By the time I met the boyf, I had accomplished something that a year or so before I hadn’t been entirely sure was a possibility – I was over my ex, the guy with a girlfriend. This was despite us not only working in the same company, sometimes having to work on the same clients, and sharing mutual friends. A year before I’d been in immense pain over the whole debacle and my self-worth was in shreds and it took Herculean strength for me to walk away from the damaging dynamic and instigate No Contact, albeit a slightly watered down version as we had to work together still.
I have no problem admitting that initially, I hoped it would galvanise the “cowardly, spineless, twit” (it’s exactly what I called him) into ‘doing the right thing’. In retrospect, I realise I had no idea what was good for me…or even right for me…
I got on with my life but my heart, pride, and soul hurt immensely, and initially I felt extremely unhappy with myself and questioned my value.
Of course I bounced out of being with him to being with the guy who would end up doing me the biggest favour by triggering the epiphany that made me see myself, life, and relationships in a totally different way. A five month barely there relationship where I spent more time pondering what was going on than actually knowing what was going on and faced with a relapse of my immune system disease and the implications of that, I was finally forced into looking a hell of a lot closer to home and stop seeing things as a run of bad luck that was out of my hands. It is amazing how much we can focus on everyone else and what they’ve done to ‘make’ us feel this way but when I recognised that I am the common denominator to all my relationships, I realised that I was making myself feel that way, not least because I kept throwing myself into oncoming traffic and then wondering why it hurt.
I’m a firm believer that relationships serve to teach us about ourselves, and life will keep throwing the same lessons at us until we heed the lesson.
A few months went by and despite moving on with my life, tackling my illness head on, and starting to love and like myself, very deep in the back of mind, there was still a part of me that wanted the ultimate validation of my ex leaving his girlfriend and choosing me. This was in spite of the fact that I was finding less and less reasons to like, never mind love him, and I didn’t actually like myself when I was around him.
He was jealous and possessive and with him, I went into drama queen mode. Long time readers and anyone who bought my ebook Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl will know that what started the whole no contact was when his jealousy and aggression triggered a panic attack that left me doubled up on a London street and because he was more concerned with being home for a call from his girlfriend than looking out for my welfare, he put me on a packed London tube…on my own, to go home. It took me three weeks to recover and the mental impact lasted longer.
Two kids and the boyf later plus a vastly different sense of self, remembering that event serves as a stark reminder of the me who didn’t like or love herself enough that she would allow someone to treat her in this way.
Even after all that had happened though, at a company event, he went on his usual jealous, drunken tirade and I remember exploding in frustration, arguing in the street, and agreeing to let him come back to my place. I forgot myself briefly and then I remember looking at him and seeing him being exactly as he always was, and catching a glimpse of myself and realising that I was somebody entirely different to who he thought I was and that I actually didn’t want ‘this’ or him.
I felt cold and detached. In my darker days of no contact, when I had secretly hoped he’d make me the exception, I’d always thought that if I allowed myself to let him get close, that it would be electric, the chemistry and passion would still be there – it wasn’t. My imagination had been holding on to something that didn’t exist.
‘We’ didn’t exist now that I actually had some self-love.
But I had to Suck It and See (taste the experience and see what the results were) to discover this because, maybe, I would always have wondered about ‘us’, whereas falling briefly off the wagon for less than a couple of hours shut the door on a painful part of my life where I’d had little love, care, trust, and respect for myself and had given this guy too much room in my airspace.
I want to clarify, this doesn’t mean run out and fall off the wagon but if you do fall off the wagon, use the experience to empower yourself to get out of denial and continue with NC.
Suck It and See is when instead of spending more time thinking about what you might or could do, you decide to spare yourself the time and energy by just getting on with it and killing off your curiosity.
Falling off the wagon is not just about sleeping with someone – in fact, it’s all forms of breaking contact. If you’re worried about taking the call, responding to an email, responding to a text, or whatever it is – spending copious amounts of time worrying about taking the call etc is a waste of time if done on an extended basis.
I have come across a lot of women who broke contact, took the call, and then found themselves deserted/ignored by the assclown which served as a major reminder of why they should be NC and they stayed NC afterwards. These women worried about these calls etc for months and even though the assclowns behaviour hurt, the curiosity got killed in a far shorter time period.
You do have to agree to be honest with yourself, go in with both eyes open, and accept whatever you discover. If pondering the what if’s, but’s, maybe’s and possible fairytale endings is weighing on your mind for an extended period of time and you’re trapped in indecision, Suck It and See means you take action. In doing this, you have to recognise that you are potentially opening yourself up to pain, but if you go in with both feet in reality instead of floating in on a hopes and dreams bubble, the actual potential to be hurt is far less, because you gain on getting your final closure.
Suck It and See is the type of thing you should do once when it comes to going back to an old relationship/partner. That’s taking the call, replying to the email, hopping into their bed etc.
Don’t give yourself license to keep engaging by claiming that you’re sucking it and seeing it – you’re not. Instead, you’re not accepting the information that venturing back is telling you and you’re caught in a cycle of breaking up and getting back together which communicates that you are not to be taken seriously. This is called being in denial, something that will work against you NC or not.
In the ‘aftermath’ of my backslide, I panicked and initially carried on like I was ‘doomed’ until I realised I was being a total drama queen and I could make it as big or small as I wanted it to be, so it became tiny and insignificant.
Falling off the wagon isn’t what I intended but it is what happened. I knew it was over forever there and then. I’d spent most of that year looking back and wondering if he’d ever catch me up, and instead, now, I looked forward and never looked back and of course, he never did catch me up and I didn’t want him to.
If you’ve been spending many months or even a year obsessing about a relationship that has ended and pondering whether you should give it one last try, seriously, please go and put your hand in the fire. There is no 100% outcome. If you’re trying to figure it out to the nth degree and get concrete guarantees – it’s not going to happen.
I listened to a woman talk incessantly about her ex. She switched from obsessing about if she would hear from him to obsessing, once she’d broken NC, as to whether he could give her the relationship she’d wanted – this is not being in NC. It’s called conducting your relationship in your imagination. It’s certainly not cutting contact and refocusing on yourself.
You have to take a leap of faith and either way, you have to get behind your decision, whether that is to end it or to give it a try, but do one or the other. You may discover, like I did, that what you thought could be, is actually in your imagination and if anything, the urge is driven by a need to be ‘right’ and to not feel ‘rejected’.
Some of us can weather it out and eventually the fog will clear…and some of us, have to get our hands burned. Hopefully, after you do get your hands burnt, you’ll use a combination of your gut, instincts, judgement, values, and boundaries and realise that fires burn.
Stop looking back because it’s like trapping yourself in relationship groundhog day and we can’t cling and hold onto everything just because we’re afraid to look forward to a future that doesn’t have them in it. Looking forward actually helped me to have some faith in myself and helped me change my beliefs, which changed how I felt about me and my experiences. So maybe when your imagination is working overtime, why not start imagining a more positive and confident you in the future, without the object of your thoughts.
*****I want to add for some further clarification that No Contact is No Contact but I am realistic that some of you will stray and eventually find your way back to NC. I have added further clarification throughout the post
Your thoughts?
Add to favorites
I did the ol suck it and see. We just had our 6 month anniversary 2 days ago! I’m still wary, due to our past, but I think it was a good decision that I listened to him, gave him a chance, and he has made sure that his ACTIONS match his WORDS. Quite a change from the liar liar pants on fire that I dealt with in the past. I remain on alert. Hopefully I can relax one day, but I doubt it.
Well what you’re learning from your decision to take a chance is that you you felt there was enough there to listen to, you acted upon it, but listen to the part of you that doesn’t trust. Do you not trust solely based on your own internal fears or is he actually doing something to create real external fears? If it’s the former, be careful because a relationship without trust is not a relationship that can work.
