When people are explaining their relationship issues to me or how they’re struggling with a breakup, I often hear something along the lines of, “I tried so hard to be a good girlfriend/boyfriend” or even “I did everything that someone could want from a good girlfriend/boyfriend” and it immediately alerts me to someone who was very much devoted to pleasing the other party, likely at the expense of themselves. It also reminds me of when I tell my daughters that they can’t do/have something and they go, “But I’ve been a good girl mummy!” and I’m thinking “Er, that’s got nothing to do with my answer!”
Many of us have been raised with this idea that being “good” is super-important. In fact, many of us have been raised with the idea (or certainly interpreted it as such) that if we are good, people will treat us well, hence ipso facto the assumption is that if we’re not treated well then we must have been “bad”. This sticks with us from our childhoods and even when we become adults, we forget to mature our perceptions or adjust our behaviours.
Of course when we’ve busted ourselves up with people pleasing to the point where we couldn’t be distinguished in a line-up of doormats, being disappointed, not being treated well can seem rather unfair. I know that sometimes when things don’t go my way, I can almost a see a three-year old version of me in a red coat stomping my right foot in a huff and wanting to flounce off, possibly not before I’ve given them as much of a reproachful stare as I can muster.
The trouble with our obsession with being “good” is that we all have different interpretations of what that means and if the readers of this site are anything to go by, here are just some examples of what it can mean.
Being agreeable to the point where you don’t have any strong opinions on anything and you silence your own feedback and criticism.
Never making any waves because when you were little, you were appreciated for “not making trouble”. You say what you think people want to hear and you do what you think people want you to do.
Over-giving which is where you keep giving and giving and giving in the hope that there will be a tipping point and you’ll eventually start to receive. Over-giving is also a way of trying to minimise conflict and criticism.
Being over-empathetic so you end up putting you in the other party’s shoes and then imaging what you would do, projecting it onto them and then being too compassionate while being blinded to their behaviour.
Suppressing your needs, expectations and desires to prioritise those of others, while somehow expecting these very things to be met even though you don’t assert yourself.
I think that we mistake gaining approval with being good when actually, being a good person is really about having moral purpose and living your life in line with your values.
If you treat you and others with care, trust, and respect, and where appropriate love, other aspects of being ‘good’ such as being kind (but not a doormat), compassionate (but not over-empathetic), giving (but not a mug), honest (but with respect), conscientious (but not making everything about you and seeing you as an extension of everyone else) and essentially being a person of integrity do happen as a natural extension especially when you live consciously as opposed to in Lala Land.
When you focus on being a “good girlfriend/boyfriend”, you can end up playing a role and this may actually sidetrack you from being you because you end up becoming very concerned with presenting a person who will be ‘kept on’.
It can actually get to the point where you’re essentially tip-toeing around trying not to be, say, or do anything that might give them an opinion on you that could ‘sway’ them away from ‘choosing you’.
If and when things become difficult or it doesn’t work out, you end up thinking “But I’ve played by the rules / I’ve been a good girlfriend/boyfriend / I’ve given them everything so why the hell am I alone / heartbroken / unhappy / being ditched for someone who isn’t doing what I am?”
It feels really unfair especially if you’ve acted so ‘fairly’ that you didn’t really have a voice or fair representation in the relationship because you were so concerned with holding onto him/her. It’s a difficult and one of the ways this plays itself out is that after worrying about being “good” in the relationship, you worry about how you look out of it and next thing you know, you’re basically breaking them off a piece or force feeding yourself a faux friendship because you want to be “fair” and not look “mean”.
There’s no perfect answer to this whole “I’m good but bad things happen” issue. What I do know is that being “good” should be representative of your values and should happen organically as a natural extension of being you. Anything else is contrived and will sell you short. It may even come across as disingenuous if people start to think that they’re not seeing the real you and that you’re trading passivity for getting them to do what you want.
Being “good” isn’t going to stop you from experiencing disappointment and hurt.
Life doesn’t work in this organised fashion of bad things and disappointment only happening to “bad” people, otherwise we wouldn’t need prisons and laws. Being ‘good’ doesn’t mean that you have the power to change people whose characters and values don’t fit in with you, so it’s best just to be who you are and act accordingly because trying to get people to change or blaming you for Other People’s Behaviour as if your worth influences and even provokes it leads to unnecessary pain.
Relationships are joint ventures that need to be copiloted.
You go through the discovery phase of dating and hopefully go on to forge a mutual relationship where you’re both in it and you’re both putting in your authentic selves, as opposed to one of you putting on a performance day after day or showing them around you like the equivalent of an estate agent / realtor trying to offload a property.
It’s very easy, especially with online dating being so prevalent, for us to end up being focused on cultivating personas that we think will be attractive to someone. We try to have boxes to tick. We try to be boxes to tick and somewhere along the way we forget that we’re people who have lives, interests, hobbies, passions, goals and dreams.
You can be you and be a relationship partner. They’re not mutually exclusive and if being in a relationship is separating you from your identity or causing you to act like a performing seal, you’re trying too hard.
Your thoughts?
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Empowering, as usual. 🙂
This aims right at fear of abandonment and need of validation, the roots of bad decisions and self-traps.
The more I think about it, the clearer it gets and the most comfortable I am in my own skin.
Thanks!
Not to mention, the whole notion of being “good” turns people into approval-seeking individuals.
As soon as this happens you surrender your power to someone else who ultimately gets to judge you as either “good enough” or not.
This naturally leads people to hide, deny, or compensate for the parts of themselves that aren’t seen as good.
No one is perfect, so the parts that aren’t judged as good become a source of toxic shame that only leads people to “try harder” at being good.
It’s a vicious circle that only distances you from your most authentic self and leaves you a mere shadow of the person you really are.
Spot on
My thoughts? Natalie I’ve said before and I’ll say again you are my guardian angel. I don’t know how you do it but you’re always on time. I’ve been crying my heart out over a “Mr. Unavailable” I couldn’t take anymore of him stringing me along trying to hold on to me but not wanting to “move too fast” aka COMMIT. We were already heavily involved but I wasn’t worthy of the title and commitment. He kept coming back asking for more time then blamed me for the downfall. I just asked God how could a GOOD woman like me keep ending up disappointed by ass clowns. I deserve in return the love that I give. Mr. Unavailable willingly accepted all of my goods. There I was doing things that fall under the wife package & I couldn’t even get girlfriend status. I haven’t slept in 2 days because I’ve been sacrificing my happiness to please him. When I share my feelings, it always results in an argument. Today was the finale. How many reminders and flags did I need to be clearly aware that he doesn’t recognize my worth? I had enough! But I’m left feeling misled, unappreciated, rejected, and neglected after all we had. It hurts but I have to dry my tears because I’ve been crying too long over ass clowns. You’d think I’d be numb to hurt and disappointment by now. Still Natalie, for the life of me I don’t understand how good hearts… good women (and men too) get taken for granted and mistreated. Are we better off being cold and heartless like the ones who hurt us? I try to keep my heart from bitterness & still love hard but this is where it’s gotten me too often. I’m just tired. I truly hank youfor this blog. You’re the best Natalie
This. WAS. SOOOOOOO. Freaking good!!!! Thanks Natalie.
“MATURE our perceptions and Adjust our expectations”
That part alone was so key for me.
“In fact, many of us have been raised with the idea (or certainly interpreted it as such) that if we are good, people will treat us well, hence ipso facto the assumption is that if we’re not treated well then we must have been “bad”.
This part and the rest of the post is so very true for me. Natalie,it’s amazing how the timing of your posts in November have tracked with my experience in a relationship where I was holding onto being friends while he continued his EUM behaviour. I’ve, said,”That’s it”, so many times but didn’t take action to distance myself from his poisonous words and behaviour. I sat on more than enough evidence for too long,but finally I’ve had enough!
I’m not turning back again this time.
Thank-you Natalie.
Yes!It takes two authentic people to create an authentic and rewarding relationship.
“Relationships are joint ventures that need to be copiloted.”
That reminds me of something you said in the past. Relationships should be 100/100 instead of 50/50. This really stuck with me. Bringing all of yourself, warts and all, in a relationship means that you won’t be striving to be that (elusive) ‘perfect’ girlfriend.
Such great advice rally empowers me to stay strong abd move in the right direction which is as far away from ass clown as possible!!!!!!
What a fantastic post Natalie!!!
This was so me always trying to be the good girlfriend, over giving never expecting anything
all because I didn’t want to be seen as a b*$ch
and I wanted to be so understanding.
Recently I dated this guy who basically strung me along then broke it off with me. a short time later got me to go back out with him and even with him throwing out red flag after red flag I still went back out OMG did he have issues like
1. recently separated!!! I must be an idiot!!
2. compulsive liar!!!
3. nothing was ever his fault!!!
anyways the list is massive…
I decided that I should see a therapist because even though I say I have boundaries when push comes to shove I was a push over!!!
my therapist had me write a list of all my relationships long-term and short and find the commonality in all of them in short they were all broken in someway or another IE recently separated
I’m a Florence Nightingale LOL how horrible is that???
Plus I don’t have any expectation of them what so ever and what I’ve learned from therapy, if you expect nothing you get nothing!!!
My ex also decided that before he ended it for the second time that he would first find himself another girlfriend “Overlap” which hurt a lot I must say… my friends told me the usual lines of “get over it he has” but he had a cushion to break his fall, I on the other hand had to hit head first with nothing, however now I am stronger more confident and have so much self-respect thanks to my wonderful therapist and Miss Natalie Lue!!!!
Kathleen — On paper, sounds like we dated the same EUM/AC. Mine was also separated, narcissistic and refused to take responsibility for anything including his failed marriage. He’s bitter, angry and a hypocrite. Gross!
Don’t beat yourself up too much. I’m glad you’re seeing a therapist. This site is my therapy. (-: I’ve reflected the last few months on the commonalities of my “decade of do-littles” and there are some but each one was so unique it’s hard to determine…every EUM/AC comes with their own bag/brand of tricks.
I don’t consider myself a classic Nightingale, but I do People Please and Benefit of the Doubt away a lot of red flag behavior. Not sure what kind of advice I can give other than reassurance and commiseration. You’re not alone.
And as far as him finding another…better her than you. I know that’s small comfort right now but you’re the stronger person who doesn’t need an emotional airbag. He does. Says more about him than it does you. You’re actively working to improve and understand, he’s just working his bad juju on her.
I know for me, I felt truly free when it occurred to me not too long ago that EUM/AC was probably seeing someone (I don’t know for certain just intuition) and I didn’t care. Not one fig. Felt a slight twinge of sympathy for the woman — how could I not? and sent out a little prayer of protection for her.
I know EUM never considered what he was putting me through with his “separated” status or the unfairness of it all. He had a “put up or shut up” attitude.
At least we now know what to avoid in the future — mainly separated, lying, self-absorbed, hypocrites. And they have a way of making us feel like bitches when we do stand up for ourselves…if that isn’t a red flag I don’t know what is…stay strong. Hugs!
Kathleen and MRWriter…
Me too. No expectations, being “perfect,” too much Benefit of the Doubt… No more!
I said this on a different post, but it bears repeating.
ANYBODY who calls me a bitch now gets a sweet smile and a huge thank you. BITCH = Babe In Total Control of Herself.
It’s a nasty, petty, put down that always comes up when you’re not bending to the other person’s demands, will, whatever. I for one am PROUD that I am now a BITCH.
Mr Writer I “benefit of the doubt” so easily…I think it must be growing up making all those excuses for the craziness…it is like the kid’s way to cope and not freak out at seeing the dysfunction and it still is hard for me to trust my own judgment unless others validate it or I have a LOT of evidence. Then suddenly I see through toxic people too well and I go running for the hills lol.
Soooo as many of you know I have a toxic colleague who was bullying me and now is bullying someone else in my group. So she got spoken with today, finally, by my boss and the funny part was, after, my colleague said”Yeah, when she cut you off today, that was so rude, it was really uncomfortable.” I agreed but….I had not even noticed nor gotten mad! I am so used to the behavior that I just am on professional autopilot, but it kind of pained me, that I was so dumb to not even get mad.
That happens a lot too, the first time someone is rude to me in relationships in my life. I get so gobsmacked that I just immediately shut down and don’t get angry but instead get timid and scared and just retreat. So hard to stand up for myself and not be polite aka “The good girl” role. ergh…..
Thanks Nat. Your posts help me to look more closely at my behavior in my previous relationships. I understand with 100% clarity that I need to pay more attention to the behavior of the men with whom I become involved with. Then ask myself if how they behave/treat me matches MY values–NOT how I can make myself more worthy to them.
Thank you Gina. I was going to comment and say the same thing, but you summed it up quite well.
NML, this post was excellent. It’s amazing how often we drive ourselves crazy trying to be who we think others want us to be and we base this off of assumptions; we don’t even bother asking if what we are doing IS what they want in the first place.
A guy friend of mine was dating a very nice girl by all accounts, but she was extremely passive and by all accounts a certified doormats. He hated it and dumped her. She thought she was being the “perfect” girlfriend. The thing is none of us are perfect and if you are with an imperfect person who expects perfection from you and cannot provide it themselves, they have the issue.
