The biggest question that YYGs ask themselves is ‘Why does he keep coming back?’ and it’s simply because he can. That ¦and he’s the original Dog In a Manger ‘ He don’t want you but he doesn’t want you to move onto someone else who might actually want you and prevent him from being able to have the easy access that he currently has back into your life. In order for Mr Unavailables to indulge in this boomerang behaviour, there has to be a facilitating YYG. In fact, Mr Unavailables would not be able to exist and continue with their behaviour if there weren’t Fallback Girls ready and waiting to co-manage this dysfunctional partnering.
But as a YYG a particular problem presents itself because other Fallback Girls meet a Mr Unavailable, have the usual roll call of issues, break up, and move onto a new Mr Unavailable. With you, you keep bouncing back and forth between the same Mr Unavailables because they keep turning up and you keep letting them back in.
You start believing that the reason why he keeps returning is because he recognises that there is more to you and this relationship than he realised.
In your mind you think ‘Bingo! I knew he’d come round to my way of thinking!’ and in his mind he thinks, ‘Ah..that Susan’s good fun. We had some good times together. I wonder how she is. We should meet up. I’m sure she realises now that I’m not the settling down kind so it’ll be easier this time.’
Much like with all interactions with Mr Unavailables, whilst they are very good at controlling the pace of things and what you get out of the relationship, you set the tone. He can only get away with as much as you’re prepared to let him get away with.
Mr Unavailable could call you up and suggest you meet up and you could turn him down. You just don’t.
Mr Unavailable could start blowing hot, offer to take you out and end up in your bed, but you don’t actually have to let him.
All it actually takes is for you to repeatedly turn down his offers of ‘reconnecting’, stop slipping him the sex, and basically cut the contact but you don’t. After a while he learns the pattern with you and behaves accordingly.
My Mr Unavailable drives me insane. It’s like he only really wants me when he thinks that being with me again is in serious jeopardy. He’s so intense and full on then and showers me with attention. It took a long time to realise though that there was a pattern to us getting back together. I’ll tell him to get lost, he’d beg and plead, I’d stand firm, he’d leave, I wouldn’t hear from him for a day or two, then he’d call to see how I am, soon it wasn’t long before he’d turn up on my doorstep for a ‘chat’, he’d give it the big talk and say he wanted things to work, I’d take him back, and so it would start all over again till next time. I feel like I’m wasting the best years of my life and it’s bloody exhausting. Yes, I’m still doing it. Karen, 36, via email
It often feels like these guys have an in-built homing device that senses when it’s just the right moment to call and whilst I don’t disagree that men do seem to have a nose for these things, there are some things that send the signal.
You respond when he makes contact with you – This sends the sign that even though you might be a little pissed off with him, you’re not so pissed off that you’re ignoring him, which he also reads as your potential interest in him. He will either blow hot to draw you back in so that you reconnect, albeit temporarily or for some of the colder bastard variety, just responding is enough to make them feel better and they disappear again.
You don’t respond when he makes contact with you ‘ He reads this a sign that you may be getting over him or heaven forbid, you’ve met someone else. This is an indicator to up the contact and start blowing hot to win your attention.
You drop whatever or whomever you’re doing to meet up with him or get back together – This sends the sign that you’re still hooked and that he can have you. You tend to read his reconnecting with you as a sign that you’re getting back together whereas he sees it as the two of you being a bit nostalgic and hooking up.
You tell him that you’re over him, you’re not taken in by him any longer, and that you’re just with him for fun – He reads this as a challenge to prove you wrong after all his ego can’t cope with the possibility of you not being interested. From the moment you’re entertaining him, he reads this as a signal that you are actually interested.
You tell him you’re fine with being friends – He reads this as an open invitation to keep in contact, nose around in your business, and keep an eye on whether you’re moving on. When you treat him like a friend, he challenges the boundaries to see if it’s really the case because being platonic would mean you were over him, hence it’s time to strike.
You’ve improved your appearance, appear busy, and are independent – Another sign that you may be moving on and seeking out pastures new.
You’re an ego massage for him. – If they haven’t got in touch with you because their homing device senses that you may have moved on, they can also get in touch because they may have experienced something that has put a dent in their ego and returning to you makes them feel better and inadvertently reinvigorates their confidence that they’re still as great as they think they are. Maybe they’re being rebuffed by other women. Maybe it’s taking longer to pull his new target. Maybe he’s not so busy at work or with his social life and suddenly feels at a loose end. Maybe he sees that yet another friend has got a girlfriend or has taken the plunge and got married and it challenges his fear of getting close to a woman and being committed. Whatever it is, it’s enough to galvanise him into making contact and you read this as his welcome return. They stick around till they’ve got their narcissistic fill or they suddenly realise that they don’t actually want to be anything more than they’ve ever been with you.
By you reading his reconnection as a sign that things are stepping up a notch between the two of you, the expectations that result of this whether they are communicated or not, put things back in perspective for him.
When he steps back and disappears again, it’s because he is redressing the balance and bringing your expectations back down to a manageable level, i.e. just enough to ensure that should he choose to come back, you’ll let him back into your life. He is maintaining the status quo, again.
I cannot emphasise it enough that when he’s retreating it’s because he doesn’t want to be around so much that you might need or expect something, and he doesn’t want to be responsible.
He really is that Dog in a Manger, toying with you like a Yo-Yo, stringing you along, hogging the manger to keep other men at bay and stop you from making a move, but sniffing around outside the manger because he doesn’t really want you. But he does need to ensure that should he ever decide that he wants you, albeit temporarily, you will take him.
Your thoughts?
This excerpt is taken from the chapter The Other Woman from my new eBook Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl. Find out more and download.
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talk about reality smacking me in the face. this sounds so much like my so called luv life that it’s beyond depressing. i really don’t know how to stop the cycles and it hurts really bad that i have to keep going thru this.
Brad, when you say “show up at a bar” what do you mean? A few months back i ran into my EUM at a bar.. I was there first, and immediately wanted to leave. My friend, however, would not let me. I avoided him, as he rubber necked all night to see where i was. He finally passed where i was and stopped as i was talking and i said, “hi, how are you” and then turned back to my conversation.. I truly doubt he thought i cared at that point.. i avoided him for the next hour or so, and then left. I went home and changed and went to another bar and him and his friends were there!!! This is Rhode Island… LOL.. i completely ignored him, was with a guy, and went to the inside bar where I stayed all night as not to see him….
What will happen next time? Hopefully there won’t be a next time…. too much stress, but it was a little empowering.. I think your point is when a girl will go someplace b/c she knows her ex guy is there.. is that correct?
ANNIE.. WELL PUT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
NML, I think one of the most profound lines I recall in a Hollywood Movie, was Harrison Ford in ‘Six Days, Seven Nights.’ “You want to know how a woman turns a guy on? She shows up. We’re guys, we’re easy.”
When a lady shows up at a party or bar or any where, the only important thing to a guy is – she is there. What is said doesn’t matter, what happened doesn’t matter. A screaming fight really doesn’t matter, because: 1) She is there; and 2) All that emotion means that she cares.
No Contact really does mean no contact, and is the loudest, clearest way a woman can communicate to a man.
Wow, did I need this “kick in the pants” today! My ex-EUM has been “sniffing around” and sending me e-mails, etc. in the past couple of weeks, and I, being the classic fallback girl, responded to them and was dumb enough to ask him to lunch last week, which he willingly agreed to. How stupid is that? We had a “talk” back in March that we would be “friends”, but he has been sitting back and not making any efforts to hang out outside of work, etc. So, today, at this moment I will get back on the NC, and I will not fall off the NC wagon. Lately I have been feeling like I am losing my mind over this stupid man! Anyway, thanks again NML for putting it so clearly that NO CONTACT is the only way in these situations. I learned my lesson the hard way…..
Brad K, don’t you think if one were to follow your advice, she would look bitter and not over the situation???
And perhaps saying hello would be mature and just get on with her night???
What is so empowering is seeing through their b.s./ceasing to make our own erroneous assumptions – and getting rid of the EUM – because I am not interested in being fooled/jerked around/really offered nothing when it comes down to it. NO CONTACT gives ME the power to do that.
NO CONTACT means I deserve better and I’m not willing to lie to myself anymore that he has any genuine intentions.
Brad.. i agree with unknowndiva.. i was not going to look bitter, i was not going to engage in conversation, which i didn’t at all.. I said, ‘hi, how are you” and immediately dismissed him.. I stayed out of his range, ignored him when he passed to go to the bathroom, and left thru another door as not to pass him.. I respect your opinion, especially about my friend who is selfish by the way, that i wanted to leave and she said “no”.. I am not out to prove to anyone that I can handle myself while he’s there in a social scene drinking.. it never never works out… but in my opinion, i did handle it, and very well…
One of our mutual friends noticed i was there and told him, to which he responded.. ‘ I saw her she doesn’ want to talk to me, she even blocked my cell number:”…. I don’t want to leave witht he upper hand but I did leave with my pride and he by no means thought i was still blogging about his sorry ass, althuogh I am… LOL …
I did not “engage him”.. .. i was mature, brief, and short, almost as if i did not know him that well.. i then turned and he had no choice but to keep walking…
and no i did not stay all evening.. i left an hour later and he was still there.. AS far as the 2nd place, i picked a spot for the night and never saw him again..
again, i respect your opinion, esp since you’re a guy, but i thihk i handled the situation great under the circumstances… If i run into him again, i may leave, that was overall the best choice.. i won’t deny that…
This is a reality post for me. This has been my situation for 4 years and Im still there. We are on the non talking phase…and he did exactly as was decribed last week, one simple text to see if I would respond and I did and havent heard from him since. I dont know what to do, Im growing tired of this charade but I cant seem to pull myself out of it. I did the no contact for a lil more than a year and I still went back…I know I have to move on if I want more and to be happy.
Sheila/Brad, I would not have left the 1st bar, but saying: “Hi, how are you” that gave him attention. I would not have acknowledged him. Sheila, he knows you are in Love with him. Now, going to the 2nd bar where he was with his friends, that gave him the impression you are looking for him.
I don’t think this has anything to do with being mature, but talking to him may encourage him to make contact in the future – and that would not be good for you Sheila, you are not over him yet and he will reel you back in.
Once you feel indifferent about him, then you can talk to him should you run into him
Sheila, Do you see a pattern here? I do *not* think much of your ‘friend’ that wouldn’t let you leave. You might want to examine that relationship – not your friend, but how you interact with her/him.
No Contact with a ex-EUM is a big deal. This is life-changing stuff. Your friend may not have understood, you might have wanted to keep the reasoning and details private. But if you wanted to leave (which I think would have been the right thing to do), you should have left. Immediately. Why your friend would put her needs ahead of your crisis bothers me.
Your relationship with your friend sounds too much like wanting to drop the EUM, but not making a complete break. Hanging on, letting others rule your choices. You had a chance to balance what you needed – not to encourage the EUM, protect yourself from him and from your own turnmoil – against pleasing your friend. And you gave responsibility for your actions away, this time to your friend.
Your evening was then spent keeping an eye on the EUM. Your verbal response to the EUM should have been much briefer. Something like, “Hello, now go.” (Skip the casual chitchat, keep it formal, avoid intimate smiles, forget the put-the-guy-at-his-ease stuff. Practice the ‘steely eyed b****’ look from My Chauffeur.) This doesn’t sound like you made the right choice, to stay with your friend. “I want to go home now” should be sufficient for any friend or date – or be cause to leave on your own.
As for the EUM? What he knows is that 1) you stayed all evening; 2) you kept track of him (not just present, but engaged with him); and 3) you spoke to him in a casual (ie. intimate, inviting manner, “Hi”). The signals you sent him were not mixed at all, for him. And he stayed around. His signals to you weren’t really mixed, either – you got the full message. And he knows you know. Nope. Showing up (or staying, that night) is a loud and clear message.
I agree with Astelle–there is a fine line between our brain telling us that we need to have no contact and need to move on, and our heart telling us that we still have feelings for them, and maybe they will eventually love us. So, we try to maintain NC but if our EUM comes slithering around in any way, our heart convinces us to respond and let them in. But as we know, the end result is ALWAYS the same. We expect a different result and then are crushed when it doesn’t happen. We have all done this, and we always end up hurt and disappointed. So, we MUST keep the NO CONTACT rule with our EUMs in order to heal and move on. I know it isn’t easy and it just plain sucks sometimes, but the temporary pain it causes isn’t as bad as being on the emotional rollercoaster and never having the strength and courage to get off of it.
Finalyoverit… agreed 100% i have broken it lots of times, twice really breaking it.. I cannot tell you how rock bottom I was.. it is not worth it.. nothing changes…
I am now on one month of nothing.. he is blocked in every which way possible as I cannot call him either…. yesterday i get a pix messge from him.. i guess those cannot be blocked via cell b/c they go thru a different system…..ignore, then delete… He can’t have the best of both worlds, don’t bother me.. I have come too far as of this point and i’m not wasting anymore time on his sorry self-absorbd, lying, deceitful, narcissistic ass…!!!!
NC… only way to go…
Brad K., I appreciate getting a male perspective, but sometimes I think you are purposefully trying to “rattle the cage” and get fired up responses from those who post on this website, rather than giving input that is compassionate and supportive. I think we have “analyzed” Sheila’s post adequately, and I think she knows how to handle her relationship challenges without judgment or condemnation.
unknowndiva, I am not concerned that Sheila might have looked bitter – although I don’t think that would have needed to be the impression. If she had just left or left looking hurt, though, that might have been appropriate. And I think most adults would assume, if Sheila picked up and left when she first spotted the guy, that she was either hurt or avoiding trouble.
Sheila, unknowndiva, that was my recommendation. The No Contact Rule and common sense say that avoiding contact, regardless of how you feel or appear to others, is a shield, the only way you have to protect yourself from further hurt.
And if it looked like Sheila wasn’t over him, that is only the truth. It isn’t over. Where he was, when he passed near, he had her attentions – which was what I meant by ‘engaged’ as in interlocking gears being ‘engaged’ so that one turns the other at a measured pace.
Sheila, the word ‘Hi’ is a casual form of greeting, and implies an intimacy between greeter and the one being greeted. Most people use more formal terms of address when meeting strangers, or those they fear may hurt them (as you fear that getting involved with this guy again will hurt you again). “Hello” would have lacked the assumption that you accept him as a casual acquaintance, or a friend.
And the phrase ‘How are you” is not a throwaway statement. It was intended at first, and still expresses, an interest in the well-being of one person for another. It is a question. You don’t ask questions if you don’t want an answer, so ‘Hi, how are you” establishes that you are friends with the guy, and you have an interest in how he is – his health, his feelings, his attitude, his self-image. However you really feel, how ever much you really want to know that he is OK (or maybe that he is hurting), this kind of intimate conversation is not appropriate when you are breaking up.
As NML points out in the title of this post, No Contact is No Contact. That means you don’t let him manipulate you, or your family, or your email or phone provider, to continue to affect you and your life. No Contact is no contact. While you are still healing, your first need is to protect yourself, not to win a reputation for ‘being better’ than the guy or the circumstances or whatever. Please take care of yourself, first.
FinallyOverit, I don’t always agree with Brad, but today I do. Keep in mind, he is looking at this as a “normal” man, he doesn’t have that twisted thinking that our EU’s have. Nobody is judging Sheila, we give our opinions. Should I run into my ex EU, I will not acknowledge him, why should I? He has lied and deceived me, he doesn’t deserve a “Hi” or “Hallo”. Brad is right, these guys are manipulators and I would not go thru the trouble of changing phone numbers or blocking, I am in charge of my phone. The No Contact is for us, not him, he doesn’t know (yet) that you cut the contact, but eventually he will get it.
On being compassionate and supporting, we are all supporting here, but eventually we have to take responsibility for our actions.
I am grateful that I got tough love from NML when she answered all my questions when I found this website, I needed somebody to really open my eyes.
I took that knowledge and applied it and I think a lot of women here did that as well. Compassion, hmm, a few months ago, if I would have even mention his name to any of my friends I would hear, don’t start again, are you still pining over that loser, is it so much fun being his doormat?
I say, there are only 2 options: cut him out of your life or keep playing his game over and over. I don’t want that for Sheila or any woman out there.
Point taken, Astelle, and I agree 100%. Maybe it’s just his way of writing that seems a little “judgy” but I understand what he is trying to say.
Do all EUMs send mixed messages? Mine has said all kinds of things that keep me hanging on, like how much he cares, what a good wife I’d be, how he’s going to find me in a few years and marry me, etc. All words of course and his actions contradict this, he frequently stands me up, in fact the only time we go out is after I practice NC for a week or so and he begins to panic. I’m actually wondering if he even knows what he wants. I keep holding on to the fact that in a few years, he could be a great guy…if I can just hold on longer or keep him in my life in some capacity. Does NC mean NC forever?
I think that Sheila did the absolute right thing. Honestly.
She showed that not only can she be civil, but, she is not going to stop doing whatever the heck she wants, regardless of whether or not he is there.
It’s a small town, it’s going to happen.
If anything, it showed him that she is the bigger person. And if I am not mistaken, that is exactly what the friend was thinking by not letting her leave.
You can’t let them continue to have that kind of power over you, especially leaving a public place. That screams drama and that you can’t handle it.
Who cares what he thinks, or his impression of the situation.
Sheila should be concerned with herself.
Good girl Sheila
🙂
i appreciate Brad’s perspective, but to be honest with you, i cannot be bothered analyzing Hello, hi, how are you, are any other greeting.. I can guarantee that my EUM did not put that much thought into what i said.. he is too self consumed… I was not going to look bitter, and i have know him for 5 years, so i was mature about it.. trust me he got the hint.. I did not engage after that, an immediately turned away from him and continued my conversation… Yes, i probably should have left so i could have peace of mind, but i know people who play the “i won’t acknowledge you game” and i think they look like spiteful immmature losers..
Yes, he hurt me, but he will not break me and by me ignoring him and leading on to him that i am that hurt by him. Should i care? probably not, but i still have some pride, and i’m trying to salvage it and i think i did very well that night under the circumstances.. To say that my EUM analyzed what i did, i feel, is totally ridiculous. He got the message…. loud and clear and looked as if I have moved on from him and could give a shit.. But, yes, i would have left….
I understand what NC is, trust me, and i’m over a month of it right now, but i’m not hibernating in this small state, nor am I going to the places he goes either.
I guess we can agree to disagree…
I just didn’t think the purpose of this website is to critique and analyze how we are choosing to handle our relationships with EUMs or anyone for that matter. Women who are involved with EUMs, and who are trying to gain a more positive outlook in their lives need to be able to have a safe place to vent, process, understand, learn and grow. That’s what I thought this website was all about…..?
Brad, of course, I’m not Sheila but I don’t think you or anyone else here owes anyone any apologies. We all come to this forum with different experiences to gain new perspectives. I believe it’s okay to give your opinion. You were not rude or disrespectful. You spoke your truth and that’s what this forum is all about. I think that we should all encourage each other to speak honestly as long as it is respectful. We are adults and can agree to disagree. I learned alot from your comments and from everyone else’s and I would hate for anyone to stop giving honest opinions. Something in NML’s article or perhaps even in the comments will click and give me and others what we need to move past this stage in our lives on to bigger and better things. (I don’t want to sound preachy but I like open discussion alot.)
agreed.. no hard feelings at all..
OK at this point I think I should intervene as I feel that the ‘tone’ of the comments is nosediving and I don’t want 1) people to feel that they are being attacked and 2) for it to appear like any one person is being ganged upon.
The trouble with comments, forums, and form of place where you have the opportunity to put something out there is that you invite commentary from others and it may not always be your point of view. Remove Brad and it could be anyone, male or female, who could say worse or less.
I am not here to censor anyone and usually the comments have a way of ironing themselves out because this site has been very good at self moderating, but at the same time, I don’t want to feel that my site is becoming a hostile environment. To anyone.
I have been conversing with Sheila for a few months now. I don’t mollycoddle her and I do deal in cold, hard facts, simply because if people were looking for someone to tiptoe around them, they wouldn’t be at this site. It is about learning and processing and growth, but I don’t deal in BS, and sometimes readers follow suit. The difference is that if I say something or even certain other regular commenters, it is expected from me. Brad doesn’t get the same reaction from all readers; quite the opposite, but this is not the first time we have been down this road between you both hence why I felt the need to intervene.
And actually, many readers do critique and analyse their relationships and their actions on here and privately via email. It’s a habit of women, and especially of Fallback Girls to want to understand something so they can find a solution, and they usually want a solution that involves them not having to leave the guy.
My very brief take on the situation – You could look the situ in two different ways; ignore him or don’t, and actually neither one of these things matter in the grander scheme of things. It’s what happens *afterwards* that matters. If the person is analysing it, still heavily emotionally invested, obsessing about what to do next, then the effort into either one of these actions could be detrimental. I am obviously saying this in a general sense and if Sheila doesn’t give a monkey’s about him and the experience is done and dusted with, who cares?
But if the amount of thought during and after the action is disproportionate to the action (as in much bigger), then there are problems. Only Sheila knows and at the end of the day, part of the growth process is learning what feels right and what feels wrong. Sometimes we’ll make mistakes and often we get it right if we are trusting ourselves that we are doing the right thing at that time.
This site means something different to every reader and it is up to them to determine their experience. If they want to critique or be critiqued, then so be it, but all I ask is that even though you can have opposing views, let’s keep things in the nature of the site – empowerment, self-love, and knowledge, however you choose to get there.
If this issue cannot be resolved, I will close the comments on this post. It’s not what I like to do but if it makes things easier, so be it.
I just saw after commenting that a few more comments have come through since Brad’s.
Sheila – Sorry.
Well, I’m a little late to the conversation but I do want to say to Sheila that I completely get the whole RI/small town reference. In Map Dot, if i throw a stone there’s a damn fine chance it’ll hit the ex EUM. The last time I ran into him at the bar, I felt a hand on my a$$ and, of course, there he was. I snapped “Oh no you didn’t!” and he tried to explain. I walked away. My point is, in a small environment, it’s going to happen and how you deal with it is how you deal with it.
I certainly don’t think anyone here means disrespect…ever. It’s emotional stuff we’re discussing and there are bound to be differences of opinions. But I think we all feel as if it’s a place we can come for help, love and support and know that we are understood. More importantly for fallback girls, we know we, and our opinions/feelings, are important and are valued. That’s so huge!
NML, there’s no one on the planet whose opinions and ideals I respect more than yours. You have helped give me my life back and everyone here, whether they agree or disagree with me, has had a hand in that.
Hello All….First off this is my first time to this site and can I just say Thank You for all of this Information…I have been an emotional mess for almost 6 months due an Emotionally Unavailable man and it is Ironic that he has done everything that is posted here. We have been dating for almost a year but the last 6 months has been total Hell….So any advise here…My emotionally unavailable man lives 4 town houses down..we have to constantly see each other which is extremely hard on me…He tells me his reason for his actions is that he was hurt terribly by an old relationship and he has put up walls…I wish he could let them down and move on but feel that will never happen…I will take any and all advise…as this is ripping me apart..Emotionally.
I am on day 4 of no contact and this article was really helpful. The part about him retreating so that I don’t expect him to be around really hit home. My EUM of 2 years really let me down this week. I had vacation plans an hour or so away from where we live this week, my 40th birthday was Wednesday. He was supposed to come down the shore and take me out. Other people were coming and going all week, but I didn’t have anyone coming on Wednesday because we were going to spend the day together just the two of us. He texted me Tuesday morning to say he couldn’t get out of work and that he would be there on Thursday. What a lame excuse! We had been planning this for months. After I got really pissed, he said he would get out half day and be there by Wed evening. I told him not to bother, if I have to throw a hissy fit to get him to show up when he says he is going to its not worth it. After many nasty texts back and forth I stopped answering him. The last text I sent was Wed morning thanking him for ruining my vacation and my 40th birthday all in one shot. It almost seems like he did this on purpose to sabatoge the relationship. It feels like he wanted me to break up with him so he did the meanest thing he could think of. I was so humiliated in front of my friends and relatives when they asked me how my Bday went and I had to tell them that I was stood up.
Anyway this article and many others on this website are helping me to answer the questions I have about my EUM. Thanks NML.
STAY STRONG..SUZIE…Mine does not even know that I am walking away for good…Guess he will find out when he actually takes the time to call me on Monday or Tuesday…then I will begin my counts….so feel free to keep us posted so we can help each other get through this together and regain our Lives .
Hi Lizzie, that is going to be tough with your EUM living so close. Mine lives in the same town but we rarely run into eachother when we are out and about. We do have some connections as his sister in law used to date my brother and they are still really good friends. I worked with an ex boyfriend and at first it was really tough, but it does get easier, when you are truly over someone and have moved on and are happy it doesn’t matter whether you see them every day or never.
Your EUM sounds like he could benefit from seeing a therapist to get over the past relationship. If he has built up walls he really shouldn’t even be dating at all until he learns to trust again. We have all been hurt by someone at one time or another but each new person we date deserves to be judged by their own behavior not by the behaviors of our past partners.
I have not implemented the no contact rule because I know I would break it, for me to say it to him I would have to mean it and stick to it so I haven’t said it because it would weaken my position when I eventually get to that spot. I have reached this point in past relationships so I know I can do it. But what I would really like to know is even when you are faced with all the truth how do you make that final break and break the addiction ?? Thats where I’m stuck I see the truth know the truth yet a small part of me is hanging on but for what I don’t know..
Tulipa, How about this? What you pretend, comes true.
If you pretend to be asleep, and lay in bed and close your eyes, if you try to relax as if you were asleep, and slow your breathing as if you were asleep, and try to lay quietly as if asleep – more than likely you will next be waking up.
If you don’t want him to know you slipped on the No Contact Rule, then just begin without saying anything to anyone (besides the hundreds of us here, hoping for the best for you!). Then imagine that someone that understood what needs to be done were there instead of you. Pretend that person that knows better answers the phone but won’t talk to *him*. Pretend that person with hurt and hope and dreams finds a reason, every time, to let the next call, next email, next trip to ‘but he might be there’ – just let the need to make that contact go. Pretend that the lady that wants to heal so very badly guides your hands and your head to make the right choice, each time an opportunity to ask, “but does he care for me now?” Just pretend that someone would see the truth – and choose to make the right call (that is, *not* to call!) that next time. And keep pretending that someone that doesn’t hurt so badly let’s their head guide them through this time of grieving. What can it hurt? At the most, your imagination could fail.
Does pretending mean you are deliberately creating a new dream, one where the dream is about surviving the changes and loss of the No Contact Rule? Maybe.
Most big changes that people make are done when trauma interrupts their life, and continuing on isn’t a choice any longer. An alcoholic has to ‘hit bottom’ before real recovery happens.
The tactic of making a list of the good times that you want to remember about you and your time with him is important. You have invested part of your life in this past relationship, and there are always things you learned, moments of joy, and accomplishments that garnish that time of your life. We need to cherish the brightness of our days, to keep their memories alive for tomorrow.
Except that right now you need an objective list of the hurts that you have suffered, because of his presence in your life. You need to list each disappointment, each hurt, each deceit, each moment of his disrespect, your fear and anger. You need an emotional firebreak. You need the anger, and the hurt, and the rage that someone hurt you carelessly. You need to tape that list onto your phone. You need to make another list of the same hurts, and post it next to the computer. You need to build an anger shield, that puts strength into *why* you are following the rules for No Contact. And you should keep that anger and hurt and determination to avoid more pain from an unworthy EUM handy. Keep the anger where it will do some good – by reminding you that you have an alternative to calling or talking to him or emailing – you can keep to yourself, and heal.
And remind yourself every morning, that you don’t have to invent a ‘great enemy’ to make you ready to change. *He* chose to be your Great Enemy. *He* chose to hurt and deceive, and to disrespect your affections. You don’t have to create a Great Enemy, *he* made himself an enemy to you.
Luck.
Having been a Fallback girl that has experienced yo-yo behavior with my ex-EUM, I agree with this post. One thing I would like to add is that sometimes people have ex-EUMs that they have to or choose to engage with. It could be due to having a child together, working together, having friends in common.
In my opinion, if you choose to remain engaged with the ex-EUM – whatever the level of connection, you must accept that the romantic relationship is over and there is no future with your ex-EUM. Even when they are sniffing around, even when they are texting you, emailing you or begging you to spend time with them in a “romantic” or even “friendship” type manner.
If you can’t accept that it’s over, if you are still trying to “understand” why he is the way he is – then you shouldn’t be engaging.
If you can accept the situation, then go ahead and engage in a professional or personal yet somewhat detached manner.
My thought here is, we probably will find that engaging in this manner is very blase and we will just leave it behind (either mentally or both literally and mentally) and be free to focus on other people and things.
What if he turns it up and says he’ll change and say he wants you in his life and can’t live without you? I have to admit – I told my friend the other day that is still a secret wish of mine – to hear my ex-EUM say that. And her comment to me was that I should just say “I’m sorry, I’m just not interested any longer.” And after thinking it over – I know she is right. My situation – he won’t do that anyway. But I just have to let go of that fantasy and accept that it was not meant to be.
I’m 80% there. I’ve been meeting quality men lately and at this stage, I am just getting to know them and getting used to not chasing after someone that is not available. At first it was very uncomfortable. But – I am learning so much. And it really feels good to just live in the moment and accept things the way they are. The other day a guy asked for my phone number and called and he wants to take me out to dinner. I didn’t have to chase him at all. I was just receptive. He’s been a gentleman. I have no idea where this may go – but – I am just over the moon that I finally have a smile on my face about someone new that I am not chasing. And about whom I am not making any assumptions until I get to know him and see how things progress.
Hi Suzie…So tell me when your EUM started displaying signs of his emotionally unavailability….Has it been the entire relationship ?
Mine started acting up about 6 months ago when I ask what we were…I guess if you hang out 3-4 times a week and have sex 3-4 times a week…in my book I consider that a relationship. He said I cannt give you a full blown relationship…Said he just cannot give me what I need so took what I could get from him because I enjoyed spending time with him…He says and all of the people that know him tell me how badly he was hurt in an old relationship…and that the minute he starts feeling for me he walks away and gets distant for fear of falling for me…which leaves me feeling like What the Hell did I do to turn him off…?? We have broken up and then he aways regrets it and we get back together but then he pulls the same disappearing act for a few days…Its making me Crazy but am Finally feeling strong enough to walk away…with a lot of support from my friends. Do you think their is any hope for this type of eum??
In the mean time I am dating and doing my thing …He needs to see that I have a life outside of him…as he does with me. Maybe in 6 months he will finally wake up but I will no longer be around and he can live with the What If Factor.
Lizzie, my EUM came on really strong in the beginning. He was also hurt very badly by his wife of 18 years. She cheated on him and eventually left him for another man. I started seeing him as soon as she moved out. I told him it was too soon and he should take time for himself but he disagreed. After a few months he started backing off. We have broken up many times. The longest we went without talking was 5 months. It is the same with him, whenever we start getting really close he backs off. Then we breakup because i pressure him for more and then we don’t talk for a few weeks and then he comes back telling me it will be different this time. Same old cycle.
I personally do not feel these men ever change. I think if a man really wants you nothing will stop him from making time to be with you. I am a single mom of a 3 year old and was content for the past 2 years just seeing my bf once a week. I reallly didn’t want to ever get married or even live with someone. Now I have decided that I am ready for more. I have seen many women on here who have spent many years with these EUMs and they never change. When another man was calling me my EUM briefly was very jealous and seemed to have changed but it was only temporary. Once he knew the other guy wasn’t a threat he went back to his old ways.
I am glad that you are dating others and not just waiting around for him. Maybe you will meet someone who will make you forget all about him. I was with my EUM for over 2 years and need to wait a few months before I get back out there.
