A few days ago I wrote about The Justifying Zone, that slippery slope that women can find themselves on when they stick with a guy so that they can justify their emotional or sexual investment, even if they recognise that that the relationship is doomed. A couple of male commenters raised the point that sometimes a guy just wants sex, which of course made me want to revisit this subject.
Ladies, we like to see shades of grey, read between the lines, and see gold (or even platinum) where there is in fact copper, but sometimes sex, really is just that; SEX. It’s not the beginning of a grand love affair, it’s not an indicator of greater things to come, and it’s not a great idea to base a relationship solely off how good a guys strokes are.
The trouble is, are guys honest enough to say that sex is just sex?
Guys, we are not frickin’ mind readers. We don’t find out things by osmosis and there are many men out there that do not own a pair of brass balls to be upfront and honest about their intentions, or should I say, sexual intentions. Instead, because they don’t want to be perceived as a total bastard and of course they don’t actually want to endanger the possibility of actually getting laid, they bring on all the hearts, flowers, charm, and hints of more to come, only to have to backtrack and make a rapid disappearance afterwards.
This is all a double edged penis sword. Yes we should both be adult enough to screw like rabbits and walk away but we are humans. Casual sex is rarely just ‘casual’ and it’s only casual sex if BOTH parties know that they’re having casual sex in the first place!
As far as I’m concerned, it is just sex if:
One or both of you actually say it is
You meet and screw in the same night (one night stand)
The only thing that exists between you both irrespective of how long you have known each other is sex
Anything else is open to misinterpretation and it is alarming how many women will still see it as more even if it is one of the above situations.
‘Yeah but we talk a lot’ one woman said to me recently. Moaning, groaning, asking when you can meet up, and making small talk to facilitate you both having sex and appearing polite is NOT talking a lot!
Whilst I do think that we can be guilty of building sandcastles in the sky on occasion, I have to say here that much of the ambiguity that surrounds sex and women feeling the need to justify the fact that they slept with the guy by investing themselves further is caused by ambiguous, hard to read men who blow hot and cold and leave everything ‘literally’ wide open to interpretation. So guys, if it’s just sex, maybe you should start by saying it is, or avoid going for women who clearly want more than you’re actually able to give!
But…ladies, ladies, ladies, heed the signs. If it walks like duck, quacks like a duck, and flaps its pretty little wings like a duck, it’s a duck. Pause for a moment the next time you’re in this situation and strip away all of the rationalising, reasoning, and justifying, and ask yourself if you have anything left besides a walking, talking…penis.
NML, I think there has to be another qualification to make sex casual. The lady can’t be thinking. As in, mobile but seriously under the influence. Otherwise she doesn’t have the shield of ‘I wasn’t thinking’, and there you are on the slippery slope again..
As for why the confusion, consider this. Guys don’t have much control over their partner. That is, we are completely untrained, after the initial contact, about what happens next. Instead of base ulterior motives, for the most part the goal is ‘see if this step works’. If it gets up between the sheets – that is winning the lottery, not another conquest (except for the cads, that is). If we get to a kiss, a cuddle – we are completely wrapped up in what the lady will allow, with no possible room to think about why we are there.
Which is a big reason to pick your partner for good and sufficient reasons – before you start getting close. Separate the learners from the dedicated predators (i.e., ‘casual sex’). For the learners, ‘casual sex’ means unplanned – the pace and goal of the encounter is unplanned, beyond going as far as she allows, the context is unplanned, beyond encouraging her to allow more, and anything beyond a possible repeat encounter is just pipe dreams.
Sorry. For most of the good guys, it isn’t lack of interest in a relationship, it is failure to plan – as in, waiting for marriage or something similar.
Just be sure to avoid the slick talkers practiced at making a lady feel comfortable and stirs erotic feelings. The good guys won’t be nearly as practice – the first or second time he makes contact with a good woman, she keeps him and he isn’t interested in looking for someone else.
NML, this is a great post. I’m an advocate of casual sex, but the fact is (this me agreeing with you) that MOST people can’t handle it for whatever reasons. On the guy’s side, I’d like to throw out a number…I want to say 95% of guys are too insecure or too dumb to handle a casual sex or friends-with-benefits situation. I strongly believe that women are more capable of handling casual sex on an emotional level because they are naturally more skilled at managing emotions. Guys, on the other hand, are built for casual sex on a biological level, but generally they’re emotional infants, so there’s a big conflict. This is my theory, and I wouldn’t mind hearing dissenting opinions. Anyway, I’ll say the number for chicks is like 65%, maybe even closer to a coin flip, on who can handle casual sex.
Typical guys will duck, dodge, get closed up, lie, make relationship promises, and do all kinds of stupid things in order to get laid. I can’t tell you how many men I know (including myself) that have suffered through lengthy, mis-matched relationships because they’re getting sex regularly. When I say suffer, I mean suffering for both partners.
They do this because they’re afraid of taking the risky route and simply saying, “I’m ONLY interested in being friends and screwing, NOT a relationship.” She could very well say no thanks, but guess what? You’re saving both people a WORLD of grief.
This is exactly why I’m a blogger and an advocate for more enlightenment in the dating world. I hate seeing douchebaggy guys who fumble around and hurt their partners and themselves because they don’t know what the hell they’re doing. And I hate seeing bitter, overly-cautious chicks who have to wait 3 months before having sex just to make sure a guy is really all in.
We all want great sex. Sometimes we want a relationship. Sometimes we just want to screw. It’s possible to have it both ways.
cheekie
on 01/03/2008 at 8:09 pm
Well, as you know, I am a huge proponent of casual sex, when it is honest and healthy.
I don’t need to be ‘incapacitated’ as an excuse for my guilt the next day as Brad mentions.
Nor do I have any shame in admitting to having been in this situation, of my own free will accord.
(read my previous article here on CSBF)
and sometimes, in the best possible situation, you are and can still be friends. it is a great deal.
But, if I like someone and am interested in long term, I don’t go this route, simply because I want to ensure that he does want me for me and not for my bedroom behaviour. Which of course he will eventually get, and definitely in shorter than 3 months! OMG, I don’t think I could wait that long, forget the guy!!! LOL
Again, it’s all about being 100% honest with yourself. No regrets, no shame, no justification.
That’s the only way respect will happen.