The irony is that in many cases the more you try to please someone, the more they resent you and lose respect for you. That’s because chronic people-pleasing is a sign of self-disregard. It’s not healthy and it’s not genuine and it actually causes others to think less of you. People do ultimately hate doormats. The message you’re giving is “I don’t think enough to myself to insist on equal treatment in this relationship – therefore you don’t have to think enough of me either.”
The awful thing is that out in AC-land there are plenty of creeps who will have NO PROBLEM taking advantage of people-pleasers and will gobble up all the perks they can get – while at the same time feeling contempt and utter disrespect for them.
Sadder but Wiser
The message you’re giving is “I don’t think enough to myself to insist on equal treatment in this relationship – therefore you don’t have to think enough of me either.”
I cringed when I read that.
I think that is why the ex EUM never thought twice about how his behaviour would impact me. He knew no matter how long it took me he knew I would be back.
It hurts to think I was such a doormat.
Yep – me too. Exactly what SBW said. I can’t change that and neither can you Tulipa but we can learn from it and be glad we found this site and be more authentic in all our relationships in future. I also cringe when I think what a doormat I was, but I stood up for myself yesterday (with a family member who was treating me like shit) and got called a bitch, but I honestly didn’t care because I had enforced my boundaries. It felt strange but I am glad I did it and I know I was right to do so. We need to practice!
@Victorious, awesome job standing up for yourself to family way to go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It does feel good, doesn’t it? Although super uncomfortable sometimes, those standoffs….:)
Also, healthy people tend to shy away from those who give off the message that they don’t think well of themselves, whether it’s people-pleasing or any other unhealthy behavior. “I don’t treat myself well and therefore probably don’t know how to treat you well either.” It’s a big, big red flag.
I have a good friend who at the depths of her low self-esteem kept her apartment a filthy mess. It was not just messy, but dirty, disgusting. It was an outer manifestation of what she thought of herself. None of my attempts to help her change this went anywhere until I finally got her attention when I told her that if she ever met Mr. Wonderful, the minute she brought him back to her place, the message he would get about her was “I live in this pigsty so I obviously don’t care much about myself – and therefore you don’t have to care about me either. Also I won’t be able to care about you.”
3 years of back and forth……. well. i sent him a long text today asking him to please call his cell phone carrier and have my number blocked so i cannot call or text him thru the holidays.. i know me and will want to call him.. he knows me too that i will want to call him.. if he doesn’t want a relationship.. then he shouldn’t want me to keep trying to have one either.. asking for prayers and support.. thank you
Michele… I feel your pain but you need to take your power back. U have to dig deep & flush this man from your life. GO NC..Delete all contact information. U seriously asked him to have your number block?? DO u realize how crazy that sounds.(too me anyway).When you feel the need to contact him distract yourself & remind yourself that you deserve better . Prayers & support sent your way !!
smiling.. “crazy”…. well i think putting up with what i have is crazy…. thank you for your prayers..
If you’ve put up with so much, then why are you still contacting him?
Allison, this is an obvious question — it may seem so simple to you but the answer has alluded many people here in this supportive and kind community. More understanding of HOW to overcome these things is what people are looking for here.
thank you jule….
You can always block his information instead of the other way around. Why wait for him to block yours? 😐
he is the one saying he doesn’t want a relationship…. i am the one who makes most of the initial contacts.. i am asking him so he ann;t hear from me.. f he doesn’t want a relationship with me.. make it easier for both os us…
michele,
To him it may seem like you´re just trying to get his attention. It´s like announcing “Oh I´m not going to pursue you anymore. See how I´m not doing it… Did you notice me not pursuing you?”, etc.
Do you see where I´m getting at? Please don´t do that! Take back your dignity and promise yourself to focus on michele, to discover what a wonderful person she is when she isn´t distracted with some AC.
Michelle,
If he doesn’t want a relationship, then why are you contacting him???
Girl, show yourself some love and respect, and lose the number!
just because he doesn’t want a relationship doesn’t mean he doesn’t like to get ego strokes from your calls and texts! be very very careful michele!
Michele, It’s best to take YOUR power back and take the action. As hard it is to do on your own,you can. Don’t wait for anyone to do it for you. You will make much bigger strides in your recovery if you do the action item of blocking him yourself. I’ve done it myself and trust me, it really really works.
Holy crap. This was me to a T! I’m no longer the over giving, validation seeking woman I used to be and have run off many emotionally unavailable men lately due to sticking to my boundaries and opening up my big yap when something bothers me. Kudos! Love this article. Love love love it! Very empowering.
It amazes me how frequently people excuse People Pleasing behaviour as innocent or good intentioned when it’s actually controlling behaviour – thinking that being “good” or doing something (you think) another person wants or expects will get you XY or Z (affection, love, make them happy).
How often do you find/hear that the People Pleaser has no idea what the other person really wants (through lack of asking/clarifying), then perhaps gets wounded when expected response is not received?
Seems that women are more conditioned to think this way? Although my ex (male) was absolutely shocking for it. So hung up on being a “good” person and using that toxic FOG to gain admiration and narcissistic supply.
Very good point, Sylvie.
“It amazes me how frequently people excuse People Pleasing behaviour as innocent or good intentioned when it’s actually controlling behaviour – thinking that being “good” or doing something (you think) another person wants or expects will get you XY or Z (affection, love, make them happy).“
I love what you said. “People Pleasing behaviour as innocent or good intentioned when it’s actually controlling behaviour.”
I think people who try to be the “good” boyfriend/girlfriend just so they can get the attention/affection they want, create these “covert contracts.” Yes, it is manipulative. So many “nice guys & nice girls” do this. Their back bone turns into jelly and get so upset when people don’t reciprocate.
totally agree with everyone here; I had a relative like that. She would try to get “credit” from you by doing all these over-the-top nice acts and then suddenly turn around and ask you to business baby-sit her laundromat for her for 2 weeks because she did x, y and z once without your asking. It was really just her way of insuring that she would get pay back. It felt really creepy talking to her.
I also had this really sad colleague; she was really fake and upbeat all the time because she obviously had been taught somewhere that she should be like that. It was super uncomfortable being with her. One day I caught her crying and she said”I am sorry I am usually much perkier” and I was like “No honestly you are nicer this way, unhappy and genuine about it”. I felt so badly for her, it was so obvious that she was just ready to crumble one day…
Guilty as charged. I have displayed all of these “good girl” behaviors at one time or another…some of them all at the same time. The good news is, lots of therapy, working on myself, finding out who I am and reading this site voraciously has gotten me to the point that I finally like me, love me and think I’m “perfectly imperfect.” No more people pleasing myself into the grave. The only person I have to “please” anymore is ME!!!
Thanks for this article, it’s a great reminder so I don’t slip back into this lifelong habit.
One of the things I got stuck on in my last breakup was that in my mind, I was doing things right this time. And it still wasn’t enough? I was like, WTF now? For all the positive progress I had made in my own life, I put my self in with a man who was not in a good place with himself. It wasn’t obvious at first, but it became apparent as the holidays rolled around last year. Me being a good person was not the cure for his issues . It took me some time after the breakup to figure out that it didn’t matter how healthy I was if HE wasn’t. I was only going to get so far with him. If I had been PERFECT, it would of only bought me a little time, not a solid relationship. In the immediate aftermath of all this, my self esteem did take a hit because initially I felt like even when I was doing things I perceived to be good and healthy, I was still not worthy in his eyes. I’ve decided his eyes needed glasses. And I confess, I needed a little more growing too. In the future, if my ‘genuine goodness’ is lost on someone who doesn’t care to see it, time to move on and remember who I am.
I concur!!! These people who don’t see us are assuming as much as we have assumed in the past. I banned myself from Fantasyland. It used to be a nice place to visit but it’s a terrible place to live. Reality-Land is much better. Maybe we should get out ex’s magnifying glasses for the holidays! LOL
This really hit home for me. I have been involved with a semi-emotionally unavailable man for the last 15 months. He is classic “walking wounded” who absolutely would NOT let himself get close to me or give a damn about our relationship. We had a 2-week break-up, during which time he realized that he actually had fallen in love with me. We’ve been back together for several months, and although he’s been a lot more committed and involved with our relationship, he is super duper hyper-sensitive about “disrespect”. Any time I try to talk to him about my feelings (especially if he’s done something to hurt them!) he turns into an iceman, accuses me of having “attitude” (not true) and sometimes even calls me names.
Increasingly I find myself feeling like I’m walking on eggshells so as not to upset him or rock the boat. I am afraid to talk to him about any of the issues we have, or the direction our relationship is going, or anything important relating to “us”. This is not who I am–I am a very strong communicator, honest and straightforward (yet still mature and respectful) and I cannot do it with this man. I keep trying out different ways to approach him if I need to discuss something with him, but nothing works–he either gets angry, or annoyed, or just stonewalls me.
Honestly, he’s a terrific guy in many other ways, and we’ve had a lot of wonderful times together. That’s what keeps me holding on, hoping that he’ll see he doesn’t have to be so walled-off and thin-skinned with me…starting to feel like I’m fighting a losing battle though. And dammit, it hurts.
((VelvetGlove))
“he is super duper hyper-sensitive about “disrespect”. Any time I try to talk to him about my feelings (especially if he’s done something to hurt them!) he turns into an iceman, accuses me of having “attitude” (not true) and sometimes even calls me names. ”
Do you see how these 2 statements contradict each other?
velvet
what tigger said. this is what abusive relationships are like. the man who hits you doesn’t hit you on the first date. he’ll elevate himself, put you down and call you names first.
I have terrific and wonderful times with my boyfriend without any of this garbage. You don’t have to take the rough with the smooth. It can be all smooth (other than external circumstances that you tackle together).
Oh definitely, Tigger…and it’s just one of several double-standards in the relationship. Gah, I don’t know why I can’t let him go.
“Gah, I don’t know why I can’t let him go.”
Velvet; you have a hand, you have a mouth and a brain. You “can” let him go anytime you want by using your hand to block his number, using your mouth to talk about it with a counslor and using your brain to stop making excuses. You should at least claim it “I don’t know what I am refusing to let him go but telling myself that I can’t.”
None of us found nc easy. You just do it regardless.:\
couselor, why
Augh darn pad!!! counselor.
Velvet,
You can never expect people to change, as it’s not fair to you, or him. This is who this man, unless, he is able to recognize the problem and correct through therapy. If not, you will forever be walking on eggshells, and be miserable and unfulfilled in your relationship. Ask yourself, why is this enough, as it sounds uncomfortable and too much work?
You can not have a relationship or future, without open communication.
Thanks, Allison, and you’re right, it IS a lot of work sometimes. Other times it’s easy and carefree. I am working through trying to figure out what it is about my and/or my life experiences that would have me tolerate verbal abuse.
Velvet,
I can fully relate to your story. I ended my last relationship with the same type of guy in July. I promise you he is a great person too and we had tons of wonderful times together as well, but he was not a great boyfriend to me. He would put his friends before me all the time and even when we made the commitment to live together, how uncommunicative and non caring about our relationship showed full on.
Let me be the first to tell you, he will not change. He may seem a lot more commited by playing the “good boyfriend” role but he will go back to his non communicative ways again because from how it sounds and from my experience, that is who he IS.
I was always trying to make it work and would have “we need to talk” talks all the time. He would never understand and would just have them just to keep me happy. From what I learned from Natalie I kept trying to define a relationship because it was not being defined.
I understand how hurtful it feels to have him not care to the extent that you do. Sometimes we think with time it will change and we hold on to that wisp of care we got from them but truthfully he is just not invested into the relationship as much as you are right now.
Not saying he can’t be, he just chooses not to be. It’s not your fault for being who you are, I think it takes a strong, mature, good hearted woman to want to communicate to their partner with what their feeling and know they are not going to get it in return.
I can honestly relate to your story and know exactly what it feels like. Be who you are and respect that first. Those are your needs, don’t ignore them just because he is. DON’T SETTLE.
If he chooses to have that emotional block towards you, that’s his problem, not yours and you should really think about moving on to someone who will communicate with you, because that to me is the type of relationship I want.
I hope the best for your situation, you sound like a wonderful woman 🙂
Thank you so much for your reply; I read it three times because it resonated with me so much. I am glad you found it in you to move on from your unfulfilling relationship and that you have peace and happiness now.
Ouch. It sounds like he’s NOT semi-EU. It actually sounds like he has narcissistic tendencies or may be outright Narcissistic. You may want to read up to get a better idea. I say this because some of the phrasing you used to describe him AND the way you react is classic of this disorder.
La Pintura,
I believe my ex was the same Narcissistic as well. Can you please elaborate on why you think that is? I’m really interested. Best regards!
Hi Lisalamb.
The things that made me think VelvetGlove’s ex has narcissistic tendencies are:
1) The Walking Wounded…it’s ALL about his pain and the things that aren’t going well or have been done To HIM. Yet at the same time he would NOT allow them to become close or to give a damn at all about the relationship. He also only realized he’d fallen in love with her AFTER they parted ways for a couple of weeks. It just sounds to me that he needs that constant ego stroking which is a hallmark, but it’s not the least bit reciprocal.
Also the bit about him becoming an ICEMAN and telling her SHE has an attitude and calling her names when she speaks up, contradicts him or asks for anything she needs. Narcs literally see people as objects, possessions and extensions of themselves. If you don’t think exactly like them or do what THEY want, they become punitive…the silent treatment, the vicious digs at your charcter, calling you names, making “jokes” that are anything BUT funny, chopping at your self-esteem until you no longer have any.
