If you’ve been ‘tending’ to a rejection by watering it with copious amounts of rumination expenditure, it’s time to turn your ‘rejection talk’ on its head and look at your experiences with a fresh perspective. Every day I hear from people who are literally holding onto a rejection (that often isn’t quite the rejection they think it is), like a security blanket and I’ve gathered a few of the most common rejection scenarios…
“Dating is so hard – I find it difficult to deal with rejection.” Yes dating involves some rejection but the fact that you’re not in a relationship yet doesn’t mean you’ve been rejected and are ‘rejectionable’ – you’ve rejected people too and you haven’t found a relationship more fitting, which is what so-called ‘rejection’ paves the way for.
“I’ve avoided relationships because I don’t think I can handle the rejection of another one not working out. ”A relationship not working out isn’t the same as rejection. You may have had different values, which ultimately rendered you incompatible, or one or both were behaving counterproductively to the progression, commitment etc of the relationship, or you both may have loved and cared but you ultimately wanted different things – that’s not rejection; they’re very valid reasons for a relationship to end.
“I don’t understand why they didn’t call after they said that they would – what did I do to make them reject me?” They said they would call but they didn’t – why are you making it about you being rejectionable, when ultimately they are the ones that failed to follow through plus why are you assuming that it had to be something about you that caused it? The message is clear – you think people mistreat when given a reason by others. Not true.
“I can’t stand the feeling of rejection – I just want them to respond to my text, to call me, to want me back.” But this is short-term gratification – the pain will return afterwards and your ego isn’t going to recover if you keep pacifying with attention seeking. It’s also not rejection if them not responding to your text etc ultimately leads to them and you doing the right thing by you. I’m glad my exes stopped getting in touch and I had to sort my ego out instead of focusing on ‘rejection’ and chasing highs.
“I can’t get over this because I feel so rejected – it’s like everything that I am was tied up in him.” You can’t get over this, not because you were rejected but because you invested your entire self, tied yourself to them and then drowned when the relationship ended. That’s codependency, not rejection, which you wouldn’t see it as if you had healthy boundaries and your own identity in the first place. Reclaim yourself – inside you is a great you to discover.
“There must be something seriously wrong with me for him to just disappear – the rejection is just so hard to take! It’s not even like I got to reject him first!” Hello! They disappeared! It’s the cowardly way out – no conflict, an opportunity to make up whatever crappy justifications there are for lacking the brass balls and decency, and ultimately it’s the easiest way of exiting and pressing the Reset Button. That’s assholery, not rejection – FLUSH!
“If I’d had any sense, I’d have rejected her before she rejected me.” But it’s not a game. Your job in life isn’t to ‘get there first’. You’re not Charlie Sheen “winning”.
“I must have had about a thousand approaches from dating sites, which I suppose should make me feel good but I don’t have a relationship yet – what’s wrong with me?” How can someone who has 1000 approaches be focused on rejection? Maybe instead of collecting attention, it might be better to tweak your profile if needed and go on some dates. Don’t get addicted to the approaches – you need to be a ‘closer’!
“He’s moved on as if I barely mattered whereas I’m still here hurting. Why does he get to move on? Seeing her talking about their relationship on Facebook leaves me feeling like crap and rejected.” But their relationship has nothing to do with you. If you’re still hurting, you’re still hurting – he doesn’t have to recover on your beat and may actually have knee-jerked himself into a new relationship to avoid his own feelings. You could do that but you’re not (which is good), but also – if you keep track of him on Facebook and use his new girlfriend as a paddle to whack your self-esteem with, then yeah, you’re not going to move on and you’re going to feel like crap. Why open yourself up to self-rejection by using Facebook to take other people’s fakery and attention seeking as the inspiration for the I’m Not Good Enough story?
Focusing on rejection talk is actually a means of lying to yourself, which depending on how illusion inclined you are, can have you caught up in a fantasy that will actually send you back to the same pain source, or have you trying to right the wrongs of your rejection past on your next relationship due to making a judgement about you that in turn gives you a distorted perspective. This is self-rejection.
When all is said and done, the more oxygen and brainpower that you give over to a rejection, means that most of the rejection actually comes from…you.
Talking about your relationships in terms of ‘rejection’ is indicative of the fact that you were using this experience and possibly others as a way of gaining acceptance, or that certainly post breakup, you perceive it as a ‘lost opportunity’ for acceptance. It may not have been a conscious mandate, but it was there.
Now you can keep focusing on this idea that you’ve been rejected and flog yourself with it, or you can choose to let it go and claim back your identity. You haven’t ‘failed’ as a person and you’re not ‘rejectionable’ – there is another view, possibly even several views that you can look at an experience and gain an insight that you can in turn use to apply positively into your future. It requires you to choose and keep choosing that view.
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“He’s moved on as if I barely mattered whereas I’m still here hurting. Why does he get to move on? Seeing her talking about their relationship on Facebook leaves me feeling like crap and rejected.” But their relationship has nothing to do with you. If you’re still hurting, you’re still hurting – he doesn’t have to recover on your beat and may actually have knee-jerked himself into a new relationship to avoid his own feelings. You could do that but you’re not (which is good), but also – if you keep track of him on Facebook and use his new girlfriend as a paddle to whack your self-esteem with, then yeah, you’re not going to move on and you’re going to feel like crap. Why open yourself up to self-rejection by using Facebook to take other people’s fakery and attention seeking as the inspiration for the I’m Not Good Enough story?
Nat…have I told you how much I appreciate you? Well..I DO! This speaks volumes to me and I know you have told me repeatedly about it. I am finally getting it, albeit slowly…but surely. Funny how someone from my past just showed up and we have so much to talk about. We ended up huring each other because of my ex and I finally realized all this time what she was trying to say to me and I don’t even hate her for it. Guess that’s a good thing…right? Thank you for BR…it really has made a difference in my life! =)
That part hit close to home for me too. Along with NC I also had to cut myself off from looking him and his gf up online. I have been doing well about it until a few days ago. I was feeling crazy thinking about him and looked him up. Boy, what a bad idea. I just got more upset that he looked so happy and fantasized ways to break them up. I have been NC for 10 months and we have been broken up almost as long as the relationship lasted. I take it as a big rejection that he has someone and I don’t. But, I have to stop looking at him to see if I am happy. In my head I know all the right things to do, but my feelings haven’t quite caught up.
Tinker,
Ever heard the saying “time heals all wound”…eventually it does. It has taken me YEARS to get to a place where I am close to finding peace within me. I have realized I do not need to forgive him or his new gf to move on. I need to forgive me for being so hard on myself and making me feel less than her. Then looking at me, at my amazing family and great friends, I realize I am truly blessed.
The trick is to do something every day that you’ve been surpressing because of fear of or because you spent too much time on him. Give yourself a break, cry, throw tantrums, spew curse words and the likes. Get it all out of your system until you feel like a weight has been lifted.
I still don’t feel all that great to date exclusively, but at least I finally know what type of man I don’t want in my life and that is the clear picture of my ex….FLUSH! Hope this helps! =)
These compulsive online lookup behaviors seem rather common. It is infuriating to see that they don’t appear affected, doing well etc – we are only creating more pain.
On the other hand, 8 months after me, the AC was still single, been like that for 3 years now, no guesses why!! LOL
Time to FLUSH.
I’ve spent the last year or so feeling like the Queen of Rejection.
Why else would the EUM suddenly turn into the perfect facsimile of a devoted boyfriend to someone else when our baby was two months old? Why else would he have been ringing me right up until the very night that he met her? Why else would he treat me like chopped liver afterwards? Why else was she 22 and beautiful with no stretchmarks? Why else would he refuse to discuss any of his shitty behaviour when I was pregnant? Why else would he tell her that everything was ‘fine’ with us and that we were ‘really good friends’ but nothing else? Why else would he choose to take our son to spend time and play families with her whilst leaving me to do all the donkey-work by myself?
Wasn’t this proof that I was, in some inexplicable way, totally undeserving of any sort of love or respect or care? Wasn’t it proof that I was somehow very very annoying and awful? Why else indeed?
Here’s why else… he was a mess at the time, he knows that he behaved like a total prat and he’s spent his time ever since either trying to ignore the fact, justifying it to himself or else seeking validation from people to whom he is very careful NOT to tell the whole story. I met up with his gf about a year after they got together (mature co-parenting decision) and she very blithely rabbited away to me about how they met, what he’d said about me, how impressed she was that we had managed to stay friends, how I needed to understand that he’d been in a very dark place during my pregnancy, how she didn’t think that what had happened before was any of her business etc etc etc.
I smiled through gritted teeth, bit my tongue hard and managed not to say anything about anything. My word, the poor girl was pretty clueless.
Anyway, I now feel a bit like the Queen of Angry on the odd occasion, like the Queen of Awkward Social Situations in others and the Queen of Thank-Heavens-I-Dodged-That-Bullet most of the time. But rejection? No. The whole situation says far far faaaar more about him than it does about me.
Seriously, I think that my story takes several plot points from Every FallBack Girl’s Worst Nightmare BUT it isn’t a rejection story, much though it seemed like one at the time. Now that I know that I AM good enough to be treated better than that (isn’t everyone?) it’s actually a story about me triumphing against the odds and in the face of numpties.
oh, yoghurt-
you poor thing, but good for you that you called it!!! still, what a nightmare.
this all reminds me of that stupid movie “look who’s talking” – kirsty alley gets knocked up by a MM, who then prattles on about his wife, his daughters, then she goes into labor when she catches him making out in a dressing room with another woman, and she finally dumps him when he rejects their child and says he’s going through a “selfish phase”.
i’m sorry your beautiful son’s father is such an (expletive deleted). yes, you deserve more.
Aw thanks cc 🙂 I’ve never seen Look Who’s Talking but I think that I have to now.
I’m sorry too, but he’s a good dad, which is something good (and I’m putting it in my trophy case, because I was the one who supported him in it).
Besides, if I hadn’t let him into my life then I wouldn’t have been forced to learn some of the lessons that I’m learning… and much though I may dislike them, it’s my own fault for not learning them when they were presented in a gentler form.
My personal life is admittedly a bit rubbish these days and I mind, but I’m finally FREE of issues that have dogged me for more than twenty years – when I’m totally better then I think I’ll see that as a Very Fair Trade.
You’re smart! I wish I had a couple real live friends like you : )
Thanks for the blog, it’s GOOD work.
It’s been over three months since my x abruptly ended things with me over the phone, then a week later on a public sidewalk ambush style. I was caught off guard and didn’t know how to process it all. The ending was confusing, with his reasons contradicting. I did feel rejected, and thrown away like garbage. This seemingly sweet man suddenly didn’t give a shit about me, it’s been hard not to take it personal. I still struggle with it. I saw him in a passing car recently, and he craned his neck to look at me, grinning. I drove past stone faced and didn’t acknowledge him. It hurt to see him, honestly and the smile on his face pissed me off. I blocked his phone and email a week after he dumped me three months ago, and haven’t seen him at all until he drove past me grinning. I don’t know if he’s tried to contact me, but knew it would only hurt me more if he did, like salt in the wound. I have been in an angry stage the past few weeks after briefly seeing him. He kept saying to trust him, let down my guard and show him how I feel….but when I started to do just that and open up, he reacted put off and seemed to twist things around on me. Next thing I know, I’m dumped and I’m looking at his back walking away before I can even say, What just happened. I feel more betrayed than rejected. I’m in the midst of having a few bad days and some mild depression. Lots of tears now that I didn’t have a couple months ago. I thought I was past this stage of heartache, but it’s back again, tapping on my shoulder. I was so active in trying to get past this, and was actually doing pretty good, but I think buried it a bit and seeing him brought it to the surface. There really is no easy way to deal with these things. I keep busy, get out, exercise, go on trips, etc., but maybe I was just actively avoiding my hurt. Feeling rejected is a bugger. Better reread Nat’s post again.
I’m replying to myself, if that gives you any idea of my current personal, emotional, roller coaster ride. lol.
Natalie, I just read one of your old posts, “Why your still stuck on hurt”,
https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/why-youre-still-stuck-on-hurt/comment-page-1/#comments
It was an eye opener. Now this current post may sink in better. Still tearful, Partly because I’m dealing with my 19 year old cat in the process of dying. I realize how I’m feeling at the moment isn’t just about this last guy, its about the hurts from my past swirling around with it, and todays hurts, (my beloved kitty) all ganging up on me. Going back through your posts is like sifting through a magical spell book….there’s always one that applies.
@jennynic – Man, we dealt with a very similar profile man. My “sweet” man dumped me by phone, then wanted to get back together, got back into the “I love you” mode for Valentine’s Day, then two weeks later said, “Can we talk about our relationship? I don’t want one!” and was back within a week hitting the singles bars and carousing. Ouch. These things shock our sensibilities because they do not make sense. Trust me, they are NOT about us. The nail was hit on the head when FLUSHMr. EUM/AC said, “….and he is not normal.” No, these guys are not normal. They are missing something very important called compassion and the ability to treat someone with love and respect. I chose my name Broadsided based on him – I was simply broadsided!!
But here’s my take-away. He future faked me, I believed him, I assumed he meant what he said, and was almost giddy about it. He has taught me to GO SLOW, to keep my eyes open, to let time reveal the truth of the situation. That does not take away the pain of something pulling the rug out like that. It is inexplicable, but it is also mean. A guy like this would be hell to be with – no matter how sweet and smooth they came off in the beginning, this ending behavior is screwed and reveals who they really are. You’ll heal with time. Deal with feelings head on; this helped me. I also liked doing a “relationship inventory” from another book called “Getting Past Your Breakup”, where you process the experience, the good, and the bad. This blog has been amazing to me, not only because of Natalie’s wise posts which have helped me from the guy before this…to now. And it is amazing that other women deal with these hurtful behaviors from guys and we can all provide insights to each other and support. I’d be reeling in a lot more pain without it.
“I saw him in a passing car recently, and he craned his neck to look at me, grinning. I drove past stone faced and didn’t acknowledge him. It hurt to see him, honestly and the smile on his face pissed me off. ” What an jackass! It would have pissed me off too. And it seems he has a sadistic streak, pressuring you to open up and then “twisting things around” on you, and then later grinning at you, all the while knowing you’re hurt by the breakup which he initiated. He’s a Eum/SuperASS. You dodged a bullet!! Less nice people would have given him the finger. It’s not the mature thing to do and I don’t recommend it but do tell him to f-off in your mind. How dare he treat you in such a disrespectful, callous manner? He is not worthy of you. You don’t deserve that shit. No one does. He has problems.
I’m still NC with my former Mr.Eum/AC. It is a gift, no new pain. No tears about if for awhile now though in the beginning it was often. What helped it stopped was me realizing that we share different values, want different things, and he is not normal. It’s been months now and I’ve forgiven him and me and moving on. Not completely over it all but I think about it all less and less and carry on. I’m telling the truth ladies, things get better. Keep doing things you enjoy. I can tell you the following things are therapeutic: exercising in the sunshine, watching funny movies/shows, cooking, and spending time with family and friends. Sending good thoughts your way. HUGS
FlUSHMR.EU/AC, He actually looked surprised when he saw me, and his grin was like, ‘hey, I know you’. Not really intentionally malicious but more like clueless, or unphased to the hurt he caused. I don’t know, other than it bothered me more than I thought it would. It would of equally hurt if he completely ignored me. Go figure. All I know is it set off this emotional back pedal in me that I wasn’t expecting. Thanks for your encouragement and good thoughts, it helps a lot.
jennynic
I suspect that he has two modes:
a) Hey hey! There’s someone that I was horrid to but who didn’t mind. Must be because I’m so great, hey?
or
b) There’s someone that I was horrid to who kept banging on about how hurt they were. What a psycho.
The reason that you haven’t occupied the caring, bothered, thoughtful part of his brain is that the caring, bothered, thoughtful part of his brain is so miniscule that it might, at a push, be able to accommodate his goldfish. That’s not you, that’s him. What a div.
I’d add a c): in line with the routine of hitting the reset-button, he has re-written the story of the relationship altogether, or never was in the same story anyway, being a EUM that is, so he may genuinely be clueless as to how his ways impact other people. I concur with Jenny, he is not intentionally malicious and may not hold any grudges, he just a clueless idiot.
Yeah isn’t it lovely how we give them what they say they want so bad and then BAM suddenly we are crap – being told out of the blue, even though they were the ones so “Romantic” in the beginning.. and usually too much to be “Real” ( red flag / too much too soon to be anything but a fantasy. ) .. yep suddenly your hearing ” I don’t wan’t to be special”.
Then he’s off – and back to the b*tch that cheated on him, maybe she even got knocked up by someone else, back to HER that supposedly he hated so much.
What makes it even more wonderful.. is when his mother hates you for no reason too, and acts like YOU were the one did something wrong to HIM.
Ah the memories of my past.. I need a lobotomy, I want a lobotomy to rid of these memories that make it NOW so hard to believe anything a man says is the truth, (OR) that any of their words have any of the SAME meanings.
