In a continuation from part 1, I explain what the assclown archetypes of controllers, liars, manchildren, and assclowns suggests about your own character and relationship habits:
If you’ve found yourself with a guy who is a bully, manipulative, jealous, possessive, you aren’t sure of who you are as an entity. Your uncertainty makes it easy to shift around to [over]accommodate those around you.
Controllers come in many guises. Some sneak up on you with little comments here and there that gradually build so that one day you suddenly realise that you’re not who you started out as – Choppers. If you live in the UK and watch Eastenders, Peggy Mitchell looks ridiculous since she got together with her controlling assclown fiancé with a dodge hairdo and and hideous clothing, watching every word she says for fear of getting on the wrong side of him.
Some guys are more obvious with it. Some will tell you straight up that you don’t meet their exacting standards. In your mind, their attitude signals that if you work really hard to please and do as they say, you’ll win them. They behave like a shit and you’re convinced it’s your fault for being less than.
This happens to many women.
You don’t believe that you’re worthy and good enough. When he starts controlling you, you take it as confirmation. You believe his being in your life makes you a better person. He, in fact, steals your character like a thief in the night and ensures you’re dependent on him… for misery and for your ‘happiness’.
You’ve become codependent. Even though he is the source of your misery, he can also feel like the basis of what you know about yourself making it very difficult to cut him off because you feel lost without him. If he is particularly abusive/nasty, you won’t have enough self-worth left to be able to recognise what a nasty, weak, chump he is.
He is abusing you, whether emotionally, verbally or physically and/or emotionally abusing you via control so you’re not free to be yourself.
If you tend to be involved with controllers on any level, there is a very self-destructive side to you. You’re likely to mistake the familiarity of fear and pain with love. It’s likely you will feel helpless and weak as this is a vicious cycle to extricate yourself out of.
Ah, the wonderful world of living with the deceptive. From cheats, to Pinnochios that swear black is white and white is black, to fraudsters leading double lives, these men are bloody nightmares! It doesn’t matter if he tells lots of ‘little lies’ or specialises in ‘big’ ones, lies are lies. It’s very possible if you are with a liar, liar, pants on fire, that you’re likely to buy the line that he lied to you to protect your feelings.
If you knowingly involve yourself with men that have to be deceptive to ‘manage’ their relationships and you let them get away with it, it’s because you are in denial. You’re keen on fantasy, illusion, and betting on potential because you buy into the lies as much as they do.
In short, being involved with a liar is about an avoidance of reality. You’re a master sweeper under the carpet and living the lie means you don’t have to face yourself either. If you absorb lies into your relationship, the world as you see it becomes very distorted. You have to twist everything else to fit the lie.
When things go tits up as they tend to with these men, you’ll say it’s because he let you down, didn’t come through on his promises, led you on a merry dance, and never did quite learn to tell the truth. This is true. However, in denying yourself and the life you live with a liar, the relationship fails because you’re not living a real life with the real you. The truth is ultimately stronger and greater than fiction.
Overgrown babies are the scourge of many a modern relationship. From emotionally unavailable men, to player playas, to those that deplete your financial reserves or refuse to move out from their mummy’s and more, they bring a whole new meaning to the saying ‘Once a man, twice a child.’ If you find yourself with a manchild, it’s because you have instincts to over-nurture and be over-responsible. You’re also likely to have issues with control.
You’re trying to raise men from the ground up. Rather than deal with yourself and then go out and find a guy that reflects your desires, values, etc., you take a shortcut, choose a ‘less than’ man, and then try to turn him into what you want.
When he fails to meet your expectations, you feel cheated and unrewarded. Often you’re afraid of dating a decent guy for fear he may see the negative things you believe about yourself. Dating down or, as I put it, ‘dating beneath you’ makes you feel better about your relationship experiences. Plus, when things turn out like the self-fulfilling prophecy indicated, it’s actually because you’re controlling your experiences and environment by knowing what negativity to expect.
Being with a manchild with the emotional age and capacity of soggy cardboard says a lot about you. While you are connected to some of your emotions, it’s in a negative way. If you dealt with your emotions in a healthy way and engaged in emotionally healthy relationships, quite frankly, you wouldn’t pee on these manchildren if they were on fire.
Raising a child is exhausting work but often rewarding. Raising a grown man that you shag and have needs from is soul and self-esteem destroying. Oh, and often the people that get rewarded are him… and the next woman.
Many women who love manchildren are high achievers and very successful. Manchildren seem easier because you may believe that men on your level will feel threatened. Or you secretly may not believe you have what it takes to get a man on your level. Being with a more evolved man seems quite scary and would put you out of control. You have commitment issues and fear of losing control. Manchildren, in many respects, seem easier.
With a manchild, his ridiculousness seems to trump whatever issues you have, so these are great guys for cruising and hiding your own problems behind. Trust me, if you’re with a manchild, life is one big avoidance.
Assholes are grade A assclowns or ‘untouchables’. There are many assclowns out there that don’t recognise their behaviour for what it is, but Asshole Assclowns do. Any of the other assclowns can just as easily slot into this category if they’re particularly nasty. Think full-on narcissists, beaters, habitual cheaters, criminal assclowns, fraudsters and, in essence, men that a woman in her right mind would never touch.
These men may represent excitement, and in other instances they may represent the nastier side of what you have experienced in the past and what you believe about yourself. Your friends and family will despair of your involvement with a man like this. It’s just a shame that you don’t.
His being a bastard is oddly exciting, and you enjoy competing for his attention, often in a narcissistic harem. You don’t think you bring very much to the table, so he represents everything of what you believe is good in your life. In an odd way, you enjoy the uncertainty. Sometimes you enjoy the misery because you’re not comfortable being happy or around men that don’t have mean tempers, a parole officer, or a penchant for running up huge debts and then running off.
You’re quite a big optimist. You’re very focused on what he’s like on his ‘good days’, which are actually few and far between. You, too, are in denial, and you’re hiding behind the greatness of his assclownary.
I don’t think you believe that you can get out or that there is better out there for you. You’re a settler of the worst kind that believes she’s made a bed that she has to lie in. Note: you don’t.
As I said in part 1, this is about giving you food for thought and reminding yourself when you’re analysing him and playing back every moment from your relationship that if you want real progression, you need to take the focus off him and bring it right back to you. When this is all a distant memory and you’re standing in front of a good man or looking at yourself in the mirror and feeling happy and blessed about what you see and know about yourself, you’ll realise that in changing how you think about yourself and who you engage with, your life has become infinitely more positive.
Your thoughts? Do you recognise why your relationships are not working? Please share your thoughts!
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NML, a really great post today. I am focusing on me these days but it’s really hard. I am out dating and often I find men smothering me and it gets me down and thinking about my ex because I think shoot, this is what it was like dating me and then I get all bothered that we only failed because I was super clingy and needy. Just seeing my behaviour from the other person’s perspective has bothered me.
However, reading through this today I am reminded more clearly of what it was really like at the beginning of my relationship with my EUM. He chased me, told me he wanted to be with me, pulled this disappearing act… I was an emotional yoyo. So part of recognizing their behaviour helps to at least explain some of my very irrational decisions.
My EUM definitely dabbled in a few of these categories 🙂 I do find it hard still to believe that I somehow “chose” him without knowing it… my counsellor says the exact same thing as you do here. Even now, as time goes by I find it hard to remember my feelings but I do vaguely recall having a strange pit in my stomach when I met him, feeling like warning bells were going off in the back of my mind. The hard part about meeting nice men now is they don’t set off that sick feeling in the pit of my stomach which I think for years I have mistaken as some sort of excitment, when really it’s just the familiarity of anxiety and drama kicking in.
Great post. The ex-EUM was definitely a flip flapper with a touch of as$hole. Glad that I finally wised up!
Mine was about control, very subtle, he would pull back a little, I would chase more. He controlled when I got to see his “Lying, controlling, drinking, have a lot going on A**”!!
We would go out to eat, he would ask me, do you want to eat at Place A or B? I got to pick a place that would suit HIM either way.
Same with going to the movies, he got to watch what he wanted, but I got to chose!! 🙂
Controlling and lying goes hand in hand for me, what makes him overall an A**hole.
My ex-husband is a control freak. NML, I have to tell you Thank you, Thank you for opening my eyes, I “killed” two birds with one stone, it took me twenty years to see my ex husband for what he REALLY is and the other A**clown as well.
Mine is most definately the flip flapper with a little control freak mixed in. I fooled myself into thinking that his constant “who is that calling/texting you, when did you assign that ring, guess you are getting booty calls, who did you go out with this week, why are they calling you and how much did you drink last night” was a sign of caring. I thought the jealousy meant he really cared and let me tell you, I mean jealousy. He questioned every single ring of my phone and if I cut it off he accused me of hiding something. He would constant ask me if my phone was on silent or vibrate….It got so old and the accusations almost became unbearable. I finally got to the point where I told him that he must be doing something when he is out of town because the guilty are always the first to accuse. The flip flapping I can’t make up my mind..I love you but…ugh! It just turns my stomach and I know he doesn’t want me with anyone else because he has thrown fits over that to. Oh well, not my problem anymore.
I have to say honestly that my ex-EUM doesn’t fit into any of these categories, but he is absolutely emotionally unavailable. He was never unkind, controlling, or verbally abuse to me. When we were together, he opened doors for me and treated me with respect. But….the disrespect came when he would ignore me for days, weeks, and sometimes months–when he would say he would do something with me and then back out at the last minute, etc., and when he would take advantage of me and my friendship. My ex-EUM is not a bad person. He is just emotionally wounded and cannot connect with others in a healthy way. Perhaps if I could have fit him into one of these categories, I would have walked away a lot sooner than I did! 🙂
Trying, are you kidding? 🙂 A little control freak? He is a big control freak, re-read your post, asking you who called etc. None of his business, it is disrespectful, I would never ask a person “whom are you talking to”, that is bad manners.
I hate to say this, guys like him that travel a lot – especially going to the sames places, have other women.
Finally, I can’t remember your story, was yours more like a friendship, no se* involved?
Don’t cut him any slacks, if he took advantage of your friendship and ignored you for days or months, makes him a user as well.
