There are certain people in our lives who if we haven’t been able to act as if we’re no longer bothered by something, whether it relates to them or not, they encourage us to “move on”, which is often subtext for ‘fuggedaboudit’. Of course the actual goal of moving on isn’t so much to attempt to wipe our memory (we’d remove the good as well as the not so good memories) but more to not be recalling it with such frequency and intensity that it’s front and centre in our minds while derailing our inner peace and quality of life. It stops being the main plotline or even a subplot; we move into a new chapter. We begin to heal and it becomes a distant memory over time, hopefully leaving us with positive lessons from the insights we gained.
What can be a tad perplexing about the fuggedaboudit brigade is that sometimes, the reason why we’re encouraged to hurry the hell up and move on is because they liberally use the reset button to disengage from anything where they do not want to face their fear of confrontation and/or be responsible and accountable. Because they don’t discuss, offer explanations, apologies, do the whole working together to find a resolution thang and instead do their best to pick up where they think they left off, which conveniently is a time that excludes whatever they’re trying to avoid, us remembering is a pesky inconvenience. Some reset button pressers are also known for their tendency for using the disappearing until things have blown over route.
“I just want to move on”, they claim, maybe displaying a weariness that contradicts the fact that it’s the first mention of a discussion…
Even if what we’re being asked to forget about doesn’t have anything to do with this person, if their typical habit is to push feelings and thoughts down and front like it’s of no bother or it never happened, someone else expressing their feelings will make them super uncomfortable, so telling us to “just move on” is a way of relieving their discomfort, although unfortunately it tends to come across as lack of empathy.
What’s also quite interesting with someone who presses the reset button on something that occurred with us, is that because they try to pretend as if nothing has happened, they sometimes do things to engineer the situation where a person might hopefully feel bad about bringing things up, so for instance, after an argument and then not hearing a peep out of him/her, or even blanking us when we make attempts to address what happened, they’re tagging us in something on Facebook, cracking jokes when we see them next time, or even swooping in with gifts or declarations of big plans. We then worry about looking as if we’re dwelling, or being a sour face about things, I mean, how can we possibly say something now when they’re being so ‘nice’ to us?
Why does this seeming olive branch appear to have a steely grip on the other end reminding us that we must not rock the boat if we don’t want to be getting an earful or getting the heave ho all over again?
It’s one thing when we’ve talked something to death and rehashed and rehashed because at some point, a decision about whether we’re going to accept what we know or whether we’re going to pursue the truth Homeland style, has to be made.
When we rehash, whether it’s alone or with someone else, it’s as if we’re hoping that we’re going to stumble across new insight. It’s either that or we repeat it to persecute ourselves or even the other party.
It’s an entirely different kettle of fish though, when nothing has been said and a discussion, an explanation, even remorse, is like trying to drag a horse to water. Suddenly their phone has died, they’re mega busy, they haven’t got clean drawers, their car broke down, that speck on the wall now looks like the most riveting thing on earth, or we’re being told about how we’re “too sensitive”, read too much into things, are a dweller bearing grudges, and other such stuff. Or maybe the air becomes thick with tension (all while claiming that they’re “OK”).
It’s funny when they say that they “don’t want to get into another argument” or that they don’t want to talk about it because they know how we’re going to react, because for someone so eager to move on, they seem to have a lot of opinions about what will happen and our reactions that would suggest that they’ve anything but moved on.
Confronting an issue is very different from having a confrontation. One is about being vulnerable enough to acknowledge that there’s an issue and being open to giving our side and being open to hearing theirs, and the other is about being hostile and argumentative.
Sometimes an issue doesn’t need much discussion because each party realises what happened, each feels bad about their part and isn’t harbouring anger, plus it’s a moment in time rather than a series of incidents and behaviours with recurring and related themes. In these situations, both parties are cool enough with each other and even if there’s an initial awkwardness, it’s quickly gotten over and they both roll on. If one wants to talk about it, the other is open to it.
When an issue occurs that leaves anger, hurt and questions on the table whether it’s on one or both sides, sure, we can’t force a person to talk about it but they don’t get to dictate what we recall — it’s like, “Take the forget-me-now pill so I can go about my life damnit!”
There are three particular reasons though why somebody pressing the reset button and ducking and diving about addressing issues, ensures that we don’t forget about it in a hurry:
- They repeat whatever was part of the original issue or even add in more stuff that compounds the problem and causes real pain right now.
- They haven’t actually forgotten about it and instead hint at their anger, resentment etc., with passive aggression that they’ll no doubt deny, possibly because they’re so entrenched in it and at the same time distanced from their behaviour because they push down their feelings and thoughts.
- When we so much as put a foot wrong, they’ll have no trouble bringing up old sh-t but strangely enough, we won’t be able to mention something from five seconds before…
A fear of confrontation doesn’t go away by avoiding conflict and criticism or pressing the reset button; if anything it amplifies the fear and the avoidance creates problems because it’s going to no doubt affect others in the process.
For a person to expect us to fuggedaboudit while they press the reset button and all while still bringing issues from the past into the present via their behaviour, is really about them looking for permission to carry on as if what matters does not matter, just so that they’re spared from experiencing negative consequences. It’s difficult to forget something that’s still going on and that isn’t being resolved. It is important to move on but it’s better to move on with awareness and knowledge gleaned from the lessons of the experience than it is to move on and refuse to learn anything.
Your thoughts?
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The fuggeddaboutits don’t want to be accountable for their actions, own their behavior, nor have to think about the damage done to others from their actions. Plain and simple. Though I have experienced a lot of trauma in my life, I never want to forget so as to not make the same mistakes again or recognize a big problem when I see it.
Noquay, I was thinking about you the other day… what happened with the big meeting you were going to have with your boss? Did you have to explain about your past relationship with Narc Boy?
Wiser
Nope, basically it was that my sustainability plan is scrapped forever, our institution will focus on the high demand, “fun” programs. Rather than stress intellectual development, get students through fast and never mind that the jobs they may get will be min wage and theyll be living with six dudes in a hovel or outta their cars. Having academic rigor that helps disadvantaged students lift themselves up and out, is a positive asset to community has no place here. It’s all about numbers. In short, fuggeddaboutit and please leave. Sitting back and processing, looking for do able, equitable solutions and distancing myself from colleagues who feel this way, aligning myself with the few like-minded.