And that is key in a FB situation…
🙂
aphexcoil
on 02/03/2008 at 2:35 am
Women are better equiped in dealing with casual sex than men? Ummm, I don’t think that’s the case. In fact, women usually view sex as an act of emotional acceptance of their relationship. Men generally view sex more on the physical aspect and women more on the emotional. This is not to say that this is ALWAYS true with all women and men, but this is generally the case.
Point in case — when men cheat by having sex with another women, they generally are doing so for more physical reasons. Women, on the other hand, generally will cheat because there is some type of emotional deficit within their relationship.
Also, men are emotional infants? Again, that’s a glossy statement. I don’t know about how you grew up, but I had a lot of enriching experiences with women and I learned a lot about women from interacting with my mother — that’s how most men begin their education on the female sex. To say that a man is an emotional infant into his 20’s and 30’s is a very naive statement.
The bottom line is this. Both women and men can enjoy casual “no strings attached” sex, but they both have to go into it with that clear expectation that it is just for physical enjoyment. If one or both enter the act of sex with unsure intentions, someone could easily wind up getting hurt.
Like so many other things in life, communication is paramount and if you’re going to dabble in casual sex, you had better prepare yourself for the ramifications because sex is still an intensely personal and private experience despite what shows like Sex in the City would have you believe.
Different Opinion
on 03/03/2008 at 12:06 pm
“Casual sex is rarely just ‘casual’ and it’s only casual sex if BOTH parties know that they’re having casual sex in the first place!”
This is very true. But if casual sex becomes regular sex, boy and female are likley to want a relationship.
richard strauss
on 10/03/2008 at 8:30 pm
on the whole “men or women who can handle casual sex better?” issue i will just say there is such variation from person to person in terms of emotional development at all ages that its really luck of the draw,
again i am an advocate of casual sex and until recently i was a practicer of it too
the one peice of advice i have to a guy who is after casual sex but doesnt want to risk losing sex over being upfront about it is this, 9/10 the girl who is up for casual sex is much much better at sex than the one who wants a relationship and wont settle for anything else.
that is not to say women who are good at sex dont want relationships or even that they will accept less than a relationship. (the disclamer)
if you are unsure on the relationship side but know you want to have sex with a girl tell her this, let her know ur uncertain about the one thing and sure about the other, its just honesty, but aside from that you look so much better, i mean from her point of view you are an honest man who has the balls to admit and be open about his feelings.
oh and fyi to all those innexperienced guys out there having sex with different girls only makes you better at it if your not scared to admit to them that your not perfect in bed and ask them what they like, remember she will think you are a mindreader let her know you arent. plus staying with the one girl untill you know exactly what she wants in bed doesnt guarantee good sex, your best bet for great sex is some experience, some natural talent, a steep learning curve and a little bit of luck
anyway good luck to all you people seeking casual sex out there, remember men and women may be inherently different in many ways but we both want sex
Josh
on 01/12/2008 at 4:51 am
The fact that men are incapable of casual sex is the most-biased close-minded thing I have ever heard.
I am a MAN
I have had a few casual-sex partners over the years.
If they were open to it. I always made sure that she knew that it was Friends with benefits.
and before we started to engage in the act of sex I made sure she was clear. Even afterwards, I made sure that she was alright.
Their have been women who took it too far and wanted more.Those women are the women I no longer have sex with.
Josh, I am a little lost by your comment because nobody said that men were incapable of casual sex…. Quite the opposite…
ARulesGirl2theEnd
on 09/01/2009 at 10:37 pm
Heres a tip: when a man says ‘ I just wanna meet someone to go out wiv, have some fun wiv…’ run for the freakin hills ladies. In my experience ‘…fun…’ is sex, JUST SEX, not I want a girlfriend, a wife, for you to have my children, you could be my soul mate, HOT SEX!! Men are simple creatures, they dont lie, (only when trying to get their arses outta a sticky situation) we tend not to listen. LISTEN UP LADIES!!!! start takin responsibility for your heart, dont be anyones bit of fun, if you want to get married.!!!
Sweetie187
on 22/07/2009 at 9:34 am
To ARulesGirl2theEnd,
I agree with you one hundred percent. When a guy mentions the word “fun” in the context of what he is looking for in a woman, he usually means CASUAL, NO-STRINGS SEX. This is applicable, whether he is verbally saying it to your face, or mentioning it in his online dating profile. So Ladies, be warned!
jayne
on 26/08/2009 at 7:10 am
I have no problem with casual sex…I have a very strong sex drive.I just find it sooo annoying when it is assumed that I have to be lied to or a guy is unsure of his own motives and what he wants. I recently confronted my guy about this and said…I just want to know where you/we) stand …if we are fuck buddies-fine-I’m a grown-up-I just want to make informed decisions about my life!When he couldn’t or wouldn’t give me a staight answer…it took a bad turn… now it looks bleak….we have not been in contact really and I feel hurt and ignored.I was as honest as possible and I really miss the sex and physical attention! Women want hot, great and regular sex as much as guys! Why the double standard? Why is my guy so afraid to be honest with me?I don’t want this hassle so its over- is that make me a dog?!
Beznik
on 14/09/2009 at 7:07 am
Well Ive experienced a lot of women that play hard to get. They talk for a long time they tell you they love you they say they want more but then get surprisingly cold whenever the guy tries to get more intimate. As if having sexual intentions or hopes makes my attempt to have a meaningful emotional bond a lie. I happen to like an emotional bond and some romance before i try to stick any of my body parts into her body parts. But at the end of the day I still want to do it. A lot of girls seem to think a guy that is sensitive nice and interested in a relationship doesn’t want or need sex. But “nice guys” are horny too and aren’t any less good in bed. Experiences with girls like that make a lot of men become distant at the start of a relationship. I think a lot of girls reward the stupid male behaviors they hate as adults while they are in high schooI used to say I love you when I felt it, usually before she did. But if I ever hope to see her naked I better not. If I do I will get to hold her in my arms fully clothed while she cries on my shoulder about how much of an asshole her boyfriend is and after i cheer her up and rebuild her self esteem shes off to some make up sex with that asshole. Not to say there aren’t a lot of guys that play lie to and abuse women. It works both ways. In the relationship I was in I feel like a power thing was going on my girlfriend felt that cuz I loved her I was the only person in the world she could push around. Im done with that now. ultimately i think relationship problems are between people not between the sexes.
hurt
on 04/10/2009 at 7:34 pm
“Whilst I do think that we can be guilty of building sandcastles in the sky on occasion, I have to say here that much of the ambiguity that surrounds sex and women feeling the need to justify the fact that they slept with the guy by investing themselves further is caused by ambiguous, hard to read men who blow hot and cold and leave everything ‘literally’ wide open to interpretation. ”
i’m still in in process of healing after having “sex” relation with an guy who blow hot and cold for almost 2 year. He was nice in beginning to get me where he wants and i was already in love with him so i did everything just to be with him. Sex was very good and we both felt very strong attraction but the only diffrent was that i fell in love with him and he wanted only sex. I can’t describe the feeling of “hurt” i felt each time after we had sex and this guy words” I’m off now”. I wanted him so bad that i could not stop it. I’m now in 2 months “no contact rule” so i hope i will be strong to let him go forever but it is so damn difficult!
