Sarah asks: I left my cheating ex after going through hell. I managed to get over him after a few months and starting living again. Unfortunately I got back with him after he came sniffing around. It seemed everything was okay until the disappearing started again. My gut instinct knows the signs. It’s like before.
I’m mortified because I feel so depressed again and so stupid for letting him back in to my life. I wish I could just let go and never feel like I do ever again. I am not sleeping; I’m sending him begging texts, ringing him constantly–basically doing everything I used to do before. He’s severely affecting my everyday life and wellbeing. Even the sex is as boring as it was before. I can do so much better. What is wrong with me? Please help me get over him.
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I don’t blame you for feeling so down. You’ve taken a punt on your shady ex who probably made all the right noises and seemed so contrite when he was sniffing around, only for him to play you again. All of the anger that you’ve likely squashed down and repressed not just during this latest go-round of your relationship but during the breakup and before it, is being turned on you. There’s anger at him but I’d lay bets that you’re also very angry with you–angry that you’re still there putting up with it and feeling powerless, angry that you’re reduced to frantically calling and texting him, angry that you’re soiled by this man who you think now defines your worth and your future potential. When somebody treats us so badly, we wonder: Who will want [me] after this?
You’ve started to believe the lie that is the story that you’re telling you about why he does what he does and why you can’t/won’t leave.
There are far too many reasons to leave but a few reasons that all boil down to not feeling good enough, trying to control the uncontrollable and on some level holding you to blame for his BS, outweighs the many and paralyses you in stay mode. The fear, the blame, the self-dislike trump the incredibly compelling reasons to leave.
A more accurate assessment of the breakup is that you were working on being over him. If you were genuinely over him, you wouldn’t have given him the steam off your pee never mind an opening to step back into your life to pull the same con on you, so the first thing that you need to admit is that you weren’t over him. This is OK. You’re only human and actually, you probably feel as if you’ve invested a lot into this relationship and are hoping for a return on investment. You left the last time and thought you were OK and now you don’t trust yourself. Combine this with fear that the moment you turn your back on him for good that he’s going to spontaneously combust into being a better man in a better relationship with someone else, and you’re now keeping you prisoner in this relationship while trying to keep tabs on him, and it’s crippling your self-esteem and causing you to lose sleep and your health. What price are you willing to pay to keep this man in your life? At what price do you want to be in a relationship?
The second thing that you need to admit is that he has not changed. I don’t know what lines he spun you or whether you took his sniffing around to infer that he wanted you back and was ready to be a better man but fact is, he has not changed. Same boring-in-bed guy who wants to ‘own’ you without doing what it takes to be with you. He’s like the spoiled brat who doesn’t want the toy he’s discarded but now that the toy seems happy or someone else is interested in it, he needs to know that he can possess it again and prevent others from playing with it. Now that he’s certain that he can have you, the sense of being out of control has faded and with it, his desire.
The third thing that you need to admit is that you’re making the mistake of competing with other women. It’s that whole, ‘We need to fight each other because partners are in short supply’. Why else would you be with a boring-in-bed lying cheat who doesn’t bring anything to your life other than deep pain and the possibility of a STD?
You want to win. You felt vindicated when he returned–the other women mustn’t be ‘good enough’–but it’s just making it easy to play you off against each other while he’s sheltered from the natural consequences of his actions. You on some level believe that the ‘right’ woman curbs a cheating man’s ways and I suspect that him being boring in bed and yet still swinging his willy around town is messing with your head because you’re wondering: Is it just me that he’s saving his boring moves for? Is it me that makes him boring in bed? I doubt he’s great elsewhere and fact is, if you’re looking for excitement with him in bed, you need to be the nervous wreck of the Other Woman who mistakes fear, uncertainty and deception for ‘chemistry, passion and fireworks’.
The fourth thing that you need to admit is that at some point, you lost your truth. If you weren’t lying to yourself, he couldn’t get so much as a pubic hair over the threshold of your life never mind his cheating self. The reason why habitual cheats get so much airtime is because the person they’re cheating on deceives themselves in order to remain in the relationship, again sheltering them from the natural consequences of their behaviour. You’re inadvertently colluding with him. This means that anything you’re telling you that is causing you misery in this relationship and also keeping you there when you should be telling him to jog on is a lie. By your own admission, you know that you can do better and yet you’re not. Your inner beliefs don’t stack up with this admission.
Which brings me to #5: recognise that deep pain from earlier in life which has also been distorted by lies and twisted beliefs, is the baggage behind why you’re here.
You’re far too comfortable in this role. Shredding your nerves and your self-esteem to bits over an absent man and staying no matter what is something you seem to be trained to do. Which parent or caregiver did you see doing the same thing? Or which experiences even if they don’t look the same, make this relationship an easy fit? Why are you OK with lies and deception?
When you can acknowledge the baggage behind what you’re doing as well as the stories and judgements that you’ve been telling you all this time, suddenly feeling stuck in this relationship makes sense and you can start to see a way out.
This man is not your soul mate but he is here with the message that you really don’t like or love yourself very much. He’s also showing you that whatever it is that you’ve blamed you for in your past, here he is and he’s not your parent/caregiver or whoever it was, so forgive your younger self, challenge those beliefs about you and relationships and begin to free you from the past. Yes, it might be painful to recognise that baggage but if you can make the connection, you can take that straight to therapy and know what to work with.
You are going to have to make a choice. Just as somebody who has put themselves through deep pain with dieting has to make the choice between being dangerously and miserably slimmer or ‘bigger’ but also healthier and happier, you have to decide what type of relationship you want to be in. Don’t wait for him to change or for a bigger transgression to catapult you out. Decide so that you can make the right loving choices for you.
Have you gone back to a relationship with the hopes that they’ve changed, only to find that you’re in even more pain than before? What would you advise Sarah to do?
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Sarah,
I can so feel for you. I shredded myself over and over, hating me for not getting out, whining into my journal, sitting brooding over coffee, talking patient and then not-so-patient listeners into telling me what I already knew. Nat’s advice is so spot on: find the childhood culprit.
For me it was my narcissistic father, but that was only the first layer of the mummy bandages. The second, more insidious layer was my co-dependent mother who made a virtue out of martyrdom, who taught me that I would only be loved if I was invisible, had no sharp edges, and wanted nothing for myself but to serve others. She even called me a saint and oh how I wanted that sainthood!
Enter sexuality and I began a long series of love affairs and marriages that featured martyrdom, abuse and a wrenching loneliness that led to an addiction for me. At 28 years old I had a nervous breakdown and began a long process of digging down to heal and uncover, and then a more joyous process of rebuilding and recreating. I wish I could tell you I am happily with someone and that I am cured, but I am not. I AM happy and I am accepting and content and very very aware. My cycles of love and attraction still contain aloof narcissists (oh the chemistry!) and co-dependency on my part. But I know the dance and I have the tools.