Oh….I have always been floored by rejection…and now I know why!! I have spent the last 3 years sorting out my issues round relationships after my marriage ended and my next relationship failed to do anything. I wasn’t making much headway until I started reading Baggage Reclaim. I have ALWAYS made everything about me and my worth or lack of it. I never looked at them and their worth to me! I also tried to delve into their headspace to make sense of their awful and self centred behaviour – now if anyone’s a nuisance and hurts my feelings or makes me feel bad tell them what I think and then I avoid them – I just can’t be bothered! Am not wasting my life or my time on men who generate emotional pain in my life – I am happier with just my own company – at least I am nice to me! Is so good to be heading out of that terrible headspace where I am somehow not ok and everyone else is so if they hurt me its because I am just not good enough to treat well. I have also ended my casual ‘relationship’ of 3 1/2 years and feeling a lot happier. He is depressed and lonely but that is another matter afterall he could have chosen to commit but it seemed as if he thought someone better would come along – well he is welcome to wait for Miss Perfect Pants. I’d rather live in the real world myself. Being single at the moment is pure bliss! Its peaceful and I get to focus only on what I choose rather than being diverted by some pain in the arse man’s ridiculously self indulgent, disappointing and immature behaviour. I really value Baggage Reclaim and your sensible and intelligent insight. Thank you so much!
Miss Perfect Pants! LOL! Love these terms you guys keep coming up with, and guess what? Miss PP doesn’t exist, never has or will for these guys, they’re always peering over the proverbial fence for greener grass so to speak and won’t find it until they do major work on themselves.
When the EUM broke off with me last year, the pain was brutal. I was hurting for months, and kept ruminating on what was so terribly wrong with me that I couldn’t keep it going. What finally cured me was just continuous reminders of what was wrong with HIM – and once the romantic illusions fall away, which they must after a break-up, your sane mind takes over and shows the real picture of what you were dealing with.
Would I ever take him back? Well, I have, but only as a casual friend. Yes, he came back and wanted to mend fences, but I made it clear I was no longer in love with him and things were going to be much different. By maintaining proper boundaries, I have my self-esteem, I am enjoying my frienship with him on its own terms with no future-faking or fantasies, and life is pretty damn good. Of course without BR support, I might still be wallowing in my hurts. Millions of thanks to all of you here, and the incredible wisdom, humor, and right-on advice from Natalie! HUGS.
(( He is depressed and lonely.. )) Oh god that describes my last heart-breaker.. Every chance was there for him to NOT be, but he chose to love HER so much, but ONLY after finding out she was cheating on him.
Then he cried to ME about how he was always “showing” her his love??
YES oh I believe him!! That is why he had to hide her from ME for years after all, having ME there waiting and crushing on him.. YES! because he was showing her his love so much.. that he had me as his EGO shag online here in the USA thinking he was a poor lonely Polish guy all buy himself in Ireland.
They seem to use the poor lonely guy tactic a lot, I am sure a LOT of women fall for that, so innocent, so sweet and kind, and yet.. all the time hiding 1/2 of their lives from women, the ones they are living from and the ones they keep on the back burner for just in case of an emergecy.
This post hits the nail squarely on the head. I went NC 2 days ago,…and I have been riding the rejection train since. I thought that it was really a case of me being rejected, not getting the realtionship I wanted because there was something wrong with ME, and now hes knee jerked into a new relationship to avoid the pain. Turns out, that he pulled some real AC behaviour in the past 3 years and we just dont have the same values or wants. It doesnt mean that Im not a good person, and dont deserve to be treated well. It doesnt mean that Im not attractive, or smart, or worthy. IT JUST DIDNT WORK OUT, and IM NOT WILLING TO BE A DOORMAT OR SEX TOY ANY LONGER. Im not about to run out and find someone new, even though im really lonely at times. I know that I have issues with being unavailable myself, and that I have a tendancy to live in a fantasy world, so there are things that I need to work on before thrusting myself into another “fairytale” romance. I made him out to be the best thing since sliced bread, in my thoughts. I still fight those feelings, and I fight the memories of what good times we DID have. I think about the fact that hes with someone new now, just a month after our 4th breakup. ( yup. im a poster child for doormats). But thinking about things more “reality” based, instead of blaming myself and feeling rejected, is a good place to start. Today,,…when i started to ask myself dumb questions like “why her and not me?”…I would say in my head…”STOP!! it doesnt matter, hes and AC with his own issues, and it doesnt mean that Im not worthy.” Thats been helping me quite a bit to not ruminate, and wonder why her and not me. Not every single time mind you, but its a start. Im sticking close to BR, Im reading back posts here, Im reading all the comments, and I dont think that I would have been able to get to this point without Natalie and her sage advice. SO, thank you ladies of BR, its been so helpful to know that I can start and end my day in a supportive, caring, and familiar place. Onward and upward. Because we all deserve it! BRING ON DAY 3 OF NC!!!!
HSN, bring on 3 years of NC. You haven’t been rejected. You’ve been accepted. It’s been a long road to hoe for me but Natalie’s new Dreamer book really helped me after only 50 pages. Now that the semester is ending, I get to read again and I can hardly wait. Get Nat’s books ASAP. Mr. U and the FBG is the best read ever, ever, ever. I’ve read so many self help books but nothing ever got so to the point like Natalie. The Dreamer book is a perfect follow-up.
I still can’t believe how much sh*t I accepted and how much I dreamed. I’m on a total dreamer diet and have started to see, I’m glad it’s not me anymore. Natalie and BR is the best. Be grateful it’s not you anymore. It is onward and upward.
BRING IT ON! Stay strong.
HSN/Runner,
“HSN, bring on 3 years of NC. You haven’t been rejected. You’ve been accepted.”
Well said runner. this really is the thing, isn’t it? HNS, try to see that you were being “rejected” by him when you were handing over all your power to him anyway, but more importantly you were being rejected by the one person in your life who you should be able to depend on to do right by you: You.
See it like this:
1. You were in deep trouble yet you did nothing to get yourself out of it (that’s the kind of rejection we should really be worried about.)
2. Now, finally, with NC, you’re going in there to rescue yourself. Yay. Don’t come out without you!
HSN, just keep counting! Big hug!
My goodness you just described me and what I’m going through.
Hugs from Lauren
Natalie,
From the bottom of my heart, thank you. I cannot believe my luck waking to this post in my inbox today. Every single word applies to me, and your timing has saved me. I couldn’t be more grateful for your work. Thank you.
And…sometimes we are turned down by a guy because we are simply not the right fit for him! There’s nothing wrong with that. Guys and girls reserve the right to date and decide whether or not to proceed. It’s not up to us to say we are the perfect fit for someone else. For those of us who have been upset that a guy didn’t call back or disappeared (wouldn’t that be all of us?) we need to check that we’re not doing the same thing to guys! Most of us are guilty of having taken the passive way out and not had the guts to “reject” someone straight up. I recently gave a very blunt “no, thanks” to a guy who after one date was practically ordering a ring. Choosing to reject him so openly twisted my stomach into knots, but I was trying to learn how to be more honest/brave (ugh!). Yep, it sucked to do it, but he thanked me for being straightforward – and it was good practice for me to check my own BS. Woot!
a year and three quarters time since the PU–Y disappeared after we were suppose to be married and I was the one..guess not…he was married this weekend to the girl after me..still hurts but what hurts the most is that I fell for it..after I promised I would not..the more time the better, its funny how you rationalize bad behavior…there were soooooooooooooo many red flags and i was always ms nighting-gale…I should have left after the second time I promised I was going to leave…I wanted authenticity, I wanted to grow up..I wanted the adult relationship with a nice bad boy..now i’m sad but I feel you must forgive them and yourself to move on …coming to terms with life at a late age and questioning your place.. hard..what makes it hard is that I’m college educated, have a great job , great income, not bad looking and I take care of myself.. I have always been independant,, he married a girl who didn’t finish high school and does not have custody of her own child..Ladies trust your instincts…change your man MO … start looking at yourself better yet learn to know and like yourself…don’t be me..Thanks Nat …you seem to know when I need… your the best-tah-seeees.
I finally feel like Im at my breaking point! This post came at the perfect time and really hits home. Ive been meeting up with my ex for the past 3 months and saying it was the last time each time. I want so badly to change his mind and want me back but the emotional turmoil it is putting on me or I should say Im causing myself is sucking the life out of me. I feel sad,depressed,low and like a prostitute all the time. I cant believe Ive allowed myself to become this person. I need help! I want to let go and move on so badly but keep going back. Im hoping with this sites support and advice I can find the strength to do so. Any words of advice is encouraged. Thanks for not making me feel so alone
Dear Sarah, there’s only one way to go, and you know it: going off the drug. Go NC, right this instant.
Basically, get to grips with the addiction! Lots of helpful stuff on this topic, I like very much the classic: “How to fall out of love” by Deborah Phillips.
Stay strong and remember: no more helpings!
Ah Sarah, been there and it is hard.
I found it helped to fool myself a little into NC – go no contact and tell yourself – it’s broken now, but if there is any chance of working, it will be in the future, so I’m going NC now. If you really do NC right, you’ll get busy and work through a lot of stuff on your own. Keep a journal, keep busy, take it easy on yourself. And NC will do its work behind the scenes and you will become free, and not want him back, but wish him well. Keep the journal to remind you though, in case he comes back too soon/at all:)
You deserve better than this from yourself x
Thank you guys for the encouraging words and advice! None of my friends or family know that I still continue to meet up with my ex so I’ve been struggling with this alone. Being able to reach out on this site has already given me strength and courage.
Starting NC today!!! I want a better life for myself and to love me again!
Sarah….I just wanted to reach out to you and let you know that, I too, have BTDT. I went NC three times (I’m on my third time and this time around it will stick). I went back…I don’t know why. Really. The High. The Validation. The Closure. The Whatever. Forget it. It won’t work. Walk away. I wish I had done it correctly the first time, but sometimes you have to live and learn. Go NC, STAY NC, journal, and you will start to see the light. I promise. ((hugs))
Dear Sarah,
I was right there a year ago where you are now, and even though the red flags were huge and snapping me right in the face I couldn’t let go. I’m in my sixties, long widowed, and I guess can be forgiven a little for thinking along the lines of “last chance saloon” when I was dealing with the EUM – but that didn’t make it work any better because I was very, very unhappy, tense and fearful, and that kind of energy by its nature can only create more of the same with whomever you’re relating to – including your own precious and wonderful self.
You’re among dear friends here who have all gone through variations of the same, and we’re all different ages, have different backgrounds, education, etc you name it, but we’ve all made the same mistakes and felt the enormous pain of the EUM/AC crapola. No matter how you may get down on yourself about your choices in this, most of us have made the same choices and not only do we understand, we know you can move forward to something better and much, much more life-enhancing.
You may have to be brutal, and go for the shock treatment. Try making a list of what’s wrong with your EUM and your relationship with him. Be completely honest, don’t hold back or censor your words, this is just for you. Rip him a new one on paper or on your computer, and read it frequently. Then list all the ways your life would improve if you weren’t dealing with him anymore. You may be very surprised how long both lists will be, and how those words in black-and-white have quite a bit of shock value. Then go NC ASAP, as Teddie said. In the end, decisive action is the only thing that will break the spell for good.
It really worked for me, and I pray it will for you , too. Hang in there, you can get free. That’s a promise!
Silverbee (love the name!), you are 100% right. To get over my MM and severe heartbreak, I sat at my computer and wrote a page entitled: EVERYTHING BAD HE EVER DID TO ME. Then I let it rip, all of it. Then I went NC and every time I was tempted I pulled that paper back up and then was horrified by going through the list. See, I think we start to forget what hurt us in the first place, and if you can remind yourself “the time he told me I was too demanding so I should f*ck other men”…OMG, who SAYS that to someone they say they love..oh, that’s right, he doesn’t love me and he is a major asshole and a cheater…do I really want to go through that again?….I’m feeling sick to my stomach, not horny between my legs….NO WAY am I contacting him!!!
Read it every time you get nostalgic and those dangerous rose colored glasses come back on…take those off and put your magnifying glasses on so you can really SEE what he was and remember HOW it felt….it works, I promise you!!
Oh, btw, I no longer have to read that paper when he texts me…I delete his texts without a second thought. But I did come across it one day when I was going through documents on my computer and read it again recently. I had forgotten all the awful moments, and reading it again all I could think of was that I had put up with that??!! Oh, when the drug has worn off, the reality becomes so very clear!
Do it like any other addiction. One day or even one minute at a time. Just think about NC for today. You can decide again tomorrow what you want to do…just focus on getting through today.
Here’s a little trick I play on myself… and it often works! Let’s say I want to break NC because I truly, deeply feel, right in this moment, that I need to be heard. I compose a new e-mail, but I address it to myself. I write the letter to my ex-MM… the one that spells out in painstaking detail everything that I want to say… and I send it to myself. I tell myself that if I still feel the burning need to be heard by him, I will send him that e-mail in 12 hours. Guess what? Almost every time the 12-hour mark passed, I no longer needed to be heard.
I’m growing to recognize, more and more, that my neediness for the ex-MM is 100% about my struggles with my past, my shortcomings, my habits, and really, at this stage, have 0% to do with him. I have been struggling with NC for the last 2 months or so. I have fallen off the wagon a few times, and each time, I have been the one that has broken down. The MM lost his interest in me a few months back, and for better or worse (for better, indeed) hasn’t been trying all that hard to work his way back into my life. He sometimes, absentmindedly, pings to see if I am still there… but I think, at this point, he just likes to know that I am there, at a great distance. I can see this. So, my fight to keep up with NC has largely been against myself. I struggle with wanting validation, or closure, or whatever… but on good days, I realize that I wont get it from him, ever, and that I will have to find it on my own.
Good luck… and trust me… the “write it now, but wait 12 hours before you send” is pretty damned effective!
My last real boyfriend, who was EUM but was an intelligent and fun man who just had relationship issues (yeah, huge problem), was addicting. The pleasure was so great it was hard to stay away, but I got tired of the price being such emotional pain and unpredictability – on, off, on, off. We saw each other for a total of 2 years, so there was some substance and connection there. I finally did go complete NC for 10 months – just took absolute and complete space. It sounds radical but when you have little control it is the only way, and shutting that door is the path to healing. I hope you sign up for NML’s no contact E mail – these REALLY helped me. One day, I healed, and responded to an E mail and now able to talk to him again, occasionally, and he’d moved across the country. This is good – Our chemistry is too powerful to ever be “just friends” in person. Time reveals whether the person and the relationship had enough substance to heal from and revisit as friends, or whether the person was just an asshole – like my last guy, definitely not friend or “anything” material.
Natalie’s NC-mails are very helpful. So has been her Dreamer book. The latter helps me separate the relationship from the person. The MM has his qualities and his flaws. Sometimes, I struggle with NC because I don’t want to punish him, because of his good qualities, because I am “nice”. But, the eBook helps me realize that we could be the nicest people in the world, but our Dreamer/Shopper tendencies make us a really bad match. We are like crack to each other. I have to maintain NC for my own sake, so that I can properly work through the grief, and re-build myself. I say that because I hope this applies to everyone else reading this thread.
Funny, Broadsided. The MM has also moved (and he took great pains to not disclose where; whether it was across town, or across the country. He cited finances as a reason, but I think that his wife begged him to relocate far away from his harem of lovers. I think, despite his frustrating tendency over the course of our so-called-relationship to manage me by never telling me the full story, this lack of disclosure was good move on his part. He says that he wants to build a new life; I know that I do). I think, as a result, that its unlikely that I will ever run into him again.
this is great stuff. i am sooooo terrified of rejection that it has prevented me from putting myself out there ….but i shouldn’t be looking towards men for acceptance. i need to accept myself.
Thank you so much for this post tonight, Nat. I read all of your posts (and Fallback Girl) religiously….they have helped me navigate my way out of a 2-year relationshit that was really destroying me.
I’m going on my 8th week of NC from “Mr. D.B. McSociopath,” a manchild who literally showed up at our house in his “ex” GF’s car (‘we’re just friends, I swear’), packed up all of his belongings and told me the reason I no longer have a man is because I get mad over things like him coming home at 7:30 in the morning. When he’s with her, “it’s less stress, so that’s where I need to be right now.” Um, okay. Don’t let the door hit you on the way out.
So, I saw him last weekend and I’ve been a mess ever since–he was riding his bike through the park with one of his friends and he was literally…joyous. He was laughing and carrying on like he had not a care in the world. This is the same guy that told me he “needed me in his life” and that he was going to marry me, blah blah. Yet he had so clearly moved on, so quickly. It was like I never even existed.
So after realizing how completely discarded I was by this AC, I’ve felt like I am in a pit of rejection, loss, abandonment and grief. Here he is, now in the arms of his new/old GF and having good times to boot. And I have my stack of self-help books, feelings of inferiority and questions about my value/worth, and minimal will to crawl out of bed. I can’t help but feel the sting of rejection and how it’s incredibly unfair that such an awful person gets to be happy and have someone, while I’m just…alone and struggling to get back to normal.
But then, a ray of light! A guy I once made out with at a bar during one of my many hiatuses from McSociopath, texts me out! He writes, “Do you want to go out for dinner this week?” I’m like, yeah! Finally, this guy who has been only half-interested in me is coming around! Wooo, such a major change from McSociopath who was severely dinner- (and cash- and planning-) challenged.
