Love is a wonderful thing…when you’re experiencing it. I believed that I’d loved several times prior to this relationship and it’s only through introspection and looking at a relationship with mutual love, care, trust, and respect versus a relationship with drama, pain, ambiguity, all my old love habits and low self-esteem that I realise that I hadn’t really experienced love before.
One of the biggest lessons learned is that love doesn’t hurt. Being in a shady relationship hurts, doing things that bust up your boundaries hurts, as does engaging in stuff that goes against values you profess to have or that has you feeling embarrassed and humiliated.
But genuine, healthy love itself doesn’t hurt you – it’s the stuff you (or they) do that does.
I used to believe that if I truly loved somebody worthy of being loved in a healthy relationship that I would be hurt, hence why it was easier to back three-legged horses as I knew it wasn’t going to work out so it was ‘safe hurt’.
Love requires vulnerability. Within a relationship, if you’re both putting yourselves into it and aren’t throwing up walls that impede intimacy, that vulnerability that so many of us fear, is a shared experience.
Love really isn’t all that dramatic. Being raised in a drama filled household means I used to be a real drama seeker and thought that the highs and lows signalled passion, excitement and chemistry. Actually, it signified pain and unhealthy relationships.
Love doesn’t make you do crazy stuff – drama does.
Love is steady and growing. I take as much pleasure in the normal, run of the mill days where we’re bumbling through life, as I do some of the days where there is a heady rush, or an extra sense of intimacy. There’s as much intimacy in sharing your life with someone and being able to co-exist and share your deepest thoughts, to laugh about something and nothing, to sit quietly side by side immersed in your own stuff but still connected, to go to sleep listening to them breathing (or snoring), and to partake in some of the rituals of your life, you know those many little habits that gradually form over time that are particular to your relationship.
Life isn’t a fairy tale. We’re not Vivian in Pretty Woman or a princess/prince in one of our childhood stories. This is real life, not a Mills and Boon novel or romantic comedy. Love isn’t about busting up a load of obstacles and finally getting together in the last couple of chapters or the last ten minutes of the film.
Love is not about getting someone to make you the exception to the norm, especially if the norm is not such a healthy way of conducting themselves for a relationship.
Don’t take love for granted. To love and be loved isn’t to be dismissed. I receive thousands of emails and comments each year from people who really want this and yeah, they might have been looking for love in the wrong places, but they do in essence want love. I equally receive thousands of mails each year from people who are actually in a loving relationship or have a wealth of wonderful things going on in their lives, but they’re killing it with their own stuff and not appreciating themselves or what they have.
If you have met someone and you love them and they love you, stop killing it with second guessing and looking for drama – embrace it! Enjoy it! Don’t suck the life out of it by being distrusting and waiting for the bad shoe to drop.
Equally, don’t disregard those around you and devalue yourself or them because you are not currently in the relationship you would like to be.
Love starts with you first and foremost, and genuine, fulfilling, happy love doesn’t exist when you don’t like and love yourself. I’m not saying you can’t experience any love without your self-esteem but you’ll be like a balloon with a tiny hole with the air slowly going out of it – deflated. They’ll try to blow more air into it (love), but you won’t be able to get it before some more slips out through the hole.
I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that there’s no way in hell I would have embraced my relationship if I hadn’t learned to love myself and actually believe in love and more importantly my worthiness for a relationship.
Love yourself unconditionally before you start loving others unconditionally and without limits – boundaries. When you truly like and love you, period, nothing and nobody can come along and change how you feel about you. You can live your life being personally secure.
Love is supposed to enrich your soul and your life – a life that should already have people and things that you can derive pleasure and love from. Don’t make one person, one thing even, the sole source of your happiness and love.
‘Love’ can be a very easy word to bandy about but it takes thoughts connected with actions connected with words, consistently for true meaning.
Love needs commitment, at the very least being able to commit to feeling out your feelings. If you shut it down before it can really blossom, you’re limiting yourself which creates limited, often painful relationships.
Sometimes I think we’ve stopped believing in love in a healthy guise. Believe it. Embrace it. The moment that you stop believing that love is out there for you, is the moment you give up on yourself. Love doesn’t just happen – even if you bump into The Most Perfect Person On Earth, you still need to work at it.
Happy Valentine’s day. Exhale, embrace, enjoy and if you’re finding it tough today, remember this day shall pass and don’t get hijacked by your feelings.
Love Natalie/NML x
Your thoughts?
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Natalie: As always – thank you. I got a call from an old flame who decided to tell me on Valentine’s Day that he is now engaged. It just completely sums up my entire relationship with him. Good riddance, I can now say with a healed heart. Your website has helped me realize that love flows freely in both directions and that is what I deserve. Thank you again.
@Cam – you TOO! LOL are these guys pathetic or what – my EXhubbyAC did the same thing – like I care. Wanted me to do the wedding photos AS IF!@!!! NOT! Didn’t even bother to tell his son who was quite surprised and wanted to slap some sense into him – he said sounds like cohersion to him – his opinion not mine. Agreed – I can see that pretty clearly. Glad my sons (young adults) both see him for what/who he is. LOL They never change but I can laugh about it now.
Thank you for this post. I really needed it today. What you said about love not hurting and not being about drama really struck a chord with me.
About a month ago, I ended a relationship that I was completely miserable in. He swore he loved me, but he was completely unreliable and often lied to me. I think the reason I stayed in it as long as I did is because I hadn’t yet learned to trust myself. I kept telling myself that I was being paranoid, that I needed to have more faith, that I was being my usual emotionally unavailable self. But when the broken promises kept piling up, I knew that this man was not good for me and, for my own well-being, I needed to get out. When I called it off and told him that I needed someone reliable and steady, someone who kept their word, he told that security was overrated (!!!!) and that I was neurotic. He said that he’d take passion over security any day. I happily cut off contact with him after that.
The other day he sent me a text, telling me how he was sorry and that he missed me. Although a part of me felt like a bitch for not replying, I knew (from reading this blog) that I need to maintain NC. If it weren’t for the wonderful advice you’ve given here, I probably would have replied and started the whole dysfunctional cycle over again. So, again, thank you.
This Valentine’s Day I’m going to be my own valentine. 🙂
I’ll be your Valentine Jen anytime – hugs!!!
I am so glad I have this “place” to come to. Tomorrow is the the exact 6 month break-up. And I thought I was doing good – was out running errands and thought I saw his truck with someone in it. My first instict was to follow it – HAHA – but didn’t. But did have a melt down in the parking lot at the grocery store. I hate feeling these feelings. So instead of grocvery shopping I ran home to see what Nat was writing cause I needed a reality check.
Was starting the self-blame, it’s all my fault, it was cause of all the stress I was under the last couple years and he’s going to live happily after – and I AM NOT READY FOR A RELATIONSHIP YET – still working on me.
Every year I get special presents for my nieces and nephews for Valentine’s Day and I call all the special people in my life that I love, so I got that done.
But can this day be over soon – I hate that I have let a stupid day dictate how I feel today – UGGGGGGGHHHHH!
hi Aimee,
I think running into the ex and seeing someone new in there would be hard on any day and I am proud of you for checking this site instead of doing something obsessive.
I don’t let this day get to me because I look at it as another day. I find many couples hate this day along with the single people. My Ex FWB phoned me today to wish me happy gay valentines day because he hates this day as much as Christmas he said.
I did something today in hopes of heading in the right direction. I embraced the fact that he has a girlfriend instead of wishing he would see the light that he should go back to being single, because he said he was happier being single. I said to him that he should think of her more than himself for once and buy her something nice even though he doesn’t want to. He sent me a msg back later and said he knows he should, and he will later.
One of my friends asked me how do I feel about embracing it instead of fighting it. I said it is double edge sword I know that he makes me miserable as lovers but he didn’t make me miserable for four years before when we were just platonic friends, so if I can get over the fact that we use to be intimate and can go back to being friends, he is a good friend to me. Besides I don’t miss the part of being lovers with someone who is emotionally unavailable.
I also realize she is a big help to keeping him at a distance from me because he wants to get together now but I told him I am not ready and I am not sure when.
I hope you can embrace that them having someone new helps kept them away from us or they would probably be bugging us.
Thank you, Movedup. Hugs to you, too!
