You bump into your ex that you haven’t seen or spoken to for a while. You’ve spent months moving on with your life and are just getting to a place where you’re feeling good about you, are considering dating, and are even feeling confident enough to hang out with them and chat for a while. When you get home, you’re still on a high from feeling like you ‘aced’ one of life’s tests and then you notice a text on your phone. “Hey… Was great hanging out tonight. I’ve missed you. How about I come round later?”
Your heart sinks and then quickly lifts with outrage. “Do they think I’m that easy?” You either ignore the text or decline their invitation, but you still end up ruminating on whether you really have made any progress over the past few months and what you said or did to ‘make’ them think that you might sleep with them. In some versions of this story that I’ve heard time and time again, the text is taken as a sign that 1) they haven’t moved on as much as they thought and 2) that it means that they’re destined to be together, hence they end up shagging.
It’s easy when you’re inclined to engage in the type of introspection that yields a self-blame perspective, to wonder if you have a sign on your forehead or are incredibly unlucky, or are essentially communicating the ‘truth’ about yourself without you realising. You might be like how I used to be and believe that you’re having an extended run of bad luck, but what you need to realise is that often, people are chancing their arm by working off The Time Of Day Principle.
Very simply, if you’re giving them the time of day, they assume that there is a possibility that they can be and do certain things. That is literally it. That time of day can simply be catching their eye or entering into a conversation. It could even be giving them directions! While it can be taking an interest in their conversation, not minding when they’re OTT intense and forward, not being turned off by their flirtatiousness in spite of the wedding ring, or other more obvious things, don’t get things twisted – it starts off as the time of day.
If they’re particularly arrogant, they may immediately make assumptions about you and draw misguided conclusions, which incidentally aren’t facts, but if they do manage to get more ‘airtime’ with you, all they’ll do is find reasons no matter how straw-like they are, to justify their actions.
The important thing to remember, is that they have the disposition to be and do whatever it is irrespective of your presence. Whatever they do next is not an indication of your worth as a person – it’s just representative of their own thinking, actions, character and values.
How do they find out if the initial assumption is correct? They chance their arm, which actually may be as natural as breathing to them, so it may not always be a premeditated, well thought out plan that they’re cooking up. It’s more likely that they’re in the moment, being reactive and running off their instincts.
When you chance your arm at something, it’s basically taking a risk and if it pays off, you’re quids in and if it doesn’t, then you know where you stand and there’s no real loss. The type of person who does this in dating and relationships, can also sometimes be like a persistent battering ram that loves a challenge – they may try again but aiming lower via a charm offensive, to see if you’re ‘really’ who you are. Or they’ll just move on to someone else.
If they already know you, like the ex in the example at the start, what you must remember is that they are not working on knowledge of you now; they’re working on assumptions based on what they know of you from previous situations and your pattern of involvement. They’re not wired up to some Relationship Air Traffic Control Centre that lets them know when they can home in on you – they only know how you’re actually going to react when you react. Yes you might do what you normally do, but equally you could turn around and tell them to jog on.
Just because they’re making an assumption, it doesn’t mean that you have to agree with it. It’s an assumption – it only looks like a fact to them if you start complying with it, so don’t.
The way not to agree with the action is to do what respects your own boundaries and values, not what you assume that their actions mean about you and then trying to work out what they might be thinking about you. Their actions mean everything about them.
It’s the same with sex on those first few dates – taking a chance alert! If you give the time of day to them trying it on, when actually, you don’t want to get down, it sends the message that sex is a possibility and then they start hustling and ‘negotiating’ by going on a charm offensive or passive aggressively trying to shift things in a sexy direction.
Likewise, you know when you’re doing No Contact and your ex ignores the fact that you clearly don’t want to engage or have even specifically asked for space? It doesn’t mean anything about you – it just means that they’re hard of hearing and don’t respect boundaries. It doesn’t mean that your efforts at NC are wasted because as long as you’re managing your end, the rest will gradually take care of itself. Give them the time of day, they’ll think they can coerce you into responding and that you still love them. And then go on their merry way.
Don’t want to be tapped up for a booty call? Don’t give them the time of day, especially when it’s late at night or last minute.
Don’t give your energy to things, people, and situations that detract from you so that they don’t get the time to make any more assumptions about you. Your actions will show that it’s about that time for them to jog on.
Your thoughts?
If you want to reduce the time of day you give to shady relationships, check out my books The Dreamer and the Fantasy Relationship and Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl which are available from my bookshop.
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The graphic on this one is HILARIOUS!
Booty time! More like FLUSH time!
The graphic is totally hilarious! I just E mailed it to my daughter.
You gotta laugh at the nerve of these guys figuring time of day = possibility of a shag! Though – ahem – given my relationship history, where a guy pretty much only had to invite me to lunch (not even buy me lunch) for me to initiate physicality, I certainly did my share of boosting these egos! No more!
And in return, we got our ego boosting/validation albeit temporary.
Natalie, you truly are gifted. Please keep writing.
Very simply, if you’re giving them the time of day, they assume that there is a possibility that they can be and do certain things. So true Natalie.
I guess what I take from this post is “DON’T GIVE THEM ANYTHING” to go on. Because at some point and as (I have been through this before) they will call eventually. You’ll get the sorry TEXT or poor excuse phone call at some point. You just have to decide in your mind to stand your GROUND and not give them an OPENING cause just remember things will be on their “terms” however you choose to respond so its just best not to. Leave the door shut. Although my EUM have been NC 3 weeks today I have made up in my mind that no matter what the case is. was. or what has changed since he went POOF… and for him to reconnect with me that I will not be there to answer or respond in anyway. You gotta just know that you deserve better from these ass clowns. I have to say that although its never easy it gets EASIER to just let it GO and you will be in a much better place once you start to do that. This site has helped me so much. I know @GRACE had to post to me several times and I appreciate her for it because we have to encourage each other and just have to spell it OUT whether we want to accept the criticism from each other or NOT. Relationships are really tough now days. It takes people who are in it for the long HAUL to make it work. If one person is all for it and the other person has lots of ISSUES going on with them and their lives it just won’t WORK. I have learned that i have to be willing to make some changes with ME and in my own life otherwise I’ll will be forced to keep attracting these same unavailable; PA; men. Hard pill to swallow but sometimes you just have to deal with the HARD UGLY TRUTH. Look at KATIE HOLMES AND TOM CRUISE.. DIVORCED… its really SAD but that goes to show you that no one is EXEMPT. LOVING anybody and actually staying committed can be real tough these DAYS…
When my ex EUM/AC contacted me after 8 months of NC, I, like a jerk, picked up the phone. I let him talk at me, as he was begging me to take him back, and I reminded him of ALL the reasons that he thought I was inferior to him and why he dumped me in the first place. While I thought I was “in control” of the situation (and I did reduce him to tears which was somehow very satisfying), and told him for all intents in purposes there was no way I was letting him back in my life, just by talking to him I believe he thought I was willing. There was back and forth for about three more weeks with him ‘working it’ and me telling him, again and again, all the shitty things he did. When it came down to it, he refused to acknowledge his crapola behavior and actually turned it back around on me and started acting like *I* wanted something from him.
Some people refuse to admit they treated someone poorly, yet think that that person will take them back if they beg enough. This douche couldn’t even say anything nice, couldn’t tell me if and how he had changed in the 8 months, etc.
Again, the mistake was even picking up the phone because he clearly took that as I sign that I was interested. Lesson learned.
@Lawrence
Silence is GOLDEN… THAT IS THE SMARTEST WAY TO CLARIFY. YOU CAN DO MORE WITH SILENCE THAN YOU CAN DO WITH ANYTHING.
I agree but man is it hard:)!
Hi, Awakened –
I think silence can be *extremely* ambiguous, not to mention punitive.
I think the right thing to do with someone you love or care about is offer them a clear explanation of your feelings (if you don’t care about them, or don’t know them terribly well, then silence might be just the ticket).
However, if they insist on harassing you (after you’ve clearly explained why you want to cut off contact, for example), *then* silence seems to me like the best option.
My last relationship heavily featured silence as a form of punishment. If I said or did something that was deemed wrong, then, often without explanation, the wall of silence would descend. That silence told me next to nothing about why offense was taken. I was forced to guess. So you can see why I’m not an unadulterated fan of this practice.
Lawrence
Using the silent treatment during an active relationship is punitive and manipulative, I agree.
In the aftermath of a breakup with a no-goodnik, though, silence may be necessary and healthy. By refusing to engage the other party, I’m protecting myself from any additional hurt. Especially when the other person has a history of boundary-busting — silence is the best way to move forward.
And the no contact thing is for ones who have boundary issues, low self-esteem, co-dependency and emotional unavailability themselves. Its for those who are incapable of stating what they need, incapable of accepting the fact that they can’t change another’s behavior, or ones who know they are in a toxic situation with someone who does not love them, respect their wishes, or leave ’em alone as it may.
It isn’t a punishment or a manipulation and once people have become more emotionally available, they don’t NC everybody and anybody who upsets them (I see that alot … not how its supposed to work. But, I think it the initial reaction to people learning about boundaries who’ve had none). Emotionally available people learn to communicate effectively, recognize unhealthy circumstances, make no attempts to change other people and are capable of riding out the ups and downs and uncertainties of a normal relationship.
I agree, silent treatment is manipulative. NC is totally different. NC is not silent treatment. NC is done, over out, left the building. NC isn’t punitive. NC means it’s done. It took me a year to get the difference. Do I get it now?
@You are right Awkward, Silence is golden, it is just so difficult to keep my mouth shut!!! Glad that you still doing NC…and understand that we are here for you, if you need support. I love Grace comments, she is honest, sometimes it can be “tough love” but that what we need it:-)
I still communicate with AC number 2, he keeps suggesting to meet up, so I sent him text at 7 am, I don’t care and don’t respect him, so I can send him messages at 7 am, why not?
I also had a “date” with a male friend, I know him for few months, so was bored and met him. We had a great intellectual conversation, he suggested to meet up again. I couldn’t meet up during the week, so this Friday evening was perfect for both of us. He sent me few messages with “what time and where?” I asked him to come to my area at 6pm, he never replied and yesterday I received his text on 10 pm (on Friday we supposed to meet!) saying : “I thought we are meeting tonight x” I didn’t answer him, why should I? HE was BEGGING me to meet him and he is MORE keen than me, and he doesn’t treat me right! So I am going to flush him…no more time wasters…
@NML, thank you yet again for brilliant post!
HS,
Why do you continue to communicate with someone you do not respect or care for? I don’t understand??
Allison, you asked me a good question…but I don’t know the answer:-( I actually like him to bits and want to be with him, but I want to hurt him…He is spending this weekend with his child and I am jealous of four years old boy!!! I wish he was with me. He is recently divorced and not ready for committed relationship, but he is ready for sex apparently!
HS,
This is not good!
You’re going to further self hurt by staying in communication with someone, who is incapable of being in a relationship – been there done that.
Time to do some self examination to understand why you are continuing with a man who has nothing to give.
I don’t understand the bit about the kid? Also, why do you not respect this man, and how can you possibly be with someone you don’t respect?
Time to cut contact and get some clarity, as it is the only way!
I can also guarantee that he has or will lose all respect for you for sticking around as friend/booty call – Lack of boundaries is unattractive to everyone.
I missed the but about trying to hurt him. This is disturbing!
Why are you putting so much energy into someone who clearly does not feel same?
Rule #1 on Baggage Reclaim is we DON’T pursue relationships with people we considers ACs.
If you don’t respect him enough to treat him with respect, this is not someone you should have in your life. Period. If he brings out the worst in you, causes you to act like an AC yourself, then he is bringing you down and is someone you need to stay away from.
It is not enough for us to keep ourselves safe from ACs; we also need to clean up our own act and not act like ACs ourselves!
Aw HS 🙁
I know that it isn’t what you want to hear, but hanging around someone in the hope that they’ll become ‘ready’ won’t work – especially if the relationship has degenerated into something where you actively want to hurt them.
If/when he IS ready, he’ll probably want a fresh start with someone that he hasn’t already hurt, and then you’ll just feel worse.
You don’t have to feel as angry and miserable as this is making you feel. Cut it off. When I’ve been in this situation I’ve been really worried about going from having a prospect (however rubbish) to *no* prospects, but really contact with this bloke is just going to keep you from meeting someone that you can like and be happy with.
You’re so right Awakened, they hate it because the silence is so loud and clear.
Its funny how we all read the same thing but come away with different points. Sometimes I’m like, “Did we read the same post???” Lol!! I can not recall how many times I’ve gotten the text message or the call for the hookup and thought, “if only I weren’t or hadn’t done such and such. He would think I was worth more.” They are who they are regardless of what we do, they are just being who they are. And oh yeah, keep NC. These kind are not respectful, loving, or looking out for our best interest.
go lo j!
what you’re saying is how a person feels when their self esteem is intact. you recognize bullshit and worthless offers for what it is/they are right off the bat.
in other words, for all of us – were our senses of self esteem intact when we first encountered our ACs, EUM/Ws … we never would have given them a chance at all. and we wouldn’t now be vulnerable to being lured back into encounters with them on the basis of a late night text.
go lo j. go go go.
You’re so right about NC. It has nothing to do with whether they try to get in touch with you, it’s all about whether you let them have that access. Spot on as always, Nat.
“Chancing your arm”?? That must be a Briticism – never heard it before (I’m American :). I believe I understand what you mean, however. It’s like the time I presented my arm to my neighbor’s snarling Rottweiler as a peace offering. 🙂
To me, the question about what’s implied by certain kinds of contact with your ex – or by anyone’s actions, really – comes down to a personal, very subjective, interpretation. It seems obvious (to me) that there is no absolutely certain way of knowing what the other party intends without asking them to clarify that.
If you’re being friendly with an ex or (say) an opposite-sex friend, there are many possible implications, and if you aren’t making your intent as clear as possible I think you’re inviting trouble. Yes, one isn’t entitled to make assumptions – but one is entitled to *speculate*.
Rather than complain about your ex’s assumptions or speculations, in my view it’s better to clarify your intentions to him or her in no uncertain terms. If you don’t do that, then I would wonder about your intentions – and he or she will probably wonder as well.
I believe “chancing your arm” is the equivalant to rolling the dice or taking a gamble here in America.
thanks, kelly w.
ok, britishers, would someone please also kindly define for the yanks:
– well shot (of something/one)
– quids in
i figured out “shag” all by myself.
feel free to ask for translations from the president’s english. …although, i’m sure you’re all already well-versed in our idiotisms.
Although I’m a yank, I think “quids in” would mean “bucks up” and “well shot” would mean they’re “history”. I figured out shag all and jog on by myself too. I like the briticisms better.
‘Well shot of someone’ is just another way of saying well rid of them.
‘quids in’ means that you’ve profited – a quid is slang for a pound sterling.
Hope that helps! I’m trying to think of other incomprehensible Britishisms that we might use, I’m fairly sure that all of my posts are littered with peculiar vernacular…
I always read and appreciate your comments yoghurt. I ALWAYS get your peculiar vernacular. That’s what I find so amazing. It’s the same phenomenon, no matter the idioms. Hug your little boy. You are incredible and such an inspiration.
As a non-native speaker using English mostly in a corporate environment, I so rejoice at those juicy colloquialisms, Brit or Yank! Thank you, All, for these treats that I’d never come across otherwise!
yoghurt –
word to what runnergirl said. its a pleasure.
What about “tits up”?
Ah I also figured “shag” and “effing” out by myself (though I´m no native english speaker).
I guess it’s the same as “belly up” or “bust” or simply “not working out”.
Effing is a good one too, it took me a while to figure it out though.
‘tits up’ means dead in the water – I think it’s a variation of ‘floating belly up’.
Aw thanks runnergirl – you’ve just made my morning! You’re an inspiration to me as well. 🙂
I will go and give him your hug in a second – he’s been up since 6:30am so I’m hoping that he’ll slow down in a little while.
