There are times in life when I’ve given myself a hard time for how I reacted to something in the moment. Note that I, like many others, have given me a far harder time for having feelings and opinions than I ever have for underreacting to boundary busting behaviour!
Now of course, if I had my time over again, there’s a few things I’d do differently in the moment, but to be fair, reactions, especially 1) belated 2) cumulative, and 3) helpful ones, would not be high on my list.
Underreacting has kept me in shady situations long past their sell-by-date. It’s also triggered analysis paralysis.
My version of overreacting, which contextually, it may not have been or it certainly wasn’t as bad as I’d portrayed, has often triggered the alarm bell and reminded me to steer clear of that person or situation.
When I have responded disproportionately, yes it’s given me a cringe and in darker times, a lot of shame, but overcoming this involved self-compassion through seeing these responses for what they were – feedback to understand and evolve me.
The single most useful thing about a reaction is that it provides you with clues as to your inner state, your thought process, and the overall situation.
Readers often say to me, “I feel so embarrassed/bad/ashamed/foolish/stupid/OTT etc., for how I reacted”. It’s wanting to control the uncontrollable, driven by the desire to be in control of that person’s perception of you. On some level, especially if you’re typically a pleaser, you’ve been suppressing and repressing your needs, desires, expectations, feelings, and opinions in an effort to influence and control their feelings and behaviour.
If I don’t react, I won’t wipe out all chances for them to to choose me if they decide that they want to change.
Good Girls/Guys don’t get angry.
Newsflash: How you reacted is how you reacted. It’s done.
We are human. We love, we want to be loved, we don’t always make the best of choices and yes we do make mistakes, plus to top that all off, we’re keen for acceptance and scared of rejection both real and imagined.
This doesn’t mean that we cannot learn from our reactions and use the insights from the feedback of these experiences to support ourselves to evolve beyond being in a pattern of reacting this way, plus it doesn’t absolve us from being conscientious but, how we reacted in the moment is how we reacted. Sure, sometimes that reaction is part of a pattern but sometimes our reaction to something in the moment doesn’t reflect who we are in the main. If we choose to focus purely on the reaction instead of engaging in the self-care that involves understanding what was behind the reaction, we miss the positive lesson we stand to gain. We also cannot move on from it and change our subsequent responses.
Genuine remorse and/or recognition of where our responses to something were less than what truly reflects us, is what separates us from those who habitually use and abuse and pull the crocodile tears to express faux remorse as a means of manipulation to pave the way to doing the same again or worse.
We focus on our reaction because we’re deceiving ourselves. We become convinced that if we had played it [our reaction] down, we could have controlled the outcome or even their subsequent reaction. We think, I reacted that way so now they see me as ____.
Many moons ago, I finally started dating the subject of a lengthy flirtation. It was one of those situations that so many of us experience with a Mr (or Miss) Unavailable, where in retrospect, you realise that the fact that things were so ambiguous and drawn out, was a clue that they weren’t available or indeed, single, while engaging you. It’s easy to rationalise that they’re so crazy about you, they’re trying to work up the strength and nerve to ask you out.
A few dates and a night out, and we, along with my mate and his friend, wind up back at his place. Alone in the bedroom, he said the words no woman wants to hear half undressed; “I’m sorry. I’m not over my ex”.
Cue torrential tears. I bawled like an American fire hydrant – great big, loud, gulping, waaaah sobs, seemingly shooting out from every direction. It was part too many gin and tonics – used to make me a bit maudlin – and in truth, too much suppressed pain bursting out. He ‘rejected’ me in a very vulnerable moment. Valuing me very little beyond my ability to attract guys, his admission catered to my worst beliefs. Right there in the moment, I knew it was a disproportionate reaction – I wasn’t really that into him – and was thinking, Bring it back Nat! Leave with your dignity!
My friend came racing in, and after demanding to know what had happened, told him off and somehow we both managed to flounce out. I was mortified by my reaction and a few more torrential tear sessions and I became more mindful of not using booze to escape myself or my pain. I wasn’t just responding and reacting to him – I was responding to the feelings and memories of the past that were resurrected. Banshee Nat wasn’t me.
It’s not about the ‘right’ or ‘wrong’ reaction – that triggers perfectionism where there’s the expectation to have the perfect response. We are self-critical creatures. Even when we do right by us, we wonder if we did it wrong or whether we could have done it better, as if we’re never going to be in a situation where we’ll have to step up for us again and have missed our slot.
Life provides numerous opportunities to improve upon and transcend past responses.
If when we are wronged or we feel hurt, we then judge our responses while not addressing the wrong or the source of pain, we are telling ourselves that it’s wrong for us to have responded. We are self-censoring as well as blinding ourselves to reality.
The more we’ve previously suppressed and repressed our feelings and opinions, is the stronger our reaction will be when we’re tipped over our stress threshold.
A strong reaction doesn’t necessarily equal a disproportionate reaction. As I explained to one BR student recently, getting angry when your boyfriend meets you for a drink, dumps you, and then admits that he got off with a mutual friend two days before, isn’t OTT. Anger is a valid and necessary emotion letting you know when we feel wronged. If we are conscious, aware, and present, it’s easier to distinguish between real injustices and those imagined ones created by ego.
Contextually, our reaction may seem disproportionate or ‘bad’ simply because we’ve not responded before or it’s not what the person expected – they may have expected that we’d take it lying down.
You cannot turn back time so use these experiences as Emotional Turning Points – standout moments in your life that put you on a more conscious path. Learn from what you don’t like about the experience, apologise (if needed or just to yourself), and move on from it so that you translate the lesson into growth instead of stagnation. Note that apologising for your actions is about owning your own. It is not about taking ownership of the other party’s behaviour.
You may not have chosen your response on the occasion that you wouldn’t mind wiping off your record but you get to choose your next and subsequent responses, as long as you’re willing to listen to yourself and what the experience is trying to point you to. Your reactions will be more on point if you are conscious, because half of this regret malarkey is about ‘waking up’ after the fact and then wishing you had been awake to do otherwise.
If you have a pattern of responding in a certain way, it’s time to look at the theme and get conscious about the cues, triggers, and responses. Look at where you’re responding to the past instead of the present but also where you’re driven by fear and threat.
If you want to have a level of security about your reactions, the answer isn’t to silence you; it’s to allow you to fully express yourself in general, not just for that one time only or on special occasions. Do it consistently, express yourself consistently and you will respond consistently and in line with your own values.
Your thoughts?
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This post is excellent! Very relevant, as I am attempting to reach out and make new friends lately. I’ve been reading here for long time and sadly I am finding the women I meet nowadays don’t behave too much better than many of the men that so many of us have had to deal with!
“Even when we do right by us, we wonder if we did it wrong or whether we could have done it better, as if we’re never going to be in a situation where we’ll have to step up for us again and have missed our slot.”
This! Feeling this so much.
I love this so much!
I agree in full ?
Oh Nat, you are an angel! The very last paragraph summed it for me…consistently expressing and not just having a one-off/when I’ve really just had it/come to the end of the rope….is now my new path (and to keeping in line with my values) as I did a real good job of silencing me in the past due to thinking others were always right and I was always wrong. Latter is changing and this post clarifies and articulates more what I have been recently thinking to help manifest the change. Thank you so much. Gina X
Natalie, I need you advice.
I’ve been consciously taking care of my emotional self now for several months, and it’s mostly been great, but the reaction from certain friends and loved ones to my new boundaries has been dicey at best.
My sister, whom I adore, plays a passive aggressive game where I can tell she’s annoyed with me but she’ll deny it and continue with shabby, snippy, disrespectful treatment. A few months ago, I could sense we had a major conflict brewing, so I e-mailed her and politely said I needed a month or two break from her in order to avoid the blow-up I could see coming. She replied and said, “Make it six months, you are exhaustingly needy.”
Huh? I didn’t respond. If she wants six months, she’s got it. I knew she was overreacting with that kneejerk response, but I’m sick of that kind of shit from her so I figured six months might wake her up.
Another recent exchange was with my BFF. I refinish furniture and created a three piece table grouping that was gorgeous. She loved it and said she wanted all three. We were tipsy that night and I quoted a price that was way too low. The next day I told her I needed to reassess my bid because I knew I had under-rated the value due to my drunken generosity. She got miffed and said, “Fine, but now I only want the one table, and don’t bother me about it until it’s finished.” So I told her when it was finished, she came by and loved it, but did not set up a time to pick it up or pay for it. After two weeks of waiting for her to let me know, I finally said, “I have to put some money in the bank, so if you still want that table it’s time to settle up.” She told me I needed to take a class in business because my sales pitch was offputting. I told her, “Look, I’m an artist, not an aspiring businesswoman and I don’t plan to sharpen up my wheedling skills. You’ve been dicking me around for two weeks now and all I need is a yes or no on that table.” She said, “Fine, my answer is no and I will never do business with you again.”
Natalie, I realize that setting and enforcing new boundaries and taking steps to ensure I don’t get taken advantage of will cause even people I love to react negatively, and I also realize that I tend to be blunt when I’ve had enough bullshit.
But will there ever come a time when these people understand I mean what I say and say what I mean, and the days of me being a pushover are over? I’m starting to feel like I may need to replace half the people I love with peoople who don’t know me and automatically assume I can be talked into anything.
This experience has taught me what an emotional weakling I have been all these years. It also has taught me how my dearest friends and loved ones have counted on me being a patsy, and now they are pissed off at my annoying new boundaries.
What do I do?
You don’t come across as a pushover, as you’ve described it, and it sounds a little bit like you might be angry with yourself for being as you call it an ’emotional weakling’ in the past and perhaps going further than you would because you’re so determined for it not to happen again.
I was talking to a friend recently about a man who’d said to me plainly that he wanted to sleep with me but not have a relationship. It upset me and I’ve had enough of men saying that kind of thing to me and feeling used and devalued by it. So she said that if most men do this, then it isn’t personal, and I shouldn’t take the fact that he’s said it personally. It is to do with his stuff, not me.
That was a bit of a revelation because I do take that kind of comment very personally but it’s usually said by men who don’t know me – ie she’s right, it’s not personal. So I don’t have to respond with anger or hurt, just be firm about what my own boundaries are.
In terms of your friend, it sounds to me like you did make yourself clear all the way through, but also that her reaction wasn’t that unreasonable – I’d be miffed if someone quoted me a price then said the day after that the price had gone up, and maybe a bit wary about buying it after that. Doing business with friends can be tricky anyway because both sides tend to expect an element of special treatment, but having said that do you know how she normally behaves about purchasing and paying for things? Was this her usual behaviour or was she really trying to mess you about?
And, after what’s happened, do you really want to do business with her again? No? Then, you’ve learned something useful that will avoid falling out with her in future, and you didn’t sell the table for a price that you would have regretted. It’s an annoying way to find that out, but you stood your ground.
Put those tables on eBay and let the bidding begin.
I make things also and I hate when people don’t want to pay fair prices for things — they don’t take into account the labor, the idea, or the fact that they’re getting something unique. I kind of went off the jewelry designing for a while because I hate trying to sell. The bug is slowly coming back, probably now b/c I don’t need money from it.
I was interested in what you said about your relationship with your sister. I have had similar problems, and I finally put my foot down about something the other night (which we’ve argued about before), and got an utter screaming blast.
Turns out it was menopausally-induced blasting, and we made up, but I really felt something change inside me. I have been people-pleasing in our home to keep the peace, and it shits me.
We were able to talk about it afterwards and I was able to express this beshittedness, and she apologised and said she was acting like our dad (which she was). I absolutely do NOT want to act like my mum, who we both find hard work (hypercritical, goalpost-shifting), so we have new ground from which to start.
I find it hard to ‘stand up to her’ because I have told myself for so long that my needs are not as important as others’, or that they are not real.
Since I have been doing the hard emotional yards (largely unsupported by her or anyone else in the Real World of late, although she’s been great help in the past), I have realised that I actually have very few real needs. This relieves me – I am more self-reliant than I thought – but the few I do have are pretty real to me.
Karen, it’s often said on BR that when we first start to enforce boundaries sometimes we are more zealous about it than we need to be. It sounds like you could modify your delivery a bit ~ you’re entitled to stand up for yourself and you have valid concerns, but the validity of your message can be lost if your approach is a bit aggressive. Re the furniture, for example, the line about settling up comes off as a bit harsh. You could have said something like, “If you’re still interested in the table, please let me know by X date, as I would like to post it for sale if not”. Then if she didn’t respond in time, I would go ahead and post it. If your sister is being passive aggressive, I would be inclined to tell her that you’ve tried asking her what’s wrong, she denies that there is an issue and yet is rude to you by making snarky remarks, and that you’ll talk to her when she’s willing to have a mature conversation with you about it.
I regret that I chose not to react to just recently being dumped by text on Tuesday night. I was gobsmacked! We had been out on 6 of the loveliest lengthy dates that involved nonstop talking, taking it slowly, dinner, a classic car show, the beach for a picnic day, and a variety of other very fun and mutually satisfying activities. There was definitely a spark of attraction and mental connection.
After the final most wonderful date, he said, “my eyes don’t lie”, and “I’m not going anywhere”, and told me to “get some rest and think of me and he will go home and think about you”….
We discussed my need to go slowly as I didn’t want to be hurt yet again as I was unsure if I was ready to date after coming out of a crappy relationship. Apparently, I was not ready, and apparently neither was he. He was coming out of some personal stuff too so it made sense to take our time but we connected on so many levels. I was really digging him and he, me…or so I thought…
Two days passed after the final beach date and on that night, he finally contacted my by text and wrote the following: “Hey you – hope you had a great day. Been thinking and I have to be honest and this is the tough part…I really like you Leslie but I’m afraid I have to ask that we not go any further. Friends if you can handle it. I am so sorry it isn’t another way.”
My jaw dropped. I was speechless. A text….how uncouth. I wanted to respond as I was quite angry about how he chose to tell me: He couldn’t man up and tell me in person nor give me any reasons WHY he was bailing. I could have taken it as I’m a big girl.
I am left not knowing and I regret not being able to ask and learn why. I have since deleted/thrown out his contact info, so I will never know. But does it really matter why? I am just wishing I HAD confronted him right away as this has been stewing in me ever since, which I know is not healthy. I think that by actually having a proper dialogue about it, I would be able to accept it easier, but now it will sit inside me until I can let it go completely. It has hurt me and chipped away at the trust I had finally gained.
It will pass and I learned a lot about his true character by the mere fact he chose to text dump me, and that is not how I deserve to be treated. Somehow now I wish I had talked to him, but maybe this is the best way it could have ended. Far better now than in a few months down the road….
Dear Leslie,
First @ Natalie, thanks for this fabulous writing, the penny dropped when I read:
“If we are conscious, aware, and present, it’s easier to distinguish between real injustices and those imagined ones created by ego.”
@Leslie – I admire how you dealt with the situation. No OUTWARDLY DIRECTED reaction on your part to his crappy and patronising text does NOT equal passive. You might not feel it right now but your active choice not to respond to this guy communicates something very valuable to and about your current state of awareness, which is that you are not gonna waste a second of your precious time engaging with a Mr. “If you can handle it”.
Silence is a very powerful “reaction” Leslie. The immediate flush response was the most appropriate thing to do IMO. Although this is of secondary importance, I am pretty sure his ego got a little buising as well 😉
Keep up the NC! RPx
Thank you RP. I felt strongly about choosing to NOT reply as it was me making a statement for sure as silence speaks volumes. I will not waste my very valuable time on anyone who treats me ‘less than’. I am worthy of so much more than that type of treatment. I agree that his behaviour was patronizing. Good description.
Friends if I can handle it….sticks in my craw. What a patronizing jerk. My friends, of whom I have plenty, would NEVER treat me like that, so, NO, we can never be friends, something that I believed we were cultivating.
With gratitude, and eyes wide open….
Leslie
I don’t think he was being patronizing – I think he was sub consciously exposing exactly what a nightmare he would be to be friends with.
Very controlling – to lead you on then dump you with little recourse for reversing the decision or what state you may be in upon finding out.
As for what the text actually does = cuts down the opportunity for his direct contact with real emotion or ‘unpleasantness’. As RP says – do you really want to be with a man who refuses to deal with and in fact runs from your very real emotions?
You definately did the right thing! Well done. You deserve to be with someone who wants to share your feelings and know them – no matter what they are.
You have also highlighted how hard it is to do the correct thing for yourself and keep it going and how if you aren’t careful you can persuade yourself out of it – with the promise of the unknown – ie what would have happened if only I had done so and so or… said so and so…. If only…I could have changed the world scenario.
Last but not least – were you ignoring red flags on those perfect dates? or just how duplicitous was he being for you to feel it was going great but for him to suddenly decide it wasn’t. Either you weren’t seeing the red flags or he was hiding them. Either way its not good. Thank heavens you got an early warning before investing even more of your time in this man.
He said, “My eyes don’t lie”. He had previously discussed how he wants someone who is a “10”. He is specific as to the look he wants (likely), & wants the best of that “look” (certainly–a “10”). He is all about what people see. Hence the nice, glamorous dates. too.
If someone (man or woman) wants out of a relationship, it’s best to take a very big step backwards and let them go. Why does anyone want to hang onto someone who says they don’t want you? Best not to go there, it’s a big red flag and the relationship is doomed.
You did the right thing for yourself by not responding, what in all honesty can you say to someone who doesn’t want to see you anymore.
See Nat’s posts on 10 core breakup boundaries and why telling them all about themselves is a losing proposition.
Breaking up by text is cowardly, at least a phone call or face to face shows they have some integrity. Even more cowardly are people who just go dark and disappear and hope you get the hint.
He is a patronising jerk, ‘friends if you can handle it’ … No thanks, who needs friends like that. That would stick in anyone’s craw.
Just be aware that he may circle back sooner or later to see if you are still available and if you’re still speaking to him. A text or email saying ‘hi, how are you’ or ‘miss you’ means nothing. I’ve fallen into this trap before and responded, thinking it meant something, it didn’t. Don’t bother answering any fishing texts emails or calls, just flush!
I’m probably in the minority here, but the guy doesn’t sound like a jerk. Just that he realized that the dating at that point had nowhere to go but “relationship” and he wasn’t ready for that. I bet you will hear from him when he THINKS he’s ready (whether he really is or not who knows, and then you’ll have to decide whether to give him another chance.) As for the text breakup, yeah, that could have been handled better, but he probably didn’t even know WHY he felt that way. He just knew he was terrified. My guess, he likes you too much and it scares him.
Horses for courses. Personally I’d rather get a text than an invitation to meet, without knowing why, then dressing up, getting excited and travelling over there only to be dumped and have to hold it together in front of them. I can understand why you wanted to see him though.
As for your response, I agree with RP. You handled this in a dignified way.
Im with your Kriss. Same. Been there a few weeks ago. Got dressed, lovely restaurant that Ive been dying to go to and he ends it. And the usual “can we be friends” etc. And he continued to chat like everything was totally fine “Oh how did that job interview go, tell me about it?”. Yadda, yadda. I left as soon as I could (man, he killed my appetite completely), gave him the basic respect, no nasty, holding it together (it was SO hard to do). And sent him a semi-mean text when I got home.
Leslie,
I also regret some reactions from the past, but actually regret that I actually reacted.
I was dumped by text message and I choose to react ( to fight in the name of the love and etc. ). I regret, that I was chasing for 6 months and played the mouse and cat game. This really drained me emotionally. Right now, in this momenta I know that this reaction didn’t work well for me. I know, that doing NC was in my best interest and now I have this knowledge.
NC is also reaction, but sometimes we need hard lesion to understand that.
“I regret that I chose not to react to just recently being dumped by text on Tuesday night.”
You actually reacted by doing NC!
He’s not worth a response, let alone a discussion. I’m sorry for you, that txt sucked….I shed a tear for you when I read it. It reminded me of the break up email my EU man sent me earlier this year, after 2 years together….on the bright side, at least you didn’t waste years with this guy, he’s not for you, you’ll find love soon enough, we both will.
I understand what you are going through. My exgf broke up with me via text telling me she wasn’t into it and want me to find someone else. I was trying to understand why she was emotional distant and being emotional unavailable to me. There were signs she was depressed and I tried so hard to connect/understand, give her space when she needed to do her things, and try planning trips to get her out of her stressful life. There were so many questions I wanted to ask but I felt numb and can’t say a word after reading that text. I always regretted for not saying anything after being shocked and hurt. After 7 months NC she emailed me why we broke up was she wasn’t over her ex. That brought a lot of pain reading that sentence and it finally connects all the cryptic tumblr messages she was posting when we going out and why she behave the way she did. I was full in rage and want to give her every piece of my mind where I felt betrayed, hurt, and make her feel every pain I felt these past 7 months. However, I took a week to make sure what I think is true and just replied I wish that she told what was bothering back then but I finally feel free. She asked if we can be friends, and I said no because it won’t work. Old memories will come back and don’t want to relieve them. She meant a lot to me but never it was never reciprocated back to me. There were at times I wish I communicated better and say the right words but whatever happened lead me a better understanding of what she is and what improvements I need to make. It was bittersweet the lessons I learned but it was a painful to go through.
Cristobol,
Your story looks similar to mine. She was very disconnected, always saying that there are no real men and always watching sad love drama movies like “The notebook”. Actually she was chasing me and she asked me to go to her place. We were in the bed, but didn’t feel comfortable, because I need more time to have intimacy, so I just hugged her and went to home in the morning. After couple of hours I got a message: “Thank you, that you didn’t behave like many men would!”.
She is single mother and 7 years older than me. I decided to be a bit passive and to not ask about her past, because didn’t want to open old wounds. I also felt, that I have to get the passenger role, because she is older and have life experience ( I expected, that she is mature ). We continued dating for the next 2 months and all the time I was on pedestal. She invited me for second time at her place, but I rejected, she got a bit angry, but I went home. At one moment I felt attached and I was really into her, also my libido was on 101%, but then she started to step back. She was turning her head on side when I was trying to kiss her or asked me to go home when I was starting the love game. I guess, that you see red flags everywhere, but I was so blinded of the illusion and didn’t ask what’s wrong for months.
One night I asked her what she wants and what are these reactions and etc. She told me that she wants to stop to date with me. I stayed in the room and tried to have mature conversation. I asked if I can do something, if I can slow down and etc. I was very calm and BAMMMMM, she started to cry and asked me: “Don’t you ever ever hurt people?”. WTF, did she expected from me to freak out and to beat her or yell? I told her, that: “I am trying to have normal conversation. I am in love with you, how can I hurt you?” I felt annoying, because she was crying and I was bombarding with questions, like if there is somebody else and etc. I decided to leave, but we agreed to talk on the other day, when she feels better. On the other day I was dumped by message.
Next 6 months I felt emotionally hungry. I was bombarding her with love, but she was bombarding me with emotional black mail. For e.g. 3 weeks after the breakup, she went to company event. At 00:00 I got the message: “These men are wild!” I couldn’t sleep well next 3 weeks. ( I regret, that I didn’t flush her )
On the next week after the message I really wanted to speak with her, because she was giving mixed messages. Finally after some drama from my side she said: “I meet somebody from time to time.” I felt so small … I guess, that this is how the OW feels, when they realize, that they are/were the OW. My self esteem was -101% and next months I was behaving like the the “Other men”, bombarding her with love and saying: “pick me, pick me!”. ( I regret, that I didn’t flush her )
I actually tried NC couple of times, but she found ways to contact me by texts:
– My daughter wants to play with your dog, can we come to visit?
– Sorry, that I behaved bad last weeks.
– Our mutual friend is in the city, may be you want to meet him?
– Are you able to consult me about possible software project of my company?
– Can you come to my office to help me to test on scanner?
– How can I recover erased files from the HDD?
– How can I send online invoice and to see if the customer have seen the invoice?
– Listen David Hallyday – high.
– There is new cake in the baker where we go usually.
– What music the play club XYZ, because I have to organize company event?
There is a lot more, but I don’t want to bore you.
I was trying to go NC, but after each crumb ( of nostalgia I guess ) I was going back with hope, even she told me, that she was seeing somebody else.
Well at the end there was a boiling point. One night we were texting and she send me a message, that she is drinking vine and I going in bed to watch movie. I made something, that I still regret, because I could have balls and to behave in different way. I replied back, if I can join and to watch movie with her. I did this with clear idea, that depending on the answer I will find out if she is playing with me. She answered, that I got her wrong on the last meeting. I asked how she got some of my love bombarding? Well finally I wanted 5 minutes conversation and I knocked on her door ( she didn’t open ) and I still regret, that I crossed this line to knock on the door of somebody who doesn’t want to talk to me. I sent message, that this is the end for me and I distancing myself from her, I am deleting her from the social networks and IMs. When I went back home, she already deleted me from FB. On the next day I sent message saying sorry and forgiving her if she thinks, that she did something wrong in the last months ( this was so pathetic ).
After 2 weeks she started to contact me via FB. I didn’t know, that if she is not in my contacts, then she can send me messages. She was asking if I can find work in my company for her friend. I was calm and replied, that so far we are not looking for people.