Great recap, Natalie.
But ugh. Reading this post reminded me so much of the lies, circumvention, avoidance, gas lighting and other mind games my Narcissistic ex used to play on a daily basis.
Bottom line is, a love relationship is neither a contact sport nor a spectator sport, ending with winners and losers; it is two people who love one another enough to minimize the emotional friction and raise one another up, not tear them down in order to win some sort of game.
The situations you described are so familiar to me.
If I asked her to sacrifice one minor thing for my benefit she would act like I’d asked her to cut off a hand to prove her love.
With her, there was never an issue too petty to go to war over. Everything had to be her way or no way. When she was wrong, caught in a lie or found to be cheating, she would never admit it much less apologize, and if I took too long to get over it without her ever addressing it, I’d be the one in the dog house. Eventually, she would reflect on the issue and declare it was all my fault and moan about how much I had hurt her by falsely accusing her and being so angry with her.
It was a mind numbing sleigh ride to Hell, and cutting it off and having 100 percent No Contact with her has given me back so much serenity and inner happiness.
Every passing day I feel old, normal emotions returning, and I’m even able to laugh again.
Yes, I do miss her at times, but I am comforted in knowing I miss the person she pretended to be in order to ensnare me in her vampire game of narcissistic emotional abuse–an incessant need for obedience, adoration, flattery and worship that continues until the villain sucks out every speck of joy and happiness the victim ever had.
She loved her reset button, but one day I’d had enough and I told her where she could stick it. Then I pressed MY reset button.
Part of being sensitive and accountable, you sometimes wind up w someone who isn’t and are picking up their end for them. Codependency is sticking around. Leaving is moving forward toward healthier, more equitable relationships. I’ve experienced the same thing you have and it deeply damaged me until I realized just who’s bs was who’s. Thanks for your comment.
I was involved with a charmer who ticked all the boxes in the Mr. Unavailable book. I was new to dating after a divorce and he immediately drew me in and I was sure we would be together for ever. I know now ,he was a shady, mixed up guy that believed his own b.s. and had me convinced for a while too.
I love Nat’s book and advice and am posting this to tell how I stopped the “return cycle”. We broke up, then after no contact from me for a month, he begged to come back and made lots of promises,big plans etc. and then promptly dropped me after sleeping together again-no surprise! Well, he kept texting and explaining and saying sweet things and every time ,it would make me cry and feel conflicted and want to trust when I really knew he would just use me again. I did not reply back but they(texts) kept coming, The next time he sent one,I said-“by your choice, we no longer have a relationship-do not contact me again.” He texted back,”ouch” and then “So be it” and I have not heard from him since. I think about him lots but would never take him back. Hope this tactic may help someone stop the cycle!
Oh dearLord, I think that for the first time someone has actually used the perfect, I tell you…PERFECT word to describe the tactics used by many of the people who expect you to forget.all.about.it … “weariness”!!!! That’s exactly what would describe someone I know when called up on his shit. Thanks. Finally I find the perfect word. It pained me that after my last relationship my friends could not really understand the deeply toxic nature of my relationship, and my description of some of the behaviours left them a bit incredulous. Some people don’t understand that the outside looks so much different than the outside. I just wanted to be believed and given the perfect words to make sense of what I allowed to happen to me and how it happened. And this website has. So thank you.
I’ll now go back to my …problem stated in the previous post – how do you learn to live with the humans when you feel like you grew up alone in the forest with just the wolves so know nothing about what’s ok, not ok, what are you allowed to have and ask for yourself and…what does normal and healthy look like to people who’ve never seen, feel and understood it? 🙂 maybe one day I’ll have the answer – til then, I’m working on it!
Many thanks!
@Ro. This post and your previous one made me angry. Hopefully I’ll comment on it this one time and let it go.
Why do you ‘smile’? Are you very happy to have beeen raised by ‘wolves’? Are you not ‘human’? Are you and I different species? Do you get a lot of brownie points when you play victim?
Have you attended AA Alcoholics Anonymous meetings for many years?
The answer you’re seeking is The Body. Your body will tell you what is healthy and what is not. Headache depression surge of anger shingles feeling light-headed, you name it, is an indication that you are in a non-healthy situation.
What unheard wisdom right.?
You’ve got to listen to it (yourself) though. V.
Hi, I’m not sure I wanted anyone to be angry reading my posts. My smiling has always been a form of pretending everything’s fine, cracking a joke, laughing it up, covering what was happening ,and it has probably “contaminated” my writing style as well, not realising in text no one will perceive the lost smile,the happy smile, the jokey one,the bewildered smile etc. They probably all look the same.
I don’t get any brownie points for playing the victim. Maybe I did earlier in my life. Again, it’s a question of how you read the posts. I wrote them in calm and yes maybe with that confused smile on my face in a way, wondering/scratching my head as to what to do. It followed one of my conversations with my friends and my realising that as opposed to some of them who have some inkling as to what a normal relationship is, I didn’t. It also brought back many thoughts I once had, regarding how my past was still present through my behaviour and bad patterns. Even when I thought I was fine you could still see them. So I was just going through thoughts in my head realising that some things I wish I knew instinctively. I probably don’t trust my instincts anymore, true, and I wish I could say that inside, my body will know what’s what. Unfortunately that’s not always been the case, or if IT spoke, I didn’t know how to listen and that’s my fault. But in any case, even when I have embarked upon new chapters of my life when I’d sorted out a few things, still I ran into the same state of confusion as to ..what would be normal/healthy etc. It was maybe all in my head as I tend to either overanalyse or not analyse at all, but to me it was clear that I’d been walking around kinda guessing and not really knowing what my true self wanted for myself or how much compromise smtg entails, etc. Writing those lines felt calm and apart from the misplaced smileys, I was really simply asking where to start, …in no way was it meant to antagonise anyone. Just picture someone scratching their heads asking questions whilst sipping tea, almost finding it amusing that it didn’t dawn on me until the present to ask myself – what do I want/need/think normal/desire/wish for etc,forgetting what mum dad brother friends world has got to say. So that’s what it was, just a contemplative set of questions. Unfortunately writing doesn’t allow for intonation so maybe I gave the wrong impression.
I have attended meetings for Acoa as I am one, and now I’m trying to get myself to read the books for Acoa, allowing for a deeper understanding and thus clarifying a few issues. Some I’ve worked out, some still need brushing and dusting and digging.
