Behind many of the problems in dating and dubious relationships is the lack of boundaries and what we communicate about ourselves when we allow people to cross the line. It’s important to be authentic and have the same values and boundaries in all areas of your life. This way you don’t create conflicts within yourself that end up communicating the wrong messages about you.
Boundaries are basically a personal awareness of what you will and won’t accept. It’s knowledge of what you’re uncomfortable with and what detracts from yourself or causes you to live outside of your values that acts as both self-protection and a warning system.
Boundaries teach people how to treat you and what to expect from you. They also impose limits, not just on others but also upon yourself to ensure that you don’t place yourself in dangerous situations or continue to take being treated in a way that detracts from you.
If you imagine that every single one of us on this planet has our own invisible electric fence–these are our boundaries.
Unfortunately, some of us either haven’t turned on the electricity. Or when we experience a boundary-bust, we totally disregard the sounding of the alarm. Some of us may be totally unaware that we actually have this ‘function’ in our personal armour, so have been unaware of the existence and the importance of the fence.
When the fence is on and someone bumps or totally jumps it, your discomfort should register so that the alarm rings. Whether it’s something said or left unsaid, done or not done, you’re, at best, cautious. Moving up the scale, you may be uncomfortable or experiencing pain.
The electric fence ‘going off’ and making the alarm ring is your warning system.
It means that you need to address the situation, proceed with caution, and work out what the boundary-crossing means to you, the relationship, and about the person. It’s vital that you increase security measures.
And whether through actions or verbally, you need to communicate your discomfort and that this cannot happen again and why. In some instances, you may not need to explain. The action in itself doesn’t warrant an explanation as it’s obvious why anyone would be uncomfortable.
Some people have no respect for other people’s boundaries even though they may have many boundaries themselves.
It’s important to remember how human interaction works and how we inadvertently end up communicating what people can and cannot do with or to us:
When someone does something unacceptable, i.e. crosses a boundary, you have the option to either accept or reject the behaviour.
Let’s say that Bob and I are dating and one of my boundaries is that standing me up is unacceptable. When he does stand me up, I can:
a) Not bother with him again. My actions communicate that his behaviour isn’t acceptable. He knows that it’s severe enough that the consequence is that I’ll have nothing further to do with him. Remember, he communicated his disrespect and clearly doesn’t share the same values.
b) Give him One Last Chance. Tell him when we speak and he makes an excuse and apologises, that I’m hurt/angry/whatever. I then accept his apology. I let him know that, in future, if he’s going to be late or cannot make it, he must say so, not leave me hanging. Maybe I also say that if he doesn’t, it’s over. Equally though, the latter is better communicated through actions should he do it again.
c) Make very little noise about it when I do eventually hear from him again. Basically, I accept his behaviour without creating any consequences.
Option A is me knowing my boundaries and what his action means to me and moving on. I don’t do being stood up. I’m not interested in someone who would behave in this way. See ya! Flush!
Option B is me knowing my boundaries but giving one chance. The idea is that repetition of the behaviour means me going for Option A next time.
Option C is me totally disregarding my boundaries. I’m ignoring what him crossing that boundary actually means and effectively opening myself up to further disrespect. I’ve effectively communicated that it’s okay to stand me up as there won’t be any consequences.
By the same token, when someone crosses your boundary and you communicate it, they have their own options too.
Option A is that they accept and respect your boundary. They endeavour not to repeat the same boundary-crossing again if they are given another chance.
Option B is that they appear to accept and respect your boundary. And then they passive-aggressively go behind your back (some may not even bother being sneaky) and attempt to overstep again. They hope they’ll get away with it because you either let it slide or you aren’t looking and listening.
Option C is to reject your drawing of the boundary line and move on. They realise that you are not the type of person that they can operate with their usual boundary-busting ways with. You are no longer of interest as the relationship cannot be on their terms. It’s respecting your boundaries, albeit because they’d prefer not to have to respect you in the relationship.
The reason so many people have little or no boundaries in their relationships is fear of losing the boundary-busting partner. They’d rather hold onto this person and hope they’ll realise what an exception they made on ‘that occasion’ than recognise the fundamental incompatibility in the relationship.
Boundaries are tied to your values.
If someone cannot or will not respect your boundaries, it’s a difference in your fundamental core values. Your relationship cannot work.
As women, we must learn to see the wood for the trees. We have to be careful of doing things with a view to communicating our ‘love’ that gets lost in translation. We’re doing things that feel big to us (making an exception for normally unacceptable behaviour) and then assuming that this act of ‘generosity’ is picked up by the other party. I made an exception for him/her/them. They should realise how much I love them and reciprocate my feelings and generosity. And then we’ll live happily ever after and yada, yada, yada.
You’re really complicating your relationships when you get into this whole ‘making exceptions’ thing. This is especially because whatever you intended your actions to communicate, it’s like a subtle hint that didn’t get picked up. Instead, you’ve communicated an entirely different message.
When you make an exception for someone’s normally unacceptable behaviour, you are normalising bad behaviour. To add insult to injury, they don’t even see it as you ‘making an exception’. Instead, they see this as the norm.
Every single time you accept things that are fundamentally outside of your values and cross your boundaries, you tell that person that, in this relationship, with you, their behaviour is okay and acceptable. This becomes their new normal and the baseline of what they feel they can do and be in the relationship.