Love it! Wonderful advice. And yes, we mostly want to be “right”, as you said.
Thank you.
Thank you – I’m glad you understood the message!
Natalie,
I am finding this to be a very confusing article, as it seems to go somewhat against No Contact.
I think for many of us, advising us to Suck It And See, will be like giving us permission to go back – I mean, we will choose to read it that way, saying we are sucking it and seeing. The key problem that we women who get stuck in relationship insanity share is the ability to LIE LIKE RUGS TO OURSELVES. 🙂 So giving us any “out” will be used to lie ourselves back into the asswipe’s arms – until he drops us again.
Also, what does the term Suck it and see mean, precisely? Is this a British term?
You are a brilliant person, I am sure you will be able to clarify this article so that we are all clear. Thanks!
Hi Blaise, I have added an extra paragraph to the post above and added some clarification at different points in the post.. I think the point that clearly got lost is I wasn’t lying to myself about what happened. I’ve said to people that being involved with emotionally unavailable people and assclowns creates all sorts of issues – people can and will continue to get involved. Likewise, I am not an unrealistic person otherwise I would never have so much as written a word about falling off the wagon, going back to the person when you have been NC, and looking for attention because you feel rejected. But that would be wholly unrealistic because it does happen. There are a lot of people who do NC who are not actually committed to it and have a curiosity. There are others who are, but still get caught out. It happened to me, I wrote about the experience because it was the end of the tooing and froing for me because I kept it real, went back to NC, moved on.
It’s just a term – I could change it to Do It and See or Do It, Suck It Up and See. That curiosity – taste the experience (suck it) and see ( you discover the experience doesn’t taste that nice).
Blaise Parker,
Couldn’t agree more. I am also confused. I can’t imagine Nat giving us the ‘go ahead’ to go back to the ACs, but seeing as how I am on Day 52 of NC, and having some struggles the past few days, I also need a better interpretation. My muddled thoughts cannot be trusted at this point! 🙂
This was so funny because it’s true… “The key problem that we women who get stuck in relationship insanity share is the ability to LIE LIKE RUGS TO OURSELVES.” Well put Blaise!
see my Blaise response. I would also suggest that if you’re lying to yourself then certainly breaking contact is not a good idea as you’re already in denial.
I can see how after the long hard struggle to pull ourselves out of the A-Hole of despair it would be beneficial to see how we react to a person who once minced our minds and emotions. But only after we’re secure in our ability to say “I’m over it” and really mean it. I know that my once loved assclown has absolutely no power over me. And I take all the advice and epiphanies and apply them to my current relationship. Needless to say – this one is on my terms, however, I can also say that if I was confronted with the decision to return to my ex I would certainly NOT be the same person I was in that former relationship – and I’m sure my ex wouldnt want me now because of that.
Amen! It is an empowering feeling when you can say, wagon fall or no wagon fall, that you’re over it and you don’t give a hoot. I realised in that moment, those two very things and that actually, I hadn’t cared for a long time but I had forgotten myself and my progress. I walked away immediately without a backward glance. Good for you!
I’m on no contact, been almost a year, and I have not had the urge to get back in contact. However, I have friends who tell me things about him, his new relationship, marriage, baby on the way, etc. It has an affect on me for a couple of days, but then I move on and remember all the reasons why he was a dirtbag and that we were not meant to be together. I hate that I have a reaction to it, but I realize that I am only human. Every time it happens it’s like a scab that keeps on getting pulled off. One friend who told me they were expecting (in a text) then got upset with me for having a reaction and told me to “get over it already”. How do you deal with these so-called “friends”?
id say the so called friend who told you that and had the nerve to tell you to get over it, thrives on your pain or they would not tell you to get over it…i dont want to hear if my ex is with someone else,,it hurts no matter how much time passes…we shared alot of great times but he wasnt IN LOVE with me so he felt he had to keep disrespecting me instead of being a MAN about things.
I’d say I’ve been breaking up with Ed Turner for a year. he left his woman Ann, and went to another women bypassing me (of 3 years). I was the fool for waiting and wanting and hoping and all that balony. HE is a cheating liar and abuser of all women he comes into contact with.
I go no contact, fall off the wagon, have a disappointing shag or date with him, then go No Contact again. I can see that the gaps between falling off the wagon are longer and that each time I fall off, I observe my disappointment quicker; namely my inner voice speaks to me louder and earlier on in the Falling off the Wagon stage. Now I am clearer that the outcome of falling off the wagon is predictably disappointing. I now manage to ignore emails and texts from him and have made no replies for 3 months. I am over him and over the relationship insanity. I’m a clearer, healthier woman. It has taken a year of logging on here, obsessive reading and basically brainwashing myself into healthier thoughts and relationship patterns.
I think we all make our own journey towards finding healthy self love. I think Natalie was trying to describe how Falling off the Wagon is realistic, human but must be used to reaffirm the need to get away from abusive relationships. We must all take responsibility for ourselves and be guided by good women like Natalie. But we are in charge of our decisions, not her.
Good luck and love to all of us. XX
THREE years after I broke up with my EUM and A YEAR after our last contact I still wondered if there was a chance we could be friends or he would be decent to me. I texted him. He replied a day later with an offensive sex-related message. DING DING I finally realised he didn’t care about me and never did. Finally, I can move on completely!
So, yes, I understand what NML is saying.
Grace, I have actually had that moment. It is a very sobering experience for sure!
Hah. I’ve been down that road! I usually just call the guy, and really, he hasn’t changed much. It’s not that he’s mean to me now when I call, it’s that reality is slowly seeping in – I think my instincts are starting to tell me he’s not worth any effort!
How powerful. Think of myself in the future and nit waste time imagining!
I’m sure the suck and see concept is not a good idea in many many cases. In my opinion, if a married man is involved… NO. Not an option. If the guy is across the country? NO. If the relationship was only a few months long? NO.
In my case it was a 4yr relationship and 2 kids with him, and 4 kids total that I was raising alone. I decided to suck and see because I was in DIRE need of help. Another thing that sucked me in was the statement, “I am ready to have my actions match my words”. And then hearing him admit that he had “relationships” with 2 different women while NC with me, and those experiences made him realize he wanted to be with his family, and WHY WASN’T HE. I fell for it under duress.
Trying to trust someone who broke serious trust in many ways is not easy and not fun a lot of the time. Even 6 months in, and not ONE shady move or phone call, no MIA moments, he was able to curb the projection. No lying.. I still second guess my decision because my fears are always there. I can’t even honestly say that I can be committed to a future with him, because I just can’t believe the turn around. It’s too good to be true. So… my suck and see has put me in an even more difficult place. Deciding if I am WILLING to trust someone who broke my heart and abandoned our family.
Even when they do “change”.. that doesn’t remove the damage they previously did. We all know that narcissistic abuse is a scar. It doesn’t POOF disappear. I hope it fades more than it has. It changed me. I will never be that happy to lucky girl again. I know what my worst pain in life has been, and I am with the person who can do it to me again.
I think the S&S is too dangerous for most. Especially the “hopping into their bed, etc.” part. The hopping may be followed by dire complications, and then where are you?
Maybe a text, or a phone call, but even that can leave you diminished. What happened to ” NC equals No New Pain?”
I agree that obsession in NC (like counting the days) isn’t really NC, but moving along is better than hopping in. This may have worked for NML, but can it work for folks with lesser insight?
I wouldnt believe anyone who said they hadn’t fallen of the NC wagon, either by text or a disappointing encounter; I think you have to fall off it in order to check the frog hasn’t had the required ‘brain transplant’ in order to become decent at relationships. We fall off, it hurts, we get back on again, rinse and repeat as many times as it takes to WAKE UP. Eventually we dont fall off the wagon because the penny finally drops: if it looks and walks like the duck, it is a duck. Love that phrase Natalie.