We crossed paths, because we work on 20 meters distance ( her office is in the next building ). I was with sports wear. I got message in FB at the end of the day. She was instructing me from where to buy new classy clothes and she will buy a perfume … this should be for the meetings / dates. I answered, that I feel happy with sports wear, but I of course accept suggestions. I said, that I am grown person and I can take care about myself. I got message with apologize. I decided to stop using FB for some months, I wanted to take my time and to realize what is going on. I think, that I was near 6 weeks out of FB. When I entered again I had message from here: “Do you want to go to eat pizza with me?” The message was before 2 – 3 weeks. I answered, that my will is that there will be no more meetings and communication between us. I wished all the best to here and put her in spam folder.
I totally changed my routines … I changed my route to work, I changed the time when I start work. My work friends started to joke with me, why I don’t use my usual route. I told them, that I don’t want to see something that will make me angry. One of them said: “Yes we also see them.”. My answer was that I don’t know who “they” are, but I don’t feel good to see her, so please stop reminding me about her.
I don’t know how I managed to waste so much time. I am still not completely over her. I felt, that my healing is not going well, because I had the chance to see here every day and this really freaked me out. I was unhappy. Some girls had interest in me, but I realized, that I am not over her and none have to be a victim, because of this.
For somebody it will sound funny, but I closed my company and moved to another country. I think to stay away until I am not completely over her. I just felt, that because of the dram I stopped to be myself. I started to have bad with people or just to don’t care.
Yes I regret many things, that happened in this drama, but I was able to learn very serious lesions: When to flush and to use NC for people possible make drama. I also found, that there is something wrong if I attend in situations like this, so I started to work more about loving myself, working on boundaries and settings standards!
Thanks to this blog and for the NC!
P.S. Wow! Really long comment from me, but I hope, that my story can help to somebody!
The comments about men in general make me think that she has unprocessed anger at men, in general.
So True,
I also got this impression, because she was constantly blaming the men. Of course I was on pedestal and I after each “compliment” from her I was wondering with what I deserved that.
With time and distance from her I see something else. Tell me, that I am crazy but she was looking for her ABUSER and at one moment she was trying to get negative reaction from me. I think, that she wasn’t comfortable to be treated with respect, care and love, so at one moment she just switched to her crazy side. I can’t imagine that a mother will expose her child on possible abuse. Wtf she didn’t know me so well, why the hell then she introduced me to her kid after 3 weeks of dating.
Why I think, that she was setting me for her “abuser”:
– She started to talk about another guys and I think that this was some kind of passive way to make jealous.
– When she was crying in here room and was telling me that she wants to stop dating with me, she was so surprised of my intentions to have mature conversation what is going on. Her surprise: “Don’t you ever ever hurt people?”
– Some emotional black mail on which I didn’t got angry or yelled at her. I just send response, that I am worrying about her and I hope, that everything is fine. The emotional blackmail: At 00:00 I got the message: “These men are wild!” I couldn’t sleep well next 3 weeks. ( I regret, that I didn’t flush her )
This is what I felt and I couldn’t attend to this anymore. I can compare her with close girlfriend, that constantly was looking for somebody to abuse here after her breakup of her first love “an abuser”. I actually don’t know if she wasn’t like this before the abuser … may be she was challenging him.
Anyway I am happy, that I am out of this drama and have time to work on my own issues.
Thanks.
Leslie,
Unfortunately, this is becoming a common method of ending things: Coward does not want to deal with any potential drama.
You handled things perfectly!
You did the right thing, Leslie.
It hurts like hell – OH, how it hurts! – but it’s the equivalent to pulling the bandaid off quickly, or pulling it off very, very slowly.
Keep your peace; regain your composure, and THANK HIM in your heart for letting you see that he was not going to be there for you when you needed him. Dumping by text is pretty piss-weak.
Next step: When he comes sniffing around again in a while – having re-thought the issue, or having discovered that the woman he picked up while he was dating you is a psycho and that you look great by comparison – don’t go there.
Just don’t. It’s so tempting to do the ‘I told you so’ thing, but don’t get involved. He’s not worth it. If he’d told you to your face, that would have been one thing, but the text thing – no way. No second chances.
I let someone back in my life under the above circumstances, and oh, I regretted it!
“After the final most wonderful date, he said, “my eyes don’t lie”, and “I’m not going anywhere”, and told me to “get some rest and think of me and he will go home and think about you”….”
PS: Future faker, much?
Some of the best advice I was ever given was, ‘Never ask anyone WHY they did something, because chances are, they can’t tell you.’
I have found this to be true both in my own life and the lives of others. I couldn’t tell you the real reason WHY I did particular things, and there was usually more than one reason.
And if you asked me one day, I’d give you one answer, and if you asked me again in six months, I’d give you another.
‘Why’ is not really the issue here. You’ll never know, and it really shouldn’t matter too much, and it won’t matter to you at all in a few weeks’ or months’ time.
Right now, asking ‘why’ and wanting to ask him ‘why’ might just be an excuse for seeing him again and talking, talking, talking, and hashing, hashing, hashing. It’s just pointless and hurtful, and things get said that can’t be un-said.
What matters right now is ‘IS’. Grieve a bit (but not too long!) and then move on. You owe it to yourself. And at least now you know what ‘fun’ feels like, and what qualities you are looking for in a positive sense.
Leslie
You did the absolute best you could do. Silence speaks volumes and keeps your dignity besides. This clown did you a favor by not meeting. Whatever reason he had for doing thus wasn’t going to make it any less painful. And nope, you cannot be friends.
At least he took the time to tell you, even if it was by text. He could have just disappeared. Have you ever decided to drop somebody? It isn’t easy. You are so afraid of hurting their feelings and dealing with tears, etc.
NEXT!!
Leslie, I just had a similar experience and feel for you! I had to resist sending a narky text to a guy who’s pulled the silent act on me all of a sudden. This is after he told me how much he liked me and how he wanted to go away with me and he followed up our dates by texting me about how he really wants to see me again with twenty smiley faces, etc… I have to be honest with myself that I ignored a bunch of red flags. For one, all this stuff he was saying was in the space of two dates and text messages in between. I have to remind myself that actually by choosing to stay silent and not engaging with him further I’m sparing myself from more hurt down the track. Part of me wants an explanation from him or to have the last word, but I also know (from BR and unfortunately similar past experiences!) better than that. He’s revealed himself clearly now and I have to listen to that and move on!
There were so many times I wished I could have changed my reaction, especially with the AC. There were times I felt I was too emotional and other times I wasn’t emotional enough. But once I made peace with all that went on, I realized that it didn’t matter how I reacted in the past, but that I will be better equipped in the future.
I agree with RP. Button pushers do it for the reaction. When they lob an emotional grenade, they want maximum reaction. No reaction whatsoever is the best way to deal with, because it messes up their plans to tell you how much you over-react to everything.
There were times I would remain placid when I was really riled, and times I reacted strongly, the intensity of the emotions a surprise to me. This is such a clear explanation of what was going on. I could only control the perception of me for so long before my feelings came out. I did deceive myself the outcome would be different…it’s good to finally admit that to myself…
I needed this. I have taken too long to get over someone I dated last year long distance. In fact, just yesterday, I made up a list of my imagined transgressions against him (no proof other than my over active imagination) and what about him I am ignoring to keep believing there is something wrong with me. It definately worked to help let it go….
But on the list were two things:
A. How I handled that he was late for a call he had suggested with me. I was literally across the world, and when we finally spoke I expressed I was diss appointed we did not connect and then went on to talk about how I was ready to come home from my two week adventure
B. How I handled the breakup. He ended it with me when I asked if he was still coming to visit a few weeks later and had never bought the ticket. Oh yeah, and I was off the plane from a 30 hour plane adventure to get home(yes, a few days after missed call). He expressed he wanted more and in fact after 4 months did not know me enough. I was flabbergasted because the week prior to my vacation, he had started saying “love you” at the end of calls, had called and texted a ton, had written me a letter about how I was such a peaceful influence and begged to schedule calls while I was away.
In my mind, if I had just asked more questions he would have decided to stay with me. That because I expressed I thought it would be hard for us to meet other people with the connection and that I knew he was not in love with me yet but we were getting there (hense the next visit) and that I could see him as my husband (only time mentioned and was clear that we were not there, but it could see it). When in reality, he had already decided to hammer this out with his friends and mother who he does not like or respect, and not discuss it with me in a way to find a solution. No one would support something long distance and god knows what he told them.
Anyhow, my heart still breaks and I feel confused about how you go from moving things forward to ending it seemingly overnight.
The goods news is that once we had those conversations that day, I never once contacted him and I am 3 months with full NYC, meaning social media lurking….
Oops meaning no social media lurking…
I feel that I mainly restrict myself from expressing anger, tears, and pain in front of people. I have done this so much and done so much meditation and tried to be some sort if Buddha that I’ve forgotten how to be me. And I think I’ve repressed these perceived negative emotions for so long before that that I feel uncomfortable in expressing even I myself.
Thanks for this post cos it gives me permission to be myself more.
I’ve strived to be perfect for too long.
I just want to let myself be me.
Well…maybe I’m twisted, but, I just love effing with mind-effers. Leslie, your guy is a mind-effer. He knew he was “lobbing an emotional grenade” (love that term, Karen). When that happens to me I throw it right back.
I recognize the mind game right away…when they pull an about face and suddenly want to dump you when yesterday they were “so in love”.
The best way to eff them up is to be accepting and just as ready to move on as they seem to be. I guarantee you that every time I’ve done this, that man kept hanging on because he did not get the “woman-in-pain” reaction he was going for.
In your case Leslie, I would have texted right back within five minutes “Yes, I agree those six days were beautiful. But if it’s not to be…oh well…as they said in Casablanca ‘we’ll always have Paris’. Friends always.”
Guarantee that was NOT the reaction he wanted. He’d be texting you very soon trying to discern if there is any nuance of hurt in you. It’s a game and he is the loser.
And Leslie, don’t let your ego do the driving. Sometimes things are not meant to be and we need to move on and not have our egos so invested in the situation. There’s lots of disappointment in affairs of the heart. I think that is why it becomes easy to recognize a good relationship, because we realize there is no drama, few disappointments, lots of reliability…AND WE DON’T THINK OF IT AS BORING.
i agree with you, elgie, but i think leslie did the right thing, not playing the game.we need to recognise the games and stop playing them.
leslie, why why? he’s emotionally unavailable. that’s why. there’s no other reason.
Elgie, I kind of agree with the principles, if not the technique. If you respond to these people, even in the way you suggest, you get caught in an ongoing ‘he said she said’ kind of mess that drags the whole thing out.
I still think silence is the best way. Let them stew in their own juice for a bit, and then the panic-stricken texts start.
Then you delete them, and go out and buy yourself a treat for not responding.
Ethelreda (love the name), I also reward myself when I stick to NC. I’ve been NC for 5 whole months from a man who was emotionally abusive, married, an alcoholic, and a jerk (and get this–I was crazy about him and wanted to Marry Him!). I celebrate every month on the 19th, my NC anniversary, by buying myself a nice present and congratulating myself on staying strong. It helps.
Heck, I bought shoes once. Really tall ones. They were my first pair of really killer heels in ages …
I hardly ever wore them, but that didn’t matter. I WON.
Hi Elgie,
If we were like machines that could wipe out our “memory & feeling cards” instantly then I can imagine responding quickly with a smart-ass, eff you answer. However, we are humans with hopes and expectations so the message that Leslie received is likely gonna hurt for a while. An immediate “I don’t give a shit” response is a pretense. Of course she gives a shit, and that is not something she should try to hide from herself or any AC. If you are upset (which should usually be the case if someone text-dumps you) then the only way to be authentic to yourself and your feelings is to go NC IMO.
Amen to that RP!
I agree with RP. I did a lot of the smart-aleck, if-you-don´t-care-I-care-even-less thingy with the sicko narc EUM who got me here and it only made me get deeper into the mud with him. Perhaps in the beginning it was a useful defense mechanism, but after a while it became part of our cat and mouse dynamics, and I was unable to discern what my real feelings were. As I hid my hurt from him, I ended up hiding it from myself as well. So in the end I spent too much time in the EU-web, when I should just have gone NC right away and flushed him and the sick relationship altogether.
I think the one thing that left him speechless was that I finally decided to express my true feelings and go NC when he didn´t tell me he felt the same.
(Some years later, he still tries to sniff around, by the way, but I just ignore his lame texts.)
Thanks for the great post, Natalie! I read it after having an another unpleasant discussion with my neighbour, a woman in her fifties. Because I live on the groundfloor, her cats keep entering my apartment. My dog hates that and tries to chase them out. Chaos. I think, that pet owners should look after their animals, feed them properly and take them in at night. I live in the city. So after her very unfriendly reaction, I mailed her very politely my request, not to feed straying cats around the house and taking her cats in at night.
IMO there are two sorts of people: the ones, who realise, that there is a conflict and try to discuss it in a constructive manner. Then there are the others who simply have no empathy. The guy who dumps somebody by text as in Lesley’s case. My neighbour who simply does not care about other persons needs or requests. I think, we cannot change those people. We can only address our boundaries, stick to them and never blame ourselves for their problems.
Which is sometimes tricky, because those people often try to present themselves as victims and us as the offenders.
I just saw my younger brother who is in his early twenties who dropped it on me that he had relapsed with heroin.
I am in rehab myself (outpatient) not for heroin. I’d imagine it kills a lot of people before they make it to rehab.
My brother has movie star good looks (it is eerie how handsome he is given the situation–goes to show you never can tell) is gifted and can be funny & he’s very much addicted to heroin.
I cried and told him I loved him but not to call me if he gets in trouble. My heart is breaking.
Peanut,
You did the right thing. You cant save him. You know that. It would be the same thing even if you weren’t receiving treatment yourself. You torture yourself by wanting more and better than he wants for himself at the moment.
Peanut
I am so sorry. From your own experience, you know he must take the steps needed to help himself.
Peanut- I’m sorry about your brother. Hugs, Peanut.
This subject is right on time Nat as I have been dealing with this subject pretty heavy lately.
Before I go any further I want to say that there is a liberation in knowing that when it comes to others, including family, there are no stones or cheeks that I have left unturned. I have come to realize that there is literally nothing left for me to do…but be a friend to myself for the first time since childhood. For the longest time I chided myself for not reacting more, fighting back more, when I was teased and bullied in school. See, I have been the type to hold stuff in and absorb things. There were also times where I wished that I would have said this or done that in response to somebody crossing the line with me. But in doing my internal work, I recently had to ask myself, how could I put myself on the hook for someone else’s wrong doing? I literally done everything that I could do. I told my parents who brought it to the principal, I fought back, and I just ignored the bullies growing up. In my young adulthood I brought up a couple of peoples behavior in the most calm, cool, and adult manner possible only to have them make it seem like I was the one out of place for wanting to be respected and not insulted unprovoked. In undergrad I was friends with a guy who had a roommate who would literally just make fun of and hurl insults at me for no reason. I came to realize that the issue wasn’t that I under reacted, the issue was that I am the kind of person who needs some sort of rhyme, reason, and provocation for doing and saying things, while I took up with people who did not quite frankly. The issue was that I was looking for other adults to ‘pull their weight’ as a person. The issue was that I don’t quite know how to ask someone to please treat me right. I was around people at times who would say and do unkind things unprovoked (starting with my mother. Literally out of nowhere. I am and always have been quiet(back then), calm, cool, and peaceful type of person. I mind my own business and I leave people alone. I treat and speak to all with dignity because that is who I am and that is what I want back. It simply is not in me to hurt or harass people for no reason. So I was thrown when I interacted with people who were quite the opposite. I not to long ago removed myself from a situation where the respect for me was simply not there. And at this place in my life, and going forward (in my early 30’s), I am not begging for someone’s respect. See, to tie this all in, more so than a lesson in how I should have reacted, my experience with these people were lessons in who I need to FLUSH! Period. I only want people around who are mindful of their energy, words, and ways. I refuse to battle, audition, or jump through hoops to ‘earn’ somebody’s respect or good treatment. That’s a somebody that needs a flushing. I am learning to how to be a friend to myself and ‘defend my corner’ as I have been guilty as charged of being a better to everyone else than I was to myself.
There are a lot of things I wish I could have done differently in my relationship with the ex AC but I try to remember that my actions came from a place I thought was love that turned out to be fear, insecurity and self loathing. Even when I knew better, I was too afraid to do better. However, underneath all that insecurity was a girl trying to love (unworthy)man as best as she could.
I put all my energy in loving him not knowing I should have been directing that energy towards loving myself. It is difficult to look back and not want to berate myself for all the times I should have walked away but I didn’t. However I try to remember that that version of me spent years crying and hurting whilst trying to maintain a situation that wasn’t working for her. She has suffered enough without me (Jane 2.0) constantly looking back and judging her for being all she knew how to be.
Jane, this really resonated with me….you put into words the feelings that I struggled with while with the AC. After 6 months of no contact, changing my phone numbers etc he turned up at my back door…would I date him again IF he broke up with the poor lady in his life? What an insult and yet I just sat there and did nothing. What is wrong with me that I couldn’t tell him to fuck off when I saw him, I feel like I am back to that awful place I was in when I finally found the strength to get out of a really awful 5 year relationship.
He just sat there and told me that the relationship problems that we had had were all down to me and I just let him. After he left my 18 year old son said why on earth would I go back to or even be friends with a man who treated me like absolute crap and I didn’t know what to say.
I had been doing so well, feeling really good and happy and I just feel totally wiped out again.
Sandy
It is okay. Don’t be hard too hard on yourself. When I am with some of my oldest friends, I regress into behaving like a teenager again. NC is important because when we are around an EX AC we sometimes regress back to being the people we were in that relationship. It doesn’t mean you haven’t changed or grown it only means that for that moment you regressed. our brain goes to the familiar responses. Muscle memory almost.
Keep your head up, keep NC and be thankful that you are raising a son who knows the right and wrong way to treat a woman.
Thanks Lizzy P, yep you are exactly right, I regressed and it hurt. Thank you for your lovely words about my son, I had never actually thought of it that way and that made me feel a lot happier I must admit 🙂
I liked this one. There’s a very pretty woman at the gym. When I met her last year I was unavailable (I didn’t want to date) but at the time I was just looking for friends at the gym and she was cool. Then I was with two different Miss Unavailables, including the one who seriously burned me. Well, gym girl showed some serious interest a few weeks ago and I reacted – to what I perceived her expectations of me to be. I basically freaked out internally; great opportunity, very nice person. Fortunately, I’ve learned. I hadn’t even considered dating again and that pushed me into wondering if I should try to date her.
But rather than immediately react to the pressure and ask her out knowing I wasn’t ready, I pulled back and asked myself, “Do I want to be that guy? Do I want to put someone else through that? I would be a handful, to say the least, and that isn’t fair.” So, instead of jumping in like I would have in the past, I stepped back and considered whether I can handle dating and it going somewhere. I don’t think I’ve ever considered my own feelings and desires like that before. While I know she is probably disappointed, it’s better than me screwing her around and hurting her. I feel good about reacting but controlling it, examining that reaction, and making the right call for me. Can’t start dating to get over an ex or show them up, it isn’t right.
Also saw my epiphany Miss Unavailable. No contact is working. Without the rose-tinted glasses and the fur coat of denial, as it’s been described, I couldn’t remember what I liked about her or wanted with her at all. There is nothing special about her. I was definitely punching below my weight class. Hopefully, this is a good start and I’ll be able to find someone more suitable for a relationship now that I feel emotionally open to giving someone else a chance. The last few weeks have shown me there are plenty of nice, attractive women out there and the best thing I can do is get to know them a bit as people first, and use that to determine if I want to date them. While slow and steady might cost me a few, I’m okay with that. As Natalie says, there’s no fire as I work on getting out of my comfort zone and into the uncomfortable unknown.
Burned,
So refreshing to read, whether you are male or female.
Male. We’re not all ACs and Mr. Unavailables. I have realized I get judged on my looks a lot and women assume I am like that or a Mr. Playa-Playa without actually talking to me. I’m pretty much the opposite – all about finding the right person, settling down in a mutually fulfilling relationship, and one day having a family. I think that’s why I draw the wrong kind of women so often. I’ve tried dating all different types but since I like strong women who can hold their own, like the women in my family, I keep getting confused by the ones who broadcast faux strength and independence to mask serious insecurity and emotional issues. They tend to fake me out and use the dream or any past hurts and insecurities against me if they already know me, until their nicey-nice facade crumbles and I’m left with a selfish, neglectful jerk. Usually by then I’m emotionally invested and have had trouble extricating myself before it gets really bad. That’s why I’m here. I want the real deal, and to learn about myself and my choices so I can choose more wisely and not worry about others’ feelings if I have to opt out due to their behavior. It’s just about the only place I’ve found where the blogger addresses guys (though not as much as I’d like) that isn’t all about “go get some sex” or “screw women over with games.”
I’m not doing that. I like sex as much as the next person. I do not like meaningless sex. To me, it’s not something to do with just anyone. So, I’m working on how to build a better me and find a real relationship where I won’t get fast-forwarded or feel pressured by someone else, deal with her crappy behavior, etc.
So far, so good. Thanks for the comment back.
“We’re not all ACs and Mr. Unavailables.”
I tend to think that if you (or I) habitually find yourself in… romantic situations with a series of people who are unavailable – that ‘s virtually diagnostic of your being EU.
I think the best each one of use can do is examine where we ourselves are EU in order to advance as people.
So the attitude “I’m not an EU, but I keep getting entangled with all of these EUs” doesn’t ring true, in fact it rings like a bellyflop. That’s why were’s all here I think.
Agreed. It’s something that cropped up after my marriage to the sociopath. I was doing pretty well with boundaries and walking on future faking and fast forwarding afterward, until this last one. I had a mutual parting of ways with the first Miss Unavailable because she got distant and I walked. With number 2, thought I knew her well enough already. She took a while to unfold. When she did, I was in disbelief it was the same person.
I want to break that pattern, now that I’ve discovered it, sooner rather than later. Two’s enough.
I know what you mean about meeting the seemingly same people over and over again. It’s easier to notice when there is dysfunction. I would live in different locations, and yet very similar people would somehow be drawn to me and apropos of nothing insult me using my mom’s very own choice put-downs to me nearly verbatim.
Burned, I think we keep drawing the same old same old to us until we stick up for ourselves and believe it.
So true, So True. Actually turned out the woman at the gym wasn’t so nice. She was trying to use me for a prop in some drama with her trainer boyfriend. I am glad I had those fear and drama feelings stirring inside and didn’t take the bait. I felt good about my decision at the time and even better now.
I have begun to notice different types of women from her and the exes in places where I’m social. (I’m not a bar/club guy but I don’t sit around at home.) Like, that whole tightness in the chest in gut feeling doesn’t happen but I still feel attraction. I have to admit that it’s different and weird to feel one without the other. But it’s so much easier to be myself when I don’t feel that. I looked at my history; a long time ago, dealing with crushes in grade school/high school, I associated that feeling with “love.” I wasn’t very attractive as a kid and the girls went out of their way to put me down, even ones I had no interest in. Many I see now, as an adult, react with shock at what I’ve become.
But I’m still the awkward kid that nobody wants inside when I deal with women sometimes, especially the ones who drive those feelings. I had been going to them thinking it must be love. They use and abuse me and I must’ve normalized that. I had two normal girlfriends in college but in high school and around those two, the girls and women were EU or full on ACs.
But as Nat says – pain isn’t love, it’s pain. Now I know that when I was a kid, they were wrong. And they’re wrong now. I am also wrong, because I shouldn’t have been participating in anything resembling fear, pain, and drama. This latest incident is the first time I’ve felt that, even though I couldn’t explain why or what it was and turned in on myself to ask questions, and opted out of engaging. Looking at the trouble and potential heartache I probably just saved myself, I’m pleased with the result. Fear + drama = opt out regardless, because no good will come of it for anybody.
Changing the entire perspective is hard, but necessary. Perhaps, when I am looking, I should be looking at the women I meet and socialize with that I do find attractive but who don’t frighten the holy living daylights out of me because they’re not radiating drama. Thanks, So true, you got me thinking in a good way.
I know that with me, I’ve mistaken certain handsome mens’ in-my-face, super interested behavior as flattering (“he must really see something in me”), when really, he’s verging on boundary busing and imposing, which he quickly does.
It’s been hard for me to see my part in allowing people to treat me poorly, because I don’t have “daddy issues” – I hate that phrase. It was my mom who abused me and still does. So, when someone is demanding and intrusive, that gets filed in my brain right next to “love”.
I’ve had to slow down and notice that healthier people, men and women, who can and do respect me as one might a stranger at least, do not lean in. They don’t try to wear me down for a date or a favor, so because they are so aware of my boundaries and their own, it has looked to me like disinterest. That is, I am so used to being abused physically and psychologically that respect looks like disinterest to me! But not boring.
Another author has said that to stop these reoccurring invalidators and users, we just need to assert ourselves. After one or maybe two or three times of asserting ourselves, new ones won’t come around.
Now, zombie ex partners may continue to come around or call, but new people will not sense that they can “test” us so easily.