They don’t think:
- Ah…that Susan’s so special. She must really love me if she’s prepared to let me back in her bed without so much as a bye nor leave.
- I love Tina so much. I really appreciate her for not refusing my call after I disappeared for a few weeks, then came back, then promised the earth, then disappeared again, then came back.
- Aw… I want to marry Gigi. She loves me without conditions and never sticks to it being over. She also always listens to my excuses, copes with the continued disappointments and is forever steady.
- Or… That’s really nice that Cathy took my call even though I totally reneged on that last date I promised her.
However… they do think:
- I was able to get back into Susan’s bed with little or no explanation. Next time I want to slope off and then come back for a shag, I’m pretty certain she’ll be receptive.
- Right, so the flow of things is that I can disappear, call her up, make some empty promises, put up with some initial faux resistance, and then she’ll give in. When she starts looking for me to deliver on those promises, I’ll just go. Eventually, she’ll see how I roll.
- Gigi certainly loves me a hell of a lot… I know she’ll ALWAYS be there. And then they reward that loyalty by feeling free to do as they please with the certainty of her presence.
- Hmmm, Cathy’s not the woman I thought if she’s still receptive to me in spite of me standing her up. She could be useful for hanging out but I can’t see this going anywhere.
It’s important to realise that as inconceivable as it may sound, especially if you’ve been involved with assclowns and Mr/Miss Unavailables on a habitual basis, relationships can and do exist without boundary violations.
When the alarm bells on the electric fence of your boundaries are ringing, it’s also a sign to listen to yourself.
In my last post,When You Try to Demonstrate Your Love but They Interpret It as a Lack of Self-Love, JJ2 mentioned a common issue–discovering that your partner subscribes to a porn channel [when you’re not into it].
Now a boundary is something that is fundamental to you. You’re aware of unacceptable actions and your values. If you truly don’t feel that you can be in a relationship with someone that subscribes to the Playboy Channel then, it’s time to move on.
Why would you try to impose your values on someone else if you fundamentally don’t believe that you can be in a relationship with someone who subscribes to a porn channel?
Now I know the ‘easy’ route is to try to change them and have them make you the ‘exception’ to their norm. Many of you have already learned though, that if you have an expectation of your partner changing for your relationship to work and cannot accept them, you’re dooming the relationship.
Most guys, most people, don’t need someone they hardly know telling them what they can and cannot subscribe to or watch on their TV. They don’t. It’s already a message of non-acceptance and attempts to change them. This acts as a signal for them to reposition you in their mind. Watch as you tumble down the mental stairs from potential girlfriend/wifey material to someone to pass time with.
Just like when we feel attraction and common ground with someone and then correlate that to the rest of them and assume things about them, guys will take something like you trying to change them over the Playboy Channel and correlate it to the rest of a potential relationship. They will see ‘problems’, not potential.
It’s always good to sanity check why something is a boundary. Would you be with someone who treated you with love, care, trust and respect and subscribed to the Playboy Channel? Or would you be with somebody who doesn’t watch the Playboy Channel but also doesn’t act with love, care, trust, and respect?
Why is your boundary a boundary?
Are there other things you have accepted in your relationships that you shouldn’t have?
Are there other things you’ve turned down partners for that, in hindsight, pale in insignificance when you look at what you have accepted?
Your thoughts?
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Hi NML,
Just curious…I met this guy and he was in hot pursuit on the first, second and third date. When the topic of sex came up I told him I wouldn’t sleep with him if he was sleeping with other people, and that in order to sleep with me he’d had to be sexually exclusive. I don’t mind if he dates other women, but I think having multiple partners is unsafe and a bit degrading to me personally. He agreed, but on the following date we were talking about it again and he said to me “You seem like you can be a bit demanding”. Alarm bells went off in my head because not only did he label me after having only known me a short time, but I was upset that my need for sexual exclusivity was seen as demanding! I am now confused if I did the right thing or not. I am torn – did I assert my boundaries or add unwarranted pressure on a new relationship?
You did the right thing! And him telling you you’re demanding is turning it round and trying to make you feel guilty about it!
So this article is spot on for you – why are you scared of sabotaging this new ‘relationship’ when clearly he doesn’t even see it as a relationship?
If this happened to me, and the guy said that seriously, I would have smiled and very good natured and confidently said ” Yup, that me, demanding.”
I also would be noticing the giant red flag with the word whiner written all over it.
For me there were two problems with normaiizing bad behavior…once I finally saw the light and decided to shine light into the darkness, the AC was furious that I would confront his bad behavior, after I had minimized it for so long. He had no skills to handle this anger except to behave like a complete assclown, thus ensuring that I would not be in his life anymore to call him on it.
Once I found this site, I also realized that by normalizing his poor behavior I was actually treating myself very badly, and I had trained myself to make his bad behavior acceptable and normal for me.
The biggest danger in doing that was the conflict I lived with, between my core values, and the values I was ” trying out” by trying to be so nice and understanding with him, the most difficult person I have ever known.
So, the absolute worst effect of all this was I trained myself to accept poor treatment of me. I sunk into a state of self abuse that I have never been in before.
It has not been easy to let go of the ramifications of self abuse that I developed in dealing with the AC, but I do see progress, though its slower than I’d like.
I also find I now have heightened sensitivity in noticing unacceptable beahvior with others as well as newfound skills of cutting off this behavior at the pass. I am working to furthur develop these skills using humor, wisdom, grace and compassion, since I think this is how difficulty is best handled.