XX
I’m sure a good 80% of all the NC posters on this site have “fallen off the wagon”…which is essentially S&S (sounds better than having a weak moment anyway). The victory is when you find out that yep…he’s still a frog.
I have had firsthand experience with this recently. Last year I started NC with my EUM because he would not leave his gf who he claimed he wasn’t happy with. But gradually at the end of the year I started to talk to him again, thinking we just could be friends. A couple of months go by and he reels me in again, this time more seriously. I felt like I was given a second chance at this and this time around made my expecations and boundaries clear to him, something I felt I didn’t to well the first time (and was feeling somewhat remorseful for). I gave it all I could, communicated openly and in the end still got the same BS. I then put the NC rule in his court by telling him to call me after he went to seek counseling (he said he was sooo confused!). He never called me back and I have no intention of contacting him either. In fact I just recenlty deleted his phone number from my contact list! I still bump into him now in my circle of frends but wonder what I ever saw in him. It feels like I needed the second chance to know that I had done everything right and that it just wasn’t going to work out anyway. I am done!
I did the exact same thing for the exact same reason. (For a minute there….I was questioning whether I had written the post earlier without realizing it) Ha
It did help me get over him so much quicker this last time because I was open and honest (with him and myself). I was less concerned with getting hurt and more interested in getting on with it….good or bad. I had 3 years of both of us provoking each other that I finally couldn’t take the mental anguish. I decided that I’d rather cry three months straight because I knew the truth instead of live with one more day of confusion. In the end, he was still an AC
I fell of the NC wagon twice in the past year and like AMC said “The victory is when you find out that yep…he’s still a frog”.
yes, I found biggest hurdle with the faker types was ME getting out from under the delusion that he was a good and desirable person.
In my case, this was truly reinforced by the incredible clueless things the EUM said to me the one time I spoke with him, a year after NC. Listening to his hoooey, after a year away from it, made me know for certain what a clown he was to me.
Fact is, though someone may have presented desirable qualities at some point, and though we chose to focus on their good points, the bad outweighs the good with these people, by a lonnnng shot. It cannot be a balanced relationship with EUP.
I’m glad you wrote this. I’m having trouble reconciling my heart with my brain. My brain (and all the articles I’m reading) say to “MOVE ON MOVE ON HE ISN’T WORTH IT!” But my heart still loves him. I was the one who walked out……. I actually tried four times to walk out before the fifth time that I actually did. A few months later I emailed him and said “we messed up, why don’t we try to get it right.” He wrote back and said NO. So, I believe that may have been the “suck it and see” thing. Now, I still have to get my heart to agree with my brain.
NML you and I have been through well im still going through a similar thing with the NC, working with the guy on the same floor for me and him being jealous and obsessive.
I’ve been NC for around 8 months and apart for around 10 months.
I know I never want to go back, I could simply never trust in him again and one of my core values is trust. I could never feel safe, content and therefore happy. He has tried fairly consistently to be friends, or get some sort of connection going, still to this day. This week I had an email asking to go for a cuppa, another one explaining how a rumour that he was seeing a girl at work was not true and in fact he was single, trying to make conversation @ work, smiles, looks all that guff.
It only makes me feel on edge, anxious, emotional and confused and that feeling is something I ended up feeling a lot of for half of the relationship. That feeling reminds me of how miserable I was and feeds even more so into never wanting to ever go back.
Every now and then ive had to send an email asking him to back off, last one was that I do not want to catch up, I have nothing to say to you and I don’t even no you anymore.
The thing for me is that I have consistently see him try to get something from me, what that might be ill never no but luckily for me through out it all ive watched HIS pattern of withdrawing, going cold, being rude/snappy back to blowing warm happened over and over again.
It happens with or with out me, it happened before me and continues with out me. That pattern, his pattern doesn’t work for me it makes me feel very anxious as I enjoy a consistent relationship. This frees me up as I know there is nothing id like to go back to, I understand the beginning wonderful stuff wasn’t really him, it was something he was trying to be or even if he is that person, there is also that dark side which taints everything anyway. What on earth is the point of being with someone who is amazing and perfect one minute but the next day can decide your all wrong for them….what changed in that time? Who knows? But he leaves you with a sense of things falling apart at any moment for no reason and you start to lose your trust in that person. As NML calls it blowing hot and cold!! This also allows me to understand that I don’t need validation from him because it was never really about me. That’s why his issues still exists.
It’s been a big long hard road and I wish so much that I didn’t have to see him 5 days per week but it is what it is and I deal with it as best I can. It’s exhausting though 🙁
I still struggle but I have also seen loads of progression, things learnt about myself and even going days where I don’t think about him. When I do think about him its not a longing to go back, its just random thoughts or yucky dreams which I hate or sort of still sorting through some of the mess left behind.
I don’t need to suck it and see….just being in a room with him makes me feel so uncomfortable that I practically bolt out.
But I can see how it can be useful for some that still believes they want their partner.
Take care everyone
“I understand the beginning wonderful stuff wasn’t really him, it was something he was trying to be or even if he is that person, there is also that dark side which taints everything anyway.”
This should be embroidered on a pillow.
what a timing post! He already has a girlfriend of 6 months so the term NC doesnt apply to me here but it does when it comes to ALL of my friends. They decided to give it a second try and they are all happy and dandy. I on the other hand chose not to give it a second chance after being “burn” emotionally by him. And here I am alone. I have to admit it sometimes crosses my mind thoughts about “what ifs” even to this day!!
And the reason is because I recently found out he is giving all the things I always wanted from a relationship to this new woman. I gotta say it crushes me to think about it and yes its tough to get over things like this.
All I know is that I don’t want a relationship where I feel so insecure, fearful, annoyed, by his actions and his words. I guess what I have to take from this is that he *did not* offer ME the kind of relationship he has given her. And thats it. Thats all I have to take with me and be strong enough, smart enough in the next relationship.
But I have to admit is very tough to be single, to choose not to give a second chance when all your friends are celebrating their “getting back together” not to mention your EX celebrating all the things I wanted with a new woman!
I actually did this – and it worked out well for me. After dating for a year, I broke it off when the guy wanted a month apart “to figure things out” and when he came back was vague and refused to make any plans to spend time together. He wanted to be friends – and I was willing to give it a try. Then, it was months before I heard from him that his dad was sick. (Why call me? Why then? When I asked him – he said “I thought you’d want to know.” REALLY?) I told him to leave me alone, and he did.
After a year of therapy (he was the inspiration, not the cause) I felt better. I had decided to leave town, and emailed to say goodbye. He wanted to get together, but changed plans a few times and when he cancelled the second time, I was done. He had an excuse, a story, and was all about how hard he was trying “to make it work.” I just didn’t care. I didn’t respond. Never heard from him again.
Knowing I could spot his crappy behavior and avoid the trap of feeling sorry for him and making excuses has made all the difference in how I approach dating. I will always wish he was different – that he was a functional adult and could be a part of my past, but I know I’m in a better place. It makes me feel icky that he might have gotten an ego stroke from all this, but I know who I am and I know where my boundaries are. And, I was a very different person when I did my suck it and see – I wasn’t tied to the outcome – I truly made decisions based on what I thought would be best for me.
Thanks Nat for being a source of santiy checking and to help me keep my eyes open when I’m out there meeting new people.
omg — incredibly timely as I pondered all afternoon whether to respond to an email from my ex. now will suck it and see to end things (esp obsessing) one way or the other.
