Jan asks: I met “Ryan, 35” on Tinder and we hit it off right away. Within a few dates, I asked why a guy like him (handsome, smart and funny) would be online and he admitted that his wife had died of ovarian cancer two years before. I took his baggage into consideration as our relationship progressed because I felt that our connection was too good to pass up. This meant giving up stuff like him spending the night at my house regularly and I wasn’t invited to his. He attended therapy twice a week to “move on” and “get over the guilt he had felt for her passing and him moving on.” With trouble, I let this go.
Within six months, he told me he loved me and that I was the love of his life. Our connection and feelings were something I’ve never felt before. We discussed moving in together and set a goal of Christmas. He met my family, my friends, but I had never met his. Maybe this was stupid and my fault, but I kept thinking, Well, they live in another state, so whats the big deal? I also rationalised that like me, he doesn’t have many close friends in the area. I kept brushing away my unease.
After 15 months, I snooped by entering his email into Facebook and discovered a completely different person—same photos, different name. His name is Brian. I was stunned. He came clean and admitted that he’d made up the entire story. Separated for two years and a father of two, his family, friends and therapist had no idea I existed! My conversations with ‘them’ were fabricated. I believed his story—who was I to question it? I believe that people are kind and good. I believed that people do not lie about death and cancer. Ultimately, after planning my life with him, I am shattered and devastated to know that I do not even know this person. Nor does the person I love even exist. So here I am, trying to recover and move on, but its so difficult because I can’t separate the “Ryan” that I knew and loved from the Brian, who manipulated and lied to me over 15 months. Natalie, I am at a loss. What do I do? How do I move on? And how do I not hate myself for letting this happen? I fear I will never trust anyone again. Have you heard of anything such as this?
*********************
Jan, I understand how deeply painful the revelation of this deception must be for you but you are being way too hard on yourself. You are failing to recognise that he’s a con artist. His actions are what has in recent years become known as being ‘catfished’—this is where someone sets up a fake identity (typically on Facebook but not limited to there) to trick you into being in a relationship. There’s even a show about it on MTV (Catfish) and what you have experienced is far from being unusual in a world where you can effectively be whoever you want to be with the right social media account and technology at your disposal.
He told a series of lies that were plausible when put together. In a different context, you might have felt extra suspicious. To be plausible, a lie has to have a grain or few of possible truths. When the recipient of the lie has doubts due to what might seem more obvious lies, it’s the plausibility of the original lie that causes them to vacillate between doubting and believing.
He’s ensured that he’s told the kind of lie that typically causes doubters to feel guilty for even momentary suspicion, repeatedly overriding their judgement and their fight/flight response, in turn making it even easier for other lies to slip through, after all, if someone’s a widower who feels guilty about moving on, you’ll convince yourself that he’s finding the right moment to introduce you to his friends, that he’s worried about alienating his family, that the home they shared is full of memories, and that each time you sleep together, that he’s haunted by his dead wife.
Most people don’t fabricate dead spouses in order to lead a double life or get laid– They just tell you that they’re really into you, intimate or promise that they’ll leave, it’s just, ‘You know [their] situation’ and ‘Be patient’ etc. While this version of events would undoubtedly still be crappy, at least you wouldn’t be robbed of your right to choose. This guy is pretty twisted. He couldn’t just cheat; he had to garner sympathy and let you believe that his sock puppets were real people. I don’t know what the hell he talks about with his therapist but he needs to start with his deep-seated issues with women.
From the outset you were a bit dazzled. You querying why a “guy like him” would be online, hints at your pinch-yourself luck at having met him. Brian or whatever the frick he’s calling himself right now, has taken advantage of what can be a rather dangerous cocktail of being too nice, non-confrontational and a little naive. You’re not alone—lots of people who are of the people pleasing inclination are exactly this way. We—yes I am a reformed pleaser—misuse our good qualities and invest them in the wrong people, often overriding our gut out of fear of looking ‘rude’, ‘mean’, ‘demanding’ and other such things that we’re definitely not in any danger of becoming.
You also have your moral outlook and expect people to think, feel and behave similarly, and this sets you up for pain because instead of acknowledging the truth, you opt to hold onto the illusion that everyone is operating off of the same rule book.
Being mad at you for being conned isn’t fair or reasonable, but I suspect that where your anger really stems from is recognising that you’d picked up on clues but didn’t act on them. You gave up basics in the relationship and missed what you in retrospect recognise as opt-out points because you kept denying, rationalising and minimising your concerns along with making excuses for him. You wanted to believe that this man existed and that he was going to come through. When he revealed his so-called backstory, whatever gut responses you’d felt at that point got pushed down and he fit a picture in your head. As time passed, you didn’t want to believe what you suspected deep down.
When you finally looked him up, it’s because you were ready for the truth. It’s the old adage that the truth hurts but it will also set you free.
It’s important to acknowledge that regardless of an any overriding of concerns or due diligence skipped, this man repeatedly manipulated you. I can’t overstate this enough: you were conned. Sure, there are things that you can learn from this experience for your own safety and well-being and there is that natural period of anger, blame and shame that follows, but you, as someone who recognises that people are kind and good, must surely recognise that there are many people who have been victims of other people’s shadiness and I doubt you blame them for what happened. Have some compassion for you.
You trusted him too much because you did not trust yourself enough. There may have been an element of loneliness and so when this man who at the same time as saying how guilty he felt about his wife’s passing was telling you within months that you were the “love of his life”, you soaked it up.
This connection you felt between you represented really all the things not being said or done. There’s an almost electricity that can come about when there’s an energy between two people that’s based on an unacknowledged deceit and illusion.
The world has lots of good and kind people in it and most people would not do what this man has done, but some people would. You don’t need to harden up against the world but you needed to lose your moral outlook blind spot.
You are someone who would not lie about cancer and death nor would you pretend to be someone else, but acknowledging that people are different means that you gather evidence based on who people are, not on who you are.
When you get it down on paper about exactly what ‘Ryan’ did to earn your trust, you will see that there isn’t anything concrete on there. You are a good, loving woman but you sacrificed yourself and the relationship you needed for a ‘connection’ and what you truly needed was consistent actions. It’s much harder to be misled by a combination of consistent and congruent actions, mentality and feelings. It’s all too easy to project what we want to on to feelings and call it a ‘connection’, whereas with actions, mentality and feelings working together, we co-create.
It’s OK to admit that you lied to yourself about this man. We have all done this at one point or another in our quest to be liked and loved.
If this experience has awakened you to the need to give you more than just feelings and to take care of you by reining in your people pleaser and by doing due diligence, this relationship has done its job.
Often it is only through what are at the time, deeply painful experiences, that we are forced to confront feelings and truths that we run from. When you recognise the journey that you made to the point of meeting him, you will see that a series of earlier experiences led you to this one. You are likely to find that there are similarities in this connection you had with ‘Ryan’ to someone else in your past hence why you’re finding it difficult to reconcile the illusion with the truth.
It’s understandable to be guarded now but the answer isn’t to erect a wall but to take the time to go to therapy so that you can forgive you by having compassion and developing healthier boundaries so that you can move forward with trust and the ability to do due diligence in future.
Any relationship that keeps bringing up doubts is a relationship that’s asking you to do your checks and balances before proceeding. Never ignore your gut no matter what story anyone has told you.
Have you been catfished or duped? How would you begin to recover from this situation?
Each Wednesday, I help a reader to solve a dilemma. To submit a question, please email advicewednesdayAT baggagereclaim.com. If you would prefer your question to be featured on the podcast, drop a line to podcast AT baggagereclaim.com. Keep questions below 200 words.
I’ve been catfished a few times, but after reading your blog, etc. for the last three years, now I can smell a catfish within three days. The only people pleasing I do now is for myself.
The most recent one I’d been texting for a week or so, but she gave a lot of mixed signals so I just came out with it: It’s time to talk on the phone so I know you are who you say you are.
We talked that evening for an hour, but toward the end we had a political disagreement and she revealed a hair trigger temper. I got off that phone asap. That was two huge red flags in one call. After that, she went back to texting only, so I said, “Look, I’ve told you I hate texting, so just call if you want to talk.” She said okay but did not call. She continued texting, though.
I suspect in her case she preferred texting because it’s harder to tell when someone is drunk.
One of the last times she texted me, I said, “Your words and actions don’t match, and I’ve already stated my preference for talking instead of texting. I am not responding to any more texts.”
Her excuse for not calling was that she got wrapped up playing some Dragon Game online.
I was so over it by then I said, “Eff your effing dragons. If playing computer games is that much of a priority, then include me OUT.” Then she text replied and said, “eff you” and that she didn’t respond well to ultimatums.
I didn’t text back. Two days later she texted an apology. I avoided the temptation of replying with a long list of grievances and why I was finished with her, so instead I replied hours later, “Thank you. Have a good Christmas and a happy new year.” She replied “Ditto.” That was that.
The best part is I had no residual regrets. She revealed who she was to me and I believed her. No more assclowns for me. 😀
Adele
on 16/12/2016 at 3:52 pm
That was awesome, you handled yourself so well, did not take the bait and could end it feeling dignity preserved. What I also liked is you kept giving the other person every chance to show up the next time as a decent human being. You went out on top. That is how it is done!
Jennifer
on 18/12/2016 at 12:19 am
Karen,
Holy well done. You are my heroine right none. Done with sass and class.
I still vacillate between being contentious and people pleasing.
Lily
on 15/12/2016 at 1:42 am
I had a similar experience in recent years and it was very difficult to move past. Even now two years later I sometimes struggle with it. He was so romantic and perfect until things turned and the truth came out Once I realized the truth about who he was: a lier, user and manipulating cheater, I told him off and he disappeared. I felt bad and apologized but he was just mean after that. I suppose that his narcissism wouldn’t allow him to just apologize.
It took all the strength I had to move on from this and get well. And sometimes I still struggle to be honest. But no contact and working on myself has really helped. When I feel myself replaying sadness and anger over it, I try to turn my thoughts to myself, my life and my future. Think about what you can do to have an even better life than you ever would’ve with this loser. And try to laugh about him one day. He must be a pretty pathetic person with bad relationships if he can treat someone this way.
Most importantly: don’t beat yourself up! We all get duped by losers at some point in this life. And we all make mistakes. But at least you are putting yourself out there and being positive and loving.