I really needed this article today. This morning, my guy lied to me for the first time (that I know of). We’ve been together for 5 months (met online) and had the exclusivity talk about 6 weeks in. He never took his profile down from the online site and regularly accesses his account. I knew this 6 weeks in and asked him not to but never checked up on him after that talk. Last week, for whatever reason, I looked and sure enough, his profile is still up and he was active within the last 24 hours. I had the perfect opportunity to raise the issue with him without looking like I was checking up on him because the site sent me a renewal notice via e-mail. I forwarded it to him saying that after we agreed to be exclusive, I made my profile unsearchable and hadn’t accessed my account since and if he hadn’t already done so, would he do the same. He did not and, this morning, was still showing as active within the last 24 hours. He was just about to get off work (he’s on the night shift), so I texted him asking him to call me on his way home. When he did, I told him what happened and that I was disappointed, especially after sending him that message on Sunday. He said that he hadn’t done anything on there since Sunday. He said it just automatically signs you in when you sign into the Internet service provider parent just like it automatically signs you into IM. I told him mine doesn’t do that so I wasn’t aware that was what happened. He said, “I thought we discussed this before?” (We did but I didn’t check on him and didn’t think much about it since we had only been dating about 6 weeks at that point in time). I told him I didn’t remember, but if we did then I’m even more concerned that his profile is still active. I then said if you are still open to seeing others, please tell me because I don’t think we should be sleeping together if that’s where he’s at. He said if its that important to me, he will take down his profile!!! I explained that there’s not an option to hide your profile, just make it unsearchable. He asked how you do that and I couldn’t remember. He said he would do it if he could figure it out, otherwise I’ll have to show him.
I am now LIVID because I looked at the Help section of the OLD site and know he LIED to me about not having accessed his account because the site says the activity indicator is when the individual accesses the Personals site – not simply the Internet Service Provider parent site. This is the first time (that I know of) that he lied to me and my immediate reaction is to just cut off contact – no explanation, no nothing – just not answer his texts and calls. Unfortunately, my son’s Christmas presents are in his garage and I need to get them back.
Judy, I hate to say this but you do need to get your son’s Christmas presents back BUT is there anyone else that can go them for you? Maybe a friend that can contact him and get them (a nice guy friend)? He is a smooth operator isn’t he? I see so many posts from women on here that met their EUM online and that has made me to where I don’t even want to consider signing up for any of those sites. I wouldn’t trust them fron the get go!
Astelle, you are right..he is controlling. I thought something was off after the first week we met, he was out of town and texting me “you are probably on a date, oh well, none of my business” and that was only the 2nd week. He could have a woman/women all over for all I know. He has had the same job and been traveling for the past 19 years. I did bring that up one night a couple of months ago. We were drinking wine on the patio and when I made the comment he slammed his hand down on the table throwing my glass off and shattering it saying that when he gets done working he is to tired to do anything but go to the hotel and turn in…whatever! My father has told me that a lot of these types of men also wind up being phsyically abusive. He has never gotten physical with me but he did one night in a jealous tirade (over someone he accused me of sleeping with from the start of our relationship) throw a remote across the room and turn his recliner over. I had never seen anything like it and thought it was so uncharcteristic of him. He even told me one time that his ex-wife accused him of being a control freak. Hmmmm…why didn’t I see that huge reg flag?
Judy get your son’s Christmas gifts back and cut contact with this guy. Trust your gut! You know already now after a couple months in that this guy has outright lied to you. Do you need to stick around to find out more? He’s still cruising the site to see if he can find more women or until the next best thing comes alone. Everything about him screams lying EUM. Please Run!! Now!!!
Hi Astelle, yes, we were basically just friends, but I had stronger feelings than he did. And yes, I do agree, he is a user–which is why I have broken contact with him once and for all.
Mine was not controlling but had this great game he played. I didn’t really remember this until a few weeks ago and I realized wait this was about the time I suddenly fell for him. We went out and he asked if I was dating other people he said I am not but you are free to date other people as I want you to realize that I am the best guy out there. He pulled this another time near the end. He would tell me to cover up my body jokingly because he didn’t want all the boys hitting on me and then would say but I want you exposed to as many men as possible so that you know I am the best. I realize now he did this so he could date others even though I would say you are enough for me! But boy did I fall for him and how confident he seemed and I remember getting all insecure and saying “you don’t care if I am dating other people?” and he would say “jealousy is just not something I feel babe, I am too grown up for that.” Grrr!
Hi All,
Natalie got it all right again…. Unfortunately my last 2 relationships were all those things rolled into one! And, both EUM. I am completely damaged and I don’t really know how to make better choices – so I just don’t want to bother. I know this says more about me than them but how can I trust or believe in another man? One of them even got engaged to another woman whilst he was with me! Then treated us both like sh*t! I’m out of it all now and my problem was that I had believed in them and they had both lied and cheated and decieved me, members of my family, friends, colleagues etc… Now, I darent enter into another relationship for fear of being made a complete fool of again – I can’t let that happen again.
Better luck to everyone else.
This awareness was one of the first steps in my healing process – finally learning to see straight. He couldn’t have lied to me if I hadn’t lied to myself.
And so on. Uncovering who I was/am was vital – it led me to seeing what I had done – the patterns I’d fallen into unsconsciously my whole life.
You’re doing a great service with this blog NML. Nobody says it like you do – points out HOW to fix yourself first and why. You don’t just do platitudes – your specific points SHOW what’s going on.
Happy to say that, after my comments this morning, my guy deleted his profile from the online dating site.
Judy – what does it matter now?
Judy, despite the fact that he took the profile down. He blantly lied to you. What are you going to do with this knowledge?
Judy, you are dating for 5 months now and this guy was also shopping on the dating site the entire time, that would bother me more than the fact he lied.
Judy, he lied to you. How can you trust anything he says? He will probably to go another site . Get out!!!!
My eum was all the above I think but mainly verbally abusive & a narcissist on top!! (what a catch!)
lovingAnnie – you touched a nerve with me, your right – as he couldnt of lied to me so much if I hadnt of lied to myself!! -I uncovered so many of his lies it was untrue (I was like an FBI agent by the end of the relationship!!) but it didnt matter how many ugly untruths I found out, I just swept them under the carpet in blatent denial, I guess it was easier than facing up to reality – that I was with a maniputive, lying, cheating loser. I think the hardest part now is working on myself & all my issues – mainly why I was attracted to my eum and why I put up with such abusive treatment for so long, I had my first sesssion with a counseller today after being referred by my doctor because of my anxiety, even after one session it is very sad to realise that I have huge abandoment issues and as NML pointed out in her post, I mistake being in pain as being in love ive been that conditioned to it!!!
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JUDY – my ex-EUM did the same thing to me and I wish I had listened to my gut and knew he was lying. I realized it after a few months of dating and he gave me the same stupid answer that he didn’t sign in, but when he signs onto the service provider it automatically signs in…I knew he was lying, but I wasn’t ready to come out of denial. He eventually took the profile down, but it was like pulling teeth for him to do it…I found him on another two dating sites in the months after that and he always had a BS excuse…the profiles were old and he forgot they were there, even though he was active on them. JUDY, I stayed with him on and off for 2 years…do not believe him…I wish I was smarter…ANY MAN WHO VALUES YOU AND LOVES YOU would be happy to take the profile down…he’s a playa and he’s full of it…TRUST US…we’ve been there…get out of it now…he’ll string you along for as long as you are willing.
Natalie…thanks for this post, it’s really thought provoking and it made me realize that I wanted to live in a fantasy world, not seeing my ex-assclown for the user, liar and manchild he was…I didn’t have enough self esteem to realize I can do sooo much better. I am educated, accomplished and have everything going for me…I just need to focus on believing in me…
God bless all of you!
JUDY…your man’s answer was almost identical to mine…it’s eerie…maybe he’s the same guy!!! Are you from NY?
“…if you want real progression, you need to take the focus off him and bring it right back to you.”
This article made me smile. Not only recognising a certain someone, in parts. But also seeing my own expertise at avoidance. Avoiding my potential to live well, look after myself, get out there and enjoy life.
I’ve done no contact now for the past week (after a lapse when I accepted his call). It hurts all the time, and I miss him. Especially at night.
I guess I was with a flip-flappy, controlling manchild.
But to be honest…..he perfectly suited where I was ‘at’ before I even met him.
Now I wonder if he shone a torchlight on some dark corners in my own life.
I am slowly recognising a few realities, and my behaviours. It’s uncomfortable, but I have been getting some feelings of kindness for myself, instead of the usual total frustration. : )
I have an opportunity now…
I can’t do anything about fixing his issues, but I can take responsibility for myself. Maybe I can start to practice that now…. I hope.
I just hope I can follow through with it. The lure of Drama and Distraction is still so strong.
One day at a time, I guess.
Honeyshy – Bearing in mind I’m no expert, I’d just say that building up trust in yourself first and foremost could be a starting point. Away from the dating scene.
Lia I know exactly how you feel, I’m at this exact same spot too. It’s been a rollercoaster for 3 years with a flip flopping, manchild with a touch of controlling. I just mostly find myself at a lost right now. All of these old negative feelings from way back seem to finally be full on in my face for me to deal with now. I’m afraid of being alone, but I know I can’t go back to my ex-EUM, nor do I want to. I know I deserve better, but it still doesn’t help with the emotions that keep cropping up in the meantime. I just feel angry, lonely, and ashamed of myself for staying with someone who so obviously cared so little for me. Right now he’s pushing me to quickly move out so that he can start dating. We just broke up the day after Thanksgiving, and my head is spinning. I’m totally stressed out looking for apartments, adjusting to a new job, and trying to get my grad school stuff straighten out. Not to meantion that I’m usually pretty bombed out during the holidays, and I live on the other side of the US away from my family. (I’d stupidly moved here with him almost two years ago, because he’d said he wanted us to be together, to start a new life together.) Only I got here and it was the same crap as back home, and I waited and waited for that engagement ring, only for him to finally say, “he’s not ready to grow up quite yet”. Yet from the beginning and through out he was telling me that he wanted marriage and children. Now its the last thing he wants. He’s already over this relationship and ready to move on, and I just feel like I’m spinning. I knew in the back of my mind that this was the real truth, yet I stayed, and now I just feel ashamed and embarassed to be way out here alone with no family or friends.
Judy- Please, don’t be fooled by him, his “consideration” for you in taking down the profile. Wow, he did such a great thing by taking down the profile after you said something. You said that he said: If it’s that important to you, he’ll take it down. As in, he would leave the profile up if it was up to him.