Please don’t get angry reading some post – even if it had been written in a melancholy woe is me way, we simply learn at different paces, we have our moments of highs and lows, of optimism and chaos “not again” kind of thing. It’s a process.
I hope you are well.
Hi Ro,
I relate to what you write, “Where to start?”. It isn’t easy, you want to get stronger but also you don’t want to risk losing yourself.
I am an hypersensitive person, I have understood it a short time ago, and it really explains a lot about my way of being in the world. There are resources online that describe it. It isn’t a mental illness, it’s just a way of being. In a word, very empathic, to the point of being overwhelmed by other people’s emotions, feelings, thoughts. It has positive consequences, but also negative ones, especially in this day and age, when being aggressive, independent, competitive, cynical, is highly praised.
May be you are one, too.
If you find out this is the case, may be meditation would help you, or something that lets you concentrate on the body. The body is our anchor. It remainds us that we are, we exist, as a separate entity from the others. It helps, to concentrate on the body, because we can thus re-centre, and build effective boundaries.
When I am at loss around people I listen to my body, as if it were a map. I trust it. I can’t always trust my emotions, as they are influenced by the people who surorund me, but the body is there, rooted, part of this world, part of me.
I, too, have kept smiling for a long time, as a last resource. It’s hard to find a balance between going on, being there for ourselves, and grieve. I do keep smiling nowadays, but I also allow myself to cry, and then I make my self a hot chocolate, and think “See? I cried, but I haven’t been destroyed by it. I have no reason to fear negativity, it can’t harm me as if I were a child”.
I don’t know if any of this makes sense to you 🙂
My parents didn’t abuse any substance, but they did have issues, deep ones. My mother is borderline autistic, and they have always fought a lot. They are broken people. It took me a long time to realise this.
As a child I would try to control things, to control them in order to have them stop arguing, crying, shouting. I also tried to pick up each and every clue, “Is she happY? Is he about to burst into anger?” to make sense of what was happening.
It isn’t good for the soul, and may be I developed my hypersensibility because of my childhood, or may be being a hypersensitive child, I suffered more.
Be kind to yourself, don’t neglect you. Breath in, breath out, touch your hands, stomp your feet on the groudn: you are here, you exist, you are important.
with love,
Misa
Hi Misa,
Thank you for your kind reply.
You are right, I used to be a sensitive person to the point of changing my stories/reactions/behavious just to please others. I gues it did start with family, when I’d just try to keep the peace and also guess the way the day/evening would pan out depending on how my dad was reacting/speaking/how much he’d had to drink etc… It only became apparent later on in life when I realised like the Acoa would say that I’d sometimes not tell the truth when it would’ve been just as easy to tell the truth – but if I felt that it might upset anyone…I’d back down midway through my sentence. Sounds crazy when I try to explain it to some people sometimes, but to me it makes perfect sense. I was doing the smiling and being the clown too, just to probably cover up..everything. To the point where I didn’t really know what I believed anymore, what my real opinion was: was I going along with some things just to try to please people? Well, yes. So now I try to do what you said and listen to my body, my brain when it’s not overthinking – and I learnt to also ask some fundamental questions and to reply to myself without the thought of family/people/life as I know it/freinds in my head. After all, many of the beliefs that I held for a part of my adult life were a result of my own distorted thinking..no one would have prevented me to change, be different, change my mind, be different to what I used to be. I just somehow forgot to ask what I and only I really wanted in order to be happy. Or what they say -not happy, but reasonably content.
I also do running now, yoga and am getting back in touch with my passions and interests. I like myself more now, to be honest. And try to love myself as I am and feel worthy without digging for signs of approval from others, without fishing for signs of disapproval. WHen you described the above, it felt so familiar.
What do you do that’s most helpful in order to get to your true self?
Oh and By the way when I said I ask myself some questions, I really do have a set of bullet point Qs a therapist has once given me, asking what MY beliefs were, about the world, life, family, love, money, work etc.. It really made me think.
Thanks again x
Oh..and the worst is that I look like the most confident, funny person you can meet most of times. So operating changes did not start that easily.
@Ro. I am very glad that you have answered this way. Although it is true that I am irritated by people who (temporarily) play victim, I really did push it there to prompt you to a serious answer and see if there’s room for serious discussion.
So, Ro, this pretending that everything’s fine is hindering you from making any progress. It is clearly a defense mechanism and it’s quite alright to use it when you’re ‘endangered’, as when you speak with friends who don’t understand you, but you need to be able to put it aside when you are with yourself in a safe place so that you can go deeper.
The question of listening to your body can’t happen in an instant if you’re not used to it any more. It goes in layers, like peeling an onion; the layers you peel off are lies and manipulation (even unintentional) that creates confusion inside of you. You ‘peel’ the layers by letting yourself fully feel the emotions and realise the consequences of the hurt that has been done to you, by friends, exes, parents etc. You can’t do that if you keep minimising with denial (everything is alright) or ‘woe me way’ as you say, or whatever else you use to keep the pain at bay.
The chief reason for answering to your post though is that I wanted to warn you about something.
Don’t you find it curious that I guessed that you have been attending AA (well, Acoa actually) meetings? Shouldn’t you ask where I did get the idea?
Although I appreciate their work, and the work is different from group to group as I gather, there is a lie that is being perpetuated in those circles (and not only there): that if you come from a ‘dysfuntional’ family, you can’t know healthy from unhealthy because that was never taught to you. That is PLAIN BULLSHIT to me. You can tell because you’re alive and your body will react to situations, producing sickness of some sort when where you are is not a great place to be. Look at all the people here and Natalie’s message that you can care for yourself if you put your energies into it instead of away from it. However, it is true that if you have had a difficult childhood you are hindered in the present and you have to peel off the layers of confusion, as I described above.
Ok?
It is never your fault that you’re not able to listen to your body as you would like to (right?) right now; that is the consequence of your past. However, if you don’t take active steps towards changing this attitude, you will be stuck in this confusion.
Your friends are not great friends, and I did perceive that your post was a sort of continuation of some conversation in your head, a mental masturbation so to speak. Try to snap out of it when it happens, it is a distraction and makes you waste your time.
I hope I have made up for making you feel a little bad. That is a sort of byproduct, I really meant to shake you a little bit so you could wake up more than you already are.