Thank you again Brad don’t have time on my side to type more. I always have to go through this obsessive stage but Im better at it this time. more later and thanks all helps to know you aren’t alone
Brad K., thanks for your post, you are correct in what you say about moving on from hurtful relationships. Over the weekend I did a lot of thinking about my ex-EUM and where we are now. I remembered the good times and the times at the beginning when we were getting to know each other and spending time together. I don’t have feelings of anger toward him anymore, I guess I mainly have sorrow for him that he is so disconnected from his true feelings and true self. I don’t blame him, and I also don’t blame myself. I just know that our “relationship” was meant to fail for all kinds of different reasons, and I am part of that equation, but I am not going to beat myself up about it. It is what it is….
Dear SuzieQ,
Sounds like we are dating the same man. Two days before my 40th bday this year, my man initiated a fight on purpose.
He moved to Panama City, FL and now we are 10 hrs away from one another. I finally decided to let go because I realize that I can never trust him.
Its time for me to have faith and belive that better is in store.
Happy Belated 40th Birthday! You deserve someone treasuring you.
namaste
my eum is still in my picture. i can’t shake him. i do adore him but really he gets me so upset. here is the big picture – he and connect mentally and physically – but he is indian and his family would “prefer” that he marry someone of his own ‘type”…. rich indian family. he is way influenced. that said, i respect that but still he messes in my yard knowing he can’t be with me. recently i got my yoga teacher certification. (it helps me cope with life and such) and he was so excited for me. he went and got a tattoo on his wrist (the om symbol), a yoga symbol) i saw it, i said wow gorgeous tattoo. he said oh yea this.. it is just something i felt like doing. he was happy i loved it but still what the heck is that man… nothing. still i sit home alone and he rings me late, late and then early morning to see why i didn’t answer his call. because he makes me cry… and then i try to say well go get yourself another babe to play with and he says he doesn’t play with me. it is circumstance and it is what it is and i need to respect it….
recently he told me his assistant checks his phone messages when he is away on business. she apparently had something to say about a message i left him. and he said please don’t do that. i am saying this out of respect for you… ok, lovely but why the he… is the assistant commenting on me. i don’t know man, i am having such trouble breaking this. i don’t get the eum thing. he is my first and only. i dump other assclowns fast and furious. but this one wrecks me… first for not standing up to his family and second for getting that darn tattoo… any thoughts, ladies and gents.. peace.
Brad K,
Update…So I left the office last nite around 6:30 and as Im on the escalator I hear his voice behind me on his phone (like always!!!!)
I don’t turn around and I continue reading the NY Times newspaper-he comes up behind me and taps my shoulder and says “oh I didn’t know
You knew how to read†(while on the phone). I turn around and give him a look but I don’t say anything. How messed up is that for him to say??
Talk about trying to lower ones self esteem.
Anyway I get off the escalator and he then says “can I get a hug, how are youâ€???? I don’t hug him but I do answer him and say “Im fineâ€. At the
same time Im walking in to my bank to go to the ATM…he then says “ Im practically following you, can you just stop walking for a second and
talk to me???†I stop and say “what is it???†He then says “hows your summer, how are you, wow you look so good†and as hes staring @ me
up and down he repeats “you look real good†Wtf is that supposed to mean???? Was I supposed to look broken and worn out??? Anyway when he said
that I kindve laughed and I said “thanks but listen I gotta goâ€. I turned around and left him standing there-he gave me this shocked, I know you’re not
leaving me here standing look. It felt sooooooooooooooooo good to do that to him but @ the same time why did I feel so guilty for being mean to him???
I almost wanted to txt him and apologize for being rude!!! I didn’t!!!! But im left confused…..did I look bitter, did I do the right thing??? Wtf does he want from me??
Healthiernow, thanks for the kind words! There are so many of the EUM’s out there. I broke it off with him but I am terrified of being alone. I am so afraid I will never find someone to love again. I guess like you said I have to have faith that God will put someone in my path. I really have to restrain myself from texting him and making up. He has been trying and I have been really mean to him to try to get him to go away because I know I will weaken.
Kendra, I don’t know your whole story but what you did to your EUM was great! You don’t look bitter and don’t apologize for being rude. You spoke to him but cut the conversation first. Good for you!
Hi Kendra, this is a classic “EUM Sniff Out” where they come sniffing around to check “the temperature” of your life. It’s almost funny to me that almost all of us who post here have had our EUMs come sniffing around occasionally to see what we are up to, and they all pretty much follow the same pattern. And then, of course, we read WAY too much into it, and think that they must want us back, etc. etc. because they made the HUGE effort to “contact us”, which is usually an effort that happens totally by accident, i.e., running into us at the elevator, by the coffee machine at work, etc. I truly don’t know why these EUMs feel the need to have to “check up” on us like that because we know that they aren’t interested in having a relationship with us so WHY DO THEY BOTHER????. Every now and then my ex-EUM will send me a stupid e-mail at work like “What did you do this weekend…blah blah blah” and I can’t figure out why he even bothers at this point.
I wouldn’t read anything into it–I would keep the NC going and stay strong. You work with him, right? I work with my ex-EUM also, and I know it sucks to have to keep running into them, etc., but still keep the NC….it’s the only way….
Finallyover it-you’re so right. I looked @ what happened last nite and I let it take over my nite and my sleep.
All over guilt for walking away from him and leaving him standing there. How many times had he left me standing
by myself confused? How many times was I left alone waiting for him or waiting for his response to my text that never came??
I needed to snap out of it. Hes a jerk and he can keep sniffing all he wants-hes going to get treated the same way!!!
Unfortunatley yes we work in the same company….but im so glad the powers have shifted and I don’t look pathetic and needy.
If anything its him who looks pathetic!! Thanks ladies!
Kendra, also your comment about feeling guilty because you left him standing there–a couple of weeks ago, my ex-EUM and I ran into each other while getting the train to work, and were walking together talking as we approached the train, and when I got to the ticket machine, I said to him, “I need to get a ticket.” thinking that he might wait with me so we could sit together…..well, he just left me standing there and got on the train without me! What a jerk! So, I was dumb enough to feel bad that we couldn’t sit together and talk, so at lunch that day I asked him to go to lunch with me….he consented to grace me with his presence, and we had a nice time at lunch, but that was it….he never reciprocated and has done nothing to make contact with me since then. This is another example of how brain dead they are–we worry about hurting their feelings, and they turn around and treat us disrespectfully and don’t give it a second thought…..
Oh wow-thx for sharing Finallyoverit-what a jerk!!! I hope yesterday my EUM thought the same of me. I rather be thought of as a b*tch than as a spineless, eager to please, desperate woman!!!
Kendra, I was feeling really guilty about ending it with my EUM. He kept texting me trying to get me to respond. Af first I ignored him and then I sent a mean reply hoping he would go away. His reply to that made me feel like a monster. I was so upset over it. So today I sent an apology e mail. I got no response. So then I sent a text saying that I would like to talk and see if we could make up. I got no response again. It was all a power struggle. When I was ignoring him he couldn’t stand it! He did whatever he could to get me to respond and when I did he ignored me. Such childish games. I am not going to let it bother me that I was the last one to respond. I am just going to learn a lesson from the experience and not do it again. Don’t let guilt get to you. They deserve the silent treatment and it doesn’t mean you are a bad or bitter person if you ignore them.
Kendra, On the escalator you were teetering between social conventions. On the one hand you were trying to be polite and courteous in public, on the other hand you were trying to protect yourself from an affair of the heart gone bad.
From a self-defense point of view, walking away, giving curt answers helped enforce an emotional distance, and took you one step closer to living past the relationship.
From a courtesy perspective, though, short answers to one you knew well is a social gaffe. It is rude to not put the other person at his ease. You know better – and that is where the guilt comes from. Courtesy is a wonderful habit, we strive to avoid conflict, to be gracious to those around us.
But.
This guy isn’t safe for you. He causes you emotional distress, even today. Your need to protect your emotions and your life from his influence has to come first. Yes, you feel guilty for the social abrasions and for the discourtesy. But understand that is just a consequence of the No Contact Rule. A certain amount of discourtesy to him is an important part of winning yourself a safe place and safe time for healing, for setting reasonable goals, for getting to know yourself once again. Amongst all the dreams and broken dreams, the expectations and plans and accomplishments of your life, your needs have changed. It will take time and emotional distance to discover who this new you is. You *have* to have that safe distance from him and his disturbance in your life.
There were several conversations going on during that incident. While he was on the phone, his lame joke (didn’t know you could read) was distracted and meant to be an ice breaker. He took you for granted. And he was a bit alarmed that his casual relationship with you wasn’t going as he expected.
When you walked away, he started to understand that he lost not only an intimate relationship, but a casual ‘friendship’ as well. In addition, he felt your hostility. He was astonished that you reacted as if he hurt you, he had not considered himself to be a hazard, someone that you needed to defend yourself against.
That was likely quite a bit of social intercourse for an escalator encounter.
About the guilt. You will need to be consistent in defending you, your space, and your emotions from his shenanigans. But the guilt is real, and you do have to be careful not to over-react to others. It would be too easy, right now, to withdraw from every guy, or every person, to fall into habits of discourtesy. So just be clear in your mind that he is the only one you are defending yourself against, that you are defending yourself and that he is not part of a social engagement. And do please continue to snub him, out of self-defense.
As I read these post…I continue to shake my head at how many EUM their are…I thought I was alone in this but see that you are all going through the same emotional abuse as I am….I keep thinking he will change and wake up to what he is doing to me or even realize what a great person he has right in front of him…But he never does…
We had broke up in mid june and did not talk for three weeks….and was finally feeling good…and dating…I had forgotten how nice it feels to be appriciated with someone who wants to spend time with me….But then 2 weeks ago…He followed me to the neighborhood bar that we used to hang out at and sat in his truck for 15 minutes before he had the nerve to come inside and he ask if he could buy me a beer and then proceeeds to tell me how much he has missed me….and of course stupid me I melted…We had a wonderful evening…he was so attentive and was so happy…..But by the following weekend he was back to his old selfish self…Oh yes he misses me but not enough to give up his fun weekends at the Islands….when he party’s with his friends but never invites me…while I sit home alone….and to be honest….He is not all that…I am not a shallow person however my EUM is 6′ 1″ and weighs about 280 pounds…I am 5’8″ and weigh 130…All of my friends tell me what do you see in him…and guess now I am asking myself the same thing…Is it simply because I want what I cannot have…or is it because the Sex is so powerful that it is addicting…..sorry for getting personal…Sometimes I think if he could just break down those walls we would be sooo good together…but it is what it is…..and he is so affraid of getting hurt again that he refuses to let me in…..IT IS MAKING ME SO DEPRESSED!!!! We are both older…He is 43 and I am 44…I guess I am just more Mature and do not party my life away.
\ So the last time I actually called him was last Friday evening ask him what he was doing and he acted as if I was bothering him by calling which I seldom do…And he says I am having dinner with my daughter I will call you later…and of course never heard from him. Then found out he went to the islands again to party.
While we were broke up I met a couple of great guys but was very honest with them about where I was at in my life….and they were totally cool and so we just hung out…And then when he screwed me over again the last couple of weekends I went out with one of the guys I had met while we were broke up….This man is Awsome…………..He text ‘s me just to say hi and we have gone out 3 or 4 times now…he has tried nothing but just wants to get to know me….and says he totally understands my situation…so what is wrong with me why do I want the asshole…
So this past Monday after not talking to my EUM since last Friday when I intereupted his dinner he has the nerve to show up at the bar and rub my back and say hi……I WAS SO STRONG…..I looked at him and said Hi and then continued my conversation with my friends…I DID IT….I acted like he did not even exsist….and it felt so good…and he went home alone….but so did I but at least I did not give in….The only reason he showed up was because he saw my car…and now he is asking all of my friends what is wrong with me…They simply tell him…FIGURE IT OUT!!
So I am trying to stay strong….God help me because I cannot go through this pain again…I have another date tomarrow with this great guy and am going to do my best to just have fun and forget about the Idiot….so wish me luck.
I am so glad I found this post…It has helped so much to see that I am not alone….My heart goes out to all of you that are going through what I am going through…and together WE WILL ALL GET STRONGER!!!
Dear Lizzie,
Its amazing how similar they all are. I too am older-40 and my EUM is 45. We have always had an incredible sexual relationship, wherein I truly believe that we are addicted to one another in that area. However, I do realize that this is the one area in his life that he is super sure of himself in. He is the ultimate charmer, pleaser and man of my dreams until there is someone else that turns his head. I have been on this rollercoaster so long, that my self esteem is wrapped up with him. As soon as he found out that I was even thinking of being with another, he acted jealous. I never cheated on him, and still pray that one day he will see too. I know mine has used alcohol in the past to forget his problems and now that he moved 10 hrs away, I dont know what hes doing and Im trying to not focus on him. But I still wake up and go to bed with him on my mind. I would stay with any of the new guys because insanity is doing the same thing over and over expecting different results. I know Im insane, as I still want my EUM. I truly believed he was the love of my life, he knows EVERYTHING about me, and I feel like a fool when he uses what ive told him against me.
These men/women know how to manipulate. I know Im sick, because I do see how self destructive it is to want someone who can have so much influence on my daily sanity. Unfortunately, There were so many good years, I have a hard time letting go.
I think part of it had to do with my own insecurity as he has 22 yr olds -and all ages of women hitting on him. He is extremely good looking and he knows how to play women.
PLEASE-get out if you can!!! You derserve to be with a man who wants you and makes you feel your best and loved all the time. Your EUM no he has you wrapped around your finger, and you proved him wrong!!!! CONGRATS!!!
Doesnt it seem that they have a radar when you are finally cutting the chords to them and taking care of yourself?
The hardest part is trying to decipher what was real and what wasnt.
Wish there was a suport group for this here. I joined Codependents anonymous and Al Anon. Its helping me a bit with why i react the way i do with him.
Stay Strong. Hope you have great dates! We all deserve to be happy
DEAR HEALTHIERNOW,
Thanks for taking the time to respond to my post…It helps so much…to hear I am not alone..The hardest part for me is that he lives 4 houses away…so we run into each other often…But he is in Michigan for two weeks visiting his family…So I think I will take these two weeks and regain my sanity..Out of Site Out of mind.
I also have to regain my self esteam…as it is no where to be found…at this point except when I am with this new guy..I wish you the best and if you ever need someone to chat with or vent feel free to drop me a line…We can get through this together.
Have a great day !
In my case his words are “I don’t want a relationship”, yet he was calling/emailing/hanging out every day and then disappearing for weeks. It has become completely platonic over the course of the year and a half – he doesn’t even look for sex anymore.
And I have analyzed it to death like everyone here has. I’ve read all the articles, looked at all the issues from different angles and hoped that this was different than others’ situations. But then I flip flop between analyzing and getting to the point of realization where it doesn’t matter – it doesn’t matter what his issues/problems are. They are not my problems so why am I dealing with them?
I admit that I do, in fact, have fears of a relationship taking over my life and me losing who I am stemming from a previous relationship with a cheater. So perhaps this is my “emotional unavailability” that is contributing to my situation. However, I would love NOTHING more right now than for someone to come along who is fun and makes me laugh and feel attractive. I envision it. I create the vision in my head of someone consistent – getting up in the morning, eating breakfast, travelling, having fun… consistently with no question of why he’s doing something or why he’s not doing something. You need to focus on what YOU want, not what he wants/don’t want/is doing/not doing.
You have to eventually get tired of feeling dragged down by this negativity. I know I am. Just let go.
anonymous.. i could not agree with you more.. tired of being dragged down and tired of the negatiivity.. i have about 7 books trying to help myself and explain his actions, and I am so sick of it..
I truly believe that you see the light when you just decide you are done feeling down, and tired of not being happy…
then.. let goooooooooooooooooooooooo
Get this ladies HE WANTS US TO GET BACK TOGETHER!!!!-you read it right!!! This morning we had a company meeting on another floor…I go to it and guess whos sitting in the crowd???? So I by pass him to get to my seat and I say “Hi” and keep walking to the front to grab a seat. Sure enough 5minutes later he comes and sits across from me in the front as well. So he literally got up from his old seat to move closer to me. The whole time hes staring @ me on and off..I ignored him..Meeting ends and I come back downstairs to my office-I get a call from a number I do not recognize I pick up-its him!!!! He asks me if the sparkle in my eye that he saw was bc of him. I said “No the sparkle you see has been there all along ever since I left you” He then says”Wow that hurts”..anyway he asks me if he still has a chance with me and that he misses me and wants me back. Said that hes a different man now and the 4months away from me has showed him he cant be w/o me. Hes changed, blah,blah and that he wants to see me. I then asked him why couldnt he be the man i wanted him to be when he had me….He then says “That was the past, Ive changed and I want you. I will prove it to you.” I then asked about his GF-he gets upset and says that was in the past and says he will do anything to prove to me he doesnt have one. He even said if i wanted to move in w him for a month to prove he doesnt have one then I can….My boss then walked in my office so i couldnt talk further and he was heading into a meeting as well…He then said he will call me later so we can continue the conversation and for me not to give up on him……………………………………………. I CANT go back to him…I finally feel whole again…..hes put me thru too much….Any advice??? I know i cant go back to that
hi kendra.i feel what you saying ,i am going thrugh it like you,but you know ,if he really want it you ,he wait four months ,ammmm,think ,he stayed four months with out you ,what makes you think ,he will stay,no way ,this is a yo yo ,keep going round and round ,keep moveing on ,couse you will fall in the same ols story ,dont you think ,i think you do ,i know what i am talking abouth ,so keep going ,there is more fish in the sea ,if we stay with these men ,they keeo hurting us ,we wasteing time with these men ,i know its hard ,but we must be strong ,wish you luck ,but i think the only luck you have if you keep moceing on ,couse you will get hurt again ,,,,ok tc ,its hurtssssssssss
Oh Kendra I hope you stay far far far away from him because you know as soon as he has you again he will revert back to type its a game on his part. you have done so well please don’t go back ! for your sanitys sake etc. he is just messing with you because he knows your weak points. you are so right he had you and discarded you so now hes feeling left out of your life. good luck
kendra, Wow. I mean “oops!” You talked to him. He called, and you had a conversation beyond, “Oh, its you. Bye”
I mean this guy has rejoined the ranks of billions of guys that you aren’t interested in dating, and don’t have time to talk to. In fact, he is a known pest. He past performance has won him how much consideration and politeness from you? None. He is stalking you. Complain to your supervisor about his harassing you at work – explain that his attempts to contact you are upsetting, that he is making it difficult for you to work, that you are uninterested in talking to him, his behavior – shifting around in the meeting – is upsetting and distracting. There are protections from guys using company time to harass and intimidate and bully people. The way he is bullying and harassing you.
This is serious stuff. You need your supervisor to step in, the topic is sexual harassment, explain you want assistance getting the guy to behave in a professional manner, and not a slavering pervert in the back room of a seedy bar!
You and he have proved, time and again, that he is unable and unwilling to hear what you have to say. This means that you *have* to be *direct* and clear. No contact means no contact. He does *not* get an explanation. Keep anything that you say direct and impersonal, and refuse to utter one word about the past, about dating, about your time, or anything else you wouldn’t discuss with your garbage collector – which is about the social cache this schmuck has earned for himself.
Complaining about harassment to your supervisor should earn him a warning from his boss. If he is bright enough to shut up and straighten out his act, great. If he contacts you on company time again, you *have* to follow up, and report the contact to your supervisor. That would be unsuitable and illegal behavior. The company deserves notice of his improper behavior, and you would be betraying your company to withhold information about his abuse of company time and resources for his sordid personal life.
He has created a ‘hostile work environment’ for you. You are not relaxing and preparing for another day of work – you are panicked about dealing with his shenanigans. One reason your reaction is so strong is that he ambushed you, bullied you, took advantage of you at a place that had been ‘safe’ from dating turmoil – your workplace. You owe it to yourself and to your company to identify this wart as a sexual harasser.
For him? You *dare* not give him anything like an explanation. Whatever else he has changed, he does *not* respect you, does *not* respect your choices, and does *not* care about anything but what he wants .. for the moment. *Do* limit what you say to him, to as precious few words as possible. Keep to statements. Avoid social phrases like, “How are you?” and “Okay?” Avoid all questions not *requred* by work. When speaking with him, always count off 10 seconds before every reply or statement to him. Be *sure* you avoid explanations. Never explain your choices, or your thinking, when the best answer would be, “No.” You might state, once, that you don’t care to speak with him, to hear from him, or to see him again. Never repeat anything, instead just keep silent.
Expect him to manipulate, to ‘sell’ you, to twist anything you say about you, about him, about dating, or relationships, or values, or history, or mutual friends – count out those 10 seconds every time, and speak only what is needed – “No.” If you use three (3) words together, I promise, promise, promise he will not hear the words, he will be thinking, “Great! I won! She’s talking to me, I can get anything I want now!” Watch the word count, be very careful of any word except “No”, don’t repeat things.
And my reasoning? Like all the other men you aren’t dating, you just don’t have anything to say that you want him to hear. So don’t say anything.
That would be my advice. Protect yourself from him, and stop rewarding him with your time, your attention, and with your conversation. You are just encouraging him. No Contact, dear, No Contact. It is safer that way.
Brad K and all,
Thanks for your input and advice. You all are absolutely 100pct correct. I have no intentions of entertaining going back to him.
Is it any surprise I DIDN’T hear from him last nite-NO!!! There wasn’t a follow up call or anything nor was I expecting it. Reason being is bc I didn’t jump at his declaration of undying love.
Also don’t think for a second that I don’t know what hes doing-which is trying to plant seeds in my head so that I can now be
the chaser and pursue him. He knows and notices that im very standoffish with him so now he wants to get on my good side to win what crappy of a relationship we had then he’s going to throw it back away.
That would’ve worked 2months ago not now. Im on the verge of complete healing & words like that cant phase me. My God 2months ago I would’ve been the one to follow up on the call with a txt or smthng saying
“can we talk?? How are you??†I would chop my fingers off before I attempt smthng so stupid. Not to mention since I now realize that the son and the moon does NOT set on him Im no longer blinded by the glare. I see him for what he is…With the upcoming wknd I may hear from him and continuous rejection is what he will get.
Brad K you’re right, it seems like ambushing me @ work is his way of operating bc truthfully I have no way of rejecting him here..I don’t think taking this to HR is the route I want to take. I don’t
Want my personal life known to the company..the truth is we had a relationship for close to 2yrs and would hate for HR to know we were lovers and now Im crying ‘rape’..I rather deal with him
in short doses..Rest assured Im not going back to this twisted, mental man!!!
Relief to find this site. My eum is in a sick situation
I have been with this guy for one and a half years. A week ago he broke up with me after an argument we had the night before and he did it over the phone. He was very cruel saying he never wanted to see me again that i am at fault for everything and that i should live with the consequences. This is the 4th time its happened (each time over the phone) over the last 8 or so months and we’ve been together for 1 1/2 years.
he has always had serious issues and he’s always been secretive. I know he is still hung up on his ex who is 20 years older than he is (she is 60 by the way) and they were together for 15 years. Many of our previous arguments were about him dissapearing or lying about where he was – when the evidence showed he was lying. He always denied any wrong doing. Yet he always said that he would never tell her – the ex he has a girlfriend and he was always very controlling of when he would and would not see me.
So a few days or so after every argument – apart from one of them where i was fed up i would call him and ask to talk – we would meet up and get back together nothing resolved though.
I love him very much but he was always evasive about any future commitment. He was always controlling moody and miserable – saying that he feels trapped and pressured but would never explain why. Anything i had at his place was always kept tucked away in draws when i left. sometimes the phone would ring when i was at his place and he would get all nervy.
The last argument was actually started by me. After he took my to the doctore about a gynaelogical problem i was having at night I started to cry and i said – maybe i wouldn’t be having these problems if i had a child by now. he said you’re in your 30’s you should know – i said i was confused and maybe i need a partner to re assure me. He said well i know what i want and i will always be alone right up into my 70’s. So i said to him then why do you get into relationships his answer was he likes companionship. I told him he was contradicting himself and all hell broke loose. He called me selfish he said i was pressuiring him for the next step and that i wanted my own way at any cost. he was really angry. The next morning i called him to see if he was ok and that the night before was not so pleasant etc. he screamed at me an hung up.
So he dissapears for a couple of days and when i call him he breaks up with me over the phone as per each other time. he said he didn’t love me and when i asked him well 2 days ago you were saying you did he said i was lying. He said its all my fault and that he would call me in a week to bring over my stuff. A few days before we were together all weekend and he said that i was the type he had been looking for and he loved me very much i am heart broken.
I called him a few days later asking to talk face to face again he refused and he said the cruelest things again – one of the worst was ‘I have Nicole (his ex) on my back – i dont need to have you too now’ he also said ‘you’re good looking young you will suffer like i am and you will meet someone else to give you a baby’ I said i dont want a baby what the hell is wrong with you stop being silly – he hung up on me i was devastated i sent a couple pleading texts nothing.
We have holidays booked in a week he hasn’t called. I can’t eat and i cant sleep i am crying all the time. How could he throw away what we have like that over a phone call.
Its like i am waiting for him to come back into my life – at least i want us to go away together
Am i wrong in thinking this guy can change?
I have to move on this guy has taken away all of my dignity
PS
He is still involved with the 60 year old in the past when he has dissapeared i have found out they were both on vacation leave from work.
he avoids places near here house for dinner shopping etc. Many times when he is at home he gets nervous when the phone rings or doesn’t answer. Once she called his mobile 9:30 on a sunday i looked at it it was her he lied to me and told me it was his best friend.
There are many many examples. he would set the tone of when we would and would nt meet and he would pick fights out of nothing to distance himself
he has left me a dishevelled wreck. I can’t understand this I am more educated and sucessful than he, but he has made me feel like a trophy – the official girlfriend he shows off while he dilly dances with the older woman who could be his mother…and she is not even attractive
I just dont get it
@Kendra, you have to know your own company. OSHA calls this sexual harassment, and hostile work environment. Federal courts call it harassment and assault, civil courts have awarded damages against companies and against guys ‘just being guys’. If this guy keeps stalking you, there is no limit to where it can go – and your supervisor, not HR, deserves a heads-up on what is going on. They deserve a chance to get this misbehavior on this guy’s permanent record. And you deserve the protection.
You say you don’t want to bring your personal life to the company. So what how do you explain a dread about answering your phone or checking email, just in case it is this guy?
Ask yourself, does keeping quiet feel, just a bit, like you are enabling his antisocial behavior? But some companies are hostile to women, are insensitive to sexual intimidation, and don’t defend their employees from harassment. You have to know who you work for, and which is the least risk to you, your emotional health, and your job.
@Elena, Actually, I think you were pressuring him to move beyond companionship towards a relationship. But then, I wonder why you are still with this guy that isn’t interested in being a mate to you? Where he goes and what he does when he disappears is a terrible hurt, and the ‘What If’s’ from accidents to whatever tear us up. But the important thing that I see, after sharing your life with you, is that he doesn’t respect you, he isn’t disciplined, and most of all, he doesn’t see you as being more than a comfortable sex buddy.
I am more concerned that he disappears, that he has broken up before, than whether he still continues with an old flame, or picks up others. As long as he sees himself as a guy having sex (probably a life-long plan for him, given his history and his statements), he will bounce from one happy, temporary bed to another.
No, he is not going to change. The words he utters, the things that you say don’t really count for that much. He isn’t busily building a family. He isn’t planning for the patter of little feet. He isn’t caring and nurturing of you, your feelings, and your happiness. He probably doesn’t see what he is doing, nor what he should be doing to be happier, to make life better for each of you. But he likely never will.
Last time I went to Wal-Mart I noticed the shopping cart crew (the hard workers that gather up carts from around the parking lot). And the cashiers. Each is important to Wal-Mart. The cashiers get paid better – their attitude and professionalism can win customers and increase the store’s revenue much more directly than the shopping cart crew. Some of the people on the shopping cart crew move to other positions, to cashier or some area of the store, maybe into management. But they move on from the shopping cart crew fairly quickly. The rest of the crew? They drift in, drift off to other work, maybe return.
Kind of like your guy. If he were interested in a family, if he were looking for a life-mate, he would have moved toward making a family – by being a mate to you, by respecting you and treasuring you as a life-mate should be treasured. Instead you get worry, you get disrespect, his actions and words hurt you, and you start to doubt whether your dreams and needs are worthwhile or wholesome.
This guy wants to leave, to avoid ‘pressure’ (which *would* have been an invitation, to a Real Guy). Wish him well, do your grieving over the loss of this part of your life. Read on this site about the No Contact Rule, probably talk to a grief counselor to help you understand about loss, about your emotional reaction and physical symptoms to the loss of one you have loved. And it is grief, whether you lose one to death or separation.
Cherish your affection for him, but face the objective truth that if he changes, it will not be from anything you do. And he won’t change to a responsible, respectful partner for you, that just never happens. It is time now to face your own healing, and anger, and denial, and, sometime, acceptance.
Blessed be.
I have maintained NC now for 4 weeks. I feel better but I still have my moments. I know it will get easier in time. The thing that gets me is even though the fool I was dealing told me to stay away and to leave him alone which I have been doing and a day at a time intend to do I also know that there will be a day when he will contact me again.
Debbie, there is a good chance that he will one day – and? What difference will that make? I am convinced when he makes contact, you will jump and the whole circus will start over. Is this really what you want? He treats you like s*it and you are willing to take more of it? For your own good I hope the fool will never contact you, so that you can move on. Stop waiting on this man, stop putting your life on hold.
Astelle,
I do try to keep myself as busy as possible. It’s just hard to imagine that after 4 yrs that this is the way he felt he needed to speak to me. I was nothing but good to this man. I know it will get better in time and I have started going out doing different things with other people. It will just take time.
Debbie, it will get better with time. He was extremely angry when you showed up at his work, doesn’t excuse the cussing – but can’t you really not see that this is stalking? Leave him alone, he told you to leave him alone, it will never work.
Keep busy, stick with NC.
Astelle,
Since all this happened I have not for the past 4 weeks even said Boo in his direction and don’t plan on it. I’ll do what needs to be done to protect me from being furthur hurt emotionally from this man. I have known for awhile now that a relationship with this man would never work I guess I was just caught up in the fantasy of what might have been.
I do hope for my sake that when the day comes that he contacts me I am in a totally different space from where I am right now and honestly tell him I’ve moved on.
Right, protect yourself from him, NC will do that. If he makes contact, don’t respond, I would not give him the courtesy to say I have moved on, if you don’t respond that will be his answer.
Hang in there and have a great weekend!
After reading these posts I guess all of them come sniffing around to see what’s up. I guess the one who cursed me out and screamed at me to leave him alone and stay away from him will eventually come sniffing to. I have the NC rule in effect for 4 weeks now. It is so damn hard like someone else said when the heart tells you one thing but you know that your mind is telling you to leave and left.
I am going through a really hard time coping. Brad K i feel the fool that the signs were there early on in the relationship and when i would mention contradictions he would smother over them telling me to give him time.
I never overtly pressured him but i guess as he saw that i wanted a long term commitment whatever that may be – moving in etc that was pressure for him and i should have realised this.
I know i am secretly waiting for him to come back to me but i guess as i read i another post – i will just get drawn into the cicus again. So the choice is mine i either stop it now or get back on the circus and not expect anything more than companionship sex – which really shows no respect for myself i guess.
I wrote him and email the other day – no emotions and all i said was yes i agree with the break up its for the best.
maybe my absence will make him realise some things about himself..
I really don’t know how to get past this and what emotional baggage it will leave me.
Just out of curiosity how many people here have been cursed out like a dog, got told to stay away and leave them alone and these damn EUM’s come back? This is what happened to me 4 wks ago and I haven’t heard from him since.
I have maintained the NC rule since then and have no desire to ever contact him again but would like to know if they contact you after saying such horrilble things or do they just move on to their next victim?
Debbie
My EUM was still with his ex secretly whilst in an official relationship with me.
He cursed me badly 3 times in the past when i questioned inconsistencies or aparent lies. he would go off on the phone – never to my face tell me i was at fault bla bla and would then come sniffing around a week later.