Be kind to you. One thing I do that helps me (and I don’t know you so who knows if this will resonate) but I am part Native American and I go on Vision Quests. Just three days alone with nature somehow figured in. I try to get calm and not beat myself up and let my spirit speak to me. A shorter version is the I walk until I talk all my pain out and I am empty. Then I walk back and listen. I get good guidance this way. Don’t expect you to get out easily or right away. You’ve beat yourself up enough. Just notice. This is a good time to notice what you do and what sets you off. He is here to teach you so be grateful for the lesson instead of resenting it. You will just get another one like him if you don’t!
Hey Laura G. Great response & well done to you for getting yourself to where you are! it sounds like a hard road (it is! I am walking it myself) but you sound self aware & caring for yourself :-)) Sarah – all the best..you CAN do this! this article resonated with me & it is what I need to know now as well. you, we, are not alone. Let him go & find you again. I’m with you on this one. be kind. hugs & thanks for this story & your response Nat. Commit to yourself. that is my plan right now. X
Sarah, run for your life away from him and don’t look back. I spent 9 years with a clown like this- nothing ever changes. This is a matter of building yourself up so you can enjoy your life and one day fine the right good man for you. There are many. Love doesn’t feel like what you are describing. But right now you are most important, and you are settling for total bullshit. Stop. Work on your self-esteem. Read encouraging books and websites, go to therapy, eat well and exercise. Cut him off completely. You can do this!
You’ve invested a lot of yourself in this ‘relationship’ and not wanting all that time, energy and emotion to be wasted is very understandable.
However, like the gambler who carries on playing and playing because so much has already been lost, you’re continuing to throw more of yourself into the ring in the hope of getting something in return. This just isn’t going to happen, and you’ll bankrupt yourself emotionally in the process.
Please learn to love and care for YOU. Put all the energy you’re expending on this jerk to pursue some kind of recovery for yourself, in whatever form that takes. There’s a lot of material, both online and off, which will help you in the process – and it can be incredibly healing to realise you’re not alone in this journey.
(((HUGS)))
I love how honest you are Natalie! I’m finding your website an invaluable guide. What you say above is so true – losing yourself, competing with other women. I see it in others and myself.
I had a rough year with men in 2013/2014 – I ended up taking an ex to task for sexual harassment; thankfully the senior management didn’t just turn a blind eye to all the evidence and did something about it. It was a turning point for me though. I realised I wasn’t happy with myself and was subsequently attracting the wrong kind of men.
I’ve had dates and flings since which have been fun. I’m learning about me. I’m a lot more confident around men, and it puts some of them off when they realise I’m not trailing around after them; I now know they’re not worth my time.
Still a work in progress though. An old flame randomly reappeared in my life last summer (really it was like something out of a romcom – other end of the country, same city, same street, same shop, same time – after 2 years of lost contact). He’s my catnip. If we meet, I am inexplicably drawn to him, and he is to me. We both acknowledge this, it was why we got together in the first place.
Only issue is he has a girlfriend. Now I know this isn’t an “only” issue, mainly after reading your site! It is THE issue. If he were really THAT into me, he’d have ditched the girlfriend immediately and asked me out. He didn’t. But he likes talking to me. He likes finding out what I’m up to. When he’s had a few, he likes flirting and referring to fun stuff we did when we were together (TMI but it was and remains the best sex of my life…). His reliance on me is always heavier when he and his girlfriend are having a rough patch.
I played along at first but realised he just liked messing about, a realisation confirmed when I began reading your website. He likes me massaging his ego basically. So I’ve cut contact. No messages, no Facebook, Nada. He’s not been in touch in about 2 weeks which says something. I’ll miss the friendship – we genuinely get on well – but what ifs aren’t going to get me anywhere.
Your brutally honest approach has shown me my instinct was right. If he liked me that much, he’d be with me. End of. I also now know that he’s the sort who might play away even if he’s with me – after all, he made me his third wheel, what’s to stop him from doing it to me too?
Thanks you so much 🙂
Here in Texas we say a cheater is like a dog who kills chickens. They kill that first chicken and get a taste for it. Cheaters don’t change. They have a taste for it, and letting them stay or come back makes the game even more fun for them–now they still get to cheat but try not to get caught, what fun.
Run. The guy’s a cheating dog.
AMEN!!
Nell…. Thank you! What you wrote was exactly what I needed to read.
Thank Natalie (but thank you, that’s sweet of you!) – it was her blog which made me realise I was hanging onto something which didn’t exist anymore. In my mind, he was going to ditch his girlfriend for me and we’d sail off into the sunset. After all, why would FATE throw us together so randomly after 2 years if it wasn’t “meant to be”?
What twaddle. I now realise that after basically seeing myself laid out bare in one of Natalie’s posts.
I suspect I’ll hear from him in about a week… after he and his girlfriend have had a fight on holiday or something. He won’t be hearing from me again!
3 months ago, I was so lost, and caged in a similar relationship that I could not escape. In my spirit I knew he was a narcissistic, it came to me in a dream in December.
I knew it, but I still had a problem letting go for good. On May 26tj, I Google narcissistic, and came across a blog that led me to an article that led me to Nat’s No Contact book. I bought it on a kindle with the audio and began listening. Buy half way through she kept mentioning Mr. unavailable and the Fallback, so I bought that on Kindle and audio, and eventually Dreamers.
Let me tell you, I listened to Mr. U, probably 20+ times, then Dreamers, for two months straight. Whenever I was in the car I listened, at work at home. All the time I played those over and over and over. When he did contact me two months later, I was pissed, why is he calling me. But Nat had written he would.
I was prepared. Then I got back to No Contact. And have since learned about the chemistry between codependent and narcissist. And I can see this my whole life. I am 55. I am grateful for Natalie Lue, for Google, I am a new woman. I know I now have the tools to make different choices.
I recommend all of her books on Kindle with Audio, and it will reprogram you mind. DO IT, YOU WILL NOT REGRET IT.
I couldn’t agree more with this. After reading Natalie’s stuff for a year or two, it’s like I gained an extra rational voice in my head, which now screams “red flag, don’t fall for it” when confronted with situations with unavailable men.
For example, there was a married guy who I was involved with for several years (off and on), who is still as charming as ever, but now I see the charm for what it is – him pulling out all the stops just to sleep with me.
I can’t pretend that I don’t know that’s all he wants now, so however attractive I still find him, I know that it would be delusional to sleep with him again. A year or two ago, I would have been able to kid myself, but not now.
Similarly, I am now also not in the slightest bit flattered by men who try to flirt via lazy communication (texts, WhatsApp, etc).
I had a bad experience with two men, who opted for this as the main way to begin flirting with me. Natalie’s posts confirmed that being e-contact heavy is a strong sign that the guy is just fishing / half-interested.
