One challenge that friendship can sometimes pose is this desire, whether it’s on our part or on the part of our friend(s), that nothing changes or that we maintain the friendship in an orderly fashion. There are often roles within friendships, particularly imbalanced ones where one party may be more of a Florence Nightingale or the one who never has their stuff together and juggles various dramas, or the one who is super responsible and never appears to put a foot wrong.
There can be recurring ‘go-to’ topics. Like the ex who got away or family dramas or reminiscing about the good ‘ole days or whatever. There can be underlying predictions about who will settle down first or whose life will be plain sailing. Then, when real life messes with the running order, the person who always thought that they would do what we’re doing (or vice versa) can feel very confused, wounded, and, yes, even envious and resentful.
We often don’t want the friendship to evolve because we are resisting change (or the past affects us enough that it distorts our present and our perception of our future). If things stay the same, if the routine of the friendship doesn’t change, then we can remain in our comfort zone. We feel as if it’s a level playing field.
If we accept the change but judge ourselves unfairly, we see that change as a reflection of our ‘failure’ and/or as rejection. We feel as if we have time to play with. When our friends appear to be changing and evolving, we may put pressure on ourselves. It can trigger an unease that subtly plays its way out in the dynamic.
When various friends began settling down, I would never have admitted it back then, but I subtly changed my friendship habits. It was so subtle that I didn’t notice it until I was in a place where I was ready to listen to myself. It was easy for me to do a Bridget Jones and call some of them Smug Marrieds, but most weren’t.
The truth is, I subconsciously distanced myself partly because I was living the Fallback Girl life and especially because I felt that seeing a guy with a girlfriend while your friends are settling down didn’t really jive. So I judged myself and aligned myself with my single pals or the ones who had relationship woes. I kept it hidden and my inner turmoil, as well as the secrecy, threw up an invisible barrier. Ironically, these were some of my most understanding friends in the end.
We’re not always ‘there’ even if we tell ourselves that we are (or we are but we’re doing that people pleasing thing where we accrue debt with our ‘good deeds’ and then feel resentful about not getting payback). And we definitely don’t always agree with everything our friends say and do (and nor do we have to).
One thing that I’ve gradually lost my attachment to is how I think things ‘should’ go or how I think people (incl. friends) ‘should’ behave and it’s for one simple reason: knowing my own boundaries, standards, and values is great, and it teaches me about where I’m in alignment. On the other hand, painting a picture in my mind of what people in my circle ‘must’ be and do just leads to an Imagination Hangover.
It doesn’t mean that I have friendships without expectations; it means that I have friendships without an excessive amount of attachment to expectations and enjoy them for what they are in reality.
Granted, there are parallels and clearly there commonalities within groups of friends, but all our friendships are unique and it’s vital to honour the separateness of both the individual friendships and of each other. I’m not friends with my pals because we’re the same; it’s because we each have various mutual like and affection. The friendships have a basis of love, care, trust, and respect along with common core values. And after that, the rest unfolds on a friendship by friendship basis.
Back in the day when my friendships tended to revolve around us living in each other’s pockets, we had some great times. However, with my rocky sense of self and turbulent relationships, it was sometimes difficult to discern where I ended and others began, plus I felt excessively emotionally reliant at times because external esteem was my self-esteem. I was very prone to taking things personally or worrying if we weren’t in touch. I wanted things to be a certain way because when they weren’t, I’d feel abandoned.
Some friends I speak with regularly and others, occasionally. I don’t assume anything bad if we’re not in touch. With most, when we see or speak, it’s as if no time has passed, but at the same time, we’re in the now.
As our lives evolve, our friendships do too and that means adjusting to new rhythms, which isn’t always easy. I’ve found some shifts in my own challenging and saddening at times, but with the acceptance, we’ve either reestablished the friendship with the adjusted rhythm or life in its funny ‘ole way has opened up new friendships once I’ve been more receptive to it.
We could have an equally good friendship with a friend we speak with a few times a year as we could with somebody we speak with frequently. Trying to make all our friendships the same makes it too much about us. It can cause emotional distancing because trying to control the uncontrollable with friendships limits vulnerability.
While we can’t keep up our friendships to the same intensity we might have done when we were free from as many ties, what can make a huge difference is not vanishing each time we’re in a relationship. When we check out, it gets tougher to slot back in, especially if we hope to pick up from where things left off.