He was still active on it after 5 months. Even the fact that it was active after 6 weeks of dating is a red flag. He was keeping his options open, and getting his ego fixes from random women. This characteristic of his personality is not going to go away after he has taken his profile down. Please trust your original reaction and listen to us on the board who have been there, done that many many times over.
Thanks Astelle never really saw it before that it is a form of control when they give you a choice of things ie restaurant a or b but like you say its where they want to be not you …
Do people consider it a form of lying when your EUM says things and he just plain doesn’t follow through on it ?
I feel for you Nikki.. is there any way you can move back home? you aren’t the only one to know the real truth and act against it been there done that too and found myself isolated and alone ..
Hi All again… Thanks for your comment Lia. I’ve been away from the dating scene for about 4 years now, my last 2 EUM’s found me – at work – I wasn’t even looking and they do say ‘it’ll come along when you’re not looking’ and it sure did! 2 complete assclown, devious, lying, cheating, manipulating……etc….and everything else with bells on! But all this had helped me to know, without question, what I don’t want, and what i’ll never have in my life again. I sometimes think that I am ready to try again, to let another man get a toe into my life, I don’t want to be on my own forever and I know I’ve got to have a little faith somewhere along the line. I even took myself out of the social scene for the last few years and have remained firmly in my safe shell – on my own – but…. it’s our works night out this Saturday and we’re all going out to a few bars for a few drinks and merriment – i’m really going to try to enjoy it like I should, try to be sociable even with strangers, and try extremely hard not to attract my ‘next’ assclown! I’ll be thinking of all the support and advice from this fantastic blog and the rest of this fantastic site. X
It is a fantastic site.
I do feel for you Nikki, and Honeyshy, and everyone on here. Nikki – I hope you find a peaceful place where you can look after you, yes back home if that’s possible. Don’t be too hard on yourself. I very nearly moved in with my man and pursued the fantasy too.
It is difficult to to protect oneself without shutting down from new people. But I don’t think all men fall into NML’s categories above – there are good ones out there. (i hope?!) The point is, feeling good about myself first.
Isn’t it down to me which ones I choose to engage with?
I’ve definitely made some ‘interesting’ choices there in the past….
I’m just thinking that, for me, whatever state I’m at within myself determines the quality of the relationships I experience.
At least, I hope so. I’m still learning. : )
Well, once again I’m late to the party (computer issues) but…
When I told my parents I was getting divorced, my mom said, “Oh thank God! We’re getting our daughter back. He stole your personality you know.” Wow! What a wake up call. Most of my previous relationships with assclowns were with controllers. It was all I knew.
Part of me believed what they believed about me. It was a terribly hard cycle to break out of.
Judy, the first time I faced an issue like this I was 16 years old. I suspected my boyfriend of lying to me and my sister who was 19 at the time said “It’s enough that you suspected he’s lying you do not need proof.” This behaviour has continued with me for years and it wasn’t until my most recent EUM that I figured out why I have this constant quest for proof… I don’t trust myself. I worry that I am paranoid, just untrusting, anxious all the time. That may be but it means I am not healthy enough to be in a relationship regardless. However, I have also learned that I have really really good instincts that I do not trust. The fact that you feel the need to go checking up on this man is not good. I have checked my exes cell phone before, I have checked his email and never was I wrong… I always found out I was being cheated on… but it should not have come to that. So he took his profile down, it won’t end here. He has set a standard now for lying and once trust is gone it’s gone. Trust is not something that is gained, people always say this but I disagree. It’s there between human beings, we just assume the good in people and so long as they behaved that way we just go on common human decency. Once it is gone, there just isn’t a way to be “sure” anymore as you are aware what someone is capable of, the rules they are willing to bend.
I don’t mean to be blunt but I just don’t want you to be stuck with that feeling in the pit of your stomach for the rest of your relationship… those relationships where you find yourself always doing some sort of detective work just turn you insane.
Good luck.
Lia – I really feel for you, stay strong it will get better, but take each day as it comes- im now at week 3 – somedays I feel much better & ready to go on with my life, then some days (like today!) I feel so down, angry & upset – and well depressed if im honest!! I feel so cross with myself that I feel like im actually missing him after the way he has treated me and again like you said especially at night & with the Christmas holiday coming up, but I know really its because im adjusting to the calm and getting used to being by myself again after over 21/2 years of constant madness & drama!! this site & all these posts have really helped me over th past couple of weeks & when I feel down like today – reading over them takes away the temptation of doing something very very stupid!!
Thanks everyone for your great words. Despite everything I do plan on staying here in California. My family is back home in Florida, but the dsyfunction is just too great even with them for me to contempt going home. Regardless of my ex-EUM I do love leaving here. What this means for me is that it’s time for me to build a new network of friends and family here. It would be easy for me to just turn tail and run home, but I feel like I’m suppose to be here for a reason, even if he and I aren’t together anymore. I’ll know by the end of this week if I get the places I’ve submitted applications to, so once I have my own place, the truth healing can begin. Being here on my own will finally force me to deal with my issues head on. I have abandoment and being alone issues. If I stay I’m much more like to deal with them properly, so for those reason I will stay. I came for some of the wrong reasons, but I will stay for all the right ones, because I can’t keep running away from this stuff, this is what got me into these relationships with EUMs. More than anything I just need to refocus my life on me, because I’m more than capable of taking care of myself, finally.
Dazed – I have also been like you (think I mentioned in a recent post that I was like an FBI agent after my recent EUM) however if I think about it, I have always been anxious & untrusting – looking for constant proof of deception in all my relationships – its like im just waiting for all men to hurt me – & they do!! its very sad to realise at 30 years of age & 14 years of dating that I have very low self esteem & have accepted so much unacceptable behaviour in my relationships – not anymore!!
Yeesh, this article and all of y’all’s responses to it is like looking into a funhouse mirror room. I see myself, the ex-EUM, and our reflections of each other in all of y’all. Bizarre. And way unhealthy.
Mine was a flip flapper. Maybe a bit of the control thing, in that he decided when and how much relationship and at what speed. But it was all about never having to decide whether I was the right woman for him, never getting to the point of deciding.
I have some real flip flop indecisive parts too, but not in relationships (it seems to me tho I understand y’all are trying to teach me otherwise). Mine is what I want to do with my life/career. I spell “career” this way: “careen!” I just float from one thing to the next, doing part time jobs at the same time as full time jobs, none of them very successful. I just never want to decide on one thing ’cause something else might be more fun or less work. Now does that sound like somebody we all know, or what????
G-ahhh!!!
Mine was a liar. Liar, liar, liar. The worst part of his lying is not that he would outright come up with lies and say them to my face (which he was known to do toward the end), he was the kind of guy that manipulates truths in a sneaky, confusing way – so that his lies had elements of truth to throw me off the trail. His other preferred lying method was to just not say anything when he was confronted with the lie – just clam up so he didn’t have to explain. Toward the end he actually confessed that he was a master liar.
BBP,
What did he confess to?
BBP mine was a big liar too but it wasn’t so much lying as you say but leaving things out. Or he would make vague statements that I would read one way and then realize later that it actually left things open ended enough that I actually didn’t have an answer… or I would make statements and he would respond with a question. It was such a game! Oh it makes me angry just remembering it today.
Nikki – Good for you. Onwards and upwards.
NeverGBTA – Thank you for the helpful and kind words.
Gaynor – he confessed to being a “really good liar” – I got him to admit a lot of his shady behavior after we had stopped seeing each other and were trying to to the “friends” thing, when his guard was down – a night which led to me ratting him out to his other woman and the beginning of NC. Dazed – same thing here. The “leaving stuff out” was rampant back in the hot-to-lukewarm phase. Some doozies included “she doesn’t mean anything to me,” which was true, but he left out the part about not intending to stop sleeping with her, or “I’ll change my ways when I meet the right girl,” but not the part about just exactly who that girl might be – (his ex). When I called him on that behavior, I said “you don’t lie, you just don’t talk,” and he smiled in agreeance. RED FLAG!
Oh, and Dazed – I did a lot (like, a lot, a lot) of misinterpreting of vague statements as well. Bad combo for girls that tend to project and control. One of my favorite Radiohead songs says, “just cause you feel it, doesn’t mean it’s there…” Tough lesson learned.
BBP,
Glad you ratted him out. Did the other woman leave him?
Gaynor – Unfortunately for her, she did not leave him. Either that or she left him and then took him back because they are now bf/gf. I got labeled as “the psycho.” Ah the irony of being called a psycho. I take comfort in knowing that he is incapable of changing – it’s a matter of time before the next relationship crashes and burns and I’m proven right. This guy was a class-A narcissist, and although he has already given her more than he would ever give me, he’s never had a successful, normal relationship in his entire life.
BBP,
Better to be a “psycho” than to be with this idiot. Consider yourself very lucky!
Was he playing you both at the same time? What did she say when you told her the truth?
What do you mean he hasn’t had a normal relationship/
I mean that according to him, he hadn’t had a relationship where he hadn’t cheated on the woman he was with…not even the mother of his child who was one of the only ones he lived with. He is forty years old.
He was playing me, his ex, as well as another fbg that he’s been messing with for years. She never contacted me. I wrote to her. I haven’t heard from her since, but I’ve heard the word on the street and they are official. And yes, better to be the “psycho” in this case.
BBP – mine was a liar too – a compulsive one, he would lie about small things, huge things, he could stand with you face to face and say the sky is green and fully believe it!! and it would be with everyone, he lied about his past, how much money he made, his business, he even lied and said he was divorced when he hadnt even started the proceedings!! – gosh sometimes I feel so embarressed that I stayed with him so long as I caught him out so many times!! you are right though they will never have normal relationships – with anyone!! so just let the pyshco remarks wash over you – when I met my ex eum he used to accuse the ex wife of being a cheater who used him for money & took him for everything, funnily hes now saying the same things about me!! and the guy never so much as got me a valentines card!! – never mind spent any money on me – so you can bet your eum will end up breaking up with the women hes with now & labelling her a pyshco too!! I have also done so much reading on Narcissist personality disorder as my ex eums behaviour was like nothing I had ever come across (and guess what? – he had every trait of a narcissit) – its lead me to believe most EUM Men are narcissist disorder too – and believe me if you read up on this subject – you will realise you are fighting a losing battle being anywhere near these people!!!