Jason
on 14/10/2009 at 11:53 pm
Ohh god, casual sex is easy for a man!!! We love sex and often make the mistake of allowing a women to “assume” that the two of you are in a relationship. Let me explain before I get attacked. First, it better be known that the relationship is not going any further then the physical. SPELL IT OUT, BE A MAN AND SAY IT!!!!! Second, Only see that person a few times a month. The general rule of thumb is once a week, I rather keep it once, every other week. Seeing a women three to four times a week, and sleeping together, cuddling and kissing can cause some women, to feel that there might be something there ect… we are only human, you sleep with someone often and enjoy the benefits of a relationship, then someone is going to develop feelings at some point. Man or women, more often then not, it is the women that starts to feel this way. It sucks having to break someones heart. Some men, or should I say “pussys” rather not break the womens heart, Yeah more like you love getting ass and you can’t be a man and tell the women whats up. Don’t lie to yourself and try to make it seem like your doing it for her. I will admit, I was Mr. Unavailable, with a women who use to be a FWB, and we spent every day together. I did care for her, and told her that I had love FOR her, just not the love she had for me. Yeah, I knew better then to let her stick around, just needed to grow up A LOT. For any guy who falls into that, ITS HARDER THE LONGER YOU WAIT, AND IF YOU CARE THAT MUCH ABOUT HER FEELINGS YOU WILL LEAVE HER AND LET HER GET OVER YOU!!!!!! I will end it with that. LOL, but just remember FWB, can work, if you 1) set the ground rules 2) Only see each other once a week AT MAX!! ( the less the better) and 3) Wrap you tool, lord knows there is enough STD’s out there, play safe!!! To end this, I do hope that most men know that MOST women like to feel that sex “Just happened” and don’t like it all planned out! Us guys can make plans for it, women don’t feel as good about it when it is all planned out. Just my opinion. 🙂
Gayle
on 15/10/2009 at 7:32 pm
Jason,
Are you saying you are no longer an EUM?
What were your thoughts when you were continuing this type of arrangement and knew that she was in love with you?
Jason
on 17/10/2009 at 1:17 am
Whoa, Okay Gayle from what I can tell you know this women is or was in love with you. I don’t have many details and it is hard to say; but, I will put in some scenario’s that may be the case.
You say “was,” She could either be telling you that because she wants to play a little hard to get, or she could be telling the truth, yet still find you attractive enough to sleep with. Depending on the kind of women you have. Like I said I have very little to go by, just that if you want to be her friend, then be her friend, if you want to be her FWB, then be that. There is no happy ground that I have found, and it is dangerous waters you are treading in, where hers or even your emotions can be severally hurt in the long run.
My story was that I was being both, her friend and her FWB. I will just say HB, short for “Hump Buddy.” As her friend, we hung out everyday and did whatever and always had a good time. Now, I couldn’t see myself with her long term, and she kept telling me that she liked me a lot and even asked me out and I said no, along with something stupid like ” Im not ready to date yet, maybe later on down the road.” I figured to myself that maybe she would grow on me and I would change my mind at some point.
She got herself a Boyfriend and it was turmoil for me, I wanted her in the worse way imaginable; so I thought. Yeah, when I had my chance with her, I took it and wasn’t really happy with her, treated her like less then nothing. This girl is one with a big heart, I am not proud of these events in anyway and I didn’t seem to know better at the time. So it was off and on for three years, she was living three states over and STILL wanted to be with me. I figured it would be good and made sure that we had a blast the few times a month we saw each other. Six flags, sailing for entire weekend “making love under the stars out on the ocean. ect…” Yeah, she cried all the other days of each passing month, as I didn’t really mind at all. Now, she was and still is VERY attractive, that wasn’t the problem. She was fun to be around and shared all my values, then again she adopted all of them. She was just so clingy and needy. She didn’t have a drivers license at 22 years of age and I didn’t like being asked to drive her too and from work. Her mother has a drinking problem and I was always there trying to console her over it. I felt like I couldn’t breath and just couldn’t see getting married to her so what is the point. Yeah, it was bad and she even pulled the ” I was in love with you, but I am over it” routine on me. I KNEW BETTER. Shouldn’t of done all of that and in the end, I lost her to a very large, Muscle builder and it was everything I deserved for pain and then some. Woke me up to a few things and I wanted to have someone to connect with and love, to share my life with. That was three years ago, October 3. Since then I have had a rebound and one VERY successful relationship that went a little haywire. Lets just say we are now both on Anti depressants and I saw her today Ironically, the first time in three months. Even thought I want to remain single for awhile (and so doesn’t she) it was nice to see her after such a long time has passed. (random Tangent)
Back to that women in question. If she has made mention of feelings like that then choose being Just Friends, or HB’s. Tread lightly and even thought it is kinda rude, DON’T CALL THE NEXT DAY. Yeah, can make a women feel a little slutty and all, but you are not dating her and she HAS been told what it is going to be from the start. Personally, I would just find someone else, maybe someone you can see something happening with long term, but, you live and you learn. Good luck Gayle 🙂 Be careful, telling you at one point that she loves you, can mean she has some very powerful feelings towards you, and make sure you talk to her without ambiguities!! Make sure she knows that you don’t want, and will not want, anything else but a sex partner for a night or maybe a few others and you hope she finds someone that will be good for her.
Gayle
on 17/10/2009 at 5:39 pm
Hi Jason,
I’m a woman and I think you may have confused me with another poster (first and last paragraph).
I wanted your perspective to see if there is any acknowledgment of the EUM behavior at the time.
It is true, it takes getting your heart broken for one to realize the dangerous patterns they have been following, I am happy to hear that you have opened your heart and are receptive to a loving heathy relationship.