That which does not kill us can make us stronger if we use the right muscles.
Aphrogirl–
Did he ensure that you would not be in his life anymore b/c YOU decided this (in other words, you, and you solely, were responsibile for deciding “enough is enough, NC from now on!”), or b/c he did (b/c he NC’d you after his AC behavior)?
I just ran into the AC who I once knew, you had the same effect on me that yours did, especially as you describe above, for the first time when his wife was not present. Could you believe that HE expected ME to speak to him first?
I will, however, say that she was one who always “cut him off at the pass” while I was the class act, like you.
First he tried to step back in like nothing had happened but I said hell no, and I was firm.
I gave him a clear choice, get out of my life and stay out or deal with the worst of his behavior with me, with a third party, with clear intent to work out the relationship sabotage. I knew he was very resistant to change, and still the options were made very clear..work to understand or NC. He chose NC. It was hard for me to believe that was his choice, but I had to learn to respect that choice.
The odd behaviors we experience are all about their fragile egos. When confronted, these guys often make up a story, that they are the victim and you are the bad guy, its black and white for them. This works for them at a superficial level, makes them feel OK about their assinine behavior cause…it’s all your fault !
I don’t care what he says/ does or what others think of him. He knows he is an AC, and his odd behavior is just silly ego bravado.
Aphrogirl–
Yep, exactly: the Fragile Ego–do I know about that! And not just from the AC, but also from so many others (men and women) before (and after) him!
And, again, yep, exactly: putting you in a position where YOU are blamed–by them and by your own self–for how they act/behave/react.
You knew your AC better than I knew mine. I just walked. I couldn’t do otherwise, for many reasons. I like how you handled yours! I wish I could have done the same. I would have felt more power, that I wasn’t silenced about it all. Also, like you, at the time that I left, I couldn’t believe that he was O.K. with me walking! Of course, he created a situation where I WOULDN’T want to talk to him when he wanted to talk to me, and his not putting forth an effort after his/this initial effort meant that I would have to get a hold of HIM to get to hear what he would have to say! Of course: MY fault for not calling him back then; right?
No regrest here. But this was the first time, ever, in my life where I felt I had NO control and was silenced. It was soooo unfair. And the unfairness (the injustice) of it all continues to this day! I have to sit and THINK ABOUT telling my husband–who the AC knows and who the AC just blew off this past weekend—to blow off (ignore) all of these jerks from now on!
See, I lose, either way! STILL and AGAIN.
We all have egos, you know.
NO! This is what NML is talking about when she is discussing boundaries. YOU value exclusivity in sexual relations with a man. YOU think it is important and YOU feel it would be degrading to YOU if the man you were exclusive with sexually was sexing other women while with YOU. This is YOUR boundary and it is important to YOU. If he cannot respect that then that’s his problem.
Also why are you both discussing sex so early on? It appears you both have only been on three dates? I find that men who like to engage in sex talk in the first couple of dates is trying to find out whether they can relegate you to fu*k buddy status or will they have to actually put in time, energy and effort to be with you. I don’t enage in sex talk with men whom I’ve just met…and I am weary of men who feel the need to do so when they first meet me. Your guy maybe be different, but given that he balked at being exclusive sexually with you, I think he’s a douche and you should not feel bad that you stated your DEMAND… it is a demand, because something called HIV exists which can KILL you so too bad if he doesn’t like it…he can step b/c he obviously does not share or see your value. YOU have the right to make demands in your relationships and to expect that they be met. Because make no mistake HE has his own expectations and one of them is that he should be able to screw who ever he wants to while he’s screwing you. NOT a good look. Move on, there are more men out there who will respect and share your values.
i’d ask why you want to be sexually active with someone who’s dating other ppl
Lana, Lana, Lana, Lana! Remember when I was saying about alarm bells should be ringing? Yours should be going berserk right now. To answer your main question – yes you did assert your boundary albeit a half hearted one and no you did not add unwarranted pressure on a new relationship – you requested something that is basic – if he feels pressured because he’s not free to run around and bang several people at the same time, he’s not worth the time of day. You’re not being demanding but this guy does think that a woman who requests sexual exclusivity *is* demanding which is a major red flag.
However, equally, you need to address your own boundary stating and your beliefs – why do you think it’s ok to be sexually exclusive but he’s free to date other people? This is not a situation you can try to be the ‘queen’ at – by this I mean you are creating a situation where you’re effectively trying to have a seat at the head of the table with a special status. Around the table are all the other people he’s dating but you are the chosen one he sleeps with. If you want someone to be sexually exclusive, you should be exclusive. Either that, or if you are ok with them dating other people, until you are exclusive, you should be not sexually intimate with this man. Anything else and you communicate the wrong messages about yourself. When you assert a boundary and it is challenged, mocked, and disregarded, it is a sign to move on.
please try not to beat yourself up. i believe your intuition, your inner guide gave you the directive to lay down the law. I believe you did the right thing. as women we get attached to the men we are intimate with that it becomes impossible to think clearly outside of loving this person.
i believe you did and said the right thing, i think he will show his true colors in time but maybe some space for him and if you lose him, he is not the one.
@Judy, confused at your reply (???) Lana went on just a couple of dates. Is even talking about ‘love’ applicable to her situation?
Sometimes we women get attached so instantly to a bit of attention (a date) and our own mental fantasies of what we interpret it means/or what we want it to mean and we attach ourselves to what is essentially nothing but an exploratary couple of nights out with some dude!
