When we’re not boundaried with our time and we tell people what we think that they want to hear, we can end up overcommitted, over-scheduled, and overwhelmed. It’s a time management issue stemming from people pleasing – a mix of relieving tension (even if it’s due to our overactive imagination or being triggered), along with wanting to make others feel good, plus attempting to control their opinion of us. Flip that habit over to dating and relationships and there are some clues about why somebody may do a U-turn on declared feelings and intentions.
Sometimes a person overestimates their level of interest or capacity to commit.
When we’re on the receiving end of this and the big claims and promises don’t prove to be true, we feel damn bloody upset (and rightly so), but it’s important as we traverse the complicated mix of emotions that these situations bring up, along with what can seem like a mental travelator of unpleasant thoughts mixed with bittersweet memories that make us ponder, What was real? What was fake? Am I fool?, that we don’t clobber ourselves for it not working out.
An expression of feelings (or plans) isn’t a contract. What we express and the level of understanding about that expression, represents our understanding at that time. A self-aware person has enough self-knowledge to express those feelings with intention, integrity, and awareness for follow-through. They don’t say things lightly or off the cuff. They know if they have those feelings because they’re for instance, falling for us, or whether part of what they’re feeling is about escaping something else or looking for us to be the solution to something internal.
Even though feelings and plans aren’t a contract – it’s not as if a person says that they like us and they’re contracted to do so forever – that doesn’t absolve each of us from being conscientious and responsible. This doesn’t mean taking ownership of other people’s feelings and behaviour and micro-managing ourselves, but it does mean not being reactive or running purely on feeling. It means considering the consequences and expectations that come with what we communicate to others.
Some people take a considered approach because while they’re not making any grand claims that this is exactly how they’re going to feel in 2050, they know themselves enough to know that what they feel is real, true, and sustainable, not just a momentary or short-term thing that will wane as soon as real life kicks in.
They’re also not hyping and selling.
When a person is, for example, cheating on their partner or spouse and making declarations to us and putting forward plans, they’re fantasising. They’re also selling the dysfunction. It’s better to say that they’re crazy about us (hence why they’re engaged in lying and deception) than it is to say that we’re a form of escape or an ‘upper’, or even somebody that anaesthetises them.
If someone lacks self-awareness and is looking to prompt feelings in others in order to gain validation or to even bask in the way that they’re being seen by that person, they’ll say things in the moment that don’t really reflect what they feel in the main or their ability to commit. As I said to someone the other day, “If you don’t want a relationship with him and are unable to commit, why are you telling him that you love him?” This is where a person can fall into the trap of using their feelings (and ego) to act as if they have a proprietary right to a person… even when they have nothing of substance to give.
They don’t realise that there needs to be the deeds to go along with the sentiments.
Some people overestimate their interest or capacity for commitment because they like how they look on us. They might feel that saying all of this stuff is how you woo somebody and compete in this ‘market’ (read: dating). They don’t want to miss out. It’s similar to people who list a property as a three-bedroom when it’s a two-bedroom with a dining room.
Sometimes a person overestimates because they really want to believe, either because they’re very attracted to us and want to possess us and/or because they’ve been through tough times.
When it’s about possession, they mistake being out of control for love, and may also believe that in possessing us, that they will feel a certain way or that certain problems will disappear. When they don’t, rather than recognise the flawed thinking and deal with that, they say, that they haven’t found their perfect person yet.
When it’s about their past, we can inadvertently become a form of escape where they convince themselves that they’re ready, that they’re finally going to forget about the past, and as a result, they big themselves up or they go all out on the big ticket commitment items such as engagement or moving you in. Sometimes they’re pressured about their recovery time and sometimes they feel what may be pressure from their loved ones or are comparing themselves to others.
They move in haste so that they don’t have time to think or even fully feel what’s going on.
Then real life kicks in, possibly along with feelings of inadequacy and the realisation that they’re still afraid and affected by those things from the past that have held them back before. They worry about getting things wrong or things going wrong. It seems safer to sabotage and bring things to an underlying foregone conclusion (the self-fulfilling prophecy) or just straight up make a fast exit.
There’s often this unrealistic expectation that things have to be perfect just like at the beginning (when it’s new and both parties haven’t unfolded or had to truly follow through on commitment), and when reality bites, they panic.
I hear from so many people who are living with or engaged to somebody, or who were introduced to family or friends, or who went on holiday or whatever it was, only to suddenly find themselves left with the shell of the person they met or an empty hole where they their Road Runner-style exit, often hitting The Reset Button on the way.
It’s as if this person woke up one day, and maybe it was seeing their partner move things around in the house so that they could fit their stuff in and make it ‘theirs’ or maybe it was the first quarrel, but whatever it was, they’ve woken up and done the equivalent of thinking, Sh*t’s got real! What the hell have I done?
What do we do when we’re scared? We seize up. We start behaving unusually. It manifests itself in various ways even though we often think it’s hidden.
We love and we want to be loved and sometimes, our desire to feel connected, or to not feel pain that we haven’t quite dealt with and healed from yet, gets in the way of that. We say and do things that in retrospect, didn’t need to be said. We do things, not really to show and give our love to others but because we want to make some sort of point to ourselves or generate something from them, and when we do this, we end up hurting not loving. We are reckless with our choices and our words.
If you’ve been hurt by someone’s overestimating, it’s understandable to feel shaken and wary. This is why it’s vital not to go too fast or to be swept up because if they slam on the brakes, it’s a rather painful awakening. In these situations, you have to slow right down and gauge the situation – and that’s what I’m going to talk about in my next post.
Your thoughts?
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Another great article, Natalie! I’ve been reading your blog and many of the women’s comments and stories for a couple weeks now. They have been helping me a lot but I am still struggling. My ex EUM (possibly AC), ended things with me in November. We started off as good friends who met online. Not a dating site but from online gaming (I’m kind of a nerdy gamer girl lol). A little over a year ago, he and I started talking more and admitted to each other that we liked one another. I was blown away by this because he was gorgeous, funny, sweet and British. He was my ‘dream’ guy. He had also been a really supportive friend to me. We started up a ‘relationship’. Talked almost every day for 7 months (facebook messenger, Skype, texting). We were also sending certain types of pictures to each other. Not proud of it, but I did it. He went off on a month long holiday to AU/NZ but still texted me almost every day. THEN he came home and he seemed different. Started pulling away, talking to me a bit colder until one day he just stopped all together. I assumed he was depressed for some reason. I tried sending him long messages on Skype, telling him I didn’t understand what was happening, that I was concerned about him, etc until he replied back: “Look, you just have to give me time.” That was it. So, I left him alone for about 2-3 weeks. Then one day he messaged me on Skype. He seemed like he was more like himself (joking around, a little flirty, etc) but he never really explained. Just said he “had been having a rough patch”. After that, he hit the Reset Button and we picked up where we left off. Stupid me, I know. He was never like he had been the first 7 months though. Would have days where he was cold toward me. Acted selfish at times. He HATED answering questions. For instance, when he’d go out the night before and I’d just casually ask, “Oh yeah? What did you do?”. He claimed he hated being asked things because his parents always bother him about who he went out with or where he went (he’s 31 and has lived with his parents for 3-4 years after he injured his back, that required surgery PLUS his 5 yr long relationship ended). He blew hot and cold a lot. Each time I just blew it off and accepted it. Just thought he was a ‘moody’ guy. Anyway, we finally decided to meet up. I fly to England for a week. We had sex the first 3 nights, which honestly, was not very good but I assumed that it was just nerves, etc. Plus he was very unaffectionate toward me. Told me, he’s always been that way. There was no cuddling. Barely any kissing. Then the 5th night…he told me that he ‘didn’t want to ruin the friendship any further”, “didn’t want to lose my friendship”, “didn’t want a relationship/girlfriend anytime soon…wanted to sort himself out first”. Even accused me of coming out there,’gunning’ for a relationship. I was shattered. In shock. The first 7 months with me, he Future Faked. Blew hot pretty much the entire 7 months. And yet sat there on the bed, and told me all of that. Told me he understood if I hated him and never wanted to speak to him again. I did not want to lose him from my life, so I accepted the friendship branch. Managed somehow to still have a good time on holiday. We actually laughed a lot and he was playful with me. I came home and he started barely speaking to me. Pulled away. Just like he had 6 months prior after his last holiday. THEN I found out that I was pregnant. No…we did not use condoms. VERY STUPID!! I told him about the pregnancy and he told me that I needed to get rid of it. He said “I’d rather not have a kid until I am ready. I’m not even able to look after myself. Plus you and I won’t work. You know this.” I had asked him for a conversation one night…needed his support…and he flew off the handle and accused me of trying to “drag him into being a Dad”. I only wanted him to talk with me because I still hadn’t decided what to do. Well…I ended up having a miscarriage. Plus I found out I had a lump in my breast. Told him about it the next day and of course he was all loving and concerned. Said that ‘we’ needed to focus on the lump now. Told me he wished he could hug me and that he wasn’t ‘going anywhere’. But he did. He pulled away. We barely spoke for a couple weeks. Then Christmas came and he was very cold to me. Told me he “didn’t have a lot of time at the moment”. We spoke a hand full of times (on Skype)in January but it was ALWAYS on his terms…ALWAYS when HE wanted to talk to me. He couldn’t even make time for me when I was waiting for my biopsy results (which were negative btw). Then on the 7 of this month during a Skype call, he tells me that he is now dating some new girl…that he REALLY likes her. I was in shock. Two months prior, he said he didn’t want a girlfriend. I asked him about it and he said “well I didn’t then. but I really like her.” Wtf? So every Saturday, they have had dates. She lives over an hour and a half away from him. They went out for Valentine’s and were out all day together just yesterday. (Yes, he is on my Facebook friends list still) He posted “No comment-feeling happy” just today. I just can’t believe that he is being this way not only to me but that he is acting like this with her. He kept our ‘relationship’ of a year secret (yes, HUGE red flag). I’m not 100% over him. I’ve been so focused on keeping this guy in my life even as a ‘friend’ since our holiday that I haven’t allowed myself to get over him. But in 2 months time, he has AND is now crazy about this new posh looking girl. I can’t even explain how sad and angry I am. I just don’t understand. Could this new relationship actually last?? I don’t believe I am wrong in thinking he’s EU. Most of the signs of an EUM that Natalie posted fit him to a tee. Any comments and advice would mean so much!
Cinders, Oh Sister, I think we were with the same Brit. Just joking, but there’s a pattern here, blowing hot and cold, it’s all there staring you in the face. It’s classic psychopath/Narc behavior, the idealization devaluation, discard. Notice he didn’t turn down the sex and blamed you for “gunning for a relationship” When this guy went to AU/NZ and came back very cold, he had probably already targeted and been sleeping with someone else. Ditch this dude pronto, you dodged a bullet. This guy is a creep. You have no idea how dangerous this behavior can become. Here’s an example, from my previous experience. I too had an assclown who future faked me, It turns out he was also masquerading as a 28 year old Australian (he was a 47 year old British guy) he had called a his health insurance company and had been telling a crises counselor a bunch of lies and probably flirting with her, this ended badly for him when the cops showed up at the door since the crises counselor had called 911 on him. He ended up in a psych ward. Granted, this is an extreme example of the kinds of trouble these types can get into. They also have a penchant for unprotected sex and transmitting disease. This man targeted me, as I was a recent widow with no family near, that’s how sick these assclown’s are. They prey on the gullible and vulnerable, that was who I used to be. Get this guy off your Facebook and all social media. Block him on all your devices. The biggest clue to the kind of assclown he is? It’s your complete confusion and his ability to instantly start another relationship. This inexplicable behavior is key. I am sorry this has happened to you, but you have to start on building up your boundaries, it’s a long process, but so worthwhile. This website helped me break up with the AC 2 years ago. Still he kept boomeranging back, keeping tabs. Don’t think for a minute that won’t happen to you. These types have a canny ability to know when you are getting emotionally better and they show up again, even though they have no interest in you. It’s either a booty call or a ego boost, but it’s never about you. Close the door on this chapter of your life. You don’t need the chaos and confusion. Start reading on this site all you can about boundaries. I am a much stronger person now. No one will ever take advantage of me again. You can do it Cinders, good luck!
Cinders, your experience is a bit horrific, but … I know it sounds harsh, I hope you have some friends that can say it and not just us online folks — you sound naive, and potentially too impulsive and / or have little self-care and regard for your own health.
You had an online 7 month ‘relationship’, with a guy in another country or at least a flight away, then after he already pulls back, YOU (not him) fly to meet him, immediately have sex without protection (what! its lucky pregnant is all you are), and now are shocked that he’s not ready for a relationship. He never said he was, did he? Even if he did, you never met him so had no reason to trust. You were texting / chatting every day and him such a lousy person – were there no clues or you couldn’t pick up the clues or ignored them? A 31 year old, recently out of a serious relationship, living with his parents, in a different country. What made you think this might be a good idea?
This is not just about him being AC. This is about you being EU as well – please get some help and advice from well meaning and sorted out friends, as you are probably also on your way to becoming a single mum (yes?).
You’ve dodged a bullet on this silly guy – he’s not a creep though we can call him that. That just dehumanizes them. He’s a weak immature EU loser. He’s a joke of a person. No fit guy to be a dad, husband, partner, boyfriend, friend or acquaintance. Lose his number. Time for you woman up, find your strength, and get rid of this sentimentality.
You ask if his new relationship might last. Wrong question. You have to ask yourself how you got sucked into having any sort of relationship with him, for believing that online chatting for any amount of time implies a relationship, for thinking that unprotected sex is okay etc etc. You need to ask yourself questions about your own behavior.
In the long run, other than the pregnancy, this man is a blip in your life. Asking questions about him is useless – its you that you need to figure out.
Oh my apologies – how did I miss that you miscarried. I’m so sorry Cinders. Please disregard my tone, ooofff how insensitive, me telling you not to be unsentimental…so sorry.
Perhaps you are focusing on him because you dont want to ask those questions of yourself. Given this, i think its not just well meaning friends you need, you need to find a good counselor so you can process your loss, because all this plus your other health scare means you are reeling. Yes, it makes you EU because it makes you want to avoid all the big changes and emotional crashes of the last year of your life. Its okay to avoid some things as it gets us through life, but replacing stress (why is he dating someone else) for sorrow (for your losses) doesnt help in the long run and unprocessed loss makes one undertake more risky actions.
Hugs and good vibes Cinders, sorry again, long day.
It’s alright, Suki. No worries. Sorry if I also had a sharp tone. I am just in pain right now. Hugs back to you.
And Cinders if it helps you to know this — all of us here are agreeing with you, the man is just not a decent person to know. He’s not your friend. He should not ever again be in a position to be a friend. Him having a girlfriend has nothing to do with you – he was not meant for you anyway. And you dont want him. I was saying last week that sometimes people without boundaries end up with strong ‘connections’ because it means you have just jumped in. That is why your friendship felt real, but it was only an intense fantasy connection – it can’t be real until that person shows up for you in real life and he didn’t at all. There were also times that you didn’t show up for you, and that really is what needs to change – you expected him to show up in ways that you havent done for yourself yet. When you do, you’ll find him to be so insignificant, beneath your interest entirely.
So you dont need to think about him any more, you dont need answers from him they will never be forthcoming. We are all providing you any answers you might need about him – you have to close that chapter.
Doing that will help you process your loss, and figure out what led you here. This is going to make you a different person, a stronger person. Loss does that. Dont be hard on yourself though you probably are. We’re all here because we make mistakes, big galumphing mistakes, and we’re trying to make fewer as we go along.
Are you sure there is no access to counseling for you? Even 3-4 sessions with a good cognitive behavioral therapist could really help, so if you can find a way to get that subsidized, covered, give up on starbucks for a year whatever, it will be worth it. There are also other free resources, especially for grief in most areas, group therapy, support groups etc.
In the meantime, please read whatever self-help books you can find, including on grief, they really help. Cognitive Behavioral Therapy for Dummies is a good one. Brene Brown’s books. Natalie’s books explain the patterns that led you here.
@Suki Yes, I do have friends that I have spoken to about this. And yes, I was very stupid AND naïve. I have never had a lot of self confidence in myself. I know this is not all his fault. I had a hand in it as well. I was too trusting I suppose but I do trust people who are my friends. As I said, he and I were good friends for over a year prior to us getting involved. We were there for each other for several real life situations/problems. There were no clues that he didn’t want a relationship with me or anyone. We talked about the future…hinting at us being together several times. He and his 5 year long girlfriend/fiancé, had been broken up for over 3 years before we got involved.
I am no longer pregnant. I miscarried. And I do know that I was foolish to not insist on using condoms (which he had in his bag). I’m not proud of it and know that I could have ended up with more serious health problems.
It may be silly of me to ask about this new relationship/girl but I AM still going through a heartbreak. I still hurt. BUT I AM also working on myself. If I had the money right now to get therapy, I would do it. I AM taking steps to better myself and to do anything I can to get over him and all the pain.
And Cinders, please get yourself tested for STDs and HIV. HIV has a 6-month incubation period, so either get tested now and then again in month 7 or wait for month 7.
Now…aside from your lack of concern for your physical health….you must get off the rollercoaster and figure out why you are so eager to “be in love”. You bought into total fantasy. You cannot “know” that someone is “the one” when you have no face-to-face consistent contact, over a period of at least a year.
All you knew was that he was handsome and easy to talk to – and you were off to the races thinking you had found your Prince Charming.
He sounds like a serial hit-it-and-quit-it guy. Stop comparing yourself to his “new meat” and thinking you are less than her. If he marries her and leaves you alone for good he’ll be doing you a favor.
Why are we so desperate to turn almost ANY guy who can strike up a conversation with us into “the one”?
@Elgie R. it’s good that you tell her to get tested but you can get tested 3 months after. Not months thats wayyy too long. Now a days they have a 3 month mark.
Lucky Charms is spot on. Get off of social media; you’re just torturing yourself.
Cinders,
“I can’t even explain how sad and angry I am. I just don’t understand.” Oh boy – I feel your pain…
It’s frightening how bad being kept a secret only to find out that they are quite public and different with someone else can make you feel. And all the wondering: How can this one last? I thought he liked me? Why is he moving along with her so quickly? Was everything he said a lie? Can we still be friends? How can someone do this to another person they once claimed to care about?
I know EXACTLY how you feel and I hope you hang in there! In the past week I have read and re-read many of the posts and comments on here. I can’t say that I feel like this horrible feeling will ever end, and I am at the lowest I think I’ve ever been in my life, but I am finding comfort in knowing I am not alone. I know this experience has shaken me to the core and I will never be the same. I just hope the sadness and 24/7 thinking ends…SOON! It seems everyone on here is very supportive and understanding. I am so sorry this happened to you – it’s such a shitty feeling. Keep coming back here and we will all just have to lean on each other.
Here’s hoping this all passes and we come out the other side. (((HUGS)))
Cinders,
I had a similar experience years ago with a long-distance guy that lived out of state (we visited in person at least once a month). He blew so hot and initiated the whole introduce-me-to-your-parents and maybe-you-should-move-down here-closer to me thing. Because we were together over a year, I finally had sex with him on a 10-day holiday. My body was adjusting to the birth control and I was feeling crappy, but I still went through with it after him stating his annoyance that I “didn’t trust him after being together for awhile” and he “can’t wait any longer” (implying he’d leave if I wasn’t ready for sex). Sure enough, as soon as I flew home, he started cooling toward me, and started a lot of U-turn behavior (some very much like what you mentioned) and got defensive about everything. We were done within a month.
For awhile, seeing social media killed me. Couldn’t believe the cruelty and non-chalance he exhibited as he pushed all the new females he was meeting and paying attention to (while he claimed he had no time for me during the breakup) that I HAD to go no-contact for my own mental health. I hid all his posts, I didn’t return his texts, NOTHING! I understand how a guy like this can play with your mind, esp. when you were used to being well-treated and a priority at the beginning, but once a man turns on you like that, be thankful you dodged a bullet. You deserve a man who won’t play hot/cold, and consistently values you and is emotionally (and physically present). I’d suggest going NC, not observing his movements on Facebook, and meeting someone more local to you. Remember, it’s easy to hide yourself and your life behind a computer! Some men love the chase, and feel comforted by the distance because it means they have an excuse never to commit themselves further. Some online guys have a girl back home or are fishing for one-but love meeting girls online when they’re bored. Never think you owe a guy sex (or think that giving it to him will ensure he’ll stay). If he’s showing that he’s not sure about you/waffling over the relationship, he doesn’t deserve to have that part of you. And him telling you about the new girl he has….just despicable! No sensitivity to you whatsoever. Good luck, and heal yourself…
I broke up with someone a month ago and remained ‘friends’. Problem for me was I still had feelings for him. My friends said that I needed a clean break. I prolonged the agony. I had a clean break last week which hurt but it passed. I have spoken to him since but things are different now. I no longer pine for him and get depressed that my feelings are not reciprocated. I needed that time to heal. He is still ‘unavailable’ to me in a romantic sense.
Thankyou for being so honest. All we can do is learn from these experiences.
Hello @Cinders,
I can’t agree at all with @Lucky_Charms about the “psychopath/Narc behavior” she is mentioning. The relationship f*ck*ups spectrum is so wide. For example I’ve seen people who were entering in rebound relationships and behaved in similar way.
Regarding @Lucky_Charms story about her experience … I can say thanks for sharing your story!
@Cinders based on your your post I can think that he has to sort his life on his own, but seems that he thinks that the external source will do his own work. Seems that he just doesn’t understand what is the impact from his actions and probably he doesn’t understands himself.
I am saying this from my own experience, because I think that I am / was classical EUM and I remember very clearly 2 moments of my life when I went too far. I’ve hurt another person, because I had problems to understand myself. I was coward and probably still I am, but I learned some important things and that the dating and promising things is not a joke. I had to experience my epiphany to feel the reality. I experienced exactly what I’ve done to other people in the past. I realized how I’ve hurt some people, but it’s too late to apologize, because I will just open old wounds.
What I can say is this: It’s not about you. He has his own problems and you are not the solution. He has to sort his life and you need to take care about your problems. I know that it’s not easy, but you have to find power to stay in full NC. Doing NC is not easy, but this is the way how you can get a distance from the situation and to clear your mind. I had my story with my epiphany and I am not going to go in to details, but I want to say something about deciding to initiate NC and how I managed to stay NC. It wasn’t easy even after my enough moment, because for first time in my life I had to cut somebody who I really cared for. I needed 3 months to close all the communication channels after the enough moment. After that I struggled near 1 year, because I still had flashbacks and I had problems with the acceptance. Well currently I feel very good and I am not going to look back even if my ex one stops me on the street and want to apologize and etc. It’s too late, I’ve already forgiven and I don’t want to play with fire.
