One of the issues that many people struggle with is recognising when they’re being used, which is when a person avails themselves of something or someone as a means of accomplishing their chief aim. They exploit what they perceive as a vulnerability in order to gain an advantage.
While there are instances when it’s quite obvious that you’re being used, like when somebody suddenly starts spending a lot of time around you and then asks you for something and then once they’ve got it, they either ask for something else or move onto someone else, being used is something, that like abuse, can creep up on you and catch you unawares. When you recognise it, you may doubt yourself, especially if you tend to like to ‘see the best in people’ or you’re inclined to be a blame absorber.
Using is likely to have an element of ‘targeting’ – recognising that a person can be of use, with it sometimes coming down to exploiting what they perceive as ‘vulnerabilities’, which may just be good traits, such as being giving or trusting. Or, having the perfect ‘flaw’ that’s not a flaw like a ‘suddenly’ unpalatable age gap, race, religion, child etc.
Readers regularly share stories with me about people who came back into their lives after a long time (Returning Childhood ‘Sweetheart’ and boomeranging exes) as well as tales of casual relationships that started out oh-so-fun but resulted in plenty of pain. It’s easy to get caught up in why they thought that an ex who did them over when they were sixteen was going to be their saviour thirty years later, or whether one can truly expect to get into a casual involvement and not get their fingers burnt when what they really want is to be loved inside a relationship, not dialed (or texted) as if ordering a sex pizza with a topping of ego stroking pepperoni, but there’s something very important being missed here:
Of all the people in all the world, why did they get back in touch with you? Why did they choose to tap you up for a casual arrangement?
If for instance, your younger work colleague goes through a breakup and then starts flirting with you and then propositions you for a casual relationship, you might feel flattered, especially if you’re not feeling that confident about your dating prospects. You might think Ah, what the hell and dive right in there for some fun and maybe it is fun for a while until you’re not able to keep your feelings in check. You tell him/her that your feelings have changed and they say… “I really like you but I just don’t think a relationship with our age gap would work” and it becomes clear that this is actually a strong value that they’ve always possessed, not something ‘inspired’ by you.
Now granted, it started out casual and I think we can overestimate our capacity for these involvements, telling ourselves “I can handle it!” because we delay dealing with reality and considering longer-term consequences for instant gratification and the fantasy. If one person no longer wants casual though, it’s no longer casual which means naked time and ‘hanging out’ is over – it’s no longer a mutually fulfilling agreement and it’s very possible, it might never have been. While the age gap reasoning is a tad shady considering that it’s not like the age difference is new information, we can be generous and say that at least this person knows their values.
Here’s the issue though: I’ve had quite a few people share alarmingly similar tales – just swap ‘too old’ for ‘too young’ or being work colleagues, or the ‘wrong’ colour, religion etc – and the truth is, they were chosen for these reasons as it made it easier for the other party to extricate themselves further down the line.
Take the age gap example. It’s a lot easier to avoid dealing with getting over a breakup by starting up something with someone else as a distraction and if you want to avoid putting yourself in the position of starting something with someone who might then think that it was going somewhere, you pitch it as a casual relationship, which in your mind, pitching it as such and dropping in information like just being out of a relationship will cover your backside. When you scan your ‘perimeter’ and ponder who you could get involved with and maybe how you can meet someone without having to do the whole going on a dating site or cruising dating sites or even doing the whole ‘getting to know you’, you might look at your social circle or your colleagues. Then you choose someone whom you’re attracted to, but you know that it can’t go anywhere because you’ve already decided that it can’t anyway, which will give you the perfect get-out should they try to ‘upgrade’. Job done.
If you’re in this situation, ask yourself why you were chosen and I assure you, it’s nothing to do with your ‘worth’ and everything to do with how the situation could work for the other party and yes, it’s very possible that they thought that you’d be ‘flattered’.
It’s the exact same thing when you get these fly-by-night’s getting back in touch to take you on a trip down nostalgia lane, often approaching you on Facebook or with a text or joke email. Why, when they decided to flip through their mental Roladex of people who might be receptive to being approached and some flattery, did they think of you?
Most users when accused of being users, won’t hold their hands up to it simply because it’s not how they want to be perceived or what what they want to think about. They see their actions in a more benevolent light as if to say that they’re doing you some big flippin’ favour, giving you an ‘excursion’ away from your humdrum life or giving you a dose of their magical charm including Future Faking and Fast Forwarding that for some reason they think you should be thrilled to get. They rationalise that you’re getting something out of it, even if what it is, isn’t much, or not what you wanted, or isn’t on mutual terms and has been ‘given’ in a manner that allows them to ‘profit’ from you even though you’ll feel increasingly drained. They overvalue what they think that they’re ‘giving’ you, but it’s not ‘giving’; it’s a hidden agenda. It’s also very patronising.
You’re being taken for a ride, possibly literally…
It’s why you can feel so hurt after recognising that you’ve been used – you may have taken him/her at face value, trusted, given (even if it was a tad misguidedly especially if done in haste, on the internet or via an arrangement pitched as ‘fun’ that really wasn’t that fun), and they were just putting in hot air and as little as possible to get what they wanted.
Users are distinguished from people who maybe did start out with ‘good intentions’ and have screwed up, recognised it and sought to make amends or have at least stopped, by the fact that they’ll veer between seeking to get their needs, wishes and expectations met aggressively (by force), possibly with a smile on their face telling you how you’ll both benefit, or passive aggressively, through obstruction and basically saying one thing, doing another. They will not care about the impact on you because they will continue using until they’ve got what they want or you cut off their supply.
If you feel like you’re being used, you’re very likely being used – friendship or a relationship feels and looks like friendship or a relationship. Using, looks and feels like using.
If you haven’t twigged that you’re being used but you’re subsisting on a crumb diet while they feast on the fringe benefits and then some, yeah, you’re being used.
If they’ve aligned themselves around you at a time when it suited their greater purpose of having a place to stay / money / a job / a reference or just seizing on a vulnerability that would have you giving to a greater degree than you would under ordinary circumstances, you’ve been used, especially if now that you no longer serve a purpose or have figured out what is going on, they’ve suddenly disappeared or have become quite mean towards you.
Once you suspect or know that you’re being taken for a ride, it’s stop, look, listen and step back and adjust your boundaries time.
Your thoughts?
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This post speaks volumes. After being contacted by two exs one on Valentine’s day and one shortly after, I have wondered why they thought I would be interested. I have only one answer, its nice to give people the benefit of the doubt, but now I am wiser to the fact that some people see this trait as something to exploit. So the ex who called on valentine’s day told me how loved up he was…great for you, so why are you calling me lol!!! Somehow, he didn’t see the next line coming ‘so we have absolutely nothing to talk about because listening to you talk about your life gives me nothing I need!’ The second guy asks can he add me to his professional network..like I need a douche bag as a contact. My reply was ,’weren’t you the guy who sent me a text to tell me that he would never ever reply to any contact from me again and then never did, so why do I need a person like that on my professional contacts?!’ You ceased contact, so keep it so. He just thought after six years I would have forgotten! I think when you call these idiots on their stupidity and spell out why you don’t want to chat, be friends on see them they just simply vanish because no one wants to realize how utterly transparent they are!
Umi,
Good for you! 🙂
Umi, I loved your responses to these ACs, wow! How great to have boundaries, I hope one day I will be just like you:)
Little Star it has taken me six years to get to this place after being used for sex, being asked to be a friend with benefits, a mistress etc and it all being very demoralising. I certainly don’t wish for you that you get to be like me, maybe I wish for others that they see these idiot men for what they are users and exploiters of other people’s virtues and that other women wise up sooner and put protective boundaries in place that these idiots can not bypass. I wouldn’t want anyone to waste six years of their life wondering why they were treated such and such by someone who is best forgotten.
Dear Umi, I was used by my ex AC for five years and he was disappearing/coming back zillion times and I always took him, no matter what! I hope we will get over these ACs and start new life:) Good luck to you BR sister!
Yes, because people who are loved-up are DEFINITELY calling up their exes on VALENTINE’S DAY! Methinks the douche doth protest too much 😉
Umi,
Great spoken & so true!
When you recognise it, you may doubt yourself, especially if you tend to like to ‘see the best in people’ or you’re inclined to be a blame absorber.
I recognized this for a long time and ignored my gut that said there is no best in XMM. Now it had been almost 20 days of NC after 3 years. I was strong at first and hurting so much now. We have broken it off before but now I know I was being used and am hanging on by fingernails not to contat him. I was always the one to come back and contact before. Now, I am fnally done and ready to face the pain of separating from my addiction.
Georgia, hold tight! You sound exactly like I felt 4 months ago. It WILL get better, and a couple months down the line you will not believe how much better you are feeling. But you’ve got to go through it, not around it, not under it, not over it.
‘Seeing the best in people’ was a jolly permanent state of mind for me because it was the way I was brought up — ‘everyone is good inside!’ — ‘everyone just needs someone to lean on!’ — ‘you have to give a bigger piece of your heart to the ones who don’t have so much heart to give!’ — ‘everyone deserves your love!’ — ‘they may not express it too well, but everyone just wants you to think the best of them!’. What a load of hippy-dippy garbage.
My 5-year entanglement with a psychopathic MM would never have happened if I’d wised up earlier to all that garbage and educated myself on the dangers of personality disorders. But I hadn’t. I might as well have just ball-point-penned on my forehead ‘Use me! Abuse me! I’m free for the asking! I will believe all the words that come out of your mouth and even try to blame myself when you damage me!’
The pain goes in cycles, Georgia, so some days will be better than others — but it will get better and better and better as the weeks go on.
Thank you for the encouragement. Last time we separated it was 6 months when I reconnected with him. Its always me to go back, never him initiating it. so I know the change has to be with me. Who wouldn’t come back to a woman who will do anything for him with no strings attached? I am worth more than that. I can do this and appreciate your support.
Griz, I don’t totally agree. I think there is some merit in the ‘hippy dippy garbage’. It’s just a finesse point, but I think it all boils down to being the bigger person in all cases. Being the bigger person does not require being in a relationship with the small hearted, limited individual. I think that’s where we’ve taken a wrong turn. They are good notions, but only when applied in the appropriate context. Respect sharks, just don’t get in the water with them…
Georgia, separate yourself from your addiction from him like an alcoholic would separate themselves from alcohol. First, rid yourself of all reminders of him, including pictures, gifts, letters, much like an alcoholic gets rid of all the alcohol in their house. Next, stay away from any places that you went to together like the alcoholic stays away from bars and parties involving alcohol. If necessary, cut yourself off from mutual friends you may have. Alcoholics don’t hang out with their drinking buddies. And if you find yourself thinking about him, try to look at it as an alcoholic would think about a drink and follow the thought out, imagining what would happen if you pick up that phone and text him, how you would feel, what pain it would cause. The alcoholic tries to remember how awful their last drunk was when they think about taking a drink. Look for other thing to fill that void, that emptiness, like yoga, meditation, church,volunteering, anything rewarding and positive. And keep coming back to BR for strength. Good luck!
I’m sorry, Georgia, to hear how hard this is for you, and you are brave and courageous to call this an addiction. It’s hard to put the focus on one’s own behaviors, after months and years of getting dumped on by an awful, selfish, narcissistic man like your Person of Addiction probably is. I am in a similar situation. Every time I try to go NC, as much as I tell myself I miss him, the harder part is facing my own shortcomings, damage, weakness, and emotional stuntedness. When I have broken NC, it is because it has been too painful for me to face myself. Whatever the PoA gave me; the bad as well as the good, was a better distraction than facing myself. I’m humbled by this daily. I have really only barely begun to shift the focus off of him and onto myself, and you can bet that every day, I want to run back and hide in his drama. But, No! We’re going to do it this time. Yoga, meditation, getting up and away from the computer, stepping out and smelling the proverbial flowers, exercise, hanging out with friends who show up for us with their actions as well as their words, eating good, healthy food, taking ourselves out on the dates that the ACs never bothered to, talking to our family. While we have to confront the parts of ourselves which are not whole, we also get to become reacquainted with ourselves, and we no longer have to cede the question of our loveability to someone like these ACs who only MIRROR the lousy ways we see and treat ourselves. Good luck!
This post really hits home. The EUAC totally used me. And I let. And sometimes it’s hard for me to accept that because I know I’m better than that. I normally would have seen his BS from a mile away, but I was in such a bad place at that time that I thought he actually cared about me, when e was Future Faking and Fast Forwarding the whole time. By the grace of God, I found enough strength (with encouragement from my BFF and the posters on this site) to cut ties and go NC. But I hate it. I hate that I let him “get” me. I hate showing weakness. Ugh. I hate that I knew he was a dough but somehow thought I could be The Exception. I would give anything to be able to go back and undo it all.
**And I let him.
**I hate that I knew he was a douche but somehow thought I could be The Exception.
Stupid auto-correct.
McKenzie, girl. I don’t know if this is a comfort or not, but while you’re all tangled up in knots feeling bad for showing weakness, he’s onto the next. He’s a hungry dog looking for a meal. Hungry dogs don’t sit around smoking a pipe, reflecting on why they do the things they do, and judging those that fall for their crap as inferior. They just root around for their next meal. You’re giving this douche WAAAAAY too much credit for self-reflection. How do I know? Well, I’m still sore from kicking myself too. But they move on and so do we. The difference is that we have the desire and will to move on to BETTER, while they just move through life unconscious. Don’t envy him or seek restitution from him. It’s like trying to find a friend in an empty room. He’s just an empty room, Mckenzie.
“He’s a hungry dog looking for a meal.”
Revolution, too funny! I’m picturing an AC looking for buried dog bones like they look for the women they have on their back burners when they don’t have anyone at the moment. Digging up old lovers from the past, like some of the women who hear from them after years have gone by. They find that bone they buried because they can’t find a meal anywhere. Ha, thanks for the visual!
Revolution
Exactly. They like to have FBGs buried here and there, for the lean times, or just for a bit of a chew when the mood hits them.
I feel this way, too. I was sooo dang dumb. I’ve been 10 months NC and I keep hoping I will forgive myself, but I was so dumb. Stupid. Part of me wants to break NC to tell him what an a**hole he is, but I know it will do nothing. Plus, I at least have the satisfaction of his last email to me was him begging me how much he loved me and wants to hold me blah blah blah, I have to let that hang there. I just wish I “get over” it and forget it.
CoffeeCat, I believe this is one of us FBG’s greatest barriers to getting out of our patterns. The realization of how we’d been duped and the immediate reaction is to kick ourselves, then to try and turn the anger on the one who duped us. We’ve all been (or about to go) through it. I had the opportunity to put it on the exEUM MM Narc to a point, then in NC managed to kick my own ass around for a while, now I’ve finally gotten to the point of acceptance and on the horizon is compassion for both myself and the ass. I’m not quite there yet, still enjoying the energy the residual anger is giving me to motivate into action in my life. You will ‘get over it’, but it’s a process and won’t happen over night. And heaven forbid you should ‘forget’ why would you want to set yourself up for a repeat? Once you get past the embarassment of being ‘duped’, and extract the lessons from this experience, you will look at it diffrently. I look at my experience with a strange gratitude now. I love myself more than I did before and that is a gift. It may sound strange now, but in a few months you will understand. Stay strong and keep reading BR, it will all fall into place in time. There’s a lot to absorb, and it’s more than about him, there is a history of your own to look at too.
McKenzie, Don’t wish that you could go back just be grateful that you are out of the relationship now! I am in day 41 NC and I was used in every way you can think of by a man who I now know to the a true narcissist. I am starting to feel my energy return and every day I am so grateful that he is out of my life. I feel like I had a very narrow escape. There is such a sense of relief and believe me I have run the whole range of emotions over the last weeks. I hope you too come to a more peaceful place. Thank God that I found “The No Contact Rule” by “accident” on the internet the day that I needed it the most!! Stick with NC and you will start to understand that this man was in your life for a reason and that now you have a chance of being with a good man!
I’m almost three weeks NC. This week has actually been kind of rough because he’s trying different tactics to get my attention and provoke a response from me. He knows how to press my buttons, but I kept my cool and didn’t go off on him like I wanted to. I stayed NC. It underscored what an idiot he is and that brought me back to the “I can’t believe I ever fell for this Assclown’s BS” place, lol.
Be gentle with yourself … you did what you did, knowing what you did, at the time … When the student is ready, the teacher appears … and thankfully, Natalie’s writings help us to discern this “lesson opportunity” more clearly. Now you know what you DON’T WANT…and that helps you to know what you DO WANT … when I get down on myself for wasting time/money/energy (nearly 12 years worth)on someone … I try to focus on the feelings I DO want … to attract into my life. The NC approach is key. It really helps the scab to form on the heart wound. On March 1 it’ll be 3 months with only 2 little “slips” but they were done from my heart, tiny texts supporting my healing. Some days are easier than others … but the gifts that await are WORTH it.
I guess you are right. I only wasted about 8 months, and in the long run, it was probably worth it to figure out what I actually want/need in a man.
It still sucks, though. Oh well… I will stick with NC and continue to work on myself. See my comment above in response to Gillian; this week has been particularly rough.
Hang in there Ladies NC is so worth it. After a very rocky start of it as Nat can attest to I was for the most part going along happily NC for a couple of years then one day broke it not too long ago. Biggest mistake of my life but in the end best decision of my life.
Oh yes it was great for a few weeks, note the operative words “few weeks” then it was right back to the same BS.
It was like time had stood still for those few years, that I had just stepped back in time and there we were like nothing had happened or changed. Actually the only person who had changed was me, he was exactly the same.
After a weekend of blaming myself for my decision to engage him in any sort of meaningful dialogue about our old relationship but his only goal was to push the reset button as many times as he needed I got real again real fast.
I look at my fall from grace as a blessing. I saw all my hard work had paid off. I was able to walk away feeling good with my head held high. I actually felt sorry for him for he has lost out on me.
Can there be elements of both? Someone who veers berween being a genuine friend who made a mistake and got caught up in something and also sometimes shows elements of using and getting mean when it is noticed and even tries to curb the behaviour then gets back into it? And some of the other elements are there (the excuses, such as race). I feel that might be going on here, which is why I’ve been a bit confused. Also, he doesn’t get or demand all the benefits (because of some shared standards), but there are still lesser benefits, including emotional ones. It’s hard to tell sometimes if it is using or just someone who had some preconcepts but got caught up in things and got genuinely torn. However, I don’t understand the occasional meanness whenever anything is really questioned. I know men often project when they feel guilt. But someone could also feel guilty about being torn, even if what happened was not precalculated? The friendship has still been there all along. What do you suggest in this case? Is there any way to resolve or improve the situation?
Larissa,
Remember — “If you feel like you’re losing, he’s using.”
These people who demonstrate bad behaviour and then ‘try to curb them’ but cannot… they’re showing you their true selves. That’s it. That’s who they are. Of course they get angry when you pull them up on bad behaviour — they’d prefer it if you’d just allow them to do as they please. If they do make a big noise about ‘changing’ or ‘being better’ it’s only because it keeps you hanging around and keeping your attention focused on them. And the so-called ‘change’ is never permanent — they soon revert to their typical ways. It’s just up to you to decide how many times you want to see these repeat performances before you suss out the pattern.
Larissa – I agree with Grizelda. I just want to add a little bit hoping it may help.
I think my story might be somewhat like yours in that I was involved with someone whom I believe didn’t intend or want to be an AC/user. I think he has deep “issues” and was doing his best. HOWEVER. He might as well have intended it because the results were exactly the same. He used me.
I also looked for ways to resolve or “improve the situation”, as you say. It was VERY confusing, because he was so often kind. I tried to be more patient, more understanding, more clear, etc. Maybe you have, too. But you can’t change his meanness or his bad behavior. Only he can. And it sounds like he is showing you very clearly he either will not or cannot!
So, as Grizelda points out, it really is your move. It sounds like you are hurt and feeling used. How much will you allow?
Take care of yourself! In my own case I will say that the more I tolerated, and the longer I struggled with the situation, the worse it got, and the worse I felt about myself. I hope that does not happen to you!
Revolution, CoffeeCat, Gillian, MaryC, Kleo… thanks for the support. I am just having a hard week with NC as the EUAC is trying different methods to open my proverbial door. He knows how to push my buttons, but I’ve held strong and have not broken NC yet.
Grizelda and SallyJane, thanks for your comments. My case might be closer to SallyJane’s in that he may not be doing anything calculated. He is nice most of the time and it doesn’t at all seem calculated, it is I’m sure his real personality. He is also very natural. It is only when he is called out on things that he shows this other side and I have such feelings, then if we let it go, he returns to the nice side. I feel that both sides are the real him. I don’t blame myself or try to be more patient etc. I need a bit more time though. Thanks very much for the responses.
McKenzieM don’t beat yourself up! Its not a nice feeling to realise that your nicer traits have been taken advantage of. However I would hazard a guess that most people who are on here suffer from being too trusting, being kinder to others than they are to us, forgiving easily and seeing the best in others. This really sets you up for a fall as some people just see someone like that as easy to bamboozle, easy to use and easy to make a fool of. Don’t be hard on yourself!
Umi,
Please be careful.
It is one thing to be nice and kind, but it is another to allow yourself to be taken advantage of. I know plenty of kind, compassionate, loving people, who would never have put up with the carp we have tolerated: low self worth.
My doormat days are over!
I was used. For 4 roller coaster years I avoided admitting this truth – this is what kept me in bondage to EUM. Many attempts to cut it off have failed. Then I accepted the fact that I was being used for occasional sex, fluffing his ego, companionship and some stimulating conversation (he seemed to like that I was smart – I’m guessing he didn’t get smart too often given his issues). I was used – it’s very liberating to own up to because now I can carry my weight for showing up for so damn long! Painful and ugly yes. But there is freedom in this. He Continued to use me because I allowed him to because I got something out if it (avoidance, drama, acting out my own intimacy issues). I still hate that this a-hole is the path to deeper self knowledge but there it is. After four horrible years I can finally see a future without the addiction to a bad person defining my life. Did I mention that yes USED me and he doesn’t care. That, friends, is reality. Peace be with everyone recovering from these jerks. My thoughts are with you.
Warriorgrrl — Your comment about what you got out of it hit home to me. In my clearer headed, rational moments, I clearly must have liked the drama, the power I thought I had over him since he always *needed* me, and most definitely avoiding true intimacy. And I know my AC doesn’t care, but what is that small part of you that hopes he’s in pain and pining for you? You know he’s not. This is the last piece I need to get over so I can finally just let of this jerk. GAH!
Yes, WarriorGrrl, I concur with CoffeeCat. We put up with the pain these ACs deliver for as long as we fear facing ourselves. It’s really hard to come clean with ourselves about that. I am in the 3rd or 4th week of really trying to make this about myself, not about the AC. There are days where I almost long for his crappy treatment because I can then spend the rest of the day spinning out his drama, and not spend that time getting real with myself. I was entangled with this MM for almost 3 years, first as a lover, then as a friend (ie, fallback-girl) He is now on his way to being separated, but he ran straight into the arms and the home of another OW. That was my wake-up call. He was never going to be avaialable for me, and each minute I spent getting upset that he wasn’t there for me is a minute wasted. I am so angry; at him, but mostly at myself. I no longer believe that he owes me anything, but I spend every minute of the day angry, which is new territory for me, since I have never owned my anger before in my life; even when previous partners have cheated on me, even when previous partners were emotionally abusive. Thank goodness I am seeing a therapist to help me through this. I hope that you all are getting the support you need.
Amanda, you’ve just described exactly how I’m feeling right now. I’m furious with him and myself and it’s new territory for me too. I suppose it’s better than denial, certainly better then depression, but I’m looking forward to acceptance when I just don’t care anymore.
It’s so important that we as women, who have been devastated by these users and a users remain NC now and forever. We now have the knowledge for future reference. If any of these AC’s ever come near us, we run, hard and fast. I think it’s particularly important to be on guard, we never know when we may be vulnerable again. I remember the first time I found this site, I read “10 Signs That A Guy Just Wants You For Sex”. I knew something was amiss. The article blew my mind. There it was in black and white. I didn’t want to believe it. I would come back periodically and read the articles. Once you know, you can’t go back, it’s not the same. You read others experiences and what Nat has to say and it just reinforces what you already know in your heart, you are being used, and it always comes down to sex.
Oh, how I wish I had read this this time last year. Would’ve saved myself a helluva lot of grief. I was used — hosed is more like it. Didn’t want to believe it but over time couldn’t shake off the feeling of, well, being tread on, over and over. And no, even when you call them out, call them users in plain English, they will deny with a puffed out chest, mock shock and gas lighting. The hypocrisy chaffs my hide. My EUM/AC is a self-righteous blow hard that plays the victim/martyr card. Never takes responsibliy — it’s NOT him but everyone else, the poor (literally) dear. He’s a bully. He’s a user. Not nearly as bright as he credits himself either. Admitted that his ex-wife paid for Everything! He Never made the connection that maybe her doing all the work, cooking, ego stroking and getting squat in return is why she went cold. I had misgivings but thank god he was an inept AC (idiot) and pretty much laid his cards on the table. He used me, yes, but briefly. It never feels good. Not even after time. But whenever I wonder WTF I just remind myself, he used you. It happens but i don’t have to keep letting it happen. At least I had the sense to get out and not marry such a contemptible loser. (-:
“the truth is, they were chosen for these reasons as it made it easier for the other party to extricate themselves further down the line.”
This is very true.
Sometimes as well, I think, you have to collude with that viewpoint for it to work for them. For example, the exEUM always used to say how great I was and what a nice friend I was and how understanding I was and oh dear, what a shame that he just didn’t find me attractive enough to be with.
I ended up feeling like the ugliest person in the whole wide world. It wasn’t just that my ugliness was clearly so terrible that it swamped all my other seemingly BRILLIANT qualities, it was that after a while I cottoned onto the fact that he’d ‘chosen’ me partly because he knew that he could get away with using that excuse. Which, to my twisted logic, meant that I must be super-obviously ugly and/or unappealing, because why else would I be expected to just accept that?
Actually, I now believe that he ‘chose’ me not because I was ugly, but because I’d always THOUGHT of myself as unattractive. In fact, I’m not sure that I didn’t even actually put the excuse in his mouth for him – something along the lines of “I know that I’m perhaps not as attractive as you’d like, but…”
In reality, I’m perfectly normal-looking and of average attractiveness and besides, it isn’t that important. But I suspect that I spent a lot of my life going around giving people the weapons that they could then use to annihilate me.
should add that I was sufficiently attractive to have sex with!
Yoghurt
Reading that made my blood boil. What a disgusting thing to say to someone.
But I suspect that I spent a lot of my life going around giving people the weapons that they could then use to annihilate me.
THIS. When you don’t quite have the stomach for blowing your own head off, you hand someone else the gun.
Hmmm… y’know – I feel bad now for possibly unfairly maligning him. I’m not even sure that he DID say it (it was a long time ago now). Maybe he just didn’t disagree when *I* said it, or maybe I compiled the evidence and the things that he’d said about ex-girlfriends/ other people and used it to fill the great big gaping gap where my lovely functional relationship should’ve been.
Either which way, though, what a cruddy excuse for spending months and months with my head in a paper bag!
Point still stands though, it really does only work if you agree with them on some level. Otherwise you’d just go “What the eff? Get out of my life, sad shallow loser!”
Yoghurt: I had the same experience. The wierd thing for me that as he would say those things (I was ‘too heavy’, my face would ‘look better’ if I lost weight, my clothes weren’t really very nice, yadda, yadda, yadda) I would sit there and think to myself, “Just throw this glass of water in his face and walk out the door”. Yet I never did it. And like you, I was smart, funny, kind, but in the end he said I really didn’t do it for him. And again like you, I was certainly good enough for sex and non-stop listening to him whine about his life/ex/children/finances/mommy issues, etc. It’s funny, I never thought of him so much a user as an abuser. Well…it does rhyme.
Wow… this is one of the best posts. This sums up my 6+ year non-relationship with my ex. He was 5 years younger than I. I’m a single mom, with two… him… a younger man who’s a musician. Exciting, right? NOT!! lol. Especially, when being used by one. It started off casual… then when I wanted to break it off.. he wouldn’t take no for an answer. But, even though he claimed to love me so much, and couldn’t live w/o me, didn’t stop him from going behind my back. Looking back, he’s one of the biggest manipulating liars I’ve ever known. Yes, I was played, big time.
@McKenzieM – I can totally relate! I was also in a bad place when the ex came into my life. (you know… why couldn’t it have been a ‘good’ man walking into our lives at a crappy time!? lol)
Many years of betrayal, lying, manipulating, future-faking. OMG!! I didn’t know my @ss from my elbow, I was spinning! he seemed so sincere with words, but next thing he’d be with someone else! It. was. craazzzyy!!
When you’re in a ‘bad’ place emotionally and mentally, it’s easy to fall for people’s BS, even when really you know it’s not right.
It’s been 4 months NC, he’s txted me twice, trying to throw ‘feeler’s out there, didn’t work. I want nothing to do with him. ever.
It’s so strange, and empowering at the same time, when you realize all along what that relationship was really about… no matter what he said, or did… in the end when something ‘click’s’ and you get it. There’s no turning back. It’s empowering. I’m not mad. I’m so happy to be away from all of that madness. It was sickening.
Demke, you are spot on, that’s how I feel. Yes, I must avoid my ACs (Thanks GOD they left me alone!) and do not come back to madness as you say:) EVER.
Oh I know this so well.He always wanted me to do stuff for him like book tickets, accommodation, meet him at airport, find out stuff for him, come to my office to use internet etc. Did he do anything for me….not much that I can think of. When I asked him to do something himself he became annoyed with me. We spent a lot of time apart last year and if he could not have me physically he would come online wanting to have sex there. He dumped me for someone he works with who, apart from giving him what he wants, is in a position to help him with his work – apparently she is doing things for him that are creating problems and upsetting other people. Once when I implied that he used me he became angry. When I said that she could be of more benefit to him he deleted me out of gchat. He is so obvious.
Meerkat, he sounds like a real AC. At least you got to tell him about himself (although see NML’s recent post about that)…
WOW. This post really stirred up something inside of me. I remember about 6mths into my recovery from the EX EUM. After I had dealt with grief stuff, not good enough stuff, the why her stuff and the fog of all that melted away I was plagued by feelings of being used by him for so very long. My mind went over our relationship chapter by chapter dissecting to figure out what I missed. I mean I thought we were on the same page, he was future faking me brillantly, keeping me right where he wanted me, life was grand. Then slowly that feeling of being USED crept into my soul. It was a sinking hole in my gut along w/deep sadness. I remember one of my girlfriends asking me how I was doing & I said I just feel so used by him and its eating away at me. How could he !! She tried to smooth it over saying she knew he loved me blah,blah. I wasnt buying it. He doesnt know how to love anyone but himself. Period end. This line really stuck out to me:
and they were just putting in hot air and as little as possible to get what they wanted.
Wow, I have come so far ..Thanks Nat for reminding me how far I have come in this journey thanks 2 you & all the posters.
Yea, Kit-Kat, I remember sitting on some steps with a friend, saying I felt like such a fool, sobbing. The truth can be very painful sometimes, but it can be very freeing too.
The last person who tried to use me was my most recent ex: I never was really in love with him, but I was pissed off when we broke up because I could clearly see how he was trying to pull some typical moves that everyone on this website is familiar with; i.e. hanging around my life, leaving crap at my house as an excuse to contact me and emailing, calling and visiting me to try to keep a toehold in to see if we could hook up again or if he could at least get some attention; it was so disappointing watching it slowly surface, noting the moves…so lame.
SO what I have learned from all that sort of attempting-to-use me stuff is that really Natalie is right: if you feel like someone is trying to use you, they are! Lol. Interestingly, noting that, confronting them and having them act like an ass gave me the freedom to defriend them and block them and get on with my ass-clownless life:) I would much rather not be speaking to an ex, than having someone show up with all these secret needs.
