Yesterday in part one, I explained why wondering or questioning whether a man is going to leave his wife or girlfriend for you can put you in a precarious position because it means that the way that the ‘affair’ is playing out is not giving you enough confidence to believe that he will leave her and be with you. This is especially the case if you have to keep wondering and keep asking – it suggests that whatever is being said and happening is not enough. It suggests he’s not leaving…

Last week I wrote about Lovenomics: Managing your desire to be the exception, which was about how we choose to get caught up in illusions and believe that our relationships are being governed by exceptions and anomalies because we desperately want to be believe that our situation is different; that we are exceptions to the rule. There is no greater example of this than in the cheating situation.

Now I want to say – It is not the case that men never leave their wives or girlfriends to be with the ‘Other Woman’ but they are the exception, not the rule.

There are a few key assumptions that I believe women who go into ‘relationships’ with the cheater work off that I talk about extensively in my ebook Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl and these fuel the question and desire for him to leave:

1) If a man is prepared to risk his existing relationship in order to be with you, he must be crazy about you.

A lot of cheaters get off on taking risks and playing truant on their relationships. They don’t like the normality that comes with the steadiness of a relationship or the wants, needs, and expectations that arise from it, so they seek their thrills elsewhere. Sometimes you’re like something they’ve just got to have but they haven’t really thought past winning you over to the bit where you expect them to follow through on their ardent pursuit – read my post about what you can learn about cheating and cheaters from the Tiger Woods saga.

2) If a man has got married or has a girlfriend it shows that he’s capable of commitment which in turn makes him a good catch.

The fact that someone will cheat shows their lack of commitment plus this is a blind assumption based on another assumption, that all people get into relationships for the right reasons and are committed.

3) The reason why he can’t let go of you is because he finds you irresistible.

Men who genuinely want to be with you and who have real trust, care, love, and respect, don’t try to resist you in the wider sense. They sort their lives out to be with you properly, sooner, rather than later.

4) You’re only taking on the ‘other woman’ role as a temporary position with the goal of being the main woman.

This is basically like giving someone a ‘try before you buy’ option. You’re in the position of trying to prove yourself in the hope that one day, you’ll create the impetus for him to leave. Unfortunately the guy who will cheat on an ongoing basis and tie you up in a litany of whines and excuses about his ‘situation’, interprets the fact that you’ll be with him in spite of his other relationship, suggests that you have little or no boundaries and that you’ll be there anyway. He basically assumes he can ‘handle’ the situation should you create conflict.

5) If a man cheats it’s because there is something wrong with the relationship and/or his wife or girlfriend.

Some people actually cheat because things are going ‘too’ well and they need to rebel. If someone doesn’t want to be committed, they will behave as they like, irrespective of whether they were with the Most Perfect Person on Earth.

6) They’re only deceiving the wife/girlfriend whilst being honest with you.

Both of you have to be lied to, to maintain the deception.

7) The ‘other woman’ gives the cheater what he’s missing from his ‘main’ relationship.

Snatched moments and compartmentalised time is not the same as being in a full time, committed out in the open relationship with all of the attendant reality and pressures that come with it. There’s a reason why the saying ‘best of both worlds’ exists!

8) Some relationship with this man is better than no relationship at all.

This is like saying that crumbs is better than nothing because you’ve managed down your expectations into nothing and have got trapped by your own feelings.

As I said earlier, some men do leave their wives/girlfriends to be with the ‘other woman’ but it is the exception, not the norm. The reality is that:

You both need to be on the same page.

Two people who have found themselves crazy about each other in spite of the fact that one of them has some unfinished business to attend to, will get their situation sorted. They take a leap of faith and proverbially move heaven and earth to be with other. They accept that of course there will be some pain and hurt but that they want to be honest with integrity which is better than staying and cheating and pretending they have integrity.

More often than not, no matter what is being said, the actions in the relationship show that the ‘Other Woman’ and the cheater are not on the same page because she’s trying to take things to the next level whilst he’s trying to maintain the status quo.

Why create more drama when you can have the best of both worlds and not be committed to either person?

If he is not being honest with you either and you’re regularly finding out that he’s been telling you porkies via the dripfeed manoeuvre, how can you trust this person to act in your interests and to do as says that he will?

The longer that the deception goes on for is the less likely that he’s going to leave.

Even if he does eventually leave, it’s often the case that he’s not all that he’s cracked up to be, transferring a wealth of problems in your direction. Or….he goes to someone else, something I come across far too often.

So where does that leave you?

For many of you, you’ll be in limbo land. No matter what you suspect is the likely outcome, you’ll opt to stick with the situation and take a massive gamble. You’ll hope to be the exception and hope that fate, the alignment of the planets, fortune cookies etc deal you a favourable outcome.

Even if you have a goal in mind, at some point, you’ll totally normalise the situation and what was originally upsetting and unacceptable becomes your new normality with your managed down expectations because you won’t see a way out.

For those of you still asking him:

1) Make sure that when you have any discussions that they are definitive rather than being wishy washy. A lot of the women I hear from don’t ask direct questions (they think they do though) because they are afraid of hearing bad news or pushing him too far. He needs to be pushed. Better you know where you stand now than find yourself still doing the same thing and having the same conversations in the years to come – read my post on Women Who Talk & Think Too Much syndrome.

2) Be careful of setting deadlines. In fact, you should only set a deadline if he has said that he intends on leaving. I appreciate that you want to get the ball rolling but do not set deadlines that you are not going to follow through on. I am telling you from experience and no matter how much you yell and scream, if you’re still with them afterwards, you look silly and he knows he doesn’t have to leave. Make the deadline realistic but not so long that it loses any meaning. Make sure you gain agreement, be clear on the terms, and be even clearer that it’s over if he doesn’t follow through. 3-6 months is optimum – the shorter the time, the better.

3) If you’ve been asking a lot, stop asking and be a woman of action. If you genuinely don’t want to share this man, don’t share him, and he’ll see that there are consequences and that if he wants to be with you, he has to man up. You are doing yourself a big favour in the long run.

The best thing that you can do is believe in yourself – tell him to come back when he’s free to be with you. That may be never, but it’s better than waiting forever.

If being with someone who is attached is against your core values and forces you to make a rapid departure from who you are, sidelining yourself and living on the fringes and in secret from friends and family, opt out now. If loving him means that you can’t love yourself, choose you.

4) Remember that if their marriage/relationship is not working and they say it as over anyway, they are leaving for that reason, not just because of you. It’s important to remember this because should they leave, the worst types will keep throwing it at you that they only left because you told them to or do the whole ‘I left her for you so you should be grateful’ type thing, or even worse ‘You know how you met me! Why are you surprised that I’m sleeping with X, Y, and Z?’. Some people need a catalyst to leave and can’t end relationships on the basis of it not working – they need to have someone to go to. Tell them you’re be there when they leave and give them space to sort themselves out.

Remember: That fear that many ‘other women’ have that if they leave he’ll think they don’t care or find someone else is misplaced. If you’re worried that he’ll replace you with someone else to cheat with, it suggests he’s worth leaving…

This relationship cannot be just on his terms. Just like he expects you trust in him, he’ll have to trust that you’ll be there when he’s got his sh*t sorted out.
5) Make sure you know what you want before you go down this road.


