should have to face this kind of isolation and lack of support (emotionally).
Ideally we would all be respected members of our community, loved, cherished, and secure in our home. But that takes some thought and planning. Picking a ‘bad boy’ means your Significant Other (SO) doesn’t live in a community of respected adults. Instead, your guy is living in denial – he wants to think he can support a family – you – while still entangled financially and emotionally with his last wife. He is dishonest, wishing to keep you ‘hidden’, deceiving his last wife (why would he treat you any better than her?) and others that his last wife might know. And apparently not too bright or consistent about it, if you have been to his house, met family, etc. He shows an amazing lack of respect for you, hiding you instead of showing the world his respect and devotion to you.
In short, no character at all. I think you need to look for people of character, and learn to live in that ‘community’ – people of like character, not necessarily a particular city or neighborhood. This will probably be tough and scary – most ‘respectable’ people don’t have real contact with addicts and the people addicts hang out with.
I also think you are going to have to ask for help. It is wonderful that you still enjoy time with him, that your feel strong bonds of affection and attachment. This makes it likely, in the future, to find someone worthy to love. But right now, you need someone you can trust and respect to help you learn some basic values, and how they apply to your life. Perhaps a women’s shelter can help you find a counselor to help, or a pastor. Because this guy has too many problems to be someone you can trust or count on, and people don’t change that much.
I don’t see this guy ever being more in your life than he is today. I can’t believe that he is actually a ‘good father’ to his son, if he allows *anyone* to see that he doesn’t cherish the girls as much as the boy – let alone the boy’s sisters or mother. This isn’t about rude – it is dysfunctional, it is a horrible role model, trains the girls to be outsiders and unloved, and trains the boy to be disrespectful of women. These values will be hard for the kids, or for you, to overcome in life. This guy is ignorant, and has many character flaws. He sounds unfit to parent.
It sounds like you need the help of an attorney to secure support for the guy’s kid, pronto. Get the guy’s fathering the boy tied down legally right now. It will count financially until (unless) you find a real family in your future. It will also be important to the boy’s sense of value as he grows to be a man.
I don’t have to suggest that you leave the guy. I don’t have to say that you deserve better, that no one can live with the deception, the disrespect, lack of commitment. You already *know* this. You are here. You just need to hear yourself to know what is right for your kids and right for you. What I will say is that you often need trusted friends and respected professionals – counselor, pastor – to help you sort the truth. Ask especially about grief, the emotional stages everyone goes through at the loss of someone in their lives – the denial, the anger, later acceptance, healing, and how you can alternate between responses. Learn how long grief takes to pass (as long as it takes). This guy turning up and leaving – much of your heartache now is that you keep dropping into grief, never finding resolution and moving on, before he turns up again and resets the ‘lets abuse Danielle again’ clock.
There are people, women and men, that are worthy of respect and trust. That are honest and disciplined, that are good with children and animals. You need to find more of these people, learn to live as they do, and choose to court (evaluate a mate-prospect) people like that. With kids at home, ‘dating’ without expecting to build a family isn’t going to be good for you.
I know that being so very close to having happiness and love is frustrating and terrifying, and the thought of losing what you have is awful. Only a small part of what lies ahead is finding strength to decide you need better – you already show tremendous strength and love. The toughest part will be learning to see the character issues, for yourself and those you learn to cherish as friends and as a mate. And there is the terror of losing anyone, even this guy. Hugs and kisses, Danielle. Wish I could help more.
Blessed be.
Brad,
Thank you so much for your support. I have never posted anything before and wasnt sure of the re I’d get…. I do believe that I may not have explained my situation all to well, even though it doesnt really matter.