So with that said, can we talk about women? In the last two months I have been invited to a wedding from someone I barely know and who never keeps in touch and also, to two baby showers for people who never made any effort to get to know me at all. What do people think about this? The cynic in me feels like I am being hit up for presents or for some shallow proof that someone is popular (i.e. has lots of guests at wedding). I just do not understand why people are so shallow; I would feel weird inviting non friends to something as intimate as my wedding or baby shower…
Those were my thoughts as well: presents and/or an upped guest count. If you don’t feel comfortable going, don’t go. I’ve started doing that recently, and it has been extremely freeing.
DQ, If you happen to be good friends with anyone else going to the events, then maybe they’re just thinking you’d have a good time going along with them. Which is fair enough. But if not, and if you genuinely do not know these people very well at all, then it’s probably just a thinly disguised gift-grab. The two things that cause a superficial user-type of woman to drop out of her girlfriends’ lives completely — getting married and having babies — is going to be a pretty unlikely catalyst to some kind of reciprocal friendship blossoming. It’s almost like they see their New Lives as an upgrade away from their Old Lives when they had to ‘make do’ with hanging around singletons and girlfriends while biding their time for a promotion to husbands and children. It’s sad, it’s short-sighted, and it demonstrates a massive ‘user’ mentality. Because when you get to be 30, 35, 40+, here they come again, these so-called friends — divorced, defeated, lonely, the kids are at ‘his’ for Easter week — looking for a way back into your lives as if they never dumped you in the first place.
Thanks ladies I think that you are right about the gift grabs and upped guests counts etc. I think that I will just send a nice note saying thank you so much but I can’t make it ( in one, I did not even know that she was dating much less engaged so I might sneak that in as a “Wow I feel so out of the loop, I did not even know that you were engaged so a wedding of course is even more exciting!”, I know a bit passive-aggressive but it kind of irks me to be tapped up for a guest count need).
You know it just makes me a bit sad; where are the standards nowadays? I am so happy that at least I have a few handfuls of friends who are real and genuine. I would rather spend my limited dollars taking them out to a meal or for a cocktail, than buying some baby shower gift for a former colleague that never even spoke to me hardly when we were right next door to each other! 🙂
This is so true, I’ve seen this happen many, many times, lots of truth here, but nowhere to really go with it- just a sad truth. You could start an insightful blog about these other aspects of being single.
Dancing same thing happened to me recently. I was invited to a baby shower of a girl who had been good friends with me in the past but can’t be bothered to pick up the phone when I call nor answer friendly emails. So I didnt go nor did I even answer the RSVP. I just don’t have time in my life anymore for non contributors.
I you feel uncomfortable its using in another form.Some people do have hidden agendas,it is odd to invite non friends to a wedding or baby shower.
Dancingqueen – I burst out laughing at your last line about inviting non-friends to such highly personal events! I mean…for real? If it makes you feel any better, I had a close friend that I had to wind up “breaking up” with, because she started acting like a total as*hole. I should have seen it coming when her wedding registry included, among some other gems, a $200 hair dryer. Yes, you read that correctly. In addition to Wedding Planners, I’m starting to think that a lot of people need Wedding Etiquette Advisers too!
@SM: thank you for that suggestion, I think at least one of them deserves not even a non-r.s.v.p. @Lacey, good to know that I am not the only one. @natasha “I should have seen it coming when her wedding registry included, among some other gems, a $200 hair dryer. Yes, you read that correctly”
…..okay, THAT needs to be listed on that meme “1st world problems” i.e.: “I got married and no one got me the 200 dollar hairdryer I requested on my registry list.” seriously. That is what some people in 3rd world countries MAKE in a year lol!
Oh true story! I just thought it was so….ODD. Personally, I’ve had my eye on a very pricey home laser hair removal device (for shame) and I’m thinking now I should just save it for my eventual wedding registry! I mean, my guests would WANT to know that my bikini line was taken care of, you know?
I say this is full knowledge that sometime within the next two-four years I am totally going to see this on some idiot’s wedding registry.
If anyone decides to compile a list of the Top 10 BR Posts, this MUST be on there. Excellent, just excellent. Personally, my Epiphany Relationship involved a returning assclown that decided I was the wrong religion after begging me to take him back. Interestingly enough, I’d had the same religious background for the five years he’d been using me on and off! OY. VEY. For anyone going through this, it is indeed awful, but believe me when I tell you that someone like this is absolutely no loss. There are low blows and then there are…REALLY low blows and that’s what quite a few of these people deal in. If they’ve gone on their merry way, for the love of all that is sacred let them go and count your lucky stars that they’re not around to use you further. And if you’ve cut them off yourself? Well done! 🙂
Why, when they decided to flip through their mental Roladex of people who might be receptive to being approached and some flattery, did they think of you?
OK BRers. Because Nat’s posts are always freakishly timed to co-incide with events going on RIGHT NOW, I would appreciate some of your thoughts on the bloke I’m currently interviewing for the position of boyfriend. Let me detail a list of things that gave me pause, then follow with what I see as his skillset for the job.
OMGWTFBBQ RED FLAG!!!!
Thankfully, nothing to see here. My internal pessimist is insisting I add ‘yet’ on the end of this sentence. OK, OK you win, just shut up and enough with the pessimism already. Yet.
GRRRR MADE ME SALTY. AMBER FLAGS.
OK, so I’ve dated him before. One drunken kiss at an awards night in the 90s, followed by one night out at the movies. Of course I dumped him for being too goddamned nice and decent. Naturally. He is the one who looked ME up, on a visit back here, a year ago. We had a nice, fun, friendly dinner then, and have kept in light touch since via FB, but nothing flirty. Til now.
He ruined a really, really nice (3rd) date by saying “I get shy around you because you’re so funny, smart and attractive, and I wonder what you want with a guy like me”. I barely resisted the compulsion to whip out my phone, log on to BR and type “OMG YOU GUYS BLAH BLAH BLAH ETC”
(OK, to be fair, he’s not conventionally that attractive, and is rather shy. Does that change anything?)
He has just returned from living overseas for 10 years, and is trying at this moment to re-locate himself and his career (he is quite famous in his field overseas, which is related to mine) here to be closer to his ageing parents. He grew up in a country town. Here is the nearest big city. He has old friends in the country town, but pretty much none here in the city. He is resolved to staying here and working hard to make that happen. He has a (beautiful) house in Europe, that he is thinking of hanging on to so that he can
run away at any time(argh pesky internal pessimist!) make some money out of it.He is quite career focused, never married, no kids, has had about 5 significant relationships that seem to have ended OK. He maintains that booty call situations for him end up with HIM the one forming feelings and then being dumped or ending it because of that. This makes me think he might be an EUM, and attracted to EU women. He looked me up remember, after I dumped his ass 15 years ago.
He has
tattoosAC stickers all over him.GREEN LIGHTS. Sigh.
He is so freaking KIND.
He is very gentle and attentive and remembers everything I say (this last attribute is probably not so good, for me that is).
He is totally respectful of the fact I have a child and all that entails. He is not put off by having a child in his life.
He prefers to call me and see me in person than message me. Once I was teary about something (not him!) and sent him a message. He came straight to see me.
He has made trips up to town to see me around my schedule. He stays in a hotel and has never once suggested he either stay at mine or that I go back to the hotel with him.
He loves and respects his parents.
He doesn’t give me butterflies.
He does not future fake.
He is a nice kisser.
________________________________________
OK, so that’s it. It is un-be-fucking-lievably hard not to be doing the whole “Is it this guy? The one in the packaging I don’t like but I’m physically attracted to? The one who is not my type at all?” (yeah, I know, fuck types).
I hate that I can dish out advice but I can’t see WTF is right in front of me. The last thing I want to do is get dickmatised by another jerk. I don’t know, maybe the fact that I’m asking questions is a bad sign.
Any ideas ladies?
I should also say he is 41, and I am 44.
Determined, I think you can date him:) He sounds fine, I cant see any major red flags. But I have to say, I do not usually date guys “without butterflies” that’s why I ended up with ACs! Take it easy and see what he is all about…
– don’t lead
– let him unfold a bit more
– observe to see if actions match words
– don’t sleep with him, yet
– listen to your gut
– stop freaking out
– enjoy
I like this advice. I was just going to say, you asked us for advice, and many people chipped in with great insights. If you are prone to being a fallback girl, you might be prone to wanting to delegate big decisions like this to other people, including the wonderfully empathetic readers here. Take everyone’s advice as their opinion, informed by their experience. Take this opportunity to form your own judgments about the situation. Natalie had a great post recently about listening to your gut. I think that us fallback girls have a very hard time tuning into and trusting our own signals. We want someone else to tell us what to do. It doesn’t sound like this guy wants to move too fast, so use this time to listen to yourself… not to what others tell you to do.
MsDetermined, congratulations on your prospects! Your flag system is very wise.
This one though? “He maintains that booty call situations for him end up with HIM the one forming feelings and then being dumped or ending it because of that.” It’s a red one. A flashing red one. It’s a flashing red carrot-shape dangling on a red string off the end of a flashing red stick. It says “I’m into casual sex. So give me a chance. You never know my angel but casual sex just might make me fall in love with you, heh heh. And my being in love with you will mean I’ll have to leave.”
Um. Anyone else see that?
Put a hold on the green lights a mo. Sometimes green lights = blowing hot.
yeah… good point, grizelda. why would he point that out, anyways… playing the mr. sensitive card while engaging in casual sex. boohoo.
would not be a red flag for me, but amber at best. then again, don’t count on me for pointing out the red flags. i married a guy who i knew had hit his girlfriend :/
Natashya, he said it because we were talking about casual sex. He was saying he didn’t want to engage in it anymore, because somehow he always got the short straw.
But thinking about what Griz said about blowing hot, that could totally be him gift wrapping some words to put a bow around and give me What I’ve Always Wanted.
@ Miss D,
“be him gift wrapping some words to put a bow around and give me What I’ve Always Wanted”
Okay call me a cynic but that was EXACTLY what I thought; and the “poor me” story seems suspect…keep you spidey senses tuned Miss D.
On the flip side, if he is an a-hole, I am looking forward to laughing about your posts on it. You might not benefit from the sitch, but we will:) He He! Just kidding…
I am with Griz on this. I went on full alert when I read that he has admitted to Booty call Relationships. Plural.
I wouldn’t date anyone who didn’t give me butterflies but that is probably where I am going wrong *big sigh*. Good luck though Determined. I would say “proceed with caution.”
Griz I got all warm inside when I read your first line, “Congratulations on your prospects” then instantly was all WAAAAAAAAAAH! when I read (parahrasing) BUT HERE’S WHY YOU CAN’T DATE THAT ASSHOLE.
Hmmn. I see your rather ladyboner killing point. Fuck. FUCK. This is the only guy in the last FIVE YEARS whose cute and interesting origami seemed most unlikely to unfold into an assclown! Are you saying I have to screw that paper up and bin it?
So, if you were me, how would you handle this situation? (apart from with way less swearing and far more wisdom and aplomb).
Victorious, Robin, Natashya and Little Star (how YOU doing girl), thanks for your help.
It’s hard not to be at the point where you think, “Oh come on. There aren’t any good ones out there, and this is the closest thing I’ve seen to it in like, forever.”
Makes me want to order a stiff whisky or 400 at the last chance saloon. If you need me, I’ll be there, propping up the bar. Sniff.
Ms Determined,
You are HILARIOUS. Seriously. Your posts are the highlight of my day. But you do intimidate me and I haven’t even met you…so I kinda think I know what this dude is feeling! I have no expert advice. I would really REALLY love to read a post about what to look for in a date or a bf. I feel like my mind is so full of what NOT to go for, that I can be a bit quick to judge.
I just let this guy go because I wasn’t feeling *sparks* and well…he only works part-time and can’t afford a car. (What’s with all these Peter-Pan types?) I’m feeling super depressed today– like I let a good one go. But did I really? No clue. *Sigh*
Hey Laurie,
Nawwww thanks. But highlight of your day you say? Do you work in a Charles Dickens novel?
I don’t think you need to read a post about what to look for in a date or bf. All you need to do is read everything everyone writes here in the comments about the douchebag assholes they’ve dated, and then go out and look for THE OPPOSITE OF THAT GUY.
Now “the opposite of that guy©” probably isn’t going to announce his arrival with the clouds parting and heavenly light beaming down on him and shit, or sparks between you so fierce they set his hair on fire (hey, your guy has hair! SCORE!), but I think it’s fairly safe to say that your version of that guy will at the very least probably arrive in his own car. So don’t be depressed. And don’t second guess that sexy gut. And pay attention, this is important; don’t point out the blatant hypocrisy of me saying that when I myself have written eleventy million words second guessing everything today. Ahem.
You have to feel some kind of attraction to a dude. Otherwise you’d end up banging everyone you met in the hope you weren’t just destined to be friends. Awks.
If you’re new here (sorry if you aren’t, I haven’t been around that long either) you should start with Nat’s ‘How to spot an assclown’ and other such literary gems, which you can find up there ^^ in the list of posts. If you’ve already done that, but haven’t got her books, they are fucking awesome and should be compulsory reading for every woman in the world over the age of six. Wait, they have swear words in them. Six and a half.
Hey Miss Determined,
I wanted to reply, because I still go back and read your post (about the broken eggs), whenever I feel like breaking NC. So, I’d love to return the favour,as best I can.
Anyway, I am also (tentatively!) thinking about dating again. And so trying to figure out how to do this in as assclown-free a manner as possible.
The main thing I’ve got from this site, is that I (and everyone!) deserves to be treated with care, trust and respect. And so, this is going to be my ultimate yardstick, when deciding whether to continue seeing someone, or not.
To be honest, I’ve also had a bit of a past, and am less that proud of some of my behaviour in previous relationships (many, many years ago)So, although any guys history might make me more cautious, I wouldn’t use it as a reason to end things, in and of itself.
So I guess, what I’m saying, is I don’t really see a reason to end things with your dude, if you like him and he’s treating you well. After all, its his behaviour to you right now, and in the future, that is the important thing. And, trust yourself enough to believe that if this behaviour ever turns shady, you’d be out of there without a backward glance.
And, good luck, whatever you decide to do!
A-men.
BOOM. Thanks Nat. What would we all do without you.
(The world population of cats would double overnight.)
Geekgirl, I was going to offer you a carton of eggs for your wise offering, but goddamit, you deserve a whole freaking chicken for that one. May your eggs always be good ones, with as little chicken shit clinging to them as possible. x
Ms. D,
“Highlight of my day.” Yeah, I guess that’s pretty sad. But it’s worse than working in a Dickens novel–I’m getting my PhD in philosophy (just switched over from social work) 🙂
You’re right. I need to learn to trust myself, and I’m pretty sure I need to fix my broken “flush” handle before I go out with anymore dudes.
Ooooh, sexy AND smart Dr Laurie. But what are you talking about? You did trust your gut and flush! Your handle’s looking pretty cute and reliable there.
I’m not convinced I trust myself either, but I’m in a place where I am no longer AFRAID of dating dudes, after the longest time. I guess it’s all about practice and honing that flush reflex and dates are a good way to do that. In the meantime I can trust myself to show any ACs who pop up along the way my PhD in bitchface.
I’d still hang in there with him Ms Determined! You have things in common, you enjoy his company, and there are good prospects there!
But DO be careful.
Something about him blaming his exes for dumping him when he expressed love for them makes me think… well, he’s lying. Certainly projecting. It’s men, not women, who consider love a weirdly unwanted boundary-busting offense. What woman would kick a man (and I mean a man-like-that, a man who’s actually made something of himself) straight out of her life because… because why?… because he committed the crime of confessing his love for them? And not just once but a few times? Er, no. Sorry but no. That’s not something women do, well not after they’ve been having ongoing sexual relationships with the guys.
How to deal? Hmm. Try to approach that topic again somehow? Challenge him on it a little? Ie, “What, she threw you out of her life because there were feelings involved?! Are you serious?!” kind of thing. He’ll moderate his stance on that and it’d be telling for you to hear where he goes with it. He’s either going to reinforce his claim with some kind of specificity, or he’s going to back down and change his story.
It’s just a frankly bizarre claim to make. It might just be him representing himself a bit too best-like. Especially if he was a few beers in. But it might also be him kicking off some pretty bold manipulation. Ie “Well I DID tell you that I’d have to leave if feelings came into play…” Sigh. And of course he wouldn’t be the first or the last to try that one on.
Fingers firmly crossed!
Yeah Griz, I did think that too. The guy is financially secure, amazing job, has a cute accent (normal here, but exotic there), relatively small amount of baggage, beautiful home…unless there is something dreadfully wrong there, the majority of women aren’t going to be turning that down.
As I’ve said, he’s pretty shy until you get to know him and not exactly conventionally attractive, but not everyone gives a shit about that, especially if he’s decent and healthy.
I really appreciate everything you’ve said Griz. You are one hell of a kick ass lady.
I know this is going to sound crazy, but I think you have to make out with him to find out if you’re attracted to him. I think you need to find out soon.
MsD,
Thanks so much for your openness! I plan to do the same when I have someone I am seeing.
I was uncomfortable with why did he look you up after all those years? Also the booty call, I don’t want anyone that seeks out booty call type situations, that to me is just using a woman. Plus the ” why would you want to be with a guy like me” Amber if not red flag… low self esteem. I had an AC say a similar thing to me, ” look at you, what do you see in me?” is what I got. He has been the bain of my existence, and now almost 3 months NC.
Just saying…..
The guy you were into said, “I get shy around you because you’re so funny, smart and attractive, and I wonder what you want with a guy like me.” It sounds like this guy has only said it once so far, but I’d be careful with this bit and watch that he doesn’t make this the main focus of all of your dates. I had a guy tell me the same thing so many times that I wanted to slap him in the face; he was practically setting himself up for disappointment before I could even show any interest or reject him.
Yes it sounds to me like the forerunner of that old AC chestnut “You deserve better…” but with a bit of extra flattery thrown in.
I don’t believe any man ever feels any woman is too good for him. That’s not the way they’re brought up. If they’re saying that kind of thing, it’s some kind of BS, fake humility to make you feel comfortable.
But then again, I would probably go along with it, if I liked the person, and see how it went.
Hey Mymble,
I owe you an apology. I made a comment to you in the last thread that didn’t sit right. I had your situation wrong in my head. I hope you’re coping with the shitty live-in sitch OK.
I was in that situation once myself. I met the ex AC overseas when in a marriage so DOOMED that I knew as I was signing the papers I’d be doing the same on a Decree Nisi not long after. And it was not fucking fun knowing you were such an asshole. Breaking up with someone, not revealing the existence of another party, continuing to live with them, and knowing you’d broken your vows. At that point I had the secret AC who was thousands of miles away to pine for and prepare for his arrival (in secret from everybody), to make everything feel like it was ‘fate’ and I was getting everything I wanted at last. The truth was I had handled everything very badly indeed, and my sanity was in for a hiding. The price of duplicity. If I met the me that wrought all that upon myself and others tomorrow, I think I’d stab her before she got the chance.
Then I recently heard the ex husband came out of the closet. So I breathed a massive sigh of relief not to be the only one with secrets. I dunno, maybe I fucking turned him! Eeek.
I don’t know if I’m kidding myself even thinking about this new guy. How can someone with such a shitty relationship history ever hope to be in anything resembling normal?
Imma buy me some cats.
Miss Determined
Good luck with New Guy.
It wasnt wrong what you said. Its just that my situation is complicated and it has been a longish marriage – 14 years now.
Essentially I have been mum. The problem is that it gets lonely being mum, as sometimes you start to want someone who gives a shit about your needs.
Ms D
Too early to call, I say keep seeing him. I’m quite sure that many of us have supposed flags – Had casual sex! Got caught up in drama! Hasn’t dated in years! Overlapped a relationship! It doesn’t make us undateable.
He’s not future faking you, no butterflies is a good sign, he’s said a few questionable things, haven’t we all. people generally don’t ditch their overseas families and houses in case they meet someone. My boyfriend is not a
UK citizen so he could bolt, but so could I as most of my family aren’t local and I don’t particularly like this part of the country. My brother settled in a foreign country for good when he met his wife.
Try not to analyse him too much and trust that if it’s good or bad you can handle it. but you can only handle it when it happens. you cannot think through every single possible negative or positive scenario. I went through much the same when I started seeing my boyfriend, I almost wanted a reason to bail.
Don’t have sex too soon.
And a-men again.
Second that A-men! I’ve been going through a wretched bout of insomnia this week and I think instead of counting sheep, I’m going to count possible red flags my past dating history could raise/times I’ve stuck my foot in my mouth in the past month.
Ms. D, I agree to keep seeing him. I have to say, reading, “He is so freaking KIND.” made my night 🙂
One last thing for Ms. D: It’s very, very clear reading what you wrote that you’ve put a TON of work into yourself and having better relationships. One of the biggest, best benefits of this is that we’re able to explore getting to know someone without feeling like we have to bolt like frightened chipmunks if it’s early days and we still need more information. Even someone with a “spotless” relationship history (Please note: I don’t actually know anyone with one.)would still take their time getting to know someone and might have a few “hmmmmm…” moments. You’ve got good judgment and a gut that knows what’s up – trust ’em!
p.s. If you still worry that history precludes people from having a great relationship, I will personally send you an annotated report of my posts when I first found BR, including the one where I was despondent over a dude that lied about volunteering. I was very upset that he wasn’t “into me”. You’re welcome.
Grace, I have a sneaking suspicion I’ll be looking for a reason to run if he turns out to be all that. But I’m a ways from finding out who he really is yet. Your advice is sound, DON’T OVERTHINK. And trust that I’ll do right by me (this is the part I have to really keep an eye on. Accompanied by appropriately arched eyebrow).
Sounds like you have a good thing going there. I think you and Tink give us all hope. No pressure on you guys though 😉
Determined,
Go for it! Don’t over think!
Agree agree agree Sometimes we are looking for an excuse to run on the first guy we date after a bad experience. As long as you are enjoying his company, don’t think too much, have fun and let it ride. I met my current man only two months after my relationship with my Narc ended. Beside Br he was also a factor in my holding strong against the Narc hoovering. Thinga were so smooth with him and it wasn’t hard or work. I just had to get use to lack of drama. So glad I gave him every benefit of the doubt. 🙂
Determined, never married is a flag for me. Never married=commitment issues. Every thinks actor George Clooney is so great, too. Ha! Major EU, waste of time for women(though he did marry once very young). If you’re looking for marriage or a long-term relationship, you are not going to get it from this guy.
Same thing I thought, Runner! Also, 10 years overseas and nothing/nobody significant left behind! Just upped and went! In need of a FBG now in the new environment, flipped through his address book to see where to fish for some goodies. I don’t want to rain here, Ms D, but this does not look like and available guy. I side with those that remind you that you have a say here too, you have the power to determine what you part is, trust your judgement and the fact that you already have the benefit of a sound BR-education.
I think in most cases, that’s true.
But if Wikipedia is correct, Warren Beatty wasn’t married until his mid 50s! So then it’s a question of, are you sure you want to wait THAT long for the off-chance that the guy you’re into will finally want to marry you? Probably not!
I have two friends who got married and they are in their 50’s. Both very happy. One of their husbands was divorced for 20 years and played the field and he is the most devoted husband ever. He was ready when he met her and fell head over heels. They just get along so well and have a blast together.
Never married = selfish and previous casual relationships/FB = likes to play the field. Hope this doesn’t rain on your parade as we say in the UK but I’d be very careful. I once had a guy tell me he got butterflies around me but that was because he was a fake and a bullshitter to boot. His butterflies were his gut wondering when he would be bust which I did!
Ms D, feisty
I knew a man in his early forties who was an international womaniser and proud of it, met a single mother older than him, married her, adopted her daughter and had two more children with her. Last I heard they are still married.
Of course, that doesn’t mean the same will happen for you but neither do you know that it will end badly.
Unless you are both virgins in your twenties everyone has some fallout and I’m afraid it does tend to accumulate as we get older. if we believe we can change and grow, we have to believe men can too. It’s sexist to say otherwise.
Of course, we don’t give space to no hopers but you don’t know enough yet to tell.
You have to bring to this optimism and good intentions. Yes, you may be disappointed and even hurt but there is no way to progress a relationship without risk. we are aiming for sensible risk rather than a stupid one and so far so good I think.
I agree, ladies – saying never married=selfish…well that sounds like a death sentence!
I’m 30 in April, never married, only had 1 serious relationship which only lasted 1 year 3months – other things were mostly casual or very short term (actually none of my “relationships” ever crosses the term of 3months lately). Does that look good on the paper? No. Does that make me unsuitable for a normal relationship? Don’t think so. Previous marriage doesn’t equal being able to commit, as we can see from numerous stories about MMs in here.
Feistywoman and Ms D — I second Grace on this. I know many people who didn’t marry until late in life –including my own parents! — and went on to have stable, happy marriages. Six couples I can think of off the top of my head where one or both parties married for the first time between 38 and 56. It isn’t the norm, but I always supposed that it is not that unusual among folks who feel no particular economic or social pressure to marry. I’d say keep your eyes open, but no need to make a hard and fast rule about this.
I disagree that never-married equals selfish. I’m 39, never married. Maybe I’m selfish, too. lol. I’ve only been in a few long term relationships, but one was for 7 years (he then died). I was also only dating women in my 20s, before there was such a thing as legal same-sex marriage. It would be odd if this man has never had 2+ year long-term relationships, but to call him selfish seems like quick judgment.
Admittedly there are always exceptions to the rule. My greatest obsession finally married (not me,though I’m glad today we didn’t!)and I can attest from the wife’s own mouth (I knew her from a job), that they are not happy and that he is still the same pot-smoking EUM that he was 30 years ago. They met at the same job she and i worked at (I no longer worked there),she was married and they started an affair. She left her husband, they moved in together,and then she got him to do what I had been trying to get him to do for 7 years. She can have him, I know I’m not missing out on anything. Those exceptions aren’t all they’re cracked up to be sometimes.
I was married for less than a year which to me is effectively the same as “never married”. In fact, it’s worse because it highlights how utterly clueless I was. At least someone who was never married can argue that they at least understood marriage is a big commitment that they weren’t read to make.
By this logic, all the women on BR over x years old who haven’t been married, and those of us who had very short marriages, or bad marriages are on the relationship scrapheap.
That person who has had only one or two serious relationships of over two years including a marriage, where both parties mutually agreed for only mature reasons to split, who committed no relationship “sins” (no cheating, overlapping, EU in themselves or their partners, no casual sex, no using, no being used, no on and off, no online relationships, no go-nowhere LDRs) simply doesn’t exist in this day and age once you’re over the age of, I don’t know 25.
Ultimately, statistics and what’s “normal” are only going to go so far in helping you make the decision on the person in front of you. There is no shortcut to avoid putting in the time and effort to knowing them and also revealing yourself so they can know you. If there was, I would have found it!
No, it doesn’t mean that someone who has been married multiple times with x no. of babymommas is a good bet, but to me “never married” falls well within the range of acceptability. It’s worth discussing, to get a picture of who they were and how they’ve grown over time, how self aware they are and what their attitude is to relationships. “I didn’t marry because I don’t believe in monogamy” would be useful to know. But I wouldn’t instantly write him off.
Merely saying that never married with men = selfish based on my experience of never married men. Had a man his 40’s admit to me he was too selfish and that was one of the reasons he never married and never would. I take a practical viewpoint on this and there is no way I would want to get involved with an ex player/FWB man. Life is to short to be wondering when the shoe falls off with a man like that or looking over your shoulder. Maybe because I am older I have seen more of life but I still wonder why a man new to an area wants to have a relationship rather than getting himself integrated into a new society and make friends first/establish hobbies etc. The fact that a man wants to have a relationship as his sole source of happiness would make me run a mile.
I am not sure that is entirely fair Feisty. We do not know that this man isn’t making all kinds of other efforts to make new friends as well as embarking on a relationship with our beloved Ms D. Unless I have missed a post outlining that in which case I apologise.
I do think some caution is called for, but seriously, at our age, every guy is going to have some kind of baggage or something about them that causes a properly Edjukaytid BR woman like ourselves to tread carefully.
I am thinking about what Natalie says about us “slowing our roll” and I honestly believe that if MS D, or any of us, do that and use our spidey senses, then we should escape relatively unscathed. That isn’t to say that we are suddenly immune from AC/EUM Scumoftheearth Tosspots. Just that we can identify them when they unfold. And we know that They Just Aren’t That Special.
Yeah, Natalie. I’ve been a soft target before. A lot of my life actually. Even yesterday, a homeless dude approached me asking for money, and I gave him 3 bucks. Do I know if he was legit? No. But what’s 3 bucks to me, especially if he IS starving? I’m still a softie, but I’m not stupid.
I am definitely a “benefit-of-the-doubt”er. Hands down. I don’t think that it’s a bad thing, per se, but it just needs to have some strict boundaries around it. Which I’ve put up. My nature, oddly enough even after all of my comments posted here, is to believe the best in people. Like I said, my aim is to be hopeful, but not stupid.
Here’s what works for me: if I’m not sure whether I’m being used or not, and in keeping with my nature of trying to see the best in people, I have two best friends: Time and Discernment. My third best friend is Polite Neutrality, but she comes to the party later.
Time and Discernment help me to observe and, if need be, suss out a person’s motives over time before I do anything for them that requires real sacrifice. Polite Neutrality is when I’m unsure of their motives, but leaning toward the feeling that they may not be as “nice” as they seem. I’m still not rude (unless backed into a corner, in which case IT’s ON) but I won’t give them anything. It’s sort of a polite, “Hi, how are the kids?” without offering them money or a ride to the airport. Am I making sense? Probably not, but maybe someone out there gets it.
Bottom line: I have lived my life on each side of the pendulum swing (stupidly and blindly loyal vs. fiercely untrusting) and I want to strike a balance if I can.
wow this hit me rite in gut an i really feel like my prayers led me to this site i never thought that someone i accepted an loved wuld ever tak advantag or use me but i let it happen i was so afraid to let go an i hav to admit i havent completly let go an its sad becaus lov is sumthing u basically dont hav any control over if u lov sum1 that s@@t never fades at the sam time u hav to lov u mor if u kno that its not changn im stil praying my way threw its hard but that relationship was a hot mess i was emotionally ruined physically wore out an jus not happy i admit i was used an mislead so many times but im letting it go an moving forward
This is exactly what happened to me. I now believe I was targeted, after meeting the assclown, when I was newly widowed. I was always someone who “believed the best” in people. Future faking, for me is the hardest thing to get over. I endured it for a year. I never understood why, when I was ready to move on, there were promises of the moon and stars, that never happened, that were completely unnecessary. I actually went to a therapist with him once. I asked about our 7 year age difference (me, being older) He said “that’s just the way it is.” Even the therapist didn’t think it was a big deal. (a fat lot of good she did him!)I now think he didn’t want to be with me for that and along with the whole, “I don’t know what I want.” How the hell does it take a year to figure that out? Unless you’re just using someone, after I told the EUM that I wanted to move on. Going no contact wasn’t hard after him telling me his head was “efed up.” That was Christmas Eve. After NC for 13 weeks he texts me on Valentines Eve, saying he never lied to me. Say What? I didn’t respond. Reminding me of “He who doth protest too much.” The hardest thing is knowing he used me. Harder still, that he led me down the Primrose Path, and I blindly followed. Georgia, I know how painful it is, but don’t contact him. These EUM assclowns are never going to be anything but frogs. Congratulate yourself on 20 days. I can tell you it does get easier. Believe me, keeping your dignity intact is way better than texting an assclown who could give a flying F about you. You are worth more. Don’t waste anymore time texting, emailing, whatever. I know that having the drama-free life I have now, is a hell of a lot better than constantly checking the phone or email for meaningless messages that go nowhere.
Like Nat says, look at their actions. What did your ex ever do for you besides words and no actions? If he ever did love you he would have done something about it. Believe me. You dodged a bullet. Now that we are wondering why these idiots texted us on Valentines Day, who bets that these assclowns have a bit too much to drink and text us on St. Patrick’s Day? Clovers will fly out of my butt before I ever contact the ex assclown again. FLUSH!
Thanks I needed to hear that. LOL clovers flying out of your butt!
This is perfect! I had the ex after 3 almost 4 yrears contact me. He realized his wrong doings, and wanted to start over, we are 2,000 miles apart now, we have both moved since we broke up. He wanted to buy me a house, but said he had ” nothing to offer” which meant be my house mate and caretaker, but don’t expect much else, the house was my payment. I said nothing worked before, why is it going to work now? I haven’t heard from him since.
