I was reading one of the first posts that appeared on Baggage Reclaim back in September 2005 about great expectations and I saw a quote I used from my ex fiance that highlighted the vast, cavenous difference between us:
“How can you say that I treated you badly? It’s not as if you caught me in bed with another woman or I use to beat you up?”
This reminds me of another post I wrote a little while back about getting into the heads of Mr Unavailables and assclowns where I quoted a bewildered guy accused of using various women to bail on rent and bills as saying “If I was really that bad, sure they wouldn’t be with me!”
This demonstrates the blinkered thinking that prevents these people from not only seeing the bigger picture but the reality of themselves.
Does that mean that if my ex fiance had lied to me (actually he did) and stolen from me that I would have had to turn a blind eye? And actually, the key word in his statement was ‘caught’ because it didn’t mean that he hadn’t actually been playing around! Mind games!
These quotes go to show how people rationalise their behaviour:
By comparing it to something they perceive as what you should consider being treated badly and deciding that whatever they have done is not all that bad.
By seeing if they are losing out somewhere and experiencing consequences.
With the former, my ex and anyone else who chooses to behave in this way, distances themselves from their actual actions and attempts to silence you in some sort of warped ‘glass is half full’ bullsh*t. With no real understanding of the impact of their behaviour and a lack of empathy that fuels the disconnection, they determine that because in their mind, people who do bad things do X,Y,Z, their behaviour isn’t really bad because it’s not in their little rule book.
With the latter, they experience no real negative consequences and in their mind, when people are behaving in an unacceptable manner and are doing ‘bad things’, they don’t get laid, they don’t get people trying to be with them, and they don’t continue to keep landing on their feet…that is unless you have women willing to turn a blind eye to these things in the name of ‘love’.
But it got me thinking, especially when reading through comments, what type of ridiculous hokey cokey bullsh*t has been said to you as their way of abdicating themselves of any responsibility for their actions, for the relationship, or how you may be feeling on the receiving end?
Share your examples and I (and no doubt readers) will decipher them.
Your thoughts?
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Great post!
I think the one that really sticks out in my mind is “Do you have any idea how much knowing I’ve hurt you causes me MASSIVE pain?”
Which was followed by a litany of all the things that upset him (me making him jealous, when I had in fact bent over backwards to try and not make him jealous – such as cutting off platonic friendships with male friends, much to my own dismay and sadness).
Then, ten minutes on the heels of that email, there were angry questions about the last person I had ever slept with.
Then… ten minutes later, there was one more email in which he accused me of doing things ON PURPOSE to make him jealous, get attention, keep control over him (again, totally untrue), which ended with him telling me, “So f*** off!”
I was dumbfounded! This, all from someone who wanted to marry me, create a life together, combine our households and do a “great job of loving me.”
That same statement above about hurting me was also why he couldn’t talk to me most nights anymore at the end, because he was crying, upset and all mixed up. He kept backing out, saying he needed to step back. Then he’d tell me how wrecked he was and about how much he loved me. Did we EVER talk about how his behavior was affecting ME? No! There was never any space left with all his drama (and I also didn’t make any). It was maddening and I think he’s got some real problems.
But I’ve also realized through this whole rollercoaster that I’m definitely EU myself, with terrible boundaries, so I’m working on that. And trying very hard to maintain NC.
It was a case of The Return of the Childhood Sweetheart and I blindly walked into a really bad situation, but luckily, got myself out fairly quickly.
I found out my ex EUM was cheating on me because the woman he was cheating with started calling and harrassing me. She would throw stuff on my car, etc…I confronted him and he denied, denied, denied (of course). I broke it off with him and told him to move out. During this time, he would try to fix things but everytime he would come over to get his things and talk, the woman would be calling and calling, harrassing and would literally be parked oustide our house like a psycho! I guess she was paranoid about us getting back together….. so I argued this point with him and he proceeds to tell me, “but babe, I’m not with her now out of respect for you! I wouldn’t do that to you!” I was like are you f#$%& kidding me with this?? Out of respect for me? How about not being with her WHILE you were with me assclown!!! I cut off all contact completely…..good riddance!
“There was this one time – i spent all day outside cutting the grass, and then went to a soccer game with friends. She called screaming that i wasn’t “there for her” and payed no mind to her all day long, everyone tells me i did too much, i tried too hard. She’s fuck**”
My response – (after hearing poor pathetic me whining and playing push/pull for 3 yrs – I need you! Get Away!! Wait come back!! No! I told you NO i DON”T WANT A RELATIONSHIP! I Treasure you and our friendship please see me!!!)
“I don’t believe one fuc**** word that comes out of your mouth (enter his name here). You are a completely deluded, pathetic, depressed loser with nothing to offer, you jerk off and cry yourself to sleep everynight bacause deep in your soul you know you’re a worthless useless bum, and i faked every orgasm”
“(my name here) You must be on your rag,. I’m buying you this dinner, you should be a little nice to me” (smiles at me). I never ever cheated on my wife. continues to eat his steak. It sounds like to me, you have been cheated on in the past. You seem a little guarded”
****Natalie and Ladies – You have to know that everything you just read were words I TEXT messaged to him HOURS before – and he PERSISTED to take me out for dinner….
NML – If this isn’t someone completely off their rocker than i don’t know what is. yes – it was completely idiotic of me to agree to see him, but … well… hell… i’m here reading your posts, so there’s no need to explain why i went.
I’m 26 years old… he’s 37. Thank the Lord that i found this site.
Wow, my list could go on and on … He used the same line your ex used, NML : ““How can you say that I treated you badly? It’s not as if you caught me in bed with another woman or I use to beat you up?â€â€
One time I got brave and told him that he was being verbally abusive and he told me that was “laughable” and that if he were, then I wouldnt want to speak to him again.
He told me that he didnt want his family to meet me – not because he was ashamed of me or that he was being mean – but because they would probably “like” me and that wouldnt be a good reflection on him … and he laughed.
Another time I got upset that he stood me up to go out with his sister and wouldnt invite me to go along – he got mad at me! I asked, where are you going? and he said “I’m not going to tell you because … you might show up.” … more laughter on his part.
Everything he said was said like a joke – that is how he justified the cruelest things he could ever say – it was funny, it was a joke – cant you have any fun?
When I think back to the situations where my exEUM said the most ridiculous things to justify his behavior, and how often I bought into them well… it’s just plain embarrassing. Now, after many months I can say WTF was wrong with me?
But there were a lot of things which were wrong and anyone who has been to this site knows, we have our own issues. But, each time I let him think I bought the excuse or ridiculous statement, was another step down in self-esteem for me. I didn’t see it then, but I clearly can see it now.
Statements like “Yeah, I know I’m selfish, but so are all my friends.” or “Are we supposed to have communication every few hours or you’ll be upset and mad at me?”
If I had one wish for the holidays it would be that we all love ourselves enough to know when to get out. When to stop trying harder. To listen to our gut, and to see the red flags. To just take good care of ourselves so that we can minimize the pain and exit a relationship with Mr Unavailable. To feel good that we made the right choice and we put our own needs above theirs.
Update on my previous post: I haven’t had ANY contact w/my ex for a month and made it very clear to him AND her that I didn’t want or care to know anything about them…..she called me several times yesterday (I didn’t answer)…….OK, so WHY is she still calling me….Ladies, help me out here……
Everything the EUM said and did that I wasted time on was a lie. I found out from his brother’s wife what had been going on with EUM for the last 4 years of his life (before he looked me up again professing undying love, devotion, and “I want a relationship” crap). When his brother’s wife filled in all the questions I had about certain situations in our current so called “relationship”, I put the NO CONTACT into motion. The messages he left after this, “I have bent over backwards for you. I have gone out of my way to do right by you. I heard you said I was with some other B**** you just get these crazy thoughts in your head so f*** you!”. A week after NO
CONTACT, he called and left this on my cell phone, “I wish you would unblock your home phone I miss talking to you.” Then there was a pause and in a sad voice he said, “well I guess you don’t want to talk to me”. That was nearly 3 weeks ago. and I have heard nothing since.The sister in law told me he had been with a girl for 4 years who got incarcerated “about the time he started calling me”. I did confront him about this girl and he denied it. I was also told he loved me “but not in that way”. I actually began to wonder if the sister in law was doing me a favor or really on the girlfriend’s side. I initiated the NO CONTACT, although I questioned the sister in laws motivation. This was mine and EMU’s second encounter. First time was 18 years ago when I spent a miserable 4 years with him, and thought I was over him, and thought I was smarter. Obviously I learned nothing, and ashame I fell for it again.
I cant remember anything my ex said about that,but I always had the felling that he didnt get how bad he was treating me.Even though he was being indiferent and not puting much efort most of the time.But I think to him that doesnt qualify as “bad treatment”.