I know that it’s not easy, because you are different ( everybody is different ) and you deal with your problems in your unique way, but believe me you have the power! If one person overcame end of relationship then another person also can do it.
You said this: “Could this new relationship actually last??” I also was wondering the same for my case. After the time have passed I can say that I don’t care, because this doesn’t have to do anything with me. I can control only my life and there are so many people that will want to share their lives/intimacy with me. Why should I stay in situation where I have to feel this kind of insecurity and competition. F*ck it! I’ve shown who I am, but my partner decided to line up somebody behind my back and to deny the existence of our relationship. Well when I think now about the situation it makes my ex not so attractive to me, because of this kind of infidelity. I just don’t respect this kind of behavior anymore.
I advice you to stay around the BR community and to listen to the ladies advices.
Take care!
Mr.U….I could have written your comments…Have not seen the “Love of my Life” for four Years..as of two Years ago stopped taking his 3 times a Day phone calls. He still sends me a Birthday Card every Year. His Birthday is a Week later and think of him but just let it pass….I still have thoughts of “What If” for I have known him for over 35 Years..I hope he IS happy even if with someone else (have no idea)…I intend to be happy as I am… NC is very hard but gets easier with passing Time and moving on with our Life….
Cinders,
This sounds like the guy I was with for 7 years. I am sure these guys often have multiple girls they are doing this to all at the same time.
I am sorry you had to go through a pregnancy and miscarriage without his support. I am so sorry that you are now left wondering what on earth happened along with all the pain that goes with it and that you were probably in on some level before this “relationship” started.
In time you will see this was an important lesson for you to learn. Not everyone has the self awareness, decency or even know -how to treat others well and with respect. It does not matter about him, all that matters is how he treat you. He treated you badly.
Feel that it feels BAD and endeavour to only have people in your life that help you feel GOOD. Ultimately feeling good will start with yourself. Make yourself feel good in the aftermath of this. Take care of yourself. See good friends and do the things that cheer you up. Learn to make yourself happy and you will recognise when others do not.
Love
Bx
Someone who can treat you like that when you’re pregnant with his child is not worth knowing.
Maybe he has met the woman who he will stay with – maybe not. Either way you know for sure that this woman is not you, and you have to find ways to protect yourself better from any more hurt. Block him from everything, is my advice.
Amazing thoughts….
Going through something like this right now actually.
He put on the brakes & its upsetting but I now know exactly why. As usual your articles are always perfectly timed. You have helped me so much since I found you online a couple if years ago, as I’m sure that you also have helped a multitude of others. Thank you for your amazing work =)
Love this really makes sense of my recent relationship experience, as soon as reality hit in terms of responsibility in relationship, my kids entering my life again he disengaged literally, after asking me to marry him in 2012.
Thank you, Natalie. I just went through this with a childhood friend who came back into my life last year. He quickly proclaimed love, that he wanted to meet my son and mom, and that he loved me and even thought he would like to marry me. I never fully believed it all, but on some level I wanted that and allowed him to proceed in a fantasy and take my heart with it.
After a few months his ex GF came back into the picture, angry that he was seeing someone (not sure really if she was a true ex). He went to give her her stuff back and disappeared for the night. Never apologized to me and disappeared for days, re-emerging after a week as a different person. No longer proclaiming love, that he wanted to be with me, etc. Whatever happened between him and his ex shook him awake into wanting to pump the brakes with me and begin the fade pattern I know so well.
The other day he got in touch to ask where I was (I broke up with him shortly after the ex GF debacle). I said I was here and asked where we stood on things. He said HE needs to stand on his own. When someone shows your how they are, you must believe them. Actions will always speak louder than words. This was a wakeup call for me as well, that when someone proclaims the moon and the stars right off the bat that they are rushing something to cover up a past experience in the hopes of being ready for the future. They rarely are.
I’m looking forward to that next post. This was much needed 🙂
I recently discovered this site while searching on Google. It is the BEST DAMN relationship blog oit there. Talk about getting real. It’s like Natalie sits on my shoulder and sees my life. This latest entry is the realest. Man comes into my life, rhapsodises about marriage and me being the “chosen one” and perfect for him. Very close the first 8 months. Then, the big pullback. Um, no, can’t move in, let’s postpone the wedding, sorry, can’t spend holidays with you… Mr. Big Talk wanted to believe this was the end of the rainbow until he came off the adrenaline high. Now,after almost 2 yrs, we have a stop and start thing. Since I’m an older woman who’s been married, I’m ok with the slower pace. But it’s ass backwards.I wear the engagement rings (he got me several) b/c they’re pretty. But they’re essentially meaningless.
Ariel, sell all those engagement rings, book youself a holiday somewhere nice and have a romance. Stop the agony of so-called romance.
Sorry, I meant agony of so called “relationship”.
ariel84. Give that “man” (poor excuse for one) back his rings. Why would you accept them and be satisfied? It’s like when a criminal gives his partner “shut up money” not to divulge anything about the crime. In your case, you’re being bought with the rings. Inotherwords, your accepting multiple rings (which are supposed to signify an intent to marry and which you admit yourself are meaningless) signifies that you’re complicit in the sham, and the joke is on you. Can you not see this? The rings represent a peace offerings so that you don’t bug him about when the wedding is going to take pace, even though you say you don’t mind a slower pace. Give him back his rings. Are you that much enthralled with pretty jewelry? Don’t lower your standards. Don’t let him buy your silence because you are not any more invested in the promise of marriage than he is. EU+EU = 2EU’s. End it now.
The rings are (final) presents. A present isn’t something temporarily loaned. I wouldn’t wear rings only as lomg as I believed I was engaged to somebody. Ditch the idiot, that’s a must, but keep the rings and teach this d******d that engagement is a serious promise of permanent committment and not something indicated by a temprary loan. Do whatever you want with the rings, sell them and go on holiday, or donate money to the charity or whatever. But do keep them.
if she keeps them, she will have to say that they were outright gifts. if she says to anyone that they were engagement rings, or gifts given with the expectation of a marriage occurring, then she will have to return them.
actually, the fact that she was given multiple rings is good for her, as, when people get engaged expecting to get married, usually only one ring is given.
so she should keep them, if she is willing to lie now.
but wasn’t he lying, all along, too? remember, no wedding date has been established, and no plans for a wedding have been made.
so, based on his actions, no marriage is on the table. which means that she has a valid argument to keep the rings…all of them.
I would not want the feeling I would have if I kept the rings or sold them as suggested by some. It’s a sucky situation and like being beholden to him even though he’s a dickhead. If I don’t want him, I don’t want the stupid rings, either. Imo, it spells vengefulness, pettiness and definitely greediness. Returning the rings is saying, “I don’t need you or any reminder of what a lying piece of sh*t you are”. It’s a more mature, honorable way of dealing with someone who is not worth the poo on her shoe. And this action speaks louder than anything else she might say or do.
And, why should she set herself up to lie to others if she keeps them? That’s sinking to his level. Screw that!
Too right Tinkerbell. It’s not good for the soul to sink to an AC’s manipulative level of thought and action just because in the circumstances it appears plausible (and the lesser of evils in terms of those committed by him). If I could I would say to ariel84, don’t make a decision that may result in a blot on the sou. Don’t do something that may give you a temporary vengeful high but won’t add to your sense of integrity in the long run. .. Stay true, stay real, stay honest,be who you are and aspire to being he best person you can be, the person you want to be. Every day actions from the smallest to the largest all count. Examine your motives honestly.
did he ever set a date for the marriage? a time? a place? is he pubic about his intention (or ‘intention’) to marry (or ‘marry’) her? for starters, does he call her his fiancee–anywhere–publicly? and the “for starters” is NOT enough (imho) without other actions on his part.
is he standing by while she makes plans? if so, his silence may be (sort of) an admission, that he wants to marry her.
if the answer to the above is “no”, then no marriage is on the table. so the gifts were not gifts given with the intent that they be given in expectation/consideration of marriage. so they were outright gifts.
this is why he gave more than one ring: there is no engagement, there are no plans for an engagement; he used more than one ring to LOOK generous and that he, ‘thus’, MEANS to get married. but he doesn’t.
so when she says that the rings were gifts, she is NOT lying unless he acted like he was going to marry her. otherwise, we would be validating HIS lie. if we CHOOSE to believe that it is a lie that the rings were out right gifts, then we are CHOOSING to believe HIS lie.
he actually shot himself in the foot by giving a bunch of rings. if he had given one, diamond, ring, then his lie would be more plausible. BUT IT WOULD STILL BE A LIE unless he shows with his actions that a marriage is going to happen.
i think she should keep the rings.
if she can handle it.
Nope. You go on to say why she should NOT keep the rings. “If she handle it”. If she gives them back she’s making a clean break and doesn’t have to “handle” anything. But she’s going to do what she wants to do so that should end the discussion.
Gosh, the perils of an Internet relationship: to me if you don’t meet soon there’s always a risk of fast forwarding (read Nat’s posts on that) online. Yes you’re right about future faking. But the basis of this relationship seemed doomed from the start ie the hot and cold and then your flying to the UK (could be not fly to you?)
It’s tough. We all know! Id go NC because you’re upset anyway. I’d def de friend him on FB… NOW! You never knew him in real life first, no mutual friends, you don’t work together and live in different countries: its manageable.
Has he even written back?
I asked my mother the other day why people lie about their feelings or where they are in friendships or relationships (generally- I’d be ashamed to ever tell her about my MM affair – not good but took an even worse turn when as I was thinking about calling it off he invited another other woman to come visit with him… when he said he was coming to town to see me! Insulting or what? )
Mum is 70 with common sense but not much romantic experience (as far as I know!)
She said “people lie to you know… ‘keep the feeling’…”
That summed it up for me. It’s what I take from this post and its the way I make sense of my experience. My MM future faked and lied about having another Other woman because he wanted to think – for 5 months we were together – that he could have me in his life for an indefinite period. He may have liked me and believed that, but I don’t know- I know he liked that I liked him/ that I was the funniest person he knew/ was clever/ sexually very into him/ we had a good time together. He had a wife he was not going to leave but I didn’t care.. I really did not as figured it’d be a short lived affair. The sex was great. Why not?
But Other other woman had a boyfriend and she still wanted to see him and so did he. He said she was pressuring him to leave his wife, hysterical he didn’t. I don’t know WHY he told me about her…
It makes me physically sick to think he thought he could see us both. I really don’t know what he was thinking- he was weirdly emotionally wrecked and concurrently unemotional. I don’t like to think why I was the first he disposed off (but Nat’s posts teach me I shoukd be GRATEFUL he showed bus AC colours ) as we said goodbye he said “I don’t mind if we don’t sleep together when we meet again”. I walked away from it. Left town on holiday. Tried NC when he’d write (often) or SMS but broke it several times- mainly to clarify I’d NOT be sleeping with him again when he’d send the kind of sexy provocative one liners that worked so well before….
The point is as Nat- and my mom say- guys say things to preserve a feeling, to not sound like total creeps (like the part about MM not sleeping with me- see previous posts about why we accept Still Being Friends…
MM lied a lot but of course I didn’t know at the time. I get these “oh god…” Moments sometimes when someone at work says ” hey remember last year when we all sent out to xx bar” and refers to MM being there with his other other woman or “girlfriend”. (NB uncritically which I find sooo weird,)
He told me in vague terms about a woman in xxx country years before but nothing more…I soon found out he was messaging and skypeing her during the time he was with me.
I feel VERY stupid. But I guess it wasn’t a U turn or me not being good enough, or more or less available than the other affair girl…but really just classic MM behaviour. I think he was too emotional but in fact now think it was EU behaviour.
And I ONLY see that now. Thanks to Baggage Reclaim. And the passing of time.
Why wouldn’t he be seeing someone else besides you?
You act as if the wife didn’t exist.
The wives exists, and those men are their husbands. He was ‘seeing’ you and his wife at the same time. The real deal is you bought the fantasy until you found out he was seeing the O-OW. Then, that’s when you realized you’d been duped. It was a reality check.
The reason you allowed yourself to become involved with this MM is because of your own issues. It is your own pathology meeting his pathology, and that ‘joining-together’ usually turns into a big mess, which usually hurts many people.
Simply put, being with him made you feel good. Your perspective on the relationship produced feelings in you. You decided it was what you wanted, needed, blah for whatever ‘reasons.’
You went for the feelings, and ignored the fact that he is married, as you said, “I didn’t care about the wife.” Of course you didn’t care about the wife; otherwise, you wouldn’t be in that relationship.
You were getting what you needed and wanted, until he didn’t make you feel good anymore because you found out he had another OW on the sly.
Then, you decide he’s a liar, a cheat. But guess what? He was a liar and a cheater all along. You just have no incentive to justify it, or rationalize, or minimize, etc., anymore because it doesn’t benefit you to do so.
If your integrity, values, beliefs, etc, don’t stop you from getting involved with a married man, you get the consequences of your subsequent decisions and actions.
There is a reason why you did not care about the wife; that’s where some honesty and healing can be found if you start digging deeper. There is what happened, there are the facts, and then there is the TRUTH.
Sorry that comment was directed at Cinders – the other comments popped up in the meantime!
I recently read your book and it was like taking a snapshot of the last 6 months of my life.
He voraciously went after me to get me to “love” him. He told me he loved me and future faked all the time.
Just when I felt comfortable with Everything. He ended it, told me he loved me too much and he was too scared to get further attached. The truth is he just wanted to date someone else.
I don’t understand, I’m not easily fooled. My question is: it REALLY felt like he loved me, it felt so real…I simply cannot get over him. It’s been three weeks and I’m heart broken. I know he us no good for me but why do I miss him so much, why do I even love him?
Having been on the receiving end of this behavior, I make it a point to be sure my words/actions/feelings are always in line. Though I am certainly guilty of overextending myself work-wise, after experiencing a future faker and the whole AC debacle, I never, ever, want to even inadvertaintly do that to anyone, ever. True, sometimes folks unfold, the red flags start a flyin and I’m no longer attracted; I make those feelings clear too in the kindest way possible. I still have a hard time with western US culture vs. that of the north. Actions that back home would mean serious interest mean either nothing here or that you’re merely being used for attention. I am never sure where I stand and therefore very cautious about emotionally investing too soon. Ironically, guys that I perceive (and treat) as strict friends and a few marginalized men in the community are mislead by my behaving toward them with respect, with manners. No flirting, touching, anything remotely indicative of interest. I dunno, maybe such folk are not used to being treated respectfully or maybe I am giving off some sort of weird Northerner vibe because neither issue ever happened back home.
Noquay, I am exactly where you and more or less for the same reasons. I make my feelings and intentions clear but, at the same time, NOT by overcommunication (aka women who talk too much). I am somewhat coldly polite and take my time to form a judgement about a man’s intentions, his character. When I am ready, I make it clear how I feel about him.
I find it interesting that my initial cold politeness confuses some men. As you say, they take it as something else (why?). But at the same time, I am trying so hard to not fast forward my own thoughts that I sometimes appear cold and very slow. This weeds out the majority of ambivalent men or those looking for an ego boost. ‘Cause they don’t want to be treated with the same respect and politeness like I treat OTHERS, oh, no. They cannot bear to be treated like that. And a woman who takes time to form a judgement about them? No, maaaaam. His pants and ego are on fire and I have to adore him right now. Respect in credit so to say. Nope, nope and nope.
I don’t mind that men think I am cold nowadays. Sometimes I do get upset when I hear that. But I know that they are being mean because their ego is bruised. And it has very little to do with me.
@ cinders; i am sorry about what you are going through. how is it with your health right now? do you know details about the lump?
I am also sorry about your miscarriage, even getting pregnant unplanned, that must have been tough especially without support from the guy.
And about the guy… the thing with that kind of behavior is that it simply feels as if it is killing you. You put trust and care in it, and he did not. You are still putting care in it by trying to figure him out. Why did he do this, how could he, what is he doing now. I know exactly what a rotten feeling that is and what an unhealthy endeavor. And social media can be just killing it in that regard, so if you can avoid it, do it.
In the end, you ll know all things you should do and whqt you should not. It ia just so hard to realize them. If you knew how much i have read about these kind of things…. But in the end it is the every day that counts. And hours of your life that slip by not choosing to put focus or action on somthing else. Don’ t take this the wrong way I am just as well trying myself.
I can only say really try to focus on your health and you and put love in your life in different little ways.
You sound like a strong character by your way of writing, and you must be because girl nerds usually are 🙂 so use it!
@Lucky_Charms,@Noquay,@ICantBelieveIFoundThis! and @Catherina:
Thank you all for your kind responses and advice. It means more than you know. I have stopped messaging him, been staying off of Skype and have unfollowed him on Facebook. I wish I could say that I have unfriended him but haven’t found the strength to do it yet. I am still just so hurt and angry. Not only that he has treated a so called ‘friend’ this way but because he has just moved on so quickly. I try to stay busy with things, like reading articles on this wonderful blog and starting to do some volunteer work next week but not much is really helping me to not think about this new girl he seems so crazy about. Do these EUM/AC guys actually WANT a real relationship? I know they love the chase and come off as charming and wonderful, but he actually told me 2 weeks ago that he REALLY liked this girl and was hoping it would turn into a relationship. He said he “didn’t want to talk about her too much because he didn’t want to jinx it.”
Cinders, I want you to understand this; Every time that man moves his lips he’s lying. Men who do these kinds of things aren’t capable of a REAL relationship. You said this man was living with his parents? That’s indicative of him being a parasite. This new woman he’s targeted? He wants something from her, he doesn’t want to talk about her too much, especially to you, who may try to warn her off (although I don’t think you should at all) Does she have money? A stable job? These types are user’s, you will never make sense of his crazy. Whatever you had with him was never about you. It was all about him. The fact that he could so cavalierly tell you about this new girlfriend, is like a slap in the face. Do you really want to know anymore about it? Why? Don’t think for a moment she won’t end up exactly like you, he might marry her or he might not. But, being in a relationshit, with someone like him is no bed of roses. Don’t compare yourself with her and stop driving yourself crazy asking why. I know you are probably still in a state of shock, read everything you can about going no contact with this loser. Unfriend him, he’s not a friend! Get away from him and work on yourself, take a long break from dating. Most of all NO CONTACT! It works, Cheers, Cinders, you will be ok.
Cinders. What you’re going through is very normal. You must give yourself TIME to get him out of your heart and head. To answer your question, No they don’t want a relationship. Remember, EUM means emotionally unavailable man. And, it’s classic EU behavior to make up lies to the current gf about suddenly being so caught up in a new woman. He’s a devious manipulator who is using his “so-called feelings” for the new in order to get rid of the old. I’m sorry, Cinders, but that’s the game he’s playing. You cannot trust or believe anything he says. He doesn’t want her any more than he wants you. He’s hurt you enough. He says he ” didn’t want to jinx it.” He’s giving you that BULLSHITE because he doesn’t know what else to tell you. That’s because he’s a lying, heartless sonofabitch, The nerve of him saying that to you!!! What are you supposed to be CHOPPED LIVER? So disrespectful. Much of your interaction with him has been via skype so the physical part of NC is less difficult because you have more control of that. Just DO NOT ENGAGE in any way, shape or form. Cancel Facebook it’s a hook and one more thing which enables you to check on him and make yourself miserable. The MENTAL part of NC is the hardest. Keep strong and focused on totally flushing his sorry ass. It can be done. Wishing all the support in the world. Tink.
I’d avoid being an armchair psychologist/female buddy for this guy….the “cool” woman who acts like she’s bigger than the breakup and allows him to confide in her about new relationships. This is really insulting and insensitive on his part. Don’t give him the time of day. If he needs to discuss his current love life, tell him to talk to his male beer buddies, the people he hasn’t screwed over. Nothing good-only hurtful things-will come from you listening to his bs while disregarding your feelings. He has treated you badly..don’t let him turn you into a female buddy.
Oh Cinders…please. This man is intentionally hurting you with words. Are you two into playing emotional games…like in the movie Dangerous Liasons? If that’s your thing..well then..he is the man for you…and all your future posts here will be about dissecting the nuances of his behavior. But if you want a man who actually cares about your well-being, then move on…..always be too busy to talk whenever he tries to talk to you. And keep reading BR posts to help you figure out why you are so eager to hold onto a man who treats you like your feelings don’t matter one bit.
Cinders,
It’s just too easy for people to have an online affair that means absolutely NOTHING. It’s just a FANTASY on your part. This guy isn’t your friend and he never has been. You’re just another online girl he flirts like crazy with, swaps (nude?) pics with and he doesn’t have to do a darn thing more except sit in front of his PC and send you another line that you think means something. WTF!
That’s all this is, an online fantasy. You don’t know this man, you can’t see him on a regular basis, you don’t know his family or friends or where he works (if he does). I’m sorry to be so blunt because you’ve had a rotten time at his hands and I’m so sorry about the baby.
I really don’t understand why you still think of him as a friend after all he has done to you because with friends like him you don’t need enemies. Feel sorry for this next girl as he will treat her the same as he treated you.
Leopards don’t change their spots – ever.
There will have been plenty of girls before you and plenty after.
Don’t beat yourself up wondering anymore, why her and not me. It’s his pattern, not yours. This is all down to him, not you. Believe it.
This is your golden get out of jail free card, ditch this dude as fast as you can and definitely UNFRIEND him on Facebook, in fact block him so you can’t see any of the crap he writes on there. Just don’t go there anymore, you are making it worse for yourself in the long run.
You made an all too human mistake like most of us here, the trick is to learn from your mistakes so you don’t do it again.
Cinders, with NC you will get better. When you start seeing him without the rose-coloured glasses, you realize who he really is. A decent person who values, respects and cares for you would never treat you like the guy did. You know that you deserve much, much better. Focus now on healing yourself and treating yourself better. It does not matter what the guy thinks, how he could get over you so quickly etc., that is no longer your concern. As said, consider yourself lucky that you got rid of him.
Further, if you are a very sensitive, caring person, I would maybe think twice to engage in online relationships again. There are so many crazy people there, living off double-lives and fantasies with just minimal effort put into any interaction. It is much better to see people in real life so you can quickly assess who they are and what they do.
Cinders, I think you’re asking “do these guys actually want a relationship” but you want to know if YOU are WORTHY of love and relationship. This is what NML talks about external validation. YOU ARE WORTHY OF LOVE and a RELATIONSHIP. Absolutely. But, this guy is never ever ever going to give it to you. Ever.