I thank you all for your support on this. Yes, it DOES hurt. Already, after much reflection, I have let go of the need to know ‘why?’…it just doesn’t matter. I know from my past patterns that I would have dragged it out, sought him out for more torture and wanted to fix things. The drama that he was trying to avoid. And yes, I have been thinking of ways to ‘bump’ into him, to confront him, BUT, have taken the high road and stopped myself from sinking to that pathetic place. No way. Day by day, I get stronger and love myself for NOT responding and I thank all of you here for reinforcing that!! YAY!!! I know it is the right answer. As the movie says, which ironically was JUST on tv 2 nights ago,”HE’s JUST NOT REALLY THAT INTO YOU”!!
But I know clearly that I did absolutely nothing wrong, it is NOT about me, but about HIS issues and immature choices. He’s 52 and still has the mindset of boy, not a man, as shown by his rating women on a scale, (he stated he was seeking an 11 out of 10…um good luck with that, Buddy). No one will ever measure up. He wants a Barbie draped off his arm. He said he had dated women who were an 8 or a 9 out of 10, but something didn’t measure up, likely not even deal breaker issues or fatal flaws, and he, THANKFULLY, for their sake, ‘let them go’. I am now uber thankful that I dodged this potentially very painful bullet! He did me a huge favour. Looking back at it, I see he has a host of unsavoury characteristics and things that wouldn’t have sat right with me in the long run. Thanks, but no thanks!
Well folks, I am an 11 out of 10 to ME!! That’s what matters!! And one day, I will find a man who appreciates me just the way I am and vice versa. Not pedestal stuff, just REAL stuff.
As we were ending the last date, and he was making the comments about eyes not lying, him not going anywhere yada yada, I sensed FUTURE FAKING!! BUT, I knew in the back of my mind that he was suddenly and magically not interested in pursuing this any further. I KNEW IT!! And I fretted the next 2 days waiting to hear from him and BINGO! Text dump.
I was hoping that he would call and want to move forward with me, but deep down, I felt it wasn’t going to happen. That’s the stinger…the waiting and our old friend, Expectation. Trying to keep busy, trying not to pursue him, as if he was truly interested, he would show it. He did not. End of story.
So move on I am! Why, though, does everyone seem to suggest that he will come sniffing around again? I don’t feel he will. I don’t want him to. I am better than that and certainly don’t want to be second choice to anyone! He didn’t appreciate me the first time, so why stop over for a revisit? I see him for who he is and that is an immature materialistic boob!! He and I actually discussed the ‘never go back’ point, as it never works out well, as noted in this thread. I did it once too, and what a monumental failure that was. That is when I found this blog, thank GAWD!! Has helped me immeasurably!
So rest assured that IF he decides to come a’knockin’, which I fully doubt, that that door is CLOSED!! Even my brother said this!! How protective! He gave a great male’s perspective and I love him for it 😉 Again, I thank you all for your input and reassurance. I feel much better!
What’s this? He rates women on a number scale, and doesn’t keep it to himself (because we’re all dying to know how he feels about our bodies)? Flush.
P.S. Not that is changes things or really matters, but the only men I’ve known who seemed to want women to jump through their boolsheet hoops and broadcast that fact, lookswise, were gay and or severely self loathing.
Ive learnt to never drink coffee when reading this site, because theres always that killer line that makes me splutter it all over my laptop. And Leslie, when you said he was 52, yup…same old same old…they never grow up LOL. As for him wanting an 11 out of 10..I bet if you were honest, he would rate much much lower on the scale 😉
Its clear he wanted a reaction of disappointment, and for you to try ask why/see if you could persuede another chance. Instead you gave him radio silence…oh his ego gunna bruise!
He will probably make some pathetic contact when his next potential 11 is relegated to a 7, and he will want to explain and hope theres no hard feelings…
You wont even care by then. I too flushed someone immediately when I sussed it wasnt going to work, and I listened to my gut and ACTED on it. Oh boy I am smiling and patting myself on the back for dodging that bullet. And I dodged another bullet after that and blocked the return of an AC/EU who wants to keep in touch but shag me. Pfft. Yes its a good feeling to know you have your own trust and back.
Yep.
This man spouting nonsense BS about how the woman before his eyeballs isn’t up to his hoity standards is just that – BS. If he was being truthful, he would not waste even a word explaining things to a “6” or whatever (ugh). Because if a lady were so abhorrent to his eyes, he would not spend a precious second enduring her. But, the women this guy tries to mind**** are attractive and beautiful to him at least – and very likely, to many others (and if not who even cares really – that’s like fretting about whether or not a shark finds your leg tasty).
This is probably another case of a deeply insecure person trying his best to undermine whatever good thing remains of the self image of the unfortunate lady in his cross hairs. Gross.
What interests me about the public 11 out of 10 rating thing is – why be attracted to men/women who actually blatently do this hyper form of judging???? Would it possibly be in the mistaken thought to feel validated? ie if this ‘choosy person chooses me I must be an 11 and better than all the others – lucky me.’ Not!
Was there someone else in our lives who judged also? Have we felt lacking in this judging competition before and want to prove them all wrong/right?
Would the public hyper judgment of others somehow be a way to distract you from the judges actual failings in reality and scare you off from making any critism towards them for fear of being judged lowly ourselves – again?
Sounds like a power/control play to me and I would run from anyone – male or female behaving publicly in this manner. I’m a minus a million and one. And proud of it. That’s all they need to know. Move on.
Abusers try to get their targets to focus on themselves: you’re ugly, you missed a spot scrubbing the floor, your cooking isn’t as good as my mom’s, my ex girlfriend was a saint and a supermodel… but’s just because the abuser is all to aware of his own personal failings. It’s a tactic to control the conversation in addition to undermining the target.
The antidote for when an abuser or invalidator is trying to get you to hyperfocus on yourself, is to expand your awareness and really notice what the abuser is doing and saying. They hate that.
I don’t know why they keep sniffing around after you aren’t seeing each other anymore. They don’t want to get back together with you but maybe they will get a shag, a shoulder to lean on or money, who knows! Maybe they are bored with no good prospect on the horizon for the moment. It’s weird but it happens a lot.
Hopefully he has gone for good but don’t be surprised if you do get a text or something out of the blue one day.
SIGH – I’ve had on my mind lately a way I should have reacted when I first started hanging out with my EU ex. He basically pursued me physically and didn’t want a relationship with anyone but this girl who had been cheating on her boyfriend of 10 years with my ex…yea, like that would work out. anyway – I remember we were making out and he took his pants off, and I kept saying No, I do not want you to take your pants off. No no no. I am not ready for that. He went off. Got mad at me because its just a penis….etc…I remember telling him that I was upset and he should not be talking to me like this…so we sat on the couch for a little bit in silence. I believe he apologized and said it would never happen again. I WISH I would have walked out. That should have been my red flag #1. He never did get mad again over him taking his pants off, but there were a few other times he got mad like that and belittled me. If I would have walked out, I may have saved myself a lot of heart break, but doubtful. I was curious – and he wanted to be with me physically. I hadn’t had that in a long time so I went with it. I had boundaries at the beginning – but he busted them all. One time he taped us having sex and I had no idea. I figured it out after because he was acting weird and wanted the lights on which never happened. When I asked if he taped us, he said maybe and then told me he did saying he wanted to see if his video recorder still worked. BS. But guess what? My boundaries were so busted that I didn’t even get mad. ugh
In the past, there were more than a few times that I felt I over reacted to someone’s behavior. Part of it was not understanding seemingly illogical behavior such as the guy disappearing right after telling me how glad he was to have me in his life, and a dude finally admitting to an overseas girlfriend but wanting to stay “friends”. I was ashamed afterward but then thought that while there were warning signs I shouldve seen (hot/cold behavior, ambiguity) I had the right to my rage as we all deserve to be treated in an up front manner. The last two times involved the AC and a fellow racer, both of whom pursued me then had girlfriends show up at public events that we were attending. Both times I said nothing, just walked away, head held high, then raged and ranted alone. It really doesn’t make any sense to confront because they’ll never understand your side of the story or they do and don’t care. Am now trying to focus upon not becoming emotionally attached/having expectations at the wrong time. Understanding that I will have to frog my sort of, kind of, quasi not-quite-a-relationship dude because after “the talk”, I understood he is putting all the blame on me, my highly active life, yet refusing to face his own physical issues and lack of affection. A case where having expectations, contemplating our future should’ve happened months ago. This past weekend was one of the big races here; next week, the races are over and the door slams shut for 9 looong months. Hung out with a fellow athlete who, at least at face value, would be perfect for me. Fit, attractive, educated and in a similar field to mine, liberal, hates mining, motorized recreation, etc. So different from the down and outers here. Hung out, had coffee, went to the race expo together, and I felt respected, sort of admired for who I am. Took care of him after the race, got fluids down him, carried gear, let him use the spare shower, had dinner. All very chaste, proper, then sent him on his way. Really miss him but realize that it was nothing but a good few days and now I need to kill my attraction for him before next weeks final race in the series. Spose I am really vulnerable with the overwhelming mess my dad left, dealing with Mr. Wounded Bird, the start of a school year I want no part of. Also tired of having to hold my sadness, rage inside all the time.
Noquay, I hope you don’t mind me saying….Mr. Wounded Bird sounds like he offers more drama and confusion than what he brings to the table ( emotionally AND physically ). If in his eyes you are ‘already’ to blame for HIS lack of stepping up to the plate and his emotional unavailability ( even from his own admitted past trauma) , compounded with the fact that he won’t contemplate his physical and emotional limitations with you as a barrier, is a big warning sign to me that he is unable to look deep enough into his own emotions and limitations to have an honest conversation (even with himself). Probably this is why he still acts like a wounded bird. A man you describe as a wounded bird does not seem like a person ready to be present in a real copiloted relationship. I have a new rule for myself. If I utter the words “Poor Guy” ( similar to wounded bird? ) in description of a potential mate to myself or my friends, then I have to sit back and question what it is I really want and if this person can genuinely be present or if it is hopeful thinking on my part, or even loneliness and wanting a partner that is tempting me….to settle. Not that he’s a bad person….but “wounded bird” sure seems like a warning sign to me. Are you ready to be his emotional savior? He is already giving you a preview how that will play out when his unhealed emotional traumas now get to get blamed on you not fixing him enough. Forgive me if I am too blunt or if I have any misinformation. Possibly, like me, you tend to be a bit guarded and he may sense that, which may add a grain of truth to his feeling like you weren’t completely available, but why would you be when he presented as a wounded sort? I’d say your being possibly guarded with him was your intuition correctly telling you to be careful with this one. Speaking for myself, meeting a man who is nice and not an AC, but possibly a very endearing Mr. unavailable seems less risky and the red flags are more easily rationalized away because they aren’t bad guys. Still, they are unavailable….nice or not.
Noquay and Selkie. Agreed on the wounded bird thing. My mother and aunt used to tell me, whenever you start to feeling sorry for a man it is time to go. I have done a pretty good job of not doing pitiful men. I see it as not being fair to me as it is a mans job to protect, provide, and problem solve. A man is the rock and the woman the soft place…and men know this as well. This man must know on a certain level that this is no way to present himself to a woman…unless he is looking for an emotional distraction/airbag. If he can do for himself, if he cant/not willing to do something about his emotional constipation, then blame you on top of it, what can he do for you Quay? What else are you expecting of this guy?
Selkie and ljsrmissy
Yep, you’re right. I was OK with keeping wounded bird around as a friend, probably my own fault as I wanted someone to have dinner with, go places with. I understand that my complete lack of local options has once again, led me to tolerate something I would not normally. However, having someone blame me for what is clearly a physical problem on his end, that took him a year to sit down and discuss, aint my fault. he says I am too busy for a real rship, yet although I am the one working full time, mourning the loss of my dad, dealing with dads financial mess, running a small farm, working on my home, training, volunteering, I am STILL available both emotionally and physically. Also true, when I see a problem such as this, I do withdraw emotionally as self protection. Nope, I am neither a therapist nor a Florence. I do not relish lifting up/fixing /rescuing anyone. The huge difference in the amount of stuff I get done vs. him may well be part of the issue. So do wish there were guys like the one I met this weekend here.
Whoa, this thread really hit a raw nerve! “Whenever you start feeling sorry for a man, it’s time to go”…I sure wish I’d heard that many years ago, as it may well have saved me from the mess I’m trying to save myself from now after 10 years of being married to a helpless man-child who is inexorably driving me crazy while driving me into bankruptcy and homelessness. I even had concerned friends offering to let me ship all my stuff home FOR FREE along with theirs (we were living in Tokyo at the time, and home for both of us is California), and I didn’t take that offer of salvation BECAUSE I WAS WORRIED ABOUT WHAT WOULD HAPPEN TO *HIM* IF *I* LEFT! Shit….
I can sure commiserate with being abused and shat on for for not knocking myself out hard enough and not snapping to it fast enough to spoon-feed “Mr. Special Needs” the perfect life off a golden plate he’s convinced he’s entitled to while he sits there not lifting a finger to help himself (or anyone), and am reminded of how early on in the relationship I would listen him describing the horrific abuse he was subjected to as a child and think, “How did he turn out so okay after that?”. Well, he didn’t. I can’t even “plead scarcity of available options” either…I just make astonishingly stupid decisions sometimes. Live and learn, right? Very best wishes to all who are struggling with things like this!
I dont often comment on here but this post is very poignant for me at the moment.
I have been sporadically dating a mr unavailable for longer than I care to admit, accepting crumbs etc etc. He has a son and talks a lot about his ex which used to upset me and i thought they were too close but he always convinced me otherwise until this weekend when I did some nosying on facebook, I found her profile and realised that they were actually all away together for the weekend. Him, her and his son! I then realised that a couple of times earlier this year when he told me he was taking his son away on his own she was actually with them!
Now the embarrassing overreaction. I texted him and told him that I knew, he then tried to lie by saying that she just happened to be there working which was bullshit. I then sent a string of abusive text messages, threatening revenge and using lots of profanities. He said that he had told me they spend time together and take vacations with their son together. This is completely untrue. He actually told me that she has mental problems and they don’t get on at all. He then gave me a long lecture by text about how happy and well adjusted his son is because his parents can be so adult about it all! I told him how upset i am by his lies and he hasn’t responded at all. I know i’m better off without him but it really hurts that he spends so much time with her and doesnt even care that he has hurt me. He says they are just friends but I really find it hard to believe that they take vacations together several times a year and are just friends.
I have felt embarassed and ashamed of my reaction but after reading this post I feel better!
Nicola,
You need to end this ASAP!
Not only has this guy been lying to you, but he is very attached to the ex – been there, done that.
There is no future with this man, as he keeps the ex around to keep you at a distance. Dump him, you have all the info you need!
Nicola
No more contact with this douche. you had the right to your anger, now bail and cut him off.
I have found that men are often fond of telling their new partners or dates that their ex partners have mental problems. This is VERY common, and very rarely the actual case. He doesn’t want you two to talk and find out how he REALLY was, or for you to find out that they’re still sleeping together.
I had a man claim (his drinking buddies thought it was a good idea to tell me) that I had mental issues, was obsessed with him and even stalking him. If fact, I never so much as Googled the guy. He was lying about me because I knew he was trying to cheat on his longtime girlfriend (with me among others). I guess he was desperate for his longtime live in girlfriend not to kick him out of their apartment in the most expensive city in the U.S. I also imagine he was desperate for his girlfriend and I NOT to ever compare notes. “She’s crazy! She might have a weapon!” Whatever. I was firm NC with him and one day found him looking in my windows! I still ignored him. THAT is NC.
Lundy Bancroft writes about this epidemic of men claiming that their ex is crazy, obsessed with them and never to be trusted. Really, if a healthy man that is worth knowing would try to make a good impression and NOT try to unite him in come follies a deux against his ex wife or whatever – a healthy man would know this drama would only reflect badly on him.
Let me rephrase: “I have found that UNSUITABLE men are fond of telling new partners that their ex is crazy…”
I wrote the ultimate email after being humiliated time and time again for over four years. Did it make me feel better….no. I felt horrible because I just don’t hurt other people, regardless of how many times he has hurt me. So I ended up apologizing to him, which was humiliating as well. And as awful as the email was, it didn’t faze him. He still sent the text crumbs stating that he thinks about me all the time, etc. Really? So I guess you really can’t offend a narc. However, I did learn something…..write the email but don’t send it.
Rewind, what you say about the truth not fazing the ACs, I gotta say that is the harsh reality that really hurts me that I don’t want to face or acknowledge.
You tell them what you feel and they don’t change one iota of behavior. You tell them to go away and they don’t change one iota of behavior.
They are clearly saying “I don’t care what you think. I don’t care how you feel. I don’t care about anything but getting what I want out of this. I don’t listen and I don’t change. I will keep going after you because you are like an ATM of attention, I just go to get what I need. I don’t care if you’re closed because one day you will be open. You think I am coming back because I care. Hah! I’m just coming back because you’re open.”
The callousness of the AC fills me with pain. Almost frightens me. To think I cared about a person who really NEVER cared for me.
We are fragile….and yes, the callousness amazes me over and over again. But at the end of the day, I know who I am. I lost myself when I was with him. No more!!! And yes….it’s still painful, but not nearly as bad as going round and round the circle for four years.
Elgie R.
It is truly eye opening, and scary to see how filthy ‘the game’ is. I believe that guys after a certain age know whether they want/are ready for a relationship/commitment in general and whether they want it with a certain woman in particular a head of time. I believe guys know when the are broke, cripple, crazy, and EU. However, these guys like all guys have a need for penis and ego strokes…and they will take that from ANY women whether he likes her or not. A man will know that he ultimately wants a slim blonde under 30 with no kids, but he will settle for a brunette, not so slim, 30+ single mom to feed the need for a genital and ego stroke. Meanwhile, this brunette woman is thinking since he comes around, sleeps with her, goes out with her, and hangs with her kid, that means he is at least seeing about the possibility of having a future together where this man already decided when he saw her she was a temp.
“They are clearly saying “I don’t care what you think. I don’t care how you feel. I don’t care about anything but getting what I want out of this. I don’t listen and I don’t change. I will keep going after you because you are like an ATM of attention, I just go to get what I need. I don’t care if you’re closed because one day you will be open. You think I am coming back because I care. Hah! I’m just coming back because you’re open.”
Spot on. Their exclusive, constant focus on getting their own needs met is shark-like.
Rewind,
I know what you mean! I am the same way. I could have cussed the AC out with all the pain he caused me but unlike him, I don’t get joy out of hurting people. Even though he deserved to be cussed out. This is when you know it’s time to leave because if you are a genuine nice person, you need to walk away from people who try to turn you into something your not. At the end of the day, I just opted out of the madness and left him to feel whatever emotions he chose that day.
I love your statement “At the end of the day, I just opted out of the madness and left him to feel whatever emotions he chose that day.” My words in the email were wasted words. I believe his humiliations were intentional and calculated…so why would he worry about me telling him how awful he is. He was probably smiling the entire time he was reading my email….just as he did when he would text me to come over for sex at midnight and I obeyed. Crazy making…but no more. I’m opting to love ME.
Good deal to simply opt out. They already know what they said and did was crappy….and that’s why they said and did it!
The email didn’t faze him because …drumroll… the email itself was major narc supply. That feeling and emotion that you put into that email let him know how much of an impact he had on you. Ego stroke much. ALL attention is good attention in their eyes.
You are so correct. That’s why I regretted sending it, and sure enough….he acted like nothing had happened. In retrospect, I did nothing but feed his ego that he had destroyed my heart. But wait….let me continue to send crumbs so you will fall in love again so I can destroy your heart again. Nope….it took awhile but I figured out I care more about my heart than he ever will!!!]
It’s sooo twisted. To put things in perspective: recall the last time someone had romantic interest in you and you didn’t return the feeling. No, you felt bad for the guy and certainly didn’t laugh about it with your friends (unless he really stepped over the line), right? But these EU narcissistic types ENJOY knowing that they’ve caused you pain, because in their warped mind it means they exist, they matter on some very basic level. So sick.
Thanks for your comments guys. I won’t be having anything else to do with him, I dont think any woman could date a man who takes his ex on vacation!!! I think he is done with me anyway as he has either blocked me or is completely ignoring me cos he thought Id gone psycho lol. Either way i am hurt but dont want anything to do with him. I do regret sending the messages and wish I had been more dignified but then again he deserved it!
Nicola, did your gut tell you the entire time he was not “right” from the get go?
I had that sinking feeling for a few months (red flags) ate crumbs given to me from this EU guy and was quite shocked after having a lovely romantic dinner (and romance) on a Tuesday that on Sunday 5 days later… “The Universe” (I believe) sent me to another part of the beach I usually do not go to
(a HUGE beach! miles long!) but lo and behold there he was walking RIGHT NEXT TO ME! He almost fell over when he saw me! of course he was with another woman! I said I’m alone can I join you and “your friend”? He said “sorry no” I said a “few things” but I kept my cool for the most part.
He said “you’re upset, I will call you later tonight to explain”.
He did call but I did not answer as I was too upset. Who wouldn’t be?
I sat on it and let it brew for a few days until I finally exploded via text. You see, I kept it all bottled in all of those months and I’m not a quiet girl… but I didn’t want to “scare him away” with loads of questions, which now looking back were valid questions when getting to know someone. I was pretty much in the dark with this guy. And that is my fault.
At one point he said he was “very private” and that is when I should have moved on. By the way I’m 45 he is 48.
He replied to my text: “You were too quick to send that text without allowing him to explain himself”
Explain what? If you were a man with integrity you would have been with me at the beach in the first place!
I believe that I was sent to that exact spot on the beach at that moment in time so that I wouldn’t continue being with someone that truly had no interest in me except for an ego stroke, a little entertainment & romance all on his terms.
Nat truly hits the nail on the head every time with all of it!
I did have remorse about my explosive text, I didn’t want to come off as “unstable”. I really wanted to walk away quietly, but in reality it wasn’t that bad, I needed to be heard.
I could of “really went off on him” (I am a New Yorker!) But the worst thing I called him was a player, an enigma and a wolf in sheep’s clothing!
Another.Lesson.Learned!
My new mantra: Pay attention to the red flags, trust your gut and know better for “next time”. Thank You Natalie!
By the way…You cant make this crap up! ha ha ha
I am trying to think what reaction I should be having after my ex EU contacted me by text after 4 months of no contact. This is a 2nd time he is breaking no contact in 7 months. Just asking how I am doing. I haven’t responded and don’t think I will. I don’t hate him and don’t have any negative feelings anymore except for occasional ” I miss him”. I know I am not over him yet and not indifferent. Although I made a lot of progress I still need few months or more to get over him completely. I am not over him because I know I don’t want to know he is dating and I can’t be his friend right now or perhaps ever. I am working on forgiving him and myself. I feel this contact is intrusion on my healing process. This month I started feeling that I am finally over him. And of course he reappeared and I am going through a cycle of all the emotions all over again.
Not sure what is the right way to react here. Tell him to leave me alone because I can’t heal so quickly and move on yet? Or just be silent. I started rereading the rules of no contact, but can’t seem to find the answer to what to do. It has been long enough since after our breakup, but yet I don’t see what’s the point getting in touch.
I don’t want be back with him, but I am not over him either. In the middle. I need to stay silent and not react to the text. Lazy communication. If he had called, I might have responded.
Why do these men come back and text out of the blue like nothing happened? I think in his case is because he wants to appear a nice guy. Kind and caring. He never admitted but he must realize somewhere deep inside the hurt he caused. People here on the board perhaps remember my story. I don’t want to repeat it here.
I guess I have to stay no contact, without worrying that I am hurting his feelings and being a bitch. I am doing it for myself.
If I do respond, maybe it will help me move on even more, facing the reality of his moving on a long time ago.
In either case: it is inconsiderate and rude to disturb someone’s healing process. The rule should be at least a year of NC for a serious long-term relationship especially if something else hurtful and tragic happened during the relationship.
Sofia
Do not reply. Not replying is saying that you want to be left alone with your actions.
If you reply, you may end up engaging in a conversation with him about why you want to be left alone etc. The last thing you want to do is feel like you have to explain your actions or choices to him.
Whenever my ex AC contacts me. I delete the message instantly and depending on how vulnerable I feel, I also delete his number. When and if you are ready to have this person in your life then you can pick up the phone and contact them. You don’t need to engage with them and welcome them back in, even at the smallest level, just because they sent a text.
Stay strong!
Jane, thank you for your advice. As you can read in my responses to others, I responded with a short message.
I have resolved now to go a full NC. I have no need for him in my life anymore even for a friendship. Actually his contacting me and me responding, reminded me and proved it again, if I was not 100% sure, that he is not worth a second of my time.
Perhaps like others here suggest we need to block their number or change our phone number.
I don’t want even to go through deleting of a text action.
I want to never get any contact from him again in any form or shape.
Finally.
I don’t even want to think and analyze why ACs do that. A normal guy either disappears for good with respect for your boundaries or after some time goes by, actually calls and is interested in how you are doing, how is your health, children, animals, job, whatever. he is not just sniffing and disappearing once you acknowledge him. And I thought he was not an AC!!! I learned something new today!! The interesting thing is though back then, before the breakup and the BR, I would think that this is normal: he texted after hurting me , I responded being nice, and he disappeared. I would kill myself over how I am not good enough. Now, I just laugh at it. He must be kidding me. Too funny. I am not even upset. 🙂
Sofia,
There will be no temptation if you block.