We need our friendships, not to ‘fall back’ on when things get rough or as a filler between relationships but as a necessary part of our journey. When we are very romantically focused or too in our own heads, that lack of emotional closeness can evolve into loneliness or being reliant on partners for our self-esteem. We may veer between trying to fill voids with romantic partners and then, when that doesn’t work, trying the same with our friendships.
They don’t need to be perfect or remain static. We can appreciate friendships for what they’ve been now and in the past.
Friendship and life itself has an ebb and flow. It’s important to note that if an unhealthy friendship has run its course, that’s a good thing. We grow and we evolve, and sometimes we don’t take everyone who started with or joined us on the journey along for the rest of the ride. Maybe they were only supposed to be around for part of the story. Perjaps they’ll show up in other chapters. New people can join too.
If you’ve struggled with friendships changing, have some compassion for the you that you believe got lost with these friendships. Also, don’t assume the worst about yourself (or your friends). Sometimes, when we’ve been through a few things, it’s easy to come up with a story about these changes that fits a negative narrative.
You’re still here. Take care of you. Don’t be afraid to branch out. Don’t be afraid to re-establish the friendship from a new spirit of acceptance and mutuality.
Your thoughts?
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As I have worked to improve my self esteem, a very important part of it has been to assess my friendships and relatives, and throw out the ones who regularly treated me like they thought they were better than me, or that I was crazy because I had different values, etc.
Throwing out the assclowns has been like having a bunch of rusted out jalopies towed out of my driveway, which has made room for lots of better rides, in perfect working condition.
I can easily entertain myself, so I don’t get lonely because I have fewer friends. Now I have a few great new friends, some fine renewed friendships and nobody around who raises my hackles.
Oh, and my bitchy, passive aggressive sister got the boot as well.
I feel like I’m coming to a new set of friendships after leaving quite a few behind. Being an EUM addict means you can’t stay friends with other EUM addicts, like any other addiction. It’s encouraging, intimidating, exciting, lonely, scary, and fun to establish new friendships with people who have healthier outlooks. It’s also nice to see old friendships get richer by growing up and becoming more relatable to people my age.
I left my hometown at an early age, and have traveled ALot and lived in many places. Some of my friendships ended because I wasn’t geographically there, But I cherish and learned from those friendships. Surprisingly, I have a handful of special connections and some that go back to kindergarden. Texting and emails make things easier now for my long-distance friendships.
In making new friends, I now have the understanding that everyone is not similar to me. There are many unbalanced and mental and messed up people. I do not stay in new friendships if I dislike the person or their habits. (was starting new friendship and the gal talked non-stop. I was exhausted after being with her for a few hours – finally cut that one loose).
And I don’t seek out new friends like I did maybe 10 years ago, in part, I’m enjoying the peace that I now have from being over the EUM! I might make some new friends this spring and summer…Maybe!
Lol Karen…Rusted out jalopies. Yep. Agree.
Nice article. 1 year ago I moved to another country and still find difficult to make new friends, maybe the reason is partly that dealing with displacement, logistics, work and study plus a break up with emotionally abusive assclown after 10 years and NC, left me little spare energy to connect with others. Maybe it’s because I am still sorting out my integrity after the crap I put up with. The thing is I feel really lonely and I keep thinking back to the friends in my country, that beautiful feeling of having people that you like in your everyday life. I miss them so much and with some of them who are mutual friend with Assclown ex, I tend to assume I’m going to lose them cause I am “out of sight” like I lost him – truth is they’ve been extremely supportive with me, but it’s like I am projecting the rejection I’ve experienced from him onto everyone else (I keep this feelings for myself though). I know that it’s partly only my problem but things with my old friends ARE going to change -because of the break up and because I’m abroad-, I just can’t let go of things because I feel like I am neither here or there, and the more I feel like this, the less I manage to make new friends here, it’s kind of a loop. But you are right, sometimes we assume the worst when we’re just being hard on ourselves. Thanks for you blog, it’s a useful reading during my solitary journey. Oh, And your book on NC was crucial, it spared me few more years of BS, I am very grateful for that.
Thanks! Needed to hear that one.
As a child I grew up having self esteem issues based on being rejected by the kids at school. Once I was in my teens I could make friends and was so excited that I used my friendships as validations of myself. That strong pain from my younger years changed me and made me see my relationships (romantic or otherwise) as status symbols. To this day, I find myself taking a bit too much pride in moments when I feel popular.
Now I’m in my late 20’s and I’ve seen many close friendships come and go. Sometimes I have wondered how I go from having friends so close that they’re practically family to never seeing them again. Some friends are toxic and multiple times I’ve been the one to wean myself off of what was so comfortable, knowing I couldn’t deal with their issues anymore.