Magpie
on 15/12/2016 at 8:46 am
Add to that final line, and being ‘self-protected’ – seriously for some of these manipulative/exploitative types, a ‘positive and loving’ woman, as you put it, is catnip for their nastiness.
Healing
on 15/12/2016 at 11:00 pm
Yes! I read something about a year ago and it really stuck in my brain – I wrote it down –
“once people replace the destructive legacy of traditional psychology — i.e., that everyone is almost always struggling with fears or insecurities — with a mindset that life is far more about people maneuvering and angling for the things they want than it is about them “running,” and once they realize that there’s a class of individuals best characterized as unscrupulous and exploitive fighters who will advance their own agendas with almost complete disregard for the needs of others, they arrive at a position to avoid being taken advantage of in the future.”
It’s self-protective to remember this. I was the naive, conflict avoidant, benefit of the doubt giver before and I got taken advantage of, a lot! No more. Now I think about agendas, theirs and mine.
Jennifer
on 18/12/2016 at 12:31 am
Healing,
Your comment contains so much intense wisdom.
It wasn’t long ago that I realized people, all people, are basically operating on their own agenda. There is this inherent self-preservation aspect that none of us can get away from in living autonomously.
It was like a bright light when I realized that it was okay to assess situations on whether it was best for me even if someone else didn’t get what they wanted.
I was taught to be forever quiet, forgiving, and sacrificial. Obviously this does not work. I just ended up a target for abusers.
It’s interesting the one person who taught me to be so submissive was my grandmother. Recently, I was called to her home while my grandfather was having one of his abusive tirades; my grandmother pretended to be asleep. I diffused the situation and went home thinking, I grew up in this? Explains a lot.
Jennifer
on 18/12/2016 at 12:46 am
Healing,
Weird, I thought diffuse meant “put out”. Anyhow, what I meant to say is that I calmed the situation and left.
Jennifer
on 18/12/2016 at 12:48 am
Healing,
Defuse! Hot damn. Learn something new everyday. (I love words.)
Magpie
on 19/12/2016 at 8:01 pm
And an added bonus to thinking about people having agendas and their behaviour reflecting their desires etc is that we’re less likely to be blame absorbers if we see that (as Nat says all the time) not everything that happens to us is because of us, not everyone thinks and sees the world the same way we do.
Sometimes these manipulative types can even teach us to look out for own interests better.
Hope
on 15/12/2016 at 2:19 am
Every time the phrase ” why are they single, they’re good looking, smart and funny” comes up I know something’s going to go wrong.
Being single doesn’t mean you don’t possess good looks or an interesting personality. Being single is just that, being single. No one is above being single.
I’ve definitely learned that lesson.
Jennifer
on 18/12/2016 at 1:57 am
Hope,
I really loved this. It is so strange to me how people stigmatize being single as a bad thing.
Cindy
on 21/12/2016 at 12:38 am
It’s crazy, isn’t it, Jennifer & Hope. I’ve had people say to me in the past – “You’re attractive – why aren’t you married?” Like that’s the only goal, the only path in life, and that somehow being attractive is even more reason to take that path… Very limited (and limiting) belief systems on their part… They’re saying there must be something wrong with you if you’re not partnered up… 🙁
Hope
on 24/12/2016 at 12:35 am
That was my experience too Cindy. When someone would say I’m too *whatever* to be single it immediately made me feel like something was wrong with me. It also made me feel if something is wrong with me then something must be wrong with all single people and I didn’t want to be in that group. It wasn’t until I got into an actual relationship that I realized I am no different than anyone single or not. I have a friend who’s going through this now and I try to help her understand nothing is wrong with her but she doesn’t see it yet. It makes me feel bad because I know where she’s coming from. It’s a scary mind frame
Noquay
on 15/12/2016 at 2:23 am
I was an attempted catfish victim three times whilst trying on line dating. I got so good at dissing them out that one site asked me to be a monitor for them. There were the obvious ones and then those who used identities of actual folk in their profile so if you checked on them, they exist. Thing is, the various parts don’t add up. One dude or dudette used the id of a Swedish businessman that exists yet the writing was inconsistent with a scandinavian who’d been here for decades and very consistent with a Nigerian or Ghanaian not adept in English. This dude was a millionaire, had wonderful kids, looked like a million bucks who lived in a region swarming with high end successful women. Why be on line? Some inconsistencies I found:
If he’s too good to be true, he is. Stunningly attractive folk don’t need to meet folk on line which in my age range anyway, is populated by average and below average guys
Disconnect between speech/writing and purported socioeconomic level or occupation. If the person claims to have a high end job yet writes and speaks like a third grader, there’s a problem
Unusual references to God and that God means for you to be together. Nope, God means for you to pay attention. Also seriously God fearing folk in places like ski resort towns known for party atmospheres; doesn’t happen
Inability to locate the persons business, etc, stuff they claimed on line. If you are self employed, you must advertise and be able to be contacted
Cindy
on 15/12/2016 at 4:52 am
Noquay, I’m pretty good at sniffing them out too. Your comment, “Unusual references to God and that God means for you to be together. Nope, God means for you to pay attention” rang a bell for me. I made a comment on the Baggage Reclaim Facebook Page, and some guy replied that God would find someone for me. I thought I was in the group, not on the public page, so I thanked him. I immediately got a message from him – “Hi Cindy, how are you?” I just thought – oh, yuk!!! Then I looked back and realised I was on the public page. When I didn’t reply to him, he deleted his comment on the page. They must be just trolling all the pages where they think there will be vulnerable women. It’s sick-making!
MJ
on 15/12/2016 at 3:10 am
Can someone explain why this guy even felt the need to do this? He was separated right? So what that he had 2 kids? What is there to hide? Why go to such elaborate lengths to cover up the truth? It’s not as if he was a serial killer! Or is this guy just a pathological liar?
I too have been “catfished” a few times, but most of the time the guy was not willing to meet. That is how you know they aren’t who they say they are. I have never had a case like this though, where anything went on for any length of time. But so many men are pathological liars– perhaps not to the extent of “Ryan,” “Brian,” or whatever his real name is! However, it’s very difficult for women today because there is so much of this crap going on and SO many ways for men to deceive you. It’s sad!
Cindy
on 15/12/2016 at 4:55 am
MJ – he did it because he could. Because he’s a sociopath, and loves the thrill of the lie and having a secret life. In other words, he’s damaged goods – a rather pathetic person who must have a wretched inner life. I find it incredibly sad, and always wonder what sort of childhood these people had… 🙁
Noquay
on 15/12/2016 at 2:29 pm
This person sounded like someone who wants romantic attention yet cannot achieve it being who they actually are. Separated (still married) with kids are things that would send a lot of women running for the hills and ought to. Some folk who catfish women aren’t even men and feel trapped in awful marriages/lives, are often unattractive or lack social skills. The Swedish imposter I wrote about had to be someone who was a recent immigrant yet lived in that area. After I reported them, they posted the same profile but with a different photo and description; not very smart. Some are scammers out for money who tend to target middle aged or older women who appear successful, the last group are guys who were hurt in the past and do this as a sort of collective revenge against women. Less social media and more insight/therapy needed there.
Cindy
on 15/12/2016 at 5:12 am
Jan, you are one lucky woman! You’re the one who got away… Did you give him any money, or was it all about the game for him? Please learn from this, and trust your own intuition – THAT is how you move on. You say, “Thank goodness I’m still alive, and I haven’t lost anything but a few months of my time and energy. I’m going to listen to myself and stop projecting my own goodness onto others. I will work at seeing people as they are, and not how I want them to be…”
And you can stop beating yourself up, because this person was/is a skilled sociopathic liar. And it’s not just due to social media, because I met someone just like him in a pub one night before the internet was even invented. I got the full treatment too, and he told me he had a flatmate, and I knew where he lived (the part truth). One night after we’d been out, I had a strong intuition about him and decided to drive to his house and confront him about it. His ‘flatmate’ answered the door, and I told her who I was and she told me she was his wife. Then she asked me in, because she’d been suspicious of his behaviour for some time. We chatted for ages (he’d seen my car there and drove past instead of coming in).
Anyway, I asked her if she’d like to go for a drink, and she came with me to my apartment, where we found him parked outside, waiting for me to get home. It was her car, so she took out the keys and we went inside. My flatmate couldn’t believe she was Edwards fiance (not wife, but getting married the next month). He’d even told me a story about his dog dying, and she told me that was *her* dog. She’d caught him several times at the pub, all over some woman, yet she still planned to marry him – because “who else am I going to meet?’
It can happen to anyone, and I think you (and I) had a lucky escape. Imagine being married to someone like that? Now you can work on your self-esteem so you love yourself enough to believe in yourself, and you will stop accepting (or even attracting) those damaged people. It’s all about energy, and when we have victim/prey energy, these abusers latch onto it – they pick it up on their little sociopathic antennae…
Magpie
on 15/12/2016 at 8:44 am
Excellent response from Nat, with a lot of helpful insight that’s useful for us all. My feeling is that part of the reason (part) why Jan feels so hurt is that she made the mistake of doing two things: first, thinking that this amazing, fantastic man etc was so much better than her (why was someone like him online?) and then linking it to her self-esteem, so that when she found out he was a monumental fake she took it as a hit to her sense of worth. Second, she blames herself for her needs, that he saw as neediness as exploited. Hopefully with time, she’ll come to laugh at this situation – I mean, this is an extraordinary example of fraud for him to have done this for 15 months – but in the mean time, I’d also suggest she see a therapist to manage her reactions that could end up harming her.
Men of this kind, and yes I lived with a version of the same for many years and lost myself to the destructive aspects of the relationship, love the way we mirror back an idealised version of their selves, but also ‘hate’ us for our stupidity. They’re bad news, to put it mildly, so even though it hurts now I’m so happy she found out now before she moved in with him, or married him. He has serious problems and those problems are not your responsibility to fix. Steer clear.
Sallysue
on 15/12/2016 at 1:05 pm
It’s great you got out before he moved in. If he would have moved in. Like Nat said you were ready for the truth and thankfully you got it before investing anymore. I can’t help but wonder what his end game was. I thought the purpose of catfishing was to get money out of people. What would he have gained from continuing the lie? Anyway he is clearly a very sick individual. I’m so glad you got away from him before you got any deeper into it.