But of course Mr. Texty McText doesn’t come through. He can’t even commit to a phone call, much less dinner! And I had to reach out a few hours before our supposed dinner date to confirm because I hadn’t heard from him. His reply, “Can’t love, my life is in shambles right now…” Wow, that’s quite a dramatic excuse for getting out of dinner. Luckily, I had steeled myself for a likely no-show, as learned through my intensive training in the Mindfuckery Olympics by Coach McSociopath, I just now sort of expect it from dudes. I meet so few who can actually maintain basic social standards like calling to cancel in advance, not making plans you don’t have the mental capacity to keep, etc.
Yet I still feel like a huge, gaping hole of reject right now. I’m wondering when it ends…not that my ego rests on these undeserving cretins, but how do I nurse it back to health when I clearly have a target on my forehead that serves as a beacon to EUMs/ACs? And why are they rejecting me and not the other way around?
But reading this really serves as a reminder that it’s them, not me, or, it is me but I can end it by choosing not to deal with clearly brain-damaged men. I’m really trying not to develop a fear of being rejected and not take things so personal as I move on to dating again, but it’s really hard after dealing with a non-commital for so long and then being exposed a flip-flopper right out the gate! Sigh. Going back to my bed where no one can hurt me. Cue the tiny violins…
Yep
“I meet so few who can actually maintain basic social standards like calling to cancel in advance, not making plans you don’t have the mental capacity to keep, etc.”
I know you’re writing a serious message but that made me laugh so much, so familiar.
I don’t know if it’s any help, but I had a few hiatuses from the AC (a trusted family friend, groan) over the years – there was an epic arsehole (cringing at the humiliation), some lesser ACs and am EUM. I thought I was worthless. Before I met the AC, the guys in my life were not ACs or EUM. If there’s a lesson in that, it’s that if you’re at the behest of an AC, you’ll attract, and only want, and only feel worthy of, Mr Unavailable.
You say, “…I clearly have a target on my forehead that serves as a beacon to EUMs/ACs?”
Not anymore. You’re no one’s FBG or ego boost. You likely met Texty when you were feeling not good enough for that shallow w*nker on his stupid bike. Look to the future. He’s in the past and anyway who can’t show basic decency and respect, forget them.
Thank you happy b, you are SO right. This was my first AC as well, never had any issue with commitmentphobes prior to this, and your advice on being at their behest. Going NC/cold turkey and just working on myself and rebuilding my self esteem (and forgiving myself) is really the only way to detract these clowns.
Yep, you’re not that girl!
Yep
Re him being JOYOUS – you have him on a pedestal. Most of us have quite ordinary lives. My old boss would ask me what I was doing at the weekend – I would say NOTHING. He decided, owing to how I look, dress and no doubt behave that this wasn’t true untrue. He would introduce me as “And this is Grace … she has an amazing social life but won’t tell anyone about it”. I would smile enigmatically. What was I doing at the weekends? Crying over the ex.
They aren’t better than us and their lives aren’t better than ours, we imagine that.
As for Mr No Show – sit down for this – men you make out with in bars are not reliable. And, to be fair, he may have thought YOU a carefree girl who can take it or leave it cos – you made out with him in bar.
I know when you’re in the middle of it, it’s hard to be objective but at least stop telling yourself you’re rubbish and they’re better than you. Don’t place your worth in what they do. Riding a bike and being flaky does not equal “Yep is no good”.
The way forward is to completely (or as much as possible) separate your self-worth from what men think of you. Yes, it seems bizarre when the media is all – men like this, men like that, men blah blah as if they’re all robots programmed by the same unimaginative numpty.
What you think of yourself is what matters. It’s not about thinking you’re superior, or that you should be the one to reject them. It’s as simple as believing – I am acceptable.
I need to reword
“separate your self-worth from what you THINK men think of you”.
They probably aren’t thinking very much at all, bless ’em.
um…try five of these guys in a row – over the last few years. i have shut down in that department…for now. it’s hard not to take it personally. 4 of them i can probably write off as AC’s(3 for sure) – but, the last one was someone i wasn’t really that interested in but took a chance because he seemed so nice – and i usually go after the bad boys & BAM – the ol disappearing act. that one knocked me to the ground and i am yet to dust myself off. anyway….
Let’s make a pact Stella–no more bad boys!
So after realizing how completely discarded I was by this AC, I’ve felt like I am in a pit of rejection, loss, abandonment and grief. Here he is, now in the arms of his new/old GF and having good times to boot.
The number of people who go back to their Ex is frightening! SERIOUSLY. Even worse some of them still live with their ex.
Having Exes around is code amber. It is like you are being used for a temporary air bag!
McSociopath was triangulating me, or maybe it was quadrangulating (or strangulating?) me with not just that ex, but the baby mama and on occasion (Mondays, or was it Tuesdays?), the ex before her. I didn’t find all of this out, or I should say I didn’t have PROOF (I called all of them LOL), until we were in our 2nd year and basically over (enter Texty at bar). And by then the cognitive dissonance was so strong, I didn’t know who/what/how to believe. Jeez, I was so clowned by this guy! I soooo played myself. But what’s even more amazing to me though is how these women kept taking him back…years and years later, knowing he was with someone(s) else and…I just don’t understand how he had so many women willingly letting him walk all over their backs. It’s like no one was willing to end the cycle, not him or harem. But yes, I agree, there is no such thing as being friends with an ex–it’s a major red flag–unless you have a reason to be friends (you share kids, a business, whatevs) but yeah, SMDH.
@jennynic I am so so sorry that you are going through that….what an ac! He has issues seriously if he can smile at you like that after the way he acted he is either a sadist or abusive….you dodged a canonball dear keep affirming yourself it will get better. Two years ago I too was blindsided and I was so hurt and angry and now two years later I just think of him as a loser and not even worth getting angry hugs….@ yoghurt what a horrible story but the way you tell it kind of makes me laugh good for you! @ heart shaped good for you! 3 days nc tomorrow!
Thank you Dancingqueen. I know things will get better, and on my good days, I feel my progress. Your kind support helps nudge me out of this bad day stretch I’m having. I see others here go up and down like this. When I see others in a down phase, I always want to say “hang on, things will get better”. It’s nice to have it said to me on my little stumble too. It helps, thanks.
de nada jennynic:)
It’s encouraging to read all of this, it’s just so hard right now. The EUM I was with has started to seeing (again) an ex-friend of mine, and that really hurts, makes me ask that ridiculous question, “Why her and not me?” I hate that question. He has been rude to me, usually the “Silent Treatment” type of behavior after I confronted him about his behaviors and emotional unavailability. She swooped in after hearing he was no longer speaking to me, and has slowly worked at entrenching herself into his life (works PT with him, etc). I learned a couple of days ago they were sleeping together and now I’m hearing that she has offered to help him move, which he has accepted. I know in my head that he uses women, brags about sleeping with them, has even said, “I give them the 3 best months of their lives.” I know what kind of person he is and doubt that he has changed, but I still feel rejected, by him and by her. There’s a part of me that hopes he does the same thing to her, and then I feel like a horrible person for even thinking that. I try in my head to wish them well and that things actually work out for them regardless of his past and hers, but I go right back to feeling the way that I do. It’s so hard to change these awful thoughts.
Hi Lori –
I know how you feel. I have been there but let me tell you – She will get the same guy you did. I have proof from my own loser AC who quickly got together with another only to shaft her even worse. How do I know this? – she and I have talked. They simply are who they are and don’t change as long as their needs are being met. Don’t wish bad on her – it’s on it’s way sooner or later. If anything feel sorry for her. Hugs – Ramona
Ladies-When these AC’s show you who they are-BELIEVE THEM!
We all deserve better than the crumbs they offer-Hell I would rather starve to death than put up with this bs any longer!
Sending you all support!
Thanks for your reply, Ramona. I know I have every reason to believe that she will suffer the same fate as the rest of us, it’s just hard to given how everything happened. Part of me laughs at the idea of her helping him move, like why not ask some of your male friends to help. Then it occurred to me that he has no friends, so question answered. It is pathetic when I think about it, especially given they work together and he’s not one for relationships out in the open. Regardless, she is meeting his needs, which is the key to keeping him. She has figured that out. I guess time will tell how long he wants to play the game.
Lori, don´t question your thoughts! They show you what you´re feeling at the moment and what you´re feeling is anger. It is completely natural to NOT wish them well (though it is probably not politically correct). They made you suffer so your body is responding with anger – and this is the reaction of a healthy person. It may not be pleasant, but it is one of the feelings that will ultimately help you get over this moron. It would be unhealthy to respond like a martyr, to think things like “aaah, I´m so happy that they´re happy together… though they treated me like a doormat… were completely unloyal… disrespected me… it´s so wonderful to see that they´re having a great time!”
I´ve found that loving myself has a lot to do with respecting every single feeling I have, even if it clashes with my idea of being “nice”. It´s the only way to get to know yourself, and to respect your own boundaries.
Lilia: I like what you wrote about boundaries and linking them to my feelings. I am angry about the entire situation, and also a lot of jealousy, although I realize he is not a good person for me. It’s strange the duality of the wanting/not wanting. I have to ask myself, do I want him because she has him? That is the question that’s been floating around in my head. And then, of course, it turns to questions of “why does he treat her so much better? blah blah. Deep down, I know I should feel sorry for her, knowing full well the problems she has with relationships (extreme doormat history for years with another). Ditto for him and his awful behavior. Then the anger sets in and it continues.
You know, anger is good. Feeling sorry for yourself isn´t – all the questioning in the lines of “why does he treat someone else better than me?” (which actually means “I´m such a loser”).
This is something I was taught as a child – always avoid self-pity because it makes you feel weak and unable. So whenever you find yourself going on that road, put an end to it. It really is like kicking yourself after someone has punched you, it doesn´t make any sense.
On the other hand, anger is a feeling that somehow empowers you – it´s not like you´re going after them with a machette, it´s just a feeling. Of course, you have to use that energy positively so it won´t turn against you and you´ll get a depression or an ulcer. I´d suggest working out, cleaning out your closets, whatever works for you. Personally I get some chuckles from imagining my exAC slipping in the shower or falling off a cliff, but that´s just me. After a while, anger fades away and your self esteem grows.
“Personally I get some chuckles from imagining my exAC slipping in the shower or falling off a cliff” Love that! My exAC has back problems, so I always envision him throwing his back out and stuck in bed for a week, or my favorite, his Achilles tendon blowing out as he walks down the street. I think you’re right that I have been walking down Self-Pity Lane for far too long.
Wow, this is stunning! I too spent a lot of time trying to be the “bigger” enlightened person who was full of love and forgiveness and wished him and the new GF well. Well screw that! With the help of my fabulous therapist, I started to embrace my anger towards him, curse him out a blue streak, yell, scream, go beat things in the forest and finally, finally get HONEST about my feelings.
And paradoxically, as soon as I did that fully, I found that I COULD let him go, feel ready to forgive and actually wish him well. So that’s still a good goal, primarily for yourself to be free of the poison and resentment. But I couldn’t have gotten to this place without being willing to go into the pit with my horrible anger, rage and hateful thoughts. Not fun, but you’d be surprised how cathartic and healing this is!!
You are absolutely right – respecting every feeling without guilt, analysis or judgment is the only way to go. Only when you can feel it fully can you learn the lessons it has to teach you and then be able to let it go.
” I know in my head that he uses women, brags about sleeping with them, has even said, “I give them the 3 best months of their lives.”
erm no, actually the 3 worst months! lol what a tool…..
Wow! Not only was this article exactly what I needed today, but reading the responses so far show me my experience is not unique. I can identify with what everyone said. That makes it easier to believe that he’s not that special. He’s not all that he convinced me he was. And now, he’s just another man in my past.
Wonderful post! I always make rejection all about ME, that it was MY fault my ex just disappeared suddenly never to get in contact again. Never mind that it was cowardly and showed a complete lack of decency. Months later, I still play our last (awesome) interaction over and over in my head, thinking maybe I did/said/wore something wrong. I just have to remind myself: his rejection is not about ME.
[b]You think people mistreat when given a reason by others. Not true.[/b]
This hit me.
When people treated me badly I took it as an appraisal of my worth. They treated me this way- it must be something I did, something about me to have caused it. In reality it’s a reflection on them, what kind of person they are.
When we become entangled with these shady, messed up guys despite knowing better, it’s because of how little we think we’re worth. So it’s this cycle of negative feedback: you’re treated badly, you think you’re worthless, therefore you accept maltreatment from others because you think you’re worthless. And ’round we go. Well NO MORE!
He didn’t treat me like crap as some kind of deliberate reaction to an inadequacy on my part- he treated me like crap because it’s who he is (and I accepted it). Human behaviour is learned and ingrained over time, I didn’t all of a sudden cause it. If he was a good, emotionally available man who respected and knew how to treat women to begin with, he would have never engaged in the behaviour he did with me. (And if I was a self-respecting woman with boundaries I wouldn’t have accepted it!)
I suppose what makes it so confusing and hard to see for what it is though, is the fact that these guys blow hot and cold, so you wonder what “changed”. But nothing changed, he was the same person all along, I didn’t do anything to trigger his EUM behavior- he was an EUM to begin with!
I can’t believe how ludicrous my way of thinking has been, completely beating myself up and feeling the lowest I’ve ever felt, wishing I was more interesting, had a more exciting life, had supermodel looks etc, when at the end of the day it doesn’t f*cking matter. Why would I want to be with someone who can treat me with disrespect? Because I don’t deserve that sh*t. None of us do. So why continue accepting it? NO MORE.
Choose to let it go. “if you keep track of him on Facebook and use his new girlfriend as a paddle to whack your self-esteem with (.or his new ‘knee-jerk’ girlfriend you mean) this is like the Facebook Harem. It’s so true. Natalie you have such a way of putting things !!! it gets to the truth quicker (and through the bullshit) than anything Ive read before. its helped me the last over a year and a half to re-assess my other relationships with me as well!
Excellent post NML. Absolutely fantastic. I needed to hear this today. T 🙂
I’ve been reading your blog Nat since almost 3 months now, I found it by coincidence when I had My ephiphany on a sunday morning. I was analysing my entire relationships pattern until I came to realise I had commitments issues ( median to low degrees) and it had prevented me to grow in many area’s of my life: relations, family, work etc.. I’m still learning but since I’ve realised it my life is improving slowly. It came a 16 years “relationship” with a comitment phobic/AC/UM for me to see who I really was.. I’ve experienced it all with this dude we met on a party, looked at each other kissed for hours, exchange addresses ( We were from differents EU countries) then started the trouble I was 24 he 18 I had no idea. We found each other again after 10 years of silence.. on the internet I had built a whole life he pratically stood still I found him where I left him. There is something between us I believe to be some kind of connection, it sounds odd, spooky, at time scary but we have a very strong band, it’s been 3 months of NC after some tears, validation of what I suspect it was( commitment phobia on the highest form of it) via an article read on the internet, I felt him getting closer again, it’s here all the time. I’m not sad I’m not depressed I ve moved on with my life it’s too short and beautiful to waste it but it’s reaching me throught my dreams like last Friday night where I dreamt he was connecting on facebook had a new profile with his real name, was trying to reach me.. 2 days later I was on Facebook on a promoter page, I m in the music business so FB is one of my tools, and I saw a name appealing me surname was his, second name a pseudo I clicked on it and it was his profile. I don’t know why he subscribe to this is stronly related to me, my music friends network. He absolutely has nothing to look for there we don’t live in the same city( 90 km distance) but I saw at this moment he was keeping an eye on me.. I don’t care much I m a bit anxious when he s gonnacontact me I won’t be able to resist.. We’re all humans after all.. He’s so full of hesitations, doubts, fears, negative he hardly realises how he messes up with others.. I can relate to most of your articles, returning of childhood sweatheart has hit me the most. I dodn’t see it coming I blamed his behaviourback in time in his youth.. Now I know it wasn’t. Same here I got…
Hi nath
“There is something between us I believe to be some kind of connection, it sounds odd, spooky, at time scary but we have a very strong band”
I’d be really really really careful of starting to feel as though there’s some sort of supernatural element to your relationship. I’ve been there and done that – I spent ages thinking out and researching theories about my ‘connection’ with my EUM – it’s fate! It’s opposing star signs! It must a past-lives thing! It’s telepathy!
Really, I was just justifying my (bad) decisions, coming up with excuses why I had to let him into my house at 4am again and keeping myself stuck. There was a strong connection, but looking back it was based purely on me believing certain things about myself and him treating me in a way that reinforced that. Basically it was the messed-up manky aspects of his character meeting the messed-up manky aspects of mine – hardly something good and certainly not fated.
If you dreamt about him, by the way, it probably indicates – if anything – that you’re familiar with the way that he operates and you’re subconsciously expecting some sort of sneaky online contact. That’s all. It’s not divine intervention.
Finally, if you tell yourself that you ‘won’t be able to resist’ if he contacts you, then you won’t. And then you’ll spend longer feeling unhappy, confused and unable to move on with your life, but it will have been YOUR choice. You’re in control and you deserve better than someone who messes you about.
Yoghurt – “Basically it was the messed-up manky aspects of his character meeting the messed-up manky aspects of mine – hardly something good and certainly not fated.”
