Being let off the hook is about being released out of what could be an unpleasant or at the very least difficult situation, or being released out of something that we don’t want to do. When we feel that we or someone is on the hook for something, it’s fundamentally tied to a sense of obligation, after all, if we didn’t feel that we or they were duty bound to do something, we’d opt out without fanfare. The decision to step away wouldn’t be laden with such turbulent emotions and even a fear of appearing forgiving.
Two scenarios in life are likely to hold on tight to the negativity even if it’s near killing us to do so:
#1 We do something that affects us in such a major way that we feel that it’s too big to let go. We feel so angry and even ashamed about where we feel that we’ve erred that we relive it and critique ourselves for it as often as needed, just in case we forget and eff up all over again. Our inner critic berates and punishes us under the misguided impression that we will be prevented from whatever it fears for us. It then becomes that we won’t be self-compassionate and forgive ourselves because we think that we’re taking the easy way out. We feel that we haven’t served a long enough sentence.
#2 Somebody burns us and we feel so angry, hurt, and sad, that it becomes our purpose and security blanket. We either chase them for their remorse debt like a bailiff or we make it our vocation to change this person or to prove ourselves worthy of their better selves because not doing so has us afraid that 1) we’ll look like a fool and that 2) we’ll be making life too easy for them. We then feel obliged to pursue this person for what we feel is a suitable response because otherwise, we then feel that we’ve failed in our obligation to ourselves. Unfortunately, trying to make sure that they stay on the hook can cost us our dignity because we often end up saying and doing things that we later come to regard as at best embarrassing and at worst, humiliating.
We forget that while we could try to get them to say or do certain things to help us feel better, how we feel about this situation is in our command. I’m not suggesting that remorse doesn’t help and I think most of us have felt a brief satisfaction from seeing someone who has wronged us squirm, but ultimately a lot of improving the way that we feel and releasing ourselves from the anger, hurt and sadness is about what we think and tell ourselves.
If we tell ourselves that we’re not worth a damn or that we’re a fool or whatever, that is about our response.
The reality is that whether we let ourselves down or others do, the human response is to experience a myriad of emotions and to experience what may be self-defeating thoughts. No one is capable of being confident and happy all of the time and as humans, we all struggle on some level with criticism, conflict, disappointment, and rejection. What takes these aspects of life to a new level though, is when we drag it out and persecute ourselves.
It feels as if somebody has to pay for it. When it’s us, our belief system tells us that when you eff up, that makes us faulty, an eff up, and a failure. We may have grown up believing that making mistakes is “bad”, or reasoning that other people’s behaviour was a reflection of our inadequacies.
When we feel that the other party has to pay for it, often it’s because we feel so bad that the last thing that we want to be feeling is that they’re skipping through the happy meadow of life without a care in the world. We take it very personally if for instance, the other party appears to have moved on or isn’t as bothered as we would like them to be. “Hold up a feckin’ second here!”, we think. “I’m a feckin’ wreck. I can’t eat, I can’t sleep, and when I tried to go on a date, I sobbed into my food at the dinner table and made a holy show of myself! They’re posting pictures of themselves on Facebook swinging out of their new guy/girl! This is so unfair!”
This feels even worse if the other party was shady. We wonder how they can be a complete ratbag and here we are being our decent and loving selves, alone / hurting / miserable.
In recognising this, it’s understandable to give over some energy to raking over what happened and thinking about what we or they coulda/woulda/shoulda done but the pain really kicks in when we get hooked on this sense of obligation.
We are not obliged to punish ourselves to the end of time. I hear from people who due to a bad romance, a mistake or what they perceive as a failure, they’ve been serving a sentence for years. There are people committing serious crimes who do less time than what some of us sentence ourselves to for what we feel are our flaws, faults, and f*ck ups.
Is it fair and reasonable to base our self-esteem and whether we feel we have the right to move on and live, on a rejection or disappointment? Is it fair to keep ourselves on the hook because of our past response to something?
We also don’t own people nor are we their judge, jury, or a higher power that decides their fate. Is it worth it to keep a foothold in someone’s life while holding onto anger, blame etc, just to ensure that they’ve been suitably punished?
When we obsess over keeping people on the hook, we keep ourselves on the hook too.
We cannot control the uncontrollable so short of trying to influence and control their feelings by force (boundary busting alert), the person who really ends up being held prisoner by what happened, is us. That, and in recognising that letting someone off the hook is about releasing them out of something that they don’t want to do, why the hell do we want to hang around trying to forcefeed decency or a better perception of us on someone?
Letting go doesn’t mean that you’ve forgotten about the lesson you learned; it can mean that you’re finally ready to apply the insights you gained in a positive manner so that you can move forward. It can simply mean that you accept that you’re human, that you err, and that you’re ready to forgive you. When you genuinely feel bad about something and have been willing to have an honest conversation with you that allows awareness and compassion into the equation, it’s not that you will never err again (human alert) but you won’t be going down that same path again.
There are people who let themselves off the hook because they lack the empathy to actually consider another person’s feelings or to have an honest account of themselves. Some quite simply keep jabbing The Reset Button until they’ve distanced themselves as far away from reality as possible. You trying to keep them on the hook won’t change the fact that they lack empathy and/or that they’re deluded and avoidant. By the time they’re finished with the mind effery or pulling a Houdini, you will put you on the hook for their behaviour. Own your own and let others own theirs.
If you’re worried that you’re letting you off the hook too soon, you only need to worry about this if you’re repeating the pattern but you need to change the meaning of what keeping you on the hook means. You are under obligation to take care of you – where else is your self-esteem going to come from? – but instead of making it about an obligation to punish you, what you need to ensure is that when you move forward, you move forward with awareness. When we touch the surface and then bury our heads in blame or even fantasy, it’s only a matter of time before we slip into old ways and that’s when we become super frustrated with ourselves and end up berating us for having the past on repeat.
Sometimes we’re so busy persecuting ourselves over a situation that didn’t go as we hoped or expected, that we don’t see the bigger picture of how that door closing paves the way to another opening. But we have to allow that door to close first. Let the latch off the hook.
Your thoughts?
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Often I made the decision to stay with my EU married AC because I’d already invested so much I hated to throw it away with no return on my investment. Then I realized I’d made a bad, really bad, investment so I changed my thinking and accepted that I’d bought and paid for a really good lesson: if they seem shady and their words don’t match their actions–close enough. It’s time to go.
I dont think Karen could have said it any better. She has just also descriped some very bad financial decisions I have also made myself with absolutely no return on the investments. When I look back at the bad investments now I am glad I didnt receive any returns. If it wasnt for Natalie’s post and hearing the other readers views I might just nearly have recently made another bad investment. Fortunately after numerous months of reading Natalie’s brilliant insight,I could see straight through EU and yes I am married AC (but wait. It was the typical story.) “My wife is more like a friend now. Nothing ever goes on between us. I just want to be with you babe”(till the next sucker comes along anyway) blah blah. Anyway I decided not to go ahead with the investment. The interest rate was way off.
One of my favorite song writers wrote:
“It took awhile to understand the beauty of just letting go.”
by Patty Griffin from Let Him Fly.
So true. When I finally just ‘let go’ after a soul wrecking four year struggle with an abusive man, I felt the sky open, a huge weight lifted off my shoulders and the colors in my world got brighter. I won’t lie, it was painful at the same time, but the sense of freedom and relief that came with it was like finally being able to take a deep breath being suffocated. It is a first step in loving yourself and gaining back self respect. The hardest and best thing I ever did for myself.
This gives me hope. I have stayed NC, but there have been weak moments when I want to hear from him. This encourages me to keep hanging on to my resolve and find myself again.
I’ve been reading baggage reclaim for a year now and each post seems to hit home. Today’s post though really turned a light switch on. For almost a year and a half I have punished myself feeling that I failed somehow in my last relationship. I haven’t been able to let go of where I went wrong. Over analyzing the relationship from beginning to end and yet deep down a part of me knows it was not all my fault. He moved on in less than 2 weeks of the breakup after a 3.5 year relationship. Fed me the lines of “not in love with you anymore” and how the breakup should have happened sooner and that he wasn’t happy for a long time. Threw me in the friend zone the last 6 months prior to the breakup and eff’d with my head with telling me he did see a future with us yet his actions showed otherwise. I took the breakup pretty hard and felt even more disrespected when it was done over the phone. Told me I deserved a proper explanation yet each time I initiated contact to get that explanation, he would either yell at me or tell me he wasn’t ready to see me yet. Told me he wanted to write me a letter so that he could express himself better and like a fool, I waited for over a year for that letter that till today I have not received. I should be glad he’s out of my life, but somehow I’ve allowed myself to feel responsible for the breakup. If only I had listened more when he spoke, if only I had not gotten upset each time he treated me like a buddy instead of a girlfriend in front of his friends, if only I never got upset each time he wanted to hang with his buddy instead of me and if only I never pushed in wanting an answer as to whether our relationship was heading to another level. Alot of what if’s and shoulda, coulda would have’s. It’s obvious he had made a decision that I was not the one for him, and he found all the negative things about me to throw in my face as to why he had detached himself from the relationship. After reading this post I realized I’ve only been hurting myself. I allowed his negative perception of me affect my self esteem and my confidence. His opinion of me should not matter. He’s been living his life while I’ve been wallowing in pain and thinking I ruined something wonderful.
This post really resonated with me too! Four years in, and I kept scratching my head why he didn’t love me?, why did he treated me like a “friend” sometimes, and a “girlfriend” other times, but would not EVER give me the title and certainly never said those 3 little words. Come close, stay with me, not TOO close, I don’t want “long term with you”, I miss you, don’t date others, round and round. I took whatever came my way.. and gave and gave and gave thinking it would change.. that HE would change. I felt f’d up, flawed, small and it ate at my self-esteem terribly until it was pretty much shriveled down to nothing. “I” hurt me by leaving it on the hook too long! Why should his opinion, lack of loving, back and forth, etc. affect me? I’m tired of giving him (or anyone else) reason to pity me, and/or point out all my “flaws.” That sucks, it’s unnecessary pain, and it stops here today. One of the best things Natalie EVER said was, “he’s NOT that special”.
Thank you so much for this post. I have spent a lot of time torturing myself over the choices that I’ve made and recently I made a commitment to enjoy where I am and indulge in thinking about what I really want. I journaled, posted quotes and pictures, all about my ideal relationship. I got used to it. I acclimated myself to the scary idea that I deserved it even though my mom didn’t get it and my exes convinced me I didn’t deserve it. I just kept exposing myself to the reality where I had an amazing partner. I am now dating someone who treats me 100% how I want to be treated. No mind games, no BS, just flowers and kisses and snuggles. I am now realizing I let myself off the hook! Sometimes I feel guilt, shame, or creeping thoughts of some kind of betrayal of an ex or past self, and so I really, really needed to read this to keep my eyes facing forward. Thank you so much!!!
That’s inspiring, Tangerine. It reminds me what a friend once told me – if she ever feels that she’s missing out and that others have it all, instead of feeling sorry for herself, she writes down what she really wants, what kind of relationship etc., and it makes her feel better.
I think I still don’t believe I deserve it – even though all the other parts of my life are transformed I can’t seem to transform this belief. I’m at least keeping a persistent EUM away, telling him I’m only interested in a proper relationship. I feel good about it but also have that feeling that something about me isn’t ‘relationship material’. I’m now going to hit the journal whenever I have these thoughts. Thanks!
By coincidence, I saw this article today and think it’s helpful
It suggests instead of simply visualising, you think of the best outcome, then the obstacle (the problem within that holds you back), then plan what to do about the obstacle. It’s pretty similar to Nat’s worksheets about transforming beliefs from what I remember.
Wow, Tangerine, your story is so inspiring. I also came from a dysfunctional family and my Mom had low self esteem and was a victim of emotional abuse. I´m 30 now and just really beginning to see that my seeking out EUs is, ironically, a security blanket. I´ve felt like this was where I was supposed to be because it was the role I knew how to play.
I have just accepted the fact (after 2 years!!) that my current partner is the same man with a different face. Though he´s a far better partner and person than my string of (almost exclusively EU) other boyfriends, the facts of the case remain the same. In this case, rather than put me down and say I´m not measuring up, this one tells me I´m perfect, best person he knows, cares about more than anyone… etc. But it doesn´t matter. He blows from hot to ice cold with no warning, can´t commit, and won´t open up or compromise. It´s his way or the highway, literally. So, highway it is.
Any advice on how you took those first steps? I´d really like to hear more of your story. I am at the point where I don´t blame myself and I can see that I am loveable… but I clearly am still having trouble putting that into action in my romantic life.
I have realized the same as you Maria. My guy is probably the best out of the EU bunch in many ways but won’t commit, won’t tell me he loves me, won’t open up, etc. in the meantime I am getting hot and cold too.
Every time I have brought it up he swears I am misinterpreting his actions. That he wouldn’t be with me if he didn’t want me, etc. yet can’t compromise – he just makes excuses and blame shifts.
I finally realized I need to take the highway too. Now I am just trying to get the guts to tell him as I live with him.
Anon,
This sounds like my ex. Exactly word for word,”If I didn’t want to be with you, I wouldn’t be with you.”
Leave him. Take a year off for yourself. It is worth it. I couldn’t leave but I provoked him to break up with me. I put the ultimatum, “Are we together or not?” by the 1-year term of the relationship. He bailed out. Had I not asked this might have stretched out for few months more and bring me more pain later on.
Now, looking back 10 months later I am so glad this is over. I find myself in a much happier, content, and peaceful place. Like never before.
Walk away, Anon. This guy seems like pain and hurt. I don’t feel anything positive here from what you are saying.
Sofia- thank you for the pep talk. I tried the ultimatum actually act week. I told him I can go on like this so I need either total commitment and openness or I need to step down to friends or roommates. He chose to step up (which I think is just blowing hot until I calm down).