Sometimes you want them to leave because you want to ‘win’ – then you discover it’s a booby prize…

If you’re OK with being with someone who has a wife/girlfriend, and particularly if it’s not the first time, you need to address your own issues with emotional unavailability and second best syndrome:

“…believing that there is somebody better than you or assuming relationship roles that place you in a starting position below one so that you have to fight your way to pole position. At some point in your life, you’ve decided that you come a poor second around those whom you seek love and validation from.” Source – my ebook Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl

Likewise though, it’s also important to be honest with yourself because some people are more comfortable being a mistress than others. If you’re going to complain but stay anyway, I’d stop having the redundant discussions.

One thing I do know is don’t be blind to the situation and make her ‘real’ – someone else who believes in him or what they have with feelings. Any assumptions you can make about her (particularly in an ongoing situation), you can effectively make them about yourself because you are both with someone who is being duplicitous which means you’re both dining off illusions.

Is he going to leave his wife/girlfriend for you? If he hasn’t told you he will and isn’t already making it happen and keeping you in the loop, I wouldn’t go holding your breath. Either way, be careful what you wish for.

Your thoughts?

Back in part two

For a no holds barred guide to emotionally unavailable men and the women that love them, my ebook Mr Unavailable & The Fallback Girl gives detailed insight into the complicated dynamics of being the other woman. My ebook The No Contact Rule is now available to buy and provides a dedicated guide to getting over someone by cutting contact and injecting some boundaries into your life so that you can move on to a happier you. For personal advice or analysis of your relationship/situation, check out my consultation service

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54 Responses to Is He Going to Leave His Wife/Girlfriend For Me? Part Two

  1. Brad K. says:

    About “1) If a man is prepared to risk his existing relationship in order to be with you, he must be crazy about you.” This assumes you believe the man’s life is a blank slate. That he married his childhood sweetheart, never dated another, never cheated before. That his world consists of two women.

    The reality is that his parents come into the picture, and his reading and schoolmates and community, defining what he things a relationship means. Too many people grow up in homes with weak role models, weak examples of communication, of commitment, and of character, to reasonably make that kind of assumption – about someone available to cheat on a “sacred” oath and bond to a supposedly life-partner.

    The reality is that you have to take his dating and relationship habits into account. If he was ever a bed-partner winner, a Player, a bed hopper – he is just reverting to those hey-days of excitement and conspicuous shows of virility. Hormones specialize in new conquests; civilization and culture flourish with consistency, discipline, and meeting obligations. Is he a barbaric conqueror, or a civilized man? A Playboy “get it where you can” philosopher, or a “salt of the earth” member of the community?

    I lost touch with a friend a few years ago. I later learned that this guy, that left his wife to marry a lovely lady (she was attractive, too) he met at a military officer’s party, were heavily into wife swapping, until she left him, too. In between they shared a bunch of good years, mostly . . .

    I figure that if he was interested in leaving the wife/girlfriend, he would do so before finding anyone else. Otherwise, he is guaranteed to not have addressed the issues that wrecked his relationship – and will thus repeat the previous dysfunctional behavior. Repeating his old tricks will be more comfortable for him than facing his problems, whether that was picking inappropriate partners(!) or bad relationship faults.
    .-= Brad K.´s last blog ..br(n): Mixed Signals – disinterest or differently trained? =-.

  2. Aurora says:

    Brad made some very good points in a follow up to your clear headed smarts, Nat.
    Never again – and I mean never – will I delude myself by choosing to wait. Life is so much fun when you don’t.
    .-= Aurora´s last blog ..Academy Awards 2010 =-.

  3. Sad but wiser says:

    ‘If loving him means that you can’t love yourself, choose you.’

    If I had read this years ago I wouldn’t be recovering from a 4-year stint as the OW. Although we had fantastic chemistry, the relationship never felt ‘right’ to me, and of course I ended up normalising something I didn’t like at all, out of hope. Ladies, if it doesn’t feel right, then get out – it won’t feel any more ‘right’ down the road.

    The last time he came crawling back to me he had set his own deadline (nearly made me fall off my chair in disbelief!) that he was committing to make up his mind about us in 4 weeks. For those 4 weeks he was soliciting me every day, constant emails, texts, calls, sex, emotional support, he was taking advantage of the situation as much as he could… then he started making noises that he wouldn’t be respecting his promise to me, that he was too scared to make up his mind, that he couldn’t ‘wrap his head around the amount of change needed to make us happen’ (this from a man who doesn’t have kids and has plenty of money…) and all the while very much continuing the affair instead of having integrity and staying away to sort his issues out.

    I ended up holding him to his promise and deadline. No decision, he broke his promise, I walked out with my head held high. He made a couple of ridiculously feeble attempts to try to engage me again, I ignored everything and kept on reading NML’s No Contact book every night for reinforcement… I feel better than I’ve felt in years; I now feel true to myself. This man wasn’t worth losing my self-respect over. I’m just sad it took me this long to realize it.

  4. Sherry says:

    Thank you NML for these two posts.

    I have always believed and lived to this belief that if I involve myself with an attached or married man, I’m hurting another woman.

    Another woman was involved with my ex-husband and that was one of the reasons why our marriage fell apart. I was in the receiving end of that pain knowing that another woman or a “sister” can do this to me. I never want another woman to feel my pain and I vowed never to knowingly involve myself with a man who isn’t available to date.

    If women takes this same stance, men will not have the opportunities as a lot of women are giving them.

    Doing the “right thing” is never easy, but it’s the right thing to do. A lot of people seem to want to take the easy way out. I’ve always preached about “doing the right thing”. It’s tough, but it’s right.

    Remember, another woman is hurting by being involved with a man who is “taken”. To me, every woman is my “sister”. I would never want to hurt my sister.

    Thank you,
    Sherry

  5. Adeline says:

    My ex’s parents had a very crazy relationship that affected his current ideas about relationships and women. Needless to say my ex is a spoiled narcissist but I want to put this story out there so if you’re ‘The Other Woman’ you’ll think twice.

    When I met V, my ex’s mum, she talked a lot about how when she met D, his dad, they were so in love and they wanted to have my ex-Mike. It was such a LOVE STORY. She lived in Zagreb and he lived in Belgrade in former Yugoslavia and he would frequently go to Zagreb for business trips. What he didn’t tell her was that he was married when he met her and that his wife was pregnant with his first child. She claims he lied to her and only told her when she was pregnant with Mike. As soon as that happened, she gave him an ultimatum and he quickly divorced his first wife. and got married to her so that Mike would be legitimate. They were soooo in loooveee.

    I suspect that she knew he was lying to her and had someone else but she twisted the truth because she did not want to let him go, she had invested so much, hence the intense desire to become pregnant and tie him down. She twists the truth even now, because it is easier to be the helpless victim whose hands are tied.

    What happened after was a painful 15 year marriage where the man continued to cheat, lie, and make her feel like a fool, by blaming her and being unreasonable in reasonable circumstances. She told me a painful story of how when Mike was little, D needed to pick someone up from the airport. He took extra care to dress up, and was vague about who he was picking up. When she said she would like to go along so that Mike could watch the planes take off, he told her there might not be space in the car, and when he conceded after she coerced him, he told her not to make a fuss when they picked up the visitor which goes back to the outrageous statements that Natalie talked about previously. This someone turned out to be a beautiful woman who hugged and kissed him and basically ignored his wife and child all the way in the car.

