I remember this feeling well when I’d moved away from home (Dublin, Ireland) and my ex would send me messages about how well he was doing (O-K…..) and the “young fillies” {side-eye} that apparently all wanted a piece of him when he was out clubbing (because that’s the type of thing your ex needs to know). I’d read his messages and re-enact the calls to my friend and we’d be falling around laughing. Who says this stuff? Behind my humour though, a part of me smarted from his insensitivity, not because I wanted him back but because I kept trying to make sense out of nonsense, wondering why somebody would behave in this way. Does he have so little regard and respect for me that he actually thinks I want to hear this guff?
I was reminded of these shenanigans when one reader told me how her friend called her up to let her know that the traumatic ex from a couple of years ago who she was finally over and who never put her on Facebook, was all loved up and splashing it all over Facebook. In what section of the unspoken handbook of friendship that most of us have a level of concept of, does it say, When your friend has finally started to move on from their shady ex, make sure that you let them know that they’re doing something with their latest partner that they didn’t do with him/her? The irony is that she would never have known about it because she’d unfriended him.
Another reader has a just-about-are-an-ex – this is when you know that it’s over but you’re still clinging on by a thread in that half-life where you’re hoping that they’ll come to their senses or are waiting for them to go, “Just messing with you! I have spontaneously combusted into the man/woman you wanted? Will you hop on to that there white horse and gallop off into the sunset with me?”
I digress… So this fella is not over his ex and in fact, has spent the entire year-long relationship blaming him only having his toe and maybe even a pube or few in the relationship as well as his flip-flappy, blowing hot and cold, passive aggressive shenanigans, on the fact that he’s not over an ex. She finally steps up and draws her [chalk] line and he says that he needs to sort himself out, she deserves better and yada yada yada. What’s he doing, this man who has not been able to get himself together during the relationship? Calling and sending texts about how he’s getting it together, life is going good etc.,…. yes because that’s what you want to tell the woman you just broke up with two weeks ago who wants to make a life with you.
He’s willing to exchange an ego stroke for keeping hope alive.
I’ve heard stories about people receiving calls/messages about how their ex is in love for the first time, that they’re finally settling down and starting a family (even when they’ve left their ex literally holding a baby), that they’ve bought all manner of expensive stuff (while still owing whoever they’re telling money), how a new partner is better in bed (why a ‘friend’ needs to tell you that about an ex is beyond me) and the list goes on.
Have some of us lost our social compass? Is empathy in short supply? Where is the filter? Where is that delay button also known as ‘conscience’?
People who call or text under the guise of “keeping you in the loop” and “keeping in touch”, who are really testing the waters, or trying to re-insert themselves into your head so that they’re front and centre, or are angling for an ego stroke, trying to keep you on a string, or who are taking a level of comfort from your discomfort, don’t check themselves and ask:
1) Is what I’m saying helpful or harmful?
2) Am I only thinking about me or have I truly considered the other person’s position?
The ex or friend who appears to be going out of their way to disrupt you with their calls or texts has only truly thought about things from their perspective. One might put their need for gratification ahead of your feelings, the other has a “juicy piece of information” burning a hole in their pocket. It’s not uncommon for there to be an element of passive aggression – telling you something with a smile but masking resentment.
As a friend, we can be sensitive enough to know when it’s safe to say something (after all, if we feel it’s that pertinent to share something, we must know something of our friend’s journey) but there’s a way of saying things and it cannot be about gossiping or even on some level trying to put a monkey wrench in the works like, Ha! See! I knew you weren’t over him/her!
You could argue that it’s an “easy mistake” to be insensitive (not when you employ a little something called empathy on a regular basis) but that doesn’t explain why an ex makes these calls or a friend hurries to tell you something that it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to work out that it’s going to be at the least, insensitive and possibly disruptive.
It’s not that you have a blackout on all things ex, after all you cannot control the uncontrollable so there’s going to stuff that you can’t legislate for, but how much do you really need to know about what an ex is doing, especially when you’re not in touch and especially when it’s your friend who’s telling you? Have they forgotten what you went through? Did they see it as just something minor?