Cut the unnecessary drama from your life!
Hi MissGo
Yes my gut did tell me all along that something wasn’t right but I don’t think I expected him to be that close to his ex without telling me. I wonder now if actually they are in some kind of relationship although she lives with her mum and dad and her son and he lives alone but they have to be more than friends to share vacations all the time. Jealousy eats me up sometimes but then I wonder why cos I don’t want him now I have realised just how many lies he has told.
Allison, thank you. I am doing fine already (yay for quick recovery it shows I have progressed a lot in the last 7 months:)!!, but it’s a good idea to block the phone number or change my number. No temptation to read the text and act upon it even if formal and friendly, “Hi, all is fine.”
I had the drama in my head for two days straight and all of sudden realized today, “Wait a second, it’s old Me. I used to have my entire life like this. Drama, drama drama connected to a man’s behavior or a lack of.” And I laughed and released the short lasting stress and brushed it off. I am so free from him and my past. Thank you, Allison and everyone else who responded to me. I am overwhelmed by so many responses. Such caring, kind people you all are:) I remember the support I got in February-March when I just got here first. It was unbelievable. Thank you all!
Sofia,
Just don’t respond! They eventually get the message and believe me they know exactly why you don’t want to talk to them. They know they hurt you, they just don’t care. It’s all about their feelings not yours. Personally, if I were you I would never call him. It’s just giving attention he does not deserve. Just move on and good luck
Stephanie, I made a mistake and responded. I wrote to ReadyForChange below, in detail. Last time. It’s ok. The main thing I feel I don’t even care he didn’t respond. Just shows his true colors. Actually helps to remind myself who he really is. Doesn’t set me back. My self-esteem intact. I am very strong and believe in myself. Thank you for your kind words. Yes, NC is the best way and now I am determined 100%. Will change my phone number (for other ACs too). Blocking – I have to pay for the service I think. They are not worth it. The good thing I am proud of myself that I never even once contacted him first since the breakup 7months ago, and responded only twice, to his first breaking NC back 4 months ago and now his second time. I have grown a lot. I gave in to this weakness. But it’s ok. I am even stronger now. I was even laughing at this today. How could I love a person like this who can’t even pick up a phone and call to inquire about my life and how I have been if one “cares” like he said he did. It’s pathetic. I feel sorry for him. Unhappy man. Lost soul. Selfish, immature. Incapable of love, empathy, and being vulnerable and feeling others’ feelings.
Sofia,
You are strong! We all have fallen off the wagon. I saw my AC after going NC and I am glad I did because it made me truly realize I did not want him. To this day, I still don’t know why I saw him because I didn’t even like him anymore!
It’s funny because I still remember what he said to me when he called trying to hook me back in because he knew my feelings had change. He said “I figure since I am feeling this way, it must mean something”. No mention of my feelings or the pain he caused me, no apologies for the way he discarded me for somebody else, it was all about HIS feelings.
Despite the fact that he was an a#$hole narcissist, I wasn’t cruel or mean to him because he just wanted to get a reaction, I just just ignored him and was indifferent and eventually he went away and left me alone. It will get better!!
Stephanie, I think our stories are similar. My AC has not even called or invited to meet, but he did respond today. Saying that he didn’t want to lose contact with me and I am important to him. I remain silent to this because I don’t know what to say. There is nothing to say. If I am important – call and inquire how I am doing. But I don’t need that anyway, that’s fine.
I see what you are saying. I know somehow already, if I were to meet him now, his AC face and habits, I might even get a kick and arousal and want to sleep with him one more time, maybe, but what I am feeling is that the overall feeling is that of disgust. How can I emotionally want to be with this person. Physically there could be one more chance, maybe. But because he ruined my trust, I know now that if I am to see him, I will question myself why I ever wanted him even not that long time ago. Actually, I am taking my words back. Perhaps, if I do see him in person now, I wouldn’t even want him for sex. I changed a lot and my perception of him changed although he has not. That’s why sometimes I think breaking NC (after quite a long time 6 months +) and meeting with them will show you that you don’t even want him anymore. My friend suggested, “Go ahead, see for yourself, and you will see for the last time. It will be your last time.” I see her point now. It’s when we see them without the rose-tinted glasses on. perhaps if he invites me, I might see him. And will leave as quickly as I came. But I don’t need that invitation. I already know I can’t sleep with him that one more time, let along, develop a meaningful conversation. He is non-existent to me. As a body or a person.
His own making.
They ruin their own ground.
We made mistakes too.
Willing both want to work on it, being changed after 6+ months, it might work. But are they willing too? It can’t be just us. It has to be both. And that never happens with ACs. We , women, work on our feeling and emotions. Men don’t. Even when both EUs or ACs , women are better at working out their own issues. Men, especially ACs or EUs , cant’. So we move on, they are typically stuck with the next victim.
My heart goes out to her.
Stephanie, that’s right! I notice this note about “my feeling, to me, my needs.” He is not even concerned what I have been through these months. He is saying “me, to me, for me.” He is not only EU and AC, he might be Narc. No wonder. Calvin Klein model like and knowing it. Poor soul.
Sofia, sounds like you are just aching for a reason to be in touch with your old AC. You don’t need to “prove” you are a “good person” to him.
If you REALLY want it to be over, stay NC. You don’t need to show him you have manners and a good upbringing. You don’t need to give him the courtesy that you’d give anyone else. He’s not “anyone else”. He’s an AC who loves to play with your heart.
You do understand that these ACs are playing with our hearts, right? You ever watch the professional anglers – meaning fisherman? They dangle their pretty baits, and when they hook the fish, they give it “play”. They let it “run”…which means the catch swims away but is on the hook….then the angler reels it back in…lets it run some more….reels it back in. They continue this until the catch tires out.
The fun for the angler is the “chase”.
When we dump these ACs, we inadvertently peak their interest, because now they have to “chase”. They live for the chase! I guarantee that every one of our ACs has a whole passel of already caught fish to choose from, but the one that interests them most is the one that’s trying to get away. It’s a sporting interest, not an emotional ‘love care trust and respect ‘ interest.
Sad but true.
Again – If you REALLY want it to be over, stay NC. Again, not judging. I’m living the same pain.
sorry…”pique” their interest….not illiterate, just fed up…
BOOM.BANG.POW MISS ELGIE! It’s about the ‘win’…not what they are winning. Its an ego boost to know that that they can treat a woman however, dump her (if he ever ‘committed’ to her), walk away for however many days, weeks, months, years, drop back in with a text of all things, and still command that woman’s attention.
Yes, this is right. They feel they can come back whenever they want to. Yet with no real intentions, whether friendship or reconciliation. Now I know the difference between an AC and non-AC. Rings the bell now. 8 months after the breakup.
Elgie, I’m not glad that this is happening to many, many people all over the world but yet I am glad that I’m not alone if that makes sense.
I had a cat who had that playful hunting instinct, but only the playful part. Some days I feel like the poor spider she’d swish around in her mouth and spit out – minus one leg each time. The pitiful thing would pull himself along on his remaining limbs trying to get away, but she never would properly put it out of its misery. Each time it began to scooch away, that primal impulse to capture was fired up again.
You’re right Elgie – this is a cruel imitation of love. It’s really catch and discard.
Elgie R., thank you for your honest and truthful advice. I like your example with fishermen. Well, too late, I responded; however, now I am resolved to never respond again. I guess I needed his 2nd time breaking NC to finally have had it.
It’s ok. The best thing what I am finding out is that it doesn’t bother me. The bad thing I might made him feel good, but that’s fine, let him caress his little loveless ego for a bit. It will wear off soon and he will be fishing again.
I do agree with you on all points.
One thing I still can’t fathom though is how these people love. Can they even love? No. It’s not possible. I think they get fascinated by someone, court them, date them, maybe in a very proper, consistent, reliable way (like this EU/AC did with me which got me very confused), and then, they get bored and dump the women after 3-6 months. On to the next.
I would like to be sorry for them (the ACs), but I can’t be. I can’t even fathom their behavior, so I can’t even start feeling sorry for them.
It’s really scary stuff. To me it’s psycopathic. There are no empathy and consideration. They are clueless.
But why should we get surprised really. Look at this world: wars, killers, rapists, child abusers, emotional abusers, cheaters, all kinds of unthinkable behaviors.
So why should we even be surprised at the “innocent” behaviors of these ACs…
Sometimes when I think about this all I really just want to never ever open or trust anyone at all anymore: men I mean.
Anyway, I am feeling fine. And I don’t regret I responded. It doesn’t matter. Now I do know I have moved on. Even if I responded. I like my reaction. I don’t care.
What you describe also applies to the way a cat tortures a small animal after it’s caught one. Just a thought.
Good description. I agree. Great thought.
We all process hurt differently. I chose to see my ex EU after 6months apart, Yes a part of me wanted to see what he was up to and the other wanted to prove I was over the bitterness. It actually worked to my benefit because sitting across the table from him helped me realize I wasnt even that into him in the first place and life goes on. I have been seeing a relationship coach as well so that has helped me rebuild my mindset. Im not saying break NC but Im saying if you feel a certain action will give you release then do so but ensure that you understand your motivations and be willing to accept the consequences.
Good Luck
Dear Sofia,
I think you are exactly right, he just wants to feel good about himself. I have been in a very similar situation. I did not reply to messages. It helped me to quickly get back to where I had managed to arrive before he came back in touch. Do what is right by you; it seems to me that you need silence right now, so just honour that.
ReadyForChange:
I did reply:(. With 3 words basically. But it was enough to acknowledge he exists for me still. It’s okay, I won’t be killing myself over it and it’s not pulling me back to square one. I have progressed very far. I won’t beat myself up and am not starting from zero. I am getting up and moving on stronger than before. I forgive myself. It’s ok. I will not respond the third time if he ever contacts me again. And I won’t even know whether he contacts me again. This time I am blocking his number or changing my phone number. The latter will be better to get rid of other lurking exes, who regularly come sniffing. The funny thing is that he wanted to see how I am doing and hasn’t said anything to my text. No word after my response. However, if back then I would lose my sleep over it, now I really don’t care. I was trying to feel why I needed to respond. Is it because I still have a hope but hide it from myself? No. I don’t want to be with him. I couldn’t after what had happened. Then why? Not to appear mean? No. Not that. I guess because he was dear to me and I thought it’s okay to say “Hi, I am fine and what about you.” You would think, a person who wants to reestablish a contact as a friend, possibly, and initiates a contact , goes further and ask if he can call, and inquire more about my life. But no – disappearance. I was laughing to myself actually today. I had thought he was a nice EU guy. Now, I see he is an AC classic case!!! Actually I am glad he contacted and I responded because it proves to me even more (in case I forgot and don’t have enough evidence) that he is a classic AC. To show up for an ego stroke and get a proof that I am still there if he needs me and now he is gone. The thing is I don’t want to be friends with him. I am not ready yet, but I don’t hate him either. That’s why I responded. I guess I was fairly neutral when I responded. I had nostalgia and all the emotions of course, but I didn’t expect anything and checked with myself before I responded whether I had any hopes or projections, like Nat describes very well in her articles. I made sure that before I respond I clearly know I don’t want to get back with him. It was a way to respond to someone I used to know and I thought it was ok. Well, it showed the extent of his interest and what I meant to him. So on the one hand I regret I responded, on the other it is good. Reminded me and revealed actually even more his true nature. That’s he can’t even try to be a friend. Classic AC! So I am fine. I have had a feeling of being violated and disturbed in the past couple days, but I know I will pick myself up and won’t punish myself for doing this. I am a human and we are weak and I cared for him a lot. More than anything else, Nat’s site and all the lovely and kind people, have helped me to learn how to love myself, forgive myself, and believe in myself. I forgive myself for this misstep. It’s okay. Now I know better. This won’t happen the 3rd time. Like quitting cigs, it takes couple or more tries sometimes. Thank you, ReadyForChange.
That is some great learning, Sofia!
I am only slowly starting to be compassionate and forgiving towards myself, and it is the most liberating thing. You are well ahead of me in your journey, just keep going, one step at a time 🙂
ReadyForChange:
Thank you:) I am still learning obviously. A misstep here and there. But I am much better than 8-4 months ago. Even than 2 months ago. Work in progress. My most recent mistake I quickly recognized but forgave myself and moving on fast and healthily. I will be fine. I know what I did wrong and know how to correct it. The healing is certainly a process!
Sofia,
You can find closure on your own; I wouldn’t contact this guy.
Keep putting yourself first, and BLOCK HIM.
You are doing great, keep up the good work, keep focusing on your goals, and keeping moving forward.
And, read these posts by Natalie: :o)
https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/relationship-insanity-understanding-why-you-feel-tempted-to-go-back-and-repeat-your-pattern-with-your-pain-source/
https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/suck-it-and-see-to-kill-off-curiosity-and-get-out-of-relationship-groundhog-day/
https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/getting-closure-on-closure-we-cannot-always-get-all-of-the-answers/
Sofia, read this one as well.
https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/getting-closure-on-closure-we-cannot-always-get-all-of-the-answers/
Mirror of my Faces,
Even though I responded, it’s ok. I have no reaction anymore. I am NC now and getting either a new phone number or blocking his number. I still need to read these articles to keep me strong and wise. Thank you so much for finding these and sharing. 🙂
Mirror of My Faces,
Wow, wow and wow. Exactly about my situation. I temporarily fell off the wagon because I tried to suck it and see. What a great article. I will read and reread. I don’t think I have read this one before. Probably skipped because I had not been ready for it yet at that time. It is so relevant to what just happened. I am so happy to see that I burned my hand and am back to NC firm on the ground. No turning back. I feel I got a final closure with myself now!! The first article is great too. Exactly what I needed!! Thank you!!
Sofia
Don’t reply to anything he sends to you.
He will get the message eventually that you want to be left alone.
Can you block his number/s on your phone? My new phone can send texts to a spam folder and I haven’t been bothered by any communications for about 4 months from the AC. He’s blocked everywhere and it gives me peace of mind knowing I’m finally free from phone calls, emails and texts. Out of sight, out of mind, it makes life so much easier.
Pauline, I should have done that. Now I so much regret that I didn’t block him immediately after the breakup or the 1st time he contacted me. I am doing it now. Lesson learned. Thank you for the idea. That’s the only way to go, even if they contact you every 6 months or so, still. We don’t need that interruption.
Some of it could be that he is trying to use your willingness to respond as some sort of affirmation that he is not a bad guy. Even if that is the case, you are still being used and he is using your willingness to respond in order to feel relieved about HIMSELF. Lazily at that. He couldn’t even be bothered to call. Chances are he has ran through the ego feed supply that he has been occupying himself with since parting ways with you. He could be ‘checking his traps’ to see if you and your ‘services’ are available to him. I will echo the sentiment of Elgie, don’t worry about what he will think of you because honestly, all things considered, how worried could he have been about what you thought of him?
ljsrmissy,
That’s what unbelievable. How can people be so selfish and users? I guess I still can’t believe that he is that bad. Still keep hoping some nice qualities are there. Obviously not. I fell asleep crying last night a lot. Great reaction and release actually. No holding in. For the first time after couple months not crying about him. I cried because I felt violated. I felt my soul was raped. I was like a child who was told directly into her face by someone, “I don’t care about being friends with you. I just said ‘Hi.'” The strange thing I could not be friends with him now anyway. But what I was thinking, naive me, is that after 7 months go by that he thought I was ready to exchange a conversation, which he was waiting for according to his intention after the breakup and the 1st contact. He wanted me to get better so that we could possibly become friends. At that point I said “no,” and I am still not ready or even want to. But what I thought that he was wanting to ask how I am doing. So I gave him a chance. To start speaking with me. It’s mind blowing how one is close to you for a year, and never even cares about any of the details of my life that we used to talk about daily. And telling me during the breakup that he wants to be friends, doesn’t want to lose me, and that I am very important to him. I thought he would respond to me by asking questions about my life and wanting to call. I guess there is a part that I miss him. I don’t want him anymore, but it’s missing someone you used to know. But even then, he is not the person to miss. What I was waiting for? Validation? Trying to think. No. Now, I think I opened up to him again, trusting again, that he cares and wants to know how I am besides superficial, “Hi.” Well, I burned my hand really bad. Really really bad. I felt my trust was so violated again. I was still vulnerable replying to him I see it now. But the good thing I know enough time has gone by, I won’t think about it too long. Will start shifting my thoughts today. I am upset I wasted 2 days on this accident and my mistake instead of doing things that I do with my life, I wasted on him two days with my thoughts and actions. People told me not to respond and I didn’t listen. I couldn’t help. I thought we could be friendly by phone at least for now. I didn’t hate him anymore, but now I do. I hope this will go away fast. He doesn’t deserve so much energy from me and thought. I truly hated him last night for violating my boundaries and my trust again. What I did realize is though I must have been insane to fall in love with a person like that. Immature, selfish, lack of empathy, not able to love or at least, empathize with others. Now I have reached the point where I don’t care a bit what he thinks of me that I think of him (there was some of it, I have to admit). I am moving on. Mainly I am mad that I let him laugh at me. I think he just laughed at me. I feel such an idiot. Ladies, please don’t respond to them. Ever. Even after 7 months or a year. Even if you think and might be ready for a friendly conversation: They don’t want even that!!! if you don’t want him anymore and are not even hoping for anything anymore, but are ready to chat a bit about life, they might not respond and you will be left very hurt. I can’t believe that all it was , was an ego stroke. He was not like that during the relationship. Now, Nat’s articles make more and more sense that he is an AC after all. People who want to reconnect don’t do this kind of stuff, don’t play with others’ feelings. I am though not letting this controlling me anymore. I control and move forward because he is not worthy to be my friend. Which I was somewhat considering maybe, but was not sure or ready. Now I see he is not. A person who reaches out to be a friend follows up with more questions and a phone call. What a low, disgusting behavior. That was another revelation to me. I learned something new about him. I am so happy he is out of my life. Thank you all for support and thank you, ljsrmissy.
Oh, Sofia. I know it hurts a lot. I think maybe…somewhere inside…ACs have some feelings…they like some things about us. But ACs live in a somewhat sociopathic universe…a “use or be used’ world, IMO.
I read the posts left for you by Mirror…I needed to read them too cuz AC upped the content of his texting…and for a moment I thought about responding. It is hard not to drift into fantasy when we are so predisposed to making crumbs seem like a whole loaf. AC suddenly appearing to want to “give” pleasure. it’s a mirage. He is giving to “get”. He misses me on the booty call roster.
I immediately replayed in my mind what my life feels like when AC is in it… the emptiness, the inevitability of his blowing cold after a few good times… yikes!… don’t want that . I realized responding would add fuel to a fire I am dousing in myself.
I deleted his text. It’s been quiet since I did not jump at his latest offer of sex.
I may never be part of a loving couple, but ……so what? Look around. Good coupledom is hard to find. I gotta find other areas to get my sense of belonging and contribution and meaning and satisfaction.
Moving on – I dumped the EUM single guy I was seeing by calling him on the phone and it was no better, reaction-wise. He had no reaction. Just an OK and an emotionless goodbye. So I am not sure texting is worse than a phone call. It all depends on if you are a person who feels a need to discuss the “whys”.
Saying that we attract these ACs and EUs because of our own EU….?…I don’t think I am EU.. I am very circumspect, and I run away from men who seem to want me as their entertainment package, the thing they do after work, the place they go to on the weekends, the person they bring to family gatherings.
I need mental stimulation. ACs do keep our minds busy, but there must be a better way.
In my thirties I worked with a 50-yearold woman who was a swinging divorcee…happy with her job, her life, her little dog, and her Miata. She told me her ex once complained that she “Only wanted him around when she felt like it.” I can relate to that.
Elgie R:
I was responding to the last message at first. Well, he did respond to me by saying I am important and he wants to stay in touch. I didn’t respond. I don’t know what to say. There is nothing to say anymore. If he wants friendship, sure, he can try, but pick up the phone, try to meet. Again, right now, I don’t want any of that anyway.
I won’t respond anymore. If I am important to you – call me. Ask about my life: my child, my job, my activities, what’s new. If someone is important to me, I not only call, I want to see them, talk to them, feel their presence. I want to feel I am in their life and am doing something for them, helping, listening, being a friend.
I see what you are saying. ACs must have feelings… They do, but what I think happens, as soon as they start feeling strong feelings, which will potentially bound them to commitment, they start running. that’s why breakups happen, that’s why unexpected breakage of NC happen. They want to keep in touch with us. I am still a naive fool, perhaps, hoping and giving them benefit of a doubt that they do have a heart, and yes, they do, so they contact us. They care about us in a way, but it’s not enough for a normal relationship, where a reciprocal care and trust and respect and love are expected and exchanged naturally. They can’t do it because that would mean abandoning their freedom. Losing their control over their fates (imagined lost of control, like we would control them, it’s not true, I was always for space time for him and myself and clearly expressed that every time); like he would lose other options (but guess what that girl will loose her excitement streak in 3-6 months and you are back to square one. She is just a human with her pluses and minuses, and she is not the One again, oops.). I think they must think they are some messengers of the Cosmos and Universe. They can’t be bound to one person. They have to be free.
I truly don’t know anymore what’s going on in the minds of these people. The ex AC of mine is an intelligent and responsible one. Great career, education. Reliable, organized, good job. But in the relationship department he is like a little toddler: licking and salivating on a new toy and chewing it up first 2 days (read 2-3 months for grown up ACs) and then, he dumps that toy and no longer needs it. He picks up another one. Chews on that one. Then he is bored again. Looking for the previous one. And in circles. I should not bring up the toddler example. Toddlers have more heart and wisdom than ACs.
I don’t know anymore. I read so many stories here and mine shows that after we hit 35+ or so , that’s it. There is no more hope.
Luckily, I guess I should say that, I was married before and have a child. I can’t imagine being in my mid 30-40s wanting a family. There is no one out there. Sorry to sound a bit negative, but the truth is for a marriage and a relationship nearing your 40s as a woman… It’s nearly impossible.
I do hope someone will find the One they deserve. Everyone is worth it. No doubt.
Elgie R:
Couple more points to add: yes, those who are like a couple, you can’t assume they are happy. Being single or with someone doesn’t guarantee you happiness.
In the 8 months of singledom, to me it boils down to this (which I brought up the subject before). I have already found the ways to be happy. I am living a full life. The problem that might occur with young and women up until when desire is diminishing, how do you deal with desire for sex. If your life is fulfilled with your children if you have any, job, hobbies, friends, why you need a man then? If you meet a good person, great. But if you don’t and you have a craving libido? What do you do? I decided that 8 months post last time having sex with the AC (breakup sex, I know., my idea too…); I have developed into a quite a different person. I used to think it was okay to have casual sex and it was fun. Now I am not even interested in sex unless it’s a part of growing or established serious relationship. That answered my question, so my libido is subdued. So perhaps, as we grow and become better and loving to ourselves, we can control our libidos and vaginas as well. Give them some so much needed self-esteem. They are a prize too. For a special person only. My thoughts – about a temporary state of singledom.
It’s ok.
On thing that has helped me has been the ability to, bit by bit, learn to tell myself the often times nauseating, knee buckling truth when it comes to these type of guys and situations. I think that just like women fish for compliments, guys can fish for ego strokes as well. It pays for all of us a woman (and men) to listen to what the other party does. Yes, LISTEN TO WHAT THEY DO. Whatever he said was a moot point if this man hasn’t come to actually see, speak, and spend quality time with you and I don’t mean just coming to spend quality time with your vajayjay. However, guys will give that “I want to be friends’ line to keep some sort of ‘just in case of emergency’ and ‘if all else fails’ hook in us. Its all about making sure they never get too low on ‘inventory’ ya know. Other than that we know guys are not pining for female ‘friends’ like that… puhleeze. I have been there…trust me. In undergrad I was dating this guy. I remember thinking to myself that I shouldn’t be made to feel like a dummy for choosing to actually believe he was going to do what he said he was going to do. I remember time after time him calling and asking me what I was doing that day, I remember getting too giddy because I though he was going to ask if I wanted to do something with him, and I remember time after time feeling dumb and duped when he was basically say ‘ok, cool, well me and my friends going to be doing this and that tonight and I was just calling to see what you were getting into tonight’. There are no words to articulate how that made me feel. Back then, I served as his ego dildo and I didn’t realize it until I decided to leave that situation. Trust me, I did the whole thinking that since x amount of days, weeks, months have past, surely he has grew the hell up and has come to see what he has missed. Been there, done that. I was damned it he was going to use me as a personal ego dildo again. I saw that’s what he wanted. He just wanted that ‘fix’ through me paying him any sort of attention. You know what helped me? Laying in bet at night, before I go to sleep, a literally telling the Lord all about it. I don’t know what religion/faith you are. If you don’t have one, just lay on your back with the lights out, and tell the universe/your higher power all about it! And let the tears flow! They are there for a reason. It lets you know that you are still human. Unfortunately you ran into a character who is willing to use and abuse your humanity for his selfish gain.
ljsrmissy:
I have been thinking a lot in the past couple days, reading here, and listening the advice of my friends. I agree with you. They need attention and ego stroke. That’s it. “Ego dildo” – that’s awesome!!:). It is kind of like back when we were insecure, we were fishing for validation from men. While we have grown up, ACs have not.