What you wrote there… SPOT ON! What kept me in the insanity for so long was believing that what I felt for AC was so special / intense / real and something I WILL NEVER FIND AGAIN.
Lets hope I never “find” that again!!
The more I am becoming ME …the less I see ever having in common with the AC. Which makes me realize how much I compromised for him. The re-entry back to reality is not pretty!!
I had an intense connection with a Mr. Wrong, as if I had known him before. I decided I’d probably divorced him in a past life.
Nath
This sounds like a fantasy relationship. The nice thing about a fantasy relationship is that you don’t risk being rejected. You can propel it all by yourself with very little input from him.
The not nice thing – it stops you living your life. It’s also unsatisfying so you fuel it with more fantasizing, until you don’t know what way is up.
The dreaming about facebook and his subscribing to your facebook is insignificant. How much time are you spending with this person in real life (not facebook, IM or even Skype)? Of that, how much of it is genuine interation between a man and a woman who are committed to each other and to their future together? That’s the limit of the connection.
I just wanted to say I’ve found this entire website a massive help recently, I got involved with a woman casually who’s life was a mess, I’m a decent guy at heart (but no sap!) so obviously we didn’t keep it to no strings. Then she basically edged me out of her life and it’s been a painful couple of months. There’s so much on this site that has resonated with my situation and I’d like to thank you Natalie for some great pieces of advice. Time to find someone who deserves me!
Why open yourself up to self-rejection by using Facebook to take other people’s fakery and attention seeking as the inspiration for the I’m Not Good Enough story?
Ouch! A wake up call! Thank you Nat! You seriously whacked me with this one! 😉
for some that have followed my most recent “rejection”, I had a massive , humiliating blow out to end what was a variation of FWB situation with an older man. we are both single. seemed less like friends as we went but we stared out as I felt very in control, and confident about the attention i was getting and then it waned and in a nutshell, we had several fights that basically involved me ranting at him via text and him ignoring me. my rants were bad. very bad and inappropriate and I actually am very sorry for how mean I was. I have no ability to accept being ignored. This was a man who would ignore me when he didn’t want to talk, text at odd hours or when he wanted. he never promised a relationship but I did want respect.my point is, i would like to hear from someone, specific examples of HOW self esteem was found, how one got over humiliating themselves in the name of stemming rejection, and how do you move on. I am basically aware of how to take care of myself, but i am frustrated at how i feel and how I can’t shake it and feel like giving up.
katy-
my HOW is an amalgamation of a lot of different efforts, all of which point to the same elements: retraining the mind, understanding and handling emotions, changing the internal workings of my relationship with myself, and changing actions and behavior.
these include:
– therapy – working with an amazing therapist whom i trust who helps me sift through my crap and will give me practical advice when i can’t come up with it myself
– friends – my closest friends are all on the same path of continuous transformation (and they are all, not coincidentally, childhood abuse victims) and we help each other sift through our crap and give each other practical advice – but we all keep educating ourselves and growing, so the group advice keeps getting better and better, all on the same path
– creativity – this is a biggie for me, going to acting school was a huge deal in learning how to use my HUGE emotional life for me and not against me. now i write. but for a non-actor, this can be as simple as journaling – write down what you feel, exactly how you feel and don’t judge it. you will have little epiphanies that help you.
– meditation – i advised gina the other day to google “mindful awareness” – this really helps
– education and reading, including BR – actually, start here – just type a keyword about an emotion you’re feeling into natalie’s search box and read all the articles that come up – this is absolutely retraining the mind, and is INVALUABLE. this is how i managed through the first brutal weeks after breaking up with the EUM, and i am a different person today, thanks in no small part to natalie’s help
you’ll know you’re on the right path when your impulses, your actions, and your behaviors change. sometimes the behaviors come first and the emotions catch up.
hugs
katy-
also – DO something else, something new, or restart something old, that has nothing to do with relationships. almost doesn’t matter what it is, but it has to be something you really enjoy and can immerse yourself in. not only will you be living your life, having a good time, and developing your skills and experience, but you will be broadening your horizons and gaining PERSPECTIVE. the idea is to find ways to feed you that actually nourish you.
cc
Katy
i’m in a positive mood so i’ll try to be helpful, though i think others know a lot better and are further on the road to recovery – also loads of posts on BR that will help.
I wonder if we have shared an AC! His disclaimer- never promised a relationship. Doesn’t have to answer your texts. Calls you when he feels like it and then is your ‘friend with benefits’. Will stand by and watch you behaving like someone who is hurt, heartbroken, humiliated, and still be your effing friend with effing benefits..when it suits him.
I went through this for years and as I commented yesterday, lost my place in the world and felt like I had something like a 12-step programme ahead of me to reconnect with myself and others, make amends, lose the humiliation etc. I gave myself a good kicking and am sure I have more tough times ahead, but right now feel that things are improving much quicker than expected.
A few things to help with self-esteem-
Turn your back on him. This is the hardest part. Anything you do before that to try and build yourself up will seem irrelevant. I had a long period of time where I knew it was wrong but was still in it – I paid self-esteem lip service, did superficial things to ‘look after myself’ but still felt worthless and made myself ill. I still think about him at least every day and have a lot of anger but don’t see him as a viable person in my future.
Nurture yourself. Look after your nails, hair, skin- not as a patching up job to make yourself look good for him, really look after yourself. Doesn’t mean spending loads of money – just find things that work for you and spend time on them.
Don’t force yourself into some crazy and unrealistic healthy living regime, but try to look after yourself. Eat fruits and veg, even if you don’t give anything else up. Go running or walking – you get fresh air, can listen to your favourite tunes, clear the noise from your mind etc.
Remember who you really are, what you like. Hear your favourite songs, see your favourite films, find new ones. Get to know yourself and grow.
Engage with people, smile at them, learn about them, but stand up to or steer clear of those who try and cross your boundaries or the nasty ones.
Live in the present, day by day. Think of all those wasted days with the AC and try to turn it around. Don’t try and rush yourself in the future but sow the seeds.
And look for wisdom on this site. It’s life changing!
This is priceless & practical advice. Thank you for sharing.
Thanks Yep! Enjoy your new freedom 🙂
Another great post. I was a rejection queen. Though rationally it made no sense. Typically it’d take me 2 years of wallowing to get over a relationship, but the last one took 3 years+, which I realized was just about 101 nights!
I knew in my brain that I was not a looser, but I was plagued by awful dreams at night or betrayal, reconciliation, and everything in between. My unconscious mind creating all kinds of monsters and horrible scenes.
Finally having such bad dreams over an extended period of time, I decided to go to a hypnotist. I’d done traditional therapy, with little results in regards to getting over someone.
The hypnotist helped me so much, so quickly I was stunned. I stopped thinking about my ex quickly and throughly. An example is my ex drove a blue volvo, I used to see them everywhere I went. Always in traffic blue volvo’s. My hypnotist suggested I do not notice them, and it worked. I never see them anymore. They can be sitting right in front of me, and it doesn’t register.
This site has helped me so much because now I am conscious of my patterns, and have a constructive way of interpreting what/who is in front of me. I am dating, in a very conscious way. Before I was all below the belt.
Coupling this site with direct work on the unconscious mind, and wow, what you have is a whole mind working together and keeping our best interests in view.
I love hearing all these stories from women who are seeing clearly, and changing their lives.
Thanks Nat!
I find it ironic that it´s precisely my fear of rejection that makes me cling to the ones that are most likely to end up rejecting me – always the weirdos with some kind of EU problem. This blog and all of your comments have helped me tremendously to open my eyes and after a month of NC I´m feeling better each day. However, I have this nagging doubt that is making me a bit insecure: what to do if I meet this AC/EUM in the street some day? Or worse, at some social event (we have many friends in common)? So far, I´ve imagined these strategies:
– hide and flee
– be polite and get away with some excuse
– act as if I don´t see/hear him if he approaches me
– act as if I´m doing great, have completely forgotten him, laugh a lot (this would be the Southern Belle attitude)?
What have you ladies in NC done when presented with this scenario? It´s consuming a lot of my worries and making me quite nervous.
My personal preference would be to act as though he’s nowt but just another person (which, after all, he is) – you’re not hiding from him but you’re not especially bothered that he’s there. If he tries to talk to you, say, calmly and pleasantly, “You’ll excuse me, but I’m quite angry about the way you’ve treated me so I’m not really up for polite chit-chat” and move away.
I unexpectedly walked into a pub the other week and my EUM was there (doesn’t normally happen – usually if I’m out then he’s babysitting). I was frettish and annoyed about it but the friend that I was with said “oh, just sit with your back to him. If you act as though he’s not there then he won’t be”. It worked as well.
I was dumped by my first love as a teenager. He was a 3 yrs older which makes a big diff wen yr young so fair enough. I vowed never again though. I was broken hearted although I understood why & it was a respectful breakup. Ever since then it’s always been me tht walked away rather than the other party. Always for sound reasons though & with respect explaining why etc. ie discovering umm, I’m not gay (after thinking I was for a while in early 20’s) etc. Or they had red flag issues I didnt know abt at first (only 1 guy ie xAC). Or they still lived w mum at 36 & had no intention of ever moving out (I didnt know better but soon learned) Things like that. I can see I’ve got issues w rejection tho even though I always do the rejecting instead of other way around, all be it for sound reasons. I do know I was rejected by my Mother aged 3 yo (& literally dumped into state care as a Ward of he State). Then I was rejected by my adoptive father aged 13 yo (he’d married my mum when I was a year old. I didnt realise he wasnt my biological father until I discovered this b accident aged 13. I wonder what my pattern says about me though? I haven’t worked that out yet. In hope to in time because when I’m ready I really DO want a healthy stable loving r.ship & would even like to get married (never married here yet – aged 42) 🙁
Hey @teachable –
Yup, a lot of resonances for me there, including being 42 and unmarried, the teenage catastrophic heartbreaking dumping (mine was with totally no respect; I was used so that his mum wouldn’t think he was gay), thinking-I-was-gay period, ignoring red flag issues, mummy’s boys, and the getting-in-first with the dumping. I was EU for years without even knowing it, while wondering why I could never meet anyone and settle down.
Yes, rejection by your mother can really do you damage. I wasn’t dumped, but my mother was very ambivalent towards me, and I picked up on that very, very early in childhood: a love-hate relationship, blowing hot and cold, easily angered, alternate smothering and neglect, very scary. I rejected her in return, again very early on.
I’ve since come to understand that she had huge issues herself in her marriage and her own childhood, including sexual abuse, and it’s helped me to forgive her. (And forgive her and forgive her and forgive her, because it never seems to end! But it can and does get better.)
It takes a lot of effort and inner strength in order NOT to take rejection personally, or as an indicator of your own worth. There could be an infinite number of reasons for rejecting someone, or at least for choosing one person instead of another. In my personal case, more often than not, I have a specific reason for rejecting someone: dislinking their behaviour, not finding them physically attractive, their ex or other women lurking in the background, etc. I can actually name the thing(s) I don’t like about them, and I don’t generally reject people based on mood swings or some vague criteria that are hard to describe. And I don’t remember ever changing my mind about someone once I decided I didn’t want them. Therefore, I tend to believe that when I got rejected, it was because of a specific “something” that the other person didn’t like about me.
On the other hand, there is another type of situation: the “maybe” category. 😛 They are people I don’t dislike, to whom I would give a chance if they showed interest in me, but, at the same time, I am not that interested in them in order to take decisive action. And I guess that can happen to anyone. I don’t know if I should count that as “rejection”, if none of us ever made a move or brought up the subject of dating each other. Probably not.
The least painful form of “rejection” is the one having to do with objective reasons, such as bad timing, the other person not being ready for a relationship, uncompatible values and priorities in life, lifestyles not matching, and all those things that don’t insult you as a person. Because, let’s face it, nobody likes to feel rejected, or to feel like someone you really like has a bad opinion of you. In this case, staying neutral and immune is hard.
thank you, natalie, again.
“When all is said and done, the more oxygen and brainpower that you give over to a rejection, means that most of the rejection actually comes from…you.”
amen. i think this is the reason i still have the EUM in my head too much of the time. on some level, i can’t undertand and accept his “rejection” of me, inability to love me, even though the writing was very much on the wall from the beginning and i did eventually take action to get out of it.
i think what i’m struggling with is the letting go (don’t worry, 55 days NC, i just counted). if i let go, that means its really over (its totally over, i forced it to be over, but that part of me doesn’t KNOW is over, or doesn’t want it to be), that i’m releasing him (something in me is still holding on), and that – this is hard to admit – i’ll never be able to “fix” it (he was broken, not me, and couldn’t be fixed by me, so “fixing” it is an illusion tied to past losses, which i know intellectually, but something in me won’t accept this with respect to him).
ultimately, yes, i’m rejecting me by not letting go of him. ok, i’ll work on that.
hugs, nat
@teachable: you will find what you’re looking for, I have no doubt.
“‘Seeing her talking about their relationship on Facebook leaves me feeling like crap and rejected.’ But their relationship has nothing to do with you.”
It’s amazing how we get programmed to interpret outside situations as being about us. A recent online discussion of women writers talking about reviewing had one prominent writer listing off the women reviewers that she found actually worthy of reading. I wasn’t on her list, despite being a prominent reviewer in my country. Do you know that I decided I had to go lie down after reading that? I immediately felt not just left out, but deliberately left out, snubbed, scorned.
I went and laid down and felt all the fuck-you adrenaline surging through my system and all the helplessness and just passed out. This is obviously not the only way to handle this, and in fact, I don’t even need to interpret what I read in this way, but it happens almost automatically. There is a trigger, I feel humiliated and rejected and then the emotional arousal is up in my body and needs to calm itself, slowly, as much as if I had actually been physically threatened and pushed out of a group.
It must go back to when I was physically and psychologically harrassed by classmates.
But I do have a question/observation. Maybe I’m just being a jerk here – maybe you all can help me see this situation in a better light. I’m home visiting my parents just now. Yesterday we were talking about this job negotiation I’m involved in, and we got on the topic of networking, and success being who you know.
My father started telling the stories of all the times he has been excluded at the professional associations and conferences and social gatherings in his field. He told stories of being snubbed, and said, “and I realized, well, I’m not invited to dinner, and I’m not part of the in-circle, and I never will be.” With big sighs. He went on about other people’s cliquishness. Now, I was taking many deep breaths, because he basically was articulating all the fears I experience daily. I wanted to effing scream because he was just so mopey and sighy about it – cue my whole fricking childhood of listening to him moan about no one liking him, and being totally passive in the face of meanies being mean to me. Cue me wanting to clock him.
But the thing is, many people DON’T like him, and he DOES get rejected in these situations. He DOES come off as clueless, self-absorbed, naive, and socially inept. But is it just ACs that don’t like him? Have I turned into one? I’ve noticed that I so hate feeling rejected, but that I feel like I “get” why someone would reject me, if they feel the same way about my lack of confidence / assertiveness and general passivity and self-blame etc as I do about my father’s. It’s like wimpiness brings out the bitch in me; so I kind of assume it must be a kind of wimpiness that brings out the bitch/jerk in others toward me.
What a cycle!
Hmmm.
Since I’ve been working on my self-esteem I’ve paid more attention to folk with low self-esteem and the effect that it has on others. The thing is that negative self-image is a really really draining thing to be around. If you’re even remotely empathetic and caring, you’ll want to help and yet – as I guess we’ve all discovered – the solution to low self-esteem can’t be found in other people, so actually there’s very little that you can do.
It puts you in a situation where you feel that you ought to help but can’t. That’s incredibly frustrating and tiring.
Low self-esteem can also manifest in other fun and attractive characteristics like: bad temper (it’s wearing being around someone that you don’t like 24 hours a day), casual cruelty to others (your opinion doesn’t matter, so who cares?), constant self-justification (just so’s people understand that you don’t WANT to be this way) and whinging (because you’re constantly fed up).
Even the most naturally delightful of personalities couldn’t make those things lovable. And I’ve started registering the inward groan that I make when someone with low self-esteem comes into the room and all my energy is sucked into the little black cloud above their head.
…so no, I don’t think that not liking someone with low self-esteem makes you an AC. I think it makes you normal, because the characteristics of low self-esteem aren’t attractive. You’d be an AC if you didn’t like it but you still used that person for all that they were worth and manipulated their lack of self-worth to suit you.
I’ve noticed that I also have a visceral reaction to anyone that I perceive as a ‘victim’ these days, I just want to Run Far Away. I really really hope that that’s not because I’m busy disliking my own characteristics in others, but it might be 🙁
(I should add that not all people with low self-esteem are unattractive personalities – in fact I suspect that a lot of fb girls manage to hide it pretty well and come across as very upbeat cheery people whilst beating themselves up secretly)
(I should also add that I’m very glad that I’ve been able to come on here and be my least pleasant, negative, low self-esteemy, victimmy self on here in such a supportive environment. No-one here has EVER made me feel bad about it and I’d say that probably played a large part in my recovery)
(Argh! What I think I’m saying is that I hope I haven’t made anyone feel bad about showing their less secure or happy sides on here. If I have, please don’t!)
Hmmm, badly-phrased.
I don’t think that it’s ‘normal’ to dislike someone with low self-esteem, I think it’s ‘normal’ (such as it is) to dislike somebody’s low-self-esteemy CHARACTERISTICS.