I was married to my daughters father, he was the drug addict, we got divorced 5 yrs ago. I then ended up engaged to my sons father, who I am no longer with. After my sons father and I parted ways I met Tommy, the man that I am talking about now. like I said, not that it really matters…… he still does “hide” me from family and friends, still wont make a commitment, and you’re right, he isnt there for me emotionally. The only thing that I have is the empty promises and the little time that he does make to see and spend with me. Even though that time that we do have together is great, I do hear what everyone is saying….which is “he’s doing nothing different than he always has”. Yes, 2 yrs now….I do want more and feel like time just keeps passing and I keep sitting here waiting for him to decide that he is going to make this happen, and then I wonder….just how long am I going to be sitting here.? I’m afraid that if I let go to soon I just may miss out on him deciding to make this work, I ask myself “am I not giving it enough time?” or ” what if I demand what I deserve and he doesnt do anything?” then I have to break it off and what if I’m not ready? I ask myself these things and tell myself “ok….just 2 more months…2 months and if he doesnt step up then leave him” ….and I dont. What is it gonna take, is he just not doing “the right thing” because I allow him to?
I do go to counseling, and have been in counseling for a long time off and on. Maybe I need a psychiatrist?! I dont know but I guess that no one can give me the answer, I guess that this decision has to be made by me and no one can help me but myself. I do have a few great friends who listen and try to give advice, and they do stick by me no matter what I decide to do, but they hurt because they think that I am just waisting my life and time on someone who doesnt deserve the respect and love that I give when he gives me nothing in return. It makes me sad, cause I do believe in people prob alot more than I should, and half the time more than I do in myself. I have been doing alot of searches on the internet and finding that I do believe and kinda have always believed that my poor choice in men and the mistakes that I have made do result from my childhood. Not that I want to use that as an excuse, but I want to believe that if I can just deal and fix the issues within me from the past maybe I wont subject myself to living this way. I do admit my self esteem is low even though I am very beautiful and stil have the body of a twenty year old, but these men have torn me down, and I just continue to give all of me and get nothing in return. I am emotionally exhausted, I want the fight to be over and I want to be happy, and for him to appreciate what he has right infront of him. I dont know whats its going to take one way or another something has to happen because it has become draining to me.
I appreciate your advice maybe the more I read and talk the faster I’ll resolve the issue.
I pray to God every night that he give me the serenity, patience, and peace to deal with these issues and that he help me make the right choice for me and my children.
Thank you so much for listening.
God Bless…..xoxo
Danielle,
If you turn around and look at life from this guy’s perspective, you are *enabling* him to continue his destructive behavior. And you thought you weren’t facing addictive behavior, just because you didn’t see drugs..
I heard a report, that on average it takes 2 1/2 years to get over a loss or divorce, 3 1/2 years for a woman. What keeps this thing dragging on is, his divorce isn’t final, and his entanglement with you means he hasn’t started getting over things changing even now. This isn’t 2 years of waiting for him to be a better partner (he won’t be any better in 10 years than he is today, is my bet), this is 2 years of you being ‘the other woman’, even if he isn’t together with his last wife. You are the fall-back girl, the comfort station. When he feels like getting his ashes hauled, he stops over, then he is good to go for awhile – and disappears from your life again.
I haven’t been to counseling, but I have to wonder – if you are seeing a counselor, and they aren’t helping with a question this profound .. I would wonder if I was seeing the right professional. Be sure to cover the fear of finding yourself alone, the grief from losing a loved one, terror of exposing yourself to someone more dangerous while looking for someone new, and feelings of doubt about being able to find a good man. While the decision to turn your regard from this guy seems clear to me, I don’t mean to make it sound easy. It is terrifying to say, “Enough.”
I may have gotten the paternities crossed, but that has nothing to do with what this guy is doing to your kids as a role model, an adult man around the family. I see a very strong connection between his joy over the boy, and his rejection of your daughter – and how he disrespects you. He is bigoted against women. You are facing a losing battle. And meanwhile letting his disrespect toward women taint your kids and tear your life apart.
Please realize that your love and affection are begging for someone responsible, and you are settling for disrespect and a skilled womanizer. Remember that sex is gender-specific. For a woman, sex builds bridges, binds your heart. For a man, sex strokes the ego. A generalization, true, but much more true than is comfortable. Where you find closeness in bed, he finds affirmation that his life is satisfactory as it is.