I always think I’m finally on the right path, but hopefully this time it’s true. You don’t hear much about HOW to self validate, just that you should. After all I’ve been through I respect myself for the strength and courage I’ve had even when everything is against me. I’m loving myself for doing what’s right for me, even when it’s not easy. I’m glad to be doing what makes me happy, even though I wonder if it’s enough. Somewhere in all of this I know my hardships will make me really think my life through and not just blindly do what I think society expects of me. A struggle serves a better purpose if it brings you to re-evaluate things.
My bestie left on Sunday to start a new life in the USA with her hubby and unborn son, so I’m feeling a little bereft right now at the departure of one of my dearest, closest friends (I didn’t have that many to start with).
I’ve been really struggling to adapt to the changes that have been happening with my friendships in the last 5 years or so. Seeing all my friends settle down and start families whilst I was still desperately trying to meet one decent guy and hold down a relationship for longer than 3 months – has caused me to feel inadequate, like I’m a massive failure.
True to Natalie’s words, I found myself withdrawing from my bestie when she found love, by not contacting her as often as I used to because I was consumed with envy and didn’t want to spoil her moment. We used to have the same piss poor luck when it came to guys, but now it seemed like everything fell into place for her overnight (marriage, baby, new life in the US, happiness), and I was still stuck in the same dating revolving door. I’m not proud of my behaviour then, but I wasn’t in a good enough place where I could be genuinely happy for her – especially as she would talk about him all the time.
I still feel pangs of jealousy and sometimes wonder if I’ll ever get my happy ending, but I’m in such a positive place right now that I can overcome these with a little internal pep talk, and more importantly I can share her joy with her – and be part of all the exciting new things that are happening to her.
Lupie, in the past years, my group of friends and acquaintances was constituted mostly by people 10 years older than me, and I’ve seen them getting together, having kids,etc. Some of them are quite happy families, some others got divource, had affairs, messed it up and found themeselves alone in their late 30ies with kids, having to start all over again. I wish the best for your friends, but the point is: when we’re late on schedule with people of the same age, it might feel like a failure, but if you hang out with older people you can see in fast forward that some of them with fail, too, while some other people who seem “failures” might succeed eventually if they are true to themselves. I hate being single at 30 for the first time in my life, after having devolved my 20ies to an assclown, but what about my friends who got divorced at 35? Or the ones who found true love at 38? In the end, comparing ourselves to others is self-beating…
In my younger days, many of my girlfriends got married and babies, but I never envied their relationships or felt the need to “one up” them because I saw the qualities of those relationships and never wanted that for myself.
It actually change the dynamic of our relationship. I found when I started to grow and change after my unpredictable relationship lifestyle, those friends represented many of the things I didn’t want in my life anymore. One girlfriend lied too much, one gf married my ex-boyfriend and the other just didn’t grow up. What I noticed is that many of my “old friends” just didn’t share the same values I did, so like the EUM’s we were on borrowed time anyway.
I’ve never been the type of person that felt the need to have a lot of friends. Too many friends equal unwanted drama. Besides having romantic relationship drama was bad enough, I didn’t need girlfriend drama added on with it all.
What about friends who we do grow apart from, but who won’t let go of the dying friendship? I have a friend like this and the friendship has become quite toxic, mainly to do with a competitive and condescending attitude on her part in recent years. I don’t want to sit and have a ‘break up’ talk with her, since the one time I brought up any concern to her she switched all blame onto me, making herself a victim. I’ve tried distancing and just being less enthusiastic when seeing her, but she won’t let go. I have come quite far in my personal development and I’m so happy with the friendships I have now, but I really do feel like this one has run its course.
What do you do when it’s your husband you’ve grown and evolved away from? We were different when we met – he’s military and I’m creative. I really had no idea what I was letting myself in for, that way of life was so totally foreign to me that I had no idea. But I played along because I loved him and he’s a good man with good values. Over the years it became harder and harder for me to live that life and he was understanding and supportive, I lived off base and he commuted to see me. The last decade however, once the kids came, I moved back on base and we lived abroad in a developing country where we lived life his way, not because he made me, but because those were the circumstances.