Hang in there, Aimee. It’ll all be over soon. Doing something special for your family is a great way to mark the day. Honour the people who really love you and will be there for you. I decided to buy a little something special for my mom and it made me feel a lot better about the day. (I also treated myself to some chocolate!)
And the ex-AC’s text message today wishing me a Happy Valentine’s Day only sent me spiraling into seething fury for an hour or two. lol (No, I didn’t reply!)
It sure does 🙂 My mother bought flowers but they didn’t fill her vase, so I offered to buy two more bunches. Her dining table looks lovely now 🙂
Thank you for this post and all your others!! I really needed a reminder today.
My ex EUM broke up with me about 3 months ago and it’s been 1 month NC. During our breakup (it lasted about an hour), he went back and forth about his decision. During the last time he went back and forth it finally hit me, this isn’t what I want. I shouldn’t have to “convince” someone to want to be with me. Now, that the rose-colored glasses are off I can see how un-healthy the relationship was. I knew I didn’t feel right but I didn’t know why, I thought I was being paranoid and expecting too much. It didn’t feel right because I was trying to change my wants and values to align with his because I was scared to lose him but that is not who I am or who I want to be. While I did let myself get hijacked by my emotions sometimes, I was also reacting to his instabillity (his words rarely matched his actions) and him crossing my boundaries.
While I realize all this now and have no desire to be with him I still have been feeling down lately. I thought we could be friends but when he wrote about the end of our breakup on facebook, that put the nail in the coffin. He has continuously treated me poorly and with disrespect and that is not someone I want in my life. It feels good to finally stand up for myself but I guess I’ve been feeling down because he hasn’t tried to contact me. I feel like maybe I wasn’t enough for him. I know that has to do with me and my self esteem issues more than him but what you said about experiencing love without self esteem being like a balloon with a tiny hole in it really hit me. There was NEVER going to be enough with him. I could have been everything he wanted me to be and it still never would have been enough.
Going to keep trying to put the focus back on me and try to learn to love myself. From the bottom of my heart, thank you. You and reading everyone’s comments has really helped me get through this and understand what was happening so I will hopefully not make the same mistakes again. Happy Valentines Day, everyone!! 🙂
Happy Valentines Nat! Reflecting back at Valentine’s Day past – I remember the drama, the dissappointment as if this one day of the year meant the world. I got better Valentines in grade school – little pieces of paper in my carefully decorated folder that hung in front of my desk as we all scurried to place our enveloples in each others – well wishes, secret admirers. How joyous then. When did it happen when we put so much on this one day of the year – seeking validation – assurances – pressure.
I quitely reflect on this one thought – if the ExEUM/ACs of my past hadn’t been so unhealthy and pointed out to me how unhealthy I was – I wouldn’t know what a healthy relationship is. Now I do and truely every day is Valentines Day and yes as long as you work at it! Labor of love and worth every minute of it.
AMAZING piece! 🙂 Natalie Lue you are amazing! Happy V-day everyone!
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Reading your post made me smile…was feeling a little down today. Thanks for the reminders, especially to exhale!
Thoughts, Feelings, & Actions Must Match
Congruence-being consistent between how you feel and the way you act-is an important goal fostering honesty and communication.
In other words, you thoughts, feelings, and actions should match and send the same messages.
People who are incongruent may claim one thing and act in an altogether different manner.
Essentially, they are hiding their true selves from others and sometimes from themselves.
Feelings and actions need to resemble one another, but they also need to be appropriate (i.e., polite, mannerly) and within society’s norms.
The hungry screams of a young child are congruent (age linked with behavior), but the same behavior is terribly incongruent in a thirty-year-old-man.
Sending off mixed messages harms just about any relationship. It’s like living a lie.
So, make sure that you “walk your talk.” This also goes a long way toward helping you become more expressive and assertive, in a positive way.
Such an EXCELLENT post Nat!
Especially this:
“If you have met someone and you love them and they love you, stop killing it with second guessing and looking for drama – embrace it! Enjoy it! Don’t suck the life out of it by being distrusting and waiting for the bad shoe to drop.”
…I was always “second guessing” and ” waiting for the bad shoe to drop”! I’ve learned so much, and IT FEELS HEAVENLY to open my heart, be emotionally available, and vulnerable in a healthy committed relationship filled with mutual LOVE, CARE, TRUST, and RESPECT from the same!
I would not be where I am now (an EAW) if I hadn’t stumbled on your site looking for answers to the question “emotionally unavailable”, with regard to some AC. The real work started with me…what an epiphany that was. Thank you so much for being here for all of us!
This is true. Car journeys are not the same thing as car accidents!
joe, this made me laugh. it’s very appropriate too. we’re too busy with the drama to realise there’s no substance. at all.
This post is awesome and I love it. Today I am so happy because I totally forgot about the date and I didn’t realise it was Valentine’s Day until a colleague walked up to me to wish me a nice day!! LOL
Feels soooo nice to not have an assclown to obsess over! To not secretly expect cards or flowers or chocolates or flurry animals!! To not check the phone for missed calls, SMS’s, Facebook, or smoke signals!! To not having to figure out what is going on on the mind of an assclown!! The only Valentine’s Day wishes I’ve sent today were to my mum, my dad and my bro. No drama, no tears, no feeling sorry for myself for not being in a relationship, nor angry or jealous of those who are. Not resented about my friend’s Facebook statuses and photos. The day is over here where I live, and I spent it as usual: working, at the gym, and watching Project Runway 😀 Although, there was one special thing I did today: I wrote a super long gratitude email to Natalie. Without her I would not be here and today would not have been spent as it was spent. She guided me back to the land of self love and self respect, and perhaps, just starting today, I may be able to start calling myself a ‘former fallback girl’.
Lots of love xx
Hey Elle,
Good to hear from you again! I think we started our journeys on BR at about the same time. I too feel healthy and healed and i’m so glad to hear you do too.
A big thanks to Nat indeed, from another former Fallback Girl. 🙂
Thanks so much!! Great to hear you’re doing so well too!! 🙂 xx
Happy Valentines Day for all the posters and others that read this great column! I know it is hard (believe me, I’ve been there) but try not to let anyone steal your joy on any day! Time does make things easier. “Things are subject to change!” has been a phrase I have used to get through many difficulities!
Thanks for this, Natalie. I am crying as I write this because I am so confused and a mess. I was on the up and up as soon as my ex went back overseas but lately I’m just falling to pieces. I know I don’t love myself enough, but that means I’m now blaming myself for the fact that my relationship fell apart. I know it’s stupid to do that but I am so very self-critical. Last night I couldn’t sleep, I’ve not been eating well, I know it’s affecting my work and my friendships. At 4am I was texting my ex and he told me to go to sleep and that he would ring me in a few days. I feel like every time I contact him I not only dig us further into a dark hole but that he’s thinking less and less of me (and more and more glad that he’s on the other side of the world away from crazy Betty) and I hate myself more.
I wish I knew how to stop hurting and blaming and feeling guilty and wanting so desperately to make things better.
@Betty: Betty, you are killing yourself with self blame and guilt. You need to stop – its NOT YOUR FAULT it didn’t work out. Your guy was never going to be with you the way you wanted him to be and he was never going to be the man you wanted him to be. EVER. He is who he is.
I think the hardest thing to do is to accept that the person you cared about and loved was not worth the effort. That is a very hard pill to swallow.
You must see him for what he is Betty – completely emotionally unavailable and not able/does not want to give you a proper relationship and does not want to be in a bona fide proper relationship.
Betty, the only way forward is to cut contact. Texting is just bad news. its too tempting to text someone and too easy for them to text you.. Betty, have you thought about changing your mobile number??? It’s the best way forward.
It will be a new beginning for you and it will be a big sign for you and for him that its over for good -there must be no more faffing about. I don’t like to say this but you’re going around in circles and you’re hoping he’ll change… he won’t. He’s 45, he’s past changing now.
Betty, it is worth making changes now – change your mobile no., defriend him on facebook, block his e-mails and i can guarantee you when you do this, you will begin to be more positive and frankly relieved.
There are loads of good men out there. Don’t you want to be with a man who will give you what you want, who will care about you and your feelings, love you and put his heart into the relationship? It is worth waiting for a good man and a man who will treat you like you’re special. I’ll come back on here later to day cos i want to be here for you to help you . audrey.