The fourth time 2 weeks ago it was really bad claiming he never loved me and never wants to see mee again – over the phone again and this was after i was being emotional about not having kids yet.
I called him again a few days later same thing.
He may contact me again he may not – but its not what he does as he is used to this pattern its what i do now.
I can either fall for his manipulation again or just move on.
I am hurting like hell – we were going away for 2 weeks in a fe days and i cant cancel my leave from work. I cant eat and i cant sleep. I am hating myself for putting up with the lies the inconsistencies and only giving giving giving and ony receiving ‘ a good time’
And if he does come back what next? More of the same?
Is not worth it not matter how much you love them
I dont think these guys ever change or when they do its too late – they’re alone and bitter.
Mine will move on to the next victim – show how sensitive and sweet he is and then he will go all cold again on her – he will repeat the same pattern most probably because the crunch is ‘they dont think they are doing anything wrong’ they dont have a conscience i am convinced of this
Sweetie try and be strong i know how you feel. I feel like the wind has been kicked out of me right now.
These guys love control and they manipulate you to a point where it starts to eat at your spirit.
Debbie, why would you want to hear from him again? If someone talked to me in that way I would be glad to be rid of him. You seem to be a little bit obsessed with this guy contacting you again. Is it that you are trying to anticipate if he will contact you again and how you should act when he does? Ignore him! If he gets the message he is allowed to talk to you like that, what next? Physical abuse? You need to stay away from this guy, period.
Thanks Brad
Truth be told – secretly i am wishing he will contact me and make amends but it will be more of the same. It is my ego talking here….i feel very rejected as a woman..
he tossed me out like rubbish over the phone – couldn’t even face me….
Men like this dont take responsibilty for their actions as they are devoid of it. How dare he accuse me of destroying everything? Why because i wanted someone to love me unconditionally i wanted someone to respect my needs/ fears etc??
At the sign of troube or issues these men are out the door, rather than sit down and work it out like any normal well adjusted person would.
Elena, “I really don’t know how to get past this and what emotional baggage it will leave me.” It seems you are doing great, even though it must feel more like confusion, despair, guilt, sorrow, loss, and just general depression – the absence of anything like happiness or joy, with a tired feeling to balance it all.
Focus on healthy eating, plenty of water, get plenty of sleep. Combining physical stress with emotional weariness just makes things worse, especially when your appetite is skewed or missing, and care for yourself seems the last thing you care about.
Don’t fret the emotional baggage you may be carrying next month or next year. Today is plenty enough to keep you busy! And day by day is a wonderful way to approach this event in your life.
Sleeping is a wonderful thing we do. At night our body relaxes, all the hormones and agitations and mental ruts tend to smooth out, many of the tatters of our emotions blend back into the tapestry of our feelings and beliefs about ourselves and what we perceive the world to be.
You are going through important changes, and change is generally measured in discomfort, if not actual pain. We cling to our daily thought patterns and our attachments to work, and friends and loved ones, and our interests as a matter of course. We assume we will continue tomorrow as we did yesterday and today. Changing the basic assumptions, the loss of the dreams and the places people no longer play in our lives, affects us physically and emotionally, and also mentally. We have to figure out how to bridge across the gaps in our lives.
Grief is the process we go through when we lose someone to separation by choice or by circumstance. We know about the denial, the anger, the eventual acceptance, and the gradual settling into an altered life pattern as we heal. No one knows how they will manage the adjustment. Caring and responsible friends and family help a bunch. Venting, talking or writing through the emotions help to relieve the worst stresses. We question our values and our expectations, we identify dead ends and find better choices for moving on from the loss. Talking with someone experienced in dealing with grief can be a great help, a pastor or counselor or even grandparents.
Just get through each day without letting yourself be hurt even more – No Contact is a great protection – and let your sleep help the healing as you practice living on each day.
Brad,
My question to you is why is that these men who do such things as curse us women out like dogs, tell us to leave them alone and to stay away from them and other disrespectful behaviors are the same ones time after time always seek to come back. My logic tells me that if some tells me to leave them alone first of all that’s what I would and second I wouldn’t expect to ever hear from them again that whatever we had was over and done with. Again why do they come back?
Elena, “i feel very rejected as a woman” – But you are rejected! Thank God!
I don’t want to belittle his disrespect. But his disrespect was always there, even when he wasn’t using harsh words. That was always true. Disrespect isn’t something related to anger, or incidents – it is a lifetime habit. He was disrespectful when you met, he will be disrespectful ten years from now. Standing near a disrespectful person erodes our virtues, let alone trying to live with one. The shock is not the harsh words, but that you stuck around long enough to hear them.
Seriously, we aren’t in high school any more. Dates don’t define our weekend, nor does an intimate companion define our life.
So he broke up. That is important. How, or why, or anything else about the circumstances won’t cause the sun to dim next year. Well, maybe if he had marooned you on an asteroid that would hit the earth and raise a dust cloud that blotted out all sunshine, maybe. But short of that (and I doubt he has the resources), the important point is that you now have a life that isn’t about dating him.
What you want is to put your affections and attachments on hold. You don’t want to replace him with another guy. When you have healed, when you are ready to be the life-mate that a good man would want, then let a few trusted, respected married women-friends know you want something more in your life. Keep an eye out for an honest man busy being respectful, courteous, and who is also available. You don’t want to replace this guy, you want to court a life-mate. Don’t fantasize about a guy being good in bed; fantasize about whether your kids would grow well with him as a father (and keep the results to yourself for a few years!).
Even if you aren’t interested in kids, the qualities that make a good co-parent make a wonderful companion in a long-term relationship.
I so agree with Brad, this man has nothing to lose. This is going on for 4 years, he can do whatever he wants, treats you like dirt and he knows that you will always be back for more. Saying, why do these men come back, I don’t think this is correct in your case, you were the one keeping up the contact. Didn’t you say you called every weekend to see what is going on, if he has time? Basically checking in with him, he didn’t have to do anything besides saying yes or no.
I hope for you you will never hear from him again.
Keep in mind, he knows that you love him, he thinks he knows you, you will always be back, cutting the contact is your only way out.
Abuse is abuse – what is next? Physical abuse?
If you ever make contact with him again, he will treat you worse.
debbie, I am not sure why you are worried about this. He is gone – that is important. He wants to come back? Why, this time you have a negative ‘relationship report’. And his score dropped off the bottom of the page. He is not just a poor relationship risk, with flaws that can be handled – he is an active danger to your health and to your emotional well-being.
Why does he come back? He has nothing to lose.
If you fall for his line, he Wins! (Winning is more important than any partner’s happiness.) Not only does he feel better than someone (you), he gets a shot at an ‘easy’ sex partner for a while. Besides, his abuse might have taught you something he found important (like whipping a dog until the thing has no spirit, only an abyssal urge to cuddle in the hope of avoiding further punishment). If you let him return to his previous position, you enable and encourage him to continue his abuse – you are rewarding him for bad behavior with access to you.
Coming back to you means he doesn’t have to go through the dreary (for him) process of finding another biddable bedmate, he doesn’t have to break in someone new to take his crap and be ‘nice’ to him like he wants.
He has no reason to stay away, if you let him come back. And coming back to you is easier for him, less work.
Besides, if he doesn’t try, he might feel rejected or that he lost something.
See? He has nothing to lose, if you take him back.
Regardless of what he proclaims, he is *not* coming back because he has a need to be your companion. You don’t win if you reject him, withdraw your attention and your affection from him – we both know that. But he won’t see it that way. He will see that you are trying to punish him (for something he thinks is trivial, or that you imagined). Take him back, though, and he sees that you treated him badly (and that he should punish you, sooner or later). Take him back, and he will see your forgiveness as weakness, as an admission you were wrong (and that he needs to punish you, etc.).
We keep saying that No Contact is a shield, a protection, a safe place for healing, when dealing with an EUM. An EUM is a danger to himself and others in a relationship. No one can afford to be within range when an EUM goes off, and they are harmful between explosions.
Brad K et al,
I caved in…hooked up w my EUM this past wknd…waste of time..
Kendra,
It sounds like you got off easy, this time. EUM’s are famous for serious hurts.
Brad K
Yes I did get away easy I suppose but its only bc I know what my EUM is all about.
In saying that its not to say that when I first broke NC back in April I wasn’t seriously hurt-I was really bad.
This time around did not affect me as much and if anything I realize im not missing much.
We haven’t spoken since but I do know it’s not the end and I realize that the doors are now swung wide open for him to come back.
I can deal w him. For those not strong enough NC is still the way to go
ok said i would read and not comment. but.
until i found and read this site i thought there was hope for me and my eum.
big problem, mine lives next door. been seeing him 21 months, decided on my own to call it quits, didn like the 2 days up week down roller coaster, thought it was my fault, until i decided to write it all down then i saw it. nc wont work for me
sorry i got interupted there
ok i wrote it down i saw a pattern and didn like it. i decided to end it. (the game not life) but i can not come straight out and tell him to go away, instead, i am pulling back, answering the fone when i want, never being available, (i’m a busy woman). i will discuss the weather, but he gets nothing from me but politeness from now on. he relys on me for a lot, but none of that will be available anymore, he will miss me, but he will never no what happened, or why, i will move on and by the time he gets it , it will be too late for him to draw me back in. i am strong once i see the problem i can deal with anything. i wanted answers, this site gave me those, but i will not give them too him.
last night he rang, i didn’t answer, he sent a text saying he misdialed, i didn’t respond, 20 mins l8r, he texted again asking what i was doing, i did not respond, i felt good, i felt strong but i no i will run into him, he has stuff of mine i have stuff of his, when those things are returned i will re-evaluate and move further from him. he will never no why, i do not have to explain.
its his loss not mine
brad that was a hell of an idea!!! send his name & email or phone # to a dating service. let him go get on someone else’s nerves for awhile!!! lol
my eum does that to himself that would be a reward not a punishment
@Kendra, you can maybe ‘handle’ the situation – but why? With this guy still lingering, anyone else that might be interesting will be 2nd string. If you hang around this guy, other men and women will assume that is the type of treatment you want, the type of character you demand in a date. We are known by the company we keep.
That is why it takes a life-level type choice, to change your life, to actually get away from a lifetime of serial EUMs. It ain’t fun, and it ain’t easy. And ‘handling’ it may be getting used to his tricks, or more scary, withdrawing emotionally on your part. Choose to spend your time with people worthy of respect, or you risk learning disrespectful ways (and becoming disrespectful).
Luck.
@Debs,
No Contact can be a great shield. As much as possible, you can be strictly formal, you can refuse to do anything casual with the guy, you can avoid and refuse all unnecessary contacts. You still need to be a neighbor, but not try to be a friend or a friendly neighbor.
And maybe send his name to dating services and run a (legitimate) dating ad for him in the paper. If he is distracted, you may find it easier to get through each day.
please excuse me if i sound a little harsh but who cares if he feels good, bad or indifferent about it??? the main thing is to get him out of your life and stop him from causing YOU anymore unnecessary hurt, pain, low self esteem, etc.
true but in my case he lives next door, therefore removing him from my life can cause more problems.
i need to sort myself out, he is who he is, that wont change, but i need to be able to deal with it in a manner that keeps me happy, makes me whole, makes him unimportant.
my grandfather always said patience was a virtue, i have time to watch him suffer and nobble the tosser while im at it, while thinks i still care.
he picked on the wrong woman. i will have my life back before he realises that im onto his game and that is a much sweeter revenge, and i want revenge.
he has had 21 months of my life under false pretences i want want a little something to amuse myself while i recover, play him at his own game till he sells up and moves out, he doesnt like mess or bad publicity. i will be so sweet i will make him sick. and he wont even see it coming.
i will not let him make me feel uncomfortable in my own home.
ps i am not a ravin looney. but i live here and i love this house. i’m not going to make his life difficult i’m just going to stop making it so easy for him. so convienient. i’m going to look after number one from now on
DEB…Please let me know how to do it living so close…Mine is 4 houses down and I just cring when I see his Truck..and am so dredding the day I see a car parked their all night…..It may just kill me…But I was the one that walked….tired of being around when it was convenient for him…He has been out of town for the last week and a half so that has helped but he will be back next week…I have to stay strong….give me STRENGTH!!!
lizzie i have no answers other than im better than that i deserve more so do you. i didnt no what was going on till i found this site. but i wrote it all down. reading it back hurt, it shocked me, it woke me up.
his car and van are parked right outside my door. i count to 10 before i open the door. i know its gonna hurt, but i just remember what he has done and know that he is so shallow he will do it again.
to his face i am cool and happy inside i am broken but he doesnt need to know that. that would give him power. i am removing that power. luckily i am a strong person.
think of him as shellfish or peanuts and you are highly alergic. get what ever thought in your head that will make him the one person you dont want to be around. this guy has no heart he doesnt care. you care thats what makes you better than him, but he doesnt need to know you care.
when my eum cant get a hold of me he goes through my kids or sends his friends round. i just laugh it of and take it out on the housework with some up-beat heavy music. i have only been at it a few days i’ll let you know what tricks i get up to as i go along.
get a hobby, reading, painting, anything that isn’t him.
my eum spent last night turning lights on and off trying to get my attention, this used to flatter me last night i closed the curtains, brought my pup in and tried teaching her new tricks. i new he was doing it and why but i pretended not to notice. i slept with a smile on my face last night. oh and i left the light in that room on last night, he doesnt know what time i went to bed. he doesnt need to.
ask yourself would you have done the things to him that he did to you and why not. then ask why you should be treated like that. but write then down they have more impact that way. read them when you need reassurance.
you dont need to make them worse than they were you will find they are bad enough. remember how bad he made you feel. soon you wont even like him.
oh another thing lizzie cars parked all night i have had that experience, theres nothing you can do it hurts, to him i asked did you use a condom, her i made friends with but didnt tell her about me and him. it unnerved him, its not the womans fault hes a b*****d
Debs, Wow! you are a strong and smart woman. I wish I had handled my EUM that way. I broke up with mine by telling him off and insulting him and then I told him I met someone else. I made a fool of myself. The way you are handling things is so much better.
DEB…Thanks so much for all the great advise…I had another date last night with a guy I have been seeing…But was very up front with him as to what I was going through and he has been nothing but a great friend to me..He takes me out to dinner..He makes me Laugh and last night he showed up at my door with Beautiful Flowers…and I thought WOW…This is what it is supose to be like…No Games No Drama just a great guy that wants to spend time with me…So I am going to do my best to stay Strong and not screw it up with him by letting my feeling for the EUM get in the way as you said he has no feelings or heart and so I just need to move on with a guy who can give me what I need.
THANKS AGAIN!
i fell in love, i didn’t fall, in stupid.
lizzie
dont tell your new guy what the old one did you will give him ideas, listen about his exes, donnt put their exes down, but dont talk about yours, thats for your girl friends. oh and any car parked there be glad its not you. and dont get the urge to warn his new conquests, bet no one warned you, and they will all think its jealousy even him, and the b*****d will think you care. keep your power and use it wisely. silence is the deadlest weapon of all. keep smiling even if its only a front, no one likes a sympathy shag.
susieq
never give a guy a peice of your mind. they are deaf, if they are smart enough to understand they wondnt have treated you that way in the first place, everyone deserves one chance to screw up and 24 hours to fix it, if they dont fix it immediatly then they never will. dont explain yourself they wont and if they do they are only looking you to tell them you dont mind being treated that way so they can treat you worse.
never bring old baggage into a new relationship, give everyone a fair chance, but look for the signs.
i didn’t no these guys existed, now i do, it wont stop me trying but it will make me cautious. a relationship is a two way street, and everything should be equal if its not get out, no fighting or bitching, sweet smile quick exit. when you meet the right guy there will be more ups than downs.
every guy you date should treat you the way you would like your daughter to be treated when she is old enough to date, if not hes not good enough for you move on, it only takes a few dates to see whats coming.
ps my eum has no idea who he is dealing with, i’m nice until i’m pushed the wrong way, then i am a stone, no bending. no going back,
walk away dont run you will trip.
I was curious to know in what ways do these EUM’s ” punish” their victims. I have maintained NC with the man I was sleeping with for 4 yrs for 4 wks now. it actually feels good to be away from the drama. I still have my moments but all in all it’s better this way than 4 wks ago. So again what are some of the ways these men can punish us?
ok punishments
they dont answer your calls
the withhold affection
they stand you up
they ignore you
they dont check in when they say they will
they find out what annoys you and do it to see how you will react
he ring you when you are happy without them
they make contact then just when they have you they leave again leaving you feeling weak
and so much more
Ok. So I broke down after 7 wks of NC and called his house. I know I shouldn’t have done this but I can’t undo what I did. In any event when I called he did pick up the phone and when he realized who it was told me never to call his house again. I know I really shouldn’t care about why he said what he said but is this one more way that these men keep their BS going or is he telling me that he never wants to see me ever again in life?
My girlfriend said that he will probably still try to call me in the future when things don’t go his way etc… Somehow I find that hard to believe. I kinda felt that even though he didn’t come out and say it was over and he never wanted to see me again just by him telling me to never call his house ever again to me tells me a lot. That what we did have is over and it’s time to truly move on.
debbie, Their punishments? Just look at how many ways a partner in a healthy relationship can reinforce one, can make you feel loved, cherished, and respected.
Now think of how easily that can be twisted, to be arrogant, to disparage all you are and all you have given.
Think of the non-verbal exchange where they can dismiss you as worthless, with a grimace, a lifted eyebrow, or a totally uncaring turn of the shoulder.
Think of the discourtesies that can be expressed in word and in deed. Think of the many little things they could do to be helpful or comforting, that can be turned to show they really don’t care about you, or that you aren’t good enough.
Not all abuse shows up in bruises and broken bones. Many of the worst injuries are to your spirit, your self-esteem, your emotional balance – your ability to love. The slimiest part of this kind of abuse and disrespect is that the first step to healing is to recognize that you have been injured – that you didn’t “deserve” or “earn” such treatment.
How much of an EUM’s treatment is punishment, how much is ignorance o plain uncaring? That likely varies a lot, but it doesn’t matter that much. The effect is a dysfunctional EUM injuring those around him. For an EUM’s victim’s sake, the healthiest way to approach the issue is to *assume his smart cracks and hurtful expressions are all deliberate and meant to hurt*.
@lynn, Oops!
In order to respect yourself you have to respect the people you work with and that you spend your time with. You cannot respect him and disbelieve what he says. When he says ‘don’t call’, you *have* to take those words as plainly as they are said. Anything else, and you paint a picture of a guy that lies about what he wants, plays games with manipulating people, and says hurtful things just because. In either case he is either someone you respect, and you cannot call again, or he is despicable and will hurt anyone close to him, and you can *not* call him ever in this life time.
You might keep this phrase in mind, in case he calls in a month or 10 years, “Ah! Gotta go!” Repeat as needed.
Lynn and Debbie, please take Brad’s advice and move on…
What more do you ladies need to hear?? I don’t understand you, I try, but I can’t,
what more than: don’t call my house again, leave me alone, do you need??
I thought I was crazy with my jerk, but you ladies blow my mind and I am starting to think the REAL problem is with you.
i dont want to gang up on anyone or be harsh but…..
dont call means dont call.
leave me alone means leave me alone.
theres no ulterior motive to either of those phrases. when a person gets to that point there’s no hope. please save yourselves any further heartache by refusing to look for any more possibility or belief there’s a chance to redeem these situations. if you believe in God, start going to church and pray for some positive direction in your life. luv yourself wholeheartedly and put relationships out of your mind for awhile.
unknowndiva, exactly…
I’ve been reading all these comments and it has helped me SO much! I could definitely still use some advice/tips because I’m just about to start back with the NC with my EUM. I’ve realized the pattern I have with EUM’s in the past and really tried to be different with this one. We’ve been seeing each other for over a year. 2 months in he tells me he isn’t ready to be in a relationship again (less than a year before he was in a relationship for 1 1/2 years and lived with the girl and her son from a previous relationship). I wish he had told me in the beginning because I wouldn’t have bothered with him. Before we even got together I gave him the run-around for 2 months because I was so scared of getting hurt again but he was so persistent, so sweet and so much the gentleman.
Most people date EUM’s who say nice things but don’t back it up with actions, I had the opposite. From the start he called all the time, cooked for me, even called me when he went home to visit family for a few days. For Thanksgiving he asked what I was doing and insisted that I go to his aunt/uncle’s (the family he has out here) even though he couldn’t be there because he had to work. He said he wanted to make sure I wasn’t alone (my family is far from here). For Christmas, even though I had plans to spend it with a friend’s family, he insisted that I come to his aunt/uncle’s and spend some time there too. I’ve met his aunt/uncle, brother, cousins, sister who visited from out of town, friends. Got along great with everyone. He called me on my birthday in May to see what I was doing and ended up spending the whole day with me even though I only expected to see him at my party that evening. We spent so much time together, talking by phone, email and IM despite the fact that in between he’d say he wasn’t ready for a relationship. I believed that he just needed more time but showed he cared in so many ways. Then out of nowhere in January he said we should just be friends, that we were getting too close. I cut off contact for a few weeks but left my IM open to him after that. Of course he came back talking about missing me and having feelings for me (on Valentine’s Day!!!). So eventually it was back to business as usual.
Until recently when I questioned his feelings. He now blames me for “taking his actions to mean more than they are” instead of just him not wanting a relationship. He says he has no “romantic feelings” for me. Then a couple nights later he comes over and when I ask him what he wants from me he says “everything” and kisses me. Can you blame me for being confused? Not long after he goes on a family vacation and emails me the pictures from the trip. It’s too much. It’s so confusing. But that did it for me. I knew he was a mess and I needed to move on.
It was his birthday today and he called me to say thanks for an e-card I sent him (yeah I shouldn’t have) and proceeded to tell me about his outing the night before which included male friends and some girl I’d never met. I wish he hadn’t told me. I wish I hadn’t answered the phone but I felt bad cause it was his birthday and this time last year, his 2007 bday, we were just starting out. So this day has been hard for me. He’s clearly moving on with his life. Even though neither of us has officially said we’re done it feels done to me. He doesn’t care and doesn’t act like it. I’m trying to move on but it hurts so much. Any tips on what makes NC just a little easier?
Sorry for the novel. I’ve just never dated someone who did SO much and then turned around and said it meant so little. thanks.
sydneyo,
i had a similar situation where the guy did a whole lot for me. cooking, dates out, spending lots of time together, even helping me with my bills and then….. nothing! it seems that when i realized what i started to develop feelings, he changed.
those type of men dont feel bad about leading a woman on because they believe the wining & dining makes up for the lies and the disappointment. they dont realize that it makes it that much worse. i might have actually preferred if he was an ass from the start because then i could blame myself for overlooking bad behavior. he didnt exhibit it so i had nothing to overlook.
i think the old saying “fool me once shame on you but fool me two times, shame on me” goes best with a situation of this sort because, believe me, these men never change.
i agree with the previous 2 posts.
my eum was always there for me at the start, making me feel special, until the night of my 40th birthday, then he just didn’t turn up. he made no excuses, just got on like it didn’t happen a few days later.
he new the person that organised it had changed the venue to suit him and everything, even that day he asked if he could go in the same taxi, i wouldn’t have known anything about it if my friend hadn’t have told me so that it wouldn’t have been a shock when he turned up, i spent the whole night annoyed and angry instead of enjoying the people that did turn up, i got very drunk and ended up in tears.
this weekend was hard for me. it was my first doing no contact. at one point we were three feet away from each other, and not a word was said, not even a look. thing is i am the one who decided to break contact, he didn’t know this, but because i didn’t answer his calls or texts the other night, he decided to ignore me. it was like he was huffing or something. he went out to his van and pretended to look for something, i could see him watching me in his periferal vision, but i just continued laughing and talking to my friend as if he wasn’t there. my stomach and head was in knots, but i held strong, however i spent the rest of the day frying my own head, i felt like he had takin my power.
oh something i would like an answer to?
i went to see a psychic, she did everything except name him and give me his phone number.
she told me he was my soulmate and we would be together forever.
she said we both had baggage and couldn’t move on till this was sorted.
i didn’t tell her anything, pretended not to know who she was talking about, gave nothing away.
she told me about my exe and his.
she told me things that didn’t make sense at the time but later came true.
what do you guys think im confused.
some psychics are real but hearing what they have to say can make you do things you wouldn’t have done if you hadn’t heard it (or vice versa) and you can really mess things up, if you know what i mean.
don’t go to anymore psychics and try to forget what she said.
if it is meant to be, then wait for him to actually SHOW you that he wants to be with you and dont give in until you are 2000% positive.
do not rely in this psychic’s words because you knowing the (possible) future can cause you to screw it up.
ok but i still want more views on this.
this woman was freaky she said i had to put my foot down.
my ex husband changed his car the same day i had a reading and she gave me his new reg number, she told me he was going to hurt me and i should start locking doors,
she told me things about other friends too and they came true as well.
oh and just to confirm i was right and psychics were wrong i also called a telephone psychic who also told me stuff he couldnt have known and he couldn’t see my reactions. he told me our bedrooms were joined but in separate buildings and that we shared an entrance. to put him off i told him my neighbours were female he told me i was wrong but if that was how i wanted to play it it was up to me. these guys were good.
but know what you mean, that if you think you know the furture you can make different choices causing a different outcome, i just dont know what to believe.
oh and im afraid to go back to the psychic now incase i hear things that make me do the wrong thing. maybe me walking away is what brings us together, maybe i don’t want us together. maybe together isn’t good. you can have something forever but it may not be a good thing.
i do however find it strange that every choice i have made in this life has lead me to this point.
more views on the psychic please if you dont mind
Debs, whatever the psychic says – you apply it to fit to your situation, you are brain washing yourself to have a reason to justify to yourself to hang on to him!
Don’t fool yourself.
i know that could be true, thats why i havent been to see her lately, but i still wanna know how she knows this stuff and how much credibility these people have. i actually went the first time for a laugh and over a different matter, but her insight shocked me. i dont mention him when im there like i said i make out like i dont know what she means
Dear Debs,
I know how it feels when you want to hear that everything will work out and you will get the fairytale ending that you dream of…however, I don’t want to sound harsh, but instead of a psychic, I would recommend a therapist or counselor to help you raise your self esteem and understand that you can make your own destiny by loving yourself enough, trusting yourself enough to make the choices that will make you happy.
yes the mind is certainly a tricky machine. sees things where there is nothing to be seen. you really must be careful because you could drive yourself crazy
I think we all need to really figure out what we are wanting from these dead-end relationships with EUMs. I don’t think it’s THEM we really want–I think it goes deeper than that and has a lot to do with our relationships (or lack of) with important people in our lives (like mothers and fathers). Until we really do a lot of personal work within ourselves, we are going to continue to gravitate toward people that validate our lack of self-worth.
I agree, Debs, do not spend time going to psychics and make it about HIM, go to a therapist, and make it about YOU! Take care.
ok i dont make it about him and when she did i stopped going.
i always wanted a tattoo i got one
i wanted a dog i got one
i wanted to see a fortune teller i saw one
i wanted a sports car i got one
but i just wanna no where she got this stuff when she nothing about me.
he is sitting outside now i could go and talk to him but i wont.
he might be a genuin guy or he might be an eum but he is not right for me simply because he is not there when i need him, and frankly i don’t need any guy, i like being single. the sex was good sometimes the company was good but in general he doesn’t make me happy, i have chosen not to want him.
i see him everyday, i know i can deal with him, (so long as i stay sober lol), (i’m nice to everyone when i drink) so now i only drink with people who know they have to keep us apart.
but i still wanna know where this woman gets her stuff. and how much of it is true.
ok i have been nc for 9 days now its like stopping smoking
10 words or less
does “who” count
i’m writting a book on my life more as a warning of what not to repeat rather than for public viewing
Debs, One day at a time. As long as you know the number of days, it is still one day at a time. Keep your attention on the why, and the how, remember that you made a good decision, one that will make you healthier. Connect with friends (keep descriptions of him, the relationship, or your recovery to 10 words or less), stay focused but keep busy, too. Rediscover old joys, favorite books, favorite movies, favorite parks and outings. Talk to knowledgeable people – a pastor, a friend or three.
If you delve into favorite foods, remember to make 1/3 the recipe – don’t you *dare* plan on leftovers – or enough for *ahem* someone else’s portion.
Stay active, walking is good – keep a straw hat handy for the sunshine, use skin block as needed, focus on safe and healthy living. Maybe tidy up a bit.
Maybe promise yourself a treat every time you think of him – by scrubbing the toilet bowl,
One day at a time. You are attempting to intervene in addictive behavior. Retirees go through this after a life of going to work every day, smokers, etc.
Blessed be!
Debs,
“does ‘”who”‘ count”? If you have to ask, you already know the answer! My thought was to prevent investing more energy in anchors to the past, while keeping friends apprised of how you are doing. Leave lots of room in your conversation and your thoughts and time with friends for other topics. Don’t lose time that could be spent rediscovering past joys, reestablishing social contacts, or rebuilding an interest in friend’s affairs. And don’t chance soiling a friendship with emotional overload on full-cycle repeat. You don’t want to gossip about yourself or about him, no matter how heavy the thought weighs on your mind.
You are free, now, of that part of your life and ties to that guy. Celebrate the freedom!
Luck!
what i meant was when his name is mentioned i just say who and change the subject.
if i talk about him i wanna talk to him so i dont talk about him
the things i have wrote down are useful when i think about him i read them and they remind me he is a pig
it keeps me on track
tonight will be hard i no he will make contact so i have a friend coming round she knows that i am avoiding him and she will keep me on track
that’s a great idea deb to have a good friend who will keep you on track. most “friends” that i know will say “well she’s an adult, she should take care of herself” nevermind the times I’ve taken care of them.
good luck & God bless!!!
ok went out the night ,eum tried to avoid me but i beat him to it so he tried to get my attention, but to no avail and all his friends were half way up my ass, he left early and texted me to ask me to look after his friend, i said didn’t bring him not looking after him, he wasnt pleased. he texted me when i got ome askin me not to sing lol
game set and match
27 text messages and three phone calls from him on saturday 3 today but im not bitting. he keeps asking me to do stuff for him. but apparently i am very busy. this is what he does.
HEY ALL…I failed and made a fool of myself but at least I exposed him for what he is once and for all…So long story short my EUM has been playing me for nearly a year now…and I kept going back because he truly acted like he cared…Shame on Me…He lives 4 houses away and is always on the go…the one thing that always bothered me was several nights his truck was not home all night..he always said he went to a buddy’s and just crashed their…cuz he was bored..and as foolish as I am I beleived him…Well, last week when I refused to have contact with him he decided to show me by bringing a woman home….But I found out this was not just any woman..this was a woman he had been having a relationship with for almost a year but he never brought her to his home…Well I saw the strange car in the drive so YES….made a run down to his house…knocked and banged at the door..no one came…layed on the doorbell and he finally comes down and says what the problem…At this point I had no idea that this woman had been involved with him for as long as had….I said hey so you F*******g tonight !!! Also said numerous thing which the woman overheard which totally let her know that he had been with me all along….So now we are both DONE…..and he sits home ALL ALONE!!!!! I know its Ugly on my part because I seemed so Desparate but I will somehow get through this…..He is so bad that he actually was sleeping with both of us within hours of each other….in the past…I simply want to Throw Up!!!! He makes me Sick!!!
Thanks for letting me VENT!!!
Hello all.