    Even though she divorced him, she still thinks he is the woman he loved most, though he would beg to differ. He hates her so much, narcissists blame everyone but themselves, that he told my ex that all women are lying snakes and would use any reason to usurp her place as my ex’s parent. They do not work together as parents and my ex has learned to manipulate this. Of course D is incapable of love, he is currently terrorizing his live in girlfriend with the same crap. His first child sent the family a video when she was 16 asking what she had done to deserve an absentee father. As for V, she’s depressed a decade on, having lost her sense of self in having to lie to herself for the decisions she had made. This strange lady is friends with D’s first wife, a friendship that started when she was still married to D, under the pretext that Mike has a half sister and blood is thicker than water. I suppose they had to band together against the man who hurt them, and this also allowed her to appease her feelings of guilt, give her a sense of control, and make her feel like a bigger, better person for choosing to be a third party.

    I’m pretty sure that since D got both women in his life pregnant he figured he might as well go with the easier and younger option- V and still get away with his assclown ways. They always choose the same way because it is easy. Are people like that happy? Nope. The man is so disconnected from reality and is so busy trying to control his environment and manipulate people that he’s an alcoholic who his own family doesn’t really like to be with. It must be hard to be him.

    When my ex and I split up, and it ended badly, hence I found this website, it made me think of children and their upbringing which is discussed a lot on this site. I truly believe that every woman should listen to the stories told by their boyfriend’s parents, watch how they interact, how their boyfriend interacts with their parents, or if a man prioritizes his family way above you. These stories always made me feel uncomfortable. Also I saw my ex yell at his mum many times; I saw his dad and him yell many times. Eventually he did disrespect me too, even if it wasn’t through yelling alone.

    I was still on talking terms with his mum after the bad breakup and she told me “He’s still contacting you because he loves you”, “I don’t mind if a man cheats as long as he doesn’t bring it home”. Think hard, that doesn’t sound right. I doubt any woman wants to sound so ridiculous or have her beliefs and expectations managed down to such a dubious level.

    I finally cut myself away from her when I realized that the woman was allowing her son to disrespect her the same way her ex husband did. I was sick of hearing her warped ideas of love and relationships, seeing how she lived in the past deluding herself, and how she literally wasted half her life on potential. I mean what made her think that she would be any different. She knew what she was marrying. This isn’t love, it’s something warped. It made me think: do I want to end up like this sad creature? Natalie is right, ultimately relationships are built on trust, honesty and integrity. When you are in love you will move heaven and earth to be together, but it has to be within the context of integrity and honesty, and you should not feel bad or compromise your values and who you are in any way. Nobody wants to live a lie.

  6. MaryC says:

    Maybe as women we shouldn’t hurt each other by dating someone else’s husband or boyfriend in the first place.

  7. Vanna says:

    There was an inciden that involved a classmate whom I met last spring. It started with her sitting behind me and ended up with her eventually moving up and sitting next to me. As far as she was concerned, she neded a friend and sat next to me because of my smile and found me to be a handsome guy, but I felt something else from her. I told her what I felt from her and pointed out to her that ever since she seated herself next to me, she has not detached herself from her seat. She responded, confirming my feelings to be correct. She was interested, but had a boyfriend. I did not want to know about her being interested, but that was what came out. Mind you, her boyfriend was not being receptive to her going back to school or having friends. Every morning when she would get herself ready to come to school, he would talk shit to her—saying things like, “You have MS )Multiple Sclerosis), you can’t work!” I, of course, was the secret friend. I could not call her, hang out with her (except for on the college campus), or do anything else and She would always complain to me and other people at the college about him, but at the same time trying to maintain her faithful composure, stating to me that she hopes it is a trait I wish for in a relationship. Try to maintain her faithful composure all she wants; eventually, she stressed to me she was on the fence and was indecisive about if she should let him stay or make him go. I was not comfortable wit the fact that she was growing on to me, but I decided not to fight it too much. I alowd her to let her feelings grow and I sort of let myself go. I put up with being the secret frend for awhile and I had thre outlets to turn to for feedback—two of them warned me about the hazards of being the secret friend and other red flags because they were much older and had a different mentality compared to my ex-girlfriend who was excited for me. Well, the older outlets were right. Ultimately, she decided to stay with her boyfriend. Due to me keeping my guard despite sort of letting myself go and not really expressing a desire to be in a relationship, I was not that disappointed. I guess the little bit of disappointmen stems from the fact that it was the first time I let myself go during my lifelong recovery from my episode with illicit drugs. I admit, she seemed like a nice and thoughtful woman, maybe even more. Can you partially see now wat I mean when I stated I notice I’ve been attracting unavailable women in my comment on an earlier post?

  8. An old blogger says:

    stay away… far, far away… it never works out.. it leaves you empty while you’re in it and even emptier when it’s over.. and if they so leave, as in my past experiecnce, it brings a whole other slew of issues ( as NML stated).. the guilt, the mood swings, family reactions, blaming you, just to name a few..

    I would never rec anyone going down this road.. i’ve been there it’s not pretty… these men promise you the world but cannot give you anything except heartache and regret..

  9. lisa says:

    “The best thing that you can do is believe in yourself – tell him to come back when he’s free to be with you. That may be never, but it’s better than waiting forever.” That is the best advice. After two years of believing what I thought was the truth, that he was leaving and just trying to get it all worked out, I finally had to realize that it was a lie and say that exact thing to him knowing that he probably would never sort his life out and be free to be with me. At the time, I felt like I’d never feel happy again, my heart hurt so badly, but here I am over a year later and I have my own, happy life back! It was worth the hard period to get to where I am now. I think I’ve seen him with another woman (not his wife…. ) and it made me feel glad that I didn’t keep sticking around for more of the lie! I was naive, and he knew it, but thankfully came upon this web-site and was able to get my head on straight!

    Thanks for this article, and the no contact rule. They are life/health/sanity saving!

  10. lindsay bluth says:

    I heard a quote many years ago that applies to this post: “Trouble with the rat race is, even if you win you’re still a rat.”

    Even if you do “win” the man, what have you won, someone who is obviously OK with seeking out the comforts of another woman on the first woman’s clock and justifying it all away. The whole thing seems counterproductive to the goal of engaging with emotionally available, healthy men. If NOTHING else is a non-negotionable red flag, a man who chats you up while belonging to another should be.

  11. tiffany hall says:

    Nat, thanks for this wonderful posting again! I was involved with a MM for almost three years and broke up with him ‘coz he was involved at the same time with one of my girlfriend, who existed even longer than me! I felt betrayed, cheated and stupid but who else can I blame – no one but myself! No one will give sympathy to OW, the typical saying if he can cheat with you, he can cheat on you! I left him almost two years but the pain, anxiety, refusing to let go completely…. all these torture still linger from time to time. I was in tears everyday for over one year, keep asking myself all the why’s. My other gf stayed with him for one more year and lately left him because she can’t take it any more. She wants him to leave his wife and ladies we all know the answer! She hated me for being the OW (how ironic). No one can ever escape the consequences of his/her choices and I am sure she is going through the pain now. The longer one stays, you are just prolonging the pain. How I wish she can join this website. The wife still thinks he is a wonderful man and you know how skilfull he is in leading his double or triple life. Poor woman, how I wish one day I will have the courage to confess everything to her.