Jennifer
on 17/12/2016 at 9:48 am
No, no, no; I don’t think it’s money they want. Some people get off on deceit, which I do not understand because the pinnacle of life is to know one’s-self and truly be known, loved, and accepted by worthwhile people (and thyself) in spite of unpleasant humanness.
I’d imagine if you’re bored and you don’t have a conscience life is one big chess game and all people pawns. Lame.
Healing
on 17/12/2016 at 2:23 pm
Great observations, Jennifer. I wonder if for some it’s both. They get the feeling of power or whatever from the game and the ‘bonus’ of making a buck while they’re at it.
Jennifer
on 17/12/2016 at 11:38 pm
Healing,
What an eerie combination.
theshirelles
on 15/12/2016 at 7:31 pm
I’m a bit older. . .I would say prior to the Internet when I dated and formed other relationships in real time, catfishing *never* happened to me. Post-internet? I would say this has happened to me at least once per year, depending on how social I choose to be, *online and offline* no matter how I meet the person. Very unsafe, very unsettling — I’ve had things happen in various degrees of severity and psychopathy.
I would say the common thread in all of these experiences is, it is so much easier for people to be alternate, fake people in texts, emails, profiles etc. than in person. Sure, they can do it in person too — but the act is much harder to maintain. It’s much less effort to reel in somebody online first, then simply step into a role in person, with the other person going along.
Long stories short — be very discerning with ANY virtual communications, even with someone who is a friend from before. I would say if the person relies too much electronically and isn’t comfortable on the phone or in person, be careful.
Also, if someone seems different in person than they are online, as in, two different people that don’t match up, be careful. I’ve detected this type of behavior in now ex-friends that I had known a long time — and turns out, they were emotionally unavailable, as well. Weird how those two aspects tracked together — being EU + more likely to have and prefer alternate online and electronic personas.
Here’s another tidbit — more men and “men” than you would imagine hire services to create stories and profiles for them online. The more wealthy, successful or seem to be super-busy (e.g. no time to write a profile or email people) the less likely the person wrote the profile themselves.
How do I know? B/c I have been recruited more than once for companies that do this, to write faked profiles for “successful men” that I never met or spoke to by phone even, just given a few details! Like they were an investment banker who likes skiing and baking, or a high-profile lawyer who enjoys museums and wine tastings, for example. Beware!
Cindy
on 16/12/2016 at 12:08 pm
theshirelles – I had no idea people paid to have fake profiles written for them – or not always fake, I suppose, but ‘professional’ – like in real estate! That’s incredible!!! When I was applying online for some writing jobs, a guy wanted me to write his thesis for him – not just type it up, but write it. Totally unethical and could have got him kicked out of Uni if they’d found out. He’s probably just the sort of person who’d get a fake profile professionally written as well.
Honestly, I really think dogs are the new men (if you know what I mean). I meet dogs in the street, we have a cuddle and go our separate ways, and they only try and con you out of food… I’m losing it now, haha – time for bed!
theshirelles
on 16/12/2016 at 11:03 pm
Thanks for the perspective and sharing. Yes, when I think about and process it all together, the idea of writing fake for someone is like catfishing. A lot of these “hi-profile” types lack social skills, so those profiles are written specifically to lure women. And then they go on dates playing a roll, pretending like they wrote all that stuff, when they did not.
Like, show that they have a good wallet and can also be sensitive to women’s interests. Notice the seemingly perfect balance in a “man” who likes to ski and bake, or lawyer and drink wine, for example! It’s a fantasy, let the games begin.
Thanks for helping me realize that.
Adele
on 16/12/2016 at 3:59 pm
Yes, people put ads on job boards for freelance writers to write ads for them, many out of country for romance in various locales. I have answered what looked like legitimate ads for writing, only to find out it is to write a profile, keep ANSWERING women or men to men on a profile, and to set up various different sounding profiles for the same man. Hetero and gay men are doing this, apparently it is not unusual at all. They pay a lot less than anyone else, I only know this as you ask for the parameters of the writing job up front and the pay, and when they low-ball the pay, you realize it is not what it was supposed to be, and they start easing into the shadiness of the whole thing, it is time to say buh-bye. People lack a moral compass, and I wonder about the quality of people who keep doing this over and over again to unsuspecting real people on the other end. It is sad and pitiful.
theshirelles
on 16/12/2016 at 11:05 pm
Yes, I had pretty much the same experience — being paid to catfish. Thanks for backing me up on that. I never actually took the jobs, btw — I just submitted “screening” and “writing samples” just to see how far this would go. It’s. . .pretty far, unfortunately. Beware!
E
on 15/12/2016 at 8:52 pm
Can I just point out that some of the comments on here seem pretty insensitive towards the OP.
It’s never happened to me, as I haven’t really done online dating, but I can imagine that, if I were in thr OP’s shoes, the last thing I would want to read is a bunch of smug comments from people congratulating themselves about how great they are about spotting a catfish!
E
on 15/12/2016 at 8:54 pm
Apologies for poor editing, but I hope the general gist was conveyed.
theshirelles
on 15/12/2016 at 10:48 pm
Yeah, I got the gist, that it’s not the editing, that’s poor, it’s the gist. If it’s never happened to you, why comment on this thread anyway?
How can you judge other people willing to share their experiences as “smug”?
I personally resent *your smug* comments directly I opened up a little about dangerous situations from people catfishing.
Think before speaking, know before speaking, have experience before speaking.
I think the point of sharing is to back up the OP b/c she and all of us need to process after such a weird thing as catfishing. It’s not a normal experience but it is becoming normalized.
But wait, you don’t know that, hello? Never happened to you, right?
You can’t sympathize or even empathize b/c it hasn’t happened to you, so. . . .the gist of your comments is not only mean, but irrelevant.
Now then. . .I’d like to hear from others who can respond in a meaningful way without judgment to what has been shared.
Thanks.
Noquay
on 16/12/2016 at 3:40 am
Theshirelles
Yep, we may well be the two folk on this blog who actually listened to the Shirelles. My comments and my experiences were an attempt to help the OP and others. Just giving comfort does nothing to prevent an individual from being catfished yet again as these folk operate in a number of ways with a number of motives. Some of us will find it easier to spot them simply because we have a wider breadth of experience due to greater years or greater interactions with a wide variety of folk. It is a serious and a very common issue and yep, some are dangerous and have exacted revenge on their no longer willing victims. On line dishonesty of many stripes is why I gave it up. Was sick of having to play detective all the time and paying for the privilege. I only meet folk irl from now on; if that means being forced to be alone for a long time, so be it.
Hojay
on 16/12/2016 at 4:23 pm
I don’t understand the hostility, TheShirelles. I think E made a good point that some comments could be misconstrued as looking down on the OP for not having sniffed out the catfish sooner. I don’t think that was your or anyone’s intention – I think you just wanted to share the warning signs you have learned to detect. That’s great. But no need to ban E from voicing her concerns in this thread.
I don’t think that, just because you haven’t experienced the exact situation, you’re banned from having an opinion on it. Catfishing, bait-and-switch, whathaveyou, this is about extreme psychopathy and psychological damage done to an individual and it’s everyone’s business. In my own personal opinion, precisely BECAUSE it hasn’t happened to you, your view on the matter can be less skewed and more boundaried. I value that POV.
theshirelles
on 16/12/2016 at 5:44 pm
Wait, so, didn’t I say: Now then. . .I’d like to hear from others who can respond in a meaningful way without judgment to what has been shared.
“less skewed and more boundaried” … let’s see. . .So, where is your respect for my boundaries, eh? I specifically asked for no judgment, but your comments and “e’s” disrespect people who have been through the actual experience. That viewpoint of “skews and boundaries” is 1) primitive and 2) misses the point. There is no such thing as more or less boundaried, it’s not a measuring contest — either empathize or sympathize with a person or don’t. Online, I think it’s OK to question if a person, even on this forum is real.
But for someone who ADMITS that they can’t sympathize or empathize with something that isn’t their experience is WAYWAYWAY out of line.
Really, how dare you.
Did you respond meaningfully to MY experience?
Did you share YOUR EXPERIENCE of catfishing?
No and no.
So, where does your commentary even fit, except with your own small world? Oh right, a double opinion of something that 1) hasn’t happened to you and 2) your opinion on SPEAKING ON something that hasn’t happened to you.
I don’t appreciate hypothetical criticism of personal sharing. It takes a lot to be vulnerable in that way.
Oh wait. . .neither “e” nor “hojay” understand that, BECAUSE IT’S NOT THEIR EXPERIENCE.
Most of the comments, the majority, have been from people who have experienced this horrifiying thing happen to them.
Once again, I’d like to hear from others who can respond in a meaningful way without judgment to what has been shared.
Bye Hojay! Bye E! Bye anyone else like that!
E
on 16/12/2016 at 6:54 pm
Hojay understood what I meant, however, “smug” was a poor choice of words, for which I apologise. I was tired and probably should have waited a day to post my comment.
I don’t have experience of being catfished, true, but I have been on the receiving end of asking for advice on online communities (not just here) where some of the comments have strongly implied “you should have spotted that person X was an arsehole sooner because it’s so obvious when behaviour Y happens”.
I can’t say that those kind of comments made me feel much better about being duped.
Apologies for the unintentionally hostile way in which I expressed that.
I’ve only ever posted my own tips on how to spot arsehole/red flag behaviour by explaining that I learned the hard way, through getting duped and used by people.
Some of you obviously have excellent intuition for spotting dickheads and have learned how to spot them before they use you. Kudos!
I suppose all I meant to say was that those of us who have to get used by someone first, in order to spot the red flags, might get a little depressed from reading about other people’s excellent dickhead spotting radar.
theshirelles
on 16/12/2016 at 10:35 pm
E — *reading about* the experience of catfishing is somehow not quite as depressing as *actually being catfished* which. . .OOPS! you haven’t actually experienced!
Being excellent at spotting this experience is horrifying! And is “won” by really terrible experiences! That you haven’t even had!
How about *experiencing it for yourself*? And reporting back *your own viewpoint from experience*?
At NO POINT did I EVER state that a person should have known better! B/c that would be horrifying!
*Having experienced* catfishing, I don’t think *anyone who experienced catfishing* implied that someone should know better!
Such balls on you misunderstand people *whose experience you don’t share*!
Bye woman, bye.
For really the last time, I’d like to hear from others who can respond in a meaningful way without judgment to what has been shared.