It’s one thing when a random or someone who we aren’t close to says something this insensitive but we don’t expect it from people we regard as friends and we often can’t help but hope that even though a relationship didn’t work out, that our ex respects or cares enough to think twice– if they didn’t think twice in the relationship and struggled with empathy, they’ll be just as bad if not worse when they’re out of it.
What you have to be careful of doing is getting drawn into it, either by finding value in being called or texted (and so feeling ‘relevant’ and ‘important’ as if they’re the determiner of your worth) or by taking the bait and giving them the reaction that they want (hopeful hints about the possibility of getting back together which they then take as confirmation that you’re still an option, or letting that ‘friend’ derail you).
Stay grounded.
Don’t forget who you are. Recognise what’s behind their behaviour (it’s not your worth) and don’t chase after and feed critical thoughts that may come up. Definitely don’t invalidate your feelings by pretending that you’re OK with what they’ve done.
And then set a boundary with you so that you’re not open again in the same way to being a receiver of this type of info from that person and if you feel that the situation calls for it, draw your line directly with them too.
Your thoughts?
If you struggle with asserting healthy boundaries or are very hard on you, check out my 30-day projects, Embrace Healthy Boundaries and Tune In To Your Inner Voice (& Calm Down Your Inner Critic).
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Thanks Natalie. I am secretly pleased when things aren’t going great for my most recent ex-EUM. I feel comforted. I used to feel terrible about this – like, “Grow up, lady! Stop wishing ill on this bastard that doesn’t deserve an iota of your attention.”
I realized what it is: it validates my decision to end it. Sometimes, when I’m feeling sad or I miss him or I’m shaky on trusting myself, I start to wonder/hope I’m wrong about him.
I work to build my trust in my own judgment, continue to validate my decision as right for me. I practice telling myself, “You did the right thing for you and you can trust your decision to move on – what he is doing/not doing has nothing to do with you.” I ignore passing mentions about him and I notice our mutual friends mention him less and less around me – not because it upsets me but because I don’t engage at all on the topic. I suppose it’s not the reaction they’re hoping to report back to him (or that he is hoping to hear about in return) – and that suits me just fine!
Sometimes it can be worse to hear that your ex is not getting on as well and is still as screwed up as ever – because it can make you feel like maybe you could be the one to fix him / you were always the one etc. and concoct some ridiculous ideas in your head.
I heard exactly this one time from a mutual friend ….i.e.’he needs someone to help him…..’ so I met up with my ex again (after 10 years!) and got the idea into my head that perhaps I actually was the one who could ‘make him better’. Well, guess what, it turned out to be a disaster and one of the worst decisions I ever made! I won’t be making that mistake again!
He can be as screwed up as he likes – i’m not going to attempt to fix him!
Yep, some folk have had their social compass exposed to a strong magnetic field and it’s gone completely haywire. Had a colleague and neighbor seated two seats away yak on about how beautiful, genetically blessed Latest Conquest was. She had witnessed my pain over AC, over my having to deal with both of them often and publicly, had expressed grave concern about my well being. She also knows I have struggled with issues of attractiveness on my part since. Who would do such a thing? The event where this happened? My birthday and celebration of another year of cancer survival. Gotta love it.
Noquay –
How awful that someone was that rude to discuss that when you were nearby. Turn it over to your higher power. Being that she was deliberately cruel, it will bite her in the butt someday. I’m praying for your success and well being. Don’t let anyone take your power away. Remember all of your achievements, your unique personality, and your own beauty. I’m sending much love your way.
In a way it has; saddled with a chronically depressed, do nothing, whiny husband who controls the purse strings. Her karma is ongoing.
LOL. My ex-EUM used to do this stuff all the time. It used to infuriate me until I realized how pathetic it was. Probably the worst time was when I’d broken up with him for the final time because he wouldn’t commit to anything and he sent me an email saying, ‘Well, this will definitely be the year I’m going to settle down and have a family.’ LOL! Five years later, he has done neither…
it serves you well, diane, for not blocking him in the first place. 🙂
@Mephista, yeah, this was before BR. I had no idea about NC and stuff. We went back and forth via email for like a year before I finally figured out that this was total nonsense and needed to disengage. Baby steps!
Yeah. This is where the “mean girls” live. I’ve been blindsided a time or two with “pretend concern” from people with the need to tell me something that would more than likely make me feel bad or insecure.