I think lots of people wonder ‘what if?’ and fall out of NC. I’ve done it myself and it’s interesting to note that each time I’ve started up again with NC again, I’ve felt less pain.
Sometimes you do need a second kicking to get rid of any illusions or fantasy.
Same here. Well put Eve.
Hi there,
I agree, NC sometimes is a work in progress. The best thing I think is to just be patient with ourselves, build ourselves up and tackle each day as it comes.
Cheers,
P.S. I miss talking to everyone on the forum! 🙂
TJ
me too TJ!!!! How can I contact you?
Hi Dawn,
NML said that she would give my e-mail to you.
-TJ
I am day 12 NC right now, and you know, I was starting to think exactly this! What if I sucked it to see? (let me just clarify by that I mean send a mail!!!) It is particularly galling to be honest that HE hasn`t contacted ME either!!! I mean, how dare he???!
This article has basically “given” me free permission to go right on ahead and try – one free pass if you like. And you know the funny thing – now I think about it, I`m not sure I actually want to!
FINALLY – I think I am seeing progress!
OK scratch everything I just said – just broke NC and emailed him! Damn damn damn! But you know, not a train smash – I need to know what`s going on for closure – he hasn`t emailed me either so am I sitting here wondering what`s going on when he is ready to move on and just neglected to tell me? I guess I`ll get my answer soon enough…although I suspect I already know what it is….
“I forgot myself briefly and then I remember looking at him and seeing him being exactly as he always was, and catching a glimpse of myself and realising that I was somebody entirely different to who he thought I was and that I actually didn’t want ‘this’ or him.”
That was me in a nut shell and after I broke up with him after a HUGE blow up on New Year’s day, and got back with him a few weeks later after he called and gave me another sob story. I did indeed “suck it and see.” He did change, he did make great efforts BUT I had already read Mr. Unavailable during that time apart and when we got back together I basically became equally emotionally detached and did not allow myself to be drawn into his behavior. And when he did do another disappearing act and I didn’t get emotional about it, that is when I knew, I had the strength to walk away…yet I wouldn’t until I got a phone call from a woman telling me to stop calling him. I lol! When you don’t hear the whispers, God will slap the sh*t out of you. When I confronted him on it, in typical Mr. Unvailable form, he acted as if he had no idea who it was AND tried to turn it all around on me.
I broke it off back in May. It was hard the first few weeks thereafter, emotionally. Some days I was okay, and other days I would breakdown. I couldn’t figure out for the life of me why I was still hung up on this dude. Three weeks ago he contacted me and I answered. I knew I could answer because I was already over him and there was NOTHING he could tell me that would convince me to get back with him. I knew I would hear some sob story, I knew he would say “let’s meet up and talk.” I already had the expectation of the outcome because I knew he hadn’t changed.
He asked, “Is this thing over.” lmao! I told him he played too many games and hung up. That was that. The funny thing is, I did “suck it and see” many times with my ex-husband of 10 years, where I left and went back many, many times only to realize after about the 5th time he hadn’t changed. Little did I know, that’s what I was doing.
I’m onward and upward now and in a much better place. Do I still think about him? Yes. But I quickly change that thought by thinking about how much of a loser he is and the feeling of missing him dissapates.
It’s funny, after I left him on New Year’s day, I was profoundly relieved!!! No tears, no emotion and I found that quite odd that I wouldn’t feel anything. That should’ve told me I was over him, but I had to do “suck it and see” to test myself. I’m glad I passed that test!
You could have been describing me and my situation. It is good to know that I’m not the only one who sometimes falls off the NC wagon. Finding that telling myself that I don’t want to be with someone who doesn’t really want me kind of helps?? I must work harder and stop hoping for a relationship miracle. Thank you for opening my eyes again!
I like this “Suck it and See” too.
I consider myself a work in progress. The best part of the whole journey has been the realization that I’m attracted to emotionally unavailable men and the reasons why (I’m looking for validation).
So it’s nice to know that’s ok to fall off “NC” once in awhile- as long as you are aware of why you do it and can deal with the consequences afterward. I believe part of getting over someone is a process, especially when you are changing a set pattern of beliefs and behaviors. It doesn’t happen overnight. There’s bound to be missteps and mistakes along the way.
Hello,
I have been coming back to this website for the last year despite my good and bad choices on the relationship roller coaster. I have been in NC for the last two months and I have to say that it is very difficult! (after breaking NC a few times) Long story short, my ex broke up twice (out of the blue) thinking that I was the problem. He would say he needed to “date other women” “move to a new city” “find himself” and ultimately these things never satisfied him. The cycle would then continue with him coming back into my life slowly…..first a text, then an email etc. (he was never gone more than 4 mos. and never really was with other women) Although he moves, takes new jobs, goes new places he always seems to find his way back to me. I think I have been his security blanket for a long time. The latest story I heard about him was that he dated a mutual friend for less than a month, talked about me constantly and then stood her up in a restaurant (typical behavior!)
All of his hot and cold emotionally unavailable signs are like glaring red flags. I truly feel that he will never get better until he deals with his emotional problems(which he acknowledges he has). He loves with his mind and not with his heart.
My current biggest struggle is how to start new with someone who is Emotionally Available….I don’t even know what that is like. Plus, I am terrified to open my heart up again. It’s been a very painful process and I am realizing that NC is the only way to go.
Thanks for your very profound wisdom.
Natalie you’re a mind reader. I’ve been struggling with this constant thinking of him, everything nice he said and did, along with the negative and thinking so many of things you mention. I’ve been in NC for 7 months now, yet still think about him daily. I don’t know if I’d open the door again (although I’ve thought about it A LOT!), but good to know where my head is NOW! Completely different from a year ago. I wish I had time to read everyone’s post! You all have great posts! Thanks always Natalie for your web site! I read, read, read, but nothing that hits the nail on the head like you do!!! By the way; have you ever read “Waking The Tiger – Healing Trauma” by Peter A. Levine? After reading this book I believe many of these EUM suffer from unresolved trauma! The pattern fits their behavior!
Virginia, you are like me right now. I walked out, because of inconsistent behavior (but thank goodness no cheating….) and being completely ignored, but I still miss the guy.
welcome to the club I feel the same. Thinking too much specially when I have not much going on lol
I fell off the band wagon a few times with No Contact. The last time, I got so burned that I don’t even want to break No Contact now lol. He even called me today and I simply have no interest. Instead, I just keep reading and reading articles to help keep me focused and happier (like this site!) 🙂 I gave myself a mental “rule” that he would have to fulfill in order for me to have anything to do with him. Basically the bar is so high that Jesus would have to come down and baptism him or something lol. But setting that “rule” helped me stay focused on why I had to do No Contact in the first place and helps me push aside any old illusionary feelings that might arise.
yup, this is how it is for me, I know that bar exactly.The bar restored everything I had lost from my time with him.
NML:
Thank you for this timely post! I am going through this now.. I’ve been NC with my ex for four months (coz he stopped calling me two months ago). I posted on this site about how confused and lost I was. Anyway, he emailed me and called me about a month ago and I ended up going to dinner with him. Told me he missed me and was so sorry etc, etc. We had a great dinner (no sex thank God!) and being a stupid optimist I beleived him when he said he woudl call in the next few days. Of course he didn’t. I was sooo angry and disappointed at myself for “falling off the wagon” and I called him, left a message cursing him out and telling him to never contact me again. Immature I know, but with some people taking the high road doesn’t always work. Of course he called immediatetely and left a message. I now realize that I had to “suck it and see” that our “relationship” was totally beyond repair and the drama of the past couple of weeks was actually worse than not having him in my life.