Betty, I think you’ve gotten somewhat overwhelmed with your feelings and what’s happened and maybe, it’s time for you to sit down and speak with someone about what has been happening. You’re not going to instantly love yourself just because you know that you should – it takes consistent effort in doing right by yourself. Examples of that are not blaming yourself for other people’s actions or things that someone else had a part in, eating, sleeping, putting some focus into your work, family, friends and rebuilding your life one brick at a time instead of coming to a standstill, putting your phone away, cutting the alcohol, giving yourself a ‘time out’ from your ex of a month to get your head straight and if at the end of that month after 100% focus on you and dealing with your feelings, you still feel the urge to contact him, deal with it when the time comes, but make a commitment now to have a month off.
I’ll be honest with you – the fact that he told you to go to sleep and that he would call you in a few *days* as opposed to a few *hours* says a lot…
If you know that you dig yourself further into a black hole each time you make contact, why would you then choose to make contact?
You’re looking for attention from your ex which is a tad futile because he wasn’t exactly Mr Attention when you were with him.
You cannot make *him* better – you’re trying to control the uncontrollable. It’s his job to make him better and actually, he doesn’t think he has anything to make better as he’s getting on with his merry little life.
Your job is to make *you* better – you can’t make *things* better, *you* need to feel better and you’ll start doing that the moment you stop throwing yourself under the proverbial car and wondering why you’re getting run over.
You’re not crazy, you’re hurt and hijacked by your feelings because you are completely focused on this one person when you should be focused on you.
What is it with these guys sending texts today, I also got one and I quote “Happy Heart Day”. I rolled my eyes, said “dumb ass” and proceded to go about my day. Like Jen I’m my own Valentine today and I love it. I also took my daughters out to lunch over the weekend, what a lovely time we had. Makes me realize just how good life can be.
These men, without fail, ALWAYS act up around major holidays – especially Valentine’s Day, Xmas, & New Year’s Eve/Day. (You can add Thanksgiving to that if you’re in the United States or Canada.) It’s so predictable that it’s laughable. 😉 Keep ignoring the fake texts/calls/e-mails.
Beautiful post Natalie,thanks for sharing it 🙂
It’s funny you mentioned after some introspection that you realized you were never really in love in the past, until now… because that is one of the things that I realized, I realized I never experienced true love beside the unhealthy sort and really grateful that I will have the chance to experience it with a breathe of fresh air.
Thanks for this post Natalie. I really needed to read this today. After all the progress I made, about 20 mins ago I felt like I took a step back. I saw an updated picture of the EUM with his new girl. As his profile pic on fb. On vacation. Until now I was thinking what a relief it was to have escaped a monster like him, but now that he’s lasted so long with this girl and they’ve even travelled together, my idea of him and who he is has slighty turned on its head. How has he found this new girl and attached himself so quickly? I thought he was commitment phobic? I thought he just wanted something casual? How does any of this make sense? Today I was all about celebrating my love for myself, but after seeing this I’m questioning everything all over again 🙁
Teatime,
Why don’t you block him? Why hurt yourself unnecessarily by looking at his profile.
Agreed.
Agreed. He’s not even worth it.
Re-read Natalie’s post of “when they moved on….why is he with her when he could be mistreating me instead””
I had the same problem. So I wrote down a list of all the times that he hurt me and I go back and look at that list when I am feeling a tug on my heart. It’s easy to look at a photo and believe all is well, but, as Nat has reminded us all so often, people don’t change. She is getting the short end of the stick too. You deserve better.
@Allison and ph2072 – I’ve deleted him but haven’t blocked him. I had him blocked for a while but I unblocked him because I felt weak not being able to control myself. I think I should do it anyway, since I clearly am not ready to see these updates going on in his life without having some sort of emotional reaction.
@LK – That is actually what I ended up doing last night. I knew I could count on Natalie’s posts to help me understand. I felt better after reading it, but I still feel a bit down when I woke up today and thought of the picture I saw. The post makes perfect sense, but sometimes my mind likes to play devil’s advocate and then I start thinking in circles.
@Cam – Thank you for this idea. I will make a similar list and use it on days like this. What this picture meant to me was that he is treating her better. They’ve been together longer, they went on vacation, and he even had the nerve to put a pic of the two of them up as his profile pic for all to see. And this coming from someone who kept me at arm’s length and said he didn’t want a relationship and would be a ‘bad boyfriend’ when I asked him where things stood with us after a few months of back and forth, hot and cold behaviour. I really do hope that you and Nat are right though, and that these people do not change overnight. I mean, I do not wish anyone else to be mistreated by him, but at the same time it helps to know that this new girl is not getting a new and better version of him that I never saw.
Oh I guarantee that she isn’t getting anything better. Just be glad that you got away from that situation. There are better things out there for you. I work with my EUM and I have to see him every day. He is getting married and is “happily attached.” But I know that he is the same emotional wasteland that he always was. I am not angry or hurt anymore. Just stronger for the experience and even more sure that love – “real love” – is out there for me. I should have never tried to settle for less. Neither should you.
Those lists are priceless! I have several in my journal and even a shorthand one that I know off-by-heart. All I have to do is take a look at them and I’m free and happy.
Another type of list – and this is for ladies who date *down* character-wise (not hard to do with these ACs) – is a list of why you are too good for him and you will be shocked. Mine only beat me in 4 ways: looks, $$, house, and his manual skills (electrician work). I had him hands-down in social, family, and overall character. 🙂
TeaTime,
Something that has helped me that might help you is to reflect on his treatment of you as if he were doing it to another girl.
His ability to treat any woman badly reveals something very low in his character. Do you really want to be with a man who would treat any woman with disrespect? I think not.
And don’t worry about the pictures. My ex AC and I had beautiful pics of us posted and that’s all they were — pics, images. And the best part is as happy as I look in them, I wasn’t even happy when they were being taken. The photos didn’t mean a thing.
Be stong,
Over It
Tea Time,
It doesn’t matter if he is treating her well, he treated you poorly! That’s all that counts!
Teatime,
I know exactly how that feels. The feeling of relief after being free of the ex-AC, then questioning everything all over again because he is now with someone new, and the relationship is still going on.
I kept expecting my ex-AC’s new gf to see at any moment what an AC he was, and dump him. That hasn’t happened.
But I think a lot of the others are right. They don’t change overnight. Real change takes time and a lot of work, and when they get a new gf, I guarantee you they are living off the high of the new relationship and not doing the work.
You sound like I was with my ex-AC. I would question him or call him out on bad behavior. I think that is exactly why we didn’t last. There are plenty of women out there who are more than happy to overlook bad behavior. Perhaps that is the case with these new gf’s. If they put up with more than we did, they get to KEEP him. What a prize.
I know it’s hurtful to see them together smiling in a picture. My advice is please don’t look. And I KNOW it’s harder to do than it sounds. You are probably not looking to hurt yourself, you are probably looking to see if they are no longer together, right?
I hope you know that just because they are still together, it doesn’t mean he is a better person now, and it doesn’t mean she is a better person than you. All it means is that she tolerates him more than you did.
ICanDoBetter – You are absolutely right. I have to admit, I was affected by what I saw for a good 24 hours. Every time I closed my eyes I just saw that picture of the two of them smiling. And yes, I had checked just to see if they were still together. For someone so selfish and who has a history of keeping women around as an ego boost, I didn’t expect to see that as his picture.
But what snapped me back to reality was that exact thought that you mentioned. I think it’s where we start to question their behaviour and put them on the spot that they start to realize they cannot get away with their game anymore. And so they leave us for these other girls – fresh bait!
I know so many people have told me that these people do not change overnight, and that ultimately if they change it comes from themselves and not some other girl. I can’t imagine someone so selfish and self absorbed changing overnight before meeting this girl. I am sure, as you said, that she is putting up with his behaviour…
All I know at this point is that he is out of my hands and I am so thankful for that! I have these moments of weakness where I start to question everything, but thanks to this website and the excellent posts here by people who have met similar men I snap out of it. The healing process is difficult but I feel like I am learning something everyday. Thank you.
Hi Teatime
I think you said he told you ‘I would be a bad boyfriend’. There you go..he KNEW you expected [and deserved] to be treated better then he could, did or wanted to treat you. She might be putting up w/ cr*p you wouldn’t and shouldn’t have put up with.