That’s what I have been doing throughout my breakup recovery. Praying to God to give me strength to go through it with dignity and respect for myself and eventually forgiving and letting him go. I had been reaching this point until he interrupted my healing process. Well, it’s a slight step back. I am getting better already. In the past 2-3 nights I have been falling asleep crying and with mixed emotions about him. Seems I cycled fast through shock, denial, bargaining, anger, depression, acceptance in the matter of 2 days all over again. I pray God to give me direction, guidance, and mostly strength to rise again from this useless pit of AC reflection and move on even stronger.
Faith has been my support throughout all the pain and healing. In fact, AC made me turn to God. Thank you, AC, for changing my life for so much better. He was an avid atheist, laughing at the “ominous bearded dude in the sky” and being afraid of crosses or ridiculing them. No comments there.
So, I am right there with you, ljsrmissy. I know how it feels. The help and support and relief you are feeling after these private conversations and tears are overwhelming and healing.
I do need to change the phone number. This weekend will do, so that I have time to notify all the people.
Thank you for sharing.
ljsrmissy, reading your comment made me break down. I was used by someone for his own selfish gain, and that hurts, because I have to acknowledge that I meant nothing more than that.
Last fall I was future faked and played the cat/mouse game for 5 months. His excuse – we live too far apart. If only we didn’t live so far apart, he would marry me. He told me all kinds of things that we would do, if we didn’t live so far apart. He lives a 1.5 hour drive away. Granted, we each have shared custody of our kids and can’t uproot them for another 10 years or so, so maybe the distance thing is valid. But, if he was genuine about his feelings for me, I believe he would have tried to make it work. The “connection” that he felt, he said, was so valuable, that he didn’t want to lose me from his life. But he didn’t want to make sacrifices either? I spent months confused. He played cat and mouse until he found someone else and moved on.
About a month ago we gave it another shot. Or should I say, I gave it another shot. He used me as an ego booster and a lay. He was in between romances. I was there. I welcomed him with open arms. I believed his words – that he loved me so much and didn’t want to lose me from his life. He just didn’t know what to do about the distance. If only I lived closer. As soon as the sheets cooled and he knew that I would give it 100%, he pulled away. I confronted him and he said that he couldn’t give me what I want or need, and wouldn’t have his needs met, living so far away from one another. When we parted ways, he actually told me that he had to leave, asap, before he did something stupid like rush me off to a friend of his who could marry us. WTF is that? Why does someone say something like that when ending it with you?? And WTF is wrong with me to buy that shit??
Now I’m struggling with all of the “whys”. Why did he do that to me, if he felt that we had such a special connection, if he loved me so much? You’re right – sometimes it’s as simple as being used by someone for their selfish gain. I wish that made me feel better, but it doesn’t.
The first time he left my life, I raked him over the coals, and he blocked contact with me. This last time, I kissed his a$$, told him how much I loved him, and let him go thinking that he was a great guy, and that we were a victim of circumstance. Now I regret doing that. I wish I’d have raked him over the coals twice as bad as the last time. I was so concerned with how I looked and in having the “right” reaction. I now feel like even more of a fool. He walks away thinking he’s the cat’s meow, and I’m the fool.
I almost sent him a text last night to let him know what a jackass he is, and that I am no fool, that it’s not the distance, that he used me. I want him to know that he didn’t pull one over on me. That he’s no prize. The only thing stopping me is that there is no point. Why do I care what he thinks? Plus I don’t want to look like a nutjob, which, some days, I clearly am. It’s a daily struggle to not let him know the things that go through my head. I have huge regrets about having parted ways so “nicely”. And for being so damn gullible.
He’s moved on, once again. His dating profile is gone. I’m sure he thinks the new gal is getting a real catch … afterall I confirmed how amazing he is. The truth is that the only thing he offered me was bad sex, a pipe dream about how great our life *could be*, empty words, and a bunch of mindfuckery and confusion. When I ask myself what do I miss about him, it’s all stuff that was promised, assumed, dreamed about. I was sold a bag of hot air and shit. This guy should be in sales.
And then there are the days when I wonder if he was genuine. Is it really the distance. I regret having said anything at all. If I could go back in time, I’d have walked away quietly, not saying anything at all. How do we know what’s the “right” reaction?
Miss Diggs,
I think that girls and women up until this point have been socialized in ways that in certain aspects, work against us. The notion that a woman does not have a man and a baby, no matter how good she is, who she is, what she does, or how well she does it for how long she does it; she has come up short is one of them. I just see that most women deify men and relationships… and it can very much be said that men deify women as well. But women still would rather forfeit their health, wealth, and wellbeing, than wear that dreaded scarlett letter S….SSSSINNNGLE! And while women sacrificing themselves is nothing new, at least back in the day it was for her husband that paid the bills. Now a days, we got grown assed, 30, 40, and 50 something year old women going cray cray over texts messages they are teenagers or something. 30, 40, and 50 year old women are selling their souls for male attention, not commitment, not a engagement ring, not a wedding, just for some guy to PAY US SOME ATTENTION. To the point of we don’t hear of how the guy lied to, cheated (if it was a ‘relationship’), on stole from, beat on, molested her children, had gay tendencies until AFTER he LEAVES HER. So essentially women would still be with those guys but he dumped her and now all those things are a problem. Girl please! Too many of us don’t have no kind of sense of ourselves. We are grown as hell still looking for ourselves in some man. Now I am a single women and I totally get it. Live, love, happiness, companionship, partnership, family, what else is there?! I get that and I feel the same way too. But the fact that too many of us have NO sense of ourselves is a problem. Too many of us are adult empty vessels and that is a problem. If we have NO sense of ourselves, how can we have standards, deal breakers, as well as an ability to assert and stand up within ourselves? These men don’t have anything that belong to us. Think about what its like to deal with men who think that we have something that belongs to him. Who thinks that women ‘owe’ him somehow. Like being in the car with a fly and the windows rolled up right? When we women don’t have no sense of ourselves, no sense of value just as we stand, we wont have the ability to assert our ‘rules or engagement’ for being in our space in any way, shape, or form and we wont be able to decide our ‘price’ or ‘going rate’ as in what does a man need to give you for access to your mind, time, energy, and specifically body. Is it a text, a certain amount of phone calls, dates, quality time, conversations, commitment, marriage, or a few shots at the bar? And it does no good to have these requirements…until you meet a frickin guy. Right when you need them the most. We women have to know what we want and know in our bones, marrow, and DNA that we DESERVE and are WORTHY of it. If we don’t feel we are worthy, if we settle for less, it is not the mans fault. It is not MEN’s fault that they are able to NOT call us, not come see us, not pay us any real attention, send old lazy, trite, generic mass texts, borrow/steal money, play the male damsel in distress, talk openly about liking types of women who don’t look nothing like us, not keep his word, not commit, not marry, not defend, not like, and not love us…and still be able to get in the bed with us. We get in the bed with men who are perfectly fine with not seeing/hearing from us for days, weeks, months, and years. We get in the bed with men that we know lie to us. That we know don’t care for our kids. That we know don’t care for us deep down. And that is not these guy’s faults.
Yes, it is a dating man’s BUFFET out there. We’ve got millions of out of shape, average looking men with a job (or not) beating off women with a stick. They don’t commit (even when they do) because they feel, why should they? With the Internet and cell phones, there are all of these new and exciting ways to treat us like a pull toy.
Somehow society has convinced millions of women that they have to be perfect in every way or else your mediocre man will, bounce out.
No man is good enough for me to beat myself up and jump through hoops for. Ew.
And I’ll add: men who skip town on their child support payments (to us or other women), men who try to get new partners to raise their children, men who can’t raise their own damn kids when they have partial custody, men who call looking after their own damn kids for a few hours “babysitting”, men who make rape jokes, men who try to get you drunk on the first, second etc. date to “take advantage of you” or who joke about it, men who test you, men who try to debate you, men who punish you, men who claim that their ex wife or girlfriend (who has custody of their kids and who is raising them) is “crazy”, men who look down upon people who get counseling and so on.
Thank you. That is all x
Dear Nat,
It’s taking me quite alot of current training to learn to ‘constantly express yourself’ rather than repress/freeze, wait, analyse, chew over, mulch on, grow into a little fur ball and explode later on some totally unrelated thing and possibly completely unsuspecting person. Trauma.
I find when I do get it right I barely notice it but when I get it wrong – it’s another story completely. Yes it is true that the more I am able to express and come out of myself – in the moment/present – the better I am handling things, feeling and understood by others/ not taken advantage of. This is also balanced with trusting and listening to myself – when not to express also – which is still being present to myself.
The trick is learning when to do which for yourself? identifying the real warning feelings, from the fake ones and listening to them. In the meantime while you learn some forgiveness is def. essential. You wouldn’t chastise a two year old for falling over while learning to walk, would you?
Oh shit. I overreacted more than ALL y’all….not sure if that’s a point of pride or not, but I’m claimin’ it. The night I found out that the AC was dating another woman (after showing his ass to me, figuratively, at a bar the week before) I was accidentally (yeah, for real) getting wasted off vodka at the beach with a friend who neglected to tell me that she poured the whole frickin’ bottle of vodka in the thermos with the Gatorade (yeah….it was pretty ghetto…for real). Anyways, I ended up having one of those choice text exchanges that you cherish for your entire, embarrassed adult life. I actually texted him at the end, “Later you later, ” which, incidentally, became a joke catchphrase with my close friends until this day. I think that’s what these dysfunctional relationships are good for, folks: inside jokes for you girl-(dude-) friends to razz you with until the end of time.
My two cents, all ya’ll. Yeah…I done fucked up quite a few times. I’m wondering if Shannon Doherty or Kirstie Alley will play me in the upcoming Lifetime miniseries. Shit.
OMG..you are too funny. I laughed so hard when I read “Later you later.” Sounds like something I’d do. So good to see the humor in a difficult situation, but laughter is such good medicine!!
I think the only way to start to feel better after someone dumps you by text, or lies to you about going on vacation with his x-wife, or you run into him on the beach with another woman when you’ve just been intimate with him five days before…the ONLY way to move on is yep…a big fat NC. Never never never respond again. You owe this person NOTHING. You owe yourself the gift of dignity, lovecaretrustrespect, and you owe yourself a word I really like from Natalie, the gift of self-soothing. Taking care of yourself. Spending time in a safe zone with yourself, with friends who are especially caring, fun, positive people, doing things that you love, or figuring out what those things are if you’ve lost pieces of yourself along the way. I had a boyfriend of 7 months (yep he gave himself the title) disappear 14 months ago. He lives in my neighborhood. Still. Seven months after he disappeared he texted me ‘Happy Birthday, I know we don’t speak (who created that situation?!?) but you are a great person.’ Huh? I didn’t respond. I found out there was a way to block texts. I did it. I blocked him on FB. I blocked him by email. A month after the BD text I was riding my bike and he saw me from the corner of the street where he was waiting to cross. He yelled out my name a couple of times real loud trying to get my attention. I looked right at him and looked away and kept riding. Remember, he only contacted me either lazily or situationally-based (just happened to run into me) after he disappeared.,I will keep the blocking in place forever. Hey, why not? It’s not like you get charged a fee to block somebody. And you know, it serves as a reminder to me that someone who slept with me, talked about the future, introduced me to his daughter, had me speak to his mother and other daughter on the phone from out of state, stood me up on dinner plans and then never contacted me again, didn’t call me back (even out of courtesy to stay goodbye and sorry), Hell no! You don’t get the satisfaction of a drama-filled emotional response to feed on.
If you can’t do NC, you know I understand. We’re all human and somebody hurt us, and it seems like it didn’t seem like a big deal to them, so react away. But once the initial anger has cooled slightly, do NC. And keep doing it. Because that person treated you poorly and this time I don’t take it lightly anymore and act like it’s ok to treat me that way. This time finally I understand what’s going on. This time finally, I am starting to keep that line I the sand drawn. And this time you stay on your side way way over there if you’re gonna be a dic_.
Igotout,
The mind boggles when people who decide to reconnect after they clearly have done the despicable would even think to reconnect?? It’s hard even trying to understand the reasoning behind the disappearing act in your case, and it suck (for want of a better word) that he led you on and really disgraceful on his part clearly indicating that he has serious personal developmental issues.
I am drawn to your strength regarding NC and it truly works plus I highly recommend also the safe place (with no perpetrator in sight) mentioned as crucial that is to regrouping and understanding the hurt and trauma experienced plus getting in touch with one’s own personal issues.
I wish you well in your healing journey and try to eventually make peace with the image at least of the ex as you don’t want to remain tense to yourself due to this one person who clearly does not deserve the light of day in your life. Yay that you are backing yourself on this bad (and learned) experience hence keep the NC faith going.
Much peace.
Ingotout, I got the famous break up text just before Christmas. The wording was very calculated, he told me that while he loved all the time he spent with me, it did not create a void in his life when we were not together (long distance relationship btw). Ouch that hurt, a lot. He then went on to wonder if our relationship was meant to last (because of his doubts). Ouch again. I think he was leaving me to read between the lines… To be honest, it was not a total surprise, lots of red alerts that I totally ignored. An AC for sure and his final bow out text was the final proof I needed. Very pathetic. I did not reply because what was there to reply to but I was devastated and have spent the past months getting over but had an NC relapse when around a month ago, he sent me a support message when he learned of a professional difficulty I was having. Aaaaargh, I responded a bit too enthusiastically and hey, no reply. Says it all. It won’t be happening again. I did beat myself up over it though, why the hell did I do that, for goodness sake. Since then, I have had to change my phone and number so he will not be able to contact me again. These guys are totally immature, selfish with no empathy whatsoever. He really put me though the wringer though. What a waste of heartache.
OMG…who says stuff like that??! Oh yeah, ACs. I’m telling you, the best defense is a good offense! You give it right back, and THEN go no contact. Cry in private. Get angry in private. I have learned that a little equal revenge makes the healing go faster.
You did not feel a void? “Yeah, I know what you mean. I thought I’d miss you more than I do, too. Guess it’s NOT true love. Take it Easy.”
THEN go NC.
I get SO ANGRY when I feel like someone is intentionally trying to hurt my feelings. I’ve had men break up with me in caring ways, they merit truth and honest reactions in return. But the AC-trample-on-her-heart breakup? Give it right back. And then go NC all the way.
Elgie R:
What happens and how do I react to someone who was predictable and consistent in a relationship, broke up decently(if there is such a thing) face to face and explained the reasons (I am not the one he discovered after one year together and he can’t commit), and then he comes back slightly nudging you twice in 8 months post break up.
Is he AC or a normal one? What I am supposed to make out of this?
I believe a normal guy might come back after some time goes by, but if he does, he genuinely wants to either reconcile or establish a friendship.
The NC broken by this person shows he was just checking if I am still there. Because he offers neither. that’s why he is not just EU anymore. He is AC now too. You don’t disturb someone’s boundaries after 8 months just to see if I am alive and still there. If I am important, call, schedule a meeting, try establish a friendship or reconcile. Otherwise, no reason to contact. My opinion. Well, unless one is AC.
He did respond to me by the way, saying that I am important to him and he wants to keep in touch.
I am silent.
Annabel, the AC I used to know broke up with me right after Christmas. It’s AC thing to do I think. between or after the holidays.
They have a temporarily “aha” moment. Only to regret it few months later, bothering you.
Block. NC.
I burned twice already as you can see if you read me.
Be careful. Protect yourself. And if you burn, move on even stronger.
Thank you Sofia and Elgie for your replies, they mean a lot to me. Elgie, what you say, who says stuff like that? Answer, a complete idiot 🙂 I am mad with myself as it took that crappy text to give me the final wake up call I needed, I mean to get out, stay away and not initiate any contact, which I have nt except for answering that last text. It was a blow though as I was in love with him as inconsistent as he was so it took time for me to evaluate the relationship, realise it was all wrong and only about him. In truth, that text spoiled my Christmas break and I could not even bring myself to talk to anybody about it. He wrote it in stone, he did not love me and that was the kicker, there was no going back. Yes Elgie, I did think of many ways to reply but I guess I was so dumbfounded, I couldn’t think straight, I just could not get my head around that, how could anybody in their right senses end a two year relationship with a couple of text characters and no follow up call, I hated that disrespect most of all and wondered if he actually detested me, I mean it is the kind of thing you would do to somebody to really hurt their feelings, quite deliberate, I know I could never do that. 7 months on and getting to the other side but not quickly enough. I know I will get there. I could tell you more about the relationship, mostly hot and cold, but it would just be a repeat of most of the stories told on Nats site, pretty much copy and paste the AC man. Sofia, sorry it happened to you too, it sucks doesn’t it? Once again, thanks for your kind words. I am just giving myself the time to heal, put it behind me and hopefully learn some lessons. This site gives great insights.
Annabel, breakup text after two years! I read your posts again. You know, you are right, we could copy and paste the AC story and it will fit ours almost exactly. The AC I used to know broke up face to face. Unexpectedly though. I thought he came for a visit, as usually. No, “we need to talk.” Ok.
7 months healing after a 2-year relationship is a great progress already. Give yourself more time. Don’t rush yourself. Don’t stick to some timing “rules.” We are all different. I am 7 months post breakup, but I was in a one-year relationship. I am nearing the acceptance. I got distracted by his contact very much. I was afraid I was back to square one. No, I am not. I experienced all the range of emotions in the last 4 days, but I know I won’t be back where I started. Give yourself as much time as you need.You know you are getting better. That’s all that matters.
I find it unbelievable that someone can break up by a text. After 2 dates maybe. Not after 2 years.
With the acceptance comes the resolution to not analyze and think anymore about “why”. I used to blame myself first 3-4 months. Now looking back: wow I carried around so much self-dislike and low self-esteem and guilt for something else obviously (from childhood). I tortured myself thinking I chased away the AC/EU. Now, I don’t even wonder why he did what he did. I am very close to the acceptance and moving on. I can feel it. And that’s when they contact you indeed, it’s a cliche and he did. I am not completely moved on yet, so I guess I can expect another follow up text, “you are important to me,” in about 4 months, time for Christmas wishes. I don’t want to see or know about his existence anymore. I am done. Changing the number or blocking him. Changing the number is even better to block out all the ACs. Also the spam folder: I might have a desire to check it eventually due to hormones, nostalgia, wine, or whatever else. I would rather just cut it off completely. Done.
These people are messed up. The more you heal, the more you realize that it just doesn’t make sense. And as you learn to love yourself, you move on even faster. You give up that situation, accept it, learn from it about yourself, and move on.
It will happen to you sooner than you think. But don’t rush yourself. It won’t work.
It will happen though.
“The wording was very calculated, he told me that while he loved all the time he spent with me, it did not create a void in his life when we were not together”
I read that in a robot voice. It sounds so clinical, like a lab test result.
Love your attitude 🙂
This is for all the lovely ladies / gentleman that are doing NC OR having a hard time letting go their respective AC/ Narcs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1NHjcfDqSfs
Hugs to you all.
I listen to this song when I think of the cheating AC and wonder why karma let’s him be happy with the red head he cheated on me with. I want to ask him ‘Why?’ and why he couldn’t love me when I loved him so much.
Hugs to you all. I hope this help you all. <3
This is an awesome post, in so many ways. I used to hold it all in, and then flip out on people. Usually boundary busters. I was told I had anger issues. I started thinking I was the problem. I blamed myself for EVERYTHING. I apologized for reacting wrongly to crappy behavior. I started suppressing my negative emotions and that did nothing but make me feel WORSE. It’s important to experience emotions. They teach us to pay attention, validate ourselves, and move on. Sometimes we are reacting to downright crappy behavior and have the right to demand respect. Other times, we are reacting out of our own woundedness. Ah, I wish we all had this capability, and the capability to be an accountable human being! Awesome post and perfect timing and Happy Late Birthday!
Tiffrbug
I was raised not to express emotions, even pain, upon threat of severe punishment. Here the overall expectation is that I accept being a mindless old maid or settle for being some sort of mindless, gun luvvin bar slut. Screw that! Our emotions are there for good reason and we have the right to them. They are our early warning system, whether the issue is us or them, we feel all is not well and we need to heed this. I tend to keep my feelings hidden until I decide whether my reaction is inappropriate or not. I do so because the warrior in me does tend to shoot off her mouth and challenge folks. However, the feelings are still there, giving me clarity and telling me I have to do something or warning me to never get into a certain situation again.
DAVE MASON LYRICS
“We Just Disagree”
Been away, haven’t seen you in a while
How’ve you been, have you changed your style?
And do you think that we’ve grown up differently?
Don’t seem the same, seems you’ve lost your feel for me
So let’s leave it alone, ’cause we can’t see eye to eye
There ain’t no good guy, there ain’t no bad guy
There’s only you and me and we just disagree
Ooh-hoo-hoo, oh-oh-ho
I’m going back to a place that’s far away
How bout you, have you got a place to stay?
Why should I care when I’m just trying to get along?
We were friends, but now it’s the end of our love song
So let’s leave it alone, ’cause we can’t see eye to eye
There ain’t no good guy, there ain’t no bad guy
There’s only you and me and we just disagree
Ooh-hoo-hoo, oh-oh-ho
So let’s leave it alone, ’cause we can’t see eye to eye
There ain’t no good guy, there ain’t no bad guy
There’s only you and me and we just disagree
Ooh-hoo-hoo, oh, oh-oh-ho
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p8_FOQ7-P30
It’s been a while since I posted on this site, but just reading these posts is so helpful.
My story is I was the OW for nearly two years. Last year as I find out about the family holiday (a year ago to the date) I said look, if you’re ever single, look me up. I can’t do this anymore. It wasn’t a game, I just genuinely wanted this to be over, whether it meant he stayed with his wife or didn’t, I didn’t want to be in this situation or rollercoaster anymore. When he returned from holiday, he contacted me to say that he had left and wanted to see me. My gut said no but my heart said yes.. Anyway, he travelled 300 miles to stay with me for a bit.
Fast forward one year.
Today
I have been through councelling. He managed to snake his way in and out. I found out a month ago that despite the fact he now rents a property separate from his wife, they were all going on a family holiday! She contacted me last year and after a four hour phone call, did admit how awful their holiday was last year (are they both mad)?! Anyway, when this happened, we had a conversation where he admitted that he couldn’t give me what I deserved and I said categorically that there was no way I was watching him get on the plane with his family. I think my words were such as
We’re you dropped on the head as a baby?
Combined with, you’ve put me in an impossible situation- I can’t ask you not to go on holiday with your kids if that’s what you promised, and I won’t be here if you do. It’s a no win he created so we both amicably agreed to call it a day and not to be in contact.
Last week he was in the area and I remained NC (I read Nats book too). Suddenly I was inundated with emails (work) despite the fact he would have received my out of office after the first one. Then I found out that a dear school friend passed away. The friendship that was lost also bought back a lot of not very nice childhood memories which I then confronted my parents about (not the best of responses ;).. Coupled with just feeling like **** and a glass or two of wine! I contacted him acknowledging that I had received his emails (which I guess was his intention) and the news about my friend. He replied with how sorry he was etc. anyway I won’t bore you with details, but one thing led to another and the following night whilst he was in his rented flat, we ended up on FaceTime. Initially the conversation was about my friend and work. Then of course, I got the rage and realise the reality of the situation and asked him what was happening. Of course he still intended to go on holiday with his children And said that they were too you to understand (they are both 7). My daughter is currently on holiday with her dad, and his new partner (not that that is relevant).. On FaceTime he continued to say and word that he loves me and misses me.
So, in relation to this article, I lost the plot and replied with-
I have nearly 600 friends of fbook. I have friends that are not on fbook and generally in life know a lot of people from all walks of life. YOU ARE THE ONLY PERSON I KNOW WHO HAS ENDED A RELATIONSHIP AND NOT TOLD YOUR KIDS! Either that or you’ve lied to me and not ended your marriage. either way, you still look ****ing miserable, but you know best right?
What are you going to do, wait till their older (10 or 16?!!). Do you still put your ring on at the weekends and all the other times you’re in *******??! Because the boys get upset when you’re not wearing it? Or do you enjoy telling porkie pies!? Maybe that’s nearer to the truth!!
Those three words- you love me!!! Really? You spent 3 years not sure what you wanted, left your marriage but ‘made love to your wife’ less than 18 hours after you got out of my bed, disappeared to sort things out once and for all 11 times, asked me to go on holiday with you then cancelled that and told me you were going with ****** and the kids instead!
Thank god you love me as I would hate to be someone you don’t like!
You left last August, went back in September, left in October and went back again in December, left again in January and then (nice family hols) in April, left again in May and by 31st May….. You went back to *******
June and July were a mixture of not sures, mainly weekends in ******* and me by week, then August, well that’s all about the holiday and *******
Do you see now why I’m not sticking about to see September?!!
Good luck. I personally think you’re just a liar. Be grateful that ******* has let you shit on her from a great height and still wants you back.
Hope you and the family have a great holiday!!
I know I shouldn’t have sent it, and I sound like I’m comparing myself to his wife. I’m just still so angry and hurt, probably more at myself!
I can’t wait for the day that EUM, liar comes in to my place of work and I think, what was I thinking!!