Best, V.
V., Get off your soapbox. you were wrong & harsh with Ro.
Hi Angelface,
Thank you for saying something – it took me a while to read the replies and realise maybe I myself should have said something the first time.
I do tend to apologise a lot, A LOT..seriously – but I realised I didn’t have anyhting to say sorry for but also didn’t want to upset anyone in case I myself may have misunderstood the reply.
Angleface,
The balls on you,I admire.When I was reading V’s response to Ro, I started to feel guilty of my own sensitive reactions from past abuse,doubt myself and go “Am I playing a victim?”. We are here to support each other anD not shut down others for reaching out.I rember a wisdom from Natalie about how sometimes showing vulnerability and reaching out is how we show compassion for us. Ro,you are not alone and you can’t be on a better site than here.x
@V
I am speaking for myself here, jumping in a conversation between two other people, and I apololgize for this in advance. But I would like to “wake you up”, too, as in: looking at things from another perspective.
You mean well and I do understand where you are coming from, e.g. criticizing AA meetings. I used to go to EA meetings and it didn’t feel healthy, there was some passivity, resignation, and self indulgence.
Yet: I don’t believe in “shaking people a little bit” and “wake them up”, sorry. First of all, because it’s patronizing. Second, because it’s aggressive.
One thing is to be a bit harsh with a very good friend, or a family member, somebody we know a lot about, and we have for a long time; and also, somebody we are in the same room with, phisically close to. In such a situation, the risk of harming the other person is low, and there is a direct interaction, so that if we notice we have triggered something in our friend/relative, we can immediately do something against it, e.g. hug her, say something milder, explain ourselves better…
But on BR we are writing, and writing to people we don’t know, who are very far from us. We might feel a connection when we read a comment, and this is great, it’s what sites like this are about: but we have to keep in mind that, for instance, we might be projecting our issues onto the other commenter, while misunderstanding the tone, the mood, etc.
Plus, in my case, having dealt with a lot of suppressed anger, micro-aggressions, gaslighting, …, and having succesfully extracted myself from all of this (having healed, and ultimately broken the cycle, yes it is possible!), I am extremely sensitive to “violence”, of any kind.
In fact, your comment has triggered me, even though it was meant for another person.
Confrontation is one thing, anger is another. Righteous anger is always OK, even healthy and necessary, but in this case (a stranger writing something that makes you think something is not right with their life, and is connected to something you have experienced too, etc) anger is in no way justified.
I don’t mean to criticize you, nor to substitute myself to Ro. It’s just that we come hear to be safe. Your aggressiveness doesn’t make me feel safe, even though I agree with many things you write.
Some things are too frail to be shaken, which doesn’t mean that they are weak, that they aren’t strong. They might simply have been broken, and being in the process of mending themselves.
Hi Misa again,
You have put it in very nice words and made it even clearer for myself – somethimes I don’t find the words to express what I feel very clearly. I read your reply once in a rush and then later on replied up this thread myself, and I may have repeaded – actually definitely repeated some f the things you said, in the way I felt them.
On another note, I have been to some Acoa (what’s EA? I’m afraid I’m not familiar with that) meetings, and yes..it’s strange that some have a note of resignation about them. But V has mentioned that too and you seem to think the same about these other meetings you’ve been too. However…some groups I’ve been to -in another country, other than the one I’m now- were actually very positive and helpful and ..people seemed to encourage each other to do better, to see the light, to take one step at a time. I have to say I felt some progress there – it was in Italy btw. Have you ahd bad experience with meetings? I’m only asking out of curiosity – i might go back to trying to find a place that suits me when I decide to..open the box again. One freind who attends AA told me: keep searching until you find a good one, some places feel better tahn others, the vibe is different. Just as with a therapist, you need to look until you feel right, healthy, progressing. Just as with a family doctor, and so on. WHat do you think?
Anyone else had positive/bad experiences re this matter?
Hi V,
You dod not make me feel bad – on the contrary I was actually left a bit confused by your posts..I didn’t meant to make anyone angry but also I realised no one should feel angry about what I say here – as someone noted, it’s a place where we come with fears and scares and all sort of thoughts we hold very dear – even if they may seem bad to others. But I didn’t particularly like your tone because as, again, someone pointed out further doen this thread, we come here to feel safe with our thoughts and anyone who wants to tell us a truth or point a flaw should do so with kindness or firmness of a gentler fashion. Nobody reacts well to having their ideas even mildly laughed at, or to having a good telling off that perhaps should only be done by close close friends, family… The me before would have reacted differently to your post and ended up feeling low and ..childish in expressing what seemed like immature thoughts, judging by your words. However after some time of working on myself, I now am a bit slower on reactions and taking upon myself the feelings of others and I did think perhaps your reaction was actually a personal response/projection of something that happened to you, or an expression of your strong beliefs. Which is absolutely fine – I hope you don’t take this the wrong way but I just wanted to say that some of your ideas were great, however..should I have been a very sensitive, self-counscious person or in that sort of state when writing, your reply would have definitely made me feel worse, and unwelcomed. I guess I’m trying to say we are all here to learn and grow and definitely exchange opinions but in a loving, safe way, not the harsh, see-if-I-can-trigger-something-in-you sort of way (which is actually common with many of our ex partenrs probably).
Hope you are well and will not misconstrue what I’ve just said.
Ro
You learn from experience and reading everything you can about relationships and you keep in mind that you have to be more aware than others because there were gaps in your socialization process. Pay attention: if it feels wrong, it is. For instance, I was really derailed by a diagnosed narcissist; read everything on the disorder which explained what to look out for in the future, how to deal with this person at work (ignore his sorry ass), why I was so traumatized by it. Am currently sorta seeing a widower: read everything about these folk along with signs they are/are not over their late spouse. If things go south I know what is outta my control, what I need to own myself. Knowledge is power.