Lilia, “tit’s up” is a reference to something that is no longer working, eg It’s all gone tits-up. Bit like my relationship with the AC actually.
lawrence-
one problem with your very noble theory of clarification: people who act like total tools do not, as a rule, clarify their intentions. to do so would be antithetical to their Total Tool principles. in fact, they are masters at masking intentions. and therein lies the rub…
Lawrence, I agree it is better to clarify your intentions. However, asking someone to clarify their intentions doesn’t guarantee they will. As pointed out by CC people who act like tools don’t like to clarify their intentions. I asked my EUM to clarify his intentions several times only to be met with downright lies (I now know) or ambiguous responses which certainly left me “speculating”. Now I wish I’d speculated all the way out the door.
@CHRISTINE
you’ll be okay. I had a long distance thing going with my EUM who I had been talking with for last 7 months and we just saw eachother face to face weeks ago when he came to visit for the first time. LOST HIS JOB as he was on his way to see me and weeks later he went POOF…. I was horrified weeks ago when it happened. CRIED; SULKED; AND CRIED AGAIN. We had such a great time when he came; thought we had connected (blah blah blah) but apparently we did not. this is also not the first dissapearing ACT.. ITS ACTUALLY THE SECOND ONE… I opened that door the first time he went POOF and he came back, This time its CLOSED FOR GOOD.. Good luck to you.
lol … great one Natalie! I 100% agree!
I just broke it off with my MM. I told him I didn’t want to do this any longer, and that I respect myself (and his family, who I don’t know personally) too much to continue. His response:
“A part of me is really proud of you for doing this, but part of me feels a huge loss. I share your feelings and concerns. I know this is the right thing for the both of us, and I am still here if you ever need to talk or chat.”
We were long distance – only been together three times in a year, so it was a very heavy emotional affair.
Although I am very sad, and the tears are falling, the feeling of knowing I did the right thing – and that I really am worth more – is keeping me going.
This post comes at a perfect time for me – because I know this road is going to be hard – and I need to remember to stay NC.
From what I have read (on this site and others) about these types of situations, he’ll probably come sniffing around eventually. It’s up to ME to keep the door closed.
Wish me luck.
Christine, good for you, way to go and though it really hurts, you’ve pulled the tooth. So encouraging whenever another woman shows her self-respect and decides to no longer be someone’s option.
“I’m really proud of you”?? “I’m still here if you need to talk”?? Pardon me while I gag. Sounds like a condescending jerk who sees himself as irresistible and that you couldn’t help hurting yourself to be with. And who thinks he can offer YOU support when he’s the married cheater. Please.
Again, congrats, you’re well shot of him.
christine-
“a part of me is really proud of you… …i share your feelings and concerns…”???? oh, man, i just want to slap him. hard. i know, what else is he supposed to say, but still.
just like the (but truly i know there is no comparison) separated guy who said to me, when i told him i couldn’t see him again because he so obviously wasn’t ready for anything real, after he had chased chased CHASED me, totally future faking and professing he was ready (he really wasn’t, he subsequently told me he loved his new life and didn’t want it to change), “i support you!! i’ll miss you, but i support you!!” …you support me??? as in, my decision to tell you to get lost? after you *chased* me like that? what the…. yeah, i just wanted to slap him too.
i’m so very sorry you’re hurting. breaking off any connection is so difficult, so painful. and this may just hurt more, but i learned it from natalie and have found it to be sooooo true: he’s just not that special. sorry. but its true. nobody who would do that to his wife (sorry), and then seemingly grudgingly let you go when you have the decency to end it cleanly (thereby, coincidentally, making it easy for him), could possibly be that special.
i guess what i’m saying is that i want you to get a little, productively, usefully, angry. then you’ll see more easily how you made the right choice to end it, that it was a screwed situation, and that you deserve soooooo much more, especially from yourself. and it will make it easier to keep that door closed. there is love and warmth for you in healthy places. right now. truly.
you’ll be ok, honey. and i am sorry you’re hurting. you can do it. you absolutely can do it.
Christine
Congratulations on ending things with your MM – or should I say your exMM as I have come to name mine since I went NC 4 days ago. You did do the right thing. Every day that goes by affirms that for me. Although I feel a bit confused and like I have suffered a loss, the others here are right – MM’s are NOT that special. I hope you never take him up on his suggestion to `talk or chat`. Mine said he had felt a huge loss too, and said that if we could still be friends it would make the loss seem less. I finally saw that wasn’t good for me – with the help of the BR community. When I told him I needed time and space away from him, he tried to modify the NC arrangement too, by suggesting we `keep in touch`, and mentioned a movie in which people who had ended an affair kept in touch. Puh-lease! Why would they want this? To feel like they are not complete jerks? To keep us in their “harem”? My exMM used to boast that he was still in touch with former girlfriends from years ago, plus another woman he had had some “dalliances” with during his marriage. I was going along with the whole “friends” idea too, for almost 2 months, but that hurt and confused me too. Please don’t consider chatting with or being friends with this man. As Natalie says, it is giving them the “time of day” and suggesting there may be more to follow.
It seems your exMM was very cooperative with the whole “ending it” thing. My exMM seemed that way too (although he made a huge fuss when we went from lovers to friends). He “understood and respected” my decisions. It was almost disappointing but I think they partly do it to save face. I don’t know about yours, but mine liked to think of himself as a “good guy” even when behaving in shady ways. He just made some “mistakes and really bad choices” was how he put it.
Cc made a good point that it IS to their advantage also, that WE have made a nice clean cut for them. No messy confrontations for them to deal with, and they get away scott-free! Let’s just return these guys to their wives and lives. If we stay NC they can not hurt us any longer. Strength to you.
And… BANG, there’s my ‘deep and romantic’ connection with the EUM right there…
How very romantic 🙁
hugs, yoghurt. big warm ones.
After the age of 30, most of us go from zero to butt-naked in 5.4 seconds.
Christine,
I too was with my ex-MM for ten years. As I read this post and the responses I could feel my anger rising. At myself. I have been out of the relationship now for 19 months. In that time, he has targeted several women, the last one contacted me in November (probably not the last however), and he married the new victim in February. This is marriage number three for him and the pattern repeats. A guy who cheats and does not sit around and give himself LOTS OF TIME to figure out why he’s a cheater, and WHY he hurt so many WHILE he was cheating isn’t changing. So really, you dodged a bullet. And in truth, it’s less about them, than it is about US because we LET them. This is where I’m REALLY angry with myself now. An MM is a symptom of a deeper problem with US.
Recently, for the fist time in 19 months, I found myself attracted to another man. I have worked really hard in therapy during this time, on myself and my issues, implemented boundaries where I have had none, purging TONS of abuse trauma, and NOT DATING AT ALL because i know that my tendency is to run from me, to someone else who would be just as dangerous as the last. It isn’t just shady characters that run from one relationship to the next. It’s unhealed victims too. It’s women WITHOUT boundaries and self respect. Anyway, so I have four immediate boundaries that are in place at all times if I am attracted to a man or he to me. 1. Is he married. 2. Is he living with someone and/or does he have a girlfriend. 3. Is he gay or bisexual. 4. Is he toxic? THis guy I was attracted too (he was attracted to me too) was not married, did not have a gf or live in and was not gay. COOL! This is where I got to try out my boundaries! So he formally introduced himself one day and we started chatting. IN the span of 30 minutes he played the victim (he had a “mentally abusive ex), had a father who abandoned the family at ten, two children that live with him. Never married. Ok, so I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt because we ALL have baggage, right? I said I felt he was attractive, and I had been through an extremely abusive relationships for ten years, that I had PTSD and depression as a result, and that I was NOT, NOT, NOT ready for a relationship AT ALL< but was willing to consider a friendship, if it moved VERY slow as friendships are cool— with the right people. He said he was…
“It isn’t just shady characters that run from one relationship to the next. It’s unhealed victims too. It’s women WITHOUT boundaries and self respect.”
So true K!! I think that’s why it is so important we give ourselves and break and some serious compassion instead of berating and belittling ourselves all the time.
I believe that there is room for certain exs to return into your life in a different way at some point. My sister has multiple exs as friends – with no trouble. I have a few exs as friends. And I have friends with the same. To me, the thing about NC is that it looks and feels different in each situation. There are many women I have dated that I wouldn’t open my life back up to. When it was done, it was done. And there have been times I have had to ignore attempts made to reconnect from a few of them. On the otherhand, I have had a few exs return after many months or even years in one case, and there was still a connection there – not romantic, but one worth keeping. You have to do NC for as long as it takes to let go of the old feelings and attachments to the romantic relationship. Natalie’s text example demonstrates how someone might think if they haven’t quite moved on. Because if you have, then receiving a suggestive text wouldn’t ruffle you. You’d either ax the person from your life for good or make it very clear you’ve moved on and would only consider being friends. You would be able to navigate responses to your boundary setting without upset or concern about how well you are doing with moving on.
Nathan, I agree with you, in some cases, if the person has not been a disrespectful jerk – the type you would not want any friendship or contact with, it can work. I was with a guy for 2 years (off and on) who was emotionally unavailable (had what my daughter, a psych major, would describe as an “attachment disorder”) and so was crazymaking in that department – yet intellectually and interest wise, we were so on a page, communicated like peas in a pod and had a lot of fun together. It took 10 months of NC to distance myself from him, as he could always make me lose my physical self control just by looking into my eyes. I had to get over him and NC was the way. He was wrapped up in moving across the country and so didn’t even try to contact me during this time. I got OVER him, eventually we got back in touch, and we can now have an occasional E mail or phone call to touch base, and it is pleasant, and I no longer hurt. I am at peace with the fact that it is over and we are not relationship material, but glad that we can be friends. I actually consider it ideal if I don’t have to permanently move on from someone I invested part of my life with and who I cared about. (However, my ex husband and recent future faker, not a fat chance.) And Nathan is right, also – if this guy now sent me a suggestive text message, I’d respond with humor and it wouldn’t get my goat.
“getting to a place where you’re feeling good about you”. You mean, you are healing, you aren’t injured as you were when you parted.
He sees you, and figures you “got over it”, when what you got over were the injuries that being close to HIM caused YOU.
Looking and acting like a healthy adult is an attractive trait.
I would accept his offer as a sign that you are healing — but reject him. It should be comforting to know that even he notices you are healing, or all you would have heard was his “me, me, me:” plaint of missing you, needing you, life can’t go on, the coffee tastes flat, yada, yada. Walk away; turn toward continued healing, not back to him and more injury.
When I decided to move on from the ex EUM (got married, got a kid, asked me to be his mistress because I am the only person in the world who got him….right!) I changed my number, changed my job and basically flashed out all the people we had in common. I needed a new start and the sting at the time made me distrustful of literally everyone. I did keep one line of communication open- emails, because I knew he hated emailing and I felt ‘safe’ with that option. Well, its been about 3 years and recently he sent me an email saying that his child died and his wife left him. I felt terrible and we emailed back and forth for some time until he asked if I knew someone he could hook up with and what I was up to…….It got me thinking about all the times I have sang Adele’s Someone Like You….I did not want someone like him. At all! I knew what he was after and I got a good amount of grief from my friends for not asking for his number to call him and ‘console’ (read shag) him. If it weren’t for BR I would be revisiting a mistake right now. There was a good amount of romanticising that started on…Like we were destined to be and he would now see that my love was THE ONE. After 2 years of BR I was not having any of this. I made it clear (in email that I was not available and as soon as I did…poof! But in a way I am grateful that this happened. It made me realise how I have been holding back from a great guy I have known for over a year now. Thank you Nat and BR for sharing and supporting.
You have no idea how many people you help with your experience and wisdom. Please keep writing, you are such an inspiration.
good one Brad K. Looking and acting like a healthy adult is an attractive trait.
It never ceases to amaze me how the EUMs and ACs come back when you’re feeling good and you’r right – that inner sense of strength that comes from healing – or at least being LESS injured – must be intoxicating:).
The last time I got the late night text (not even a phone call ffs!) I said, ah no thanks. recipe for pain.
and that. was. that.
As somone who has failed at NC on more than one occasion, I finally got “don’t give them the time of day”. He has tried several times to contact me. He must miss that pedastel that I finally knocked him off (through NC). He’s right where he belongs and he’s not moving.
@ Lawrence,
I can deeply commiserate with you on the punishment of silence and it’s so childish and cowardly. My “friend” added little “extras” to his silences, for example he would be SO talkative and nice, doing things I needed and then…nothing. Dead silence. It’s quite abusive, actually. I’ve never seen this personally until this person did this, and it happened more than once. I played my role and called until this last time. Never ever again. So now he is confused. Good. Here’s the best part: He lives across the street from me! NC all the way, baby!
I agree with u nancy
Passive agressive is no good treatment
When it comes to losing one self respect better no contact
I lose u but I l not lose my self respect
I shall be a winner not a loser
I remembered a long time story mr unavailable whom I dated twice told me that he wants hugs n since I m not available for that he doesnot want me so I told him go to hell n we went into no contact
……..re ‘Time fo Day’ I have been following Natalie’s posts for some time now and all comments……… as a brainwashing exercise for myself since splitting with the EUM……have 3 months NC now……so think out of woods!….however, seem to have about three friends wanting ‘more’…….have been doing dinners and coffee, and pondering requests for dates etc………should the time of day rule be applied when you know a friend wants more?…..or do you think that as long as you’ve made it clear your not up for a relationship……..its okay to carry on maintaining a friendship……..?
I’ve been thinking about different kinds of quick tests for things. DEFINITION seems to be lost in many situations and this is how ambiguity takes root.
There is a potential for harm now because they want you, YOU are there lapping up the attention, you KNOW hey want more.
Process the information and ROLL BACK. Stating your position isn’t enough – it must be followed with matching consistent action. I would suggest taking a break – and you can tell them this, for say a few months so that they get over their feelings. Harsh, but what is the alternative?
Friends can also be used as a back door to a relationship, not just casual relationships.
I’d like to tell my disrespectful ex to take his f*cking watch and shove it! Not on MY time!
AC#1 still sends me a pointless email once every couple of months, although I haven’t responded in two years. The most recent one said, “Yo what up.” If this is how he behaves when I *don’t* give him The Time of Day, it’s no wonder I couldn’t get rid of him for seven years when I *would* respond to all his contact.
AC#3 has tried to contact me by phonecall a couple times since he moved away, but I am not responding, as he has shown me that he is a user.
I have maintained friendships with several exes – always the ones who proved themselves during the relationship to be good people but we simply didn’t work out romantically. I have no desire to be friends with any of my three ex-ACs.
Good Lord, I was a fool! This column is a manual for identifying the shady, lame attempts they put forward by “chancing their arm” that I ignored/thought I was the exception to the rule at my own peril re: my recent history with my ex AC. I truly am no longer the girl who cried wolf. He was a predator and I will no longer be his prey.
It has only been a few weeks NC again now after months of NC broken multiple times by him. I knew I should have stood firm with NC and was humiliated that I fell for his crap yet again. I did finally decide I was done forevermore after the most recent debacle but this spelled out so well how I ended up back with him again and again. Thank you!
I wrote a response earlier and wasn’t mindful of the 2400 limit characters **sigh**.
Anyway, Brad that is true, however, to a predator, which many AC’s and EUM’s are, a former victims healing is like BLOOD TO A SHARK. The appropriate response is NO response. Why? Because HER healing is a CHALLENGE to him. He wants to test her boundaries to see how “healed” she really is. And they will be extremely manipulative and cunning to do it too. Predators are attracted to what appears to be healthy women, make no mistake, in fact, one of “those” women would be a GREAT challenge to knock her off her pedestal, which is exactly as he views her, WITH ENVY. The difference between a healthy woman and an unhealthy woman is that a healthy woman wouldn’t BOTHER. If she did bother, it wouldn’t be for long at all.
Nathan, I appreciate what you’re saying, but that does not apply to AC’s and EUM”s which occupy most of this blog, given the amount of victims here. I have had two men in that two years, from relationships of twenty years ago, COME BACK and NEITHER had changed. It’s a no bueno. If they were an asshole in the relationship, they’ll be an asshole in a friendship and used all kinds of mind effery games to one up, create drama, jealousy. NO. THANK. YOU.