I know it took me a while to get over reading that it’s not important if he’s capable of wanting and giving a relationship to anyone. I thought those comments (directed towards my story) were dismissive. “But I NEED to know!”. As if my sanity depended on this answer. Well, after almost 1.5 out of this insanity and getting out, I can tell you that I know feel it in me that it indeed does not matter whether he is capable of giving this to anyone. I think he’s not capable. I think it’s also absolutely crucial that you learn to understand the different between “wanting a relationship” and “giving this relationship to someone”. It is words vs actions. There are many amazing articles by NML regarding the disconnect these kind of EU people have. They are disconnected from actions. I think this is in part why it’s relatively easy for them to say all those nice things and then not to follow up on them (and justify in their mind why they could not and still feel good about themselves). In short, these people are pretty effed up. The man you describe is very young of course but he is extremely immature even for his age! Extremely. He also lacks what should be the main attractive trait to you in the future – integrity. Integrity is all about action. Integrity is also not about age (in case you decide to jump the “older men” train – been there, done that ).
It sounds like you don’t value your love, what you have to give. And you also don’t value your body (why put it in such danger with a strange adolescent minded someone?) You are the most precious thing YOU have. You are worthy of love and affection and EFFORT. But you have to give all of this to yourself first. That guy is nothing. He is not worthy of your analyzing him. Analyze YOU. What do YOU REALLY WANT? What kind of life do you want to live? Imagine yourself already having this kind of life. Now think back and think of the kind of steps you need to make in order to get to that life.
To the poster named Why….I just wanna say, I AM SO PROUD OF YOU! I apologize for that patronizing comment – it is not meant to be patronizing but it often comes across as such. If you are the “WHY” who was in so much turmoil a few weeks ago, and seemingly unwilling to bite the bullet and let go of an EUM, you have come SO FAR in such a short amount of time. I love it. Maybe I will change my compliment – I am in AWE of you. Good job. Well done.
Hehe, thanks, Elgie R. I don’t know if I deserve it though! It’s so much easier to see through other people’s conundrums than my own. On a personal, rational and mental level I do understand those things and how they applied to my own situation. But IMPLEMENTING them in my every day thinking is a whole different story. Lots of self-discipline and orientation and keep snapping myself on the wrist when irrationality creeps in and I get seduced by ambiguity or pain. I have a loooong way to go. But BR and all the stories here helped me immensely. I’ve been digging through old posts and re-reading some of them for 2 or 3 times. This website and the community around it is amazing. I wouldn’t be where I am now without all of you, ladies.
Cinders,
No he does not want a relationship. If he did he would have got out from behind his computer and had one. Sitting crouched over a laptop is not a relationship. Here are a random selection of the things that meaningful relationships are built upon:
Going for a walk. Meeting up for a coffee. Meeting their friends and family. Going to an art gallery/musical performance. Helping out when the other has a lot of chores. Cooking for each other. Go shopping together. To men who do this, the person in the screen is not that different to live porn. And you were attaching a huge amount of meaning to words when there were NO actions to substantiate them. There are other posts on fantasy relationships here that you might find useful.
Ohh, such a great post! I was remembering that out of control, unaware person was me, putting a guy through the mill (fortunately not for long; he found a more grown-up lady after and they are still happily married). Now, 22 years on, I am still single but hopeful, healed on the inside and happy. It takes time, but take heart – it’s so worth learning to love you for you and not just through someone else.
I am just starting no contact – literally today – again for the 3rd and last time. We went 6 weeks the first time, and after some pushing from him through texts I gave in. Bring on the promises – marriage, change, babies… then fights. Then again, no contact for 2 weeks and again more “I’m sorry’s” and promises. So we spend two weeks talking, seeing each other, talking about marriage, what we need to do to be together – only to have this weekend blow up.
This week he was out of town for business. Friday I had plans to do a group dinner so we all could meet another friend’s new girlfriend. Well my now again Ex became upset because I stayed out later than he would have liked (playing board games and darts). I’m inconsiderate, crave attention from other men, can’t see his side, I’m cheating on him, etc. (mind you these are friends both guys and girls that I have known for 16 or more years, no romantic involvement whatsoever). And as I reread the mean long texts about how I should be earning his trust (never did anything to lose it) and how I can never see his side, and that it’s the principle of things because I wouldn’t want him out that late with girls(honestly don’t care how late he stays out)I want to cry!
As I read the texts, I wondered today if I even liked myself for allowing someone like this back into my life. To control when I come home, what friends I can and cannot see, and then question my level of commitment and his ability to trust me when I’ve gone against him. But the answer is, I do like myself. And I’m done with the empty promises and his controlling manipulative behavior. This site is a big reason why I’m finding the ability to love myself and draw boundaries. Empty promises draw you in because they are nice to believe. But real promises with follow through are what we deserve.
Hd moving on – “To control when I come home, what friends I can and cannot see, and then question my level of commitment and his ability to trust me when I’ve gone against him.” I don’t know your whole story, but that one sentence you wrote there shows huge signs of a controlling, abusive relationship. His empty promises and manipulative behavior are just the tip of the iceberg here. You deserve someone who will make you feel great about being yourself, who will support you going out and doing what you love with people you care for, and who will trust you when you tell them you love them and aren’t cheating. I’m glad you are starting NC today. Read this comment from me and others here as support, and whenever you feel the need to break NC, come back to this site and post here instead. Cut all ties and move far away from this guy. Show yourself the ultimate love by cutting him out. All the best to you!
I think you already know this but RUN. I went through that once too. Started out so much like you posted. All my male friends were guys I’ve known for 10+ years with no romantic history. Nothing I did ever proved he could trust me. In the end all my friends got pushed away, he put key logging software on my computer, read my emails, hacked into my credit card accounts, he would ‘inspect’ me for cheating. It was awful. I should have realized I would never make someone like that secure and that control isn’t love.
Thank you TeaTime! I appreciate the support and insight. I don’t know why it is so difficult at times to move forward, especially when the signs and red flags are staring me in the face saying ‘this is not good’. I thought maybe this time around he would get it, he’s regrouped – seen the light, remembers the good things and wants to work on keeping them good, but that’s never the case is it? I think the support and this blog has helped me wake up from whatever fantasy I was in. It wasn’t reality. I have blocked his number and saved his messages in a folder as a reminder not to turn back around!
Cinders, You said you haven’t found the strength to unfriend him on Facebook, but you do have it, you just don’t realize it!!! Its very evident to see that you have incredible strength, from reading all the things you’ve been through with this guy. You’re a strong person and though it seems hard, unfriending him on Facebook is the first step to cutting the cord. Believe me, I speak from experience. My ex was fast forwarding our relationship then started blowing hot and cold then started talking about our “casual relationship” that’s about when I slammed the brakes and said “Um what just happened” And from that point on it was the fade out from him. Man, I wish I found this site back then, I would have done things so differently but anyways. I unfriended him after seeing he was in a new relationship oh about a week after having been broken up with me. I was ANGRY and very hurt. I couldn’t bear to see the posts and thought this would be the best way possible. It sucked and it was hard but I got over him and what do you know, about two months later I get a text from him asking me how I was and that he couldn’t find me on Facebook and was worried about me. Hahahaha, this literally made me laugh out loud and I told him “You didn’t want to be in my life so why would I want you in mine?” He made some excuse and it turns out his new relationship ended with the new girl who he was so crazy about anddddd he was prob texting me to lick his wounds and stroke his ego. Nopeeeee, he got NONE of that. I found this site by then and would not take him back even though he tried.
Anyway best of luck to you getting over this guy. If you cut contact with him, he’ll start to wonder about you and probably initiate contact to make sure he’s still got you on his line. Don’t be there. You’re better than that and deserve better. I’ve gotten some wonderful advice and support from this site and the readers that comment and that is always a welcome needed reminder. You deserve better.
Nat this is so awesome, so true. I am still reeling from the end of relationship with the MM I was seeing. There was so much talk of how much he liked me and wished we could be together but when I said well then why not? He backed up hard over and over. Now his wife is pregnant so it’s all moot. But so difficult to get over! I’ve stayed NC for a few weeks now and we just had a conversation on friday. it was his birthday and I said happy birthday (my bad, I know). He came flying down to my office in seconds to say thanks and how are you. He clearly misses me, but then went through the whole routine of talking about his wife and their pregnancy so that I don’t get misled again. So hard to hear!
I feel like there was this fantasy of the future that is just dead and I’m still reeling from (especially when I see and talk to him and can see that he still likes me).
He said again (for like the 100yh time) that he hopes we can be friends. I so wish we could. Partly because I miss him and want to be around him and partly because if there’s ever a hope that hell want to be together later, we would need to stay friends. Otherwise I guess he’ll just forget me. But I don’t want to interfere intheir life anymore and it is so painful to be around. I emailed him an hour after and said that it is so sad but so impossible for me to be friends with him. I can’t listen to him talk about his life with her. He said maybe we can be friends eventually. I don’t know what to do though. I need space to continue to heal from this but it’s so hard :(.
Anyways, to the point of the article.. He overestimated his ability to make this fantasy real and we are both reeling in the consequences ( at least I am). So sad right now.
Hi Leanne,
Nice to hear you posting again. I haven’t posted myself in a while, in the first instance because I was feeling pretty good and making progress and didn’t feel like raking anything over, and then because I went and sabotaged myself (as I do), and ended up falling into the throws of what I would define as an emotional affair/emotional airbag situation with ex-MOM. So annoyed with myself! As lizzp wisely noticed in me, I wasn’t quite showing up as ready to let go. You were right lizzp.
He had basically spent a couple of weeks blowing hot and telling me how much he loved me and how unhappy he was, how I should know he would choose me 1000x times over his wife (err, but he didn’t, doesn’t, and he got her pregnant, but he has to stay for his kids because she is a nasty, evil bitch who would raise his kids to hate him if he left. A very good fit for this article I think.
So, I’ve wriggled free of it again now, not without pain, but admittedly not as much as in the past because I knew I didn’t really want what he has to offer anymore. I pointed out to him we were both being emotionally unfaithful, and that he was using me as an emotional airbag by complaining about his wife and his life to me. He didn’t even have an awareness of this, he had thought we were being friends. Once he got it he realised he needed to back off.
I tell you this Leanne because this is just the same thing that happens to you in your interaction with him. You can’t be friends, you’re not friends. To ever be with him (and I’m sure you wouldn’t want to be by the time it ever became possible), you need to part properly and he needs to sort out his life.
Lets you and I help each other break this unhealthy addiction once and for all? I still have about six weeks of work left with him unfortunately, but I WILL handle it.
Hugs Colly
Rags Mom – are you still here reading?
Colly,
You know his wife’s not nasty or evil, right? It’s unclear whether it’s you or him calling her those names. In reality, she’s a wonderful woman who trusted her husband when he promised her he would be faithful to her.
Perhaps next time he criticizes her in this way, you will tell him she won’t have to teach her kids to hate him. They will hate him when they find out he is a lying, cheating POS who not only lies and cheats on their mother, but on them too. While he’s out screwing all of his other women, he is cheating them out of having a decent father. They will remember that for the rest of their lives and see him for what he truly is.
(And if it’s you calling her those names, imagine what both his wife and your husband will be calling you when they find out about the affair you two had.)
Crystal, No its not me calling her those names – its him, this is what he says to me about her. I feel sorry for her to be honest, she’s stuck married to a man who cannot commit to anyone or anything.
Hi Colly. Sounds like you’re making progress in getting him out of your system. Time will heal your wounds as long as you’re NC (as much as possible). Dig deep and continue living your life minus that dirty dog. So proud of you as any of us would be that has been following your story. I hope you won’t entertain the idea of FWB. When you’ve fallen in with Mr. No good MM you must cut the cord entirely. Wishing you the best, always. Tink.
Sorry for your sadness.
Leanne, I got entangled with a MM and it ended when he turned up one day and announced his wife was expecting a baby the very next day. It was a terrible blow, it was a great big slap of reality in the face when I had been in denial for months.
Leanne, this guy is a bullshitter. He wanted to be together but when you said yes he backtracked. He says he wants to be your friend. Do you believe that? Or is friendhip just easier for him than the knowledge that you actually ‘get’ him and don’t like him?
Well done for the 2 weeks NC. You’ve seen how breaking it didn’t do you any good. You see that you can’t handle hearing the reality of his life (news of the wife and pregnancy); I couldn’t either and stuck at NC.
I hope you can stick with NC and remove the rose tinted glasses/ blinkers. He’s no good for you.
Thanks MaryW. That is a terrible story on your end too. So hard to deal with but it is nice when you finally come out of denial, hey?
As for the MM in my story, I think he does truly want to be friends because we had so much fun together before all this happend (we were friends for about 2 years first). But I also think he enjoys the attention too and well, I don’t think it’s particularly healthy for me. I would like to be friends on some level, but it’s tough to handle and I need to be well. So I’m trying to continue NC and continuing to look for a new job.
For some reason I’ve calmed down today and I can see him again for the jerk he is a lot of the time. So up and down going through the grief process, but I’m glad to be going through it!! Thanks for your comment!
Leanne,
I was thinking the same about this guy lying. If he really wanted to be with you he would put in some effort and be demoting you.
I went through this recently too but not with a mm. He’s a guy I’ve met in real life maybe 5 time through different things. The rest is always lazy communication like FB updates. He comes out of the blue to declare his love for me and how he realizes I am the woman he realized he wants to marry.
The part that is missing is I know he recently was dumped by someone who didn’t even tell him the truth as to why it was ending. Now he’s just sniffing around for an ego stroke and instant fantasy relationship. In reality, if he was serious, I know he still has my number and could have called and arranged dates anytime. Instead I’m getting a crumb diet of FB messages.
Anyway, I get the feeling your mm is just trying to keep you around as someone he can call on to stroke his ego, when he needs one again. The friend card was just to keep you around and manage down your expectations for now until he wants to blow hot again.
Just as the guy who FB messages me, they are both looking forego stroking and to put you on lay say for when the need an insta relationship.
My goodness, Leanne. The AC could not be more clear about wanting to stay married and wanting to have his fun with you on the side. Sounds just like the ACMM I was seeing. Some people are romance junkies…men included. I think ACMMen who are actually nice people for the most part, but a little bored by the family man role and craving some romance, can be very appealing – but they are never leaving the security of the already established wife and family. Actually, he doesn’t sound very nice, as he badmouths the woman he’s married to. That’s poor character, IMO. Also, you do not need to “leave the door open” – that is just your way of staying stuck.
Thank you, Nat! I love this blog and find your gems of insight are so helpful while working through a very tough breakup.
My ex and I were together for about a year when he broke up with me the day before our anniversary, saying that he was unhappy, that he wanted to travel, that he didn’t know that I was what he wanted in the long-term. After we were apart for about a month, we got back together and he told me he was going to move to Europe for a while (he is going on 27 this year, btw), as he had been so smitten with Germany when he had visited for the first time earlier in the year. My family is also from there and I lived there as well, which is a bit of a sore spot that he loved it so much! I know, so shallow, but it was my definitely my interest and desire that inspired his.
At first he said he didn’t know when he would be back, but after a month apart, he told me he was going to come back for me, that he loved me, and that he could see a future with me (he had previously said that he didn’t want to get married or have kids, but then said he hadn’t wanted to admit it to himself that he really did). Each time he told me these things, I believed him whole-heartedly. I don’t say these kinds of things lightly, and thought he would not either.
This “I am coming back” talk lasted for about 7 months with 2 breaks in-between as he would pull the, “I just don’t see a future anymore, I think we had different outlooks on life and goals”, but then the next day would frantically call, text, skype, or email with the same, “I love you, I miss you, I don’t know how to verbalize my feelings sometimes, I messed up, please take me back! I’m ready, I swear!”. I believed it every time, as I thought that he was just confused and that all relationships have their rough spots. Things would then go well for a bit, then run hot and cold, and then he would cut me off emotionally and say we weren’t good together again. Each time this happened I grieved. I lost myself in trying to put something too broken and hollow back together, and had almost no self-esteem left. I only validated myself in making this relationship work.
Finally in September after he had done this for a 3rd time, I said no more, and he sent not only me the “I love you, I miss you, I messed up” email, but also my mom. And my best friend. He then bought a ticket back to the U.S. saying that he was going to prove how worth it he was and how much he wanted to make it work, and that instead of trying, he was going to make this happen. As much as I didn’t want to believe it and should have known better from his actions speaking MUCH louder than words in the past, I did. I let myself fall in love with him at his best, and with the idea of him coming home and really trying to make things work. I let myself believe that he was ready and interested in creating a strong and loving connection.
After 3 weeks of taking a break from talking (4 days before he was supposed to arrive), I sent him an email saying that I hope had plans for a place to stay, a job, etc. and that I would see him, but didn’t want to move fast by any means. He responded that he wasn’t coming anymore, and that he needed to keep doing work on himself.
Obviously, I was devastated. Even more so when I found out that he was dating a 21 y.o. who he had sent me pictures and a video of (hello lesson of using no contact, wow! Should have listened to Nat!) while trying to be “friends” and supporting him on his journey to getting better.
I’m realizing over and over that his actions and words did NOT match up, and that he never intended to do anything other than get an ego stroke by telling me he could see a future. For all the money I have spent on therapy and anti-depressants, I could have been spending more time on myself, my hobbies, and finding the right person, and that’s exactly what I am doing now. We are now 3 full months no-contact, and while I am not fully healed, I am realizing that showing up, and “walking the talk” are so important to me. Both me in my words and actions, and in a partner’s words and actions.
Thanks Nat for the reminders on this, and how to show up for my own life. It is so hard to see outside of this while it is happening, but I hope that I can continue to keep the faith that there are those who DO show up, and will find the right person for me.
maiwi, as I was reading through your story, I kept thinking “he probably has someone else”. And surely enough, you then write he has. What a smuck! Luckily for you, he is someone else’s pain in the as$ now. You’ve dodged a bullet.
This sort of situation recently happened to me and it was certainly confusing! I’m glad to see you wrote from the perspective of a fast-forwarder/ future-faker. I couldn’t understand why my new date was telling me one night how ready they were ready to have something real with someone and couldn’t get enough of me to a few nights later making a quick exit. If someone is scared off because they realize that I am not looking for fling and that I expect them to stay true to their word then I’m not losing someone important.
“ready to have something real with someone” suggests your date had some insight that s/he previously had ‘un-real’ dealings. I’d understand that as an amber flag.
But I think this sort of thing is very common. A lot of people are very hurt (men and women) and it’s easier for people like your date to have an unreal/ fantasy connection than anything “real”.
You didn’t lose anyone important if what’s important to you is something more than a fling! 🙂
I got too excited about things too quickly. The worst part was feeling responsible but I’m working on changing my perspective.
Excellent read. Thank you
Thanks @colly, glad to see you are still here as well. And yes @rags mom, hope you are still here and doing well.
I would love to work together to get over this. I don’t know what’s wrong with me! He has treated me like total shit, has gotten his wife pregnant, has come around talking about their life like I’m just supposed to enjoy hearing about it. And all I want to do is cry. I should want to never talk to him again!
I think he’s got this really sweet side that I love, but underneath or in tandem, there is a terribly selfish and immature man who is just enjoying the attention. And he is married and while he waffles, has never fully committed to the idea of wanting to be together. Clearly he should stay put with the baby and all, but if he really loved me he’d be saying and doing different things, no? I think I have totally deluded myself about who he is and how he feels. I am so sad about it, but I HAVE to move on!
Baby steps I guess. I wish I could just fall out of love with him, then this wouldn’t be so hard. Right now all I can think about is them having their life together and so much fun and how come he doesn’t love me? Talking to him on Friday has really set me back. But I have otherwise been NC. I am opting out of everything at work that involves him. And really trying to stay away.
How has your MOM been since you said these things to him @colly? And how have you been feeling?
Hugs xo .. Glad you are still here 🙂
@Leanne, I have a whole new perspective on your situation. I silently judged you and the other OW on this board until something happened to me recently that I wrote about, but it disappeared. I feel for you, I really do!!!
Awe, thanks Dianne. It’s nice to know that there are supportive people out there. What happened to you that you wrote about that disappeared? I am interested in hearing your story!
@Leanne, ugh, I just don’t have the energy to write the full thing anymore. But long story short I went on vacay and fell hard for a guy who was flirting outrageously with me from the second he saw me — no wedding ring. I just assumed he was single. Halfway through our “flirtation” he told me he was married. I wish I could say at that point I told him to get lost, but he was my tour guide and I couldn’t really. I was in a foreign country. Anyway, he kept coming at me like gangbusters and eventually things went further. NOT my proudest hour.
Hi Leanne,
I feel…irritated with myself and him, and just angry really. I’m annoyed he keeps using me as his airbag, annoyed that his words and actions don’t match (haha even he has noticed that himself now), annoyed that I can’t seem to get away from him with work. Then I’m annoyed at myself for being slowly sucked in again, for responding and being pulled into the flattery again. My alarm bells were ringing every time we spoke but I just couldn’t quite stop myself. I feel horrible, such a weak crappy person.
I’m also very very fearful, which is why I can’t quite let go I guess. I’ve done a fair bit of work on myself since I last had a flurry of posting, and understand now that I am pretty codependent (not 100%) and have a pattern of being drawn to trying to extract love from narcissists who aren’t capable. This comes from having a narcissist father and a codependent mother. I recognise the trigger I feel for such men as the same, “How can I perform to please and win my father?” feeling. Honestly, its pretty devastating to recognise that about yourself.
I’ve understood that my husband is not a narcissist, and I’m afraid that this feeling I have that I “settled for him in the end” was actually maybe just normal, steady maturation of love, but because I’m still stuck in child mode trying to extract love from parents who aren’t capable I’m doomed for life. I have so much awareness now but I’m finding it SOOO hard to do something about it and treat myself well.
At the end of the day I just can’t seem to forgive myself. My harsh inner critic tells me I should know better all the time – something else I was told in childhood.
So, NC for me…and NC for you sounds like a good plan. Leanne, your exMM and mine sound like they are the same person, just mine is more jaded and has his third child on the way.
Men like this don’t have women as friends truly, they are ego strokers for them, and the more they can have the better. They are greedy, they just want more. Well you and I aren’t going to be their cake anymore are we?
xx
Thank you Natalie,
I have definitely indulged in fantasy relationships in the past, and when fantasy turns to reality (i.e. meeting face to face!) the guy has always done a U-turn. No more fantasy relationships! With dating I now try to meet up with the person as soon as possible, consider the first meet as just that – a meeting rather than a date, and try to keep expectations at a reasonable/ realistic level.
Look forward to your next post!
Hi MaryW. I presume you’re talking about online dating. I like your new(?) philosophy. Meet him asap because that will help to allay the temptation to fantasize. Consider it a meeting rather than a date. Agreed. As far as expectations are concerned, my view is that it’s better to have NONE as that way a disappointment is not such a big deal. After all, you’re meeting a stranger so what is there to expect? I hope you do okay with this endeavor, Mary, because OLD shouldn’t be attempted until you’re very secure and stable about who you are and what you want in a long term rship. Even then, it still can be hazardous. A thick skin is essential. Years ago my experience was to have one date a piece with two different guys. They weren’t bad people and the dates were, on a scale of 1-10, a 6. But then I met a man who has been so “right” for me that we have become lifelong friends. So, overall, for me it was not a negative experience. I would just say be very AWARE, careful and listen to your gut. DO NOT ignore that inner voice, because it won’t steer you wrong. Good luck. Tink.