Jason
on 18/10/2009 at 12:19 am
Yeah, sorry about the mix up. I’m not the best with names. I guess it is all about growing up. I was a late bloomer, and my emotional awareness was not developed enough to understand what kind of pain can be brought on. It was one of the best things ever to have been dumped like that and I am so glad she didn’t take me back, cause deep down, I knew it would go right back to the way it was before.
Astelle
on 18/10/2009 at 7:25 am
Jason, how old are you? You are a user – that much I can tell you – if you are in your early 20’s, I will cut you some slack, if you are older than that – you are a user, period. Comfort yourself with ‘thinking” she knew all along what I wanted – right, because that still makes you a user!
2much2handle
on 19/10/2009 at 3:24 pm
Astelle:
A bit harsh remark to Jason no?? Tone it down a notch….
Not for anything but I feel Jason is being honest in what he is saying. Not only that but he did mention that he felt bad or did think its wrong not to be upfront with a woman in letting her know that its just about “casual sex” and also, not using the “I Love you” words just to get someone into bed.
There is nothing wrong with “casual sex” and its not using another person if its consentual and if its told upfront. There are many women who like Jason, aren’t looking for a “relationship” but are looking just for someone to fulfill that need or to spend that kind of time with without being emotionally attached.
I dont think Jason (or any other man for that matter) is being a user if he’s honest and his intentions are being stated upfront. Us women do have to learn to LISTEN better and not run and make castles in the sky thinking that we can turn into something more AFTER we have been clearly told that its just a casual fun encounter that is desired from the other party. And men need to learn to be more honest and upfront and not give us mixed signals that might be interepreted as something “more” than just casual sex. If a man or woman wants sex and tells/asks you upfront if your up for that, thats not being a user….thats being an “adult” where you get to make up your mind if your down for that sort of thing or not. Let me know what the playing field looks like so I can decide whether or not i want to play. If more men (and women) were upfront about just wanting “casual sex” it would alleviate so much of the mis interpretations. We need more men like Jason who arent afraid of being upfront and bold about it so that us women can know what we want to do without being led down the hot/cold road or being stung along. Its the one’s that arent honest about it or intentionally “use” words or our vulnerability to get what they want without regards to our emotions that are the real “USERS”.
Jason
on 19/10/2009 at 3:31 pm
Astelle,
See you have had some bad experience’s yourself, but calling someone else a user for something they admit they have done, doesn’t change whatever happened to yourself.
Based on your hostility, it’s clear you have had someone hurt you deeply, or bared witness to someone close to you going through suck pain. Sorry for whatever happened that has caused you to lash out. Hope you get past it and find someone who treats you right, if you haven’t already.
Jason
on 20/10/2009 at 6:28 pm
2much2handle,
I’m actually not looking for causal sex. I am really bored of it and find it a waste of my time. I know what I am looking for and only found it once. I just seem to see all those that I am not interested in EVERYWHERE. book stores, grocery store, bars, (clubs were a given) at my college, (too young for my liking) and I even tried the Internet without any luck. I’m attracted to Smart with a thirst for knowledge, has style and two loving parents, and doesn’t want kids tell they have been married for at least 4 years. (I’m sorry, but in my book if you are not using protection then you ARE trying to have kids.) Yeah, the day I can find someone I can feel completely open too, is the day I start dating someone again. It has taken me 26 years, so i figure what is another 26 years.
Confused
on 24/10/2009 at 4:12 pm
Jason, quick question as you’re so insighful- I’ve been having casual sex with this married but separate guy and i don’t really talk about myself much as I view this as only casual sex. He doesn’t even know my real name. When we meet up he’s very inquisitive and says flattering things and for this reason I’m confused, this is my first casual encounter and I thought that been cold and distant would ensure neither of us gets confusion about the situation, instead what I think has happened is my mysterious potrayal is causing him to act more emotionally inimate. What’s your advice. We have great sex and I don’t want to lose that but I’m getting confused.
paquita
on 30/10/2009 at 11:41 pm
I have been sleeping with an attached man for nearly a year now. When it started I had just broken up from my partner of 13 years father of my 2 children. My lover, as i choose to call him, i had known and fancied for as long as i have known my ex. So when he knocked at my door barely a month after my ex had gone I was estatic and totally wanting to have something with him. He told me he was separated from his partner of 21 years and we started an amazing sexual relationship. I had not felt so happy in years! However at New Year he went back to his partner. To be honest I don’t think he had ever left! But it was too late, i accepted even suggested i would be his mistress and we carried on seeing eachother. We get together once a week or so and I have asked of him to text me everyday. Our sexual connection is trully unbelievable but the trouble is i have fallen in love with him, madly in love. Now as Jason says if you are nice, cuddly and kissy; if you say it is not just about sex and you show you care for the person, then he/she will get attached. That is what has happened to me. I thought I could be a mistress and just that but i am now suffering every day waiting for his text, thinking about him constantly, living for the snached moments spent with him and gradually coming to terms that he will never leave his misses and that he will probably never be with me.Great sex can lead you to fall in love trust me.
Jason
on 24/11/2009 at 10:22 pm
Confused-
Sorry for the tardiness of this, I have been very busy with school and my own love life.
You wrote “When we meet up he’s very inquisitive and says flattering things.” This can mean a ton of different things from him wanting more to him wanting to know a little more about who he is sleeping with.
You seem to be confused about your feelings and how to handle this situation which if you were worried about his feelings then the only thing to do is stop seeing him. I wish I could tell you more yet I don’t have enough information to do that.
I do hope you see this and write back, just it has been almost a month now 🙁
John
on 18/05/2010 at 3:17 pm
I went out with this girl just because I needed to shag having had my girlfriend break up with me in a very hurtful way recently.
I did not want to make false pretenses so I told the girl that I am emotionally not ready for a relationship and I just wanted her body. Of course I said this in a flirtatious seductive manner because I did want to get in her pants.
Which I did. It was great. Just what the doctor ordered.
Now, however, the girl seems to think that we are in some sort of relationship. She wants to go out and date and construct something.
Regardless of whether I want this or not I know I am not ready.
I would actually like to have sex with this girl again but feel I shouldn’t as she appears to want more than I can give. I also just know that now I have already had sex with her I will always end up being the bad guy in our same enlarged social circle.
If I call her and we shag again I am exploiting her feelings for me.
If I don’t call then I just used her body.