Ladies, I really can’t stress how IMPORTANT, in fact, CRITICAL it is for you to take your time to heal. NO. RELATIONSHIPS. AT. ALL. If you do not heal yourselves and deal with your heaping amounts of stuff, particularly that gathered from multiple relationships with assclowns and EUM’s it is likely that you will CONTINUE to pick them. You cannot “pretend” you have boundaries and self esteem. It is a process that takes a long time, because CHANGE takes a long time. This is why it’s so assinine to think that an asshole can “change” cuz he says he can or because he’s good for a week. Nuh-uh. Change is hard enough for us when we really DO it, impossible for them. They derive too many benefits from abusing to change.
Secondly, be very careful about projecting YOUR empathy onto others who are COMPLETELY Incapable of it and most assclowns and EUM’s are not. I see stuff here all the time of “Oh he’s just had a miserable childhood and reallly, in his heart, he’s just hurting”, or, “he just can’t commit because hes been so hurt!”, or “His ex wife or mommy (or whatever the case may be)…
Kelli,
I could not agree more as so much of what you wrote resonate with my own experience. And I would go further than healing from past ACs and EUMs and add healing from your childhood traumas. Looking back, I find that most of my bad relationships were a repeat of my AC mom and my EU father. I am just tired of re-opening over and over again the same wounds instead of letting them gently heal by treating myself right. No contact is just the sensible course of action when you realize these people wont change, or you are just plain tired to wait for them to change. Life is too short to depend on them to make right by you on their time table. They had their shot at it and then its FLUSH time.
**fnishing message from above, UGH!
ANyway, don’t make excuses for him, nor allow him to make excuses for himself. Just because you were abused as a child, doesn’t mean you go around hurting others and are unwiling to commit or change. Projecting empathy onto them says you have not let go of him. They are NOT capable of the feelings that YOU ARE. They sniff this out like guard dogs too. An asshole is an asshole. But if you’re not, then work on yourselves for a LONG while, implement the changes you need in your life and then you WON”T get another assclown or EUM. YOu will have WAY too much respect for yourself to BOTHER. So if you do see an ex, do yourself a favor: IGNORE THEM. You piss them off, even if for a second and make them look foolish even for a second. THAT is moving on. I did it to my ex and it was EMPOWERING!!!
Natalie,
Thanks for your wisdomand clarity. Over the last 18months it has helped me tremendously in recovering from an affair.
Recently xMM and I met up again to say a civil farewell after 16 months NC, Guess what? It was that “TIME OF DAY.’
No sooner had I met him than he was pusing the limits..asking how I saw ‘our” future together and that he would be happy to start up the affair again HUH?????? last I heard his future was very firmly with his wife.
Then he made me fall down laughing because he said that he was doing everything in his power to make things right and better for his wife in their marriage.
I had to tell him that he really wasn’t ,because he was still asking me to rekindle the affair. He was very puzzled and didn’t get it. Got all indignant, with the good man, upright citizen, been married for 45 years crap.
Thank the Gods that I saw him that one last time. It really made me see that I was dealing with somebody who was not quite right in the head. It has allowed me to power ahead and really let it all go for good.
Best wishes,
Berrybliss
WOW! I am SO grateful for the support – as today has been VERY hard. I keep wanting to text him. Keep thinking about the sex, the laughs, the “you’re my favorite person”‘s.
Then, I think about his FOUR kids (all under age of ten, three of them girls), and think – how he thinks he’s a great father. Just because they “don’t know”. Does that make it any better?
I miss him – but really – I think I’m just missing the attention and fantasy of it all. My brain is playing tug-of-war with my heart.
Today is just the official “day 1” of NC.
I know this road will be long. Therapy appointment Monday (every Monday, actually), so I’m looking forward to that.
Reading your stories helps me more than you know.
Grateful for Natalie, and all of you.
With your help, and time, I’ll find myself again – and really like her.
Letting go of MM is a great start, I think.
Oh Christine, yes you are absolutely right, letting go of MM (better to phrase it as Kicking Out MM of Your Life – more empowering!) is the very best gift to give to yourself, along with therapy, time and BR! I think for me it was one of the most painful experiences of my adult life, and yet it has turned out to be the experience that changed everything because I finally sat still and learned all about myself and how to love myself. It isn’t going to be easy but it is such an opportunity, a gift to you xxx
Christine
Sounds like your exMM liked to be seen as “good” as long as he wasn’t caught, too. Amazing with the denial from them AND us. You say you miss the sex and attention. Me too! Even when exMM and I were in the “just friends” stage in the last couple of months, it would still make my heart race to get a text from him, as I realize now I was lapping up the “validation” that he still wanted to have a connection with me, even with no sex. Now that I have read BR for the last 10 days, including reading former posts from Natalie, I realize even more that when we are “with” a MM, we are not “with” him at all. Togetherness and closeness comes from building a life together, and seeing each other face to face more than just once a week or whatever they can get away with.
When I stopped being a lover to my exMM,, I told him I wanted to work on getting more honesty and integrity into my life. I asked him what he was working towards, and he said “I need to get caught up on paying some bills and getting my finances in order.” The idea of working on HIMSELF as a person, as a husband, as a friend to other people, seemed to be nowhere on his list of priorities.
I know it is so hard not to text or email, and the withdrawal is difficult. I feel lucky to have done most of my sobbing-till-I-could-sob-no-more back when i found out about the OOW in my exMM’s life. That was hell. Going NC has been difficult, but I am having good “growing pains” from focusing on ME. I am now on day 5 NC, and I can truly say I am GLAD not to have a text or email from him! I know I am not “out of the woods” yet, but feeling better about NC every day. I wish the same for you 🙂
Learner and others
Learner:
“I told him I wanted to work on getting more honesty and integrity into my life. I asked him what he was working towards, and he said “I need to get caught up on paying some bills and getting my finances in order.”
Well, that says it all doesn’t it! (Sorry, but it made me laugh out loud!); it just tells you everything you need to know about where you and your future together are on his list of priorities – not on it at all! My ex EUM used to say similar to me when i was hoping to hear that he had some pans for “us”.He had no plans at all. And these are the guys that we not only give the time of day to, we invest years in them and their nonsense and in what we imagine is their potential – they don’t have any potential. They are pests.
Learner,
Texts are crumbs. You get a crumb diet. You get crumb communication. You get ‘the time of day’ a few times a day – in crumbs. You get a crumb relationship. You get the crumbs of his time, the crumbs of his emotions, the crumbs of all of his tomorrows.
And we’re supposed to think ‘yay, finally, the man of my dreams!’. Nope, it’s the relationshit from hell.
When you think of giving him the time of day again via a text or an email – just think ‘Crumbs’! You’d only be adding to the crumb problem. You’d only be letting him know that your still invested in doing the crumb thing.
Yup Fearless, totally spot on. I hate crumbs on my floor and in my inbox. It’s the same thing. Sheesh woman, you are totally on fire these days. I can’t sweep up the crumbs and dump them in the trash fast enough. Every time there is a single crumb on the floor, I sweep it up and dump it. I may be OCD. After being fed nothing but crumbs for two years, I get to flush every little crumb down the toilet. I want to smack myself upside the head for getting excited when he sent a text.
Back to sweeping my floor. Even my daughter thought I got new tile.
Fearless. I totally agree that texts alone do not a relationship make, and that they plus emails and IM’s truly are “crumbs”. The thing about my exMM, though, was that we did spend what I felt was a lot of time together face to face. Our employer allows “flextime”, where we do not have to physically show up at work every day as long as we get our expected work done. So exMM and I worked very hard by putting in 12 or 13 hour work days some days then spending whole days together. I was actually surprised at the amount of time we did spend together, especially when you factor in conferences and workshops and evening courses we took together. Having said that, it’s all just crumbs, really, isn’t it? The fact that he still wanted to spend whole days with me, even after we had gone to “just friends” status did not mean anything. He could just have been waiting for the time that I couldn’t resist him any more and resumed “lover” status. He said he loved spending time with me regardless of what we did. He did NOT say “I have finally put my money where my mouth is and left my wife, and you witnessed me breaking up with OOW, so let’s get ourselves emotionally healthy and start our new life together, faithfully, from now till the end of time”. Ew, just imagining that now actually makes me feel creeped out a bit. Is it normal to feel disgusted with someone you still feel you may love, and only months ago wanted to spend your life with?
“Is it normal to feel disgusted with someone you still feel you may love, and only months ago wanted to spend your life with?”
YES, it’s normal. Although part of the disgust may be a projection of our own feelings of ourselves, for wasting so much time and energy on someone SO undeserving of our love.
Keep faithful to NC…you’ve got this!
BRwiser
Thanks for helping me to feel normal 🙂
Yes, I also have a growing disgust of my behaviour during the 3 year “dark period”. It’s strange, I actually feel more authentic already, after shutting the door on this mess for only a week. Kinda like when I quit smoking, I could start to taste food again after a week without the weed. I think I can do this!
Learner
yes, it is still crumbs – it’s the crumbs of the kind of relationship you deserve and should be able to expect from a man.
This ‘friends status’ is just a ruse – on both your parts. He’s chancing his arm that you won’t stick to ‘no sex’, afterall, when you discovered there was another OOW (that he’d been cheating and lying to you as well as his wife and to the other woman as well) you still didn’t tell him to piss off – you wanted to be his friend, for goodness sake!
To paraphrase Nat’s post. ‘Very simply, he treated you like crap, you still gave him the time of day – wanting to be his friend, so he assumes there is still the possibility that you’ll be up for more than that once you get over your humph at the OOW.
‘These guys are acting in the moment, being reactive and running off their instincts….they only know how you’re actually going to react when you react.
The ‘friends status’ on your part is also feigned. You know it, Learner! It’s all about showing him what he’s missing.
your first mistake was getting involved with the MM. The second was not telling him to sling his hook once you found out about the OOW. This point of Nat’s illustrates the point: “The way not to agree with the action is to do what respects your own boundaries and values, not what you assume that their actions mean about you and then trying to work out what they might be thinking about you. Their actions mean everything about them.”
And our actions mean everything about us! And that, in a nutshell, is what Nat and BR have finally taught me.
Fearless
True about the mistakes. And he actually came out and said that he “never really had a plan”. Soooo…”Acting in the moment” is right, “chancing his arm”, pushing the envelope, seeing what he could get away with, with everyone in his life!
I can’t fully agree re: me *wanting* to be friends though. He begged, cried for hours, reminded me of all we have shared. I guess I am a softie and always give people the benefit of the doubt. I figured (albeit wrongly) that it wouldn’t hurt to stay friends with him. I never wanted to get back to lovers though. That is what brought me to BR in the first place. I came here looking for advice on how to get out of the mess, and I found it. From Nat and all you amazing people. My actions have now changed! Never would have dreamed I could cancel that last date. But I did. Plus went NC. Thanks all!!!
learner,
as you said about him:
What a whiner!
This is a man who is not going to take any responsibility for his own shady behaviour – everything is everyone else’s fault; everyone is putting on him; he is only trying to please everyone and all he gets is complaints.
He sounds just like my ex EUM. His favourite whine was “I just can’t do anything right!!” and off he’d storm in a flurry of self-pitying indignance – again!
This time next year learner, you’ll be utterly bewildered that you ever had the stomach for this guy’s nonsense. Keep going!
Marianna,
I love the “kicking out the MM” idea. I feel empowered. Thank you for that !
Christine, I read a great simple analogy in a novel yesterday that I think might be helpful for you….going to ‘him’ for the attention & comfort you’re seeking right now is like drinking saltwater. To go back to the source of your pain to curb the feeling of loss you’re experiencing will do nothing to cure the long-term pain. It’s just a band-aid. Sit through the uncomfortable, and you will benefit in the long run. I know it’s hard…but drinking saltwater to cure your thirst will only parch you further. Hope this helps.
Empowered. I know you wrote this to Christine, but I also found the saltwater analogy helpful. Thank you!
Christine, you want to get rid of him for good?
Tell his wife about your relationship.
This will seriously burn any residual bridges you may be secretly building in your own heart, and it may well burn his ass as well, which can only be a good thing. He is a liar and a cheater.
Just a thought.
I don’t think you should tell anyone anything. Its his business to deal with his wife, not yours.Removing yourself is the right way to show respect.
This post is great Natalie. I thought someone stuck a “Kick Me” sticker on the back of my shirt. I thought I was a MM magnet. Nope, it’s just like you said, I gave them the time of day. That’s it. Just a smile, minor convo, and flames. They were chancing their arms and I mistakenly thought it was all about me. I feel like a jerk at 53 and just learning this basic lesson.
It really did feel like the exMM was hooked up to some air traffic control network and knew just when to hone in. Nope. He was just acting based on a two-year history of how I reacted when he sent a “miss you” text. He used to say, ‘guys are simple’. For me, it was complicated. It isn’t anymore. Guys may be simple, who knows. It’s very simple for me now. It’s just a simple matter of boundaries. Darn, I miss fantasy-land though. Your Dreamer Book is the best ever. I didn’t realize how much I filled in the missing details and denied overt facts with fantasy. He, he, he, “Somewhere over the Rainbow” just came on. “What a wonderful world this could be”. That means something different now. Thank you.
AC/MM’s don’t get the time of day…what a wonderful world this is.
Runnergirl
I used to think I gave off some sort of signal to my exMM also, as he *always* seemed to know when to time his emails, texts and phone calls to keep me hooked, even after I had tried to break things off with him (about 4 times over the 3 years). As I watched him operate with people at work, I saw him doing “thoughtful” things for all kinds of people – especially women. He always goes OTT in doing a job someone asks him to do, or he makes himself available to help people as if he is some sort of servant. People think he’s “such a great guy” and “will do anything for anyone”. I now realize he is like this for his own gratification and validation. He is a people- pleaser and “sucks up” to whomever he thinks will give him the time of day, and who may be of benefit to him in some way. He LOVES it when people thank him publicly. (We even took a course together at work, and he sucked up to the teacher in a subtle but apparently effective way). He said “guys are simple” too. How simple is my exMM’s MO? Do a whole bunch of favours for a whole bunch of people, and see who bites. I bit hard, and got a flaming, toxic gob-full of tainted “love”. Natalie, Fearless and others are right. We are not special to them, THEY are not special, period! Just learning this myself in my late 40’s.
I like your ending line – “AC/MM’s don’t get the time of day…what a wonderful world this is.” Yessss!!!!!!!
Congratulations Lerner. Based on your post above, it sounds like you are really committed to NC and the door is shut. Good for you girl. Natalie’s post really gave me pause. My affair did start with something as simple as giving him the time of day and flirting back even though I knew he was married. He was chancing his arms and I bit hard. We aren’t magnets. A prior comment on BR summed it up for me: There are EU/AC/MM’s out there just like there are piles of dog poo on the sidewalk. My job is to not step in it. Keep your door shut and stay away from the poo.
PS. You asked about “faux NC” in another comment: For me, it was going NC but then falling off the wagon (repeatedly). I kept the fantasy going that he would spontaneously combust from a pile of smelly dog sh*t into an honest, respectful, committed man.
Stay strong and stay NC.
Hey runner
I know what you mean with this:
“I kept the fantasy going that he would spontaneously combust from a pile of smelly dog sh*t into an honest, respectful, committed man.”
Weird how OWs never consider that it’s his wife who would be the beneficiary in the event of this fantasy playing out – not the OW.
OWs are living in a paradoxical situation of their own making: She wants him to turn into a good man so that he can be with her but to be a good man he’d necessarily have to dump her and go be a good man!
Sorry if off topic now! I’ll stop blabbing about this now!
Fearless – great point about the wife benefiting from a MM becoming “a good man”. I used to wish that the exMM would not have gotten involved with me in the first place, since he is obviously committed to staying with his wife. I know, I know, I was complicit in his cheating and lying, and I never should have given HIM the “time of day”. But still, it *would* have been nice if he had restrained himself. His wife would have benefited, I would have benefited. Oh, but then there’s the OOW. Yuck. Sooooo glad to be out of this mess!!!