Consequently, I will never allow myself to get drawn into extended electronic flirting again. If, in the future, I ever find myself interested in a guy that tries this, he’ll be invited to either continue the conversation in person, on a real date, or not at all.
In sum, Natalie has a magic way of putting what may have been a quiet, niggling doubt that you may have had about an unavailable guy into words that scream loud and clear that his behaviour is, in fact, a huge red flag.
Jacqui, it was Mr Unavailable that helped me go no contact with a narcissist from my youth who I got in touch with a few years ago. He had a girlfriend, but he loved hearing from me, and he was keen too hook up. He was ten years older than me, so, back then I thought he was so sophisticated and exciting. Now he’s an alcoholic, narcissistic, player who is exactly the same, only in a 65 year old body. I had forgotten the negative stuff, but it all came flooding back.
After much work and many books (thinking it was just me), I finally found Nat’s web site, and her Mr Unavailable. What a Godsend that book was – to finally see all of the guys I’ve ever known in there – even my Dad, who was married and faithful to my Mum (I believe) for almost 40 years (until her death) – blew me away. I think I need to read it again, because I must have an addiction to narcissists, and I need a reminder of the games they play.
I’m now reading The Dreamer & the Fantasy Relationship, which had been hiding and forgotten amongst some other books, and boy is it a timely read, as I seem to be heading down that path again with another guy from my past. I’m 57, and I think maybe I’m reminiscing too much, and thinking things were fun in my youth. But when I really go back there, I realise how much I’ve grown, and that it wasn’t fun at all – I was completely out of control and miserable.
I’ve never bought an audio book, but I like the sound of having it play over and over, almost like brainwashing – changing the way I think. I feel like I *was* brainwashed as a child, and need to be de-programmed – like people who escape cults. Sometimes, I feel quite panicky, that I’m not moving forward, but then I have an experience that I would have fallen victim to in the past, and I don’t bite, so I realise how much I’ve actually taken onboard from all of this reading and doing exercises. The work does pay off, doesn’t it? I think being content to be alone helps too, because a desperate need for a partner just invites the wrong element into our lives.
I love Nat’s blog, and the comments of her readers really help me see where I’ve been, and where I can be. I may die never having had a proper relationship – but I will have finally had a loving relationship with myself. And that’s no small thing…
This is really good advice Natalie! Thank you for being the life raft in the sea.
Since I can remember, I idolized charming, good looking men with zero substance. (My father fit into this category.)
As I got older, I started to see that who I chose to spend time with was greatly affecting my life in serious ways.
All my exes had charm, or looks, or money… But none of them had character. None of them gave much thought to acting out of integrity, compassion, strength, or loyalty.
I was cheated on, lied to, received an std, and impregnated all in my teens.
No matter what I tried, I always ended up miserable with men who did not value me.
Basically, I grew up incested by an uncle and devalued by my father which caused me to have zero self-worth.
After decades of punishing me for things I could not control in my childhood, and an adulthood riddled with poor self-decisions, I got help.
I came here to baggage reclaim first to get myself away from the man I was allowing to use me at the time, then more self-work began and I dug deep inside myself to figure out where the true past hurts were, and did the work of finding a therapist I could trust (it took a few to find one I was comfortable with).
Now, I feel as though I deserve respect. I value humanity and human relationships (especially the one with myself) more than I value denial and pain.
Hi..I have been reading pages and pages of BR and… I have to say the site and you ladies (special thanks to Natalie) have given me not only my sanity back but answers! Knowing I am a sane person and not worthless, has made me determined never to go back to Mr UE if he begged me!! I met him a couple of years ago and Bang!! An explosion went off in my head..he was gorgeous and he came on to me! I am a widow but not vulnerable, have been through loads in my life but never met a narcissist before and I am almost 60! Fell for the charms, sex was brilliant then he started to go cold, after being let down by him 3 times in a row I told him he couldn’t see me again as I couldn’t trust him. Then I started to drink too much.. texting him..being totally irrational, telling him I missed him but when he bothered to reply he only wanted to see me for sex, I didn’t comply! NC been 4 months now and I still see him around and yes.. i still fancy him but I am determined! Many years ago when my 1st husband cheated..i left him with a parting shot. I told him I loved him but I love ME more and i didn’t deserve his sh*t… that belief is still with me some 28 years later but I have had to dig deep to reinforce it since Mr EU now I have stopped drinking, lost weight and joined a gym life is back to almost normal. So thanks again to each and every one of you and this fabulous site xxx good luck????
Good advice Natalie l need to take myself.
Dear Sarah, what a horrible situation to be in – that dreadful, wrenching pull between feeling bored by, resentful of and even actively disliking this man, and feeling that you will be nothing if he leaves you. I now (it took a long time…) recognise this as a danger signal. If I don’t really even like the person anymore, and yet feel so anxious and scared that they will leave – then I need to be the one to leave. It’s like standing on the edge of a cliff – either I make the choice to jump, or I let the other person continue to push me off over and over again with every unkind and wounding thing they say and do. Now whichever of those options I take, they are both difficult, painful and heartrending. But one of them – if I make the brave and self-honoring decision to jump myself – offers up the chance of positive change, and lets me realise that I can trust myself, that I have my own back, and that I am worth protecting. Thank God for Natalie and Baggage Reclaim, who stayed with me as an amazing resource whilst I dithered around on the edge of the cliff, and supported me on the way down when I finally made the decision to jump. Best thing I ever did. Good luck xxx
Dear Sarah, I feel for You.
This is attachment! And it Can be felt very very strong. Don’t underestimate it. There is a reason for this and it is NOT your fault! You can’t help it. Acknowledge this. But attachment isn’t love and I Can tell You know it. It’s a bit easy – allthough true – to say: do selfcompassion, do selflove etc etc. I know natalie write a lot about this. But what do You do right NOW to break free? First ackknowledge that this attachment is there and very strong. Dont EVER beat yourself up for this. This is the part of the animal brain that is beyond our control. we have to work with this part to gain control over what we DO control and that is our actions! Attachment feels sometimes like addiction. Thats why we cant help reaching out to this person. The only person who we have recognized that relieve our anxiety. It is a fix. We’re like junkies. You have broken the attachment before – therefore You can do it again!
One hour at a time. One Day at a time. As natalie wrote somewhere: its better to feel the clean pain than the dirty pain of a toxic relationship. Feel the pain in your body during the days where You dont reach out to him. Even though You want to. YOU are in control of your actions. Yes, its difficult. Its just like Breaking any other addiction. You get to experience withdrawal symptoms as any other addict. BUT know that every time You DONT respond or dont reach out it gers better. You won this time. And so You continue step by step. Do this by breathing. Relax your body.. Do a lot of walking.. Open your senses to Nature and your surroundings. Know that this Will pass. One step at a time. Every time You hear from him is a trigger. You Will feel the adrenaline and anxiety. But its hormonal. You Can bring this Down by breathing. Congratulate yourself everytime You manage to bring Down the anxiety.