  12. lisa says:

    Sherry,

    That is so right, and when I got involved, I was incredibly naive. I had been previously married to an EU for 13 years, and then divorced for 6 years without dating anyone when I met this guy. I was flattered and believed every single word he said. Now that I am on the other side of things, and over it and can see clearly, I would NEVER do that again, never want to hurt another person.

    I even apologized to the other person, (not that it went over very well…)

    But you are right. Don’t hurt another “sister.”

  13. Susie says:

    Great post. My AC was similar to yours, NML – has a longterm girlfriend. I waited for over 5 years and then something inside just broke – I refused to be there creating a big load of drama and making myself ill for a man that refused point blank to put me 1st, that refused to accept that I was a human being with feelings – he cared only for himself, his life, getting his rocks off.

    Sadly, towards the end I became blindsighted – I just swept the situation under the carpet and gladly accepted any crumbs he flew my way – I also accepted he wasn’t going to leave her and made out as if that was OK as a way of holding on to him. In retrospect, my self esteem has been so badly damaged I was literally in in the gutter, picking up scraps of whatever attention he would give me to avoid the pain.

    Then i faced the pain head on – it was not pleasant. I felt sick, tired, constant dreams, contact flashbacks, tears, rants/raves, avoiding places where I thought i may bump into him. I realised I had gone from being this confident, attractive girl that had everything to this total low life with no self esteem – and i hated what i saw in the mirror.

    A few months on I am a different person ( yes, it is damn hard but I know that I am better without the crap!!!) – i can’t believe how low i got, how depressed i felt inside, how sad my life had become waiting on someone that couldn’t give a monkey’s about me.

    Time is of the essence girls. Do not waste time on men that are not worthy of our love. There are plenty of men out there who will give us what we really need. Stop gloryfing him – he is really not that great a catch.

    I regret the time I spent on him for nothing – i wish i could have foreseen the damage of going back and doing the same thing over and over was doing to me inside – because it’s mindblowing.

    The only way is up..and as far away from these AC’s as possible!!

  14. Mary Beth says:

    What a great thread and one that has helped me immensely today. Day 17 of NC but honestly struggling, struggling hoping he’ll show up on my doorstep to either try his same ‘ol stuff whereupon I can finally LET HIM HAVE IT by telling him I see him for the CAD/LIAR/USER he is and slap his gorgeous face OR shows up to beg for forgiveness and admit the error of his ways. I just can’t stop obsessing! I should be working, living, exercising, lunching with girlfriends BUT…I seem to be only able to drag through the day with this GIANT PROBLEM in my head.

    The worst, worst thing is not seeing his “true nature” until after the discovery of the affair by his wife. I believed this man loved me, found me irresistable, intoxicating, he pursued me relentlessly, said ALL THE RIGHT THINGS, but yes, in hindsight, red flags were there. I was also extremely EUW during our push/pull thang…even tho I was absolutely crazy for him physically and emotionally,.

    I never believed he was using me. UNTIL the covers had been blown on the affair and he showed up at my house 11 days later saying he’d been kicked out of the house and was staying w/friends. He didn’t contact me for those 11 days after she showed up and found us but when he did, he hid his car in my garage (why??? if he had been kicked out?) and was in a rush and pretty much crawled on me, had sex and said he was sorry, he shouldn’t have come, he was confused, in a bad place. When I asked if he had ever loved me his answer: Yes, but I can’t love two people. As if he was reading my mind he said “I didn’t use you”. BUT THAT IS EXACTLY HOW IF FEEL. His whole manner, body language, attitude toward me had completely changed and I was overwhelmed with confusion and trying to rationalize his behavior.

    Two days later I emailed him and told him how deeply he had hurt me and that we both needed to move on and heal. He then phone stalked me for days and I wouldn’t call him back and then I caved and called him to say I wanted to see him. BUT I thought about it all day and then stood him up basically, not returning his calls to see where we would meet. The anger of how he had treated me those 11 days after and that night he came to my house kicked in and I told him it’s over, don’t call me anymore, I don’t ever want to see you again. I felt SO EMPOWERED by owning that anger, and by feeling in control of the breakup. BUT…here’s where I am unable to forgive myself:

    He continued to call, I didn’t answer. He left me a string of drunken voice mail messages about missing me and being ready to have a relationship w/me “only this time, he’s free”. I still stayed strong KNOWING that he is no prize: he’s a liar, a cheater, an underperformer and would not be an enhancement to my life. Yet, when he had the balls to come to my house to “talk” and although I told him I didn’t believe a word he said, except for the missing me part, and I reminded him of how badly he had made me feel on our last encounter and basically told him if that was who he was then I didn’t want to waste time w/him. So, what next…he’s saying he’s sorry, that he hadn’t been in the right frame of mind and then before I know it we’re kissing, all over each other…and here’s where my SHAME really kicks in…before we retreat to my bedroom…he says “can I put my car in your garage?”…instead of having some self respect and feet on the ground when I questioned him as to why he needed to hide his car…I just accepted his answer that he “didn’t like feeling like his wife might be following him around still”…and then we proceeded to have crazy sex for a couple of hours, chatted for awhile and then he MADE HIS RUSH OUT THE DOOR with a lame exuse of having to be “somewhere”. His last words to me were “so you don’t want me to call you anymore?” to which I told him…”get yourself sorted out, I don’t want to be each other’s booty call”…his response “I don’t want that either”…and then he was gone. It took me two days of absolute stunned confusion to figure out that I had ONCE AGAIN been used, duped hoping for things to go back to wonderful. I blocked his numbers/email so if he’s tried to call me/contact me I don’t know…but he did call a little over a week ago from a different # leaving me a vm wishing me Happy Mother’s Day…

    In all my 47 years I’ve never had an experience with such a cad! I have internalized his treatment of me I know and sit obsessing over whether he really did kicked out…because if he did…why wouldn’t he have been with me?…to he must be back with her because he’s still hiding/sneaking around. I know this is so illogical to be so enamoured, “in love” with such a confusing, deceitful player but, again, what I got from him during those nine months was as if God/the universe decided I had suffered enough in my 20 plus year marriage with my EUM husband and sent it to me in the form of this new man. He said/did/validated everything in me and for me that my Ex never did…EXCEPT OF COURSE, all this was coming from a MM!

    Was I the perfect prey? Was I used? Am I a blithering fool? After reading all these posts about all these awful men out here in the dating world I am scared, scared scared…even with all my issues I would never be able to treat another human being like he has done w/me…my self esteem feels shattered.

    I am trying to move forward and get stronger but I continue to have nightmares/dreams about him and feel so incredibly BAD. I keep reminding myself that what he did is on HIM, not me. I know I made a horrible mistake in engaging myself with a married man and I have had many a tearful night thinking of the pain his wife must be in (she’s been thru this before).

    This is not about me winning him because I really don’t want him. This is about me having my ego so bruised because this man has not been straight up with me (I am the OW that believed his dishonesty was with his wife, not me…come to find out that is a farce always! I am disgusted by my behavior and his!

    How do I move forward and get this creep out of my mind? I still miss him sexually and I miss the illusion (still having a hard time accepting that is what it was) of what we had before we got caught.

    Of course, on many levels I feel all this pain is deserved for fooling around w/a married man.