Fearless,
I agree with the OW paradox you describe and it probably doesn’t pertain to only OW’s. For me, the last 3 years or so really did start out as simply as Natalie describes. He was chancing his arms, I gave him the time of day, and wham. He took a risk (albeit calculated–since I responded positively) and ended up quids in, for a while. If I had boundaries in place, I would have run and there would be no loss. Trust me, I wasn’t thinking about his wife, him turning into a good man or anybody dumping anybody or any beneficiary. Plainly, I wasn’t thinking at all. I was running off my instincts. There was no premeditation (there was no meditation either). My reaction to advances from a MM was representative of my own thinking, actions, character and values.
Once I found myself trapped in the paradox of my own making, it was even more difficult to get out cos I trapped myself…as you once so elegantly described.
I really have to watch this ‘time of day’ thing though. It really has been true for me.
Runnergirl. Thank you – I AM committed to NC. I did have a dream about him last night though, in which he was very good to me, and when I woke up, I had a thought that after a few weeks of NC, maybe we *could* become friends. It’s weird what dreams can do to your feelings and thoughts when you first wake up. Anyway, I went on BR and read some of the posts here, including this one of yours. I cannot be friends with him because he has disrespected and hurt me and will continue to do so if we are “friends”. Plus, he is MARRIED. We must keep the door shut and “stay away from the poo”. These guys are not going to spontaneously combust into anything that smells like roses or looks like anything that can give us a happy future. Dog sh*t by any other name would smell as rank! Thank you so much for that! Bring on day 6 of NC.
Btw, for how long have you been NC with YOUR exMM?
Hey Learner,
Careful with that “dreaming” girl. Dreaming and a host of other baggage is what kept me hooked. Natalie’s Dreamer book finally helped me to see how much I was dreaming while “awake”. Next week will be a solid year of committed NC. We’ve attended a few work related events (not together) but I was never, ever going back to the OW darkness, so his attempts to hit the reset button failed. I spent the prior 7 months flogging the three legged donkey, slipping off the NC wagon (thus the term faux NC). I fell for the “time of day” phenomenon Natalie describes everysinglestupid time and I played the “time of day” card as well. By the end, I got exhausted mostly of myself.
May I suggest that thinking about being friends with a married man after being his mistress and being friends with a married man who has another mistress sounds like the bargaining stage within the grief process? Rationally, it’s a recipe for more pain and darkness. I dunno know, is being a friend a downgrade from mistress?
You sound committed to NC and strong. Congratulations.
PS. I refer to him as THE exMM. He was never mine in the first place cos he’s MARRIED.
xxoo
Runnergirl,
Try learning the lesson at 64… makes you feel even more of a moron.
Blossomtree.
I guess I just wasn’t ready to hear this lesson until I was 53. It’s better a bit late than never, right?
They’re not wired up to some Relationship Air Traffic Control Centre that lets them know when they can home in on you – they only know how you’re actually going to react when you react.
When I received the text it was to gauge my reaction to how receptive I would be to the follow up phone call.
It wasn’t to see how I was it was because he was now alone his relationship ended and the potential new relationship he was promised once she was over her ex had also gone, So no he wasn’t wired up to some Relationship Air Traffic Control Centre he was going on past information he had about me and seeing what is chances were because all of a sudden I have become a person of substance I am a friend worth having and even though I turned up with the same qualities in the beginning it is only now on reflection he can appreciate them.
I’m really trying to break some terrible relationship habits I have… always going for emotionally unavailable types, falling into casual relationships but wanting more, it’s like a drug addiction, you get high when they throw one crumb of attention your way then you’re on a downer when they don’t call or worse still you see them with others but can’t say anything because “we weren’t exclusive” or “I didn’t promise you anything” the last time I saw the guy I’ve been dating who was of this ilk, I ended up slapping him across the face. Cursed myself today when I sent him a message to apologise, but when he responded we’d “have a chance to talk it over” without arranging a specific time or seeming particularily bothered I replied “we haven’t got much more to say to each other” and am now determined to walk away with the last shred of dignity I have left. One thing makes me happy, I’m only 25 and I’ve already had two shitty relationships like this, teaching me a lot about how the game works!
Tatty,
Why don’t you wait for a commitment before sleeping with these guys? This will help eliminate some heartache.
I couldn’t believe my eyes when I saw your post today, Natalie! It really couldn’t have come at a better time. Why? Because, last night, at 1.20, as I was asleep and dreaming, I received a text from my ex EUM simply asking me; “ARE YOU SLEEPING?” After a month of NC and after I told him that I want to move on and to not get in touch with me again pls (we were almost 3 years together and I’m still deeply in love with him but I finally woke up and decided to go to a healthier place) he ignored that and he texted me! He also checks out my profile frequently in a site we are both members. Why doesn’t he leave me alone, when I know for a fact that he doesn’t love me, doesn’t respect me, doesn’t want a relationship with me?? Why?? To hurt me more? Apparently, no one from his many girlfriends could make it last night and he remembered ME! Or he thought I couldn’t do the NC thing with him that long and that surprised him and wanted to see if the door is still open for him. WELL IT’S CLOSED, MAN. And it was time to do that! After so many humiliations (the cheating, the unanswered txts, the silent treatment, the lies and arrogance) and so much hurt, so many tears, it is time to close the door for good. I gave him love. I gave him my self, everything. And he treated me poorly. Now, what does he want from me??
Alice,
He could want some sex, some attention, a shoulder to cry on etc… It doesn’t really matter, as you know he is not good for YOU!
I suggest you block his number and remove yourself from that site, then you will not be distracted by his nothing texts.
I’m assuming he cheated?
@Lawrence
I agree that NC can be abused in some circumstances. How nany of us have had the pleasure of being “disappeared” on? However, in an AC/EUM situation, these folks are unable or refuse to get it. They do not or refuse to understand that they have caused you hurt because to acknowledge would mean owning their behavior. I immediately began NC with my at work AC and he did ask me why I was upset. As this occurred in a public place where it was not appropriate to discuss the issue, I wrote him a very clear and concise letter relating my take on the situation No blaming, no drama, but a lot of “the if you had been in this situation, how would you feel?”. No response. He still inserts himself on committees that I am on, thinks he is going to be my mentor for promotion, wonders why he is not invited to gatherings at his home, why I don’t institute the social gatherings after work anymore. He refuses to either accept that he has caused great hurt or he is incredibly clueless. All I and many other women can do is NC.
Giving them the time of day is exactly what it is. While out with friends, I ran into the guy who blocked his number while calling me to confirm a date he had set up with me from his work number, prompting me not to go out with him, sent an email telling him why to which he never replied. Well we didnt speak to each other but a few days later I get a linkedin request from him…what?! Why would I accept someone on my professional networking page who wouldnt even give me his personal phone number even though he was trying to date me? These guys have balls the size of Texas. Before BR, I would have accepted him, not anymore. I’ve given too many AC’s the time of day after I’ve been well shot of only to be trampled again. That. Is. On. Me…..Not. Anymore!
Speaking of booty calls, I´m finding it really hard to keep my libido in check. It makes a lot of sense for me to take things slow in dating before becoming intimate but the truth is I haven´t had proper sex in years, so this is hard.
Thursday I had a blind date with a guy, everything went nice and he kissed wonderfully so afterwards I could not stop thinking about going to bed with him. But then he called me the next day to see if I wanted to get together at about 3pm – which I declined because a) I had things to do, b) it sounded like Booty Call Time. I said I had some time to see him on saturday but he said Nah, I have my kids this weekend, see you during the week.
Now I´m figuring:
-that was just an excuse, he had mentioned he had his kids over the previous weekend
-he probably just had a date with someone else
-I don´t want to be treated like the no-strings-attached-sex-option
-because I can really picture myself having a relationship with the dude!
So, ladies, what do I do with myself in this situation? Do I have to take cold showers to maintain my boundaries? Do I have sex with someone I´m not very attracted to so I can act coy with the ones I really want??
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
Hi Lilia,
First, why did his asking to meet at 3 pm seem like a booty call? If they wanted to meet at 3 AM I’d be more suspicious. Calling and wanting to meet you again the very next day after a blind date does seem a little hasty, though.
Next, whoa … you can see yourself having *a relationship* with this dude? Don’t you mean you can picture yourself sleeping with him? These are two totally different things!
Then – I guess cold showers are an option. Of course don’t go using guys you don’t really like; one-night-stands are a possibility if you can handle them and everyone knows what the expectations are (i.e. none), but if you’re asking this question it doesn’t sound like that is you.
Why is it so hard to keep your clothes on? You say you haven’t had proper sex in six years – does that mean you’ve been celibate, and not dating; or having bad sex? If simply finding a man attractive means you feel like you can’t control whether you hop into bed with him, I’d work on that by going very slowly in the dating arena.
I too used to drop my panties, practically, for any guy who offered me a stick of gum; any male attention used to unsettle me so much I’d immediately try to cut the tension by getting physical. That way lies heartache. Now I haven’t had any sex in two years and haven’t ever had sex with a man I loved/who loved me. But I still had to learn what my boundaries are by dating and moving slowly. Any guy who pushes for more than you want to give is a flush (I didn’t know this, I always allowed myself to feel guilty for ‘frustrating’ them).
The last physicality I had was with a very cute guy with three kids; we went out five times and only made out with clothes on each time. He got bored; I could tell; I called it off. I’m glad I got to experience that; it was exciting, very exciting, and I often pictured sleeping with him on the first couple of dates; by the fifth I saw that once he realized I was taking my time, his interest cooled way off. If I’d slept with him when my va-jay-jay or imagination suggested, I might have ended up in another half-assed pseudo-relationship for months!
Magnolia:
Well, it sounded like a booty call because he actually suggested we go to a motel – forgot to mention that.
And yes I guess you´re right about me picturing myself sleeping with him, more than having a relationship. So I´m a bit afraid I´ll end up hurt if it doesn´t evolve into something lasting – I mean I´d hate to get all carried away, sleep with him once or twice and then discover he gets bored and doesn´t want to see me again or whatever. Fear of rejection, probably.
As for my celibacy, it´s been 3 years, not 6. I guess I became a bit unavailable the first year after my unexpected divorce (husband told me he wanted to leave me right after we had been having great sex, didn´t tell me he was having an affair at the same time). Then, I became involved with this weirdo who prefered cybersex to anything real. So this is the first time I´m opening myself up to dating again.
Thanks for mentioning about the tension, good point! I´ll try to work on that instead of jumping head over heels in bed with someone I don´t know yet.
lilia-
yes, like teddie says, perhaps the temporary answer lies in…drum roll…self-gratification. think of it as a little gift you give yourself, to satisfy yourself, to keep yourself safe, to break all kinds of tension so you don’t have to feel driven by the need for sex. its not the same thing as intimacy with another human, but you are making good choices about which humans you’d like to get intimate with, and caring for yourself in this other way will probably help that.
also- i’m so very sorry about your marriage, what a terrible, awful, painful experience. so, good, good, GOOD for you that you’re taking excellent care of yourself now.
hugs
Lilia
When I first started seeing the exMM, I had known him for a year through work, and I also imagined sleeping with him as I was so strongly attracted to him. I never thought it would actually happen, but it did. I figured it was a one-off, and we would just go back to our previous work-friends relationship since he was married. That never happened. I fell in love, he strung me along, and I had 3 years of an emotional roller coaster from hell. Please don’t jump in bed with this man. If he is not available on the weekend, I would also suspect he has someone else on the go. Not that I’m an expert on any of this, just wanted to add my thoughts 🙂
Eva Longoria swears upon Pocket Rocket. Certainly preferable to some AC’s pisser!
Teddie – I have never heard the term “pisser” before. Made me laugh out loud!
Random question for anyone who would like to answer: is it breaking NC if one were to think about an exAC while using said Pocket Rocket? That way you are not giving THEM the time of day….. sorry, just curious what anyone thought.
learner-
no, thinking about someone doesn’t break NC. thinking about them too much is not good, however. and why you’d want to think about them at that moment – actually, what am i saying, i have done that!
as long as it makes you, uh, happy, i say knock yourself out. i just wouldn’t allow myself to dwell on them too much, i have enough well-documented trouble getting him out of my head as it is.
Yes, LOL for “pisser”!!
As for using the Pocket Rocket thinking of the exAC – hm I don´t think that´s a good option, it´s like keeping yourself available to him in your mind. It would be hard to move on if you still have feelings and sensations associated to him – even if they are actually the Pocket Rocket´s merit. Try to think of someone else instead – Beckham? Lenny Kravitz? Personally, I think Dwayne Johnson is an interesting alternative.
Cc and Lilia
OK, points taken. Maybe after a while it will just become “old” to think about him anyway. I suppose there are others to dream about, hmmm 🙂
learner-
for your consideration:
– ryan reynolds
– common
– josh duhamel
– that guy who played ‘thor’ – chris hemsworth? (omfg….)
Lillia, I understand you honey….I slept with my AC number 2 on the second date ( how embarrassing, I never done that) because I wanted to forget AC number 1…OK it helped me and I don’t care what he does and who he is dating, but now I became addicted to AC number 2:-( SO please don’t rush, give yourself more time, I was there and regret now. All the best x
This whole post makes me think of the oldie by Billy Joel: My life 🙂
“I don’t care what you say anymore, this is my life
Go ahead with your own life, leave me alone”
Maybe I could just post the link as a reply to each one of the Ghosts of Christmas Past who feel to drop a line or a call …wink
LOL this reminds me of a comment I made a while ago!
Thank you so much Allison, Snowboard and Yoghurt…You are right that I must leave him, but it is hard, I have difficulties to feel in love with someone…So when I met the person of my adoration I became like a drug addict:-( He was honest with me in the beginning by saying he recently divorced and wasn’t looking for long term, but he said: “Lets see how it goes” I never really hurt him (except throwing him out with “never contact me again” – I already mentioned this in one of my posts)…I am actually grateful to him, as he helped me to forget my AC number 1! I will talk to him for the last time and give me the ultimatum, if he cant be with me, I will let him go……………..
HS
I hate saying this (I hated reading it when I was in the same situation!) but if he wanted to be with you he would be.
I think that the danger of giving an ultimatum is that he’ll fudge things over, give you a lot of stuff that sounds nice and makes you feel pleasant and maybe even sounds like he DOES want a relationship, but then carry on treating you moreorless in the same way. And then you’ll end up feeling more confused, jealous, upset and angry. And be in the same mess.
If you find it difficult to fall in love easily (which I get – I’m the same) I’d ask yourself the following questions:
– what does a person need to have/be in order for you to fall in love with them?
– what do all of the people that you’ve fallen in love with have in common?
– of the people that you’ve fallen in love with, why haven’t your relationships with them worked out?
See if you can see any patterns.
Good luck, though, I know it’s a really difficult situation to be in.
Yoghurt thank you… I need to ask myself these questions. I think the reason I feel in love with these guys due to chemistry and sexual attraction. I know I should change my pattern, I have “the type” and it is clearly not working! What a great advice you gave me, I have to share with my best friend, and maybe we will eventually learn something?!
Thanks ladies – Yes, “Kicking him out” is better! And YES, he always said “I pride myself on being a man of integrity”… and that he “struggles with” the affair. He also says he’s so “checked out” of his 16 year marriage, his wife “doesn’t have my back”, and “if it weren’t for the kids, I’d be gone”.
Day 2 NC. Trying to stay focused on my work and remember this is the best decision I am making for my self worth.
It helps so much to read everyone’s stories here.
Thank you Natalie – for opening up this forum, your amazing posts, and being our inspiration to the path of higher self-esteem.
Sending hugs from California, US.
Christine
Sounds like this guy has a copy of “How To Be A Complete Hypocrite And Get Away With It” manual. He’s learned it off by heart. Or maybe he wrote the book. He only knows he’s getting away with it when the women he hits on give him the time of day. Let him know you’re smarter than to be taken in by this crap; don’t give him any more of your time or energy. He is already married – you are not. So this is NOT a good deal for you. D’you think if the shoe was on the other foot, if he was single, he’d be sitting around on the sidelines while you got on with your married life with husband and two children? I don’t fink so!!