In two weeks like this the attachment/addiction wont feel so strong. Know that You have an open wound that this person continually puts his fingers into. It hurts. I Would say this is the first step to break free.
Selflove healing compassion and so forth is essential. Bur first things first.
Remember. Dont EVER ever beat up yourself. You Can help this. Be Nice to yourself.
Best
Silje
(Sry for my english but this isn’t my native language)
Thank you Silje…you are so smart!!!
Such a great piece of advice. Why we do these things to ourselves is baffling, or at least latent so that we don’t realize it until we are a heap of tears wondering how we let this happen yet again. Misery is a tough shackle to break.
Dearest Sarah,
In your heart of hearts you have looked at this relationship and you know it’s not going to work. I have been in your shoes.
I recently discovered that my boyfriend of 15 years was cheating for the last 5 years – found out via Facebook message from the woman he was cheating with.
When confronted he lied about it but finally admitted it was true. I said goodbye and hung up. The pain has been substantial – crying, sobbing, not sleeping, not eating, losing weight. Feeling lost, feeling used – feeling like I could not trust myself to ever believe in anyone again.
That was 5 weeks ago. And now I have had time to reflect. Was I really happy or was it just habit? He is a narcissist and I was drawn to him like a moth to a flame. I can’t remember the last time we had fun together, can’t remember a time when I really looked forward to seeing him. Was he just a bad habit?
I deserve better and will no longer allow those with these characteristics to enter my life.
I do miss him (the one I fell in love with, not the person he actually is). I miss talking to him and I miss his touch. BUT I am not willing to settle.
I need to work on me – somewhere in the last 15 years I lost me – only to discover when I said goodbye to him “I” came back to the surface. I don’t want to live that life. I don’t want that kind of partner.
It has taken a lot of introspection into myself as to why I would allow this to happen. You need to do the same. You are a strong woman. Break your chains and let go of the pain.
Vicki
Sarah….I was the Other Woman to a married man over 30 years ago…I fell madly in love…He is 12 years older than me..after a brief affair…I only heard from him every year on my Birthday for over 30 years…I felt I was over him and just enjoyed the attention of my once a year phone call…six years ago his wife died….and of course he called me wanting to see me…I said no! How strong I felt…but when he called again six months later I gave in….another 9 month affair of mostly sex(we were now 67 and 79 years of age) he slowly backed away and calls became few…then he sells his house moves to another state without even telling me….of course the phone calls start again and after a year he moves back to my state..wanting to see me again…I said NO! I did talk on the phone with him for another year (he calls three times a day…his pattern always) then I just stopped talking….he stopped calling….Three years pass and I sell my home and buy another in a area 20 miles from the home I owned for 42 years….The home I bought was one I have wanted for almost 20 years..I am happier than I have been in years…as far as I know he does not know I have moved or where…my phone numbers and mailing address have all changed as have the phone numbers he had of my family and friends…..It has been five and a half years since I saw him….I can just think of him and get that old feeling but I know he is NOT for me…He was the best lover I ever had and I will always love him…I hope he is happy and well (he will be 86 in November). I still have bad days that I wonder “What If ?” but I did not want to spend the rest of my life on the Merry Go Round….You can do it….Hang in there…if you really want Love it will come to you and you will know when it is real and the right one….
Wow! This really hit home for me Wanda. 30 years!
My entanglement with a MM is only 6 yrs long, but it’s eerily similar. He no longer lives in my country, so he gets in touch once a year, when he’s here for conferences. He’s also similarly older than I am (14 yrs older).
I do not still want to be having my head messed with by him periodically in 24 years from now!
I successfully resisted his attempt to get me to sleep with him last time he was here, in October, and your post has solidfied my resolve not to break when I see him next week.
Hopefully I’ll reach the point that you have, where I can tell him to sod off entirely without being taken in by his guilt trips when I try to cut contact, but no longer sleeping with him is at least half of the battle won.
To the OP – take these examples as a sign that the women who he is cheating on you with are very unlikely to be happy because of it, so it’s very unlikely that he’s giving a better version of himself to the other women, he’s just spreading his misery between you and them.
E, then why see him at all? You could spend your precious time doing anything else at all. And truly, watching paint dry seems like it would be more productive. Stroking the ego of a narcissist by showing up will certainly have a negative effect on your own self-esteem in the long run.
Crystal, you are right and I hope to one day get to the point where I can completey ignore him, but not sleeping with him is as much as I can manage for the time being, and, for me, that’s immense progress.
I have tried to cut him off entirely but whenever I do he responds in a way that makes me feel beyond guilty for trying to cut him off. I still have feelings for him, so it’s very hard to keep my resolve when he tells me how hurt he is that I never want to see him again.
It strikes me that, if he was a better man – the sort of man who might really be worth loving – he would not be focused on how hurt he would be if you never wanted to see him again. Instead he would be focused on how much he is hurting you by continuing to try to see you. And he would walk away. But he’s not that man. Take care of your self, E, because you are the one that matters here.
Agree with Donna. He’ll be cranky about losing part of his narcissistic supply whether you cut contact tomorrow or 10 years from now. There’s no good reason to wait.
Plus he deserves to feel bad. He’s a cheater and a liar who’s voluntarily putting his wife’s health at risk.
But he doesn’t *actually* feel bad so no need for you to feel guilty. He’s having a whale of a time controlling your reactions, don’t you worry! He’s just manipulating you by pretending to be upset so that you keep in contact and therefore keep damaging yourself in the process – can you not see that? It’s like Natalie says – your feelings will eventually catch up after you make the tough choice of cutting these users off. There’ll never be a ‘good’ time to do it – you just need to stand up for yourself even if it’s the toughest thing you’ve ever done before. You’ll feel rubbish in the short term but in the long term it’s the best thing you could do for yourself to get your self-respect back.
Ohhh I needed to hear this. Hes not giving the better side of himself to someone else cause he doesn’t HAVE a better side to give. I think that is what has kept me going back. What if I did all this work on him and it actually pans out and he goes and gives his awesomeness to someone else because I left too soon??? It was ME that changed him–I deserve to reap the benefits. Ohhhh the lies that we fabricate to fool ourselves. OUCH!
The most simple thing is time. Time is healing for your self esteem and to realise he wasn’t the man for you. If you sit with the pain for a few minutes and ask yourself why should it destroy you?