    • billy says:

      While I do sympathize with your pain, I have to tell you that it is NOTHING compared to what your stupid fantasy “relationship” with this creep caused for his wife. As a betrayed husband, I can tell you that the pain never ends. I do not know if I will ever heal from this, if I will ever be able to trust anyone since she was such a crafty liar.

      As a devoted married man whose wife took up with a scumbag like the one you describe, I can assure you that it is not normal for a man to cheat. There are plenty of good guys out there. I hope you find one… or that you’re happy alone.

      The bright side of this is that you can learn your lesson and stay away from married men. The ones who cheat are all selfish bastards. Any man who would treat his family that way is no man at all. Any man who would treat his lover like that is no man at all. Any woman who would find anything remotely attractive about such a jerk needs serious help.

      Sorry if that seems harsh. I truly hope that you heal and move on to something much more fulfilling.

      • Allison says:

        Billy,

        I sympathize with you.
        I so agree with the selfishness of it all, no one considers what the spouse or the children experience in these situations.

        I’m curious as to why you do not put your wife in the same category as the man, as she didn’t seem to consider your feelings for one moment?

        I do hope you will be able to trust again, as there are many of us who do value a monogamous relationship.

        • Used says:

          Allison–
          Exactly! Billy is NOT judging his cheating wife in the same manner that he is judging the cheating man. Further, he is telling women to trust that there are good men out there, ones who won’t cheat, at the same time that he is saying that he will never trust another woman ever again (and this means even a good woman!).

          Funny how this works.

          I note that I was single for a very long time, through all of my 20s, and felt that I, the 100% innocent and good woman (who, btw, was a virgin until marriage at 30/almost-31, and who NEVER cheated, ALWAYS had integrity and resoect for men, etc etc.), “paid” for the mistakes and sins of women who DID cheat, lie, jerk men around, etc etc. WHICH DID NOT MAKE SENSE. Especially b/c I knew that I had a good reputation all-around AND that men found me attractive. Yet men were always “too scared” to ask me out, or would verbally tell me, “Oh, like you never cheated”–they’d in effect be telling me that I wasn’t as “good” a person as I made myself out to be. Many of these men also bitched about how “no good women” exist anymore!

          See how the above analyses of myself and Billy’s and Allsion’s comments all tie together?

          So, questions:

          1. Why is Billy acting contrary to his own beliefs/values/advice?

          2. And why did the “men” I knew do the same? AND WITH AN INNOCENT WOMAN?!

          See, given my own past, and given that I wasn’t so delusional and lying-to-myself about anything, I trult think that the men ARE the problem today. Not all. But most! They are MISERABLE and want nothing less than what is “PERFECT”– when that either doesn’t exist as they define it and/or when they can go get it when they feel like it. (In other words, “I know you are still single. I’ll F**k around while you sit here and wait for me. BTW, thx for the signs that you are interested! Now I KNOW that you’ll wait for me! See ya later!”)

          I think that Billy is a bit of a hypocrite.

          Go reward that good woman with the Great New You! She will deserve it, so much, no doubt!

          • billy says:

            Hey Used,

            Thanks for pointing out my “hypocrisy” in now having trust issues (which I never had before)… but I don’t think it’s totally unreasonable. I was betrayed and deceived for over a year in horrible ways. She used to call me while the other man was going down on her. It was one of their fun little games. Then she’d come home from “the gym,” take a shower and act like everything was normal. Sometimes we’d even have pretty good sex after she had been with him.

            All the while, I was totally oblivious. You live through that and not develop trust issues, and I will recommend you for sainthood.

            I’m not getting involved with anyone until I get myself straight, but I’m telling you right now that what the other woman goes through is NOTHING compared to what the betrayed wife goes through, not that it’s some kind of pissing match. I mean, come on, she bore his children and put up with a lot more of his bullshit than the other woman did. The other woman got only the best of him — the gallant lover, the romantic, the friend — which is why other women go crazy for these guys — they’re not real. The wife got shit upon.

            Ladies, if he’s married and he’s pursuing you, it can only lead to ruin. He’s a scumbag. If he really likes you and his marriage is really “over,” he’ll give you a call when the divorce is final.

        • billy says:

          Allison,

          Oh, I will be able to trust and love again… I think. I’ve got a great therapist. I won’t get involved with anyone until I can do that because I don’t want to be an assclown or EUM. And I’m proud of the fact that I never cheated.

          As for my wife, yes, I do blame her along with the married man. You have no idea the amount of rage I felt, how foolish I felt, how betrayed I felt not only because she spread her legs for another man but because she talked smack about me with him, totally re-wrote the history of our relationship, etc.

          • Allison says:

            Billy,

            I’m sorry you had to experience this.

            So happy to hear that you’re seeking therapy; you sound like you are very emotionally aware.

            I wish you the very best, and hope you find the happy and loving relationship you’re seeking.

            Hugs!

  15. ZZ says:

    l use the sentence from the artickle “He needs to be pushed”…Wow,
    This is exactly what l did – he came to visit me to my hometown telling his mother and father ( and indian family thing) that he is on for business trip.
    Eventually, as this has been on-off relationship for 4 years, where in the middle of it he got married, l got fed up with all the BS and asked very directly questions l wanted answers. Having serious issues in his family (well, they were constant, neverending) he finally said, no he cannot give me future.
    At least l pushed him saying that and that was it.
    I feel so sorry for everything and especially for his wife – she didnt deserve it either. He told me once, that he wants to let her go, so that she can probably find someone, who loves her, too. What a load of BS.
    However, the bottom line is – once a cheater, always a cheater, as some say, and after how he has treated me and his wife, he definitely is not a catch. The lies and BS weights over the attraction l felt for him.

    • lenny says:

      just found out a couple weeks ago that my ex is currently dating, long distance, one of the 4 women he was email flirting with during our relationship (3.5 years). apparently she is moving here over the summer to “stay with him”–he says–not to
      “live together”.

      during our time together, i read his emails (intuition) and found all of these notes from different women. this particular person actually wrote a college paper about the two of them–referencing them as a piece of art–and sent it to my then boyfriend. she also posted it on her blog/website….i guess she was trying to get busted, as she herself had a long-term boyfriend (in fact, she basically was a step-mother to his son).

      i told him to cut the crap, and end it with these women. he did, we went to therapy and i thought we were working toward a common committed goal. then 4 months later, he moved out.
      i got the, ” i cant be the partner you need” stuff, which made me feel like i “needed” too much. we still slept together for 4 months and then in november, he said he needed a “clean break”. in december he went to visit her in california and i guess they’ve gotten serious since then…thus, the move to NYC for the summer.

      im rambling. sorry. but this news has taken me back to some of the feelings i had when i found out about the flirting–about not being good enough, betrayal…this girl, i just didn’t trust her–met her once–and now i know why. i just don’t understand this type of hurtful behavior. i get that she has issues and is looking for “safe” validation…but, how selfish can a person be.

      why do women behave this way and hurt others? it’s similar to the selfish betrayal of my boyfriend. just self-centered.

  16. Catira says:

    Just ended an eight month emotional turned physical affair. We are both married, he for almost 27 years, claimed he had never cheated before. My second affair (long story, bad marriage, can’t afford to get out as the sole breadwinner). He is a work colleague who I have known for a few years. We started spending time together and eventually it became physical. We both felt horribly conflicted about it and eventually I gave him the out and he took it. Actually my opinion is not all of these men are cads, there are many reasons men cheat, in my case I believe it was just that we got along well and we enjoyed each other’s company and well things just happened. Sometimes this is just part of life, not a nice part, but a part anyway. I am taking it harder than he is because I think my marriage is worse than his, but that is my problem not his. We have to remain “friends” to an extent because of work reasons and that will be hard. But I am just taking it day by day for now and believing that I need to now focus on myself and get my life together, marriage and all.