I too was raised in an atmosphere of severe social stunting. Not allowed to date, huge responsibilities foisted on me from about age 10. Basically the maid/caretaker/parent rather than a daughter. By 17, when I shouldve been dating, having boyfriends, I’d bailed outta the family,working my way thru college and raising a brother as my son. I had nothing in common with peers. Lived on a different planet. Later, such relationships I got onto tended to last a long time so very little dating experience. Some behaviors throw me for a loop simply because I haven’t ever experienced them. However, my crappy upbringing has also made me strong, skilled, self sufficient. To, how has your upbringing made you strong? What are the deficiencies, how can you gain the knowledge that you need? Who are you in reality? Do you see repeated patterns in relationships? BTW, please don’t diss wolves. They have an elaborate pack/social structure where the young are taught and nurtured by all, they limit their population to fit the prey base, and through predation, actually serve as a keystone species, allowing much more healthy ecosystems wherever they are. It’s we humans that are a hot mess.
Hi Noquay,
Thanks for sharing that – I do like to read about things although some may say that when delving too deep into a subject and especially a painful one, you end up thinking too much about it. I personally like to – as you said- read about it. I like the fact that once I see the explanations, I see the light 🙂 It was the same with my ex after the breakup..I’d been crying and dying on the inside but my mind was starting to..shift even without any reading insight, and that was in the light of realising that I didn’t know this person..and then realising he’d always been like that but I did an excellent job lying to myself and covering it up (in the pursuit of the amazing-ness he was promising) and ultimately not being brave enough to say enough etc. BUT THEN! I read something spot on about narcissists and egos and harems and future faking and sweet-talking and healthy relationships and bingo… I realised that’s it. I’m going to be fine. It worked, Not sure if that will always be the case in the future with everything, i.e. when I run into any kind of difficulty, reading will help. But still, gosh it feels great to have knowledge! Like Marie Curie apparently said, “nothing is to be feared, it is only to be understood”. And another one by well someone esle, I think maybe P. Bailey – “you never find yourself until you face THE TRUTH”. I can’t tell you how many times reading those simple quotes has reminded me that I can see the light if I spend enough time getting to know more about the major things in my life. And you have just reminded me of how much I love to read so thank you for that.
I too grew up separate from normal dating and life but because I came across as lovely and positive and funny it was assumed by everyone else that I knew exactly what I was doing – belief that rubbed onto me so I ended up doing what I thought others like me did, or was expected of people like me, and so on. It was strange later on to become an over 30 trying ask basic questions to myself and feeling horrible that so may others seemed to know exaclty what’s what, what they want, how, what is ok and not.. I feel like I’m only now really defining myself. I’m almost even afraid to say that, despite the maaasive lows and highs, I’m actually enjoying getting to know myself and kind of..being happy? Even now as I write I fear I sound silly, or say stupid things, or overestimate my level of growth. But I do love knowledge, so it’s bizzare I’ve tried to escape it for so long…
P.S. I used to read growing up but I sort of lost ..the patience for it I think..or I just forgot to look after myself. The same goes for painting.
Again, thank you for your thoughts.
Great post Natalie!
My ex Narc would do this to me, dissapear for a period of time just long enough for me to Forget.About.It.. The Reset Button had been pressed and it was Wash.Rinse.Repeat…
On the last occasion he made contact (through lazy communication-text) I did explain to him how hurt I was and how he made me feel and he said it was all his fault and he had issues then low and behold he does the exact same thing again.
They will say anything to get that Reset Button pressed!!
I do check in from time to time and keep up with BR, and this great post brought a wry smile. When offenders tell you to forgetaboutit, let it go, stop being so unreasonable, so naggy, so tiresome, so ‘judge and jury’, so UN-FUN, they’re telling you to disregard your inner voice and feelings. They’re telling you that they hate all your talk of boundaries and respect and your stuck-up ideas about healthy relationships. They’re training you away from any decent expectations of them.
People who really care about you — including friends — who don’t trample all over you will ask you in so many words if you’re sufficiently prepared to let something go, not tell you to do so.
Amen. It has taken me so long to get this!! Better late than never. It’s so much harder to swallow this truth when it is someone who supposedly loves you.
I will always remember a friend of mine saying “Don’t be fearful of letting him go because you can go two years without him, and he’ll come back into your life and go on as if nothing has changed.” And I see that all the time.
Just the other day I got a text after not hearing from him in months that just had the nickname he gave me and nothing more. Then silence. I have had hundreds of text like this over the years. So I text back (I know…I shouldn’t have) and said “what do you mean when you just text my nickname?” And typical of him….his response “sending my love.” Hahaha. It’s all a game. Always a game. But now I know that he’s probably just lonely and inbetween hunts. After I saw his response, I put my phone away and I went and met with my personal trainer. It truly is unbelievable how they operate.
Rewind your so right it is just one fat ego game they play.
They always come back whether it be weeks, months or years and it’s usually when they have dry spells or like you said in between hunts..
It is unbelievable how they operate, they have no shame for their wrong doing or for the pain they cause.
We all deserve so much better!
I think that people who try to press the reset button don’t want to be accountable for their actions. The ex-AC disappeared because he was seeing someone else (he knew I knew) and then shows up after two months acting like nothing happend. Never said one word about where he was, just went on about how he started his new job blah, blah (press reset button). I knew he wasn’t going to say, “hey I know you are still mad because I stopped seeing you to see the other woman, but hey I’m here now” (Fuggedaboudit). You know what I never said one word about her I just said to myself this man is out of mind! He has some balls to comeback acting like everything is okay. I just went NC and never looked back.