I think the first flip flop U turn should be enough. I was sort of meh about the first flip flop and moved on immediately. The second flip flop disappointed me because he said he wasn’t ready and I know thats a red flag so I was like fine what do you want me to say. The third flip flop was him hitting on someone else in a way that made it clear he wanted me to see – and this was just a week after him telling me he wasn’t ready but was so into me. At this point I knew he was an a–hole. Yet I stayed ‘friends’, not pursuing him, not expecting anything, but being there to be his fake date when he called – I didn’t wait around for him, I had my own life, but I was available to him. The fourth flip flop was him hitting on me, and us trying to date briefly. He backed out of that one – even though he had initiated it. His feelings could only ever last for about a week at a time. Sometimes only a night. I felt really awful at this point. And he still kept hitting on me.
The thing is — I knew he was an AC, I had no illusions about him, and over time I didn’t even respect him or like him much. My male friends right now, I have never nor do I intend to ever sleep with any of them. I think in most cases I never even wanted to. These are my friends. I think one of the themes of this post seems to be – he’s not your friend. He never was and never will be. Once you had romantic feelings and he was a jerk and / or you actually had sex and then it ended — thats it, there is no friendship and no need for one. Why are we so resistant to let people go? We dont have to stay friends just in case he grows a heart and a mind. Let go everyone.
I let go of the EU after the last flip flop which was us having sex and him treating it yet again as a one-night stand; we were good friends. I’m not clear why he couldn’t date me and why he then wanted to stay friends and why he then wanted to have sex with his friend — actually I am quite clear, he’s a jerk, and an opportunist and knew I was still interested. This time I was done too, i realized that I had not wanted him as a person for months, that the fantasy had kept the momentum going, and I just never called him again. No explanations no nothing and neither did he. I now avoid our social group a bit, and I realized that it is no loss to me. None of this is a loss to me really. What is a loss is the weeks I spent thinking about him. What is a loss is that when he said the usual ‘I can’t see a relationship’ or worse ‘I won’t fall in love with you’ while continuing to pursue me, I didn’t just laugh in his face and tell him to eff the eff off. Thats what I feel the loss of.
What is a loss is that when he said the usual ‘I can’t see a relationship’ or worse ‘I won’t fall in love with you’ while continuing to pursue me, I didn’t just laugh in his face and tell him to eff the eff off. Thats what I feel the loss of.
@Suki, I understand it, because sometimes a person is saying one thing and doing quite another. If a man is saying “I can’t love you” while simultaneously scrunching up his nose at you, and looking at you like you are warmed over dog crap, then the vast majority of us would quickly move away. It’s when they say something like that while staring at you with hungry eyes, kissing you, or contacting you every 5 seconds, that your mind dismisses the words. I have no idea how it is that guys like this can be so dual but my guess is they are struggling on some level. Intimacy obviously scares the crap out of them. So they pull/push, and being women we try to be understanding about it. But those guys never really come to a place of peace with emotional intimacy and it’s not our job to teach them.
Diane, I like your comment. Have you read “He’s scared, She’s scared”? It pretty much explains the logic behind push and pull and was an eye opener for me (thanks to BR gals who recommended the book).
I have one word of warning though. “So they pull/push, and being women we try to be understanding about it”. We shall never be “understanding” about anything like this. The only way we can influence this situation is by withdrawing from such a person. You NEVER win with such people. It is a lot of work to overcome this push/pull or, in NML’s terms, hot and cold behavior. And 99.9% of people (especially men. hello, socialisation!) never finish this work. They just jump from one understanding partner to another. It is all justified in their mind. And sometimes being close to someone does feel like the biggest threat “I have to get out or I’ll die”. But then another wave comes “I have to get her back” and the pattern establishes.
Now, my happily girlfriended exEUM has a gf who is very “understanding”. He never asked him if he has cheated on her. She’s too scared to do that (I bet because she knows the answer). She is VERY understanding. She NEVER leaves her stuff at his apartment because it makes him feel uncomfortable and she thinks she’s being respectful this way. She is not asking him for much. And yes, after 4 months having met her, we met (I did not know he had a gf) and cheated on her. And then continued to love bomb me. No matter how “understanding” she was, how little space she was taking, it was always too much for him. So he escaped into endless business trips and conferences and travels and what not. And when geography was not enough, he hid in an affair. Then I became “too much” and he went into full loving mode with his gf. Then back. There is no winning with these people. They never change either.
I was at my therapist’s office last week, and I asked her “I know we’re out of time but can you clarify to me one of those ‘truths’ about dating? I no longer understand what’s normal and what’s not. Is it okay for a man, after an initial moment of closeness (can be sex or anything or just a weekend together) to pull away for some time? We are socialized with that rubberband theory installed in our head. But it hurts me a lot still. Is it something that always happens?” And she told me that no, it does not always happens. It ALWAYS happens when a man wants to create ambiguity and is already training you for a status quo. She also said that a mature man would actually want more closeness and explore being with you MORE after you just had a good time. Not run AWAY from you.
Why, it also doesn’t help that we’re told oh so many times how men from Mars need “space” from time to time and go back to their caves. Many books full of such rubbish. What helped me to understand this issue was when I read somewhere that a man who’s really into you wouldn’t disappear (or anything similarly idiotic) because he’d be too afraid to lose you. It’s that very simple. I’m no longer confused.
Very true Mephista and Why, I think that men that create this ambiguity are setting you up for low expectations. And yes we are socialized to please others. And nowadays we are socialized to not be needy, to not create waves, no drama, no fuss. We’re cool girls. So when he says he’s not interested, we say, fine. We walk away (and of course he comes back) – we dont say, which we should ‘you old f–wit, why did you pursue me for weeks and months, invite me to dinners, and movies and drinks, and do fake dates if you werent interested?’. We should get angry so that we are repulsed by him.
I go drinking with male friends but its different then, its not a fake date – with all male friends, i wait a long time after I know them to go out drinking with them. With one of my male drinking buddies that I think might fancy me, I have never been to dinner, never been for movies, its only ever drinks and its not very often – and for the first few months I knew him I would always ask him out for coffee. In the morning. On a workday 🙂 Boundaries people! Lets have more of those! And I like spending time with him, I just want to maintain boundaries.
The thing is that we are waiting always for him to make a move, and we tend to please him by responding. We enable them so so much.
These men are broken. And they’re not good people. I’m broken in some ways – but I am still a decent person to others, I still want connection, real connection, and I still want to explore something real with someone, something with respect and progression and continuity. I am not afraid of intimacy, perhaps I am just afraid that I am unlovable. And perhaps I now attract a type of man that cannot really be giving.
I have learnt from past relationships; no one is that great, you just need someone that you can spend time with, that isn’t a total jerk, that is decent etc. This is really hard to find its true but at the same time I know that perfection is not what I am looking for. These men ARE looking for perfection. If you call them out on their behavior you are not perfect; you’ve ruined it! I have been told this clearly, that them behaving badly and me pointing it out, ruined it. I’m not a lovely princess anymore. I bwoke it. They’re a bunch of children.
@Why, yes, I read that. Good book. And yes, we women should not try to understand them. It’s sometimes in our nature to do so, but we should not. We should try to understand ourselves.
Why. I believe what your therapist told you is absolutely right. When he wants “space” and distances himself after an enjoyable date, that’s a RED flag. Either he didn’t think as much of the “good time” as you did (interpret as may not be interested) or he has his reasons for not encouraging closeness and progression.
WOW! I can’t believe how alike your story is to mines.. Your words really resonated with me. I was messing around with a guy for the past 9 months, we were “friends”, at least that’s what I considered us to be. He wasn’t ready to pursue a relationship which was a red flag, but I liked him a lot and stuck around. I too didn’t pursue him, didn’t expect anything, and lived my life..But every time he called, I made myself available.
There were things he did that made him an AC, and I was just too into him that I quickly moved past it. He liked to make me jealous, every time we went out, and say we conversed with a bartender or people in general, he would think I was into other guys and not him, and say “well I don’t care”, insecure maybe? Also we live in two different boroughs and he had a construction job near my house,so we went to a bar around my house and talked with one of the bartenders who was female, and a month later he told me that he went back, and talked to her the whole night and “she’s his new best friend.”.. HA that stung a little, oh and the drunken “I love you’,”and that’s when I knew I was officially over it.
For the first 5 months of developing a “friendship” with him and then messing with him, I grew really attached. I mean we talked every day, hung out a lot, and then after those 5 months it all changed. We talked less frequently, when I would initiate hanging out he was “busy”, and everything became on his terms. I fell into thinking that I did something wrong,& maybe he’s seeing someone else, and whether or not he was or wasn’t, I have no right to say anything because we were only “friends”.
Overtime I realized how much I disliked him,and realized he was a jerk, but I don’t know,I continued to want him.. The problem is that I was seeking validation from him, and being around him brought out my insecurities..If he had wanted to me, he would’ve tried giving a relationship a shot, but after all that time it didn’t happen, so every chance I got to be around him, I wanted to show him that I was enough…
Two weeks ago, I told him that I can longer fool around with him, and that I hope we can still be friends.. I got the”I care for you very much, and I consider you a real friend” speech, and guess what? I haven’t heard from him since. BUT I finally realized that he was never a REAL friend..
Suki.. When you said this “Why are we so resistant to let people go? We don’t have to stay friends just in case he grows a heart and a mind. Let go everyone.” That’s exactly what I’m doing. I’ve been resistant to letting him go, and just maybe if we stay friends.. I might have a chance.
NO MORE OF THAT starting tonight..I have to let go, there’s no need for wanting a friendship. I haven’t spoken to him in the last two weeks, and I won’t contact him, and he hasn’t contacted, I don’t know if he will.. But just like you, it isn’t a loss to me either. What sucks is all the time spent thinking about him, a lot often lately, and ending something that never really began…
Thank you Suki for telling your story because it made me realize that he was never my friend, and that I need to let go.. With letting go, I will work on myself, and start loving myself more, and just take this as a lesson learned.
Thanks, again and I wish u the best..
He Shall Not Be Named has been on my mind a lot more than usual lately, so I have paid a visit to the site and of course the most recent post is exactly what I’ve been stewing about.
Having been used as an ego boost has crushed and ground up my good feelings about myself. It would be so much easier to deal with if we split due to irreconcilable differences or growing apart or incompatible life goals, instead of because he never genuinely wanted, cared for or adored me in the first place. It was all about him, his wounds, his tingly feelings and then finally his bandaged and boosted ego and I was no longer needed. For a few months I felt desirable and connected to someone and it turns out it was all a mirage. It’s just very hard to cope with that, turning back into a pumpkin at midnight like Cinderella. I deleted him from social media months ago and have resisted my urges to revisit his various accounts but he is still in my thoughts all the time. I am not a woman with many prospects for love and the whole thing has been so crummy (pun intended). Love and support to you all.
Scarydogmother, I think your line speaks volumes for us all: For a few months I felt desirable and connected to someone
That’s why we can’t let go after they start blowing cold. We’re like Pavlov’s dog, returning again and again for that one time they make us feel connected and wanted again. We can’t even begin to wrap our minds around NOT wanting THEM. When we look at these men with reality, we can see they are not very nice to us. But that desire to be wanted is stronger than the desire to be treated nicely. We start twisting ourselves around, trying to turn them into people who treat us nicer – we complain, we “play” at NC hoping they’ll straighten up. But they know they don’t have to change anything about their behavior, because we are junkies for attention, and they only need to give crumbs and the panties will come down. If we even THINK about demanding better attention, they’ll pull away…they were never emotionally invested, so they can disappear and play with their latest new junkie. Should one of the other junkies start pulling away, then these ACs start making the rounds of the old junkies, seeing who is so desperately lonely that his crumbs will be acceptable again..
scarydogmother – It was all about him. You have to keep reminding yourself of that. You could have been a supermodel perfect in every way person for him and it wouldn’t have changed the outcome- Bc it’s all about him, and he doesn’t care who he steps on or over to feed his own ego. You are a women who does have prospects for love. I think you may be feeling that way now because that is how he has made you feel. But that is not a fact, merely your perception of things because of the hurt you have gone through. Love to you!
I’ve known my EUM for over 10 yrs, dated half of that, went NC for several yrs after we broke up. He’s resurfaced years later. We actually get along quite well. But let me tell you, in all these years, he has NOT changed! They don’t change, I’m sorry to tell you. His song and dance now is literally no different than it was 10 yrs ago. Still non committal as ever, griping about being done wrong by an ex, wanting to be “alone” right now and wanting all the benefits of a relationship MINUS any responsibility or commitment. Nothing has changed. It’s like we’re stuck in time and it’s 10 yrs ago! These guys are users. No matter how nice they seem. And the end result is feeling completely mind fucked with all the push and pull, blowing cold and hot. I need to go NC again, bc I don’t miss any of this. Not worth it.
I think some people talk a good game, and some can even act a good game, but some people are what we call in these parts “full of shit,” or they are “talking out of the side of their mouth,” or my personal favorite “They are talking out of their ass.”
Intelligent people are the worst because they really know how to talk shit.
They sound so brilliant, … make so much sense, but, yep, in real life they don’t practice what they preach, or follow through on their vivid proclamations, and when confronted, they either don’t respond to your inquiries, or they all of a sudden have a different perspective, now that they are in the situation, and they want to justify their actions.
And don’t get me started on good writers. They will have you on word-crack faster than a speeding bullet. They mean none of it; don’t really understand it themselves, and don’t have the courage to save themselves much less a society of millions.
So, although I might find someone interesting, intelligent, or like the idea, …like someone, am attracted to…think “that would be nice,” I don’t take people seriously, until they have proven to me that I can.
It is soooooo freaking annoying… posers.
If you aren’t careful, you can make all kinds of assumptions about people, and find yourself baffled by inconsistent behavior. And yes you can eff yourself with your own fantasies, stress level, and positive triggers/associations.
Even when people mean well, or are unaware, it just bugs me to the point of ‘no mercy.’
Oh YES to the frigging YES! So true.
My exEUM is an amazing speaker, very good with words and is highly respected professionally. It took me a very long time (measured in years, not days) to see that my pain was coming from the obvious gaps between his words and his actions.
When I started asking him, after his long proclamations about faithful husbands and how awful that some of our colleagues cheated in the past. And then I’d ask him “But what about us? What about you? Aren’t you cheating and I am enabling it?”. And he’d say “It’s different”. Or “A man can love two women”. Or, my all time favorite “I am confused”. “I don’t know how that’s possible either” was to follow. I used to see him as being conflicted and thought it meant he was struggling with choice (why on earth I allowed a man to choose either me or someone else and stuck while he did that is another issue of its own and I totally see my fault here now). But now I just think that he’s full of crap. These words meant nothing. If he was conflicted about anything it was how he can get away with his shitty behavior and still feel good about himself.
In those rare moments I ask him why he did this or that (about professional issues, we work together) he just gets very angry at me. Nope, those words do not work here anymore, fella! It was a good lesson to learn though. I did learn mine. He did not learn his at all.
Why! Hahaha. You go girl! You’re learning fast. I could be wrong but from my reading this blog and really good books, it seems that the worst AC’s and EUM’s seem to share the same traits. For example, they tend to be very good speakers. Look how easily and convincingly they express their agendas and have us following suit. They’re intelligent and have loads of charisma which makes them so hard to resist and to get rid of. Just thinking out loud.
Speaking of good books, there are many amongst the trash that will steer you wrong. One I found to be exceptional is “Boundaries” by Drs. Henry Cloud and John Townsend. And, of course, all of Natalie’s books.
Tink, what great timing! 🙂 I just got that book last week.
Well, get to reading. Can’t think of anything better for you right now. It WILL help. Guaranteed.
https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/are-false-negatives-causing-you-to-make-negative-associations/
https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/are-you-treating-all-conflict-and-criticism-as-bad-negative-associations-strike-again/
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Intelligence/ has been defined in many different ways such as in terms of one’s capacity for logic, abstract thought, understanding, self-awareness, communication, learning, emotional knowledge, memory, planning, creativity and problem solving. It can also be more generally described as the ability to perceive and/or retain knowledge or information and apply it to itself or other instances of knowledge or information creating referable understanding models of any size, density, or complexity, due to any conscious or subconscious imposed will or instruction to do so.
**********
Wisdom is the ability to think and act using knowledge, experience, understanding, common sense, and insight.[1] Wisdom has been regarded as one of four cardinal virtues; and as a virtue, it is a habit or disposition to perform the action with the highest degree of adequacy under any given circumstance. This implies a possession of knowledge or the seeking thereof in order to apply it to the given circumstance. This involves an understanding of people, things, events, situations, and the willingness as well as the ability to apply perception, judgement, and action in keeping with the understanding of what is the optimal course of action. It often requires control of one’s emotional reactions (the “passions”) so that the universal principle of reason prevails to determine one’s action. In short, wisdom is a disposition to find the truth coupled with an optimum judgement as to what actions should be taken in order to deliver the correct outcome.
Fantastic article Nat. For 6 months I dated a man who told me after the 6 months he wasn’t ready for a committed relationship. Like a good girl, I backed off, walked away and didn’t contact him. I was ready to move on. 2 weeks later he called me almost crying about how much he missed me etc. Then said he changed his mind and wanted to be with me after all. Like a dummy I agreed. Mistake on my part. After an additional 3 months of inconsistent behavior, lack of integrity, avoiding spending time and connecting with me, he broke up with me. He said again he wasn’t ready for a relationship but also said things about me that made it seem like I wasn’t the ideal partner in his mind. Bull! The things he said sounded so lame and like he was reaching for anything to justify his actions and dump some of his guilt on me. All of the red flags were there in the beginning, I just liked him so much and wanted it to work.
Like you said Nat, maybe he was just using me to avoid looking at his own problems only to find out it didn’t work. Maybe he was not over his ex (I think so). Maybe he is afraid of committment. Whatever the case, I walked away feeling confused, used, unloved and abandonded. Since I am self aware I know that his behavior triggered my own negative childhood experiences of abanonment. I wish he knew how much I was hurt by his immature, selfish behavior. Unlikely because he is buried too deep in his own stuff to notice how I might feel. 6 months later I am much, much better but something broke inside of me. I haven’t dated since nor am I interested in dating anyone. I hate that this experience did this to me. Despite the heartbreak I learned a vauluable lesson and it will never happen again, but what a tough way to learn it. A
Abby, I’m also feeling no longer interested to date. Its true that no real possibility has shown up but a part of me is wondering whether I’m just not ready. Too many triggers for me for childhood fears, and the market is getting thin. I like my alone time, I like my work, I like myself. I dont like domestic drama and I seem to attract it, I dont like having a sulking or frustrated or silent treatment or depressed person around the house nor do I want to be with someone when I am sulking or depressed. Sometimes when I am spending a week or two with close family or friends, all those undercurrents of tensions in their home life bring up all my PTSD feelings from childhood problems and I hate how it makes me feel just listening to someone yell at their kid or snark at their spouse and I see it all the time; I had that home life with my ex and I cannot do that again ever. So unless I meet someone no drama which could happen because I have become quite no drama myself, its just not happening.
Knowing what relationships are like and having the ability to take care of myself I’m wondering why I should bother anymore.
Ditto, Suki. It’s like you’re writing my thoughts.
Abby, your situation sounds super similar to mine, and I’m so proud of you for making it 6 months out. I can empathize so completely on feeling that a piece of you broke inside, and how easy it is to lose ourselves in the past hurt of abandonment (mine was my dad leaving my mom for her best friend and basically only existing on the outskirts of my life for many years) and pain when these kinds of reinforcing situations happen. I hope that one day we do heal from that, and I like to think that we do! It is so hard to never 100% know why he acted the way he did, or make him understand the deep pain that they make you feel, but that is just how it is, and you are doing an amazing job of bringing it back to you (you = inspiration). Time, therapy, and self-compassion have been my hard lessons in the past few months, and I think it’s all about being patient with yourself. Know that you are not any less valuable for the stuff this guy put you through, and that you will heal and one day be inspired to date someone. I am not currently dating anyone either as I am trying to be more comfortable with the idea of being vulnerable with someone again, but am trying to give myself space to be curious and have healthy expectations of others and of myself. I am sending you a big hug, and thanks for sharing your story. It feels so good to know I am not alone! -M
Thanks so much for sharing Maiwi. It is comforting to know that there is someone else going through this. I am sorry to hear about your abandonment experience. Being abandonded and neglected makes you feel worthless and invisible; like you are not even a person. These feelings can play out in relationships if you are not aware and have taken the time and energy to work on yourself. It sounds like you certainly have!
Fortunately, I have worked through the worst part of the pain but there is still some soreness and under the right conditions can be triggered. If I every date again (BIG IF) then I know to choose a man who has integrity; integrity means what you say lines up with what you do. It means I can depend on you. You will be there for me. Through this experience I too am learning to be more compassionate to myself. I am also learning to give to myself first and fully. I have also gained wisdom. Sending hugs your way 🙂
This is SPOT ON what happened to me with my ex-boyfriend. After two months of what had been a loving, committed and amazing partnership (which I thought was moving toward marriage and culminated in us moving into a house that I had purchased), he suddenly announced that he was leaving. No warning. No emotion. I went “all in” on the relationship and was authentic with my feelings and actions. He wasn’t, nor could he really even explain WHY he decided to leave. Thank you for providing some very thoughtful insight into why some people just can’t (or won’t) make their actions and intentions align. I am coming to realize that he simply isn’t capable of maintaining a relationship with anyone, and that this is a long-standing pattern that will continue unless he decides to change. So sad, but I’m moving on knowing that I did the best I could, and that I loved with honesty and integrity.
Sorry, I meant to say we were together more than TWO YEARS. Not two months.
Thank you all for your comments and support. I have not spoken to my ex EUM/AC in a week. I will remain NC. Yes, I have been SO focused on trying to understand how he could just bounce from me to this new girl in 2 months, that he seems SO crazy about…always saying how ‘happy’ he is because of her. In all the time I have known him, I have never seen him truly happy about anything. He has a track record for bouncing from girl, to girl, to girl. Most online relationships. His ex of 5 years, supposedly cheated on him and broke things off with him. Knowing how these guys can be, who knows if that really happened or not. I feel sorry for this new girl because she is also ignoring the Red Flags, like I did. He’s 31 and still living at home. Plus he is a HUGE gamer. Always playing video games. He does have a good job BUT has made no effort to get out from under his parents roof. He uses his back injury and pain as a way to get sympathy from girls. I was nothing but amazing to him. Always there for him. It was a 80/20 relationship. I gave and gave and gave while getting little back. I was one of those girls who thought, if I just kept showing him love and care…he’d ‘change’. So stupid.