Simple, beautiful and profound. Thanks for the reminder that it is possible. You teach through example. Happy Valentines Day.
Thank you so much Natalie, you are really gifted with words and the ability to put the fuzzy thoughts and beliefs we all have deep down, into clear messages.
This weekend was really hard for me, not sure why, I was so tempted to call/text my ex-EUM/AC (we’ve been broken up for 3 months – he didn’t even have the decency to break up with me, rather I asked for more of a commitment/effort from him and expressed that I was starting to feel like a booty call and he just stopped talking to me after a 7 month ‘relationship’). I would input his phone digits (I have deleted his number but unfortunately remember it off head!) and stare at the phone screen for minutes on end willing myself to delete. I felt so anxious, agitated and low all at the same time and I kept thinking to myself the horrible feelings would go if I could just talk to him and hear his voice. But then I would remember your advice, about why we have the urge to return to the pain source, about seeking validation (I struggle every day with the bewilderment that in the end he simply didn’t want to be with me except on his pathetic terms), about the need for no contact and that if I broke it now I would just have to go through this pain all over again in the near future. This is what carried me through. And I read your piece on coping with rejection by an EUM/AC over and over again and tried to internalise the understanding that it was not me he rejected, but everything that being in a relationship would force him to do (be reliable, be committed, be available, etc). By the end of Sunday I felt calm again and ready to deal with Valentine’s day on Monday. It was a busy day at work and I got messages from dear friends. And I thanked God at the end of the day for you and your blog because I know that if I had broken NC (on valentines day of all days!) I would be even more humiliated and ashamed about my contacting him (and probably been spoken to in some flippant brush-off manner), and that would only hamper my moving on more.
Thank you Natalie, Happy belated Valentine’s day. I have been through an amazing journey of self awarness since I discovered your blog. I hope you write a book one day for young teenage girls to pass on these wonderful lessons and teachings. I would buy it for every girl I know (and the daughter I one day hope to have) and hopefully save them the 15 years of bad and self-esteem destroying relationships I have been through.
I feel so foolish. I have been reading the blogs on here since September. So, I really should know better. But today, it was just a stupid sad Valentine’s Day. I thought about the last 2 Valentine’s when he had extremely beautiful arrangements delivered to my office. I knew today I wouldn’t get one – see I tried to break up with him last May – 2010! I was tired of the typical EUM behavior – his actions were certainly not matching his words – he was never on time for anything and when he said he’d call or he’d be there – he just wasn’t. I was never a priority – most of this I tried to reason away – he is a single dad of 3 young boys. But, i was feeling totally annoyed and anxious and decided I better call it quits. So I did – but he put up a fuss and begged me not to go – I was the best woman and he had learned so much from me blah blah. Foolishly, it was enough to get me to stay in it, but then he was a super jerk ever after. Totally unreliable – every single thing at his whim – i was really literally becoming the beck and call girl. Back and forth – I’m in, I’m out, he loves me, he doesn’t – for months now. I knew it was unhealthy, but somehow I continued to engage. Stupid charmer. Anwyay – was feeling quite pleased that I was on day 8 of NC today.(I know..it seems so little) Came home from work, was running a bath, made a little bourbon drink, chatted with my sis…and then the dreaded little text sound. “Happy Valentine’s Night”. I recoiled when I saw it and didn’t respond. Then… a minute later – have something to bring by – are you home? And surely enough, he comes by with a lovely arrangement, and then dashes off into the night. ARGH. I guess I should have said – no I’m not home? (lie) Or yes I am home, but I don’t want your flowers? (rude). I feel o.k. – I suppose it is because I got the validation I was seeking. I was remembered on this day with flowers. Is it sad that at the end of the day I was happy to get them? I know it is. Because what I really want is just to talk to him – to have him ask me how my day was, and for me to ask about his. But it doesn’t happen that way – even after all this time. It really is amazing how he has totally managed down my expectations. I know I need to move on. I really want to get there.
marie
enjoy the flowers and forget him, there’s no need for it to be a big deal.
i had a terrific valentine’s day. i ate the chox that the girls brought into the office from their boyfs and went for a run in the evening.
You are so right! I will enjoy them for what they are. I won’t read into the gesture – it doesn’t mean he wants a relationship, or that he has come to his senses! It was V-Day – he thought about me for a second and gave me flowers. And that is that. Glad you enjoyed some chocolate and went for a healthy run.
Marie,
Your post totally resonated with me as I recently dealt with a very similar situation- single dad with three kids with whom I always seemed to come last. I kept giving him the benefit of the doubt because of his predicament. But like your guy, his actions and words did not add up, he managed down my expectations and his inconsistency was unbearable. He also was successful in convincing me to stay but I still found myself always wondering “what about me? where do I fit in?” I finally severed ties completely and worked on regaining my dignity and sanity. Now, a few months later, I’ve made a lot of progress and can see things from a more objective and healthier standpoint. I know that you too can reach a similar peaceful place. Best of luck.
Thank you – it’s always great to hear that people move on and get their sanity back. The inconsistency is indeed unbearable. I’m so glad to hear that you aren’t in that situation any longer! Good for you!
Grace….. you’re attitude is so good!! i’m smiling here to myself!
There’s nothing more to add. Poignant, sweet, and to the point. Great blog entry.
*APPLAUSE*
Well said, as always Nat. Thank you for keeping my head out of the clouds and my feet on the ground. Working hard on loving myself and appreciating the drama-free version of a healthy relationship after chasing after “potential” and making excuses for EUM behavior for YEARS!!! This too, was just another day…does not define my value as someone loveable. I know my man loves me, we’re working on making our relationship work, I just have to accept that he shows me how he feels in ways that are different from what I expect. We communicate differently….we’re working on it 🙂 … but it’s good, really good.
I am so thankful for having Baggage Reclaim as a resource for comfort. I too have been burned by an EUM. For 2 years I was stuck on the roller coaster and still find myself dizzy from the ride. I read the stories and comments and I see myself in all the stages posted except the end. I am close but still struggling to overcome how I could let someone treat me the way I allowed him to. It has been over since this last summer between the 2 of us, but I was still allowing him to re enter on his terms when he wanted. Last month was the final straw. We made a pact to cut all ties including family and move on. I did my part but he of course, Captain Reliable has not lived up to his. I still see he is on my brother in laws FB and it is driving me insane!!! I have reminded him of our deal but he is now doing NC with me. I have asked my brother in law, who doesn’t even like the guy, to remove the AC, but he has not. UURRGGHH:( I have tried blocking him. but it still makes me crazy that he wants to hang on. Help! I hate this insanity cycle I am on. Do u think I am wrong to want him to be gone all the way gone? He and my brother in law are not friends in the none electronic world so what gives?
I’m new and approaching only 60 days NC (kindof with one slip this weekend…sucked it and saw). I’m thinking maybe letting go of him will help you. Usually, when you are giving advice, it is advice you need to follow. Thus, I need to let go of him too. My ex MM is still lurking around, like yours, seeing if he can get an ego stroke, shoulder to lean on, and maybe a shag. My ex MM seems to love connecting with MY friends, who he never talked to before too. In my circumstance, he’s angling to get back together. I was a great mistress, depsite the fact I blew up and melted down weekly, sometimes daily. I do not think you are wrong in wanting him gone. We can make them gone.
I’m working for a relationship as Nat describes in this post. This weekend, I lived the “I miss you but not getting back with you” post. It was really eye opening. He is just too “f**king messed up”. I’m listening to every word they say now. Based on what I’ve read on this blog, they are usually telling us “run like hell”. I’m running and hoping to work through my stuff to get to where it it calm, peaceful, respectful, loving, and trusting. I’d run like hell if I were in your shoes.
runnergirl
You sucked it and saw?! Well, good for you for getting that over with and I’m sorry to hear (but not surprised, of course, after so many weeks on this blog) that he did not do better by you. You can move on even further now.
Btw, 60 days of NC is amazing. Good for you. I was surprised after 60 days how much feeling was still there; it has now been five months and I still have pangs, though the calmness and the connecting with myself runs deeper every day. Despite the pangs, I feel I’m moving on. Nonetheless, don’t forget what a setback it would be to let him reel you back after so many days of progress. Keep on loving yourself!