Seriously, am I being catfished by E and hojay? This is really weird, to get this kind of rise and not *share common experiences*. I feel reeled in and spat out. . .like. . .like a hooked. . .CATFISH BAIT!
E
on 17/12/2016 at 2:08 am
I find it very odd that you seem to think that only people who can possibly empathise with the OP (and should be allowed to comment on this post) are those who have experienced the same, very specific deceit of being catfished.
I’ve been lied to before by someone, who, while he didn’t conceal his true name, left me feeling pretty stupid about a mountain of other lies that he covered up.
When I sought advice online (not on BR but another site) comments where other people discussed how they never fell for that type of behaviour
because it’s always possible to spot if you look for the key signs, really made me feel like crap.
With my initial comment I should have clarified that I didn’t think anyone was intending to have that effect – but more that it could inadvertently make the OP feel bad.
I’ve already apologised for using “smug” in my first comment, so I am finding the level of continued hostility unsettling.
Hojay
on 16/12/2016 at 10:40 pm
Wow, TheShirelles, thank you for calling me primitive.
I have been catfished before, so please keep your assumptions to yourself.
I merely tried to explain to you what E was saying, as you seemed to have taken it the wrong way. She was coming to the OP’s defense, as she saw something in the comments that might (inadvertently!) be hurtful to her. Enough said.
I have not judged your experience, why would I?
My opinion on having ones point of view skewed and being more or less boundaried than others in certain situations still stands. I have many friends who have not experienced what I have and it’s precisely why I value their input. It’s a fresh point of view that is less involved, emotional, and personal. It’s very helpful sometimes. Sorry you don’t see it that way.
That said, I was not aware there was a boundary here on your end. This is an open forum and what you would “like to hear” on here is neither here nor there. If you don’t like what you read, converse respectfully, or read elsewhere, is my personal opinion.
E, I don’t think you were smug and I don’t see why you would have to apologize for voicing your opinion on what may hurt the OP. I’m glad you kept a watchful eye.
theshirelles
on 16/12/2016 at 11:10 pm
thank you for calling me primitive — you’re welcome!
Jennifer
on 17/12/2016 at 9:21 am
I sense an incredibly strong, witty and sharp (not to mention informative) female presence behind theshirelles.
Why?
Why must a mostly women’s group be loving and supporting and kind all the time?
Can’t we be fierce and sharp and tough sometimes?
Look, ladies, life is tough, real tough for some of us, and it’s not always in order to give advice with a soft voice.
Hojay
on 17/12/2016 at 10:51 am
Jennifer, there is a difference between being witty, fierce, and sharp and being insulting, unreasonable, and dismissive due to something that wasn’t even said.
I’m all for truth telling and I don’t need to be coddled and protected from harsh truths. This was not that.
Jennifer
on 17/12/2016 at 11:35 pm
Hojay,
Ah.
I certainly did not make time to read all that was said, but your presence is still valuable here. Hoping you know that.
Jennifer
on 17/12/2016 at 11:45 pm
Hojay,
It’s also interesting that your reply to me is the very thing I need to work on at this point in my life, so thank you.
Having been a passive people pleaser most of my life, I get a bit carried away with the “I’m not gonna take anymore crap!” bit and such.
Thanks again.
theshirelles
on 16/12/2016 at 11:13 pm
As I have gotten what I needed from others who *respected my experience from their experience* and *gave me what I asked for* I am leaving this communication and thread.
Thanks to some, good riddance to others, especially those *who haven’t had the experience* or who side with same.
Buh-byeeeeeee!
Healing
on 16/12/2016 at 10:48 pm
I understood your intention, E. I do not understand the intensity of the reaction to it.
theshirelles
on 16/12/2016 at 11:11 pm
Perhaps because you can’t or don’t want to?
Healing
on 16/12/2016 at 11:24 pm
I experience you as hostile and combative. If you are looking for a fight, join a gym.
Crystal
on 17/12/2016 at 2:15 am
Shirelles,
No-one appreciates your sarcasm. There are many other places online where others might, try checking them out.
theshirelles
on 16/12/2016 at 11:08 pm
Noquay -I appreciated hearing from another “woman of a certain age,” with the same experiences. Thank you, I agree.
Hojay
on 16/12/2016 at 11:22 pm
This is not the safe and respectful tone I’ve come to appreciate on this forum. I’m very surprised and taken aback by it.
Elgie R.
on 17/12/2016 at 1:59 am
Hojay, hang in there and don’t be run off by non-civil discourse. I agree, non-civility is rare here. I love what I learn from all the civil posts here – whether I relate through experience or never had the same experience. I learn things. I have been reading here since 2012, when BR truths started hitting me in the heart with their raw realness.
But I’ve noted an uptick in trolling behavior on this forum…seemed to start around June 2016. For the uninitiated – trolling is troll, by definition, is someone who creates conflict on sites by posting messages that are particularly controversial or inflammatory, with the sole intent of provoking an emotional (read: angry) response from other users.
Sometimes the trolls insult, sometimes they play for sympathy..but something in the post rings an insincerity bell or an unnecessarily rude bell.
My theory about why trolls have appeared here is that Natalie’s success has rubbed some people the wrong way, so a site shakedown was launched. Someone in Natalie’s sphere of influence is hating on her – that is just my opinion, so…..there it is.
Hojay
on 17/12/2016 at 10:06 am
That’s an interesting theory, Elgie! Could be the site is being targeted? I also have a theory that with the general climate of Trumpers and Brexiters, people feel supported in “saying it how it is,” without understanding the difference between stating your opinion and the moral narcissism of antagonizing anyone who disagrees with you. I think many people now feel like they have a free license to insult because “that’s their opinion.”
Could also be that some people have been so hurt and insulted by that rethoric themselves, they are starting to see insult and antagonism where there is none. That’s sort of what I’ve been thinking here.
Healing
on 17/12/2016 at 2:47 pm
I noticed the uptick in Trolls around June as well. Yes, Hojay, there is a big difference in stating your opinion and, what I see as, browbeating into submission, anyone who doesn’t share it. Moral narcissism, hadn’t thought of it that way before.
Couldn’t reply above as there wasn’t a reply option.
“there is a difference between being witty, fierce, and sharp and being insulting, unreasonable, and dismissive due to something that wasn’t even said.
I’m all for truth telling and I don’t need to be coddled and protected from harsh truths. This was not that.” Totally agree. Also, I believe that sarcasm is thinly veiled anger and just the tip of the iceberg.
Claire A.
on 17/12/2016 at 4:25 pm
I don’t think it’s to do with the political climate (certainly not ’cause of Brexit LOL – we are still in a very PC culture in Britain!) because trolling has been around online for years but it could just be as someone else said – Natalie’s site has got increasingly popular so that kind of thing is likely to happen at some point.
Eli
on 17/12/2016 at 10:26 pm
I’ve noticed the trolling too, though I didn’t notice it as far back as June, but certainly over the last few months – it struck me because it was so unlike the general type of commenting on baggage reclaim.
NATALIE
on 17/12/2016 at 10:33 pm
Hello all. I’m half-asleep so I will keep this short. I’ve been away at my father’s and so had missed how things had blown up. I am glad that it’s come to an end.
There are a real mix of voices here at BR and I don’t think that it has to be saccharine tones but I would agree that the spirit, tone and direction of some of the comments is out of step with the core values of BR. As ever with something like this, it does move on and blow over because the BR tribe is very good at self-moderating. I will check in tomorrow on the comments just to make sure this is all done now. Thank you to all of you who care, not just about saying something but who care about BR. Night.
Jean
on 19/12/2016 at 7:31 pm
Hi Nataile, It’s nice to see you.
I wanted to say I think it would help a lot if the so-called OP would circle back and say what she actually feels about the comments.
You don’t really know who people are, even here when it’s supposed to feel safe, maybe it doesn’t. Maybe that’s all fake, feeling safe, who really knows? Youre really putting your trust out there for people to use how they want to.
To me it looks like the person called “E” made assumptions and an opinion about the OP but did not share until later that it was based on her own experiences. She hid behind the oP rather than own her own feelings and share them openly.
It would have helped if she had said at first like one time I was somewhere else and this i what happened. But she didn’t, she waited too long, I think. She’s the only one out of all the comments who did not share herself upfront.
Is that really fair, when the topic is catfishing, and how people share or not share online? “theshirelles” could have been nicer but there’s no nice way to address feelings that are not nice.
The other person called “theshirelles” was sharing herself like everybody else but “E” missed that and did not even share herself, just her opinion. And then it all got out of hand…I think b/c the topic is so strange. It’s easy to see why someone would be so upset by the whole thing, I think the whole point is about sharing yourself or not online.
It feels weird to share yourself and the other person not share back, which is what E did and also the OP did not share.
I think it’s just the nature of this particular topic — maybe think about having the OP share themself after the original letter and then it doesn’t feel like catfishing.
Everybody’s emotions are getting all caught up in something that may not even be real, that is what catfishing is. An illusion about caring about someone’s words on a screen that=an actual person.
Unless the OP can speak up at some point, everybody here has been catfished with fake emotions and drama that seems real because it’s in writing.
I’m sorry, that’s what I think — it’s just the topic, I don’t think it’s BR as a whole or any trolling or anything like that.
It’s always better to have the OP speak after the initial letter, otherwise everything is going to have a life of it’s own — that’s what the Internet is set up for, nobody can control it, yes there are guidelines but it’s an open forum for slightly damanged people who are hurting. The communication between such people is not going to be nice at times.
HAve a nice day.
Jennifer
on 17/12/2016 at 11:53 pm
E,
This is an interesting comment, but as Noquay pointed out, most often as adults, comfort is not good enough.
Also, it’s a huge huge congratulatory thing when a BR person ends an abusive pattern toward themselves.
By giving specific examples of how to succeed in protecting oneself the OP is able to get a detailed in depth way of how to spot traps and change behavior so none of her precious time is any more wasted.
I really didn’t detect smugness in the ladies listing their successes, just a proud (and rightly so) confidence in surviving and being able to tell about it and help.
I do think it’s a valid question you ask, though.