So I am reading through all the comments after reading the post, as I normally do, and am wondering if any of you have met men who are emotionally available and I guess just all around good men? I ask because I tend to date in a pattern that I am desperately trying to break. The men I date are abusive in some way shape or form and yet I rationalize their behavior and blame myself. Now that I am single yet again, I am trying to focus on me and get my mind right after years of abuse at the hands and mouth of a narc/sociopath (x2). It has been hard though. I am lonely and I have let go of some of the blame, but still feel horrible. The rage that has been unleashed on me has left me feeling less than and honestly hopeless. I am thankful for this site, because without it I might still be in the relationship.
Yes Sissy26 part of my salvation has been to replace the internal rage on myself, blame and guilt, for being so repeatedly stupid for so long – with loving actions towards myself – which naturally attracts and sustains emotionally healthier people in the long run.
If you were on a diet and you binged on chocolate bars – you can exercise to offset the calories. It’s a similar principle. Blame only results in more abuse coming from other people – like a mirror to the abuse you give yourself.
It’s your job to start to find out what you can do to make you feel loved – what physical activities? It doesn’t have to be some grand plan – the simplist the best – like taking some exercise for 15mins, writing/reading on BR, eating a good meal, cleaning a cupboard out, dressing how you really want etc… but they have to be your real needs – not what someone else told you to do/likes to do or something that will actually harm you in the long run in any way!
Start small – one thing a day and keep building it up and if you binge again – remove the temptation that got you in that situation in the first place and go do something that will make you feel you can actually love yourself right after it. We are human – everybody messes up – we still have a right to feel love.
oona, I can relate to what you are saying. After I became single, gradually but progressively I realized that my life is so full now. Hobbies, things to do, tasks, events to attends, friends, and just so many things, all of sudden, I don’t feel lonely. While I was with AC I felt so lonely. With him or without him! Isn’t that strange. So yes, I agree with you. Start small, little thing every day. It adds up and you have such a full life even though you are single. That’s how my life is now!
Thank you sofia, I am really pleased to hear that you are doing really well but I mis-communicated to you.
My advice is about how to deal with blame and guilt you feel about yourself on a moment to moment, day to day basis when you are post abusive relationship and still sub consciously/consciously beating yourself up. This is crippling for any progress in any new or current relationships – with or without hobbies.
You need to offset the blame and guilt feelings asap before they fester and grow or get repeated by others outside of yourself also(= MORE ABUSE).
I was referring to health chores – things I need to do that are good for me like – cycling, eating healthy full meals, cleaning that drawer or cupboard I’ve been avoiding, changing my bedsheets for fresh sheets, that letter I needed to write, cv I needed to do, job I needed to apply for, text I need to delete, phone call to the bank manager… basically anything small that you would rather not do and you put off to the last minute but you know will make you feel good in the long run(and self-loved) if you get up and get it done – GUARANTEED (and a real achievement when you are feeling like crap).
Even though you can’t do anything about the situation you may have been in in the past, there are things you can do now. You know what they are – they are personal to you and all around you – those things you have been avoiding – try one and see how it makes you feel.
oona, I reread you and understand and agree. I think I misunderstood and read too fast and replied fast too. I see what you mean. I will follow your advice. Thank you:)
I wasn’t sure if I was clear. Thanks for re reading and replying Sofia. I love your enthusiasm for life – it is inspiring.
Sissy26, my advice is try to focus on something you like. Or don’t like – in the sense – if you don’t like your job or where you live, change it. Something you like – hobbies – pursue them. The first 3-4 months post breakup I was glued to BR. It was my lifeline. It helped tremendously. Thank you everyone. Then, I gradually picked up. Started meeting friends, went to the events, met new people, socialized, started volunteering, attending the church, making more friends, and generally, there is not a single weekend or Friday night I feel lonely anymore. Actually I wish I had more time on my own. To read, to catch up on some hobbies! The weird thing is when I was with the AC, my whole time with him was dedicated to pleasing him. The time without him was dedicated to worrying if he is really serious about me. I had no time for hobbies, reading, or friends. My whole life was around for him. That was my pattern which I recognized only recently. No more. My life is full with or without a man. If there is ever a man, there will be space for him. But if he is gone, I don’t worry. My life is full already without him. I feel happy.
It will happen to you too.
Think what makes you happy. And do it. Even if little each day at first.
🙂
Sissy
My ex husband was one of the good ones. The biggest mistake of my life was letting him go although there didn’t seem like I had much of a choice at the time. We had been friends for years, we worked together on community projects. When he told me he loved me he did so up front, unambiguously. He was honest about past relationships, his family, discussed our age difference which was considerable. He showed up, stepped up, let me know I meant the world to him. He was proud to intro me to friends and family. That’s how it’s supposed to be. No drama, no not knowing where you stand. He was well read, responsible, kept himself in shape, worked hard and still does to make this world a better place. Yep, since then it’s as though the wheels fell off. I don’t know your age group, but it’s as though the rules have changed. More casual, cheap, low investment rships. Yep, I’ve never dealt with as many narcs as I have the past decade. It’s like everyone feels entitled to everything although they’ve done nothing. Weird. You are in a vulnerable position being post-narc if that’s truly what your AC was. I am in the process of getting over three years of narc (diagnosed by professional) abuse. I am now at the point where I can look narcboy in the eye, challenge him in our workplace. A strong woman with righteous anger isnt something to mess with. That took time. Right now, you are truly traumatized, very much a PTSD situation. AC types spot this vulnerability a mile away and hone in on you. First, take time to bail from dating, heal, understand what happened so it never does again. Next, realize that we will always be approached by problem children; like a previous commenter stated, they don’t look at what they can offer; they are merely listening to their wiinag. It seems a lot of dating now is detection and subsequent pushing away the problems so there’s room for the good guys. I wish I could lessen your pain but it takes time.
This is a good description Noquay. I feel that these must have been the rules all along – just I didn’t know them before – I haven’t known anything else. Vulnerable! and ptsd, definitely describes post narc/abuse situation. It’s good to have experienced a positive relationship experience somewhere in your life. Helps to give a benchmark that is above the narc. Way above. And something to look forward to, maybe, when you get beyond them all.
Sissy26,
Yes, I met and married a emotionally available guy and who I not only think is great but other people as well. He is a geniue nice guy! He doesn’t have two faces one at home and another around other people. This is the reason why I love him because he cares about people just like I do. He has a good heart and I NEVER had to question if he valued me.
However, I was complete and happy before I met him. I worked on myself and was healthy. I was never going to let anybody ever treat me the way AC did. But I also never forget the sadness and pain because it made me the strong woman I am. There are some days when I shake my head at some of the things I tolerated and vowed to never let it happen again. Not even with my husband.
I have the same boundries with him that I had with AC. Because no matter how happy your marriage is things can change and you still need boundaries any relationship.
Sissy they do exist but you have to meet them in the circumstances you’re willing to carry on with. In other words, go out and meet face to face, in real life, doing things you enjoy doing. All this online stuff and bar scenes — well what you put into it is pretty much what you get out of it — a guy who likes online dating and bar scenes. AmIrite?
It’s been a while since I posted here but it was my lifeline 18-22 months ago when I was slowly recovering from a soul-devouring relationship with a sociopath. I had the full range of PTSD symptoms, hair loss, weight loss, nightmares, the lot. There is no medicine for that. No hospitals. No treatment. And yet… the recovery does happen with NC.
For the last 16 months I’ve been in a committed relationship with the most wonderful and fascinating emotionally available man. Before you get too jealous, wait — the language of red flags, boundaries, and identifying assclownisation helps me even with this guy.
Yesterday he got in touch to say he was out in the evening ‘arranged to meet, short notice, an old friend I haven’t seen in a while.’ Gave me her name and described her glamorous occupation. ‘Should be a laugh anyway haha’ etc.
Boom. Red flags. I asked him some questions and yes it’s an ex girlfriend from long ago (8 yrs?), but he refers to them as ‘friends’ now. Er, ‘friends’ who don’t normally really keep in touch? And she just turns up out of the blue for the first time in the 16 months we’ve been together? And does she know about me? Oh yes of course of course of course. I said — nope, not happy. He said nothing to worry about. I said great, why don’t I meet you both for the last drink then, so I can meet her? He said absolutely not, accusing me of not trusting him. Ok at that point, it officially treads on my boundaries. I played merry hell on him. 1) When old friend/flames turn up, the current boyfriend/girlfriend gets invited too. They don’t have to accept, but they are at least invited. Anything less is a foul play. 2) For some sad sacks, the trust bar is set so low that the general rule of ‘trust that nobody’ll touch no genitals’ will do. Well it should come as no surprise that my standards are a bit higher than that. I trust him not to show disrespect to me or our relationship — and that includes everything from excluding me to denigrating how I’m described to concealing our relationship. Anything less than being proud to introduce me is just off. THAT’S where the height of my trust bar is.
We are having the make-up chat tonight.
Replying to my own message as a follow up.
The takeaway, ladies and gents, is always listen to those instincts and intuitions. Better not let your imagination run away with things, but listen to those instincts that tell you when something’s up. Look at the evidence in front of your eyes. A wise soul said earlier in this thread — Listen to what they’re doing.
I told him he hurt my feelings Thursday, and he said he realised that and immediately apologised. He was clearly hoping to end the convo right there and then. All done, hah, phew. But I don’t think so. I asked him if he knew why he hurt my feelings and he said no.
I pointed out first that he lied to me about the arrangements, and I asked him to think about what drove him to lie and to paint a picture that was very different from reality. “A old friend” was in fact “an old girlfriend”. They’re not friends. They don’t act as friends do by commonly sharing news and views, keeping each other up to date on goings-on, knocking around together, meeting other friends-of-friends and all that stuff. “…is in town” when in fact she’s always in town. She lives here, duh. What’s that all about, making it sound as if she’s flown in suddenly from Timbuktu and what an unexpected surprise it all is? “…She rang me today and I made arrangements at short notice to meet up…”, when in fact you just admitted you made the arrangements two weeks earlier to meet up when she rang you. How does ‘two weeks ago’ become ‘same day’ and all so last minute surprisey-like? I asked him to think about what was his motivation for painting me this false picture. And then what was his reasoning to ensure that I wouldn’t be invited along as a matter of courtesy — which is what one does to defuse the situation when one is in a relationship and is going to meet for a catch up with exes. Those motivations to duck and dive, to meet in partial secret, to obfuscate the truth and to deceive are not healthy and positive motivations are they. They’re selfish, careless and arrogant motivations.
I said “these things, these fibs, all this greasing-me-up, so you can quietly meet up with an ex-girlfriend and not invite me along for the last drink to introduce me — all that is completely out of order. It’s disrespectful to me and our relationship.” He said he didn’t mean it that way. I said well that’s what you’ve done. I asked in what way he did mean it then. He couldn’t answer that. He didn’t know. He said well I don’t think that way. Which all translates to “Jeez it’s not the end of the world, I only wanted to check out an old girlfriend of mine and didn’t think you’d have the instinct and intuition to see through my lies and machinations, now I have to figure out a way to get you off my back and not point out to me what I know perfectly well I’ve done wrong.”
But there’s more (bear with me!).
I said “So she knows about me, then?”. He said “Yeah, you were the first 20 minutes of conversation.” I said “Oh why? In what way?”. But I already knew in what way. Ladies I think most of you can already anticipate exactly what he was about to say.
“I said that my being here tonight was causing problems with my girlfriend, and I was in trouble. She said ‘oh so why don’t you go home then?'”
I said “But of course you didn’t. Right?” “Yeah”. “Because who would, right? Because showing your ex-girlfriend that you’re putting the current girlfriend in her goddamn place makes you look like a real hero in her eyes doesn’t it?”
I said well that’s just DANDY isn’t it. You spend the first 20 minutes with your ex-girlfriend talking about what an a***hole your current girlfriend is and what a hero you are for her sake. I asked did I ever object to you going out to meet your ex-girlfriend? He said ‘Oh. Er, no’. I said ‘Well then why did you tell her that? Why is that the picture you wanted to paint for her?’ He said ‘Well I don’t know.’ I said look, that was a private matter that passed between you and me. What do you think you’re doing discussing our private matter with her? How do you think that makes me feel? ‘Er, um, uh, ok…’
I said ok look, let me make it clear to you why I’m hurt. The reasons why you overstepped my boundaries and I cried myself to sleep Thursday night are firstly that you very obviously lied to me about the arrangements, that’s reason number one. Reason two is that you lied to me because of a serious reason that impacts our relationship — you wanted to pull off what you well knew to be a Dodgy Antic, so that you could check out an ex-girlfriend. I don’t care how piffling unimportant you say the meet-up was for you. It was important enough for you to throw me, your current girlfriend, under the Bus of Lies.
Reason three is that you refused to invite me along — even knowing I wouldn’t have turned up until the final half hour so’s not to be a bothersome paranoid stalker. And here’s the real kicker. I had just been offered a new job that morning — it was a very very very amazing and special day for me and the end of a dark and difficult year-long chapter in my career. You were whooping it up with me by phone at lunchtime. Would this be a perfect reason to invite me along for a celebratory drink on my special day? But no, absolutely not — you actually said that I was out of order for saying “why don’t I meet you after you meet up with your friend, or for the last drink so that I can meet her?” You shut me down, you lashed out at me, you barked at me, and pretended that you were all butt-hurt because, according to you, I don’t trust you. Then you refused to speak to me, you went out and did whatever the hell you wanted anyway. Then you have the nerve to sit here pretending very badly to be upset with me too, in order to put me on the defensive so that I back off and stop nailing you for this. On that point. My trust for you has a bar set higher than ‘I trust you not to touch each other genitals’. That rule may be fine for more, say, rudimentary relationships. But my trust for you has a bar set all the way up at ‘I trust you not to say or do anything that is disrespectful to me or our relationship’. In other words I trust you not to embarrass me or make me look like an a***hole in front of others, and I trust you not to denigrate or conceal our relationship least of all in front of women you might be trying to impress. I trust you to be proud to introduce me to all your friends and family. I think it’s fair to say you hold the same standards for me, right? (nod) Yep ok, and you should. He said ‘well I have been proud to introduce me to all my friends and family.’ I said ‘Well not quite. All but one. This one. So why’s that, exactly?’ (nod). So do you think your conduct surrounding this whole Dodgy Antic showed me much care, respect, or love? (no answer, but I think I saw a shaft of light just beam through his skull and out his right ear — he gets it, but he isn’t going to admit he gets it. He’d rather throw himself into a steel furnace right now than admit he gets it).
Finally I get to the connection with Natalie’s post here. My fella withstood 20 minutes of my playing MERRY HELL on him as noted above. But one word put me over the line because by this time I was getting angry all over again describing what went on.
I said “Reason number four now, reason number four. You then go on to ridicule me and make me look like the wicked witch of the west in front of your ex-girlfriend to score brownie points with her. That — that — was just dick-ish.” And on that note he said “That’s it, I’ve listened to enough. I’m off to pay the rent and to the gym to punch the bag.” So that’s where the line is drawn with him. ‘Dick-ish’ is off-script.
Replying again as a postscript.
Before reading BR, I would not have been able to stand my ground. I would have been feeble. Against the instincts screaming in my head I would have stuck my fingers in my ears and gone “lalalalalala it’s fine it’s fine, I really mustn’t confront him it’ll only get him upset and I wouldn’t want him to be upset, I can just swallow this whole thing myself, it’s fine it’s fine, it’s better than him being angry with me for pointing out that he hurt me.” Yep that’s exactly how I would have responded. I would have been in floods of tears without any way to unpack what the hell was going on and examine it. Least of all would I have been able to distinguish each element — this action is ok, what he said here was ok, this passes muster, that was a bit dodgy but I’ll let it go, hey but what he did there is not ok, those particular words were lies, what he did at that point was just nasty to me, etc. Objectively to see the wood AND the trees. The words AND the behaviour, as a whole and in part. The context AND the motivations.
Years ago I read an old lady’s advice on life. She’d been married for 65+ years. She said when your man hurts you in any way, you must never ever turn the other cheek. You must play merry hell about it straight away, you must point out to him exactly what he did wrong and why it hurt you, do it clearly and strongly but do it just once, and then let it drop. I think that’s excellent advice.
I’m now feeling like I’ve looked after myself — I’ve chosen not to ignore me and I’ve done right by me. I’ve got it out of my system.
Is my fella angry with me right now? Yes, he is. Of course he is. But he’s only angry with me for perceiving the real truth, for being able to judge which particular things he did that were wrong, for having the courage to tell him directly and unashamedly which of his words and actions hurt me and why, and how I felt about that. He’s only angry with me in a childish way, the way a child gets angry when they get caught.
A child readily blames the getting caught, not the wrongdoing, for their woes. The child’s pride is temporarily wounded because they realise they aren’t as clever and invincible as they thought they were. Half the fun in wrongdoing is getting away with it and laughing at the parents’ stupidity for not seeing what was going on, so getting caught out not only means they’ve had all their fun taken away but it tarnishes their reputation. They’re discovered to have done something that can be labelled as something that little thieves/cheats/bullies/liars do, and if they have a conscience (not all people do!), that makes them feel bad about themselves. That’s why they hate it – because what they’ve done reflects badly on them. Yet it’s exactly the thing that corrects their behaviour.
My fella actually tried to say that I’m just thinking of everything in the wrong way, and that’s what’s gone wrong here. I should just think of what happened in some other way, where everything was ‘not like that’, because he didn’t mean it like that, that was never his intention, and so that’d be better. The mind boggles, doesn’t it. I said ‘So you want me to re-frame your nauseating behaviour in a way that would resolve you of blame? Well you would want that, wouldn’t you? Of course you would.’
When he apologised again, I said flowers would be nice.
Wow. A lot of valuable lessons in this set of posts, Grizelda.
I could feel my ‘people-pleasing’ ways rebelling…but my eyes are opening.
Griz, I’ve read your current posts carefully as I really appreciated your writing in the past. Your head is totally in the right place. Everything you did was authentic. You spoke the truth and you spoke from your heart.
When someone wants a meet and greet with a love from the past, and wants approval from their current significant other, they couch things with innocence.
Time has past, they could be friends. In reality it is an ego stroke, a searching for validation ( tell me I was the love of your life, I’m the one that got away, deep down you really still love me). But the truth is, it is illicit.Even the exlovers may believe
their meeting is well intentioned, and no one will get hurt. You are right, he wanted you to trust him, but the trust line was fuzzy.
I speak from my own experience. I wanted my significant other to agree it was all right for me to meet someone from my past. Afterall, I was honest, and not deceptive that we wanted to get reacquainted, see how are lives had fared. But I deeply regret it. Nothing came of the ex-romance, but I never should have done it, the intention was wrong. If my significant other had wanted to go meet an ex-girlfriend I would have sounded the red flag alert and called for the cavalry. That is the honest reaction.
I suppose after spending 16 months as boyfriend and girlfriend it may be a crossroads. Maybe he’s getting bored, dillydallying with thoughts about the future. After 16 months you are either a couple in a co-piloted relationship planning the future, or you are just dating. Could continue for years…
Griz,
I´m sorry for the hard time your guy put you through but I´m happy to read that you handled it so well (besides, I´ve always enjoyed your posts). At this stage in life romance isn´t what it´s cracked up to be, is it? We can drown in self-pity because our mate doesn´t behave like a mature responsible human being OR be realistic and concentrate on defending our boundaries whenever something bad comes up. And yes, then let it go.
I was reminded of the time my ex husband invited his ex girlfiend over for lunch, when we were still together. She was indeed in town for a couple of days (but then, she lives on the other side of the planet) and was recovering from a liposuction she had here. Their meeting was completely out in the open, with me present at all times, and she was quite friendly and trying not to laugh as it hurt after her operation. But I could still sense some minor left-over sexual tension between them, or perhaps it was some sort of sexual nostalgia of the times they spent together. And it did make me jealous, uncomfortable and left out! So yeah, I agree that the set-up you describe is unacceptable. My experience was bad enough, I can imagine how much worse yours must´ve been.
Thanks Lilia, I appreciate your thoughts. I can’t imagine what that lunch with ‘the previous’ would have been like. I find it really disturbing this tendency of some women (and men) to sniff out ex boyfriends (and ex girlfriends). There isn’t one positive, healthy, non-selfish reason for doing so.
I’ve been in a few situations where I was introduced to my boyfriend-at-the-time’s previous girlfriends. One was at a pub, one at a dinner party, another at a bigger party. It was fine actually– at least a few other people were around and everyone talked and laughed and carried on socially like normal. No shenanigans, and the boyfriend made it subtly clear in small ways that I pulled rank (giving me a little special treatment and consideration above others at the table/party). But the funny thing is, it never happened after those individual times — it sort of put the dampers on any more desire between these exes to meet up. It sort of had a finalising effect once they saw with their own eyes that we were a real couple and they were the gooseberries on the outside.
Grizelda,
I like your writing style, and you offer some great insights, but I agree with simple pleasures: at 16 months, you are either in a co-piloted relationship or you aren’t–it really is that simple.
This incident just happened, so I’d really try to take a step back and gain some perspective.
Unfortunately, sometimes people unfold at the most inopportune times, like when you could be celebrating your recent success.
You mentioned what Ljsrmissy said: “LISTEN to his actions.” Well, from what you described, your boyfriend went on a date with another woman, and he lied to you about it. To me, that’s cheating.
He cheated. You gave him merry hell,(which sounds like another term for “telling him about himself”); he apologized, and you told him to buy you some flowers.
Where are the real consequences? I’d say he ” got away with it.”
Telling someone about themselves won’t change who they are; nor, does it resolve issues. He lacks character and integrity– both red flag issues. Not to mention he reeks of impropriety. And why is he dating outside of the relationship?
He took away your choices; he devalued and disrespected your relationship, and….
I’m not judging you; I’m judging the situation, (nor am I trying to invalidate your feelings). It just seems to me like you are in denial as to what is really going on in your relationship.
Love, trust, care, and respect?
Insight is great, but it isn’t enough. One really needs to enforce boundaries and live ones values.
I think if you want a happy relationship, you have to be happy whether you are in a relationship or not. You have to know that you will be happy with a certain relationship or without that relationship. Relationships have no guarantees, and they really start to stink past their expiration date, as Natalie said. I don’t ever want to lose myself in a relationship; the most important relationship I have is with my higher power, and then myself.
I wish you well on your journey, and I remain humbled by my own.
I agree with many of your points and thanks MOMF (wonderful moniker!).
But has he got away with it? Well no, he certainly hasn’t. If I hadn’t paid attention to my instincts and just said ‘OK yeah, have a great time and speak to you later!’, then that would certainly have been getting away with it. Instead, I’ve exposed his deceit and breach of my trust — and he’s had to face up to that and live with the fact his reputation on trust is tarnished and it’ll take him some time to polish out that stain.
Have I told him all about himself? No, I didn’t, I know all too well that there’s no point going down the hysterical route. (“You are a big _z__ and a complete __z_ and you always _z__ and you never _z__” etc). Argh, pointless, like using a out-of-control tommy gun blindfolded. Instead I made sure it was all about specific actions and decisions he took — select behaviours. (“When you did __y__, this was disrespectful of me and it hurt me. You then went on to do __z__, which by any standard is just inappropriate and insensitive. How do you think I feel about that?”)
Last night I called him and he picked up and sounded abashed — quite tired, but relieved and happy that I actually called him. He laughed and said “You know I was just sitting here on the sofa watching some terrible television, and I’m in a complete grump, heh heh, I’m sitting here sulking and feeling sorry for myself rather than calling you. This is me, putting on the grump here in my man-cave.” He then went on to say hey I really did not mean to hurt your feelings. I didn’t think, I didn’t consider, no it’s just me ‘not thinking’. I always seem to have a problem thinking of other people’s feelings and that upsets people. I said I know – Ok I don’t think you’re a horrible person or anything. I said but you’ve got to, and this is how life is. He’s spending today licking his wounds in his cave and will ring again later.
I have a little more work to do with him. Obviously putting himself away in the man-cave thing to think about stuff is all good and fine, everyone has their routine when they’re feeling bad about themselves and their situation. But on the other hand — I’m the one who’s been wronged. Put things right with me before, not after, going to hide in the man-cave.
Grizelda,
Lying and cheating are deal breakers for me, and simply telling him how he hurt me wouldn’t be enough to resolve what I believe are the real issues.
I don’t deal with liars because they lie.
I don’t deal with cheaters because they cheat.
I don’t deal with men who deceive me because they deceive me.
To me, accepting this guy into your life after he has shown you he lies and cheats is condoning those behaviors.
You may think you aren’t condoning those behaviors because you have expressed your displeasure and hurt, and you are assuming he “gets it,” and he won’t do it again; you are assuming he’s licking his wounds in his man cave– why? –because he told you? But don’t you remember, he’s a liar(?).
LISTEN to your own actions because actions really do speak louder than words especially when you are dealing with a man, IMO.
To me, you caught him cheating, and what you decide to do about it is your business. I have no dog in the fight. I’m simply telling you what I would do; I would end the relationship.
I deserve better. I want better. I want it all: love, trust, care, and respect.
But I thank you, as well as others here, and of course Natalie.