There is no point in being honest women do not want the truth! Women want to feel like princesses and be pursued and if reality doesn’t fit this they delude themselves. Whatever the guy does he will end up being the asshole for the women. My ex is telling everybody exaggerated to the point of being untruthful lies about what I did and didn’t do. For me this is very disappointing as I loved her and tried hard to make things work. I know I am not the bad person she is making me out to be.
ramona
on 18/05/2010 at 4:21 pm
Well…you did sleep with her and “flirtatiously” said that you weren’t ready for a relationship. Don’t sleep with her until you seriously tell her you only want sex. Have her repeat it back to you and make sure she gets it. If she chooses to sleep with you and gets hurt – it’s her responsibility.
John
on 18/05/2010 at 5:02 pm
Thanks Ramona.
I will be more explicit in the future.
Fortunately for me, some ladies desire sex with me. I just have to make sure that they do not project this prince charming thing onto me where they will feel disappointed or rejected if I just ask for sex.
Unfortunately, I am rather inhibited so it is quite difficult for me to ask for sex straight out without first having played the seduction game. Also. I gather that only really works with a quite small proportion of ladies and I am not that thick skinned.
Keeping the balance is not always that easy. Especially if you are biologically wired to be pissed off if she then turns you down because she wants more. Acceptance is getting easier with progressing age however certain ladies take that as just part of the game and play on it…
I’ve been running Baggage Reclaim since September 2005, and I’ve spent many thousands of hours writing this labour of love. The site has been ad-free the entire time, and it costs hundreds of pounds a month to run it on my own. If what I share here has helped you and you’re in a position to do so, I would love if you could make a donation. Your support is so very much appreciated! Thank you.
Copyright Natalie Lue 2005-2024, All rights reserved. Written and express permission along with credit is needed to reproduce and distribute excerpts or entire pieces of my work.
Manage Cookie Consent
To provide the best experiences, we use technologies like cookies to store and/or access device information. Consenting to these technologies will allow us to process data such as browsing behaviour or unique IDs on this site. Not consenting or withdrawing consent, may adversely affect certain features and functions.
Functional
Always active
The technical storage or access is strictly necessary for the legitimate purpose of enabling the use of a specific service explicitly requested by the subscriber or user, or for the sole purpose of carrying out the transmission of a communication over an electronic communications network.
Preferences
The technical storage or access is necessary for the legitimate purpose of storing preferences that are not requested by the subscriber or user.
Statistics
The technical storage or access that is used exclusively for statistical purposes.The technical storage or access that is used exclusively for anonymous statistical purposes. Without a subpoena, voluntary compliance on the part of your Internet Service Provider, or additional records from a third party, information stored or retrieved for this purpose alone cannot usually be used to identify you.
Marketing
The technical storage or access is required to create user profiles to send advertising, or to track the user on a website or across several websites for similar marketing purposes.
NML, I think there has to be another qualification to make sex casual. The lady can’t be thinking. As in, mobile but seriously under the influence. Otherwise she doesn’t have the shield of ‘I wasn’t thinking’, and there you are on the slippery slope again..
As for why the confusion, consider this. Guys don’t have much control over their partner. That is, we are completely untrained, after the initial contact, about what happens next. Instead of base ulterior motives, for the most part the goal is ‘see if this step works’. If it gets up between the sheets – that is winning the lottery, not another conquest (except for the cads, that is). If we get to a kiss, a cuddle – we are completely wrapped up in what the lady will allow, with no possible room to think about why we are there.
Which is a big reason to pick your partner for good and sufficient reasons – before you start getting close. Separate the learners from the dedicated predators (i.e., ‘casual sex’). For the learners, ‘casual sex’ means unplanned – the pace and goal of the encounter is unplanned, beyond going as far as she allows, the context is unplanned, beyond encouraging her to allow more, and anything beyond a possible repeat encounter is just pipe dreams.
Sorry. For most of the good guys, it isn’t lack of interest in a relationship, it is failure to plan – as in, waiting for marriage or something similar.
Just be sure to avoid the slick talkers practiced at making a lady feel comfortable and stirs erotic feelings. The good guys won’t be nearly as practice – the first or second time he makes contact with a good woman, she keeps him and he isn’t interested in looking for someone else.
NML, this is a great post. I’m an advocate of casual sex, but the fact is (this me agreeing with you) that MOST people can’t handle it for whatever reasons. On the guy’s side, I’d like to throw out a number…I want to say 95% of guys are too insecure or too dumb to handle a casual sex or friends-with-benefits situation. I strongly believe that women are more capable of handling casual sex on an emotional level because they are naturally more skilled at managing emotions. Guys, on the other hand, are built for casual sex on a biological level, but generally they’re emotional infants, so there’s a big conflict. This is my theory, and I wouldn’t mind hearing dissenting opinions. Anyway, I’ll say the number for chicks is like 65%, maybe even closer to a coin flip, on who can handle casual sex.
Typical guys will duck, dodge, get closed up, lie, make relationship promises, and do all kinds of stupid things in order to get laid. I can’t tell you how many men I know (including myself) that have suffered through lengthy, mis-matched relationships because they’re getting sex regularly. When I say suffer, I mean suffering for both partners.
They do this because they’re afraid of taking the risky route and simply saying, “I’m ONLY interested in being friends and screwing, NOT a relationship.” She could very well say no thanks, but guess what? You’re saving both people a WORLD of grief.
This is exactly why I’m a blogger and an advocate for more enlightenment in the dating world. I hate seeing douchebaggy guys who fumble around and hurt their partners and themselves because they don’t know what the hell they’re doing. And I hate seeing bitter, overly-cautious chicks who have to wait 3 months before having sex just to make sure a guy is really all in.
We all want great sex. Sometimes we want a relationship. Sometimes we just want to screw. It’s possible to have it both ways.
Well, as you know, I am a huge proponent of casual sex, when it is honest and healthy.
I don’t need to be ‘incapacitated’ as an excuse for my guilt the next day as Brad mentions.
Nor do I have any shame in admitting to having been in this situation, of my own free will accord.
(read my previous article here on CSBF)
and sometimes, in the best possible situation, you are and can still be friends. it is a great deal.
But, if I like someone and am interested in long term, I don’t go this route, simply because I want to ensure that he does want me for me and not for my bedroom behaviour. Which of course he will eventually get, and definitely in shorter than 3 months! OMG, I don’t think I could wait that long, forget the guy!!! LOL
Again, it’s all about being 100% honest with yourself. No regrets, no shame, no justification.
That’s the only way respect will happen.