My mother did it all the time “see the best in the other person” she would never listen to me, when I had relationship problems and almost appeared to shame me if I didn’t go along with the program. Like I was a second class citizen.
The last AC, that I have been no contact for over two months, prior to me saying enough was enough, said he had to get a tooth removed and it was going to cost $1500. Well he didn’t get a penny from me, but I also realized that was the rent that he was behind on his shop. I never confronted him on it, I played stupid, but I did hear what a bad girlfriend I was that I didn’t care about his tooth. It all tires me just writing about it.
Ah Emerldeyez — love the way you connected the dots on that $1500 question. A simple tooth extraction costs around $200. So he’s lucky you didn’t give him the money for that, because you could have insisted that you wanted your money’s worth and nothing less than 7 great big gaping gum-holes would do!
sum1 once told me that pain is temporAry an change is necessary
This is my first time commenting but I read every post. Your site gave me the strength to end a one sided relationship “casual relationship” that lasted almost a year and only benefited one person-not me. I implemented NC with my EUM who made it clear that he didn’t want to be in a relationship with me and didn’t want to settle(his words). When he said those words it hit home hard and fast. (Ladies always listen to what the men in your life say to you cause they will tell you the truth…however only when you’re strong will you hear clearly). That night I knew things had to end. After almost three weeks of NC that fool showed up on my door step Valentines day night and that’s exactly where he stayed for about 10 minutes ringing my bell. Nat because of your site and the commenters I was able to ignore my buzzer and go back to bed with a smile. #loser
He didn’t want to “settle!” That’s horrible! What a creep!
This post finally showed me the truth that I was used. No more second guessing needed. No more tossing and turning over it thank God. What is sad though is that I used him too because we’re both EU’s from past hurts from very long term marriages. I just don’t have the energy for all this relationship drama anymore at my age. I really get a lot from this site and thank you Nat and all for your valuable input.
I have gone through this with different types of people and once enough was enough I smartened up and listened to how I felt and what my gut was telling me and cut people out of my life. I no longer care that others may think I am being harsh and these men treated me poorly but are not bad people. Donating to charities etc. does nothing for your character or make you a good person. How you treat the people close to you does…
This post really rings true. A lot of posts/relationship sites tell us to lower our standards (read boundaries), give men the benefit of the doubt. No more. I fully understand that the AC used me for attention: I now understand that this is what he is all about; wish all the wise womyn in our circle woulda bothered to give a damn about me enough to clue me in; I have certainly warned other potential victims in his gunsights. As soon as I find tgat I am being used, it’s sayonara; the only ex I will willingly speak to is the one I was married to as we are truly friends. The rest are ignored no matter how much they want to stay in touch.
Sometimes we know the truth cause you feel so bad when your aiding and assisting.I surely felt it the two times he asked to borrow money and never Back. I was helping him buy his car and the next day he said he was sick with the flu and working on paying me back when he got well,he was sick alright,turned out within the week of him staying close to me to get his goal accomplished he had gave me an std and didn’t tell me,I had found out a week after his flu story and when I asked him about it he got mad and so that was the reason I didn’t get my money back.He was so angry at me for accusing him the only thing he had to say to me was Gm every morn as usual and wyd in the evenings. I being the backwards fallback girl fell for it and did Nc which really that was what he was looking forward to not hearing from me so it worked out great for him.That was the second time within the toxic situation,I ever loaned him money,3 times he asked and I just gave it and felt really stupid. I been thinking about this for the longest why do he feel that its okay to do this to me? I know cause I allowed it to happen.I was just thinking today that he’s probably with one of the 3 or 4 baby mothers treating them like queens,although I have heard stories but I just think he never took money from them. I feel so used,this is the hardest part to get over and today even before reading this post I swear I was out with my baby and thinking and feeling hurt and picturing him and one of his women being happy even vacationing somewhere maybe and I got a lil angry but mostly hurt.He and I have been over before it started.He had disappeared for a mth while I was pregnant.I lost the baby,he came back said he thought I was gone do something stupid so he left when in reality,I figured I got pregnant I was gone have the baby, he didn’t stick around to find out anyway but he came back asked me for a relationship I told him no. That was 2 yrs ago,so when I was ready he kept saying we were in progress only if I stop nagging him about him taking my car til the next day or hounding him about other women and what man don’t cheat?its in their nature is what he said to me,and I shouldn’t worry cause he came to me every night. God how dumb of me he ate food here never bought groceries half put gas in my car the list goes on As son as things started looking up the games and shenanigans got worse,and all I can replay in my mind the times he said he loved me and if we have problems I can’t just keep walking away.then i thought about how he said he went against his mom to be with me when she was so angry at me for bringing his close at 4am that he risk things for me and everyone knows he loves me and why I don’t see don’t see.Also that many women were mad cause he is with me all the time and they used to do anything for him but he love me.Its all done he ended it,I’m Nc because the last lie hurt so much we didn’t talk for 3 days which again something he wanted.So when he was ready to talk I’m not I’m way too embarrassed and hurt.I want to get myself back be happy again.This was truly how I was feeling before I even read this post.sorry for the long stories and thanks Nat.
I have this ex who contacts me after every few years and stalks and tracks my movements me on social networks. We broke up in 1997! and even then in my very sick state, I knew that this guy was serious sociopath danger! Once in a while, I get friend requests from him on this site or other. I am just silent nowadays. Six years ago, I accepted one of his requests and it was like a replay of our old nasty “relationship” days, I was so angry that I had allowed it to happen, that I believed he might have changed; and he hadn’t. Now I am getting over a break-up with this guy who was showing signs of aggression should he not get what he wanted from me, and I am still angry that I keep getting involved with these creeps. Sometime it’s like Two steps forward and another three back! I will console my self that I got to see the games that the latest guy was up to. I think know a sense of awareness I am not so shocked when I realize. I need to find different kind of guys to date.
I feel sooo happy for each of you. I’m naming names as they appear now as I’m posting: Umi, AngelFace, Georgia, McKenzieM, Gillian, Kleo, Rev, Crstalj, Lucky_Charms, Emerldeyez, Stace, Tired Out, Stacy5, Miskwa, Lacy and Wizzy. Every one of you are at different points in enlightenment, but not one of you has appeared to be regretful to the point of losing resolve and going back into the fire. It is early am and I should have been asleep for hours already, but I just wanted to check in before going to bed on which is now Saturday am. I have such a warm feeling in my heart for all of you. The whole tone of this blog is changing as more and more of us are getting smarter and flushing the scumb bags and toxic individuals from our lives. It’s great. Keep it up everyone. It is so WORTH IT, putting YOU first.
Thanks, Tinkerbell!
By the way, I should have listened to you in the other post about following your gut. I went out with Jim and it was so awkward. I mean, the outing was fine and everything. He’s such a nice guy, but it was awkward to ME because I felt so EU. I was like, “This is exactly what Tinkerbell was talking about!!!” hahah So, I have decided not to waste his time or mine and continue to work on myself. I don’t think I’m going to be ready to date again anytime soon.
Sleep Well, Tink. Like you I go to BR, when I get home. Sleep Well and hold tight. We are no longer on the Island Of Lost Boys.
Thanks Tinkerbell hugs and kisses!!!
Natalie, another wonderful article, thank you. IT was SO painful to read, I even cried, because I recognise myself:( YES, both my ACs used me for sex, I was in booty-call “relationship”, only one thing that make me proud, that I NEVER showed them that I CARE OR HAVE FEELING FOR THEM! They even said to me: “Oh, I felt used”…and my response was: “Common, I was not born yesterday, we are using each other!” But inside I felt HORRIBLE, I am so glad I am NC with both ACs. I am free of dating till summer, now it is only ME – my Meet UP groups and gym.
This article should be run every year the day before Valentine’s day! I heard from two guys who were serious Ass Clown. The one who is now married I found easy to ignore. But the other one …..got me going for a while because I did not recognize his passive agressive manner in playing with my vulnerabilities. He pretended to want a relationship. When I told him I wanted him to get a STD test he said he just wanted to be friends. Now that was almost embarassing but it was his game to how far he could take me into his web of deceit. The answer is NC in the future. He was stroking his ego to play my vulnerability. Perfect timing for me to read this. I have stopped beating myself up for being human!
I only really figured out I had been used after I split with the AC. The whole time we were together the prevailing story was that I was too sensitive and that he really liked me but I had trust issues.
My self-esteem was still so low I was like, what could he possibly be using me for? To prove that it wasn’t sex, he made a big deal out of being with me even though we weren’t sleeping together, and I felt like I couldn’t accuse him of it being about sex. At the same time, I had this wonky idea that if I was being used for sex, that must mean I was attractive enough to be considered a sex object.
Once I finally made sense of the behaviours that had confused me (recognizing them here on BR) I realized I’d been played and was incredulous and angry. But being angry at the reality of being used was way better than being sad I couldn’t make it work with him or down on myself for not measuring up; it was a stage in healing and learning that it felt bad because yes, someone had really been taking advantage.
I don’t know which one is worse: people who are related to you trying to use you or people who we choose to associate with ourselves. Which one is more veiled and audacious? My sister, who is quite older than me and we never got along due to many reasons, asked for a huge favor recently. I live in the states and the rest of the family lives oceans away. The favor is an illegal act in USA but is the basis for lucrative business, mainly allowing pregnant non-citizens to gain birthright for their newborn. I haven’t spoken with my sister for 3 years before she called and emailed me to ask if I can arrange a doctor and a room to stay here because she is pregnant and she want her child to have an American passport. Couple weeks before this my mom told me my sister is getting married and I should congratulate her. I was not invited to the wedding and did not hear this big news directly from her. Of course I sent a congratulations message. I didn’t even know she was pregnant. I was in shock. I said no and the whole family turned against me. My mom accused me of being selfish and threatened to disown me. My sister followed up with a nasty email filled with fear mongering, particularly about how angry my father was due to my descision. The thing is, I’m way past beyond the age of being scared by the thought of an angry father. Then the silent treatment started. My mom even defriended me on FB. How immature is that? My sister has a long history of being a user in small ways- only contacting when she needs things to be shipped from US or when she wants me to buy something for her to bring along during my home visits. I never imagined such transparent and disrespectful act though. I did have boyfriends who took advantage of my generosity before but none hurt this much. I don’t know what to do or how to act if I choose to visit my family again.
Mittens, I don’t know how families put one of their members into such terrible spots. But I do know this — not sure if it’ll chime with you, but it may chime with someone here who’s been used up by their family, so here goes.
All dysfunctional families have one key adult individual in them who has managed to rise up out of the mire of whatever set of problems is endemic in that family — whether it’s persistent criminal/antisocial behaviour, rejection of education and social mores, lifelong dependence on the vagaries of other people’s money, random multiple pregnancies and feral children, addictions, violence, vendettas, you-name-it. One way or the other there’s a chaotic tableau of permanently fractious relationships with stand-up fights, side-taking and cut-offs and all that kind of interpersonal bullshit.
Anyway, ONE adult rises up and away from all that somehow (usually it’s the only one who took his/her education seriously) and becomes the only fully functioning adult in the family sea. This person is invariably given the role of being the only life preserver amidst two dozen grasping people drowning in their own failures. This family life preserver has a job and a car, pays the bills on time and stays out of jail, so they automatically become deemed the only problem solver for everyone else in the damn family. Need bailing out of jail again? Need picking up at 3am when you’re found passed out in the toilet of some dive bar? Need money, need a letter writing to the authorities, need a broken nose re-setting, need new school shoes for your nine kids, need a problem to ‘disappear’, need to deal with a repossession order AND a child support court order, need a complaining neighbour ‘spoken to’? The family life preserver’s phone number is the one they all have in their mobiles for exactly that purpose. And if the family life preserver ever refuses a crazy request, or god forbid ever tries to move away, they pile on like a ton of bricks. Because they have absolutely no idea of boundaries or when enough is enough.
I don’t know what your historical family situation is, Mittens, and hopefully you’re not the family life preserver. But they are overlooking your right of refusal to commit an offense. In fact they’re coercing you in every way they can. Which kind of has ‘dysfunctional’ stamped on it.
Wow Grizelda
You described my life and the woman I used to be. I had been used in so many ways by so many over a very long period of time that I did not know there was any other way to be. When I finally woke up there was no turning back. I discovered boundaries and the importance of putting being “me first”. I ruffled many feathers and experienced the painful realisation that they did not care about me. they care about what I could do for them and were frustrated that I was messing with that programme.
That realisation made it easier for me to go NC with near relatives, cut of “friends” who used and gave little or nothing, re evaluated my friendship group and finally work out what I value in myself and in relationship.
I want to thank you, Natalie and all the people who post on this site as you all remind me of where I have been, how far I have come and that with support, I can face the truth and begin make postive choices.
Glad to be of service, Sophia!
This isn’t to be confused with helping family. Everyone needs to help family.
But one of my oldest and dearest friends is now an inner city high school teacher in a ‘challenging’ area of a major American city. She told me all about this, because sometimes the only functioning individual in chaotic dysfunctional families are her pupils — the juniors and seniors in high school trying to finish their diplomas but who are constantly called away to deal with and attend to their uncles’ bail hearings, trouble from their mothers’ johns who keep harassing them, their brothers’ gang activity, their sisters’ pregnancy scans, and so on. These kids are ALREADY the family life preserver yet they’re determined to do right by themselves and finish high school come hell or high water.
So I’m just passing it along.
Dear Grizelda,
Thanks a lot for the insightful post. You are right about how few individuals manage to rise up from the dysfunction in problem ridden families and they constantly face the dilemma of helping versus enabling. I can’t say I’m a life preserver of the family, I don’t have that much power or money to solve their problems. I am, however aware of the personality disorders of several family members and had to escape to US to study to run away from it (age 17). I was raised in a thick fog of mother’s denial, sisters narcissistic behavior and father’s enabling of the two. I swear if I have any sanity I owe it to being so far away. Because it was my descision to stay here with no financial help- I had to support myself during college, paid for all expenses. Worked in construction, nursing homes and in a factory line. I’m a petite woman btw but I was determined to never complain about my uncomfortable situation to family members. In fact my family would be embarrassed if they had to do any of these jobs (it’s stupid but its social class and culture related). Because of financial independence I could say NO. My sisters had everything paid for including cars, homes etc. So the rest of the family wouldn’t want to decline a request because all the help comes with tight strings attached with them. It would have consequences. I’m in my 30s now, they can’t affect me much besides emotional abuse. The kids you mentioned have so much tougher, I admire anyone who can rise above the deep dark hole that keeps on sucking them in.
A comment from a different angle: I have also been that younger co-worker who hits on an older colleague. Just before I left to come out east, over six years ago, I hit on an older guy at work. I figured, he knows I’m leaving, so he knows what he’s getting into if he hangs out with me. To be honest, I also thought, he’s GOT to know that I would never be with him as a long-term girlfriend, for a number of reasons – too old, and nothing important in common being the main ones. So we ‘hung out’ for two or three months, enough time for me to spend a lot of time at his place, cooking dinners with him, and even rag on him for habits I didn’t like as if I was his gf.
When I left he helped me move and met my family and I remember thinking, wow, that’s pretty nice of him, probably too nice, and I kind of wish he wasn’t meeting my family but we’re good friends, right, so no biggie.
I was totally not expecting it when he came out to the coast and had flowers and chocolates waiting for me in his hotel room. I treated it like a friendly visit, as if he ‘should have known’ we were done, and while snacking on chocolate-covered strawberries told him about the new dates I’d been on since I moved.
I have to say he never called me on it, and is still a FB friend and generally responds if I message him, which is hardly ever. I don’t know if he felt used, was hurt, etc or shrugged it off.
Whenever I think about him and our time together, I know it’s a mistake I made when I didn’t think through the potential consequences. IF he was hurt then yes, I would regret that.
I remember this now when I am thinking about ACs. User/used-person dynamic isn’t necessarily two opposing strong feelings, one of “I really want to use you” and the other “I really want a relationship.” It’s more “I don’t care much at all where this goes – hey, would you do this for me?”/”I care a lot – sure, I’ll do that for you”.
I’d like to think that if my former co-worker/sort-of-boyfriend had said he was super into me I would have cut things off.
I don’t know if this is a helpful contribution to this discussion. I think in BR terms I was EU, not an AC, because I didn’t pursue anything while knowing the guy was into me as more than casual. But sometimes I wonder if I just got away with it because he didn’t have great boundaries.
Anyway, like I said, not sure if this is a helpful contribution but this post did make me think of him, and FWIW I learned from the strawberry incident (and from being used in my turn by subsequent ACs): there’s no such thing as a casual relationship. Hmm. I began this post by saying that I don’t feel that bad about it, but now that I’ve written it out, I deleted that part – I actually do regret my insensitivity.
Mind you, it doesn’t mean I think I owe him anything now. It just means I know it would have been more honorable and respectful to leave him alone in the first place.
“User/used-person dynamic isn’t necessarily two opposing strong feelings, one of “I really want to use you” and the other “I really want a relationship.” It’s more “I don’t care much at all where this goes – hey, would you do this for me?”/”I care a lot – sure, I’ll do that for you”.”
I agree with this a lot. Although it’d be nice to split the world into goodies and baddies and to work on the principle that they know exactly what they’re doing, mostly they don’t. Some, like the really really evil PUA ones do, but most don’t.
I think that a side-effect of having low self-esteem is that you a) feel justified in doing whatever you have to to boost it (It hurts. Who’s going to begrudge you painkillers?) and b)you can’t imagine that YOU can ever really have that much impact on other people’s feelings.
Now that son’s dad has morphed into a relatively normal human being and has, for the last year or so, been savvy enough to see that he really wasn’t very nice and it’s had a massive impact on me, his main reaction has been bewilderment. His explanation has basically been “but I wasn’t even thinking about you at all” (ouch. I don’t want to be someone that people don’t think about). Closely followed by “why did you care when I was obviously just a massive d!ckhead?”
It isn’t an excuse, there is no excuse for being careless with other people’s emotions. But neither is there much excuse for putting the precious glass vase that is your emotional health into the hands of someone with a proven track record of throwing whatever they’re holding – inc their own health, their time management, their manners and their logical thought processes – up against a wall.
I don’t know maybe he could point the finger back at me and say I used him after all I stayed around or came back after a break. It was a casual relationship.
He could say I used him to go to nice restaurants, to see concerts, plays etc. things I couldn’t afford though I did my best to contribute where I could. To go away to nice places again I wouldn’t be able to afford it.
To him though I can see it was all about sex and a listening ear while he talked on and on and on and on about himself.
I think he thought I would be flattered to be seen with him a minor celebrity and flattered he would chose me.
I think I have to agree with Yogurt all what I was thinking about myself too ugly not good enough for a real relationship etc are all points he could hone in on and use to his advantage.
I also taught him that he could treat me like a piece of crap and use me becuase I was such a doormat. So of course his using wasn’t going to stop because I stil saying it was okay.
I don’t know I am confused lately as it all spins around in my head.
Hi Ms Determined,
You’re razor sharp. You’ve pegged the amber flags. Watch them closely.
Not sure if the kissing mentioned is reference to yr memory of this from previous dating or a bit of a snog recently? If you haven’t gotten that far yet in the recent encounter, this goes in yr favour, as you retain the ability to more easily keep him in the platonic friend only zone if you choose to & appropriate, while you observe & make up yr mind about him, as his behaviour unfolds. No matter if it’s a recent reference though.
My suggestion for a way forward is the same on both counts
What’s clear, is that yr not sure about this guy & u see amber flags. I agree there ARE Amber flags here around his recent interest in u coinciding with moving to yr area & his lack of friends close by.
The comment about him being shy around you & why to me is a line ball call. He may have been being genuine (I first read that this way(, or on the other hand, just stroking yr ego (we all know guys who operate like this). Either way, time will tell.
Hence, to use Nat’s words, I’d suggest slowing yr roll, & not taking anything to the next level until you feel more confident that the amber flags wont become raging bonfires.
Hope that helps a bit. Cheers. T 🙂
Thanks Teach. You’re a doll.
Yeah, we’ve ‘pashed on’ (Aussie reference) a couple of times. I figured it couldn’t do much harm. And it was incredibly nice, because we were in a standoff about it happening. I could see he was really nervous about doing it, but I wasn’t going to be the one to make it happen (as much as I wanted to). But before I jumped into a cab at the end of the third date he took me in his arms in a gentle but firm way and kissed me softly without any nervousness at all…fuck, Mills and Boon are going to come after me for copyright violation. Anyway, you get the idea.
I’m super envious of anyone who can keep what they’re thinking a secret while they’re reserving judgement. Unfortunately my poker face is shit.
xx
I got a lot from yr post in this thread Rev. It was profound & really hit home. U r definately a woman after my own heart, & have a way with words too! Very succinct.
Thankyou. 🙂
I’m still struggling w this issue. No-one is using me NOW (yeah right, as if, lol) but like many, I have been used in the past & the scars are yet to heal. Being unwell of course, I’m also quite isolated (to some degree), which doesn’t help. Being unwell also means time on my hands to ruminate. I make efforts to distract myself, or to call a friend if poss, but I don’t wish to buden ppl (most of my friends wrk & have partners &/or families) & most I’ve found desert ship when ppl go through hard times such as I am now. This has stung a little but at least I know where I stand.
Frankly, I feel pretty shite on the whole being used issue. I really liked Magnolia’s post a ways back delinating being having social capitol (which of course, others can use us for) & something else. Possibly it was something to do with self esteem & being liked for ourselves? I cant quite recall. (Magnolia not sure if you recall this?) I used to have a lot of hangers on. They harkened bk to my years as a professional musician. Ppl always want to know you when they think you’re a ‘someone’. When I walked away frm tht world & later (shock horror) revealed myself to have feet of mere clay it was a diff story. I don’t feel resentful so much, just hurt.
I’ve realised I’m thinking quite negative & cynical thoughts tonight. I also feel decidedly depressed. There are reasons for this & I am getting help but everything feels so unrelenting.
I’m having difficulties with one friend in my current circle related to this topic. It’s the same friend I posted abt many mths bk. I try not to initiate contact too much with her these as she does my head in a bit. She blew very hot as a new friend in my area & I helped her ENORMOUSLY in the past at a critical time when she needed this but now, she acts all weird as if in my own time of need, I’m imposing upon her. I’ve been observing her more & more. I think she is EU & has codependency issues. I realise no-one’s perfect but have confronted her a cpl of times & now stay in touch but much less so. Due to my level of isolation caused by physical disability & her living close by, somehow I seem to end up back in touch. I have no other real friends in the outer suburban area where I live (there have been two – they both eventually moved away. A third still lives 20 mins away but is too busy with full time care of her young grandkids now to have the time or ability to do anything together anymore as I too, due to physical illness am not good at planning ahead which she definately needs).
I’m from the inner city. I do try to make friends here by attending local groups as appropriate etc but nothing much has stuck except as mentioned, even after 10 yrs here now.
Prior to getting sick a couple of yrs bk, this was never an issue. I worked near the inner city & toured visiting mates & old haunts of my old area, easily on the way home frm work if I wanted to. Plus I had weekends on which to do bigger outings. Now I’m ill & can’t travel easily it’s a whole diff story. I get bk to my inner city home area maybe once a mth or so but it’s a huge effort, often without much payoff.
Long term illness has caused most of my friends to fall away, at least from close contact. I love those who make the effort to stay in touch & who remember me as the vibrant person I once was.
That’s enough for me today. I feel a pity party coming on & that wont help matters at all. Thankyou for just being here Nat & everyone. It makes a difference.
T 🙂
I do recall. Yes, I was just trying to separate knowing where you yourself stand on various social scales from evaluating your own worth.
We are social animals and if you grow up in or find yourself in a group that does not value you, you get the message that you have no value or have no idea that your unique you-ness is there to be valued as the priceless, irreplaceable wonder that is you.
You may grow up trying to prove you are priceless and irreplaceable to others and to yourself rather than enjoying (or discovering) your priceless-irreplaceableness on your own and with friends.
I do think sociality is something we all need, though, and I’m at a loss in my own life. Illness can be so isolating, I’ve seen it in women who I knew through group. They were sick, and it was painful, and they needed people to talk to, but people came around so rarely, they felt they had to be on their best behaviour and ‘fun’ when they did see friends, so as not to ruin the good time. When that’s the case, how does one find genuine sharing and mutual support?
You’re going through a lot, Teachable. I for one am glad to have you post here! You always make me smile with your EXPERT use of CAPS!
Yogurt. What you said is brilliant. So true what you eventually figured out. We send out messages unconsciously concerning what we think of ourselves. AC’s are especially sensitive in discerning these messages. It’s all part of what makes them makes the AC’s because they find the sneakiest and cruel ways in which to use your insecure feelings against you.
Ms. Determined. Your initial thought gave me pause. However, I certainly understand the skittishness. I’ve experienced it, myself and written about it. Just give it TIME as long you as he continues to CONSISTENTLY treat you with kindness, sincerity and truth. He may be a decent person, not to be “interviewing for the position of boyfriend”, until you find out more about him using your BR education. Because you are a regular here, you will naturally have your attenae up and you will know soon enough if he is earned your eventual label for him. But he’s got to be really special to earn that title of BF. My one lingering though on the negative side is that he may be lonely and if it were not you it would be someone else. He’s adjusting to living in a new country and then wanting to make it in the big city. These are some pretty big endeavors. Can you help him significantly with these issues? That’s something to consider. Take time. You will know soon enough. Also, don’t have sex too quickly because you know that will change the entire dynamic of the relationship. I know you know all this. Sometimes its good to have someone else tell you and to reinforce it.
Tink!
Oh yeah, I’m twitchier than an epileptic rabbit that’s stuck a fork in a wall socket.
I’m a limited position to help him (career wise he’s in a different stratosphere) but I suppose it’s nice for him to think he has someone to connect with here. I have to say, if I was in his position, I would want to call the only person I knew in town too. It’s the line isn’t it. Is he doing it because he thinks I can be useful, or because he likes me?
I do like him and I love sex. Right there is how Ms Determined gets into the most trouble. Time to pull out the Spanx pants. No one can get into those.
“Twitchier than an epileptic rabbit that’s stuck a fork in a wall socket”
ROFLAMAO!!
Brilliant must remember that one.
Opps should be ROFLMAO! Enjoying some wine.
*snort* 🙂
After four months of living with a man I basically didn’t know (he appeared after 20 years saying I was always the ‘one that got away’ and he has thought of me often) because I was so desperate/gullible/idiotic/trusting/hopeful, spending £1000 on meeting him abroad, getting dumped whilst I was there, left on my own and told not tell anyone, stupidly getting back with him after bizarrely telling him it was all my fault, coming back to England and being blanked for a week, being beside myself with worry because of him saying things about suicide, him lying to me and me being so tragically insecure not to call him on it, I decided enough was enough and put his stuff in storage. THEN, he came back, tells me I ruined an amazing relationship and what did I do? – I believed him and have spent the last two weeks oscillating between asking him to talk, taking all the responsibilty, texting and calling him too much, having precisely zero self-respect or dignity to starting to get over it. I had no response to anything nice I ever said and my pitiful requests to talk it over. I actually thought our relationship was ‘real’ and couldn’t get my head round the idea that he didn’t. Pathetic. Despite everyone’s advice, I let him know I was posting his bloody book to a friend. He responded by telling me he won’t be talking to me or his friend ever again and that if I ever contact him again, he will ‘not hesitate in going to the legal authorites. Hope you sort out your paranoid delusions’. His friend tells me that he’s managed to piss off pretty much everyone he’s come into contact with since he got back. He’s a nasty user who has absolutely no gratitude or care for the people that have basically saved his life, given him a home and lots of money so that he can get back on his feet again. So, there you go. That’s how screwed up a situation can get if you don’t listen to the clear advice of about twenty five people who care about you. It’s absolutely clear to me now, with so many examples that I can recall, that I was utterly used for sex, money, shelter and storage. I was even used in the way of supplying him with care and a listening ear. I believe he saw having a ‘girlfriend’ (me)as a way of telling the world that he’s not as bonkers and utterly self-obsessed as everyone thinks he is. I just didn’t want to believe it and always see the best in people – to my detriment, it seems. He is a homeless, narcissistic addict who owes an extraordinary amount of money to all and sundry and doesn’t see his children. I literally cannot believe that I have such a low opinion of myself in this area when I have so many wonderful friends, am good at my job, have a lot going for me creatively, and am a decent person. Yes, it’s an epiphany but I have never gone through anything like this before and it frightens me that I have allowed it to happen. Never, ever again. This is the start of my recovery and I am going to have some counselling to deal with stuff. I am very grateful to everyone here for taking the time to think about me and write and I am sorry to you all that I basically didn’t listen.
@ Shyner:
“He is a homeless, narcissistic addict who owes an extraordinary amount of money to all and sundry and doesn’t see his children.”
My dear, this above comment is your guet-out-of-jail-free-card, for feeling that 1) he was up for any kind of normal relationship 2) it is about you and 3) that you owe him any compassion.
As I recall he is also a liar who supposedly can get mute women to speak….*sigh*, narcissistic does not even encompass that comment.
Glad you are rid of this joker and chin up:)!
Shyner,
I’ve been reading your posts but haven’t chimed in yet as others were giving you excellent advice. I just want to say, be gentle with yourself. You can still do what’s right for you, you just took a detour, thats all.
F*ck him, donate the book to charity or leave it a bus stop or coffee shop or something. Erase every trace of this guy from your life. He simply isn’t worth it. Many of us have been right where you are now and can say with certainty, it does get better. Don’t beat yourself up over this, just gather yourself and start moving on one tiny baby step at a time. Going complete NC is the only way to stop ripping off the scab of a shitty relationship or ending. Hugs to you.
Shyner,
This is the biggest blooming bunch of beautiful sense I’ve ever seen.
Put a bow around that shit and get it in vase, STAT. And never, ever, EVER talk to that asshole again.
Congratulations.
I am doing my best. Urgh, it’s pretty hard to take a long, hard look at why I have got involved with a few AC’s and EU men. I’m not enjoying the process so far. It’s a bit of a battle to look at it and try to move forward, even though I know that ultimately the best thing to do. I am trying to be kind to myself but I have beaten myself up for so long and laid the blame entirely at my own door. it’s tiring and weighs heavy on my heart. Funny how I have been far too forgiving with these men but can’t give myself a bit more of an easier time.
Congrats Shyner, I do believe you’ve climbed on board! Always remember, we’ve all been there. We don’t know what we don’t know. Otherwise called a blindspot…or, lack of experience. NOW, you have the experience, are in the best place to discover the knowledge that goes with it, and now you know and can only do better for yourself. And hell, you’ve just joined a very presitigious club of kickass chicks 😉 Try not to beat yourself up, you have only been busting your ass to rectify an unrecitifiable situation. It’s a sign of a good trait of perseverence, and now you can rest assured that you have turned every stone, and checked every corner, and yup, just going to have to accept it – he’s not your fault!
Yep, and actually it’s going pretty well which is amazing considering how I was feeling and responding last week. I say this to you, ladies – when it feels like every last bit of your self-esteen, self-worth and savviness has gone, there is always a little bit left. It is a tiny bit but it kicks in when you least expect it, when it can see that you’re trying to take care of yourself. Seems to be the case for me, anyway. I feel bloody relieved and almost (but not quite) grateful for the experience because I think something’s changed in me. This place is ace and though I feel better, I will keep coming back here because there is the odd weak moment, but only because old habits are hard to break. Thank you one and all.