The last Mr. Unavailable I dated (I finally have admitted that he is a Mr. Unavailable, I wasn’t “sure”) was a decent enough guy, but he was definitely unavailable. His unavailability was with his time, he was always on the go, his life is filled with the activity fitting of a 23 year old boy, not a 39 year old man. He is definitely a free spirit. I don’t really think there is anything wrong with that, but let’s just say he’s not a good candidate for a serious, committed and long term relationship.
Our breaking point came after a 5 week separation due to our vacation schedules (we were three hours away NY – Washington D.C. as it was), which turned out to really be 8 weeks because he was not straight with me about the length we’d be apart and whether or not he’d be including me in some of his activities (a university tailgate/football game and a camping trip – both things I in which I would happily partake – ok – the camping maybe not so much).
His great lines included: “Well you decided to spend two weekends away from me in Europe!” – Never mind that on one of our phone conversations while I was in Europe I offered to fly home a weekend early to see him because I missed him and knew we’d be apart for a few more weeks (little did I know more than I was thinking….). He said that I should stay and enjoy the rest of my vacation, and I did. I’m glad I didn’t cut my vacation short for him, I would have been making all the sacrifices.
THEN, a week after we broke up, he said he tried to call me, two times, and that both times he got a message from the phone company saying that my “number had been disconnected”. He thought I wanted him out of my life for good because he didn’t receive a mass email from me indicating that I had changed my number.
THEN he told me he was likely moving for work from D.C. to Seattle in January. (D.C. was a 6 month job, prior to that he was working three hours north of me in CT)
During our phone conversation (our only one since we broke up) it seemed to me like we still had feelings for one another, but he did say “he didn’t think he would ever settle down, that he liked doing what he likes to do.” (so at least he’s honest).
However, he did tie his moving to Seattle to his thinking I disconnected my number. He said “But I thought you had disconnected your number.” – I almost felt like he was trying to insinuate that had he gotten through to me things might have been different and he might have not applied for a transfer – something like that.
Which is crazy because:
a) it was a technical glitch, I hadn’t disconnected my number, he could have emailed me or called the next day and he would have seen that. (I know he’s not making this up, there was a day about the time that he says he called that others told me they got that recording).
b) he admitted he likes doing what he likes to do. So if he had gotten through – what would have happened – would we have dated another couple months, me ignoring the opposite. He would have moved to Seattle. He would have not included me in his plans.
Yet – I found his comments – about how it was ME that was unavailable by being on vacation in Europe for two weekends (out of the 8 or 9 we were apart); and it was ME that disconnected my phone (even through I didn’t) – that is the reason we are not together. It’s not HIS emotional unavailability and choosing to live a life that prohibits him from getting too close to anyone, setting down any roots or living an adult lifestyle.
Wow – I thought I didn’t need to post a comment (sometimes it’s theraputic for me) – I was wrong! Sorry for the rant.
Whoops – in “b” above I meant to say “ignoring the obvious” not “ignoring the opposite”
My Ex EUM – ugh… Told me the reason he didn’t tell me that he had a woman roomate move into his house 5 months earlier… that’s right he didn’t mention her – because she had a dog… Um WTF????? weird thing is I LIKE DOGS… A**hole. Then he say’s I didn’t tell you because I knew you wouldn’t like it??? Got that right!
He also said that if he ever cheated he would never admit it – he said it wouldn’t be fair to hurt me just to clear his mind.. How trying to keep it in your F’in pants?????
There are so many more things I could mention but they just make me look stupid for hanging out for it.
I don’t like to hate but I F’n hate him..
Sylol….She’s scared to death he’s back with you. She probably see’s what he’s really like, how could she not after what he’ s done to you but is desperate to hold on. Better to make you out to be the bad guy then the real bad guy, then she’d have to accept what a jerk he is.
I have a male friend and ended our 13yr purely platonic friendship. His girlfriend had been cheated on by her ex and as she told him she couldn’t be with someone who’d be friends with other women. Then I see his true worth when he said to me “We’ll still be friends but I’ll have to get a different phone to use when we talk because she goes thru my calls”. I told him absolutely not, either we’re friends out in the open as usual or we’re not. And if he’s going to 1. Put up with that then good luck with that and 2. I won’t be party to that kind of behavior involving his girlfriend. He tried to justify all of it by saying what she didn’t know wouldn’t hurt her and he didn’t want to lose me as his friend.
I saw him in a WHOLE new light, even friends try to justify their bad behavior not just the ones we sleep with.
This site is fantastic! It has certainly helped me snap out of this relationship insanity. Just before I split up with my ex he said ‘You are lucky, I still fancy you after all these years’ ‘It isn’t like I ever hit you’.
Then my EUM after confronting him about another woman with information I had been told said. Oh… I may have kissed her at a works do…….I’m being as honest as I can be’.. Yes, that speaks volumes.
Finally broke free of this ridiculous relationship. Can’t understand how/why I got in to it or hung around for so long. I don’t usually find it hard to walk away from bad behavior in relationships, but kept going back for more.
Turns out he has about four people at work at his beck and call and he usually sees them in works time as he works a lot of night shifts and gets away with it. He is living with someone too.
Thank you for helping us to drop the illusion and see things as they really are. I
,
I haven’t been on for a while, as your posts put things so right in my head I needed time to get used to “knowing stuff”! But I come back and find a brilliant and informative article, as usual.
I remember with The Player (Mr Unavailable as I called him after reading your stuff) “complaining” rather nicely to him that while I was writing him 10 to 15 long(ish) emails a day, I was only getting 2 or 3 one or two liners in return and that it “didn’t seem very well balanced” and I would like to hear more from and about him.
His response? “…and I detect an underlying current of passive-aggressive behaviour in how you talk to me…”????? Yer Wot? a woman calmly and honestly stating how she sees a situation is “passive-aggressive”? lolol Maybe the others, but not This One. I tend to be EITHER passive OR aggressive, depending on whether or not I’m being treated well or badly!
Ah, the nonsense they come up with to cover their saggy butts! Thank you for these articles that make things all the clearer.
Best Regrds, Leonine.
Hmm…I’d have to say the best I’ve heard is, “I know I acted like an ass but I did it (ignored you for 2 weeks for no apparent reason until you begged me to come back to you) because I love you.” WTF!!?? Ok, needless to say – after 8 months of this weirdness I’m on day 32 of NC. I cant believe how many times in the past I begged, stalked, pleaded, gave him recognition for his fluctuating behavior since he was only being cautious due to our “deep love” he’s never experienced – I’m finally so tired. I’ve never reacted this way in a relationship before. I’m usually over it in about 2 weeks but for some reason I turned into this monster trying to preserve drama with an assclown! Of course he felt the need to disappear numerous times because I was “too good for him” (duh…I know that) but the last straw was a couple days of verbal insults from his moody ass and thats when I just sort of shut off. I have this constant pain in my gut more due to the sudden realization that I was taken for a ride than actual heartbreak. I think Im too angry at this point to feel sorrow for my “loss?” His words..he had so many words. Poems and powerful statements like “I’ve never loved this way before” and he would hold up his hand and say “Your hand belongs in mine forever”. I was soooo taken in I thought I might float away half the time. We made plans..not talk of our future but actual plans. Then once I resolved to cut contact he did too and I havent heard from him since. Go figure.
Well…mine is foreign so everytime I would expect that he would act like a “real” person, he would just do whatever he wanted and then tell me that is why he hesitates to be with me because he really wants a subservient wife that doesn’t ask him questions like where has been and what has he been doing. Then he would tell me that he knows life with me would be giving up to much of his values. He, of course, loves me more than the world…but his religion and his beliefs mean that he can only have me on the side as he likes his life as it is. Finally, I am seeing it all for the bs it is instead of feeling like I am lacking in something…go figure…!
NML,
How about after flirting with me for 4 years while he had another girlfriend…. telling me he was emotionally, intellectually and physically attracted to me — and grabbing my boobs another time and moaning — and then telling me how hard I made him yet another time and coming in his pants — and that I was “dangerous” and “my eyes were driving him crazy” and ‘the chemistry is so thick it is tangible” —
HE THEN after he breaks up with the girlfriend and is now technically available and we could finally hook up and finally actually HAVE sex instead of just talking — HE DECIDES HE DOESN’T WANT TO BEGIN TO DATE OR HAVE A RELATIONSHIP WITH ME AFTER ALL,
telling me that “you mis-read me.” and ‘go work for habitat for humanity if you are lonely” and “I was only being friendly”.
.-= Loving Annie´s last blog ..Upcoming Vacations =-.
I had MY closure talk last night. I had unanswered questions than I wanted answering, one and a half hours later, I pretty much know it all now. I wasn’t invited out with his friends or to meet his family bcause he never took US seriously. We were supposed to be having a bit of ‘fun’. He said he realized he had killed our 7 year friendship and was ashamed at the way he treated me but if he said a million apologies nothing would change. He is selfish and has a dark side he has to check on every day of his life, he’s learning sooo much about himself. What was interesting is that I at some point in the talk realized he doesn’t actually now what love is, or how it feels. This makes me sad for him. He said every transaction he does has a I scratch your back you scratch mine, that every relationship is conditional. he doesn’t understand that people give out of love for each other!!!!