And that is key in a FB situation…
🙂
Women are better equiped in dealing with casual sex than men? Ummm, I don’t think that’s the case. In fact, women usually view sex as an act of emotional acceptance of their relationship. Men generally view sex more on the physical aspect and women more on the emotional. This is not to say that this is ALWAYS true with all women and men, but this is generally the case.
Point in case — when men cheat by having sex with another women, they generally are doing so for more physical reasons. Women, on the other hand, generally will cheat because there is some type of emotional deficit within their relationship.
Also, men are emotional infants? Again, that’s a glossy statement. I don’t know about how you grew up, but I had a lot of enriching experiences with women and I learned a lot about women from interacting with my mother — that’s how most men begin their education on the female sex. To say that a man is an emotional infant into his 20’s and 30’s is a very naive statement.
The bottom line is this. Both women and men can enjoy casual “no strings attached” sex, but they both have to go into it with that clear expectation that it is just for physical enjoyment. If one or both enter the act of sex with unsure intentions, someone could easily wind up getting hurt.
Like so many other things in life, communication is paramount and if you’re going to dabble in casual sex, you had better prepare yourself for the ramifications because sex is still an intensely personal and private experience despite what shows like Sex in the City would have you believe.
“Casual sex is rarely just ‘casual’ and it’s only casual sex if BOTH parties know that they’re having casual sex in the first place!”
This is very true. But if casual sex becomes regular sex, boy and female are likley to want a relationship.
on the whole “men or women who can handle casual sex better?” issue i will just say there is such variation from person to person in terms of emotional development at all ages that its really luck of the draw,
again i am an advocate of casual sex and until recently i was a practicer of it too
the one peice of advice i have to a guy who is after casual sex but doesnt want to risk losing sex over being upfront about it is this, 9/10 the girl who is up for casual sex is much much better at sex than the one who wants a relationship and wont settle for anything else.
that is not to say women who are good at sex dont want relationships or even that they will accept less than a relationship. (the disclamer)
if you are unsure on the relationship side but know you want to have sex with a girl tell her this, let her know ur uncertain about the one thing and sure about the other, its just honesty, but aside from that you look so much better, i mean from her point of view you are an honest man who has the balls to admit and be open about his feelings.
oh and fyi to all those innexperienced guys out there having sex with different girls only makes you better at it if your not scared to admit to them that your not perfect in bed and ask them what they like, remember she will think you are a mindreader let her know you arent. plus staying with the one girl untill you know exactly what she wants in bed doesnt guarantee good sex, your best bet for great sex is some experience, some natural talent, a steep learning curve and a little bit of luck
anyway good luck to all you people seeking casual sex out there, remember men and women may be inherently different in many ways but we both want sex
The fact that men are incapable of casual sex is the most-biased close-minded thing I have ever heard.
I am a MAN
I have had a few casual-sex partners over the years.
If they were open to it. I always made sure that she knew that it was Friends with benefits.
and before we started to engage in the act of sex I made sure she was clear. Even afterwards, I made sure that she was alright.
Their have been women who took it too far and wanted more.Those women are the women I no longer have sex with.
Josh, I am a little lost by your comment because nobody said that men were incapable of casual sex…. Quite the opposite…
Heres a tip: when a man says ‘ I just wanna meet someone to go out wiv, have some fun wiv…’ run for the freakin hills ladies. In my experience ‘…fun…’ is sex, JUST SEX, not I want a girlfriend, a wife, for you to have my children, you could be my soul mate, HOT SEX!! Men are simple creatures, they dont lie, (only when trying to get their arses outta a sticky situation) we tend not to listen. LISTEN UP LADIES!!!! start takin responsibility for your heart, dont be anyones bit of fun, if you want to get married.!!!
To ARulesGirl2theEnd,
I agree with you one hundred percent. When a guy mentions the word “fun” in the context of what he is looking for in a woman, he usually means CASUAL, NO-STRINGS SEX. This is applicable, whether he is verbally saying it to your face, or mentioning it in his online dating profile. So Ladies, be warned!
I have no problem with casual sex…I have a very strong sex drive.I just find it sooo annoying when it is assumed that I have to be lied to or a guy is unsure of his own motives and what he wants. I recently confronted my guy about this and said…I just want to know where you/we) stand …if we are fuck buddies-fine-I’m a grown-up-I just want to make informed decisions about my life!When he couldn’t or wouldn’t give me a staight answer…it took a bad turn… now it looks bleak….we have not been in contact really and I feel hurt and ignored.I was as honest as possible and I really miss the sex and physical attention! Women want hot, great and regular sex as much as guys! Why the double standard? Why is my guy so afraid to be honest with me?I don’t want this hassle so its over- is that make me a dog?!
Well Ive experienced a lot of women that play hard to get. They talk for a long time they tell you they love you they say they want more but then get surprisingly cold whenever the guy tries to get more intimate. As if having sexual intentions or hopes makes my attempt to have a meaningful emotional bond a lie. I happen to like an emotional bond and some romance before i try to stick any of my body parts into her body parts. But at the end of the day I still want to do it. A lot of girls seem to think a guy that is sensitive nice and interested in a relationship doesn’t want or need sex. But “nice guys” are horny too and aren’t any less good in bed. Experiences with girls like that make a lot of men become distant at the start of a relationship. I think a lot of girls reward the stupid male behaviors they hate as adults while they are in high schooI used to say I love you when I felt it, usually before she did. But if I ever hope to see her naked I better not. If I do I will get to hold her in my arms fully clothed while she cries on my shoulder about how much of an asshole her boyfriend is and after i cheer her up and rebuild her self esteem shes off to some make up sex with that asshole. Not to say there aren’t a lot of guys that play lie to and abuse women. It works both ways. In the relationship I was in I feel like a power thing was going on my girlfriend felt that cuz I loved her I was the only person in the world she could push around. Im done with that now. ultimately i think relationship problems are between people not between the sexes.
“Whilst I do think that we can be guilty of building sandcastles in the sky on occasion, I have to say here that much of the ambiguity that surrounds sex and women feeling the need to justify the fact that they slept with the guy by investing themselves further is caused by ambiguous, hard to read men who blow hot and cold and leave everything ‘literally’ wide open to interpretation. ”
i’m still in in process of healing after having “sex” relation with an guy who blow hot and cold for almost 2 year. He was nice in beginning to get me where he wants and i was already in love with him so i did everything just to be with him. Sex was very good and we both felt very strong attraction but the only diffrent was that i fell in love with him and he wanted only sex. I can’t describe the feeling of “hurt” i felt each time after we had sex and this guy words” I’m off now”. I wanted him so bad that i could not stop it. I’m now in 2 months “no contact rule” so i hope i will be strong to let him go forever but it is so damn difficult!