You mentioned about him showing his own true colours ‘in time’ – don’t you think based upon what Lana revealed that he was CLEARLY showing his true colours already? (???)
Give him space for what exactly? What did he actually need space for? If he felt hemmed in at that BASIC situation, isn’t that a red flag in itself? I would give him all the space he wanted PERMANENTLY.
Why do we always feel that we have to bend over backwards (injuring ourselves in the process) for some jerk who has been rude and completely disrespectful to us but we try to give them the benefit of the doubt and accommodate them further? For them to repeat the insult and injure us further?
@Lana….. You are worth so much better than him. Don’t ever second guess yourself! What NML wrote was absolutely sound advice (as usual!). Be CONFIDENT in your own feelings. If you don’t feel comfortable, there is a reason for it. Just because some jerk said that you are ‘demanding’ doesn’t mean that you are. So never second guess yourself (that is the thin edge of a slippery slope doing that).
Trust in yourself. If you feel those are your values and boundaries, it doesn’t matter what someone else says. You have to learn to be confident enough to stand by and honour what you feel strongly about and not be instantly swayed by someone else’s voice.
People that are EASILY swayed by someone else NEVER ever feel in control of anything. They are ALWAYS on emotional rollercoasters, constantly questioning and analysing what anyone said and what everything means, constantly being affected by what someone has told them….. it’s horrible for women to feel like that. That is not and never will be peace or happiness.
Whereas if you consider what you ‘feel’ and go with it and stand by it, there is confidence, peace of mind and POWER in that. ‘These are my values and this is my boundary. Either you share it and respect or you don’t. If you don’t….. Oh well. That CLEARLY indicates to ME that you are not for me. I am clear that I don’t need to waste my time further (in inevitable conflict). That is EMPOWERING for me to be so clear about what I need and what edifies me. I don’t need to take on board your views as it has been PROVEN that we are not in sync where it matters so why on earth should what you say matter to me anyway!?’
@ Kissie, I couldn’t agree more with EVERY word that you wrote!
@Lana.
Huge red flag. The guy has already tried to make you feel less than simply because you have made it clear you want something exclusive. It’s exactly what NML is talking about in this post. You told him a core value and he basically told you you are wrong for having it. I’d walk if I was you and be thankfull he started showing his true colours early in the peice. You can move on without emotional the emotional ties u might of had if things went further. The guy has basically said I disagree with you which is fine. At this point you make a choice. But this guy had to add the insulting remark which tells me he ain’t a good catch and you should take off. You didn’t do anything wrong.
@Lana
am now confused if I did the right thing or not. I am torn – did I assert my boundaries or add unwarranted pressure on a new relationship.
I was thinking a bit more about what you said above. This is where things can get tricky I think. We second guess ourselves thinking “maybe he misunderstood me, maybe I came across to abrupt, perhaps I should not be speaking about this now, am I demanding? I don’t want to come across as cold, mean and demanding, maybe it’s me” that’s the sort of crap that would have gone through my head a few years back. This is where we can come unstuck.
If he had said in the intial conversation ” thanks for being open, that doesn’t work for me as I like to sleep around” I’m sure you say bummer! But move on. U might be a bit sooky as you wanted to get to know him but you move on pretty quickly. But what this guy chose to do was make you feel bad about your lifestyle choice. Which is manipulating and said to cause you to question yourself which has created a bit of confusion for you. Don’t look at how he is trying to make you feel look at the answer without the bullsh*t he placed on top. The answer is no, he doesn’t agree with you. This seems to be the type of guy we give the ” on this occassion I’ll let the rude comment slide” and it comes back to bite you in the butt later on. At that point you’ll think back to his 1st rude comment and realise it was the 1st of many red flags.
I might sound a bit hardcore but my instincts are usually spot on only in the past I didn’t want to believe them. What’s you instincts saying?
Take care.
Great points. And I think your spot on about the conversation going on in our head when someone questions our stance. The big thing I’m learning is that I’m the one emotionally tied to my boundary and if I break it (or allow it to be broken), I’m the only one who suffers. I am completely “faithful” to me! I know what hurts me. The more I practice self-care, self-love or whatever you want to call it…..the more free I am to love others because I’m not afraid of my decisions. I know that I will always try to do what’s right by me.
I love hearing all the healthy feed-back because I know that a few of us has been on here for awhile. Just goes to prove that NML rocks =) The advise does work.
@ac free – i completely agree with you on this! I’m finally getting out of a 2 year relationship with a man who created all of my boundaries for me. Naturally, there were only one or two left by the time things finally ended (badly) as he had lied to me twice about being with other women after begging me to take him back. Cheating was the one thing i swore i wouldn’t tolerate, but he even justified that and i took him back but ultimately got so angry because he continued to lie to me, so i lashed out at him. It has been so hard to come to terms with the end of the relationship because I keep thinking I should have just accepted his behavior because I don’t have any set boundaries anymore. I used to be strong and independent and have completely lost my self respect since being with him. It’s my fault for putting up with it and it’s going to be hard to get it all back, but hopefully I will some day, and at the very least, i will make sure i have boundaries for my next relationship! Good luck to all of you!!
Loved that AC Free (like the name too! 🙂 )….. ‘I am completely faithful to me’.