Also the words Velvet used to describe her feelings: afraid to speak up about the relationship, not rocking the boat and walking on eggshells around him. It’s textbook. They idealize you, then devalue you and finally dismiss you. And it can also become a never ending cycle of this pattern.
They are also incredibly charming. People who know them but are not in the inner circle thin they are absolutely wonderful. It’s only those who are close to them that see the nasty, abusive side…to the point that you don’t think anyone would ever believe you if you told about what they are really like.
My father is a narc…so I have lifelong, first hand knowledge. And this description sounds exactly like my dad.
Thank you La Pintura. That is EXACTLY how my ex was and still is til this day. So many of his “crew ” places him on this pedastool. I couldnt do that anymore I couldnt see him with those eyes after being constantly disrespected. He was not good and still is not. I want no part of him.
Me and Velvet sound super similar. I felt like I was not only going to be disrespected by him but all his friends if I spoke up and thats exactly what happened. I still get pissed til this day when he tries to contact me or his “friends” tag me in facebook posts with me in it. I grunt, roll my eyes and untag myself then move on.
Everyone took it as a joke but I didnt. He let everyine disrespect me while still living with eachother after I broke up with him to protect his ego. With time I will have complete peace and not have my stomach turn when he’s in my face.
Thanks so Much again, this was a tremendous help 🙂
You are welcome. Narcs are TRULY toxic people. The best thing to do is to steer clear of them, fade away without them knowing and NEVER tell them you now what they are.
Very keen advice I will have to remember. Thank you 🙂
How did you become so wise?
You’re welcome. Unfortunately by being born to and raised by a narc 🙁 AND lots of therapy! 😀
Actually, I agree with you. I don’t think he is a diagnosable (is that a word? lol) narcissist, but he most certainly has some of the classic narcissitic behaviors and attitudes. He is very difficult at times, and can also be very intimidating as well.
Your description reminded me of my ex-roommate. Functional in so many ways, so many things to NOT complain about at all, but if I actually had something to complain about, I was being rude/immature/hurtful/awful etc and got the freeze-out.
When I read it in your words, I see that this guy just isn’t in the relationship with you for the same reasons: he can’t want openness, trust, sharing, vulnerability, mutual respect, etc. He might want ego strokes, a soft place to be when he’s feeling needy, or the reflection of himself he sees in your eyes when he sees that you admire him.
I thought I was being a good roommate: got her gifts at Xmas and birthday, listened to her when she needed to vent, hosted parties together with her – I WAS a “good” roommate, but none of that made her respect me.
It still irks me a bit when I think of how I gave her a present for her birthday right about the same time she was showing me that she had not a thought in her head about showing me respect.
Why did I keep trying to show her I was good? Trying to right old wrongs, maybe: reliving some old thing about trying to get the politely racist soccer moms to not look horrified that their son had brought me into their respectable home.
Is there some old battle you get to play out by hoping he’ll suddenly drop his walls? Whether yes or no, you being patient with his refusal to discuss your concerns will not change his refusal to see himself as causing any concern he needs to bother himself with.
Ironically, two other relationship blogs, both run by men tell us womyn just the opposite, to dumb down, be a nice June Cleaver type, don’t have many expectations of men, and essentially settle. Focus on being “hot”, if you’re not hot, you’re doomed. I’ll take my warts any day, along with my education, love of books and intelligent conversation, hyperactivity, and predilection for chopping firewood rather than cooking and a decent man ought to as well. June Cleaver probably was a closet alcoholic; how else could one live that way? Nat is right, bad things do happen to good people. Because we have always tried to treat folks decently, AND because we are decent, we do not go through partners right and left, we often don’t see a lot of AC type behaviors coming and are completely floored by them. Someone who chronically dates around will have experienced a wider spectrum of AC/EUM situations. I too struggle with trying to be positive and not loose hope too but often I become very cynical, negative, and jaded. My dad goes under the knife yet again tomorrow and right now I dont give a rats about anything else. It’s damned hard to go through hurt/ frustration/ loneliness for years without support and still force yourself to keep your chin up. A good way to learn about the various permutations of AC behavior is by reading some of Nats past posts.
“June Cleaver probably was a closet alcoholic; how else could one live that way?”
My ex-husband demanded the June Cleaver wife. He always let me know that I never met his expectations, no matter how hard I tried.
He is seeking a perfection that doesn’t exist. He always blamed me for his unhappiness. “If only you would/ would not do this or that, then I’d be happy in this marriage…”
And yes, I was a closet alcoholic…
June Cleaver = Stepford Wife. How scary is that? And boring.
Sending hugs re your dad (((( ))))
Eventually, when I let the ‘real’ me out… Him, and the relationship (or whatever ‘it’ was) was over. It was done. I still felt hurt, anger, and disappointment. But I think that was more about how long (long time!) it took ‘realization’ to kick in. On one hand I felt like i regret all of that time I wasted, on the ‘wiser’ hand…. The experience(s) (mostly not good) eventually, and gradually… lead me to my ‘authentic’ self. For which I am grateful… Cause’ I can detect a loser/Assclown from a mile away. Not bitter, more ‘aware’. No longer angry… There’s gratitude and appreciation. I emotionally matured. It’s really difficult to ‘get it’ when you’re in it… And no one can tell you what to do, until you mature, emotionally, and ‘realize’ you’re good enough no matter who’s watching. We’re all not 100% every day… In every category. Whether it’s kids, career, family…. And relationships. A guy who is truly in love with you, loves you as is. Doesn’t emotionally or mentally abuse…. But actually gives a damn. Consistently. And you don’t feel like you ‘have’ to do much besides reciprocate the love you’re receiving. I learned not so long ago… Not to take things so damn personally, stop 2nd guessing/doubting myself… And putting myself down, Or feeling guilty for not always being ‘good’. I know who I am, and what I want. That feeling is better than any best day (very few) I had tip-toe’ing and faking w the ex Assclown.
My ex didn’t want me to be good. He just wanted me to be good the way he saw it … and his idea of “goodness” changed as often as his mood changed. I think I will do some self validation now, it’s a lot less troublesome 😉
in my last relationship i was ‘good’. i was happy (at first) and wanted him to be happy as well. i treated him with love, care and respect. i never felt i was losing myself, or not being authentic. but i learnt something. it doesn’t matter how ‘good’ you are. if your partner is EU, he or she is simply INCAPABLE of receiving your love, let alone returning it.
when a friend of mine told me this recently, finally the light bulb went on.
You are so right Natashya! It doesn’t matter what YOU do if the EUM/AC can’t return the same kind of feelings or care.
finally truly realising that has been a turning point in my ‘recovery’. just the night before i was weeping on the floor after reinstating NC and ‘missing’ him (not sure why) and wondering why i wasn’t ‘good enough’. when my friend pointed the above out to me, things changed. yes, i was good enough, i AM good enough. he is the one who messed this up by being emotionally unavailable and unwilling to work on himself and his issues. in the end, he is the one who lost.
Same story here. It’s like you try to provide an emotional safe environment and the UE men and women cannot deal with something that easy. My ex would always hint that I wasn’t at her level and it turns out that she had the problem. The UEs are afraid and running. All the while, my UE was projecting and purposely killing the relationship because she felt that she wasn’t good enough. I think it makes an UE feel better if they project.
The posters here may have weaker boundaries or working to fix those boundaries but they are at least trying to figure the world out and feel better about themselves. The UEs seem to be stuck in the same pattern.
Some men can be rotten in this day and age.
539
Like the other posters on here, I feel as though Natalie has a way of talking directly to me. You are everyone’s “best girlfriend.” Anyhoo…I’m guilty of trying to measure up and be the better person not only in romantic relationships but platonic/professional too. I hate to disappoint.
For me, the tricky part is being good as an extension of your authentic self in that you want to do good for the right reasons versus being good only to please or accommodate even at the cost of your boundaries, identity and self-preservation.
Trying to be “good” or a better person is admirable and in this day of age, sorely lacking. When it’s done as a last ditch method or out of desperation, then, yeah not so good or healthy.
I was guilty of playing the “good gf role” with this year’s EUM/AC partially because I was on shaky ground/thin ice out of the gate. Hello red flag alert! I had never been w/ a separated man (w a small child) before and thought stupidly I was being more mature by engaging in what I thought was “above my pay grade” although now I think it was actually well “below my pay grade.” I bent over backwards in empathy, thinking the best, not demanding…etc. because (and for honest intent) I didn’t want to cause or inflict more pain and confusion for him during his personal upheaval.
The irony is I probably did hurt him (hurt = like a skinned knee) in that I shouldn’t have gotten involved in the first place and because I was so afraid to ask for more than he could probably give…I got very little in return. Good for him.
I share my responsibility in the dynamic I helped to create by being so “good” I was “bad” to myself and allowed him to bust my boundaries and gave him the confidence to do so until I was fed up, angry and resentful. His arrogance and my being “good” set us up to fail as he took me for granted.
Being good and understanding with the right person who isn’t self-absorbed and reciprocates kindness and thoughtfulness should be its own reward.
No matter how “good” a person is, they cannot alone be enough to save a “bad” relationship.
I did this in my last serious relationship. Unfortunately it was also with a passive, people pleasing cheat who was also a compulsive liar. You get fed good stuff and when bad signs are there you don’t want to believe it and see them for what they are.
I have trouble seeing my own needs but as much as I can I express them now and it hasn’t resulted in anything bad happening. I am me. I may be willing to engage in healthy compromise but if being “me” means the relationship doesn’t work, then it wasn’t meant to be!
“being a good person is really about having moral purpose and living your life in line with your values”.
Agree heartily and it’s impossible to do this if you’re choosing someone who isn’t doing the same. Of course, we can’t help who are parents are or our bosses (to a point) or our family but to go out and choose someone flaky, irresponsible, clueless, dishonest, married is not helping us to be good. It’s helping us to be helpless, indecisive, maybe feel morally superior, dreamy, irresponsible, distracted from our lives.
When my relationship started out I had a nagging feel that I had to tell my boyfriend about my dodgy past, including the abuse, as an excuse for any future bad behaviour on my part or to warn him that I might not be 100% available. I also wanted sympathy. I quashed that urge. It did finally come out naturally in conversation, he did express sympathy, and it hasn’t been mentioned since. It doesn’t matter to the relationship that I had a terrible childhood and abusive relationships. I can still be a functioning, responsible adult who can stand up for what I believe in (if I have to, I can’t be bothered with looking for trouble). I live my values. I pick someone who has the same values. I don’t need to keep having that fight of winning someone over or changing them with my “goodness”. Which wasn’t even that good anyway!
I see and understand that many of us see our perserverance, understanding and patience in these bad situations as goodness but it’s a misuse and limited. If you got out you’d find your goodness much better expressed. And if you got into a loving relationship, you are free to give your values free rein instead of always having to be “cool” and a “good girlfriend/boyfriend”/doormat.
grace,
thanks for making the link between the urge to confess all the past hurts – it took me such a long time to realize that urge was about not wanting a certain kind of responsibility for making choices about men and about my own life.
In that space, I could believe I was “good” because I listened, gave (what I wanted to give), was good at my work, etc but would have howled at any insinuation that I was falling down in other areas of being truly responsible for myself and to others.
I still need to orient myself more toward living life according to values that fulfil me. I know something is still empty and that my knee-jerk thought is that a man will fill it, but I have enough calm now to move on to the next thought.
there are indeed better ways to express my goodness than proving I’m lovable to someone who doesn’t see it (unless that someone is me).
Natalie this one brought tears to my eyes. I was that performing seal. The more he emotionally withdrew, the “better” I thought I had to be, just to persuade him I was worth keeping around. I was silenced. I did not dare ask questions. I cooked roast dinners, baked cakes, ran around after him like he was The Last Man On Earth, never complained about his perpetual lateness and his treating me less and less like a priority. Eventually I realized he would just let me keep on keeping on, and that I was dying a slow death. I ended it, but then fell back in for a while on the “friendship” nightmare before going NC again. Thanks so much for this post. I need to read it again and again as, unfortunately, I probably will see him at a work meeting very soon. A few weeks ago I was still thinking I “didn’t trust myself around him.” Now I think reading this and all Natalies posts has brought me closer to being able to say with absolute confidence that NOTHING would make me stick my hand in that fire again. All that being the Girlfriend From Heaven probably just made him despise me even more. No good beating myself up about it now. Have to learn from it and carry all my new found knowledge into the rest of my life, and be more authentic in future.
there’s nothing wrong with cooking roast dinners and baking cakes to make somebody else happy. i do this for my friends as well. it’s the fine line between doing it because the authentic YOU wants to do it and desperation to pull someone else closer to you (or bribery, really).
i did a lot of people pleasing in my marriage and it made very resentful. i remember when he left, that i took the toilet paper roll and stuck it back ‘the wrong way’, just because i could without having to deal with his criticism. lovely feeling, that.
You are right Natashya. I was in supergirlfriend overdrive though. I was DESPARATE to prove to him that he would never get another girlfriend as wonderful as me. Wouldn’t it have been nice if we were just doing kind things for each other in the knowledge that it was appreciated and valued? Sadly that was not the case. He appreciated what I cooked but it didn’t change the value he placed on me. If anything it diminished because he could sense how much I was panicking and how far I would go to get him to “keep me on” just like Natalie says. Pathetic! never again.
okay I feel dumb; what is the right way to put the tp? Up or down, really does someone bother with that?