  17. Amanda says:

    I had been dating a married man for the past four years. It started with him coming over all the time. I am a single mother….still am! We had our struggles constantly and he said yes, I love you. I can’t leave my wife as she has stated that she will take the kids from me and I will never see them. She also has threatened to harm herself. Within the past month, his wife started texting me and I learned many things. She was asking him to leave. He was just as abusive and controlling with her as he was with me. He had no job, no car, no anything. Two weeks ago, he left my house and called her. He stated he had no where to go….actually, I have been his lap dog so he knew he could go there, he was just munipulating. Well, she came to pick him up and he ended getting himself thrown in jail with a domestic. He got a no contact order for both his wife and his children. His court day came a few days later and at that point she served him divorce papers. I bailed him out that day thinking that now is our chance to get started and start our lives together as a partnership. He stopped at my home right after jail and wanted to have sex. I refused at that point. After that, he left me and stayed at someone else’s house. The very next day, I got the text that he was dumping me. He stated that he needed to take care of him and work on getting his family back together. I have not heard a word from him in a week and a half. This man felt like he was my everything and it has been ripped from me. I knew he was still making love to her just as he was to me. I need help. I feel as though a death has occurred. It was so easy for him to dispose of me. I need help getting over this. The thoughts that run through my mind are horrible. What can I do? This pain is overwhelming…..it feels like I can’t breathe. I should have planned for this…..

    • NML says:

      Amanda I think you need honesty. You have been so focused on getting your dream and winning this guy that you have not acknowledged that this guy is a liar, a controller and barred from his wife and kids and you’re moseying over to collect him from jail. This isn’t a fairytale. It’s not a case of that now that the wife and kids are out of the way you can start afresh and act like they don’t exist. This guy has problems and he has nothing to offer you and you need better than this plus you are expecting more than is on offer. He has totally disrespected you and shat on your loyalty – stop being there for this man. He is a user and a liar.

  18. robin says:

    I am someone who has been seeing a married man for a while.

  19. robin says:

    I am someone who has been seeing a married man for a while. At first I was told that thier relationship was strained because niether of them were happy anymore.He has told me that he wants to leave her but they still have children that live at home, and he does not want to upset them. I told him that I understood, but that if they continued to stay together that the children would feel the tension between them and that would not be healthy for them either. I realize now that I was just wasting my breathe because he has no intentions of leaving her. They have been together for over 20 years and he will not interupt his comfort and stability no matter what. That I was just a tool to make his wife realize that he could have somewhere else to go if she did not step up and act like the wife she used to be. She has found out about me, and at first it was a bad situation, but now I think it has gotten better for him.He has told me she has really been trying to be a better wife to him. At first when he told me this i was upset and tried to get him to move out, but I now have seen the look in his eyes when he speaks of her, and I realize that I have just been wasting my time. He still loves her and will not leave her no matter what I say. He is just keeping me at arms length. She gets the best of him and I get whats left of him. I am at a point in my life now where I want to be the one who is first and only in someones eyes. I loved him so deeply that it drove me insane everytime he went home to her, that I just wanted to stand in the street and scream everything to her that we have done, but I knew that he would never want anything to do with me again, so I have always held my tongue. He realizes that I am at the end of the road with our relationship. He always ttells me what I want to hear so I won’t give him up, at first it used to work but it does not anymore. I am tired of being the other woman, I want to be the only woman now. I just do not have the strength to leave him on my own. If anyone has any advice please share it with me.

  20. Minnie says:

    I’ve had my share of pain being with a MM for 2 years. I’ve shed a lots of tears whenever his wife is back for holiday (she’s working in another state) many times a year. I never had a chance to celebrate any festivals with him, except my own birthday. After she left, he will mend my heart with care and attention. But the pain is repeated everytime she comes back. The worst is seeing her holding onto his arms while walking together and she chats happily. I was confused as he said they are not in good terms since before he met me.
    I’ve wanted to leave him many times but my heart stopped me. I loved him deeply and have faith in him that one day he will be with me. He’s neither a sweet-talker nor a flamboyant person. He looked straight into my eyes everytime we talked about this. So, I continued to suffer a little longer and see how it goes.

    Finally, on this month, he decided to be with me and proceeded with divorce. If I were to wait any longer, I might have left.

  21. Angie says:

    I was involved with a MM and was the ‘OW’ for nearly 9 years. The entire time, he would tell me he was never getting along with her, called her the ‘b’ word, but had to stick with it because of the kids. Right. I got smart last year and dumped him, but this was before I found out he was moving with her. They are still a happy little family, my heart was still broken even after I pushed him away, and still will be until I can find closure. I hope any woman reading this will stay away from any MM. It’s not worth the heartache and horrible feeling in the end. They are lying to their wife, which means, they are lying to you!

  22. Angie says:

    Robin-I read your story above, please get out of the situation you are in. My story sounds very similar to your story, however I was with this MM for 9 years. I stood by him faithfully for this long. You luckily have a short time invested in this relationship, get out while you can. They will never leave their wife, take it from me, after 9 years, he up and moved with his wife, said he was moving (on his own and getting a separation) so we could be friends, I thought I could have closure because it was mutually agreed upon, but he up and left with her, after lying and lying, changed his numbers, I find out he started “new” in a new area with his wife, I have no way to contact him to find closure because I never got the chance to tell him that he was a liar and a cheat for 9 years! I blamed myself for so long but realized he lied to his wife the whole time, and lied to me also. So here I sit after this long without being able to finally put closure to this long relationship, I have to somehow find a way to move on. So if someone can dump you after 9 years in a relationship, it never mattered to him who I was as a person, how I felt, and how I would feel, they will move on just as fast as as they moved in on you. He knew by lying his way out of it, and moving on with his wife, that he could just turn the other way and act as if 9 years met nothing at all. It’s been a year now, the hurt is still there, the confusion, but I know I have to move on and stay strong. You will do the same and feel as though a weight was lifted off your shoulder. It’s hard to forget the memories, good or bad, but leave them in your dust, and find some happiness in your life!

  23. robin says:

    thank you angie for the advice. the very day that i wrote that blog, he called me and ended our relationship. he had been calling me from a prepaid cell phone so his wife would not see it on their bill. well she found the phone and went nuts. she tried to call me but i did not answer, so she started texting me while they were fighting. she told me that since i tried to get him to leave her that i could have him. well i went so far as to text her and apologize for everything. she sent me a text back and told me she knows that it was not all my fault, that he was the one who decided to cheat. well i was just going to leave it at that, until he decided to call me in front of her and make me look like i was stalking him. i sent a text message and told her everything. told her about all the lies he told me about her, told her that we have been intimate, because he told her that we have never had sex, that i tried to but he would not give into my advances. told her that we have been in her bed. i wanted her to know everything. well he got really upset and called me again and asked me why i told her everything, that i just ruined his life and that i cost him everything. i told him he did not care that he lied to me and crushed my world, so why should i care about his feelings. the scary thing is that i still love him and would probably go back to him if she does leave him. i want to get over him, i just do not know how. i have loved him for so long and so deeply that i just cannot move on. i cry all the time and feel like i have an elephant on my chest making me not be able to breathe. i know that it will get easier over time, but right now i just feel like i cannot go on without him. luckily i have friends and family supporting me. without them i do not think that i would be able to get over him.