It is appropriate because what we don’t realise until AFTER the fact, is that most of the time we ‘abandon’ ourselves’ and ‘betray ourselves…. over and over again for someone who disrespects us and would never in a lifetime sacrifice on any level or make us a priority. Yet, we are there betraying ourselves and being ‘faithful’ to someone that is/has essentially abused us and we have allowed ourselves to be abused and without realising it, we are punishing ourselves.
‘Being faithful to ourselves’ is a wonderful boundary to implement.
NML,
A slave has no boundaries. A slave, whether sex slave, field worker, domestic, or other variant, is not permitted to own or display any attitudes or choices about ethics, morals, or preferences. Slaves, by their nature, are never considered to be “whole” or competent people.
On the other hand, citizenship is an expression of honor and responsibility. Honor, ethics, morals, and civilized social behavior are very much boundaries that most of us should recognize and encourage in ourselves and others. The flip side of this is that, as citizens, we should be actively avoiding people that denigrate or disrespect the virtues, or our expression of those virtues. By choosing to live by our boundaries – to strive to be virtuous in our actions – and by choosing to associate, where possible, with virtuous people, we encourage ourselves and others in growth.
Setting boundaries isn’t just a dating tactic, boundaries are fundamental definitions of who we are and of how we meet our responsibilities.
Another way to consider this, when confronted with a boundary issue – do you dare keep this person, and his expressions of disrespect and disregard, around your family, your friends, and possible children? Will keeping this guy around make you, and those you care about, better people?
One comment on the “stood up” boundary, NML. It seems to me there is a modified approach you left out. You could determine that his standing you up was a potential deal breaker, unless his explanation for the lack of communication (no warning) and not showing up is truly a reasonable choice, and not just an excuse. That is – go entirely passive. Assume that the broken date was the end of the relationship – and his explanation has to pass muster to start over – you don’t contact him, you don’t look for “closure”, you don’t explain about boundaries. You just accept that things didn’t work out, and you are already half way to moving on. Naturally, this doesn’t apply after sharing sheets, after moving in, after protestations of “forever after”, etc. As a minimum, you don’t waste energy with “what if”, “what did I do”, “when can I call/text/send another heartfelt poem to his mother”.
I just ended something with someone who I had dated for a short time twice.
The first time, after our third date, he disappeared for 10 days, and then came back with a BS text. Boundary 1 violated – consistent contact and demonstrating that the person is into me. Instead of calling him out, I waited 2 days to respond, hoping he would step up. Then he called and did not leave a message another 10 days later. I did not call him back. Then at New Years, he barely acknowledged me at a party after I smiled and waved. Boundary 2 violated – common courtesy and being kind to people who you date.
Flash forward three months later. I see him at a party, he decides he is interested again and starts contacting me. I agree to go on a date after he comes on strong.
Shame on me, my ego gets the best of me, and I think – oh he really likes me this time, I will see how he behaves. What I should have done is to clear the air, and ask exactly what had happened last time, and how this would be different.
He comes on super strong for date 2. Then on the date, he has his arm around me for an hour, when he is not a touchy person, and then he does not try to kiss me at the end of the night. Which felt like crap, but I make an excuse that he was tired. Boundary violated 4 – consistent behavior.
Then he contacts me by text, he stays in contact, but he is clearly backing off. Boundary 5 violated – relationships need to grow, and not have backing up when we get closer. Boundary 6 violated – not particularly interested in anything I have going on in my life, or paying attention.
I get back from vacation that he had forgotten about – he asks me out for date three. On the date, he does not touch me, but we have a sleep over, he seems totally into me that day, he wishes me a happy b-day by text, does not ask to see me. I make the mistake of texting him several days later thinking, “oh maybe he needs encouragement” He responds super favorably, but I feel icky. The truth is that boundary 6 has been violated – consistent contact and showing he is interested in me. I still say nothing and don’t ask what is going on.
He calls me the following week and asks me to help him find art for his place. When I go over on Sat, he does not seem very happy to see me. He does not really engage. We cook dinner, but he does not touch me at all until it is time to go to bed. We have some sexual issues and he comments on my form, which I have never had any complaints on. In the morning, he insinuates that I have overstayed my welcome in a snarky comment. He had turned on a soccer game at 9:00 am, when it was over at 11, before the players had left the field, I said I was leaving. His response is – I thought you were going to lay there all day. What was I supposed to do, leave in the middle of the game? Same boundaries as before violated, and now he is being mean.
I finally stand up for myself. I sit him down and say that I have been enjoying getting to know him better, but there seems like a disconnect. I ask him how he thinks things are going. He says he enjoys my company, but this won’t get serious. I thank him for his honesty, and I say I am not interested in anything that has no potential. I say in my perspective I do not understand why he came on so strong. This is our second time around, and both times he came on strong and then slowly backed away. I say that I want to be with someone who is clearly into me, and that I would need more attention than he would be willing to provide. This is all my truth.
He asks meekly if we can be friends, which I know is to absolve himself of feeling like an ass, I do not say yes, nor do I say no. He then says he does not want it to be awkward (a reference to New Years) and I say, it never was awkward. Awkward kiss and hug and i leave.
Part of me hopes he misses me, part of me hopes he was shocked, but most like I just did the heavy lifting for him, but at least, I leave, and shut the door.
I am to blame, I let him do this, and I had never asked the questions. My boundaries were violated, and I did nothing. I feel sad, but relieved we are done.