I wish that I could be that mentally present; I am so busy I just snatch the roll and shove it on the thing.One more thing to beat myself up about lol:)
This one brought tears to my eyes as well, Victorious. I did quite a performance too. A part of my angst over the fallout was because I think I despised myself. But(hehe)…. I also know that some of my tears are of joy. For how much I’ve learned and knowing that I will never allow myself to be silenced again. Yay!
The first memory that this post brought up was of me about eight years ago, desperately unsure of myself and in a desperately unsure relationship, breaking down into tears over an egg.
For months I’d been trying to make the perfect full English for my boyfriend’s hungover Sunday mornings, with all the usual and things like white pudding and kidneys (ugh) and hash browns. I’d spend the week assembling the ingredients, then toiled frantically for half an hour trying to get everything so that it was hot and ready at the same time. Then at the last minute I popped the yolk of the egg.
When he woke up, he was (understandably) more upset about the near-hysterical girlfriend than he was about the egg. Although I should probably mention that he was still a bit peeved about the egg.
I have been guilty of being a “good girl” & always pleasing the last guy I went out with on & off for 8 months. He’s a family friend & divorced with a teenage son, whom he has at weekends. He explained away his marriage failing 10 years ago down to his ex-wife getting what she wanted out of him & then left him. But the truth is he’s just workshy & she probably got fed up of maintaining him. I ended up over giving & getting little in return. He was selfish & everything was all about what he wanted & his needs; my needs rarely got met. Things got too intense too quick. There were red flags & my gut instinct was telling me he’s not right, but I thought at the time things would change for the better. I expressed my feelings to him & asked what was happening with us as this was not going anywhere. He said that he was not misleading me & not cheating on me. It was just he had a lot on from the College as he’s a mature student & promised that he would try harder. It turned out he was just telling me what I wanted to hear & wasn’t honest. I ended up busting my boundaries but he eventually disappeared on me anyway, 4 weeks after we came back from a weekend away. I was strung along, misled, lied to, used, unappreciated & rejected. When I dared to get my point across by messaging him on fb how disrespectful he was for disappearing on me, he replied with a sob story he was suffering from heavy depression & needed to be alone. I started NC at that point & a few days after his reply, he blocked me on fb. I guess he didn’t trust me to leave him alone. I’ve never heard from him again so far. Good riddance I’d say. Brilliant post Nat
I did this with the College Ex. He’d get mad at me out of the blue, and I’d have to do Jedi mind tricks to figure out WTF was going on. {Ugh, the back-flips (although few) that I did for him… thank goodness I was religious (so was he) back then because if sex had been entered into the equation, I can’t imagine what I would’ve done. 😐 } Anyway, since I couldn’t figure out anything, I bought the Mars/Venus book and read it religiously to see what I could do to be the perfect girlfriend. After 3.5 years, there wasn’t a damn thing I could do to be the perfect girlfriend because he did a disappearing act and dumped me over the phone anyway. 😐
“Many of us have been raised with this idea that being “good” is super-important. In fact, many of us have been raised with the idea (or certainly interpreted it as such) that if we are good, people will treat us well, hence ipso facto the assumption is that if we’re not treated well then we must have been “bad”. This sticks with us from our childhoods and even when we become adults, we forget to mature our perceptions or adjust our behaviours.”
“I know that sometimes when things don’t go my way, I can almost a see a three-year old version of me in red coat stomping my right foot in a huff and wanting to flounce off, possibly not before I’ve given them as much of a reproachful stare as I can muster.”
— Never making any waves because when you were little, you were appreciated for “not making trouble”. You say what you think people want to hear and you do what you think people want you to do.
I was also “good” in general as a youngster – behaved very well in school overall, excellent grades/honors classes, no drinking or drugs or sex, faithfully attending church without question, not much rocking the boat in or out of the house. I was fighting against my true nature in a sense – the real Spinster vs. the Spinster that I (and surely others) thought I was supposed to be. Sometimes both came out, and most times the people-pleasing Spinster came out. That doesn’t happen as much anymore (though it still comes up sometimes); thank goodness for age & wisdom.
Thanks Natalie for this post, I even realised that I was NOT a good girlfriend haha. I remember my AC used to say: “You such a perfect woman for me, only if you keep your mouth shut and do not argue that much”…I was real me and he did not like it:) I just cant pretend, it is my nature…
Natalie, the phrase in your post that caught my eye was “living in La-La land.” Aiming for the reward, not the individual. Isn’t that the point of picking an EUM? We can keep giving, trying, hoping, and in the process, avoid all our own uncomfortable feelings? If we actually secured these men—what then?
This week has been a landmark. I let go of the MM some weeks ago. Despite my going NC, his tentacles kept creeping me toward me. He rang the other night to say he “can’t decide which woman to be with.” I can’t tell you how that phrase made my flesh crawl, as though I had been participating in some kind of race to win him, the Big Prize. It was easy to say, “There is nothing to decide. We are not together anymore,” and ring off.
But the main thing that hit me was that NC has allowed me to get out of La-La Land and see him more clearly—for the selfish man he is—and that no amount of tossing my ‘goodness’ into that deep black hole would ever have brought me anything remotely satisfying. I would only have continued to avoid myself.
I reread many, many of all your posts thru the night. I blocked FB, deleted his number and every sent/rec’d/trash em–making a conscious decision to walk away from the fantasy. It’s like emerging from a dark forest.
My EU husband and I were to meet in London next week. I rang and said no. I am not going through another visit with him turning his face when I kiss him hello, and me in a constant state of distress. I have had enough of unavailability. It’s only made me unavailable to myself.
I am ready to look at me, not them. I have the name of a new therapist. Tx, Nat, and everyone who posts here.
Good for you! The longer you’re out in the sunshine and fresh air, the less you’ll want to return to the dark, oppressive forest. This MM sounds like the jerk of all time. I really feel sorry for his wife who might be sincerely trying to salvage her pitiful marriage and doesn’t know what her scum husband is doing behind her back to sabotage her efforts. You don’t want to be part of that, do you?
Thanks for your encouragement, S-b-W. That poor wife! “Now when she starts an argument,” he told me, “I just put up my hand and tell her, ‘We can call it quits anytime’ and she stops.” That could have been me, being controlled like that. Another scary one: “Now that she’s behaving, there’s really no good reason for me to leave. I mean, I love you, but—is it really love?” Only for yourself, AC, only for yourself.
It’s interesting when they reveal themselves, so cynical and full of contempt. Mine was careful generally not to say stuff like that; but I daresay his thought processes may not have been so different.
Mymble, I’d never looked at it that way before, in terms of contempt. You’re right. He said he intends to tell his wife about the affair. It strikes me as incomprehensibly vicious, to do that to someone who is desperately happy to have you home. No, it isn’t my business, but after all the shenanigans I endured, did I ever think I would be happy to be the (far-removed) OW and not that poor woman? Just glad we have Natalie and this site.
I was just journaling today about Fantasy-Land vs. Reality. Now that I’m out of it, I’ve realized that I’m really grateful this happened. I needed the wake up call to stop this insanity.
I am NC and was feeling the urge to try to get answers yesterday. Great plan…NOT! BTW, I sat on my hands until the feeling passed. I realized today that answers won’t matter. We were meant to be together so I could learn what I needed to learn. And holding on to the fantasy of him and/or us is preventing me from making room for the man I am meant to be with. The EUM/AC was prep… nothing more. He’s served his purpose in our meeting and I’m really able now to Let Go and Let God.
@Swissmiss:ick, ick, ick what a blusterbomb. I hate, hate, hate when you get stuck replaying their overblown, ego blowing bullcrap in your head. And telling yourself “Why, oh why, did I not say something to point out what a boring, ego-driven ass he is?” The problem is, when someone says that, the only really appropriate thing is to laugh and say “really?” but instead it is so hideous it just makes one speechless.
Swiss,
What an ego this man has. Yuck!
You’re on your way! The deleting of e-mails and contact info is very cleansing, I know it was for me.
Please do not respond to any more of his contact, as he could draw you back to the nothing relationship.
Does the wife know?
Allison-
Someone, in a post, had suggested the blocks/deletions to me, and yet, my fingers wavered for weeks. I couldn’t do it. I needed the validation. But wow! It is magic when you make that decision. No turning back! The realization that none of those words meant ANYTHING is liberating. I had been sitting around, waiting for HOT AIR.
He said he intends to tell his wife. I don’t care WHAT he does, but I will be watching my back. She was violent for years, and I can see him giving all the details and encouraging her to confront me: these ACS like to keep the circus going so they can continue to be the ringmaster. Ironically, I am keeping my fingers crossed that she will remain in her new role as the ‘good girl’, the position I just vacated.
I look forward to being grateful for this experience. Soon, soon.
Swissmiss
She probably isn’t violent. If it’s him that told you that he probably just said it to deter you from telling her. And I doubt he has the slightest intention of telling her anything. Again to ore-empt you from doing it. You’re broken up so he’s probably crapping himself that you’ll get mad and angry and contact her.
Do be careful though, block him and her on everything.
I agree!
I wouldn’t believe a word that comes out of this guy’s mouth.
The bit about threatening to leave if she acted up, sounded like a load of crap!
This must be so because I see people all the time and wonder “who in the world would love them when they’re like that!?” And some people love them just the way they are even if they’re loud and annoying.
My “Mr One Month” saga continues. I have made complete NC for a month, have absolutely NO interest in getting back with this guy. So, I go out to a movie last night with a group I belong to. Guess who shows up?? Now, 1. when we were ‘dating’ (I use that term loosely because we only ‘dated’ one month, tried to sleep with me/move too fast/fast forward, etc) I told him about this movie group I belong to and he flat out told me he didn’t understand that concept of a group of people going out to pay for a movie and taking up the entire theater, blah blah. At the time I agreed with him (the people-pleasing syndrome in this article, right? GAH!). When I saw him last night smoozing and being friendly to everyone, AND when the group organizer asked him if he had ever been to a movie with the group he said YES. I’m thinking WTF, right? As we were standing there waiting to go into the theater he comes up to me, asks me how I’ve been, then said to ‘call me sometime (insert awkwardness here)…if you want to.” He always wears glasses – he didn’t wear them last night. Then, when I went into the theater there he was with two women sitting on either side of him. Yeah, I glanced at him and he quickly looked away from me. I got curious and checked the group’s website…guess when he joined? November 26, after we had been broken up. I’m proud of myself for only second-guessing myself one time briefly between last night and now. LOL He simply has different values than me, tried to talk me out of what I believe and also thought about how fast we went in the beginning. I know I made the right choice in breaking up with him, and will maintain NC. And, I will NOT let him pull any crap if he continues to sign up for the same movies as me. GOD these men!!
Kathy
Uggh. That’s very creepy and stalkery. It made me feel anxious just thinking about it.
This is a guy who really does not take no for an answer.
Please do be careful with your personal safety.
I agree 100% with Mymble. I think it’s A LOT more than having different values. He sounds very controlling and my gut feeling is there is something VERY off with this guy…like possible restraining order candidate. Please be very careful. You may want to consider documenting every encounter with this guy.
Thanks, guys. I also got a little twinge when I saw him, and it wasn’t the good kind. LOL I’ve unfriended and blocked him from Facebook, plus saved all his emails and my responses. In one of his emails he told me he wasn’t ‘one of those stalker guys’…well, if not, then why even mention it?
Oh KayakerKathy…
That is just creepy beyond words. They DO tell us exactly who they are, even when they think they’re being sly and in control. I think he admitted he IS a stalker. Be careful, make sure you are aware at all times who is around you. I’m keeping my fingers crossed that he just fades away to nothing.
Hi Kayakerkathy,
I just wanted to say that I’m aware of your story and remember all of your various comments as well as responses with some even dismissing this guy’s behaviour as if he was ‘pleading his case’ or his behaviour was flattering and you should give him a chance. I want you to know that you were 150% right to tell this man to take a run and jump and that you have every right to be concerned about this man’s behaviour and that you should keep a note of any and all attempts by him to make contact with you or where he shows up at places where you are. Not one single bit of his behaviour is what I would consider “flattering” and his behaviour is a very disproportionate response to a short involvement and a clear busting of your boundaries. This man does not know how to take no for an answer. We can make the mistake of thinking that he’s just “being a man” or “crazy about us” – male or female, being a grownup who doesn’t respect a person’s right to say NO is unacceptable.
It does not matter whether your reasons for not wanting to continue seeing him were silly (they weren’t silly at all) – you have said that you don’t want to be with him anymore. You do not need his permission to call an end to your involvement, a breakup is not a democratic decision, and he has actually exemplified and validated all of your reasons why you don’t want to continue.
I admire you for standing your ground and trusting your instincts. Please continue. Don’t respond to any attempts on his part and if you become concerned, do speak with police about him as if he would pull this bullshit on your short involvement, I imagine you are not the only woman to have had concerns about him.
The Truth is in the Dare. You can’t find what you are after if you don’t look inside. It means being brave & climbing in bed with your own head. Moving past all that smoke screens you have been carrying around for years. What you think you ought to be.
Breathing through the pain that chokes you , your eyes stinging through the tears. Til you see YOU underneath. Then smiling & saying “ok I got this”. And whatever , even whoever, that doesn’t fit or get you anymore, you let go. You don’t look back. You don’t wrap yourself in regret.You just lift your head up & walk on. That is being Fearless. That is owning yourself!