I am also very mad and disappointed with myself. I hate that I fell for his crap. Bought into a fantasy. Don’t know if it just because I’m a hopeless romantic or just flat out naïve. I do know that I need to stay NC and do whatever I can to stay busy. Work on myself. I’m starting some volunteer work this week to not only help get over him BUT to help others. I trusted the wrong person and honestly believed that he cared about me and really was a friend. But now I see that I was basically a doormat for him to walk all over and wipe his muddy shoes on. I let him use me and then toss me aside like trash. He has a lot of female friends in his life. A haram. There were so many flags waving in my face and I just chose to ignore them.
I will continue to read the articles on this site and will keep taking things day by day. I will also look into some counseling, if I can afford it. It’s still VERY hard and painful. I miss who I thought he was. I miss the friendship I thought I had with him. I know deep down that I dodged a bullet with him but the pain of knowing that he is supposedly SO happy and in love with this new girl, hurts deeply. I know these guys don’t change unless they want to. Good luck to his new girlfriend.
Cinders. What you have said about the progress you’re making in letting it go sounded so encouraging until you once again spoke about his interest in the other woman. You’ve said yourself that he ha a history of bouncing from woman to woman. Were you thinking his pattern would stop after he showed an interest in you? No. He is a user and what’s more, he’s capable of unbelievable cruelty. After the way he has treated you, you should have no time to obsess about him having another woman so quickly. I know it hurts deeply, but you have to use mind control not to dwell on that. In the scheme of things it’s not important. You were not enough for him to stay and, trust me, she won’t be either. Have you actually seen them together having a great time? If not, all you have is WHAT HE SAYS. You know already that isn’t worth much. Keep working on yourself. You have the loss of him – who you never really had, but the miscarriage is a legitimate, heart-rendingly painful loss. I ask again, as dd Suki, is it totally impossible for you to get a few sessions with a therapist? And, CBT (Cognitive Behavioral Therapy) could possibly be a great benefit to you. You have a hard road ahead of you. The sooner you can stop worrying about hyim and what he is doing the better off you will be.
This article could not have come at a better time Natalie…you have basically worded the gut feeling I had that I couldn’t put my finger on. Thank you so much!
Wow, This article/replies have been such a wake-up call. I have been reading BR for over a year now and would not have survived without her advice.
I myself went through hell with AC (or possibly Narcissist).
Background: We worked together at the same company. I was living with and starting a business with my boyfriend (and under much financial stress)– he was married 30 years with 4 grown children. We met, he started lovebombing me to death. I thought I died and went to heaven. At the time I had no idea this was a bad thing. All I knew is that I felt like a million dollars – just like in the movies and he was there to take me away to a happy life. He was well known in the community as a popular journalist, handsome, smart, romantic – you name it.
The problem was he wanted to move things SO fast. Saying he loved me from afar many years before meeting me, how he found is “soul mate” and that we fit together perfectly. He never loved his wife when he married and of course she was abusive to him and his 4 kids. I felt SO sorry for this man and knew I could take him away. My own relationship was just ok, not bad, but WOW – I met THE ONE!
I should have seen the red flags…he was claiming he loved me within a month. He wanted to move things fast – get an apartment together, get married, etc. I thought I wanted that too. My situation was complicated. He left his wife and got an apartment with the idea I would follow. Well, I wasn’t able to. Something didn’t seem right. I couldn’t walk away from my new business venture and I felt guilty leaving this man who, even though we were stressed, loved me. AC was devastated and said he would wait for me forever because, again, we were soul mates and meant to be together — NOW. “Life was too short to waste another minute” he would tell me.
Well, we continued to spend time together (I know, I’m not proud of this), text just about 24/7, poetic emails (he’s a writer), talk on the phone constantly, professing our love for each other, etc. This went on for over a year.
Suddenly, he lost his job due to layoffs and was forced (for financial reasons) to move home and live in another state with his elderly parents until he found another job. I was there for him, helping him, encouraging him, planning for our future, etc.
All of a sudden I start seeing another woman commenting on his Facebook page, photos being posted of her and comments of places they went together, etc. I was devastated. I learned she was an EX girlfriend from High School who he dated for 3 years. They were “just friends” and that he wanted me more than anything. Yes, I understood that I had no rights since I was still living with someone. I would tell him I understood if he needed to move on, just to please tell me. He again answered, ” no she is only a friend and you’re the one I want” So we continued our relationship long distance.
Ok now here comes the hot and cold…I was forced to look closely at his and the ex girlfriend’s Facebook pages. There was more going on without a doubt. She told someone they were “back together”. I took a screen shot and showed him and he said “it wasn’t true, he’s not sure why she said that…” (Gaslighting me??) Other situations just like this. I thought I was going crazy. I started searching online and found out his new address was the same address as hers. He said “he was renting a room in her house”. I wanted to beleive (I know how dumb of me). So this went on another year. We saw each other from time to time when he came home to see his kids. All seemed normal. Things were posted again of him and ex gf in selfies doing fun things together. That was it. I uncovered so many lies! When I approached him on these he said I was imagining things (gaslighting again?). Then, he said he had Parkinsons Disease (lie?) and that he had to marry her for her health insurane. That was the end for me. I knew I had to go no contact when he posted a photo of them taking their vows on facebook! He knew I would see it.
You see, he was punishing me for not leaving. Why not just leave and tell me?
Thank God Natalie’s No Contact book was there for me. This alone helped me more than anything. I am almost 5 months NC and am still having a hard time but finally able to see that I dodged a bullet. I am trying to sort out why I let myself get into this mess.
I’m happy to say that I did a lot of therapy and reading online (especially BR) and am doing much better.
I apologize for such a long comment, it was therapeutic maybe this story could help someone else avoid going through what ended up taking away 4 years of my life.
Thanks everyone for your time.
Been there and done that and I use to think it was about me but it isn’t it’s about them. Oh well move on…
I just did this with someone recently we were not together even a week yet and that’s because something hit me… they’re insecure, argumentative and a control freak. Plus they said something to me that made the whole 3 days we were arguing seem like such a waste of my time… ‘I don’t care whether you call me or not!’. It made me wake up and realise that they just enjoy arguing for the sake of it and expect me to be hit my the thunderbolt of consideration instead of taking action.
The whole passive aggressive reply, the whole you called me after someone told you I was having problems instead of calling me yourself (which I should have done granted) however they still should have said something. I cannot do anything if they say nothing and this was the second time we had this issue.
So they were mad because I didn’t call, they were mad because my phone was having issues and they couldn’t get through to me (the phone was answering calls, it didn’t even ring, I didn’t even have a missed call so as far as I was concerned no one was calling), they were mad because I called when someone said they were having problems and they were mad because I’m not attentive enough to anticipate each and every problem. Where the top off came that they don’t even care anyway if I call. Makes me think what’s the point in even bothering, explaining and putting all my realisations together to understand what has happened if it doesn’t matter anyway?!
Did they sabotage? Maybe. Did I sabotage by not calling? Maybe. Did I give it up too easily? Maybe I did. However how long can one go on trying to please? Or being controlled? Or having feelings invalidated? I overlooked all of that like a fool and at my own peril for someone who I wanted something with but in hindsight didn’t actually deserve to have it. Silly, silly me.
Some background story to this…
We met through mutual family members and things were going great despite interfering family members. They disappeared, great init, and then we bumped into each other a year later. We start talking my gosh their mouth was so disrespectful. I stopped talking to them for a month because of it. Er, threatened by differences they were in all actuality. Start talking again, we sleep together… things were going okay. They hardly called but I wasn’t too fussed, we were not an item.
Spend more time together, I get my place at uni for a January start so I have to leave my home city. At Christmas we’re talking and again their mouth is disrespectful… they spend so much time talking over me during that conversation that I had to tell them eventually to ‘shut up’ and explain why I said it just to make my point. It became an argument in little to no time, I even left the phone got another glass of wine and they were still ranting. The next day I felt bruised at the conversation. A couple days later I explain how I felt, disrespected and got told I took their behavior too personally. Thought it over, maybe I was.
See them again my first week in uni as I went back home. I was feeling groggy and tired after the journey and I snapped and told them to not worry about how I’m carrying on, I’m just tired. Spend time together everything is fine. The next day laughing, joking get into a fast food joint and then they want me to have tissue (we’re not staying mind just ordered), I want to have my drink that I’ve just been given. I decline the tissue, they’re forcing me to have the tissue, I decline again harder this time tell them I want my drink. I move them out of the way because they’re blocking my path because I want to put the wrapper of the straw in the bin. I get told ‘couldn’t your drink wait?’… ‘er no… I wanted the drink and anyway couldn’t the tissue wait?’. No reply. After that they stopped talking me for the rest of the time I was back, even ignored me when we was at the bus stop. They said the next day I confronted them that I disrespected them public. So why didn’t they say something yesterday? Apparently because we wouldn’t have made it back to our cousins house, like my mum don’t live round the corner ya know.
I apologised, I repeated the incident at Christmas because to me it wasn’t resolved they were adamant that they didn’t disrespect me. Another blow. They say I like to run away, I say they don’t like to admit when they’re being disrespectful and they lack empathy. They also said that I don’t want to be treated properly… because I declined tissue, pushed them out the way and disrespected them in public. Even though I didn’t want or need something at that moment in time because they’re trying to be nice. I actually was so furious, pissed off and angry during that whole argument not only for him being adamant or making judgments on my character but they tried to insinuate that my reaction is another reason they didn’t say anything. I’m even mad thinking about it now. I was cursing to myself, pacing up and down, telling myself I need to get out before I kill someone. And what made it worse is that they couldn’t even finish what needed to be said, it was all I don’t want to talk about it now. Man… mouth for cursing me but not mouth to state your point. KMFT!!!
Went back to uni, called a few days later there were declarations of ‘I want you to be my girl yah di yah’. I agreed because I did like them. Phone got cut off and I went to sleep. It was 2:30 in the morning and I needed to be up for 7… struggled, was tired plus it’s my 2nd week of uni and I need to focus.
Then it’s on to the story above… Where when I said why they didn’t say anything they gave some bs of ‘I may have dropped my phone down the toilet’. When questioned further on how they supposedly knew that they said ‘the calls weren’t going through’. Confused dot com.
I’m not one for essays on here, I actually hate them. However it feels therapeutic to get the whole thing in writing. It is one sided, my side. However looking back on this whole thing, I don’t even get why I stayed with someone who on the whole is quite verbally abusive and a chopper. No matter how so-called good looking they are, their words, they’re ‘ugly by personality’. What the hell was I thinking?! I tend to date or form relationships with a lot of control freaks and I have no idea why… Time to do some soul searching.
I’m reading Drama Kings: the men who drive strong women crazy. I identify some of my dating life in that shizz.
@colly, it sounds like you’ve done some brilliant self-analysis in the last little bit, which is great! But it’s hard when this sort of self-reflection shows us things about ourselves that are hard to accept (and likely hard to change).
I had an epiphany the last couple days about my ex’MM. We talked again yesterday because I blindly thought, okay, maybe we CAN try being friends (for like the 100th time). So I asked him about his weekend, and what a surprise, he was cold to me! I feel like he’s always hot and chasing for attention and to be friends when I’m cold to him (like he was on Friday), but as soon as im receptive, he backs off and kinda freaks out and then I freak out and that scares him.
I think he is a bit of a narc who loves the chase, and I’m someone who has a hard time letting go. Ultimately though, it’s just too stressful for me and I keep cracking every time we try to be friends. And I think it turns him off. I have said smart things (like let’s stop talking so I can move on) but have a hard time sticking to my guns, and as a result, come off as infatuated (and maybe a little crazy).
Our conversation last night ended with him saying that he thinks we need to stop talking for a long time and then maybe we can be friends eventually. The tone was that I seem to be a bit crazy (which is true, but makes me so sad), but I guess that’s the consequences of trying to stay friends with someone you’re crazy about while they are building a life with someone else. It makes me sad I’ve come off this way, but it is what it is. And hopefully he knows I’m not a freak, just havin a hard time moving on gracefully from this.
So forward with no contact. I don’t know if we’ll wver be “friends” again or if there’s hope for any future between us (a long time from now). Like I said before, I don’t want to break up a family, so I really just have to keep my chin up and move on. Especially since now any contact I have with him feels embarrassing. Anyways, I am trying to give him the space he is asking for and which I seriously need. Maybe that will be enough to kick me out of these feelings for good.
Anyways, despite being very very sad yesterday, I feel fine today, even happy :). I am working daily on looking for a new job and I am doing some research into a masters program I might want to take. I’m making tons of plans with friends and playing the guitar lots. Also planing a bunch of trips I want to take (even if I never do, it’s still fun to plan :)). I don’t know why I feel so much better, but i think the very limited contact I’ve had with him this month has made a huge difference. These little set backs in breaking NC have thrown me for a loop, but I am recovering and trying hard to rebuild quickly.
So glad to have a “partner-in-getting-well” here still colly! Please keep letting me know how it’s going and I’ll do the sameAnd good luck this week!
Hi Leanne,
I know exactly how you’re feeling because I’m right there too. I feel awful today though, just really really upset about it all. I am so full of regret that I ever met him today. I guess there was a gift in that I have learned so much about myself that I will benefit from, but right now it’s hard to feel that, all I feel is deep pain.
I understand the embarrassment bit too. Awful.
It sounds like you’re doing great though, filling your life with things that make you happy. Do keep it up.
So I’m still having to work with him, every day at the moment, I have a call in 30 mins and its just so awful. I don’t want to leave my job because of him but I’m at the point where I’m going to have to start looking. I need to get away from him completely.
Hope all is good with you today
Colly. You are struggling. You’re at that one day “feeling strong and resilient” the next day “beating yourself up for making a mistake”. It’s part of getting over the entire mess going through the tunnel of pain and regret but coming out the other end free and reborn. Seeing him everyday is the worst of it because it’s a constant threat to your staying away from him. If you can find another job, that would be great. Don’t worry about leaving the job “because of him”. You’re worrying about your image and how it will look to him. Eff him! You have to do what is best for YOU.
Tink,
Thank you for giving me some courage and making me feel less like a crazy person.
I’m not actually worried about whether he thinks I left my job for him, I don’t want to leave my job for me. I really love my job, and I have the most wonderful people working for me. It would also be tough to find a job living where I am, and I’d have to relocate my family. So, if I can stay I will, but its got that bad that I don’t want to be here.
I don’t seem him everyday – we are 3000 miles apart – but his email is in my inbox everyday, he texts me and IMs me about work everyday (still), and if I ever send anything that sounds sharp he’s calling me telling me he loves me. God I need to grow a back bone and just not pick up.
I do have to visit the office he’s at for a week in one months time, but we spoke about that and he says he can’t bear the pain of seeing me either so has arranged to go somewhere else for the week. Phew. What a mess though.
I need to get back to my work on me…that was much more productive than talking to that idiot.
Colly. I wish I could talk to you in person. You have just got to be much firmer. Don’t you know what stay away, avoid means? Don’t you WANT TO BE RID OF HIM? If not, Colly, you are wasting your time and all of ours who are invested in help you out of this quicksand you are sinking into instead of grabbing the lifeline we are all offering. You are acting like you do see him every day which is why I forgot that he’s 3000 miles away. This is just ridiculous and it is up to YOU to put a STOP to it.
He knows you are still very vulnerable. Why do you think he is constantly texting or calling you. It’s not because he’s in love with you. It’s because he wants to keep you as his sweet, stupid fallback girl. Why wouldn’t he not want that. It’s easier to keep Miss Pushover than to go find someone new. He probably has someone out there where he lives also.I know these are strong words, but I will not say any more. You are engaged in a battle, a war of wills. Do you want to lose and go on with your tail between your legs or do you want to be the victor, and be proud of yourself for overcoming a very messy situation. It’s your choice. YOU can be the one in control. YOU can take the power away from him, but only if you are committed to doing just that.
Colly, I hope I’m wrong but I have doubts he will really be away when you go over there in a month. I’m sure that thought must have crossed your mind Colly. You need to be careful if you really are committed now to putting an end to this. Be prepared to firmly reject his advances in person. Plan your time so that you will never be alone with him and don’t tell him where you’ll be staying. Do all of this if you, in your deepest heart, are serious about getting rid of him.
I mean what does your knowledge of him tell you when he says he won’t be there? Has he lied in the past in order to blind side you and take you by surprise? Examine what you are really hoping for when you travel there next month.
p.s., I’m curious about what happened with the NPD diagnosis dram that occurred not long ago. Did that end up being a tool he used to suck you back in to speaking and feeling sorry for him?
It’s amazing how quickly your eyes can be opened after reading several articles on BR. I have always been a ‘people pleaser’ with friends. Just like I was with the EUM/AC. I use to be the one to reach out to him when I didn’t hear from him. I stopped doing that weeks ago because when I wanted his support during the lump scare I had, he actually got annoyed with me and told me that “he couldn’t do anything for me” and when I told him that if he was in the situation, I’d be there for him. Because that’s what friends do. They support each other. He went on to tell me that “you were lucky to get as much attention as you did…not many people do. I like to keep to myself a lot. It’s how I am unfortunately.” And then last week he messaged me after not speaking for over a week and asked me if I was alright. I told him No but I was working on it. He asked what was wrong and when I told him it was too serious of a conversation for texting, he made up excuses and told me he was too busy that week to talk. But he hopes I get it all sorted. I told him he sounded very cold and uncaring and he replied “No, you just take everything personally. It’s late, I can’t talk now and yes, I’ve been busy recently. It’s not cold, just honest. If you can’t appreciate that then sorry but I’m not going to be anything else.”
I constantly made excuses for his actions and would always try and blow off how he was to me after our holiday together. But no more. I have been reading and reading on here and my eyes are finally open. What a complete bastard.
Thank you everyone for your stories and comments. And thank you, Natalie for all that you do!
Cinders. How can you allow him to speak to you in such a demeaning way? Do you think you deserve such abuse? PLEASE. Go NC. That means you don’t have any convos with him. Stop opening the door for him to kick you in the butt. And, don’t think for a minute he cares what is wrong with you. He knows damn well what’s wrong with you and he enjoys seeing you fall apart over him. He has shown you what he thinks of you, and probably what he thinks of women. STOP letting him hurt you.
Cinders, agree with Tinkerbell. Also, i think a lot of relationships where something awful has happened sputter and die off like this in smaller and smaller spirals of pain. Till one or both of you cuts it off totally.
He is talking to you so that you can be as clingy and needy as you are being, and then he is fully able to tell himself how clingy and needy you are and is justified in his treatment. You’re helping him in this. What is there left to say? If you want to tell him he’s the loser he is – do it once. That statement has no need for a conversation, it requires a singular phone call and email. The reason you all are still talking is you are hoping for validation; you are hoping he will affirm that he likes you or that he is an a–hole so that you can forgive yourself. You need to forgive yourself on your own. Not through him.
Its also possible that you are hoping that somehow he will come around. This is totally natural – it takes us time to move on from people. But you can move on in your own time, without any contact with him.
I think the absolute depths of bad behavior is one person telling someone they have romantically rejected and treated badly, how wonderful someone ELSE makes them feel. This is what we teach children about manners and empathy and other people’s feelings so that we are not a feral race. This man’s behavior is beyond the pale. I hope you see that soon.
What you did didn’t hurt him, it only hurt you. What he is doing, hurts you a lot. So while you were both involved in the relationship, you played different parts. He is not a good person. Rather than cutting contact, he is keeping it going till he has shown you in about a 1000 ways that he is rejecting you. He gets off on rejecting people, on spinning stories, watching you fall for them, and then walking away.
We are telling you that this man is beneath your interest. The more you keep engaging, the longer it will take for you to heal. Whats worse is that you are engaging in a way that keeps a semblance of friendship, so you are now his fall back girl.
@Tinkerbell and @Suki:
I agree with you both. Every word you said. That is why I have been NC for over a week with him. I do not want him back. I do not want to be his Fallback Girl. I refuse to let him treat me like dog crap any longer. His actions show me that he couldn’t care less how I am or how his actions have affected me. He’s never truly apologized. He’s never been capable of that. A very cold, selfish person.
He is the kind of guy (won’t call him a man because real men don’t treat women, friends, gf’s, etc like this) that LOVES to come off as so much smarter than other people. Thinks he’s always right. Always tries to have the last word. But not anymore. I’m done. I know he doesn’t truly care about me. Don’t know if he ever did. I like to think at some point he did but oh well. Not going to analyze him anymore.
I’m focusing on myself now. Redirecting all of the energy I spent on him, on ME now. Keeping busy. Working on forgiving myself for what I allowed to go on. I gave up my power to him. No more.
Good! You sound like a strong person Cinders, and you’re doing well considering all the real health stuff you’ve been through. So its something to ask how you got involved with such a weak and dangerous-for-mental-health idiot. I think men that are weak look for strong women, its something that draws them, and there is strong envy there too. After all, in the ‘natural’ way of life, you’re supposed to be a wilting thing and he’s all macho. So watch out for anyone that isn’t capable of being strong all on their own.
In fact, him telling you how great someone else is, is also about him showing you how desirable he is etc. ‘look mommy, all the women want me’. Ugh. He is desperate for validation from YOU. In the most cruel ways. I hope you take some time to just forgive yourself and to KNOW that you can handle anything that comes your way (read ‘feel the fear and do it anyway’).
Cinders. PLEASE stay strong. No more convos. There is nothing to talk about BELIEVE THAT and act accordingly for your own sake.
Suki. How I wish I had the eloquence you possess. It’s truly a gift. You’re a real gem on this blog. It shocks me to see your post about YOUR problems. You have problems, too? But, then of course we all do. And, we’re usually better equipped to give sound advice to someone else than we can solve our own troubles. Thanks for being here.
Thanks Tinkerbell! That means a lot. You’re right, we often can’t see our own situation objectively. I had at least two friends tell me ‘he’s not your friend, he never was your friend, and no, you cannot even have coffee with him’ before I realized these things. I couldn’t by myself. Oh well! Stay strong!
Tinkerbell,
You can give the same sound advice you give to others to yourself.
One tool is to use psychological distance.
One example of this idea is when you take one of your problems, and pretend it is a good friend’s problem instead, and then decide what you would tell your good friend to do, and then act accordingly. You can google it, and read the research studies, intricate details, etc for yourself…there are many sites that go into detail about how to develop this skill in a multitude of ways and areas, etc.
ekaC. Thank you so much! I admit I never do that and, yet I’ve advised someone else here on BR once or twice to do that. You are absolutely right. I should think about what I would tell someone else in the SAME SITUATION and then do that.