Umm ok, here’s the thing, I told him, in every relationship there is trust, respect, care and love, and you smashed all of those things, he said, I guess I never loved you.. I said, your actions proved that. His ending sentence, I know I lost you, but you have lost me too. What I wished I had said that I didn’t was.. No, you have lost my trust care respect and love, I have lost nothing because I never had trust care respect or love from you. I just said, I’m sorry you asked to be my friend thats something I cannot give you.
I have put it to rest, now I can heal. I know however he is with doesn’t matter, he has nothing to give, and if thats sick on my part for having some satisfaction in that, so be it, for now it helps me move on.
I have a nice one from my AC, who
– vanished on me for days on end
– poured out his moods all over me
– dumped me several times because I gently brought up issues important to me
– perpetrated lots more assclownery
One day, when I complained, he very woundedly said to me:
‘What are you complaining about? I’m not a violent alcoholic like my father, beating you up or something!’
Now, he is 5’8, a puny, unfit little manboy. I am 5’10, work out at the gym and pretty much tower over him, particularly in heels … I laughed loudly and heartily, being able, as I am, to snap this little sh*t in two.
“What do you mean, abusive?”
“You’re lucky to have me, I don’t drink, or hit you”.
“Other women would love to have a man like me”.
“I’ve never trusted you”.
.-= jordylass´s last blog ..everything is my fault…. =-.
“I hate that I’ve hurt you” — assclown
“Just wanted to say ‘hi’ and let you know that I still think of you often” — a text after a year. — assclown
I received this email from my ex (9 years together) in the midst of our breakup. As it was, she (I am a woman too) was having an affair, with one of my best friends, and they had signed a lease together, using money from our joint account: I wouldn’t find out about the affair until a bit later, but, well, when she composed this lovely email, she certainly knew what she was doing.
“Baby, I didn’t ask for a divorce. I’m tired of fighting and feeling like everything I do lets you down. You heard that I wanted to leave you in October and have been treating me accordingly ever since…constantly clawing one’s way out of a hole with no grips is never going to be successful. I don’t know how to make you believe anything anymore and it is ruining me to try. i may have said something that you interpreted as wanting to breakup 8 months ago – but you have working very hard shut me out/beat me down since then. words and actions should match up – and they haven’t.
i have loved you and i do love you – and that was one thing i asked from you in our relationship wasvto believe it – and you haven’t…and I don’t know how to fight that anymore.”
I think the big excuse is “I do this because I love you”
I was in a relationship with a guy who wanted to control everything I wear, what I eat, my friends, etc but I never let him do that and we always got in big fights because of this, his excuse was the same “I ask for this because I love you, if you love me you will do as I tell you” and he only was happy when there was drama or fighting.
What gets me more mad is how other woman justify his behavior, maybe because I live in a Latin American country and our culture is different. A lot of “friends” told me that I should do as he says because he has a lot of money and because we should always do what a man says.
I dont want someone to pay my bills, I pay my bills, I dont want someone to rescue me because I dont need to be rescue. I just want someone to be there for me emotionally and someone who is my bestfriend and lover.
Nele, I think we dated the same man! After I inform him that a man who tells a woman he loves her one minute and bails on her the next minute is an asshole, he says to me, “Well if it makes you feel better so think so, go ahead. People are allowed to change their minds.”
He didn’t get that true love doesn’t flip on and off like a switch, and his version of love, like all the other EUMs and assclowns of the world, is nothing but fantasy, like virtual reality.
He also said in one of our myriad breakups that God was telling him to extricate himself from our relationship, and if he sacrificed ‘us’, then God had something better in store for him! WTF? The man actually had me angry at God! Needless to say shortly after we broke up he turned to Budda and to the village tramp who is his Sugar Mommy.
Thank God for your site NML; it helps women to put all of this BS in perspective and sort out the mindfuckery these types put us through.
“I am just selfish I think”
“if you were smart you would dump me”
“why do you put up with me?”
So, I didnt listen to him telling me who he was in those lines, so then he started these lines:
“you are perfect, and as much as I want to make an emotional investment in you, i cant”.. “something is missing”, “I am not 100%”, “you fast forwarded this relationship”, “maybe its our chemistry”, “when I left for 5 weeks this summer, it wasnt good for us, we were disconnected”,
Then, when I asked “it is me, not the issues, then, that is the problem?”
He went back to “no you are perfect, its not you”
“i am the car but the engine is broken”
etc. etc. etc…
very confusing! I fault myself for not listening to who he was telling me he was. But I fault him for trying to blame me, the summer, the speed of the relationship and whatever else he could.. This is how they operate. Believe a man when he tells you who he really is.
I finished with my EUM in April of this year and for the first time in many years have begun to feel at peace with myself. I was married for 25 years to a classic EUM, and have dated three more since my marriage ended. No more! I have found this site and realised where I’d gone wrong for the last 35 years! Yes, I’m 57 and beginning to understand at last why I have made the awful decisions, and had no boundaries. I am unable to avoid meeting my latest ex EUM, but he made me howl with laughter when he described his new relationship to me…..wait for it ladies…..”It’s nothing to do with me, it’s up to her whether she goes out with me or not” As you have said NML, a ridiculous statement from a man who really doesn’t comprehend the reality of himself, and who lead me a merry dance for two years. Thanks to Baggage Reclaim, he was my Epiphany relationship and now part of my history, and I’m moving into my own future with my eyes open, a wiser head and some very clear boundaries in place.
I am in the first stages of NC with the ex. My (former) best friend is now dating him (thus, how I found your site with the coup de grace article)…
He accused me of being the reason he got a DUI. He accused me of hurting him because I wouldn’t marry him when he asked (while on day 5 of a drunken binge) and just recently said “I really am not the guy for you anyway..but I will always love you.” arrrrrrghhhhhhhhhh
my ex eum emailed me after we broke up wanting to see me again “as friends”. I said “ok, but as friends that means no sexual comments and no touching”
He then said I was denying him his natural male urges and i couldn´t ask that of him. Hahaha, how ridiculous is that.
No need to say I didn´t meet up with him…
While we were together he said some very blunt and rude things. Like that I wouldn´t be a responsible mother (say what?) When I confronted him he said he was just being honest and that I should appreciate that. I was being very negative according to him… meanwhile he was the most negative and cynical person I ever met.
I didn´t stick around long but longer then I should have…
When I called him on his behaviour (via email) he said, “you are trying to say that I am a d**k?” I said, “yes, a little bit.” He replied, “lol…what can I say?”
That says it all–and nothing at all.
what I find interesting is how they just claim that they are selfish but seem to have no ability/desire to control the way they are….its like they are separated from their behaviors. .. wait, they are, arent they?? I guess that is the disconnect. it is totally alien. If any of us believed we were selfish, we would work to change that in a relationship. It is so weird and foreign.
MC – I think we dated the EXACT same guy! I heard the following:
“I don’t want to hurt you”,
“I did and do think of you often. Thank you for your thoughtfulness”
” I just couldn’t give you 100%”
“I was scared to say those 3 little words”
“I’m patient and I can wait for you”
“I can’t live in fantasyland” (suggesting that I didn’t fit in his fantasy of the perfect girl)
“Ever since we talked, I have thought about you daily” (Well, gee wiz! What effort! You must really like me!!)
“Maybe we can just meet up every now and again” (Yes, he was suggested we can hook up periodically. I actually took him back after this!)
Yes, when an assclown gives you hints as to what they can and can’t do for you, LISTEN!
My worse:
He said: “Listen, I was married for 12 years. Of course I’ve learned how to lie.”
Then he looked at me with this crooked weird smile on his face – like “Is she going to let me get away with that?”
I did. Sadly.
All these things were said by my AC in the period of about two weeks.
We need to break up as I’m too in love with you, the last time I felt like this was my ex and she broke my heart
We need to break up at I can only ever care about you80%
We need to break up as you obviously love me more than I love you and it’s not fair on you, I’m so proud of myself of stopping this before I hurt you more
We need to break up because I never really wanted to be a relationship with you, it just was so easy the last eight months have flown by.
I need you in my live can we be friends or carry on having sex and just take everything down a gear?
The thing about me is I’m just selfish and all the reasons you’ve given for loving me aren’t even true
By loving me you’re just trying to make me weak
If things get more serious you’re going to want me to be there for you, ring you when your upset, speak to you everyday and that just seems like hardwork.
You are the best thing in my life, I need you in it you are my best friend.
Cut to two months and endless emails, constant ringing, txts
I don’t want to get back with you,I just want to see you- why can’t you remember the happy times from our relationship? You’re only mad at me because you didn’t get exactly what you wanted but what you fail to understand is that I didn’t either. Then he posted on his website that he was heartbroken and addded a link to a song about a woman whose a Btch
Assclown 1, when I discovered he’d slept over with someone he met at a party:
“I’m selfish when I go out”
Assclown 2, when I discovered he was still in another relationship:
“I’ve been trying to explain without the details”
Neither in my life now, thanks to this site.