Nikki – better to be on your own than living like the way you are!! I know it will be hard for you at first but these men are toxic, I can quite believe it when you said yours has moved on & wants you out so he can start dating – shocking to anyone ‘normal’ but these men are just very selfish and do not have any empathy at all, they move on so quickly as nothing they say to you is real anyway, when I moved out from my ex eum I slept on my friends floor for a week, was still having hospital treatment & was in a temporary job, I didnt think it could be any worse – but anything was better than being around the verbal & emotional abusive I had to suffer – its hard but once your away from it, you can start to put the focus back on you and realise the situation you were in for what it really – hopeless! I did have a down day today but still determind to never go back!! I promise you every week away from them NC becomes like a milestone & that horrible anxious feeling becomes less & less – im nearly at the end of week 3 and cannot wait for week 4!! good luck & stay strongx
Never, since you are sure that he is a Narcissist you should not have any down days just up days. They lie as soon as their lips are moving 🙂 He is an abuser.
Mine (ex husband, not the other a**clown) used to say to me: “I never said that” or “That is what You said”
Stingy, yeah, but not when it was for him, cars, clothes, bars.
For christmas – one year – he bought me a cell phone but no cell phone plan to go with the phone. I could write a book 🙂
Astelle-Are you serious? A cell phone but no plan to activate it? Now that’s a kicker – what a loser he was. You are better off without him or anyone else that treats you that way!
I read up a lot on narcissists too, I had never come across one in my life before. Or if I had I had never paid much attention to them. It was an eye opening experience. But then I ended up going back for a short time – but it didn’t last I just had enough and went NC. Best thing I have ever done, no regrets. Just hard to break the “relationship crack addiction”. But once that’s gone it gets easier and easier every day. And I get stronger every day too.
LoriG – I had never come across a narcissist before in my life either – or so I thought until getting honest in therapy and I realized that my mother was one. When you think of a narcissist, you think of these a-holes that only think of themselves – completely screwing you over with no regard for your feelings. For me, though, the acceptance of crap behavior comes from way back. Narcissists come in many forms and need people to adore and love them, anticipate their needs and accommodate. And while that doesn’t describe all EUMs, and not all crappy people are narcissists, that does describe a lot of women who have kids for the wrong reasons. When I’ve looked at myself and why the kind of behavior I’ve put up with in relationships is comfortable and acceptable (or why I’m attracted or attract crappy guys), I actually hear some of the same phrases from my worst ex-EUM (and other past, lame bfs) that my mother said to me as I was growing up – “I knew I would screw it up…I knew I would fail at being there for you…” “You’re so great, I could never be as great at “activity x” as you…(teary eyed)” “you don’t deserve me…” What I thought were compliments, flaws and weaknesses that I should forgive and sympathize were actually means to make me feel bad for them, control me, manage me down, make them feel reassured that they were not bad people… to refocus the energy I put into myself and achievements into their own – like vampires. Not every EUM is a narcissist, as NML said in a past post. And not everyone grew up with a narcissist like I did. But that behavior is sure is something to think about if you’ve been subject to an especially terrible EUM.
Astelle – that is classic!! & definitely narcissist and like you I could also write a book on mine as he also definitely was!! he finished with me on my birthday one year, asked me to move him with one time (in a desperate attempt to keep me after some particularly bad behaviour) and then the day I was meant to be doing it (and had moved out of my old place – he sent me an e-mail in work saying he had changed his mind & couldnt go through with it!!! i caught him in bed with his ex wife!! (apparentely they had just been sleeping though!!) – the list goes on & on.
BBP your right every EUM will not also be narcissit it seems to me like some of the behaviour goes hand in hand – very similar to you too, my mum was narcissist or border line personality disorder – I havent seen her since i was 16years of age – but grew up with her telling me that getting pregnant with me ruined her life!! – I must be a text book case of growing up in dysfuction and then gravatating to it further through out my adult life!! its only now at 30 years of age I actually realise what Ive been doing for the past 14 years!!
Hi Ladies, interesting posts here and I have been where all of you have been and empathize with you. I have always been attracted to narcissists and on that note, Natalie addresses, like attracts like.
If you read information about narcissists, usually the partner is an inverted narcissist who are more than willing to be a feed for their NS (narcissistic supply). I know I was now. These guys are miserable beneath the surface (and so is their partner) and according to the data on narcissistic personalties, may think that “she knows there is something wrong with me but yet she stays and puts up with me and takes it therefore, there must be something wrong with her too”. Bang, you become the supply that they desparately need to survive and maintain their “false self”. I am no expert on the subject but after this last guy I have done my research and realize that if I don’t want to be a magnet for these type of men, I needed to face the issues in my life and deal with them. Change the perceptionof myself. Get the tools I need, like asking the right questions upfront and getting out at the first red flag and stop being a magnet for these these guys. Just a few thoughts…Gail
Ok ladies so ran into him last night… we live in a small city it’s hard not to. Anyhow he shows up in a brand new car!!! The city I am in meanwhile is having a transit strike so I am stuck out at my house and can’t get around without staying at friends houses etc. Anyhow I am just having one of these days where since we broke up it seems life just gets better and better for him. He saw me and looked at me and gave me this smug smile while I stood waiting for a drive.
I know I should not care it’s just was such a bad day and there he was and all I could think is why are you not suffering why does life just seem to work out for you. This is a guy who was in debt, etc. and now he has this brand new car. And for all I know he’s more in debt or whatever just buying more toys but I just wanted to scream why can’t something go wrong for you because it feels like that’s what’s happening in my life right now.
Aw Dazed, keep your chin up. It might look like that but you know that in the end, with his behaviour, he’s bound to be lonely. You have your self awareness, your self respect, and I’m sure lots more things that are more worthwhile than a new car.
Hi everyone. I am new to this site – a friend recommended it. I haven’t been able to read every article – but I plan to. Anyway, I’m having any issue with what could be an EUM, or maybe it’s me not wanting to let go. I need some “straight up” advice. I was “hanging out” with this guy for awhile – over a year. Back in October he was texting me that he was very depressed and mentioned suicide once or twice. Come to find out, depression runs in his family (he never bothered to even tell me that during the entire year we were together) and the medication he was taking was having a negative impact on him. Anyway, I was there for him through all of this – didn’t pressue him to see me and made myself pretty much available whenever he wanted because I genuinely cared for him and was worried that he might actually hurt himself. I did express my concerns to him – that I wanted him to take care of himself, if he needed anyting to contact me, etc., He told me on numerous occasions that he my care and concern meant alot to him.
Well, right before Thanksgiving we had an “argument” – not much of surprise – since it has been a recurring argument for the past year. I apologized for my behavior (like always). I asked if we could see each other before the holiday and he said yes. I have to tell you that I never spent one holiday with him because his friends were always “coming into town” during those times. The day we were supposed to see each other he texted me that he would rather clean his house and that he needed space. i tried to text him on seveal occasions but he didn’t respond. In a “crazy” moment I sent a pretty nasty text and then a few days later I sent another apologizing. He finally answered with a text “It’s fine.” He hasn’t responded to any of my texts since. So why did he respond at all?
hi Katie. I reckon you already have the answer to that: he doesn’t care about hurting your feelings as much as you care about his. He probably just wanted to stop you from being in touch. God knows why they do the things they do. Thing is we have to be nicer to ourselves than we are to them. “Mine” was also always going on about how sad and depressed and lost he was, he ended up moving countries to “fix himself” and I always encouraged it. I particularly remember one night we had a fight on the phone: we’d planned on meeting the following weekend and he had cancelled it cause he was so depressed he wanted to be on his own, well after that phone call i found out through a friend of mine who lives in his town that he was out partying at someone’s birthday party and seemed to be feeling just fine. It’s twisted, and we always want to think they’re too confused or they’re keeping up a strong face, but really it just boils down to them not respecting us or honoring the things we do for them.
If you’re genuinely worried about his behaviour, get one of his friends or his family to look after him, while you can safely remove yourself from that situation..
Dazed – I know how you feel. You wish that you could just see him suffer, and it seems like all the bad people just never get what they deserve. It will probably not happen – either because it just straight up won’t happen, or if he were suffering he would never let you see it. You have to trust that even though it looks like he’s got the world on a string, inside he’s totally empty and that he’s got much worse problems in the grand scheme of things than you will ever have. He’s the kind of jack-a$$ that gives an ex a smug smile as he drives past. Most of my normal, decent ex’s would have stopped and offered me a ride and it wouldn’t have been an issue at all. I can almost picture it, though…grrrrrr.. what a jerk
Katie – keep reading the articles. The answer to why he didn’t respond will become much more clear – — he’s an assclown, he’s using you, he’s not going to come around to your way of thinking, and you don’t owe him any apologies. This site will explain so much!
He answered to accept your apology. Leave him alone, don’t waste your time with him. His suicide threats should make you running, he sounds screwed up.
Is this answering my text thing a way of keeping his foot in door? I’ve heard of this happening to other women, but this is a first for me.
Katie, were you guys just friends or were you se*ually involved?
How often did you see him and did you see him only when he wanted to? How old is this guy?
He may respond so that you don’t totally go away, but he has not answered your txt, I still think he answered your apology text to make himself feel better, seems everything revolves around him.
Was there a ‘break up”?
Has he ignored txts or e-mails or calls during that year you were hanging out?
First, you need to STOP texting him, it is pointless, he may just answer when it suits him or he needs attention.
What was the “argument” about?
I don’t know how to ask this without sounding patronizing (which is something I don’t want) so I’m simply going to ask:
why do you actively chase these guys?
why do you keep texting them and call them and beggin them to meet you when they don’t want to?
why do you put yourselves through the humiliation of being rejected once more?
I can understand pining for them even when they misbehave or obsessing when they are not there… but why keep chasing them?
I don’t mean to be rude or hurtful but I genuine want to know
Nilondoner… I think it’s an addiction… confusion. They tell you they want you so much and then don’t and it leaves mixed messages and because we are too afraid to just face it and let it go. Because they always bounce back at some point I think it just seems easier to keep pursuing somehow then to give up.
When your heart is involved it’s hard especially since these were not simple cases of this isn’t working (well they are but that’s not what we are hearing or seeing). I did it at the end because I could not let go, could not face it, my EUM also was sweet still and led me on, talked about our future so I just kept up until he was like ok you can leave me alone now and then I was totally confused. So while it is black and white once you step back, partly we have played the game for so long it’s like having invested 10,000 grand on the market and lost it all and you keep thinking I’ll just keep investing more until the market turns around as opposed to cutting your losses.