Over 20 years later now I think we’ve hardened into our true selves. He’s a routine, rules and regulations guy and I’ve become more bohemian. Now that we’re civilians, I watch him desperately trying to hang on to the way things were, quite literally confused as to why things are not the way they used to be. As he says, he hasn’t changed and in an accusatory tone says that I have. And it’s true. I feel liberated from the constraints of being a military wife, I’m for the first time in ages and ages really breathing.
What do you do when you evolve on a separate path to your partner and they’re intolerant of your journey?
@ Larissa
I feel you need an agreement of how to me on a similar path and goal in a marriage. If he (or you) won’t go there then the marriage isn’t being put first. You need to find a way for you both to coexist and more ahead using your unique strengths.
I think there are still ways to live with both but you’re going to have to be creative. For example I know someone who is former military who loves the rules too. He is going into the police academy to get a similar way of life outside of the military. You could have your creative outlet outside of him. But you would both need to able to agree with a certain amount of space to pursue your goals, be in a location that makes both possible, etc.
Larissa,
Based on what you are saying, you seem like you where pretending to be something you weren’t. In his defense, this is what he grew accustomed to. This was your behavior so he probably assumed this was who you were. I don’t think he is intolerate to your journey anymore than you are intolerate to his rigid routine! You can’t expect him to just accept that you are a free spirit and he is suppose to go along with it because its makes you happy. He also needs to be happy!
I suspect that you needed the structure that he provided and he probably needs the free spirit energy you have. But you both have to find a happy medium. He will never be 100% free spirit anymore than you will be 100% strucutured so either you both will have to compromise or your marriage will not last.
I was thinking of this recently. I had been seeing an EUM. He was above many of the ones we talk about on here in that he didn’t disappear, called every day, etc. But in the end I know he is unavailable and needed to end it for me. He lost a family member when young and uses that as an excuse to keep up emotional walls.
I went NC initially but live in close proximity and will run into each other for now and I have been questioning what type of relationship, if any, I want with this EUM once I feel more indifferent.
He has been a great friend in many ways, has helped me out of a lot, and is nice to just talk to. He even took time off work to help me move and got my child supplies when she was sick and I couldn’t get to the store. SO he has definitely been more of a friend than most EUMs I’ve experienced who dip in and out. I realize that he’s just limited in his emotional offerings and that I want more.
But the thing that just bothers me – he can’t admit to anything around his EUM-ness and it just feels like manipulation. It’s not that I was telling him about himself or trying to get him back. But I had tried to end it 6 months earlier citing the relationship wasn’t enough for me, some of the things I needed (including telling me he loved me), and that I didn’t believe in forcing these things from him but that what I have isn’t enough for me. He told me he would ‘work on it’. I had been living with the guy for ore than a year so it’s totally appropriate to be in live by that point. When I ended it for good 6 months later I got a few excuses. First excuse was that the little verbal niceness he gave me (which wasn’t even in our primary language) I didn’t respond to well enough so he stopped. (I simply complained it was silly that this was the only thing we said to each other in the second language and didn’t feel natural.) Then when I reminded him he had had 6 months to work on it he tried to tell me he had been working on it (but offered no examples of actions taken) and that he was ABOUT to but that I ended things before he could.
The other areas of the friendship are good and I am finally feeling I am at the point I can interact with him without thinking of a romantic future with him and see him as limited in a romantic sense. But I don’t know how I feel about the rest of this. Is he just that blind and in denial? Is this an attempt to consciously manipulate me? I know we can both have out own truths but I don’t buy his version of events for a minute – I choose my truth based on his actions.
He has asked for friendship when I’m ready and says will respect my wishes to whatever I decide. I’m just questioning the trust aspect. While he has really been there for me in so many ways, can I trust him as a friend if he has twisted things so much in his head. Or should I cut him loose. Yet I have no one else friend-wise to puts in even 50% of what he does.
He doesn’t sound like a bad guy, just someone who is, like you said, limited in what he can give you. Some women would be fine with a guy who fixed things, helped out, etc, but didn’t say I love you. I tend to think that women put too much store in the words and not enough in actions. But it’s understandable that you’d want a guy who can express his feelings occasionally. It’s only until the last few decades that this became something women expected from men! I’m not sure I would give up on him, but it depends how long you’ve been trying, how much you love him, how much else the relationship gives you, how happy/unhappy his EUM-ness is for you, etc. Also, I would add to that how old you are and where you live. If you’re young and live somewhere with lots of available men, you’ll probably find someone who can be more expressive. But if you’re older and don’t, then your odds have decreased and it might be worth it to work with what you’ve got. Nothing wrong with being single either though! good luck!