Until this post, I did not realize my typical reaction is invalidating myself. Every time it has happened to me in the past, I swallowed the surprise/anger/ and hurt…. just let it “slide”. Then I ruminate on the “whys” – why would he/she say/do that…?…I’d never do that to him/her. And then the shields would go up, and depending on my emotional investment, I’d forever keep the person at arms length OR I would pretend it away…until the next time I was blindsided.
Now I feel that I will call the person out – ask them to explain themselves right then and there, when it happens. Draw that line, like in those old westerns….”Them’s fightin’ words..You best explain yourself.”
I’m no longer reacting to what you said nor do I care why you said it. I’m gonna call you out for being unkind and have YOU do the explaining.
I would like to know Noquay’s neighbor’s reaction to – “You know I dated him. And you also know my trials of getting past him. So what is your reason for extolling the beauty of his new conquest to me?”
Although it sounds like she wasn’t directly speaking to you, Noquay….? So it was a total mean girl move to say it within earshot. My guess is she is envious of all his conquests and probably wants to be one.
Exactly!
Spent most of my life with my head in the sand from this kind of behaviour and paying badly for it. Calling them out is just great – it sure puts alot of silence into a destructive conversation if it was meant in bad faith towards you.
Being brave enough to do it is the hard bit – When I can, I use questions and keep questioning them – any question pertinent that comes into my head – like – why would you tell me that? – why would you need me to know that? – what do you mean by telling me that?
No conclusions or letting them off – just questions only and then a whole lot of silence.
At the end of the day no matter what the questions are that come into your head they will be left having been questioned as to their behaviour towards you – I find when I am silent about possible passive aggressive behaviour – I may ‘survive’ that particular time but it gets worse the next time and seems to keep going on and, as Nat says, the pain from past violations combining with new wounds, makes for a very very bad concoction.
Ironically Elgie, she was a potential victim/conquest until I took her aside and warned her about him. She was an ideal victim; unhappy in her marriage, vulnerable in many ways. Maybe you’re right; she may’ve wanted to be a conquest. Many of the folk at the table were colleagues, none of whom knew of the situation and I wasnt about to feed the rumor mill. She has since moved away, still dealing with bad marriage. She’d always tell me to settle for someone less than. Didn’t seem to work too well for her.
Well that clears things up. She is being a mean girl because in her view you ruined her chance at having her moment in the sun with Campus Casanova. Given her bad marriage, she would’ve loved the thrill of intrigue and romance for a little while, despite a probable bad ending. But, knowing you were watching threw a wrench into things. As intended, right? So she pays you back by gossiping loudly about new conquests.
The only time a woman has “schooled” me about a man, is when she wanted the man for herself. The only time a woman has questioned me about a man was when she was interested in that same man. And the only time a woman encouraged a man to talk about his dating life in my presence is when she knew he was a man I had once dated. Those are three different women and three different men.
If she had her own back, when you “schooled” her she should have said “I appreciate that you are trying to help me, but please let me make my own mistakes. I learn best from my own mistakes.”
Elgie
What I was trying to do was make sure she didn’t join the list of AC victims. I saw it as a warning to someone hurting and vulnerable. Had someone warned me in such a way, I wouldve been very grateful and also saved myself years of anguish. She was not only a colleague but a neighbor and dear friend. This was two years out from my walking away from AC. What I wanted then (and now) was to be able to sell out for enough, get offered a similar job elsewhere or have him leave as he’d been looking for other jobs for a long time. I wanted him gone with a capital G. Still do. It was her concern, wondering why I was so very down at work plus her telling me about her bad marriage and ACs hitting on her that made me disclose. Again,he goes after successful, educated women in troubled marriages/relationships/situations when we are at our most lonely and vulnerable and not thinking clearly. A predator. With me, with a previous female colleague, with the then OW, with Latest Conquest and according to others in the system longer, this has been a pattern for many years. The former colleague and the then OW were far more devastated, one financially destroyed, by the experience. Didnt want that for a friend.Turns out she had heard of his behavior from others in the system and seemed truly grateful for my confirming what she suspected. Why she had to yak away about LC may’ve indeed been jealously, may’ve been because she’d thought I’d settled like she suggested and no longer cared, may’ve been that she didn’t understand how loud she was as red wine was a factor in the situation. She may have wanted a go at him. Will never know, eh? Since then I am always soooo careful about what I say about whom and where I say it, and whose presence I am in.