I just wanted to say thank you very much for your posts…I just got over someone who has been in and out of my life for three years, giving me mixed signals, and yaadi yaadi yaah….but your blog really put things into perspective for me… I have tried various forms of no contact with him in the past but have usually given in or gone back…but this time its for real and I am ready…thanks to you!:)
Oh I understand very well, sometimes this going back is very helpful, just to see that after you made some progress how different your emotional response to their behaviour is now.
It helps to realize how far you have come, it helps to realize you don’t need them any more in your life, it is a going back to reject them this time, and not being rejected….for me it was like that…
Where are all my girls, TJ, Dawn, healthyheart, Movedup, Ivy, Eve, Bebe…I miss you, how can I contact you?
Definitely I agree, eventhough I still feel hurt sometimes, at least I got my little revenge of rejecting him the second time when he wanted to get back with me.
It was difficult for me to think that I could go back and be nice again to a man who caused me so much pain. I had no guarantee that this man won’t hurt me again so I chose not to give him that chance. He was not remorseful. I had the feeling he needed his physical needs met more than anything and he was doing very little to make things right, like texting and doing very lazy communication. He even seemed entitled to get a second chance.
BS, I instead chose to let myself free and give a good man the opportunity to find me 🙂
I have had no difficulty doing NC and moving on but he is still texting. My problem is I forget so quickly. I can hardly remember why I blew him out, how he annoyed me etc so if I run into him in person, I worry it could be like meeting afresh. I’m hopeless at holding a grudge because I get so involved in whatever is going on right now that I don’t dwell on the past – but where my AC is concerned, that’s not so wise.
i empathize. I am alone and I think what is the big deal, just get in touch again or if I see him, we could hang out (which we never did in the first place).
But then there are so many fish in the sea instead of going back to that old float, so many beautiful men…patience and adventure, set sights ahead.
Lilli I wish I was you!! LOL I tend to hold grudges, think about the past a lot, and stop talking to people when my boundaries are crossed. Its definitely a good thing at times but sometimes it makes me wonder how good is it not to give people a chance to prove themselves.
I am not perfect myself so where does that leave me? I have cut friends and obviously boyfriends when I have got hurt, yet I can’t let go easily when it comes to emotions.
Ok, to continue in this series, Natalie’s next post needs to be called, “The AHA moment” and should be about the point where your heart and your brain are in sync.
My brain keeps trying to read these articles and trying to convince my heart I did the right thing…. but my heart is still hoping. I guess I wish I could find some…. “justification” for my heart to let go.
I purchased Natalie’s NC book and I am really glad i did, I have had rather good will power with regard to not contacting but my mind continues to rattle around too much over this person and having this tool on my desktop is a reminder – Move On. What I love is that its not about “do no contact and get him back”, its about empowerment, health, one mindedness. The duality is what makes us so damn crazy.
When the right guy comes along it goes pretty easy. I think its hard to accept failure, we want to get things right.
Glad you mentioned this because I am on the same page as well.
Where’s the forum????? I miss my girls!!!! What’s happening?
Hi Ramona,
I miss the girls too! I so loved this forum… in my darkest hour these wonderful people were there for me, and I miss trying to help others out too!
NML: I hope you do open the forum back up, it truly was, along with your great articles, a godsend for me. I would like to get some contact info for the wonderful friends I have made on here, so if you are not considering opening the forum for the long term, perhaps you could for the short term so that we could get the contact info?
Thanks for the consideration.
It is too bad that a few rotten apples spoil it for the rest of us. But, I do understand the challenges and respectfully post this.
Cheers,
TJ
Hi TJ. I can’t post your comment with your email address but will pass it to Dawn.
Thanks!
TJ
I don’t understand! What happened? TJ please tell me….
Hi Ramona,
I honestly am not quite sure. Only that there were alot of issues with people complaining and everything, and it became a problem for NML. That is what I understand of it.
Maybe there will be some other way for us to communicate. Keep coming back and checking, I know I am going to.
Cheers,
TJ
Thanks for this. I just did it and after a weekend of tears, I have finally decided to “stop the insanity” of an endless ground hog day. There is an old expression: what do you expect from a pig, but a grunt. And that’s what I got yet once again. It’s tough to let go, be even tougher to hang on.
I have just found this website and it is wonderful and a life saver! I knew I needed to go NC and I was 5 1/2 weeks into it when I got the IM “how are you? what is happening?” although the rest of the conversation was (typically) all about him and what he was doing lol. I (foolishly) ended it with a “it felt great to hear from you; I miss you”. Nothing like throwing the door wide open! Hours later I saw him out at a concert with another woman. He was always too “busy” and too “burned” by a former girlfriend to date me. I texted him a little note to acknowledge that I had seen him (I was sure he must have seen me also because after a point his back was to me the rest of the time). I wanted to make light of it and act friendly and “hey it’s no big deal”. He IM’d me the next morning to clarify my text; he had not seen me. After a 15 minute pause, he admitted the women was his date (he was with a group of people) then “gotta go, ttyl”. Afterwards I was crazy trying to figure out why he would get in touch with me if he was not wanting to come back. Finally, a lovely girlfriend said “it will drive you nuts if you don’t know. Maybe if he is dating again he would want to date you again if you were interested. Ask him”. So I texted him “do you want to go out with me?” And his response was “You r nice and i enjoy ur company but i dont think we work well together”. Later that night I found Natalie’s videos about “why does he contact me…” and the “no contact” rule. I have listened to them a bunch of times and everytime I hear her, I just feel free. FINALLY…it was like trying to recover from malaria that keeps flaring up. I am looking forward to his next IM when I will hit the “block sender from contact” tab instead. Then I think I will treat myself to something special 🙂 Thankfully, I have been dating other men so I cannot spend too much time thinking about the “what if” crap. But I will keep reading and listening here for as long as it takes for me to know I will never “miss him” again. Natalie, thank you so much for sharing your insights! And thanks to my angels who put me in the right place right away to see who he really is without spending too much time “hoping” 🙂
I’m really missing the close friends I made here too and feel sad that the forum is gone. I don’t know who was responsible for the ill-intentioned posts, but I will say that venting there during my break-up last year really saved me from even more heartbreak… and made a world of difference in my healing. Such love! Such caring! From perfect strangers, no less… Having a place where we could engage in raw, honest and earnest discussions about our own self-sabotaging patterns meant so much to me. I am a better person because of it.
I miss my buddies there too, and all the women I always looked forward to hearing from. A short list: Jen, Movedup, singloudly, healthyheart, healing oak, life’s a beach, eve, dawn, bebe, kristen — I know I’m forgetting some folks. I miss you and am wishing you all well!
Natalie, would you mind passing my email address along to Jen and Movedup (formerly movedon)? Thanks so much for all you’ve done with this site and for hosting the forum in the first place. Maybe it will come back in another incarnation…. 🙂
Cheers,
Ivy
This is so hard not being able to talk to my dear friends who have helped me and I have learned so much from. This is a sisterhood like no other. I am at a loss without my sisters. Natalie could you please forward my email address onto anyone who asks for it if you are able. Thank you Natalie for creating this website-bless you and all that you have done and continue to do.
Hi Dawn,
Nat said she would pass my e-mail on to you. Send me a line when you get a chance.
((Hugs))
TJ
yes Ivy, dawn, Movedup and all the others, I miss you so much….I need someone to talk to! Are you on facebook baggage reclaim? Can we meet there?
I have tried to and I’ve had a bounce back on the mail provided. Dawn please use the contact page to provide contact details.
I really hope these forums open back up. I broke No Contact today but ended it with a slammed door in his face and jumped right back on the bandwagon. However, I reaaaally need support from other people right now. Right now, I feel lost and alone. It would make such a difference if the community was open. My membership was pending when it closed. 🙁
Cindy,
I’m sorry you’re struggling. It took me about 4-5 times of breaking NC and then I finally couldn’t stand it anymore – the whole roller-coaster of it. What really helped me was to get pissed. I thought of all the crappy things he’d said and done, the lies, the manipulation and I was furious with him.