I actually think that this was a good experience to go through, to learn from. You noticed what you were doing, and what someone else was doing, in relationship. You watched, you waited, you confronted and then you acted. You filed a learned response to ‘ danger’ in your brain, and next time your reaction time will probably be a lot quicker !
I think experience and paying attention is how we figure out what we want in life. Also, it was really wise to note the snarkiness. A friend I know who married a tempermental artiste type, and decades later has ended up pretty miserable with an even snarkier old man.
Challenge and frustration is an inevitable part of life and ill tempered behavior says a lot about a lack of emotionally maturity. That same unpleasant behavior also shows how unawares and insensitive a person is to the impact their behavior has on others. You were a lot wiser than me by recognizing this relatively quickly, good for you.
oh, and there was a concert he invited me to, and never followed up on. That was the hook he used to get me to go out with him. I never ask about it. Boundary broken – following up on promises.
i would like to report that i was in a booty call relationship with a much younger man, i am 50 but look much younger. of course i pulled my hair out and “worked through” this thing for several months and 6 visits.
after all kinds of work and effort and breaking off with this guy plus READING THIS WEBSITE and gleaning the great wisdom of fabulous Natalie (Thank You), I am happy to report I am GRATEFUL I had this last and final difficult and sad experience with mr. wrong because i witnessed Conscious Contrast, what I DO NOT WANT and will not ever settle for ever again, I really know my Man is out there and I know what I want. In the meantime I am and will continue to have a love affair with myself and my work. Good luck everyone and take the best of care of yourself, you are so worth it!!!! There are many available good men out there so if something isn’t right – back off and take care of yourself.
Exactly what happened to me! Good for you!! Happy for you!
Thanks for all the advice, I appreciate the support!
Last night I spoke with him again and he agreed to date me exclusively so we will see how it goes. I’m not sure if I want a serious relationship with him or not because I don’t know him well enough yet. The only reason I requested sexual exclusivity is because I’m afraid of catching an STD, not because I’m trying to manipulate him into a committment or want to be special. I think if two people really want to be together it will just happen naturally. Saying this may get me into trouble but I don’t really believe when you have sex with someone matters -if a guy wants to be with you and is looking for a relationship he will. If over time I sense any game playing on his part then I’ll end it.
I’m new to this whole boundry setting so it’s trial and error. As long as I learn from my mistakes then I need to be forgiving of myself when I make them:)
Well that’s great and if you’ve gone from little or no boundaries to some boundaries, it’s a major shift. Well done for sticking to your guns – it’s confidence building albeit daunting but you will weed out people who mean you no good. I appreciate that you don’t want to get a STD and I’m glad you asked for sexual exclusivity but unfortunately when someone is free to date other people as well, it’s a bit like placing them beside low hanging fruit and then asking them not to pick the fruit.
Here in the UK (I don’t know where you’re based) but we’re not so much into multiple dating. We take a chance, date exclusively and if it works out it works out and if it doesn’t, well you move on. You don’t know how things are going to go, sexually exclusive or not, but you set the wrong tone by not being exclusive but still sleeping together. It’s messy. You’re not committing to marriage or a serious relationship – you’re saying date and sleep together exclusively, if things change, move on. Good luck and well done!
Lana, sweetie… I understand that you’re trying to be more assertive and it’s hard…trust me I know it’s something i’ve been working on all my 36 years on this planet so it’s a journey. But you have to THINK. you have to be able to discern and use judgment. You may think it’s good that he “agreed” to be sexually exclusive, but if he balked at it originally and he made you feel bad that you had the temerity to even ask for it, aren’t you a little bit curious why the change of heart and why so quickly? You even mentioned in your post the you don’t know him very well and not sure whether you want a serious relationship with him. Ask yourself why you feel that way. It might be because of his prior actions when you did assert yourself. Hwo sure are your that you can trust him to date other women, but not have sex with them? how does that benefit you in any way? are you also agreing to date other men, but only have sex with him? You have the right to set the parameters of your relationship, I respect that but keep in mind that AC and EUMs are predators, they are emotionally disconnected from themsleves and other people, unempathetic, selfish and manipulative. They will tell you what you want to hear if they think it will get them what they want. I hope I am wrong and he’s a really great guy to you. I’m always open to being proved wrong and I’m mature enough to admit that I was wrong 🙂 Be careful, sweetie and Good luck!
Well said also Kissie. I should add Lana and that’s not because I want to doubt his intentions but more as a word of caution – make sure he hasn’t gone for option B
Totally agree with you @Kissie, on every point raised.
@Lana, tread carefully with this man. If he thought you were being demanding because you stated that you were looking for sexual exclusivity, he obviously didn’t feel the same. He showed you apart of himself right there. Some guys will tell you what you want to hear if they realise it will get them what they want with little aggro attached.
Also, what I found rather worrying Lana was that on some level you felt you had to justify that wanting sexual fidelity didn’t mean that you wanted to manipulate him into ‘commitment’. Why should wanting sexual fidelity be equated or thought of in the same breathe as being ‘manipulative’? And sexual fidelity IS a form of ‘commitment’ and what is wrong with expecting commitment? Why shouldn’t you want to be ‘special’ when you are with a guy? What is wrong with that? Is that what good/healthy relationships are all about?
Lana think about what you said, ‘not because I’m trying to manipulate him into a committment or want to be special.’
It comes across as if you are afraid and scared of requiring even the basics from someone in case you put ‘pressure’ on THEM and they will leave.