Absolutely amazing the similarities in most of these posts. Are men initiated into some kind of secret organization who teaches them this crap or are they just born with these traits? This is the first time I’ve ever had to force myself to utilize NC and its strange…after about a month you start to see things in a new way. I’m very proud of myself. I tweaked out on his horoscope for weeks trying to get a morsel of where his head was at but all I ended up with was that he’s going to win the lottery, marry the woman of his dreams and live happily ever after LOL!! Trust me when I say GOOD RIDDANCE. I didnt have to make an effort to switch the focus from him to me – I was obsessed and in denial for the longest time and I even resolved to make myself the exception to the women on this site claiming that I will do NC but I will secretly love and wait for him to return to me. One morning you WILL come to the realization that you are too good for manipulation and you dont have time for a daily emotional rollercoaster ride. The most difficult transition you will make is figuring out what to do with the time you once wasted on him. I suddenly began thinking of myself and came to terms with fact that I am not living and breathing for some dope who makes me walk on eggshells lest the cease of what little attention he offered. I have no idea when I decided to let some fool wipe his feet on me but thanks to this site I now know why…and I now know that his jaw dropping excuses for doing so are no longer original!
How about this text I got 2 weeks after I left him b/c I found out he was cheating via text messages on his cell phone and chat logs on his facebook….
“I miss u & I can’t believe u gave up on us that easy over something that was a misunderstanding.”
A misunderstanding?? Is that what we’re calling it these days? I don’t think I misunderstood a girl texting him talking about how giddy he was making her and all of the butterflies he was making her feel. And I know I didn’t misunderstand the facebook chat where they discussed a particular kiss and how he was wanting more.
I sent him back “u threw away us the moment u opened the door to someone else.”
His response was “I opened the door for no one.”
I didn’t bother responding to the liar after that. So he again asked me to send him his passport if I should find it and we are back to no contact.
I cannot wait for this nightmare to be over for good!
Sylol,
This is clearly harassment. I would either change your number or report this activity to the police as I believe it is a felony.
I was asking for permission to call him, over that now, convo below:
Me: Hope you don’t mind if I call you.
EUM: If you don’t mind that I don’t answer my phone.
WTF???
I said, youv’e known me for seven years and you don’t know anything about me’..he said ‘ I know you are a people pleaser’.
Uugghh.. I’m so disgusted!
I’m blown away too by how similar these guys are. I totaly agree with AJ, I’m 42 days with NC and it does feel good. I’m still alittle sad that he threw 11yrs away by cheating but that was his choice his decision. He made his and I made mine.
I finally saw them together at a store about a week ago (they didn’t see me) and while I must admit there was a pang of jealousy for about a day but it passed. It would of been easy to text a “Hello” to get a response (I have no doubt I would of gotten one, he’s never passed up an ego stroke in his life) to fight the jealousy but I’m proud to say I worked through those feelings and didn’t. Gold Star for me !!!!
Before this site I would of been a basket case but I turn to it and the wonderful ladies on it for inspiration and support.
@Wandering Ivy I can hear a lot of child but not a lot of sweetheart going on here. The thing is, it wasn’t causing him massive pain because he took it upon himself to cause you more. Personally, I don’t think he sounds like the full shilling. He’s far too switchy for my tastes.
@Sylol Mr Unavailable’s and assclowns, despite what they protest, have a penchant for drama. It gives them license to believe they are justified in what they are doing by blaming the drama on you. As a result, if you’ve been involved with him and not run a mile, it’s suffice to say that this new woman has done the same thing and comes with her own bag of drama. He hasn’t materialised into catch of the year just because he’s moved on to another woman. She’s paranoid as she knows she’s got tainted goods.
@Pushing.Thru Waaaaaaay too much drama going on there! He’s also pulling the PPMW – Poor Pathetic Me Whine. He values things like cutting the grass as for some reason he thinks it makes him important and carries some sort of weight – it’s just cutting the grass!
@Annied He certainly has no concept of what abuse is about – it’s part of the problem with bullies. They think that if they were that bad that you wouldn’t be there but it’s because he’s eroded your self-esteem and fed into the feeling of powerlessness. The joke strategy is a way of minimising and invalidating your feelings – I think it’s a joke so it is even though it’s not.
@Betterwithouthim Those are great wishes. Believe that you can be this way. Your guy clearly values his peers – like a teenager. He thinks his behaviour is OK because everyone else is that way in his circle.
@Sylol Restraining order. I suspect that he has his part to play in this, No doubt he has no good intentions towards her either and may be using your name in conversations to ensure she doesn’t feel at ease.
@Cherie It’s very difficult to know the motives of the sister in law. What I do know is if you had a crap relationship 18 years ago and he’s behaved like an assclown recently, whether she says something or not, it’s best to steer clear of him. Don’t beat yourself up – just be relieved that you’ve got out of it and move on.
@Anusha Indifference can feel as bad as if they are saying nasty stuff. But indifference is no mans land – that’s one place you don’t want to be.
@Ashley We can put whatever term on it that we like but he’s not available to you or for a relationship and instead of admitting that his awkwardness and unwillingness to create a common ground with you killed off the relationship, he instead picks out some stupid stuff and lays it all at your door. This is what these guys do after each break up – distancing themselves from the truth and distorting themselves into poor, ill done by guys.
@Trish When a guy tells you he is deceptive and a liar, it means you need to run. Fast. Wha utterly pathetic lies – he didn’t fear your reaction – he’d feared being honest in case it made him an accountable man in a relationship
@Mary C You are absolutely correct and I’m glad that you recognised how inappropriate it would have been to be veiled in secrecy.
@freeatlast Lucky? This man’s a buffoon! So if he could on be 10% honest, you’d have to accept that as his capabilities?
@Leonine I think the imbalance demonstrates the crumbs factor with Fallback Girls – For everything one thing they do, we’ll be breaking out in a flurry of activity or we have to do a lot to provoke a miniscule bit of action out of them
@AJ When men want to be with you they don’t resist being with you. The problem with this guy is that it’s all words – no matter what was said, he didn’t follow through – he bailed. He’s unreliable and when you hunt him down, you’re inviting unreliability into your life.
@Loving Annie Flabbergasting! WTF can be misread about groping you up like a randy teenager?! Is that how he greets everyone? I’d hate to see what he’d do if he was interested in dating or being in a relationship. He was on a power trip – getting a kick out of your interest in him. Friendly? Utterly disgraceful behaviour. If a woman did that, she’d be called a pr*ck tease.
@Gigi Never accept being someone’s secret, especially for his loser reasons. At the end of the day, he’s complaining about fundamentals and basically telling you ‘This ship is not going to sail’. Do not allow him to use you until he has a better option.
@De-lightedtobefree It’s not sick – it’s just time to let go. We all get there in different ways and the important thing now is to accept so that you can grieve and move on.
@Nele Wow! This guy epitomises my post. In his mind, he is doing his damndest not to be his father and is not realising that he’s doing other things. I bet he has short man syndrome too…
@jordylass When men talk like this, it is a sign that they need to be dumped, pronto. No halfway decent man says sh*t like this!
@MC What a joker! He should have said that he thinks of you once a year!
@singloudly She is dodging her part in the end of your relationship and in light of the fact that she’d been fleecing your joint account with her new partner, it shows her great capacity for deception. Rather than admit that she’d emotionally left you to be with someone else, she blames her lack of feelings for you on you, implying if only you’d been and done more, she’d still be there.
@scandia He’s a controller and be very careful of it crossing into abuse.Your friends are not very bright, supportive, or empowering, probably because they believe men are sources of security. Stick to your guns.
lindsay bluth “Needless to say shortly after we broke up he turned to Budda and to the village tramp who is his Sugar Mommy.” – brilliant line! This guy is the creme de la creme of responsibility dodgers – he’s saying God told him to do it!
@am Yep, when a man basically tells you he’s rubbish, it’s a major warning sign. If you don’t heed the warning, they’ll blame you as they feel it absolves them of their actions because you were forewarned.
@oldchris What kind of ridiculousness is swirling around in this mans head? Is he just a cardboard cutout that shows up! You are well rid of him!
@Cyndy This guy is a creep – period!
@truthhurts This guy is a piece of work! ‘Natural urges’ my arse. He’s not interested in friendship – he wants a free ride!
@fleur You should have said ‘a lot’!
@am If you don’t have to change, you won’t. Until these men struggle to get women, they stay as they are
@omelas This man is a flip flapper and never let a man downgrade your status!
@Blaise Parker OOh! He is shameless! Don’t let anyone pull that again! You’re much wiser now!
@Fiona How does he know it’s 80%? He sounds desperate and out of control. He can’t cope with being in a relationship and no doubt you’ll join the long line of women who’ve hurt him and he’ll never look closely at his own behaviour.