He has improved in certain ways like he started eating dinner with me. And started more face time. But I got pretty pissed at him last week which is when I broke up with him in my head. I’ve gone cold. I’m now just trying to muster up the courage to tell him since I have Basically frozen up every time I try to initiate a break up talk. Him living in my house it’s sort of important.
I got mild food poisoning last week and was having trouble sitting and standing up without breaking into chills or a sweat. He ignored me the entire day! Didn’t help me at all get ready for work or my child ready for school except for one task I had to specifically ask for. Then no calls or texts of anything asking how I was doing. He just fed me a pile of excuses that I know are complete bs.
That’s the moment I KNEW he doesn’t really care about me. Just about the fringe benefits.
Anon, why it is important for you that he still lives in your house? I think he needs to be kicked out. From what I hear he is nothing but pain. Are you not breaking up with him because you think he might change?
Sofia – It’s a financial thing. On top of that there layoff rumors at my work so I’m afraid to touch my savings. Wages have gone down in my area due to an influx of visas so there are many people who will take my job for a fraction of what I get paid for a visa.
I’m wishing I would have kept my old place because the pricing was good for me and they didn’t raise rents while you lived there. Rents have gone up so much in the last year here even if I break my lease, I don’t see anything much cheaper in a decent neighborhood. I know I could get a roommate but I also have children and don’t want to share my space with strangers. At least he’s someone that hides in the spare room when I’m home and I trust him enough not to steal, bring strange people over, etc. On top of that I live in a location where I have to pay child support even though I have my kids and I’m responsible for it if I have a job or not.
I’ve been debating whether the freedom if it worth the potential financial issues it could cause.
Having said that doesn’t mean I want him… Just trying to look at it logically too.
Anon, I am sorry… That’s a difficult situation to be in. I hope things will improve for you soon. Maybe you can find a decent roommate you can trust. I understand how difficult it can be and you have to do sometimes what you don’t want to do. I am a single mom, so I know how that goes.
Anon – OMG! He didn’t help you at all while sick? If you know he is blowing hot with temporarily stepping it up why stay? I agree with Sofia. He needs to be kicked out. He’s also not setting a great example for your daughter.
sorry I just saw your post about it being a financial thing. I lean towards freedom is more worth it. And good suggestion from Sofia. Find someone who you trust that could be your roommate and kick the punk out!
I thank GOD for you Nat. This all sooo true we hold ourselves hostage. I just want to say I’m so Free from my self-induced torture. And it’s safe to say the AC-EUM no longer has a hold on me. If it wasn’t for BR, I would still be holding on for dear life and probably would’ve been headed to my own mental death row. Thanks Nat for another great Post!
I agree with Janice. If it wasn’t for this site I would still be with my last boyfriend. A married man who was an alcoholic, had a gambling problem, and was verbally abusive to me.
I kept trying to figure out why I wasn’t happy. I even started to take meds to deal with my panic attacks. I kept trying to figure out why he would not get a divorce so I could have him all to myself. Whew, dodged that bullet.
But this site opened my eyes. What part of the problem was his, and what part of the problem was mine. I owned up to my part and took responsibility for my own happiness. Believe it or not leaving him was incredibly hard, but like an operation I had to endure some temporary pain, then start to heal, and then slowly regain my health and well being.
I read this blog several times every day during the whole process. I also read every one of her books and took the Self Esteem class. But it was also the comments of the women here that helped give me support and you all cheered me on as I finally broke free.
It has been almost 7 months of NC. My life is more peaceful. I am calm. I am happier. I am taking good care of myself. And, (coincidentally?) I am now dating a very nice man. He treats me the way a woman ought to be treated. I wake up now with a smile on my face after a night of good sleep instead of a panic attack in the middle of the night following nightmares.
Ladies, listen to the wisdom of this blog. Listen to Nat. Learn from each other. Listen to your heart AND your head. Listen to your body. Your body will always be honest with you.
Thanks for everything, Nat!
That’s were I am and I’m trying to let myself go off the hook, it’s hard once it has become a habit and that attachment is so deep and strong.My Mr. EUMM has a foot in my life like no other has, first experience like this, but thanks to Nat and her deep insight about this devastating subject about unavailability I’m getting stronger by the day.
I so far have slapped myself on the face so hard so that the rose colored fantasy glasses fell off and I see with more clarity this insanity is taking me no where but to more hurt and emptiness.
I don’t want his validation anymore and don’t want to compete with what he has at home, don’t need that he can keep it.
More and more I see the pattern clearly, that of my father who physically and verbally abused me and my siblings , I see how it affected my way to relate to men and same with my brothers with women, it seems as if it affects the same way in life to those exposed to this cruel and careless unloving treatment to us humans. The more I did to please my father and make him proud of me the more he would abuse us then the harder I kept trying I don’t recall once in my entire like an “I love you” from him sad very sad and scared for life
I apologize if my ideas are all over the place :(….
I’m now re directing the focus on myself, what makes me happy and validate myself, I want so much to go back to who I was; bubbly and full of life…. Someone here said “”” I don’t want to be that woman who hides behind the trees and no body knows”… No I don’t hurts like hell.
time to tell my EUMM I cannot drive this weekend to come see him to Canada , can’t happen need to cut him loose…..please all BR sister hood, pray for me, someone please come tide me to a chair and hide my cell phone cos I know how weak I get every time he calls and wants to get his way….( slaps herself on the face again, with a chair)
Sighs…
It is so true when living your live stressing yourself on what other people do and they have achieved. We take a lot of our time concentrating on other people’s successes than ours. The problem is the why he/she can do it and I can’t. You never look and find out how they did it and you never believed you can do it.
So you keep on blaming and hating other people for their successes and put your life on hold because of jealousy and lack of self-esteem. Be happy for other people’s successes and you’ll so your coming unnoticed and unexpected.
Concentrating on building your life and succeeding in your life and let other go on with their lives without interference will make your heart heal.
I have been constantly beating myself up for the last 6 months since my EU and I broke up. We made a decision to terminate a pregnancy last year, which ultimately led to the final demise of the relationship earlier this year… This and other issues such as fear of commitment (on both our sides) have come up in the past few months, but I cannot seem to let myself off the hook for my part in this decision.
I am constantly feeling guilty and depressed thinking of the baby we lost as a result of the fear I had, and I cant move past this.
My EU has moved on with his life (whilst still pulling me in at the most inconvenient times) and I let him because I feel like I have not suffered enough for the mistake I made last year.
I need some advice on how to forgive myself as I cant seem to move past this and I feel so lost and unable to move forward with my life? Help?
Bec
This douche had commitment issues; he was going to abandon you anyway. Had you not terminated the pregnancy, he would’ve abandoned you pregnant or with an infant to raise. No innocent child deserves that. Having been thrust into the motherhood role at a really early age (raised a bro at 17) I can tell you single motherhood is a damned hard job, 24/7 with no time off. Sorry to be so harsh but you’ve dodged a huge bullet.
Noquay, I agree with you. A person who runs away from responsibility is not someone you can trust and rely on. They are not committed to anything or anyone. I think that a man who is responsible, even if he does not want to continue the relationship, he will take on the responsibility for the child, even if financially only. Terminating “the problem” is not a mature, responsible way out. Which applies to me as well, now that I look at the entire situation with a different set of mind.
Bec, I think you might consider counseling. Its possible that you havent let yourself grieve over your loss which has nothing to do with him – even if you had stayed together, the loss of the pregnancy is a loss. Perhaps you are using anxiety and obsessive thinking about him and your choices to prevent yourself from feeling the grief. If you see what happened to you as a loss, as grief, you might see that there is no moving forward, or over it – one accepts it, forms a new reality where this is now in your past, one moves through it and with it rather than over it. It is okay perhaps to allow yourself to think that something bad happened to you – I think we assume that something bad happens requires someone to blame but it doesnt.
Life has hard knocks and this is yours; this loss will change you in ways that you dont see now but will be growth (if this didn’t happen, you would grow in other ways so I’m not saying there is a silver lining to it, it is just inevitable that if we process our loss we grow), it will make you more empathetic to the loss other people face, and that you are connected to others through loss.
Even guilt I think is avoidance of grief – ‘if only I could have done something!’. But that is wishful thinking because you are suffering, so you need to address the suffering rather than thinking about how you are responsible for it or might have changed it.
Dear Bec,
I share the same experience as you. I terminated the pregnancy last year upon his pressure. I wanted to keep the baby but was scared that he would not help and I don’t have any family here and am already a single mom. He said that he loved me and we would be together and his feelings didn’t and would not change for me. Love was all there he said but he was not ready to be a father. If I kept the baby I would never see him again, he said. I had to make this decision for the only reason is that I was scared how I could make it on my own with two kids. No doubt – NOW I regret this choice tremendously. I would have not made this choice if I had known then what I know and believe now. I used to be an agnostic doubting type. The entire experience shook my entire world. I killed a human life. I will not go into the discussion about religion and pro-choice/pro-life debate. I will stop right there. I know people have different opinions. I will just say that I deeply regret this choice. I cry still almost a year later. However, what has been helping me is my faith. Repentance and seeking my own forgiveness. This is a work of the lifetime. Not meaning one has to beat up oneself for the rest of one’s life. Repenting and remembering but forgiving yourself are the goals and actions.
The person broke up with me couple months later. (1-year relationship) saying that he decided that we are different, something is missing, I am not the one, and he doesn’t see himself with me in a long-term relationship and he can’t really commit.
The red flags were there in the first two months of the relationship. Orange flags actually. The red flags came later and later but by then, I lost my ability to see any colors except for that you see through rose-tinted glasses.
Moreover, after reading this blog for 9+ months and working on me: my faith and psychology, finally made me understand that I had been sick myself. Low-self esteem, emotionally unavailable, insecure, eager for crumbs, humiliation, wanting attention, buying “love” with sex, confusing love with sex, future faking myself, fast forwarding. I did a lot of wrong things myself and of course I attracted him and he was attracted to me. Although I wanted a serious relationship, I had to ask myself recently, why I kept being with the person who told me upfront he is not thinking about settling down any time soon, maybe in couple+ years. By mid30s he still had not lived with anyone, never married. Relationships lasting 6+ months or 9 max. Ours was a longer one but only because I let him. He blew hot first 6 months and blew cold next 5-6 months with some periods of lukewarm. I couldn’t let go. I became more and more doormat and devoured fewer and fewer stale crumbs. I had invested so much into him I thought. He was my last chance saloon. (we are the same age). I didn’t want to try dating again I was so tired of many meaningless relationships I had after my divorce (9 years ago). I thought he might be the one since it lasted so long ( I didn’t have long relationships either since after my divorce, just short casual flings). I was holding on so tight although my gut told me in the beginning that something was off. Something was so wrong. He criticized me a lot, he didn’t spend enough time with me, didn’t introduce me to his family, smirked at me, judged, was insensitive, didn’t care about me and my life much only the artificial stuff. Everything except sex was wrong. I thought we had a great connection because of great sex. I could write a lot about this but I will stop and will just say that I am very happy now that this person came to my life. I have learned so much about myself and changed myself, I can’t believe who I used to be just a year ago. Like I am a different soul in the same body. It is unbelievable all the things I used to do and say. This is a true epiphany relationship that turned my life completely and I am so grateful it all happened. So grateful for the community here at BR and Nat’s wisdom and sharing it with us. Faith is the most important aspect and driver of my recovery and becoming a new person.
As about losing the baby. This will never be forgotten. We need to learn to go on with our lives with hopefully eventually forgiving ourselves. I accept that this will forever stay with me. The decision to either have a child or to terminate a pregnancy will stay with a woman forever.
How do you let go yourself off the hook because someone who is connected with your through such tragedy? Although my ex didn’t think it was a tragedy at all. It was a problem elimination to him. He is an atheist so particularly it was laughable to him that I thought it was actually a human being. You can’t argue and prove anything at this point. So that’s what I have been struggling with: I know it would have been easier for me to let him go if this loss had not happened.I am still holding on to of course, not to him anymore, but the pain that is associated partially because of him. We were both responsible for this. I am learning, with God’s help, how to move on from this situation, to let him go completely from my heart and deal with and work and repent it through my own strength and faith and hope. This is what I am working now. Letting me off the hook because of this loss. It is maybe still both: losing the potential, the fantasy of a relationship I wanted to have plus such pain of what happened. It is confusing. It’s hard to separate the two. But I am working on it. I think with more time I will be able to take him out completely of the equation and heal without needing him to apologize.
I never broke the no-contact I instilled after he broke up but he did 3 times in the 10 months period. I responded briefly and not immediately. The only reason I responded the last time is because I thought (naive me then, even two months ago), I thought he wanted to say sorry.
Now, I know he will never say sorry. But what’s important – which I think is the key here to letting go off the hook for me is THE ACCEPTANCE that I don’t need his apology to move on , to grieve, to heal. He doesn’t need to be a part of my grief anymore. I will handle this alone. I don’t need his apology. I am forgiving him without it. Working on forgiving him. It is my goal. It looks like I answered my own question here: how you let you go off the hook. You realize, Bec, in your case as in mine: you don’t need him for you to grieve your loss. It is more complicated for you and me because we are grieving two losses at the same time. I am considering therapy but not sure yet. I think my faith is helping me already to figure this all out. It is a trauma. If you feel you need help, please see a therapist. I believe I am experiencing a post-abortion trauma syndrome. I am recognizing it and dealing as I can. If you are a believer, great, it will help. If you are not, please find counseling.
I completely understand how you feel, Bec. I am in your shoes. I know all the feelings and emotions you are going through.
Hugs.
Thank you Sofia for your story and words of wisdom and also to the other ppl who offered support. It is truly the hardest period in all my life, and I have been through some pretty dark times.
I have been seeking counselling for my loss and grief, I think I had been suppressing the depression, loss and pain for almost a year. When my EU and I broke up in June, everything came to the surface like a tidal wave. And brought with it a lot of other pain I had stuffed down deep inside me for wayyyy too long!