Christine,
YES, kick him to the curb. Preferably the curb where he lives with his wife and children. As a former OW, I heard and believed all the things your exMM said. It’s the standard line. What’s a MM going to tell their mistress? That the wife is great in bed, they have a wonderful relationship, and are soulmates? Swear to honest god, the exMM told me he was a man of integrity, while cheating on his wife and kids. Worse, I believed him because I had to in order to deceive myself! You are doing the right thing even though it may feel awful now. Don’t give him the time of day from this day forward or one of my fav Nat sayings: Don’t give him the steam off your piss. Did I get that right? My yank friends love the Brit sayings I’ve adopted but I sometimes get them wrong. I don’t mean to miss quote you Natalie.
Hugs back from So Cal. Stay strong.
CM-
good for you, stay focused. keep reminding yourself that your focus depends on your recalibration of your moralsðics&values goggles. keep recalibrating those goggles.
i know its not the same thing, but part of my having a hard time letting go of my ex-EUM is that i would (still do, to some extent) have arguments with him in my head – why would i even bother to do this? i guess i never felt fully justified in my point of view, didn’t completely stick up for myself. to move on from him, you must completely stick up for yourself in your own head, you must be 100% on your own side in order to not waiver.
cases in point:
1
HIM: “wife “doesn’t have my back””
YOU: so you solve that by screwing someone else behind hers? and you feel even partly justified in doing so? douchebag!
2
HIM: “I pride myself on being a man of integrity” OR ““struggles with” the affair”
YOU: o.O? fffffuuuuuuuuuuuuuck yooOOOOOOOOOUUUUUUU!!
translation: god, i am worth so much more than a morally compromised lothario who can’t properly treat the mother of his own children and who is only intent on feeding his own worthless ego. what a piece of crap. i am (britishism) well shot of him.
vulgar? perhaps. but you hopefully catch my drift.
hang in there. you can do it.
PS – Be sure to show the wife the parting email he wrote you.
Man, she will be waiting for him at home with the rolling pin when she reads that.
I know I would be – I’m with Fearless, completely; the guy’s a patronising ass.
Ethelreda,
That’s the word – they are so utterly patronising. What with all their shite about integrity and the terrible wife they manage to just about tolerate (cos they are so giving and patient and endowed with such high principles) and the oh, woe is me, oh, woe is me, so is there any chance of a shag then?
Ethelreda and Fearless – Yes!
My exMM said he had not left his “cold, disresectful wife” partly because he wanted to protect his reputation, and didn’t want to disappoint his father. I wonder what his dad woulda thought if he knew about the mistresses he had?
And also – “woe is me” – I heard “I work all day, helping others, doing more than my fair share, never thinking of my own needs, then I come home and I have to make dinner and clean up because my wife and son are so lazy.” and “my feet hurt, my back hurts, I am exhausted, I need a nap.” How did I feel sorry for this man? And you are right, he did use all this as justification for seeking other “outlets” for his “sexual frustration”. I just realize, I haven’t heard any of this complaining for 6 days now, and it is such a relief. I feel sorry for his wife. What a whiner! Sorry exMM, no more “time of day” from me.
“The type of person who does this in dating and relationships, can also sometimes be like a persistent battering ram that loves a challenge – they may try again but aiming lower via a charm offensive, to see if you’re ‘really’ who you are.”
———————————-
Yes, and some of them are very sly. Be forewarned and don’t assume/believe everything until some time bears them out!! The one guy I dated briefly had tried a fairly direct sexual approach by the end of our 3rd date and I did not “bite” at that time. (And for various life reasons – serious close family medical problems I had to attend to, I stopped dating him after about 3 dates.) Well, we kind of stayed in touch via Facebook and when he came back, he totally poured on the charm offensive – good description – and I ate it up. Yes, he ultimately just wanted sex, sex, sex and someone to pub hop with and would say anything to get me into bed with him – ’til he was ready to move on and have sex with someone else on his long list of admirers. If he called me with a suggestive remark I’d have no hesitation telling him where to go and what to do. What an ass.
Reading above the guy that wanted to meet at a motel for a second date – wow!!! Seriously.
Thank you, Natalie, Your posts are amazing! I was extremely guilty of having a revolving door with my EUM. I followed your advice to the letter and am not that girl anymore. It went on for years and finally gave MYSELF the ultamatum that the very next time he treated me like crap I was gone. Its been six months since I decided this and I have not felt better. Despite several lame efforts on his part to resume where he left off, when he tried the revolving door it was now a steel one! Kinda like a bank vault! I see and hear everything more clearly, the poor me, the victim, the crumbs. The jig is up,the look of total surprise on his face when he enters what he thinks is his very own revolving door, he is in such a spin, hat it spits him back onto the kerb!!! Thank you Natalie and the rest of the girls and guys on BR.
This, as usual, is a great post.
My own experience is waaayyyy too long to go into here, but it’s the typical chase, get me hooked so I chase, him sitting back and letting me continue chasing because of crumbs, dangling hope, etc. all the while living with a woman he’s been in a back and forth/rocky relationship for 10 years. Married/divorced twice, six kids, all rocky relationships.
Anyway, he lives in my hometown. 8 months of this bulls**t with him, on the last day I saw him he had the nerve to ask me for my phone number. I did not give it to him and walked away clean. Pissed?? Yeah, I was. Hurt?? Yeah, that too. I did something really dumb, though, about two months ago. I was on my bike, found out where he lived, then one other time, ONLY one other time, I went back on foot and he recognize me. My worry is that all his insults on my character, the way I conduct my life, the sleazy comments, trash talking, that I almost bought into….since he saw me there my actions are going to confirm what he thought of me, even though none of it’s true. Although I guess another way to see this is that….he knows where I live (another dumb decision on my part, though when I gave him my address about 6 months ago I truly didn’t think he was stupid enough to use it….he did. I thought he was just blowing smoke out his butt. I apparently didn’t know him as well as I thought. lol. Thankfully nothing physical ever happened), and so if he tries anything else that’s shady, he now knows that I know where he lives and hopefully it scared him into staying away. I don’t know what to think of the whole thing. I’ve not, and never will again, gone up there for ‘reconn’ missions. lol Still, I don’t want this to validate his opinion of me, though 1. I shouldn’t care about some cheating jerk’s opinion of me, regardless of the crush I initially had on him (and he used against me…crumbs, etc), and 2. the half-jake really doesn’t deserve any more time in my head.
My experience is much much longer than I can explain here. I guess I just wondered if any of you other strong ladies experienced this sort of ‘relapse’. It is just like going through withdrawal and wanting that ‘fix’. Once you get that fix, you feel good for a while but then when you come down, reality hits you again. That’s when the worrying about what he thinks of me finding…
I only WISH I HAD given my ex AC the time of day when he last tried to contact me. He was reaching out for help but I didn’t realise it at the time as of course that’s not what he said. What he said (in an email – he was interstate & couldnt call me as I’d changed my phone number’) was could I please call him se we could have the closure conversation we ‘both needed to have’. It’s true. There was no closure conversation. When I spoke to the mother of his child by phone interstate & she told me he’d been with HER similtaeous to me the whole time he was with me I HIT THE ROOF & instead sent numerous emails in which I was incandescent with RAGE & then went NC. I knew that the Mother of his child had to be exaggerating somewhat because they’d sold the house & he DID move into TWO consecutive places of his own. Still in essense, I BELIEVED her. After learning this week he died only HOURS after last trying to contact me I spoke with his sister this week & learned indeed the Mother of his child had been GROSSLY exaggerating. But now it’s too late. I’m absolutely shattered & now it’s all too late because there’s nothing anyone can do to raise the dead :((
teachable-
wait – he passed away? oh, i’m so sorry.
but…ok, hold on.
first, when you didn’t respond to him, you were acting on the only information you had at the time, and that information justified you going NC. there is NO WAY you could have known that something as final as his leaving this plane of existence was going to happen. there is no way that you could have, at the time, interpreted “could I please call him se we could have the closure conversation we ‘both needed to have’” as a cry for help.
second, you’re assuming that you could have prevented his passing had you contacted him – that’s completely off base. you don’t say how he died, and i’m honestly afraid to ask -but if its what i think it is, you must not take on the burden of thinking you could have saved him. people who no longer want this life usually find a way to leave it. so, even if you had replied, he might have passed anyway.
if it wasn’t what i fear it was, none of us should ever stay in contact with someone, or respond to low-quality offers, on the basis that that person might suddenly, inexplicably, pass away. we are not responsible for others’ living or dying. and reacting as if we are is superstitious behavior and we should not engage in it.
of course this is a terrible shock. but – and i don’t mean to be disrespectful – his passing doesn’t change the fact that he wasn’t with you or making you happy. please don’t rewrite your own history on the basis of this admittedly awful outcome.
teachable, we are all mortal. i know how it must pani you, but when one’s time is up, its up. there’s nothing the living can do about that. i know what a terrible shock it is. but, please, do not blame yourself. there was nothing you could have done to change the outcome. again – you. did. nothing. wrong. truly.
please do accept my condolences.
teachable, I know that this isn’t quite the same but I think there might be similarities between this and your situation:
When I was about seven months pregnant, I moved house to (mostly – among other reasons) get away from the EUM, who by that point was adamant that he wanted to be a part of Son’s life but would only talk to me when he was drunk and needed support. I kept giving him that support, partly because I was high on relationship crack but also because I was genuinely worried about his mh and how well he was coping (but also sleeping with him = fail).
For about three weeks before I moved out he was coming round regularly and unloading on me – in fact the last time he tried was when I’d actually moved out. Then it all went quiet moreorless until the baby was born – I didn’t find out until a year later that about two weeks after I’d moved he’d attempted suicide and landed in hospital for a week.
Finding out about this absolutely flattened me for a bit – not least because I had the BIGGEST Flo Nightingale complex at the time, but also because it was the basis for his connection with his new gf and she’d helped him deal with it etc etc etc.
But anyway, with a bit of healthy thinking and a (fair old) while to recover from it all, these are the conclusions that I’ve reached:
1) Unhealthy is unhealthy. Ultimately I was never going to help him in any lasting or really useful sense because we were both unhealthy, and his unhealthiness was what was making him unhappy. I might’ve been able to distract him from that but I couldn’t heal him because while *I* was stuck in unhealthy behaviours I was part of the problem.
2) You Make The Choices That You Make, and you make them for a reason. I think that one of the issues with being a commitmentphobe (which we all are on here, to some degree) is that you’re scared of making the ‘wrong’ decision. But, equally, making no decision might be the wrong decision. You can only go on what you’ve got, and take your chances with the information that you’ve got – it’s part of living your life. The only thing that you’ve got any control over in any situation is yourself.
3) It Really Wasn’t Anything To Do With Me. No matter how much I’ve twisted the situation round in my head, I can’t take the blame or the credit for anything that he did or didn’t do. I have proof of this because really HE doesn’t see it as anything to do with me at all – in fact he was a bit bemused by the contortions of self-loathing and upset that I went through afterwards. As far as he’s concerned, HE made his decisions as a part of HIS life and the fallout was for HIM to deal with. It hurts my vanity that it’s so, but it is so.
I don’t know what happened to your AC – I’m reading that it was in some way self-inflicted but I might be misinterpreting, but I think that all of those principles might well hold firm whatever situation.
It’s natural to grieve him and you should let yourself, I think (after all he must’ve had some good qualities for you to feel so strongly about him) but don’t beat yourself up or re-think all of your decisions. You can’t know everything about everyone and their present/future (you’re not God) and you don’t have that much control over anyone else, either. You made a decision based on your responsibility to yourself and your son, and quite rightfully, imo.
Horrible situation, though (((teachable))). Look after yourself. x
yoghurt is wise and brave. and right.
to underscore those points: my 12-year relationship ended because he fell into a terrible years-long depression from which NONE of us could rescue him. i could not save him, and i started coming apart trying. so, i literally had to save myself. we cannot save anyone else, we can only point the way. you can throw a million life preservers to someone, but THEY have to grab on. and if they don’t, if they don’t choose to, they will take you down with them if you let them.
anyway. all hail yoghurt.
Hmmm, not sure about “all hail yoghurt” (although thankyou! 🙂 ). More like “all pity yoghurt as she falls apart for a bit” and then “all avoid yoghurt while she’s a bitter smoking vessel of rage” and then “all bear with yoghurt while she whines a lot about how unfair life is”. It took a good number of months before I’d come to terms with that one.
Although I don’t much like giving Son’s dad credit he did try to be useful and supportive (in a very cautious we’re-not-close! sort of a way) while I was close to cracking up over it, and probably did help me to understand it properly. I’ve been unusually lucky in that, I think, as unpleasant as it is in some ways.
You’re right, though, I don’t think that you CAN give people the help that they need when they’re EU unless you’re emotionally uninvested – that’s the tragedy of mh issues and the reason that therapists get paid. If you’re expecting ANY emotional return for ‘helping’ someone and acting as their free armchair psychologist then you’re running a very high risk that the situation will get worse and they’ll end up cynically using you. That’s bad for them as well as for you.
It’s braver and kinder and FAIRER TO THEM to go NC – it’s the best chance that you can give them to get out of unhealthy relating patterns and sort themselves out. What they do after that is up to them, though, and sadly, you can’t force them to recover 🙁
Well that didn’t last long. I texted him late last night – “are you there?”
I knew he was sleeping. I got a text first thing this morning:
“I was alseep, but in your corner,whether we chat or not.”
I’m not replying.
I had a moment of weakness last night, and feel awful for reaching out to him.
So I guess tomorrow will make day 1 NC. I’m going to continue reading BR and all your supportful comments.
God, can I do this?
A text isn’t reaching out, it’s a text. And what he said back to you doesn’t count for much, it being a text too. It doesn’t qualify as breaking NC – a couple of texts do not qualify as contact. Pay it no heed.
As for him being in your corner – this is all so convenient for him,. He gets to jerk you around via text, it’s unreal. I participated in one of these text fantasy non-relationships with a MM for six months. The sooner you nuke him the sooner you can get on with your life.
Can you do this? Muster your self-respect and you find that you can.
He really is not that special. At all.
Yes Christine you can. You are going to have some weak moments, we all have, but forgive yourself and move on. Its just a text thats all.
Christine
So what are you, a chat buddy? You hoping to get an upgrade from chat buddy to… what exactly? Not much to pin your hopes and your future on, is it?
It’s not him who needs to be in your corner (pftt!) it’s you.
christine-
i’ll join the ‘yes you can’ chorus. because, yes. you can.
as grace says, its just a text. i’m not sure i agree that that qualifies as NOT breaking NC (sorry, grace, i know you were trying to throw her a bone), but on the ‘reaching out’ scale, its the least significant form of contact there is. and his reply is worthless. ok, so maybe he feels guilty and is trying to be nice, but that’s meaningless, and as grace says easy and convenient for him, and who cares anyway. that’s like saying the guy waterboarding you had a moment of mercy and is a good enough person to question his life of administering torture – sorry, not good enough.
so, yes, forgive yourself and let it go, having texted him is not important. BUT you need to recommit to NC. for real. for serious. don’t substitute another high for the one you stopped.
we get addicted, truly neurochemically addicted, to the roller coaster, to what happens in our brains when we have this kind of drama, this kind of rush. and breaking that addiction is VERY hard. you have to go cold turkey. and it will suck. and if you want to really break with this guy and find something better for yourself, you have to let it suck and just live through it.
but you can do it.
Christine, there are great free online courses, hey, you can get a new degree here: https://www.coursera.org/! How’s your French, by the way? Some brush-up needed? Arabic is a great language too! I’ve benefited a great deal from reading Psychology Today online as well, there are hundreds of blogs there on every topic imaginable.
Look, all I’m trying to say is this: put your mind elsewhere! Anything is better than keeping your mind on what has been a barely there-thing anyway, and reaching out for crumbs!
Christine, as time goes on you will gain more and more perspective and it will get easier. For me the penny has finally dropped and I cannot believe how easily I was duped! The b…..d used me for sex, ego strokes and my research ideas. He was abusive, passive aggressive, manipulative and I thought he (at least) liked me! At this moment I feel a mixture of anger at my stupidity, humiliation and shame. What the bl–dy hell was I thinking! Now what do I do with all these feelings?