@peacefrog Utterly disgraceful! Thank God you’re away from them!
@AJ I’ve often wondered the same thing 🙂 You are absolutely right – we all have our enough moment and I’m glad you’ve had yours. Better to have gone through that than to continued on regardless. These men end up teaching us what we need to heal in ourselves.
@Heather I think you’re understanding him perfectly fine. He’s now in deny mode where he won’t admit to anything that he doesn’t have to. Ditch him as soon as you can!
@Gayle Indeed
@Isabella Very disrespectful!
@de-igtedtobefree He was describing you as a doormat.
wow I really wish all of us were in one giant room together. I need to hear all your stories/advice and opinions, Love shouldn’t feel like a constant stab in the heart.
Bless you for taking the time to respond to each and every one of us, Natalie! I know you’ve got your hands full at the moment, with a little one and not feeling well, so thank you for your kindness and consideration.
Hi NML,
Yeah, I’m so disgusted by this, it shows he knows nothing about me, I am altruistic, not a people pleaser, I know when to say no, I know how to delegate, I know a bad relationship and bullies and I can walk away at a blink of an eye…shame he didn’t realize that when he was begging me for his friendship, Now he knows a bit more about me 🙂 he said, ‘I am selfish and I have a dark side, I have to watch this every day of my life’… I replied, yeah I understand, I know I am generous and I have to say NO 4 times out of every five. Poor baby cried. Yeah… next!!
Not his doormat anymore 🙂 xxx thanks NML
I’m sorry MNL, I didn’t know you were unwell, please feel better soon. And, I thought this morning how lovely it is you are answering everyone too.. like Wandering Ivy, I wanted to thank you for that as well 🙂
I found your site two days ago and it’s been a godsend – after three years of wasting my time i was finally broken up with by my EUM/AC (he’s a bit of both to be honest it hurts to even say it just yet as it’s still raw and i loved him with everything i had, but it’s true) – by email – this week. This blog has single handedly pushed me out of the black hole of dispair i was living in and made me see the light. I’ve actually laughed out loud at certain things, which is something i didn’t think i’d be doing for quite a while yet.
This was a classic EUM/AC situation where he had other emotional commitments by the spade which he just wouldn’t address and whilst we were soul mates and lovers (and I genuinely believed that we had something special here and he did too, that i know) he just couldn’t stand up and make the necessary adjustements to his life to accomodate this relationship he claimed to want so badly – or let me go. Hence I was strung along indefinitely living off crumbs the entire time (he left, he came back, he hesitated, he promised he was committing, he then did nothing and promised, he asked me to wait, he promised he’d never leave me, he promised things were being sorted out, he questioned why i believed things were not happening and then he just disappeared) – hoping that my patience and love would somehow prevail and that if I proved myself hard enough he’d finally take me out of one of the compartments of his life and make me a place at the center of it like i had… yeah right.
For the first time in this “relationship” i held him to his promises this week and gently but firmly re-set boundaries that he had been pushing for years (in the future this will happen, this time next year this will happen, by christmas this will have happened etc…. the list goes on) and reminded him the clock was ticking and that i was observing him. He panicked, probably sensed i was serious this time and that he’d made a fool out of me quite enough at this point, and he bolted. Sent me an email to say goodbye because he was sorry but he couldn’t deliver what he’d promised in the end, he’d taken the wrong path, made the wrong decision and needed to back track and take another, and that he preferred to write to me to explain things properly and to remember us in a nice way not crying (hence the email) and that he didn’t want to waste any more of my time because he wasn’t worth it he just wasn’t ready- so to forget about him because he wasn’t coming back. An email… after all of the time i wasted and the promises he made about being ready (I had clearly put it to him on many occasions that i felt he was not ready and to just leave now if that was the case) and the support i gave him, all i was worth was an email.
I wish i’d done that a long time ago (he’s been playing cat and mouse since the beginning) i’d have saved myself so much trauma and the humiliation that he finally called the shots at the end. But i’ve learned my lesson. The hard way.
I loved your list of how to recognise an EUM – mine was definitely a walking, constant excuse with issues that i was trying to fix. He came up with classics such as “I’ll always love you no matter what” (fat lot of good that is to me if you’re not with me), “I miss you too” (so why aren’t you making time for me, why are we speaking on the phone instead of meeting up), “you’re the only woman i’ll ever love” (but not enough to actually want to be with me properly), “you’re the most fabulous woman in the world” (yet again thanks very much but if i’m that great why aren’t you with me properly) and general statements along the lines of “but you’re not in my shoes and until you experience XYZ you can’t understand how difficult this is for me” (because of course, your problems are always that much harder than mine what would i know about life) – another variation of that was “you had a happy childhood so you can’t understand this” or “I can’t keep having this conversation over and over again” (well if you were doing what you said you’d be doing we wouldn’t be having this bloody conversation again now would we)… He made me feel like there was something wrong with me in the end it was awful.
His actions were absolutely not in synchronisation with his words. And whilst I believe he did genuinely happen to be a decent bloke caught up in a tricky situation and the love was definitely there, his passivity and inability to just stand up and sort things out and decide what he wants and just go for it are what make him a partial AC and a total EUM – i was waiting for him to make decisions he was clearly unable to make.
I suppose what i’m trying to do now is to pick up the pieces of what’s left of my world. This relationship has left me severely isolated (in the end i couldn’t admit to anyone i was still seeing this guy when he came back the last time, so i lived a double life) and disconnected from myself and scarred. I’m seeing a therapist at the moment to sort things out. I’d like to understand how a seemingly emotionally healthy person like me would get herself into such a mess and then keep banging her head against a wall… Because believe me, I’m under no illusions that I allowed this to happen to me and that whilst he is the EUM/AC, I’m the willing victim who offered myself up on a plate for years. I need to really put all of this to rest before i can even contemplate where to go next – i really would like some time alone but i want to make sure i use it constructively. Any tips on how to go about this?
I keep swinging between the grief of losing the illusion i had about my life (my whole future was envisioned with this relationship in mind if only it became X,Y and Z – he asked me to have “visions of the future to help us focus on getting there” – yet another classic line don’t you think?!?) and relief that i’m free from this constant nightmare of his emotions/words/actions/inactions and his life in general (that’s all we talked about mainly) directing the course of my days and nights.
We’re doing NC forever more – we tried it once a couple of years ago (on his request might i add!) and he then broke it and came back and i gave in – but this time I have done all the necessary cutting of ties the last thing left is changing my phone number – i genuinely believe he will not break it this time as his goodbye was final and he’s still running and will never look back but i’m taking those precautions nonetheless for myself – i want a life without one single trace of him in it. Thankfully we won’t bump into each other i think so we should be ok.
If anyone has any more wise thoughts please feel free – i’ll be visiting this site regularly as part of my “rehabilitation” process 🙂
Thanks for listening!
Afoolby anyother name and any one else seaking to ease their heart… I found this site below, just the first page was very useful. It helped me realize there was love there and that helps in knowing I wasn’t completely duped and used and shifted blaming myself to putting the responsibility squarely where it belongs.
http://www.simplysolo.com/relationships/how_to_spot_a_commitment_phobic.html
De
“I keep swinging between the grief of losing the illusion i had about my life (my whole future was envisioned with this relationship in mind if only it became X,Y and Z – he asked me to have “visions of the future to help us focus on getting there†– yet another classic line don’t you think?!?) and relief that i’m free from this constant nightmare of his emotions/words/actions/inactions and his life in general (that’s all we talked about mainly) directing the course of my days and nights.”
Afool – This hits the nail right on the head. I’m so pissed off that I cant seem to get over this bit. And that whole visions part…when a man tells you to look into the future with him and you set a goal and you take on the world arm in arm to make your perfect life together – you kind of believe that THAT is the plan! I was so enveloped in making our dreams come true that I didnt notice (or perhaps didnt want to admit that I noticed) he was actually bailing. One foot out the door while his lips were flapping lies. What a crummy thing to do to ANYONE!! I try so hard to put myself in his shoes and see me from his eyes…was he thinking “Aw..she tries so hard, how pathetic and desperate” or what!?? It would be really awesome if there was a hypnotist out there that could permanently remove this idiot’s memory from my mind so I could function properly but I know its a necessary process to go through. It just sucks is all.
Afool, the excuses he gave really freaked me out as I’ve heard the EXACT same ones! “You’re the most fabulous woman in the world” Interesting. My new motto is SHOW ME. I’d rather be with a mute who shows me with his actions than a bullshitter who fills my dreams with nothing but words.
NML….Hope you’re feeling better soon
Thanks for comenting on my post Natalie and I hope you fell better soon 🙂 You are spot on,indiference hurts as much as being told nasty words.It makes you fell a nobody and destroy your self esteem.And that certainly isnt something that I want for me.
“I dont understand why you have to love or hate me”
I think this sums it up… they dont want to have you or not have you.. they dont want you to expect anything or go away.. it keeps you right in the middle with nothing… and no responsibility for your hurt feelings.. so wrong.