I’ve been there he was separated and somehow I found myself in some kind of whatever you could call it with him because he told me he was divorced which turned into still separated. We cut contact and recently spoke and the stress I felt made me realise he isn’t worth it. Yes it left me feeling a dimwit even at my age but he is fuckwit and its not that I hate him but I dislike the selfishness in him. Simply i have don’t nothing wrong except find a guy attractive and wanted to see if he was for me. Moving on, letting go is painful but stress free – good luck Sarah
Oh Sarah, I am so sorry for the pain you are feeling right now. I am in a similar situation in that I finally told my EUM that I did not want to live with him anymore on the 1st of this month. We had lived together for 6 years. It just kept getting worse and worse. I’ve been reading BR for months and so much of what is written here has just set off bells in my head. I am worth more than the way he has been treating me!
I think that what happens over time is that we somehow wind up just reacting to whatever the EUM is doing or might be doing. And that is just crazy-making! We wind up trying to fill in the blanks when we don’t have all of the information. I finally decided I was just plain old exhausted of constantly having my guard up and living my life reacting to whatever unkind thing he cared to dish out at the moment. So I decided maybe it was time to be proactive and grab hold of the small shred of self-esteem I had left and run with it.
I guess my suggestion would be for you to do the same. If you are feeling compelled to send him a text, set a timer for 5 minutes and decide to wait those 5 minutes before you do. You can tolerate anything for 5 minutes. After those 5 minutes have passed, you might surprise yourself by not feeling quite so compelled to send that text. If you still think you want to, set the timer for another 5 minutes. Sometimes we can only handle those overwhelming emotions in small bites. But each time you successfully delay reacting to his behavior in a way that diminishes your self-esteem, you have successfully added a measure to your self-esteem. Over time, this can build up until you (we) have a healthy reserve of self-esteem and we will no longer consider lowering ourselves to continue playing the game.
I think we have to start where we are. We have to start doing things that contribute to our self-respect and well-being even if it is only minute by minute. If that’s the best we can muster right now, that is totally okay. You can do this! Break it down to 5-minute bites, then stretch it out to 10-minutes, 30-minutes, etc. I think this sends a message to our battered selves that we do indeed have our backs.
Warm Hugs
Ladies (and gents, for I know you’re out there!),
I know I posted above stating that Natalie is great, which she is. Her honest, pull-no-punches advice has helped me no end.
However I need some advice, if you have any, on how to help my best friend (genuinely, this isn’t one of those “for my hypothetical friend” requests!).
Long story cut very short: my best mate broke up with her long term boyfriend about 2.5 years ago and very quickly fell head over heels for an absolutely GORGEOUS guy she met through friends. He truly was gorgeous, and actually seemed pretty decent (I never met him, we moved to different cities after university), explaining that he was about to go travelling and that he didn’t want a relationship right from the day they met. Anyway, my friend fell REALLY hard in about 6 weeks and once he moved away – as he said he would – she had a really hard time getting over him, constantly tracking him on Facebook, pretty much breaking down in tears if he went on Whatsapp and didn’t message her and thrashing herself in the gym so she could be “stunning” on his return and he’d want to get back with her. Suffice to say, I was really concerned.
About 6 months later she seemed in a much better place to my relief and decided to join Tinder (*groan*). She met a guy and very quickly got into a relationship with him. From the off, this relationship was toxic. He found out through mutual friends that she was seeing more than one guy on Tinder when she met him and went absolutely off the rails, shouting at her, storming around her bedroom and demanding to know every single little thing about her past. She told him. He declared he couldn’t trust her. She cried nightly over him, trying to be honest about her past, but he never let her forget any past misdemeanours (though he himself admitted to cheating on a girlfriend in the past).
Fast forward 2 years. In the interim 2 years, he’s called her a slut, a whore, a bitch among other things more times than I can count. He’s stolen her iPad and checked her search history, and found the name of her ex, and went absolutely nuts at her. He nearly punched a fist through the wall and threw a chair at her whilst drunk. Still she stayed with him until he broke it off about a month ago.
Unsurprisingly, she’s now convinced there is something wrong with her, tht she can’t make any man happy, and that she’s desperate not to see him with anyone else (that is pretty much verbatim what she told me in tears down the phone, multiple times).
I gave her a link to this blog but obviously can’t make her read it.
Ladies and gents, HELP! What do I do? How can I help her? She’s lost what tenuous self-confidence she had, and her self-esteem is rock-bottom. She’s my best friend and I want her to be happy.
Yikes, Nell. That is awful.
I would say there is something wrong with her that could only be fixed by therapy. It sounds like her issues with tolerating abusive partners stem from childhood, and it will take a trained professional to help with that.
As you say, you can’t force her to do anything. Suggesting counselling might not be well-received, but it sounds like she’s a good friend & worth the risk. Maybe as a first step, you could give her the gift of the book Why Does He Do That? by Lundy Bancroft for her next birthday.
I’ve been wondering about suggesting counselling too but I don’t want to reaffirm her idea that there’s something wrong with her right now (she’s got such low self esteem that I can see me, even as her best friend, saying “you need help” would justify her skewed view that she’s broken).
All I know of her family/past is that I don’t like her dad – he seemed a bit smarmy but with a short fuse – and her mum seems nice but is quite quiet and reserved. I don’t think they’re very close. When she ended up in hospital (ages ago before she met her ex) they didn’t visit her or anything, which I found appalling.
This isn’t the first time she’s put up with bad treatment – she once called me in the middle of the night in because her then boyfriend “wouldn’t stop” when she asked him to. I had my phone on silent and was frantic with worry when I got her voicemail then next morning but when I finally got a hold of her she just accepted it after a few tears.
I am coming to the conclusion that I might not be able to help her… I may let the dust settle and suggest counselling. I’ve bought to book you suggested (for my own knowledge, it gets rave reviews!) and I may hand it to her once she stops looking back with rose tinted spectacles.
It doesn’t sound like she’s currently capable of looking at any of these men with any awareness, so you might have an extremely long wait. In the mean time, these losers she’s dating are freely destroying her self-esteem even more. You truly cannot do her any worse than they are.
Passing the book along and telling her something along the lines of ‘Oh, I’ve just read this excellent book, you should check it out too!’ might make it seem less like you think there’s something specifically wrong with her.
But honestly, it’s pretty likely that she knows she’s broken, whether she’ll admit it out loud or not. Having awareness that your abusive parents messed you up in terrible ways doesn’t give you any insight for a solution to fix yourself. In fact, it’s much more likely that you won’t know how to fix it when you’re stuck inside of the damage they’ve done. An objective friend can be immensely helpful in this situation.
Unfortunately your friend is a hot mess. I can feel your worry about her. Theres nothing you can do. Theres something self destructive about her behavior. How does one cry nightly about some guy one has never really known? Doesn’t this also make her a somewhat meh friend? Is she able to be present when she’s with you? if she is then thats all you can channel to help her – the good times.
Definitely suggest counseling – but intimacy problems resolve themselves very slowly. If you tell her she should go to counseling because of her lousy taste in men (sorry I’m just getting starting here, its a late night and I’m feeling feisty), she won’t or she won’t stay long enough to resolve any intimacy issues.