I also realized… I was furious with myself as well! I’m the one who kept putting myself back into harm’s way. It really wasn’t fair to blame it all on him. Once I faced that squarely, it stopped the obsessiveness of it all, at least somewhat.
The rest of it just took time.
I do believe there’s a biological/chemical component to these attachments as well, though I can’t explain that all very accurately. We know it’s unhealthy to long for someone who mistreated us, and yet we also yearn for their validation, loathesome though some of them may be!
Just be tender with yourself and take good care of yourself right now, just like you have the flu. Stay strong and stay away from him! And forgive yourself for breaking NC. It’s not going to help you to beat yourself up too…. 🙂
Cheers,
Ivy
Ivy,
You sound like you were in a similar situation as me. Did your ex have emotional issues? My ex never goes longer than 4 mos. without that dreaded “pop in” contact. The patterns are the same, yet how can we not see that sometimes?
Ive been in NC for two mos. now since the last let down. I know its the best for me, but at the same time, its hard to get him off my mind. Do you still feel that way? Thanks!
Thank you, Ivy. I was fine until he contacted me playing the victim role. I did read Natalie’s opinions on not to worry about being mean. It finally got to me and I replied to him via email which only ended in a back and forth. I had to settle it with myself somehow that he has a right to his opinion of me, no matter how false and that I need to do this for myself, not him. Anything else is only to ease his mind and to put things on his terms so he can be comfortable while I fight to get over him. He is fully aware that I am hurting and trying to move on. So I finally got back on the bandwagon by totally ignoring his last set of emails and allowing him to have his opinion of me. I can’t lie, I feel really bad right now. But he honestly never cared how he made me feel for so long while he was doing me wrong.
BTW, I am talking about an EUM here….I am trying to break free from one of those after multiple attempts and over a year of wasting my time. It’s the hardest type of person I have ever, ever tried to break free from. This person will not commit but gets soooo jealous when I try to move on and tries all he can to keep things in a comfortable spot on his terms.
I wasted over a year with this man who just wouldn’t commit but took WHATEVER HE wanted from me, crossed the friendship barriers time and time again and practically cut my head off every time I questioned it or wanted more than the crumbs he gave.
Over the past year, he weaseled his way into my life more and more, had jealousy fits, wanted me to be there for him unconditionally and I could go on and on here yet conveniently broke out the stamp of “I told you we were just friends” disclaimer when my concerns were raised.
I willingly stayed over an entire year through verbal abuse, emotional absence, barely there moral support and the expectancy of “jumping” when I was asked to for him, all in the false hope that we would end up together when I finally discovered his only long term plans for me was to use me as he saw fit until he no longer needed me, only to discard me in the trash. ENOUGH! I have never let a friend in my life treat me in such ways.
And I can’t believe after all he has done to me that *I* feel bad for *him* right now….but I am trying to ignore that feeling and move forward to a better future. It feels so fake saying that now but I need it to happen for me. I couldn’t even remember who I was before him. It hit me today that I was far more balanced but that tipped to revolve completely around him. I refuse to be a victim and I know that at some point I allowed this to happen just like I am going to fix this myself as well. I can’t wait until the day to feel like my old self again.
Hi CIndy,
I think we must know the same guy. I always had “friend” used against me too. I’ve never heard that word used as a weapon before, but when they say it, it basically is. I’m still just furious/hurt that I allowed myself to be used. NC is the best way to go, I just wish the anger would go away for me. But, I think its definitely your right to get really mad right now. I’ve never had such a crappy “friend”, and you shoudn’t put up with it!
Hi TJ,
People complaining? I can’t believe it. Where Is movedup ans all the others. I need this forum. I am freaking out. NML is there anything we can do? Block or recreate for members only and disallow any negative people? Was it ning that cancelled the forum? Maybe use godaddy.com??? I’m so sad!!!
I did all the no contact fell off the wagon remembered the pain then when he had no one left he tried again and I am ashamed of how easy it was for me to return to the scene that really hurt me and go back to the situation which I had worked hard to stay away from and now here I am in the same old cycle of push pull..
What I see is what you saw NML that is someone who really doesn’t like themseles enough to try again and that is painful. I can’t imagine I would ever be his exception. So I have to find a way to like me enough to say enough is enough and shut the door properly I think that was my problem when I implemented no contact I didn’t lslam and lock the door..
Ladies I am hurting so…. I am so ashamed, 13 yrs of devoting myself to a man that has little or no regard for me at all. I have been used by the best. I just keep going over it in my head and trying to make sense of it all. I am 55 yrs old, I should know better! Please help, I am in desperate need, and don’t know how I will ever come out of it, or if I even will. Natalie, another cry for help!
When you ask a man…he tells you…(but not what you want to hear)…why do we not listen, why do we not take heed, why do we go on and on knowing that it is not good for us and then jump yet again when he calls? Why, why, why????
Hopeful,
I am 50 and realized that growth and personal growth has its own barometer. It is difficult but you learn surrender and patience. I discovered after many years and lost lovers and friends that I was co-dependant and over reactive, I lost good friends from being too attached. I am grateful to finally learn this.
Please don’t beat yourself up. Is it possible to see yourself happy and content, together without a man right now? It is not because of your age I say this but for inner peace and inner adventure. Can you find any joy in the situation?
There is more to see in the picture. No matter how many years, how much he meant to you – you are living your life and the most important person here. You have a journey ahead that you are responsible for. People are important in our lives but our life and all that means to you – body, mind and spirit is it.
Things like St. Johns Wort, etc help with depression and are essential when you feel very low. Seek professional help if you feel very bad. Please mourn for a period of time, take a nice vacation, do something lovely for yourself and work to Let Go. Spiritually there is a saying, Let go, Let God. May or may not resonate with you but do not go back.
Take care and the very best.
Judy,
Thank you for your wise words and thoughts. Today was very hard, at work trying not to cry, people seeing there is something wrong. There are moments it’s unbearable, I bounce around from anger to guilt to remorse to regret, more pain, both at him and myself. I just read furhter the site is closing. It figures everytime I find some sort of group, self-help forum it closes or changes.
hey ladies,
if any of you drop by my blog, drop me a message with your email and we can keep in touch? Unless someone can suggest another forum to hang out at until we ‘maybe’ get a new one here?
very good Idea!
Hi ladies!
I didnt realize baggage reclaim ning was close permanently?!I dont understand what happened?
I need to keep my sanity in check and I miss all my ladies there!I Is there any way NML can reopen ning for members only?
Would it be wrong for me to name a new ning network “Baggage reclaim members” on behalf of all the members here? I kind of did, it was a two step thing very easy. But I wont add anyone or do anything yet I would like to hear from NML first. Otherwise it will be nice to have ning back. 🙁
Big hugs xoxo.
Hi Bebe. You should have received a mail regarding the forum if you are a member – let me know if you need it to be forwarded. If you are setting up a forum, please don’t use the Baggage Reclaim name in it, as that’s my site name but people will assume that it’s endorsed by/provided by me. Thanks
To all those commenting re the forum:
As I stated in the email, I will advise people of what services will be provided and will do so via the member mail so can I ask you all to use the email address provided in the member mail or the contact page rather than commenting on this post which actually has nothing to do with the forum. Thanks
Hi Nataly!
I did not receive the email. Can you forward it to me? I just sent you a message through here with my email but not sure if you receive it.
And I haven’t created the network and certainly wont be using the name baggage reclaim. 🙂
Thanks!