Christine, Someone said this to me when I was struggling to let go of a bad relationship: but there’s now space for new things, you’re lucky! This made sense to me, cognitively, but very little, emotionally. But, in this, we have to trust our minds, and the minds of those who’ve been through it, even if we don’t FEEL like we can or FEEL like we want to. The heart catches up, and, it catches up quicker if you do the hard yards and get on with filling that space with new things: friends, hobbies, silence (meditation!). Then, when it does catch up, you’ll be amazed and so grateful that you did this. Grieve, be angry, be scared or whatever, but don’t follow those feelings.
Elle,
Well said. So true.
Yes you can do it Christine. I agree with Grace and everything she has said. He is NOT in your corner, rather he is cowering in his own corner, and the text amounted to 11 words! None of the words seemed caring in context, “whether we chat or NOT”! It reeks of a jerk face man who only wants his needs met on his time. You deserve so much more than that and definately need to stay strong and start NC. You will be amazed how strong you can become when you don’t have to deal with someone who continually makes you feel ‘less than’. take care.
I will say this though. Even though my exAC is now dead, on the other hand I DON’T regret going NC – because in essence he was in the process of slowly ‘taking me down with him’ so to speak. For the sake of myself & my Son I couldn’t let that happen. I got out & saved myself in just the nick of time 11th hour. He went under the (metaphorical) train so to speak which I’d seen coming & been desperately trying warn him about. As I lay tonight through another sleepless evening the illusions that he was the ‘love of my life’ have evaporated, replaced instead by reality. Although he was indeed very ill with various ‘issues’ the fact is this man was an ABSOLUTE PRICK to me over & over again from the moment he re-entered my life 3 & 1/2 yrs ago. I wish he’d never come back at all in fact as then at least I’d have fond memories of him when we were first a cpl 20 yrs ago instead memories of the emotional abuse he put me through this time. Of course I’m deeply saddened he’s dead, for who would wish that on anyone? But still, at least I no longer have to worry about be abused by him ever again. A sad way of seeing things – but essentially they are the facts.
Grace, the person who SENT the text has broken NC. The text receiver only breaks NC if they reply. NC is a pretty simple concept. It means what it says. No. contact. As in. No emailing. No phoning. No texting. No visiting the person. Etc.. 🙂
Ok I’m making a new committment to myself. Ever since learning earlier this week that my ex AC had died his ‘ghost’ of has been haunting my house at all hours of the day & night (I kid you not!) So, that I’ve had a ‘polite chat’ with with his ‘ghost’ telling him that although I’m very sad he died & once loved him very much that he treated me very badly the past few yrs & so needs to jog on because it’s too late to come to me now’ I’m committing to no longer giving his ‘ghost’ the time of day! Can you believe the cheek of these men! Even in death they continue to plague us! Ugh!
teachable-
ok, your last few posts are where its at – good for you. glad you’re feeling better about it.
and – going NC on a ghost – now i think i’ve heard everything.
big hugs
This goes to show that ACs just don´t change – ever. Not even when they pass on and become ghosts.
Hi Teachable,
I’m truly sorry for this turn of events and for the pain it’s caused you and the other people in his life. You are right, you can be sad for his passing. It sounds like you have clarity with regards to how badly he treated you and are committed to not giving his ghost the time of day. That is brilliant. Based on your previous post, you could see there were some serious issues and got out. Good for you. I am sorry though. Take care of you and your son.
I agree – I broke NC by contacting him, if only on a text.
I have still not replied and have therapy in an hour, so that’s a good day!
Want to know what’s ironic? I write all about how far I’ve come (and never deny the fact, I’ve a long way to go) on my blog.
In a nutshell:
-father abandonment at 2
-raped at 13
-life of drugs (recovering now – but started at 13)
-abusive relationships
– nude stripper (1987-1996)
20 years later – and I’m still picking the wrong men.
Therapy – and sites like this – and your awesome comments are helping.
It’s up to ME to stay on track and BELIEVE I am worth so much more.
I agree this is like a drug. The withdrawls are maddening right now.
exMM and I may have been LD, but it was an intense emotional affair. constant phone conversations/sex, and texts all day long. He doted on me, much like a father would – shocker that’s what I was drawn to.
He used to say things like:
“I know you are growing, and healing, and there will be a day when I have to let you go, because you deserve so much better – and you will get there. I’m your biggest fan, and you are my favorite person…”
I believe he knows my weaknesses (knows my whole story) and, knowingly or not, uses that to his advantage.
Why can’t I get angry? I can’t stop looking at my phone.
Ugh.
Hi Christine,
I’m out of my depth here, but I’m going to give a try to answering your question.
It sounds like you understand intellectually that you go for the father figure vibe and there’s there’s something off about that, but the part of you inside that wants the caring, ‘doting’ father figure doesn’t give a crap, because she thinks she was getting what she never had. I FEEL you, sister.
My exAC was 12 years older than me and in so many ways was a more effective adult, and more attentive man, than my father was, is or ever will be. Kicking ACs arse to the curb did not stop me wanting the daddy-love (which I confused with his rich-old-man attention). God, it was eviscerating to pull away from the drug he was feeding my childhood hurt.
Hard to get mad at the person who represents an imaginary there-for-you father. The longing and need comes before the anger.
It was only in the self-love after the exAC and some real determination to get over his ass that I realized that my whole life I have blended my fantasies of a father coming and comforting me with finding a sexual partner. I can’t tell you how often I imagined being in someone’s arms in bed and having them comfort me; hell, I even played that scenario out with the AC, but just casting someone with a warm body and deep voice in the starring role of your magical healing scene is no cure.
I started visualizing a guy “like my brother” in my bed. What a turnoff! Who wants a kid in their bed, some jerk-off kid? But I did it because I realized I felt most men my age were just regular kids. None of them really measured up to the powerful man fantasy. But as I’ve continued to try to cast “real” guys in my dreams, I’ve gotten better at separating the daddy-longing from the desire to date and the desire to have a male partner.
It’s like changing your taste entirely. But until I did the fantasy recasting I absolutely couldn’t see that some of the ‘regular’ guys around me, who clearly have their own doubts and fears and weren’t supermen, and who wouldn’t make good rescuers, can actually embody the maturity, support and constancy that I (the adult Magnolia) actually want.
I was mistaking power, age, money etc for all that before. I can now look for and recognize the values in men that I need as an adult; and do separately my work on the hole where my father’s love…
CM
Have you read Nat’s Dreamer book. Yes he is a real person you met in real life, but long-distance, married, reliance on virtual communication, the overvaluing of texts (yes, I do get that it breaks NC but it’s just a text, it means as much or as little as you want it to) are fertile ground for your fantasies to run riot. Even phone calls don’t count for much if the face-to-face is limited. You look to him to save you but no third party can do that (unless you believe in God). You say it was an intense emotional affair as if that’s valuable. It’s not. If it was so great, you’d have been happy. He did not dote on you and, even if he did, that ‘s not what a mutual relationship is about. Doting, intensity, chemistry, flattery, compliments, excitement, his amateur psychoanalysis – meaningless fluff compared to the real thing. It’s not a question of degree. It’s a completely different country.
You think that your past has stamped you out for mistreatment (yes, like a sign on your forehead). That you deserve less than others. Not true. Someone you trust, who is yours alone, you can have that.
It IS scary when you realise that everything you thought is wrong. The things you valued are worthless. You want to cling to them but there’s nothing to hold onto. Believe there is better. Start by doing the right thing. Nuke him. That can never be the wrong thing to do or the wrong decision or something you will regret. He is married. You are simply waiting for a married man to text you. If it’s that bad, chuck out your sim card and change your no.
Everyone asks, how do I get self esteem? How do I heal? It doesn’t just come out of the blue while we continue our bad habits and constantly feed ourselves lies. Start by doing the right thing. If it came that easily, we would lose it just as quickly. It’s what you work and fight for that counts. That you can keep. The quick fixes – sex, attention, validation – they fall through your fingers before you can even close your hand.
Well said, Grace.
Eloquently put, Grace! Very motivating.
Thank you for sharing your experience, strength, and hope Grace. How do ‘they’ say it ?–“This is my story; this is my song.”
I feel so very grateful and moved to know this truth.
Blessings on to you~~~~~~~~~~~:)
Good luck with the therapy, Christine. I hope you come to see that this man is not helping you ‘heal and grow’ – he is actively and knowingly preventing it; it’s not in his interests for you to ‘heal and grow’ – he’s been getting too much fun out of you. If he was your ‘biggest fan’ he’d have left you alone/paid for your therapist/stopped using you as a dial-a-lay… and the rest. Just hearing the contradictory manipulative crap he spouts makes me angry on your behalf. Good luck.
cm-
here comes the no-so-amateur psychologist.
why? ….because he was a father figure. and while he may SUCK because he’s a MM, he may still be the best father figure you’ve ever had.
so, maybe approach it a different way. maybe anger isn’t the way to go. maybe he served a purpose, a role, and maybe you let him occupy the place he had in your life, let that place recede into your past, and keep moving on with all the elements of your recovery and healing. maybe you have gotten there, to that place where its time to let him go. and maybe, since he did serve something of a (relative to your history) constructive purpose, you are thankful for that part of it, but you still need to let him go because the rest of it, the unhealthy parts, are really unhealthy. and you don’t need them anymore.
this way, can you move on with more compassion, less drama, less grief?
might that work?
Christine, you may find the following forum useful as well:
http://loveaddictionforum.proboards.com
It´s for people who keep choosing the wrong partner to remedy the past, and has a lot of info on how to build your self esteem and learn to take care of yourself – sort of be your own mother/father figure. There´s also a lot of advice on NC and withdrawals.
Lilia
I tried the forty questions to determine if you are a ‘love addict’. Am glad to say my answer to most was ‘No’ and to a good handful of others was ‘Not any more!’ Yay.
Christine – to add to Lilia’s suggestion, I just read the book “How to Break your Addiction to a Person” by Howard Halpern, on the advice of my one friend who knows the entire exMM saga. Excellent read, and so applicable to our situations 🙂
Another recommendation: “Facing Love Addiction” by Pia Mellody. And also, Shanton Peel’s blog on Psychology Today, he is one of the greatest capacities on addictions in general.
Christine,
All the others have offered such fabulous insights, the only thing I’d like to add is a comment regarding staring at the phone. For two years during the affair and then months after NC, I did it too. At one point, I couldn’t take a 20 minute shower without getting out to stare at the phone. If you search the archives, Natalie has a post about “staring at the decision”. It will pass with time and effort. Now, the only reason I keep my land-line is to locate my cell. It used to be glued to my eye-balls. My comments don’t hold a candle to the others. However, BR helped me to realize, the reason MM’s rely on constant crumb texts or phone calls is because they have a wife and a real life. As an OW, I had a virtual life.
He does know you and he is using that to his advantage. Get Natalie’s books and you’ll be shocked at how well he knows you and maybe angry at how he’s been using you. As Natalie says in the post: “… they only know how you’re actually going to react when you react. Yes you might do what you normally do, but equally you could turn around and tell them to jog on”.
One more thing and then I’ll stop, promise. Grace’s response with regards to your description of an “intense emotional affair” really gave me pause. Grace said so elegantly and simply: “It’s not. If it was so great, you’d have been happy”. So simple, so true. When I hear the description intense, I think drama.
Hang in there Christine. You’ve had a traumatic childhood. I did to and my picker was broken and it still may be. We aren’t our past. Sorry to sound like a reformer smoker. Hugs. There will be a day when you have to call your land-line to find your cell!
Cc yr first reply to me just brough a teat to my eye. Im still in shock. I told my sister how I really felt this morning. How BADLY he treated me. How his ‘ghost’ kept haunting my house. Here was here in the loungeroom while I was explaining it all her. He literally got up & walked out of the room as I explainto her that even in death, as sad as I feel about that, it was too late for himto come to me now looking for sympathy. He had AMPLE opportunity to sort things out between us while he was alive (although granted was preoccupied by his mother dying becoming ill & then finally dying only 6 mths before hen died) Still if he’d wanted to sort things out w us he would have moved heaven & earth to do that. He didnt. Instead he’d moved onto ‘new prey’. The real reason he got in touch with me is I think he’d used up all of his options elsewhere & he thought ‘good old teacable will still give me the time of day’. If he was wanting to try again to seek treatment for his issues (mental health & substance abuse) he could have quite easily done that w.out my assistance. I made certain he had all of the info he needed for both his state & mine BEFORE I went NC. So guess what. Teachable did NOT give him the time of day b.cuz I had to SAVE MYSELF before he TOOK ME DOWN WITH HIM. In hindsight I did the right thing. Im still incredibly sad though (& in deep shock)
PS It was an accidental death. Heart failure caused by drug use.
teachable-
aw, honey. some people can’t handle the truth, even when they’ve moved on to another dimension. well, now he knows. i find it interesting that he’s choosing you to haunt.
the shock and the sadness will fade. i know how hard it is, though. you have absolutely done the right things, though, and your head is in the right place, thank the blessed universe and all that is holy, because if it weren’t, you’d be in hell right now. but you’ll heal faster because you have your head on straight.
so, just like you learned not to in life, don’t take any crap from that ghost.
massive hugs. hang in there, it will be ok.
Christine
For what its worth the stand out commonality amoung women who make poor choices re partners is an absent (literally or emotionally) or abusive father figure. This is due to a lack to healthy proection & opposite sex modelling. When yr ready look at THAT in therapy. I personally believe that when we can learn to PARENT OURSELVES in a healthy way a flow on effect is improvements in our ‘people picker’. I wish you well. T x
… the hole where my father’s love should have been. Does that compute?
Christine – read Natalie’s dating reflections of your father and mother series. Very applicable it sounds like!
lilla. you are dead on. (pardon the pun) his ‘ghost’ put in a short appearance today. I just ignored him. Then another tonight (whilst Im writing this). again, not giving him the time of day. I told him everything i ever needed to say while he was alive. i warned him many times that his death was imminent if he did not seek immediate professional help for his problems. for 3 years he totally ignored my advice. he sought help in a halg hearted way at the end but did not stick it out. wot more could i do? i could not live his life him! he made his choices & sadly paid the price of his poor decisions. certainly his care factor for me was zero – despite his protests to the contrary his actions said others. I know he’s dead now but so too is his mum. go have a cuppa w yr mum R & jog on. my house if not the AC ghost rest home. thanks for that. cheers. lol
love to all whose support i appreciate a lot x
Its all good yoghurt. Everything you say makes complete & perfect sense (right down to my former Flo Nightingale complex. Thank goodness I retired her! Fine as a job but not what I want in a relationshit!!) Thankyou for your kind words & it sounds like you handled your own situation wisely & beautifully! xx
It is us that keeps the door ajar for them , i guess its the empty days when im not at work and the kids at school , that do me in . I do manage half baked attempts and keeping busy i feel so foolish for being reeled in , my mm prob sensed i was heading for the door and turned up the heat , texting every day , taking me places being warm and effectionate but now he prob feels im back where i am and poof hes gone back to odd text a week and im left feeling despondant, stupid . i know deep in side whats going on and hes not all that why do iwaste my time over thinking living by a phone how sad for a educated person like me .
July 3, 2012
I met my ex boyfriend 6 years ago. When we first met I knew that he used to deal drugs and unfortunately in his mind that was all he could to take care of himself. I told him that in order for us to be together he had to get a real job. We moved in together and for a year and a half things seemed great. He was working and was also being a step dad to my son. When we moved down in the city area of where I lived everything changed. He quit working and had excuse after excuse why there wasn’t a job out there for him. We ended up moving out from each other and have been living separately for 2 and a half years. During those 2 and half years he went back to dealing drugs and really never came around. Right before we moved out from each other doctors found a tumor on my brain stem. My ex never went to the hospital with me and never was around when I had chemo. When I had my first surgery he came to me and said he couldn’t help me because he needed to get his life together. Now its like deja vu all over again. I recently had to have surgery again and his response this was time was we aren’t together so why does he need to be there for me. Iknow a great deal of people would read this and think I am nuts for even thinking bout this guy but I can not help but feel hopeless. How is it that someone who supposedly loved me at one point not be there for me when I first had surgery let alone now? He still is dealing drugs and I just don’t get why someone would want to deal drugs for a living and walk the streets than be with someone and have a family.