First of all, I definitely agree with Brad about RESPECT. If the person cannot respect you, they cannot truly love you. It is hard when we get a broken heart over someone that we love who does not love us back, and try as we might, the emotionally unavailable person is incapable of giving love. As Dr. Phil would say, the only thing worse than being in a bad relationship for a year is being in a bad relationship for a year and one day. Why? Because we are wasting valuable time that we could put toward something better or someone better. I was hurt twice by a woman who I have been friends with for over 10 years. She didn’t return calls, emails, etc., and then came back months later on my “long lost friend” (her words), and for a long time, I kept my distance from her untl this last Christmas, when she wrote and wanted me to call her and after we reconnected for a little while, she would often share that she was “busy” and when I wanted to talk about my thoughts and feelings regarding our communication, she didn’t have time and claimed that she was very busy. And because I’ve been open to meeting new friends, etc., I’ve made some new and female friends with better potential. And God must have a great sense of humor because these two of these new friends that I’ve met work for the same major hospital as my “long lost friend” and these two new friends made the first move toward me. All of the ones who have shared are so right about ACTIONS SPEAKING LOUDER THAN WORDS. I have to admit that I do have a hard time with the no contact rule so say a prayer for me if you would. I was crushed over my “long lost friend” because I fell in love with her a long time ago, but she has not even been a faithful friend so I’d rather face this heartbreak than a greater heartbreak later. Oh yeah, she is a single mom and I recently found out that her son’s father is not her ex-husband. And this is a bad dynamic that existed in her family — her father had multiple marriages and multiple affairs. Major red flags.
There is a great book by BRYN C. COLLINS, EMOTIONAL UNAVAILABILITY: RECOGNIZING IT, UNDERSTANDING IT, AND AVOIDING ITS TRAP. I highly recommend the book. The author talks about at least 10 different types of emotionally unavailable people, and gives a short little checklist for each type which helps to make it easier to identify the type of emotionally unavailable person that you are dealing with. This book has helped me alot so far.
LIVING WELL IS THE BEST REVENGE — BECAUSE IT ISN’T REVENGE. We all deserve someone who will love us for who we are. Rejection hurts like hell, but with an EU person, it is a blessing in disguise. Rejection is God’s protection because we are being saved from future hurt and future lost time. The point is that while the rejection from an EU person (in whatever form the rejection takes) shows more about the EU person’s character, than our own character. In other words, the EU is not a good fit for us, because we deserve someone a hell of a lot better.
Best regards,
David
oh lizzie lizzie lizzie did she dump him there and then in front of you.
mine arrived back last night with his new girl friend, i politely said hi to her and walked on.
david believe it or not i didnt think guys fell for this stuff, but seems im wrong, do you cope differently.
of course they do….they turn into EUM’s
NO DEB…Not in front of me but needless to say I found out it is over on her end too….Its also amazing that his truck has been home every night since all of this went down last week…and see him pearing down the way like I would even give him a second look..MISS ME BITCH…THAT IS MY MOTTO !!!
Hi Deb:
In terms of your inquiry regarding how do I cope, it has been very difficult at times but I have found that the support of family and friends to have helped me tremendously. There is a great book by DR. HENRY CLOUD, CHANGES THAT HEAL, that has given me some profound insights into myself, and one of the things that has helped is realizing that PEOPLE REMAIN STUCK BECAUSE WE WANT THE OTHER PERSON TO CHANGE. We can only control ourselves, and we can’t make someone love us no matter how hard we try. With an emotionally unavailable person, and there are about 10 different types according to the COLLIN’S book (which I referenced in my earlier post), the emotionally unavailable person does not love themself and so they cannot truly love another person. We all deserve someone who loves us for us, and when we recognize that the other person is emotionally unavailable, and while the rejection hurts like hell, it is actually a blessing in disguise. Ask yourself — would you want to be in a relationship with an illusion — someone who doesn’t truly love you — or do you want to be in a real relationship with someone who truly loves you? The answer for me was quite simple — I want somene and I deserve someone who truly loves me for me, and I don’t want to play second fiddle or be the yo-yo or even the consolation prize. A relationship needs to be a two way street and not one sided. The rejection hurts alot and at times is seemingly overwhelming, and with the help of friends and some family members, I am getting through this. Probably one of the best pieces of advice is from DR. HENRY CLOUD’S book and that is that we need to build a very good support system first and to maintain and nuture our friendships and family relationships, so that we can have people to turn to help us and guide us and to simply spend time with. As we build more healthy friendships and family relatonships, we will then be able to pick better romantic relationships because we will more easily recognize the red flags and we will have the support system in place where we can then more easily leave a bad relationship. I’ve become more active in church and have participated in a men’s group and a single’s group, and have spent more time with friends and developing new friendships. In this way, I am being active and living life and developing better relationships, and am more fulfilled and I am seeing the relationship with an emotionally unavailable person to be unfulfilling and hollow. And in reality, the emotionally unavailable person is HOLLOW — they don’t have love inside of themselves (they are acting out of hurt) and thus cannot truly love others. And while it may seem evil, mean, or malicious on the part of the emotionally unavailable person, for the most part, they are simply acting out of hurt and are so lonely themselves and out of touch with themselves that they can’t see past their own self-focus to respect another, much less love another. It really is a sad situation for them, but as the COLLIN’s book points out ..WE DIDN’T BREAK THEM, WE DON’T HAVE TO FIX THEM.
Best regards and God bless,
David
Hello again Deb:
I also wanted to add that I do pray alot to God and let God know what I’m thinking and feeling. I have found alot of comfort in prayer and reading the bible, and am hoping and keeping the faith that there is a better day tomorrow and someone better in the future. I have become more pro-active in developing friendships and to keep persevering. At the present moment, I have not been able to maintain the NO CONTACT rule — but I have kept the contact very limited for now. I had told my friend Lisa that I would always be her friend, and I do intend to live up to my promise, and am thus remaining open to her, but I am doing so with much clearer eyes. My friends do often point out that recurring contact may only hurt me more, and that may very well be true, but as I am getting busier with other people, I am finding that my focus on Lisa is fading and that is a good thing.
Best regards,
David
hi David
no contact for me doesnt work because its against my personalitly and means i’m changing to suit someone else.
not only that but my eum uses that to get to me were as if im polite and then say have to go busy today, he cant argue with that, don’t know if your aware of it but mine lives next door, and we have been friends for nearly 3.5 years and in a (i’m going to use the word relationship for 21 months). (to me interaction with another person is a relationship good or bad).
i’m even going to say at the beginging i was in fact an eup myself and the casualness of it all suited me for so many reasons. then as i healed he didn’t. he continued with what we had while i wanted more.
people have asked me what i want from my relationship with him and in truth i don’t really know. sometimes i feel i want him properly and other times the meer mention of it sends me running.
i love being with him and he is fun. i can basically have that if i don’t mind the mind games. thing is when i look at us and see how alike we are it makes me feel incomplete. i dont want to be him. but i don’t know if i could give someone my complete attention.
i confess to be irrational sometimes and so spontaneous it scares me. i like the idea of having someone but not being owned or trapped. but then i am also selfish because i want it on my terms, which is what he does, and i know he hates it when i am elsewhere and i get a thrill out knowing it makes him jealous. sometimes i think we deserve each other. but then i realise i am capable of more. thats the only difference between us he is incapable of fifdelility. i have been faithful to him even though i haven’t had to be, but that was a choice i made.
sometimes i wonder what it would be like if we got together properly, and then i realise i don’t really want that either.
he and i will continue to play of one another but now its different i’m not falling for his games because i know what he is, and what he is is what i feel for, if he changed i wouldn’t like him.
i have other aspects of my life that need my attention and hes a handy fill in when i’m bored or lonely.
big insight eh!
Debs,
It sounds like .. Your neighbor is on a perpetual date. He is dating for social recreation, some disconnected intimate moments. You were perpetual dating when you started with him. And you have seen some glimpses of a richer family life with richer, deeper, meaningful bonds.
But you aren’t ready to give up the false glamor, the brief moments of fun, and the immediate (if brief) rewards of casual contact. You are still dating ‘for the fun of it’.
You still see the comfort and security of a mate as scary with it’s lack of excitement, you see the distance between where you are and what might be as an empty, horrendous void, empty of anything recognizable. You kind of anticipate what awaits, you can tell it is more fulfilling. But you are still clinging to your dating life rather than accept the changes that would let you view life from a happier perspective. You don’t want to give up the neighbor, just in case he brings you closer to happiness than you would be able to achieve on your own.
You don’t believe that having a dater in your life is preventing you from getting ready for a long-term relationship or life-mating, or that hanging with the neighbor prevents ‘good’ family-type men of good character from thinking you might be interested – they won’t ‘see’ you as a possible mate when you keep dating as a lifestyle choice.
The process of getting from here to there is change. Change is measured in pain. Change can be considered a ‘little death’, a clearing away of the old life to make way for a new life (hint: In that order!).
I don’t look at the No Contact Rule as changing to suit him – I think of it as building a barrier, protecting yourself from a known (emotional) predator.
Luck!
one thing i will give him he has been honest from the start. i on the other hand have not, and i dont mean towards him i mean towards me. i don’t know what i want. i like the idea of a relationship but to me it needs an on off switch. i like being single but i like company that i am at ease with.
i do remember telling him one night that i was just filling in time till my divorce came through.
he just sent his mum round to see me for something lol
Hi Debs:
From what you have said recently, it appears that you are emotionally unavailable yourself and therefore you keep attracting an emotionally unavailable male. Brad’s explanation is very good and very insightful — you are in this perpetual dating mode with this guy, and until your own mindset changes, you will probably stayed locked in this cycle with this guy. We can only change ourselves, not anyone else. And when we become healthier ourselves, we will attract healthier individuals from an emotional standpoint. It’s the law of attraction — like attracts like.
Unknown Diva may have had a point earlier that those whose heart is broken by an emotionallly unavailable person may become emotionally unavailable themselves.
Best regards,
David
Hi again Debs:
When you said that he was a handy fill-in when you were bored or lonely, that is how my emotionally unavailable friend Lisa treated me, and it doesn’t feel good at all. It doesn’t make you a bad person. It simply shows that you are still acting out of your hurts and fears — instead of your hopes –and that until you get a better support system and realize that you deserve so much better out of a relationship, you will get what you tolerate. It is a simple as one reaping what one sows. Once we change our mindset, and then our own actions, the results will flow differently. In other words while you do recognize certain truths about your relationship with this guy, your mindset is still basically the same and so are your actions, and so you stayed locked in basically the same mode with this guy.
Best regards,
David
David
i agree with everything you have said thats why i am not dating anyone else i don’t think it would be fair, and as this guy is a player himself i couldn’t see the harm if we were both on the same page.as i said our deal is honest except just sometimes i want more, but then just as quickly i think i don’t
to the outside world and all who know us people think we are so alike we could be twins, we have the same humour and personality, the same way of going, and we both drift, we both have a large circle of aquaintances, and can usually be found at the same partys and pubs, we always end up walking home together even if were not together and not getting together, we keep each other company.
the sexual chemistry between us is intense so we are bound to end up together on occasions, i just dont want to do that anymore, because i feel it is unhealthy.
we will never fix ourseleves if we always have each other to fall back on, and i think things are silghtly uneven sometimes and that makes me mad, but if things were even, we could end up in a proper relationship and now is not the time for that. i’m not in that place yet and niether is he. i don’t know if we will ever be.
i dont want to loose him as a friend and he has said he feels the same about me, but so long as he is in the picture i can not move on, but like i said i am not ready to yet and he is comforting, but he can be hurtful as well and so can i. we bounce of each other.
but he doesn’t seem to have a concience about what he is doing i do and thats what makes us different, i know i will change and grow but the question is will he?
SUPPORT NEEDED……………..I am a mess…I found out last week…that my EUM has also had another girlfiend for quite some time that is why he was never available….I even wrote this girl a note and told her what he is all about and what she has to look forward too….and she chose to stay with him….and he is with her…I continue to look in the mirror and say what the Hell is wrong with me…Why do I continue to beat myself up over this…..He was sleeping with both of us at the same time so how can he say that he cares about this girl!!! Do you think once the newness wares off do you think he will do the same thing to her…the ignoring of the phone calls…the disappearing act when she gets to close?????????…..I just keep asking myself what did I do wrong and it is making me crazy
Hi Debs and Lizzie:
I really feel for both of you. Debs, the good thing is that appear to be working through the issues, and right now, the relationship with your EM — friends with benefits — is working for you in some way, that is why you are not leaving it. I can understand — I don’t know if I can ever say goodby to my EM friend Lisa because back in 2001, after she did help with finding new doctors, when I had subsequent episodes of asthma and related lung problems, etc., she was the one I wanted to see the most before I thought that I would die. So the hooks are in me as well. Once you get yourself healthier, you will then be able to find some distance, and that includes not only staying busy, but nurturing other relationships with family and friends, and making time to nurture new friendships and new romantic relationships. We often stay because we are in a comfort zone, and in one sense, may be emotionally unavailable ourselves.
Lizzie, the one thing that you may need to work on (and I’m giving this same advice to myself) is to develop more RESPECT for yourself and not let yourself down. By respecting yourself, others will either respect you or if they don’t, they will move on. Quite frankly, and it appears that you are probably a very giving person, you probably did not do anything wrong — they do it because it is in their character, not yours. Quite frankly, it is in their character. I almost think that the EU persons keep returning like a bad penny.
By the way, my EM friend Lisa contacted me today by e-mail, and I wrote her back, and it looks like the whole yo-yo thing is starting again. I really have to think things over before I talk with her because my emotions are up and down. And Debs, I think that is probably why your relationship feels so intense — probably due in large part to the roller coaster effect — the ups and downs — the contact, the no contact, it builds up the anticipation and hence the excitement. It is explained by DR. HENRY CLOUD that when we feel bad, it is LONGING, and NOT true love. TRUE LOVE SATISFIES; LONGING DOES NOT. And in the book of Proverbs in the bible, it is written that- “hope deferred makes the heart sick.” That is so true.
Best regards and God bless,
David
Hi Debs:
In regard to yuor question about whether your EU guy will change, absent an extraordinary superceding event, the best predictor of future behavior is the past. People can change, but we can’t change others. Only others can change and that is with the help of God. And in regard to him not having a conscience, he is probably so self-absorbed that it just doesn’t register with him. This is just a guess, but he was probably so hurt growing up and/or in past relationships, that he appears distant and will not let anyone get too close for fear of rejection, etc. And this “arms distance” dance is no fun and not truly fulfilling, and when you, like myself, want something better, and become emotionally available ourselves, we will move on.
Best regards,
David
Lizzie – please, relax, and keep your eye on the ball.
1) You dropped him. He is in the past. What he does, with whom, or even what he did back then no longer matters.
2) There is a notion out there, of warning people around predators like your EUM. That is a tough one – because a ‘warning’ is nothing more than gossip. Gossip hurts the gossiper as well as those being gossiped about. If she is taking up with the guy, then she hasn’t learned to defend against his brand of predator – and she will not ‘hear’ what you have to say, especially not about him. Denial (‘The Nile river) – its not just a river in Egypt. She isn’t ready to hear what is going on around her, yet.
3) You chose to go with the guy. Understanding why you chose to go with him, why you stayed as long as you did – that gives you plenty of stuff to work on. This isn’t a soap opera to follow spinoff stories and worry over how someone proved to be antisocial and disrespectful behaves. He isn’t your problem, you don’t have responsibility to train him or to correct his improper behavior. His behavior is out of your hands. You don’t even have a responsibility to protect the people around him – that would be called defamation of character, stalking, and there are probably other laws against interfering further in his life.
4) Your interest, and concern about him and her and etc. ties you to him and her, binds you to the past, and is the reason the separation process, the breaking free, takes so long and hurts so much. You can recognize when your thoughts are straying to him, and catch yourself and think of other things. The less you dwell on thoughts of him, the quicker your interest will shift to other things, things you need to enjoy and accomplish to move back to your own life and your own future.
Question – how long since you bought yourself a spray of flowers, just to brighten up the breakfast table? How about treating yourself to a massage? Or a walk in a local park at a cozy, thoughtful, meandering pace, not for exercise? What about a good long hot bath with Epsom Salts or bath salts that include Epsom Salts for relaxing? A relaxing herbal tea or decaff green tea with honey?
Have you been practicing thinking of you, your thoughts, and your plans for 15 minutes by the clock, with no distractions or stray thoughts?
I don’t mention this frivolous and pampering, self-indulgent notions will-he, nil-he. You need to be kind you yourself, rediscover your inner capacity to enjoy life, and deliberately choose to do a few things for yourself that includes only you.
Take care.
Hi Brad:
I just wanted to write to let you know that I really value and appreciate your input and insights regarding EU persons. I have learned alot from reading your points and have found your tips and advice to be very helpful. The point that you make that the other person is not our problem is absolutely right on the mark. One of the major points in the BRYN COLLINS book, EMOTIONAL UNAVAILABILITY, is that WE DIDN’T BREAK THE PERSON, WE DON’T HAVE TO FIX THEM. Thank you.
Best regards and God bless,
David
i have met a nice guy i like him but i dont want to hurt him
my divorce starts in 6 weeks then i will be free to move on dare i ask him to wait or just use the time to get to know him first no strings
Thank You Brad…..Yes, I am struggling and it hurts like Hell….I just keep thinking what did or did I not do…..He did tell me in the past that he has WALLS….and everytime he got close he put his walls up for fear of getting hurt so my question would be why is he letting his walls down for another girl…or it may be that it is just new and as soon as she gets attached he will run from her as well…I am just in so much pain right now that I am sick……….I so want to feel better…but it is so hard….I have gutys beating down my door to take me out I just cannot seem to let go….What the Hell is wrong with me???
Lizzie,
The problem with guys beating down your door – and you don’t understand why, you don’t really feel up to going out at all, and you don’t want to offend any of them in case he might be Mr. Right. Or I am just guessing blind.
What is ‘wrong’ isn’t really wrong, just angst and confusion, probably. If you are attracting guys, it is because you are doing things to attract guys. First, where do you hang out – if you go places guys go expecting to pick up chicks, then that is part of the problem. You have good experience with the kind of guys playing that kind of angle, and you don’t need any of them. So start identifying places to avoid.
Next is perfume, and clothes. What many women call ‘pretty’ today really means provocative, revealing. In The Olden Days (like, Doris Day movies era) ‘feminine’ meant something like a calico or rose print flannel night gown, at least ankle length. Something your grandmother’s mother would have expected her to wear. For scent? Get some Johnson’s cornstarch baby powder. Use it after your shower. No hair spray, use a simple low-maintenance hair approach – you aren’t duding up for a wedding night nor a night on the town, so don’t look the part. Use the baby powder, and that is the only scented product you use.
Actually, this is good practice. A guy you get wearing baby powder will likely know what to do with a baby. Having help changing diapers, if it ever gets that far, is priceless.
Tone down makeup. Think bare minimum, as in ‘just got out of the sauna and shower’ minimum, on your way to an all-ladies Aerobics class. At the senior center. You aren’t going to catch a good man’s eye looking fashionable. A good guy probably wants a woman that *isn’t* always dressed to attract (sexual) attention. They guys that want trophy wives and bragging rights are *not* thinking of your future. Beyond the time it takes to get you into bed again.
It sounds like you are trying to keep your life going amidst all this turmoil. Figure work is important, skip anything that interferes with work. Eatting and sleeping routines are critical to stay healthy. Skip anything else that interferes with eating and sleeping. You need contact with others. Plan some time window shopping, and watch people at the mall or stores, be sure to buy the food you need, and a spray of flowers for the breakfast table.
At work or shopping or elsewhere, do *not* smile at any guy that isn’t family. Serious. A smile is an invitation to conversation, to get acquainted, to maybe hook up. Right now you aren’t ready to be a good neighbor, a pleasant companion. You aren’t that sure of yourself, your doubts and confusion are still in your way. In the future, when you can handle greeting a stranger, conduct a polite, reserved exchange and proceed on your way, the non-smiling thing won’t be so important. Later still, you will want to be able to smile, laugh, be serious to express your inner emotional state. This will be critical in communicating with a mate or family or friends. But right now you need some space, and for that you need to look like you don’t have time for casual conversation, like you are busy or concerned, and focused on business matters. Practice these expressions in the mirror!
Be very careful with lighting at home. You want curtains to maintain your privacy, but you don’t want to block the sunlight. Keeping rooms dark may indicate depression, or aggravate depression – but the two tend to go together. You want to spend a bit of time outside each day anyway, to see normal, healthy people, children, and how they live their lives.
Make friends with women you have never been to a bar with. When you go to a bar (consider the type of guys you encounter in bars!), don’t talk to anyone there that you don’t arrive with.
If your dress and manner aren’t provocative, then there is another reason guys might be flocking around – you look wounded. A fixer-upper. A poor waif that will be so grateful for any attention, the guy can get all the easy sex he wants. In which case, avoid wherever you are encountering these predators. Make sure your clothes are clean and cared for, and business-casual at least. Always.
Anyone with as much torment as you are facing needs the healing of human touch. A parent, a sister – a pastor (that keeps his hands to himself, please, you have enough confusion). Some comfort foods are pretty universal – herbal teas instead of carbonated beverages, or even warm water. Caffeine raises intensity levels, which you don’t appear to need right now, then impose an energy crash later in the day. It can take a week or more to complete withdrawals from caffeine, but it may be worth a try right now. Smoking is like bars – it attracts a certain type of guy, some guys smoke because they get to take breaks with women – and often ‘get lucky’. Beware the cigarette break romeos.
In part what I suggest is that I think fashion and TV promote an artificial reliance on sex to define people, because it sells soap and other products, regardless of how damaging it is to people. If you doubt me, look at how tobacco companies still sell tobacco – often still targeted to young people. The other part is that there are lots of things that you can do for yourself, that it is a simple matter, really, to take control of your own life.
Choose to heal, now, and dress down to create a safe, self-centered island. Later you can choose how you want to go on. (Keep in mind, what you were doing didn’t lead you to a happy ending.)
@Debs – Divorce is a legal change. You can’t change your soon-to-be-ex-husband, and you cannot know, now, how you will change, or what will be important to you then.
Whether or not there is ever another nice guy, you really should beg off with this one. Tell him, sorry, his offer of a date is tempting, but you are married and won’t be ready to date until you are past what you are going through now. Don’t string him along, don’t try to keep him available, don’t make any promises about the future – which you may not be able to keep. If, in a year or so, you encounter the guy and are still curious, then ask him out.
You have lived as a wife, as part of a family, with a mate in your life. Now you need to learn who you are, after the marriage and divorce. You need to know who you are, and what you need in a mate, so you can pick a better man than this one. The odds are that this guy will turn out to be wrong for you, or even similar to your father and to the almost-ex. With all the turmoil, the chances are that you pick this new guy for surface reasons, for reasons that are fleeting and exist only for the current moment in your life. Wait, clean out the baggage, before you think about finding a new mate. And, please don’t look for a new guy in the same (type of) place you found the one you are dumping now.
Luck!
my ex husband and i have been apart 2 years. i don’t want to change him, i want him to just go away.
i met the new one through friends, we just chat. he has known me all my life. he is going away for a while i told him about my impending divorce and said i just wanted to chill for a while. i like him as a person but i know he wants more. when i said i would let him know when i was sorted he agreed but said he suspects when im ready it wont be for him.
once my divorce is final i wont need my eum not that i ever did, funny i dont even miss him at the minute anyway. i think our last encounter was the final straw.
i havent dated because i was waiting for the divorce and have been looking forward to my freedom but i want to use that time for me, i have really got to know and like myself, i don’t have time for wasters anymore.
even if we dont get together my new friend and i get on well and will continue to be friends.
i’m growing in a good way
lizzie
sorry to be hard babes but you need to get this guy out of your head and life, eums always have more than one person at a time, i should know i dabbled for a while.
he is bad news and he is probably giving you all the same line. cut him out like cancer. as for the girls he plays with they are not your problem and neither are you theirs. they have a list in their head of who they call and you never want to see that list. they are bored and empty. walk away while you can and you can, you just have to believe in yourself.
eums chase rainbows but they don’t know what to do with them when they find them, and they are incapable of learning. don’t replace him with another guy either, move on because you are ready not because you are lonely.
brad
my eum hit on me when i was dirty and covered in mud and sweat, but he had seen me everyday for a year and a half, i think he saw himself in me, and at the time i think he was right. but like i said i have grown.
Brad,
Im still around….just to let you know EUM came sniffing around last nite..2 phone calls around 3:30am..is he for real??????? No i didnt answer and had no desire to answer….thx for ur advice..
ok you guys heres a new one for you.
had a few drinks with a friend on friday night, decided to have a long lie in on saturday, (3.00pm to be exact) felt someone sitting on the bottom of my bed, woke up to find my eum sitting there looking at me, you could have knocked me down with a feather. he asked when i was getting up, said i wasn’t, he said he would just sit there till i did, so i got up. he asked me to drive him somewhere, i said i was going nowhere till i was washed and dressed, he sat a while not much chat outta me though, he went away for 10 mins then come back, still not much chat outta me, (cept me and a friend texting) so he leaves.
later that evening i was having drinks with friends and he rings and askes me to keep the noise down. i turn down the music and party on. poor guy think he feels a little rejected.
Debs, this is getting spooky. Seriously, stalking type spooky. A neighbor doesn’t enter your house uninvited – that is trespassing, and criminal. Make sure you clearly inform him he is not welcome in your house, except with specific invitation, each time. If he repeats this unauthorized entry, I highly recommend getting an attorney or the police involved. Criminal behavior just gets worse unless you confront it. This isn’t cute, nor curious – just scary.
I would have thought your response on waking to find him on your bed to be anger – “Get out! What are you thinking!” are phrases that seem appropriate. You have to react appropriately to this kind of blatant intrusion. There should be no conversation, whatever he wants is not important, next to his invading your home and your bedroom.
my kids let him in.
it didn’t bother me. what would have bothered me would have been if i had have been glad to see him and i didn’t care either way.
so in a way im glad i can finally move forward and now he knows it too.
we have always ran in and out of each others houses, i just dont swoon anymore when i see him.
i went out for a date with my new guy, but we are takin it slow i like him and dont want to be his eup. he is too nice.
SITTING BACK…WATCHING THE TRAIN WRECK!!!
Yes so my ex EUM had been seeing someone else for quite some time…and just because I finally said I am Done..he has decided to just about move her in…she is at his house nearly 24/7 and if I know him as I do…He will soon freak out…he is only doing this to get back at me..Funny…she found out about me and is still their..I am sure he lied his way out of it…She should really wonder jee why has he never invited me over before now…??? because I live 4 houses down..so he never wanted me to see the car in the Drive…I am laughing because she is draining his bank account as well…A mutual friend told me he had to borrow money last week jut to take her out…He has wined and dinned her well…Now its reality time…so am just sitting back watching the train wreck…as I have moved on with an EMOTIONALY AVAILABLE MAN…WOW….What a Difference…!!!
I just want to sit back and see her see him for his True Colors and she will soon be gone as well…and their he will sit ALL ALONE….Everything has an Experation Date and when this Expires it will be my Ultimate Closure on this past year of Hell!
Lizzie, you are fooling yourself, he is NOT doing this to get back at you, he is doing this because this is what HE wants to do, it has never been about you.
Tell me, why it is so important to you that she will see his true colors? You know his true colors, is that not good enough?
Why can’t you see this to be over and move on with your life rather than waiting for the train wreck. I believe that you are waiting on this train wreck so that you can pursue him again.
Not wanting to make you mad, just my opinion. Let it go…
I have let it go…or I would not have moved on with someone else…I just want to see him get everything he deserves!!!
Lizzie, What if ..
the attention and thought you gave about the ex’s affairs showed a deep emotional tie to the past, that indicates remaining uncertainties and bonds?
What if you were hoping to see his hurt, as if you had vicariously punished him? Knowing that he didn’t hear or learn in his time with you, so he is unlikely to learn from being ‘punished’?
What if you see his ‘comeuppence’ as proof you were right -an implied apology for what you went through because of him?
What if you still want his permission to leave him, and expect his failure with the next girl to be that permission?
What if a friendly-minded acquaintance was concerned that your continued interest in who visits the ex, really means that you are involved not in his love-life but still tied to him? And that you would be distracted from either picking a next guy because he was a good mate-prospect (and not just available and looking familiar — similar issues as the ex had) or that you would be ready to pay attention to your needs, as well as his needs and interests?
How would one express their concern?
Oh Lizzie you have much more hurt feeling and anger to deal with…dating someone else is physically moving on, but emotionally you have not. If you are wishing him bad luck and can stomach watching a train wreck of someone else’s relationship you still have some work to do. The true healing happens when you just don’t care anymore about him or who is with and the status of their relationship. It’s not your fault he couldn’t value what I had to offer and his two-timing does not mean you are lacking something…he is. Congratulations on finding an available man, but your interest in you ex and his girlfriend will ruin it if you keep this up, because your new man will look at this and cock his head in dismay and concern. Frankly, who could blame him? You are with new guy now, your mind should be filled with lovely thoughts of him and hope, not hateful scenarios for your ex to go through. Anger creates vulnerability, it makes a person an easy target for an ex EUM who wants to use you as a pawn in his new relationship drama, so beware!
It’s not up to your new man to quiet those bad voices and heal those bad feelings. You have to face that self doubt and rejection head on and tell yourself those feelings have no basis and you are worthy over and over until you believe it. Once you do, those feelings that fuel your anger and vengeful feelings will start to dissipate. Then you are free to care for your new man the way you are supposed to. How can you really focus on your new guy with all the ex stuff in the way? Take some time to get past this anger which will ultimately become dispair and heal yourself. Sometimes counseling does help, it helped me on some dark days. Good luck to you.
lizzie
your not over him till you fail to notice he is in the same room so to speak.
dont wish him ill or her. if your still thinking of him he is still part of your life. and thats not fair on your new bloke.
so what if he screws up, thats not your buisness. and if it goes wrong dont be there to pick up the pieces or it will all start again.
maybe your not ready to date yet, you cant give 2 guys your attention.
eums flaunt new lovers to see your reaction , yes, but its not about you or the girl its him being a stupid arrogant (i cant find a non swear word to finish this sentence,but you know what i mean)
my eum has a girl at the minute and she is costing him a fortune but shes not putting out so he sees it as a challenge i know he will bore soon, but i wont be there, he is an adult his choices are his own, as are mine, as are yours. make the right choice and you know what that is even though you dont want to believe it.
good luck
ps
i dont have an eum anymore
i took my chips cashed in and left the table
BRAD..KAT..DEBS…Thank you for all of our advise in my matter..I have read your post over and over again..I am sure with time and a good Therapist I will get through this. Thanks so Much
i know i said i didn’t have an eum anymore, but he is still playing games he has seen my new fella and is beside himself he doesnt know how to react.
he keeps leaving things at my house for me and texting me, i am replying politely, which seems to be confusing him. worse still i am being nice, meaning he has to be nice back but i can see he is in a fluster.
my new guy is lovely and treats me like a princess and no i didnt fall in to the trap of telling him about my eum although he does no him.
i feel strong and in control.
lizzie
how are you getting on babes
Hey Debs.
I guess I am doing OK…Have my good days and Bad…I know I never want to have contact with him again as he has done so much Damage….However I keep asking myself what does this new girl have that I do not…or is he simply courting her and will in turn do the same thing to her…I have seen her…she is at least 30 pounds heavier than me and a very plain jane…he used to tell me I have a Big Ass….I am 5’8″ 140 pounds…I work out 5 times a week to keep my body in top shape and he cheats on me with this plain jane I simply do not get it…But I am in the process of rebuilding my self esteam by loosing even more weight not that I really need to but it really makes me feel better about myself..
I am going to see my doctor on Wednesday and hopefully get a referal so I can talk with someone to get me out of this Deep Depression…I am doing everything to stay busy however I constantly think about everything that went down…
Thanks for asking Debs…Hope all is well with you and CONGRATS on feeling Strong and in Control…I hope to get their soon…but for right now its getting by day by day.
she doesnt have anything other than low self esteem. believe me he wont treat her well either. men like him dont go for looks they go for vulnerability, someone they can manipulate.
woman who like themselves wont fall for his games.
you were flattered by him, but then he stopped flattering and started manipulating but you didnt notice the transition untill it was too late, unfortunately its hard to break bad habbits, its like smoking, you always think you can stop till you try.
dont take the blame for anything he did, he does the same thing to every woman he meets and if they fall for it he strings them along for as long as possible.
dont loose weight for him do it for you but only if you are actually over weight. good luck lizzie keep in touch i will keep checking in to give you support if i can help
be strong
Hi all
Trying my best to relinquish my position as Yo-Yo Girl by cutting the strings. This post is so true. They don’t want you but are reluctant to let you go so that you can move on with your life and find someone who cares about you.