Possum
on 16/12/2016 at 10:08 am
Jan, I just want to say I am so sorry this happened to you, it could so easily happen to anyone..you fall in love with someone and it feels so exciting/perfect/precious/unique and it’s so easy to push aside little niggling doubts because you don’t want to leave the perfect love bubble.. Im sure most baggage claim readers including myself have been swept away in a fantasy relationship that eventually revealed itself to be a farce on varying degrees… that pathological liar certainly takes the cake though! You were the unfortunate victim this time and I’m sure there have been/will be many more. I hope you find lots of authenticity now on and in the future
Jennifer
on 17/12/2016 at 2:45 am
Jan Jan Jan
Not all people are kind and good. In fact I find not a lot are. But I know some and I appreciate them (now) to the moon and back.
First off, no one is perfect and everyone makes at least a few big mistakes. (Humans are the most predatory species to other animals and earth the planet has known thus far btw–the trick is you must learn to choose only aware people to be close to, thus you must become aware yourself.)
People are going to break your heart; you don’t have to let them do it repeatedly.
That said, these man’s lies are truly something else. If it weren’t for your pain, this would be comical. This guy’s behavior was way out there.
Why be upset with yourself? You didn’t create an avatar of yourself and send that on dates. You were tricked. You were fooled. You were betrayed. Happens to us all at some point. The taking is to become wiser and listen to the signs that point to walking away.
No contact this guy stat if you already have not.
It’s a cold, cold world out there, but it’s also quite beautiful if you learn to protect yourself. Read Natalie’s Mr Unavalible and the Fallbackgirl and then her new one about love, care, trust and respect.
As for having the connection, I have an other worldly connection to a pair of boots online; I think about them all the time, cry that they aren’t mine and so forth. Will I buy the damn boots? Nope. They would prevent me from paying my rent, so boots will not be bought.
You have to learn to check your desires and get your priorities straight — you first — the dating only if you can do it without passivity and false hopes.
There are plenty of things we want, crave, have feelings for that are not the best for us and time before mind humans have indulged themselves in desires to their demise.
It’s about meeting your basic needs as best you can and learning to never sacrifice your safety nor self-esteem for a man.
What a silly, strange guy.
LizB
on 18/12/2016 at 2:42 am
I’m not sure I’ve been catfished by my fwb. Things have not been adding up for a while. The latest being his neighbour called him by his previous name (he told me he’d changed it before he moved here so I thought this was odd).
He goes to elaborate lengths to avoid being found by his psycho ex, but still effectively pokes her with a virtual stick every now and then. He was the victim of dv but lately I wonder who the actual abuser in their relationship was. He denies the poking but I see it for what it is. He’s tried to do it to me too but I don’t play that game.
We are now just friends – the fwb situation had become just texts and sex and I said that wasn’t enough. He said what I was asking for (basically also being friends like we used to before we started having sex) was a wake-up call to a relationship (?!) and he isn’t ready/in a position/doesn’t have time for a relationship.
It’s 6 weeks later and he’s just introduced me to ‘woman friend’ he’s met off PoF, and his kids seem to know her quite well already. I was a bit stunned, it felt like a “and here’s what you could have won” kind of moment. Sigh. I know now he’s not right for me and I shouldn’t get into a relationship with him anyway, however, I still feel a little used.
G.G.S.
on 18/12/2016 at 3:54 am
Just going to add to the chorus of been there dodged that. It is sad ,embarrassing, frustrating, disappointing, and anger inducing all at once. It’s very much like whip lash when ones finds out. You have to get through shock of it. It’s also very hard to explain to family and friends the story.
Mine was cheating so it’s not like he was even purposely depriving me he couldn’t logistically sped more time etc on or with me. That must be extra pain.
Imagine when you are upset what a nightmare it would have been to somehow continue and find out later to have it ruin more of your life. He’s a pathetic coward though. Imagine how messed up you have to be in your head to do that to another person. Sad. If they weren’t harming others I’d feel sorry for them.
I agree with Natalie – we need to be vigilant of anything that does not seem ‘right’ or seems ‘off’ NO MATTER how much we love the person or want to be in a relationship with them. Ignoring those flags will eventually come stabbing us in a back! There are plenty of situations like this and unfortunately the reasons they exist is because the other party chose to ignore the signs.
Rachel (lupie)
on 19/12/2016 at 11:10 am
Hey Jan and BR family,
Sorry for arriving late to the party!
Jan, I’ve been trolled twice via online dating sites now and I can honestly say no matter how big or small the deception, it still hurts to think that someone could deceive and lie so easily.
First time it happened, was with a soldier I’d met online. He told me he had never been married and had no kids. Six months later, after he’d been deployed for 2-3 months in Afghan, I find out via Facebook (he told me he didn’t have an account), that he was indeed married with 2 young daughters. He last year apologised for this, and his wife recently contacted me asking me if I’m still seeing her husband because they’ve recently had a baby boy. Massive kick in the teeth for me considering I genuinely believed that I would eventually be his wife and mother of our kids. I politely advised her that I haven’t had any contact with him for several months and blocked/deleted her number.
Last summer, I was catfished again with a fella I’d me on Tinder and had been speaking to for a couple of weeks. When we finally arranged to meet, a completely different man turned up. Scared the sweet Jesus out of me! The only thing both men had in common was the fact that they were both black and bearded. I then proceeded to lose my shit in the middle of a busy bar, tipped the wine he just bought me over his head and stormed out.
Moral of the story? I always approach online dating with extreme caution, and I am always dubious of any man I talk to online. I find that having an extended period of communication helps, e.g. once offline I like to keep consistent comms going for at least 2 weeks before meeting in person. That includes regular phone calls and exchange of photos (no nudes) also. It’s no guarantee that you won’t be catfished again, but it definitely can help. Unfortunately, there are losers out there who will do these things because they have no morals, and believe such behaviour is OK.
Chin up Jan, it’s Christmas which means a new year awaits full of fresh opportunities! x
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I’ve been catfished a few times, but after reading your blog, etc. for the last three years, now I can smell a catfish within three days. The only people pleasing I do now is for myself.
The most recent one I’d been texting for a week or so, but she gave a lot of mixed signals so I just came out with it: It’s time to talk on the phone so I know you are who you say you are.
We talked that evening for an hour, but toward the end we had a political disagreement and she revealed a hair trigger temper. I got off that phone asap. That was two huge red flags in one call. After that, she went back to texting only, so I said, “Look, I’ve told you I hate texting, so just call if you want to talk.” She said okay but did not call. She continued texting, though.
I suspect in her case she preferred texting because it’s harder to tell when someone is drunk.
One of the last times she texted me, I said, “Your words and actions don’t match, and I’ve already stated my preference for talking instead of texting. I am not responding to any more texts.”
Her excuse for not calling was that she got wrapped up playing some Dragon Game online.
I was so over it by then I said, “Eff your effing dragons. If playing computer games is that much of a priority, then include me OUT.” Then she text replied and said, “eff you” and that she didn’t respond well to ultimatums.
I didn’t text back. Two days later she texted an apology. I avoided the temptation of replying with a long list of grievances and why I was finished with her, so instead I replied hours later, “Thank you. Have a good Christmas and a happy new year.” She replied “Ditto.” That was that.
The best part is I had no residual regrets. She revealed who she was to me and I believed her. No more assclowns for me. 😀
That was awesome, you handled yourself so well, did not take the bait and could end it feeling dignity preserved. What I also liked is you kept giving the other person every chance to show up the next time as a decent human being. You went out on top. That is how it is done!
Karen,
Holy well done. You are my heroine right none. Done with sass and class.
I still vacillate between being contentious and people pleasing.
I had a similar experience in recent years and it was very difficult to move past. Even now two years later I sometimes struggle with it. He was so romantic and perfect until things turned and the truth came out Once I realized the truth about who he was: a lier, user and manipulating cheater, I told him off and he disappeared. I felt bad and apologized but he was just mean after that. I suppose that his narcissism wouldn’t allow him to just apologize.
It took all the strength I had to move on from this and get well. And sometimes I still struggle to be honest. But no contact and working on myself has really helped. When I feel myself replaying sadness and anger over it, I try to turn my thoughts to myself, my life and my future. Think about what you can do to have an even better life than you ever would’ve with this loser. And try to laugh about him one day. He must be a pretty pathetic person with bad relationships if he can treat someone this way.
Most importantly: don’t beat yourself up! We all get duped by losers at some point in this life. And we all make mistakes. But at least you are putting yourself out there and being positive and loving.
Add to that final line, and being ‘self-protected’ – seriously for some of these manipulative/exploitative types, a ‘positive and loving’ woman, as you put it, is catnip for their nastiness.
Yes! I read something about a year ago and it really stuck in my brain – I wrote it down –
“once people replace the destructive legacy of traditional psychology — i.e., that everyone is almost always struggling with fears or insecurities — with a mindset that life is far more about people maneuvering and angling for the things they want than it is about them “running,” and once they realize that there’s a class of individuals best characterized as unscrupulous and exploitive fighters who will advance their own agendas with almost complete disregard for the needs of others, they arrive at a position to avoid being taken advantage of in the future.”
It’s self-protective to remember this. I was the naive, conflict avoidant, benefit of the doubt giver before and I got taken advantage of, a lot! No more. Now I think about agendas, theirs and mine.
Healing,
Your comment contains so much intense wisdom.
It wasn’t long ago that I realized people, all people, are basically operating on their own agenda. There is this inherent self-preservation aspect that none of us can get away from in living autonomously.
It was like a bright light when I realized that it was okay to assess situations on whether it was best for me even if someone else didn’t get what they wanted.
I was taught to be forever quiet, forgiving, and sacrificial. Obviously this does not work. I just ended up a target for abusers.
It’s interesting the one person who taught me to be so submissive was my grandmother. Recently, I was called to her home while my grandfather was having one of his abusive tirades; my grandmother pretended to be asleep. I diffused the situation and went home thinking, I grew up in this? Explains a lot.
Healing,
Weird, I thought diffuse meant “put out”. Anyhow, what I meant to say is that I calmed the situation and left.
Healing,
Defuse! Hot damn. Learn something new everyday. (I love words.)
And an added bonus to thinking about people having agendas and their behaviour reflecting their desires etc is that we’re less likely to be blame absorbers if we see that (as Nat says all the time) not everything that happens to us is because of us, not everyone thinks and sees the world the same way we do.
Sometimes these manipulative types can even teach us to look out for own interests better.
Every time the phrase ” why are they single, they’re good looking, smart and funny” comes up I know something’s going to go wrong.
Being single doesn’t mean you don’t possess good looks or an interesting personality. Being single is just that, being single. No one is above being single.