Hopeless, I am so sorry, hope you feel better? I noticed I always had guys for good times, but not when I really needed them (like fixing my shelf, or going to hospital appointment, moving home) They always found excuses, and sometimes I feel it is much better to do by myself than to rely on them…The answer to your question – your ex grown up man and lives his life as he pleased and does not need a family. I know it is very hard to let him go but he made a decision and he is not going to changed his mind (I had an ex few years back who used to take cocaine)
Let him go, he disappointed you so many times, you should think about yourself and your child….(((hugs)))
Thanks runnergirl. I feel like such a twit having to commit to not giving the GHOST of a dead exAC the time of day but it’s realy THAT bad. If I allowed it he would haunt me & play on my guilt (a throw back to the ol flo nightingale) for an eternity. Come on! I have a LIFE to get on with here & serious issues of my OWN which I NEED to focus on. Allowing myself to be waylaid by the ghost of an exAC would be serious self destructive behaviour & I just cant afford it – not if I don’t want to lose any MORE than I already have that is! (Sorry but I need to be giving myself this stern talking to right now because the damage left in the wake of this person was HUGE & I’m STILL picking up the pieces even now & far from out of the woods yet!)
I think I need a hug ladies. All of this avoiding giving the time of day to a GHOST for goodness sakes, on top of the shock of it all has left me a tad numb & unhinged. I look like I just stuck my finger in an electrical socket ie a crazy lady because umm, I don’t actually BELIEVE in ghosts (well I didn’t until now anyways 🙁 )
Hey Teachable,
Here’s a giant hug for you. Squeeeeeze. It must be terribly sad and such a shock even though you warned him that his ‘lifestyle’ was a big problem. Based on your comments, you did everything you could do except let him drag you and your son into his muck. That’s commendable. I actually thought a lot about your commitment to not giving the ghost of the deceased AC the time of day. I don’t think you are being a twit. He wasn’t good for you when he was alive as you have stated and he certainly isn’t going to be now. Thus, you have to focus on you and it would be self-destructive to do otherwise.
Your comment made me think about giving the ghost of my fantasy exMM the time of day. I know it’s not the same as the ghost of your deceased AC but it helped me to see that my fantasy is deceased. I know the passing of an individual you cared about is not the same and I do NOT mean to minimize the grief you are feeling surrounding his passing in any way, shape or form. The grief surrounding a loved on, albeit AC, must tremendous. Tomorrow is the 4th of July in the US and we usually spent the 4th together. I’ve been a bit sad this week and taking brief trips down memory lane until I realized (based on your comments) I was giving the ghost of my fantasy exMM the time of day even if only in my thoughts. I don’t know if this will help you. After reading your comments last night, I spent the day sitting with my fantasy ghost of 4th of July’s past (a reference to Dickens Christmas Carol-one of my favorites) sorting out what was reality from dreamer fantasy and saying good-bye to the fantasy. I really hope I haven’t offended you or anyone here. I apologize if I did. I do not mean any disrespect. You have suffered a great loss on top of what you already went through with this individual so it’s okay to feel unhinged.
I didn’t believe in ghosts until now either. For me, the ghost is in my head.
You’ll pick up the pieces, get out of the woods, and say good bye to his ghost. Here’s another giant hug. I hope I’ve articulated this carefully. I want to give you support and encouragement. xxoo
I haven’t been with ex in 3 months and I still feel hopeless. I met my ex 6 years ago and thought he was the one. When I met him he was dealing drugs and told him that in order to be in my life he had to get a real job. We moved in together and I thought everything was great. He was working, he was great to my son and for a year and a half it was everything I wanted. We moved down more in the city area and thats when it seemed like everything went south. My ex started hanging out with his old friends and quit his job and than had excuse after excuse as to why he couldn’t work. I ended up getting sick and doctors found a tumor on my brain stem. I ended up having surgery and my boyfriend was no where to be seen. He came around saying to me he couldn’t be there for me because he needed to get his life together. He ended up coming back around after a few months. Than 6 months after that I decided we needed to live separately if he wasn’t going to be able to help me the way I needed. He went back again to dealing drugs and not once in the last 2 years since we have been living separately has he been there for me with chemo or surgery. He broke up with me again 3 months ago saying he needs to get his life together. I feel hopeless because how does someone who says they love me not even come around when I am sick and needed him the most. I also feel hopeless because I can guarantee he is sleeping with someone and that hurts because it feels like everything that has happened is because I became sick.
Dear Hopeless,
Yours is a long story and I am sorry to hear that you went through such major health issues without the support you hoped for.
If you’re new to BR then welcome; there are hundreds of articles here that will help answer your questions and soothe the pain; there are also articles that will push you to look inside yourself and ask why you accepted this degree of turmoil in your life.
Why in any scenario would a man who deals drugs seem like a good prospect for a life partner? You telling him he had to get a real job maybe changed his surface behaviour for a bit, but not the character qualities that had him dealing. Dealing drugs and living a party lifestyle is much ‘easier’ than being responsible to a partner and family. You saw the ‘real’ him when he went back to his original ways; he sounds like a very erratic person and not one whom a careful person would expect to be there for her through major trials.
If you can turn the sadness you feel into motivation to get some self-esteem and focus on you, you will soon find that losing this guy may be one of the best things that has happened to you. You deserve someone who supports you, especially when times are hard.
You’ll find lots of support here. (hugs)
thank you for your response. I think its hard for me right now because although I know its best to walk away I feel like he was the only person I could rely on at times and now waking up realized I couldnt really rely on him at all when it came to emotions. Financially he was there but that was it.
hopeless
“He still is dealing drugs and I just don’t get why someone would want to deal drugs for a living and walk the streets than be with someone and have a family.” Get a grip on reality. That’s what he wants to do. You can’t stop him.
What you want is not what he wants. This didn’t go wrong when you got sick, it went wrong when you decided that a drug dealer would make a good boyfriend.
“I feel hopeless because how does someone who says they love me not even come around when I am sick and needed him the most”. That’s easy. He doesn’t love you or your child.
Be grateful that he has gone. I get that you have likely isolated yourself from your friends and family in pursuit of this hopeless fantasy but there are charities who will help you. Get in touch with them.
I’ve known drug dealers, I’ve worked with lawyers who’ve represented drug dealers. They are amoral. They’re not poor mixed up guys who don’t know what they’re doing. They are calculating users and exploiters. Do not allow him to do it to you or to your child anymore, What’s he dealing? You could end up shot.
Ladies – WOW. Hitting the nails on the head – all of it. THANK YOU.
Therapy went very well (I go weekly), and yes, we are working on the father issues, not to mention my personal boundaries.
I’m working on so many things, and every day (just a couple days, but it’s a start!) I don’t engage with ExMM, I feel stronger. Just have to get past this Toxic-Detox.
I’m fully aware I am mourning a fantasy. I’ve lived in-between fantasy and reality my wole life (since the rape at 13). Realizing it, and working on it, is where I need to be, and I need to be patient with myself, but know I will get there.
It’s been years since I used, but this detox is, in many ways, so much harder than any drug I’ve gotten out of my system.
Then, there’s wanting to reach out to his wife. THAT’s a fantasy, but I am aware it’s just a way to stay engaged – and it would be horribly descructive. My guess is, she’ll find out eventually. Not my business. Still, my heart goes out to her – and that’s also from a place of massive GUILT. More issues to work on.
Thanks for being my ReHab.
And thank you Natalie, for providing us this safe place to land – and grow.
xxoo
Christine, there were days and weeks I fantasized about reaching out to my eum. But the more I didnt do it the better I felt and then I reached a point where I didnt think about it anymore and you will get there too. Trust me, if you reach out to the wife, you will be the one to suffer as I’m sure she already knows and is in denial or her own fantasy world as you were. I know this because I was the wife of a cheater and his ow reached out to me…I already knew something was going on, but I didnt think it was cool at all that she reached out to me, I treated her like dirt. Dont subject yourself to that. Everytime you have a weak moment read BR. I wish this site was around when I was going thru the scorned wife madness, it would have made my life easier.
Christine – to follow up your comparison to detox – I know that lots of people in their first months or years of recovery from substances go to meetings every day, sometimes twice a day, to keep them from using again. I have found BR to be a great place to come to, as often as I need, first to keep me from obsessing about the ex, and now to keep me positive and motivated to love myself and do a little work for myself every day. Hope you do, too.
Oh yes, and I was also thinking of you late last night … and thought about the issue of ‘privacy’ or one’s ‘inner boundaries.’ With your experiences, I wondered if you had considered all the ways that your most intimate self (both physically and spiritually) has not been treated like a precious thing that only you, and the very few people you share yourself with, know.
I thought about you writing about all your experiences on your blog – I was traumatized as a kid and have written two books of poems and many more pieces that take every intimate part of me and put it on show. People love it, they want to see me get raw and exposed, but they don’t understand that I never realized that I was sharing “all” of me with a bunch of strangers. I didn’t know where the centre of “all” of me was.
For me, the most intimate part of me was violated and neglected before I could put my own gentle gates in place and choose who to let in and out. I also wouldn’t have instinctively put those gates there, because that part of me was so scared that who would want to shut themselves in, alone, when one is in terror on the inside?
Lately I think only when the deepest, smallest self is not terrified, can she find out where her different walls – for strangers, acquaintances, friends, family and intimates – should be. For most of my life, if I needed to put up a wall / a boundary with someone, it was too painful, it felt like shutting myself in to a lonely awful place; so I lived with no boundaries, and kept to myself in order to have a sense of control over my privacy and inner safety while staying (unintentionally) emotionally wide open.
But as I have discovered, it’s no use being as emotionally open as 24-hr Hasty Market if one gets so pushed around by other peoples’ energy that I have to put two miles between me and other people whenever I want to stabilize.
Don’t know if that makes sense – I also danced a bit when I was young and thought the attention was awesome – had no idea what I was missing emotionally. To my mind, my early poetry was basically emotional stripping – so I thought I’d share my thoughts on discovering a relationship btw boundaries and my own value.
WAY off topic of this post!
That was so beautiful. Thank you for sharing.
It might take awhile to get past him – even a couple of months! But once you do NC one time and fully come to grips with what was going on, the next time, it is a lot faster to get past it. Plus with a guy like that whom you NEED to be away from, NC is truly the only way. Many aspects of these non-relationships exist in our imagination. I have been so guilty of this….and some guys really know how to play into this.
The first time my ex boyfriend EUM left me unexpectedly and abruptly, I was totally devastated – for about 2 months (after 2 years with him, off and on). It was the first time in my life I experienced depression. He then came back, I took him back, and he left the relationship again a few months later. He just wasn’t wired inside to be able to be deeply and healthfully emotionally connected. There are reasons for this – not which justified his behavior, but which made me realize he never will be able to (hadn’t yet, in his 50-something life). Between the first time he left and the second, I’d been devouring posts on BR, seeking explanation for his puzzling behavior (didn’t even know what an EUM was ’til finding this site).
I like the audio tape version (the book is boring) of “It’s Called a Breakup Because it is Broken”, read by the authors. I’d listen driving around and parts made me laugh. Journalling helps. Support here helps a lot.
Be patient with yourself. NC is a clean break. Did you sign up for NML’s no contact E mails? These really help, too.
(cont.)….I forgot to add – so after having read BR and getting a handle on what had happened, and become strong again – the next time he left I was NOT devastated. I let go and NC’d him for 10 mos. And during that time I totally healed and got past him. (He was my DREAM man, too. If I could order a man, it would be just like him – BUT – with his emotional availability intact. That made it tough as he was so appealing – addictive, really.)
If I would have reached out to him at all during that time, I would have been so emotionally vulnerable I guarantee I would have been hurt all over again. Don’t do it.
Christine,
I just read your previous posts and I have to say Man, what an asshole!!
It´s going to take a while for you to get angry at that condescending hypocrite MM so I´m getting angry in your behalf for now.
Of course, I´ve done the same thing – questioned myself when I should´ve been mad with an AC, feeling like a victim because of someone who was unworthy of me. The thing that works for me now, is I ask myself what if it was my daughter who was being treated like that by some guy, how would I feel? I find I get all protective and the focus shifts on me, instead of on all the BS these morons feed us.
Omg. Loved this post …..haven’t posted for a long while ….as I thought I was with ” Mr available ” ….last 8 months ….man what is wrong with my ” flagometer “….. Decided to go NC ..after nats advice ….after the next shitty thing he does…..actually was it 2nd, 3rd 4th……( yawn ) …shitty thing …..
We had been booked to see Coldplay at the Emirates since last august ( we were just friends when it was booked )
He cancelled…stating other committments …err….and I dont want this big event to look like anything else …errr wtf ???….. Last time I saw him he had his tongue in my mouth ….and hands else where ….and we where ” together ” …he just forgot to mention he’d changed his mind !!!
Why I gave him the time of day after that is beyond me !!!! My sister …coughed the word ” arse ” ….everytime his name came up after that ….
Anyway ….I owed him 50 quid …. So I put it through his door….. Saying ” hi handsome ( a name always addressed him with ) ….here is your money. Thanks.
I got such a strong reaction … Why did you do that .!!! Blah blah blah….err because you said I owed you money and you wanted it before the end of June…
He lives with someone else’s family…..said they might open his mail…..and he would have been bloody livid with me ??!!!
This apparently all about me…..and I only ever wanted his money
( what 50 quid ) …..this coming from a very wealthy man…..who told me I could always ask for anything ..” and it wasn’t a control thing??!!
After I asked why such an extreme reaction ( not the first by a long shot ) …I mentioned he had not kept many of his words to me ……
His reaction was wtf ???
Well I could list them….but with him….I couldn’t be arsed anymore..
The biggies…..I know how badly let down you where by your husband…let go…trust me I will never let u down.
Even if we werent physical….I will always be on your team, be your friend..
And the small stuff…..Paris , sending my kids to centre parks, taking my daughter shopping, Cornwall, ..blah blah etc etc etc……yuck .
Yes!!! Ladies I don’t appear to have learnt yet !!! But this round I’m not crying into my wine….I feel strangely peacefull, free, and relieved !! Is that normal ??
No chance of breaking NC …the stories on here really help. Thanks
Jeez, Fitnessfreak, my nerves are frazzled just reading your post 🙂
I feel strangely peacefull, free, and relieved !! Is that normal ??
———–
I think it is, moreso, after hanging out on BR for awhile and reading the other stories. Easier to call it for what it is and move on.
That sounds intense, what you went through. Good job staying strong.
I feel the same as Fearless!
I think you should be honest with yourself. The detail in your post shows you are far from free of this man and not in a peaceful place. Please do not delude yourself, or you may end back up in the same place,
Time to address what brought you here, so you do not repeat!!!!!
Fearless, Runnergirl, cc and others on BR.
I just wanted to mark one week NC by extending my thanks yet again. So sorry if I sound like a broken record with all this thanking, but your ideas and support really are helping me beyond belief, to stop giving the exMM the time of day.
Fearless, I hope you are right that one year from now, I won’t know how I stomached all his crap.
Runnergirl – congrats on one year NC!
Christine – I am right there with you in this new NC!
Amazing!!!
Thanks runnergirl. I really needed that hug. I really did. Not just because of the shock my AC passing away – although it IS a shock – I seem to have moved quite quickly into the anger stage of the grieving process. Not so much anger that he is dead. That came very early. Instead I’m back to the tired old nugget of anger athow badly I ALLOWED him to treat me – something prior to learning of his passing I felt resolved about. I don’t know why his passinh has triggered that up again – I suspect because deep down I held out vague hope that he might return one day, a changed man, to make a genuine amends. Now that wont happen so I’m left with memoroes of a man I once loved as nothing more than a user & abuser
It’s very sad. Mostly for him because he lost his life & will now be remember bt someone who was so close to him in such a way. I can’t really afford to indulge in ‘fantasy thinking’ about what a ‘great guy’ he was ‘underneath his problems’. That may or may not be so. I never the chance to find out. No more time of day for Ms Dreamer & the Fantasy Relationship she HOPED to one have with him here. End of.