USED. Sums up what I been through. Coming near to 6 weeks now. I seemed to be doing great, but the last 2 weeks has been not as good 🙁 4 drunken txts and one ‘mistake’ txt. Saying sorry. MIGHT have been a big mistake, and hope I’m happy with HIM. (I’m not with anyone) Them pathetic breadcrumbs have played with me head 🙁
Just want to get back to where I was feeling confident again. Any contact sets me back. He dumped me for his ‘job’ and said that’s his ‘other half now’ and I have to ‘let go’. Only one who isn’t letting go is him. I feel so stupid for ever believing the fairy tale he fed me. Always happens to me. Nothing ever goes right for me 🙁
After 4+ yrs w my EU “child” I am 60 days of NC. I have to say this whole experience has been one of the most hurtful things I have ever experienced. The things I tolaterated & put up with nobody deserves this treatment. I could tell you stories that would leave you gasping for air, but ladies I ALLOWED it. It was like a drug I always forgave & went back for more! SHAME on me. Through the help of a friend and antidepressant medication I am I’m a better place and I am working on myself; each day building my self-esteem up, because I know I deserve better. Ladies, everyone should be treated like a Queen, and if u aren’t then you are being used. It has to be a give & take & if its not PLEASE find the door & don’t look back. I wasted alot of time & energy on someone and I feel I got nothing back. I am now working on why I allowed this & attracted this type of behavior. I LOVE this website …. I find whenever I’m feeling something I get an email about the topic, it’s almost like you know. Thank you.
If they are not treating you great from the beginning and show any Narc/Eu/AC tendencies run for the hills. When you have to work hard on getting them to treat you like a queen that is the biggest red flag. Many, like my ex Narc will rise to the occasion when you give them a challenge and they begin to treat you like a queen to get you because you become the big prize for them. They will for certain go back to who they were once you start to love and trust them and you will be left shocked and reeling. You end up pining for that guy who use to treat you like a queen and he wasn’t real.
I put myself through the painful charade of being the exMM’s “friend” for a year after he ended our love-affair. He needed the ego-stroke, and I needed to hold onto false hope. As painful as it was, it was an interesting look into the workings of a Narc AC. Before I had the sense (which is still a daily act of will) to flush him from my life, he would lure me in by telling me about his fresher love affairs. Of his latest and most tragic one, he said that she was hard to woo, at first, but “you know me, I love me a good challenge.” Not only was this woman his son’s teacher, but she was hurt and EU, herself, from a history of sexual trauma. He was hell-bent on tapping that “challenge” I was too wrapped up in him to be appropriately shocked by that, but now, with some distance, I can, with a certain clinical-cool, hear, with his very words, his admission that he’s a Narc who gets a certain thrill from the pursuit with no regard for the “prize’. Yuck. Yes, the bigger issue was that I LET him talk to me like that about his other love affairs. What was I thinking? I’m still so angry at myself for being the ultimate fallback girl, even though I take consolation that I am not doing this any longer.
Dear Discarded,
Number One – YOU! Change that Discarded header – it’s not true!! You got out. I’m at day 41 of NC and starting to feel so much better, my energy is coming back.
I’ve realised that the words that we use are very important, so stop saying things like “it always happens to me”. It happened to you, that doesn’t mean it will happen again because now you have new tools to make the changes within yourself. And stop saying “nothing ever goes right for me”…those are not good things to be telling yourself. Change the recording in your head and things will change around you. I know it’s hell but keep the NC up..in a few weeks you will feel like a different person. Have you read “Mr Unavailable and the Fallback Girl”? I also read anything I could lay my hands on online about NPD (Narcissistic Personality Disorder).
Well I’ve been Nc nearly 6 weeks, except for Tue when I told him. Please delete my number. Thank you’ then got that text which I just mentioned. I ignored it. Hes a Narc/Bpd. I just feel such a fool. It a long history, thought he would be different, but ended up being the worst out of the lot. I was feeling better, just a bad patch the last 2 weeks
Discarded,
Can’t you block? If not, I would consider changing your number.
Discarded (and I hope that moniker refers to the EUMs you’ve Discarded),
I’m with Gillian and Allison and all the others. You are going in the right direction! Yes there are bumps in the road. Yes some days are better than others. But what are you doing, you’re following your healthy intentions! You’re trying to protect yourself, and that comes first. Keep working on that by staying NC, gain your strength, get your perspective, and you’ll feel so much better by the time summer is upon us.
Gillian Very true Getting out of the madness is the key. Narcissists are dangerous people. I really believe they are evil hence the saying wolves in sheep clothing.
Here’s to us …. Mary C & all the other women out there – we are the ones who need to CHANGE if we don’t change he will just continue on the path of using us – WHY – because we allowed it. The sooner you get out the better off you will be in the end. It’s not worth the pain nor the energy, he isn’t going to change you are the one who needs to change!
Ah Natalie, you look right into my life! Yes, teh returning childhood sweetheart from when I was 16/17 has returned after 30 years via facebook.
As it was thirty years ago, I genuinely struggled to remember why we split up. Then slowly it came to me. I always had a niggling feeling that he was using me to make his ex GF jealous. Eventually I dumped his because I just knw he hadn’t got over the ex. Well BR ladies, you will NEVER guess what happened next? Yep, they went back out with each other within a week.
So, fast forward 30 years and he is trying to use me as some kind of filler/emotional airbag again! He is having some kind of mid life crisis, is “married but temporarily separated.” Whatever the eff that means. The NERVE of these guys. I really believe he looked through his mental roladex of exes and thought of yeah, Victorious, she was there for me when I couldn’t get over D, she might be useful again now, I think I’ll just track her down and throw some crumbs her way and see what happens. GRRR! I have stopped contact now and it looks like he has slunk away.
What threw me with the ex narc who brought me here was that he withdrew sex but still wanted to travel for 2/3 hours each way to see me regularly, just to hang out. I thought that the fact he wasn’t using me for sex meant that he really did care about me and wanted our relationship. I didn’t know about cerebral narcs then, so I didn’t realize this was straight out of the Narcs 101 Playbook. All he wanted from me was attention/ago stroking/making him feel “normal” by being his adoring GF. He preferred to get his sexual kicks solo. He was using me just the same though as my needs were not being met, and everything was on HIS terms.
No more. If I stay single for the rest of my life I will never get suckered by a FF/FF narc like that ever again.
Victorious I had a somatic Narc. Loved bragging to me about the harem. It didn’t raise red flags cause I never thought I would fall for him. Way too conceited and normally I put guys like that in their place…I didn’t fall for them. He was sexual and the hottest sex I ever had and I think I lost my mind. Passive aggressive Narcs are so hard to spot. Feigned empathy and was so charismatic and funny. I didn’t realize his plays were right out of Narcs 101 playbook till the end. Treated me very well and was probably the most generous bf I have ever had but that was an additional hook to suck me in. His devalue and discard game was an issue off and on in the relationship as well as him coming back begging and declaring undying love after I would NC him. It was so exhausting and gut wrenching. I was so happy to find BR I think the first post I read was “should I take him back 1st, 2nd 3rd time” I almost died. It was so me! I would still be on the roller coaster if I didn’t find BR and then investigate the intricacies of narcissism. Can you believe the cockroach actually told me he would get rid of the harem if I would take him back. I felt like I wanted to take a shower and climb under the bed. He is disgusting!!!
Just to clarify he went right back to his old ways and the harem after we broke up. At one point when I agreed to be friends of course he tried to weasle back in. I sarcastically pointed out that it might be difficult since I knew he was seeing at least two different women. That’s when he said that disgusting statement. Rid of? Were you going to dispose them? I knew his narcissism got 10x worse since our breakup. Narcs get worse with age. I would never trust him and there was no turning back! NC
Victorious,
“and everything was on HIS terms.”
Yes, I now classify this as red flag behaviour.
It was subtle nothing ever directly said such as you can’t call me I will call you.
You will only see me when it suits me and so much other implied stuff.
You gave me a aha moment.
I’m sure all this goes back to my childhood where there were a million implied rules that you followed for you own protection, it would have been the same with the eum/ac I knew how quickly I would have been shown the door if I broke them and I was loving the fantasy land.
I remember your post from another thread how you wanted a casual relationship didn’t want him to be in your ‘real’ life etc. that was exactly my thinking at the beginning of this roller coaster ride. I’m so glad you shelved the idea because it really is hell.
Soon I will stop this obsessive posting I know it’s probably a little anxiety prior to my embarking on my one week of living with my bf. But, it’s not the first time and I’m more anxious than the first time. Maybe it’s that old EU sh*t trying to rear its ugly head. Anyway……..
KK2542. Have you posted before? If not, welcome. You are ahead in that you see your mistakes and will not repeat them. the medication will calm you down, but you should be taking it in conjunction with therapy. Otherwise it’s only half treatment. you want to get to the root causes of why you have done and/or allowed the unspeakable treatment. Take good care of yourself, please. Forget that scumbag, NOW. Stay with us you will learn a lot and become much, much stronger. All the best.
Grizelda, now that you point out that red flag re Ms Determined’s romeo, I see it. I personally don’t ‘do’ casual sex & as I hope to meet some one who shares my values that for me I think would be a red flag. I gave yr post some thought & though initially not sure of the color of this flag (ie amber or red) what made it red for me, is him saying HE had to end things b.c. he fell in love with someone he was having casual sex with. ie WHAT THE? Also, it sounds like he’s describing a PATTERN of behaviour there, rather than what happened in individual specific r.ships. This makes me question so out of the times HE dumped his casual sex partner, b.c, shock horror, he.fell in love (err, is that supposed to be the objective of a r.ship?) how many times EXACTLY was it HIM doing the leaving rather than him being left. As I type the more I realise what a line of waffle that whole comment is!
Add that to him being new in town & therefore NEEDING a soft place to land (despite his success in life \ career Ms D’s ‘welcome mat’ WILL ease this transition period for him), & together with what you astutely point out, I personally would not progress with this guy.
I also thought after my last post responding to Ms D, how covenient (for him) he happens to also works in a related prof area. This raises the Q does he intend to milk Ms D for her prof contacts too? It’s been done to me by a new guy in town…thankfully I never progressed past platonic with him. I always felt something NQR so trusted gut & friend zoned him. It took a DECADE for it to emerge he had had a substantial gambling prob he’d kept hidden back when I 1st knew him! He also turned out to be a lame friend in the long run anyway. Yep. You guessed it. I was ‘used’ to introduce him to all & sundry in the music biz at the time & when my own time of need came later, he renegged on an offer of pre arranged temp accom (I was of course to pay my way) & left me homeless! Argh!! Who are these guys!! LOL (Was yrs bk now so I can laugh abt it in hindsight).
Hi again Teach. You post on your phone huh? Funny I’ve been scrolling through the list of replies and I’m getting my advice scattered through…I replied to your original post above.
There’s one thing I should be clear about, I didn’t work it very well in my original comment. When he was talking about casual sex he didn’t say that HE had to end it because he developed feelings for the casual partner/s, it ended because he developed feelings and either a) he disclosed them and the other party dumped him or b) the other party had made it clear it wasn’t going anywhere and he walked.
Either way, we have a bloke who is interested in sex (WHAT? A GUY WHO’S INTERESTED IN SEX?) but seems to bond with the wrong chicks. There is every probability he still has me pegged as EU from when we dated briefly last time (he may be right, I haven’t ‘tried out’ being consciously emotionally available) and is hoping for the same this time around. In other words, he’s more like us than we’re like EUMs. Which means…if I don’t manage to freak out (thanks Natashya, have you got CCTV at my place?) and am available to him, he might bolt anyway.
So many questions. I’ve been totally upfront with him and told him what my idea of a healthy relationship looks like, and he was in agreement with it. BUT as Grizelda points out, this is the time for hot winds to be a blowin’.
I think you were right Teach. It’s all gotta be time.
PS Did you say party? Even if it’s a pity party, I’ll bring snacks and margaritas. We’ll turn that party vibe around and have the neighbours complaining in no time.
His “romantic” history is hidden abroad. He sounds like he is on the make having read your post. A man who needs a woman in his life to define him but when his feelings get involved he bolts. Typical EUM.
The clues actually glaring red flags are there like casual sex, ends relationships, never married, falls in love and runs.
Oh allegedly Warren Beatty hit on Annette Benning with the words ” I am not trying to make as pass at you but if I was to be so fortunate to have such an occasion it would be my wish to impregnate you immediately”. She conceived their first child that night! Yuk. I’d have given him a free pass to nowehereville as that has to be the corniest chat up line ever.
In my situation. I thought this person was my friend. When we met he was going through some relationship problems as he had cheated on his girlfriend. He confided in me about the guilt and pain he was going through and I eventually close to him. He eventually ended the relationship with his girlfriend and we got closet (or so I thought. Around Xmas since we were long distance, we decided to exchange cards. However we got into an argument and he decided he no longer wanted to send me a card.
After voicing my displeasure about his actions I was told that I was ‘overreacting’ and he no longer wanted to have anything much to do with me. That hurt me a lot and still do esp after I had booked a trip to see him before that argument came about. After that I ended up being the one initiating most contact. When time came for my previously booked trip he informed me that he had met someone new and would not have much time to see me. Although things had gone south I still thought we would have spent time to work on things. He never contacted me. I ended up csncelling the trip. But it still hurts. And I feel used. It was so easy for him to discard me when I geniuinely cared about him.
Ava,
Five big red flags:
CHEATER
Long disatance
Let them travel to you
Moves from woman to woman
Does not deal with conflict
Thanks Allison
You’ve summed it up quite nicely
Ava,
Mine too, was a passive aggressive cheat- serial cheated on ex wife. Why I thought his character would morph into a man of character, is beyond me. UGGGH!
This people are a waste of time, but an incredble lesson what NOT to be attracted to!
Because we think we are going to be the exception and even if we are for awhile they will go back to who they are eventually. They are hard wired AC”s
I too was horrified to read of how that AC treated Yoghurt. HE is the ugly one there & where it really matters, ON THE INSIDE! So glad you escaped from him. Ugh!!
You also gave me food for thought. I’m usually very resolute that we don’t do anything to ATTRACT AC’s as this I believe such (often new agey type clap trap) ascribes mythical power to us over others, that we frankly (in my view) do not have.
I really liked what you said though about us sometimes giving others the info they need to hone in on our vulnerabilities. I think Nat did a post on this a while back. She called it a ‘tell’. Your comment gave me food for thought to mull over re some of my own issues. Thankyou.
Shyner.
It sounds like yr being very harsh on yrself. Put away the 4×2 hey (meaning plank of wood yr beating yrself up with there). Extricating ourselves from these r.shits is a PROCESS not a single event. If it was the latter you wouldn’t need to be on BR! (Pointing this out is supposed to wryly make you laugh ;))
Oh if only you KNEW what I put myself through getting away from my now deceased ex AC! You would wonder was I of borderline intelligence needing a BRAIN TRANSPLANT!! LOL The point is you’ve made it to yr decision in the end & I personally think offloading the book to the friend was fine. Okay so TELLING HIM you’d done that led to a bit more argy bargey. Whatev. If it was what was needed for you to get pissed off & dump his ass for good what’s the issue with that? None. You got rid of his book & you {I presume} have accepted perhaps not getting yr notebook with yr writers notes in it back. {If that had really important notes in it btw, I’d say blow tht & find out if the police could retrieve it, however, each to their own).
Overall, apart from dealing with the aftermath of this which you intend to do in counselling, FWIW, I think you’ve done well.
May the BR force be with you!
T 🙂
Bless you. Thanks. I can tell I am at the very beginning of this process because I feel a mixture of things, still. I am pretty tired, like I have to concentrate a lot to maintain the positivity (even though I know it’s the right thing and I feel ‘freer’.) There is no doubt in my mind that the bloody book goes elsewhere and if he ever contacts me about it, I will refer him to our friend (if he is talking to him by then – which won’t be my problem). I feel a bit battered by all the conflicting thoughts, the comments on my mental health, blame, confusion and my wanting to ‘solve’ it all in my head. Perhaps I should just let time do its work. Day 2 of NC – oh, well done Me!
McKenzieM. So glad to have helped you. Take all the time you need. You have it until the end of time. There’s no rush. It’s very important not to inadvertently rush into possibly another big mess. Good luck.
I think a huge part of it is that I know the EUAC has moved on to the next, and I’m still working through the mess to better myself. I want it to get back to him that I’m moved on as well (we have tons of mutual friends). I realize that sounds ridiculous, but it’s true. :\
This post spoke volumes to me as well, because I am so ready to hear this message.
I have been entangled with a psychopath for 3 plus years, and I am finally getting to the other side, I do not give him anything he asked for. So the spaces between him contacting me are getting longer and longer, and soon he will be in my past. This has been a painful journey, but I have learned and grown so much, I dont think I would change a thing.
It served a purpose for awhile, but now it serves no purpose in my life. I am happy and content without all of the drama.
I love your blog so much, sometimes painful to read, but you have always been right on point….Thx
Dang Carolyn,
You are one courageous lady. Whenever I get involved with psychopaths, I feel I can’t live with out them. I begged for a man that bruised and choked me to ‘take me back.’ Granted that’s been several years ago, but boy do I still struggle with being attracted to creeps.
Oh dear. Feel sick in my gut. That female friend I referred to, well, I felt I had been used by her earlier on & I even discussed this with her, at least twice. (As why else, was she now acting so strangely?). I dont have the energy to post the detail atm but the line, ‘if you feel you’ve been used, you probably have been’ just jumped out at me & slapped me in the face like a cold dead swordfish. Crikey!
I have so little support here & I know she is not much support (I began withdrawing after noticing feeling badly abt myself after interacting with her) but she’s my only close-ish friend out here. I did try to go totally NC at one stage a while back but eventually caved in the midst of a crisis due to the desperation of my situation at the time. I was extremely down with depression with depression (caused by long term physical illness & the losses that has created) & in desperate need of a friend. I was in the midst of being effed over by a sitch I did not create totally beyond my control needed company to get me through a rough patch that evening as I was literally going insane from all the stress & worry that was creating. There was no one else nearby to turn to & in a very rare moment I just did not want to be alone that night so visited her for a little while.
I’ve talked issues through with her along the way but I’m not sure it’s changed her behaviour much. I thought perhaps she might even have undiagnosed bi polar disorder as her presemtation from first knowing her, presents to me as mimicking the symptoms of that at times. I now dont know what to think.
She goes to church & sometimes does things which cause me to feel I am totally imagining that something is NQR. Like giving me some $ to buy food last week when I had none (a one off which I accepted but regretted almost afterward due to something she then did which was repeating behaviour I have twice previously told her I find intrusive & invasive of my privacy).
Due to my sitch at the time though I also wasn’t in a position to give it back to her {this was prior to getting a small incone & food assistance) & I also knew that returning it would create drama & I didn’t want that.
I was a high powered career gal when she latched onto me & she wanted what I had (or to know how to get it). She’s been welfare dependendent her entire life. She was in a DV sitch when she first approached me seeking my friendship & I had a prof background inltht area. She’d also just come into a sizable inheritance & had NO IDEA how to handle it. I helped her make some good decisions re her $ sitch & to escape her DV sitch safely. I also helped her to get her first ever tax paying job & to return to study. (She’s finished tht lot of study now, but ditched the job for cash work & welfare). She has 5 kids, 4 are young adults. Only 1 still dependent.
Then I got sick with cal issues. She proclaimed all sorts of expertise in what I’m dealing with due to similar issues from an accident 20 yrs ago. There is some validity to this. I began confiding in her about my health issues & things went south from there.
Even typing this I still don’t know what to think. Perhaos I’m over sensitive due to illness. Can anyone tell if it sounds like I am being over sensitive or not?
Sometimes events happen good or bad in your life and change your way of thinking.I guess its like Nat says go with your gut don’t be so hard on yourself.I know I’m not in a mental state to give advice but I have heard this more than once to take care of yourself first especially if you are having health problems.Hope you have better and brighter days and God fill your heart and life with peace and happiness.
Thanks Lacey,
I don’t have the energy to explain the entire dynamic with the woman, and I know people can’t really give proper feedback if I don’t give concrete examples, but in short, she’s not using me now, but I think that when she first befriended me (initiated totally by her, not me) and that when for the follwoing period she needed my friendship to guide her through sorting out her life, that in hindsight, her behaviour since (weird, just weird) has left me feeling used during that initial period. Now I feel a bit discarded and like I’m imposing on her in expecting just normal friendship as one would with anyone. It makes me very uncomefortable. So unfortable I have explicitly raised all of this with her. She claims to be overwhelmed with her own life. Not sure what with exactly although I’ve tried being supportive and asking if there is anything I can help with, and assisted with cleaning her house once to try to help her. Otherwise, she’s financially secure, has stable housing, no relationship probs, and whenever I contact her she’s socialising up a STORM (with everyone except me!) Weird.
I hope this makes some sense. Not sure if anyone else has experienced this? She also does strange things occassionally which I think are intended to give the opposite impression ie that she didn’t use me at the outset and that she is a genuine friend, but I’m slowly staring to realise, maybe she is not?
I’m going to not call for a while and see what happens. When I’ve done this in the past she tends not to call me either & once a couple of times practically ignored me when I saw her at a group we occassionally run into each other at! THIS after ingratiating herself as literally my closest friend for the first 12 mths and having contact in her ‘blow hot come on’ phase at least 3 times a week! She texted afterward the second time but I still thought this quite rude!
I suspect that now I’m ill and no longer the high powered career gal I was when we met she thinks she has no further ‘use’ for me! LOL Also she may have just been a bit lonely. I introduced her to a female aquaintence of mine (someone I wouldnt ever get reallu really close to but a nice enough woman) and suggested to my so called ‘friend’ they would make good friends. I notice these two now hang out like best buddies while I am out the cold! Again, weird!
The interesting thing about this is that I can predict what the future holds for this woman, even just based on the limited contact we occassionally now have from time to time.
She made SOME sound decisions about the large sum of $ she inherited but is blowing far too much of what was left over on frivilous things that are not needed (repeated trips o/seas to where she is from, not a ‘cheap country’ with exotic detours to expensive countries.) Doing this once was fine & shouting all the kids to go with her (remember this is 4 adults, plus one teen) but she’s now about to undertake her FOURTH oseas trip in TWO YEARS and I know her nett worth will NOT sustain this kind of spending going forward. She has NO retirement savings (having been welfare dependent all her life) and is only 6 years off earliest retirement age, especially if you factor in time she will need to invest in properly educating herself in order to have a solid career, which she has proclaimed to want (so far she has done a short course only).
This is the problem of those whose only assets or wealth (she is far from wealthy) come from OPM (other people’s money). Because they didn’t SWEAT and SACRIFICE to save for that money in the first place, they have NO IDEA of it’s TRUE VALUE.
If she continues as she has been I predict that she will blow most if not all her the inheritance which is not invested in property within the coming few years and be left broke again. Silly woman. But hey, I’m all ‘used up’ already so she obviously doesn’t need MY support or advice hey (as I sometimes feel like I’m just a needy disabled person now of no futher use to her).
I will continue to just sit back and observe and TRY to give her the benefit of the doubt, if/when we cross paths. It would be sad if I’m right about what the future holds for her, but the whole story behind her inheritance was quite dodgy anyway (and first alerted me to something not being quite right with her).
She tries hard but has a lot to learn. I feel a bit sorry for her. Such is life!
Onward and upward! 🙂
Hey my comments are slow but I’m most defiantly listening and truly concerned.I lost my cell and now I’m down to my ipad, I use it at work mostly lol.But You should go light on yourself cause its not your fault you are sick,I hope you get better soon and overcome what you are going through. Maybe thats part of the reason you feel a certain way about your friend not bad feelings but your skeptical,maybe you should let her know the reason why you are skeptical about her as a friend and let her know u aren’t against being friends with her but you are skeptical,thats if you truly believe she is a genuine friend and I don’t know the whole story or know her personally to say.Just keep being your wonderful self and things will work out.
Teach,
First, thanks for your kind words about my post. A high privilege coming from you.
Second, I think you already know the answer with this woman friend, but you are trying to justify this behavior to yourself. I know because I’m mad good at justifying the crap out of people’s behavior. How can I tell? Because YOU have a niggling feeling and you’re asking us to confirm it. I’m not even bothering to look at this woman’s actions much (though there are some amber and possibly red flags there as to how she lives her life). However, I’m mainly looking at the fact that your “hunch” is that you feel used. Some people do it consciously, some unconsciously. But there it is.
I’m sorry you’re going through this on top of everything else.If it’s not too serious, maybe you can have (another) talk with her, and tell you how you’re feeling. If you feel that it’s past the point of no return, you are under no obligation to maintain a close relationship with her. Real friends don’t make you feel like a second class citizen. ((Hugs)), Teach.
Ava you dodged a CANMONBALL (as my therapist would say) there. Yr friendship with that user BEGAN with him ‘confiding’ in you about his infidelity in his previous r.ship. Need I say more? Chin up! Hugs. T 😉
Great post again Nat!!
Why do people who are users get SO bent out of shape when someone else uses them? Why do they not look at how terrible it makes them feel, learn from the experience, and stop using others??
If anyone has an answer, please enlighten me!!
I can relate to this. After a 3 yrs fantasy relationship that was very self destructive to me, I have realized after breaking NC 3x that it is finally DONE. I guess a boulder just fell on my head today? He could NOT of been any meaner but oh I kept going back for more. All of this because I would not leave my life in the US to go be with him in the UK! He said well I must live with my life what am i to do? I am working on loving me now…I am done looking in the rearview mirror!
I raise my glass to all you LOVELY LADIES here…
You are all Beautiful Souls…
Thank you all for you inspiring stories…x
This article couldn’t have come at a better time and applies to all relationships in one’s life.
I tend to be very forgiving. I give people more chances than most would because I genuinely care for them and/or love them and have a *big heart* but sometimes you have to step back and love yourself enough to let them go and move on and love THEM enough to stop feeding their “addiction”.
You cannot control others but you DO have control over yourself, you behavior and your life.
agreed 🙂
Thank you for the reminder, Nat.
I can now recognize these users. My ex husband is a user. I have had several ‘dates” that would boomerang. I’d call them on it. Some would persist. I’d either make small talk ad keep calls short or enforce the no contact rule. One man, after calling me to brag about his new vehicle, that he could drive up to see me now (he would invite me out closer to his place, claiming car issues), implied he wanted me to call him the following night when I had to cut the call short. I didn’t confirm that I would. I just said goodnight. Now when I am contacted by boomerang former dates, I am more direct. ” I will not see you again.” or “I cannot fit you into my schedule.” or the demand, “We need to talk.” 🙂 That one always seems to end the exchanges. I can’t imagine why!
This post could not have come at a more opportune time for me; a few days ago I had an epiphany about someone I thought was a friend. The sudden realization that I have been being used stung mightily and I’m still figuring out where to put all the hurt. It’s going to take a while to digest this revelation about him, but in some odd way I feel better.
Thank you Natalie for reinforcing (and validating) that what I was having was not a friendship or a relationship.
Great post Nat!!!
My ex boyfriend used me a lot!!!
I really didn’t pay attention at the time and I have talked to my therapist about it, quite a few people in my life think I got my therapist because of this past so called relationship, but it was because I seem to attract these kind of men always and I have had the most messed up childhood and I needed to know how to fix these things.
Anyways I got used… I paid for him to have gas in his car, anytime we went out I paid because he was broke all the time, on weekends he would sleep at my place…there is more, but all I got in return from him was a shag and nothing more.
when he finally had what he wanted he gave me the line of “I just can’t do this, I have so much to deal with and I think it’s best I just take sometime on my own to sort my life out.” YES I BELIEVED THIS!!!!
Truth was he had met someone else and they had already been on a few dates and I suppose he figured she had more to offer…
here is the funny thing, hysterical actually!
she used him and when she could get nothing more she let him go and he was devastated because of it. I know this because when we were together I became great friends with his best friends girl friend and they have told me so much… his best friend said he didn’t feel bad for him and that what goes around comes around…
So now my using ex has been single for 2 months and he’s now being nice to me saying hi asking me how I am, asking friends of mine how I’m doing…I guess he thinks I have more to give, but I don’t and I’m not stupid, and lets pretend for a moment that he has seen the errors of his ways and has realized what a fantastic woman I am…whats done is done. set in stone, as they say and I know him now, his true self and as much as I have forgiven him his actions towards me I have no trust in him and without trust there is NOTHING!!!
Good for you!! My situation sorta similar but much more tragedy and shenanigans.Sorry u had to go through that but,looking back at my situation,I learned so much.
This love stuff is coming together in my mind a lil and it makes it easier for me to see what I want and what I can bring to a relationship when the guy comes into my life.
I am 1 week Nc how sad I had a slip up and paid deeply .My feelings have been going away I have been batteling and trapped in my own feelings also just wanting to be right or win him over since 02,we losttouch for a yr cause I d the past 2 yrs when his mind was made up and he had moved on without verbally telling me but,the signs were in my face.
Actually we had been seeing each other off and on for a yr at the time I was strong enough to walk away and actually I had someone.I was emotionally unavailable I admit even in that relationship,I didn’t know how to love.He died in a car accident and I meet back up with the Ac soon after.
In the beginning of us meeting back up I was closed off and I he was ready and he said I rejected him and admit I did.I just thought that I would forgive but not forget the way he had treated me and keep my guard up everything but everything happens for a reason and I can’t play the jedi mind game with anyone.
I hope we all have better and brighter days!!!
Haven’t we as women, in a way, been set up to be “used” emotionally for generations? We were expected to be dependent, compliant and obedient and that is still the case for most women in the world. When we stood on our own two feet and tried to get out from under this, get in touch with what we wanted and say “no” we were punished either directly or indirectly. It is sometimes very subtle. We questioned ourselves if we did not allow ourselves to be “used” as emotional airbags or as sympathetic “listeners” or if we brought up issues that were important to us. It takes courage to act differently and say “no” – it does not always work well. Social isolation can be one of the “punishments.” I have found in some parts of my work life that my boundaries are less respected than my male colleagues and there is a very subtle way of undermining me if I am not accepting and cheerful. But then I think my fears also lend weight to this. I need a thicker skin – most definitely.
I’m sitting here wondering,I know what’s done is done and moving on with my life is the best option now.Although I agree with and love all of Nats post its stuff I know but didn’t live by trying to be an exception to the rule.Still I wonder if I had done things differently would things had worked out between us?
I read on another site that u should basically have boundaries in order and treat the man with love.I did those things although I am flawed but yet,I still didn’t win the guy.Do I have to be some perfect barbie doll?dinner ready all the time,sex continuously?etc,what if I fall sick or a life tragedy?is it grounds for the guy to say hey this relationship isn’t n anymore its time to leave?
Just a thought I know it doesn’t relate much to the post.
I have few girlfriends who were dumped by their boyfriends for Oriental girls…All these guys were saying, that their new girls are submissive, quiet, nice, loving and caring, like a real traditional family – oriented women, but us Westerners do not know how to threat a man!
I believe I was submissive caring and loving,then some of that went out the door when he left for a mth after I told him I was pregnant.
I believe in a way that was submissive because I took him back or maybe just plain crazy.He asked to be back in a relationship I said no.I guess that wasn’t submissive although,I still let him leave clothes mail,drive my car,ran my household around his rules so he would be comfortable,when he called I ran all the time,guess I wasn’t being submissive I was being a doormat.It ate me up so bad I couldn’t love him nor anybody else then and now.
But I will work on me and I know its a great guy waiting for me that will love and care for me and my family,and I will get that happy ending.
Lacy, you are strong woman, who cares what these b@@@@dy men want, we KNOW WHAT WE WANT and we will get it!
Thanks Hs!!
HS,
So gross. Only a real sicko would want a pet as a girlfriend. My dad (before I implemented no contact on his ass) would say shit like that about women. That women from other countries were better-“They don’t have all these needs and demands.” So sick really. These men talk of oppression as if it’s a good thing just so they can keep being pigs.
I agree with you, that’s why I don’t have respect for these kind of men! I want someone strong, equal who can be the same level as me and who doesn’t expect me to do all running around and became slave!
HS
As an “oriental” I don’t recognise my fellow women in that description. These men are very shallow. They see the surface (usually petite, young looking, long hair – it grows so fast it’s a pain to keep short) and equate that to certain qualities. Even if the “oriental” is a loudmouth or protests he will just write it off as “cute” or ignore her. Because he doesn’t care about her.
Generally speaking, though, most of us can cook as we don’t really eat junk food and ready meals. But my sister can’t make a sandwich so even that’s not guaranteed.
My colleague’s brother married an overseas wife, they had children, and when they divorced (instigated by her) she took them back to her home country and now he hardly sees them. it’s not always a fairytale for the men and they’d be naive not to look at what they’re getting into. He may be using her but she might be using him too. A relationship isn’t a transaction like that, you’re both supposed to be giving.