@Diane
I’m early 30s and in a major city. The guy is 15 years older. I’ve known him for 4 years. Initially sort of casual and ambiguous until I dated another guy and it ended. I don’t need a guy to tell me things all the time (I’m not terrible verbally expressive either) just once I a while. This EUM has never told ANY woman he has loved her.
While he does have a lot of good points, in true EUM-ness he does play hot and cold to keep the relationship where he wants it. He does it while physically there but ignoring me/watching TV in another room. He has picked fights. Stuff like that which I either ignore and go out and do my own thing or call him out on it. When I bring things up I want changed he spins things around, deflects blame, stonewalls, etc. he won’t apologize, help problem solve, etc. Last 2 times I had a cold, he was in his withdrawal stage and ignored me saying he didn’t want to get sick. Even after the first time saying that wasn’t acceptable and as a Bf he should at least help and ask if I need something, make a cup of tea, etc. Instead he watched TV. He was in my house and refused to offer help to me. Twice.
My list of demands when I attempted to break up with him the first time but let him ‘try’ was pretty basic:
1. He needed to say nice things to me every one in a while. Preferably I love you but I wasn’t going to force that.
2. He needed not to be so withdrawn – especially to my child who was starting to not want him around due to his cold behavior.
3. He needed to initiate or discuss when I initiate discussions about the future – not stonewall them. This far in a relationship I have every right to know we were on the same page.
In the 6 months I gave him before I broke it off for good, I partially did 2 (relationship is better with my child), and did 1 once by looking it up in a foreign language. He CAN’T tell me something nice in OUR common language.
Even with all the good points, he is still EUM and I don’t want to deal with the negatives that come with it. I feel I can deal with a friendship because I can stay more detached to the outcome and he has great friend qualities – he just won’t let people close which is just too painful to deal with when you want to open your heart to him and he can only dip in a toe.
To clarify – he was at my house living there while I was sick and refused to help. I would have understood if he has to get to work or something but in these occasions he didn’t – he was watching TV.
Allison.I seems to me you’re a bit unreasonable. The things that you want him to change are qualities that make him who he is. Men, generally, are not big on saying “I love you”. We women want to hear that and other romantic phrases, but I think most men SHOW you more how they fee as validation. that he cares deeply about you. Did you two have a commitment to be exclusive? You’ve got the idea of him being EUM so deeply implanted in your mind and that is all you seem to see where he is concerned. You say he helps you out, doing things for you. Is he affectionate? Does he please you sexually? If the answers are “No”, you really need to move on. Every individual of the opposite sex is not going to be suitable for a boyfriend. He doesn’t seem to be meeting your needs. It’s not fair to him, either, to expect him to be someone who he is not. I think you need to look at a man for WHO HE IS, good qualities as well as bad. There’s no perfect man who is going to be everything you want. Just as you’re not going to be perfect for your man of choice, either. If he is unwilling to sit down with you in order to clear the air and work on the issues (not just saying he is doing so)there’s nothing else you can do. He may not be ultra thoughtful, but he doesn’t sound like an AC. Have “The Talk”, but be open to his feelings, not just your own. It takes two to CO-PILOT a rship. If that can’t happen, forget it.
@ Serene
Thanks for your advice. Yes, I agree and do not think he is an AC. Like any person he has both good and bad points. He did warn me early on he doesn’t let people in after losing a family member as a teen. But overall he has been a good influence in my life in certain ways.
He has done things both ways to show he both cares and doesn’t care. It basically depends on whether he is in hot or cold mode. He goes back and forth between very engaged and very withdrawn.
That is why I initially broke it off with him. I believe change has to be internally motivated; it’s not something I can force. I told him I need things I don’t get from him. He tells me he can/will do it but the actions don’t match up. I accept these things are who he is. He asked me what and I told him what I felt was lacking. He said the wanted to do that and created the initial expectation. When nothing changed and we went back into old habits despite bringing it up over and over again I figured nothing was changing and it’s time to move on.
The question both of us have had is what will the rules be going forward? Obviously our engagement must change but we both don’t want to cut each other out completely as we do care. But need to do it in a way we can get some space for awhile too.