If this is the case then you are leaving the situaiton so ‘fluid’ and undefined ie without boundaries, to accommodate the other person’s whims and caprices. The thing is, they will never thank you for it and will take advantage of that lack of boundaries!
I wish you Good Luck with this new guy. Remember, just listen to your gut in all situations. Don’t analyse or question it at all…. just act on it. It will always be right.
Totally agree with you @Kissie, on every point raised.
@Lana, tread carefully with this man. If he thought you were being demanding because you stated that you were looking for sexual exclusivity, he obviously didn’t feel the same. He showed you apart of himself right there. Some guys will tell you what you want to hear if they realise it will get them what they want with little aggro attached.
Also, what I found rather worrying Lana was that on some level you felt you had to justify that wanting sexual fidelity didn’t mean that you wanted to manipulate him into ‘commitment’. Why should wanting sexual fidelity be equated or thought of in the same breathe as being ‘manipulative’? And sexual fidelity IS a form of ‘commitment’ and what is wrong with expecting commitment? Why shouldn’t you want to be ‘special’ when you are with a guy? What is wrong with that? Is that what good/healthy relationships are all about?
Lana think about what you said, ‘not because I’m trying to manipulate him into a committment or want to be special.’ You should want to be special to that guy. Otherwise what is the point? To be with someone who doesn’t make you feel special?
It comes across as if you are afraid and scared of requiring even the basics from someone in case you put ‘pressure’ on THEM and they will leave.
If this is the case then you are leaving the situaiton so ‘fluid’ and undefined ie without boundaries, to accommodate the other person’s whims and caprices. The thing is, they will never thank you for it and will take advantage of that lack of boundaries!
I wish you Good Luck with this new guy. Remember, just listen to your gut in all situations. Don’t analyse or question it at all…. just act on it. It will always be right.
Hope it works out great!
I live in Canada, and I 100% agree with you NML – I don’t like to multi-date but it is VERY common here, almost expected. If you tell a guy you want to date him exclusively to see how things go he immediatly equates that with “relationship”. I have been on three dates with this guy and in my mind I’m thinking “If you still want to date other women then you either don’t know what you want or you simply don’t want me”. Dating multiple partners allows people to keep their options open, but if you meet someone you’re really into, then why would you feel the need to keep your options open? This is where things get tricky for women, because while the man wants to multi-date, the woman wants to be exclusive which puts her in the position of trying to “convince” him to “pick her”, which I find degrading. So perhaps you’re right with what you said earlier, maybe it was a half a** attempt at boundaries. At the end of the day women really want someone who says “yes, I really do want to get to know you better and see where this goes” and actually be as excited about it as you are.
Yes, they seem to have that multi-date situation in the US too! I didn’t know it was the same in Canada (although it is no complete surprise). People apparently agonise over the ‘exclusivity’ conversation and whether or not it is going to happen.
I am from the UK like NML and I am so incredibly glad we don’t have that way of dating in our culture. We go on one or two dates and if all has gone well then the guy declares his intentions and asks you to be his girlfriend straight off. No beating about the bush. If he doesn’t, we never see each other again or we remain just mates but we ‘move on’ – generally.
That multi-date situation must make dating so much more harder in terms of commitment and knowing where you stand.
I hear you Lana and it makes so much more sense now that I know what you are contending with and the ‘culture’ on the dating scene where you are.
You said, ‘At the end of the day women really want someone who says “yes, I really do want to get to know you better and see where this goes” and actually be as excited about it as you are.’
Yes, couldn’t agree more. We have more or less that situation over here. We take the risk immediately in terms of a ‘relationship’ and see whether it works out or not.
However, even that over here depends on a woman’s initial boundaries. We still get booty call situations that get all messy ultimately because the woman HOPED he would ask her to be his girlfriend after she had got all intimate, or situations where the man ‘hinted’ loosely that they would make a great ‘team’ but never actually took it any further to asking the woman to be his girlfriend outright. Then you get situations where the woman isn’t sure what she is to him but is hoping she is his girlfriend meanwhile the man denies it emphatically! Stating that she was just a ‘squeeze’ and nothing more!
My AC told me to my face that he loved that I had no boundaries. I asked what he meant and he said that he just meant I was up for anything and easy going. Translation: I can walk all over you. He did and I let him which only reinforced his treatment of me. I’m not a dumb girl I knew what he was doing but I accepted it because I couldn’t bare the idea of being alone. The thing I can’t wrap my mind around is WHO TREATS PEOPLE THIS WAY??? It’s just so foreign to me to be malicous and direspectful of others. Can’t waste my time on the ‘why’ I suppose. Life’s too short!
It is that age old saying: ‘WE TEACH people how to treat us’
Momzilla, it is interesting that your AC felt really ‘comfortable’ to tell you that he loved that you had no boundaries. Had it been another person, their harsh reaction would have guaranteed that they kept that thought to themselves.
You are asking the question, ‘Who treats people like that?’
Really, you should turn the question around and ask, ‘How could I treat myself like that by allowing someone to treat me like that?’.
His treatment of you only MIRRORS exactly how you ALLOW yourself to be treated.
And he would have been testing those boundaries to see where they were and was probably quite amazed at the fact that there were very little in place and what he was able to get away with.
The amount that we disrespect ourselves is always equal to the amount and level we allow others to disrespect us.