I thought that I could end it with Mr. EUM and still ocassionally chat/text/email him. I thought that as long as I wasn’t having sex with him I was safe and that I could handle it.
WRONG
I had this false hope that “this time would be better” and “we were meant to be” blah blah. His actions (or lack of) have make it clear that he doesn’t value me or place as much importance on the relationship as I do. To start healing I’ve have to cut ALL contact with him. So far so good. Wish me luck.
cynnie
good luck its hard but you will get there if you stand firm and we’re here if you need us
good luck
i cannot believe i dare to give advice.
i just jumped from one eum to another without even tripping. two weeks of nothing except me being a fool.
oh i met a nice guy two weeks later he stands me up on my birthday no less. i need beheaded
Good luck Cynnie No contact is the only way to go and the only way you can come out a winner in this situation. – stay strong!
Debs, You aren’t the first. I thought I would have better judgement after ending it with an EU and thinking I knew all the signs of an EU and what to avoid, but I was wrong. The next one looked different and acted different, but turned out to be the same horse different color and it freaked me out that it happened again. I took a break from dating to find out what it is about me that attracts and is attracted to these guys. I cannot go through it again. Sorry about your birthday that sucks but take comfort in the fact you found out only two weeks into it what his true colors were under the nice guy facade, and not 6 months later.
Just a thought………..So the thought occured me tonight….maybe my ex EUM was simply not able to open up to me…maybe it was me…maybe I did not probe him enough and try and fix his issues…He seems to be doing fine with his new girlfriend..they are spending nearly every day together….He always told me he could not do that because he was so hurt that it would take him time…so I always gave him his guy time and never pushed…So now I wonder why he can spend so much time with her without him getting scared off…..I guess I am just confused as to why this girl can bring him out of his shell and I could not….I spent a year with him…and he has been dating this girl for 3-4 weeks and it seems like he is totally in-fatuated with her….Is it just because it is New or is she giving him something that I did not….I sometimes wonder if it was me..or is this simply the pattern that they follow….
I am doing better and am finally starting to feel good about myself but this is simply a nagging question…I so wonder WAS IT ME??? OR HIS ISSUES??? He seems so happy with her…but it is still new so wonder if it will wear off like it did for me and him and she will end up going through everything that I have gone through…
Any thoughts would be greatly appriciated..
Lizzie,
If he needs more care and therapy than the average joe – then you would be treating him. Providing therapy. Molding his personality, retraining his emotional landscape.
My concern about this is two-fold: 1) How many of us, outside licensed pyscho-therapy professionals, are qualified to make this level of intervention?; and 2) If you could and did provide that level of therapy, how could it be ethical for you to have a personal relationship with him? The role of therapist is immensely powerful, and horribly tempting to corruption and taking advantage (just look at the damage abusers do, without the training!).
Yes, you might have been able to solve his problems – but at that point you would have had to have been skilled enough to recognize you could never have a relationship with him.
If it is any consolation, Wired.com reports that Swedish research has tracked guys with relationship inabilities, to a variation on the gene that causes autism. Autism – in acute cases absorption in imaginative activity .. with loss of contact with reality: an abnormality of childhood development affecting language and social communication. “Is Lover Boy a Louse? It May Be Genetic” –
http://www.wired.com/medtech/genetics/news/2008/09/portfolio_0903
This guy has short-bus type ‘special needs’ that the average citizen is not equipped to address. I imagine EUM’s do well in the military. In love? They are disadvantaged,
Not everyone is equipped to be a Special Ed worker. There is no shame in not having the inclination, training, and opportunity. But it does mean you have to leave the EUM Special Ed types to the professionals.
If you are concerned about what you can do, there are marriage (and relationship) programs, some sponsored by states. The local Oklahoma Marriage Initiative has a couple of programs of free seminars. (http://www.okmarriage.org/). Topics include conflict resolution, communications, and intimate topics. We may have heard all of it from our parents, but the best thinking has changed somewhat since our parents heard our grandparent’s best advice. Check your local and community resources for programs available. You don’t always have to be married or engaged to attend.
Glad to hear that you are doing better!
he actually didn ruin my birthday. i had a great nite with good friends, loads of food and drink. my old eum invited me into his, i went for a polite drink and then left when he tried it on. he now knows he is just my neighbour.
my ex new guy texted me this morning asking if i had a sore head as yet i havent replied. i will reply i will see him again just so i can make a dramatic exit lol oh and get my stuff off him. i wont fall for this shit again.
Lizzie – its hard to say, but I can empathize with you. Not knowing you or him or the situation other than what you have described it’s really difficult to give an informed opinion.
My thoughts are this – it could be because of both you and him. Everyone has issues and people relate differently to different people. Don’t you have different sort of friendships with each of your friends? Of course you friendships are based on respect, trust, things in common, etc…. But for instance I have friends that I exercise with and socialize with. I have other friends that I have known for years and they know me inside and out. But we don’t socialize as much because they are married with families. I have friends that are professional friends and we talk about our careers. I have friends that are work friends and we go out for drinks after work and indulge in office gossip.
Maybe he and this woman clicked in some way and are in the honeymoon phase right now. I can guarantee you if he has issues being an EUM they aren’t going to be “fixed” overnight unless he is committed to fixing them. And even then change doesn’t happen overnight.
Maybe you are EU also. I know I am/was. It’s taken me nearly two years of reading and learning about emotional unavailability to grasp how it’s affected me and my relationships. Am I changing – yes – but it’s hard and the progress is slow.
I’ve had several relationships where they guy seems unavailable with me and then shortly after our relationship fails he starts dating someone and it’s ended up in marriage.
Looking back, I know that I was also exhibiting unavailable, unhealthy behavior in those relationships.
It has nothing to do with looks, smarts, etc…. It has everything to do with how two people relate.
You are not responsible for “fixing” your ex. You never were. Men generally don’t want to be fixed, saved or mothered. If there is any fixing to be done, they need to do it on their own time.
My best advice for you for getting through this is to just let him go. Letting go is very painful at first. But – you will notice – maybe a few weeks after the painful first couple weeks of beginning to let go – that letting go feels GREAT. You will experience a new sense of freedom, space and feeling good that is just out of this world.
So let him have his relationship. LET GO of him. Focus on you and your issues (whatever they may or may not be).
Good luck!
Dear Lizzie:
I totally agree with Ashley that it is him and not you. The book by Bryn C. Collins, “EMOTIONAL UNAVAILABILITY: RECOGNIZING IT, UNDERSTANDING IT, AND AVOIDING ITS TRAP” makes the same point — YOU DIDN’T BREAK HIM. YOU ARE NOT RESPONSIBLE TO FIX HIM. Ashley is also right about letting go. It is extremely hard, Lizzie, and I do understand — I’m going through that right now and it’s been excruciatingly painful for me so I can definitely empathize with you. There’s a great class that I’m taking at my new church and we are looking at relationship problems, etc. in the context of asking the right questions and not overlooking the red flags. I’ve been there myself with my friend Lisa and overlooked the red flags — I got hurt when she pushed away years ago (RED FLAG), then she pulled me back in, then she pushed me away again (RED FLAG), now it appears that she’s trying to pull me back in. The question is based on the verse from Proverbs 28:23 — “He who trusts in his own heart is a fool, but he walks in wisdom will be delivered” and is framed as follows: Based on (1) your past experiences, (2) your current circumstances, and (3) your future hopes and dreams, what is the wise thing to do? if you EUM hurt you and frustrated you in the past because of his emotional unavailability, there is a great possibility that it will happen again and get worse in the future. As Dr. Phil McGraw says — THE BEST PREDICTOR OF FUTURE BEHAVIOR IS PAST BEHAVIOR. He left you in the past, he will leave you again in the future. I learned the hard way with my friend Lisa, she disappeared on me after helping me with some medical issues (she works at a major hospital) and then showed up again as my “long lost friend” (her words), and then after getting reconnected again this past December, she pulled away again (the “too busy” excuse, etc.). And while she had been abandoned in her life (divorced parents, her ex, etc.), she abandons and hurts me. It’s not going to get better in either of our cases, unfortunately, but we can learn to minimize the problem by dealing with our pain, grieving our losses, accepting reality, and realizing that we deserve better. In other words, we must give up the false hope and illusions that the emotionally unavailable person will one day respect and love us. The emotionally unavailable person acts out of their own hurts and focuses on their own hurts (self-focused, self-centered, selfish, etc.) that they lack empathy and ignore the fact that other people have feelings too. Lizzie, you deserve someone who loves you for you, and this is probably just one of your future hopes and dreams, and when we look at it as such, we realize that the emotionally unavailable person is NOT the right person for us, and we should not SETTLE for less and we should NOT settle for the crumbs of attention that they show to us. FOCUS on the character of the person and the qualities of character that you truly need to have in a mate, and guard your heart until you find out that the person is of a good character and not emotionally unavailable and/or a narcissist. Too often, we get lured in by a person’s good looks and charm, but as it says in Proverbs 31:30 “Charm is deceptive and beauty is fleeting.”
Best regards and God bless,
David
i said i wouldnt let this annoy me but it is
Debs,
Some useful diversion tactics:
– babysit for a friend
– help a friend – move, clean, shop, just converse (not about guys!), visit a park
– List out the maintenance due on your car, for the next year.
– Plan out when you will buy your next car. List the feature you need; assume $5 gas.
– Do laundry. Mend clothes. Turn the mattresses and box springs.
– Get a pattern, sew a Halloween costume. By hand?
– Guy-flick movie marathon. Watch 12 movies in the next week. Each has to have John Wayne, Steven Siegal, or Kurt Russell, and either a Navy ship, at least five horses, show the inside of a police station, or a desert or mountain. Maybe Jimmy Stewart, too, or Kelsey Grammer. Nothing more ‘girly’ than Mulan.
– Imagine you are stranded on an island, or the electricity utility failed for a month and you have to bunch up with 10 neighbors. List out the 4 skills you think would be most useful. Go to the library, and look up a couple of them, and read up.
Focus on your daily routine; get plenty of rest, drink *lots* of water, re-think each meal, to eat a nicely balanced diet. Avoid stimulants like caffeine and nicotine – yes, put that tin of Skoal chewing tobacco away! Take a 20-30 minute walk at least once a day, either alone or with friends. Sometimes annoyance can be a reflection of stress as well as events. Deliberately de-stressing improves health, improves the spirits, and often the attitude. Focusing on de-stressing distracts you from being annoyed at .. oh, whatever.
Blessed be!
i made the mistake of listening to his excuses, they do seem valid, but i am not being fooled, however i always feel guilty if i dont give people the benefit of the doubt. he said his battery died and he couldn’t reach me.
ok i know what your gonna say, i have forgiven him, everyone is entitled to one mistake in my opinion, but when i say one mistake i mean one. i will stand strong.
Hi Brad
I know that you are well-meaning and that you are correct about forgiveness in that we are to always forgive others for the wrongs that they have committed against us, but you mixed up two different passages from the New Testatment.
Both Matthew 5:39 (“If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also”) and Luke 6:29 (“If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also”) talk about turning the other cheek, and Matthew 18:21-22 talks about forgiving a number of times — so many times that it would be hard to keep track of — and thus, as you point out Jesus was really saying to forgive a countless number of times: Matthew 18:21-22 (Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, “Lord, how many times shall I forgive me brother when he sins against me? Up to seven times?” Jesus answered, “I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times>’). Forgiveness is a matter of the heart, but forgiveness does not necessarily mean that one cannot establish proper and healthy boundaries with another person. I highly recommend DR. HENRY CLOUD AND JOHN TOWNSEND, BOUNDARIES and BOUNDARIES IN DATING. They are well-regarded Christian psychologists and they make the point about establishing healthy boundaries so that a person does not end of hurting themselves in relationships where the other person is abusive, manipulative, etc. By the way, I just want to say that I always look forward to your posts because you share alot of wisdom and knowledge with all of us. Thank you, Brad, and God bless!!!
David
Debs,
Don’t confuse his story with why you aren’t going to see him anymore. He is who he is. And because he doesn’t happen to be a guy you need in your life, you are protecting yourself from him. It isn’t blame, or even hurt, directly. You and he are past the point of excuses and apologies – he is now outside the circle of those you cherish, and because of his history with you, he will never again enter into your circle.
You don’t want to waste his time, because that is rude and you are working on being courteous, so an honest, disciplined, and courteous gentleman will find you attractive. You don’t want him hanging around or talking to you, because he distracts you from increasing the joy in your life, and from serving those you love and those in need.
Umm. I am kinda getting back to ‘No Contact’ is better, aren’t I? Well, I guess this is the right place to come to the conclusion that NML’s been right all along!
I am not sure counting mistakes is the right thing to do. I know the New Testament claims seventy-times-seven is not too many times to turn the other cheek, which to me says ‘don’t count’. I think you have to look at the ‘mistake’. Where there is disrespect or recklessness, I am not sure that once is forgivable. Where there is genuine inability to learn, I am not sure 490 (seventy times seven) is too many. When you get into addictive behavior patterns, commonplace dishonor, disrespect, or deceit, there is no solution but point them at a professional and haul your exposed, at-risk butt into a safe place – and keep the warped dude out.
And remember – you reward a guy -any guy – by being there. Just by listening you make tacit promises of affection, he feels that he has drawn you to him – by being there, listening, you are drawn to him. *Don’t confuse the message.* Keep the communications short, clear, and keep it simple so you will be understood. As I say, “No.”, and leave.
Luck!
David, Sorry – I hadn’t even been thinking about forgiveness.
Forgiveness implies an insult, and offense. An offense must be answered unless restitution – an apology is sometimes enough – alters the offense, and forgiveness granted.
Within a realtionship, with someone we respect, adore, and cherish, we are better off not regarding a mistake, an unintentional slight. We don’t get angry with the pebble in our shoe, nor do we expect an apology. We identify the issue, deal with it (take the shoe off, shake it out, and discard it where it won’t harm anyone, for the slow-learner EUM’s that might be browsing through), and go on.
That is what I was thinking of about the turn the cheek thing. Not keeping track of apologies and insults and offenses. But with someone of good character, we tell them we were hurt, or ask them to avoid that particular irritation (“Be on time next time. Being late feels rude.:”), or choose to let the incident go.
We cannot do that in a bad relationship. The graceful, generous approach that is appropriate with a healthy partner will let someone of bad character manipulate us, harm us deeply. An apology for disrespect and negligence and getting caught (instead of an apology for making a mistake or causing a hurt) cannot be accepted – we place those we love and ourselves in danger. Forgiveness for politeness’ sake here would be a lie, and uttering a lie causes us more harm than being discourteous enough to reject a false apology or insincere excuse.
Forgiveness is something that enemies *must* do to create peace. If you have to forgive your partner, does that mean you recognize their basic enmity? No, I wasn’t thinking of forgiveness, but failing to take offense with one you love.
i may have confused you guys somewhat. i dont mean i have forgiven my eum. i mean i have forgiven my new bloke. i told him i didn’t like what he had done he apologuised and said it wouldn’t reoccur. he will get a chance to prove this if it happens again he will be sent packing.
a friend pointed out that i come across as being very laid back and perhaps he thought i just didn’t care one way or the other, so instead of ignoring the problem i pointed it out, told him he was rude and that if it was the way he thought he could treat me he was wrong.
he did explain what happened and it seems plausable, therefore i do think on this occasion i will give him the benefity of the doubt. everyone is entitled to one mistake surely especially in the first month when you are getting to know each others boundries, i made it clear what i will and will not put up with, i told him that if he treated me this way he would not hear from me again. he was sincere in his apology.
last nite he took me out. not only did he ring to set a time but texted several times to confirm his progress and was 5 minutes early. he opened doors and acted like a real gentleman, he did say i was hard to read, that i came across as an independantt tom boy, he also said i slightly scare him and confuse him, he asked me a lot about the movies and music i like, saying this would give him a better insight into what i want from life, and i think i shocked him by being into chick flicks as opposed to action movies although i do like both.
not sure but i think he is paying attention, i think he deserves a chance, but i will be carefull not to fall into the usual cycle, i am being very blunt this time.
as for my old eum that is over and he knows it, i made that clear.
i didn’t mean to but found myself judging him by what my eum had done. i thought i was being unfair, i want to use my past not to make the same mistakes but i dont want to fall into the same trap as before
Debs, If the guy isn’t EUM, you may be straying off-topic, lol!
Consider something I was told, that makes sense to me. A girl’s responsibility on a date, is to make the date fun (as in enjoyable) for the guy. If she doesn’t, he should be responsible and find someone else. If she doesn’t *enjoy* making the time together fun for him, she should thank him for the occasion, and stop seeing him.
We all carry baggage that can get in our way, and we have to be careful about reacting to the past instead of the present. It can be tough, keeping from getting hurt while being courteous, generous, relaxed and enjoy the occasion, too.
My ex EUM found out I went out on a date and called me to ask who it was what my intentions were bla bla
When i asked if it was any of his business he said yes because he still loved me and thought about me constantly
What a jerk…
he still thinks he owns me…
See that’s the point as soon as they feel that you are moving on they come sniffing around like a bad smell
I agree I was so taken aback by it all…
his words were how could you do this and he made derrogatory comments about my date..I have a feeling he followed me
when is said to him ok you still think about me and love me…so what do you want me to do about it??? He didn’t have an answer he said look i want to be there with you when you have your procedure (a minor gynaelogical problem i was having) i said are you kidding thats a month of and why would you want that…he answered he cared
what a lot of boloney…
he doesnt care…he assumed i would sit around and wait for him and he was shocked that i had started to move on..
I suffered so much when he dumped me…but i came through and i dont think about him with the neediness that i did a month ago..I dropped all contact suddenly and we hadn’t spoken for weeks…i started to feel like my old self again
Elena, Strong words come to my mind. Your EUM checking on you might feel like love to him, I wouldn’t know. But his actions say *stalking* and “sexual harassment:” and “predator” and make me think of reporting his harassment to police or other authority. “Bully” comes to mind, too.
He may be a jerk. Use the strong words, to bring home to him that his actions are violating your peace and rights. And especially if he is inappropriate at work.
Umm, this is the post on ‘yo-yo’ and ‘No Contact’.
Unless you welcome and enjoy his company, he is human SPAM – unsolicited, unwanted. A blog or forum TROLL. You defeat a troll by starving them – they live on attention. Any time you pay attention, call a troll names, respond in any way at all – you feed them. Like feeding bears, they don’t move on, and cause pain, injury, and mayhem looking for more handouts – more contact with you, more conversation, more attention.
Don’t over look that his excuses and explanations and protests of affection are already winning him attention and conversation – he has already ‘won’ because you are listening and responding. If you consider his explanations, etc., you feed him again.
In short – No Contact. Limit conversations, when they can’t be avoided, to ‘No.’, not repeated, and walk away. Protect yourself – what he wants doesn’t matter any more than what a purse-snatcher wants, if you aren’t interested.
Question: Does he ever stop coming back? On his own?
Michelle no they dont
if you read some of my posts earlier on my eum was not married but still attached or probably never left his ex a much much older woman..he would never comiit or give fully to me as he would have to account to her – she never knew about us and we were together almost 2 years.
Around 6 weeks ago he causes a silly fight breaks off with me a week before our annual leave ruins our vacations which were paid for in full – i end up going with a girlfriend heartbroken and i almost fell into depression. I was a mess i cried and i begged him to give us a chance and i was pathetic. Then i dissapear of the face of the earth..
It took him 3 weeks to make the first contact and since i was seen out on a date by a friend of his he has upped the volume.
This morning i get this pathetic text
‘I have tried all of this time to get you out of my mind but i failed at this..I have to tell you that i feel much more fore you than i believed.’
So what does he expect now??? That this will erase all of the pain that this will make me feel better for the hell i went through????
I agree with brad it is harrassment EUM feel like you are their property even when they leave, so they do come back on their own, but when they feel that they are losing control they come back stronger and more manipulatively
PS any ideas if i should answer or just ignore the creep?
Hi guys
Thanks for your support and encouragement as I navigate this turbulent part of my life.
Debs: I smiled at your early post re: daring to give advice. Sounds like me! I would tell my g/friends to loose that loser and look at me now…
Carm: Thanks for your kind words
Lizzie: Why her and not you. Why was Stonehenge built. There are some things that we’ll never know for sure. But what I can tell you is that your EUM is likely to follow the script with New Chick where he “opens” up, woos and pursues her. Then he’ll start blowing cold, just like he did you. I wouldn’t be surprised if in a few weeks time she confides to her g/friends about this “great” guy she met but how he isn’t available/stands her up/she doesn’t know where the relationship is going blah blah blah. At least you’re out and can move on with your life. And David is right – it’s not your responsibility to fix him.
Ladies, wish me luck. I slipped on NC after day 3 when he instant messaged me and started talking about the relationship. I told myself I would only look. Then I couldn’t help but respond when he wrote that he was under no obligation to me and that I didn’t own him. I told him how I felt (for the umpteenth time) and then told him to pi$$ off. He went offline as I was responding and I have not seen or heard from him since. I’ve now blocked him from my email and IM.
This time I actually want him to leave me alone. I am trying really hard with NC. I don’t call for sure, but the texts are my downfall. (My carrier doesn’t provide call blocking). So I’ve set myself some goals: not responding in any fashion to EUM, eating healthy and keeping busy.
I will keep you updated on my progress and look forward to reading happy endings from all who posted.
We are MUCH stronger than we think.
Elena,
Option 1, tried and true; No Contact rule.
Option 2, my own thought. Answer, “No.”, don’t repeat, and go to Option 1 above. No conversation, no eye contact, no answering anything else. If you had walked by a used car lot, and the salesman ran onto the sidewalk to entice you into buying some car that you didn’t want, he would teach you through repetition, that the only way to get away from his spiel and enticement and badgering – is to walk away. Now pretend that you understand that lesson that the used car salesman would have painfully made clear – and apply it to Mr. Conflicted. And walk away. His problems are his, you have no responsibility to fix anything or answer any of his needs. You do have a responsibility to yourself and those you respect and cherish, though, to protect yourself from harm – like the EUM.
Luck.
There is a very simple solution to this YO-YO behaviour – CUT ALL CONTACT.
Go cold turkey, block his emails, tell him it’s over, tell him you have met someone else, tell me he’s the biggest arse to walk the planet – anything to get it into his head that you are not that weak person you once were – AND even if he does come crawling back (and in my case he didnt) ignore him.
These men are pathetic – it amazes me that I actually thought the man (who was not married but in a long term relationship) was the best I could ever get, I was truly blinkered. I thought he was gorgeous, we connected on every level (how wrong was I) and it was something completely unique – BUT IT IS NEVER UNIQUE.
I found, in my situation, that they are very clever. I was brainwashed into thinking he was the best thing since sliced bread – he boosted my ego, and i boosted his (something clearly lacking in his relationship).
I realised that the relationship this man has is with himself. He couldnt care less about his other half, or his other woman, he cares about himself.
The fact is, we wouldnt be YO YO’s if we cut ALL contact.
In my situation, I was 23 and he seeked me out, and from there on in it snow balled. He was 8 years older than me, I had no control over what I was doing let alone know what it was like to have this amazing LOVE connection – i fell for the con artist hook, line and sinker, and by about year 3 we both had had enough, I moved on but never forgot him. When I broke up with my then boyf he was quick to move on in and I let him – i became available
I was literally living off crumbs – meeting in private, sneaking weekends together when he had no better offers, it was a complete farce but I allowed it. I thought I loved him (as you do) but it more of an obsession.
Reality hit me full force in the head when he took a 2 week holiday. I realised I didnt want to be with this lowlife, he had a rubbish job, a dysfunctional relationship, no money and absolutely no drive for life.
I really did settle for absolutely squat all – I cannot believe I lowered myself to that level.
But then you pull yourself out of that, because actually – why waste life in this way. We have one life to live – and we are wasting time, the hurt/the pain/the tears/the void/not being together when it matters/the lies/the deceit..it’s all for nothing.
Ladies – they never leave, and let’s be honest – do we really want a liar, a cheat and a devious piece of crap in our lives – NO.
Aim higher, the world is our oyster!
well im lost
i dont know whether im coming or going, the new guy eum or not, i just dont know.
he doesnt seem smooth enough to be an eum, he has a lot on his plate at the moment, but i am none to pleased. understatement of the year.
hes running warm and cold. (notice i didnt say hot)
hes starting to remind me of my ex husband in some ways.
im not sure i can take much more of this.
Debs, have you thought of taking a “man break” for a while? Maybe you just need to focus on yourself and not worry about having to have a man in your life right now. I know that our self-esteem takes a real hit when we are involved with “toxic” people (like EUMs) and sometimes you just need to let it go and concentrate on other areas of your life like hobbies, family, friends, etc. And sometimes in doing that, we regain a lot of our self-worth and are in a more positive frame of mind to meet people and start new relationships. Just a suggestion! Take care.
HEY DEBS…How are you doing?? Sounds like you have met a new one..My advise go with your Gut…Wish I had done that a long time ago….By the way I am doing better and better each day..Have dropped 12 pounds and am getting my self esteam back…and I think cynnie was right…My ex EUM has now gotten cold with his new one and has been looking my way….But Iwill not LQQK back..I am moving forward and never thought I was going to be able to do that. But Holding Strong 🙂
Hi Ladies
Debs: I agree with Lizzie that you should follow your gut. What bothers me though, is that you’ve just met and already you’re giving excuses for him (he has a lot on his plate). Be on your guard! FSTL is right too – maybe you should just relax and chill for a bit.
Lizzie: 12 pounds! Wow. I’d like to lose some myself. Congrats.
Me: Mr. EUM texted me, saying that he loved me and missed me a lot. I wanted to text him, telling him that I loved him too. I wanted to scream at him and ask him if that’s how you treat the woman you love. Then I remembered Brad K’s post about human spam and I ignored the text.
I was happy for about 10 seconds (yeah! He still cares!) when I got that text then I got angry. What does he want me to do? He had his chance time and time again and blew me off. He was always busy. We live in a small town and he works 3 minutes walking distance from my office and I NEVER saw him. After much ado and nothing, I give up and walked away. His texts give me false hope and make me doubt myself. To be on the safe side, I haven’t responded.
NML is right. These guys behave like the proverbial dog in the manger. Wish me courage and I look forward to hearing your take on this.
i no what you guys mean, but if you dont try you dont learn. im not making excuses for him, there is something he has to deal with that is big, it not something to do with women but its family stuff and i can see him juggling. thing is i have known him for years but from a distance. he said he was watching me from i was 15 and that is a long time, im 41 now.
tha thing is he is very laid back, except where family is concerned. he has to go away for a while, his parents are old and have no one else, he is afraid they wont be here when he comes back, he also thinks that i wont be here when he gets back, thing is the way he is behaving i might not be.
i dont want to be cruel but i feel i should come first, and if he wants me to wait for him he would need to give me a good reason to be, and so far he is not.
he has to work long hours to sort out the money fo what he is doing and this is making him erratic. but i feel this is not my problem, then i think i am being very unfair.
if i do spilt with him i wont be dating anyway. so together or not i will still be alone concentrating on me.
however if my old eum finds out im single again he will be back like the proverbile bad penny, and im afraid i can not resist him, i have tried. so having this new guy in my life is the only thing keeping the old one at bay, as believe it or not he will not step on this guys toes so to speak.
he is like a safety net.
i know my new guy is not messing around with other women, he is either working or with his parents, but he is very quiet and shy. i saw that when he asked me out, and when he tried to kiss me. he seems very inexperienced and unsure of himself.
Girls, time is precious, LIFE IS SHORT! Why are you wasting your energy on these men.
DEBS – I know the position you are in,because we have all been there – trust me, there was a stage when I thought being with him (the part time,’I can give you crumbs’ man) was better than being with no-one! but this is not the case!
Debs, your man is NO safety net – you need to be on your own. You are not only playing into his hands, you are also chipping away at your own self-esteem without even knowing it. The damage that these men do takes months, if not years to repair! I know you probably can’t see this at the moment, but trust me – making the right choice and having NO-ONE is better than having the wrong one!!
I wasted so many years feeling absolutely rubbish about myself, I ‘thought’ i was loved/cared for and adored, when in actual fact I was being undermined/belittled/taken for granted/and taken for a complete mug.
I know that getting it all out in the open really helps – it made me realise what a complete idiot I had been, but also..constant obsessing over the did he’s/didnt he’s/what if’s/he did this/he did that’s make no difference to the situation.
Unfortunately, the great picture we paint of these men is not, in reality, the truth. I promise you you will find peace if you let the anger come to the surface! In my opnion, remembering that he still has sex with his other half pulls me back to reality! Let’s think about this closely, he is in bodily contact, kissing, touching and connecting with another person that is not us, and quite rightly so – he was not ours to begin with!
We, ladies ( and I dont mean to judge) have been been extremely selfish and and so has he – he’s in a relationship. He was not ours to begin with, and the stark reality is he never will be.
Come on ladies – we need to stop using precious brain space on these men.
xxxxx
Debs, “if you dont try you dont learn” – yes, but.
There are a lot of things you can learn from yourself. It takes a lot of work and effort to adapt to a partner, and it has to be done from a position of strength. That is, your self-esteem has to be in line, you have to be aware of your own needs, and you should have a good understanding of what you are willing to contribute – where your boundaries are.
And that takes time to prepare. Our thinking adapts to the people in our lives, we anticipate what sets others off, what they like, what we enjoy doing for them, how to avoid being hurt. Our emotions engage with a partner at many levels. With the first breaths we exchange in a small place or when close, our bodies begin to adapt, to bond, to synchronize with each other.
You have to have time after a relationship, before your body’s rhythms, your mind’s accommodations, your emotional balance re-centers to you.
If you rush things too much, you begin where you left off – hyper-sensitive to the problems of the last guy, alert to being hurt, and generally unready to celebrate what a partner can bring into our lives.
If you aren’t ready, you will notice or select a guy based on the same assumptions and values that you used the last time, making the odds you select another problem guy just horrible.
The time after you break off needs to be spend accomplishing a *lot* – get to know yourself, question all your intimate and emotional assumptions, identify the many layers of assumptions that lead to picking the last guy. And if you can’t find what made picking the last guy the best thing you could do, at that time,. you likely aren’t ready for another guy.
Parakeets are social birds. You need a flock of at least a dozen, or none of them will mate. You can teach a lone parakeet to talk and mimic sounds; it takes a lot of repetition, and the vocabulary will be a dozen words or so. But give a parakeet a buddy, a second parakeet to share cage and attention, and you won’t be able to teach the bird much of anything. Even a mirror lets your parakeet think he has a buddy – and he will be so distracted it accomplishes the same thing – the bird has a companion (the image in the mirror) and no attention for other things.
We are *different* alone, than when in a relationship. Our partner occupies a *lot* of our attention and our lives. That is why we speak of sharing lives; we bond into a couple, into combined lives.
You may have grabbed a new guy to prove to yourself that you didn’t make a mistake the last time, that he was just flawed. You may have grabbed onto a guy because of fear of being alone, you may be thinking that a single woman is damaged or something – and when you have just come from a bad relationship, then you do carry emotional injuries.
Jumping right out again so soon, is something a dater would do. Not something that you do when you are looking for a fulfilling relationship.
Debs, you may have panicked, you may have wanted a guy to keep from hurting about the last one, but you aren’t ready, yet, to give a partner what a partner should expect – your heart.
If you do decide to back away, thank him for his attention, apologize for getting ahead of yourself, explain you aren’t ready yet. And wish him well. Keep his number, but don’t promise to call – you don’t know, yet, who you will be or what your values and needs will be, in six months or a year. And you need to cut the ties, to make your healing more complete.
Sorry this isn’t working out.