Sorry, folks, hope I didn’t offend.
Oh, for heaven’s sake.
This my last post on your question, Magnolia – I promise. It’s been a tough week at work but that’s no excuse for accidentally deleting the most important paragraph of my post (heavy editing to keep it below the word count) and then missing the point as a result.
I’m going to try to fix it now – if I don’t and I’m still just confusing then I’m going to leave it.
After the first paragraph of my second post (Volume XII, Chapter 3…) I did say something like:
“In any case, aside from the fact that somebody being dislikeable STILL isn’t an excuse for treating them badly, I don’t think that you can equate your reaction to your father (dating from childhood) to other people’s reactions to you as an adult. You had very little choice about listening to your father as a child, the circumstances had more impact on your life and I’m sure that that created a much stronger reaction in you. Your exes DID have a choice and they CHOSE to spend time with you. The fact that they were ACs and horrible enough to manipulate your lack of confidence wasn’t caused by your lack of confidence, it was caused by them being them.”
I dunno as that makes it any clearer, but at least it doesn’t sound like I’m magnolia-bashing all the way through – I should add that I think your posts are ace.
Yoghurt, I appreciate the response. I don’t think that when my self-esteem was particularly low that I would be able to hear how draining I may have been to be around. Maybe there are people who have low self-esteem who don’t ask others to constantly reassure them, or who don’t ask for support all the time, but I think where you find one, you find the other. I think Nat has pointed out that where in many women LSE manifests as neediness, passivity and emotional manipulativeness; in men it often manifests as AC behaviour (demanding rather than asking support, propping up SE by dominating a woman, etc; though by no means are these categorizations fixed).
I suppose in a healthy environment, I would have been taught to gently remove myself from draining situations and to kindly tolerate energy-draining people in social situations, but not to pursue closeness with them. I suppose the friends that quietly moved out of my life in my awful 20s and early 30s were behaving this way. But in my home environment, one person demanded support by constant victimhood and the other simply provided and provided. I have done the same (play the victim); it just keeps the SE spiralling downward.
I kept looking to relationships to prove “I wasn’t like that”. But it never occurred to me that I could be “like that” and still get into relationships: only, they would be the sort of relationships one creates when one is “like that.” Having a guy’s interest proved nothing. But his rejection certainly felt as though it was proving something!
Oh good, I’m glad that you’re not cross or hurt – thank you. I flew into it to say “of course there’s nothing wrong with finding your dad’s LSE difficult” and then realised that I could’ve just as easily been talking about you. And me, come to think of it.
It’s been a real head-spinner realising that passivity and neediness are all part of the LSE spectrum – I didn’t realise that until recently.
My parents have both had LSE in various ways, I think, but also stiff upper-lips, which is a different sort of scenario. I remember, for example, when I was being bullied at school, my mum (who I think partly set me up for being bullied by acting as though I was going to have a dreadful time at secondary school and scaring me stiff) saying basically “I got bullied at school too. This is the way that it is for people like us. But it’s not the end of the world”. That was all very well. Yes it was, at the time. What teenager would enjoy feeling as though they were born unloveable and deserving of crap?
I spent my teens and twenties going through various phases of “It is very unfair that the world should be so” and grumbling at people about it, and “It is only so when you don’t have x,y and z (a boyfriend was top of that particular list)” and “Please prove to me that the world is not so”… it’s only now that I’ve realised that it doesn’t NEED to be so, unless YOU choose it.
I really wish that my mum had flown into school and said “this is happening to my daughter and I think that you should sort it out” – maybe that would’ve made me feel that there was a better way to live your life than ‘cheerfully’ suffering the afflictions of a charmless personality but there you have it.
Mag
You’re not an AC. As for cliques – it COULD be that they hate everyone else outside the clique in which case sod them or it COULD be that they are so insecure, small-minded, unimaginative, or limited that they can’t speak to people who are in a different line of work, a different race, a different class, older, younger, differently dressed, gay, straight, bisexual, democratic, republican, whatever.
It’s not about you.
However, if a person has a chip on their shoulder they can be a bit prickly, defensive, maybe not too warm so they’re hard to approach. Smile a lot – it really helps break the ice. But it IS giving me smile lines. Grrrr.
My psychiatrist said something to me which was an oxymoron “Try to be more spontaneous”. But – try. Sometimes I let my guard down in social gatherings, and people think I’m terrific fun. Then I go home and wonder if I said something stupid or if I was being fraudulent. Are they rejecting us? Or do we reject ourselves?
Magnolia, snap!
Father and fears are just the same. He has the lowest self esteem I’ve ever seen and it raises pity and frustration in me. I constantly try to challenge his negativity and pessimism and sometimes have little time for it. I think, I’m half your age and I’ve identified the problem and am working on it. You have just given in. I’m so happy he’s with a woman who loves him and not an abuser. It could easily be the case. If a wimpy man tries it on with me, I treat his advances like a kick in the teeth!
“It’s like wimpiness brings out the bitch in me; so I kind of assume it must be a kind of wimpiness that brings out the bitch/jerk in others toward me.”
Yes! I can be really short with them, I think for the same reasons. I was convinced for a long time, in the throes of AC land, that I had that dark cloud, which probably means I did. But still, when I look at the hard evidence, I talk to more people and a wider range of people than my colleagues, I spend a lot of time actually avoiding long conversations with people so I can get on with my work! And I network as part of my job. I am officially sociable and desirable to talk to.
When I was at my lowest self esteem, I know I really frustrated one of my friends. I cringe at what Yoghurt writes because I think I fell into the ‘constant self-justification’ trap and I kick myself at the times I’ve done this, wearing my heart on my sleeve too much, being self-absorbed, like I have nothing to offer anyone and they should make me feel better. I still fight it. Last time I saw this friend, I felt like she’d put me in a box, as though there is nothing I can do her change her opinion of me. She really supported me like no one else but at the same time, seems to have lost as much respect for me as I did. I don’t even know if this is just in my mind. Just felt like there was little respect for me last time we met, could also be because I respect myself a whole lot more.
I also feel like I’ve been relegated. Has anyone else experienced these confusing changes in friendships? Should I be eternally grateful for the help at the time I needed it, or annoyed that she won’t get with the new programme and let me grow? Sometimes I feel like she’s an AC. She has explained to me in great technical detail how weak/slow I am, how that’s my ‘type’. not sure if intended that way but feels like it.
Happy B,
I’m with you on the challenges of growth. There are friends whose patience I exhausted, and whom I would have to begin a whole new relationship with if I wanted to reestablish one. And since we wouldn’t be starting from scratch, but from a place where they already mistrust my ability to be a whole person in a relationship, I’d be working uphill. Best to let these r/ships go, I think.
Thanks for sharing a similar story re dads.
My cousin is visiting and she is verbally abusive to her son, but tries to keep it on the down low when she visits. She just got into a shouting match with her son (3 1/2), yelling at him to stop crying, and from up here in the office I heard her go get my father to yell at him. OMG: total flashback. My father, as I am typing this, is yelling at a three-year-old child to stop wailing, who was only wailing because his mom has been abusive his whole life and he knows no better. Deep breaths. But even now, my passive dad apparently thinks its all good (and probably makes him feel strong) to be enlisted by an ineffectual woman to use his stronger intimidation tactics on a child. Oh. My. God. I recognize the tone of voice from my childhood — okay, breathe — it’s such cowardly behaviour on his part. Such blatant bullying. Of a child. I understand that my cousin asked him to step in, but that’s only because who-shouts-loudest is all she knows of child-control. I would never ask my father to do this, and if he ever spoke to my child like that of his own accord, I would let him know that he risked not seeing his grandchild again.
Sorry, I digressed. I am not a child anymore, thank God.
happy b
Sorry for making you cringe (I cringed too, as I was writing it, if it’s any consolation!)
I’ve been on both sides of the sort of friendship that you describe and I know that, when I was on your friend’s side, I was definitely using the scenario (including with the EUM) as a way of going “hey, look at how sussed and sorted I am!” and bolstering up my own self-esteem by seeking out people who were worse off than I was (although in fairness, I didn’t realise that… I just thought that I was being nice). So I suspect that there’s some of that, and I also suspect that it wouldn’t suit her particularly well for you to grow out of the role that she’s got you in. She was probably getting something out of it too.
I’m incredibly lucky to have had some really really good friends who are still my friends, even at the other side of the Unplanned Pregnancy Black Hole. One of them in particular, I remember, I resented for a while because she would only let me talk about my problems for the shortest amount of time, deal with it breezily and sensibly and then move onto other (mundane, I thought) topics. She’s still my good friend now, though, and looking back I can appreciate that she supported me better than most other people at the time.
Her ‘tactic’, such as it’s been, has been to treat me as though I’m someone with perfectly good self-esteem, thereby saving herself the bother of getting dragged down and myself the bother of getting trapped in that role.
Other closer friends (I have two from very early childhood, for example) are now going “YESSSSS! You’ve FINALLY got it!” They know me right down to my boots, past all the self-esteem issues, they’ve given me space to sort it and now they’re just pleased that I have.
Sorry, more has just occurred to me…
My brother (who is lovely and I love) went through a phase of chronically LSE and clinical depression when he was in his mid-twenties. I sat patiently and talked him through it, and pointed out that he didn’t have to feel like that and how great he was etc etc. He took a leap, left his job and went travelling, now has super-dooper self-esteem and a lovely girlfriend. I’m just really happy for him… I don’t particularly feel that his LSE/depressed phrase was ‘him’ or ‘his type’ at all, it was just a sad bad thing that got better. Although maybe the medical label on it helped with that attitude.
So no, I don’t especially like the sound of this ‘friend’ of yours (insomuch as I know anything about anything – I might be unfairly maligning her)… aside from anything else I don’t think that self-esteem can be boiled down to a ‘type’ at all. It’s not genetic.
Magnolia, Yogurt
I think because we’ve been friends for a long time, and only in the most recent years have I been, to put it bluntly, annoying, it can survive. I don’t need her but want her in my life, she has a lot to offer including truth.
There is definitely the element of her bolstering her own self esteem. The reason I thought there was an AC-ness about her is because she has stringed along a very shy, nervous guy who will get nowhere with her. I do also see those cruel to be kind people, and she does it sometimes, changing the subject when it’s my problems. They were much more thoughtful and concerned than I realised, because they see the subtle changes in me and are interested.
About her telling me I’m ‘slow’, this is a case of being one to think before I speak, something she finds annoying. If I brought my self esteem into the discussion, would be able to say with conviction that it’s because I’m considerate, calm, articulate, a ‘type’ that I accept, one I admire in others. With my ‘I’m useless and weak’ hat on, this trait expands into being too deep, depressive, self absorbed etc., but these are the things we can manage.
Yogurt, what you wrote is harsh and cringe-inducing, but really important and it helps me a lot. They are things I thought about myself anyway, something we have to face up to. Truth is so important. It’s not enough to say ‘we deserve better’, life is harsh and doesn’t throw rewards at you just because you’ve had a hard time. It takes really unpacking things to improve it, instead of saying ‘I’m weak and dependent blah blah’ (think of those grim life’s lessons from parents), try and change the actions that reproduce these problems, whether that means shutting up and thinking/talking about something else, listening to people’s feedback and working on it or whatever.
Yeah, sorry – I was feeling angry at magnolia’s dad when I wrote it for being constantly draining and demanding that she make him feel better about things that aren’t her problem. Which I think is one way that LSE manifests.
BUT just because people ACT that way, it doesn’t mean that they ARE that way – they still have a rich well of uniqueness and marvellousness under the surface. The LSE isn’t a part of that, in fact if anything it hides it and prevents those characteristics from shining through.
Once I realised that, and I realised that, actually, I have a CHOICE about the way that I feel about myself (on the grounds that they’re just feelings and actually have no basis in the truth) then I found it much easier to deal with. Also, it helps to be able to look at some of the ‘evidence’ that I’m generally an annoying, awful person that I’ve accumulated throuhgout my life and to be able to say “well, no, that wasn’t about who *I* am, that was about the LSE getting in the way of who *I* am”.
The way that I see LSE now is like a dingy, dirty, generic cheap nylon veil covering a beautiful, uniquely hand-crafted stained-glass window. It prevents people from seeing how wonderful you are but it doesn’t mean that you’re not wonderful.
Yogurt, that’s a lovely image! I’ll remember that.
I LOVE where you have taken this thread, Yoghurt. From ages 20-26, I had debilitating OCD – for seven years, my mind repeated the same horrible thoughts all day long, all night long, and it was literally torture to live inside my brain.
Like almost all OCD sufferers, I would constantly seek reassurance from those around me that my thoughts were irrational. I lost so many friends over this period, because they couldn’t take it. At the time, I had no insight into why my friends weren’t supporting me, and I thought they were just incredibly cruel.
Then, a year ago, when I finally found my first non-EU boyfriend, and I was incredibly in love with him and happy, I suddenly became very conscious of how irritating my OCD reassurance seeking is. The more I felt comfortable around him and stopped feeling like I had to put my ‘best foot forward,’ the more I began to seek his reassurance, and the problem began to dominate our relationship, to the point where we were never talking about anything but my issues. And at first he was just incredibly sweet about it, and always said the sweetest things to make me feel better.
But over time, I must have worn him down, because one day, when I had a really bad hangover and my anxiety was spinning out of control, I started having a nervous breakdown, and was just completely panicking the whole day long. I kept meeting up with him to seek reassurance and then leaving to call a friend or my sister or my mom to seek reassurance and then coming back to his apartment to seek reassurance from him, etc. Finally, I called him to meet up with him to sleep at his apartment as we always did, and he broke up with me quickly over the phone, and I have barely heard from him since.
Few things have ever hurt me as deeply as how he broke up with me. Yet, ironically, few things have ever helped me so much. I fell into a panic, and realized if I wanted to win him back, I was going to have to get in control of my issues. I turned into my own advocate, figured out (for myself, no help from therapists) that I have OCD, and got in the amazingly effective Cognitive Behavioral Therapy, and for the first time in years, I don’t spend every day in mental pain.
I don’t know if “tough love” is always the answer – God knows I haven’t had the strength to implement it with my little brother whose life is now hanging on the…
Grace, it could indeed be about them. I asked the question because we all have folks who we don’t want to involve ourselves with, and sometimes I avoid people who seem less healthy: in that way it is about that person. But how the group of ADULTS handles others is also indicative of their character. There was a woman at one of my workplaces who was bitter, toxic, angry and a smoker whose clothes always stank and whose body odour (probably because she was so often stressed) was often strong.
She was actually quite a principled woman, who felt wronged in many ways, and let people know it. She was really difficult to be around. I didn’t want to hang out with her socially, but I did not agree with some of the women in the office actively making jokes about her when she wasn’t there. If this woman had built up her SE, I might have gotten closer to her eventually, once I grew to trust that she wasn’t going to dump a load of bitterness on me.
I can imagine that the only men who would get into a relationship with a woman in such condition would be ones who expect a lot of bitterness and are rescuers with issues of their own, or users who see her as having something they want. No healthy man would have gotten close.
She was bitter about having been rejected, she was rejected for her bitterness. This is a cycle I can deeply relate to. I think this is why the advice to look at “rejection” experiences from any perspective that can help us grow, learn, and love ourselves is super important. Staying with the example of my colleague, even if she had to think we were all cliquish bitches to start a program of self-love, I’d say good on her.
Another great post!!! I’ve been focusing on all the little ways he rejects me (doesn’t call or contact me consistently after almost 2 yrs, never asks me out, often rejects me sexually, always feels like he is trying to get away to do something else when we do hang out) and I internalize all of these as major rejections (what is it about me he doesn’t want to be around me?) I think so much of the pain of staying in limbo in a relationship with both intense good and bad- is that there is such a feeling of insurmountable loss that has to be dealt with. I don’t fear rejection as much now as hard as it is not to internalize why I’m not a good fit for someone else when they feel like a good fit for me. Every time I get close to ending it, I just fear the intense feeling of complete loss of all of the things I loved about the relationship (as shitty as things were at times). And I also think it’s hard from his side as well. He’s not a complete assclown. I think loss is hard for most people. In the end, I think that’s why we all stay in limbo in these kinds of relationships, we know things aren’t “right” that we could be treated better, but somehow when in the midst of it, the impending loss *feels like* we can never properly recover and the uncomfortable and even intensely painful status quo is preferable to this person no longer being in our lives at all. True NC makes you face all your past unresolved grief, losses (big &small) and demons. When I get to the point of ending it, which I do over and over again, the pain of the loss swells up and I become paralyzed and I get back to square one all over again.
Steff
This overwhelming feeling of loss is disproportionate to the situation. yes, your feelings are genuine but – I’m sceptical that it’s caused entirely by ending a relationship. There may be something underneath it and longstanding.
A friend of mine lost her twin sister. She figured it took about two years to grieve the loss. Yet it took me three years (possibly more) to get over the playa. Was my loss greater than hers? No, no, no. I had huge issues around previous relationships that I hadn’t processed properly – just skipped to the next crapola. And before that, a long time ago, the motherload of them all. My mother. Is it possible to get over being rejected by your mother? I’m here to say yes. If you stop trying to work it out by trying to persuade unlikely candidates to love you. Did I dance on the head of a pin trying to get my parents to love me?You bet. Look at meeeee!