    • Used says:

      Technically, you did not have to do what you did. You stated in your earlier post that you wanted to leave the relationship at that time (the post’s time) anyways.

      What you did was REACTIVE, and based solely on what he said about you. Why should you care what this piece of crap says about you? That you are an alleged “stalker”? So what?

      For the longest time, the wife didn’t know the details. YOU decided to tell her the details b/c there was a blow to your ego, b/c HE ended this “relationship” first and called you a stalker.

      You ALL suck. I feel sorry for the wife most.

      • Eve says:

        “Why should you care what this piece of crap says about you?”

        On one hand yes, on the other hand if someone was talking crap about me I’d have plenty to say about it.

        • Used says:

          No matter how the wife found out, it’s better that she KNOWS than not-know about the affair! For her own protection. (Not that you have a disease, but what if you did? Or, even if you didn’t–how do you know for sure that you were the only OW, or that there weren’t other “part-time”–one shagb, one time–OW? Remember, these guys like yours are pieces of shit!)

          I have written posts today about how I unwittingly came to look like a stalker to someone I dated once, and how the “friend” who assisted in creating that image of me STILL tries to keep that image alive. For many reasons, I can not say or do anything about it. But you know what? I won’t stoop that low to give the ex-EUM or anyone around him THAT kind of honor: the honor that I give 2 shiots about what he or any of them think.

          Yes, my staying silent helps in his absolving himself of being the bad guy that he was throughout the relationship. It’s convenient for him, I know.

          But I don’t care about him, I care about me and me only!
          EVEN THOUGH he opened the door to me being shit-talkeds about in a new life I was trying to create for myself.

  24. Eve says:

    Don’t feel guilty because he continues to lie and try and cover up his grubby second life by making you look like you’re crazy. By the sounds of things his wife knows this. Now you need to look after yourself by cutting him loose.

  25. Heartbroken says:

    @About 2) Setting a Deadline. I had an affair with a man who had a girlfriend/business partner. The excuse was always that he couldn’t leave her because they were negotiating a business deal. But he wasn’t sleeping with her and didn’t love her. Oh no – it was me he loved.

    Yeah right.

    I fell in love with this man but after five years of joy and misery and hearing the same old lines over and over again I set a deadline of six weeks, knowing that the business was stable. When I last saw him, hugged me tight, told me that he loved me deeply but he couldn’t leave her at the moment . . . .

    . . .because she had a rash.

    A rash. He showed me the picture of her with a rash. A stress rash. Probably brought on by being with him.

    I had all sorts of things I was prepared to say to him but I kissed him and said I couldn’t do this any more. His last words to me were:

    ‘I will leave her.’

    I left and didn’t look back.

  26. Andi says:

    I think Natalie said it best… They are married until they aren’t and to expect them to behave honorably with you while being dishonorable to their wives is just another example of how we let “love” blind us to their AC behavior.

  27. robin says:

    well the funny thing now is the wife of the mm i was seeing is texting me now. she is being friendly to me, but i really do not want to have any contact with either one of them. i think she just wants to rub it in my face that she is still with him, and i am not. i know that i was not the first person that he has cheated on her with, he told me he has been unfaithful before, i was just the one who was stupid enough to fall for him. i am no fool when it comes to my health, we used protection everytime. i wanted to tell her about the other women, but i just couldn’t. i knew when i told her about us that it was tearing her apart, i just figured if i told her about the other women it would kill her, or she would kill him, and i could not do it. i do not know if the reason why his wife is texting me is because she wants to find out if we are still communicating or if she really does want to become friendly. i know that we share this common bond now, i just don’t know if i can put my feelings for him aside right now and be friendly to her. i don’t know what to do right now, i am conflicted about the situation.

    • Eve says:

      Could just come right out and ask her why she is still contacting you or ask what she wants? Be direct and firm.

      • Grace says:

        Eve is right. If you want to know something just ask. We get so lost in our own thoughts, feelings and bewilderment we forget that WE HAVE A RIGHT TO ASK!!

        Why do THEY (whoever THEY are) get to call all the shots? Stand up for yourselves!

    • Nicole says:

      Robin,

      You said you really don’t want to have any contact with either one of them. You answered your own question. You are not obligated to answer her texts. You say you think she wants to rub it in your face, but you also say she is being friendly. Sounds like she has an ulterior motive to me. Would YOU want to be friends with your husband’s mistress? I mean she is still with him, so what does that tell you? She has chosen him, and probably thinks she can control the situation by keeping tabs on you.

      You can ask her why, but will you believe her answer? This woman is not your friend. The fact that she is still with her husband says that she does not clearly see him as the problem in their marriage.

      • Eve says:

        She could have a dozen reasons and we can’t mind read, most people don’t expect a direct challenge/question.

        You can either block/ignore her attempts at communication or if you want to know why – ask. Whether you believe her or not is another issue.

  28. robin says:

    well against my better judgement, i spoke to the mm wife yesterday. she told me she wanted some closure, and she felt the best way for her to get it was to know the truth. she said she could not depend on him to give her the truth so she figured that i would. i told her i would tell her anything she wanted to know. i was completely honest with her. we ended up talking for over an over before he came home and got really upset at her for talking to me. i told her everything that had transpired between the two of us. she was hurt, but she thanked me for being so upfront and honest with her. i told her that if i was in the same situation that she was in that i would want to know the truth also, to help me make up my mind on whether i would forgive him or divorce him. i really do not know what is going to happen between the two of them, but at least now she knows the real him and what type of man she is really married to and not just the act he puts on for her. i am thankful for our conversation yesterday, it has helped me move on. now i have another mm trying to move in and take his place. this experiance has really taught me a lesson, and i informed him to just go home and figure out what it is he really wants, because he is not going to have a chance to get it from me. i think i am cursed, i seem to be able to pick up a man at the drop of a hat, to bad they are usually married. i have to figure out what it is about me that attracts the wrong type of man. oh well , you live and learn. and i really got taught a lesson these past few weeks.

  29. Oana says:

    I’m not an english speaker so I just hope I make myself understood.
    I’m posting here as I am the GIRLFRIEND who’s been cheeted on! His betrayal and the OW courage to face me as his partner now are the most hurtfull things I have ever, ever lived. I am feeling so humiliated and disrepected by both of them, that I have not enough words to tell. I have read this post as I wanted to know what the OW, in general, has in her mind when she low herself so much in front of a man to put herself at least from the beginig of their adventure, as a second priority. My problems in relationship with him WAS OURS! Now she is happy that she has him and I’m wondering if she question herself how she demonstrate to him how much she was not respecting other woman (me), meaning her feminine group! She is a woman, too so she should respect herself and other woman more than man. I’m not angry with her – I’m sorry for her more than I am for me.
    I apologise if I make anybody upset with my words, but I wanted to put here the other side view, also. Congratulation to all of woman that love themself so much, that they are seeking healing.
    Bless you, all!