I have to admit that he has been amazingly un-EU at times as he has really opened up about how much the loss affected him. And then other times he is just an ass!
A bit more history/context;
He actually wanted the baby and was so excited when I told him, at first he wanted me to keep the baby and I was the one who was scared, terrified, of losing him and being a single mother should thing not work, fearful, ultimately it was my own EU ways that led to our decision. There was also a lot of real world concerns, money, work, family and the fact we had only been together for 3 months when I fell pregnant.
Regardless, we spoke about our decision and we promised each that we would not let it affect us, if I knew then what I know now, I would never have done what I did. It was the worst decision of my life.
Ultimately, we both suppressed the pain, guilt and remorse of such a huge decision and let it affect our relationship, and by the end we had both emotionally checked out of the relationship.
It’s only now, almost 14 months later that I feel the true pain of our decision. He has told me numerous times that he forgives me, he doesn’t blame me for the choice we made, he even said I won’t let you own that choice by yourself, we both are to blame. We also have spoken about it being the right decision at the time for both of us, that’s why I’m so lost because I don’t know what else I am looking for, I don’t know what else is holding me back. Is it simply that this is traumatic and time will heal me?
I think Sofia said it, is it the fantasy I am chasing, the potential of what could have been? I have the greatest fear that he was my last chance, he was the greatest love of my life, we shared so much and yet it still wasn’t enough. I keep going back looking for more crumbs, Baby glimmers of hope. Making all the excuses to cling on to us, the relationship, my old life, but Nat is SOOOO Right when she says that by going back u are only hurting yourself.
I keep inflicting this painful pergutory on myself at least once a month, I take 10 steps forward in my progress and then go back 20 when I see him again. I’m smart, intelligent, strong and I know I am worth more, yet here I am again, back for some more punishment.
All I can say is thank you all for your kind words, Nat, you are a super star and I know your blog is helping many people everyday to make their worlds and hearts a better place!! Thank you from the bottom of my heart
Xxx hugs to all xxxxx
Bec,
How old are you, may I ask? How old is the man?
I see that you are still seeing each other. Is there a possibility you could rekindle the relationship? It seems like from what you said, he must have cared for you at some point and probably still does. He accepted the fact and was ready to be a dad and now he is checking on you and making sure you are not grieving the loss alone. I don’t know from your post how often you see him and what kind of relationship you are having. Seems like you are back together? If so, you think you could give each other another chance? It does happen sometimes if both want to. The baby that you lost of course cannot be “replaced” so to speak by a new one, but if you two still care for each other, there is a possibility of trying it again. A new relationship and a new outlook on life. A responsible one. A mature and committed one.
An abortion is a life time wound.
My ex pressured me continuously for the whole week to have one while I already decided I won’t have it but became overcome with fears of being a single mom twice and making it on my own with no support at all. He came around expressing love and affection and saying that his feeling didn’t change for me and after the abortion he will still love me and we will travel together and do things together and possible a year or two later we will have a child. He blew hot so much that I thought, wow, that’s how love and care feels. I was so touched that he was there for me for the whole week and two –three weeks after the abortion. He acted like a real boyfriend!!! Only to break up a month later…
These thoughts and ideas that he still “loves” me calmed me down but the decision was driven mainly by my fear how I can do it alone? in my guts I knew he would leave me. Because of course… all the EUmness showed itself for months and months before….
So to my ex – an atheist and someone who is afraid of responsibility – he made the right decision. After the breakup I waited for months thinking he would at least apologize and tell me that he is sorry that he had hurt me. The only reason I responded to him last couple times I thought he was reaching out to say sorry. No, he is not sorry. And I am closing my door. Forgiving him. Forgiving myself. And moving on.
Bec, yes, I hope you will find a good counselor.
Best wishes to you.
Hugs.
Hi Sofia
I am 31 years old and he is 37 turning 38 (with children form a previous relationship). Its a complex situation with lots of problems, on both our sides.
Despite his support at the time of our break-up it has dwindled quite substantially since then. I tried to make it work – sort it out, offered counselling (jointly) offered him space, offered him support and love. But I have ended up sacrificing my self worth, self esteem and happiness as a result.
He has made it very clear that he has no intention nor desire to get back together and work things out. He says this through his actions mostly, rather than his words. But he is the king of mixed emotions and signals. And whilst he says he doesn’t want to make it work, he is happy to share his bed when it suits him, check up on me etc… And me being desparate for his love, recognition and support (as I dont feel I an live without him… take whatever I can get, whenever he feels like giving it)
I am surviving on the crumbs Nat speaks of, constantly hoping they will turn into loaves.
He says he is happy, happier in fact being single, moving on with his life and not being in a relationship; Every time I try to talk to him about us – and out potential future – its a pretty short conversation.
Its over, it died when we made our choice, I just have to find a way to forgive myself and work through the loss and grief the best way I can so I can move on with my life.
Its incredibly difficult at times as I miss him constantly, I am so caught up in the fantasy of the life I was promised (future faking was his specialty) that I cant seem to get present to my own life and the focus and change I need to make to myself.
If only I could stop obsessing about him and the life I wish we could have together I would be able to see that this is more about ME and less about HIM…
I will continue to read this blog as it is awesome, especially on days like today, when for some reason, I am incredibly sad about our loss.
Thanks for the ongoing support 🙂
Bec,
The first thing to recovery is to stop seeing him.
When I was struggling a lot in the first few months of the breakup with my initiated NC I realized that partially I was also holding on to him because he represented my baby lost. The thinking was, “If I lost a part of him, let me cling to him, I can’t lose him now.” And also that’s why I couldn’t fathom losing him right after the abortion. I became painfully attached to him because he represented the pain too. It is a very complicated thought process to go through two losses at the same time especially when they are connected to each other.
Stop seeing him. You will never start healing about the lost baby until you stop seeing him. That is my advice.
Bec, I reread your post and I think I misread or rather projected my own pain about forgiving not only me but him also. If you are working on forgiving yourself, I believe only faith in God can help. This is a traumatic event in a woman’s life. Please seek both if you can: spiritual and counseling help. Don’t stay with it by yourself. Your friends alone might not be able to help you. They might feel uncomfortable. This is a very difficult subject for many. Even for those who had an abortion in the past. People don’t want to talk about it. Several women I know who had abortions refuse to talk about it. I wish I could give you my contact information. Please know you are not alone and seek for help. Don’t torture yourself in loneliness and guilt.
Bec
I was just struck by the sadness of your story and it made me want to post to let you know that people are listening and sympathising with you.
It is understandable that you feel so sad. You have things to grieve. I hope though, that you find a way to forgive yourself. Is it possible for you to see your decision not to move forward with your pregnancy as the right choice with the information and feelings you had at the time? I cAc completely understand that decision as a valid one. If neither you nor your ex felt able to give a child what it needs at that time then your decision was the best you could make. But you feel all sorts of regrets for what could have been and I understand that. I wish I had an easy solution for you. I have things I am currently struggling to let go of but they are not such a big deal when viewed beside what you have been through. I just wanted to say that there are people listening.
X
jay, it is true that Bec and I had what we had to deal with at that point of time. The information and choices. I tried helping myself thinking that way, but it doesn’t help. There is other way to heal, and hopefully, Bec will find her own way. It is the toughest decision a woman can make in her life. Men walk away easily from it. They are relieved and happy and that’s what hurts even more that someone is like that. Someone you used to think cared for you. I will continue praying for Bec, myself, and women in our situation. Thank you , jay, for your advice. It is for Bec, but I can use it myself.
Bec, Sofia and every other woman who has terminated a pregnancy –
Specialised, gentle, respectful help is now available for you. Post-abortion syndrome is recognised by a lot of people – professionals and others – as a real phenomenon, which needs a specialised response.
I don’t agree with the easy dismissal (by some pro-choice groups) of women who experience grief and sadness after a termination. I think it disempowers those women to be told it’s all in their head, especially when it’s such a common experience.
In the UK, there is a group called Good Counsel Network. They are a religious organisation, but they do offer non-judgmental, practical help to women who have terminated and who are seeking answers and resolution. I know women who have received huge healing and peace from going to them for help, sometimes decades after their termination. If you want specifically non-religious help, they may also be able to advise you on where to get it. http://www.goodcounselnet.co.uk/Suffering-After-Abortion-.html
In the US, Project Rachel can offer similar services. http://hopeafterabortion.com/
In Australia, where I am, we have Abortion Grief Australia.
It’s not all in your head, and you deserve a sympathetic and listening ear, and help to find resolution of your feelings. Don’t let people talk you down on this – you know what’s going on inside you. Listen to it, and share it with people who can help you unpack it.
Thank you, Ethelreda. I have heard about Project Rachel. I will look into it. Grieving and healing is important. Stifling and denying is making the pain worse if it is possible. My faith has been helping me and I have found it as the only source that is really helping. I used to be an agnostic just last year and an atheist for years. How things have changed. I am a believer now and fully immersed in my church and the community. That’s my only answer to healing and forgiveness.
Thank God for Nat and Baggage Reclaim. Thank you, thank you, thank you! I found the site back in December when I was going through a really rough breakup. I had basically checked out of life for two months during our breakup. We got back together after those 2.5 months and I really thought that things would be different and they were, from what I could see. We didn’t argue, we had a lot of fun, we became really comfortable and close with one another. Then, out of absolutely no where, he broke it off. He threw me away like yesterday’s trash. Just like that, it was done. I was heartbroken. I still am; however, things this time around are not as it’s the “end of the world” for me because I already went though it and I told myself that I wasn’t going back to that place, ever again. I read every blog that I think Nat ever wrote, and maybe twice! We’ve now been broken up 6 weeks and 5 weeks of NC, until last week. I went out with friends and over indulged in drinks. I ended up driving to his home to seek validation and “answers”. None of which I received during our two hour talk. There is no other woman, I know this. I don’t get how he can say that he just fell out of love with me. He pulls away when things with us get too close and comfortable. Us being comfortable and close with one another actually made him uncomfortable. This is my opinion. He’s done this four times now. Yes, four times. The last time we got back together, he promised me that he would seek counseling for his issues, including anger. After asking him a couple of times if he had and him getting angry for asking, I let it go. Just one example of how things were going to be on his terms. I know he is commitment phobic but he denies it. He’s looking for that “honeymoon high” most of the time and that’s just unrealistic. Now, with all that being said, I know hindsight is 20:20. I look back at the relationship and realize that I did a lot of the work. He was a future faker and in all honesty, probably somewhat of an assclown. Two days before our last break, I asked if anything was wrong because he seemed out of sorts. He actually got mad at me for asking and definitively said no. He was so angry, he had me in tears, which made him even more angry. Two days later, he broke it off with me. This was a week after saying he was thankful to have me in his life. During our breakup, he told me that he was no longer “gaga” over me. Wow! He said that we no longer had fun together. What? All of our friends were shocked, but none as much as I was when this happened. When I stopped over there last week, he did say that he misses me and that he had been looking at my photos earlier that day. He also said that it doesn’t mean we should get back together. Everything was always on his terms. I walked out of his house that evening confirming my thoughts of him being one of the most selfish persons I’ve ever met. At least when it comes to a relationship with a woman. I’m going to therapy, reading a lot (getting ready to read “The Power of Now”) and seeking support through some awesome friends. I question myself because I’ve always seemed to attract the emotionally unavailable type. Always. I know I have a lot of soul searching to do and, while I know it will help, it’s scary. Why do I still care for him after all he’s put me through? He threw me/us away like yesterday’s trash. It is so hurtful. I’m ready to get off this roller coaster ride to hell and back.
Also, I meant to write that we had a two-year relationship.
This really resonated with me. I have been seeing a guy who got divorced last fall for almost a year. We started seeing one another about four months after they separated, right after his divorce was final. He was cheated on by his wife, she left him for the man she cheated with. He pursued me pretty heavily the first month, gave me a very nice Xmas present. Pulled away around NYE, came back. Same thing kept happening. He told me he saw us having a future together, that he never expected to meet someone so quickly who he felt so strongly for. He works incredibly long hours and this combined with his divorce made our relationship a roller coaster. he has said he has wanted to be with me more than anything, but that he gets in and close and gets so scared. He’s terrfied of the same thing happening again. I tried to brek things off in the spring but we kept coming back to one another. At one point I saw he was on a dating website. After taking some time apart, about two months ago he came back wanting to see me, telling me he didn’t feel the need to be alone like he had been. Things were great for a couple of weeks until he dropped the bomb on me that he was moving. That he was going to have to wean himself off of me. He’s just so all over the place and I wrote him a long email telling him I need some space a few weeks go and how badly he’s hurt me. I’m just having trouble letting myself off the hook. I feel like I’m not good enough, that he never cared. I’mm even more ashamed bc I went out drinking with my friends last wknd and texted him after I’d imbibed too much. I just want the pain to go away. To feel as if I am good enough, that none of this has to do with me, it is his issues. This website has been so helpful to me during this terrible time. It’s nice to know I am not alone.
Claire,
it wasn’t you! No one would have been able to get in. He’s terrified of being hurt.
That said, he needs a few years, before he is capable of letting anyone in – will probably need counseling to get beyond trust issues. Someone coming out of a divorce needs to date, as they are not capable of moving onto to another serious relationship.
Please block all his info, as this relationship has no future.
Claire, you are good enough. You learned a good lesson not to get involved with guys going through a divorce. Just because he doesn’t realize what a catch you are doesn’t mean the next guy won’t.
Claire
Your story is so similar to mine. However, I was friends with this guy for about 6 years and we did become close and he confided a hell of a lot in me. He’s been divorced now for 4 months but still no progression on our ‘relationship’. 3 weeks of no contact and have joined a dating site and am going to meet someone for a coffee date tomorrow but am so scared as I’m still on the hook of EUM.