Grace, sorry if I upset you, I did not mean it. I just talked to one of my friends (she is Oriental), she is married to American man, has a child with him. He is controlling freak, she is doing EVERYTHING, looking after her son, house, business, she is caring, loving, beautiful person, I love her to bits! I wish I could help her to leave her monster-husband. HE clearly USING HER, but she cant see it, I have to introduce her to BR and wonderful NATALIE!
HS
No worries, I’m not upset. It’s a common stereotype that I feel needs exploding!
Shame about your friend. Unfortunately, that happens to women all over and from all over the world.
True, no woman in no continent is an exception. I come from Eastern Europe and men from Western countries usually think of women in here as more submissive than the ladies from their own countries, and I must admit that many women do really cater to such stereotype by engaging in obviously unhealthy relationships with foreigners with some strange prospect that he might “create” a better life for them (which also caters for the stereotype that we would do anything to get out from here, which is not true). The other thing is that our local men aren’t very nice to women – e.g. when there was an article that our women have the highest percentage of university diplomas in EU, there were plenty comments of men, bashing educated women;( so obviously such patriarchal thinking “produces” many women with low self-esteem, who are actually beautiful, healthy, have a decent career, their own place to live and etc. Yet they are made to think the only way of keeping a man by your side requires being obedient to a man.
You both are so right. I think she didn’t mean specifically that oriental women were behaving like pets some women may view that as thats how they want to behave in a relationship with their man or woman no matter the race.I have seen that in all women some get burnt out from it and become resentful some enjoy it, its really your preference and you are so right it happens to all women.My Mom or dad don’t eat junk and my oldest sis is 40 she prepares breakfast,lunch,dinner,wash clothes etc but,it is sometimes he cooks,he said when he was in the Army he learned how to cook,he came home and showed her,he is the real cook of the family Lol.Washing clothes hey I’ve seen my dad do that too. My thing is I want to be an equal some people may be okay with holding up certain roles by themselves and their partner relax but I don’t know,I just hope that God bless everyone on this site and every woman or man who struggles with finding the one who is made for them,that God brings that person in your life.
Lacy,
Your post does make sense and does apply. Do you want a man who wants who you are not? That’s what we have all done. Tried to create the fantasy, the barbie look, the submissive lifestyle? Did it work? No. I have come to realize that I gave up me, trying to get some AC to like and be with me, all the while he was just using me. I have decided, that I am no longer going to compromise myself, my values, who I am for a man. And those that want to use me, will end up walking away. And so be it. I have seen healthy relationships, and there is trust, honesty, respect, companionship, love, and friendship. But each person is authentic, and genuine. So that is where my focus is, I will speak my truth, be who I am, not run to fix or caretake, only fix and give care to myself right now.
I am away for a week right now, vacation with my daughter who had another baby, almost 3 months NC. In the past, he would have taken me to the airport, watched my dogs, and spend the entire time texting me, crying about being abandoned, that I must be with another man, threaten to get rid of my dogs, shoot them and bury them int he back yard, desert my car on a road side somewhere, absolute insanity. Today I am having a wonderful time, totally focused on my family, my dogs are in a kennel, I took a cab to the airport, my car is parked safe at my apartment, and the management knows that I am gone for a week, so all is well. And I am totally at peace.
Magnolia. The last sentence in your saga sums it up. That was long before BR, I presume.
QUESTION!!!!
Reading these comments I have to ask…
Is there any really great men out there???
Kathleen…I am really not sure if there are or not. Most of the really great guys I do know are married or in a relationship already. For me I am on a dating hiatus and it may be forever. And I am Ok with that. I have spent most of my adult life with men that I look back and think what was I thinking…My life now is at times lonely but its drama, AC free and that refreshing….
{Are there any good men left you asked?}
Yes, there are however they are too young and still innocent, or they are old and tired of playing games. Best advice I can share with all women, is “Be good to yourself, plan your own life adding some contingencies, because you will need some along the way, and develop boundaries which will serve you well. Some women don’t know what boundaries are, because they were never given the right or allowed to have any as children. Unlearn many things you were taught, such as “women must be obedient, self sacrificing, God-fearing, subservient, helpful, charitable, sweet, low maintenance, and forgiving. Crap all crap. We should all have boundaries and let no man ever make you feel that you’re not enough. All men will keep pushing your boundaries to see how he can get away with things; it’s up to women to decide just how far they will allow this. When men keep pushing relentlessly, you know sooner or later that man will use you. Why bother sticking around to find out how far? He’s not a blood relative, he’s a stranger you probably use to know, or just met a few months ago. I will share an example with you: last week I met a man once(from where is not important)for a date at a coffee shop. I got myself a coffee and took a seat. When he walked in about 25 minutes late, he sat down and asked me “Is that my coffee?” The date was OVER! Your boundaries need practice, and practice will save you heartache and yes money as well. I learned the hard way for years. Where my sadness lies is that I married a man with Aspergers Syndrome whom I cannot live with, they are wired differently, as you are probably aware… Asperger, is a form of autism at different levels of the spectrum scale is not easy to live with, at first it can be mistaken for “narcissism”, which we all have to some degree. My question to you is this “Am I being used for the care I give this man?” My boundaries are there, I give what I can, but like you I still ask the same question, because when we feel we are not loved, we feel used. We love and expect to be loved, healthy exchange. However we are not all wired the same intellectually, mentally, emotionally. Boundaries are healthy, unrealistic expectations are not, even with mentally challenged people know your limits, don’t go thinking you owe them everything but you can get along with very little in return, don’t become a martyr, like some religions teach you. Thank you wishing you all well.
Oh yeah, I get you, Cat!
I’ve been involved with an Aspie and thats how I appeared in here-though all seemed OK between us, I constantly felt like theres something lacking and started questioning myself the same question “is he using me?” (didn’t know he has AS then). All ended up in jerky way-he just vanished and ignored any attempts of mine to contact him. I’d say this line between the AS thing and jerky behaviour is very very fine – though you can’t expect them to act like NTs, yet they know what is appropriate and whats not, so I think thats the indicator when deciding whether such man is using you.
Answer
YES THERE IS!!!
Kathleen,
Yes of course!
Realistically, most women would probably agree that ‘functioning as an adult’ is the number one requirement before a guy can potentially go on to meet the definition of ‘great’. Sadly, there’s a proportion of men who just do not even meet that one basic standard of functioning as an adult, and I think these are the very men who’ve broken us in the past and the very men we talk about on BR 99.9% of the time. Assclowns — they behave like they’re permanently 12 years old. The emotionally unavailable and/or emotionally devoid — they behave like selfish, duplicitous tyrannical two year olds. The personality disordered — they don’t even remotely qualify to be put anywhere on the the scale of ‘functioning as an adult’. All of those types are nothing but timewasters, con-artists and sex thieves. Identify them and remove them from your life because being with them means only one thing: inevitable hurt.
Once you’ve done that, you’re talking about the world outside of BR — where there are millions upon millions of normal healthy men with good lives who are looking to meet nice women. These men can actually bring as much to the table as you can, as foreign a concept as that might seem sometimes! I think they’d have a big chance as qualifying as ‘great’ guys.
Kathleen,
No. Just kidding. Yes, there are, but I think it takes time and observation to spot them. They’re not like the assclowns, perusing bars, coffee shops, care homes, where ever. I mean these a hole men scour the ends of the earth looking for their next victim. And if they come up short with a woman as in she tells him to bug off, the assclown doesn’t internalize any of it. He just uses it as amo against women, a means to justify his downright dirty/nasty/spiteful/deplorable behavior. These men are monsters. I have met really warm, nice men, I just don’t remember them very well or think of them too often. They don’t occupy to much space in my head like the bad ones. That’s why I’m here. But…you’ve got to know how to spot the bad ones before you can recognize and appreciate the good ones.
Kathleen,
I agree with peanut, and the others. There are great men out there and lots of them. We have to change us, go to different places, that the AC’s don’t hang out and groom their next victim. My AC gave me some valuable lessons, he told me he joined some of the dating sites, the meet-ups etc looking for a hook up. Great, huh? It was easy to troll online and not get off his fat ass to go out and meet someone, and he could lie about who he really was. So I told myself, I need to get out, and put myself in places that there are people that I will see and be around to get to know them first. I am staying off line to meet a man. That’s where I met him. It really comes down to me. I have to take care of me, trust myself, respect myself, value myself, and with that I will attract healthy into my life. Sound simple? Sounds like one of the hardest things, to do in my life on a daily basis. But you know what? I am worth it!!! I heard all the negatives from AC, and you would think I was a terrible person. Only to learn from BR that was the scam, the game, the grooming that my AC used to get me to become submissive, question myself, and try to get him to validate me. ALmost three months NC and on here every day has pushed me to a place I have never been before, and I am loving it!
Also, Kathleen,
I think it’s important to say/point out, just as there are mean, nasty and spiteful women out there, there are real warm, loving and trustworthy ones. Same for men. It’s no different really. There are good people and bad people. Well, perhaps it’s not sooo black and white. There are people of good, decent character and there are people of deplorable character. And yet there are cases more complex where sometimes we get blinded by hooks and can’t see a person’s character on a particular front. Like say you have a man who does great humanitarian work, or an astronomical heart surgeon who helps millions, but both men cheat on their wives. It doesn’t mean they’re deplorable people per se, or that there contributions to society don’t matter, just deplorable people to be married to. That’s why values are sooo important.
Some people don’t value monogamy even if they say they do or even want to themselves. I value monogamy so I could be with the someone who checks every box I have, fits with all my other values, but it’ll never work if that one is missing. I’d be miserable. So would they. Humans are complex, but the dating thing is actually a lot simpler than I think a lot of us, me included, make it out to be. Take care. Onwards!
This website has really got me through everything, and this time last month I was feeling like I wanted to just fall asleep and not wake up, so I thank you all for your tales as this has helped me get stronger! It feels horrible to accept that you’ve been targeted for being vulnerable and used by an older man-in this case, the lying, charming, valleys, manipulative, womanising, rugby playing, stoner with a campervan. Aaaah hindsight, yes the red flags were there-he did and he probably still is painting himself in a ‘poor me’ light in regards to his exes and probably me too, along with a few other warnings I didn’t pick up on at the time. I am thankful that he (and others afterwards) revealed his true colours to me sooner rather than later. Still oddly seeking validation in the form of a text, but now 1 month NC and I know this will pass with more time. It also hurts that I’ve been thinking about all this for the past two months, when I know he was onto his next victim/s throughout and right away, but heyho, you live and learn. He was bad for my lungs and bad for my heart. Thank you NML and keep up the good work! 🙂
Mallory,
I don’t know what it is about ACs and campervans. This is definitely a thing though. I think the attraction is that it’s a mobile setting in which to control and create the perfect scenario to heighten your attraction (eg just add a secluded location, sunset and a campfire).
My asshole ex AC bought one 4 months before our baby was born, claiming it would be the “perfect vehicle for family holidays”. What he actually meant was “the perfect vehicle for entertaining strange vaginas in secret”.
Campervans? I thought those were the 80’s? Do guys still think a campervan is cool? Forgive me, I’m over 50.
Here in the UK still very cool and hipster provided they are a certain make and vintage. My brother had a midlife crisis and bought one, not a shagging wagon I might add he is happily married.
One would hope then that it is indeed a shaggin’ wagon. Lucky wife.
Ah, interesting.My latest AC had a hankering for escaping life in a campervan! don`t they like to drift along with no accountability/responsibility? I think they call it “no agenda”.
Afternoon all. So it seems I’m not the only one who was fooled by an AC with a campervan! Ms Determined, what an absolute douche, esp in your circumstance, although I did love your line ‘the perfect vehicle for entertaining strange vaginas in secret”. Reminds me of that garish vehicle in kill bill vol 1, the ‘pussy wagon!’ Why do they make out themselves to be something completely different to what they actually are, it boggles me! If your an AC or EUM have the decency to just be honest with people. Life would be so easy then wouldn’t it 🙂
Mallory,
If they were honest it would look like this:
“I like the way you make me feel whenever I hit a dry spell and need you, I want you in my life but on my terms and when I need you and my laundry done, but I also need to sleep around to bolster my self esteem and have you stay quiet about it and just accept the crumbs I ration out as loaves and you should love that I even pay attention to you at all. Does that work for you honey bunches? Now, can you be available tonight at 2am in case I fail at the bar? AH, you’re such a good sport as long as you stay in line. Did you gain some weight?” They would never get very far. They need to lie to get their selfish self centered using needs met. The world revolves around them you see, and pesky little problems like me and you need to be ‘managed’ while they pursue their single minded agenda. They are con men of sorts.
selkie,
You are so spot on it’s scary. Down right scary.
Selkie… Thanks for the chuckle :)… Yes, we all know them well. It’s all about them,them & more them.
Wow…this so describes my situation. I am always the consolation prize. I have enough crumbs from him to open a bakery!!
Mallory,
I can relate. I pretty much go through life not wanting to wake up. It’s too painful. I don’t want to commit suicide. That would just compound the problem because it would most likely be painful and that’s the problem: the pain. I don’t want anymore pain for myself. I feel I’ve had enough to go around the entire universe. I hope it gets better. The weird thing is, the more more pain I stick with and process, the more I love and appreciate myself, the more I grow. Ah, growing pains.
My ex drove a weird van at one point in his life (not when we were together). He was a complete weirdo. He used me all throughout and never cared or even gave it a second thought. When I expressed my hurt just once, that was it, he was out of there, gone for good. Moved off to the mountains and took up with his ex. I cried for near a year. Still crying in fact.
Peanut:
“I can relate. I pretty much go through life not wanting to wake up. It’s too painful. I don’t want to commit suicide. That would just compound the problem because it would most likely be painful and that’s the problem: the pain. I don’t want anymore pain for myself’
This literally broke my heart. I remember that though it has been years; you need support! Do you have a shrink? Do you have supportive freinds? This worries me!
(((hugs))) You have US here, don’t feel alone, it is a cyber-world thing, but still, you are NOT alone!
dancingqueen,
I do see a therapist. I have a few friends. We all dispersed after college.
I’ve had a real rough year. I am not going to commit suicide. No worries about that. I’d be sad the rest of my life before I did that.
Thanks for the support. The words from BR ladies do make it better, even if only to keep me from crawling back to the ex.
Peanut I really feel for you. I can remember rocking back and forward, hugging my knees to my chest, saying out loud “My pain, my pain.” and not seeing how I would get over it. But after 4 months NC and lots of BR and help from my therapist and my lovely RL friends I feel so much better. I don’t think I am 100% over it and maybe I will never be the trusting naive woman I was. Maybe that isn’t such a bad thing. I honestly believe that the lessons I have learnt from the narc experience have helped me in many areas of my life, not just with romantic partnerships. I know it sounds like a broken record but it really does start with you and the painful business of brutally honest self reflection. Also, the really good bit. The taking care of Peanut for a change bit. This I found very odd and different, but by treating myself better I have higher self esteem and can feel that I am emotionally more resilient than I was before. By doing for yourself some of the things you want a partner to do for you/give to you you treat yourself with love, care and respect. Sending you more cyberhugs!
Victorious,
After the breakup, I cried in a closet non stop for near two days. And have had bits of hysterics for near 11 months. I have, as well, had that rocking back and forth kind of pain. It’s rough. I’ve reached this place where the hysterics are subsiding, but not all the way gone. I am just filled with this overwhelming sadness. I cut contact with my alcoholic father around the same time as the breakup. He was my only living parent. My mum died some time ago, so it gets tough not to have parents in your twenties, though I know I should be parenting myself. I just feel more like an adolescent than a near thirty year old woman.
Take care and Cyberhugs 🙂
Peanut,
I can relate. There have been so many days when I didn’t feel like waking up and sometimes I felt like the sadness would never let up. I’m still feeling it, but I’m in an angry stage now and the adrenaline is pumping. I too hope you have some support. Seeing a therapist has been helpful especially as I’m scared that if the anger stops the full force of the pain will return. I trust her when she says she’ll be there when the anger subsides. She told me that grieving takes time and it can’t be rushed, but there will come a day when you’ll be ok again. I believe her and it will get better for you too. I like the term “growing pains”. Keep growing, one day he will no longer matter to you. Take care of yourself and here’s another hug.
Hi Lilly, the process isn’t linear, the anger will morph into sadness and longing at times, then back to anger and sometimes grief. Just allow yourself the rollercoaster ride and remind yourself that it’s all ok, it’s all going to lead somewhere fantastic even if it doesn’t feel that way right now. Love and hugs.
Thank you jewells. I just read your comment to Nene. It really is true they just do not care one little bit. It’s taken me a long time to absorb that some people can be so cruel as to fake love and affection to get what they want. Words really are cheap. I’m listening to the actions from now on and leaving me stranded really says more than words could ever. This is a mirror of my childhood experience when my father took off. I keep repeating to myself that this is not about my worth, this is not about my worth.
Awh Lilly,
Thank you. I have read some of your previous posts and know you’ve been through a lot. I’m glad it’s getting better. You have a lot to be angry about. I guess I do to. It’s just trying to work all that out and the overwhelming sadness too. Sometimes it just gets so tiring and I just want to live, but problem is I’ve been hiding behind my problems so long I don’t even know what that looks like! Hugs and onwards.
Thank you Lilly, I’ve been following your story even if I haven’t said much, it’s been so sad I didn’t know what to contribute until now. I can identify with your realization about a reinactment of the past. My father took off too, and is soooo disconnected emotionally it’s scary. My mum was very young when they met and got pregnant at 18, so they married ‘to do the right thing’. She had the fairy tale in her head, the reality was another kettle of fish and when he left when I was thirteen I was actually relieved. But I’ve also been very confused and angry about the events of my childhood and the results I’ve had since then. I’m finally putting the pieces together because I don’t want these same results in my future. It’s me I’m now working on, I have a therapist, I read here everyday, I am learning to love myself now. My father was incapable of warm emotion, certainly love, but I’m starting to see that it’s not because I’m not worthy, it’s because he just doesn’t have it in him. It’s not me! I think this has been the greatest revelation for me. I always interpreted my fathers actions as a reflection of me. hahahaha jokes on me, I’m no longer a child where the it’s all about me! This is freedom. The real recognition that other people’s reactions, actions, thoughts and feelings are about them. This realization has been incredibly freeing, I’m just gonna be me from now on cause everyone is going to have there view good bad or ugly ANYWAY, so what the hell. Lilly, Peanut, hold your heads up, things are going to get amazing, truly amazing.
I have been used in every sense.. money, sex, support. Our relationship was on off for years, I didn’t think at the time I was being used just thought I was being a good girlfriend. But I was never treated with the same respect. He had issues and broke up with me last week.. what did I do?! Sent him a message of encouragement. He has some sort of hold over me and I hate it. I hate that I let me wall all over me time and time again.
Lost.. U must start NC immediatly & take your power back. I know its hard, um very hard when you have been with someone for so long, been there done that but I can tell you by experience it is possible. And the longer you stay NC the stronger you will become. U will have good days,bad days & everything inbetween but believe in the process. Good Luck !!
lost,
in actual fact, these guys have no power over us, except for the power we give them, I know, easier said than done, and I have been there too ( for a very long time), but it`s true. You are a person of worth and dignity, regardless of what has gone on in the past, he is a using piece of scum. You know better now, that`s all thats important. Chin up and keep reading BR. Most people on here were/are angry with themselves, me too. It`s a stage, he`s a lesson.
Lost,
For me, it tapped into needing to be needed, or wanted, even when it was disguised, that I was being used. That is the naive part of me. I realize that I shouldn’t do something for somebody that they can do for themselves. And somehow doing something for somebody, i wanted something back in return. Them to validate me, that I was a good person. I have short circuited that today, realizing I have to validate me. That when I turn to someone outside myself to do that I am leaving myself wide open to be taken advantage of by an AC, EUM.
So go NC, and start to validate yourself. His hold over you will shrink day by day!
Exactly. And, even if you don’t feel progress day by day, perhaps week by week. If not week by week, then definitely month by month.
A key part to recovery is to identify a couple of RL friends who can be there for you, but whom you know you share good boundaries with. When I go through my worse, I have a friend whom I will talk to non-stop. If its too much for him, he tells me, but in such a wonderful, non-abandoning way, it almost makes me cry. Its eye-opening to have someone say “no” to you, but still keep you feeling safe. That is an aside. If you can afford it, see a therapist. If you can’t, find yourself a Love Addiction support group. Or, do both. Take yourself out on dates; the kind of dates the EUM never bothered to take you on. Fill the emptiness with acts of self-love. And come back here for all the validation you need!
Espresso. I’ve recently been learning to appreciate what I have, although this may be a very poor example. BUT, ( and I’m going out on a limb possibly offending someone and assuming that you are not living there) women in the Middle East and Most of Africa have it a lot worse because standing up for themselves can mean loss of life. We are fortunate that we have much more choice in the matter. All the more reason to Use It.
Tinkerbell,
So true. So sad when we are in a prison of our own making. Easy for those looking in at us to see it, harder from inside.
Wow, I came across this site by accident and I am so glad I did. Working my way through the end of my third relationship I’ve now come to realise the damage that my first relationship, and my parent’s dysfunctional relationship caused. I truly thought the horrible unhappy relationships I had were normal. My first relationship was a DECADE of me being used. I payed for everything, did everything round the house, was still told I didn’t “give” him enough and that was why I should tolerate his affairs and treatment of me. And this influence has followed me in to the later relationships. I’m now at that point where I’m angry at myself, now that I recognise what I allowed myself to be put through. There is light at the end of the tunnel… but it seems so very far out of reach right now.
Ms. Determined. I’ve got another one for you, general contractor. He gets around a lot, job requirement, after all. Always has an excuse to tell the wife or gf that he’s working somehere-yeah, right. I was used to embellished the lunch breaks. And, most of their customers are women who they deal with much more often than men.
Nice set-up for a pathological, opportunistic, liar/cheat AC.
Tink not sure if you’re commenting from a phone and therefore your comments aren’t showing up under a related thread. Are you looking for a pejorative term for this particular asshole or are you saying he also had a campervan? Or are you comparing him to my would be Romeo?
Whichever though, does that lame asshole care that even the most predictable porno ever made has a better plot than his actual life? Just thinking about his M.O. brought me to a screaming boregasm…yawn.
Well another timely post Natalie. At the gym today, I ran into some friends who suggested I should call my former best girlfriend. I cut contact with the former best girlfriend over two years ago for all the right reasons. Apparently, her partner up and left, three weeks ago. I called and it was the automatic reset button. I went to her house and listened for a few hours as she mourned the break-up. She is in the throws of break-up grief with all the emotional and financial problems. It was surrealistic. We haven’t spoken for at least a year and it was if we took off where we left off. I wanted to go to her house and experience the warmth and care they extended. The house is bare with the break-up. I’m so sad for her and I want to be there for her but I don’t want to be used as her emotional airbag. This is going to give my new found boundaries a good test run. She was there for me so many times when I had no where to go and she was the only one who knew about my involvement with the exMM. I’m really sad for her. The 20-something age gap just proved too much of a difference. Darn it. I’m really feeling their break-up but I know I have to stand firm with my boundaries. She can bust them in a split second.
runnergirl,
she is probably not in a position to re-kindle the friendship in a way you are hoping, quite understandable with what she is going through, so will be impossible to tell if she is back to her old ways or unable to proccess anything but her break up right now.Maybe just listen to yourself and pull back when it starts feeling uncomfortable. having said that, is meeting someone after cutting contact comfortable in the first place?
Thank you sushi, I was anxious this morning until I realized I can enforce my boundaries and pull back, as you say, when I need too. We spoke for over an hour on the phone today and that was okay. Then she proceeded to call three more times throughout the afternoon and evening as per the normal old routine. I didn’t pick up as I’m not going back to the old ways. She definitely has a way of creeping up on me, using me, and catching me unaware. It’s like the exMM or my crackers family, the minute I try to be civil, bam, I’m sucked back into their pain and drama vortex. I knew getting back in touch with her was going to bring up the old stuff and give me the opportunity to see if I can maintain my boundaries. Sheesh, its just so sneaky. I want to be there for here but not at the expense of my well-being. When the phone calls started all afternoon and evening, it reminded me of what I went through with my sister over the holidays. One civil phone call with my sis seemed to open the door to incessant phone calls ranting and raving about everything. So within 24 hours, it’s already been time to stop, look, and listen, step back and adjust my boundaries time.
Boy Natalie, those boundaries sure are handy.
Ms D, this is just a short reply. Very tired here & unwell. I hear what yr saying. It sounds like to you Romeo’s explanation of the casual sex issue has a possibility of being a plausible explanation. Something to me still doesn’t add up & my gut predicts (soz abt this but just being honest) things will ultimately not work out w this this guy. If you have a crack anyway I do hope I’m wrong, but thts my gut feeling on it, based on what u’v shared thus far.
Firstly, it seems implausible to me tht there are a plethora of women out there who only want casual sex & hence who ALL just happened to turn him down developed feelings for them. Sure, some do, but I suspect proportionally, these women are in the minority (unless he was dating nieve early 20 somethings, still getting a few runs on the board & experimenting as they learn what intimate r.ships r all abt).
Secondly, what does that supposed explanation of yr romeo’s romantic history say about his ppl picker & ability to discern who is good r.ship material & who isn’t? I’ll tell u what it says…it says he’s CRAP at this!!
So just THINK… now he’s picking you? (For want of a better way of describing this although you have a say in this). You KNOW yr a top chick right? Hence, don’t you figure some of these women who by his OWN ADMISSION DISCARDED HIM, ONE AFTER ANOTHER were too? I’d bet my Les Paul they almost ALL were (& THAT’s sayin somethin’!). A guy doesn’t, (generally speaking), suddenly date wildly up or down. Thus, if you see yrself as maybe an 8, on what for the purpose of this post only, I’ll call a ‘dating scale’ (measured by all the factors ppl consider, such as job, stability, financial status, health, personality, dare I say looks etc) you can BET all these other women were all around about an 8 on that scale too. Given I’m far too cynical to actually believe they ALL ‘only wanted casual sex’ whilst yr meek shy Romeo DIDN’T (guffaw, YEAH RIGHT! I’m pissing myself that he would even TRY this one. It’s SO transparent & lame, lol) if I were you, I would be questioning why all those other chicks who were every bit ALL THAT as YOU are GAVE HIM THE ASS??! (presuming even that part is true, which I suspect it also may not be).
Him kissing you on date number three also seems like some mighty loose lips for someone proclaiming not to want to get involved in any more casual sex situations! Not very CAREFUL about that was he in the rush to have a pash?! How does he know you wont be interested in casual sex only, by only the THIRD date? What? Because u discussed it & ud SAID you weren’t? PLEASE! A guy GENUINELY not interested in casual sex would not even pash at such an early stage if his story was really true!
I suspect HE has picked up on a ‘tell’ from you. That is somehow gleaning or knowing you LIKE SEX. He MIGHT also know it’s been a while since you’ve had a DECENT prospect (he knows you have STANDARDS remember. He’s already cut his way through a bunch of other cool top chicks JUST LIKE YOU). Aha he probably thought to himself, this is my IN. I must go for the pash & get Ms D THINKING ABT THE GREAT SEX we could be having!!
Nothing is good or bad about any of this & I wont tell you what to do. If you proceed though, you could keep the amber flag at the forefront of yr awareness & treat this encounter as PRACTICE at dating again, with PRACTICE part to be on GETTING OUT if or when a single flag turns red.
To make sure yr being respectful you could also HOLD OFF ON SEX & discuss with him any reservations you may have. The latter is what I would probably do.
Hope that helps a bit 🙂
ZOMFG Teach, a short reply? Tired and unwell? Put yourself to bed woman! BED!
I wish I did not share your misgivings about the situation. I might be a top chick, as you say but, I’m still a top chick on the shelf. (AHA! TOP SHELF CHICK BITCHEZ!). But seriously, my romantic life to date could be more accurately described an unrelenting orbit of douchecopters. Why the fuck should I expect anything to magically change now?
Yes, you and Griz (and Grace, hi Grace!) are singing from the same song sheet. I shall indeed be wearing neck to knee Spanx the next time I catch up with him. I’m sure I’ve exhibited several tells that I like sex (like grabbing his crotch and whispering low and husky in his ear “Let’s get out of here and have sex”? RELAX, I DID NOT ACTUALLY DO THAT (I think)), err where was I? Oh yes. Like I said, I’m not really good at keeping my real feelings hidden. And he needn’t have bothered kissing me to get me thinking about the great sex we could be having. I pretty much think about the great sex we could be having all the time anyway *cough*. Joke, Joyce. Naw really, everything you’ve said is totally spot on, it’s putting it into practice that’s my challenge. And I’m up for it. GOD AM I GAGGING FOR IT.
*cough*
I’m pretty sure he thinks it’s on like Donkey Kong the next time we see each other. But he’s going to be surprised when he meets mineral water sipping, demure, unmouthy, Spanxed-up-so-tight-she-can-only communicate-by-blinking Ms Determined. I’ll soon sort out this guy *cough* one way or the other.
I’ll end with the small bone(r *cough*) I have to pick with you. If we are talking hypothetically here about what number I might be amongst other numbers he might have dabbled with, couldn’t I have at least been a goddamned ten? I mean, it was fucking HYPOTHETICAL.
😉 xxx
I know how hard (ahem( this is Ms D.
I had been single and celibate for 2 years when the narc hit on me and for about 3 years prior had only been having rather reluctant “duty sex” with ex hubby before we split. The opportunity to have sex with someone new, someone I actually wanted. Really really WANTED was so groin tinglingly superb and exciting. I tried really hard to be sensible. I made myself wait for 2 months before sex. WIth hindsight, I probably should have waited longer, because once that happened I was in the “Justifying Zone” You need to read Nats post on this if you haven’t already. It really applied to me and from your posts I reckon it will hit home with you too. It meant I was too invested and so more likely to verlook all the gigantic red flags that were screaming in my face, until i finally had the guts to end it.
Although my relationshit with ex narc near destroyed me, I still can see that I was vulnerable, and that I damn well enjoyed that sex, and that, hell, everything happens for a reason, right?
I am Br educated and can carry that forward for the rest of my life now. Being 47 it is a little late but better late than never eh? I reckon you will make great decisions with new guy and am really looking forward to hearing all about it. If I can’t date myself at least I can live vicariously through my BR sisters dating adventures.
You know what to do Ms D. Follow your gut.
Ah lovely Victorious. Let’s just forget about men and run off together.
Thanks for your encouragement. Of course I will tell you everything. Nudge nudge wink wink.
Excellent! I would love to run away with you. I would actually run away with pretty much anyone at this point but please don’t let that dent your self esteem!!! Actually I think you live Down Under? Which means you live in the same country as my two darling sisters, whilst I languish in the freezing UK. Consider me booked on the next plane. I will come to yours and then we can stick a pin in the atlas and see where we are going next! Woo Hoo!
OMG Victorious – I can so relate to your post. I was celibate for about 3 years after getting divorced and was having the “duty sex” with my ex till I moved into a separate bedroom and he finally left and we got divorced. So i can say I was craving sex but more so I was craving someone to hug and really kiss me, something I never enjoyed with my ex. Anyhow along comes one of my co-workers and expresses interest in me and i think he is around the same age as me (funny thing though he looks older than he is and I look younger than I am). anyway we started an emotional relationship via everyday email and texting which literally got my juices flowing and he had me literally climbing the walls especially when he would “sext” me. now dont get me wrong – i enjoyed it but i didnt condone it but i also didnt object to it – WTF was i thinking? ijust threw caution to the wind and after about a month engaged in what i thought was “earth shattering” sex-not. The thing is where i made my huge mistake was that in the beginning when we were just conversing about stuff in general the subject of sex came up and i made the innocent? comment – “sex?-oh i vaguely remember that i think i had some about 3 years ago.” not thinking that that would put a bullseye on me which read “i need sex come get me”. so anyway this coworker who is younger than me and told me he was single i come to find out he is younger than me and he is married -don’t i feel stupid and foolish and used. And yes i tried to justify the situation that i didnt care for him it was all just for fun etc. NOT I finally got the guts and broke it off with him 2 weeks after i discovered all his dark secrets but none the less I suffered immense guilt, shame, remorse, etc and I went to a place in my life I had never been before and don’t want to go back to. And yes all the red flags were flying at full staff but I ignored them and I didnt set or enforce boundaries – shame on me. But I know better now. I am currently working on my boundaries and have taken an oath – I AM NOT THAT WOMAN – that is my new motto
Thank you Kit Kat for your kind words, I know NC is the only way.