I’m not saying that’s YOUR problem, but there could be more to this than you think.
I read a psalm with my mother at the weekend.
“Surely goodness and mercy shall follow me all the days of my life.” Yes, if God loves me the rest of em can go to hell in a handcart (not very Christian, but there you go).
In many instances i see that the AC has ended things but I had to end things with mine after one year (this month) of talking, trying waiting and being lied to constantly and words not matching actions and amongst other things turning things around constantly and pretty much not even being able to get anything constant from this man. At first when I just stopped answering texts and phone calls i felt empowered and elated that i had actually mustered up the courage to do even just that. That lasted for about a couple of days before I started to wish that he would look for me. He text me for mothers day wishing me a happy one and that was it. No, “why arent you talking to me”, no “lets talk” or “i miss you” or anything (well its only been one week) but still. I know i have to process through this by myself but it just hurts to think that why is he not trying to reach out to me? He was never a man to say “im sorry”. In fact his favorite words were “I didn’t do anything wrong”. No accountability for anything, taking no responsbility for his part in anything– it was always me “overeacting” or getting too emotional or making things a big deal. Finally he went away for a couple of days to FL with his little son. I didn’t hear from him the whole 5 days he was there. It wasn’t the first time and i just said to myself enough is enough. Of course the minute he returned it was as if he hadn’t left or something. Just a simple “Hi” text and im back. As if im now supposed to jump out of my seat to the beat of his drum because now he’s “back and available”. Well I just couldnt anymore. The audacity of some people. So I never responded. I just dissapeared. He tried calling once sent me two more texts and finally was like: “OK, im going to assume you are ok and just dont want to talk to me.. take care”. WOW…really? Thats all it takes huh? Well needless to say i am trying so hard not to miss him (there isnt really anything to miss anyway) but i think its more so wanting to know that you meant something to them, that you actually get some kind of reaction, some kind of emotion. WHY is this like a drug and does that urge one day really go away?I’m glad to know that im not alone but im curious to know why on earth i miss someone who really didnt do crap for me?I get nostalgic and relationship amnesia in just a matter of days and I fear that I may start…
Confused2
I’ve said it before but – you seem to like repetition (I say that with snark and love). THESE ARE JUST TEXTS. Get Nat’s Dreamer and Fantasy Relationship book. SOS!
Yes, my world too has turned on whether or not I get a flippin text. Big fat waste of time. Stop doing it, even if you have to throw your phone in the river and get a new one (and a new number).
“OK, im going to assume you are ok and just dont want to talk to me.. take care”. I should memorize this.
Confused,
You want him to miss you and try harder, and he wants to have the upper hand now that he noticed you’re not taking his calls. “Fine, you’re ignoring me? Have a nice life then”. He may expect you to panic and contact him now, or maybe he just wants to let you to know he doesn’t care. (If it wasn’t irking him he wouldn’t have bothered sending that text). It all seems like more of a power play and ego than anything else. Ideally, you shouldn’t go NC hoping for a response from him….it means you’re still too invested and not committed to doing what’s best for you. He probably will be in touch at some point, you need to get behind your decision….otherwise you’ll take his call, tell him about himself, and he’ll have the ego boost that he wanted and feel secure that he still has you as an option and will resume his crap treatment all over again. Keep on feeling empowered that you made a decision to walk away because you know that you deserve better–don’t let his contact or lack thereof take away from that.
Thank you so much for the feedbk. Ur right about this being a pwr struggle. In fact, it always felt as if it was more about CONTROL (him having it) but I must say I’m guilty of it as well. I know I didn’t do it this time to get a reaction (because there have been many other times that i did do it for that reason) This time I did it because it was just too much i was allowing and it was only getting worse. I did give him way to much power and he was certainly using it and abusing it. He used to be nicer to me and then it kept getting worse with him gving less and seeing (I think) what else he could get away with. I know i created a monster per se for allowing him to get away with things a year of bad behaviour as if it were ok. I’m sure he lost respect for me. In the end there was nothing more to say i just knew that ACTION had to take place. It doesnt make it any easier however. Intrinsically i had to do this for my soul and myself but i cant help but to still feel hurt by it all. Its always hard to do something because U HAVE To, not because U WANT to.
It’s also very hard to get through my head that they dont have any empathy. I keep thinking that somehow he will feel remorse. Whether U have good self esteem or not realizing that you meant nothing to someone is hard a pill to swallow. Or that you were just a “tool” they could use to get their own SELFISH needs met.
I know I had to do it. For that I give myself credit. But now i just want to stop thinking or caring about whether or not he feels or doesnt feel, or is thinking about me or not. I guess that will just take time. How do I let go of my own EGO and power struggle? What’s that about?
Why is it so important for him to have the upper hand and control vs. caring more about how I feel in this whole scenario? Why do i want the control instead? Perhaps because I feel/felt so out of control with my own emotions towards him? Is this all really just a game to him? I just feel confused never met a man like this before that literally “Seems” to not give a Sh*t and have no empathy or the ability to reflect and see it from the other person’s perspective. I am not a selfish person at all and so it boggles my mind how I could attract someone who is.
I know its best to let go its been a week trying to have patience with myself and take it one day at a time.
Thank you for listening and…
Confused2, whether or not he feels remorse just doesn’t matter. He probably does but can compartmentalise it or distract himself. You can’t win against an AC until you forget them, I think it leaves a little chip in their armour that some harem member will be willing to patch up and polish.
I had something similar – this man who has been my best friend, uncountable cuddles and sharing and caring, then when I’ve had it, I just get ‘fine, my door is open’. I get, some time later, a lame effort to interest me in his life, and I reply with a closed response, and that’s it.
There’s so much wondering, was he crying that evening? (probably), did he go to his rolodex and drag some fbg out of the dustbin for some twisted and messy mind effing? (probably), will he turn it around in his head so I become someone who was just too needy if anyone asks (probably). I just think the worst and then see it’s not so bad, no more! I’m free! So are you.
thank you everyone who commented , I am trying to eliminate drama in my life ironically so I don’t want to belabor my mistakes, I want to move past and was feeling stuck. I cut contact and still feel miserable. I am going for a walk when i get home. cant hurt!!
“Why open yourself up to self-rejection…”
Wow. This made me realize something that I think will change me forever. ALL rejection is really SELF-rejection. We take another person’s mere opinion of us, and use it to reject OURSELVES. If we refuse to do that, than someone’s choice to not be with us is nothing more than a choice, and someone’s opinion of us is nothing more than an opinion. We take rejection entirely out of the equation. There’s no more “Oh, I wasn’t good enough!” Instead it just becomes a matter of them having chosen a different path for their own personal reasons.
Why do we always have to make it about US not being good enough? Perhaps someone is choosing not to be with you because on some level THEY feel inferior to YOU! They may feel in order to be with you they would have to step up to the plate and become a better (more honest, more committed, less drunk, more responsible) person–and they do not feel willing or able to rise to that challenge, so they never let things progress far enough. Just a thought.
“They may feel in order to be with you they would have to step up to the plate and become a better (more honest, more committed, less drunk, more responsible) person–and they do not feel willing or able to rise to that challenge, so they never let things progress far enough.”
well said!
I can’t say “thank you” enough times, that wisdom of yours is unusual 🙂
Chasing highs – that’s what resonated for me. Chasing a fix, and then the slow let down and the awful empty feeling.
I dreamed last night – vividly – that I was a heroin addict, and I had a loaded needle and was just trying to find a nice quiet place so I could shoot up. I kept bumping into people who wanted to ‘talk’ (eg about themselves) and I just wanted to run away and get high. I finally found the vein, and then the dream ended because I just went under.
I’m struggling with boundary issues and an Unsuitable Man at present. He’s completely outside my normal range of dates in a good way (personality-wise), but he’s also not quite divorced.
-I find him attractive
-I am conflicted
-I should go NC
-but as we’re pretending we have an intellectual connection only, it’s proving difficult.
So I’ve been chasing highs.
My instinct is that he’s just marking time with me; that he knows he’s off limits, but just wants to see if I’ll chase him/make a federal case out of it/bust my boundaries. I’ve only seen him twice since we met, and that’s only a couple of weeks, but it seems like an eternity. Lots of texts/emails; he is also respectful in that he tells me when he is actually busy, and responds warmly when he isn’t.
But you know what? This has confirmed one thing at least for me – after three years on and off with an EUM who barely touched me and made me feel worthless with his constant rejections, it’s really wonderful to meet a man who actually seems to have a sex drive, be interested in women, and find me reasonably attractive. THAT’S the sticking point! It’s like ‘ah yes, I remember what this feels like – an actual red-blooded man’ …
The Low Self Esteem Truck appears to have stalled temporarily outside my house. I will try to flag down the NC tow-truck.
“it’s really wonderful to meet a man who actually seems to have a sex drive, be interested in women, and find me reasonably attractive.”
And who already has a wife, and has therefore shown you what kind of man he is–one who believes its okay to be married and give inappropriate attention to other women on the side. Red flag!!!
Flush him.
“it’s really wonderful to meet a man who actually seems to have a sex drive, be interested in women, and finds me reasonably attractive.”
Please add this to
“Polite, nice manners, buys dinner every now and then, texts, emails, IMs, FB, pays me some attention …”
IT’S THE LEAST THEY CAN DO!
Raise your standards everyone. No wonder these men think they’re God’s gift when all they have to do is offer the minimum, if that, and we’re singing their praises like they’re the second coming!
Hey Ethelreda, my ex EUM did this too:
“he is also respectful in that he tells me when he is actually busy, and responds warmly when he isn’t.”
Mine never tired of being good enough to let me know when he was “busy” and when he wasn’t “busy” he was also good enough to be very warm towards me. Lovely man. And hot blooded too. And when he wasn’t “respectfully busy” I often got dinner or a nice sandwich of my own choice (usually after the hot blooded part). Mostly though, he was busy, which was a shame but he tried his best not to let it get him down. But I got some emails. Oh, and texts. Made me feel special.
Ethelreda,
At Natalie would say, I’d slow my roll if I were in your shoes. “Not quite divorced” means his is married. One of the reasons he’s probably so busy is because he has a wife! The exMM always “warmly responded” when he ditched his wife. Just be careful, a red blooded married man with a sex drive is a giant red flag. Sounds like Natalie’s prior post regarding “Pretty Woman”. MM’s are always busy and rely on wonderful texts and emails in order to string the OW along. I was able to magic a loaf out of 100 plus texts daily, while he was with his wife. Yup, made me feel special.
Flag down the NC tow truck and get the driver’s seat. Otherwise, you’ll be another FBG for a dude looking to get laid, an ego stroke and a shoulder to lean on. Sorry. This guy is a flush.
Hi ladies –
Sorry to mislead; he has lived apart from his wife for 5 years. But apart from that, all advice duly noted. Thank you!
PS I met someone better on Friday, which has taken the edge off things nicely …
PPS Yes, I AM slowing my roll. Deep breathing.
Well done HSN! xAC here *forced* my hand into rejecting him also by his outrageous mind effery & ouright abusive behaviour (coward) BUT that’s not me being rejected by him, but the OTHER WAY AROUND! ie damned straight! We deserve *so much better*. We rejected AC’s who treated us bad? HELL YES & GOOD RIDDANCE! In my case, much to my humilation, I don’t even have ANY good memories of him in my life when he came bk after 17 yrs! It was mostly, ALL bad, except for my *feelings* for him which were based on our history from 20 yrs prior. Ugh. Yuk. Thank goodness it’s over & I found this site before losing all my friends who were sick of hearing about how badly he was treating me. Stick to yr NC. You will look bk one day & laugh knowing he was never even close to being good enough for you in the first place. Therein lies the lesson (for me) btw. No more ‘dating down’ to avoid rejection in future! Hugs!
I will quote first: “I can’t get over this because I feel so rejected – it’s like everything that I am was tied up in him.” You can’t get over this, not because you were rejected but because you invested your entire self, tied yourself to them and then drowned when the relationship ended. That’s codependency, not rejection, which you wouldn’t see it as if you had healthy boundaries and your own identity in the first place. Reclaim yourself – inside you is a great you to discover.”
I believe this codependency, as NML calls it, is actually pretty common. I am not sure if it is only me (probably not), but I was brought up in the sense that my romantic life ought to be tied to a man with which I fall so madly in love that, as I was told: “You will know you are in love when you will want to wash the guy’s dirty socks for him. By hand.” Well, I tried SO hard to get that feeling and I did pick up dirty socks and washed them (usually in a washer), and underwear etc., but I could not find the profound happiness in that. As well as in ironing shirts since it hurt my hands to start with. The strange thing is most of the women in my family were highly educated and had professional jobs, and they made sure I was educated, as well. Still I was expected to “serve” men, even younger cousins. No wonder my identity was shattered after my divorce, and I feel this sick, twisted gratitude when getting the (late) child support payment. Cognitively it is not difficult to analyze, but emotionally it is very, very difficult. I have been divorced for over two years.
That last post was very interesting Magnolia. I do suspect there’s something to your insight. Not saying that yr an AC to ppl who you perceive as having some sort of weakness, but I can identify with your Father’s role (in terms of never really being accepted by certain in groups – in my case flat out class snobbery combined with jelousy that I’m intelligent & highly creative & despite their rejection, have succeeded beyond expectation & quite a number of THEM i.e very petty).
I’ve spent over a decade trying to understand those who are so unkind (& typically extremely judgmental & also seeing themselves unjustifyably as superior). I notice that when I’m celebrated career-wise suddenly they treat me as part of the in group (It’s so blatent it’s sickening really). When I experience personal difficulties though, I’m back to being seen as ‘less than’. (Although I note they all have either parents, partners or husbands to help them through such times – which I don’t).
I don’t know what your journey in coming to know this part of yourself is but I”s encourage you to turn toward it. We really do miss a lot in life when we see ourselves as ‘better than’ others.
ps that didnt come out right. I dont mean that you see yrself as better than but was just trying to address yr post. I hope u don’t take offence.
Also, we are animals & even the human species very much sorts itself into less & better than groups. We all do it. The difference for me is having been automatically BORN into the former (by being raised as a Ward of the State) I recognise when ppl are simply at different stages of development (ie as I see myself in stages I’ve already completed). Perhaps b/c my completion of previous stages took such deliberate effort on my part I don’t take it for granted as some, born into more fortunate cicumstances, might. As for the rejection issue what did I do with a so called ‘friend’ of 25 standing this week, after yet another of her superior rants? I rejected her friendship (this time for good). Not sorry about that either. Ppl w their heads up their backsides & lack of empathy can take a hike as far as I’m concerned! (again, not saying that’s you at all)
Hi teachable,
I guess I was wondering if I’m an AC if I want to keep my distance. Maybe we need a name for what we feel when we keep our distance but also have no interest in feeling “superior”. Maybe we can feel dislike without feeling ‘superior.’ My father’s response to my attempts to tell them that I was being bullied: “You’re smarter than they are. They’re jealous.” One of his favorite sayings: “The price for being intelligent is living in a world of morons.”
Now that I have a different perspective on my father, I have lots of questions about why I was allowed to remain in a situation where I was being sexually bullied.
I think I’m still separating out the strands of having mixed up a healthy, self-protecting dislike from “feeling smarter than those idiots”. It made it very difficult to allow myself to dislike anyone who seemed intelligent, or who wasn’t addressing me with slurs. But it must be okay not to like people, and … even okay to not like qualities in people that you once had (or still have) yourself.
We must be able to learn to love people who have qualities we dislike but who are safe people, and to distance ourselves from those “likeable” people who in fact are exploitative. But as you say, I’m turning toward this. Again and again I ask myself the same questions but in new circumstances. Thanks for the thoughtful response.
Happy B – yes I too have exp the same ‘confusing change in a friendship’. In one, someone appraoched me to mentor them I’m too unwell though & said no for that reason but agreed to be friends. A few nights bk I sent her a text as I know she’d been ill saying I hope she was feeling better. It was a text nothing to do w me or my situation whatsoever. She replied ‘I can feel your pain & fear’ (meaning abt my financial / health / wrk probs & I thought huh?) I wrote bk & said actually although I am dealing w sum issues atm, I’m actually fine & doing well. I’ve been having problems with this person for a while (only a new friend of 12 mths now). I didnt think to say anything but wish I could. I’ve already confronted her a couple of times about other things though so will leave it for now. Yeah right. My sum total value in life & me & problems? Give me an effin break! ~fuming~
Teachable, can see why you’re fuming. It’s like being pigeonholed, being defined by your problems just as you say. Doesn’t help with recovery, these things drag you down again. Best to focus on those who are willing to cheer us along on the journey.
Wide Awake, you said-“Why do we always have to make it about US not being good enough? Perhaps someone is choosing not to be with you because on some level THEY feel inferior to YOU! They may feel in order to be with you they would have to step up to the plate and become a better (more honest, more committed, less drunk, more responsible) person–and they do not feel willing or able to rise to that challenge, so they never let things progress far enough. ”
Thank you so much for this, it is so spot on. I really needed to hear this. It’s exactly what I feel is happening with my current relationship. My partner has a load of issues that he needs to deal with in order to be with me in a more consistent and committed manner and in order to do that he would have to make drastic and uncomfortable changes in his life (quit addictions to weed and tobacco which make him inconsistent and unavailable). I have internalized so deeply his inability to step up as something to do with ME not being good enough to help him change and starting to beleive that my life is too complicated and a mess for anyone to get involved with or commit to fully- (I have a son with emotional and learning problems).