Brad you are a man of wisdom.
i dont mind be single i actually like it.
and the new guy is getting dumped tonight.
last night he claimed he was home in bed. i was in the area so i decided to call in and say hi. he he was neither in his home or his bed. he doesnt know that i know yet. i am going round to pick up my stuff, then as i am leaving i am going to tell him its over, im not going to tell him i know he was out last night, not am i going to give him a reason, this guy deserve my thoughts or feelings.
as for dating right now i dont want to, i have looked around and so far i dont see anything i want to waste my time on. i have got a few good dvds in, im getting popcorn a bottle of wine and some marshmallows, gonna light the fire put on cosy pjs and just chill out, even switching my phone off.
i did the right thing i gave him a chance, but he is not worth a grain of me.
funny thing it doesnt hurt a bit, well at the minute anyway.
Debs,
The best revenge is living well. That is, don’t get dramatic, or involved with breaking up. Since you are letting him go, let go all the baggage, too. He may have his reasons for having left the house after talking to you – and it won’t matter tomorrow morning.
Thank him for his time and his care for you, wish him well, and go on.
This approach, since he hasn’t done any major harm, lets you recover quicker. You don’t tie more angst, anger, or other strong emotions into letting go, and moving on.
I don’t consider ‘being single’ to be the same thing as ‘not in a relationship’. Living single is a life, and a life style. You might choose that in the future, but for now your focus is on the transition from ‘attracts dubious guys’ to ‘inspires wholesomeness’. And let the single or relationship thing sort itself out, after you have found yourself.
Peace, and luck!
Thank you all for your support over this very difficult time in my life…I feel I am getting stronger by the day and maybe walking away was the best for both us.
.As I am doing better by woking out and moving on with my life….I simply guess that maybe I was not right for him . And his new girl seems to be doing it all…From what my friends tell me she is totally running his life and he is simply in aww with her..In my book that would have been controlling and that is something I thought he would never go for…I can’ beleive it is the same guy at all…I struggled for a year with him gave him the space he needed and did not push at all…However his new girl is totally changing him,,,never thought he would ve been receptive to change,,
So maybe my ex EUM can be emotionally availably but he just could not with me…, truly hope it works out for him because maybe I should have been more like her…but did not want to push or hurry him…They have only been together for 7 weeks,,,,and she is playing Wife to him and she met his daughter over the weeend and all seems to be going well…..from what I hear….This woman is forcing him to spend more time with his daughter….which is great but when I had suggsted it he always said he was not ready for all of that….He has always been a party boy but for some reason this woman has gotten him to change….WOW…More power to her…
Not sure if his emotionally Unavailability will come back out again with her but seems like they are doing well…for now or it could just be the old honeymoon phase…I know I could never go back now since he cheated on me with her but my nagging qustion I guess to myself is what could I have done dfferently??? I gave this man my all……and he still wondered off from time to time every time he got close!!! It drove me inscane… So what do yo think she has that I do not…Could it be her Caregiver side??? Her Mommy Side…I think maybe this is what he wanted all along….Just looking for advice so I do not make the same mistake again.
Thanks Again for all the support!!!!
lizzie
dont be mislaid by what you see or hear, the only people that know what is going on is him and her, and they may not even be on the same page, he may have more than one game, she may have something he wants that she is holding back and he is just playing along til he gets it. she may be his one but i doubt it.
you need to ignore both of them and the gossip wether is is well meant or not, sometimes friends tell you what you want to hear or what they think you need to hear even without knowing they are doing it.
they guy is wrong for you end off.
he may be right for someone else, but thats not your buisiness or your problem.
delete him from your life.
i know its hard but i am going through it too and i am giving myself the same advice and its damn hard to swallow.
concentrate on you.
good luck. xox
i am sooo annoyed with myself – HERE’S ME telling everyone else to CUT CONTACT, to ignore that piece of sh-it, and I fell off wagon today and emailed him and told him i miss him ( even when i actually don’t, I feel relief we arent together anymore! WHY DID I DO IT!? I told him where I stood, how I was going to move on without him etc etc etc, and obviously when I emailed he doesnt respond – why would he? He is probably thinking ” excellent, I can have her anytime I like as she misses me” I now am maintaining the NO CONTACT RULE – help needed please!:) xx
HEY CLUED…Delete his email address and His Phone Number…out f your phone..I think Silence is the hardest thing to do…But in the long run you will be so much better off….I have not spoken to my Ex EUM in almost 8 weeks…It is super hard we live on the same street so unfortunately we have to pass each other from time to time…and all he does is stare at me like he knows he screwed up…but will not even look his way…
Do not even give him the satisfaction that you miss him…It wil only feed his needy !
Ignore him at all cost and do your best to move on….
NEVER ALLOW SOMEONE TO LIVE IN YOUR MIND RENT REE !!!!!
STAY STRONG we have all slipped up But get back on track and stay their!!
Hello all! I’ve been reading your posts and I’m so relieved that I’m not the only one going through this type of situation. However….I think I’m the first gay guy to post.
So I’ve been seeing this guy now for over eight months and I know that from the start he was a total EUM! We just broke things off because of the fact that he said he has done a lot thinking and wants to get back and work on his relationship with his ex. OUCH!!! But get this…….This whole time that I’ve been seeing him….he has been living with ex the whole time. When we first dated he mentioned that he and his ex bought a house together and that they were trying to figure out what they were going to do. He told me in the mean time that he was living with his grandparents. Yeah BS until I found out that they were still living together! When I contronted him about this….he just simply said I’m sorry I ment to tell you a long time ago, I just didn’t think that you would understand. Yeah understand the fact you still live with your ex under the same roof and the whole time you have sleeping and seeing me! This answers my question as to why he never invited me over nor spent the night at my house ever!!
He told me that I have a lot to offer, and that if the timing was perfect he would totally have been happy with me instead of his BF. If I have a lot to offer than why is he not with me??? He tells me that he’s gotta see where this takes him now! He said that when he met me that he had totally shut the door on him and his BF but now little by little that door is beginning to open. He says he just has to see if there is still a chance that they will be happy. Okay…..but even though you got back with your BF why are we still sleeping together?? I didn’t mention the fact that were both 27 and his BF is 35. I’ve made the effort to hang out with all his friends and have gotten to really know them, and I still hang out with them. When I asked his friends about his BF they said that he hardly hangs out with them and they really don’t know him that well. They said they have spent more time with me than they have ever with his BF. Does that sound weird or what? They say when he is with me he is really happy! Well if he’s happy than why is he not with me?? They told me M is very materialistic and he likes traveling and going to all these places, and well his BF meets those needs. So basically he’s a sugar daddy! I can’t believe that he chose his happiness over trips and nice things. That’s what totally bugs me the most! Well I doing the NC thing, LOL well it’s easy for me I guess cause he is currently in Cancun with his boyfriend. Come to think of it, anytime he went on vacation, he was in a commited relationship when he was not, he liked spending time with me. I think that was his void. I knew when we were together he was truely really happy. He felt comfortable to be just himself. And I know he’s truely not happy being in this relationship with his BF he’s just afraid of loosing the nice the things and the exotic vacations.
Sorry, you were his fallback guy and I know that really hurts. He had the best of both worlds, his BF and you. You need to cut the contact or this “game” will go on for a long time. Eventually you will get so sick of his lies.Take care of yourself.
Dear Guy:
I can all understand your hurt feelings. We re all human beings after all. I wish I could have found this article that I recently read about signs of a healthy relationship, one of which was that you have been to where your partner lives and vice versa. The fact that you were only told about where he lived but had never visited should have been a warning sign to you (especially after a short period of time in a relationship). Please understand that I am not trying to criticize because I too have ignored or minimized red flags in the past and I didn’t follow-up with finding out the answers until after I developed feelings. I am simply trying to alert you to pay attention to the red flags in the future so that you will save yourself from alot of additional hurt.
You mentioned that your boyfriend was very materialistic. Those who are very materialistic are really very empty inside, and seek to fill the emptyness inside with things that keep them wanting more and more, and this is because they are searching for the wrong things, instead of love which leads to happiness. I realize that there are good qualities which attracted you to your boyfriend in the first place, but as we all find out the hard way by our broken hearts, these relationships are unfulfilling because there is not a genuine reciprocal love. And while our dreams our crushed — “Hope deferred makes the heart sick” (Proverbs). But don’t give up on yourself, even though it’s very hard at the moment and your spirit may be crushed. The rejections in life point us in the right direction — that of finding love — instead of our wasting time in an unfulfilling relationship where we are not loved in returned.
In many instances, the person who is emotionally unavailable is really acting out of his or her own hurts and fears (typically from childhood and reinforced later in life), and their FEAR is greater than their LOVE. As such, their FEAR is their primary operating factor and thus they act more out of their fears and in the end, they lead an empty life. They may have things but they don’t have love. I realized the importance of relationships when I had a near death experiences seven years ago and I didn’t think of work, hobbies, or things, but of God, family and friends — including my emotionally unavailable friend Lisa (it’s extremely hard for me to let her go because she was the first person I thought of in my second near death experience when I thought I was going to die in the ER). In this regard, as painful as it may be, the rejection is God’s protection of you, and the time that you are given in the future will not be wasted on your emotionally unavailable boyfriend, but can be used to find somone who loves you for you and vice versa.
We often think that it is our fault that our person didn’t love us (better looks, more money, etc.), but it is in actually — and please think about this point carefully because it took me a long time to understand it myself — it is really a reflection of the other person’s character, and not a reflection on you. Why did your boyfriend lie and mislead you as to where he lived? Because he knew that if you knew the truth, you would have rejected him. A person who is living with their ex is ALWAYS emotionally unavailable. But your emotionally unavailable boyfriend saw something very good in you — otherwise, he would not have wanted to be with you in the first place. You felt used because it was bascially a one-way street. He took the good things that you offered, and you only got something hollow and empty in return from him and that is reason for your hurts. And that’s the reason why the emotionally unavailable people come back because they can get something good from you. It does hurt because they don’t give back (selfish, narcissistic, etc.), but I do not envy them because unless something dramatically changes in their lives, they will forever be emotionally empty and truly lonely inside. They can’t love you because they can’t love themselves. It is very sad because emotionaly unavailable people still have good characteristics about them, it is just that the bad characteristics far outweigh the good ones in the long run, and that is often the exact reason why they hide their emotions from you and from themselves. They cannot love you because they do not love themselves.
God bless.
David
Gay Guy, You may be letting gossip (Umm .. nothing good can come from gossip, I consider gossip to be one of the true social evils.) and details distract you from what is important.
What is important is this guy is deceiving you. And has been deceiving you. Things that you consider important – truthfulness, satisfaction with one lover in your life, and basic respect for yourself and others – don’t seem to be important in this guy’s life. While you may want to settle down, to be a life mate with a responsible guy, to build a family and a secure nest – he is dating. He is dating left and right. What I consider a perpetual dater – he has no understanding of a deeper relationship, his habit of bobbing back and forth between dates is so well-practiced – it is his life style. I would guess that winning bed partners is also one of his life-skills. People don’t give up their life styles, just because they find someone comfortable.
Our bodies adapt to our intimate partners. Hormones and other cycles coincide at the chemical and physical level at the same time we adjust our expectations and satisfactions to what our partner enjoys. Which makes this question quite poignant – how many sex partners do you want to sleep with, second hand? The larger the number, the less your partner will be attuning to you, the less capacity for bonding he will have left for you – and the more likely that after some number of bondings, he loses the ability to ever form a family bond, ever.
I feel everyone is hard-wired to addictive, repetitive behavior. I don’t think there are fundamental differences between what makes a loyal partner, a good work ethic, and being ‘in a rut’ – continuing an unsatisfactory process or behavior rather than choosing to make a fundamental change.
Because a fundamental change is what is needed; a ‘little death’, a clearing away of the life you lived before, to make room to adjust and change to a new set of values. A change to choose to avoid people with weak character – deceitful, manipulative, dishonest in any way, and strive to live a morally upright life. The hazard if you don’t make a real change, is that you bounce right back – with another guy with the same character, the same lack of compassion and respect, the same issues, maybe for the same reasons – a cute look or smooth pickup line rather than a disciplined, secure, honorable partner. Hint: You won’t find as many good mate-candidates where you find dates looking for a ‘good time’. I would think you have had enough of ‘perpetual daters’.
Luck!
“It is very sad because emotionaly unavailable people still have good characteristics about them, it is just that the bad characteristics far outweigh the good ones in the long run, and that is often the exact reason why they hide their emotions from you and from themselves. They cannot love you because they do not love themselves.”
Very well said, David. They also hide their true self as long as they can.
Thanks Astelle
I just read an artilcle which featured an interview with DR. LES PARROTT (He and his wife LESLIE PARROTT are very well regarded Christian psychologists
and run a well respected center for RELATIONSHIPS
http://www.realrelationships.com/
And in the interview, DR. LES PARROTT stated that the most important quality for sustaining relationships is EMPATHY — the ability to put oneself in the other’s person’s shoes and he said that this requires both the mind and the heart. The emotionally unavailable people who break our hurts do so because of the LACK OF EMPATHY. In other words, the LACK OF EMPATHY is a huge red flag that we need to pay attention to, and it is the LACK OF EMPATHY that makes the relationships with emotionally unavailable people so ONE SIDED.
God bless all.
David
Hello all:
I meant “hearts” not “hurts” in my earlier post.
It just came to me that a very good but simple test for EMPATHY is if the other person REMEMBERS YOUR BIRTHDAY. A person who truly cares about you will find out when your is birthday by asking a simple question “when is your birthday” and will follow through with some action that shows that they rememberd your birthday and show that they care. If they don’t remember you on your birthday, when will they truly do something for you? Or an emotionally unavailable person and just using you? And while everyone makes mistakes and may forget, the failure to remember your birthday would be a good RED FLAG that the person LACKS EMPATHY and is emotionally unavailable. And are you remembered on VALENTINE’S DAY and SWEETEST DAY and CHRISTMAS? These are just some thoughts and possibly some clues as to a person’s emotionally avaialability or unavailability. Is it all about them or do they think sometimes about you? It’s just a thought.
Best regards,
David
David
if that were the case my eum loves me, and i can assure you thats not true, he seeks me out on my birthaday and always does something nice as well as something not so nice.
he actually seeks me out when he knows im feeling down and tries to cheer me up. but he is an eum a womaniser surely remembering dates is part of their charm.
well i have now ended it with all three of my eums, (my ex husband, the eum who brought me to these posts and the new guy.) god that looks bad.
gay guy
you have to put yourself first, there is someone for you but you wont find them till you are happy being you, and eums can seek out unhappy people and drain them for their own pleasure, stand firm.
Thank you David for your post! I have doing a lot of reflecting of myself and I’m now on a good path of just loving myself. I look at myself and realize that I’m a damn good catch. I have job that I love, and I’m surrounded by the most amazing group of friends and I have a wonderful place to live where all the action happens only a few blocks away from downtown. I come to realize that all along I had all these wonderful things to share with someone and if he could not see them…..than that’s his loss! I been doing NC and thus far it’s easy to do cause currently he is Mexico with his BF. I come to find that there was alwys a pattern. I think he would get caught up on the moment of going to places with his BF but give him a few days after he got back and it was right back to me. Like I said his BF is nine years older than he is and were both the same age. He and I have a lot in commen when it comes to stuff outside of our emotions. I feel like he thinks he can relate me more on this level, rather than being someone he is not when he is with his BF. I know that I want a lasting relationship with someone based on trust, love, commitment and communication. I know that I had everything to offer him and he had nothing to give me. So I wish him all the best with all my heart. Cause I have the same heart but it’s beating to a whole new beat. We all deserve someone that will give back what we give. You all can do it! I have not regrets of meeting him, cause he has opened up my eyes to the type of guys that I need to stay clear away from!! All I know is that I never have to live with the thought what if??? Because that I gave it my best shot and if he feels anything he will have to live with the thought what if? Because I’m letting the strings go!!!
Can it get any Worse………………So I guess my No Contact with the EUM came too late…..As some of you know found out he was cheating on me..Thats when I walked away…I did not know who else he had been with so to be safe I went in for a PAP and had them run all of my Blood for possible sexual transmitted diseases…I am still in SHOCK……………….My doctor called me on Tuesday and told me I was a infected with a STD that is only treatable not curable…So not only has this man ruined my life he has now threatened my Health…It has still not sunk in that I will have this condition for the rest of my life……..
I am sure he does not even know he has this but guess he will find out sooner or later after he has infected others……..I am simply SICK……….I am 44 have 3 grown children and have always lead a clean life….
Lizzie, That is too horrible.
Only, it is still getting worse. With STD’s you fall under Federal jurisdiction. You have to identify your partners (Centers for Disease Control regulations) – everyone you might have caught the STD from, or passed it on to. Because tracking down everyone that is exposed, getting them diagnosed and on record, is the only way to keep a lid on outbreaks of disease.
So, yes, you have an incurable STD – and you still have to give your doctor (at least!) the EUM’s name. This is *not* the time to be shy, at least with your doctor. Your doctor should handle reporting your partner for notification and followup.
It probably doesn’t help, but there is an effort to keep your information private.
And when you see your doctor about treatment, and to list your partners, be sure to ask about any restrictions you might have – donating blood, medical records, MedicAlert bracelets, etc. Find out if you have to be careful about contact with your kids. Gods, this does get gruesome. Ask about future partners.
You have to know, and you have to report him as being the source of your infection. You might save a future friend from this disease.
Keep in mind that life is *not* over – you just need to learn the new rules.
Blessed be.
Hi all
I made the mistake of meeting up with my ex eum more than 2 months after our break up. he was persisting and he said he needed to talk
Anyway he admitted to me that he was never 100% there in our relationship as he still felt guitly about his ex and he would lie to me to see her..
After a lot of other things that we said he told me the following
I want us to live together i will tell my ex about you (he always kept the fact that he had a rleationship a secret – and they had broekn up and he had moved out a year before he met me) then he said the following ‘but i want to see her once a week’ They don’t have children all they did was live together for 15 years…
I did not answer..
The next day i get text from him
‘Do what you feel is right…overall use your logic and decide with your head not your heart…and do what you really want…love you very much’
I was shocked its like he took back whatever he said
I replied if i was thinking with my head i would never talk to you again…its is because i was acting from the heart that i agreed to meet up with you…
I haven’t answered any of his calls since then I feel offended for some reason..i would have thought that after everything he put me through he would have said tell what you want me to do for you to come back to me..
Your thoughts are welcomed because he confused the hell out of me with his actions
Elena, I saw this comment come through and was shocked at your EUM – ok not shocked shocked but this is awful. One of the things we learn when we heal ourselves and stop chasing EUM’s is that the heart and the head are in sync when it’s a healthy relationship. You should be offended for many reasons not just some reason but you need to stop dignifying this man with your time and your heart and process and accept the meaning of what he is saying. Whatever you do with him, you’ll be sharing him with his ex, a woman he has been happy to deceive you about before and trust me, with men like this, even though it appears that he is now doing full disclosure, I would lay bets that he is drip feeding you the truth. You are sharing your man with a woman who he is not over and who he doesn’t want to be over. His relationship with her is a priority and he is more concerned about protecting his need to see her than doing the right thing by you. His offer is this ‘I want to have my cake and eat it too’. You need to call a halt to these ridiculous games and stop engaging because he is not going to change. He hasn’t come back after your 2 months of no contact and offered you everything; he’s just offering more crumbs. Once a man says he is not over her, he is not able to be with you. Don’t rationalise it and don’t try to compete – get out.
Dear NML
At first i felt vindicated – as he always made me feel like i was crazy and that it was all in my head that he was lying to me…
But i guess he had to lay this card on the table 2 months after we broke up as he had to…and you are right somewhere i did feel that he was drip feeding me..the truth when he was talking to me
Whenever we broke up in the past i would beg him to re consider – this time i did at first but then i just dissapeared and one month after our break up i was seen out with a new date by one of his friends and that is when he started to call me and text me..
I really dont think he will ever let go of her and i think he thought carefully about the bare minumum he could offer me to try and win me back – but he was gambling on how strong my emotions are for him (he is actually very cunning)
To be honest i thought about it for days – at first i felt i love him i will do anything and then as the days went by i was angry – foremost at myself..for even considering what he said..
It was like he was cutting a deal….putting himself in a position to still manage his life the way he pleased and for me to risk everything…
Elena, Looked at one way, your poor EUM saw his life come apart. Here he had two women to be intimate with, whenever he felt in the mood for one or the other. One big happy family.
Even when he knew it was grossly unfair to both, he lived a life of lies – that didn’t matter to him. He was ‘winning’ the dating game by getting to third base, regularly, with two (or more?) women a the same time. The high school/middle school boyhood locker room dream.
And you let him live that dream for a long time. Then you left. And he still has not grown up, still doesn’t have a clue about why dating is not the goal, a life together is the reason to pick a mate, only he doesn’t get what a mate is, either.
In his confusion and bewilderment he falls back on his schoolboy dream – and is trying to rebuild that kid type fantasy about dating two girls (or more!) at the same time. And that is what he is doing. He is telling you whatever story you will go along with to rebuild his fantasy.
1) He is living in a dream world.
2) He isn’t interested in what damage or injury he does to anyone
3) He isn’t mature, has no clue to what an adult’s responsibilities are in a relationship (or what the rewards would be).
4) His dream used to satisfy him, he hasn’t learned anything useful since grade school, about relationships, character, or respect. So he will *not* be changing what he knows, what his goals are, how he treats others.
5) This ‘perpetual dater’ is practicing his ‘winning bed partners’ life-skill. You will never know how many women you are exposed to second-hand. You can’t trust him, the more he has spread himself around this way the more disease exposure, and the less time and attention he has for anything that matters to you.
What NML said. You enable him to act horribly toward you, his ex, and others, if you even spend time thinking about him, let alone talk to him.
He lies. He could apologize, confess to everything – and you still would not feel any closer to closure, or understanding how he can disrespect, ignore, and hurt you so. There is nothing you need to hear from him, and nothing you could say to him that would affect him or help you.
New to this site….As I read Brads comment to Elenna it really hit home….My ex Emotionally Unavailable Man….was sleeping with me and another woman…until I finally figured it all out and I walked away….I simply wanted to throw up…He is now with her 24/7 I simply do not get it….he could not be emotionally available to me or to her and yet now it seems as ever since I walked away he is totally devoted to her…………I simply do not get it…we were together for a year and a half and then 3 months ago he got weird….and thats when I figured out he had been seeing someone on the side….How the hell can he just walk away without an ounce of guilt as to what he did to me and just go into a full blown relationship with this new woman…I wonder if he will soon get bored with her as well….I simply do not understand how EUM carry on without a thought or feeling of what they have done to another human being….I am simply shattered….
Stacey welcome
I am not sure if you have read the e-book but these men are never emotionally available to anyone…
I always though that the reason my eum would not commit to me was becuase he was still involved with his ex, then when i was closing in on him after a year and a half he brok of with me and found another replacement – when he realised things were not that cozy with her after 2 months he started to ask me for a quasi commitment i.e live together which was something i was asking for, for a long time.
However my EUM was a lot more daring and even went as far as saying to me – i will still see my ex once a week as i feel sorry for her (she is 20 years older than he i.e 59)…
What i am trying to say is that these guys are like gamblers – they hedge their bets. so do you really think he will be 24/7 to her or that he will find another women to cheat on her with? See he was carring on the charade for too long with you so it is an ingrained habit. If he was a man of any substance he would be alone for a while…
Cut your losses and run for it…dont wait for him t come back – he may come sniffing around they always do…but dont make the mistakes i made…you will end up a wreck
Hi. I searched for this article tonight to re-read. My ex-EUM sent me a couple of strange emails tonight. He and I haven’t really talked for months. I’ve definitely moved on and am just about over him.
I’m dating again, I have had several dates with two different men in the past few weeks. I am having fun. I’m in the “getting to know you” phase and taking everything very slow. I sense one might be a “Mr. Unavailable” but – already – after two dates – his allure is fading because I have a hunch about what he is about. However, I will give it the benefit of the doubt – but will not chase him either. It’s up to him. The other one seems definitely available and is very interested in getting to know me and spend time with me. He’s making a real effort. However, I am still getting to know him too. All said, I am having fun and my ex-EUM memories and nostalgia are fading extremely quickly.
Anyway – so tonight I get his emails. Quick, one sentence emails. One asking about my weekend. The other reminiscing about one of the more recent times we were together (after having broken up – the time he referenced was in April of this year).
It’s all really stupid. He’s been carrying on this way with me for over TWO and a HALF YEARS.
I deleted the emails without responding. I’m not interested in going there. Nothing good will come of it.
I laugh – some of us have EUMs that will say lots more than mine will. I was one heck of a yo-yo and fallback girl. No more.
He’s not reaching out because of me. He’s reaching out because of him. He needs an ego stroke. If it was about me – no – you know what – if it EVER was about me – we would have had a healthy relationship. The guy is just an a-clown.
Ok – so – I just wanted to vent. I have been reading this site for over two years and I feel like I am FINALLY making progress. It was such hard work. But now – it feels SO GOOD.
Good luck everyone! And wish me luck to keep the strength!
Ashley
Hi Ashley:
I can definitely relate to your experience of receiving the strange emails from your emotionally unavailable ex as I have also recently received emails from emotionally unavailable friend Lisa. And I see with clarity — just like you said — the emotionally unavailable person is not writing and getting in touch with us to truly see how we are doing, but as a means to stroke their own ego. I do congratulate you on the strength that you have shown in not responding to his overtures. I’m still not able to completely let go of my emotionally unavailable friend, but I’ve gotten to the point where I don’t feel compelled to contact her (though I had hoped for closure by talking with her, but if probably would not even register with her). As you point out, nothing good will come of it. I’ve been very happy doing things and going out with other friends, and I’ve meeting some new women. So when my emotionally unavailable friend Lisa writes to me, I just let her know that I’ve been having a great time (without her). When I needed to talk with her, she could not spare any time for me — an excuse that she was too busy — that was a big wake up call for me. And now, when she reaches out to me, I simply let her know that I’m have a great time with other women. I say just enough to keep her guessing. And I’m very close to the point where I’d prefer not to hear from her because the hurt resurfaces.
The one thing that I’ve learned, as we all have learned the hard way, is that one of the characteristics of an emotionally unavailable person is a LACK OF EMPATHY. And so now, so I don’t end up repeating the same pattern of going after an emotionally unavailable women (they do exist), one of the main qualities that I look for in a woman is EMPATHY — the ability to see and feel things from the other person’s point of view — to stand in the other person’s shoes (mine of size 13, by the way, LOL).
I wish you well, and I just want you to know that you should be very proud of yourself for recognizing the problem with EUM and moving on.
God bless!!!
Best regards,
David
Hmm emotionally unaivable people i agree have lack of empathy…
they think purely with their head and not their heart..they are manipulative and manage everything around them to suit them and their lifestyle…they lie so much that i think even they believe their lies. My eum even went so far as to say his father was in hospital, to cover his tracks why he couldn’t see me that particular night..
I felt sick having to check up on him when i called the hospital and no such patient existed..I felt this way for 2 reasons..1. for actually checking on him (bad move) and 2. finding out that someone would lie about his own father
This example is a classic case of lack of empathy
Thanks for your comments.
David – I had considered responding with a comment about how my weekend was great and that I had met a guy from home and we were dating. But, I felt like it would be a ploy to see his reaction. And I can guess what his reaction would be. It would have been he would have responded with a lot of incessant emails and pseudo flattery. Which would have made me feel things for me and hope that he might back his words up with actions. Which he wouldn’t have. Which – and this is the most important thing – would have made me feel badly and would have taken my attention away from the men that are treating me well.
Had he called me up and said “How are you doing? We haven’t spoken in a while, would you like to have lunch?” (we work together) I may have given him some time. That is how REAL friends reconnect with one another.
And to be honest, as recently as yesterday, I considered inviting him out to lunch for that very same reason (we haven’t caught up in a long time). But I decided against it because 1) I can’t be sure that it wouldn’t stir up my previous feelings for him and 2) he has never once done that to me. No – I take that back – he has – and he never came through – he invited me out to lunch, I said yes, told him when I was free and he never followed up. 3) it would have taken my focus off everything in my life that I need to focus on – the guys I am dating, my work, my real friends, everything.
He’s not a friend. He’s a frienGd by HIS definition – which – let’s face it – is NOT good enough. He doesn’t know what being a friend really is.
I agree with you about empathy. It’s very important. My ex-EUM had it for some things – but he definitely lacked it when it came to his understanding how his actions/inactions towards me were painful to me. Which makes me think that for other issues where I thought he had empathy – maybe he just was faking it.
Good luck!
I have been wanting to post my thoughts for quite some time now.I had written about my eum earlier.The last week had been really bad for me.We were supposed to meet up for lunch and due to some reason he did not turn up.This has alraedy happened so many times before.He informed me that he wouldn’t be able to come.I got really wild and texted him that i wouldn’t want to talk to him again,how upset i was and quite a few other emotional messages.At the end of it he got pissed off with me and accused me of inflicting emotional warfare on him…when he was the one who caused it all…this is a pattern again…i am always the one at fault…and he is the superman…Anyway after his angry outburst I got scared that things might be ruined forever..I called him after 2 days and told him how much i liked him,valued him and all that…He spoke to me well but again said that something within him had snapped because of my emotional outburst last time and that i had pushed him over the edge…I was really hurt…THe next day I tried to call him and talk to him and i found that he was avoiding my calls.All this after explaining everything to him.Far from getting annoyed with him,I was depressed and kept texting him about how much i liked him and all that…To which he never replied…At the end I started wondering what I was doing to my own self.Here i was putting somebody else before me,begging and pleading for no fault of mine…and waiting for his calls,messages…I was ready to do anything to be with him.I read the articles on this site all over again.Two days have passed.Haven’t contacted him though I wish that he would contact me….I don’t know what to do…feel i am losing respect for my self….
help i am weakining
i have had nc 4 a while now but he texted me at 6am this morning, not quiet awake i nearly responded. now i cant get him out of my head. our second anniversary is rapidly aproaching. i miss him. hes next door, but i have built a wall in my mind, but the text this morning was like an earthquake.
i know hes not right for me. but i love him. i want him. i need need him. but i need to stay away from him more than anything else.
he was with his girlfriend when he texted me,
he sent. (fak this is a nitemare. at 6.am)
at 10.30am i sent. (wat is a nitemare.) not for any other reason other than if i dont reply he will keep it up till he sees me and if im face to face i will cave in. at least by text i can keep my resolve of not seeing him.
bigger problem we both have to go to a funeral together. no real choice close friend of both of us.
i have refused him so many times lately but i still cant stop thinking about him.
i need back up
You need to figure out what you want. Is the texting is just to pass the time and be entertained when bored?
It doesn’t seem like it. It seems like you are attaching meaning to his sending you texts. For instance, his sending you a text when he’s with his girlfriend.
I really think that if a guy is not initiating face to face contact with you – or at minimum, minimum responding favorably to a woman’s initiation of face to face interaction – that – it’s all just a game. There is no real emotion and everyone has a wall up.
This applies to women too who engage in responding to and sending incessant text messages to a boyfriend or someone in whom they are interested.
Men who hide behind texts do not change if they don’t want to. They won’t suddenly start pursuing you honorably or taking you out on dates. They will just continue with their sub-par behavior.
So – look at him for who he really is and how he is REALLY treating you. And ask yourself honestly – how can I unconditionally love THAT?
he sent it at 6.00am. thats screwed up.
i dont text him i just reply to keep him at arms length, out of politeness i dont encourage him. i keep them short and blunt, hes not a texter.
i dont want to be rude to him he lives next door and reacting would show i care. i do care, but he doesnt need to know this. but it is over.