The day after V day……
I started NC on Dec 2 , 2010. My divorce was final Dec 15, 2010.
I have few friends and no family and I do not drive, so resisting the urge to “need” him has been the biggesst challenge of all.
I am also a by product of the drama filled life. Drama filled childhood with drama filled teens took me right into a drama filled young adult and carried on into 2 drama filled marriages .
I have gotten so much benefit from Natalie’s posts about boundries. She made me aware that I truly had no concept of what they were, or how to set them for myself.
I am pleased to say that while I have not mastered this , I am at least aware and I give thought to what is happening to me and I realise it is ok to divorce people who do not respect your boundries. It might be a boyfriend or a husband, it might be a girlfriend or a parent or a sibling.
On Valentines, My x left a dozen red roses and some chocolates on my doorstep.. I had been out and I found them when I was coming in the house.
I still have not seen his face since dec 2.
He has recently texted to me saying that he “still has feelings for me” and writing to me (i presume for emotional support) about the death of his cousin. Normally, I would be so tender hearted that I would want to rush in and make things all better for him suffering no matter what he had done to me.
Thanks to Natalie, I simply and sincerely
wrote him and said that I was sorry for his familys loss, and I hoped that they were all good support for each other during their sad time.
In the meantime,
I have met a man online who lives about an hours drive from me.
He is really nice, very open. I have been talking to him since November of 2010.
I know that the online thing is fairly taboo, but other than that, He has given me his home phone, work phone, cell phone, access to most things about him.
His wife passed away during the summer and he joined a dating site sometime after.
He said from the first that he met me, that while it was tragic that his wife had died, but he said that they had not been in love for years and that they just did not get on. He said he married on the rebound after his first wife left him.
Prior to being married to her, he had another wife. Said he was married for 20 years, and then she left him because they had simply grown apart.
He is 50. I am 47.
He owns no property. I own a house.
While I am reading this post today, about when you find a person who makes you actually feel good, being open, to not destroy it.
Well,I can tell you , I am picking holes in everything about this guy and trying to guess any ulterior motives. I make up scenarios in my head about him and his deceased wife. (like if he had anything to do with her passing)
He said he didnt have any friends because his deceased wife would not allow him to have any. He said he just has his co workers , then went home at night and painted , watched tv etc.
I have been out with him five or six times, he is always polite and dosnt try to force me to do anything, I have not so much as even kissed him.
I have not allowed him to my house. I always tell someone where I am going and I meet him out.
He really likes me, wants to help me do stuff around my house if I would let him, but I reject it.
I really do not know how to proceed with him, I have said I am just looking for friendship and he says he is ok with that but,honestly I believe he is looking for more.
I am very VERY very unsure of how to proceed with him going forward.
I do like having someone to talk to, and someone to go do stuff with. It is really nice. It is also very nice to be with someone who actually treats me nice.
But, I thought the X was nice when I first met him.
My first husband, I knew was a bastard and I married him anyway .
I did keep the roses, and the dog got into the chocolate while I was out of the house and ate it all. I hope he will be ok as dogs are not supposed to have chocolate.
As much as I have learned, I still feel so lost at the new situations coming up for me.
I sooooo do not want to get it wrong again. I want to get life right and start really enjoying it from here on. I do enjoy the new fellas company but just so unsure about myself and the unknown things about new people.
Steel,
I’m confused??? Was he married two or three times?
The thing I thought was odd, was that he doesn’t have any friends. For me this is a big red flag. Also, doesn’t he have any other activities outside of just coming home in the evenings?
He was married the first time for a time span of 20 years, married in 79, divorced in april 99. They had one son, and he is still close with his son and has a grandson. His wife left him before the divorce was final(may 98) . After six months he met the one who would become wife number 2(nov 98) , and moved in with her 4 months later(march 1999), lived together for 2 years and 4 months then got married.(july 2001)She died aug 16l 2010. That put their total marriage at 9 years. He said it was a rebound marriage and it was over years before she died.
I met him online November 2010. He said he online since october .
I asked him about how he would be looking for a mate so soon after she passed, and he said that he knew he had made a terrible mistake 2 years into the marriage but kept on trying to make it work.
He says that “the lust” wore off for both of them. He totally admits that he made the biggest mistake of his life getting married so fast after his divorce.
He said he was not allowed to go off with his men friends or persue his own interests because she made his life a living hell if he tried.
But now that she has passed, He is free to persue what ever .
He paints, golfs with work colleague, tv, internet, sometimes goes in the pub across the road, visit with family (step kids and his own son and his parents) His step daughter still lives with him (she split up with her bf and moved back in when her mom was alive)
Thats as much as I know about him personally, He seems nice and the 5 times I have been out with him, hes completely polite and nice and respectful.
But, I have gotten it wrong so many times, There is every chance I am wrong about him too.
As of yet, he hasnt done anything to make me feel bad when I am around him, but, I am suspicious of everyone I guess.
I am enjoying his company, but ruining it by cross examining every single thing about him.
“He said he was not allowed to go off with his men friends or persue his own interests because she made his life a living hell if he tried.”
I have some difficulty with this. If he knew shortly into the marriage it was a rebound and he was miserable, why didn’t he get out? There were no kids, and she sounds horrible. Something doesn’t add up!
uumm… there are a few bits here that I see as red flags.
1. no friends because his wife didn’t allow it?
2. did the wife died just last summer? isn’t it too soon to date again?
3. did you divorce just 2 months ago? isn’t it too soon to date again?
4. he said he married her late wife on a ‘rebound’, yet stayed 20 years with her? :-0
5. I think there’s a reason why you are feeling so insecure about all this and my recommendation would be to proceed with care.
Just my .02
More valid points!
Thanks Elle… Those are all questions I am pondering myself.
So, I have no contact with my x husband.
I have few friends of my own, Not least of all because I have only been in this country for almost 5 years (august)
Is it too soon for me to date? Is it too soon for me to go out with someone as a friend? Is it wrong of him to not want to be alone any longer? Do women not ever truly raise mortal hell when their men try to go off with their blokes? I did not say normal women, I just said some women…. Because some women are like that. Yet, What if he is that way and blaming her?
I have 2 points of view from this post today.
I have been having some nice times with a new friend , because that is all he is as of NOW. 5 dates and not even a kiss.
no hand holding. Just an evening here and there (and that is because of ME, he makes loads of offers of things to do. and we talk on line or on the phone and there is not a time where I would not be allowed to contact him at home or at work so that all feels reasonably safe.
Now either I can question it to death, and hold him up to not having a perfect past (and he should be doing the same to me, but he isnt!)
I am just trying to find a way forward, I want to get it right, I have all these questions, same as you have presented, and then I have another notion, of I am actually having a nice time,and discecting it to bits until there will be nothing left but smoke and ash.
And, as Allison said , they are all valid points but I just feel more confused than EVER!
Steel Dove,
This man says a number of things that are troubling. What concerns me more is that you are jumping into dating mere weeks after a second marriage you admit was drama-filled.
Have you learned how to choose better, how to trust yourself, and how to have a life filled with friends, activities, and love for yourself before you start dating again?
My sense is if you take a year or two off and get some perspective on your long-term relationships, really focus on you, you’ll come to a place where you would be able to make the call on someone like this new ‘friend’ in a few seconds without doubting your judgment.
Sending warmth and care
Steel
In our age group the chances of meeting a man without a problematic relationship history is low to zero. If he’s never been married that’s a bad sign, so is a failed marriage, as is single too long, or single for not long enough.
Also, few of us here have blameless pasts either. If we were all to be judged by our pasts, none of us should date again. I guess the question is, has he learned? Is he self aware? What would he do differently and that is what you’re finding out. Ultimately, it is up to you but, really, it’s unrealistic to expect a man or woman in their 40s/50s to have no baggage.
I would try to enjoy it and find out more about him.
I genuinely appreciate everyones opinion.
I do not want to get into any kind of relatonship that can cause me trouble.
But, I dont really want to wait 2 years before I am able to enjoy the benefit of having the company of others just because I may not be completely self assured that there is NO chance I will never get it wrong again.
That leaves me in a sort of fence straddeling position, and when you have one foot on each side you are not really going anywhere until you lift the other leg over and move.