Allison. Putting aside the EUM issue. Does his depth of caring match yours? In most rships one party often has deeper feelings than the other. It’s always better when the man is deeper in love. You gave more examples of where he is lacking, but very little about the qualities that keep you interested in being in love WITH HIM. Why don’t you really examine the reasons why you broke up with him in the first place? You indicate that he hasn’t changed adequately for you. So why are you still trying to make a go of it? What is it about him that encourages your passion? Or are you making it all up in your head? You are still a young woman so certainly you’re not feeling he is your last chance to have a man. If you feel that he sincerely cares about you then I wouldn’t kick him to the curb. However, being exclusive is not a good idea. You’ve known each other for 4 years and he is 15 years your senior. He can blow the years away if he wants. You could be spending another 4 years waiting on him to be the man you want and need. You should date other men. But don’t do it with the intention of forcing his hand (forcing him to claim you). Do it because your life must go on whether he is in it or not. It’s just not emotionally healthy for you to keep all your eggs in one basket especially when he’s not making any moves to cement a future with you. I don’t know if you should TELL HIM you’re going to date others. Only you know if you should or not. But if you don’t, you need not feel that you are going behind his back. You’re just living your life which cannot depend solely on him or any other man. Sometimes, older men especially, are reluctant to buy the cow if they can get the milk for free. BTW, has he ever been married? If not, your chances of roping him in are even more bleak. Don’t allow him to gobble up what could be the best years of your life. Go out with your friends, date other men. Enjoy yourself.
Lastly, don’t bring any new guy home for the time being because it’ll confuse your daughter.
Allison, he’s in his mid-40s, he is definitely not going to change. This is who he is. It sounds like you’re already really frustrated with who he is. I’d start to either learn to accept who he is fully, and commit to that, or leave. You’re young, there are plenty of guys out there at your age!
Dear Allison,
I am reading your (legitimate) list of ‘wishes’, and I am thinking: is it really necessary to spell this out to the person you have (had) a romantic relationship with?
What’s romantic in that? You even resort to the word ‘demand’ to express yourself, which is worrying to me.
The bottom line is: this guy doesn’t love you, never has and in all likelihood never will. Who else with a bit of heart and involvement would be so passive as to say ‘I will respect your wishes whatever you decide’?
I really strongly suggest that you go total NC and don’t spend one more second of your time or an ounce of your energy on this person. He will drain you, slowly, until you have nothing left and decent people will pass you by because your focus is on him.
The degree of his passiveness is an indication of his parassitism. Careful there, it is difficult to pinpoint what’s wrong when it is so subtle.
Please do yourself a favour and cut him out completely. You don’t want him as a friend either, what does it mean “I can *deal* with his friendship”/”I can stay detached”?? What is this, an unwanted job? How much are you going to pay for the crumbs he is throwing you?
I know this might sound harsh but I can assure you that it is not; been there, done that.
Also, your child is the best judge if you feel lost, believe him/her.
Take care, V.
What about friends who remain friends with your abusive ex? Is it out of line for me to want my friends to NOT remain friends with an ex who physically and verbally abused me? Is this how I learn that my friendship isn’t healthy?
This is a sensitive topic.
I’d say that context is the only thing that can help you discriminate good from bad here. As a general rule, I wouldn’t like my friends to stay friends with him. But some friends are just mutual which means they are attached and have history with both of you. I’d say if they support you, respect you and help you to keep NC, they’re good friends despite the fact that they might take him as he is as friend while disliking and criticizing the way he behaved with you. If they are just a fanclub of him,or mainly just his friends, just cut them off, there’s no point in keeping them in your life.
I guess that if he was physically abusive and mutual friends know, if they are good friends they would tell him to seriously sort out his problems. They would not deny, avoid or minimize.
Curious, I would also suggest stepping back from these friends for a while. Over time, you will find new friends or reconnect with old ones that dont trigger memories of him. Over time some of those mutual friends will lose touch with him.
So the real question is how they make you feel; if they are good to you, then their friendship with him is not something you can concern yourself with. If they are good to you and you still feel bad, then just reduce contact – go to every 3rd event. You dont need to make any final judgments about the quality of these friends, just that for now you need your distance from them.
[if the ex is a manipulative person, and abusers often are, then he is manipulating those friends too. Over time some of them will see him for what he is. Also, you went through a terrible relationship, you need to feel validated and accepted about that experience; not everyone knows your story and can provide you that acceptance. This is not their fault. So its better to cut contact with the people that will make you feel so insecure, its not worth it]
Thanks Suki, your comment was actually really useful for me too. I am struggling with precisely this issue.
I have been in a situation that I’m sure would have escalated into physically abusive at some point. My ex was very controlling and emotionally abusive. He was very good at isolating me from friends. When I tried to get back in touch with them, all of my friends dumped my ex.