Ass clown that i dated said in begning ” I donot want to hurt you ” , ” I try everything that u said will help this relationship but you always yell at me” , we breakup after one year of relationship after me giving everything and sacrificing everytime it was too much for me to handle(though i tried to go back to him later), Later he said he want to be friends I said i donot wnat to be friend and his answer to this was ” OK” and left . Frankly saying i was shocked to see he didnot made any any effort at all, didnot even ask why?, he just left. It kindaa explained me wht happen when you ignore red flags and close your eyes and try to see what is not there.
AJ – Sooooo glad i’m not alone with those excuses and the lips flapping lies (lol)… I really fell for it you know, they kept me lured in (he keeps telling me all these amazing things about how unique I am and that i’m the ONE for him – so maybe he’ll fight for me, i’ll be worth the hassle in the end, he’ll just want this badly enough if i give him just one more week/month/year).
I’d love to erase him from my mind too, I keep getting nostalgic and thinking of the future plans we’d made and that now he’s making them with someone else (his ex, who incidentally he lied to as well she knows nothing about me and our time together he was keeping all his options open and decided to go back to her)… BUT… the aim here is to focus on me and not on EUM anymore… it’s just hard, I keep falling into the habit of thinking about him and all of the fictional future things we had planned and i get nostalgic… help surely there’s medicine out there to cure us from this affliction???
My EUM was ‘grieving’ the loss of his wife (married for 10 days before she died, although they were a couple for 8 years) when we met and continued to ‘grieve’ for the 4 years we were together. He was too guilty to do sex, although he could get it up with prostitutes I discovered. He couldn’t live with me as he needed 5 years to get over her death. He couldn’t tell his family, or the family of his late wife, about me, as they might be shocked at his behaviour. I swallowed this, felt his pain and did all I could to be understanding and patient, including moving house and job to be nearer him. I found letters from his wife that showed all these issues we were having were issues for them, too, and they were causing her deep distress – just like they had been for me. His temper (which he said came from guilt over her death) his secrecy, his compartmentalising of the relationship, his witholding sex, the boundaries of his friendships with other women; they were all there and I saw my life flash before my eyes. I decided to check up on some things, as I was increasingly unhappy with and scared by his behaviour, and discovered that the day he took to go away and honour the anniversary of his wifes death he actually met and sh****d another woman. The same woman he had been sh*****g for the time we had been together. He had been blaming all the bad behaviour on his grief and distress when in fact, it meant nothing to him at all. Not only had he been abusing me, he was abusing a dead woman.
3 months after I walked out on him, I agreed to meet him, at his request. I was now in another relationship and very happy. He said he had wanted me to be his wife, that he had been trying to become a better man before he asked me, that I had no integrity and did not understand that relationships needed working on and I had no sense of loyalty! He had no idea that his behaviour was hurtful and felt I was unreasonably upset. He was waiting for me to come back and get the relationship going again. I was the one in the wrong, I had unrealistic expactations and he was prepared to forgive me (forgive me??!!) and have me back.
I just got married. And NOT to that sh*t, either. No, he is now off doing his thing with some other poor unsuspecting woman with bags of sympathy for such a down-trodden and badly-treated man. Who cares? As long as we are prepared to swallow sob stories, as long as we feel we are not worth the love and respect of a genuine person who treats us as a genuine person, too, it will carry on happening. I wish I could warn the Next Victim but I guess she won’t listen, just as I would not have done. She’ll find out in her own good time, sadly.
Thank you for the reply. You are right I would only ever have had 10% honesty from him at any time and that would never be enough.
Can’t understand why I clung on to the illusion for three years!! All I know is that without this site It would have gone on for more years and that doesn’t bare thinking about.
People who haven’t experienced this kind of relationship just think you have lost it! You feel like you have nobody to turn to at times
Your advice and the reasons why we accept poor behaviour from EUM’s along with knowing so many others are going through the same thing help to see things as they are. It has taken time but the penny has dropped at last and I know this is it. I’ve had enough from him or anyone like him. I will work on my boundaries and change to keep out any unhealthy relationships in future.
Thank you so much.
My relationship with an EUM ended 11 days ago when I caught him cheating. In a later email he said: “I didn’t want to hurt you so I didn’t want to end the relationship (before starting another one)”, all the while going through the motions of maintaining the relationship with me.
I found this website that very day and have since downloaded the ebook. I’m so grateful for the people on this website, and to know that I am not alone.
“I would be a great catch for somebody!”……..said to me whilst I had my arm linked in his after we had spent what I thought was a lovely day together.
Like it was acceptable to say this whilst I was at his side? Yes I was hurt but then again we are singing from different hymn sheets.
Would he be a good catch? He is in debt, continually moans about needing to get his life in order but does absolutely nothing about it, talks of wanting to go to Australia but I have more chance of flying to the moon on fairy wings than he does of following it through!
He is one of the biggest assclowns out there and I so need to break free.
My assclown didn’t get me a birthday card for my birthday (first one since my mom passed away) because he was “too busy.” Although he spent the night prior to my birthday watching football.
On my birthday he saw a pretty young girl at a concert we were attending and suggested that he would like the girl for his birthday. When I objected to the comment he told me to “lighten up” because he was joking.
On the day before Thanksgiving, after I went shopping because he had no food in his house, and made him dinner, he berated me in front of his friends for interrupting his drunken buddy who was rambling on and on about the same thing. He also told me he couldn’t stand to be around my “negative energy” so he was taking me back to his house and I couldn’t go out with on the biggest bar night of the year. He said it was because he doesn’t deal with stress as well as I do, and he couldn’t stand to hear both of us talk at the same time (so he went off on me??).
I left and went home (1 1/2 hours away) to my house. Haven’t talked to him since.
Been together 7 1/2 years. So he ruins every holiday with his temper, incl. his own birthdays. Told our couples counselor just recently that he doesn’t think he ever wants to get married, after telling me that it was “on the table.”
Cheated on me (unprotected) in Feb 2008 and that “was just a mistake” and he’s tired of being “crucified” for a “mistake.” Nevermind that we’ve always had off the hook sex as often as he wants.
I think this no contact since Wed. is a good start and I just hope I can continue it forever.
I could stand to lose 20 lbs… maybe even 30 lbs and I KNOW it and am embarrassed about it. So when my current man makes comments like “If you quit drinking beer you’d lose weight”, “What size pants do you wear?”, “Have you gained weight since we started seeing each other?”, “Somebody needs to work out” and I no longer want to get naked in front of him… his defense is to say he wouldn’t love me any more even if I was nice and skinny. So apparently he thinks I’m fat, and I probably am a little fat. I haven’t gotten bigger but I certainly haven’t gotten smaller. I wear a size 14 pants by the way. I get offended, hurt and embarassed by his comments. Thanksgiving I told him to go home and maybe he can find a nice skinny lady in church that doesn’t drink beer.
Now the saddest part is instead of thinking he’s rude I am just plain embarrassed and hurt. He has some habits I don’t particularly like but I don’t point them out to him because as a whole I like him more than I dislike anything about him. Know what I mean? I haven’t talked to him all weekend but he texted me yesterday he missed me. What does he miss? My fat belly? Why would he even want to have sex with me if he thinks I’m fat? I don’t get it.
I want to add that we have talked about getting married, moving to a different part of the state, taking a trip in the Spring. We’ve spent weekends together, had holidays at each other’s family, met each other’s kids. Most of the time he’s very nice to me but every few months he gets into a funk and says he can’t be in a relationship blah blah blah. Then after a few weeks of that he tells me how lonely he is, how much he misses me, how much he likes doing things together. It’s looking like he doesn’t want me as I am now but doesn’t like being alone either. I’m just for comfort, aren’t I? [Damn it anyway!!]
Ashley–
(Your post is no longer available for viewing–?????–but I remember what you wrote the other day.)
You looked squarely at the facts, and got to the right answer: he was an EUM.
On the one hand, he TOLD YOU SO. Period
Also, as to this b.s. about your phone being disconnected: first, there are other ways to communicate, other than the phone, in this world. An outdoorsy-traveler-free-spirit like him knows this better than anyone! So he TOTALLY could have emailed you, or called you at a later time–your phone being disconnected for a short period of time is NO excuse OR justification for the relationship’s end, or for his decision to move. Second, think of it this way: if he really wanted to be with you, he would not have made a big decision (like moving…to a state…on the other coast!) without talking to you first. A move or change of job is a big decision, calling for a state of transition in one’s life. So he even contradicts himself by saying that it’s because of you and your phone being disconnected that “I decided to move to Seattle”!
I went through something like this. (Your post helped me see my experience more clearly, too.) They like hanging their hat on one of YOUR actions to justify their inaction and unavailability, to thus keep their options open (or otherwise do whatever the hell they want to do!) and avoid responsibility for the relationship and/or being (labelled) an asshole!
Little child behavior. NOT the behavior of a grown up!