I have so many OTHER things going on right now. IMPORTANT things. UNI exams. I must FOCUS. I’m still very physically ill. More than ever. I’ve had to register with student disability services. I don’t sleep at night like normal ppl do b.cuz of my physical health problems – ever. Now is the WORST of times to get this news. I’ve known for about 10 days now so I’ve had that time to process the news. I’ve had a session w my counsellor about it. Hours on the phone with one one friend about it. A couple of calls to a grief phone line about it. A two hour call with his sister about. A number of posts on B.R about it. NUMEROUS hauntings at my home where I have discussed what happened & how we both feel about it with each other directly in my home (these have eased off SUBSTANTIALLY since my NC committment to not give his ‘ghost’ the time of day ie he still ‘appears’ to me visually in my head but then when I don’t enagage him he goes away. Sometimes he storms off in a huff. lol. Othertimes he just quietly quietly wanders off. I feel so sad typing this btw. As if he’s lost somehow & that’s why he keeps hanging around 🙁 ). In short; I’ve done all I can to process this right now. The final thing I can perhaps do is go to the place we…
met. There is a church there & light a candle a candle for him. I’ve realised I need to forgive him. Not for him – but for me. I try to be a kind & compassionate person. What sort of compassion am I showing by resenting a dead person?
He may have been an AC, & he WAS an AC make no mistake about that, but also he had ‘issues’. In essence he made poor choices in life but did the best he could with what he knew. That can happen to anyone. It’s still NO EXCUSE for being an AC but sometimes that’s the way it is.
I dont know when I will I go to the church but I think I need to. I’m not religious but it feels like the right thing to do. I need to help him be at peace – because he died suddenly – (nothing ominous – simple heart failure) so as an unexpected death (to him at least – not to me of course) he was was not at peace (which is why I think he has been haunting me ). MORE importantly, I need to find peace. I really do. I am very very tired…and I NEED this to be over so I can finally be free to start a new chapter in my life.
Teachable, don’t worry about compassion for him.
Start with yourself, and forgiving yourself, and the feelings will naturally extend out to him.
I find that the easiest way for me is to move into curiosity and ask myself questions. “What would it feel like/be like if I could turn all that compassion on me right now?”, “if I could feel forgiveness and compassion for myself the way I know I have for others in the past, what would be different/how would I feel/what would that be like right now?”
Sometimes I have started with, “I don’t even know what it would be like to forgive or feel compassion for me, and maybe it seems like a bad idea and I shouldn’t let myself off the hook cuz God only knows what kind of horrible person I might become if I stop beating myself up (because in my mind, constant self-punishment was the only thing keeping me from being a serial killer, lol), but I’m open to the possibility. I’m willing to at least give it a try because I notice that beating the snot out of myself with my thoughts and emotions isn’t actually working to make me a better person or improving my life and my character, I notice that it’s actually making me sick and miserable. I can always go back to the old way if this whole “compassion for myself” thing turns out to be a bunch of useless hoopla.”
Sunshine
all you know is that what you have been doing so far is a bunch of useless hoopla – so I wouldn’t worry about trying things a different way o that account. Also compassion for others does not mean you can’t have compassion for yourself, or vice versa. It’s perfectly possible (and healthy) to do both. The incessant self-flagellation thing doesn’t benefit you or anyone else.
I’m sorry Teachable, this must be a terribly difficult and confusing time. You should remember the good and the bad in him because that is the whole person. Good bits and bad bits. I think sometimes we are so focused on getting real about them that we forget that they are just people with strengths and weaknesses and we can have good memories as well as painful ones. Keep well x
Allison
Thanks for your comments…. The truth is I WAS deluded for the past 6 months probably….but it was the last shitty thing that made me wake up….he,was not as obvious as some other EUMs and flew lower under the radar.
You are right I am not free of this man …..which is why I have gone NC….and I do feel very peacefull and freer not worrying how I will respond if I hear from him. Or if I should get in touch. nc took away those decisions.
Thanks tho.
I want that SO much Sunshine. I really do. I just got off the phone to a friend where I managed to identify that I felt I needed ‘to forgive myself’. That was as far as I got. She said what for, you’ve done nothing wrong? I agreed. Then I said I felt I needed to ‘forgive him for being such an AC these past few years’ (in the relationship 20 yrs ago he wasn’t perfect – EU perhaps although in my early 20’s I was not yet developed enough to be able to recognise this) – but more of a ‘loveable larrikan’ type who wouldn’t (at least on purpose), hurt a fly. This time was (& it pains me deeply to say this as it points to the severity of the deterioration of his character), well, lets just say he was different. He KNEW how terribly he was hurting me but he just didn’t care. It took a long time for me to reconcile the loving man I’d once known with the cretin he’d now become. It was all so confusing. Anyway. More fool me on that one.
My friend explained to me that it’s ok for me to have many DIFFERENT & MIXED emotions of how I feel about him (& myself) now that it’s all over. That helped A LOT. So maybe one part of me can mourn the kind man I once loved 20+ years ago, another can be relieved that I will never again encounter abuse at the hands of the AC I came to know more recently, whilst still another can be sad for the wonderful man I knew he had the potential to be, if only he’d listened & learned to make better choices.
With regards to compassion there’s something about what you said that has hit me very strongly. The reaction in my body immediately bought on Oprah’s ‘ugly cry’. I’m scared to even go there. I’m frightened that if I open the box & peek inside my whole world is gunna just fall apart & crumble. Despite everything I’ve done to try to deal with this the best as I can – at least until after my exams – I’m very aware I’m holding it ALL in. My best friend left to go o.seas the day BEFORE I got the news. Under normal circumstances I’d have stayed w her a few days while I found my bearings but ths not an option. She’s away for three weeks & supported me through the breakup. She was the one I went to, to help me delete his second last email to me with his number in it asking me to call (I didnt). When she gets back I will open the lid just a crack & see what happens because at least someone will be here to catch me if I fall…
Meantime I will try a variation on yr theme. I will try being kind to myself. Little tiny baby steps each day of just being kind to myself. And every time my heart sinks, (as it does A MILLION times a day when I remember he really is gone & never coming back), I will quiety say to myself, ‘you did everything you possibly could Teachable, & his dealth was his journey & is NOT your fault’. I have this terrible feeling that THAT is what this is really all about. Why I don’t seem to be doing so well at letting go. Because even though intellectually I understand this is not mt fault, there is a little voice like the devil somewhere that whispers, ‘yes it is, if only you had returned his call/flown up & got him like u’d wanted to/insert any one of a number of other hair brained ideas…’
No amount of logic seems to counter this irrational thinking. That’s what makes it so irrational. I wonder what compassion would even look like to a woman so riddled with guilt that she metaphorically speaking left another to die in order to save her own life. It’s such a heavy burden to bear. I can feel the weight even as I type. I wish there was a way not to give this irrational thinking the time of day except it’s not even a thought. It’s much much deeper than that. When my exams are over I might go & get some serious trama therapy because now that I think of it, actually, this has really been pretty darned tramatising. I feel like a survivor of the Titantic. Except I’m suposed to be happy I survived right? But what if your beloved went down with the ship? Then how would one feel. Very confused I suspect just like me 🙁
I just signed up for Natalie’s No Contact E Course. Thanks for the suggestion.
I am determined to do this.
Much love to you all.
xxoo
A very helpful system of advice that Nat has created for us! Hand in on this blog, Christine, you’ll soon reach a place where thinking of your ex will bring only derivatives of the word “arse” to mind!
Chrintine, when a man tells you that you deserve so much better, believe him.
Hang on. Something has just hit me Sunshine
Do you mean forgive myself as in ‘what if I hadn’t become ill with my own physical health issues which severely limited my mobility, thereby causing me to – in my view – somewhat prematurely – ‘run out of steam’ & not be able to fly interstate to sort things out with him in person (like I desperately wanted to, but my body simply would not permit), BEFORE THE END CAME FOR HIM, AN ACTION WHICH MAY VERY WELL HAVE SAVED HIS LIFE (the heart failure was drug related)…
So, what if I was able to forgive myself for THAT? Basically, for getting sick at the wrong time & not being able to fight for the life of someone who despite it all, I still DID love very much?
Do you mean what if I was able to have compassion for MYSELF for that? If that’s what you mean, I never thought of it like that before. I don’t really even know what that would look like…
Do you think I’m on the right track here or am I heading down a dead end?
teachable, I do believe you are on to something there…
“Forgiveness means giving up all hope for a better past.” ~ Lily Tomlin
It sounds to me like you could stand to appreciate and thank your body for refusing to allow you to go down with a sinking ship!
For 23 years, my mind endlessly ruminated either consciously or in the background, about the death of my newborn son. Coulda shoulda woulda…I blamed myself and beat myself up mercilessly for over TWENTY-THREE YEARS. I would wake up every morning thinking about it and fall asleep every night thinking about it.
Just over a year ago was the first morning I woke up and for the VERY first time started thinking, “it couldn’t have happened any other way, it happened and it was perfect and I couldn’t control it and that’s okay and I can accept it.”
I sobbed for hours and it was like a light coming on. There was no one thing or even a hundred things I could have done, it was the culmination of an infinite number of events going back through time to the very beginning of EVERYTHING and fit into a bigger scheme. My baby was dead and the world kept spinning and I was alive and that was just the way of it and I didn’t have to understand it or make sense of it. I finally could let myself off the hook and stop blaming myself for and trying to change the past, and allow myself to live and be happy again.
Sunshine,
I am so sorry about your little boy. There is no greater loss than the loss of a child. That is very hard thing to bear. Hugs to you x
Mymble, thank you. Can you believe nobody has ever said that to me? I’m in tears.
I also feel uncomfortable and ashamed. I feel that in wanting to relate to teachable that I inadvertently revealed too much and turned the focus on me. Out of respect for teachable and BR I’d appreciate it if the commentary on my experience ends here, especially as it’s gone so far off topic.
Sunshine, my heart goes out to you for the loss of your baby boy, but I’m glad that you have managed to find peace. I recently lost my baby and every waking moment since has been spent thinking about what I could have done to prevent it. I feel incredibly guilty as I spent the first few weeks of my pregnancy crying because I didn’t want the pregnancy. As time went on that changed and I wanted him very much. Being treated so cruelly by the baby’s father has added to my pain. I’m maintaining NC, but I’ve spent the best part of this week angry with the ex, angry at myself and still desperately upset over the loss of my baby. Yesterday, I started to calm down and thought I was starting to accept it all. I stopped feeling so angry and for the first time in months got a tiny, tiny glimpse of a less painful future, but now I’m having a weak moment. For some reason or another I want to reach out and contact the ex! The man who showed barely any emotion, but sent me a cheque after losing the baby with a post-it note saying I needed a holiday. What’s wrong with me? Am I scared to let go? How can I forgive myself for what happened when I created it all in the first place and my baby was the innocent victim.
What if you could ask better questions?
What’s right with you?
What if what you wanted to say to the unavailable guy was something you needed to hear for yourself?
What if you had the courage to let go, what would that be like?
How can you NOT forgive yourself? You are only human, subject to change and frailties and mistakes and confusion and all manner of vulnerability!
How does it honor your baby in any way to continue to suffer when he is at peace?
What if you could forgive yourself and had your baby’s blessing?
What if you could go on with your life and nothing about being happy now dishonors the pain of the past or diminishes it in any way?
What if forgiving yourself only made your loss and the pain *more* meaningful and not less?
What if letting go and forgiving yourself gave you the space and peace you needed to actualize and live out the wisdom gained so that you can be a beacon for others? (Especially thinking of Natalie here…if she were wallowing in shame and self-punishment for her crappy relationships in the past, BR wouldn’t exist!)
Sunshine, instead of beating myself up and reaching out for more pain (contacting the EUM), I spent this morning writing down answers to your questions and the insight I’m gaining is invaluable. My feelings of guilt and loss keep playing over again because I want things to be different. Perhaps I need to try to accept that there was nothing I could have done and begin the process of healing myself. Thank you so much for taking the time to help a stranger and the best thing is I’m still NC.
sunshine-
i’m late to this part of the thread, but i want to offer you my deepest condolences and my deepest respect. what you have turned this felling experience into is humbling, beautiful and, most of all, correct.
all my heart to you. and the little one smiling down on you.
Ooooohhh!!! I just saw these responses and am bubbling over!!
I burst into joyful, grateful laughter reading these…thank you thank you thank you!
I have gotten so much amazing feedback in just the past two weeks online and in ‘real’ life I feel like every horror I’ve experienced is being made right through grace and I’m coming into my own, true purpose.
Lilly, how courageous and brave and strong of you to stop in the midst of the current of all of that emotion and move into curiosity and wonder!
cc as I read your comment I did burst into tears and felt my little one close to me, whispering, “now do you see? it all serves a greater purpose.”
Our deepest wounds can be our greatest teachers. May all of our life’s wisdom, and compassion for ourselves and others continue to blossom, flourish and mature.
Thanks Polly. I appreciate your kind words xxx
I’ve let myself down again. I was done with him and finally left it alone. Then he finds me out on the road twice, pulls up next to me, blows me a kiss. Then gets me on IM at work to say he’s “missing me hardcore”. I explain how i dont want to get myself attached again for him to once again blow me off for someone else. He tells me we need to start spending time together. He asks if he can stop by to visit after his game. I say ok. 🙁 Two hours in bed and the next day he’s promptly back to pushing me back to arms length. Haven’t heard from him now in 6 days. Seriously he could not care less what he does to hurt me. I guess he just wants to know he has me there in his back pocket. I hate myself.
Dragonfly, if you’re going to hate anyone, at least hate him because it will ensure that you don’t wind up in his bed again. Ever. I mean, seriously, who hasn’t been sucked in by (and hurled themselves at), a slimey, slippery, scheme-y, persuasive ex? There’s more people who have fallen for this shite than haven’t. Get angry and the next time you feel remotely tempted to engage with this clown, remember today. You made a mistake – big deal! Why be so hard on yourself? LEARN from this experience – never trust an asshole that has the brass balls to blow you kisses after you cut him off and then IM’s you into the sack.
Amen! My ex-AC definitely had brass balls and I am beyond pissed at my last encounter with his assholery. It keeps me from still wanting his attention as I had in the past.
I’m none too pleased with myself for allowing him to suck me back in multiple times but I know that the AC is the bad actor in the drama. If I don’t ever engage again, there can be no new pain. Lesson finally learned.
Thanks for the support. Yea. I know he’s just trying to keep me on his hook. He doesn’t want to be with me properly but can’t let me go either. The really stupid thing is that i KNOW he’s not even someone i would be compatible with long term anyhow. I really wish that i had never let the friendship progress further. He should have been just another casual friend at work. Nothing more. Aahhhhh..hindsight!
Oh Sunshine. Im so sorry for the terrible loss of your little baby. That must be the most difficult thing a person could ever have to face. And here I am fussing over a 50 yo grown man! I feel so silly!
I would say I cant imagine what that might be like, and one way I cant, but in another I ALMOST can. My unborn child was willfully murdered in utero by a violent partner when I was only a young 15 yo girl. It was horiffic. Only now, 28 years later have I finally found the courage to report it to the police to try to find justice for the unborn child and I. But still, my child was unborn, so it was still not yet a child as such. Yours though was a new born and do blaming yourself for such an awful thing which I’m sure was not yur fault at all, must have such a heavy burden.
I still have a long way to go here. I think I must be still in shock. I’m noticing time alone once the essentials are done is when my mind wanders. In the coming days my study routine will kick in hard core so hopefully it will be pushed to the back of my mind. I dont know HOW to fogive myself. Plus I really need to get the exam out of the way as priority number one, and by that time at least my bestie will have returned from o.seas. I’m so waiting for that to happen. Still holding it all in I guess. Not much else I feel I can really do.
Thankyou for sharing your story with me. It touched me deeply. A gain I’m so sorry you’ve had such a traumatic experiece, but grateful you found the courage to use to offer some hope to someone like me, a mere stranger in cyber space no less. I feel very priviledged. XXX (((((((((( huge hugs)))))))))))