Dear Deb:
I just wanted to let you know that you are not alone and that I can greatly empathize with you. I find myself in a similar situation with my friend Lisa, and the last several times that she has initiated contact with me, she’ll briefly mention that she is going to one wedding or another, and it leaves me wondering who she is going to the wedding with. It hurts and sometimes I think that she is subconsciously taking out her hurts from her father (her parents divorced when she was young) and from prior relationships out on me and whoever else. Needless to say, and it is really sad, I believe that she leads an unfulfilled life. And while I have feelings for her, just like you love your EUM, I am not going to place myself in another position of hurt. We both deserve a heck of a lot better and someone who loves us for who we are. I am also cordial when I deal with my friend Lisa, even though she is not always cordial with me (and she works in public relations for a major hospital). In fact, at various times, her actions toward me are very rude and self-centered. I realize that she is someone who is hurt, probably more than I can even imagine, and that she walls herself off from others, including those who would truly love her, but that is her choice and her loss. And I’m not going to stay stuck in one place, and I’m out there meeting other women and simply enjoying life, and trying not to even think about Lisa because when I do, it tears me up inside and I start to cry because she really means something to me, and I can tell from your posting, including your last couples ones, that your EUM means a great deal to you too. One thing that this experience has taught me is to recognize alot earlier the emotional unavailability of other people and so I don’t waste my time on emotionally unavailable women. And because of all this, I defintely recognize and understand the need for the NO CONTACT RULE. Deb, have faith that you will find someone else and look at the blessings that you have in life and FOCUS on the positive.
I wish you the best and God bless.
David
thank you david
he made direct contact again, i answered questions that were put to me, politely but short and did not ask questions or show interest. i was in the middle of decorating, he offered to help, but i said no thank you, saying i was enjoying the prospect of doing it alone, saying if i did feel the need for help i would ask, then said i had to go as i didnt want to leave it incase i lost my mojo. he came and had a look and as usual stroked my ego, but i didnt react. although on the inside i was jumping for joy.
he asked if i was dating, i said i was window shopping but not in the mood for any man, (im not on the market, i want to be single) he smiled, then i said not even you, i learnt im worth more than that. then my phone rang and i signaled i would see him later and walked away. i didnt turn to look back or catch his reaction. he left.
i feel strong, but it still hurts.
Debs, so if I understand your comment, after disrespecting his girlfriend by texting you, and to be abusive too, while she was around. Then he talks to you, belittles your capacity to think and live your own life – disregarded your dismissal, trespassed into your home and invaded your space uninvited.
And what you felt was rewarded for him trespassing and gifting you with a pat on the head.
He invades your privacy, digs into your dating -and you shared with this disrespectful bundle of issues, problems, and disrespect.
You may be doing better than before, but you can start counting your days of NC from now. Because you broke NC – he didn’t force you to talk to him, he didn’t make you allow him into your house.
You need some more social outlets, more contact with responsible, respectful adults that respect you and each other. With more responsible friends and acquaintances in your life you will not need the next-door not-quite-ex to provide the assurance and approval we all need.
It seems that any response you make to an EUM, beyond a single word, “No,” is an open door to more contact, resuming bad habits, and returning to the cycle you wanted to get away from. Consider him the enemy, fear his contact like a recovering drunk fears that first drink – for about the same reasons.
Take care.
i agree with most of what you said, but from what he could see i wasnt reactin and from were i was standing i didnt feel threatened or pulled in by him, i was proud of myself for having a civil conversation with someone who normally makes me melt and is aware of it. to him i was just like any other neighbour that day polite and slightly short but not rude. to me this is more of an achievement than any other reply. at some point we all need our neighbours and friends i am just changes the boundries to suit me.
i said it was over and i mean it, i also think he got it.
seen him today brief hello nothing more, and my heart didnt break melt or yearn for him, what if is no longer the question.
i will remain friendly but never a position to resumme our previous relationship.
Hi Deb:
It appears that you are in a more unique situation than the rest of us because your emotionally unavailable person is a neighbor. Where most of us can keep our emotionally unavailable person out of sight and hence hopefully out of mind, you don’t currently have that option because he is a neighbor. Given the circumstances, I believe that you were correct in being cordial to him and it shows your good character. I was thinking that if the shoe was on the other foot, you would want to be treated cordially and as a human being by him and not simply ignored, so you did the right thing, Deb. I agree with you about setting proper boundaries. There are a couple of great books by DR. HENRY CLOUD AND DR. JOHN TOWNSEND called BOUNDARIES and BOUNDARIES IN DATING. I highly recommend both of them. I wish you well and God bless.
David
thank you david.
he and i had a heart to heart last nite.
he popped in to borrow something, while he was there i told him we needed to talk. i told him that what we had was over and i had moved on, i said that though it was good at the time i had grown out of and away from it. he said he didnt want to loose me as a friend, i said that wouldnt happen if he respected me my boundaries and my space, he said he would try but that if he was out of order, i should tell him and he wouldnt take it bad, i thanked him gave him the paint tray he asked for and walked him out. he went to hug me and i said neighbours dont do that and shook his hand, he smiled and wished me luck.
Wow. I am blown away by everyone’s empathy, stories, and hard work to free themselves of the Yo-Yo relationship situation.
My story, and I’ll keep it brief, is this:
G and I met right after my divorce six years ago. I never took any time to heal, process and reclaim myself after leaving my abusive marriage. I met G in third grade, had a crush on him then but we never actually spoke to each other until our 20 year reunion from high school. He was still cute, and we wanted to know each other better. That was six years ago; we’ve dated exclusively ever since and, honestly, I will say he is a good, responsible, loving, kind man.
It’s me who has the Boomerang problem. We’ll be going along well, and *WHAM* something in me triggers and I am compelled to end the relationship – without much warning, without incident, without reason but with a ton of pain, tears and anguish. He has never really left us when I’ve done what we now call Push-me-Pull-You, although last year he allowed himself to get good and annoyed and he dated someone once or twice from Match. When I called him on New Year’s Day (miserable without him, lonely and ashamed for putting him and myself through this nonsense again), he arrived 10 minutes later and, after conversation, we decided to rejoin again.
Recently, we tried couples therapy. It was going along pretty well, then, one session, I just felt that feeling of “this is not working and I have to end it” and did, right there in the session. He has continued with the therapist, and I’m about to start my own individual sessions with another practitioner.
We do love each other, are in our mid-40s, and despite everything I’ve done with all this break up/mending stuff, our physical relationship has never faltered – which we both find funny and frankly a blessing.
Someone along the way suggested I have PostTraumatic Stress Disorder stemming from the closeness then abuse and trauma from my marriage. I do have a grave fear of chosing another bad partner, and conversely, of losing the love of my life – and I cannot seem to get past either to a place of being able to accept happiness in the form of love from this man. We do have fun together – when I am wholly present and “here” in the relationship. We have a lot in common, and we talk about most everything, now, even what are issues in my childhood and marriage that could possibly be affecting everything else.
So, thank you for this page and all these posts. It is very saddening and a realy wake up call to read the brokenhearted stories of those who have been wronged and used by someone who keeps them around as a security blanket and not as a loved one or a sacred person in life. I know I have done a lot of damage in my relationship with G (not his real initial, by the way, lol), and have caused him so much pain, anger and frustration. Neither of us need this at all. I know I am ready and willing to learn and fix my wrongs. We both deserve to be loved, and I believe my therapy will bring me to a place where I do not want to bolt anytime I’m afraid of being in a committed partnership again. I want to stay, share the rest of my life, and be happy with this man who has put up with so much of my push and pull.
Peace and many healing blessings to you, one and all.
jennifer
i feel that if you can see and identify thee problem you are half way there. you need a time out and i think you see that too, however it is hard to take a time out without feeling as though you are disappearing.
so far my eum is respecting my boundaries and i am handling things very well. i feel much better and can honestly say we are now just friends and neighbours.
you will get there too if you really want it.
Jennifer, Aside from going to therapy and asking the therapist to guide you forward, what steps are you taking, to take ownership and responsibility for your own life and well-being?
What I mean is, surviving abuse – actually getting out of the abusive situation – may leave you with self doubts, self hate, feeling that no one that you respect should respect or love you. Objectively it is easy to tell others that that is not so, that everyone can be loved, that being abused doesn’t make you unloveable. Telling ourselves that (I am sure you know!) isn’t that easy, at least it isn’t easy telling ourselves we are worthy of respect and love, and actually believe what we hear ourselves say. Unresolved anger at the past, at yourself for enduring abuse in the past, at how your emotions and self image were manipulated – the triggers for anger and angst and hurt can remain active for a long time. And keep hurting you and those around you, too.
Sorry for the turmoil in your life.
Blessed be!
HEY DEBS….Its been a while since I have been on and you and I share the same situation…with the Ex being a neighbor…..If you remember this all errupted for me back in August..when I found out about another woman he was seeing…Long story short…Yes he is still with her….but has been trying to seek me out….which I will never go back…He is playing her just like he did me….I just resently found out that he ripped my heart out and threw me away because of money!!! Its turns out this woman he is with is in for a Huge Divorce Settlement…and he on the surface has her beleiving one thing while he does completly the opposite when he is not with her…I don’t know why I cannot get this out of my mind and move on….I guess I need to see him do the same thing to her which he is doing…I guess I just want to see this fall apart for him and for her because of all the pain that he put me through…and after they got together she knew about me and continued on with her relationship with him…I tell you I would be in a much better place right now if he did not live down the street…I am forced to see his house his truck and of course her car just about everyday.,….How do you do it…I am dating but just find it so hard to commit to someone solely…It seems as though as soon as someone gets close…I run..so how do you cope with the whole neighbot thing???
Lizzie
your gonna think im weird but having him next door, seeing him regularly and not giving in is making it easier. unlike most break ups i have had over the years, i dont wonder were he is or what he is up to, because i know.
i dont hate my eum, i feel sorry for him. he is broken, i cant fix him nor do i want to.
he did call the other evening when he was drunk, i told him to ring again at a respectable hour when he was sober. he said he wanted to set me up on a date with one of his friends, i told him i didnt need a pimp and i could get my own dates, thanked him for his concern, said goodbye, and hung up.
i am not dating, no matter how tempted i am, i am now in a great relationship with myself, i dont want to date. i am not ready.
i dont want to see my eum fall flat on his face either, nor do i want to see him hurt anyone else, i like his current girlfriend.
he was there when i needed him him, i let it run on too long, i read too much into it, but its over now. i am thankful for the good times and feel i have learnt from the bad times.
he has in a way shown me what i dont want and what i wont put up with, but has also shown me what i do want, and its not him or anyone like him, he was a fantasy.
my friends and i dont talk about him, i dont go looking for him or take interest in his activities. i still think about him but its not in an “if only” sort of way. its just the odd thing i do reminds me of him, they are happy memories. i am glad i was with him, it helped me find myself, but it also opened my eyes to the world and the whole dating game. i used to believe in fairy tales, but now i believe you make your own way. everyone has an agenda, some dont even know their own.
you will get over yours but you have to want to, it doesnt mean you will forget about him, but you will realise that the relationship was unhealthy, that it was one sided, that you werent getting what you needed for it to be fair.
lizzie i dont want to tell you what to do, but if your still hung up on him, you shouldnt be dating, to do so is asking for trouble, you are trying to find his clone, rub his nose in it, or fill the gap he has left. the gap will fill on its own in time, but you cant fill it with another guy, you need to fill it with you.
geography is nothing.
learn to look at people for what they are, not for what you want them to be. and learn about you, a realtionship with yourself is the most important one.
hope this is helpful.
Hello all:
I just wanted to let you know that I made great progress in getting over my emotionally unavailable friend Lisa. I deleted all of her emails, deleted her email address from my address book, and shredded copies of everything except for a few cards, etc., so I’m 95% finished with the stuff from the past. A pastor friend of mine had really helped me out to remind me that it was not my fault in the relationship, that my friend had withdrawn and hurt the relationship, and that I should let myself get taken in by any manipulation. Contact in the past re-opened the wounds and made things very hurtful and difficult for me, and so the NO CONTACT rule really helped. And learning to forgive her for her actions/inactions and not having any bitterness but instead compassion by realizing that she is really a hurting individual, but also recognizing that I DIDN’T BREAK HER, i DON’T HAVE ANY OBLIGATION TO FIX HER. I wish you all the best God bless.
David
David
i am pleased for you keep working at it you will get there and we are here for support if you need us
Thank you Deb. I appreciate your support and encouragement. The great thing through all of this is that I met a new friend earlier this year, who knew my old friend as they work at the same major hospital and used to live near each other, and my new friend, Tina, was there for me during my hearbreak, and I was there for her during her operation this week, and on Thursday, she asked me to the save the date in June next year to go to her daughter’s wedding and to dance with her, so who knows, and some of my friends are already telling me that it appears that I’m in love with Tina and there is a very good chance that she feels the same way, so time will tell.
God bless.
David
David
i hope your right but go with the flow dont read too much into it but dont shy away from the things that are there either. take one day a a time. enjoy every moment, if something doesnt feel right say so, dont settle for less than you are entitled to. miss right is out there, she will find you if you are open and honest.
Thanks Deb….Yes, I know what you mean about not guessing where he is or what he is up too….My ex EUM is the same now…
Debs, and BradK,
Thank you for so much support and insights into whys and wherefores.
I’ve put key thoughts down, including some of what you offered, and will bring them with me later this week to my first therapy session… it’s the intake but maybe it will help the ‘intaker.’
Thank you for the vista on self-care and the realities of how past stuff keeps on giving. Ugh, boy does it ever!
With gratitude and appreciation,
thank you.
Jennifer
im glad it helps but im no expert im only sharing my own experiences. and sometimes i dont take my own advice.
Hi. I haven’t commented on here in a while. This is one of my favorite posts of NML’s. I’m breaking a cycle of being a fallback girl with a particular EUM. Back in September, when I last commented, I was doing well with the no contact rule. Then in October, my ex-EUM lost his job. We work together and I was one of the first people that he told. Of course, I stoked his ego. Which led to some other things – but not actually spending time together.
I’ve spoken to and seen my therapist about this and she says he’s very selfish and I am accurate in feeling a little bit used from his behavior. I won’t get into the details, but I will sum it up by saying our interaction would typically end over text, email or phone with me wanting to see him and him making excuses not to. I even orchestrated something where he did come over to help my father with bringing something into my apartment. He was very respectful and charming, but he declined to go to lunch with us afterwards.
I knew then that I couldn’t kid myself and be “friends” with him.
All the while he was telling me how I am such a great friend and thanking me for helping him out (by connecting him with others in the industry) in his job search.
Anyway, he’s called me a couple times, and we’ve had nice conversations. I try to tell myself I don’t want him but – I am kidding myself.
On Thanksgiving he called me and left me a message to wish me a Happy Thanksgiving. I haven’t returned the call. I was going to call him the next day and started fantasing about spending some time with him this weekend. Then, the next day, when on Facebook (I recently accepted him as a friend, with some hesitation), I saw that on the same day that he called me (Thanksgiving) he also became friends with his ex-girlfriend from before and after he dated me. I also remembered the overtly sexual “e-card” he sent one of my best friends. I also remembered that after I accepted his friend request, he tried to befriend (electronically on facebook, without ever meeting them in person) at least two of my girlfriends (they ignored his request).
I’m typing this and thinking – how do I struggle with not calling him back after that behavior? I am sure if you are reading this you are wondering the same thing.
I guess it’s because, he is very good at pulling the wool over my eyes. He says all these things that make it SEEM like we have something. When I bring up anything that he’s done that is inappropriate or wrong he gets mad at me and says I am overthinking, or making too big a deal. Essentially he is very manipulative and he turns any issue people have with his inappropriate or selfish behavior into THEIR issue and shortcoming.
Since he never admits to anything or is honest about what he is doing – I never hear anything from him except 1) how he likes me so much or 2) how I am being over critical of him and need to relax and roll with things.
Since he is no longer with my company and has made an excuse to not come to my Christmas party next week, I will not be seeing him again at least in the near future. If I don’t call him, email him or text him – he will not see me or hear from me. It will be over.
If I do reach out – like this post says – I will be sending a signal of interest. I can see it’s up to me. I will not reach out. It’s hard. It really is.
My friend also gave me advice for if he were to call me again and if I took the call. Or if he requested to see me. I need to tell him no. And if pressed, I need to say that he is not what I want in a relationship. That I know he can’t give me what I want, and that because of that, I can’t see him or have contact with him right now.
This was helpful – just writing this out. If anyone has any words of wisdom or advice, I’d be grateful.
Thanks.
Ashley, no matter how manipulating and glib he is – you are responding to him. You find him comforting – you still wish for more time together with him, just as you did while you were dating.
Much of what he did to you (directly) was by omission – he wouldn’t call back, or answer messages, or be there when you expected or hoped he would be there. It actually doesn’t matter whether he was hooking up with others, pursuing someone else, or connecting with an ex. He wasn’t there for you. That is all that really matters.
Much of your attachment now is about remembering what was good back then. The times together were enjoyable. You are remembering that fondly, and that makes you more likely to return to the habits and ways of thinking that went before. Call it slipping back into the same old rut, or denial, or inertia (resistance to change), but you are vulnerable, just like all of us, to wanting the brightest and happiest in our lives.
You remember the frustration of him not being there, but it doesn’t seem as strong a barrier as the attraction of wanting him to be with you. After all, his not calling or being there might end. At any moment the phone might ring, or he might knock on the door, or he might answer a text. Since you aren’t living with him, you spend many more of your waking moments *not* being with him, than being together. Which makes the “Golly, I wish he were here” and “I wish he would call” thoughts seem common and ordinary – a *bad habit*. And you have to remind yourself, again, that the issue isn’t that he didn’t call, this time, the problem is that he isn’t there for you.
Which is why No Contact is such an effective way to give yourself time and emotional distance to find a healthy perspective about yourself and your relationships. In a healthy relationship there must be a balance between closeness with him and respecting your space and his. You have to have respect and trust about the time he is with you as well as the time he is away.
I see a conflict. You can be a good and conscientious co-worker, neighbor, and even friend. Except relationships between the sexes are based on sex. Relationships can vary from enmity or distrusted stranger, to neighbor, friend, lover, or family. Some people can move a relationship back, from lover to friend or neighbor, when things fall apart. But it takes two responsible people to accomplish the dis-engagement. As Harrison Ford told Anne Heche in “Six Days, Seven Nights” – “You want to know how a woman turns a guy on? She shows up. That’s it. We’re guys, we’re easy.” Every contact we have with someone is a reward and an encouragement.
Your guy is confused about what he is doing, is not taking responsibility for his actions, and doesn’t realize how many people his behavior is hurting. He cannot keep an appropriate amount of emotional (and sexual) distance in his relationship with you. That won’t change.
Meanwhile, the repeated contacts with him and the reminders of his social activity and his contacts keep refreshing hopes and dreams for both of you. You haven’t completed your journey, yet, toward a healthy you that won’t accept the BS that is his life.
And, too, Thanksgiving signals the beginning of the Silly Season. The daylight hours diminish (see your pharmacist about light bulbs that reduce the depression of short days), and the “family” holidays make all of us with fewer than 8 kids around feeling left out. Our hopes and fears become just a bit less rational, our tendency toward depression just a bit more pronounced. We look toward recent relationships and wish to rebuild the good times. And there are no really good answers. Because now, when we want family and emotional refuge and comfort, is the time we most benefit from paying close attention to the character, the honesty, and honor of those around us.
Instead of waiting to feel better about what has gone before, getting involved with community and religious activities may be a useful way to learn about yourself and your community. A healthy satisfaction for helping others does wonderful things for the self-esteem. Strengthening ties to trusted friends and befriending acquaintances can enrich the days.
Blessed be!
Hi Ashley:
I can understand and I know that it is a struggle when we hear from our emotionally unavailable person, and like yourself, I’m breaking the vicious cycle and not allowing myself to be used as the “fall back.” It took me a long time, and I finally deleted 99% of everything from my emotionally unavailable friend Lisa — emails, email address, voice mails, etc. And like a bad penny, she contacted me a week later because apparently too much time had passed and she wasn’t getting her ego fix from me. But when she wrote, it was really all about her. One of my closest friends read her email and said the email was all about Lisa and didn’t really express a genuine interest in me other than an ego fix. In other words, with an emotionally unavailable person, it is all about them. It’s not a two-way street, but a one-way street with them and that it not healthy at all. I responded to Lisa but kept it very brief only because she shared that her grandmother was dying so I was respectful and cordial and offered my sympathy but other than that I told her “I’ve been very busy lately” in response to her asking “how are you?” so as to not encourage further dialogue. When she contacted me, I did get mad but I don’t dwell on it because it’s not good for or healthy. I just let the feelings go so as to not to be stuck on Lisa. But I now recognize that this feeling of being “mad” when Lisa contacts me now is actually a warning sign that she violated my healthy boundaries in the past and to not go there again. I hope that this makes sense because our feelings can actually help us if we start to truly understand them. Our feelings are warning signs to us.
As as Brad mentions, spending time with trusted friends and developing friendships with other acquaitances not only enriches our lives, but helps us to distance ourselves from the emotionally unavailable people. My closest friend Tina, who is also getting over a heart-break, helped me to recognize that if someone really likes you and truly cares for you — it will be a two-way street and you will feel good emotions — you will feel loved For example, for my birthday last week, she gave me two very sentimental gifts — including a beautiful blanket that she made for me, and she initiate calls, emails, suggestions to do things, etc. And while it’s just a very close friendship at the moment with Tina, it’s illustrative of a healthy relationship. And because of a solid support system, and in particular the love and support of my closest friend Tina, it helped me to break free of the vicious cycle with Lisa. We all need attachments in life — we are social creatures at our core — we need to develop the healthy attachments and not stay stuck on unhealthy attachments to emotionally unavailable people. I hope that this helps a little. God bless.
Ashley
i know exactly how you feel. i to have made the choice not to see my eum, i actually do believe its what i want and that it is the correct choice. however sometimes when i am sitting alone, like now, i yearn for him, then i argue with myself that to go back to that would be idiotic.
unfortunately for me my eum never lied to me, so i feel that the mistakes made were mine not his, and worse still i dont regret any of it. would i do it again? No.
i too have fantasies, but i now except then for what they are just fantasies, dreams, i know they colud never come true, and also believe that if they did come true i would run a mile, i dont want a relationship, i think thats what attracted me to him in the first place, he was safe because he was unatainable.
he called me on saturday night, and invited me out, i declined, he said no strings just friends, that he missed my sinse of humour and my smile. i sent him a picture and a joke, saying that should keep him going for a while, but that i was busy and wasnt coming out. i did want to go, but choose what i hoped was the smarter path.
i miss him because i like the way i feel when i am with him but when i am not with him i am miserable. he reminds me of me so i am spending time with me. the real me.
Hi Deb:
What you said struck a chord with me. I can understand that you do not want a relationship at this time, and that is perfectly fine — you have to do what is right for you. But from what you have said about your dreams, etc., it seems that deep down, you do want a relationship, but your fear is greater than your desire and it is your fear that is holding you back. And I can understand and please know that I am not judging you because I have been there myself. And I may be wrong, but it appears that it is also this fear that keeps us stuck on our emotionally unavailable person. In other words, we stay in our comfort zone because of fear instead of stepping out in faith and trying something new. And when this happens, we don’t need a new relationship at the moment, we need to get ourselves healthy — and this means building back a strong and healthy support network with our family and friends, and when this happens, we won’t feel so lonely and then when we are ready, we pick healthier people because we are in a healthier position ourselves. And by allowing ourselves to ultimate find good, healthy attachments, we let go of the bad ones. In other words, we can’t just try to ignore a bad habit and leave a void, we need to replace the bad habit with a good habit. God bless you and I wish you all the best, Deb.
david
i think you just put into words what i was trying to say, and to add something, i always felt with him that i couldnt hurt him because he didnt really care, and he was like that bar of chocolate that us non chocolate eaters want, we only take out it of the cupboard when we have pmt and need a fix, just sometimes though the chocolate is not as satisfying as we would like, now i sound like forest gump.
Debi, thanks for making me chuckle but I do know exactly what you mean!
David – Lisa is a parasite who on that occasion you ended up rewarding with undeserved attention although I understand your concern about the grandmother. The trouble is, I doubt Lisa even registers your thoughtfulness or concern in referencing this and in actual fact, it is a ploy to elicit response – It’s a bit of passive aggressive behaviour by email that shames you into contacting her. Personally, I highly recommend you cut 100% contact and let Lisa go and take a run and jump. You would be surprised what these people do with 1% because contact is contact.
People like these cross lines and the key is to stop making their problems your problems and to eradicate them from your lives. Then the door is totally closed and your boundaries remain intact.
Ashley – It’s funny because today’s post is very relevant to your situation and what you need to accept is that whilst your guy is a manipulative user, you keep placing expectations and potentials on a relationship and connection that doesn’t exist between you both. Until you fully accept that you are the maintainer of the connection, he has a way in. Like David, your exes problems are his own, not yours. You owe him nothing other than a proverbial kick in the teeth by cutting the contact. Stop hoping, stop fantasising, stop chasing, and accept that this is what it is and that you should wash your hands of him. x
nml
my eum says its my sense of humour that he enjoys and that is why he keeps coming back. he has always been polite and complimented me, treated me well but said it was only for fun. i however have not been so nice, on one occasion i put a bag over his head (even though he is gorgeous) and told him i didn’t want to look at him, hen he got upset by it, i retorted, well im not that cruel i didnt tie it. i also told him i didnt want to know anything about him because i new i would become attached and i new he wasnt in it for the long hawl. i did fall in love but i do think it was more with the idea.
david lisa is a parasite she gives you nothing in return.you are not causing her cruelity she is a spoilt brat and has seen a way to get what she can from you stop giving and start living.
@ David, Your comment said “One of my closest friends read her email ..”
Please be careful about gossip. We need friends to confide in, but we also need to avoid gossip. Talking about others’s faults, or even blessings, is a bad habit. We often inadvertently injure those we talk to, those we talk about, and ourselves. In addition, our words often affect others, and can influence and hurt still more people. One of the things I like about Baggage Reclaim, is how we leave names out, even fictitious names, of those that contend with our own issues. This anonymity focuses on the issue, lets others relate to the kinds of things “that bozo” did.
It is easy to stray from “so-and-so sent this awful message” to “What do you think of this email from X?” The second starts getting into asking for validation – you want someone else to also blame X for a mistake or bad behavior. This is something you do with a paid counselor – although the emphasis should be on what you choose and do, rather than what someone else did. Getting into the details of the other people involved is always going to be incomplete and often erroneous – and distracts us from learning about ourselves, and choosing wisely for ourselves.
Engaging in gossip about X will refresh or restart emotional attachment. Stick to “this happened to me” with friends, stick to how you feel, and keep the details to a minimum. Or your friends will think you want to keep the topic alive, and show their interest toward you by reminding you of X and the nitty details. Gossip is *not* harmless entertainment, healthy, nor is it growth opportunity.
@Debs,
I think we all really want to be with good people. The tough part is finding people that really are good to be with – and avoiding those that aren’t good for us.
You did notice, didn’t you, that when you told him “no” you said, “maybe later”? When you sent him the picture and joke, and told him that should do “for awhile”, you are telling him there will be more later. Simple words, like, “No.” don’t imply there is an ongoing relationship. Even “I’m busy” with an Ex says that he might be convenient later when you aren’t busy.
This might sound picky, but dealing with an ex takes a lot of thought. You are protecting your health and happiness. A bit of defensiveness is appropriate, including using clear signals and language that doesn’t imply a relationship.
Think of others – a friend, a neighbor – that you can share an evening with, or a movie or a quick meal or shopping trip. You don’t have to wait for a date to talk to someone, or to share an outing.
Luck!
NML:
You are absolutely correct about the passive aggressive behavior. Last year at Christmastime, she sent me a card with the “your old friend” line and her telephone number to elicit my sympathies and having me think that it was my fault for losing touch with her. Your point about passive aggressive behavior is insightful, as I had not thought of it like that before, and I’m definitely going to look into that subject matter more so that I can better understand it so I don’t repeat things with either Lisa or anyone else. I also see what you mean by the 1% contact because it registers with the EU person that everything is ok when it is in fact not ok. With regard to your parasite comment, I’m not sure that I can be that harsh with Lisa but you may be right. She does, at least, appear to have some parasitic behavior. When she gets her ego fix, she leaves — maybe more like a vampire. LOL. I believe that many EU persons appear to either be narcissists or have narcissistic traits — everything is about them and how you affect their world. It’s not a two-way street and the only thing that ever registers with them is cutting-off all contact. It is very paintful for me because a long time ago, Lisa did help me through a couple traumatic events in my life, and several times, she was the one I thought of when I was going to the ER and thought I might die, so she did mean a lot to me — the most to me — but subsequent behavior, disappearing and coming back as my “long lost friend” several times is unhealthy. While I do not judge her for anyone else’s actions, her father has been married three times and had multiple affairs, and he even resigned from his high profile position because of allegations of sexual harassment. So that is a bad dynamic that she grew up with and is a warning sign. In fact, a close family friend who worked with him told me to stay away from the family. And earlier this year, and I’ve known Lisa for 11 years, I learned that her son’s father is not her ex-husband (who apparently had cheated on her first but she returned the favor), and one cannot trust a cheater. Lisa was not even a faithful friend. And NML, you are absolutely correct about proper boundaries. There are a great set of books by DR. HENRY CLOUD and DR. JOHN TOWNSEND called BOUNDARIES, BOUNDARIES IN DATING, and SAFE PEOPLE. I highly recommend their books as their books have helped me alot. There are also alot of free advice on their website at http://www.cloudtownsend.com. Thank you NML and God bless
Hi Brad:
Thank you very much for your very helpful advice. I will use it as a guideline in the future. And I see how the use of even a first name can keep the attachment going, so in the future, I’ll just reference my EU friend. Thanks again and God bless. Brad, I often look forward to your posts as I have found them very insightful. And I see what you mean about addressing the issue so that way we avoid the continued attachment to the person.
Deb:
You are probably right about you not being able to hurt your EUM. Because an EUM has narcissistic traits, if not a narcissist, the EUM is not in touch with his own feelings and thus no one can really hurt him. And the EUM is really incapable of love because he doesn’t love himself. The EUM does not internalize things, and thus needs external responses to guide their world. It is actually a very pathetic existence, but WE DIDN’T BREAK THEM, WE DON’T HAVE THE RESPONSIBILITY TO FIX THEM.
Deb, you are right about my EU friend appearing to be a spoiled brat because her behavior and comments often reflect that type of behavior, and it is a parasitic one-way street with her. When I really needed to talk with her to straighten out a misunderstanding of her mixed signals, she was “too busy” — unavailable to me. And so now, I’m going to be unavailable to her. People do reap what they sow. I was tempted to send a sympathy card to her because I saw in the paper today that her grandmother died, but that would only prolong things and at some point, we simply have to make the cut with the person and go by the NO CONTACT rule.
brad
i see your point i spend time with my kids and thats who i turned him down for and i let him no it. i dont think my eum is smart enough to read deeply enough into what i say to conclude that i left an opening, and i will not be showing up, but i am not going to be rude or blunt if i do not need to be, i still hang out in the same crowd as him, and i no that is just his way of remaining friends, we will not fall out but we will never be more than friends again. i have made that clear and i know he will not push me.
David
i would send the sympathy card and then end things. that way it doesn’t look malicious. death is something we can not control.
see i know i am a softy, but i would make it my last contact and go out on a high note.
i like to keep my own concience clean.
Hi everyone – thank you all for your replies. It’s great that people were so willing to chime in and offer advice. Everything you say is true.
I haven’t responded to his call and I won’t. That doesn’t mean that it isn’t a struggle though.
However, last night, I stayed in, had bath, a glass of wine and relaxed. I had a great night’s sleep and I woke up feeling much more relaxed and much less anxious about his call to me on Thanksgiving. I went for an hour’s swim this morning and have been thinking about your words of wisdom.
NML is right. I have been continuing the cycle of contact. He is provocative but he’s not pro-active. He provokes so the other chases and makes contact. In any event, I am done.