🙂
Sorry for the repeat posting but I don’t know how to edit my posts.
Last thing — when I say to him “Geez it doesn’t seem that you like me all that much” – he tells me I’m wrong. He tells me he thinks I’m the most real person he’s ever met. He tells me I’m the nicest lady he knows. Calls me sweetie, brings me candy, takes me out to dinner, cooks for me. Then hurts my feelings by grabbing my belly and saying “What is this” and claims he is just teasing me. Maybe he is teasing me… I don’t know.
That is not teasing. That is mean and a low blow.
Miimaa
My ex EUM says things like that to me all the time say god you are putting on weight and hell your a**e is getting big and then calls me sexy bum. Now I just confused or damn right naive does he not like me if so why call me sexy bum? I split up with him at the beginning of the year and lost 20 pounds he wanted me then when I was getting attention offf other guys. But since I go back with him 3 months ago (I know it was stupid getting back with him) I have put on the weight again! I caught him cheating on me on Friday night as I strangely had a dream he was with the woman who obviously he cheats on me with every Friday night (yeah I believe your story that you have gone home) NOT. I rang at 1.30am and a woman answered and said hello then put the phone down obviously only answered so I knew he was with her. Anyway I have changed my number straight away so he can’t get in touch it is the only way to get these guys out of your life! If I had the same number I would have been getting withheld calls off him today saying why arnt I talking to him. I feel sick to my stomach and can’t stop crying but I was crying the whole time I was with him and more so on the iside becasue I had a feeling he was cheating on me all along.
Question is why did he come to my house like 3 or 4 nights during the week then on a Friday and Saturday I didn’t see him for dust. I mean obvs he has been with her but why go and get sex with a woman who is alot older the me, scruffy, unemployed, bar whore. He could come to mine and as sad as its sounds have sex with me so whats so great about her on a Friday and Saturday night?
Any clrity would help me greatly.
Nat xx
“This is assclown Jeopardy. Madeamistake, please make a selection.”
Made: “Alex, I’ll take EUM oldies but goodies for $200 please.”
Alex: “Alright. This EUM line goes…”I am a complete idiot–will you wait for me to get my act together?”
Made: ” Alex, What is “Even though you’ve told me you’re done with me, I really hope I can get you into the sack again by saying these lines to keep you hooked?”
Alex: “Correct, Madeamistake–please select another clue.”
Made: “Alex, let’s go for Assclown Lore for $200.”
Alex: In this famous lore, Adam the Assclown doesn’t call, e-mail or text for weeks, but then reappears through an e-mail or text to say “Really miss talking to you and seeing you.”
Made: “What is my new girlfriend finally dumped me?”
Alex: Correct! You’re on a roll Made–continue.
Made: Alex, let’s go back to EUM oldies but goodies for $1,000.
Alex: Ah…the Daily Double. This oldie, but goodie goes something like this–“I didn’t want to hurt you, but we’ve been together for WAY too long and I just couldn’t lose you either–you know I care about you more than anyone.”
Made: “What is ‘I don’t want you but I certainly don’t want anyone else to want you either?”
Alex: Fantastic Madeamistake!!! You are our new Assclown Jeopardy champion! Congratulations!
@Madeamistake That’s probably one of the best comments I have ever read! Superb! You have captured the essence of the inconsistency of these guys. I’m glad you see him for what he is! Don’t let his word ever drag you into his emotionally vacant cesspool ever again! You may have made a mistake but I doubt you’ll make it again because you see him clearly for the user that he is.
Madeamistake, that was absolutely f**king BRILLIANT!!! Well done and really gets the point across!
Yes, sooooo much fun..had a great laugh, and right on the money!… thanks so much for that!! 🙂
My ex cheated on my the entire time I was pregnant, left me at 7 mos, moved in w/the OW, tried to come home to me a week before the baby was born–and thats when the OW called me to inform me he had been cheating on me. I had thought he left me because he was “scared”. He and she stated the he “wasnt in love with me”…so I guess that makes it okay in their minds. he also told me to “get over it” a week after my baby was born so he could spend *more time with our daughter at my house*…they are living happily ever after now while I get no financial support and raise my daughter solo.
Thank you so much NML! He is desperate but I’m not! I need nothing from him. He can play his little headgames with some other poor woman.
Miimaa and Natthecat
I experienced something very much like this behaviour when the AC and I were ‘together’. It was always dressed up as joking behaviour but it hurt me, and I didn’t make the same sort of ‘jokes’ to him.
Then I learned about verbal abuse – and it’s exactly this sort of stuff. It doesn’t have to be screaming name calling abuse, more a subtle drip, drip as your self esteem is slowly eroded. It’s soul destroying and I suggest you Google it (don’t think Natalie has written about this but I coud be wrong)
.-= sadthing´s last blog ..When Mr Unavailable’s and assclowns use ridiculous statements to justify their poor behaviour =-.
Yeah it was the same for me emotional abuse, blackmailing me, calling me names and when I took offense used to say ‘ i was only joking’ ‘why can’t you take a joke’. I have had good solid relationships and none of them made jokes about my weight, clothes, make up, hair style need I go on? At the moment I am just trying to get my self esteem back which is proving very hard! Sad thing is these men must have very little self esteem to do this to a woman.
Thank you sadthing. It sure is strange behavior. Sometimes he can be very sweet… that is what is so confusing. He has his own issues that have nothing to do with me anymore. A close, loving and positive relationship with him is just not in the cards.
6 weeks NC. So anyone have any idea when he’ll move out of my mind? Its highly annoying. This jerk set up a cranium camp and I believe he’s telepathetically trying to communicate with me.
My ex told me he wasn’t ready to be in a committed relationship and had to just “stay friends” for now but insisted I can’t cut out of his life completely because he cares so much for me. He then proceeded to call and email every week for the last 10 weeks; most of which ended with him saying honey I miss you, I’ve been thinking about you etc. which has been very conflicting and painful, and it’s left me very confused. To make things worse, last week he wrote me to tell me, after I told him to be consistent and stop mucking me around, that (to paraphrase) he knew I knew he was a great guy even though he sounds confused or selfish at times! WTF.
My EUM talked the talk like no-one else (never loved anyone like you, want to marry you, move in, have baby etc) but his ACTIONS never matched his words. He limited his time with me to one night every 9 days, kept me a secret from his estranged wife and kids the entire relationship (a year) and made little digs about my weight every time I ate chocolate/some chips. I don’t have a weight problem, I am fairly slim, so when he compared me to an overweight colleague and I pulled him up on it he said: “Oh for god’s sake I am only joking! you are not fat so how can you take me seriously?” Doesn’t matter…still f***d with my head and made me feel paranoid. I finished with him last week because of how little he was seeing me and the fact he kept me a secret. I told him he had treated me like a total mug. His response? a six-page text about how everything was MY fault. How I was EMOTIONALLY DRAINING (we had a lot of ‘discussions’ about his behaviour) and he was going through a divorce, i didn’t support him, blah blah blah. Boo f***king hoo. I am 31 and can’t believe I wasted so much time on this man….but at least I’m now freee……………
I would like your thoughts on this. I had mentioned this one earlier, but it got worse.
I went on three dates with this guy (it had gotten heavy second base physical), and then I did not hear from him for 9 days. When he finally reached out to me, it was with a very casual text asking what was new. Since I could tell he was not really stepping up, I was furious. I calmed myself down and sent a response two days later saying I was having a nice holiday and wishing all was well with him.
10 days later he calls, but does not leave a message. So I do not call him back because this is more of the lukewarm behavior and I figure he will call me back if he is interested. I would have called back had there been a message.
So here comes NYE. My mutual friend tells me he will be at the party we are going to. I look amazing and look forward to catching up with him and clarifying why he called.
Well, what happened was this. From across the room, I smiled and waved. He smiled and gave me a head bob. I then stood in the same area for 25 minutes and you know what, he never came over. The party was then getting broken up. I was devastated and upset because I did not understand why he was still in contact with me when he was clearly lukewarm, and I thought he would at least be civil. We left the party and I thought I would go home and lick my wounds, but our mutual friend saw how upset I was.
He then texted her asking her where she was and who she was with. She then responded with – ” I am with M., who you apparently did not bother talk to at the party.” Then he responded with “I was in the middle of a conversation and then we left” AND he said something about It not needing to be awkward. Or it being awkward, anyhow, he brought in the word awkward.
I have two male friends and they say this is total bull, he had no intention of talking to me and that he felt weird so he acted like a coward.
I did not make it awkward, I tried to open the door for us to at least be civil. Now I am not happy my friend stepped in, but at least she called him on his crap. The fact that he asked who she was with and that he got so defensive shows me that he knew exactly what he was doing. He did not want to talk to me, and instead of manning up, he made a lame excuse.
What does everyone think? Am I out of my mind? I just wanted to go home and lick my wounds. He had proven once again that he was just lukewarm and did not care about how I might be feeling, like his actions had no consequences.