Meanwhile, I’m a reliable, conscientious, thoughtful person with many other good qualities and somehow he’s been able to over time with his inconsistent behavior and criticism spin things around on me (saying my son is the way he is because of my parenting for example) and erode my self esteem so that I started to question myself (why am I not good enough to get his consistent approval and attention or full emotional investment??) I can take myself apart pretty easily and don’t mind saying when I’ve contributed to a problem but with his subtle and not so subtle rejection of me most of our relationship I’ve really started to doubt and really wonder if there is something wrong with ME -the underlying feeling being that if I could just do things according to him, he’d give me consistently what he’s shown he can give at times (which is fits and starts of reliable, responsible, amazingly thoughtful and expressive, emotionally invested behavior when he wants to). It’s like it’s all been a mind trick-similar to “negging”-the flip side of his amazingly attentive actions and behavior (it’s never ALL bad) is that he shows this subtle disapproval of me at times or…
Hi Yorghurt&Reality
many thx for your replies, I was writing from my iphone and more than half od the text was cut :S Reality no it wasn’t a fantaisy relationship , we did see each other for real and date several times, there was a lot of romance between us and not only nurrished by online contact. For period of 5 months we did msn a lot and everyday several times a day, but this is because he is/was broke and had a pre-paid and very money to buy credit. But we would see each other as often as we could , 2twice month because we lived 90 km apart and it cost money to travel ( 30 euros a return for a day) I wouldnt sleep over because I couldn’t..not because he did not want to. And I didn t let im come to my house because I wanted to take it slow and make sure I could trust him before he would meet my daughter..this is not to find excuse and justify the unexcusable of course this was reality.
I have found the more I love and accept myself, the good, bad and ugly, the more accepting I am of others. Unless someone is SCREAMINGLY toxic, (which is much easier to see these days), there are few people that rub me the wrong way. Its easier to have a compassion/empathy for others because I recognize their hurts. We all want to be loved. I’ve just learned how to love myself as well in the process.
Hi Magnolia,
Firstly, I’m very sorry to hear what you went through as child. So many of us had less than ideal childhoods, & were subjected to outright abuse & neglect that it’s sometimes hard for me to imagine that anyone wasn’t subjected to this. Some weren’t though but are not one of thoses people.
Keeping our distance from ppl we choose to do that frm for sound reasons, ISN’T AC behaviour! That’s just sane & rightful self protection! Where a parent or parents have allowed a child to be exposed to abuse or neglect of ANY kind, IS just cause for keeping our distance as adults. I hope this helps a little.
I wish you well on your healing journey.
“Keeping our distance from ppl we choose to do that frm for sound reasons, ISN’T AC behaviour! That’s just sane & rightful self protection!”
Well said, teachable.
As someone who is only recently discovering what it means to have healthy boundaries, I’ve at times questioned myself, as Magnolia did herself. I mean, it just feels WEIRD sometimes to choose to opt out of unhealthy relationship dynamics, since those old patterns became “normal”. I’ve wondered at times if I’m being to harsh, too quick to refuse to engage…but it’s becoming more natural as time goes on. And this “new normal” is so much better.
Hi Happy B
I’m ok w saying goodbye to my former ‘friend’ of 25 yrs standing. I’ve noticed that she is most comfortable when surrounded by people who put her a pedastool. I though don’t need that from her. I also realise of course that it’s her loss. I’m too busy trying to get my life back on track here to be overly concerned about it. If she was ever real friend she would have attempted to talk our differences through. She didn’t though & instead of accepting that I might have a legitmate concern tried to blame the whole situation on me. I knew this was rubbish & rejected that line & her in the process. Because I’m unwell atm I’ve no doubt she will tell mutual friends I’ve lost the plot. I know that’s not the case though & this has been an ongoing issue w her spanning many years. So now it’s no longer an issue. And I am free with space in my life for a new friend who treats me as I deserve to come along. All good there. I’m not even angry anymore. I just feel sorry for her that she’s like that. 🙂
Hi Etheralda (great name btw!)
I have to admit I’m miles off sorting out this rejection business, esp since bar once, I’ve always done the rejecting. I don’t think that’s a cooincidence though, given the extreme rejection by my parents in my childhood.
I’m slowly reaching out to adopted father now with micro gestures, but so far no response. I’m waiting until my life is s little more ‘together’ before trying anything more substantial. I’m a bit confused about this though as he rejected me for a terrible reason (he planned to lie to a pre-existing child his new marriage & to raise the child – only 2yo at the time – thinking he was the biological father. With me experiencing the fallout of exactly that at the time, I hit the roof & threatened that if he didn’t tell her the truth, that when she was old enough, I would. Not my place to do of course, but I was only 13 yo @ at the time & had just discovered everyone had lied to me about him being my Father my whole life. In that sense my reaction was somewhat, to be expected).
With regards to my Mother things are much more complex. She has a serious mental illness. I’ve forgiven her over & over again but her illness makes her VERY abusive & manipulative. Currently we are not in contact. I grew tired of repeatedly being abused by her as an adult & decided I was no longer willing to tolerate this. Life has been a lot more peaceful since I decided to stay away. I feel sorry for but can’t have a seriously mentally ill woman calling the shots in my life. She’d be more than happy to see my life destroyed so long as she remained the centre of attention. I had to protect myself…
I’m going to leave all this this rejection stuff on the backburner for a while. Too busy dealing w the here & now atm.
Take care & not surprised to hear someone else has been through similar. I’m glad you could forgive your Mum. T 🙂
I agree Yoghurt. Sometimes in life we need people to love us back to health. For me, it’s been through people who could see the good in me, even @ my most difficult & trying times, that I learned how to love myself i.e to reject low SE & instead adopt a positive self image. If everone had recoiled from me when I needed it most (& certainly there have been some who did that) I never would have learned how to love myself. Most of the grunt work in that regard has been done through years of therapy (on & off) but we all need friends to just ‘be there’ including through times of feeling a lack of self worth. Marilyn Munroe once said (tp paraphrase) ‘if you can’t handle me at my worst, you sure as hell don’t deserve me at my best’. Although she was not the modt stable of ppl, I think there is a grain of truth in that. I’m not interested in so called ‘friends’ who can’t take the good w the bad. I work my butt off to try to take responsibility for myself & to grow & if ppl back off for whatever reasons (ie b/c I’m dealing w depression for example that’s fine. I just hope they don’t expect ME to ‘be there’ for them when life throws them an unexpected curveball down the track 😉
Teachable,
Would it be possible to have your email address? So much of Ants and your advice has helped me so much.
Teachable,
Would it be possible to have your email address? So much of Nat’s and your advice has helped me so much.
I have read and agree with Natalie’s entire ethos about relationships and I genuinely believe that she should write a big fat book about it all and that a copy should be issued to each girl on her 14th birthday.
However, I have a problem with applying Natalie’s advice to myself and I simply cannot believe that I am the only woman who feels this way.
You see, when you are young and beautiful and attractive, you are in a position to instantly reject each and every man or assclown who shows you Red Flags or Treats you as an Option or Uses You for Sex or messes you around or is EU. (i.e. all the things Natalie write about.) Basically, there are SO many fish in the sea if you are young, slim, attractive that you can afford to reject one after another after another, and set very high standards against which to choose a man.
And yes, when I was young I was in that position. Men were like the proverbial London bus – always another one along in a minute! I could bat them away like flies until someone Worthy of Me appeared, as he always did.
But if you do not have much going for you looks-wise, body-wise, age-wise and lifestyle-wise, then this is not the case. Add to that pride and a feminist ideology, and you are up the creek without a paddle. But just because I am a fat, plain, impoverished, middle aged feminist, does not mean that I need love any less than anyone else on this earth. I crave it constantly and am withering without it.
If I want to be involved with men romantically, then I have no choice but to put up with the AC, EUM etc and ignore a lot of Red Flags. There just aren’t that many men of high calibre about, and those that exist and are looking to date don’t want someone like me. They have their choice of woman, and they don’t choose me. I guess they know their worth, and they know they can get someone young, slim and pretty. Or, if not young, then slim and pretty, and amenable, non-challenging etc.
Now, I know that some people will say, better to have no man at all than put up with AC/EUM etc. Well maybe that is true if you are surrounded with friends and family and have a fulfilling career and a full life. But I have nobody, just a few acquaintances and a few distant relations that I never see, and I have no glittering career. I’m a fairly quiet, private person. But I feel really lonely and needy and desperately want to love and be loved. And yet not one person on this earth loves me.
Men place SO much importance on a woman’s looks these days and women are competing with each other for the attention of the few men worth having. Those of us who are plain Janes don’t get a look in. And please, don’t tell me to join in the competition by attempting to mould myself into being what men want.
I am coming up to 60 in a few years, and have been trying for fifteen years to get myself a man since splitting with my last LT cohabiting partner. In real life and also, since 2000, on internet dating. I so get some interest from men on dating sites, maybe 5 new contacts a day, but they all stop contacting me after we’ve exchanged one to five messages. Most reject me immediately after we have swapped photos, which points to my appearance as the reason they don’t want me. Others make it clear within a message or two that they are just looking for casual sex. I’ve been on plenty of dates (with those who didn’t reject me having seen my photos) but again most turned out to be looking for instant sex and in most cases their comments made it clear that they assumed that, because I am old, fat and unattractive, that I would be desperate enough to give it to them.
A few years back I started having occasional sex-only meetings with one of them and we now do this weekly. I know he is AC and EUM and only wants me for sex and will never love me, but if I stop seeing him then I will have absolutely no physical contact with anyone at all from one year to the next, and that is even worse. I would feel a lot lonelier if I didn’t have sex with him.
So, fifteen years of searching has got me nowhere. I am lonely, I am fed up and I am getting increasingly miserable, resentful, lonely and pessimistic as the years go by. Just getting a man — any man — to show any interest in me is hard enough, and so when a man DOES show a bit of interest, I have to ignore all the Red Flags, and accept assclowns and EUM, because I simply cannot “afford” to reject him, because there won’t be another one along in a minute.
bundley –
I think that Nat calls this the ‘scarcity myth’ – the idea that there’s no-one better, so we should eat up all that crap with a big smile on our faces and call ourselves lucky. I don’t know exactly what the man situation is where you are, but I can tell you that I’m 30 and I sometimes feel exactly – EXACTLY – the same way. Didn’t you know that all the good, attractive men get married off by their mid-twenties and the only ones that are left by the time you hit thirty are interested in nubile 21-year-olds?
Mind you, if I were you and I was reading that I’d think “Pfft, thirty??! What does she know?” (I actually would as well) so let’s turn it on its head and work from the principle that there ARE indeed no good men for you, out of the 7 billion or so people on the planet.
You say that you’re increasingly lonely, miserable, resentful and pessimistic – that is very sad and an awful way to have to live your life and I’m really sorry that you feel like. (hugs, by the way – in the interests of brevity and the w/c I’m aware that I probably sound a bit brusque but I do feel very sad for you).
But is it purely because you haven’t got a partner? You’ve also said that you haven’t got many friends and you don’t find your work fulfilling… if we accept that there are absolutely no men whatsoever for you, wouldn’t it make sense to work on those areas of your life rather than throwing away perfectly good time, energy and self-esteem on a plonker?
There is no scientific evidence whatsoever that the human body shrivels up and implodes without sexual contact but there IS plenty of evidence to say that loneliness is bad for you. So are there any things that you could be doing to alleviate that loneliness and to get honest, warm, friendly, caring interaction outside of a relationship? I can tell you this – I’m prepared to pretend that I believe your ‘No Men For Me’ theory (and it is pretending, cos I don’t) but I’m NOT prepared to even pretend to believe that you’re somehow ‘not good enough’ to have friends.
Long story short – if you hang around with people who make you feel awful, or in situations that make you feel awful then you’re going to feel awful. I’d say that your first step in this situation would be to forget relationships for the time being and to go out and find some actual factual honest…
Sorry, brevity fail…
warm genuine human being who can remind you of what it feels like to be ‘good enough’. Not for a relationship and not for a no-strings-attached sex, but to spend time with, talk to and enjoy your life with. Seek out nice people and build a life for yourself that isn’t incredibly painful and dull when it doesn’t have a man in it. Don’t get into situations that make you feel as though you’re too old/fat/ugly/feminist to deserve anything and do things that remind you of how great and lovely you are (because in a relationship or out of it, you’re the only person who has to spend twenty-four hours a day with you).
That way, when a nice, age-appropriate, available, GOOD man does come along, he’ll be attracted to a happy and fulfilled woman who loves her life – your appearance, bank balance or feminism won’t matter a whit.
That was a wonderful response, yoghurt. I think the suggestions you offer are applicable to all of us here, no matter what age.
I had an unexpected thing happen to me in recent weeks that ties into what you wrote. After feeling very interested in dating for a number of months, all of a sudden, *poof*, my libido fell off a cliff. This left me feeling much less driven to date and mate. Instead, it’s left me looking around at the rest of my life, and trying to think of what non-romantic pursuits I want to add into the mix to bump up my quality of life. I’m telling you, taking guys out of the picture for a while has freed up a lot of time and energy; but it also made me realize how many areas of my life I’d been neglecting, thinking that finding a mate was more important.
I guess that’s a bit tangential to what you wrote, but I was musing recently on the importance of having a well-rounded life outside of a partnership. Stating the obvious, I know, but I’ve welcomed the (probably temporary) lull in boy-crazy thoughts.
(Where was I going again with this post? Bah! Not enough coffee .)
Thanks teacosy, I think that just made my day 🙂
It’s been…*thinks*… over a year and a half since I last got laid and don’t get me wrong, I miss it. I’d be sad if someone told me that I’d never have sex again but I’m happier now in myself than I ever was in a sexual relationship. In fact, the last period of regular sex that I had was the loneliest of my life. I hated myself during it and for a long time afterwards.
I think that sex is one of those things that you want more if you’re actually having it. Also that NSA sex is the worst cure for loneliness that I can think of, because all that oxytocin ratchets up your desire and need for intimacy to a much much higher level and then doesn’t deliver.
The idea that anyone can’t survive without sex is, imo, a maleism that’s been adopted across the board in the interests of gender equality but is still rubbish. Surviving without care, respect and honesty is much much harder and worse for you.
“I was musing recently on the importance of having a well-rounded life outside of a partnership”
Yeah, I’ve been thinking on that one too recently.
I’ve also talked about it with various friends and family, and one of the things that’s been pointed out to me is that people (me included) invariably approach relationships in terms of: “what will this relationship give to me and bring into my life?”
Whereas really, you should be just as (if not more so) concerned with “what will I be bringing to someone else’s life if they choose to have a relationship with me?”
So far I don’t know the answer, other than a fair few cobwebs, a sympathetic listening ear and possibly bruschetta for tea, but it puts me off seeking a relationship until I DO know.
Hi Bundly,
You seem to be placing a lot of value on looks and less value on characteristics that really matter. Are you judging the men who you interact with on line by their looks too? The idea that there are a few decent men who are getting their pick of young attractive women just doesn’t make sense to me. There are an equal number of men and women in this world therefore their must be all sorts of men out there who would like a healthy relationship with someone who shares their values. I wonder if you are not ‘seeing’ them and are being attracted to the EU ones?
From what you say you seem to be struggling with your self esteem which isn’t conducive to a healthy relationship. And I suspect sex man isn’t doing too much for your self esteem either. I think it might be worth you trying to shift your perspective a little on what you are looking for. I am not naive enough to try and convince you that it isn’t easier to attract men in greater quantities if you are traditionally what is held up to be attractive. But looks play no part in all the other important elements of a great relationship. They really don’t. There are loads of good looking women who are struggling with poor relationships or can’t find a relationship and loads of ‘plain’ women in happy, healthy mutually fulfilling relationships so I think you are reinforcing negative views about yourself that don’t hold up to scrutiny. The big difference is self esteem and self love. Focus on the great things about you, being a feisty feminist is pretty great and loads of decent blokes would love someone with those principles and values. Don’t settle for poor treatment. You really don’t have to choose that. You do have to choose to be your own greatest fan though. I hope this doesn’t come across too preachy..
Bundly
It goes against received wisdom but if you have no friends and are lonely, dating is the last thing you should do, not the first.
A man can’t fix that. Even a good man.
We shouldn’t be rejecting men just because we know another one will come along in a minute. We do it because they are hurting us. Whether another comes along doesn’t have a bearing on the decision. I know it’s fuzzier than that, but that’s the principle.
You won’t meet a good guy if you’re with an EUM because available people do not date unavailable people. If you’re involved with someone you’re unavailable to anyone new.
I have it in my mind that maybe I won’t meet anyone, it feels kinda likely. Even so I’m happier than I ever was in my relationships.
Get happy first – make friends, do things you enjoy, take care of yourself. It won’t hurt to get a makeover, a haircut (whatever your age). If you meet him, you meet him, if you don’t you don’t but, ironically, being happy on your own is when you’re most likely to meet a good guy.