Hi, Natalie,
I am working on seeing situations and people for what and who they are, rather than “bad” and “good”. I grew up with the bad vs. good from my parents, and most of the time whatever I did was “bad”-my grades weren’t good enough, I was overweight and then not pretty, if my room wasn’t clean then I was bad. If I didn’t “love” the way my mother desperately needed (she is an extreme narcissist), then I was bad. I was never told I was good or just fine the way I am. And when my ex and I would fight, I found myself saying to him, “why do you think I’m such a bad person?!”. He would say that it wasn’t a good person or bad person thing, but I felt like I was being told I was a bad girlfriend, a bad person, a bad human being. My ex is an emotionally unavailable person who I broke up with at the end of August. And during our 8 year relationship, I played the “good girlfriend” b/c like you said, I didn’t want him to have reason to choose someone else over me. I thought if I did all the right “good” things, eventually he would overcome his problems and realized he wanted to be with me. I was killing my soul over this and putting my power in his hands. I thought if I cooked amazing meals, kept the apartment nice, got him donuts from the market as if I was reading his mind, let him play his endless video games while ignoring me, watched the tv shows he wanted, go to the places he wanted, order in the food he wanted, have sex with him when he wanted even if I didn’t want to, etc. that I was being good, so I would get rewarded. I was scared that if I didn’t do any of these things, he would think I was being withholding and then want to find someone else that would give give give to him. I did not know any better and I totally discarded my needs and wants. In the few months since I broke up with him and realized enough is enough and I was done with his emotional abuse, I have felt liberated and finally I could be myself. And now I can work on this when it comes up, on a daily basis, do my homework on MYSELF. I have recently started an unexpected relationship (I thought I would be single for years after breaking up with my ex, and that would have been fine for me) with an amazing, loving, and generous person. This new person is everything I wanted in a relationship before my ex or other boyfriends. It is what I always wanted for myself if I could have the best for myself. He is patient through my progress (he had recently gone through some similar life changes) and last night, we had an argument. We were talking about a mutual acquaintance and he said I was being negative about her. I felt like I was being labeled “bad” and I got all worked up about it. Feelings of shame and rejection. Getting sucked back to my childhood feelings without even realizing that’s what was happening until I thought about it after (a lot of my issues keep going back to that child that never got the love from my mother that I needed and am coming to terms with that and loving myself that way instead). Those feelings are bubbling at the surface, ready to boil over at any second I realized more than I knew and it’s something for me to work on. I don’t want to live in reaction to my childhood anymore because this is MY life now, and I don’t want to keep handing it over to my mother and the person I wished she was. The conversation with the new person in my life was difficult and it was heavy, but ultimately, it made me aware about the work I need to do regarding my childhood feelings and boundary issues (not having any, not knowing how to stand up for myself) that I have. I also realized that I had been violated many times in my life but because I didn’t have the skills to stand up for myself and create boundaries. Again, b/c if I did, I would look mean or like a bitch or uncaring-all things “bad”. And recently, creating boundaries with my mother, it’s not easy, but I am much happier and feel stronger. For years, I felt scared to make the boundaries b/c I did not want to be perceived as a bad daughter and awful person. But my mother tells her friends and anyone who listens anyway that my sister and I are horrible daughters to her and look at how awful we are to her (while she is oblivious to her own narcissism and how it has contributed to the lack of relationship we want with her, while she revises/rewrites history instead of facing reality). So what do I have to lose by creating boundaries?!!! I did it and still work at maintaining them, even though she tries to keep pushing on them and moving them. And I am getting over feeling like a “bad” person about doing it b/c I feel so much better, stronger, empowered, and happier. She thinks just bc she is my mother, she can infringe on my life and boundaries however way she wants with no regard for what I want/need in my life. And that’s an easy thing to get sucked into and feel guilty about if you don’t agree b/c you’re not supposed to not like your mom or you’re supposed to have a close relationship with her. I’m sifting through the old programming I grew up with and has settled into my bones and flowed through my blood and picking out the things that I don’t need or want anymore, the things holding me back, and relearning a better way to live, see the world, and be myself and be happier. and to not see things as “good” or “bad” behavior. I told the new person I am with that I am working on myself and I am not going to rush it or say things people want to hear. It’s my work that I am doing everyday and it’s on my time. And it’s happening. This is my authentic self. And he told me that’s all he wants me to be and that we are in this together. Everyone who reads this and has gone through this knows this-there is nothing that feels better than being yourself.
I was the “good girlfriend”, the good wife” for many years. Ironically, I married a man who was an overgiver. It was smothering and as the years went by I totally lost who I was. I’d been breathing only, not living so that when my husband passed away, added to profound grief, was the question “Who am I?, Where do I start in order to begin managing my life, unassisted? How do I create a life for myself in which I can be at least content?”. I had much insecurity and questions. I’ve realized that I was being so “good” because I felt that that was what he deserved, as I was his china doll that might easily break if he did not treat me with great care. And yet, prior to my marriage I’d been a single mom for 16 years managing just fine. He was a wonderful husband, and yet, I would not want that again. Over the past 7 years I’ve been able to take back who I was. I’ve realized how crucial it is to be yourself, warts and all. If the “new man” doesn’t like it he can take a hike. After a tremendous amount of work on myself, I’m now in a new relationship which, so far, is so right and fulfilling for ME as well as for him. No pretense or one-sidedness. I don’t have to be “good” to keep him. When I revert back with statements of how I should/could be better (in order to please him) he reminds me that it’s not necessary. He’s deeply happy with me as is. It’s 5 months now, so things are still new. However, we are remarkably comfortable with each other. He is very upbeat, positive and sincere. I think the fact that he is 9 years older (same age difference as my husband and I) helps, because he has no interest in games. We BOTH want a long term permanent relationship with each other. I never would have thought I’d ever be so happy with a man again. Never did I even expect to meet one. But from day one there’s been no blinders for either of us. We’ve talked openly and honestly about our pasts and we accept each other. Things are progressing in a natural way. It is a huge load off of my mind to not endeavor to be someone I am not, and is very gratifying not to be walking on eggshells. My husband rests in peace because I was a “good wife”. But, that was then and this is NOW.
Tinkerbell, I am very pleased for you:) ALL the best, hope you will find a true happiness with this guy!
Thank you so much for posting this, I’ve needed it lately. I’m in a relationship with a kind, wonderful man, and I’ve been tying myself into knots by being afraid of “screwing up” in front of him. It’s especially odd when you consider that he is probably the first man I’ve dated who isn’t so concerned about putting me ‘in my place'(some previous guys I’ve dated have had issues with my career aspirations). But I’ve been terrified of making a mistake. For example, I bought a plane ticket to visit him for Thanksgiving (we’re long-distance right now), but I didn’t put much consideration into picking a time that would work with his schedule–I was impulsive, and just wanted to see him. When he mentioned that it was a little inconvenient, it took so much not to beat myself up over such a small thing. My rational side knows how silly it is–he’s not going to leave me if I’m not always kind and considerate (I’m human, it’s expected that I WILL mess up!). But my emotional side feels like if I don’t fit the good girlfriend mold, he’ll leave. A few years ago, a crush from 2007 who suddenly gave me a cold shoulder out of nowhere told me that he treated me the way he did because he saw who I really was, and he didn’t like it. Somehow what he’s said has stuck around in some unfortunate ways, even though I know it isn’t the truth.
I managed to get to a place where I actually like myself 5 years ago, but I still struggle from time to time. I know on an intellectual level that I can’t earn someone’s love by trying to be a perfect person, but when people cite ‘the real you’ as a reason for walking away, it seems like one is stuck between a rock and a hard place. I think I’ll be bookmarking this page for a little while, as a message from my rational side in the hopes that my emotional side eventually gets the message! Thanks again.
“A few years ago, a crush from 2007 who suddenly gave me a cold shoulder out of nowhere told me that he treated me the way he did because he saw who I really was, and he didn’t like it…when people cite ‘the real you’ as a reason for walking away, it seems like one is stuck between a rock and a hard place”.
I know this one really well. Most of my self-esteem issues have come from my teenaged years when I DID behave in a fairly antisocial, very annoying and not-very-nice way. It’s difficult to ‘be yourself’ when you feel as though ‘being yourself’ is just an awful thing that will alienate anyone unlucky enough to have to witness it (and isn’t the reason that we get involved with Bad Prospects so that nobody will?)
However, on the grounds that it’s easier to do this for someone else than it is for yourself, here are my thoughts.
1) The ‘Real You’? How did HE know? What qualifications does he have that enable him to discern, out of the myriad qualities and the good points and bad points and mood-swings and genetic tendencies and learned behavious that ALL three-dimensional human being have, which ONE of them contained the concentrated essence of your entire personality?
What a great big arrogant goat. His opinion is about as objective and reliable as anyone else’s (ie not very).
Probably, in a certain light, you suddenly resembled the lady that owned the dog that bit his hand when he was thirteen and doing his paper-round. I bet that it probably (were he to know it himself) boiled down to something as nonsensical as that.
2) You’re not perfect, at various times in your life you’re probably going to be very annoying and/or wrong and/or unkind and/or inconsiderate and/or whatever. It means that you’re human and you may as well get over it.
I find it difficult – and I really go genuinely want to grow and learn and become a better person than I am – to reconcile the concept of trying to improve with the concept of Not Living My Life In Fear Of Screwing Up.
There’s a lovely quote by CS Lewis that goes “how monotonously alike all the great tyrants and conquerors have been: how gloriously different are the saints”. I think that one of the features of genuinely improving as a person is that you become MORE yourself, not less – how samey are all the ACs to read about?
Becoming more yourself means taking risks, sometimes messing up and being honest about the fact that you’re human and you’ve got flaws as well as your myriad good points. If you freak out at the sign of even the slightest personality defect then nobody’s ever going to get close enough to see your REALLY good points – the ones that you probably aren’t even aware of.
Also – if it’s any comfort – I’m reliably informed by all of the (happily) married couples I know that there comes a point in every relationship where you could happily smack the other person over the head with something heavy and walk out forever. Annoying the other person to the limit of their endurance is, I believe, a feature of any relationship that is going to work.
Longest message in the world and I’m still not done…
“It means that you’re human and you may as well get over it.”
It occurs to me that this is all very well, but if you’ve had overwhelmingly negative feedback and hurtful experiences because you’ve ‘been human’ then it’s difficult to overcome.
It isn’t as straightforward as saying (as I often say to myself) “oh, how arrogant you are to want to be better than the next person”. So I hope I didn’t give that impression.
I’m not sure of the answer, other than recognising that, to some extent, it’s fear that is holding you back and that, ultimately, you’re alright. You’ve as much excuse as the next person for not always getting things right and you’re allowed to make mistakes. And then living as though you believe it until you do 🙂
Your words ring so true, yet again!
I spent the whole of the relationship with my ex in this unhealthy fashion. Tried to be the perfect girlfriend and then tried to be the perfect wife. Nearly lost myself forever in the process. Utterly exhausting and completely demoralising waste of time!
In my current relationship, I have reminded myself of this so that I don’t repeat the mistake. Remembering that you have the right to ask for what you need and not to play this self-sacrificing saint of a female in order to win and secure love and attention is so necessary and not always so easy when you’re not used to it.
This is definitely a programme from our childhood. Time to rewrite it, if you haven’t already and just KEEP IT REAL!! Freedom 🙂
@539
So she was the one with the problem just because she hinted to you several times that you were not on her level. Sorry but from reading your comment its not hard to point a finger where the insecurity is coming from. Someone specifying to another that not being on the same level is not a bad thing. From my own previous sheninigan experience with a guy we possibly could have worked out but for one we were looking for two different things( him arm candy; and me a life partner) and second we were not on the same spiritual paths although we both were considered believers. Do I think he was the one with the problem just because we were on different levels? Absolutely not. It’s bias for me to conclude that. Providing an emotional safe enviornment is being able to face and handle real life issues together within the relationship as they happen. That doesn’t give one a free pass to be rotten; afraid; and to keep running. Be a MAN and own up to your own insecurities.
I do not hide from my insecurities nor deny resonsibility for my part.
Her mention of different levels first came from her daughter(21) manipulating her and saying that I wasn’t at her level and I didn’t have a degree. She not only didn’t defend me but she took the daughter’s side. I am not an uneducated man by any means, but to my ex, she saw the materialistic side because of the men she dated. Now there is nothing wrong with dating up the pay scale but she’s gone through multiple big money earners and is still single so is that what she really wants? I don’t know, only higher powers can judge. I own my own home and live by myself, own my car out right and I live comfortably. If it were material, she’d taken that into consideration.
The reason for her commmenting about different levels were stemming from her own insecurities which she later revealed that I was at a higher level than she was. When I asked her why she thought that way, she said that I was more “human” than she was and I was kinder, more compassionate and caring while she thought it was a contest to match me. My insecurities were from not feeling good enough for her and realized that she projected that feeling onto me because she didn’t feel good enough for me. And anytime a partner asks why am I so good to her while she’s crying over a self-induced meltdown and was met with a calm voice instead of matched anger isn’t an insecurity. Because of events like that, I had a better chance of throwing a rock and hitting Mercury than making her happy and being good enough in her eyes so I’ve dealt with my issues, cut contact with her and absolutely agree with her that we aren’t on the same level.