I’ve definitely learned that lesson.
Hope,
I really loved this. It is so strange to me how people stigmatize being single as a bad thing.
It’s crazy, isn’t it, Jennifer & Hope. I’ve had people say to me in the past – “You’re attractive – why aren’t you married?” Like that’s the only goal, the only path in life, and that somehow being attractive is even more reason to take that path… Very limited (and limiting) belief systems on their part… They’re saying there must be something wrong with you if you’re not partnered up… 🙁
That was my experience too Cindy. When someone would say I’m too *whatever* to be single it immediately made me feel like something was wrong with me. It also made me feel if something is wrong with me then something must be wrong with all single people and I didn’t want to be in that group. It wasn’t until I got into an actual relationship that I realized I am no different than anyone single or not. I have a friend who’s going through this now and I try to help her understand nothing is wrong with her but she doesn’t see it yet. It makes me feel bad because I know where she’s coming from. It’s a scary mind frame
I was an attempted catfish victim three times whilst trying on line dating. I got so good at dissing them out that one site asked me to be a monitor for them. There were the obvious ones and then those who used identities of actual folk in their profile so if you checked on them, they exist. Thing is, the various parts don’t add up. One dude or dudette used the id of a Swedish businessman that exists yet the writing was inconsistent with a scandinavian who’d been here for decades and very consistent with a Nigerian or Ghanaian not adept in English. This dude was a millionaire, had wonderful kids, looked like a million bucks who lived in a region swarming with high end successful women. Why be on line? Some inconsistencies I found:
If he’s too good to be true, he is. Stunningly attractive folk don’t need to meet folk on line which in my age range anyway, is populated by average and below average guys
Disconnect between speech/writing and purported socioeconomic level or occupation. If the person claims to have a high end job yet writes and speaks like a third grader, there’s a problem
Unusual references to God and that God means for you to be together. Nope, God means for you to pay attention. Also seriously God fearing folk in places like ski resort towns known for party atmospheres; doesn’t happen
Inability to locate the persons business, etc, stuff they claimed on line. If you are self employed, you must advertise and be able to be contacted
Noquay, I’m pretty good at sniffing them out too. Your comment, “Unusual references to God and that God means for you to be together. Nope, God means for you to pay attention” rang a bell for me. I made a comment on the Baggage Reclaim Facebook Page, and some guy replied that God would find someone for me. I thought I was in the group, not on the public page, so I thanked him. I immediately got a message from him – “Hi Cindy, how are you?” I just thought – oh, yuk!!! Then I looked back and realised I was on the public page. When I didn’t reply to him, he deleted his comment on the page. They must be just trolling all the pages where they think there will be vulnerable women. It’s sick-making!
Can someone explain why this guy even felt the need to do this? He was separated right? So what that he had 2 kids? What is there to hide? Why go to such elaborate lengths to cover up the truth? It’s not as if he was a serial killer! Or is this guy just a pathological liar?
I too have been “catfished” a few times, but most of the time the guy was not willing to meet. That is how you know they aren’t who they say they are. I have never had a case like this though, where anything went on for any length of time. But so many men are pathological liars– perhaps not to the extent of “Ryan,” “Brian,” or whatever his real name is! However, it’s very difficult for women today because there is so much of this crap going on and SO many ways for men to deceive you. It’s sad!
MJ – he did it because he could. Because he’s a sociopath, and loves the thrill of the lie and having a secret life. In other words, he’s damaged goods – a rather pathetic person who must have a wretched inner life. I find it incredibly sad, and always wonder what sort of childhood these people had… 🙁
This person sounded like someone who wants romantic attention yet cannot achieve it being who they actually are. Separated (still married) with kids are things that would send a lot of women running for the hills and ought to. Some folk who catfish women aren’t even men and feel trapped in awful marriages/lives, are often unattractive or lack social skills. The Swedish imposter I wrote about had to be someone who was a recent immigrant yet lived in that area. After I reported them, they posted the same profile but with a different photo and description; not very smart. Some are scammers out for money who tend to target middle aged or older women who appear successful, the last group are guys who were hurt in the past and do this as a sort of collective revenge against women. Less social media and more insight/therapy needed there.
Jan, you are one lucky woman! You’re the one who got away… Did you give him any money, or was it all about the game for him? Please learn from this, and trust your own intuition – THAT is how you move on. You say, “Thank goodness I’m still alive, and I haven’t lost anything but a few months of my time and energy. I’m going to listen to myself and stop projecting my own goodness onto others. I will work at seeing people as they are, and not how I want them to be…”
And you can stop beating yourself up, because this person was/is a skilled sociopathic liar. And it’s not just due to social media, because I met someone just like him in a pub one night before the internet was even invented. I got the full treatment too, and he told me he had a flatmate, and I knew where he lived (the part truth). One night after we’d been out, I had a strong intuition about him and decided to drive to his house and confront him about it. His ‘flatmate’ answered the door, and I told her who I was and she told me she was his wife. Then she asked me in, because she’d been suspicious of his behaviour for some time. We chatted for ages (he’d seen my car there and drove past instead of coming in).
Anyway, I asked her if she’d like to go for a drink, and she came with me to my apartment, where we found him parked outside, waiting for me to get home. It was her car, so she took out the keys and we went inside. My flatmate couldn’t believe she was Edwards fiance (not wife, but getting married the next month). He’d even told me a story about his dog dying, and she told me that was *her* dog. She’d caught him several times at the pub, all over some woman, yet she still planned to marry him – because “who else am I going to meet?’
It can happen to anyone, and I think you (and I) had a lucky escape. Imagine being married to someone like that? Now you can work on your self-esteem so you love yourself enough to believe in yourself, and you will stop accepting (or even attracting) those damaged people. It’s all about energy, and when we have victim/prey energy, these abusers latch onto it – they pick it up on their little sociopathic antennae…
Excellent response from Nat, with a lot of helpful insight that’s useful for us all. My feeling is that part of the reason (part) why Jan feels so hurt is that she made the mistake of doing two things: first, thinking that this amazing, fantastic man etc was so much better than her (why was someone like him online?) and then linking it to her self-esteem, so that when she found out he was a monumental fake she took it as a hit to her sense of worth. Second, she blames herself for her needs, that he saw as neediness as exploited. Hopefully with time, she’ll come to laugh at this situation – I mean, this is an extraordinary example of fraud for him to have done this for 15 months – but in the mean time, I’d also suggest she see a therapist to manage her reactions that could end up harming her.
Men of this kind, and yes I lived with a version of the same for many years and lost myself to the destructive aspects of the relationship, love the way we mirror back an idealised version of their selves, but also ‘hate’ us for our stupidity. They’re bad news, to put it mildly, so even though it hurts now I’m so happy she found out now before she moved in with him, or married him. He has serious problems and those problems are not your responsibility to fix. Steer clear.
It’s great you got out before he moved in. If he would have moved in. Like Nat said you were ready for the truth and thankfully you got it before investing anymore. I can’t help but wonder what his end game was. I thought the purpose of catfishing was to get money out of people. What would he have gained from continuing the lie? Anyway he is clearly a very sick individual. I’m so glad you got away from him before you got any deeper into it.
No, no, no; I don’t think it’s money they want. Some people get off on deceit, which I do not understand because the pinnacle of life is to know one’s-self and truly be known, loved, and accepted by worthwhile people (and thyself) in spite of unpleasant humanness.
I’d imagine if you’re bored and you don’t have a conscience life is one big chess game and all people pawns. Lame.
Great observations, Jennifer. I wonder if for some it’s both. They get the feeling of power or whatever from the game and the ‘bonus’ of making a buck while they’re at it.
Healing,
What an eerie combination.
I’m a bit older. . .I would say prior to the Internet when I dated and formed other relationships in real time, catfishing *never* happened to me. Post-internet? I would say this has happened to me at least once per year, depending on how social I choose to be, *online and offline* no matter how I meet the person. Very unsafe, very unsettling — I’ve had things happen in various degrees of severity and psychopathy.
I would say the common thread in all of these experiences is, it is so much easier for people to be alternate, fake people in texts, emails, profiles etc. than in person. Sure, they can do it in person too — but the act is much harder to maintain. It’s much less effort to reel in somebody online first, then simply step into a role in person, with the other person going along.
Long stories short — be very discerning with ANY virtual communications, even with someone who is a friend from before. I would say if the person relies too much electronically and isn’t comfortable on the phone or in person, be careful.
Also, if someone seems different in person than they are online, as in, two different people that don’t match up, be careful. I’ve detected this type of behavior in now ex-friends that I had known a long time — and turns out, they were emotionally unavailable, as well. Weird how those two aspects tracked together — being EU + more likely to have and prefer alternate online and electronic personas.
Here’s another tidbit — more men and “men” than you would imagine hire services to create stories and profiles for them online. The more wealthy, successful or seem to be super-busy (e.g. no time to write a profile or email people) the less likely the person wrote the profile themselves.
How do I know? B/c I have been recruited more than once for companies that do this, to write faked profiles for “successful men” that I never met or spoke to by phone even, just given a few details! Like they were an investment banker who likes skiing and baking, or a high-profile lawyer who enjoys museums and wine tastings, for example. Beware!
theshirelles – I had no idea people paid to have fake profiles written for them – or not always fake, I suppose, but ‘professional’ – like in real estate! That’s incredible!!! When I was applying online for some writing jobs, a guy wanted me to write his thesis for him – not just type it up, but write it. Totally unethical and could have got him kicked out of Uni if they’d found out. He’s probably just the sort of person who’d get a fake profile professionally written as well.
Honestly, I really think dogs are the new men (if you know what I mean). I meet dogs in the street, we have a cuddle and go our separate ways, and they only try and con you out of food… I’m losing it now, haha – time for bed!
Thanks for the perspective and sharing. Yes, when I think about and process it all together, the idea of writing fake for someone is like catfishing. A lot of these “hi-profile” types lack social skills, so those profiles are written specifically to lure women. And then they go on dates playing a roll, pretending like they wrote all that stuff, when they did not.
Like, show that they have a good wallet and can also be sensitive to women’s interests. Notice the seemingly perfect balance in a “man” who likes to ski and bake, or lawyer and drink wine, for example! It’s a fantasy, let the games begin.
Thanks for helping me realize that.