Ohh god, casual sex is easy for a man!!! We love sex and often make the mistake of allowing a women to “assume” that the two of you are in a relationship. Let me explain before I get attacked. First, it better be known that the relationship is not going any further then the physical. SPELL IT OUT, BE A MAN AND SAY IT!!!!! Second, Only see that person a few times a month. The general rule of thumb is once a week, I rather keep it once, every other week. Seeing a women three to four times a week, and sleeping together, cuddling and kissing can cause some women, to feel that there might be something there ect… we are only human, you sleep with someone often and enjoy the benefits of a relationship, then someone is going to develop feelings at some point. Man or women, more often then not, it is the women that starts to feel this way. It sucks having to break someones heart. Some men, or should I say “pussys” rather not break the womens heart, Yeah more like you love getting ass and you can’t be a man and tell the women whats up. Don’t lie to yourself and try to make it seem like your doing it for her. I will admit, I was Mr. Unavailable, with a women who use to be a FWB, and we spent every day together. I did care for her, and told her that I had love FOR her, just not the love she had for me. Yeah, I knew better then to let her stick around, just needed to grow up A LOT. For any guy who falls into that, ITS HARDER THE LONGER YOU WAIT, AND IF YOU CARE THAT MUCH ABOUT HER FEELINGS YOU WILL LEAVE HER AND LET HER GET OVER YOU!!!!!! I will end it with that. LOL, but just remember FWB, can work, if you 1) set the ground rules 2) Only see each other once a week AT MAX!! ( the less the better) and 3) Wrap you tool, lord knows there is enough STD’s out there, play safe!!! To end this, I do hope that most men know that MOST women like to feel that sex “Just happened” and don’t like it all planned out! Us guys can make plans for it, women don’t feel as good about it when it is all planned out. Just my opinion. 🙂
Jason,
Are you saying you are no longer an EUM?
What were your thoughts when you were continuing this type of arrangement and knew that she was in love with you?
Whoa, Okay Gayle from what I can tell you know this women is or was in love with you. I don’t have many details and it is hard to say; but, I will put in some scenario’s that may be the case.
You say “was,” She could either be telling you that because she wants to play a little hard to get, or she could be telling the truth, yet still find you attractive enough to sleep with. Depending on the kind of women you have. Like I said I have very little to go by, just that if you want to be her friend, then be her friend, if you want to be her FWB, then be that. There is no happy ground that I have found, and it is dangerous waters you are treading in, where hers or even your emotions can be severally hurt in the long run.
My story was that I was being both, her friend and her FWB. I will just say HB, short for “Hump Buddy.” As her friend, we hung out everyday and did whatever and always had a good time. Now, I couldn’t see myself with her long term, and she kept telling me that she liked me a lot and even asked me out and I said no, along with something stupid like ” Im not ready to date yet, maybe later on down the road.” I figured to myself that maybe she would grow on me and I would change my mind at some point.
She got herself a Boyfriend and it was turmoil for me, I wanted her in the worse way imaginable; so I thought. Yeah, when I had my chance with her, I took it and wasn’t really happy with her, treated her like less then nothing. This girl is one with a big heart, I am not proud of these events in anyway and I didn’t seem to know better at the time. So it was off and on for three years, she was living three states over and STILL wanted to be with me. I figured it would be good and made sure that we had a blast the few times a month we saw each other. Six flags, sailing for entire weekend “making love under the stars out on the ocean. ect…” Yeah, she cried all the other days of each passing month, as I didn’t really mind at all. Now, she was and still is VERY attractive, that wasn’t the problem. She was fun to be around and shared all my values, then again she adopted all of them. She was just so clingy and needy. She didn’t have a drivers license at 22 years of age and I didn’t like being asked to drive her too and from work. Her mother has a drinking problem and I was always there trying to console her over it. I felt like I couldn’t breath and just couldn’t see getting married to her so what is the point. Yeah, it was bad and she even pulled the ” I was in love with you, but I am over it” routine on me. I KNEW BETTER. Shouldn’t of done all of that and in the end, I lost her to a very large, Muscle builder and it was everything I deserved for pain and then some. Woke me up to a few things and I wanted to have someone to connect with and love, to share my life with. That was three years ago, October 3. Since then I have had a rebound and one VERY successful relationship that went a little haywire. Lets just say we are now both on Anti depressants and I saw her today Ironically, the first time in three months. Even thought I want to remain single for awhile (and so doesn’t she) it was nice to see her after such a long time has passed. (random Tangent)
Back to that women in question. If she has made mention of feelings like that then choose being Just Friends, or HB’s. Tread lightly and even thought it is kinda rude, DON’T CALL THE NEXT DAY. Yeah, can make a women feel a little slutty and all, but you are not dating her and she HAS been told what it is going to be from the start. Personally, I would just find someone else, maybe someone you can see something happening with long term, but, you live and you learn. Good luck Gayle 🙂 Be careful, telling you at one point that she loves you, can mean she has some very powerful feelings towards you, and make sure you talk to her without ambiguities!! Make sure she knows that you don’t want, and will not want, anything else but a sex partner for a night or maybe a few others and you hope she finds someone that will be good for her.
Hi Jason,
I’m a woman and I think you may have confused me with another poster (first and last paragraph).
I wanted your perspective to see if there is any acknowledgment of the EUM behavior at the time.
It is true, it takes getting your heart broken for one to realize the dangerous patterns they have been following, I am happy to hear that you have opened your heart and are receptive to a loving heathy relationship.
Yeah, sorry about the mix up. I’m not the best with names. I guess it is all about growing up. I was a late bloomer, and my emotional awareness was not developed enough to understand what kind of pain can be brought on. It was one of the best things ever to have been dumped like that and I am so glad she didn’t take me back, cause deep down, I knew it would go right back to the way it was before.
Jason, how old are you? You are a user – that much I can tell you – if you are in your early 20’s, I will cut you some slack, if you are older than that – you are a user, period. Comfort yourself with ‘thinking” she knew all along what I wanted – right, because that still makes you a user!
Astelle:
A bit harsh remark to Jason no?? Tone it down a notch….