Not that I needed to explain myself but thought I’d provide a better backstory.
539
@awakened,
I think your reaction was to 539 was uncalled for.
When I read his first comment I did not extract that kind of story behind it. Really, we do not need to take every chance to demonize the guys who visit this site. He is not your ex to get angry at.
I really appreciate the fact that a man visits this site, it shows a sincere appreciation for insight and effort rather than labeling a woman here, or women for that matter, for being ‘oversentimental frustrated creatures who don’t get enough attention, seek to get approval and listen to one woman trying to get a profit out of it by pulling a marketing stunt’
Those were my ex’s words.
Complete different attitude than 539.
And again, I appreciate that. He’s coming from a place where he thinks about this kinds of stuff just as much, as it seems, as any of us is.
Awakened, I actually went to remove your comment after it was approved but 539 had already taken the time to respond to you. Please don’t post comments asking anyone to “be a MAN” (or to “be a WOMAN” for that matter) as you’re crossing boundaries, both 539’s and mine with your tone and aspects of this comment, and I’m not even sure what such a statement is supposed to mean. Be respectful, something each person should do irrespective of their sex.
@vhs: This is why it’s dangerous to tell any toxic guy about this site. I’m afraid they are bound to react like that. It’s typical for them to deny all selfish motivations behind their own behavior while claiming NML’s motives were purely selfish.
On the other hand, I think it’s a very brave thing to do for a guy to comment on this site. We’ve all been a bit burned by being fed the idea that AC/EU behavior was “typically male”. I think we all need to get a new idea about what being “male” (or much rather, being human!) means.
I did not tell ‘my guy’ about this site, I cherish it so incredibaly much, even that much, that I ‘screen’ people before telling them about this diamant that ultimately changed my life. Not everybody is ready for it, and when they’re not, they use it to make a mock out of you. He unfortunately found me because I was naive enough to use my own name. (Yes, he thinks looking for me on the interwebs and then insulting me when he does is called ‘love’) Needless to say I’ve changed my commenting name ever since.
VHS,
I think my ex was reading my comments too (while we were dating), and I suspect commented using his real first name with a not so nice comment during a tense time between us. I never asked him outright. It seemed so far fetched and creepy at the same time. So, maybe, maybe not. I’ll never know for sure. He opened my laptop which was on this site with an unfinished comment being written by me. He later surprised me by calling me by my ‘handle’ and it got my wheels turning. I changed my name too. Just in case. Or it could be I am just paranoid. ?
539
I really dislike the talk of people being “at different levels” as though some people are superior to others. I think that in hindsight she thought the better of that ACish comment and tried to explain it away. But you are right, if you make comments like that it shows insecurity because you aren’t accepting of yourself as you are, and other people as they are, but “measuring” and judging as to who is of higher value.
I really like this post. It applies to other parts of my life. I think I have always had a struggle between being “good”(what I perceived as necessary for being liked, loved, acceptable and/or popular) and parts of my “real” self which has boundaries, opinions and a strong sense of integrity and consistency about what I do and say. Some of the most painful parts of my life have been when these parts are in conflict. Right now I am in a difficult work situation which requires me to stand up for certain principles and values both professionally and in terms of the quality of what I do but in doing so I am going to generate a lot of resistance and probably active dislike. Of course I try to express things in a way that is effective and non-confrontational and I “think” I am pretty good about that but sometimes this doesn’t change the reactions and then I feel wounded and isolated. I find these situations really difficult. I know I can’t give up my core principles, values and boundaries but I wish I could stand up for myself without caring so much about other people’s reactions. I see that many men handle this better and in fact I often work better with men because I can be collegial and dissent/debate is more tolerated because it isn’t personalized. Not always but sometimes anyway.
Gina:
“I understand with 100% clarity that I need to pay more attention to the behavior of the men with whom I become involved with. Then ask myself if how they behave/treat me matches MY values–NOT how I can make myself more worthy to them.”
Amen to this! I need to do the same thing:-)
This post reminds me that we all have our own idea what a good bf/gf is. One of my friends gave up her friends activities etc..just to be available for her bf. She couldn’t understand why he didn’t appreciate that. Another friend plays hard to get and unavailable all the time and she thinks that’s the way to be, even though its never worked for her, oh and she advises the rest of us to do the same. I used to try to be the cool gf, no payoff on that one either.
Thank you Natalie for all your insight and help! It is hard not to play the “good girlfriend” in relationships and feel like you have to perform. It actually prevents you from finding a mate that appreciates all sides of you – both good and bad.
I am inspired by your blogging and I’ve decided to create my own blog about self-care for women called The Smart Girl’s Guide to Self-Care. This blog provides insight, exercises, and articles/links intended to improve mental health, strengthen interpersonal relationships and engage in daily self-care. I wanted to share it because I hope BR readers will check it out if they have a chance – y’all are a great, supportive community and I hope you’ll benefit from my first post, “Dealing with Loneliness.”
Brilliant – and well-timed, Natalie, thanks.
For the first time in our entire horrible four-year history, I had a ‘proper row’ with son’s dad last night – where we stood there and shouted at each other, as opposed to me crying and him passive-aggressiving all the way out of the door.
I’ve been ill and tired and bad-tempered all week and after we sorted it out I realised that he was quite right to call me down on the things that I’d said. If anything similar had happened in the past I would’ve been mortified that I’d let the mask slip so far and would’ve probably spent the evening in tears, feeling confused and wondering what it was about and what I could say to get him back ‘on side’ (ha!). This time I just roared and he roared and we got it out of our systems and reached a compromise.
I wouldn’t recommend that anyone handles a situation like mine in the way that I did (it could still be awful and terrible and I’m lucky that it’s not). But it feels like a watershed. I’m not the Martyred Angel with a noble but furrowed brow anymore, he isn’t the archetypal Mixed-Up Rebel and we don’t treat ourselves or the other as a cartoon character.
Last night, he left and I was fine. I knew what had happened and what it was about and it just felt like real life. Not a lot of drama and no hidden dimensions, other than two average adults who are tired and fed up being tired and fed up with each other.
I’m not proud of being a crosspatch and I’m not going to start arguing with him for fun. But it’s nice to be free of the ‘Perfect’ label and I’m not going to miss it. When he was messed-up and EU, I WAS the ‘Perfect Girlfriend’, then I was the ‘Perfect Accidental Pregnancy Handler’ and then I was the ‘Perfect But Unloved Mother Of His Child, Silently Suffering Under The Burden Of Her Woes’. AND I was jolly good at it. What did that get me? It got me years of emotional servitude to a mixed-up, messed-up EU dude who knew that he could mess me about because I wasn’t going to break out of my (very predictable) character role. Well whoop. Never again.
In some ways I’m glad that I made certain choices for son’s sake – and because I think it was right. But I wish I’d been a lot more honest about my feelings (read: been snarkey and shouted more) along the way, instead of trying to be a cartoon character.
Although I wish I hadn’t had to stop mid-rant and blow my nose so often – flamin cold!
Little Star. Thank you. I don’t think I’m making a mistake this time. (I hope-LOL!)
trying to be “good” is dangerously near to trying to be perfect which is dangerously near to feeling responsible for everything (bad). Just to be liked, loved, noticed. Sooo exhausting, and so hard to weed out of myself.It is absolutely crazy how deeply you soak this up as a child and then you play it out because you`ve been trained. The result is I am surrounded by people who have such huge expectations of me that I am buckling under the strain.
For me the stakes of being ‘good’ when I was raised, could not have been higher. I was constantly told that if I was ‘good’ I would get to go home to live with my parents! Of course, I eventually realised this was a complete crock! It had the added effect of subliminally giving me the message that I was not living with my parents because I was somehow bad because nobody told me truth as to why I was unable to live with them! This though, (thankfully) I deduced, could not possibly be true as how ‘bad’ could a 3 yo, the age I was when I was taken away, possibly be exactly? Needless to say although I falied terribly at being ‘good’ anyway, because I was forever standing up against outrageous abuse & bullying (using any means at my disposal, often not the most functional, but all I knew at the time), I completely GAVE UP even trying once I realised I’d been totally lied to. I’ve never bothered trying to please others since. So long as I feel I’ve treated others as I’d like to be treated that’s sufficient for me. (And I now realise as I write why I haven’t suffered with the ppl pleaser thing. ie I seem to have learned early on it’s to no avail). I’ve always said there are advantages to my background. I suspect this might be one of them?
PS I’d never realised this before & always felt a bit ‘different’ when I heard ppl describing the ppl pleaser stuff. Don’t get me wrong. I’m very kind hearted & if I can help someone I can. I’m the sort of person who doesn’t LEND $ but I GIVE it away to help others, when I can afford to (just as an example). I’m not cold hearted by a long shot. Realising WHY I’m not a ppl pleaser just by writing this has really helped me a lot. I learned I’m not quite as hardass as I thought. I just had experiences that shaped me differently psychologically. Thankyou so much for this post Nat. I’ve always felt a tad guilty for NOT being a ppl pleaser! Crazy! Now I know why! It’s made all the difference! 🙂
Yoghurt… you know what I’d with a guy ‘peeved’ that his egg wasn’t cooked to his liking don’t you…?
I will leave this to you devilish imagination! LOL
Dr Phil said some things today that sort of relate to this post. They touched me & were:
“You are giving X the power the decide who you are. At some point you have to take that legacy back & decide no, *I* choose who I am.”
“You have to tell yourself I refuse to be locked in the bars of bitterness & rage for the rest of my life.”
“It’s hard to forgive someone for smashing your foot while they’re still standing on it” (this made me laugh)
Thank you Teachable for sharing with us! Spot on, need to pin this somewhere and use it:)
Each and everyone of us has a responsibility to discover our own identity irrespective and separate from everyone else. We can say oh I gave this and that and he left me for blah blah blah. But unavailable men never truly leave “us” because we weren’t ourselves. If he’s unavailable and we stuck around after red flags, then so were we. And emotionally unavailable people aren’t themselves. They’re what they think they need to be to get what they want. This cuts both ways whether it’s future faking or putting up with future faking in order to get what you want when you’re really boiling/hurting on the inside. The thing is crying over being rejected by unavailable men doesn’t make a lot of sense. How can someone reject you if you were never really you?
Incredible words Jennifer! That’s exactly true. “How can someone reject you if you were never really you?” Ah, thank you! This really made my day.
I really wish I had found this website a long long time ago! But no point in crying over spilled milk. I’ve found you now Natalie and you make a heck of alot of sense. I am very guilty of being the good girlfriend and not wanting to be a ‘bother’. I did it to myself but no more! I am worthy of expressing my needs and emotions. Thank you NML!
This post is great.
I think I felt I had to be perfect as a child, good, so parents would stay together despite being desperately unhappy. We were all in a trap, nothing changed. Being good was about keeping under the radar, not rocking the boat – did so well at school, yet it was not for the love of learning, it was how I could please parents and teachers.
It’s taking a long time to work out what I actually would love to do, and I do keep slipping back into what I CAN do – which led to a career based on other people’s expectation in the past.
Phew. I’ve been like a fruit cake under perfect hardshell frosting, in every sense of that word.
Yes, the post is great and makes mr realize my mistakes though genuine even more. It doesnt help to call my ex names, even call him EU because he was this way with me but went off and committed to a better model of a gf. It doesn’t help to know that I had my chance with him and blew it by being genuinely ‘nice’ and kind. Some posters here are saying they are happy they understand their EU’s now and even convince themselves they don’t miss or regret, well I do. Big reason is that everyone else I meet is just pale compared to him. The one I hate for not figuring how to work it out while he was still with me is me. I AM the loser
Changing
I don’t mean to be unkind but your post made me smile. I have SO OFTEN had these kind of thoughts about myself (although I’ve never really believed I could have done anything to keep him).
But the thing is where does it lead? What do you do now that you can’t have the pretty shiny thing? Take to your bed? Brood about it for the rest of your life, like Miss Havisham? No. Force yourself to go out into the fresh air, meet friends, do things you enjoy, get on withe tasks that need to be done. Eventually you’ll realise that he was never really that great and he doesnt matter to you at all anymore.
And just to add you aren’t a loser but just hurt and sad and disappointed. You will get better.
Well, I just want to mention that lately I´ve discovered that people seem to like me even though I stopped behaving like the flirty ego-boosting approval-seeking person I used to be.
Which is weird.
I don´t act like that anymore simply because I feel I need some time off relationships, so it´s surprising to see that I can still be interesting to others even when I´m not trying to engage.
It is a big improvement to my quality of life.
I actually thought I would behave like I´m doing now (just being myself and doing/saying whatever I feel like) until I felt ready for a relationship again. I had this idea that in order to be liked, you just have to put on an act. Now I´m thinking I´ll just stick to what´s right for me.
Lilia,
I’m at the same place right now.
I’m making new friendships just by being myself. I don’t try to please people the way I used to.
Without being an over-giver, I feel now that there was an imbalance betwwen what I gave and what I received in my past relationship.
Despite the boudaries I tried to establish, they were continually bursed, little by little, until I met his expectations.
I thought at the time it was great to be shown the way to self-discovery, that this was helped me explore a different side of me.
I now sadly realise he wanted me to match the idea of me that he thought I could become. He wanted me to be different than who I really am. And when I stepped up and stopped agreeing to everything and anything, he lost interest.