Reminds me of this article
(and ignore the macabre heading!)
Why: your words were spot on
” When I started asking him, after his long proclamations about faithful husbands and how awful that some of our colleagues cheated in the past. And then I’d ask him “But what about us? What about you? Aren’t you cheating and I am enabling it?”. And he’d say “It’s different”.”
Brilliant!!!!! I’ve been there too and beard the same line.
I just bet it was different with the other other woman too! Who he ditched me for. Oh and his wife, of course.
But there were other women you had sex with right? Yes, hed say, but all just one night stands- never what “we” had. He’d reassure me: “I’m usually very well behaved. It’s just that my wife is so loyal I’ll never leave her. But we are more like friends. No passion or excitement”.
Maybe he was embarking on an emotional affair with me for only the second time ever. Maybe he really did care for me those months.
But if that’s true I still spend days not understanding why he ditched me to have another other woman (previous affair) come stay with him on a work trip. Funny how – like others have said, this respected man everyone at work adored-,suddenly didn’t have a credible explanation apart from “we were only casual. I’m being honest telling you my former affair is coming to see me. I loved her- she needs me she’s having a difficult time with her new boyfriend”.
How I wept! (Never in front of him although I should have). I’ve never felt smaller.
I have had 100 explanations. Maybe others here might feel the same- I start, tearful and furious: “he didn’t love me but loved her/ I’m not good enough/ what did she have I didnt/ I HATE her” (so I still slept with him hoping to change his mind. Wanting to feel attractive and desirable) why did my colleagues tell me she was so nice when they met her? How many lies were there?
And just as I feel my pride my heart and my (low) self esteem will never ever recover I say: ” hello BR and Nat and you all. Thank you, yes it was a lucky escape/ he showed his true colours and AC behaviour/ he was MARRIED… so it’s good its over. I get my self esteem from me”.
How have we ALL been in the same boat? Why was I so confused and how comes I was so unable to see through the fog?
Why do we STILL try to have relationships when they make us all so miserable?
I understand more from this site. But also a lot less… about life and human beings in general.
????
@diane- excellent post in response to Suki. Thank you.
I am on day 1 of NC AGAIN. I am disappointed though because I successfully got rid of my EUM for two whole months before that. I just disappeared and he had no idea why. Well, I’m sure he had some idea because I figured out he cheated after the girl left behind some faint stains on some sheets and towels, and he didn’t have the sense to change them or throw them away. I even guessed who it was and called her at her real estate office posing as his friend looking for an apartment just to confirm my suspicions were right. I asked her how the weekend in the hamptons was with our “mutual friend”, and she said it was great and relaxing. I then told her I was his girlfriend and she hung up. Anyway, I made him think I forgave him and all was OK and then just stopped answering the phone all of a sudden. No warning or discussion. He couldn’t believe it! He tried texting and calling me for two months but i ignored him. The only reason I gave in and answered his text was because his best friend died suddenly on New Year’s Eve. I should have never answered him and kept my power, but it was a difficult situation to ignore someone when their best friend in the world died. I am so disappointed in myself for giving him another chance after that though. I just felt bad about his friend dying and let my guard down and couldn’t believe he would use his friend’s death as a way back in with me, but he did. He gave me all sorts of future faking about marrying me and buying us a house and apologizing for treating me badly and that he would NEVER do it again, which I believed like an idiot. And then, the disrespectful behavior and cheating signs started showing up again about three weeks later. We had our last big fight on Friday and then he was the one to drive away from ME and stopped answering ME. So infuriating! I only called once and texted a few times saying I don’t want want someone who treats me this way, but I am DONE. NO more texts, calls or emails! He is blocked on facebook too. He was so disrespectful to me and manipulative. I now see he used future faking as a way to escape the pain of his friend dying, and it made him feel good to say those things and have me be there for him with no intention of actual changing or following through on any of it. Reality set back in, and he is back to being the same unappreciative cheating EUM he always was. No contact is the best contact guys like this. Cut ties and move on!
Thanks for your blogs and books Natalie. I’ve been reading Mr Unavailable and the fallback girl and its the first thing I’ve read that has started to make me feel any better at all.
I’ve just had my first experience (and I hope last) with a mr unavailable. I’ve never come across one before. As seems to happen to everyone we met and hit it off really well. He was the most intelligent, funny guy I’ve ever gone out with and he seemed to really have his life together. I knew he had had a pretty difficult childhood but seemed to have dealt with that – well so I thought!
After we’d been together for a while he came upon the realisation that he had commitment issues. He started counselling to deal with his issues. He didn’t discuss all the details of it with me but it was pretty obvious that it wasn’t an easy thing to be going through. A holiday period gave him the perfect opportunity to stop and never go back. So yes I went from girlfriend to friend with benefits to just friends (and yes I use the term friend loosely because of course we were never really friends) then after a couple of years of ‘friendship’ graduated to someone with who there was no spark and he’s on a dating website looking for someone else. Not telling me that of course I just found out. Of course in the time we were friends he would tell me if he started dating again he only wanted to date me, he could still see himself settling down with me, would comment on how sexy he found me – all those things designed to keep me hanging in there to stoke his ego. Finding him on the dating sight searching for someone else hurt more than I’ve ever been hurt before. I just couldn’t believe he was saying those things after all the declarations that I was exactly what he wanted.
He doesn’t know that I know he was on a dating website, we didn’t have any kind of formal, ‘this is over conversation’, when I found out I just stopped contacting him and haven’t heard from him since, about a month now – which shows how much he valued my friendship – a month and he hasn’t bothered to contact me either.
I’ve been beating myself up with what could I have done differently and why wasn’t I good enough for him. This book is the first thing that has made me realise that it wasn’t me, it was him. Ok I admit I have to take responsibility for trying to remain friends, I should have walked away when he didn’t go back to counselling.
Your blogs and books make perfect sense but I still feel so heartsick, its so hard not to contact him. I still love him and really miss his company. I really do feel like he was my last chance at a relationship. Now I’ve got no faith in my abilities to spot bullshit, I don’t know if I’ll ever trust myself to give someone a chance ever again.
Stillsosad, you were in denial. You listened to him too much. You abandoned your judgement in favor of his.
“which shows how much he valued my friendship” – maybe. But what is more likely, it shows you that he is a coward and a user. You are absolutely right that you need to acknowledge your part in this (when he downgraded you to “a friend” and you allowed for it) but you are not the one who made him a coward. He was (and most likely, will be) like this before you. It’s not that something in you triggered him to act this way with you. It’s not that if only you were more desirable, knew how to perform more tricks or had other men chasing you then he’d stop being the person that HE IS and magically become the person you IMAGINE him to be.
I am now at a point where I find this “slow fade” with a sprinkle of “we’re friends now” totally disgusting? I am worried as I am not sure whether it’s a sign that I am finally on a low BS diet as Nat suggests or that I am just annoyed. But I can’t stand this behavior. Last time I spoke (haha “spoke” does not really describe the kind of communication with EU people) to an exEUM he told me he was in the “process of breaking up” with his gf. When I asked him what it mean and whether they were still having sex, he said “We barely do”. Wth is barely? How do you define it? By quality? By quantity?
Anyway, he is pulling exactly the same thing you talk about, Stillsosad – not communicating openly with his partner (who, as he used to profess, he was so intimate with and they had such a trusting and respectful relationship that me, being an OW, would never understand), dodging responsibility, silently downgrading her to a status of a fwb. Eek. So so so unattractive. And he cannot stop presenting this and himself as something noble. As if his slow disappearance is BEING CONSIDERATE and GENTLE with another person. And not a cowardly user move that it is.
Anyway, I wanted to bring this back to US. We need to do a lot of work on ourselves. My issue was that I was not equipped to measure and define a healthy relationship. NML was the first resource to clearly define what’s good and what’s unacceptable AND the first one whose explanations and advice finally made SENSE to my experiences.
I have a text file where I copy some of the things I find inspirational and helpful. Many of them are from this website. I am sorry that I don’t add user names but here’s some sanity check from a wise lady: “Healthy relationship strengthen and deepen. The hot and cold ones just deteriorate into hardly anything at all.”
@Why; you’re on a no B.S. diet which makes you annoyed at others! Its a totally natural correlation.
What small petty petty men. And how we have enabled them.
With the exEUM i was totally on a no B.S. diet, I knew he was B.S.ing me and still it was hard to get away from him, to say no, still it was hard to realize the depths of how much he strategized it, or how easy it is for him to strategize. I think he throws a broad net, total opportunism, and sees who bites and then he plays along for as long as he can. I realized that a lot of time something happened between us it was because i was vulnerable and or he was (vulnerable through work pressures etc, serious stuff that I had told him about).
And for what? Like a few sexual encounters? spaced out over months and with plenty of drama, and bad feelings and complicated conversations in the middle? how pathetic. Either have a real one night stand with no repercussions, for fun, or have a proper relationship.
These men like drama, they want consequences for which they can refuse responsibility, they want you to tell them what you think of them so that they are justified in walking way. You’re crazy! You’re suspicious! etc. Ugh. Today’s stories are just making me mad. These people are not worth our time.
Exactly Suki, these stories are making me mad too, and these people are not worth our time.
I can’t imagine a group of AC, EUM’S, all sharing stuff, and being there for each other in a online way.
Can’t envisage them doing anything for anyone but themselves…shame on them ….
Why. You are doing very well. Yes, you’re on the low bullsh*t diet. You know how you know? Because you are asking yourself the right questions. When you answer them truthfully you cannot help but wake up, and, in the process, grow stronger with a greater sense of your worth and self confidence. Good work. Keep going. Tink.
Thank you, Tinkerbell, for your kind words. I really appreciate them.
You’re very welcome. There’s more I’ve said to you further up.
This post really triggered me.
I understand it. I understand humans make mistakes, but as I try to sort out what feelings are leftovers from childhood, I’d still enjoy making a double crust, deep dish, blueberry pie, and just smooshing it all over his face. Now that’s a nice fantasy…of course I would never do it…eh, hmmmmmm….
I am still holding a grudge, and I haven’t decided to let go of it yet. I know I have to forgive him, and a list of other people, so I can move on with my journey.
It’s not like they are calling me, and conversing with one another, “Hey, did ekaC forgive us yet?” Nobody really gives a flying fig,but me.
Forgiveness is hard for me because as I dig deeper, I keep discovering layers of mistreatment, manipulation, and …of course I’m going to get angry sometimes, and I have to let it go again and again until the this particular work is done, and I’ve healed.
I don’t suspect I’ll ever be trigger-free from childhood trauma, but who knows, it could happen. I would rather just hit a nerve than be activated all the time. I’m tired of being thrown back into yesteryear.
Hi ekaC. Don’t beat up yourself. I am of the belief that your don’t have to forgive the person who did you wrong. Just work on forgiving yourself first. You will find that self forgiveness is the hardest kind of forgiveness to give.
Hugs to you.
A
Hi Abby,
Yes, I made a decision to forgive myself. I try my best to stay committed to that decision every day, but there again, as I dig deeper, I have to keep letting myself know I forgive myself. …hard somtimes, yes….
Hugs back to you.
My Creator forgives me, as I forgive myself, as I forgive others….
I understand. I almost missed it, but I understand. I felt it when I read ” You will find that self-forgiveness is the hardest to give,” but I was going to back away, but now I won’t.
Thank you.
Forgiving doesn’t mean forgetting.
You can forgive but you remember.
You forgive and love the person. Even if they hurt you.
The main thing is that keep building your life. The pain will resurface on and off. But keep on going. The main thing is not to hold on to the anger and grudges. It’s ok to still miss them. As long as you keep building your life while forgiving them all the way without necessarily wishing them the best (if that helps on the journey:))
Sofia,
Yes, that helps.
I’m going to stay committed to my decision.
Thank you for sharing.
I believe forgiving others before forgiving yourself comes first.
But everyone has to try for oneself.
I don’t really know if forgiveness is for everyone. I know it has not worked for me. With some of my family members or people who hurt me in the past. My goal is total INDIFFERENCE. I still remember what they did. This does not let them or me push the reset button. I just don’t feel angry towards them (this group does not include the EUM yet. I hope hope hope to get there someday and feel absolutely nothing). I feel disgusted by them.
If you ever saw some absolutely disgusting piece of black mold, you wouldn’t want to stay with it and put your fingers in it so you can stay angry, right? You just want to get away from it as soon as possible (and try not to inhale it as it can be very damaging to one’s health). This is how I feel towards those people right now – have not forgotten what they’ve done. But no longer hurt by those memories. Just repulsed by the people they are and the things they did. And mentally I move on from the thoughts of them in maybe 2-3 seconds. I just don’t want to waste my time inhaling those deadly spores. I hope it makes some sense and not too creepy a description 😉
Hehehehe, I’m a very sensitive, imaginative person who will probably dream of mold monsters tonight.
I understand what you have written. I have reached indifference in other relationships.
*thinking*
LOL…me too…
Why,
I believe forgiveness comes from realizing that you are full of flaws as the person next to you. I was hurt by my ex, but if I go back 7-10 years ago, I hurt my ex-husband. I don’t mean it’s a karma/payback situation. We hurt and other people hurt us. I don’t have any explanation for anything anymore. For my past all I can say is that forgive. For the future: watch out and guard your boundaries. Love comes with action. Action is the key.
Eka,
Please don’t waste a nice pie in that way! How about you make one for yourself and share it with a good friend instead. Better that than wasting another thought on him!
Forgiveness is absolutely not necessary for healing of any kind. The idea can actually be counter-productive.
Agree with everyone. Forgiveness is overrated. It’s just not essential to forgive someone who has, whether it’s intentional or not, tried to destroy you. This, coming from someone who is supposedly a devout Christian. One of the strongest tenets is Forgiveness, something I continue to work on. I just feel that it should be on a case by case basis which is wrong. Oh well……..
I believe that you have to forgive yourself before you can even begin to forgive the other person. In a situation where someone important in your life has seriously hurt or wronged you, you have to acknowledge and examine your role in what has happened. Once you understand that it is not one-sided, that it’s not all their fault, and that it two to tango a broader understanding enables you to forgive the other person. I have a cousin who had trampled all over the kindness and generosity I’d shown her. Initially, I was outraged was wishing her all sorts of bad luck. With the passing of time, my anger receded. My sister kept reminding me that my cousin is diagnosed with bipolarity or some kind of personality disorder, has been institutionalized several times, evicted for non-payment of rent, and occupied in shelters several times. Actually, it is very sad, especially when she is brilliant and could have accomplished so much in he life. I realized, after my anger had worn off to a degree, that it was not making sense, and was hurting me more than it hurt her to remain so furious over how she had treated me. This is not a “normal” person that you would expect to behave rationally. Also, my frequent attendance at church played a role in being able to forgive her. Hearing week after week about how HE forgave us and died for our sins and we are expected to forgive our enemies enabled me to forgive. But, still, for me the “love your enemies” part is out. I told her to her face that I forgive her. It lifted a burden off my heart, but that doesn’t mean we will be friends. I’m no longer wishing her bad luck as I’ve risen above that. But, I remain indifferent and will be not seeking her company in the future.
Crystal,
Healing without forgiveness? I don’t know if I agree with that idea. Counterproductive you say?
Hmmmm, I’m not suggestible, but I’m not narrow-minded.
I want to forgive them. I believe it will help me get all of the ugly, angry feelings out of my heart. And, I think it will help me move on and find peace.
More importantly, forgiveness is a part of my Faith; I forgive, as my Creator forgives me, as I forgive myself, as I forgive others….
anon:
Forgiving others and yourself is what you are saying.
We are all flawed. No one is perfect.
I made mistakes. He/she did. We all do.
it is not easy.
Forgive.
Right on.
I’ve stumbled across a few of your articles while I’ve been thinking things through myself, and I can see the core good to what you’re saying. My relationships haven’t been too bad but when I’ve felt extremely vulnerable due to other things in my life it’s been easy for me to fall into despair because of a few habits I wanted to change – much of the stuff you’ve said yourself in articles, I’m a little too ‘nice’ (give others the benefit of the doubt where perhaps I’d be better off just not doing so), and doing the above as well – trying to ‘make nice’ with people so I don’t have to face the unpleasant circumstances of rejecting someone.
Just as one small point, though, in a lot of your articles you are quite scathing about certain members of the opposite sex. I can’t quite remember the terms you use – ass-clowns, is it? I just wanted to share the thought that no one is all good or all bad and presumably you and the other ladies here liked quite a lot about these men before it turned out you weren’t suitable for each other. I’m not saying no one has ever treated me unfairly or disrespectfully – they certainly have and unfortunately if I’m in a bad place I often agree with their criticism so much that I beat myself into the ground – but that hasn’t led me to feel any anger at them or at anybody. It has led me to make the executive decision not to have them, or people like them, in my life, but I don’t feel anything negative towards such people. The truth is, that if someone is chopping and changing, behaving unpredictably, being overly critical, or in other ways engaging in the kinds of behaviour you have detailed in their articles, they’ve probably come from a background that wasn’t so great, they’re almost definitely overcompensating for a fragile ego, and they’re reacting out of emotion rather than in a balanced way.
I think it’s worth recognising that everybody struggles and even when the struggles that others have lead them to act hurtfully, claiming to be a victim of the evil villain won’t help you or anyone. Who would want to be a victim anyway? Instead, maybe just be aware that people who behave that way are generally not happy people, they are generally not well-balanced people, and they are generally under the sway of emotions they can’t face. Perhaps just it would be easier to forgive them their misdeeds and hope they overcome the struggles they are facing, just as you hope you will overcome yours (while walking away).
This isn’t criticism, just a thought. I’ve just always found it helpful to see everybody as a person full of grey areas, including myself, and that over-emphasising either the good or bad in a person does no one any favours.
There is nothing wrong with being a victim. Would you suggest the victim of a robbery, mugging, or rape spend her time considering the background of the criminal and ‘forgive’ him, too? Criminals and assclowns alike are nearly always repeat offenders, who use forgiveness to take further advantage of others.
People who behave badly, using others, cheating, lying, being abusive, etc. should certainly be called out on their terrible behaviour.
anon- I understand your argument, and obviously people are a combination of many things.
But if you have been wronged, violated , like many people have been on this site, then expressing anger is surely validated.
Just forgiving is not enough. First you have to express and roar about what was done to you, either in a therapists office, your own bedroom or to a friend that will listen.
It’s a process basically, and we all get there at different times. But women should be allowed to be angry and be allowed to rage, when they have been hurt, regardless of whether the boyfriend, lover etc was from a deprived background, was beaten as a child, was left by his dad…
Burying stuff, acting balanced, curtails the healing …
That is what recovery is, feeling what you were denied …
I apologize for the double postings. Some weird glitch.
I agree about feeling anger, rage, and not forgiving them at first. One has to go through all of these feelings in order to forgive.
Forgiving is a process like healing. Not a magical switch. Takes time.
Anon, Natalie doesn’t advocate being stuck in victim-hood as far as I understand he core ideas. Victim-Hood becomes a barrier to change and leads to a position of being stuck in a dysfunctional position/mind set of blaming. Blame is not conducive to moving on, letting go, self examination and honest conversations with ourselves. At base what many of us struggle with here is a failure to treat ourselves with respect, care, trust and love. Many do not know what those things look and feel like, let alone the self care and and self respecting behaviour that is needed.
Unfortunately, statements such as ‘”I’m a ‘fifty shade of grey’ type person” are so often used by the self absorbed as an excuse to treat others with selfish disregard. It really depends whether someone is willing to address their behaviour, recognise the damage they have done/do and truly try to address their issues. By definition, it seems an AC (Ass Clown)is not inclined to recognise that they are a male/female pr*ck. In the event that they do and then follow up with appropriate *actions* they are moving out of AC territory. However, as is shown by comments and Nat’s articles, AC’s are on their own patterns of mindless rinse and repeat. The lesson is – recognise these folk and bail.
p.s. to not feel anger when someone mistreats you or denies mistreating you or says ‘sorry’ but continues to mistreat you is not healthy in my view (going on my own experience). And feeling anger and still having empathy for how the selfish AC ended up as he/she has are not necessarily mutually exclusive anyway.
anon:
Forgiving others and yourself is what you are saying.
We are all flawed. No one is perfect.
I made mistakes. He/she did. We all do.
it is not easy.
Forgive.
Right on.
Anon, sometimes anger is the correct emotion to feel. Some people are sociopaths, had a proper upbringing, but just have NO feelings of empathy toward other people, they WILL intentionally mislead and always take and never give.
All sociopaths don’t end up as extreme-wrongdoers, such as serial killers. Some of them are content with killing the spirit of those in their wake.
I think I knew one of these low-spectrum sociopaths. But I was complicit in that I set the bar so low as to what I interpreted as his being “giving”. Because I wanted a relationship with him to work. To this day I am not sure why, because I did not really like his character. He was just the “type” that I thought I should be with, I’ve never had a white-collar boyfriend, and he was white-collar, understood corporate America and the struggles minorities have on that path. But I did not really like him.
I do agree that all those who disappoint others in the romantic spectrum cannot be called ACs. Some people don’t know how to deal with unreciprocated affection, they WON’T see that the one they want does not want them and they hurt themselves by fantasizing a relationship. And if the one they want is even remotely nice to them, they are off to the races with the fantasy, then wrongly screaming AC when it inevitably hits the wall.
anon@ you’re right, people tend to be full of grey areas. I don’t think people are saying we are angels v devils.
But I think in many of these situations, the people (and yes, it does tend to be men but not exclusively so) were very clearly inconsiderate in their BEHAVIOUR.
I liked the MM I started up with: he was funny and interesting. But ultimately sleeping with me was an ego-stroke and he was inconsiderate because he ditched me for another Other Woman. The fact he didn’t care would apply to anyone. But the fact he was cheating multiple times on his wife is NOT something thats grey. Its inconsiderate to his wife.
Ironically the SAME WEEK, a female friend did almost the same thing to me: ditched my birthday party – which had been her idea – the day before to stay home with a last minute guest, who she knows I don’t like, but then lied about it totally, until I confronted her. She couldn’t even give me two hours of her time. She lives 10 minutes away. The guest was staying all weekend).
Needless to say it was a bad week.
I find it ALL depressing. It makes me lose faith in human kind to read so many sad stories here, and wonder why any of us even bother. Stats like 60% or 85% of married people cheat only make it worse. The friends who have let me down – or done similar u-turns – is also sad. I need to expect far far less.
@Anon, I dont think anyone is either totally good or bad. Many of these ACs are great friends to others (though I wonder if they really are or people just dont see it) but they definitely are all bad as romantic partners – to us anyway. To the ones they pick as fall backs.