Ms D, re yr comment to Griz, THT is EXACTLY what I’m trying to say also.
If he’s as GREAT as you say, (& even if NOT ‘a looker’) why pray tell, have all these women REJECTED HIM (if they even have)? Mature (in mind) women wouldn’t have rejected him re looks alone ie they thoughts his looks were ok enough to have SEX with him! lol
His ‘story’ sounds like complete BS to me. Just sayin… Watch out cuz I have a strong gut feeling there’ll be more to come (possibly after a blow hot/ honeymoon phase).
Again, I personally wouldn’t even bother with this guy as I see red flags all over.
Up to you though.
Two worst users I ever ecountered, one an ex- friend and the other ex-boyfriend bombarded me with helpfullness when I was at my most vunerable.I ended up feeling so indebted to them both that stomping over my own boundaries though painfully uncomfortable felt like the only thing I could do, as repayment for them being so wonderful to me. It was one of the manipulative tactics narcs use. Never again. In reverse a bit similar to me becoming a doormat in relationships to try to get them to give to me what I wanted, a mutual relationship they didn`t want to/were not capable of giving. Small steps, I try to help people when I can now and accept help only when it doesn`t make me feel uncomfortable and I am not expecting anything back.
Ms.Determined. I’m not on a phone. I’m on a desktop computer. My comments are related to what others have previously stated. i was simply offering another example of what you pointed out. We are talking about BEING USED. Therefore, my comment is related because I gave an example of an instance in which a woman (myself) can be used, just as you did.
Natalie moderates out comments, and lets us know if we are out of line or out in left field.
Again, please don’t think I was having any sort of go. I assumed you were on a phone because when you comment that way (see my comment to you this morning, written on the train, full of typos STOOPID FINGERS) you comment automatically comes in at the bottom of the feed. When you reply to someone’s specific comment by hitting the reply button underneath that comment (rather than scrolling down to the bottom and using the form there) it puts the comment right underneath the one you want to reply to regardless of what time you post or where you are. Apologies if you already know this and feel free to tell me to go suck eggs (mmmm, eggs), but that’s how I’m able to tag this reply to your comment, I’m now on a desktop rather than a phone.
Apologies for the confusamtion and misumaunderstandment. 🙂
Ms.Determined. I’ve noticed my comments are posted much later than others, no doubt due to my location which way affect the way my comments come across as far as timing is concerned. We all go off topic now and then, but we also know that ideally we are supposed to stay within the framework of that topic. Natalie’s topics are so encompassing and are experiences the same that we generally have a lot to say which at times may be only indirectly related to what the subject originally was. But, unusually it is, in some way related. I realize I may have every now and then departed, but I try to come immediately back to what is being discussed. When I brought up my example of General Contractor, I was not even thinking about your campervan example. He has his own business, in which he gets around in his truck quite a bit and far distances at times. His wife would always be calling to check up on him and I would here him telling her he was working — yeah, on me. I was, undoubtedly, one of several women and used. That is why I said what I said and I do hope it is more clear to you and anyone else who thinks my comments are unrelated.
Thank you Sushi, you’re right. I do see it as an addiction as someone else has mentioned. I’ve done Nc before, many times but I know I have take care of myself now.
Wow, this post really resonated with me. I am now 1 month NC with a guy who turned out to be a class A user. In hindsight, I should have been able to see it. All the red flags were there:
1 trying to get with me while he was still in a relationship with someone (I told him let’s just be friends until you are available.turns out as soon as he was technically “available”, he wasn’t really. But more on that later)
2 He was a major future faker, telling me he wanted to get married by this December, first baby in a year etc.
3 EU, although I made so many excuses for him. His first wife passed away a year ago, leaving him with a young child, so I thought he needed time to deal with his issues. Turns out this was just a smokescreen.
4 Pushing for sex very early in the relationship, and when I stood my ground and said no, he started telling me he needed “time” to figure out whether he really wanted to be in a relationship with me.
Natalie is so right, when you are being used, it just doesn’t feel right. I finally had an epiphany one month into the “relationship” that something was just off about this. I was miserable, unsure of myself and beginning to question my own self worth. So I decided to FLUSH this EU/AC and haven’t looked back since 🙂
One of the ways I know I’m getting better is that it has been weeks since I was last on BR. The whole time I was involved with this loser, the only thing that kept me sane was BR. I would spend hours reading all the articles, trying to convince myself that my situation was different. But today I decided to pop by and bam, the article was right on point. Good luck ladies, it does get better, trust me 🙂
I am single and truly happy don’t even miss sex! It took me all of 2012 to get over my divorce and find myself again. It was horse riding that helped me get my confidence back and now I feel fit and well toned thanks to it. Forget gyms I have triceps and other muscles that have definition but are still feminine.I meet all sorts of men via a social group I socialise with and happily rebuff any I am not interested in. Even had one guy tell me if he didn’t like me he’d find me intimidating WTF? He can be pleasant and insulting in the same sentence and isn’t a man I want to like me so he will be weeded out. I now have boundaries and any man that blows cold on me is blown out pronto. I even have work boundaries now and jacked in a short term contract where I was being treated like a skivvy at boot camp. Yes I needed the money but I was being dragged down to a place I didn’t want to go being ignored and unvalued. Yes I am feisty when it comes to men but that sorts the men from the boys. I have my cats and an active life. This morning I lay in bed having woken at 10.00 and enjoyed a cup of tea snuggling under the duvet and thought “life doesn’t get much better than this”. My cats keep me sane and I love my riding which I won’t give up if I meet a man. I am getting a circle of acquaintances and female friends built up through this social group but always have me time as I love my house and cats. I honestly didn’t think I’d get to this place and know that the horse riding helped me enormously. You will get there ladies just keep believing as I divorced a classic EUM who was a lying, philandering, suicidal, mentally unstable sh!t when I was 50. I now go with the flow of life and feel that there are no problems but solutions to situations and am always proved right. Keep believing in yourselves and your worth. Single is not a bad thing when there are so many EUM about.
Feistywoman,thanks for your comment! I’m nearly 50, just out of a marriage of 23 years to a man who was a pathological liar, cruel, mentally abusive and a cheat.I’m ploughing through the mire to get through this and your comment struck a note with me. It gave me hope. You have built yourself a happy fulfilling life and shared that yes there is life after EU’s!!! (I know, we all KNOW there is but on the dark days it’s sometimes hard to believe it)
Tink. MORTIFIED. I think you got the wrong end of the stick. I wasn’t at ALL saying you we’re off topic. Because that would be pure hypocrisy, I am the queen of meandering tangents. And nothing you said was a departure. hell, we’ve talked about campervans. it was because of the position of your comment in the feed That I was genuinely confused! And for you and anyone else who might ever feel as if I direct a little saltiness their way, I apologise unreservedly. It’s not you, it’s ALWAYS the subject matter. Reading about assholes makes my ass cranky.
Sorry Tink, please go back and read my original comment and imagine me smiling conspiratorially with you. That’s how it was meant. Xxx
Hello everyone, I came across this site asking questions about my relationship. It has helped me enormously. I am 41, separated 4 years with three lovely children. I met the man of my dreams two years ago and he has gradually taken away my self esteem piece by piece and I let him. Like many of you I am a professional woman and I was full of hope and life when I met him. I have struggled to let go, it is rather embarrassing. Friends and family don’t understand why I can’t. Am in NC with him now, he is angry with me now because of MY behaviour. Reading the posts here is a lifeline. I have met a lovely guy who wants a full relationship but I can’t shake the comparisons to my fantasy relationship with my ex EUM who never wanted to meet my family, would say things like ‘you would need major surgery to keep me interested’ (joking) and chat up women in front of me in pubs (to show me he could) I was so weak and his excuses were so plausible it is pathetic. I became one of those women I used to pity. I would like to break my cycle of emotional unavailability with him and try to have a real relationship with the lovely new guy who knows everything and has been patient and kind but it is difficult and I know he won’t wait forever on me to get over my ex. He has been there for me for a year. Hard to stop myself wanting the AC. Aargh good to write this down.
Hi, Marianne. I feel you. For the year after the exMM broke up with me, but kept me at arm’s length as a friend, I kept taking his crumbs, and have been totally emotionally unavailable for a new relationship. I don’t think that the problem is with our “love” for the exMM/AC/whats-his-butt. The problem is that we poor women have given away our connections to our own needs. We no longer know what we want! Over the last year, I’ve had some slightly more decent guys come in and out of my life, and I’ve had some “relationships” on the surface over the last year, but even the one that seemingly could give me what I needed could not compare to the highs I got from the stupid emails from “my friend” the exMM. I don’t know what to say, since I think that we each come have to come to the fully-embodied realization that ENOUGH IS ENOUGH in our own ways. You will get there. Its going to take time for the AC to get out of your head, even with NC (that’s the best and the only way to sort this out). I hope that you can take time to figure out what YOU want for YOURSELF, not for the nice new guy. Be patient with yourself. If you feel like you are stringing the new guy along, say you need a break.
I wish this article came out 3 years ago. I have been very supportive. Went out of my way to show care. Unselfishly and unconditionally loved. Put him before myself. He was appreciative and he reciprocated consistently for the firsy year. Year two it was most of the time. Year three he is off and on, hot and cold. And this is why I wish I read this article sooner. Because right now I feel i may have been strung along.
Met a MM who was unhappy in his marriage for years. They tried counseling and separation but it didn’t help. Along comes silly me. We hit it off at work. Told him to tell his wife or lmk when he did bc I felt guilt for not doing things the right way. Before he could tell her he got blasted and caught. Before he got caught he was awesome. After he got caught he was like a deer with headlights in his face. We still carried on and things were good for the most part. But after a year I began to feel like I was tired of being a secret to his close friends and family. But he was going thru the divorce process and I understood that our relationship might affect his divorce. So we decided to go from talking future together to something more casual. This lasted a year. But it seemed like he kept taking more and more away from us. Everything wss on his terms. When HE wanted to spend time together, where HE wanted to hang out (mostly indoors because he didn’t want people seeing us), and he started to stop communicating like we used to.
As his divorce got closer, he wad more of an emotional wreck. He would come to see me once or twice a week and say he loved me and cared for me and things felt comfortable to him. But ehen ever I would ask to talk or hang out out of the blue he would get frustrated and say he had lots to do with paperwork and the divorce. Fine. Next time I asked to actually PLAN a day where we could hang out instead of him just asking me last minute to do something. He got frustrated but agreed. We had a great time and he confessed he was stressed and how he wants to have a healthy normal relationship and he knows right now he can’t fully be the man I want him to be bc he has to focus his energy on himself but he just needed some space. That’s fine.
Flashforward a week later. I hadn’t asked to do anything with him. He calls and says hes free amd wants to hang out at the movies. We have a nice time. Hes texting me on the regular, etc.
As a side note, he moved into his own place a year ago and still hasn’t unpacked. Its a mess and mail piled up all over the place. His kids are over there 3 days a week. Hes been bitching about his place being a mess and it makes him feel irritated. But guess what, after a year of living in that unpacked status, the feeling of disorganization builds. I offered to help but he declined. He doesn’t know where his important papers are and then he gets pissed and grumpy but just brushes the paperwork aside for later. He waits to the last minute for deadlines which makes him more stressed. Instead of dealing with all his responsibilities, he runs away from them til he is deeper in the hole. Whoa….rant. Anyways, my side note point is that for a whole year he said he was gonna get his life cleaned up and organized and I was under the impression he was for a whole year.
Three weeks ago after he had watched a soccer game with friends, I asked him what he was doing after. He said prob nothing. So I asked him of he wasn’t too tired or didn’t have things to do at home if he wanted to see a late movie. He got pissed and was abrupt. He said No bc I’m not putting off my deadlines anymore! I said no need to get upset bc it was just a question and I wasn’t upset. He said it frustrates him to always have to tell me no. Idk if he meant he felt guilty having to tell me know or if he was tired of me asking to spend time when it wasn’t initiated by him. I told him that a relationship is a two way street and things shouldnt just be on his terms. All I know is that I must have set a time bomb off inside him because after this he was angry and jerk offish.
We talked a few days later and he started acting like a complete ass. He was pointing out negative things in HIS mind about our relationship. He said he still carried the burden of guilt from how we started out. I told him we can’t change the past. He said he feels guilt and shame that his friends and family will judge him. I said if they truly cared for you, theyd want you to be happy and not judge. He said hes scared his kids will blame him for the divorce and if they found out from their mom that he was still with me that they would be crushed. I told him that he doesn’t know what the future holds. He said he know his soon to be ex and that he feels she would use her power to make his kids think hes a bad person. I told him that he has lips too and he can speak openly with his kids or at least continue to let them know he will always be there. He said when he and his wife separated, they sat their kids down and they told the kids that “Dad lied to Mom and made her sad, so now he has to leave.”. I told him that placing blame on him wasn’t fair, especially when they both were unhappy. He said his kids wouldnt understand that. Although theyve been in counseling after the separation….almost 2 years. He said hes too scared to take that chance of them hating them and that he feels guilty. He said they would love me but he fears they would blame him. He said he is so impressed with what an awesome partner in life I would make but he doesn’t know how to deal with the guilt. He said he cares so much for me, his feelings have always been genuine, hes never used me…. (sure feels like it). He said he doesn’t want to get my hopes up but maybe after his divorce or in the future we can have our relationship amd happy ended we were wanting together. (Shut the frick up).
I was devastated. I felt like he was more interested in appearing like the good guy instead of facing the truth and allowing us to come out of the dark. Like he cares more about peoples opinions. I felt used because I gave my love amd trust and when I had own doubts and feelings of guilt, he would tell me to have faith amd confidence in us. And now that his divorce is ending, I feel like he hasn’t taken his own advice. I feel like hes throwing me under the bus by projecting and indirectly placing blame on me. He asked if I wanted to live in secret forever. I said NO but I would hope that eventually after the divorce that we could take it step by step to not have to live that way! And what kind of dumb question is that? He said as his divorce nears an end, he wants to be excited about introducing someone new in his life and that right now with the conditions that he doesn’t feel totally comfortable. Ok, so now its my fault? I’m the black sheep that you’re ashamed to tell people you care for? I told him to stop feeling sorry for himself and to come clean because his guilt will be the ultimate death of us. He agreed and said he wants to work on that. He said right now we don’t have a healthy or normal relationship. Well no shit sherlock….But the goal was to get shit straightened out so that we CAN.
The last two weeks have been a mix of anger and sadness from me. And from him, pride and lack of empathy…..self preservation. He said it was cool to text. So I sent a good morning here and there. Just a few days ago he was textin me regularly. But He never responded so I asked him wtf did you say it was cool to text of you were gonna ignore it. He got enraged and said maybe we should try not to be friends at work because we don’t know how it will affect us. I said fine, throw away your best friend. He got angry and said he wasn’t throwing away his best friend but if that’s what I think then so be it. Then he said HE FELT USED. What the heck? Told him i understood he was going thru a lot but was tired of his rollercoaster ride of emotions and lash outs. I asked him if were friends, enemies, not talking? what?! No response.
I emailed him and told him how I felt. I told him I was confused and upset. I told him his words were hurtful. . I told him that he was so ambiguous in his words and toTELL me straight up where we stand. He never responded. So I emailed him and told him I was not going to initiate contact with him….not now but maybe after his hearing. Told him he needed to read and truly put himself in my shoes as ive been in and out of his more than my own. He responded saying he received my email and needed time to think how to respond. And he didn’t want me to think he was being selfish or did not care. I remained true to the NC.
A week later I see him at work for the first time and he approaches me and starts friendly chat. I wasn’t rude and answered. He said I looked nice and was laughing and smiling like I knew him before all the drama. It was weird. Then he said sorry he was being an asshole the last few days and that he needs to clean up his life. Then one second later he changes the subject. He probably needed to blurt that sorry out to make himself feel better. I didn’t acknowledge his sorry. I chatted for a few minutes then walked away. He said it was so nice seeing me and blah blah. I smiled and said bye. The next day made the previous day seem like it was all a dream because when I saw him he was cold and in the asshole mode again. He was snappish when he approached me. I walked away but told him don’t ever disrespect me ever again because I’m not going to put up with asinine and asshole ways. I told him that he keeps saying he cares about me but yet he acts and talks like a jerk whenever hes having a bad day. I told him to treat me like a human not a fricken emotional punching bag! He put his head down.
The nexr day I could tell he was having a stressful day and he looked tired. But when we passed in the hall he was cordial and asked how my day was going. I replied and asked him how his was going. I walked away to start my weekend off. Do I still miss him? Yes. Do I think hes just going thru physical and emotional trials with the divorce? Maybe. Do I think he used me? WELL…. Until he communicates properly and consistently (which i think he got complacent about for the last 6 months)with me like an adult without being defensive……yes I still feel like I might have been used. Will he ever kick male pride to the side and truly see and hear my feelings AND wanna share his feelings in a more positive light? Prob not. He’d probably feel more comfortable talking and being honest to a blowup doll than me at this point. Hmmm…. that’s basically what I’ve been when you look at it……except EYE have feelings.
Sorry he rant was so long:(
What also added to my hurt by that user was after being there for him and being a friend to him. After he finally came out and said he had met someone new, following weeks of being “busy” when I enquired what’s with the distance.
I was also told that he didnt “want to have a relationship with someone like me” and he had “seen better”.
That hurt me to the core and was my wake up call
Nene
You said you put him first and were unselfish but is that really true?
Is it not that you were hoping with the “unselfishness” to reap the reward of getting the wife role?
He was awesome in the beginning because he was playing a role, he was being prince charming while someone else was picking up after him and taking care of his kids at home. I doubt very much that he ever had any serious intention of telling her or leaving her. And now you are a reminder of the shame of his crappy behaviour, the loss of something he did not value at the time, but probably now regrets. He isn’t wrong in that his children will blame him and you for the breakup of their parents marriage. Having you around is a constant reminder of his own assclown behaviour. It doesn’t sound like he can get past that; it isn’t that he doesn’t want you per se, it is that you are associated with the failure of his marriage.
Nene, I’ve been in your position to a degree. He doesn’t care about you, he is lying, he never intended to leave his wife for you, he is a liar and a cheat, is lacking “integrity honesty backbone and balls”, he is no prize. Now maybe think of it this way – his wife found out, she’s divorcing (divorced) him. How easy is it for a woman to walk away from a marriage? esp with kids? Not Very. She has come to the conclusion that he is not going to change, that he completely lacks character and that she’s better off alone raising her kids than she is to be with him. Think about this. Trust me, he’s a booby prize. He may SAY all kinds of other things about himself or how he feels about you or how he sees the situation. But what do his actions say? Words are cheap. I learned this the hard way myself. These jokers aren’t worth the space they occupy, they are not worth allowing space in our minds, hearts or life. NC his ass and give yourself a chance for real happines…
All the best, we’re here for you 🙂
Need some feedback here. (Other than how stupid I was and am.) I’m still ‘caught’ with focusing too much on him and feeling bad about me and I think I’m starting to see the light…but I guess I’m slow.
Started talking with him about a year ago. Liked him…started chatting more…found out he was married and told him to hit the road. No excuse to be saying to me the crap he was saying to me and being married too.
He contacted me back in October. Told me his marriage was over and he’d told her this…that they were just living together for financial reasons now and gave me a time frame of about two more years till she finished school. We started chatting…he pursued quite heavily. This was all online. Spent time on this game we both play, then a couple of other games and chat programs. He sent me a video cam so that we could Skype together and spent a lot of time online together. He was coming up here to visit…told me he’d gotten his passport and wanted to come visit before the snow came.
Things were pretty good for a time…about a month or so. Then I noticed some discrepancies and things that hinted towards him not being entirely truthful. He’d turn off the camera when she came downstairs .. told me that he didn’t want the complications. Told me he’d looked into the cost of a passport and it was too expensive .. (this was a month after he’d told me he’d gotten it already) .. so I looked up the cost .. 40$ for a driving one. Not that expensive.
He stopped showing up so much. Like, in the beginning if he wasn’t going to be online .. and we had plans to watch a movie together or something .. he’d tell me why. Tell me how much he missed me and such. He stopped doing this. Just wouldn’t show and when I’d ask what happened, he’d say things like “Don’t ask me that. I get enough of that kind of crap here”.
(Yeah, I know .. should a flushed him right then .. but by that time I was hooked into what I guess was the fantasy.)
A few weeks ago, he tells me on this game we both play, that he’s decided he has feelings for the lady he was seeing before me (she’s also married). When I commented that she’s married .. he tells me its ‘only for financial reasons and not a real relationship’ .. so I ask the husband and am told quite the opposite .. but now this guy (not the husband, the one I was with) and this lady are now really mad at me.
I find out today that a few of the ideas that I had had for the game .. that I discussed with him .. he and this new/old/whatever lady are now doing … and I’m thinking .. “yep.. can’t come up with your own.. was this why you laid it on so thick in the first place?”
I find myself thinking about him. I haven’t talked to him since, haven’t talked to her since .. quite frankly the whole thing truly disgusts me .. and I find myself feeling embarrassed and stupid for ever believing him in the first place. Yet, I still wonder if he’s turned into the nice guy he was at the beginning…only this time for her .. and wondering how long this one will last this time (he’s broken up with this lady apparently a few times in the past) and yes .. I wonder what the hell is up with me for trusting, believing, caring for him in the first place.
I have read through this site almost religiously. Read the bit about online relationships .. the day before he broke it up for me .. I had told him I was looking for jobs in a city that is closer to him… an hour away and I wonder if this is why he broke it up…I was getting too close. I find myself second guessing myself a lot with this…I emotionally and physically isolated myself over the past 4 months of seeing this guy .. fell back into age-old behaviors of the little girl self of times past. I’m still planning on moving to this city…too many other pluses to not do it.
Anyways .. yes .. feedback would be appreciated because I figure I’m wearing a lot more of his crap than I need to .. and I can’t talk about this with anyone here.
Taira You need to flush this guy from your mind. MM lie to their wife, their mistress and their other women. They even lie to themselves I’m sure. They claim financial reasons but many times that isn’t true. The whole relationship was an illusion and now you need to move on, make a fresh start and find someone who can actually have a “real” relationship with you. Every moment you expend on this POS takes away from having happiness and peace.
Tairaruth, people change when they want to change, have the capacity to make it happen and are willing to commit to seeing it through and really changing their patterns. If he’s carrying on with this equally married woman and sneaking around behind his wife’s back, nothing has changed. If he’s been shady all along, he certainly wasn’t a nice guy at the beginning! I would take some time before deciding to move, be 100% honest with yourself about why you want to and definitely go out and see friends. I think if you go out and have a lot of real-world fun with the people in your life, nothing about this asshat penpal is going to seem very appealing! Hope this helps 🙂
Girl, you need to read Nat´s book on fantasy relationships asap! This is going nowhere and there is no way it ever will, so get rid of the illusions. Online doesn´t work. There are bunches of weirdos who will establish virtual emotional and even sexual relationships with trusting women just to boost their ego, don´t fall into that trap! It´s a complete waste of time and self esteem killer.
For all we know, he may be married and having an online harem at the same time. There are lots of guys who do this. A cousin´s friend began chatting with a guy in Norway, they were supposedly madly in love and skyped every day. Finally, she went over to meet him (all the way from Chile, mind you) and there she found out that he was married with kids and intended to keep her handy in some appartment for some shags now and then. So yes, that was the end of it but she wasted almost a month living in lalaland. Don´t do it. Just flush him, you´ll feel so much better about yourself.
I meant almost a year, not a month.
Taira,
Your main concern should be that he is married and lives with his wife.
This situation is so wrong, on so many levels.
Taira
Fantasy relationship. Step away from the computer and get out the house more. I’m not being snarky, been there done that. It’s like being addicted to computer games. It’s not real and you can get it out of your head quite quickly I find when you realise that.
Taira,
What dodgy behaviour you’re seeing from this man — and take it from someone who knows — is just the topmost crystal on the topmost tiny arm of the the topmost tiny snowflake on the topmost peak of the top of the thousand-tonne iceberg that has 80% of it hidden below the surface.
There just aren’t any mighta-beens or shoulda-beens here to muse on. There is no nice guy here. No, not even in the beginning — that whole thing was the planned set-up to see what he could get out of you. And no, not even for the new/old/whatever woman he, um, ‘decided’ he had feelings for after all. Wow, I’ll bet she’s really happy with her prize.
This game-player, literally, went on to show you exactly what he is. If you’re looking for something different — for example a man who’s not a bald-faced liar, a manipulative cheat, a selfish grasping con-artist — you won’t find it there, because that’s all he is.
Taira, I’m with this thread on all counts. My 2 cents is – what the hell is with this common ‘I need two years to extract myself from my current relationship’ crap? I’ve seen this in these threads on many many occasions, and this is the timeline crap I was also fed. Im my subsequent research on affairs, I discovered that the ‘average’ length of an affair is two years, correlation? The timeline crap fed to us is a good one, it’s short enough for a feasible horizon to see, but long enough for keeping our needs at bay – the natural ‘relationship’ hallmarks, and landmarks are put on ‘hold’ ‘due’ to this aforementioned ‘complication’. They’re off the hook for expectation of meeting the legitimate needs of a relationship while delaying our gratification to the carrot on the end of the ‘two year string’. ABSOLUTE CRAPPOLA. And tells you that they know EXACTLY what they are doing in that they using you. It’s undeniable at this point. This is one of the reasons I am happy the exMM’s wife kept him – he still denied that he was using me at the end. However, evidence says he knew exactly what he was doing – she can keep him if she really wants, just as long as he stays away from me.
To add, he denied using me, denied lying (except to himself of course…) and was upset that I was saying all these ‘horrible things about him’. What, like ‘cowardly ass’, ‘liar’, ‘user’, ‘playa’? I’m not sure what the problem was, only calling it like I lived it…Asstwat (and I did’t even call him names, just his behavior) lol
Ok, maybe ‘cowardly ass’ was name calling tee hee
Oh, and Tiaruth, nobody here will tell you that you are stupid or anything along those lines. The reason we’re all here is for this exact type of situation. The worst we’ll do is tell you straight up what we think, though it may not be pretty. But sometimes we all need a little ass kicking to buck up and take our power back. If you can take it, we can give it. We also provide love comfort and sympathy as required 🙂
Jewells, for the record, I got the two-year timeline as well (youngest kid leaving home line). Like you, I was surprised to see similarities in these unique affairs. Of course, once the magic two-year date approached, the goal post shifted. That was the beginning of the end. For some reason it took two years for me to realize I was allowing myself to be used. Also for the record, my experience tracks yours. He denied using me and denied lying to me, although obviously (now) he had to be lying to me as well as his wife as well as his kids and I had to be lying to me too.
Cowardly ass is a gentle description in my book. Stoopid me. Fooled once.
So Tiara, we can all say flush and run. It’s not going to end up well given the deception but you may have to live it to learn it. I hope not for your sake. Flush, block, delete, and run. Let him continue his game playing with whoever.
I’m going with ‘fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me’. He got me once, now I have BREducated and BRVaccinated against this situation in the future 🙂 I’m actually at a point where I’m happy it happened. It’s taken almost 5 months (but it was only a 2 month situ to heal from), I knew all along this is where I wanted to wind up and indeed I am. I have come to the realization that I was lacking education in this precise area, and that this ‘epiphany relationship’ was exactly what I needed to launch me into focusing on a part of myself and my life that I have completely neglected. I am no longer sad, no longer angry, no longer confused. Not saying I’m perfect, but certainly better equiped to deal with certain aspects of life and these clowns…:)
Runnergirl, never say stoopid. You, like myself, and every woman who has found herself here, are a very intelligent woman. I know it sucks that we got fooled, but it’s not due to lack of smarts. How did we get our smarts? Through study, hard work, experience. Well, we experience assclown, we then put in the hardwork of studying what happened, and now we’ve added to our smarts! It was our empathy, our generosity, our trust and faith in the goodness of our fellow man that got us here. Now we know better to be more careful where we place those things from now on. Experience, that’s all.
Tiara I’m sorry but my only thought when reading your story was insanity. The whole thing, complete drama in an online world. Here’s what I think is the main running theme of BR, focus on what you are doing wrong that’s the only way you will change. Who cares what this married online weirdo says or does. What are you doing? That is the moment I started changing for the better, when I started focusing on my own ‘crazy, insane’ actions, not the other persons.
SM
I agree – we set ourselves up for failure and then feel hurt and inadequate when -guess what- it fails. Life is hard enough without making it harder for yourself by getting involved with married/online/long-distance/alky/known philanders etc.
Amen. Also, many of us get caught up in whether or not this AC/EUM/MM/Person-of-Addiciton is truly a malevolent user, or whether he’s just lost, etc, and doesn’t realize how unhappy he makes us. I did that for a long time with the exMM. In many ways, he’s a decent guy. He’s facing the end of his marriage, going through a separation, having to mind two small kids… its no joke, and I feel bad for him. But, BUT BUT BUT, I’m UNHAPPY. He makes me UNHAPPY (or he did, up until a couple of weeks ago, before I started NC, again for the umpteempth time). Sure, maybe these guys aren’t the Devil, but we are still wasting our time trying to get milk from a stone. We have to look at ourselves and ask why we distract ourselves with the impossible. Is this a pattern? I know that when I was a kid, it felt safer to deny my needs and hide in my room and lose myself in the fantasy world of my book than it was to take the risk and ask for what I wanted. This is playing out in ALL of my adult relationships. So much easier to take crumbs, as long as there is no risk. Ask youserself, what do you REALLY want? Can’t you get it from someone else, or more importantly, from yourself? I think that the answer is YES! You just have to sit still long enough, and not throw yourself at the mercy of the AC’s distracting drama everything you start to feel uncomfortable with yourself. You can do it!
Ms. Determine. Thank you for your patience and tolerance of my having a bit of an attitude. One of the things I’m working on is trying to quit thinking people are dissing me. The last couple of days I’ve crossed words with my sister, my bf, and one of my dearest friends all over minor infringements. I’ve been told that I habitually set up an extended scenario of being persecuted and it never occurs to me that everything is not about ME! People have their own issues totally unrelated to the fact that I even exist. LOL! I don’t know why but I sure am exploring this with my therapist. Thanks a million for the posting tip. I certainly did not know about this and will look into what I am doing wrong during my typing. Sorry.
Lord help me! I just discovered what you are talking about, Ms. D. Jeez! I cannot even believe that in all this time I did not even notice the “reply”, clearly printed BELOW EACH POST. I knew I wasn’t very tech savvy, but this is pathetic. I’ve got it, now. So glad you pointed this out to me. THANKS!!!
AHA! So glad we’re still friends.
I know, I hate technology, and it’s a huge part of my work. First step, using the reply button. Next step, recoding the entire internet!
Hey Tink, like all of us here, sometimes we’re a little slow putting our finger on what precisely the problem is….but we’re all getting there in the end 🙂
Thanks, Jewells. Rooting for you, Babe. We’re gonna be fine.
I don’t know how to not be used. Much of the only attention I got from my father was when he was using me. He admittedly used me as a toddler to pick up women. Because I “was so cute.” Ha. Funny. My ex constantly told me how ‘cute’ I was as he constantly used me in a variance of ways. I couldn’t see it all until near 10 months out of the relationshit. But now that I do I feel caught with my knickers down and down right humiliated. I feel down. The ex was so tall he constantly had to ‘look down on me’ when I talked, as he did in a figurative sense too.
He used me to get back at his ex who broke up with his psycho ass, because well, he’s psycho. He was so pitiful with all this potential, I just thought I could love the pitiful out of him and he’d magically grow wings and fly to his potential on his rightful pedestal up in the clouds right next to me and we’d live happily ever after in our dreamy world in the clouds. Nope. None of it happened like this. Reality:
He flaunted me around his and his ex’s mutual friends and on facebook where she was sure to hear and see about our tryst. He seduced the crap out of me pushing all the right buttons when in actuality he was impotent most of the time. We NEVER even had sex. Not once. Not even close. He dry humped me once or maybe twice and it was real weird and humiliating, not in the least to say, very,very unsatisfying.