What is worse, is I almost contacted him to apologize for my friend’s stepping in. They guy has shown me over and over that his communication skills are poor, and I almost apologized.
Michelle,
This guy is a jerk and very very probably an abuser, he is coward and if he was feeling awkward and didn’t communicate or try, then cut your losses. He is also plaaying you to get you to the chasing!! eeewww the worst red flag and truly make this a deal breaker!
Oh and just ask yourself… do you want an honorable man or a dishonorable man…which one is he?
Good luck.
I’ve just been down this exact road..only he ws a friend of seven years, I did’nt call him once and he still led me on a merrydance of waiting for his call. As long as you are thinking of him, he wins! sooo sick!
Michelle, better if you add your story in the Forum and have many responses…Thanks God, you had only three dates with this loser, he doesnt deserve you, and he showed his “true colours” straightaway…Even if he calls or texts you, please ignore him!!!
It’s always interesting to seeing how different people rationalize different things. Both genders are guilty of this and find different ways of doing it. It’s apparent when reading through the different perspectives and opinions that the users on our site post. These things are root of why men and women are so different and also the reason why opening up more communication between the two sexes will make it easier for both sides to understand each other. Great post tho!
De-lightedtobefree–
Hi.
Michelle’s guy is DEFINITELY a jerk, a coward, and someone who wants to be chased. But an abuser? On what facts do you base this opinion?
Also, for sure he wanted to meet up with the mutual friend–as long as Michelle wasn’t around. So he is 2-faced: he is one way when Michelle is around, and another way when she is not. Telltale signs of a player and a dishonorable “man”.
BTW, Michelle, you have very good guy friends. They are dead-on in their judgment. AND don’t blame (or get mad at) your friend for what happened. She actually helped you out, in proving that this guy is a coward, a jerk, a Loser, etc.
Also, I think he probably had an ex or two in the room, as well.
Bad that you went to the party (you showed too much interest). Good that you got some info./facts out of it, In any event, this guy is a jerk for leaving you hanging. Good guys don’t do that!
Maybe he called you to see if you were going to that party! To prep himself. All for selfish reasons.
Jerk.
Hi used…
The fact he was intimate with Michelle and didn’t call for 9 day’s is an act of passive aggression… passive aggression is an act of abuse… leaving some-one hanging, calling and not leaving a message, typical AC behaviour to gauge if you are the girl who will put up with shit and do the work in the relationship. This guy is obviously looking for someone to abuse and he is testing Michelle’s waters. CREEP!! Not communicating after closeness… ignoring after being intimate, being ambigious, vague, unavailable in proximity. Devalueing someone and then discarding them is not an act of care, honesty, or good behaviour. Gee whizz, I’d say the guy has been pretty abusive. Emotional abuse is the destroyer here. How’s your self esteem Michelle?? Cowards and jerks are nasty peices of work. They scare me.
How horrid to have him call her friend to hang out only if Michelle wasn’t there, Jaayysuus…Ouch! I think my self esteem would be pretty bruised (as in abused!!) If that aint a punch in the ole solar plexus.. what is!?? If it doesn’t feel good…what is it??
Of course I could be projecting and the guy is an honrable guy and just forgot to call after being intimate, felt embarrassed for not calling when he saw her at the party…OH BOY, the excuses I could make for this guy…cause I’ve been there and made them before. I prefer the other scenario..the realistic one, just so I can keep hold of some pride and sanity.
As I say…just been through this whoooole scenario.. I did not play his game, but watched as the game unfolded, as he tried every trick in the book to keep me as the ‘abused girl’, when he realized I was NOT playing his game it went right down the road to the new girlfriend and the crocodile tears at losing me. And he said through his tears ‘I’ve lost you’ and I said ‘yes, you have’, his reply ‘well you’ve lost me too’. the only thing I lost was someone who abused me.
Michelle, laugh my dear… you have been spared.
Used, am I wrong??? And if I am just projecting my fears onto Michlles scenario it is because I saw the red flags and walked through the rest of the story. The story ends in abuse!
xx to you both 🙂 De
Sorry didn’;t get to edit in time..excuse spelling 🙂
Thanks for all the responses.
Firstly, I was going to the party before he was, so I do not know how that is too much interest. And when at the party, I smiled and waved, I did not approach him or chase him. I have no idea why he was calling.
Secondly, in all fairness, he is not a player, he is a coward yes, and deeply immature and a jerk, but this is more inexperience than anything else, and being deeply self centered. He is not at a place in his life where he considers that his actions have ramifications.
My mutual friend said he only has dated women for a month or two, and my guess is that this might be why.
Michelle,
you sound like you are taking care of yourself and understand it’s his behaviour that is questionable and has little to do with you.. and thats the best news 🙂
NEXT!! 🙂
De
When he didn’t show up for general plans to meet up: “I didn’t think you’d actually be there.”
When he asked me out then stood me up: ‘Sorry about yesterday – can I make it up 2 u’ [via text message the next day]
When I called him out on his shennanigans: ‘You’re the one that’s hard to figure out! I’ve never had a girl play as hard to get as you!’
Final straw was after agreeing to ‘be straight’ (his actual words) with one another, three days later he is blowing off my calls & texts like old times. I am officially & totally done with him now. All contact is over. The only thing that sucks is that I have to drive by his house on a daily basis. Damn small town living.
Michelle–
So it sounds like you know as a fact that he knew you were going to this party. (Your image, to him, is better this way, than if you went because you knew he was there. That’s good, of course.)
How old is this guy? Is he in a business (like information technology) where he doesn’t interact with too many people? Sounds like one of those i.t. idiots who is trying to make up for lost time with women! (And/or a gay, or misogynistic, guy. Definitely a guy with issues as to women. Even if they may be minor, as in the case where he is just too immature.) Maybe he still lives at home with his mother–or just left mama!
Whether he wanted this to go further but only if you did all the work/chasing, or whether de did not want to go out with you again at all, this guy is an insensitive idiot. Who thinks everyone will let things roll.
You should not have smiled and waved. This guy deserves to be told off–to be told that he is an asshole and an idiot.
This is where the friend is not so much a friend. She should not even be talking to the guy, after the way he treated you! At least from now on, she shouldn’t!
De–
O.K, you win: there is an element of abuse here.
BUT he is also playing hard to get, too. If it were a woman doing this, a man would call her “hard to get”. (HOWEVER, a woman playing hard to get wouldn’t place a call and not make it/leave a message. Still, this is “feminine”/effeminate behavior this guy is displaying. Woman-influenced. Hence the mama’s boy analogy.) In any case, this guy’s actions/games spell “total turn-off”. Also, yes, a total bruise to a woman’s sense of self-worth. (There lies the abuse.) Better to have seen this early on, as you say!
Used,
It is my understanding that he did not know I would be at the party. He had not asked my friend before, and she had not told him, as far as I know. Besides, our last interaction was him calling and me not calling back, so I was ok from a reputation standpoint.
As to my friend, she knows he behaved like and ass, and I too have male friends who behave like asses, but I do not stop being friends with them. They have a long friendship, and I do not begrudge her that. I think she feels like he is stuck being 20, not the 28 year old man he actually is.
He works in banking on the research side, his friends are all single, and he is surrounded by men whose maturity level is really limited. He moves every year. That seems weird too, but my glass house is not so fantastic!
De,
I do not consider this guy an abuser. We have not been that intimate. Yes, we had been a little intimate, but only tops off etc. I do think he should have cut it off or disappeared completely (not a great option, but better than the fishing expedition).
He is clearly very immature, but he did not abuse me. He treated me with no consideration for consequences or feelings, and was a coward, but it was not abuse.
Besides, what goes around, comes around, and he is loosing out on very cool women with his behavior.
I love your strength Michelle!! Yes he will lose every cool girl with his behaviour and will no doubt get a reputation to go along with it if he doesn’t learn some manners 🙂 Sadly he may do more damage if he doesn’t learn how to end something he’s started, especially if he does this with someone who doesnt have the confidence and self esteem you have to see the signs.
De
Thank you for this site…it has saved my life. I can now see clearly where my moral compass went haywire and the consequences to my life of not having seen this assclown for who he really was. I have Tiger Woods to thank for finally seeing his “type” and all the women who allow this type of behavior to continue. Oh my goodness. I am so glad I got my life back at 45 rather than at 65. It is never too late to find your heart again and the man who will truly take proper care of it. 5 years later and a story that would curl a sane person’s toes prepared me for any man that eventries to pull this typw of b.s. on me again. Yes. When you are in love, you don’t see it. But this site opened my eyes. For good.
This post really stuck out at me. Thank God that I am on my 7th week of NC to my ass clown who was very much an emotional abuser which explains the day that I went NC and cut him out of my life for good; he tried to harm me with his words and degrading comments on my voicemail by calling me a fat Bitch..(I’m slim). Just reading other people’s comments on this post make me realize what I was really dealing with. Finally feeling free; whole and happy again. Free at last; free at last is all that I can say!! Good luck ladies…