It’s also tough to walk away when you say things to your guy like, “this isn’t working,” or “why are you lying to me” and they spin it all around, convince you that yes, it is working – kinda sorta, maybe they will change, give them time yadda yadda….and you want to believe….and no, I’m not lying, but we’re not totally together and I didn’t want to hurt your feelings….blah blah blah…and you think “maybe i’m the screwed up one…”
Like Dazed said – it seems cut and dried, and in most healthy situations leaving would be a matter of just saying “it’s not working” and the guy would let you go. For these guys, it’s the way they passive aggressively fight to keep you around and confused and play on your sympathies because they can’t give up one of their ego strokes.
Astelle
It was more than friends… in the beginning it was pretty mutual – if I couldn’t see him one night we would make plans for another. However, thinking back, in the last few months it was pretty much when he wanted. I remember e few times we would make plans to see each other, then he would tell me that his friends invited him to do something so he cancelled our plans. Then later in the evening I would get a text asking if I wanted to come over.
He asked for space and all the crap before, but this is the first time that he actually stopped to responding to any communication from me. Maybe it’s his way of telling me it’s over. I don’t know but I would like to move on and knowing that I won’t hear from him. I’m still concerned about him.
The argument was about him being selfish. It was probably something I blew out of proportion but making dinner for himself, and not even asking if I wanted anything – I just thought that was rude. IT wasn’t the first time he did something like that. I remember many times if we went out, he would walk 2 feet away from me or in front or me. It’s like he didn’t want to look like he was with me. There was one time we went to a concert and ran into his boss. The rest of the night, he was standing at least 5 feet from me. I felt like I had the plague!!
He is 29 and I am 35.
Katie, you are the Fallback girl, if has something else to do he cancels plans with you and then calls later in the evening for se*?
He is a user, cut him off, cut contact!
Nildoner, I agree with you, that is how I feel now. When I was in this situation and looking for answers, trying to understand and yes, by the end of the day – it is so pointless, a waste of time.
I figured that was were this conversation was going. Looking back, it’s funny (really, hurtful) that I didn’t pick up on that. I thought maybe during the last month (October) things were beginning to change since he seemed to be confiding in me more than usual – opening up about his family’s history of depression. etc. He really seemed to genuinely appreciate my concern. I keep thinking that if I didn’t say anything about him being rude, we might still be seeing each other. But the fact they he couldn’t take one day during the Thanksgiving holiday to see me, makes me believe that he didn’t care if we saw each other at all. He always made me feel that I started drama, especially if I became mad that he would make plans with me and then cancel.
Also, I was perfectly clear about what I was looking for and he agreed. I guess I wasn’t paying attention to his signals until the very end. What really sucks now is that I am hearing all these stories about how many other women he was chasing at his job. How he texted another co-worker asking her if she wanted to be “f**k buddies” (she had enough sense to turn him down) while he was still seeing me. I guess maybe it’s good to find this out now so that I won’t start thinking this was my fault (at least not 100%). It is still very hurtful and I hope I’m not feeling this way 5 months from now. any specific articles I should read about getting past this hurt or any advice??
Katie, you need to read Natalie’s post from November: “Coulda, Woulda, Shoulda – Could my relationship have been different?” it is under Emotional Unavailability, that will answer why you think that if you have not told him he is rude you would be still together. You may think he confided in you, I call it the poor me syndrome, what a perfect excuse he has blaming his Depression and getting your support and concern. I wonder how depressed he was when he went to the Party without you?
Katie, I would recommend that you download Natalie’s book, Mr. Unavailable and the Fallback girl, it will answer so many questions and remove doubts, it will also explain your role in these kind of “relationships”.
Yeah – I wonder how depressed he was when he asked his coworker to be f**k buddies… ? Sounds like he’s coping in his own way.
There are people out there that are truly, profoundly depressed, and he is giving them a bad name. my own brother battles depression, and he not only would never in a million years tell his story to gain sympathy (in fact he would rather not discuss it at all), he is also the nicest, most considerate man and a thoughtful boyfriend. this guy just feels bad for himself and reels people in by making them feel sorry for him. I mean seriously, what normal person wouldn’t sympathize with someone struggling with depression? Katie – it’s not your fault you feel bad and want to help – that’s normal human instinct. But see him for what he really is and how he treats you.
BBP, thanks for the post. For some reason I feel better reading your words.
Astelle, I just read the Coulda, Woulda article and I realize there was probably nothing I could have done to make the situation any different – other than taking off the blinders earlier on. Someone posted a comment that these guys seem to never have anything “bad” happen to them and I tend to agree. I’m left wondering what the hell happened and he’s probably found another warm bed to crawl into.
Katie, from what you posted I see how he was definately blowing hot and cold with you. He was managing your expectations down so that you wouldn’t demand more from you than he planned on giving. He used you for an ego rub, and tried to make you feel bad for realizing that he basically was providing you little to nothing as far as a relationship. Don’t feel bad or ashamed. This site will help you a lot.
Good post! I can see my ex-husband, ex-EUM, family, friends (ok aquaintances) and self in this post. Wow, eye opening for me and sad too and I am angry all at the same time. I feel so alone in my life right now. I am working with my therapist on honoring myself and setting boundaries. I am passive and as a result I have allowed others to walk all over me and abuse me but I am growing a backbone, I see a little of the bone sprouting.
You ladies are so wonderful! I wish some of you lived close to me, then we could all get together and build a support group for each other and have someone that we can go out with to get our minds off of these EUMs. I live in Los Angeles, CA for anyone that might be in this area.
Yes, this is a great group. I’ve been coming here in and out for around a year, and it’s helped me get perspective and mainly the forum helped me a lot when I decided to cut contact.
In fact I’m struggling with this again at the moment: we’ve had no contact for 2 months, and last we spoke he said he wanted to sort himself out and that he’d come find me when he’s feeling better because he can’t imagine not ending up with me. I know this is not true, but I also know he always ends up showing up again in my life, out of the blue, when I least expect. Now I’ve moved away, and I’ve been making a whole new fantastic life for myself, and I’m enjoying it so much that the last few days i’ve been scared he’ll come back and shit all over it. I’ve been thinking of just replying to that last email he sent me and say to please just forget I exist, leave me alone for good and not reply to this. He’d respect a request like this, but on the other hand, it would be me getting in touch. No matter for what reason, like it was said on a previous post: no contact is no contact…
Will someone talk some sense into me?
Actually, just seeing it written down made me realize how ridiculous this is. Screw him, if he ever attempts to swing back in contact, I know i’ll be well able to handle it and continue the non contact. It would be stupid to be giving any thought to someone who was always so selfish and disrespectful.
ibby – just to get the facts straight, NC for two months, you moved away and he just sent you an email, or was the last email the one that said he needed time to “sort himself out.”? If it’s not a brand new email, I would say that you’ve come this far…and moved away even…let sleeping dogs lie. And actually, that’s the best thing to do for a new email – don’t respond. He can’t imagine not “ending up” with you? However it was said, that’s not the goal of a healthy relationship – you should be chosen, not settled on. In your heart of hearts, do you want to “end up” with him, or do you want to continue on this path of happiness and success you’ve been traveling down? Cut the ties to the unhappy past and don’t contact him. Like the last post said, no contact is no contact.
Nikki – I wish I lived in LA I’d totally get together — I’m in the Northeast…brrrrr…. Hopefully NML will come to the US someday to speak!
atta girl!
Ibby mine said the same thing… why dump someone and then say “I’ll be back for you.” well we know why it’s to leave the door open but it’s awful. You are so turned around at the end that we believe these remarks, or hope they are true I think because we can’t imagine the cruelty of saying that to someone if we did not mean it. And any guy I have ever left well I was done with him I didn’t want him thinking I would be back for him or waiting for me.
So it’s hard to get why they do this but at least you know he is just saying this because and you need to hear those words just the same as I do not want you. My ex kept saying he was going to go, but would come back for me even if I was with someone else. Do you know how long it took for me to say no way, if you really care about someone you would be too afraid to let them go for fear they would find someone else, no one is so confident that they can just come back when they like… real true feelings would not allow you to do that.
Nikki, that sounds great, I am in Atlanta. Ya know I am a little skeetish now with men. I thought that I got it right before, but I didn’t. I don’t want to waste anymore time on getting it right. Anyone else?
The EUM told so many little lies and big lies, that I had to go back to the first convo, to dissect it and realized that everything that he possibly said in the first convo was a lie. Any way, he does not and has not contacted me since I told him “not to contact me”. He told me before the break that he was “oversexed” WTF is that? So more than likely he was shagging (love that term) with another fall back. Now I know what Gwen Stephanie is talking about in her song “Ain’t no holla back girl”.
Thanks ladies 🙂 Always great to feel support. One of the things i got out of being involved with someone like this is that my closest friends all lost patience for seeing me get hurt with his crap, so I ended up being even embarrassed about telling them about things, so it’s really great to have this support here 🙂
Wish I was in California too, I’m not even in the US..
That email he wrote was the last one, just after I broke contact and he found out I’d moved. But you’re both right, none of this matters, when you’re with someone, you want to be with them, you wouldn’t want to risk letting them go and losing them.
I’m going to go have a glass of wine to celebrate feeling strong about this 🙂
that was a bit of a smiley spam..sorry for that..
Nikki and Isabella and BBP
For the short time I’ve been on this site, it’s already opened my eyes. I think I’ve learned more here today than in the past year about relationships.
NML -you need to make to D.C….
ibby, how long ago was his last e-mail?
that was on the last week of september, Astelle. Previous times I’ve tried to cut contact, he’d be very quiet for a couple of months then show up again, which is why i was getting a bit nervous now that he’d be coming back for an ego rub. Well, he won’t get it, and if i feel i’m wavering i’ll come back here..
ibby, that is too long ago. It is like if you would walk out on a job and send in your resignation 2 months later. 🙂
Plus, by writing to him you may encourage him to up the contact – and you may feel that you are putting the ball in his court and be waiting to see what he does.