I am in a group where a lot of us were in DV situations. Mot of us are far removed now but many of us still have an ex who is trying to control us or use us as narc supply – they file court cases of trivial stuff, use the kids, etc. Most have had to drop their friends that chose the ex or at the very least put in a lot of distance in those friendships.
Think of it this way, if you are trying to start fresh with someone who was so controlling (and control is a lot of the abuse dynamic) then why do you want to give these people anything that can be used against you if it got back to your ex?
I get it sucks… I had to leave with NO ONE. I was able to rekindle one of my friendships from before him. It’s hard to cut off support when you really feel you need it. But you need to take an objective long-term view. Is this the type of friendship you want?
I feel like I’ve grown so much since I discovered this website back in October. I particularly enjoyed reading the last three articles, they have been very therapeutic. I feel empower and calm in finding the person I tried so hard to bury. I used to feel misplaced, like I didn’t belong anywhere, no more so. Some days are hard because I had to get rid of a few unhealthy relationships and bad habits, and I am still working on strengthening the boundaries I set up for myself. I am thankful for everyone that have came in and out of my life, even the ones that were unkind. My experience with them has forced me to acknowledge the soul in me, I had to learn the hard way.
I had a powerful experience a couple of weeks ago after reading an article that NML posted. I don’t want to go into the details, but it forced me to let go of all hurt feelings and to forgive myself. In doing so, I feel light and free. I no longer beat myself up over failed relationships, I may be disappointed at times, but that is about it. I cherish my relationship with the people that are dear to me, I accept them for they are. I am more consistent in my actions, and I don’t expect anything from anyone that I can’t do for myself.
Allison. There’s no need to get overly dramatic regarding him as a “parasite” and going NC because he’s a SOB. Just take so much focus off of him. Go out with other people, date other men. If there aren’t many men, you can still find ways to enjoy yourself and pamper yourself. Being vindictive is not the answer and a parasite is not his modus operandi from what you have described. Why would you seek to make an enemy? Since he is contributing little to the rship it will probably dwindle away anyway because you’re living your life without him and no longer beating a dead horse. You’ve had enough confrontatons, declarations, demands. Just move on quietly with your pride intact.
That’s awesome @truthinclarity! Yes, this website and Natalie’s articles are very therapeutic and I too have had some big “ah ha” moments read a couple in particular. Glad to hear that you are growing from reading the site. Best 🙂
Thanks Leanne. My best to you as well:-)
My close gf has been with her boyfriend around 2 1/2 years. She is about 53 and he is about 56. He promised her an engagement ring “before the end of 2014”. No ring, yet. But he is getting all the “milk” he wants. I think she is being patient to a fault. He HAS COMMITTED to her in words, but not in actions. He’s never been married whereas as she was married over 20yrs with two grown daughters in their mid-twenties. The life experiences don’t match at all. He may never produce a ring. I mention this because you don’t want this to happen to you, especially when there’s no engagement ring on the table.
I m with V. Allison. What part of the being in a dessert dying of thirst Isd attractive to you. This guy is passive aggressive & controlling. If you think that him ‘helping you’ with a few things (at HIS discretion based on whether you are pleasing him or not) then you need to redefine what love actually is. None of what you describe about thid guy is loving. Arrogant, cold hearted, & manipulative is more like it (ignoring you whilst you were sick in YOUR house – TWICE?)! Take off the rose colored glasses. Even your CHILD sees this more clearly than you do. As for being friends afterwards, once you feel.more ‘indifferent’ are you out of your mind? I don’t have the patience to explain what is so WRONG with that (except to say look at how he’s training you to be just like HIM! YUK!!) Get.rid of him & revlaim your dignity. This whole situation Is beneath you!
Curious, Any ‘friend’ who remains ‘friends with a man that has abused you (especially.physically but equally in other ways too) is NOT a friend. End of.
Oh boy brace yourselves ..I have had this male friend I met at work for 7 years and to be honest since he didnt try to sleep with me within the first yr coupled with an unhealthy love for Madonna I knew he was gay as the light of day LOL but in the closet! It took him 6.5 years to finally accept himself and he has recently come out and is now living the life of a gay man…( nothing wrong with that) as a matter of fact I actually support his life style and having gone through some challenges of my own in this department I tried to listen and provide advice but now its getting unhealthy because all he ever talks about is him dying by himself cos he cant find a mate or rehashing every Grinder conversation he has with an interest. It finally hit me a few days ago during drinks when the entire conversation centred around him and his dating life I snapped and decided man I have had enough of his draining personality and have just stopped speaking to him like WTH! How do people get like this and it reminded me that I have to re-inforce my boundaries because I told him countless times that his behaviour and obsession is boring me to pieces. Does it make me selfish (YES) but for good reason. Now to bring things into context maybe our friendship has hit its final stages of evolution because boy do I feel better not speaking him for close to a week even when I politely responded to a text explaining I am ok but I need to step away from my current drama to regain clarity ( preparing to uproot my life and move to a different state), his drama and relationship issues does he need me to spell it out lolololol.. OK I am done y’all!!!!