Probably she has high anxiety and obsessive thoughts in some form (hence the nightly crying and Facebook stalking) – so recommend her counseling because she feels lousy, is sad, depressed. This might work better. And the side effect might be to help her build up her self esteem and resolve her anxiety which might make it less likely she goes crazy when some guy doesn’t call her back. We’ve all been there. Its not our taste in men. Its the anxiety, the fear, the lack of interest in sitting with our own emotions, the sinkhole of emotions that has no bottom and which we try to fill with very sloppy ambiguous ambivalent mediocre withholding validation from others.
Suki, you’ve hit the nail on the head with your comments – I can relate to all of that. The anxiety – oh, my, God! Sometimes we have to hit rock bottom before we can see we’re out of control, and actually do something about it. I’ve been there – we all have, or we wouldn’t be on this site and reading Nat’s books. And it’s not just young people – I read the comments above that someone was in their late 60s and the guy was in his 80s, and still the dramas. So, it’s never too late to heal those childhood hurts.
Crystal – I think I might order that book too, even though there’s no-one in my life at the moment. Thanks for the recommendation. 🙂
Crystal, and ladies… I just received my copy of Why Does He Do That? Inside the Minds of Angry and Controlling Men, by Lundy Bancroft. I am so glad that I was reading the comments and saw the recommendation by Crystal – it is about my father, and consequently every man I’ve ever known and been attracted to/and attracted to me!! It is so insightful, and incredibly helpful – I can truly see my childhood now, and why I couldn’t ever question my father, making me then unable to question other men (or other narcissists, male or female, or what I perceived as ‘authority’ figures). I feel this is going to be a life-changing book for me.
I’ve also booked in for Natalie’s e-course Calm Your Inner Critic (and Tune In To Your Inner Voice) – and have had some wonderful insights from this as well. Natalie, this blog, the people who follow it, the books that have come from it – life saving, and life-affirming… Thank you, everyone <3 xx
Oh, my God, Nell, your friend sounds like a toxic nightmare – sorry to be so harsh, but what drama. And you being a rescuer makes you a real target for someone who doesn’t want to take responsibility for their own life.
I recently had a new next door neighbour who was exactly like that, and would come tearing in here asking me to heal her every time she had some incident or issue. I had to cut her off after only a few months, because she was such a taker. I lent her a few books, and helped her in other ways, but realised I was suffering for it. That’s codependency, which I thought I’d worked through, so she was a great lesson for me. Setting up stronger boundaries made her get more manipulative, and she used her kids to try and get me to do stuff for her. So toxic! She’s moved out, thank goodness, and one of the kids lost all her contacts off the phone, so I never gave her my number again – phew!
Your friend’s parents sound like the classic narcissist/codependent couple, so she’s probably been messed up most of her life. You can’t help her by trying to ‘help’ her (which makes you feel needed), but you can help her (and yourself) by creating some healthy boundaries. As codependents, we tend to attract narcissists who think their dramas are more important than anyone else’s, and we end up thinking they are too. When I was in my twenties, I was just as self-destructive and self-absorbed as your friend, and it’s taken many years of self-reflection to realise how selfish my behaviour was, and to heal and change. Back then, I never would’ve gone to therapy if a friend suggested it, but I would have read a book – books have been my lifeblood over the years, so you could pass that book onto her (I think I’ll order a copy too). Good luck!
Omg this was me a few yrs back I took the x back he kept begging for mths I had started a whole new life and was happy but I did still had the stupid feelings for him which really wasn’t love I was absolutely delusional the same day after he had chased me down coming in the house 1 day begging everyone I know from my daughter to beg me to talk to him he didn’t even have to come with flowers or any gifts I just slept with him the same day and guess what the next day he hardly would talk to me days go by and we’d talk less and less til it got to be once a mth a and it drove me crazy I was only able to get out of that situation thru the grace of God also he went to jail for traffic and I relocated within that time and I’m on to me and it felt so good to rid myself of the heart ache and games thank God and Baggage reclaim I’ve read this for yr love ya Nat ????????
Sorry those were typos the???? My bad
These posts are fantastic. Makes me remember the foggy thinking that consumed me when I was with ACMM. Makes me see how willingly we fool ourselves into thinking we are in something mutual. We fool ourselves because we are so hungry to have someone see us as special.
Sarah, can you see how you are not alone? Do you see how many of us try to squeeze some caring out of a person who does not have any interest in us beyond getting an ego stroke from us? These men pursue us when we go NC because the pursuit of us is what really turns them on. They don’t want to win us forever. They want to win us for the time being. For one night. So that they can be sure that we were not able to ever really be over them. That is why their interest wanes as soon as they get the sex. Because now they know they can have us….as long as they never bow out of our lives forever we will always open our legs for them. And we open our hearts for them even though they have never opened their hearts for us.
For some of these men, it is a game they are playing. They take pride in breaking hearts. But sadly, for most of them, they are just aimlessly breaking hearts because they really have no plan, no goal beyond doing what feels good in the moment.
One of the posters here said “I was unhappy with myself and therefore attracting the wrong kinds of men.” Please be aware that when we get “right” with ourselves, we don’t suddenly start attracting the “right” kind of men. The “wrong” kind of men will continue hitting on us. Being right with ourselves means that we will send the wrong kind of men packing before they get one paw in the door.
Another poster had a story where the man moved to another state without even telling her. Boy could I relate to that – I used to have that thought about ACMM. I knew he was the kind of man who would do that. I could see how trivial I was in his life. And he would relish the drama such an announcement would bring – ‘Is she hurt? How hurt is she? Will she still let me come by when I’m in town?’
The reason we remain hooked into these nothing relationships is because, for some reason, we are putting all our self-worth into the “He MUST love me back” basket. That is the false belief that must be broken.
Elgie,
Your post is excellent!
Your final paragraph is so true – we measure ourselves and what sort of person we by being “liked” or “loved” far too much, or at least our ability to “make someone love and want to be with me.”
Very wise words.
Oh, boy, Elgie – great post! “They take pride in breaking hearts…” Yes, you are so right. What miserable sods they must be – they really want to break their mother’s heart, but she’s probably too cold, so they prey on vulnerable, empathic women, then feel all-powerful when they can have some power over her emotions… It makes me feel sick, but awareness is key and Nat’s posts and books, and the comments (especially the comments, as I see how similar we all are in our experiences) have been a Godsend.