Leave him alone, don’t respond. Him saying that he needs to sort himself out, means “leave me alone for now but be available when I need you. Ugh..
ibby – no such thing as too many smiles after all the heartache. And yes, you ARE strong! 🙂
Girls, I love the support from this site too. I know I’m doling out advice today, but on my bad days I go back and reread the posts that made me strong and all the threads with everyone’s feedback and stories. I’ve posted about my bad days and gotten the best feedback – and like ibby, my friends really don’t want to hear it anymore, and it’s embarrassing to talk to them about it. Being able to talk, vent and read about everyone else’s experiences has helped me so much to figure it out and be strong at weak moments.
aw.. hug
Hello I am new to this site/Postings. Why is it soo hard to believe that these men won’t change? I just recently broke up with my unavailable man…. he lives with his wife (or the mother of his kids) and the two kids. We met at work and he started to want to start a “friendship†with me– as he put it. And little by little I listened to his story. Of how hard life has been for him being here illegally, having to support his family here as well as in Colombia. How unhappy he is at home– that all the love has gone from a relationship that he has been in for 12 years with the mother of his kids. That he sleeps on the couch and that his kids mean the world to him and that is why he cannot just up and leave but will one day when he has his life together. So ofcourse what did I do? I proceeded to want to be the one who helped him get his life together! We started off speaking on the phone, and then soon it became a relationship. I saw him at work every day ofcourse….and then he would come to see me at my place— like once a month (Talk about taking crumbs!) And this is because I had to ASK for the time!!! Not because it came out of him to say– you know babe, I want to see you so Im gonna make time. I stood by him thick and thin. I listened, I helped, I supported…. I married him so that he could get his papers!!! (Yes ladies…. i lost my mind!) Deep down i wanted to help him as a person, but I also felt that I loved him and wanted to be the “one†who could prove to him how much love i had and also to be the one to change his life. I even bought a car under my name to help him … thank god that at least he is responsible and has not screwed me over with the payments!!! Ofcourse— I also added him onto my car insurance policy! Needless to say I do take responsibility for my participation in this whole mess…. and for believing what I wanted to believe. For allowing him to Manage down my expectations every time. For lieing to me even after all I had done! There was always an excuse …. first it was… well I cant really come see you because I dont have a car… well I got him a car! Then it was…. yes but you know that I have to go home to my kids! I have to pick them up today from Grandma’s house and stay with them. Needless to say all I ever wanted and asked for was “TIME†with him. I tried to be understanding, I tried to be patient…. but I always found myself asking for more. When I did, there always seemed to be an excuse!! Oh im such an idiot!! Because instead of bailing— I tried to be even more patient, more understanding, more supportive!!! And now eventhough I just couldn’t take his lieing anymore and i mustered all the strength to end it with him — I still can’t stop wanting or wishing to still have him as a part of my life. Its only been a week so I know– thats not a lot of time that has passed but we work together, Im married to him (legally) and we have this car and credit card situation together. I minimize our conversations to only have to do with either work or payments and do not engage or allow him to engage me into further conversations about his life or mine etc…. Like NML says: He is not my friend! But I sooo want him to be!!! Ofcourse because of my indifference, he called me the other day (I picked up– thought it was about a bill or something etc…) and he said he was sorry. That he loved me the best way he could, that he never promised me anything more, that he appreciates everything I have done. That I have changed his life and been a great friend and that I will always be special to him. That regardless of what I may think, he loves me, has missed me and wanted me to know that. I said– thank you for the phone call…I appreciate it — have a goodnite…. and continued with my indifference. Is there any chance that he could really be remorseful? Is there any chance that he could have really loved me and appreciated me? Im struggling with that right now…….. some days I see him for what he really is, and other days I just can’t help but to want to be nice and have everything be ok again! WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME??? Why do I want to believe him soo bad? Why do I still want to be with this person who has lied, cheated and not valued or appreciated me although he thinks he has? Why is it so hard? Can I be friends with him? Can’t I just forgive and let it go? Ugh!!! I cant… I know…. because I cannot enable him any longer or accept his behaviour anymore. I have let too many things slide that I lost my self respect and im sure like NML says: He is just waiting for me to get over it and come around again i set a pattern in motion and he knows it. How do I get through this?
Thanks for listening
NJ, wow, what a story!! What are you planning on doing?
I think, you need to divorce him – SOON. You married him so he can belegal, that brakes my heart. Why did you do that? Is his wife not legal? What about the kids?
NJSpecialK: Why would you want to be friends with someone who used you so badly? Even worse, he has used you in a way that you are legally obligated with your credit and are married to him. That takes major balls from someone and do not think for a second that he is actually remorseful or capable of remorse. He sounds like a sociopath and he knows what a doormat you are for him and will try to stay on good terms with you for your financial/legal status benefits.
I think you really need to find out why let someone do this to you. You say you still want to have him in your life. Have you thought about going to counseling? Maybe there is something in your past or family which was a model for you to allow yourself to be treated like this by someone. It sounds like you are partially aware of how badly this man has treated and used you, yet you still cannot get to the anger stage at him enough to not wan thim in your life any more and see him for who he is. You are still wondering whether he really loved and appreciated you. The fact that he used you like this shows he cannot be remorseful. People who are capable of having feelings would feel guilty about taking advantage of someone, and would not do it.
Alot about your description of this man and how your relationship with him played out points to him being a sociopathic con artist. I also think you should seek legal advice ASAP about your situation.
Hi NJSpecialK. It’s only been a week, it’s tough going, getting away from someone. Take one day at the time, keep being indifferent and keeping communications to a strict minimum and in these first couple of weeks if you find yourself missing him and almost picking up the phone to ring him, just come here instead and read these posts or get some support from us. And as you begin to see things clearer try to find a way out of this, either divorce, anything so you are not legally tied up to him. I agree you should try to get legal advice quick.
nilondoner – felt I had to explain why we chase these awful men/cant break away, I have had lots of normal relationships that end – its not working so one of you decides to call it quits and then decides its over, end of & both parties get on with things – not the case with these men!! they reel you in & then profess love & just when your getting comfortable – pull the plug on things! your then left hurting trying to get over it & all if a sudden they are back again contacting you – they miss you/cant stop thinking of you and this is music to your ears when your hurting and upset!! and you want to believe they did miss you – so you go back and they shower you with love & you start to believe again then just when your thinking everything is ok – bang they bottlle out yet again!! this time your confused – ‘how can they say they love you/miss you/start the relationship back up again and then do this’?? you ask yourself over & over -and so it starts!- the cycle of them pulling you in then pushing you away – constantly keeing you in a state of flux and your so drawn into the drama that soon its like an addiction — chasing the fantasy of how they& you both were when he reeled you in!! believe me it is not a good place to be and most of the women on this site will agree that they did not sit & think one day ‘I know i think il get involved and chase someone whos emotionally unavailable & let them treat me like shit’ i- ts just unfortunate that these men are highly manipulative and even when they are done with you they cant leave you alone to get on with your life (like when a normal relationship ends) no – they want to try & keep you hanging, they need you there just in case!! my ex eum is still contacting me even though I know hes been dating someone else, dosnt really want me but does not want me to get on with my life either – its like torture, my stomach flips everytime my phone beeps- I am maintaining no contact, but only with the help of reading this fantastic site!!
Ibby so glad you saw the light & did not sent that e-mail!! your doing so well getting on with your life – do not give this fool a second thought as I know it sounds harsh but you can bet hes not sat at home worrying about you! and believe me – I have learnt the hard way that any contact even to tell them to leave you alone is just playing right into their hands!! it just confirms to them that your still thinking about them & they still have a hold over you!! the best possible thing you can do is just carry on & get on with your life and if he does contact – then so what, youve moved on, just ignore them, its sad to say it but even friendship is not possible with these men,it really is not worth it.
BBP – I have down days too – even today I had to go over and read old threads on this site, but once I do it makes me feel so much better and posting about my experience and getting it out is better than therapy to see the harsh realitys in black & white really jolts you back & makes you put things into perspective!! – all my friends are fed up of me too – to be fair I should of paid some of them by the hour over the last 2 years!! its the looks of pity I can no longer stand though – they just look at me as if to say ‘what the f**k were you doing with that loser’!!! stay strong, even though im still a little numb I cant deny that it is getting better.
NJ – there is nothing wrong with you – you just believed him because you wanted too & he fed you so many lines, we have all been there!! you invest time and a lot of love in these men & genuinly want a committed relationship – nothing wrong with that , its just hard coming to terms with the actual reality – that these men are liars & users mostley who are not capable of normal relationships – with you or anyone (imagine how the mother of his children would feel if she knew what this jerk was up too??) my ex eum lied, cheated, manipulated, verbally abused me to the point of a break down & I still loved him too, but thats because I fell in love with a completeley different version!! we actually fall in love with a fantasy!! and we just cant accept the real version of who they are, I went back so many times always believing he would change & it never happenned & then in the end like you, I just couldnt accept another minute of his behaviour & mistreatment – I was making myself ill, thats what did it for me, no man is worth your health!! and as for your question on can you be friends – ask yourself this – if your best girlfriend had done everything he had to you, would you still be friends with her!?? have a feeling the answer would be ‘hell no!’ friends do not abuse you, you have done so much for this guy and what I can gather he has done nothing for you – you deserve a thousand times better!
Never, I feel the issues with NJ are way more serious than that, this is more than just an cheating, lying a**hole. I am starting to believe he is really a con artist, almost a criminal.
NJSpecialK, if you are still reading here, please confide in somebody, a friend, a family member, somebody that you trust and will help you and start legal proceeding, you have to divorce him first, cut the legal ties with this man and than worry about your heart. I understand that you may be afraid of any consequences marrying a man to get him legal status.
Are you in the States?
You know, it probably started out harmless at the beginning and nobody could forsee that this would end in marriage because of legal papers.
I understand about the pattern – I have done that with a man – but you can’t let him come around again. You need to look out for yourself and just being indifferent with him won’t fix anything. You are married on papers.
Please reach out to somebody, anybody that you trust and get that resolved and I am sure by the time this has been resolved you can’t stand looking at him. Don’t listen to his: you are a good friend and he is grateful and blah, blah, blah. Saying that he never promised you anything, means he doesn’t want you to expect anything and please don’t expect anything from him, but please take care of YOU, get YOUR life in order and don’t worry about him.
My heart goes out to you, your story really touched me, get smart and get busy, fix everything for YOU, put everything back the way it was for YOU before you met him.
NJ,
Does the mother of his children know that he is married? If not, she should.
Who’s name is the car in? If it is in yours I would take it back.
Honey, you’ve allowed yourself to be played big time. Time to get out of this ridiculous situation! This is crazy!