Natalie, this text is everything I needed to read today. My ex was always doing this to me, he always made me feel like I was constantly bringing stuff up to rock the boat making me feel like I was a drama queen when in fact I was talking about my feelings. It got to the point that he couldn’t hear anything, anything that I would ever bring up he said: “I don’t want to hear about it” which made me very angry at him.He was never able to listen to me and accommodate what was being said instead he always took the defensive side, almost as if my calm conversations were attacks on him when I was sharing with him how I was feeling so that we could reach some sort of a compromise because I think that this is what people do when they’re interested in investing in a healthy relationship. He just didn’t know how to take any kind of conversation because he thought any conversation was a confrontation. I must say that in many of these talks I lost my cool and I became very angry at him because I just couldn’t believe that a person could be so sealed and sheltered from discussions. It was frustrating to me his inability to hear on neutral and to listen to me, for real. Needless to say there was never any apologies, he was proud and stubborn and found on his father, his only friend, a person with whom he would often talk about how horrible of a person I was. He asked me to move in with in, to move cities to be with home, which I did, and from the very first night, in our home, he complained to his daddy about how I got tired of driving after 7 hours – he can’t drive – and I got cranky and we stopped in another city and the hotel cost us more. That made me a bad person to start with. This was my day one with him. The mask of the nice guy fell and it took me a year of hell to finally accept it. I still get confused and often think about this: was he a psychopath? Was he a nice guy and I’m really that awful? Maybe a combo of both? But this article helped me realize it may not all be about me. That he preferred to reset button due to his inability to relate. There was a lot of gaslighting, a lot of abuse, a lot of holding grudges he never let go in a way to control and manipulate me. He kept a tab on every mistake I made and would often say we should move on without talking but the situations were never resolved. People like these cannot talk or express their feelings and I think this should be a sign that they’re not prepared to have a relationship. I was manipulated by this, I was in a Stockholm syndrome living in the middle of nowhere, he started to have girlfriends that he’d badmouth me to them as well as his father. When I found out he went to the movies with one of them he said he needed to have friends to vent. Maybe he was cheating on me. But an ads clown will always find a way to make you feel guilty and to never own responsibility. And you’d think that I’d have had the strength to get the hell out of dodge right? It became an obsession for me to try and fix him and the relationship. To make it work. I got stuck to the idea of the person I had first met. And he continued to give me less and less and I started to starve for crumbs. Just awful. It’s been 3 months with no contact, I have a lot to work on still and to digest…what scares me to death is that I may attract another narcissistic ass clown all over again and get blinded by it or that I won’t learn from my mistakes. Your self esteem course has been helpful in the sense I now realize how little boundaries I gave. How I must learn to love myself more. How I must believe the red flags because they ain’t going to get any better. Which leaves me with only one certainty: althought I miss few aspects of the relationship, my life is not toxic anymore. It feels empty and strange being single again but I have peace which is priceless. Next time I hope to believe when red flags go up and think of me and my values and if they don’t correspond, I get the hell out. It’s a destructive process to ourselves, to stay and resolve their issues. I learned the lesson: not worth it.
@Viviane. Your anger will protect you from being prey to such narcissists again. You’ll find it once your fear lifts and you feel safe enough to be angry.
In the meantime: I bet one of your parents is like the ex you describe… find the similarities and you’ll be better prepared next time. Best wishes, V.
@V, my dad is a shy guy, present but reserved, but he was never abusive towards me. I think I attract the shy guys, I can see a similarity here. I’ve been feeling angry for being so naive and for being sucked into his game with no self care, protection and love. I just don’t know what to do with the amount of pain I feel and resentment that boils some days. It’s in the past but it haunts me a lot and if anyone know how this gets better, please share your thoughts, thanks!
I know I’ll probably get some tough love from everyone, and I know I deserve it for a few reasons. But I honestly don’t understand and would love some advice/opinions! Here goes: My ex loved to do this with me. He’d disappear for a few days, a week, 2 weeks, etc and then try and hit the reset button. Acted like nothing had happened. No explanations or apologies. He was a complete AC and EU when he and I were together. Did the whole future faking, fast forwarding, hot & cold, etc. He ended things with me after a year, claiming he didn’t want a relationship. Well…almost 2 months later he had a new one. They’ve been together 9 months (LDR,Date once a week). He and I have a couple mutual friends that I spoke to last week and they told me that he was busted for cheating. It wasn’t physical, but it was still emotional/online (sexting, etc). Plus it was the other woman involved that went to the girlfriend with photos of their conversations. This new girlfriend called him out on it over the weekend, wants to meet up with him and talk about everything but told him she “didn’t know what was going to happen, as she is unsure”. He’s been so distraught over it. Telling friends that he couldn’t bare to lose her. Our mutual friends also told me that he’s been really ill and had to cancel on her. She messaged him with a “How are you feeling? x” text. This woman is obviously going to give him another chance. Why else would she want to meet up and be sending kisses? He told our mutual friends that he is “Mad about her and she’s everything he’s ever wanted. He’s never felt this way about anyone before.” So my questions are: Why give someone a second chance after they’ve cheated and betrayed you? & Why does he seem so different with her? Yes, I know he is still an AC because he cheated on her, but he never acted so “in love” with me. I realize I shouldn’t give a damn about any of this, but I’m still in the process of getting over him and trying to work on my own issues. It’s just that it seems like he gets everything, even after cheating on his girlfriend AND how he’s treated other women.
Confused, he’s not really in a relationship if he’s got LDR and only sees her once a week. It’s easy to pretend being all loved up once a week. As to what he says it doesn’t matter because you know very well how he lies. Why do they do that and hurt so many in the process unpunished? they do it because we allow them to, and to get away with it. as long as they know there’s a minimal chance they’ll be allowed back and there’re enough desperate women to take them back, they’ll continue to be like that. you don’t need to be such woman. the first step would be to stop fixating so much on him and atop listening to mutual friends.
Utterly, he hasn’t changed. He isn’t different with her. He’s the same as he was with you, and always will be the same with whomever he’s with. Leopard/spots etc.
So these mutual friends who tell you lurid details about how he puts ‘x’ in his texts to her and how ‘in love’ he is — why are they telling you this? Are you asking or are they offering you this information? And it’s true, is it? Or maybe it’s just a story they’re telling you to see how you react? Because I have to ask if the sexting with other women is how he expresses this amazingly deep once-in-a-lifetime love, care and respect for his current girlfriend. The lucky old thing.
@UtterlyConfused. Oh alright, so here it goes.
“he never acted so “in love” with me”:
So he didn’t love you enough to cheat on you? I understand the disappointment. Once you manage to get back with him and treat yourself to a ‘being cheated on’, you’ll see that you’ll get the same dependent behaviour from him, he will ‘need’ your forgiveness as he needs the new girl’s. *That* you call love.
“Why give someone a second chance after they’ve cheated and betrayed you?”
So now you’re identifying with her, your ‘love’ rival? you’re worrying about her? How very generous of you.
“Why does he seem so different with her?”
Because you are temporarily blind.
You need to go No Contact in order to “work on your own issues”.
Nice friends btw., super good people, can I have their number I want them.
Go NO CONTACT.
V.
@utterly: I agree w V. Your post is totally full of drama. Your friends are also into drama (read last weeks post on friends that talk too much). You are actually lamenting his current relationship as if it were happening to you! Nothing in your post is about you. You are obsessing over emails and texts that you are hearing about third hand. Why are you searching out this info when you know it makes you feel crazy? Where’s your self preservation?