I am aware of the kinds of things that make me feel uncomfortable with behavior towards me . I do think that I would be able to act on that in my own best interest and dead halt any relationship that was disrespectful.
My divorce was final in December 2010, however, My marriage ended boxing day 2008. My husband finally moved out of the house on July 2010. Although we have lived separately(under the same roof) since Dec 2008, I have not been out with anybody other than my neighbor/girlfriend since that time. I have been in counciling for the 2 years, and learning as much as I can about me.
Thats 2 years of my life gone, being afraid of nearly everyone. It is a difficult journey to step out and try to trust people, even as friends. And every single point and red flag that you have mentioned,I have already thought about and pick pick picking at it in my head like a big fat scab.
But then, As Grace mentioned, In our age catagory (it does not mean we should settle!) But it is sort of impossible to imagine anyone who has gotten this far in life with no mistakes. We all have history and the longer you live the more of it you make. People make sacrafices in marriages for themselves and thier partners, and sometimes they are in vain.
His giving up friends and activities so that she wouldnt be worried that he was going to go out and meet another woman and leave her, well that might be a nutty thing to do, but, if he thought it was in the best interest of his marriage, I dont know how to argue with that. Does that put him on the bad person registry to be avoided at all costs? I do not know…maybe it does. Maybe he is a spineless whimp who can be bossed around by women. Maybe in some way he even liked it because if she made that big of a fuss over him maybe he felt like he was something special to be worried over. I have to admit, it is the thought of that , that I do not like the most about him. With out that thought, and just based on his behavior, He is nice and respectful and happy.I have no idea what makes all the little ticks people have or why they stay together , other than the fact that we are social ISH creatures by nature, and few people want to spend their life alone.
But , spending time alone is a pure treat compared to spending it with someone who has no regard or value for our very being.
I am not trying to marry this guy. I am not even trying to make him my man!
I am just taking a baby step towards trying to make a new friend, and take things day by day.
It seems like he is trying to do the same.
So, I have taken the 2 years on myself, met a new friend and I am still lost because he is NOT perfect and he has a broken track record . Guess I have plenty more work to do.
What am I missing here? Its something with me, it has to be. Something I am just not getting. Natalie says sometimes “you dont see the wood through the trees”. Is that me?
Steel Dove, let me give you a few pieces of advice. It is impossible to avoid making mistakes. It’s this pressure to be ‘right’ that traps people in inaction or has them trying to force a situation to be ‘right’ so that they don’t have to admit they were wrong. Everyone has a past and if we mark down people for it, we must mark ourselves down and not put ourselves on a golden perch. It’s not about him being perfect because no-one is – it’s about through the process of interacting with him and listening to yourself, working out if this is something that you want to be a part of. He may be over his wife, especially as he claims he didn’t love her. Not exactly a glowing reference of his own emotional behaviour but you need to also judge him on the basis of your interactions. People handle things in different ways – plenty of readers of this blog have stayed in damaging relationships, so really, it’s not exactly a leap to imagine that he could have stayed with someone he wasn’t in love with any longer. Also, him giving up his friends and interests – hello, again, I’ve seen countless readers not only give up their friends and interests, but give up *themselves* for the sake of a relationship. He has obviously made mistakes. It’s whether he has grown out of these experiences.
Make your own decisions. Make your own judgements. It’s not up to me or anyone here to live your life for you or to tell you what you should or shouldn’t do. Only you know why this man is attractive to you, whether he reflects your old pattern, whether he reflects any beliefs you have, or whether it’s just genuinely about making a friend. Learn to work it out by listening to yourself and judging the situation as it happens. If *you* think that there are things that cross your boundaries or are red flags, judge it on that basis. I don’t think you’re entirely ready for a relationship but if you’re going to start something, it’s your responsibility to get yourself up to speed and deal with any issues and start implementing what you’ve learned. And remember – he’s not the only friend you can make. There are other people out there too.
It’s not about there being something wrong with you. You just need to take your time, open your eyes and ears, process whatever information you see, and take action based on that. Dating/getting to know someone is a discovery phase. You enter with a reasonable level of trust, you increase it if they do things that show themselves trustworthy, you roll back that trust if they don’t. That is a simple basis for interaction that allows you to live and date with your self-esteem rather than being blind or fearful.
Nat – very helpful advice for all of us dating again, or open to dating again. I feel ready for a relationship after five years (finally!). What’s changed for me is that I’m just happier. I know I’m an intelligent, aware person who can look after myself and has a lot to offer.
If I did find myself with someone not right for me, I’d be able to walk away and would get over it. But more positively, my ability to pick the right guy has increased 100 fold. I don’t find the twits attractive anymore, nor do they find me attractive (they can smell a likely target). It will be fine. And if it’s not I can deal with it.
Talking of baggage though, I don’t know how much of my dubious past I want to reveal. It all seems so long ago it’s hardly relevant other than what I’ve learned from it. Guess I will cross that bridge when I come to it. But I know if someone told me a history like mine my jaw would hit the floor!
Grace, I feel the same way about telling about some of the mistakes that I’ve made in the past to a new partner. I am ashamed that I let a man abuse me for 4 years, me a strong independent woman let it happen and became a stranger to myself! But then again, it has shaped me and changed me, and was a very traumatic time in my life, something I should be able to tell someone and not be afraid they are going to judge me for it. I strive to be myself and love myself enough that I should be able to reveal who I am and not feel scared of it, but proud of it. I am not completely there yet, but this all takes time. The awareness and learning from our past should be what stands out and not the past itself. My new guy has had some drama in his past too. I try not to judge him for it, but it has given me a little heads up on what to be aware of with him. Time reveals.
Grace and Jennynic,
You can reveal your past but not too soon. Wait until you can trust the other person with the information, and share it slowly. In my opinion there’s nothing wrong with keeping some of it to yourself if you’re satisfied that it’s ancient history.
I too struggle with admitting that I have been in abusive relationships that have lasted years. Not just to potential partners, but to anybody.
When I was assaulted by my last husband, I was in such a state of shock that I literally did not move off of the sofa for days unless I went for a wee and I do not even remember doing that.
Eventually, the police had a woman from the domestic violence department come to see me, and she had a bit of advice to give to me that sunk into my head and left me really confused.
She said “Never tell any man that you are involved with, that you have been abused. Once they know that you have been treated a certain way, they will know that they can get away with it too, and will start to test it.”
I think that was tarring everyone with the same brush to a degree, but yet because she was a” professional” and I was operating in a state of shock, It has sort of stayed there in my head.
When a man says to me, “a real man would never put his hands on a woman” , I cringe. Everyone who has ever put there hands on me, has said that at some point.
But, If you are in a genuinely loving and healthy relationship, would that be wrong to keep an experience like that silent?
Then again, think about people who have been to war, and never speak about what they did during that time for the rest of their life….
I wish I could get to a point in life where I did not feel the need to analyze every frickin thought to death.
That would be the single most freeing thing I could do for myself.
I think I learned so early in life,every single action has a reaction. (cause and effect) The problem was, My mother was sick. My actions did have reactions. The reactions my actions prompted from here were NOT NORMAL. But as that was all I had ever known and nothing to compare her with, I came to believe that I was the source of trouble and believed my pain was self inflicted.
I came to believe that I was always wrong, in her way, and bad. No matter what I did, it was wrong, angered her, and my actions would cause me physical pain if there were no wittnesses.
I had no way to implement boundaries, as an innocent helpless child. You expect parents to be teachers of what boundaries are?
If you have never been taught what boundaries are, and even if you had them, were unable to enforce them, If you grew up never being told you looked nice or you were loved, the only reactions you got from your parents was when you did something “bad”, The only time you knew you existed was when you were causing some drama to occur from your parents, You wind up with a very distorted view on what it means to matter to someone.
I guess figuring out why you stay or have stayed much too long in abusive situations,and by that I mean the REAL root of why (there is always the money, job, kids , embarassment, no where to go issues) but there will be something deeper than that is a necessary albeit painful part of healing.
When I started to figure out why I was tolerating such unacceptable behavior from men and living with their left over crumbs as a relationship, it was my biggest step forward. It has taken me 47 years to get here.
I think that If you are with a person that you feel you should keep that information from, you should go with your gut instinct.