There are tricks that you could play with him. Cosmo secrets to make him promise almost anything. But you would still not have a responsible, disciplined partner that likes women or respects you.
Go back, and read what NML has to say about the No Contact Rule. This is just one of the ’50 ways to leave your lover’ that Paul Simon sang about many years ago. Make a New Plan. And think, too, about what is best for the kids. Personally I recommend that their mother find a disciplined (will to complete a task), honorable man of integrity, with joy and deep bonds of love. {{hug}}
Brad – thx for ur response on Feb. 22nd re: “another notch on the bed post”. What confuses me is this guy was married for 16 years. I will never know what his true intentions were for looking me up 25 years later. In my heart a part of me believes he did want to see what was there. It was a long distance relationship which made it very difficult. He often told me “I so wish you were here to come home to & how hard the distance was on him”. In my mind he still wasnt divorced & still isnt. I had heard from many that he had no relationship with his wife for 2+ years & that they barely spoke & had drifted apart. She was still in the house when he looked me up & he told me he had been dating some but Im not sure if that was true. I was hesitant to get involved so soon & made him wait several months but he did everything in his power to convince me he was through the “stages” & all that all they had left to do was to file a dissloution. To this day they have not filed yet I believe out of fear of financial constraints. His wife had an affair a couple of months prior to him looking me up which I believe brusied his ego regardless of their failing marriage. Someone with his insecurity could not fathom an affair I imagine. Not one person I have spoke with thinks he looked me up other than to use me & had a perfect out with me living in another state. I will never know the truth. He poured his heart out to me via email & was so romantic. He went out of his way to to convince me we had a 2nd shot at happiness & he was looking for someone to spend the rest of his life with & thought we had the “magic” it took for a lasting relationship. When we met he was totally different from those emails in person & everything changed. I didnt know if he just wasnt into me, if he had trouble expressing things in person, or if it was all a line to get me to hook up. He was very closed off & didnt like to discuss feelings which was so TOTALLY opposite of his emails & I didnt understant it at all. As time went on everything seemed to be about him, he always called to talk about his life, his friends & always made comments like “My friends are living vicariously through me & they say I’m the new town whore because I have a Hummer & I’m single & they tease me about having 3somes because I had 2 ladies over here to clean last night”. I didnt understand why he would make comments like that. He told me to please always be open & tell him if something was bothering me & when I did he would get upset & feel attacked for some reason. I got the impression from comments he made to me that his wife had problems with his “flirting” & bragging about other women. He would say she was insecure & PLEASE dont be that way with him. I could have accepted him not feeling comfortable being open & I loved everything else about him except for the “women” comments. He was so full of life, fun, & we had a phenominal sex life. I’m not convinced he follows through on things with women as much as he brags but I may be wrong. What pains me the most is after a year of telling me he loved me & mwwting a dozen times & clicking, talking about a future & how we belong together, he meets another girl & introduces her to his kids & mother weeks after ending it with me! Is it becauue she is local & it is all about him? Is that love? She is younger, has $, no kids & lives there. No brainer I guess. Just wish he wouldnt have kept telling me he loved me & to move there right up until he met her! I was SO hurt he couls just turn his feelings off like that & that he hid me for a year. We used to daydream of our time together & I feel she is reaping the benefits of everything I waited to have. I believed he just needed that year to adjust. I truly regret now not moving sooner. I told him from day one I would & it has been my intention for years. I feel I missed the opportunity of a lifetime out of fear. I have family & a daughter there but was afraid to start over. It was all right in my hands & I let it slip away. He had told me he didnt know how to tell his kids he was dating someone out of state. I did believe he wanted to buy his kids some “emotional” time & was understanding at 1st but then he wouldnt even go to a wedding with me a year into the relationship & I was very hurt. I have waited my entire life to feel this way again & didnt understand why he would withdrawal at times. I thought I was playing it so cool, not pressuring him at all. What I need for closure is to know if he really played me or did I do something? Ive been reading a lot on men & relationships & it seems I have made a lot of mistakes. He also has many signs of emotional unavailability. So my 2 haunting questions that I may never get answers to are this? 1) Were his women comments to keep me at arms length & was he emotionally unavailable to just me?