The amount that we hoinour ourselves is always equal to the amount and level that we allow others to honour us.
momzilla i know why you are asking the question and i’ve asked it many times of ‘men’ i have wasted some time with. i got so caught up and indignant about the ‘why wouldn’t he value me?’ ‘what kind of person behaves like this?’ stuff i almost went crazy. nml has said in past posts which i totally agree with, that we need to focus on the fact that it IS happening, not why, and take action to stop it. the why is probably much simpler than we could ever think – because he can. because you’ve let it happen once, twice and indefinitely. so much so that he knows your tune before you even play it and if he’s lazy, disrespectful and not interested in a relationship of course he’s going to take the free ride. integrity isn’t in surplus and that’s why it’s valued. and you know, a real man doesn’t want a woman who lets herself be treated like pathetic garbage. i tell myself this now, as a reminder of what i deserve.
he wants a woman who knows herself and loves herself. think about how we as women find kindness, confidence, values and peace in a man sooo sexy. i think it’s the same for them.
Yep!….
I’ve read some of your articles and this one about boundaries. I am unable to grasp your opinion on setting extreme consequences for his actions. Isn’t it important to communicate in a relationship? To have an understanding for each other?
In extreme cases and only then I am able to see its use, however most relationships aren’t governed by extreme scenarios which require setting “Do or die” boundaries (dont take it literally). If a partner simply sets rules or as you put it “boundaries” in a relationship which aren’t considered by the individual as extreme (eg. him or her cheating), then shouldn’t it be more important to talk about it and if he cares for you, vice versa, then both parties want to make it work. This will require sacrifices being made on both ends. A balancing act where the needs of both have to be met (clear distinction between “need” and “want”).
If you simply say do this or you can leave, meet these requirements or be gone you will find yourself going down a one way street. Knowing whether s/he cares is fundamentally important for all relationships and when you know s/he does then that is something to build on. And his or her imperfections is something which requires communication and should be worked on. If both have tried and great changes didn’t happen then… do you love or like him / her the way they are so both of you are willing to cope…
Furthermore, I can see why a lot of women like the idea of taking control and telling a guy off, letting him know that your feelings are important, therefore “respect our boundaries”. But wouldn’t it be more empowering if you get a realtionship to work. I mean really work … Therefore, remove the problem before it happens.
talk
know what you want what he wants,
what you need what he needs
@mE – last scentence. 100% agreed
@Momzilla – sorry to hear that. do you always have to be with someone? can’t you find confidence and happiness being alone? if you can than looking for someone who suits you can be a lot more fun and you’ll have the confidence to say no and continue dating guys. maybe take your time when looking for someone. too many girls in relationships and they arent totally happy. one girl i know and we are good friends, she would hand out her business card to guys if she found them charming. shed say “give me a call some time”. she would date a few guys not all at once, but at different time periods without sleeping with them and the one shed really liked shed date more often and eventually they would have “hooked up”.
@Lana – multi dating – im all for it, however some guys do frown on it if they find out that you’ve been seeing other guys. most guys i know are like that because imo they have a over protective instinct. best not to tell them, but then again its better to be honest? maybe one date at a time will do ; ) start and finish.
some really interesting comments
correction – i meant him or her cheating as an extreme example
The lesson of boundaries was one of the most valuable I had to learn. I am embarrassed to say that, at age 45, I had none. I just accepted whatever behaviour the AC gave and, if upset, would grumble a bit, get no response and then let it lay. The biggest boundaries he crossed – refusing to apologize when I made it clear that he had hurt me with what he said or did and being late (more than 1 hour, sometimes twice in one day). Because I accepted these behaviours, his attitude towards me changed from respectful and attentive to dismissive and indifferent. However, I don’t feel that my not having boundaries made him act this way, he simply took advantage of it. He had to have been a jerk to begin with, otherwise the boundaries never would have been crossed. I may not have kicked him to the kerb fast enough, but I think it takes two. I have begun identifying my boundary issues. Some are easy – no cheating, no seeing other women, no disrespect, no abuse of any kind. Others are harder to know – like being late, or using text or email too much. I don’t need a man to pay for everything or treat me like I am fragile or precious but I now demand a level of respect and courtesy that I have never asked for (much less expected) in previous relationships. If I don’t get it, I am willing to walk away. The hardest part is with some assclowns, the “golden beginning” can go on for a bit, when they are stll trying to win you and are on their best behaviour. It is possible to waste weeks or months on someone who will change his tune once he gets comfortable. However, I now trust me and my gut enough to tell when someone is actually in a relationship, with both feet as Natalie is fond of saying, and when someone is just wasting my time. Thank you for this most valuable of life lessons. I suspect it will save me alot of pain in the future.
Hi Tina, I was just surfing blogs and yours moved me. I too am in my early forties and came out of a relationship with an AC around two years ago when I realised it didn’t matter whether I was there or not, and after much emotional financial trauma. I never ever ever set boundaries, he created that in me and I now know he created that in the other women he’d been with and I believe is with since…the skills he used and uses are legendary and not for the faint hearted. I was embarassed and ashamed that I fell for them. I ‘m dating again but am cautious, cautiously optimistic mostly in my own self esteem these days. I called a guy out last night for the way he was been disrespectful of my plans,only thinking of his own…in my previous life this would not have happened. I believe he is surprised by this and the way he continues to act will determine whether he is a player/AC. What I ‘m saying is my boundaries are back,firmly and will never go again.. I wanted to say good luck with yours. Lesleyx