This post and your comment really helped me to solidify my own resolve: I ended my relationship with my ex, “who brought me here,” because he verbally abused for the first and last time after being together for two years. He was one of my best friends before we became romantically involved, and it was an easy but tough decision to end the relationship; it was easy because I absolutely do not tolerate abuse, (automatic deal breaker); it was tough because I didn’t want to end the relationship because I loved him. But as Tina Turner said, “What’s love got to do with it?” I’m not going to live my life with a bully, who feels the need to abuse me every time he feels out of control.
It was good talking to you, take care of yourself, and congratulations on your recent success. I hope you took some time to celebrate YOU. :o)
Grizelda,
In my opinion, he is the one who should of called you to express his remorse and self reflections, instead of moping and waiting for you to put out the effort of contacting him. If someone screwed up and is afraid of losing something, they show effort and reach out, not just express remorse when you reach out to him. Actions speak. His actions say he wasn’t sorry enough to pick up the phone and call you, because he was a bit blah about it and busy feeling sorry for himself. Who’s the one who got hurt here? How did this become about him? He’s the one who lied and pulled a fast one. It is possible it can be salvaged, but lies and deceit are hard to get past, and he has to put in the effort. Sitting on his couch avoiding it and feeling sorry for himself for some reason ( since no one did anything to him) is not the way. I’d say the ball is in his court now. Let it stay there and see what he decides to do with it.
I just saw below in a response from you to Elgie that he gave you flowers. Good, he’s making a little effort. The ball is still in his court to mend broken fences, but you have to decide to stay open to it if your gut agrees, basing that on his actions. Hope it works out for you, but please keep your eyes open along with your heart. I’d be right mad at him, but I tend to jump a little quick. I’m not bitter, but I have very little tolerance these days for any bullshit, and it’s the happiest I’ve ever been.
She was the one who suggested he bring her flowers.
SP,
Yep, you’re right, I just reread her post. It does water it down and even cheapen it a little (sorry Grizelda, just being honest) that he had to be prompted first.
Grizelda, I see your posts as showing us that even the best gardens still need tending. If we think that finding the perfect guy means never having to step to him and correct things, we have “Happily-Ever-After” –itis, that unrealistic belief that the world is always pretty after you find The One.
When we sweep issues that bother us under the rug, they always crawl back out. That time you’ll not be “in the mood” because of something he did weeks ago and you never spoke about it thoroughly, to the point of resolution. That time you threw away something he was fond of because it ruined your décor, and he let it go, but now he doesn’t always treat you special.
We need to pull that weed out from the root, and that means some thorough digging and some uncomfortable moments, with someone admitting that one did not do the best thing for the “US”. Then, when the boundary is understood, that weed should never grow again, and the garden flourishes.
So, no, I don’t see this as “telling him about himself”. I see this as “You are damaging US and we got to nip this in the bud.”
We ARE going to have to pull the weeds from our relationship gardens. We will also have to accept that maybe he sees some weeds in us that bother him…and if a guy cares enough about the relationship to fix it, he will need to step to us.
I’ve heard more than one man say they want the “bitter with the sweet”. Meaning there’s a need in them to occasionally get a chastisement from the woman who loves them, makes them feel cared for. Like children need discipline – and you guys can go off on saying “I’m not raising s grown man”….I think you are missing a vital point of what makes a man feel cared for. Chastisement doesn’t mean yelling. It does mean stepping to them decisively and not letting them get away with behaviors that ruin the US.
Elgie R I really enjoyed reading your comment.
You’re so right, gosh I see it now, the best thing for the US, the bitter with the sweet — that’s exactly what I’m going through right now. Particularly the weeding — you must be psychic because he just turned up at my flat an hour ago with a little gift of a cyclamen plant with little white flowers (er, do they mean ‘surrender’? haha).
I’ve learned so much from Natalie and all the commenters on BR offering so many valuable perspectives and truths on relationships — enough to last a lifetime. BR not only helps the healing after a terrible relationship crash, but it can make its readers so much wiser and healthier when a new relationship opportunity knocks.
I think bringing the flowers that she asked for is a very positive sign. Shows he is listening, he likes her, and he wants to make her happy by doing what she asked.
Doesn’t cheapen the act because you asked for it. It should teach you to ask for more of what you want, IMO.
He probably does like her, and what she offers him. Love? That’s a trusted and a mutually co-piloted relationship which goes beyond months of dating. I am concerned when so many people rationalize the attention
from someone they are emotionally invested in as NML would call with “rose tinted glasses”.
When you ask for something and a person “just goes through the motions”, yes that cheapens the gift. But if they willingly give you what you asked for, the fact that you asked for it does not cheapen the gift. The important part I think is that He Is Listening To You.
A common complaint of husbands is that the wife never told them what they wanted. The wives complain that “he should just KNOW”. Wives interpret his NOT knowing and NOT doing as “he doesn’t care”.
Sometimes all you have to do is ASK.
I was trying to do a link to an Oprah article about a happy 45-year marriage, but can’t quite figure the “link” mechanics. But in the article, there was a period where the wife thought about leaving the marriage because of all the work she felt she did running the house, raising the kids, that she felt was unacknowledged and unappreciated by her husband. They had a talk, and he said “Why didn’t you just ASK for help?” SO she started asking, she actually said she had to learn to ask for what she needed. Life got smoother, they still seem happy with each other, even in love after 45 years. If she had dug in with the mindset of “WHY do I have to ask? You SHOULD just know. You SHOULD just do it. It doesn’t count if I have to ask!”…that’s a marriage headed for a ditch.
Sometimes you DO have to ask.
And yes there should be moments when spouses/mates do thoughtful things without being asked. Everyone likes to be shown they are special and thought about.
Aahh…reactions, and the guilt that seems to inevitably accompany them when and whether we actually execute them or just hold it all in wishing we’d said/done something, until one day we suddenly go “Pop!” and out comes a totally disproportionate overreaction to some relatively innocuous trigger….
After discovering BR ca. March of this year or thereabouts, I have been working on erecting my own array of boundaries after a lifetime of having NONE (= prey for AC’s much?), arising from a well-considered inventory of my recently-identified core values, so after a lifetime of either not saying anything when something bothers me or reacting with militarized aggression to having my non-existent boundaries bulldozed to atoms, I am in the process of training myself to take a look at why I am getting “that” feeling when something happens, and then sorting out what to do about it, learning to “just say ‘No’”, etc. Baby steps….
BTW: It is VERY helpful to read the comments where participants give specific examples of assclown-y behaviour so I can add that to my growing inventory of red flags to watch out for, whether in the course of day-to-day life or when I eventually succeed in shaking free from the bad marriage I am currently trying to get out of and meet someone(s) new. Thanks to everyone for sharing their personal stories and helping each other 🙂
After 13 years of not seeing or speaking to each other, I received an email from my first love. He wasn’t a jerk, and it was a great relationship, but we had a falling out and just never spoke again. It was and email apologizing for the way he handled things and some of the things he had said, and that he wanted to take responsibility for it. He expressed gratitude for the way my family and I had supported him. It was very brief and concise, and no questions asked. I was stunned. I responded by saying I could have handled things differently as well and appreciated him reaching out and saying what he did. He replied again and asked if he could contact my mom. I responded again and said of course, but also asked if everything was okay since he wasn’t really asking any questions, but had more of a need to say things. He responded again by telling me everything was great, and that he just had wanted to express the gratitude.
I felt so embarrassed. I guess a part of me was hoping to reconnect and I felt so disappointed. It is hard when someone who was significant to you resurfaces. I guess I wasn’t as bulletproof as I thought I was where he was concerned. It has really rattled me. I feel kind of stupid for having expectations in any way. I guess the memories of dealing with someone who actually reciprocated are tough to put away after they come up again. I guess a big part of it is just feeling ashamed about where my life is now.
Thanks for listening.
Three months of NC.
I hit rock bottom in May, when the narc came back after a month to tell me ‘there was no connection between us when we met the last time’. I had written here briefly my story at the time. I also lost my job. My sister in law passed away at the age of fifty (cancer). And I did not get the funding for my research. I felt my world crumble around me, as if I had lost everything. I felt suicidal. I had had enough. I looked for help. But I did not have much hope, I thought the pain would never go away, that that was it, I was a failure, I was finished. I found a really good therapist, who has shown me the power of self care. I am learning to catch my inner critic – and though it keeps berating me – I know now I do not have to listen to it, or believe it.
I have been reading BR every day (I had already started a year ago, but even though it made perfect sense, things only really started sinking in when all was over with the narc – yes, my epiphany ‘relationship’!).
I think I always under-reacted with him, due to the fear of losing him (when I did not have him anyway). I thought I was being assertive, since I almost always told him what I thought in a direct way, but the problem was that I was still engaging with him AFTER he had shown me he did not care and repeatedly hurt me. Would I be able to walk away earlier, now, if I were to relive that situation from scratch? I am not sure. I still think of him every day. I still dream of him despite everything.
BUT I have chosen myself. I don’t feel broken anymore. I feel my strength coming back, slowly, a little bit every day. I get days when I plunge right down into despair – probably there will always be days like that, I am human – but I know they are days, not weeks, not months, not years. I am healing (and I did not even believe it was possible to heal, at one stage, I thought one had to endure an accumulation of pain over time).
I thought I would share this for those of you who are going through the heartache right now. I have got so much food for thought and validation and support from BR. Thanks to everyone. If I could get better, every single one of you can. Trust.
ReadyForChange,
Thanks for this bit of inspiration. It is nice to hear things get better. I get so much from these comments.
ReadyForChange we’re with you. All of us needed to do something completely counter-intuitive and choose ourselves. Yes when the strength starts to accumulate, as you describe, it really starts working wonders. Trust me there will come a time when you will really ask yourself why the hell you ever saw anything in him at all. Imagine that! The freedom and power in that!
Well done you.
Thank you, Grizelda
I look forward to that freedom 🙂
ReadyforChange, thank you for sharing and updating on your situation. 3 months of no contact do wonders. I know what you mean about the strength. And I do think of him every day still too. But less than before. Not obsessively. This will pass too and eventually there will be days and weeks we haven’t thought of them.
I am 7-8 months past breakup and still healing. I hear what you are saying. I can relate to the feelings as you get stronger.
Inspirational. Thank you.
ReadyforChange:
Your quote: “I think I always under-reacted with him, due to the fear of losing him (when I did not have him anyway). I thought I was being assertive, since I almost always told him what I thought in a direct way, but the problem was that I was still engaging with him AFTER he had shown me he did not care and repeatedly hurt me. ”
I could have said the same thing. I was always underreacting. Always smoothing things, laughing, making a joke, forgiving immediately. Yes, the same here. I thought I was asserting myself, asking if we are on the same page, if he wants a relationship and where it is going. I used to blame myself that I asked too many times, but now I don’t see why I blamed myself. I asked the right thing but even then: What’s the point? If the person is right and the relationship is working out you don’t even have to ask!! They show with the actions. And the worst: like you are saying, continuing being with him even after all the things being wrong. So that’s not assertive at all. That’s underreacting, suppressing your emotions and not choosing you and your true reaction.
Unbelievable. Yet I am happy he came into my life. I would have been in the same place now if I had not had met him.
Yes Sofia, I now firmly believe that life will throw the same lesson at us until we eventually learn from it (I had heard this thought expressed in different ways many times before, but I never really grasped its meaning).
This time for me the lesson was being shouted loud in my ears for the whole time, yet I was going around covering them with my hands and singing rather than listen. Until the bubble burst, and I was left humiliated, pained, and in shock.
But could I say I was surprised? No, I knew all along. But I did not trust my judgement; I chose to trust him instead – who had quite deliberately showed me over and over again how untrustworthy he was. I could berate myself for getting tangled in his web; that, however, would not be helpful. After all, I had never met anyone like that, a clever and charming narcissist who targeted me as a challenging, temporary supply. Self-compassion is a more supportive response.
ReadyforChange:
Sounds like my experience, absolutely. He was clever, charming, consistent though in his behavior (phone calls, dates, etc) narcissist, 35-year old and never even lived with a woman. Never got to that stage with anyone. I was his temporary supply as well, who became very nagging and annoying by the end because of me demanding commitment from him. Yes, my bubble burst too and I am grateful it finally happened. I did have all the signs too but I chose to be blind and deaf and continued trying with him. So yes, I was not surprised as well. Nevertheless it was pain and shock. Part of it was our making, of course. We didn’t love ourselves. Now we have changed. In the retrospect, yours and mine must have been the most painful experience relationship wise in our lives. To me it was. There were some other painful ones before but nothing like this one. The deceit on his part and the confusing behavior were outstanding. The blowing hot was so charm-spelling, the cold was so attractive too, because I used to need and like the chase to validate myself.
I will remember what you said. Self-compassion. I am still low on that and gradually adding month by month, as I have been healing and reading BR.
Disproportionate responses- I’ve been mulling this theme around for days now and just read Nat’s post. Something must be in the air.
I’ve moved recently across country, the move symbolised a clean slate after my husband’s death a few years ago and the aftermath that followed, and I felt ready to plunge back into life with a clean heart. Then- when I hadn’t yet finished unpacking- my first big love from over twenty years ago popped up. We are second cousins, he’s a few years older. All those eons back when we first got together, after a few months he vanished, and I received a letter from him saying his feelings for me were as kin only, not romantic. I was an innocent young thing and was devastated, ashamed, didn’t feel good enough etc., and buried these feelings way down. I was told five years after by a great aunt that when his parents got wind of our relationship they threatened to cut him off from his immense inheritance, and he obeyed them.
But I’d occasionally see him at family gatherings, and when I moved to the UK he started to come to London regularly for work. Sometimes we’d meet, the elephant in the room was never mentioned, and it was obvious that the ‘connection’ was still firing, but seeing as I was married and so was he, I never gave the fire any air. I was cross that he had chosen to move back to where we are from to run the family businesses which he didn’t want to do, that he had obviously married a safe pair of hands, and that he had turned into stone.
After my husband’s death I began to question the ongoing underground connection between me and this second cousin- it was like a hook snagged in my heart, and I wanted it extract it, wanted to challenge it, and him. So in the last year I put everything on the table about what I knew.
Fast forward to my recent move- he came to stay at my new home in the sticks. We had a passionate week, confessions of true love and tears… and after he left I knew I had to leave the connection behind forever, couldn’t see him again. He’s married after all (though he says unhappily), and he’s stayed in the clutches of a powerful family and culture that I deliberately left behind many moons ago. And I didn’t trust him. When he stayed with me, he didn’t bring anything, drank all my wine, ate all my food, didn’t offer to take me out to supper or anything, and then when he left, he was all filled up and I was drained for a week. Not a good sign. So I wrote him this (by email, there is no other way to communicate as he lives on another continent and he’s flippin’ married). An acid response from him, and a week letter, another email in which he announced he’s told his wife he’s leaving her, and is coming to the UK very soon to discuss us being together, hope I’ll agree to see him, either for two minutes or weeks, we make a wonderful match etc.
I didn’t answer for a few days, and then went nuclear. Told him he was full of s**t, that he was way too presumptuous, that this was far too quick, why would I trust him. I blew up. All on stupid email.
Obviously this touched the old wound that I had buried and the feelings erupted. I’m trying now to separate the feelings from the past from feelings that have emerged in the present. I’m very uncomfortable about the situation. I’ve lost my appetite, churning, terribly sad and filled with mistrust. Right when I’m starting a new life. In my good moments I see this as old rubbish that has surfaced now so I can clear it out. But meanwhile the situation still hasn’t fully played out.
Proportionate or disproportionate?
Wow Jules that’s a compelling tale.
I’m afraid the only thing that occurs to me which may be of help is — don’t listen to the words, just observe the actions and behaviour. They matter more than the words. Words can be cheap and can be false and misleading. You know this already — hence your email response that he’s full of sh**. You were rejecting the words because his behaviour when he stayed with you a week was not reassuring to you. That seems proportionate I think, when you look at the whole chain of events.
If his actions don’t match his words, that’s all you need to know. If his actions do match his words, only then will it be time for you to decide whether or not this is what you want. Keep us posted? Best wishes.
Dear Jules – he sounds like real bad news from your past.I had a similar experience and it went all wrong. This guy is a cheater, a parasite. Do not risk your new life by warming up unsavioury leftovers. Make it NC!
Jules, as I’m sure you know: you have NO way of knowing if he’s telling the truth about “I told my wife that I am leaving her…”
Married men make up all KINDS of lies to blot out their wife in the minds of their side women. More than likely, he is lying and just coming to your town because he can’t take the thought of rejection from you or anyone, so now he feels renewed attraction to you now that you are moving away from him – like a greyhound chasing a stuffed toy on a racetrack.
If it’s easier for him to LIE about something rather than actually DO it (telling his wife that he’s leaving her), then he is probably lying – that’s how these men operate.
Thanks for your comments. I’ve been walking around like something large and nasty is sucking all my guts out- wondering if this is all the old feelings of abandonment and sadness I pushed away when he wimped out and buzzed off all those years ago. Lost my appetite too. I do see it as an opportunity to cleanse these yucky feelings that I didn’t even know I was carrying around, but right now it’s hard. Don’t even know why it’s hard, because I’ve no doubt he ain’t for me. Someone suggested I order a special flower remedy concoction- which I think is a little hocus pocus but I’ve done- will see how that goes. I’m impatient!
And it’s not quite the end of the story yet- whether I agree to meet him in person and I tell him face to face ‘too little too late’, or, when he comes for work, I tell him I don’t want to see him- still unclear.
To make the story even more weird- it goes way back to my grandparents’ generation. My 2nd cousin’s grandfather disapproved of my grandmother’s choice of husband (my grandfather)- and thereafter my branch of the family was referred to as ‘those potlickers’.
I’ve done the Bach flower remedies too – I think they’re great.
Hi all,
First, Noquay, SO sorry to hear about your dad. I have been off of BR for months, and came back on recently, and just saw an old post. So sorry and my thoughts are with you as you are dutifully and lovingly handling all the things there are to do when a loved one dies. I’m sure I’ve missed hearing about the many feelings that must be churning in you regarding the end of that complex relationship.
So. Anyway, I’m back to BR after finishing two years of teaching in a small town, having a hysterectomy, and moving back to Ontario. The last term was hard because of all the bullshit around who they hired instead of me (a guy that people wrote in to say they will never work with because he has allegedly assaulted a woman colleague he was seeing outside his open marriage). I had many people tell me I got pushed out. I knew it.
But I was trying to keep going while keeping my bleeding situation under control. Then at the end of the term and the end of one attempt at treatment, things just got way worse. The hysterectomy happened in late June. My mother flew out to help me post-surgery and with the move (I had given notice before I knew the surg would happen, and couldn’t change it). My mother was amazing. I’m mostly recovered now.
I find myself back on BR in part because I finally have a bit of time and energy to read Nat’s articles (no job until Jan, when I have a 3-mo writer in residence gig), and in part because I have been trying to handle my feelings about my brother having not called or gotten in touch before the surgery (he knew for weeks, I called him) and saying some stupid mean shit, in fact, (he sat down on Skype when I was in a call to my parents about the surgery, and the first thing out of his mouth was “It’s all about you, isn’t it”? it was supposed to be a joke.) But then while I was in hospital, day of surgery then three days after, he didn’t call or email. I was pretty hurt.
When I texted the day I was leaving hospital to ask why he hadn’t gotten in touch, he called immediately, but to say, oh, I’ve been busy with work. That stung. But then he was like, “So how are you?” I said, I don’t feel like talking to you now, when I’ve just been through something very hard, you were a no-show, and when I ask you say it was “busy with work.” So I let him go, and then he barraged me with emails and calls for three days that I didn’t answer. I finally texted when he started calling my mother because he was “so worried.” I texted, only to stop the calls to my mom, that it hurt more that he was trying to show his “sorry” and “worry” through texts and voice messages more because he felt someone was mad at him than out of concern for me (which he had his opportunity to show). He texted that I was right and deserved far more than a text apology. Ok, good, that helped, I thought.
Fast forward to now: I’ve been back in the province for a month. I’ve seen him at family functions three times. He never called to ask to get together, for the face-to-face apology he said via text that I deserve. I’m polite and engage him at these events; it would cause a lot of drama to try to not talk to him at all. He says “we should get together” the one time. I’m like sure. He doesn’t follow up. The next time we see each other at a family thing, he’s like, let’s hang out. I say okay. Saturday. Ok. He says, so what do you want to do?
I’m thinking, WTF? You’re asking me, aren’t you?
But I say I’ll think about it, go away, research events, then text on Tuesday aft to say there’s a festival on Saturday, will that work? Nothing. That evening, worried my phone will die before he gets back to me, I text again saying my phone might die, try me on FB. Nothing. My phone doesn’t die til the next day, then I got my charger from where I’d left it. Juice it up. Nothing. Nothing on FB. My brother didn’t respond for three days. On the second day, Thu, I was already very upset. It felt like he just ignored my texts.
On Friday, (yest), he gets me on FB to say, “Have you thought about tomorrow”? He lets me know he’s working til late aft on Sat. I say: You haven’t texted for three days. I went ahead and made other plans. He’s like, okay, smiley face! But then he said he sent a msg asking if I wanted to go to a play in the park, “but I guess you didn’t get it.”
I felt he lied, then. My phone will let me know who texted once my battery is charged. He didn’t try to get me on FB. So now I’m feeling: you say stupid mean jokes, you blanked me while I was in the hospital, you didn’t say you were “worried” until someone got mad, you said I deserve a real apology but then don’t make any move to set up a sit-down, then when we finally have a plan to go out (me hanging on every word hoping he’s going to acknowledge how bad it felt to know my brother couldn’t pick up the phone), he doesn’t respond to my text for 3 days, and acts like it’s no biggie that we’re not getting together, then you lie?
I have cried more over this in the past couple days than anything to do with my health (I cried that out last August, though of course finally losing my uterus, hope for babies, etc has been very very hard). I don’t think I’m overreacting. But I did send, after the comment about me “not getting” a msg he sent, a letter I wrote on the Thursday explaining how I felt, saying I was “stepping back.” I was crying as I wrote. And sent. I would have preferred to say it all in person but not after he last-minuted me on our meeting. Then I unfriended him on FB (I sent the letter on FB because that’s where we had this whole exchange). I have no idea if he read what I sent, and no idea if all our correspondence has been deleted because of the unfriend.
Anyway, fuck fuck fuck. Feels like way too much drama. I don’t know how else I might have handled it. I really put a lot of stock into moving back to this province to be around my family. My brother has always been unreliable around communication, but to not pick up the phone when my mom is across the country to help me with a surgery feels like too much to just do the usual, “Well, you know he’s like that.” My sis seems of the opinion that “he didn’t mean it, you know how he is.” So I can’t mention how I feel.
I’m not sure how to step back other than not call, not be in touch, which won’t mean much to him. God, it’s like breaking up with the AC all over again, feeling crazy for trying to get someone to make their actions match their words. I’ve been reading and rereading NML’s posts on boundaries with family and “is it ok when someone disappoints you …?” Any thoughts you can share will be appreciated.
Other than that, I’ve started a new chapter in life. I’m living with my parents (!) during this recovery time from surg and before I start my new work gig in January. It’s a decent arrangement; I’m writing and regrouping from all the many things that went on this spring. Hope everyone at BR is enjoying these last few weeks of summer!
Mags
Good to hear from you. You stated it well: dealing with the bro is like being with an AC or EU because that’s exactly what the situation is. Kinda like getting blood from a stone. He is unable to give of himself. You’ll have to pretty much write him off; I know that’s hard. Sorry about the hysterectomy, but now, without the horrid bleeding, you’ll have a lot more energy.
Flying out tomorrow to conduct papa sans memorial service, then deal with the issues at work etc but that’s a whole nother comment.
Noquay, it IS hard. I have been focusing on “being nearer to family / spending more time with my brother” as one of the main upsides to this change in circumstance. Hope the memorial (sans memorial?) service went well. ((hugs))
Mags
Sorry, my bad. “Papa San” is Japanese slang for father. My ex spent a lot of time in Japan and the name stuck. Conducted the service atop a bluff overlooking his town. The rest of his ashes go atop some mountainthe to the east of my house. I feel for you Mags; it’s hard to reconnect with relatives, especially sibs, and find they’re not there for you. You could try and have a talk with him, but keep in mind that much like AC boyfriends, he may not “get it”.
Magnolia,
I feel like I can respond to your comment because I have similar issues with my brother, that I have written about on here a few times.
It has similarly been his lack of concern that has made me hurt, frustrated, and very angry. One example was when I was going away alone to a dangerous country for a few months, and he didn’t make the effort to see me beforehand. I pretty much had to chase him after he let me down. I’ve felt that he wouldn’t care if I died or if he never saw me again – devastating. I can’t imagine how hurtful it is for you that your brother wasn’t there during/after surgery, and I’m sorry you’ve been through this.
My brother would similarly make half-assed apologies, by text just about admitting he was being unsupportive, or saying it if I called him, but not showing it in his actions, explaining or taking the time to say it face to face.
So I don’t want to project my experiences onto you, but just to share a few thoughts in the hope they are helpful.