2) Is he making those comments to this new girl? Is he capable of love of is everything for his comfort & benefit? I may never know. I have been through so much loss. This was my chance for happiness after all I have been through. It is a cruel joke to me to bring someone back into my life I never got over & have it not work.
Something to throw a wrench in there – I was home for the holidays 8 weeks after we broke up. I had heard he was “attached at the hip” with his new girl & she had met his kids, friends & mom. I sent him a text because I wanted to get some closure & talk to him & ask him why he hid me. He jumped at the chance to see me & asked “what did you have in mind”? Guess who he slept with while his girlfriend was out of town? I guess I have my answer… I guess I wanted to believe he truly loved me. My ex abandoned me with 2 children 8 years ago & had an affair. It was hard to put myself out there again & trust. I did it & a man never got over 25 years ago did the same thing to me. It has been too much to bare & I am having trouble letting go & not sure where to go from here. I know that was a lot to take in. Is this guy a selfish player? Everyone says if he truly loved me he would have waited. I dont know. He is a man, it had been a year & the distance was tough. They say men have to “be” with a woman to get closer & women can just “talk”. The distance would make that difficult if that is true. That is why I kick myself. He moved on.
How can I tell if my man was really emotionally unavailable or if it was just my insecurities that made the relationship fail?
Hi Kim, thanks for your question! I will write a post on this and post the link when it’s done!
NML – Thx for responding. Where do I find the post once it is ready? I have another question? My man came to me recently separated. Red Flag I know now from reading your site info. We go way back & dated in college. Is it possible for a man to only be unavailable due a situation say a separation. His wife had an affair. I ask because after a year of investing in this relationship (which was long distance to boot)he broke it off with me & after hiding me for a year & introduced this “new” girl to his mother & childre after weeks of breaking it off with me. I was crushed. We talked about a future. He sucked me in telling me everything I wanted to hear by email & was totally different in person. He has many sign of EUM’s but I am trying to determine if he really is or if he was just unavailable to me. I believed at 1st he hid me to buy his children some emotional time. I feel like I will never know & it haunts me.
Yeah what is it about bad boys. I have been dating one for almost two years, my children hate him so why am i still with him. hes not taken me out for seven months, every time we arrange to go he cancells, and his excuse is always the same, hes ill. i keep breaking away from him, but he keeps coming back one sound from his sexy voice and im their, hes like a drug. But i know that one day ill be free from this emotional relationship, if i dont im never gonna find happiness.
I’ve always dated nice guys and met my first bad boy a few months ago. We had to part but I hope for a reuinion. He showed me who he was a horrible person but no surprises I like that. Despite wanting to hate him still had to appreciate his guts.
He’s the worst of the bad boys but as a rule those guys are honest. They don’t pretend to be nice act like a gentlemen and then when you are emotionally attached pull the rug from under your feet. I am starting to prefer bad boys or flawed guys because what you see is exactly what you get. I want to know what I am getting. If you have dated nice guys like I have you would realize once you get to know them there is no guarantee that they will give you what you want, continue to treat you well, be loyal or won’t do something horrible.
Another thing I realized I liked bad boys because they’re like me emotionally unavailable. Maybe they can relate to abandonment addiction in family etc because something like that usually happened to them. I can’t hate bad boys because the guy that gives off the bad vibe is usually the guy that does the right thing in the end. Also do you love them because they understand you to your core. Not in a superficial male/female way but in a way that is as solid as the ground under your feet. I would prefer that over some pretentuous nice guy who can’t admit that all he wants is sex but he’ll take you out and mislead you and have another girl/guy on the side.
Let me tell you of one more experience I’ve had. I met two guys one good guy who had a gf for 3 yrs another was bad boy new girl on his arm every other day. I liked the good guy do you know who he finally ended up with? A woman who had multiple abortions no education no job her whole life who was hanging around 3 other men. He doesn’t pick me the educated intelligent woman he picks her for whatever reason.