Hmm yeah I think it all comes down to your emotional level for the AC. I contacted mine for sex, I’ll admit and the only way I was able to is because I realize he will never be the good guy he pretended to be in the beginning; he is the kind of guy who is fun for a night for a fling but nothing more, he cannot give more of himself and doesnt choose to. You know what Im fine with that as Im looking for other guys: In the meantime Im having a good time with him when I feel like it and dont stress about when we call eachther for it! Sounds crazy I guess but to be honest this guy wasnt that much of an AC hes just not looking to committ.
Ok you are so right! I foolishy broke NC to try to get some sex out of this guy, thinking perhaps he was really just a normal guy. Well, I ran in to him at the bar we met at yesterday. I hadnt been in like two months, and I felt so much better about how I felt that I told myself Im not going to ignore my old haunts just because of him. He showed up was with a female ‘friend’ but still caressed my arm while walking by, greeted me kindly, and even gave me not only a long goodbye kiss on the cheek and a wave goodbye on his way out (enough to fool a friend of mine who I introduced him to) only to tell me today that after seeing me yesterday we dont have enough in common and have nothing to say to eachother! Wow! Let me say that I hadnt seen him in almost two months and have been working on myself was feeling confident and good, as NML says, since I loved myself, we couldnt exist! He wanted me to run after him to beg him to stay or I dont know what! I gave him too much credit thinking he was not a complete assclown but he is. I feel honestly better knowing that its truly over now and in the end am glad I fell back in to the trap only to see with open eyes the bs the games the lies the rationalization. I love myself now and my life is too short to deal with sad sick little boys.
I appreciate your sharing this as it helps others. We all think about it to cut the lonliness.
Something nice will happen to you very soon. Take care and all the best.
Judy,
thanks so much! And also ladies please look at the first message I left so that you can see that I was capable of reading this post and yet still truly under his spell and in the drug addict phase of needing to validate my decision to remain in contact! Ladies, I thought I had moved on but I had myself secretly thinking he might come back.
Its been a painful experience all in all but I know it is a learning one, so all things happen for a reason. I met this guy for a reason, to wake me up! Although, he does need an acting award or accolade though!
A
Ok! I have been blowing up this blog spot. So AC and I had previously planned to meet, as I mentioned we ran in to eachother with what I think is his current gf. Then he sent the message saying we had nothing to say to eachother. I responded calmly Thanks for letting me know, thinking in fact that’s fine cut my losses, not expecting to hear from him again, when today I get this message “I’ve been thinking and can’t find the point of meeting on Wednesday. Time is needed to enjoy again our time together. Don’t you think?” I mean hello! I had obviously figured we weren’t going to see eachother again! Can’t believe he even bothered to message again. Also as if I am a member of his fan club and will hold out hope for the future. He is leaving the country for good in 12 days and I am only sure that there will be at least another crazy amibiguous message between now and then. Truly an AC! Thankfully I believe in NC for sure now.
Don`t know if anyone else is having the same experiences as me, but when I came to this site, and bought the e-books about 2 months ago – I remember feeling many things as I read them, eg:
“I don`t think I can do no-contact”
“It all seems very harsh”
“Maybe I should give him the benefit of the doubt”
etc etc etc
The funny thing is, over the last 2 months everything I read has been proved correct time and time again. I almost feel that armed with these books and this website I can predict what he is going to do – he is running true to form as a perfect EUM! I almost feel sorry for him that I am so forewarned and forearmed!
I just wanted to add a comment to breaking NC because of my recent experience. LAst week I broke NC. NML was right – DON`T contact even in an emergency – well, I was racing to ER with a choking baby (egg allergy, first time, please be aware mums of babies!) and he works at the hospital (he`s a doctor). So I texted him to ask if by any chance he was on duty (I was kind of hoping to pull the “friendship” card and get my baby boy seen more quickly if I`m honest, but it was also a definite break in NC!) Here was my epiphany moment – not only did he not respond straight away (which is fair enough because sometimes he is in surgery or with a patient) but he didn`t actually respond for 5 DAYS – not even to check if we were OK.
Finally I got a phone call two days ago. But I am SO incensed that it took him 5 DAYS to come back to me I didn`t answer it, didn`t call back, just listened to the message “Hi, it`s me. I`ll call you back later” (of course, he didn`t) and deleted it. Didn`t even ask if everything was OK in the message! Again proving the concept that everything really is all about them.
A few thigns have come out of this experience that I want to share with people that might help:
1) It is absolutely true for most people (there are exceptions of course) breaking NC only confirms what deep down you already know – the AC needs it and you are doing the right thing.
2) I was almost fantasizing about him chasing me and me being the one to ignore the texts and calls. But you know, it really DOESN`T give you the satisfaction you imagine it will. I don`t feel any sense of triumph or control just because I ignored his call. It just leads to even MORE wondering what he is thinking – and who needs that?
3) When you have your epiphany moment, it`s like a light switches on and suddenly everything changes. Mine was pretty big but it doesn`t have to be.
I have a looong way to go with this guy. He got under my skin in ways no-one else has ever been able to because of the circumstances under which we met. But thanks to the books, this site and all you guys and your experiences and stories I am getting stronger all the time. NML wrote something about attracting things into your life – I SWEAR that this site and all this information was sent to me right at the time that I needed it. Whether I attracted it in, or it is just coincidence I don`t know, but it is also helpful and comforting to feel that there is a plan to all this, that these guys are sent to teach us things, and to fight against it and try and force things into a direction they are not meant to go in is to fight against forces of nature over which we have no control – we really should just let it be and go with the flow because when something no longer feels right, it is almost certainly because it no longer IS right for us.
Just the post I needed to read today. After 2 months of NC, made easier by his being out of town, my AC is returning to work and I will have to start seeing him everyday. I have done great work on me. I have grown and come to see that my interest in him was really just me needing validation. I had held on to the image of him as a great guy for too long, living in a fantasy world and therefore “mourning” what I thought I had lost by not being with him. Now I see him for the AC he really is. I had also wasted a lot of time and energy debating whether to stay friends, what the reunion was going to be like and all that nonsense. I have grown stronger, I now recognize I deserve to be treated with respect and care and he has no history of doing that. I know what good treatment looks like and I will not accept any disrespect. If he returns with a polite, professional, respectful attitude, I will treat him the same. If he comes back looking to hit the reset button, playing more assclown games or trying to get back into my head and life, he will be shown the door. Not as an idle threat or as a ploy to get him to shape up – but because he doesn’t deserve my time or attention. Thank you, Natalie, for helping me see this. I have wasted too much time and energy on this clown, when I should have been focusing and working on me.
Ladies – After months of agony with my assclown (who I work with), and then months of NC, I finally had my much anticipated, long awaited encounter with the returning assclown. Guess what happened? He said hi and tried to act as though nothing happened. I blanked him completely and felt nothing. Glory be praised!!! All the work, all the endless reading of this site paid off big time. I felt nothing! He was an assclown and will remain an assclown and I couldn’t be happier to be rid of him. I no longer see whatever it was that I thought I couldn’t live without. He is a selfish jerk. Despite all his talk about needing to keep me in his life as a valued friend and how he would never let anything split us up, he didn’t put one ounce of effort into maintaining this supposedly invaluable friendship. The second I stopped stroking his ego, he couldn’t have been less interested in me if I were on fire. I couldn’t help but notice that, once I stopped reading meaning and significance into every little thing he said or did, there was no evidence of him caring for me at all. It had all been in my head. When the rose tinted glasses finally came off and I saw him for what he really was, there was no more fear, no more need. I had my power back and there was nothing he could have said or done to make me interested in him again.
God bless you Natalie – I have my life and sanity back!!!