Moira
I have some words of wisdom to those of you struggling and asking “why do these men find me”. Natalie has been a great help at looking at myself and realizing I was unavailable too and a part of me didn’t think I deserved true love. If you wonder why you attract these men, think of you and how you are fearful of love (abandonment, getting hurt, etc). This was me. After a long string of commitment phobic men I finally thought “why am I choosing these me ? Why didn’t I walk when I saw red flags?”. Then something amazing happened. I finally realized the meaning of if you don’t love yourself first nobody else can. Loving yourself is saying no, walking away, knowing deep deep down you DESERVE true love and respect. Having real boundaries. As a kid my dad was very controlling and verbally abusive and my mother and I had no say in anything. We were his prisoners, his puppets. I learned this behavior and on my adult life have failed over and over and over in choosing the wrong men. Ladies, if you see a pattern it’s the universe’s way of telling you what you need to look at in yourself becuase we are magnets. Are some of you positive about your career or friends and see “luck” in that? It isn’t luck, it’s your thoughts and internal beliefs. I have experienced an amazing transformational journey of loving myself and in turn have been attracting wonderful men. You can’t have a happy relationship until you are healthy yourself. I first discovered my fears were my block with Natalie’s site and the book “he’s scared she’s cared”. If you have a pattern of unavailable men I encourage you to read. You are too. I then realized I needed to heal my wounded self and love myself again and read “let love in” and “calling in the one”. It changed my life! They have exercises to discover your internal beliefs and mediations and affirmations to heel them. I finally know I will find love!! And the best part was, I was able to let go of all my past relationships because I realized what they thought wasn’t a reflection of who I am and they didn’t deserve me. They are my old chapter of life when I didn’t love myself and in turn I attracted others who filled my sabotaging proficy.
I hope you all find your way to healing. Blessings and much love
Eyes,
You are so accurate in everything you say!!!!
Best of luck!!
Eyes Wide Open:
I agree with every word you said!!
It is exactly not loving yourself, not living a full, complete and content life on your own, and being afraid of being rejected and abandoned are the reasons for the relationships that are wrong.
I like how you are saying it was easy for you to let go of your past relationships because you look at them as an old chapter of your life. That’s how I feel too: all the past it doesn’t even feel like me now. Who was it??? Unbelievable. And I am letting it go too but just working on the remaining recent issues as I described to Bec.
I read the book “He is Scared, She is Scared.” Great insight. I read it in the first months after the breakup. Someone here recommended it to me.
You have some really good points, Eyes. For myself, though I get approached a lot by wounded birds/down and outers, I DO walk away from them and fast. After trauma man, I would be super cautious to ever go on line again because it’s become obvious that the only men willing to drive to this mountain town are doing so because they don’t have options at home in their big cities. I don’t see either as a reflection on myself, more a reflection of regional demographics/education levels (or lack thereof) among the older male population. In this area, none of the women are doing very well. They’re either settling for someone where they are doing all the work (really sad) or they’re alone and have been for many years. A regional anti education/pro mining and other extraction has wreaked havoc with especially men here. Since the area has been wrecked by mining, this is also why it is much cheaper to live here than anywhere else in the region so we do attract a good many folks in a place of hardship. Really the women who are in happy marriages came with their spouse from elsewhere. Having digested all this, I’ve understood that I need to focus solely on “getting out there” at events that bring in folks from outside the area and are more progressive. Unfortunately for me, the best events are when we have the races and there’s tons of older, fit fellow athletes here but from very far away, increasing the chance that they are hiding something back home. Really my only dating opportunity here but one with a high probability of heartbreak. Sad but true. This is why I am trying to look at ways to leave without risking my future financial security.
I also wanted to add a few more points. Rather than focusing on your exes just focus on you and why you chose them and how you can change. These types of people are wounded too, hence why you attracted them. You can’t change anyone, you can only change yourself. If I see myself attracting unavailable men again the first thing I will do is work on me becuase who you attract is a reflection of where you are. When you realize these things, your life will change. Trust me 🙂
Eyes
So very true. Yep, at least since I’ve been in this part of the country, I seem to attract either wounded birds or guys who seem perfect for me from a looks/values/education standpoint but who were attached and up front about it. As soon as I found out the attached were attached I was outta there. Unfortunately I work with one of them and have to see him all the time, cause of much sadness. The sad sacks may be because I am obviously strong and am a good listener and do try and treat all with dignity and decency regardless of my interest level. I dunno. It may be also due to local demographics in that most older men either willing to drive here to date or who already live here have serious issues. These I see the red flags right away and bail except for the last one (traumatized man)which took longer to unfold because his problems were not immediately obvious. Maybe these types approach all women, maybe there is something fundamentally wrong with me. I do know that whatever is going on is related to having to come west because I rarely had to deal with this sort of thing in the Midwest (twice in some 15 years of dating vs. 10 times here in the past 2-3 years)and when I returned to the upper Midwest this summer, things were very, very different although I was in mourning and there for only a few weeks at a time. Right now, I am relieved that I let “trauma dude” go. Miss having a dinner/hiking companion but do not miss hearing about his issues and being blamed for some of them. Grateful that at least I chose someone who I never have to see again once things failed, sooo much better than the guy-at-work situation. I am simultaneously working on mi casa in case I put it on the market come spring, working on grants to fund my sustainability center which may allow me to stay off campus, sending out job apps when some suitable ones come up (rare), getting firewood in in case I am not able to find another job, getting “out there” for events where there is any possibility of meeting folk from elsewhere and avoiding on line like the plague. Kinda covering all bases at the same time.
Sorry folks that was meant to read “attached and NOT up front about it”. If I know a dude is attached, I am outta there like a shot!
Eyes Wide Open- I agree with everything you say…almost. 😉 To say there’s something about us that’s attracting these people is blaming the victim. It’s more accurate to say that there’s something about us that sees green when the color is actually red. After it’s all over, we realize, “Ooohhh! That was definitely a red flag. Why did I think it was green??” As you say, once we know what respect looks like and exercise it with ourselves and others, we immediately notice it’s opposite and stay away.
Correction to above the book is “he’s scared she’s scared “
Eyes Wide Open, is the author Carter and Sokol? Thanks.
Claire,
You shouldn’t be thinking about why you aren’t good enough. You are good enough for someone who deserves you! Anybody else who doesn’t see that doesn’t deserve you!!!
Xo
Thank you for that, Eyes Wide Open. I’m just struggling with wondring why he even started with me. Kept it going as long as he did.If he was lying the entire time and I was just a rebound
I have really learnt my lesson the hard way – ex dumped me for someone else but his version was that “we had finished” so he was free to find someone else. This did not last for long and after a few months he wanted to try again. So we did and I was treated even more badly. I was really struggling and still am. Last time I saw him was a few months back during a week away where he had one more chance to bury me..and he did. Played happy couples then on the last day told me I was just a helpful friend and not someone he could see as a long term partner. Started alluding to sleeping with other women and made me very distressed. Said that I was not the only one in the relationship and that I was upset because I did not get my own way. Hardly spoke to me but the next morning threw back the sheets and said to me to “make love” to him. I refused but felt so ashamed of myself. His life was looking up so he charged up and dumped – cut me off completely, says I know the reason why. He has moved abroad and on with his life and I feel so angry – it is really affecting my life and relationships and I have lost friendships over him. I obsess over what happened and how he has used and abused me and how I enabled it. He said that he just wanted me to be happy but I have been left bitter and angry.
Kat,
I hope you’re finished with this guy!
Have you sought out counseling to understand why you kept returning to such an unhealthy situation?
Yes Alison I have – he finished it as he was tired of using me. I should be relieved but a lot of damage has been done. I saw a counsellor before but when she told me I was deluded I stopped as it distressed me even more. Have taken time out and am exploring going back to counselling as I need to sort out why indeed I did go back – being kept on the hook and cognitive dissonance played a big part.
Sounds like a bunch of games. It seems guys like women who just take thier bull**** without asking any questions.Lucky break he moved do far away. Just think of the new poor woman he has roped in who has no idea who he is like. I bet you are wonderful and a catch. He will be bald soon and impotent. Let him revel in that LOL!!! And really is his the best sex in the world? Im certain you can do much better .Atleast you wont have to worry about cathing anything. I wish you well. Although we r in different spots in life I think we have all had the bullshit factor and get it.
Thank you so much Jane for your kind words and support, you are right in that it was good he moved far away. He was a master manipulator, but he is a psychologist so an expert at messing with minds. He already is bald but can still get it up quite a bit. Sex was physically good but little in the way of tenderness and talking – after a while I felt very confused and lonely. His saw sex as a solution to problems and a way to “keep me happy”.
I, too, know that I have deep seeded issues with abandonment. I am determined to work through my issues because I cannot fathom another EUM. When breaking up with me, which came out of nowhere (for me), he said things like, “maybe out relationship just ran its course”. What?! I guess it had for him since he was always just in it for himself. Selfish. He has said a lot of mean things and controlled the relationship the entire time. After so many of his derogatory comments (often said in bully type manner – he is, after all a police officer), I would very often question myself and even apologize for something I’m not even sure what it is I was apologizing for!!! He was very moody – I swear he was PMSing most of the time. I had to walk on eggshells so I wouldn’t “frustrate” him, as he would say I did. So TELL ME WHY I MISS THIS PERSON?? My head tells me that I want validation from old emotional wounds, but my heart is being a pain in the arse about it!!!
Yes Gina those are that authors.
Claire- You miss him because you are missing who you thought he was, not who he truly is. Most of these men that do such unbearable things and say such hurtful things have the fears and abandonment issues we have and their way of dealing with it is “I’ll hurt her before she can hurt me”. They go woman to woman (manly times) knowing that they have issues and that as soon as it get serious or there’s too much closeness they run. They make excuses of what’s wrong with you to convince themselves of why they have to run in their madness of avoiding intamacy that could include hurt. The book “men who can’t love” is another great read. It does into detail about unavailable men and why they do these things and you’re crazy experience will all make more sense. The reason they run is becuase you SCARE them becuase you could give them what they need and it freaks them out becuase if they get close they I’ll chance getting hurt.
You miss the hopes for him not the real him. You are plenty good enough and don’t ever think of yourself as rejected becuase in love there’s no such thing with you love you first. My hopes for you are that you do some inner healing to get close to that self love and you can laugh at the thought of ever crying over this man.
Some of the missing part of that post was for Elisabeth. Sorry about that !!! I read to posts and mixed them up 😛
Four years together. Christmas and birthdays. I put him first and slowly I loose my friends as I’m always here just waiting to hear from him or him to possibly stop by. I’m paralized waiting for a call or text. Now he has gotten a promotion and lots of over time and is too busy to make time for me. (Isn’t that the excuse he used to tell his wife to see me?) After two years he said he was leaving her but there is always something that he has to stay for. I just wish he would tell me the truth. Its all I can do to stop myself from going to his house and asking her. I cant stand the thought that he thinks I’m so stupid as to believe his lies all this time. I asked to see him tomorrow and he said he would let me know. How can he not know now if he can see me? He sleeps with me last Sunday and wonders why I get so emotional about things and why I want to feel close and tells me today to not be so emotional. I feel so dumb for staying. I know he cheats on me. He says he doesn’t but he lies about everything so what am I to believe? I have lots of guys ask me out but I’m stuck on him and trying to make him see I’m worth it. He treats me like garbage and then makes me feel awful for believing his lies. Either way he wins. I leave and he goes on unaffected or I continue and he uses me as he pleases. I have no idea how this happened. I used to be vibrant and happy and not care but now I just only care about his attention and love.
Jane, reading this it is clear that there is no ‘either way’ or ‘stay or leave’, no dilemma, nothing to do but end the misery – but you have my compassion and understanding, as I allowed a situation like this to drag on for years. By the end of it, I didn’t know who I was. I had such low self esteem that I thought friends could solve my problem, endlessly bending their ears through my rollercoaster ride with this lowlife of a man, as though they were so happy and sorted they didn’t need my interest and understanding towards them. I lost so much, but now I’ve got it all back and then some, you can too.
I totally understand what you mean by ‘paralysed waiting for a call or text’. I remember a christmas when he’d disappeared with a woman, and despite major traumas in my childhood, this was the one and only time I had something like a panic attack, glued to the floor, lost and alone.
You wrote “Either way he wins. I leave and he goes on unaffected or I continue and he uses me as he pleases.”
You don’t leave for HIM to be affected, you leave so that YOU can win. You’re living for you, not him. You don’t need someone to make you feel like garbage, to have someone sweep you off your feet when he feels like it, and throw you back to the ground when he’s done with you. No one should control your happiness, and certainly not someone who clearly doesn’t have your interests at heart.
Free yourself, be that vibrant and happy person again, please not just when he lays on the sweetness and light- this is junk, it’s not real. Keep coming back here to BR. When you leave him once and for all, it will bring calm. You’re over the worst, I think you’ve hit rock bottom and there is work to do, but getting out of that dependence trap is the best thing you can do for yourself and it will get better.
well said Happy B. Good words.
Thanks for sharing your views, they helped me in my current situation, or past situation as of yesterday!
🙂
Jane,
He’s not doing this to you, you are! You are allowing yourself to be treated like garbage.
You got involved with a married man. You should have known that this was not going to go anywhere. You should really be thinking how the actions are affecting the innocents in this situation: kids and wife.
I would truly examine why you are OK with the intention of ripping a family apart, and why you would want to be with a man who is not trustworthy, and has shown you he is not trustworthy.
Time to deal with why you’re in this ‘relationship,’ and how to get out!
Thank you Eyes. I felt like a yo-yo in the relationship and I still feel like one after its end. I will say that I have more good days than bad, but on those bad days I really question his actions (why did he do this, why did he say that, how could he completely ignore me or what we had) which, in turn, makes me question myself and what I may have done, or didn’t do. It’s a vicious cycle. But, one that I am determined not to keep repeating. It’s just figuring out how, as scary as it may be.
Jane – from what you write, I would say that enough is enough. Show him the door, push him through it, slam it shut, and then dead bolt it!