It is not something I personally would disclose immediately, but I would feel the need to at some point if the relationship was developing deeply.
Some things you cant hold back even if you want to. Like people who have had STD’s.
You might not want to tell your new lover you have had a nasty love bug in your past, but, If you CARE about that person as much as you want to believe or know they care about you, You owe it.
It is someones health or life at stake.
With a seriously abusive past, If you have not learned all of the trigger points that set off anxiety for you , It might be necessary to have a conversation with a person you are involved with, so they would have some sort of inkling of what they are dealing with if they innocently do something that sets u off.
For example, I had a lot of bad things happen to me from my mother in the kitchen. There fore, I can get very agitated and nervous If I am crowded up in the kitchen. It would help for someone I cared about to know this, rather than me just get freaky deaky on them with no explanation. You might even work out a plan where the gently remind you or have a signal that you recognise that they are not going to harm you because you are in that tight space.
At this point, I look forward to living life with out over analyzing every detail and just loving the good that comes my way and having the good sense to get rid of anybody or anything that threatens my well being. It simply is not worth it.
You wouldnt let termites stay in your house just because they were hungry and the sound of their chewing kept you from feeling so lonesome. Why let a man stay in your life (or keep on living in your mind) when he is eating away at your very soul??
If you believe you can trust a person with the knowlege that your house has termites, that they wont go and kick the rotted beams in, , that in fact, they will help you get rid of the termites and rebuild your foundation, accept it as a gift.
If, later you discover that they fooled you somehow, get rid of them asap.
xxx
SD
Dear Natalie:
Thank you so much. You blow me away time and time again with your wisdom, encouragement, and cutting to the core of matters and never sugar coating your words but still able to communicate with a caring attitude.
I am taking on board everything you responded with, but this really spoke to me:
“I don’t think you’re entirely ready for a relationship but if you’re going to start something, it’s your responsibility to get yourself up to speed and deal with any issues and start implementing what you’ve learned. And remember – he’s not the only friend you can make.”
I agree , I am not 100 percent emotionally available for a committed serious relationship at this moment.Maybe , to some degree,I am EUF.
I fully agree with you, it is my responsibilility to “get up to speed and deal with my issues”. I really do not know any other way to go about it other than just take it one encounter at a time, as you say”implementing what I have learned”
I do have one other male friend that I have made, and a couple of female friends too.
This particular one however, just takes the most interest with me and he has been really kind and we are able to talk easily. He is much more open than I am. I am guarded.
Thank you for this very personal ,encouraging and comforting advice. Thank you for bothering with someone like me, that you do not even know. I just want you to know how much I value what you do for all of us.
Thanks to all the other ladies who gave me their opinions on my situation. I am grateful for the honesty . Between my own thoughts , and the responses here, I feel like it really is ok for me to have the freedom and the right to move forward and not be afraid to listen to my feelings.
You know, being able to trust yourself first, your own judgment and decisions, might be more vital than being able to trust another person. I need to be able to whole heartedly trust myself and take responsibility for my decisions and actions and realise that it is not the end of the world if I make a mistake. It is the end of my spirit when I choose to behave in a helpless manner and do not take responsibility for my own part in undesirable circumstances.
And that is exactly the thing I am afraid of. That is the thing that is holding me back. To “get up to speed”, I am going to have to put my big girl pants on, believe /know that I can make sound decisions, and make any changes necessary on my own behalf for living a life that I respect.
I have learned more from your forum than any other source, even my counciling sessions have not done for me what your forum has.
My birthday is coming up soon and I am going to treat myself to your books. I am really looking forward to that.
Natalie, I am going to consider your advice the best Valentine’s present I have ever received. ???
Thank you
Steel – i don’t think you’re missing anything. I think you’re aware and cautious enough. If this man has treated you with respect then why not find out more about him? he may end up just being a friend, as you say.
I have been with my bloke for just over two months and things are going really well. He and i were both with EU people before getting together and were friends for some time before. One evening, after bumping into each other on a night out, we were ranting to each other about how we both just wanted a straight-forward, healthy relationship with no messing about, ambiguity and drama. Things just developed from there! Looking at our track records, we’d both only recently been with EU people who just baffled the crap out of us both and were both in the same place regarding what we wanted from a relationship. It has been working really well and we’ve been mutually trusting, caring and respectful because of this.
Ask him what he wants from a relationship, that may give you a better idea. Also, as well as looking at the red flags which are there, look at the ones that are missing – he’s not pursuing you like crazy, he’s not future faking, he’s not trying to rush things along, he’s not pushing your boundaries. I don’t think people shoud be penalised for making bad relationship decisions, otherwise we would all be damned to a life of solitude.
I’d like to add that a life of solitude is by no means a bad thing – i was referring to ‘enforced’ solitude and never having the right to be with someone because of past mistakes. Being alone can be a wonderful thing! 🙂
Ditto to the above, thank you Natalie.
Love truly is kind, generous, love does not envy, it does not count wrongs… Our whole lives change when we can really love – all the different types of love rolled into one – eros, philos, storge and agape!!
I wish everyone in their lives to have this at least once. Nat it sounds like your time is now!
Happy Valentine’s Day!
“If you have met someone and you love them and they love you, stop killing it with second guessing and looking for drama – embrace it! Enjoy it! Don’t suck the life out of it by being distrusting and waiting for the bad shoe to drop.”
This is so, so hard for me! My bloke and i are still getting on really well, it’s all really healthy, he mentioned last night that we’re both taking up a lot of each other’s time, but with a ‘what the hell, it’s really cool!’ attitude. I am trying so hard not to sit and wait for the other shoe to drop, to not have the ‘too good to be true’ mentality, to tell myself i do deserve this and that he’s not going to suddenly change his mind and run cold. I try not to get paranoid when he’s having a quiet day (everyone has them!) and think i am at the root of things. SO HARD!!!! I feel like giving myself a slap sometimes. I keep having to rationalise and tell myself not to be so bloody stupid.
We had a great V. evening out with mates, as neither of us believe in ‘enforced romance’ (yuck!). It’s consistent, it’s progressing, he’s reliable and so sweet. I am still a bit of a lunatic – so true what Nat says about ‘safe rejection’, vulnerability is hard. I am trying to embrace, enjoy, go with the flow. I just have to keep bashing those niggling little voices, like that fairground game where you bash the little moles that pop up, with a massive mallet. 🙂
Minky, I’m in the same boat as you. I have been dating a guy recently who I like and he likes me. We spend a lot of time together, he is nice, sweet and consistent. I find myself over thinking and feeling distrustful, for no solid reasons. Trouble is, I felt good about the ex AC in the beginning and was a little blind to the red flags. I didn’t trust my gut with him and it got me four years of misery. Now I am on edge and just waiting for the red flags to appear with this new guy. I too have had to “check” myself and back up my thoughts a little and give him the benefit of the doubt rather than let my fear take over. This is all new territory for me, trusting again after the cheating, lying AC. It IS hard. I am much more aware of things this time around, thanks to this site, and have more faith in myself. I also struggle a little with the lack of passion drama. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t want any drama in this relationship but realize now how much a part it played in my last one with the AC and how I had become accustomed to it. The lack of drama almost feels like “lack of feeling”. That being said, if any drama starts happening I am out the door without wasting any time because now I know better. V Day was fine. New guy took me to dinner and we had a nice time but I felt kind of numb to the idea of Valentines Day this year, kinda like I didn’t even care about it. No expectations at all, which was a relief actually. It is just another day after all. If someone cares about you and you them, you find small ways to show them “every” day, without the pressure of a holiday.
Minky,
We can all fall victim to negative thinking, it is human nature. However we can choose to change our thoughts. Just the fact that you are aware of your thoughts, is the first step.
Especially if I wake up cranky, I will put on an audio that inspires me or worship music. On a very strict day I will also follow up with mind movies, even one of my own, plus some tapping!
There are ways to change our thoughts and just as we all prefer different foods, we all prefer different routines…
I wish today for you to find yours.
Thanks ladies! Yes i do need to check my thoughts, but i guess the fact that i am aware of myself is a good sign. I just hate feeling anxious – feels like drama to me and i hate drama. There is no reason for it of course, he’s done nothing to trigger these thoughts, it’s just my own lunacy and self-esteem issues.