Sheer torture for me. He was on so many drugs, he didn’t feel the brunt of anything. I did. He flaunted me in front of his family as to show them he wasn’t a complete fuckup and could hold a proper girlfriend. He can’t. He is a complete fuckup. In every sense of the word. He’s a vile human being who is an opportunist who doesn’t even know how to relate to women on a half decent scale.
His ex took him back and my blood just boils at that. I think how could she be so stupid…and then I pull the reins back again and think what am I really trying to say? HOW COULD I HAVE BEEN SO STUPID???!!!!
You know that he did you a favor, right? You said it yourself… you felt humiliated and unsatisfied with him. It doesn’t sound like he’s motivated to change, so I doubt that you would have felt differently had you a more secure “hold” on him. I know it feels rough – you’re not only processing the loss of the idealized version of this man, but you have to confront the boundary-busting you did while with him. I’m probably only a few days ahead of you in my recovery (from someone who left me no option, as he jumped straight from his unhappy marriage into the home and arms of another OW), but you soon get to be free of thinking about this drama. It will happen. I’m feeling better every day (ok, maybe not every day, but every week… that’s for sure). Good luck!
Thanks amanda,
You’re right. I was unsatisfied throughout the entire dalliance. In fact I wanted out most of it, but felt so much guilt. I was starving in it, but a diet of inconsistent relationshit crumbs will do that to you.
Hello BR followers! I have been reading for about a month and have started NC with an EUM/AC (still not really sure which one he is) since last week. I am now one week and three days NC! Feeling good but sometimes weak and definitely sad and miss him. Also confused about what went wrong and why he doesn’t want to contact me anymore. Anyways, trying to work through those thoughts on my own and push them out I my mind without making contact because I have asked him before he cut contact ad was pulling back what was goig on and why and then just true to be calm and cool but he just disappeared. I am loath to look anymore desperate than I already have so this sight has been immensely helpful. Anyways, please wish me luck as I carry on with this (still in a state of grief and confusion). My goal is one month NC. I’ll post again soon, hopefully with a success update. Still wish I could understand why he doesn’t want to talk to me anymore an why he had to be so cruel about it (just disappearing.. What’s up with that? I can’t believe anyone would be that rude)
Hi Newbie. Disappearing is the typical MO of the EUM because it means he can just disconnect and avoid dealing with his feelings and your feelings in reaction to his complete inability to take responsibility for his own actions. My ex EUM/AC used to do this all the time, then resurface weeks later, press the reset button and act like nothing happened. NC is really the way to go, so well done for initiating that.
I know its confusing and the temptation is to seek answers, but the reality is there are no answers for why these guys act the way they do other than as a means of getting as much as they can from you and then ducking out when they can no longer handle the pressure.
The good news is that the longer you remain NC, the easier it will get, and one day you will be able to think about him without feeling upset and angry at yourself, but instead recognizing that his behaviour is a reflection on HIM and not you. Good luck 😉
Thank you so much for the response! Yes, the confusion is the most difficult part and I’m trying really hard not to keep thinking about what I did wrong. Went to a counselor and she said I did nothing wrong, but it is difficult to believe that when feeling down. 1 week 5 days NC now. Hoping it gets easier. THanks for the support 🙂
Grace … you rock. Always love your sensibility.
Grace and Ms.D
Never married is ok; never having had a serious relationship by middle age is not unless the dude was career military or something. My stalker told me he had never been in a serious relationship and he was 62! A multitude of red flags soon followed.
A couple of years ago, I met a lovely man online and we instantly fell into an intimate e-mail exchange. I knew then, and it has since been confirmed, that these “intimate exchanges” are red flags unto themselves. When we finally met, I knew that I was not attracted to him, but this man had already fallen in love with me. He was approaching his mid-40’s, and had never had a serious relationship, or really, any relationship, other than a few-month fling, here and there. He was a sweet man, but very timid, and unfortunately, his physical make-up rules him out for most women who go by “type” (he was very small, slender, and is a person of color). In talking to him, it became clear that he would meet women on-line and would fixate on them for years, and contrive some kind of fantasy-relationship with them through correspondence…. and he was targeting me, without at all being malevolent about it. It made me sad to see a man so stunted and so full of fear. It was sobering, as I was in a “casual” fling with the MM who drove me to find BR (Hallelujah), and I proceeded to engage in a fantasy relationship with him up until recently. Argh. What is it about this modern age? The internet really facilitates fantasy relationships, although I am not blaming it. Anyway, with no-Relationship-Man, I tried to be very candid with him about how I was not attracted to him, despite finding him nice. I didn’t want to put him in “the friend zone” (which I have learned is a term much used by men in the dating world, which implies that they have been rejected for sex, but only offered friendship), I had to talk him through a couple of stormy weeks when he was obsessed with having me. It was so odd, being on the other end of the fantasy relationship. To this day, I am still wary of keeping up a friendship with him, even though he’s cooled way down, because I don’t know if I am still feeding his fantasy or not. He’s only told me about trying to revive another e-mail relationship with a woman who (to my ears) used him for sex in the past. I think that he even told his mom that we were dating, when I met her a few times. Its so weird. I feel like, with having things start on the internet, you lose track of what is real and what is fantasy. Between this poor man, and the exMM (who posed as single online) I hope never to meet anyone online again!
Lilly … Been thinking about you dear. Hopefully with therapy, you’ll be able to pinpoint the true source of the pain. Sometimes, it’s not what we think it is. And when we get to the core, peel those layers, Remove that baggage, it gets easier. Really. Really. Go with your feelings, whatever they are, when they arise. It seems daunting, but life as it has been is even more daunting, huh? I remember sitting in my therapists office bawling my eyes out saying, “but when do I start doing the work? When do I get better?” She smiled and tenderly said, “you all ready are.” Boy was she right. Sending you love and hugs!!!!
Loj, it truly is daunting. It’s only been 9 days since being stranded, but I’ve seen my therapist twice already! I’ve just severed the last connection to him so now the work really begins because I can feel the pain building up. This emotional instability is unsettling, but you’re right no more daunting then before. Now where are those tissues….. Thank you so much for your support.
Lilly, keep those tissues handy, it’s weird how the emotions will well up at the darndest times. Do your best to let them run, cause if you do they pass quicker. I’m finding that the moments are less and less frequent, and the duration shorter and shorter. And there is always a message buried within, so allow yourself to feel and take in the message it brings with it. Honor your feelings they are there to inform you.
Ms. D. Hahahahaha! You’re as nutty as me. Senior moments.( You may be too young for them), but, in my case? Never ending. LOL!
I discovered baggage reclaim after being cruelly disposed of after a 2 year relationship as the other woman. Although I’m in a happy and very mutual relationship now but I still get so much out of reading this column. It always has something meaningful for me about what I experienced as well as something that affirms the new path I’m on. Once again, this was a great post. Only wish I could have read and been open to the messages of this blog before I embarked on the “other woman” path that caused me so much heartache. Keep up the good work, Natalie!
Thanks Mymble…
All that you said about me being a reminder of the failure of his marriage feels about right. I agree thatd what is going on in his head. I guess I feel like I’m getting all the poop of his marriages demise because he’s too cowardly to come clean about things. He has said that no matter if he tells people the truth, (which he still says they both were miserable for many years) that they would only see the affair part and run amuck with that. So yes, I agree with you Mymble. He can’t seem to get past that. Who knows if he ever will or if he wants to try.
As for me being unselfish, I see what youre trying to say. I can’t say I wasn’t hoping to be an exclusive partner, because I was. I was under the impression he wanted out of the marriage but yes, that doesn’t make it any better. They had both wanted out but keeping up appearance to family/friends was very important to her. Whilst we were seeing eachother, he did tell her on three occasions that he was unhappy and wanted out and she said she understood. She asked him if he was positive and he said yes. Thats when they agreed on a trial separation to be sure. But like you said Mymble, I feel he was dragging out having to tell her the truth about us. He actually admitted he would prefer SHE pull the plug so that he will feel less guilt. NOW look….guilt on guilt on guilt.
Thanks Mymble for your advice and words of wisdom.
You really said all that I felt in a very shorter version compared to my mini novel post above:)
Nene
I am on both sides of this equation in a way. It is very difficult to understand, from the outside of a long marriage, what brings people together and what causes them to stay. I struggle with understanding my own motivations never mind anyone else’s. Whatever he told you will have been a deliberate and/or unconscious misrepresentation. Bringing a marriage to an end is (or has been for me and others I know who have been through
this) gut wrenchingly painful and shameful thing. The shared history, children, finances, relatives.
I am not saying this to excuse him AT ALL, he is a weak, dishonest and immature person who is blameshifting and projecting his discomfort about his own behaviour on to you. But this is why getting involved with married people is such a bad idea; you really DON’T know what you’re stepping into.
There was something Natalie said along the lines of “These married men bite off more than they can chew” – that’s exactly it. This guy is literally choking and running around in a panic trying to avoid the pain and consequences of his actions. He thought he could manage everything to his own convenience and timetable, but guess what, neither you nor his wife can be controlled, managed and manipulated indefinitely.
He isn’t going to man up anytime soon, or possibly ever, and if and when he ever does it probably won’t be with you.
Sometimes there’s a tendency to hang on because you feel you’ve invested so much time and energy on this person surely there must be some way of getting a return on all that. That’s a fallacy though, the time and energy already spent is in the past and you can’t get it back; you have to think solely about where you are NOW and what will work for you going forward. In this case I do not think he will ever be a good partner for you. He needs to deal with his demons ON HIS OWN, and if he doesn’t deal with them then they will haunt and taint any relationship he has with you too.
Here here Mymble, that’s the exact conclusion I came to. He is completely untenable to me now. If he and his wife fail to make it work, it’ll mean that he won’t change. So, IF he ever shows up on my doorstep again – not only am I not an ‘option’, but it would actually mean that the wife gave up, and if she gave up with the level of investment she has in, means she truly has realized that he is no good. So, why would he be any different for me? He won’t. End of. The sitch is, once involved with an MM, the ‘relationship’ is doomed from the beginning, it’s an untenable through and through. There is no potential, no future, it is tainted and futile. This is all from experience, and I will never find myself in this sitch ever again…
Mostly I just read Nat’s posts and everyone’s comments, but tonight I just feel so low.
When you realise you’re being used it’s just so depressing, sad and upsetting. I’ve been trying to go NC, but work with the EUM and right now it’s hell. Feel like I can’t get any perspective on this situation. And then tonight, without any encouragement from me, he sends me texts about his latest conquest, as if I want to know. Closely followed by an invitation to dinner tomorrow night. I must have really hit rock bottom for him to think it’s acceptable to treat me this way. I need some help.
butterfly, that is so cruel and I really feel for you. Please don’t accept that invitation, I’ve been there and it just gets worse and worse. How dare these men behave this way. Sometimes it takes rock bottom before we can do anything about it. I hope you find the strength to end it with him and I’m sending you as much support as I can.
Butterfly, as Nat suggests if you feel as though you are being used, you probably are. The latest conquest? That is shite and doesn’t sound as though he is treating you with love, trust, and respect, right? Since you say you are at rock bottom, I’d ignore the dinner request and block him. If you have to respond because you see him at work, very quickly and briefly indicate that you have plans. That’s it. You can do NC with a work colleague…see Natalie’s posts on that subject. You keep everything about work and do NOT engage with him on a personal level. Let him go to dinner with his latest conquest or maybe he’ll find a new one between now and then? NC was meant for these types of situations with users. Good luck to you.
“I must have really hit rock bottom for him to think it’s acceptable to treat me this way. I need some help”
Butterfly, don’t make his behaviour about you. Just because you are on the receiving end it doesn’t mean you caused it or made him to do it. Most people wouldn’t dream of behaving this way. They would either terminate the relationship (brutal but honest) or, maybe after a decent period, you find yourself back in touch as friends (genuine friends with no using and abusing), or satellite acquaintances. They don’t show off and then try to get you on side a if nothing had happened.
Granted, we don’t help ourselves by engaging so the answer is – don’t engage. And much of that is to let go of the notion that he is the judge and jury of your life.
Cut him off.
Great comment as always Grace. Butterfly, when you start sliding down the slippery slope of accepting the unacceptable, the fog gets so thick you lose sight of even the obvious… You do not want anyone in your life who deceives, disrespects and devalues you. Would you accept this from anyone else in your life? I think and hope not! Even if you work together, you do not have to engage on a personal level with anyone who demeans you. The attitude and behavior you describe is outrageously demeaning. You would better serve your self by being justifiably outraged rather than focussing on feeling hurt in my opinion.
ACs dole out the shitty treatment 24/7, to everyone. They are too self-absorbed to “punish” you for your weakness. However, when you feel as weak as you have been feeling, you avail yourself to their shitty behavior. Its like sticking your hand in a tree shreddder. The tree shredder only runs on one speed: Shred. It does not have a gentle “Tree hugging” speed. This is only about “you” as much as you make it about you. He’s gonna be an asshole to everyone. Not sure if this makes you feel better, but I just want you to know that the power is in your hands to turn this situation around.
Butterfly, you may run into him with work, but you can block him on your phone, and your texts. He may or may not have another conquest, and that is his sick thinking, that he has to make himself sound better than he really is. Don’t reply, get yourself busy, don’t go to dinner. If he really had a new conquest, then what is he texting you? Just shows you how sick he is, and you can’t change him. Keep writing here, it helps.
Thank you all so much for your kind and wise words. Intellectually I know exactly what I must do and that I must cut all personal contact. Unfortunately I know that my patterns of behaviour have developed over the years and I’ve got some serious homework to do on myself to reach a healthy place. Ah well, one day at a time I guess. Good news though – I did not accept invitation out tonight and will not do so in the future
Ava
I was thinking about your post about the ex ac who contrived an argument with you before you visited him in person so that he could find a phony reason for “breaking up” with you (which is what this was all about it). I hope it’s not too late to respond to your post. I think we BR sight I would say that this man was “looking” for an excuse to blame you for something. How many people really get mad and break-up over an argument as trivial as this one seemed to be? It is pretty typical fOR A N AC to “find a way” to get angry when he either has something else on the side already or plans to or doesn’t want you visiting in person because it might force him to actually HAVE a relationship with you (or discuss it) or perhaps you might find out what a loser he really is.
I had this happen to me with a man I was very involved in helping and supporting as a close friend through a health issue a few months ago. I really gave it my all (it was long distance support) and he made made great statements about how important I was, how he “treasured” my friendship and support, how the he wanted to work with me on projects in the future (he really fast forwarded me on this and pushed me on ALL sorts of ideas of how we would work together which I took seriously! How his first thing would be meeting me and taking me out to a terrific dinner to thank me etc, have a big party at which I would be the guest of honour and blah blah. These were just enough appreciative crumbs to KEEP me providing the social work support he wanted from me (cause he was a LOSER but I didn’t realise it at the time). When he got better and didn’t want me in his life anymore (he never DID but he “needed” me for awhile) he contrived an argument with me by hurting me terribly and then when I reacted started throwing insults at me – telling me at the end (listen to this) that HE had an IQ of 188 so HE knew what he was talking about. I went immediately NC and since then I have had to face the face that he did fast forward me – not for a love relationship but for a NEED relationship where he could get something he needed from me. And instead of stepping up in a honest way as your ex ac could have done and really told the truth in a compassionate way or even faced up to the fact that he was using me..he didn’t. We bear the scars of this because we have blind to the fact that in reality these are not very nice men at all. I confess I really was fooled by him and BR introduced me to a whole new “species” of men that are really alarming…but I am a fast learner and I know you are too!
Espresso,
I know your comment was addressed to Ava, but it really helped me. I think this has just happened to me too. I realise that hinting to someone that you haven’t taken any precautions is not exactly trivial(hold my head in shame, but I suspect that he did seize upon it as a way out.
There I was giving him everything, my heart, my emotions and my body. Trying, but not succeeding in talking about things important to me and then just giving up. There he was telling me how beautiful I was, how kind, supportive, intelligent, making plans for us to meet up and work together. Just like you espresso I was taking this seriously. Well, I wanted too, but my anxiety was creeping up. He thought it was all going so well, he had me wrapped around his little finger; there I was as compliant as ever. Then something snapped because he made one wrong move too many. We were in bed, post coital (sorry for the graphic)and he asked for my input on a reference he was working on for a position in Washington. Washington? That’s 18,000 km away! That’s when I started reacting and dropped the bombshell. He was furious and the insults really flew. Left stranded at the airport and in a desperate state I sent a pathetic (truly cringeworthy) text saying I was sorry and asking him to forgive me(omg) but that this was all too painful and that I needed to know if we had a future romantically and if we did how did he envisage that, and, if not, I would have to walk away. Talk about drama! A few days later I get a response telling me that now would be a good time for me to go solo. No mention of the contraceptive issue. Just like you say he could have stepped up and honestly and compassionately told me the truth that he was using me, but just like your hideous, brain too big for his head, super intelligent loser,he didn’t. He prefers to be angry and cruel. He’s now got a very good reason to blame me and a perfect way out so he doesn’t actually have to have a relationship with me or, as you also say, at least discuss it with me.
Espresso, unlike yourself I can’t claim to be a fast learner, but I’m getting there. We may bear the scars and we may have been fooled, but we’re not the losers, we’ve found BR, a better future awaits.
Jeeezzz, what is this with those guys and this “I’m moving to/applying for the position at/ where-ever” thing? AC No1 and AC No2 actually have done the same – AC No1 said he wants to move to Germany (and he did go to Berlin, except that was not the actual city in Germany, but a bar called so in the city we live in!!! lol) and AC No2 said he is planning a trip around the world (that doesn’t make me lol yet, makes me angry, cause he already lives in another country than me,so why all this crap?). These talks about going somewhere far away usually is a huge huge red flag he is withdrawing.
My friend was involved with really EU guy who told her he’d had a job offer to go to Australia maybe for 6 months maybe for good. Didn’t seem to understand why she would feel upset about that. She broke up with him not long after, for that and other EU behaviour. He never did go to Australia.
Hey Rev,
All of yr posts make very good sense so remember to really value what you bring to the table here & elsewhere in yr life. Water finds it’s own level. I’d say we’re on a par 😉
Yr feedback on my friend sitch is perhaps right. I’ve raised the feeling used issue with her three times already though. The first time I raised in response to MY behaviour toward HER (I deleted her from my fb friends list) & my fear of being used, as this had happened to me with friends in the past (as a reasonably popular person before getting ill, even though I never associated with any one ‘click’ some would latch onto me hoping some of my mojo would rub off on them, & suddenly start COPYING me, in all sorts of ways. I rearranged some prime offenders of this from my inner to outer circles some time back. I noticed this ‘friend’ was being invasive of my privacy & starting to do similar. That’s why I deleted her off fakebook).
The next two times we discussed it I somehow found the chutzpah to say I HAD indeed felt used by her & why. I noticed that once I started openly sharing my feelings & also pulling her up on disrespectful behaviour (ie non responses to dinner invites until it was too late for me to make other plans, even though the reasons she give meant she’d have known well & truely in advance she couldn’t make it ~ little things like that), she basically withdrew (largely) from the friendship. She also has a snide & very manipulative side to her that most people would never dream exists. She flashed at at me momentarily though a couple of times once I started challenging her. I think she tries to keep this hidden but it leaked out anyway.
When I think about it, that’s quite passive aggressive behaviour. If I’m REALLY honest I think this woman has possibly undiagnosed mental health issues (I suspect bi polar although she’d be horrified if I suggested this), & is well meaning but somewhat fake. She has concocted a story which she presents as the narrative of her life to people. It has the major elements covered in terms of truthful facts, but she constructs herself as the victim in all circumstances. This is difficult as being a DV survivor she has been victimised. From the outside looking in though, I see another side to her. It is a side that has benefited her ENROMOUSLY financially due to an ability to somehow manipulate her childrens paternal grandparents (it was thier inheritance she received – ALL of it with NOTHING going to any other family member.) The childrens father is an addict who was violent to her & did dispicable things. They’ve been seperated over 12 yrs though & he also has schitzophrenia. She was a practising alcoholic when they were together & she is the one CHOSE to have 4 kids to him though despite neither of them ever having had employment. The fifth kid was years later to another man, after she got sober. I calculate child five came alone just when welfare for the first four kids would have expired.
It’s no excuse but the father of the first four kids having schizophrenia, in my view is a HUGE mitigating circumstance in terms of his culpability, on a moral level at least re his addiction & violence issues. Yet HE was left NOTHING in the will by his OWN PARENTS (ie not even in trust to be managed legally for him) & instead SHE got THE LOT. I think this is b.c.she literally ‘co-opted’ his parents & somehow turned them against their own son, as hers are overseas where she is originally from.
Since then welfare for child five has expired & now too old for more kids she has a disability income. That ‘s fair enough as her car accident many years ago does cause her some probs.
I guess what I’m thinking is again, ‘water finds its own level’. Maybe in considering our vastly different ways of functioning in the world to date, we really don’t have much in common anyway?
Thanks Jewells…
During our last talk I got fed up with HIS perceived worst case scenarios for HIMSELF, HIS what if this happens to HIM, what people would say about HIM, etc. ALL ABOUT HIM. I felt like I was getting nuked by a bomb. All these fears about HIS feelings and HIS situation. Then he had the audacity to call me selfish because he said he felt I was only thinking about being happy with HIM and not caring about what he had to face ahead. Right then and there I felt my boiling point. I understand people say things without thinking when they’re scared or angry but REALLY? Then after a few days of cooling off he says sorry for being a jerk? Sometimes you forgive but you never forget.
Hey Nene, right on girl! Yup, I had that epiphany too with the exMM, it was all about him. In one of my last convos with him where I turned the tables, I told him that up until now it had been all about him, and from now on, my life was going to be about me, and I didn’t give a damn about him or his secrets anymore I was talking until the cows came home. We are only as sick as the secrets we keep, and I realized I was complicit in keeping the secrets of a very sick man. So I verbally puked everything up over the past 5 months, and I feel sooooooo much better. Screw him and his secrets. Screw him and his concerns about his image. Heaven forbid people should find out what he actually is, how he actually behaves! HA, everyone should know, so that he can’t manipulate anyone unknowingly again!
Here are a list of things this woman has done that make me feel like in hindsight I was perhaps, being used:
After the hot phase (lasted a total of around the initial 12 mths- 18 mths) she began not returning my calls, actively avoiding my calls, & not replying to texts, (all getting progressively worse over time so I stopped calling / texting)
stopped sharing what was going on in her life with me & deliberately turning times where we did talk to topic of what was happening only in my life instead (yuk! I responded by not talking abt my life at all a few times when I interacted with her so she would learn. sorry, aint gunna happen! lol)
after doing the above & distracting me whilst tired ect into talking abt things that were not the reason I was calling her, excusing herself from the call before I had a chance to say, hey, I’m actually calling to see if you want to out to x together…
when I would attempt to arrange a social outing with her she would say, she had already arranged to do xyz, with xyz being something it seemed appropriate to suggest in reply, would you like to join me to do that instead. the offer to join her never came. (this happened repeatedly & I would sometimes.find out xyz was in fact with this other friend I’d introduced her to, or other mutual aquaintences making me feel even more weird)
invading my privacy by suddenly in the middle of totally unrelated conversations asking me who my therapist is, who my dr is, or how I wipe my ass, despite her knowing I am a private person & having previously told her I prefer not to say (by doing this I usually ended up saying who these ppl were as the questions were so incredibly random, I was caught off guard. I’ve challenged her twice about this & she STILL continues to do it knowing I find it invasive & disrespectful)
These are small examples but none of my other (real) friends
act this way & frankly I think she can shove it, even if I don’t have any other close friends geographically nearby. I will GET some & when or if she cones crawling back (as I know she will when I am well again, I will be somewhat cold shouldered)!
I’ve also noticed she’s very into the kudos by association syndrome (including re musicians!). I think this attracted her to me in the first place. Now I’m not working, (& certainly not playing music) I don’t have that kudos factor. What she doesn’t realise is people like me succeed due to our MINDSET & that MINDSET has zero to do with welfare reliance as a life strategy or other peoples money!!
I don’t think I will miss much from distancing myself from this person. I think SHE will miss a GREAT DEAL however 😉
Espresso,
He quoted his IQ to prove he was right about relationship issues? Pulllleassse! How incredibly small and simple and full of himself. Sounds like his emotional age is 10, even if his IQ is 188. If a guy said that to me I would not be able to stop myself from laughing out loud in his serious puckered anal little face. Sorry he used you to fill his needs, but GOOD Riddance to him Espresso. You are so way better than his dorky uptight ass anyway. Know that. 🙂
PS I don’t see this woman as a ‘bad person’ for any of the things I mention. On the contrary, she is just doing the best she can with what she knows, so to speak. (And I think the church stuff is her way of trying to be a ‘good person’ except she doesn’t realise life isn’t about being ‘good’ or ‘bad’, psychopaths & sociopaths aside.)
I feel though that what happened is I REALLY got to know her in that first 18 mths, to a degree where I ‘saw through’ the mask she wears (& indeed she can be kindhearted), to her real charactar which is in fact VERY manipulative, & not neccessarily in a good way. It was after that (revealed to her by me starting to respectfully challenge her behaviour ) she upped the ante in terms of pulling away. I had no idea what I’d done wrong at the time as whenever we spoke about things she pretended to be genuine in saying ‘no probs’ leaving.me to think things were all good between us still. (This too I eventually raised with her, b.c as I told her, I choose my friends very carefully & not just anyone has access to my inner circle. Those that do, are permitted entry b.c they are worthy of such, & if not, get the boot)… I was trying to give her a chance & just be open, honest & respectful with her about how I was feeling.
My gut says she doesn’t like the fact that unlike most (who I think she has fooled) I got to know the real her, underneath the mask. That saddens me as a couple of times when I challenged her, on her part in certain life decisions, pointing out SHE had made those choices, she did drop the mask a little & say she knew but that she has no idea how to now handle the consequences of them. THAT person, in her raw honesty, I liked much better than the fake-feeling (to be on the receiving end of) church going do-gooder thing she runs with.
I guess the lesson in this is now what have I learned. Sadly, I feel that it’s only that people approaching me seeking friendship can be users too. How are we supposed to know that in advance though if it’s after using us & their behaviour changes that we then realise we have been used? The whole thing has actually made me wary now of seeking any new friends!
Teach. What is a DV survivor? Pretty sure I would know what it is, but unfamiliar with abbreviation.
Domestic violence
Lily,
It doesn’t matter how they say it, hearing it truthfully hurts just as much and what compassion does an AC have anyway no matter how brutal with truth they can be.and sometimes they are brutal with the truth I dont know a single compassionate AC he was never going to be that way with you.
Don’t stress too much over your text not many fallback girls who haven’t done that go easy on yourself and keep taking care of you.
Thanks Tulipa, I suppose a compassionate AC is a contradictory image! I will do my best to forget I ever sank that low that I sent that text.
Lilly, keep looking forward if you can. I’m glad you are home and safe. In the big pic, a text is meaningless. Just as his texts are meaningless. My daughter can order a $50 pizza dinner with a 2 second text. Forget the text. Focus on you and your healing. Many hugs to you.
Runnergirl, I’ve deleted the text so I can’t keep torturing myself with it or should I say ‘them’ (there was more than one!). I get strength from your comments because I know you’ve been where I have and you’re doing so well. Hugs to you too and thank you.
Ps Lily if it of any comfort to you one of my emails to the ex ac reads Want to meet up for sex from time to time?
Tulipa, LOL. If I’d sent that one I suspect I would have got a different response.
Apologies for going on & on about this but there is one more thing.
When this woman first befriended me it was under the guise of her asking me to formally mentor her in a support group setting. I was still working but already ill so declined however said I would be happy to be her friend instead.
The first 3 mths of knowing her consisted of her initiating all contact (after all she was the one seeking my counsel/friendship not the other way around) where she would phone me & in an elevated pitch & extremely rapid fire speech, talk non stop AT ME for half an hour & then having spewed a bunch of stuff out, abruptly hang up before I could even respond! It was so bad that all I had space to say in those calls, was literally ‘hello’ & ‘goodbye’ with her just blabbing away in between. It actually took me a few months to slow down her speech pattern & gently teach her that conversation is in fact a two way thing. Over time the calls became more balanced in terms of us bith contributing more equally, until she went all weirdaroonie (as previously described).
A while after she’d been playing games with me, during a lul in her shenanigans, I took the liberty of reflecting back to her, what she had been like in those first few months, particularly in relation to these calls. I don’t know why but I felt the need to even the score with her a bit. She was almost like a person having episodes of mania. When I noticed this was interspered with periods of severely depressed mood (not to mention the unaffordable spending she’s later doing), I started suspecting she may have undiagnosed bi polar (I couldn’t make that diagnosis of couse but I do have quite a bit of working w ppl w various mental illnesses & professional training in that area).
I don’t know if that makes any difference at all but maybe in hindsight, she just wanted someone to dump all her problems on? Could I be right & could it also be that when I expected a proper equal 2 way friendship, that this is why she bailed? It wouldn’t be the first time this has happened in similar circumstances (& actually the only other person who ever did that to me, happens to be an aquaintence of hers!)
Still not sure what to think here..
Teach,
I love you babe, but I’m gonna open a can of logic on your ass. About 99% of the attributes/actions you have described with this woman are negative, and some downright nasty and underhandedly manipulative. I’m getting my sealegs with calling bullshit on friends to whom I’ve “benefit-of-the-doubt”ed for years, so I’m on fire right now. Look out!
Point 1) She blames everything bad in her life on others and feels comfortable as a victim. MASSIVE RED FLAG. These people are like termites. Get rid of them fast. They are BAD JUJU and will only take you down. The best people I’ve known in life have had HORRENDOUS things happen to them, but have manned up where possible and dealt with them head-on, without taking anyone else for a ride. Even when they needed help, they took it with grace and not with smug, self-satisfied entitlement, as if the world owed them a favor. And they certainly didn’t suck anyone dry.
2) She invades your privacy and steps all over your boundaries by asking personal questions, EVEN AFTER YOU’VE TOLD HER YOU FEEL UNCOMFORTABLE WITH THAT. She’s getting a kick out of this power play, out of getting stuff out of you where you feel uncomfortable.
God, I wish I were just hyperbolizing this type of person, or being overly sensitive, but I’m not. And anyone who’s dealt with them KNOWS what I’m talking about. THESE BEHAVIORS ARE NOT ACCIDENTAL. They are designed to get you in a one-down position, and/or manipulate something out of you through guilt or pity. Your gut already knows it, Teach.
Another thing: I know what you’re talking about with her being “groupie-like” with you as a musician. For some reason (probably since I’m a writer, and so I have that affinity for right-brained people and endeavors), I have always had musicians in my life. However, it’s never been about the “fame” or “lifestyle” (as a matter of fact, most times it was IN SPITE of that), but rather because I just naturally got along with them, and I always loved collaborating with them on artistic projects. But, having been around them, I’ve seen the types of people you’re talking about: the “hangers-on.” It’s embarrassing and at times downright creepy. I can see why you’d have to be careful with these types of people. As a writer, I’m hardly having “groupies” falling over themselves trying to hang over my shoulder while I type (thank God), but music is so much sexier to the “public.” And it’s a breeding ground for these clingers.
Okay, I’ve had my say. I don’t know if this woman is completely conscious of her actions or not (a lot of manipulators ARE), but either way, it hardly sounds like a healthy, reciprocal relationship. There’s your reality check, my water level partner. 😉
Another thing: I am reminded of something I read in a book about manipulators and their “victims.” I think it was from Harriet Braiker’s book “Who’s Pulling Your Strings?” (Not 100% sure about the name of the title and the author, but close enough.) Anyway, in her book, she talked about treating the victims of these manipulators (but oddly never the manipulators themselves….hmmmmmmm…..) and how she would look for what she called “footprints in the snow” in the minds of these people. This was a metaphor for clues in the victim’s thinking, speech, and actions that showed that they were manipulated by someone. It was very interesting. After having been in a horrendously manipulative relationship for several years, and after having read several books on the subject, I sometimes see these “footprints” when I listen to people. A lot of the time, it comes out as the “victim” rationalizing the other person’s behaviors until they are blue in the face. But as Judge Judy says, if it doesn’t make sense, it’s not the truth. Did you ever notice how easy it is to explain something that’s true? Only when lies and deception enter into the picture do we spend our efforts rationalizing the crap out of things until there is no discernable line of logic.