Could this be, on his part, a shunning of responsibility? In my case, our parents were unable to look after us, and unlike the films, books etc. where siblings look out for each other, he just cared for himself. I think now, if he gets too close to me as a person, he has to face guilt for it (though I would understand and support him if he just talked to me). I am also probably a connection to an unhappy history he would rather escape from, and there are jealousy/resentment issues thrown in. Do you have a story that might have led him to distance himself?
Whether or not your story is similar, it is not about us, but about them and sometimes the circumstances. It is very hard to accept that your brother isn’t there for you, but the acceptance of this fact is liberating. It very quickly gave me more confidence and strengthened existing and new relationships. I realised after 10 years of this, that it wasn’t just a phase or related to some dispute, this was who he was. Before, it was unthinkable that the person who knew me best, who I grew up with, couldn’t support me (what would that say about me?) – then I learned to see it differently. This person, through disengaging for so many years, barely knew me at all, and saw the worst of me (timid and defensive) since he would be so hostile or plain nasty a lot of the time. My friends really know me much better and stick around out of choice.
Learn not to take it personally. He must be pretty mixed up to be such a poor brother and when he realises he’s lost your trust, he’ll regret it.
I’ve realised the absurdity of asking someone to care about you more than they do, it just will not happen like this. It’s also unlikely he will suddenly realise how hurtful his lack of concern has been, since you’ve already told him and he hasn’t reacted. You won’t be the one to give him the epiphany. This would be a classic case of trying to control the uncontrollable. Focus on the people that do care, it’s wonderful that you have a good mother.
The acceptance that he is incapable of being a loving, supportive sibling, that this isn’t about you and you can’t change it, creates peace and enables you to heal the wounds of his behaviour. In my case it had an effect on my relationships because it made me feel worthless, and I carry a lot of anger about this. I now realise if history repeats itself and I have to confront someone about their lack of care or worry about it, something is very wrong and I need to disengage instead of demand or expect more.
Since these realisations, I get on better with my brother. I restrict my time with him and limit my energy towards him, I stay just friendly enough to be able to see his kids without drama. Maybe his attitude towards me will thaw, but my attempts to chip at it with an icepick won’t work and have only pushed him away in the past.
Stepping back by not calling will hurt you more than him if you keep your current mindset, this was always my problem. But then look at things as they ARE, not as they should be or once were. What is he offering you? Who is he in your direct and recent experience? How does he make you feel? Do you really need more disappointment and meanness? Your action needs to take the principles of NC – you don’t act to change his behaviour (control the uncontrollable), but instead to do the best by you. It’s not easy. The brother ideal is so important, and it’s sad to feel alienated from this special relative. But recognise it’s his failure and loss more than yours.
Happy B thanks so much for this detailed comment, which I have read and reread a half dozen times. I can’t get over that this person that I spend every Christmas with, go for drinks with when I’m in town, etc, blanked me so completely and now is avoiding trying to talk it out. I was telling a friend about it today and she said, “But I thought you two were close!?” So did I, I said. I’m sure I’ll read your comment another half dozen times or more to help it sink in …
Thanks Magnolia, how long has it been like this? It truly is like dealing with an AC when the reality seeps in, but it’s different in that you don’t have to be so absolute. Things could change in the future, but in dealing with the present, emotional investment can be wound back in and the harm dealt with properly. From your brother’s flippant ‘all about you’ comment, I think there could be resentment problems underneath it. It’s ridiculous for this to be the case in your time of struggle, but not unheard of in my experience. It’s not personal, if a brother can’t give you unconditional love, there’s something wrong with him!
happyb, he has been making little digs for a few years; about a year or two ago, when I was back home, I met him in a coffee shop specifically to ask what’s up and address his meanness. he admitted to it, said he’d change, and it seemed as though he was trying. so that comment was like his old self had come back, but the not-calling thing was actually a surprise, he’s not great at being in touch but usually calls on birthdays, and is chatty when we do get together. It makes me feel like he can do surface, pretend to like me, say “love you, sister,” when it needs to be said, but that going deeper is too much. My friend was just diagnosed with cancer and she says many friends told her not to expect guys to be able to handle it, that many men would withdraw/clam up. Her partner hasn’t. I’m particularly sensitive to statements like “a lot of guys just can’t handle that stuff”.
I watched my dad disconnect while my mom shouldered years of grief caring for her aging mom, not offering a bit of comfort and claiming he didn’t like to go to old age homes because of the smell and so wouldn’t accompany her. No one called him on it. I was disgusted. My dad is marginally better now.
But I still can’t fathom my brother doing the same to me. When you say “emotional investment can be wound back in and the harm dealt with properly” – this is what I’m struggling with. How to wind it back? How do I ‘properly’ deal with the harm?
Magnolia, to start with the end of your comment, I guess it depends on the harm. For me it was believing I must be unloveable and all kinds of other negative things, because I was being kicked down by the person I looked up to the most. This contributed to my acceptance of AC behaviour. Or there is the more immediate harm of simply being hurt. So to deal with it takes unpacking the effects, managing the anger by writing unsent letters and finding other ways to vent, and having a change in attitude. Winding back emotional investment meant a kind of closure to me. I’d already told him a few times that I believed he didn’t care and explained the kinds of things he did to make me feel that way, and he kept doing them. So there was no need to send him a letter or try talking it out, or try to fix things. It’s just like it happens with an AC, where you realise there’s nothing to discuss anymore and nothing to be done, so you eventually turn away and reach out to people and things that nurture you instead of harm you. You invest in those instead. I am open to change and healing with my brother, but also have never felt so liked and appreciated – by the world/people – as when I realised how nasty his behaviour was and started keeping contact to a bare minimum, so I’m not going out of my way with him.
I think I see what you mean about the ‘guys can’t handle it’ comment, have seen a few instances of selective ‘can’t handle it’ behaviour.
What I wonder is that your brother said he’d address his meanness, but did he explain it at all? I found from my brother and ACs that they’ll quite readily admit their upsetting behaviour, but not attempt to discuss or figure out the roots of it. I really hope you both mend things eventually, but he’s not being helpful to you now.
Magnolia,
Your brother grew up in a house where emotional availability wasn’t demonstrated.
Your dad didn’t support your mum during a difficult time for her your brother would have been watching this and learning from it.
So I would imagine it would be difficult for your brother to know how to act in what are very personal circumstances for you.
I’m sure he has displayed this behavior in the past but maybe the circumstances of the situation were maybe more external and it wasn’t as noticeable or you were able to brush it off more easily.
I’m not saying what he did was right I just don’t think he has the right tools to know how to help you or what to say to you so he just avoids it.
If he knows he will be told off each time you two meet he will probably avoid you further.
Unfortunately have I just learned from my own set of circumstances we can never get someone to act as we would wish them too.
I told a friend that my step-dad was in hospital and the next 24 hours were critical as to whether he lives or dies.
I heard not one word from this person for at least two weeks after I told them that news. The only reason I did hear something was I got in contact first.
By the time I did get in touch my step-dad had died and I had attended the funeral.
I was so angry and this person and I am still upset to this day. But looking back this person has never stepped up so what was I expecting?
I did tell them how I felt but I have to accept I cannot change this person to how I want them to be and it hurts.
I sincerely hope you and your brother work things out,
Magnolia.
Happy,
Your comment was profound.
I too, had issues with my brother. We had an off and on again relationship, due to jealousy – he believed parents favored me, this was untrue, as they favored one another. A year after he was diagnosed with lung cancer, he cut me out. This was heartbreaking, as I loved this man more than I loved anyone. He was my best friend. I was angry, and made several attempts to reconcile, but I had to respect his decision, as he was dealing with so much. Three weeks before he passed, I decided to fly back to my home state and give it another try, and thankfully, he let me in – one of his friend’s had told me that he had to stop treating me like a bastard. Every time, we parted, we told one another that we loved one another – had never done that . I was also given the gift of being his advocate, and I can say that those final weeks are the most precious of my life.
I don’t know where I’m going with this, but I do believe you can find peace without the loss of a loved one. I hope with time, that you and Magnolia will be able to have a loving relationship with your brothers. If they are open to getting to the root of the issues, you can move forward to something loving and healthy.
Hugs
Allison, thank you for sharing this. I can’t imagine how painful it was to lose your brother and I’m pleased you found peace and precious time together.
I’m all too aware of our short time on this planet and that’s why my brother’s behaviour baffles me. We might heal one day and he certainly doesn’t want me entirely out of his life, but I think he’d have to address some very deep issues and turn his whole narrative upside down to be caring and loving, I can’t even imagine it anymore. I guess the fragility of life can cut through all the emotional numbness but for him, it seems to increase it.
Thank you for your kind wishes.
Hugs
Natalie,
I self-censor because I know I have to be on guard. I guard against activation and bad habits.
Triggers are tough. If I’m not mindful, I’ll spin out in a matter of seconds.
Yep, I want to be perfect when it comes to avoiding activation. I want to be able to identify a trigger, and then prevent activation, so I mean to annihilate all negative behavior patterns because these patterns are negatively impacting my life and the lives of others.
One of the most valuable things I’ve learned from you Natalie is to respect other people’s boundaries, (I’m someone who grew up not knowing what a boundary was).
So, when I spin out, I try to make sure I respect other people’s boundaries, even when they are disrespecting mine.
I’ve stopped telling people about themselves. I really try to judge the situation and act in accordance to my value system.
I especially don’t ever want to insult my man, when I get one–ha! I won’t treat him like a child, but I won’t accept anything less than a man.
I won’t tolerate disrespect from either of us. I want a man who is loving, respectful, caring, honest, compassionate, strong, and trustworthy, and he will receive in kind from me. He’s my man. Why would I want to tear him down?
(Intelligence is hot, so yep, boy is going to have to have a banging brain.)
It’s funny, the bastud-box dude gave me a really great technique to use when I feel stressed and ready to yell at someone–go figure–it works like a charm; I feel like he sprinkled angel dust on my temperament.
I want to add something to my list: I also want someone who is wise. My partner has to have a certain level of emotional intelligence, and they have to live their values, and we have to share similar values.
And he has to live his values
Hi Ladies
I commented further back about finding out that a guy i had dated on and off for a couple of years actually goes on vacation with his ex and son several times a year. I have been sending him texts on and off for a week basically venting my anger at them both. I think he has blocked me or is just ignoring me as I haven’t had one reply. I sent a text earlier today saying that i wouldnt contact him again but in future he should try to be honest with people. Still no response. I really wish I hadnt reacted at all I just feel embarrassed now and he probably thinks i’m some sort of stalker! I was just so hurt and angry and I didnt want him to just get away with it. I’m so hurt that he hasn’t even apologised or tried to explain. Its as though now I know the truth he has just wiped me out of his life as though I never existed. How can I salvage some dignity and self esteem from this?
Ah Nicola I’m so sorry. I think thousands of us who read BR have been in your place, so please don’t feel like you’re weird or odd. Please don’t feel ashamed!
Ok so your texts right now are like shouting into a damp dark hole. You have no idea if anyone’s down there, if anyone’s hearing you, or if you’re just being ignored. You have nothing but the echoes of your own voice. You have two choices. You can shout yourself hoarse and continue to get no response from the bottom of that hole, or you can just stop, stand up, and walk away. They can stay in the damn hole. That’s No Contact.
I’m biased because NC worked wonders for me, but I can’t recommend it highly enough considering where you are right now, crouched over the edge of that stinking old hole for a whole week. If you have the tenacity to do that, the discipline of No Contact will probably be a doddle for you, once you get past the first few days. You’ll feel so much better about yourself, so much stronger, and your dignity will be intact!
The truth is, he should be feeling embarrassed and ashamed.
To salvage your dignity and self esteem, keep reading this site. Check out the archive of posts and read the articles that appeal to your situation. Sign up for notices on this site for when a new article is posted.
People, such as the man you describe, have no manners, etiquette or basic decency. They take and take from people, and when they give it’s only a transaction to get. They can’t give to others – they are constantly on the lookout for what they can grift from people, emotionally. Some part of him is likely very flattered that a woman – you- are affected by him.
It’s sick, but these guys get a definite ego stroke even when someone is expressing their disappointment in them. He is not a decent person. He does not deserve your communication. Delete him from your life. Stop communicating with him in any fashion, and if you must talk about him, I suggest doing so anonymously (so no gossip gets back to him) either online – like here- or with a trustworthy professional. What I have done is NOT use the guy’s real name when talking to a professional or online.
Remember, this guy is GROSS to all women, with nothing to give partners but the privilege of jumping through his neverending hoops of bullshit.
You didn’t LOSE anything by losing him. Any decent man would sympathize with you and recognize that this man is a romantic con artist.
Nicola, Try to focus on the fact that you’ve had the right emotional reaction to this ~ it’s not acceptable and you don’t want to continue to be involved with him. These types don’t want to have a mature and honest conversation or offer an apology ~ it makes sense in a way, since a more honest person wouldn’t behave as he did in the first place. Don’t worry about how you’ve reacted, you’re human and you’re allowed to be angry. At this stage though, the best thing to do is to stop contacting him altogether. There’s nothing left to say, and continuing to contact him is just giving him more power.
Nicola, your anger is healthy and a good sign. Don’t feel ashamed of it or like you should go back in time. PLENTY of women and men who get tangled with these narcissistic Assclowns can’t muster up enough self esteem to get angry. People roll over and doubt their own judgment for YEARS staying in toxic relationships and even getting married.
Your response means that you have what it takes to watch out for yourself. MAybe you’d like to polish your response in the future, but for now it means that you won’t take shit from this a-hole, so good!
“If you responded to someone’s lies and deception by feeling upset, by reducing your trust levels, by feeling angry, betrayed, confused or whatever, guess what? You’re normal. If you can’t pretend that it didn’t happen, especially when issues that contribute to the lies and deception are continuing, guess what? Yep, you’re still normal. If you feel that you’d like to get some clarification, explanations and assurances before you feel that you could even think about proceeding, well hey, guess what? You’re still normal. If you would like that person to demonstrate in their subsequent interactions with you that they are in fact trustworthy, it is the least they could do after what amounts to a serious breach of trust.
These are not overreactions. They are legitimate and justified under the circumstances. Depending on what they’ve been up to, if they’re still in your life, you may not have reacted enough. Yet.
When somebody crosses your line and then tells you that you’ve overreacted and even suggests that you’re the problem, it’s time to flush. People with integrity don’t run around busting boundaries and invalidating people’s feelings on the matter. Certainly don’t bust your own boundaries or invalidate your feelings on their behalf.”~~NML
BUT
“When you Tell Them All About Themselves, if they have already drawn less than flattering conclusions about what you will and won’t put up with from them and how much self-esteem you have, by telling them their flaws and/or crimes, you end up reconfirming that you’re the type of person that by your own admission would put up with someone treating them without love, care, trust, and respect, because you want them and the relationship or perception of one, more than you value a quality relationship and self-respect.”~~NML
https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/telling-them-all-about-themselves-why-its-not-your-job-to-list-their-flaws-and-crimes/
Thank you ladies for your comments. You are right if he was the sort of person to apologise and explain then he probably wouldn’t have been so dishonest in the first place. I’m glad you don’t think I overreacted. My best friend said no woman will put up with him going away with his ex even if it is just as friends and for the sake of their son. Fine be friends but going away is a bit much when you are meant to be with someone else.
Nicola,
This is a very difficult subject and I don´t think it´s a black-or-white situation. It is possible for an ex-couple to go together on vacation as civilized friends only, for the sake of their kid. It´s also possible for an ex-couple to remain friends, and to go on a trip together (no kids) with nothing romantic or sexual going on. Then, there are also ex-couples who do these things because they (or one of them) still have feelings for each other.
The thing is, you don´t really know which of these situations it is you´re dealing with. But you have to be able to evaluate that, and this would only be possible if they involved you somehow in the set up, and didn´t hide things from you.
My parents divorced years ago, but they still have a good friends-only relationship. In the beginning, my dad´s new partner was very reluctant to let him celebrate Christmas with me and my kids because my mother would be there too. It was a very stressful situation for all of us because we all felt a grandfather should be able to see his grandkids on such an occasion, and I was terribly hurt and upset when he just came over for about half an hour on Christmas. Afterwards, my dad´s new partner was told by her own family that she shouldn´t have reacted that way, that Christmas was more important for kids than for grownups, and that she shouldn´t be so childish about it. So as time passed, we all reached a compromise, and I must say I´ve come to appreciate my stepmom and we have a good relationship, though sometimes she can be a bit silly. Sometimes when I go on vacation with my mom and my kids, my father will come over for a couple of days, and it´s no problem at all.
Of course, my stepmother now has grandchildren of her own, so that helps her put things in perspective.
I have a civilized relationship with my ex too, but it´s all for the sake of our kids. We have absolutely no romantic or sexual thing whatsoever going on. But when he was living with someone else he did hide this from her and I always felt it was a problem because things would´ve been easier if it were done out in the open. My children would´ve been more relaxed around this girl if they didn´t feel their dad was hiding her from me and me from her.
Anyway, I don´t mean to say that you over-reacted. If you felt left out or disrespected, it´s because you most likely were. You have to follow your gut in these situations, and I think that is what you did. I just wanted to give a different view on the topic of how to relate with a new partner´s previous family. After we reach a certain age we can´t just erase our past, especially when there are children and/or grandchildren involved.
What I also need to do is stop looking at his ex’s facebook page! She is really pretty and sounds really intelligent and happy with her life so that just gets me comparing myself and feeling down.
Hi Nicola,
Facebook, as you know is not always what it seems to be.
Please don’t take what you see at face value.
There is a post on here about Facebook, check it out.
I deactivated my FB account in May. It was the best thing I did for myself as I was doing the same thing as you. Not with the beach guy but with the guy who I loved & adored (another EU, who also was a cheat)
he broke my heart years ago and I still never really got over him.
That is a whole other story for BR!
Reading BR has helped a lot and I am working on taking care of me now.
There is a whole lot of dishonesty out there and learning not to have any expectations is the way to go. It’s not easy but it’s the only way.
Take care of you!
Lilia
Yes I understand what you mean but like you say I don’t really know which of the situations it is. If he had been honest I could have maybe been ok with it. Thing is he changed his story as he always told me that they didn’t get on and couldn’t be alone without arguing and that she had mental problems. Then when I found out that they go away together he suddenly said that if I cant understand that they can be friends without it being sexual then that says something about me! He lied every time he went away! Anyway I don’t actually think he cared about me as he hasn’t even tried to explain he has just completely ignored me since I found out.
Wow, I am so glad I stumbled upon this website. It’s simply amazing, and seems to have a very compassionate readership. I am in a situation a little like Leslie’s. A few years ago I met the brother of a very close friend. We live in different states and he began to text and write occasionally, and often asked me to visit. I never did as it wasn’t convenient, but a few months ago we decided to meet up for a long weekend. It was fabulous and intimate, and we began communicating a lot after that. I was going to be in his area quite a bit over the summer and he asked that I visit. I ended up spending another five days with him over the summer. Before I left, I told him I would miss seeing him (I am a teacher and won’t be able to travel now that the school year is starting). He had talked about visiting me in pretty vague terms, and made comments beginning with “the next time you are here,” however I left there a week ago, and apart from a text asking me if I got home alright, I haven’t heard a word from him. We were speaking every couple of days throughout the summer (he’s not a texter, always phoned). I know we never defined anything and he doesn’t really owe me anything, but I am a bit baffled. I am glad I found this site because I was thinking of writing him an email putting my feelings for him on the table and asking him what’s going on. Now, however, I am thinking of just letting it go. Any insights? I am so confused!
Sierra,
Please don’t send him an email.
Always look at someone’s actions, as they will say it all. Also, he is long distance, so it would be difficult to have anything substantial. I would let this go.
Sierra, I don’t think there’s any harm in talking to him about how you feel and asking where he stands. You may get some clarity, and if he doesn’t really answer, well, that’s an answer in itself. I would be hesitant to put your dating life on hold to “wait” for this guy based on what you’ve described ~ I know you had a great time with him, but he doesn’t seem to be making an effort to take things any further.
Sierra- This guy’s Mr. Casual. He enjoys your company, it seems, and may be sexually attracted to you but it seems more of fwb situation, ya know? I had a similar experience this past weekend and it IS fabulous but see and accept it for what it is. My weekend guy is casual, just here for a few days. Yet, he put some effort out to see me. What effort is your guy putting in?
This column is about overreacting but what about when you can’t stop giving yourself grief for underreacting? My story is in my first comment (on another column). I wish my reactions throughout this escapade had been proportional but of ALL the times I should have at least been firm and stood up for myself and my dignity it was the last time we met. But I completely let him off the hook and can’t stop reliving the scene in my mind and wishing I’d said x, y, z and shown a little outrage (as opposed to whimpering desperation and sadness).
Hello Trainee,
I read your story. So you still can react, just stick to NC ( but real NC without trying to win him back ). Give yourself time and distance. If it was really mutual, then there shouldn’t be a need to react and you wouldn’t have any doubts and insecurities.
The good thing is that now you have BR, the support of the readers and of course your life experience so far. Also now you know better, what you want from a relationship.
I found, that our reactions can’t change the final outcome of the relationship. If we stay passive we can delay the breakup or to stay in “dead” relationship. We can’t change others people behavior with our actions … the only way that we can do that is by abuse and manipulation, but for sure this is not my stile!
Many men for example think, that if they don’t seduce and have sex with a woman at the end of the first date, then they can’t have relationship with this woman. They / We think that the woman will find somebody else if there is no sex at the beginning. I am not a woman 🙂 but you assume that you see the “right” timing and stupidity of this reaction.
I revisited all my relationships so far and I found, that always I was the person that asked, what’s wrong, so this initiated the breakup talk( the other party just said, that we have to stop meeting each other and etc. ) I don’t think that there was right reaction, because the outcome would be the same – breakup … my partners already had something in mind. I don’t believe that I my question was delayed, then the outcome would be different.
Get the support from the BR ladies and give yourself time to heal!
Good luck!
I need help. My AC unfriended me on FB three weeks.ago, when I tezted him to ask what’s up? He replied: I met someone two weeks ago and she posted something on my FB and I didnt want you to see it. And”There was no overlap” geezuz, I am still in utter shock over it all. I hadnt seen him in about two wks, because a lot of stuff happened, one of his friends died, the transmission in his car went etc. And I was just giving him some space and then I went on vacation for a week. I eagerly picked out a souvenir for him and couldn’t wait to see him. We have been seeing each other for almost three yrs. Off and on. Lots of drama and getting back together, great sex, him not being sure.he wanted a relationship. Etc etc. I know you’ve all heard it before. I even thought sometimes.over the years, that the only way I would be free of him is if he broke up with me. I.am very hurt, have missed work. Can’t stop.thinking about him. Not contacting because I.don’t want him to.think I am.crazy, but I have to.fight.the urge every day. Anyway, we live in a small.town, and we both work in this small.town, too. We.have already crossed.paths in our cars three times, I just totally turned.my.head.away. I cant look at him, and then it upsets me.all.day. I am.trying.to stay busy, and.I am.seeing a therapist. I just want to be happy again and even though I know.its for.the best, I continue.to have fantasies about.him “coming to.his senses” etc. I think my ego is.bruised.because.he left me.for.someone else. And I know.that this time we really are NOT getting back together. I feel used and.humiliated. I am 56 and he is 49 and.yes, the new.woman is ten yrs younger, skinnier,.etc. ugh. I try to tell myself to feel.sorry for.her.but I’m having a hard time. My friends have witnessed everything over the last three yrs and they are thrilled that it’s over. But they don’t want to.hear about it anymore. And.it’s only been three weeks. I.still.feel.in.shock like he.died. one minute, I’m looking forward to seeing him.and the next minute I’m dumped. I did react initially and said a few things he said he was sorry and he never meant hurt me. I texted him two more times after that and he didn’t respond. Now.its been two wks.of NC but I dread running into him I dont want him to see me unhappy. I’m a grown woman and I feel like a teenager. Thanks.for.listening.
Echoes,
This guy is a spineless creep!!!
He dumps you by de friending you on FB! He almost 50, and this is how he ends things! Not only did he cheat on you, but he didn’t even have the simple courtesy to tell you after three years of dating that he was with someone else.
There are many red flags in your story: On and off, lot of drama, not sure he wanted a relationship, lying. Unfortunately, this was never going anywhere, and there was no commitment on his end. I’m curious, did he take you out, and did you meet family and friends?
Please want more for yourself, as this guy has disrespected you, and was never part of any type of relationship.
Also, block and delete all forms of contact, so that you cannot reach out.
Thanks for replying, Alison. I met some of his friends.his parents, no. I know I’m better off without him.every time we got back together after a breakup it seemed like things were progressing. But in reality, it was at a snail’s pace.I think I had myself convinced that he was “broken” and that if I hung in there, it would all work out. I’m just impatient, I guess, wIting for this to be a distant memory. I feel used and humiliated. I feel like everything I still in believed was all in my head. I hate to say it but I feel like if he said and did certain things, I would take him back. believe it or not there were some fun times, we did go out a lot to eat, we went hiking,movies,etc.but in between the good times there was a lot of heartache and drama. I haven’t contacted him and I don’t plan on contacting him. I dont want him to think I’m crazy and I feel like it’s the only way I can keep some dignity. I just dread running into him, very much. And yes it does piss me off and sadden me, that he is just off living his life while I am trying to pull myself together.