I’ve had romantic partners that messed up a couple of times in a big way but were otherwise really great, I’ve had romantic partners that were immature and so was I so we clashed and no one was AC just bad timing, silliness, conflict, whatever, and I’ve had a lovely bf (only one of those!) that were all around decent.
And THEN I’ve had EU, passive aggressive, just mean petty spiteful hurtful people that hook you and hurt you and seem to take pleasure in thwarting you and your desires and in never doing anything nice for you ever. That make you feel like decent rules of normal social interaction are no longer in effect. That make you feel like you are losing your mind. Why they started a relationship if they couldn’t bring themselves to do a single nice thing that wasn’t fully negotiated and done at least partly through spite is beyond me. [I dont count recent EUM here, he’s small fish compared to the real ex-EU].
And if you look at your close friends, they’re not perfect either. Its just that on balance they are decent to you, they care, they listen, they want to make you happy, and they are there for you consistently for years. Right now all my really good friends I have known for 10+ years. So whenever one of them acts out or I act out, we forgive. So they are definitely grey, they have their weaknesses and I love them anyway. Those weaknesses are not meant to beat me down, its them having a bad day. And we work at these relationships because it takes time and effort.
So I think that on the whole people are good. I’m amazed at the women on BR> we take so much time to write to each other. My male friends are really nice. I have great male colleagues. I like the men in my family. There is however a subset of men (and women, but the women are not my romantic partners) out there that have learnt that treating women badly is okay. And we have enabled that. And those men are ACs, 100% bad news. They dont come from bad environments any more than I do. They dont need my sympathy or any more ‘gray areas’ explanations.
ANd its important to recognize that – as long as you ‘gray area’ it, you also ‘but he’s my friend, but he’s hurting, but he cared, but we had this connection’. You let them off the hook.
ICBIFT. Yes, expect less. Jeez, it’s almost like waiting to be disappointed. But, this is life today at least. Perhaps back in the day people were more honest and real. It does seem like it was that way in my life experience, but you cannot give up. There’s always hope. Without hope for a better day a better time we have nothing. That’s what our ancestors believed, all races, creeds and colors. They must have because we’re here. They paved the way for us to follow. In their footsteps or not.
What your friend did really sucks. She is not your friend.
@colly, sorry to hear you are having rough days and yes, I think it must be very difficult that you are working with him. I too, don’t really want to leave my job, but it is so hard to be there now.
I was feeling good this morning but now feel really crappy. I see him in the halls at work now and he ignores me. I should have just left things well enough along the other week but instead I broke it down further and further and now I feel so terrible. Sorry to vent here, just having a rough night.
@Leanne, it comes in waves doesn’t it. Safer to vent here though than break NC.
Well, guess what? I experienced someone doing a very unexpected U-turn on me last night. I was laying in bed reading a magazine. It was 12 midnight and I was tired but unable to go to sleep right away. I had seen my therapist that day and talked a lot about how I wanted so much a companion to go out on dates with and how horny I was. I stressed the horniness. Lo and behold, I got a text (at 12:05am) which was anonymous as I did not recognize the number. After a little game playing on his part I guessed who the person was – a guy I met online 3 YEARS AGO. We had one date which was just “okay”. After our dinner and his flirting, and pressuring I invited him back to my place. This was during the time that I had no self-esteem and had just quit the MM. Anyway, he declined saying he had to go home, an hour’s drive away. This guy had a pregnant gf, now the father of the child, but the kicker is he is not only younger, but HALF my age! The attraction back then on both our parts was purely sexual curiosity. He called me again a few days later and we agreed he would come over. That morning he called feigning illness. Yeah, right! What an EUM. We never spoke again until last night when he texted, begging to see me. Now, after all the work I have done on myself, surely this was a TEST OF MY STRENGTH and resolve to love, care, respect and trust myself. I refused. But, another kicker is that even though I know he is as EUM as they come I had difficulty ending his pursuit. I told him that I knew damn well nothing had changed with him (suddenly texting me at 12mn after 3 years of no communication) and that I was not the same as I was back then. Well, after 30 minutes or so of my saying “No”, he gave up, telling me that he had 10 days vacation from his job, and if I change my mind to let him know.
I should have felt insulted and angry. But I was thinking moreso about why I couldn’t seem to put an end to the texting pronto. Why did it take 30 minutes? I was enjoying his wanting to see me even though I know he is FOS (full if Sh*T). And, it was so ironic that he probably, although I don’t know for certain, could satisfy my horny urge to be ravished just when I had been complaining about it to my therapist.
Ladies. We all, at least all of us on BR, have got to keep our heads on straight. We can never relax and feel we are out of danger, or over the hill, or we’ve got it so together that we can never be tempted. You just never know who is waiting in the wings to pounce on you when its highly unexpected and you’re totally unprepared. I’m not happy with the fact that I did not dispose of him immediately, but I’m happy that I did not succumb to his charming ways. I’m really ripe for the picking but my self esteem and morals won out.
BTW, my therapist is a woman. I would not have been able to be so candid with a man, which is why I personally prefer a woman.
This fool thought Miss Tink was a late-night booty call? Oh. Hell. No.
Good to see you’re still fighting the fine fight, Tink. Cheers to you and the rest of BR (Nat primarily–hello love!:-*)
I don’t know if I’m progressing or what, just seem to be very very tired of all the conflicting thoughts in my head. Just had a lovely short holiday, spent maybe 5% of my time thinking about the jerk at work which is huge progress compared to couple of months ago. Felt strong and carefree and happy this morning and then bumped into the jerk in the office. He came around asking how was the holiday and I gave him the coldest “Fine, do you have any urgent issues that need to be dealt with?” reply which seemed to offend him and he backed off. And now, several hours later, I feel so bad for doing that.
It’s just that I cannot be around this person and he keeps pushing for contact. We have a lot of mutual colleagues and I try to be as normal, funny self with those people and the jerk tags along. I’m not entertaining him the least bit but others I enjoy working with. Sometimes NC seems like something five-year-olds do when they don’t want to play with someone. I don’t want to be a bad person and I don’t intentionally want to hurt other people. Then I start thinking that maybe the jerk wasn’t such an inconsiderate person, we all make mistakes, right? He treated me badly but then again, maybe he was temporarily AC, was out of a long-term relationship and wanted to have fun with me, I allowed it to happen so I should take part of the blame, in fact, I pretended to be more easygoing than I really was and yada yada. On and on I go and suddenly all of my day is wasted on something I should have let go ages ago.
Sorry for the rant but having one of these days is making me question if I’m completely bonkers with NC. Wishing I could just move on and not give a damn about that guy…
Evvie, in case you are still reading this post; all you are doing is deciding not to socially interact with someone. Thats it. It is not a crime to decide that some people are not your friends. In fact 5 year olds are smarter – they dont get caught up in these debates.
It doesnt matter – you have the right to ignore someone EVEN IF part of the blame is yours. So what. Ignore away.
If someone is bad for your mental health you are allowed to ignore them. You’re not yelling or begging or stalking or abusing or setting fire to his desk. You are merely refusing to engage in banal conversation. Please carry on.
I have decided to cut EU out of my life. I dont share any blame for what happened between us – that was all him. I have to fully be responsible for what happened to ME because I knew the score. And yet I am totally in my rights to ignore him.
Thanks Suki. I kind of know that I’m onto something as the past few months I’ve gotten so much better emotionally. I no longer think of the jerk all the time and am enjoying life more. I’d like to think that thanks to BR and all soul-searching, the change in my thinking is also starting to show on the outside. I recently took on a couple of hobbies I’ve been meaning to try for ages. I also suddenly have a lot more plans for the upcoming months, meeting friends, travelling etc. Looking back at last year, it seemed like I spent so much time in a blur, being stuck, feeling bad and not knowing what to do.
I also tell myself that as long as I do my job well and can handle any business with the jerk in a professional manner (which I think I’ve done so far), no one has any right to complain. Of course, some seem to wonder why we are no longer on such friendly terms, but I’ve only said I’m more busy these days and those who know me better, I’ve told that I don’t have time to listen to his excessive complaining.
My problem now is that it’s still tricky to balance between ‘politely distant’ and ‘rude’. On some level, the guy has understood the point and is not constantly trying to chat with me. Sometimes though, he still tries to get friendly, I end up offending him and then I feel bad. It is tiring to constantly watch out for these situations. I’m also worried that at some point I’ll be too rude and then get told about my bad attitude.
Evvie, what has he done? You’re not telling the whole story unless you’re not looking for anyone’s opinion/help. That’s okay, too, but just to make BR your sounding board is cheating yourself. You could reap so much more as we all have. And, you’re not ranting. Okay?
Evvie- I know exactly how you feel. I know that had the MM I knew not been this elite well respected colleague, but a stranger I’d slept with for 5 mths who’d disappeared, it would be so much easier.
I think it’s because perhaps you- like me- want to remain professional and composed in the workplace. He has since left, but I find myself feeling physically sick if I see an email from the other Other Woman (who I still go in circles trying to figure out WHY he re-started sleeping with her/ asked her to visit him, literally when I was in Bev with him. Then lied). I want to cry, literally, it’s like a reminder popping up. He complained about her to me as if he had no choice and she was after him. I don’t buy it.
I also think I must not be like a 5-year old and must be civil. When people mention his name (ESP women) and how great he was, I say nothing. I think the workplace shouldn’t be an emotional place.
But many would not do so. I have female colleagues who have sat and cried in front of the whole office over sleazy co-workers, one had people here rally round comforting her, helping her even though shed keep having these sick needy drunk liaisons- unprotected. She then would be at her desk shouting and swearing about them for days, weeks, months…
But I keep it all in. But it’s not easy. And I spend hours justifying to myself why I’m civilised to him- as if my instinct is not to be, but I am cos of work, but the two ie the feeling and the action- just can’t be reconciled. Others have posted here about needing to be angry- but it’s like I have to suppress this in the workplace. It’s why it took so long to move on: he was still there. It was too tough doing NC.
I hate him and I WANT to scream swear and tell my colleagues he was the scariest, filthiest, most msnipulative, unstable, emotionally selfish egotistical and also insecure man I’ve ever met.
I dont.
Ps
I’ve been NC for about 6 weeks now. Did 6 weeks before but broke when he messaged at 00.30hrs on 1 Jan to wish me a happy new year. (I’m sure he also messaged other other woman. He’d have been w his wife…) and I replied 1 week later.
I pray he won’t message me for at least a while while I get stronger.
Evvie- sorry this really us my last point:
I have thought(for me) it might be due to my being a ‘people pleaser’ that I want to keep my funny friendly easy-going facade esp at work. I just got NML’s email about the course, hence this thought sprung to mind….
Thanks for the kind words, your support means a lot to me. I think I’ve told my story a couple times earlier in smaller bits. To recap it, I had FWB with guy at work which turned out to be a disaster. I wasn’t even that interested and said no many times, but finally gave in because I thought ‘what the hell’ and it was flattering and I had nothing else going on. I understand now that what I really did was being emotionally unavailable, looking for rejection, missing proper boundaries and having barely any self-esteem.
The FWB was all on his terms as I pretended to not care and be cool with everything. He chased openly other women on the side and I just sat there being a good friend, thinking how wonderfully undetached and superior I was to not being bothered about it. And somehow still to this day, other women were not the biggest hurt but the realization that he never intended to be a decent, good friend to me. My few requests and wishes were mostly met with avoidance, silence or rejection, and I wasn’t asking for eternal love, just for him to return some of the favours I did to him.
When I stood up for getting my needs met, I got booted. He avoided me for some time, I’m guessing he found a more serious relationship candidate, and when that ended, he came back, no longer asking for sex (thank God for that) but still begging for attention. This hot/cold cycle repeated many times until last autumn I was demoted to being someone he only talked to when he wanted to complain about his crappy job situation. Later I heard he had met a girl through mutual friends and things apparently got serious, so that explains why I started to get the ‘even more cold’ treatment.
So that’s the background. I never told the jerk I was hurt, just one day had finally enough of the bad treatment and started to avoid him as much as I could given the awkward work situation. This mess was not about him, more about me and how many issues I seem to have that I have either tried to forget or outright deny. NC has helped tremendously but like yesterday, I have moments when I am seriously doubting if this approach is helping me or hurting me (and others) more. Sometimes it would seem better to go back to how it was, let the guard down, be friendly and accept whatever crumbs he throws at me. This surely would be easier for others. Then I suddenly remember – like writing this text – what a jerk he’s been and I tell myself that I deserve to be treated much better.
Evvie, I’ve been in your shoes with a single passive-aggressive man. Just because it is a FWB relationship does not give him license to hurt your feelings. The passive aggressive types like to play “chicken” with the feelings of those in the harem. They act interested in you as a person, then when you think you have a real friend, they go cold and treat you like you are no more special than a stranger. They lean on you for emotional support but will not give any stroking in return.
The only thing you can do is stop caring about him. Demote him to stranger category, because that is all he is. Do not ask about his life. Do not call him. The last call I initiated with my FWB guy was to tell him I did not want to have sex with him anymore. He just said OK. I said thanks, OK, goodbye. That was the whole conversation, and that was 4 years ago.
I have never initiated another phone call, but he has called/texted/emailed me for various small reasons. Never to go out or for sex, but to let me know where his band is playing or ask for computer help, or tell me about some party he already went to, or as with yours, to complain about something in his life. I get out of conversations as quickly as possible, telling him I have to go, I have a meeting, I was on my way out, I was just staring my meditation period. Anything to end the conversation.
He continues to be passive/aggressive and likes to drip feed me info on anything I may really be interested in. And I’ve noticed at the affairs I attend where he is present, he watches me like an eagle….looking to see if I am engaging any other men, I suppose. But once I stopped having sex with him, his actions stopped hurting me. They became, at worst, annoying
Evvie. Thanks for filling me in I missed your story because for many months I had no way of being active on BR because my laptop had died. So now I’ve gotten a new one and have been even more act than ever before. Evvie, you say that you and he were supposed to be “friends”. BUT, you were trying to be so cool and together which is what you wanted to convey to him, but actually you were in love with him. That’s a different animal and that’s why you were so hurt by his behavior. You say that when he came back to you he was not asking for sex. Frankly, it seems that he was never interested in a love affair with you. He may have been unaware of how you really felt, or worse, if he was aware he was not looking for the same thing. I think we as women take a huge risk participating in a FWB relationship because we just tend to want more, unless you are an EUW which it doesn’t sound like you are. I agree with you when you say it’s more about you than him. You were not honest with yourself about your true feelings for him. You must not deny and try to ignore your issues because they will come out, usually in an ugly way. The two of you were supposed o be friends, but now he’s a “jerk” because he was not treating you like a girlfriend because in his mind you never were his girlfriend. I don’t think you can, nor should you tey to “go back to how it was, let the guard down, be friendly and accept whatever crumbs he throws at me”. Absolutely not. Be true to YOU. Be real, Evvie, if he really were just a friend would you care would he was with? Would you be talking about his throwing crumbs? No. What has caused the discord between you is the sex. The FWB situation. Men can handle it because they’re mad that way. But a woman? Not so much.
Evvie. Excuse the typos. Now that you told me your story I hope to be of some help to you. As a part of my being “reborn”, learning who I am and accepting myself as I am and striving to be better, I’ve also learned to accept bitter truths. I’ve been for many, many years one who tends to lean toward fantasy rather than reality. But life is not a bed of roses and we don’t always get what we want. I hope you will end the “friendship”, a fallacy and continue your life in the real.
Sorry for the delay in replying. I have been pondering your words. Love sounds like too strong of a word here, at most I was excited and not about the guy but about the idea of having someone (anyone) to have closer connection to. I think this keeps me attached and hurt, as I see the guy has moved on and he’s a constant reminder of ‘my failure’ to attract a man. Wrong thoughts that I should work on, I know.
I don’t call him a jerk because he didn’t want me as his girlfriend. He’s a jerk because he treated me badly as a friend. FWB still has ‘friends’ in it, so to me, there still should be a level of respect and consideration for each other’s needs. Friendship should not be one-sided mission where one takes and the other gives. I’m not talking about expecting feelings to develop but simple stuff normal friends do for one another like asking how they are doing and paying attention to what the other one says.
I’ve been NC for several months now, haven’t asked the guy anything outside of work matters and tend to avoid him as much as possible. My issue was that I felt I was too rude to him, was tired of constant avoidance and I think ‘overdoing’ of NC kept me dwelling in the situation even more. I don’t know what happened in the week or so, maybe some locks in my brain opened, feelings flowed and my head cleared, allowing me to be more indifferent towards the whole mess than before. I feel much better now. It still hurts at times to see the guy glued to his cell phone, texting to his girlfriend, but now I can examine my thoughts more objectively and understand better why am I feeling that way.
I know I can’t take one more step towards you
‘Cause all that’s waiting is regret
Don’t you know I’m not your ghost anymore
You lost the love I loved the most
I learned to live, half alive
And now you want me one more time
[Chorus]
Who do you think you are?
Runnin’ ’round leaving scars
Collecting your jar of hearts
And tearing love apart
You’re gonna catch a cold
From the ice inside your soul
So don’t come back for me
Who do you think you are?
I hear you’re asking all around
If I am anywhere to be found
But I have grown too strong
To ever fall back in your arms
I’ve learned to live, half alive
And now you want me one more time
[Chorus]
It took so long just to feel alright
Remember how to put back the light in my eyes
I wish I had missed the first time that we kissed
‘Cause you broke all your promises
And now you’re back
You don’t get to get me back
Who do you think you are?
Runnin’ ’round leaving scars
Collecting your jar of hearts
And tearing love apart
You’re gonna catch a cold
From the ice inside your soul
Don’t come back for me
Don’t come back at all
Who do you think you are?
Runnin’ ’round leaving scars
Collecting your jar of hearts
Tearing love apart
You’re gonna catch a cold
From the ice inside your soul
Don’t come back for me
Don’t come back at all
Who do you think you are?
Who do you think you are?
Who do you think you are?
Spanish Jackie. I love the poem. Thank for the post.
Can these posts (like this one on U turns) apply to male friends as well? I have one that does all this behaviour but it is really complex. I think he did like me (well he admitted that) but he is married and works with me. But first day I met him he was very forward and telling me how pretty I was and his marriage issues…he asked for a hug. He then asked me to lunch to a nice place where he made reservations and paid. Then coffees and he brought me a present of organic teas while on vacation with his wife in Hawaii. Anyways he was texting me like crazy saying things like given we both like icing and not cake, we were soulmates and all this other stuff. Our work caught onto his corporate BB and right then he basically exited my life and made every excuse not to see me and now we just basically pass each other in the hall and barely say hello so it is sad for me. I did ask him once what happened as he always told me how close we were as friends and he said he just has gotten busy…typical excuse. It was not even like his interest had a waning period in me as a person…once he got caught texting he just avoided me. And it is not like our work told him to avoid me…they just told him to stop using his work BB for personal purposes.
He always proclaimed we were close close friends and I never felt harrassed by him but I was always a secret to his wife (she works with us too in same building) and he always told me to be discreet. There were many odd lies too. It is like he was being someone who he knew I would validate and like. And on my end, I saw him as a father figure as he is 13 years older (he did not want to be a father to me he said though but I guess I just saw him as older and wiser and as he is a Director, I looked up to him.) I even asked him to adopt me as a daughter…LOL! I have a dad but he is EU so that is my part in this. So can Nat;s posts apply to non sexual relation ships/friendships? I felt so used and discarded so quick with no real explanation. The dept that spoke to me too about his texts (to make sure I did not feel in danger or harrassed) told me we did not need to stop associating at all but just the work BB was not for his personal usage. That was all.
So I just feel sad I was discarded so fast by what was supposedly someone who claimed to be so close to me. It seems he was mostly words though and not much action as he told me all these things, as friends, he wanted to do, yet nothing materialized. And when I mentioned them to him, he told me that was one reason he hated texting…..his fingers typed things he did not mean. Yeah it was all weird and sometimes I feel it was too weird so I am better off without him as a friend.
Amanda, you were being sexually harassed. But it is up to you how you want to perceive things. He is in authority over you, and could possibly control your future at the workplace. Just because there’s been no physical contact does not eliminate the fact that this is sexual harassment. However, the world is grey, and sometimes you need to be shrewd – his interest could work in your favor.
He sounds like a pig…an entitled pig. His fingers typed things he did not mean…..really? Sounds like the tried and true excuse he tells his wife.
My advice is – be cordial when you have to be in contact because of work. Other than that, keep things at arms length. He sounds dangerous.
Today is a rough day for me. I am going on 2 weeks NC with my EUM/AC and I am feeling good about that. It’s just that I still have so much anger and hurt over everything that has happened. I know that’s normal and that I shouldn’t expect it to be gone by now. I kind of relate to something Evvie said above. Even though I know I am doing what needs to be done, I still feel like a ‘bad’ person for just cutting contact. Pretty stupid huh? Even though I know that it NEEDS to happen, I still feel sad that this is how things are now between he and I. I hate feeling duped. Believing that he honestly cared about me and that we were friends. I am also so angry about everything. Not crazy angry, like I’m going to fly over there and kick his arse (even though I sometimes wish I could lol), but just angry that he has treated me this way. Like I’m nothing to him. Disposable. And I would be lying to myself and all of you if I said that it doesn’t still hurt that he is pursuing a relationship with this other girl. Even though I know it shouldn’t be a concern to me. Sigh. Anyway, just had to vent a little. I’m still sticking with NC and trying to better myself. Thank you all for your support! xx
Cinders. Just stay NC. You will have rough days and then you will have better days. It’s all normal. As long as you stay away from him you will heal. Come here and vent. You have our support. NC really works. You’ll see.
This site is great, I’ve read so many articles (and all the comments) the past few days to try and make sense of things. Sorry the following is somewhat of a rant instead of very targeted to this article.
I think I just got hit with U-turn too. I think. I’m not sure. Could be a future faker or overlapper too. Or just someone who wanted any relationship when he couldn’t get who he wanted right then. Or just emotionally unavailable. Or combination of above.
I had been seeing this seemingly great guy for about 4 months (~1 month of chatting online, ~3 months dating), and everything seemed to be going awesome. We were a little sad that could only meet once a week or so because of his work schedule, but, at least to me, it was ok since nothing we could do about it.
He was very considerate, and everything I asked for he wanted to give me (even implicitly, like I mentioned that I like furniture to be a bit taller, since my hip joints bother me, and he asked if he should lengthen the bed legs and get a new chair for me). He was also considerate to everyone around, and all the people in his circle of social media had only good things to say about him.
He had started talking about future plans that included me (well, modifying his plans so that I was included), and eventually asked if I’d like to move in with him. I didn’t at that point, I said it was too soon. Could think about it in a year or so.