I am now concerned that I may become too demanding, or that I hold on too dear to my ‘sacred’ boudaries and end up drawing the line too easily…
It’s not easy to find the right balance.
Also, Natalie mentions trying to be what you think the other person needs instead of being authentic and that the “goal posts keep changing.” Oh this is a wonderful way to put it. It’s exactly how I felt. I’d try to be this and that and say this and that. I’d rehearse what charming things I wanted to say to him. Yet it never quite worked. The more I tried the less interested he seemed. The less I tried, meh, he might have lazily threw in a bit more crumbs. The dalliance lasted three months. Had I been myself, it would have lasted all of 3 seconds.
Me too jennifer. I actually *cringes* made a list in my diary of things to talk to him about and “witty” comments to make, so I could read it on the journey on my way to see him. I have NEVER done anything like this before. It really was, as Nat has said before, like I was reauditioning or being re interviewed for my role as GF every time I saw him. That is how I felt about it anyway. I feel so sorry for myself that I put myself through that torture of feeling nothing I could do would be enough.
I´ve also rehearsed conversations! In fact, I had whole scripts in my head about what to say or what attitude to take if he said/did XYZ. Of course, things never happened the way I had foreseen and this always left me feeling terribly insecure. I´m a bit ashamed of myself now. It would´ve been much easier to just be spontaneous and not to worry how I appear to others.
Yes Lilia but you have to see it was a response to them and their behaviour. I am guessing that, like me, you rarely if ever did this with other boyfriends or friends? You might rehearse in your head if you knew you had a particulalry difficult conversation coming up, but for me it was a regular thing. I was so insecure about his feelings for me (after the initial idealisation stage) that I felt I had to be the funniest/witties/most interesting GF on the planet. My friends seem to think I am pretty funny and interesting when I am just being me. I was utterly desparate for his approval, his crumbs. It makes me feel rather nauseous now.
Yes, for me it became a permanent thing too!
You nailed it about acting like that because you were insecure about his feelings, I think it exactly boils down to that. The crazy thing is that whenever I start to wonder if some guy I find cute likes me, I have these flashbacks to the exEUM, and dream about him. It´s no good when you have no clear idea about what´s going on.
@Nat @ 539
I didn’t think my comment came off as insulting. I was just voicing my opinion. I totally respect his comment and any insight any man brings to the this blog. I am just as grateful that any man comes to share their insight cause I always take something from it. Not many men are able to able to share what they have experienced and be truthful. I have been a fan of this blog for couple of years and have never slandered or disrespected anyone. I even went back and read my own comment to 539 and still couldn’t find anything wrong except the very last line about being a MAN and own up. Wasn’t insinuating that you are were Not so my apologies and thank you for sharing. GOD Bless. 🙂
Nobody is saying that you’ve slandered anyone but the line that we both refer to is what is particularly over the line. I couldn’t work out who you were saying had rotten behaviour so not concerned with the remainder of the comment.
I don’t do double standards. I would never allow a man to come here and reply to you or anyone and tell you to “be a woman” so it has to cut both ways. That is it and telling him to “be a man” is what changes the tone of the entire comment. There is no other issue so not sure where this whole slander thing is coming from. If I had spotted the last line originally (and this is what happens when you speed read and recognise people’s names and there has been no prior issue with off topic with you), I wouldn’t have approved it or would have told you that for it to be published, that line would have to come out.
@ NAT
I said to myself oh goodness I am being policed on the blog. I must be having flashbacks and my comment came off offensive. Not me. Sorry. I’ll behave. 🙂
Everything is okay on this end. I’m just thankful for all of the knowledge I was able to absorb from Nat and this site. They really helped me focus my good intentions towards an unhealthy relationship on myself.
I recently had a text conversation with the ex and she’s still on the “not ready” wagon and keeps expressing how she wishes she could be that girlfriend. I never asked her what stopped her and told her it’s cool and I’m in a different place now and a friendship won’t work because the dealings would still be on her terms.
I was completely lost while jumping through hoops for her until I started reading the BR articles and comments. Now, I have a better handle on myself and I’m off the market right now but I’m making progress and I’m happy with that.
539
“The result is I am surrounded by people who have such huge expectations of me that I am buckling under the strain.” Sushi – I really relate to this in my own work life especially but I am beginning to see that it sometimes my own thinking/actions that put me in this situation (I am a slow learner lol). I have a mantra in my head that says “I don’t want to let people down.” I am sure it emanates from my childhood where I took on a lot of emotional responsibility for what happened in my immediate family. I am in that position now in a couple of work and volunteer areas of my life…and struggling with it. What do I want? It is a legitimate question.
People depend on me yes or they SAY they do and that they support my role but experience tells me that THEY are actually looking out for themselves first. (And that may be okay) And while I do believe in values like commitment, collegiality, working together for a cause, caring blah blah blah – in the end I expect it will be holding all the bags and suffering because of it. I would like not to care and be able to say WTF and walk away but I am sensitive and need to understand that I have the right to protect myself. And why is this so difficult for me sometimes? Ouch it hurts to think about this.
Not sure if I am making sense but I am trying to “right the balance” in this. It is not fair that you are being crushed by responsibility and dependence but probably only you (and me too!) can change that.
I think the phrase “I don’t want to let people down” which is true for me – is something very strong in a lot of woman…and it fits with recent posts about our feeling too responsible in terms of how relationships (work, intimate, friends) turn out. I hope this all works out for you. Hugs.
espresso,
thank you for the hugs, much appreciated and hugs back.
“I am sure it emanates from my childhood where I took on a lot of emotional responsibility for what happened in my immediate family.”- absolutely! And people looking out for themselves first is how it is supposed to be and we should have the same attitude and feel entitled to it. I learnt in childhood that there is selfish ( Very bad) and selfless ( to strive for) and that there is nothing in between. And that`s what the balance is you are talking about and yes we do need a self awarness of our needs and the conviction of the fact that we are entitled to that middle, balanced space for ourselves. I struggle with expressing my needs and feelings assertively ( how can you when you don`t really feel entitled to have needs and feelings) but I can`t help feeling overwhelmed to the breaking point so my attempts sometimes come off either as passive agressive communication ( lesson from mum ) or it just looks pretty much like an exploding bomb- while really I just hurt and can`t cope.I did get people trained to think I`m a superhero and they quite like the obliging doormat, often they balk at the change in me, even if I manage the assertive response. I can now manage the work and friendships better and see really positive results, even doing better with family, but that is obviously a minefield since they are the “original source”. I find it hardest with my children, so badly don`t want to screw them up and ultimately I am responsible, and since I`ve been the only parent forever it is just on me. Feels heavy because it is. You know, it`s a good thing I took myself out of a last relationshit, and I sooo know that I can`t get into any romantic ones until this is sorted out in my head. And it will be. For all of us on here, we are on the right track 🙂
Ladies, Victorious, Lilia and Jennifer. Please don’t do this to yourselves anymore. Rehearsing what to say, and trying to be witty and clever. It’s false. If you do get him, he will eventually learn in the long run that you did not present the real YOU. Wouldn’t you rather be able to RELAX allow yourself to just BE. It’s too stressful to put on an act, which you cannot carry on indefinitely. Hugs to you all, and if I’ve misinterpreted anything you all have said I apologize.
Tink, you haven´t misinterpreted anything and you´re right!
I was thinking that some relationship self-help books do more harm than good, at least in my latest case with the exEUM I was completely under the influence of the strategies outlined in books like The Rules or anything based on getting a guy to chase you (there´s a lot about that). Of course, if you behave aloof, don´t demand anything and don´t clarify things you will be the ideal counterpart to an EUM. I discovered the hard way that those games only make you behave like a complete EUW.
I’ve found I sometimes confuse comments that relate to the present and comments that occurred years ago and you’ve wised up. Knowing that I try to preface my comments with, a “Years ago,” or “At one time” because oftentimes I still cannot tell by the end of the comment if she/he is referring to the present or the past. Maybe it’s just a glitch in my ability to understand. I don’t know. But know that my comments are meant to be helpful, nonetheless.
Ha Ha! No offence taken Tinks! Yes, I meant I was doing this towards the end of the relationshit with ex narc, and hating myself for it more and more. I knew it wasn’t normal behaviour but I was so rejected and so desparate for the validation and crumbs……I can promise you that due to that experience, and moreover due to reading BR I will never due that again. I am working on myself and getting a tiny bit more enlightened every day.
Not telling anyone how to write. Ugh! I should have left it alone (smile).
I have been doing my work on being ‘honest and true’. Meaning walking in my truth. Speaking up right then and there. For the longest time, if figured that if I as an adult didnt cross certain lines or say certain things, then other adults would be the same way…NOT. I know as women, especially women of a certain age, we are so desperate to be coupled. So desperate to have a plus 1 for the next wedding invite. To not have relatives and other people look at us sideways because we keep coming to the family functions without a guest. We dont want to be that last of the mohicans when it comes to having a partner/marriage. I totally get that. But us women are SOOOOOO eager to impress so we will be chosen, that we dont even bother to look to see if this man we are tap dancing for is even dating material let alone boyfriend and husband material. Just think about it, if we didnt on some level feel that having a man is the key and symbolic of us being ‘alright’, would we even go through/went through half of the drama with the opposite sex. All we see is that ‘this guy has the key to my alrightness as a woman’ and we pay zero attention to the obvious signals that he is giving us. The signals that say keep going. We get so busy twisting, turning, bending over backwards that we dont even realize that this man is nothing that we want if we are honest. If we would stop tap dancing for one second we will see that the man is wierd, lazy, narcissistic, slacker, unambitious, got too many issues with women, dont like women but uses them, hates women, dont know his ass from his elbows, lives with his momma, sociopathic,have no communication skills, a substance abuser, a ticking time bomb, a mommas boy, unhappy with his life, a pedophile,a womanizer, a peter pan, in love with his bromance, emotionally constipated, more emotional than you, is addicted to drama, addicted to sleazy women, secretly gay, idealizes women who dont want him but mistreat the ones that try to be good to him, he is addicted to newness and an excitement chaser, he is addicted to porn and video games and secretly expect the world and women to perform like a porn and video game, irresponsible, he has slept with so many women that he has no ‘natural affections’ normal and natural things bore him, refuses to take responsiblity for his actions, will do anything to keep being accountable for his actions including gaslight you, will tell a lie about you to your face to keep from having to be accountable. Damn near ALL of the things that we fall out with these guys about are things that we would have known about him if we would have did due dillegence and not lied to ourselves.
What a refreshing, encouraging and hopeful place th is is… the NML blog posts. I’m not sure my response it appropos to this particular article, but I am so uplifted and grateful reading the stories of others, knowing I am not the only woman who struggles with painful, AC relationships.
I left my completely manipulative, AC, boundary- busting emotionally abusive alcholic husband after 20+ years of marriage. Having married rather young, I had missed out on all the 20 something drama. In my early 50’s, apparently I look younger and thus attracted many younger men- inadvertently; joined a “singles’ group at a church, no less and discovered there are some very good reasons that these men never married. I’ve been involved now for almost two years with a man seven years my junior who initially appeared to be everything my husband wasn’t… and now I discover there are many commonalities. The greatest commonality of all, sadly, is that despite his roller-coaster treatment, inability to commit, refusal to meet any of my needs, and being totally self- absorbed and self- centered; as well as the admonitions of friends ( some of whom I have lost along the path of this journey), I cannot seem to let go of him. He knows exactly what to say to me when I try to “break up” and I’ve tried NC but only half- heartedly. Despite knowing ” I deserve better” and I am basically accepting crumbs, I continue on because… I don’t know, it feels comfortable? I don’t want to be alone? ( Hello, it’s Friday night and the AC is out swing dancing, his hobby. He can’t take me with him b.c ” I couldn’t handle it”. And- I LOVE TO DANCE). He keeps his options open and has me as a gf when convenient. It’s all about HIM. Yes, I know I need to just do NC, but when it’ s good- it’s very good. We laugh, talk, entertain one another and he has become so dear to me. Any encouragement one could offer would be appreciated. I want to get ME back again. I was starting to, after I left my husband, and now I’ve slipped back into the old familiar territory.
Blessings to all of you. Continue to persevere.
You can do it Pandora. Start with doing something small for yourself – something you enjoy. Take a walk, join a gym, anything!! Make it a daily habit and then try to add something to it. Try to fill your time – read baggage reclaim to remind you. It takes a little time but it can be done. I am a living proof. Took a while but……
Good luck!
as hard as it is, NC is the only way to go. your AC won’t change, so unless YOU change to be satisfied with getting treated like a doormat, you will not be happy with this man.
furthermore, as long as you are involved with him, you won’t be available to men who do treat you with the care, love and respect you deserve.
Pandora,
Please seek some counseling.
What concerned me most about you post, is that this behavior feels comfortable. It’s time for you to understand why you feel at home when your needs are not being met. This is not good!