I met a guy online dating 5 years ago. He blew hot and cold, the classic Mr Unavailable but so charming! I fell for him and we would meet up regularly for sex. He never introduced me to anyone he knew but was always promising me that we would be together and that he was telling his family about me (he has 2 kids from his ‘ex’). Fast forward 5 years and I am still waiting for him. Longing to hear from him and see him. In May he suddenly disappeared. He didn’t respond to text messages. whatsapp or email. I found his kids and ‘ex’ on Facebook and lo and behold his ‘ex’ had just had his baby and the wedding plans are well underway. He’s getting married in September sometime. One Friday evening he turned up at my house claiming he had damaged his phone and wanted my number. I confronted him with the baby and marriage information and totally denied it. Said he’d had a vasectomy and that his ‘ex’ was marrying someone else (with the same name!). Anyway, he never did text me (I have never been given his number) – he finally emailed me and said that he wanted us to be friends with benefits. Yes the baby is his and yes he is getting married but he doesn’t want to give me up – he wants to continue to see me for sex. I said no and finally stopped contact on Tuesday. I am heartbroken. I feel such a fool. There were so many red flags and yet I didn’t want to believe that he was just using me and lying to me.
I really hope that I start to feel better soon. I know that I just have to walk away and that I will feel better soon but it’s not easy.
Thank you Nat for your excellent advice.
What a total loser, how dare he treat you like that and then suggest you just be his bit on the side, like a toy he can play with and then ditch when he’s bored (or his wife gets suspicious). You poor thing… From reading BC you aren’t the first to suffer this treatment. It happens more commonly than I realised until I came here and read the comments sections on Natalie’s posts.
You’ll come out on top though. You dodged the bullet and he’ll end up unhappy and (probably) alone and bitter eventually. Be good to yourself – you deserve it 🙂 you’re not the one at fault here.
Seriously, you have dodged a bullet and you did nothing wrong. Do not turn to this douche canoe for validation of your feelings as it is in his interest to not validate your feelings. You have no reason to feel like a fool – this isn’t your fault. That deep yearning you feel to call him and have him confirm to you in his words that he is a douche canoe – that yearning has to be validated by you yourself. he cannot do it. So we at BR are telling you that he’s a total AC, you’re lucky you’re not in a relationship with him anymore, and you’ve been quite strong in turning him away. NC and stick to it.
Thank you for your comments and support.
I keep on thinking of questions I wish I had asked him but as he has lied to me for years, his answers would probably not be true so I am not going to give in and email him.
No contact is continuing and despite feeling a bit sad for a while today, overall I do feel better than I did.
Tracy – Poor You. And Poor future wife of his. You are probably not the only One he has ‘on the side’. He Will continue this behavior with Many Many others in the future.
I often remember this:
What You allow Will continue.
Yeah the ex act tried to comeback but by then I was done. You see for me once I got over him there was coming back. You see because I already knew how he was he showed me! So I was under no illusion he was different no matter how hard he pretended to care.
There was no way I was going to put myself through that pain again for HIM! You see for me once I stopped caring there is no going back. I can’t make myself uncare. People show you who they are and never kid yourself into thinking there is a different person inside them.
‘This man is not your soul mate but he is here with the message that you really don’t like or love yourself very much. He’s also showing you that whatever it is that you’ve blamed you for in your past, here he is and he’s not your parent/caregiver or whoever it was, so forgive your younger self, challenge those beliefs about you and relationships and begin to free you from the past.’
Thanks Natalie, this sums it up …
I’m pretty sure most here can attest to dealings with slime balls in the dating world (the cheat is one of these), and I’m pretty sure most can attest that the men they try and love do not change into respectful beings (at least not in our lifetime). Natalie has pointed out that people really don’t change drastically unless something quite harrowing comes along (not a fallback girl I might add).
Case in point: my father. He has had many horror stories from drug and alcohol abuse and just plain risky behavior. And a few near death experiences (and lots of broken bones and stitches), yet he refuses to regulate his mindless risk taking. (I cut contact with him years ago because he is a creep. And dangerous.)
Anyhow, I recently randomly saw an online dating profile of his where he said he was looking for his “soulmate” (lucky gal!) and under the title “education” he had falsely stated he had a university degree. He does not. I do. I am the one who spent years at a university and obtained a degree. He left high school at 15 and obtained no further schooling. The man is barely literate. Oh, well. I guess it just goes to show what kind of creepy can lurk behind a seemingly desirable online profile.
Be careful ladies.
YOU DON’T WANT TO DATE MY DAD OR THE LIKES.
This comment has been removed at the request of commenter. For the sake of peace–I’m away on holiday (yay) at the moment so don’t want to be checking up-I would appreciate if this part of the comment thread re Ria ended here.
Thanks, Natalie
Ria,
I am sorry your ex is an assclown! He was seeing her behind your back. He didn’t just all of sudden after 3.5 years decide in 3 months that he didn’t love you. I believe had been attracted to her and probably didn’t pursue her because she was in a relationship with someone else. The minute the “opportunity” presented itself he jumped on it. He was dishonest and insensitive. Please go no contact and DO NOT GET BACK HIM! Trust me, if a person can look you in your face and leave you for someone else and will do it again. I am sorry this happened but he was not the man you thought he was.
This comment has been removed at the request of commenter. For the sake of peace–I’m away on holiday (yay) at the moment so don’t want to be checking up-I would appreciate if this part of the comment thread re Ria ended here.
Thanks, Natalie
Ria,
It’s not her at all. She didn’t ‘take’ him. He left. He made the decision, 100% on his own. I think it’s almost certain he was cheating on you. Again, a decision he made. No-one forced him. He did it because he wanted to and he liked it. Every single moment. And if it wasn’t her, it would have been someone else.
I’m not trying to make you feel bad by being blunt. The truth is the only thing that will set you free. Cheaters aren’t special. They’re lying narcissists. Seems like you should read this post again, and reread Natalie’s advice over and over until it sinks in that it applies to you too. Your ex isn’t special. He’s one of many entitled men who are only concerned with their own selfish wants. You can do better, but not if you’re stuck seeing him for what he is NOT. See him for what he actually is and you will get over him.
It is possible he was not physical with this woman during your 3.5 year relationship. But he was definitely emotionally invested in her. And he was pragmatic in your relationship, by that I mean, he made a rational decision to be faithful to you but he never put down any permanency with you. A rented house, no children. Probably no talk of you two setting a wedding date.
He loves you, and he liked the pleasant life you two created, but he gets stomach flutters when thinking of the possibility of being with that other woman. It’s a difference in how invested a man wants to be.
Whether we want to believe it or not, when a man wants you to be his, he tries to lock you down with commitment as soon as possible. They know right away.
And I think men are more able to stay in a “meh” relationship that is “comfortable”, especially if it is friendly and without the drama of an angry woman constantly pushing for marriage. If it provides companionship and food and few fights, why walk away? But if a woman that they feel a strong desire to possess crosses their path, they will leave that “comfortable” relationship.
He may be back, when the younger woman starts flakin’ on him. This sounds like the plot line of the 70’s movie “It’s My Turn”. A man is just confused..unhappy about his staid life, tired of the routine existence of his marriage, in love with a younger woman…so he leaves his wife for the younger woman……who eventually tires of him.