Let the record show even if you are a great gf that may not be what the nice guy is looking for. He might be looking for drama. The way I understand it bad boys in a relationship want redemption so they do well w/ the good girl vibe type of girl. Bad boys/jerks they are usually not happy with themselves. Maybe they want someone who will show them how great love can be but who is strong enough not to get sucked in.I think that liking bad boys also comes from having a dad who was similliar emotionally unavailable/workaholic etc but if you can resolve your issues w/ your dad you can be happy with whichever type of man you want.
Layofshallot, I understand what you are saying. I liked guys that I could relate to about my bad childhood and who could understand struggle. It´s almost like you recognize eachother and feel safe and understood. More so than with a good guy (even if they are absolutely genuine). Good guys always made me feel uneasy. Partly because they couldn´t understand everything about me and partly because I felt I wasn´t good enough. As if I would never measure up against the good girls whom they should be with instead of me.
But…. when you have a history in common, you also share your problems, your fears. All of my badboy relationships were disfunctional for this reason.
Now that I have overcome my childhood and have learned that I am good enough. That I AM a good girl. Now I stay clear of badboys, they only drag me down again and I don´t need the recognition any more. Only emotionally healthy people from now on.
You sound like you have given up on the possibility that there are nice guys that are really nice. That don´t change or have a hidden agenda. But they do exist. Would be a shame to give up on them…
Most women would prefer a pro-social dominant male, If one isnt present she will always prefer a aggressive dominant male over a non-dominant one. Girls dont like assholes, they are attracted to some of the atributes of the asshole.
@ladyofshallot: He was probably intimidated by your, and since girls rarely make the first move thats a problem, he probably liked you too but suffered from self-esteem problems like alot of guys do, maybe he thought you were “out of his league” which is always a bunch of bs, no one is out of anyones league except by choice or sub concious limitations . His daddy didnt teach him to be a man (very common problem), If he had read a little bit of “playa” literature he might have made a move, I had the same problem once. My last girlfriend would have never gotten to know me if I hadnt swept her off her feet. Some ppl are assholes but books about how male/female dynamics works (in essence the same way it worked 10000years ago) and basic principles of flirting is great, its a win/win situation for guys and girls imo, should be taught in school 🙂
badboys at first comes off as nice gentlemen, the misunderstood, neglected, and the abuse, they do this to sucker the nice girls into their web. The nice girls have high self esteem, are secure, have something going for their lives and are confident they will eventually drop the badboy but the badboy will do anything to hold unto this type of women. But the badboy will begin to work their nerves, they will only stay with them as long as it take to dump them. some badboys are abled to get 20, 30 maybe 50 women a year but they are not abled to hold on to one decent, goodgirl. The badboy craves a good woman and not a slut. the badboy wants a good girl so that the world can see that he is somebody and is worthy and he is not bad. If a woman go down while she is with a badboy she was already bad herself. Badboys are very lonely and insecure men and they hate the women that they eventually end up with. Most women that stay with they badboys and take their mess have issues, they are women with low self-esteem and no one else wants. Badboys want decent women with very high standards, a madonna, mother type that is very strong and will stand up for herself and put the bad boy in his place. women that is not apart of the lose girl, party girls, and fake and phoney girls crowd. There is no such thing as a good guy, only lonely insecure men, that put themselve behind the women. The badboy puts himself infront of a female, until he found a woman that is worthy of him, he is looking for a woman that is in control , knows where she is going and how to get there, a woman that do not take no bull in the process. The Badboy will be leary of this woman at first because he has never encounter this type before, he will send her through trial and tribulations trying to catch her off guard with ever trick he knows, it might take months and it might take years, until he realize that he has the real mccoy. A badboy is not bad ,and a good guy is not good. There are just different type of men,there are a thousand different types of so call badboys and a thousand different type of so call good guy including serial killers, you do the math!