NCinCanada, I have a similar situation. I met a guy just as he was coming out of a relationship and he’s a great guy but it soon became an unhealthy dynamic of me being his armchair therapist – in terms of the break up but also all the various pains of his past (“this one time in Band Camp,” as NML puts it).
I understand what you’re saying about feeling selfish in reducing/limiting your contact (and I have felt/done the same), but the reality is, if he’s not adding to my life by contributing information, help, support, friendship then I am mindful to limit my attention on him.
Part of limiting my time/attention on him is my view that HE needs his own love and support right now more than I do. Our friendship will benefit if he is focused on his own healing and self care. He can be more fully present as a friend and more readily move me out of the armchair therapist role – and into a more balanced friendship. I would really like that. That would be far more satisfying and worthwhile for both of us in the long run, I think.
One element is that we haven’t known each other long so it’s not as though we have a long standing history of balanced, mutual friendship. It’s not clear whether this is an issue of we met when he was in temporary turmoil or this is just how he is and he absorbs all the therapist out of his friends as soon as he meets them until they’re depleted. Time will tell whether this is a passing thing or just how he views his friendships.
One thing I’ve done in my situation is, he used to FB chat me *constantly* to fill me in on his latest story of woe/difficulty/etc. It wasn’t balanced by quality time having fun and it started to get me down, feeling used. So I have “turned off” FB chat for him – if he wants to contact me, he has to email or call me now. I know he loves his FB chat but he’ll have to get his armchair therapy from someone else, if that’s how he wants to handle his issues. While I am willing to be his friend and be in contact, this allows me to be kind and respectful to myself/my time aka boundaries.
One thing I will leave you with is something that dawned on me today: when he uses me for armchair therapy, he misses out on all the other great things about me. Yes, I am a good listener and I sometimes have helpful insights to share… but there is so much more to me than that. And there is so much more to HIM than his problems – so we both miss out when someone makes us their “therapist.” This is a strong reason to step back and stick up for the friendship to be more than therapy. Both people miss out on the full spectrum of who a person is when they’re reduced to therapist/client type roles.
My two cents – hang in there… I am working on accepting that by setting boundaries in my friendship, it may fade away – and if so, it would have happened eventually anyway. Wishing you all the best!
Thanks Michelle … I am normally an introvert and the reason I stayed friends with him was having shared interests and similarities but one can only have the same conversation some many times before it becomes redundant. I feel that it has come to that point and I am fine with it to be honest.The more I think about it the more I realize now that I was only scared to find other friends. I may or may not continue the friendship but one things for sure no more therapy from me that part is all gone. He is a 40 yr old man and will need to get professional help or not talk to me about it cos I am not doing that anymore! Cheers
I guess what it comes down to is, NCinCanada: you know, WE deserve friends too. We deserve people who add joy to our lives and depend on and who take care of themselves so they can be fully present for US too.
In my situation, he wrote me a nice email when my cat died in March – in some ways, it was like he was “returning the favor” of ALL the hours of amateur therapy I’d given him. He probably thought he was “balancing the books” just by sending that one email.
The truth is, I didn’t need or want his support – I don’t see my friendships as a source of therapy. I *have* a therapist! I appreciated his kind email and let him know I was doing OK and that was it. He seemed to want to engage me in this “now let me be there for you” type thing but that’s just not how I view my friendships.
If he wanted to “repay” me for all those hours, it would be him – fully present, attentive, focused, listening, laughing, relaxed. *THAT* would be something I would make time for and that would feel like friendship to me.
I wonder if sometimes, we simply view the concept of friendship differently than others – some people really see friends as therapists, I suppose. I’m willing to be there for my friends when they need me but I’ve discovered with this guy, there ARE limits, especially when I’m not getting the friendship I want/deserve. I’m not demanding he change but I will limit my time with him unless he does. Not out of spite but out of respect for myself.