Amen to that Elisabeth. Married men and that includes separated men are strictly off limits. Don’t go there under any circumstances, it’s just a long road down to loneliness and heartbreak for most of us.
Jane, make yourself a promise, dump the MM immediately, go strict NC and don’t ever look back. Staying in any sort of contact will only drag out the agony and it’s not worth it for someone who has a life with their wife, children and the rest of their family and friends. The family do Christmas and all other holidays together and you don’t, you aren’t included. You’re only a small blip on the edge of his radar in all this, not a major part of his life.
Get out now, your life and happiness are important, remember that.
Thank you to everyone that replied to me. Just to clarify – he had told me from the start that he was separated and living alone and leaving soon. (He has no kids). It just lately I am suspicious he has lied as they just went away for the weekend together camping. He says he doesn’t love her but goes above and beyond to please her when I get the scraps. I say to him on a weekly basis “If i’m not who you want and you want to be with her I will leave you alone”. I only want someone who wants to be with me. He swears I am but is so hot / cold. Reading BR site has shown me that it is a type of man that is like this. I have myself to blame for allowing it but I think that having shred of belief in what he says that he may be honest keeps me hanging on. I don’t want to wreck anyones home. I want to understand the truth as it is. So I can make a proper decision based on facts not lies.There is only one way to get that.
Sorry, but if he told you two years ago that he was separated/ separating and after two years he still isn’t then situation is very clear. You do know the answer. In life, there’re often unclear situations but it’s very important to set deadlines. His deadline has long passed. He deserves nothing, no benefits of a doubt, no “understanding”, nothing. Or, let me ask you differently – how long does this need to drag on until you’re going to say enough?
Jane,
If there are no kids involved, then why the delay?
This guy is still with his wife, as he is doing weekends with her. You need to see this for what it is.
Why are you doing this to yourself? He is quite transparent, but you are choosing not to see.
You also said he cheats.
It is also very clear that he is trying to fix his marriage.
There’s nothing here. If he had any plans for the two of you, he would have divorced years ago. He’s totally string you along.
Good Lord, don’t continue to do this to yourself!
Ive been reading, Getting the Love you Want, Harville Hendrix. Very helpful for figuring out why the attraction / connection to Assclowns and the subsequent pain / disappointment.
Jane, years ago I was in a similar situation and read an article that clarified everything. Basically, the author said at the moment he has no motivation to leave his wife since he has both of you. If you leave him now, one of two things will happen. A) he will realise he is going to lose you if he doesn’t leave his wife – so he will bite the bullet and do just that or B) he will stay with the wife and you will be free to move on and rebuild your life. Either way, win-win for you.
I left him, he responded by leaving his live-in partner but ultimately it didn’t work out between us. I learnt that a man who will put you and his wife/partner through that is not a sterling character to start with. So my advice is walk away, don’t wait another day. No Contact. Good luck! Life is short, don’t waste it on selfish people.
… or a very likely scenario C: he will leave to be with a third women, possibly one who met only recently.
I think the most powerful thing is to focus on what you want, not what you don’t. If you focus on the negative that is what you will attract. Even if you say “all these men in this town have issues”, guess who will show up at your doorstep? A guy with issues. I was one of these oeolle who always thought “I’ll be alone” “all men cheat” “they are all the same”, and until I stopped and started focusing on what I want, the pattern would not stop. Now I think “there are plenty of good men out there if other women are finding it, I deserve it just as much” “I will find love “. It’s all in how you think but part of changing that is figuring out why you didn’t think you were worthy before or walk away or why did you need validation from a jerk. Once you do that your thoughts will follow. And don’t forget when these men choose someone else think to yourself “at least it isn’t me anymore”, becuase they are no prize and they DONT CHANGE. It’s who they are. Count your lucky stars they are gone!
I just got out of a two year relationship with my ex a few months ago and we broke up once because he was a commitment phobe. He after a 3 month break begged to do antunjng to change. He never cheated on me or anything and did change some throughout the relationship but he still was unavailable at times withdrawing from intimacy (one day all over me next day across the couch with fingers crossed, so so weird!) or I would see him 2 days a week and he wouldn’t let me get close to his friends or family or get close to mine either. It felt so empty. He would say I was the one and although I believe I would be if his walls weren’t so high. After all this I realized I need and deserve a man who is ready to marry and have a family (his actions always took 10 steps back no matter how convinced her wanted this). It was very heard to say the least. He said things my ex before him said word for word “i am messed up but I love you and don’t want to lose you” “I may never be reay to marry (this is years in! Not the initial convos bc we were on the same page!). I finally realized holy how this is two commitment phobes in a row what am I doing to myself? These men early on showed signs of not going the distance with exes (my last bf was single for 12 years till our 2 years together). These men don’t change. So don’t kid yourself. And if they do someday, so what you are worth more and had to walk and wouldn’t wait around.
I tried to break up with my commitment phone recently too.he has no desire to be part of my life, friends,family, child’s life, etc. He kept trying to tell me I was misinterpreting his actions. They sounded so much like Eyes Wide Open’s guys. But I really don’t thing I am.
Eyes Wide Open- What you say about focusing on what we want is very important. Our thoughts guide our actions and behaviors. If we’re walking around in fear and thinking of what we don’t want, our actions will bring about what we don’t want because this is what we’re thinking about. If we’re thinking positively and of what we want, our actions take us in a forward motion as they are following our thoughts.
This is why I want to know what respect and a great date look like. I need to know what to look for.
Eyes- your two year relationship(s) sound just like mine! One after the other. I now feel like I need to work on myself (not that I’m broken) to figure out why I’ve chosen EUMs. I know it’s a fear of abandonment from a younger age and I’m trying to right the wrong in being with these men. To seek validation that I’m “worth” something. I know this is wrong. I need to stop the cycle. I gave this last one too many chances and all he did was blow hot and cold. I was so blinded by him and now, I feel the fool. Like he’s played me for a fool for two years and I’m somewhat embarrassed and humiliated by it all. He would always tell me how insecure I was. Now, I know he was playing on any insecurities that I may have had. Shame on him. Shame on me.
I can so relate to the hot one day, cold the next that you mention. I would see him one day and he’d be crazy all over me, how he missed me, hugging and kissing on me, and the next, he’d barely say hi and kept a certain distance. Personally, I think he had some bipolar characteristics going on.
I think I will put the “He’s Scared, She’s Scared” on my reading list. I’m a bit skeptical about reading it (from the title) because I dint want to make excuses for him and go back down the road of feeling sorry for him and then trying to seek validation or get him to see what he’s missing because “he’s scared”. Does that make sense?
Thanks Nat and others
This came in perfectly handy. I came to BR to find something to help me work through something that happened just an hr ago, and this was like a gift of help right in my lap. I LOVE BR and always find what I need.
I was sick to my stomach after being lied to yet again by someone I keep making excuses for. The turmoil, drama and misery when this person lies leaves me in such a horrible state. And, he always blames me for his lies, when he gets caught, it is my fault. Then all I want to do is punish him and put him in prison, verbally. I want him to know and hear everything, and it always backfires. He never changes and I stay upset. Who is in prison, me, self inflicted. I know that. I often in these times, try to think about what is really going on, and why I think he will change. That after the last lie, he won’t lie again. That after the last “I love you” he really meant it and would change. The only one who wants to change here is me. And I do. Then I get sucked into the lies and sweetness and “good side” of this man, and temporarily forget the hell he puts me through and the hell I put myself through. I beat myself up for continuing the behavior while I am beating him up in my mind. It must stop. I realize you can love many things about someone and still not trust them, you can feel they won’t lie or ever treat you that horribly again, but when they do it with such ease and perfection, it should be a serious red flag, and the final flag. We see red flags, we look at them, and somehow move forward, then get in deep and move forward. Now, 5 flags later, here you are. They can do many things to show their love, but then take it all away with an assclown move and more lies.
It is up to us, the ones in these situations, to check our behavior and beliefs and learn from this. To be proud when we can walk away, to be proud when we don’t have the goal of only punishing them back. That is a hard one. Punishment feels like it will lead to growth and change and rarely does it. I try to talk it out or yell it out and get them to see how their behavior affects others and the deep pain it causes. But it falls on deaf ears. There is more power in less words, and the most power in walking away especially after you have been lied to and hurt 10-20 times. The AC is not capable or interested in change, or chooses selfish behavior and lies to continue living the way they want.
I do not want to be in a self imposed prison, I don’t want to put others in one, and I refuse to let someone else’s horrible behavior be blamed on me. Love is tricky and deceiving. But love is not about lies and betrayal and back stabbing. We all deserve better. Stay strong everyone, and know your value and worth.
thanks Nat
RC
Thank you RC.
I’ve been ignoring flags and his lies to cover them up and continue living the way he wants. Yes, as you said,it doesn’t matter how any times we try to talk or yell.
I like your words calling it a self imposed prison that won’t lead to any growth. That is exactly what it is.
Thank you. I have been struggling with the lack of empathy and remorse from my physically/emotionally and verbally abusive ex since our five year relationship ended two years ago. He was convicted of assaulting me and continues to use his lawyer to bully me over relationship property. As far as he is concerned it is my fault and I should feel guilty that he might have been sentenced to jail. I am not sure why I expected anything different from him when he didn’t take responsibility for his actions while we were in the relationship. His family are more angry with me for pointing out his behaviour than they are with him for his behaviour. They also believe it is my fault because I should have left him. While I have forgiven him for the abuse, I think it is time for me to let him (and his family) off the hook in my expectation that they show me any empathy. The reality is he is never going to show any remorse for his actions. Thank you again.
@ Jane – He went camping with her for the weekend?!! Imagine you had a daughter and she was telling you this about her bf, would you not be telling her this is completely disrespectful to say the least? Look after yourself, this man looks like a no-hoper. You deserve more.
I’m willing to let someone who hurt me deeply last year off the hook. It took a whole year to get to this point and I realising in letting him off the hook I am forgiving myself also for being part of the hook. For staying hooked.
Because we are a lot of the time 50% responsible in these situations. He hurt me but I saw it coming and choose to be there. When !@it hit the fan I got hurt walked away but kept us both on the hook. I’d send him caring check up emails (he’s ill) that were really about telling him all about himself and how much he hurt me. Whilst at the same time berating myself for getting involved with him in the first place. So now I’m ready to forgive and let go. To me having a conversation not about the past but our future as friends is part of that letting off the hook. Trying not to speak to him was letting angry fester.
But I even fear the consequences of letting us off the hook. It means being vulnerable loving and forgiving. All things I think I am and yet am scared to deeply and truly be. It requires boundaries and a good level of self esteem. Am I ready?
Boo, I think what you’re doing is right on. All of this – letting others off the hook, forgiving, taking responsibility, willing to be vulnerable, facing your fears – is maturity in my book.
“Because we are a lot of the time 50% responsible in these situations. He hurt me but I saw it coming and choose to be there.” Yes. We are at least 50% responsible for our own situations – in fact I think it’s more than that. There is always the possibility of being hurt when you take the risk to love another, that’s a given – but of course we don’t have to load the dice by picking idiot partners who are certain to hurt us! Accepting the risk of being hurt as we venture into new relationships is one thing – playing with fire whereby we are ASSURED of major hurt by getting involved with truly dreadful people is another!
All of us (me too) have to own the responsibility for our situations and start taking this seriously. WE chose to get involved in these crappy relationships. WE picked partners others wouldn’t have touched with a ten foot pole. WE trusted them before they proved they could be trusted. WE jumped into sexual relationships without much discussion. WE moved in with them before there was any real commitment. WE got involved for all the wrong reasons and then stayed there for even worse reasons. WE accepted sub-standard treatment far longer than we should have. WE ignored all the red flags.
In short, we have to endure the consequences of our actions. Not theirs, ours. OURS! Not that we deserve to be punished, I’m not saying that. Beating ourselves up is completely counter-productive and keeps us, them, everybody on the hook – BUT there are consequences when we act foolishly and there is a price that has to be paid. I think the price is a mature willingness to work through these uncomfortable feelings, the anger, the grief, the resentment, the envy – basically the HURT, and accept that we have to face our role in it with real honesty.
That’s part of the deal, the risk that we ALL took when we got involved in these dodgy relationships. We picked ‘em, we got hurt, and now we’re responsible for our attitudes on how we handle this hurt. One of the measures of maturity is that you don’t resort to blame for what happens. You don’t blame others. You don’t blame yourself. You see clearly what happened and what needs to be done to heal and learn. Which, as almost every post here keeps trying to drill into our heads, is to put the focus on US, not them – to learn to be good to ourselves, forgive ourselves, love ourselves, value ourselves.
Wiser,
Thank you for sharing these words. I needed to hear them. Reading them was a relief for me as it is a reminder that is where my power and hope is…in acknowledging my part in my poor choices and the related consequences so i can heal and move forward from them. There is a lot of hope in that. Have a blessed day.
Well said Wiser
Your words are such a breath of fresh air after sooo many other relationship blogs tell us chix to “give the guy a chance”, “don’t be so picky, especially at your age”, “we’re all flawed” ad nauseum. Yep, tis true that if you’re going to be given false info from the get-go, eventually you will get hurt when the truth unfolds. I will accept full responsibility for keeping trauma man on too long when it became clear he had serious issues and becoming involved with a dishonest co worker. The fact that good, attractive choices here are no excuse, if there are no good choices for you, you either leave or choose not to choose. What I won’t accept are the opinions of others who say I am being too “elitist, picky” for rejecting folk I know would be a disaster. Yep, I could probably support a chronic drunk, someone choosing not to work, a ski bum, but that doesn’t mean I should.
Hate this blasted phone. Twas sposed to read “the fact that good, attractive choices here are nonexistent is no excuse”. Sorry.