These guys love the chase and when they get you they go into neutral. There may be a time in the relationship when you are both one but it soon changes and he back-pedals. Basically while you’re basking in the glow of his promises he starts sending you mixed signals and blowing lukewarm… The problem is he doesn’t tell you outright, he just slooooooooooooooowly starts backing away little by little, all the while feeding you a line of bull that would string around the world. By then we’re sucked into the “realtionship” and it’s hard to let go of what used to be.
I think anyone that gets involved with an EUM knows in their hearts when it starts to go south way before they do anything about it. Personally I have a problem of not listening to my gut. My gut knew he was cheating but I didn’t want to believe it. So I listened to his lies until I couldn’t stand living that drama over and over. We had a good year and a half and then six months of hell. My biggest regret is that I didn’t get out sooner instead of wasting so much time with him.
It’s been three months of NC and I do believe that I’m over him. I have moments and bad days but they are so few and far between. It happened really suddenly too. It seemed I would never stop loving him and then one day I woke up and didn’t feel so sad anymore. I think the key is to keep up the NC. I can see so clearly now. I don’t care who he’s with or what he’s doing. I’m dating one guy, nothing hot or heavy and that suits me fine. Just working on myself and that’s so much more important then anything else. I know I will love again someday but I’ll never be as foolish or a doormat to any man again.
My exEUM (NC for over a month and a half) just made indirect contact. When we parted ways, I told him that the only contact I would accept is him ordering products off my website. Well he emailed my housemate asking about these products, and if my housemate would ask if was okay if he came to a festival I’m vending at to buy them. (Like, I really DO want to start bawling when I’m trying to sell product at a busy festival?) ‘Cause the products he wants, I don’t sell on my website in the forms he prefers. I used to make larger sizes in different dilutions, made *special* just the way he likes.
Now I do do a whole lot of custom orders. However, that requires direct email contact with my customers, and for me, NC is NC, even if it is business email.
He doesn’t want me, but he wants my products, but only if I customize them special for him. I am sorry, but that was something I was willing to do back when I was his girlfriend.
Good Grief.
Regina-The EUM’s always try to get to you somehow. Ask your housemate not to respond to his email or he will be baiting her/him just like he did you. It’s really not about your products anyway. You’ll find some other customer who can replace the money he spent with you. You don’t need him. Stay NC!
One EUM of mine who I haven’t heard from in over 5 yrs just tried to contact me. I didn’t respond. See, that’s how these idiots are. It’s not about you, it’s about an ego stroke. Keep your sanity and stay NC. You’re doing great!
My,
Stay strong!!!
NJ, your story is my story, just Peru instead of Colombia, and not quite as far-gone but very long-lived, 8 years now.
Nice to know I’m not the only one…
Regina – you aren’t obligated to sell anything to anybody. That’s the beauty of owning your own business. And the fact that you can see this as a clear way to keep a foot in the door you are trying to slam should give you your answer as to what to do. Remember – shades of grey. Don’t respond, don’t fill the order, DEFINITELY don’t make any special concessions for him – – he just does not deserve it, and he wouldn’t do it for you in a million years. He just wants to see if you’ll still bend over backwards for him, even if it’s only under strict work-related circumstances. Imagine if you emailed him with some special request (or lets be serious, any request at all)? You wouldn’t hear from him again for weeks probably!
And NJSpecialK – you need a lawyer, stat. This guy is, indeed, criminal and you need some legal support. I would also suggest getting counseling as soon as you can, if you can. Yes, he has all the EUM characteristics, but it sounds like he is, in fact, a much more dangerous animal than most.
Regina,
BBP is right! Why allow any contact with this guy at all. Any form of contact, even if it is through business is contact. I’d rather starve than accept a penny from this clown.
Hello Everyone
Thanks so much for your words of encouragement and support. This site has helped me tremendously!! I know I have gotten to the point where I was able to END it…. because I got soo sick and tired of the lies, of the lack of reciprication and me constantly trying to prove my love for him in hopes that I would get it in return. I have my weak moments where I sit there and doubt myself and beat myself up for the extents that I went for what I thought was LOVE for somebody! I just got involved with the wrong person! Someone who only cares about themselves. Grant it I take full responsibility for giving soo much….but in the end— is it really fair after everything to be told “Well i never asked you for anything or promised you anything” Like Carm says… that is not a friend or someone who has appreciated things or has loved me and I have to keep repeating that to myself (thanks Carm!!). I guess that hurts the most…. the fact that these types of men are so damn vacant inside…. no matter what we do or dont do we cant win!! I am trying to take responsibility for my part and doing but at the same time not trying to beat myself up for it either– for that only keeps me stuck in “VICTIM” mode. What matters now is what I do moving forward…. not going out of my way anymore for him….. having ended it with him and with some more time…. get myself completely out of this whole mess. The mother of his kids is here illegally as well…she knows he married someone for papers but she does not know that he also had a 2 year relationship with me. He has a son in Colombia as well who is 15 years old and his mother who he has not seen in 15 years!!! While I feel good as a person having given him this gift (I guess im just trying to be the better person) — he is leaving to go see them on Dec 27th…. It is a huge dilemma for me morally because me getting a divorce not only impacts him… but it impacts his son coming to the states as well. Innocent people that I feel their futures are all dependant on my decisions. How would I feel taking all of that away not from my EUM but from his family and impacting lives so severely? I dont think I could live with myself knowing that. So not sure what I am going to do yet with regards to my legal situation…. I care more now and am worried more now about my emotional well being. If I can get him out of my head and out of my heart— I can be ok with continuing my indifference, continuing minimal contact and no longer accepting his behavior, lies, etc….. what scares me are those moments (like my post from yesterday) when I actually start to feel compassion for him again, when I start doubting what I really know about him and start thinking or believing in the fantasy again… I am currently in counseling to help me through that– because that is the real issue here and for most of us I think. Its getting in touch with that unhealthy part of us that allows us to get into situations like this and that makes it so hard for us to get out. I empathisize with all of you and your stories…and am glad that I am not alone. I seek your support in getting through this… those times when I am weak and those times when I feel strong. It helps to read all your posts and your stories — I am from the states (New Jersey) so I guess when I write its afternoon/night in the UK. Either way— I visit this site on a daily basis and am glad to have found you all!!! Delibon: what is your story? You said it is similar to mine except Peru not Colombia.
Looking forward to hearing back from everyone!!! and THANK YOU AGAIN!!! =)
NJ,
You’re not responsible for his kid. He is! You are still putting this man and his family before you, it’s time to move on and stop making excuses-sorry so harsh-to hold on to this guy.
How many women and children does this guy have is his life? It doesn’t sound like he is responsible to an one.
Why don’t you inform the girlfriend of the relationship????? Are you going to take back the car and c.c.s ?
NJSpecialK, have you ever asked yourself why the mother of his kids – living here – has not married him??
NJSpecialK
I just read your posts…. this is a very serious situation. How long have you been married to this man? As far as legal action or divorce you can have the marriage “annulled” – meaning it never existed depending on how long you have been married. Certain states allow annullment if the marriage is less than 6 months. I would definitely contact a lawyer.
As far as YOUR concern for his children… you need to back away from that if possible. Where was HIS concern for his children? He seems more concerned about his needs than ANYONE else.
Ugh… this is sooo hard guys!! I don’t know how to get to that place (atleast not yet) where I can take everything away from him…. knowing that taking away the car and the car insurance leaves him without a ride to work (we work together by the way– which sucks even more!!!) which means he can lose his job…. which means I WILL BE THE ONE RESPONSIBLE for at first,,,,, helping him with his life— and in the end basically ruining it!! I dont think i can do that. He makes his payments on time and the car should be payed in full by this August…as well as the credit cards. Once that is done he can get his own car insurance… and maybe by then i dont know… I will be stronger to get a divorce? Or to think about things more clearly or atleast with much less emotional attachment??? I just cant see myself taking these things away. I feel like I said… ok here,,, I will help you with no strings attached…..and then in the end I go back on my word!!! I guess I need more help than I thought!!! I offered to help him… because his story touched my heart but in the middle of all of this he turned out to be an ASS!!! Shame on me for not having seen that sooner…… I dont know ….. =( Him and the mother of his kids never got married because you cannot get married if both parties are illegal (well atleast in the states). They have two children together one is 3 and the other is 9. They have been together for 12 years and according to what he says…. they are no longer in love etc…… he left colombia when his son (from a different relationship) was only about 9months old in hopes of getting a job and supporting them from the states (which he has been doing ever since) and because of his illegal status— has not been able to return for 15 years!!! Both his family here as well as in Colombia basically solely rely on him for support.
OK— HELP!!!! I dont want be unreasonable… I dont want to look like the bad one in this whole situation!! I just want to be ok emotionally…not needing him… not wanting him…. not looking for him…. not waiting for his phone call. For some reason I dont care about the rest……..just ME GETTING OUT and my emotional well being.. Am I missing something or is there something that I am not getting??? Sorry guys– I guess I am just not there yet…. =*(
NJSpecialK – unfortunately, this is such a mess that you will probably be seen as “the bad one.” I know you’re afraid of doing that, but honestly, although that will suck and hurt your feelings, you will also see the other (real) side of this guy and it will make you understand even more why you need to get away. To RUN away in fact. Do look into annulment – that could be a really good option. The worst that could happen is that he stops making payments on the car – so you have to make some car payments. Not a great prospect, but worth your mental health. I would say wash your hands of the car – consider it a loss and let him have it, that way you don’t feel like you are the reason why he won’t be able to work. Cancel the insurance – he can get his own, it’s easy, and you don’t need to pay his bills.
As for the job – start looking for something new. I’m serious.
You’re the only one preventing you from getting out!
Do you ask yourself what you get from this relationship?
How did this man survive all this years w/o you???? If you go with the thinking that you would feel responsible if you took the car away, therefore being responsible for his livelihood, then why don’t you just support his two girlfriends and three children? Perhaps, you could get another job or maybe take out a loan.
Why doesn’t the man take the bus? The public transport situation in Nj is quite extensive. You are not responsible for his job. He is.
You’re are clearly allowing yourself to be taken advantage of in this situation, you’ve got to take responsibility for yourself.
NJ, start by talking to a Lawyer to see what options you have.
Don’t think annulment will be an option, you married him to get him legal status and that is a felony. How long have you been married?