  30. robin says:

    well, i am here again to say that most of my wounds have healed. i have moved on and found someone else(that is not married). i just wanted to let oana know from the view of someone who was the ow that yes i knew the man i was with was married but was duped into believing that the relationship with her was over. by the time i realized it was not i was already to emotionally invoved and could not let go. i needed what i thought he could give me. well i was wrong on so many levels.i took an emotional beating. well i am over him and, even though his wife still contacts me trying to be friendly, i have found someone who adores me and i am gonna let him shower me with affection. i have realized that even if i had stayed with the mm and he would have left his wife for me, that i would have always wondered if he was doing the same thing to me. the ow he is with now should think about that. i do believe that this experiance has made me a stronger and more complete person. i love myself more now and respect myself now. i will never knowingly date another mm again. i am worthy of so much more. well i just wanted to thank

  31. robin says:

    you natalie for allowing me to post my feelings and get out all of my emotions. it helped me get over all of the stuff i was feeling

  32. Peggy says:

    Years ago, I fell in love with a MM and we had a three-year relationship. I eventually ended it because of the feelings of guilt, emptiness and self-loathing it created in me. A couple of years ago, he contacted me, and boom– we started up the relationship again almost immediately. He has always felt like my “soul mate” and I truly do believe he loves me. Still, I have so many varying emotions toward him. Since we’ve been back together, he has been telling me on an almost daily basis that he wants to leave his wife and marry me. He never said this the first time we were together– now, he says he realizes he is meant to be with me and he says he is working toward that. He says I am his best friend. He talks of the future all the time– how happy we will be, and how he will do this in a way that is as kind as possible to his wife. But lately I think he is full of B.S. His timeline keeps shifting due to various family crises he is having– originally he was planning to leave to be with me this summer; then it shifted to next winter; and now it’s a more general “at some time in the future.” Recently we spent a full weekend together and it was during that time, that I realized what I’m missing in this relationship. He isn’t mine– he is hers. He gives me crumbs. When I had a weekend with him, doing normal things, living like a normal couple, I realized I am missing out on all of those moments. I will probably never have that with him and I am sure he is lying to me every bit as much as he’s lying to his wife. Maybe I am just at a low point right now but I’m awfully depressed about this situation and I’m starting to hate myself. Right now he’s home with his wife, doing whatever, and here I am by myself. I feel like an idiot.

    • momof2 says:

      Wow Peggy, I am in much the same situation. I was the OW for 3 years a loooong time ago, the 80s. I was able to leave him, get married, and have kids, with the help of therapy, and full no contact. Fast forward to last October, I saw the opportunity to contact him again, he responded, and we now email every day. We live in different states, but close enough. He’s still married to the same woman..but now says the marriage is “companionship”, and he’s too old to make a change. I feel like an idiot for getting involved with him again, but look forward to talking to him just as much as being with him before. I feel like you do, that he really is my soul mate, but know we will never be together. I’ve turned in to a great actress around my husband, he doesn’t deserve to be treated like this either. I’ve decided my only choice is to get back in to therapy, but it makes me incredilbly sad to go no contact. As this stage of our lives, I know that when I do, the next contact will be seeing his obit in the paper.

      • Dawn says:

        @ Momof2,
        I know how you feel-it’s so hard letting go of someone that you feel such a connection with. It’s so good that you see that it’s best if you cut contact with him as much as it hurts. Going back to theraphy will help. It’s helped me alot in my journey. I pray for you during your journey and that you will find peace.

    • Dawn says:

      @ Peggy,
      You are in a tough situation -I feel for you. I can’t blame you for feeling that he is probably lying to you and could just be stringing you along. Or maybe he just feels so guilty about hurting his wife and can’t find a way to leave her because he doesn’t want to hurt her and doesn’t know how to handle that. Thing is when you involve yourself with someone that is still married you just will never know if what he’s saying is the truth or not until he leaves her. And that is not a healthy place to be (I know- I been there). I wish you the very best in your journey. Bless you.

  33. annie says:

    ive been the OW for about 4 months now. the guy is my best friend (he was my best friend before all of this), and he has been with his girlfriend for about 9 months now. we always had a bit of an interest in each other, but wanted to keep it platonic.

    i went through a bad breakup from an abusive relationship, and he was always there for me as a friend. then we began falling asleep together and just cuddling, which we knew wasnt right, but justified it by saying it was a means of comfort. a few weeks ago while we were sleeping, we began touching each other over our clothing. neither of us were fully awake, it was just happening as we were dozing in and out of sleep – seemingly as a drunken state, yet we were completely sober. the next day we talked about how that was a bit too far, and we cant let it happen again.

    two weekends ago, we were camping (just the two of us) after much debate on whether or not it was a good idea. we gave in, and promised each other that nothing would happen. sure enough, as we were sleeping, we began touching each again. it was the same drunken, half asleep feeling, which ended with both of us masturbating. the next morning was awkward for a bit, we both felt terrible but we put it behind and went back to acting as friends.

    last weekend he stayed over again, and absolutely nothing happened. although we kept waking up together in the half-asleep/drunk feeling state, we cuddled and that was it, so we thought ok good! we can do this!

    then last night, we ended up having sex on 4 different occasions throughout our sleep. up until this point, we had never even kissed, just touched each other and ourselves. we always seem to wake up at the same moments when we sleep together and this time we just naturally went for a kiss and it led to a lot more. we have been talking this morning since he left, and we both know the other person is not entirely ok with what happened. what adds to it, is that as usual, we we were both so half asleep that we are still trying to piece together the details of everything that happened.

    obviously i am still the OW, and it is still cheating, but since we are best friends the situation seems different. what confuses me is that i have never gone into this dreamlike/drunken feeling/half asleep state with anybody ever, and neither has he. yet it happens every single time we sleep together.

    help?!!

    • Dawn says:

      @Annie,
      With all due respect (and speaking as a former OW myself) do yourself a big favor and stop seeing this guy until he figures if he is going to stay with his gf or leave her.

    • Grace says:

      er, stop sleeping with him?

  34. Elle says:

    Might be a way of having cognitive dissonance – ie keeping in that dreamy state because if you were actually ‘with it’, you’d both have too much shame and a sense of what’s socially and morally right, to actually go through with it. I don’t say this on my high horse – I assure you, I have some history too! – but I just think that by putting yourself in situations where you are sleeping with each other (ie lying physically with each other), you’re setting yourselves up for behaviour that would take a whole lot of willpower to stop…By choosing to sleep together, in that ACT, you’re already deciding that you’re open to something happening (no matter what you SAY to each other), and while you’re in that dreamy state, you can almost pretend it didn’t happen or that the same rules don’t apply. But they do, unfortunately. At some point, I suspect your feelings will catch up with you and you’ll either start to find it unappealing – ie that he is treating his girlfriend with so little dignity – or just wrong according to your own standards and not a scene you want to be involved in. For the sake of the best friendship, I’d get out of this situation. If it’s meant to be between you, it will happen when you’re both single. If you want to remain friends, it’s better that you have the boundaries of friends before one of you starts to have non-friend expectations. I just can’t see how this is going to end well otherwise.
    Good luck.

My Book - Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl

Stop believing that you did something to make them unavailable or that their inadequacies are down to your inadequacies - it is not about you; they are unavailable!

My Book - Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl

Stop believing that you did something to make them unavailable or that their inadequacies are down to your inadequacies - it is not about you; they are unavailable!
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