Boo,
May I recommend instead having a conversation with you about being your own friend more importantly than his and being compassionate and ask yourself what you are afraid of letting yourself off the hook for. I dont know about you but in my process of becoming healthier and whole really i blamed myself for everything. It took alot of compassionate self talks and emotional work to begin to acknowledge my pain. I think you are ready for a healthier happier you w more self esteem. You’re here. 🙂 If you are able i very much recommend Natalie’s self esteem class. It was a blessing to me and i still refer to the materials. I wish you the very best. It will be ok. 🙂
* CORRECTION – I realized i really blamed myself for everything.
I don’t write very often but certainly appreciate BR “sharings” from everyone. Natalie is right on the mark when it comes to encouraging us to reclaim our power and stand on our own two feet WITHOUT feeling we have to pander to or feel victimized by toxic people/relationships.
I have been NC for 3 months with my ex and doing pretty well. My divorce was final last Wednesday and the same day I had a call from a friend telling me that my ex was in the hospital (in Canada…but both of us live in the US). He is facing a quintuple heart bypass surgery. The news was shocking to me since he never had any major health issues when we were together for the past 3.5 years (married 2.5 of those years).
It felt like all of my resolve to stay away from him melted in a nanosecond. I ended up calling him to get more information and tell him I was sorry for his situation. Told him to let me know if he needed anything. He’s texted me several times updating me on his situation. He must now wait (in the hospital) for 2 weeks before they do surgery. I’ve been feeling sad and upset. On the one hand I still love and care for him. But, on the other hand, now that I have had a couple of days to be with all of it, I realize, once again, that this is a man who, for the past 3 months, never made an effort to tell me about his medical problems, never called or even paid for his half of the divorce paperwork bill (only $300). At any rate, I’ve taken a HUGE deep breath and told myself, “You know what…I don’t have to jump through any hoops for this man.” He’s shown me time and again by his ACTIONS that he is not interested in me or my welfare. Even when he is facing a life-threatening situation, he could care less about me and what I am feeling. So, let his old friends/family/ex up in Canada take care of him now. MY LIFE GOES ON and I AM REALLY JUST FINE, thank you very much!! I am free to carry on as I choose. I wish him well…hope his surgery has a good outcome, but I have actually been given a huge gift of freedom and do not have to spend my life being his caretaker if something goes wrong with his bypass. I am extremely grate for the feeling of relief I have that, gosh…I’ve managed to dodge a pretty lethal bullet here!!
I’m really being tested, that’s for sure. I’m determined to “keep my wits” about me, hold my head up high and keep MOVING FORWARD as I have been doing anyway.
Thank you all for reading..any supportive comments are appreciated!
SS
Typo clarification…I feel extremely GRATEFUL (keep reminding myself of the gift I have been given).
Anon,
Yes that’s typical for them. I had to walk from mine because I always was waiting for that door to open wide and it never did. I would in on dept (he became very expressive and said he loved me all the time and I finally got closer to his friends) then would withdraw from another (intimacy, not bringing me to weddings and family events, not wanting to meet my close friends). It’s always a trade off bc they can’t stand closeness. If you didn’t have a patter of this I wouldn’t worry. But if you have always had unavailable men or a long enough pattern of them it’s usually a sign that something within you doesn’t feel worthy of a normal relationship and the distance feels comfortable becuase it’s less chance of getting hurt (their feelings also). There’s usually a runner and they find the person who chooses them. Or they reverse. I used to meet available guys and would get turned off. Until I was able to see I truly deep down deserved true love I didn’t stop being attracted to unavailables. Now I won’t even look twice no matter how handsome.
Thank you Eyes Wide Open. I do feel I’m getting there.there have been several cute EU guys who have hit on my recently and I can seethe red flags and walk away.
I also see it with the BF and to be honest I want less and less to do with him. I’m just getting the nerve as every time I have tried I clam up and he takes advantage telling me what I want to hear and to give him another chance. But the funny thing is I don’t really want to talk to or see him anymore.
Just trying to tell him and declare what the next step is – do I allow him the spare room for a certain amount of time, do I try to get out of my lease, etc.
Thanks Wiser:)Everything you have said resonates deeply with me.
I am realising that I do have it in me to step back and learn from situations that I used to only feel the pain of.
I can look at what happened last year with the view of what it taught me and how I can proceed with that extra knowledge.
It really is for me that forgiving him is forgiving myself. I made a bad choice. I made bad choices before and I am sure I will again but this time I feel like I learnt something monumental which will help me make better future choices:)
The relationship that brought me to this website ended 2 years ago. Letting myself off the hook for that experience is something I seem to be learning to do through subsequent relationships. Each time I allow myself to love again is a bit of a victory and I am really learning to choose better men to love. It’s a challenge sometimes but im getting there. Thank you for BR and the community here 🙂
I’ve been reading the Mr Unavailable & the Fallback Girl again. One part that really hit home was the following:
“What bewilders so many women is how no matter what they do and no matter what he appears to say or do at the time, they keep ending up on HIS terms. This happens because the combination of blowing hot and cold and the Reset Button facilitates. The STATUS QUO, the comfort zone that Mr Unavailable always strives to be in – the level that he’s prepared to be expected, needed, and wanted from.”
Not only does this really resonate with me, but when I read the words of STATUS QUO, I got a chill down my spine. The first time that my EUM needed “space”, he actually said those exact words to me. He told me, “you just aren’t happy with the status quo.” Wow!! Maybe he was reading Natalie’s book! ????
Elisabeth, your mentioning Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl takes me back almost two years since I read it myself. It’s a treasure.
I’ve come to realise something big about these Mr Unavailables in the time since I read it. You know how we kind of joke about being ‘friend-zoned’ and what a frustrating horrorshow it is? There’s something worse, and these Mr Unavailables do it all the time — you have to beware of being ‘friend-with-benefits-zoned’.
Friend-with-benefits-zoned. That’s where these emotionally retarded men try to put women when they get bored with weakly pretending it’s a ‘relationship’ and just want to continue to use them for sex while they gallivant around town courting the clap. But unlike being involuntarily friend-zoned, this nonsense is voluntary. It requires enormous cooperation by the Fallback Girl for Mr Unavailable to achieve that status quo. So watch out for friend-with-benefits-zoning. And be careful out there.
Jane,
I sincerely apologize. I thought he was still living with the wife.
Please read what Nat says about people who are separated, and how dangerous it is to date them. personally, I would not date anyone who had not been divorced at least three years -There’s too much to work out, and they need to date, not enter s serious relationship.
Honestly, this guy has kept you on the periphery of his life, and does not intend to let you in. You’re not happy,so please move on, so that you can regain control of your life. Happiness does not look this way.
Elisabeth,
I know how you feel. My recent ex told me “if you ever got pregnant I wouldn’t be upset because you are who I want to spend my life with. ” and “I will always be here for you. I will never leave your side and I want you to know that” a WEEK before he freaked out again because I wanted to go to family events with him (id rarely be included) and have a normal two year realitionship. I also lost my job back in June and his reaction was at least I had my parents house to go to that’s two hours away if anything and him and I were just having seirous convos about getting a place together weeks before! It was insanity, but these people are also sick and not capable of a healthy relationship. I would see tears in his eyes and the “struggle” was evident and real. I can’t and we can’t be responsible or take their problems on as our own. They need to do seek help and that isn’t our place. All you can do is move on and know that you deserve a healthy partner that can love. The book “he’s scared she’s scared” actually goes into why we choose them and how we hide behind more obvious and worse cases or commitment phobes to not face our own issues. They say who you date is a mirror of where you are at now. Looking back I was very fearful of getting hurt and a guy just “changing his mind” after a few bad experiences and I attracted just that because I clearly was not ready to open my heart because of fear and I attracted yet another one.
Good news is that it isn’t the god punishing us or luck. We have to learn the lesson of self love to attract someone who loves us and once you do the fear will go away becuase you yourself are enough and don’t need a man’s approval to validate that. That in turn makes you capable of a healthy relationship to give and receive love. Loving yourself first may sound cliche and I used to not understand what this meant, but it is incredibly true. You don’t take assclown actions personally and to be honest people can sense self love so they won’t even pursue you becuase they know they can’t take advantage. When they say men love bitches, it isn’t literally….they love women who love themselves enough to put their foot down and walk away if needed. It’s crazy how all these things finally clicked for me.
Nobody can hurt you unless you let them. We do have the power and the choice to walk and know we deserve more and they don’t deserve a second thought .
Thank you Happy Again:)
Really lovely words of encouragement:)
I did debate whether I needed to have a conversation with him but as mentioned in earlier posts I’m moving away and it almost feels like an exercise in cleaning out my closest.
I’m used to creating my own closure in situations because often the other people are too damaged to offer that. I feel in my heart that it would be the grown up thing to do but that is only because of our dynamic. It may definitely not always be a good idea. My ex of 7 years I would NEVER want a conversation with any more. I guess as I’ve grown I’m able to take people and situations as they are. As I learn to trust myself I’m able to discern others a lot more:) I also am curbing my over giving people pleasing tendancies. It pays to step back and see how others step forward or not. Thank you again 🙂
You’re welcome. I understand through experience all you said. If you havent had a chance to look into it get the unsent letter guide. I did this the other year and even now if needed because sometimes feelings come up later. You are doing well. All the best
https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/downloads/
I’ve come to realize that most unavailable men are just not good men. Found out some upsetting news . The ex I dated on and off for two years and I had a break for 4 months one time and he had a gf (short lived) and he texted me how much he loved and missed me and tried to get to me pick him up while he was with her and I didn’t even know he had a gf until I saw him out and he introduced me to his gf. Long story short he ended it with her and got back with me for a year and the night we ended bc he was just not giving me any indication of it moving forward with action (all future faking words) he was out with this girl HOURS after our break up. I was very upset bc I feel like we were just a joke and he told me that he could care less about her like that and has zero interest and weeks later, today, pictures of them surfaced. She clearly didn’t fall out of the sky hours after we broke up and I’m not stupid and to know he said she was bipolar and he didn’t want to sleep with her bc of the lack of attraction and he’s still with her shows what a piece of work he is. He is a salesman, how figure bc he sold me well. I only have my self to blame for going back after knowing he was texting and calling telling me he loved me and he was with her, that showed he’s an asshole. It hurts but to be honest I’m just focused on how I deserve so much more and this validates how walking away was the right choice and I wish her luck considering he spoke so poorly of her. Good riddens and on to true love. Always listen to your gut becuase I always somehow “know” but ignore myself. It’s our protection.
Eyes Wide Open,
This is the EUM motus operandi, they ALWAYS have a back-up. He doesn’t care about you or the other girl, he cares about himself. They are full of s@*t. The minute he introduced you to his gf that you didn’t know he had that was a sign that he was a liar and a cheat. EUM bounce back and forth between women. If he broke up with her he would try to comeback to you. If you didn’t take him back he would go back to her or find somebody new. He probably tells the gf negative stuff about you! I bet if you talk to her story would be different. Walk away and never look back!
I have been beating myself up about my current Mr. Unavailable for the past month. Time to let myself off the hook. I just feel stupid for sticking around when the whole time it was so clear he did not ACTUALLY care about me, and the whole 1 year “thing” was on his terms. We live in a smaller city for work (notoriously a “dating desert”)and I held onto hope that things would change and he would want to properly date me so that I could have a silver lining of being here.
Truth is, he only cares when I’m ready to walk away. So then I don’t in hopes things will change, but in the end they don’t. All our friends kept telling me he is just socially awkward with women and it’s not that he doesn’t like me. But in the end, if a guy truly likes you, he will put in the effort to consistently see you and contact you.
Also, I let him off the hook one to many times, instead of standing up for myself. I just feel hurt and lonely now. This sucks. End of rant. 🙁
Thank you for all of the support. I found out that this guy, who went to visit the place he was moving a little over a month ago and had me watch his dog, met a girl while he was there. He came home and took me out to a nice dinner. we hung out several times before I sent him the email saying i no longer wanted contact. well a few weekends ago, he told me he missed me, wanted to see me. Came over, we slept together, talked about how everything in my email was true, that he thought I hated him. Told me how wonderful and amazing ive been and how much I will miss him. I found out last Friday the wknd after this he had this girl come to visit, she met some of his family. The wknd after saying all of this to me. How can you do that? And apparently she is why he is trying to move even quicker than he was. How can he do this? Sleep with me when this girl obviously already had her tickets to come visit. he has nor remorse when I asked him about it. He has said over and over what a great heart I have, how wonderful i was to him after the divorce. So why her and not me? I have literally been sick to my stomach all weekend long over this.
Claire,
Don’t assume that he is going to have a successful relationship with her. Think about he at a minimum dishonest and I bet you the girl he “likes so much” probably has no idea that he is seeing someone behind his back. There is nothing wrong with you!!! He on the other hand is using you and you need to go no contact today! Don’t let him think he can bounce in and out your life when he feels like it, while he wines and dines someone else. He got one thing right–your do have a good heart and he knows it and he is exploiting it instead of valuing it. Walk away because you deserve better.
Claire,
Sorry for the typos! Typing to fast, hope you can read clearly!
Claire,
I’m confused??? Why did you end it initially?
He can do it because he is a deceitful asshole.
Claire, you took care of this guy’s dog, slept with him after his return, all the while he has another in the wings.. You need to be angry, not worrying about why he didn’t choose you. That’s the ego speaking.
This guy is a dick, and a mess of trouble. Walk away!!!!!!!!
How long did you date?
Claire,
One more thing. You said he cheated by going on a dating site, and the relationship has been on/off due to his commitment issues. You need to question why you have been sticking around all this time, as it all sounds like a lot of drama!
I would be lying if I said that I didn’t take some joy out of telling the AC/EUM, “hell no” after he left me for someone else then tried to comeback when they were having problems. I was happy being strong enough to walk away and forgive myself for the choices I made. I never expected an apology because he would never admit that he was a bad person and did hurtful things. Besides, me walking away said everything I needed to say.