NJ, I have to agree with everyone else here about this guy. He’s using you so bad it’s criminal. Matter of fact it is criminal in the US. You’re so busy worrying about what he will think about you going back on your word, when you forget to consider the fact that this man has gone back on every word he’s spoken to you. You don’t owe him or his children, and baby mothers, girlfriends, etc. Anything. Just typing all of that sounds complete upseting even to me, and I’m not in your shoes. This man has used you and will continue you use you legally and emotionally as long as you allow it. He’s a con artist of the worst sort. You’re too busy beating yourself up right now to see the forrest for the trees. This is not a matter in which you should wait a while on and then do something about. What if he decides tomorrow that he wanted to take a house out in your name? Because you are legally married to him he could really screw you over financially more than he’s ever done emotionally. Please see a lawyer right away and then a counselor soon too. Please RUN from this situation like the the devil was after your immortal soul. This guy is the devil.
NJ,
We are all telling you to take care of your legal situation ASAP, even before addressing your emotional attachment to this guy because there is potential for this guy to take advantage of you further with your credit and finances BIG TIME. You may not care about this aspect now, as you are emotionally hurting now, but chances are you will care later if he starts taking out credit lines and screwing up your life financially. The emotional impact if that happens will be devastating if you do not protect yourself and your boundaries.
How did he get to work before you got him a car? How did he survive before he met you? Come on! He will not lose his job. Why do you see it as your resposibility for this man to support his family(ies)? He chose to impregnate these women and it is his and the women’s responsibilty to support them. Don’t worry, he and his family will not be deported if you divorce him, and you will not “ruin ” their lives, they can still remain here illegally. When his kids turn 18 they can petition for their parents to become legal. This guy is not the only illegal immigrant in the US with a family, and their well being is not your responsibility, and they will survive without your assistance.
How much do you really know about him? Where there is one lie, there are usually many more. This is why we are so concerned about your situation, because if this guy is capable of what he has done so far, he may be capable of a whole lot more.
I think Nikki is 100% right that you are unable to see the forest for the trees at this moment. Please listen to us as we can see this situation maybe more clearly than you can right now.
You will not look like the “bad one” if you take everything back and PROTECT yourself. You will look like the smart and sensible one. You did not make any promises to him, just as you say he didn’t make any promises to you.
Yes, you can still have the marriage annulled. You do not have to admit you married him for legal staus. BTW, did you apply to immigration yet for his green card? What stage are you at in the process? Please, please see a lawyer as soon as you can, and get yourself legally untangled from this guy.
NJ, his story touched your heart because that is what sociopaths do, they manipulate people’s compassion and and they spot vulnerabilities in people and use them to their advantage. I guarantee you he did not turn into an “ass” until after you married him and got him set up with the car. Please, do some research on the internet about sociopaths. It will help you feel less compassion for him.
Only this friday I was sat at home feeling like a complete prick. The nobhead was supposed to be taking me out and didn’t show.
Well, I was crying but it was because I knew I had let it happen again.
The next day I I thought, wouldn’t it be great not to be thinking about him. I mean, I lived without him for years, before I met him and I didn’t drop dead, in fact life was good! Perhaps it was his final act of nobbishness that made me realize- I actually want to be free from all this shit. When we first met I had just gone through a major break-up of a five year relationship. Then a load of relatives died in a short space of time. I never really gave myself time to get over it all, I just carried on.
Talk about easy prey, I must have been like little red riding hood!
And the description of the manchild and how I have acted over the past year is so spot-on. Its kind of depressing reading but it has woken me up- I don’t want to go on like this and I certainly don’t want to blame a man for all my shit. So hurrah! Bring it on! Lets face the future with some honesty!
Hi blue_girl, welcome and we salute your bravery and resolve!
NJ, I hope we are not overwhelming you. Ladies, lets try not to “pile on” with our advice and concern! I have had my stupid teenage (tho I’m 46) delusional sh!t jumped in this forum and it was just too much for me at that time. I want to wish you the best and I know that just you being here with us means that sooner or not-so-later you will do what you need to do to take care of yourself. You came here because you already knew that you had that strength, and we believe in you.
I think it is because we have all been hurt that we are so protective of each other.
Take care dear, and let us know of your progress. Seeing each other get better is the best medicine we can offer.
Are all the women on this site in their mid-forties?
Har har. Gaynor, maybe they wouldn’t be so EUM with a woman who was not so close to her sell-by date.
Ladies – Im 30!! dont think its anything to do with age!! (hope this makes you feel better!!)
Natalie – any chance of a post on how to stay NC over the Christmas Period!!?? for some reason with the holiday coming up Im starting to feel lonely & a bit of a loser if im honest!! – Help!!
Dear NJ,
I feel for you…You are great person and I understand you perfectly well – you feel in love with this guy thats why you done what you done!
You know, what I am afraid of when he recieves his permanent residency, he will divorce you and marry his illegal girlfriend (of 12 years) in order to make her legal in USA…
So please think about it too…I can see you are kind-hearted lady, but you must think about yourself first and concentrate on your own life, even it is hard in the beginning!!! I wish you all the best….
NML and ladies, have a lovely Christmas!
Oh Yikes! This site is invaluable to me. I realize I choose the Manchild type. It makes me cringe, laugh and squirm all at once. I was thinking, “Oh yes, this one and that one were Manchildren….then I went, “so was ‘so and so’ and ‘so and so’!!”
There is a wink wink nod nod thing about “Cougars” in society….and I just assumed that I was a “Cougar”.
But what I am – is terrified of a “real man” who is more mature, together emotionally, financially, etc.
Now. What to do with this information…..hmmm
hi texas girl i feel like in the same situation as you, having had the doh! moment when i realised what rubbish I was tolerating.
The bloke who stood me up last friday came round last week with a big present and was all apologetic. I took the present because it seemed childish not to and then asked him to leave. Since then I have not contacted him at all. He hasnt contacted me either. Its really bloody hard not to think about it though. Especially this time of year. Most of my family and friends are married/loved up/ in relationships. I really feel like a freak because I’m not. It also annoys me that its more acceptable to be in a bad relationship if you are a woman, than to be in no relationship at all.
What is getting me through all this is a bit of selfishness. Im just focusing on me and what I want to do for 2009. Im thinking about all the time and energy I will have, and what I want to do and where I want to be. Ths answer is as far away as possible from the sad person who was staying in on a friday waiting for her man who never turned up! So that is my advice, make some plans for 2009 and start to work at making them real before December 31st. That way you will have some great positive things planned out for next year and on NYE you can think about them.
OMG I lived with an asshole/assclown for 5 years, and actually accepted a wal-mart diamond. He beat me then said I deserved it…
My best friend interceded, and helped me pack all of my things, clothes cat, and computer, to move 800 miles away from him! He in turn moved an hour from my new place, and TRIED TO RECONCILE only to send me a pic of him shagging another woman on MY BIRTHDAY. I am so glad to be rid of him. I then replaced him with the FLIPFLAPPER, only to be dumped after his YEAR LONG DIVORCE BATTLE became final, and his EXWIFE was the one who intitiated it; he stalled it. Then I dove head first into the MANCHILD…his mom was sick from cancer, and he HATED HER FOR INFRINGING ON HIS TIME so I am at fault for being an OPTIMIST. great. NOT.
back on Dec 11…nilonder wisely asked…
why do you put yourselves through the humiliation of being rejected once more?
I can understand pining for them even when they misbehave or obsessing when they are not there… but why keep chasing them?
I don’t mean to be rude or hurtful but I genuine want to know
here is one story
I was once just like you, neve could fathom women who suffered bad treatment, loved all my life by decent men, attractive, happy, popular, great job…. and then when i was 40 an arseclown landed in my life. Ten years later I am starting to see it for what it is…he is just a no good guy, he sort of knows it, he sees no need to wrok on it…hence arseclown is a really good word for these guys
He started off by telling me he was a misogynist, of course I did not beleive him, never having known a person who actually had no desire to love and work at respecting others. HAd I ever met a flake before I would have seen this as the first of many red flags.
It went on and on from there, he had me fooled by what I believed was a special connection, which I now think is the desired result of their method of operation
They tell you how they are depressed, have no friends, how bad they are, how sad their past, ….and they are so busy, so stressed, so taken advantage of… and so then, when they do give, the few crumbs they come up with actually make you feel special,….yes it sounds looney, and all I can say is you can find yourself involved in this scam before you are quite aware what is going on.
And I supsect the arseclown is acting out of habit, not really even caring about the damage they do to themselves and others.
They are incapable of meaningful giving, of being or staying open, of depth of connection… as soon as you get close, they freak and back off, and then come creeping back for another attempt.
Why do we do it? I bet there are all kinds of reasons, but if you are a genuinely nice person, confident, were raised to help others, you may get trappeed by one of the poor pitiful me arseclowns, and worse, think that you can give them the help they are subconsciously seeking ( which is why they are drawn to the genuinely nice people in the first place)
And if you are an optimist, and a hard worker, and a happy loving person it will get worse, the more you give the less you will get, and the more you will be left confused and wanting all that is missing
But rest assured, arseclowns do not want to do any work on their stuff, that is what makes them a clown, they are just not very good at devloping emotionally, and have no desire to learn.
What a great call the word assclown is for them.
Such a mess these guys make, but in all fairness I did get addicted to the drama, though why all that drama seemed like love and something special is still a mystery to me.
Recently, I started to hoping the clown would come around as a waste of time. And now I am going through withdrawl, this will be OK
Think I’ll paint a fun picture involving the clown, and an arse, and the words ” won’t get fooled again, ” …. art therapy
Happy New Year everyone, thanks for being here. Reading this gives me strength to continue NC, to regain the sane self I knew for forty years before the arseclown was part of my life. We will get by !
I had a little bit of Assclown, a little bit of Lier… throw all the little spices in there! I recognized my patterns when it came to dating Men who Lied; yes I didn’t want to see the truth and was living not in reality which was from living in an abusive and substance abuse childhood “don’t tell, dont feel, don’t trust — etc… sort of msgs” and make pertend everything is alright while you have a sinking feeling in your stomach… which played out in my dating relationships and friendships. As far as the Assclowns — yeah I liked the excitement and drama and although intellectually I knew I didn’t deserve an assclown — emotionally it was obvious I did… I think the assclowns, lies, etc all blended in with the things I had to heal… and now that I have grown alot in the past year alot has changed. I ended 3 toxic friendship/family and dating relationships that weren’t serving my happiness — and will get recognize and get into a healthy relationship!!