Maybe just maybe he does love her more — he loves her enough to cheat on her and then manipulate her saying oh he’s so ill w love without her. Maybe he truly loves her and is such a sad sack damaged person that he has to cheat (sarcasm alert). Even if he’s a lousy person – he is allowed to love someone more than he loved you. It’s not a competition. You are worthy in and of yourself without validation from this demented fool of a person. Haven’t you loved people more than you love him? Do you love him in fact? Or is this sour grapes…
I so need these kinds of comments! Keep ’em coming everyone! Yes, my post is full of drama. And it is very sad that I even care about any of it. Some of what I said in my post got a little mixed up so I’ll try and explain a bit.
I have been NC from him for months. Our mutual friends think they are ‘helping’ me by letting me know that the ex and his new girlfriend are having issues. Everything they told me is 100% true. How do I know? Sadly, they have shown me texts from him, facebook messages from her, etc. I have not asked our mutual friends about him, because there is still a lot of pain that I am dealing with because of him. I do not love him still. I do not want him back. I don’t envy her at all. I do realize that people can love the next person more than me. I also know that I am fixating on them. That is one thing I’m trying to work on. In some twisted way, I believe that he does love her. Even though he cheated on her.
He was a complete EU/AC with me. He strung me along for a year, used me and lied to me about not wanting a relationship. Then got into one with her and he was treating her better (until cheating on her this month of course), eg: actual dates, introducing her to friends and family, planning holidays.
I guess I had hoped that someone would dump him and break his heart the way he did me. Maybe that’s petty and childish but that’s how I feel. Apparently nothing will ever stick to this guy. He always gets what he wants and gets away with things.
I just don’t understand why she is going to give him a second chance. She has actual proof to look at. What more does someone need to end things? If someone had done that to me, I would have ended things the day I found out. I certainly wouldn’t have texted him, after hearing he was really sick (intestinal issues) asked how he was feeling and then add a X on the end of it.
UC, you are mistaken. You are NOT no contact with this guy. Being no contact is a lot more than just staying away from someone physically. True NC involves the efforts you make to change the way you think about someone and putting the focus entirely back on YOU. It includes NOT hearing what’s going on with him from other people, and shutting down anyone who does try to mention him. Otherwise you’re just fooling yourself.
“I guess I had hoped that someone would dump him and break his heart the way he did me.” That’s what this is really about. And I get it, I really do. I certainly felt that way about my ex who also seems to get away with everything and go sailing off blissfully into the sunset. You’re dealing with your own strong ego that doesn’t want to give up power and control. But it’s a false sense of power and will only make you more miserable. Real power comes from being so strong and centered in yourself that nothing external can bother you that much. Real power comes from learning how to let go and let it be. That takes total NC, total. The question is not “why is she giving him a second chance?” but “why can’t I turn away from this train wreck and focus on my own life?”
LET IT GO. The word I use is INDIFFERENCE. It doesn’t MATTER if he is happy, sad, dating a prom queen….he is no longer in your life so let it go. Move on. And tell your friends you don’t wish to hear about him, PERIOD.
Love not based on honesty is called a DELUSION, a lie.
BTW ofcourse he is having intestinal issues, he is building gas to fart all over the next candidate (hehe borrowing Natalie’s terminology!)
@utterly; if I know something stresses me I tell my friends – ‘that is not something I want to talk about. Did you see the movie xyz?’
You’re pretending you have no power at all.
You’re worried you’re unlovable. That him rejecting you for someone else is proof. If she would just dump him it would solve your immense fear that really you’re not good enough. Guess what? If your fear is that deep, her dumping him will not solve anything. And your posts show that you are trying to do everything to avoid facing yourself.
Tbh — if you must obsess over him go ahead. If you end up getting back w him etc, then you’re truly in the deep end. As long as you’re just making yourself miserable mentally but not actually getting back – well it’s your choice to make yourself miserable. One day you’ll decide you deserve better from yourself and you’ll stop. It’s not easy. I need to get on track myself.
@Confused: Even though you say that you’ve had no contact with him, you’re still emotionally and psychologically invested in hearing about his mess with the new chick.
Please stop. The bottom line is, he is an old discarded toy that now belongs to her. Let her have him and ALL of his cheating, shenanigans, and high stakes drama.
Try your absolute best to move on and completely cleanse your heart and soul of every ounce of negativity that came along with him. It is a daily, sometimes moment-by-moment, work that you must do so that you’ll be ready and free to love again with the person who’s meant for you. He can’t come until you’re ready. The longer you take to prepare yourself and be ready, the longer it will take for him to show up.
In the meantime, work on yourself and be clear and focused on what real love looks like and how it feels. Study the real so that when the counterfeit shows up, you’ll have the wisdom and strength to immediately dismiss it. And when the next guy coms along, and after the newness of the r’ship has worn off, THEN you’ll start to see the real attributes of the guy — both the good and the bad.
Lastly, any cheating or infidelity is NOT love and those awful behaviors bring a crapload of pain and possibly the guy’s nasty cooties. And who wants that?
Good luck!
@UtterlyConfused. Great advice here from everybody but I wanted to ask something about a lateral issue if you care to answer; just a curiosity really.
Your ‘friends’ show you texts from him to her and pictures on facebook etc. to you who have been dumped by him? WHY? What’s going on here? I have joked about this before but your friends are behaving really badly. If a friend of mine is trying to recover from a break-up I shield her from further hurt not provoke or fuel it. Why are you allowing this? I am a bit bewildered… V.
Thank you everyone for the great advice and comments. You are all right. I am still emotionally attached to him and I am not in true no contact. I was hoping that someone (the new girlfriend) would dump him and break his heart, the way he broke mine. I’ve never been used by someone before and him getting into a full on relationship with her was another slap in my already bruised face. Sadly, she is giving him a second chance. I guess because he didn’t physically cheat on her, that’s ok in her eyes. Whatever. They deserve each other. They are both EU and she obviously doesn’t value herself.
I have told our mutual friends to stop telling me things about him and his relationship. I no longer want to hear about it. @V: Our mutual friends told me they were trying to “help” me in some way by showing me that he is still an a**hole and that things aren’t all perfect in his new relationship. I told them to stop sharing things about him. It hurts enough knowing that he still gets everything he wants, even after cheating on his girlfriend.