But the point of “It’s My Turn” is that the wife realizes that there is life after being dumped. It’s her turn, to find her passion, and to only spend time with people who are passionate about her.
I feel you girl. I think the best thing you can do right now is to let go of him because he has done nothing good in your relationship. He keeps cheating on you twice so why still keeping him back? That’s stupidity not love anymore.
I love reading BR because I know I’m not alone and that we all need to gain strength from each other that no matter how many times we let them back in, how many times we have had hopes that followed with disappointed, all the times we have told ourselves “this is it, I’m done with him”, time will make us stronger.
I’ve let my toxic, unavailable ex turned booty call back into my life for the past year. No matter how many times I block and unblock her, how many times I ignore his messages, I had this disillusion that he still cared for me because he was persistent and consistent. But misery love company. I am a 38 year old professional and should know and see all the red flags but let them fairy tale idea that he will change for me. Not true.
I’m back ghosting him for he doesn’t want a relationship and I know, even if he did, I’m too good for him and deserve so much better. You can move on it you still allow the past to be in the present. I need to move on and remind myself, I don’t need to spend another week, another day, another minute hoping for him.. I should be looking for a man who will love me and treat me right all the time because I would do the same for that man.
Good luck ladies.. we can all do it and I find strength in you to walk this path with me.. one day at a time. xo
Repeat and believe… ‘I do love you but I love ME more and I DO NOT deserve your sh*te’ – I also read something, somewhere that said: ‘One day I will wake up old and stay old..there is no going back’ Lets all make a pact together that these losers are not worthy of our youth/middle years, don’t give them that power???? xxxx
Samatha i am in a very similar situation as yours, he keeps coming back and i keep hoping hes changed but no he still the same wants me as a booty call when it suits hiim which i stopped 3 month ago no more of that felt totally used , i miss him so much and happy when he graces me with his attention but he always disappoint’s me same behaviour. 11 days no contact hoping he stays away and leaves me alone to heal, glad im not only one gping through this feels that way sometimes.
Thanks Karen, I think this forum is always great to find strength with others going through the same problems. I know I have this “savior” complex, that I can change him and show him that I love him unconditionally. But the sayings are right.. if we keep giving these men our thoughts, it won’t free the time and thoughts for a better man to come. One day at a time… I try to go workout to kill time. Heck, the incentive is I’ll look hot when I’m finally over him and ready to meet new people. But I do love and miss him. I just wished he was a better man. He may be for another or perhaps, this is how he is. I guess I’m holding onto the memories of him treating me well but that is FAR less to how much he mistreats me. Time will heal. Let’s be strong. xo
Forgot to add hes a big cheat cheated on his 2 ex wives and me told me when i met him he can’t stay faithful silly me thought i would be different but no i was’nt was gut wrenching finding out he had another women he had great delight telling me when he dumped me over the phone last October, just after we had been away for weekend which he was very cold. Im stupid for even giving him time of day after that!! We have to stay strong x
Yes Samatha i love him and miss my ex too somedays am ok others not its a struggle, but there no good for us, i’ve wasted nearly 4 years on him when he does get in touch he plays mind games making plans to aee me then that day oh sorry cannot make it!! Its all lies of course dangling carrot you never catch it. Stay strong and no your not alone x
Ovehimnow totally agree with what you say they are losers and am 55 so i can’t waste anymore time on him he will never change i know that, i am putting up boundries which i never have had with men i like!! If they dont treat me with respect and are wish washy im out of there, am ok with being alone think you have to be or your want them to validate you they can’t you can only do that im learning that and its good ????
Hi Karen..found my EU has 32 year old from 1st relationship…triplets from another..never been married to either women and womanised all the way through. Now living with yet another woman..poor c*w. I am 60 divorced a womaniser when I was 31(never been one to be 2nd best) met and married a lovely man some years later unfortunately he became ill and died. Been out with a couple of others..but nothing serious..then bang..into my place of work walks The cock of the North strutting his testosterone!! Phew..I was putty in his hands..never known anyone like him..same as most of us on this site! That was almost 2 years ago only saw him on a few occasions but….blah… blah… blah. couldn’t keep talking to my friends as I found myself defending him as I felt so stupid and gullible!! Telling them he was a decent man and not using me when In fact he kept letting me down!! After the 3rd letdown i did tell him to clear off but.. it has taken me months to get him out of my head. I know he’s not the kind of man I want in my life and thank goodness I am strong and yes you are right we do need to be able to be on our own. Learnt from my first husband and his womanising; it’s easier being alone whilst living on your own than being lonely whilst living with someone! Stay strong xx
Hi overhimnow yep i have never had a good relationship all my life with men, think i was married to a narcisst and the other two big loves were narcisst too, of course i did’nt realise thought they were emotionaly unavailable but it was more than that. Its hard when all your family and friends are married and they hint whats wrong with you why can’t you find decent man!! But i have always been attracted to charmers and they are always no good when you (really get to know them) there selfish nasty sods its there way or high way. At least you had a lovely husband but awful he died so you know what a lovely decent man is. Where to good for these pee takers let them go.Its really helped me knowing there people out there like me its a bloody mine field out there stay strong i am x
Hi Karen..I am sorry you haven’t had a good relationship up to now but I still believe in fate and these losers will have their comeuppance, they will get old one day, old looks, old body and an empty chair next to them! Just memories of how they have mentally abused women along the way…well.. that’s my theory! People reap what they sew. You will meet someone oneday and if people comment meanwhile on your being still single, just tell them you are a choosy t*rt and would rather be on your own than with the wrong one. That’s the line I use! I hopefully have learnt my lesson after 1st ever EU and i will trust my gut instincts in future, i even asked him if he was playing me after 1st date and I still went on a 2nd and more..does that make me mad? At the time he was making me worry about myself and my ability to judge people but that of course was his intention….the egocentric player! Thankfully commonsense took over and saved me from digging myself into a deeper hole..he was no good!! I can only say and I know you agree with me..to all women/ men who read this…please do not waste another precious day on these losers..make you your priority… don’t waste your kindness on people who do not deserve it or indeed return it. Life really is too short x
Hi overhimnow i agree i think these men will die lonely old men or in nursing homes hitting on the young nurses thinking they still got it !! Very sad, friends always say am to fussy but am not my last ex was not good looking at all he was tall and i liked that am easy pleased lol mind you he thinks he is all that and hes not ugly outside and in.They play mind games with you i did same as you i accused him many times of playing with me he denied it now i know i was right your intuition is never wrong am going really listen to it in future. They know what they are doing there master’s of it, making you feel like your making big deal out of things and your not, messing you around and they enjoy it!! Would be nice to meet a man but am going just try and make my self happy along the way. Hope you meet a nice guy too we deserve it and all women on here do x