I’m 47 and I’m not going to be so naive as to say that it’s as easy to meet a man now as it was when I was 25. It’s not to do with attractiveness, in some ways I’m more attractive, it’s the numbers game . But my best shot ISN’T to keep telling myself it’s all stacked against me and then hook up with men who disrespect me. That’s not going to get me anything that I want. It would only make me feel lonely and desperate. And, right now, I don’t feel those things and I’ve been single for over six years, lost count actually.
At church I enjoy cuddling the babies, and the old ladies who, I know, don’t get touched either. It’s not the same as sex (that would be weird) but it takes the edge off.
Anyway, just wanted you to know you’re not the only one.
Bundly,
Just also wanted to let you know you aren’t the only one. In addition to all the great feedback from the others, may I suggest a 15 minute brisk walk a couple times a week. The fresh air, sunshine, movement, is being alive. Of course, a 15 minute brisk walk isn’t going to solve the underlying issues but it may help to start to address them. I identified with your comment because I was always so focused on a “him”. It’s really weird to focus on me. I’m getting better at it but it takes a concerted, conscious effort. It’s been baby steps for me. I set a goal of doing one good thing for me each week. At first, I didn’t do anything but think about it. Finally, I started doing it. It’s actually become a wacky habit. What’s one good thing you could do for you this week?
PS. Just turned 53 last week and I’m looking forward to seeing 60!
Oh my goodness! A bit overwhelmed with all the replies… you have all said so much and I feel I want to comment on everything.. but I can’t or Nat’s website might become overloaded and explode! So I suppose I should just say THANK YOU to those ladies who care enough about me to sit down and type these well-thought-out replies. There are a few comments made which have rankled on me because some of my comments have been misinterpreted, but I don’t want to start an argument or come across as ungrateful so maybe I should not mention them. I have no doubt that in this wide world there is someone for me, but I live in a small town and can’t afford a car, so in reality my options are limited to men who live within a few miles, as a pen-friend type of relationship won’t give me what I need. I honestly do not think that scarcity in my particular situation is a myth but reality.
I honestly think I have been messed up by having a very poor childhood, then getting into my first long term relationship at age 12 to 15, and from then on, as each man left my life the next one appeared and they were nose to tail until I was in my forties. Having someone who loves me, is close to me physically and mentally and emotionally, has been my whole life. I don’t know any other way to live and that is why I feel so depressed, lonely, and, yes, even scared.
As for forgetting men and trying to find platonic pals, well, above all else, I crave the physical. And I don’t mean (just) a sausage in my doughnut but being held, being kissed, the human warmth and comfort of two naked bodies wrapped around each other all night, I love walking hand in hand, being hugged and cuddled. Not sure if my female friends will oblige 😉
How do I stop myself from craving human touch? I honestly feel like I am withering without it. When my sex buddy puts his arms around me (he’s as affectionate as a man in love, BTW) I feel sooo comforted, so happy, so relieved, it seems to take away all the loneliness and the stress. Then he leaves and it all comes back again, till the following week when we meet for sex again. (We have tried spending non-sex time together but we are completely incompatible as people.)
I’m finding it very difficult, since moving to this small town, to find likeminded female friends, either. I HAD actually built up a circle of eight (over 20 years), but six of them have either died or moved away, and so I now only have two female mates and I am not that compatible with either of them. I find that new women I meet are not “emotionally available” to me because their loyalties, their heart and all of their time is devoted to their male partners and (more often) their grandchildren – who are their main topic of conversation, which is boring as hell. (I am childless.)
Lastly, I know that people are correct when they say I need to find some self esteem, self-reliance and that sort of thing, and that way I won’t care if I have a man, or friends, or not. But I have no idea where to find such things. How do you “give” yourself self esteem?
I will re-read your replies once again. Thank you.
PS Just wanted to say, when I was young, I always had a career, absorbing interests AND close, important female friends as well as being in a LTR with my chosen man. But to me, the LTR is like my “rock”, even my “springboard”. Only once that is in place can I succeed in the other parts of my life. I KNOW this is wrong and even dangerous way to live, but it’s been my pattern. (I am approaching 60, partly disabled and unemployed in a town of exceedingly high unemployment where even young, fit grads can’t find a job.)
I’m terrified of going through any of my past experiences again, I cannot bring myself to date again and its going on 6 years now since I had a real date.. I keep going through in my mind all of my past rejections, I am so totally convinced there will always be “Something” some reason I cannot be loved, I am convinced there are only a few possible outcomes for me now because of my past… and most of that is some other woman they loved and wanted more than me.
I’m totally convinced these other woman have something magical that i do not have – and I have had to be so strong that i have to watch all the men I started to love walk away with someone else and wish them well, and all couples on earth wish them well, and know that I am just doomed to be alone forever like it is my fate.
I do not think I ever had a chance in life, I never had making love while I was in love and with trust, ( They always wreck it somehow before that can happen. )
And I know I am not being ” logical” from what it supposed to really be like and that I should be married it’s my nature, yet from all the rejection I really somehow got convinced there is something about me, that unlovable. I know it’s negative, but that is really what I think so often – and i was recently hurt a lot, waited for years for someone I thought was single, or wanted to believe was – but again belonged to another.
How can I NOT feel like there is something wrong with me now?? I lost track after so many rejections, I really do not know the count anymore.
And even though none of them I would want today – it still made me think there must something about me men cannot love because no matter what i do they never end up loving me!!!!
And to have to keep doing this struggle for my self esteem, no-matter how many years I work to build it up they always have the power to hurt me and destroy me all over again. ( how I really feel inside. )
Hi Brenda,
I’m sorry to hear you’re feeling so scared that you won’t have the experiences you want. I have felt as you do, as have most of us here. I’d suggest reading through as many of the posts archived here at BR to orient yourself: I hear a lot of confusion in your post and it seems that you could use a sense of where to start and what to do to move to a place of more confidence and more happiness in life.
You might read what other readers wrote to Bundly, above: when you’re feeling like there’s no one in your life, and something’s wrong with you that makes you somehow undateable, THAT’s the first thing to address.
It’s not easy to move from fear to a genuine, stable confidence the first time but once you’ve done it, you’ll never forget how and you’ll always know you can find your way back to a good place. There are lots of women here on that journey; hope you’ll stick with us.
Thank you so much for your support and words Magnolia,
Yes I swing back and forth,” have days where I feel I found my strengths and the person should be, and can be.. ” I know she is in there, and I really need to stop waiting for some guy to not be a jerk and be safe with before bringing her out I guess, ” I think that is what I was waiting for when I was waiting for them, to be OK to come out of the sh*tty closet, and into the Queens closet”, lol!
You sound the way I used to sound. be careful and take a look at your beliefs. what I am getting from your story is that you believe that men have the power to hurt you. You believe that you are unlovable. you believe that other women have some magic something that you do not. be careful that you do not put yourself into situations where you create those beliefs as reality. There have been posts on this site about self- fulfilling prophecy, and when I finally understood what that meant, I was able to understand how my faulty beliefs had led me to bad choices. I created a bad reality because of my beliefs. I spent too much time with guys even though I saw the signs early on. I picked guys that I knew would prove to me that I was “unloveable.’ But what I was really doing was picking guys WHO CANNOT LOVE. that way, they would validate my beliefs– my faulty beliefs. I hope it is making sense. Reprogramming your beliefs can be tough. it is like creating new habits. It takes repetition and commitment. You need to create a paradigm shift. What caused you to believe what you believe? did you see relationships like that when you were young? were you told things? did you take one rejection the wrong way?
My suggestion to you would be to start reprogramming your beliefs. No one has the power over your self-esteem– you have that power. Forget about men for a while. become love. fall in love with yourself. tell yourself everyday that you are special and lovable. When that voice says, “Oh who am i kidding, i suck,” you will know that right there is the faulty belief. So ask where that came from and tell it to get lost. start replacing the old beliefs with new ones. Look around, you will notice that other women really aren’t some magical beings. they have quirks and pimples and cellulite and bad jobs and crazy families and no talents and aren’t very smart and get bloated, etc. just like the rest of us. but they dont let that become what they are. we get what we are, not what we ‘want.” you want to love and be loved, so BE love. Do a gratitude journal, do daily affirmations, listen to positive thinking cd’s do some meditation, maybe change your diet or start an exercise program, pick up a hobby or take a class, take 5minutes a day to love yourself and speak nicely to yourself.
Well another breakup.How many times has he came and gone in the past three years.And why did I ever go back,each time to realize he really doesn’t care for me!Now I’m going through it again,after him just telling me two wks ago he loved me and wanted a relationship,and now he says he wants nothing with me!i now face even lower issues with self esteem and trust.Mental abuse is far worse than actually being hit.I guess I can’t blame him,As I’m the person that Went back every time!How do I move on when I feel this way?
“…because I am old, fat and unattractive, that I would be desperate enough to give it to them.” That’s your negative self-talk tapes. I know negative self-talk. I’m old, skinny, and attractive a bit, for folks that find short, old, skinny women attractive!
Hi Runnergirl
I know you are only kidding about how you describe yourself so I must let you know, your comment made me snort!
This post has me thinking…. I just realized that although I’ve been working on validating myself there is something that I haven’t done; I haven’t gone back and figured out when I was invalidated, and what I came to believe about myself because of it. I have been workng hard on self-love and self-care, etc…from a the thought of…: I want to focus on my issuess, but, I haven’t gone back and validated the abuse; that what they did to me was wrong; that it wasn’t my fault; and that I was in fact valuable and worthy. I’m connecting some major dots, and I can’t seem to get
a scene in the movie “Good Will Hunting” out of my mind. You know the part where Robin Williams’ character keeps telling Matt Damons’
character that it wasn’t his fault…so weird because one of my best friends is always teasing me with the same line…it went right over my head. What a powerful validation for me to…. Hmmmmm……
So true! When I started to figure out why I had faulty beliefs about myself, I was able to change them… that is how the self-love/esteem techniques stick and work. I listened to a cd from a guy– Hans King–and he talked about how you have to realize that you are enough and you are never alone and you are love. If, as a child, you are told you are worthless, you have to realize that that was the other person’s words and not you. It can take time to reprogram the brain, but it can be done.
Bundly, watch what this inspiring lady has to say about turning 60 and more: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=CQEIBtd18_M
When I awakened this morning, I asked me to apologize to me for all of the self-rejection, and me was glad to hear it; even though, me knew deep in her heart that it wasn’t her fault, but me decided that me needed an apology for me to heal, and now me is really sad, but me is glad she is taking responsibility for it, so me can keep moving forward with her healing, and me is starting to feel so validated, and so me is thinking she will apologize again, and…, and me is thinking that now she might be able to move toward forgiveness, eventually, in steps and time… “let go and claim her identity.”
… , and I find myself apologizing for everything that happened to me when I was a child, an apology that was never given to me, but is now given to me me from me, and truly touches my heart, and although I cry, I am–definitely–leaving Sugarland.
Thank you, Natalie
Great Blog! You are correct, no one is EVER the only person to see the ugly side of someone. Character traits are visible every day and shown to many people. Have a potential partner? Watch them when they don’t know you are…they are walking past someone who has dropped something, do they stop and assist or just keep walking. Or, you are visibly upset about something that’s not about them…do they actually LISTEN to you or continue with what they are doing? Character is very important for Love-Long Lasting Relationship
I have been reading this site for awhile now and wow what a wake up call.
I am so glad that I am not the only one out there that struggles with self love and esteem issues. I have for the past year trying to figure out why my relationship with a real assclown ended. Intellctually I know why, but emotionally I still get that icky feeling in the pit of my stomach that I am just not loveable. I made so many mistakes in this past deal of what I thought was a relationship and am so glad that I am able to own what I did for it to end, but to be utlimatly grateful that it did end. It was toxic for me.
Blimey was this blog entry ever timely – thank you Natalie.
To explain – I’ve been seeing a guy for the past three months. He’s in the final throes of his divorce, has two children and is struggling to sell his marital house. He splits his time between his parents place and his former home as he cannot find a new place to live until the divorce goes through.
I know, not an ideal situation. When we first met we had a long conversation about whether it was sensible to ‘date’, particularly as we knew there was no chance of a proper relationship until after his divorce. On several occasions I asked that question as I didn’t want to add to the stress of his situation by having him worry about spending time with me, particularly as he couldn’t tell his family that he was ‘dating’ for fear of their disapproval given that he is technically still married. But right from the beginning we’ve both gone into it with our eyes open, knowing we had to take it very, very slowly and get to know one another as friends.
It’s been a ball and I’ve loved every minute of spending time with him up until these past ten days when everything that could have gone wrong went wrong – he’s had rows with his parents, his ex-mother-in-law, his ex-wife, his solicitor – you name it. His children have been unwell and he’s been told there’s a possibility he could lose his job.
I’ve done my best to be sympathetic but am completely helpless as I cannot do anything to make things better for him other than being a shoulder to cry on. He’s a disorganised person anyway but with all the chaos around him things have really been building up and he’s been letting people down left, right and centre. It’s been a really upsetting and stressful time all round culminating in the two of us having a disagreement last night and following that a throughly miserable evening out.
This morning before work we met for coffee and apologised to one another for last night. We had a conversation about all of the recent stresses and strains. Then he said: “I think we should try this again in two or three months when I’m divorced, when I have somewhere to live and the childcare arrangements are sorted out and not so ad hoc. I’m not making you happy at the moment and it hurts me because I care about you so much. It’s just not going to work at the moment”.
Boy was that hard to hear, I…
Red Dragon
Are they still married? It’s not over til it’s over.
If he’s divorced, when is he planning to introduce you to his children and tell his wife? cos they’re gonna put two and two together and realise you met each other before the divorce. They won’t like it. Then cue round two (or three or four) of your problems.
Your red flags were there in the beginning:
He’s married (“technically” married is still married)
“we knew there was no chance of a proper relationship until after his divorce.” So why go there?
“I didn’t want to add to the stress of his situation by having him worry about spending time with me” Classic OW line
“knowing we had to take it very, very slowly and get to know one another as friends.” No, you were both in denial that you were embarking on an affair
“completely helpless as I cannot do anything to make things better for him other than being a shoulder to cry on. ” Hello Florence.
I would take him up on his offer and go for the three month break, with a very definite view to ending it if this hasn’t turned around 180. Or finish it now.
And get Nat’s Dreamer book. You didn’t go into this with your eyes wide open, you were dreaming. Married. A house to sell. Two children. On what planet does that turn out well?
“It’s been a ball and I’ve loved every minute of spending time with him up until … ” – up until REALITY. Wake up. You’re having an affair with a married man and you have all the attendant drama.
And even if he wasn’t married, I am not liking the way he calls all the shots and you just go along with it. I don’t see that changing – how it begins is how it continues (apart from getting worses).
Red Dragon….
my friend is dating a man who is separated and supposedly going to divorce, but he brings up how it is hard on the kids and on him financially, etc. When they met, she was so intent on getting a boyfriend by the summer. He was the only guy online that interested her or responded to her. I told her to be careful because maybe he interests her because he is not really available for a relationship. He is available to date, but to grow a relationship that could lead to building a life together? not so much. But she was drawn to him in a way she has never been drawn to a man. She also had to deal with issues like you mentioned and is introduced as his “friend.” I told her how I could never have dated him and probably never would have gone on that first date if his profile said “separated.” (tho his profile said, “single,” which I find odd). I know clearly now that I want an available man to build a relationship with me. So I have finally gotten to the point where I can say no to the unavailables, the abusers, the assclowns, the players. But my friend is where I used to be– wanting a relationship, but going out with the unavailables anyway.
One day I asked if she was getting what she wants out of it (after I asked about when the divorce was ever going to happen). She said she is. She said she is not sure if she even wants to get married. her parents had a bad marriage, so she isn’t sure if she wants what they had. She sometimes wonders if she would like a man in the same house as her everyday (tho when the more unavailable the guy is, the more she thinks she does). She told me she thinks he should date around (when i asked if their profiles have come off the dating site yet and after she told me he tested the waters with another woman he was flirting online with). So in my opinion, she is not too clear on what she wants, so this guy is perfect for her and she is perfect for him.
If you really want a relationship that can go somewhere with someone, then not seeing him until that time is right is the right thing to do. You cannot, however, wait around for that or attempt to help it happen. You have to go on with your life and focus on you and what you want and what you can learn from this. If you really want a relationship, you will tell a married man to call you when he is single and go on with your life…
I really enjoy the messages in this blog. I recently came to an end of a relationship. It was strange. 2 months of talk, e-mail, text and a live weekend – quickly afterwards, a family member came, and some other unknown events lead to a strong feeling of disconnect and odd text. I was angry and let him know. After a long weekend – I had to force him to talk with me. some smoke screens; ” you’re impatient” – yes, sometimes I am. Ultimetly, I believe he told me a lie – but decided we should go forward (e-mails the previous week assured me we had potential).
I think I have rejected me more than he has. I accepted blame and guilt for sounding too needy or insecure – when what I wanted was some communication.
I’m moving out of my rejection and into a place that I need…
This blog is a good framework to break the misery we sometimes put ourselves through.