Not for anything but I feel Jason is being honest in what he is saying. Not only that but he did mention that he felt bad or did think its wrong not to be upfront with a woman in letting her know that its just about “casual sex” and also, not using the “I Love you” words just to get someone into bed.
There is nothing wrong with “casual sex” and its not using another person if its consentual and if its told upfront. There are many women who like Jason, aren’t looking for a “relationship” but are looking just for someone to fulfill that need or to spend that kind of time with without being emotionally attached.
I dont think Jason (or any other man for that matter) is being a user if he’s honest and his intentions are being stated upfront. Us women do have to learn to LISTEN better and not run and make castles in the sky thinking that we can turn into something more AFTER we have been clearly told that its just a casual fun encounter that is desired from the other party. And men need to learn to be more honest and upfront and not give us mixed signals that might be interepreted as something “more” than just casual sex. If a man or woman wants sex and tells/asks you upfront if your up for that, thats not being a user….thats being an “adult” where you get to make up your mind if your down for that sort of thing or not. Let me know what the playing field looks like so I can decide whether or not i want to play. If more men (and women) were upfront about just wanting “casual sex” it would alleviate so much of the mis interpretations. We need more men like Jason who arent afraid of being upfront and bold about it so that us women can know what we want to do without being led down the hot/cold road or being stung along. Its the one’s that arent honest about it or intentionally “use” words or our vulnerability to get what they want without regards to our emotions that are the real “USERS”.
Astelle,
See you have had some bad experience’s yourself, but calling someone else a user for something they admit they have done, doesn’t change whatever happened to yourself.
Based on your hostility, it’s clear you have had someone hurt you deeply, or bared witness to someone close to you going through suck pain. Sorry for whatever happened that has caused you to lash out. Hope you get past it and find someone who treats you right, if you haven’t already.
2much2handle,
I’m actually not looking for causal sex. I am really bored of it and find it a waste of my time. I know what I am looking for and only found it once. I just seem to see all those that I am not interested in EVERYWHERE. book stores, grocery store, bars, (clubs were a given) at my college, (too young for my liking) and I even tried the Internet without any luck. I’m attracted to Smart with a thirst for knowledge, has style and two loving parents, and doesn’t want kids tell they have been married for at least 4 years. (I’m sorry, but in my book if you are not using protection then you ARE trying to have kids.) Yeah, the day I can find someone I can feel completely open too, is the day I start dating someone again. It has taken me 26 years, so i figure what is another 26 years.
Jason, quick question as you’re so insighful- I’ve been having casual sex with this married but separate guy and i don’t really talk about myself much as I view this as only casual sex. He doesn’t even know my real name. When we meet up he’s very inquisitive and says flattering things and for this reason I’m confused, this is my first casual encounter and I thought that been cold and distant would ensure neither of us gets confusion about the situation, instead what I think has happened is my mysterious potrayal is causing him to act more emotionally inimate. What’s your advice. We have great sex and I don’t want to lose that but I’m getting confused.
I have been sleeping with an attached man for nearly a year now. When it started I had just broken up from my partner of 13 years father of my 2 children. My lover, as i choose to call him, i had known and fancied for as long as i have known my ex. So when he knocked at my door barely a month after my ex had gone I was estatic and totally wanting to have something with him. He told me he was separated from his partner of 21 years and we started an amazing sexual relationship. I had not felt so happy in years! However at New Year he went back to his partner. To be honest I don’t think he had ever left! But it was too late, i accepted even suggested i would be his mistress and we carried on seeing eachother. We get together once a week or so and I have asked of him to text me everyday. Our sexual connection is trully unbelievable but the trouble is i have fallen in love with him, madly in love. Now as Jason says if you are nice, cuddly and kissy; if you say it is not just about sex and you show you care for the person, then he/she will get attached. That is what has happened to me. I thought I could be a mistress and just that but i am now suffering every day waiting for his text, thinking about him constantly, living for the snached moments spent with him and gradually coming to terms that he will never leave his misses and that he will probably never be with me.Great sex can lead you to fall in love trust me.
Confused-
Sorry for the tardiness of this, I have been very busy with school and my own love life.
You wrote “When we meet up he’s very inquisitive and says flattering things.” This can mean a ton of different things from him wanting more to him wanting to know a little more about who he is sleeping with.
You seem to be confused about your feelings and how to handle this situation which if you were worried about his feelings then the only thing to do is stop seeing him. I wish I could tell you more yet I don’t have enough information to do that.
I do hope you see this and write back, just it has been almost a month now 🙁
I went out with this girl just because I needed to shag having had my girlfriend break up with me in a very hurtful way recently.
I did not want to make false pretenses so I told the girl that I am emotionally not ready for a relationship and I just wanted her body. Of course I said this in a flirtatious seductive manner because I did want to get in her pants.
Which I did. It was great. Just what the doctor ordered.
Now, however, the girl seems to think that we are in some sort of relationship. She wants to go out and date and construct something.
Regardless of whether I want this or not I know I am not ready.
I would actually like to have sex with this girl again but feel I shouldn’t as she appears to want more than I can give. I also just know that now I have already had sex with her I will always end up being the bad guy in our same enlarged social circle.
If I call her and we shag again I am exploiting her feelings for me.
If I don’t call then I just used her body.
There is no point in being honest women do not want the truth! Women want to feel like princesses and be pursued and if reality doesn’t fit this they delude themselves. Whatever the guy does he will end up being the asshole for the women. My ex is telling everybody exaggerated to the point of being untruthful lies about what I did and didn’t do. For me this is very disappointing as I loved her and tried hard to make things work. I know I am not the bad person she is making me out to be.
Well…you did sleep with her and “flirtatiously” said that you weren’t ready for a relationship. Don’t sleep with her until you seriously tell her you only want sex. Have her repeat it back to you and make sure she gets it. If she chooses to sleep with you and gets hurt – it’s her responsibility.
Thanks Ramona.
I will be more explicit in the future.
Fortunately for me, some ladies desire sex with me. I just have to make sure that they do not project this prince charming thing onto me where they will feel disappointed or rejected if I just ask for sex.
Unfortunately, I am rather inhibited so it is quite difficult for me to ask for sex straight out without first having played the seduction game. Also. I gather that only really works with a quite small proportion of ladies and I am not that thick skinned.
Keeping the balance is not always that easy. Especially if you are biologically wired to be pissed off if she then turns you down because she wants more. Acceptance is getting easier with progressing age however certain ladies take that as just part of the game and play on it…