Yes, people put ads on job boards for freelance writers to write ads for them, many out of country for romance in various locales. I have answered what looked like legitimate ads for writing, only to find out it is to write a profile, keep ANSWERING women or men to men on a profile, and to set up various different sounding profiles for the same man. Hetero and gay men are doing this, apparently it is not unusual at all. They pay a lot less than anyone else, I only know this as you ask for the parameters of the writing job up front and the pay, and when they low-ball the pay, you realize it is not what it was supposed to be, and they start easing into the shadiness of the whole thing, it is time to say buh-bye. People lack a moral compass, and I wonder about the quality of people who keep doing this over and over again to unsuspecting real people on the other end. It is sad and pitiful.
Yes, I had pretty much the same experience — being paid to catfish. Thanks for backing me up on that. I never actually took the jobs, btw — I just submitted “screening” and “writing samples” just to see how far this would go. It’s. . .pretty far, unfortunately. Beware!
Can I just point out that some of the comments on here seem pretty insensitive towards the OP.
It’s never happened to me, as I haven’t really done online dating, but I can imagine that, if I were in thr OP’s shoes, the last thing I would want to read is a bunch of smug comments from people congratulating themselves about how great they are about spotting a catfish!
Apologies for poor editing, but I hope the general gist was conveyed.
Yeah, I got the gist, that it’s not the editing, that’s poor, it’s the gist. If it’s never happened to you, why comment on this thread anyway?
How can you judge other people willing to share their experiences as “smug”?
I personally resent *your smug* comments directly I opened up a little about dangerous situations from people catfishing.
Think before speaking, know before speaking, have experience before speaking.
I think the point of sharing is to back up the OP b/c she and all of us need to process after such a weird thing as catfishing. It’s not a normal experience but it is becoming normalized.
But wait, you don’t know that, hello? Never happened to you, right?
You can’t sympathize or even empathize b/c it hasn’t happened to you, so. . . .the gist of your comments is not only mean, but irrelevant.
Now then. . .I’d like to hear from others who can respond in a meaningful way without judgment to what has been shared.
Thanks.
Theshirelles
Yep, we may well be the two folk on this blog who actually listened to the Shirelles. My comments and my experiences were an attempt to help the OP and others. Just giving comfort does nothing to prevent an individual from being catfished yet again as these folk operate in a number of ways with a number of motives. Some of us will find it easier to spot them simply because we have a wider breadth of experience due to greater years or greater interactions with a wide variety of folk. It is a serious and a very common issue and yep, some are dangerous and have exacted revenge on their no longer willing victims. On line dishonesty of many stripes is why I gave it up. Was sick of having to play detective all the time and paying for the privilege. I only meet folk irl from now on; if that means being forced to be alone for a long time, so be it.
I don’t understand the hostility, TheShirelles. I think E made a good point that some comments could be misconstrued as looking down on the OP for not having sniffed out the catfish sooner. I don’t think that was your or anyone’s intention – I think you just wanted to share the warning signs you have learned to detect. That’s great. But no need to ban E from voicing her concerns in this thread.
I don’t think that, just because you haven’t experienced the exact situation, you’re banned from having an opinion on it. Catfishing, bait-and-switch, whathaveyou, this is about extreme psychopathy and psychological damage done to an individual and it’s everyone’s business. In my own personal opinion, precisely BECAUSE it hasn’t happened to you, your view on the matter can be less skewed and more boundaried. I value that POV.
Wait, so, didn’t I say: Now then. . .I’d like to hear from others who can respond in a meaningful way without judgment to what has been shared.
“less skewed and more boundaried” … let’s see. . .So, where is your respect for my boundaries, eh? I specifically asked for no judgment, but your comments and “e’s” disrespect people who have been through the actual experience. That viewpoint of “skews and boundaries” is 1) primitive and 2) misses the point. There is no such thing as more or less boundaried, it’s not a measuring contest — either empathize or sympathize with a person or don’t. Online, I think it’s OK to question if a person, even on this forum is real.
But for someone who ADMITS that they can’t sympathize or empathize with something that isn’t their experience is WAYWAYWAY out of line.
Really, how dare you.
Did you respond meaningfully to MY experience?
Did you share YOUR EXPERIENCE of catfishing?
No and no.
So, where does your commentary even fit, except with your own small world? Oh right, a double opinion of something that 1) hasn’t happened to you and 2) your opinion on SPEAKING ON something that hasn’t happened to you.
I don’t appreciate hypothetical criticism of personal sharing. It takes a lot to be vulnerable in that way.
Oh wait. . .neither “e” nor “hojay” understand that, BECAUSE IT’S NOT THEIR EXPERIENCE.
Most of the comments, the majority, have been from people who have experienced this horrifiying thing happen to them.
Once again, I’d like to hear from others who can respond in a meaningful way without judgment to what has been shared.
Bye Hojay! Bye E! Bye anyone else like that!
Hojay understood what I meant, however, “smug” was a poor choice of words, for which I apologise. I was tired and probably should have waited a day to post my comment.
I don’t have experience of being catfished, true, but I have been on the receiving end of asking for advice on online communities (not just here) where some of the comments have strongly implied “you should have spotted that person X was an arsehole sooner because it’s so obvious when behaviour Y happens”.
I can’t say that those kind of comments made me feel much better about being duped.
Apologies for the unintentionally hostile way in which I expressed that.
I’ve only ever posted my own tips on how to spot arsehole/red flag behaviour by explaining that I learned the hard way, through getting duped and used by people.
Some of you obviously have excellent intuition for spotting dickheads and have learned how to spot them before they use you. Kudos!
I suppose all I meant to say was that those of us who have to get used by someone first, in order to spot the red flags, might get a little depressed from reading about other people’s excellent dickhead spotting radar.
E — *reading about* the experience of catfishing is somehow not quite as depressing as *actually being catfished* which. . .OOPS! you haven’t actually experienced!
Being excellent at spotting this experience is horrifying! And is “won” by really terrible experiences! That you haven’t even had!
How about *experiencing it for yourself*? And reporting back *your own viewpoint from experience*?
At NO POINT did I EVER state that a person should have known better! B/c that would be horrifying!
*Having experienced* catfishing, I don’t think *anyone who experienced catfishing* implied that someone should know better!
Such balls on you misunderstand people *whose experience you don’t share*!
Bye woman, bye.
For really the last time, I’d like to hear from others who can respond in a meaningful way without judgment to what has been shared.
Seriously, am I being catfished by E and hojay? This is really weird, to get this kind of rise and not *share common experiences*. I feel reeled in and spat out. . .like. . .like a hooked. . .CATFISH BAIT!
I find it very odd that you seem to think that only people who can possibly empathise with the OP (and should be allowed to comment on this post) are those who have experienced the same, very specific deceit of being catfished.
I’ve been lied to before by someone, who, while he didn’t conceal his true name, left me feeling pretty stupid about a mountain of other lies that he covered up.
When I sought advice online (not on BR but another site) comments where other people discussed how they never fell for that type of behaviour
because it’s always possible to spot if you look for the key signs, really made me feel like crap.
With my initial comment I should have clarified that I didn’t think anyone was intending to have that effect – but more that it could inadvertently make the OP feel bad.
I’ve already apologised for using “smug” in my first comment, so I am finding the level of continued hostility unsettling.
Wow, TheShirelles, thank you for calling me primitive.
I have been catfished before, so please keep your assumptions to yourself.
I merely tried to explain to you what E was saying, as you seemed to have taken it the wrong way. She was coming to the OP’s defense, as she saw something in the comments that might (inadvertently!) be hurtful to her. Enough said.
I have not judged your experience, why would I?
My opinion on having ones point of view skewed and being more or less boundaried than others in certain situations still stands. I have many friends who have not experienced what I have and it’s precisely why I value their input. It’s a fresh point of view that is less involved, emotional, and personal. It’s very helpful sometimes. Sorry you don’t see it that way.
That said, I was not aware there was a boundary here on your end. This is an open forum and what you would “like to hear” on here is neither here nor there. If you don’t like what you read, converse respectfully, or read elsewhere, is my personal opinion.
E, I don’t think you were smug and I don’t see why you would have to apologize for voicing your opinion on what may hurt the OP. I’m glad you kept a watchful eye.
thank you for calling me primitive — you’re welcome!
I sense an incredibly strong, witty and sharp (not to mention informative) female presence behind theshirelles.
Why?
Why must a mostly women’s group be loving and supporting and kind all the time?
Can’t we be fierce and sharp and tough sometimes?
Look, ladies, life is tough, real tough for some of us, and it’s not always in order to give advice with a soft voice.
Jennifer, there is a difference between being witty, fierce, and sharp and being insulting, unreasonable, and dismissive due to something that wasn’t even said.
I’m all for truth telling and I don’t need to be coddled and protected from harsh truths. This was not that.
Hojay,
Ah.
I certainly did not make time to read all that was said, but your presence is still valuable here. Hoping you know that.
Hojay,
It’s also interesting that your reply to me is the very thing I need to work on at this point in my life, so thank you.
Having been a passive people pleaser most of my life, I get a bit carried away with the “I’m not gonna take anymore crap!” bit and such.
Thanks again.
As I have gotten what I needed from others who *respected my experience from their experience* and *gave me what I asked for* I am leaving this communication and thread.
Thanks to some, good riddance to others, especially those *who haven’t had the experience* or who side with same.
Buh-byeeeeeee!
I understood your intention, E. I do not understand the intensity of the reaction to it.
Perhaps because you can’t or don’t want to?
I experience you as hostile and combative. If you are looking for a fight, join a gym.
Shirelles,
No-one appreciates your sarcasm. There are many other places online where others might, try checking them out.
Noquay -I appreciated hearing from another “woman of a certain age,” with the same experiences. Thank you, I agree.
This is not the safe and respectful tone I’ve come to appreciate on this forum. I’m very surprised and taken aback by it.
Hojay, hang in there and don’t be run off by non-civil discourse. I agree, non-civility is rare here. I love what I learn from all the civil posts here – whether I relate through experience or never had the same experience. I learn things. I have been reading here since 2012, when BR truths started hitting me in the heart with their raw realness.
But I’ve noted an uptick in trolling behavior on this forum…seemed to start around June 2016. For the uninitiated – trolling is troll, by definition, is someone who creates conflict on sites by posting messages that are particularly controversial or inflammatory, with the sole intent of provoking an emotional (read: angry) response from other users.