Pandora. Try. Really give it all you’ve got, to get this guy out of your system. Block him on your phone(s), first. Then go NC. When I went NC. I didn’t give him any warning. He thought we were still okay even though we both knew it was all going down the drain. But, if you are going to do this (again), you cannot be half-hearted about it. He is not going to believe you mean it especially since you tried before and couldn’t stick to it. He feels he’s got you in his pocket and all he has to do is say the right things or do something nice that you know he’s not sincere about, and you’ll be running back like a little puppy dog wagging it’s tail with tongue hanging out. I don’t think you want that, do you? NC is very difficult. I won’t kid you, but you have to look at what you’re getting now. Do you want to go on months, even years being mistreated? He is NOT GOING TO CHANGE for you or anyone else. He is showing you what he is. Believe it. I’m telling you to block him first because you will have the upper hand when you use the element of surprise. You’ll continue to have the upper hand by continuing STRICT NC. Get busy and involved with other things. Don’t obsess over him and the past. That’s over. You can do it. It takes time and may even be a long time before you’re over him and feel better. But, I’m telling you, it is/will be worth it. Open up your opportunity to meet someone a lot better. Good luck, Tink
Wow…I did so much of this with my last “relationship”… Even with texts to him I would find myself thinking if I text it this way he will realise what a sexy/intelligent/fun person I am and go back to being as crazy about me as when we first met. I have slowly come to realise that he must have got over excited about me when we met, projected things onto me that I wasn’t but over time realised his mistake and that he wasn’t actually all that interested once he got to know me. Also I came across as confident but in reality my abusive ex-husband had really destroyed my confidence and I was secretly very very angry and disappointed with men. Maybe I would have backed off me too given all of that baggage! I blamed him for leading me on though then backing off…except I saw him again recently didn’t have the usual casual sex with him and stuck to my true personality, not thinking bout how I was coming across just leaving his opinion of me as purely up to him…and he was nicer, more connected and warmer. Plus he texted afterwards to say how much he had enjoyed the visit. Food for thought I guess!
Pleasure Little Star. Dr Phil sure does come up with some crackers doesn’t he! LOL 🙂
Selkie, I know what I think about creepy laptop guy, but I’m not just blurting that out would be best in this situation. I wonder if it might be more beneficial for you to re-read what you wrote & elaborate a little more yourself. I’m curious. Do YOU think you were being paranoid? Why? T x
Teachable,
I wonder if its my own paranoia because it seems so wrong, and I have a hard time believing he would be that sneaky ( and to be honest, that he would of wasted his time reading my posts….like I feel self absorbed for thinking it ). But my gut says he read my posts for about two months. It creeps me out that maybe he had a window into my thinking all that time. When I post here, I am completely honest about things….we are anonymous so it feels safe. I posted here about him and my confusion over his mixed message actions, since the relationship was only several months and fairly new. Over xmas, he behaved like an ass, twisted things up that I said and turned them into something I didn’t say then proceeded to be very angry at me and mean over what I thought was a very strange misunderstanding. I came here with the info, with an attitude of confusion and hurt over his behavior. The general mood of the responses back to me was…..opt out, he has problems and I was fighting a losing battle. It was a slow burst of my denial bubble but ( there is that infamous ‘but’) said I thought he was a good guy (with issues, ha!), and thought it warranted a heart to heart with him to make sure I wasn’t being too hard on him. (enter florence the FBG ) The comment that I believe was him came during that thread. The weird thing was that I had expressed to my son BEFORE that thread that I thought this guy might be reading my posts after seeing one when he opened my laptop. Then when the comment came up with his first name during the thread it was either freakish coincidental, mixed with my imagination or it was him lashing out in a sneaky underhanded kind of way. I never saw a comment with that name again. He dumped me about 3 weeks later. So, I really don’t know. It doesn’t matter now I guess, but I changed my name for my own peace of mind. I misjudged him in lots of ways actually, so maybe he did have the potential to be sneaky that way.
Selkie…FWIW, I don’t think you’re being paranoid at all. First, you know he opened your laptop (which is a boundary bust right there); second, he posted something under HIS first name on a thread you were commenting in and then the break up comes mere weeks later?
Ummm, circumstantial evidence, yes. Coincidence? Don’t believe in them. Can you “prove” it? No.
I got all queasy reading this though. And my gut says he did it.
Selkie, I think you bring up a good point. At what point does a person cross the line. I would trust your gut. Oh and flush. I got queasy too. It would send me into never ever, ever, ever if I thought he violated my cyberspace. It is wacky. He can cheat, lie, and be a total scumbag but if he touches my computer, he would live to regret it. It’s weird that my boundary is around what I post on the internet which is, of course, public. I get what you are feeling. Creeped out. Totally. Thank your lucky stars he is gone. My gut says, if you have to consult with your kid, you know the answer.
Tinkerbell, Natashya, Sigrun:
Thank you. Yes, I do have a life; I have kept involved in other things but I need to do more. Mr. Unavailable has been my first priority. As for me, I am his priority when he has a need. I like being needed, so that typically has worked out well for the both of us. When the need ends, so does the attention from him. He reverts back to his selfish ways. Nothing is his fault, of course. Anytime I’ve said anything “controversial” I am “creating drama, wasting time – i.e. we’ve been on the phone for 22 minutes and what have we accomplished? as I am sobbing my heart out- so yes, I acknowledge that he will not change. I also acknowledge that NC is needed in a firm, decisive manner. I am fearful, especially as the Holidays approach, of being alone, but really what am I now, in any tangeable way…. ALONE. Thank you for the encouragement. I pray that today will be the day I can do it, go NC all the way. That is my plan. A good dose of resolve is what I need and I am there, I believe. You all have such wisdom. Tinkerbell, you really did not announce your intentions you simply went NC without warning? That has been the recommendation of my counselor and several friends. It is akin to the ripping off of a limb, it feels but sometimes I guess that is what is needed for true healing to take place. Blessings to you all.Thank you for your responses.
P.
pandora, i’ve been back on the NC wagon (yes, fell off after a month or so) for 6 days. i am actively working on moving on. i did the unsent letter exercise, which was great as well. when i blocked him from all my social media and all lines of communication, i cried my eyes out, but i also realised i truly had no choice. the ex EUM wanted to be friends with me. i tried. i can’t do it. it just hurts too much.
i have been heavy on meditation this week. also, i don’t push away any thoughts of him when they come to mind. when i think of him (and feel it in my stomach), i slowly breathe out, imagine the thought is a balloon, detach myself from the feeling and watch it float away. this exercise is helping me a lot, too.
i don’t want to forget him, or the good (and bad) times we had, i just want the emotion behind it gone.
good luck. you can do it, too.
pandora,
it is indeed akin to the ripping off of a limb, but you’ll survive, and it was a cancerous limb anyway.
After NC with my abusive ex I struggled for months, to the point of walking alone but feeling his presence close to me, even his hand on mine.
I survived, though, and now “I am mine”.
Allison is also right: “It’s time for you to understand why you feel at home when your needs are not being met. This is not good!”. You write you have a counselor, but may be you need to work harder on this. I’m sure you know it already, I always find solace and help reading “Women who love too much”, especially the last chapter, were she describes the way out of the “too much love” behavior.
Please don’t think too long, just go NC and then concentrate on YOU. You are worth it, and much more.
Pandora i also went NC without warning. I felt I had no choice. First time round I emailed him after he sent me a lovely card, thanking him but explaining I was not ready for friendship but that if/when i was, i would contact him and in the meantime he should leave me to heal. Ten days later he decided my time was up. He needed an ego boost so he was calling me up. I fell off the wagon and spent about another month in the “friend zone” before he just disappeared on me for 2 weeks. In that time I realised what a dreadful mistake I had made in allowing him to bully me back into his life, and so I decided I would not respond to any more contact. he has called and texted since but I have not responded. I do not know if he understands why I am NC but really does it matter? he has treated me appallingly and I am ashamed of what a people pleasing doormat I was when I was with him. I am not doing this to punish him, I am doing it as self preservation.
Pandora… He sounds like a totally abusive, sadistic, SOB to me. Going NC is like ripping off a limb??? Um no, NC is like dumping a load of toxic waste and saving your own life.
I know you are caught up in the middle of this this still. Please read as much as you can here and continue to see your counselor. It’s YOUR time to be center stage and healthy and to uncover the reasons you’d even entertain this kind of behavior. That’s what we’re ALL doing here, so I hope you don’t feel I’m criticizing.
I just think you’re giving this guy all of the power and making him so important, when really it’s the other way around.
Wow, yup. Clapping seal, human pretzel, turning myself inside out trying to please that guy… while he gave me lists of all the things that are “wrong” w/ me and that “nothing is impossible in the future” once I “fix” myself. Truly exhausting and for someone like me who is a goal setter/reacher I simply did not quit until I gained his approval. I am a flawed human being but that makes me who I am and I will never again change who I am to please a man.
Pandora. Yes, honey. I went NC leaving him thinking we were okay. We’d had a snit as he was getting ready to leave my apartment. But we both wanted to part in an upbeat manner. But actually I was not feeling upbeat at all. It was the last straw. It was as if everything I’d felt for him suddenly disappeared I could not see him in the same light anymore. (He’d been jerking me around for awhile). So I cheerily said “Goodbye” and next thing he knew I was no longer accessible to him. I did not do it that way to deliberately spite him. I was the best way to do it for ME.
One more thing. I had to accept and FEEL THE PAIN of the break-up before I could begin to recover. Stuffing it down did not work. That may not make sense to you as we’re all telling you to move on, live your life, get busy as hell and forget about him. It’s like you do both at the same time. It’s a little complicated unless you’ve actually experienced it. Keep reading Natalie’s blogs, especially ones that apply to YOU. Read her book!!!
Thank you Tink et. al for the lovely support, although I am sorry to hear of your struggles it is encouraging to me. This weekend, I have been no contact. I’ve kept myself busy with friends and other activities, and yes, I do know I must feel the pain of grieving before I will be able to heal and move on. It may have been here somewhere in Nat’s community, or perhaps in a blog post she wrote about not dating and just working on oneself for a time after a devastating enounter with MR. Unavailable(s) is helpful. Yes, I do see a counselor and she is wonderful, but as I was married to an abuser for a very long time, patterns clearly became establised that I was not aware of on a conscious level. It takes time and superhuman effort to change that, so I am a work in progress. It is SO HELPFUL to be a part of this wonderful group. Wolfgirt- great analogy; it IS a cancerous limb. Yes, I am working hard and will continue to read this blog and all of your experiences. I don’t want to “wear my friends out” talking about this, as it has gone on for so long, but I believe as you all have had similar experiences you understand. I pray today I will continue the NC journey. He did not have warning. He did not contact me, either, and it is MUCH HARDER for me when he contacts me not to pick up the call or return it. I know you said block him, Tink, and I may do that. For now I want to resist and know that I am resisting before I take such an extreme measure. Before all of this progressed to a romance, we were at one time good friends. He has many of the qualities of a friend and perhaps someday- when I am healed and over him- we can be friends. Right now, I am not sure. Thank you all for your transparency and encouragement. God Bless!
P.
Pandora you have said this man is abusive so please do not think you can be friends with him. Please read Nats posts on being friends with an ex, there are a few. Just put “Friends” in the search engine top left. I tried to be friends and got really badly burnt. It was all the same to him, friend, lover, whatever, he just got off on manipulating and hurting me. The only way to make it stop is to take yourself out of harms way forever. I know (really I do) how tempting it is as I fell for it despite reading the relevant posts, but boy did I suffer for it!
Okay, I am *almost* through day 3 of NC. He has not called me, which is unusual, but makes it easier. It makes me think, there must be another woman, already… I know he’s kept his “feelers” out while with me. Anything is possible. After my having spent the entire past three weeks helping him move to his new place, being completely available and him calling me daily- talking about “we” this and “We” that, this entire weekend was spent independently and with no thought of “me”. NC is hard. I am tempted to call, and when I do, I read and reread these posts and articles. Thanks, Victorious, the articles on staying friends with an ex are enlightening. I think not. It’s just so hard to cut someone off with whom you spent so much time and felt so close… but I will persevere.
Selkie
‘My gut says he read my posts for about two mths’
THAT is IT right there. THAT is YOUR OWN VALIDATION & that’s what I was digging for & hoping to find. Now obviously you believed your gut & changed your name, but why I posed the question, & sought your reply, instead of just answering you, is I wondered, where did learning to invalidate yourself come from?
Who did that to you previously in your life because Selkie in her full power would not do that.
You follow?
xx
Teach,
I guess learning it came over time, like dominos fall one by one gathering momentum until there is a pileup. Invalidation was my life long pal, if not from myself, then from a childhood of upside down dysfunction and fending for myself emotionally without the proper tools. I set out in life with all the wrong information. I didn’t know the difference until I woke up after an especially hard fall and found this whole wide world of possibility in front of me. Imagine my surprise. Reprograming my thinking is almost like learning a new language. Thanks for making me think a little deeper.
PS Of COURSE he was reading yr posts… (that’s not even the issue) & yr definately NOT being paranoid btw 🙂
I do it too Selkie. But I want to stop doing it. It doesn’t become me. Just like playing small doesn’t become me. Yet I do it not knowing how to strike a balance & go forth with humily & grace. I am so clumsy. So shoot my mouth offish. But I am trying. It’s all we can do. xxx
As a learning exercise Selkie (hey, we’re all learning here, right? & only if you can be bothered) I’m curious to know might there be a way of re-phrasing your original comment on this issue that still expresses what you wanted to say, without invalidating yourself? I wondered if you did that what the new comment might look like?
(you dont have to share it here btw but just something that might be helpful to try for yourself as an excercise at home) x