I never confronted him about some of the things he did that where hurful after he disappeared because I knew it wouldn’t do any good. Sometimes I wonder if I let him off the hook by not challenging him about his hurftul behavior. But then I realized, I not going to allow him to explain the unexplainable. He was a jerk and I realized it probably made him more crazy that I didn’t ask because it meant I didn’t care! The experience with the AC/EUM was my epiphany moment and I am glad I went through the pain if it brought me to the happiness I have today!
Eyes Wide Open
They don’t like to be alone. The ex Ac said that he wasn’t sexually attracted to the one before me but guess what, I found out he was sleeping with her anyway, it doesn’t matter what they say it is never the truth. He is unhappy with the one he is with now, puts her down but apparently she is “tolerant” (which to me means, very low self esteem) but the only way he will ever be willing to leave her is if someone else was waiting in the wings and he wants that to be me, but I refuse to ever go there again, he’s not worth it.
I had been seeing him for almost a year. He was recently divorced. You can read more of my story up in the comments. It was off and on and then in the spring pretty much off. But still seeing one another. He came back about two months ago wanting to spend a lot more time and said how he’d missed me and was t feeling like he needed to be alone. Then a fee weeks in after seeing one another tells me he’s thinking of moving. I watch his dog while he’s gone. He met the girl while he was there. Continued to see me until I called it of several wks ago. We saw one another the other wknd and the very next wknd he has this girl come visit. Lied to my face and slept with me the wknd before bc he missed me and wanted to see me. She obviously was already coming. It’s just beyond gross and so deceitful
I agree 100 % Stephanie and Sandy. I know he probably talks poorly about me to her also. This is what they do. He for the record slept with me once every two weeks sometimes and once it went 5 weeks!!! I thought he was gay! Maybe he is? Who knows Lol. That was first for me considering every relationship I’ve had was healthy in that dept. He probably confuses he phobic anxiety with being unattracted when really it’s his fear ruining his sex drive (I read that as a commitment phobic trait and he admits he’s a phone openly). I can assure you I won’t be going back EVER again. He would still be with me but I am the one who said I couldn’t take being rejected from his family life and feeling like I’m in a dead end relationship with his actions when he was saying I was the one two years later and it barely progressed. As you said these men can’t be alone and cheat because they are super insecure. They aren’t happy with themselves. I have been able to be alone since 6 weeks ago and am happy with it. It’s gods way of showing me I made the right choice in not wasting my precious time any longer. He was big on monetary stuff like gifts and trips and I genuinely feel it was out of guilt for god knows what he was hiding from me. It’s used for control and manipulating.
Woops. I meant he admits he is a “phobe”
At the end of the day he and all these assholes with find someone weak and that doesn’t love themselves. My exs rebounder is perfect for him. She knew he used her as a rebound then got back with me for a year (all of her friends are close with his so met them
All although she wasn’t around ) and the DAY we break up she was there by his side. He is her problem now and not mine. They look for the weak insecure girls and if you grown strength they will know better than to try to bs you. I will def enjoy my “hell NO” moment some day.
Here’s the thing. I’m GLAD I had such a rotten time with the last man I ever went out with.
It was through this misery, walking on eggshells, gaslighting, thinking it was all my fault, that I found this website and learned about emotional unavailability – his and mine.
I wasn’t ready to make the break, once and for all, and I freely chose to end by degrees with this guy – the death of a thousand cuts. I see now that this was the only way I’d learn anything, and so I’m even glad it went that way. Oh, the relief when it was finally over!
Because of this awful series of experiences, over some five years in total, I was put through the mill, and learned more than I think I’d ever learned in my life about myself, and about what I did and didn’t want out of life, relationships, etc.
And because of this blog, I have been able to process past experiences as well, and find patterns, and think, ‘Whoa, I am much better off staying single. If necessary, for EVAH.’ It’s not just them; it’s me. But I learned not only to let him off the hook, but to let myself off the hook as well.
The best part has been addressing the child physical and sexual abuse issues that underpinned it all. Once I shared them with a good professional counsellor – and was believed – the healing was rapid and immense.
Yes, I’ve got committment issues with men in terms of the one-to-one relationship thing. I can’t and don’t really trust them, and if I meet someone, it may take a while to build that. But I have found that instead of being a Fairy Princess Who Lives Happily Ever After, I have become a loyal and decent friend to a whole range of people, a white knight to some, a lady confidante to others, a universal aunt, a spare pair of hands, a reliable mortgagee, a payer of restaurant tabs, a valuable employee, and a maker of pasta.
It’s not all about being a Fairy Princess.
So, I just really messed up a 3rd date I was really excited for. Two amazing dates, and a fun planned one for the 3rd.
He came to my place to get me, and came up for a second or two. I said I had not planned on having him up, but gave him the tour, so did not make him feel welcome at my place. We went on our way to see a show. That was fine. After we went to a drink at a place I suggested and it seemed really good. I shared that I was glad we were getting to know each other, enjoyed my time with him, and saw him as a gift. I shared some of my interests etc. And he seemed to feel happy to meet someone also shared diverse interests. I also joked about my boobs when we talked about what we sleep in. He drove me home, and kissed me goodbye, and said talk soon.
Some concerns I had about him: when I asked him in different ways what makes him feel good in interactions, he always said: I take care of myself, I don’t need others to make me happy. But when I was with him, I was feeling a block to getting to know him behind the “I love to bring out the best in people”. Like there was no room for him receiving or needing other people.
Then I did not hear from him. and I thought about what I said and I am deeply ashamed:
A. I did not make him feel welcome in my home ( and I was a tease by mentioning my boobs)
B. He was soooo great at making me feel taken care of, but seemed somewhat not great at letting himself be taken care of. So I mentioned that all the energy was directed at me, but I wanted an in to give as well. He said he asked me to do things he also enjoyed doing
C. I mentioned I was embarking at becoming a tour guide in my local town. I said I would be making up my own tours, and that if I still knew him in January, he could be my guinea pig. He laughed at that
D. I spoke negatively about a work situation, but in other discussions talked positively about work.
E. I said there was a group of people I did not like engaging with because everyone is looking for husbands and the guys looking for numbers. I said some women are negative about men. He said he had experienced that and had distanced himself from it.
So, I scared him away. I ran him away with my neediness… I feel terrible. Please help!
REPLY
Scared,
OMG!!! Give yourself a break!!!!! You did nothing wrong, other than be your lovely self.
The only thing that I am getting from your post, is that you’re not secure in yourself – numbered points. Time to start believing in you, and stop taking on so much blame. People can see the insecurities.
Also, don’t put so much energy into one person. You’re really setting yourself up for a lot of disappointment. It was only the third date.
Allison,
I am getting exhausted and frustrated that I can never be insecure. There are times when I am insecure, and I feel like there is so much pressure to be confident and perfect, I find it overwhelming. And it makes we want to cry just thinking about it.
I need to be perfect to meet someone and have them love me. But sometimes I am not perfect. I am needy, and judgy and mean, and negative etc. Sometimes, but not all the time, but it exists and me, so that means no love for me?
Scared, nobody and I mean nobody is ever perfect. We are all at certain times, needy, judgy, mean and negative..that makes us human. The men you are meeting are not perfect so why do you feel you have to be?
If he cannot accept you flaws and all then that is his problem not yours. I think that by wanting to be perfect you are setting yourself up to fail straight away.
Scaredhimoff,
I’m not sure where the neediness is?? You were just being yourself and if he can’t handle that then he is not the man for you. The end.
Scaredhimoff, I seriously don’t think you did anything wrong on this one. One of my EUM once said to me, “I don’t need anything from you,” when I asked him what I could give to him. I was slightly offended, as I had a long list of things I wanted to “need” from him to make him feel needed. So when he said this, I asked for clarification. He then said, “I am happy on my own, if I died today, I would be happy, as I have everything I need.” I totally thought, well, then what does he need me for, and I was actually right. He did not need me at all and it did end with him eventually making excuses and rejecting me. So after reading Nat’s wonderful past blog posts, I am convinced that my ex-EUM uses this as a tool to have an out whenever he wants. He can have fun, then when he wants out he can always say, “well, I never said I ‘needed’ you” and he can get away unscathed. I guess I was hoping beyond hope he would have at least one thing he could need me for, but no luck, he really did not need me in the end. So there is nothing you did wrong at all. It was all on him, he decided that he did not want anyone to need him by saying he did not need anyone back. Don’t think you said or did anything, it is all in his head on that one.
adele,
Thank you for your response. While I enjoyed his providing for me and maybe I have some work to do on receiving. To me a relationship has to have both and honestly, the energy around all of this was strange. The giving felt overwhelming and the thank yous on my end, not enough as I like to give as well. I had real concerns about his ability to engage with someone and connect if he takes care of himself so much. I thought, well, then why have a relationship? I know it is for giving, but if you can’t receive then what is the point? And more importantly, it felt like I was not able to learn more about him because he had a wall up – especially around discussions on friends and family – it was like pulling teeth.
I was enamored with his spirtualness of being totally responsible for his own emotional state, but I think I see now, that there does need to at least be openness to share and compromise for a relationship to be just that, a relationship.
Scaredhimoff, you are so right about the fakey wall thing. Look at it this way, if you have to do all of that work, you are really in a relationship by yourself anyway. I used to do the same thing, I used to always be accommodating, always have a kind word, sometimes always be the one to call first, always this and always that. At the end I was exhausted, but there was no one there to do the same for me. That is when I realized, why am I doing all this work? I got nothing out of it, not even fringe relief. I started reading self help books on spirituality and realized I have to feed my soul first, before I can be good for anyone else. Like putting on the oxygen mask first in an airplane losing pressure, you have to take care of YOU, that is All of you, first and foremost. If someone else comes into the picture great, if not, also great, but never be afraid to take a long bubble bath every night if you need it, as you are first now, it is your turn. He would not appreciate your introspection and amazingly great self analysis, but we do on this post, so keep up your good work, as you continue to work on being a better you. All of your efforts will pay off, and you are not out pulling at your own teeth, as it were.
Scaredhimoff, your very handle says – like mine – that you are maybe not ready to date again yet?
You seem to be investing way too much in this, and micro-analysing everything. The idea with dating is to Enjoy Yourself, and this includes not doing anything really stupid like having sex too soon. But the general idea is to have a Good Time.
Did you have a good time? That’s the main question. Who cares about what he thought about everything! What is this – a job interview?
You were just being yourself. If he can’t handle it – and clearly he can’t – then it’s GOOD you ‘scared him off’. Let him go.
Question: are you scaring YOU off as well?
I am ashamed at my behavior, deeply humiliated, as I know dating is discovery. I took something good and crapped all over it.
Scaredhimoff, first of all — you didn’t. (scare him off) So change yer handle already! lol That handle puts all perceived “failures” (i.e. not suitable matches) on you; makes ’em your fault somehow. So NOT true.
You were spontaneous and open and fun and I love the boobs comment. So fun! You did NOT owe him more than a quick “tour” of your apt. You did NOT take something good and crap all over it! You ARE something good and he wasn’t wanting to step up to the plate. And as Ethelreda sez, it’s only dating! So please put down the whip and back away — you are whipping yourself unnecessarily for things you IMAGINED you did that weren’t right. As I read what you wrote about your third date, you’re a fun person, with good boundaries.
And I generally had a great time, but my heart was hurt when it ended based on my terrible and shameful actions.
Terrible and shameful? You are making this very dramatic. While I think it’s normal to question yourself a little and wonder a bit when a date ends and we don’t hear from them again ( it happened to me recently after a coffee date that seemed to go okay, and I gave it some thinking too), but to get all shitty with yourself and say you are shameful is over the top. I thought about it for a few days when it happened to me and wondered if I said something weird or had buggers in my nose or something, but at the end of the day I realized that I was just being normal and he made plans then never followed through on them. That’s HIS deal. He may not be a horrible guy, but his actions showed me a lack of integrity and I’ve been there done that before, so adios. Brush off the dirt and get up. It was a stumble ( and a learning experience), not an off the track train wreck, so stop making it out to be one. Besides, it’s so early on with this a guy and you are getting too wrapped up like this is some horrible terrible thing. It was three dates, not a relationship. You need to gain some perspective about this and stop thinking that you are some terrible ogre that he couldn’t bear to be around. That is nonsense and really not a healthy way to approach dating. Not everyone we date is the right for us, or us for them. If your sense of worth is this fragile, maybe some time out grounding yourself and working on your self esteem before dating would make the whole experience better for you. There are millions of guys out there, he is just one of them.
P.S. You don’t need to be perfect. Trying to be IS exhausting and if your goal is to be perfect, you are setting up traps to fail. Be yourself, like and accept yourself, and be strong. That is more attractive than perfection…..because wanting to be perfect is someone trying too hard and caring too much about what everyone thinks. It’s not being authentic.
Okay. One more thing for perspective….terrible and shameful actions is the story I heard about a woman who after being blown off by a guy, snuck into his house and stabbed him in the balls. It is NOT terrible to ask a question about his ability to be open or feeling weird that he invited himself up to your house. See…you’re fine.
In fairness, he did not invite himself in. He said he would pick me up and I never guessed he would try to come up….
PS –
I was enamored with his spirtualness of being totally responsible for his own emotional state, but I think I see now, that there does need to at least be openness to share and compromise for a relationship to be just that, a relationship.
Got it in one!
He sounds like someone who’s either had a lot of bad experiences (= red flag! red flag!), or is a bit of a control freak, or both.
No man is an island, and you can’t have a relationship without vulnerability. He may just have very good boundaries, but it’s not your job to pick his locks.
Go have some fun for once.
Scaredhimoff, I think 3 dates is not enough to learn about the person. Give it couple months and learn more about him. And relax. I think you are too nervous and tense about it. Try to go with the flow for the next few dates and just observe and then make a decision. And be yourself. No one is perfect.
Well, in my view, Scaredhimoff , your conversation would’ve scared me off at the third date because I hear so much “Let’s be a couple” in it.