After 28 days I broke contact
Why because I forgot to concentrate on me and what is best for me it was his birthday a significant age one I kept busy for most of the day then in the evening in a moment of weakness I sent a text saying happy birthday because my thinking got side tracked and I was thinking things weren’t that bad between us he remembered my b’day etc and on and on these delusional thoughts went he did reply almost like he knew I would text him.. so now Im back on the wagon always re reading my why I am in no contact list and it is extensive..
Today is the day of his b’day party that I was initially invited to but I could lay a million dollar bet that I was never on the invite list.. and when I woke up I thought I bet he expects me to text him that his party will go well and he enjoys it.. (which I wont I plan on keeping busy and doing a be kind to me night)
Unfortunately I know down the tack this guy will be back in contact and I was hoping NML you could do a post on what to do when he contacts you..
Thank you
You ignore. You don’t respond. It’s really that simple (and that difficult).
If you fall off the wagon, just get back on again. Just cos you sent one lousy text you’re not obligated to him in any way.
And even if you’re a miserable failure at NC (which many of us are/have been), you are still reducing the time you are interacting with him. And that’s always a good thing.
Fascinating stuff. I am glad I read this today. I have just read something in one of Melodie Beattie’s book on codependency in which she says to stop fighting the pull to return to relationships, even when we know they are bad for us. She argues that if we keep getting pulled back into something like a relationship, its because we haven’t learned everything we were meant to from it yet, that “class isn’t over until its finished!”. I am on the fence about this today and I am not certain whether I am looking for justification to modify my NCR with my AC (after 10 weeks) or whether I really need to briefly re-engage to finish the lesson. I am honestly over him – he is the very textbook definition of an assclown (the one they made the mould of, I suspect!). I have to work very closely with him and the NCR has been difficult. Serious problems have developed at work because of our inability to talk to each other and others have complained they feel trapped in the middle (one equated it to feeling like a child of divorce, trying to please both sides). I feel immature and unprofessional continuing this way. I have no hope and no interest in anything personal with this man, he cannot and will not ever give me what I want and I now see his ridiculous ways for exactly what they are. But I do need to learn some way of being professional and civil. Some part of me is scared, though. I think my boundaries are in place. I think I am strong enough. I think he has no interest in restarting the relationship in any way, so what am I scared of? I realize now I had alot of unspoken expectations of this man, which he had no intention of ever meeting, and that was what was causing my pain at the end of the relationship. I have learned so much over the past months about myself and my bad relationship patterns. Maybe what I am really afraid of is that all this work has not yet taken hold and that I will slip. I just don’t know. I will hold off contact with him until I am clear but would love to hear others experiences and thoughts. I am being sincere when I say I am not clear what I am afraid of.
Who cares what your colleagues think? I’m sure workplaces are riddled with people who can barely stand each other for one reason or another. Head down and do your job. You only have to keep your boss happy, not a myriad of office gossipers. Why do they have so much time on their hands that they’re concerning themselves with your relationships? Are you talking to them about it? Well don’t.
Keep your contact with him minimal, professional and businesslike. Channel your inner Greta Garbo.
I have been reading this site for over a year. I dated a full fledged assclown for months and then left the situation after I came across this site and started reading here. I went NC for nearly 9 months with him. I came to Baggage Reclaim and just read and read which kept me focused on learning how to basically “walk again” in the world of relationships and begin to formulate new beliefs about myself and love and relationships (because I can say I really had little to none). In March of this past year, feeling much stronger based on what I had read here and the self work I had embarked on, I broke NC with the former assclown and reconnected for another month and a half in March of this year, during that time, I really just woke up and saw with my own two eyes, that he was still the same old AC that he always was – But what was different this time around was that I knew I had changed. I had a huge wake up call when it occured to me that during those 9 months when we were apart, I was working on me and my belief system and my values system and I finally had my own inner compass up and running now, which although it was “weak”, it was still at least “operable” now….I was able to start to really discern when I did not like the things he was doing because I had some boundaries so I knew where the lines were now and my voice of opposition both inside and out got stronger. I left again for another month. Of course I feel off NC again for three more months before I finally had that moment where I knew in my heart I had changed and had experienced the last of my denial days…..I saw things clearly.
But throughout this process, I did keep the focus on me as much as possible…when I would think about him, I had to bring the focus straight back to me without delay, at the same time I experienced the Suck it and See, and something was/had changed inside me….my beliefs about myself and what I deserved were finally catching up to creating more appropriate, self loving emotional responses to what the AC was doing in the relationship but more importantly what I was also doing in the relationship. I became more authentic with my feelings and I began to put my foot down, I became more assertive and truly spoke my mind about what I wanted and needed and I got stronger. True to form, when he could not provide those things, and he could not live up to my values and my expectations for what I truly wanted in this relationship, I left him behind…..
These painful interludes were important to me, not as personal failures, but rather they served to reinforce the reality of him, the changes I was truly making in me, and the impact on me emotionally that my choices were having on me…..All of this moved me towards addressing the real issue here which was “why on earth do i keep going back?” The NC process helped me to learn how to hold onto my power now based on MY beliefs, trust myself now, know my values and needs and that my power is in honoring them myself by not accepting less than what I need..taking the time to know what I needed during NC was a critical step..how else was I going to know when I wasn’t getting them met if I wasn’t authentically aware of them?…so when the AC came with his hands out with the crumbs, asking me to accept less, this time I was able to really listen to him spew his normal sales pitch but I no longer foolishly bought into the illusions…Instead, I remembered my needs and the pain of the relationship because I hadn’t stuffed either away in a drawer anymore, I remembered the lies because they caused me pain and I acknowledged it and honored my feelings, and felt it and it registered as offensive rather than glossing them over because I wanted to believe he was different. No, this time, I realistically assessed my experiences with him, let how I felt about them sink in, and understood how inappropriate and outrageous he acted, and having thrown out my rose colored glasses along with the illusions, the AC was not attractive anymore and his Modus Operendi sales pitch was nothing short of insultingly pathetic…I was “riding with me” for once as NML said…..but it is a process of growth and I learned that NC really is for me…..and NC is not a test of my willpower, or a comptition between you and the AC to see who can pretend it doesn’t matter the longest (that is Drama in disquise)…the objective is not to pretend anymore and get in touch with your own feelings and process them and put the focus on you and work on you!!….NC is the gift I give myself to have the absolute necessary time and space I needed to protect myself from further pain and empower me to think logically about the situation and not react or deny what happened or how I felt as a result. NC is not a win or lose proposition…..it is a process that will help you get major clarity if you stick to it because you are no longer going to settle for crumbs…..when i finally did say goodbye to him, like NML said, I really saw him for who he was…..and it made leaving him as clear as a blue sky……hang in there….keep the focus on YOU and focus on what you authentically feel…..I am moving forward too…Thank you to all the women who shared here…..Happy Birthday Baggage Reclaim! and Thank you NML…
Ithaca – Wow, girl. Congratulations. You are a walking advertisement for the positive power of NC, working on yourself and getting the clarity and self-respect necessary to start having a healthy relatonship with you, which means the death of any relationships with assclowns. I love what you said here and it has helped me stay strong. For some reason today the AC has been on my mind alot and I have been playing with the idea of breaking contact. I finally sat down and asked myself why? Why did I need to talk to him? What good did I think would come out of it? Did I honestly think I would end the contact feeling better about me? Was I just interested in making sure I no longer wanted him, in which case why did I need to talk to him? I guess we will never truly know why these guys have such a long lasting effect on us and our psyches but Ithaca, your story is a great example of what NML has said all along – as long as you stay focused on you and work on yourself, you will start to see these guys as the bottom feeders they are and you will no longer have to fight to keep NC. It will be the only thing you want to do.
Well done, girl!