Utterly confused you are choosing not to value yourself before others.
I still struggle with pressing the reset button on my life and moving on. The idea of being apart of anyone’s harem gets to me in the worse way. Even reading the articles on this website, which do help, makes me feel naive and insecure being able to identify myself in having little boundaries with these men and also even a narcissist best friend. They can press the reset button and fuggedaboudit but the thought of being just a number or an ego boost or being manipulated by a FRIEND stay on my mind even after recognizing their behavior and cutting contact completely with no intent to go back. The anger and hurt that still remain is what keeps me from ever dealing with them again and also recognizing shady behavior from others but then the anger and hurt still remain.
Hi Hope
I know exactly where your coming from. I too realised that I was part of a harem and just an ego boost and that hurts more than anything.
Even though you go No Contact the pain does indeed still remain.
With myself I internalised what this Narcissistic man had done to me and my confidence and self esteem was knocked immensely but we must realise that it is not us with the problem it is them and they will carry on playing these games and pulling the same old con indefinitely.
Normal healthy minded men do not ‘Press The Reset Button’ or ‘Blow Hot & Cold’ or disappear for weeks or months.
I just feel relieved that I am no longer a number or part of a harem, and I’m sure in time we will look back at this and think what a lucky escape we had 🙂
Thank you K,
I do feel lucky to have escaped the harem. I even feel like i dodged several bullets because it could’ve been worse had I not recognized the shady behavior when I did. Forgiving myself for allowing it to continue up until that point is a harder battle for me but I’m happy to hear that you’ve turned your situation into a positive one. I’m slowly getting there and being grateful for the lessons learned
Reading this post helped me to finally connect the dots on some behaviour of my ex’s that I had always found baffling: how he would get drunk and be very abusive toward me and then wake up the next morning and act as nothing the least bit untoward had occurred; and throwing money at me (i.e., taking me out on expensive dates/shopping sprees/etc.) immediately after any blowout that was bigger than business-as-usual. Oh, and one more: He would not tell me about something I did that he had a problem with, but would throw it out at me six months later while we were fighting about something else!
His most head-spinning reset button instance occurred just a few months ago when he seemed convinced that he could just move back in with me and (unilaterally) reset us back to ca. December 2012 before we’d even begun openly discussing splitting up. That, after all those conversations of a year ago that We. Are. Getting. Divorced. Full-Stop., and this is a PERMANENT move back to Japan for him! Denial much?
I rarely comment but still lurk…but had to say: sadly, this is the majority of the men in my romantic history:( SMH!!!
I was going out with a married man for 3 years on an off,he did all them things disappeared a lot ended us a lot coz he was confused! I loved him and kept taking him back!,if I got angry with him over him cancelling dates and lying he would withdraw or end us! Him and his wife are splitting up but he rang few weeks ago he was awful on phone saying he met another woman he did’nt want to see me anymore, he wanted to wipe slate clean. I know I should,nt been seeing him but when he was hot he was lovely but cold was always followed! He discarded me like trash it was awful I will never answer him if he gets in touch again.And worse I can’t talk to anyone, 26,days no contsct,
I think this dynamic has added to me gripping onto a small scrap of my pain, some of the leftover hurt. It’s as if, because I know he wants me to “fugeddaboutit” and act like it’s all good (so HE can feel better/avoid responsibility), I hoard a bit of my venom out of protection/prevention/repetition. Of course, as Nat shows us, *boundaries* and *change* are the actual keys to prevention, moving on, happiness.
But damn, it is tough because BOTH parties want us to “move on” – the difference is, they want to keep things status quo …and we want things to change. Great post. Thanks Nat.
I suppose that because my grandmother does not like the idea that her daughter married a pedophile, that that pedophile incested me from the ages of two to six, and that her daughter knew about it (my aunt even caught him in bed with me and chose to do nothing about it to protect me or prevent further abuse), my grandmother refuses to discuss the topic and even has gone as far to imply I am lying even though I went to the local district attorney with a report when I was thirteen, and my incester plead guilty. Living with a pedophile as a child has permeated every aspect of my adult life; I am unable to sleep at night, I have haunting flashbacks, and my self-esteem was obliterated. My family refuses to validate my suffering. In fact, many of them wish to compound it. Why? Because that is what they know, i.e., being mean as hell. And violent.
My father denies his aggression and past physical violence toward me, therefore, rendering himself unsafe to have any contact with, and, yet, he blames me for why we do not speak.
There are people who will admit to their wrongs and go about mistakes in a kind way, and then there are people like my family who will deny deny deny. None of us are saints here, but it is important to have self-compassion so that we may be empathetic. I am amazed and saddened about how cruel some choose to be in the face of conflict, because it doesn’t have to be that way. It’s okay to make mistakes, and it’s okay to admit wrongs.
Do I wish the man who incested me ill will or punishment? To be honest, no. I wish him reform and recovery from making children his sexual play things. I have reason to suspect he came from a home of generational incest; this is a generational disease. I wish him the wisdom and resources to get help and live a happy life. It’s taken me over twenty years to forgive him (and move on), but I do.
Jennifer,
Big hug. What a horrible experience a Child to have no adults who were caring enough to protect you! You sound such a strong soul. Strong and courageous enough even to forgive that pedophile monster of an animal who doesnt even deserve to live in the wild. Thank you for sharing, It does take a lot of courage.x
I really loved this post. I’m a big supporter of learning from your actions. Whether its positive or negative… you can forget about it but you need to get something out of it. It’s necessary to learn from everything that happens to you. For me, heartbreak was one of the best things to happen to me because I grew from it. I discovered so much about myself while moving on. It’s really eyeopening to acknowledge what happens to you in life and it helps you follow your intuition better moving forward. Thank you for sharing this.
I pressed the reset button every time the others in my life did – without question. The ultimate people pleaser. We mirror the disgusting behaviour they do to us – by not connecting to our true experiences/real instincts and acting on them in our true interests.
Friends, family and lovers when resetting are saying they do not connect with themselves also (ie their guilt and conscience etc) – and that makes them immediately dangerous to be around because they have no system in place to stop them from hurting others over and over again. You either deal with that or walk away, if you want to survive. Basically continue to ignore yourself and your existence at your own peril.
They may make it look like they have won/winning but it is superficial until they also do the work you are currently embarked on and live for real….