Revolution,
Very interesting insight. “That doesn’t make sense” was my catch-phrase while I was with my ex-finace. I said it so often, we actually talked about it in counseling. I thought I was just an idiot—I needed to try harder to understand why he did what he did. But I suppose that was all bullshit. When someone says they love you and want to be with you, they ACT like it. It really isn’t complicated, is it?
It’s actually really that simple. Actions do speak louder than words. A person may say what they want to believe, but act in a way cmpletely different to that.
It’s like that pinterest poster: Actions show who the person is, words tell who they want to be. This helped me alot, the exEU MM Narc said a lot of wonderful things, his actions did a lot of horrible things.
Oh the previous message was for Emerldeyez but Revolution I know a so called friend like how you have just described.This woman I’ve known for yrs maybe a 2 yrs before before the ac and I dealt with him 12 yrs. This so called friend would invade my privacy ask questions about the ac continuously after I told her I didn’t want to discuss him,also bring back half way info about him none of the stuff I just got slapped with this summer when she knew all along his situation with 2 or 3 other women,so I don’t consider her info as being a friendly warning,I consider that she just wanted to continue to see me make a fool of myself. It was really up to me to protect myself with him so I don’t blame her.It just doesn’t sit well with me that we were suppose to be like Sis but you would watch me invest with a guy you know isn’t for me.Her sis bussed out in oct and asked me “hey you still seeing the Ac? you know he just had another baby on you/and where do you think he goes when you and him aren’t speaking to each other? I was hurt I asked the friend if she knew why she didn’t tell me?and if her and her sis were discussing me? she said no that her sis was just drunk. I was doing no contact at the time so he was free to do whatever it just stung a lil bit in the heart that everyone knew and no one told me not even him because he and I were in are progress of making things right all summer is what kept telling me,til after my bday sept is when I went Nc.So while we were allegedly working on our relationship this woman was already pregnant. But I am responsible for myself.I just stop contact with the friend basically I was embarrased they knew and I didn’t. Just wondering should a friend let you know a guy u been with for 12 yrs has something going on like a a baby on the way?or they see him with someone?Even though looking back the 12 yr thing is meaningless cause it doesn’t guarantee him to settle with me and he didn’t,So I am aware of that but if you see your friend diving with a jerk do you at some point step in? I would depending on the situation point her to baggage reclaim,or something enlighten to lift her spirits that she would see the light herself. I know all I remember is her conversations always shifting to him where is your Boo?is what she would say,or I seen your boo in your car,His sis said this or that about him,Maybe that was her way I don’t know,I felt more of she thought it was entertainment for her and her sis because I told them on several occassions didn’t want to discuss him cause I was doing Nc,I felt if in the begining you were giving half info why now that I’m trying to be over him are you still giving me half info. I could be wrong but my Mom and sis for yrs said that her and her sis were so nosey.they asked questions about every member in my fam,I used to have to ask them sometimes why do u care about what my sis doing work , or with,or who is my brother with or where does he stay,and at that point I dumped the frienship. If I am way off how I think about that situation anyone care to voice your opinion.I am not afraid to admit being a bad judge of character and know I am not perfect.
Yaaaa for you!! You are most definitely an inspiration.I want someone to love me whole hearted so I too must love myself the same, but in the mean time no one should think its okay to use me or any other woman thats confused about themselves or know how to communicate there bounderies.
Also when the person doesn’t know how to show and recieve love, its not a sign, hey let me get some sex from her, borrow money, pretend like I love her, hey even say I love her, fake a future, chase her down when she finally relizes or except that I was lying all along.These things don’t give a male or female the right away to use you.
I have been through a lot in life, most events I could’ve avoided.I am a firm believer that in most situations u do have control over in life. For 1 the person I had my 2 older kids with was very supportive finacially and still is but not emotionally, he has stepped up a bit more but says its some fathers that don’t do half of what he does.I love my kids so much that was the best thing came outbof that situation with him.2 lost my boyfriend when I was 6 mths pregnant, he used to hit me.I was so in a trans I thought jealousy was love, and growing up, I watched my mon and Dad marriage but never knew how to express love,I didn’t hear them say it to me much, no hugs, I learned about a menstral at school from friends and sex e.d,and learned about sex from friends, my virginity was broken when I was in 8th grade the guy was 18 a friend of my older sis.
Fwd when my youngest baby father died while I was pregnant I felt like the only person that showed care and concern was gone.
Then the Ac returned back into my life which was on his terms and I was so closed off I excepted him back.At one point he did want to be closer he expressed but I was definetly closed off and as he says I rejected him.
Either way everything happens for a reason things bout would’ve still been half way on his part.The truth of the matter finding out now at that time he had a baby on the way all along and just recently had another.
Anyway he seen the diffuculties I had he could’ve stepped off when he knew he wouldn’t get the relationship he was looking for, but NO he wanted to see what ye could accomplish.All the while my feelings started resurfacing and getting stronger and I expressed I wanted more from him without arguing or baggering him made myself too availble and start doing more relationship stuff and dormat slavery stuff, guess he figured hey its christmas or he the king why stop this fool.So all the while He promised more and more.
The end result is I’m angry, feel used, lost money and time, but I will pick myself up and keep moving and stay Nc,and congrats too u and have a blessed vacation.
Lacy,
I hear you, and we learn from our mistakes. Mine too, got money in the past, dinners, a clothes washer when his broke, and there were other things along the way that he lied about. But I was in this fairytale, I made more then him, I was cut off from family ( they were 1,000) miles away, and I certainly wasn’t going to tell anyone at work what was going on. I too, had a strange growing up, no affection between parents, though they had 7 kids, dad worked two jobs, so I saw the workaholism, alcoholism, and very verbally abusive relationship between my parents. So not the healthiest of role models for a relationship. But I too believe we have choices, and we keep making the same choices until we know better. And that’s ok, that is part of our growth process. So we are all here on this site for a reason, and we are all open to learning, sometimes faster at times, then other times, but we have chosen to take control over our lives and make some changes for a healthier relationship, first with ourselves and then with others. AND thank you, I am having a wonderful time with my two grandchildren.
Teach. This so-called friend has really gotten you all twisted up. It’s a DAMN SHAME. You are not going to let this go, it seems. You are giving over all your power to this person. When you are a friendship where you over give of yourself trying to help someone, (no matter who it is) they grow to resent you. They feel that YOU feel that YOU’ve got it all together and they are in the one-down position. You are innocent and not thinking any of the things that person believes you are thinking. This is such a common dynamic. You’ve mentioned that she may have a few loose screws. She’s behaving like she does. Because of this she is not only unhealthy for you to be so deeply involved with – and it Does appear you are DEEPLY involved with this individual or you would not be going on so much about her, but she is dangerous. You consider her a friend you so probably cannot imagine her being actually dangerous. One thing is for sure, she is not one who you can turn your back on and feel safe. And, who is she that you should be so invested in her? You’ve said that you don’t have a close friend near you. So she’s it? Evidentally, she realizes she can wield some power over you because of that fact. She may feel that you once held all the cards, between the two of you, when you were into your music career and now that you are ill, unemployed and financially strapped it’s her turn to shine. This is not a friend. Either she is unwell mentally, evil, or both but she is certainly not friendship material. I hope you see this and will act in your own best interests as soon as possible. I’m sorry if I stuck my two cents in where it was not asked, but after reading so may posts you’ve made concerning her, you are obviously very upset over her lack of decency in consideration for you and her down right meanness. You do not deserve this. You are trying to get yourself well and back on your feet in many ways. She is a serious detriment to your achieving this very important goal.
DV is abbrev. for domestic violence. The r.ship with the father of the first four kids was a DV r.ship she left 12 yrs ago.
I’ve just recently found out about this website, and I am amazed that I am 35, smart, professional and have just come to realize what I have been doing in relationships. 1) Painful 2) Disturbing… Always so much easier to blame “Them”… My inner struggle remains in the fact that we are taught about love and what love is and means that it almost feels hypocritical to judge Mr Unavailable so harshly, when me (ms.unavailable) is attracted to Exactly THAT. So…. The NC and walking away almost feels like I’D be reinforcing his guarded, passive aggressive behavior.
Anyone else struggle with this?
I have struggled with this terribly which has caused me many problems with my last relationship. I felt guilty and mean and I second guessed myself because I did truly love him. I even felt sorry, falling for the pity “I never meant to hurt you” act. Prior to being BR educated I used NC as a defense mechanism. Yes it worked in making him come back stronger but the problem is when you are dealing with disordered men the NC has to be permanent especially when you have taken them back more than once. There is a difference between teaching a man what is acceptable behavior and climbing an uphill battle with a Narc/AC/EU. These types you need to get away from because they are not willing or able to give you the relationship you want! There are plenty of nice guys out there that don’t play games and will not exhibit that craziness, and passive aggressive behavior you are talking about. Natalie covers it all on this website and there are many wise posters so keep reading. Re being taught about love…Natalie teaches you love is not pain and truer words were never spoken.
Judge them so harshly? That sounds like you’re saying “yeah, his behaviour is crappy, I don’t get what I want, but it all could be my fault actually”. I suggest you read a post on making everything all about you (sorry, don’t remember the exact title).
I mean, c’mon, while we all have to own what we do in relationships (typically-we are soooo understanding/helpfull/forgiving in situations when we should not be), those misters have to own their input too.
Do you really think that being delusional equals leaving pregnant women, deceiving them, manipulating and using them, and etc.? ACs and EUMs aren’t delusional, they know exactly they don’t want a relationship, yet they willfully act in ways that make you thin they do.
Though its not “whos doing it worse” competition, yet the fact is that the men that we’re talking about in here rarely suffer from the outcome of their behaviour.I’d say, naming their “faults” is kind of a therapy, giving you a better view of the picture that wasn’t so nice after all.
To judge.
“To form an opinion or estimation of after careful consideration”
If you are unwilling to make a judgement about them and more specifically about how you are being treated by your EU then it will be all the more difficult to remove yourself from a situation which is causing you pain. While both parties may be EU it isn’t them who is feeling anxious, hurt and devalued. They are usually getting what they want, on their terms – fringe benefits without commitment. Until you acknowledge that you are being used, it’s very hard to move on.
to move on you HAVE to make a judgement about that. I think I returned too often into a bad situation because I made excuses for him and wasn’t really willing to acknowledge and get angry about how I was being treated. Not judging
JUDGE them!
Ephiphanygirl,
Believe me by the time we get to NC, most of us have tried everything under the sun, to have a rational conversation, to discuss issues, to have a relationship without the power struggles, the emotional abuse, the continued broken promises, the hitting the re-set button, and nothing has been resolved, hoping for an apology and changed behaviors, it goes on and on. We have turned ourselves inside out and into pretzels for validation, approval, love and respect. ONLY to continue to be gaslighted, having them blow hot and cold, losing all trust and respect for ourselves. It’s called hitting bottom. AND yes, for us, that are the caregivers, the enablers, it feels pretty harsh. But what has happened, to you, in the meantime? That’s where it starts. We start to stop taking care of them and start taking care of ourselves first!
Excellent Emerlydeyez Damn girl you described it perfectly. Yes we do hit rock bottom. Then we go searching the internet because we don’t understand wtf happened? One of my searches that led me here was about “being friends with your ex” when post break up my ex was not letting up about “we have to be at least friends” “You know this is a life long thing.” God forbid!!! Then I think I searched taking him back and was taken here again and stayed here. I am so glad my google search pointed me in the right direction 🙂
“The NC and walking away almost feels like I’D be reinforcing his guarded, passive aggressive behavior.”
This is going to sound blunt, but I think you’re working on the assumption that they could give a toss about you, your feelings, what you think and what you do.
Change is only worth a bean when it’s the choice of the person making it, and the whole point of these blokes is that they aren’t prepared to make that choice.
So, really, it makes no difference whether you stick around, thus tacitly informing them that their misery-making behaviour is alright by you, or whether you go off elsewhere to have a happy life without them. Either which way they won’t be changing until they realise that they need to change in and for themselves. Which they may or may not.
Which is fair enough, really – I wouldn’t want anyone in my life who was able to force/manipulate me into changing my thoughts and behaviours against my will, either.
But you’re right in that it’s hypocritical to judge an unavailable while you’re remaining unavailable yourself. That’s why the best course of action is to leave them, work to become available and then have the joy of judging those f*ckers seven ways from Tuesday. When you can be bothered to think about them at all. 😀
Actually… no. Ever since I read this post https://www.baggagereclaim.co.uk/youve-got-to-call-it-as-you-see-it-why-you-mustnt-fear-judging-a-situation-or-actions/ I’m a big fan of judging full stop.
I wouldn’t think of it as judging THEM, though, I’d frame it as judging the SITUATION. Is the situation working for YOU? Nope? Exit, pursued by a bear.
Yoghurt, you made me laugh out loud “have the job of judging”.
Yep, that is the answer, working on becoming available, knowing my boundaries, respecting them and walking from those that don’t.
Magnolia I just wanted to say thankyou for reminding me what yr prior post was about. Also, I’m sorry to hear it’s taking time to get traction socially in yr new area. Don’t give up. PS That guy at yr work is a dickhead. Glad you saw that so quickly. Who cares what he thinks of you. It’s what you think of him that counts. 🙂
Tink.
You’re wrong on one thing. I’ve suspected for a while now this woman could become dangerous due to her lack of bounderies & invading my privacy so much. That much I’ve felt for a while so I kept trying to be vilgilent about MY boundaries, esp in that area. Even though TWICE now I’ve explicitly told her to please stop invading my privacy she has just done it AGAIN after giving me voucher to buy groceries when I had zero income just over a week ago! Turned out giving me the voucher was just a ruse to create an opportunity for her to yet again repeat her unacceptable behaviour. I was furious & I wanted to march over there throw the grocery voucher in her face & tell her no thanks, I’d rather STARVE. As I was so desperate & also did not want to let her know how much she had gotten to me I didnt. Just prior to all that I actually hadn’t had.contact with her for quite a while as I was sick of her shit. I only got caught up in the food voucher thing as she literally bailed me up in the supermarket! She did the invading of my privacy during a subsequent call I made to thank her for the voucher.
I’ve since only had one other call with her & it was quite unpleasant. I have no probs not initiating any contact with her for a while & actually think this is for the best. Truth be told I’d like to get rid of her completely but it’s not quite that easy as we mix in similar circles. Grr.
Tink
One thing yr right about is I did let this woman get way too involved in my life. I believe that at an earlier stage she was trying to seduce me into a sexual r.ship even though she is straight! (I was a lesbian in younger years but am not now). I think she was ‘curious’ & thought I would be a good distraction from some idiot she’d.gotten involved with o.seas. This was yet ANOTHER thing I had to confront her about ie inappropriately flirting etc.
Come to think of it in hindsight this woman sure has done a lot of inappropriate stuff! I didn’t let her get away with as I backed off myself a few mths ago but the more I think about her recent BS the more pissed off I feel!
Teach. Ironically, I thought there was some tidbit in all of this that you had not mentioned before. Weird, huh? I’m not psychic, but it was just a feeling, but nothing I could put my finger on. I’m concerned for you and hope that you will remain very vigilant and wary of her actions. She seems like a good one for actions don’t match the words. I could be wrong on this. I just see a continued spiraling downward for you in this dance with the devil. Take good care of your health as best you can and try to assign her much less importance in your life. If possible, don’t accept ANYTHING from her if you can possibly help it.
Fell off the NC wagon as he came to my place to pick up some of his things. I felt a pool of many mixed emotions but mostly still hurt and upset. He apologized for hurting my feelings last time we spoke. He had a list of compliments about me that felt nice to hear but the nice quickly turned to disgust. Even tho he said he loved me, had feelings for, said he never felt this way about anyone before, am so important to him, and that I’ve touched his heart and life….I couldn’t help but feel used and shafted still. Reason being is that when I asked where things stood between us or if we try to pursue something down the line…..he could not answer with a yes, no, maybe, or go to hell. He still wants me in his life but seriously, how can you say that when you arent even confident enough to fight for us? I don’t have confidence in him anymore. He said he didn’t want to say yes because he didn’t want to disappoint if things in his negative bubble world of a divorce didn’t work out, meaning him actually being able to tell family and friends the true reason for his divorce. True reason being he and her had been unhappy for several while married. Hes stuck in the mode where he is setting himself up for negative feedback that hasn’t even happened yet. Or so he says that’s the reason for the exit from us. So in MY eyes he’s trying to erase my existence so that he doesn’t have to own up to the whole truth (unhappy marriage and our affair). I’m a non believer in his contradictory words and feelings. If he honestly felt that way about me he would not be treating me this way. I find his reasoning selfish. I have never been thru a divorce so I don’t know the emotional affect it has on ones mind and heart. But I do know that he’s so deep in his negative dark hole of self pity and self preservation. I find it to be hurtful and not too mention sickening.
Back on the NC train I go.
Good call, nene
I’ve been there – the father of my son told me that I was his ‘best friend’, his ‘soul mate’, that I understood him like no-one else, that he’d never loved anyone like he loved me, that our connection was incredibly special to him… yaaadiyadiyadiya. It didn’t even scratch the surface of the fact that he was quite happy to mess with my head whilst I was coping with an unplanned pregnancy (by myself with no support, cos that would’ve been too much of a stretch) and then go off with someone else when the baby was two months old. If that’s love then I can do without it – I’ll just get me some good old-fashioned enemies next time instead.
You’ll notice though, that it’s inevitably about the pleasant feelings that you inspire in HIM… your feelings don’t really come into it at all and aren’t important. That’s not love, it’s just a pleasant woodly-doodly sensation that someone else gets to have.
If he really loved YOU (instead of just liking the effect you have on HIM)then he probably wouldn’t have put you in this position in the first place and he most certainly wouldn’t be compounding your pain with a lot of sounds-very-nice-but-is-really-meaningless waffle.
You can and will do better – you can meet someone who really wants to be in your life and make it better and happier. But you won’t even be in a position to even notice them until you’ve stopped reeling from the sickening ‘thud’ that you feel every time he swoops you high in the air and then discovers that he hasn’t got any way of holding you up.
Stay strong my lovely xx
Well said yoghurt!!This dude would only say some amazing stuff and it would feel good but,waiting on the action then it never happened hurt me to the bottom of my soul.How could I be so stupid?He would spend time with me then turns out he didn’t have much of an option cause he had burnt bridges with most of his harrem and he also was broke.
So being at my house basically after I had told him I didn’t want a relationship due to stuff I heard about him being with 2 other women, crazy of me to still keep him be around,and he moved all of his thibgs in my place anyway so I set myself up for failure.
He had his mind made up about me the moment I so called rejected him, and my thougts were maybe he would show me some solid evidence he wanted to be with me or step up more, he hadn’t even bought groceries,detergent,or helped with rent and lived with me off and on for yrs.
Free
It is true if someone loves you you’ll know.
Wow Yoghurt, nice response. Nene, yoghurt is spot on. I got tons of “sounds-very-nice-but-is-really-meaningless waffle”. I think Natalie’s analogy of all shirt, no pants applies as well. And I also experienced “the sickening ‘thud’ that you feel every time he swoops you high in the air and then discovers that he hasn’t got any way of holding you up”. What a great visual yoghurt. I remember that ‘thud’…the ‘thud’ of being used. Sending you strength Nene. The NC wagon can be bumpy at first. I had to use a bungy cord and duck tape.
Wow too true. With my ex I think he enjoyed how I made him feel, how I brought him up and made him a better person. But he couldn’t be bothered to add to my life in any way. It was all about what I did for him emotionally, and how this was good for him, irregardless of my needs and wants.
Nene, you say he picked up “some of his things.” Is there more left? If so, get rid of it now (storage/bin/post it) so you don’t have to endure another visitation and ruin your NC.
From what you write, the picture I get is extremely unpleasant. I don’t say this to upset you, but it looks like you were a useful buffer to use whilst he sorted out his marriage. Now that is being resolved, he wants to keep you as some kind of reservist/back up. In the meantime he will be off dating/flirting/whatever enjoying his newfound singledom. If he really loved you the way you deserve then he would be happy to commit. Happy to introduce you to his family over time.
Please reestablish NC and move on with your life. It does get easier with time, please trust me on that. You can be sure he is moving on with his. And he only sees you as a bit part player in that (if at all) Good Luck.
I’m glad someone raised the judging issue. I must admit I’ve felt conflicted about that ie felt bad for judging this woman’s behaviour (as opposed to her as a person per se). As if doing this made ME in the wrong somehow. Then I remember what I’ve always believed which is we are bestowed as humans with the power of judgement for a REASON which is to enable us to be discerning. Humph. Feel better remembering that!
I have to keep returning to these blogs, to the words laid out here to get to grips with with reteaching myself about boundaries or saying NO to am assclown.
Like a eureka moment, I realised I am keeping the door opened and why?
If I never contacted the AC he would never bother to keep in touch. If I didn’t clean the breadcrumb carpet for him to return he wouldn’t.
Why am I finding it so hard to let go of someone who on the first dumping cited fear of aided race child (ironically he posted on his wall how he is against racism lol)
The second dumping was after I caught him cheating and he never spoke to me then when I called him he shouted at me over checking how home making no mention of the other girl…he said he didn’t see the point of us if I am so insecure and paranoid.
He moved onto the new girl, a perfect blond…stunning to the point I feel even worse about myself, ugly in fact.
I am struggling to reteach myself about these type of relationships that suck all the energy from me and leave me ill.
And yet I am stupid enough to still have contact with him???
What’s wrong with me???
Hey Naz. I went through a year of being someone’s doormat while he tried to “find himself”. Telling me he “cared about me but wasn’t ready for a relationship”. Earlier this week when I found myself crying over him because of his tweets about hooking up with other girls, I just deicided to delete him from my life. It’s not easy, but you’ll thank yourself for it. This was a guy who used to be one of my closest friends, we even dated before this drama, so deleting him wasn’t easy to do, because I wanted to at least save the friendship. But I realised that e couldn’t be bothered to even be my friend. You know he’s bad for. You don’t get anything out of being with him. Somehow he’s convinced you that you should be satisfied with the breadcrumbs he gives you. And he’s playing on your insecurities. Because a secure woman would know her worth, and know that she doesn;t stand for rubbish. When I realised this I was angry with myself for being a doormat for someone else. But I’m in the process of forgiving myself and finding my value. Get rid of him. You’ll actually find yourself feeling more upbeat about stuff once again without having to stress on the fool.
Excellent advice Tinkerbell. I intend to take it. As I no longer trust her to discuss ANY details of my personal situation with ie including my financial sitch as it’s just not her business, I’ve decided to cease initiating ALL contact with her. If I see her in passing at a mutual support group I will just be polite & excuse myself from any conversation she may try to initiate. She might think I’m mean after giving me the grocery voucher but I really have had enough.
PS. She never did admit she’d been inappropriately flirting with me but I gave her ‘the talk’ as to why her behaviour wasn’t acceptable anyway. She shit herself a bit after that as I think she realised you play with fire you might just get BURNED! (ie Rediculously fantasising to herself I might actually have been interested. Umm, no way! I recognised something NQR with her pretty early on & just took a while to observe what I realised was a PATTERN of behaviour which finally has now enabled me the help of the BR online community to work out what is was! I would add that she’s jelous that I’m 6 yrs younger than her (I pointed this out when she tried to say she was.the ‘same age’ as me ie wtf?) & also that being ill has caused me to shed 20 kilo’s meaning I now weigh what I did at 25 yrs ago! Seriously, the weight loss has been caused by ILLNESS (& I actually look like SHIT) but she’s STILL jelous! I think she needs to get a bloody life! Grrr!
Thanks Yoghurt
This site has really opened my eyes and forced me to remove the rose colored glasses. As hard as it is to see the REAL side of him, its refreshing to know that I am actually doing it. After 3 years of all that we have been thru and been there for eachother (both ways), it feels like a huge piano fell offf a huge tower and onto my head. Its amazing how the selfish side of people come out in their most vulnerable moment and how quick theyd throw you under the bus. It just goes to show his true colors and lack of integrity and flawed character. The most difficult part is that we work side by side and theres no escaping. I am cordial and professional but Lord help me, because sometimes I want to reach across and give him a huge slapping of reality of his selfishness.
I’ve got a bit of a problem and I don’t want to download it on anyone but would appreciate what anyone has to offer, if anything…OK this guy pursued me, then went onto saying he doesn’t want a relationship but by then I was really into him to the extent I knew I was falling in love. He wanted sex, wasn’t over his ex so I witheld the physical intimacy hoping he would fall for me too. Anyway, this went on for some time, toing and froing, never quite deciding what he wants, making me more confused than ever. Anyway, every time he disappeared I later learnt he was staying over his exes but I wasn’t constantly a part of his life so really this is his business, not mine. But then when he returned, he told me they weren’t getting together and it’s taken him all this time to get over her and we slept together. The next day he acted like I wasn’t there, his phone kept ringing and I knew it was the ex so I left. A week later he admitted that they had slept together before sleeping with me and I just felt so hurt. He wasn’t techinally cheating but he told he was glad I still around, then used me, then disappeared again. In the end I cut him off and for months we had no contact because we had a fall out. One night we saw each other and he acted like nothing had happened, asking if I’m seeing anyone but diverting my attention when I asked about him. I know he still sees the ex, not sure if that means they still sleep together and I know it’s not my busniness and neither should I care. But I do. I need to get a life, but we used to get on so well and I miss that, I miss the laughs we had but I also know that when I’m around him I’m completely cagey and I’m no longer me because I got let down too many times. But even so, I think did I make the wrong decision? Should I be angry with him or hurt by him when he already made his point that he din’t want a relationship? He was absolutely fine with me, laughing and joking when I last saw him so I ask myself why do I feel like shit and he’s getting along fine? I also feel like a teenager for not being able to pick myself up and move on. Can anyone advise?
Tiffany, It sounds like you’ve made yourself a convenience and option for him to string along and use. You need to put this user in your rearview mirror because it isn’t going to get better. Sorry if this is harsh but he now knows he can get away with being an assclown to you and you’ll come back for more. All you’ll actually get with this guy is more drama and heartache.
Tiffany
Reading your post took me back to when I was stuck on the relationship rollercoaster. It reads as though its written by someone in pain and crisis, not love. All this crap and drama you’re surrounded by right now is of zero value. A mutual, caring, loving relationship does NOT make you feel this way. My advice would be to prepare yourself to ‘lose’ this battle and reap the benefits of winning the war. In other words, cut and run for your own sake! 🙂 xx
Thank you for the above comments – I knew this was the case but sometimes I doubt myself. I used to have boundaries but it seems they got lost in the process when you fall for someone you care about. I’ve been a bit of an idiot but I’m defo on my way to winning the war – as long as his cheating ex takes him back they’ll be one less user on the planet to care about 🙂 Thanks guys xx
Wow! I have just spent the last few days reading all the comments on this particular post. I have been here at BR for 4 years and I get so much out of it.. Thanks NML! (And MsD, you’re an absolute hoot!)
So what (read who) led me here 4 years ago, has just spent the last 4-5 months doing the whole returning act, reset buttoning, hooks, you name it. And although I feel slightly irritated, by golly I feel empowered!! I read him like a book but alas, I still had to do the suck and see moment didn’t I!? She who likes to think the best of people, thinking that at his ripe age of 44 he may have found some balls finally distending.. yeah nahhh!!
Oh was he nervy when he went in for the kiss after an almost perfect evening of talking, laughing and dining. And I’ll admit.. I wanted him to do it. BUT what he didn’t expect was that within 2 minutes of that kiss I said that I was glad he did that because now we have to have an awkward conversation.. the kind that began with “So what happened 4 years ago? I need to hear it in your words..” Bottom line was he said he couldn’t give me what I wanted back then. So my retort was “so what makes you think you can give me what I want now?” “Can’t we just see where it goes from here and spend some time together?” To which I said “No, I don’t think so.. I don’t have time to waste finding out anymore”. I’m 41 btw.
This very smoothly moved into Pt 2 of the awkward conversation where I dropped the bombshell that I have taken matters into my own hands over the past 2 years and have been undertaking IVF solo. Well!! The body language reaction was priceless AND I called him out on it. I just pointed at his legs and laughed. He said “what?” “You just physically took a step back from me”. “No I didn’t” and went in for more cuddles. His reaction was perfectly fine with me.. I needed to say it to him then and there to gauge whether we were on the same page.. and of course we weren’t! I knew it and so did he! “So I ask you again.. what makes you think you can give me what I want now?”
Forward to the morning.. after being so hot, he very typically was ice in the cold hard reality of daylight and wine subsiding in the bloodstream. I just stood in my kitchen with a smug expression on my face as he made his meagre excuses as to ‘last night was probably a mistake..’ etc etc.
I know it would’ve been a shock to hear what I had to say – and I’m not sure what reaction I may have had if someone said it to me tbh.. so I was willing to give him some leeway(??) for that. But as Nat says.. If someone is genuinely interested in YOU, then there would be little to deter them, especially something so obviously important to me – it’s at least something that c/should be discussed at a later more sobering time. (I think I needed the dutch courage to get it out.)
Well, that was 2 days before Valentine’s Day and I felt so good about it… it weeded him out, I asserted myself albeit a little not following all of Nat’s rules, but I was at peace with it. Personally I don’t think he liked me challenging him (there was more discussion after that initial awkies moment regarding his ambivalence 4 years ago and his hot/cold demeanour.) I truly wasn’t telling him about himself, I was simply saying .. ok maybe I was a little 😉
Now forward to yesterday. I was at a girls’ night the night before and one of my friends asked how it all went.. so I shared the story. She agreed I was right to say it then and there esp. since there was a past (I wouldn’t be having that kind of disclosure if I’d just met someone!) I added that I recognised that it was big news to hear and that perhaps he was still digesting (ha!). So my curiosity got the better of me (read suck it and see) and I sent a text ‘so, did you want to try that again without so much alcohol and miscommunication..?’ The response made me L.O.L. all over the house…! Apparently he had been helping a friend move that past week, and well, they reignited a spark from a year ago, and, um, I don’t know how to say this but it looks like something serious. In my calculations, that would’ve made it a week after him leaving my house he’s reconnected with another ex and had to tell me about it? A simple no would’ve sufficed 🙂
Bottom line, I did what I did and I’m glad I did. He is truly cemented in my head now as an opportunistic, ego stroking, man baby that is obviously starved of affection seeking it wherever he can from whomever he can. He might think that I’m not that special, but dammit I AM! Too damned spesh for his dual grooming 2 exes at once. I’m glad I didn’t fall… I had my spider senses on alert although wavering at times WANTING to believe but knowing in my sweet gut I was right to be distrusting of his actions. Yes, I’ll admit I did a bit of the using too, I wasn’t seeking however.
Curious to know if I would’ve scraped through on a BR test if there was such a one? Or did I fail? The best part for me is that I am not at all sad about it.. in fact I find it laughable that within a week he’s got someone lined up and gone in for the kill.
You’re right on sister 🙂 Man baby he is, a coward too afraid of his own company that he weeds out all the women whose boundaries are down and hurt from previous sour relationships that he isn’t capable of connecting with mature women that have their life together. Well, that’s what I’ve learnt from my ex AC. And you did good to pull him up on it and run, and as long as you feel empowered by the situation and like you’ve ‘finished’ this episode of your life that’s the main thing. Peace of mind is damn hard to find amongst all the cobwebs of lies and bullcrap, it’s like finding a gem amongst the weeds, so please don’t go back there and undo all your hard work even ‘just to suck it and see’. My ex AC was like that, bouncing around the shop seeing whose knickers he could get into and heart he could explode before leaving their place like a crimescene. I have so much to be thankful for; my friends have helped tons but Nat and co have helped no end. So well done you and good luck with the IVF. I think I might try that one in future heehee.