Today’s post is spot on with what I am going through. He hasn’t changed. I’ve seen a lot of evidence in the past week of that fact. If I were to reach out to him in hopes that now he is sincere in wanting a relationship with me – that would be like – walking across the street when there is a big red hand light on, and oncoming traffic. All evidence and actions say he is the same guy and I would be setting myself up for a fall.
Further, even if he was sincere (which he is not) – who cares? He had his chance. People don’t change that much. His being sincere today would slip. Old patterns would re-emerge and I’d be hurt once again.
For the rest of the weekend I am spending time with family and getting ready for my holiday party this coming Friday. He won’t be in attendance – YES! My holidays will be free of him – and the rest of my life.
Thanks again everyone!
David, I recommend that you read my posts on passive aggressive behaviour https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/passive-aggression-in-relationships-part-1/
David, do not send a sympathy card, where would you send it to?
To her? Unless you knew Grandma and can send the card to her house, the family house you shouldn’t do it.
You are right, everything revolves around them, what they want and need, when they want and need it. They have narcissistic traits, unless diagnosed can’t really call them a narcissist, but I think they are. You can’t hurt a narcissist, there is no empathy, but they do “feel” when their ego gets hurt or they run out of ego strokes. Any type of contact gives them an ego stroke (what a pathetic way to live!) and once you cut the contact, silence is what they understand loud and clear.
No contact is so important because these people will try and come back when they need something, going thru a dry spell. It is all about attention – again what a pathetic way to live.
When I first posted a reader told me about narcissist, back then I didn’t understand, now I do and keep in mind when they return is it all about them and not because they are sincere now. May I ask how old Lisa is?
Ashley, may I ask how old the guy is?
I know age doesn’t make a difference but I somehow feel that they get worse with age.
Debs, Brad is right, a clear “no” would be better.
NML, thank you for letting me know about the posts regarding passive aggressive behavior. I have already read them.
Deb, I’m going to send the sympathy card. It is the right thing to do at the moment, and I’ll feel better. And I’ll send it to her home. Astelle, I understand your points and especially about empathy. Empathy is now one of the things that I look for in a person, so I don’t repeat the same thing again with a different person that I did with my EU friend.
The age of my EU friend is 41.
David, why do you feel you have to send the sympathy card?
Are you sending the card to Lisa??
Have you ever met her grandmother?
Astelle – my ex EUM is 45. He’s a very very immature and selfish 45.
Ashley, I find this interesting that “most” of these guys are in their 40’s or even 50’s, that makes me believe somehow that age plays a huge factor with these guys and women of course.
Funny thing happened to me today, I got an e-mail from a guy (48 years old) today, we went on a date in June 2007 – 2007!! and he cancelled the 2nd date because of a headache.
I haven’t heard from him since he cancelled the 2nd date and I did not make contact with him either, thank goodness I didn’t.
So, what the he*** is he contacting me for 17 months later???
I can’t really say if he is an EUM, just met him once
my guy is 28 im 41
death and sympathy is repect. maybe its an irish thing but its different you give it to a foe
Oh Debs, he is 28? is your story posted somewhere here?
I hate to comment without knowing your story, because I feel that a 28 year old guy and and a 41 year old woman doesn’t sound to me that he is an EUM. I really don’t want to hurt your feelings, but can you give me a quick re-cap on your story.
I understand that death and sympathy is respect. But you said it is different if you give it to a foe, that is why adviced David to send it to the Grand ma’s house and not to Miss Attention seeker Lisa.
Debs, he was “watching” you since YOU were 15? How old was HE at that time??
I was reading your post from Sept 12th, OMG, what made you to get involved with him at your age?? You expect more from him than he is able to give you, I don’t believe he is an EUM, you are his neighbor to get together with and have some fun, who doesn’t like to have fun?
He is too young and I believe he never had serious attention with you and you should have let him be with people his own age.
You read way too much into it.
You were something to do for him, please date men your own age that are more compatible with you.
YEAH, Demi Moore and Ashton Kutscher, I can see that somehow, but it is not the norm.
I can remember when I was in my 20’s, people in their 40’s seemed “old” to me. 🙂
I don’t want to be mean, but please consider his age!
@ Astelle, Freud would likely say this is a parent-child kind of relationship. Yet there is another dynamic here.
Most guys in their 40’s that are dating – have been dating awhile. Aside from a few widowers, most have been through (or caused) some bad relationships. They carry idiosyncratic defenses and scars, likely imperfect understanding of themselves and the responsibilities and aptitudes of a healthy relationship. There are likely lots of exceptions, but most won’t be dating.
The younger partner may be naive or not, inexperienced or not. But they often have fewer battle scars. And those interested in dating an older partner often have fewer delusions about physical attractiveness.
Cross-generation dating, like other cross-culture relationships such as interracial dating, pose challenges to a couple. But the individuals facing those difficulties will do a lot more searching for their own answers and a lot less assuming than those that stay within their own culture or community – or age group.
And I have seen a few older-woman, younger-man couples work out excellently. It can happen.
@ Debs, Whether or not your guy is emotionally unavailable – did you read what you wrote? “he .. said it was only for fun.” *sigh*
You either have respect for him and for yourself, and you believe the words he says, or you consider his words to be lies – and have no respect for him at all. If you don’t respect him and consider him a liar and stay with him, you aren’t respecting yourself.
So the big issue is – are you only “in it” for fun? If you want something more, the security and intimacy of a long term relationship, or the exchanged responsibilities and richness of a mate, then you have to choose a mate-prospect. You have to wish this guy all the best, and let him go. Do your grieving and healing. Then, choose a partner with an interest and qualities you need in a mate.
I find the incident with the bag over his head particularly disturbing. It is like you are passively-aggressively trying to be ugly to him so he gets scared or angry and leaves. If you are done with the relationship – tell him you are done, and leave. Take control of your life, and follow your heart and your head.
sorry guys i was talking about 2 guys one my eum and two a guy who asked me out who i knew was going to be an eum so i backed of. i have never actually posted my whole storey but here goes.
i met my eum 3.5 years ago. he is mature for his age, i on the other had may never grow up.
i dont look or act my age, no one that meets me believes my age, most of my friends are aged between 20 and 30. i dont try to look young i have always been like this.
when i met him we became friends instantly, we stayed friends for about 18 months, then one night out of the blue we kissed, i did protest using the age thing as an excuse. but he said it made no difference, my friends both the younger and the older ones agreed.
if you saw us together you would think he was older.
i had just com out of a long relationship, so had he, we spent time together chatting, we have so much in common and are very alike, we gel of each other. as i mentioned before, he never lied to me and i was honest with him, i can tell him anything.
he is a womaniser and freely admits it, i new it and never believed he would change, but my feelings for him grew. he is very charming.
for a long time his friends and mine tried to get us together, we both fought it, but we always ended up together, we keep the same company, and we have a mutual desrepect and respect for each other.
we would have seen each other everyday even if it was just to discuss the weather or the lack of it.
or relationship was just fun he cried on my shoulder i cried on his, we listen to music together, we watch tv together, we bbq together, but i felt my self wanting more, i new that if i got what i wanted i would some how spoil it, i also new that he wasnt ready to give himself to someone fully, i also new that i woudnt except anything less.
i got more from my relationship with him than i ever did from anyone else, because it was so honest, but i only got what he wanted to give when he wanted to give it, and it was never enough, though sometimes it was too much.
he did all the things i ever wanted and i was blown away by it.
is any of this helping do you want more
on another note his family think we are well suited and so do mine. if we go to parties and we are not together people always ask why.
if i am not out he checks to see if i am okay, if iam out even if its not with him he checks that i am okay.
i know you guys think age is a big deal in this, lots of our friends are the same age, and several of them have asked me out, i have always said no, so im not just looking for a toy boy. im not looking for anyone. but with him i am like a moth to a flame and vice versa.
he has dated women older than me and i dont really date, tell the truth i cant be bothered with the game playing.
he and i dont play games.
his father refers to me as his other half. i dont want to justify this because age aside the relationship just cant happen he is an eum and will not change, and i dont want him to.
ok gonna put myself up for a good bashing here.
last night the electricity in our area had a fault, everyones power went off except mine for some weird reason. my best friend who lives next door came in to boil a kettle and use the phone. an hour later my eum called in for some company rather than sitting on his own in the dark. he was going to a party, which he invited me to and i declined saying we had a movie night planned, which we did.
he went to his party and when it was all over he arrived back to mine, saying he thought the power would have been back on, which it wasnt.
i let him stay over.
nothing happened, he did try, and i said no, if you want to be my friend then be a friend, if you want anything else then you should leave. he said sorry and then went to sleep after telling me all about the party. (remember with no power i was the only one in the street with heating, and last night was very cold).
this morning, he woke up we had coffee, he thanked me very much, he then got ready for work and left, he called me a star.
i did feel exilerated by the fact that i was strong and stayed within my own boundries, and even better i felt no regret at turning him down.
he has just sent me a beautifull text thanking me for being there for him and saying that he would have understood if i hadnt have been. i do not feel used or abused in anyway. and the fact that he thanked me for doing something i would do for any friend makes me feel good about myself. also the fact that when i said no he did not make me repeat myself the way he would have before, and he didnt try to charm me, i saw respect on his face.
i think we have turned the corner.
your comments please.
Hi Deb:
If I remember correctly, I believe that your situation with your EU person is different from the usual because you are also neighbors with him and so some contact with your EU person may be inevitable. On one hand, it does seem like you are making some progress and if that is truly the case, you are to be commended. However, it does seem in a sense that you may be playing with fire — hoping for him to change. I did the same thing with my EU friend. When I got back into contact with her after Christmas last year, we talked about the problems that we had before — communication and lack of respect, etc. I thought that things were better for a while and — guess what — the same thing happened again. Fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me. Please know that I am not here to judge. You have to do what is right for you. I am just trying to point out a possible pitfall. I am concerned about your reference to “we have turned the corner.” I hope that everything works out for you. I am concerned that you may be re-playing the same vicious circle over again — kind of like the movie “Groundhogs Day” — just with a slightly different twist. It is good to hear that you kept your boundaries. I do get a sense that there is some ego gratification on your part from his continued interest in you. I realized the same thing with my EU friend. Something inside of me felt very good when she contacted me, etc., even though other parts were not so good. Just be careful, Deb. God bless!
David
Debs, you are trying to do something really tough.
You did notice, didn’t you, how much time and thought you have spent on this series of contacts? Socially things appeared to go well – yet you are getting “thank you’s” and accepting them, out of all your neighbors, he got to spend the night close enough to express an interest in intimacy. He thought of you as a fallback place to crash ..
Healing-wise, distraction-wise, and being available and open to a rewarding experience with a healthy partner wise, I suspect this incident has to qualify as back-sliding. This was not a big problem, but still a reason for a bit of concern. I mean, he did get close enough you had to tell him to back off. Letting him get that close is troubling.
by turning the corner i meant he now gets it we are just friends.
i would let any of my friends stay over under those circumstances and did offer my other neighbour the same but she has a family and just borrowed some heaters and lamps in stead.
if either of them or anyone else had of tried to take advantage i would have shown them the door.
i believe in karma and i am a kind person.
I would too help a neighbor, just not the one that I was sleeping with.
Hi everyone. Debs, I’ve been thinking about your comments and the time you just spent with your ex EUM. I think you are playing with fire. It struck me that you said you felt “exhilarated” that you could handle the situation and were able to turn him down and remind him that you are only friends. To me, the true mark of being emotionally “over” someone, especially someone with whom you didn’t have the best relationship is – indifference.
Usually, by the time I reach the “indifference” level with an ecx – “being friends” isn’t appealing to me. I think – “he’s an ex – there is no reason for him to be in my life” and I am comfortable or plainly indifferent to having him in or out.
So, what I’m trying to say is if your ex had stayed at your place and you had felt that it was a “ho hum” event, I’d be more inclined to think you were in a safe place. But since you felt a high – it makes me worried that there could be another low ahead concerning your feelings for this person. That’s just my opinion.
My ex-EUM called me at work this week. I didn’t recognize the number so I picked up. He was acting all charming – luckily I had a meeting in five minutes so I was only able to chat a couple minutes and then cut it short.
Unfortunately for me, it’s still a struggle to walk away from him and not chase. I had my Christmas party last night. It was a fun time. He did not come – I knew he wasn’t coming. There was no one there in whom I was romantically interested. It was a really nice night with friends. But I felt like something was missing. I wish that wasn’t so – but I am used to desiring someone or doing a little chasing.
This morning I slept in and have wrestled with the idea of making contact – and I have NOT. I came to this site instead.
Brad said something very perceptive. Whatever he does with others is not really the issue for me. For me – it’s the fact that he’s not there for me when it counts. He makes teasing little contacts but when push comes to shove and I REQUEST contact – he never comes through. Also very telling is he is NOT requesting to see me. It’s as if just his calling and talking to me is the contact he or his ego needs. Seeing me isn’t the objective.
And – I have been thinking – “Well maybe if I suggest seeing him one more time – maybe THIS time he will meet me and maybe this time we’ll establish the relationship we’ve never had but I’ve always desired”
And that is just FANTASY. First of all – he knows how to ask for that – and he’s not. He also knows that’s what I want – a relationship (if not from him from a man in general). And finally, after nearly three years of this type of banter – it’s time to just end it.
So – I will continue my weekend – NO contact. Spend time with true friends and connect with my community.
I’d appreciate any words of wisdom or strength or support – it’s really helpful. I’m thinking if I can get through December and January with no contact at ALL – I’ll be in the clear and done with my feelings for him soon enough. And maybe even feel indifference.
Ashley, Sorry this weekend, and the days ahead, loom so hugely before you. If all else fails to distract you, try something new – visit the hospital, or old folks home. Maybe try a new recipe – after inviting a friend over, so you concentrate on pleasing and amazing your friend, instead of someone that might have been there another time, but we won’t got there right now.. There are parks to walk through, there are libraries to lose yourself for 20 minutes or a couple hours.
You might even try something really outre – write a letter to your family or friends. It is amazing how close you can connect with someone, through the written word. And a hand written letter can be amazingly personal.
Joy to you and yours!
i woke yesterday morning and just realised this weekend just past was the second anniversary of our first night together meaning that wednesday night was the calender date, i didnt catch that till it was pointed out by a friend. they think he new this (he is good with dates) and that he tried to play me. it has wiped the smile of my face. i dont like being played.
Debs,
What he does, why he does it – these are all in the past. For today, take him each hour by the hour. Don’t remember what he did, don’t worry about why, don’t react beyond the immediate.
That is, keep your shields up, don’t let him close, and don’t be any more inviting to him than coldly polite. Just pretend this is a guy that will take advantage of you if you let him – he isn’t a stranger, he is someone that has done you over in the past. He doesn’t deserve the benefit of the doubt, ever. You don’t have a reason to doubt him. A stranger might be a friend you haven’t met – this is a guy with a record, a user, someone that is harmful for you to contact, or to listen to. Consider him “Pollen” and that you have developed an allergy to him.
Golly, I hope you aren’t one of those people that think sneezing clears the mind or something.. I never did understand about snuff. Just avoid him, and you can let all the pondering and angst fade away.
If you are talking about him with your friends, that gets to be gossip (one of the true social evils), and keeps the emotions about him all roiled up. Just a thought!
Hi everyone. I made it through the weekend – no contact! One observation I made while I was holding back from making contact was I was trying to answer the question “why do I want to make contact with someone who always lets me down?” There were a few times I fought off the urge to make contact – and they were always when I was having fun and had something exciting to talk about. I was feeling good and wanted to reach out to him – and this is my thought – in hopes that my positive energy would make him react positively to me and make him want me the way that I always wanted him to want me. Or – the other thought was – I was looking for someone to reaffirm in me feelings of self worth. Which is a self defeating behavior because I wanted to seek them from someone who doesn’t consistently reaffirm my feelings of self worth and does quite the office. So I have the urge to chase after something unattainable and damaging to my self esteem.
So, I just processed these thoughts and didn’t make contact. And went about my weekend – which was luckily very fun – filled with contact with good people, friends and some worthwhile and healthy endeavors.
I’m really seeing clearly that I need to work on feeling good about myself and not look to others to provide that feeling of self worth. I can’t get it from others. And especially not a guy that is emotionally and physically unavailable to me. As long as I do that – or continue to want to do that – maybe it does mean that I don’t have high self esteem. Why would someone with high self esteem look for reassurance from someone that doesn’t give it to them on a consistent basis?
Just my thoughts for the day – this site has been a life saver in recent weeks. Have a good one.
I meant to say “self worth and does quite the opposite” (not “office”) Freudian slip there I think!
Ashley – you could also have wanted to share joy that you find, with someone you cherish. Someone that you consider part of your life.
What you might consider doing is to record these moments. Many people use Twitter for this, but some of the historical methods are more meaningful – and less likely to be abused. Write the moment into your journal. Capture the moment in a photo. At the end of the day, write the joy into a letter to a loved one. Just think how you treasured the last hand written letter you received. With practice, you, too, can create a legacy or at least touch someone.
The point is continue looking for and enjoying happy and rewarding moments. The trick is to substitute a reaction that helps you grow in spirit as you express each glimpse of glory for yourself and others.
Enjoy the day!
i agree with brad he has a record and is a user, and he used me to get to me.
ashley it is hard not to share your joy with someone you care about, to see them smile.
Ashley I can understand that feeling. It is so hard just having someone who is a main character in your life essentialy killed off. It has been now 8 days of No contct for me. He has tried to contact me several times but I have now blocked all of him numbers and emails. It is easier for me that way so that I don’t have to resist answering because he can’t call me. This does not prevent me from missing him though. . .the other night I went to this bar that I knew he would love. It was so his style and I wanted to call him and tell him about it and how we should go there. . .And at work today I had my best sales day ever. It was so something i would have been so excited to share with him. He is so ambitious and our careers were always a point of discussion. Obviously I can’t call him or tell him about it. It made me focus on the fact that it is really over and he is not going to be part of my life anymore. Last night he tried to call me from his secretary’s cell phone. . .I did not answer the call. I had this feeling of relief though, which scared me. I was glad he was still trying to get in touch with me. . .that he was trying harder knowing I had cut him off. I mean this has all happened many times before but I still thrive on the validation that he is trying to get me back. I can’t quite get to that point. . .the point where I don’t care if he is trying to get me back or not. . .the place where I don’t care what the hell he does. . .I know it had only been a week but it has been 2 years of inconsistant behavior, broken promises and BS.
Thanks Stephanie. I’ve now made it 10 days and two weekends of no contact. Within those 10 days I did look at his facebook page a few times, but I haven’t looked in at least 4 days and I am really trying not to. Because that is a form of contact – I am keeping tabs on what he is doing or who he friends with/talking to, etc….
Actually accepting him on Facebook was a good thing because it has illustrated in plain view what a sleaze bag he is. Before, I really didn’t know the extent of it (and I am sure I still don’t). I would always make excuses and had extremely rosey tinted glasses about his true character.
Also what has helped is that I am being very social, going to lots of holiday parties and seeing friends. I am meeting new people and trying to keep everything breezy and fun right now. It’s actually attracting a lot of positive energy and people into my life.
Finally, I met a new guy, but it was really just a fun night. However, I didn’t do anything I wasn’t comfortable about. I had a good night and he respected the boundaries I set and I told him in advance what they were. He seems like a good guy and it was exactly what I needed to erase or severely fade the memories I was hanging onto with my ex-EUM. I’m pretty positive there is not a future with the guy I met the other day – you just sort of sense these things. However, I had fun and it really helped me shut the door on the ex-EUM.
Now, I just need to keep it up, maintain the no contact. And, live my life in a positive manner. I just have to keep the faith that if I act open and available, at some point I am going to interact and attract another open and available person and a healthy relationship will be possible.
Ashley, accepting him on facebook was a good thing? How? Why?
I agree. Remove him from your friend list.
Stephanie, you said “It is so hard just having someone who is a main character in your life essentially killed off. ” Instead, try to think of it as, “It is so hard just walking away from a main character in your life.” The difference? You chose to take control of your life. You made the choice. You stopped depending on Bozo to define your feelings, and your days. Instead of some monster fate stepping in and unexpectedly ending his involvement in your life – you made the choice. You are ending the hurt he has been causing to you.
Luck!
Ashley, I would re-start your NC clock every time you check on him. Visiting his Facebook page is re-opening wounds, you are still using him in your life. And accepting him on your Facebook page – that is morbid, more like gossip. You need him out of your life, reminders of what he is up to do *not* make you a better person, they don’t help you forget, and they don’t help you learn about why you chose someone dysfunctional and disrespectful in your life.
Work constantly to keep the relationship garden weeded clean. Encourage the gorgeous blossoms. Forget about the blooming idiots.
what a weekend he made contact every few hours over trivial things, texts phone calls and actually coming to the door. i answered the texts politely but coldly, everything else i ignored. i even stood at the window where he couldn’t see me and watched him knocking my door, i didnt answer though.
i found the whole thing very difficult, because my mind began to race and run away with me.
i just feel so confused. what does he really want.
I hear everyone in what they are saying about Facebook and agree that viewing his profile counts as contact. So – ok – I’ve done 5 days of “no contact”.
Accepting was a good thing because it allowed me to finally force myself to see him for who he really is. Before I’d listen to his excuses and flattery and would believe it. Now I get to see who he’s friends with, a friends told me about the message he sent to her and, there is just no way for me to live in denial anymore.
In any event, he and I did not have a real relationship and it was more of a friendship that I pushed into something more. He went along with it after a lot of flirtation and my essentially provoking him to start dating me. I know this sounds like I am taking all the blame. Fact is, had I listened to him say – I am not a good boyfriend, and I think we should just be friends – I would have never wasted my time on him for nearly three years.
What’s done is done and I am moving on.
I see that if I don’t plan on having contact with him ever again, then there is no reason to have him as a friend on Facebook.
I do still hope that we can have casual contact and that I can just put this all behind me. I will never be with him again physically, nor do I or will I ever again think of him as a potential romantic companion.
Yes, I realize that the above is probably not possible. I realize that I probably will delete him as a friend on Facebook in the upcoming weeks/months. However, I’m not ready yet. If I were to delete him now, I think I might regret it and go back to regular contact. If I just leave him there, not look now, I’ll delete when I am ready. Writing this, I can understand if you read this and not think it makes sense.
We have a lot of friends and business colleagues in common. Can’t I just move onto a healthier life without him without having to do something so dramatic as deleting him from everything? As long as he doesn’t affect me – I’m thinking that should be ok. Again, I am not sure if it’s possible to have someone like him never affect me emotionally, but, I am willing to give the theory a try.
Oh – writing this all makes it sound like too much effort even to me. I’m curious if anyone has experienced something similar and what was the result?
Ashley- I am certainly guilty of checking on the facebook profile as well. . .I did however unfriend and block him from viewing mine and I am going to stop checking his. . .it does nothing positive for me. I am struggling with no contact. . .I am certain I will not make contact with him but just thinking about ignoring him if we came face to face seems impossible. I decided last night I have to put it all away. . .The further he is from my mind the better. . .I am going to take every picture, old t-shirt, gift box it all up and put it far back in my closet. I hope one day this will all be such a ridiculous distant memory that when I happen upon the box again I will just laugh at the whole thing and say “what was I thinking”? . . . I am doing the “new” guy thing too. It is nice knowing I have so many other options out there but also difficult to step into the unknown when I was so comfortable and used to someone else. I thought about buying my new guy a gift for christmas the other day but as I was looking I just kept picking up things that my EUM would have liked. . .I just couldnt do it. I left the store and decided Im not ready for that kind of relationship again and that I want to keep some distance from this new relationship moving too quickly. It is nice to have the distraction though and what is probably the strangest part of it all is that this “new” guys behavior really opened up my eyes to how badly my EUM really treated me. The difference in the amount of affection and respect is pathetic. . .I hope that this clarity will continue and over shadow how much I miss him. It feels like it really is “it” this time. . .I just keep telling myself. . .”I wont fail, I can’t fail at this”. . .hey. it worked when i quit smoking. . .its just another unhealthy addiction that adds nothing to my life.
Brad- Thanks for the flip on that thought. You are right thinking about it as my choice makes it much more empowering and positive rather then a loss.
i would like to take this opportunity to wish you all a very merry christmas. i hope you make your wishes wisely, and i hope they all come true. may you all have good health and people you enjoy around you. thnk you for being here for myself and everyone else you have helped.
merry christmas and happy 2009. xox
It is 52 days since I decided, I was fed up with being the “yo yo” woman. Every day brings differant emotions. Im ok one day and crying the next, looking around at all the things he did for me in my home, outside my home, and even to buying me a tv, etc.. no end to his gift giving…Why he did that and cheated on me and lied is a mystery to me…This site has helped me so much , I read it every day to remind myself that a 5 yr relationship, of on and off, want you this week, or next month, than becoming cold and distant. this from a divorced man of 56 yrs old!! .I knew from word around town, that he would be with someone for a matter of weeks and it would be over..than he would charm his way back into my life… I said before and I will wonder forever why this man spent thousands of dollars on me, buying me things! His idea of a date was to walk around and shop till he dropped, I found out he took pills for no good reason, he smoked, and literally spent hrs shopping on line and emailing the women even on the buying sites.. I admit I snooped… and I think his financial situation will prob get pretty bad, What happened to really end it were some things I found out, and a habit that creeped me out, I found a series of sex emails, lots of them,to young girls, and others of all ages, and one of his sites said (teen pron) and over the last six months I noticed he stared at young girls, and mostly 3 to 4 yr. olds, He did this about ten times.. I spoke to him about it and all he said was, “well you are the only one who says that is creepy… I than decided to try and cut him out of my life, as he was starting to also raise his voice to me and try to control my clothes, my food, and made fun of me a few times….I agree with Brad on one point and that is if I run into him, I will not acknowledge that he is even there, I will if he approaches me give him the “steely look” I may go home and cry about it after but I will do it. This is the hardest thing Ive ever done in my life, I still feel lost, but now I have another feeling.. and that is I will get my self respect back .
What I left out was, He, and his sister (whom he tells everything to) and he is on the phone long distance 3 to 4 times a week with her and his parents and they live 2000 miles away… The all blocked me off of thier facebooks ..I have met these people and his parents treated me very well…His sis only bothered with me if and when I was with her brother, other than that she ignored me…I will also wonder for the rest of my life… what the heck was wrong with me? why didnt I end it sooner.
Sara,
Sick! I would inform the authorities on this guy’s sick behavior. I think when you have those feelings of loneliness you should remember he is a pedophile?
Another thought I have had is.. was I being unfair in being creeped out because he admired little girls? but than I think about when we visited friends or relatives, which happened frequently he would immediately zero in on any “little girl” who was there, and follow her around and tickle her and tease her non stop… and talk baby talk to her and take so many pictures of her, I would have to say “STOP” enough already, you have enough pictures of her…
Sara,
Do you really need to ask this question? Not only is this man a cheater and controlling but has a high probability of being a pedophile. That should say it all!!
Gaynor.. I was going to send his sister an email and tell her everything, and how disgusted I was, but than I realized that this was a form of “contact ” and thats why I didnt do it, as she has emailed me and asked me to be patiient with him, that he is having a hard time not knowing what he wants out of life… I ignored it. I have to cut all ties…but Im thinking of doing something and havent decided how to go about it..
Sara,
My only contact would be to the authorities.
Yeah, this makes sense. There was countless times when he tried to manage down my expectations. It left me very confused and felt helpless wondering what I was doing? But, in reality it was him who had nothing to offer and it was me who was in denial. Like one poster said in her childhood denial was a way of life, mine too. I just wasn’t handeling these situations because realistically I needed to heal. I will no longer be anyones fall back girl, yeah right!! I can recall a time when we were in the car and he was telling me he wasn’t ready to get married for a long time and he didnt want that, just very outright stated that… granted I was in my early twenties but I was so used to being accomindating to these assclowns… now I would be lke “and what do you have to offer… goodbye!” how dare I let a man treat me like that… I’m so grateful for knwing better and being better equipped but it starts out bc you are ready to get real about getting real.
Hi,
this is a very welcoming page to me since I was on the verge of becoming a yo-yo girl a few days ago.
I was seeing this EUM for a couple of months which is not a long time but it was really intense and also the first time I dealt with a EUM. This guy really confused me blowing hot and cold, standing me up, acting totally uninterested in me, turning my boundaries into “not caring” for him. For example, when I politely asked if he could pay a little more attention to our conversation instead of to the TV he replied that I should be happy that he is able to enjoy himself with a TVshow. (??) Never called when he said he would, instead sending some lame text. He never even appologized for standing me up but only said that it made HIM feel bad that he behaved this way.
As people said above, he displayed a total lack of empathy.
It really ate away at my selfesteem as I kept breaking my boundaries for him. In the end I couldn´t take it anymore, I felt like a nervous wreck all the time waiting for a few crumbs to be thrown my way.
When I told him this he clearly stated that he wants a family and kids and he couldn´t see that happening with me, I didn´t have what it takes to be his wife and the mother of his children.
So he is an EUM who clouds his EUMness by saing he really wants a family and happily ever after. That hurt like hell. I´d rather have him tell me that he didn´t want a family to begin with.
Well, anyhow, I started reading here and felt like a blind man who suddenly saw light. It´s not me! It´s him! And I realized for the first time that my whole famil, especially my father and brother are EUMs ass well. So I have made some changes in those relationships as well. And am working hard trying to figure out what my selfesteem issues are and laying down some boundaries.
I had no contact with my EUM for 8 weeks but now he started texting me. First just a few ” how are yous” and after 3 of those I replied that I don´t want him in my life. He then send email hat he really wants to talk to me in person to explain things and that he has a lot of feelings for me (what does that mean?).
So here I am, in the middle of a difficult struggle with myself and the relationships I have with almost everyone in my life and all I can think is “does he mean it? Has he changed?”
I thought about it for a few days and realized that I mostly want him to have changed so that I can say to myself that I don´t have issues with selfesteem, that I wasn´t wrong, I don´t have to change myself and see my family for what it is, that this website is wrong and this was all a bad joke.
But I am no fool.I resent the fact that I have more issues than I thought I had and that I have to put a lot of effort in. But I can´t deny that voice inside me no more. Eventhough somewhere in my head I just want the easy way out and a fairy tail ending my whole body screams that he is not to be trusted and I´ll only end up hurt again. So I cut all contact again and deleted his number and blocked his email.
I can´t go blind again after having seen.
@ Sara, YES you should be creeped out by him admiring little girls. If you are not the victim of childabuse yourself (which in all honesty could cloud your judgement) you can be damn sure that your allarmbells don´t go off for no reason. Ask yourself, would you have children with this man? Would you trust him alone with your daughter?
If not, what kind of a future or family life do you see with this man? Wether he is really a perv or not, if you don´t trust him that is enough not to proceed.
It’s been a painful, long and difficult process trying to make sense of the past several months of my life.
All the info on this website has been such a godsend for me. It is helping me learn about and understand exactly what type of relationship it is that i have been in. I am working on accepting the reality of that. Reading this article “why you will always be the yo-yo girl if you don’t maintain the No Contact Rule” has further opened my eyes. to my behavior and his. Now, I understand that my behavior is “Yo-Yo Girl” and he is behavior is the “Dog in the manger”. I am have been cutting back on contact little by little for months. I no longer see him anymore(finally-yes!) but I do still respond at times to him contacting me. I’ve had the most difficult time just cutting off all contact but I am hoping that the more I learn and accept that that’s what needs to be done to be fully clear of this that I WILL do it.
ohhhh MY GOD i have been a yo yo fallback girl for 11 years, it was like torture, i let him break all my boundaries, i could not understand what was happening to me, i has so much self respect and confidence before, i let him into my life, but i think it had a lot to do with my x husband too thats another story, i even had many marriage proposals from men that i met just through work as for im very involved in the community, but i had to have this man, i had to make him say i love you and happy ever after, after reading this site i really understand a lot more about myself and what we had which was my illusion, a painful illusion that im finally over