If i voiced my insecurities to him he’d think i was weird! I am looking out for red flags, but so far there haven’t been any. I would like to get to a stage where i am aware, without being paranoid! I need to stop stressing myself out.
Those voices aren’t going to go away, they want to be heard, they are like little lost children, and bopping and bashing them is only going to hurt you and drive you crazy, because it shows you are bopping and bashing yourself in your own mind. What I am finding is working miracles for me, as an act of self-love, is to listen to those voices exactly like I would little children…I hear you’re scared! I hear that! I hear you’re hurting! I hear you don’t trust him, it’s okay to be scared, it’s okay to hurt, it’s okay to not trust….it’s creating a good relationship with what some people would call the ‘wounded inner child’. It is SO much kinder, and I am finding myself to be a much kinder, gentler human being. Although…some people I have talked to recently FREAKED OUT that I am not being mean to myself, it violates a very deep cultural conditioning, a holy sacred cow of belief 😀
That’s amazing, Sunshine! I never even thought of that. It’s funny because when i was dealing with issues from my childhood, that’s how i dealt with it – like talking to a child. Brilliant, i will try that, thanks! 🙂
Thank You! I came to the same realization just days ago that I never experienced real love until now. Your post was like music to my ears that I really am “getting it” . Its been 8 months of being truly cared for, respected, and loved and I have just been waiting for it all to turn sour. It’s time for me to let my guard down now, and trust, and enjoy what I have always wanted. I tell so many women about your site, it has been such a valuable tool in helping me get to here!
These posts give me hope because I see the fluidity and calmness that can exist in relationships. I wonder what it would be like to just be able to breathe and not be on the edge of my seat wondering what is going to happen next.
I do have have say, I’m not a big fan of Valentines Day, simply because it seems like a designated day for expressing what should be expressed steadily throughout a relationship and I see a lot of women feel totally pressured by it because they are single..It’s just another day to be single on Valentines Day as it is to not be your birthday and it be someone else’s.
The self love that Natalie describes is the mission I am on. I feel surges of it and it really helps me isolate the feelings I had for him to the ones I had for myself.. that seemingly disappeared all this time.
And to all those jerks who are calling their exes on Valentines Day or any other day to report the status of their new relationships, shame on you!! Some men have zero class. You can’t go back and get validation from someone you treated like crap… well I guess you can but it is seriously tacky.What do you want from her? A thumbs up that you planted a ring on someone else’s finger? It’s like prancing your new poodle in front of the pooch you sent to the SPCA. Leave it so the they can heal and be loved by someone else.. no return to burn please..
I’ve decided to do a clean sweep this year on all my dysfunctional relationships no matter what the dynamic. If they don’t feel right, I can’t participate. It will eliminate some people but if I don’t, I’ll never be open and healthy to what is right for me.
Wow. This was awesome. I completely agree.
Right on! And so true about the new poodle 🙂 I had one guy do that to me way back and I wouldn’t put it past the ex-AC to do the same :/
” It’s like prancing your new poodle in front of the pooch you sent to the ASPCA.”
Love this!!!! 🙂
Seriously, what is up with these AC’s that want to tell you how much they have “improved” themselves now that they are with someone new, especially when they were a total mess, and treated you like crap?
Am I supposed to believe he has magically morphed into prince charming now that he has someone new? Sorry, but true and lasting change doesn’t happen overnight.
In my opinion, it only makes them look worse. Before, I could almost feel sorry for him, because he was such a mess. I could almost believe he coudn’t help how badly he treated me, because people who are hurting will hurt others. But no, if he is gonna come along and brag about what a wonderful guy he is NOW, then all I can think is that he COULD help himself, therefore his crap treatment was on purpose!!
One more thing, he didn’t care about me enough to treat me decently, he tossed me aside, so why does he even bother to tell me now how he’s changed? Why does he even care what I think? Or is this another sick, twisted game they play?
Either way, he is either utterly clueless and completely unaware of my feelings, or he knows exactly what he’s doing and he’s utterly cruel.
Either way, he is HER problem now!!!
“I’m so miserable without him, it’s almost like he’s still here.”
“I’ve seen countless readers not only give up their friends and interests, but give up *themselves* for the sake of a relationship.”
So true. I find self-care often goes out the window when I’m around people I care about. Not sure why that is but it’s a pattern. Small things such as, coffee doesn’t agree with me but it’s being served after lunch, everyone else is having it, so sheep here goes ahead and has it too. In relationships, I’m inclined to go along with what the other person wants rather than step back and ask if it’s what I want too.
It probably goes back to having a controlling parent, where what one wanted didn’t count. On some level I know that, but don’t know how to get past it. Avoidance works but I want to engage without hurting myself.
@Natalie: i love your tree of love….. i just spotted it now..:-)
It is very apt for Valentine’s and the tree of love is even more apt for ourselves.. We must strive to grow in love of ourselves and learn to nurture and care for our spirit and soul and always surround us with people who have our best interests at heart.
I love trees because I see them as being solid, grounded, earthy and immovable.
just a thought on this lovely spring day!
Natalie, thanks again for everything you have done for me through your blogs, your book, the support on facebook and your words to me. xoxo
You’re very welcome! I’m investigating the possibility of speaking in Ireland soon and will let you know when I have it all sorted. Glad you’re feeling better (((hugs)))
that would be fantastic, we’ll have that cup of tea….!
Hi Natalie,
I have to tell you again, it is not a matter of either/or. Some of us have a very balanced idea of what we need: we want someone to whom we are attracted, who is kind, decent, and fun, and with whom we are compatible.
It is not always a matter that we are attracted to EUs/assclowns.
I think we deserve a reasonable fascimile of a healthy medium.
Not all of us crave drama, but at the very least, we don’t want to feel we are on a date with our brother!
Margaret, I’m sorry you’ve lost me. Name of the site is Baggage Reclaim. Purpose, offloading baggage and rediscovering yourself which includes breaking patterns, working out your beliefs and values, and shedding any habits that get in the way of forging a healthier relationship where you can date with self-esteem. At no point have I said either/or. What I have said is make sure that what you perceive passion etc to be is exactly that, not something unhealthy.
My partner is attractive, fun, kind, lots of passion, we have shared values, some shared interests, he treats me with love, care, trust, and respect as I do him, he’s a person of integrity, and basically what we have stretches far beyond him being fun, kind, and attractive *and* he’s not emotionally unavailable.
I have no issue with you criticising me/disagreeing (Loved the “I have to tell you again”) but what I do take issue with is twisting what I’ve said into something else.
Another thing I have repeatedly said on this blog is if how you think and what you do is working for you and generates the relationship you want, knock yourself out. You being as balanced as you say you are, that’s great.
steel
i hear you, it’s taken me over 40 years to come to terms with how my mother treated us. my counsellor said the effect would probablyalways be there and that’s okay with me, i can give up trying to root it out. that could take forever – which none of us have – and it’s a waste of time. i’m basically happy now and that’s what counts.
for me, the effect is somewhat different, i don’t have trigger points as such but an ability to disassociate from uncomfortable situations. It’s as if they aren’t happening. im also extremely self-sufficient having learned from a very early age that i had no one to depend on. now that i’m no longer looking to men for validation, approval etc im somewhat at a loss as to what a relationship is for. at a fairly fundamental level i don’t feel that i need one. still, i’m happy enough and am looking forward to finding out what the future holds.
i understand your termite analogy but i think you are stronger than that. you’re not a rickety house that can be kicked down, you survived a traumatic experience and are still a decent compassionate person who is looking to love and be loved. that makes you kind of amazing.
Thank you, this is great to read. I just discovered your blog today, have laughed and nearly cried – reading its like a documentary of my dating life the last few years! finally ended with my EUM on Valentine’s Day so this post is especially sweet, will be thinking good thoughts about love and especially self-love. xo this has helped me so much today 🙂
Just wanted to say that I liked the original post. I am a man whose wife is having an affair with a (I believe) single man. I just wonder how much of all of this applies to her as the Betraying Spouse, him as the OM, etc. Much of what you have had to say about all of this seems, at least to me, to apply to their situation. To those in any role of an affair, please know there are a lot of on-line resources to can look at, and a number of books. Of course, one has to be open enough to hear/read things that may not make you happy.
To all mired in the mess of an affair, I wish you well.