Not saying you did anything wrong. Am saying you don’t seem to want to wait for things to develop. Slowly. You kept throwing out “hooks”, waiting for him to say something…anything…that shows he is declaring his intention to be your boyfriend, fulfill your needs – even your need to be needed.
I do not think I am EU, although I think others may say I am. I am always seeing red flags that tell me “It would not work with this person”…whether it is a lack of physical attraction (his for me or mine for him), a bossy nature, a type of humor I don’t care for…whatever. I cut my losses early.
Like the guy who said “If I lived here, you’d have to put these shoes up.” That let me know HE was NEVER going to be living with me. Or when I told a guy I think I’d like my mate and I to have separate bedroom and bathrooms, but sleep together every night – and he told me that my “separate room” could be the kitchen. Or the guy that was rude to waitstaff.
I ended things with a man who I could see was not all that into me. I liked him a lot, we had fun, but he was a little reticent with me….when I asked about his lack of enthusiasm about me, turned out he preferred light-skinned Black women, which I am not. No harm no foul. Does not make him a bad person, and I was observant enough to question things before I got too involved.
One of the things I liked about the ACMM situation is that my time WAS mostly mine. I don’t see that as EU. I don’t want a joined-at-the-hip relationship – especially if one or the other is being dragged into participating. I really hope to find someone that likes a lot of the things I like, and not a go-along-to-get-along partner. I hate those early conversations when guys are trying to get “deep” and asking “what do you want in a man”. Let’s just date for a while and see what happens. We’ve got to observe each other in different situations to see if we are compatible. Stop with the interview, already. Stop with the timeline, already too. Just because we’ve dated for 2 months does not mean we are a couple if neither of us has declared a commitment to each other. I need more than just seeing how you are at the movies or a restaurant to know if we can be a couple.
And, Scaredhimoff – stop beating yourself up. Don’t think that your worth lies on whether or not he calls again. You had a few good dates. You will do that again. Don’t go twisting yourself all in knots trying to be someone’s idea of perfect. Be yourself. Take your time. See if he measures up to what YOU want.
I feel confused about how I did what you are saying. Can you clarify?
We were out in a third date, and it is important for me to be with someone who wants a reciprocal relationship. I get the just see where it goes, but it does need to grow, and I do want to be in a real relationship. let be clear, he takes deep pride in taking care of others and talked about it a lot. That is why I even asked the question. I asked, I see you love to give, what do you like to get. And it was not out of nowhere, it was out of what he expressed enjoying doing and observing….
Hey, Scaredhimoff, I wasn’t indicting you. You aren’t being charged with “Illegal Procedure” or anything.
But here’s the answer to your question:
“You are a gift” would make me uncomfortable on many levels. It is so unrealistically romantic, like the movie line “You complete me”. C’mon. That’s not reality.
Reality is – people you love are gonna piss you off at times, make you angry at times, do things you find disgusting at times. Real love sees and acknowledges imperfections.
The “if I still know you in January” line would make me go “uh oh” in my head. I’m glad you have future plans for yourself….don’t include me so early. In real life, if we still know and like each other in January , then things will naturally flow and I may share that experience with you. But you’re “selling” it to me now, and if I continue dating you it may become a concrete plan in YOUR head, so that if things go sour in December, you’re doubly angry with me for leaving you high&dry for your January thing. Too much pressure!
But that’s me. The guy for you may be ecstatic beyond belief that you think about a future date with him so early on.
Elgie,
Well, he sadly was not that excited as he is gone. And thanks for the input.
Yes, I put some future stuff out there:
A. How to get to my place – for future reference, the easiest way is to take this route.
B. The in january convo was this – I am trying to become a tour guide and I was saying I need people to give tours to as I create my own tours. Where I live is cold and I will have to bribe people for outdoor tours. So I will need guinea pigs. I used the word IF specifically because I was trying to avoid the locking him of – I’ll give you one.
C. You are a gift – this guy is highly spiritual and sees the world pretty much in gratitude, and we have talked about things as seeing the world positively. I would have never said it otherwise – we spoke very much about being emotionally generous and bringing out the best in people. That is where that came from.
I do not understand why people are so afraid of future talk. It seems very emotionally unavailable – but only because I view future talk as normal amongst people have an affinity – romantic or not. Every good relationship I have had has had that early – not – let’s go to this wedding together, but – Hey I like this or I am doing this general thing, maybe we can go/do this together.
Does that shed light and clarity? Thoughts?
‘It is with narrow souled people as with narrow necked bottles; the less they have in them the more noise they make in pouring it out’ – Alexander Pope
Just because someone talks about being something doesn’t mean they are. Only time and their actions will show you their true character.
@ scaredhimoff
I think you’re focusing too much on accomondating and giving to him. I have found the good ones like to lead by doing things like planning dates, asking a woman out, etc. and seem to take pleasure out of treating someone well. You are not going to want robe with am an who can take risks and lead – that’s when we get into eu behaviors like having to call them all the time, do all the work, wonder why they can’t be open about how they feel, etc.
As a woman you already are giving them something… Your time and appreciation. Just show up, try to enjoy your date, be honest, keep your eyes open/boundaries, offer to pay if you want, etc. No need to rush in and over give a few dates in.
I’m sure after that he is perceptive enough to know you want to go out again after that date based on what you wrote. If you don’t then his loss and it could be as simple as it’s not a match. Or something not related to you at all.
Thank you for your thoughts. And I am realizing, I say I want someone giving, but I am having receiving problems. Something to learn about in myself.
However, with this person, it was not a conversation in I like this, you like that – it fell flat. I give to you, and I give to myself – I have no need for other people. That is not the basis of a relationship, in my opinion. I need people. I do.
And as to giving, I was simply trying to get at what makes him feel good in a relationship. I was not trying to call, or plan dates, text etc. In fact, I did very little of that – he did 90% of it. I was very clear that I loved that he was leading with plans. But it felt like a vacuum – and coming out with me not being able to learn more about him. In reality, we only had one conversation about this related to partnerships in general, and another one with him simply stating that he does not need other people to make him happy.
Hi scaredhimoff,
you might want to read “Women who love too much”, by Robin Norwood.
Best wishes, V.
Hello Scaredhimoff,
“A. I did not make him feel welcome in my home ( and I was a tease by mentioning my boobs)”
I don’t see anything wrong in this, if you don’t feel fine to make somebody “feel welcome”, then that’s how it is. I think, that you set a boundary here, why you should make him “feel welcome”, because to get laid?
May be you were nervous and that’s why you behaved and that’s fine, may be your gut said, that this person is not welcome in your home. May be it was too early and etc. Sometimes we also have to trust our insecurities!
It was more like I was not ready and I did not sit him down, and make him feel welcome in my home.
I ended things a couple of times. But he would come back and say he missed me, how he needed to see me. We had a lot of the same friends and he was known as a good guy so unfortunately for me I would give him the benefit of the doubt. I am now left wondering why her, not me? You couldn’t commit and kept saying it was bc you felt broken, etc, that it was the timing. It’s just so fresh and I wake up with a pit every morning. i wake up in the middle of the night. It’s just hard to think why can you have her in town, you are moving and apparently going to be with her. I just keep wondering that why her and not me. What does she have that I don’t? And how can you treat someone who you have admitted was such a big part of your life, that you stayed here as long as you did bc of me?
Claire,
They’re words. Only!
You have to look at someone’s actions to see how they feel.
This whole relationship sounds like a lot of drama! You need to address why you stayed, not why you were not chosen. Relationships should run pretty smooth, not like your situation.
Claire, Don’t beat yourself up over the “why her and not me” part. If you go into a rescue shelter for animals tonight, you would be drawn to certain puppies and not others, certain kittens and not others. If someone asked you, why one and not the other, you would not be able to answer, or would you? Most guys just have an instinct, and that other girl who was picked most likely was less demanding (not to say you were “too” demanding, but he was not willing to step up, so it is his loss). It is really hard to take being rejected. Just because he picked her does not mean he is immediately happier with her, and does not mean when he is with her, he will not have secret moments where he is not thinking about you. So why did he pick her? He himself may not even know. If you need to think about it, and you will, try scheduling time to do it, quite effective. Tell yourself, “okay, I will think about him for 37 minutes” and set a timer. You will find after 15 minutes, or so, you will be ready to go to something else, but force yourself to keep thinking about him for the full 37 minutes. When the timer finally goes off, you will think, “finally I can go back to doing X or Y.” It is effective as you force yourself to do what you thought you wanted, but you will stop wanting it, but quick. Next time you start to drift thinking about him, up the time and say, “okay I will think about him for 48 full minutes.” And so on. By the time you do this for a few days, your brain will say, “enough already, I don’t want to be forced to think about this guy” and you will almost be over him. I say almost as you will have some other moments where you rehash it all again, but these will be fewer in between and you will start really getting over him. Good luck and try not to be too hard on yourself. He has only picked a puppy, nothing more. You are still the real prize, don’t ever forget that.
Scared,
No one is perfect!
You will find true love when you love and value you,
You are putting way too much pressure on yourself
Ethelreda,
Yes, death by a thousand cuts. For me a lifetime of difficulties due to both others and my own bad choices and hurts came to a point that i could no longer hide from myself during and after my last relationship. I knew i could have made better choices w many friendships and romantic relationships but each time i left i would go back because i was alone. Finally for me truly i did not like who i was becoming and i felt so bad about myself i had to make a choice. A choice for me! BR has been very instrumental in my journey through information, support and knowing im not alone in experiences I’ve had. I also went to therapy for a time which was helpful. As hard as all of this has been i am now so glad i reached that point because this is the first times of my life i feel free and ok. Learning so much still and im less afraid of life. Im happy for you. For me too 🙂 and really i hope as ive been encouraged so many times over the years reading peoples words here i hope others can also be encouraged by what we’ve both shared.
HappyAgain
Also, thank you to everyone who opens up on here making this journey less lonely and more encouraging. All the best.
That’s the thing though. I am not demanding. Nor was I ever. I was very patient and understanding bc of what he had gone through. But after awhile it was obvious by his behavior he was not fully able to commit so I tried to move on. He was hot and cold. I dated other guys, but he obviuosuly didn’t want to let me go. Honestly he is kind of manic and I think he chose her bc he is moving and has to have emotional support lined up. he is still acting manic and has not healed so I think it is very likely the same thing will happen to her. His issues just don’t disappear over night I don’t think. No matter who the girl is. That is why it hurts so much.
I know it will hurt for awhile, Claire, but try to get over it as it will line your face and keep you from finding the next guy who may be perfect for you. You are better now, but when you were in the thick of it, think of it this way. If the relationship were a sinking ship, if you were on a real life sinking ship, would you still save him first and give him the only life raft? I loved my EUM also, all of them, even when they left. But at some point you have to deserve the daggone life raft yourself. You need permission to get into the boat, so get into the boat. You deserve you. I hope you can get over him sooner than later as you don’t want to wear that worry on your face, weighing you down. Live your own life now, wish him well and try to do and make yourself busy with everything else to care that much on him.
I have a boyfriend of about 3 years and before we were in a relationship he had become really good friends with his brothers girlfriend. When we first got together he would always call and text and hang out with her and it was fine with me, but after about a year and a half in our realationship I started to feel that they were ‘too’ close but he had an ex before that had the same problem so I just told myself I was crazy. Then, one day I noticed he deleted his texts with her (and he never deletes his texts with anybody) so I was like, what? So since I’m kind of crazy, and I went looking around online to figure out how I could see the messages, I figured it out. What I saw was things like ,” I’m so glad you replied:)” and ” I love you so much:)” “your amazing ” ” I wish I could talk to this other girl that was his friend a while ago” who he says he hated. But I confronted him. About it told him that I didn’t feel comfortable with him talking to her like that and so I just plainly asked him to not text or talk to her without me there, which isn’t to much to ask. So he said he would end of story. So about a year later I found out he was calling her a lunch (while he was at work) and he also called me for lunch and around this time he would call me for 2 seconds and then say he would have to get back to work. But he was really calling her. This absolutely broke my heart and it caused our realationship to spiral down hill. And we have tried to recover from that but I still see her, I still see them look at eachother, I still see their connection and it breaks my heart. It’s been a really long time but I still see her just about everyday. How do I forgive him ? How do we move on when I have to see her all the time. Or is there nothing to move on from? Is it no big deal? Thanks.
Hello Brittanyrose,
I can’t give you advice like: “Do Y, Ask Y, break up and etc.”. I can say that this behavior is unacceptable obviously your bf is double faced. Don’t you feel, that you are in emotional roller coaster?
From my personal experience I can share this: I had very short relationship ( 3 months ) with a woman that future faked me and was seeing somebody else behind my back. I was really hooked and was chasing her 6 months after she broke up with me. During these 6 months I found really interesting facts and realized, that this wasn’t the person I knew from the first 3 months.
I will will not tell the entire story, but I had my enough moment. I put her in NC, but I had a chance to see her every day. I was so angry and I found, that can’t be available for other girls, because of the unexpressed anger. A friend of mine asked if I like to move work in another country and I decided to give it a chance, because this will really help me to heal myself emotionally.
I will tell you from experience, that as much as you stay near to toxic people as much time you need to heal.
My advice: Share with somebody, because you can’t keep this inside. Read more posts from this website. Comment in the most recent blog post about your story, so the ladies here can help you.
Good luck.
OK, ladies (& gents), I’m still not over the fellow who brought me here three years ago. I’ve tried to do a bit of dating and I keep making the same mistakes, realize I’m not ready and pull myself out. I get discouraged when unavailable, sleazy men are the only ones interested in me. So I have given in a time or two since the ex, and ended up badly hurt or hurting someone.
Then I realize, I don’t know if I care about dating. Then I realize the cold, hard truth: now is not the time. I am undergoing getting an online portfolio for my art ready and based on the things I have recently made, I have a chance at a solid career. I have talents that need tending to. At some future point maybe a partner will enter the picture who will add to the richness that is becoming my life, maybe not. But I’m still not ready or wanting to date. And that is okay.