Sometimes the trolls insult, sometimes they play for sympathy..but something in the post rings an insincerity bell or an unnecessarily rude bell.
My theory about why trolls have appeared here is that Natalie’s success has rubbed some people the wrong way, so a site shakedown was launched. Someone in Natalie’s sphere of influence is hating on her – that is just my opinion, so…..there it is.
That’s an interesting theory, Elgie! Could be the site is being targeted? I also have a theory that with the general climate of Trumpers and Brexiters, people feel supported in “saying it how it is,” without understanding the difference between stating your opinion and the moral narcissism of antagonizing anyone who disagrees with you. I think many people now feel like they have a free license to insult because “that’s their opinion.”
Could also be that some people have been so hurt and insulted by that rethoric themselves, they are starting to see insult and antagonism where there is none. That’s sort of what I’ve been thinking here.
I noticed the uptick in Trolls around June as well. Yes, Hojay, there is a big difference in stating your opinion and, what I see as, browbeating into submission, anyone who doesn’t share it. Moral narcissism, hadn’t thought of it that way before.
Couldn’t reply above as there wasn’t a reply option.
“there is a difference between being witty, fierce, and sharp and being insulting, unreasonable, and dismissive due to something that wasn’t even said.
I’m all for truth telling and I don’t need to be coddled and protected from harsh truths. This was not that.” Totally agree. Also, I believe that sarcasm is thinly veiled anger and just the tip of the iceberg.
I don’t think it’s to do with the political climate (certainly not ’cause of Brexit LOL – we are still in a very PC culture in Britain!) because trolling has been around online for years but it could just be as someone else said – Natalie’s site has got increasingly popular so that kind of thing is likely to happen at some point.
I’ve noticed the trolling too, though I didn’t notice it as far back as June, but certainly over the last few months – it struck me because it was so unlike the general type of commenting on baggage reclaim.
Hello all. I’m half-asleep so I will keep this short. I’ve been away at my father’s and so had missed how things had blown up. I am glad that it’s come to an end.
There are a real mix of voices here at BR and I don’t think that it has to be saccharine tones but I would agree that the spirit, tone and direction of some of the comments is out of step with the core values of BR. As ever with something like this, it does move on and blow over because the BR tribe is very good at self-moderating. I will check in tomorrow on the comments just to make sure this is all done now. Thank you to all of you who care, not just about saying something but who care about BR. Night.
Hi Nataile, It’s nice to see you.
I wanted to say I think it would help a lot if the so-called OP would circle back and say what she actually feels about the comments.
You don’t really know who people are, even here when it’s supposed to feel safe, maybe it doesn’t. Maybe that’s all fake, feeling safe, who really knows? Youre really putting your trust out there for people to use how they want to.
To me it looks like the person called “E” made assumptions and an opinion about the OP but did not share until later that it was based on her own experiences. She hid behind the oP rather than own her own feelings and share them openly.
It would have helped if she had said at first like one time I was somewhere else and this i what happened. But she didn’t, she waited too long, I think. She’s the only one out of all the comments who did not share herself upfront.
Is that really fair, when the topic is catfishing, and how people share or not share online? “theshirelles” could have been nicer but there’s no nice way to address feelings that are not nice.
The other person called “theshirelles” was sharing herself like everybody else but “E” missed that and did not even share herself, just her opinion. And then it all got out of hand…I think b/c the topic is so strange. It’s easy to see why someone would be so upset by the whole thing, I think the whole point is about sharing yourself or not online.
It feels weird to share yourself and the other person not share back, which is what E did and also the OP did not share.
I think it’s just the nature of this particular topic — maybe think about having the OP share themself after the original letter and then it doesn’t feel like catfishing.
Everybody’s emotions are getting all caught up in something that may not even be real, that is what catfishing is. An illusion about caring about someone’s words on a screen that=an actual person.
Unless the OP can speak up at some point, everybody here has been catfished with fake emotions and drama that seems real because it’s in writing.
I’m sorry, that’s what I think — it’s just the topic, I don’t think it’s BR as a whole or any trolling or anything like that.
It’s always better to have the OP speak after the initial letter, otherwise everything is going to have a life of it’s own — that’s what the Internet is set up for, nobody can control it, yes there are guidelines but it’s an open forum for slightly damanged people who are hurting. The communication between such people is not going to be nice at times.
HAve a nice day.
E,
This is an interesting comment, but as Noquay pointed out, most often as adults, comfort is not good enough.
Also, it’s a huge huge congratulatory thing when a BR person ends an abusive pattern toward themselves.
By giving specific examples of how to succeed in protecting oneself the OP is able to get a detailed in depth way of how to spot traps and change behavior so none of her precious time is any more wasted.
I really didn’t detect smugness in the ladies listing their successes, just a proud (and rightly so) confidence in surviving and being able to tell about it and help.
I do think it’s a valid question you ask, though.
Jan, I just want to say I am so sorry this happened to you, it could so easily happen to anyone..you fall in love with someone and it feels so exciting/perfect/precious/unique and it’s so easy to push aside little niggling doubts because you don’t want to leave the perfect love bubble.. Im sure most baggage claim readers including myself have been swept away in a fantasy relationship that eventually revealed itself to be a farce on varying degrees… that pathological liar certainly takes the cake though! You were the unfortunate victim this time and I’m sure there have been/will be many more. I hope you find lots of authenticity now on and in the future
Jan Jan Jan
Not all people are kind and good. In fact I find not a lot are. But I know some and I appreciate them (now) to the moon and back.
First off, no one is perfect and everyone makes at least a few big mistakes. (Humans are the most predatory species to other animals and earth the planet has known thus far btw–the trick is you must learn to choose only aware people to be close to, thus you must become aware yourself.)
People are going to break your heart; you don’t have to let them do it repeatedly.
That said, these man’s lies are truly something else. If it weren’t for your pain, this would be comical. This guy’s behavior was way out there.
Why be upset with yourself? You didn’t create an avatar of yourself and send that on dates. You were tricked. You were fooled. You were betrayed. Happens to us all at some point. The taking is to become wiser and listen to the signs that point to walking away.
No contact this guy stat if you already have not.
It’s a cold, cold world out there, but it’s also quite beautiful if you learn to protect yourself. Read Natalie’s Mr Unavalible and the Fallbackgirl and then her new one about love, care, trust and respect.
As for having the connection, I have an other worldly connection to a pair of boots online; I think about them all the time, cry that they aren’t mine and so forth. Will I buy the damn boots? Nope. They would prevent me from paying my rent, so boots will not be bought.
You have to learn to check your desires and get your priorities straight — you first — the dating only if you can do it without passivity and false hopes.
There are plenty of things we want, crave, have feelings for that are not the best for us and time before mind humans have indulged themselves in desires to their demise.
It’s about meeting your basic needs as best you can and learning to never sacrifice your safety nor self-esteem for a man.
What a silly, strange guy.
I’m not sure I’ve been catfished by my fwb. Things have not been adding up for a while. The latest being his neighbour called him by his previous name (he told me he’d changed it before he moved here so I thought this was odd).
He goes to elaborate lengths to avoid being found by his psycho ex, but still effectively pokes her with a virtual stick every now and then. He was the victim of dv but lately I wonder who the actual abuser in their relationship was. He denies the poking but I see it for what it is. He’s tried to do it to me too but I don’t play that game.
We are now just friends – the fwb situation had become just texts and sex and I said that wasn’t enough. He said what I was asking for (basically also being friends like we used to before we started having sex) was a wake-up call to a relationship (?!) and he isn’t ready/in a position/doesn’t have time for a relationship.
It’s 6 weeks later and he’s just introduced me to ‘woman friend’ he’s met off PoF, and his kids seem to know her quite well already. I was a bit stunned, it felt like a “and here’s what you could have won” kind of moment. Sigh. I know now he’s not right for me and I shouldn’t get into a relationship with him anyway, however, I still feel a little used.
Just going to add to the chorus of been there dodged that. It is sad ,embarrassing, frustrating, disappointing, and anger inducing all at once. It’s very much like whip lash when ones finds out. You have to get through shock of it. It’s also very hard to explain to family and friends the story.
Mine was cheating so it’s not like he was even purposely depriving me he couldn’t logistically sped more time etc on or with me. That must be extra pain.
Imagine when you are upset what a nightmare it would have been to somehow continue and find out later to have it ruin more of your life. He’s a pathetic coward though. Imagine how messed up you have to be in your head to do that to another person. Sad. If they weren’t harming others I’d feel sorry for them.
I agree with Natalie – we need to be vigilant of anything that does not seem ‘right’ or seems ‘off’ NO MATTER how much we love the person or want to be in a relationship with them. Ignoring those flags will eventually come stabbing us in a back! There are plenty of situations like this and unfortunately the reasons they exist is because the other party chose to ignore the signs.
Hey Jan and BR family,
Sorry for arriving late to the party!
Jan, I’ve been trolled twice via online dating sites now and I can honestly say no matter how big or small the deception, it still hurts to think that someone could deceive and lie so easily.
First time it happened, was with a soldier I’d met online. He told me he had never been married and had no kids. Six months later, after he’d been deployed for 2-3 months in Afghan, I find out via Facebook (he told me he didn’t have an account), that he was indeed married with 2 young daughters. He last year apologised for this, and his wife recently contacted me asking me if I’m still seeing her husband because they’ve recently had a baby boy. Massive kick in the teeth for me considering I genuinely believed that I would eventually be his wife and mother of our kids. I politely advised her that I haven’t had any contact with him for several months and blocked/deleted her number.
Last summer, I was catfished again with a fella I’d me on Tinder and had been speaking to for a couple of weeks. When we finally arranged to meet, a completely different man turned up. Scared the sweet Jesus out of me! The only thing both men had in common was the fact that they were both black and bearded. I then proceeded to lose my shit in the middle of a busy bar, tipped the wine he just bought me over his head and stormed out.
Moral of the story? I always approach online dating with extreme caution, and I am always dubious of any man I talk to online. I find that having an extended period of communication helps, e.g. once offline I like to keep consistent comms going for at least 2 weeks before meeting in person. That includes regular phone calls and exchange of photos (no nudes) also. It’s no guarantee that you won’t be catfished again, but it definitely can help. Unfortunately, there are losers out there who will do these things because they have no morals, and believe such behaviour is OK.
Chin up Jan, it’s Christmas which means a new year awaits full of fresh opportunities! x