Things were still seeming great, but a few weeks later he did a complete U-turn out of the blue. He said that our relationship couldn’t work because of “circumstances”. He was all apologizing and saying it’s all him, not me, he really likes me very much, and he’s sorry that he hurt me. It’s just better if he’s not in a romantic relationship with anyone and so on. And could we still be friends?
It was so ambiguous break-up (done via fb message too, so couldn’t gauge body language or voice), that being my naive self I believed that it really was about circumstances, and he really wanted to be with me but just couldn’t (DUMB!). So remained friends. I didn’t beg for him back. I didn’t even bring it up. I had told him that if he really feels there’s no way to make things work, then there’s no point for me to try and make him change his mind, since it requires two to tango. And that was final for me.
Around 2-3 weeks later he mentioned that he’s in a serious relationship now. Serious relationship in 2-3 weeks?! I’m a little ashamed of myself in hindsight that I lost my cool and asked him in nasty tone that does he really change his mind about fundamental things within days/weeks or did he flat out lie to me and overlap me with that other woman?
I might be very trusting, but I wasn’t born yesterday that I’d believe off the bat that you just happened to be friends with this woman for 9 years with no romantic interest and she just happened to move from 150 miles away to neighborhood and you just happened to realize you’re perfect for each other, right after you broke up with me!
Well obviously he denied it. And said that he’s looking into the future instead of past, I should too, and we met online and the relationship is over.
Plus that he had told me off the bat that he wouldn’t start a serious relationship with a woman already in a relationship. Bzz, wrong! He had said that he’s only interested of serious relationships, and he wouldn’t start _any_ relationship with someone already in a relationship, and I had told him even before the first time we met IRL that I’m still going through divorce paperwork because my ex won’t sign the damn paper and it’s been 6+ years! So gave the choice originally to this guy that does it count for being in a relationship in his mind and would he rather be just friends till the paperwork is finished. Obviously he chose that be more than friends.
If you want to address the fact that I was dating someone while still married, feel free. I don’t consider a marriage on paper binding anymore when the “husband” can throw me out of our home with two suitcases and a plane ticket, when I had been taking care of the house for 5 years, for no reason at all, and then refuse to sign the divorce papers. Well I guess “I’m tired of supporting you financially, we’re through (but I’ll gladly reap the tax and apartment benefits for being married on paper still)” is a reason. Should’ve sued his ass while I still lived in the same country, but I was too stunned. But enough of sidetrack, back to original topic.
As a cherry on top, he told me he can sue me for libel because of what I said. It’d be very unpleasant experience for both of us, but he knows his rights and will stand by them (this was private message conversation, so he got no grounds, but come on, that’s a “legal” way of threatening someone). I think that was to make me pick up the phone, since I rejected his first call… at that point I got a little scared that could this guy actually do something I consider crazy, towards my family for example (lets just say special branch military background, and he reminded me of his offer to “solve” my divorce issue by using threats of violence against my (ex-)husband, dunno why I let that one slide as joke originally)… so I did pick up the phone and let him talk while staying quiet. Let him get his ego boost.
Thankfully he accepted my message the next morning that I feel threatened and it’d be better if we never talk to each other again. After that I defriended him on facebook and removed him from other messengers.
As a final mind-fuck he sent a list of my “faults” (like that I’m overlapping on him while still being invested in previous relationship, and that I hadn’t been honest at all about my character), and a postscript that please take care of yourself, and I hope you’ll find your other half and live happily ever after.
Mainly I’m glad that this breakup happened so soon, if it was only a matter of time when he’d turn on me. And I definitely do not want him back after that kind of treatment! Even if he turned nice again, I’d be forever second-guessing and walking on eggshells to not invoke his wrath. No thanks, I deserve much better.
So I’ve gotten through the first stage that don’t want him back. 😉 I don’t even want to be friends. Since I don’t want to tiptoe around my friends either. I’m in the stage of trying to figure out why he did what he did right now. And kinda getting waves of feeling physically nauseous when some thought crosses my mind. But I guess that’ll pass. It’s only been a few days since he told me he has another woman.
But since this is the second try at relationship going south since I started trying dating half a year ago, I’m slightly second-guessing myself that don’t I know how to play this game of dating since I’m brand new to it (my (ex-)husband was my first love and then I didn’t even think about dating for 6 years).
I do try to make it a point to never repeat a mistake. I made the mistake of thinking there were promises with the first try when none were actually given, and thinking that wanting to have sex with someone = liking them a lot. So I didn’t think it this time, but instead waited for the actual promises. And withheld sex till then. But… it didn’t work.
Now I’m very confused that how could I not repeat this mistake. Since I’m not even sure what happened there… Future faker on purpose? Was I fallback girl till his “friend” moved closer? Or did he really believe in us, but panicked at end? With my habit of wanting to believe the best of people I’d like to believe one of his original reasons that he went against his principles to date me because he liked me so much but couldn’t take it anymore, and had to break up… but that would be dumb, wouldn’t it?
Also a habit of mine, to try and look objectively to what I could’ve done wrong. In the first dating try I think I moved a bit too fast. I also tried too much when he turned cold (and then turned hot when I stopped bothering of course). I probably talked too much, and especially about my feelings, with my habit of analyzing everything from every angle.
So I think I addressed 2 out of 3 issues for this new relationship. I probably still talk too much, because that’s how I am. But beyond that, I’m stumped. This is really troublesome because I know I have severe cognitive issues (e.g. memory loss and speech impairment, I use wrong words and don’t realize it) at times, so I might be missing something. Maybe I said something that made him think I’m not over my (ex-)husband? It sucks that we can’t see into each others’ heads, doesn’t it?
But again, it takes two to tango. If he really wanted the relationship to work, he could’ve brought up what did I mean (I asked him a lot to clarify some points that bothered me), instead of just breaking it up like that.
Thanks for listening everyone! Just writing is therapeutic. 🙂
I came to this page through another blog (where I was researching about being an HSP = Highly Sensitive Person and the problems that can come with it and being in an unhappy love situation) and am glad about it because reading that I am not the only one having the problems I have feels sooo good (sorry that sounds bad because it sounds like I am glad you Ladies have problems, but I felt so alone)
Anyways, would be interested in your opinions about my situation, it sounds a lot like the ones you are going through. (apologies in advance if it is a bit of a long story)
I have been very (physically) sick the last few years, starting with being diagnosed with cervical cancer (fortunately in an early stage)in 2010, which required two surgeries, followed by a serious uterus infection (needed to stay at the hospital doing intensive Antibiotics therapy for a week), followed by my daughters open-heart surgery (a hole had been found when she was 4, surgery was when she was 5 1/2, she is now 8), followed by developing a medium case of depression, followed by a curettage (caused by another infection), followed by a surgery to get my appendix out (where they found traces of endometriosis) and that “torture” temporarily ended after my huge abdominal/plastic surgery in September 2013, where they corrected a hernia I had developed after my two pregnancies, removed my uterus and some excess skin on my belly.
I have been with my husband for almost 14 years, married for almost 9 years, two kids (8 and almost 6) and he has stayed with me through everything that happened the last years (it all started Oct. 2010). Unfortunately, due to his childhood, his mothers behavior towards him and other circumstances he is a someone who is pretty “cold” emotionally, meaning he won’t hug or comfort me when I cry, doesn’t like cuddling, he is easily annoyed by openly showing emotions and makes himself unavailable by leaving the situation or arguing (to the point of yelling and insulting) with me when he feels accused of not being emotional enough. Up to the point when I became sick it wasn’t that big of a problem for me, I knew he is not a “hugger” and not into discussing our emotions towards each other, I accepted it as one of his flaws. It changed when I started being depressed and needed emotional support more than anything. I was left alone with it and had to overcome it myself as also my parents didn’t help and we also lived pretty far away from them back then (still not over it, still take anti-depressants and in therapy). We drifted apart more and more and I felt more and more alone. About a year ago I told him if his behavior does not change I will separate from him and might even divorce him. I wasn’t sure about my emotions anymore and stayed with him purely because due to my depression I was unable to be on my own and to care for our children.
To make it even more complicated I was talking with my therapist about my past, childhood, family, etc… to find out reasons for my struggles and there is this guy in my past, he is/was the love of my life, we were together when I was 20 and he was the last guy before I met my husband. We met, fell in love and he said he wanted to marry me almost right away and the feelings were mutual. But like it is sometimes in life things didn’t work out because I had already decided to go abroad for a year before we met (we actually only had 3 1/2 months left, before I would leave Germany to live in the USA) and we were really young so we didn’t “survive” being separated and I broke up with him after 9 months. After I came back home we had an on/off thing going on, I had realized that I in fact DID want to be with him when I came back but he was too heartbroken to forgive me. I was fighting to get him back and he couldn’t let go of me either. But we always just made it to the point where one of us had to forgive and admit feelings and we were both too hurt, so we ended up only sleeping with each other but seeing other people too. I suffered and it hurt so bad and every time I called and he was unavailable I went out to party and sleep with others. Which is probably the reason why I was infected with the HPV Virus that caused the cervical cancer. So my situation now is in part due to his behavior back then, but I never told him. After almost two years of fighting I gave up one day and told him either we get back together or he should just leave and never come back because it hurts so bad. Well, he left and never came back and soon after I heard he was regularly dating a girl he had been on/off with at the same time he was with me. He ended up marrying her and they have a son the same age as my daughter. His wife left the father of her older son (he was 6 back then) two weeks before their wedding for him (even though he cheated on her multiple times with me).
When I came to the point of telling that story to my therapist I realized I had to close that chapter of my life somehow to be able to move on. After seeing him the last time that one day I said “stay or leave forever” we had met only once briefly for a coffee (8 years later), his son was 3 1/2, my daughter was 3 and my son just born. Back then we realized there are still “sparks flying” so we decided to leave it like that and stopped contact again after that one 2-hour “date”.
So last year in September I texted him (still had his mobile number in my phone and my fav picture of him in my wallet), saying I am in therapy and overcoming my past and all the struggles. Told him about my health, the depression, my cancer and my daughters surgery, my marriage and everything. He was shocked, apologized for his behavior, said he will be there for me to support me and would do anything to help me be happy again. He was helping me build up my self-esteem again, told me I was awesome for fighting and winning against my depression, that I am strong and still gorgeous. That he thinks about the past and me often and wondered how I was doing. That he had been thinking about asking how I was doing every once in a while when he came across my number in his phone and so on. We occasionally texted at the beginning but soon (like within 10 days) we regularly talked, day and night, except on weekends because he works away from home during the week and weekends are “family-time”. The more we texted the more obvious it became that his marriage is unhappy (hence his decision to work away from home so he doesn’t have to be with his wife during the week), just like mine and we realized we have a lot of feelings for each other still. We started talking on the phone when my husband was on business trips, usually 2-3 hours, once even 6 hours from 9 pm till 3 am, even though we both had to get up around 6 am. It went on for 3 months and we had decided we wanted to meet to see where this was going. We both had the feeling we wanted to be together but didn’t know how. He said he was scared because he would lose his son (his wife would take him away from him) and it was so complicated, it would hurt so many people around us, he grew up with divorced parents, his wife’s older son grew up without his father, etc… His words were “I want to do it, I just don’t know how, maybe we should wait until the kids are older, I don’t want my son to grow up like me ”
As I am not working right now (mom and housewife) I said I would come see him (I am from Germany – we live about 3 hours apart, he lives in Berlin just like my sister so I decided to meet during the day and stay at her place overnight). I told my husband about it, telling him I had been in contact and that I felt I needed to see him because of my feelings. My husband was furious and didn’t want me to go but I did anyways.
We met in the morning, he skipped work (said he was sick), we sat at Starbucks half the day, it felt like “coming home”, I felt so safe in his arms, we cuddled, we kissed and a lot more happened (not proud of it tbh, never thought of myself as someone who cheats). In the evening, right before we had planned to have dinner he looked at me and said he wants to leave, he can’t stay with me, it is too confusing. He said the longer he stays with me, the less he wants to go back to his wife but he can’t do that. it is just not right. It is breaking his heart that he has to hurt one of us (that being ME right then) but us being together would hurt even more people.
He stopped contact right then, kept reading my messages but wouldn’t reply, he didn’t pick up the phone either. When I told him I had had an honest conversation with my parents about my feelings and my marriage and that my husband had temporarily moved out after a huge fight (other reason, not him, though you could say my feelings for him played into it) he said I was stupid, I shouldn’t have thrown away my family, there is nothing between us and he won’t discuss it with me.
He kept reading my messages for another month until I eventually stopped sending messages. One day (one of the bad days) I was so furious I send him a message telling him that he should feel lucky I am such a nice person and haven’t forwarded our chats to his wife (she is on FB unlike him). He answered right away telling me I shouldn’t dare think about it and how mean that would be, I should just accept that he can’t return my feelings (after once saying “I want to be with you and make you happy and I miss you terribly every day”). It has been going on for a month now, he sends texts out of the blue, just a short hello or that he is doing good and asks how I am doing, that he was just thinking about me and fantasizes about having sex with me. He just picked up were we stopped before our meeting, like nothing happened, like there didn’t pass three months and there weren’t several messages that he read in which I begged him for an explanation why he changed his mind from “wanting to be together” to “playing dead and disappearing”.
I guess he probably realized when we met that he actually has to stick with the promises he made “in real life” because I was 100% committed to trying it. I would have dared to leave my life to be with him, no matter how hard the struggles would have been. I felt so much better when we talked, he helped me so much, he was there for me, he paid attention to me, my feelings, my wishes and my desires when no one else did, not my husband, not my family…he helped me love my life again, there was something worth living for again…my goal was being able to be with him and he (apparently) wanted the same thing.
Any ideas what kind of guy he is or ideas what the hell might have happened? His behavior is killing me, every time I decided to stop contact he out of the blue starts contact again. I have told him multiple times I am not just going to pick up where we left off, I demand an explanation for what he did.
I’m in my 3rd week of my ex having done an abrupt U-turn on me. No explanations given, claimed he was “confused”, denied it was a break-up yet told me he couldn’t see me in his future, and the sucker punch was when he said he didn’t love me. We had been together for eight months and he had not only brought me to meet his family, he had also taken me on a lovely vacation afterwards. I refused to be tossed about whilst he remained “confused” and said that if he couldn’t see me in his future, and worse, doesn’t love me, then that IS a breakup!
When we met for the last time for me to get my stuff back from him, (he had carelessly tossed everything inside a box as if he was in a mad rush to get rid of all reminders of me in his house), we had a talk that was more silence than talk. He claimed things went “too fast” and “out of control” and he didn’t get to process his feelings until it was “too late”. The thing is, I had never once pressurised him – he was the one who initiated every stage in our relationship, and I told him so. (I refused to be blamed and be used as an excuse that way.) Anyway, because I wanted to be gracious, I wished him well, thanked him for the good memories, and apologised for any hurt I might have caused him. I never got to find out WHY he decided to ditch me so abruptly but if there’s no love, if one person decides to bail out instead of communicate and work on the relationship, then there’s really no deal. He had been atrocious when it came to communication, and after the initial months of romance and feelings of love and being on a high, he had pretty much pulled away and things had been allowed to slide downwards with him not seemingly wanting to make any effort at all, always claiming things were “alright” / ok when asked.
I got angry after putting my 1st box down, and headed back to get my 2nd box from him. I quietly and firmly told him that he had made me feel like an absolute fool, and asked if he had treated me like a plaything to which he denied, turned red, then scratched his neck and adjusted his collar. I told him I did not deserve to be treated like this, and that his behaviour was unbelievable.
He sent me a long email to apologise for being bad at communicating in person, but that he treasured me and I shall always be a part of his life and he wanted to be friends. Initially, I felt sad and thought maybe it was something I’ve done wrong, maybe I had not treated him well enough because I had been stressed, etc etc. However, I always reminded myself that he could have sat down and been honest with me and we could have communicated and worked things out but he chose to bail out.
I have been tossed and turned in the waves of emotions since. I am mostly ok and functional in the daytime, but at night and on weekends, I am a crying mess. He was the only guy I liked after casually dating (and quickly writing off) about 10 men from a dating website over the last 9-10 years, so he was very special to me. He seemed to show signs of love for me in the beginning, but he was unable to sustain it for whatever reason. I had to take care of myself and although he wanted to be friends, I could not condone how he had treated me and after a week of agony, I finally Unfriended him on FB so I didn’t have to live with the reminders. Sadly, a mere two weeks after the breakup, he had already returned to the dating websites!
So here I am, three weeks on, still picking up the pieces, still crying at the oddest and most inconvenient times sometimes (mostly on public transport, how embarrassing!), and still feeling really heartbroken and hurt. I remain clueless as to what triggered the breakup but I no longer care. I have been NC all this while because I am still angry and if I have nothing nice to say, I’d rather not say it at all because I’m not a drama-mama.
I cannot believe it’s all over because I had thought he was the one. I did see differences, shortcomings, etc. but I was willing to be patient, to work things through, and not throw in the towel so quickly. I stop myself whenever I find myself wishing he would call me and want me back. I stop myself from daydreaming that he would date other women only to find that I was a real treasure and he was silly to have let me go and he would then come seeking me out again, wanting another chance. I stop myself from any fanciful ideas or hopes of reconciliation because I saw how he had issues with communication and intimacy and he appeared a bit emotionally stunted due to past hurts maybe, and I did suspect he hadn’t been completely honest. He did say that he liked me a lot and wanted to make things work but I think he hadn’t dealt with his own inner demons and without doing so, he will only plod along in life with other women who have their own inner demons compatible with his, or he will just continually get into and out of relationships. This is a cycle / pattern that he needs to break but not without first acknowledging that he has issues, but his issues are no longer mine to worry about, and I am moving on.
It is so hurtful to be dumped this way, but life goes on. Thank you for your articles, and thank you sisters for sharing so freely because I benefitted tremendously, trying to make sense out of nonsense, by reading the articles here and by reading your comments.
I’m so sorry for your hurt, Divine. He was a serial user, I’m afraid. Your own Michael Buble, you know, that psuedo-singer who got rich off of remaking classic tunes. Mr. Buble recently stated that he knows he was a jerk and played with women’s hearts.
When your AC started cooling off, you were already hooked on him and could not see he was near the end of his run with you.
These a$$es. They play high-school games when they are grown men.
I think you are feeling everything properly – I am SO GLAD you did not say OK to the “let’s be friends” because that was all about him being sure you did not think he was a jerk and not about really wanting to be your friend. If you say yes to that, then later, when anger gets your goat and you tell him off, he can claim to be the victim because you said you were friends and you aren’t treating him as a friend. It’s a ploy.
The only thing that will heal you is time away from that jerk. But be assured, he was NEVER the man you thought you fell in love with. He did not stop loving you, he was never invested. You did not lose a great guy, he was a jerk in sheep’s clothing. And don’t feel like you were foolish for not seeing this. He was intentionally misleading you. He showed his true colors when his cooling off began. That was the red flag that you kind of ignored, tried to fix, but that is because you did not want the dream to die.
Thanks for your response, Elgie!
I still find myself crying and suffering really bad heartbreak four weeks post-breakup. It doesn’t help that I really really liked him, and that he was the only guy I liked after staying single for about 9-10 years because I didn’t meet any guys I liked.
It also didn’t help that a few weeks before the breakup, I was under tremendous stress and I was perhaps a bit insensitive. I was also by then pretty frustrated with how he appeared to be witholding his feelings and drawing further and further away from me. He certainly didn’t seem to be as ardent as before. But I chose to stand by him, thinking that it could be work stress that’s affecting him because he had just had an increase in responsibilities at work. I did turn a bit passive-angry at how he had stopped communicating and didn’t seem to put much of an effort into it.
Due to those circumstances, I sometimes still blame myself for the break up. It’s really a battle that goes on in my brain day in and day out – I try to convince myself that a man who truly loves you will not dump me and leave the relationship so fast without first trying to mend it. The other part of me rebukes myself for subjecting him to bad behaviour and attitude.
It is really hard to move on and accept a breakup that is so sudden. It is also very hard to discipline yourself to stick to NC. I do realise that my self-confidence and self-esteem seem to have improved because whenever I gravitate towards initiating contact with him because I miss him so much and the thought of never having him in my life again hurts too much, I remind myself that I can never condone the way he dumped me, and it shall never be ok to me to have been treated that way. There’s this little voice inside that insists that I truly deserve to be treated better. And as for the friendship thing, because I still have a little indignance at how he treated me, I can never fully accept him as a friend ever.
I suppose I shall just have to grit my teeth and bear the pain. Eventually, I shall forget him. For now, I just have to stick to NC.
You are right, Elgie … I didn’t want the dream to die because our first few months were simply romantic and beautiful! He made such a huge effort to win my heart and he managed to convince me that he was serious about me, and that he was ready for a committed relationship. Eight months of great times gone in the short space of a month.
I’m still confused some days, but I just plod on, one day at a time.
While it is possible that you were insensitive to him, what you are really saying is that, for a moment, you let YOUR feelings be more important to you than HIS feelings…which is OK. We all have bad moments. People who really love you will allow you some bad moments because they are mature enough to accept that everyone has bad moments and they are invested enough in YOU to allow that moment. As long as we don’t do anything that passes a boundary of appropriateness, a relationship where both people are invested should survive bad moments. As a side note, my narcissistic mum does not allow me to have bad moments, so loving acceptance is not guaranteed, even from family. We have to be watchful, perspicacious, about finding folks who are on our side.
But what you are doing is the “woulda coulda shoulda” dance. If only I hadn’t…(whatever)….then he would still be with me. If only I had…(whatever)….he would still want me. No he wouldn’t. He was always in it for the temporary haul. Temporary folks come on like gangbusters in the beginning of the quest, and I use the word “quest” because it is a “quest” for them – not a relationship. It’s a quest to win you over. Then, once they have you hooked, they lower their interest, stop pursuing, feign emotional problems, claim to be unsure, apologize for being too busy…etc….
I know your emptiness. I too had gone five years with no interest in or from anyone before I took up with ACMM. I do like him more than most men I’ve known. But now that he is out of my life, I don’t miss the emotional pain and now that my blinders are off, I see that he was not very giving toward me. I realize I was using him to avoid tackling some of my own issues. I look at the time/energy/effort I put into keeping him interested and wonder why I do not put that same time/energy/effort into achieving things for myself. It’s like I convinced myself that I could not achieve great things. Not talking about things like being President of the United States, but just about planning my own life and doing things that make me feel secure, that bring me joy, contentment, a sense of belonging.
Perfect timing. I was trawling the internet to understand what had just happened to me and I always know that I can find the answer on your site. And I was right. It set my mind at ease at least to get through the rest of this day. We just ended it or he did. Thank you