Yeah, I had an ex who would call me periodically and tell me things were going well and finishing with me was the right decision. I really think he was looking for me to feel good for him. The worst effect on me was it leading me to thinking he was trying to convince himself it was right, and so I’d think “oh he must actually still want me.” Somehow I’d push down the hurt from what he’d said and cling on to hope. Not now, the phone would be hung up very swiftly. Ooh, the memory of this brings up some nice anger to invigorate my morning.
Hi Colly, nice to read you. I was just wondering the other day how you were doing. I am glad you have managed to disentangle yourself from that situation, I remember it as a very difficult one. Best, V.
I’m curious what the thoughts are on grieving a death that happened. My dad passed and it’s hard to stay no contact. My ex did reach out to me when his grandfather died and I heard him out.
Candice
Stay NC. You are vulnerable now.
I agree completely, the grief makes you very vulnerable and they’ll jump on it if you open yourself up to it.
Candace, sorry to hear of your dad’s passing. Alternatively you can reach out here on BR if you are comfortable to, lots of lovely and kindly listening eyes to help give you some needed support. Take care.
Reminded of the time an ex from my early 20s came up to me ten years after we split up at a friend’s christening party. While we were together I got pregnant – I didn’t want an abortion but had one anyway because it was for the best. He just told me he didn’t want to be a dad and left me to make the decision. At this party he came up to me, said ‘I changed my mind about having kids, let me introduce you to my two boys. Have you ever thought about having children?’ Cue ten minutes of polite chit chat about families before I left him to have a good cry in the bathroom.
I didn’t want him back – his wife was very welcome and they seemed happy together anyway. But it made me realise how it might have happened that I’d been the crazy one always losing my temper when we were together. Maybe, just maybe, it was due to that level of dipshit insensitivity and (let’s be generous) unrealising provocation that meant I was indeed crazy while we were together. I had always felt bad about who I was when I was with him, and felt that I was in the wrong all the time. It was a horrible day, but it really healed me of believing it was all my fault. Sometimes it takes time and a bit of perspective to see what someone is really like.
@Kriss. That’s appalling. How one could behave this way is beyond me. So good that you left that person, best wishes, V.
@kriss, just shocking. Awful. He could have just introduced them. H didn’t have to rub it in that way. Tbh I’m not even sure he meant to be cruel necessarily – it is really possible that some people have no empathy and no realisation how things might affect anyone but themselves. I meant that explains also how you got back together — he initiated then backed off and left you alone to dal with things. You didn’t need this reminder about how cold and empty he is, you had those already. Hugs and good vibes to you…
I don’t think he meant to be cruel either – he had no thought about how much it might hurt me. It really was an enlightening moment as I’d spent literally years ashamed of the way I’d behaved towards him when we were going out together. Finally I saw that he had quite a lot to do with it, too! At the time I was the one who ‘overreacted’ and we argued all the time because I was ‘unreasonable’ and ‘oversensitive’. All our friends saw was me behaving like a banshee so I felt disapproved of by our social circle too. It made me realise that, at best, we were a terrible combination but that it definitely wasn’t just me. And it was really valuable to finally realise that and put it behind me.
So if there’s still someone in your life who’s being an arse, and you either can’t get rid of them or haven’t yet, it’s worth looking at what you are learning about them now from the things they are saying to you.
OMG. Kriss, he is a SuperJerk. Twisting the knife. Good riddance to him!
The lesson here is that we would not have 10 minutes of polite chitchat. Instead, rewinding time, I can envision him bringing his boys over to meet me and my saying “Hi, fellows. Nice to meet you! I knew your Daddy when he was just a little shit. Now he’s a big one. ” Kids are more resilient then we think. They would’ve gotten over it and probably enjoyed it.
Ok, maybe I would not have said that. But we tend to err on the “don’t react” side…don’t “give them the satisfaction” of a reaction. I am learning that sometimes it might be self-validating to have a reaction – we can’t act like what these people do is inconsequential. That’s what NPDs and EUs do…….they want to appear impervious to other people’s actions. So, I’m learning that I need to show my vulnerability, but do it with strength. Confront the offender. Place the discomfort on them.
“My decision wasn’t based on whether or not YOU wanted kids, don’t flatter yourself. I realized I didn’t want to be chained to you, which I can clearly see was a good decision.”
You are so right Elgie, I have so stopped “Not reacting”, how long can you shrug your shoulders and try to walk off. You can never. Bad behavior needs to called out firmly, strongly and with dignity. There is nothing wrong to show people that you are hurt, you need show you ARE hurt AND you also know how to take care of yourself, and that their chance in your life is over forever.
Pressure of the moment – we were at a party surrounded by people and I felt that I couldn’t make a fuss, especially with his children standing there, who were totally innocent of any nonsense. A wiser person would have ended the conversation right there, but I just didn’t know how at the time.
Recently I ran into my ex; he and one of my close friend’s boyfriend work together at a favored venue. (It’s been well over three years since the breakup; he and I are amicable but keep our distance.) I was taken aback by how handsome he looked (not wanting him back though, oh no no no), but I really was affected by his looks and demeanor. I thought surely everyone in the restaurant noticed his other worldly handsomeness… nope. Later I said to my friend, “I guess you saw so and so, he was working with your boyf and walked past us a few times.” Her response… “No, I didn’t notice. I never notice so and so.”
I had an ex write me an email or letter every bday for a couple of years. The last time (about a year and a half after we broke up) he wrote to say he wanted closure, had met someone and they were expecting a child, had sorted things with his ex wife, blah blah and that I should contact him if I wanted to talk. What a jerk! No one asked him to write and ruin my birthday and I certainly didn’t want to know about his happy news (was still single and lonely myself). Nor did I have any interest in processing his stupid family life with him.
Passive aggressive indeed. If he was happy with his new person and excited about having a child why write to me and suggest that I get in touch with him? Ew. I told him to have some decency and not to contact me again and then I blocked him by phone and email. His total lack of consideration cured me of wondering and wishing, though, the biggest bday gift he could have given me ; )
Omg yes! I went NC with a guy I dated for four years. Two years later he calls me from a new number to tell me he wants to use me as a job reference because “I was a huge part of his past,” and could vouch for him. He also told me he’s been dating other people. (Ok?) I told him no and he hung up on me lol.
Oh yeah, I had that ex who called a year later after no contact to tell me he is engaged to the woman he stop seeing me for. Even though I was over him, I never understood what the purpose was for doing something so insensitive. But then I realized he was a jerk when I was dealing with him. I got the last laugh as I said congratulations! “I glad that u found someone that makes u happy”. Not only did he not get a reaction from me, but he looked like an ass. He just prove why walking away was the best decision I ever made.
This hits home. Just leave the words behind. Your actions are enough!
Wish I’d had this advice back then. It’s 25 years since I received a letter from the ex-N telling me a few months since our “just-about-are-an-ex” situation that he was getting close to a new woman. He demanded to know how I felt about it as he still loved me and was hoping for a child with me while I was at University! (there was an age gap between us).
I didn’t reply.
Then a couple of weeks later another letter arrived stating they had got engaged! He was begging me to write to him as phone calls were not getting through (he was at a different university as a mature student).
He wanted to settle down and have family but I was too young, so he settled for this other older woman.
Fortunately I kept No Contact with him since his first letter.
Unfortunately he kept on begging me to go to his wedding 7 months later. He also invited my sister. News always filtered through her but she was fairly discrete.
However 5 years after that a mutual friend wrote a letter and at the end just happened to mention my ex was expecting his first child which he was so desperate for.
The last sentenced said ex says to say “Hi” !
I never asked the mutual friend for news of my ex.
Ex was married, kid on the way and still begging for attention/hook/option/ego stroke. Typical N, always about him.
I’m just glad social media wasn’t around in those days.
He’d kept in contact with his ex (before me) who ended up marrying his best friend so assumed I should stay in touch with him when we split!
I like the current Duran Duran song “You kill me with Silence”.
My silence still speaks volumes.
Best wishes to all those going through NC.